Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hd

September 06, 2007 - September 23, 2007



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Subject: Almost there
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Hi guys What I have left to do is the cowling, a few electric issues, reattach canopy and then the wings, so I am almost ready to fly, but my insurance co wants me to build time (3 hrs) in the exact make/model of aircarft. I asked obout a early model Zodiac and they said no. Any idea where's the closest 601XL that I can get training in VA, NC, MD? thanks glenn -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133100#133100 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Grant Corriveau <grant.corriveau(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
Date: Sep 06, 2007
My 601HDS stalls at about 58 to 60 mph. I think that's pretty close to the book. Assuming an aircraft close to the authorized Max. weight of 1200 (or 1300) lbs. Two things I'd suggest you check - 1. ASI - is this an accurate reading? Have you confirmed your ASI readings at slow speeds -i.e. with GPS or ground reference tests? 2. Aileron 'droop' ? There is little guidance in the construction manual regarding the alignment of the ailerons with the rest of the wing. I originally installed mine to align with the wing root fairing and to have a fairly 'flat' continuation of the wing at the tip. But my cruising nose attitude was uncomfortably nose high. So I tweaked both ailerons down a couple of degrees (i.e. extended the screw jack - but ensuring there are at least the required amount of threads in each endbolt). Now they form a continued curving of the wing when viewed from the tip, and misalign slightly with the fairings (which I will eventually try to fix). But the aircraft attitude in cruise is much better for forward vis, and as I say, the stall speed is about where it should be. Previous discussions about this issue have mentioned that flying with this greater wing curvature gives slightly reduced airspeed, but for me it seems like a better tradeoff. Grant GHTF 601hdsCAM100 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Static Ports
For those who were asking about the positioning of static ports, I went flying today and took some photos. These photos show how AMD does it on their manufactured version of the 601. Also, on the Angle of Attack indicator option for the Dynon, I shot a short movie showing how mine twitches. I need to strongly emphasize that overall I love the Dynon and feel that is a great product. It performs well at an excellent price. But, take a look at the twitching AoA indicator and tell me if that's how it ought to be. I'd be happy to hear all theories. Gig, Dynon has supplied replacement parts including a new pitot. I'm due for a factory annual next month, so we'll hit it again. Oh yes, someone asked about software versions.. I am one version behind. It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore! See the pictures and movie at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com -- Frank Derfler -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Static Ports
Date: Sep 06, 2007
> It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore! Have you tried a USB-to-serial adapter to give your newish laptop a serial port? Any CompUSA (or maybe Radio Shack) should have one. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Re: 701 Kit Info
Date: Sep 06, 2007
I am kit building the 701 and my fuselage, wings, flaperons, and slats were CNC punched by Zenith. I purchased the tail kit about a year earlier so don't remember if those skins were punched. Everything has fit together perfectly. Anytime something did not seem to be lining up, it was my fault. With all the trail fitting you do while building there is a lot of opportunity to mess up as well as catch your errors. I think that having the punched skins has made the end results much nicer than if you had to mark and drill all the holes yourself. I have found that the pre-punched holes made it very easy to get it together right the first time! George N73EX (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: EA-81 Stratus Question -- Replacinig PSRU Bearings
Date: Sep 06, 2007
contact Ron at RAM info(at)ramengines.com he can tell anything you want to know... Joe N101HD 601XL RAM 130 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: EA-81 Stratus Question -- Replacinig PSRU Bearings > > And I'll ask on the Stratus list, too, but when I go there, I hear > crickets. > > I need to replace my PSRU bearings -- these are the two 6207-2RS bearings > in the large hub. To get to them, I think I need to pull the spindle, by > loosening the jam nut on the back of the PSRU. Now, the jam nut is a > spanner type, with four rectangular notches, cut into the perimeter of the > nut at 90 degree increments. > > Where do I find a wrench that will handle this? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132587#132587 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [CH601XL] Re: Jim Pellien lost in 601XL crash
From: "tpellien" <tammy2shoe(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
I am not sure if anyone will read my reply so late after the last entry. But I thought you all should here from someone who flew with Jim and knew him personally. For anyone who would doubt his ability to check the tanks before flight, you should know that he dutifully checked every aspect of his plane before flight. His family and friends are all aware that he was steadfast on the pre-flight checks. He would constantly check fuel level as well as water in the tank. If Jim did not check the tanks and the tanks really were empty, you should know that the flight time before crashing would not have been enough for him to even get to the nearest airport with gas service. Perhaps that would be an issue for the man in Jim's employ who last flew the plane. What I believe to be true is that Jim checked his plane as he normally did, knew he had enough fuel and took off for a leisurly flight. Something happened mid-air that caused a loss of fuel and he crashed. Jim's family and friends have and will always stand behind the man they knew him to be. For anyone to suppose to know what he may or may not have done on that day is absurd and insulting to his life and his family. If you want to learn a lesson here is my recommendation, 1. Never leave someone elses plane with not enough fuel to get to an airport that offers gas service. 2. Find out how an engine, any engine car or plane can leave as little as 2 ounces and be running 1 minute prior to crashing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133187#133187 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim Pellien lost/ plus 2 others
From: "tpellien" <tammy2shoe(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
I am not sure if anyone will read my reply so late after the last entry. But I thought you all should here from someone who flew with Jim and knew him personally. For anyone who would doubt his ability to check the tanks before flight, you should know that he dutifully checked every aspect of his plane before flight. His family and friends are all aware that he was steadfast on the pre-flight checks. He would constantly check fuel level as well as water in the tank. If Jim did not check the tanks and the tanks really were empty, you should know that the flight time before crashing would not have been enough for him to even get to the nearest airport with gas service. Perhaps that would be an issue for the man in Jim's employ who last flew the plane. What I believe to be true is that Jim checked his plane as he normally did, knew he had enough fuel and took off for a leisurly flight. Something happened mid-air that caused a loss of fuel and he crashed. Jim's family and friends have and will always stand behind the man they knew him to be. For anyone to suppose to know what he may or may not have done on that day is absurd and insulting to his life and his family. If you want to learn a lesson here is my recommendation, 1. Never leave someone elses plane with not enough fuel to get to an airport that offers gas service. 2. Find out how an engine, any engine car or plane can leave as little as 2 ounces and be running 1 minute prior to crashing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133188#133188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Results of 601xl structure testing by ZAC??
From: "eddies" <eddie.seve(at)clarity.com>
Date: Sep 06, 2007
Hi Mark, I followed the link you posted. The new load tests that are pictured, only seem to show testing taking place for the negative ultimate limit load of the aircraft, there do not seem to be any recent photo's showing a re-test of the positive ultimate limit loads. The older photo's checking the positive limit loads on the painted aircraft are dated 2005. Regards, Eddie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133207#133207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2007
From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Static Ports
Frank: > "It's tough finding a laptop with a serial port anymore!" Craig: >"Have you tried a USB-to-serial adapter to give your newish laptop a serial port? Any CompUSA (or maybe Radio Shack) should have one." Craig, thanks for the suggestion. AMD provided the USB/Serial adapter and brought it out as a USB plug in the panel right under the Dynon. (You can just make it out in the movie on my blog) That's a good idea for any builder using any glass panel system. My rub is in getting the Dynon update software, very nice but monolithic and not flexible, to recognize the USB-serial driver as a valid port. Been through two "kits" (both Chinese manf: "sun flower moon" etc.) with various revisions of their USB-serial drivers. After much research I believe I would have to change the laptop OS to Windows XP and that would be a hassle! Then, there were USB cable connector issues I have not bothered to master. I let the folks at AMD, who do it a several times a month, update me. If you get the OS and drivers right and the serial cable right, then updating from the laptop's USB port to the Dynon's serial port is a piece of cake. A hands-off no-brainer. Do it once (keep the same laptop and cable) and you'll always be able to do it. But, the first time can be a challenge. -- Frank Derfler -- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com - Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM -Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com -For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Static ports
>Terry, A back-up for the AOA really? While nice it is hardly even >bordering on critical. Well, Gig, I never suggested that it was critical. And, you're right--it's not. But, I've already got the gage, I think I have the space on the panel, so, I think I'll do it, just because it is nice. I also plan to put in an analog altimeter and air speed indicator, even though the Dynon or GRT EFIS provide the same data. If I was a very experienced pilot, or even a really good "natural" pilot, I probably wouldn't bother. But I'm planning on getting from ~160 hrs to a life time of flying in my little 601, and I'll be more comfortable seeing those familiar analog gages on the panel. And, I know they'll still be working if the electronics die for whatever reason. If I had infinite funds, I'd probably put in a duplicate EFIS with some sort of backup power supply. But, for me, I think the analog gages will provide an adequate, and affordable, comfort factor. It makes sense to me. I trust you'll put in whatever makes sense to you. >DAVE and TERRY: I have the Dynon AoA and I'm sorry I paid the money for >it. (This in a 601XL) I've replaced everything from the pitot on in >while trying to get it to work effectively. It's been calibrated by >experienced test pilots a number of times. It jumps, it twitters, it >bounces around. Any "reading" you extrapolate is by eyeball averaging the >jumping around over a range. And at that point in the flight you have >better uses for your eyeballs! Even an experienced Navy carrier pilot >laughed at trying to use it to maintain a constant angle of attack. For >me, it's useless. From my experience, I wish I'd have spent the money >elsewhere (specifically on a backup AI of some sort.) >That said, I plan to go flying on Thursday. I'll take pictures of the >static ports and post them. >-- >Frank Derfler Frank Thank you for the input on the Dynon AOA. I would love to hear if others have had a problem with the Dynon AOA as you describe. I may decide to scrap the AOA pitot and just go with the more conventional LRI gage. Regarding your perceived need for a backup AI, is that because you are not satisfied with the Dynon AI, or just your desire to have a backup? I am looking at the TruTrak ADI autopilot, which had a combination AI-turn coordinator display. For a bit more than a simple autopilot, it would provide a backup AI. Is anyone out there using the ADI Pilot I or II? How has it performed? >Dynon had a software update several years ago to eliminate the problem of >erratic angle-of-attack readings. >The location of the pitot also plays a major role in the proper indications. Ken Have you installed the Dynon in your aircraft and/or are you aware of other's who have applied Dynon's fix? How has the AOA performed after the fix? If the location of the pitot is critical, is there guidance available about where to install it on a 601XL? Unfortunately, the location is not something that can easily be changed after the initial installation, and a series of trial and error installations would make a mess of a wing. There is a school of thought that suggests that AOA or LRI is not necessary for "real" pilots. And then there are those of us who would like to have more info if it would make us safer. I would really like to have that info, but I would not want to go with the Dynon AOA if it does not provide useful information. Terry Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701-460 empty weigt
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Hi;I'm new in this forum and need help with some info.I want to scratch built the 701 but the original 460 empty weight.The reason is to power it with the 582.I have been away from aviation for 14years,recently I ordered the info from zenith and noticed the increase in weight.What hapened ? Any structural problems? Or just a response to market pressure ?.Anybody knows about the ulm version?. I weight 126 and at 42 I don't think I gona get any heavier .I made all questions via e-mail to factory but so far no responce (4 days). Will like to hear from old model builders thx. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133289#133289 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2007
From: John Davis <johnd@data-tech.com>
Subject: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes
Hi All, I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard yet so I thought I would ask here. I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree one so the brake line will route better. Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ? Thanks, John Davis Burnsville, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Zodiac 601HD listed on Barnstormers
From: "rickpitcher" <zodie(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
On our way home from Las Vegas a few weeks ago, the wife was looking out the window of our Zodiac and said "Maybe our next airplane should be a high wing." So now that the wife insists on a new airplane , I've decided to list our Zodiac HD on Barnstormers and build/buy something new. Oh the things I have to do to please that woman ;) http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_193813_2003+Zenith+Zodiac+HD.html Rick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133300#133300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 701-460 empty weigt
Date: Sep 07, 2007
There is about 24 changes in the 701SP version over the older 960 gross version. However I am converting a older 701 (serial 1400 something) now and I can tell you that I have found several hundred changes from the old plane to the new one. Parts added and almost all parts changed in thickness. I would personally order a new kit and register it at 960 gross with the 582. The 701SP version will fly just as nice on the 582 as the older version. Plus with all the advances in the kit it will be a whole lot easier to build. Personally I would never convert an older 701 to a 701SP version again. I believe it would be faster to make a new one then to re-build an older version. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of river1 Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 701-460 empty weigt Hi;I'm new in this forum and need help with some info.I want to scratch built the 701 but the original 460 empty weight.The reason is to power it with the 582.I have been away from aviation for 14years,recently I ordered the info from zenith and noticed the increase in weight.What hapened ? Any structural problems? Or just a response to market pressure ?.Anybody knows about the ulm version?. I weight 126 and at 42 I don't think I gona get any heavier .I made all questions via e-mail to factory but so far no responce (4 days). Will like to hear from old model builders thx. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133289#133289 3:18 PM 3:18 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601 HDS stall spead
From: "jackandval" <jackry(at)alltel.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Sounds like the static port hose is loose or broken. This will cause a increase in airspeed indication. Seen it happen more then once. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133315#133315 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701-460 empty weigt
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Thanks for the Answer mark , but the question is , what was wrong with the original?. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133316#133316 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Rear wing skins
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Hello Group ,I have just finished drilling my top rear wing skin .The top skin specifies 102mm to #RR1 ,the bottom skin does not specify this distance .I would assume it is also 102mm to #RR1 . Could someone check the factory supplied skins and determine if this is correct .I am using plans Dated 03/06 page 6-W-8 . Thanks Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Rear wing skins
Wade, Both ends of both the top and bottom skins will be trimmed. Refer to the tables on 6-W-9. You can see that, on either rear skin, there is no wing root trim coordinate greater than 80mm. And since both rear skins are the same length, uncut, I think it is safe to assume the 102mm from RR#1 for both. I have no idea why 102mm, not 100 or 105, except that 102 is very close to 4". Jay in Dallas "wade jones" wrote: >Hello Group ,I have just finished drilling my top rear wing skin .The top skin specifies 102mm to #RR1 ,the bottom skin does not specify this distance .I would assume it is also 102mm to #RR1 . Could someone check the factory supplied skins and determine if this is correct .I am using plans Dated 03/06 page 6-W-8 . Thanks >Wade Jones South Texas >601XL plans building >Cont. 0200 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: 701-460 empty weigt
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Nothing wrong for it's day , it just grew up that's all Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of river1 Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701-460 empty weigt Thanks for the Answer mark , but the question is , what was wrong with the original?. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133316#133316 3:18 PM 3:18 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701-460 empty weigt
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Mark; I had to get off line to recharge batt, my intention is to scratch build a 701,not modify a existing one .My aim is to build the lightest one possible and if the changes have nothing to do with structural problems over the years then I will look for the original. Any info on the ULM? THX. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133336#133336 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LHusky(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 07, 2007
Subject: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel?
I figure that their testing was with AV Gas only and for liability reasons, they are putting AV Gas Only on the product. Larry Husky 601XL / Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static ports
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 07, 2007
I purchased the Dynon AOA and called them and zenith to get further clarification of the location of the Pitot. Dynon said to keep it out of the boundary layer of air around the wing surface. I think their document said something like 6" away from wing surface. Caleb and I figured the boundry layer wouldn't get much beyond 4" at VNE on the XL. The design distance of the CH pitot has the stand off at 2.5 for the static tube and 3.5 for the pitot. I just measured the Dynon AOA on the wing I am building and I have it set 5.75" from the wing surface to the center of the pitot hole. That should keep it out in the undisturbed airflow. The rest of the position is just like the print 150mm back from the wing spar rivet line, and just outboard of RR#5. Planning to mount the two static ports just like Mark Townsend said. It works for him it will probably work for me also [Laughing] -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133361#133361 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 evolution
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Can someone provide info on the evolution of the 701 . Mark Townsend mentions the sp model , I thought that there was only one kind . I remember that back then all printed info came from zenair and zenith was a year or two old, there was no web site. Any early 701 builders that want to share their expirience , or people flying early model please do so thx. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133370#133370 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Subject: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel?
From: Jeffrey A Beachy <beachyjeff(at)juno.com>
ACS sells replacement gaskets intended for use with auto fuel. Replacement gasket for auto fuel is p/n 06-00441. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: john butterfield <jdbutterfield(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: wing top skins
hi list: i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards john butterfield 601xl, corvair torrance, ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Another panel lights up .... Jeff Davidson
Date: Sep 08, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Valve Covers
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Corvair People- Getting ready to paint my engine parts. Valve covers are servicable, but badly pitted. Is there any filler (Bondo, spot putty or fiberglass) you can use to fill the craters that will stay in place in a moderate heat area? I'm already over budget. On the one hand, don't want to shell out another $200 for a set of machined aluminum covers, but on the other hand can't see ugly covers on an otherwise clean engine. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel?
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Thanks Guys............ I love this list. Ok. Noboby came up with anything substantial in 24 hours so its going in. I think its some kind of needless disclaimer. Thanks again....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133400#133400 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Bertrand" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
Subject: Re: More on the backfire
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Hi George. As you probably have found, letting the engine cool-down before shutdown eliminates backfiring on shutdown. On amphibs I need lots of power to taxi out of the river and up to my hangar. The EGT when I park is around 1350 and shutting down immediately will cause backfires. I reduce to 2000 till the EGT stabilizes then throttle to idle until EGT is close to 1150. I then close one ignition to further reduce RPM before closing the second ignition. If you don't have EGT gauges, idle for one to two minutes after using high power before shutdown. Carl ----- Original Message ---- From: george.mueller(at)aurora.org To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Zenith-List: More on the backfire Just to clarify my previous message about backfiring on shut down, I was not turning the ignition off during the full power run up, but would get a backfire after doing a full power run up, backing the throttle back down to 1800 rpm, letting it run at 1800 rpm for about 15 seconds, and then shutting the engine off. The rpms would wind down after the key was turned to off, followed by a "bang" at the very end, then silence, except for the snickering coming from nearby hangers. I am doing the full power run ups to check the pitch on my prop. I found it very interesting, however, that the NASCAR folks check plugs by doing a shut down at full throttle. I will also let the engine idle longer before shutting down. George in Milwaukee 701 912UL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: wing top skins
Date: Sep 08, 2007
John, I have used the principle of not riveting anything until I have to after having to open up the top skins on the center HD wing section after they were fully riveted. I appreciate that I learned a new skill to remove rivets without causing damage, but it did not help me move along on the project. I am currently mounting my HD wings with the nose skin only clecoed on the top side. I have Leading Edge tanks that will need attention after the wings are on. The rear Z is also clecoed where the aileron attaches. With enough clecos my opinion is that the top skin can be held in place just fine for your purpose. The assumption here is that the bottom skin is riveted. Others may worry that there may be some movement, but that probably is not critical until you make the final adjustments to the wing attachments. Jeff Davidson i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: Static Ports
We installed a used (I think Beechcraft) combination pitot and static port on the underside of the port wing about half way to the tip. It has always read perfectly, as checked out from sensitive altimeter readings and Becker mode C. I like the fact that it is well outside the propeller arc. It was not difficult to install it into the wing after it was rivetted shut. We keep it covered when not in use with a cover which includes a red streamer "Remove Before Flight". Our hangar mate had a difficult time with 3 static ports on the fuselage sides of his (identical) 601HD before he got something that worked. John M. Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Toronto/Waterloo. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes
Date: Sep 08, 2007
I see no reason why the shape of the fitting would be a problem John. If a right angle fitting works better for you, it should be okay. I made choices for similar reasons at the master cylinders and the parking brake valve myself. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: John Davis To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes Hi All, I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard yet so I thought I would ask here. I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree one so the brake line will route better. Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ? Thanks, John Davis Burnsville, NC -- 9/8/2007 1:24 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WHC228(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Subject: Re: Valve Covers
Bill I do not have any experience with plastic fillers. My only experience with fillers is with solder. That was forty or fifty years ago. I did buy a O235 Lycoming. I figured that I would have about the same amount of money in this engine that I would have spent to make a Corvair into an aircraft engine. I do like Lycoming engines. They may not be bulletproof, but they are strong. They have a 2400 hour TBO. There are also plenty of aircraft mechanics that know all about them. I suppose that if I had never run into the crack in the crank, I would have kept on going with the Corvair. I don't know if my valve covers are any better than the ones that you have, but if they are, I would be willing to swap them with you. I'll look them over next time I go there. I have been stalled for a while. I cross threaded the filler neck on my gas tank, and am waiting for Zenith to send me the tap to chase the thread in that tank. I will not rivet the leading edge of that wing until I have cleared up that problem. Once I have that done, I will be able to finish the wing and get it off my work table so that I can start the fuselage. I have another week of intense work here in my business, before I can get back to the airplane in any case. Let me know if you want me to look at those covers. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Valve Covers
Date: Sep 08, 2007
Bill- Sure, I'll look at the covers. Lynn warned me to warn you about the damn fillers. I believe I did, but, not being an XL builder, probably wasn't forceful enough. I haven't touched my airframe in over 2 months- all engine work. Want to get as much done as possible on the engine before winter. It's in the main (Unheated) garage rather than in my (Heated) build area. I have to do a batch of running around in about 2-3 weeks. We'll schedule something then. Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: WHC228(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Bill I do not have any experience with plastic fillers. My only experience with fillers is with solder. That was forty or fifty years ago. I did buy a O235 Lycoming. I figured that I would have about the same amount of money in this engine that I would have spent to make a Corvair into an aircraft engine. I do like Lycoming engines. They may not be bulletproof, but they are strong. They have a 2400 hour TBO. There are also plenty of aircraft mechanics that know all about them. I suppose that if I had never run into the crack in the crank, I would have kept on going with the Corvair. I don't know if my valve covers are any better than the ones that you have, but if they are, I would be willing to swap them with you. I'll look them over next time I go there. I have been stalled for a while. I cross threaded the filler neck on my gas tank, and am waiting for Zenith to send me the tap to chase the thread in that tank. I will not rivet the leading edge of that wing until I have cleared up that problem. Once I have that done, I will be able to finish the wing and get it off my work table so that I can start the fuselage. I have another week of intense work here in my business, before I can get back to the airplane in any case. Let me know if you want me to look at those covers. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new a_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums!
Dear Listers, Today 9/8/2007 I have added a new real-time spell checker function to all of the BBS Forums at Matronics. When you reply or create a new message on the Forums, you will notice that misspelled words will be high-lighted in yellow. If you left-click on the word, you will be prompted with a drop-down list of suggested spellings. http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy! Matt Dralle Matornics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes
Hi John, The instructions that came with my Grove brakes says you can swap the fittings. Of course you will want the bleed fitting on the bottom and the pressure fitting on the top. Any other configuration and you will have problems bleeding air from the system. I think you can get the Grove instructions online at their web site. What you can't get (at least I couldn't) is any response to an email inquiry. Paul XL fuselage At 02:07 PM 9/7/2007, you wrote: > >Hi All, >I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard >yet so I thought I would ask here. > >I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are >installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree >one so the brake line will route better. > >Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ? > >Thanks, >John Davis >Burnsville, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: wing top skins
John, you could consider throwing just a few rivets into the top skin which will stabilize it. You can use hardware store rivets for cost and ease of removal. Save your clecos for the fuse. Terry Turnquist hi list: i hope to move my machine to a hanger soon for final assembly. i was wondering if it would be a disadvantage to leave the top skins clecoed on until all adjustments were complete and the wiring, fuel lines, control rigging and everything else is complete and ready to close up. the only worry i have is hanging the wings on and not having enough strength due to the fact that the top skin is not riveted in place, or that there will be extra sag due to the same reason. it seems that the final assembly would be much easier with access to the interior wing. still am waiting to see if any changes are recommended to beef up the wing before i close them up regards john butterfield 601xl, corvair torrance, ca --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: gbrac80(at)aol.com
Paul, Did you mean to put the pressure fitting on the bottom and the bleed fitting on top?? Air here in the Northern Hemisphere tends to bubble to the top of brake fluid.? How does it behave where you are? Rgds, Mike. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET> Sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 5:08 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes ? Hi John,? ? The instructions that came with my Grove brakes says you can swap the fittings. Of course you will want the bleed fitting on the bottom and the pressure fitting on the top. Any other configuration and you will have problems bleeding air from the system.? ? I think you can get the Grove instructions online at their web site. What you can't get (at least I couldn't) is any response to an email inquiry.? ? Paul? XL fuselage? ? At 02:07 PM 9/7/2007, you wrote:? >? >Hi All,? >I've sent an email to grove asking this question but havent heard >yet so I thought I would ask here.? >? >I've got a 601XL QB kit and the way the brake mechanisms are >installed I would like to swap the Bleed fitting with the 90 degree >one so the brake line will route better.? >? >Anyone see any problem with swapping those fittings ?? >? >Thanks,? >John Davis? >Burnsville, NC? ? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Swapping fittings on Grove Brakes
Hi Mike, I admit it may not be intuitive, but the bleed fitting goes at the lowest point. The best way to fill the brake system is to pump the fluid in from the bottom to the top. While the fluid fills the various tubes and compartments the air is forced upward to the reservoir. Who woulda guessed ? Paul XL fuselage At 04:36 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote: >Paul, >Did you mean to put the pressure fitting on the bottom and the bleed >fitting on top? Air here in the Northern Hemisphere tends to bubble >to the top of brake fluid. How does it behave where you are? >Rgds, >Mike. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel?
Date: Sep 08, 2007
No, I think there is more to it. They wouldn't say it just for the hell of it, there is a reason. I bought the right gasket. Call AS and ask them, I did, just don't remember the exact details. It is something to do with auto gas being unleaded. I just don't remember the details. But, it better to err on the safe side, especially for a couple of bucks. It's only your life you are messing with. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Use of Gascolator with auto fuel? > > Thanks Guys............ I love this list. > Ok. Noboby came up with anything substantial in 24 hours so its going in. > I think its some kind of needless disclaimer. Thanks again....Geoff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133400#133400 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Static Ports
Need a serial port on a laptop? I use a USB to Serial adapter all the time at work. The telephone systems can be very picky about their connections but I've never had any problems with my adaptors. I'm at home now. If you can't find one with a web search, write me and I'll get a brand & part number for you from work. Dave Thompson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
I have made the mistake of purchasing a used kit that was partially built. This kit was originally purchased in 1999. After checking the provided iinstructions, I ordered the newest plans and now reference the pictorial drawings on the ZAC website. I can now see the differences in the 701 evolution. I can't tell you the 'why', but here's a list of 'what': 1. Modified wing root skin and added wing root angle (probably to reduce skin buckling issues) 2. Modification of nose wheel gear to add upper and lower nylon bearings. Bungee and bungee pin upgraded for heavier weights. 3. Modification of main gear. 'Old' style gear is similar to the 601 with wheel forks. New gear is mounted to the side of the spring. Skyjeep option includes heavy duty all-terrain tundra gear and wheels. 4. Extended baggage compartment added. 5. Modified door hinges. Original doors are forward hinged and required builder to fabricate hinges from 3/4" stock. New doors are hinged upwards. 6. Wing tanks added. Original kits had single fuel tank located under the instrument panel. 7. Formed windshield added. 8. 'SP' Sport Plane ready introduced 06/2001. 21 parts are either added or upgraded to larger thicknesses. Jury struts are greatly modified. Changes are made to the plans whereas some locations have more rivets. These changes are required for 1100 lb gross weight modification. 9. VERY IMPORTANT: Seat belt attachments increased in size from .040" thickness to .063" thickness. Also, ZAC added a central seat belt attachment doubler underneath the tunnel (although many builders feel this doubler is inadequate). 10. Stabilizer front brackets increased in thickness due to cracks found in some aircraft. These are just some changes I noted off the top of my head and is not all-inclusive. While some of these items were modified for increased versatility or convenience, some are safety related due to past experience. Either way, I would suggest going with the latest plans as they have evolved into a safe, versatile aircraft. That's just my two cents. :D Best Regards, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133583#133583 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Member
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
I have been reading this forum since I purchased my Zodiac 601xl kit in early July. The kit was used and the previous owner had completed the rudder and elevator before I purchased the kit. I have since completed both the elevators, both the flaps and the right wing. I began the left wing last week and it is coming along much faster since I cut many part for both wings at the same time. I only have about a million questions but the one bothering me right now is the FAA. They recommend I get an advisor from the EAA however the closest EAA chapter is about 150 miles from me. I live in Laredo, Tx. If you can assist me in finding someone I would be very grateful. Another question is in the same category. I spoke to an inspector about a month ago and wonder if there is a way to lock in a specific DAR. I talk to the inspector he says X. I am afraid that if I get a different inspector he will say Y and I will be screwed. I am taking extensive photos, maintaining the website at expercraft and keeping an extensive logbook. Since I don't have the EAA rep to signoff, I am totally confused. Any assistance would be apreaciated. Also, any e-mails just to say hi would be great Don 601xl slow build N601NV reserved Rans S-12 owner and flyer Laredo, Tx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133590#133590 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: New Member
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Don, If you are a member of EAA this is the best place to go for legal advice concerning the building of your aircraft. Call 888-322 4636, Flight Advisor & Technical Counselor and see what they can do for you. If you are not a member, Join by all means. All persons building an aircraft should be a member EAA Membership Services, 800-564-6322. Both of these calls are free. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:11 AM Subject: Zenith-List: New Member > > I have been reading this forum since I purchased my Zodiac 601xl kit in > early July. The kit was used and the previous owner had completed the > rudder and elevator before I purchased the kit. I have since completed > both the elevators, both the flaps and the right wing. I began the left > wing last week and it is coming along much faster since I cut many part > for both wings at the same time. > I only have about a million questions but the one bothering me right now > is the FAA. They recommend I get an advisor from the EAA however the > closest EAA chapter is about 150 miles from me. I live in Laredo, Tx. If > you can assist me in finding someone I would be very grateful. > Another question is in the same category. I spoke to an inspector about a > month ago and wonder if there is a way to lock in a specific DAR. I talk > to the inspector he says X. I am afraid that if I get a different > inspector he will say Y and I will be screwed. I am taking extensive > photos, maintaining the website at expercraft and keeping an extensive > logbook. Since I don't have the EAA rep to signoff, I am totally confused. > Any assistance would be apreaciated. Also, any e-mails just to say hi > would be great > Don > 601xl slow build > N601NV reserved > Rans S-12 owner and flyer > Laredo, Tx > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133590#133590 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Valve Covers
Bill, Call California Corvairs 951-284-3555. Their 2005 - 2007 price list shows a used valve cover at $12.00 each. I don't recall the owner's name right now but I have gone over there and purchased some stuff from him. He was a very nice guy and very interested in the Corvair flight engine movement. I'm sure that if you call him he'll pick out a good clean pair and send them to you for a very reasonable cost. Good Luck, Dave Thompson Westminster, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Valve Covers
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Dave- Thanks for the lead! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Valve Covers Bill, Call California Corvairs 951-284-3555. Their 2005 - 2007 price list shows a used valve cover at $12.00 each. I don't recall the owner's name right now but I have gone over there and purchased some stuff from him. He was a very nice guy and very interested in the Corvair flight engine movement. I'm sure that if you call him he'll pick out a good clean pair and send them to you for a very reasonable cost. Good Luck, Dave Thompson Westminster, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Dan; Thanks for the info, I am new to the list and I am spending some time reading back . I am posting the same questions that I sended to seb heintz on a e-mail a week ago but still waiting for the answer . Of all the items that you mention only the seat belts and the horz stab attach seem to be important. I started to build one in 94, fuselage and ribs when I had to stop for many reasons. It seems to me so far that most changes are in responce to market needs , of heavy pilots wanting biger engines , More range , speed. Still with the available knowledge, do you think it could be built safely? Thx. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133611#133611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: wing top skins
Terry Turnquist said: John, you could consider throwing just a few rivets into the top skin which will stabilize it. You can use hardware store rivets for cost and ease of removal. Save your clecos for the fuse. To me, that sounds like a great idea even though I'm not building. An added thought, if you use hardware store POP-Rivets, paint them red or something to be able to quickly identify them. That way you have less of a chance missing one that will need to be replaced before flight. Simply take a cardboard box, punch a bunch of holes in it and stick the rivets in the holes. Then just use a rattle can to spray paint them. A quality paint job is not the goal, just quick identification of the "wrong" rivets. Harbor Freight Tools have 1/8" X 1/4" pop rivets in a box of 500 for $2.99. Just my two cents worth. Dave Thompson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 701 Rear Rudder Skin
701 List, I'm at the point of drilling through the rear rudder skin into the ribs and I'm slightly apprehensive of doing so. The assembly manual states that the leading edge of the rear skin should be flush with the spar (Rev 1.6 pg 7). How many of you actually were able to do so without the tapered end of the bottom rib causing a bulge at the skins T.E.? Also did you guys align the forward skin to be flush with spar web or with the bend tangent along the length of the spar? Any advice before ruining the rudder would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Art 701 Rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Well, like I said, I'm giving you the 'whats' and not the 'whys'. I'm only seeing a part of the story, but hopefully Sebastian can fill in the blanks. I would say you're correct that most of the changes may be for market needs, but other things (i.e. nosewheel steering components) may have been upgraded to improve reliability. Simply put, I'm not sure. I see from other posts that you're interested in building a 701 as light as possible. May I ask why you're deciding not to upgrade your 701 to current SP standards? The only other consideration is lack of available parts. As I recall, another member on this forum is looking for a 582 mount, which I doubt ZAC still makes. Anyway, that may be another reason to stick with current designs. P.S. - Two more things to add on my previous list: modification to rudder control cables by adding a pulley near the main gear section (possibly for system reliability), and upgrade of the rear fuselage top channel (cracks found in other aircraft). Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133629#133629 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Friends - I'll soon have the opportunity to fly a Zodiac 601XL in a training situation, and as my own XL approaches completion I plan on becoming current in a 601XL prior to my own aircraft's first flight. My 601XL is configured with the Y stick, whereas the training 601XL is configured with dual sticks. Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...? Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...? I am a PPSEL, and will have about 200 hours in several aircraft by the time I make my first flight (Warrior, J3, CT, Evector, & 601XL). Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133634#133634 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Dan; My impresion is that company presidents are usually unavailable that's why I tried first over e-mail, tomorow I'll try the phone.I don't have one or the plans, but like to plans built the original spec 701.The reason, less weigt less power needed (582).The engine mount plans was included in the early plans and I can weld .In relation to the fuselage top chanel I received private e-mail for the reasons , flying at gross hard landings , vne and overall heavy engines. Thanks again Pedro. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133642#133642 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Patrick, I have flown both. We are all different, but it took just a few minutes to adjust to either one, Most of my 500 hours are with a Cessna yoke. I had flown a Piper Cub Special with a stick before, but not the Y stick. I found flying with either one a non issue. Jeff Davidson Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...? Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2007
From: Leo Gates <leo(at)zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
Patrick, I completely agree with Jeff. I have an HDS with a Y stick. I live in a flying community with a bunch of "old geezers" like myself. At first glance, ALL my neighbors were VERY skeptical of the stick. I made believers out of all of them by getting them in the seat, climbing to 400', crossing my arms and saying, "the plane is yours". Two minutes later the stick was a NON-ISSUE and the grin on their face was my reward. My 2 cents. Leo Gates N601Z Jeff wrote: > > Patrick, > I have flown both. We are all different, but it took just a few > minutes to adjust to either one, Most of my 500 hours are with a Cessna > yoke. I had flown a Piper Cub Special with a stick before, but not the Y > stick. I found flying with either one a non issue. > Jeff Davidson > > > > Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then > moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...? > > Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Colin Noseworthy" <rocclobster(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
Date: Sep 09, 2007
Hello Patrick, I have had the good fortune to fly both the Y stick and the dual sticks in the XL. While I prefer the dual sticks the Y stick is still very easy to use. The main issue with the Y stick for me came with trying to reconfigure the GPS or change freqs on the radio, not with controlling the aircraft. The XL that I am currently flying originally had the Y stick from first flight to about the 125 hour point. At first, I had a little difficulty holding altitude in a steep turn. I tended to always pull back on the stick as I went past 45 degrees. With only a couple flights practicing the maneuver my error was quickly overcome. Control during take off and landing with the Y stick was never a concern. Good luck. Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? > > Friends - I'll soon have the opportunity to fly a Zodiac 601XL in a > training situation, and as my own XL approaches completion I plan on > becoming current in a 601XL prior to my own aircraft's first flight. > > My 601XL is configured with the Y stick, whereas the training 601XL is > configured with dual sticks. > > Has anyone here done transition training on a dual stick 601XL and then > moved on to a 601XL with the Y stick...? > > Do any of you who have flown 601XL's see this as an issue...? > > I am a PPSEL, and will have about 200 hours in several aircraft by the > time I make my first flight (Warrior, J3, CT, Evector, & 601XL). > > Patrick > 601XL/Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133634#133634 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Clark <clarkjm(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
Date: Sep 09, 2007
-----Original Message----- From: Colin Noseworthy <rocclobster(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 20:49 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? Hello Patrick, I have had the good fortune to fly both the Y stick and the dual sticks in the XL. While I prefer the dual sticks the Y stick is still very easy to use. The main issue with the Y stick for me came with trying to reconfigure the GPS or change freqs on the radio, not with controlling the aircraft. The XL that I am currently flying originally had the Y stick from first flight to about the 125 hour point. At first, I had a little difficulty holding altitude in a steep turn. I tended to always pull back on the stick as I went past 45 degrees. With only a couple flights practicing the maneuver my error was quickly overcome. Control during take off and landing with the Y stick was never a concern. Good luck. Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:24 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...? [The entire original message is not included] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transition Training: Dual Sticks vs Y Stick a problem...?
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 09, 2007
You might want to find a quicksilver u/l and do about an hour in that. They don't have a y stick but do have one stick in the middle that the student holds below the instructor. This should give you an idea of how it will feel flying Y stick. I would highly recommend you find someone with a Y and the same model as yours. With the sensitivity of the elevator in the XL and the fact your going to be flying a new plane for the first time, you don't want this little problem in your mind. Get some Y time just to be on the safe side. OLD BOLD ETC. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133700#133700 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
In 1986 it flew with 52 hp, MAUW 880 lbs and was designed for engines 45 - 85 hp up to 130 lbs. 1990 - MAUW 960 lbs engines 50 - 100 hp / 130 lbs max. to serial 7-4511 July 2001, serials 7-4512 and later, MAUW 1100 lbs powerplant to 100 hp and installed weight 200 lbs max. I dont know the latest Europe lightweight version there was a little info on the Zenair europe site, seems you could leave off the SP options like the perspex screen, wing tanks and tundra wheels to get your weight lower, but honestly if you are using a low weight high output 2 stroke it will be fine - I admit the earlier airframe will probably balance better. I think its better to include the slightly heavier spars and structural brackets, even if you dont 'need' them. Perhaps dont paint the aircraft. I found the jabiru so light that even with a 26 AH battery in the engine bay I'm sitting on the aft CG limit with std wingtanks full. 912 needs the battery moved aft to compensate. Ralph / CH701SPJ / 2200A started dreaming 1993 started building 2004 -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133708#133708 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 evolution
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
I just got off the phone with zac (Roger) and he said that the weight increase with all the new revisions should be around 10# to 15# .That if I use the 582, header tank only ,old style windscreen and refrain from adding to much electronics and build to plan spec, I should be able to be at or below 500# .Thanks to all that ansered my post. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133735#133735 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing top skins
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
I am planning to rivet my skins on now then building up the other wing. I see no need to not rivet them. I may eat those words also, but that is the risk I take. All of the wiring and plumbing will be in and tested before closure and I will be able to check the wing one final time fixtured to the table before placing the final rivets. If there is any shape changing required I would rather do that on a known good surface (my build table). YMMV -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133744#133744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 Rear Rudder Skin
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Welcome to the world of fear. I am scratch building a 601 but the principles are the same. Take a look at mykitlog site around 1-29-2006, it might give you some ideas or how to proceed. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133747#133747 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plans wanted - CH200
Date: Sep 10, 2007
From: <HURLBUT.SJ(at)forces.gc.ca>
As part of a museum project I'm heading up the restoration of a 1970s vintage Zenith CH200. Would any body know where I can get a set of plans for this aircraft? Thanks in advance, Steve J. Hurlbut hurlbut.sj(at)forces.gc.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Plans wanted - CH100!!
Date: Sep 10, 2007
From: <HURLBUT.SJ(at)forces.gc.ca>
Actually the aircraft is the rarer CH100 single seat. Anybody know where I can get some more information on this aircraft including some plans. An internet search turned up very little. Only 2 references found about the airplane. Thank you Steve J. Hurlbut hurlbut.sj(at)forces.gc.ca > _____________________________________________ > From: Hurlbut Capt SJ@MP&EU@Greenwood > Sent: Monday, 10, September, 2007 12:24 PM > To: 'zenith-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: Plans wanted - CH200 > > As part of a museum project I'm heading up the restoration of a 1970s > vintage Zenith CH200. > > Would any body know where I can get a set of plans for this aircraft? > > Thanks in advance, > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing top skins
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Thanks Bryan, I did forget to mention the Tech Counselor has seen and written documentation about what he has seen. I actually called him last night and asked if he wanted to see it again before final closure, he said "no, button it up". -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133775#133775 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Plans wanted - CH100!!
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Hi, I think some body had a CH100 for sale in Georga, (USA) 5 or 6 months ago. it was advertised on Barnstormers. why notr do a search on the USA FAA Web site using the Key Words zenith and see how many you get. Maybe you will luck out and find some plans! Regards Woody ----- Original Message ----- From: <HURLBUT.SJ(at)forces.gc.ca> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Plans wanted - CH100!! Actually the aircraft is the rarer CH100 single seat. Anybody know where I can get some more information on this aircraft including some plans. An internet search turned up very little. Only 2 references found about the airplane. Thank you Steve J. Hurlbut hurlbut.sj(at)forces.gc.ca > _____________________________________________ > From: Hurlbut Capt SJ@MP&EU@Greenwood > Sent: Monday, 10, September, 2007 12:24 PM > To: 'zenith-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: Plans wanted - CH200 > > As part of a museum project I'm heading up the restoration of a 1970s > vintage Zenith CH200. > > Would any body know where I can get a set of plans for this aircraft? > > Thanks in advance, > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Plans wanted - CH200
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Try the Zenith 200-300 owners list on yahoogroups. I heard of someone selling his plans not that long ago Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HURLBUT.SJ(at)forces.gc.ca Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Plans wanted - CH200 As part of a museum project I'm heading up the restoration of a 1970s vintage Zenith CH200. Would any body know where I can get a set of plans for this aircraft? Thanks in advance, Steve J. Hurlbut hurlbut.sj(at)forces.gc.ca 9/10/2007 5:43 PM 9/10/2007 5:43 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Drilling Zodiac Nose Ribs
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
OK - quick question regarding mounting nose ribs to the spar on the Zodiac XL. When preparing them for pilot drilling/cleco per assy manual chapter 6W7A, pages 10 and 11, the instructions call for placing a .025 strip under the lower spar cap angle to simulate the lower rear skin and a .025 strip on top of the upper spar cap angle to simulate the upper rear skin. I'm clear so far. But at the top of page 11, it shows the upper strip in a different location which might make sense if 2 strips per top and 2 per bottom are used because the nose skin overlaps the upper rear skin (and the lower rear skin). This leads me to believe that to line up the nose rib properly, the overlapped skins should be simulated. I think that kind of makes sense. So, is it just a single strip to be clamped on the top and bottom, or is at actually 2 strips on both top and bottom? Someone that has been there a done that, please clue me in before I screw up my nose ribs. Or if this answer is simply too obvious, point me in the right direction. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133831#133831 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Chat
Remeber, everone, tonight is chat night. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Drilling Zodiac Nose Ribs
Doug, As you suggested, there is some confusion. I used two strips. One was fastened to the rear rib flange and stopped at the forward face of the spar flange, simulating the rear skin. The other one was clamped to the nose rib and overlapped the other strip, simulating the nose skin. I only used one strip on the bottom, because it is less critical and you can't easily stretch or shrink the rib to make both surfaces align perfectly anyway. I think just as important an alignment issue is the "squareness" of the rib flanges. I found that on mine (kit supplied) the rib flanges were not square with the web of the rib. When I clamped the flanges to the spar, it bowed the rib flange. I had to adjust nearly all the ribs flanges because of this. Jay in Dallas "dfmoeller" wrote: > >OK - quick question regarding mounting nose ribs to the spar on the Zodiac XL. > >When preparing them for pilot drilling/cleco per assy manual chapter 6W7A, pages 10 and 11, the instructions call for placing a .025 strip under the lower spar cap angle to simulate the lower rear skin and a .025 strip on top of the upper spar cap angle to simulate the upper rear skin. I'm clear so far. > >But at the top of page 11, it shows the upper strip in a different location which might make sense if 2 strips per top and 2 per bottom are used because the nose skin overlaps the upper rear skin (and the lower rear skin). This leads me to believe that to line up the nose rib properly, the overlapped skins should be simulated. I think that kind of makes sense. > >So, is it just a single strip to be clamped on the top and bottom, or is at actually 2 strips on both top and bottom? > >Someone that has been there a done that, please clue me in before I screw up my nose ribs. Or if this answer is simply too obvious, point me in the right direction. > >Doug > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133831#133831 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: 701 Builders Announcement: Wings Construction
Date: Sep 10, 2007
HomebuiltHELP is proud to announce the release of the next volume in the series of "Building your Zenith CH701" : WINGS Construction. This is a double volume DVD set with 5 hrs of building demonstrations for the 701 Wing kit. Details at: http://homebuilthelp.com/CH701Wings.htm Thanks for your support! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: chat
From: "Falcon" <crx(at)ubbdev.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Missed you guys again -- neighbor got a load of concrete, and we're all helping one another build driveways. The concrete calls. Here's what you missed: my redrive is in pieces, with some parts and the new bearings in the freezer. My better half mowed the whole yard while I was at work, and moved everything around in the shed so I could get to the 12 ton hydraulic press (has to do with Stratus parts in the freezer) Did I mentions she rocks? My better half, that is. Really looking forward to chatting next week. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133854#133854 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: 701 Builders Announcement: Wings Construction
Date: Sep 10, 2007
Jon: Just finished my forward fuselage and joined it to my rear. I've already built my wings but may just buy new ones from Zenith so I can do it right this time. I really appreciate your exceptional video presentations. I highly recommend them to anyone who has the slightest doubt about what to do after referring to the Zenith building literature. Stan N701VG (reserved) On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:47 PM, Jon Croke wrote: > HomebuiltHELP is proud to announce the release of the next volume > in the series of "Building your Zenith CH701" : WINGS Construction. > This is a double volume DVD set with 5 hrs of building > demonstrations for the 701 Wing kit. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: Kevin Kinney <kkinney(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Huh? Oh. Aw @#$%!
Thyne fyle Vyxen be a devyze phantasique for shaping of fybreglas and of scratching thyne bare back. Be thou ever myndful that only the basest fool should use it thus at the SAME TYME!! Scratchyng with a dyferent fyl now, Kevin Kinney -- Non-Parent - I don't see how you can raise children & stay sane. Parent - You don't. You pick one and go with it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)ciaccess.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Plans wanted - CH100!!
I have placed a file at the following web address that contains scans of all my old Zenair literature. It is mostly info sheets from zenair booths at old air shows. There is a bit of information on the ch100 as well as the other 200 and 300 series. 46 pages and around 6MB in size. <http://smtp.ciaccess.com/users/jpollard@ciaccess.com/files/>http://smtp.ciaccess.com/users/jpollard@ciaccess.com/files/ Jim Pollard Merlin Ont. At 01:59 PM 9/10/2007, you wrote: > >Actually the aircraft is the rarer CH100 single seat. Anybody know where >I can get some more information on this aircraft including some plans. >An internet search turned up very little. Only 2 references found about >the airplane. > >Thank you >Steve J. Hurlbut >hurlbut.sj(at)forces.gc.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com>
Subject: 601xl wing weight?
Date: Sep 11, 2007
I have a line on buying some wings that are already assembled but looking for weight per wing to get a shipping quote...........anyone got that info? Thanks David Mikesell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: More Nose Rib Riveting
Jeff I had a clearance problem with 4 rivets on my horizontal stabilizer. The diameter of the nose on my HF hydraulic-pneumatic riveter made it impossible to hold the riveter normal to the surface. I found that my hand riveter (also from HF) required less clearance and would work. So, I mailed the hand riveter A4 and A5 rivet heads off to Zenith to be machined and they were back in less than a week (great service there, ZAC!) The geometry of a hand riveter is a lot different from the pneumatic riveter, and may provide sufficient clearance for your situation. Terry Kafka, Jeff wrote: > > List, > > I am in the process of locating the 601 XL nose ribs on the rib > angles, and was pleased to receive the recent advice about using two > strips to simulate the skins before I completed **all** the ribs. > (Inboard four are done, but most of the outboard ones are left. I > expect minor flange adjustments will also help). > > A separate question: I am having difficulty getting my rivet puller > into position to pull the A5 rivets at the ends of the rib angle for > NR #5 (older plans; this is the first rib past the front spar caps). > The spar cap is in the way and will keep the puller from getting fully > horizontal. I fear the rivet will not be lying quite flat when the > time comes. > > Since I am plans building I spotted a similar issue for the inboard > ribs early and decided to rivet the ribs to those angles before > riveting the angles to the spar web (all the holes are done. I dont > have that option for this rib; (I doubt I could reliably replace the > solid rivets at the ends of the angle once the rib was in place). > > Any suggestions? > > ***Jeff Kafka* > > *601XL Plans* > > *Tail, Flaps, Ailerons, Spars Done* > > *Working on Ribs & Assembling Wings * > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 601xl wing weight?
75 lbs per wing with tanks and electronics Juan -----Original Message----- >From: David Mikesell <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com> >Sent: Sep 11, 2007 2:29 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl wing weight? > >I have a line on buying some wings that are already assembled but looking for weight per wing to get a shipping quote...........anyone got that info? > >Thanks >David Mikesell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601xl wing weight?
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 11, 2007
That sounds about right but LOTS AND LOTS of packing weight will need to be added. Probably to the point that the weight of the wings themselves probably won't matter much. amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: > 75 lbs per wing with tanks and electronics > > Juan > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133946#133946 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 601xl wing weight?
Now that we are in the weight department, does anyone know how much the 601XL airframe weight? no engine, no paint, no instruments etc. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida 75 lbs per wing with tanks and electronics Juan -----Original Message----- >From: David Mikesell >Sent: Sep 11, 2007 2:29 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl wing weight? > >I have a line on buying some wings that are already assembled but looking for weight per wing to get a shipping quote...........anyone got that info? > >Thanks >David Mikesell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Sisson" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Another Airport being closed
Date: Sep 11, 2007
The following came to me last night from Ray who lives in Hillsboro and has a Mustang II. This is a small grass field airport with about ten planes based there. Phil in Litchfield ................................. I am writing to ask you to help us keep the Hillsboro Airport (3K4) open. The city council has in the space of a few days announced that they agreed to negotiate the sale of the airport property to a coal company, and that they will take action on the sale at Tuesday's council meeting at 7:00 pm, all with no discussion with the Airport Board, the hangar renters/aircraft owners on the field, or the public. Please take a couple of minutes to go to this link to the local newspaper site and vote anonymously in their online poll..... http://www.thejournal-news.net/news/ scroll down near the bottom, left side of page. Please vote NO only once, but feel free to forward this to any other aviation fans you know. We may not be successful, but I would like them to HEAR US. Maybe we can lock up the website........ Thanks for your support. Ray Dorf, Hillsboro Airport Board member Sorry about the short notice, I just learned about the poll a short time ago. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Another Airport being closed
Even if it has already been done, it's never a bad idea to contact AOPA about this. We lost Blaine out here in Washington, but sometimes they win. Good luck! -John On 9/11/07, Phil Sisson wrote: > > > The following came to me last night from Ray who lives in Hillsboro and > has > a Mustang II. This is a small grass field airport with about ten planes > based there. Phil in Litchfield > > ................................. > > > I am writing to ask you to help us keep the Hillsboro Airport (3K4) open. > The city council has in the space of a few days announced that they agreed > to negotiate the sale of the airport property to a coal company, and that > they will take action on the sale at Tuesday's council meeting at 7:00 pm, > all with no discussion with the Airport Board, the hangar renters/aircraft > owners on the field, or the public. > > > Please take a couple of minutes to go to this link to the local newspaper > site and vote anonymously in their online poll..... > > > http://www.thejournal-news.net/news/ > > > scroll down near the bottom, left side of page. Please vote NO only once, > but feel free to forward this to any other aviation fans you know. We may > not be successful, but I would like them to HEAR US. Maybe we can lock up > the website........ > > > Thanks for your support. > > > Ray Dorf, Hillsboro Airport Board member > > > Sorry about the short notice, I just learned about the poll a short time > ago. > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Another Airport being closed
Submitted my vote! ~Shane On 9/11/07, John Marzulli wrote: > > Even if it has already been done, it's never a bad idea to contact AOPA > about this. We lost Blaine out here in Washington, but sometimes they win. > > Good luck! > > -John > > On 9/11/07, Phil Sisson wrote: > > > > sisson(at)consolidated.net> > > > > The following came to me last night from Ray who lives in Hillsboro and > > has > > a Mustang II. This is a small grass field airport with about ten planes > > based there. Phil in Litchfield > > > > ................................. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am writing to ask you to help us keep the Hillsboro Airport (3K4) > > open. > > The city council has in the space of a few days announced that they > > agreed > > to negotiate the sale of the airport property to a coal company, and > > that > > they will take action on the sale at Tuesday's council meeting at 7:00 > > pm, > > all with no discussion with the Airport Board, the hangar > > renters/aircraft > > owners on the field, or the public. > > > > > > > > Please take a couple of minutes to go to this link to the local > > newspaper > > site and vote anonymously in their online poll..... > > > > > > > > http://www.thejournal-news.net/news/ > > > > > > > > scroll down near the bottom, left side of page. Please vote NO only > > once, > > but feel free to forward this to any other aviation fans you know. We > > may > > not be successful, but I would like them to HEAR US. Maybe we can lock > > up > > the website........ > > > > > > > > Thanks for your support. > > > > > > > > Ray Dorf, Hillsboro Airport Board member > > > > > > > > Sorry about the short notice, I just learned about the poll a short time > > http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ > > > > "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot > > harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. > > -Airplane The Movie > > > > * > > > > * > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Airport being closed
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 11, 2007
Well if nothing else you will find out if your city council pays attention to polls conducted by the newspaper. The only problem is it will be very easy to show that the results are bogus because those of us that responded to your request voted. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133972#133972 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: More Nose Rib Riveting
Hi Jeff, I modified a rivet puller nose piece by grinding the face at about a 30 degree angle and then grinding the concave shape unique to CH's plans. I use this in a hand puller in the few places where a normal riveter won't even think about fitting. There are several more places where this came in handy besides the nose ribs. I only did this for A5 rivets and that seems to be enough. With the slanted nose piece, the rivet stem gets bent into the riveter while it is pulled, but it all works out fine. At least it does after a few practice rivets. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage At 10:55 AM 9/11/2007, you wrote: >List, > >I am in the process of locating the 601 XL nose ribs on the rib >angles, and was pleased to receive the recent advice about using two >strips to simulate the skins before I completed *all* the ribs. >(Inboard four are done, but most of the outboard ones are left. I >expect minor flange adjustments will also help). > >A separate question: I am having difficulty getting my rivet puller >into position to pull the A5 rivets at the ends of the rib angle for >NR #5 (older plans; this is the first rib past the front spar caps). >The spar cap is in the way and will keep the puller from getting >fully horizontal. I fear the rivet will not be lying quite flat when >the time comes. > >Since I am plans building I spotted a similar issue for the inboard >ribs early and decided to rivet the ribs to those angles before >riveting the angles to the spar web (all the holes are done. I don't >have that option for this rib; (I doubt I could reliably replace the >solid rivets at the ends of the angle once the rib was in place). > >Any suggestions? > >Jeff Kafka > >601XL Plans > >Tail, Flaps, Ailerons, Spars Done > >Working on Ribs & Assembling Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Huh? Oh. Aw @#$%!
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 11, 2007
Kevin, Not sure what the point was but you are right the vixen file can be tricky to use. An old timer told me to break the edge along the side of the file with a little light grinding and use wax to help it not plug up. The edge breaking helps prevent gouging a surface. A light touch is required if you are surfacing. Take a look here: http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log 545&row=266 -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134000#134000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: Huh? Oh. Aw @#$%!
Date: Sep 12, 2007
FDLMAO...Falling Down Laughing My A Off Seriously the fillers in the Epoxy are toxic... Have a dermatologist look at your back. Noel P.S. buy a back scratcher!... Or marry one ;-) > From: Kevin Kinney <kkinney(at)fuse.net> > Subject: Zenith-List: Huh? Oh. Aw @#$%! > > > > Thyne fyle Vyxen be a devyze phantasique for shaping of > fybreglas and of scratching > thyne bare back. > Be thou ever myndful that only the basest fool should use it > thus at the SAME TYME!! > > Scratchyng with a dyferent fyl now, > Kevin Kinney > > > -- > Non-Parent - I don't see how you can raise children & stay sane. > Parent - You don't. You pick one and go with it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 601xl wing weight?
250 without anything on, stripped no geers. On the gears, if you net from 750Lbs, wings at 75 lbs, engine at 180 lbs, canopy at 30 lbs, its around 400lbs. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Sep 11, 2007 3:46 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601xl wing weight? > >Now that we are in the weight department, does anyone know how much the 601XL airframe weight? no engine, no paint, no instruments etc. > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami, Florida > > >75 lbs per wing with tanks and electronics > >Juan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: David Mikesell >>Sent: Sep 11, 2007 2:29 PM >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl wing weight? >> >>I have a line on buying some wings that are already assembled but looking for weight per wing to get a shipping quote...........anyone got that info? >> >>Thanks >>David Mikesell > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2007
Subject: WW's #
Anyone out there got a # for WW? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: WW's #
Date: Sep 12, 2007
Try (904) 529-0006 ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:23 PM Subject: Zenith-List: WW's # Anyone out there got a # for WW? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2007
Subject: Re: WW's #
THX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Zenith Aircraft Co." <info(at)zenithair.com>
Subject: Zenith OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering: Sept. 29
Date: Sep 13, 2007
Following is a summary of the Zenith Open Hangar Day and Fly-In Gathering, as posted at http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007.html Zenith Aircraft Company's OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering Saturday, September 29, 2007, Mexico Memorial Airport, Mexico, Missouri Zenith Aircraft Company's 16th annual OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering is scheduled for Saturday, September 29, 2007, at the factory located at Mexico Memorial Airport in Mexico, Missouri. Aviation enthusiasts, especially builders and owners of Zenith Aircraft kit planes, are invited to drive or fly-in for the day. The Zenith Aircraft kit production facilities will be open for factory tours and Zenith's factory-demonstrator kit aircraft will be on display. Company staff will demonstrate kit production and fabrication techniques used in producing the all-metal kit aircraft parts made at the Zenith Aircraft factory. With the new fall Open Hangar / Fly-In Gathering schedule, Zenith has planned a series of hands-on informational workshops specifically for existing owners and builders, as well as new builders. Starting on Friday afternoon, some of the scheduled activities include: Jabiru engine workshop, presented by JabiruUSA 1:00 - 4:00 pm., Friday, September 28 Hosted by Pete Krotje, owner and director of Jabiru USA, this informative workshop will cover everything you've always wanted to know about operating and maintaining the popular Jabiru 3300 engine. Pete will also explain the engine installation using JabiruUSA's complete firewall-forward accessories package. Pete will also discuss maintenance and operation issues specific to the Jabiru engine. Group size is limited - prior registration is required. Scratch-building basics for Zenith Aircraft designs, by Mark Townsend 1:00 - 4:00 pm., Friday, September 28 If you've always been intrigued about building your own aircraft from just a set of blueprints and forming all the parts yourself, this hands-on workshop is for you! Hosted by Mark Townsend of Can-Zac Aviation (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covers the skills, materials, tools and commitment that is required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 or Zodiac XL, for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Since the workshop is held at the Zenith Aircraft factory, participants will also be able to compare scratch-building to kit building an aircraft. Group size is limited - prior registration is required. Note: Zenith will be holding one of its popular Rudder Workshops on Thursday and Friday, Sept. 27 and 28 (prior registration is required for the Rudder Workshop). Saturday, September 29, Events and Activities: The Zenith Aircraft factory will be open from 8:00 am - 3:00 pm for self-guided factory tours, demonstrations, and more, throughout the day. 10:00 am - Group Photo Group Photo in front of the Zenith Aircraft factory, including a line-up of all Zenith aircraft flown in for the fly-in gathering as well as the participants of the Open Hangar day. If you plan on flying in your Zenith, don't miss the Group Photo at 10:00 am! 11:00 am - Sport Pilot / Light Sport Aircraft, presented by Earl Downs. Zodiac builder and aviation writer Earl Downs will informally present "everything you've always wanted to know about the FAA's new Sport Pilot certificate." Earl Downs is a well-known aviation writer and publisher, and is one of the best resources available for Sport Pilot. Earl started flying more that 50 years ago and progressed to become an airline transport-rated pilot and served with the training department of a major airline for 23 years. He has logged thousands of hours flying and instructing in light airplanes and is a recognized aviation writer with EAA Sport Pilot and AOPA Flight Training magazines. In 2004 he co-wrote the popular book titled "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Sport Flying" and is the current publisher and owner of The Oklahoma Aviator. 1:00 pm - Registering your Homebuilt Aircraft, presented by Jon Croke. If you've viewed a how-to DVD from HomebuiltHelp.com, you're already familiar with Jon Croke, the producer of the popular series of instructional material on building your own Zenith airplane. Jon is a skilled presenter, and will walk you through each step required to successfully license your experimental amateur homebuilt aircraft with the FAA. This presentation promises to be both informative and entertaining. 2:00 pm - S.T.O.L. Flying, presented by Michael Heintz and Christopher Desmond Michael Heintz, eldest son of designer Chris Heintz and owner of Quality Sport Planes of northern California, has been flying the STOL CH 701 since the prototype first flew in 1986. Christopher Desmond has put over 500 hours of flying time in his personal STOL CH 701 over the last two years. Both have been working on producing DVDs featuring the STOL CH 701 in back-country applications. In recent years, they have demonstrated the exceptional short take-off and landing capabilities of the STOL at the Oshkosh, Sun'n Fun, Arlington and Copperstate fly-ins. Michael and Christopher will provide an informational 'how-to' seminar to builders and pilots during the Open Hangar Day and will share how they safely maximize the performance and utility of their Zenith STOL kitplanes. Activities and displays throughout the day (Saturday 8:00 am - 3:00 pm): Builder Assistance Centers / Quick-Build Kit Distributors: FlightCrafters / Zenith Distributing (Zephyrhills, Florida), Quality Sport Planes (northern California), and now Jerrich Aircraft Company (Dallas, Texas) offer professional builder assistance facilities, as well as Quick Build Kits for both the Zodiac XL and the STOL CH 701. Whether you're a builder who needs the workshop space and/or expertise to help finish an existing kit project, or whether you want to complete your project in just a few months, representatives will be on hand to discuss their services. Jabiru engines: Pete Krotje / Jabiru USA will be on hand to show you why the Jabiru 3300 engine is the powerplant of choice for most Zodiac XL builders, and he will be available to answer your engine installation, operation, and maintenance questions. HomebuiltHelp.com offers a complete line of "how-to" videos available on DVD, and will have the DVDs available for preview and purchase. Some of the popular titles include: Metalworking101 with Rudder Workshop, Rotax 912 Installation Tips & Techniques, Weight & Balance101 for Homebuilts, Electrical Wiring101 for your Homebuilt Aircraft, How to License your Homebuilt Aircraft, Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft, and more. HomebuiltHelp.com also offers a full series of DVDs on building the STOL CH 701 kit aircraft, and the all-new Zodiac XL Quick-build Tips & Techniques DVD. Can-Zac Aviation of Ontario, Canada, manufactures the full line of Zenair floats designed by Chris Heintz. Can-Zac Aviation is also the Canadian distributor for Zenith Aircraft kits and Quick-Build Kits. Customer Projects: Existing Zenith Aircraft builders and owners enjoy sharing information and details about building and flying their aircraft, and will be available to discuss construction, finishing (paint, upholstery, avionics, alternative engines, etc.) and flying their aircraft creations. Builders and pilots: Bring your photos to share with fellow builders, and let us know if you would like some indoor space for a display or presentation. Kit aircraft fabrication demonstrations in the Zenith factory: Cutting and pre-drilling kit parts on the CNC router, forming and hand finishing wing ribs and other kit parts, aircraft aluminum welding demonstrations. Factory demonstrator aircraft: The popular Zodiac XL, STOL CH 701 and STOL CH 801 factory demonstrator aircraft will be parked at the factory. Food and refreshments: Local EAA chapter 1225 will provide a complimentary hot lunch at noon on Saturday, September 29, sponsored by Zenith Aircraft Company. Zenith will also have complimentary coffee and donuts available in the morning. Note to builders: You can arrange to pick-up parts at the Open Hangar Day if the parts have been ordered, paid for and confirmed prior to the Open Hangar Day. Of course, owners of completed Zenith Aircraft are highly encouraged to fly-in for the activities and to show off their completed project to fellow builders (Zenith can provide tie-down space and help facilitate ground transportation if possible). Let us know of any special needs or requirements. If you are planning to attend, please pre-register for the Open Hangar Day and Fly-In Gathering. We'll plan to award some door prizes and we'll have name tags ready for you when you arrive, and will keep you up to date of any schedule changes. Online registration: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007-register.html There is no charge to attend the Open Hangar Day or related events. Please note that all events are subject to change or cancellation. Please contact us if you have ideas, requests or capabilities to make the fall 2007 Open Hangar and Fly-In Gathering both a fun and educational event. Thanks in advance to the individuals and companies that are contributing time and expertise to this event, and to the builders who have provided suggestions. Accommodations: Due to the large number of visitors to Mexico on September 29, local hotels have already filled up (we've heard that Mexico hotels are already booked for September 28 and 29). However, there are more hotels in the general area, as well as camping sites. Details on accommodations: http://www.zenithair.com/factory.htm Online: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 13, 2007
Welcome. Good group here. My wife & I attended a rudder workshop last November. In the year that's followed we've competed the tail, wings, and are assembling a Corvair engine (awaiting some parts to finish it). Fuselage kit is ordered - should keep me busy this winter. The hardest part is drilling the first hole. You will remember it. Take a picture. Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134241#134241 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: New Builders or thinking about it
Date: Sep 13, 2007
This message is for those of you who are thinking about building the Zenith Zodiac601XL. I have one completed and flying with 100 hours and I will take any of you flying for the cost of the fuel we use. Nothing I can think of will cause you to make up your mind and build one of these aircraft like going flying in one. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Builder
Thanks Patrick for your encouragement. I will also be using the Corvair engine in my plane. I just placed an order last night for William Wynne's conversion manual. I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain sometime in the future about your engine building experiences thus far with the Corvair conversion. Oh and believe me, I'll be buying a nicer digital camera than I already have to take those first drill hole pictures from every angle! Have fun with that fuselage kit! Hopefully by this time next year I'll be as far along on my project as you are at this point! Thanks Again, Shane On 9/13/07, PatrickW wrote: > > > Welcome. Good group here. > > My wife & I attended a rudder workshop last November. > > In the year that's followed we've competed the tail, wings, and are > assembling a Corvair engine (awaiting some parts to finish it). > > Fuselage kit is ordered - should keep me busy this winter. > > The hardest part is drilling the first hole. You will remember it. Take > a picture. > > Patrick > 601XL/Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134241#134241 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Builders or thinking about it
Wish I was a little closer to you to take you up on that offer. But if you ever fly out to Southern California (Camarillo/KCMA) for anything, let me know! -Shane On 9/13/07, robert stone wrote: > > This message is for those of you who are thinking about building the > Zenith Zodiac601XL. I have one completed and flying with 100 hours and I > will take any of you flying for the cost of the fuel we use. > Nothing I can think of will cause you to make up your mind and build one > of these aircraft like going flying in one. > > Tracy Stone > Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builder
From: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: Sep 13, 2007
A group of us gather to chat on Monday nights at 8:00 PM Eastern Time at: http://chat.iahu.ca/ New builders or old are encouraged to join in. Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134304#134304 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Danny Offill" <doffill(at)cableone.net>
Subject: New Builders or thinking about it
Date: Sep 13, 2007
Tracy I live north of McKinney, TX and will definitely take you up on your offer next time I'm planning a trip to the hill country. Send me you contact info off-line and I'll give you a call sometime if that's OK. Danny Offill Van Alstyne, TX ZodiacXL tail kit. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of robert stone Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:46 PM To: Zenith list Subject: Zenith-List: New Builders or thinking about it This message is for those of you who are thinking about building the Zenith Zodiac601XL. I have one completed and flying with 100 hours and I will take any of you flying for the cost of the fuel we use. Nothing I can think of will cause you to make up your mind and build one of these aircraft like going flying in one. Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fw: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601
From: charles.long(at)allisontransmission.com
Date: Sep 14, 2007
I've noticed some upper Rudder bushing wear on my 601 HDS after 130 hours of operation. I've replaced the bushing and reduced the end play somewhat. The bushing wear was about .003" in the fore - aft direction. The remainder of the wear was in the center hinge plate (aluminum). Is anyone else experiencing this find of wear. Have you made changes to address the issue? Thanks Chuck Long Zodie Rocket N601LE ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builders or thinking about it
Date: Sep 14, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
I applaud Tracy for his grand offer. I make the same offer. I'll be happy to let a builder come fly my XL. Only exception is that my expense requirements include a few adult beverages for the hanger refrigerator for post flight on site emergency human re-liquidification. Bill Phillips, Thomaston (OPN), Georgia, 601XL-3300 w/ DC? -----Original Message----- From: robert stone <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 2:45 pm Subject: Zenith-List: New Builders or thinking about it ???? This message is for those of you who are thinking about building the Zenith Zodiac601XL.? I have one completed and flying with 100 hours and I will take any of you flying for the cost of the fuel we use. Nothing I can think of will cause you to make up your mind and build one of these aircraft like going flying in one. ? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ch701 / Rotax 582 right side up
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Sep 14, 2007
Has anyone built, or know of somebody that has installed the Rotax 582 right side up in the 701?. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134445#134445 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2007
From: Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu>
Subject: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601
Hi Chuck, Initially, I also had wear of the rudder hinge. To eliminate this, I used brass tubing material to make bearings and expoxied them into the aluminum brackets. This has solved the problem. After 1,100 hours, there is not noticeable increase of play. Happy flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus(at)utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The Keeners" <kim.forest(at)surewest.net>
Subject: Elevator Center Channel
Date: Sep 14, 2007
Dear Fellow 601XL Builders: Anyone working on the elevator use caution. Maybe it will be obvious to you, but I missed it. Before drilling your rivet line in the bottom of the elevator (into the Elevator Center Channel/6T3-2), make sure you compensate for this part being 20mm closer to the front edge of the elevator. I miss drilled two holes that ended up 10mm aft and into the curve of 6T3-2. Luckily, I was able to order a new part without having to do anything major.... just another speed bump, I guess. ARRRGGHHH! Forest K., Rocklin, CA Rudder/Horizontal Stab complete Working on elevator/Wing Kit in garage... N601FK (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com>
Subject: pilot size for 701
Date: Sep 14, 2007
All the info I have been able to find on the web indicates i will fit in a 701 reasonably well. Any body have direct experience? (You my size?) 6 foot and 225lbs. Thanks, Robert Loer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: pilot size for 701
Date: Sep 14, 2007
Robert you will have room to spare. But for added comfort add the bubble doors. I am 5,10 and heavier then you and fit with lots of room to spare. Wife is heavier and we fit well inside the 701. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Loer Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: pilot size for 701 All the info I have been able to find on the web indicates i will fit in a 701 reasonably well. Any body have direct experience? (You my size?) 6 foot and 225lbs. Thanks, Robert Loer "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Zenith-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 9/14/2007 8:59 AM 9/14/2007 8:59 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Builders or thinking about it
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 14, 2007
That's all it took for me, one flight and on the way home from the airport I ordered the plans. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134506#134506 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2007
From: Robert Hansen <stol701(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pilot size for 701
I am real close to your size and I fit in the 701 with my wife ( she is 6'0 ) with no problem. At Oshkosh 2007. I wish there was a little more leg room but it feels good.=0A=0ARob Hansen=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom : Robert Loer =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Fr iday, September 14, 2007 5:56:20 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: pilot size for 701=0A=0A=0AAll the info I have been able to find on the web indicates i wi ll fit in a 701 reasonably well. Any body have direct experience? (You my s ize?)=0A=0A6 foot and 225lbs.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0ARobert Loer=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ -======================== =========================0A =0A=0A =0A___________________________________________________________ _________________________=0AMoody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - ahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 15, 2007
Thanks Chuck and Klaus We should have a folder set up somewhere to keep all this great info. As people are now up and flying, what things do we need to start keeping an eye out for , I guess a bit like service bulletins from builders.. How about it?? Klaus I have looked at your site, but have you done any other mods or investigation's lately? Chris.. :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134583#134583 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Corvair Engines
This question has probably been asked 1000 times, but does anyone have any good resources for acquiring a Corvair engine suitable for rebuild? Thanks! ~Shane Norwood ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair Engines
Date: Sep 15, 2007
Monitor the CorvairCraft list and you will find frequent notices of suitable cores available. http://www.krnet.org:80/corvaircraft_inst.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Norwood To: zenith-list Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Engines This question has probably been asked 1000 times, but does anyone have any good resources for acquiring a Corvair engine suitable for rebuild? Thanks! ~Shane Norwood ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair Engines
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 16, 2007
I just let the folks I work with and associate with know and two cores came my way within 6 months. Best part was they were free for the taking. All the extra HW was donated to the local CORSA gang once I had everything disassembled. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134649#134649 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair Engines
I contacted my local Corsa chapter and they put me in contact with a local aircraft/Corvair builder who in turn put me in contact with a guy who had several cores, I ended up buying one.In conclusion, check your local Corsa club first. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Shane Norwood wrote: This question has probably been asked 1000 times, but does anyone have any good resources for acquiring a Corvair engine suitable for rebuild? Thanks! ~Shane Norwood ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair Engines
I contacted my local Corsa chapter chapter and they put me in contact with a local aircraft/Corvair builder who in turn put me in contact with a guy who had several cores, I ended up buying one.In conclusion, check your local Corsa club first. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Shane Norwood wrote: This question has probably been asked 1000 times, but does anyone have any good resources for acquiring a Corvair engine suitable for rebuild? Thanks! ~Shane Norwood ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
Date: Sep 16, 2007
I just finished a two hour flight of my local area, landing at small airports that would have been difficult with my previous aircraft. Winds variable at 4 kts, Visibility 50 miles, Smooth air conditions. It was very satisfying when everything in my William Wynne Corvair powered 601XL was working perfectly. My last tweak was to eliminate a very small vibration above 3000 rpm. I did not experience any vibration today. A few strategically placed washers inside my spinner did the trick so I will attach them permanently. I am very happy with this machine. Now showing 55.3 hours Total Time Over the last year I have been chasing several small problems. So what did I learn if I was to do it again? For me I would have been much better off ordering an engine from William Wynne and not listen to the local experts. My initial ignorance added to my build time and overall cost. Virtually all of the initial work had to be redone. Thanks to William Wynne I ended up with a very good Corvair Conversion. The Heintz Family is a pleasure to do business with. Nice design, good follow-up and building support. I would not buy any used avionics. The ones I started with ended up weighing more, doing less, or costing more when I had to replace them plus the time to re-wire the replacement. Keep it light, simple, documented and organized. Now I plan on spending a lot more time in the air. Keep building. The end result is worth it. Gary Ray Hanger E10 , @ KPTK SE Michigan davgray(at)sbcglobal.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
Date: Sep 16, 2007
Glad to hear you are in the air and enjoying your plane. > A few strategically placed washers inside my spinner did the trick so I will attach them permanently. How did you decide where to place the washers? I'm assuming you didn't have access to dynamic balancing equipment. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
Date: Sep 17, 2007
The following is how I understand it. Either I got lucky or I have it right. On the inside of my spinner I found a witness mark that developed after the first 30 hours. The mark is a dark powdered area on the inner spinner near the bulkhead. This implies that some motion is occuring. This forms when the bulkhead is deviating away from the prop hub. I reasoned that the side 90 degrees after the mark must be heavy in order to cause the deflection. Gyroscopes react 90 degrees after the point where force is applied. Since the heavy side can not move into the prop hub there is no motion at that point. However the opposite side can experience a force away from the hub but the actual movement outward would occur 90 degrees later. As an example if you spin a bicycle tire in a forward rotation, then tip the top of the tire to the left, you will see that the front of the wheel also moves to the left (90 degrees later). In my case I reasoned that the action of the front of the wheel represents the point where I was seeing witness marks. So adding weight 90 degrees prior made sense. This line of reasoning was then confirmed on a static lawn mower balance. I added duct tape to the inside of the spinner with washers beneath as a trial and got an immediate improvement. The witness marks are an indication of dynamic balance problems so as time goes on I will watch for any return of these marks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight Glad to hear you are in the air and enjoying your plane. > A few strategically placed washers inside my spinner did the trick so I will attach them permanently. How did you decide where to place the washers? I'm assuming you didn't have access to dynamic balancing equipment. -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/15/07 7:54 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pilot size and 701
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima(at)hydro.mb.ca>
I am 6'4" 200 lb, and do not fit comfortably in the standard 701. The standard 701 has a flat roof that is much lower than the top of the wing surface, and a raised seat pan due to the flap control rods. I plan to continue the wing shape across the top of the cabin and drop the seat pan to the floor and give myself enough head room for some. In any case, if you are tall, please go sit in one. There may be other modifications necessary if you are very leggy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Koger Sun Shades
Date: Sep 17, 2007
Netheads Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: Pilot size and 701
Date: Sep 17, 2007
You might want to do some research, but I think the opening between the wings serves a purpose. It allows direct prop wash to the horizontal and elevator. If you raise the center up, with an airfoil, you will get a little more lift but it won't handle as good at low speeds. The tail already needs help, closing the center up might make it worse. At least that's what I think, for what's that's worth. My wife's son-in-law is 6'4" and 240. He doesn't have all the room he would like, but is comfortable enough. You might do a few things I did. Move the dash forward 2", foot petals same, thin seat foam, and don't wear a hat. Take care, Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bima, Martin" <mbima(at)hydro.mb.ca> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Pilot size and 701 > > > I am 6'4" 200 lb, and do not fit comfortably in the standard 701. The > standard 701 has a flat roof that is much lower than the top of the wing > surface, and a raised seat pan due to the flap control rods. I plan to > continue the wing shape across the top of the cabin and drop the seat > pan to the floor and give myself enough head room for some. > > In any case, if you are tall, please go sit in one. There may be other > modifications necessary if you are very leggy. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: completion for sale
Date: Sep 17, 2007
http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html This link doesn't work for me. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Koger Sun Shades
Date: Sep 17, 2007
I spoke to him at Oshkosh. He told me he has a model that fits the 601XL. There was a small issue with the rear canopy support bar. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 9:38 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Koger Sun Shades Netheads Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? Tracy Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/16/07 6:32 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: completion for sale
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 17, 2007
Me either. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134846#134846 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Koger Sun Shades
Just got mine in last week Tracy. He makes a shade 34" wide by 35" long for the 601XL. That's four inches wider than the RV7 shade and ten inches longer. I haven't installed it yet and haven't decided for sure whether or not I'll have it extend behind the rear canopy bow tube or not. You can either mount it entirely ahead of that tube or cut the C-channel and have the shade span the tube to shade the area behind the tube to whatever extent the sun exposure in that area demands. Call Ralph or email him for more details. Dred ---- robert stone wrote: > Netheads > Did any of you guys ever get in touch with Ralph Koger and has he finally developed a suitable sun shade design for the ZodiacXL? > > Tracy Stone > Harker Heights, Tx > ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 Rear Rudder Skin
From: "rbjjr" <burkeandsusan(at)verizon.net>
Date: Sep 17, 2007
I am building with kit ribs and scratch built skins. Mine bulged ever so slightly at the trailing edge at each rib. Hardly noticeable. After consulting pictures from the manual, Zenith's site, other builder's sites and the Homebuilt Help video, I'm satisfied with how things came out. Burke Johnson Irvington, VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134852#134852 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2007
Subject: (no subject)
Hey Zed: Neither address works. I can find a page at ginkgo, but can not get past that _http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html_ (http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html) _http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html_ (http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html) Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: GM <planelists(at)optonline.net>
Subject: (no subject)
http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/N9612home.html I found it at this link. It has to be capital N in the number. GeorgeM _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: (no subject) Hey Zed: Neither address works. I can find a page at ginkgo, but can not get past that http://www.ipass.net/gingo/n9612home.html http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html Lynn _____ See what's new a_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Correct "for sale" address
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 17, 2007
http://www.ipass.net/ginkgo/n9612home.html That ones not working either. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=134872#134872 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu>
Subject: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601
Hi Chris, You ask about recent changes/investigations. Here are two items: 1. The banjo bolt at the bottom of the crankcase holding the banjo fitting of the oil return line, several times produced trouble over the years, when the gaskets started leaking. At one time, the safety wire broke, but fortunately did not leave the bolt entirely and thus held the bolt in place. We had smoke in the cabin due to a small amount of oil having dripped onto the muffler. An immediate return to the airport saved the day. Most recently the fitting leaked again, and my AP friend at the airport cautioned me that the banjo bolt may be stretched. Indeed it was, as was evident from the elongation of the four holes in the bolt. The lesson learned here is: If the banjo bolt starts leaking, it may be wise to examine the bolt for stretching instead of just using new gaskets and reinstalling a stretched bolt. If the holes show any amount of elongation, a new bolt must be used. The torque MUST be according to Rotax spec. Do NOT guess the torque. Then use heavy-gauge safety wire to safety the bolt. Another lesson: It may be good idea to open the heater momentarily during the runup, to check for the smell of oil that may have dripped onto the muffler, say during overnight parking, and now is being vaporized. The amount of oil may be so small that it did not drip out of the cowl and thus was not detected during preflight. 2. Some years back I had improved on the original design of the 601HDS toe brakes, but this year I learned that this is not good enough at gross weight. So, starting this weekend, the toe brakes will be redesigned so that they become much more effective. When this is completed, I will add pictures and a description of the change on the website. If your 601 brakes also seem feeble to you, you may want to look and see if our changes would work for you. The change is made difficult by the size of the main brake cylinders and the way they have been attached. We want to modify the system without changing the design of the brake cylinders. That way, cylinders can be readily swapped later against new ones if that ever becomes necessary. Happy Flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus(at)utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: Klaus Truemper <klaus(at)utdallas.edu>
Subject: Re: Upper Bushing Wear - Rudder Hinge on 601
Hi Chris, You ask about recent changes/investigations. Here are two items: 1. Several times over the years, the banjo fitting at the bottom of the Rotax 912 crankcase began leaking. Each time I reinstalled the banjo bolt with new gaskets. Most recently the fitting leaked again. My AP friend at the airport cautioned me that the banjo bolt may be stretched. Indeed it was, as was evident from the elongation of the four holes in the bolt. The lesson learned here is: If the banjo fitting starts leaking, the banjo banjo bolt must be checked for stretching instead of just using new gaskets and reinstalling a stretched bolt. If the holes show any amount of elongation, a new bolt must be used. The torque must be according to Rotax spec. Heavy-gauge safety wire should be used to safety the bolt. The usual, thin, safety wire will not stand up to the high frequency vibration of the crankcase, as I found out some years ago. It may be a good idea to open the heater momentarily during the runup, to check for smell of oil that may have dripped onto the muffler, say during overnight parking, and that is being vaporized. The effect may be produced by just a few drops of oil that are not detected during preflight. A leaking banjo fitting may be the cause. 2. Several years ago we had improved the original design of the 601HDS toe brakes, but this year we realized during a landing at gross weight and high density altitude that the brakes must be further improved. Starting this weekend, the toe brakes will be redesigned so that they become much more effective. When this is completed, pictures and a description of the change will be added to the website. Happy Flying, Klaus -- Klaus Truemper Professor Emeritus of Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science EC31 P.O. Box 830688 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (972) 883-2712 klaus(at)utdallas.edu www.utdallas.edu/~klaus ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: corrupted aaddrreessee
Gig and all, The "N" in the N-number needs to be CAPITALIZED. Try http:// www.ipass.net/ginkgo/N9612home. then add "h t m l " without the spaces. For some reason, if I attempt to send the entire address on one line, the Matronics system kicks it back with an advisory that you can't send an "html" or some such. For those that are weary of this subject: This is a link to a pristine 1929 Ford Tri-Motor for sale. Not having room in the budget this week, and a bleak outlook for next week, I thought possibly some of the List might snap this up. Zed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: "Rob St Denis" <rob(at)iahu.ca>
Subject: chat tonight
http://chat.iahu.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2007
From: Tim Shankland <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: AOA for your Dynon
For all of you who have or are thinking of buying the Dynon and think you would like to be able to use the angle of attack indicator it doesn't have to cost another $200. I bought my Dynon for the attitude display and everything else was gravy. It wasn't until after I was flying with it I even realized that it have the AOA option. Being a builder oh and cheap too, I though $200 was a lot to pay so I looked into Dynon's and other AOA devices. Well anyway I made my own probe, cost nothing time about an hour or so and I can report it works great. Attached are a couple of pictures of the installation. The trick to ease of fabrication is that I used copper tubing, easier to solder together. The pitot tube is at a right angle to the support tube and the additional tube is angled 45 degrees down. To hold it I made a slot in the circular piece of 1/8 inch aluminum, I used my mill but it can be done with a drill and careful file work.. Mine as a snug fit to which I added epoxy. By the way don't start on how that copper is going to corrode with the aluminum I keep my plane inside and dry and I haven't seen any at other interfaces in the past year. Tim Shankland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Mikesell" <skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com>
Subject: VW engine and parts for sale or trade
Date: Sep 17, 2007
Ok guys, what I have is 1 full 2180 and one partial 2180. The one full 2180 has a tapered crank and prop hub, magnesium alloy case, bored and cleared, cylinder and heads and pistons, connecting rods, exhaust (a complete engine) and intake stubs from Great Plains. It has about 4 hrs of run time and is presently fully disassemble. The second is a brand new aluminum case for a 2180, new crank for a 2180, new timing pulley, new Aero carb for 2180vw, starter and new flywheel and prop hub for rear direct drive, also new 2.3 to 1 planetary gear box for rear drive, all gaskets and seals, new bearing for main and cam, compufire ignition system and who know what else odds and ends I am forgetting. New Grand Rapids EIS with altitude, fuel flow, manifold pressure and probably some stuff I am forgetting to mention but all the standard EIS stuff. What I am looking for is a couple of Half VW's for trade. Disassembled is ok but must be in good and complete condition. I would prefer in current flyable conditon and larger displacemnt. I would consider a 28hp model and a 37hp versions with no carbs or ignition in trade but must be complete and in flyable (good/excellent condition) for trade. I am also open to a 37hp half VW complete and cash or two stroke engine in lew of cash. All engines for trade must be in good/flyable condtion and come with prop. David Mikesell 230 Theresa Drive, #6 Cloverdale, CA 95425 209-224-4485 skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: howado1(at)comcast.net
Subject: elevator balancing
Date: Sep 18, 2007
Has anybody had experience with balancing an elevator? Any info would be appreciated. Howard Carter CH701 30% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: STOL Landings
Date: Sep 18, 2007
This is for the Archives, and for the fact that I have been asked several times. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com Flying the STOL CH 701 STOL CH 701 ' FLAP OPERATIONS [The following was supplied by M. Stewart of Australia] Several owners and pilots of the HYPERLINK "http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html"STOL CH 701 aircraft have asked for details on the correct method of effecting a full or partial flap landing with the STOL CH 701. Because the aircraft is principally a STOL aircraft, it does have certain flight characteristics, which are particular to this design. Such design features as its STOL handling, rugged construction and all-metal airframe, large baggage compartment and easy step in ' step out access make the CH701 an excellent bush aircraft. The aircraft has a very forgiving and wise "comfort zone", where you can fly without flap or even with partial flap, with the expectation that it will handle "conventionally". This is the nicest zone to fly in and requires little extra skill than the normal or ab-initial pilot would possess. However, like any airplane, it needs to be understood and true short field handling requires practice, no matter what your flying skills. The airplane can be landed quite safely and without power in all flap settings. What is required for the more exotic maneuvers, I say again, is practice. First, let us take a look at the aircraft wing. It has a fixed leading edge slat. This produces much higher amounts of lift than a regular wing but the trade off is increased drag. wing profiles Next, let us consider the full-length flaperons. Again, much higher lifting potential on full extension, coming down some 35 degrees and in effect have an "air brake" effect on the aircraft. Although exceptionally strong, the airplane is still a very light design (ie. an Ultralight) and therefore, its kinetic energy is less than a much heavier (general aviation) aircraft. As such, once it picks up extra drag, it either requires more thrust to match or it slows down. This thrust is either with engine power, or by lowering the nose more. In essence, if the STOL CH 701 is flying "clean" (the nice comfort zone), it flies little different to any other "regular" aircraft of its size. Once flap is selected, the geometry of the aircraft alters and as a consequence, the pilot must modify the handling ' albeit slightly. If the pilot wishes to learn the more exotic STOL handling of the airplane, there are two ways the STOL CH 701 pilot can learn. For simplicity, I will list them. To begin with, there is no substitute for going two up with either a qualified instructor or STOL CH 701 pilot who is current in handling STOL aircraft in short field techniques with flaps. If you don=92t have that good fortune, the following is a guide in building up the required experience in handling the STOL CH 701 with flaps: * Choose a calm air day. Don=92t try to practice on gusty or bumpy days. You need to know how your aircraft is handling in calm air, before you take on the rough stuff. STOL aircraft are more sensitive to gusts and bumps, when set up with flap, etc. ' that=92s why they=92re STOL! * If you are a low time pilot you should initially build up to 20 or 30 hours of "comfort zone" flying. That is to say, don=92t use the flap at all. Just get used to the "feel" of the STOL CH 701. If you are a more experienced pilot you will no doubt cut that initial period down dramatically. Even in the flapless condition, you will be able to enjoy very short field handling of the STOL CH 701. Some 701 pilots simply ignore the flaps, as they get all the enjoyment they need with the aircraft flying clean. * Once you have a feel of the STOL CH 701, take it up to a safe height for upper air work. Bring the airspeed back to under flap extension speed. Apply =BD flap. Then, keeping under the flap extension speed, just fly the airplane around for awhile until you are acquainted with the lower nose attitude and handling -and the need for more engine power. * Once you are comfortable with the new attitude, try a couple of stalls with the power off. This exercise is performed to reacquaint you with your stall speed. Next try coming in to the stall very slowly. You will notice the aircraft tends to hold its nose up, or even level - and starts to "mush" downwards. Learn to recognize the airspeed just before it starts the mush. That is the airspeed you need to be above on flare once you start the actual landings. Make a note of it and give yourself a few knots above as your minimum - just for extra safety. * Then, put the aircraft into a glide approach, making a decision to effect a flare at say, 1,500 ft AGL. A VSI is helpful but you should be able to feel rise or fall through your seat. * Once you get to your designated height, practice with and without power. Imagine flaring the airplane at the exact designated height. Take note of your airspeed. You will notice that the ASI drops off more rapidly with =BD flap, when compared to nil flap for a similar maneuver. You will also notice a steeper nose down attitude is required for =BD flap. * Having practiced these approaches, start making powered approaches at the runway with =BD flap. Once you are comfortable, gradually reduce power settings until you are using a glide approach. Note the steeper glide angle. * When commencing with Full Flap, repeat the above steps. You will also notice the very much steeper descent and lower nose attitude ' which is how STOL works. Steep in ' steep out. It can be a bit disconcerting and many pilots try to hold the nose of the aircraft at the "comfort zone" attitude and therefore lose airspeed and therefore elevator authority in the final stages of approach and as a result may wheelbarrow the aircraft on. Remember the cardinal rule with STOL ' "Anticipate and Practice!" Generally speaking, most STOL approaches with flap should be carried out with a degree of power. Unpowered, full flap approaches are achievable but require good pilot handling skills and a reasonable depth perception ' principally in knowing when to flare. Airspeed is the critical factor in minimum speed operations when approaching terra firma. Be ready to go around. Full power will usually kick the STOL CH 701 upwards very smartly ' getting you away from the ground. In Summary: 1. Try to obtain the services of a qualified instructor or suitably experienced STOL CH 701 pilot. Failing that: 2. Fly the airplane for 20-30 hours in the 'flapless' condition, unless you are a high time pilot. 3. Make your initial flap approaches onto an imaginary airfield 1,000 or so higher than the ground. 4. Graduate your power settings, starting with =BD flap and then going to full flap. 5. Keep your airspeed up on approach. (I use 2 kts below Vfe) 6. Note the much steeper nose down attitude for the two flap settings. 7. Timing of the flare is important. Too soon and speed will bleed off. 8. If you think you are sinking too much, apply power smartly until sink is arrested. 9. Practice! Practice! Practice! There are nearly 600 STOL CH 701s flying around the world. My information is that there has never been a fatality. They are used in Africa for one-on-one safari: and in South America into jungle strips and mud flats. They fly into lakes wet and frozen, in the Arctic north of America. They hop in and out of tight spots and flap is used as and when needed. Appreciate this little airplane will fly "conventionally" but when you are ready, it will happily do what you ask of it when tight spots and flap is employed. It will fly "conventionally" and happily give you hours of as much exciting and exotic flying as any STOL pilot properly practiced could wish for! 9/16/2007 6:32 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
I have a couple of questions. 1. Have you flown with it yet? 2. Where is it in relation to the standard 601 Pitot/Static probe? 3. It looks alot like the standard probe. DO you see any reason that the standard probe, that comes in the kit, couldn't be modified into you design? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135047#135047 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Running new lines in a closed wing
Date: Sep 18, 2007
The wings are closed in the second-hand 601XL kit I bought. The original builder ran the Pitot/static lines and wires for the landing lights. The existing wires run through grommeted holes in the ribs. But I'm adding strobes, nav lights and an AOA probe. The AOA probe is like the AFS probe with flush ports in the upper and lower wing surfaces near the tip (www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html). So I don't need access to the middle of the wing, just a way to run wires and Tygon from the root to the tip. So how do I run the new lines? I've thought of a number of approaches: - just lay the lines through the lightening holes and let them flap around (semi-serious) - lay conduit through the lightening holes and only clamp it at the ends. - like above but add an inspection port in the middle of the wing's bottom surface to allow a third clamp for the conduit in the middle. - remove the existing wires and use an electricians 5 foot drill extension from both ends to enlarge holes to support conduit. - open the skins. Comments? Other approaches? If I open the skins can it be done without having to re-jig the wing? -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Running new lines in a closed wing
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
You should have once access point at the aileron bell-crank. You might be able to reach far enough in there to put some sort of clamp on the bundle. I'd add another access somewhere else and do the same. This is assuming that you don't have wing lockers that you are going around. craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > The wings are closed in the second-hand 601XL kit I bought. The original > builder ran the Pitot/static lines and wires for the landing lights. The > existing wires run through grommeted holes in the ribs. But I'm adding > strobes, nav lights and an AOA probe. The AOA probe is like the AFS probe > with flush ports in the upper and lower wing surfaces near the tip > (www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html). So I don't need > access to the middle of the wing, just a way to run wires and Tygon from the > root to the tip. > > So how do I run the new lines? I've thought of a number of approaches: > > - just lay the lines through the lightening holes and let them flap around > (semi-serious) > - lay conduit through the lightening holes and only clamp it at the ends. > - like above but add an inspection port in the middle of the wing's bottom > surface to allow a third clamp for the conduit in the middle. > - remove the existing wires and use an electricians 5 foot drill extension > from both ends to enlarge holes to support conduit. > - open the skins. > > Comments? Other approaches? If I open the skins can it be done without > having to re-jig the wing? > > -- Craig -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135093#135093 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Running new lines in a closed wing
Date: Sep 18, 2007
> This is assuming that you don't have wing lockers that you are going around. Nope, no wing lockers so the lightening holes are available. Now adding wing lockers would get me some access in to the wing's interior but they are pretty close to the root. I've considered the crank access hole but it is pretty small to work through. I think I'd need an arthroscopic surgeon to do the work. Dred is used to working in small places but I think he uses both hands. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Running new lines in a closed wing
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
My bell-crank access points are large. I made the same mistake twice. But for this you really won't need access to them after you do the original install so there isn't a problem with doing as many as you need and riveting the cover on them. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135120#135120 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Draft from the canopy
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
as we come now closer to the cooler part of the year i wonder if any of you have similar problems with a bit of a draft from the forward part of canopy left and right just beside the instrument panel. any ideas how to reduce it? alex CH601XL 912S RTF from CZAW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135136#135136 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Draft from the canopy
Date: Sep 18, 2007
Remember those days pilots wore silk scarfs, well it is not that we don't like the feel of silk, we just don't like the breeze coming in beside the panel. So remove your scarf and jam it in there. Mittens work well too. :-) Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of alex_01 Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Draft from the canopy as we come now closer to the cooler part of the year i wonder if any of you have similar problems with a bit of a draft from the forward part of canopy left and right just beside the instrument panel. any ideas how to reduce it? alex CH601XL 912S RTF from CZAW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135136#135136 9/17/2007 1:29 PM 9/17/2007 1:29 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Draft from the canopy
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
i am using currently a sock on each side - just hoped for a nicer way. use the sealant tape on the bottom too and there it works fine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135142#135142 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EZ Pilot Dispaly Question
From: "jackandval" <jackry(at)alltel.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
I think it only comes in the LCD model now. [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135155#135155 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Draft from the canopy
Date: Sep 18, 2007
I put some pieces of weather stripping vertically just in front of the lift strut. George May 601XL 912s 150 hours> Subject: Zenith-List: Draft from the canopy> From: z oechling(at)gmx.de> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:37:46 -0700> To: zenith-list@mat e>> > as we come now closer to the cooler part of the year i wonder if any of you have similar problems with a bit of a draft from the forward part of canopy left and right just beside the instrument panel. any ideas how to r educe it?> alex> CH601XL 912S RTF from CZAW> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135136#135136> > > ==============> > > _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf =E9. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2007
From: Tim Shankland <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
Gig, To answer your questions 1. Yes I have flown with it, I did a series of stalls as indicated in the Dynon instructions for calibrating the unit. I have also flown it twice since and the indicator on the Dynon gives a steady reliable response. 2. It is the pitot tube. The Dynon used the pitot tube as one of the references and the angled tube as the other. All this or any other AOA is is a sum of the vector magnitudes of the air in each tube. It can be shown mathematically, and I have, That with the two probes as shown there is a linear relationship between the angle of attack and the their pressure differential. 3. It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I used copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them together. tie wraps? Gig Giacona wrote: > >I have a couple of questions. > >1. Have you flown with it yet? >2. Where is it in relation to the standard 601 Pitot/Static probe? >3. It looks alot like the standard probe. DO you see any reason that the standard probe, that comes in the kit, couldn't be modified into you design? > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135047#135047 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
davgray(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > For me I would have been much better off ordering an engine from William Wynne and not listen to the local experts. My initial ignorance added to my build time and overall cost. Virtually all of the initial work had to be redone. > If I may ask, what were some of the mistakes...? I'm currently building a Corvair for the first time, so maybe I could learn something here. Any advice or "gotchas" that can help us new guys out...? Thanks, Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135167#135167 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 18, 2007
Zenith Enthusiasts: It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like the weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. I have information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith Newsletter, Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and more on the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA Chapter along with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from Traffic Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area to demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun with identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In order to entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was to save money on your trip: First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the EAA fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with the Chapter. Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to "Buy 1 DVD - Get 1 Free!" That's 2 DVDs for the price of one. I'll have a large selection of the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the Gathering so you can decide which to buy. Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay for some of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the tanks of any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 300, 640, Zipper, Alarus, CH-2000, or Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. Simply find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many planes fly in, I will consider the Five Hundred Dollars well spent. So come on down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I'll put some gas in your tow vehicle. So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I'm hoping for a large turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! Jeff Davidson 703-471-1153 zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Draft from the canopy
Date: Sep 18, 2007
Tracy-- I had/have the same issue. The cockpit is a low pressure area so the air definitely gets sucked in. The first thing I did was to add a second piece of rubber combing to the re ar canopy edge by gluing it to the bottom edge of the existing combing. Thi s extended the width of the rubber seal and yet kept everything flexible. I n addition I added a piece of very soft foam (homedepot pipe insulation) to the inside rear bottom of the canopy. And yes, all this does increase the closing pressure needed to latch the canopy. I also had to come up with a lever to help in closing the canopy on the pas senger side. Also found I had to close off the open space behind the seats with plast ic and tape along with insuring the boot top is snugged tight to the contro l stick, and the vents capped off. With all this in place I've been able to fly comfortably with the temps at 14F at altitude. George May 601XL 912s 150hrs >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words?- Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Running new lines in a closed wing
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2007
Craig, I am just about to close up my left wing. It has all the stuff in it you are planing and has been rotated several times. I think you could remove the top leading edge skin and top wing skin as long as you have a good flat table to check the wing you should be able to take it apart and put it back together. Punch the rivet centers back then just take the heads off with a sharp drill. I would want to check the wings out any way. Zenith made up a new book this year that shows a method of checking Wing Twist "6w08aa.pdf", it's in the builders photo assembly guide area. If you find the wing is in good shape just re-wire, plumb and assemble. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135207#135207 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Here are a few Paid for a total rework of the original heads where new valve seats were secured by staking instead of the interference fit of Falcon. Result was to discard the heads and get a set from Falcon. Cylinder Honing that I was assured would be done in a compression jig to avoid out of round condition when the cylinders are compressed during normal operation after torqueing the heads. Replaced these also. Replaced Crank for Nitrided Crank. (original was done before it became standard practice to use Nitrided only.) Connecting Rods reworked to unacceptable standards at the bearing surfaces. Should have used the Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA that WW suggests as the best choice. (would have saved 6 months of experimenting) I am not engine savy enough to have reliably discovered items like this before learning the hard way. Once again I have to thank William Wynne for everything he has done. Confidence in my engine is much higher knowing that it has been worked on by William's team. Gary Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight > > > davgray(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > > For me I would have been much better off ordering an engine from William Wynne and not listen to the local experts. My initial ignorance added to my build time and overall cost. Virtually all of the initial work had to be redone. > > > > > If I may ask, what were some of the mistakes...? > > I'm currently building a Corvair for the first time, so maybe I could learn something here. > > Any advice or "gotchas" that can help us new guys out...? > > Thanks, > > Patrick > 601XL/Corvair > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135167#135167 > > > -- 11:53 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
Date: Sep 19, 2007
> Should have used the Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA that WW suggests as the best choice. (would have saved 6 months of experimenting) What carb or carbs did you try before the Marvel? -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Let me ask this another way. On the pitot/static probe that Zenith ships the pitot is one of the tubes and the static is the other and they are connected together like yours but without the 45 degree bend on the other tube. Also the static probe end is blocked and there are a 2 or 3 small holes for the port. I'm wondering if I could drill out the block in the end, fill the small holes and add the 45 degree angle and use it? It sounds like I could. This would save a lot of problems, because I've already drilled for the Zenith mount. And would cost nothing because I've already paid for the zenith p/s probe. tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n wrote: > > 3. It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I used > copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the > existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them > together. tie wraps? > > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135245#135245 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Near Perfect Flight
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
davgray(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: > Here are a few Thanks for sharing. I bet the overall project completion rate is increased considerably by the willingness of so many people on this list to share their experiences like this. It sure helps me (and probably a whole bunch of other guys who are thinking about the same things). Which will lead to more of us posting our own stories of Near Perfect Flight in the future... :D Patrick 601XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135253#135253 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Last trip for aluminun
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Hello group ,I feel like I have reached a major milestone today .I am leaving for Houston today to pick the last 5 pieces of aluminum that will finish my 601XL. One is to replace a ruined bottom rear wing skin . Trident made me a good price on the .025 4X12 6061-T6 $60.00 each. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Jeff, Where is Winchester? Is it KBGF in Tennessee, South of Tullahoma and about 60 NM SE of Nashville? EAA chapter 699 is located there. Tony Graziano, Zodiac 601XL; N493TG Buchanan, Tn ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Subject: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester From: Jeff (jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net) Date: Tue Sep 18 - 6:29 PM Zenith Enthusiasts: It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like the weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. I have information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith Newsletter, Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and more on the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA Chapter along with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from Traffic Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area to demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun with identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In order to entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was to save money on your trip: First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the EAA fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with the Chapter. Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to "Buy 1 DVD - Get 1 Free!" That's 2 DVDs for the price of one. I'll have a large selection of the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the Gathering so you can decide which to buy. Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay for some of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the tanks of any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 300, 640, Zipper, Alarus, CH-2000, or Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. Simply find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many planes fly in, I will consider the Five Hundred Dollars well spent. So come on down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I'll put some gas in your tow vehicle. So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I'm hoping for a large turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! Jeff Davidson 703-471-1153 zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: john H <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Hi Jeff I am planning on coming to Winchester with my 601HD. I will probably be c oming Fri evening and leaving late Saturday afternoon. Is there any ground transportation to get to a motel and back? Are tie downs available? If all goes as planned, I look forward to meeting you and other Zenith folks. Sou nds like a good time. John From: jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net Subject: Zenith-List: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:22:06 -0400 Zenith Enthusiasts: It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like the weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. I have information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith Newsletter, Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and more on the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA Chapter along with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from Traff ic Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area to demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun with identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In order to entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was to save money on your trip: First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the EAA fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with t he Chapter. Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to =93Buy 1 DVD - Get 1 Free!=94 That=92s 2 DVDs for the price of one. I=92ll have a large selection of the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the Gathering so you can decide which to buy. Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay for some of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the tanks of any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 30 0, 640, Zipper, Alarus, CH-2000, or Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. Simply find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many planes fly in, I will consider the Five Hund red Dollars well spent. So come on down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I=92ll put some gas in your tow vehicle. So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I=92m hoping for a large turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! Jeff Davidson 703-471-1153 zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf =E9. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: john H <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Hey Tony Winchester is in VA. WOKV From: tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:37 -0500 Jeff, Where is Winchester? Is it KBGF in Tennessee, South of Tullahoma and about 60 NM SE of Nashville? EAA chapter 699 is located there. Tony Graziano, Zodiac 601XL; N493TG Buchanan, Tn Subject: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester From: Jeff (jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net) Date: Tue Sep 18 - 6:29 PM Zenith Enthusiasts: It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like the weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. I have information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith Newsletter, Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and more on the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA Chapter along with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from Traffic Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area to demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun with identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In order to entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was to save money on your trip: First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the EAA fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with the Chapter. Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to "Buy 1 DVD - Get 1 Free!" That's 2 DVDs for the price of one. I'll have a large selection of the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the Gathering s o you can decide which to buy. Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay for some of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the tanks of any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 300, 640, Zipper, Alarus, CH-2000, or Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. Simply find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many planes fly in, I will consider the Five Hundred Dollars well spent. So come on down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I'll put some gas in your tow vehicle. So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I'm hoping for a large turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! Jeff Davidson 703-471-1153 zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever ' Get MORE with Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE. NOW with 5GB storage. ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 19, 2007
John, WOKV is a commercial radio station in Jacksonville, Florida. OKV (KOKV) is the airport at Winchester, Virginia. On Sep 19, 2007, at 12:01 PM, john H wrote: > Hey Tony > > Winchester is in VA. WOKV > >> From: tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net >> To: zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net; zenith-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester >> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:37 -0500 >> >> Jeff, >> >> Where is Winchester? Is it KBGF in Tennessee, South of Tullahoma and >> about 60 NM SE of Nashville? EAA chapter 699 is located there. >> >> Tony Graziano, >> Zodiac 601XL; N493TG >> Buchanan, Tn >> >> >>> Subject: >>> >>> Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester >>> From: >>> >>> Jeff (jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net) >>> Date: >>> >>> Tue Sep 18 - 6:29 PM >>>> Zenith Enthusiasts: >>>> >>>> >>>> It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like >>>> the >>>> weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. >>>> I have >>>> information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith >>>> Newsletter, >>>> Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and >>>> more on >>>> the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA >>>> Chapter along >>>> with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from >>>> Traffic >>>> Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area >>>> to >>>> demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun >>>> with >>>> identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. >>>> >>>> But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In >>>> order to >>>> entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was >>>> to save >>>> money on your trip: >>>> >>>> First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the >>>> EAA >>>> fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with the Chapter. >>>> >>>> Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to "Buy 1 DVD - >>>> Get 1 >>>> Free!" That's 2 DVDs for the price of one. I'll have a large >>>> selection of >>>> the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the >>>> Gathering so >>>> you can decide which to buy. >>>> >>>> Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay >>>> for some >>>> of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the >>>> tanks of >>>> any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 300, 640, Zipper, Alarus, >>>> CH-2000, or >>>> Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an >>>> absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. >>>> Simply >>>> find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many >>>> planes >>>> fly in, I will consider the Five Hundred Dollars well spent. So >>>> come on >>>> down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I'll put >>>> some gas >>>> in your tow vehicle. >>>> >>>> So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I'm hoping for >>>> a large >>>> turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! >>>> >>>> Jeff Davidson >>>> >>>> 703-471-1153 >>>> >>>> >>>> zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> > > More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows > Live Hotmail. NOW with 5GB > storageTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907' target='_new'>Get more! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: john H <professor71(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester
Date: Sep 19, 2007
oops you are right.it is KOKV is it Friday yet? > From: alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:23:42 -0400 > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > om> > > John, > > WOKV is a commercial radio station in Jacksonville, Florida. OKV > (KOKV) is the airport at Winchester, Virginia. > > > On Sep 19, 2007, at 12:01 PM, john H wrote: > > > Hey Tony > > > > Winchester is in VA. WOKV > > > >> From: tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net > >> To: zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net; zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester > >> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:33:37 -0500 > >> > >> Jeff, > >> > >> Where is Winchester? Is it KBGF in Tennessee, South of Tullahoma and > >> about 60 NM SE of Nashville? EAA chapter 699 is located there. > >> > >> Tony Graziano, > >> Zodiac 601XL; N493TG > >> Buchanan, Tn > >> > >> > >>> Subject: > >>> > >>> Mid-Atlantic Zenith Gathering at Winchester > >>> From: > >>> > >>> Jeff (jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net) > >>> Date: > >>> > >>> Tue Sep 18 - 6:29 PM > >>>> Zenith Enthusiasts: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> It is now less than a week until the Gathering! It is Iooking like > >>>> the > >>>> weather will shape up for a great weekend on the 22nd and the 23rd. > >>>> I have > >>>> information and prizes from HomeBuiltHelp, CAN-ZAC, The Zenith > >>>> Newsletter, > >>>> Zenith Aircraft Company, Aircraft Manufacturing & Development, and > >>>> more on > >>>> the way. The tent and parking area are arranged with the EAA > >>>> Chapter along > >>>> with a brand new Zenith Gathering banner big enough to see from > >>>> Traffic > >>>> Pattern Altitude. The displays are coming along great and an area > >>>> to > >>>> demonstrate sheet metal building Zenith style is too. And some fun > >>>> with > >>>> identifying Zenith parts is in the mix. > >>>> > >>>> But the highlight of the show will be the planes that fly in. In > >>>> order to > >>>> entice as many to fly in as possible, I have arranged for some was > >>>> to save > >>>> money on your trip: > >>>> > >>>> First, there is no fee to fly in and attend the Gathering and the > >>>> EAA > >>>> fly-in. But please do register on your arrival with the Chapter. > >>>> > >>>> Second, HomeBuiltHelp has provided me with coupons to "Buy 1 DVD - > >>>> Get 1 > >>>> Free!" That's 2 DVDs for the price of one. I'll have a large > >>>> selection of > >>>> the HomebuiltHelp and Zenith DVDs on hand to demonstrate at the > >>>> Gathering so > >>>> you can decide which to buy. > >>>> > >>>> Third, I have made arrangements with the airport management to pay > >>>> for some > >>>> of your gas. I will be issuing my own coupons good to top off the > >>>> tanks of > >>>> any Zenith 601, 701, 801, 200, 250, 300, 640, Zipper, Alarus, > >>>> CH-2000, or > >>>> Patriot that flies in up to 10 gallons. This offer is good up to an > >>>> absolute limit of $500 cost to me. Only one coupon per airplane. > >>>> Simply > >>>> find me at the Zenith Gathering tent for your coupon. If that many > >>>> planes > >>>> fly in, I will consider the Five Hundred Dollars well spent. So > >>>> come on > >>>> down and top off your tanks on me! If you trailer it in, I'll put > >>>> some gas > >>>> in your tow vehicle. > >>>> > >>>> So make you plans to be in Winchester next weekend. I'm hoping for > >>>> a large > >>>> turnout of Zenith enthusiasts and aircraft! > >>>> > >>>> Jeff Davidson > >>>> > >>>> 703-471-1153 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> zenithgathering(at)earthlink.net > >>> > >> > >> > >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > >> tp://forums.matronics.com > >> > > > > More photos; more messages; more whatever ' Get MORE with Windows > > Live=99 Hotmail=AE. NOW with 5GB > > storageTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_5G_0907' target='_new'>Get more! > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Capture your memories in an online journal! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2007
From: Jay Caldwell <caldwelljf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Dual throttle
I am building a CH-801 with a turbo charged Subaru. I need a dual throttle set-up, so one can fly from the right or left side. As you know, the "stick" is a "Y" in the center of the cockpit. There are two sets of rudder pedals. The pilot needs the "stick" in his/her right hand and the throttle in the left hand. It is visa-versa for the co-pilot. Has anyone solved this problem or has any ideas. Thanks, Jay Jay F. Caldwell Owner, Caldwell Systems Engineering (CSE), LLC 4181 Tamilynn Court San Diego, CA 92122 Voice 858.453.4594 Facsimile 858.452.1560 Work 619.562.0885 Mobile 858.336.0394 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: soundproofing 601xl
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
i would like to do a bit of soundproofing for the cabin of my 601 - looking for any suggestions if poss with pics thank you Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135314#135314 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2007
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: soundproofing 601xl
Hi, Alex. I recently did the same thing to my 601XL, and wrote it up for KITPLANES June 2007 issue. Bottom line, it's worth it! Rick Lindstrom -----Original Message----- >From: alex_01 <zoechling(at)gmx.de> >Sent: Sep 19, 2007 11:11 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: soundproofing 601xl > > >i would like to do a bit of soundproofing for the cabin of my 601 - looking for any suggestions if poss with pics thank you > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135314#135314 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Dual throttle
Date: Sep 19, 2007
The standard 601 drawings shows a very simple throttle bell-crank that has a two push rods that extends into the cabin for the passenger and the pilot . This is what I use on my plane. The throttle cable attaches in the midd le. It is a very simple set up. If the 801 drawings don't show something similar, I could provide some more info. The bell crank kind of looks like: _|_________|_|________|_ except it is as wide as the firewallPhil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey I am building a CH-801 with a turbo charged Subaru. I need a dual throttle set-up, so one can fly from the right or left side. As you know, the "sti ck" is a "Y" in the center of the cockpit. There are two sets of rudder pe dals. The pilot needs the "stick" in his/her right hand and the throttle i n the left hand. It is visa-versa for the co-pilot. Has anyone solved this problem or has any ideas. Thanks, Jay _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf =E9. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: soundproofing 601xl
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
maybe someone can help me with this article (pdf?) as i am here in Germany and therefore cant get this magazine and i would be very interested to have a better soundproofing thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135337#135337 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Non-LSA ops limits
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Gang: If I plan to certify my plane experimental, but not light sport, what are reasonable values for max gross and G limits? Also, does anyone know if the CG envelope has any gross weight dependence? That is, do the CG limits change with load? Finally, is this information on the ZAC web site somewhere? I couldn't find it. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
You don't have to certify a plane as a LSA in order to fly it as one.... it just has to meet the requirements. As to max gross and G limits, I would think you would have to go with those specified by the designer which would be 1320 lbs and +6 -6 ultimate (although I've sometimes seen the ultimate - G load given as 3g's. The info is on the first page of the plans as well as on Zenith's website. I don't believe there is any change in gross wt limits based upon CG. Check out http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/specification.html Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135346#135346 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Subject: Re: Dual throttle
USjabiru has a dual throttle set up for the CH701. Although it is for the Jabiru engine I would think it could be fitted to the CH801 fairly easily. John Read do not archive Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
I recieved 2 boxes (12 cans) from aircraftspruce last week. No note that would be discontinued. I am hoping this will be enogh to complete project. Any words from Zenith on using the safer version? Don't have the name off the top of my head sorry. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135367#135367 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engines
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
I plan on ordering my engine within the next month. I haven't seen this topic for about a year and thought I would start it again for those of us newbies who are too lazy to search the archives. Engine is between Rotax 912 and Jab3300. I own a plane with a Rotax and like their reliablility but I want the extra speed of the Jab but live in a very hot area of the country. Any input would be appreciated. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135370#135370 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
As to the Cg limitation, I asked the guys at Zenith this very question a couple of months ago. The answer was that the Cg limits do not vary with loading, although if you do a search on this board, someone posted some English certifications that did, indeed, vary the Cg limits with weight. This was with the CZAW built plane though, I believe, and they mount the engine considerably further forward, or that is my understanding. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135371#135371 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electronics
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
I have only been on this forum for a few months and have searched the archives but still have a few questions concerning instruments for the 601xl. Efis versus standard instruments. I have been reading alot on the electrics page about using solid electrics for flight instruments and the dangers if you have a power out situation. Most of the info here seems to be use the efis with gyro backups. If I have gyro instruments why do I want an efis, speaking in a cost effective tone? I can't seem to get any info on where I can buy gyro instruments. I don't wany anything used. A standard 6 pack is what I have in mind. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Don N601NV (Reserved) 601xl finishing wings South Texas Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135372#135372 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Samm" <heliav8r(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 19, 2007
If VFR you won't need backups for anything. If you go IFR, depending upon the equipment and your fear factor, you might want backups. Samm Munn CH-601XL(plans) Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Electronics > If I have gyro instruments why do I want an efis, speaking in a cost > effective tone? > I can't seem to get any info on where I can buy gyro instruments. I > don't wany anything used. A standard 6 pack is what I have in mind. > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2007
From: Tim Shankland <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
Gig, Sounds like a plan, I have not seen the Zenith pitot, I scratch built my plane, but it sounds like it should work, the hardest part was pulling that extra tube through a finished wing. Tim Gig Giacona wrote: > >Let me ask this another way. On the pitot/static probe that Zenith ships the pitot is one of the tubes and the static is the other and they are connected together like yours but without the 45 degree bend on the other tube. Also the static probe end is blocked and there are a 2 or 3 small holes for the port. > >I'm wondering if I could drill out the block in the end, fill the small holes and add the 45 degree angle and use it? It sounds like I could. > >This would save a lot of problems, because I've already drilled for the Zenith mount. And would cost nothing because I've already paid for the zenith p/s probe. > > >tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n wrote: > > >>3. It is a duplicate of a standard probe, the only reason I used >>copper is that it was easier to solder them together. You could use the >>existing pitot and add the second probe you just have to fasten them >>together. tie wraps? >> >> >> >> > > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135245#135245 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks
Zinc-oxide is one alternative. Art mosquito56 wrote: I recieved 2 boxes (12 cans) from aircraftspruce last week. No note that would be discontinued. I am hoping this will be enogh to complete project. Any words from Zenith on using the safer version? Don't have the name off the top of my head sorry. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135367#135367 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Electronics
Date: Sep 19, 2007
"Efis versus standard instruments. I have been reading alot on the electrics page about using solid electrics for flight instruments and the dangers if you have a power out situation. " Don, Just two things to get this started: First, by and large the 601 and 701 are VFR airplanes. Redundancy is usually a concern associated with IFR craft. In the case of the Dynon EFIS, I bought the backup battery that is inside the EFIS case. In ground based testing, the EFIS keeps on going even when all power is removed. According to Dynon, it should run on the backup battery for 90 minutes. That should be enough time to get on the ground to sort things out. Jeff Davidson CH 601 HD/3300A & all glass panel First flight real soon now .... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronics
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Thanks, that is good to know I don't have to worry much about backups? What about night flight? I am installing dual landing lights? Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135403#135403 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Reconsideration of mission + intro (long)
From: "smoore" <moore.sean(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Hi all, I've been doing research about AB-EX planes for nearly a year now and was CONVINCED a Sonex w/Aerovee was MY airplane. I live in CO and figured I could just use the wonderfully long runways we have here in the USA to overcome any DA problems. With the FAA restructuring, this may no longer be the case. I'm not a rich man by any means but have always managed to have "big-boy toys" around... motorcycles, 4x4's, what have you. However, I sure can't afford to purchase and fly most any certified aircraft, therefore AB-EX. User fees would be hard to pay on principle, let alone practical financial means. Oh, I am a non-pilot who last acted as PIC 22 years ago when I was in high school. I understand that either the Sonex or just about any Heintz design would suffice for primary training. Any of the Sonex, 601 or 701 should be enough airplane for me to enjoy flying for years. The added safety of a STOL configuration is a bonus. I've read lots of reports of "stupid pilot tricks" and have thought, "Wow, I could make that mistake!" As far as I understand, there have been no fatalities in 21 years of CH 701 flying. So... if I can operate a CH701 from a football field, I figure I can find somewhere to fly it from for Saturday afternoon fun flights. My mission basically includes: - Day/(occasional) Night VFR - 2up, full fuel, camping gear. - tie down outside in CO in flying season, trailer able for backyard storage. - low fuel consumption and *maintenance* costs. - mainly "sunday flying" with the occasional camping XC - ability to attend fly-ins and now possibly.... - off airport operation - float operation To the questions: 1 - What's it really like to cruise at 85mph? Obviously you're not going to be hanging with a group of RV's when going to a pancake breakfast. At 85mph does that pancake breakfast turn into a pancake lunch? 2 - The Rotax. Good lord are these things expensive. I've looked on Barnstormers for only a week but there just aren't any 912 or 912s motors available used. Is there an economical way to get into the Rotax? 2 (supplemental) - I don't mind spending money on my own education ("Rotax school") nearly as much as spending it on material goods. i.e. I'd be confident in buying a 1/3 "used up" Rotax and the education required to maintain/troubleshoot/overhaul it for the same price as a new Rotax *if* the rebuild costs aren't extreme. 3 - How much is a complete overhaul for the Rotax? How about a top end? I've seen some really scary unsubstantiated rumors about $3000 cranks for the 912? That's insanity when I could rebuild a VW four times for that much money. 4 - The alternates. I understand that there are some Corvair CH 701 being built. Does the designer condone these installations? Being my very first airplane I'm not really looking to experiment, I want to follow a proven path. 5 - The 801. These things look like an incredible aircraft. 801 proponents, please feel free to try to convince me to take the extra training and get a medical to break from the SP regulations! :) I have simply discounted 4-up flight from my mission for economy. So anyway, HI! I'll be using the matronics forum to view and participate in this list. -------- -- Sean Moore ... re-evaluating mission Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135405#135405 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
if you have a battery Lypo back up like in the Dynon, no need for back ups. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: mosquito56 <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> >Sent: Sep 19, 2007 7:12 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Electronics > > >I have only been on this forum for a few months and have searched the archives but still have a few questions concerning instruments for the 601xl. > Efis versus standard instruments. I have been reading alot on the electrics page about using solid electrics for flight instruments and the dangers if you have a power out situation. > Most of the info here seems to be use the efis with gyro backups. If I have gyro instruments why do I want an efis, speaking in a cost effective tone? > I can't seem to get any info on where I can buy gyro instruments. I don't wany anything used. A standard 6 pack is what I have in mind. > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. >Don >N601NV (Reserved) >601xl finishing wings >South Texas > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135372#135372 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Todd's Canopies
From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 19, 2007
I received a canopy from Todd's a few weeks ago, and thought I'd say something about it. It was packed in a very nice cardboard with wooden frame box, and arrived without a scratch. The transport company dropped it off at my Door even though I was warned that they may call me to come pick it up at their station. The canopy was not rolled like the Zenith original, it is full sized and perfectly molded. Unlike some suppliers, Todd's was prompt and informative along the way. I never felt like I needed to call to check on status, because he told me when it would be ready, and shipped, and it was... It even came with a nice hat. Highly recommended! Jon Burns 601XL - almost halfway done! Corvair in pieces! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135408#135408 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2_177.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1_569.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com>
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks
Date: Sep 19, 2007
Great message. Too bad it was blank when it got to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Art Olechowski To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Don, quite a lot has changed in the last year. I have to assume your aircraft is a 601XL; if so the current engine choice has moved from the original 3300 that the XL was designed to accomodate, thru the 912S to Continental 0-200. All of these are fit for purpose with the 0-200 having the best track record. Around here the 912 hasnt been that reliable, but most operators tend to stay with them, possibly because changing the installation and prop to something else is a big project. You can't have it both ways. The 3300 folks in USA have well developed installations and support for Zenairs, you probably need to visit them if youre anywhere handy first. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135438#135438 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 20, 2007
www.sensornetics.com the cheapest and nicest panel we sell, cost for value wise. I have two installed in my 701. For the 601 I had installed a Dynon and I am very happy with that unit. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mosquito56 Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Thanks, that is good to know I don't have to worry much about backups? What about night flight? I am installing dual landing lights? Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135403#135403 9/18/2007 11:53 AM 9/18/2007 11:53 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Spencer" <jpspencer(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re:Engines
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Ralph I'm curious to know more about the reliability of the 912 in your area-could you tell us more? thanks Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Reconsideration of mission + intro (long)
Hi Sean, I would normally reply off-list for this kind of question. However, my first reply may be of interest to others. If you want to continue corresponding with me over this question, please write directly to me. I have two big suggestions for you. The first is to evaluate the MISSION you have for an airplane. The second is to forget using a home built airplane for your own primary pilot training. There are many different ways a person might use an airplane. However, at this stage they break down into two conflicting choices. The question is do you want to fly around in the local area and possibly make use of your back yard or some other small airfield or do you want to fly long distances economically. A CH701 is designed to operate from very short and possibly soft fields. It is a poor choice for long distance travel. The CH801 is a very similar plane, from the mission standpoint, but has 4 seats instead of 2. A CH601XL, the current version of a Zodiac, is a fine cross country flyer with severe limits in the number of seats and baggage allowance. It must be operated from real airports, but doesn't require as much runway as larger certified planes. Grass runways are fine for the XL, but they need to be long and smooth compared to the needs for the 701. I am not aware of any low to moderate cost plane design that can really fill both missions described above well. If you are not yet a pilot, you probably don't really know which of the above missions you prefer to conquer. There are many other things you might learn as you learn to fly. Each airplane design flies significantly differently from all other airplane designs. This is significant to experienced pilots and generally unknown to non-pilots. Before spending a lot of money and time on your own plane it is very sensible to try it out first and see how it fits your own personal tastes. Building your own airplane with the idea you will use it for primary pilot training has lots of problems. The first, and perhaps most significant, is that you can't perform the test described above. If you are not already a pilot, you can't fly a candidate airplane to see if you like it or not. Perhaps the other big problem with building a plane to use for primary training is you won't be able to do the test flights for the plane. Before a plane can be used for "Fun" flying it must go through a rigorous and LONG test program. This can take a minimum of 40 hours of flight and might take longer. Before completing this "Phase I" flight test program, the plane can't be used for flight training or anything else. So not only can't you do the flight testing, you will need to find someone else to do the first year or so of flying in the airplane you just spent several years building. Only after the testing is complete can you start your own pilot training. Then you might find it impossible to get any licensed instructor to fly in your experimental plane and teach you to fly. The bottom line of all this is that I think you should consider doing your pilot training in rented airplanes. You can find such planes at nearly any airport and also find instructors willing and able to teach you in them. Today, they will probably be older certified planes such as Cessnas and Pipers. In the (hopefully) near future you will be able to train in Light Sport Airplanes as they become available in your local area. You may be able to save a little on the rental fees for these planes but probably not very much. The reason is they are mostly brand new airplanes while the other ones are typically at least 30 years old. When it comes time to buy your own plane, the LSA choice becomes more practical. You can get a new LSA for around $100,000 or build your own from a kit for around half that price. I wish you luck in your flying adventure. Paul XL fuselage At 06:53 PM 9/19/2007, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >I've been doing research about AB-EX planes for nearly a year now >and was CONVINCED a Sonex w/Aerovee was MY airplane. I live in CO >and figured I could just use the wonderfully long runways we have >here in the USA to overcome any DA problems. With the FAA >restructuring, this may no longer be the case. I'm not a rich man >by any means but have always managed to have "big-boy toys" >around... motorcycles, 4x4's, what have you. However, I sure can't >afford to purchase and fly most any certified aircraft, therefore >AB-EX. User fees would be hard to pay on principle, let alone >practical financial means. > >Oh, I am a non-pilot who last acted as PIC 22 years ago when I was >in high school. I understand that either the Sonex or just about >any Heintz design would suffice for primary training. Any of the >Sonex, 601 or 701 should be enough airplane for me to enjoy flying >for years. The added safety of a STOL configuration is a >bonus. I've read lots of reports of "stupid pilot tricks" and have >thought, "Wow, I could make that mistake!" As far as I understand, >there have been no fatalities in 21 years of CH 701 flying. > >So... if I can operate a CH701 from a football field, I figure I can >find somewhere to fly it from for Saturday afternoon fun >flights. My mission basically includes: > >- Day/(occasional) Night VFR >- 2up, full fuel, camping gear. >- tie down outside in CO in flying season, trailer able for backyard storage. >- low fuel consumption and *maintenance* costs. >- mainly "sunday flying" with the occasional camping XC >- ability to attend fly-ins > >and now possibly.... > >- off airport operation >- float operation > > >To the questions: > >1 - What's it really like to cruise at 85mph? Obviously you're not >going to be hanging with a group of RV's when going to a pancake >breakfast. At 85mph does that pancake breakfast turn into a pancake lunch? > >2 - The Rotax. Good lord are these things expensive. I've looked >on Barnstormers for only a week but there just aren't any 912 or >912s motors available used. Is there an economical way to get into >the Rotax? > >2 (supplemental) - I don't mind spending money on my own education >("Rotax school") nearly as much as spending it on material >goods. i.e. I'd be confident in buying a 1/3 "used up" Rotax and >the education required to maintain/troubleshoot/overhaul it for the >same price as a new Rotax *if* the rebuild costs aren't extreme. > >3 - How much is a complete overhaul for the Rotax? How about a top >end? I've seen some really scary unsubstantiated rumors about $3000 >cranks for the 912? That's insanity when I could rebuild a VW four >times for that much money. > >4 - The alternates. I understand that there are some Corvair CH 701 >being built. Does the designer condone these installations? Being >my very first airplane I'm not really looking to experiment, I want >to follow a proven path. > >5 - The 801. These things look like an incredible aircraft. 801 >proponents, please feel free to try to convince me to take the extra >training and get a medical to break from the SP regulations! :) I >have simply discounted 4-up flight from my mission for economy. > >So anyway, HI! I'll be using the matronics forum to view and >participate in this list. > >-------- >-- >Sean Moore >... re-evaluating mission ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Engines
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Don, I chose the Jab3300 for my XL and now have 290 flight hours on it in the past two years. I have not had any problems or issues with the Jab engine* or any problems with support from Jabiru USA. The exception is that during hot weather, in the 90ies, I can not hold low airspeed, full - power for a long period without approaching or going redline on my CHT. That said, the latest Jab 3300 engines have among other improvements, better cooling with more fin area. The engine is easy to work on and the effort required for the recommended preventative maintenance is easy. *I did have to replace a failed oil pressure sender a few months ago (bought replacement cheap at local NAPA auto parts store). Failure mode was that it showed high oil pressure, even when the engine was shut down. Other than HP and low weight relative to HP, two of the main reasons I chose the Jab over the Rotax were: 1. It sounds like an airplane engine and is smooth. No gear box whine because it is direct drive. (I know -- not a really GOOD reason, but I do hear, "That engine sure sounds nice- what is it?) and 2. It can use a continuous diet of 100LL (usually found at all airports) or hi-octane MOGAS (usually found at all service stations cheaper that AVGAS , but not at most airports), or any combination of MOGAS/AVGAS. I believe the Rotax recommends MOGAS, with AVGAS sparingly, if that is only what is available. I usually fly MOGAS, but keep AVGAS only in my outboard aux tanks because of its better ageing stability, since I rarely use the outboards except on long flights. I also burn off any fresh gas in them down just enough to keep the fuel lines wet. As far as the Jab firewall forward kit for the XL, it was complete and of really good quality. One instrument I bought with the FWF kit from Jab, that I really like, is the Grand Rapids Engine Information System. Ref: http://www.grtavionics.com/ Would I go again with the Jab? - sure would! Tony Graziano 601XL; N493TG ------------------ Subject: Engines From: mosquito56 (mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM) Date: Wed Sep 19 - 4:03 PM I plan on ordering my engine within the next month. I haven't seen this topic for about a year and thought I would start it again for those of us newbies who are too lazy to search the archives. Engine is between Rotax 912 and Jab3300. I own a plane with a Rotax and like their reliablility but I want the extra speed of the Jab but live in a very hot area of the country. Any input would be appreciated. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Jim Pensinger
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Jim Pensinger, please send me an E-Mail offline at HYPERLINK "mailto:pensinger@can-zacaviation.com"pensinger@can-zacaviation.com Mark 9/19/2007 3:59 PM 9/19/2007 3:59 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Electronics
Date: Sep 20, 2007
FOR GYRO INSTRUMENT CHECK OUT AIRCRAFT SPRUCE. I AM USING A DYNON ONLY FOR FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS, ENGINE USES STEAM GUAGES GLENN> Subject: Zenith-List: Electronics> From: mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Da enith-List message posted by: "mosquito56" > > I h ave only been on this forum for a few months and have searched the archives but still have a few questions concerning instruments for the 601xl.> Efis versus standard instruments. I have been reading alot on the electrics pag e about using solid electrics for flight instruments and the dangers if you have a power out situation. > Most of the info here seems to be use the ef is with gyro backups. If I have gyro instruments why do I want an efis, spe aking in a cost effective tone?> I can't seem to get any info on where I ca n buy gyro instruments. I don't wany anything used. A standard 6 pack is wh at I have in mind.> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.> Don> N601NV (Reserved)> 601xl finishing wings> South Texas> > > > > Read this t opic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135372#1 ==================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf =E9. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Zenith Aircraft Co." <info(at)zenithair.com>
Subject: Zenith OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering: Sept. 29 - Updated
Schedule
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Zenith Aircraft Company's OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering Saturday, September 29, 2007 Mexico Memorial Airport, Mexico, Missouri Updated Schedule: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007.html Zenith Aircraft Company's 16th annual OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering is scheduled for Saturday, September 29, 2007, at the factory located at Mexico Memorial Airport in Mexico, Missouri. Aviation enthusiasts, especially builders and owners of Zenith Aircraft kit planes, are invited to drive or fly-in for the day. The Zenith Aircraft kit production facilities will be open for factory tours and Zenith's factory-demonstrator kit aircraft will be on display. Company staff will demonstrate kit production and fabrication techniques used in producing the all-metal kit aircraft parts made at the Zenith Aircraft factory. With our new fall Open Hangar / Fly-In Gathering schedule, we have planned a series of hands-on informational workshops for existing owners and builders, as well as new and potential builders. Starting on Friday afternoon, some of our scheduled activities include: Jabiru engine workshop, presented by Jabiru USA 1:00 - 4:00 pm., Friday, September 28 Hosted by Pete Krotje, owner and director of Jabiru USA, this informative workshop will cover everything you've always wanted to know about operating and maintaining the popular Jabiru 3300 engine. Pete will also explain the engine installation using Jabiru USA's complete firewall-forward accessories package, including engine mount and engine positioning, fuel and oil lines (plumbing), filters and pumps, throttle, carb heat, and mixture controls, baffles, air hoses and boxes, mufflers and exhaust systems, electrical wiring, cowlings, propeller, etc. Pete will also discuss maintenance and operation issues specific to the Jabiru engine. Group size is limited - prior registration is required. Scratch-building basics for Zenith Aircraft designs, by Mark Townsend 1:00 - 4:00 pm., Friday, September 28 If you've always been intrigued about building your own aircraft from just a set of blueprints and forming all the parts yourself, this hands-on workshop is for you! Hosted by Mark Townsend of Can-Zac Aviation (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covers the skills, materials, tools and commitment that is required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 or Zodiac XL, for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics include: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more. Even if you never plan to scratch build your own airplane, this workshop will provide you with a wealth of useful hands-on information. Since the workshop is held at the Zenith Aircraft factory, participants will also be able to compare scratch-building to kit building an aircraft. Group size is limited - prior registration is required. Dinner: Historical Society Fish & Chicken Fry 4:00 - 8:00 pm, Friday, September 28, $8.00 a plate Kettle fried catfish fillets, chicken strips, homemade potato chips, cole slaw, tea and lemonade on the beautiful courtyard of the Audrain County Historical Society Museum Complex. No prior registration required. /// Saturday, September 29, Events and Activities: The Zenith Aircraft factory will be open from 8:00 am - 3:00 pm for self-guided factory tours, demonstrations, and more, throughout the day. 9:00 am & 2:00 pm - S.T.O.L. Flying, presented by Christopher Desmond & Michael Heintz At the morning session, Christopher will lead an informational 'how-to' flying seminar for builders and pilots, and will share how he safely maximizes the performance and utility of his Zenith STOL kitplane. The morning session will be followed at 2:00 pm with a narrated flight demonstration by Michael Heintz in the factory-demonstrator STOL CH 701. Christopher Desmond has logged over 500 hours of flying time in his personal STOL CH 701 over the last two years. Michael Heintz, eldest son of designer Chris Heintz and owner of Quality Sport Planes of northern California, has been flying the STOL CH 701 since the prototype first flew in 1986. Both have been working on producing DVDs featuring the STOL CH 701 in back-country applications. In recent years, they have demonstrated the exceptional short take-off and landing capabilities of the STOL at the Oshkosh, Sun'n Fun, Arlington and Copperstate fly-ins. 10:00 am - Group Photo. Group Photo in front of the Zenith Aircraft factory, including a line-up of all Zenith aircraft flown in for the fly-in gathering as well as the participants of the Open Hangar day. If you plan on flying in your Zenith, don't miss the Group Photo at 10:00 am! 11:00 am - Sport Pilot / Light Sport Aircraft, presented by Earl Downs. Zodiac builder and aviation writer Earl Downs will informally present "everything you've always wanted to know about the FAA's new Sport Pilot certificate." Earl Downs is a well-known aviation writer and publisher, and is one of the best resources available for Sport Pilot. Earl started flying more that 50 years ago and progressed to become an airline transport-rated pilot and served with the training department of a major airline for 23 years. He has logged thousands of hours flying and instructing in light airplanes and is a recognized aviation writer with EAA Sport Pilot and AOPA Flight Training magazines. In 2004 he co-wrote the popular book titled "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Sport Flying" and is the current publisher and owner of The Oklahoma Aviator. 1:00 pm - Registering your Homebuilt Aircraft, presented by Jon Croke. If you've viewed a how-to DVD from HomebuiltHelp.com, you're already familiar with Jon Croke, the producer of the popular series of instructional material on building your own Zenith airplane. Jon is a skilled presenter, and will walk you through each step required to successfully license your experimental amateur homebuilt aircraft with the FAA. This presentation promises to be both informative and entertaining. 2:00 pm - S.T.O.L. Flying, presented by Michael Heintz & Christopher Desmond The afternoon "S.T.O.L. Flying" session will include a narrated flight demonstration of the factory demonstrator STOL CH 701 with the new Rotax 912S engine installation. Come and see Michael demonstrate the aircraft's extreme short take-off and landing capabilities as well as examples of CH 701 slow flight and maneuverability. Activities and displays throughout the day: . Builder Assistance Centers / Quick-Build Kit Distributors: Flight Crafters / Zenith Distributing (Zephyrhills, Florida), Quality Sport Planes (northern California), Silver Sky Aviation (Chandler, Arizona) and now Jerrich Aircraft Company (Dallas, Texas) offer professional builder assistance facilities, as well as Quick Build Kits for both the Zodiac XL and the STOL CH 701. Whether you're a builder who needs the workshop space and/or expertise to help finish an existing kit project, or whether you want to complete your project in just a few months, representatives will be on hand to discuss their services. . Jabiru engines: Pete Krotje / Jabiru USA will be on hand to show you why the Jabiru 3300 engine is the powerplant of choice for most Zodiac XL builders, and he will be available to answer your engine installation, operation, and maintenance questions. . HomebuiltHelp.com offers a complete line of "how-to" videos available on DVD, and will have the DVDs available for preview and purchase. Some of the popular titles include: Metalworking101 with Rudder Workshop, Rotax 912 Installation Tips & Techniques, Weight & Balance101 for Homebuilts, Electrical Wiring101 for your Homebuilt Aircraft, How to License your Homebuilt Aircraft, Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft, and more. HomebuiltHelp.com also offers a full series of DVDs on building the STOL CH 701 kit aircraft, and the all-new Zodiac XL Quick-build Tips & Techniques DVD. . Can-Zac Aviation of Ontario, Canada, manufactures the full line of Zenair floats designed by Chris Heintz. Can-Zac Aviation is also the Canadian distributor for Zenith Aircraft kits and Quick-Build Kits. . Customer Projects: Existing Zenith Aircraft builders and owners enjoy sharing information and details about building and flying their aircraft, and will be available to discuss construction, finishing (paint, upholstery, avionics, alternative engines, etc.) and flying their aircraft creations. Builders and pilots: Bring your photos to share with fellow builders, and let us know if you would like some indoor space for a display or presentation. Kit aircraft fabrication demonstrations: . Cutting and pre-drilling kit parts on the CNC router: . Forming and hand finishing wing ribs and other kit parts . Aircraft aluminum welding demonstrations . We'll also have complete aircraft kits, parts, and Quick-Build Kits on hand to view. Food and refreshments: Local EAA chapter 1225 will provide a complimentary hot lunch at noon on Saturday, September 29, sponsored by Zenith Aircraft Company. Zenith will also have complimentary coffee and donuts available in the morning. Note to builders: Builders can arrange to pick-up parts at the Open Hangar Day if the parts have been ordered, paid for and confirmed prior to the Open Hangar Day. Owners of completed Zenith Aircraft are encouraged to fly-in for the activities and to show off their completed project to fellow builders (we will provide tie-down space and help facilitate ground transportation if possible). Let us know of any special needs or requirements. Builders and Pilots: Please pre-register for the Open Hangar Day and Fly-In Gathering. http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007-register.html There is no charge to attend the Open Hangar Day or related events. Please note that all events are subject to change or cancellation. Please contact us if you have ideas, requests or capabilities to make the fall 2007 Open Hangar and Fly-In Gathering both a fun and educational event. Accommodations: Due to the large number of visitors to Mexico on September 29, local hotels have already filled up quickly. However, there are more hotels in the general area, as well as camping sites. Check the Zenith website for additional information on accommodations. The Audrain County Historical Society is hosting "Walk Back in Time" on September 28 through September 30, 2007, at the historical society's complex in Mexico, Missouri, with seven themed historical camps in a unique reverse timeline. For more information on attending the Open Hangar Day, please call Zenith Aircraft at (573) 581-9000 or the Mexico Airport at (573) 581-0162. Links: Online Open Hangar Day Information: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007.html Online Registration Form: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oh2007-register.html Print: 2007 OPEN HANGAR DAY and Fly-In Gathering Schedule of Events: http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/oh2007-text.pdf Zenith Aircraft Company Mexico Memorial Airport, 5710 E. Liberty Mexico, Missouri 65265 Tel. 573-581-9000 (Mon. - Fri.) e-mail: info(at)zenithair.com http://www.zenithair.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Glenn, which Dynon are you using ? I'm building an RV-8a and nearing the sel ection of instrument phase. Thanks, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: GLENN JOHNSON <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:25 am Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Electronics FOR GYRO INSTRUMENT CHECK OUT AIRCRAFT SPRUCE.=C2- I AM USING A DYNON ONLY FOR FLIGHT INSTRUMENTS, ENGINE USES STEAM GUAGES =C2- GLENN > Subject: Zenith-List: Electronics > From: mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:12:57 -0700 > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > > > I have only been on this forum for a few months and have searched the arch ives but still have a few questions concerning instruments for the 601xl. > Efis versus standard instruments. I have been reading alot on the electric s page about using solid electrics for flight instruments and the dangers if you have a power out situation. > Most of the info here seems to be use the efis with gyro backups. If I hav e gyro instruments why do I want an efis, speaking in a cost effective tone? > I can't seem to get any info on where I can buy gyro instruments. I don't wany anything used. A standard 6 pack is what I have in mind. > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. > Don > N601NV (Reserved) > 601xl finishing wings > South Texas > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135372#135372 > > > > > &====================== > > > Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Caf =C3=A9. Play now! -= - The Zenith-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http ://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Don't forget MGL's Stratomaster line of glass panels: http://www.mglavionics.co.za/ www.stratomaster.com Enigma, Odyssey and Voyager (5 inch, 10 inch and 7 inch screens, respectively) all support external back-up batteries. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
While we're at it, builders should consider the AF-3400 and AF-3500 units from Advanced Flight Systems. The 3400 has a 6.5" diagonal screen, the 3500 has an 8.4 " diagonal screen. Both are available as an EFIS unit, an EIS unit or as a combo. When two units are installed, they are combine-able and swap-able via ethernet link. Both offer internal battery backup and they datalog to an SD card accessible in the panel face of the units.No need for a laptop in the right seat. Dred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: mike macleod <macleod(at)eagle.ca>
Subject: 601XL Rotax 912S Battery Placement
List: I could not find a reference to this in the archives. I had planned to mount my battery (14 lbs) on the firewall but today after weighing my soundproofing (15 lbs not including the foam around the baggage area) and factoring in the additional weight of an in-flight adjustable prop I think I may have to reconsider. (or go on a very serious diet) Questions; 1. For those of you flying with Rotax engines, where did you place the battery? 2. For those with batteries behind the seats, what size cable did you use? 3. For those that added soundproofing, how much did it weigh? (have I gone overboard in my quest for a quiet ride?) Thanks Mike 601XL waiting for Rotax FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Torque Chart
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Ed, I've torn the whole damned shop apart trying to find my chart for bolt torque settings. I think the dog must have ate it. You have one you can fax or e-mail me ? Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody(at)cox.net Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:12 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics While we're at it, builders should consider the AF-3400 and AF-3500 units from Advanced Flight Systems. The 3400 has a 6.5" diagonal screen, the 3500 has an 8.4 " diagonal screen. Both are available as an EFIS unit, an EIS unit or as a combo. When two units are installed, they are combine-able and swap-able via ethernet link. Both offer internal battery backup and they datalog to an SD card accessible in the panel face of the units.No need for a laptop in the right seat. Dred ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Rotax 912S Battery Placement
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Mike, I must ask a question. Have you flown in a XL with a 912 or Jab 3300 ? Neither one is very noisy compared to a PA-28 or a 172. I have only a foam/heat pad on the inside of the fire wall, carpet floor and baggage area and cloth interior wall pads and frankly other than at full power take off you can carry on a conversation without raising your voice. I just can't see why you would want to use up 15 pounds for noise reduction when there just isn't much noise to reduce. Add ANR headsets and the XL is so quite you have to look out the canopy at the prop to be sure the Jab 3300 is running. Just my two cents, but you may be whipping the dog that don't bark, Best regards, Bill of Georgia -----Original Message----- From: mike macleod <macleod(at)eagle.ca> Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 3:12 pm Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Rotax 912S Battery Placement List: I could not find a reference to this in the archives. I had planned to mount my battery (14 lbs) on the firewall but today after weighing my soundproofing (15 lbs not including the foam around the baggage area) and factoring in the additional weight of an in-flight adjustable prop I think I may have to reconsider. (or go on a very serious diet) Questions; 1. For those of you flying with Rotax engines, where did you place the battery? 2. For those with batteries behind the seats, what size cable did you use? 3. For those that added soundproofing, how much did it weigh? (have I gone overboard in my quest for a quiet ride?) Thanks Mike 601XL waiting for Rotax FWF ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: Jim Machin <jim.machin(at)gat.com>
Subject: Re: Torque Chart
You can get it in the latest Construction Standards for Zenair Light Aircraft in the photo update section on the Zenith web site. Jim Machin 601XL quick build /0-200 -Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Torque Chart Ed, I've torn the whole damned shop apart trying to find my chart for bolt torque settings. I think the dog must have ate it. You have one you can fax or e-mail me ? Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody(at)cox.net Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:12 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics While we're at it, builders should consider the AF-3400 and AF-3500 units from Advanced Flight Systems. The 3400 has a 6.5" diagonal screen, the 3500 has an 8.4 " diagonal screen. Both are available as an EFIS unit, an EIS unit or as a combo. When two units are installed, they are combine-able and swap-able via ethernet link. Both offer internal battery backup and they datalog to an SD card accessible in the panel face of the units.No need for a laptop in the right seat. Dred _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci d=A OLAOF00020000000970> ! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Hi Jon Thanks for posting this info. Could you say what size the box for shipping was as if it is a reasonable size may ask them to send one to me over the pond. Best wishes Malcolm Hunt CH601XL builder in England ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Todd's Canopies > > I received a canopy from Todd's a few weeks ago, and thought I'd say > something about it. > > It was packed in a very nice cardboard with wooden frame box, and arrived > without a scratch. The transport company dropped it off at my Door even > though I was warned that they may call me to come pick it up at their > station. > > The canopy was not rolled like the Zenith original, it is full sized and > perfectly molded. > > > Unlike some suppliers, Todd's was prompt and informative along the way. I > never felt like I needed to call to check on status, because he told me > when it would be ready, and shipped, and it was... > > It even came with a nice hat. > > > Highly recommended! > > Jon Burns > 601XL - almost halfway done! > Corvair in pieces! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135408#135408 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2_177.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1_569.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
I have the Zenith supplied pitot with static tube attached and I have run two tubes to the panel. I have decided to use the Zenith supplied tubes and test. That is, I will plumb the pitot to the correct connection and then connect the static to the two ports (in parallel) on the back of the Dynon. From what I read in the install manual, it wants to get static (not dynamic) air and that second tube from Zenith should provide that, without modification, to both ports. If not, where am I going wrong? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135526#135526 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Torque Chart
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
try this http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135534#135534 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronics
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Your own words Don "Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bells and whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enigine monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pitot tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the Inigma.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
There are three ports on the back of the Dynon. Pitot, Static and AOA. The AOA is basically another pitot at another angle so the difference between the two is how the Dynon calcs the angle of attack. If you aren't using the AOA then it isn't a concern. Dave Nixon wrote: > I have the Zenith supplied pitot with static tube attached and I have run two tubes to the panel. I have decided to use the Zenith supplied tubes and test. That is, I will plumb the pitot to the correct connection and then connect the static to the two ports (in parallel) on the back of the Dynon. From what I read in the install manual, it wants to get static (not dynamic) air and that second tube from Zenith should provide that, without modification, to both ports. If not, where am I going wrong? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135551#135551 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg(at)swri.org>
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
Question: you state that the canopy was not rolled like the Zenith one, is there a reason for this ? Is Todd's canopy made from thicker material than the Zenith one? Regards, Maarten Versteeg 601XL plans building wings > Subject: Zenith-List: Todd's Canopies > From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM> > > I received a canopy from Todd's a few weeks ago, and thought I'd say something > about it. > It was packed in a very nice cardboard with wooden frame box, and arrived without > a scratch. The transport company dropped it off at my Door even though I was > warned that they may call me to come pick it up at their station. > > The canopy was not rolled like the Zenith original, it is full sized and perfectly > molded. > ... > > Highly recommended! > > Jon Burns > 601XL - almost halfway done! > Corvair in pieces! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Joe In general the 912 owners seem to have the cowls off and replacing broken engine mounts and airframe components and tweaking things on a more regular basis than Continentals, Lycomings or Jabirus. The example I can be more specific about is a friends 912UL aircraft built and flown in the same timeframe as me, done less than 200 hrs and had the engine removed a number of times. 2 cracked engine mounts, failed gearbox, failed starter sprag, failed water pump seal, failed carb attachments, plus the other SB items that were attended to per manufacturers data. All affected parts were standard kit items and the engine work was done by the agents. You could argue it was a "monday car" but all these thinks are inconvenient and costly especially when youre 500 miles from home and the the only dealer that knows what to do is in 1500 miles away Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135557#135557 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Non-LSA ops limits
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: <Craig.Spainhower(at)exeloncorp.com>
Andy, If you don't care about being LSA compatible you should contact Zenith and get their concurrence on the increased gross weight. At least one lyc powered 601XL has been certified (in Canada) for a 1500' gross weight. I also heard Chris Heintz say the plane can safely fly @ 1500'. Be aware that once a gross weight higher than 1320' has been certified the plane can never be made LSA compatable. Craig S. N601XS, 601xl 0-235 lyc, wiring/plumbing in progress If I plan to certify my plane experimental, but not light sport, what are reasonable values for max gross and G limits? Also, does anyone know if the CG envelope has any gross weight dependence? That is, do the CG limits change with load? Finally, is this information on the ZAC web site somewhere? I couldn't find it. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
From: "smoore" <moore.sean(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
So this brings up an interesting question I've never seen answered. Lets say someone registers the airplane with a 1500lb gross weight. The SP regulations say, "Maximum takeoff weight". If the SP never loads it up beyond 1320lb, is he legal? -------- -- Sean Moore ... re-evaluating mission Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135565#135565 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Todd told me it was thicker and less likely to crack. He also has the thinner plastic that matches the Zenith offering, and can mold the canopy either way. I cannot remember the weight difference, but it was something like 3 pounds. I'd check with him to make sure. Jon Burns Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135566#135566 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
From: "smoore" <moore.sean(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Ugh, nevermind. If my question was legal, any 152 could be flown as a SP. Silly me. -------- -- Sean Moore ... re-evaluating mission Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135567#135567 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
Date: Sep 20, 2007
When I called Todd several months ago, he explained that it was much heavier/stiffer material than the ZAC canopy and not conducive to rolling. I've since missplaced my notes from the discussion but he said it was heavier than the ZAC canopy - can't remember by how much - could have been about 2 pounds, but might have been as much as 6 pounds. Can't recall thickness either. Price, tinted, was $340 + freight. Robin in AR 601XL Zen-Vair, N601ZV reserved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maarten Versteeg" <maarten.versteeg(at)swri.org> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:11 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Todd's Canopies > > > Question: you state that the canopy was not rolled like > the Zenith one, is there a reason for this ? Is Todd's > canopy made from thicker material than the Zenith one? > > Regards, > Maarten Versteeg > 601XL plans building wings > >> Subject: Zenith-List: Todd's Canopies >> From: "jonaburns" <lsapilot(at)HOTMAIL.COM> >> >> I received a canopy from Todd's a few weeks ago, and thought I'd say >> something >> about it. >> It was packed in a very nice cardboard with wooden frame box, and arrived >> without >> a scratch. The transport company dropped it off at my Door even though I >> was >> warned that they may call me to come pick it up at their station. >> >> The canopy was not rolled like the Zenith original, it is full sized and >> perfectly >> molded. > ... >> >> Highly recommended! >> >> Jon Burns >> 601XL - almost halfway done! >> Corvair in pieces! > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Scammers
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Members, I have seen a good many posts concerning the activity of scammers and have this to say about that. Most of the scammers are operating out of the UK or Nigeria. The most common scam is, be our agent un the US. They send money orders to you from their clients here in the US telling you that US Money orders cannot be cashed outside of the country and this is true. They ask you to go to your bank deposit the money orders, take out 10% send the rest of the money to them. In all cases the money orders are no good and the local US Post Office has a little hand held machine that they use to prove they are no good. The name of the game is, if you receive funds from anyone claiming anything, make sure the instrument is good before you do anything else. You will find that in l00% of the time it's nothing but an attempt to cheat you out of your money. Honest people are the easiest people to cheat because they think because they are honest, everyone else is too. Tracy Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Scammers
Date: Sep 20, 2007
I apologize for perpetuating a topic probably not appropriate to this list, but would encourage all to adopt my policy concerning these scammers. My policy is turn the tables on'm and hit'm in the pocketbook, so to speak. It only takes a second to respond to their emails and say yes send me the money. But they have a considerable investment of time and money in delivering. If everyone did this, they soon would have their expenses exceeding their income. Of the many thousands of dollars of these funny money money orders in my collection, all are sent by expensive overnight delivery from the U.S., or at a minimum international postal rate (mostly from UK), all for about the second it takes me to say yes at no expense whatever to me, and hardly any more time than it takes to delete the message. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scammers Members, I have seen a good many posts concerning the activity of scammers and have this to say about that. Most of the scammers are operating out of the UK or Nigeria. The most common scam is, be our agent un the US. They send money orders to you from their clients here in the US telling you that US Money orders cannot be cashed outside of the country and this is true. They ask you to go to your bank deposit the money orders, take out 10% send the rest of the money to them. In all cases the money orders are no good and the local US Post Office has a little hand held machine that they use to prove they are no good. The name of the game is, if you receive funds from anyone claiming anything, make sure the instrument is good before you do anything else. You will find that in l00% of the time it's nothing but an attempt to cheat you out of your money. Honest people are the easiest people to cheat because they think because they are honest, everyone else is too. Tracy Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks
Apparently it didn't come through. I mentioned that zinc-oxide is one alternative to the chromate based primer and is more readily available, supposedly safer too. Art Robert Loer wrote: Great message. Too bad it was blank when it got to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Art Olechowski To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Slightly off topic: No more Zinc Chromate from Wicks href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Scammers
Date: Sep 20, 2007
Robert, I beg to differ ,You can't cheat a honest man....a honest man is not looking for something for nothing and doesn't have the greed factor of trying to get the edge or a real deal. most honest people just want what is rightfull there's.. Thanks, Joe N101HD ----- Original Message From: robert stone To: Zenith list Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scammers Members, I have seen a good many posts concerning the activity of scammers and have this to say about that. Most of the scammers are operating out of the UK or Nigeria. The most common scam is, be our agent un the US. They send money orders to you from their clients here in the US telling you that US Money orders cannot be cashed outside of the country and this is true. They ask you to go to your bank deposit the money orders, take out 10% send the rest of the money to them. In all cases the money orders are no good and the local US Post Office has a little hand held machine that they use to prove they are no good. The name of the game is, if you receive funds from anyone claiming anything, make sure the instrument is good before you do anything else. You will find that in l00% of the time it's nothing but an attempt to cheat you out of your money. Honest people are the easiest people to cheat because they think because they are honest, everyone else is too. Tracy Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Engines
Date: Sep 21, 2007
I am unfamiliar with the lycoming , Continential engines but here in australia most people swear by rotax 912. Many many jabiru's seem to need constant maintainance valves etc and more, especially the earlier models 2200. They seem to be getting better with time. Graeme Cairns ----- Original Message ----- From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:17 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Engines > > Joe In general the 912 owners seem to have the cowls off and replacing > broken engine mounts and airframe components and tweaking things on a more > regular basis than Continentals, Lycomings or Jabirus. > > The example I can be more specific about is a friends 912UL aircraft built > and flown in the same timeframe as me, done less than 200 hrs and had the > engine removed a number of times. 2 cracked engine mounts, failed gearbox, > failed starter sprag, failed water pump seal, failed carb attachments, > plus the other SB items that were attended to per manufacturers data. All > affected parts were standard kit items and the engine work was done by the > agents. You could argue it was a "monday car" but all these thinks are > inconvenient and costly especially when youre 500 miles from home and the > the only dealer that knows what to do is in 1500 miles away > > Ralph > > -------- > Ralph - CH701 / 2200a > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135557#135557 > > > -- > 20/09/2007 12:07 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Doug I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and the dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith, CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension. More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of incidence of the wing. Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing are 83deg and 75.5deg. This is why there is a difference in cof g limits, according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz. My view when it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings! Best regards Malcolm Hunt CH601XL Plans builder in England. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non-LSA ops limits > > As to the Cg limitation, I asked the guys at Zenith this very question a > couple of months ago. The answer was that the Cg limits do not vary with > loading, although if you do a search on this board, someone posted some > English certifications that did, indeed, vary the Cg limits with weight. > This was with the CZAW built plane though, I believe, and they mount the > engine considerably further forward, or that is my understanding. > > Doug > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135371#135371 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Non-LSA ops limits
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Malcolm, I'd be very interested in what the CZAW drawings actually do show for the Rotax mount. I got my info from a earlier post last year on this thread about a guy moving his engine forward to correct the rearward weight bias of the Rotax 601XL via use of the CZAW mount. Caleb at Zenith also confirmed this to me in some correspondence at the first of this year. He indicated at that time (January), that the lightweight FF Rotax package would mount further forward and told me just to sit tight for a bit. I still have the email. Do me a favor, search this forum for posts with my user name (dfmoeller). At the bottom of the list look at these threads: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=24172&highlight New "European XL" from Zenith? http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=11210&highlight Weight & Balance I'm really curious now just what the deal actually is. I am in the middle of a large rebuilding project on mine and was hoping to rectify the weight issue by mounting the engine further forward. I also would really like to know how the new lightweight engine mount is formed. Take my word for it, if you are scratchbuilding, do everything you can to put a forward bias on the weight. Also, if using the Zenith gear, mount them in the forward position. Any chance you could scan a section of the CZAW drawings? Doug malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbus wrote: > Doug > > I have looked at the two sets of drawings (Zenith v CZAW) and the > dimensions of the CZAW engine mount (Rotax) are almost identical the Zenith, > CZAW do have an aluminium prop extension. > > More of interest is that the CZAW aircraft have a different angle of > incidence of the wing. Looking at drawing 6-B-13 and the wing template the > angles on the Zenith drawing are 81deg and 77.5 deg but on the CZAW drawing > are 83deg and 75.5deg. This is why there is a difference in cof g limits, > according to UK agent this had been agreed with Chris Heintz. My view when > it comes to aerodynamics in all cases Build to the Drawings! > Best regards > > Malcolm Hunt > > CH601XL Plans builder in England. > > --- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135634#135634 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2007
From: "Paul Tipton" <PTIPTON(at)swmail.sw.org>
Subject: Re: Engines
Rotax 912ULS - 150 hours - changed oil at 25, 50, 100 and 150 hours. Changed plugs at 50, 100, and 150 hours... probably overkill. It has never run hot, never added oil, never missed a beat, no failed anything. 321PT CH701 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Electronics
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Bill, I can't comment on performance as I have not hooked it up yet. I was shocked when I took it out of the box and pressed a button and it came to life. I had forgotten about the installed battery backup. I can say that I was impressed with the clarity and brightness. Also, it looks big enough for me. I am considering a few smaller than normal backups. Tach, oil pressure...Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135670#135670 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Electronics
<<, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I>>>> Four feet sounds like LOT! You could never reach it without getting out of your seat! Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Bill-- I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and the D 180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and EFIS ba ckup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 from the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. George May 601XL 912s 150hrs ested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and the eyeball to panel distance is almost f our feet. I don't want to be squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won' t keep up with a plane doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. Th at it is too slow and is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had th e opportunity to talk to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr . Dynon a bunch of money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backu p steam gages and such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not arch ive-----Original Message-----From: Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net>To: zenit h-list(at)matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics Your own words Don "Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, But the jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. Bell s and whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined EFIS/enig ine monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, pito t tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying to sell Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the Inigma.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _________________________________________________________________ More photos; more messages; more whatever ' Get MORE with Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE. NOW with 5GB storage. ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Reconsideration of mission + intro (long)
smoore wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've been doing research about AB-EX planes for nearly a year now and was CONVINCED a Sonex w/Aerovee was MY airplane. I live in CO and figured I could just use the wonderfully long runways we have here in the USA to overcome any DA problems. > > - Day/(occasional) Night VFR > - 2up, full fuel, camping gear. > - tie down outside in CO in flying season, trailer able for backyard storage. > - low fuel consumption and *maintenance* costs. > - mainly "sunday flying" with the occasional camping XC > - ability to attend fly-ins > > Sean Moore > ... re-evaluating mission > Sean, 1. With a 701, you're going to have to start much earlier in the morning for that fly-in breakfast if you want to eat with the RV pilots. 2. The Rotax is a good engine, yes expensive, periodically troublesome for people who don't enjoy knowing engines. No economy here. Try Jabaru 2200. 2-s Costs for parts-Rotax are in keeping with Lyc and Cont. But, you'll have to self educate to survive any engine, air or water cooled. 3. Better to buy a used VW or new Jabaru 2200 or HKS. 4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use in a 701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which the 701 doesn't. Lots of alternate engines out there, only a few that are sized and priced right. 5. The 801 needs 135 hp or more to fly well and it might just as well be a Lyc, or an auto conversion, but then you'll have to pay a lot more attention to details for cooling, fuel mixture, ignition and mounting. Still, there's a lot positive to be said about water cooled alternatives and you'd still need to study a bit. 6. Do get the private licence, bust your budget and go for it. You'll not be sorry. Comment: I believe you should buy an aircraft like a T-craft or Luscombe or whatever and fly it for the license and then sell it when you decide on the best candidate for your flying needs. Then you'll know enough to bounce the questions off your own experience. Building is a big deal, that you haven't mentioned, much bigger deal than you know. It can bite you if you're not prepared for a project. Good luck, Larry McFarland 601HDS plans built at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sep 21, 2007
I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement. But I don't know for sure. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Engine Comparison
Date: Sep 21, 2007
Some of you already know that I have had 3 different engines on my Zodiac (CH601HD) . The current engine is a Jabiru 3300 and I just took the plane out of Phase 1 testing. To celebrate, I took my wife on a short cross country to to Fredericksburg TX (T82) for lunch. They have a nice diner and a hotel on the field. The first engine was a VW with a redrive. The VW may work for other airframes, but I think most would be disappointed with it. A Corvair is cheaper and provides much more power. My highest speed with the VW was just under 90 mph. Others have had slightly better speeds without the redrive, but their takeoff roll is much longer. The redrive provided a very short takeoff roll and a very fast climb to 1000' AGL, then you had to back off the throttle to let the engine cool down. Any attempt to climb after that was done in small steps or a very gradually. The Corvair and the Jabiru 3300 are very similar in performance. My WOT speed seem to be about 5 mph faster with the Jabiru @ 127 mph. I usually cruised at 3000 rpm when I had the Corvair installed. My cruise speed was usually around 107-110 mph. The Jabiru is getting about the same speed at 2850 rpm. Fuel burn seems to be similar. On my trip to T82 today, I stayed pretty close to 3000 rpm and the fuel burn was 6.8 gph. I don't have a fuel flow sender. Fuel burn is calculated by sticking the tanks after flying. I'm not sure why, but the Jab has a bit longer take off roll. That might be due to my foot having to be firmly planted on the right rudder pedal because of P- factor. I don't have sufficient offset in the engine mount and I need a lot of right rudder when taking off. After I level off, it's not a problem. I had a lot of offset on the Corvair, so P-factor wasn't a problem. Weight appears to be the biggest difference. My plane lost just over 70 lbs with the change to the Jabiru. My wallet got much lighter too. The Jabiru seems to be more sensitive to cooling. I think some of that lies in the cowling design especially in climb. The top of the cowl openings slope backwards and I think the air skips over the cowl instead of being forced in. I have heard that someone attached some Plexiglas deflectors to scoop air when in a climb. I plan on making some after I get some paint on the cowl. Carbs--I am not impressed with the Bing. Mine had the economy tuning kit installed. My EGT's were uneven and would go too high if I let the rpm drop below 2850. CHT's were difficult to keep under control. The plugs always looked like the mixture was too rich. I put my Ellison on and everything changed. I can enrichen or lean the mixture to keep the EGT's at 1350-1400 F in cruise or WOT. CHT's are running around 280-290 F except on the front 2 cylinders. They frequently run around 315 F. I don't see why they would be the hottest. I noticed that most people have a piece of sheet metal mounted vertical in front of those 2 cylinders and it is nearly the same height as the cylinder. I need to duplicate that to see if it makes a difference. My Plexiglas deflectors may also help when I get them installed. I'm planning on flying to Copperstate next month, then on to Las Vegas. If everything goes as planned, I hope to be arriving at the air show, late Thursday, then departing Saturday afternoon for Vegas. Hope to see you all there. Randy Stout San Antonio TX <http://www.geocities.com/n282rs> www.geocities.com/n282rs n282rs at satx.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2007
From: Tim Shankland <tshankland(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
Dave, The way the AOA works is by doing a sum of the vector magnitudes of two pitots. If there is no difference in the orientation of the probes you cannot resolve that angle. The AOA does not use the static port that is used for airspeed the AOA uses the differential between the two probes. The AOA is not measuring the airspeed but the angle at which the air is approaching the wing. This angle can be correlated with the stall of the wing. Tim Shankland Dave Nixon wrote: > >I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without adding another pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would fullfill this requirement. But I don't know for sure. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
I don't have my Dynon unit yet, but I've been doing research and actually purchased the combo pitot/AOA probe from them. Don't confuse the static source and the AOA portion of the probe. They are completely different in size, shape and orientation. As I understand it, the AOA computation is derived solely from inputs from the pitot tube (horizontal) and the AOA port tube (pointed approx. 45 degrees down), both located in the same combo probe. The pressure differential mirrors what is happening with the wing. Your static source is a different animal and can be achieved in several ways, but they are not related to AOA. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair On 9/21/07, Dave Nixon wrote: > > > I guess the point is that I want to use the AOA on the Dynon without > adding another pitot. Will not the static tube that Zenith provided work > for the AOA on the Dynon? Reqading the Duynon test procedures, it just > 'senses' the difference between dynamic and static in different settings so > that it tells the on board computer what is going on in different flight > configurations. I believe that the Zenith supplied static tube would > fullfill this requirement. But I don't know for sure. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135692#135692 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: MGL Avionics Enigma
Hello Everyone, I have the opportunity to purchase a MGL Avionics Enigma EFIS for a very good price. I like what I've seen so far on the company website, but I'd like to hear from anyone who owns this unit or has seen it in action? Any observations, thoughts or opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Shane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Loer" <rloer(at)aceweb.com>
Subject: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power
Date: Sep 21, 2007
IT WAS WRITTEN: > 4. Corvair is too small for an 801 and too large for practical use in a > 701. You need cooling speed to keep the Corvair healthy which the 701 > doesn't. Lets not count out the Corvair yet in the 701. William Wynne in Florida and his crew that have been very successful with the 601 have a 701 under construction with a Corvair mounted. In a few months we will have real world experience. Robert Loer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: MGL Avionics Enigma
Date: Sep 22, 2007
I have one but have not flown it yet. Consider asking your question on the Stratomaster user-to-user group on Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stratomaster_users_group/join Depending on where you live you may be able to see one near you. Also there is an interesting thread on the Van's Air Force forum with two guys at the same airport: one installing an Enigma and the other a Dynon: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?postid=154444#poststop And of course you can download the simulator/screen-designer and play with Enigma on your PC: http://www.mglavionics.co.za/Software/EnigmaSimulator.exe -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jabiru 2200A and Ch 701
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Sorry for taking so long to reply...I lost my password. The kit is available for both engines as stated in the link. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135738#135738 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Thanks. Now I get it. So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results. then I can add a static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the fuselage. Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135741#135741 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
From: "Dave Nixon" <adnasap(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Thanks, Larry. See my previous response to Tim. Your info has helped immensely. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135742#135742 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AOA for your Dynon
In theory, that could work. You might want to check with Dynon for specs on the angle, distance between ports, etc. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair On 9/22/07, Dave Nixon wrote: > > > Thanks. Now I get it. So I can modify the Zenith Static probe ( cut off > the plug and bend down 45 degrees approximate and plug the small static > ports drilled into the tube) to get the desired results. then I can add a > static system similar to what Cessna has on the sides of the > fuselage. Thanks for the input which should eliminate hours of aggravation. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135741#135741 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 cowl tank addition?
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
High all, I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135746#135746 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 701 cowl tank addition?
Date: Sep 22, 2007
When you buy your plans you will have a serial # and access to builders Support and the builders area on the website. We provide builders support, but do not provide details on scratch building, that is part of your learning. Going through the plans and making your own decisions on material. This is part of plans building. Learning the process of metalworking and what you can or cannot do. The EAA and RAA are great tools for learning this information. Also take a trip over to www.homebuilthelp.com and pick up the scratch builders DVD, also download AC43 this is the law to building a plane. Buying a kit gives you the great adventure to have your flying plane, plans building is for those who consider the building portion as important and the flying aspect, sometimes even more important, it is because you are going to learn the properties of the metal, the bending and forming. You will make tools to perform this work. Sometimes you will spend as much time woodworking as you will be bending a piece of metal. IT is a great adventure. As for the fuel system in a 701, they used to come with a optional smaller header tank and two wing tanks. I am not sure if Zenith willl still make the older header tank, but you should be able to find one out their. In fact I have just removed one out of mine along with the control panel. I will be replacing the 5 gal wing tanks with the 10 gal ones and not installing a header tank. I have a major aversion to fuel in my lap. I may sell the wing/header tanks and panel ( which has all the hook ups for the header tank) These units have never been used, they were installed 14 years ago but the plane sat unfinished in a barn for 13 years. They are chromated and clean. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccune Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition? High all, I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135746#135746 9/21/2007 2:02 PM 9/21/2007 2:02 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: 701 cowl tank addition?
Hi Kevin, Zenith supports a scratch builder so long as you buy the plans so they can provide you a serial number for your aircraft. Build a rudder from plans and work from there. If you feel things going too slowly, buy the kit that keeps it going. To save real money, use the plans to scratch build the parts that you mess up. I wouldn't put a fuel tank in the cowl because it would have to share space with an engine and its exhaust system. Zenith has always been willing to sell singular kit or parts as needed to the scratch or plans builder. Excellent support! Larry McFarland 601HDS plans built at www.macsmachine.com kmccune wrote: > > High all, > > I have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I should kit build or scratch build... But I have a question for future reference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be put in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the fight time, or at least a reserve? > > Does Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but you need a serial number to access it. > > Sorry for all the questions... I'm a little eager :^) > > -------- > Kevin > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WHC228(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Subject: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power
Corvairs on Pietenpols often had the original cooling system too. Billl C 601xl Lyc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WHC228(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Subject: Re: Engine Comparison
I would like to see some comments on using an O235 Lycoming. I recently bought an engine, and am wondering why no one seems to be talking about these engines. They seem to be reasonable to buy, have a good TBO, and plenty of power. The only thing that is negative is the weight. Bill 601XL 0235 wings & tail done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Engine Comparison
Hi Bill, I don't have experience with the Lycoming engine, but I have been comparing results from different engine choices for a long while now. The weight is indeed the biggest issue with both the Lycoming and Continental engines. This might not be such an issue if you have a lot of excess capacity in your plane. However, if you are trying to meet the LSA requirements, as I am, then the extra 100 pounds or so really limits the size of people and the amount of baggage you can haul. I have never heard exactly how much excess weight penalty there is on the older engines. While some weights are published, I thing there are large differences in the included equipment from one specification to another. It is the total installed weight with all accessories that matters. I think the 170 pound per person allowance for both baggage and human weight on the new Cessna 162 is heavily influenced by the engine choice. I guess the bottom line is that you should consider what size people will be in your plane and how much baggage and fuel you want to carry before installing one of the older and heavier engines. Paul XL fuselage At 08:45 AM 9/22/2007, you wrote: >I would like to see some comments on using an O235 Lycoming. >I recently bought an engine, and am wondering why no one seems to be >talking about these engines. >They seem to be reasonable to buy, have a good TBO, and plenty of power. >The only thing that is negative is the weight. > >Bill >601XL >0235 >wings & tail done ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First flight, test pilot, dual time
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
So after Jan 2008 it has to be registered as a S-LSA then converted... how does this affect my ability to perform maintenance on it? Assuming I have taken the 16 hr class? -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135769#135769 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
So after Jan 2008 I can no longer register a 701 as an E-LSA? But I can convert it? Additionally do I then have to take additional instruction to do the anual inspection and annual maintenance even if its an E-LSA? Its all so confusing :? -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135775#135775 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New 95hp engine design.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
I just received an email from UL power with a brochure and price list. The engine has 95 hp at 3300rpm, but better yet has about 145 to 150ft-lbs of torque between 2500 and 3300 rpm. Your don't have to rev it all the way up ya know. It is direct drive and fuel injected. The price at present is $16,800 US. -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135797#135797 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ul260_folder_v7_usa1_1_784.doc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 701 cowl tank addition?
you can also download the AC65-9, -12, and -15. These are the handbooks for the A&P mechanic.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvai r=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: ZodieRocket <zodierocket@h sfx.ca>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, September 22, 200 7 10:25:21 AM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition?=0A=0A=0A- When you buy your plans you will have a serial # and access to builders=0AS upport and the builders area on the website. We provide builders=0Asupport, but do not provide details on scratch building, that is part of=0Ayour lea rning. Going through the plans and making your own decisions on=0Amaterial. This is part of plans building. Learning the process of=0Ametalworking and what you can or cannot do. The EAA and RAA are great=0Atools for learning this information. Also take a trip over to=0Awww.homebuilthelp.com and pick up the scratch builders DVD, also=0Adownload AC43 this is the law to build ing a plane. Buying a kit gives=0Ayou the great adventure to have your flyi ng plane, plans building is for=0Athose who consider the building portion a s important and the flying=0Aaspect, sometimes even more important, it is b ecause you are going to=0Alearn the properties of the metal, the bending an d forming. You will=0Amake tools to perform this work. Sometimes you will s pend as much time=0Awoodworking as you will be bending a piece of metal. IT is a great=0Aadventure.=0A=0AAs for the fuel system in a 701, they used to come with a optional=0Asmaller header tank and two wing tanks. I am not su re if Zenith willl=0Astill make the older header tank, but you should be ab le to find one out=0Atheir. In fact I have just removed one out of mine alo ng with the=0Acontrol panel. I will be replacing the 5 gal wing tanks with the 10 gal=0Aones and not installing a header tank. I have a major aversion to fuel=0Ain my lap.=0AI may sell the wing/header tanks and panel ( which has all the hook ups=0Afor the header tank) These units have never been use d, they were=0Ainstalled 14 years ago but the plane sat unfinished in a bar n for 13=0Ayears. They are chromated and clean.=0A=0A=0AMark Townsend=0ACan -Zac Aviation Ltd.=0Apresident@can-zacaviation.com=0Awww.can-zacaviation.co m =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-zenith-list-server@matroni cs.com=0A[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccu ne=0ASent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:43 AM=0ATo: zenith-list@matronics .com=0ASubject: Zenith-List: 701 cowl tank addition?=0A=0A--> Zenith-List m essage posted by: "kmccune" =0A=0AHigh all,=0A=0AI have not started to build yet as I'm still trying to decide if I=0Ashould kit b uild or scratch build... But I have a question for future=0Areference. The older 701s had a cowl tank only? Could a smaller tank be=0Aput in the cowl to be used as a header tank and add an hour of so to the=0Afight time, or a t least a reserve?=0A=0ADoes Zenith support scratch builders? They seem to have a help area but=0Ayou need a serial number to access it.=0A=0ASorry fo r all the questions... I'm a little eager :^)=0A=0A--------=0AKevin=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view topic.php?p=135746#135746=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A9/21/2007 2:02 PM =========================0A =============0A=0A=0A =0A____________________ ________________________________________________________________=0AGot a li arch.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs= bz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Subject: Re: 701 cowl tank addition?
Hi Kevin: I am building a CH701, I chose to go the kit route as I did not want to take an extended time to get flying. When you buy the plans from the Zenith factory you will get a serial number. I have found the factory to be extremely helpful. The best way, I have found, to get fast replies is to phone the factory. You will have to persevere when you want to talk to them as they do not use an answering machine. Sometimes they will ask you to email them after a phone conversation. John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 and E-LSA and S-LSA and maintenance
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
Thanks, I was HOPING for an answer like this! The sport pilot part was never a question, but the experimental part along with the who can do what part to the airplane, was a little, OK way foggy! Thanks -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135811#135811 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Reconsideration of mission and corvair power
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Sep 22, 2007
The modified 701 on the ZAC website has already been trialed and the Corvair is being removed for sale to being replaced a smaller engine. Sorry I dont know whether it was a compliance issue or flying issue. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135823#135823 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 22, 2007
The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a small window behind the seat. Thanks Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > if you are refering to the panel that was put on the zenith website, that > is me. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> >>Sent: Sep 22, 2007 7:56 PM >>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >> >> >>Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super >>custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >> >> >>> >>> no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. >>> >>> Juan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> >>>>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>> >>>> >>>>Bill-- >>>> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and >>>> the >>>> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and >>>> EFIS >>>> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 >>>> from >>>> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. >>>> >>>>George May >>>>601XL 912s 150hrs >>>> >>>> >>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: >>>>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: >>>>japhillipsga(at)aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm >>>>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and >>>>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be >>>>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run >>>>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >>>>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow >>>>and >>>>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to >>>>talk >>>>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of >>>>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages >>>>and >>>>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not >>>>archive-----Original >>>>Message-----From: Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net>To: >>>>zenith-list(at)matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: >>>>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>> >>>>Your own words Don >>>>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, >>>>But >>>>the >>>>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " >>>> >>>>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. >>>>Bells and >>>>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined >>>>EFIS/enigine >>>>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, >>>>pitot >>>>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying >>>>to >>>>sell >>>>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >>>>Inigma.....Geoff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >>>>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >>>>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 22, 2007
> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a small window behind the seat. I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil: http://www.airfox.com.br -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Thanks Craig, thats the one, only trouble is it's in spanish and all spanish is greek to me.. I tried to click it to english ,but it would 't work.Thank's again. I've put it on my favorites.I've Got to have a set of those wing tips there suppose to slow landing even more ,plus lights in the tips and they look hot. Joe N101HD 601 XL P.S> wing roots look better too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:56 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > >> The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing >> tips,and > a small window behind the seat. > > I think you are referring to Roberto Brito's plane in Brazil: > http://www.airfox.com.br > > -- Craig > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 23, 2007
> only trouble is it's in spanish and all spanish is greek to me. Actually it is in Portuguese. Google can translate it for you (sort of): http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airfox.com.br%2F&la ngpair=pt%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools or as a tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/2f6a6n Roberto posts on this list occasionally. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: Chris Ross <coross(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 09/22/07
Does anyone on the list have experience with the Ram Subarus? I have seen many mentions of Stratus, but fewer of the Ram shop. I would be interested in hearing how they perform in "real life". Thanks. Chris Ross At 01:58 AM 9/23/2007, you wrote: >You should try a Ram built Subaru .100,130,140,or the Ram 250 Superchareged >that ,ought to rip that 701's wings off with the 130 all of his engines are >dynoed, so we are talking true HP. Not to mention he's been at it for 25 >years, that always help's a little too.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lautenschlager" <davidl409(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Transponder antenna location forward of center section
Date: Sep 23, 2007
I'm building a 601XL from kit and at about 85% complete. I am looking for a good place to install the transponder antenna forward of the center section. I have installed the gascolator just in front of the center section in the middle so that area isn't available. Will the nose gear block reception if I locate behind it? David Lautenschlager Mobile, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?
From: "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)TELUS.NET>
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Hi everyone, Just wanted to post an update and ask a few more questions. I've received my Homebuilt Help DVD's and watched them many times over and the process looks doable. I've built a work table and have scrounged a bunch of metal to build a brake. I've ordered and received the 701 info pack from Can-Zac and it looks good. The guy I talked to at Can-Zac mentioned they may be having a rudder workshop in Edmonton which is fairly close to me so I am thinking about attending it. I just have a few more questions, the main thing that concerns me is the high cost of the Rotax 912, I don't think I can afford to spend $15000 on an engine. I see that the 701 used to be powered by a Rotax 582, would that be a better option for me given my tight budget? I see 582's on Barnstormers for $3000 to $4000 quite regularly. I hardly ever see used 912's for sale in the couple months I've been looking. The performance wouldn't be as good as the 912, but there are a lot of old certified airplanes with the same gross weight as the 701 that fly on 65 HP... Taylorcraft's, Champ's, Cub's, Luscombe's, Vagabond's, etc. My next question has to do with the test flying process... assuming I go ahead with the project and build an airplane, then go out and get licensed, I would think that as a low-time pilot and first time builder I wouldn't be very well qualified to be the test pilot. How do you go about finding someone to test fly your homebuilt airplane? That's all for now, Thanks Randy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135905#135905 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Electronics
Hey All: I guess I am blind I would agree that lights in the tips are a great thing, but I did not see them. Great looking airplane. Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: xl <xl(at)prosody.org>
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna location forward of center section
My transponder antenna is less than 12" behind the nose gear. http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/swiss_mufflers5_small.jpg It works fine. I fly out of Boeing Field. Once in a while, maybe three times in hundreds of flights, ATC reported that my transponder was intermittent for a short time. Antenna placement may or may not have been a factor. Joe E @ BFI CH601XL, 491 hours Jabiru 3300, Sensenich wood prop 49x64 On Sun, 23 Sep 2007, David Lautenschlager wrote: > I'm building a 601XL from kit and at about 85% complete. I am looking > for a good place to install the transponder antenna forward of the > center section. I have installed the gascolator just in front of the > center section in the middle so that area isn't available. Will the > nose gear block reception if I locate behind it? > David Lautenschlager, Mobile, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna location forward of center section
Date: Sep 23, 2007
As a general guideline, the transponder antenna should be located so as to (A) have as short a feedline form the transponder as possible and practical, (B) be a couple of feet or so from other sensitive instruments which might pick up the short intensse bursts of its transmission, and (C) be at leat three feet from other antennas, (transceiver, localizer, VOR etc.). The center C-channel under the cabin floor is a satisfactory place to install the transponder antenna and unless it is immediately behind the nose gear it should function well. I would place it at least a foot or so back from the firewall to be safe on that account. I decided while building the fuselage that there is so damned little room for wiring to traverse fore and aft through the center section of the spar, that I would close the center C-channel support under the cabin by making a cover for it. The cover is retained by #6-32 flathead screws and nutplates. The cover allows the use of that center C-channel to run my brakelines back to the main gear legs, and to run wiring under the cabin floor and the center section of the spar rather than trying to run everything through the one small hole in its center. That hole already accomodates the aileron torque tube, the rudder cables, and the threaded rod from the center stick assembly to the elevator control horn inside the console. Because of that adaptation, the center C-channel was not a convenient location for me. I decided instead to mount the transponder antenna in the cabin floor through the rudder pedal bearing channel and centered between the left seat rudder pedals. The pedal bearing channel eliminates the need for a doubler to support the antenna. That location places the feedline coax cable between the pedals where it doesn't physically interfere with their movement and puts the antenna a satisfactory distance from anything it might interfere with in the RF sense. It also routes the cable where nobody's feet are likely to traumatize it over time. Regardles of whether or not you use the exterior C-channel as I did or not, this site in the pedal bearing channel, centered between either set of rudder pedals remains a decent option in the 601XL. In the photo the antenna connector and the coax feedline can be seen between the left side rudder pedals. The gizmo immediately forward of the antenna is a Matco parking brake valve. The brakelines can be seen running from the valve outlets to where they exit the cabin into the center channel conduit. I hope this helps you. Drying out yet? Dred 601XL/Jabiru Rayne, LA ----- Original Message ----- From: David Lautenschlager To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Transponder antenna location forward of center section I'm building a 601XL from kit and at about 85% complete. I am looking for a good place to install the transponder antenna forward of the center section. I have installed the gascolator just in front of the center section in the middle so that area isn't available. Will the nose gear block reception if I locate behind it? David Lautenschlager Mobile, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics
Date: Sep 23, 2007
> I guess I am blind I would agree that lights in the tips are a great thing, but I did not see them. They appear in later photos. Look in the photo album: http://www.airfox.com.br/br/alb3/images/Clube-C%E9u-05_07-001_jpg.jpg http://www.airfox.com.br/br/alb3/images/Clube-C%E9u-05_07-012_jpg.jpg -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times?
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Anyone heard what the lead time is on an XL quick-build kit these days? I'd ask the factory but it's Sunday. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times?
Date: Sep 23, 2007
About a month and a half from Can-Zac, I dont have a personal life. Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. president@can-zacaviation.com www.can-zacaviation.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times? Anyone heard what the lead time is on an XL quick-build kit these days? I'd ask the factory but it's Sunday. -- Craig 9/22/2007 1:27 PM 9/22/2007 1:27 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 09/22/07
Chris, I fly behind a Stratus, but before the third hour of running, I sent my heads to Ron of RAM Performance to replace valve guides with a hat-section guide press fit with a temperature differential. He put in larger valves, heavier springs and cleaned up ports. He improved the reliability of my Stratus guides. Ron does exceptional work. I'd suspect his engines are all the quality you'd expect as well. At the time I was looking at engines, he had a cross-intake manifold with a carburetor on top that cramped my cowl. Now, I see he's got a first rate re-drive and a lower profile on the 100 hp engine to boot. I prefer the separate Bing Carbs for my Stratus, but would have no difficulty buying an engine from Ron if his price is currently right. Larry McFarland 601HDS ( with 105 hours) at www.macsmachine.com Chris Ross wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have experience with the Ram Subarus? I have > seen many mentions of Stratus, but fewer of the Ram shop. I would be > interested in hearing how they perform in "real life". > > Thanks. > > Chris Ross > > At 01:58 AM 9/23/2007, you wrote: >> You should try a Ram built Subaru .100,130,140,or the Ram 250 >> Superchareged >> that ,ought to rip that 701's wings off with the 130 all of his >> engines are >> dynoed, so we are talking true HP. Not to mention he's been at it >> for 25 >> years, that always help's a little too.. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601XL Quick-build kit lead times?
From: "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com>
Date: Sep 23, 2007
I don't know about the fast build kit, but I've been waiting for my wing kit for three months now, so I think it's safe to say they're behind. I feel that I'm financing their operation with my down payment. Hans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135934#135934 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 )
I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on. So this leads me to believe it is a CNC error, but it's a little hard to get up there to measure and prove it. Anyway, this has produced a gap too big to shim and I'm not sure what to do about it. One thought I had was to move the angle forward, but then the existing holes would be directly over the baggage back and the vertical ("L") angles. My other idea was to ignore the gap basically since when I test fit the baggage back only the area near the gap didn't site flush. So I would add some extra rivets towards the inside of the panel to make up for it, and maybe add two gussets. My guess is that two rivets on each side would have to be skipped. Any thoughts? I put pictures up on my blog: http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ Thanks! -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Sep 23, 2007
You've had some flying experience so you obviously have a "feel" for what you are getting into. In this age of "instant gratification" if you are willing to work for up to ten years to achieve your dream of flight then you have my respect. You might want to consider trying to arrange a test flight in a 701 to help you decide if it is truly the aircraft that you want. As far as flight testing and flight training is concerned, I don't know how many hours you'll have to fly off in Canada (in the US it is usually 40) so unless you've earned your license and acquired some experience I agree that a test pilot would be in order. The suggestion of locating an EAA chapter or other group of like minded people is a good one. One of life's greatest blessings is being able to fly.... my advice to you is to do whatever it takes.... you won't regret it. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135949#135949 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building as a way for a non-pilot to get into aviation?
From: "AB_Summit" <rengler(at)TELUS.NET>
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Great suggestions, I don't think there is an EAA chapter near me, but I believe there is an RAA chapter which I think is the Canadian equivalent. I'm going to look into joining the local chapter. Anybody have any thoughts on the 582? Thanks Randy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135959#135959 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon" <cscsail(at)gmavt.net>
Subject: Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701
)
Date: Sep 23, 2007
John, It looks like you could just reverse the L on top. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: John Marzulli To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 4:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701 ) I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on. So this leads me to believe it is a CNC error, but it's a little hard to get up there to measure and prove it. Anyway, this has produced a gap too big to shim and I'm not sure what to do about it. One thought I had was to move the angle forward, but then the existing holes would be directly over the baggage back and the vertical ("L") angles. My other idea was to ignore the gap basically since when I test fit the baggage back only the area near the gap didn't site flush. So I would add some extra rivets towards the inside of the panel to make up for it, and maybe add two gussets. My guess is that two rivets on each side would have to be skipped. Any thoughts? I put pictures up on my blog: http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ Thanks! -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Subject: Subaru
With the talk about Subarus does anyone know what the actual weight penalty would be with a Sub' E81 vs Jabiru? The only numbers I've been able to dig out online are 180lbs installed weight the Jab and 220 for Sub'. Does 40lbs difference sound about right? Are these equivalent instals? Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701
) In a message dated 9/23/2007 4:27:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john.marzulli(at)gmail.com writes: I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on. Turn the top "L" around the other way and it will fit. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Subaru
Hi Ron, The engine is 182 lbs with 32 lbs coolant/radiator, hoses etc. Exhaust system will vary this too. The installations differ on C.G. more because some place the radiator and coolant (18 - 20 lbs) in the cowl and others place the radiator under the belly bringing C.G. rearward. There is no equivalence in price or cost to operate, but the 3300 is generally faster. Larry McFarland 601HDS with Stratus Subaru EA-81 at www.macsmachine.com Ronald Steele wrote: > > With the talk about Subarus does anyone know what the actual weight > penalty would be with a Sub' E81 vs Jabiru? The only numbers I've > been able to dig out online are 180lbs installed weight the Jab and > 220 for Sub'. Does 40lbs difference sound about right? Are these > equivalent instals? > > Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Subaru
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Mine is 183 lb. complete every thing It's a Ram custom built subaru ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Steele" rsteele(at)rjsit.com JoeN101HD 601XL/Ram Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru > > With the talk about Subarus does anyone know what the actual weight > penalty would be with a Sub' E81 vs Jabiru? The only numbers I've > been able to dig out online are 180lbs installed weight the Jab and > 220 for Sub'. Does 40lbs difference sound about right? Are these > equivalent instals? > > Ron > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701
) The holes in the top skin are actually exactly where the flange needs to be, so flipping the ("L") angle would only move the flange from being 10mm too far aft to being 10mm too far forward. And I'm pretty sure that the angle is in the right orientation. If the flange was in the wrong orientation, then wouldn't there be a 20mm discrepancy? Thanks, -John On 9/23/07, NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/23/2007 4:27:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > john.marzulli(at)gmail.com writes: > > I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of > the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every > other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between > the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on. > > *Turn the top "L" around the other way and it will fit.* > > > ------------------------------ > Make AOL Your Homepage. > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Subject: Re: Subaru
That's amazingly light for an auto conversion. This really gives me something to consider. Since I'm so heavy, I thought I'd have no alternative to Rotax/Jabiru. Is there a summary of the difference between the RAM and Stratus packages? Thanks, Ron On Sep 23, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Southern Reflections wrote: > > > Mine is 183 lb. complete every thing It's a Ram custom built > subaru > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Steele" > rsteele(at)rjsit.com JoeN101HD 601XL/Ram > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 5:20 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru > > >> With the talk about Subarus does anyone know what the actual >> weight penalty would be with a Sub' E81 vs Jabiru? The only >> numbers I've been able to dig out online are 180lbs installed >> weight the Jab and 220 for Sub'. Does 40lbs difference sound >> about right? Are these equivalent instals? >> Ron >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: "Shane Norwood" <phpd81p(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zodiac XL vs. HDS
Hi All, I'm in a bit of a dilemma, so maybe you guys with some experience can offer your input. I'm just getting started with my Zodiac project (rudder workshop in November.) Due to limited hanger space, I'm really interested in going with the HDS to save 4 feet of wingspan. I'm planning on using the Corvair conversion, and I'm not concerned about LSA rules, because I will be not operating my plane under LSA. So I guess what I'm trying to find out is if there are any HDS builders who have flown both the HDS and the XL who can offer a practical pro/con assessment of each model. And is there anyone who built an HDS who wished they had built a XL, or vice-versa? Thanks, Shane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Problems with top pre-drilled fuselage skin ( CH-701
) John, Looking at my drawings, 01/04, 7-F-3 shows the dimensions of the centers of the L angles. How does that compare to your CNC holes? Also on my plane the holes for the side skin and top skin at the upper longeron are lined up, I think yours are offset by 10 mm. This may be the base of the problem. Bob Spudis In a message dated 9/23/2007 9:07:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john.marzulli(at)gmail.com writes: The holes in the top skin are actually exactly where the flange needs to be, so flipping the ("L") angle would only move the flange from being 10mm too far aft to being 10mm too far forward. And I'm pretty sure that the angle is in the right orientation. If the flange was in the wrong orientation, then wouldn't there be a 20mm discrepancy? Thanks, -John On 9/23/07, _NYTerminat(at)aol.com_ (mailto:NYTerminat(at)aol.com) <_NYTerminat(at)aol.com_ (mailto:NYTerminat(at)aol.com) > wrote: In a message dated 9/23/2007 4:27:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _john.marzulli(at)gmail.com_ (mailto:john.marzulli(at)gmail.com) writes: I'm having a bit of a problem. The ("L") angle that attaches to the top of the baggage back is off by exactly 10mm. This seems strange since every other junction is dead on, and the longeron splices are exactly even between the sides and the top. The flanges for the bulkheads were dead on. Turn the top "L" around the other way and it will fit. ____________________________________ Make AOL Your Homepage. _http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) _http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -Airplane The Movie (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Subaru
Date: Sep 23, 2007
I would say so Ronald ,Straus is more of a stock set up. Ram is a built engine more so with a lot of tuned parts,ported , tuned flowed heads,tuned ex.pipes tuned muffler ,heavt duty valves,springs,and guides . custom alum. forged piston's the list goes on and on. go to info(at)ramengines.com the owners name is Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Steele" <rsteele(at)rjsit.com> Thanks Joe N101 HD 601XL Ram 130 Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru > > That's amazingly light for an auto conversion. This really gives me > something to consider. Since I'm so heavy, I thought I'd have no > alternative to Rotax/Jabiru. > > Is there a summary of the difference between the RAM and Stratus > packages? > > Thanks, > Ron > > On Sep 23, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Southern Reflections wrote: > >> >> >> Mine is 183 lb. complete every thing It's a Ram custom built subaru >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Steele" rsteele(at)rjsit.com >> JoeN101HD 601XL/Ram >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 5:20 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru >> >> >>> With the talk about Subarus does anyone know what the actual weight >>> penalty would be with a Sub' E81 vs Jabiru? The only numbers I've >>> been able to dig out online are 180lbs installed weight the Jab and >>> 220 for Sub'. Does 40lbs difference sound about right? Are these >>> equivalent instals? >>> Ron >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: "Darrell Haas" <Darrellhaas(at)verizon.net>
Subject: wing tips and Gull wing Doors
I had a chance to check out pictures of Roberto Brito's plane with the wing tips and the gull wing doors at www.airfox.com.br and I wrote him too see if I could order both the wing tips and the gull wing doors. He sounds like a great guy but is too busy to produce either of them at his place. Does anyone know others who have made similar wing tips and/or gull wing doors? Where can one buy them etc? plans? Thanks, Darrell Haas Fairview, Oregon 601XL wana be builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: New to me.
Date: Sep 23, 2007
I decided to go VW on my new 701. I ordered and got the Great Plains Type 1 engine assembly manual. In it I saw something I never heard of before. It said that if you wanted to paint your engine cylinders to mix enamel and gasoline 50/50. Has anyone out there done that, and if so, what were the results and did it hold up? Larry, www.SkyHawg.com, N1345L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electronics
that guy is in Brazil, wrong country. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: Sep 22, 2007 11:28 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >The one that I'am talking abouthad a custom canopy,up turned wing tips,and a >small window behind the seat. Thanks Joe N101HD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:44 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics > > >> >> if you are refering to the panel that was put on the zenith website, that >> is me. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> >>>Sent: Sep 22, 2007 7:56 PM >>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>> >>> >>> >>>Hi Juan, a little off the subject,are you the person built ? that super >>>custom 601 XL ? Thank's Joe N101HD >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> >>>To: >>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:06 PM >>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>> >>> >>>> >>>> no steamers on mine, just the dynons, with Back up batteries. >>>> >>>> Juan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM> >>>>>Sent: Sep 21, 2007 6:34 PM >>>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >>>>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Bill-- >>>>> I'm flying the 601xl with the D100 as my main flight instruments and >>>>> the >>>>> D180 mounted on the passenger side for my engine instrumentation and >>>>> EFIS >>>>> backup. No problem seeing any of the instrument reading of the D180 >>>>> from >>>>> the pilot seat, either with or without split screen. >>>>> >>>>>George May >>>>>601XL 912s 150hrs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: >>>>>ElectronicsDate: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:21:21 -0400From: >>>>>japhillipsga(at)aol.comGeoff, I am interested in the D180 for the RV-8a I'm >>>>>building. My concerns are is it really big enough to see. I measured and >>>>>the eyeball to panel distance is almost four feet. I don't want to be >>>>>squinting trying to see some little light bar so far away they all run >>>>>together. Also, a friend of mine said the 180 won't keep up with a plane >>>>>doing anything other than "airliner type" flying. That it is too slow >>>>>and >>>>>is always trying to catch up ? I just have not had the opportunity to >>>>>talk >>>>>to anyone actually using the unit and before I pay Mr. Dynon a bunch of >>>>>money I hope to know it'll fit me. Do you have any backup steam gages >>>>>and >>>>>such as back up? Thanks and best regards, Billdo not >>>>>archive-----Original >>>>>Message-----From: Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net>To: >>>>>zenith-list(at)matronics.comSent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:27 pmSubject: >>>>>Zenith-List: Re: Electronics >>>>> >>>>>Your own words Don >>>>>"Also, the efis is about $6000 dyon10 with all the bells and whistles, >>>>>But >>>>>the >>>>>jabiru site shows an instrument panel for around $2000. THoughts? " >>>>> >>>>>If you price ANY basic dynon unit (except D180) it's ALSO about $2000. >>>>>Bells and >>>>>whistles will crank up anyone's price. I bought the D180 combined >>>>>EFIS/enigine >>>>>monitoring system plus a full Rotax accessory package, battery backup, >>>>>pitot >>>>>tube, remote compass,mounting gizmo's, the works, for $4180. Not trying >>>>>to >>>>>sell >>>>>Dynon here. Most of the competition looks good. I almost bought the >>>>>Inigma.....Geoff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135539#135539 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>>More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live >>>>>Hotmail. NOW with 5GB storage. >>>>>ration_HM_mini_5G_0907 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


September 06, 2007 - September 23, 2007

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