Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-hf

October 05, 2007 - October 16, 2007



Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
Making the main gear don't seem difficult it is the bending that would worry me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at the bends not sure what that was about. I would just hate to buy that chunk of alum. and then mess it up bending it. In a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com writes: the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different story - but the basic design is no problem. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Heavy left wing7
Date: Oct 05, 2007
If two identical wings are made I doubt the condition you describe should be called heavy left wing. Your aircraft is rolling to the Left! If the two wings are identical the weight of the pilot in the Lh side will cause roll to the left. Other things to check is the wing incedance is correct over the entire length of both wings. If this ok you should be able to place a trim tab on Aileron to balance controls for the particular configoration most commonly flown ( 1 person, two person) Roll to the left corrected by lifting Lh wing if tab placed on lh aileron must be bent up (pushes down Lh aileron) Graeme Bell CH 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From: craig(at)craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 > Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600 > > > > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating > prop? It would be fun to know. > > Corvairs spin the "other" way. > > -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Boo! Scare away worms, re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews' target='_new'>Try now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 4/10/2007 5:03 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Heavy left wing7
Date: Oct 04, 2007
Thanks, Paul. Now I don't have to move my trim tab to the other aileron!!! Bill Naumuk HDS Fuse/Corvair Townville, Pa ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Maxson To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:35 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 My Corvair spins the "wrong way", and I have the slight left wing heavy thing, so it's not prop-wash. I usually just fill the right tank only or burn fuel from the left tank first. I find leaning my knee on the stick helps. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > From: craig(at)craigandjean.com > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing7 > Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:44:01 -0600 > > > > Has anyone experienced heavy RIGHT wing with a counter-clockwise-rotating > prop? It would be fun to know. > > Corvairs spin the "other" way. > > -- Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Boo! Scare away worms, re.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews' target='_new'>Try now! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
There is no mystery in bending 6061T - or any other alloy and temper for th at matter - I am very surprised that they had issues as CH is usually a sti ckler for that kind of detail. All the information is very old and very muc h public domain.=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 100 HP Corv air=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc(at)aol.com" <Af terfxllc(at)aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 5:20:37 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AMaking the main gear don't seem difficult it is the b ending that would =0Aworry me. Zenith had a problem with them cracking at t he bends not sure what =0Athat was about. I would just hate to buy that chu nk of alum. and then mess it up =0Abending it.=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0AIn a message dated 10/4/2007 4:38:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Aplanecraz ydld(at)yahoo.com writes:=0A=0Athe landing gear is eminently doable - and it i s not that big of a =0A deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a =0A simple part to make. Now, if you want gundr illed brake lines, that is a =0A different story - but the basic design is no =0Aproblem.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ASee what's new="_blank">Make A -======================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________ ___________________________________________________________________________ _=0ATake the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mai l, news, photos & more. =0Ahttp://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
Andy, What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like to read more about them. Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you have it nitrided. I don't know about those things. Dave Thompson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 04, 2007
:P LOL Mark, just let him spend too much. Apparently it's good for the economy, but not necessarily good for the individual. LOL n85ae wrote: > Inflicting my view? Sorry, I didn't realize my opinion conflicted with yours. > I'll run right out and change it. By the way which side of politics do you > stand on? > > Have a nice day, > > Jeff > > > > > > > zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca wrote: > > ? > > Jeff, would this be the wrong time to mention that my company demonstrator 601XL is a plans built with a Corvair engine? Not to mention that total cost is below $15,000 if you don't count my panel of which I went overboard. In addition, you added Jabiru to the aircraft motors, this is not a certified Aircraft motor and is mostly constructed using automotive parts. I have a few friends that have a 601 even cheaper, one gent has a standard panel 601XL ready for flight,( waiting for final inspection) he plans built it in a year and is under $12,000 without paint but everything else. > > > > Safety is construction methods and materials, not brand names! Although most plans built aircraft are not as nice as a kit built plane, I have seen some plans built planes I would be very happy to fly and some kit built that scarred me, also I have seen a few that won Grand Champion at the airshows. > > > > Jeff, you are inflicting your point of view, this comes from the path you have traveled over your life. IT is sound advice for those who have traveled similar routes. Nevertheless, it is not an opinion that is relevant to others who walked the line of life enjoying the creation of projects. Building a plane from plans is not hard; 10 years ago, Zenair only sold kits that were hand created, to say, each and every part was made in the plans builder fashion. THEREFORE, if a builder is willing to take the time to learn the proper methods, there is no reason in this world why he cannot build a plane just as airworthy as yours. > > [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C805FD.347C1130[/img] > > > > > > MOREOVER, if plans? building was such a hard and unachievable goal then why would Zenith support such a feature? Why would I have instructed a workshop, in the Zenith facility during the open house? > > ? > > > > Hosted by Mark of Can-Zac Aviation (http://www.can-zacaviation.com) (Zenith Aircraft's Canadian representative), this workshop covered the skills, materials, tools and commitment required to accomplish the feat of plans-building your own aircraft, whether the STOL CH 701 (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7drawings.html) or Zodiac XL (http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html), for less than $10,000 (not counting the engine). Topics included: Reading and understanding the drawings and manuals, making rib form blocks, cutting the sheet metal rib blanks, deburring and polishing techniques, rib forming, tips, tricks and techniques, and more. > > From the Zenith website, written by the President of Zenith. Being generous with a FWF of $5,000 for a Corvair installation and you have a plane for under $15,000. > > Jeff, I in no way wish to insult you, Everything you have stated in the last few letters is true as it applies to yourself and other like minded people. I believe that you truly cannot see that it is possible for others to accomplish this feat; I also believe that you have certain beliefs in your decisions that would not allow you to accomplish this goal. However, others do not share your thought process, nor should they if it is not appropriate. > > > > In closing, installing a Jabiru engine in my 601XL would have been my first choice, along with the FWF. It really is a simple installation and very nice engine. Nevertheless, I am not a rich man, so when I weighed the options I installed the Corvair and have a safe plane, with a proven track record design. > > > > Yes Jeff, I do consider my 601XL a ?real? plane. Also I consider myself an average builder when I began it, plus my first plane I built from plans I considered myself a less then average builder, but very eager to learn as much as I could. > > > > I have said this before to many, if you are building to own and fly a brand new plane with superior performance over the old dilapidated rental fleets out there, buy a QBK kit! IF you are building to save a few dollars but get a flying plane then purchase a kit. IF your building to live an adventure of building a plane from a flat sheet and the flying at the end is just a new bonus then consider a plans built, it is a hell of an adventure. > > > > As for the NSI and dead stick landings, yup I can see that. I have always held the belief that if you take any motor designed at 70hp then hop It up to 105hp your in for a world of headaches. I like the Subaru engines, I have 5 in the shop, but they are a harder conversion and not for the average guy like the Corvair is. In addition, the average Corvair is outputting the hp is was designed for. Nevertheless, each of us must make that decision based on their own investigations, NO-ONE can tell us what to do in our own planes, but it is always good to hear the opinions, BOTH sides of the coin and pick which truths apply to our own personal capabilities and situations. > > > > As for Renting, Lets see my last rental, C-150 walk around. All fiberglass parts cracked. Duct tape holding things on, oil leaks from FWF, drips of fuel from wing tank bleeders. Paint in shameful faded condition. Windshield and side windows glazed, fuel gauges inaccurate, one non-functional, seats ripped and hard to move, carpet stank ! > > > > GOD I wish I only found this on one plane but it is all to typical of the rental fleet out there. I show my list of real problems I would NOT accept in my own plane and get the response that it has just had a fresh annual a month or two ago and is all good till next year. IT may fly but I feel far safer behind the plane I built and did not have to use duct tape to keep parts on. > > > > Moreover, don?t forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right. > > ? > > Mark Townsend > > Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. > > president@can-zacaviation.com > > www.can-zacaviation.com > > > > > > -- > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138165#138165 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHETKRU(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2007
Subject: Canopy Crack.......
Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a hairline crack in my canopy, it is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is not clear it will not be a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it from growing. I have already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips will be greatly appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that might work. Chet Kruleski 601XL Las Vegas, NV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2007
From: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded responseZenith
building expense "Moreover, don't forget the bragging rights as you take that pretty woman up for her first flight in a plane you own and built. Well hopefully someone has bragged over this, I have been married for over 20 years and forfeited this right." Mark, I've met your wife, She's a pretty woman! :) I like the other stuff you wrote. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2007
From: GeorgeM <planelists(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Cast or forged?
Is cast crank good enough for airplane motor? Or should I stick fo forged one? GeorgeM ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thompson To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith building expense Andy, What is your source for the "SCAT CHEVY CAST CRANKSHAFTS" for Corvair? I'd like to read more about them. Question: Can a nitride hardened crank be drilled and tapped for WW's safety shaft or is it too hard? I thought you had to modify the crank before you have it nitrided. I don't know about those things. Dave Thompson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2007
Subject: Re: Canopy Crack.......
Go to your plastics supply company... they make a solvent that will bond the crack I forgot the name of it but I'm sure if you tell them what you are needing they will help you out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: heavy left wing/roll to left
Date: Oct 04, 2007
All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
Date: Oct 04, 2007
Concerning the landing gear, does any one , like Grove, manufacture them for the 601xl taildragger conversion. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense the landing gear is eminently doable - and it is not that big of a deal. It requires a substantial amount of time and craftsmanship but it is a simple part to make. Now, if you want gundrilled brake lines, that is a different story - but the basic design is no problem. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair ----- Original Message ---- From: "Afterfxllc(at)aol.com" <Afterfxllc(at)aol.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 3:54:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith building expense I need to clarify something from my previous post... on the spread sheet the gasket set it is priced at 199.00 I ordered one today for my 601 and it is actually 109.00. You might want to be careful getting an OEM gasket set because it might have the older style pushrod tube o-rings and they leak and when you get your head gaskets make sure to use the proper ones not the OEM. I also stand by my original posts that you cannot build a 601 xl with all the same parts you get from Zenith for 5,000 dollars there are too many parts you can't make yourself... Like the gear that is 600.00 or the canopy that is 600.00 the wheels tires and brakes, fuel selector and strobes I do think you can do it for between 8 and 9 K the rest is up to you as far as costs go I was simply saying the one's I build can't be done for 20,000. I to see the cost savings in scratch building and have started making templets of the originals to make them faster. And my next one will be plans built. If you would like to see the one's I am building now you can check out my website at www.project601xl.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new at AOL.com and . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2007
From: Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Crack.......
What we did in our helicopters when they would develop a crack was to stop drill at both ends and then glue a piece overtop the cracked area. Terry --- CHETKRU(at)aol.com wrote: > Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a > hairline crack in my canopy, it > is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is > not clear it will not be > a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it > from growing. I have > already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips > will be greatly > appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that > might work. > > Chet Kruleski > 601XL > Las Vegas, NV > > > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TIME OUT, please!
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Extra bonus points if it says Briggs & Stratton, or Tecumseh on the engine, with laminated pine prop. Also awards for innovation for the use of cardboard and strapping tape. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138271#138271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Know-it-all airplane builder opinions frequently change when they become airplane fliers (some times glider fliers). That is my observation. :) Let me just tell you point blank, I do not think much of auto conversions regardless of who did the work. So everything you read that I post, you can keep in mind my opinion. Jeff. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138278#138278 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
just put an aileron trim on it. Zeniht sells a great kit for it. most planes this size have a heavy wing situation, just trim it. -----Original Message----- >From: Southern Reflections <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: Oct 4, 2007 10:13 PM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left > >All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start there. In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes: All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
again, longer and narrower is usually better/more effective than shorter an d wider. More tab area bent to a shallower angle is usually better/more eff ective than smaller tab bent to a greater angle.=0A=0ADave Downey=0AHarleys ville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFro m: "Afterfxllc(at)aol.com" =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.co m=0ASent: Friday, October 5, 2007 11:12:24 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: h eavy left wing/roll to left=0A=0A=0ABefore you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it u ntill you have the size and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't tak e a big tab try not to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start there.=0A =0A =0AIn a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Ea stern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes:=0AAll the input on t he "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a p lane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is i s hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks a gain to you all !! Joe N101HD 6 01XL/RAM=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASee what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your ==0A=0A=0A _________________________________________________________ ___________________________=0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Per fect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.c om/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Interesting. You know there are a lot of flyers out there that think much the same about that Rotax you have in your Kitfox. There are even more people that think the same about airplanes that aren't built in a factory, again like your Kitfox and the 801 you are building. I've had two inflight engine failures in the 25+ years I've been flying. Guess what? In the first I was sitting behind a Lycoming engine. In the second I was sitting in front of a Lycoming engine. In both cases they were installed at the factory that built the aircraft. n85ae wrote: > Know-it-all airplane builder opinions frequently change when they become airplane fliers (some times glider fliers). That is my observation. :) > > Let me just tell you point blank, I do not think much of auto conversions > regardless of who did the work. So everything you read that I post, you > can keep in mind my opinion. > > Jeff. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138308#138308 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WHC228(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Subject: Remove me from the list please
Good afternoon Please remove me form this list. Thank you. Bill Campbell WHC228(at)aol.com 814 398 2148 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
We didn't have a heavy wing problem largely because we put the battery on the right side in front of the rear spar and probably the most helpful was off setting the main gear 2 feet to the right....... O no!!!! In a message dated 10/5/2007 12:28:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com writes: again, longer and narrower is usually better/more effective than shorter and wider. More tab area bent to a shallower angle is usually better/more effective than smaller tab bent to a greater angle. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy" <rpf(at)wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Remove me from the list please
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Bill, You have to unsubscribe yourself. http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed ----- Original Message ----- From: WHC228(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:57 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Remove me from the list please Good afternoon Please remove me form this list. Thank you. Bill Campbell WHC228(at)aol.com 814 398 2148 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See whtarget="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Members, When I had my ZodiacXL built I was sure that I would need wing trim so I ordered it to be installed. This aircraft is so small and light that just the pilot if he is a big guy will cause the left wing to be low. Also a pasenger who will be on the right side of the cg will sometimes cause the right wing to dip so the only way to insure that you fly level no matter heavy pasenger, or what ever, if you have a trim tab on one of the wings, this can be corrected. I would advise all builders to install wing trim so you have a way to adjust in flight. Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start there. In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes: All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Gig - I have a factory new injected Continental IO240B in it NOT a Rotax. :) Regards, Jeff. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138325#138325 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TIME OUT, please!.. And the Winner Is...
From: "lwinger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
I would like to enter this model. Obviously and amateur built tail-dragger. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1147/1491413430_124b7d0bda_o.jpg -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA 601XL/Corvair from scratch Control surfaces and wing parts complete Building the wing www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138330#138330 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Hey Gig - No, I'm up for it. This is just an email list, I'm certainly not afraid to put messages on it. It certainly can't compete with my kids for antagonizing me. :) I enjoy the debate, it breaks up my day. What was the point you wanted me to address? Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138338#138338 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 05, 2007
I am close to finishing my 701. To measure usable fuel, I plan to fill the tanks, drain them thru the regular fuel lines while the plane is sitting on the ground. Seems this should provide reasonable estimate of usable fuel. I would appreciate any values other 701 flyers are using. Regards, Ken Arnold CH701 N701LK 90% ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Gig - I agree with that. Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is increased by using them for purposes other than that which they were designed. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138349#138349 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
One thing to consider is the pitch attitude of the plane in a climb/descent, and make concession for the fuel level other than level flight. You might find that due to do the pickup location you have a couple gallons less usable fuel than what you have when level. Basically, your engine can quit in climb or descent, do to the pickup being exposed (i.e. gas all at the other end of the tank.). Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138352#138352 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: "Kevin L. Rupert" <klr12(at)psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
I found this enlightening. Sport Aviation, October 2007 page 35, 1st column- last paragraph "Corvairs arrived at Oshkosh in force, spawned........................................ The Zenair display featured Dick Schmidt's new 601 HD, */which he built from plans for less than $5000 (firewall aft)./*..............." Kevin R. XL/C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Gig - I don't think I made any personal attacks, I may have stated my opinions in a way that gets under people's skin, but that's about it. Heck - I think probably everybody on this list would all be friends if we met at the airport offline. Honestly. You have a nice website, and it looks like a nice plane. I think you ought to put a higher quality engine on it. It looks like based on the facilities you are building in that you can afford to do so. However, that being said - You are certainly entitled to put whatever you want on it. Remember this is just an internet list, and in the greater reality of life is pretty unimportant. Have a nice weekend. Regards, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138368#138368 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Getting all the little Chips out
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
How are you guys getting all the little aluminum chips & bits out...? Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot is a place for a chip to hide. Like between wing ribs and wing skins; or between lower spar caps and bottom wing skins... They seem stick to cortec, even long after it's dried. Maybe it's a static electricity sticking type of thing here? I've got most of them out by running a vacuum cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing" with a toothpick, vacuuming some more. But you can't get them all. What are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a perfectionist here? Thanks, Pat XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138373#138373 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 05, 2007
PatrickW wrote: > > I've got most of them out by running a vacuum cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing" with a toothpick, vacuuming some more. > > But you can't get them all. > > What are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a perfectionist here? > > Thanks, > > Pat > XL/Corvair And you never will. Get them out as best you can but don't expect to get them all. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138381#138381 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
Date: Oct 05, 2007
When I'm doing a little work in a section with crevices that can catch chips I block them off with masking tape. The best approach is prevention - do what cutting you can before you assemble the parts. This is more of a goal than a reality. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Subject: Change of subject 601xl wet wing
All, I have decided to put a wet wing in the 601. This is done all the time in the vans RV which I have built. My reasoning for this is due to the fact the 15 gal tanks from Zenith cost 1,500 and I can build a wet wing in the 601 for about 300. Has anyone done this? If so do you have plans? I have it in my head how I'm going to do it but why re invent the wheel? I spoke with Zenith and they said it wouldn't be a problem so next week as soon as I finish the two fuselage's I am cutting the LE. This would be a good way for the scratch builder's out there to save some time and money also. Jeff 601xl _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHETKRU(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Subject: Re: Canopy Crack.......
Hi Bryan, Thanks for the information, I will check it out as soon as I am finished computing. Cheers, Chet Kruleski ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Change of subject 601xl wet wing
If you are making a wet wing with LE tanks, why not move them outboard a ba y or two. Keep the fuel as far away from teh egress path and the cockpit as possible?=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "Afterfxllc(at)aol.com" <Afterfxllc@ aol.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, October 5, 2007 6: 29:40 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Change of subject 601xl wet wing=0A=0A=0AA ll,=0A =0AI have decided to put a wet wing in the 601. This is done all the time in the vans RV which I have built. My reasoning for this is due to th e fact the 15 gal tanks from Zenith cost 1,500 and I can build a wet wing i n the 601 for about 300. Has anyone done this? If so do you have plans? I h ave it in my head how I'm going to do it but why re invent the wheel? I spo ke with Zenith and they said it wouldn't be a problem so next week as soon as I finish the two fuselage's I am cutting the LE.=0A =0AThis would be a g ood way for the scratch builder's out there to save some time and money als o.=0A =0AJeff=0A601xl=0Awww.project601xl.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASee what's =================0A=0A=0A ____________ ________________________________________________________________________=0A Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user pane ?a=7 =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Good discussion guys, Popular auto conversions for aircraft require more builder decision-making on ignition, carburetor's and cooling. Statistically, numbers prove that the conversions have a broader range of solutions to deal with like selecting carbs, coils and radiators. Too many brilliant type-As are reluctant to employ successful aircraft and engine solutions of previous builders. Most people fear doing a conversion, but dont blame the engine, be it a Subaru, Corvair, Ford or Chevy. These are great engines! It is the builder that repeatedly makes the mistakes and the most onerous statistics would point to the conversion engines when they should point to the less than responsible builder. I'd like to think of it as a kind of a Darwinist plan for improving aircraft builder intellect and capability. Think, build and then fly safe, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Gig Giacona wrote: > Nobody is saying you need to choose one but to attack those that choose to use, say a Corvair, as being in some way less safe than you is going to piss a lot of people off and cause them to discount anything you have to say on any topic. > > >> Gig - >> >> I agree with that. >> >> Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is increased >> by using them for purposes other than that which they were designed. >> >> Jeff >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Crack.......
Date: Oct 05, 2007
I used JB weld on a c-150 11 years ago and still ok. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: CHETKRU(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Crack....... Hi Folks, looking for a solution to repair a hairline crack in my canopy, it is not in a line of sight area and if the repair is not clear it will not be a problem, I just want to seal the break and keep it from growing. I have already stop drilled the area. Any thoughts or tips will be greatly appreciated, such as brands of epoxy or glue that might work. Chet Kruleski 601XL Las Vegas, NV ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See whatarget="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 05, 2007
Should consider all expected attitudes, especially steep descent and departure climb. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Usable Fuel I am close to finishing my 701. To measure usable fuel, I plan to fill the tanks, drain them thru the regular fuel lines while the plane is sitting on the ground. Seems this should provide reasonable estimate of usable fuel. I would appreciate any values other 701 flyers are using. Regards, Ken Arnold CH701 N701LK 90% ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
Ken I recommend that you consider the approach suggested by John Deakin in Pelican's Perch #7. Basically, he recommends determining the usable fuel in each tank experimentally, while flying a variety of "maneuvers." Unfortunately, the net link that I have for that article www.warmkessel.com/jr/flying/td/jd/7.jsp seems to be broken when I just tried it. The article is available in the Google cache. Or, let me know if you would like me to send you a pdf. Terry >I am close to finishing my 701. To measure usable fuel, I plan to fill >the tanks, drain them thru the regular fuel lines while the plane is >sitting on the ground. Seems this should provide reasonable estimate of >usable fuel. > >I would appreciate any values other 701 flyers are using. > >Regards, >Ken Arnold >CH701 N701LK 90% Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2007
From: Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
Here is a tool available commercially, but I always made mine out of aluminum. Terry http://www.averytools.com/pc-930-75-chip-chasers.aspx --- PatrickW wrote: > > > How are you guys getting all the little aluminum > chips & bits out...? > > Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot > is a place for a chip to hide. Like between wing > ribs and wing skins; or between lower spar caps and > bottom wing skins... > > They seem stick to cortec, even long after it's > dried. Maybe it's a static electricity sticking > type of thing here? > > I've got most of them out by running a vacuum > cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing" > with a toothpick, vacuuming some more. > > But you can't get them all. > > What are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a > perfectionist here? > > Thanks, > > Pat > XL/Corvair > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138373#138373 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 05, 2007
> I recommend that you consider the approach suggested by John Deakin in Pelican's Perch #7. This link is good but you have to do a (free) registration: http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182044-1.html -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Oct 06, 2007
I calibrated my dipstick for 'drainable fuel' so when I dip the tanks I know how much fuel is available in a level flight attitude. For the CZAW tanks that works out about 40 litres / side with 2.5 litres undrainable - total rating for these tanks was 85 litres. As with most aircraft, Cessna 150 for example, there must be an additional amount of fuel available to slosh about and still maintain safe flight and the proper term for this may well be 'unuseable fuel' For the CZAW tanks I rate that amount as 10 litres / side. I have at times unported a tank with 15 litres when in a steep descent, resulting in power loss of 10 - 30 seconds, so the problem is real. I have not had any problems in level or climbing flight but the drill is to feed off a better tank or both if the level is low. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138451#138451 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2007
From: Debo Cox <sky_ranger161(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
Hey guys, Maybe it's just me, and that's why it takes me so long to complete anything, but my building sequence takes care of the chip problem. Assemble, Drill, Disassemble, Deburr and Corrosion Protect, Re-assemble By treating each part like it's a piece of jewelery and cleaning it thoroughly before re-assembly, I don't have (and wouldn't allow if I could absolutely help it) chip one in my airplane. I've also heard that there are DAR's out there that are very picky about the chip thing, and in my opinion anything that can get between two surfaces and act as a wedge with the proper amount of vibration is not good. I'm not using Cortec for the very reason that it's sticky and will hold chips in place. Now bear in mind that that's my choice, so anyone's opinion out there isn't going to change my mind, because I'm an adult and capable of making my own choices and decisions. *grin* Debo Cox Scratch-built XL/Corvair Nags Head, NC Wings basically half finished ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
whether it is purchased or home made be certain to polish all edges of the chaser to a fine finish with fully radiused edges. Otherwise the cure can b e worse than the illness!=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 10 0 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Terry Fogelson =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, Octo ber 5, 2007 11:11:45 PM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting all the little n(at)yahoo.com>=0A=0AHere is a tool available commercially, but I always=0Amad e mine out of aluminum.=0A=0ATerry=0A=0Ahttp://www.averytools.com/pc-930-75 -chip-chasers.aspx=0A--- PatrickW wrote:=0A=0A> --> Zeni th-List message posted by: "PatrickW"=0A> =0A> =0A> How a re you guys getting all the little aluminum=0A> chips & bits out...?=0A> =0A> Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot=0A> is a place for a chip to hide. Like between wing=0A> ribs and wing skins; or between lowe r spar caps and=0A> bottom wing skins...=0A> =0A> They seem stick to cortec , even long after it's=0A> dried. Maybe it's a static electricity sticking =0A> type of thing here?=0A> =0A> I've got most of them out by running a va cuum=0A> cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing"=0A> with a toothp ick, vacuuming some more.=0A> =0A> But you can't get them all. =0A> =0A> W hat are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a=0A> perfectionist here? =0A> =0A> Thanks,=0A> =0A> Pat=0A> XL/Corvair=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A>=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph p?p=138373#138373=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>=0A> browse=0A> S ubscriptions page,=0A> FAQ,=0A> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-L =======================0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _____________________________________________ _______________________________________=0ACheck out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.=0Ahttp://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
just like all the Big Boys!=0A =0ADave Downey=0A Harleysville (SE) PA=0A 100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Debo Cox <sky _ranger161(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, Oct ober 6, 2007 7:09:15 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Getting all the little Chips out=0A=0AHey guys,=0A =0A Maybe it's just me, and that's why it ta kes me so long to complete anything, but my building sequence takes care of the chip problem.=0A =0A Assemble, Drill, Disassemble, Deburr and Corro sion Protect, Re-assemble=0A =0A By treating each part like it's a piece of jewelery and cleaning it thoroughly before re-assembly, I don't have (a nd wouldn't allow if I could absolutely help it) chip one in my airplane. I 've also heard that there are DAR's out there that are very picky about the chip thing, and in my opinion anything that can get between two surfaces a nd act as a wedge with the proper amount of vibration is not good.=0A =0A I'm not using Cortec for the very reason that it's sticky and will hold c hips in place. Now bear in mind that that's my choice, so anyone's opinion out there isn't going to change my mind, because I'm an adult and capable o f making=0A my own choices and decisions. *grin*=0A =0A Debo Cox=0A Scr atch-built XL/Corvair=0A Nags Head, NC=0A Wings basically half finished =============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A_____ ___________________________________________________________________________ ____=0APinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. =0Ahttp://sear chmarketing.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
Date: Oct 06, 2007
I flew with Bob in his plane a few weeks ago, he trimmed it up to the point it was stable hands off. That was the third 601XL I have flown in, one of them had no trim and it was uncomfortable to fly. Personally, I wouldn't build one without the Zenith electric trim, in my opinion, it is well worth it. Clyde Barcus 601 XL, Continental Powered Wings, Tail & Engine Complete Working on Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left Members, When I had my ZodiacXL built I was sure that I would need wing trim so I ordered it to be installed. This aircraft is so small and light that just the pilot if he is a big guy will cause the left wing to be low. Also a pasenger who will be on the right side of the cg will sometimes cause the right wing to dip so the only way to insure that you fly level no matter heavy pasenger, or what ever, if you have a trim tab on one of the wings, this can be corrected. I would advise all builders to install wing trim so you have a way to adjust in flight. Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start there. In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes: All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
I'm using cortec too. I avoid this problem by doing all the drilling, trimming and deburring on the complete subassembly before I start to apply the cortec. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida How are you guys getting all the little aluminum chips & bits out...? Everywhere where a curved radius meets a flat spot is a place for a chip to hide. Like between wing ribs and wing skins; or between lower spar caps and bottom wing skins... They seem stick to cortec, even long after it's dried. Maybe it's a static electricity sticking type of thing here? I've got most of them out by running a vacuum cleaner, blowing with compressed air, "flossing" with a toothpick, vacuuming some more. But you can't get them all. What are you guys doing? Am I being too much of a perfectionist here? Thanks, Pat XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138373#138373 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert stone" <rstone4(at)hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: heavy left wing/roll to left
Date: Oct 06, 2007
Hay Clyde, Thanks for the vote of confidence. Bob Yes, I am lurking somewhere on the net all the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clyde Barcus To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left I flew with Bob in his plane a few weeks ago, he trimmed it up to the point it was stable hands off. That was the third 601XL I have flown in, one of them had no trim and it was uncomfortable to fly. Personally, I wouldn't build one without the Zenith electric trim, in my opinion, it is well worth it. Clyde Barcus 601 XL, Continental Powered Wings, Tail & Engine Complete Working on Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: robert stone To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left Members, When I had my ZodiacXL built I was sure that I would need wing trim so I ordered it to be installed. This aircraft is so small and light that just the pilot if he is a big guy will cause the left wing to be low. Also a pasenger who will be on the right side of the cg will sometimes cause the right wing to dip so the only way to insure that you fly level no matter heavy pasenger, or what ever, if you have a trim tab on one of the wings, this can be corrected. I would advise all builders to install wing trim so you have a way to adjust in flight. Bob Stone Harker Heights, Tx ZodiacXL w/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing/roll to left Before you rivet it to anything make a small tab and use aluminum tape to hold it in place then keep tweaking it untill you have the size and angle you need then rivet it on. It doesn't take a big tab try not to go overboard on your first try. Look at some rudder tabs and start there. In a message dated 10/5/2007 10:42:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes: All the input on the "Heavy Wing" has been great ,and I'am sure it 's been beat to death.As Columbo says "Just One More Thing" Does any one have a pict. of one on a plane? Is .025 thick enough ? About how long and how wide,and how much is is hanging off the wing? Pop rivited? I just want to get it right Thanks again to you all !! Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 06, 2007
OK the corvair weighs around 230lbs with electric starting. Zenith states 200lbs for engine. Is this a weight and balance issue or a firewall/airframe stress issue? Or something else that I have not considered? I can't spend 16k on an engine. The VW redive looks good, and the water cooled head is even better. But I can't get an answer out of the G**** P*****s as to the performance of the water colling. I know that there are 701s with Corvair engine out there. Can you guys chime in? Thanks Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138529#138529 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com>
Subject: 601 with O-235
Date: Oct 06, 2007
Anybody out there have experience with the 601 XL with an O-235 in it? If so what are your impressions? I know the usefull load is less and the duration shorter, what else do I need to know. Regards Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601 with O-235
Date: Oct 06, 2007
From: passpat(at)aol.com
I think its a great combo what little weight you lose is well made up for in other area's Pat -----Original Message----- From: Woody sulloway <sulloway(at)clis.com> Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 7:50 pm Subject: Zenith-List: 601 with O-235 Anybody out there have experience with the 601 XL with an O-235 in it? ? If so what are your impressions? I know the usefull load is less and the duration shorter, what else do I need to know. ? Regards Woody ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2007
Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
In a message dated 10/3/2007 1:33:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org writes: No, those numbers are not way off. They're right on the money. I have spent $1,200 - $1,300 to build a rudder, the elevator, the stabilizer, and the left wing not including the ailerons including rivets from Zenith. Nothing unsafe about it. The parts are to spec per the plans. Just off the top of my head, I'd say I've used about 7 sheets of 4 x 12 6061-T6 in various thinknesses. A sheet from Aircraft spruce is about $90. So right there we're looking at about $650 for 85% of the materials required for those parts. Add in $350 for my 8' bending brake and we're up to $1,600 - $1,700. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 06, 2007
So how are you guys doing your nose skins and upper skins on your wings...? I do the "assemble, drill, disassemble, deburr, cortec, re-assemble" process as well, but in many cases you have to continue by building upon a portion of the structure that's already completed. I think the masking tape idea sounds like the best "real world" solution so far. Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138569#138569 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2007
Subject: Re: Zenith building expense
I don't know how that last message got sent but I didn't mean to send it........ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair
Date: Oct 06, 2007
Read the archives ,everything you wish to know on the 701/vair subject is in there. Or if you still have trouble finding the info you need send me a note off list, I'm not going to stir the pot again on this subject. John ----- Original Message ----- From: kmccune To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:54 PM Subject: Zenith-List: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair OK the corvair weighs around 230lbs with electric starting. Zenith states 200lbs for engine. Is this a weight and balance issue or a firewall/airframe stress issue? Or something else that I have not considered? I can't spend 16k on an engine. The VW redive looks good, and the water cooled head is even better. But I can't get an answer out of the G**** P*****s as to the performance of the water colling. I know that there are 701s with Corvair engine out there. Can you guys chime in? Thanks Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138529#138529 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MaxNr(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Subject: Re: 601 with O-235
Couldn't tell you how it flies, still building. I chose the Lyc because I happened to have one on hand along with a McCaully prop. Other wise my next choice would be the Corvair first, the Jab 3300 next, then the Cont O-200. My engine/prop (O235 C2C and 71/54) came from a Grumman American AA-1, so that will make the test program simpler. I may re-engine later. The engine has a good reputation. The O-235 was certified in 1940. The 235 C2C has a 6.75:1 compression ratio and has a 2400 HR TBO. The latest Lyc Operators Manual gives the weight as 244 with the old heavy starter and generator. Rated power is 115 at 2800. Grumman American dialed it back to 108/2600 for noise certification. No Max Continuos Power (MCP) listed. Only 5 minute limits are for CHT. It will run on cheap booze (for a little while). Some XL builders are using the O-290 at about the same size & weight. The 601 will do better than a GA AA-1 because it has 3 feet more span, more wing area and has a 200lb lighter empty weight. Never flown one. To compare apples to oranges, see FAA home page and look up Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) "A11EA" for the AA1. Also compare at: http://www.grumman.net/cgrcc/aa1compare.html They kind of look alike from a distance. Bob from Pace, FL ************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair
From: "zedvair" <mike.zedvair(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
A possibility might be to wait for the CH750, which is reportedly bigger than the CH701, and might be a better candidate for the Corvair. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138591#138591 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701 and Corvair
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
I hate that! :o Last night I searched for corvair and 701 but I couldn't find a single topic. This morning they pop up... well like pop corn. :) Guess I had typing problems last night. Thanks -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138592#138592 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Subject: Jabiru engine choughing
Hey guys/gals: I purchased a Jabiru powered CH 601 HD last week (in California). I did not have any problems flying it home (Central Florida) But when I went out yesterday, the engine wants to cough every minute or so. It really gets your attention. I have removed the cowling, checked the fuel for any foreign matter and looked carefully over all the engine connections to ensure that nothing has come loose or changed. So far it looks great. I must admit that I do not know what to check next. I was told prior to the purchase that the carburetor has the modifications for the leaner burn, and it ran great on the way home. Over 25 hours up at altitude (11,500 or 9,500) and burned about 4.5 gallons per hour at around 1400 degrees EGT. What do the Jabiru engine experts suggest? Thanks Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Bending leading edge skin
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Hello group ,yes it can be done the same as the Sonex .This morning I was amazed at how easy it was to form the leading edge skin using the vacuum method .It only took about one hour with the help of my lovely wife . The results are very satisfactory. Wade Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru engine coughing
Date: Oct 07, 2007
What do the Jabiru engine experts suggest? Thanks Lynn Hi Lynn, I won't claim any expertise with the 3300 but I really enjoy mine. Why not contact Andy Silvester, your local distributor in FL, to ask him. Andy is always tactful and thorough in his answers and usually prompt. He will be the person you'll need for replacement parts and advice through your Jab flying days. http://www.suncoastjabiru.com/> A phone call Monday would be ideal. My suggestion would be you check all fuel strainers (if any) and especially the gascolator screen for foreign matter. Check the coil to magnets gap on both coils - should be .010. Go to Pete's valuable info site http://www.usjabiru.com/technical-tips.html ical-tips.html> and see if the "idle adjustment" settings are correct. Is this a "newer" engine with hydraulic lifters? If solid lifters, when did previous owner do last adjustment? How many hours on engine? Any possibility of water in gas since you're now in FL? best of luck jeff HDS/3300 305 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Subject: Fwd: Jabiru engine coughing
-----------------------------1191777048-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Has anyone used a 3rd smaller tank in the fuselage, by plumbing both wing tanks to it and the plumbing this to the engine? It would only take a couple of gallons or less. And if you made the tank tall and narrow and place the outlet on the bottom, then most maneuvers would not effect fuel flow. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138649#138649 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Subject: RE: Jabiru engine coughing
Hey Jeff: I forgot to include in my first message that I had checked the magnetos (New coils, rotors and caps less than 50 hours ago) and they showed about 15 RPM drop per side, but the engine did the same thing on left, right or both mags. The engine is the older, solid lifter variety and the previous owner states, as well as his log book entries, that the lifter clearances have been checked. I did not find any water in the fuel. The engine has less than 150 hours since new. Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Questions on regs for E-AB Aircraft
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Two regulatory questions on E-AB aircraft for all the reg guru's: 1. Are E-AB aircraft required to carry an ELT? 2. Is it legal to sell a portion of your E-AB aircraft in the interest of creating a partnership, even if the new partner has not contributed to the aircraft's construction? Thanks for any responses. Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138670#138670 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Questions on regs for E-AB Aircraft
Date: Oct 07, 2007
yes to both questions. George May 601xl 912s 162 hours> Subject: Zenith-List: Questions on regs for E-AB Airc raft> From: djg7(at)comcast.net> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 18:15:56 -0700> To: zen 7(at)comcast.net>> > Two regulatory questions on E-AB aircraft for all the reg guru's:> > 1. Are E-AB aircraft required to carry an ELT?> > 2. Is it lega l to sell a portion of your E-AB aircraft in the interest of creating a par tnership, even if the new partner has not contributed to the aircraft's con struction?> > Thanks for any responses.> > Dan Ginty> > > > > Read this top ic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138670#138 =================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc t ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: aileron trim kit
Date: Oct 07, 2007
After getting all the in put from the "Heavy Wing Subject" It would appear to me the best avenue to take is the aileron trim kit from zenith . It appears that weight , fuel, balance is always going to be a on going issue. It would better to just touch a switch an keep every thing in balance. Any body know what the kit goes for ? Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on regs for E-AB Aircraft
From: "zedvair" <mike.zedvair(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > yes to both questions. > > technically "no" to the first, if the e-ab happens to be a single seat aircraft. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138674#138674 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: aileron trim kit
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Lists for $330 on the Zenith website. I think that would be your cost whether it is ordered as an option when you buy the wing kit, the entire kit, or as an afterthought. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: aileron trim kit After getting all the in put from the "Heavy Wing Subject" It would appear to me the best avenue to take is the aileron trim kit from zenith . It appears that weight , fuel, balance is always going to be a on going issue. It would better to just touch a switch an keep every thing in balance. Any body know what the kit goes for ? Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Getting all the little Chips out
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Like Debo I too assemble everything and drill everything to final rivet size. Then it all gets taken apart, deburred, wiped down with alcohol or lacquer thinner, then I use a two part self etching primer. Let it dry 24hrs then reassemble it and rivet. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138682#138682 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: aileron trim kit
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Thanks Dred, N101HD Joe ----- Original Message ----- Do not arc. From: Edward Moody II To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: aileron trim kit Lists for $330 on the Zenith website. I think that would be your cost whether it is ordered as an option when you buy the wing kit, the entire kit, or as an afterthought. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Southern Reflections To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: aileron trim kit After getting all the in put from the "Heavy Wing Subject" It would appear to me the best avenue to take is the aileron trim kit from zenith . It appears that weight , fuel, balance is always going to be a on going issue. It would better to just touch a switch an keep every thing in balance. Any body know what the kit goes for ? Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Can you send me some more pics of the skin? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1(at)shawneelink.net>
Subject: Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701
Date: Oct 07, 2007
My 2 cents worth. I think you will regret it if you put a 230 lb engine on your 701. My Suzuki weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs. I had to put 30 pounds of ballast as far aft as I could to eliminate a nose heavy condition and lack of up elevator authority. In the process, what with the extra 50 lbs of engine and the 30 pounds of ballast, I have lost 80 lbs of useable load. The empty airplane weighs 0ver 700 lbs. So, with a full fuel load and my 190 lbs, I can carry a 90 lb passenger. The trade off, of course, is less fuel and less range. Jim Fosse CH 701 N329F Goreville, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Jabiru engine coughing
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Lynn, Don't know if it will help, but I once had the terminal end of one of my spark plugs (the little screw on tip) come completely loose. I noticed it when I removed the plug wire and saw the threaded end where the tip screws on. The tip was still in the plug wire boot end. I had had a "more than normal" rpm drop on a mag check (usually it is not really noticeable) and was going to check my plugs to see if one was fouling. I have found some of the terminal tip ends loose during my preventative maintenance checks and now always make sure they are all tightened. Could you better describe the conditions under which the cough occurs? Could you also better define the "cough"? And of course, if you do find the problem. please let us all know the corrective action. Based on my experience, I believe you are really going to like flying behind the Jab. Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL; JAB 3300A; N493TG; 304 hours ---------- Subject: RE: Jabiru engine coughing From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com Date: Sun Oct 07 - 4:42 PM Hey Jeff: I forgot to include in my first message that I had checked the magnetos (New coils, rotors and caps less than 50 hours ago) and they showed about 15 RPM drop per side, but the engine did the same thing on left, right or both mags. The engine is the older, solid lifter variety and the previous owner states, as well as his log book entries, that the lifter clearances have been checked. I did not find any water in the fuel. The engine has less than 150 hours since new. Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 07, 2007
From: xl <xl(at)prosody.org>
Subject: Re: Jabiru engine choughing
My carb caused 'coughing'. Take a look at the following post and let me know if it helped. In short, the slide was dirty + needed to be cleaned. http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=47830?KEYS=carburetor?LISTNAME=Jabiru?HITNUMBER=3?SERIAL=2243271361 Joe @ BFI N633Z, CH601XL Jabiru 3300, 492 hours On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com wrote: > Hey guys/gals: I purchased a Jabiru powered CH 601 HD last week (in > California). I did not have any problems flying it home (Central Florida) But when I > went out yesterday, the engine wants to cough every minute or so. It really > gets your attention. > I have removed the cowling, checked the fuel for any foreign matter and > looked carefully over all the engine connections to ensure that nothing has > come loose or changed. So far it looks great. I must admit that I do not know > what to check next. > I was told prior to the purchase that the carburetor has the > modifications for the leaner burn, and it ran great on the way home. Over 25 hours up at > altitude (11,500 or 9,500) and burned about 4.5 gallons per hour at around > 1400 degrees EGT. > What do the Jabiru engine experts suggest? > Thanks > Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Thanks kevin, if I was doing it again I would probably construct an extra tall ZAC gascolator. The drawings call for the gascolator(s) - two for the long range tanks option - to be fabricated from a rectangular section aluminum extrusion with end caps welded top and bottom. Would need to fit the outlet at the normal standoff distance from the drain valve. Because my aircraft didnt come with the gascolator parts I purchased an ACS one with mesh filter Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138716#138716 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Kevin ; The early 701 had that option , it was called "D" tank . It was used in Conbination with the then optional wing tanks and allowed space for avionics. kmccune wrote: > Has anyone used a 3rd smaller tank in the fuselage, by plumbing both wing tanks to it and the plumbing this to the engine? It would only take a couple of gallons or less. And if you made the tank tall and narrow and place the outlet on the bottom, then most maneuvers would not effect fuel flow. > > Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138720#138720 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Subject: Re: Jabiru engine choughing
Thanks for the tip, Joe: I will get some carburetor cleaner this morning and see what I can find. Lynn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Yes I will send some pictures and details if you will contact me at wjones(at)brazoriainet.com . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending leading edge skin Can you send me some more pics of the skin? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Getting all the little Chips out
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com>
How are you guys getting all the little aluminum chips & bits out...? To All... When it comes to removing those pesky little chips, one can buy a chip remover and turn loose of some hard earned cash, or..... get hold of an old hack saw blade. Using a small grinder, bench mounted is best for control, and grind all the teeth off of about six inches on one end. Then use the grinder to notch that end to sort of a hook. Then, carefully, grind it on the flat sides to make it thinner than it already is. This thin hook will reach into those small angles and remove most, if not all, of the chips. Cheap and effective. Rick Beckman Midwest Mudworks Zodie 601 XL 52EB www.sharbo.us/thebird ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Would a shop vac do that, or does it require a vacuum pump? Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138728#138728 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
I had heard that they came with a cowl tank, is this the same or did the cowl tank get replaced by wing tanks. Sorry, just trying to get it straight. Any idea how much the D tank held? Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138729#138729 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Hi Kevin shop vac works great . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending leading edge skin > > Would a shop vac do that, or does it require a vacuum pump? > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138728#138728 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl" <cgbrt(at)mondenet.com>
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 07, 2007
Kevin. I installed an 8 litre collector behind the baggage compartment four years ago. Both wings feed through the collector. It is tall and narrow with a gascolator on the bottom that drains through the bottom fuselage skin. A float sensor in the top lights a low fuel warning as soon as the fuel level starts to go down in the collector giving me a no s--- 30 minute reserve. I also have a vertical sight gauge with a black cork float to make it easier to read. It works well and I can safely burn the wing tanks dry without fuel feed interruption to the Rotax 912. Carl 701 on amphibs 476 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 4:17 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel > > Has anyone used a 3rd smaller tank in the fuselage, by plumbing both wing > tanks to it and the plumbing this to the engine? It would only take a > couple of gallons or less. And if you made the tank tall and narrow and > place the outlet on the bottom, then most maneuvers would not effect fuel > flow. > > Kevin > > -------- > Kevin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138649#138649 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Hi Kevin ; No it was a separate option when you wanted either more range or space for avionics. I have parts of a 1990 info pack , it doesn't say how many gal the D tank had , maybe zac has option drawings for that . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138736#138736 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's limits to get power out of it. For a comparison though, the engine in my Hyundai Elantra sees 3100 rpm in 5th gear at 65mph. If that engine were light enough to use as an aircraft engine, I'd redline it at 3100. 7 years of highway driveway with no problems indicates that's an ok speed for that engine. In comparison, years ago I had a Datsun B-210 that was a 4 speed and turned about 4000 rpm at 60mph, even so, it ran for years no problem. I know for a fact that Chevy 350s when used it boating applications (and they need to be dependable) turn 4 and change, so apparently these engines are capable of putting out that kind of power for extended periods of time. But just off the top of my head, you run an auto conversion at rpms it would have seen on the street at 60mph or less and that puppy will last quite awhile. 100,000 miles at 55mph is about 1,800 hours. I would guess a Corvair in 5th gear doing 55mph would turn the engine about 2500rpm, under an Chevy engineered load. Just as some basic starting numbers, that sounds totally realistic to me with proper cooling and routine maintenance. Here's and interesting side note too, the Corvair is a more naturally balance engine compared to a 4 cylinder O-200. Not only that, but with those two extra cylinders, for the same power output, each of those cylinders has less stress on it. Just an interesting side note, having used a 140 Evinrude for years, I have a better appreciation for overstressed designs. The 140 is the same block, bore and stroke as the 90hp, but the heads are different to up the compression. The 140 is the most problematic of the bunch. Go back to a 90hp is step up to the 6-cylinder 150hp and there's a lot less problems. People swear by the old 150s. Low stress engine. larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: > Good discussion guys, > Popular auto conversions for aircraft require more builder > decision-making on ignition, carburetor's and cooling. Statistically, > numbers prove that the conversions have a broader range of solutions to > deal with like selecting carbs, coils and radiators. Too many ?brilliant > type-As? are reluctant to employ successful aircraft and engine > solutions of previous builders. Most people fear doing a conversion, but > don?t blame the engine, be it a Subaru, Corvair, Ford or Chevy. These > are great engines! It is the builder that repeatedly makes the mistakes > and the most onerous statistics would point to the conversion engines > when they should point to the less than responsible builder. > I'd like to think of it as a kind of a Darwinist plan for improving > aircraft builder intellect and capability. > > Think, build and then fly safe, > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > Gig Giacona wrote: > > > Nobody is saying you need to choose one but to attack those that choose to use, say a Corvair, as being in some way less safe than you is going to piss a lot of people off and cause them to discount anything you have to say on any topic. > > > > > > > Gig - > > > > > > I agree with that. > > > > > > Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is increased > > > by using them for purposes other than that which they were designed. > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138740#138740 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Even if you went with a Lyc, you can still get one a lot cheaper. Anyone here think of ariboat engines? I noticed year5s ago they use aircraft engines, and they're generally less expensive. If I needed a new Lycoming for a CH801 http://www.westernskyways.com/gator_engines.asp $12,000, sweet! Bet you could get gator engines to scrounge up and rebuild a O-200 for you for $10,000 or less. Them apparently have access to a bunch of cheap Lycomings. And if they can't there's probably a thousand airboat junkyards from Texas to Georgia and down to Everglades City that could find one for you, rebuild it and sell it to you for that price. O-235, $3,600 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=280157388698 -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138745#138745 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Auto Conversion Discussion.
At 06:13 AM 10/8/2007, you wrote: >Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an >auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's >limits to get power out of it. Hi Andy, Your discussion of suitability for aircraft use seems to focus only on reliability. I agree this is an important aspect of engine choice for your airplane, but there are many other issues to consider. When you put it all together, I believe airplane use is the most difficult environment for any engine. That leaves me thinking an engine designed for airplane use is going to exceed the value of a similar technology engine designed for a simpler environment. Besides the reliability issue (which indeed should be at the top of the list), there is: 1. Engine weight. Any additional pound robs the airplane of performance in virtually all areas. It certainly impacts useful load, climb performance, and probably airspeed. 2. Availability of fuel and spare parts while on cross country trips. It is easy to get repairs or suitable fuel for aircraft engines at any airport with "Services". The auto fuel desirable for auto engines is rarely available at remote airports, and auto engine spare parts are a bigger problem. 3. Extra engine systems. Many auto conversions require water cooling systems and PSRUs. I believe purpose built airplane engines never include these features. Extra parts means extra failure possibilities and extra weight. 4. Propeller choices. Many propeller suppliers can easily provide a nearly ideal product for airplane engines used in common performance envelopes. When using a conversion, the builder must go through all the calculations and experimentation to find a propeller that works well. I am not sure if the torque curve of an auto engine matches well with the needs of a propeller, but an airplane engine certainly is designed to meet this requirement. I'm sure there are lots of other issues to consider. This doesn't mean I don't approve of conversion engine use in airplanes. It just means I think the additional issues and problems might make the savings in initial cost a somewhat false economy. For those who want to enjoy flying and high performance, I think the purpose built airplane engine is the best choice. Paul XL fuselage Jab -3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Go to infi(at)ramengines.com see what is done to those engines---the only part that is Subaru is the block, and it is not stock in any way .I think it will out perform and out last any thing out there, so I can't see how you can paint all these auto converts with a broad brush . Mabye if you're talking about going to a junk yard and draging aE 81 out putting some kind of a re drive on it and calling it a auto converson That's what you're talking about.! You are giving auto converts a bad rap,and turn you are not giving the people that are asking for real info a fair shake . Read the Spec's and then give us your Long winded responce. Anxious N101HD 601XL RAMOriginal Message ----- From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response > > Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an > auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's limits to > get power out of it. For a comparison though, the engine in my Hyundai > Elantra sees 3100 rpm in 5th gear at 65mph. If that engine were light > enough to use as an aircraft engine, I'd redline it at 3100. 7 years of > highway driveway with no problems indicates that's an ok speed for that > engine. In comparison, years ago I had a Datsun B-210 that was a 4 speed > and turned about 4000 rpm at 60mph, even so, it ran for years no problem. > I know for a fact that Chevy 350s when used it boating applications (and > they need to be dependable) turn 4 and change, so apparently these engines > are capable of putting out that kind of power for extended periods of > time. But just off the top of my head, you run an auto conversion at rpms > it would have seen on the street at 60mph or less and that puppy will last > quite awhile. 100,000 miles at 55mph is about 1,800 h! > ours. I would guess a Corvair in 5th gear doing 55mph would turn the > engine about 2500rpm, under an Chevy engineered load. Just as some basic > starting numbers, that sounds totally realistic to me with proper cooling > and routine maintenance. > > Here's and interesting side note too, the Corvair is a more naturally > balance engine compared to a 4 cylinder O-200. Not only that, but with > those two extra cylinders, for the same power output, each of those > cylinders has less stress on it. Just an interesting side note, having > used a 140 Evinrude for years, I have a better appreciation for > overstressed designs. The 140 is the same block, bore and stroke as the > 90hp, but the > heads are different to up the compression. The 140 is the most problematic > of the bunch. Go back to a 90hp is step up to the 6-cylinder 150hp and > there's a lot less problems. People swear by the old 150s. Low stress > engine. > > > larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: >> Good discussion guys, >> Popular auto conversions for aircraft require more builder >> decision-making on ignition, carburetor's and cooling. Statistically, >> numbers prove that the conversions have a broader range of solutions to >> deal with like selecting carbs, coils and radiators. Too many ?brilliant >> type-As? are reluctant to employ successful aircraft and engine >> solutions of previous builders. Most people fear doing a conversion, but >> don?t blame the engine, be it a Subaru, Corvair, Ford or Chevy. These >> are great engines! It is the builder that repeatedly makes the mistakes >> and the most onerous statistics would point to the conversion engines >> when they should point to the less than responsible builder. >> I'd like to think of it as a kind of a Darwinist plan for improving >> aircraft builder intellect and capability. >> >> Think, build and then fly safe, >> >> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> >> >> Gig Giacona wrote: >> >> > Nobody is saying you need to choose one but to attack those that >> > choose to use, say a Corvair, as being in some way less safe than you >> > is going to piss a lot of people off and cause them to discount >> > anything you have to say on any topic. >> > >> > >> > > Gig - >> > > >> > > I agree with that. >> > > >> > > Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is >> > > increased >> > > by using them for purposes other than that which they were designed. >> > > >> > > Jeff >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138740#138740 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
http://www.southernairboat.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1529/cat/2 $4,400, take the engine, resell the hull. Appears to be an O-235 on there. $1,000 POS. Who cares. Looks like an O-200. http://www.southernairboat.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1568/cat/2 Apparently these good old boys have access to Lyc parts fairly cheap. From the looks of their backyards they don't look like they're rolling in cash. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138749#138749 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
'Nother source for cheap engines. http://terf.com/AircraftEngines.html -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138750#138750 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Can you easily get Jabiru parts at any airport? I'd have to imagine you'd probably wait awhile to even get in a Lycoming part. As far as weight goes, I'd never consider using something that weighs too much. Agreed, there are a lot of factors involved with choice of airplane engines, not just reliability. Personally, I'd find it extremely inconvenient to break down anywhere with any airplane engine. 9 times out of 10 when you hear about someone with a breakdown (provided they landed ok), it's a week and a half long debacle before the plane is home and they've had a look-see inside. Regarding fuel, from my understanding, you could more easily operate an auto-engine on 100LL than you can the other way around. A guy in our local EAA chapter has his Lycoming rated for auto fuel use, but still runs 100LL in it from time to time with no problems. He's a chemical engineer and comes at the problem from a very technical perspective. I'm not a big fan on water-cooled engines for airplanes, but they do exist and have even been used on WWII fighter planes. For a full perspective on the pros and cons and viability of aircraft engines I recommend everyone read Converting Auto Engines for Experimental Aircraft. http://www.amazon.com/Converting-Auto-Engines-Experimental-Aircraft/dp/0966145712 Excellent book to keep in the bathroom. This guy doesn't push one way or the other or for any particular type of engine, he just gives a really detailed description of how auto engines can be converted as well and safety, reliability, how to, pros and cons, etc... It's not a "I'm right, you're wrong book", it just gives some pretty convincing detailed, technical arguments for auto-engines for use in airplanes. psm(at)ATT.NET wrote: > At 06:13 AM 10/8/2007, you wrote: > > > Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an > > auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's > > limits to get power out of it. > > > > > > Hi Andy, > > Your discussion of suitability for aircraft use seems to focus only > on reliability. I agree this is an important aspect of engine choice > for your airplane, but there are many other issues to consider. When > you put it all together, I believe airplane use is the most difficult > environment for any engine. That leaves me thinking an engine > designed for airplane use is going to exceed the value of a similar > technology engine designed for a simpler environment. > > Besides the reliability issue (which indeed should be at the top of > the list), there is: > 1. Engine weight. Any additional pound robs the airplane of > performance in virtually all areas. It certainly impacts useful > load, climb performance, and probably airspeed. > 2. Availability of fuel and spare parts while on cross country > trips. It is easy to get repairs or suitable fuel for aircraft > engines at any airport with "Services". The auto fuel desirable for > auto engines is rarely available at remote airports, and auto engine > spare parts are a bigger problem. > 3. Extra engine systems. Many auto conversions require water > cooling systems and PSRUs. I believe purpose built airplane engines > never include these features. Extra parts means extra failure > possibilities and extra weight. > 4. Propeller choices. Many propeller suppliers can easily provide a > nearly ideal product for airplane engines used in common performance > envelopes. When using a conversion, the builder must go through all > the calculations and experimentation to find a propeller that works > well. I am not sure if the torque curve of an auto engine matches > well with the needs of a propeller, but an airplane engine certainly > is designed to meet this requirement. > > I'm sure there are lots of other issues to consider. This doesn't > mean I don't approve of conversion engine use in airplanes. It just > means I think the additional issues and problems might make the > savings in initial cost a somewhat false economy. For those who want > to enjoy flying and high performance, I think the purpose built > airplane engine is the best choice. > > Paul > XL fuselage > Jab -3300 -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138762#138762 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In lite of the recent price discussion...CH 701
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
That and you have to limit your girlfriends to 4'10" 90lb spinners. That sucks. LOL I feel for you. jfosse1(at)shawneelink.ne wrote: > My 2 cents worth. I think you will regret it if you put a 230 lb engine on > your 701. My Suzuki weighs in the neighborhood of 200 lbs. I had to put 30 > pounds of ballast as far aft as I could to eliminate a nose heavy condition > and lack of up elevator authority. In the process, what with the extra 50 > lbs of engine and the 30 pounds of ballast, I have lost 80 lbs of useable > load. The empty airplane weighs 0ver 700 lbs. So, with a full fuel load > and my 190 lbs, I can carry a 90 lb passenger. The trade off, of course, > is less fuel and less range. > > Jim Fosse > CH 701 N329F > Goreville, IL -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138766#138766 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
1. The Corvair converted is heavier than a Rotax ot Jabiru but about the same as an O-200 or O-235. 2. I plan to burn 100LL in my Corvair but I have the option of running Mogas. Most of the parts I would have to replace away from my home field can be purchased at Auto-Zone. Where are you going to get Jab, Rotax, Lyc or Cont. parts when you are at (enter small field name here)? 3. The Rotax has both. 4. There are a wide range of props to choose from and when I call Sensinich (sp?) and told them what I was putting it on they asked two questions and told me where to send the check. psm(at)ATT.NET wrote: > Your discussion of suitability for aircraft use seems to focus only > on reliability. I agree this is an important aspect of engine choice > for your airplane, but there are many other issues to consider. When > you put it all together, I believe airplane use is the most difficult > environment for any engine. That leaves me thinking an engine > designed for airplane use is going to exceed the value of a similar > technology engine designed for a simpler environment. > > Besides the reliability issue (which indeed should be at the top of > the list), there is: > 1. Engine weight. Any additional pound robs the airplane of > performance in virtually all areas. It certainly impacts useful > load, climb performance, and probably airspeed. > 2. Availability of fuel and spare parts while on cross country > trips. It is easy to get repairs or suitable fuel for aircraft > engines at any airport with "Services". The auto fuel desirable for > auto engines is rarely available at remote airports, and auto engine > spare parts are a bigger problem. > 3. Extra engine systems. Many auto conversions require water > cooling systems and PSRUs. I believe purpose built airplane engines > never include these features. Extra parts means extra failure > possibilities and extra weight. > 4. Propeller choices. Many propeller suppliers can easily provide a > nearly ideal product for airplane engines used in common performance > envelopes. When using a conversion, the builder must go through all > the calculations and experimentation to find a propeller that works > well. I am not sure if the torque curve of an auto engine matches > well with the needs of a propeller, but an airplane engine certainly > is designed to meet this requirement. > > I'm sure there are lots of other issues to consider. This doesn't > mean I don't approve of conversion engine use in airplanes. It just > means I think the additional issues and problems might make the > savings in initial cost a somewhat false economy. For those who want > to enjoy flying and high performance, I think the purpose built > airplane engine is the best choice. > > Paul > XL fuselage > Jab -3300 -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138778#138778 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions on regs for E-AB Aircraft
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Great. Thanks for the replies. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138779#138779 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 Fuel System with Rotax 912S
From: "txpilot" <djg7(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
I have a couple questions regarding the fuel system. According to the Rotax installation manual, a return line is required from the fuel manifold back to the fuel tank. I spoke with ZAC about this since the 701 plans make no mention of this return line. They said the return line is not necessary if you're running 100LL because of the reduced chance of vapor lock. Although I plan on running only 100LL, I'm wondering if any other builders are installing a return fuel line. If there are builders installing return lines, do you go to a wing tank or to the gascolator? I spoke with my EAA tech adviser and he wasn't sure. He did make another suggestion: use stainless steel fuel lines instead of the supplied 1/4" rubber hose. That leads me to another question for the forum: are there any builders experiencing problems with their rubber hose fuel lines, or are stainless steel fuel lines an overkill? Thanks, Dan Ginty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138777#138777 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: Aileron trim wiring?
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Gang: To make wing closing and final assembly easier, and perhaps necessary future maintenance, I am planning put a Molex connector in the aileron trim cable. My idea would be to leave enough attached to the aileron to come into the wing and make a small maintenance loop, then the connector. Connector will be accessed through the same panel as the bellcrank. Anyone see any problem with this approach? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
i did see some pics on the website from the open day and i liked very much the 601xl from Mike Canion. I would be interested in the wing root fairings does anyone no how to contact him or how I could get some of those fairings thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138793#138793 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/237_182.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Aileron trim wiring?
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Another approach is to not run the wire inside the wing. I have seen it run up under the top skin along the rear spar between the spar and the aileron/flaps. I think this was on Dragonfly Aviation's 601XL. They may have done this if the trim was a retrofit and the couldn't/wouldn't open the wing.. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron trim wiring?
Date: Oct 08, 2007
None at all Andy. It will give you peace of mind vis a vis repair / replacement a any future point of need.The electrical amp hours are so minimal for a tim servo that an aditionla connector is not likely to have a down side except to lock the halves together before buttoning up that area. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron trim wiring? Gang: To make wing closing and final assembly easier, and perhaps necessary future maintenance, I am planning put a Molex connector in the aileron trim cable. My idea would be to leave enough attached to the aileron to come into the wing and make a small maintenance loop, then the connector. Connector will be accessed through the same panel as the bellcrank. Anyone see any problem with this approach? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/7/2007 6:12 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron trim wiring?
Date: Oct 08, 2007
None at all Andy. It will give you peace of mind vis a vis repair / replacement a any future point of need.The electrical amp hours are so minimal for a tim servo that an aditionla connector is not likely to have a down side except to lock the halves together before buttoning up that area. Dred ----- Original Message ----- From: Dr. Andrew Elliott To: Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron trim wiring? Gang: To make wing closing and final assembly easier, and perhaps necessary future maintenance, I am planning put a Molex connector in the aileron trim cable. My idea would be to leave enough attached to the aileron to come into the wing and make a small maintenance loop, then the connector. Connector will be accessed through the same panel as the bellcrank. Anyone see any problem with this approach? Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 10/7/2007 6:12 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron trim wiring?
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
It should work OK, at least I hope so, because I am doing basically the same thing. I am using a 9-pin d-sub connector as suggested by Bob Nuckhols. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138804#138804 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Contact Magazine
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
http://www.contactmagazine.com/contact1.html Does anyone receive this? This looks like what the old EAA Experimenter magazine used to be before they stopped publishing it and instead started putting on the new glossy ad filled rag. -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138813#138813 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Date: Oct 08, 2007
> If auto conversions are such a great thing to use in airplanes, then why don't the airplane manufacturers (Cessna, Piper, etc.) use them? They do. Cessna and Diamond use the Thielert Diesels. Would you fly behind (or in front of) a Jabiru? Because Cessna etc don't use Jabiru either. But if certified aircraft are your standard then why are you building an experimental? -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Gig, Id ask Zenith if there were any areas of the 701 that might need beefing up in using a Corvair. The Corvairs ability to pull the 701 past its Vne would give me the most concern. Being able to so easily fly into the aircrafts restricted maneuvering speed is a worry Id share with Zenith before committing this engine to the 701. The availability of auto fuel is not an issue with the Subaru or the Corvair as either can burn 100LL. The Corvair is the best alternative to the Jab 3300, no question, provided its on the right aircraft. Spare parts are a lesser concern with Auto Zone or O'Reilly's nearby. Try to find a Lyc cylinder locally that's affordable. Most people dont know that the Subaru originally was originally designed to be an aircraft engine and when the aircraft market softened, it was remarketed as a car engine. Coolant systems are not a deficit item; otherwise cars and formerly noisy air-cooled motorcycles today would have evolved to air-cooling. The auto engine has a harder run environment, is quieter and controls its heat to a better degree. Aircraft engines are becoming more efficient because of the addition of coolant systems that were common in the 30s and 40s. Think Merlin, Rolls, Allison etc, and recently Rotax and a host of others carry coolant. I believe radiators will ultimately become the norm and air-cooling the exception. The need to conserve fuel, reduce noise and get more hours on an engine is what is bringing on the current transition to coolant systems. Their reliability in cars is taken for granted with proper maintenance. Gyros use the Subaru with good economy, reliability at slower speeds, heavier loading and harsher environments. The current expensive air-cooled engines are expensive because they have such a large temperature range in which to work. Their high cost and life span are controlled by low- volume production and necessarily larger tolerance parts closest to the fire The purpose-built engine is being produced as we speak and increasingly it is liquid-cooled. respectfully, Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Gig Giacona wrote: > > 1. The Corvair converted is heavier than a Rotax ot Jabiru but about the same as an O-200 or O-235. > > 2. I plan to burn 100LL in my Corvair but I have the option of running Mogas. Most of the parts I would have to replace away from my home field can be purchased at Auto-Zone. Where are you going to get Jab, Rotax, Lyc or Cont. parts when you are at (enter small field name here)? > > 3. The Rotax has both. > > 4. There are a wide range of props to choose from and when I call Sensinich (sp?) and told them what I was putting it on they asked two questions and told me where to send the check. > > > psm(at)ATT.NET wrote: > >> Your discussion of suitability for aircraft use seems to focus only >> on reliability. I agree this is an important aspect of engine choice >> for your airplane, but there are many other issues to consider. When >> you put it all together, I believe airplane use is the most difficult >> environment for any engine. That leaves me thinking an engine >> designed for airplane use is going to exceed the value of a similar >> technology engine designed for a simpler environment. >> >> Besides the reliability issue (which indeed should be at the top of >> the list), there is: >> 1. Engine weight. Any additional pound robs the airplane of >> performance in virtually all areas. It certainly impacts useful >> load, climb performance, and probably airspeed. >> 2. Availability of fuel and spare parts while on cross country >> trips. It is easy to get repairs or suitable fuel for aircraft >> engines at any airport with "Services". The auto fuel desirable for >> auto engines is rarely available at remote airports, and auto engine >> spare parts are a bigger problem. >> 3. Extra engine systems. Many auto conversions require water >> cooling systems and PSRUs. I believe purpose built airplane engines >> never include these features. Extra parts means extra failure >> possibilities and extra weight. >> 4. Propeller choices. Many propeller suppliers can easily provide a >> nearly ideal product for airplane engines used in common performance >> envelopes. When using a conversion, the builder must go through all >> the calculations and experimentation to find a propeller that works >> well. I am not sure if the torque curve of an auto engine matches >> well with the needs of a propeller, but an airplane engine certainly >> is designed to meet this requirement. >> >> I'm sure there are lots of other issues to consider. This doesn't >> mean I don't approve of conversion engine use in airplanes. It just >> means I think the additional issues and problems might make the >> savings in initial cost a somewhat false economy. For those who want >> to enjoy flying and high performance, I think the purpose built >> airplane engine is the best choice. >> >> Paul >> XL fuselage >> Jab -3300 >> > > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138778#138778 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Re: Contact Magazine
> Hi Andy, I've received Contact Magazine for several years and find their discussion of aircraft engines and mechanicals extremely well done. It would be regarded as somewhat expensive until you've read one whole magazine and found that it quenched your thirst for really fine writing and coverage of a subject. Exceedingly well done. The Experimenter never quite had the complete kind of coverage found in this Diamond of a magazine. > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ashontz wrote: http://www.contactmagazine.com/contact1.html > Does anyone receive this? This looks like what the old EAA Experimenter magazine used to be before they stopped publishing it and instead started putting on the new glossy ad filled rag. > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: george may <gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 701 Fuel System with Rotax 912S
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Dan-- Many rotax engines are run without a return line. The major reason for t he return line is to help avoid vapor lock when using autogas. I did insta ll a return line in the system on my 601xl because I mostly use autofuel. I f you usage of auto fuel is minimal, I'd skip the return line. You can ever go wrong using the stainless steel line in the engine compa rtment, but I personally think it is overkill for the mission of our planes . The rubber fuel line will suffice and if in doubt about they can be rela tively easily changed out every couple of years George May 601xl 912s 162 hrs> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Fuel System with Rotax 912S> From: djg7(at)comcast.net> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:07:07 -0700> To: zenith-l cast.net>> > I have a couple questions regarding the fuel system. According to the Rotax installation manual, a return line is required from the fuel manifold back to the fuel tank. I spoke with ZAC about this since the 701 p lans make no mention of this return line.> > They said the return line is n ot necessary if you're running 100LL because of the reduced chance of vapor lock. Although I plan on running only 100LL, I'm wondering if any other bu ilders are installing a return fuel line. If there are builders installing return lines, do you go to a wing tank or to the gascolator?> > I spoke wit h my EAA tech adviser and he wasn't sure. He did make another suggestion: u se stainless steel fuel lines instead of the supplied 1/4" rubber hose. Tha t leads me to another question for the forum: are there any builders experi encing problems with their rubber hose fuel lines, or are stainless steel f uel lines an overkill?> > Thanks,> > Dan Ginty> > > > > Read this topic onl ine here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138777#138777> > ===============> > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ' together at last. - Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062 6971033 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
If you get any info PLEASE pass it own to the rest of us. alex_01 wrote: > i did see some pics on the website from the open day and i liked very much the 601xl from Mike Canion. I would be interested in the wing root fairings does anyone no how to contact him or how I could get some of those fairings > > thanks -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138840#138840 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Larry, I'm not building a 701 so I'll leave that for someone that is and just for the record neither is Paul who I was responding to. I do know that William Wynne has communicated with Zenith about the Corvair 701 he is working on. I don't think you are really aiming the post at me but I never said (well at least not in this thread) that liquid cooling was a problem. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138841#138841 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Date: Oct 08, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response > Go to infi(at)ramengines.com see what is done to those engines---the only > part that is Subaru is the block, and it is not stock in any way .I > think it will out perform and out last any thing out there, so I can't see > how you can paint all these auto converts with a broad brush . Mabye if > you're talking about going to a junk yard and draging aE 81 out putting > some kind of a re drive on it and calling it a auto converson That's what > you're talking about.! You are giving auto converts a bad rap,and turn > you are not giving the people that are asking for real info a fair shake . > Read the Spec's and then give us your Long winded responce. Anxious > N101HD 601XL RAMOriginal Message ----- > From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:13 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response > > >> >> Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an >> auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's limits to >> get power out of it. For a comparison though, the engine in my Hyundai >> Elantra sees 3100 rpm in 5th gear at 65mph. If that engine were light >> enough to use as an aircraft engine, I'd redline it at 3100. 7 years of >> highway driveway with no problems indicates that's an ok speed for that >> engine. In comparison, years ago I had a Datsun B-210 that was a 4 speed >> and turned about 4000 rpm at 60mph, even so, it ran for years no problem. >> I know for a fact that Chevy 350s when used it boating applications (and >> they need to be dependable) turn 4 and change, so apparently these >> engines are capable of putting out that kind of power for extended >> periods of time. But just off the top of my head, you run an auto >> conversion at rpms it would have seen on the street at 60mph or less and >> that puppy will last quite awhile. 100,000 miles at 55mph is about 1,800 >> h! >> ours. I would guess a Corvair in 5th gear doing 55mph would turn the >> engine about 2500rpm, under an Chevy engineered load. Just as some basic >> starting numbers, that sounds totally realistic to me with proper cooling >> and routine maintenance. >> >> Here's and interesting side note too, the Corvair is a more naturally >> balance engine compared to a 4 cylinder O-200. Not only that, but with >> those two extra cylinders, for the same power output, each of those >> cylinders has less stress on it. Just an interesting side note, having >> used a 140 Evinrude for years, I have a better appreciation for >> overstressed designs. The 140 is the same block, bore and stroke as the >> 90hp, but the >> heads are different to up the compression. The 140 is the most >> problematic of the bunch. Go back to a 90hp is step up to the 6-cylinder >> 150hp and there's a lot less problems. People swear by the old 150s. Low >> stress engine. >> >> >> larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: >>> Good discussion guys, >>> Popular auto conversions for aircraft require more builder >>> decision-making on ignition, carburetor's and cooling. Statistically, >>> numbers prove that the conversions have a broader range of solutions to >>> deal with like selecting carbs, coils and radiators. Too many ?brilliant >>> type-As? are reluctant to employ successful aircraft and engine >>> solutions of previous builders. Most people fear doing a conversion, but >>> don?t blame the engine, be it a Subaru, Corvair, Ford or Chevy. These >>> are great engines! It is the builder that repeatedly makes the mistakes >>> and the most onerous statistics would point to the conversion engines >>> when they should point to the less than responsible builder. >>> I'd like to think of it as a kind of a Darwinist plan for improving >>> aircraft builder intellect and capability. >>> >>> Think, build and then fly safe, >>> >>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >>> >>> >>> Gig Giacona wrote: >>> >>> > Nobody is saying you need to choose one but to attack those that >>> > choose to use, say a Corvair, as being in some way less safe than you >>> > is going to piss a lot of people off and cause them to discount >>> > anything you have to say on any topic. >>> > >>> > >>> > > Gig - >>> > > >>> > > I agree with that. >>> > > >>> > > Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is >>> > > increased >>> > > by using them for purposes other than that which they were designed. >>> > > >>> > > Jeff >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> -------- >> Andy Shontz >> CH601XL - Corvair >> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138740#138740 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Thanks for all the good comments. It appears the 701 has a little over 20gal of usable fuel. Installing a "D" tank is more than I want to tackle. It appears to have merit and adds another level of safety. Another suggestion is to install individual fuel cutoffs on the two tanks. Run one dry and then quickly turn the other on. Not sure if intentionally stopping the engine while airborne is a good idea. Regards, Ken Arnold CH701 N701LK 91% ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Arnold To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 Usable Fuel I am close to finishing my 701. To measure usable fuel, I plan to fill the tanks, drain them thru the regular fuel lines while the plane is sitting on the ground. Seems this should provide reasonable estimate of usable fuel. I would appreciate any values other 701 flyers are using. Regards, Ken Arnold CH701 N701LK 90% ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
In April I took the EAA weekend course in composites. They explained how to do such things and I might consider trying it but it sure would be nice to buy them from someone ready made. The brake fairings are really nice! Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138850#138850 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Contact Magazine
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Cool, thanks. And here I thought Experimenter was good. [Wink] Sounds worth the money. I couldn't get enough of Experimenter and then they went and replaced it with Entertainment Tonight. larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: > > > Hi Andy, I've received Contact Magazine for several years and find their discussion of aircraft engines and mechanicals extremely well done. It would be regarded as somewhat expensive until you've read one whole magazine and found that it quenched your thirst for really fine writing and coverage of a subject. Exceedingly well done. The Experimenter never quite had the complete kind of coverage found in this Diamond of a magazine. > > > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > > ashontz wrote: > > > > > http://www.contactmagazine.com/contact1.html > > > > > > Does anyone receive this? This looks like what the old EAA Experimenter magazine used to be before they stopped publishing it and instead started putting on the new glossy ad filled rag. > > > > -------- > > Andy Shontz > > CH601XL - Corvair > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > > > > > > > -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138854#138854 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
They really make it look like a production plane. I like it. Wheel fairings too. Tim Juhl wrote: > In April I took the EAA weekend course in composites. They explained how to do such things and I might consider trying it but it sure would be nice to buy them from someone ready made. The brake fairings are really nice! > > Tim -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138855#138855 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Date: Oct 08, 2007
I HAVE asked Zenith !! Have reported it here on this list several times that Chris wrote back "use the Corvair,no airframe mods necessary". You certainly have to respect CG, gross weight, VNE etc etc etc. It will be a good combo ONLY if you get rabid about weight control on the engine and airframe however. If you load up on radios, instruments, upholstery, extra tanks, blah, blah it will be a 1 1/2 seat airplane. There is a big red line on the airspeed indicator that indicates VNE, when you get close to it you pull the throttle back if you are in level flight or pull the nose up if you are decending, simple. Have done it 2000 hrs on my RV, not hard to remember. The ONLY guy that has flown a 701/Vair has told me one of the reasons the plane is such a JOY to fly is the fact that cruise speed happens at such a low power setting that the engine is almost silent,and very smooth. He also mentioned that climb rate was very impressive. John Gig, I=92d ask Zenith if there were any areas of the 701 that might need beefing up in using a Corvair. The Corvair=92s ability to pull the 701 past its Vne would give me the most concern. Being able to so easily fly into the aircrafts restricted maneuvering speed is a worry I=92d share with Zenith before committing this engine to the 701. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
[quote="John Bolding"] The ONLY guy that has flown a 701/Vair has told me one of the reasons the plane is such a JOY to fly is the fact that cruise speed happens at such a low power setting that the engine is almost silent,and very smooth. He also mentioned that climb rate was very impressive. John > [b] :D -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138862#138862 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)Yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
But how do you polish fiberglass...? [Laughing] [Laughing] [Laughing] Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138868#138868 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Contact Magazine
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Been reading Contact for a couple years now. I won't let the subscription lapse. You can also order back issues. http://www.contactmagazine.com/ -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138873#138873 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Chat - http://chat.iahu.ca/index.php
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
http://chat.iahu.ca/index.php Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138876#138876 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Oh by the way I had 2- 350 chevs in a boat that turned 6800 rpm . for 30 to 40 mins. at atime and ran 5200 to5600 for hrs. no problems at all. It all goes back to who built the eng, and it wasn't someone who thought they were a eng. builder ,but a real eng. builder same with the subaru or any other eng. that you can think of... Anxious N101HD 601XL/RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net> > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:55 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded > response > > >> Go to infi(at)ramengines.com see what is done to those engines---the only >> part that is Subaru is the block, and it is not stock in any way .I >> think it will out perform and out last any thing out there, so I can't >> see how you can paint all these auto converts with a broad brush . Mabye >> if you're talking about going to a junk yard and draging aE 81 out >> putting some kind of a re drive on it and calling it a auto converson >> That's what you're talking about.! You are giving auto converts a bad >> rap,and turn you are not giving the people that are asking for real info >> a fair shake . Read the Spec's and then give us your Long winded >> responce. Anxious N101HD 601XL RAMOriginal Message ----- >> From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:13 AM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response >> >> >>> >>> Personally, about the only thing I can see as a problem with an >>> auto-conversion is if you're rally trying to push it past it's limits to >>> get power out of it. For a comparison though, the engine in my Hyundai >>> Elantra sees 3100 rpm in 5th gear at 65mph. If that engine were light >>> enough to use as an aircraft engine, I'd redline it at 3100. 7 years of >>> highway driveway with no problems indicates that's an ok speed for that >>> engine. In comparison, years ago I had a Datsun B-210 that was a 4 speed >>> and turned about 4000 rpm at 60mph, even so, it ran for years no >>> problem. I know for a fact that Chevy 350s when used it boating >>> applications (and they need to be dependable) turn 4 and change, so >>> apparently these engines are capable of putting out that kind of power >>> for extended periods of time. But just off the top of my head, you run >>> an auto conversion at rpms it would have seen on the street at 60mph or >>> less and that puppy will last quite awhile. 100,000 miles at 55mph is >>> about 1,800 h! >>> ours. I would guess a Corvair in 5th gear doing 55mph would turn the >>> engine about 2500rpm, under an Chevy engineered load. Just as some basic >>> starting numbers, that sounds totally realistic to me with proper >>> cooling and routine maintenance. >>> >>> Here's and interesting side note too, the Corvair is a more naturally >>> balance engine compared to a 4 cylinder O-200. Not only that, but with >>> those two extra cylinders, for the same power output, each of those >>> cylinders has less stress on it. Just an interesting side note, having >>> used a 140 Evinrude for years, I have a better appreciation for >>> overstressed designs. The 140 is the same block, bore and stroke as the >>> 90hp, but the >>> heads are different to up the compression. The 140 is the most >>> problematic of the bunch. Go back to a 90hp is step up to the 6-cylinder >>> 150hp and there's a lot less problems. People swear by the old 150s. Low >>> stress engine. >>> >>> >>> larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: >>>> Good discussion guys, >>>> Popular auto conversions for aircraft require more builder >>>> decision-making on ignition, carburetor's and cooling. Statistically, >>>> numbers prove that the conversions have a broader range of solutions to >>>> deal with like selecting carbs, coils and radiators. Too many >>>> ?brilliant >>>> type-As? are reluctant to employ successful aircraft and engine >>>> solutions of previous builders. Most people fear doing a conversion, >>>> but >>>> don?t blame the engine, be it a Subaru, Corvair, Ford or Chevy. These >>>> are great engines! It is the builder that repeatedly makes the mistakes >>>> and the most onerous statistics would point to the conversion engines >>>> when they should point to the less than responsible builder. >>>> I'd like to think of it as a kind of a Darwinist plan for improving >>>> aircraft builder intellect and capability. >>>> >>>> Think, build and then fly safe, >>>> >>>> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Gig Giacona wrote: >>>> >>>> > Nobody is saying you need to choose one but to attack those that >>>> > choose to use, say a Corvair, as being in some way less safe than you >>>> > is going to piss a lot of people off and cause them to discount >>>> > anything you have to say on any topic. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > Gig - >>>> > > >>>> > > I agree with that. >>>> > > >>>> > > Mechanical devices of all types, can and do fail. The likelihood is >>>> > > increased >>>> > > by using them for purposes other than that which they were >>>> > > designed. >>>> > > >>>> > > Jeff >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------- >>> Andy Shontz >>> CH601XL - Corvair >>> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138740#138740 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Damn, didn't realize they turned that fast. Yeah, it's always the unlikely grease-monkey that's actualy better at whatever someone else's alleged expertise is. Guess it's the peter principle thng at work for the other guy. LOL purplemoon99(at)bellsouth wrote: > Oh by the way I had 2- 350 chevs in a boat that turned 6800 rpm . for 30 > to 40 mins. at atime and ran 5200 to5600 for hrs. no problems at all. It > all goes back to who built the eng, and it wasn't someone who thought they > were a eng. builder ,but a real eng. builder same with the subaru or any > other eng. that you can think of... Anxious N101HD 601XL/RAM > --- -------- Andy Shontz CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138887#138887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
oops, sorry folks. I meant to send my last post privately but failed to inform my computer. Please feel free to ignore my comments. Paul ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 08, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Hi Craig, Thanks for the reply. I am writing off list because I think I already addressed the issues you raised, but apparently I wasn't very clear in my posts. Yes, I will fly behind a Jabiru. I didn't mean to say anything about certification for engines. Indeed, all I said was that I felt purpose built engines were preferable to conversions. I still feel that way. However, even among purpose built engines there are choices to be made. For me, the Jabiru 3300 easily comes out on top. The fact that it isn't certified doesn't bother me a bit. It provides the best proven performance, by far, in the plane I am building. I realize there can be no standard performance for conversions since each one is a bit different from the other ones. Still, if I thought I would get better performance from any conversion I would certainly consider it. The anecdotal information I have gathered over the years I have been building my Zodiac indicate something like a 30 percent speed advantage for the Jabiru over Corvair conversions. There is also an unknown but significant weight advantage for the Jabiru. From the information on the ZAC web site and from just plain common sense, the Rotax seems clearly inferior to the Jabiru. It claims only 100 hp compared to 120 or 130 from the Jabiru and has less than 50 percent of the Jab's displacement (if I remember correctly). It also has water cooling and PSRU which I don't want on my plane. The certified choices all seem significantly heavier and lower in horsepower than the Jabiru. Once again, I don't mean to knock anyone's choice for a conversion. There are reasons why they could easily be the best choice for any particular builder. As with most choices, home built airplanes just don't offer "One size fits all" solutions. As I have clearly said in recent posts, I am building an airplane mostly because I like to build things. I never claimed to prefer factory built airplanes, but I do think the choices made by the factories should rightfully be considered when making judgements over builder's choices. I really don't know where you got the idea that I would only consider brands of engines and airplanes that are certified for my use. I didn't say that. Best regards, Paul XL, Jabiru, nearing completion. At 12:52 PM 10/8/2007, you wrote: > > > If auto conversions are such a great thing to use in airplanes, then why >don't the airplane manufacturers (Cessna, Piper, etc.) use them? > >They do. Cessna and Diamond use the Thielert Diesels. > >Would you fly behind (or in front of) a Jabiru? Because Cessna etc don't use >Jabiru either. > >But if certified aircraft are your standard then why are you building an >experimental? > >-- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Date: Oct 08, 2007
I don't know if they would like being called" grease monkeys ", the one's I know put there engs. together in" Clean Rooms" where they don't even get dust In them. Grease monkey's are the ones that build that E81 found in a junk yard, build it on the kitchen table and can't figure why it doesn't do such a hot job. Hence "auto conv. are no good" The distance between "grease monkey"and "engine builder" is about 10 to 25 years . Joe N101 HD 601 XL/ RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response > > Damn, didn't realize they turned that fast. Yeah, it's always the unlikely > grease-monkey that's actualy better at whatever someone else's alleged > expertise is. Guess it's the peter principle thng at work for the other > guy. LOL > > > purplemoon99(at)bellsouth wrote: >> Oh by the way I had 2- 350 chevs in a boat that turned 6800 rpm . for 30 >> to 40 mins. at atime and ran 5200 to5600 for hrs. no problems at all. It >> all goes back to who built the eng, and it wasn't someone who thought >> they >> were a eng. builder ,but a real eng. builder same with the subaru or any >> other eng. that you can think of... Anxious N101HD 601XL/RAM >> --- > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138887#138887 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Actually my idea, which apparently is NOT new [Wink] was to get a bit more range cheaply. The safety factor is just a welcomed by-product. Hope it all works out well for you. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138902#138902 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 08, 2007
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
I installed a valve at each wing root to be able to shut off each tank. If you have an imbalance you can burn off the higher tank and shut off the lower one. This does not happen often but the real plus of having the valves is when you park at an uneven slope you can prevent the one tank siphoning into the other and then flowing out of the tank vent. I have found this invaluable. I got this suggestion from Gary in Mexico. Thanks Gary, works great!!!! Bob Spudis N701ZX CH701/912S/138 hrs In a message dated 10/8/2007 6:04:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, arno7452(at)bellsouth.net writes: Thanks for all the good comments. It appears the 701 has a little over 20gal of usable fuel. Installing a "D" tank is more than I want to tackle. It appears to have merit and adds another level of safety. Another suggestion is to install individual fuel cutoffs on the two tanks. Run one dry and then quickly turn the other on. Not sure if intentionally stopping the engine while airborne is a good idea. Regards, Ken Arnold CH701 N701LK 91% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruno M." <bruno(at)shortcutto701.com>
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Date: Oct 09, 2007
Here a video about this method (3 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzToYQ765w&mode=related&search http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa9LVYDeMEo&mode=related&search=Sone x%20sonexbuilding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IonjM5IEoMs bye Bruno ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending leading edge skin Hello group ,yes it can be done the same as the Sonex .This morning I was amazed at how easy it was to form the leading edge skin using the vacuum method .It only took about one hour with the help of my lovely wife . The results are very satisfactory. Wade Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
I got some fairings for a TD (see pic) but i need some for my CZAW trigear. If someone would like to have them for the TD i can send them price is 50 USD also I have cover for the brake calipers for the main gear to fit the CZAW wheel fairings. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138925#138925 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/zodiak2_178.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
From: "alex_01" <zoechling(at)gmx.de>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
and one more Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138926#138926 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/zodiak3_212.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 6061-T6... where's it made?
From: "Jugle" <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
I've just checked my order for 6061-T6 sheet with the supplier I intend to buy from here in Australia and have been told they are just waiting for a new shipment to clear customs before they can complete my order. The other supplier I tried to order from told me some thicknesses had a 12 week wait on shipments. It occurred to me that aluminium is produced here by Alcoa in Victoria... do they not produce aircraft aluminium? So where's it coming from? ...and what standards is it produced to? If I'm gonna bank my life on a spar I've built, I'd feel better if I knew the metal was not produced by slave labour in some third world country. Any thoughts, ideas, opinions? Anyone had experiences with sub-standard sheet? BTW, when I speak to them next, I'll ask! Glenn -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- just started. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138933#138933 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: Ken Lilja <planes_by_ken(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 6061-T6... where's it made?
Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Glenn, > > Actually, as I understand it 6061-T6 isn't really aircraft aluminum. True. It is not the standard aircraft aluminum. It is reasonable strong and has high corrosion resistance compared to 2024. I do wonder why we get so upset about corrosion prevention. Prior to 1986 most light aircraft were not corrosion proofed unless they were set up for seaplane use. I would worry more about intergranular corrosion in the extrusions than corrosion in the sheet metal. Ken Lilja ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
I guess I will jump into the fray. First I just want to say that a lot of my opinion is based on researching possible alternatives for a larger 180-200hp engine, and may not be applicable to the smaller 80-100hp engines. I see a lot of "I think", "should", "could", and "I believe" from people talking about auto conversions. People touting their conversions are long on promises and potential, and short on data. Certified engines do fail, however there are pretty good stats on failure rates, causes of failure, maintenance issues to look out for, and how long they will reliably last. Auto conversions are a crap shoot. If you go for one of the bigger engine builders with some measure of previous installations and success, savings, if any, over a certified engine are pretty small. Engineer your own conversion and you best stay close to the airport because it is likely that no matter how smart you are or mechanically gifted, it is very unusual that someone will get everything right the first time. I respect those of you going this this route for your desire to find a more modern and efficient engine than the traditional certified engines available. However, if you think going this route carries less risk than going with the tried and true, you are deluding yourself. If you think I am wrong, show me some data and I'll jump on the auto conversion bandwagon. As far as buying an old airboat lyco and sticking it in your plane; there is a reason they are cheap. They are built up of out of spec parts, which may be "good enough" for a boat, but are not what I want to hang my life and my families life on. There is a difference between good value and being cheap. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138946#138946 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
One of the PAV competitors is finding this issue with GM. They initially got very good support from GM with the idea of using the LS series V8 but after a "Changing of the Guard" at GM, suddenly GM pulled their support. The PAV manufacturer says he is in discussions with Toyota now. Oh well, GM's loss on this high profile project. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontario > The other answer is liability. I doubt you could get > GM to allow one of their engines to be put into a > certified aircraft. The marginal income they would > make from it just wouldn't be worth it to them. They > can probably pay for the liability for 1,000 car > engines for what the cost of 1 aircraft engine would > cost them. > > It actually surprises me that they haven't sued to > stop us from doing as we are. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: Robert Schoenberger <hrs1(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Vixen file with holder
List . . . there was a post a while back by someone who had obtained a short (1.5") Vixen file with a handle attached. The name of the supplying company indicated in the e-mail was Airparts, but they don't carry this item. Can anyone supply me with info on where one can buy a fairly short Vixen file with handle attached.to the top side? One catalog listed Vixen files that were flexible - what is that all about. I really like this tool, but the 10" file I have is a bit clumsy to use. I don't have access to a grinder. Thanks for any help you can render. Robert Schoenberger 701 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vixen file with holder
I put my 10" vixen file in the vise and snapped it off to the length I needed. I then hot glued it to a piece of wood. It has worked great for 700 hours of building. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair scratchbuilding On 10/9/07, Robert Schoenberger wrote: > > hrs1(at)frontiernet.net> > > List . . . there was a post a while back by someone who had obtained a > short (1.5") Vixen file with a handle attached. The name of the > supplying company indicated in the e-mail was Airparts, but they don't > carry this item. Can anyone supply me with info on where one can buy a > fairly short Vixen file with handle attached.to the top side? One > catalog listed Vixen files that were flexible - what is that all about. > I really like this tool, but the 10" file I have is a bit clumsy to > use. I don't have access to a grinder. Thanks for any help you can > render. Robert Schoenberger 701 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: Maarten Versteeg <maarten.versteeg(at)swri.org>
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Hello Wade, I am approaching the leading edge step in my building so I was very interested in options for the bending process. I watched the video's on 'youtube' and it looked like a great way to get the desired bending in a very controlled process. I have tried both the 'table' and air bending processes on a very small piece of material and the leading edge fit was a little better with the 'table' pressed part. My question is what size of tube did you use to 'air' bend the skin, I did my test with the drawing listed 1 3/8" tube. Regards, Maarten, San Antonio 601xl, plans building wings > From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com> > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending leading edge skin > > Hello group ,yes it can be done the same as the Sonex .This morning I > was amazed at how easy it was to form the leading edge skin using the > vacuum method .It only took about one hour with the help of my lovely > wife . The results are very satisfactory. > > Wade Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
steveadams wrote:Certified engines do fail, however there are pretty good stats on failure rates, causes of failure, maintenance issues to look out for, and how long they will reliably last. Auto conversions are a crap shoot. Can you show me where I can find stats on failure rates for Jabiru 3300, Rotax, Continental O-200? William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: Bending leading edge skin
Date: Oct 09, 2007
Hi Maarten ,I used a galvanized 1" sch 40 pipe .The pipe book lists this size as 1.315" mine measured 1.322 .This being a bit smaller than the required 1.375 worked out well and took care of the spring back . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maarten Versteeg" <maarten.versteeg(at)swri.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending leading edge skin > > > Hello Wade, > > I am approaching the leading edge step in my building so I was > very interested in options for the bending process. > I watched the video's on 'youtube' and it looked like a great > way to get the desired bending in a very controlled process. > I have tried both the 'table' and air bending processes on a > very small piece of material and the leading edge fit was a > little better with the 'table' pressed part. My question is > what size of tube did you use to 'air' bend the skin, I did my > test with the drawing listed 1 3/8" tube. > > Regards, > Maarten, San Antonio > 601xl, plans building wings > >> From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com> >> Subject: Zenith-List: Bending leading edge skin >> >> Hello group ,yes it can be done the same as the Sonex .This morning I was >> amazed at how easy it was to form the leading edge skin using the vacuum >> method .It only took about one hour with the help of my lovely wife . The >> results are very satisfactory. Wade Jones > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Leading Edge
Date: Oct 09, 2007
Don't want to boor you guys ,but I was so pleased with the results I thought I should pass this picture along to the plans builders .This was taken just prior to starting the shop-vac and 3 or 4 mins. later it was complete . Wade Jones HP Photosmart Essential - Smart. Simple. Fast! Unleash the Photo Power of your Printer. Download your copy in less than a minute at: http://www.hp.com/go/pse/email ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
bill_dom(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Can you show me where I can find stats on failure rates for Jabiru 3300, Rotax, Continental O-200? quote] As I said at the beginning of my message, all my research has been on larger engines and I know nothing about Jabiru and Rotax engines. For the continental 0-200, look in the NTSB database at airframes flying behind the engine for the last 50 years and see how often mech failure results in an accident. Then just for fun, look at all of the zodiac accidents in the past 10 years, and see what percentage of the engine failures were flying an auto conversion. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138983#138983 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Thanks, I did what you described but only for engines flying in Zodiac 601 airframes. The majority of Zodiacs accidents where engine failure was the cause happened with Rotax engines. However, this is not valid statistic since Rotax could be the most common engine used in Zodiacs. There where a couple of Lycoming, a couple of Subarus but not Corvairs or Jabirus. But then again, without knowing how many of them have been flying, this is inconclusive. If I get some time one of these days I'll get this as failures as percentage of engine flying in Zodiacs. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida. bill_dom(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Can you show me where I can find stats on failure rates for Jabiru 3300, Rotax, Continental O-200? quote] As I said at the beginning of my message, all my research has been on larger engines and I know nothing about Jabiru and Rotax engines. For the continental 0-200, look in the NTSB database at airframes flying behind the engine for the last 50 years and see how often mech failure results in an accident. Then just for fun, look at all of the zodiac accidents in the past 10 years, and see what percentage of the engine failures were flying an auto conversion. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138983#138983 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I would be surprised that the majority of engine failures would be behind Rotax engines. Do people use 582 two strokes in 601 I would assume so as they have about the same performance as the old 2200 Jabiru. The two strokes are definatly not as reliable as the 912 four stroke . If they are 912 failures are fuel starvation problems classed as an engine failure??? Graeme Cairns ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response Thanks, I did what you described but only for engines flying in Zodiac 601 airframes. The majority of Zodiacs accidents where engine failure was the cause happened with Rotax engines. However, this is not valid statistic since Rotax could be the most common engine used in Zodiacs. There where a couple of Lycoming, a couple of Subarus but not Corvairs or Jabirus. But then again, without knowing how many of them have been flying, this is inconclusive. If I get some time one of these days I'll get this as failures as percentage of engine flying in Zodiacs. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida. steveadams wrote: bill_dom(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Can you show me ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 9/10/2007 4:43 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: XL Landing Gear
From: "tigermiller" <tigermiller1595(at)msn.com>
Date: Oct 09, 2007
Debo, I haven't bent mine yet, but it is cut, radiused and ready to bend. I've done test bends on my 12 ton Taiwan press, it it seems to work fine. Don't know how the full width gear will bend, but according to my calculations, I should be able to bend it with the 12 ton press. I made a special bending fixture with two steel rollers on it about 8 inches apart. I'm using a 6 inch diameter piece of aluminum billet to form the inside radius. When I actually bend it, I'll post something, but it'll be awhile. I don't need the gear for quite awhile, and if bent up, it's a pain to store. -------- Dave Miller Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139031#139031 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 09, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: XL Landing Gear
I would suggest that you build a centering jig so that regardless if the be nd center is per plan or not at least the second bend will be symmetrical. Another jig to determine the bend depth and a third and fourth to do the ax le bends as well. Also remember that if you creep up on the bend amount on the first side, you need to creep up on the second side as well as creeping up on a bend angle and doing it in one shot has the possibility of differe nt results...=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: tigermiller <tigermiller1595@m sn.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 5: 06:40 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: Re: XL Landing Gear=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-Lis t message posted by: "tigermiller" =0A=0ADebo, I haven't bent mine yet, but it is cut, radiused and ready to bend. I've don e test bends on my 12 ton Taiwan press, it it seems to work fine. Don't kn ow how the full width gear will bend, but according to my calculations, I s hould be able to bend it with the 12 ton press. I made a special bending f ixture with two steel rollers on it about 8 inches apart. I'm using a 6 in ch diameter piece of aluminum billet to form the inside radius. When I act ually bend it, I'll post something, but it'll be awhile. I don't need the gear for quite awhile, and if bent up, it's a pain to store.=0A=0A-------- =0ADave Miller=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum ========================0A=0A =0A =0A______________________________________________________________ ______________________=0ANeed a vacation? Get great deals=0Ato amazing plac es on Yahoo! Travel.=0Ahttp://travel.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: XL Landing Gear
Date: Oct 09, 2007
Will the gear be heat treated after you bend it? Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: tigermiller To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL Landing Gear Debo, I haven't bent mine yet, but it is cut, radiused and ready to bend. I've done test bends on my 12 ton Taiwan press, it it seems to work fine. Don't know how the full width gear will bend, but according to my calculations, I should be able to bend it with the 12 ton press. I made a special bending fixture with two steel rollers on it about 8 inches apart. I'm using a 6 inch diameter piece of aluminum billet to form the inside radius. When I actually bend it, I'll post something, but it'll be awhile. I don't need the gear for quite awhile, and if bent up, it's a pain to store. -------- Dave Miller Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139031#139031 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Date: Oct 09, 2007
What is PAV, Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: MacDonald Doug To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. One of the PAV competitors is finding this issue with GM. They initially got very good support from GM with the idea of using the LS series V8 but after a "Changing of the Guard" at GM, suddenly GM pulled their support. The PAV manufacturer says he is in discussions with Toyota now. Oh well, GM's loss on this high profile project. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch builder NW Ontario > The other answer is liability. I doubt you could get > GM to allow one of their engines to be put into a > certified aircraft. The marginal income they would > make from it just wouldn't be worth it to them. They > can probably pay for the liability for 1,000 car > engines for what the cost of 1 aircraft engine would > cost them. > > It actually surprises me that they haven't sued to > stop us from doing as we are. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan(at)entry.co.za>
Subject: Re: Open Hangar day Zenith Factory
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Martyn, You should get hold of Donald Williamson, in Cape Town.. I don't have his number, but his website is: www.produx.co.za He has a Hirth installed in his RANS S10. Cheers Jonathan Starke ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Safety wire twister
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Can anyone recommend one of the cheap wire twisters from Assco. Thanks...Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139136#139136 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com>
Subject: Like to see a 601 HD or XL
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Hi folks, I'm based in coastal North Carolina, Morehead City and interested in buying A Zenith 601. If anyone has one that I could visit to see and sit in, I'd appreciate it. I'm going to be in Atlanta next week from the 17th through the 21st if any one has one I could visit in the Atlanta area feel free to contact me here or off list. Thanks, Woody Sulloway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Like to see a 601 HD or XL
Date: Oct 10, 2007
You could visit AMD in Eastman, Georgia (outside of Macon) and sit in one of their factory-built 601XL's. But it looks like it is about two hours from Atlanta: "Directions from Atlanta to AMD in Eastman GA. Take I-75 South to Macon (one hour). Stay on I-75. Do not take the by-pass at Macon. Take I-16 to highway 23 (10 min.). Exit #6 Take 23 South/East to Eastman (50 min.) " www.newplane.com -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
NASA is running some kind of Personal Aerial Vehicle competition kind of like an X-Prize. The idea is that it will be a first step toward a "Jettson's" world where we have Aerial Vehicles instead of cars. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > What is PAV, Bob U. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MacDonald Doug > To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:28 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion > Discussion. > > > > > One of the PAV competitors is finding this issue > with > GM. They initially got very good support from GM > with > the idea of using the LS series V8 but after a > "Changing of the Guard" at GM, suddenly GM pulled > their support. The PAV manufacturer says he is in > discussions with Toyota now. > > Oh well, GM's loss on this high profile project. > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch builder > NW Ontario > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Sounds like time to buy a heavy duty Kevlar Umbrella .... That plus all the car parts flying around up there ... Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139161#139161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
You mean that there are people out there who actually don't have their own airplanes yet???? Dred ---- MacDonald Doug wrote: > > NASA is running some kind of Personal Aerial Vehicle > competition kind of like an X-Prize. The idea is that > it will be a first step toward a "Jettson's" world > where we have Aerial Vehicles instead of cars. > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response
The 582 is too weak for a 601. The failures in questions are from the 912 family and some could have been caused by fuel starvation. It seems like the Rotax was the most common engine used in earlier Zodiacs so this could be the reason why there are more failures of Rotax in the NTSB accident database. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami, Florida Graeme wrote: I would be surprised that the majority of engine failures would be behind Rotax engines. Do people use 582 two strokes in 601 I would assume so as they have about the same performance as the old 2200 Jabiru. The two strokes are definatly not as reliable as the 912 four stroke . If they are 912 failures are fuel starvation problems classed as an engine failure??? Graeme Cairns ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sorry Guys it is another long winded response Thanks, I did what you described but only for engines flying in Zodiac 601 airframes. The majority of Zodiacs accidents where engine failure was the cause happened with Rotax engines. However, this is not valid statistic since Rotax could be the most common engine used in Zodiacs. There where a couple of Lycoming, a couple of Subarus but not Corvairs or Jabirus. But then again, without knowing how many of them have been flying, this is inconclusive. If I get some time one of these days I'll get this as failures as percentage of engine flying in Zodiacs. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida. steveadams wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" bill_dom(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > Can you show me href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Free Release Date: 9/10/2007 4:43 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ZINC CHROMATE:UPDATE
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
HI GUYS JUST CAME BACK FROM GETTING MY "LAST" CAN OF ZINC CHROMATE FROM THE LOCAL BOAT REPAIR SHOP AND WAS TOLD THAT THE MANUFACTURE (TEMPO) IS NO LONGER MAKING IT. THERE IS ANOTHER COMPANY (MOLLER) (MS) THAT WILL BE PICKING IT UP. ANY WAY MY NEXT PROJECT WON'T USE ZINC CHROMATE. GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139185#139185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Like to see a 601 HD or XL
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
HI WOODY IF YOU ARE EVER CLOSE TO CHESAPEAKE MY 601 IS WHERE YOU CAN SIT IN IT, AND I HAVE A FRIEND JORDAN THAT HAS A ZODIAC FLYING. AT THE AIRPORT. GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139186#139186 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
An example of this is when I went to the local Ski-Doo dealer to by some recoil parts for my 503 Rotax ultrlight engine. He said "These aren't going on an aircraft, are they?" Wink Wink. He explained that Ski-Doo forbade them to sell Ski-Doo parts for ultralight aircraft engines. Makes no sense to me but those are the rules. Doug MacDonald NW Ontario, Canada --- Gig Giacona wrote: > > > Welcome Joe, to the land of the groundless law suit, > otherwise known as the USA. BUT, I never said they > would would be found liable for the use of one of > their engines in a homebuilt. > > There are vendors of parts out there that will not > ship you their auto parts if they have reason to > think you are putting them in an aircraft. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Subject: access panels
Hello, all I want to install access panels on the (CH601-HD) wing tip, forward of the spar. I would like these to be fairly large (diameter of about 25 cm / 10 inches), so I can install and service the strobe later. I would like to use nut plates and flat had screws, so it has a nice appearance. Can someone recommend parts (part number, source) and tools for the job? It seems such a simle thing to make, but I stared at the AS&S catalog last night and couldn't figure which parts / tools to use. I figure dimpling will be necessary, but have no such tools at this time. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: John Davis <johnd@data-tech.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Access
Hi All, I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the panel. So it seems like the options are: A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be fitted, so thats a lot of work. B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? Your thoughts/Ideas ? Thanks in advance, John Davis Burnsville, NC 601XL QB - Jab 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Vixen file with holder
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I got one of Airparts's vixen files back when they were carrying the conversions (shortened to about 2" and with a large washer for a handle epoxied on top), and I like it. Works very well. One other thing to do with it, though, if you're making one, is to hone down the sharp edges of the teeth a little bit, to keep it from trying to bit the sheet metal. A session with some valve grinding compound on a sheet of glass would reduce the biting ability, and polish the (now) sliding surface. Paul Rodriguez ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Winger<mailto:larrywinger(at)gmail.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Vixen file with holder I put my 10" vixen file in the vise and snapped it off to the length I needed. I then hot glued it to a piece of wood. It has worked great for 700 hours of building. Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair scratchbuilding On 10/9/07, Robert Schoenberger > wrote: > List . . . there was a post a while back by someone who had obtained a short (1.5") Vixen file with a handle attached. The name of the supplying company indicated in the e-mail was Airparts, but they don't carry this item. Can anyone supply me with info on where one can buy a fairly short Vixen file with handle attached.to<http://attached.to/> the top side? One catalog listed Vixen files that were flexible - what is that all about. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List avigator?Zenith-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: access panels
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Carlos, The only supplies you will need are MS21075L3 nut plates, MS20426AD3-2 rivets (2 per nut plate) and a screw AN525-10R7 per nut plate. Tools will be a drill and snips to cut the holes needed. You do not need to dimple the rivet heads if you do not want. I have countersunk mine. You can use a hammer and flat punch to set the rivets if you do not have a rivet gun. Here is a picture of the hole in my XL wing tip showing the strobe pack inside. It also makes a good inspection hole. Good Luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139223#139223 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/leftwing_33_204.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
From: "tigermiller" <tigermiller1595(at)msn.com>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I'll get a write up and pics of the jig I'm using and get it on the fileshare thing for this group. Can't get it done right away, so give me a few days. Dave -------- Dave Miller Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139224#139224 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "milreed" <milreed(at)wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Kevin Gordon Poer has a small tank behind the seat on the right side of his 701. He runs a 85 HP Continental for power. When he first flew the craft he did so with gravity feed only from the wing tanks down behind the seat to the floor. During some moderate maneuvers he got an air lock in the line and resultant engine failure. I was just looking at his new setup at the Placerville airport last week. Now he has a mechanical and electric fuel pumps as well as that small aux tank which is supplied by the right wing tank only. No more fuel problemos ! Mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Schloss" <Bluebird(at)Townsqr.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I have seen sheet metal screws used instead of rivets. phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting > on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems > to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the > panel. > > So it seems like the options are: > > A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I > have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be > fitted, so thats a lot of work. > > B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the > top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only > concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access > panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? > > Your thoughts/Ideas ? > > Thanks in advance, > John Davis > Burnsville, NC > 601XL QB - Jab 3300 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Brandon Tucker used to be a regular contributor, but only lingers from time to time as he is now enjoying his plane. He did many posts on bending your own gear. In sum up, he felt it was fairly simple with just a hydraulic pipe bender from Harbor Freight. You can read more at the ch601 websight. I am also sure he would be happy to discuss his process with anyone who emailed him directly (btucke73(at)yahoo.com). Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I'm using J-Nuts and screws all the way around the top skin. http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagetype=ships&visitorinput=wr.giacona%40suddenlink.net&retrieveoutcome=FAILED_TO_IDENTIFY&inputtype=&search=&resultsContext=ORDNAV&resultsQueryStr=loademailform%3Dtrue SkipperClyde wrote: > I have seen sheet metal screws used instead of rivets. > > phil > > > --- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139260#139260 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
In a message dated 10/10/2007 , wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes: <<<>> I did the same thing. Dave N618PZ 601XL/Corvair ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: XL Landing Gear
In case anyone was referring to my comments about bending the Zodiac gear, I am not building anymore due to a family crisis. I have bent heavy plate b efore in the past though and it is not to be feared. Make sure that the edg es of the blank are perfectly smooth (and preferrably radiused), and that t he part is located repeatably and you will be fine. =0A=0AI do not have any photos of previous setups - I apologize.=0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Deb o Cox =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed nesday, October 10, 2007 5:50:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: XL Land ing Gear=0A=0A=0AHey Dave,=0A =0AThat sounds like exactly what I was thinki ng would work. I'm still a long way from bending mine, but would love to se e the pics and read the details of your method when you make it happen. Goo d luck with it!=0A =0ADebo Cox=0AScratch-built XL/Corvair=0ANags Head, NC -======================== ============0A=0A=0A =0A_______________________ _____________________________________________________________=0ALooking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.=0Ah ttp://farechase.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 11, 2007
I think the savanna has a good idea for instrument panel. The hole instrument panel panel is a removable, screwed (probably with rubber insulation for vibration) to a riveted in frame for easy access. Graeme Cairns ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:14 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on > the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems to > be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the > panel. > > So it seems like the options are: > > A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I > have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be > fitted, so thats a lot of work. > > B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the > top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only concern > with this approach would be water leaking under the access panel. Any > ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? > > Your thoughts/Ideas ? > > Thanks in advance, > John Davis > Burnsville, NC > 601XL QB - Jab 3300 > > > -- > 269.14.7/1062 - Release Date: 10/10/2007 5:11 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
HI JOHN WHAT I DID WAS MARK WHERE THE CANOPY TOUCHED THE FORWARD TOP SKIN AND MADE A SET OF ACCESS HOLES ON BOTH SIDES JUST SMALLER SO I COULD PUT ANCHOR NUTS AND SCREWS TO HOLD IT IN PLACE. THEN I MADE A LARGE COVER TO COVER BOTH SIDES. IT'S NOT TOTAL ACCESS, BUT I CAN AT LEAST GET BEHIND THE PANEL GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139283#139283 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH701 Usable Fuel
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
I like the shut off vale idea, makes take off a little less exciting! I knew that I needed a fuel pump as the outlet would have to be almost level with the engine. Why doe it feed off of only one of the wing tanks? I also have learned that the guy with the Hawg-Air site (Hog-Air?) has 14 gallon wing tanks for sale. Now I still like the stock aluminum ones... but they could be larger, say 12 gallons each. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139292#139292 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Ch 601 website? :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139293#139293 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
Date: Oct 10, 2007
www.ch601.org Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, Tail done, wings done, working on c-section -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kmccune Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork) Ch 601 website? :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139293#139293 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Thanks..should have guessed! Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139319#139319 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: access panels
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Carlos, I just capped the wing tips but did not add any access holes. I figure the inspections can be made through the lights on the left wing and drilling out the rivets and re-riveting every so often will save weight. YMMV -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139326#139326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Spars Done! Bolts?
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 10, 2007
Congratulations on reaching that milestone. Here is a picture of my solid riveting machine. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139327#139327 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fp01122006a0001k_151.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 10, 2007
John, One of the BEST decisions I made was to make the fwd top skin removable. I used rivnuts and 6-32 SS screws. Others have used nutplates and J clips?? etc. With the skin removed, you have access not only to the instrument panel, but to the inside fwd firewall, rudder peddles and cables, steering rods, brakes, etc. Also, I have removal of the top skin part of my annual condition inspection to check wiring, and other areas under the instrument panel that would be a real problem to inspect with the skin in place. I also have a removable panel aft of the canopy "line" on the top skin. On it, I have provisions to mount 1 or 2 Garmin GPSs (One for the pilots side and one for my spouse's side) and have also mounted a vertical compass card.. Coming through this panel I have compass lighting wiring and hard wiring for the GPS's through grommeted holes that have a slots leading to the holes from the edge of the panel.. When I remove the top skin, I remove this panel first and can leave the wiring intact by passing it through the slot. You can see my instrument panel at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo79.html (Zenith Photo Library #79) as originally finished, but since I have added some "Stuff" , such as a switch and a blinking light to show "Wig-wag" taxi/landing lights, another switch to use either Garmin GPS to drive my AP, a light to show when I have the aux fuel pump on, a Tru-Track T&B, and ... I really like what you can easily do with your airplane when it is "Experimental". If I had to drill out the top skin rivets to gain access to the instrument panel aft areas, it would not be as much fun and also I believe would result in a real mess to clean up. Tony Graziano XL/Jab3300; N493TG; 304 hrs --------------- Subject: Instrument Panel Access From: John Davis (johnd@data-tech.com) Date: Wed Oct 10 - 10:30 AM Hi All, I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the panel. So it seems like the options are: A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be fitted, so thats a lot of work. B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? Your thoughts/Ideas ? Thanks in advance, John Davis Burnsville, NC 601XL QB - Jab 3300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hirth Engine
From: "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Gee Chris, Please don't tell the hundreds of people (myself included!) that the Subaru EA-81 is too heavy for our successful 701 aircraft ! Also please inform me when next you see a 912 for $10k ! I'll buy it sight unseen and make a handsome profit on the same day resale! Steve from Perth Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139351#139351 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/06_169.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graeme Bell" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au>
Subject: Re: Hirth Engine
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Steve You should try Bert Flood and see if he has any tradins at present. I bought one two years ago out of time 1200 hrs ok for home built for $7000 with oil tank. No prop radiator oil cooler etc. Graeme CNS ----- Original Message ----- From: "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hirth Engine > > Gee Chris, Please don't tell the hundreds of people (myself included!) > that the Subaru EA-81 is too heavy for our successful 701 aircraft ! > Also please inform me when next you see a 912 for $10k ! I'll buy it sight > unseen and make a handsome profit on the same day resale! > Steve from Perth > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139351#139351 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/06_169.jpg > > > -- > 05/10/2007 18:53 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Subject: Re: Like to see a 601 HD or XL
If you want to see in an HD and XL come to Thomaston Airport (OPN) about 50 miles south of Atlanta. If you come on a weekend I'll be happy to take you up in my XL. If you can fly, I'll let you at the controls. My treat. Jim Hoak has a HD at the same airport and I'm sure he would be happy to let you examine it. Let me know off list. Best regards, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 w/DC 120 hrs ************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
From: "tigermiller" <tigermiller1595(at)msn.com>
Date: Oct 11, 2007
I've sent a write up and pictures to the matronics photoshare thingy. I guess you have to wait awhile for it to get to the fileshare/photoshare facility. I've also sent it to Mark up at the ch601.org web site. I'll also attach all of it to this note. If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll e-mail you what I have. Dave -------- Dave Miller Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139409#139409 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bending_fixture_instructions_748.txt http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0384_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0383_107.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0382_120.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0381_131.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/000_0380_108.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Stout" <n282rs(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Wings & Wheels
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Dear Listers If you are in flying or driving distance of San Antonio, there is going to be an event this Saturday, 10/13 to support Angel Flight. The local morning show had a crew come out yesterday to give the event a plug. I've attached links to the video they shot. You might see a familiar Zodiac in the background. The weather looks nice for the weekend, so f you have the time, come out and visit. http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455754@video.woai.com&nav CatId=13 http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455729@video.woai.com&nav CatId=13 If the links don't work, you can go to http://www.woai.com/home.aspx, click on the SA Living tab and find the video for Car and Airshow, and Car and Airshow part 2 Randy Stout San Antonio TX www.geocities.com/n282rs n282rs at satx.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2007
From: carlos <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: New style flap actuator
Hello everyone, My name is Carlos Hernandez and I'm in Arizona. Please excuse me for not owning a Zenith aircraft but I have some questions about the linear flap actuator that are now being used in them. I own and fly a Pazmany PL-1, which is very similar in size and performance to the 601, with manual flaps and we want to convert to electric flaps. Now I've read the archives but not much has been mentioned about the performance of the new style unit compared to the original heavier and more costly actuator. I was told that there are several flying with this unit. The old unit number is D145-00-36-3 and the newer version is DE12-17W41. I have an A&P who is persistent in using the more expensive unit that has "a track record". I'm not looking to debate the A&P, he's a good friend and I do greatly respect his knowledge and opinion. I just don't allows agree with him. So I'm more or less looking for testimonials and/or experiences with the new style actuator. Do you trust it less/same/more than the original? I'm looking into these because they're lighter, less expensive and, if need be, easily replaceable. Thank you for your time ladies and gents! Carlos -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers, LLC 2963 W. Elliot Rd. - Suite 3 Chandler, AZ 85224 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copyingof this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you havereceived this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2007
From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Subject: Wings & Wheels
Randy, Your Zodiac (flyable experimental thing) looks great in the background! Any one flying in had better check out the massive TFR around Waco and stay clear! Jay in Dallas "Randy Stout" wrote: > >Dear Listers > >If you are in flying or driving distance of San Antonio, there is going to >be an event this Saturday, 10/13 to support Angel Flight. The local morning >show had a crew come out yesterday to give the event a plug. I've attached >links to the video they shot. You might see a familiar Zodiac in the >background. The weather looks nice for the weekend, so f you have the time, >come out and visit. > >http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455754@video.woai.com&nav >CatId=13 > >http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=455729@video.woai.com&nav >CatId=13 > >If the links don't work, you can go to http://www.woai.com/home.aspx, click >on the SA Living tab and find the video for Car and Airshow, and Car and >Airshow part 2 > >Randy Stout >San Antonio TX >www.geocities.com/n282rs >n282rs at satx.rr.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: 701 with Jab 3300
Date: Oct 11, 2007
List: I am at the stage where I need to make a decision on the engine to use in my 701. I had the Jab 3300 (A very early one) in my 601 and did have cooling problems below 95 mph. That is the upper limit of the envelope for the 701 so I am wondering if anyone has a Jab 3300 (current version) in a flying 701 and, if so, are you having any cooling problems? Stan N701VG (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not want to for whatever reason and then sell it to the next person who walks through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. An experimental aircraft is just that. Also, stamping not for aircraft use means absolutely nothing. It is similar to the people that want to see your receipt when you walk out the door at some Home Depots. I say "no thanks" because it is mine I paid for it and it is none of your damn business. Including looking at the receipt which is also my property. The burden of responsibility passed when the store took my money in exchange for the goods and the receipt. If you buy a toaster and make toast while soaking in the tub, your electrocution ain't Proctor/ Silex's fault... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2007
From: Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Orchards Supply has aircraft cable for sale by the foot. They also have a sign that says "not for aircraft use". Dan Wilde ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Date: Oct 11, 2007
You are 100% correct...... ----- Original Message ----- From: Joemotis(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion. I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not want to for whatever reason and then sell it to the next person who walks through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. An experimental aircraft is just that. Also, stamping not for aircraft use means absolutely nothing. It is similar to the people that want to see your receipt when you walk out the door at some Home Depots. I say "no thanks" because it is mine I paid for it and it is none of your damn business. Including looking at the receipt which is also my property. The burden of responsibility passed when the store took my money in exchange for the goods and the receipt. If you buy a toaster and make toast while soaking in the tub, your electrocution ain't Proctor/ Silex's fault... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's new ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Bolding" <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Wings & Wheels now restricted area
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Interesting timing, last weekend in our dove hunting camp was a Secret Service dude stationed at the Crawford Ranch. Over dinner I told him the story of a buddy that got a visit from an F-16 even thou his GPS showed him 2-3 miles OUTSIDE the restricted area. He told me that the ACTUAL ring follows the President around the property so if Dubya is out at the street checking the mailbox or gabbing with the neighbors the ring is different than if he's at the Back Forty checking the fenceline . He ALSO told me that if you get within 40 miles a decision is being made whether to jump you or not, depending on several things, NONE of which he was willing to share. What I gathered thou was DON'T run at the Circle and plan to make a 90* turn at the last minute, might get a visit , if you skirt it, stay 5 miles outside and all stays calm. LOW&SLO John Bolding ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaybannist(at)cs.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wings & Wheels Randy, Your Zodiac (flyable experimental thing) looks great in the background! Any one flying in had better check out the massive TFR around Waco and stay clear! Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 welded kit parts
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Do the parts that need to be welded in the kit arrive welded, or just tube stock? I'm thinking of buying the welded parts separately instead of fabricating them. Also the fuel tanks, other kit MFGs, I believe, offer tanks kits that are riveted together with sealant in the seams.? True? Comments on longevity of said sealants? I can weld pretty well, but no one has ever inspected/tested my welds (since high school, a looong time ago) and I don't want to worry about it. Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139490#139490 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending the main gear (and the nose gear fork)
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Thanks, you just saved me $$$ :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139491#139491 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RClaggf4u(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Subject: Re: 701 welded kit parts
Kevin, The parts come welded from Zenith. Just clean, paint and install. The Tanks are welded aluminum, they have a couple of welders that do a remarkable job. I watched them both at the open house and to say I was impressed is an understatemet. Truly outstanding work. Wayne 701 plans building. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 701 welded kit parts
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: Oct 11, 2007
Thanks guys, one more issue checked off :D :D :D Kevin -------- Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139504#139504 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: New style flap actuator
Date: Oct 11, 2007
The run-away actuator was with the Surplus Center actuator and actually cause by the electronic controller available from the same source. With a hard toggle switch there is no power available to the actuator (of any make or model) and it can't run away. Others include a circuit breaker in the flap motor circuit to add a back-up disconnect. -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Bauman <squidtpd(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: 601xl plans
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Does anyone have a set of zodiac 601xl plans they would like to sell? Thx, Mike _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!- Play Star Shuffle:- the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc t ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hirth Engine
From: "secatur" <appraise1(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Thanks...By the time you convert to $Aud,pay freight, and GST..you're looking at $16,000 ++++ Cheapest old Bert had when I checked 6 months ago was $14 2nd hand All reinforcing my point! I'm happy with my 0 hours" EA-81T" FI, Cam, Mod Intake manifold, RFI Redrive, Warp 72" 3 blade (New),All up 84 kg Total cost to date $8200 I did look at Hirth, they really look nice and I know of one operational one which has not given much trouble to date...but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139523#139523 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Tiethoff" <j.e.tiethoff(at)hccnet.nl>
Subject: 701 with Jab 3300
Date: Oct 12, 2007
What's wrong with the proven 912 in a 701 ? (Exept for low weight, good fuel economy, well documented, reliable). -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Stanley Challgren Verzonden: vrijdag 12 oktober 2007 0:47 Aan: Zenith List Onderwerp: Zenith-List: 701 with Jab 3300 List: I am at the stage where I need to make a decision on the engine to use in my 701. I had the Jab 3300 (A very early one) in my 601 and did have cooling problems below 95 mph. That is the upper limit of the envelope for the 701 so I am wondering if anyone has a Jab 3300 (current version) in a flying 701 and, if so, are you having any cooling problems? Stan N701VG (Reserved) -- Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter. 1632 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. Download de gratis SPAMfighter via deze link: http://www.spamfighter.com/lnl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
Yes but bt be very careful with that one. There is "Aircraft Cable" and then there is cable that meets a Mil spec and is designed for use in an aircraft. BIG difference in quality. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- Dan wrote: > > > Orchards Supply has aircraft cable for sale by the > foot. They also have > a sign that says "not for aircraft use". > > Dan Wilde Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "Mike Hoffman" <mhoffman9(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Several years ago I tried to buy wheel bearings for my PA 28R200 from Detroit Ball Bearing Company and was refused. They told me they would not sell to the aviation community because of liability issues. I came back the next day and when they asked what they were for, I told them they were for a home made go cart and they sold them to me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139534#139534 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 601xl plans
Date: Oct 12, 2007
I have a set ,Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauman To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 4:00 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl plans Does anyone have a set of zodiac 601xl plans they would like to sell? Thx, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. Play Now! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 701 welded kit parts
Date: Oct 12, 2007
The tanks are also pressure tested for leaks in the weld before releasing to the builders. They are as good as one can get. Ken CH701 91% ----- Original Message ----- From: RClaggf4u(at)aol.com To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 welded kit parts Kevin, The parts come welded from Zenith. Just clean, paint and install. The Tanks are welded aluminum, they have a couple of welders that do a remarkable job. I watched them both at the open house and to say I was impressed is an understatemet. Truly outstanding work. Wayne 701 plans building. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --> http://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LRM" <lrm(at)skyhawg.com>
Subject: Re: 701 with Jab 3300
Date: Oct 12, 2007
That's easy, Price!!!!!!! It and the Jab are greatly over priced. Weight's good on both. I do agree with well documented. The 912 has more ADs than any other engine out there. That's documentation. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Tiethoff" <j.e.tiethoff(at)hccnet.nl> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 4:35 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 with Jab 3300 > > > > What's wrong with the proven 912 in a 701 ? (Exept for low weight, good > fuel > economy, well documented, reliable). > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Stanley Challgren > Verzonden: vrijdag 12 oktober 2007 0:47 > Aan: Zenith List > Onderwerp: Zenith-List: 701 with Jab 3300 > > > List: > > I am at the stage where I need to make a decision on the engine to > use in my 701. I had the Jab 3300 (A very early one) in my 601 and > did have cooling problems below 95 mph. That is the upper limit of > the envelope for the 701 so I am wondering if anyone has a Jab 3300 > (current version) in a flying 701 and, if so, are you having any > cooling problems? > > Stan > N701VG (Reserved) > > > -- > Mijn Postvak In wordt beschermd door SPAMfighter. > 1632 spam-mails zijn er tot op heden geblokkeerd. > Download de gratis SPAMfighter via deze link: > http://www.spamfighter.com/lnl > > > -- > 10/11/2007 3:09 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
See there's the problem. You are under the mistaken belief that discrimination is against the law in the USA. It isn't. Only certain types of discrimination are illegal and those are based on age, sex, race, religion, disability and national origin. While many of our wives and friends might think our aircraft building activities rise to the level of religion and certainly rise to the level of disability the law, sadly does not. Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote: > I feel that if anyone were not to sell you anything because "they" do not want to for whatever reason and then sell it to the next person who walks through the door is discrimination by the dictionary definition. Where would the line be? No sale of anything that could be used on your aircraft would start at about "alternator and go to at least z clips. > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139565#139565 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion.
In a message dated 10/12/2007 10:20:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net writes: Only certain types of discrimination are illegal and those are based on age, sex, race, religion, disability and national origin. This should be "USA laws REQUIRE discrimination based on age, sex, race, religion, disability and national origin" Jerry of GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Motor mount
Date: Oct 12, 2007
I'm building my motor mount for the corvair engine. I have Zenith drawing #6-YE-1 which seems a little confusing as to which way the engine should be offset. Their note says "offset to the left for lycoming engine" and the drawing shows the thrust line offset to the RIGHT. I'm planning on building a square motor mount,,,,except I will put a 1" spacer between the left hand 2 support arms when located in the fixture. Then when mounted on the airplane WITHOUT the spacers the motor mount will swing ,,,or offset to the Left. Can anyone confirm this is the corect way to offset the motor mount and also does the corvair rotate counter clockwise when setting in the pilots seat,,,,opposite of the Lycomings. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2007
From: Terry Fogelson <t_fogelson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: ch750
Looks as if there is at least one ch750. Dubbert Roger Model: STOL CH 750 Dubbert Roger STOL CH 750 Year built: 2007 Serial Number (C/N): 7-6640 Mode S Code: 52416140 Aircraft Type: Fixed wing single engine Amateur-Built: Yes Number of Seats: 2 Number of Engines: 1 Engine Type: Reciprocating Engine Manufacturer and Model: Cont Motor O-200A Owner (FAA) Registration Type: Individual Address: Mexico, MO 65265 United States Region: Central Top Status (FAA) Certification Class: Experimental Certification Issued: 2007-03-06 Air Worthiness Test: 2007-08-24 Last Action Taken: 2007-03-06 Current Status: Valid Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2007
From: Bob Duns <rduns(at)sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: Motor mount
Blue Skies Bob U When I built a motor mount for 601HD (Corvair), WW advised that the tray is angled down 1 degree at the nose. The tail of the motor is offset 1/2 degree to the right. I presume these angles were based on his 601XL which is similar tot he 061HD firewall. I have not flown yet so can't confirm whether these numbers work for me but WW has many hours on his 601XL with similar motor mount. I also have other numbers for location of motor mount tray from in front of the firewall if you need them. Bob D 601HD Corvair Melfort, SK ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: Zenith List Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Motor mount I'm building my motor mount for the corvair engine. I have Zenith drawing #6-YE-1 which seems a little confusing as to which way the engine should be offset. Their note says "offset to the left for lycoming engine" and the drawing shows the thrust line offset to the RIGHT. I'm planning on building a square motor mount,,,,except I will put a 1" spacer between the left hand 2 support arms when located in the fixture. Then when mounted on the airplane WITHOUT the spacers the motor mount will swing ,,,or offset to the Left. Can anyone confirm this is the corect way to offset the motor mount and also does the corvair rotate counter clockwise when setting in the pilots seat,,,,opposite of the Lycomings. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Motor mount
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Bob & Blue Skies, I believe there will be a difference in offsetting to right or left depending on direction of prop rotation. Your info makes sense to me because the Corvair will normally rotate the prop counterclockwise (as viewed from the cockpit). My experience years ago with Cessnas, Pipers, and even T-Craft was needing some right rudder under full takeoff power. They were clockwise rotation on the props. It may be worth noting that the Corvair can be set up to run clockwise if preferred or needed. I'm still a ways off from the motor mount stage since am just starting fuselage now, but interested for future reference as am sure others are. I'll probably get my mount from WW unless my welding skills are much more practiced and improved by then. Thanks. Al 601XL Corvair Gore, VA On Oct 12, 2007, at 1:47 PM, Bob Duns wrote: > Blue Skies > Bob U > > When I built a motor mount for 601HD (Corvair), WW advised that the > tray is angled down 1 degree at the nose. The tail of the motor is > offset 1/2 degree to the right. I presume these angles were based on > his 601XL which is similar tot he 061HD firewall. I have not flown > yet so can't confirm whether these numbers work for me but WW has > many hours on his 601XL with similar motor mount. I also have other > numbers for location of motor mount tray from in front of the firewall > if you need them. > > Bob D > 601HD Corvair > Melfort, SK > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Bob Unternaehrer >> To: Zenith List >> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:44 AM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Motor mount >> >> I'm building my motor mount for the corvair engine. I have Zenith >> drawing #6-YE-1 which seems a little confusing as to which way the >> engine should be offset. Their note says "offset to the left for >> lycoming engine" and the drawing shows the thrust line offset to the >> RIGHT. I'm planning on building a square motor mount,,,,except I >> will put a 1" spacer between the left hand 2 support arms when >> located in the fixture. Then when mounted on the airplane WITHOUT >> the spacers the motor mount will swing ,,,or offset to the Left. >> Can anyone confirm this is the corect way to offset the motor mount >> and also does the corvair rotate counter clockwise when setting in >> the pilots seat,,,,opposite of the Lycomings. >> >> Blue Skies >> Bob Unternaehrer >> shilocom(at)mcmsys.com >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ch750
From: "LouB" <LBuckley122(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Roger Dubbert is Zenith's Customer Service Representative and demonstration pilot. The CH750 in the FAA database is probably Zenith's first CH750. I hope progress is going well and with the price of Rotax, the continental 100A or 100D is welcome. Looking forward to reports from Zenith and independent reviewers. Hope that the CH750 will be matched hole construction. Cheers, Lou Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139629#139629 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
I am looking for a cfi to train me in a 601xl and help me get my spl license. I am willing to travel anywhere but remember it will start getting cold soon. mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139648#139648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
From: xavierzr(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Date: Oct 12, 2007
We can help you. www.clubaerodeportivo.com pe my personal mail xvrzng@yahoo -----Original Message----- From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:29:18 To:zenith-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Flight instructor and examiner wanted I am looking for a cfi to train me in a 601xl and help me get my spl license. I am willing to travel anywhere but remember it will start getting cold soon. mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139648#139648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CH 701 flying
From: "SockPuppet61" <sockpuppet61(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Hi all, I've been looking into the 701 for a long time and am curious about pilot reports for it. Seen only one pretty long report on the Web. I'm particularly interested to know what its best glide speed is supposed to be, the glide ratio (other than "it's like a piano"), and if somebody has practices engine idle landings with it. How does it handle in stalls with various configurations? Also I've seen a couple of pictures on the web of 701s with a VW in it. If you've got one I'd like to know what kind of performance you get out of it. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139651#139651 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Check the EAA web site, they have instructors listed by state and if they are willing to instruct in an experimental aircraft. Clyde Barcus 601 XL, Continental Powered Wings, Tail & Engine Complete Working on Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flight instructor and examiner wanted > > I am looking for a cfi to train me in a 601xl and help me get my spl > license. > I am willing to travel anywhere but remember it will start getting cold > soon. > > mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139648#139648 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH 701 flying
From: "river1" <pedro(at)mycingular.blackberry.net>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Google , Niol lockinton 701 , also look back into the list , Mark Townsend wrote about it . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139657#139657 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
mosquito-56, where are you located? There are places in Fla. for sure. Jerry of Ga ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Motor mount
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Talked with ZAC and think I have it straight. The prop is on centerline as shown on the drawings and the rear of the engine mount is shifted as shown on the drawings. The note was confusing me but I think I understand now. I may need some dimensions from some of you who have built their own motor mount or from the WW mount. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: Zenith List Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Motor mount I'm building my motor mount for the corvair engine. I have Zenith drawing #6-YE-1 which seems a little confusing as to which way the engine should be offset. Their note says "offset to the left for lycoming engine" and the drawing shows the thrust line offset to the RIGHT. I'm planning on building a square motor mount,,,,except I will put a 1" spacer between the left hand 2 support arms when located in the fixture. Then when mounted on the airplane WITHOUT the spacers the motor mount will swing ,,,or offset to the Left. Can anyone confirm this is the corect way to offset the motor mount and also does the corvair rotate counter clockwise when setting in the pilots seat,,,,opposite of the Lycomings. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
How are you guys splicing thin wires together...? For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires. I'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go. Anybody doing anything different/better/easier...? Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139669#139669 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Same here. I have been using d-sub computer style connectors from Radio Shack. Get your magnifying glass out! Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139680#139680 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "GLJSOJ1" <gljno10(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
HI PATRICK I ALSO USED CRIMPS TO SPLICE THOSE TINY WIRES. I USED THE RED WHICH I BELIEVE IS 22-18G WIRE, WHILE I THINK THESE WIRES ARE 24 G. I HAVE HAD SOME OF THESE RED TERMINALS ON THESE WIRES COME OFF, SO I AM RETHINKING THEM. ALSO RADIO SHACK SELLS A SMALLER YELLOW BUTT JOINT CONNECTOR FOR WIRES 26 TO 22 G. YOU CAN'T DISCONNECT THESE ONCE THEY ARE CRIMPED THOUGH. GLENN -------- 601XL BUILDER ALMOST DONE CHESAPEAKE VA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139682#139682 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2007
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote: >Same here. I have been using d-sub computer style connectors from >Radio Shack. Get your magnifying glass out! I wonder how well miniature connectors like the D-sub work for 16 AWG wires. They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller wires. I have been using automotive spade connectors crimped onto the Tefzel aircraft wires. I like the ones that come with full plastic covers and tend to tie them together with lacing tape. Paul XL Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2007
From: craig(at)craigandjean.com
Subject: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
Dragonfly Aviation in Santa Rosa, CA (in the wine country north of San Francisco) offers Sport Pilot instruction in a 601XL. Just down the road from Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale. http://www.dragonflyaviation.com/ There is also the League of Extraordinary Aviators in Arizona allthough at one point their 601XL was down for a while. http://www.leaviators.com/ For something 601XL-like consider St Charles Flying Service and training in an Evector SportsStar. This is where I soloed. http://www.stcharlesflyingsvs.com/lightsport.php -- Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
Thanx much for the info. I will start calling Monday. Heading for EAA meeting this weekend. Eaa site does not list by aircraft and I really need the zodiac as I am currently building one. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139693#139693 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
I am just getting to the interesting parts of the plane, Instrument Panel and fwf. I will shoot out a couple of the questions I wrote down from today. These are in no logical, if I were logical I would be building a bar, not an airplane, order. 1. Ags ingtiions system. Do the locks work on the 601xl? What is a good Ignition switch? Does the ignition switch come with the jab3300 fwf? 2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll understand this one. 3. Dynon ems120, do you need a seperate fuel sender or is the resistance all that is needed. What do you think of Dynon in general? 4. Any thoughts on Grand Rapids efis? Thanx much Don N601NV reserved Starting fuse Laredo, Tx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139694#139694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 12, 2007
I am curious about using Radio Shack in an airplane. While I am not suggesting the quality is bad, I have to question the quality of Radio Shack in general? I highly recommend this page, I go alot of nice info and sites for electrical work. http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical1.html, page 5 had the connectors your talking about. Don 601xl fuse Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139695#139695 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: IFLYSMODEL(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
Hey Don: I took my first ride in a 601 XL at Lantana Florida. That is what made up my mind to buy my 601 HD. No problems with the cold weather there. Lynn Nelsen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. 427JV took off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to burn in the breaks! Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average 1300 to 1300. after about 2 hours they were down to 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon landing, and breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was oil comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail light, and prop needs to be pitched less. Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
Congratulations on a successful 1st flight,Juan! Keep us posted on your flight test results. Terry >after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe dynon system on Rivet the >wonder plane ,so named by ,my wife , I started her up for the first time >and planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi tests, she took off on >me at 40 knots!. 427JV took off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to >burn in the breaks! >Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average 1300 to 1300. after >about 2 hours they were down to 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon >landing, and breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was oil >comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail light, and prop needs to be >pitched less. > >Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
Guys, all this talk of crimp connectors is making me a little nervious. The best way to joun two wires together is to solder them. Next step is to rinse the flux off with water or rubbing alcohol. Then to finish them up, apply heat shrink (preferably the internally glued type). This is what the professional avionics shops are supposed to do. Yes, it might be overkill in some instances but it will always work. No guessing if the crimp is going to fail. Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > > At 08:49 PM 10/12/2007, you wrote: > >Same here. I have been using d-sub computer style > connectors from > >Radio Shack. Get your magnifying glass out! > > I wonder how well miniature connectors like the > D-sub work for 16 AWG > wires. They are usually used for 22 AWG and smaller > wires. > > I have been using automotive spade connectors > crimped onto the Tefzel > aircraft wires. I like the ones that come with full > plastic covers > and tend to tie them together with lacing tape. > > Paul > XL Fuselage Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
Date: Oct 13, 2007
<> for the example you give, "non critical" i like the molex connectors. I'd probably use molex connectors or Terminal boards for any wiring you "might" have to remove. Other than those I like the "crimp style butt connectors" using the proper crimp tool (wide hammer and anvil type). This discussion went on and on ,,,on another list I believe, or maybe it was this list several months ago and it will NEVER be resolved. Those who feel soldering is still necessary are die hards and will always solder. 30 or 40 years ago when large crimp connectors first became available and popular in the large wire ( 3 and 4 ought) on High Voltage connectors, I was involved in testing the crimps. We would test the connectors for resistance drop at high currents, then cut and polish the crimps, looking for voids. The "properly crimped" joint was always superior to other methods, such as lugs bolted together, split bolts etc. A proper crimp of stranded wire, when cut and polished looks like one "Solid wire", that is the strands are not visible and have become one wire. Solderings major detract is the damaging of the insullation AND "cold solder joints and some corrosion possibilities. I suspect, this debate will get long and won't be resolved here either. In summary, Get yourself a GOOD Klein or other commercial brand wide anvil crimper made for insulated and non-insulated lugs and use it. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: PatrickW To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Splicing Tiny Wires...? How are you guys splicing thin wires together...? For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires. I'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go. Anybody doing anything different/better/easier...? Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139669#139669 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Tie-Down Attachment
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Here's what should be a quick question. The plans for the XL show the wing tie-down rings to be mounted in what looks like a notch cut into the outboard spar tip lower flange. This seems to be supported by the dimensions listed in the drawings. Is that really how people are mounting these? I can't image cutting that notch in the spar tip flange when it really doesn't look necessary. Wouldn't that impact the integrity of the spar tip? Just asking what others have done here. A picture would really help. Doug Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139726#139726 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: "Larry Winger" <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Tie-Down Attachment
Don't notch the flange. If you look at page 7 of the photo guide (Section 6-W-8B, Revision 3.3), you'll see that they show the aft edge of the tiedown only touching the flange, not intersecting it. In the plans themselves, they only specify the distance for the narrow end of the ring to be 30mm. You don't maintain the 30mm for the rest of the rivet line. That is covered in a column note on the photo guide that says, "Note: the rivet line is not parallel to the front edge of the rib." Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Scratchbuilding wings Tustin, CA On 10/13/07, dfmoeller wrote: > > > Here's what should be a quick question. > > The plans for the XL show the wing tie-down rings to be mounted in what > looks like a notch cut into the outboard spar tip lower flange. This seems > to be supported by the dimensions listed in the drawings. > > Is that really how people are mounting these? I can't image cutting that > notch in the spar tip flange when it really doesn't look > necessary. Wouldn't that impact the integrity of the spar tip? > > Just asking what others have done here. A picture would really help. > > > Doug > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139726#139726 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Motor mount
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Bob, What did you use to cowl your corvair. Did you use the WW nose bowl? Anyhow could you give me the dimension from the Prop centerline, horizontally to the top firewall mount. Also the distance vertically from the top firewall mount to the prop centerline and to the Bed mount where it bolts to the motor. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Duns To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Motor mount Blue Skies Bob U When I built a motor mount for 601HD (Corvair), WW advised that the tray is angled down 1 degree at the nose. The tail of the motor is offset 1/2 degree to the right. I presume these angles were based on his 601XL which is similar tot he 061HD firewall. I have not flown yet so can't confirm whether these numbers work for me but WW has many hours on his 601XL with similar motor mount. I also have other numbers for location of motor mount tray from in front of the firewall if you need them. Bob D 601HD Corvair Melfort, SK ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: Zenith List Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Motor mount I'm building my motor mount for the corvair engine. I have Zenith drawing #6-YE-1 which seems a little confusing as to which way the engine should be offset. Their note says "offset to the left for lycoming engine" and the drawing shows the thrust line offset to the RIGHT. I'm planning on building a square motor mount,,,,except I will put a 1" spacer between the left hand 2 support arms when located in the fixture. Then when mounted on the airplane WITHOUT the spacers the motor mount will swing ,,,or offset to the Left. Can anyone confirm this is the corect way to offset the motor mount and also does the corvair rotate counter clockwise when setting in the pilots seat,,,,opposite of the Lycomings. Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million
Date: Oct 13, 2007
<<2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll understand this one.>> Oil pressure switch. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: mosquito56 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:32 AM Subject: Zenith-List: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million I am just getting to the interesting parts of the plane, Instrument Panel and fwf. I will shoot out a couple of the questions I wrote down from today. These are in no logical, if I were logical I would be building a bar, not an airplane, order. 1. Ags ingtiions system. Do the locks work on the 601xl? What is a good Ignition switch? Does the ignition switch come with the jab3300 fwf? 2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll understand this one. 3. Dynon ems120, do you need a seperate fuel sender or is the resistance all that is needed. What do you think of Dynon in general? 4. Any thoughts on Grand Rapids efis? Thanx much Don N601NV reserved Starting fuse Laredo, Tx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139694#139694 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Tie-Down Attachment
From: "dfmoeller" <dfmoeller(at)austin.rr.com>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Thanks, Larry. That was the part I was missing. The rivet line isn't parallel to the spar! Doug [quote="lwinger"]Don't notch the flange. If you look at page 7 of the photo guide (Section 6-W-8B, Revision 3.3), you'll see that they show the aft edge of the tiedown only touching the flange, not intersecting it. In the plans themselves, they only specify the distance for the narrow end of the ring to be 30mm. You don't maintain the 30mm for the rest of the rivet line. That is covered in a column note on the photo guide that says, "Note: the rivet line is not parallel to the front edge of the rib." Larry Winger 601XL/Corvair Scratchbuilding wings Tustin, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139742#139742 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
The other reason that crimping has largely replaced soldered connections is that the major cause of unreliability on soldered joints is the eventual f atigue failures in the wiring due to the transition from a flexible bunch o f strands into a fused rod at the boudary of the solder joint.=0A =0ADave D owney=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Mes sage ----=0AFrom: Bob Unternaehrer <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>=0ATo: zenith-list@ matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:07:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zenith-List: Splicing Tiny Wires...?=0A=0A=0A<>=0A=0A =0Afor the example you give, "non critical" i like the mo lex connectors. I'd probably use molex connectors or Terminal boards for a ny wiring you "might" have to remove. Other than those I like the "crimp s tyle butt connectors" using the proper crimp tool (wide hammer and anvil ty pe). This discussion went on and on ,,,on another list I believe, or maybe it was this list several months ago and it will NEVER be resolved. Those who feel soldering is still necessary are die hards and will always solder. 30 or 40 years ago when large crimp connectors first became available and popular in the large wire ( 3 and 4 ought) on High Voltage connectors, I w as involved in testing the crimps. We would test the connectors for resist ance drop at high currents, then cut and polish the crimps, looking for voi ds. The "properly crimped" joint was always superior to other methods, suc h as lugs bolted together, split bolts etc. A proper crimp of stranded wire , when cut and polished looks like one "Solid wire", that is the strands are not visible and have become one wire. Solderings major detract is the damaging of the insullation AND "cold solder joints and some corrosion possibilities. I s uspect, this debate will get long and won't be resolved here either. In s ummary, Get yourself a GOOD Klein or other commercial brand wide anvil crim per made for insulated and non-insulated lugs and use it. =0A =0ABob U. =0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: PatrickW =0ATo: zenith-list@matron ics.com =0ASent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:10 PM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: S " =0A=0AHow are you guys splicing thin wires together...? =0A=0AFor example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires.=0A=0AI'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go.=0A=0AAnybody doing anything different/better/easier...?=0A=0AThanks, =0A=0APatrick=0AXL/Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139669#139669=0A=0A=0Ahttp:// www.matron===================== ===0Absp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo ========================0A=0A =0A =0A______________________________________________________________ ______________________=0ABe a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship an ers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: David Downey <planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million
I always thought that the Hobbs was powered through an oil pressure switch. =0A =0ADave Downey=0AHarleysville (SE) PA=0A100 HP Corvair=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bob Unternaehrer <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>=0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:29:05 AM=0A Subject: Re: Zenith-List: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million=0A=0A=0A<<2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll underst and this one.>>=0A =0AOil pressure switch. =0A =0ABob U. =0A =0A----- Orig inal Message ----- =0AFrom: mosquito56 =0ATo: zenith-list(at)matronics.com =0A Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:32 AM=0ASubject: Zenith-List: General I nstrument and engine questions. first of a million=0A=0A=0A--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mosquito56" =0A=0AI am just ge tting to the interesting parts of the plane, Instrument Panel and fwf. I wi ll shoot out a couple of the questions I wrote down from today. These are i n no logical, if I were logical I would be building a bar, not an airplane, order.=0A=0A1. Ags ingtiions system. Do the locks work on the 601xl? What is a good Ignition switch? Does the ignition switch come with the jab3300 f wf?=0A2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll understand this one. =0A3. Dynon ems120, do you need a seperate fuel sender or is the resistance all that is needed. What do you think of Dynon in general?=0A4. Any though ts on Grand Rapids efis?=0AThanx much=0A=0ADon=0AN601NV reserved=0AStarting fuse=0ALaredo, Tx=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://f orums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139694#139694=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matr on========================0Ab sp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro ======================0A=0A=0A =0A____________________________________________________________________ ________________=0AMoody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their li ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight instructor and examiner wanted
From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
These folks have one. Silver Sky Aviation 4151 W. Lindbergh Way Chandler, AZ 866-498-8276 peggy(at)silverskyaviation.com www.silverskyaviation.com -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139753#139753 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Could anybody give me a dimension from either the prop hub flange or either motor mount hole to the TOP Firewall mount. I have the motor here and can get the following dimensions but it anyone already has them the "height of the Crankshaft centerline" above the bed mount vertically and the distance from the prop hub horizoontallty to the front motor mount hole in the bed mount. I'll want to be sure the fiberglass nosebowl and cowling kit will fit. Is it a good assumption that the cowling kit will have a few inches of metal to trim so that there is a little wiggle room for that fit, but what seems more important is that the motor be in the correct "front to back" position for the correct CG on the XL Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
I'm an old time radio guy and my preference is for soldering when there is no need to take the connection apart again. I also use heat shrink and follow by either wrapping the whole bundle with tape or a bigger piece of heat shrink. When I was our school's tech guy I used crimpers for everything.... that said, those connections were not be exposed to weather or vibrated by a bouncing airframe. Tim -------- ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A Working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139758#139758 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
Date: Oct 13, 2007
<<> Absolutely,,,,I'd forgot about that. bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Downey To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splicing Tiny Wires...? The other reason that crimping has largely replaced soldered connections is that the major cause of unreliability on soldered joints is the eventual fatigue failures in the wiring due to the transition from a flexible bunch of strands into a fused rod at the boudary of the solder joint. Dave Downey Harleysville (SE) PA 100 HP Corvair ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Unternaehrer <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:07:04 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Splicing Tiny Wires...? <> for the example you give, "non critical" i like the molex connectors. I'd probably use molex connectors or Terminal boards for any wiring you "might" have to remove. Other than those I like the "crimp style butt connectors" using the proper crimp tool (wide hammer and anvil type). This discussion went on and on ,,,on another list I believe, or maybe it was this list several months ago and it will NEVER be resolved. Those who feel soldering is still necessary are die hards and will always solder. 30 or 40 years ago when large crimp connectors first became available and popular in the large wire ( 3 and 4 ought) on High Voltage connectors, I was involved in testing the crimps. We would test the connectors for resistance drop at high currents, then cut and polish the crimps, looking for voids. The "properly crimped" joint was always superior to other methods, such as lugs bolted together, split bolts etc. A proper crimp of stranded wire, when cut and polished looks like one "Solid wire", that is the strands are not visible and have become one wire. Solderings major detract is the damaging of the insullation AND "cold solder joints and some corrosion possibilities. I suspect, this debate will get long and won't be resolved here either. In summary, Get yourself a GOOD Klein or other commercial brand wide anvil crimper made for insulated and non-insulated lugs and use it. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: PatrickW To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Splicing Tiny Wires...? How are you guys splicing thin wires together...? For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires. I'm guessing that twisting them together, soldering, and then covering with heat-shrink tubing is the way to go. Anybody doing anything different/better/easier...? Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139669#139669 http://www.matron=================== === bsp; available via ========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom(at)mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL
Date: Oct 13, 2007
<<> I wasn't clear that the dimension I need is the "horizontal" dimension. bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Zenith-List: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL Could anybody give me a dimension from either the prop hub flange or either motor mount hole to the TOP Firewall mount. I have the motor here and can get the following dimensions but it anyone already has them the "height of the Crankshaft centerline" above the bed mount vertically and the distance from the prop hub horizoontallty to the front motor mount hole in the bed mount. I'll want to be sure the fiberglass nosebowl and cowling kit will fit. Is it a good assumption that the cowling kit will have a few inches of metal to trim so that there is a little wiggle room for that fit, but what seems more important is that the motor be in the correct "front to back" position for the correct CG on the XL Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million
3. The resistance is all that is needed to calculate fuel level. If you want fuel flow, you need to buy a separate sensor. I think Dynon is a great company, but I am biased. -Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics ----- Original Message ---- From: mosquito56 <mosquito-56(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 10:32:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million I am just getting to the interesting parts of the plane, Instrument Panel and fwf. I will shoot out a couple of the questions I wrote down from today. These are in no logical, if I were logical I would be building a bar, not an airplane, order. 1. Ags ingtiions system. Do the locks work on the 601xl? What is a good Ignition switch? Does the ignition switch come with the jab3300 fwf? 2. How can I make it so the hobbs meter only runs when the engine is running? If you've ever left your ignition on you'll understand this one. 3. Dynon ems120, do you need a seperate fuel sender or is the resistance all that is needed. What do you think of Dynon in general? 4. Any thoughts on Grand Rapids efis? Thanx much Don N601NV reserved Starting fuse Laredo, Tx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139694#139694 Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stanley Challgren <challgren(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: CH701 Firewall Forward Kit
Date: Oct 13, 2007
On Apr 9, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Pete Krotje wrote: > Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft announces the release of a complete firewall > forward installation kit for the CH701. Kit includes cowls, mount, > all > systems, prop and spinner. Pete: I had a Jabiru 3300 (Serial #33A67) on our Zenith 601 HDS and you were very helpful as we were ironing out our various cooling and fuel burn problems. We were very pleased with the 3300 and it is my first choice for the 701 I am building now. I notice that the pictures in your April 9 Email have been replaced by "CH 701 Series, Coming soon". I am wondering what progress has been made on the Jab 3300 for the Zenith 701? I am at that point in the 701 building process where the Jon's 701 video and Zenair's graphic instructions suggest I put the engine mount on. Before I order the engine mount I need to make an engine choice, Jabiru 3300 or Rotax 912S. I have previously queried the Zenith list last December on these two choices and received one thoughtful and disquieting responses which I quote below in part: "Hi Stan, I spent an hour on the phone with Jabiru and talked to a owner there. The discussion was to confirm my personal feelings of the Jab 3300 in a 701. Funny enough the owner holds the same belief and concerns that I share. The Jab is a great engine and I have absolutely no problems with it in a 601XL. But your 701 is a different story. Jabiru USA is trying to build a FWF for the 701 right now and they are having major problems. The new arrangement of the hydraulic heads means that the engine must be lowered yet again. What does this mean? It means that you will have to swing an even smaller prop then before and the 701 truly needs a large prop for its airframe. SO some of the negatives involved in choosing a 3300 Engine is truly to heavy FWF is not available yet Direct drive means a smaller less efficient prop for the 701 design, wich benefits greatly from a large prop. Too much power for the airframe Prop placement is below the longerons and throws off the proper placement, handeling may be affected, Jabiru is unsure of this at the moment. Engine is too wide and makes the nose look funny. Cooling is going to be an issue even with the new FWF (possibly) Nose of your plane is longer, possible C or G issues and weight added to tail. Uses more gas then the Rotax for comparable speeds. Single carb, not as efficient as dual at attitude. So truly with the smaller prop, even though the Jabiru 3300 has a better power to weight ratio then the Rotax 912S, it will have less power over all in your 701 and burn a lot more fuel. There is not a very big difference in cost between the Jabiru 3300 and the Rotax 912S after you add the price of the FWF to either engine package. The Jabiru 3300 is all air- cooled in its right it has many benefits but the liquid cooled heads on a plane in Canada is a lot less prone to cooling shock on approach especially if you are flying in Altitudes. Dont get me wrong, I really love the Jabiru 3300, Im not crazy about the 2200 and in a 601 XL I would do my best to help any builder consider the Jab over the Rotax in a flash. But hands down the Rotax is truly the best fit in my opinion for the 701." Notwithstanding the quotes above, I favor the Jab 3300 because of the superior service you provided us even though we had purchased the engine from the unsatisfactory dealer in California. Also, the 3300's beauty, reliability and lack of problems in service is far superior to the 912S. So, the bottom line. Is the 701 compatible with the 3300 and, if so, what is the expected date of the firewall forward package? Stan Challgren N701VG (reserved) 303-674-6910 24754 Chris Drive Evergreen, Co 80439 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: First Flight
Randy, thanks, the thought on the prop is the bite is too much, the RPM is not reaching 3300. only bout 2950 at max level rpm. If the prop works too hard dialing it to a less bite will rev the engine little bit more but create less work on the torque strain. Worst that can happen is to just change it back. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: "Stout, Randy" <Randy.Stout(at)bowebellhowell.com> >Sent: Oct 13, 2007 10:02 AM >To: amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net >Subject: First Flight > >Juan > >Congratulations on the first flight! I didn't realize you were so close. > >You might want to rethink changing pitch on the prop. I'm assuming you have a new 3300 and it has the Bing carb. If you change the pitch, it will have a large effect on the engine temps. What you posted doesn't look too bad for a brand new engine. > >Randy Stout ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: some flying pics of N427JV "Rivet"
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wade jones" <wjones(at)brazoriainet.com>
Subject: Re: some flying pics of N427JV "Rivet"
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Hey Juan ,congrats on your first flight .Another reason to have your plane in flying condition prior to high speed taxi .You have a beautify plane and a great accomplishment. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL plans building Cont. 0200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: some flying pics of N427JV "Rivet" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: some flying pics of N427JV "Rivet"
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Look's like you did a great job,Juan Congralations on 'Rivet's frist flight. Joe N101HD 601XL/RAM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: some flying pics of N427JV "Rivet" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv(at)ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL
Date: Oct 13, 2007
On mine, using the WW XL mount, the crankshaft center line is 6" above the top of the bed mount. The front of the black WW prop hub to the center of the fromt mount hole is 8-3/32". >From the center of the front mount hole horizontally to the firewall at the top motor mounts is 25" (actually 25" to the front face of the flange of the Forward Top Stiffener (6B7-1) at the rivet line, with the rivet line being in line with the top motor mount centers). The rear mount holes of the bed are horizontally 14-5/8" from the face of the firewall at the top of the mount spool washers that are welded on top of the bed rails. I believe this later measurement is the one WW recommends for proper fore/aft engine placement, but I forget what exactly he says that dimension should be (I'm thinking 14-1/2"??). ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL <<> I wasn't clear that the dimension I need is the "horizontal" dimension. bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Unternaehrer To: Zenith List Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Zenith-List: motor mount dimension for corvair on XL Could anybody give me a dimension from either the prop hub flange or either motor mount hole to the TOP Firewall mount. I have the motor here and can get the following dimensions but it anyone already has them the "height of the Crankshaft centerline" above the bed mount vertically and the distance from the prop hub horizoontallty to the front motor mount hole in the bed mount. I'll want to be sure the fiberglass nosebowl and cowling kit will fit. Is it a good assumption that the cowling kit will have a few inches of metal to trim so that there is a little wiggle room for that fit, but what seems more important is that the motor be in the correct "front to back" position for the correct CG on the XL Blue Skies Bob Unternaehrer shilocom(at)mcmsys.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: locking latch
From: "flyingmike9" <mlloyd9(at)csi.com>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
hello list hope you can help i am building a UK spec XL with locking catch looking at the drawings it tells me to drill new stopping hole in the handle how can this be done the mounting plate on the handle is in the way??? and i dont understand how the end stop fits either part no. 6-co-1-6cz does anybody have any pictures that might help me czaw dont answer emails any more Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139788#139788 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Subject: [ Dave Miller ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dave Miller Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Gear Bending Instructions http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tigermiller1595@msn.com.10.13.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <kim.forest(at)surewest.net>
Subject: Cloverdale Fly-In
Date: Oct 13, 2007
Great job by Quality Sport Planes at Cloverdale. And there was not one 601 that I wouldn't be proud to fly. I needed the motivation.... FKeener, N601FK (reserved) 601XL rudder done, stab done, elevator (95%) Wing Kit in garage... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Jab Cowling issue
I ran into a small Jab 3300 cowl issue last week. The cabin heat NACA vent on the cowl, which I thought was going to be on the left side of the cowl, was on the right side of the cowl, and was only a 2". The heat muff that I recieved was a 2" on the side that goes to the cabin heat box, but was a 2 1/4" on the side that connects to the NACA vent. USJabiru was quick to send a new heat muff that has 2" ports on both sides, along with extra scat tubing because now the air will enter from the right side of the cowl, into the right side heat muff, out the left side heat muff, and then have to be routed back to the right side firewall where the cabin heat box is mounted. You may want to check your cowl and heat muff when you get them so you won't have any surprises when you start working on that part. Ron Haslet, TX 601XL-3300 http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Jab dual throttle
I found a small issue with the Jab 601XL 3300 firewall forward, dual throttle installation. It looks like the dual throttle from USJabiru was designed for the pre- 6B8-11 upper angle, and 6B8-10 forward gusset on the 6B7-1 firewall top stiffener. I believe these items (bb8-11,6b7-1) were added a couple of years ago on the 601XL. The center arm of the throttle bell mechanism, won't extend over the upper angle. I thought about shortening the center arm a little, and going through the top stiffener, but I'm afraid I won't have enough throttle travel. I think I can fix it by just extending the center arm an inch or so, but I'm waiting to hear back from USJabiru to see if they have any ideas or how they've dealt with this. Has anyone else dealt with this? Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: General Instrument and engine questions. first of a million
From: "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Oct 13, 2007
The Jabiru already comes with oil pressure sender that has a spare additional contact for grounding the idiot light or hobbs meter when pressure is below 7 psi. This is a good idea because those senders do fail when the wiper inside wears thru the wire at the normal oil pressure spot and if your hobbs is still running or the light is off its OK to continue. There is also a spare port on the oil gallery, the real one that goes to the main bearings, that can be used to mount a switch ( i used one for a Mazda RX7 they are a lower pressure ) I prefer analog gauges and used the Mitchel range from ACS Perhaps mechanical gauges would be even better however I dont think the engine could run for long if the oil line came off you havent got 5 or 6 quarts spare like on a Continental or Lycoming Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139844#139844 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
First..... congratulations!! If you are writing eamils, the flight went reasonably well. Second..... "she took off on me at 40 knots....." Well, duh! Mom, it followed me home. Can I keep it? Have fun and stay safe, Dred ---- Juan Vega wrote: > > after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
A connection on a wire which vibrates will be more durable if it is crimped rather than soldered. This assumes the double crimp technique as demonstrated in the Homebuilt Help video etc. You can use Dow Corning #4 electrolytic goo to air-tight the crimp without increasing the rsistance, then cover with at least one layer of heat shrink, then immobilize the wire as best you can. If it screws up after all that.....chalk it up to the will of God and buy a bicycle. Dred ---- Tim Juhl wrote: > > I'm an old time radio guy and my preference is for soldering when there is no need to take the connection apart again. I also use heat shrink and follow by either wrapping the whole bundle with tape or a bigger piece of heat shrink. > > When I was our school's tech guy I used crimpers for everything.... that said, those connections were not be exposed to weather or vibrated by a bouncing airframe. > > Tim > > -------- > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A > Working on wings > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139758#139758 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 14, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting > on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems > to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the > panel. > > So it seems like the options are: > > A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I > have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be > fitted, so thats a lot of work. > > B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the > top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only > concern with this approach would be water leaking under the access > panel. Any ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? > > Your thoughts/Ideas ? > > Thanks in advance, > John Davis > Burnsville, NC > 601XL QB - Jab 3300 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 14, 2007
I put hatches in the forward top skin. This has really been valuable to get at stuff and seems to work well. I was a little concerned about the canopy interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem. Check it out. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on > the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems to > be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the > panel. > > So it seems like the options are: > > A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I > have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be > fitted, so thats a lot of work. > > B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the > top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only concern > with this approach would be water leaking under the access panel. Any > ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? > > Your thoughts/Ideas ? > > Thanks in advance, > John Davis > Burnsville, NC > 601XL QB - Jab 3300 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
Congrats Juan! The excitment is mutually shared. I bet the 2 hours blew by. Art > > > after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe > dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by > ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and > planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi > tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. 427JV took > off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to burn in > the breaks! > Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average > 1300 to 1300. after about 2 hours they were down to > 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon landing, and > breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was > oil comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail > light, and prop needs to be pitched less. > > Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: "John M. Goodings" <goodings(at)yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: General instrument and engine questions
We have a solution to the "Hobbs on only when engine is running" problem. We installed a Cessna split red master switch (comforting for a long-time Cessna driver!) with just the Hobbs wired to the left side and everything else to the right side. In normal flight operation (as in a Cessna), you turn both halves of the split switch on and off together. But if, for example, you want to work on panel electrics with the engine off, you just turn on the right side of the master switch, and the Hobbs is off. One more thing we did, which turned out to be useful. (I wish I could claim thoughtful foresight, but . . . .) We installed a 4-position ignition switch (off/L/R/both) and a separate push-button start switch, instead of a 5-position (including start) ignition switch; the 4-position switch was MUCH cheaper. This means we can run the starter motor to turn the prop without starting the engine by using the start switch with the ignition switch off. We sometimes want to do this for test purposes, or to turn the prop a few revolutions on a cold day (to get the Rotax "gurgle") to check the oil level before the actual start. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa Carp/Toronto. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2007
PatrickW wrote: > How are you guys splicing thin wires together...? > > For example, where the 5 wires that come out of the aileron servo are spliced to another bundle of 5 wires. Just a follow-up to what I intended versus what I actually did. Lot of differing ideas out there, but this is what worked for me. Intent: 1. Pre-position all the heat shrink tubes before connecting wires. 2. Solder wires. 3. Heat shrink over each wire individually. 4. Heat shrink a big tube over the whole bundle of wires. Reality: 1. Pre-position all the heat shrink tubes before connecting wires. 2. Solder wires. 3. Heat shrink over each wire individually. 4. Cut off the largest size of heat shrink tube, because it wasn't large enough to fit over the mass of individual wires PLUS each heat shrink tube. It all adds up. 5. Black tape over the whole mass of wires. 6. Test trim tab with 9 volt battery. This method appears to be secure and solid, and I don't think that these connections are likely to be a failure point. These wires will never have to be disconnected unless I have to replace the aileron servo itself. I also left a loop of the 5 wire bundle inside the aileron for "slack", tied such that it will not pull or put any stress on the wires. I'll use a molex type connector on the other end of the wire bundle (at the wing root). During inspections I'll certainly be able to see if the black tape starts to dry out or unravel, which is the only thing I can think of that could be a problem. Learning a bit more every day. Upward and onward... Thanks, Patrick XL/Corvair Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139910#139910 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
Subject: [ Ron Ellis ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ron Ellis Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Instrument Panel Access http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rge177@yahoo.com.10.14.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Hunt" <malcolmhunt(at)mha1.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: Re: locking latch
Date: Oct 14, 2007
I punched out the scroll pin to release the handle from the mounting bezel then wrapped the part to be drilled in masking tape and clamped it in the vice of the drilling machine - being soft alloy it drilled easily. It worked for me but use your own judgement! Shame CZAW don't respond. CH601XL Builder in England ----- Original Message ----- From: "flyingmike9" <mlloyd9(at)csi.com> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: Zenith-List: locking latch > > hello list > hope you can help > i am building a UK spec XL with locking catch looking at the drawings it > tells me to drill new stopping hole in the handle how can this be done the > mounting plate on the handle is in the way??? > > and i dont understand how the end stop fits either part no. 6-co-1-6cz > does anybody have any pictures that might help me > > czaw dont answer emails any more > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139788#139788 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Date: Oct 14, 2007
Very Nice! Going to use your idea , if you don't mind. Lot's of room to work .Perfect place for fire ext.too, Did you use short self tappen screws when you mounted the fire ext bracket to the spar? Joe N101 HD 601XL/RAM ----- Original message ----- From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > I put hatches in the forward top skin. This has really been valuable to > get at stuff and seems to work well. I was a little concerned about the > canopy interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem. > Check it out. > > http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm > > > Matt > www.zodiacxl.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > >> >> Hi All, >> >> I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting >> on the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the factory seems >> to be a poor choice since I wont have any easy access to the rear of the >> panel. >> >> So it seems like the options are: >> >> A) Install nutplates or similar and make the entire skin removable. As I >> have a QB kit their are already 90+ rivet holes that would have to be >> fitted, so thats a lot of work. >> >> B) Install the skin permanently but add a couple of access panels on the >> top. Seems like several folks on the list are doing this. My only concern >> with this approach would be water leaking under the access panel. Any >> ideas as to how to prevent/avoid this issue ? >> >> Your thoughts/Ideas ? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> John Davis >> Burnsville, NC >> 601XL QB - Jab 3300 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Conversion Discussion
Just a couple random thoughts while on this topic: I have been an Amsoil user and dealer since 1979. They used to sell an oil specifically for aircraft use. They dropped it over 20 years ago because they didn't want the liability risks. It will never be available again. Although lots of experimental and ultralight types continue to use their products. Oh..and the USA is the land of discrimination completely! The laws against discrimination do NOT count in private matters. e.g. You can build an apartment building or housing development ONLY for those "over age 50" or whatever age you choose. As long as it was privatly funded/built. Hence the many new developments popping up around here that I can't live in. Why do you think the bank has free accounts for older folks? 'Cause they're poor and can't afford the fees? Hell no, because that's where the MONEY IS. Then those same folks go get their 10% discount at the grocery store 'cause they're on a fixed income! HA. One year to go and I can start cashing in! The Mall of American legally refuses entry to those under 18 on Friday nights and weekends unless they have adults/parents with them. The bar down the street has free drink nights for ladies. Figuring a bar full of drunk women brings in money spending guys. The list is endless. I asked a lawyer. If I built an apartment building, and only wanted to rent to good looking redhead women age 21-34, I can. I can also operate my own store and refuse to sell to whites, blacks, martians, old ladies, or whomever I choose. I may have to HIRE them, but I sdon't have to SERVE them. How stupid is all that? Anyway..the wife has been yelling at me to buy some more airplane parts, so I guess spending the dough on a housing development for left handed bald women is out of the question. Tim in Bovey == If both of us thought alike, one of us would not be necessary. == http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Woody sulloway" <sulloway(at)clis.com>
Subject: 601 HD power VS speed
Date: Oct 14, 2007
If you have a 601HD, what is it powered with and what is your cruise speed at 75% power? Any other factors that you believe might affect that speed? Thanks Woody ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Flick" <rflick(at)ovalinternet.net>
Subject: parts
Date: Oct 14, 2007
need a mount and cowl for subaru into my 601. any help appreciated. if anyone would give specs or drawings for a mt i could build my own. thanks ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHETKRU(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2007
Subject: 0-235 Prop
Hi All, for all you folks using a Lycoming 0-235, I am interested in finding information on what type of prop you are using. I live in Las Vegas and I would like to be able to get good climb performance. I have a Lyc 0-235-N2C installed on a 601 XL. Any numbers greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chet K. N929RS ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 0-235 Prop
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: passpat(at)aol.com
we used a sensenich 54X68 wood composit -----Original Message----- From: CHETKRU(at)aol.com Sent: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 7:29 pm Subject: Zenith-List: 0-235 Prop Hi All,???for all you folks using a Lycoming 0-235, I am interested in finding information on what type of prop you are using.? I live in Las Vegas and I would like to be able to get good climb performance. I have a Lyc 0-235-N2C installed on a 601 XL.? Any numbers greatly appreciated. ? Thanks, ? Chet K. N929RS See what's new ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Jab dual throttle
Date: Oct 14, 2007
Ron, I installed my Jabiru 3300 about a year ago. I bought it and the FWF about two years ago. So I have parts of that vintage. The FWF came first by several months. I have the dual throttle option. For the center throttle cable I drilled a hole in the "shelf" with no problems. I used the thicker XL shelf with the cabin side U channel and the XL gussets between the shelf and the nose gear channel. The current design in this area has been enhanced further. I don't have XL plans to follow the current configuration, but where I had a concern was at the point where the throttle cables come through the firewall. The FSF package had simple bulkhead fittings there. When the throttle was moved, it tried to flex the firewall as the outer arms on the throttle rod over the shelf moved up and down. See Larry McFarland's web site for the fix using a vertical slot for the throttle cable through the firewall. I modified the solution a bit, and will supply pictures if you like, but the basic design is Larry's. Jeff Davidson I found a small issue with the Jab 601XL 3300 firewall forward, dual throttle installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: access panels
From: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: Oct 14, 2007
Dave, Good job and great picture. I do have a question though. Isn't that the wrong color nav light? Left wing should be red I think. Dan DaveG601XL wrote: > Carlos, > > The only supplies you will need are MS21075L3 nut plates, MS20426AD3-2 rivets (2 per nut plate) and a screw AN525-10R7 per nut plate. Tools will be a drill and snips to cut the holes needed. You do not need to dimple the rivet heads if you do not want. I have countersunk mine. You can use a hammer and flat punch to set the rivets if you do not have a rivet gun. Here is a picture of the hole in my XL wing tip showing the strobe pack inside. It also makes a good inspection hole. > > Good Luck, -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139977#139977 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
it flew by! no punn intended. the pitch reduction worked to get the rpm to 3300 at cruise. cht still 350 and egt 1350 at 115 knots. -----Original Message----- >From: Art Olechowski <ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.net> >Sent: Oct 14, 2007 9:39 AM >To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! > > >Congrats Juan! The excitment is mutually shared. I bet >the 2 hours blew by. > >Art >> >> >> after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe >> dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by >> ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and >> planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi >> tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. 427JV took >> off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to burn in >> the breaks! >> Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average >> 1300 to 1300. after about 2 hours they were down to >> 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon landing, and >> breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was >> oil comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail >> light, and prop needs to be pitched less. >> >> Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >> >> Web Forums! >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: rivet pics in zephyrhills
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: rivet pics in zephyrhills
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: more rivet pics first cross country
Juan Vega ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: more rivet pics first cross country
Juan Vega ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2007
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: more rivet pics first cross country
-----Original Message----- >From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Oct 14, 2007 9:46 PM >To: Zodiac Forum >Subject: more rivet pics first cross country > >Juan Vega ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Cushion Thickness
From: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net>
Date: Oct 14, 2007
How thick should the seat cushions be? I'd also like to hear whether folks are making their own upholstery or having it made. All perspectives welcome. Dan (plans building 601XL) -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139982#139982 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat Cushion Thickness
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 14, 2007
There is a very good site at http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm It has a good article on how to doit yourself seats. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140013#140013 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jab dual throttle
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Oct 14, 2007
I am planning on ordering the jab3300 with dual throttles tomorrow. Please let me know if Jab answers your problem. Vendors seem more than willing to spend hours talking to you to sell you something but when you buy the item and call for support, they say I will get back to you and never do. This is one reason I decided not to order the new Rans S-19. I had alot of trouble with Rans after I bought my S-12. Let me know if you get an answer. Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140015#140015 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: access panels
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
Well Dan, you got me on that one. In my defense, I only grabbed the closest light to me and used it as the guinea pig on both sides for fit-ups. The lights have not been back in since and await patiently in the box. One more thing, the hole in the outer panel, as it turns out, is a great grip point for lifting the wing. It has proved to be strong enough to use as a hand hold without distorting. I upped the tip skin piece to .025 (kit is .016). Good luck, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140036#140036 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "Float Flyr" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
I'd like to make a few points. first, for the harness you describes I'd install a multi conductor junction connector like a Moulinex or Cannon to make change outs easier. Second, If you really don't think the connector is the way to go then stagger your solder joints so no joint can come in direct contact with another joint. Making the joints that way keeps down the diameter of the final complete splice and protects form the possibility of a short circuit. Save the electric tape for ground applications. Use only heat shrink on aircraft wiring. Noel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140049#140049 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Connectors for small diameter wires
From: charles.long(at)allisontransmission.com
Date: Oct 15, 2007
Electric Bob had a good suggestion for crimping the very fine wires used on the Mac servo trim system. He suggested using the D Sub connector series. He also sells the crimping tool for a very reasonable price. I took his advice and am very pleased with the results. The crimping tool was very easy to use, He suggested Faston connections for the bigger wires, another great connection system, especially if you use the automotive type fuse block and switches. For those unfamiliar with connectors, the D Sub series is ultra high volume - computer grade. Pins are gold contact - the best metal for connections if you can afford it. Good news is the DB connectors are affordable due to the high volumes - a win win situation. It is good to strain relieve the wires as well by bundling together and tying them down so they don't vibrate. I concur that solder joints are something to avoid because of pour fatigue resistance. Electric Bob's business is called B&C specialty products. The crimper is an RCT-3 and they also sell connector systems. Another source for connectors is Mouser Electronics. They too have an online store. I have had good success with both of these outfits over the years. Chuck Long Zodie Rocket N601LE, 150 hr TT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Jab dual throttle
Jeff, Thanks for the info, and I would like to see some pics. I'll take a look at Larry's site also. Mosquito56, I've had to contact USJabiru 4 or 5 times, and so far they've been very responsive. I'll let you know what they say this time. Ron 601XL-3300 From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jab dual throttle Ron, I installed my Jabiru 3300 about a year ago. I bought it and the FWF about two years ago. So I have parts of that vintage. The FWF came first by several months. I have the dual throttle option. For the center throttle cable I drilled a hole in the "shelf" with no problems. I used the thicker XL shelf with the cabin side U channel and the XL gussets between the shelf and the nose gear channel. The current design in this area has been enhanced further. I don't have XL plans to follow the current configuration, but where I had a concern was at the point where the throttle cables come through the firewall. The FSF package had simple bulkhead fittings there. When the throttle was moved, it tried to flex the firewall as the outer arms on the throttle rod over the shelf moved up and down. See Larry McFarland's web site for the fix using a vertical slot for the throttle cable through the firewall. I modified the solution a bit, and will supply pictures if you like, but the basic design is Larry's. Jeff Davidson I found a small issue with the Jab 601XL 3300 firewall forward, dual throttle installation. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 701 Dual Controls. ref Michael Rand.
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
Michael. I got your email but my replies keep coming back as undeliverable. According to the internet mailman your system has me flagged as a spammer. If you can fix this at your end I can send you various data. Attached is a Pic of my dual controls at the moment without the cover on. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140065#140065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0030_176.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
Date: Oct 15, 2007
From: japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Juan, Great News!! Same thing happened to me on first high speed taxi test. Obviously high speed taxi test should be about 10-20 mph. I know your proud and you can expect those CHT temps to go down as the motor works out, Again, congratulations, Bill of Georgia 601XL-3300 120 hrs? -----Original Message----- From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 6:24 am Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys! after putting on the cowling and setting up yhe dynon system on Rivet the wonder plane ,so named by ,my wife , I started her up for the first time and planned to do taxi tests. so much for the taxi tests, she took off on me at 40 knots!. 427JV took off and went up to 1500 feet, wrong place to burn in the breaks! Flys hands off. Temps were CHT-340, EGT was average 1300 to 1300. after about 2 hours they were down to 345 and 1290. did high speed taxi upon landing, and breaks work fine. took cwl off and only issue was oil comingloose oil filter, screws fell off tail light, and prop needs to be pitched less. Juan Vega, 601xl, J 3300. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jab dual throttle
From: "lgingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
I was unimpressed with the dual throttle that I received. I changed quite a few of the parts, and it works great now. See my log entry around 8/17/2005 at http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/constructionlog.asp to see what I did. Cheers, ..lance Zodiac XL/Jabiru3300 http://lancegingell.com/planebuild/ -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140086#140086 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MaxNr(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 15, 2007
Subject: Re: O-235 Prop
A starting point and one way to a deal with it is to plagiarize and use what the competion (type certified A/C) are using and develop from there. They test an engine/prop combination that will in turn cut down some development time on your part. Some examples: Last weekend, I flew a Piper PA-38 Tomahawk with a O-235 L2C. It had a Sensenich 72CK-O-56. Type Cert. Data Sheet for the PA38 (TCDS #A18SO) says that it can be cut down to no less than 70 in. PA 38 is a 1670 LB GW bird that climbs at maxGW on a 20 dg C day at 500 fpm and cruises about 100KT at 2400 rpm. Plan on about 6.5 gal per HR at 3000'. I have an engine/prop combo from a Grumman American/Tiger LLC AA-1. It is a O-235C2C with a McCauly 71/54. TCDS #A11EA for the AA1 also approves the 71/53 and 71/57 props. Never flew a Yankee, but its a 1560 # GW and goes over 100KT. It has 3' less span and about 10Sq ft less wing area than a 601XL. To see a AA1 with a cruise prop take off on a hot day at GW is painful to watch. More Diameter for a given pitch gives more low speed "dig", noise and climb.(seaplanes) Less diameter gives more speed. 71" diameter is about the most I will use for the 601XL because of ground clearance. Could cut down to 70". Also could re-pitch another inch or two later. Another thing about both of these certified birds is that the airframe mfgr limits max RPM at 2600 RPM. They had to meet a noise certification standard. I have the latest O-235 Operators Manual and it says that "Rated Power" is at 2800 RPM all day long. My plan is to list my limits as 2800 for 5 minutes and Max Continuos Power (MCP) as 2600. Climb performance is important to me too. TBO is 2400 hrs. The only max operating time limits for the engine are for CHT and oil temp. FAA TCDS for certified A/C have a lot of data re: engines for us builders. Go to FAA home page, Clk on Aircraft, scroll down to Tech Info and select the TCDS. I also downloaded an Excel spreadsheet from Sport Aviation for prop selection. Its neat. Bob, Pace,FL XL/Lyc (tail feathers) ************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rivet the 601xl plane Flys!
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)COMCAST.NET>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
Juan, In Toyota speak "OH What A Feeling!!!!" Sorry I missed the announcement, was away for the weekend. Congratulations! -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140124#140124 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2007
From: Gary Olson <n113gb(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine for sale
Fellow listers, I have a brand new, fully assembled, never run, 2276 Great Plains VW with a 1:6/1 reduction drive that I am looking to sell. I had intended it to power my Kitfox S7. My initial intention was to install the VW because of its low cost, weight, and ease of maintenance. This decision was made when I was forced to let my medical lapse and pursue sport pilot flying. My Fox is about 90% complete and the is engine installed. Due to the fact that I am now able to obtain a valid medical, I am now going to install a larger (and heavier) engine to meet the aircraft's 1550# gross weight capacity. I have listed the particulars of the engine below. The total cost of this engine if purchased from Great Plains is over $6800 (plus $850 for assembly and crating). I will listen to any reasonable offers. If interested please e-mail me off list and I will send you pictures of the engine and accessories. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. 920 379-6668. Thanks. Aluminum engine case Valley engineering 1:6/1 Reduction drive Heavy duty cast iron oil pump Compufire DIS-IX distributorless ignition system with the Bosch 009 dist. Total Seal Gapless 2nd Ring Set Unision Slick ignition harness Lycoming bushings Starter Brand new Unison Slick Magneto 4316 Oil filter adapter EMPI 00-9244-0 Curtis drain valve gascolator Diehl Acessory case. Starter in the 12 o'clock position Premium head upgrade Oil temp, pressure sending units Downdraft intake manifold Bolt on aluminum valve covers Negotiable items include: Aerovee carburetor (s-flange) ACV-CO4 35 mm with Aerovee Filter All stainless hoses currently on engine Gary Olson Kitfox Series 7 2276 VW redrive Oshkosh, WI. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp(at)msn.com>
Subject: Dumb Aileron Trim Question
Date: Oct 15, 2007
I am installing the roll trim in the port aileron and as I prepare to drill through the bottom skin into the cut out channel (6-ATO-1-2) I noticed that my rivet holes through the skin do not line up with my line drawn at 10mm edge distance on the channel. This happened even though the edge of the bend radius on the channel does line up with the edge of the skin. My assumption is that this is due to the twist built into the aileron. Any thoughts from those of you smarter than me?? Brad Cohen 601XL-TD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Cohen" <bradfnp(at)msn.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2007
I am installing the aileron trim tab and as I am getting ready to install the aileron cutout channel I noticed that the holes I drilled in the bottom of the aileron skin do not align with the 10mm edge distance line that I have drawn on the bottom of the cutout channel. This dispite the fact the the bend radius of the channel does line up with the cut edge of the aileron skin. I assume that this is because of the twist built into the aileron....any thoughts from all you out there much smarter than I? Brad Cohen XL-TD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2007
From: Ron Ellis <rge177(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Access
Nice job Matt. I did something similar, but didn't hinge them, and they are a little smaller, but very helpful getting behind the panel. I put a pic in the photo share. Ron 601XL-3300 From: "Matt & Jo" <archermj(at)swbell.net> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access I put hatches in the forward top skin. This has really been valuable to get at stuff and seems to work well. I was a little concerned about the canopy interference but now that the canopy is on I haven't had a problem. Check it out. http://www.zodiacxl.com/Fwd%20Top%20Skin.htm Matt www.zodiacxl.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Davis" <johnd@data-tech.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument Panel Access > > Hi All, > > I'm just wrapping up my electrical work and am getting close to putting on > the front skin over the panel area. Riveting it per the ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Splicing Tiny Wires...?
From: "billmileski" <mileski(at)sonalysts.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2007
This is a good topic on which to read the many thoughts by Bob Nuckolls (sp?). I don't always agree with him, but in this case, good quality crimp splices and a proper double-crimping tool will make a nice connection with one of the die, and grab the insulation with the other die, creating a strain relief. A good choice are "window" splices, which are transparent, allowing you to see that wire has been inserted fully. Tons of info on this at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf


October 05, 2007 - October 16, 2007

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