Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-ao
July 11, 2010 - November 08, 2010
Let me try this again.
This being a second go at seats, we had a local auto upholstery shop
make separate backs and seats. No plywood or anything else. Have only
had the bird back in the air for a month but all seems to work well. I
made the side panels myself -- not hard -- about $60 for material.
Attached with velcro, as someone suggested and it works fine on one
side. Other side needs some fine tuning. I'll send pictures tomorrow
if anyone wants them.
Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to see those pictures of your panels. I am trying to get
idea's in both of these area's. I want the panels to be secure, but also
easily removed for annuals.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
In a message dated 7/11/2010 1:56:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jfowler120(at)verizon.net writes:
Let me try this again.
This being a second go at seats, we had a local auto upholstery shop make
separate backs and seats. No plywood or anything else. Have only had the
bird back in the air for a month but all seems to work well. I made the
side panels myself -- not hard -- about $60 for material. Attached with
velcro, as someone suggested and it works fine on one side. Other side needs
some fine tuning. I'll send pictures tomorrow if anyone wants them.
Karl
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Larry,
I'm not the one you asked, but here are a couple of photos of my side wall
panels. The forward panels are fastened to the skin with the upholstery
level with the tops of the angles. I put vertical strips of Velcro on th
e skins and horizontal strips on the panels. That way, there is no blind
alignment required. The panels beside the seats are mounted on top of th
e vertical angles. I riveted small angles to the structural angles and ap
plied Velcro to those, again vertical with horizontal strips on the panels
. All the panels were made of a plastic corrugated board as a base, with
1/4" foam and fabric applied, all from Airtex Products, Inc.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: LHusky(at)aol.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 5:10 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: seats
I would like to see those pictures of your panels. I am trying to get ide
a's in both of these area's. I want the panels to be secure, but also eas
ily removed for annuals.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
In a message dated 7/11/2010 1:56:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jfowler12
0(at)verizon.net writes:
Let me try this again.
This being a second go at seats, we had a local auto upholstery shop mak
e separate backs and seats. No plywood or anything else. Have only had
the bird back in the air for a month but all seems to work well. I mad
e the side panels myself -- not hard -- about $60 for material. Attache
d with velcro, as someone suggested and it works fine on one side. Othe
r side needs some fine tuning. I'll send pictures tomorrow if anyone wa
nts them.
Karl
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t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
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ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
DO NOT ENTER ANY PASSWORD, JUST YOUR USER NAME CHOICE
Check out my line of items for Experimental Airplane Builders
My Products: http://www.mykitairplane.com/Products/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Informal campfire gathering at Oshkosh |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
This is an invitation to a campfire gathering at Oshkosh for Zenith builders, flyers
and others. Dr. Ed Moody and I are going to attempt to set our camps up
side by side in some yet to be determined location in Camp Scholler. IF we are
successful, we are inviting anyone who is interested to join us (weather permitting)
for an informal gathering Tuesday (July 27) starting at 6 PM until whenever.
This event should not be confused with the Builders Dinner on Thursday.
Bring your lawn chairs, beverages and etc. If you want to cook a hot dog or marshmallows
over the fire, well have some campfire forks but otherwise it is BYO.
Well provide a place and a fire the rest is up to you.
Directions to our camps will be posted at the Zenith display and the bulletin boards
nearest the East Gate to Camp Scholler and the Camper Locator building at
the intersection of Schaick and Stitts Streets. Schaick is the main east-west
road through the camp. Well have a small sign by the street and Ed will have
a 5th Wheel while Ill have a white Mercedes Sprinter Van converted to a camper.
I will also have my cell phone on from late afternoon on Tuesday. I wont have
much opportunity to charge it so most of the time I am in Oshkosh it will be off.
The # is 810-357-7575.
In closing Ed & I are taking the attitude that well provide a place and see what
happens. At the very least, he and I will have a chance to talk face-to-face
and compare the merits of Louisiana Boudin to Michigan Bratwurst.
Enjoy Oshkosh!
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305180#305180
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Ashcraft <ch701builder(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Salt Lake Area Fliers |
All, I am in the Salt Lake area, and was wondering if there are
any fliers in the area. I know it is a late notice, but is there
a chance to go fly tomorrow (7-18-2010), my only day off.
Thanks
Keith
CH701 scratch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | N708HU is back up after upgrade |
Another CH601XL is back in the air after the upgrade. We finished
the upgrade two weeks ago and then did the condition inspection. It
first flew last July 15.
Other than the elimination of the "oil can" effect that the wing
was noted for no changes in performance were noted.
The upgrade weight addition is 28 pounds (+/- the accuracy of the
scales). I discovered a small error in the scale so it may not be
possible to perfectly the correct original weight. I expect this is with
2-3 pounds of the correct value.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N708HU is back up after upgrade |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Mark,
Glad to see you back flying. An increased 30 pounds is about what I saw too.
Now just 5 hours of 'phase 1' flight test and you will be back in business.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
140+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305439#305439
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much will
stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd use?
Chuck Dean
Ch650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306152#306152
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim bonding |
3M weatherstrip adhesive. It's available at many auto parts stores and aircraft
supply outlets.
On Jul 24, 2010, at 2:16 PM, chuck960 wrote:
>
> I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much will
stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd use?
> Chuck Dean
> Ch650
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
I used Stick-N-Seal from Walmart. It just takes some care to make sure the
surfaces are clean and not to smear it. Zenith recommended.
Jeff Davidson
I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much
will stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd
use?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
An old post from 2006:
"++ The magic bullet for attaching rubber to the canopy is a product called
"Poly
Zap" made by Pacer Technology. It is very specialized instant glue for
adhering the
slippery plastics together like Nylon, Delran, etc. Because is specialized
you may
not find it on the shelf at your local hobby shop, but you can easily find
and buy
it on-line. Application is so simple you essentially can't mess up if you
just take
your time. Most people think they have to spread a continuous amount of
glue from
one end to the other under the rubber and at the same time keep things lined
up and
worry about glue oozing out. Nope... just put the rubber strip in place
where it's
supposed to be on the canopy, then lift the edge of the rubber up at one end
and
place a small dot (about 1/8" in size, doesn't take much) about half way
down the
depth of the rubber seal and let the rubber gently come back in contact with
the
canopy. When that end is "tacked", move to the other end, pull the slack
out of
the rubber and tack that end. Now it's held in place. Then, go to the
middle, half
way between the two glue dots, lift the rubber up at that point and place
another
dot down in there. Then do it again between that middle dot and each of the
end
dots and so on, and so on until you have these dots applied about every 3 or
4
inches. Do the same on the inside edge of the canopy and it's done. This
type of
instant glue has a shorter shelf life than some of the others so keep it in
a
plastic bag in the refrigerator and it will remain good to use for a long
time. My
aircraft has been flying for 4 years now and NOT ONE of those glue dots has
let go.
Tail winds..... Fred Hulen"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chuck960
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:17 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
-->
I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much
will stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd
use?
Chuck Dean
Ch650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306152#306152
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim bonding |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
I used "PolyZap" also. Worked great !
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 5:28 pm
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
m>
An old post from 2006:
"++ The magic bullet for attaching rubber to the canopy is a product calle
d
"Poly
Zap" made by Pacer Technology. It is very specialized instant glue for
adhering the
slippery plastics together like Nylon, Delran, etc. Because is specialized
you may
not find it on the shelf at your local hobby shop, but you can easily find
and buy
it on-line. Application is so simple you essentially can't mess up if you
just take
your time. Most people think they have to spread a continuous amount of
glue from
one end to the other under the rubber and at the same time keep things lin
ed
up and
worry about glue oozing out. Nope... just put the rubber strip in place
where it's
supposed to be on the canopy, then lift the edge of the rubber up at one
end
and
place a small dot (about 1/8" in size, doesn't take much) about half way
down the
depth of the rubber seal and let the rubber gently come back in contact wi
th
the
canopy. When that end is "tacked", move to the other end, pull the slack
out of
the rubber and tack that end. Now it's held in place. Then, go to the
middle, half
way between the two glue dots, lift the rubber up at that point and place
another
dot down in there. Then do it again between that middle dot and each of th
e
end
dots and so on, and so on until you have these dots applied about every 3
or
4
inches. Do the same on the inside edge of the canopy and it's done. This
type of
instant glue has a shorter shelf life than some of the others so keep it
in
a
plastic bag in the refrigerator and it will remain good to use for a long
time. My
aircraft has been flying for 4 years now and NOT ONE of those glue dots ha
s
let go.
Tail winds..... Fred Hulen"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chuck960
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:17 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
-->
I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much
will stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd
use?
Chuck Dean
Ch650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306152#306152
========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim bonding |
Remember that you will eventually have to replace that piece of rubber
-- don't make it impossible.
Karl
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
I used "PolyZap" also. Worked great !
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 5:28 pm
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
An old post from 2006:
"++ The magic bullet for attaching rubber to the canopy is a product
called
"Poly
Zap" made by Pacer Technology. It is very specialized instant glue for
adhering the
slippery plastics together like Nylon, Delran, etc. Because is
specialized
you may
not find it on the shelf at your local hobby shop, but you can easily
find
and buy
it on-line. Application is so simple you essentially can't mess up if
you
just take
your time. Most people think they have to spread a continuous amount of
glue from
one end to the other under the rubber and at the same time keep things
lined
up and
worry about glue oozing out. Nope... just put the rubber strip in place
where it's
supposed to be on the canopy, then lift the edge of the rubber up at one
end
and
place a small dot (about 1/8" in size, doesn't take much) about half way
down the
depth of the rubber seal and let the rubber gently come back in contact
with
the
canopy. When that end is "tacked", move to the other end, pull the
slack
out of
the rubber and tack that end. Now it's held in place. Then, go to the
middle, half
way between the two glue dots, lift the rubber up at that point and
place
another
dot down in there. Then do it again between that middle dot and each of
the
end
dots and so on, and so on until you have these dots applied about every
3 or
4
inches. Do the same on the inside edge of the canopy and it's done.
This
type of
instant glue has a shorter shelf life than some of the others so keep it
in
a
plastic bag in the refrigerator and it will remain good to use for a
long
time. My
aircraft has been flying for 4 years now and NOT ONE of those glue dots
has
let go.
Tail winds..... Fred Hulen"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chuck960
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:17 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Trim bonding
-->
I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not
much
will stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith
crowd
use?
Chuck Dean
Ch650
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306152#306152
t" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim bonding |
Hi Chuck,
I used Poly Zap, comes in a tube and you only need to use a single drop
each inch. Not to be smeared on the acrylic, but placed at the bottom of
the rubber groove.
Holds "forever" without worry.
Larry McFarland 601hds at www.macsmachine.com
chuck960 wrote:
>
> I'm about to bond the forward rubber seal to the canopy plastic. Not much will
stick to Plexiglass or rubber. What does the rest of the Zenith crowd use?
> Chuck Dean
> Ch650
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306152#306152
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given
that one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight
stress so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry
about a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <Jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air vent mount |
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>
> Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
Zenair Newsletter, Issue #174, Page 11 (picture)
> I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given
> that one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight
> stress so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry
> about a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>
> --
> Mark Hubelbank
> NorthEast Monitoring
> 2 Clock Tower Place
> Suite 555
> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
> mhubel(at)nemon.com
> 978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air vent mount |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Mark,
I used a drill bit made for acrylics and drilled a 1/4" hole in the center
. Then I used a Dremel with a small spiral drum cutter, with the Dremel
mounted on their device made to cut circles and cut to the finish line.
I had tried to cut a circle with the Dremel just hand held on a scrap an
d it didn't go so good. The Dremel circle cutter device made it a piece
of cake. I went really slow to keep the melting to a minimum, but still
had to sandpaper a little bit to get a real smooth hole.
Hope; this helps - Jay Bannister
Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents? I
would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given that
one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight stress
so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry about
a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his 601XL
canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter. As I recall he
used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from both sides, I can't
recall.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Hubelbank
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given that
one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight stress so
the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry about a crack
forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com> |
Rich Vetterli did his by using a hole saw, turned by hand from both sides, centered
on a .25" hole from a plexi drill. It took awhile, but it did turn out nicely,
and there were no cracks.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Jul 25, 2010 12:22 PM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>
>
>I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his 601XL
>canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter. As I recall he
>used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from both sides, I can't
>recall.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>Hubelbank
>Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>
>
>Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
>I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given that
>one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight stress so
>the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry about a crack
>forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>
>--
>Mark Hubelbank
>NorthEast Monitoring
>2 Clock Tower Place
>Suite 555
>Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>mhubel(at)nemon.com
>978-443-3955
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air vent mount |
Thanks to all who have replied.
It sounds like a toss up between the hand operated hole saw and a
dremmel tool with a hole adapter. I assume the trick with a hole saw is
to cut very slowly using very little pressure. That sounds safe enough.
On 07/25/2010 12:58 PM, Rick Lindstrom wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom
>
> Rich Vetterli did his by using a hole saw, turned by hand from both sides, centered
on a .25" hole from a plexi drill. It took awhile, but it did turn out
nicely, and there were no cracks.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Craig Payne<craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>> Sent: Jul 25, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>>
>> I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his 601XL
>> canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter. As I recall he
>> used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from both sides, I can't
>> recall.
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>> Hubelbank
>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark Hubelbank
>>
>> Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
>> I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given that
>> one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a slight stress so
>> the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit risky. I worry about a crack
>> forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Hubelbank
>> NorthEast Monitoring
>> 2 Clock Tower Place
>> Suite 555
>> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>> mhubel(at)nemon.com
>> 978-443-3955
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
Remember there are hole saws (cylinder with multiple teeth) and fly cutters
(adjustable arm with a single cutting tooth like a lathe tool):
http://www.osborneatelier.com/images/T004_fly_cutter.JPG
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Hubelbank
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
Thanks to all who have replied.
It sounds like a toss up between the hand operated hole saw and a dremmel
tool with a hole adapter. I assume the trick with a hole saw is to cut very
slowly using very little pressure. That sounds safe enough.
On 07/25/2010 12:58 PM, Rick Lindstrom wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Rick
> --> Lindstrom
>
> Rich Vetterli did his by using a hole saw, turned by hand from both sides,
centered on a .25" hole from a plexi drill. It took awhile, but it did turn
out nicely, and there were no cracks.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Craig Payne<craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>> Sent: Jul 25, 2010 12:22 PM
>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig
>> --> Payne"
>>
>> I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his
>> 601XL canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter.
>> As I recall he used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from
>> both sides, I can't recall.
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>> Hubelbank
>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark
>> --> Hubelbank
>>
>> Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
>> I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given
>> that one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a
>> slight stress so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit
>> risky. I worry about a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Hubelbank
>> NorthEast Monitoring
>> 2 Clock Tower Place
>> Suite 555
>> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>> mhubel(at)nemon.com
>> 978-443-3955
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air vent mount |
Craig.
I do have both. My conclusion is that fly cutters are only to be
used when nothing else will work, and in a drill press and if you can't
find any way to avoid it.
On 07/26/2010 1:32 PM, Craig Payne wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
>
> Remember there are hole saws (cylinder with multiple teeth) and fly cutters
> (adjustable arm with a single cutting tooth like a lathe tool):
>
> http://www.osborneatelier.com/images/T004_fly_cutter.JPG
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Hubelbank
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:54 AM
> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark Hubelbank
>
> Thanks to all who have replied.
>
> It sounds like a toss up between the hand operated hole saw and a dremmel
> tool with a hole adapter. I assume the trick with a hole saw is to cut very
> slowly using very little pressure. That sounds safe enough.
>
> On 07/25/2010 12:58 PM, Rick Lindstrom wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Rick
>> --> Lindstrom
>>
>> Rich Vetterli did his by using a hole saw, turned by hand from both sides,
>>
> centered on a .25" hole from a plexi drill. It took awhile, but it did turn
> out nicely, and there were no cracks.
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>>> From: Craig Payne<craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>>> Sent: Jul 25, 2010 12:22 PM
>>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>>
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig
>>> --> Payne"
>>>
>>> I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his
>>> 601XL canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter.
>>> As I recall he used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from
>>> both sides, I can't recall.
>>>
>>> -- Craig
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>>> Hubelbank
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
>>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>>
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark
>>> --> Hubelbank
>>>
>>> Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
>>> I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given
>>> that one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a
>>> slight stress so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit
>>> risky. I worry about a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Hubelbank
>>> NorthEast Monitoring
>>> 2 Clock Tower Place
>>> Suite 555
>>> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>>> mhubel(at)nemon.com
>>> 978-443-3955
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Mark Hubelbank
> NorthEast Monitoring
> 2 Clock Tower Place
> Suite 555
> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
> mhubel(at)nemon.com
> 978-443-3955
>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air vent mount |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Mark,
The only way to use a fly cutter, either on thin aluminum or acrylic plast
ic is to hold and turn it by hand. It takes a LONG time with either mater
ial, but it will work.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
Craig.
I do have both. My conclusion is that fly cutters are only to be used
when nothing else will work, and in a drill press and if you can't find
any way to avoid it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
OK, just remember that I'm talking about turning it in your hand, not
chucked in a hand drill. I agree that a fly cutter in a hand drill is a
recipe for disaster. But when I saw Doug use it as a hand tool for his vent
it did the job with no fuss or cracking.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Hubelbank
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
Craig.
I do have both. My conclusion is that fly cutters are only to be used
when nothing else will work, and in a drill press and if you can't find any
way to avoid it.
On 07/26/2010 1:32 PM, Craig Payne wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig
> --> Payne"
>
> Remember there are hole saws (cylinder with multiple teeth) and fly
> cutters (adjustable arm with a single cutting tooth like a lathe tool):
>
> http://www.osborneatelier.com/images/T004_fly_cutter.JPG
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Hubelbank
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:54 AM
> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark
> --> Hubelbank
>
> Thanks to all who have replied.
>
> It sounds like a toss up between the hand operated hole saw and a
> dremmel tool with a hole adapter. I assume the trick with a hole saw
> is to cut very slowly using very little pressure. That sounds safe enough.
>
> On 07/25/2010 12:58 PM, Rick Lindstrom wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Rick
>> --> Lindstrom
>>
>> Rich Vetterli did his by using a hole saw, turned by hand from both
>> sides,
>>
> centered on a .25" hole from a plexi drill. It took awhile, but it did
> turn out nicely, and there were no cracks.
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>>> From: Craig Payne<craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>>> Sent: Jul 25, 2010 12:22 PM
>>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>>
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig
>>> --> Payne"
>>>
>>> I watched Doug Dugger at Quality Sport Planes cut the hole in his
>>> 601XL canopy. He did it by manually turning a hand-held fly cutter.
>>> As I recall he used WD-40 as a lubricant. It might help to cut from
>>> both sides, I can't recall.
>>>
>>> -- Craig
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>>> Hubelbank
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:23 AM
>>> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Zenith601-List: Air vent mount
>>>
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Mark
>>> --> Hubelbank
>>>
>>> Has anyone made the 3.25 inch hole in the canopy for snap in air vents?
>>> I would like to know what is the best method to use to do this given
>>> that one can not do it in a drill press. The plastic is under a
>>> slight stress so the idea of using a normal hole saw seems a bit
>>> risky. I worry about a crack forming in the plastic and quickly growing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Hubelbank
>>> NorthEast Monitoring
>>> 2 Clock Tower Place
>>> Suite 555
>>> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>>> mhubel(at)nemon.com
>>> 978-443-3955
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Mark Hubelbank
> NorthEast Monitoring
> 2 Clock Tower Place
> Suite 555
> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
> mhubel(at)nemon.com
> 978-443-3955
>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
Some months ago, AOPA Pilot ran an article on the XL that, IMHO, was very
uncomplimentary, and seemed to be generally misinformed. At least one of the
principals at Zenith responded to the article, as did I. We were both treated
very discourteously, and AOPA's initial negative position was reinforced.
This resulted in several emails on these lists suggesting that perhaps we
should consider not renewing our memberships in AOPA. Others suggested that
this would be throwing out the baby with the bath water, and may have felt
AOPA was doing an acceptable job.
While I've heard no further comments from AOPA on the XL, I have noticed that
AOPA appears to be taking a firmer stand with the government on several issues
that will negatively impact pilots, something they, again IMHO, had not been
doing. I wonder if this not may be the result of the new leadership at AOPA.
I was particularly disturbed about the XL article, not just because I'm
building an XL, but because AOPA's charter is to promote general aviation. The
same article could have been written in a more constructive manner, and
possibly helped the situation.
For these reasons, when my membership came up for renewal this month, I wrote
AOPA a letter, telling them that I considered this a probationary renewal. I
presented the things just outlined, stating that I was willing to give the new
leadership a chance, but that if things did not change, it would be my last
year of membership.
If you are unhappy with their performance in recent years, this may be a way
of calling it to their attention, and giving them an opportunity to fix it. I
hate to cancel my membership after many years, but neither will I accept the
level of performance they have demonstrated in recent years.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McArdle" <rmacpunk(at)netzero.net> |
Has anyone used decal stripes or designs on their xl over base paint?
Any problems going over rivets? Where is the best place to purchase
these?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 14:03:53 you wrote:
> Has anyone used decal stripes or designs on their xl over base paint? Any
> problems going over rivets? Where is the best place to purchase these?
There was a fairly lengthy discussion on this on zenith.zero about a year and
a half ago. See:
http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics/vinyl-vs-
paint?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A24574
As I recall, everybody wanted to used decals, but nobody could agree about
where to get them, dangers involved, or application over rivets. The reference
is probably worth reading for the thought processes.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I attended the zenair forum presentation yesterday with Matthieu Heintz on
the microphone and had a great conversation today with one of the high level
FAA guys who has been involved with this issue for a long time (I also spoke
with this same guy last year at Sun n Fun, and he actually remembered me as
soon as he saw me . . . ).
Nothng much has changed with Matthieu - it is all about tap dancing with
him. I left the presentation early and didn't bother getting into it with
him again. I feel we are lucky to have the update package for the XL and
really can't expect much more from that direction.
The FAA guy did a lot to make me feel more confident in the engineering
behind the update package. He told me the FAA engineers (the same guys who
review designs for part 23 airplane engineering) went over the XL very
carefully. They spent thousands of man-hours on this effort. It included
the design before the update and a review of the design after inclusion of
the update package that was engineered by Zenair. At least this guy thinks
the updated design is sound.
I expressed concern that we never really learned the cause for the structure
failures. He told me I was wrong about that and that the problem was well
documented In the 80 page report they made public last year. His comment
was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds (for the European
ultralight market) gross weight but the operating weight was 1320. For him
(and maybe for me now) this explained not only the design issue behind the
failures but is also consistent with the location of the actual failures on
the wing spars. He was unsure if the wing failure caused flutter or the
flutter caused the wing failures, but he feels the update properly
addresses this issue since it strengthens the wings and balances the
ailerons.
I am currently in the middle of installing the update package on my xl and
plan to enter phase I testing in a month or two. After this conversation I
am now more confident that I will actually put the plane into normal
service at completion of phase I testing.
Paul
Posted from OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
thanks for the post..
for us that have not been to Oshkosh
any other interesting zenith updates
Oshkosh new things or deals you found?
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306525#306525
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
Steve
At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
>... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
>(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
>weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
>only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent
>with the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was
>unsure if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the
>wing failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this
>issue since it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
That was my reaction, Steve. Evidently, there must have been very little
reserve for error. :)
On Wednesday 28 July 2010 09:18:58 you wrote:
>
> Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
>
> Steve
>
> At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
> >... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
> >(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
> >weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
> >only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent
> >with the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was
> >unsure if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the
> >wing failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this
> >issue since it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> www.ilrt66.com
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
No, it was flutter! Somebody proved it, somewhere, on the Internet. That is
why the FAA approved fix has balance arms for the ailerons. ;-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R.
Look
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
-->
Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
Steve
At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
>... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
>(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
>weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
>only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent with
>the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was unsure
>if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the wing
>failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this issue since
>it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I'm trying to recall how many of the unexplained crashes involved solo
flights. Florida, Utah, others? Was the Yuba City, CA crash the only one
with two people aboard?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R.
Look
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
-->
Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
Steve
At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
>... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
>(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
>weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
>only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent with
>the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was unsure
>if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the wing
>failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this issue since
>it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
To answer my own question: no, the Oakdale, CA crash (LAX06LA105) also had
two aboard.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
-->
I'm trying to recall how many of the unexplained crashes involved solo
flights. Florida, Utah, others? Was the Yuba City, CA crash the only one
with two people aboard?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R.
Look
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
-->
Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
Steve
At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
>... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
>(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
>weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
>only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent with
>the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was unsure
>if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the wing
>failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this issue since
>it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
The Arkansas accident was a solo flight if I remember right. Also, I
think the Florida accident was a solo one.
In a message dated 7/28/2010 9:52:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
No, it was flutter! Somebody proved it, somewhere, on the Internet. That is
why the FAA approved fix has balance arms for the ailerons. ;-)
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R.
Look
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look"
-->
Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
Steve
At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
>... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
>(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
>weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
>only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent with
>the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was unsure
>if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the wing
>failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this issue since
>it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim bonding |
| From: | "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
You guys continue to be a great source of information. Thanks!
I just returned from Airventure. The wet conditions forced many campers to parking
lots at the shopping center. Also Aircraft were stopped from flying in as
there was no dry place to put them. We got there just in time to get one of the
last camping spots on Sunday. Conditions were improved somewhat when we left
today.
I saw only two 601's there and took a long look at both of them. naturally there
was a zillion RV's. Beautiful aircraft they are.
I got some hands on training at the gas welding workshop and I feel that with a
little practice I can make aircraft non structural parts.
Cheers, Chuck CH 650.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306631#306631
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I don't want to argue over the issue of the final value of the upgrade
design. I feel good about it, but I think each owner and flyer needs to
make up his own mind about design related risks with the XL.
That said, I do want to make one comment about the nature of the whole mess
and how the marginal design concept fits the known facts. Perhaps the most
difficult part of this whole mess for me to understand has been the number
of accidents exerienced. It has always been small compared to the number of
planes flying but too big to ignore. This is exactly the result I would
expect from a design that was good but not quite good enough. If there were
a realy large problem with the design the the number of accidents would be
much greater.
The part of this I really like most is the new idea I got that there was
extensive review of the design details from FAA engineers who are quite
competent to do this review. The fact they did a similar review of the
completed design after the upgrade is also comforting.
One detail I forget to mention in my report is that the FAA guys felt the XL
design failed to meet ASTM requirements before the upgrade and does meet
them after the upgrade.
Paul
from OSH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
That was my reaction, Steve. Evidently, there must have been very little
reserve for error. :)
On Wednesday 28 July 2010 09:18:58 you wrote:
>
> Really? A design difference for 120 pounds causes the failures?
>
> Steve
>
> At 05:39 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote:
> >... His comment was that the wing was designed for only 1200 pounds
> >(for the European ultralight market) gross weight but the operating
> >weight was 1320. For him (and maybe for me now) this explained not
> >only the design issue behind the failures but is also consistent
> >with the location of the actual failures on the wing spars. He was
> >unsure if the wing failure caused flutter or the flutter caused the
> >wing failures, but he feels the update properly addresses this
> >issue since it strengthens the wings and balances the ailerons.
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> www.ilrt66.com
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
CH sold us kits and plans for a +/- 6 G (ultimate) 1320 lb gross weight 160 MPH
VNE vehicle.
The FAA would not be putting the number 1200 out there without either an admission
from CH or solid engineering.
The fact that we have an airframe that was sold to us as a 'better than utility'
category 1320 pound 160 MPH aircraft that is, in reality, a 1200 pound normal
category 138 MPH aircraft is something we have to live with or modify.
We should be thankful to the FAA that we are still around to live with it.
Although 120 pounds does not sound like much. When people fly into storms, near
mountains, or over cliffs with their wings light (fuel low) OR load the craft
beyond aft CG, bad things will happen. It is not the number of people as much
as it the gross weight and where the weight is located within the airframe.
The crashes seem to prove that an aft CG loaded 1250 pound XL punishes its
main spar just as bad as a center CG loaded 1440 pound XL.
I am heading up to Air Venture in the morning for lunch with my favorite FAA type.
I am so proud they have finally come up with or extracted from CH, a set
of de-rating numbers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306698#306698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
There is a big difference between saying "some guy" from the FAA says
something and saying that the FAA says something.
When I can get a reference to a specific finding in writing issued by
the FAA, I'll be less skeptical.
All of the supposition posted here without any basis in established
fact does nothing but hurt Zenith and us, the owners/builders.
Steve
At 12:54 PM 7/29/2010, you wrote:
>
>CH sold us kits and plans for a +/- 6 G (ultimate) 1320 lb gross
>weight 160 MPH VNE vehicle.
>The FAA would not be putting the number 1200 out there without
>either an admission from CH or solid engineering.
>The fact that we have an airframe that was sold to us as a 'better
>than utility' category 1320 pound 160 MPH aircraft that is, in
>reality, a 1200 pound normal category 138 MPH aircraft is something
>we have to live with or modify.
>We should be thankful to the FAA that we are still around to live with it.
>Although 120 pounds does not sound like much. When people fly into
>storms, near mountains, or over cliffs with their wings light (fuel
>low) OR load the craft beyond aft CG, bad things will happen. It
>is not the number of people as much as it the gross weight and where
>the weight is located within the airframe. The crashes seem to
>prove that an aft CG loaded 1250 pound XL punishes its main spar
>just as bad as a center CG loaded 1440 pound XL.
>I am heading up to Air Venture in the morning for lunch with my
>favorite FAA type. I am so proud they have finally come up with or
>extracted from CH, a set of de-rating numbers.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | roger lambert <n601ap(at)gmail.com> |
Sabrina:
Do us two favors:
1. When you talk to your FAA type, get a name and advise him that you're
going to publish his statement. Then give us his name and report on what he
says.
2. Some time in the future, when you have a degree in aeronautical
engineering, and maybe have become a professional engineer- review the CH
plans and give us a report with your signature on it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
That's why I am heading to Oshkosh on Friday...
We have been pushing CH for de-rate numbers for a long time.
CH, in public or in writing, had always maintained that the kit or plans, as sold,
met 160VNE, +/-6U and 1320--that the upgrade is just a beef up.
I don't think there is a soul in the FAA or NTSB who believes those numbers now.
I don't see how de-rate numbers would hurt the builders. They could elect to
de-rate or upgrade. The numbers being tossed around are in the ball park and
consistent with all the evidence.
Steve, do you believe the kit, factory XL or plans without the modification can
support more than 1200 pounds? Faster than 138? Utility category?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306714#306714
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
The 1200 number was floating out there well before Paul posted it...
And, as you well know, my FAA types at Oshkosh are not the engineers but rather
the lawyers, PR types and brass who are trying to keep me alive through all this.
I count them as my friends and mentors.
www.tc.faa.gov/oshkosh Click "Sabrina"
I have been invited to Edwards Air Force Base in two weeks time to talk to some
engineers about our issue and check out some of their work as well...
Between the Friday meeting, the Edwards meeting and a follow up meeting in Burlington,
I should have enough information to determine if I will remove my struts
and de-rate or install fairings on my struts. They were designed to be removed
or reinstalled in a minute's time.
CH is the one who should be putting his signature on documents, like a 10 percent
refund check on my kit since he only delivered 90% of the gross weight he sold
to me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306715#306715
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
What you and some others are asking us all to believe, is that CH is
a criminal and a maniac as he would allow family and others fly in
these aircraft knowing they are unsafe.
I have seen all the testing results which, near as I can tell, have
proved nothing to indicate the design unsafe.
I have seen "fixes" mandated that have no proof of being required.
I have seen the value of my airplane diminished.
What I haven't seen is the slightest shred of credible evidence to
back these claims against Zenith.
I believe the airplane is safe. Beyond that, I am not an aero
engineer so I can not intelligently answer your questions. I could
make up something but then I might sound like an FAA lawyer or an
AOPA columnist.
Steve
At 03:37 PM 7/29/2010, you wrote:
>
>Steve, do you believe the kit, factory XL or plans without the
>modification can support more than 1200 pounds? Faster than
>138? Utility category?
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Check out page 3, paragraph 1 of this document:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/Zodiac.pdf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306730#306730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Perry" <sperry50(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I too find it hard to believe that Chris would intentionally make false
claims about his airplane designs, even though I have never personally met
him. I have met Roger and the guys at the Mexico site and they all seem to
be "authentic" and no signs of being shysters. Hell, Roger crawled his ass
in the factory demonstrator for hour after hour. Do you really think he
would have done that if he felt there were problems not being disclosed?
If you buy a Mercedes and don't do the maintenance, you will eventually be
left on the side of the road. The only problem is it is a lot more dramatic
when an airplane does it. I feel comfortable with the "upgrades" and as far
as I plan to stress the airplane I feel it will do what I want. If I had
wanted a higher performance plane I would have opted for an RV and the extra
work and expense and sure as hell wish some of you guys would do the same
thing. I really get tired of reading all the attacks when all you had to do
was sell your stuff (yes, at a loss due to your bellyaching) and move on to
another design. I might buy the farm but again I can't believe Roger and the
other Mexico guys would have flown all those demonstrator hours with a plane
that was "defective"
That's just my opinion after reading hundreds of emails and my opinion is
just like my mom used to say - "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one
and most of them stink". Flame away if you like but I really don't give a
fat rats ass:-) Happy flying to you all, no matter what you are flying.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 6:39 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Check out page 3, paragraph 1 of this document:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/Zodiac.pdf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306730#306730
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Roger did not fly the factory demo once the FAA issued their finding. I bet CH
and Roger were just as surprised with the FAA findings as we were.
That said, Roger getting into an airplane with me, that we both believed was safe
at 1320, is no great feat. Hundreds of people reading this list did the same
thing.
Engineers make mistakes, great engineers own up to their mistakes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306736#306736
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Sabrina,
Skip has a great point -- about you.
Karl
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:30 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> Roger did not fly the factory demo once the FAA issued their finding. I
> bet CH and Roger were just as surprised with the FAA findings as we were.
>
> That said, Roger getting into an airplane with me, that we both believed
> was safe at 1320, is no great feat. Hundreds of people reading this list
> did the same thing.
>
> Engineers make mistakes, great engineers own up to their mistakes.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306736#306736
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Karl, I would like to agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306743#306743
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
"Sabrina, Skip has a great point... Karl"
Dear Mr. Polifka,
Sorry to offend you. Thank you for serving our country so well. Did you ever
get to the bottom of the Agent Orange fiasco in Laos?
Sabrina
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306744#306744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Sabrina,
What "Agent Orange fiasco in Laos" was that?
Karl
Raven45
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:50 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> "Sabrina, Skip has a great point... Karl"
>
> Dear Mr. Polifka,
>
> Sorry to offend you. Thank you for serving our country so well. Did
> you ever get to the bottom of the Agent Orange fiasco in Laos?
>
> Sabrina
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306744#306744
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
20 Alternate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306749#306749
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
well I am glad I did not spend my $4000 going to Oshkosh, if all we can talk about
is the 1200vs 1320 limits please..
tell me something else was worth the trip???
What happened at the BBQ?
did Dynon have any specials?
is there going to be a 650C model???
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306789#306789
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
As was going to remain silent on any more of this but I have to
comment on this statement.
Nothing has been proved to show that CH has made any mistake. You
pointed me to a link in the FAA report to read so I went back to it again.
"FAA analysis estimated that the wing design loads were 20 to 25
percent too low"
Maybe I'm reading this too literally, but to me, engineering is a
pretty exact thing. I take this much of this type of stuff and then
apply this much force to it and it breaks or it doesn't.
When critiquing someone else's work, with livelihoods and reputations
in the balance, it don't expect to see the word "estimate" anywhere.
I'm sure Chris & company were surprised at the FAA finding. To my
knowledge, he still doesn't agree with them.
Steve
At 06:30 PM 7/29/2010, you wrote:
>
>Engineers make mistakes, great engineers own up to their mistakes.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1 |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
After installing the additional "aileron control stop" I find my stick can now
only travel approximately 1/2" for aileron control. Is this what others have found
or will I need to cut a great deal of material from the edges of the 50 mm
slot?
Have not connected the aileron cables yet... just curious. Hardly seems like enough
travel!
Caleb tells me amount is different for everybody...depends on the installation...?
Thanks for feedback,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306808#306808
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Floyd Wilkes" <fwilkes(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1 |
Mike,
You will need to enlarge the slot.
Here is what I did. After the ailerons are rigged, I put the stop in place
but did not fasten it down. Push the stick to get the aileron to one stop
on the wing at the aileron. The new control stop will slide over as the
stick moves. Measure how far it slid then make the slot that much wider.
Repeat for other side.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1
After installing the additional "aileron control stop" I find my stick can
now only travel approximately 1/2" for aileron control. Is this what others
have found or will I need to cut a great deal of material from the edges of
the 50 mm slot?
Have not connected the aileron cables yet... just curious. Hardly seems like
enough travel!
Caleb tells me amount is different for everybody...depends on the
installation...?
Thanks for feedback,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306808#306808
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I think the legal profession has seen to it that owning up to mistakes
is no longer a viable option for an engineer,
whether great or not. Nor for any other professional for that matter.
If you really believe that CH thinks there is/was a problem with XL,
then look no farther than your own parents' profession as the reason for
his denial. He may or may not have made a mistake, but he certainly
isn't that stupid. Even if he were willing to except personal
destruction, he would also be sacrificing the jobs of his sons, everyone
who works for a related company, and would no longer be able to support
his current customers. Perhaps you think all that damage would be
justified. I think that sort of damage is one reason this country is
falling to pieces.
You clearly have the ability to be a great engineer. The greater the
engineer, the greater consequences of a mistake. I guess any you make
are likely to be duesies. Would you take all your family and friends
down with you?
Ron
On 07/29/2010 07:30 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> Engineers make mistakes, great engineers own up to their mistakes.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306736#306736
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1 |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)AOL.com> |
Thanks Floyd, however, I have riveted in the piece with the slot so I will need
to climb up through the access hole and cut away the material.
Appreciate your feedback. How much did you need to open up the 50mm slot?
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306828#306828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
to save even one life, yes....
not fairing the struts was a mistake...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306829#306829
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
There is a fix, whether needed or not. It's not about saving lives,
it's about satisfying your curiosity and ego.
As far as saving lives: As an exercise, dress in some crappy cloths and
try to get medical care with no money and no insurance. Now pretend you
are pregnant. There are more ways to die than in plane crashes and
poverty has killed untold numbers through history. Putting people out
of work has real and deadly consequences. And make no mistake. If CH
cried mea culpa there where be nothing left any of the Zenith companies
long before the law suites ended.
I'm not making excuses for anyone here. If there is a safety problem
with a plane it should be fixed. But lawyers may well hinder the
process more than help. I'm also not knocking lawyers in general, but
there are enough confluences of bad lawyers, but judges, bad juries and
bad laws to do great damage.
Grow up. Get an education. Do the great things of which you seem to be
capable. Lose the ego and since of entitlement.
Ron
On 07/30/2010 01:58 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
>
> to save even one life, yes....
>
> not fairing the struts was a mistake...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306829#306829
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Ron,
I seem to be missing some posts. What is this business about "fairing
struts"?
Karl
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ron Steele" <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> There is a fix, whether needed or not. It's not about saving lives, it's
> about satisfying your curiosity and ego.
> As far as saving lives: As an exercise, dress in some crappy cloths and
> try to get medical care with no money and no insurance. Now pretend you
> are pregnant. There are more ways to die than in plane crashes and
> poverty has killed untold numbers through history. Putting people out of
> work has real and deadly consequences. And make no mistake. If CH cried
> mea culpa there where be nothing left any of the Zenith companies long
> before the law suites ended.
>
> I'm not making excuses for anyone here. If there is a safety problem with
> a plane it should be fixed. But lawyers may well hinder the process more
> than help. I'm also not knocking lawyers in general, but there are enough
> confluences of bad lawyers, but judges, bad juries and bad laws to do
> great damage.
>
> Grow up. Get an education. Do the great things of which you seem to be
> capable. Lose the ego and since of entitlement.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On 07/30/2010 01:58 PM, Sabrina wrote:
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
>>
>> to save even one life, yes....
>>
>> not fairing the struts was a mistake...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306829#306829
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
The fairer the struts, the better!
What little I saw of the design scared the bejesus out of me, but I'm no
AE and she apparently had them vetted by one, so that's it as far as I'm
concerned. Now it would be really interesting to get CH's unvarnished
opinion on those changes. He certainly didn't hold back in his opinion
on the LAA stuff.
Ron
On 07/30/2010 04:17 PM, Karl Polifka wrote:
>
>
> Ron,
>
> I seem to be missing some posts. What is this business about "fairing
> struts"?
>
> Karl
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Ron Steele" <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 3:18 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
>>
>> There is a fix, whether needed or not. It's not about saving lives,
>> it's about satisfying your curiosity and ego.
>> As far as saving lives: As an exercise, dress in some crappy cloths
>> and try to get medical care with no money and no insurance. Now
>> pretend you are pregnant. There are more ways to die than in plane
>> crashes and poverty has killed untold numbers through history.
>> Putting people out of work has real and deadly consequences. And
>> make no mistake. If CH cried mea culpa there where be nothing left
>> any of the Zenith companies long before the law suites ended.
>>
>> I'm not making excuses for anyone here. If there is a safety problem
>> with a plane it should be fixed. But lawyers may well hinder the
>> process more than help. I'm also not knocking lawyers in general,
>> but there are enough confluences of bad lawyers, but judges, bad
>> juries and bad laws to do great damage.
>>
>> Grow up. Get an education. Do the great things of which you seem to
>> be capable. Lose the ego and since of entitlement.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/30/2010 01:58 PM, Sabrina wrote:
>>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
>>>
>>> to save even one life, yes....
>>>
>>> not fairing the struts was a mistake...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306829#306829
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Installing EGT probes on Jab 3300 |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
Page 24 of the Installation Manual for the Jab 3300, last sentence says "Exhaust
Gas Temps. - Nominal 1202 F - 1382 F, measured 100mm from the exhaust manifold
flange."
Is that 100mm measured 1. "on the side of the pipe" 2. "on the outside curve
of the pipe" 3. "on the inside curve of the pipe" ? ...or does it matter?
Or should I just be consistent from pipe to pipe?
Thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306854#306854
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
Does anyone have info on the 601 XL down in the north west.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/24441223/detail.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Ron, If that scares you, wait until I unveil my jet powered, blended wing flying
motorcycle! :O)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306860#306860
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Floyd Wilkes" <fwilkes(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1 |
Mike,
I bet with your new found rivet removal skill, you can remove the rivets in
short time.
I would think it difficult to expand the slot while riveted in place but
maybe you have a plan.
On mine, the left and right extensions were different. One was about 30 MM.
I made the stops on the wing so that the aileron would travel about .5
degree more than the new stop allows to ensure you cannot put too much
pressure on the cable.
Good luck
Floyd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrade Question: ref. 6-ZU-4-1
Thanks Floyd, however, I have riveted in the piece with the slot so I will
need to climb up through the access hole and cut away the material.
Appreciate your feedback. How much did you need to open up the 50mm slot?
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306828#306828
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Installing EGT probes on Jab 3300 |
| From: | "lwhitlow" <larrywhitlow1(at)comcast.net> |
I went for the same location on each pipe I tried to measure 100 mm on the side
of the curve and then drew a band at that location. I then put the EGT probes
to the inside of the curve as best I could.
Larry
601XL B Will fly sometime in my lifetime.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306873#306873
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Hodges" <n601mh(at)hodges.info> |
Some additional info, sorry should have cross posted this earlier
Article with photo is here:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/99574344.html
My prayers and condolences to the pilot and his family.
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
--------
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306877#306877
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Hi Ron,
As a retired engineer I must side with Sabrina on this point.
It really is true that even the best engineers make mistakes. They are
humans and that is the nature of being human. The lawyers don't circle
simply because a human is human. They get active when they feel someone has
taken the wrong path in this kind of situation like CH is alleged to have
taken - try to talk your way out of the problem rather than acknowledging
the facts and working to fix a known problem.
I don't think that is what Sabrina has actually said. I got the message
from her posts that she thinks he doesn't feel there was a mistake and
honestly says that. He is simply wrong about that according to the
published FAA documents. The only legitimate conclusion we can reach from
all that is that CH and the FAA disagree.
None of these things would generate a successful lawsuit in my opinion. The
only real liability here would be the people who were actually injured could
try to claim it was CH's negligence that caused their loss. That would be
difficult to collect on even if it was completely true. We are talking
about experimental airplanes here and we all signed waivers of liability in
order to buy the plans.
I think it would be better if CH and all his sons made it very clear that
there really was a problem and the design change that they endorsed and
released to all owners fixes the problem. That would clear it all up for
all the owners and they would understand that their best choice was to
actually install the upgrade.
Paul
Currently installing the upgrade with the belief it will make my plane safe.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Steele
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I think the legal profession has seen to it that owning up to mistakes
is no longer a viable option for an engineer,
whether great or not. Nor for any other professional for that matter.
If you really believe that CH thinks there is/was a problem with XL,
then look no farther than your own parents' profession as the reason for
his denial. He may or may not have made a mistake, but he certainly
isn't that stupid. Even if he were willing to except personal
destruction, he would also be sacrificing the jobs of his sons, everyone
who works for a related company, and would no longer be able to support
his current customers. Perhaps you think all that damage would be
justified. I think that sort of damage is one reason this country is
falling to pieces.
You clearly have the ability to be a great engineer. The greater the
engineer, the greater consequences of a mistake. I guess any you make
are likely to be duesies. Would you take all your family and friends
down with you?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Paul,
You live in some parallel universe.
It is frequently not the expectation that a lawsuit be successful, it is
merely the intent to destroy the defendant in the process. The plaintiff in
such a process cannot conceive of any responsibility on their part. It is
always someone else's fault. This has become a huge national problem,
merely manifested in this very small situation.
Most of us think there is little if anything wrong with the 601 design.
Whatever (questionable) ills there were have certainly been fixed by this
modification . Yet, somehow you and a few others refuse pilot and
maintenance error causes and blame the designer for problems affecting
1/100% of the 601 population. Cut the stats down to normal pilot error
ratios and you have a very tiny percentage that might, conceivably be a
design shortcoming -- which is very unlikely. Of course, it is certainly
possible that CH never computed the idiot factor into his design process.
Yes, that may be a flaw. The rest of us well understand the shortcomings of
engineers in facing the real world. You would like to think that you do,
but you don't.
It would appear that your aim is to destroy Zenith Aircraft. Why not just
come out and say do. The rest of us are tired of the pontificating -- from
retired engineers and teenagers. Let's move on to the process of building
and maintaining this airplane. If you cannot do that, shut up.
Karl
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> As a retired engineer I must side with Sabrina on this point.
>
> It really is true that even the best engineers make mistakes. They are
> humans and that is the nature of being human. The lawyers don't circle
> simply because a human is human. They get active when they feel someone
> has
> taken the wrong path in this kind of situation like CH is alleged to have
> taken - try to talk your way out of the problem rather than acknowledging
> the facts and working to fix a known problem.
>
> I don't think that is what Sabrina has actually said. I got the message
> from her posts that she thinks he doesn't feel there was a mistake and
> honestly says that. He is simply wrong about that according to the
> published FAA documents. The only legitimate conclusion we can reach from
> all that is that CH and the FAA disagree.
>
> None of these things would generate a successful lawsuit in my opinion.
> The
> only real liability here would be the people who were actually injured
> could
> try to claim it was CH's negligence that caused their loss. That would
> be
> difficult to collect on even if it was completely true. We are talking
> about experimental airplanes here and we all signed waivers of liability
> in
> order to buy the plans.
>
> I think it would be better if CH and all his sons made it very clear that
> there really was a problem and the design change that they endorsed and
> released to all owners fixes the problem. That would clear it all up for
> all the owners and they would understand that their best choice was to
> actually install the upgrade.
>
> Paul
> Currently installing the upgrade with the belief it will make my plane
> safe.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Steele
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:35 AM
> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
>
> I think the legal profession has seen to it that owning up to mistakes
> is no longer a viable option for an engineer,
> whether great or not. Nor for any other professional for that matter.
> If you really believe that CH thinks there is/was a problem with XL,
> then look no farther than your own parents' profession as the reason for
> his denial. He may or may not have made a mistake, but he certainly
> isn't that stupid. Even if he were willing to except personal
> destruction, he would also be sacrificing the jobs of his sons, everyone
> who works for a related company, and would no longer be able to support
> his current customers. Perhaps you think all that damage would be
> justified. I think that sort of damage is one reason this country is
> falling to pieces.
>
> You clearly have the ability to be a great engineer. The greater the
> engineer, the greater consequences of a mistake. I guess any you make
> are likely to be duesies. Would you take all your family and friends
> down with you?
>
> Ron
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Installing EGT probes on Jab 3300 |
Mike,
I have asked this question too and didn't get a straight answer.
For my installation, I measured from the flange to where the bayonet entered
the exhaust pipe. It makes sense to me that being consistent from pipe to
pipe is required. I'm seeing EGTs in the range 1350 to 1400 pretty much as
USJabiru indicates in their installation video. I have 11 hours on my
engine. I am current trying to get the CHTs down with interior baffles in
the air plenums.
Jeff Davidson
CH601-HD 3300A (Solid Lifters)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Polifka" <jfowler120(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
oops, make that 1%.
Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Hi Karl,
I agree with much of what you wrote, but a couple of your clearly stupid and
unjustified statements force me to respond.
Indeed I don't care one hoot about the future of Zenith. It's fine with me
if they continue to do business. I just don't think we are ever going to
get anything useful on the XL question from them in the future.
I find your personal criticism offensive. You pretend to read my mind and
then complain about the thoughts you had rather than ones I actually had and
expressed. That is just plain childish bullshit on your part.
For me it important to clear up the distinction between a fix that might or
might not address the actual problem that clearly existed, in my opinion,
that led to the accidents. Your notion that it was all pilot error and
loose cables is clearly not true. If it were you must account for the
reality that only Zodiac XLs had structure failures in a field where there
are many similar planes with similar pilots and cables that didn't have any
similar accidents.
Before I correctly understood the FAA ruling I didn't believe there was a
smoking gun to explain the accidents. After my recent conversations and
rereading the FAA publication I believe there was indeed a real problem that
was identified by engineering review at the FAA. That allows me to believe
the actual problem was fixed rather than the design was beefed up in the
hope the unknown problem would go away.
I know we all had to place a great deal of faith in CH and Zenith/Zenair
when we decided to build our planes. I think the vicious namecalling that
is taking place on this list is really a measure of how each of us reacts
when faced with the idea our faith was wrongly placed. Some of us change
our opinions faced with new facts. Others just attack the messenger so they
can continue to believe their previous ideas. Once again this is all normal
human nature.
I hope we all install the upgrade and enjoy our wonderful planes. If we
have different reasons for doing that it is not a problem. If some refuse
to believe the update is necessary in the face of overwhelming proof and
then kill themselves in unmodified planes that will cause a measure of
damage to us all.
Respectfully,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Polifka
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Paul,
You live in some parallel universe.
It is frequently not the expectation that a lawsuit be successful, it is
merely the intent to destroy the defendant in the process. The plaintiff in
such a process cannot conceive of any responsibility on their part. It is
always someone else's fault. This has become a huge national problem,
merely manifested in this very small situation.
Most of us think there is little if anything wrong with the 601 design.
Whatever (questionable) ills there were have certainly been fixed by this
modification . Yet, somehow you and a few others refuse pilot and
maintenance error causes and blame the designer for problems affecting
1/100% of the 601 population. Cut the stats down to normal pilot error
ratios and you have a very tiny percentage that might, conceivably be a
design shortcoming -- which is very unlikely. Of course, it is certainly
possible that CH never computed the idiot factor into his design process.
Yes, that may be a flaw. The rest of us well understand the shortcomings of
engineers in facing the real world. You would like to think that you do,
but you don't.
It would appear that your aim is to destroy Zenith Aircraft. Why not just
come out and say do. The rest of us are tired of the pontificating -- from
retired engineers and teenagers. Let's move on to the process of building
and maintaining this airplane. If you cannot do that, shut up.
Karl
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> As a retired engineer I must side with Sabrina on this point.
>
> It really is true that even the best engineers make mistakes. They are
> humans and that is the nature of being human. The lawyers don't circle
> simply because a human is human. They get active when they feel someone
> has
> taken the wrong path in this kind of situation like CH is alleged to have
> taken - try to talk your way out of the problem rather than acknowledging
> the facts and working to fix a known problem.
>
> I don't think that is what Sabrina has actually said. I got the message
> from her posts that she thinks he doesn't feel there was a mistake and
> honestly says that. He is simply wrong about that according to the
> published FAA documents. The only legitimate conclusion we can reach from
> all that is that CH and the FAA disagree.
>
> None of these things would generate a successful lawsuit in my opinion.
> The
> only real liability here would be the people who were actually injured
> could
> try to claim it was CH's negligence that caused their loss. That would
> be
> difficult to collect on even if it was completely true. We are talking
> about experimental airplanes here and we all signed waivers of liability
> in
> order to buy the plans.
>
> I think it would be better if CH and all his sons made it very clear that
> there really was a problem and the design change that they endorsed and
> released to all owners fixes the problem. That would clear it all up for
> all the owners and they would understand that their best choice was to
> actually install the upgrade.
>
> Paul
> Currently installing the upgrade with the belief it will make my plane
> safe.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Steele
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:35 AM
> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
>
> I think the legal profession has seen to it that owning up to mistakes
> is no longer a viable option for an engineer,
> whether great or not. Nor for any other professional for that matter.
> If you really believe that CH thinks there is/was a problem with XL,
> then look no farther than your own parents' profession as the reason for
> his denial. He may or may not have made a mistake, but he certainly
> isn't that stupid. Even if he were willing to except personal
> destruction, he would also be sacrificing the jobs of his sons, everyone
> who works for a related company, and would no longer be able to support
> his current customers. Perhaps you think all that damage would be
> justified. I think that sort of damage is one reason this country is
> falling to pieces.
>
> You clearly have the ability to be a great engineer. The greater the
> engineer, the greater consequences of a mistake. I guess any you make
> are likely to be duesies. Would you take all your family and friends
> down with you?
>
> Ron
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Installing EGT probes on Jab 3300 |
Arthur Krueger [bldrflyr(at)att.net] posted this on the Yahoo Jabiru engine
list on July 21st:
"I once made a couple of test flights with two EGT probes installed
simultaneously on the #2 cylinder exhaust pipe of my 3300 engine. One probe
was located 3" (about 75mm) from the head and the other was located 4"
(about 100mm) from the head. After correcting for individual probe error, I
found that the probe located closer to the head gave readings about 6
degrees F. (about 3 degrees C.) higher than the probe further away. Not
exactly what you are looking for but maybe it'll help.
Art................Sonex N6UZ taildragger (#0095)..................Jab3300
(#261)/AeroCarb"
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Installing EGT probes on Jab 3300
-->
Mike,
I have asked this question too and didn't get a straight answer.
For my installation, I measured from the flange to where the bayonet entered
the exhaust pipe. It makes sense to me that being consistent from pipe to
pipe is required. I'm seeing EGTs in the range 1350 to 1400 pretty much as
USJabiru indicates in their installation video. I have 11 hours on my
engine. I am current trying to get the CHTs down with interior baffles in
the air plenums.
Jeff Davidson
CH601-HD 3300A (Solid Lifters)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Iberplanes IGD - Alberto Martin <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> |
Apparently it is an HDS
2010/7/30
> Does anyone have info on the 601 XL down in the north west.
>
>
> http://www.kirotv.com/news/24441223/detail.html
>
>
> *
>
===========
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Un ingles a Tom Lucero en la guerra de Malvinas: "=A1Piloto argentino mejor
aqu=ED con nosotros en camilla. Muy peligroso arriba, en su avi=F3n!=97".
Un pasaje del libro "Dios y Los Halcones" del Com. Pablo M. Carballo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ella" <ella_rhodes(at)att.net> |
Have you posted any photos of your modification to the plane?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:57 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Oshkosh
>
> The 1200 number was floating out there well before Paul posted it...
>
> And, as you well know, my FAA types at Oshkosh are not the engineers but
> rather the lawyers, PR types and brass who are trying to keep me alive
> through all this. I count them as my friends and mentors.
>
> www.tc.faa.gov/oshkosh Click "Sabrina"
>
> I have been invited to Edwards Air Force Base in two weeks time to talk to
> some engineers about our issue and check out some of their work as well...
>
> Between the Friday meeting, the Edwards meeting and a follow up meeting in
> Burlington, I should have enough information to determine if I will remove
> my struts and de-rate or install fairings on my struts. They were
> designed to be removed or reinstalled in a minute's time.
>
> CH is the one who should be putting his signature on documents, like a 10
> percent refund check on my kit since he only delivered 90% of the gross
> weight he sold to me.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306715#306715
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Thank you.
Let's see if this list is capable of having a normal discussion among friends.
How many of you out there are still flying an XL at 1320 without any modifications?
How many of you would welcome a de-rate to 1200/N/140 if that meant you did not
have to modify your airplane?
Does anyone have a VNE listed on their XL plans other than 180 or 160?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306960#306960
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
I too attended the Oshkosh Zenith Forum - I didn't expect a "mea culpa" from the
Heintz clan inasmuch as their legal troubles are far from over. Personally,
I appreciate the fact that they just didn't walk away from the whole mess and
leave us holding the bag. This whole saga with the XL has been a nightmare for
them, both personally and professionally. At this point little can be gained
by pointing fingers... CH obviously did not set out to design an airplane with
a flaw that would kill people, but not being an engineer, I cannot challenge
him on his design. I also don't have faith in our FAA to always find the correct
answer. I have dealt with some FAA engineers that didn't seem to have a
clue. In the case of the Zodiac, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between
the Zenith and FAA positions.
I am not convinced that the crashes were due to a single factor and nothing I've
read or heard says otherwise. I think the modifications will produce an airplane
that we can be confident in. I appreciate Paul sharing with us what he
heard from the FAA guy... the more good news the better.
A few more things that came out of that forum that may be of interest.
1.) Zenith believes a lot of builders are not properly calibrating their airspeed
indicators with the result that when they slow to maneuvering speed in turbulence
they may actually be flying at a speed significantly greater. I don't
have to explain to anyone what this means.
2.) They gave their justification for the internal aileron stop - explaining there
were suspected instances where passengers had pushed against the stick when
getting out of the airplane and stretched the whole control system. They also
reported a case where failure to secure the stick in windy conditions had resulted
in damage that reduced the cable tension and actually damaged the rear
spar.
3.) Matieu mentioned that Zenith hired an experienced test pilot to take the modified
Zodiac up and "take it to the edge." Apparently there were no problems
and the pilot reported favorably on the flying characteristics of the airplane.
4.) Zodiac intends to have a modified Zodiac put through the same series of flutter
tests by the german engineers that did the original tests last year.
5.) Some pilots who have modified and are now flying their aircraft were asked
to comment on any differences they noted. Their only comment is that the airplane
seemed more stable and seemed to handle turbulence better.
6.) Matieu commented that the reason there has been no new information coming out
from Zenith on the XL is that there is nothing new to report. He seemed to
think this was a good thing - "no news is good news." I think the next chapter
is going to be written by those flying modified aircraft, not the Zenith company.
As for me, I had a great time at Sploshkosh and especially enjoyed the chance to
meet other builders face to face. Paul, I wish I had known you were at the
forum. It would have been nice to meet you finally.
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306988#306988
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Lanman" <blanman01(at)insightbb.com> |
The Pierce County Sheriff's Department says neighbors reported seeing it do
a barrel roll before going down in the area of 260th Street East and 150th
Avenue East.
Bill Lanman
Zodiac CH 650
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> |
Sabrina wrote:
> Check out page 3, paragraph 1 of this document:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/Zodiac.pdf
Sabrina,
I have had the experience of upgrading a Czech XL and must report it's not using
the thicker materials that my plans (dated August, 8, 2005) indicate. The page
you cite has the Czech Republic airplane as support for the FAA's conclusion.
The problem there is Apples and Oranges are being used to present conclusions
representative of the other product.
The European airplanes are using lighter thickness materials and are designed to
a different standard GW.
The upgrade of the Czech airplane discovered .040" was used for the 6-B-13-1 Wing
Attachment Uprights. My plans require .063 for the same part and the upgrade
makes the forward parts .125" now. I replace the .040" in the Czech airplane
with .063" for the rear parts.
That is just one area, there are more, that this Czech airplane varies from the
plans I have.
Just thought you would want to know this.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307017#307017
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Thank you Ron. It is great to have the list back to normal.
Have you find any difference in material thickness in the main spar?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307018#307018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
The wing attach uprights in the US 601xl's also used .040 for the uprights
in the early versions. I have come across 2 so far and Zenith has supplied
me with the .063 uprights to replace them.
Another Czech 601 that I am doing now in my opinion is better built than
the US 601's. It has most of the upgrades in it already and a few more. The
one I am doing already has the aileron stop installed but is much better
that the light weight one zenith supplied and the floor/seat stiffeners were
installed.
Jeff
In a message dated 8/1/2010 1:04:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ron.lendon(at)gmail.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon"
Sabrina wrote:
> Check out page 3, paragraph 1 of this document:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/Zodiac.pdf
Sabrina,
I have had the experience of upgrading a Czech XL and must report it's not
using the thicker materials that my plans (dated August, 8, 2005)
indicate. The page you cite has the Czech Republic airplane as support for the
FAA's conclusion. The problem there is Apples and Oranges are being used to
present conclusions representative of the other product.
The European airplanes are using lighter thickness materials and are
designed to a different standard GW.
The upgrade of the Czech airplane discovered .040" was used for the
6-B-13-1 Wing Attachment Uprights. My plans require .063 for the same part and
the upgrade makes the forward parts .125" now. I replace the .040" in the
Czech airplane with .063" for the rear parts.
That is just one area, there are more, that this Czech airplane varies
from the plans I have.
Just thought you would want to know this.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307017#307017
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
Hello to all:
Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh happening.
Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up the
"List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you have told me
that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a place to talk about
and advertise my products. Some of you have expressed how much you enjoy
the chat room.
The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have been a
lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever miss; others
have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place to bring up thoughts
and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane. Over the past months many
suggested solutions to questions ask have been offered. It is also a great
place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type of situation, how your friends build is
progressing.
For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For the
last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat room, other
than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from your keyboard and
screen. For others this is also family vacation time of year.
I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
Is it time to abandon the chat room?
Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
private.
My direct email address is: George(at)MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
directly to me.
This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business, Monday
evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "alsmith" <alan.smith(at)nutreco.com> |
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air Venture.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offering
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Upgraded Kits for 601 HD and HDS |
I fell in love with the Zodiac 601 HD 20 years ago. I currently own a 601
HDS that I bought last year from the
builder. They are both great airplanes and they both seem to be still
available from Zenith. Perhaps they
are not fancy enough for today's market, but I wonder if it would be
worthwhile for Zenith to feature the
HD and HDS as their low wing models. If they were to feature upgraded kits
for the HD and HDS in the manner that they have
for the CH 750, I think that they would have a couple of solid, attractive
kits.
Regards,
Damien Graham
Watertown, NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "alsmith" <alan.smith(at)nutreco.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
>
> I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air
> Venture.
>
> Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
>
> No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
>
> It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an
> offering
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chat Room Comments |
The only problem I saw with the chat room was technical. It would periodically
log me out or drop me without warning. Others complained of the same thing.
I tried different operating systems and different configurations, thinking the
problem might be on my end. None of these attempts made any noticeable
difference.
That has been a factor in my recent absence from the chat room, but the biggie
has simply been that I've been busy. Your chat room reminders made the
difference between me visiting and not visiting the chat room. If I had time,
and got the reminder, I visited. Without a reminder, I'd forget it.
I think your chat room, while it may not attract the masses of individuals, is
a valuable addition to the Zenith community. Thanks for providing it this
long!
On Sunday 01 August 2010 07:32:31 you wrote:
> Hello to all:
>
>
>
> Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh
> happening.
>
>
>
> Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up the
> "List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you have told
> me that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a place to talk
> about and advertise my products. Some of you have expressed how much you
> enjoy the chat room.
>
>
>
> The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have been a
> lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever miss;
> others have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place to bring up
> thoughts and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane. Over the past
> months many suggested solutions to questions ask have been offered. It is
> also a great place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type of situation, how your
> friends build is progressing.
>
>
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For the
> last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat room, other
> than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from your keyboard
> and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of year.
>
>
>
> I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
>
>
>
> Is it time to abandon the chat room?
>
>
>
> Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
>
>
>
> Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
>
> My direct email address is: George(at)MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
> directly to me.
>
>
>
> This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business,
> Monday evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
>
>
>
> Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
>
> George
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
On the other hand, the Piper Sport seems to be going great guns. This is
obviously a close copy of the XL. I looked at one at OSH and saw that the
center console is an exact copy. There are a few notable differences like
the wing tips, but this is a very close cousin to the XL designed and built
by a company that, until recently, manufactured and sold XLs to the European
market.
I believe Piper has already shipped more of these planes than the Cessna
S-LSA (C-162?). I don't know of any problems with the Sport Cruiser from
CZAW which is (I believe) the same plane as the Piper Sport. My wild guess
is that the C-162 will fade away (they only have shipped about 6 of these
planes even though there are many hundreds of deposits) and the Piper Sport
will be wildly successful. The big attraction of the Cessna was the
Continental engine that the FBOs are already comfortable with and the Piper
uses the Rotax that is so popular with the remaining LSA fleet. That same
engine choice means approximately 100 pounds of extra empty weight in the
Cessna which is a whole lot for an LSA.
So, the general XL design lives on even though it may not have much future
at AMD or Zenith.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of alsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:47 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air
Venture.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offering
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
I don't attend the chat room but the reminders do not bother me at all.
I say carry on.
-- Craig
On Sunday 01 August 2010 07:32:31 you wrote:
> Hello to all:
>
>
>
> Hope many of you have had a great adventure to the annual Oshkosh
> happening.
>
>
>
> Some have flamed me, both publicly and privately, for cluttering up
> the "List" with my weekly Chat Room reminder messages. Some of you
> have told me that it really serves no purpose other than giving me a
> place to talk about and advertise my products. Some of you have
> expressed how much you enjoy the chat room.
>
>
>
> The chat room has been going on for over two years, and there have
> been a lot of collective users. Some are very regular and hardly ever
> miss; others have stopped by from time to time. It is a great place
> to bring up thoughts and ideas about building your Zenith Airplane.
> Over the past months many suggested solutions to questions ask have
> been offered. It is also a great place to find out, in a 1 on 1 type
> of situation, how your friends build is progressing.
>
>
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For
> the last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat
> room, other than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from
> your keyboard and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of
year.
>
>
>
> I guess it is time to ask some questions about the chat room operation.
>
>
>
> Is it time to abandon the chat room?
>
>
>
> Should the chat room continue but maybe at a different day and time?
>
>
>
> Is there a problem with the format of the chat room?
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
>
> My direct email address is: George(at)MrRace.Com if you wish to comment
> directly to me.
>
>
>
> This is also a reminder that the Chat Room will be open for business,
> Monday evening, August 2nd, and 8:00 Eastern Time.
>
>
>
> Hope to see many of you there and hear about your Oshkosh adventures!
>
> George
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
Semi-proficient Househusband
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Chat Room Comments |
George,
I would encourage you to continue sending out the messages inviting folks to
the chat room. I suspect the room changes address from time to time and
apparently the reminders get you more participants.
For those of us who are recovering computer geeks it is very simple to
automatically direct your reminders to the trash just like I do with some
other regular messages.
I have never been to the chat because I like email and expect there would be
many people at any chat who would love to flame me the whole time I was
there. I don't need that kind of grief.
Regards,
Paul
>
> For the last two weeks I have not sent out any Chat Room notices. For
> the last two weeks no one has shown up for the Monday evening chat
> room, other than me. I know that Oshkosh takes a lot of you away from
> your keyboard and screen. For others this is also family vacation time of
year.
>
>
>
>
> Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated, both publically and
> private.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Minor upgrade question |
On page 6-ZU-2 it shows the addition of two A5 rivets in the 6W4-4
uprights. It doesn't say anything about a spacer to fill the gap that
is at that location.
What have you other updater folks done there?
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Interesting, the AMD web site is down.
-----Original Message-----
From: alsmith <alan.smith(at)nutreco.com>
Sent: Sun, Aug 1, 2010 9:46 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I found it interesting that Zenith did not bring a 601 or 650 to Air Ventu
re.
Additionaly AMD did not display any factory built 650's.
No updates in the assenmbly manuals for the 650 have been published.
It is my belief that the low wing series will soon be dropped as an offeri
ng
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307035#307035
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
I listened in to some of the chatter after the Monday Zenith forum at Oshkosh.
I don't know which of the Heintz brothers said it but one of them commented that
"Interest in the Zodiac seems to be coming back so we may start selling them
again in the near future...." I suspect they took a step back to see what
public opinion would be. After all, why offer an airplane that no one wants to
buy? If the mods do the job I suspect that we will again see the 650 parked
next to the booth in Oshkosh. They have quite an investment in tooling and materials
that I'm sure they would like to benefit from.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307092#307092
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Floyd Gantt" <fgantt(at)texaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
TimThanks for your input as a builder reading this list I had become
concerned with all the negativity of the list this last week. I am about to
order the wing kit from Zenith and this should finish my650 B. I was hoping
to hear more reports from all who have completed the upgrade and were
flying their completed planes. I believe the more positive input we have
the more confident people will be in the completion and in new orders for
the 650 B. I believe the survival of the Zenith Aircraft Company is in the
best interest of all owners. Please those flying with the upgrades please
keep posting to the list all your informations as your knowledge and
information help us all.Thanks
----------------------------------------
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I listened in to some of the chatter after the Monday Zenith forum at
Oshkosh. I don't know which of the Heintz brothers said it but one of them
commented that "Interest in the Zodiac seems to be coming back so we may
start selling them again in the near future...." I suspect they took a
step back to see what public opinion would be. After all, why offer an
airplane that no one wants to buy? If the mods do the job I suspect that
we will again see the 650 parked next to the booth in Oshkosh. They have
quite an investment in tooling and materials that I'm sure they would like
to benefit from.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307092#307092
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> |
Sabrina wrote:
> Thank you Ron. It is great to have the list back to normal.
>
> Have you find any difference in material thickness in the main spar?
Sabrina,
The rest of the materials in both the main and center spar of the Czech airplane
were the same as my prints.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307101#307101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Minor upgrade question |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> |
Put a spacer in.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307102#307102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
I did the update and have the gross at 1320 with the original VNE
of 160 mph. Derating it to 1200 would not be practical as that would
make it a single person aircraft.
I believe it was effectively illegal to continue flying the
unmodified airframe although this may have been in a gray zone.
It is still my feeling that all this was unfortunately caused by
two documentation issues. Nowhere on my drawings did it say anything
about the tension on cables. Secondly, the 6G number should never be
published. "ultimate" G ratings have no meaning on in a pilots operation
manual and it should not be up the the builder to convert ultimate to
utility. This is not a 15% error but a 50% error and a operation type. A
6 G plane is the low end of aerobatics. I believe people were treating
the CH601 as an acrobatic airplane because of this number.
On 7/31/2010 12:30 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
>
> Thank you.
>
> Let's see if this list is capable of having a normal discussion among friends.
>
> How many of you out there are still flying an XL at 1320 without any modifications?
>
> How many of you would welcome a de-rate to 1200/N/140 if that meant you did not
have to modify your airplane?
>
> Does anyone have a VNE listed on their XL plans other than 180 or 160?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306960#306960
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chat Room Comments |
| From: | "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> |
I have attended the chat on many occasions, and it's a lot of fun.
To those who haven't tried it, you should. Every time is different.
It's a great opportunity to get to know fellow builders in "real time", as well
as ask and answer questions.
Nobody has ever been flamed that I have seen.
Thanks for doing this, George.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307137#307137
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
| From: | "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> |
Thank you bryanmartin!
You are my hero. :O)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307143#307143
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
DO NOT ENTER ANY PASSWORD, JUST YOUR USER NAME CHOICE
Check out my line of items for Experimental Airplane Builders
My Products: http://www.mykitairplane.com/Products/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | roger lambert <n601ap(at)gmail.com> |
Sabrina:
What did the FAA people(hopefully engineers this time) who were willing to
identify themselves have to say about the 601xl? Please give us their names
and statements.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues. |
Hope soon, Floyd.
Still working on the upgrade, now finishing the upgrade in the fuselage,
-the wings will be next...
Gary Gower601 XL -Jab 3300
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Floyd Gantt wrote:
From: Floyd Gantt <fgantt(at)texaviation.com>
Subject: re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 5:56 PM
TimThanks for your input as a builder reading this list I had become concer
ned with all the negativity of the list this last week. I am about to order
the wing kit from Zenith and this should finish my650 B. I was hoping to h
ear more reports from all who have completed the upgrade and were flying th
eir completed planes. I believe the more positive input we have the more co
nfident people will be in the completion and in new orders for the 650 B. I
believe the-survival-of the Zenith Aircraft Company is in the best int
erest of all owners. Please those flying with the upgrades please keep post
ing to the list all your informations as your knowledge and information hel
p us all.Thanks
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 4:28 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
I listened in to some of the chatter after the Monday Zenith forum at Oshko
sh. I don't know which of the Heintz brothers said it but one of them comm
ented that "Interest in the Zodiac seems to be coming back so we may start
selling them again in the near future...." I suspect they took a step back
to see what public opinion would be. After all, why offer an airplane tha
t no one wants to buy? If the mods do the job I suspect that we will again
see the 650 parked next to the booth in Oshkosh. They have quite an inves
tment in tooling and materials that I'm sure they would like to benefit fro
m.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307092#307092
========================0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Hello. I have a Zodiac 601 HDS. I had GSC 68 inch, 3 blade prop. Today
I switched to a 68 inch Sensenich prop.
It was a bit bumpy up there this afternoon, but at 5000 RPM, it seems
that I have picked up 15 mph with the
Sensenich prop. I will try to report more solid numbers later. The blade
is pitched to 3; (the pitch numbers go from 1 to 5)
When I did a static run-up, it was 4700/4800 rpm. When I got up to
altitude and leveled it out, the most RPM I could get was 5100.
The fellow who built my plane has a rubber stop about an inch long
between the panel and the throttle. I am trying to think this through.
My plan is to cut the rubber stop until I am able to reach either 5500
or 5800. This would give me more RPM at takeoff and allow me
to cruise faster if I want to.
Sound like a plan ??
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
Hi Damien,
Be careful with the throttle linkage for your engine. I got a leased plane
(Tecnam Echo Super) with the same engine (912ULS) and had nightmares for
months with faulty throttle linkage and friction lock mechanism. You need
to keep the dual carburetors synchronized, and the control from the cockpit
must allow for full control in both directions from idle to maximum power.
If you haven't been to the Rotax school, I strongly suggest you study all
the engine stuff around the carburetors very carefully before messing with
it. You might do best to get a chapter member with experience on this
engine to help you out. There are also great resources online, but you need
to be intimate with several different documents before doing anything on
this monstrosity of an engine.
Paul
XL with Jabiru doing upgrade
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:25 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sensenich Prop
Hello. I have a Zodiac 601 HDS. I had GSC 68 inch, 3 blade prop. Today I
switched to a 68 inch Sensenich prop.
It was a bit bumpy up there this afternoon, but at 5000 RPM, it seems that I
have picked up 15 mph with the
Sensenich prop. I will try to report more solid numbers later. The blade is
pitched to 3; (the pitch numbers go from 1 to 5)
When I did a static run-up, it was 4700/4800 rpm. When I got up to altitude
and leveled it out, the most RPM I could get was 5100.
The fellow who built my plane has a rubber stop about an inch long between
the panel and the throttle. I am trying to think this through.
My plan is to cut the rubber stop until I am able to reach either 5500 or
5800. This would give me more RPM at takeoff and allow me
to cruise faster if I want to.
Sound like a plan ??
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Backlog on upgrade kits? |
Anyone know if there is still a backlog on upgrade kits? Is anyone still
waiting for theirs?
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
Is anybody using the Harbor Freight #97857 air tool for pounding
solid rivets? It comes with a straight rivet set. I don't see bucking
bars though....
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
Hi Steve,
I've been using one of the Harbor Freight guns with a sharpened and smoothed
chisel to cut the heads off spar rivets. I drill the head first and then use
the power chisel to remove the remaining parts of the head. I have another
rivet gun with a pin installed to punch rivet stems out of the spars. This
one is a more expensive aircraft riveter with a 3x or 4x designation - a
much more powerful gun than the Harbor Freight one with a higher quality
trigger.
I opted for bolts (mostly AN4s) to hold the new spar parts together rather
than the large solid bucked rivets. I felt more confident in my skills to
employ standard aircraft bolts and nuts rather than learning how to buck
rivets on those huge ones that are extremely critical to the safety of the
plane.
Perhaps two years ago I would have worried about the impact a pound or two
of bolts might have on the cruise speed of my plane. Today I am more
concerned about having a safe plane than the last knot or two of speed.
Paul
XL installing upgrade
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen R.
Look
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:42 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List:
Is anybody using the Harbor Freight #97857 air tool for pounding
solid rivets? It comes with a straight rivet set. I don't see bucking
bars though....
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "annken100" <annken100(at)aol.com> |
Hi Steve,
That is exactly the tool I used to buck the rivets on my plane. It works good
and the straight 3/16 nose piece is all you need to set all the rivets in the
spar.
If you need any suggestions for rivet removal, feel free to checkout how I removed my rivets here: http://adonisweb.homeserver.com/AdonisWeb/Rivet.html or look for the article on this subject in the April 2010 issue of Sport Aviation.
Good luck,
Ken Pavlou
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307897#307897
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen R. Look" <slook(at)mchsi.com> |
Our local Harbor Freight didn't have one in stock. I got to looking
on line and found the 2602A at ATS on sale for $90. Had to get the
rivet sets separately for $22. With free shipping and no tax, it came
out nearly the same.
Steve
At 12:45 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>That is exactly the tool I used to buck the rivets on my plane. It
>works good and the straight 3/16 nose piece is all you need to set
>all the rivets in the spar.
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> |
I have that tool and a real 4x rivet gun. The real rivet gun gives me much more
control of the set of the rivet. I can pull the trigger a little bit and get
soft taps or pull the trigger all the way and get full hits. The HF model is
all on or all off as I recall.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307965#307965
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "annken100" <annken100(at)aol.com> |
Hi Ron,
We may not have the same 3X rivet gun from HF. The one I have has very good control.
The trigger is smooth and allows you to go from gentle taps to full power
very nicely. It's quite comparable to my real 2X aircraft rivet gun.
Ken Pavlou
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308007#308007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
I have the Harbor Freight tool and it hits harder than my "real" 3x gun and has
excellent control. 17$
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308018#308018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | 2011 the year of the Zenith |
Friends and fellow builders,
I started this discussion on the Zenith Aircraft builders and flyers blog.
Below is a copy of the post. I would appreciate it if I could get some input
from everyone on this subject. I would love to see the 2011 EAA Convention
in Oshkosh become the year of the Zenith!
------
Hope you all came home safely from Oshkosh! Another great year and once
again, there are no other kits on the field I would rather build than a
Zenith! Once again, by looking at the grass around the Zenith site in
Oshkosh, the grass won't be growing there for a while!
The Zenith tent had what I feel was an incredible turnout of walking traffic
all week!
With that said, I'm wondering where all the Zenith airplanes are during
Oshkosh? I have an idea I would like to share with the group and please take
the time to write a comment to this discussion so I can get an idea where I
should go from here.
I'm lucky enough to say I live just a few blocks from the Oshkosh airfield!
I plan to have my 601 XL on the field next year, and I have an idea that I
passed on to Sebastian - and he gave me his blessing.
I'm looking to see if there is enough interest among the builders to make
Oshkosh 2011 the year of the Zenith! Seeing that I live in Oshkosh, I know
almost everyone in management at the EAA, I work with the Oshkosh media, I
know where all the great eating and catering places are in Oshkosh, I would
like to volunteer to put a program together to make 2011 our year at EAA.
I can imagine many things, but I would like to get a discussion going to see
what you would like to see Zenith do in Oshkosh. It's easy to get a plot of
parking spaces similar to the RV parking near the homebuilt kit display. Is
there 25 or more aircraft we could count on to come to Oshkosh? If the
answer is yes, we can all park together on the field. I can set up group
accommodations at the university, or group camping on the field, or group
camping where we park the planes. Let's get Chris to Oshkosh and honor him
with the recognition he deserves. Would you like to build a kit on the
field? Group cookouts? Maybe a larger place to meet for dinner just for
2011? Any or all of the above things would be covered with major press
releases.
Not only would we all have a blast, but it would solidify the Zenith brand
and make the company stronger in the eyes of EAA members and the press.
So I guess to start the discussion, do you think we could get a minimum of
25 Zenith aircraft to attend Oshkosh 2011? We have 3 here already. Then
after the initial commitment, we can work on housing, etc.
So what do you think? Please give me your opinion.
Joe in Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2011 the year of the Zenith |
| From: | "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net> |
Sounds like a fun idea. If you have the pull then you might want to consider implementing
all your ideas, namely joint aircraft parking, a joint camping area
and a block of rooms at the college for those who prefer not to camp.
You would have to ask for commitments in advance but that shouldn't be too much
of a hardship. This year's campfire was a fun event and having us camped in
close proximity would allow for nightly informal gatherings rather than require
a lot of advance planning.
You'll be taking quite a bit upon yourself but the results would certainly be worthwhile.
Count me in!
Tim Juhl
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308517#308517
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Carey <careywf(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2011 the year of the Zenith |
Hi Joe,
I'm a 601XL builder from Dayton, OH. My 601XL won't be a B model by the 2011
Oshkosh, but I have been going to Oshkosh for over 20 years and would be more
than happy to volunteer my time making the Zenith brand, especially the 601XLB,
a highly visible aircraft at Oshkosh. As you get closer to what you think will
work for Zenith at Oshkosh, let me know ways I might be able to help out. Walt
Carey in Dayton, OH.
----- Original Message ----
From: Joe <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 1:52:03 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 2011 the year of the Zenith
Friends and fellow builders,
I started this discussion on the Zenith Aircraft builders and flyers blog. Below
is a copy of the post. I would appreciate it if I could get some input from
everyone on this subject. I would love to see the 2011 EAA Convention in Oshkosh
become the year of the Zenith!
------
Hope you all came home safely from Oshkosh! Another great year and once again,
there are no other kits on the field I would rather build than a Zenith! Once
again, by looking at the grass around the Zenith site in Oshkosh, the grass
won't be growing there for a while!
The Zenith tent had what I feel was an incredible turnout of walking traffic all
week!
With that said, I'm wondering where all the Zenith airplanes are during Oshkosh?
I have an idea I would like to share with the group and please take the time to
write a comment to this discussion so I can get an idea where I should go from
here.
I'm lucky enough to say I live just a few blocks from the Oshkosh airfield! I
plan to have my 601 XL on the field next year, and I have an idea that I passed
on to Sebastian - and he gave me his blessing.
I'm looking to see if there is enough interest among the builders to make
Oshkosh 2011 the year of the Zenith! Seeing that I live in Oshkosh, I know
almost everyone in management at the EAA, I work with the Oshkosh media, I know
where all the great eating and catering places are in Oshkosh, I would like to
volunteer to put a program together to make 2011 our year at EAA.
I can imagine many things, but I would like to get a discussion going to see
what you would like to see Zenith do in Oshkosh. It's easy to get a plot of
parking spaces similar to the RV parking near the homebuilt kit display. Is
there 25 or more aircraft we could count on to come to Oshkosh? If the answer is
yes, we can all park together on the field. I can set up group accommodations at
the university, or group camping on the field, or group camping where we park
the planes. Let's get Chris to Oshkosh and honor him with the recognition he
deserves. Would you like to build a kit on the field? Group cookouts? Maybe a
larger place to meet for dinner just for 2011? Any or all of the above things
would be covered with major press releases.
Not only would we all have a blast, but it would solidify the Zenith brand and
make the company stronger in the eyes of EAA members and the press.
So I guess to start the discussion, do you think we could get a minimum of 25
Zenith aircraft to attend Oshkosh 2011? We have 3 here already. Then after the
initial commitment, we can work on housing, etc.
So what do you think? Please give me your opinion.
Joe in Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack Kreizenbeck" <aprazer(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2011 the year of the Zenith |
Joe,
I think that this is a wonderful idea! Please count me as one of the 25 with
high hopes that we can entice
more than 25 aircraft & their owners.
I like the idea of inviting Chris and honoring him for all that he has done.
I'd vote in favor to construct a 650 during the convention.
Please reserve me a room @ the U.
I'll throw my hat in the ring as a gopher for the additional help that
you'll need.
Mack
601XL being upgraded
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2011 the year of the Zenith |
Joe,
I'm in the middle of phase I flight testing on my HDS finally. My 16 year old
grandson is pressuring me to fly him into Oshkosh next year. I would love to
be one of the 25 planes. Hopefully my wife will give me a week long pass.
Jerry
N316JL 12 hours of testing done/28 more to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | altitude encoder |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
hey
just got my transponder Garmin 327 and have to install an altitude encoder. Where
have people installed this?? Does it go behind the inst panel or is it plumbed
some where else?
Chris
Zodiac XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308625#308625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | altitude encoder |
Hi Chris,
I didn't have a separate encoder since I used the Dynon output for this
function.
I don't think it matters where you put the encoder. You probably need to
connect it to your static air system so it can sense altitude reasonably
correctly.
Paul
XL installing upgrade
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:13 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: altitude encoder
hey
just got my transponder Garmin 327 and have to install an altitude encoder.
Where have people installed this?? Does it go behind the inst panel or is it
plumbed some where else?
Chris
Zodiac XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308625#308625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vvkidd(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: altitude encoder |
I installed mine on the floor support for the baggage compartment behind the passenger's
seat.
Used same CB as the Transponder. Plumbed off the static line for pressure.
Victor Kidd
N922VK
Charleston, WV CRW
--Original Message-----
>From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
>Sent: Aug 13, 2010 6:12 AM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: altitude encoder
>
>
>hey
>just got my transponder Garmin 327 and have to install an altitude encoder. Where
have people installed this?? Does it go behind the inst panel or is it plumbed
some where else?
>Chris
>Zodiac XL
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308625#308625
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NYTerminat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: altitude encoder |
Make sure you have easy access to the encoder and mount it so that it can
be removed for your VFR transponder / encoder test every two years. My
avionics guy grumbles at me every two years.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX / CH701
In a message dated 8/13/2010 6:24:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
don't think it matters where you put the encoder. You probably need to
connect it to your static air system so it can sense altitude reasonably
correctly.
Paul
XL installing upgrade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
| Subject: | Re: altitude encoder |
On Friday 13 August 2010 05:12:39 you wrote:
>
>
> hey
> just got my transponder Garmin 327 and have to install an altitude encoder.
> Where have people installed this?? Does it go behind the inst panel or is
> it plumbed some where else? Chris
> Zodiac XL
The altitude encoder can go almost anywhere behind the firewall. It must be
connected to the static air system, as does your airspeed indicator and
altimeter.
For these reasons, it is usually placed somewhere behind the panel, and near
the altimeter and airspeed indicator. It's a good idea for it to be
accessible, since it must be calibrated every two years by someone approved to
do this at a repair station. If it's hard to reach, they may think unkind
thoughts.
To be legal, it should be calibrated before initial use.
--
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: altitude encoder |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
thanks gang
I saw a photo off macs machine.com of his encoder and will put it under the dash
as well. I will have the Dynon 100 in place but was told by my C of A inspector,
that our Aussie rules would not allow the D100 to be wired directly to the
Transponder. a $200 bummer. Since he was going to be signing off on the plane
I guess I should fit one..
Chris.
XL Sydney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308724#308724
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sensenich G/A composite prop AD |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Anyone know any more about this?
My prop is brand new still in the box and they want me to now look for cracks as
soon as I use it.. Should I just return it and see if I can get my money back?
Sensenich issued a service bulletin on their props for Jabiru last month, did you
see that?
http://www.sensenich.com/files/ documents/ Service_Bulletin s_Composite_ Jabiru_Blade_ Service_Bulletin _SB-10-07- 21_1279986506. pdf
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308969#308969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | XL Center section |
| From: | Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net> |
Folks,
This weekend I got enough solid rivets in the center section that I can
call it "done". However I have two lingering questions.
1. Did people that have completed it put washers under the heads as well
as the nuts of the AN4 bolts? Or just the nuts? I have almost a full
thread showing with a washer under the head and nut.
2. How tight is the fit of the upgraded wing spar in the upgraded center
section. I tried to do a test fit and the top seems awful tight, like
needed-to-pry-the-halves-apart-a-bit so the top part of the spar would
fit.
I'm > < close to calling zenith and just ordering an upgraded center
section.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <paulrod36(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Center section |
Lee, you may want to talk it over with Zenith before ordering. As I
recall, they pre-fit each set of spars and carry-through, and mixed
parts may not necessarily fit together.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Steensland<mailto:zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: XL Center section
>
Folks,
This weekend I got enough solid rivets in the center section that I
can
call it "done". However I have two lingering questions.
1. Did people that have completed it put washers under the heads as
well
as the nuts of the AN4 bolts? Or just the nuts? I have almost a full
thread showing with a washer under the head and nut.
2. How tight is the fit of the upgraded wing spar in the upgraded
center
section. I tried to do a test fit and the top seems awful tight, like
needed-to-pry-the-halves-apart-a-bit so the top part of the spar would
fit.
I'm > < close to calling zenith and just ordering an upgraded center
section.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | XL Center section |
Hi Lee,
I think the primary purpose of washers with bolts is to adjust the length of bolt
required. I believe you should always have at least 2 threads showing after
tightening the nut.
I don't think there is any reason to use washers with solid rivets. Indeed I have
never heard of anyone doing that. Sometimes there is a need to add a layer
of metal to make up for an irregular hole, but that is usually larger than a
washer.
Paul
XL working on upgrade of second wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Steensland
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 9:57 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: XL Center section
Folks,
This weekend I got enough solid rivets in the center section that I can
call it "done". However I have two lingering questions.
1. Did people that have completed it put washers under the heads as well
as the nuts of the AN4 bolts? Or just the nuts? I have almost a full
thread showing with a washer under the head and nut.
2. How tight is the fit of the upgraded wing spar in the upgraded center
section. I tried to do a test fit and the top seems awful tight, like
needed-to-pry-the-halves-apart-a-bit so the top part of the spar would
fit.
I'm > < close to calling zenith and just ordering an upgraded center
section.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | XL Center section |
They matched the parts for a while (the wing and center spars in my QBK all
have matching serial number plates). But I recall being told at a later time
that this was no longer necessary. But I bet it depends on the vintage of
your spars.
-- Craig
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
paulrod36(at)msn.com
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: XL Center section
Lee, you may want to talk it over with Zenith before ordering. As I recall,
they pre-fit each set of spars and carry-through, and mixed parts may not
necessarily fit together.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Steensland <mailto:zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: XL Center section
Folks,
This weekend I got enough solid rivets in the center section that I can
call it "done". However I have two lingering questions.
1. Did people that have completed it put washers under the heads as well
as the nuts of the AN4 bolts? Or just the nuts? I have almost a full
thread showing with a washer under the head and nut.
2. How tight is the fit of the upgraded wing spar in the upgraded center
section. I tried to do a test fit and the top seems awful tight, like
needed-to-pry-the-halves-apart-a-bit so the top part of the spar would
fit.
I'm > < close to calling zenith and just ordering an upgraded Features Chat,
http://www.matnbsp;
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: XL Center section |
Sounds like you're doing everything right, Lee.
I have one washer under the nut on the AN4s, nothing more.
And yes, it IS a tight fit, and you may have to spread the spar a bit to get the
wing stub end to nest.
Rick Lindstrom
Zenvair N42KP
-----Original Message-----
>From: Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
>Sent: Aug 16, 2010 9:56 AM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: XL Center section
>
>
>Folks,
>
>This weekend I got enough solid rivets in the center section that I can
>call it "done". However I have two lingering questions.
>
>1. Did people that have completed it put washers under the heads as well
>as the nuts of the AN4 bolts? Or just the nuts? I have almost a full
>thread showing with a washer under the head and nut.
>
>2. How tight is the fit of the upgraded wing spar in the upgraded center
>section. I tried to do a test fit and the top seems awful tight, like
>needed-to-pry-the-halves-apart-a-bit so the top part of the spar would
>fit.
>
>I'm > < close to calling zenith and just ordering an upgraded center
>section.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601 XLB for Rent? |
| From: | "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> |
Are any flight schools renting out a 601XLB for training? Just curious. Trying
to get some Zodiac time.[/b]
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309829#309829
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
Dragonfly Aviation in Northern California had 2 of them. I just do not
know if they have had the upgrade yet. I know one of them was a factory
built, so it may be back online. I plan on calling them soon to get about 5
hours in before I test mine out!
In a message dated 8/22/2010 7:53:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "MHerder"
Are any flight schools renting out a 601XLB for training? Just curious.
Trying to get some Zodiac time.[/b]
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309829#309829
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | 601 XLB for Rent? |
Hi guys,
I too would like to get some time in before my first test flight. I'm not
ready yet, but I hope to be getting there soon.
I hope folks will publish information about XL rentals available on this
list. I'm sure lots of folks would love to get a checkout in the next year.
Paul
Camas, WA
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LHusky(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601 XLB for Rent?
Dragonfly Aviation in Northern California had 2 of them. I just do not know
if they have had the upgrade yet. I know one of them was a factory built,
so it may be back online. I plan on calling them soon to get about 5 hours
in before I test mine out!
In a message dated 8/22/2010 7:53:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com writes:
Are any flight schools renting out a 601XLB for training? Just curious.
Trying to get some Zodiac time.[/b]
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309829#309829==================
===========================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ===============================================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
==================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
Paul Hamilton offers both rental and instruction in a 601XLB in the Reno area.
http://sportaviationcenter.com/pilot-training/aircraft-rental/
Since E-AB's cannot be used for rentals, all rentals and instruction and
rental must be done in S-LSA's which are subject to the mandatory upgrade
under the SAIB. Hence any 601XL/650 available for rental or instruction
must be XLB's.
See also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNeEqOaru8 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1z3n1NHmg
Terry
>
>Are any flight schools renting out a 601XLB for training? Just
>curious. Trying to get some Zodiac time.[/b]
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309829#309829
>
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
It looks like there is still one in Holland, Michigan.
http://www.tulipcityair.com/home.aspx
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309854#309854
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
| From: | "skyriderekm" <skyriderekm(at)yahoo.com> |
Dave and all,
You are correct. Tulip City Airport DOES have a CH601XL-B. I just received information from them stating the aircraft HAS been upgraded. Here's their website: www.tulipcityair.com
I know I will be heading up there next spring when I'm closer to completing my
CH650. I'm working on the upgrade right now. (Thanks Tim Juhl for your help
getting me started again!)
Tailwinds
Larry Hursh
Edwardsburg, MI
Will be Corvair 2700cc powered.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309915#309915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
You might consider looking for a Piper Sport. It is almost identical
to the un-modified 601XL but with different hinges for control surfaces
and a different (and weaker) nose wheel. Other than having to be more
careful to keep the nose up until the speed bleeds down, it handles the
same.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: 601 XLB for Rent? |
Also for even another option I took my transition training in a Remos GX it
has a stick control and has very close airspeeds to the 601XL even though
it is a high wing aircraft it worked for me. David Coberly 601XLB / Corvair
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Speed Markings |
| From: | "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> |
What type of tape, or what did you use to mark your airspeeds on your steam gauge
type AS indicator? Red Vne, Yellow Va, Green ??
Is there a special product for this?
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310106#310106
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Air Speed Markings |
Spruce sells it:
OPERATING RANGE VINYL DECALS 10-03905 $2.95
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MHerder
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Air Speed Markings
-->
What type of tape, or what did you use to mark your airspeeds on your steam
gauge type AS indicator? Red Vne, Yellow Va, Green ??
Is there a special product for this?
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310106#310106
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Steer <steerr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Speed Markings |
I used Wag-Aero part number A-005-199. $4.75.
Bill
On 8/25/2010 1:22 PM, MHerder wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "MHerder"
>
> What type of tape, or what did you use to mark your airspeeds on your steam gauge
type AS indicator? Red Vne, Yellow Va, Green ??
>
> Is there a special product for this?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Speed Markings |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Mike,
I ordered a kit from Aircraft Spruce. It has everything needed, except th
e patience required. I later ran the red not-to-exceed line clear over
the bezel at the request of my DAR.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 12:22 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Air Speed Markings
om>
What type of tape, or what did you use to mark your airspeeds on your stea
m
gauge type AS indicator? Red Vne, Yellow Va, Green ??
Is there a special product for this?
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310106#310106
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
I need your help.
My airplane, N2630J, "Lil Bruiser", a Zodiac 601XL with a William Wynne Co
rvair engine, was a certified (E-AB), well mannered, flying airplane. In
an off-airport landing, it struck a berm, bending t the nose gear strut,
firewall, cabin floor and cowling. The prop was stopped in the horizonta
l position, so the prop nor engine suffered damage. It is now hangared at
Hicks Airfield near Fort Worth, Texas.
Because of my physical condition, I am no longer able to fly, so I know th
at I will never fly this airplane. Consequently, as you might guess, I
have no motivation to repair it myself; and would like to sell it to some
one who will fly it..
I have invested around $50,000 in the airplane and I am willing to sell it
for $20,000. It will require about $3,000 in parts to repair. So for arou
nd $23,000 (less than the cost of a 650 kit and an engine) and around 300
hours of work, a person could have one sweet $50,000 airplane in a relati
vely short period of time.
I have the XLB upgrade kit, still in the shipping containers that will be
furnished to a buyer.
My questions are:
Is trying to sell the airplane as is, where is, reasonable?
If so, how is the best way to go about finding a buyer?
If not, should I consider selling parts, or just sell the whole thing to
the salvage yard?
Thanks for your help in advance,
Jay Bannister
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
Jay,
I would think your best bet it to sell it as is. Since it has flown
and has an airworthness certificate, it should be worth more as a package.
I also once damaged the nose wheel and had to streighten up some
other metal. It turned out not to be as big a job as was expected. Most
of the critical (read not easily replaced) parts could be fixed in
place. Everything that needed to be replaced was done in perhaps 50 hours.
I understand that Flight Crafters in Zephyrhills 813-690-1916 will
do the upgrade at a very reasonable price. He is also likely to do the
repair. I would ask for a ball park estimate. He will probably want a
bunch of pictures. He can call me if desired about the issue of this
particular repair. Then advertise it as is but show the estimates to
make it flyable again.
One thing I would do while waiting is treat the engine for long
term storage.
Good luck.
On 08/25/2010 2:11 PM, jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> I need your help.
>
> My airplane, N2630J, "Lil Bruiser", a Zodiac 601XL with a William
> Wynne Corvair engine, was a certified (E-AB), well mannered, flying
> airplane. In an off-airport landing, it struck a berm, bending t the
> nose gear strut, firewall, cabin floor and cowling. The prop was
> stopped in the horizontal position, so the prop nor engine suffered
> damage. It is now hangared at Hicks Airfield near Fort Worth, Texas.
>
> Because of my physical condition, I am no longer able to fly, so I
> know that I will never fly this airplane. Consequently, as you might
> guess, I have no motivation to repair it myself; and would like to
> sell it to someone who will fly it..
>
> I have invested around $50,000 in the airplane and I am willing to
> sell it for $20,000. It will require about $3,000 in parts to repair.
> So for around $23,000 (less than the cost of a 650 kit and an engine)
> and around 300 hours of work, a person could have one sweet $50,000
> airplane in a relatively short period of time.
>
> I have the XLB upgrade kit, still in the shipping containers that will
> be furnished to a buyer.
>
> My questions are:
>
> Is trying to sell the airplane as is, where is, reasonable?
>
> If so, how is the best way to go about finding a buyer?
>
> If not, should I consider selling parts, or just sell the whole thing
> to the salvage yard?
>
> Thanks for your help in advance,
>
> Jay Bannister
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vvkidd(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Air Speed Markings |
Check Aircraft Spruce for IAS marking tape.
Victor Kidd
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2010 1:32 PM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Air Speed Markings
>
>
>Spruce sells it:
>
>OPERATING RANGE VINYL DECALS 10-03905 $2.95
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MHerder
>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:22 AM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: Air Speed Markings
>
>-->
>
>What type of tape, or what did you use to mark your airspeeds on your steam
>gauge type AS indicator? Red Vne, Yellow Va, Green ??
>
>Is there a special product for this?
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310106#310106
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
Jay,
I think you'd be wise to advertise it at some of the free sites, your
nearest EAA Chapter newsletter and try to sell it as a rebuild. I don't
think it would take too long for
someone to realize the value of your aircraft. It sounds like a good
deal to me, so someone will probably jump in and buy it. Give it a few
weeks.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> I need your help.
>
> My airplane, N2630J, "Lil Bruiser", a Zodiac 601XL with a William
> Wynne Corvair engine, was a certified (E-AB), well mannered, flying
> airplane. In an off-airport landing, it struck a berm, bending t the
> nose gear strut, firewall, cabin floor and cowling. The prop was
> stopped in the horizontal position, so the prop nor engine suffered
> damage. It is now hangared at Hicks Airfield near Fort Worth, Texas.
>
> Because of my physical condition, I am no longer able to fly, so I
> know that I will never fly this airplane. Consequently, as you might
> guess, I have no motivation to repair it myself; and would like to
> sell it to someone who will fly it..
>
> I have invested around $50,000 in the airplane and I am willing to
> sell it for $20,000. It will require about $3,000 in parts to repair.
> So for around $23,000 (less than the cost of a 650 kit and an engine)
> and around 300 hours of work, a person could have one sweet $50,000
> airplane in a relatively short period of time.
>
> I have the XLB upgrade kit, still in the shipping containers that will
> be furnished to a buyer.
>
> My questions are:
>
> Is trying to sell the airplane as is, where is, reasonable?
>
> If so, how is the best way to go about finding a buyer?
>
> If not, should I consider selling parts, or just sell the whole thing
> to the salvage yard?
>
> Thanks for your help in advance,
>
> Jay Bannister
>
>
> *
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Bryan,
You are correct. If my airplane were repaired by a new owner, there would
be no need to involve an A&P. I do have a Repairman's Certificate and wo
uld offer to do a condition inspection after the repairs are completed. Th
e original operating limitations would still apply, except for the Phase
1 test area, which would come from the local FSDO. .
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Help !
et>
Anybody can make the repairs to this airplane, the repairman certificate
is only
required to sign off the annual condition inspection. In this case, the ne
w
owner could do all of the repairs and Jay might offer to inspect the work
and
sign it off as part of the deal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Speed Markings |
| From: | "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> |
Thanks all. I figured spruce would have something.
Their search function on their website is pretty weak though. I searched it about
15 different ways, and didn't find anything similar.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310164#310164
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
Does anyone know where to find the new maneuvering and never exceed speeds.
What else changed??
bobby
Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Bobby,
I downloaded a copy of the POH and Mtce Manual from the AMD sometime
ago. The speeds are in the POH.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, 28 August 2010 6:01 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: New V speeds
Does anyone know where to find the new maneuvering and never exceed
speeds.
What else changed??
bobby
Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Goodine <goodine41(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi=2C
Looking for plans to build and install skis on my 601 HDS tail dragger. Is
there anyone out there that may have proven plans and or perhaps know if th
ere is a ski kit available.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi gang
can someone please shoot me a picture of how this piece sits against the side of
the fuselage skin and around the rear spar upright. I am a bit confused .
Does it sit fully next to the skin between the upright at the undercarriage and
the rear spar upright
or
Does it go between the skin and upright at the back but at the front section you
have side skin/spar upright/ 6zu3-2 and then the bracket 6B10-4 over the lot.
Chris..
the Zenith Aero video was not clear on this and the photo guide shows it going
behind both I think..
a photos worth a thousand words
Chris
Zodiac XLB
Sydney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310779#310779
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Chris,
I installed it per your first assumption. I placed 6ZU3-2 against the skin and
under all surrounding uprights and stiffeners. Picture attached.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310805#310805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/upgrade_19_113.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
Hey David did you change your aft uprights also?
Jeff
In a message dated 8/31/2010 10:35:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/upgrade_19_113.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Jeff,
My aft upright is still the original one.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310821#310821
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com> |
FWIW, I puzzled over this also and called Caleb at Zenith. Here is a picture of
the outcome of that conversation on mykitlog.
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=780&category=0&log=101653&row=7
I was able to drive the part up from below, the most puzzling part was did the
verticle spar get sandwiched or not. Caleb and I agreed that it should be sandwiched.
I noticed Dave made it the other way, and I'm sure it's fine that way also. I
just think, and Caleb agreed, the sandwiched joint it makes a stronger junction.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310879#310879
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Thanks Ron and Dave
its a bit clearer now. my only thought was the bulge due thickness of new 3-2,pushing
out the side skin of the fuse as you we are still using our existing rear
spar upright & bolt holes.
Was this a problem?
on the Zenith builders photos it shows the ZU-3-2 as inside the Spar upright and
the spar upright contacting the side skin? go figure..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310899#310899
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Chris,
As far as your concern about a bulge in the side skin, each airplane will have
it's own best solution. In my case, adding both pieces under the upright seemed
to fit better. It can certainly go either way. As far as a sandwiched joint
making for a stronger upright, that could be, but I will not lose any sleep
over it. A sandwich with 6B10-4 is only a one rivet sandwich. All this talk
of sandwiches is making me hungry. Let's fly out for lunch!
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310929#310929
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
| From: | "Scotsman" <jaroberts(at)bdo.co.za> |
I also didn't sandwich the joint. It didn't feel right and like someone said earlier
it is only a one rivet sandwich which I sincerely doubt adds much strength.
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310972#310972
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
Are the rubber wing fairings glued on or just squeezed in the 2-4mm space next
to the fuselage?
Thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310981#310981
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing fairings |
Hi Mike,
I didn't use any glue on mine and they are fine.
John Davis
N601JD - 601 XL(soon to be B), Jab 3300
Located at 7A8
On 9/1/2010 3:49 PM, AZFlyer wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "AZFlyer"
>
> Are the rubber wing fairings glued on or just squeezed in the 2-4mm space next
to the fuselage?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> --------
> Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
> 601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
>
> Remember,"the second mouse gets the cheese"!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310981#310981
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
The important thing to have in mind is that has to "make" a reinforced stru
cture, -the more area it touches the better... -
Gary.
--- On Wed, 9/1/10, chris Sinfield wrote:
From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2
Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 3:41 AM
o.com.au>
Thanks Ron and Dave
its a bit clearer now. my only thought was the bulge due thickness of new 3
-2,pushing out the side skin of the fuse as you we are still using our exis
ting rear spar upright & bolt holes.
Was this a problem?
on the Zenith builders photos it shows the ZU-3-2- as inside the Spar upr
ight and the spar upright contacting the side skin? go figure..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310899#310899
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
Mike,
The 55 Page Pre-Flight Check List requires the rubber wing fairings to be glued.
See Page 15 Item 133.
Bobby
Flew .4 hrs Today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net |
List,
I have the Jabiru 3300 in my 601 XL.
CHT's on the right bank 1, 3, & 5 are all aroung 265 ~ 275 degrees.
On the right bank #2 is 270 to 280 but #4 is running 335 plus and #6 is 345 and
above. Has anyone had any luck adding a lip on the eyebrow inlet of the left
bank?? The prop is coming up on that side and a lip may help direct more ram air
into the duct. I have seen a couple of photos but no real evidence or documentation
that it has helped. any info would be greatly appreciated. I have been
chasing temperatures for the last 60 hours.
Thanks
Bobby
Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Fairing |
There is no need to glue them if the gap between the wing and side skin is
within 4 or so mm. I rivet the ends to the wing and have never had a
problem. if you glue them you will just tare them up if you have to remove them
for any reason.
Jeff
In a message dated 9/2/2010 4:35:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net writes:
Mike,
The 55 Page Pre-Flight Check List requires the rubber wing fairings to be
glued. See Page 15 Item 133.
Bobby
Flew .4 hrs Today
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 6G2-3 stop plate |
| From: | Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net> |
Folks,
I've been toying with the nose gear leg, and I noticed something. First
I don't have a 6G2-3 stop plate anywhere. It doesn't appear on any of
the packing slips and I don't have one in my inventory.
Further, when I look at the top of my nose gear leg where the stop plate
is supposed to mount, all I see is a smooth plastic plug press fit into
the tube. The plans and the construction guide do not do a good job
showing how it connects.
Any ideas how the stop plate is supposed to connect?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: center spar upgrade 6ZU 3-2 |
Are they 40 or .063? They look like the .040 but hard to tell from the
photo.
Jeff
In a message dated 8/31/2010 11:55:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL"
Jeff,
My aft upright is still the original one.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=310821#310821
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6G2-3 stop plate |
You have the newer version and it doesn't require a stop plate. Zenith made
the tube a little longer to eliminate it.
jeff
In a message dated 9/2/2010 8:22:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
zenith-list(at)steensland.net writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Lee Steensland
Folks,
I've been toying with the nose gear leg, and I noticed something. First
I don't have a 6G2-3 stop plate anywhere. It doesn't appear on any of
the packing slips and I don't have one in my inventory.
Further, when I look at the top of my nose gear leg where the stop plate
is supposed to mount, all I see is a smooth plastic plug press fit into
the tube. The plans and the construction guide do not do a good job
showing how it connects.
Any ideas how the stop plate is supposed to connect?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6G2-3 stop plate |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Lee,
If I am not mistaken, the latest kits do not have a stop plate on top of
the nose gear strut. My kit from 2006 had a stop plate, but my friend's
quick build kit from 2009 doesn't have one.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 7:13 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: 6G2-3 stop plate
nd.net>
Folks,
I've been toying with the nose gear leg, and I noticed something. First
I don't have a 6G2-3 stop plate anywhere. It doesn't appear on any of
the packing slips and I don't have one in my inventory.
Further, when I look at the top of my nose gear leg where the stop plate
is supposed to mount, all I see is a smooth plastic plug press fit into
the tube. The plans and the construction guide do not do a good job
showing how it connects.
Any ideas how the stop plate is supposed to connect?
========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | pitot static plumbing |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Ok now for the exciting stuff
has anyone used the quick push in couplings for their air lines?
which to get Stein Air's? , Spruce??
Also going to use the second pipe on the Zenith Pitot tube for AOA and putting
in 2 fuse static ports
please post your comments..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311206#311206
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Chris,
My DAR says he really prefers the push-on barbed connections for pitot and
static. Once on there, they will not come off. They must be cut off and
a new piece of tubing installed. He says the compression type connection
s tend to leak and fail a pressure check.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 7:17 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: pitot static plumbing
oo.com.au>
Ok now for the exciting stuff
has anyone used the quick push in couplings for their air lines?
which to get Stein Air's? , Spruce??
Also going to use the second pipe on the Zenith Pitot tube for AOA and put
ting
in 2 fuse static ports
please post your comments..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311206#311206
========================
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========================
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========================
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========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Afterfxllc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
Chris
It depends of the type line you run also. If you run rubber hose (like fuel
line) use clamps , if you run 1/4 inch nylon use compression, and if you
use the clear rubber you can use barbed fittings. We do a pitot static check
of each aircraft and most have leaks and we repair them with compression
fittings and nylon lines. If your brake lines don't leak then that's pretty
good evidence it works and works well.
Jeff
In a message dated 9/3/2010 8:18:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "chris Sinfield"
Ok now for the exciting stuff
has anyone used the quick push in couplings for their air lines?
which to get Stein Air's? , Spruce??
Also going to use the second pipe on the Zenith Pitot tube for AOA and
putting in 2 fuse static ports
please post your comments..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311206#311206
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6G2-3 stop plate |
| From: | "Lee Steensland" <lee(at)steensland.net> |
And I'm supposed to know this how?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311256#311256
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
| From: | "wa7dvd" <wa7dvd(at)comcast.net> |
I used the Safe Air quick connects that are now sold by Steinair. I have not had
the official static test done yet but from the testing I did they seal very
well when using the nylon tube they sell for it
-Bruce-.
--------
BK Johnson
Zodiac 601XLb
N601BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311266#311266
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
I've used the SafeAir fittings as well and have not had any problems
with my Pitot Static tests. You can also purchase them from
www.safeair1.com.
John Davis
N601JD - 601XL
On 9/3/2010 2:00 PM, wa7dvd wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "wa7dvd"
>
> I used the Safe Air quick connects that are now sold by Steinair. I have not
had the official static test done yet but from the testing I did they seal very
well when using the nylon tube they sell for it
>
> -Bruce-.
>
> --------
> BK Johnson
> Zodiac 601XLb
> N601BK
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311266#311266
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Has anyone designed of built a set of glass wingroot fairings for the 601XL
?
-
I saw an old article on the web where-someone fabricated a set for-a 60
1HD and am trying to figure out how to do the same for my XL with the diffe
rent wing.
-
The rubber gasket fairings are neither very pretty nor particularly effecti
ve,-especially if you don't have perfectly straight edges.
-
Jim
N156WT=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Hi Jim,
I had good luck with the rubber gasket approach on the wing/fuselage joint.
I used the recommended glue - Locktite Stick'n Seal from Wal*Mart.
I had one area where the trimming I did on the wing skin left a gap between
the wing and fuselage. I fixed that by riveting a strip of skin weight (.
025 in my case) aluminum to the wing skin to fill the gap. It was just a
matter of shaping the strip to match the fuselage and not worrying about how
much overlap it had with the wing skin (of course considering minimum edge
distances).
Paul
XL upgrading second wing
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
vmi67(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings
Has anyone designed of built a set of glass wingroot fairings for the 601XL?
I saw an old article on the web where someone fabricated a set for a 601HD
and am trying to figure out how to do the same for my XL with the different
wing.
The rubber gasket fairings are neither very pretty nor particularly
effective, especially if you don't have perfectly straight edges.
Jim
N156WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Jim,
Yes there was a guy that made fiberglass wing root farings for an HDS. Yo
u have to remember that the HD and HDS have no flaps. The flaps make it
difficult to incorporate much of a wing root faring for an XL. The guy
that made them for his HDS is Klaus Truemper of Dallas and he did a LOT
of research into the subject. You might pick his brain to see if he has
any ideas about adapting his design for an XL.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: vmi67(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 3, 2010 2:41 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings
Has anyone designed of built a set of glass wingroot fairings for the 601X
L?
I saw an old article on the web where someone fabricated a set for a 601HD
and am trying to figure out how to do the same for my XL with the differe
nt wing.
The rubber gasket fairings are neither very pretty nor particularly effect
ive, especially if you don't have perfectly straight edges.
Jim
N156WT
========================
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========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
I made rigid foam forms on the a/c, coated them with epoxy and then cast
the fibreglas fairings with flanges for the wing and fuselage surfaces.
Fashioned after the Spitfire wing fairings, going back along the fuse
about 14 inches from the wing trailing edge.
They did improve air flow over the horizontal stab. and the elevators
Dave Austin 601HDS 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Thanks Gang
I was going to use the Safe air stuff but have just read it works only with their
tubing.. Thats why I was looking at the Stein Air fittings.
I have as l have ready run the Zenith supplied 1/4 inch stuff, maybe the barbed
T's and stuff are the way to go. where do we get them from Spruce?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311306#311306
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Eddie Seve did it to his XL
here is his website page
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=eddieseve&project=343&category=0&log=50438&row=46
I forgot to take photos today, as I was so distracted with the fitting and initial
test flying with the wing fairings finally fitted. I have yet to collect some
worthwhile data, but one thing I can say for certain is that stall speed has
been reduced quite dramatically. I did 4 circuits in all, but it was at the
wrong time of the day as the thermals where a little rough.
First take off was with half flap and climb seems to have improved but I was getting
bounced too much for this to be accurate. In circuit the big thing I noticed
was the response of the ailerons is much improved, they are much more in
balance with the elevator. Cruse downwind required 200 rpm less to fly at 110lknots;
pervious was 2600rpm. Landings, it seems to take a little more effort to
slow the plane down and the flair is greatly improved.
I did a few more landings with various stages of flap and it feels like a different
plane.
Last landing was no flap and this one blew me away, previously the aircraft would
stop flying at around 35knots, this now seems to have drop by a good 8knots
or so (I'll need to do lots more landings to confirm this, but it was great,
even when the stall did occur it still wanted to keep flying. This would have
to have been my best landing to date and I now have 36 happy hours on the airframe.
Next week I'll post some photos, the fairings look fairly ugly in primer at the
moment; I'll also gather some data in nice smooth early morning air.
and finally here they are
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=eddieseve&project=343&category=0&log=56146&row=31
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311308#311308
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott E Bevier" <ke4hrh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pitot static plumbing |
The push in quick connects are made by SMC. The KV series. They also make
the tubing.
Read all about it. Get CAD drawings.
http://www.smcusa.com/sections/products/fittings_tubings.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:55 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: pitot static plumbing
-->
Thanks Gang
I was going to use the Safe air stuff but have just read it works only with
their tubing.. Thats why I was looking at the Stein Air fittings.
I have as l have ready run the Zenith supplied 1/4 inch stuff, maybe the
barbed T's and stuff are the way to go. where do we get them from Spruce?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311306#311306
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
I am hoping that someone will design and sell a set of wing root
fairings
for the 601 HDS. I don't have the time or skill. I would think that it
would be a money-maker.
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
----- Original Message -----
From: vmi67(at)yahoo.com
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings
Has anyone designed of built a set of glass wingroot fairings
for the 601XL?
I saw an old article on the web where someone fabricated a set
for a 601HD and am trying to figure out how to do the same for my XL
with the different wing.
The rubber gasket fairings are neither very pretty nor
particularly effective, especially if you don't have perfectly straight
edges.
Jim
N156WT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
Group:
While I was waiting for a new prop this summer, I decided not to waste
the downtime, so
I drilled the rivets out of the cover over my instrument panel and gas
tank on my 601 HDS
and I replaced the rivets with nutplates, and with just bolts and nuts
along the longerons.
Unfortunately, it was a son-of-a-gun to put nuts and bolts along the
longerons. It would be
much easier if I were to thread the bolts from the inside and place the
nuts along the
outside of the longeron, on just the passenger side of the plane. My
plan is to use thin nuts
and the shortest 8-32 screws that I can. My AP/IA friend said that we
can't do that, because it
is not aviation. I want to do it anyway because it would make it so much
easier to access the instrument
panel and I don't think that it would affect streamlining significantly.
What say you, members of the jury ?
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nuts on outside |
Demian, I would run this by the folks at Zenair.
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD
Fuselage work in progress
On 3 September 2010 21:11, Damien wrote:
> Group:
> While I was waiting for a new prop this summer, I decided not to waste the
> downtime, so
> I drilled the rivets out of the cover over my instrument panel and gas tank
> on my 601 HDS
> and I replaced the rivets with nutplates, and with just bolts and nuts
> along the longerons.
> Unfortunately, it was a son-of-a-gun to put nuts and bolts along the
> longerons. It would be
> much easier if I were to thread the bolts from the inside and place the
> nuts along the
> outside of the longeron, on just the passenger side of the plane. My plan
> is to use thin nuts
> and the shortest 8-32 screws that I can. My AP/IA friend said that we can't
> do that, because it
> is not aviation. I want to do it anyway because it would make it so much
> easier to access the instrument
> panel and I don't think that it would affect streamlining significantly.
> What say you, members of the jury ?
> Regards,
> Damien
> N48TK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
Damien,
I'm not sure why you want to use nuts and bolts at all. Do you have the
original side-to-side canopy? I drilled all the holes for riveting the top
skin and then changed to use aviation nutplates and screws all around. It
worked out fine, but I have an XL style canopy. The length of the bolt and
how many threads extend past the nut are valid "aviation" considerations.
Jeff Davidson
CH601-HD
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 9:11 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Nuts on outside
Group:
While I was waiting for a new prop this summer, I decided not to waste the
downtime, so
I drilled the rivets out of the cover over my instrument panel and gas tank
on my 601 HDS
and I replaced the rivets with nutplates, and with just bolts and nuts along
the longerons.
Unfortunately, it was a son-of-a-gun to put nuts and bolts along the
longerons. It would be
much easier if I were to thread the bolts from the inside and place the nuts
along the
outside of the longeron, on just the passenger side of the plane. My plan is
to use thin nuts
and the shortest 8-32 screws that I can. My AP/IA friend said that we can't
do that, because it
is not aviation. I want to do it anyway because it would make it so much
easier to access the instrument
panel and I don't think that it would affect streamlining significantly.
What say you, members of the jury ?
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
Hi Damien,
I found a slightly different way to accomplish the same goal you have. I
cut two large inspection holes and made corresponding plates to cover them.
This gives me relatively complete access to the area between the firewall
and instrument panel without messing with the longerons or other structural
components.
A picture is worth a thousand words:
Paul
XL upgrading second wing
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 6:11 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Nuts on outside
Group:
While I was waiting for a new prop this summer, I decided not to waste the
downtime, so
I drilled the rivets out of the cover over my instrument panel and gas tank
on my 601 HDS
and I replaced the rivets with nutplates, and with just bolts and nuts along
the longerons.
Unfortunately, it was a son-of-a-gun to put nuts and bolts along the
longerons. It would be
much easier if I were to thread the bolts from the inside and place the nuts
along the
outside of the longeron, on just the passenger side of the plane. My plan is
to use thin nuts
and the shortest 8-32 screws that I can. My AP/IA friend said that we can't
do that, because it
is not aviation. I want to do it anyway because it would make it so much
easier to access the instrument
panel and I don't think that it would affect streamlining significantly.
What say you, members of the jury ?
Regards,
Damien
N48TK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Att. is a pic of my 601 with the fairings - not a closeup, but you can see them.
Dave Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Bill,
That is an old picture. Re-painted off-white three years ago. I think you saw
it.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nuts on outside |
| From: | "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
You could cut a strip of 4130 steel .090 minimum to fit the inside of the longeron
the length of the holes you want to put screws in plus 20mm or so. Then backdrill
from the outside and tap the holes for 8-32 screws. The strip would only
strengthen the longeron when the screws were in place.
You could glue the strip to stay put when the screws were out but I think two flush
rivets placed between the existing holes would be ok.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311480#311480
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nuts on outside |
| From: | "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
Another idea that came to me while walking this morning.
Cut a strip of 6061 aluminum 15mm x the length of holes along the longeron and
top skin overlap, and add 20 mm.
Clamp the strip to the longeron inboard side and backdrill the holes.
Remove the strip and flush rivet your rivnuts to the strip.
Using two sided tape stick the strip to the longeron.
Now you have rivnuts where you need them without drilling any new holes in the
longeron.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311546#311546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron balance location |
It's also much easier to service the aileron balance in the future with the
arm in it's published location. I plan to paint the wings and ailerons, and
do the final balance thru an access door in the outboard rib.
Joe in Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Damien" <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Nuts on outside |
Chuck:
That is a great idea. After I finish adding the anchor nuts to the strip, I
may stiffen the strip with a thin piece of metal or wood. It would make it
easier to re-apply. Thanks for giving it more thought.
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Nuts on outside
>
> Another idea that came to me while walking this morning.
> Cut a strip of 6061 aluminum 15mm x the length of holes along the longeron
> and top skin overlap, and add 20 mm.
> Clamp the strip to the longeron inboard side and backdrill the holes.
> Remove the strip and flush rivet your rivnuts to the strip.
> Using two sided tape stick the strip to the longeron.
> Now you have rivnuts where you need them without drilling any new holes in
> the longeron.
> Chuck
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311546#311546
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nuts on outside |
Damien,
Keep in mind you are messing around with a structural part of your aircraft. The
skin is what gives your ship it's strength. By drilling out the rivets along
the top forward longer's you have weakened the fuselage. You may need to add
rivets to bring back the strength but there is a prescribed method as called out
by the designer. You simply can't count on some screws to replace rivets even
if the screws are stronger.
I'm not getting a feeling that you have much experience with this kind of work.
Please run this by your ap/ia friend and see what he thinks.
Chuck
---- Damien wrote:
>
> Chuck:
> That is a great idea. After I finish adding the anchor nuts to the strip, I
> may stiffen the strip with a thin piece of metal or wood. It would make it
> easier to re-apply. Thanks for giving it more thought.
> Regards,
> Damien
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chuck960" <chuckde(at)roadrunner.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:56 PM
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Nuts on outside
>
>
> >
> > Another idea that came to me while walking this morning.
> > Cut a strip of 6061 aluminum 15mm x the length of holes along the longeron
> > and top skin overlap, and add 20 mm.
> > Clamp the strip to the longeron inboard side and backdrill the holes.
> > Remove the strip and flush rivet your rivnuts to the strip.
> > Using two sided tape stick the strip to the longeron.
> > Now you have rivnuts where you need them without drilling any new holes in
> > the longeron.
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311546#311546
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
| From: | "K Dilks" <kevindilks(at)btinernet.com> |
Hi all
Well I am up to doing the electrical stuff and was wondering were folks are putting
the compass unit that comes with the D100.
I was hoping to put it up behind the D100 but looks like there may be some power
cables near enough to upset it.
Any pictures would also be appreciated
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Back home .................
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311810#311810
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
Hey, Kev.
I had to move the magnetometer on my Blue Mountain installation three times before
I found a location that wasn't affected by random magnetic fields from ferrous
airframe components. Even the control cables (steel) caused a reverse sensing
between east and west! But north and south were OK, go figure!
I finally ended up going down the tail cone, and mounting the unit with plastic
screws to the top of fuselage from the inside, about 2 feet forward of the rudder.
Works OK there.
Rick
N42KP, Upgrade Close to DONE! Yay!!
-----Original Message-----
>From: K Dilks <kevindilks(at)btinernet.com>
>Sent: Sep 8, 2010 10:22 AM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit
>
>
>Hi all
>Well I am up to doing the electrical stuff and was wondering were folks are putting
the compass unit that comes with the D100.
> I was hoping to put it up behind the D100 but looks like there may be some power
cables near enough to upset it.
>
>Any pictures would also be appreciated
>
>Thanks
>Kevin
>
>--------
>Back home .................
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311810#311810
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
Hi Kevin,
I put mine on the fuselage floor under the baggage compartment.
A photo is attached . . .
Paul
XL upgrading second wing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K Dilks
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:22 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit
Hi all
Well I am up to doing the electrical stuff and was wondering were folks are
putting the compass unit that comes with the D100.
I was hoping to put it up behind the D100 but looks like there may be some
power cables near enough to upset it.
Any pictures would also be appreciated
Thanks
Kevin
--------
Back home .................
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Kevin,
My remote compass is mounted in about the same place as Paul's. I placed it behind
the access hatch, but I also made made a mounting bracket to level the unit.
The Dynon instructions say to mount the compass within 1 degree of the panel
mounted unit, a D180 in my case, in pitch, roll and yaw. Since the fuselage
slopes upward towards the tail, my bracket counters that slope. Picture attached.
This has worked very well for me in the 2+ years I have been flying.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311825#311825
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage_248_207.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Well I thought it came internally with the D100?
so you have to set up a remote compass for the D100?
another thing to write down
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311905#311905
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
Hi Chris,
Yes, you need to mount the remote magnetic sensor and run a cable to it.
The Dynon unit comes with extensive instructions which talk all about this
and other installation issues.
Good luck,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:22 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit
Well I thought it came internally with the D100?
so you have to set up a remote compass for the D100?
another thing to write down
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311905#311905
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
| From: | "sonar1(at)cox.net" <sonar1(at)cox.net> |
I mounted mine on the floor as far back as I could reach, and only ran a hot lead
to the aft nav light, grounding the ground lead at the tail. The wires were
high up on the side of the fuselage, but still affected the compass.
Discovered that when I turned on the nav lights the compass swung 10 degrees.
Had to run both a hot and a ground twisted pair to the tail nav light.....Fred
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311934#311934
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh 2011 - The Year of the Zodiac |
Hi Everyone,
I was delighted with the response I received from builders who would like to
bring their Zeniths to Oshkosh for 2011. I received 18 replies from pilots
who would like to come to Oshkosh next year if we put up some sort of formal
event. So it looks like we will proceed! I even received 2 e-mails from
builders who would like to help, and one in Kenosha who would like to
coordinate a place to assemble before the convention for those who would
like to fly in formation to Oshkosh!
So here we go! I am meeting with Tom Poberezny on Thursday, September 16th
at 10:00 AM do discuss the possibility of having EAA help host our Zodiac
family. On my list of discussion points will be having a place on the field
where we can ALL park together similar to the RV's of today and the
Long-eze's of yesterday. We also would like EAA to give us press release
space in the magazine. I will also ask EAA to honor Chris and the family at
next year's convention.
Please help me by thinking about this and posting ideas that I should take
along to my meeting with Tom.
Once EAA agrees to a suitable parking arrangement, we can go on with step 3,
providing a place for everyone to stay in both the campgrounds and at the
University, provide transportation, publicity, etc.
Please help me by posting your ideas. We sure can have a lot of fun with
this!
Joe in Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D100 : Where to mount compass unit |
| From: | "AZFlyer" <millrML(at)aol.com> |
Kevin,
from the FWIW column...
Here's a pic of my solution. Not difficult if you have the trap door in.
They tell me this unit must be pretty close level with longerons and side to side.
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml(at)aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312175#312175
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kodak_camera_stuff_71_860.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airworthiness Cert Received |
To my friends on all the Matronics lists that have helped me in many ways
over the years.
Some of you I have met in person, so many that I have never met but have
been with me
through this project since 2002.
I just want to say thank you for the encouragement, help, sound advice, in
formation, photos, drawings, parts, ideas, techniques, web sites, lessons
learned, stories, debates, Scotchbrite advice,humor and especially the fr
iendships.
Many of you don't even know how much you've helped, but your contribution
and presence on the lists
have been a tremendous help.
Yesterday, I had my inspection completed and received my airworthiness cer
tificate. I'm surrounded by
many experienced pilots at Spadaro Airport in Long Island, NY to help me
through the next phase of this
adventure/dream/crazy idea. Thanks Matt Dralle for making it all happen he
re.
I especially want to thank these people from the lists.
Zenith-list- Zenith601 list- Zenith701801 list
Robert Pelland, Geoff Heap, George Race, Johann G(Iceland), Jon Croke,Chuc
k Deiterich, John Marzulli, Zed Smith, Larry Martin, Ben Haas, Gary Liming
, Tommy Walker, Larrt McFarland, Bud Spudis, Keith Ashcraft, Bill Naumuk,
Ben Rambler, Max Johnson, Ken Szewc, Gary Gower, David Downey, Mike Brown
, Frank Hinde, Scott Laughlin, Michel Therrien, Mark Townsend, Jeff Davids
on, Jay Bannister, Bill Steer, Craig Payne.
Kitfox-List
Noel Loveys
RotaxEngines-List
Roger Lee
Thom Riddle
Gilles Thesee
Ron Parigoris
Aeroelectric-List
Bob Nuckolls
Jeff Dalton
Vern Little
Brian K Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://www.701builder.com
Brian K Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://www.701builder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
| From: | "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net> |
I'm fabricating top and bottom fairings for my 601 XL. The airplane isn't finished
yet, but from an aerodynamic point, it is evident that the fairings should
help quite a bit. It doesn't take a huge amount of specialized skill, but does
take more time than I expected. I fastened 1" thick foam sheets (the foam that
the QB kit was packed in) to the airframe with double sided tape. That type
foam isn't the best for forms because it isn't very dense, but it was available
and I had no other use for it. Additional sheets were stuck to existing sheets
with double sided tape or small dabs of epoxy adhesive. The foam was shaped
with Stanley Sureform files, sandpaper, hot wire foam cutter, electric chainsaw,
etc. Irregularities, and gaps, were filled with modeling clay. Then, I coated
the foam with epoxy for stiffness. After that was cured, I covered it with
duct tape and made sure the duct tape was extended a few inches outside of the
fairing area so no epoxy would get on the skin. Epoxy doesn't stick to duct
tape, but some mold release on the tape helps with de-molding. Mold release can
be paste wax, or even spray on cooking oil, or Pledge furniture wax.
Cut the glass or carbon fiber cloth to shape leaving plenty of excess on the edges.
I put a coat of resin on the form using a small roller or brush. Lay the
cloth over the form and work the cloth into the epoxy on the surface. Use more
epoxy if you have to for wet through, but not too much. If you use a brush, cut
off about 1/3rd of the length of the bristles so they are stiffer. Push the
cloth into the epoxy with short vertical jabs called "stippling". There shouldn't
be so much resin that it puddles, and the weave should show. I used three
three layers of 6 oz/sq yd carbon fiber twill cloth. Glass cloth is less expensive,
but heavier and not as stiff. It's likely you can't make the layup in one
piece as it gets quite unwieldy. Overlap the separate pieces by about 1 1/2".
Leave the layup on the mold until the epoxy has fully cured. This might be
a couple of days. De-mold by starting on an edge by working a putty knife under
and edge and getting it lifted. At first it will appear to come off with difficulty,
but after some has broken loose, it's likely the part will fall off.
Making a part from a male mold as I've described will leave a somewhat uneven
and rough surface. Depending how you want to finish the fairing will determine
how it's made smooth. If painting, use a lightweight filler made from epoxy and
microballoons (glass beads). You could use lightweight polyester body filler
too. Then sand and paint. I made mine from carbon fiber cloth and intend to
leave it natural. I painted on another coat of epoxy to fill the weave and sanded
most of that off. Another coat of epoxy and more sanding using finer grit.
I'll finish with urethane automotive paint clear coats for UV protection with
sanding between coats.
Polyester resin could be used instead of epoxy. Epoxy doesn't shrink like polyester does, and epoxy is a much better adhesive than polyester. I used epoxy that is good to over well over 200 deg F since the top fairings will be out in the sun. I used epoxy system 2000 from Fiberglast. http://www.fibreglast.com/ They have hardeners in 20 min, 60 min, and 120 min setting time. Epoxy resins are available from other sources that will work too.
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312343#312343
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup2_166.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup1_149.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fillet_21_176.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing3_187.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing2_275.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingfairingform2_185.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Louis-
Kudos for a very good description of the process.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings
>
> I'm fabricating top and bottom fairings for my 601 XL. The airplane isn't
> finished yet, but from an aerodynamic point, it is evident that the
> fairings should help quite a bit. It doesn't take a huge amount of
> specialized skill, but does take more time than I expected. I fastened 1"
> thick foam sheets (the foam that the QB kit was packed in) to the airframe
> with double sided tape. That type foam isn't the best for forms because it
> isn't very dense, but it was available and I had no other use for it.
> Additional sheets were stuck to existing sheets with double sided tape or
> small dabs of epoxy adhesive. The foam was shaped with Stanley Sureform
> files, sandpaper, hot wire foam cutter, electric chainsaw, etc.
> Irregularities, and gaps, were filled with modeling clay. Then, I coated
> the foam with epoxy for stiffness. After that was cured, I covered it with
> duct tape and made sure the duct tape was extended a few inches outside of
> the fairing area so no epoxy would get on the skin. E!
> poxy doesn't stick to duct tape, but some mold release on the tape helps
> with de-molding. Mold release can be paste wax, or even spray on cooking
> oil, or Pledge furniture wax.
>
> Cut the glass or carbon fiber cloth to shape leaving plenty of excess on
> the edges. I put a coat of resin on the form using a small roller or
> brush. Lay the cloth over the form and work the cloth into the epoxy on
> the surface. Use more epoxy if you have to for wet through, but not too
> much. If you use a brush, cut off about 1/3rd of the length of the
> bristles so they are stiffer. Push the cloth into the epoxy with short
> vertical jabs called "stippling". There shouldn't be so much resin that it
> puddles, and the weave should show. I used three three layers of 6 oz/sq
> yd carbon fiber twill cloth. Glass cloth is less expensive, but heavier
> and not as stiff. It's likely you can't make the layup in one piece as it
> gets quite unwieldy. Overlap the separate pieces by about 1 1/2". Leave
> the layup on the mold until the epoxy has fully cured. This might be a
> couple of days. De-mold by starting on an edge by working a putty knife
> under and edge and getting it lifted. At first it will a!
> ppear to come off with difficulty, but after some has broken loose, it's
> likely the part will fall off. Making a part from a male mold as I've
> described will leave a somewhat uneven and rough surface. Depending how
> you want to finish the fairing will determine how it's made smooth. If
> painting, use a lightweight filler made from epoxy and microballoons
> (glass beads). You could use lightweight polyester body filler too. Then
> sand and paint. I made mine from carbon fiber cloth and intend to leave it
> natural. I painted on another coat of epoxy to fill the weave and sanded
> most of that off. Another coat of epoxy and more sanding using finer grit.
> I'll finish with urethane automotive paint clear coats for UV protection
> with sanding between coats.
>
> Polyester resin could be used instead of epoxy. Epoxy doesn't shrink like
> polyester does, and epoxy is a much better adhesive than polyester. I used
> epoxy that is good to over well over 200 deg F since the top fairings will
> be out in the sun. I used epoxy system 2000 from Fiberglast.
> http://www.fibreglast.com/ They have hardeners in 20 min, 60 min, and 120
> min setting time. Epoxy resins are available from other sources that will
> work too.
>
> --------
> Louis W. Ott
>
> 601XL beginner Quick Build
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312343#312343
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup2_166.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup1_149.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fillet_21_176.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing3_187.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing2_275.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingfairingform2_185.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
Louis,
Did you ever think of making a blow molded plastic part instead?
Given that this is not structural, that might be a way someone could
make these in some small quantity if the group is interested.
On 09/14/2010 5:39 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>
> Louis-
> Kudos for a very good description of the process.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:21 PM
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings
>
>
>>
>> I'm fabricating top and bottom fairings for my 601 XL. The airplane
>> isn't finished yet, but from an aerodynamic point, it is evident that
>> the fairings should help quite a bit. It doesn't take a huge amount
>> of specialized skill, but does take more time than I expected. I
>> fastened 1" thick foam sheets (the foam that the QB kit was packed
>> in) to the airframe with double sided tape. That type foam isn't the
>> best for forms because it isn't very dense, but it was available and
>> I had no other use for it. Additional sheets were stuck to existing
>> sheets with double sided tape or small dabs of epoxy adhesive. The
>> foam was shaped with Stanley Sureform files, sandpaper, hot wire foam
>> cutter, electric chainsaw, etc. Irregularities, and gaps, were filled
>> with modeling clay. Then, I coated the foam with epoxy for stiffness.
>> After that was cured, I covered it with duct tape and made sure the
>> duct tape was extended a few inches outside of the fairing area so no
>> epoxy would get on the skin. E!
>> poxy doesn't stick to duct tape, but some mold release on the tape
>> helps with de-molding. Mold release can be paste wax, or even spray
>> on cooking oil, or Pledge furniture wax.
>>
>> Cut the glass or carbon fiber cloth to shape leaving plenty of excess
>> on the edges. I put a coat of resin on the form using a small roller
>> or brush. Lay the cloth over the form and work the cloth into the
>> epoxy on the surface. Use more epoxy if you have to for wet through,
>> but not too much. If you use a brush, cut off about 1/3rd of the
>> length of the bristles so they are stiffer. Push the cloth into the
>> epoxy with short vertical jabs called "stippling". There shouldn't be
>> so much resin that it puddles, and the weave should show. I used
>> three three layers of 6 oz/sq yd carbon fiber twill cloth. Glass
>> cloth is less expensive, but heavier and not as stiff. It's likely
>> you can't make the layup in one piece as it gets quite unwieldy.
>> Overlap the separate pieces by about 1 1/2". Leave the layup on the
>> mold until the epoxy has fully cured. This might be a couple of days.
>> De-mold by starting on an edge by working a putty knife under and
>> edge and getting it lifted. At first it will a!
>> ppear to come off with difficulty, but after some has broken loose,
>> it's likely the part will fall off. Making a part from a male mold as
>> I've described will leave a somewhat uneven and rough surface.
>> Depending how you want to finish the fairing will determine how it's
>> made smooth. If painting, use a lightweight filler made from epoxy
>> and microballoons (glass beads). You could use lightweight polyester
>> body filler too. Then sand and paint. I made mine from carbon fiber
>> cloth and intend to leave it natural. I painted on another coat of
>> epoxy to fill the weave and sanded most of that off. Another coat of
>> epoxy and more sanding using finer grit. I'll finish with urethane
>> automotive paint clear coats for UV protection with sanding between
>> coats.
>>
>> Polyester resin could be used instead of epoxy. Epoxy doesn't shrink
>> like polyester does, and epoxy is a much better adhesive than
>> polyester. I used epoxy that is good to over well over 200 deg F
>> since the top fairings will be out in the sun. I used epoxy system
>> 2000 from Fiberglast. http://www.fibreglast.com/ They have hardeners
>> in 20 min, 60 min, and 120 min setting time. Epoxy resins are
>> available from other sources that will work too.
>>
>> --------
>> Louis W. Ott
>>
>> 601XL beginner Quick Build
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312343#312343
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup2_166.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fairing_layup1_149.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_fillet_21_176.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing3_187.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingtopfairing2_275.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rightwingfairingform2_185.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 601XL fiberglass wingroot fairings |
| From: | "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net> |
I have thought of making female molds from the fairings I have and make CF layups
from those. The finished surface would be a lot smoother and they would be
lighter weight. I guess blow molds could be made too. I'd have to think a while
about how to do that. I think it would just take too much time to make it worthwhile.
I've been through that making some rear fender molds for my car, and
that was a lot simpler. I have sold a few sets. Right now, I have to get this
little 601 finished and flying. :D
http://www.performance928.com/cgi-bin/page_display.cgi?page_nav_name=rearfenderuir&pass_parent=1128
http://www.performance928.com/cgi-bin/page_display.cgi?page_nav_name=fendermoldM9o
[quote="mhubel"]Louis,
Did you ever think of making a blow molded plastic part instead?
Given that this is not structural, that might be a way someone could
make these in some small quantity if the group is interested.
On 09/14/2010 5:39 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>
>
> Louis-
> Kudos for a very good description of the process.
>
> Bill
> ---
:D :D
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312494#312494
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Turnbuckle Location |
| From: | "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> |
Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my upper
elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of my y control
stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass saddle attaching
directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to adjust. Doesn't sound
like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312615#312615
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Belcher <Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Location |
On Thursday 16 September 2010 08:44:50 you wrote:
>
>
> Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my
> upper elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom
> of my y control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass
> saddle attaching directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to
> adjust. Doesn't sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
I don't have the "Y" stick, but the turnbuckles are just as awkward for the
dual stick design.
I did pretty much what you're suggesting, and also moved some of the other
turnbuckles. It seems to me that the turnbuckles, and perhaps a few other
things, are not located where they can be adjusted as easily as is desirable.
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
=======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Location |
| From: | jaybannist(at)cs.com |
Mike,
That is where I put mine. It only makes good sense, for the reasons you
point out. . I forgot to cotter the castle nut at the bottom connection
in the arm rest tunnel. It was impossible for me to install it and I pla
nned to put an access panel in the floor panel. Doug Eady came to my resc
ue and installed the cotter from above. It still seemed impossible for me
. I also made the rudder fairing saddle removable.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 8:44 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Turnbuckle Location
om>
Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my
upper
elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of my
y
control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass saddle
attaching directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to adjust. Do
esn't
sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312615#312615
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leroy Wheeler" <flyboy3847(at)onecommail.com> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckle Location |
That's the way we did it. We've got 100 hours on our 601HD without a hint
of trouble.
Leroy Wheeler
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Turnbuckle Location
On Thursday 16 September 2010 08:44:50 you wrote:
>
>
> Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my
> upper elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom
> of my y control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass
> saddle attaching directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to
> adjust. Doesn't sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
I don't have the "Y" stick, but the turnbuckles are just as awkward for the
dual stick design.
I did pretty much what you're suggesting, and also moved some of the other
turnbuckles. It seems to me that the turnbuckles, and perhaps a few other
things, are not located where they can be adjusted as easily as is
desirable.
=======================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS,MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
General Radio Telephone Certificate
Instrument Rated Pilot
Retired Aerospace Technical Manager
=======================================
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
14:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Location |
| From: | trainnut01(at)aol.com |
I put mine in the rear fuselage,as close to the fairleads as possible with
out interfering with anything. They are all accessible through the bottom h
atch.
Carroll
-----Original Message-----
From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 9:48 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Turnbuckle Location
m>
Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my up
per
elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of my y
control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass saddle
attaching directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to adjust. Doe
sn't
sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312615#312615
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Steer <steerr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Location |
That's what I did and I'm glad I did it since I've had to adjust the
elevator control twice now. I used a clip-locking turnbuckle there -
much easier than the ones that use safety wire.
Bill
On 9/16/2010 9:44 AM, MHerder wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "MHerder"
>
> Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my upper
elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of my y
control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass saddle attaching
directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to adjust. Doesn't sound
like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckle Location |
>> Doesn't sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
I've got some turnbuckles installed that would be difficult to impossible t
o use the safety wire on - for instance at the front of rudder pedals and i
n the center console area for the elevator that you mentioned. I'd highly r
ecommend going with the clip locking turnbuckles over the safety wire ones
- easy to adjust no matter what the location sort of thing and far quicker/
easier to deal with in general.
I personally don't like the adjustable bits of the plane on the "outside",
but I can't see any reason not to - just make sure if the cable shakes or t
he distance it will be traveling doesn't cause it to run/catch on anything.
Don
601HDS - 150 Hours - Jabiru 3300A
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steer
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Turnbuckle Location
That's what I did and I'm glad I did it since I've had to adjust the elevat
or control twice now. I used a clip-locking turnbuckle there - much easier
than the ones that use safety wire.
Bill
On 9/16/2010 9:44 AM, MHerder wrote:
m>
Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my up
per elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of
my y control stick. I'd like to put it under my removable fiberglass saddl
e attaching directly to the upper horn to make it much easier to adjust. D
oesn't sound like fun trying to safety wire in that tight space.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Location |
Mike,
I had the same concerns. I installed my upper elevator turnbuckle where you proposed.
30 hours on the plane and no problems.
Jerry
601HDS 912 N316JL
---- MHerder wrote:
>
> Is there any reason I can't reverse the location of the turnbuckle on my upper
elevator control cable. The drawings show it located at the bottom of my y control
stick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kenhaslett" <kenhaslett(at)gmail.com> |
Folks
I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could be
controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern glider.
Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force to
make a turn.
Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron bushings,
bellcrank and supporting ribs.
Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
Any help would be appreciated
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable tensions |
Ken,
It would seem that from the flutter analysis that 12 pounds tension
on the ailerons was determined to be near the edge of stability. As I
remember, it was just inside the stability window but with little
margin. Cable tensions that low may have contributed to some of the wing
failures that caused so many problems. I would not go anywhere near
there anymore.
I have always had the tensions set to the current (post update)
values so I can't say much about before and after but I can say that
with a bit of lubrication on all contact points, I find the ailerons to
have very low friction, nothing like a 172 "truck". I will say that
before I added the lubrication, it was a bit sticky. If you haven't
greased all points where cables rub on nylon and oiled the pins at the
cable ends, you might find that doing so will help.
I do find some friction in the rudder but that is probably from the
tension of the bungy cord on the nose wheel, not a part of the update.
The additional friction from the cable tension pulling on the nose
assembly probably does make it worse. I have some ideas on how to reduce
this but it is not so bad as to be a major problem in my case.
N708HU
Jabiru 3300
59 hours
On 09/21/2010 10:10 AM, kenhaslett wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "kenhaslett"
>
> Folks
>
> I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
>
> Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could
be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern glider.
Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force
to make a turn.
>
> Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
>
> I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron bushings,
bellcrank and supporting ribs.
>
> Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
>
> Any help would be appreciated
>
> Ken
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable tensions |
Hi, Mark and Ken,
Using the SWAG method, it sounds to me like Ken may have inadvertently set his
tensions too high. I seem to recall that the nosewheel needs to be fully extended
to get the rudder cable tensions right, but his issue is with aileron and
elevator control response. I have no idea what equipment was used to set the tensions,
but on my tensiometer, it's pretty easy to look at the wrong scale!
And in my conversations with the folks at Zenith after the German GVT, they said
that they really had to work hard to induce flutter with aileron cable tensions
below 5 lbs - and this is without any counterweights.
My advice to Ken would be to confirm the accuracy of his tensiometer, make sure
he's using the 1/8 cable scale, raise the nosewheel off of the deck when checking
tensions, and try somewhere between 20 to 25 pounds. This is what has served
us well on several Zenith 601s, and it shouldn't be a risky proposition assuming
he's gone ahead and installed the aileron balance weights.
Having the right tensions still shouldn't result in controls that are hard to move.
Just my humble opinion. YMMV.
Rick Lindstrom
First Light Aviation Grp.
Home of CC#18!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
>Sent: Sep 21, 2010 2:56 PM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Cable tensions
>
>
> Ken,
> It would seem that from the flutter analysis that 12 pounds tension
>on the ailerons was determined to be near the edge of stability. As I
>remember, it was just inside the stability window but with little
>margin. Cable tensions that low may have contributed to some of the wing
>failures that caused so many problems. I would not go anywhere near
>there anymore.
> I have always had the tensions set to the current (post update)
>values so I can't say much about before and after but I can say that
>with a bit of lubrication on all contact points, I find the ailerons to
>have very low friction, nothing like a 172 "truck". I will say that
>before I added the lubrication, it was a bit sticky. If you haven't
>greased all points where cables rub on nylon and oiled the pins at the
>cable ends, you might find that doing so will help.
> I do find some friction in the rudder but that is probably from the
>tension of the bungy cord on the nose wheel, not a part of the update.
>The additional friction from the cable tension pulling on the nose
>assembly probably does make it worse. I have some ideas on how to reduce
>this but it is not so bad as to be a major problem in my case.
>
>N708HU
>Jabiru 3300
>59 hours
>
>
>On 09/21/2010 10:10 AM, kenhaslett wrote:
>> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "kenhaslett"
>>
>> Folks
>>
>> I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2 years
awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european register.
I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am very unhappy
with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
>>
>> Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft could
be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of the control
column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a modern
glider. Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a lot of force
to make a turn.
>>
>> Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but once
again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous iteration.
>>
>> I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron
bushings, bellcrank and supporting ribs.
>>
>> Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Mark Hubelbank
>NorthEast Monitoring
>2 Clock Tower Place
>Suite 555
>Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
>mhubel(at)nemon.com
>978-443-3955
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
Ken,
I use 15 to 25 lbs max cable tension and have never had a problem with loss
of tension as result. I also think you do damage to the light pivot points
when you overload them.
Flutter is not the problem and never has been. If you go much tighter, the
cables will perpetually be undoing tension.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenhaslett
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Cable tensions
-->
Folks
I've just got my Bird back into the air after being grounded for nearly 2
years awaiting the 'powers that B' coming up with a fix. I'm on a european
register. I set the aileron and rudder cable tensions as per Zenair but am
very unhappy with the result. The aircraft feels heavier than a C182.
Before the upgrade my aileron cables were set at 12lbs and the aircraft
could be controlled very easily using my index finger resting in the 'Y' of
the control column. The aircraft had the same feel and response to that of a
modern glider. Now I have to hold the control column in my hand and use a
lot of force to make a turn.
Same with the elevator. The trim is not as sensitive, not a bad thing, but
once again requiring a lot more effort in comparison with the previous
iteration.
I'm worried that the tension is putting significant loadings on the aileron
bushings, bellcrank and supporting ribs.
Anyone else found similar problems and have they found a way round it.
Any help would be appreciated
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313205#313205
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly Meiste <kelly(at)meiste.com> |
601 HD Tri-Gear, 160 hours TT
Interested parties please email me off line at kelly(at)meiste.com
Thank you,
Kelly Meiste
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 601XL Corvair combo for sale $10,000 |
Me and my wife are getting a divorce and I am having to sell everything.
I have a 601XL that has been completed to past the quick build stage. It
has dual sticks, strobes, etc. 12 gal tanks installed. I also have a
completed corvair engine with all WW FWF components except the middle cowling.
It has the nose cone though. Mount, exhaust, new carb, intake,
distributor, everything is there. It has a Warp drive prop with it. I am going
to
try and sell it for what I owe on the 2 and that is $10,000. If anyone is
interested, please email me off list. You can call me at 541-420-8037 and
leave a message if you want. I work graveyards and I am going through a
tough time, so I will call when I can. The engine is top notch as well as the
construction on the airframe. I am located in Central Oregon. I have an
18 X 10 trailer that I will through in if someone takes the bird. It is a
good double axle trailer. Let me know.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Zodiac CH 650 Webinar, hosted by EAA: Thu, Oct 14, 2010 |
Listers, in case you haven't seen this yet.
I copied from http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/update.html
*Zodiac CH 650 Webinar, hosted by
EAA*:
Join brothers Mathieu Heintz and Sebastien Heintz as they discuss the
new Zodiac
CH 650 <http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/ch650/index.html> light sport
airplane in this live web-based seminar, as they discuss the history of the
Zodiac CH 601 series design by Chris
Heintz<http://www.zenithair.com/c-heintz.html> as
well as the future of the affordable easy-to-build CH 650. Live audio and
slide presentation, moderated by EAA. Participants can ask questions. Sign
up now - Space is Limited .
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flight training in a Zodiac. N601BK finally flies. |
| From: | "wa7dvd" <wa7dvd(at)comcast.net> |
After way too many years I finally had DAR Tom Giehart come out and give Zodiac
N601BK his approval.
I quickly found that the insurance company wanted 5 hours in a 601 before the would
cover me. I had been flying a sport cruiser but they would not accept that.
I contacted Paul Hamilton in Carson City NV and scheduled time with him in their
SLSA 601XLi. (Paul(at)SportAviationCenter.com 775:747-0175) I was not too excited
about another 1100 mile car trip, but it turned out to be one of the most
fun times I have had in many years. Paul made the 5 hours some of the most
enjoyable flight instruction I have ever had. N601ZL, their XL, is a delight
to fly and the Carson City area is as beautiful as any place I have ever flown.
With Paul's endorsement in my log the insurance was happy. So, Thursday evening
Zodiac 601XLb N601BK made its first flight over Bountiful Utah. The plane feels
nearly identical to the SLSA I flew earlier in the week.
Thanks to everyone here on the list. I do not post very often, but I look at the
list daily and many of you have provided help for which you have never received
credit.
Thanks to Paul's help, I have had no bad surprises in the first 3 flights.
-Bruce-
--------
BK Johnson
Zodiac 601XLb
Jabiru 3300a
N601BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314498#314498
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/750_137.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/649_125.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/622_386.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/561_258.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Flight training in a Zodiac. N601BK finally flies. |
Congratulations!!!
Jerry
601HDS 912 37.5 hrs
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:15 AM, wa7dvd wrote:
>
> After way too many years I finally had DAR Tom Giehart come out and
> give Zodiac N601BK his approval. I quickly found that the insurance
> company wanted 5 hours in a 601 before the would cover me. I had been
> flying a sport cruiser but they would not accept that. I contacted
> Paul Hamilton in Carson City NV and scheduled time with him in their
> SLSA 601XLi. (Paul(at)SportAviationCenter.com 775:747-0175) I was not
> too excited about another 1100 mile car trip, but it turned out to be
> one of the most fun times I have had in many years. Paul made the 5
> hours some of the most enjoyable flight instruction I have ever had.
> N601ZL, their XL, is a delight to fly and the Carson City area is as
> beautiful as any place I have ever flown.
> With Paul's endorsement in my log the insurance was happy. So,
> Thursday evening Zodiac 601XLb N601BK made its first flight over
> Bountiful Utah. The plane feels nearly identical to the SLSA I flew
> earlier in the week.
> Thanks to everyone here on the list. I do not post very often, but I
> look at the list daily and many of you have provided help for which
> you have never received credit.
> Thanks to Paul's help, I have had no bad surprises in the first 3
> flights.
>
> -Bruce-
>
> --------
> BK Johnson
> Zodiac 601XLb
> Jabiru 3300a
> N601BK
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314498#314498
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/750_137.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/649_125.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/622_386.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/561_258.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
| Subject: | Live Chat Tonight |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Strobe set available for sale |
I have an Aeroflash 156-0039 nav/strobe kit I am putting up for
sale. It has about 40 hours of operating time on it since new. The new
price is $375, I will sell it to anyone in the group for $150. If there
is no interest, it goes up on Ebay.
This is a set of two double flash power supplies (12V) (156-0011)
and the matching combination nav/strobe lights for both wing tips.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
| Subject: | Chat Room Tonight |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | VideoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Facet fuel pumps and Andair valve |
I have two new Facet "40108" fuel pumps for sale. I purchased them from
Aircraft Spruce.
_http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php_
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php)
They have never been used or installed. New price is over $40. I will
sell them for $30/ea.
I also have an Andair Fuel Selector Valve (FS20X4)
_http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fs20tYPE4.php_
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fs20tYPE4.php)
It is also brand new...never installed. New price is over $250. I will
sell it for $200.
If you would like all three units and I can ship them in one box, I will
sell the two pumps AND the valve for $250....and I will pay the shipping
(continental US).
Email me at _videoflyer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:videoflyer(at)aol.com) . Please put
the words "Fuel pump" or "Fuel valve" in the subject line.
Dave Harms
Waterloo, Iowa 50702
videoflyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com> |
| Subject: | Strobe set available for sale |
This has been sold. Thank you for the interest.
On 10/07/2010 6:17 PM, Mark Hubelbank wrote:
>
> I have an Aeroflash 156-0039 nav/strobe kit I am putting up for
> sale. It has about 40 hours of operating time on it since new. The new
> price is $375, I will sell it to anyone in the group for $150. If
> there is no interest, it goes up on Ebay.
>
> This is a set of two double flash power supplies (12V) (156-0011)
> and the matching combination nav/strobe lights for both wing tips.
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ray allen flap position sender indicator |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Gang
which Ray Allen flap sender is used for the flaps on the XL?
RAC POS-5 or the POS -12
which RAC indicator can i be used for ?
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315790#315790
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ray allen flap position sender indicator |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Chris,
I cannot answer specifically which position sender will work best because I do
not use one at all. A quick glance out to the left gives me all the indication
I need. I have not missed being without a flap indication instrument.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
150+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315793#315793
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | ray allen flap position sender indicator |
Hi Chris,
I bought one of the Ray Allen sensors but I haven't installed it yet.
I think most of the sensors can be made to work. You need some sort of
voltmeter with a modified face to reflect flap position instead of volts.
Then you need a variable resistor (such as the Ray Allen sensor) and you
need to figure a way to install it so flap motion makes it move. This might
be some sort of bracket to put it in a good position and a way to attach it
to the flap control arm.
The electric circuit should have a dividing resistor (perhaps from Radio
Shack). This allows the sensor to actually change the output voltage when
the arm moves. Then you need a fuse or other current limit device to
prevent fire or damage if there is a short circuit. When it is all
assembled you can calibrate the reading for the desired marks on the face of
the indicator.
I scribbled up a possible electrical circuit for this function and copied it
below. It needs some more design work before you can install it in your
plane.
First you need to decide how much current to run through the sensor in the
maximum case. This determines the size of the meter needed and the resistor
value. A good place to start might be 50 milliamps. Then obtain a meter
that is at least that large - perhaps a 50 mA sensor calls for a 100 mV
meter. If you use this kind of current then a 1 amp fuse might work just
fine (you don't want the fuse too close to the actual current used - just
small enough to trip when a short circuit happens and huge current is called
for).
There are many sources for meters and resistors. Wire should probably be
aircraft grade stuff, but with this kind of current the size is not
important. I limit wire to 22 AWG as the smallest choice for mechanical
reasons.
Ohms law: I = E/R can be used to solve for all the current voltage and
resistance values needed. I is current in amps, E is voltage in volts, R is
resistance in ohms.
If you get stuck on any of the steps please feel free to contact me offline.
(Sorry for the tutorial post. I used to design stuff like this, and a lot
more complicated stuff, for a living many years ago).
Paul
Camas, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris
Sinfield
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:32 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: ray allen flap position sender indicator
Gang
which Ray Allen flap sender is used for the flaps on the XL?
RAC POS-5 or the POS -12
which RAC indicator can i be used for ?
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315790#315790
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Free B model designation Decals for the 601xl |
| From: | "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Does anyone know exactly where we need to register our interest in getting the
Free B model designation Decals for the 601xl on the Zenith site???? Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315936#315936
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ray allen flap position sender indicator |
| From: | "rgeese" <rgeese1(at)columbus.rr.com> |
Chris--
I don't know what Paul is talking about, but it is very simple to do what you want
to do. I used the RAC POS-12 sensor on the flap mechanism and a Ray Allen
LED indicator on the panel and it works great. You can see how I did it at this
site:
http://cid-2c08001814b26710.photos.live.com/browse.aspx/Ron%5E4s%20601XL
Check out photos 188 and 228. Keep in mind that I have the "original" type of flap
motor mechanism. The sensor is actually measuring the up-down movement of
the arm, but of course translates into the flap position.
Let me know if you want some closeup photos of the sensor connection.
email me at: rgeese1-at-columbus.rr.com
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315938#315938
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | xl <xl(at)prosody.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Free B model designation Decals for the 601xl |
http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/b-model-designation-for-zodiac
A decal sheet is now available from Zenith Aircraft Company: to order your
free decal sheet (as shown below), go to http://decal.kit.aero and
complete the online request form. Decals are only available to
builders/owners who have completed installation of the Upgrade Package.
Joe E @ BFI
N633Z, CH601XLB
650 hours
http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, Thruster87 wrote:
> Does anyone know exactly where we need to register our interest in getting
> the Free B model designation Decals for the 601xl on the Zenith
> site???? Cheers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ - List Fund Raiser Kickoff! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions
of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO
advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack
of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages
and web site pages including:
* Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
* Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
* Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search
* Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience
that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and
not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
* Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
* Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
* Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-8 Builder and Flyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | November List Fund Raiser |
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, they will instantly cease to receive these
Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple.
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware
and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes
to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric
bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered
on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which
allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept
exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet
these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages,
when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous
public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for
my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com> |
http://www.mykitairplane.com
Click on the Chat Room link at the top of the page.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pensinger" <jim(at)pensinger.net> |
Does anyone have a pattern to make a cockpit cover or a source for a
lightweight nylon one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Pensinger" <jim(at)pensinger.net> |
Does anyone have a pattern to make a cockpit cover or a source for a
lightweight nylon one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> |
Jim,
Take a look at Bruce's Custom Covers. I'm happy with mine. URL is:
http://www.aircraftcovers.com/index.php?cPath=1_5_723_724&tplDir=fallback
Jeff D
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Pensinger
Does anyone have a pattern to make a cockpit cover or a source for a
lightweight nylon one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Cover |
Thanks Jeff
July 11, 2010 - November 08, 2010
Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-ao