Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-ap
November 08, 2010 - March 20, 2011
Zenith601-Archive.digest.vol-ap
November 08, 2010 - March 20, 2011
I just downloaded the pdf file.
Looks good. Thanks for reference.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2010 7:59 am
Subject: Canopy Cover
Jim,
Take a look at Bruce's CustomCovers. I'm happy with mine. URL is:
http://www.aircraftcovers.com/index.php?cPath=1_5_723_724&tplDir=fallb
ack
Jeff D
From:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-zenith601-list
-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Pensinger
Does anyone have a pattern to make a cockpit cover or asource for a lightw
eight nylon one?
========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Live Chat Room Tonight
Date: Nov 08, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "Mack Kreizenbeck" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Cover
Date: Nov 08, 2010
Contact the Duggers @ Quality Sport Planes in Cloverdale, California.
Www.Qualitysportplanes.com <http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/>
Mack
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wanted First Flight Test Tables/Check-offs
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 08, 2010
Hi Would anyone have a print out of a check-list for the first flight testing.Weather
permitting will start this weekend.I have copies of the FAA and Chris
Heintz first flight textbooks but wanted easy to tick checklist during flight.Getting
my local CFI to do the first flights. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318649#318649
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A
Contribution Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
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of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
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Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
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or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wanted First Flight Test Tables/Check-offs
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2010
Alan, Here is what I used for my first flight. I did not fill in all the blanks
while I was flying since I had a ground crew who could write them down for me.
My prime fill-in-the-blanks fields were stall speed and my final approach
speed, the other blocks were to remind me to scan the instruments looking for
gross errors. That is important since a first flight is a sensory overload experience.
I have a Dynon D-180 that logged all of the data for post-flight analysis.
Good luck to you and your CFI!!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Upgraded 3/19/10
160+ hours and climbing!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318725#318725
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1st_flight_test_card_356.xls
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2010
From: Albert Rupp <a.f.rupp(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Wanted First Flight Test Tables/Check-offs
Alan, In WW's 2009 Corvair Flight Ops Manual Dr. Andy Elliott has an outline of
first flight tests I believe are very comprehensive and efficient.
It would give you all the flight information necessary to know the flight
characteristics of your airplane, that I would want for a POM, in a very
complete and compact format.
Al Rupp
601XL Corvair powered
________________________________
From: Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Tue, November 9, 2010 2:20:05 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wanted First Flight Test Tables/Check-offs
Hi Would anyone have a print out of a check-list for the first flight
testing.Weather permitting will start this weekend.I have copies of the FAA and
Chris Heintz first flight textbooks but wanted easy to tick checklist during
flight.Getting my local CFI to do the first flights. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318649#318649
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wanted First Flight Test Tables/Check-offs
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 09, 2010
Thanks to everyone, just what I was looking for Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318760#318760
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron gap seal
From: "mhubel" <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2010
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how much drag
it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller gaps have been covered
to reduce drag with significant results. Any reason it won't work on the
CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Date: Nov 11, 2010
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane
as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily.
There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing
some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a
tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how
much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller
gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any
reason it won't work on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2010
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit a
speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130
MPH is very full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect better.
When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138
MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
> Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
> would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean
> plane as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the
> lily. There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was
> arguing some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle,
> it's a tractor."
> Paul R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* mhubel
> *To:* zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> >
>
> Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
> how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
> smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant
> results. Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
>
> --------
> Mark Hubelbank
> N708HU
> CH601XL
> Jabiru 3300
> Rotec TBI 40 carb
> Sensenich ground adj prop.
> 41 hr TAF
> Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous
> ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features
> Chat,
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via
> the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
> _=============
>
>
> *
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Aileron gap seal
Date: Nov 11, 2010
>> When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138
MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
I've actually been trying to wrap my head around the performance numbers, e
tc.
Here are a few things that I think might explain lower performance numbers:
1- At ~7,500 feet (not sure if this is density or indicated, but my gue
ss would be density), 100% power is equivalent to 75% power on engines with
out turbos. As such, WOT at 7,500 feet should be the approximately the same
as testing at sea level at 75% power???
2- All numbers giving by ZAC are given at Sea Level. As such, you need
to convert your Indicated Numbers at test altitude to True (i.e. TAS) to ge
t a better feel for if you are meeting spec.
3- Van's publishes their numbers based on flying at 7,500'. As such, th
ey have a much better reputation of folks getting about the numbers expecte
d. ZAC publishes numbers based on Sea Level (density not indicated) which m
ost people can't fly at in the real world to test.
With that aside, I would definitely look at wheel pants before messing with
gap seals and the like if you are looking to gain some extra speed.
I've cleaned up my 601HDS fairly well although there are still some areas t
hat need improvement and while trying to beat an RV-6A home (I know silly g
ame!), I flew WOT at ~3,500/4,500 feet and was getting about 155 MPH TAS an
d about 140/145 MPH ground speed with a slight head wind. And yes, I lost t
he race, but almost won as I flew through Class B and he flew around.
Thanks,
Don Honabach
601HDS ~150 Hours
Jabiru 3300A.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hubelbank
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit a spe
ed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it, getting m
uch above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130 MPH is very
full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect better. Whe
n I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138 MPH) i
n cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am expe
riencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose would b
e to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane as is, bu
t putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily. There's an old C
hris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing some nitpicky constru
ction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
bel(at)nemon.com>>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how much d
rag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller gaps have
been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any reason it won't w
ork on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
http://www.aeroelectric.com/ " sp; *thebuilder="" s=""
bookstore="">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, <http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=h
ttp://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://for
ums.matronics.com<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
_=============
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Date: Nov 11, 2010
It is a pretty clean plane, and wheel pants would help, but your prop
pitch has a lot to do with it, also. Generally, you get either good
climbouts or good cruise, but rarely both with a fixed-pitch prop.
There's a ton of talent and experience on this net, and I'm sure
somebody will have your engine/prop combo, and has probably dealt with
the problem. I think there's general agreement that wheelpants will give
you some additional knots, and a few tweaks, assuming you have a
ground-adjustable prop, might very well do it for you. Frankly, I'm
envious of anyone whose plane is done. Whenever I get done, I may name
it "Great Pyramid", or "Great Wall", or anything else that took years,
and years, and years, and.... well, you get the idea. Hang in there.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hubelbank<mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit
a speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130
MPH is very full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect
better. When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120
knots (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com
wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane
as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily.
There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing
some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a
tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel<mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com>
To:
zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant results.
Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875>
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat,
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via the
Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_=============
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2010
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Don,
I do expect to put the wheel pants on first but I expected that
this gap idea would take a long time to "hatch".
For what it is worth, I have tried working on the prop pitch and
always correct for TAS.
I know that even the book numbers on production aircraft can be
slightly optimistic but I am wondering just how much of a stretch the
numbers published by ZAC are.
On 11/11/2010 3:06 PM, Don Honabach wrote:
>
> >> When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots
> (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
>
> I've actually been trying to wrap my head around the performance
> numbers, etc.
>
> Here are a few things that I think might explain lower performance
> numbers:
>
> 1-At ~7,500 feet (not sure if this is density or indicated, but my
> guess would be density), 100% power is equivalent to 75% power on
> engines without turbos. As such, WOT at 7,500 feet should be the
> approximately the same as testing at sea level at 75% power???
>
> 2-All numbers giving by ZAC are given at Sea Level. As such, you need
> to convert your Indicated Numbers at test altitude to True (i.e. TAS)
> to get a better feel for if you are meeting spec.
>
> 3-Van's publishes their numbers based on flying at 7,500'. As such,
> they have a much better reputation of folks getting about the numbers
> expected. ZAC publishes numbers based on Sea Level (density not
> indicated) which most people can't fly at in the real world to test.
>
> With that aside, I would definitely look at wheel pants before messing
> with gap seals and the like if you are looking to gain some extra speed.
>
> I've cleaned up my 601HDS fairly well although there are still some
> areas that need improvement and while trying to beat an RV-6A home (I
> know silly game!), I flew WOT at ~3,500/4,500 feet and was getting
> about 155 MPH TAS and about 140/145 MPH ground speed with a slight
> head wind. And yes, I lost the race, but almost won as I flew through
> Class B and he flew around.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don Honabach
>
> 601HDS ~150 Hours
>
> Jabiru 3300A.
>
> *From:*owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> Hubelbank
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:13 AM
> *To:* zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> Paul,
> Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit
> a speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it,
> getting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above
> 130 MPH is very full throttle.
> Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect
> better. When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120
> knots (138 MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
> Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
> experiencing?
>
> On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com
> wrote:
>
> Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose
> would be to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean
> plane as is, but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the
> lily. There's an old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was
> arguing some nitpicky construction point: "It's not a space shuttle,
> it's a tractor."
>
> Paul R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*mhubel
>
> *To:*zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> *Sent:*Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
>
> *Subject:*Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
>
> >
>
> Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see
> how much drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much
> smaller gaps have been covered to reduce drag with significant
> results. Any reason it won't work on the CH601?
>
> --------
> Mark Hubelbank
> N708HU
> CH601XL
> Jabiru 3300
> Rotec TBI 40 carb
> Sensenich ground adj prop.
> 41 hr TAF
> Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
>
>
> link="" free="" title="http://www.aeroelectric.com/"
> sp; *thebuilder="" s="" bookstore="">http://www.matronics.com/c
> Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle,
> List nbsp; Features Chat,
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matnbsp; via
> the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
> _=============
>
>
>
>
> * *
> * *
>
>
> --
> Mark Hubelbank
> NorthEast Monitoring
> 2 Clock Tower Place
> Suite 555
> Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
> mhubel(at)nemon.com
> 978-443-3955
> * *
> *<; the Contribution link below to find out more about*
> www.aeroelectriuilder's Bookstore
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>www.buildersboobuiltHELP
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.homebuilthelp.com
> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
> *
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
From: "Thruster87" <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: Nov 11, 2010
Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my CFI
:D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see the aircraft
up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319086#319086
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Date: Nov 12, 2010
Well done Alan,
Nice to see another in Aussie.
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87
Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my
CFI :D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see the
aircraft up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319086#319086
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
From: "Ianrat" <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Date: Nov 12, 2010
Well done Alan. We still have a little way to go yet on ours.
Ianrat
Ch601xl
Brisbane Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319092#319092
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2010
> I expected that this gap idea would take a long time to "hatch".
A quick way to test would require clean surface, duct tape, and thin plastic (mylar).
Attach and go flying for a quick test of the numbers. Use the good duct
tape...
I think the wheel pants, wing fairings and changing the rear turtle deck would
have the most impact on speed after getting the wing/stabilizer incidence and
prop set right.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319095#319095
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2010
Congratulations Alan,
5 years and just maybe this spring for me.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319096#319096
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mack Kreizenbeck" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Date: Nov 12, 2010
Congrats from Idaho!
A big job is now behind you.
Go and enjoy the fruits of your labors.
Blue skies ahead!
Mack
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Date: Nov 12, 2010
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Big congratulations, Alan !!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Fri, Nov 12, 2010 12:32 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
>
Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my
CFI
:D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see the air
craft
up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319086#319086
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2010
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
Well done Alan. Good luck with your phase 1 testing.
Terry
>Another kit built Zenith 601xlB flew on its' maiden flight today with my
>CFI :D at the controls.After 3yrs build time I was most excited to see
>the aircraft up up and away and return with a beautifull landing. Cheers Alan
>
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2010
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Ron,
When I get back from some business trips, I just might try that.
On 11/12/2010 6:41 AM, Ron Lendon wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon"
>
>
>> I expected that this gap idea would take a long time to "hatch".
>
> A quick way to test would require clean surface, duct tape, and thin plastic
(mylar). Attach and go flying for a quick test of the numbers. Use the good
duct tape...
>
> I think the wheel pants, wing fairings and changing the rear turtle deck would
have the most impact on speed after getting the wing/stabilizer incidence and
prop set right.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
> Corvair Engine Prints:
> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319095#319095
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution...
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Nov 13, 2010
Allan
well done.. what were the comments from the CFI who flew it? what was his impression?
Give me a call when you can
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319270#319270
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith 601xlB has first flight today
From: "wa7dvd" <wa7dvd(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 13, 2010
Congratulations Alan for an outstanding achievement. I look forward to seeing
some photos when you have a chance.
-Bruce-
Salt Lake City, UT
--------
BK Johnson
Zodiac 601XLb
Jabiru 3300a
N601BK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319299#319299
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Nov 14, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Flap Switch Wiring
From: "Ianrat" <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Date: Nov 14, 2010
Does any one have a diagram of the new flap actuator switch wiring positions.
The plans only show the old type with the limit switches attached.
Thank you
Ian Ratcliffe
CH601XL. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319352#319352
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Flap Switch Wiring
Date: Nov 14, 2010
Just wire it as a polarity reversing switch. Use a DPDT switch with a center
off position. The up and down positions should be non-latching (momentary).
Sometimes denoted as (on)-off-(on). Wiring here:
http://www.1728.com/dpdt.gif from http://www.1728.com/project2.htm
The right switch from B&C would be an S700-2-7.
I've attached an image from the AeroElectric book but you may only be able
to see it if you go to the Matronics web version of the list.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ianrat
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 2:01 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Flap Switch Wiring
Does any one have a diagram of the new flap actuator switch wiring
positions.
The plans only show the old type with the limit switches attached.
Thank you
Ian Ratcliffe
CH601XL. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319352#319352
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2010
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal.
I will like to give my point of view about this matter...-- For me now
flying my 701 and (hope) soon the 601 XLB...-- My idea of a clean airpl
ane is not related with more top speed.
-
I fly to enjoy my flight, is useless to get there faster,- just take off
half an hour sooner and you save a lot of gas and time, same fun-:-)-
-
-
My idea of "cleaning" is more-to have a better range- and saving a few
bucks in gas is a bonus.- we redesigned the cowling of-our 701 and got
-a few mph in cruise (from 84 to around 92 mph) at 5,100 rpms-the flyin
g range has improved and the handling keeps great...- Now we have a much
better 701, we used to have a wonderfull 701 :-)
-
I also think that we never finish working on our airplanes...- "cleaning"
the plane is a better alternative to "adding goodies" and of course weight
.-
Go ahead with the work,- time with the airplane is always rewarding.
-
Also a forgoten point...- improve-our flying skills,- some pilots mig
ht -fly a little uncordinated (ball not exactly centered) or a "click" ou
t of trim...- this generates a lttle drag and of course reduces speed-
(how much? dont know).
-
Back to working...
-
Gary Gower
(Racers build Lancairs :-)
--- On Thu, 11/11/10, paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
From: paulrod36(at)msn.com <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Date: Thursday, November 11, 2010, 6:57 PM
It is a pretty clean plane, and wheel pants would help, but your prop pitch
has a lot to do with it, also. Generally, you get either good climbouts or
good cruise, but rarely both with a fixed-pitch prop. There's a ton of tal
ent and experience on this net, and I'm sure somebody will have your engine
/prop combo, and has probably dealt with the problem. I think there's gener
al agreement that wheelpants will give you some additional knots, and a few
tweaks, assuming you have a ground-adjustable prop, might very well do it
for you.- Frankly, I'm envious of anyone whose plane is done. Whenever I
get done, I may name it "Great Pyramid", or "Great Wall", or anything else
that took years, and years, and years, and.... well, you get the idea.- H
ang in there.
-
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hubelbank
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
--- Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit
a speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it, get
ting much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130 MPH i
s very full throttle.
--- Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect bette
r. When I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138
MPH) in cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
--- Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I a
m experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose would b
e to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean- plane as is,
-but putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily.-There's a
n old Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing some nitpicky
construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a tractor."
-
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how much d
rag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller gaps have
been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any reason it won't w
ork on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;------
--------------- -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;-
----- Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp;---- via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_=============
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
>www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Aileron gap seal.
Date: Nov 15, 2010
Hi Gary,
I am glad to see you are still around and flying.
I agree with your points - except for the notion that going fast is not
really valuable. I like to go as fast as I can in any airplane. Perhaps
that is why I didn't chose to build a 701.
I do agree with you about the idea that going faster doesn't really improve
your enjoyment. For me it is just a challenge that I can't resist. I
suppose I would follow your advice and build a Lancair, but I can't fly one
of those without a medical certificate. Besides, they have awful safety
records - much worse than experimental planes as a group.
Have fun,
Paul
Just finished second wing upgrade on XL - moving on to fuselage.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal.
I will like to give my point of view about this matter... For me now
flying my 701 and (hope) soon the 601 XLB... My idea of a clean airplane
is not related with more top speed.
I fly to enjoy my flight, is useless to get there faster, just take off
half an hour sooner and you save a lot of gas and time, same fun :-)
My idea of "cleaning" is more to have a better range and saving a few bucks
in gas is a bonus. we redesigned the cowling of our 701 and got a few mph
in cruise (from 84 to around 92 mph) at 5,100 rpms the flying range has
improved and the handling keeps great... Now we have a much better 701, we
used to have a wonderfull 701 :-)
I also think that we never finish working on our airplanes... "cleaning"
the plane is a better alternative to "adding goodies" and of course weight.
Go ahead with the work, time with the airplane is always rewarding.
Also a forgoten point... improve our flying skills, some pilots might fly
a little uncordinated (ball not exactly centered) or a "click" out of
trim... this generates a lttle drag and of course reduces speed (how much?
dont know).
Back to working...
Gary Gower
(Racers build Lancairs :-)
--- On Thu, 11/11/10, paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote:
From: paulrod36(at)msn.com <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Date: Thursday, November 11, 2010, 6:57 PM
It is a pretty clean plane, and wheel pants would help, but your prop pitch
has a lot to do with it, also. Generally, you get either good climbouts or
good cruise, but rarely both with a fixed-pitch prop. There's a ton of
talent and experience on this net, and I'm sure somebody will have your
engine/prop combo, and has probably dealt with the problem. I think there's
general agreement that wheelpants will give you some additional knots, and a
few tweaks, assuming you have a ground-adjustable prop, might very well do
it for you. Frankly, I'm envious of anyone whose plane is done. Whenever I
get done, I may name it "Great Pyramid", or "Great Wall", or anything else
that took years, and years, and years, and.... well, you get the idea. Hang
in there.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hubelbank
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mhubel@nemon.com>
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
Paul,
Interesting that you say it is a "slick plane", I find that I hit a
speed wall at about 120 MPH. Even with the 120 HP Jabiru 3300 on it, getting
much above 120 MPH is a very high throttle process and above 130 MPH is very
full throttle.
Granted I don't have wheel pants on it yet but I did expect better. When
I built it, I thought I could reasonable expect 115-120 knots (138 MPH) in
cruse with the Jabiru 3300 working at 75%.
Are you saying that I should expect it to have less drag than I am
experiencing?
On 11/11/2010 12:39 PM, paulrod36(at)msn.com
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
Aileron seals would be a good idea, but, really, their only purpose would be
to get you past Vne sooner. Granted, it's a slick, clean plane as is, but
putting speed mods on it would only be gilding the lily. There's an old
Chris Heintz quote, allegedly when someone was arguing some nitpicky
construction point: "It's not a space shuttle, it's a tractor."
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: mhubel <http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mhubel@nemon.com>
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zenith601-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:46 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Aileron gap seal
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mhubel@nemon.com> >
Has anyone looked at the gap on the bottom of the aileron to see how much
drag it causes. It would seem that on other aircraft much smaller gaps have
been covered to reduce drag with significant results. Any reason it won't
work on the CH601?
--------
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
41 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318875#318875
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> -Matt Dralle,
List nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp;
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List> via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_=============
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
<http://us.mc520.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mhubel@nemon.com>
978-443-3955
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/
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s.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
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ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
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llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" rel=nofollow
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap Switch Wiring
From: "Ianrat" <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Date: Nov 15, 2010
Thank Craig. It works very well. :D
Ianrat
Ch601xl
Brisbane Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319458#319458
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2010
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Bucking Bar
Howdy All,
I bought a shiny new bucking bar from ATS and it came with a plastic
coating on the two finished ends. It looks kind of like the stuff
that you dip tool handles in to make them grip.
Am I correct in assuming this is just for shipping protection and
should be removed before use?
It is really put on there with a nice finish, so I'm not sure if it
is meant to stay or not.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - rebuilding factory built spar
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bucking Bar
From: bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com
Date: Nov 18, 2010
Its just for protecting the face of the tool.
------Original Message------
From: Steve Look
Sender: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Zenith601-List: Bucking Bar
Sent: Nov 17, 2010 19:21
Howdy All,
I bought a shiny new bucking bar from ATS and it came with a plastic
coating on the two finished ends. It looks kind of like the stuff
that you dip tool handles in to make them grip.
Am I correct in assuming this is just for shipping protection and
should be removed before use?
It is really put on there with a nice finish, so I'm not sure if it
is meant to stay or not.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - rebuilding factory built spar
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Bucking Bar
Date: Nov 18, 2010
Steve,
All of the bucking bars I've gotten have a wax like coating on the polished ends
to protect these polished/exposed areas from corrosion.
It is okay to remove it and I just did the same last night for a few I ordered
a few years back and am now just getting around to using.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Look
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Bucking Bar
Howdy All,
I bought a shiny new bucking bar from ATS and it came with a plastic coating on
the two finished ends. It looks kind of like the stuff that you dip tool handles
in to make them grip.
Am I correct in assuming this is just for shipping protection and should be removed
before use?
It is really put on there with a nice finish, so I'm not sure if it is meant to
stay or not.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - rebuilding factory built spar
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bucking Bar
Date: Nov 17, 2010
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Steve, I don't think you could buck a rivet with a marshmallow. Peel it
off.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2010 6:21 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Bucking Bar
Howdy All,
I bought a shiny new bucking bar from ATS and it came with a plastic coati
ng on the two finished ends. It looks kind of like the stuff that you dip
tool handles in to make them grip.
Am I correct in assuming this is just for shipping protection and should
be removed before use?
It is really put on there with a nice finish, so I'm not sure if it is mea
nt to stay or not.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL - rebuilding factory built spar
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year...
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser. Response
has been good so far, but we're well behind last year at this point. If you've
been waiting until the last minute to make your Contribution, now might be good
time to show your support and maybe pick up a nice gift as well!
Please remember that there is no commercial advertising on these Lists and the
*only* means of keeping them running is through your Contributions during this
Fund Raiser. If it weren't for your individual Contributions, these Lists could
easily become economically infeasible and simply cease to exist.
You probably can't even take the family out to dinner for $20 these days, but your
individual Contribution of the same amount makes a huge difference in keeping
the List services alive.
Please make a Contribution today with a Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2010
Subject: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane
for sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sale price.....
From: its4jes(at)aim.com
Date: Nov 19, 2010
Dave.
Its probably the Corvair engine!.
It spells trouble to conventional pilots.
I hope you find a buyer.,
James S.
PS: Please don't shoot.
-----Original Message-----
From: VideoFlyer <VideoFlyer(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane f
or sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Sale price.....
Date: Nov 19, 2010
Actually if you look on Barnstormers there are 601XL with Jabiru's that also
haven't moved.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
its4jes(at)aim.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Dave.
Its probably the Corvair engine!.
It spells trouble to conventional pilots.
I hope you find a buyer.,
James S.
PS: Please don't shoot.
-----Original Message-----
From: VideoFlyer <VideoFlyer(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane
for sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
==========
ic.com">www.aeroelectric.com
.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
help.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
tor?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
==========
tp://forums.matronics.com
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Sale price.....
Date: Nov 19, 2010
Hi Dave,
I'm afraid I can't help, but perhaps I can shed some light on the issue.
Nothing in the way of light planes is selling these days. It is not just
the Zodiac XL. It is probably not your price. With the economy in the
gutter, unemployment at around 20 percent (including those who gave up
looking along with the 9.5 percent on the unemployment insurance hand out
roll) and lots of other problems there just isn't anybody who wants to buy a
light plane.
If you can wait for the government to stop spending all the money it can
print perhaps you will do better. If you must sell it now I suggest you
clean it up and fly it to every event you can reach and hang a for sale sign
on it. You might get someone on an impulse purchase.
Good luck,
Paul
XL still installing upgrade
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:15 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane
for sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2010
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Sale price.....
Paul is right, - Show it around and shure someone will be interested.
If not very soon, - with a positive attitude, -at least you will have f
un flying it, hopefully in a few weeks you might decide to keep it ;-)
Also is the perfect excuse to fly around... -(Saturday morning): -"Darl
ing, see you monday, -...going to show the plane around"-
:-) -:-) -:-) - :-) -
Gary.Installing the Update kit...
--- On Fri, 11/19/10, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 7:58 PM
Hi Dave, -I'm afraid I can't help, but perhaps I can shed some light on t
he issue. -Nothing in the way of light planes is selling these days.- I
t is not just the Zodiac XL.- It is probably not your price.- With the
economy in the gutter, unemployment at around 20 percent (including those w
ho gave up looking along with the 9.5 percent on the unemployment insurance
hand out roll) and lots of other problems there just isn't anybody who wan
ts to buy a light plane. -If you can wait for the government to stop spen
ding all the money it can print perhaps you will do better.- If you must
sell it now I suggest you clean it up and fly it to every event you can rea
ch and hang a for sale sign on it.- You might get someone on an impulse p
urchase. -Good luck, -PaulXL still installing upgrade - -From: owne
r-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:15 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sale price..... -Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601X
LB in the last year???-- I've had my plane for sale for most of the yea
r.- I keep lowering the price.--I don't want to GIVE it away....but I
'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!-Feel free to write me on or off-
list.--Dave Harms601XLB/Corvair-(for sale) - -www.aeroelectric.co
mwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contrib
utionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-Listhttp://forums.matroni
=====================0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Sale price.....
Date: Nov 19, 2010
Hi Dave,
We've had two 601HD, one flying and one a project, sell in the last few
months including a 701 project. We're located in northwest Illinois on the
Mississippi river. I think if you use Barnstormers, you'd have an easier
time of it.
There's a market for everything. I had a standing offer for my 601HDS until
the buyer decided he couldn't wait another year or so and bought a HDS from
out west this summer. Don't despair, try EBay too, as there are still
buyers out there that will get you 80 to 90 percent of what you want if
you're willing to wait. Just hang in there. The XL is still a great little
aircraft to most people.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 5:15 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane
for sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Sale price.....
Date: Nov 19, 2010
I don't often disagree either, but the Corvair engine is not a reason to cut
your price. It is actually has a serious advantage of economy and simplicity
for the buyer.
Time is the thing that seems to cause the sellers anxiety, but that will
resolve itself eventually with a sale. Just wait, you'll see.
Larry McFarland
601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 6:06 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] RE: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Actually if you look on Barnstormers there are 601XL with Jabiru's that also
haven't moved.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
its4jes(at)aim.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Dave.
Its probably the Corvair engine!.
It spells trouble to conventional pilots.
I hope you find a buyer.,
James S.
PS: Please don't shoot.
-----Original Message-----
From: VideoFlyer <VideoFlyer(at)aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Sale price.....
Has ANYONE sold a 601XL or 601XLB in the last year??? I've had my plane
for sale for most of the year. I keep lowering the price. I don't want to
GIVE it away....but I'm beginning to think I might HAVE TO!!!
Feel free to write me on or off-list.
Dave Harms
601XLB/Corvair (for sale)
==========
ic.com">www.aeroelectric.com
.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
help.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
tor?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
==========
tp://forums.matronics.com
==========
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2010
Subject: Hudson River MIRACLE - Approach Chart
From: Alberto Martin - Iberplanes IGLD <iberplanes(at)gmail.com>
_
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Started + Upgraded
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Un ingles a Tom Lucero en la guerra de Malvinas: "=A1Piloto argentino mejor
aqu=ED con nosotros en camilla. Muy peligroso arriba, en su avi=F3n!=97".
Un pasaje del libro "Dios y Los Halcones" del Com. Pablo M. Carballo
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sale price.....
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2010
Have you considered parting it out? That would also free you from future liability
worries.
My gut feeling is that the "firewall forward" would be easier to sell than the
"firewall aft". There is a pretty dedicated following of the Corvair engine among
the experimental guys. A close friend of mine just bought a Corvair engine
and a bunch of WW stuff from a guy who had given up on his project (due to a
divorce).
One other thing - without knowing your situation, I do know of one guy who lost
his job and put his XL up for sale. He couldn't sell it, and when he got another
job he took it off the market and is flying it now. He said he's glad it
didn't sell.
Good luck.
--------
Patrick Hoyt
XLb/650 Canopy/BRS/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320159#320159
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have
helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Nov 21, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2010
Subject: hingeless to hinge conversion
_http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/hingeless-to-hinge-conversion_
(http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/hingeless-to-hinge-conversion)
I am adding some photos and video there for those that needed the help.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2010
Subject: Re: hingeless to hinge conversion
turn down the volume!!!!
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzmaXI2HFyY_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzmaXI2HFyY)
In a message dated 11/21/2010 4:31:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com writes:
_http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/hingeless-to-hinge-conversion_
(http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/hingeless-to-hinge-conversion)
I am adding some photos and video there for those that needed the help.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 17%...
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 17%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising
income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to
keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I
also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related
data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and
the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter
of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a
modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of
these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you
can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the
continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Nov 22, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Nov 24, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: stainles steel rivets SS
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Nov 25, 2010
Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and discovered 5
A4 SS rivets left over.
has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can check
that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are spares..
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321053#321053
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stainles steel rivets SS
From: its4jes(at)aim.com
Date: Nov 25, 2010
Cris
Try the brake pedals.
JES
-----Original Message-----
From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Thu, Nov 25, 2010 6:09 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: stainles steel rivets SS
o.com.au>
Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and discover
ed 5
A4 SS rivets left over.
has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can
check
that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are spares..
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321053#321053
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stainles steel rivets SS
Date: Nov 25, 2010
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Chris,
I only recall using those ss rivets in the brake pedals and a couple in
the elevator control horn assembly.
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Thu, Nov 25, 2010 8:06 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: stainles steel rivets SS
oo.com.au>
Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and discove
red 5
A4 SS rivets left over.
has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can
check
that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are spares..
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321053#321053
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2010
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: stainles steel rivets SS
Hi Chris
I don't have a complete list, but the ones I know for sure are the 4 shown
on Dwg. 6T3 (rev. 03/06). There may be others that I have not yet
encountered. I don't know how many spares Zenair included in the kit.
Terry
>Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and
>discovered 5 A4 SS rivets left over.
>
>has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can
>check that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are spares..
>
>Chris.
>
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2010
Subject: Re: stainles steel rivets SS
From: Garry Williams <corvair.flier(at)gmail.com>
I may be incorrect on this but I would swear that I remember some mention of
SS rivets on the Rudder Horn area?
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Terry Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi Chris
>
> I don't have a complete list, but the ones I know for sure are the 4 shown
> on Dwg. 6T3 (rev. 03/06). There may be others that I have not yet
> encountered. I don't know how many spares Zenair included in the kit.
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>> Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and
>> discovered 5 A4 SS rivets left over.
>>
>> has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can
>> check that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are
>> spares..
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Terry Phillips
> ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
> Corvallis MT
> ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
> Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
> http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
--
Garry Williams
EAA - 1031 - www.Corvair-Flier.com <http://www.corvair-fflier.com/>
Corvair Powered - 601XL-B Scratch Builder
Edinburg, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2010
Subject: Re: stainles steel rivets SS
You use 2 SS rivets in the strap that goes between the upper and lower
Elevator Horn. the strap was added to remove any flexing of the skin.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/26/2010 9:07:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
corvair.flier(at)gmail.com writes:
I may be incorrect on this but I would swear that I remember some mention
of SS rivets on the Rudder Horn area?
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Terry Phillips <_ttp44(at)rkymtn.net_
(mailto:ttp44(at)rkymtn.net) > wrote:
(mailto:ttp44(at)rkymtn.net) >
Hi Chris
I don't have a complete list, but the ones I know for sure are the 4 shown
on Dwg. 6T3 (rev. 03/06). There may be others that I have not yet
encountered. I don't know how many spares Zenair included in the kit.
Terry
Gang just cleaning up the last of my metal work building stage and
discovered 5 A4 SS rivets left over.
has anyone got a list of where the SS rivets should go in the XL and I can
check that I have used the correct ones as required and that these are
spares..
Chris.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~_rkymtn.net_ (http://rkymtn.net/)
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
_http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/_ (http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/)
ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
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omebuiltHELP _www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
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Corvair Powered - 601XL-B Scratch Builder
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Dear Listers,
Curiously, even though the number of List subscriptions are significantly up this
year, support during this year's Fund Raiser is still substantially behind
last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of
the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching.
I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members
have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser
cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income
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Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in
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The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: compass position
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Nov 27, 2010
Advice from users required please
I am about to order the standby compass and was wanting some advice from user's.
I like the dash mounted ones over the pedestal ones and I do have room in the
dash.
When flying the local Sportstar with duel sticks, same config as mine, I see the
dash compass move up to 5 deg when you move the stick. Has anyone seen this
in the XL with the duel stick set up?
what about with the duel stick and pedestal compass any movement on the compass
with stick movement?
I was thinking of the FALCON over the AIRPATH just over cost or is the Falcon not
up to it? I had thought of a boat pedestal compass but the DAR said no..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321237#321237
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: compass position
Date: Nov 27, 2010
Chris,
Here in Washington DC USA my FAA Inspector insisted on an aviation wet
compass too. I tried to order the Falcon at the time but delivery was
unavailable. This was holding up my inspection so I ended up with the more
expensive AirPath. I have a valid correction card on it but rarely do the
math in flight, especially since I can read the heading and track off the
EFIS or the GPS. I have read complaints before about varying deviation due
to moving the stick on this list. I would suggest getting the compass as
far from the stick as possible if you are going to rely on it every day.
Jeff D
**************************************************************************
Advice from users required please
I am about to order the standby compass and was wanting some advice from
user's. I like the dash mounted ones over the pedestal ones and I do have
room in the dash.
When flying the local Sportstar with duel sticks, same config as mine, I see
the dash compass move up to 5 deg when you move the stick. Has anyone seen
this in the XL with the duel stick set up?
what about with the duel stick and pedestal compass any movement on the
compass with stick movement?
I was thinking of the FALCON over the AIRPATH just over cost or is the
Falcon not up to it? I had thought of a boat pedestal compass but the DAR
said no..
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrew McMenamin" <andrew.mcmenamin(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Undercarriage failures
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Hi list members
We have recently had both undercarriage legs fail in quick succession.
We have an XL 601B with curved legs, which I understand are made of
carbon fibre covered with fibreglass, and after a firm landing, noted on
pre-flight a week later a 3 mm wide and 250 mm long longitudinal crack
down the midline of the rear aspect of the left leg. We had this
replaced, then last week the other leg gave way after a further firm
landing, this time transversely across the upper leg just below the
attachment to the fuselage.
These landings were just typical firm student landings with an
instructor and leg failure was not expected from either.
Has anyone had a similar experience? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
Andrew,
I have worked on the ones with the gear you mention and was warned by the
owners that my test pilot had to be sure not to make any hard landings or the
gear will crack.
On the other hand the aluminum gear is about as robust as you can get as
discovered in a forced landing. I would suspect that the landings were hard
enough to crack the outer fiberglass and if it would have been the aluminum
gear it would be a non issue. If this is a SLSA you might want to contact AMD
or whom ever they are this month and see if you can convert it back to the
heavier gear. IMHO I don't think the 50 or 60 lbs is worth the risk of a gear
collapsing and really doing some damage.
I also think all you have to do is replace the gear supports and the new
larger gear still fits in the gear channel.
Hope this helps
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Undercarriage failures
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Hi Andrew,
I don't really know what an XL 601B is.
If you are using the light weight Czech gear on a 1320 pound plane then that
might explain the gear failures. I think the European Ultralight planes
have a lower gross weight and the Czech gear was designed for that spec.
In any case going back to the standard aluminum "Spring" gear should solve
your problem.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
McMenamin
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Undercarriage failures
Hi list members
We have recently had both undercarriage legs fail in quick succession. We
have an XL 601B with curved legs, which I understand are made of carbon
fibre covered with fibreglass, and after a firm landing, noted on pre-flight
a week later a 3 mm wide and 250 mm long longitudinal crack down the midline
of the rear aspect of the left leg. We had this replaced, then last week
the other leg gave way after a further firm landing, this time transversely
across the upper leg just below the attachment to the fuselage.
These landings were just typical firm student landings with an instructor
and leg failure was not expected from either.
Has anyone had a similar experience? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Three Days Left & Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers,
There are just three days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. Won't you take
a monment and make a quick Contribution today to support the continued upgrade
and operation of these Forum services.
I've received some more really nice comments from Listers along with their List
Support Contributions, and I've share a few below.
There are some sweet gifts available this year, so browse the selections and pickup
a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution.
Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or drop a personal check in the mail to:
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581 Jeannie Way
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USA
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Your List was such a great resource for me when I built in "98".
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The list still is a valuable source of information and there
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
Paul,
AMD offered that gear as an option on the 601... I have one that came in
for a upgrade and I called Zenith to see if it was changed / illegal or
factory and sure enough it is an option.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/28/2010 3:06:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
Hi Andrew,
I don't really know what an XL 601B is.
If you are using the light weight Czech gear on a 1320 pound plane then
that might explain the gear failures. I think the European Ultralight planes
have a lower gross weight and the Czech gear was designed for that spec.
In any case going back to the standard aluminum "Spring" gear should solve
your problem.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew McMenamin
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Undercarriage failures
Hi list members
We have recently had both undercarriage legs fail in quick succession. We
have an XL 601B with curved legs, which I understand are made of carbon
fibre covered with fibreglass, and after a firm landing, noted on pre-flight
a week later a 3 mm wide and 250 mm long longitudinal crack down the
midline of the rear aspect of the left leg. We had this replaced, then last week
the other leg gave way after a further firm landing, this time
transversely across the upper leg just below the attachment to the fuselage.
These landings were just typical firm student landings with an instructor
and leg failure was not expected from either.
Has anyone had a similar experience? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Andrew
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Undercarriage failures
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Hi Jeff,
I guess that could be an example of the questionable engineering we have
received from Zenith/Zenair/AMD. It makes me all the more appreciative of
the thousands of man-hours the FAA engineers spent reviewing the pre and
post upgrade XL structure.
By the way, I confirmed the fact of all that FAA engineering effort with the
manager of the light plane division - Wes Ryan. I spoke with him while
attending an ASTM F37 committee meeting a few weeks ago in Long Beach, CA.
He absolutely confirmed the facts that FAA engineers literally spent
thousands of man-hours going over the XL design before the upgrade and again
after the upgrade design was created by Zenair. They indeed did pronounce
the pre-upgrade design as deficient and the post-upgrade design as meeting
the appropriate ASTM design requirements.
I think we are very lucky that the XL existed both in S-LSA form and
kit/plans form. If not for the S-LSA, I doubt the FAA would have paid so
much attention to this design - even with the NTSB attention and accident
record. Now we have an apparently competent design for our planes.
Paul
Camas, WA
XL upgrade work in progress.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Undercarriage failures
Paul,
AMD offered that gear as an option on the 601... I have one that came in for
a upgrade and I called Zenith to see if it was changed / illegal or factory
and sure enough it is an option.
Jeff
In a message dated 11/28/2010 3:06:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
Hi Andrew,
I don't really know what an XL 601B is.
If you are using the light weight Czech gear on a 1320 pound plane then that
might explain the gear failures. I think the European Ultralight planes
have a lower gross weight and the Czech gear was designed for that spec.
In any case going back to the standard aluminum "Spring" gear should solve
your problem.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
McMenamin
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Undercarriage failures
Hi list members
We have recently had both undercarriage legs fail in quick succession. We
have an XL 601B with curved legs, which I understand are made of carbon
fibre covered with fibreglass, and after a firm landing, noted on pre-flight
a week later a 3 mm wide and 250 mm long longitudinal crack down the midline
of the rear aspect of the left leg. We had this replaced, then last week
the other leg gave way after a further firm landing, this time transversely
across the upper leg just below the attachment to the fuselage.
These landings were just typical firm student landings with an instructor
and leg failure was not expected from either.
Has anyone had a similar experience? Any recommendations?
Thanks
Andrew
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2010
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: Compass
Chris,
I see you were flying when the compass moved 5 deg. with the stick moving. Try
moving the stick on the ground. The movement you saw may not be magnetic interference.
A compass will move with acceleration and will also when you make a turn
will tend to turn in the opposite direction at first. It will lead and lag
depending on heading ( east is least and west is best.) A southerly heading is
the most steady if you are trying to set one up.
Hope this helps
Bobby
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2010
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Undercarriage failures
I thought this pot had been stirred enough. Apparently as long as
Zenith survives or there is something more than scrap value left to
the XL, there is never enough.
Steve
At 06:59 AM 11/28/2010, you wrote:
>
>I guess that could be an example of the questionable engineering ...
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Undercarriage failures
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Steve,
Perhaps if you had read the rest of the message instead of just cutting it
off you would reach a more correct conclusion.
I don't know why you want to bitch about Zenith surviving.
The rest of the message should actually help the value of the XL since it
says the new design has actually proven to be a good one after extensive
review by competent engineers rather then the poor one sold to us by
Zenith/Zenair/AMD that wound up suffering a number of in-flight failures.
Or perhaps you are one of the folks who wants to believe there never was a
real problem . . . that all those people died because they didn't keep their
cables at the correct tension?
Just in case you actually read the end of messages as well as the first line
. . . The Upgraded design is a competent one that meets the required ASTM
standards according to the FAA engineers that do the part 23 reviews. This
was not true of the previous design. We all were supposed to get that
message from the FAA Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin issued last
November, but the language was obscure enough that we just didn't understand
what they were trying to say. That was the document that required that ALL
XLs and 650s receive the upgrade before being flown again.
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Look
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Undercarriage failures
I thought this pot had been stirred enough. Apparently as long as Zenith
survives or there is something more than scrap value left to the XL, there
is never enough.
Steve
At 06:59 AM 11/28/2010, you wrote:
I guess that could be an example of the questionable engineering ...
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2010
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
Hi Andrew
Can you provide us with more information about your 601? It sounds like you
are using it for flight instruction, so, I would assume, that it is a
factory assembled S-LSA. Who built it? AMD, CZAW, someone else? What is
the gross weight limit specified in the POH? I believe that some CZAW
601XL's aircraft were manufactured for the European Ultralight
specification with a maximum allowable gross of 472.5 kg (1042 lb). I know
that Comlet, CZAW's landing gear supplier, markets versions of their gear
for both 472.5 and 600 kg gross (Google Comlet for more info). I have no
idea how one might determine whether the gear on your aircraft is supplied
by Comlet, and, if so, which version you have.
I have no doubt that the standard 601XL gear supplied by Zenair is very
strong. However, the attachments for the composite gear are very different
than for the standard aluminum gear. Switching would be a lot more complex
than just changing the gear. I have seen test data indicating that the
heavier version of the Comlet gear passed European tests on an airplane
rated at 600 kg (1320 lb) gross. It is likely that the gear on the
PiperSport is the heavier version of the Comlet gear.
If you believe that your gear is a Comlet product, I would recommend that
you contact Comlet and try to determine which version of their gear you
have. If you have the gear made for the European Ultralight you might look
into buying the heavier version. Hopefully, the attachment brackets fit
both versions.
If you do decide to purchase the heavier gear, I would consider ordering a
pair for my 601XL at the same time and we could split the trans-Atlantic
shipping costs. Let me know.
Good luck.
Terry
>Hi list members
>
>We have recently had both undercarriage legs fail in quick succession. We
>have an XL 601B with curved legs, which I understand are made of carbon
>fibre covered with fibreglass, and after a firm landing, noted on
>pre-flight a week later a 3 mm wide and 250 mm long longitudinal crack
>down the midline of the rear aspect of the left leg. We had this
>replaced, then last week the other leg gave way after a further firm
>landing, this time transversely across the upper leg just below the
>attachment to the fuselage.
>
>These landings were just typical firm student landings with an instructor
>and leg failure was not expected from either.
>
>Has anyone had a similar experience? Any recommendations?
>
>Thanks
>
>Andrew
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2010
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
The gear in question is Grove gear. And Zenith isn't at fault because
someone elses gear failed.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner with just two more days
in this year's Fund Raiser! Later in December I will post a list of everyone
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Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
From: "Pete54" <peter.morris(at)optimusaberdeen.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2010
The composite gear supplied by CZAW comes as suggested above in a variety of weight
capacities from 450kg (1050lbs) to 600kg (1320). There are European approvals
(which require not just design but also testing) at all these capacities.
Whilst the majority of European xls are notionally 450kg there are quite a
number built under the experimental rules (still requiring landing gear approval
unlike the US) with the heavier weights.
Mine is fitted to a 560kg xl but there are no markings that I can see (or recall).
Having said that the factor of safety on the gear is pretty high.
Here in the UK there have been a couple of instances of composite gear cracking,
not on xls ,but as you can see from the Comlet internet site they supply a lot
of manufacturers of LSA type aircraft. So there may be some quality issues,
certainly at any sign of damage the gear leg is likely to be scrap.
In contrast the Zenith alloy gear (supplied by Grove?) appears to be massively
strong - but the penalty is the weight - which is considerable. Which is why
someone I know who is building a US spec xl has had to get all the Us mods approved
in the UK to enable him to use the 600kg mauw - largely to compensate for
the weight for the weight of the gear - at 33lbs it is virtually 3 times the
weight of the composite.
--------
Pete Morris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321569#321569
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Am I missing something?
From: Lee Steensland <zenith-list(at)steensland.net>
Date: Nov 29, 2010
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Am I missing something?
Date: Nov 29, 2010
Hi Lee,
I think you are starting to get the idea of how a builder must relate to the design
sold by Zenith. I know I have an attitude problem over this issue, but I
have completed building my XL. As you progress you may improve your attitude
or it might approach the dark place where my attitude lies.
You should remember that this is not a Revel plastic airplane kit where you fit
the pieces together, paint your model plane and hang it on your ceiling. This
activity requires you to think through each step and eventually build "Your"
plane rather than trying to build "Their" design. You are the manufacturer,
and Zenith merely supplies parts and drawings which you may choose to use in your
building process.
Zenith has no revision control over their designs. That means they make changes
whenever they feel like it and the design one builder receives might be different
from they one he would have received if he ordered it one day earlier or
one day later. To make matters worse, you have no way of knowing who made the
latest design changes. Instead of following the industry practice of having
each engineer put his name and date of any change on each sheet of drawing they
merely have Chris Heintz's name on all pages. You can be sure he didn't do
the latest changes since he retired to France years ago.
On the bright side, if you install the upgrade published with the November FAA
SAIB you can have confidence that the engineering of the finished design meets
the ASTM requirements. This is more than you will ever get on another plans
or kit built plane.
You are free to consult with Zenith support people and email list members as well
as anybody else you can find when you feel you need it. Still, your plane
is your design and workmanship. You are the manufacturer.
Good luck,
Paul
XL installing upgrade
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lee Steensland
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:33 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Am I missing something?
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2010
Subject: Re: Am I missing something?
Hi Lee,
I see you are having some difficulty rationalizing the kit
parts and the drawings. I suggest that a phone call to the factory will
clarify things for you. Both the guys in the shop and the ladies of Zenith are
very helpful. If you have the opportunity to attend one of the rudder
building sessions it is well worth it. The zenith.aero list is very helpful too
and a lot more helpful than some of the folk on other lists. Unfortunately
there are many people on this list who have tried, unsuccessfully, to bring
Zenith to its knees. Buy a copy of Chris Heintz book "Flying on Your Own
Wings" and you will understand his philosophy of design. He is neither a new
comer or a beginner in this area. Do not archive.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 11/29/2010 10:40:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
zenith-list(at)steensland.net writes:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Lee Steensland
Folks,
I would like to consider myself a conscientious builder. I read have
read through the drawings very thoroughly, and followed up with the step
by step assembly guides. I have even go as far as to buy the
homebuilthelp.com videos. The info between the assembly drawings and the
drawings and the "kit" I have seem to be pretty disparate.
Here is an example:
My construction and assembly drawings show a stop plate that goes on the
top of the of the nose gear to keep it from going through the firewall
stiffener. I looked through every packing list I have and it is no where
to be found. Come to find out Zenith lengthened the nose gear tube so
that you no longer need the stop plate. What I want to know is where is
that "upgrade" captured? I looked on the builder update site, and I
can't find it mentioned there; which should be to go-to place for things
like that.
Here is another example:
The assembly guide spends a few pages talking about building a wing jig
to distance the center wing spar with the rear wing spar in the
fuselage. I looked through all the stuff I have and I don't have the
spar stubs or the 6061 sheet to make the wing spar jig. I do have
pre-drilled holes in my fuselage for the center spar, however. So it
occurs to me that I don't actually need that jig.
Mind you, I'm not trying to bash Zenith (well maybe just a little) but I
am just trying to build the best plane I can, and I go around feeling
like I out of the loop on a few things that seem kinda vital to my
success as a builder.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Am I missing something?
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2010
Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of the web
site under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates.
There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative. Each
file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to open
each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time.
I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear changing
but I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on
the top of the nose gear leg.
The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure?
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Am I missing something?
From: afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2010
There is a very easy way to tell if your part has been revised or changed s
ince the drawings you have that might be outdated.
If you look at any part in the drawings they have a part # and that part #
should match the tag or sticker on the part you have a question about. If t
he part # has a revision it will be something like 6-G-1-1/2 That translate
d means 6 = 601, G = Gear, 1 = Page #, 1 = drawing # on page, and m
ost important is the next # which means 2 revision's.
Now if you have say 6-G-1-1/3 that would mean the part has been revised 3 t
imes but the plans might not have caught up yet but your tag will indicate
a revision. If you have any questions about a revision Shirley at Zenith ca
n most times let you know what was changed.
Hope this helped
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lendon <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 29, 2010 10:00 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Am I missing something?
Zenith does publish updates and they are located in the builders area of th
e web
ite under (Model name) DRAWINGS Updates.
There are a total of ten files listed there and none of them are cumulative
.
ach file represents the changes since the last change. So you will have to
pen each file and search for 6-G-1 to see what has evolved over time.
I just did that but didn't notice anything about the length of the gear cha
nging
ut I did notice the note about not needing the 4130 PLATE with the nuts on
the
op of the nose gear leg.
The overall length on my print is 795mm. What does your 6-g-1-1 measure?
--------
on Lendon, Detroit, MI
W Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
odiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
ttp://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
orvair Engine Prints:
ttp://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321669#321669
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Undercarriage failures
From: "Andrew McMenamin" <andrew.mcmenamin(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Nov 30, 2010
Thanks to all those who have replied. I should point out that I am writing from
New Zealand, so some of the S-LSA and other categories mentioned are not familiar
to me. This aircraft flies in the NZ ultralight category.
The plane was built from plans, I believe, by a LAME. Those parts that he purchased,
appear to have come from Europe.
Re the XL 601b designation, I am using this as per current informal practice, to
designate that the FAA and NZ CAA mandated fuselage and wing work has been completed.
Maximum AUW is listed as 544 kg.
Thanks to those who suggested I look at the COMLET website. I have not yet re-examined
the existing undercarriage for ID marks but it looks very much like the
COMLET products on the COMLET website. I will check that the weight category
is compatible with the designators on the undercarriage.
At present we have found a Sport Cruiser undercarriage that we understand can be
made to fit. Does anyone have experience in such a modification?
I have been a list lurker for three or four years and this is my first posting.
Thanks again to all those who have contributed so helpfully, and any further
assistance remains appreciated.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321759#321759
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron control stop mod
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 05, 2010
Gang
just finishing the last of the mod ( being the Aileron Control stops in the fuselage
6ZU4-1 and noticed something strange.
the bottom picture on page 19 of 23 in 6-ZU-4 show an L angel running along the
fuse centerline and riveted to the cross piece. The upgrade drawings don't show
this L angel and my original plans don't show it.
So is it supposed to be the on the XL and if so where is it in the original plans
or upgrade plans?
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322326#322326
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Dec 06, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Re: Seals
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Dec 08, 2010
Greetings from Idaho!
Carbon monoxide is nasty, nasty stuff. I had an encounter with it many years ago
when I was a teenager.
Driving an Austin Healey 100-4 on a cold snowy January night, I encountered highway
construction. Being a soft-top vehicle, that car had more air-leaks, drafts,
etc., I had to wear my ski togs in order to stay warm.
I encountered several pot-holes, evidently puncturing the exhaust muffler.
I didn't make it 50 miles. Sometime after leaving the road, John Law was trying
to wake me -- accusing me of being drunk, etc...
Man, was I sick!
The doctors, at the hospital, told me that once poisoned, that you are very susceptible
for the rest of your life, to experience the same problem again.
So, BEEEE CAREFUL!
With the problems that are being reported, lately, with carbon monoxide,
it makes me wonder if this could have been the causes of the accidents of past????
Mack
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322698#322698
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CH601 material list
From: "JHDAZZ" <hoseabyjesus(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Hi All,
Greetings, I am in the process of acquiring the material for scratch building
the 601HD and would like to know if there is any accurately compiled material
list out there that I can use.
Regards,
Joel
--------
Joel forever
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322760#322760
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Subject: Re: CH601 material list
Welcome aboard, Joel
Take a look into CH601.org, there's oodles of info in there.
There might be some data or pointers in the matronics archives as well.
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 9 December 2010 13:28, JHDAZZ wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Greetings, I am in the process of acquiring the material for scratch
> building the 601HD and would like to know if there is any accurately
> compiled material list out there that I can use.
>
> Regards,
> Joel
>
> --------
> Joel forever
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: CH601 material list
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Hi Joel,
The material lists for scratch building an HD can be easily misunderstood.
If you do wish to build the HD from plans (less kit), you probably want to
put together a list that works just the components you want to do first,
like the rudder, the stabilizer, then the elevator and then wings. I did the
fuselage last and left purchase of that aluminum out of the equation until
it was needed.
There's little to be saved by buying it all in one chunk. The thing you'll
be surprised to know is that one can use up to 30% more material than
planned-for because of "educational mistakes", quality issues, drawing
errors, more mistakes etc. I had to scrap nearly all of my .016 because the
sender, Kansas Air Parts had put heel marks across the better of 5 sheets.
They did correct my billing and I ultimately used .020 as alternate with
exception to ailerons, in places I thought would offer better resistance to
handling and spectator curiosity. Always have your aluminum sent coiled and
protected for best results. Never boxed and shipped flat!
I'd recommend you buy sheets that match your build lengths and avoid an
excess that doesn't give you a cutoff that can be fully used elsewhere. I
have several material lists that I will forward to you off list.
If you need forms, I have a complete set of HD bulkheads, rudder,
stabilizer, elevator, wing rib forms for both HD and HDS, dies, fiberglass
molds for wing tips, gear box covers, wheel pants and a gear fork bending
tool if you're interested. There's too much stuff to list here, but you
could do another 3 or 4 planes with these forms.
Check into my scratch builder's site, "macsmachine.com" pictures and journal
to get a feel for what my 5-1/2 years building were about. I do miss the
build process mistakes and all. If you have other questions that I might
help you with don't hesitate to ask.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland
601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JHDAZZ
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 12:29 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] Zenith601-List: CH601 material list
-->
Hi All,
Greetings, I am in the process of acquiring the material for scratch
building the 601HD and would like to know if there is any accurately
compiled material list out there that I can use.
Regards,
Joel
--------
Joel forever
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322760#322760
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2010
Subject: Upgrades or lack there of!
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I
would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be
worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need
to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Upgrades or lack there of!
Date: Dec 10, 2010
I had a little trouble interpreting the photos so I thought I would ask a
question or two.
The rivets you are concerned about are the bottom row in the picture? I
guess this is a picture of the new spar cap angle riveted to the main spar
and viewed through the wing locker. Is this true? It seems like your
concern is the shape of the shop heads. Is this true?
I am very concerned about your comments. So far, I only get the message you
are concerned about the solid rivets. Are there other problems you have
found?
Your comments make me feel good about my decision to use bolts instead of
solid rivets on my upgrade. I would still like any comments you may have
about any other areas of concern.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade - finished wings and just finishing the new rear
channel attach brackets (along with reworking the flap torque tube to get
rid of some extra holes that Sabrina refers to as Swiss Cheese).
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:22 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Upgrades or lack there of!
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I
would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be
worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need
to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2010
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Paul
Every part of the upgrade is installed incorrectly..... I can send you the
photo's off everything and you will see my concern. :)
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:42:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
I had a little trouble interpreting the photos so I thought I would ask a
question or two.
The rivets you are concerned about are the bottom row in the picture? I
guess this is a picture of the new spar cap angle riveted to the main spar
and viewed through the wing locker. Is this true? It seems like your
concern is the shape of the shop heads. Is this true?
I am very concerned about your comments. So far, I only get the message
you are concerned about the solid rivets. Are there other problems you
have found?
Your comments make me feel good about my decision to use bolts instead of
solid rivets on my upgrade. I would still like any comments you may have
about any other areas of concern.
Paul
XL still doing the upgrade - finished wings and just finishing the new
rear channel attach brackets (along with reworking the flap torque tube to get
rid of some extra holes that Sabrina refers to as Swiss Cheese).
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:22 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Upgrades or lack there of!
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I would
venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be worse
off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will
need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2010
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Here is a link to all the photos...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39343&id=100000256688371&l=3ecaba3433
They are on face book so you will need a face book profile I think. I would
post them to Zenith Aero but it takes too long.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:22:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com writes:
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have
lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade
yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I
would venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and how
to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only to be
worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will
need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old
rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2010
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Interesting, This level of workmanship is scary. One would expect that
those who don't know how to do something on an airplane would ask for
help, that was not done in this case.
I was fortunate enough to have a friendly fellow flier a few hangers
away who was also a mechanic. I got some lessons in doing solid rivets
before doing mine and then he looked at the finished job. It is hard to
believe others would do less.
I also cheated and used a big (6000 lb rating) rivet squeezer to do all
the -6 rivets. It make the job very professional looking. The right
tools are always a great help.
On 12/11/2010 12:22 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and
> have lost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the
> upgrade yourself if you are not skilled enough to do it?
> After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to
> the shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the
> upgrade I would venture to say the later would have been safer without
> the upgrade.
> I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and
> how to spot it for buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
> These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely
> show what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer only
> to be worse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
> The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will
> need to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of
> the old rivets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
> Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair cowling and motor mount
From: "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net>
Date: Dec 11, 2010
I received my cowling and motor mount for my Corvair powered 601XL-B. I bought
them from Aeromax. I liked the shape of the cowling and decided to get this one.
It is made from lightweight glass over a honeycomb core. No excess resin. It
weighs 12 lbs and that without the cutout for the prop hub. The motor mount
fits perfectly and the welds look good. It came with all the mounting hardware
for the cowling, piano hinge for the top/bottom half, nut plates and SS flat
head screws & countersunk washers for around the back. The motor mount came with
all the engine mounting hardware.
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322971#322971
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cowling_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2010
From: Walter Carey <careywf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Jeff,
-
-- Are all the photos on Facebook of the same aircraft? Many of the pho
tos show very poor workmanship to say the least. Most will requires many mo
re hours/money to correct than the time/money/effort to do the upgrade. WOW
.
-
Walt Carey in Dayton, OH
About to start upgrade on kit.
601XL w/Jabiru 3300A
-
--- On Sat, 12/11/10, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com <Afterfxllc(at)aol.com>
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 1:05 AM
Here is a link to all the photos...-
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=39343&id=100000256688371&l=3eca
ba3433
They are on face book so you will need a face book profile I think. I would
post them to Zenith Aero but it takes too long.
-
Jeff
-
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:22:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Afterfxl
lc(at)aol.com writes:
-
-
As many of you know I have been doing upgrades for the past year and have l
ost count at this point. But what is the point of doing the upgrade yoursel
f if you are not skilled enough to do it?
-After what I have seen between the aircraft that were brought in to the
shop before the upgrade and one that was brought in after the upgrade I wou
ld venture to say the later would have been safer without the upgrade.
-I will be posting photos each day with a caption of what is wrong and ho
w to spot it for-buyers of a flying upgraded 601 XL-B.
-These photos aren't being posted to embarrass anyone but to merely show
what could be the next wave of aircraft that should be safer-only to be w
orse off with the upgrade being installed incorrectly.
-
The first photo is of the rivets that were bucked incorrectly and will need
to be replaced. Not only were they done incorrectly but some of the old ri
vets are still in the holes that were drilled wrong.
-
Some of these rivet heads have a gap between them and the aluminum.
-
-
-
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2010
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left
aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can
be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the
upgrade.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Date: Dec 11, 2010
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the
original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more
about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built
(plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might
help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably
require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P.
In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process.
Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a
second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of
aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came
about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first
time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left
aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he
can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the
upgrade.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2010
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the
upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work
just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and
really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to
inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I
think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse
off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky
next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on
any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my
work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each
aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the
upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an
A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue
prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not
the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more
about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built
(plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might
help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably
require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P.
In the experimental there is no government control at all over this
process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by
a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind
of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came
about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the
first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left
aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can
be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the
upgrade.
Jeff
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2010
Subject: Upgrade or lack there of! Aileron
Under each Photo is a note of what is incorrect.
This is as opened and you can see there are no rivets in the rib where it
meets the
aileron and the rivet spacing in the top and bottom of the skin is
incorrect (missing rivets).
Also not the nuts might be bottomed out and one more washer is needed.
As a result of this I believe it caused flexing in the aileron and caused
it to bend at the
trailing edge and now this aileron has to be replaced.
Here you can see the reinforcement is installed incorrectly... This should
be forward and
also attached to the hinge and angle to keep the skin from bending. This is
absolutely
useless and if you look it was once drilled correctly and was in the
correct location.
Her
Same as above
This one I feel is the most critical and was installed again too far aft
and as a result
the new paint is cracked at the joint from flexing.
This is the new aileron that will be installed. I offered these to Sabrina
when she was
needing some but she ended up doing something else so now it will have a
new
home on this bird. I have been storing these for 4 years now..... anyone
need a right aileron??
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Room
Date: Dec 12, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Dec 12, 2010
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser
inspect it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although
they can't "sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect
system but would clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too
late for this round of updates as the worst offending spots can not be
seen during any reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one
could put a video camera on a very long handle in through the two
inspection holes we do have. Even that does not allow the inspection of
significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason
after they had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
> Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the
> upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the
> poor work just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never
> be known and really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no
> one is required to inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work
> is this sloppy (and I think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I
> think some plane's are worse off after the upgrade. And if these
> plane's start falling out of the sky next year the value of the 601
> will be less than scrap metal.
> As for the rules:
> I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can
> work on any EXP-AB aircraft.
> I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All
> my work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing
> for each aircraft we upgrade.
> We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about
> the upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
> I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get
> an A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't
> read blue prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance
> where we can.
> Jeff
> In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> psm(at)att.net writes:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade
> was not the original builder of this plane.
>
> I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to
> know more about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how
> it was built (plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners
> it has had that might help to understand how this all happened.
>
> If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would
> probably require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done
> by a licensed A&P. In the experimental there is no government
> control at all over this process. Only the owner has the
> authority to require inspection of any work by a second mechanic.
> I really think current and future owners of this kind of aircraft
> (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came about.
>
> I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was
> the first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything
> on an airplane?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> *From:*owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
> *To:* zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
>
> Walt,
>
> Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished
> this year.
>
> I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the
> left aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will
> have a bird he can be confident in.
>
> The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour
> because of the upgrade.
>
>
> Jeff
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *www.buildersbooks.com*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> *
>
> tp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> / href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
> s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2010
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
This one had wing lockers but most of the upgrade can be seen thru the
inspection panels. I will be removing the LE to repair the new spar angle
rivets though.
In a message dated 12/12/2010 11:08:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mhubel(at)nemon.com writes:
Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser inspect
it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although they can't
"sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect system but would
clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too late for this round
of updates as the worst offending spots can not be seen during any
reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one could put a video camera
on
a very long handle in through the two inspection holes we do have. Even
that does not allow the inspection of significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason after they
had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, _Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
wrote:
Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the
upgrade but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work
just a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and
really isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to
inspect this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I
think it is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse
off after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky
next year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on
any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my
work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each
aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the
upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an
A&P to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue
prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_psm(at)att.net_ (mailto:psm(at)att.net) writes:
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not
the original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more
about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built
(plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might
help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably
require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P.
In the experimental there is no government control at all over this
process. Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by
a second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind
of aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came
about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the
first time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: _owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com) ] On Behalf Of
_Afterfxllc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Afterfxllc(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left
aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he can
be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the
upgrade.
Jeff
_www.aeroelectric.com_ (http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
www.buildersbooks.com
_www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
tp://www.aeroelectric.com/">_www.aeroelectric.com_
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
/ href=_"http://www.buildersbooks.com/"_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
>_www.buildersbooks.com_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
_http://www.homebuilthelp.com/_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
">_www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
href=_"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List"_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
>_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
s.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_
(http://forums.matronics.com/)
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
_mhubel(at)nemon.com_ (mailto:mhubel(at)nemon.com)
978-443-3955
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Date: Dec 12, 2010
Jeff,
I hope you are considering replacing the extruded spar cap angle as well as
the rivets. I remember seeing some significant damage to the area around
the poorly set rivets. I think the cost of material would be minimal and
the results from trying to smooth out the damage might be questionable. In
either case you will need to do a lot of work to make the holes line up
properly to install new hard rivets.
I'm guessing you will see similar damage on the other end of the rivets.
The same logic can apply there too. Aluminum bar and angle is not very
expensive and easy to obtain.
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
This one had wing lockers but most of the upgrade can be seen thru the
inspection panels. I will be removing the LE to repair the new spar angle
rivets though.
In a message dated 12/12/2010 11:08:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mhubel(at)nemon.com writes:
Jeff,
It would be hard to legally require it, but having an EAA adviser
inspect it as an alternative to a A&P would be very desirable. Although they
can't "sign it off" they do issue a report. It is not a perfect system but
would clearly catch things like you are seeing. It may be too late for this
round of updates as the worst offending spots can not be seen during any
reasonable annual/condition inspection. I suppose one could put a video
camera on a very long handle in through the two inspection holes we do have.
Even that does not allow the inspection of significant areas.
I take it that you are opening things up again for some reason after
they had been closed and this is how you see all this.
On 12/12/2010 10:24 AM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
Well from what I understand it was the original builder that did the upgrade
but I highly doubt he built the plane by himself based on the poor work just
a few years later.... So the answer to that will never be known and really
isn't the issue. The issue as I see it is that no one is required to inspect
this work and if just one tenth of the work is this sloppy (and I think it
is based on the aircraft I have seen) I think some plane's are worse off
after the upgrade. And if these plane's start falling out of the sky next
year the value of the 601 will be less than scrap metal.
As for the rules:
I am not an A&P and my work doesn't have to be inspected and I can work on
any EXP-AB aircraft.
I can do everything and can sign off everything short of a annual. All my
work is well documented and we request a 5 hour phase 1 in writing for each
aircraft we upgrade.
We have had the FAA send down someone from Oklahoma just to talk about the
upgrade and take photo's of each part as installed.
I think there should have to be an inspection but by who? If you get an A&P
to do it they are unfamiliar with the upgrade and most can't read blue
prints so it might just be up to us to offer assistance where we can.
Jeff
In a message dated 12/11/2010 9:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psm(at)att.net writes:
Hi Jeff,
It seems from your comments that the person who did the upgrade was not the
original builder of this plane.
I don't want you to violate any confidences, but I would like to know more
about the history of this plane. If you can tell us how it was built
(plans/kit/quickbuild) and how many different owners it has had that might
help to understand how this all happened.
If I understand the rules in the USA, a big job like this would probably
require an inspection by an AI even if the work was done by a licensed A&P.
In the experimental there is no government control at all over this process.
Only the owner has the authority to require inspection of any work by a
second mechanic. I really think current and future owners of this kind of
aircraft (Exp-AB) would benefit from knowing just how this fiasco came
about.
I am left wondering how such poor work was done. Perhaps this was the first
time the "Mechanic" who did this work ever did anything on an airplane?
Thanks,
Paul
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Upgrades or lack there of!
Walt,
Those are different airplanes I am working on or have finished this year.
I told the new owner I would do all the repairs and replace the left
aileron for 2,000.00 and 500.00 for material and then he will have a bird he
can be confident in.
The airplane itself is built very well but it all went sour because of the
upgrade.
Jeff
www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Zenith601-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Dec 13, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Dec 14, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2010 List of Contributors
Dear Listers,
The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its
the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible.
Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running.
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage
you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2010
From: Rich Simmons <4RCSIMMONS(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Rivet Head Deformation
Hey folks,
I have tried to attach a picture of a rivet after the penning the head.
You can see its deformation. How much of this is acceptable if any?
Thanks,
Rich Simmons
601XL soon to be 601XL-B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Rivet Head Deformation
Date: Dec 15, 2010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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose Rib attachment question
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Dec 16, 2010
Just a quick one - Looking at the angles (6ZU1-3 and 6ZU1-4) used to attach the
nose ribs am I correct that the widest edge goes to the rib and the narrow to
the spar? If it was in the documentation I wasn't able to find it... Maybe I
need new glasses :-)
Thanks!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323590#323590
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Nose Rib attachment question
Date: Dec 16, 2010
Hi Tim,
I did it that way.
I don't think it really matters so long as you can meet good edge distances
for all your rivets and bolts.
Have fun,
Paul
XL upgrading fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:34 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Nose Rib attachment question
Just a quick one - Looking at the angles (6ZU1-3 and 6ZU1-4) used to attach
the nose ribs am I correct that the widest edge goes to the rib and the
narrow to the spar? If it was in the documentation I wasn't able to find
it... Maybe I need new glasses :-)
Thanks!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323590#323590
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2010
From: Albert Rupp <a.f.rupp(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Nose Rib attachment question
Tim,
If you look at upgrade pictures on page 15 of 26 for section 6-ZU-1 the wide end
goes on the rib with the rivets 10mm in from the edge of the wide piece.
Al Rupp
601XL Corvair
Mods completed
________________________________
From: Tim Juhl <juhl(at)avci.net>
Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 5:33:54 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Nose Rib attachment question
Just a quick one - Looking at the angles (6ZU1-3 and 6ZU1-4) used to attach the
nose ribs am I correct that the widest edge goes to the rib and the narrow to
the spar? If it was in the documentation I wasn't able to find it... Maybe I
need new glasses :-)
Thanks!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323590#323590
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Dec 19, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
From: "CYROPA38" <pricedl(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2010
Looking for some advice / opinions / comments, and suggestions.
Im currently scratch building a 601XLb. Im at the stage where I need to make a
decision whether to build the wing lockers or not.
For those of you that already have wing lockers in your 601s, Im curious as to
whether they are working as planned. Are they useful? Do you use them on regular
bases? Are they acquired awkward to get into? Are there any issues with items
inside getting wet? Any In-flight problems? Etc.
Thanks in advance.
--------
Dwayne W. Price
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323852#323852
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Date: Dec 19, 2010
From: davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com
Dwayne,
They were somewhat of a pain to install but I'm glad I did but you need
to add extra fasteners around the lid and extra L angles under the lid
for support to keep the lid from raising during flight also things will
get wet so you will have to put things you don't want to get wet in
water tight storage such as zip lock bags.
David Coberly 601XLB / Corvair
-----Original Message-----
From: CYROPA38 <pricedl(at)rogers.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 19, 2010 4:57 pm
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Looking for some advice / opinions / comments, and suggestions.
Im currently scratch building a 601XLb. Im at the stage where I
need to
make a decision whether to build the wing lockers or not.
For those of you that already have wing lockers in your 601s, Im
curious as
to whether they are working as planned. Are they useful? Do you use
them on
regular bases? Are they acquired awkward to get into? Are there any
issues with
items inside getting wet? Any In-flight problems? Etc.
Thanks in advance.
--------
Dwayne W. Price
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323852#323852
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
From: "CYROPA38" <pricedl(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2010
David, thanks for the advice. Our EAA 245 president gave me very similar advice
this morning. He has an older 601HD, but the same issues were raised, wet,
extra L angles and fasteners.
I wish there was a better or different way to fasten them closed. Perhaps something
that doesnt require a screwdriver. I guess the other option is to not use
them frequently, or carry items you seldom need access to, i.e. survival gear.I
have some thinking to do.
--------
Dwayne W. Price
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323860#323860
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
From: "CYROPA38" <pricedl(at)rogers.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2010
Thanks Jeff. Is anybody using anything other than Dzus fasteners?
--------
Dwayne W. Price
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323869#323869
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2010
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Yup.
I used these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 19 December 2010 20:09, CYROPA38 wrote:
>
> Thanks Jeff. Is anybody using anything other than Dzus fasteners?
>
> --------
> Dwayne W. Price
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Those are cool!
Do you have a source for the latches?
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Yup.
I used these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 19 December 2010 20:09, CYROPA38 > wrote:
:pricedl(at)rogers.com>>
Thanks Jeff. Is anybody using anything other than Dzus fasteners?
--------
Dwayne W. Price
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
They are cool indeed, but obscenely expensive.
AS&S has them in their catalog for $121
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/latches.html
The trick is to find "new surplus", which I did manage to do.
Airparts Inc has them for $20, but they are for the wrong material
thickness.
You need to learn the anatomy of these gadgets: they must fit the material
you are working with; also the version that has a travel limited to 90 deg.
is better, or it will hit the material around it and make a dent.
http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/flush-latch-hartwell.htm
There is also a version with a round button, which is much easier to
install, but I never found them for a reasonable price.
This site has them for $48. Five or 7 per door... do the math...
https://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid 26
I believe I posted some information on the list a while back.
If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll gather the info for you (I'm
about to crash, it's almost midnight here in Montreal).
Cheers
Carlos
On 19 December 2010 22:38, Don Honabach wrote:
> Those are cool!
>
>
> Do you have a source for the latches?
>
>
> Don
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Thanks Carlos!
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
They are cool indeed, but obscenely expensive.
AS&S has them in their catalog for $121
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/latches.html
The trick is to find "new surplus", which I did manage to do.
Airparts Inc has them for $20, but they are for the wrong material thicknes
s.
You need to learn the anatomy of these gadgets: they must fit the material
you are working with; also the version that has a travel limited to 90 deg.
is better, or it will hit the material around it and make a dent.
http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/flush-latch-hartwell.htm
There is also a version with a round button, which is much easier to instal
l, but I never found them for a reasonable price.
This site has them for $48. Five or 7 per door... do the math...
https://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid 26
I believe I posted some information on the list a while back.
If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll gather the info for you (I'm
about to crash, it's almost midnight here in Montreal).
Cheers
Carlos
On 19 December 2010 22:38, Don Honabach > wrote:
Those are cool!
Do you have a source for the latches?
Don
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Dec 20, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Try Wicks. $12 each.
Jeff D
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: 601-650 Upgrade Kit W/Wing Lockers
They are cool indeed, but obscenely expensive.
AS&S has them in their catalog for $121
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/latches.html
The trick is to find "new surplus", which I did manage to do.
Airparts Inc has them for $20, but they are for the wrong material
thickness.
You need to learn the anatomy of these gadgets: they must fit the material
you are working with; also the version that has a travel limited to 90 deg.
is better, or it will hit the material around it and make a dent.
http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/flush-latch-hartwell.htm
There is also a version with a round button, which is much easier to
install, but I never found them for a reasonable price.
This site has them for $48. Five or 7 per door... do the math... do not
archive
https://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid 26
I believe I posted some information on the list a while back.
If you can't find it, send me a note and I'll gather the info for you (I'm
about to crash, it's almost midnight here in Montreal).
Cheers
Carlos
On 19 December 2010 22:38, Don Honabach wrote:
Those are cool!
Do you have a source for the latches?
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2010
Subject: Fwd: Hartwell latch
Below is a summary of what I learned during the intalation of the Hartwell
latches.
It's a note I sent to some builders that were interested in this set up.
Carlos
________________
To operate the latches, you will need to apply a force perpendicular to the
skin, so the skin
and the area around it must be able to take the stress. My locker cover is
0.020" - I should have used 0.025", but I think it will survive. If not, it
should be a matter of hours to make another one with thicker material.
New latches are a bit stiff, so I operated each one a number of times until
they became easier
to work with - before I ever installed them in their "final resting place".
They open with a jolt, so they can damage the skin when they reach fully
open position. The
damage is visible on the picture of the hole patters. One of them shows some
deformation (3rd from left, on top). So, to fix the problem, I made a
"cage", or travel stop, to make sure the latch stops before denting the
skin. This is the purpose of those funny "match boxes" you see.
I learned *after* purchasing these latches that *there is an model with
travel limited to 90 degrees* ...
Should you decide to use Hartwell latches, look for this particular model.
See page 2 of the AS&S specs at
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/hartwell.pdf
I think this would be an H5000-3.
I used H5000-2-025-051, where 025 is the door thickness, and 051 is door
plus frame thickness (the "limited travel" version would be
H5000-3-025-051).
In my case they are both 0.020 and it fits well.
I got them from aviation-instrument.com , a gentleman named Chuck Gonzales -
mailto: cgonzalez@aviation-instrument.com
Great people to work with.
They were "surplus new", $10.00 each - that was a year ago, not sure if they
have any left...
Hartwell wanted $100 each - they would manufacture them, as they have none
in stock ...!!!
Wicks sells them at $10 each. I asked the complete part number (not shown
on-line), and they are for thicker material - you might want to inquire
and/or order a sample to see if it fits.
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=5075~subid=1456/index.html>
There is also the "helicopter" variation, which would have been easier to
install (round
holes), but the only source I found wanted $50/each.
http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml
I think it deserves a little more searching, as it would save the time and
effort of making irregular shaped holes.
If you decide against Hartwell latches, I would suggest camlock fasteners -
more expensive than dzus, but, in my opinion, a better engineered
solution: http://www.milspecproducts.com/
About the pictures:
I made hole patterns, starting with cardboard and then making them a bit
better (on 0.016"),
until I was happy. I used the one to the right to trace the hole shape on
the door, then
drilled small holes all around and shaped with a file.
The travel stop / cage was made of thin stock (0.020"?), and then a
trapezoidal piece (0.032")
riveted inside (see sample next to the hole templates).
One more consideration (?): a Hartwell latch installation will be more
permeable to air and water - there are more ways for the water to pass
through, if compared to a dzu or camlock. But, for a "high performance"
craft as the Zodie, I think this is no issue...
I posted a video on youtube, and when I went there to see it, I found one
more on hartwell latches.
Here are the URLs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtyj-jPIb0
This is my video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evD30x62UwU
There are several RV builder sites where they show how they used this latch
for the oil door.
I remember Don Checkoway is one of them.
Links:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=aGFydHdlbGw
http://www.milspecproducts.com/
http://www.milspecproducts.com/26002700c-lock.htm
http://www.skybolt.com/
http://www.crracing.com/custom_built/hartwell_styles.shtml
http://www.milspecproducts.com/tool.htm#mst98
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699
http://www.eberhard.com/ProductCateloge.aspx?CategoryID=12
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Dec 26, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Dec 27, 2010
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Ladies and Gents,
I'm "mad as hell"!
I hope that you will let me vent my anger on this communiqu.
It'll give you a heads up on what is coming down the pike.
I received my bill from Falcon this date for $1325 for my XL, a $372 increase over
last year. This is an increase of 39.03%!
This policy is a "Not-in Motion" coverage. The fuselage is sitting in my hangar
and the wings are in my garage, 30 miles apart from each other, while undergoing
the modification.
Now, there have been no changes in coverages, no claims, no nothing.
Global is & has been the underwriter.
Talking with Kathleen Ring, Falcon's representative, she states that due to the
high losses with the XLs have experienced (12 or ??) that the rates have gone
up. The other two companies that Falcon represents won't insure a XL unless it
has had the wing mod, whether it is in motion or not.
This just does not make sense -- my bird has not moved under it's own power for
a year and won't anytime in the very near future and they still want a higher
premium.
I asked Ms Ring if she would plead my case with the underwriter -- I received a
negative answer.
Global still insures V-tail Bonanzas, Ercoupes, Tomahawks, etc. all the other aircraft
that have and still break up in flight. You don't hear their owners complain
about outrageous premiums.
Any suggestions?????
Mack, the much poorer ol unemployed farm boy from Idaho
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324724#324724
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
Date: Dec 27, 2010
I looked for liability insurance for my 601XL and could not find one that would
write a policy at any price because my airplane has not been modified.
Chip Lennemann from Aerospace Risk Management Group, Inc. was a guest speaker at
my local EAA chapter meeting this month. Just for a lark, I asked him if he
was aware of the problem of obtaining insurance for the 601XL. He asked me to
send him an email with the details about my airplane and my pilot experience.
He checked with six insurers and found me a policy through Chartis for $319 a
year. This is a one million dollar liability policy with no hull coverage.
http://www.avnins.net/
chiplennemann(at)avnins.net
On Dec 27, 2010, at 7:30 PM, aprazer wrote:
>
> It'll give you a heads up on what is coming down the pike.
>
> I received my bill from Falcon this date for $1325 for my XL, a $372 increase
over last year. This is an increase of 39.03%!
>
> This policy is a "Not-in Motion" coverage. The fuselage is sitting in my hangar
and the wings are in my garage, 30 miles apart from each other, while undergoing
the modification.
>
> Global is & has been the underwriter.
>
> Talking with Kathleen Ring, Falcon's representative, she states that due to the
high losses with the XLs have experienced (12 or ??) that the rates have gone
up. The other two companies that Falcon represents won't insure a XL unless
it has had the wing mod, whether it is in motion or not.
>
> This just does not make sense -- my bird has not moved under it's own power for
a year and won't anytime in the very near future and they still want a higher
premium.
>
> I asked Ms Ring if she would plead my case with the underwriter -- I received
a negative answer.
>
> Global still insures V-tail Bonanzas, Ercoupes, Tomahawks, etc. all the other
aircraft that have and still break up in flight. You don't hear their owners
complain about outrageous premiums.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Bryan,
Thank you for the introduction to Aerospace Risk Management Group, Inc...
I have submitted an application this date. Let's see what happens.
Again, thanks.
Mack
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324744#324744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
Date: Dec 27, 2010
Bryan, YOU DA MAN!...Having built our own airplanes, we can rebuild them
for less than a smaller repair at a shop. Like you, all I see need for
is liability, If I break it, I know who can fix it for the cost of
materials and parts.-----I'll remember these guys when it's time.
Paul R
From: Bryan Martin<mailto:bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's
representative
>
I looked for liability insurance for my 601XL and could not find one
that would write a policy at any price because my airplane has not been
modified.
Chip Lennemann from Aerospace Risk Management Group, Inc. was a guest
speaker at my local EAA chapter meeting this month. Just for a lark, I
asked him if he was aware of the problem of obtaining insurance for the
601XL. He asked me to send him an email with the details about my
airplane and my pilot experience. He checked with six insurers and found
me a policy through Chartis for $319 a year. This is a one million
dollar liability policy with no hull coverage.
http://www.avnins.net/>
chiplennemann(at)avnins.net
On Dec 27, 2010, at 7:30 PM, aprazer wrote:
>
> It'll give you a heads up on what is coming down the pike.
>
> I received my bill from Falcon this date for $1325 for my XL, a $372
increase over last year. This is an increase of 39.03%!
>
> This policy is a "Not-in Motion" coverage. The fuselage is sitting
in my hangar and the wings are in my garage, 30 miles apart from each
other, while undergoing the modification.
>
> Global is & has been the underwriter.
>
> Talking with Kathleen Ring, Falcon's representative, she states that
due to the high losses with the XLs have experienced (12 or ??) that the
rates have gone up. The other two companies that Falcon represents won't
insure a XL unless it has had the wing mod, whether it is in motion or
not.
>
> This just does not make sense -- my bird has not moved under it's
own power for a year and won't anytime in the very near future and they
still want a higher premium.
>
> I asked Ms Ring if she would plead my case with the underwriter -- I
received a negative answer.
>
> Global still insures V-tail Bonanzas, Ercoupes, Tomahawks, etc. all
the other aircraft that have and still break up in flight. You don't
hear their owners complain about outrageous premiums.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2010
Thanks Bryan, I was hoping you were going to break the ice with those guys. I'll
be calling them in the spring when I get closer to launch and have everything
out there at the airport.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324872#324872
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Kitplanes article
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Hi guys,
There's a fine article in Kitplanes this month on the engine
failure/accident rate for aircraft engines as compared to automotive
engines. The piece does put
a decent focus on problems with cooling, re-drives, and ignition systems
(not so much the engines themselves). Though, I would have liked to have
seen failure
rates of re-drives taken by geared versus belted, the article does say
without saying that you need to know what serves your automotive engine
conversion best.
One redeeming chart does show that after 200 hours, long term, automotive
conversion failure rates are less frequent than the standard aircraft type
engines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Kitplanes article
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Larry -
Thanks for sharing.
I find the part about post 200 hour engines really interesting. On the surf
ace this would seem to indicate that after 200 hours that the kinks get wor
ked out (one way or another).
I know on my 601HDS, now that I'm approaching 200 hours, any of the issues
that you weren't sure about either have surfaced or haven't become an issue
(by the way, I'm flying behind a 3300A Jabiru). I'd bet the 200 hour mark
is also a major safety mark of improvement for experimental airplanes in ge
neral.
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hi guys,
There's a fine article in Kitplanes this month on the engine failure/accide
nt rate for aircraft engines as compared to automotive engines. The piece
does put
a decent focus on problems with cooling, re-drives, and ignition systems (
not so much the engines themselves). Though, I would have liked to have se
en failure
rates of re-drives taken by geared versus belted, the article does say with
out saying that you need to know what serves your automotive engine convers
ion best.
One redeeming chart does show that after 200 hours, long term, automotive c
onversion failure rates are less frequent than the standard aircraft type e
ngines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com>
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Kitplanes article
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Hey Larry -
What month is this article from via KitPlanes? I took a look at Feb. 2011,
Jan 2011, and Dec 2010 and can't find it ... Signed up for their digital su
bscription - pretty nice being able to access all the old issues - got some
reading to do!
Thanks,
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hi guys,
There's a fine article in Kitplanes this month on the engine failure/accide
nt rate for aircraft engines as compared to automotive engines. The piece
does put
a decent focus on problems with cooling, re-drives, and ignition systems (
not so much the engines themselves). Though, I would have liked to have se
en failure
rates of re-drives taken by geared versus belted, the article does say with
out saying that you need to know what serves your automotive engine convers
ion best.
One redeeming chart does show that after 200 hours, long term, automotive c
onversion failure rates are less frequent than the standard aircraft type e
ngines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com>
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Kitplanes article
Date: Dec 30, 2010
Don,
This was the February 2011 issue, Page 28 entitled "Safety is no accident"
by Don Wanttaja.
With 165 hours, my Stratus Subaru may get into the "safer zone" by 2012 J.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] RE: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hey Larry -
What month is this article from via KitPlanes? I took a look at Feb. 2011,
Jan 2011, and Dec 2010 and can't find it . Signed up for their digital
subscription - pretty nice being able to access all the old issues - got
some reading to do!
Thanks,
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hi guys,
There's a fine article in Kitplanes this month on the engine
failure/accident rate for aircraft engines as compared to automotive
engines. The piece does put
a decent focus on problems with cooling, re-drives, and ignition systems
(not so much the engines themselves). Though, I would have liked to have
seen failure
rates of re-drives taken by geared versus belted, the article does say
without saying that you need to know what serves your automotive engine
conversion best.
One redeeming chart does show that after 200 hours, long term, automotive
conversion failure rates are less frequent than the standard aircraft type
engines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
provided
www.aeroelectric.coma
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.c
om
; - The Zenith601-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forum============
<http://forums.matronics.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Kitplanes article
Date: Dec 31, 2010
Thanks Larry - I think I was getting focused in on looking for something th
at said Engines in the main heading and missed it!
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] RE: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Don,
This was the February 2011 issue, Page 28 entitled "Safety is no accident"
by Don Wanttaja.
With 165 hours, my Stratus Subaru may get into the "safer zone" by 2012 :).
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com>
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] RE: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hey Larry -
What month is this article from via KitPlanes? I took a look at Feb. 2011,
Jan 2011, and Dec 2010 and can't find it ... Signed up for their digital su
bscription - pretty nice being able to access all the old issues - got some
reading to do!
Thanks,
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Kitplanes article
Hi guys,
There's a fine article in Kitplanes this month on the engine failure/accide
nt rate for aircraft engines as compared to automotive engines. The piece
does put
a decent focus on problems with cooling, re-drives, and ignition systems (
not so much the engines themselves). Though, I would have liked to have se
en failure
rates of re-drives taken by geared versus belted, the article does say with
out saying that you need to know what serves your automotive engine convers
ion best.
One redeeming chart does show that after 200 hours, long term, automotive c
onversion failure rates are less frequent than the standard aircraft type e
ngines.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com<http://www.macsmachine.com>
vided
www.aeroelectric.coma href="http://www.build
ersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.builder
sbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.com>
; - The Zenith601-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forum=============<
http://forums.matronics.com>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
http://forums.matronics.com
rsbooks.com>
m>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Dec 31, 2010
Thank Bryan,
The insurance company you recommended doesn't write coverage in Idaho, but they
gave me some leads.
Mack
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325151#325151
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Jan 02, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Jan 03, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "Patrick O'Brien" <freonmen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: autopolit
Date: Jan 03, 2011
interested in purchesting a used autopolit for my 601xl.9412707802.
thanks Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Help please
Date: Jan 03, 2011
Hello Listers:
I am trying to contact Builder David Mikesell of Petaluma, CA. Does
anyone have recent contact information?
I have a phone number of 209-224-4485 and a email address of
skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com but I get no replies from either.
He has contributed to these forums.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2011
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Help please
Randy
There is a David M. from Petaluma listed on the Zenith.aero list.
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/DavidM?xg_source=profiles_memberList
You might try to leave a message for him there. He hasn't posted since sept
. 2009.
Jerry
---- "Randy L. Thwing" wrote:
>Hello Listers:=C2-I am trying to contact=C2-Builder David Mikesell of
Petaluma, CA.=C2- Does anyone have recent contact information?=C2-I hav
e a phone number of 209-224-4485 and a email address of skyguynca@skyguynca
.com=C2-but I get no replies from either.=C2-He has contributed to thes
e forums.=C2-Any help would be appreciated.=C2-Regards,=C2-Randy, Las
Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OAT Sensor
From: "Ianrat" <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Where is the best position to install an Out Side Temp Probe on a 601 XL.
Thank you
Ianrat
CH 601 XLB
Brisbane Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326084#326084
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Jan 09, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Re: OAT Sensor
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Date: Jan 09, 2011
Ian,
I mounted my OAT probe inside the right NACA intake fiberglass molding. I
figured it would have adequate outside air, not be affected by cowling temp
s nor the exhaust stream and would be out of the sunlight. It is also a sh
ort wiring run from the probe to my Dynon, which has an OAT readout. .
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Ianrat <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Sent: Sun, Jan 9, 2011 5:09 am
Subject: Zenith601-List: OAT Sensor
Where is the best position to install an Out Side Temp Probe on a 601 XL.
Thank you
Ianrat
CH 601 XLB
Brisbane Australia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326084#326084
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OAT Sensor
From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2011
That's where I put mine also.
On Jan 9, 2011, at 11:07 AM, jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:
> Ian,
>
> I mounted my OAT probe inside the right NACA intake fiberglass molding. I figured
it would have adequate outside air, not be affected by cowling temps nor
the exhaust stream and would be out of the sunlight. It is also a short wiring
run from the probe to my Dynon, which has an OAT readout. .
>
> Jay
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Tonight
Date: Jan 10, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: Walter Carey <careywf(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Engine stand for Jabiru 3300A engine?
Does anyone have a design for an engine stand for the Jabiru 3300A engine, or know
where one can be purchased at a reasonable cost?
Walt Carey
601XL (working on upgrade)
Dayton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2011
From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Subject: OAT probe
Ian,
I installed mine on the inspection cover under the right wing ( the one under the
fuel line.)
Works great and easily accessible. Add about 15 inches of wire and let it just
hang down during inspections.
Bobby
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: OAT Sensor
From: "Ianrat" <ianrat(at)powerup.com.au>
Date: Jan 10, 2011
Thank you.
I think I will go with the inlet position. This will keep the wiring short and
also out of the way.
Ianrat
CH 601 XLB
Brisbane Australia.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326350#326350
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Undercarriage failures - experience with Grove undercart?
From: "Andrew McMenamin" <andrew.mcmenamin(at)xtra.co.nz>
Date: Jan 12, 2011
Following on from a previous post, we have had repeated failures with the Comlet
glass legs on our XL 601. We are investigating installing the Grove one piece
aluminium legs. This is heavier but we can accept that. Does anyone have
any experience, good or bad, with these legs on the XL 601?
The Comlet legs install into a box fitting. Has anyone retrofitted Grove legs
to an XL 601 with individual glass legs? If so, can you advise us how it went
and what to watch out for?
Thanks
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326653#326653
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Jan 16, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Room
Date: Jan 17, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Dynon Pitot
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
I have a question for those of you who installed the Dynon Pitot (unheated). How
far back from the leading edge did you install it? Also, how far out from
the wing root?
Thanks!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327810#327810
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Pitot
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 21, 2011
Tim,
I remember talking to the folks at Dynon about keeping it away from the boundary
layer, so it sticks out a ways from the wing surface but it is in the same position
on the wing as the zenith design calls for.
Here is a link to the log entry:
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=27206&row2
The 4" length on that entry refers to the length of the pitot tube holder I fabbed
up.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327850#327850
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Pitot
From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2011
Tim,
I installed my Dynon pitot immediately aft of the wing spar just to the outside
of rear rib number 5 on the left wing. I believe this is the location recommended
by Zenith. A pic of the install location is below.
--------
Dave Gardea
601XL - Corvair
working on wiring panel and upgrade kit
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327926#327926
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitot_595.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Pitot
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Jan 22, 2011
Thanks guys, that's just what I needed to know. You both did a nice job of fabricating
a mount for the pitot.
Dave, would you happen to remember the principal dimensions (or AC Spruce part
number) of the streamlined tubing you used? Looks like 4130 to me.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327947#327947
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon Pitot
From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2011
Tim, glad to be of help .. but I did not fabricate my pitot mast like Ron did (nice job Ron!) I purchased one from SafeAir1 at http://www.safeair1.com/Pmast_1.htm
--------
Dave Gardea
CH650 - Corvair
99% complete and too many things to finish in a cold hangar
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327961#327961
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat
Date: Jan 23, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Saddle
From: Carroll Jernigan <trainnut01(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 24, 2011
Has anyone had problems with the fiberglass saddle from Zenith? (6B21-5) M
ine lacks over an inch being wide enough to fit at the front. The back is f
ine. I've spent several hours during this last week-end re-checking every t
hing else at the rear of the fuselage and can't find anything else wrong. M
ine is 7 1/2 inches wide but when placed in position it looks like it needs
to be closer to 8 3/4. If someone can tell me whats wrong I sure would be
appreciative.
Carroll Jernigan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 24, 2011
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Saddle
Hi Carroll,
Fiberglass parts are notorious for this kind of problem. They don't
hold their size and shape under varying conditions. They are ok when
held in place with rivets.
You can bend fiberglass parts like taffy if you heat them up the right
amount. I use a hot air gun for this purpose. You need to keep the
heater moving around so you don't burn the fiberglass. It is not as
difficult as it sounds. Just heat it up (wearing gloves) and apply
force. When it is ready it will bend to the new shape. Then all you
need to do is hold it in that shape while it cools.
Good luck,
Paul
XL upgrading fuselage
On 1/24/2011 10:29 AM, Carroll Jernigan wrote:
> Has anyone had problems with the fiberglass saddle from Zenith?
> (6B21-5) Mine lacks over an inch being wide enough to fit at the
> front. The back is fine. I've spent several hours during this last
> week-end re-checking every thing else at the rear of the fuselage and
> can't find anything else wrong. Mine is 7 1/2 inches wide but when
> placed in position it looks like it needs to be closer to 8 3/4. If
> someone can tell me whats wrong I sure would be appreciative.
>
> Carroll Jernigan
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jan 24, 2011
Subject: Re: Saddle
You could probably make a replacement with aluminum...
Carlos
On 24 January 2011 13:29, Carroll Jernigan wrote:
> Has anyone had problems with the fiberglass saddle from Zenith? (6B21-5)
> Mine lacks over an inch being wide enough to fit at the front. The back is
> fine. I've spent several hours during this last week-end re-checking every
> thing else at the rear of the fuselage and can't find anything else wrong.
> Mine is 7 1/2 inches wide but when placed in position it looks like it needs
> to be closer to 8 3/4. If someone can tell me whats wrong I sure would be
> appreciative.
>
> Carroll Jernigan
>
> **
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herb Heaton" <heatonhe36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Saddle
Date: Jan 24, 2011
Carroll,
I have the same problem with the saddle I got from Zenith. It has a
3/4" gap on both sides at the front. When I asked Zenith about the
problem They said that was the way they came from the supplier and I
should be able to fix it. I shouldn't have to fix it. It should be
supplied from the manufacturer, cut to the proper size, or at least
oversize so we can trim it to fit.
Since I am building from plans anyway, I will just make a mold from the
saddle I've got and make a new part the proper size. Sometimes you've
just got to do what you've got to do.
Herb Heaton
601XL, Turbo Subaru
Mods almost done
---- Original Message -----
From: Carroll Jernigan<mailto:trainnut01(at)aol.com>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:29 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Saddle
Has anyone had problems with the fiberglass saddle from Zenith?
(6B21-5) Mine lacks over an inch being wide enough to fit at the front.
The back is fine. I've spent several hours during this last week-end
re-checking every thing else at the rear of the fuselage and can't find
anything else wrong. Mine is 7 1/2 inches wide but when placed in
position it looks like it needs to be closer to 8 3/4. If someone can
tell me whats wrong I sure would be appreciative.
Carroll Jernigan
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Saddle
Date: Jan 24, 2011
I had problems with mine too; finally I said the hell with it, and made
one of fiberglass. Used the rear portion of the saddle ( the part that
fit), added an aluminum fairing over the front part, and laid it on the
plane. Then, after application of wax as a release agent, I laid wet
fiberglass strips on, and added fairings around the front of the
stabilizer, thereby covering the gaps. Sort of like the RV uses. After
enough to hold it together, I removed it, laid on enough for strength,
and sanded the whole thing down to what I wanted. It didn't take long to
do.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Carroll Jernigan<mailto:trainnut01(at)aol.com>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 12:29 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Saddle
Has anyone had problems with the fiberglass saddle from Zenith?
(6B21-5) Mine lacks over an inch being wide enough to fit at the front.
The back is fine. I've spent several hours during this last week-end
re-checking every thing else at the rear of the fuselage and can't find
anything else wrong. Mine is 7 1/2 inches wide but when placed in
position it looks like it needs to be closer to 8 3/4. If someone can
tell me whats wrong I sure would be appreciative.
Carroll Jernigan
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Jan 30, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Re: Falcon Insurance Agency -- EAA's representative
From: "aprazer" <aprazer(at)cableone.net>
Date: Feb 06, 2011
Ladies and Gents,
I have to report that Falcon Insurance (Global Aerospace) and I have come to a
fair conclusion and it is all good!
I am now able to insure my bird for liability "only" for a more reasonable fee,
similar to what most of you are paying.
It is too bad that the XL has been the recipient of an imaginary & derogatory reputation.
Does anyone know if the Cirrus has developed a reputation for all of their crashes
in the last two years?
I want to thank all of you for allowing me to vent my frustrations.
Mack
--------
The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329887#329887
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Feb 06, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Feb 07, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: Determining Vx
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Date: Feb 08, 2011
So Vy and best glide are easy to find, and I'm guessing that Vx is about 85% of
Vy under "normal" conditions, although Vx=Vy at service ceiling.
How does one determine Vx? Any thoughts. Seems to be about 67kts for my bird,
so Im guessing Vy is about 57 kts, I'd just like to know how it's determined.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330233#330233
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2011
From: Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Determining Vx
Mike,
I will take a stab at it. I've been searching for the source of the information,
but haven't found it.
When doing your rate of climb flight testing (ROC), you end up with the ROC for
various airspeeds. These should be put into a spreadsheet and graphed, plotting
ROC on the Y-axis and airspeed on the X-axis. Ideally you should get a parabola.
The Vy corresponds with the max ROC of the parobola.
Vx is determined by extending a line from origin of the graph (0 ROC and 0 AS)
so that it is tangent to the parabola. This is usually pretty close to Vy.
I also have a 601HDS with a 912S. My Vy was 70mph true airspeed and Vx was 65 mph
TAS. This was at 3500 ft on a 95 degree day. I haven't rerun the test since
it has been cold.
Jerry
N316JL, 70 hours
---- MHerder wrote:
>
> So Vy and best glide are easy to find, and I'm guessing that Vx is about 85%
of Vy under "normal" conditions, although Vx=Vy at service ceiling.
>
> How does one determine Vx? Any thoughts. Seems to be about 67kts for my bird,
so Im guessing Vy is about 57 kts, I'd just like to know how it's determined.
>
> --------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2011
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Determining Vx
Mike
One of the books on my wish list a couple of years ago was "Flight Testing
Homebuilt Aircraft," by Vaughan Askue. My daughter and son-in-law gave me
the book for Christmas.
I haven't looked at that book much, because my build was interrupted and
flight testing is far away. Askue has a detailed procedure for determining
best ROC (Vy) as a function of altitude. It looks like a well thought out
approach.
And, my favorite flight training book, Machado's "Private Pilot Handbook,"
in chapter 15, suggests a procedure for determining the best angle of climb
speed (Vx) from the ROC curves that result from Askue's procedure.
You might take a look at those two books. Good luck with your flight testing.
Terry
>So Vy and best glide are easy to find, and I'm guessing that Vx is about
>85% of Vy under "normal" conditions, although Vx=Vy at service ceiling.
>
>How does one determine Vx? Any thoughts. Seems to be about 67kts for my
>bird, so Im guessing Vy is about 57 kts, I'd just like to know how it's
>determined.
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2011
From: Keith Ashcraft <ch701builder(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Determining Vx
Look at the attached file and see if this is what you are looking for. Found it
on the EAA.org homebuilders site.
Keith
CH701 - scratch (working on cabin area)
________________________________
From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 7:30:47 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Determining Vx
So Vy and best glide are easy to find, and I'm guessing that Vx is about 85% of
Vy under "normal" conditions, although Vx=Vy at service ceiling.
How does one determine Vx? Any thoughts. Seems to be about 67kts for my bird,
so Im guessing Vy is about 57 kts, I'd just like to know how it's determined.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330233#330233
Be a PS3 game guru.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2011
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Determining Vx
Good find, Keith
That article only addresses determining Vy. However, it is 1 of a series of
about 5 articles. One of the other articles describes the Vx calculation.
Kolano appears to confirm Askue's procedure and the Vx determination
suggested by Machado.
Terry
>Look at the attached file and see if this is what you are looking for.
>Found it on the EAA.org homebuilders site.
>
>Keith
>CH701 - scratch (working on cabin area)
>
>
>From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 7:30:47 PM
>Subject: Zenith601-List: Determining Vx
>
>
>The fish are biting.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Determining Vx
Date: Feb 09, 2011
If you have a RV builder nearby, there is a nice section in their builder's
manual (?) that they get that talks about Vx/Vy and how to get the numbers
during your test flights.
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Determining Vx
Good find, Keith
That article only addresses determining Vy. However, it is 1 of a series of
about 5 articles. One of the other articles describes the Vx calculation.
Kolano appears to confirm Askue's procedure and the Vx determination sugges
ted by Machado.
Terry
Look at the attached file and see if this is what you are looking for. Foun
d it on the EAA.org homebuilders site.
Keith
CH701 - scratch (working on cabin area)
From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com<mailto:michaelherder(at)beckgroup.c
om>>
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 7:30:47 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Determining Vx
The fish are biting.
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: l filler flap
From: "K Dilks" <kevindilks(at)btinernet.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2011
Can any one who has used the comlet molded cowls for a Rotax engined XL tell me
what they did to hinge and fit a catch for the oil filler flap.
The cowl only comes with a prepared hole, i have made a aluminium flap but cannot
find a hing or catch suitable.
Thanks
Kevin
UK
--------
Back home .................
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330458#330458
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leroy Wheeler" <flyboy3847(at)onecommail.com>
Subject: l filler flap
Date: Feb 10, 2011
We used a flat aluminum extruded hinge and put it on the under side if the
cowl and the flap. We used simple Dzus fasteners to hold it down.
Leroy Wheeler
601HD plans built been flying 150+ hours. With a Subaru EA-81.
_____
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K Dilks
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:46 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: l filler flap
Can any one who has used the comlet molded cowls for a Rotax engined XL tell
me what they did to hinge and fit a catch for the oil filler flap.
The cowl only comes with a prepared hole, i have made a aluminium flap but
cannot find a hing or catch suitable.
Thanks
Kevin
UK
--------
Back home .................
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330458#330458
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2011
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44(at)rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: l filler flap
Hi Kevin
'Good to hear from you again! It sounds like you are making good
progress--I wish I could say the same. I'm moving slowly, but, at least,
I'm moving.
I'm sure there are many solutions to this. You might take a look at Larry
McFarland's approach
http://macsmachine.com/
Click the Cowling link, and you'll find some photos that pretty clearly
show what Larry did. There are other approaches using hinges that appear to
be similar to invisible cabinet hinges.
I'll also attach a couple of photos that I took at Zenair's Open Hangar
Days 2007. They do not show the mechanism, but both appear to use simple
piano hinges and Dzus type fasteners for the closure. 'Sorry, but I do not
know who owned those 601's.
Terry
>Can any one who has used the comlet molded cowls for a Rotax engined XL
>tell me what they did to hinge and fit a catch for the oil filler flap.
>The cowl only comes with a prepared hole, i have made a aluminium flap but
>cannot find a hing or catch suitable.
>
>Thanks
>Kevin
> UK
Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Static Port
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Feb 10, 2011
For those of you who installed the dynon pitot/AOA tube - where did you install
the static port? Did you go with one or two?
Cessnas usually install the ports on the side of the fuselage, just behind the
cowling. That makes for a short run to the instrument panel. In other aircraft
I have also seen them installed on the tailcone.
Recommendations?
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330531#330531
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Static Port
Date: Feb 11, 2011
I tried the pilot side of the fuselage - had bad readings, tried the passenger
side, had better but still bad. Tried to tee them together - had better still
yet but still a bit off. Opened up to the cockpit and have just about perfect
- go figure!!!
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Juhl
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:57 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Static Port
For those of you who installed the dynon pitot/AOA tube - where did you install
the static port? Did you go with one or two?
Cessnas usually install the ports on the side of the fuselage, just behind the
cowling. That makes for a short run to the instrument panel. In other aircraft
I have also seen them installed on the tailcone.
Recommendations?
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330531#330531
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2011
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
Subject: Re: Static Port
Tim,
I used the Grumman approach and used two ports midway back on the
fuselage. The result seems to be very well behaved in a slip.
On 02/10/2011 7:56 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl"
>
> For those of you who installed the dynon pitot/AOA tube - where did you install
the static port? Did you go with one or two?
>
> Cessnas usually install the ports on the side of the fuselage, just behind the
cowling. That makes for a short run to the instrument panel. In other aircraft
I have also seen them installed on the tailcone.
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Tearing wings apart for modification
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330531#330531
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Static Port
From: "dgardea(at)gmail.com" <dgardea(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 11, 2011
Tim, I installed two static ports on either side of the fuselage just below the
aft portion of the canopy about in line with the 601XL step. From there it was
easy to route both lines to the Dynon ADAHRS and forward up the center console.
I have not flown yet so don't know what results this will yield.
--------
Dave Gardea
CH650 - Corvair
99% complete and too many things to finish in a cold hangar
http://home.comcast.net/~davegardea/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330577#330577
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: TA-897 RUBBER TRIM
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Feb 12, 2011
Hi gang
anyone know where to get another 500mm of the stuff. I guess I can get it off Zenith
but did not want to bother them with such a small order..Can I get it from
Spruce?
Yes its for the side cover..
Chris..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330728#330728
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: TA-897 RUBBER TRIM
From: "Scotsman" <jaroberts(at)bdo.co.za>
Date: Feb 12, 2011
Hi Chris,
I ordered my stuff from Spruce (don't know if it is exactly the same stuff that
you are referring to but here's the link any way:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rubberchannel.php
Cheers
James
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330856#330856
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Feb 13, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: The "Big Tap"
From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
Date: Feb 17, 2011
I just received the loan of the "Big Tap" from Zenith to clean up the threads in
my tank filler opening after I had to cut the filler neck out to remove the
tank during wing modification.
I appreciate Zenith making it available but I thought I would share with those
of you who might be in a similar situation a little advice that could save you
some cost in shipping it back and insurance.
The kit Zenith sends contains a lot more than you probably need or want. In addition
to the tap, they send a big drill and chamfer which you wouldn't need unless
you can't get your filler neck to fit flush to the wing. I think that would
only be a problem if you had an early production tank or were doing your own
tank welding. If your old filler neck fit, the new one will too.
I've attached a pix of what is in the kit. If you just need to clean up the threads
like I do, you might just want the thread cleaner and the tap.
Good luck!
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Tearing wings apart for modification
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331340#331340
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/big_tap_208.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 02/17/11
From: Rich C-Mail <4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 18, 2011
Hey Tim,
I have the same issue. I had to cut the neck out.
What is the suggested sealing material to use on the threads once you go back together.
Thanks
- Rich
On Feb 18, 2011, at 1:58 AM, Zenith601-List Digest Server
wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Zenith601-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Zenith601-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-02-17&Archive=Zenith601
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-02-17&Archive=Zenith601
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Zenith601-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 02/17/11: 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:51 AM - The "Big Tap" (Tim Juhl)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Zenith601-List: The "Big Tap"
> From: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net>
>
>
> I just received the loan of the "Big Tap" from Zenith to clean up the threads
in
> my tank filler opening after I had to cut the filler neck out to remove the
> tank during wing modification.
>
> I appreciate Zenith making it available but I thought I would share with those
> of you who might be in a similar situation a little advice that could save you
> some cost in shipping it back and insurance.
>
> The kit Zenith sends contains a lot more than you probably need or want. In addition
> to the tap, they send a big drill and chamfer which you wouldn't need unless
> you can't get your filler neck to fit flush to the wing. I think that would
> only be a problem if you had an early production tank or were doing your own
> tank welding. If your old filler neck fit, the new one will too.
>
> I've attached a pix of what is in the kit. If you just need to clean up the
threads
> like I do, you might just want the thread cleaner and the tap.
>
> Good luck!
> Tim
>
> --------
> ______________
> CFII
> Champ L16A flying
> Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
> Tearing wings apart for modification
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331340#331340
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/big_tap_208.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2011
From: 601corvair <airvair601(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Is site traffic down?
Hello all:
I am one of those "digestors" who gets a daily list summary. Although I have no
empirical data to support this assumption, it appears to me that the traffic on
this list is way down. Have people gone some here else? If so, where?
Perhaps all the questions have been answered.
phill hartig
601 HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fritz" <klondike(at)megalink.net>
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
Date: Feb 19, 2011
----- Original Message -----
From: 601corvair
To: zenith601-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Is site traffic down?
Hello all:
I am one of those "digestors" who gets a daily list summary. Although
I have no empirical data to support this assumption, it appears to me
that the traffic on this list is way down. Have people gone some here
else? If so, where? Perhaps all the questions have been answered.
phill hartig
601 HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "fritz" <klondike(at)megalink.net>
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
Date: Feb 19, 2011
I said the same thing about a month ago and folks here didn't like it.
Matronics list now, mostly a waste of time----try Zenith site
Fritz
----- Original Message -----
From: 601corvair
To: zenith601-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 8:07 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Is site traffic down?
Hello all:
I am one of those "digestors" who gets a daily list summary. Although
I have no empirical data to support this assumption, it appears to me
that the traffic on this list is way down. Have people gone some here
else? If so, where? Perhaps all the questions have been answered.
phill hartig
601 HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
Hello, Phill
Yes, traffic volume went down for a number of reasons.
Personally, I am waiting for the end of winter before moving the project
into the garage.
Cheers
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 19 February 2011 08:07, 601corvair wrote:
> Hello all:
>
> I am one of those "digestors" who gets a daily list summary. Although I
> have no empirical data to support this assumption, it appears to me that the
> traffic on this list is way down. Have people gone some here else? If so,
> where? Perhaps all the questions have been answered.
>
> phill hartig
> 601 HDS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
From: "merlin" <cw4jasper(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 19, 2011
I admit I haven't used it much lately however I do think it is still a very valuable
resource. I like the search feature better than that of the Zenith builders
site.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331520#331520
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2011
I still check here every couple days.
I find these informative:
Matronics Forums
www.zenith.aero
Zenith Chat on Monday evenings at http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
Things do seem to slow down in winter. I think we'll get a burst of activity as
it warms up, plus people getting their XL's back in the air after their upgrades.
I might be slow, but my upgrade set me back a solid year. Probably other
guys out there just as slow as me.
- Pat
--------
Patrick Hoyt
601XLb/Corvair
N63PZ - 99.999% done....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331526#331526
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2011
Traffic might be down here but I am making progress and just might fly it this
year. I do check here regular but haven't contributed much.
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331581#331581
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2011
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
Traffic may be down, but the content is more appropriate than it once was.
Now that we have resolution to the design flaws in the Zodiac XL we
don't need to discuss that any more. We also don't need all the
personal attacks that went along with that. Now all we get is cordial
builder comments, questions, and answers.
Progress happens . . .
Paul
XL nearing upgrade completion.
On 2/19/2011 6:22 PM, Ron Lendon wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon"
>
> Traffic might be down here but I am making progress and just might fly it this
year. I do check here regular but haven't contributed much.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
> Corvair Engine Prints:
> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331581#331581
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is site traffic down?
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2011
Just purchased my tickets for LA to Chicago to attend Air Venture 2011!
Only $92.09 each way!
Hope to meet more of you guys this year....
Sabrina
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331597#331597
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2011
From: kaimaki(at)comcast.net
Subject: 601XL tail for sale
Finished rudder and horizontal stabilizer for sale.
Have to sell and best offer by the end of February can have it all. I will consider
offers for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer separately.
Please contact me off-line at kaimaki(at)comcast.net for picture and more details.
I am located in Portland, Oregon.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Feb 20, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Feb 21, 2011
Subject: AIRVENTURE
From: David Brown <dwbbrown(at)gmail.com>
Sabrina, Why don't you fly your 601 to Osh. There is talk of a large
group zeniths flying in together and a site reserved so that we can park
together.
What state and condition is your airplane in?
David
601XLB 250hrs, 70 hrs since upgrade
N601EX
> Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Is site traffic down?
> From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
>
>
> Just purchased my tickets for LA to Chicago to attend Air Venture 2011!
>
> Only $92.09 each way!
>
> Hope to meet more of you guys this year....
>
> Sabrina
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: AIRVENTURE
Date: Feb 21, 2011
Where can I find out more info about this? I heard about this a few months
ago and hadn't heard any recent status updates.... I flew in from Arizona a
few years back - a bit of journey in my Zodie 601HDS, especially if there
is weather, but would definitely do it again if a bunch of Zodie drivers ar
e flying in.
Thanks,
Don
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Brown
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: AIRVENTURE
Sabrina, Why don't you fly your 601 to Osh. There is talk of a large gro
up zeniths flying in together and a site reserved so that we can park toget
her.
What state and condition is your airplane in?
David
601XLB 250hrs, 70 hrs since upgrade
N601EX
Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Is site traffic down?
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com<mailto:chicago2paris(at)msn.com>>
Just purchased my tickets for LA to Chicago to attend Air Venture 2011!
Only $92.09 each way!
Hope to meet more of you guys this year....
Sabrina
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AIRVENTURE
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2011
She is airworthy, but sitting in Chicago. I am in Boston. I will have the oil
changed, cables tensioned and a conditional inspection done on her before I
fly to Chicago in mid-March for a Sport Aviation photo shoot.
I am currently working up an MIT Technology Paper on the CH601XL design and its
recent history (last 5 years--since I started my build in March of 2006). If
anyone would like to e-mail me data, information or photos re: XL incidents
over the past 5 years, I would appreciate it. Fermilab(at)MIT.edu
As to Oshkosh 2011, I already have my tickets from LAX to ORD and back. I get
in around midnight the last Friday of Air Venture and fly back early Sunday morning.
I was not planning, at this point, on flying her in and out the same day.
That does not mean that someone else could not fly her in before I arrive.
We will see.
My official job title at Phantom Works is "Boeing Aerodynamics Engineer 202."
Not bad for a 17 year old, or as Ben would say: Not bad for a girl. :O)
I noticed Ben write recently, but I miss Juan, Scott, Gig and Jay... where are
you guys?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331910#331910
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/technology_paper_101.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2011
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: AIRVENTURE
Hi Sabrina,
I should have good pictures of just about every part (installed) in the
XL. If you have any particular part you are interested in for your
project, just let me know. Of course, I don't have accident pictures.
Paul
Nearing completion of upgrade.
On 2/22/2011 7:58 PM, Sabrina wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
>
> She is airworthy, but sitting in Chicago. I am in Boston. I will have the
oil changed, cables tensioned and a conditional inspection done on her before
I fly to Chicago in mid-March for a Sport Aviation photo shoot.
>
> I am currently working up an MIT Technology Paper on the CH601XL design and its
recent history (last 5 years--since I started my build in March of 2006).
If anyone would like to e-mail me data, information or photos re: XL incidents
over the past 5 years, I would appreciate it. Fermilab(at)MIT.edu
>
> As to Oshkosh 2011, I already have my tickets from LAX to ORD and back. I get
in around midnight the last Friday of Air Venture and fly back early Sunday
morning. I was not planning, at this point, on flying her in and out the same
day. That does not mean that someone else could not fly her in before I arrive.
We will see.
>
> My official job title at Phantom Works is "Boeing Aerodynamics Engineer 202."
Not bad for a 17 year old, or as Ben would say: Not bad for a girl. :O)
>
> I noticed Ben write recently, but I miss Juan, Scott, Gig and Jay... where are
you guys?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842(at)cox.net>
Subject: Sight gauge
Date: Feb 24, 2011
Can anyone suggest a clear, 1/4" OD plastic tubing for a sight gauge that is
not affected by gasoline? My tubing turns yellow in a month or so and makes
it difficult to see the fuel level. Don't want to use glass because of the
danger of brakeage and an in flight fuel leak.
Bob, Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Year of the Zenith
Date: Feb 24, 2011
Hi Everyone,
Here is what we have so far for the "Year of the Zenith" for Oshkosh 2011.
Let's get a conversation going and find out where you would like to go from
here.
AIRCRAFT PARKING
Tom Poberezny is putting together a parking place for 50 Zenith airplanes at
Oshkosh 2011. I have asked specifically for the spot on the north side of
the homebuilt parking area. That way we are a short distance from the Zenith
sales area. Now, it's time to see how many of you would like to park your
planes together at EAA. The first time I posted this, I had about 15 E-mail
commitments! Here is what I would like you to do.
If you plan to bring your Zenith to Oshkosh, please send this information to
me by E-mail at backstagelive(at)gmail.com. I will keep your E-mail address and
send you updates as time goes by.
Name / Address / Phone / Do you have a cell phone for Oshkosh - give us that
number.
E-mail address
N-number
Number of people in your group
Would you consider flying your plane in the Homebuilt Showcase this year?
If you are not planning to bring your plane to Oshkosh, but you still would
like to participate in Zenith activities and want to keep updates, send me
an E-mail to backstagelive(at)gmail.com.
AEROSHELL PRESENTATION
Tom has mentioned that he would like to do a presentation in Aero Shell
Square with Chris, and have one of each of his designs available for a photo
session. So far we have 2 outstanding airplanes that have committed. Ken
Couillard from Oshkosh would let us use his CH 300 Tri Z, and Al Beyer would
like to use his 601 HDS. If you would like to have your airplane in the
picture, please contact Sebastian at Zenith. We will need every model Zenith
except for the ones listed above.
LODGING
If you are looking for lodging for this years convention, and you are a
Zenith builder or enthusiast,
the University of Oshkosh Gruenhagen Hall will reserve one entire floor (40
rooms). There is already a waiting list for these rooms. There is a time
limit on this offer. THIS OFFER EXPIRES MONDAY, MARCH 7TH! The cost is $55
per night. Max 2 to a room. After March 7th, the rooms go back to the pool
of people on the reservation list. If we can get these reservations in soon,
we can have the entire floor to ourselves! Transportation is available to
and from the University to the EAA on a very regular basis.
If you would like to stay at Gruenhagen Hall, please call me at
920-237-1450. I have an application form I can E-mail you. When calling,
please leave me your name, phone number, and how many will be in the room.
AIRCRAFT REVIEW DURING SHOW
Tom mentioned that it would be fun to have a Zenith Aircraft Review before
one of the air shows. This would be a lot of fun, very good for Zenith
sales, and very easy to set up. Please let me know if you would like to fly
your plane in the review.
OTHER STUFF!
If we have a full 50 airplane commitment, which I am almost certain we will,
should we look into memorabilia like hats and T shirts that have "Year of
the Zenith" or something like that printed on them? Should the factory
sponsor an award for best homebuilt Zenith on the field? If you do, Zenith
can give the award in the Theatre in the Woods during the last day of the
convention along with the regular EAA awards. It would be fun to have the
Chris Heintz workmanship award given every year at EAA on a Zenith product!
What are your thoughts?
Should the people that fly their Zenith airplanes to Oshkosh get a plaque or
cup? This would be a great thing to give out and we could find an aviation
parts vender that would support this financially. Do you know of any
Aircraft type business that would fund such a project?
Thanks everyone! Your input and comments will be greatly appreciated. This
will be a great year at EAA for Zenith builders. Please let me know if you
are coming as soon as possible.
Joe Scheibinger
2809 Scenic Drive
Oshkosh, WI 54904
920-237-1450
backstagelive(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Zeniths to Oshkosh
Date: Feb 26, 2011
I just came back from a meeting at EAA with Tom Poberezny, and Adam Smith,
Museum Director. What an incredible meeting! I hope you are all sitting
down!
We changed the name of the event from "Year of the Zenith" to "Zeniths to
Oshkosh."
Thursday is Burt Rutan Day, Wednesday is Navy Aviation day, Tuesday is Bob
Hoover Day, and Monday will be designated as "Chris Heintz" day! Monday will
be one of the biggest days because of the Ford Motor Company bringing in REO
Speedwagon!
EAA will be giving us parking for 50 airplanes (5 rows of 10). Tom says if
we go over 50, not to worry, EAA will try to get us a little more space. We
are looking at 2 spots on the field, and as soon as I have more information
from EAA, I will post a map of the field with our location.
On Monday, July 25th late in the morning, somewhere around 11:00 AM, EAA
would like one of each of Chris's designs to come to the Aeroshell Square
for a group photo and a presentation to Chris from Tom Poberezny. After the
celebration, Tom would like to have planes fly the circuit on runway 18/36
for a flight display with someone from Zenith as a spokesperson at the
announcers stand! Then after the Zenith parade, the aircraft can go back to
their original parking area.
There have been many members volunteering to be in the homebuilders
showcase. Zenith will interview each volunteer and set pilot requirement. We
may have to use some sort of lottery system!
EAA wants to do a feature article on Chris for the EAA Newspaper and for
Sport Aviation. EAA would like Chris to give a speech at the Homebuilders
Hangar sometime during the week.
EAA will be working on some kind of a jacket patch to honor Zenith pilots
that flew their airplanes in. They are doing that for the Rutan planes too.
EAA discourages private companies giving awards for best of anything.
However, they encourage participation awards. Maybe we can work up some kind
of plaque with the pictures of your plane on it. They did that for me when I
had my Ercoupe. This is something we can think of a few months down the
road.
We will be putting up a central page on the Zenith website we can all go and
get more information on the Oshkosh event.
There are two very large indoor places that will hold 300+ people for
meetings, dinner parties, etc, right on the grounds of EAA. The nice part is
Robbins Restaurant is licensed to cater on the grounds of EAA. So if it
looks like we might outgrow our builder's dinner, we might be able to have
it at EAA and keep the same restaurant! More on this in a couple of weeks.
VERY IMPORTANT
WE HAVE 10 ROOMS LEFT AT GRUENHAGEN HALL! Gruenhagen Hall is the college
dorm at UWO. These rooms are nice, they have 2 beds, and they are only $55
per day! The nice part is the transportation. Busses run all day long and
will pick you up at the university and drop you off right at Oshkosh tower!
I reserved 30 rooms a while back for Zenith builders and enthusiasts. There
are 30 rooms to a floor so we can all be together. Here is the bad news.
They want all reservations turned in by Friday! They have over 100 EAA
members on a waiting list!
Here is what I need form you. If you would like a room at Gruenhagen, you
can call me at 920-237-1450, or E-mail me your name, phone, address, and
credit card number.
If you want to park your plane in the Zenith Showcase, send me your name,
address, N number, phone number. We have 15 airplanes confirmed so far.
If you are a Zenith builder or enthusiast not bringing your airplane to
Oshkosh, but would like to keep up with activities, send me your E-mail
address to backstagelive(at)gmail.com.
5 months to go!
Joe Scheibinger
2809 Scenic Drive
Oshkosh, WI 54904
920-237-1450
backstagelive(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Feb 28, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Subject: comant 121 attachment
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Mar 03, 2011
Gang I am about to install my VHF ant on the top rear fuse.
I plan to make a bracket and rivet that under the top skin.. I was going to use
.025 and make a plate 3'x4' and rivet that to the skin.
Is 025 thou good enough or should I go higher?
Chris.
Anyone with a picture or size of the bracket they used?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332604#332604
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: comant 121 attachment
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Date: Mar 03, 2011
Chris,
My top rear skin is .016". I used a .025" doubler for the comm antenna. I
t made the antenna very stable.
Jay
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: comant 121 attachment
From: "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Mar 05, 2011
Thanks Jay.
I see you put yours inside the rear baggage area. I was thinking of putting mine
behind that bulkhead and leave the baggage are free
Thoughts anyone?? I would still have to add a doubler. I was thinking of about
.025
Chris.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332842#332842
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: comant 121 attachment
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Date: Mar 05, 2011
Chris,
I started with the location of the ELT antenna. That location was driven b
y the location of the ELT and the length of the cable. that came with it.
I wanted the ELT accessible in the baggage area. So juggling the location
of the ELT, cable length and antenna, placed the antenna just forward of th
e middle bulkhead. The recommended distance between antennas placed the co
mm antenna forward of the baggage bulkhead. That baggage area is so deep t
hat I don't think I would ever be stowing anything that far to the rear, so
I wasn't concerned about the antenna cable being there. There's more than
one way to skin a cat, but that's how I did it.
Jay
Thanks Jay.
I see you put yours inside the rear baggage area. I was thinking of putting
mine
behind that bulkhead and leave the baggage are free
Thoughts anyone?? I would still have to add a doubler. I was thinking of ab
out
.025
Chris.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gpjann1(at)netzero.com" <gpjann1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Mar 06, 2011
Subject: Wanted To Buy..
Does anyone have any of the followig items for sale?
601HD outboard wing panels kit, full kit or partial
8 gal header tank
email or phone Greg 770-277-1637
gpjann1(at)netzero.com
____________________________________________________________
Wall Streets Secrets Revealed
The secrets that Wall Street Traders Don't want the public to know
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d73be2e154cb2127e6st04vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
Date: Mar 06, 2011
I'm finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are the two
ads I'll be placing on Barnstormers:
ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUILD KIT
For Sale
$14,000
Fuselage, all flight surfaces, canopy and landing gear built. 100 hours of
labor complete. Easy installation of upgrade as the wings are open and the
center spar still accessible.
JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601
For Sale
$1900
Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle, prop
extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on a 750 (check
with Jabiru USA)
Pictures available, The plane is in Park City, UT.
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Mar 06, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: Don Honabach <don.honabach(at)pcperfect.com>
Subject: Wanted To Buy..
Date: Mar 07, 2011
I might have an 8 gallon header tank - I have a few parts left over from my HDS
project, but it will take me a few days to check out the hangar and see for sure.
If I do, if you pick up shipping and packaging costs, it's yours.
Thanks,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gpjann1(at)netzero.com
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wanted To Buy..
-->
Does anyone have any of the followig items for sale?
601HD outboard wing panels kit, full kit or partial
8 gal header tank
email or phone Greg 770-277-1637
gpjann1(at)netzero.com
____________________________________________________________
Wall Streets Secrets Revealed
The secrets that Wall Street Traders Don't want the public to know http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d73be2e154cb2127e6st04vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: Wanted To Buy..
Date: Mar 07, 2011
I have the larger (16 gallon?) header tank. Anyone is welcome to it for $200
plus the cost of shipping from Utah. I think Zenith charges $464.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Wanted To Buy..
I might have an 8 gallon header tank - I have a few parts left over from my
HDS project, but it will take me a few days to check out the hangar and see
for sure. If I do, if you pick up shipping and packaging costs, it's yours.
Thanks,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gpjann1(at)netzero.com
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Zenith601-List: Wanted To Buy..
-->
Does anyone have any of the followig items for sale?
601HD outboard wing panels kit, full kit or partial
8 gal header tank
email or phone Greg 770-277-1637
gpjann1(at)netzero.com
____________________________________________________________
Wall Streets Secrets Revealed
The secrets that Wall Street Traders Don't want the public to know
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d73be2e154cb2127e6st04vuc
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2(at)primus.ca>
Subject: 601HDS for sale
Date: Mar 07, 2011
My 601HDS Rotax 912 is for sale at Oshawa airport near Toronto. TT is 750 hrs.
Trike undercarriage,
AH, Garmin 95.
Anyone with interest or knows someone who would be, send email to daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
I'm still flying it.
Dave Austin 416-282-5252
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <paulrod36(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
Date: Mar 07, 2011
Craig, a $14,000 airframe is pretty well within the ballpark, but I'll
bet they'll be beating down the door for that $1900 Jab 3000.........
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne<mailto:craig(at)craigandjean.com>
To: craig(at)craigandjean.com
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for
sale
I'm finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are
the two ads I'll be placing on Barnstormers:
ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUILD KIT
For Sale
$14,000
Fuselage, all flight surfaces, canopy and landing gear built. 100
hours of labor complete. Easy installation of upgrade as the wings are
open and the center spar still accessible.
JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601
For Sale
$1900
Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle,
prop extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on a
750 (check with Jabiru USA)
Pictures available, The plane is in Park City, UT.
-- Craig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
m/Navigator?Zenith601-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
Date: Mar 07, 2011
Pity the engine lives and flies in the mid-west these days. And the prop and
spinner are up in Washington state.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
paulrod36(at)msn.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for
sale
Craig, a $14,000 airframe is pretty well within the ballpark, but I'll bet
they'll be beating down the door for that $1900 Jab 3000.........Smiley
emoticon
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
I'm finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are the two
ads I'll be placing on Barnstormers:
ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUILD KIT
For Sale
$14,000
Fuselage, all flight surfaces, canopy and landing gear built. 100 hours of
labor complete. Easy installation of upgrade as the wings are open and the
center spar still accessible.
JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601
For Sale
$1900
Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle, prop
extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on a 750 (check
with Jabiru USA)
Pictures available, The plane is in Park City, UT.
-- Craig
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat tonight
Date: Mar 07, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Mar 07, 2011
From: Michael Hilderbrand <m_hilderbrand(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
Craig, =0A=0AActually the engine-(and plane) lives in Canada as-of last
week....- =0A-Michael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0ASonex #1017 Flying
=0AJabiru 3300 w/ Aerocarb=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__
______________________________=0AFrom: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, March 7, 2011 4:44:19 PM
=0ASubject: RE: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit fo
r sale=0A=0A=0APity the engine lives and flies in the mid-west these days.
And the prop and =0Aspinner are up in Washington state.=0A-=0A-- Craig=0A
-=0AFrom:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-zenit
h601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0Apaulrod36(at)msn.com=0ASent: M
onday, March 07, 2011 2:34 PM=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject:
Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale=0A
-=0ACraig, a $14,000 airframe is pretty well within the ballpark, but I'l
l bet =0Athey'll be beating down the door for that $1900 Jab 3000.........
=0A-=0APaul R=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From:Craig Payne =0A>To:
craig(at)craigandjean.com =0A>Sent:Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:17 PM=0A>Subject:Z
enith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale=0A>-=0A>
I'm finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are the tw
o ads =0A>I'll be placing on Barnstormers:=0A>-=0A>ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUI
LD KIT=0A>For Sale=0A>$14,000=0A>-=0A>Fuselage, all flight surfaces, cano
py and landing gear built. 100 hours of labor =0A>complete. Easy installati
on of upgrade as the wings are open and the center spar =0A>still accessibl
e.=0A>-=0A>-=0A>JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601=0A>For Sale=0A>$1900=0A>
-=0A>Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle
, prop =0A>extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on
a 750 (check =0A>with Jabiru USA)=0A>-=0A>Pictures available, The plane i
s in Park City, UT.=0A>-=0A>-- Craig=0A>-=0A> -=0A> -=0A>title=ht
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List =0A>href="http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zeni
th601-List=0A>=0A>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matron
ics.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
ics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
Date: Mar 07, 2011
Is that good news or bad news? Did you go with it? Otherwise you have to
change your signature. ;-)
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Hilderbrand
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for
sale
Craig,
Actually the engine (and plane) lives in Canada as of last week....
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, Kansas
Sonex #1017 Flying
Jabiru 3300 w/ Aerocarb
Http://www.kansasflying.com
_____
From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 4:44:19 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for
sale
Pity the engine lives and flies in the mid-west these days. And the prop and
spinner are up in Washington state.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
paulrod36(at)msn.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for
sale
Craig, a $14,000 airframe is pretty well within the ballpark, but I'll bet
they'll be beating down the door for that $1900 Jab 3000.........Smiley
emoticon
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne <mailto:craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
I'm finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are the two
ads I'll be placing on Barnstormers:
ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUILD KIT
For Sale
$14,000
Fuselage, all flight surfaces, canopy and landing gear built. 100 hours of
labor complete. Easy installation of upgrade as the wings are open and the
center spar still accessible.
JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601
For Sale
$1900
Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle, prop
extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on a 750 (check
with Jabiru USA)
Pictures available, The plane is in Park City, UT.
-- Craig
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2011
From: Michael Hilderbrand <m_hilderbrand(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale
I did not go-with it.--Had-to sacrifice my "fun" for the family's f
uture....I- =0Alook to be-back in the air (have my own plane) within 5-
6years.- =0A=0A-Michael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0ASonex #1017 Flyin
g =0AJabiru 3300 w/ Aerocarb=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com
>=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, March 7, 2011 7:58:57 PM
=0ASubject: RE: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit fo
r sale=0A=0A=0AIs that good news or bad news? Did you go with it? Otherwise
you have to change =0Ayour signature. ;-)=0A-=0A-- Craig=0A-=0AFrom:ow
ner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-zenith601-list-ser
ver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael =0AHilderbrand=0ASent: Monday, Marc
h 07, 2011 5:50 PM=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Zenith
601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale=0A-=0ACraig,
=0A-=0AActually the engine-(and plane) lives in Canada as-of last wee
k....- =0A-=0AMichael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0ASonex #1017 Flying
=0AJabiru 3300 w/ Aerocarb=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.com =0A-=0A-=0A=0A
________________________________=0A=0AFrom:Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.
com>=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, March 7, 2011 4:44:19
PM=0ASubject: RE: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit
for sale=0APity the engine lives and flies in the mid-west these days. And
the prop and =0Aspinner are up in Washington state.=0A-=0A-- Craig=0A-
=0AFrom:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-zenith60
1-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0Apaulrod36(at)msn.com=0ASent: Mond
ay, March 07, 2011 2:34 PM=0ATo: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: Re
: Zenith601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale=0A-
=0ACraig, a $14,000 airframe is pretty well within the ballpark, but I'll b
et =0Athey'll be beating down the door for that $1900 Jab 3000.........=0A
-=0APaul R=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From:Craig Payne =0A>To:cra
ig(at)craigandjean.com =0A>Sent:Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:17 PM=0A>Subject:Zeni
th601-List: 601XL quick-build kit and Jabiru FWF kit for sale=0A>-=0A>I'm
finishing up my 701 and would like to sell my 601XL it. Here are the two a
ds =0A>I'll be placing on Barnstormers:=0A>-=0A>ZENITH 601XL QUICK-BUILD
KIT=0A>For Sale=0A>$14,000=0A>-=0A>Fuselage, all flight surfaces, canopy
and landing gear built. 100 hours of labor =0A>complete. Easy installation
of upgrade as the wings are open and the center spar =0A>still accessible.
=0A>-=0A>-=0A>JABIRU 3300 FWF FOR ZENITH 601=0A>For Sale=0A>$1900=0A>
-=0A>Includes cowl, motor mount, air box, oil cooler, oil recovery bottle
, prop =0A>extension, throttle, cabin and carb heat. Would probably fit on
a 750 (check =0A>with Jabiru USA)=0A>-=0A>Pictures available, The plane i
s in Park City, UT.=0A>-=0A>-- Craig=0A>-=0A>--=0A> -=0A>title=
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List =0A>href="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Ze
nith601-List=0A>=0A>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr
onics.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr
onics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Room
Date: Mar 13, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat
Date: Mar 14, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com From: "Larry McFarland" <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
Subject: Bracket for the mounted solid state ignition
Date: Mar 14, 2011
Hi Guys,
I visited the hangar to do a preflight this afternoon and a friend found my
Stratus solid state ignition bracket was cracked and there was a lot of flex
in it.
Two 8.8 mm bolts holding the rectangular box to the engine were the only
thing keeping it from dropping off. I loosened the bolts and removed the
bracket
in two pieces. The .080 steel bracket would have been stout enough, but
the bolted flanges were cut square and cracks began there. I removed the
safety wire and electric connections and took the bracket home. I remade an
.080 bracket that has no corners or sharp edges. I put some high temp
silver paint on it
and hung it out for reassembly tomorrow. I think I'm probably the 10th
person that has had this bracket crack in this way. Time to look carefully
at yours, especially
if you have but one ignition.
Fly safe guys,
Larry McFarland Stratus powered 601HDS with 156 hours
at www.macsmachine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2011
From: Steve Look <slook(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Couple of questions...
I always think of these things on the weekend rather than during the
week when I can just pick up the phone....
I'm finishing up the upgrades to my center spar 6W4:
Do I put washers under the head and under the nut on the AN4 bolts or
just under the nut? I see on the plan that just the nut. In the parts
list drawing it shows both.
I am tempted to go by the plan, but somebody tell me what is "best practice".
What is the torque spec on these A4s? I can't find that anywhere in the docs.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2011
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Couple of questions...
Hi Steve,
According to the "Bible" AC43.13, AN4 Bolts require between 50 and 70
inch-pounds with a maximum allowable torque of 100 pounds. This comes
from table 7-1 in AC43.13-1B which can probably be found on the FAA web
site.
I don't think there is any requirement for washers in the realm of "Best
practice". You need to use washers to make the bolt finished length
appropriate. This means (I think) you should see something like two
threads past the end of the nut when it is tightened. I prefer to put a
single washer under the nut, and if two are needed one under the nut and
the other under the bolt. If you need more than two washers you are
probably using the wrong length bolt and should order the right length.
You can get any length bolt from Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, or one of many
other places.
You can also get a bolt gauge for a small fee. These make it easy to
tell which length bolt you have in your hand. You can tell with a
ruler, but this is a bit tricky.
I recommend you either get a copy of AC43.13-1B and -2A in printed form
or get in the habit of looking at the online copy on the FAA web site.
This document tells you everything you ever wanted to know about
building and repairing aircraft.
Paul
Camas, WA
Just finishing up the upgrade - installing finished carrythrough in
fuselage.
On 3/19/2011 3:14 PM, Steve Look wrote:
>
> I always think of these things on the weekend rather than during the
> week when I can just pick up the phone....
>
> I'm finishing up the upgrades to my center spar 6W4:
>
> Do I put washers under the head and under the nut on the AN4 bolts or
> just under the nut? I see on the plan that just the nut. In the parts
> list drawing it shows both.
> I am tempted to go by the plan, but somebody tell me what is "best
> practice".
>
> What is the torque spec on these A4s? I can't find that anywhere in
> the docs.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> www.ilrt66.com
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Couple of questions...
Steve, take a look at this web page:
http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ra/hardware.html
If the answer is not there, do a little "googling"...
Good luck
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
On 19 March 2011 18:14, Steve Look wrote:
>
> I always think of these things on the weekend rather than during the week
> when I can just pick up the phone....
>
> I'm finishing up the upgrades to my center spar 6W4:
>
> Do I put washers under the head and under the nut on the AN4 bolts or just
> under the nut? I see on the plan that just the nut. In the parts list
> drawing it shows both.
> I am tempted to go by the plan, but somebody tell me what is "best
> practice".
>
> What is the torque spec on these A4s? I can't find that anywhere in the
> docs.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> Steve Look
> Monticello, IL
> www.ilrt66.com
> "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Couple of questions...
From: jaybannist(at)cs.com
Date: Mar 19, 2011
Steve,
Best practice is to have a washer under the nut, since that is usually the
one that is turned. However, if conditions require that you hold the nut a
nd turn the bolt, then the washer should go under the bolt head. Another r
equirement is that the bolt be such a length that the nut will not bottom o
ut on the threads. Therefore, when the nut is properly torqued, there shou
ld be at least two threads showing and no more than three. You can use up
to three washers to help meet those conditions. The proper torque for an A
4 bolt is 50 to 70 inch pounds. The higher number should be used if it is
a self-locking nut.
Jay Bannister..
I always think of these things on the weekend rather than during the
week when I can just pick up the phone....
I'm finishing up the upgrades to my center spar 6W4:
Do I put washers under the head and under the nut on the AN4 bolts or
just under the nut? I see on the plan that just the nut. In the parts
list drawing it shows both.
I am tempted to go by the plan, but somebody tell me what is "best practice
".
What is the torque spec on these A4s? I can't find that anywhere in the doc
s.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
www.ilrt66.com
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
From: "Ron Lendon" <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 19, 2011
Today, after many years of work the airplane is resting on its landing gear and
the engine is mounted. I'm beginning to see the end of the build phase and looking
forward to the testing/flying phase.
Been thinking this is a milestone, but Anne might see it as a millstone. Either
way it sure feels good... :D
--------
Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334475#334475
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2011
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
Well done, Ron.
On the gear is indeed one of the big milestones.
Paul
On 3/19/2011 7:31 PM, Ron Lendon wrote:
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon"
>
> Today, after many years of work the airplane is resting on its landing gear and
the engine is mounted. I'm beginning to see the end of the build phase and
looking forward to the testing/flying phase.
>
> Been thinking this is a milestone, but Anne might see it as a millstone. Either
way it sure feels good... :D
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
> Corvair Engine Prints:
> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334475#334475
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2011
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
WAY to GO Ron! It is a milestone, and I hope you're appropriately proud!
I'll hoist a toast to your success in your direction...
Rick Lindstrom
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Lendon <ron.lendon(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2011 7:31 PM
>To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith601-List: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
>
>
>Today, after many years of work the airplane is resting on its landing gear and
the engine is mounted. I'm beginning to see the end of the build phase and
looking forward to the testing/flying phase.
>
>Been thinking this is a milestone, but Anne might see it as a millstone. Either
way it sure feels good... :D
>
>--------
>Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
>WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
>Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
>http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>Corvair Engine Prints:
>http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334475#334475
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2011
Subject: Re: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
Well done, Ron, congratulations
Carlos
On 19 March 2011 22:31, Ron Lendon wrote:
>
> Today, after many years of work the airplane is resting on its landing gear
> and the engine is mounted. I'm beginning to see the end of the build phase
> and looking forward to the testing/flying phase.
>
> Been thinking this is a milestone, but Anne might see it as a millstone.
> Either way it sure feels good... :D
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
> Corvair Engine Prints:
> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334475#334475
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Another Zodiac is on its gear!
Anybody that's been there remembers the feeling. Congratulations, Ron.
Larry Winger
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Ron Lendon wrote:
>
> Today, after many years of work the airplane is resting on its landing gear
> and the engine is mounted. I'm beginning to see the end of the build phase
> and looking forward to the testing/flying phase.
>
> Been thinking this is a milestone, but Anne might see it as a millstone.
> Either way it sure feels good... :D
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Detroit, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
> Corvair Engine Prints:
> http://www.zenith.aero/profile/RonLendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=334475#334475
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com>
Subject: Chat Reminder
Date: Mar 20, 2011
http://www.mykitairplane.com Date: Mar 20, 2011
From: Bill Pagan <bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing Bolts
Hello All,=0A=0AFinished with the upgrade but have not-riveted the center
section back in place =0Ain the plane as of yet.--My quickbuild (snick
er-snicker) like some others has =0Athe holes for the wing bolts-in the c
arry through slightly out of shape.- =0AMy-question is should I mount t
he carry through onto the wing spar out of the =0Aplane and ream these hole
s to size or wait until I install the wings on the =0Aplane with the carry
through riveted in place.- How difficult is it to ream =0Athese holes wit
h the center section installed (looks like it would be difficult =0Ato me)
and if I ream them with the center section on the wing out of the plane =0A
is there a chance that they will have to be redone when-all is installed
on the =0Aplane?- I worry about whether things will move slightly when I
rivet it all =0Atogether.- Then of course with the holes already reamed i
t would cause things to =0Abe out of shape again.- Hope this is-clear.
=0A-=0ABill Pag=E1n=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2011
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Test
A check to see whether I can post.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2011
Subject: Re: Wing Bolts
Hello, Bill
I have noticed that parts tend to shift a little relative to the original
position (i.e., when the wholes were drilled) during riveting.
So now I have the habit of first placing the tail end of drill bits in a fe
w
holes (for instance, when riveting the wing skin, 5 to 10 drill bits on eac
h