Zenith640-List Archive Browser

Zenith640-Archive.digest.vol-aa
April 26, 2008 - December 30, 2010

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Date: Apr 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: First Message To New Zenith640 List
This is a first message to the newly created Zenith640 List at Matronics. Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Four New Email Lists At Matronics!!
Dear Listers, I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the following categories: Citabria-List Citabria, Decathlon, Scout, and Champ Zenith601-List Zenair Zodiac CH 601 Zenith640-List Zenair Zodiac CH 640 Zenith701801-List Zenair STOL CH 701 and CH 801 All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives, Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...: Citabria: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?citabria-list Zenith601: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list Zenith640: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list Zenith701801: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here: http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-) Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Message To New Zenith640 List
From: "seattle" <ccgreenberg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2008
Thanks for the new list. My wife and I are hoping to start a 640 quick build this August. There don't seem to be very many 640 builders out there. Anybody have a clue as to how many of these kits have been sold / how many are flying? Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179490#179490 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "seattle" <ccgreenberg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2008
Just thought I'd see if there are any 640 builders who care to check in. I'm beginning to think that about 3 of these things have ever been built. Let's see who's in the community. Year completed, hours to build, pictures, true performance numbers, etc.? As for me...... Hope to get started in a couple of months. Thanks to those who chime in. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179749#179749 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
Date: Apr 28, 2008
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Concerning the number of ch640 builded, I had identified 5 airplanes builder at this day. If you need more info on that topic I can send you photographies. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ --Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Zenith640-List: 640 Builders Check-In
Concerning the number of ch640 builded, I had identified 5 airplanes builder at this day.
If you need more info on that topic I can send you photographies.

Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/

--Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA)--

--Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA)-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: 640 Builders Check-In
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Sorry lee I don't want to say "builders" but "completed airplane". I have a Power Point presentation of those 5 planes completed. I can't post this Power Point presentation on this forum, but if you send me your email adress, I can send you this file. The number of builders are more numerous. I buy the plan number 59, 2 years ago, I think Zenith had sold nearly 100 plans (for sratch plan builders). I don't know the number of complete kits sold at this days. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christian Tremblay Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 23:39 Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: 640 Builders Check-In This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Concerning the number of ch640 builded, I had identified 5 airplanes builder at this day. If you need more info on that topic I can send you photographies. Christian Tremblay A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan http://www.zodiac640.com/ --Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Zenith640-List: 640 Builders Check-In
Concerning the number of ch640 builded, I had identified 5 airplanes builder at this day.
If you need more info on that topic I can send you photographies.

Christian Tremblay
A guy who build a CH640 aircraft from plan
http://www.zodiac640.com/>

--Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA)--
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith640-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Zenith640-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution
--Boundary_(ID_efyn4ADc8fM1bi8KIUUFBA)-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 01, 2008
I am one of the 5 completed and flying, serial number 52, finished almost 3 years ago. With just over 600 hours, I probably have the most hours on the airframe other than the prototype. So far I have found no problems with the airframe and am very happy with the planes performance. Steve Adams N621J Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180461#180461 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 03, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: For Sale - Navaid AP-1 Autopilot - New!
Fellow Homebuilders, I have decided to go with a two-axis auto pilot in my RV-4 project and am selling my single-axis Navid AP-1. This is a brand new unit with all of accessories, manual, analog Loran/GPS input, and S-2 servo. It has never been installed. No scratches. Current price from Navaid is $1300 US. I will sell for $1100 plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first served. Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested. Below is a picture of the actual unit and included accessories. Matt Dralle List Admin / RV-4 Builder Emacs! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "seattle" <ccgreenberg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 04, 2008
I'm making plans to go see one of the completed 640's in the next couple of weeks. It sounds like if the performance is really 125 kts true and 1400 fpm climb that it'll be a good match for my family. This may be a stupid question but.... With gull wing doors, is an in-flight opening more of an issue? It seems to me that if one of those came open in flight it would rip right off. Is there a loft to the door which keeps pressure on it? Thanks. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181122#181122 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2008
From: xl <xl(at)prosody.org>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
I built + fly a 601XL, but what the heck, I'll chime in anyway. I read all of the ntsb probable causes listed in: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/ntsb/ (BTW, I've updated the page to remove duplicates and enable sorting.) There is an NTSB report of an AMD CH-2000 with clam shell doors. The door hinges failed, the door opened + departed. Event Date = 12/17/2004, location = Jean, NV, Make / Model AMD CH-2000, N285AM. Joe E @ BFI CH601XL, 509 hours On Sun, 4 May 2008, seattle wrote: > > I'm making plans to go see one of the completed 640's in the next > couple of weeks. It sounds like if the performance is really 125 kts > true and 1400 fpm climb that it'll be a good match for my family. > > This may be a stupid question but.... With gull wing doors, is an > in-flight opening more of an issue? It seems to me that if one of those > came open in flight it would rip right off. Is there a loft to the door > which keeps pressure on it? Thanks. > > Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 05, 2008
There have been instances of the doors departing in flight on the Alarus. There was a modification of the latch mechanism so there are 2 positive stops when latching; the first a kind of safety stop, and the second fully closed. There is quite a bit of negative pressure on the doors when flying, so obviously you need to ensure the latches are fully closed and brief all passengers not to open the latch in flight. Unlike some aircraft with clamshell doors, the latch mechanism is quite simple and easy to check to ensure it is closed. I also check the hinges as part of the preflight. As far as cruise speed. At 7-8000 feet I cruise at 130kts TAS. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181198#181198 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca
Date: May 05, 2008
Subject: Look doors Mecanisms
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Look doors Mecanisms
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 06, 2008
Maybe I wasn't too clear. On the very early ch2000 models I think the latch had only a single notch. That was changed to the current latch with 2 notches quite a while ago. I made no modification to this system myself and the stock design is simple and sturdy. Do make sure that when you do the final install you put some locktite on the screw that holds the inside latch in place and check it occasionally because it will loosen with use if you don't (that 1 screw is what holds the door in place in flight so having it come out would be a bad thing). The same is true for the 2 allen head screws used for hinge pins in the door. I found mine had backed out a little bit over the first 100 hours. I put a little locktite on them and they have held tight ever since. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181616#181616 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Look doors Mecanisms
From: "seattle" <ccgreenberg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 07, 2008
For cooling, do you taxi with the doors up? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181864#181864 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: For Sale - RMI uMonitor - NEW - All Probes and Upgrades!
Dear Listers, I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uMonitor with all the probes for a 4-cylinder engine including Fuel Flow, 4ea EGT, 4ea CGT, Carb Temp, and Manifold pressure. The uMonitor just had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND the new LED fiberoptic backlight. Also included is the Aircraft Extras RM-1B plugin harness extender for the uMonitor which greatly simplifies the wiring installation. The uMonitor is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table below lists all of the items included. I have nearly $2800 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first served. Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested. Matt Dralle List Admin / RV-4 Builder 1ea - RMI microMONITOR Assembled . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1299.00 $1299.00 1ea - Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp Display), . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware. . . . . .$ 399.00 $ 399.00 1ea - Manifold Pressure Sensor 10.0 to 59.0 InHg. . . . . . $ 68.00 $ 68.00 2ea - EGT/CHT Multiplex Switch 2 to 6 cylinders . . . . . . $ 60.00 $ 120.00 1ea - Fuel Flow sensor, FloScan 201B-6 - .6 to 60.0 GPH. . .$ 230.00 $ 230.00 1ea - Carb Temp Sensor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 55.00 $ 55.00 4ea - EGT Thermocouple - tubing clamp type . . . . . . . . .$ 65.00 $ 260.00 4ea - CHT Thermocouple - bayonet type. . . . . . . . . . . .$ 50.00 $ 200.00 1ea - RM-1B Harness Expander, Aircraft Extras. . . . . . . .$ 155.00 $ 155.00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2786.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: For Sale - Skyforce Skymap IIIC - NEW - Latest Database
Dear Listers, I am selling a new-in-box Skyforce Skymap IIIC full color GPS moving map with Topo. The database and firmware were just upgraded 05/2008. Includes a Panel Mounting bracket, GPS Antenna, cigarette lighter adapter, carrying case, and all manuals. Brand new, never used. No scratches. The pictures below are of the actual unit. The LCD color display on the IIIC is extremely nice and very bright. Gives altitude readout. RS232 output. I have over $2500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $2200 plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first served. Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested. Matt Dralle List Admin / RV-4 Builder 1ea - Skyforce Skymap IIIC w/ GPS and Americas Database. . .$2367.00 . .$2367.00 1ea - Panel Mount. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$98.00 . . .$98.00 1ea - Firmware and Database Update 5/8/2008. . . . . . . . . .$50.00 . . .$50.00 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2515.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: For Sale - RMI uEncoder - NEW - Assembled
Dear Listers, I am selling a new, never used, fully assembled RMI uEncoder. The uEncoder just had all of the latest hardware and software updates factory installed including the new high contrast LCD display supporting Fahrenheit temp readings AND the new LED fiberoptic backlight. The uEncoder displays airspeed, altitude, fpm, OAT, and outputs Mode C data for most transponders. The uEncoder is in new condition with no scratches and all installation material and manuals. The pictures below are of the actual unit for sale. The table below lists all of the items included. I have nearly $1500 invested in this complete system. I will sell it for $1100 plus shipping to anywhere in the world. I can accept Visa/MC. First come, first served. Please email me off list at dralle(at)matronics.com if you are interested. Matt Dralle List Admin / RV-4 Builder 1ea - RMI microENCODER ASSEMBLED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1179.00 . $1179.00 1ea - RMI Factory Upgrade of LCD (Fahrenheit Temp, US Miles), . . . . . . Fiberoptic LED Backlight, Latest Firmware . . . . . $ 315.00 . $ 315.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1494.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 640 Carb Heat
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
Every time I find a maintenance issue, I try and post it for those few 640 builders out there. The other day I was landing and pulled the carb heat, which pulled about 6 inches out of the panel. I landed, and thinking the cable had broken, removed the cowl to take a look. I didn't take any pictures, but the bolt attaching the cable to the arm that controls the carb heat flapper had worn all the way through the arm and pulled out. On closer inspection, the bolt had also been worn so only about 30% of the bolt cross section was remaining. I replaced the flapper arm so I could keep flying, but am looking at the design and trying to come up with a fix. I think I will weld on a thicker and wider arm so I can drill a larger hole and insert a bearing around the bolt which should make it hold up a bit better. The cabin heat uses a similar design and control cable, but there is no wear at that connection. Steve Adams Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183286#183286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Look doors Mecanisms
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
seattle wrote: > For cooling, do you taxi with the doors up? No, even with the engine idling they would at the least be damaged and likely torn off. They are sturdy when closed, and big enough to make getting everything and everybody in when opened, but are just not designed to be open and flapping in the breeze. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183337#183337 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Scheibinger" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Place to stay in Oshkosh
Date: Jul 08, 2008
If anyone is looking for a place to stay in Oshkosh, my neighbor is offering her home. They have moved into a new home and the house is up for sale. It's a fairly new home in a subdivision with 3 bedrooms, 2 full bath, remodeled basement, air conditioned, close to the airport They moved out 2 weeks ago and it's very clean and up for sale. Full laundry. Lots of parking space and you can party with the neighbors, a bunch of Viggen and 601 XL builders! $100 per day with a $700 minimum. If you are interested call Melissa at 920-410-3282 or you can call me at 920-237-1450 and I will set it up for you. Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "SteveCH640" <matron(at)reintek.com>
Date: Jul 20, 2008
I am a CH640 builder. Checking in. My site is. http://www.reintek.com/Planeindex.htm I have stopped to re think the situation. I have had mixed emotion about the quality and support. I think I might go forward, but I am now stopped by a big optical development project filling my garage. That is my main income. Tryied the back seat at AirVenture, is was a joke. It was a two place plane with a large seat shaped luggage area. If the new mod moves it back 4 inches, then it might go from a joke to a really cramped back seat for really small people. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194072#194072 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 24, 2008
SteveCH640 wrote: > > > I have stopped to re think the situation. > I have had mixed emotion about the quality and support. > > I think I might go forward, but I am now stopped by a big optical development project filling my garage. That is my main income. > Tryied the back seat at AirVenture, is was a joke. It was a two place plane with a large seat shaped luggage area. If the new mod moves it back 4 inches, then it might go from a joke to a really cramped back seat for really small people. Steve, I have similar sense about the support of the 640. They will unabashedly tell you that since the 640 isn't a big seller like the 701/601/801, it simply will not get further attention. Mr. Tremblay and others have identified errors in the prints, that have not been addressed. The website has broken links, that haven't been addressed. CH2000 Alurus production is now a special order only operation with the new LSA models taking precedence. Still, this is the aircraft I have chosen, and I intend to follow it to completion, regardless of any obstacle. I don't know what you are referring to when you say "new mod". I don't think there will ever be any further updates for the 640. Even though the 640 is billed as a four place, I knew it is only a 2+2. The useful load however is still 1,000 lbs, and as I don't have any intention of flying with rear seat passengers, the aircraft still fit my mission requirements for less money than any other design, as well as, in my view, a simpler construction method. I found that if you CALL Zenair in Canada as a follow up to an e-mail you will get better results. Somehow the e-mail only method can get lost in the shuffle. Be careful when getting advise from builders of other Zenith designs, as not all applies to the 640. If you are going to build a table, start with a 16 footer, or you will be building 2 tables anyway. You need 16' for the Fuselage. My own experience with the project has fits and starts as well, work issues, domestic issues, financial issues, all have added delay to my progress. Only recently have I been able to get back to actually building, and have almost completed the stabillator spar. I'm also building my own fuel tanks, as I've decided to go with a double standard tank configuration. I'm building jigs, and tooling to produce 4 standard tanks, buying a nice TIG welder, and so forth. If you decide to go forward and would like to pool resources in the fuel tank department, PM me. Once the tanks are done, it will be saving up for the wings kit. Best wishes, and hope you sort out what's best for you. C. Smith Howell MI CH640 SN:078 -------- Craig Smith Future CH640 builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194689#194689 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "SteveCH640" <matron(at)reintek.com>
Date: Jul 24, 2008
The "New Mod" I was referring to is the rear seat is moved back a few inches from the original plans. One of the other builders addressed this, but I don't remember which one. The original position wasn't even a 2+2. I think it is a really great plane. I have flown the CH200 and extrapulating out, the 640 should be great. Zenith in Canada seams to have a funny attitude. Also, there is a tremendous amount of flying on the West Coast, yet there are no 640 demos here. If a company has some problems, I still feel secure if they care. Zenith doesn't seem to care about the 640. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194840#194840 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2008
From: <dgeese(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
I feel compelled to defend both the CH640 and Zenair on this thread. As far as support from Zenair, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Tim Ward seems to be the guy in charge when it comes to questions, parts, etc and is a great guy to talk to. When I was building my ailerons, I had one come out twisted. I called to inquire about a replacement skin and since I was ordering my fuse kit anyway, a replacement was included in the crate at NO charge. They inadvertently sent two left hand longerons and no right hand. This was quickly solved. I built my own engine mount since my engine is not a dynofocal mount. I called to ask detailed questions concerning distance and angles of engine placement and spoke to Chris himself. I can think of many more situations like these so again, support couldn't have been better. This airplane is directed towards a niche market, and except for the article in Sport Aviation hasn't been advertised to any extent. I think the design speaks for itself. Where else are you going to get a 180HP, 4 place, 145mpg, 1000# useful load plane for under $50k? It is truly a family traveller. Granted the back seat isn't as big as say an RV-10 but neither is the cost (not even in the same ballpark). In my case, the back seat is more than roomy enough for my two kids to travel in comfort. When the kids are grown and gone, the back seat will be great as baggage area to take extended trips with my wife. As I'm putting the finishing touches on mine in preparation for the first flight (hopefully this fall), I'm amazed at what a solid, full featured plane this has become. This won't be my everyday flier, but when the GPS says 1000 miles to go, I wouldn't want to be in anything else. If anyone is ever in the northern Indiana area, feel free to stop by our community airport and check mine out. Doug Geese CH640 95% done, 25% remaining www.tropria.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2008
From: Craig Smith <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
Doug, I'm happy that you had a positive experience. Why you feel a need to defend anyone is not necessary. Steve and I have just stated our experiences, nothing more. We both said we liked the aircraft. It's pretty clear that you are one of the early adopters, and perhaps early in the program there was more enthusiasm from the manufcturer. Such is not the case currently. The 640 has been allowed to founder, plain and simple. They didn't even have one to show at Sun-N-Fun, nor was there any promotional literature. I have had very mixed results from the company and it's representatives. Some e-mails drift off into oblivion, some get answered. Sometimes I have to make a follow up phone call. But after perserverance on my part I have gotten some answers for critical issues, such as my double fuel mod. Indeed Tim is the best point contact for support, but sometimes things must get shifted around on his desk, as I have had to follow up on a few things. I agree with you that the features for price are unbeatable, that is why I chose this model. I too will be building my own engine mount, for a Rotamax 180. As Chris is retired from the business, I'm hopeful it won't a problem when I'm crossing that bridge. Again, I have great admiration for the design, designer, and quality of materials so far. But for us new builders, it seems the focus of the company is elsewhere. It's exciting to hear that you are near completion. Please keep us apprised of your progress, and I would love the oppurtunity to come to see your 640. As a veteran builder, what were your "gotcha's" in building the 640, or what advise would you have for those with projects still in infancy? Craig in Michigan dgeese(at)verizon.net wrote: I feel compelled to defend both the CH640 and Zenair on this thread. As far as support from Zenair, I have had nothing but positive experiences. Tim Ward seems to be the guy in charge when it comes to questions, parts, etc and is a great guy to talk to. ........ I built my own engine mount since my engine is not a dynofocal mount. I called to ask detailed questions concerning distance and angles of engine placement and spoke to Chris himself. I can think of many more situations like these so again, support couldn't have been better. This airplane is directed towards a niche market, and except for the article in Sport Aviation hasn't been advertised to any extent. I think the design speaks for itself. Where else are you going to get a 180HP, 4 place, 145mpg, 1000# useful load plane for under $50k? ..................... As I'm putting the finishing touches on mine in preparation for the first flight (hopefully this fall), I'm amazed at what a solid, full featured plane this has become. This won't be my everyday flier, but when the GPS says 1000 miles to go, I wouldn't want to be in anything else. If anyone is ever in the northern Indiana area, feel free to stop by our community airport and check mine out. Doug Geese CH640 95% done, 25% remaining www.tropria.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
Date: Jul 25, 2008
From: "Doug Geese" <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
I don't remember any major difficulties in building the airframe, but of course I've been working on it since spring of 2002 and I'm sure I forgotten little things in that amount of time. I do remember the fuel tanks being a little tight in the wing bays and so I used 1/16" cork instead of the kit supplied 1/8". I built the entire airframe from Zenair supplied slow build kits and went on my own for the instrument panel and firewall forward (except for cowling). It seems that lately I have spent a lot of time working between the back of the firewall and the rear of the engine. Since I'm an "instant gratification" type person, this has been tedious. Nothing looks different from day to day. The canopy was riveted in last Sunday so things can start to happen at a quicker pace now. I guess that I would simply suggest to just stick to the plans while building. I also follow the 601 list on Matronics and see a lot of armchair engineers over there changing all sorts of stuff. Good, bad, who knows? Now that we have our own list as I come up with thoughts about the construction I'll post them here. Doug ________________________________ From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Smith Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In Doug, I'm happy that you had a positive experience. Why you feel a need to defend anyone is not necessary. Steve and I have just stated our experiences, nothing more. We both said we liked the aircraft. It's pretty clear that you are one of the early adopters, and perhaps early in the program there was more enthusiasm from the manufcturer. Such is not the case currently. The 640 has been allowed to founder, plain and simple. They didn't even have one to show at Sun-N-Fun, nor was there any promotional literature. I have had very mixed results from the company and it's representatives. Some e-mails drift off into oblivion, some get answered. Sometimes I have to make a follow up phone call. But after perserverance on my part I have gotten some answers for critical issues, such as my double fuel mod. Indeed Tim is the best point contact for support, but sometimes things must get shifted around on his desk, as I have had to follow up on a few things. I agree with you that the features for price are unbeatable, that is why I chose this model. I too will be building my own engine mount, for a Rotamax 180. As Chris is retired from the business, I'm hopeful it won't a problem when I'm crossing that bridge. Again, I have great admiration for the design, designer, and quality of materials so far. But for us new builders, it seems the focus of the company is elsewhere. It's exciting to hear that you are near completion. Please keep us apprised of your progress, and I would love the oppurtunity to come to see your 640. As a veteran builder, what were your "gotcha's" in building the 640, or what advise would you have for those with projects still in infancy? Craig in Michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2008
I can't really speak to factory support at this time since I finished my plane 3 years ago. It does seem that the 640 has been given little attention by Zenair. Do make sure you have the rear seat plans that were updated. The seat is now 4 inches back from where it is in the prototype. This change was made about 4 years ago, and was included in my plans (#0052). It doesn't interfere with the flap motor, but you do have to design your own way of attaching the steps, as the bracket sent with the kit does not work as shown in the drawings. I attached a few photos of how I did it without changing the brackets. While not elegant, this method has held up fine over 600 hours. Just a hint; use about 1 1/2 inch of high quality foam on the rear seats to maximize space and 1 normal sized adult is pretty comfortable in back. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195324#195324 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage173_605.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage172_334.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
From: "mcjon77" <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2008
Hi guys, Has anyone else noticed that with the inclusion of the 650 and 750 on the zenith website, that the CH 640 has disappeared? I wonder if they will keep selling plans to it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195363#195363 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2008
From: Craig Smith <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
It's still listed in the text below the pictures. The Zenair 640 site is still up. I specificly asked the question of Zenith after the announcement of the patriot from AMD and that ALARUS production would be special order only. The response was that the 640 was going to continue to be offered. I too was concerned about kit production. Hopefully things haven't changed in just a few months. mcjon77 wrote: Hi guys, Has anyone else noticed that with the inclusion of the 650 and 750 on the zenith website, that the CH 640 has disappeared? I wonder if they will keep selling plans to it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195363#195363 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2008
From: Craig Smith <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. steveadams wrote: I can't really speak to factory support at this time since I finished my plane 3 years ago. It does seem that the 640 has been given little attention by Zenair. Do make sure you have the rear seat plans that were updated. The seat is now 4 inches back from where it is in the prototype. This change was made about 4 years ago, and was included in my plans (#0052). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2008
pilot4pay wrote: > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > [b] I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195378#195378 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2008
From: mark <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
Hi all, I am new to the 640 community. I just ordered my plans while I was in Iraq (s/n: 094). I did a lot of research while there and found many similarities between the 640 and their other models. Tim Ward was extremely helpful. I am home now and will be ordering the tail kit here in the next couple days. Thanks to all for the great input on this forum. It's all been very helpful and educational, even the not so good stuff. I'm glad we have this site to share ideas on finally. My wife and I were planning on visiting the factory in Canada to pick up the tail kit and see the demo model. Tim informed me that the demo model was at their plant in Georgia, not Canada, but they'd be happy to give us a ride and tour down there. He also stated that I could pick up kits from their plant there. Possibly saving shipping for me. So far I have also noticed that the internet information for the 640 is severely lacking compared to their other aircraft. They have been very good at communicating with me via e-mail thus far though. Tim Had my plans to me in Iraq within about 10 days after receipt of my payment!! I hope things keep going as smoothly as they have so far. Here is my kitlog website if anyone is interested. http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363 I have all my tools and am ready to begin the build as soon as I can get the tail kit here. Hope to keep in touch with all of you. Mark Burrows ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
Date: Jul 28, 2008
From: "Doug Geese" <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Mark, Welcome to the 640 community. It's good to see quite a bit of activity surrounding the 640. I guess getting our own list has helped. I would highly recommend at least one visit to the factory. I went there twice, once to pick up my wing kit and another to get the canopy kit. Tim provided me with a plant tour and showed me various subassemblies that they were working on at the time. You're right there are many similarities. About 90% of the 640 is from the certified Alarus. My dad is building a 601 and you definitely notice common techniques and assemblies in it also. Doug Geese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Riveting the stab
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 28, 2008
I shot 8 AD5 rivets on one of the hinges today. Since I have no basement or garage, I'm building in my hangar. Anyway if you drill the hinges and brackets to the drawing, you will have difficulty setting the rivets over the doublers. New builders take note, subtract a couple mm from the outboard locations. I had to cut away the nose piece of one of my riveters to shoot the A5s, and sand off some from the side of the solid rivet set to get in next to the doublers. Also had to drill out one particular rivet 3 times before I got it to set properly. Being a novice rivet setter, I decided to let it go for tomorrow to finish the other hinge bracket. Tip, wrap your bucking bar in leather if it has a rough cast finish or it will make you some rework on your brackets surface finish. To learn solid riveting, I made up some simu-spars from scrap aluminum. I built a total of 6, with the last 2 matching the spar stack ups, to check how the rivet lengths worked out. Oh, foo'd up the original brackest so had to make my own in 1/8 angles. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195447#195447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2008
From: mark <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- >From: pilot4pay <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> >Sent: Jul 28, 2008 8:14 PM >To: zenith640-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab > > >I shot 8 AD5 rivets on one of the hinges today. Since I have no basement or garage, I'm building in my hangar. >Anyway if you drill the hinges and brackets to the drawing, you will have difficulty setting the rivets over the doublers. New builders take note, subtract a couple mm from the outboard locations. I had to cut away the nose piece of one of my riveters to shoot the A5s, and sand off some from the side of the solid rivet set to get in next to the doublers. Also had to drill out one particular rivet 3 times before I got it to set properly. >Being a novice rivet setter, I decided to let it go for tomorrow to finish the other hinge bracket. >Tip, wrap your bucking bar in leather if it has a rough cast finish or it will make you some rework on your brackets surface finish. >To learn solid riveting, I made up some simu-spars from scrap aluminum. I built a total of 6, with the last 2 matching the spar stack ups, to check how the rivet lengths worked out. Oh, foo'd up the original brackest so had to make my own in 1/8 angles. > >-------- >Craig Smith >CH640 builder >SN: 0078 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195447#195447 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 29, 2008
steveadams wrote: > > pilot4pay wrote: > > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > > [b] > > > I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195509#195509 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
From: "haven" <haven1950(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 29, 2008
Mark, Thanks for your service... and welcome to the boards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195516#195516 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Riveting the stab
Date: Jul 29, 2008
The AD5-6 rivets come with the tail kit and are for the stabilator hinge brackets. They give you an option to use a combination of AN-3 bolts over the doublers with the A5 rivets in the middle. I used -6 in the middle, and -7s over the doublers. I bought a cheapy rivet gun set from eBay for $30 something. It is of marginal utility, but there are only 16 solid rivets in the stab, so felt that dropping $200 on a nice set not worth the trouble. Bucking bar I think came from Aircraft Spruce, and was about $12. I would not recommend trying to use an air hammer as a substitute. It would be great if you could borrow a nice one from someone for a few days, practice up then shoot your hinge brackets. I need to review the IPL to see where else they are used. Heck, you can use mine when you get to that point. I can post it to you, when you're done send it back. Might even have some extra rivets. If you haven't done so already, download and print the IPLs off of the 640 builder site. I like to frequently review what comes next, and try to predict what materials/tools I'll need. You will find that a good quality 90 degree drill with a 1/4x2" bit (I need to double check that bit length, I'm not in the shop) helps with match drilling the horn brackets, it's a pretty close quarters operation. I special ordered mine from Aircraft Tool Supply in Michigan. Watch eBay for some good used tool values. I got both my 90 and 45 degree drills there for less than 1/2 of new prices. Got an assortment of drill bits too, real cheap, but they are mostly the stubby ones, and won't reach through the balance weight and brackets. Big project like this, good tools help. Oh, and thanks for your service, that's a tough place. C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Riveting the stab
Date: Jul 29, 2008
Mark, I went through most of the IPLs and there are solid rivets (you usually have the bolt option) used in many places. Perhaps a good rivet gun is not such a bad idea. Solid rivets in stab, aileron bell crank, Fuse stage 2, rear fuse floor sub, and possibly front torque tube, but the language there is kinda muddy. Maybe a few more, I did not go through all of the IPLs (6 left). C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: Riveting the stab So there are some solid rivets that have to be driven Craig? In looking at the plans, I saw a few areas that called for solids, but gave you an option to use more pulled rivets in their place. Is this ther case, or do I need to get an impact rivet gun as well? Thanks, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
Date: Jul 29, 2008
Steve, I checked my dwgs. F-40 rev.12, 11/04 F-41, rev.02, 09/05. distance from spar to rear seat is correct. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steveadams Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:08 AM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: 640 Builders Check-In --> steveadams wrote: > > pilot4pay wrote: > > My SN is 0078, with the baggage shelf in the plans, so I'm guessing that the seat mod is in there too. > > Thanks for the tips. Is there a dimension in a drawing to double check for the seat mod that you can think of, it would be greatly appreciated. > > [b] > > > I'll have a look at my drawings tonight and check the revision date and some measurements. I looked at the drawings, F-40 and F-41 have most of the rear seat parts, and were revised in 01/04. The distance between the spar and the front rear seat support was moved from 350 mm to 450 mm. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 29, 2008
Hi Mark and All, I am also somewhat new to the CH640. I bought my plans back in January (s/n 0092) and chose to build the complete aircraft from the plans. I now have a lot of the parts fabricated, and my rudder and stabilator are nearly complete. I found a few places in the plans where the dimensions are confusing or are inaccurate. Tim Ward acknowledged the problems and said they would incorporate the feedback into their next plan revision, but they would not supply a list of all known problems with the plans. Does anyone know of a web site which has a full list of plans errata? -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195596#195596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 29, 2008
>From what I can remember, solid rivets are used on the stab hinge brackets, engine mount brackets, main gear attach brackets, and on a channel reinforcing the wing rear spar attach bracket on the fuselage. I didn't build my aileron bell crank and don't remember what is there. So there aren't many, but they are in critical areas. In addition, while strength wise substituting a bolt would be fine, in some of these areas a bolt is not practical or will just not fit. If you are like me (no riveting experience), you will pound a lot more rivets practicing and getting proficient than you will pound on the airplane. Because they are generally in critical areas, I would recommend either buying a rivet gun and bucking bar (kind of a waste for so few rivets), or finding a set someone will let you borrow. You want those rivets to be as close to perfect as you can get, and not having the right tool will make it that much more difficult. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195602#195602 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CH 640 no longer listed on the zenithair website?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 30, 2008
Scott Stewart wrote: > Hi Mark and All, > > I am also somewhat new to the CH640. I bought my plans back in January (s/n 0092) and chose to build the complete aircraft from the plans. I now have a lot of the parts fabricated, and my rudder and stabilator are nearly complete. > > I found a few places in the plans where the dimensions are confusing or are inaccurate. Tim Ward acknowledged the problems and said they would incorporate the feedback into their next plan revision, but they would not supply a list of all known problems with the plans. Does anyone know of a web site which has a full list of plans errata? Scott, why don't we start here? If you would take the time to post your findings, I will make up a spreadsheet of drawing dates and revisions. indexed to the drawing number, leaving some space for comments. The zenith dwgs. don't tell you what was changed, just rev level and rev date. Maybe together we can piece together a database of our own. This is exactly the kind of information these forums supposed to help with. Too bad Zenair isn't interested in that level of support to builders, like Zenith in Mexico does for the other kit aircraft. I think this is the kind of issue alluded to in my posting to the builders check in thread. My sn is 0078, and I would sure like to know if there has been an update to a drawing since I purchased my plans. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195712#195712 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2008
From: SUE MICHAELS <michaega(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Stall warning system for sale
New ACI stall warning system. Aircraft Spruce $295 yours for $220. Ship USA . This is an easy mountable to wing with two sided tape especially when set ting up the stall speed then can be permanently mounted if you want. This i s self contained electric unit with 9 volt battery or hook-it up to your 12 volt system. I purchased EFIS with AOA built in.=0A-=0AGeorge- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 640 Builders Check-In
From: "SteveCH640" <matron(at)reintek.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2008
Stating the facts and nothing but the facts. Good and Bad. The lower rudder skin was bent during shipping. Zenith did offer to replace it. I decided to try to fix it my self. If it didn't work then ask for a replacement. I got the kink out just grate. The lip on the third rib up appeared to be bent wrong. If I put the rivets in the middle of the rib lip and to the mark on the spar, the rib flanges were too high for the skin rivets. I cracked the lip trying to bend a kink in it to lower the rib. Made some tools and made a new rib to the drawing spec's. It fit much better. The lower rudder skin had a 1/2 inch radius on the trailing edge. It was supposed to go into the upper skin. The upper skin had a 1/8 inch radius. This is unacceptable quality. I had to spend a tremendous amount of time to expand one radius and shrink the other. Basically I spent a lot of time making special tools to un-crimping one radius and crimp the other. It would have been quicker to crimp correctly from flat sheets. The lower rudder skin had some pre-drilled holes on the top edge against the #3 rib. The top skin goes over the lower skin, so how are you supposed to see or use these holes when they are covered by the top skin. Also I had to mark their location and with lines coming out from under the skin so I didn't drill partially into them. The dimension inside the spar doublers was 116 mm. The lower rib was 119. Lot's of bending to get 119 mm into a 116 mm space. There were a few other problems. Figuring out what the problems were and figuring out how to solve it took a lot of time. Making tools and fixing or making new parts took even more time. It was about 30 hours of problem solving. After that it was 16 hours to assemble the, now correct, parts. A tremendous amount of time just for the rudder. Extrapolating this rudder time out, the whole plane should only take 10,000 hours. :>) I wanted a kit I could assemble in a reasonable amount of time. I wanted to carefully measure, drill and rivet and have an airplane. Buying the rudder parts and following the instructions didn't work very well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196242#196242 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Drawing Revision Record
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2008
During the process of putting together the spreadsheet of drawing revisions, I found a couple missing from my plans packet, does everyone else have these in their plans? Missing from my book are: 640-F-26 640-C-6 Please let me know if you have them or not. I will post the spread sheet as soon as I can get the gaps cleared up. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196381#196381 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Drawing Revision Record
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2008
Ok, I found the missing drawings, so here is what I have at present. Included are dwg no., title, rev level and date of dwg. If you have a drawing with a more recent revison, please PM me with relevant information and I will update the list, and repost. I have locked the document in order to maintain integrity of information. Thanks. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196472#196472 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch_640drawingrecordprot_134.xls ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Update for Bend line spread sheet
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2008
Most of the work on this was done by Larry Winger, but I had an application for multiple bends so he gave me a chance to work out the problems. My contribution is the 3 and 4 bend sheets. Hope this helps. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196477#196477 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bend_line_spreadsheet_plus_3_and_4_bends_328.xls ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Drawing Revision Record
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2008
Hi Craig, I looked through my plan set I received in January (s/n 0092) and found three changes from your list. 640-F-4 is at rev 17, 640-F-39 is at rev 14, and 640-M-95 is at rev 2. Unfortunately, the plans don't clearly show what was changed from one revision to the next. We would need to list out the change number for each part on the pages. Before jumping into this, is this what you are looking for? -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196982#196982 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Drawing Revision Record
Date: Aug 07, 2008
Yes, it is a start. Is it possible for you to copy those pages at full size, either scan or photo copy? Or I could call Zenair and request an updated copy of the drawings, compare them and then add notes to the list. I made up a second copy of my plans for back-up and shop use. It also allows me to easily pull out sheets for special use. If you can copy and mail to me I will reimburse you. This project is in response to your request for a tracking website for plans errata. What are the errors you have found so far? Christian Tremblay found some problems with the spar caps as well. (not in my list yet). C. Smith -----Original Message----- Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: Drawing Revision Record --> Hi Craig, I looked through my plan set I received in January (s/n 0092) and found three changes from your list. 640-F-4 is at rev 17, 640-F-39 is at rev 14, and 640-M-95 is at rev 2. Unfortunately, the plans don't clearly show what was changed from one revision to the next. We would need to list out the change number for each part on the pages. Before jumping into this, is this what you are looking for? -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder trim
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 22, 2008
I'm planning on adding rudder trim to my 640. Does anyone know of a formula or a link to a website that might provide insight as to how to calculate area required to be effective but not oversize to be overly sensitive? -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199917#199917 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Aug 22, 2008
Hi Greg, Try your question on zenith forum, more chance to have a answer on that question that could be considered general. note : your trim will be electric for sure and will need to recalculate also the the counterbalance weight of the rudder. -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199947#199947 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Aug 22, 2008
Me again, Let us know your investigation findings. :P -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199949#199949 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 26, 2008
I found a lot of information by searching the web, decided that I would wait until I'm flying to decide if the trim is necessary. The SAMA CH-2000 do not have rudder trim, and they have surveillance and aerial photography variants. If they can make a photo platform without a rudder trim, then the control force must be pretty light to keep the ball centered. Found an interesting paper by Sebastian Heinze on aero-elastic structures. Looks like he's a pretty smart fellow. Lots of other documents to read through now. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0685#200685 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Twin varant of CH-640
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 27, 2008
JAI is developing a twin engine version of the Certified SAMA CH2000, with a VNE of 160Kts. Would love to see that when finished. JAI also markets a certified versions of the SAMA with the short Alurus wings and the longer 640 length wings. Also offered is a G1000 installation. If that's the case, I don't understand why Garmin doesn't list the G900 as an available installation for the CH-640. But then again, the G900 is way over priced by my standards. Steinair quotes $70K for a G900 installation, but when first offered in a Cessna, the price difference was only $40k over the base model. Oh well, still a long way from the instrument panel. Dynon is a lot of features for a great price. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0871#200871 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twin varant of CH-640
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Aug 27, 2008
Hello Graig, I don't remember Who is JAI. Could'you tell us where or how we can have more information on his project ? Tks Chris -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0949#200949 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twin varant of CH-640
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 28, 2008
JAI is Jordan Aerospace Industries. They currently produce certified variants of the CH801, and the CH2000, along with some other aircraft. Download the SAMA brochure, for some details. It's too big to post here. the website can be found here: http://www.jai.jo/ Mathieu Heinze is listed as part of management team. Not too much information on the project, but it will be interesting to see. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1134#201134 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Project Almost Done - Cleaning House...
Date: Sep 04, 2008
From: "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com>
After over 10 years I'm almost done with my Zodiac 601HDS project (yes, HDS) and I'm cleaning out/selling off the extras to make a little piece in the family... I've put up 2 Electric Gyros Indicators on eBay if anyone is interested: RCA15AK-1 14V Electric Directional Gyro (Lighted) http://tinyurl.com/6n66vm RCA26AK-1 14V Electric Attitude Indicator Gyro (Lighted) http://tinyurl.com/5nnfuu Both are brand new, have zero hours and were bought at R.C. Allen Booth at Oshkosh. Don Honabach Tempe, AZ 601HDS ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2008
Depending on how you fly, you may or may not want or need rudder trim. The 640 has the self centering notch on the nose gear which works pretty well in keeping the front wheel centered in flight. You can adjust the rigging of the rudder to give some offset, i.e.- the rudder will offset slightly to the right when the front wheel is straight. Since the front wheel is held in a centered position in flight, this slight offset in the rudder essentially provides a fair amount of fixed trim to the rudder. The key is fine tuning the rigging during test flight to give feet on the floor coordinated flight in your normal cruise configuration. That way you won't spend 3 hours mashing the right pedal while cruising. If you don't do a lot of cross country flying, you may want to consider some type of variable trim system because you can only rig the rudder perfectly for one specific flight configuration. Unless your airplane is bent or otherwise out of rig, there should be no need for a fixed rudder trim as long as you don't modify the self centering design of the nose gear. Steve N621J Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3561#203561 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 11, 2008
Thanks for the input Steve. I hadn't thought about the centering notch, or that I like the idea at all. All of my time has been in Cessna's. Our typical mission was long cross country, so the AP took care of keeping a heading, I would trim to the rudder to the ball. The Cessna system is quite different from the Zenith. Yaw trim put tension on the rudder through the bungee. At this point, If I were to make a choice, I would opt to leave out the notch. Not having experienced this set-up first hand, I am speculating, but it sounds like it would annoy me. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3851#203851 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2008
The force to "override" the notch is not much and I doubt you could detect it in flight. It does however have enough force to be able to trim out the rudder in cruise flight. With the all flying rudder, I would think that the plane would be pretty squirrelly in yaw without the centering notch. I would think hard about it before taking it out. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3902#203902 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder trim
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 12, 2008
I'm probably going to find a flight school that has an ALURUS on the line and book some time before I build the gear. It's just that, in my flying experience, the yaw trim needs adjustment every new heading or change in wind direction. If the ball is not in the center, then the aircraft is producing more drag than necessary, the ride feels "weird", and you are burning more fuel. A detent in the yaw control will make an electric trim system difficult to implement. I don't care for ground adjustable tabs, so it would be either no trim or electric trim/no detent. I understand the part about rigging the rudder for the detent. Maybe that is where I should look to making an in flight adjustable yaw trim, rather than a tab/servo arrangement. Hmmmm. That approach would take some serious thought. Again, I'll have to book some time and see for my self, I have lots of time before I have to cross that bridge anyway. right now cash flow has more to do with progress than time. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3936#203936 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Instrument pinouts
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2008
Hey all, I recently got a hold of an Aero Mechanism 8140B-20 LW encoding altimeter for dirt cheap. It looks great and appears to work just fine. Does anyone know of a good place to look for instrument pinouts or wiring diagrams? I know I can find the proper connector, just have no idea how to hook it up. I'm no where near being ready to install it, but I'll be slowly researching and planning my panel in between building the airframe sub-assemblies. Thanks. Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4913#204913 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2008
Sorry I've been away from this post for a bit, but we just got home from Iraq. So many things to do!!!! Anyway, thanks for all the tips and info. Which size rivet gun did you guys use, 4x, 3x or 2x? My rudder kit should be here tomorrow and I'll be ordering the horizontal stab kit as soon as it arrives. Would you guys suggest bolts, or driven rivets in those spots? Obviously, I'd be much better at installing bolts, but you think there's a requirement to check the bolts for tightness over time? If so, the rivets might be more pain in the beginning, but less hassle in the long run. Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4915#204915 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Sep 18, 2008
Hi gang, I ordered the Extended Tank Range (2 x 23 gal US) threw CanZaq Aviation (Canada), and I would say that I am more than happy [Laughing] by the QUALITY of the tanks (10/10). The thank had no waves deformation and they are accurate. Even with my best local welder, I cant find a better Job. First good surprise, the plan specified 0.025 material in 6061-T6, and the thanks were in 0.032. Secondo, the tank are coming with all fittings from the tank to the firewall. I don't ordered the complete kit, only the tank with fitting. It come with tube vent, fuel quality cap, fuel quality selector, electronic sensor and a gascolator, 1 inch. cork, fuel line and so on. The inventory is completed, no missing pieces, conform to plan. I will post photography later on the photo archive forum. Conclusion : Its over my expectations and It's dont pay to do it yourself. Tanks to Zenith and Mark Townson from CanZaq Aviation. -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4921#204921 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2008
I find it odd that they would have .025 spec'd in the plans and then make the tanks in .032. In a recent conversation with Tim, he told me they used .025 for tank construction. Glad to hear you are happy with the product. .032 would definitely make for a stronger tank, and easier weld operation. Still planning to build my own, since I bought .025 on Tim's recommendation that is what I'll use. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4948#204948 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Sep 18, 2008
May be It's because they are bigger than standard tanks they made it in 0.032. -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4955#204955 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder complete!!
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 23, 2008
Well, CH-640 s/n 094 is officially on the map! I received the rudder starter kit last Thursday and finished it yesterday. I'll be heading up to Zenair's plant next week to check it out and pick up the rest of the tail kit. (I live in upstate New York anyway). I'm a long way from being complete like some of you guys, but at least I have your aircraft to look forward to. here's my builder's site in case anyone is interested. Please feel free to reply with pointers or tips if you like. I welcome any help I can get! Mark http://www.mykitlog.com/stephen363 -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5845#205845 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 23, 2008
Just thought of this, but I didn't just jump into the post uninvited. I was stephen363, then realized I was only a guest. So I'm now super58d and a member of the forum. Hope everyone is moving along on their projects. Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5846#205846 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twin varant of CH-640
From: "mcjon77" <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2008
I wonder how difficult it would be for a builder to modify his 640 into a twin. I know Chris Heintz has the Gemini and IIRC some builder turned a 601 into a twin engine aircraft. It would be interesting, considering the almost complete lack of homebuilt twin kits or plans. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6453#206453 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
You will want a 3x gun. I bought a "budget" gun off e-bay, and wouldn't recommend it. ATS has a nicely priced economy gun, No 2602A @$106, and that is what I'll probably buy later on for the next solid rivet phase. As far as suggestions, it's what you are comfortable doing. I couldn't comment on structural issues, as I'm not an engineer. CH has given you the option to go either way, so I'm sure he has done the math. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6775#206775 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Thanks Craig, I have never driven rivets, so I guess I'll just have to practice. I am planning on heading up to the plant this week or next to pick up the rest of the tail kit. I am going to see if I can watch them drive some on an aircraft being worked on, maybe they'll even give me a short block of instruction on how to do it. Thanks for the insight and help. Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6799#206799 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riveting the stab
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 30, 2008
If you are an EAA member you can access some very good articles on riveting in the members section. There are also some builders videos in the multimedia section that demonstrate solid riveting. You also might google riveting demonstration or instruction, probably find some more stuff that way too. One key point is to make sure the buck bar is in firm contact with the rivet before you press the trigger, and stays there until you let off the trigger. Get some scrap and practise, it will come to you. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6888#206888 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal stabilizer spar length??
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Oct 02, 2008
Does anyone who has built up their spar yet remember the length of the spar assembly for the horizontal stabilizer? I am heading up to the plant soon to pick that assembly up and wondered if a full size pick-up would suffice, or if I need to bring my trailer. Tim Ward said it was the longest piece, but couldn't remember exactly how long it was. Thanks, Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7157#207157 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal stabilizer spar length??
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "Doug Geese" <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
The spar length is 2860mm or about 9'5". -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of super58d Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: Zenith640-List: Horizontal stabilizer spar length?? Does anyone who has built up their spar yet remember the length of the spar assembly for the horizontal stabilizer? I am heading up to the plant soon to pick that assembly up and wondered if a full size pick-up would suffice, or if I need to bring my trailer. Tim Ward said it was the longest piece, but couldn't remember exactly how long it was. Thanks, Mark -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7157#207157 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lightening Hole Flange Dies
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
To anyone building the Zenith CH 640 from plans: After trying roller-type lightening hole flange tools with limited success, I decided to make my own flanging dies. I made a 95mm set out of steel because the inboard wing spar web material is so thick. I made a 115mm set out of aluminum because aluminum is easier to machine, and the rib material is relatively thin. I am willing to lend out these dies to anyone else who can use them and is willing to pay for shipping. I am posting this message here for anyone who may be searching the archives at some point in the future. Happy Building! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Chris, could you please take some photographs of the tanks? I'm particularly interested in the sides and back. Thanks. If you don't care to post them here you can e-mail them directly to me. I think you have my e-mail address already. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9033#209033 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 17, 2008
In attachement 6 photos of the tanks and all piece includes with the kit. Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9247#209247 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_7_195.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_6_609.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_4_454.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_3_753.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_2_206.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tank_1_164.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Extended Tank Range
Date: Oct 18, 2008
Hey Chris, one more question, please. Is the top/nose/bottom and back skin one continuous sheet of aluminum? That would make three pieces total for shell construction. C.S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 19, 2008
Yes the bottom, up and back sides is a continuous form, one piece. You have also left and right side, this mean 3 pieces to weld. If you plan to do the tanks in 0.025, I suggest you an inside ribs with holes in bottom and top to let the gaz freely circulates. This inside rib will give more rigidness to the tank. See you. Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9360#209360 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Hey Chris, First off thanks for the posting the pics. They were great. I was wondering what type of fuel sending probes you were going to use. I want to install a flat panel like the Advanced flight systems one, and I'm not sure if it needs a specific type of fuel sending unit. I think the ones you have in your pictures are float type, not the capacitance type, right? Just wondering if you have done any research as to whether other types of sender units can be installed in these tanks. Thanks, -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9810#209810 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Try the following link for just about everything you ever wanted to know about capacitive fuel senders. These guys make them right here in Michigan. I'll be using them in my aircraft. http://airstuff.com/index.html very educational website. You'll want to find out for sure what your avionics needs before you order the probes. But you can order mounting flanges separately, that's what I have done, so I can procede with tank construction without having to decide on avionics installation. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9821#209821 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Oct 24, 2008
Thanks Craig, Very neat site. It'll take me awhile to got through all the info they have there though. Lot of good stuff! I really like the mini power panel too. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210071#210071 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Oct 27, 2008
Chris, I have yet another question. From the photographs, I see that the fuel float assy. is not installed. I'm guessing that the small welded panel on the side is the base for installing the the float assy? -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210540#210540 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 27, 2008
Hi Craig, Your right, this small plate is for attaching the fuel sensor with 3/16 metal screw x 5/8 of an inch (24 tread). The hole was done with a 1 5/8 Dewalt hole drill cut off remover. This plate is done with a square piece (3 x 3 inches) with a 0.125 piece of 6061-T6 welded to the tank skin. See photographies attached. Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210700#210700 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/im001616_767.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/im001581_532.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Extended Tank Range
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 27, 2008
Additional info: Rectification it is not exactly metal screw that should be used, but metal bolt with cross head for tightening with a screw driver tool. You should do hole with tread with a left hand tap tool. Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210704#210704 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/im001613_651.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2008
From: dralle(at)matronics.com
Subject: Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through soley through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts. Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: https://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really do feel like family. Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
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From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contribution Site URL Clarification
Dear Listers, In my List Fund Raiser kickoff email last night, I mistyped the URL for the *initial* Contribution web site and couple of people reported receiving SSL certificate errors. The actual payment entry pages where were correct, however, so there were no certificate issues that impacted payment data. I'm sorry for the confusion. Please use the following URL to start your List Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
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From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%...
As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser. Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep these Lists up and running? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, Wiki and PhotoShare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Members Are Saying...
Dear Listers, November is the Annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are supported solely through your generous Contributions during this time. Please make your Contribution today and pick up a really nice free gift at this same time: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Listers have been including some really nice comments regarding what the Lists mean to them along with their Contributions this year. I've included a few of them below. Please read them over and see if some perhaps echo your feelings as well. Thank you for your support this year! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best bargain in the entire industry!! -Owen B Every year your lists are better, sure #1 in e-mail list in the world. -Gary G Thank you for an awesome site! -Ashley M Your lists are important to me and well worth paying for. -Calvin A Thank you for providing such and informative and ad free environment to learn by. -Myron H As always, a valuable and extremely useful resource. Stephen T As always, a great service. -Reade G Very much appreciate this site and the communications it has enabled between builders. -Larry M This service is worth every penny. -Robert S Great site! Thanks a ton for its functionality! -Peter B The RV-10 list feels like my community. -Dave S The lists are fantastic, a great source! -Jimmy Y I've learned a lot from the List. -Gabriel F A wonderful resource. -Gerald G Well done. -Richard N Years of good service. -William M Valuable service. -Keith H The site is quite helpful. -Jon M Very interesting List that I read form the beginning. -Alain L A well managed site. -Carl B Great service. -Svein Kare J Still the most useful program on the computer. -Fergus K Great contribution to my project! -Robert K Thanks for keeping a great list. -Dt G The List continues to provide excellent information. -Tony C This is a wonderful resource that has easily saved me a bunch on my build-time. -Ralph C Thank you for providing a great service. The Zenith builder's community would be in sad shape without the Zenith-List's. -Terrence P I really do get pleasure out of reading the List every day. -Bill V Great source of information. -Arthur V Thanks for a great service. Very enjoyable. -Louis B You know we all could not do without your support!! -James S Great resource! -Douglas D Thanks for the great service. -John B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...?
Dear Listers, The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their support... ;-) Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep these Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really* don't want to have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too. Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC
Dear Listers, Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics Email Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New CH 640 videos on youtube!
From: "mcjon77" <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2008
It looks like CH 640 #073 just had its first flight. I don't know where this plane was made, but it looks and sounds like Central or South America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPm8ysF9O5c and another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC3xozYDfPo Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215847#215847 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: performance
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2008
The 640 is a great instrument platform. I fly IFR a lot, and have about 30 hours in IMC in my 640. The back seat is tight for 2 adults. 1 adult or 2 kids can fly comfortably in the back. I wouldn't bother with a constant speed prop. Keep it simple with a 180 and fixed pitch prop. I flight plan for 125kts between 65-70% power. Flying at 75% power will gain a few knots, but increase fuel burn and noise considerably. You can push it to 132 kts if the moon is in the right phase and the stars are aligned correctly :). Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216190#216190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling! If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take a minute right now to make your personal Contribution? Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Personal Check: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution
Today! There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors 2008! Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by sending your personal check to: Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 (Please write your email address on the check!) Thank you in advance for your support of these List services! Matt Dralle Matronics Email and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Listers Have Been Saying
Wow! Many of the members making a List Support Contribution this year have been using the Comments field to leave a personal message about the Lists. Thank you! I have included a number of them below. Please read over a few and see if you perhaps can echo some of the same sentiments regarding the value of the Lists to you... There is only a couple more days left for this year's List Fund Raiser and we're still way behind previous years. If you've been waiting until the last minute to show your support, Now is the Time! Please make your Contribution and pick up a great gift at the same time! By Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or By Personal Check: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550-7227 Thank you in advance!! Matt Dralle Email List and Forums Administrator Here is some of the great feedback members have been including along with their personal Contributions this year... Over the years, the info I have received from the RV-List has saved me thousands of dollars, and dozens of hours of time by helping me avoid bad purchases, pointing me at vendors with low prices and excellent support, and providing solutions to the typical head scratchers that you run into. Kevin H Valuable service. Best List(s) on the Internet! George A Please accept this token not as an indicator of what this list has been worth to me this past year. Lew G Great information and entertainment. Tim V Thanks again for another great year of service. This project would be beyond me if it were not for the list. Moreover, the friendships I have found are worth their weight in GOLD! Robert B Great support you provide to all the subscribers! Freddie H Read it every day. PF B Thanks for your excellent management of the Matronics Lists! Your services are head and shoulders above the rest. James M Without the "List", there would be no Kolb "community". Bill T Thanks, Matt, for a great service! I've been monitoring and using the lists since 1999. Richard D Thanks for such a terrific site and for all the work and effort you put into it. John R A great service year after year. John D ..another year of fantastic service. Jerry B This list is a great resource. Arden A Great list. James M Lists were a great help while building HRII N561FS. John S Great resources for both the beginner and experienced. George R Good service. Gary G The List is an invaluable resource! William C AeroElectric list is a great source of info and learning! Janice J Thank you, Matt for being there for us making it all happen on the List for so many years - Great JOB! Sam S Thank you for providing a great venue. You definitely hit the nail on the head with your solicitation asking if readers look forward to receiving the email digests. I certainly do and when I move from a dreamer to a builder, I expect the anticipation will only increase. Joe S Thanks for a Perfect working list. Hans-Peter R Great List Bryan K Such a great selection of valuable forums! David G Nice job! Walt E Good resource... Robert P Thank you for another great year! Scott S I could not do this without you... Robert D I believe I've been a list member for over a decade now. Thanks for the service! Tim L Great List Hendrik W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means three things:.. 1) Today I am now officially 45 years old... 2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to keep the List bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is on it! Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List of Contributors 2008
Dear Listers, This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a contribution this year in support of the Matronics Email List and Forum operation. Your generosity keeps the wheels on this cart and I truly appreciate the many kind words of encouragement and financial reimbursement. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser, please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution today and still get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by personal check to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2008 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/08! Have a look at this list of names as *these* are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts around the end of December. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: leading edge bends?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jan 06, 2009
Chris, being that you are a scratch builder, I would like your advice on leading edge bending. How did you achieve the proper radius? did you use a cylinder of the same diameter as the radius design spec? Just asking, as I will need to make an appropriate leading edge bend in my tank skins. Any others wishing to offer intuition on the topic is welcome. Thanks! -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223133#223133 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
Craig, I am building a 601HD, but the process still applies. I have used a 2 3/8" OD PVC pipe. The radius on the HD wing is 53 mm. I attached the pipe to a 2x6 to make sure it would not flex, and used those cargo straps to start the bend. After things were in place, I used a 8'x1'x5/8" board (from the hw store, to make shelves) to "squeeze" it. I'll email a picture off-list, as it is > 1 MB. Another method involves bagging the skin and applying vacuum from a vacuum cleaner. I've seen a video, and it is amazing ! Unfortunately it has been removed from youtube, but you can find postings on the subject on the zenithlist: search for Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming. Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans 2009/1/6 pilot4pay > pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> > > Chris, being that you are a scratch builder, I would like your advice on > leading edge bending. How did you achieve the proper radius? did you use a > cylinder of the same diameter as the radius design spec? > Just asking, as I will need to make an appropriate leading edge bend in my > tank skins. > Any others wishing to offer intuition on the topic is welcome. > Thanks! > > -------- > Craig Smith > CH640 builder > SN: 0078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Jan 06, 2009
I Craig and Carlos, Happy New Year 2009 [Laughing] I am not an expert, but what I did and understand on that matter : 1 - From Document Standard Spec of Chris Hans for CH640, CH specifyed to bend with a radius of 3mm for bending 6061-T6 in 0.016, 0.025, 0.032 and 0.040 thickness and a radius of 6mm for bending 0.050 and 0.063 thickness. 2 - The radius is half of a circle diameter. 3- To bend 0.025 or 0.023 of your tank you shoud acheive this with a 3mm radius. 4 - More thick are the alum sheet, more radius you should have. If radius is to small, "microcrak" are too numerous. Il radius is too high, it could made bends less loose or weak. 5- A rod of 1/8 inch in diameter have a diameter of +- 5-6mm (You can buy those rod in a Home Hardware Store). If you wrap a 0.025 alum sheet around this rod, you will obtain +- 3mm radius. This will be pretty close for 0.025 and 0.032, a little bit loose for 0.016, a bit stiff for 0.040. But all will be in the tolerance values calculated by in the CH. For my alu brake, I welded to rod, 1/8 and 1/2 on both side of a plate (see my web site : section Tool). www.zodiac640.com See you Chris -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223191#223191 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: Keith Ashcraft <ch701builder(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
All, I have the MOV file on my computer, but... it is 705MB. It was from the Sonex guys, so maybe check the Sonex web site and see if they have the video. Keith CH701 -- scratch N 38.9940 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ***************************************************** ________________________________ From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:39:50 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: leading edge bends? Craig, I am building a 601HD, but the process still applies. I have used a 2 3/8" OD PVC pipe. The radius on the HD wing is 53 mm. I attached the pipe to a 2x6 to make sure it would not flex, and used those cargo straps to start the bend. After things were in place, I used a 8'x1'x5/8" board (from the hw store, to make shelves) to "squeeze" it. I'll email a picture off-list, as it is > 1 MB. Another method involves bagging the skin and applying vacuum from a vacuum cleaner. I've seen a video, and it is amazing ! Unfortunately it has been removed from youtube, but you can find postings on the subject on the zenithlist: search for Leading Edge Skin Vacuum Forming. Good luck Carlos CH601-HD, plans 2009/1/6 pilot4pay Chris, being that you are a scratch builder, I would like your advice on leading edge bending. How did you achieve the proper radius? did you use a cylinder of the same diameter as the radius design spec? Just asking, as I will need to make an appropriate leading edge bend in my tank skins. Any others wishing to offer intuition on the topic is welcome. Thanks! -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
One more thing I forgot to mention: the tank can follow the curvature of the wing nose skin - but you can also simplify and make it straight, like the XL tanks... See bottom half of this page: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/design-wings.html Carlos ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jan 06, 2009
pilot4pay wrote: > Chris, being that you are a scratch builder, I would like your advice on leading edge bending. How did you achieve the proper radius? did you use a cylinder of the same diameter as the radius design spec? > Just asking, as I will need to make an appropriate leading edge bend in my tank skins. > Any others wishing to offer intuition on the topic is welcome. > Thanks! I'm not Chris but you can see the process I used to bend my leading edge skins Go to mykitlog site, click on the Wings link and search for "Cut and bend LE Skin". I have eight entries there showing the process I used. The 58mm stop block is right for the XL leading edge radius. Just some food for thought, -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223261#223261 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
Date: Jan 06, 2009
http://www.ch601.org/resources/Nose%20Skin/bending_a_nose_skin.htm Pictures tell the whole story Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912, STOL CH750 Just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: leading edge bends?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jan 07, 2009
I see there are several methods for the process, I guess I need to be more specific in the question. Carlos used a 2-3/8 pvc pipe, which is 60mm roughly, for a 53mm finished radius. Please e-mail th pic to me, address is listed on post. Ron used the flat press method with 58mm stop block, for the same LE radius? I see the process at 601.org, 58mm stop block for 53mm radius, on the 601. I don't have my notes in front of me with my template dimension for the tank LE radius, but the trend is a stop block or pipe 5 to 7mm larger than desired radius? I guess that's the little detail I'm looking for. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223320#223320 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder complete!!
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 23, 2009
Hey Mark, We actually have a bit in common. I ordered my plans set (ser # 086)while doing my 15 months of fun in Balad, Iraq last year. I was actually trying very hard to get the tail kit sent there and work on it in our sheet metal shop, but alas the dimensions were too big for the APO system. So you're at Drum, right? I look forward to reading your build log. P.S. How long ago did you go through Rucker? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226306#226306 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder complete!!
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Jan 23, 2009
Hi Mark, Congratulations ! Welcome "officially" to the CH640 builder group. Be confident to ask any question to us. Continue your work, the CH640 is a funny small private plane ! I didn't have the chance to fly one, but, one of my friend (who is a Canadian military pilot retired) have a CH300, (ancestor of CH640 and Alarus 2000), and I fly it with him, a great and easy plane to fly. I have not doubt on my plane choice since those flying experiences. I have already completed the rudder, the tail wing, spars (L & R) and the right wing is almost completed to 99% (only missing closing tip outboard of the wing). I working now on left wing (all pieces are fabricated) and I will do an update of my web site with 100 more photo of assembly process of the left wing. I think the most hard and touch part to assembly are the wing spars and the nose wing skin. But don't panic with that, experience give confidence and abilities when required at this steps. If you don't visit my web site yet, go to the following address : www.zodiac640.com Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226357#226357 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder complete!!
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jan 28, 2009
Thanks Christian. I must say, I was looking at your site while I was in Iraq, and you have made some progress since then!! I like going to your site. It has lots of pics and useful info. I keep studying what you have done in preparation for the upcoming build of my horizontal stabilizer. Keep up the good work! Hey FlyGuyTililDie. It's a great someone else took a liking to this hobby in order to help pass the time over there! I left flight school around August of 2002. I was in Ft. Drum until a couple months ago, now my unit (3-17 Cav) has been moved to Savannah GA. Better weather down here anyway. Let me know when you start building, or if you have already. I'd like to see your progress. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227430#227430 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Right Wing completed - Update of www.zodiac640.com
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Feb 01, 2009
Hello and happy new year 2009. There is a fresh update of my Web site. I completed the right wing with the installation of aileron, flap, tank, cables and all guizmos that came with it. I created 2 new pages : one for tanks documentation "Tanks" and the other for wing recovery "Wing Skins". I Updates pages : "Changes from initial plan", "Aileron" and "Flap". You will also find a good trick for insure good location when drilling the hole for cap fuel and also for bending the nose wing skin with an ABS pipe. Have fun to see more than 100 photos and I hope you will find good explanations of my building process. Any question will be answered with pleasure. Christian http://www.zodiac640.com/ -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228111#228111 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Right Wing completed - Update of www.zodiac640.com
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Feb 03, 2009
Chris, you continue to be both an inspiration and a construction resource of great value. What a great job you are doing, and you progress rate is phenominal. Keep up the great work! -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228330#228330 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizontal Stab question
From: "super58d" <stephen363(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 17, 2009
Well, CH 640 s/n 094 is a slight bit closer to completion. I picked up the rest of the tail kit from AMD aircraft in Eastman GA last Friday. Zenair was nice enough to include it in a regular shipment to the LSA factory so that I didn't have to pay extra shipping. It was packaged great and all parts arrived in excellent condition. I am just a bit confused about a couple things though. The first thing is, how on earth do you route all the trim tab cables??? I see in the plans how you build the horizontal stab, but I can't find how you route the cables for the trim tabs and the horizontal itself. Are there other plan drawings I'm missing, or is there some "understood" practice that I am unaware of? Someday I'll finish this project, but I doubt I'll do it without all of your help! The other questions I have will certainly arise as work on the horizontal stab progresses. Thanks in advance.... Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235060#235060 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Right Wing completed - Update of www.zodiac640.com
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 17, 2009
Christian, The most impressive thing is that you are building from scratch!! I am building from a kit and I feel very confused already! Great job so far. I use your pics all the time for studying my future builds. Great work! -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235062#235062 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2009
Hi Mark, On the CD you received with your plans, you should find a folder named "Final" which includes photos of all the cables that get installed toward the end of your build. I think the photo "ins_0289.jpg" has the best view showing the installation of the stabilator and rudder cables and the trim tab cable. You might want to look around that folder for other pictures as well. There are quite a few showing these cables. These cables are installed after the fuselage is built, so it may be a bit early for you to get too concerned about the routing. Good luck with your build. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Working on wings. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235105#235105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2009
Thanks Scott, I never even thought to go back and look at the disk. Even the trim tab cables are routed later huh? Interesting. Guess it'll make more sense when I get a little further along in the build of the thing. Thanks again! Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235168#235168 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2009
There is a single push/pull cable for the trim tab that hooks to a bellcrank attached to the rear fuselage. The trim tab then hooks to the bellcrank. I was confused as heck about how it would all work until I got everything put together. In any event, that will come much later in the build. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235980#235980 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2009
Another stabilator question for the group... The plans call for AD-5 solid rivets in the hinge brackets. I saw in the pictures that they did use solid rivets instead of the bolt/pulled rivet combo that is allowed as an alternate. The parts I received with the stabilator kit only came with AD-4 rivets though. Which is correct? Even if I wanted to use the bolt combo, It doesn't seem that I was supplied with enough AN-3 bolts and nuts to do it. Any thoughts? Thanks, Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238222#238222 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
Date: Apr 07, 2009
I think you're missing some rivets. Did you physically verify your contents against the shipped bill of materials? This is something I do with everything I order from anyone. C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of super58d Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: Horizontal Stab question Another stabilator question for the group... The plans call for AD-5 solid rivets in the hinge brackets. I saw in the pictures that they did use solid rivets instead of the bolt/pulled rivet combo that is allowed as an alternate. The parts I received with the stabilator kit only came with AD-4 rivets though. Which is correct? Even if I wanted to use the bolt combo, It doesn't seem that I was supplied with enough AN-3 bolts and nuts to do it. Any thoughts? Thanks, Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238222#238222 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2009
I did! I even checked the parts off on the packages themselves and the list after I laid them out on the garage floor. I guess the part I forgot to mention is that the shipping bill of materials only has AN470-AD4-6 (and AD4-7) rivets listed. I did get those, but both the drawings and IPL call for AD-5 rivets. Did anyone else who got a kit have AD-5s included? Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238241#238241 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
Date: Apr 08, 2009
I went and found my BOM for the tail kit, and re-read the IPL. It's a typo in the IPL that makes it misleading. Use the AD4-6 and AD4-7 solid rivets for the hinge bracket. When in doubt about the wording of an IPL, feel free to give Tim Ward at Zenair a call, the more calls they get maybe they'll be motivated to correct the IPL. I think what the IPL means to say is use (four AD4-x solid rivets) or (two AN3 bolts and two A5 AVEX rivets) per bracket. If they tell you different at Zenair, please let us know. I used all solid rivets for my hinge brackets. C. Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of super58d Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: Horizontal Stab question I did! I even checked the parts off on the packages themselves and the list after I laid them out on the garage floor. I guess the part I forgot to mention is that the shipping bill of materials only has AN470-AD4-6 (and AD4-7) rivets listed. I did get those, but both the drawings and IPL call for AD-5 rivets. Did anyone else who got a kit have AD-5s included? Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238241#238241 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2009
Thanks Craig, That helps. I'll see what Tim has to say as well. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238288#238288 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Does anyone have extra Nyloil plate to sell?
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Apr 21, 2009
I am building my CH640 completely from plans. This includes machining the Nyloil pieces where possible. I am buying a 0.25" plate for half of the pieces, but I need thicker material for the remainder. Does anyone who is building their plane from plans have any extra 1" or 1.5" Nyloil plate that I can purchase? -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240555#240555 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alain Ouellet" <aouellet(at)icecanada.com>
Subject: Zenith Zip 2009
Date: May 09, 2009
Hi guys, This year Zenith Zip 2009 under the aegis of the RAA Toronto Chapter located at the Brampton Flying Club airport in Ontario returns. Come and meet fellow builders and owners of Zenith aircraft. Exchange ideas, tips, stories, good fellowship, etc.... This fly-in should be a repeat performance of the successful Zenith Zip of 2007. Dates: Week-end of June 13 & 14, 2009 Location: Hangar of the RAA Toronto Chapter at the Brampton Flying Club Camping: Is available on the site BBQ lunches: Saturday and Sunday Saturday night dinner in the planning phase. Contacts: Alain Ouellet (905) 458-5424 aouellet(at)icecanada.com Pierre Tanguay (613) 992-8108 day ptanguay(at)rogers.com (613) 762-7273 evening Mark Townsend (519)590-7601 info@can-zacaviation.com Let us know if are planning to come so that we can plan for the food accordingly. More details to be posted Alain ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alain Ouellet" <aouellet(at)icecanada.com>
Subject: Zenith Zip 2009
Date: May 20, 2009
Hi guys, This year Zenith Zip 2009 under the aegis of the RAA Toronto Chapter located at the Brampton Flying Club airport in Ontario returns. Come and meet fellow builders and owners of Zenith aircraft. Exchange ideas, tips, stories, good fellowship, etc.... This fly-in should be a repeat performance of the successful Zenith Zip of 2007. Dates: Week-end of June 13 & 14, 2009 Location: Hangar of the RAA Toronto Chapter at the Brampton Flying Club Camping: Is available on the site BBQ lunches: Saturday and Sunday Saturday night dinner in the planning phase. Contacts: Alain Ouellet (905) 458-5424 aouellet(at)icecanada.com Pierre Tanguay (613) 992-8108 day ptanguay(at)rogers.com (613) 762-7273 evening Mark Townsend (519)590-7601 info@can-zacaviation.com Let us know if are planning to come so that we can plan for the food accordingly. More details to be posted Alain ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ZodieRocket" <zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca>
Subject: Zenith Zip 2009
Date: May 26, 2009
Zenith <http://www.ch601.org/zenithnorth/index.htm> Zip Fly-in website link or look at the events pages of www.zenith.aero <http://www.zenith.aero/> website http://www.ch601.org/zenithnorth/index.htm The RAA Toronto Chapter is pleased to host the Zenith Zip 2009 Fly-in at the Brampton airport, Ontario, on June 13 & 14 2009. This event will appeal to all Zenith aircraft owners/enthusiasts, as well as to everyone who "would rather be flying"! Come and celebrate with us your passion for aviation!! Some of the activities planned over the weekend: * BBQ Saturday and Sunday * STOL CH 750 Fuselage construction * Technical discussions/workshops * Rudder workshop by Can-Zac Aircraft * Several exhibits by the sponsors * Tire-kicking, war stories, making new friends * Dinner and social evening Saturday night * Under-the-wing camping If you plan on staying overnight and attend the dinner and social, we can benefit from a group rebate at a local hotel. Please contact me and indicate your intention: * Supper/social Saturday night * Room for 1 night * Room for 2 nights Contact info: Pierre Tanguay pierre12(at)magma.ca (613) 687-0037 Alain Ouellet aouellet(at)icecanada.com (905) 458-5424 Happy Flights To All ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alain Ouellet" <aouellet(at)icecanada.com>
Subject: Zenith Zip 2009
Date: Jun 06, 2009
Its coming up next week-end in Brampton, Ontario. Lots of other pilots, builders, etc.... Good time to meet other aviation enthusiasts. Saturday and Sunday Alain ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any 640s coming to Oshkosh this year?
From: "mcjon77" <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Hi guys, Does anyone know if any Zenith 640s will be making the trek to Oshkosh? Last year, the factory demo plane did not show up, but I didn't check to find out if any customer build 640s were there and where they were. Thanks. -------- Jon McDonald Building Sonex #1287 Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248546#248546 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Hi, I'm Jeff and am strongly leaning toward building a CH-640. I just found this list, and was wondering if there is any activity on it? If so, just let me know, as I will have a lot of questions!! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Geese" <dgeese(at)verizon.net>
Subject: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Hi Jeff, There's not a bunch of activity on this list but occasionally a discussion gets started. Questions are no problem. I've just finished building a 640 from slow build kit and have inspection scheduled for the first week of August. Christian Tremblay (http://zodiac640.com/Project_CH640_Introduction.htm) is scratch building one in Canada and there are several other members on the list with flying planes. Doug Geese N640DG Churubusco, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Hi Jeff, I'm also building a CH640 from plans in California. Where are you located? You'll find about a half-dozen active CH640 builders/flyers on this list who would be happy to discuss any aspect of the airplane or the build process. Hopefully you will find that the CH640 fits your mission. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252806#252806 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Geese" <dgeese(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 13, 2009
Here's some inspiration for those building or prospective builders (Jeff). This is my ready for sign off CH640, 7 years in the making(pictures taken this evening). Lycoming O-340, steam gages, Garmin 250XL GPS/Comm. For you guys flying already, any flight characteristics, speeds, etc. would be appreciated. Doug Geese N640DG Ready for inspection Churubusco, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 14, 2009
I'm in Indiana. I started at the Sonerai, then to the Wittman Buttercup, then to the Bearhawk, and finally the CH-640. The more I think about what I want, the more I realize that I want to travel, and need something bigger that most 2 seaters can provide. The Bearhawk was looking good, but then I ordered plans and realized how big that welded fuselage is!! I like the 640 better, and think it will build easier in my garage..... Jeff On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:12 PM, Scott Stewart wrote: > > > > Hi Jeff, > > I'm also building a CH640 from plans in California. Where are you > located? > > You'll find about a half-dozen active CH640 builders/flyers on this > list who would be happy to discuss any aspect of the airplane or the > build process. Hopefully you will find that the CH640 fits your > mission. > > -------- > Scott Stewart > s/n: 0092 > Building from plans > Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252806#252806 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 14, 2009
I'm in Evansville, IN! I would say not too far from you, but then I remember going to South Bend and to Southhaven, MI once....and it is FAR, FAR, FAR in a car..... this is why I need my own 640! Jeff On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Doug Geese wrote: > > > Hi Jeff, > > There's not a bunch of activity on this list but occasionally a > discussion > gets started. Questions are no problem. I've just finished > building a 640 > from slow build kit and have inspection scheduled for the first week > of > August. Christian Tremblay > (http://zodiac640.com/Project_CH640_Introduction.htm) is scratch > building > one in Canada and there are several other members on the list with > flying > planes. > > Doug Geese > N640DG > Churubusco, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 14, 2009
I like it!! Have you thought about paint or polish? Jeff On Jul 13, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Doug Geese wrote: > Here's some inspiration for those building or prospective builders > (Jeff). > This is my ready for sign off CH640, 7 years in the making(pictures > taken > this evening). Lycoming O-340, steam gages, Garmin 250XL GPS/Comm. > For you > guys flying already, any flight characteristics, speeds, etc. would be > appreciated. > > Doug Geese > N640DG > Ready for inspection > Churubusco, IN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Congratulations Doug, nicely done! -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252921#252921 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Geese <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
I'm going to paint it or have it painted after Phase 1 is complete. I painted the rudder to have a place to put the N-numbers and realized I'm not all that great with a spray gun. I'll probably fly it to an aircraft paint shop. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Geese" <dgeese(at)verizon.net>
Subject: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Jeff, Fly up and see the 640 sometime. We're in a private airport community. IN62, www.tropria.net I have a neighbor who is just about ready to cover his Wittman Buttercup. It's a Starduster Too next for me! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2009
Congratulations, Doug! It looks great. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253023#253023 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 15, 2009
I Jeff, You have seen that the group is active. I am building from plan, if you have any question, and I am sure, like us, you have many, don't hesitate to question. You will received many answers from all of us. Welcome and enjoy building a CH640 Christian Tremblay www.zodiac640.com Note : An update of my website is on progress and will coming soon, 2-3 weeks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Walin Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 08:14 Subject: Zenith640-List: new member, new project? Hi, I'm Jeff and am strongly leaning toward building a CH-640. I just found this list, and was wondering if there is any activity on it? If so, just let me know, as I will have a lot of questions!! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: a few new guy questions....
Date: Jul 15, 2009
How complete are the plans and builders manual? I am a first time builder, and need something to hold my hand a little. I have many builders around in my Chapter, including Don Taylor of 'Tinker Toy' fame. I am just hoping there is some form of step by step process in the builders manual. I will be scratch building. What is the max diameter of the prop? I am thinking about a Mazda 13B Rotary and was looking at redrives and such. Will it cruise at 150 like the info claims? With a O-360 or equivalent? I'm looking for something to do cross country travelling with. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
Date: Jul 15, 2009
Thanks for the welcome, I have been to your website and hope you keep updating!! It is the kind of information that I need... Jeff On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Christian Tremblay wrote: > > > > I Jeff, > > You have seen that the group is active. I am building from plan, if > you have > any question, and I am sure, like us, you have many, don't hesitate to > question. You will received many answers from all of us. > > Welcome and enjoy building a CH640 > > Christian Tremblay > www.zodiac640.com > > Note : An update of my website is on progress and will coming soon, > 2-3 > weeks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Walin > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 08:14 > To: Zenith 640 > Subject: Zenith640-List: new member, new project? > > > > Hi, > > I'm Jeff and am strongly leaning toward building a CH-640. I just > found this list, and was wondering if there is any activity on it? If > so, just let me know, as I will have a lot of questions!! > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2009
Doug, First of all, nice job. It gives me inspiration to see other guys completing their projects! I was looking at your cockpit picture and saw that you have electric trim and flap control. What did you use, or recommend that I use to upgrade to that as well? Was it easy to switch over from the manual set-up that is included in the kit? I want to add an autopilot (just the basics, nothing crazy) and think electric control of the trim and flaps would lend itself nicely to that. I just got my wing kit and am trying to plan ahead a bit. Mark s/n 094 -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253284#253284 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: a few new guy questions....
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 15, 2009
Jeff, The rudder starter kit has a step by step picture guide that walks you through the process of building the rudder. Everything else used what's called IPLs. They are step by step in nature, but in writing only. They do tell you exactly what to do, and in what order, but there is some studying involved before building a section. They give you a disk that had about a gazillion pics on it. (I find new ones everytime I look on it). I have never built a plane before and am doing pretty good with what Zenair has provided. (I'm building from a kit also). All of us have questions though. And the guys on this site as well as Zenair themselves have been more that helpful getting me back on track when I'm stuck. Can't speak on behalf of the other questions though. I'm just finishing the stabilator, about to get the wings going. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253285#253285 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Geese <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
The trim uses a Ray Allen Company servo to move the trim tab. The switch and indicator are also Ray Allen. It all came as part of my kit. After looking at the manual trim drawings I'm sure that the electric trim is much easier to install. The electric flaps were also part of the controls kit. I think you would want to specify these options when you order your fuselage kit. I can get some pictures if you would like. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Doug, Sorry, I was really referring to the electric trim you added. I had a brain fart and forgot that the flap control comes standard as electric with the kit. You said the trim came as electric with your kit? Mine didn't. I just wanted to get rid of the trim wheel and get electric on that as well. If you get the time, some pics would be great. Thanks, Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253334#253334 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: a few new guy questions....
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Hi Jeff, If you decide to take the plunge into scratch-building the CH-640, you'll want to keep Christian's and my email addresses handy. As far as I can tell, we are the only two active scratch builders on this list. I had to develop material spreadsheets and layout drawings to determine how much raw material to buy. I would be happy to share these with you. I also needed to machine my own flanging dies, which I could share. Christian found several dimension errors in the plans which he documented on his web site. I also found a few more. I plan to compile all these into one simple document and post to this forum in the next several days. You will find that the plans and the IPLs are about 99% complete. Some of the assembly work requires you to think a bit about how everything should go together before it starts to make sense. I wrote to Steve Adams a while back about his CH-640 performance. He wrote "I have an XP-0-360 and a Sensenich FP prop and get right at 130 kts TAS at 7000 feet, but generally cruise at 120-125 kts for better economy. Most of their performance numbers are pretty realistic." Based on these numbers, I took the plunge. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253382#253382 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Walin <jwalin(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: a few new guy questions....
Date: Jul 16, 2009
Thanks, Scott. I will keep in touch if I do begin this project. I plan to get the plans around Christmas time..... What are IPL's? Do you know the max diameter of the prop? Jeff On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Scott Stewart wrote: > > > > Hi Jeff, > > If you decide to take the plunge into scratch-building the CH-640, > you'll want to keep Christian's and my email addresses handy. As > far as I can tell, we are the only two active scratch builders on > this list. I had to develop material spreadsheets and layout > drawings to determine how much raw material to buy. I would be > happy to share these with you. I also needed to machine my own > flanging dies, which I could share. > > Christian found several dimension errors in the plans which he > documented on his web site. I also found a few more. I plan to > compile all these into one simple document and post to this forum in > the next several days. You will find that the plans and the IPLs > are about 99% complete. Some of the assembly work requires you to > think a bit about how everything should go together before it starts > to make sense. > > I wrote to Steve Adams a while back about his CH-640 performance. > He wrote "I have an XP-0-360 and a Sensenich FP prop and get right > at 130 kts TAS at 7000 feet, but generally cruise at 120-125 kts for > better economy. Most of their performance numbers are pretty > realistic." Based on these numbers, I took the plunge. > > -------- > Scott Stewart > s/n: 0092 > Building from plans > Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 50%. Fuselage at 10%. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253382#253382 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Christian Tremblay <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: a few new guy questions....
Date: Jul 16, 2009
I Jeff, As somebody said before, the plans includes IPL (Intruction Part List) sort of step by step instructions, plus photo CD + a Document Standards. The IPL is a sort of high level procedure to assembly the pieces. To my opinion, those could be more detailled. But they are ok. The plan itself are very well designed, accurate and complete. 99.9% error free. I find only one minor error in the Extended spar, another CH640 constructor redesign the plan and give me digital copy. This copy is deposed onto my web site. In my opinion, the plan are great, all dies mesurement, forming bloc, and many thing are there. Many other plans don't give you this info. The plan are hand made, not computerized. But Chris Heinz is a great designer and the plan content all detailled that you need, size or holes, positionning, bolts, etc. I like those plan because is give me all info that I need, I can complete my plane whatever happen to Zenith, like bankrupties or others bad thingh that we see in this market. But the utility of plans is to tell you what to do, not How to become an aircraft constructor. This is the part that you have to learn by yourself and with the help of others. Study and read the plan many times before doing a piece, and go, sure you will do some mistake, this is the normal process to learn. I am not from this industrial sector, but after 3 years of building, I fill confident to finish my plane, and a pretty one. Performance of the plane : Sure the CH640 cruise at 150 and more. Steve Adams and other have been confirmed those numbers. See the archive of the forum, I think this was discussed before. Enjoy buidling, and go for it, the knowledge will come by itself as you will progress, this is the best advise that I can give you. See you, Christian SN00059 CH640 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Walin Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 00:16 Subject: Zenith640-List: a few new guy questions.... How complete are the plans and builders manual? I am a first time builder, and need something to hold my hand a little. I have many builders around in my Chapter, including Don Taylor of 'Tinker Toy' fame. I am just hoping there is some form of step by step process in the builders manual. I will be scratch building. What is the max diameter of the prop? I am thinking about a Mazda 13B Rotary and was looking at redrives and such. Will it cruise at 150 like the info claims? With a O-360 or equivalent? I'm looking for something to do cross country travelling with. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Wow. Nice to see a small flurry of activity on this list. Doug - Congratulations and nice job on your plane. It looks great. You will love how it flies. As far as speeds, here are a few ballpark numbers and tips for you first flight. Obviously, these numbers are in my plane, so until you verify your ASI accuracy etc, please don't take them as hard numbers for your airplane. Flying solo it accelerates quickly on the runway. Until you find the best setting for you, set the elevator trim in a neutral position initially. This will require some back pressure on the yoke to get the nose wheel off the ground at about 55 kts, it will then fly itself off shortly after. Vx is 65 kts and Vy is 74 kts in my plane. Stall clean is 48 KIAS and with flaps is 42 KIAS. For landing, I pull power back to 1500 abeam the numbers, put in 10 of flaps, slow to 80 KTS on base with 20-30 of flaps, 70 kts on final and 65 kts over the fence with full flaps. If you have the runway length available, you can probably come in a bit faster until you are comfortable with it's slow flight handling characteristics. It can be tough to keep the nosewheel up after the mains touch, but this is usually because you land a bit fast. There are really no quirky flight characteristics. Have fun and be careful. Jeff - welcome. I think you made a great choice in building the 640. I have the manual elevator trim, which I like. The trim wheel mechanism seems a bit complicated, but is really not that difficult to assemble, and has worked flawlessly so far (700 hrs). Have fun building and flying. Steve 621J Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253462#253462 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jul 17, 2009
Hey Steve, Thanks for all the numbers. It gives me something to compare to flying Cessna's (which is the only fixed wing experience I have). I do have about 3000 hours in helicopters, but I learned quickly when getting my fixed wing license that a good airplane wants to fly. ALL helicopters want to kill you!! Anyway, you said you have to manual trim. Any wishes that you had electric trim? I'm a gadget guy and big time avionics geek. I'm trying to decide if electric trim will really make things easier/ better in the long run, or if I'm just wanting it because I think It's cool. Thanks Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253589#253589 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 20, 2009
Personally, I like the manual trim. I actually have the servo for the electric trim because they actually sent my kit with the trim bellcrank set up for electric trim with the servo installed. I took it off and went with the manual trim and have no regrets. I'm sure either way works fine so go with whatever you are comfortable with. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253846#253846 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Geese <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Phase 1 Flight Report
My 640 was inspected on August 4th and since then I've flown 3.8 hours. Wh at a great flying airplane! I've stalled it clean at 35 knots, done 127 kn ots at 4000' AGL, climb at 1200 FPM. Took it to another airport for the fi rst time today. Having a lot of fun with my new toy! Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Phase 1 Flight Report
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Congratulations, I was wondering how the first flights went. Have fun and be careful. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263664#263664 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Hi All, I am trying to position the F4-3 horizontal tail attach plates. On page F4 of the plans, it shows a vertical dimension of 150 mm from the centerline of the rivets into the upper longeron to the centerline of the F4-3 horizontal tail attach plate. Yet this puts the attach plate low in the opening between the upper and lower rear side skins. To center the attach plate in this opening, this dimension should be closer to 135 mm. I have found a couple of places in my new computer-generated plans where the dimensions were typed incorrectly during the transition, and I am concerned this is another case. Could someone help confirm the vertical dimension to use for positioning the plates? Thanks! -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263730#263730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Please disregard the last question. I calculated the correct distance to be 143 mm from the top of the upper longerons based on the required stabilator deflections shown on page M50 and the position of the F27 stops. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263793#263793 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 20, 2009
I am finally on the wings and was looking for some advice on keeping them true and straight. I was looking at the pictures on the disk Zenith provided me and saw how they kept everything straight. However, I don't have a nice metal bench with lots of long straight metal stock to keep everything in alignment. I have a 14 x 16 wood work table that is about as close to perfectly flat as I can get it. (it has minor variations of about 2 to 3mm here and there). I was just wondering what anyone else used to keep the ribs and assemblies in plane with each other, and properly aligned with the spar. I saw in the plans that there is only an 8mm twist allowed from root to tip. Thanks. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264056#264056 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Phase 1 Flight Report
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 20, 2009
So is it painted yet? I'd really like to see a pic of the paint scheme you decided on. Congrats by the way! -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264058#264058 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing question
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Mark, I don't speak from experience yet because I keep ending up in OIF or OEF without having a chance to get started. What I have seen people do is use the metal 2x4s you see at places like Home Depot. This technique is used often in the Homebuilt Help videos. Hope this helps some. James s/n 086 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264085#264085 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Doug, great job. It makes me so happy to start seeing some more 640s come to life. It seems like forever that we've only had the same 3 airframes in the US. (Zenith's N640Z, Jeff Paden's, and Steve Adams') If you need any help coming up with a paint scheme let me know. I enjoy helping people out for free. James s/n 086 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264086#264086 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
These are the 3 schemes I am considering for my project when it is finished... in about 7 years. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264087#264087 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch_640_blue_white_171.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch_640_blue_gray_141.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch_640_black_cherry_845.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Anyone considering a Franklin to power their 640?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
I visited the Franklin booth at Sun-N-Fun last April. It seems they intend to make a come-back in the US and beat the prices of Lycomings and their clones by a significant amount. One of the challenges in building a 640 is that there aren't that many out there. I don't know of anyone who has put anything other than a Lyc on the front of their 640. There are several examples of 801s flying around with different powerplants from LOMs to Fords and Subarus. There are also companies that make the FWF kits for the Franklin on the 801. How different is the 640 firewall from that of the 801? I know Chris Heintz likes to keep as much commonality with his airframes as possible, i.e. the 750 shares the same FWF as the 601/650. Plus, take a look at the cowling used for the Franklin. It is just so much more attractive than the standard 640 cowl with the "blisters" bulging out to accommodate the O-360. Any thoughts? James s/n 086 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264088#264088 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/franklin220_2_513.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/franklin220_airlink_1_905.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone considering a Franklin to power their 640?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
I have been told that the 640 and 801 have identical FWF, with only one significant difference. The 801 has a mount attachment top center firewall that the CH-640 does not have. The purpose is to transfer loads up to the high wing. The thrust line drawing is strangely missing from the 640 plans package. I'm going Mazda 13b p-port rotary conversion. About half the cost of Lycoming. Much higher reliability. Just ordered the fuselage kit. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264099#264099 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
You have computer generated plans?????? when did this happen? :o -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264100#264100 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
Hi Craig, I took delivery of my plans in January 2008. Presumably to change to computer-generated plans happened some time in late 2007, because I don't know if anyone else on this list who has them. BTW, I sent my dimensioning question to the factory. They replied saying they checked their assembly fixture, confirmed that my numbers were correct, and that they have updated the F4 drawing. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264175#264175 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing question
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 21, 2009
I used six 2" x 2" x 60" square steel tubes with wall thickness of about .090 to construct the base on top of my wooden table. You wings are bigger so you might need a couple more. I have some pictures around December 2006 in the Wings section of mykitlog -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264257#264257 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
I'm glad to hear that Zenair has decided to start tending to the ch-640 again. For a while there it seemed the 640 had become the unwanted step child of the Zenith line. Did you notice if the wing spar error that Chris Tremblay had found is now updated in the drawings? I had tried in an earlier post to coax folks to help keep track of updates on this list so everyone all had the latest information, as Zenair does not care to inform the 640 crowd of any changes. The only thing that's changed on the website since 2005 is the price of the kit. Hopefully they include an updated set of drawings with my fuselage kit. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264282#264282 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone considering a Franklin to power their 640?
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
At least at the time I finished my plane, the FWF of the 640 was the same as the 801 except for the engine mount. So theoretically, FWF packages for the 801 could easily be adapted to the 601 as far as getting it to fit. W+B issues, thrust line issues, and engine mount attachment points would seem to me to be the main things to check out prior to going that route. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264286#264286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone considering a Franklin to power their 640?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
I actually wrote Tim Ward yesterday asking this question. This was the reply: "Tim is no longer with Zenair. I will be handling all technical questions and any sales support is handled by Anita Mitchell." Anybody know what happened to Tim? and they also said... "The firewall is the same on a CH801 & a CH640. I have spoken with Travis @ Kobush Welding and he has built engine mounts for the Franklin engine on the CH640 & would be glad to build one for you." So this verifies the fact that the 801 and the 640 have the same FWF. I suppose the thrust line (as mentioned) would also have to be considered. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264300#264300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone considering a Franklin to power their 640?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
If you dig around on the Zenith 801 builder resources section I think you can actually find the thrust line drawing for the 801 still. I could be wrong. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264314#264314 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
FlyGuy, those are really nice images, what program are you using? -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264318#264318 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
Craig, Those are all PowerPoint autoshapes. Would you like me to create something for you? James s/n 086 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264321#264321 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
Never knew power point had the capability, but I looked down at the bottom status bar and there it is. What did you use as a basic drawing, or did you make the whole thing from scratch? -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264329#264329 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: new member, new project?
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
The entire thing was made from scratch. It started off as just a multi-sided polygon. Then just keep adding points and curves until you get the outline of an airplane. James s/n 086 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264330#264330 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
All they did was transfer the hand-drawn plans to computer-drawn. The wing spar error is still in the plans. They also added a few typographical errors in the transfer. Luckily in a couple of places, I could compare a picture of the hand-drawn plans (e.g. P1010080.65.jpg in the Stage 2 fuselage directory) with my computer-drawn version and resolve the differences. But most of the time I had to calculate the correct numbers. I still plan on posting the corrections I have found so far, but I wanted to collect them into one document first. I'll start a new thread when I get this together. I wish we had a centralized web site (something like http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm) where we could post our collective knowledge about the CH640. Searching through this email list is not optimal for future builders. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264342#264342 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2009
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Matronics has a Wiki you could use for this purpose... http://wiki.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Carlos CH601-HD,plans Montreal, Canada 2009/9/22 Scott Stewart > scott_stewart(at)agilent.com> > > ... > > I wish we had a centralized web site (something like > http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm) where we could post our > collective knowledge about the CH640. Searching through this email list is > not optimal for future builders. > > -------- > Scott Stewart > s/n: 0092 > Building from plans > Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2009
That's great ! I didn't know about the Wiki feature. I have started the CH640 wiki at http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/CH_640. I will fill in the errata page with the items I have collected so far. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264357#264357 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Sep 23, 2009
I have populated the CH640 errata wiki page at http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Complete_CH_640_Errata with everything I have collected so far. This is a public page which can be freely edited by everyone. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264615#264615 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Great thing you've done there Scott. I don't know how many on this list received the e-mail yesterday from Zenair. Anita announced that anyone with a 640 serial number can upgrade their plans to the computer drawings for $150. I think someone is finally reading this list at Zenair. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264913#264913 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca
Date: Sep 25, 2009
Subject: Re: Dimensioning Question
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing question
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 05, 2009
Thanks guys, Both tips will work well. One for establishing a nice flat table top, and the other will help keep all the ribs and wing pieces in alignment. It's nice to have fresh ideas when you are stuck against a wall! -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266607#266607 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A CH-640 with an RV-10 canopy and RV-10 engine cowl
From: "FlyGuyTililDie" <flyguytilidie(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 30, 2009
These were built by Ibraex in Brazil. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270097#270097 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_ch_640_3_125.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_ch_640_1_2_294.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_ch_640_1_482.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During
November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 640 Resurgance! and US Customs
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 03, 2009
I just got back from Zenair in Canada, picking up my wings kit. just as I was about to pull out, Matthiew Heinz tapped on my window and offered a quick look around. He showed me 2 640 fuselages, and wings for quick build kits in progress. He said that in Europe, there is growing interest in the 640. This is good news, as that is motivation for the company to pay attention to continued support and development of the design. Took some quick pics, but had to skedaddle, as I had a long drive ahead. The real problems occurred when trying to come back across the border. What no one tells you is that while you may save the crating and shipping charges by picking up at the factory, US customs will give you a hard time. Any materials/parts you bring with a combined value of more than $2500, requires that you hire a customs broker, have commercial paperwork, and documentation to certify Canadian origin of all parts down to the nuts and bolts, in spite of the so-called free trade agreement. Also, you cannot just drive through the normal customs lines, you will have to go through the commercial trucking gates. After nearly 2 hours of waiting and answering stupid questions, I got sent over the the commercial gates, and finally encountered an agent with common sense, and no ego that needed to prove how powerful the badge and gun are, he explained what the issues were (who knew?, unless you have ESP), and said it was obvious I was a private individual, not a commercial venture, so he would cut me a brake. He said that they could have sent me back into Canada, and worse. I don't know what customs brokers charge, but it would have been nice for Zenair to give me a heads up. They ship across the border all the time, and could have mentioned the potential problems, as I had informed them when I placed the order that I was going to pick them up myself. Live and learn. Final note, if you get the new CAD drawings, included is a new updated construction CD. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270759#270759 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2009
Subject: Re: 640 Resurgance! and US Customs
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Craig, my experience with custom brokers is limited to what I am charged the few times the sender insists on using UPS for shipping. In this case, the charges amount to one arm and a leg, sometimes both legs. It can add 50% to 80% of the original merchandise cost. Note that this in the opposite sense you described (i.e., US to Canada). There might be easier and cheaper ways for you to bring the kit home, perhaps it's a matter of investigating ahead of time. Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada 2009/11/3 pilot4pay > pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> > > I just got back from Zenair in Canada, picking up my wings kit. > ... > I don't know what customs brokers charge, but it would have been nice for > Zenair to give me a heads up. They ship across the border all the time, and > could have mentioned the potential problems, as I had informed them when I > placed the order that I was going to pick them up myself. Live and learn. > Final note, if you get the new CAD drawings, included is a new updated > construction CD. > > -------- > Craig Smith > CH640 builder > SN: 0078 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Geese <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Date: Nov 03, 2009
Subject: 640 Resurgance! and US Customs
I had the same experience with customs while picking up my wing kit. On th e fuselage I had a private shipper arranged by Zenith deliver it. This was essentially an older gentleman with a truck and trailer. He backed it rig ht into my garage, unloaded and was gone. I think it was about $350 for sh ipping (1000 mile roundtrip). Much easier! Doug From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Zenith640-List: 640 Resurgance! and US Customs Craig, my experience with custom brokers is limited to what I am charged th e few times the sender insists on using UPS for shipping. In this case, the charges amount to one arm and a leg, sometimes both legs. It can add 50% to 80% of the original merchandise cost. Note that this in the opposite sense you described (i.e., US to Canada). There might be easier and cheaper ways for you to bring the kit home, perha ps it's a matter of investigating ahead of time. Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Montreal, Canada 2009/11/3 pilot4pay > et> I just got back from Zenair in Canada, picking up my wings kit. ... I don't know what customs brokers charge, but it would have been nice for Z enair to give me a heads up. They ship across the border all the time, and could have mentioned the potential problems, as I had informed them when I placed the order that I was going to pick them up myself. Live and learn. Final note, if you get the new CAD drawings, included is a new updated cons truction CD. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 rsbooks.com> m> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "KUB" <kubiack(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Hey everyone, I just joined the forum and am interested in building a 640. My interests in build a plane is mostly for the challenge and enjoyment of building one. I would like to build from plans, no kit, if possible. My intended use for the plane will be cross country travel and I would also like a four seat. The only planes I have found on the kit market that seem to fit are the 640 and the RV10; was anyone considering anything else when deciding on the 640? From what I can tell these two planes are very similar with the 640 costing less but having less interior room and performance. Also no plans seem to be available for the RV. Are these assumptions correct? For those of you who have sat in or flown one how is the leg room in the pilots seats? I am 6 5 tall will I be too cramped in this plane? Finally does anyone have an update zodiac640.com? I would love to see some details about Christian Tremblay build. Thanks Brandon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271389#271389 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Hi Brandon, Welcome to the list. I am also building my CH640 from plans. Like you, I wanted a plane for cross country travel which had a high useful load. I was frustrated that I could not put four people into my C-172 with all of our luggage. I also considered the RV10, along with the various composite kits. In the end, I chose to build an all-metal airplane. And having more time than money, I chose to build from plans. I asked Van's, and they confirmed that the RV10 can not be built from plans. They also confirmed that the performance would be similar to a 640 if the RV10 had an O-360. >From what I found, the 640 is the best 4-place, all-metal, plans-built plane on the market. I was a little concerned that the baggage space would be insufficient, but I am at the point in the build where I can see that I can customize the baggage space to fit my needs (always being careful of W&B). I never sat in a 640 until I built mine. It is now far enough along that I can sit in it, and the leg room is fine. Also, the front seats have a lot of room for adjustment. I do not have a web site with my build details, like Christian has. (No time to invest in setting up a site.) But if you would like to see any information on my build, just let me know. I can email back to you off line. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271401#271401 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "KUB" <kubiack(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2009
Scott, Thanks for the quick reply I appreciate it. Im really just starting our with my research but hope to start building something next fall. I am sure I will have many questions and will be taking you up on your offer to see the details of your build. I probably should have also mentioned that I am only looking into metal planes. Brandon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271406#271406 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Nov 07, 2009
Hi Brandon Welcome to our CH640 builder group forum. Concerning RV10, no plans are available for any RV models. This is not in the initial intend and the philosopy of Van's conceptor, who design the RV planes. Secondo, these planes included many complex pieces in metal, named "compound form". This mean piece are made by complex bending like banana curves (two opposite curves or bends), who cannot be done with simple metal brake, but with expensive machines. Pieces like this are the bulk head of the fuselage, the canopy or the cooling covers. I suspect wing includes also additional kind of curving forms (sure, ribs contain compound forms, like in 640). For my website, sorry my web site is currently offline, I got some problem not solved yet with the internet provider (very bad support). I work on this, I will advise you and the gang when it will be online again. Good luck, and go head, it is an amazing experience to build from plan. Christian -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271553#271553 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Herder" <herderm(at)evalcontrol.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith640-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/06/09
Date: Nov 07, 2009
-----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zenith640-List Digest Server Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:59 AM Subject: Zenith640-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/06/09 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Zenith640-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith640-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-11-06&Archive=Zenith640 Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2009-11-06&Archive=Zenith640 =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith640-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/06/09: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:07 PM - Considering 640 Input Needed (KUB) 2. 01:18 PM - Re: Considering 640 Input Needed (Scott Stewart) 3. 02:17 PM - Re: Considering 640 Input Needed (KUB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Subject: Zenith640-List: Considering 640 Input Needed From: "KUB" <kubiack(at)suddenlink.net> Hey everyone, I just joined the forum and am interested in building a 640. My interests in build a plane is mostly for the challenge and enjoyment of building one. I would like to build from plans, no kit, if possible. My intended use for the plane will be cross country travel and I would also like a four seat. The only planes I have found on the kit market that seem to fit are the 640 and the RV10; was anyone considering anything else when deciding on the 640? From what I can tell these two planes are very similar with the 640 costing less but having less interior room and performance. Also no plans seem to be available for the RV. Are these assumptions correct? For those of you who have sat in or flown one how is the leg room in the pilots seats? I am 6 5 tall will I be too cramped in this plane? Finally does anyone have an update zodiac640.com? I would love to see some details about Christian Tremblay build. Thanks Brandon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271389#271389 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com> Hi Brandon, Welcome to the list. I am also building my CH640 from plans. Like you, I wanted a plane for cross country travel which had a high useful load. I was frustrated that I could not put four people into my C-172 with all of our luggage. I also considered the RV10, along with the various composite kits. In the end, I chose to build an all-metal airplane. And having more time than money, I chose to build from plans. I asked Van's, and they confirmed that the RV10 can not be built from plans. They also confirmed that the performance would be similar to a 640 if the RV10 had an O-360. >From what I found, the 640 is the best 4-place, all-metal, plans-built plane on the market. I was a little concerned that the baggage space would be insufficient, but I am at the point in the build where I can see that I can customize the baggage space to fit my needs (always being careful of W&B). I never sat in a 640 until I built mine. It is now far enough along that I can sit in it, and the leg room is fine. Also, the front seats have a lot of room for adjustment. I do not have a web site with my build details, like Christian has. (No time to invest in setting up a site.) But if you would like to see any information on my build, just let me know. I can email back to you off line. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 65%. Fuselage at 40%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271401#271401 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed From: "KUB" <kubiack(at)suddenlink.net> Scott, Thanks for the quick reply I appreciate it. Im really just starting our with my research but hope to start building something next fall. I am sure I will have many questions and will be taking you up on your offer to see the details of your build. I probably should have also mentioned that I am only looking into metal planes. Brandon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271406#271406 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "KUB" <kubiack(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: Nov 09, 2009
Christian, Thanks for the responses. Hopefully you will get everything worked out with your provider. I am looking forward to seeing your site up and seeing the progress on the plane. Brandon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271905#271905 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists ----------- Few things in life bring more usefulness than the List. This is worth every penny! Stephen T. I have enjoyed the list for way too many years, but continue to get closer to flying my project with the help of listers. C.L. Thanks for this List. It's been a great source of encouragement and information. Arden A. Great service! Gerald T. It's always interesting reading the lists and I've gotten some good help from the issues and answers there. Steve T. Been a member of the List for 12 years. Keep up the good work. John H. Great Site! Harry M. Great source of information... Martin H. Thanks for providing this great service! Jeff P. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C. This is a wonderful resource! Warren H. This is what inernet was meant for, sharing information and experience. Michael W. Thanks for making such a good list! Fred D. Thanks for running a great service! Michael F. I really appreciate it. Dan H. Thanks for the great service. Michael L. Thanks for maintaining this great resource. John C. Your sites have been a great resourses and an introduction to many competent aircraft designers and fabricators. Jon M. Thanks for all that you do to maintain the Matronics forums and for the personal help that you have been to me in answering my questions regarding the use of the forums. William B. [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. Ralph C. The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 21%...
Dear Listers, As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments, make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has been very good, but still well behind last year. If you've been waiting until the last minute to make your contribution and maybe even pick up a great gift, now might be good time to show your support! Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching. I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses, I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers? Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%...
Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience, please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way! http://www.matronics.com/contribution I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with you as well. Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator --------------------------- Member Feedback ---------------------------- ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental Aircraft subculture. John G Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch of list members. Great videos and no SPAM. Paul C It has been a valuable tool. Troy M ..appreciate the site as much as ever. Larry M By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great advice, made friends, and saved money! Craig W Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as far as fabrication of electrical systems. However, selectively reading various topics is still very valuable and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous subscriber. Larry F Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning to build my RV-10! Philip W There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list, and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good entertainment, too. Graham H Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building. Bob S I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very helpful. Vaughn T Good service to sport aviation!! Roger B Awesome Service you provide for us! Bill R My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be close without the [this] group. Douwe B Great list. Robert S I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list. Peter M Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information. Tony C Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are entertaining and always informative! John M Thanks for this valuable resource to our community. Barry H The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net. John B Thanks again for providing another year of your useful List service. Jerry B Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually learn something. Peter B You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety. Richard G The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I have made a bunch of new friends as well! Les K The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep up the good work. Freddie H Every year -- the best value for my time and money! Owen B This list is a major contribution to safe building! Donald K Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me. Walter S In the last 18 months I have been privileged to listen & ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters... Stewart G You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run and managed. Larry W The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C ..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!! Rob B ..the best forum on the Internet! Robert B I can't tell you how grateful I am for your list and your subscribers to keep me up to date and holding the dream. Ashley M This page makes it easy to contribute. Jeffrey P Thank you for your expertise in creating & running the much useful lists! Anthony P Thanks for providing our advertising free on line community. George R Thanks for maintaining the equipment and software to provide this valuable source of information to us individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people than you realize. Ross H Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete and flying I still get a wealth of information from all the messages. Marcus C Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had discovered you sooner. Jack B This is an invaluable communications media for us common minded folks to exchange technical and other information. George H ..great service that you provide. David W ..still appreciate your list. Alain L [The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has helped me enormously in my project. William B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2009 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2009 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running. You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I also want to thank Bob, Jon, Andy, and John for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com John Caldwell - HowToCrimp - www.howtocrimp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2009 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2009.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Dec 30, 2009
Brandon, the CH-640 offers a lot of capability, but asks for a serious commitment of your time. True of any home built aircraft. We have all weathered the recent economic tumult, some have made it, others have struggled. Be clear that your commitment will cost you money and time. If you can budget the expenses and workload on paper then proceed! Don't waste money if you can't budget the project all the way to completion. Money has been my major constraint, not technical skill. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279358#279358 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "SteveCH640" <matron(at)reintek.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2010
I have flown the RV 10 at Vans Aircraft and I have flown a Alrus 2000 as a flight school rental. The 2000 is a 2 seat version of the CH640. I have sat in the original Zenith owned CH 640 prototype. So here are my opinions; If time and money were no object I would go with the RV 10. Very roomy even in the back seat. Very crisp but docile flying. If you push it the RV 10 becomes very powerful and can do some minor aerobatics. If you don't push it, it is very well behaved and easy to fly. You can make it change it's personality depending on how you fly it. The flying experience is best described as wow! that is one nice plane! Now the bad; Driven rivets not pulled. Very expensive kit and engine. Long time building. If you fly the RV 10 at Zenith CH 640 speeds it gets 11 gallons per hour. If you push the RV10 to about 190 it gets 22 gallons per hour. But boy, it is a nice plane. The CH2000 Fun and crisp flying. It was nicer to fly than a C152. Kind of like an English sports car. Small, fun, cheap and not too powerful. I would chose it over a Cessna 152. Very easy and sooth and forgiving landings. The CH 640 prototype. Just sat in it. Not flying. Front seat area and control feel identical to the CH 2000. The back seat was a joke. It is not a seat that is useful by anyone over 5 years old. The new plans have it moved back about 4 inches. With this improvement one adult could sit slightly sideways and towards the center. The plus points are simple construction and pulled rivets. The bad is, their support and quality is now almost non-existant as they headed for the light sport market gold rush. It is not listed even on some of their web sites. I stopped building after my rudder. Their rudder kit had too many quality problem. Now about 2 years later I am hoping Zenith might care more and support this plane again. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279711#279711 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2010
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth since I have over 700 hours flying the 640. While both the 640 and the RV-10 are both all metal 4 place aircraft, they are really not in the same class. The RV-10 is bigger, faster, more difficult to build, and much more expensive to build and maintain. With that said, if you understand the 640's limitations and have realistic expectations, the 640 is a wonderful aircraft. It has great performance off the runway, is extremely stable and easy to fly(great for IFR), has decent performance numbers in cruise, and has been easy and inexpensive to maintain. The controls are a bit heavy at cruise speed, but very responsive and balanced. It has a great useful load, but does suffer from a cramped rear cabin area. If I could make one change to the plane, I wish they would have stretched the fuselage a bit to open up the rear cabin. As it is, I still fly with my 3 kids (ages 15, 11, and 11) fairly comfortably. At 6'5" you will need to have the front seat pretty far back which will effectively make it a 3 seater. Since I built from a quickbuilt kit, I can't comment on the difficulty of building from plans. While there were a few glitches with the kit, overall there was good support from the factory and the plans and documentation were very good in my opinion. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280208#280208 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca
Date: Jan 05, 2010
Subject: Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re : Re: Considering 640 Input Needed
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2010
Christian, My plane does have the change to the rear seat, moving it back about 4 inches. The way my plane is finished, 2 normal sized adults cannot fit comfortably in the rear seats. I do have pretty thick seats (2 1/2 inches of foam and 1/2 inch plywood) which does take away quite a bit of room when your talking about a space where a few inches could make a real difference. The thinnest seat foam you can comfortably get away with would probably be the easiest way maximize the available space. The nice plush seats look good and are comfortable but do waste space. An adult sitting in back will have their knees up against the seat back. This is aggravated by the elevated floor in the rear (which brings the knees up higher where the space is the least due to the rearward slant of the back of the front seat). You could try decreasing the angle between the front seat back and the lower seat cushion. A few degrees change might not be noticeable when sitting in the front, and that could add a few inches of knee space. Sliding the front seat too far forward will bring the average sized persons knees in contact with the bottom of the instrument panel so there is not a lot of leeway there. You could also decrease the angle of the rear seats back panel to give another inch or so of knee room, but the rear seating position is already pretty upright so that may end up a bit uncomfortable as well. Moving the whole rear seat back any further and, due to the slope of the rear canopy, your passengers will be hitting their heads on the roof. So as you can see I have thought about this, but thus far the limited space has not been enough of a liability to try and make any changes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280286#280286 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking for drawing number
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Does anyone know where I can find the detail for the skin that covers the upper fuselage, between the firewall and instrument panel? I have looked through the F section of my plans book several times, and can't seem to pick it out. It is probably staring me right in the face. But I don't have a drawing number. Any help is appreciated. [Question] -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284173#284173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for drawing number
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Hi Craig, Isn't that part of the canopy you get from Zenair? I looked on the CD I received with the plans and found pictures at Canopy/Canopy-21a.jpg and Canopy/Canopy-26.jpg (attached) which show the upper surface between the firewall and the instrument panel is a molded fiberglass piece. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 70%. Fuselage at 50%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284384#284384 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/canopy_26_154.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/canopy_21a_555.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for drawing number
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Thanks, that clears it up nicely. :D -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284405#284405 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CAD diask and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 03, 2010
I saw Craig mentioned in another post something about the new CAD drawings on CD that come with new pics. I have seen this somewhere before but can't remember where. Does anyone know how I go about getting them? Does anyone know of a P.O.C. at the company I can contact and request them? Also, does anyone remember how much they cost? Thanks, Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289087#289087 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: CAD disk and new Photos
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Hey Now! Mark, I had problems with the CD, something with their version of PDF encryption. Could not read several folders on 3 different computers. I asked them about it, they sent me a second CD copy, and the same issue. I sent them some more details on the issue but Anita ignored it and never responded. I have not seen the new format drawings, so if you decide to drop the coin, give us all a review if they are worth it. Here is a copy of the message: For all of you who are building your own Zodiac 640 aircraft, you can now upgrade your airframe drawings to the new CAD format. Cost is $150.00 which includes shipping and an update CD ROM with more assembly photos. Please call Anita at Zenair if you are interested in this offer. 705-526-2871. For builder technical assistance, please contact Cleo King at Zenair or by email at cleoking13(at)gmail.com. www.zenair.com 705-526-2871 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Click on the link below to be removed from the ZODIAC CH 640 kit aircraft e-mail list. http://www.zenithair.com/cgi/maillist/mail4.cgi?pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net (Or copy and paste the link into your browser) --------------------------------------------------------------------- C. Smith SN0078 I saw Craig mentioned in another post something about the new CAD drawings on CD that come with new pics. I have seen this somewhere before but can't remember where. Does anyone know how I go about getting them? Does anyone know of a P.O.C. at the company I can contact and request them? Also, does anyone remember how much they cost? Thanks, Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Thanks Craig, I'll check it out and post any updates I discover. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289123#289123 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Smith" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Who clicked on the unsubscribe link? You took my name off the 640 list. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of super58d Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 7:20 PM Subject: Zenith640-List: Re: CAD disk and new Photos Thanks Craig, I'll check it out and post any updates I discover. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289123#289123 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2010
I was browsing through "The SportPlane Builder" the other day, and ran across the section on access panels. Tony Bingelis makes some good points about the need to have access panels planned into the build. Almost on a "more is better" theory. Do any of you who have completed (or are almost complete) your -640 have any suggestions on where extra panels, that aren't already part of the plans, should be? I'm just starting the wings, and would like to plan these panels in now, before it gets too late. Had I thought of it, I would have placed one on the rudder near where the taillight is, so I could get behind the light mount to the wire bundle without having to pull it way out of the light hole. Any suggestions for any part of the plane would be great so I can start thinking about it now. Thanks. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295569#295569 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2010
Hi Mark, It's great that you are asking this question as you start the wings. Unfortunately, the plans do a poor job of suggesting appropriate access points for inspecting the fuel system in the wings. So think carefully about how you will access the junction between the fuel tanks and the fuel lines. You will need to periodically (every couple of years) drain the fuel tanks and remove the finger strainers at the tank outlet to make sure they are clean. And if you have resistive fuel senders, you will need to periodically remove and inspect them. This is why you use screws on these items instead of rivets. The plans just show that you install the fuel tank and wrap the leading edge skin around it. No access holes, no inspection holes. Page 3 of the wing assembly IPL simply states "a small 4x4 inch access cover may be installed on the bottom skin, inboard of nose rib #4, for easy inspection of the fuel finger screen". It should say "nose rib #5", not 4, and 4x4 is too small to get access to the fuel sender. So think through what you will need to get access to and why, and what will be in the way inside the wing (fuel line, wires). My technical counselor made a good point when I started to attach the leading edge skins to the nose ribs. He said there are two types of fuel tanks -- those that have leaked and those that will. A fuel system may be solid for 15-20 years or more, but eventually the tank sealant breaks down and the fuel tank needs to be refurbished. He has built seven planes on his own and restored several others, so I trust his experience. He thought that drilling out all of the leading edge skin rivets to be able to remove the fuel tank was just asking for trouble. He suggested that I break the inboard leading edge skin into two pieces, one that spans from nose rib 1 to 5, and another that covers the fuel tank between ribs 5 and 7. Then, install anchor nuts in nose ribs 5 and 7, install the far inboard and outboard nose skins as called out in the plans, and install the skin over the fuel tank with #10 screws. This way, the skin can be opened at each annual condition check, and the fuel tank, hose, and fittings can all be checked. I can discuss the details of what I did if you are interested. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 70%. Fuselage at 50%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295761#295761 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 26, 2010
Hey Scott, Thanks for the good info in the reply. I'd love any info or suggestions you have to offer. Tony Bingelis did say that he'd make the fuel tank totally accessible as well. Any suggestions or pics on how you did it (if you did) would be greatly appreciated. Also, how did you find a technical counselor? I live in Savannah GA, and don't think we have an EAA chapter near us. I'll give you my e-mail if you'd rather send the suggestions that way. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295792#295792 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
Macsmachine had a really good design for inspection panels. I am planning on putting them everywhere that I will need to check a bolt/fuel filter/level sender or strobe driver. On my 701 I have two at each wing root, one where the strut anchors attach, one out near the wing tip so I can get to the strobe driver and one near the tail so I can get to the elevator tension adjustment. I may replace this one with a large access cover incase I end up putting the battery out there for balance purposes. Regards, John CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300 Cell: 719-494-4567 Home: 303-648-3261 In a message dated 4/26/2010 5:31:34 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, smarkburrows(at)gmail.com writes: --> Zenith640-List message posted by: "super58d" Hey Scott, Thanks for the good info in the reply. I'd love any info or suggestions you have to offer. Tony Bingelis did say that he'd make the fuel tank totally accessible as well. Any suggestions or pics on how you did it (if you did) would be greatly appreciated. Also, how did you find a technical counselor? I live in Savannah GA, and don't think we have an EAA chapter near us. I'll give you my e-mail if you'd rather send the suggestions that way. Mark -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295792#295792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2010
Hi Mark, I will pull together some pictures and other info in the next several days and email it to you. How long to do have until you need the details? I am pretty lucky that I live near EAA chapter 124. We are quite large, with several very experienced technical counselors. We are also home to the CAFE Foundation -- http://www.cafefoundation.org/ -- where technical expertise seems to be limitless. A quick Google search shows EAA chapter 330 in your area. I highly recommend talking with others who have built several other airplanes. Talking through an issue with experienced builders has gotten me through some tough decisions. Scott -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 75%. Fuselage at 60%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295903#295903 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2010
John, Thanks for the site. He does have a pretty neat idea for inspection plates. They look pretty simple too. Scott, I'm not in a huge hurry. Right now I'm just planning and setting out goals and ideas. I'm deployed to Afghanistan, so I won't get back to the wings for about 6 months. All I got done on them before I left was to install the wingtip extensions. Thanks for the EAA chapter suggestion. It's listed as Springfield, GA on the EAA find a chapter directory. It never even occured to me that that would be Savannah. No hurry on the pics and stuff. I'd appreciate anything you could give. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295919#295919 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2010
It is great that you are thinking ahead about this. While building you have open access to everything and it is very easy to forget about doing maintenance on the completed plane, which is completely different than building. Something as simple as checking the torque on a bolt can turn into an hour long game requiring 3 hands, a mirror, the skills of a contortionist and a lot of luck, so the more access you have the better. I have the standard sized access panels in the wing, and while I have changed out a fuel sender and replaced some pitot tubing through these panels, it was tight. I also put an access panel on the rear seat bottom for direct access to the control cable pulleys under the seat. Another thing to consider is access behind the instrument panel and where you put everything. Try laying on your back with your head under the panel and see how well you can see and reach things, and how long you can stand laying like that (it's not a lot of fun). So it's best to have good, relatively easy access from the front of the panel. As far as the fuel tanks, there is no sealant or bladder to go bad, so most likely any leak you have will be either around the sender or where the fuel line attaches. Making big changes to have easy access to the whole tank seems a bit overkill to me. Good luck and keep thinking ahead. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296287#296287 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2010
Steve, Great ideas, thanks. I never even thought about the seat bottoms. As for the instrument panel, where would you propose an access panel go? I was thinking of making the instrument panel hinge downward, or have sections that hinge down, so as to make maintenance and getting behind easier. I think It'd make wiring and install of the panel components much easier too. The top I'd secure with screws and decent sized anchor nuts. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296320#296320 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inspection/ Maintenance panels
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 03, 2010
My panel is just like the prototype, which with a few tweeks is actually a good design. A hinged panel would be pretty nice if the longer instruments don't get hung up on the glare shield when you try and fold it out. On the right is an open panel which gives pretty good access. I mounter the encoder, panel dimmer, and signal splitter for the VOR/glidesplope behind it for easy access, and I can reach a lot of the radio stack through this access as well. The panel is also modular, so I can pull the flight intstrument panel, VOR panel, and or radio panels out separately. It does become a challenge to keep all the wiring and tubing neat and secured, while still allowing enough slack to slide the panels out. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296578#296578 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/panel_1_768.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Craig, I just ordered my CAD disk and addressed the files not opening problem. Anita said they did finally address the issue and it has been resolved. She said it had something to do with how they were copying the files to the disk. I'm deployed right now, and go home on leave in mid-July. I won't get the disk until then, but I'll let you know if they've fixed it or not. If they have, I can e-mail you the files you have that won't open. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299881#299881 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Thanks, Very thoughtful of you. Too bad Zenair doesn't respect it's customers enough to follow up on their concerns by themselves. [Rolling Eyes] As I had sent a couple of e-mails to Anita expressing my concern over the issue. She just blew me off, no reply. Makes me hate to send them more money, but I'm hooked on the kit now. C. Smith Stay Safe! BTW I am working out the issues for my 13b 250 hp rotary engine installation. here are some pics. Lightweight engine, and longer cowl make for a much better look. Kinda P-40ish. We may have to paint on some sharks teeth. :D -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299918#299918 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/craig_cowl_sv_transparent_784.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/craig_cowl_6_877.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 04, 2010
That thing looks and sounds great Craig! I'd love to keep up with your progress. I hear rotary engines are more efficient since the parts move continuously instead of stopping and reversing direction. How heavy are we talking? And is this an auto conversion? Fixed pitch or constant speed? Sorry I'm berating you with questions, but you've now tweaked my interest, and I can't stop thinking of the possibilities! -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299988#299988 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 04, 2010
super58d wrote: > That thing looks and sounds great Craig! I'd love to keep up with your progress. I hear rotary engines are more efficient since the parts move continuously instead of stopping and reversing direction. It's not better efficiency, but reliability, fewer moving parts, no valves, significantly higher TBO. BSFC is slightly higher by about 5%, but you can burn auto-gas, big savings. [/quote]How heavy are we talking?[/quote] With lightweight aluminum end housings, I'm figuring installed FWF of 275lbs. That's including rad, cooling and accessories. [/quote]And is this an auto conversion?[/quote] Yes. [/quote]Fixed pitch or constant speed?[/quote] One can go either route, but my plan is to go with a vari-prop constant speed unit to maximize performance and efficiency. Of course there is a lot more labor involved, as it is an auto conversion, and requires a lot of custom built stuff. But the results I believe will make up for the expended effort. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299993#299993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 05, 2010
I like the sounds of it. If you don't mind sharing, maybe you can post your progress so we can follow along with you. (I do pretty well as far as mechanical inclination goes, I'm just not very original) Do you have a website? -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300101#300101 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 06, 2010
My sporadic schedule (mostly dictated by cash flow) and the fact that my workshop is about 10 minutes from home, doesn't leave me much time to deal with documenting and posting. I have a tough enough time just getting out there. I'm finally getting back to work, after close to a year and a half off, due to the economic catastrophe. I don't have time to support a website either, however, if you want to learn more about the rotary and conversions go to: http://www.rotaryeng.net/ You can subscribe to the newsletter, but most of the basics is on the website. Read first, then ask questions thru the news letter. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300256#300256 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david van lanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith Aircraft Tools For Sale
Date: Jun 10, 2010
New Zenith builders: Here is a great opportunity to purchase most of the tools needed to build a Zenith aircraft at a discount. Everything is reduced 20% or more off the prices I paid. Tools were hardly used, as I sold my 601XL project after completing the tail and flight controls. I am looking to sell as a complete set. Purchase the complete set, and I will pay for shipping within the continental U.S. E-mail me offline for a detailed list of tools with photos: davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "david van lanen" <davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith Work Table For Sale
Date: Jun 10, 2010
High quality, perfectly flat work table for building a Zenith aircraft. Has adjustable legs, and built-in storage for clecos, rivets, tools and aircraft parts. Hardly used, (I sold my 601XL project early in the build). Will sell for half the cost of materials used to build. Can be partially or completely disassembled for transport. U pick up (Madison, Wisconsin). E-mail me offline for details and photos: davevanlanen(at)sbcglobal.net. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Skinning the Stab
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2010
the IPL implies that one should completely assemble and cleco the entire stab (nose and rear skins) then disassemble deburr etc. The photographs in the assembly CD imply that the rear skins are riveted (except spar) before fitting the nose skin. The only down side I see is there will be some difficulties deburring the spar rivet locations. Probably could gently lift the edge of the rear skin to get the top surface, but the back of the spar would be closed off. dunno if that matters too terribly much on as the rivet pretty much crushes any little flakes or aluminum snikkies. What have you guys done? -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302351#302351 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Skinning the Stab
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jun 24, 2010
Hi Craig, I drilled and clecoed the full assembly before doing any riveting (see attached picture). I noticed that many of the pictures on the CD are from the assembly of their prototype and show parts being riveted before they should be or installed in the wrong sequence. The pictures should only be used as a reference to understand how the parts fit together. The IPL gives you the correct sequence; and even then, you need to be sure to read ahead and use some personal judgment on the best sequence to build your plane. Good luck with your build. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 75%. Fuselage at 60%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302354#302354 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01660b_516.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2010
Subject: Re: Skinning the Stab
From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>
Craig, when I built the tail feathers for my 601 HD (still under construction), I did a complete assembly with clecoes and only then did the deburr/clean/prime dance. Personally, I think it is better to do it this way as you do all the priming in one session: I do it in the garage, where the car is the preferred tenant, so there is some prep work necessary before I do the priming. So, much better to do it once for the whole assembly. YMMV... Cheers Carlos CH601-HD, plans Rear fuse in progress On 24 June 2010 08:11, pilot4pay wrote: > pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> > > the IPL implies that one should completely assemble and cleco the entire > stab (nose and rear skins) then disassemble deburr etc. > The photographs in the assembly CD imply that the rear skins are riveted > (except spar) before fitting the nose skin. > The only down side I see is there will be some difficulties deburring the > spar rivet locations. Probably could gently lift the edge of the rear skin > to get the top surface, but the back of the spar would be closed off. dunno > if that matters too terribly much on as the rivet pretty much crushes any > little flakes or aluminum snikkies. > What have you guys done? > > -------- > Craig Smith > CH640 builder > SN: 0078 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Skinning the Stab
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Jun 28, 2010
Thanks, your reasoning makes sense. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302858#302858 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rear seat belt attachment clarification
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 26, 2010
Hi folks. I need a little clarification on the rear seat plans. From what I can tell, the rear seat is set up for lap belts only. So four seat belt attachment points are needed. The plans call for fabricating four F40-11 attachments, but only show where two are installed in the center of the seat. The rear seat IPL says that the other two F40-11 attachments are to be installed at the sides of the seat through the rear of the seat and the rear spar uprights, but this is obviously incorrect since the rear of the seat is behind the uprights. The plans also call for fabricating two F42-4 rear seat belt attachment plates which get riveted to the side skins. So what are the correct outside belt attachments to use? And what is the correct method to mount them? Am I supposed to go back into my aircraft design mode again to solve this? Thanks. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 75%. Fuselage at 60%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306348#306348 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Geese <doug_geese(at)fwmetals.com>
Date: Jul 27, 2010
Subject: Rear seat belt attachment clarification
Scott, The rear seats do in fact have 3 point attachment (shoulder belts). The upper attach point is a bracket that rivets between the turtledeck skin and the baggage bulkhead. I'm at Oshkosh right now so I can't be certain as to wear the outer lower attach points are. I believe that your are correct, the rear spar uprights are actually the front of the rear seat. When I get home I can take a closer look and send some pics if you would like. Doug -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith640-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Stewart Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:54 PM Subject: Zenith640-List: Rear seat belt attachment clarification Hi folks. I need a little clarification on the rear seat plans. From what I can tell, the rear seat is set up for lap belts only. So four seat belt attachment points are needed. The plans call for fabricating four F40-11 attachments, but only show where two are installed in the center of the seat. The rear seat IPL says that the other two F40-11 attachments are to be installed at the sides of the seat through the rear of the seat and the rear spar uprights, but this is obviously incorrect since the rear of the seat is behind the uprights. The plans also call for fabricating two F42-4 rear seat belt attachment plates which get riveted to the side skins. So what are the correct outside belt attachments to use? And what is the correct method to mount them? Am I supposed to go back into my aircraft design mode again to solve this? Thanks. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 75%. Fuselage at 60%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306348#306348 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear seat belt attachment clarification
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2010
I don't have the plans with me, but here are a few photos of how I did mine. There is a single bracket in the top center where both shoulder belts attach. Sorry about the large size, I can't change it on this computer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306536#306536 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage190_961.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuselage280_178.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rear seat belt attachment clarification
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Jul 28, 2010
Thanks Doug and Steve, I had forgotten about the upper attach point for the shoulder strap. I was focused on the lap belt attachment points and finishing the rear seat. Steve, from your picture I see that you have the four identical F40-11 seat attachment points as called out in the IPL. Apparently, the F42-4 outer seat belt attachment plates were added to the plans at a later date. I also wrote to Zenair, and Mathieu just wrote back that he will check the plans after Oshkosh. Thanks for everyone's help. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 85%. Fuselage at 70%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306602#306602 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Hey all, I recently received the CAD disk and brand new plans to go along with them. I was home on leave and only had time to browse through the plans, but I did note some areas they had highlighted for special attention to be paid to. I haven't noticed yet if any of the drawings have been updated in them. The disk works fine too. It seems to use Firefox (Internet Explorer if you use that I guess) as the medium for displaying all the photos and presentations. It doesn't go on the internet, all the info is on the disk. There are a TON of pics and quite a few .pdf docs that will come in very handy during the build. They did a decent job of breaking the info down into folders separating the major sections (rudder, stabilator, wings, fuselage, etc.). I would recommend spending the $150 to anyone who is less than halfway through the build. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308293#308293 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Skinning the Stab
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Craig, I had the same questions and took a middle of the road approach to the issue. I riveted about half way up the rear skins on both sides. This held the entire assembly together much better and helped keep it straight and true while drawing in the forward skins. It then still allowed me to lift the forward sections to debur the new holes from the nose skins. I found that ensuring the whole assembly stayed straight and true while keeping everything together was quite difficult while applying pressure to pull in the nose skins. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308294#308294 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Aug 10, 2010
Did you get any errors opening any files? What operating system are you using, and what version of Adobe acrobat reader are you running please? C. Smith -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=308304#308304 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 2011 the year of the Zenith
Date: Aug 12, 2010
Friends and fellow builders, I started this discussion on the Zenith Aircraft builders and flyers blog. Below is a copy of the post. I would appreciate it if I could get some input from everyone on this subject. I would love to see the 2011 EAA Convention in Oshkosh become the year of the Zenith! ------ Hope you all came home safely from Oshkosh! Another great year and once again, there are no other kits on the field I would rather build than a Zenith! Once again, by looking at the grass around the Zenith site in Oshkosh, the grass won't be growing there for a while! The Zenith tent had what I feel was an incredible turnout of walking traffic all week! With that said, I'm wondering where all the Zenith airplanes are during Oshkosh? I have an idea I would like to share with the group and please take the time to write a comment to this discussion so I can get an idea where I should go from here. I'm lucky enough to say I live just a few blocks from the Oshkosh airfield! I plan to have my 601 XL on the field next year, and I have an idea that I passed on to Sebastian - and he gave me his blessing. I'm looking to see if there is enough interest among the builders to make Oshkosh 2011 the year of the Zenith! Seeing that I live in Oshkosh, I know almost everyone in management at the EAA, I work with the Oshkosh media, I know where all the great eating and catering places are in Oshkosh, I would like to volunteer to put a program together to make 2011 our year at EAA. I can imagine many things, but I would like to get a discussion going to see what you would like to see Zenith do in Oshkosh. It's easy to get a plot of parking spaces similar to the RV parking near the homebuilt kit display. Is there 25 or more aircraft we could count on to come to Oshkosh? If the answer is yes, we can all park together on the field. I can set up group accommodations at the university, or group camping on the field, or group camping where we park the planes. Let's get Chris to Oshkosh and honor him with the recognition he deserves. Would you like to build a kit on the field? Group cookouts? Maybe a larger place to meet for dinner just for 2011? Any or all of the above things would be covered with major press releases. Not only would we all have a blast, but it would solidify the Zenith brand and make the company stronger in the eyes of EAA members and the press. So I guess to start the discussion, do you think we could get a minimum of 25 Zenith aircraft to attend Oshkosh 2011? We have 3 here already. Then after the initial commitment, we can work on housing, etc. So what do you think? Please give me your opinion. Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe" <backstagelive(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Oshkosh 2011 - The Year of the Zodiac
Date: Sep 10, 2010
Hi Everyone, I was delighted with the response I received from builders who would like to bring their Zeniths to Oshkosh for 2011. I received 18 replies from pilots who would like to come to Oshkosh next year if we put up some sort of formal event. So it looks like we will proceed! I even received 2 e-mails from builders who would like to help, and one in Kenosha who would like to coordinate a place to assemble before the convention for those who would like to fly in formation to Oshkosh! So here we go! I am meeting with Tom Poberezny on Thursday, September 16th at 10:00 AM do discuss the possibility of having EAA help host our Zodiac family. On my list of discussion points will be having a place on the field where we can ALL park together similar to the RV's of today and the Long-eze's of yesterday. We also would like EAA to give us press release space in the magazine. I will also ask EAA to honor Chris and the family at next year's convention. Please help me by thinking about this and posting ideas that I should take along to my meeting with Tom. Once EAA agrees to a suitable parking arrangement, we can go on with step 3, providing a place for everyone to stay in both the campgrounds and at the University, provide transportation, publicity, etc. Please help me by posting your ideas. We sure can have a lot of fun with this! Joe in Oshkosh ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: stabilator trim tab fork cut-out
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Oct 04, 2010
The drawing for the stab trim tab fork shows a semicircular cut out for "something". The reference is part 2. Can anyone tell me which part I need to reference the fork to in order to make the cut out in the proper location? Thanks. Bye the way, I'm posting construction photos to the Zenith aircraft builders and fliers website is anyone is interested. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314633#314633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stabilator trim tab fork cut-out
From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2010
Here is a photo. The cutout is for the curved trim piece in front of the rudder. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315417#315417 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trim_tab_fork_211.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stabilator trim tab fork cut-out
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Oct 12, 2010
Thanks Steve. Nice photo. I'll leave it alone till I do final assy. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315423#315423 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Empenage-Rudder-Wings-CenterWeb Fuselage to sold for CH640
From: "Christian Tremblay" <cj.tremblay(at)videotron.ca>
Date: Oct 13, 2010
Hi group, Long time no see... ! :P After 3 years of intensive building times, I want to sold my project. Divorce and a recent buying of a Beachcraft Sierra Retractable (1974-200hp-tri blades v. prop. 4 + 2 places) explain my silence on the forum, and my decision. I also look for another project like an RV7A or Mustang II for more pilot challenged (aerobatic flight). I had no doubt about the CH640 for his category purpose and acheivement. The Beach and RV7 are other type of machines. THE CH640 - TO SOLD : Rudder, Tail wing, Right Wing and Center Web spar are completed at 100%. All piece are completed primed (with gun spray) with epoxy primer Dupond. Wing tanks are extended range (23 US gal) buy from Zenith. All pieces are fabricated for the Left Wing - Spars, Ribs, gussets, bell crank, stiffeners and so on. Left Flap and left Aileron are assembled and primed. Wings spars are reamed and ready to attach to the Center Web Spar. Only missing left wing cover skins. All bolts, nuts & rivets are includes, inventory and classified in plastics box. Project include completes inventory of pieces on excell files with more than 300 detailled High Resolution photos. Many documents are printed and assembly in binders. I sell the project at a lower cost than I pay for all pieces and material. This is an excellent opportunity to speed up your project at a lower cost. For serious buyed I am ready to send you a CD. Pieces completed are opened, fixed on cleco ready for USA or CDN Inspection. Arragement could be done for delivery. I joined somes photographies with this post email. See you Christian Tremblay cell. (514) 318-9470 SN: CH640-00059 -------- Christian Tremblay - Montreal, Qc A guy who build a CH640 from plan - SN0059 www.zodiac640.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315555#315555 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_skin_assbl_39_143.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_light_instl_4_132.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_tip_11_191.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_spar_assbl_9_659.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Empenage-Rudder-Wings-CenterWeb Fuselage to sold for
CH640
From: "Scott Stewart" <scott_stewart(at)agilent.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2010
Hi Christian, It's going to be sad to see you move away from the ranks of CH-640 builders. You have been a source of good information for many of us! Best of luck on your next adventure. -------- Scott Stewart s/n: 0092 Building from plans Rudder and Stabilator complete. Wings at 85%. Fuselage at 70%. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315709#315709 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: PLEASE READ - List Fund Raiser Kickoff!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages including: * Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com * Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com * Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search * Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include: * Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com * Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com * Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator RV-8 Builder and Flyer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November List Fund Raiser
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, they will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site such as this one. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Coming Soon - The List of Contributors - Please Make A
Contribution Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Please take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)! As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least as valuable a building / entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution...
Dear Listers, A quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a big difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------------------------------------------- You are providing a great service. Thanks so very much. David L Keep up the good work! A great website - wish I'd found it earlier! Bob S Thanks for providing a site for information. Jim S Thanks again for providing a great service to our community! Alex M Thanks and keep up the good work! Robert B. Great forum! David S Thanks for providing the Kolb List for the last 12 years. John H Long time lurker, it's a great resource...many thanks. Ian C Your work and effort are greatly appreciated. Nicolas L Thank you very much for keeping the list going! Svein J Thank you for your support to the community. Valin T I am a long time subscriber and a slow builder because of work and two moves, but still enjoy the process and your list. CL M Thanks for providing this service. It can't be beat! Thomas W I'm no longer a builder or flier but I like to keep in touch with the List - which is the best organised list I've seen on the Internet. Gerry C Matt, you are doing a GREAT service to the community of KOLB Builders and Flyers. John B I've been flying for almost two years and still find these Lists as a great resource for information.....now I get to answer a question once-in-a-while too. Ralph C Thanks for this great service. Dale E I couldn't keep on building without the support I get from this List. Thomas S This is a great service to all of us. Michael W I am no longer actively building, but I really like to keep up with what's going on, and I especially like to follow Bob Nuckolls - and your RV-8. Terrence W I really appreciate your work and consider the lists to be a great value. Christopher R Thanks Matt for a great resource! Geoff T Many thanks for providing this service. I love it. William V One of the best Internet Deals going... Owen B Thanks for the great site. Danny S A valuable resource. George A Thanks for running a great list. Ted P ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser. Response has been good so far, but we're well behind last year at this point. If you've been waiting until the last minute to make your Contribution, now might be good time to show your support and maybe pick up a nice gift as well! Please remember that there is no commercial advertising on these Lists and the *only* means of keeping them running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. If it weren't for your individual Contributions, these Lists could easily become economically infeasible and simply cease to exist. You probably can't even take the family out to dinner for $20 these days, but your individual Contribution of the same amount makes a huge difference in keeping the List services alive. Please make a Contribution today with a Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 17%...
Dear Listers, As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 17%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for the many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Dear Listers, Curiously, even though the number of List subscriptions are significantly up this year, support during this year's Fund Raiser is still substantially behind last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching. I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income might be required including some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal Contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation a float. Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Three Days Left & Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, There are just three days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. Won't you take a monment and make a quick Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these Forum services. I've received some more really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions, and I've share a few below. There are some sweet gifts available this year, so browse the selections and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ------------------------------------------------------- Great resource, keep it coming... Marten V. Thanks for maintaining these essential lists! Rumen D. Great Service! Douglas D. Thanks for this great service! Peter T. Thanks for your enduring support of homebuilding communications! Daniel M. You do a great job and provide a valuable service. Mark B. It's really a great source I have used a lot. Robert K. Reading the RV-10 list is part of my morning routine... Perry C. Great job running these lists. Edward T. Thanks for doing a tough job. Mic T. Your List was such a great resource for me when I built in "98". Ron V. Its a very useful forum. Dave F. Really enjoy your list... William D. Great service, Gerald T. The list still is a valuable source of information and there are many worthwhile postings. Graham H. The list has seen me through an RV-9A, RV-10, and now an RV-12. Albert G. Thanks for a great resource! Barry H. Thank you for maintaining this excellent site. Bill W. The Matronics Email list are an invaluable service. William C. I appreciate the RV-10 list. Vijay P. Thanks for a great list and all of the work you do. Ian W. Thanks for keeping up this very useful list. George R. The list is excellent and I find it very handy for any problems I come up against during construction. Greg W. The lists are an important part of my day. I've met lots of people and made lots of friends. Dave S. It's really a great source I haved used a lot. Robert K. I read the Pietenpol List everyday. PF B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed!
Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner with just two more days in this year's Fund Raiser! Later in December I will post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists this year. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its my 47th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been drooling over one of the really nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Hey Craig, Sorry for the long span in between replies. We had a lot going on there at the end of our deployment and a family emergency didn't help either. But, I'm finally back home and building again. Yay!! Anyway, I'm running Adobe reader 9 and Windows Vista Home Premium. I haven't had any trouble opening the photos on the disk. Some are standard JPEG images while others are put together into the pdfs as you know. There are a lot of very useful new photos. Just last night I was using them to reference the wing bellcrank assembly. (the directions weren't crystal clear) Whoever took the pics did a good job because they address all the right areas where questions might arise. I included as an attachment one of the smaller pdf files for the back seat/ luggage compartment so you can see if it opens on your computer. Hope this helps. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322729#322729 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rear_seat_installation_159.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "pilot4pay" <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Thanks for getting back with us. The pdf opened fine for me, What kinds of CAD drawings are in the disc? I'll probably purchase the disc after I get my truck sold. By the way, I've been posting lots of pics to the Zenith builders and flyers club, they now even have a 640 group. Sorry to hear about your tribulations, hope things have settled down for you. Have a wonderful Christmas, and we all thank you for your service to our country. -------- Craig Smith CH640 builder SN: 0078 "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322755#322755 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD disk and new Photos
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Well, I looked pretty thoroughly and haven't found any CAD drawings on the disk yet. There are a lot of JPEG pics, .pdf files with pics and links to an explorer (or firefox, that's what I use) type browser that links all the photos through a menu tree of sorts. They did send a whole new set of drawings though. I haven't compared page by page with the ones I already had, but they look pretty much the same to me. If there's a difference between the two I haven't found them yet. The new photos are certain worth paying for, but if they charged that much money for a few photos and a new bundle of papers, that seems a bit excessive. I haven't had the time to look further into it yet, so I've been trying to be blissfully ignorant and not worry about it. -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322786#322786 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flap ribs
From: "super58d" <smarkburrows(at)gmail.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2010
Ok, so I'm a bit lost on the wing flap ribs and their placement. I sorted them all out using the plans, but think I was sent too many of one side and not enough of the other. I was wondering if it matters which way the inside flap ribs face. The outside ones (ribs 1 and 7) on both side are opposite each other and look ok. The inside ones however all point one way on the left flap. On the right flap most of them point the same way as the left flap with the exception of one, it faces the other way. I took a square and made sure I had the 90 degree angle on top so the angled portion is on the bottom as they lie on the bench. I included a pic to show how I have them laid out. Anyone know how these are supposed to be installed within the skins? -------- Mark s/n 094 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322791#322791 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/flap_rib_placement_102.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2010 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running. You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator

April 26, 2008 - December 30, 2010

Zenith640-Archive.digest.vol-aa