AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ag
June 26, 2001 - July 30, 2001
When I was shopping for crimpers, the local store had a sale on the
Sargent. I tried it out, it has a very nice fine ratchet. But they didn't
have many dies for it - they were closing it out. Instead, I bought an "Ideal"
ratchet crimper, which cost about as much, but the ratchet wasn't as fine.
However, they had a boatload of dies for the Ideal.
The ratchet makes these tools pretty idiot-proof, hence the lack of
instructions. The one thing you have to remember is that there are two
sides to the die. The side with the relief cut in the curve is where the
wire comes out. The other side, without the relief, is what I call "the
business end" - this is where the real crimp happens.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Daniels Wire Crimper |
I got a nice message back from DMC tools saying that the HX3 and HX4
crimpers were NOT satisfactory for wire gauges larger than 10. They
suggested a hydraulic crimper which they manufacture for the larger size wires.
Thanks
Bob Steward
Birmingham, AL
>By replacing the dies, you can crimp many different types of
>connectors. I have ordered a catalog on-line to find out what selection
>is available.
>
> > >I have a Daniels Mfg. Co. HX4 M22520/5-01 crimper (with M22520/5-100
> dies for 10-26 gauge crimps), http://www.dmctools.com/dmctools/open-frame.html.
>
>Is this tool suitable for crimping large wire gauges (4, 6, 8?) with the
>correct dies? Or is there another recommended tool for doing these larger
>sizes?
>Bob Steward
>Birmingham, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
Subject: | Battery Corrosion |
Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery
corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6.
I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally
since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat
for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I
recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of
white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the
battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot
bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I
could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it
should.
Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the
negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm
pivot bolt and batter box.
My question is this.
1. Why would this start up after about 4 years.
2. How can I prevent it from occurring?
Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems?
(It starts the bike fine)
Does moisture have anything to do with it?
Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Plainfield, IL
RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
In all my experience with batteries on cars, motorcycles and lawn
tractors, all the major corrosion and "fungus" has occured at the POS
terminal, with very little at the NEG terminal. My airplane is clean as
a whistle. Could there be a leak around the NEG baterry post? did you
have to whack/hammer it to get the wire connector on? See what happens
if you lightly coat the NEG terminal and wire connector with some high
temp grease (to keep it from running all over the place, as does
petrolatum, when it gets hot).
Boyd.
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
>
> Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery
> corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6.
>
> I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally
> since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat
> for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I
> recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of
> white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the
> battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot
> bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I
> could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it
> should.
>
> Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the
> negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm
> pivot bolt and batter box.
>
> My question is this.
>
> 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years.
> 2. How can I prevent it from occurring?
>
> Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems?
> (It starts the bike fine)
>
> Does moisture have anything to do with it?
>
> Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Plainfield, IL
> RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
>
> Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the
> negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm
> pivot bolt and batter box.
>
> My question is this.
>
> 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years.
> 2. How can I prevent it from occurring?
>
> Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems?
*** I've seen this before. I think that the battery's seals get weak where
the posts come out. Cure is probably a new battery.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
>
>Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery
>corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6.
>
>I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally
>since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat
>for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I
>recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of
>white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the
>battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot
>bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I
>could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it
>should.
>
>Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the
>negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm
>pivot bolt and batter box.
>
>My question is this.
>
>1. Why would this start up after about 4 years.
4 years on one battery? For an airplane, this is at least
2 years too long. Also, is it an RG (sealed, zero slosh,
zero maintenance) battery?
>2. How can I prevent it from occurring?
If it's a flooded battery, replace it more often. It's
capacity is by now a fraction of what it was when new.
Consider a sealed, RG battery like you plan to use
on your airplane. I've seen a few of these get messy around
the terminals in their old age . . . but much less often
than with a flooded battery.
>Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems?
>(It starts the bike fine)
>
>Does moisture have anything to do with it?
It's probably loss of seal around the battery post where
it emerges from the battery. Metal posts and plastic
battery cases are not exactly made for each other in terms
of establishing and maintaining a gas-tight seal around
the post. I think it's mostly aging of the plastic
(motorcycle batteries are generally not leading edge
examples of the best we know how to do in battery
technology).
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Daniels Wire Crimper |
>
>> I have experimented on a few terminals. The result is not readily
>> visible, so how to I know I have the wire properly crimped and the strain
>> relief properly done?
>
>*** Light Plane Maintenance had a really good article on crimpers and
>terminals a year or so ago. They made up a test jig with a crank and an
>inline scale, the kind you might use for weighing fish.
>
> Basically, they were looking for pullout strength. The bigger numbers
>they got on the scale, the better. They were also happy if the wire broke
>in two, rather than pulling out at the crimp.
Crimp a red terminal on a 22AWG wire and hang one gallon milk-jug
of water on it, use 16AWG and blue terminal with two jugs, and
12AWG with yellow terminal and three jugs.
> The very best crimps were done by a $300 AMP tool. The second best, as I
>remember, were a $70 tool made by Sargent. All of the "good" tools they
>reviewed were ratchet tools with removable dies. They also reviewed one
>general purpose "electrician" tool. It sucked, but they were able to get
>good crimps with decent connectors. With the combination of a cheap tool,
>and cheap connectors, they were unable to get a good crimp :).
>
> It also mattered which brand and type of connector was used. AMP came out
>on top, again... I don't remember any of the also-rans, I buy AMP.
The PIDG style terminals from AMP are interchangeable with the
same styles (metal lined insulation grips) from other major brands.
We sell AMP PIDG from my website . . . we've had Waldom/Molex Avicrimps
from time to time but rarely.
> When I was shopping for crimpers, the local store had a sale on the
>Sargent. I tried it out, it has a very nice fine ratchet. But they didn't
>have many dies for it - they were closing it out. Instead, I bought an "Ideal"
>ratchet crimper, which cost about as much, but the ratchet wasn't as fine.
>However, they had a boatload of dies for the Ideal.
I looked into interchangeable dies for the tools we sell . . .
in low quantities, it was about as economical to just sell
a whole tool for each task. You only need three or four
anyhow for a total of about $150 . . . and then you don't have
to take a screwdriver to the tool to change tasks and you don't
misplace loose dies. I had a tool with a whole set of dies
a few years back that I put into a garage sale . . . liked the
single-tool-per-task approach much better.
> The ratchet makes these tools pretty idiot-proof, hence the lack of
>instructions. The one thing you have to remember is that there are two
>sides to the die. The side with the relief cut in the curve is where the
>wire comes out. The other side, without the relief, is what I call "the
>business end" - this is where the real crimp happens.
Depending on the tool, the crimp height may not be different
for the wire and insulation grips. The $40 PIDG tool we sell
is symmetrical so it doesn't matter which side of the tool
gets the wire grip. Instructions for proper use SHOULD come
with each tool if it's not obvious.
Do the 8/16/24 pound pull tests on your experimental terminals.
If the wires don't pull out, the tool is probably fine for the
task. If you want to send me terminals applied with the tool,
I can have them pull tested at the shop to see how they compare
with our bizillion dollar tools . . . but even if there are
differences, they'll be small. Test them yourself and truck on . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Hi Bob,
>Changed the wires around on the mic jacks and hooked up the radio correctly,
>per your 403mc drawing, and everything checks out. Didn't have another radio
>around but I do get a transmit light and side tone with the PTT. A word of
>caution, make sure the volume and squelch controls on the intercom are all
>the way down when you turn the battery switch on the first time. If not the
>noise will blast your ear drums. Ask me how I know! Thank you for all the
>help on this puppy.
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
My pleasure sir . . .
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re:TNC connectors |
>
>>
>> Bob:
>>
>> My GPS antenna requires a TNC connector. Could you recommend a mfg. and part
>> no. for RG-400 coax. Also the GPS requires an altitude input D4 from the
>> encoder but my encoder only supplies A1 thru C4. Would you please comment on
>> this?
>
>*** Well, I can't address the TNC connector, but the D4 wire... ....is for
>higher altitudes. One extra wire doubles the # of altitudes for a normal
>binary code, not sure what it does for Gray code. You can leave this D4
>input unconnected, or maybe pull it high - although I think the standard is
>for inputs to have their own pullup resistors.
I think Jerry is correct on this . . . you only need the
D4 connection for flight in very rarified air . . . like
30K feet or more . . . don't think any single engine prop
jobs ever get high enough to need it. The altitude versus
data table at:
http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
Suggests that D4 goes high for altitudes above 30,700 so I
think I'd try grounding the unused D4 pin.
If you're interested in an explanation of the gray code
and data on how the code relates to altitude, see:
http://www.airsport-corp.com/modec.htm
The TNC connector is available from Newark. See:
http://www.newark.com/C118_modules/8203.html
I think you need the 40F6331 which you can order
at:
http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=40F6331
I think the crimp tool we sell for installing
the BNC connectors will also install this
connector.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <glassman(at)tns.net> |
Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net
I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
ideas?
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com> |
lower the voltage
LM317 is the part, an adjustable voltage regulator
why do you want it slower? What you want to do with a electric trim is move
it in bumps - press-release not press-and-hold
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob W
M Shipley
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Servo supply.
Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net
I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
ideas?
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re:TNC connectors |
> >
> >*** Well, I can't address the TNC connector, but the D4 wire... ....is for
> >higher altitudes. One extra wire doubles the # of altitudes for a normal
> >binary code, not sure what it does for Gray code. You can leave this D4
> >input unconnected, or maybe pull it high - although I think the standard is
> >for inputs to have their own pullup resistors.
>
>
> I think Jerry is correct on this . . . you only need the
> D4 connection for flight in very rarified air . . . like
> 30K feet or more . . . don't think any single engine prop
> jobs ever get high enough to need it. The altitude versus
> data table at:
>
> http://www.airsport-corp.com/modecascii.txt
>
> Suggests that D4 goes high for altitudes above 30,700 so I
> think I'd try grounding the unused D4 pin.
*** No, don't ground it! The altitude bus is inverted logic. "1" means
pulled to ground, "0" is let-it-float. There's a reason for this:
The encoder bus is an "open collector" bus. The encoder pulls desired
lines low, and all the bus listeners are isolated from it with diodes. So,
for each input of each item ( say, you have a transponder AND a GPS AND a
display of some sort hooked up to the altitude bus ), it's diode lets the
encoder suck current out of that particular input. But if you turn off your
transponder, GPS, or display, the "input" of that item is not able to suck
current out of the node, causing a false altitude readout.
The reason busses like this are usually low=1 is that traditional TTL logic
is much better at pulling things low than at pulling things high. A typical
gate output can sink 5 or ten milliamps to make its output low; it can only
source a fraction of a milliamp to make its output high. And the "open
collector" gates that are used for these sorts of things are incapable of
sourcing any current at all!
>
> If you're interested in an explanation of the gray code
> and data on how the code relates to altitude, see:
>
*** Wow, GREAT url, Bob!
- Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
>
>Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net
>
>I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
>on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
>there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
>ideas?
>
>Rob.
Sure. Our little half amp dimmers have been used for
this purpose. Instead of adjusting voltage to a light bulb,
you can set the voltage to a more desirable, lower voltage
with the dimmer. You can see the dimmer product at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/lighting.html#dim5-14
You can download instructions for installing the dimmer
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/9013_ins.pdf
This document also illustrates the wiring diagram for
the dimmer which you can use as a guide for fabricating
your own voltage adjustment device . . . the parts needed
to do this are available at Radio Shack.
If you wanted a really compact assembly, the little DIM5-14
assembly can be fitted with a potentiometer right on the
board and eliminate the outboard potentiometer used as
the panel control for dimming.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>lower the voltage
>
>LM317 is the part, an adjustable voltage regulator
>
>why do you want it slower? What you want to do with a electric trim is move
>it in bumps - press-release not press-and-hold
Many airplanes suffer from poor trim speed selection
over the full range of the airspeeds. Designers
have little choice when it comes to off-the-shelf
actuators to operate trim systems and they seldom
take the time to optimize the mechanical gain between
the selected trim actuator and the trim tab . . .
It's not uncommon for builders to find that the
trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately
trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed
trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that
allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases
but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during
cruise. Pilots loved it.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: BNC bulkhead connectors |
Bob,
What is the appropriate BNC connector to use in a transponder rack? I've been
eyeballing bulkhead BNC connectors a while now, and I haven't seen one that
looked like it would work.
Keith
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ENewton57(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
In a message dated 6/26/01 10:38:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
glassman(at)tns.net writes:
<< I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
ideas? >>
The people that produce the MAC servo make a speed servo for the product.
Check them out at:
http://www.menzimeraircraft.com/
Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
RV-6A N57ME (Reserved) (Engine Baffles)
http://www.ericsrv6a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com> |
Bob,
snip
It's not uncommon for builders to find that the
trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately
trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed
trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that
allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases
but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during
cruise. Pilots loved it.
snip
So your the one!
As I recall the early Lear's (23) had very fast single speed trim - hence
the bump method of trim adjustment. Also some fatal accidents from run away
trim. Then the slowed down multy speed comes in as the fix for that. Have I
got that right?
Ronin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
In a message dated 6/27/01 7:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< Many airplanes suffer from poor trim speed selection
over the full range of the airspeeds. >>
I have wired a MAC speed control in parallel with direct 12 volt power to the
MAC trim servo. Hi/Lo rate selection in made by toggle switch on MAC stick
grip next to trim control button. I'll adjust the low rate one I have tested
the effect. Have not flown it yet to report actual results but have a MAC
trim servo on another homebuilt I did a few years ago and believe this set up
will help.
Dale Ensing
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
Matte Draille also sells a speed adjustable servo thru Matronics, called
" The Govenor" it also has relays for multiple switches
(pilot/co-pilot). Van's also sells it int heit catalog.
Boyd
ENewton57(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/26/01 10:38:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
> glassman(at)tns.net writes:
>
> << I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
> on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
> there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
> ideas? >>
>
> The people that produce the MAC servo make a speed servo for the product.
> Check them out at:
> http://www.menzimeraircraft.com/
>
> Eric Newton - Long Beach, Mississippi
> R
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Joel Harding <dsl10driver(at)ev1.net> |
Bob,
My plans show a local ground for the rear battery placement, but your manual
discusses running the 2awg ground wire back to the ground block on the
firewall. Was that for glass airplanes only or does it also apply to metal
planes, and if so why?
Thanks,
Joel Harding
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: More music in intercom questions |
Here's a lower cost solution...
www.boostaroo.com
Vlad's Audio Unit is $119, the Boostaroo is $20, 20-20k +/1 2 db, high s/n
ratio. I just ordered one for me and another for my buddy and will put a
review on my web site once I've run it through the paces.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
> Currently this product we offered for sale, and we are sorry, but
> we could not provide any schematic. With unit we will provide
> connection diagram.
> Just buy product and fly! Do you want to resale products?
>
> We have more in our product line:
> - Anticollision Light Unit;
> - Audio Unit;
> - Servo Control Unit (will control two RC servo, mainly used for
> aerodynamical timers and other actuated applications);
> - Fuel Measurement and Warning unit;
> ...
> Please visit our site with UNET(tm) technologies:
> http://www.unet.umbtech.com
>
> Vlad
>
> > > Same problem I have with Garmin 340 audio panel and a few others.
> > > There is no way to increase signal level inside audio unit, so I
developed
> > > amplifier. If you interested, drop me a note, I have PC board, and
> > > I could make them in small batches.
> > > Amplification could be adjust by an voltage control. Been air tested
> > > for 8 month. Simple to install/add to existing wiring.
> > > Vlad
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I was able to wire up a music input to a PS eng. intercom. I would
like
> > > >to use my MP3 player headphone jack - problem is the signal strength
is
> > > >low. Is there a way to amplify the signal?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Haywire" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
Hi Rob;
I plan to use this switch to control my flaps.
2-speed elevator trim
Herga pressure switch--Newark Electronics stock
No.46WX771 ( or Farnell part No. 731912 ). (Farnell was bought out by
Newark.) 1999 price was $33
It is plumbed to your pitot tube and will give full speed trim control
at
low speed (below 110 ??) and half speed trim control at higher speeds. I had
a short flight in an RV-6 that was equipped with this and it worked well.
The builder (Ted French) also had a control board for his flaps that was
tied in with this switch to adjust trim automatically when flaps were
applied. Worked very well. He is building another 6a and has the schematic
diagram for this on his web site.
http://www3.telus.net/elfrench/aircraft.html
Todd Bartrim
13B RV-9
Fuselage (arrives tomorrow..... pleeeaaase)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob W
> M Shipley
> Sent: June 26, 2001 8:35 PM
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Servo supply.
>
>
>
>
> Rob W M Shipley. glassman(at)tns.net
>
> I need to reduce the speed at which my MAC servo adjust the aileron trim
> on my RV9 elevator. 9 volts looks about right and I was wondering if
> there is a simple solid state package that could supply this. Any
> ideas?
>
> Rob.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Mokry <robmokry(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Re: More music in intercom questions |
Randy, Let us know what you find out-The company might need a bit of help with
marketing?
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> Here's a lower cost solution...
> www.boostaroo.com
> Vlad's Audio Unit is $119, the Boostaroo is $20, 20-20k +/1 2 db, high s/n
> ratio. I just ordered one for me and another for my buddy and will put a
> review on my web site once I've run it through the paces.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv-8.com
>
> > Currently this product we offered for sale, and we are sorry, but
> > we could not provide any schematic. With unit we will provide
> > connection diagram.
> > Just buy product and fly! Do you want to resale products?
> >
> > We have more in our product line:
> > - Anticollision Light Unit;
> > - Audio Unit;
> > - Servo Control Unit (will control two RC servo, mainly used for
> > aerodynamical timers and other actuated applications);
> > - Fuel Measurement and Warning unit;
> > ...
> > Please visit our site with UNET(tm) technologies:
> > http://www.unet.umbtech.com
> >
> > Vlad
> >
> > > > Same problem I have with Garmin 340 audio panel and a few others.
> > > > There is no way to increase signal level inside audio unit, so I
> developed
> > > > amplifier. If you interested, drop me a note, I have PC board, and
> > > > I could make them in small batches.
> > > > Amplification could be adjust by an voltage control. Been air tested
> > > > for 8 month. Simple to install/add to existing wiring.
> > > > Vlad
> > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > >I was able to wire up a music input to a PS eng. intercom. I would
> like
> > > > >to use my MP3 player headphone jack - problem is the signal strength
> is
> > > > >low. Is there a way to amplify the signal?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Moody" <moodyj(at)melbpc.org.au> |
Subject: | Mic PTT Grounding |
Bob
The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at
the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory?
regards
John Moody
Melbourne, Australia
Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mic PTT Grounding |
John,
I have the PM1000 also. The mic jack is grounded using the intercom ground
system via a ground wire and the PTT switches use that ground also. My
PM1000 is hooked into a wiring harnes that shares the ground with the radio
and transponder and the ground is attached to the ground block on the
firewall. Your jacks will need some inserts to insulate them from the
panel. B&C carries them. You don't want the jacks to ground at the panel
unless you like squealing in the headset.
G'day
Jerry Calvert
RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: John Moody <moodyj(at)melbpc.org.au>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mic PTT Grounding
>
> Bob
>
> The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at
> the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory?
>
> regards
>
> John Moody
> Melbourne, Australia
> Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RE:Dorne & Margolin Ant. |
I have a Dorne & Margolin ant. that I bought about 15 years ago and don't
remember what it was for. D & M doesn't appear to be in business anymore.
Does anyone know what happened to them? The ant. is a DM Q-18-3. Does anyone
know what it is for?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim and Lucy <jpollard(at)mnsi.net> |
Subject: | Re: RE:Dorne & Margolin Ant. |
>
>I have a Dorne & Margolin ant. that I bought about 15 years ago and don't
>remember what it was for. D & M doesn't appear to be in business anymore.
>Does anyone know what happened to them? The ant. is a DM Q-18-3. Does anyone
>know what it is for?
>
>Steve
You have an elt antenna
Specs on this webpage
http://www.edmo.com/s1/s1-51.asp
DM Q18-3121.5 & 243.0 MHz
Improved stronger version of the DM Q18-1/A, however it has a different
mounting hole pattern. Recommended for new and retrofit installations.
Connector: BNC Female
400 mph rated
VSWR: 2.0:1 @ 243.0 MHz 2.5:1 @ 121.5 MHz
WEIGHT: 12 oz. HEIGHT: 13.0"
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
ch601hds
ea81
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | RE: Trim speed control history |
>
>Bob,
>
>snip
>
> It's not uncommon for builders to find that the
> trim system is too fast in cruising speed to accurately
> trim the airplane. I designed the first multi-speed
> trim system for the Lears about 20 years ago that
> allowed full speed ops in the approach/departure phases
> but slowed it down by about a factor of 4 during
> cruise. Pilots loved it.
>
>
>snip
>
> So your the one!
>
> As I recall the early Lear's (23) had very fast single speed trim - hence
>the bump method of trim adjustment. Also some fatal accidents from run away
>trim. Then the slowed down multy speed comes in as the fix for that. Have I
>got that right?
>
>Ronin
I don't recall that I ever got to do anything for the 20's series
machines. The program got started as a whippy new feature slated
for the new Lear 55. We KNEW that the original trim system design
had to run full motor current the length of the airplane 4 times
and had voltage drop problems during upset loads. The later airplanes
were certified with trim systems so slow (to meet runaway recovery
requirements at Mach cruise) that you had to start trimming 10 miles
out from landing to get the airplane into a landing configuration.
Just weeks after winning certification of the two speed system on
the yet to be produced 55, an airworthiness directive came out against
the 30 series aircraft when they discovered the loss of trim effort
due to voltage drop during upset recovery. We began an immediate
effort to apply what we'd learned on the 55's to the 30 series
ships. That program was a retrofit to the FLEET! Made my
boss so happy he gave me a 30% raise in pay!
I think most of the accidents originally hung on trim runaways
turned out to be problems surrounding the "go fast switch" . . .
Seems that some pilots were willing to shut off the Mach warning
horn and bump the throttles up into coffin-corner . . . you
gotta be quick to keep from dying if the airplane pitches down
for any reason . . . lots of pilots weren't fast enough.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Mic PTT Grounding |
>
>Bob
>
>The wiring diagram for my PM1000 intercom has the PTT switches grounded at
>the mic jacks. Is this required or will remote grounds be satisfactory?
>
>regards
>
>John Moody
>Melbourne, Australia
>Kitfox 5/ Rotax 912S
remote grounds will probably work . . . I like to return
them to the mic jack . . . the rule of thumb for reducing
the ability of a wire to be a victim of noise is to have
every outbound electron in close proximity to the inbound
electrons and all ground returned to the connector of the
appliance. That's why I draw the headset, microphone
and PTT leads the way you see them in our Microair 760VHF
installation drawings.
You can try anything you want and if it works,
then it's okay. I KNOW that the wiring I suggest is
always okay.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob,
>My plans show a local ground for the rear battery placement, but your manual
>discusses running the 2awg ground wire back to the ground block on the
>firewall. Was that for glass airplanes only or does it also apply to metal
>planes, and if so why?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joel Harding
If your battery is close to the engine, then 4AWG
wire is fine and the battery (-) lead should go to
the ground block stud. If the battery is behind the
seats in a metal airplane, it's usually okay to ground
locally . . use 2AWG to bring + forward. If it's
a plastic airplane and the battery is on opposite end
of airplane from engine, you need 2AWG both pathways.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: BNC bulkhead connectors |
>
>Bob,
>
>What is the appropriate BNC connector to use in a transponder rack? I've been
>eyeballing bulkhead BNC connectors a while now, and I haven't seen one that
>looked like it would work.
>
>Keith
If you're talking about a connector that is captive to the
tray such that the transponder automatically engages the
antenna connection, you're looking for a special connector
that may be unique to the particular transponder.
Do you have the installation manual for your transponder . . .
or can you get a peek at a book in the library of a local
avionics shop?
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Gray-Code logic levels for encoders |
>
>*** No, don't ground it! The altitude bus is inverted logic. "1" means
>pulled to ground, "0" is let-it-float. There's a reason for this:
>
> The encoder bus is an "open collector" bus. The encoder pulls desired
>lines low, and all the bus listeners are isolated from it with diodes. So,
>for each input of each item ( say, you have a transponder AND a GPS AND a
>display of some sort hooked up to the altitude bus ), it's diode lets the
>encoder suck current out of that particular input. But if you turn off your
>transponder, GPS, or display, the "input" of that item is not able to suck
>current out of the node, causing a false altitude readout.
>
> The reason busses like this are usually low=1 is that traditional TTL logic
>is much better at pulling things low than at pulling things high. A typical
>gate output can sink 5 or ten milliamps to make its output low; it can only
>source a fraction of a milliamp to make its output high. And the "open
>collector" gates that are used for these sorts of things are incapable of
>sourcing any current at all!
I knew that . . . thanks for reminding me. I recall thrashing
through that architecture on program at Mooney a couple of decades
ago.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics book? |
>
>Hello,
>
> I'm looking for some sort of book that would describe the electronics
>used in small planes. Best would be at a "technician" level, e.g. for
>someone who is already in electronics - not to waste my time and paper
>trying to teach the difference between voltage and current, and how a
>resistor works - I already know these things, thank you.
>
> The book I'm looking for would describe in detail the frequencies and
>modulation used for VOR signals. It would describe the standard
>interfaces between navcoms, glideslope receivers, indicators, and GPS's.
>It would describe the frequencies and pulses for DME's and transponders.
>It would tell the Gray codes used for mode C.
>
> Is there anything like this out there? Thanks in advance,
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
Jerry, I've got a total blank there. I've never had occasion
to consult such a book. I've used books from the library on
systems but I don't know of anything that speaks to integration
issues . . . particularly between brands and types of equipment.
I think that stuff is handed down by mentorship . . . the market
is too small to expect to sell many books.
If anyone else out there comes across an interesting and/or
informative text on the subject of avionics, let us hear from
you.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of
the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts
leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery
top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well.
----- Original Message -----
From: Boyd C. Braem <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Corrosion
>
> In all my experience with batteries on cars, motorcycles and lawn
> tractors, all the major corrosion and "fungus" has occured at the POS
> terminal, with very little at the NEG terminal. My airplane is clean as
> a whistle. Could there be a leak around the NEG baterry post? did you
> have to whack/hammer it to get the wire connector on? See what happens
> if you lightly coat the NEG terminal and wire connector with some high
> temp grease (to keep it from running all over the place, as does
> petrolatum, when it gets hot).
>
> Boyd.
>
> Mike Nellis wrote:
> >
> >
> > Although not airplane related, I've got a question about battery
> > corrosion on a motorcycle that could just as easily happen on my RV6.
> >
> > I purchased this motorcycle new in 1997 and it gets used occassionally
> > since it's designated as my wife's motorcycle. This past winter it sat
> > for a about 6 months without being started or maintained in any way. I
> > recently pulled it out for a ride and noticed a tremendous amount of
> > white fungus all over the negative side of the battery, all over the
> > battery box, on the swing arm and various parts of the swingarm pivot
> > bolt. I cleaned off all the corroded parts with baking soda as best I
> > could, charged the battery and everything works (electrically) as it
> > should.
> >
> > Now, about 1 month later, I'm starting to see signs of corrosion on the
> > negative terminal again as well as various other parts of the swingarm
> > pivot bolt and batter box.
> >
> > My question is this.
> >
> > 1. Why would this start up after about 4 years.
> > 2. How can I prevent it from occurring?
> >
> > Could it be that the batter is getting weak and causing the problems?
> > (It starts the bike fine)
> >
> > Does moisture have anything to do with it?
> >
> > Thanks to all in advance for any help you might provide.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Plainfield, IL
> > RV6 N699BM (res) Building Flaps
> > Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Avionics book? |
From: | "Steve Williams" <sbw(at)sbw.org> |
08:30:16 PM
I've long relied on Modern Aviation Electronics by Albert Helfrick.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013097692X/sbw/
Especially since you ask about relatively old technology (VOR, DME, XPDR),
this would be a good introduction for you. I have the 1984 edition, but a
1994 edition is now available.
A newer book by Helfrick supposedly covers satellite technology, glass
cockpit, and datalink as well. I haven't seen it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885544103/sbw/
Alas, both are expensive.
Steve Williams
http://www.sbw.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Gray-Code logic levels for encoders |
>
> I knew that . . . thanks for reminding me. I recall thrashing
> through that architecture on program at Mooney a couple of decades
> ago.
>
> Bob . . .
>
*** And it was very much on my mind a month or so ago, as I laboriously
inserted a diode in each altitude bus wire, in order to hook up my IFR GPS.
Manufacturers instructions forced me to insert the diodes, and I cursed
every inch of the way BECAUSE...
...The diodes only DO anything if you turn off the transponder ( letting
its inputs possibly become shorts to ground because they're lacking power )
AND
...The encoder is powered by a switched lead from the transponder and if you
turn the transponder off, the encoder stops encoding anyway!
....DUHHHH. :)
( Cooperate, graduate. My GPS's VFR 337 is now signed off )
- Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics book? |
I did in fact see such a book maybe 27 years ago. Sorry no recall of title nor
author.
Another thought that comes to mind is US Air Force T.O.s (Technical Orders). They
contain
excellent basics (including antenna theory) and I seem to recall one on VORs (TACANs).
It's out there, so keep looking.
Finn
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking for some sort of book that would describe the electronics
> >used in small planes. Best would be at a "technician" level, e.g. for
> >someone who is already in electronics - not to waste my time and paper
> >trying to teach the difference between voltage and current, and how a
> >resistor works - I already know these things, thank you.
> >
> > The book I'm looking for would describe in detail the frequencies and
> >modulation used for VOR signals. It would describe the standard
> >interfaces between navcoms, glideslope receivers, indicators, and GPS's.
> >It would describe the frequencies and pulses for DME's and transponders.
> >It would tell the Gray codes used for mode C.
> >
> > Is there anything like this out there? Thanks in advance,
> >
> > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
> Jerry, I've got a total blank there. I've never had occasion
> to consult such a book. I've used books from the library on
> systems but I don't know of anything that speaks to integration
> issues . . . particularly between brands and types of equipment.
> I think that stuff is handed down by mentorship . . . the market
> is too small to expect to sell many books.
>
> If anyone else out there comes across an interesting and/or
> informative text on the subject of avionics, let us hear from
> you.
>
> Bob . . .
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Avionics book? |
>
>
>I've long relied on Modern Aviation Electronics by Albert Helfrick.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013097692X/sbw/
>
>Especially since you ask about relatively old technology (VOR, DME, XPDR),
>this would be a good introduction for you. I have the 1984 edition, but a
>1994 edition is now available.
Steve, thanks for the head's up on this. There was
a used copy offered at this link for a few dollar less.
I went ahead and picked it up for my library.
>A newer book by Helfrick supposedly covers satellite technology, glass
>cockpit, and datalink as well. I haven't seen it:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885544103/sbw/
>
>Alas, both are expensive.
????? You ought to see what my wife's book bills
are each semester for graduate school texts . . .
This book was a BARGAIN!
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
>
>If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of
>the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts
>leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery
>top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well.
>----- Original Message -----
This is an excellent point that I'd not considered
in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas
though the vent caps and will deposit a very
thin layer of acidic residue across the top
of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current
to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a
day in which to do its thing.
Another good reason NOT to put a flooded battery
in an airplane . . . the same vapors will eat
on battery boxes and adjacent airplane parts.
Long live the RG battery . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of
> >the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts
> >leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery
> >top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well.
> >----- Original Message -----
>
> This is an excellent point that I'd not considered
> in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas
> though the vent caps and will deposit a very
> thin layer of acidic residue across the top
> of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current
> to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a
> day in which to do its thing.
>
snip
> Bob . . .
>
And it's no doubt the source of the "Don't leave your
battery sitting on concrete" myth. Has anyone actually
placed a NEW battery on concrete & had it go dead at an
accelerated rate?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Corrosion |
>
>And it's no doubt the source of the "Don't leave your
>battery sitting on concrete" myth. Has anyone actually
>placed a NEW battery on concrete & had it go dead at an
>accelerated rate?
Could be . . .
Back when that myth was king, the self discharge rate
on a stored battery was probably higher than it
is today. I used to do maintenance checks on batties
used to back up a customers two-way radio system in the
early 60's . . . he wasn't happy about having to replace
the batteries every 2-3 years because the capacity had
fallen off . . . he decided that it was because they
were setting on a concrete floor of a shack at the
base of a tower . . . he built a wooden pallet to
support the batteries . . . it didn't help.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power
for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark
headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V
from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the
current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in
series with the jack to make the headset see 9V?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Subject: | Re: power jack for david clark headset |
I would use the appropriate LM voltage regulator...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Larkin" <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 6:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset
I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power
for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark
headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V
from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the
current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in
series with the jack to make the headset see 9V?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | PWilsonwcr(at)aol.com |
Bob, you should mention the differences on how the terminals are manufactured
wherein the cheapo ones use cast terminals which have built in leak paths to
allow the electrolight to get out. Some of the aircraft batteries (both
flooded and RG) use terminals which are machined from solid material and do
not leak. The cast terminal is another reason, in addition to outgassing,
that some of the batteries have yuk on the top. I dont remember which
batteries commonly used for aircraft use the good terminals. Maybe you can
enlighten us.
Paul
===========
>
>If you have a voltmeter, see what reading you get between the top surface of
>the battery and each of the terminals. I've seen readings of over 3 volts
>leaking across due to an invisible coating that's settled onto the battery
>top. Totthbrush and baking soda-water paste removes it well.
>----- Original Message -----
This is an excellent point that I'd not considered
in a long time . . . flooded batteries outgas
though the vent caps and will deposit a very
thin layer of acidic residue across the top
of a battery . . . this causes a leakage current
to flow . . . while small, it's got 24 hours a
day in which to do its thing.
Another good reason NOT to put a flooded battery
in an airplane . . . the same vapors will eat
on battery boxes and adjacent airplane parts.
Long live the RG battery . . .
Bob . . . >>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Comments/Questions: I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small switch in ea grip
YET still use switches on the panel if needed. What do I need to do this? Relays?
How do I wire?
Why would you want to add complexity to your system and use
up panel space to duplicate functions already in place on the
grip? Loss of functionality of either pitch trim or
flap positioning doesn't put the airplane into any immediate
hazard and in most cases, has only a small effect on pilot
workload.
What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't
see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system
reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really
gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out
the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability
into the grips-only switching system and save some time and
dollars in the process . . .
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: power jack for david clark headset |
Why not use a simple 3 pin fixed voltage regulator like LM7809? Could probably
pick it up from Radio Shack.
Finn
Andrew Larkin wrote:
>
> I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power
> for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark
> headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V
> from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the
> current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in
> series with the jack to make the headset see 9V?
>
> Thanks.
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: batteries and leaky terminal posts |
>
>Bob, you should mention the differences on how the terminals are manufactured
>wherein the cheapo ones use cast terminals which have built in leak paths to
>allow the electrolight to get out. Some of the aircraft batteries (both
>flooded and RG) use terminals which are machined from solid material and do
>not leak. The cast terminal is another reason, in addition to outgassing,
>that some of the batteries have yuk on the top. I dont remember which
>batteries commonly used for aircraft use the good terminals. Maybe you can
>enlighten us.
> Paul
>===========
I'm not sure I can speak to this with much authority.
Just looking over the various batteries in my shop,
I note that attache terminals range from stamped
(relatively thin sheet metal), to what must be
cast or perhaps molded (lead tab about 1/4" thick)
to female threaded bushings that are nearly flush
with the top of the battery. The common thread with
all of the batteries I have in hand is what appears
to be a poured epoxy seal around the terminal.
I think the terminals on flooded batteries were
simply pressed through holes in the case but
I can't tell by looking at the battery in my
wife's Saturn . . . it's a side-terminal battery
with close fitting recesses and I can't tell what
technique was used to effect a seal between terminal
and case.
We know that an RG battery must be gas tight . . .
otherwise, the recombinant gas technology is
compromised and the battery will fail. This
means the manufacturer has to go the extra
mile to insure a seal between terminal post
and case. The battery in the Saturn is a new
so-called "maintenance free" but I can hear
it slosh . . . this means it's probably got
vents to atmosphere and a less stringent
requirement for sealing around the terminals.
I think you can probably get a superior seal
around any terminal with the epoxy potting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Antenna Analyzer |
Bob
In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I
couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available
any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you
recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna analyzer?
I used to rent such a device but was
unable to make the effort break even. The critters cost
about $250. After ten trips at $25/pop rental + postage
+ two or three trips to the workbench for repairs it was
too much work to justify the service.
An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to
do the job . . . The instrument I used to rent got sold
on Ebay and I replaced it with the later model for my
shop. You can view/purchase it at:
http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html
and
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan
to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment
for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something
like this back in my two-way radio technician days!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Antenna Analyzer |
This is a common piece of test equipment for Amateur Radio Operators. Ask
around, there may be more in your area than you may think.
Carl Froehlich (KV4U)
RV-8A (systems install)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna Analyzer
Bob
In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I
couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available
any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you
recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna
analyzer?
I used to rent such a device but was
unable to make the effort break even. The critters cost
about $250. After ten trips at $25/pop rental + postage
+ two or three trips to the workbench for repairs it was
too much work to justify the service.
An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to
do the job . . . The instrument I used to rent got sold
on Ebay and I replaced it with the later model for my
shop. You can view/purchase it at:
http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html
and
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B
Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan
to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment
for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something
like this back in my two-way radio technician days!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Melvinke(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
The Governor does not require a relay. Works well.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
Subject: | Re: Dual switches? |
Bob: I see your point so what relay do I need to wire the grip switches to
the trim & flaps? Do I need a relay for each function? What do I need to
procure and does your relay come with a wiring diagram?
Also Bob thanks for the prompt reply as I just place a parts order
this morning!
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual switches?
>
>
> >
> >Comments/Questions: I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small switch in
ea grip YET still use switches on the panel if needed. What do I need to do
this? Relays? How do I wire?
>
> Why would you want to add complexity to your system and use
> up panel space to duplicate functions already in place on the
> grip? Loss of functionality of either pitch trim or
> flap positioning doesn't put the airplane into any immediate
> hazard and in most cases, has only a small effect on pilot
> workload.
>
> What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't
> see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system
> reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really
> gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out
> the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability
> into the grips-only switching system and save some time and
> dollars in the process . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
> ( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
> ( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
> ( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
> ( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
> ( Charles Kettering )
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 06/30/01 |
I'm not an expert in battery technology either, but I believe all the new
car batteries have "RG" technology - they use a different lead alloy that
reduces - not eliminates - outgassing during charging. They are claimed to
be "maintenance free," but are still vented and can be refilled with water
by simply prying the caps off. Put a screwdriver under the large
rectangular covers and you can just pop them off and refill the battery just
like any other. Prolongs the life a little as they usually die when they
finally run out of water.
original message:
We know that an RG battery must be gas tight . . .
otherwise, the recombinant gas technology is
compromised and the battery will fail. This
means the manufacturer has to go the extra
mile to insure a seal between terminal post
and case. The battery in the Saturn is a new
so-called "maintenance free" but I can hear
it slosh . . . this means it's probably got
vents to atmosphere and a less stringent
requirement for sealing around the terminals.
I think you can probably get a superior seal
around any terminal with the epoxy potting.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Lonnie Wood" <lonnwood(at)msn.com> |
Does anybody have part numbers for switches that are used in control grips?
Lonnie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fergkyle" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca> |
Subject: | MFJ Antenna analyzer |
"In a previous catalog you had an item #RAA-1 that was available. I
couldn't find the item in your current catalogs. Is the item not available
any more or is it just no longer listed. If it is not available can you
recommend to me the make , model and maker of an affordable antenna
analyzer?"
Bob: " I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the
effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at
$25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs
it was too much work to justify the service."
I have an MFJ 259 - ham radio device which I won at a hamfest
(radio festival - not a swine convention). Here they do away with the better
part of $500 Canadian, so not something to fritter away.
Also, they are extremely sensitive to any power variance. You
power them with the switch OFF, then selct ON otherwise the surge blows
their little brains out. Also a stranger forgets and puts a 1/10Watt though
them and they fall strangely 'silent'.
Therefore, while I gave it to my Amateur Radio club, I kept it
and do not loan out, but visit and measure as a service. It's the only way.
" An avionics shop should have the necessary equipment to do the job
. . . The instrument I used to rent got sold on Ebay and I replaced it
with the later model for my shop. You can view/purchase it at:
http://www.wb0w.com/mfj/manuals/mfj259man.html
and
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-259B"
True, true but have we lost all skills learnt in the Depression?
Usually, volunteers come through when commerce and goverrnments fail -
that's the measure of citizenship. 'Hams" cannot charge for services, so why
not intrigue the local radio club to measure and recommend antenna work?
(a) The older guys will rise to the challenge (and be interested to
see your baby) since construction is more and more toward antennas, rather
than surface-mount machinery, and
(b) ...somebody in the club will have the -259 and be willing to use
it for you. Local clubs can be found be approaching the American Radio Relay
league for a contact.
It works usually.....
Ferg Europa A064
Perhaps your local EAA chapter could own one for loan
to members. This is a REALLY nice piece of equipment
for the dollars . . . wish I'd had access to something
like this back in my two-way radio technician days!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: grip switches |
>
>Does anybody have part numbers for switches that are used in control grips?
>Lonnie
There are dozens . . . you need to decide if you
want toggles, rockers, slide switches, push-buttons,
etc. Where are you buying your grip? If from
Infinity, it can be ordered with a combination
of switches that meet your needs.
If you're building from scratch, you need
to research the realm of affordable
miniature switches. Start at:
http://www.ckcorp.com/download.shtml
down in the lower half of this index you'll
find listings for 7000 and 8000 series
switch catalogs that will give you an
excellent starting point for selecting
and procuring the switches you need.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>I'm not an expert in battery technology either, but I believe all the new
>car batteries have "RG" technology - they use a different lead alloy that
>reduces - not eliminates - outgassing during charging. They are claimed to
>be "maintenance free," but are still vented and can be refilled with water
>by simply prying the caps off. Put a screwdriver under the large
>rectangular covers and you can just pop them off and refill the battery just
>like any other. Prolongs the life a little as they usually die when they
>finally run out of water.
This genre' of flooded battery has been
around for a long time. Virtually every
product offered at the consumer battery
outlets for cars lack obvious means for
checking or maintaining water levels.
The battery I just replaced in my wife's
Saturn was "maintenance free" as was the
Wall Mart super-warranty battery I replaced
it with. Neither battery appeared to have
any kind of cover I could remove without
doing serious damage to the battery. I
do recall some flooded batteries of 10-20
years ago when I was able to pry the caps
up and gain access to liquid in the cells.
I don't know how much of the physics in
these batteries is shared with RG technology
with respect to control of outgassing.
Intuitively, there must be SOMETHING to
reduce outgassing compared to batteries
of yesteryear . . . else NONE would make
it to warranty life.
In my not so humble opinion, these so called
maintenance free batteries are not suited
for airplanes . . . the can leak, they
contain relatively unrestrained liquid,
and the PERFORM like a flooded battery . . .
pretty poor compared to a real RG device.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob: I see your point so what relay do I need to wire the grip switches to
>the trim & flaps? Do I need a relay for each function? What do I need to
>procure and does your relay come with a wiring diagram?
>Also Bob thanks for the prompt reply as I just place a parts order
>this morning!
If you're using MAC servos . . . you can switch the
tiny amount of current these draw through the switch
right on the stick if you make the switch a two-pole,
double throw, spring loaded to center. Or you can
build your own "relay deck" using a pair of relays
like our S704-1. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/s704inst.jpg
Flap motors take a bit more snort and definitely needs
a relay. Our S704-1 is also suitable here. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: MFJ Antenna analyzer |
>I used to rent such a device but was unable to make the
>effort break even. The critters cost about $250. After ten trips at
>$25/pop rental + postage + two or three trips to the workbench for repairs
>it was too much work to justify the service."
I have an MFJ 259 - ham radio device which I won at a hamfest
(radio festival - not a swine convention). Here they do away with the better
part of $500 Canadian, so not something to fritter away.
Also, they are extremely sensitive to any power variance. You
power them with the switch OFF, then select ON otherwise the surge blows
their little brains out. Also a stranger forgets and puts a 1/10Watt though
them and they fall strangely 'silent'.
Not sure what this problem is about. Was this about
plugging in an external power supply? The MFJ-259 does
have an external power jack . . . never found it very useful
except to recharge internal ni-cads . . . and never ran
ni-cads 'cause they don't store as much snort as an alkaline
cell.
If you don't have a well regulated external power supply,
this might be a hazard to its internal works . . . but
that is true of most electronic gizmos. With respect to
the 1/10 watt issue, I suspect you're talking about people
who inadvertently drove their comm transmitters into the
device . . . this is a hazard to all high frequency counters
and impedance bridges.
If you buy an MFJ-259, never hook it directly to a transmitter
to read it's frequency . . . a short whip antenna on the
MFJ-259 will pick up enough radiated energy from the airplane's
normal comm antenna to make an accurate frequency measurement.
In the antenna measurement mode, there's no reason for a strong
source of RF to be connected to the instrument -or- or radiated
in close proximity to the antenna being evaulated.
All of these hazards to the instrument are talked about
in the instruction manual. It's not fragile if used properly
but it doesn't take a real big hammer to break things if
a few precautions common to all devices of this type are not
observed.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: MFJ Antenna analyzer |
The MFJ-259 is a neat gadget - I have one myself - but it is definitely
not up to the rigours of being rented out! If Fluke or HP made one, it
would do - but it would cost a grand or two.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
07/02/2001 09:06:25 AM
Hi Bob,
Can you direct me to a spec sheet on an RG battery for my RV-6 that would
be applicable to my use. Its almost that time.
Thanks
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
Andrew,
I did this in my RV-6. I am using DRE headsets so I emailed the tech
support at DRE. They were very helpful. They sent a simple circuit diagram
for a converter that included a 9 volt regulator, and some resistors and
capacitors to clean up the output. I can send the diagram to you directly
if you would like.
Ken Harrill
RV-6
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Larkin [mailto:aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset
I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power
for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark
headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V
from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the
current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in
series with the jack to make the headset see 9V?
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Can you direct me to a spec sheet on an RG battery for my RV-6 that would
>be applicable to my use. Its almost that time.
>
>Thanks
>
>Eric
Sure. Click here:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/images/pdf/lc-rd1217p.pdf
You can take this data sheet into any battery store and
if they can't sell you a Panasonic, they'll have at least
one of dozens of manufacturers examples of this same battery.
You should be able to get it from a storefront battery
outlet in the neighborhood of $65 . . . if push come to shove
you can order from Allied Electronics. Their catalog page
for this battery is:
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=13.pdf
They get $77 plus UPS shipping.
B&C has this battery:
http://bandcspecialty.com/Bc104-1.pdf
Also, see the Yuasa NP18-12 at:
http://www.mywebplace.com/yuasaspec.html
These guys get about $65 + freight.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that a lot
of people would be interested in.
Howard
RV-8
wiring
Mooresville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Dual switches? |
>
>Why can't this guy just add another switch on the panel in parallel?
He sure can . . . but what for? What is the value received
for the effort/costs expended? Virtually every machine I
can recall having worked with has but one switch for each task
having to do with operating the machine. Electric trims have
had manual mechanical backups but as near as I can remember,
there have been no instances of dual electrical controls
(oops, there ARE electric trim switches and ptt switches
on the control yolks of both sides of most airplanes
that have them).
This doesn't mean that they cannot be added for reasons of
convenience or appearance . . . just trying to get the reader
to think through all the failure modes versus convenience
issues before drilling more holes in his airplane.
>> >I want to run my Trim & Flaps via a small
>> > switch in ea grip YET still use switches on the panel if needed.
>> >What do I need to do this? Relays? How do I wire?
>>
>> What you propose is certainly doable . . . but I don't
>> see much added value . . . and it will drive overall system
>> reliability down due to increased parts count. If you really
>> gotta do this, drop me a note and I'll help you sketch out
>> the system but I think it's easy to build practical reliability
>> into the grips-only switching system and save some time and
>> dollars in the process . . .
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
Howard,
The list does not allow attachments. I will have to send it to each list
member's email address.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: W4PPN(at)aol.com [mailto:W4PPN(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset
Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that
a lot of people would be interested in.
Howard
RV-8
wiring
Mooresville, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: power jack for david clark headset |
or provide your URL so that we can individually check it out.
Ken Harrill wrote:
>
> Howard,
>
> The list does not allow attachments. I will have to send it to each list
> member's email address.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W4PPN(at)aol.com [mailto:W4PPN(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:01 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: power jack for david clark headset
>
>
> Ken Harrill. Why don't you post it to the net. It might be something that
> a lot of people would be interested in.
>
> Howard
> RV-8
> wiring
> Mooresville, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Hottle" <jeffh(at)primatech.com> |
Current Digikey price for Panasonic LC-RD1217P is $41.65 (quantity 1). I
recently bought 4 of them for a UPS at work. Shipping was surprisingly
cheap.
http://www.digikey.com
Jeff Hottle
> You should be able to get it from a storefront battery
> outlet in the neighborhood of $65 . . . if push come to shove
> you can order from Allied Electronics. Their catalog page
> for this battery is:
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=13.pdf
>
> They get $77 plus UPS shipping.
>
> B&C has this battery:
>
>http://bandcspecialty.com/Bc104-1.pdf
>
> Also, see the Yuasa NP18-12 at:
>
>http://www.mywebplace.com/yuasaspec.html
>
> These guys get about $65 + freight.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Servo supply. |
>
>> Matte Draille also sells a speed adjustable servo thru Matronics, called
>> " The Govenor" it also has relays for multiple switches
>> (pilot/co-pilot). Van's also sells it int heit catalog.
>
>Tell me more about it. Is it better than the one from Mac?
>
>I have the one from Mac already and I am under the impression that I have to
>wire it up with two relays. Is there a better way?
You can read about it here:
http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm
It's a solid state replacement for relays that ADDS
the ability to set trim speed with a screwdriver
adjustment.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
Sorry Ken, I forgot that.
Send me a copy if it is not too much trouble.
w4ppn(at)aol.com
Howard Cochran
Mooresville, NC
RV-8 Slooooow build
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: power jack for david clark headset |
>
>I want to have a jack in my aircraft to provide power
>for the noise cancelling feature on my David Clark
>headset. The battery pack takes six AAs, so I need 9V
>from my 12V electrical system. Can I just measure the
>current, assume it's constant, and put a resistor in
>series with the jack to make the headset see 9V?
The task is easy to do. This circuit is similar to
the small dimmer we sell which you can see at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/dim5-14.jpg
The schematic for this device is shown in the
installation instructions at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/lighting/9013_ins.pdf
You can get parts from most electronics suppliers.
An LM317T, a 380 Ohm, 1/4 watt resistor. Substitute
a 2400 Ohm, 1/4 watt resistor for the 910 Ohm
reistor. A couple of capacitors rounds it out,
. . . 10uf @ 25 volts is in the ballpark. Just
put a short circuit across pins 1 and 4 of the
assembly, eliminate the potentiometer, and volia!
you've got a precision 9v regulator with excellent
bus noise rejection.
If you wanted to order the DIM5-14 from B&C without
the potentiometer, you can put your own resistor
in the connector between pins 1 and 4 to set
the output to 9 volts. Since 2400 is needed and
910 is already in place, you would add a 1500
ohm resistor between pins 1 and 4 of the DIM5-14's
connector.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Did you notice that the 20 amp is the same size and only weighs 5 more ozs
and cost $5 more?
Ross
> Current Digikey price for Panasonic LC-RD1217P is $41.65 (quantity 1). I
> recently bought 4 of them for a UPS at work. Shipping was surprisingly
> cheap.
>
> http://www.digikey.com
>
> Jeff Hottle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Subject: | power jack for david clark headset |
>
>
>Andrew,
>
>I did this in my RV-6. I am using DRE headsets so I emailed the tech
>support at DRE. They were very helpful. They sent a simple circuit diagram
>for a converter that included a 9 volt regulator, and some resistors and
>capacitors to clean up the output. I can send the diagram to you directly
>if you would like.
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV-6
Ken,
Could you send me a copy too please?
thanks, Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | S-TEC autopilots |
Just thought I would give an update on my System 30 problems on my RG.
S-TEC agreed to look at the units so I sent them back to Texas. They
couldn't find anything wrong, but sent me different roll and pitch computers
(yellow tagged "serviceable"). I tried them and couldn't believe the
difference. Everything, including pitch stability and VOR tracking, work
just as I would hope they would. Now, if these units are so different than
the ones I had (which were also not the original, but worked the same), why
can't S-TEC measure the difference. One sure symptom was that after forcing
a positive overshoot by engaging altitude hold during a climb the previous
unit would continue moving the wheel forward all the time the altitude was
high, even when diving back down to the set point. The new one starts
moving the wheel back when the altitudes starts to close in on the set
point - before actually getting there. Totally different response. One
good thing S-TEC did the whole thing for nothing, including overnight
Saturday delivery (of course, they should have done it 3 years ago).
Thanks for all the replies to my original questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "R Colman" <ronincolman(at)home.com> |
Subject: | S-TEC autopilots |
Perhaps the recession is bringing out the best in them?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary
Casey
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:27 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: S-TEC autopilots
Just thought I would give an update on my System 30 problems on my RG.
S-TEC agreed to look at the units so I sent them back to Texas. They
couldn't find anything wrong, but sent me different roll and pitch computers
(yellow tagged "serviceable"). I tried them and couldn't believe the
difference. Everything, including pitch stability and VOR tracking, work
just as I would hope they would. Now, if these units are so different than
the ones I had (which were also not the original, but worked the same), why
can't S-TEC measure the difference. One sure symptom was that after forcing
a positive overshoot by engaging altitude hold during a climb the previous
unit would continue moving the wheel forward all the time the altitude was
high, even when diving back down to the set point. The new one starts
moving the wheel back when the altitudes starts to close in on the set
point - before actually getting there. Totally different response. One
good thing S-TEC did the whole thing for nothing, including overnight
Saturday delivery (of course, they should have done it 3 years ago).
Thanks for all the replies to my original questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium
alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. They tend to gas less but
are still vented, although they have more traps or baffles to retain the
acid. RG batteries are still vented, but they have a valve.
The old wive's tale of batteries and concrete originated when batteries had
tar cases, and the moisture from the concrete would make them discharge
quickly. The newer batteries have plastic cases and may be stored on concrete.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Did you notice that the 20 amp is the same size and only weighs 5 more ozs
>and cost $5 more?
>
>Ross
Yes . . . I'm not sure what that's all about. Take
a peek at:
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial_oem/battery/battery_oem/chem/seal/seal.htm
You can see the recommended service for these two batteries
is slightly different. The 20 a.h. version is "standby power" only.
This suggests to me that they traded deep cycle service life for
capacity by packing in more, thinner plates. I still recommend
the 17 a.h. battery for your airplane.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium
>alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy. They tend to gas less but
>are still vented, although they have more traps or baffles to retain the
>acid. RG batteries are still vented, but they have a valve.
>The old wive's tale of batteries and concrete originated when batteries had
>tar cases, and the moisture from the concrete would make them discharge
>quickly. The newer batteries have plastic cases and may be stored on concrete.
>
>Steve
>Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
Excellent data points. I do recall reading about the 'tar' cases
a lot of years ago . . .
Skip Koss at Concord told me that the vents in his batteries
are designed to open at about 1.5 psi overpressure. Under
normal charge-discharge cycles, internal pressures of an
RG battery are below atmospheric . . . this is why the battery's
valves don't open at altitude causing any loss of internal gasses
and moisture.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Wiring multiple audio sources |
From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition
to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from
the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer
(rev limit).
Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How
would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom
is 600 ohms)?
Other methods?
Thanks,
Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
>
> The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium
> alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy.
*** Don't the lead-calcium batteries charge to a different voltage or
something? Seems to me I remember that there was *some* effect requiring a
recalibration of the charging system....
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michel" <michelboucher594(at)home.com> |
My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the rear
fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside there
also.
Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off his ACK
ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions.
Thanks for the help,
Michel
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: ELT going off |
>
> My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the rear
> fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside there
> also.
> Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off his ACK
> ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions.
>
*** RFI. RF from the COM transmitter is getting into the ELT, either
from the ELT's antenna, or straight through its case. The RF is being
rectified by semiconductors inside the ELT and creating DC voltages that
the ELT interprets as an airplane crash.
Happens to radio hams all the time. You transmit, your neighbor's garage
door opens.
If it wasn't an ELT, I'd say stick an RF filter in the antenna line.
Unfortunately, ELTs operate in the same frequency band as COM transmitters.
So I would say your friend's options are
* Move the COM antenna somewhere farther from the ELT
* Move the ELT antenna somewhere farther from the COM antenna
* Take the ELT apart and modify it so it is not sensitive to RF
( add bypass capacitors to the "sense" circuitry )
( Maybe complain to ACK? )
* Get a different ELT that is not sensitive to RF.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <jim(at)barlows.net> |
Michel -
I have the same thing happening on my Space Walker II with the ELT and comm
antennae in the rear.
I'm working on some grounding issues. If this helps, I'll let you know.
Jim
>
>
> My friend has a KR2 with the ELT located with the antennae inside the
> rear fusselage. He had enough room to install his com antennae inside
> there also.
> Unfortunately for some strange reason when he transmits its sets off
> his ACK ELT. Any ideas as to why this is happening and solutions.
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Michel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring multiple audio sources |
>
>
>I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In addition
to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms from
the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and tachometer
(rev limit).
>
>Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom? How
would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the intercom
is 600 ohms)?
>
>Other methods?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring).
Would really recommend an audio isolation/mixing amplifer
like I've shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf
and . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf
Individual monophonic audio coming into pins 2,3, or 4
of the schematic can be adjusted in relationship to the
others by altering the value of the 470 ohm resistor.
Make smaller to get louder, larger to get softer.
You COULD put a small screwdriver adjust potentiometer
on each input but once adjusted, they don't generally
need further attention . . . hence the selected resistor
value is a pretty good way to go too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>>
>> The newer "maintenance free" auto batteries are made from a lead-calcium
>> alloy rather than the older lead-antimony alloy.
>
>*** Don't the lead-calcium batteries charge to a different voltage or
>something? Seems to me I remember that there was *some* effect requiring a
>recalibration of the charging system....
I've heard rumors to that effect but nobody seems
to want to sign up to it as fact. It seems that modern
batteries are more tolerant of voltage. The battery
that was installed in my van when I bought ran better
that three years. After it went belly up, I replaced it with
an RG battery and checked the charging voltage. It was
15.1 VOLTS! I wasn't too happy with the idea of swapping
out that 90A alternator just to fix the voltage. It occurred
to me that the old battery didn't throw up it's hands
in surrender for quite a few years. I left the alternator
alone and two years later I replaced it when the big
honker died. The new alternator puts out 14.4 volts.
The same RG battery is in the car doing fine after getting
it's socks beat off for two years.
Bottom line is that I believe all the worrying about
tightly controlled bus voltage in order to accommodate
the battery may not be justified.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Good Battery Article |
Knew I'd seen this somewhere....
http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Andrew Seefried" <seefried(at)oberon.ark.com> |
Subject: | Re: ELT going off |
Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that
connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF
was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: ELT going off |
>
> Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that
> connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF
> was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew
>
*** Hmm, I forgot about the front panel console. If RF is getting in
through that cord, you MIGHT be able to eliminate it by putting a ferrite
on the cord. AKA "common mode choke". I think that such ferrites might
be obtainable at your local Radio Shack. They come in two halves, with
some kind of clip to put them together. You put the two halves around the
wire, close to the ELT. If one doesn't do it, try two. Or three. You
can also increase the poweer of a ferrite by winding the cable through
it for a turn.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | power for headsets |
Thanks for all the advice on using a voltage
regulator. I will likely end up going this direction.
I'm still interested in my original idea however --
using a resistor in series. Does anyone know a reason
why this wouldn't work? Does the noise cancellation
feature require exceptionally clean DC or have a
fluctuating current draw? It would be a lot easier to
implement and has a much lower parts count.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: power for headsets |
>
>Thanks for all the advice on using a voltage
>regulator. I will likely end up going this direction.
> I'm still interested in my original idea however --
>using a resistor in series. Does anyone know a reason
>why this wouldn't work? Does the noise cancellation
>feature require exceptionally clean DC or have a
>fluctuating current draw? It would be a lot easier to
>implement and has a much lower parts count.
hey . . . give it a try . . . the worst thing
that happens is that you have to do something
different. I'd use a fairly hefty capacitor
(10 uF or more at 15v or more) to bypass the
downstream side of the resistor to ground. This
does two things, it makes the new voltage source
look more rigid to fluctuations in current draw
and it filters off some of the noises that might
reside on the incoming voltage from the bus . . .
Let us know how it works out.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of
the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case
the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS
catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and
the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference
in reliability or losses?
Thanks in advance.
Richard Dudley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "lehmansmtl" <lehmansmtl(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2) stereo |
intercom with mono headsets
(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why
have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6?
b.) With the audio isolating/mixer amplifier shouldn't we have jacks
to plug the headset directly into the A-200 to prevent amplifier failure
being a COM failure?
(2) My Softcom ATC-4PS panel mount intercom requires the mono headphone
plugs pulled 1 click out of the jacks to use the COM with the intercom
switched either OFF or PILOT ISOLATE. Switched to INTERCOM, the headphone
plugs must be fully inserted for COM (and intercom) use. Is there some
simple wiring/switch (relay?) arrangement anyone could suggest to make the
pilot isolate mode available with the pilot's headphone plug fully inserted?
(Softcom's suggested solution is to replace my 4 mono headsets with stereo
headsets ... which I consider too costly.)
Thanks,
Mike
__
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring multiple audio sources
>
>
> >
> >
> >I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio.
In addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural
alarms from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace
warning), and tachometer (rev limit).
> >
> >Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the
intercom? How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the
impedance of the intercom is 600 ohms)?
> >
> >Other methods?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Rob Acker (RV-6, painting and wiring).
>
> Would really recommend an audio isolation/mixing amplifer
> like I've shown at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v3.pdf
>
> and . . .
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v4.pdf
>
Bob . . .
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wesley & Susan Knettle <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net> |
Subject: | Antenna placement |
Always thought the reason for certificated aircraft requiring 30"
between antennas must have had some substance.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2) |
stereo intercom with mono headsets
From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
I don't have the A-200 manual here with me at work, but if I recall the built-in
intercom only works during recieve mode, and only one station can transmit.
I can check for sure tonight if you need the info.
Rob (RV-6, sick of painting)
>-----Original Message-----
>FROM: lehmansmtl
>TO: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>DATE: Wed 7/4/01 21:56
>SUBJECT: AeroElectric-List: Re: ( 1) 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 and (2)
stereo intercom with mono headsets
>
>(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why
>have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antenna placement |
>
>
>Always thought the reason for certificated aircraft requiring 30"
>between antennas must have had some substance.
First, it's not a "requirement" and while a useful suggestion,
neither is it unique to certified aircraft. If an aircraft
radio manufacturer had it's fondest dreams come true, every
antenna connected to its product would be surrounded by 10
square feet of flat aluminum ground plane. No other conductors
including antennas, vertical fins, etc. would be out of sight
over the horizon.
Give that we don't live in a perfect world, there are compromises
from the ideal which must be tried and evaluated for its utility.
This may mean that you have to mount a pair of antennas less than
30" apart . . . I've worked on several airplanes where up to
three antennas on fuselage centerline that probably averaged less
than 20" apart . . . if the radios were working, the pilot says
things were working "just fine" . . .
Could they work "better"? Most certainly. But terms like
"better" and "just fine" have no quantitative value. "Just fine"
for this pilot may have fallen short of expectations for another
pilot. Bottom line is the rules-of-thumb are exactly that. A
starting point for investigation as whether any particular
arrangement of equipment will meet YOUR needs.
Be wary of terms like "required" and "certified" or any other
adjective that exudes certainty. I'll suggest that the use of
these terms have no value in the real world of physics nor do
they replace a determination as to whether or not the installation
is suited to your task.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Coaxial Cables |
>
>Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of
>the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case
>the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS
>catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and
>the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference
>in reliability or losses?
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Richard Dudley
Couple of reasons . . . a relatively minor reason is for
signal loss. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/antenna/coaxloss.pdf
RG-400 is certainly lower loss coax but the length of feedlines
used in most airplanes doesn't represent a large performance
issue. RG-58 has been used successfully in airplanes since
WWII . . .
Which leads directly into the biggest reason for RG-400 over
RG-58 . . . The older coax uses polyethylene and PVC for
insulation. Further, while "RG-58" used to be a term defined
by a military specification for materials and performance,
that spec is obsolete and no longer maintained by the
military. This means that anyone can put the term "RG-58"
on any combination of wire and plastic that they so choose
and you have no assurances of performance based on the
original specification.
Finally, RG-58 has been disallowed on certified ships
because of the insulating materials . . . and their
behavior in a fire. Quite frankly, this issue is way
down on the list of my concerns in terms of materials
choices for new aircraft construction.
The biggest advantage of RG-400 for the amateur builder
is longevity of performance because the new coax uses
more modern materials that are cousins to wire like
Tefzel (22759) and Rayhem Spec 55. If you chose not to wire
your airplane with PVC insulated wire in favor of the
superior performance of Tefzel, why would you poke
a piece of Poly-E/PVC insulated coax into the airplane?
Compared to the cost of everything else you've purchased
to include in your project, cost of choosing the very
best available wire over the kind of stuff you find in
a 1960's Cessna is trivial.
You guys are building the best airplanes to have ever
flown . . . take care lest your "Scotch" ancestry
blurs your decision making processes. . .
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re:noise canceling power supply |
Headsets Inc. uses an isolated DC to DC converter to supply clean voltage to
their converted headsets. You would want the cleanest DC you can get for
noise canceling headphones. A simple resistor probably wouldn't be the best.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Coaxial Cables |
> Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of
> the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case
> the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS
> catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and
> the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference
> in reliability or losses?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Richard Dudley
Yes, as far as I'm concerned there are compelling reasons for selecting
RG-400U. Bob Nuckolls has explained the difference, which I tried to find to
include here but apparently have misplaced. If you search his site I'm sure
you'll find it somewhere... www.aeroelectric.com.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL, 54 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wiring multiple audio sources |
> I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In
addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms
from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and
tachometer (rev limit).
>
> Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom?
How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the
intercom is 600 ohms)?
>
> Other methods?
Did this ever get answered? I have the same question except as applied to my
PS Engineering PM300 intercom.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2 place intercom with ICOM A-200 |
>
>
>(1) a.) Since the A-200 has a built-in 2 place intercom and aux inputs, why
>have the Flightcom 403mc in an RV6?
good question . . . does the A-200 accept auxiliary inputs from
other audio sources?
> b.) With the audio isolating/mixer amplifier shouldn't we have jacks
>to plug the headset directly into the A-200 to prevent amplifier failure
>being a COM failure?
not a bad idea . . . but suppose you DO have a Comm failure
what's your backup . . . and would that same backup cover the
case for a failed audio isolation amplifier?
>(2) My Softcom ATC-4PS panel mount intercom requires the mono headphone
>plugs pulled 1 click out of the jacks to use the COM with the intercom
>switched either OFF or PILOT ISOLATE. Switched to INTERCOM, the headphone
>plugs must be fully inserted for COM (and intercom) use. Is there some
>simple wiring/switch (relay?) arrangement anyone could suggest to make the
>pilot isolate mode available with the pilot's headphone plug fully inserted?
>(Softcom's suggested solution is to replace my 4 mono headsets with stereo
>headsets ... which I consider too costly.)
How about rewiring your mono headsets for stereo? You can
put new wires and plugs on that allow you to separate the
right an left earphones into stereo circuits.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wiring multiple audio sources |
From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Randy,
Not as of yet. I had a private reply (thanks B.L.) indicating a solution was in
the archives, but I could not find it.
I did e-mail Flightcom, and the said it would work, though with varying volume
if impedences deviated from 600 ohms.
Let me know if you find out anything from PS.
Rob Acker (RV-6)
-----Original Message-----
FROM: Randy Lervold
DATE: Thu 7/5/01 10:22
SUBJECT: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring multiple audio sources
> I'm hooking up a Flightcom 403mc intercom to an Icom A-200 comm radio. In
addition to the comm radio, I would like to be able to hear the aural alarms
from the engine monitor, GPS (waypoint intersection/airspace warning), and
tachometer (rev limit).
>
> Can I simply attach these audio outputs the the AUX input of the intercom?
How would one correct an overly loud or quiet alarm (the impedance of the
intercom is 600 ohms)?
>
> Other methods?
Did this ever get answered? I have the same question except as applied to my
PS Engineering PM300 intercom.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Coaxial Cables |
>
> The biggest advantage of RG-400 for the amateur builder
> is longevity of performance because the new coax uses
*** I can expand on this. As you install that RG-58, think of how happy
you will be tearing it out and installing new, ten years hence. RG58 starts
to age the instant it comes off the wiremaking machine. Hams are warned
to buy RG-58 or RG-8 from a store that turns a lot of it over, so it won't
have sat on the shelf for long. That even goes for brand name stuff, like
Belden. And, since there's no MIL spec anymore, your guess is as good as
mine what kind of chewing gum is in the off-brand stuff.
To my mind, there are only two disadvantages to RG-400
* It's heavy
( Heft a hunk of it, you can tell the difference )
* It's expensive.
( O my wallet is light.... Well, we've got an expensive hobby. I
just paid $301 plus shipping for a ten-dollar Stewart-Warner gauge
that says "Beech" on the front )
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Oil Pressure Idiot Light? |
Hello,
I have discovered that there's an inop gauge in my airplane ( Oh NO!!!!
). It's the Hobbs meter ( whew, that's all right, then ).
:)
Since I don't rent the airplane out, I really have no need for a Hobbs
meter. However, I seem to remember that Hobbs meters usually run off an
oil pressure switch.
Would there be any point to hooking the Hobbs switch up to a big red
warning light? Or are these switches calibrated such that when they
go on, the engine has already blown?
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <glassman(at)tns.net> |
Subject: | Re duplicate trim switches. |
I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near
the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice
gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an
experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his
needs.
Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: noise canceling power supply |
>
>Headsets Inc. uses an isolated DC to DC converter to supply clean voltage to
>their converted headsets. You would want the cleanest DC you can get for
>noise canceling headphones. A simple resistor probably wouldn't be the best.
>
>Steve
A resistor -AND- capacitor combination CAN equal or be
even cleaner than the output of a DC-DC converter . . . an
important feature of DC-DC converters is the ability
of some models to have outputs that are totally insulated
from the inputs. This can be important for the elimination
of the effects of ground loops and/or special requirements
of the powered system to NOT have any power leads common to
the rest of the system.
Take an ohmmeter and get the resistance measurement from
the battery (-) lead of the amplifier power input and the
ground lead for signal input . . . in some cases these are
one in the same connection and a resistance measurement is
not needed. If you read a substantial resistance value between
these two leads . . . say greater than 10 ohms, it's possible
that a simple resistor/capacitor supply would defeat a requirement
of the headset's electronics.
When push comes to shove, it's never a bad idea to talk to
the folks who designed the product and ask their recommendations
both for YOUR and THEIR fondest wishes . . . what you want
to do may very well do just fine. While we can trade around lots
of e-mails and thrash shovels full of conjecture, there's no
substitute for facts from the designer.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Idiot Light? |
>
>Hello,
>
> I have discovered that there's an inop gauge in my airplane ( Oh NO!!!!
>). It's the Hobbs meter ( whew, that's all right, then ).
>
> :)
>
> Since I don't rent the airplane out, I really have no need for a Hobbs
>meter. However, I seem to remember that Hobbs meters usually run off an
>oil pressure switch.
>
> Would there be any point to hooking the Hobbs switch up to a big red
>warning light? Or are these switches calibrated such that when they
>go on, the engine has already blown?
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
Unless you've purchased a high-dollar, "aircraft" pressure
switch, the device is probably automotive and will transfer
contacts in the 4-10 psi range.
The switch we sell is just such a device. I recommend that it
be wired as shown in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/oilpwarn.pdf
where a light a perhaps a buzzer annunciates low oil pressure.
The BIGGEST value of this light and noise maker is to
avoid walking away from the airplane with the master or
essential bus alternate feed switches left on.
Of course, the other side of the switch operates the
hourmeter . . . it's reasonable to assume that if the
light is OFF, the other side of the switch is closed
and the hourmeter is powered. This doesn't guarantee
that it is running. The hour meter is powered directly
from the battery bus while the light/buzzer is powered
from the e-bus . . . the hour meter fuse could be open
and you wouldn't know it.
Our rental aircraft all had Hobbs meters on panel and
we used the reading for calculating rental charges. Some
hour meters have annunciators on the front that show
they are powered and operating.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: duplicate trim switches. |
>
>I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near
>the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice
>gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an
>experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his
>needs.
>Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res).
What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system
so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a
hazardous or even uncomfortable position?
If the trim system IS that powerful, does it have TOO much
authority or speed with respect to convenient operation
of the airplane?
It's been my experience that "novices" are so timid that they
tend not to input enough force to initially control the airplane.
They're not likely to be pushing lots of buttons either. You
may not be a CFI but when you offer the controls to anyone,
you need to take on that posture. Explain things, follow through,
be attentive to what's going on, be ready to take it back if
necessary. Would you want an instructor to "disable" any
features on your side of the airplane because of his
uncertainty as to what you will do?
I'd put the same switches on the right side and then teach
guests how and when to use them.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: ELT going off |
>
>>
>> Michel, My Glasair did the same. Had to disconnect the phone cord that
>> connects the ACK ELT to the remote panel for testing the thing. Seems RF
>> was getting into the phone cord and setting it off. Andrew
>>
>*** Hmm, I forgot about the front panel console. If RF is getting in
>through that cord, you MIGHT be able to eliminate it by putting a ferrite
>on the cord. AKA "common mode choke". I think that such ferrites might
>be obtainable at your local Radio Shack. They come in two halves, with
>some kind of clip to put them together. You put the two halves around the
>wire, close to the ELT. If one doesn't do it, try two. Or three. You
>can also increase the poweer of a ferrite by winding the cable through
>it for a turn.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
Jerry, do you have any notion as to why the ELT trigger system
is sensitive to RF intrusion? I'd think that hard switch contacts
operated by acceleration forces would be used to turn on an ELT . . .
I'm mystified that a product ostensibly tested to the TSO
for ELT's would have this difficulty. Has anyone talked to the
factory about this?
Folks, this makes three or four cases I can recall in the last
month were we mount enthusiastic discussions about how to deal
with the characteristics of a manufactured device . . . discussions
that can go on for days with nary a data point from the factory
quoted by anyone.
I'm seeing the same kind of phenomenon in problem discussions
at my workplace . . . so please don't feel that I'm trying to
paste pejorative labels on this group or any individual. In my
various assignments on the heavy iron, I've learned that it
is critical to get as far back as possible in the
design/fabrication and delivery trail for assistance with
root causes of difficulty.
I'm just wrapping up a task wherein I discovered a $10
change to a product 8 years ago that has generated over
$10,000,000 (yes . . . that's the right number of zeros!)
in warranty losses and untold damage to customer confidence.
These losses were accompanied with a great deal of discussion,
claims, counter-claims and finger pointing. The root cause
was based on a simple fact that was SOOOoooooo simple that
nobody was willing to carefully consider it.
Get on the manufacturer's website, talk to or e-mail customer
service. Get the phone number of a design engineer that has
responsibility for the product. If you find that you can't
ask the right questions or perhaps don't understand the
answers, then drop me a line and I'll get into the loop.
Any one of you can do this and get the ball rolling. Let's
throw away the crystal balls and learn to be real detectives.
It took me too many years to acquire these skills . . . we
in the Owner Built and Maintained Aircraft industry are
already doing much better than our bothers on the certified
side . . . can do better still.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Good Battery Article |
>
>Knew I'd seen this somewhere....
>
> http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
A well written and documented piece . . . I'm going to contact
the author for permission to .pdf the thing and keep it posted
on our website.
Bob . . .
( An inventor is simply a person who doesn't take his education )
( too seriously. We often say that the biggest job we have is )
( to teach a newly hired employee how to fail intelligently. )
( We have to train him to experiment over and over and to keep )
( on trying and failing until he learns what will work. )
( Charles Kettering )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Good Battery Article |
>
> >
> >Knew I'd seen this somewhere....
> >
> > http://www.landiss.com/battery.htm
> >
> > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
>
> A well written and documented piece . . . I'm going to contact
> the author for permission to .pdf the thing and keep it posted
> on our website.
>
*** Note the link at the bottom "Additional information can be found at
various places on the Internet", this leads to a "Car Battery FAQ", which
has even more useful information. The Bottom of the FAQ has a list of links
to battery manufacturers, charger manufacturers, and in general, more info
about batteries than any sane person would want or need :).
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: duplicate trim switches. |
> >I intend to have two switches. One for the left hand stick and one near
> >the centre of the panel within reach of the right seater. If a novice
> >gets some stick time I don't want a trim switch on his stick and if an
> >experienced pilot flies from that seat the panel switch will serve his
> >needs.
> >Rob W M Shipley RV9A wings. N919RV (Res).
>
> What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system
> so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a
> hazardous or even uncomfortable position?
The trim system on the Europa is very powerful (all flying tail) and also
very fast operating. Often a 1 second burst is enough to retrim and its
sometimes hard to trim accurately.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wesley & Susan Knettle <wsknettl(at)centurytel.net> |
Bob,
Thanks for the verbal lashing. Didn't realize my one sentence without 3
or 4 attached messages would generate a 4 paragraph dissortation. I only
wished to point out that the ELT should be located so far aft that it's
antenna's location wouldn't possibly interfere or conflict with the
nav-coms. My certificated aircraft comment was based on FAA 337
requirements which the experimentals don't need to putts with. I find
your site very helpful and informative even though I'm not a
homebuilder, I just ply my trade on certified airframes. (Or should I
call them factory built?)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: duplicate trim switches. |
>
>> What's the worst thing that can happen? Is your trim system
>> so powerful that inadvertent operation can put you in a
>> hazardous or even uncomfortable position?
>
>The trim system on the Europa is very powerful (all flying tail) and also
>very fast operating. Often a 1 second burst is enough to retrim and its
>sometimes hard to trim accurately.
Which suggests that some consideration to design
changes are in order. Many kits have designed too
much authority into the pitch trim travel and/or
aerodynamics. Lots of electric trim systems run
too quickly for convenient and accurate control of
trim.
If it were my airplane, I'd find the two extremes of pitch
trim that accommodate the full range of gross weights and
weight/balance that I'm likely to encounter. Then install
hard mechanical stops such that under no circumstances
will the trim system be driven to any point outside those
limits. The next step is to adjust the speed of the electric
trim such that a .3 to .5 second blip on the trim switch
will produce a barely perceptible trim change at cruise
speeds. If this is also too slow for adequate trim speed
in the approach configuration, then a two speed system
can be easily implemented by installing some form of
electrical power regulator.
More than one accident has befallen the amateur airplane
builder because these simple steps (required on all
certified ships) were not taken to prevent a trim system
failure or accidental switch operation from becoming
a disaster. A kitfox builder I know totalled his relatively
new airplane when a stuck trim switch drove pitch
forces to unexpected levels on takeoff . . . being
a skittery tail dragger, the distraction in pitch
compounded his directional control problems. The
airplane went off the runway and down over a rocky
embankment.
This is a simple thing to do on your airplane during
the 25-40 hour fly-off . . . don't just bore holes
in the sky . . . find out EVERYTHING there is to know
about your airplane and get effective chains installed
on the dogs that can bite . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Bob,
>Thanks for the verbal lashing. Didn't realize my one sentence without 3
>or 4 attached messages would generate a 4 paragraph dissortation. I only
>wished to point out that the ELT should be located so far aft that it's
>antenna's location wouldn't possibly interfere or conflict with the
>nav-coms.
sorry if I came on too strong . . . people who have
known me for years have learned to put up with my
tirades against ignorant faith in authority and/or
regulation when it comes to physics and common
sense. Words like "requirements" and "certified"
are real hot-buttons with me. An ignorant public
buys off on too much stuff offered as state-of-the-art
products because they are blessed by equally ignorant
regulatory agencies.
I understand your concerns and I recognize that all
you have to go on is what is handed down through
'ol mechanic's tales or manufacturer's fondest wishes
as spelled out in their installation instructions.
I'm just trying to get people to be skeptical of instructions
that have no data . . . like "antenna's location wouldn't
possibly interfere or conflict" . . . what does that
mean?
Please understand while an army travels on its
stomach, a technology moves forward on its
numbers. I'm doing my best to encourage precise
speech as the path to real understanding. I've learned
more about systems design and critical thinking working
the homebuilts than I ever did working in the factories.
> My certificated aircraft comment was based on FAA 337
>requirements which the experimentals don't need to putz with. I find
>your site very helpful and informative even though I'm not a
>homebuilder, I just ply my trade on certified airframes. (Or should I
>call them factory built?)
"Factory built" works . . . I call 'em "heavy iron" in
recognition of the fact that a lot of what they carry
around in the name of safety and/or regulatory correctness
costs more, adds no value, and may even degrade safety
-and- performance.
Welcome to the Aero-Electric List . . . nobody here will
hold your career against you! My daytime job too is hammering
on the big iron birds . . . then I come home to have fun
with real airplanes.
Bob . . .
------------------------------------------------------
< "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of >
< thinking we used when we created them." >
< Albert Einstein >
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Coaxial Cables |
Thanks, Randy.
Bob also answered my question. I'm convinced.
Richard Dudley
Do no archive
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> > Is there reason for selecting the more expensive 50 ohm coax instead of
> > the garden varieties for comm, nav or GPS? I've read that, in any case
> > the stranded center conductor os preferred over the solid. In the ACS
> > catalog they indicate that the RG-400U is for certificated aircraft and
> > the RG-58U is only for experimental. Is there a significant difference
> > in reliability or losses?
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Richard Dudley
>
> Yes, as far as I'm concerned there are compelling reasons for selecting
> RG-400U. Bob Nuckolls has explained the difference, which I tried to find to
> include here but apparently have misplaced. If you search his site I'm sure
> you'll find it somewhere... www.aeroelectric.com.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, N558RL, 54 hrs.
> www.rv-8.com
> Home Wing VAF
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
Subject: | Military stick grip |
Hi Bob & List
I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to
get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the
shielded wire from the trigger switch?
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Military stick grip |
If it's a real military grip, almost all of the buttons/switches are
held in by Allen head sockets. Then, put some heat shrink around the
portion of the shielding that runs down the stick.
Boyd.
Ed Perry wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob & List
>
> I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
> chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
> that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
> coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
> shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to
> get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the
> shielded wire from the trigger switch?
>
> Ed Perry
> edperry64(at)netzero.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Military stick grip |
No allen heads here. It is military. It has a 2 position trigger, 4 position
coolie hat and a single on/off switch next to the coolie hat labeled Landing
Light. It has one screw with a nut around it coming out the right side, that
cannot be moved. One tension screw on top for the trigger pull and the
trigger is held in by a pin that was melted into the case for the hinge. I
doubt I will be able to get inside it without destroying it.
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Boyd C. Braem <bcbraem(at)home.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Military stick grip
>
> If it's a real military grip, almost all of the buttons/switches are
> held in by Allen head sockets. Then, put some heat shrink around the
> portion of the shielding that runs down the stick.
>
> Boyd.
>
> Ed Perry wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Bob & List
> >
> > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
> > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
> > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
> > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
> > shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to
> > get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the
> > shielded wire from the trigger switch?
> >
> > Ed Perry
> > edperry64(at)netzero.net
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Subject: | Re: Military stick grip |
> > Ed Perry wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Bob & List
> > >
> > > I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
> > > chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
> > > that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
> > > coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
> > > shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to
> > > get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the
> > > shielded wire from the trigger switch?
> > >
> > > Ed Perry
> > > edperry64(at)netzero.net
I would just connect your wire to the wire coming out of the
grip. All the PTT switch does is ground a 'sense' line
coming from the radio.
If you have problems (very unlikely), you can always find
some scrap shielded cable that's larger diameter than what
you are using, pull the center conductors out of it, & slide
the shield/insulation that's left over the wires entering
the grip. Then just solder the shields together to supply
shielding up into the grip.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Military stick grip |
>
> Hi Bob & List
>
> I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
> chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
> that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
> coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
> shielded wire to that what will happen?
*** I think it'll be just fine. I don't understand why people use shielded
wire for PTT's anyway, it's just a DC control line. Maybe Bob knows better?
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Bob,
Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include LOM wireing
diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are available.
Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards Oshkosh) has
extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by the radios.
The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to your Z1 diagram,
shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead
conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto.
The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the
magnetos.
The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator is active. The
radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in the fiberglass
shell.
I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if you have any
suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks that the p-lead/mag
switch setup is suspect.
I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring
diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European
style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring
of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago.
They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone
who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing.
The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting
the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the
noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm
mystified as to why you're having this problem.
If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll
refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and
ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator
(MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that
this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields
are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds
a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal
strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While
all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed
successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding
techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are
not responsible for the noise problem.
I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise
suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto.
Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary?
Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type
recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors
from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's
relevant but it would be good to know.
I am planning to do a an addition to the power
distribution diagrams that is specific to the
LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too
bad that they continue to use a brush type generator
but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient
and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator
depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa
1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at
least replace this critter with a solid state design.
Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect
that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Military stick grip |
>
>Hi Bob & List
>
>I have a B-7A stick grip that I am planning on using in my RV-8. I have
>chosen the MicroAir 760 and it requires shielded wire for the PTT switch
>that will be located in the grip. There is approx. 5" of regular wire
>coming out the bottom of the grip that is not shielded. If I attach
>shielded wire to that what will happen? Does anybody know of a way to
>get to the trigger switch in these grips, as in be able to install the
>shielded wire from the trigger switch?
>
>Ed Perry
>edperry64(at)netzero.net
Check out the wiring diagrams for the MicroAir 760VHF
as posted on my website. Download:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v1.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/audio/760v2.pdf
You will find these drawings easier to read than those
supplied with the radio. Further, they do NOT call out
shielded wire for the PTT line . . . shielding of
this line is not necessary.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Light |
>Bob:
>
>Any thought on using a light to indicate a blown current limiter, such as on
>a Learjet? It seems simple to fabricate, I would like to explore this on my
>RV-8 for the alternator B lead, as well as main bus feed.
Why would you want to do this? If you have a low-voltage warning
light, it will illuminate seconds after the fuse in series with the
alternator opens. The ONLY reason this fuse will ever open is if
the wire between the starter contactor and the alternator has
hard faulted to ground (very rare) or you have a pair of diodes
in the alternator shorted (also very rare) . . .
I can see no value in annunciating this event when you'll
have so many solid indications of the event from other sources.
Main bus feed limiter ???? why are you putting one in?
Just 'cause a Lear's got one doesn't mean it's good for
every airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Ground strap ? |
>Hello 'lectric Bob,
>
>I happened onto your website during one of my nightly airplane surfing sessions.
If you have time perhaps you could answer a question that I have been curious
about for years. Why are ground straps usually fabricated out of a flat braided
conductor? There must be a reason. Thanks!
>
>Jack Horton
>Columbus, Ohio
They need to be VERY flexible . . . they can be either flat or round,
it doesn't matter. But they do need to be made of lots of very fine
wire so that engine vibration with respect to airframe doesn't
start breaking strands. You could use a piece of 2AWG welding cable
too . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Power Distribution Diagram for LOM |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include LOM wireing
>diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are available.
Why wait? I spent an hour modifying an existing
diagram and posted it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lom.pdf
Since you're working with an LOM, you might do me
the favor of comparing this drawing with your factory
documentation . . . looking for errors of wiring,
part numbers, and artifacts of the original
14V alternator system that should have been pulled
off.
600W is a fairly hefty generator. This would be
just over 22Amps. In a 28V system, you should be
able to run about anything you'll need.
I've added ov protection for both the airplane
AND the generator. If wired per the factory
drawings, if the regulator sticks and even if
you successfully disconnect the alternator from
the bus, the ov condition will still toast the
generator's field. Hence the addition of two
relays controlled by the panel mounted DC Master.
If anyone else on the list is working with the
LOM engine, let's talk. You guys can help trim up
this drawing for publication in Revision 10.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/08/01 |
I've also been told that a flat braided wire conducts very high frequencies
better than a small round conductor. Exactly why a battery ground needs
this feature is not so sure. Certainly you do want the connection between
the "chassis" and engine to be good at high frequencies. some cars have
ground straps to the hood and these occasionally are braided - supposedly
for the same reason. Although I suspect Bob is right and the real reason is
flexibility. Observe the new Aerosance Electronic ignition and they use a
braided conductor to ground two parts of the system to each other - for EMI
reasons.
>I happened onto your website during one of my nightly airplane surfing
sessions. If you have time perhaps you could answer a question that I have
been curious about for years. Why are ground straps usually fabricated out
of a flat braided conductor? There must be a reason. Thanks!
>
>Jack Horton
>Columbus, Ohio
They need to be VERY flexible . . . they can be either flat or round,
it doesn't matter. But they do need to be made of lots of very fine
wire so that engine vibration with respect to airframe doesn't
start breaking strands. You could use a piece of 2AWG welding cable
too . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Cartwright" <ccart(at)stanford.edu> |
What is a simple/reliable way to join two wires that will go into a Pidge
connector?
a) Should I just put them both in a larger connector and crimp?
b)Should I strip a long area of one wire and solder them together, heat
shrink and then put
one wire in a connector to be crimped?
c)Other method?
Thanks,
Chris
Palo Alto, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
>
>What is a simple/reliable way to join two wires that will go into a Pidge
>connector?
>a) Should I just put them both in a larger connector and crimp?
Yes . . .
>b)Should I strip a long area of one wire and solder them together, heat
>shrink and then put
>one wire in a connector to be crimped?
No . . .
>c)Other method?
No . . .
It's very common practice to put multiple strands into a single
crimp. In fact, I just finished a design were up to 8 22AWG wires
will be joined together in one end of a yellow PIDG splice and
a 12AWG wire will carry the pathway on from the other side.
Just make sure all strands go in together, all insulations
have to be inside the metal sleeve of the insulation grip.
A good tug on the wire bundle (and individual condutors)
confirms that all conductors are included in the wire
grip crimp. . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
I seem to recall (from I don't know where) that you should only do this with
odd numbers, 1, 3, 5 etc.
Bob Marshall
It's very common practice to put multiple strands into a single
crimp. In fact, I just finished a design were up to 8 22AWG wires
will be joined together in one end of a yellow PIDG splice and
a 12AWG wire will carry the pathway on from the other side.
Just make sure all strands go in together, all insulations
have to be inside the metal sleeve of the insulation grip.
A good tug on the wire bundle (and individual condutors)
confirms that all conductors are included in the wire
grip crimp. . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Williams/SBW<sbw(at)sbw.org> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily:
1. Strip the wires.
2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out.
3. Lay the fans on top of one another.
4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave.
5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire.
6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector.
7. Crimp.
This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the
new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector.
But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the crimp
because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands
packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an
optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a gas-tight
piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush as
nicely.
Still, I've always had good results with this technique.
Steve Williams
http://www.sbw.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
I'm using AMP CPC connectors that use #20 MIL pins/sockets (for 20 AWG).
I need to run 16 AWG thru so I was going to solder the 16 AWG to two 20 AWG
wires that can be crimped in the pins for the connector. Would I be better
off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to
two 20 AWG instead of soldering?
I was going to switch to the series 1 CPC that has larger pin sizes
available but I couldn't find the MIL pins for them so I'm sticking with the
series 2 CPC that only accept 20 ga or less. Many a sleepless nite debating
about using connectors vs straight wires and what type of connectors and
pins. Any better ideas? We use EDAC at work and they have really nice
crimped pins but the crimper and pins for the AMP CPC series 2 are the same
as D-subs so it's convenient.
I think it will only be for the one starter relay wire but the fuel pump
and electronic ignition wires are also 16 AWG. They only draw 1.5 to 3 amps
so I'm not sure why they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20
AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto itself
and use a blue double-crimp butt splice?
Gary K.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Williams/SBW <sbw(at)sbw.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp?
>
> At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily:
>
> 1. Strip the wires.
>
> 2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out.
>
> 3. Lay the fans on top of one another.
>
> 4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave.
>
> 5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire.
>
> 6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector.
>
> 7. Crimp.
>
> This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the
> new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector.
>
> But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the
crimp
> because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands
> packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an
> optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a
gas-tight
> piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush
as
> nicely.
>
> Still, I've always had good results with this technique.
>
> Steve Williams
> http://www.sbw.org/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's
opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post.
Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments?
It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have
a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas
or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices
(com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. These instruments
are quite
expensive, while shock mounting stuff is not expensive both in terms of
weight and cost. Also, it seems like the shock mount makes it easy to get
at the instruments by easily pulling out the mounted panel. However, I
see very few builders who shock mount their instruments. Why?
Is there a definitive answer about this, or is it just a matter of personal
taste?
Thanks,
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Shock mounting |
>
>
> I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's
> opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post.
>
> Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments?
>
> It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have
> a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas
> or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices
> (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving.
*** OTOH, some of those mechanical instruments are _dependent_ on vibration
to keep them moving freely. In fact, I think one of the tests in the TSO
for altimeters and VSI's for example, is to test them to make sure that they
will work withOUT vibration.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Shock mounting |
This is a problem in sailplanes, where, sometimes, a vibrator has to be
attached to the instrument panel to get the analog needles to move. The
newer gyros seem to be free of this problem.
About 2 yrs. ago I sent an inquiry to RC Allen, asking if I needed to
shock/vibration mount their electric gyros. They replied "that it is
not really necessary".
Boyd.
Jerome Kaidor wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like Bob's
> > opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post.
> >
> > Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments?
> >
> > It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments that have
> > a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments or gas
> > or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state devices
> > (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving.
>
> *** OTOH, some of those mechanical instruments are _dependent_ on vibration
> to keep them moving freely. In fact, I think one of the tests in the TSO
> for altimeters and VSI's for example, is to test them to make sure that they
> will work withOUT vibration.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
>
>I seem to recall (from I don't know where) that you should only do this with
>odd numbers, 1, 3, 5 etc.
>
>Bob Marshall
Haven't heard that one . . . numbers of wires doesn't
make any difference. Keep in mind that when the wire
grip is closed down on the strands, they become a single
piece of metal . . . meaning that the joint is gas-tight.
Nothing in the way of moisture or corrosive gasses can
get in . . . When that much pressure is involved, it
matters not how many wires you started with.
At school we were taught a way to do this a bit more easily:
1. Strip the wires.
2. Untwist the strands of each wire and fan them out.
3. Lay the fans on top of one another.
4. Apply a little finger pressure to get the strands to interleave.
5. Twist the fans back into a single, larger wire.
6. Insert the new, larger wire into the sleeve of the connector.
7. Crimp.
This is a bit easier if you strip the wire longer than usual. Clip the
new, larger wire back to the proper length for the connector.
But perhaps Bob will tell us that this compromises the quality of the crimp
because twisting the wires by hand doesn't create a bundle of strands
packed the right way. Manufactured wire has the strands arranged in an
optimum packing pattern which, when crushed by the crimp, forms a gas-tight
piece of metal. Strands randomly twisted together by hand may not crush as
nicely.
Still, I've always had good results with this technique.
Steve Williams
http://www.sbw.org/
You almost cannot miss getting a good joint as long as all
of the strands can be coaxed into position in the terminal's
wire grip volume . . . probably the easiest lay-up for acquiring
a gas-tight joint is to have all the strands laying perfectly
flat and parallel . . . but if twisting them together helps
you get all of them in together, I don't think it hurts.
When putting a lot of strands in the same crimp, I'll sometimes
bundle the conductors using a length of rubber banding to get
a really tight grip on the bundle and prevent one conductor from
sliding with respect to the others. If all the butt ends of
the conductors are even when you bundle them up, then the funnel
shaped entry of the better grade terminals (PIDG or Waldom
Avicrimp) will guide them into the right spot for crimping.
Yes, the strip length might want to be a bit longer . . .
say half again.
I'm using AMP CPC connectors that use #20 MIL pins/sockets (for 20 AWG).
I need to run 16 AWG thru so I was going to solder the 16 AWG to two 20 AWG
wires that can be crimped in the pins for the connector. Would I be better
off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to
two 20 AWG instead of soldering?
No, your on the right track . . . BUT . . . make the 20AWG
segments some rather significant length (like about a foot
if you can) before you bring them together for joining to the
16AWG. This is to put significant milliohms of wire in series
with the two pins . . . much more milliohms than the resistance
of the pins themselves. This extra resistance makes sure that
the pins share the load. You only need to do this on one
side of the connector . . . or perhaps 6" "ballast" resistors
on both sides?
I was going to switch to the series 1 CPC that has larger pin sizes
available but I couldn't find the MIL pins for them so I'm sticking with the
series 2 CPC that only accept 20 ga or less. Many a sleepless nite debating
about using connectors vs straight wires and what type of connectors and
pins. Any better ideas? We use EDAC at work and they have really nice
crimped pins but the crimper and pins for the AMP CPC series 2 are the same
as D-subs so it's convenient.
Not a bad choice. I'm building a power distribution system for
a new target that will take 40 amps through d-sub pins (10
pins paralleled with 22AWG/12" ballast resistors to force
the pins into a load sharing mode.
I think it will only be for the one starter relay wire but the fuel pump
and electronic ignition wires are also 16 AWG. They only draw 1.5 to 3 amps
so I'm not sure why they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20
AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto itself
and use a blue double-crimp butt splice?
Hmmmm . . . in this case, I'd splice onto them with 20AWG wires
at the appliance and continue on through your connector with
a single strand of 20AWG wire on one pin. Ignore the size of wire
that comes out of the black boxes . . . wire it up with conductors
and other materials rated to the task. Use a blue butt splice and
double the 20AWG conductor back on itself.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Shock mounting |
In ultra-lights it is common practice just so you can read the needles,
not so much to protect them. In aircraft they might have some reason for
it or they wouldn't spend all the money to have the shock mounts
manufactured and installed in the aircraft. My flight instruments are
shock mounted ( to protect them from my landings) my engine instruments
are hard mounted.
just an opinion mindya, as per request
Jim
>
>
>
> I have asked this question on 2 other lists, but I would also like
> Bob's
> opinion (or anyone else, as well.) Please forgive the cross-post.
>
> Is it a good idea or not to shock mount panel instruments?
>
> It makes some sense to me that any of the "needle" type instruments
> that have
> a precision bearing or jeweled movement (like the steam instruments
> or gas
> or oil gauges) are vulnerable to vibration, where the solid state
> devices
> (com/nav/gps or engine monitors) would be more forgiving. These
> instruments
> are quite
> expensive, while shock mounting stuff is not expensive both in terms
> of
> weight and cost. Also, it seems like the shock mount makes it easy
> to get
> at the instruments by easily pulling out the mounted panel. However,
> I
> see very few builders who shock mount their instruments. Why?
> Is there a definitive answer about this, or is it just a matter of
> personal
> taste?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Liming
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary K" <flyink(at)efortress.com> |
Subject: | Re: re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
Bob, thanks very much for the answers. It's very reassuring to get some
feedback. But I'm still a little confused - I'm sure it's just nit-picking
on different techniques but you recommended splicing verses soldering for
multiple conductors before. But below, you recommend soldering 16 AWG to
two 20 AWG, but splicing from one 16 AWG to one 20 AWG (with the foldback on
the wire). I would have guessed the other way around. It seems like either
way would work fine but if your experience shows otherwise I'd rather follow
your recommendations.
Thanks again, Gary K.
> Would I be better
> off using blue double-crimp butt splices to get the single 16 AWG down to
> two 20 AWG instead of soldering?
>
> No, your on the right track . . . BUT . .
> ....they come with 16 AWG. Could I step these down to 20
> AWG and if so, what would be the best way? Fold back the 20 AWG onto
itself
> and use a blue double-crimp butt splice?
>
> Hmmmm . . . in this case, I'd splice onto them with 20AWG wires
> at the appliance and continue on through your connector with
> a single strand of 20AWG wire on one pin. Ignore the size of wire
> that comes out of the black boxes . . . wire it up with conductors
> and other materials rated to the task. Use a blue butt splice and
> double the 20AWG conductor back on itself.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Greg Amy <grega(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | AMP Fusion Tape? |
What's the general thoughts of the AMP Waterproof Fusion Tape (Manf
#605262-1)? I'm considering it a companion to heat shrink tubing, especially
on larger applications like battery cables. I ordered a couple rolls from
Newark to check it out and I'm quite impressed.
This is a rubber, stretchable, non-adhesive tape and it sticks to itself
quite well. It's an insulator and is removable if necessary. Hell, I even
tried it on a leaky garden hose and it worked great! I like this a hell of a
lot better than regular adhesive electrical tape.
Unless I hear of any longer-term problems with it I may use it quite a bit
for insulating wires and blocks.
Greg Amy
Milford, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Multiple conductors into single crimp? |
>
>Bob, thanks very much for the answers. It's very reassuring to get some
>feedback. But I'm still a little confused - I'm sure it's just nit-picking
>on different techniques but you recommended splicing verses soldering for
>multiple conductors before. But below, you recommend soldering 16 AWG to
>two 20 AWG, but splicing from one 16 AWG to one 20 AWG (with the foldback on
>the wire). I would have guessed the other way around. It seems like either
>way would work fine but if your experience shows otherwise I'd rather follow
>your recommendations.
>
>Thanks again, Gary K.
Check the indentation of the various paragraphs
in my reply. One of the readers uses the word
"solder" . . . I didn't. There's nothing wrong
with solder . . . solder and crimped joints will
both make entirely satisfactory joints in conductors.
They simply require different tools, materials and
skills. There is no difference in their respective
service performance.
The reference to "foldback" speaks to an occasional
need to increase the number of strands inside the wire
grip area of a crimped joint to bring the stranding
up to a volume the terminal was designed for.
The reference to foldback was made in a discussion
about dealing with the OVERSIZED leadwire provided
on one of products to be installed. A fuel pump that
needed less than 3 amps to run was fitted with a 16AWG
leadwire. Are you obligated to carry 16AWG all the way
back to the bus? No . . .
You COULD drop all the way down to 22AWG wire . . .
in which case, soldering a 22AWG feeder to the
16AWG pigtail would be one way to do it. In
this particular case, the connector was rated for
20-22AWG wire. I suggested that a blue butt
splice (16-14AWG) could be used but a 20AWG wire
in one end would have to be doubled back to increase
the amount of copper in the wire grip area . . .
Take a peek at this picture.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/22-16sp.jpg
Knife splices make a neat way to joint dissimilar
wires. In this case, the fuel pump could be fitted
with a blue knife splice, the feeder from the
bus could be as small as 22AWG . . . so put a
red knife splice on it. Red and blue knife
splices will interconnect . . . put a piece
of heat shrink over the joint and you're done.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: AMP Fusion Tape? |
>
>What's the general thoughts of the AMP Waterproof Fusion Tape (Manf
>#605262-1)? I'm considering it a companion to heat shrink tubing, especially
>on larger applications like battery cables. I ordered a couple rolls from
>Newark to check it out and I'm quite impressed.
>
>This is a rubber, stretchable, non-adhesive tape and it sticks to itself
>quite well. It's an insulator and is removable if necessary. Hell, I even
>tried it on a leaky garden hose and it worked great! I like this a hell of a
>lot better than regular adhesive electrical tape.
>
>Unless I hear of any longer-term problems with it I may use it quite a bit
>for insulating wires and blocks.
>
>Greg Amy
>Milford, CT
This kind of product has been around for awhile.
We use tons of it at RAC. You can also buy
small rolls of it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/slikstik/chem.html#s894
I just talked with Todd at B&C and he's going to
look into stocking bigger rolls as well.
It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant
to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under
the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle
where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector.
I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit
the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need
for any extra strain relief.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: AMP Fusion Tape? |
In a message dated 7/12/01 12:37:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
<< It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant
to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under
the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle
where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector.
I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit
the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need
for any extra strain relief.
>>
Bob,
Is this center line silicone rubber tape?
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: AMP Fusion Tape? |
>
>In a message dated 7/12/01 12:37:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
><< It's not a TOUGH tape but it is very resistant
> to heat, oil, ozone, etc. Good stuff to use under
> the cowl. I also use it to wrap a wire bundle
> where it exits the backshell of a d-sub connnector.
> I can use it to build up bundle diameter to fit
> the backshell exit hole and eliminate the need
> for any extra strain relief.
> >>
>Bob,
>Is this center line silicone rubber tape?
>Dale Ensing
That's another common name for it. I've seen it offered
with and without the center guideline but it's the
same tape.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Bob,
My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two
50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I
turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
Resetting the breaker has the same results.
Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
Marvin Mixon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:52 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise
>
>
> III"
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include
> LOM wireing
> diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are
> available.
>
> Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards
> Oshkosh) has
> extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by
> the radios.
> The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to
> your Z1 diagram,
> shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead
> conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto.
> The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the
> magnetos.
> The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator
> is active. The
> radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in
> the fiberglass
> shell.
>
> I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if
> you have any
> suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks
> that the p-lead/mag
> switch setup is suspect.
>
> I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring
> diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European
> style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring
> of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago.
> They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone
> who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing.
>
> The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting
> the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the
> noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm
> mystified as to why you're having this problem.
>
> If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll
> refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and
> ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator
> (MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that
> this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields
> are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds
> a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal
> strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While
> all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed
> successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding
> techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are
> not responsible for the noise problem.
>
> I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise
> suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto.
> Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary?
> Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type
> recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors
> from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's
> relevant but it would be good to know.
>
> I am planning to do a an addition to the power
> distribution diagrams that is specific to the
> LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too
> bad that they continue to use a brush type generator
> but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient
> and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator
> depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa
> 1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at
> least replace this critter with a solid state design.
>
> Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect
> that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ( "I have not failed. I've just found )
> ( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
> ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
Subject: | RCT-3 D-Sub crimp tool |
Bob,
This tool works great on the standard pins. I notice that the crimp on
the high density pins is way at the end of the barrel, not a good crimp
at all. The high density pin goes noticeably further into the tool. What
is weird is that the high density pins, while smaller in diameter, seem
to be the same length as the standard pins. So how could it go further
in???
Is there a different insert piece available to adapt the tool for the
high density pins or is a different crimper required? The crimps are
really unsatisfactory according to my local radio shop so I need some
kind of a solution.
Jim Bean
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Marvin Mixon wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
>
> My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two
> 50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I
> turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
> Resetting the breaker has the same results.
>
> Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
>
> Marvin Mixon
>
2X50=100watts/12volts=>8amps
Your 5 amp breaker is too small. Is your wire?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Marvin;
Two 50 watt lamps is a total of 100 watts. 100 watts operating on 12
volts draws 8-1/3 amps. A 5 amp breaker should trip after a short time
when you are drawing this much current through it. A ten amp breaker
would be more appropriate. If you have wired this circuit for only 5
amps, what about your wire size? Is it adequate?
Before you simply change the breaker, make sure the wire is up to the
load also.
Bob McC
>Bob,
>My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of
two
>50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter.
When I
>turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
>Resetting the breaker has the same results.
>Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
>Marvin Mixon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
100W / 12 Volts = 8.3 Amps.
Yes, I'd say 5A is way too low. Remember, you probably have an start-up (inrush)
current
higher than 8.3 amps.
Finn
Marvin Mixon wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two
> 50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I
> turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
> Resetting the breaker has the same results.
>
> Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
>
> Marvin Mixon
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> > L. Nuckolls, III
> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:52 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise
> >
> >
> > III"
> >
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Emil David of Moravia Inc. has informed me that you may include
> > LOM wireing
> > diagrams in your book. I will apply for a revision when they are
> > available.
> >
> > Currently my LOM powered Glastar (12 hours and counting towards
> > Oshkosh) has
> > extreme noise radiating from the p-leads and being received by
> > the radios.
> > The p-leads are connected to a pair of switches according to
> > your Z1 diagram,
> > shields grounded at the magneto with the mag switch connecting the p-lead
> > conductor to the p-lead shield to ground the magneto.
> > The noise in the radio is eliminated when the p-leads are removed from the
> > magnetos.
> > The radio noise is on the volume control and the Rx annunciator
> > is active. The
> > radio antennae are a foil dipole and a Bob Archer both buried in
> > the fiberglass
> > shell.
> >
> > I have ordered a pair of p-lead noise suppressors and wonder if
> > you have any
> > suggestions. Emil is confidant in the LOM product and thinks
> > that the p-lead/mag
> > switch setup is suspect.
> >
> > I have received copies of the factory supplied wiring
> > diagrams from Emil . . . they're done in classic European
> > style that I've not seen since I slogged through the rewiring
> > of a Volkswagen restoration project about 25 years ago.
> > They're pretty hard to follow . . . especially for someone
> > who doesn't make a living at this sort of thing.
> >
> > The fact that you can make the noise go away by diconnecting
> > the 'P' leads at the engine is a good data point . . . the
> > noise is indeed being propagated out on the p-leads. I'm
> > mystified as to why you're having this problem.
> >
> > If you have the same factory wiring data I have, then I'll
> > refer you to a drawing titled "SCHEME No. 7: Starting and
> > ignition" Have you installed the starting vibrator
> > (MB5) and it's associated relay (B2)? You will not that
> > this drawing is pretty explicit as to how the shields
> > are treated. Note that they are taken to local grounds
> > a the engine, adjacent to the MB5 relay, at Z3 terminal
> > strip -AND- at the ignition B3 ignition switch. While
> > all of this extra grounding has probably been deemed
> > successful, I am certain that the minimized grounding
> > techniques suggested in Figure Z1 of the connection are
> > not responsible for the noise problem.
> >
> > I note that SCHEME No. 7 illustrates two noise
> > suppressors (MB9), one installed on each magneto.
> > Has Emil told you that these are seldom necessary?
> > Are the noise suppressors you've ordered of the type
> > recommended by LOM or are they generic p-lead suppressors
> > from an aviation parts supplier? I'm not sure it's
> > relevant but it would be good to know.
> >
> > I am planning to do a an addition to the power
> > distribution diagrams that is specific to the
> > LOM engine and its supplied accessories. It's too
> > bad that they continue to use a brush type generator
> > but at least it's a 4-pole device . . . more efficient
> > and possibility of longer brush life. The regulator
> > depicted is an electro-mechanical device using circa
> > 1940 technology. It would be nice if they would at
> > least replace this critter with a solid state design.
> >
> > Let's get your noise problem whipped . . . I suspect
> > that filters at the magnetos are going to do the job.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > ( "I have not failed. I've just found )
> > ( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
> > ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com
> >
> >
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | RE: Landing light breaker trips . . . |
>
>Bob,
>
>My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of two
>50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter. When I
>turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
>Resetting the breaker has the same results.
>
>Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
>
>Marvin Mixon
Much too small. A 50 watt lamp draws about 4A all by itself.
The system should be wired with a 10A breaker. The wire
feeding this system should be 18AWG or bigger.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: RCT-3 D-Sub crimp tool |
>
>Bob,
>This tool works great on the standard pins. I notice that the crimp on
>the high density pins is way at the end of the barrel, not a good crimp
>at all. The high density pin goes noticeably further into the tool. What
>is weird is that the high density pins, while smaller in diameter, seem
>to be the same length as the standard pins. So how could it go further
>in???
The pin positioning inserts need to be modified as
we receive the tool . . . I've written the manufacturer
several times and finally gave up getting the tool corrected.
As received, the tools put the crimp right at the opening
to the wire grip. Since the pin hole is drilled, I suspect
there's a conical bottom to the hole that allows a smaller
HD pin to set deeper in the positioner.
>Is there a different insert piece available to adapt the tool for the
>high density pins or is a different crimper required? The crimps are
>really unsatisfactory according to my local radio shop so I need some
>kind of a solution.
If you have access to a lathe, you can make a second positioner
by duplicating the one you have for it's external dimensions.
Then drill the pin-hole in small steps until it positions the
wire grip crimp in the right place.
Not sure how B&C is cutting the positioners, I tried to make
them grip the standard pin in the lower third rather than
centered . . . this moved the crimp on the HD pin to the
upper third. You could try cutting the standard positioner's
seating ledge down just enough to give you a bell-mouth
opening at the end of an HD pin . . . the crimp doesn't
have to be centered . . . it just can't push sharp edged
metal down against the strands. When barely correct for
HD pins, I think you'll still get a good crimp on a standard
pin.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: 2-5 Switches for Mags . . . |
>Hi Bob,
>
>Using the 2-5 switches for mags, left/starter. I have rang out the
>switch and find it does not match the Aeroelectric Figure Z1 which I am
>using on my RV-6.
>
>The drawing shows 2-3 and 5-6 in the off position, while I have
>measured 1-2 and 5-6 when off (switch down).
>
>Drawing shows 4-5 and 1-2 in the on position, I measure 2-3 and 5-6 on
>(switch centered), with 2-3 and 4-5 in the start (momentary, up)
>position, breaking the 5-6 connection.
>
>What am I missing?
Sounds like you have a 2-50 switch . . . not a 2-5.
The 2-50 has progressive transfer. With the toggle in the
anti-keyway (full down) position, it's just like a 2-5 with
connections between 2-3 and 5-6. Moving to the mid position
transfers only the left (rear view) switch transfers making
contact between 1-3 and leaving the 5-6 contact alone. Moving
to the keyway (full up momentary) position transfers the right
switch making 5-6 go open and closing the 4-5. This switch
is described as DP3T on-on-(on). The schematic symbol for
a 2-50 switch is depicted in Figure Z1 for the FUEL BOOST
ON/OFF/PRIME switch.
On the other hand, a 2-5 switch (the one you're supposed
to be using on the mags), With the toggle in the anti-keyway
(full down) position, it connects 2-3 and 5-6. Moving to the
mid position transfers both switches to an intermediate
off postion (no terminals connected to each other). Moving
to the keyway (full up momentary) position transfers both
switches making the 1-2 and 4-5 pairs. This switch
is described as DP3T on-off-(on). The schematic for a
2-5 is depicted in Figure Z1 for the right and left
magneto switches.
If you purchased 2-5's and got 2-50's instead, B&C will
exchange them for you . . . you'll also get a credit for
price difference.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Subject: | Master/Starter Relay |
I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the
power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?)
Thanks,
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
"AeroElectric List"
Subject: | Battery Wire Ends |
I'm doing the main cables from battery to the relays. I've got a three year
old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct
size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got
one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are
3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it
up but is this allowed?
Also I would like to put a 45 degree bend "up" on the lug so the cable
leaves the battery traveling up. Is this allowed? I test bent one and it
still appears solid and fits real well.
Do I have to get new lugs to remove the slop?
If I do shouldn't I downsize to #4 wire? (firewall battery)
How many amps is #4 wire rated for?
Thank-you
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Master/Starter Relay |
>
>I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the
>power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?)
>
>Thanks,
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
No, the main power terminals on the starter contactor
are independent. If you have a 3-terminal battery
contactor, one should be marked "BAT" or "B" . . .
this one would go to the battery. If you have a 4-terminal
battery contactor, you can wire the main terminals in
any configuration you like.
Be sure to add spike catcher diodes in the coil circuits.
These are illustrated in pictures of our products in
the parts catalog and in our wiring diagrams.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends |
>
>I'm doing the main cables from battery to the relays. I've got a three year
>old wiring Kit from Van. This has lots of #2 wire (heavy) and the correct
>size lugs with white rubber boots. My problem is at the battery. I've got
>one from a jetski and it has 1/4 inch posts. The inner size of Vans lugs are
>3/8 so there is a little slop. It goes away with washers and tightening it
>up but is this allowed?
it would probably work okay . . . I'd much rather see the
right terminal installed.
>Also I would like to put a 45 degree bend "up" on the lug so the cable
>leaves the battery traveling up. Is this allowed? I test bent one and it
>still appears solid and fits real well.
sure . . . you can form the lugs to accommodate wire
routing.
>Do I have to get new lugs to remove the slop?
not necessary but recommended
>If I do shouldn't I downsize to #4 wire? (firewall battery)
the only time you need 2AWG wire in an RV is when
the battery is behind the seats. Otherwise, 4AWG
is fine for the whole system. Irrespective of where
the battery is located, 4AWG jumpers from battery(-) to
ground and battery(+) to contactor are fine too. We
offer pre-assembled battery jumpers made from welding
cable . . . very soft and easy to work with. If it
were my airplane, I'd make new battery jumpers with
proper sized terminals and fabricate from 4AWG
welding cable.
>How many amps is #4 wire rated for?
Not so much continuous with respect to starting . . .
even 2AWG is rated for only 100A continuous. Cranking
will draw 200A plus but only for a few seconds.
Wire sizing in the cranking circuit is a function
of voltage drop and starter performance - wire
heating due to momentary overloading of conductors
is a secondary issue. 4AWG wire is fine for the
whole system as long as you don't have a long run
to a remotely mounted battery. If the battery is
up front, 4AWG is fine.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RION BOURGEOIS" <rion(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Master/Starter Relay |
Bob: does the little silver band on the spike catcher diodes on your
battery and alternator contactors go towards the positive or negative coil
terminal? Am I correct that to use the contactor for an alternator
contactor, I must remove the jumper wire? Thanx, Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:13 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master/Starter Relay
>
> >
> >I have Vans master and starter relays. Does it matter which way the
> >power goes through them? (as in right to left or left to right?)
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Norman Hunger
> >RV6A Delta BC
>
>
> No, the main power terminals on the starter contactor
> are independent. If you have a 3-terminal battery
> contactor, one should be marked "BAT" or "B" . . .
> this one would go to the battery. If you have a 4-terminal
> battery contactor, you can wire the main terminals in
> any configuration you like.
>
> Be sure to add spike catcher diodes in the coil circuits.
> These are illustrated in pictures of our products in
> the parts catalog and in our wiring diagrams.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ( "I have not failed. I've just found )
> ( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
> ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5
amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> McCallum
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:22 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOM magneto noise
>
>
>
>
> Marvin;
>
> Two 50 watt lamps is a total of 100 watts. 100 watts operating on 12
> volts draws 8-1/3 amps. A 5 amp breaker should trip after a short time
> when you are drawing this much current through it. A ten amp breaker
> would be more appropriate. If you have wired this circuit for only 5
> amps, what about your wire size? Is it adequate?
> Before you simply change the breaker, make sure the wire is up to the
> load also.
>
> Bob McC
>
>
> >Bob,
>
> >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and consists of
> two
> >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs meter.
> When I
> >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
> >Resetting the breaker has the same results.
>
> >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
>
> >Marvin Mixon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marvin Mixon" <mlmkittyhawk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | RE: Landing light breaker trips . . . |
Thanks Bob,
We live and learn.
Marvin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:16 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Landing light breaker trips . . .
>
>
> III"
>
>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >My landing light circuit is on a 5 amp circuit breaker and
> consists of two
> >50 watt bulbs. Also on this same breaker is the electric hobbs
> meter. When I
> >turn on the landing light the breaker will trip in about 30 seconds.
> >Resetting the breaker has the same results.
> >
> >Do you think I should conclude the 5 amp breaker is too small?
> >
> >Marvin Mixon
>
> Much too small. A 50 watt lamp draws about 4A all by itself.
> The system should be wired with a 10A breaker. The wire
> feeding this system should be 18AWG or bigger.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
>
>Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5
>amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright.
Hmmm . . . sounds like you may have found a typographical
error. Perhaps the 5 should have been 15.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Master/Starter Contactors and Spike Catchers |
>
>Bob: does the little silver band on the spike catcher diodes on your
>battery and alternator contactors go towards the positive or negative coil
>terminal? Am I correct that to use the contactor for an alternator
>contactor, I must remove the jumper wire? Thanx, Rion
Yes . . . the banded end of any diode used as a spike catcher
must attach to the + terminal of the contactor coil.
The S701-1 contactor is supplied with a diode and jumper
to make it installation-ready for use as a battery contactor.
You are correct that to use this device as an alternator
disconnect contactor, the jumper would be removed.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
>
>Bob,
>
>I ordered battery cables from your website last night. Are they 2 guage or
>4?
Our battery jumpers are fabricated from 4AWG welding cable.
>Years ago I ordered a bunch of stuff from Van including two of those spike
>catching diodes. Are they the same as the ones you mentioned?
ANY diode you can put your hands on will work as a
spike catcher across the coil of a relay or contactor.
There are no rectifier diodes made with voltage ratings
of less than 50 nor current ratings of less than 1 amp.
My personal favorites are the 1N5400 series devices available
from Radio Shack for about $1 for a pak of two parts. These
feature more robust leadwires and heavier plastic bodies.
These are the parts illustrated in our website catalog pictures.
>Is there any theories out there that one should use crimps on all high
>vibration enviorment cables and electrical connections? Some one told me
>that in the Aircraft Standards Handbook it is mentioned to not solder the
>lugs onto the leads. Help! I'm confused!
Bottom line is that either solder -OR- crimped terminals
offer excellent technologies for jointing wires and terminals.
Here are a couple of pieces I've published on my website
on this topic.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>If I buy the vacume pad alternator (as backup) and the Aircraft Alternator
>Control System do I still need a OVM-14 at the vacume pad?
I would recommend it. Nobody in the alternator business
wants to advertise that the probability of over voltage
failure is NOT ZERO . . . it may be quite low but it is
not zero. I'm helping analyze a VERY expensive incident
involving a small alternator, small battery and a series
of errors that culminated in too many thousands of dollars
worth of damage.
Please include ov protection on every alternator system
and test the ov module every annual.
>Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one. No
>bigger.......
You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso
alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running
load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that
an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task.
This should be the first and last alternator you put on
your airplane. Beech/Piper/Cessna and Mooney can only
dream about having alternator service records that
approach the history of B&C alternators.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard |
Bob:
Over on the RV list there has been a discussion about a recent RV accident.
The pilot, most fortunately, survived with injuries in spite of major damage
to the fuel tanks that fortunately did not result in a fire.
I have noted that switching off my standard ACS supplied Cessna type dual
rocker master switch creates a significant blue arch behind the panel it is
mounted in.
I also recall a tale of a pilot trapped in a fuel soaked cockpit imploring
his rescuers not to touch any switches until they got him out.
Do the master switch part numbers and arrangements you recommend prevent
this arching problem? Is the common to the rocker type switch or do you
suspect another problem in my case?
Thanks
Dick Sipp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
> > >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one.
> No
> > >bigger.......
> >
> > You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso
> > alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running
> > load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that
> > an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task.
>
> Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps on
> the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3 strobes, and
> remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when everything is
> moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that will fit under a
> Sam James RV6A cowl?
>
> Norman Hunger
Norman
1981-1983 Honda Accords came with a 60 amp, externally regulated Nippon Denso
alternator. Other Japanese autos also use 50-60 amp alternators. However, most
of the others were models not produced in large quantities. This becomes an
issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in Moose Jaw, Sask.
on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator for a Geo or Suzuki??) It is
fairly small, although I can not say whether it will fit under the Sam James
cowl for sure. I expect that it can be made to fit. Sam's "howl cowl" is a copy
of the Barnard cowl. This cowl is actually wider than Van's stock cowl. This was
done to allow the installation of the angle valve IO-360 engine.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
> >Is there any theories out there that one should use crimps on all high
> >vibration enviorment cables and electrical connections? Some one told me
> >that in the Aircraft Standards Handbook it is mentioned to not solder the
> >lugs onto the leads. Help! I'm confused!
>
> Bottom line is that either solder -OR- crimped terminals
> offer excellent technologies for jointing wires and terminals.
>
*** I had an interesting conversation with my FSDO inspector about this very
topic. Before joining the government, he had been an avionics tech. I
asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder
wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire
which then broke from vibration. He admitted that he hadn't.
He told me that crimping was "pushed" by AC43-13 because it is
inspectable, it can be done by untrained personnel, and without it, you'd
never build something like a B-52.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Robinson" <jbr(at)hitechnetworks.net> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Wire Ends and other
issues . . .
Send reply to: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> > > >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking
> > > >one.
> > No
> > > >bigger.......
> > >
> > > You cannot do better than a B&C modified Nipon-Denso
> > > alternator. Why so big? The biggest full up IFR running
> > > load I've ever encountered was 27 Amps . . . meaning that
> > > an L-40 (6.5 pounds) was very much up to the task.
> >
> > Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps
> > on the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3
> > strobes, and remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when
> > everything is moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that
> > will fit under a Sam James RV6A cowl?
> >
> > Norman Hunger
>
> Norman
> 1981-1983 Honda Accords came with a 60 amp, externally regulated Nippon
> Denso
> alternator. Other Japanese autos also use 50-60 amp alternators. However,
> most of the others were models not produced in large quantities. This
> becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in
> Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator for a
> Geo or Suzuki??) It is fairly small, although I can not say whether it
> will fit under the Sam James cowl for sure. I expect that it can be made
> to fit. Sam's "howl cowl" is a copy of the Barnard cowl. This cowl is
> actually wider than Van's stock cowl. This was done to allow the
> installation of the angle valve IO-360 engine. Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage
>
>I think B&C also makes a 60 amp alternator. Same quality as
the 40 amp. You might check their web site.
Jim Robinson
Glll
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
Mornin', Jerry...
>>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder
wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire
which then broke from vibration.<<
I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a
pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer.
We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a
soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better
way to terminate a wire. It took a long time, and a lot of failures caused
by the wire breaking right at the terminal before they finally stopped
soldering them. They began to notice that the unsoldered crimped terminal
connections were not failing and finally came around.
If the connections can fail in a relatively low vibration application such
as we had (switches, photo cells and sensors of various kinds, PLCs etc...)
I wouldn't begin to think of using that technique in my plane.
Harley Dixon
Harley(at)AgelessWings.com
http://www.AgelessWings.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Subject: | Re: LOM magneto noise |
Well, 5 amp should be ok for one light. Does the schematic show two lights with
a 5 amp breaker?
Finn
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> >
> >Thanks Bob. Actually I used the kit manufacturer's schematic calling for 5
> >amp. They did specify 14 ga wire, so I guess that is alright.
>
> Hmmm . . . sounds like you may have found a typographical
> error. Perhaps the 5 should have been 15.
>
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
>
> Mornin', Jerry...
*** And good morning to YOU, Harley!
> >>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder
> wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire
> which then broke from vibration.<<
>
> I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a
> pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer.
>
> We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a
> soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better
*** Well,
If we get to bring previous lives into it - I used to be an instrument
maintenance tech at a telephone equipment factory. We had a large number of
specialized test sets built with "wire wrap". For those who don't know,
wire wrap is a technique where wire is wrapped around a post with sharp
edges. The edges dig into the inside of the wire, creating multiple gas
tight joints. It was touted as being much better than soldering.
Yeah, RIGHT. I found that on the factory floor, wire wrap performed well
for about five years. Then they would start to go intermittant. The quick
fix was to solder them. But the pins had tarnished in the meantime, making
even that iffy.
I especially remember one machine I was responsible for, the "Omni 2000".
This was a rack tester that would check to see that all the wires went to
the right pins, and also that they showed high resistance to all the wrong
pins. It had literally thousands of wire wrap connections. The only reason
I wasn't excessively annoyed by failing wire wraps, was that it also had
7000 relays, which occupied rather more of my time :).
I _THINK_ that PIDG connectors are inherently better than wire wrap,
because they offer the joint some environmental protection, as well as a
strain relief for the wire.
Ever take apart a personal computer? There's thousands and thousands of
SOLDERED connections in there. Easily enough so that any statistical
weakness would drop your computer in its tracks in a few months.
Better not buy any commercial avionics either. They're all full of
unreliable soldered connections. In fact, current practice is to "surface
mount" all the parts. With "surface mount" there is NO mechanical
connection or support for a part, other than its solder joints.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues . . . |
Afternoon, Jerry...
>>Ever take apart a personal computer?<<
Yep...even built a couple from scratch, as well as controllers, etc.
>>There's thousands and thousands of SOLDERED connections in there. <<
Yes indeed...but they are mechanically fixed to the rigid circuit
board...like the surface mount parts you mention. Flexing of the joint is
not an issue in this case. But, the plugs on the ends of the cabling in PCs
(like to the drives, etc.), are all crimped.
Soldering to a rigid surface like a circuit board strengthens the connection
because of the board's rigidity. But soldering a wire into an already
crimped connector weakens it because of the flexing of the wire at the point
where the solder ends and the wire begins...I think that this is what we
were talking about here.
>>was that it also had 7000 relays, which occupied rather more of my time
:).<<
I know of what you speak! In another-another life (no, I'm not a cat! ) I
was an engineer for a company that made a machine that built prefab houses.
One man would operate it, and it would feed components and precut studs and
sills, firestops, framing, etc, as called for by a computer program, then
advance the wall (which was built laying on it's inside) so the next part
could be inserted and nailed. It also applied the insulation and sheathing,
nailed it and cut out the doors and windows. I think that had about 7000
relays, too. Well, maybe only 6500....!
>>I found that on the factory floor, wire wrap performed well for about five
years.<<
Hmmm...the largest use of wire wrap I can think of is in a PDP-12 that we
used (back in that pharmaceutical company) to monitor several systems. The
wire wrapped "mother board" (about 140 x 120 pin grid) had very few
problems, in fact, I can't remember any that we traced to that part of the
machine. And it reliably ran for over 15 years 24/7. As far as I know, the
only thing that is currently wrong with it is that it needs a 15 volts power
supply (Currently? Yes, I still have it! I rescued it when they replaced it
with a new DEC VAX...it's currently resting quietly here in my house.)
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
>
> Can one CDI be switched to operate either the GPS or the VOR/ILS? I would
> like to also be sending whatever the CDI is reading to the Navaid smart
> coupler at the same time.
>
*** Depends on the kind of CDI. It will work with a CDI that only has
meter movements in it. KNI-520, KI-206, IND-351A, or an HSI: NSD360 etc.
Many low-end CDI's have a built in "VOR Converter" - these won't work with a
GPS. Basically, such CDIs ( KI-201C, KI-214 etc ) take the complex audio
output from the receiver and demodulate it. GPS's don't output a complex
audio signal, they just output currents to move meter needles.
OK, if you have the right sort of CDI, you still have to switch it. A
glideslope CDI contains five meter movements. Two needles and three flags.
Each movement has two wires ( they don't use common grounds ) so you will
need ten switch contacts or relays. Well, you could probably get by with
eight relays by using a common ground for the Horiz & vert nav flags. That
could boil down to two 4PDT relays.
Also, the FAA requires that you have an annunciator that says what the
indicator is reading. Hence those cute little $500 switch/annunciator
boxes.
A GNS-430 doesn't need a switch/annunciator box because the switching
is done inside the box, AND because it displays the indicator source
immediately above the button that chooses it.
If by "navaid smart coupler" you mean an autopilot, that's no problem,
you just hook the autopilot input across the CDI horiz needle movement.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: altnerator size . . . |
>
>Thanks for all your help so far Bob. I do want to go bigger than 40 amps on
>the alternator. I have heated seats, full lighting including 3 strobes, and
>remote camera ball units that can use up to 12 amps when everything is
>moving (+ camera power). What is there around 60 amps that will fit under a
>Sam James RV6A cowl?
B&C has an L-60. Call them up at 316.283.8000 and they'll
be able to tell you if they've encountered any fit problems.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: solder vs. crimp |
>> >>I asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder
>> wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire
>> which then broke from vibration.<<
>>
>> I wasn't an Avionics tech, but during a previous lifetime, I worked in a
>> pharmaceutical company's engineering group as a control system designer.
>>
>> We had many system and component failures due to the breaking of a
>> soldered/crimped terminal. Our technicians were convinced it was a better
This topic keeps flowering up from time to time. Bottom line
is that EITHER crimp or solder can be done in a manner that will
perform satisfactorily in an airplane or any other vehicle. Either
technique can be performed BADLY so as to be unsatisfactory in
any situation. It's never necessary to do both.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Van's Dimmer Control |
>
>I've got a dimmer kit from Van that is now several years old. When I hook it
>up to my string of panel lights it seems to work fine until I put a jumper
>straight off the battery. Then the lights get a bunch brighter. Is this
>normal?
>
>The little PC board gets quite hot too. Is this normal?
>
>Is there another dimmer out there that does allow full power at max bright?
Not familiar with Van's product. Why is "full power" a requirement?
You want the dimmer to be regulated at settings where you operate
most of the time . . . this is usually with very dim illumination after
you've dark adapted. The need for full power is for the minutes after
sunset where full power is never enough . . . as soon as it's really
dark enough to need panel lighting, the need for full bright goes away
quickly. Our dimmers stop at 12 volts so that when set for full bright,
small perturbations in bus voltage (from strobes or other dynamic loads)
don't cause the panel lights to flicker.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: policies, procedures and bureaucratic advice . |
. .
>
>*** I had an interesting conversation with my FSDO inspector about this very
>topic. Before joining the government, he had been an avionics tech. I
>asked him if he had EVER seen a failure of a solder joint due to solder
>wicking back down the leads and turning the stranded wire into a solid wire
>which then broke from vibration. He admitted that he hadn't.
>
> He told me that crimping was "pushed" by AC43-13 because it is
>inspectable, it can be done by untrained personnel, and without it, you'd
>never build something like a B-52.
>
> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
But it was okay for building tens of thousands of B-17, B-29, etc, etc.
People with training, skill and pride of workmanship can build
ANY THING with ANY suitable TECHNIQUE. It's true that if you want
to drag a government schooled kid off the street that's looking
for the fast-track to a $100,000 a year job, you'd better do
everything you can to reduce the probability of error . . . but
even that's no guarantee.
I've got some pictures in my files of pins applied with "certified"
tools and a "trained" technician that fell of the wires and
caused a thrust reverser failure. For lack of a little common
sense and pride of craftsmanship, a perfectly good airplane
got buggered up in the dirt off the end of a runway. This airplane
was built two years ago.
All the advisory circulars and inspectors in the world will
not replace common sense and integrity.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Wire Ends and other issues |
. . .
>
>Afternoon, Jerry...
>
>>>Ever take apart a personal computer?<<
>
>Yep...even built a couple from scratch, as well as controllers, etc.
>
>>>There's thousands and thousands of SOLDERED connections in there. <<
>
>Yes indeed...but they are mechanically fixed to the rigid circuit
>board...like the surface mount parts you mention. Flexing of the joint is
>not an issue in this case. But, the plugs on the ends of the cabling in PCs
>(like to the drives, etc.), are all crimped.
This topic keeps flowering up from time to time. Bottom line
is that EITHER crimp or solder can be done in a manner that will
perform satisfactorily in an airplane or any other vehicle. Either
technique can be performed badly so as to be unsatisfactory in
any situation. It's never necessary to do both.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Muzzy Norman E" <MuzzyNormanE(at)johndeere.com> |
>Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one.
<<>>
Wander past your local John Deere farm equipment dealer. They have
Nippondenso alternators (and service parts for them) in 40, 60, 90, 120, and
140 amp sizes. And yes, they are available in Moose Jaw, Sask. (I don't
know about on a Sunday, however.)
Regards-
Norm Muzzy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard |
>
>Bob:
>
>Over on the RV list there has been a discussion about a recent RV accident.
>The pilot, most fortunately, survived with injuries in spite of major damage
>to the fuel tanks that fortunately did not result in a fire.
>
>I have noted that switching off my standard ACS supplied Cessna type dual
>rocker master switch creates a significant blue arch behind the panel it is
>mounted in.
Do which switch produces the arc? Battery or alternator side?
Do you have a spike catcher diode across your battery contactor
coil?
>I also recall a tale of a pilot trapped in a fuel soaked cockpit imploring
>his rescuers not to touch any switches until they got him out.
>
>Do the master switch part numbers and arrangements you recommend prevent
>this arching problem? Is the common to the rocker type switch or do you
>suspect another problem in my case?
Arcing at switch contacts can never be zero. I'm surprised that
you can "see" anything as switches are usually totally enclosed.
They normally don't represent much of hazard in terms of an ignition
source. I'd like to understand why you're seeing the blue fire.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Switch Capacity |
>
>So let me get this straight, I wire from the fuseblock to the switch to
>the component? Do I ever use relays to keep the current out of the
>switch?
There are very few cases where this is necessary on
a single engine airplane . . . the only buffer relays
you need are the starter contactor and battery master
contactor.
>For switches I am leaning towards Cole Hersee illuminated tip toggle
>switches M-54111-01 rated at 25 amps at 12 volts DC. Available at the
>local auto parts store. These have a black plastic toggle with a small
>light on the tip. It glows pale orange when not in use then changes to
>red when selected. I have found the same switch with a metal toggle
>orange when off green when on but no fast on tabs, must use ring
>terminals. I was trying to avoid ring terminals. These are factory
>equipment on 92-95 Western Star Trucks. Available from their dealers
>(now bought by Sterling who got bought by Freightliner who got bought by
>Mercedes Benz).
Seeesh! Those are hawgs . . . but they ought to do the job.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chuck Caldarale" <n828cl(at)ix.netcom.com> |
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CDI Wiring
>
> CDI - switch between panel GPS and panel VOR/ILS
> Navaid - switch between whatever the CDI sees and a handheld
> GPS/moving map
>
> My Navaid has the smartcoupler built in. Can I do this?
I had the same problem trying to get my Garmin handheld to drive the CDI and
the Navaid. I could not figure out a way to do it with the built-in
SmartCoupler. So, I sent the Navaid box back for coupler removal (and a
small refund), and bought the external one (II LE) direct from Jim Ham
(http://www.porcine.com). Now, a switch on the Terra Tri-Nav C lets me
select either the VOR or GPS to display, and the output of the CDI is routed
to the Navaid. I did have to modify the SC II LE slightly (at Jim's
direction) to condition the GPS available signal for the Tri-Nav. With the
external coupler, you also get a couple of tracking options that the
internal one doesn't have.
- Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Big Alternators |
> >Where is a good source for my main alternator? I want a big honking one.
>
> << others were models not produced in large quantities. This becomes an issue
> if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you are in Moose Jaw, Sask.
> on a Sunday.>>>
>
> Wander past your local John Deere farm equipment dealer. They have
> Nippondenso alternators (and service parts for them) in 40, 60, 90, 120, and
> 140 amp sizes. And yes, they are available in Moose Jaw, Sask. (I don't
> know about on a Sunday, however.)
>
> Regards-
> Norm Muzzy
Norm
My point regarding the use of less common parts still holds true for John Deere
stuff.
While you stand a very good chance of finding a John Deere dealer in any rural
area, they
certainly are nowhere near as common as Honda dealers, Pep Boys, Discount Auto,
NAPA, etc.
etc.
If you break down away from home, your transportation options (to find a vendor)
may be
very limited. You will probably need to go to the nearest parts store to the local
airport. I suspect that if you ask for a John Deere alternator at the local parts
store,
the reply very will could be: "We can order that for you. It will be here tomorrow.".
While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't seen
one in
Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area). Stick with common, high volume parts
if you want
to find a replacement (in stock) quickly.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | ectric-List:Feeder Cables |
To tap into the heavy duty feeder cables between battery and generator with
actually cutting the cable.
Are Split Bolt connectors a good idea?
Bob M
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Mornin', Charlie...
>>While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't
seen one in
Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area).<<
John Deere now makes lawn tractors, push mowers and string trimmers, as well
as all the Homelite products. So, they have now established sales and
service operations in just about every city in the US, as well as their big
equipment bases in rural areas that everyone normally thinks of.
Here in Rochester, NY there are 2 of them within a few (6 or 7) miles of ROC
(one of them about a mile from my house...which is what prompted me to look
it up at John Deere's web site), and a total of 5 in this area.
In the Ft. Lauderdale area they list 5, two of them within 8 miles of the
city.
Miami lists two more.
There are more of them out here than you might think.
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fergkyle" <ve3lvo(at)rac.ca> |
Subject: | Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan |
. "This becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you
are in Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator
for a Geo or Suzuki??) "
Easy, chaps. We always speak well of Boise, Pocatello and Decatur.
Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Full-name: LRE2
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:10:31 EDT
Subject: Contactors
Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from B&C for battery, alternator and ext
power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to
install the diodes. I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch
pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it
necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on"
switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the
contactor?
LRE2(at)aol.com
FEW P51 Mustang... Firewall Forward
Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from BC for battery, alternator and ext
power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to
install the diodes. I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch
pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it
necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on"
switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the
contactor?
LRE2(at)aol.com
FEW P51 Mustang... Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Streit <wooody98(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Big Alternators |
But do they stock a 60-70 amp alternator, and are they open on the weekend????
Jim Streit
90073 tanks
"Harley, Ageless Wings" wrote:
>
> Mornin', Charlie...
>
> >>While farm equipment dealers can be found in most rural areas, I haven't
> seen one in
> Miami or Fort Lauderdale (my local area).<<
>
> John Deere now makes lawn tractors, push mowers and string trimmers, as well
> as all the Homelite products. So, they have now established sales and
> service operations in just about every city in the US, as well as their big
> equipment bases in rural areas that everyone normally thinks of.
>
> Here in Rochester, NY there are 2 of them within a few (6 or 7) miles of ROC
> (one of them about a mile from my house...which is what prompted me to look
> it up at John Deere's web site), and a total of 5 in this area.
>
> In the Ft. Lauderdale area they list 5, two of them within 8 miles of the
> city.
>
> Miami lists two more.
>
> There are more of them out here than you might think.
>
> Harley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net> |
Subject: | Re: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan |
I was in Sitka, Alaska and the local B&C auto not only could test my Nippon
Denso, but could promise me a replacement on Monday. (It was Friday Night on
Thanksgiving weekend.
Turned out the Alternator was fine, and I fully expect, considering the amount
of time it runs on my plane compared to the amount of time it would run on a
car, that it will remain fine for the life of the plane.
Bill
Fergkyle wrote:
>
> . "This becomes an issue if you need to obtain a replacement. (Suppose you
> are in Moose Jaw, Sask. on a Sunday. How easily will you find an alternator
> for a Geo or Suzuki??) "
>
> Easy, chaps. We always speak well of Boise, Pocatello and Decatur.
> Ferg
> Europa A064
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Battery Connector |
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
12:38:38 PM
Heres something different. A local builder told me about seeing this
battery connector on an RV. The guy had it hidden under his seat. Would be
a good safeguard for those that do not want to go the ignition switch
route. I think its fairly small and can easily be hidden out of view.
Eric
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201&prrfnbr=63168&outlet
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-List: Van's Dimmer Control |
07/20/2001 11:42:50 AM
>I've got a dimmer kit from Van that is now several years old. When I hook
it
>up to my string of panel lights it seems to work fine until I put a jumper
>straight off the battery. Then the lights get a bunch brighter. Is this
>normal?
Not normal Norman. In fact it's a fire hazard.
Looks like your trying to draw way to much current from your dimmer. I
think the Van's dimmer is good for about 1.5 amps. What's your load like?
Your best bet is to split your load between two dimmers ( maybe one for
cabin lights and one for panel lights ) or just buy one that can handle the
entire load. Aeroelectric has some pretty stout ones that I understand
from other users work quite well.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( at the airport )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Harley, Ageless Wings" <Harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Jim...
>>are they open on the weekend???<<
Good point!
I know the one down the street from me is, but who knows about the others.
They are independent dealers of John Deere equipment...they probably set
there own hours...but then again, they'd probably open up for a sale sooner
than a big store would....like on the Fourth of July...
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | ectric-List:Feeder Cables |
>
>To tap into the heavy duty feeder cables between battery and generator with
>actually cutting the cable.
>Are Split Bolt connectors a good idea?
Why do you want to do this? I've found it quite easy to
provide threaded fasteners for the joining multiple pathways
at a single node.
What is the situation that drives this question? The
split-bolt connector does not provide a gas-tight joint
and is really designed for wire with relatively coarse
stranding. If you really have to do this kind of tap
to a big feeder, I'd rather see three crimped or soldered
terminals brought together with a bolt and the whole
assembly covered with several layers of heatshrink.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Master Switch Arching/Fire Hazard |
On Thur 7/19/01 Bob asks for more clarification regarding arching at master
switch:
Bob, I will check out your questions and post again.
Dick Sipp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
Subject: | avoiding ring terminals |
In a message dated 07/20/2001 2:55:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message
posted by: "Norman"
<< ......... For switches I am leaning towards ...................... I was
trying to avoid ring terminals.............>>
7/20/01
Hello Norman, You can avoid ring terminals by buying tabs from Terminal Town,
installing them on the switches, and then using the push on fasteners on your
wires.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
>From: LRE2(at)aol.com
>Full-name: LRE2
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:10:31 EDT
>Subject: Contactors
>To: Nuckolls(at)Aeroelectric.com
>
>
>Bob, I am using S701-1 contactors from B&C for battery, alternator and ext
>power relays. Do they have internal spike protector diodes or do I need to
>install the diodes.
They should have come with diodes installed.
> I assume the diodes go from the hot side of the switch
>pole to the hot side of the contacting pole. Is this correct. Is it
>necessary to disable the diode when using the contactor as an alternator "on"
>switch? If so-- how does one accomplish that without destroying the
>contactor?
These diodes are illustrated schematically in all of our
power distribution diagrams . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/R9Z_0400.pdf
catalog pages . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/switch.html#s701-1
and discussed in this article . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
Our continuous duty contactors feature externally
mounted diodes. The starter contactor has the diode
built in.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: avoiding ring terminals |
>posted by: "Norman"
><< ......... For switches I am leaning towards ...................... I was
>trying to avoid ring terminals.............>>
>
>7/20/01
>
>Hello Norman, You can avoid ring terminals by buying tabs from Terminal Town,
>installing them on the switches, and then using the push on fasteners on your
>wires.
Please don't do this . . . it REALLY drives up parts count.
If the switches of choice only come with screw terminals
then my all means use matching ring terminals. This
technique has worked very well for tens of thousands
of airplanes. Screwing a tab onto a switch defeats the
goal of reduced parts count and installation labor.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
m>
> THANKS FOR THE REPLY, BOB! IF ONE ANTENNA WILL DO, THEN ONE ANTENNA
>IT IS! NOW--- HOW DO I HOOK THE FOOL THING UP? ALL I GOT WITH IT WAS A PIG
>TAIL WHERE IT HAD BEEN CUT OFF WITH A PAIR OF DIKES. THEY HAD STRIPPED THE
>SHEATH OFF THE WIRING AND LOOP-PULLED THE CENTER WIRE THROUGH THE BRAIDED
>SHEATH, AND THIS OUTER BRAID WAS WHAT WAS ATTACHED TO THE ANTENNA ROD. WHERE
>DOES THE CENTER WIRE HOOK UP? DOES IT HOOK TO ANYTHING AT ALL?
Both the center conductor and the outer braid must be connected
to the antenna in some fashion. If this is a tail mounted
VOR antenna, I presume were talking about the "cat whiskers"
that one sees on about 95% of the single engine airplanes.
I presume further the one you have has two rods intended to exit
either side of the vertical fin. There should be terminals of
some kind visible where electrical connections are made to the
ends of the rods where they enter a mounting block made from
some kind of insulating material.
The braid should connect to one rod, the center conductor
to the other. I recommend RG-400 coax for this task. Extend
the coax forward to the panel where you need to install a
one-antenna to two or three-radios coupler.
Will you have a glideslope receiver? You can run two VOR
-AND- a glideslope from the single antenna.
I am curious as to why you're installing two VOR receivers
in this airplane. I rent airplanes for my personal needs.
Haven't turned a VOR receiver on in years. I use $100
hand-held GPS receivers I bought at Walmart . . . they
are 10x the radio for 1/10th the price. I can have two
radios for the price of the cost of fuel to make one trip.
VOR is scheduled to go away. What's your interest in this
navigational dinosaur? If you NEED a VOR for sanctioned
IFR activities, then one radio would suffice to meet the
requirements. If you don't plan IFR activities and want
the best performance you can get for the money, I'd
leave these relics on the ground.
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: RE: ANTENNAS m> |
>
> I am curious as to why you're installing two VOR receivers
> in this airplane. I rent airplanes for my personal needs.
> Haven't turned a VOR receiver on in years. I use $100
> hand-held GPS receivers I bought at Walmart . . . they
> are 10x the radio for 1/10th the price. I can have two
> radios for the price of the cost of fuel to make one trip.
> VOR is scheduled to go away. What's your interest in this
> navigational dinosaur? If you NEED a VOR for sanctioned
> IFR activities,
*** A good topic!
I gave this some serious thought. I had a GNS430 left over from
the old plane. The new plane had a pair of KX170B's, a KI214 GS/indicator,
a mechanical readout DME, an ADF, and a Northstar Loran.
Given that stuff was in there and working, I just took out one navcom and
installed the 430 in its place.
I really expect that everything but the 430 and the second navcom is going
to be just panel decoration. And the second navcom will be used only for
a third COM frequency.
But not only do I plan to do O-ficial IFR stuff, I plan to earn my
instrument rating with this setup. And I'd rather not try to earn the
rating without the "normal" stuff, that is two VOR receivers. Maybe
things will change in ten years or so - but just now, instrument training is
VOR-centric.
And all the other stuff still gives me peace of mind for redundancy- for
that fateful and unlikely day when the GNS430 dies. I even kept the KI-214,
so as to have two glideslope receivers. And for that day when the whole
electrical system packs it in, I always have a Lowrance Airmap and a KX-99
transceiver in the flight bag.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: LRE2(at)aol.com
Full-name: LRE2
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:13:25 EDT
Subject: Contactors
Bob, re: your reply:
The S701-1 contactors I received from B&C included no schematics
or diodes.
Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and
install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors.
As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole.
Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here.
I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should
jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole.
LRE
Bob, re: your reply:
The S701-1 contactors I received from BC included no schematics
or diodes.
Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and
install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors.
As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole.
Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here.
I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should
jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole.
LRE
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>
>Bob, re: your reply:
> The S701-1 contactors I received from B&C included no schematics
>or diodes.
>Since no polarity is indicated, I can only assume that I need to obtain and
>install spike arresting diodes. Your schematics depict 3 pole contactors.
>As you are aware, S701-1 contactors are 4 pole.
> Sorry to expose my ignorance, but I could use some help here.
>I have obtained some N5400 diodes from RadioShack. I assume that they should
>jump the two "switch" poles, with the polarity stripe facing the "hot" pole.
> LRE
Yes, we do supply only the 4-terminal contactor so that one part number
can be used in many different applications. The illustration at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/switch/s701-1l.jpg shows how to
install the diode -AND- a jumper wire to make the contactor into a
diode-protected, 3-terminal device that matches our schematics. In
applications where the 4-terminal device is needed, the jumper is
simply removed and you have access to both ends of the contactor's
coil circuit.
I'll drop a copy of this note to Todd at B&C so that he can take
whatever steps are needed to make sure the diodes and jumper are
installed on future shipments. Sorry for the inconvenience . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm going with your fuse block setup rather than CBs. Somewhere I believe
>you discussed how often one has to reset/replace a CB/fuse in flight, and
>how much good it actually does (NONE). Based upon my personal experience
>with this, I am seriously considering placing the fuse block where it will
>not be accessible in flight (not much is in a VariEze, and I know you have
>discussed this also).
>My concern is whether our very experienced and
>knowing FAA types will object, realizing their more legal-than-rational
>training would insist on starting a fire by overcoming any circuit
>protecting device immediately rather than waiting until we're all on the
>ground. I can probably get a local inspector to agree, but he will have
>been transferred to Taiwan by the time I'm ready for the Feds.
First, ask the objector for the basis of objection . . . he/she
will probably whip out FAR23 which reads in part:
Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices.
(d) If the ability to reset a circuit breaker or replace a fuse is
essential to safety in flight, that circuit breaker or fuse must be so
located and identified that it can be readily reset or replaced in flight.
(e) For fuses identified as replaceable in flight--
(1) There must be one spare of each rating or 50 percent spare fuses of
each rating, whichever is greater; and
(2) The spare fuse(s) must be readily accessible to any required pilot.
Then ask for identification of any electrical component
failure that is essential to continued safe flight. (First
you may want to get a definition of "safe" . . . many
have come to believe that any departure from full-up,
100% functionality represents a loss of safety . . .)
You should have worked out the answer to this on your
own long before the inspectors get there . . . there should
be no single equipment failure that will adversely
affect your comfortable arrival at intended destination
that does not already have a backup.
Sooooooooo . . . (1) there are no fuses in reach of the
crew so carrying spares in the cockpit is a meaningless
requirement and (2) you're not going to break a sweat
with the loss of any single piece of equipment so no
single item is essential to the safety of flight.
And further, you can point out that electro-whizzies
on airplanes have many, many more failure modes that
DO NOT pop fuses than they have failure modes that DO
pop fuses.
And finally, while FAR23 is an interesting and often
useful guide for the design and fabrication of airplanes,
it has no regulatory force upon your project.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
Subject: | starter contactor diodes |
In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes:
<<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted
diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >>
Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back is
part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering).
Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted spike
catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
7/22/01
Hello Robert L. Nuckolls, I have a very small voltage reading in one
configuration from my master battery contactor that has me puzzled /
concerned and I'd appreciate your help.
Here is the situation in my partially completed electrical system: The master
battery contactor is a three terminal P/N 111-226 item from Aircraft Spruce
and is located near the battery behind the seat. The B terminal on the
contactor is connected by a short 2 AWG to the battery plus terminal. The
output terminal of the contactor is attached to a 2 AWG wire that presently
ends in free space in front of the firewall.
The center solenoid terminal of the contactor is connected to the aircraft
battery master switch, which when turned ON completes contact to the aircraft
ground bus.There is a spike catcher diode, P/N 16050-2 from ACS, connecting
the center solenoid terminal to battery minus.
The the battery minus terminal is connected to the aircraft ground bus at the
firewall by 2 AWG wire.
My problem, if it is one, is that I see a voltage reading on my digital
voltage meter of 0.23 volts between the battery plus terminal and the output
terminal of the contactor when the battery switch is OFF. I would expect to
read 0.00 volts because presumably the input and output contactor terminals
are completely separated and there should be infinite resistance and no
circuit for current to flow through. I am concerned that this small voltage
reading when the battery master switch is OFF indicates that there will
always be some small constant current drain from the battery even though the
switch is OFF. Can you please provide some enlightenment?
I'll provide some additional voltage readings just in case they may be of
help.
First with the battery switch OFF: From battery plus to battery minus:12.78
volts. From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery
plus to the output side of contactor: 0.23 volts (the condition described
above). From battery plus to the solenoid terminal: 0.00 volts. From battery
minus to solenoid terminal: 12.72 volts.
With the battery switch ON: From battery plus to battery minus: 12.63 volts.
From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus
to output side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to the solenoid
terminal: 12.48 volts. From battery minus to the solenoid terminal: 0.15
volts.
Many thanks for your help Bob.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: 24v battery tester |
>
> Bob,
>
> I am looking at page 2-9 figure 2-4 of your Aeroelectric Connection
> and I am wondering what needs to be changed to make it work for 24
> volt batteries.
>
> The clock would be the same.
>
> The relay would either have to be rated for 24v or I would have to
> figure out what resistor to put in series with the coil.
Measure the resistance of the coil and add a resistor in series
with the coil equal to the coil resistance . . . or you could
substitute a relay with a 24v coil
>
> Questions:
>
> Would the same transister work?
>
> Are the 470 ohm resisters matched to the zener or the 55w lamp? Would
> they have to be different for a 24 volt battery and load? What about
> if the I used a different load? Say, a 100w landing light? Are
> zeners available in 20 or 21 volt versions or is there an easy way to
> make they work at other volatages? What watt rating does the zener
> need?
A very low wattage zener is fine . . . you can get zeners in
a wide variety of voltages I would suggest a 20V device
(1N4747). Digikey.com stocks these as do many electronics
parts suppliers. All other parts in the tester remain the same.
Use any load you like . . . a REAL landing light bulb is pretty
expensive. I think I'd use two automotive headlamps in series.
A pair of 55w 14v lamps would give you 110w at 28v.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Overvoltage relays |
Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage
relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't find
such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you tell
me what to order?
Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions nicely....LRE
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wx3o <wx3o(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Alternator tripping |
All,
While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped working....output
went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then back
on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew for
about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the airport
traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea). This
time the alternator output failed in just about one minute.
So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one radio
and strobes -- totally uneventful.
Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be
looking at the alternator itself?
Thanks,
Mark Julicher
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Alternator tripping |
From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
09:35:10 AM
Every time I hear this I think about the Rick Nelson crash. I'm told thats
how his DC-3 went down. The heater was tripping the breaker and they kept
resetting it because the pax were cold. It turned into a big problem real
fast. From an armchair quarterback perspective, you might as well had a
fuse block mounted out of sight like 'lectric Bob tells us.
Eric Henson
wx3o (at)matronics.com on 07/23/2001 09:12:03 AM
Please respond to aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator tripping
All,
While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped
working....output
went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then
back
on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew
for
about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the
airport
traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea).
This
time the alternator output failed in just about one minute.
So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one
radio
and strobes -- totally uneventful.
Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be
looking at the alternator itself?
Thanks,
Mark Julicher
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ronald A. Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/22/01 |
>
____
> From: LRE2(at)aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Overvoltage relays
>
>
> Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage
> relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't
find
> such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you
tell
> me what to order?
> Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions
nicely....LRE
I thought the B&C regulator (LR3) already included that feature... Doesn't
it?
Ron Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternator tripping |
>
>All,
>
>While flying a Citabria this weekend, the alternator stopped working....output
>went to zero. No big deal, I reset it by cycling master switch off then back
>on. The alternator worked for about 15 minutes then quit again. I flew for
>about 10 minutes, shed all loads that I did not need to get into the airport
>traffic area, and tried a second reset (I know, probably a dumb idea). This
>time the alternator output failed in just about one minute.
>
>So I returned to home (Peachtree Dekalb) with just the transponder, one radio
>and strobes -- totally uneventful.
>
>Question: Does this sound like a voltage regulator gone bad or should I be
>looking at the alternator itself?
The first thing to do in any situation like this is get data.
What is the bus voltage just prior to a trip off . . . what
is the field voltage put out by the regulator to the
alternator? Is this aircraft equipped with overvoltage protection?
How is it designed to behave? Does the POH tell you that recycling
the master switch will reset a tripped ov protection?
Your symptoms LOOK like an ov trip which is usually a
regulator problem. I'm sure an eager FBO mechanic would be
happy to start bolting new parts to the airplane until the
problem goes away. Save some time, dollars and learn some
things about the airplane and what's going on before you
let the mechanic touch it.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Overvoltage relays |
>
>Bob, Your syllabus has convinced me that I need to install an over voltage
>relay between the voltage regulator (LR3) and the bus. However, I don't find
>such a creature listed, as such, in the B&C online catalogue. Can you tell
>me what to order?
> Thanks for the last reply ---answered all my questions nicely....LRE
If you have an LR3 regulator from B&C . . . all of the necessary
ov protection is built in. This is why the LR-3 costs so much. It's
actually 3 products in one case . . . regulator, ov protection and
lv warning. When you figure $75/product, the price overall isn't
so bad.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: stray voltage? |
>
>7/22/01
>
>
>With the battery switch ON: From battery plus to battery minus: 12.63 volts.
>>From battery plus to input side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus
>to output side of contactor: 0.00 volts. From battery plus to the solenoid
>terminal: 12.48 volts. From battery minus to the solenoid terminal: 0.15
>volts.
This is not a meaningful measurement. If the contactor is not
energized, you're reading voltage drop across open contacts
that will be a function of how much load there is on the other
side . . . the voltage reading you're interested in is from
battery(-) [system ground] to other points in the system. battery(+)
will be the 12.63 you already observed. Now measure the votlage
on the output side of the battery contactor. I predict this reading
will be 0.00 which means that the contactor is indeed open.
The reading that caused you concern can be a wildly variable
number depending on what stuff is connected to the bus
downstream of the contactor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter contactor diodes |
>
>In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes:
>
><<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted
>diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >>
>
>Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back is
>part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering).
>
>Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted spike
>catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you.
Their S811-1 is part of a PMA'd kit for installation of B&C starters
on certified iron. I don't know if we knew about the availability
of built in diodes when we did that kit. The S811 doesn't have
the diode. You can mount one externally. Get a 1N5400 from
Radio Shack (1N5401 or and other 5400 series is okay too). Banded
end of diode connects to "S" terminal, other end of diode goes
to mounting base bolt that holds contactor to firewall.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter contactor diodes |
Hi Bob,
I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they are
Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are
talking about for the starter contactor? The Diodes they had were
different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15
volts and 1 amp.
Ed Perry
edperry64(at)netzero.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter contactor diodes
>
> >
> >In a message dated 07/21/2001 2:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes:
> >
> ><<...........Our continuous duty contactors feature externally mounted
> >diodes. The starter contactor has the diode built in....... Bob . . . >>
> >
> >Hello Bob, The starter contactor that I purchased from B&C some time back
is
> >part number S811-1. (Not their current part number S702-1 offering).
> >
> >Does part number S811-1 contactor also include an internally mounted
spike
> >catcher diode or should I install an external one? Thank you.
>
> Their S811-1 is part of a PMA'd kit for installation of B&C starters
> on certified iron. I don't know if we knew about the availability
> of built in diodes when we did that kit. The S811 doesn't have
> the diode. You can mount one externally. Get a 1N5400 from
> Radio Shack (1N5401 or and other 5400 series is okay too). Banded
> end of diode connects to "S" terminal, other end of diode goes
> to mounting base bolt that holds contactor to firewall.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ( "I have not failed. I've just found )
> ( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
> ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter contactor diodes |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they are
>Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are
>talking about for the starter contactor?
Yes . . .
> The Diodes they had were
>different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15
>volts and 1 amp.
>Ed Perry
The terms "rectifier" and "diode" are virtually the same.
The 1N5400 or any of it's close brothers (1N5401, 02, etc)
is the same as the parts we use on our outgoing product.
There are dozens of part numbers that would work in this
application . . . spike catching on a contactor is not
a particularly difficult or stressful task for the
part to accomplish. I use the 1N5400 series because
of their relative robustness and convenient size.
All rectifiers are diodes but some diodes may not
be practical for use as a rectifier. Rectifier
is a term applied to a part of a power supply.
These parts have to deal with substantial amounts
of voltage and current. There are some
small signal or switching diodes with ratings too
small to be practical power devices but are suited
to other tasks in low power signal circuits.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter contactor diodes |
Hi Again,
Thanks for clarifying that for me. The other thing that I forgot to tell you
is that if you go into the store it is a different part number. That also
threw me off. The part number on the shelf is 276-1141.
Thanks again,
Ed Perry
eperry(at)san.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:18 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: starter contactor diodes
>
> >
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >I just got back from Radio Shack with Part # 1N5400. It says that they
are
> >Epoxy rectifiers 3AMP-50PIV. Is this the same as the diodes that you are
> >talking about for the starter contactor?
>
> Yes . . .
>
>
> > The Diodes they had were
> >different, in fact they were referred to as diodes and only good for 15
> >volts and 1 amp.
> >Ed Perry
>
>
> The terms "rectifier" and "diode" are virtually the same.
> The 1N5400 or any of it's close brothers (1N5401, 02, etc)
> is the same as the parts we use on our outgoing product.
> There are dozens of part numbers that would work in this
> application . . . spike catching on a contactor is not
> a particularly difficult or stressful task for the
> part to accomplish. I use the 1N5400 series because
> of their relative robustness and convenient size.
>
> All rectifiers are diodes but some diodes may not
> be practical for use as a rectifier. Rectifier
> is a term applied to a part of a power supply.
> These parts have to deal with substantial amounts
> of voltage and current. There are some
> small signal or switching diodes with ratings too
> small to be practical power devices but are suited
> to other tasks in low power signal circuits.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: starter contactor diodes |
>
>Hi Again,
>Thanks for clarifying that for me. The other thing that I forgot to tell you
>is that if you go into the store it is a different part number. That also
>threw me off. The part number on the shelf is 276-1141.
>Thanks again,
>Ed Perry
That's Radio Shack's catalog number. The 1N5400
is a part number for the component which may be
manufactured by dozens of different companies
and stocked by hundreds of distributors and dealers
under their own catalog numbers.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Hi Bob,
In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the sparks
start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or pos
first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know!
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 N23BB
Under going smoke test.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Safety |
>
>Hi Bob,
>In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the sparks
>start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or pos
>first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know!
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 N23BB
>Under going smoke test.
The biggest hazard while swinging wrenches around batteries
is to accidently get a wrench against the airframe while working
with the (+) terminal of the battery with the (-) terminal
still connected.
Logic dictates that (-) terminal should be disconnected
first and reconnected last.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jesse Kluijfhout, PE1RUI" <jessevli(at)zeelandnet.nl> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Safety |
Hi Bruce,
Always connect positive first and disconnect negative first.
In that case you never will get sparks when you
hit a ground point (as ground isnt connect to the battery).
As you see I go out from negative ground, Ive youve
positive ground the rule just chances.
When you do the negative lead second, and you hit
a ground point while fastening the negative lead, there
wont be a spark as there isnt a potential voltage diffrence between ground
and negative (if youve
negative ground).
Regards,
Jesse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Safety
>
> Hi Bob,
> In my RV4 I installed two B&C 17 amp batteries end to end. Before the
sparks
> start flying what precautions should I know about. Hook up neg first or
pos
> first. Stuff like that. The unknowing need to know!
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 N23BB
> Under going smoke test.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "PETER LAURENCE" <plaurence(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Electric Bob,
I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics
fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device?
Peter Laurence
Wireing Velocity XL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net> |
I've had a Garmin GMA-340 installed in my Cozy for about 8 months. It
seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I turn
on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport, it
breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off,
regardless what frequency I have tuned. I've tried using a different
handheld in the cabin, and also replaced the GMA-340, but the problem
remains.
I've traced all the grounds, and they all seem to be good. In
talking with a couple avionics types, they start talking arcana. I'm
planning to eventually rebuild my instrument panel, but not this
summer. And the suggestions they are making for trouble shooting are
not much simpler than just committing to rebuilding the panel.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has a simple solution like that
tech magic somebody mentioned where you attach a little black box to an
antenna and it somehow "muffles" the stray radiation?
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV? |
>
>Electric Bob,
>
>I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics
>fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device?
>
>
>Peter Laurence
>Wireing Velocity XL
When the first chapters of the 'Connection were written,
I was trying to deduce the simplest, goofproof methods
for a variety of tasks. We've been putting some kind of
spike catcher across the coils of large relays
and contactors for years . . . the silicon diode first
became available in the early 60's. Diodes are polarity
sensitive devices and if they're inadvertently hooked up
backwards, the least effect is a popped breaker . . . and
you can smoke wires.
The MOV (metal oxide varistor) does about the same thing
as a diode and better yet, it is an AC device . . . meaning
that it can sorta do the job no matter which way it's wired.
However, low voltage MOVs are not nearly as common as the
silicon diode . . . and they're not quite as effective as
a diode in the role of spike catcher.
Sooooooo . . . . after recommending the MOV for about 6-7
years, I decided to go back to the diode. You can get them
everywhere, they work better and the only down side is that
you need to be both knowledgeable and careful in how you
hook them up. If you check out our most recent encarnations
of the power distribution diagrams, you'll see diodes across
the contactor coils . . . some old drawings may still show
an MOV or two . . . but these will be replaced as those
pages come up for revision.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "I have not failed. I've just found )
( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held |
>
>I've had a Garmin GMA-340 installed in my Cozy for about 8 months. It
>seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I turn
>on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport, it
>breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off,
>regardless what frequency I have tuned. I've tried using a different
>handheld in the cabin, and also replaced the GMA-340, but the problem
>remains.
>
> I've traced all the grounds, and they all seem to be good. In
>talking with a couple avionics types, they start talking arcana. I'm
>planning to eventually rebuild my instrument panel, but not this
>summer. And the suggestions they are making for trouble shooting are
>not much simpler than just committing to rebuilding the panel.
>
> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has a simple solution like that
>tech magic somebody mentioned where you attach a little black box to an
>antenna and it somehow "muffles" the stray radiation?
Control of inter and intra-system interference can be
one of the most perplexing and frustrating of aviation
tasks. A big part of our new design budgets are used up
running black boxes, system mockups and indeed whole
airplanes through the EMC facility at Raytheon. And sometimes,
even all the advance work we know how to do isn't enough.
Your situation offers still more stumbling blocks . . .
Handhelds are NOT designed to be panel mounted so
some manufacturer's take advantage of the
relaxed interference control requirements. In this
case, it sounds like the GMA-430 is the likely suspect.
All radios, whether transmitter or receiver, have
little oscillators inside used to manage signals.
Radiation of these devices is supposed to be controlled
and indeed, I suspect that the GMA-430 meets all the
requirements. However, the requirements are to control
radiation to a level needed for satisfactory for other
airframe mounted devices . . . not handhelds with
an antenna in close proximity to the GMA-430.
I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430
is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal
enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting
out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic
these days).
Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through
a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio
is supplied with a signal source more remotely located
from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop
to acceptable levels.
If this is the case, perhaps you would entertain the
idea of providing the handheld with a convenient patch
connector into the existing comm antenna. You're probably
not going to NEED the handheld unless the panel mounted
comm is TU . . . so why not shift the comm antenna over to
the handheld?
Route the comm antenna coax through the cockpit so that
you can add an intermediate connection to the feedline.
A panel mounted female needs to be connected to the
coax coming in from the antenna. A regular BNC cable
male will do for the run up to the panel mounted radio.
When handheld operation is dictated, unplug the stub
going up to the panel mount and use a 3' or so piece
of coax with a BNC male on each end to connect the
hand held to the panel mounted jack. The handheld
will give MUCH better performance as a backup to your
panel mounted comm. And further, this may well be the
answer for the interference problem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RION BOURGEOIS" <rion(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV? |
Bob: if you hook them up backwards, will it damage the diode? Thanx, Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:45 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV?
>
> >
> >Electric Bob,
> >
> >I noticed that the metal oxide varistors are no longer on your schematics
> >fir the switches. are they replaced with any other device?
> >
> >
> >Peter Laurence
> >Wireing Velocity XL
>
> When the first chapters of the 'Connection were written,
> I was trying to deduce the simplest, goofproof methods
> for a variety of tasks. We've been putting some kind of
> spike catcher across the coils of large relays
> and contactors for years . . . the silicon diode first
> became available in the early 60's. Diodes are polarity
> sensitive devices and if they're inadvertently hooked up
> backwards, the least effect is a popped breaker . . . and
> you can smoke wires.
>
> The MOV (metal oxide varistor) does about the same thing
> as a diode and better yet, it is an AC device . . . meaning
> that it can sorta do the job no matter which way it's wired.
> However, low voltage MOVs are not nearly as common as the
> silicon diode . . . and they're not quite as effective as
> a diode in the role of spike catcher.
>
> Sooooooo . . . . after recommending the MOV for about 6-7
> years, I decided to go back to the diode. You can get them
> everywhere, they work better and the only down side is that
> you need to be both knowledgeable and careful in how you
> hook them up. If you check out our most recent encarnations
> of the power distribution diagrams, you'll see diodes across
> the contactor coils . . . some old drawings may still show
> an MOV or two . . . but these will be replaced as those
> pages come up for revision.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ( "I have not failed. I've just found )
> ( 10,000 ways that won't work." )
> ( - Thomas Alva Edison 1847-1931 )
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: wherefore art thou faithful MOV? |
>
>Bob: if you hook them up backwards, will it damage the diode? Thanx, Rion
Probably . . . it's easy to tell. Using an ohmmeter to
test the diode, you should get some resistance reading
greater than 1 ohm with one orientation. Reverse the leads
and the reading should be infinite . . . higher value than
your ohmmeter will read.
A damaged diode will be less than 1 ohm resistance in
both directions.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tammy and Mike Salzman <arrow54t(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Garmin GMA 340 |
> It
> seems to work fine, except I have a lot of EF noise. So much, if I
> turn
> on my handheld while the GMA-340 is powered up, ICOM IC-A22 Sport,
> it
> breaks squelch and hisses at me continuously until I shut it off,
> regardless what frequency I have tuned. Bill>
Bill,
Does this only happen while transmitting?
If so, then try connecting your handheld radio antenna output
connection to the aircraft antenna coax. If you transmit 5 watts that
close to any electronic equipment, you can expect it to be affected.
The signal from the handheld radio is strong enough, while transmitting
with the antenna inside the cabin, that the GNS 430 circuitry will
receive it, even independent of its own antenna! The reason you just
get static is that the amplifiers inside the 430 are most likely being
overdriven (avalanche?). You gotta get the RF outta there or if your
handheld radio has an adjustable output power, try it on a lower power
setting or holding it further away from the panel.
Good luck,
Mike Salzman
LNCE N811ES FB 25%
Fairfield, CA
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William B. Swears" <wswears(at)gci.net> |
Subject: | Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held] |
Bob,
What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the same
antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a
second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during
normal ops, but it is convenient.
Bill
I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430
is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal
enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting
out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic
these days).
Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through
a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio
is supplied with a signal source more remotely located
from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop
to acceptable levels.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: strobe noise in the radio |
>Bob
>
>I put a panel mounted comm in my Kitfox, and when I torch off the stobes, I
>get the oscillating squeal of the power supplies in my ear. The stobe power
>supplies are in the wingtips. None of my wiring is the shielded variety
>(except of course that antenna coax you made for me). How do you recommend
>I attack this?
>
>Danny Williamson
>Pride, LA
Have you read the chapter on noise in my book? There are
a number of questions that need to be answered to deduce
the propagation mode for noise from strobe supplies into
your headsets.
Have you used a single point ground for all of the goodies
mounted on the panel? Have you taken steps to insulate
the microphone and headset jacks from the airframe?
When you talk on radio, can others hear the whine in your
transmitted signal? Does the volume control for either
a radio -OR- intercom have an effect on the volume
of noise?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held] |
>
> Bob,
>
> What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the same
>antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a
>second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during
>normal ops, but it is convenient.
Route the panel mounted comm coax through the cockpit so that
you can add an intermediate connection to the feedline.
A panel mounted female needs to be connected to the
coax coming in from the antenna. A regular BNC cable
male will do for the run up to the panel mounted radio.
When handheld operation is dictated, unplug the stub
going up to the panel mount and use a 3' or so piece
of coax with a BNC male on each end to connect the
hand held to the panel mounted jack.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob:
What is the difference between RG-142 and RG-400 coax? Some of the specs I've
read say one is a solid conductor and made of steel.
Thanks,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: RG-142 vs. RG-400 |
>
>Bob:
>
>What is the difference between RG-142 and RG-400 coax? Some of the specs I've
>read say one is a solid conductor and made of steel.
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
The performance of RG-400 and RG-142 are identical. RG-142
has a solid center conductor which is somewhat easier to work
with in terms of installing the center pin of a coax connector.
Solid center conductors were prone to migration (cold flow)
through the polyethylene insulation around the center conductor
if the coax experienced a tight bend radius. This would result
in failure of the feedline at some point in the future (several
years).
I'm not surethe same problem exists with the newer insulations used in
RG-142 . . . my personal preference is RG-400 and thats
what we stock. Either is fine from the perspective of
functionality. A certainly minor and perhaps insignificant
concern would be to limit bend radii on the RG-142 to a
minimum of 3" . . .
Bob . . .
( There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. )
( That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to )
( finding out what's right. )
( -Carl Sagan- )
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: strobe noise in the radio |
All ground leads come to a common grounding block on the firewall, and the
block has a strap to the frame. The battery is grounded to the frame back
in the tail. All the headset jacks have insulating washers in them. The
stobe noise is not transmitted over the air. The volume controls have no
effect on the level of the stobe noise.
-------------------------
Okay, does the noise go away when the radios are off? If so,
only the intercom is being victimized. In this case, it's a relatively
simple thing to filter the +14v coming into the intercom.
You can get a kit of parts from Radio Shack (270-030)
and assemble the choke and capacitor into a small
project box also available from RS. In this case,
the choke wants to face the noise source (bus supply
for the intercom) and the capacitor wants to be across
the power supply terminals to the intercom. You can
haywire the components into the intercom's leadwires
before you go to a lot of trouble for a hard mounting
to see if it does the job.
Plan B would require a filter at each strobe rated for
more current than the 270-030 kit . . . let's see if this
approach will do the job before we get out the big
hammer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: GMA-430 Inteference to Hand-held] |
Take a look at...
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapter
Randy Lervold
RV-8, N558RL
www.rv-8.com
>
> Bob,
>
> What would be needed to run both handheld and Comm Radio on the
same
> antenna? (Cozy, so might have to break fiberglass skin to install a
> second antenna. You are correct I don't have to use the handheld during
> normal ops, but it is convenient.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> I suspect there is no easy solution. The GMA-430
> is probably as shielded as it's going to get in a metal
> enclosure and metal tray . . . the noise is probably getting
> out through the front panel (these tend to be plastic
> these days).
>
> Try hooking the hand held to the comm antenna through
> a short coax jumper. I suspect that when the radio
> is supplied with a signal source more remotely located
> from the GAM-430 that the interference level will drop
> to acceptable levels.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Good Evening Bob,
Want to get your thumbs up on this! After I powered up the "4" with your
power supply I started checking things out. The Val Com 760 radio has a loud
hum or noise in it. Volume control made no difference on intensity. Fuses
were pulled till I found the RMI Encoder and RMI Monitor both produced the
noise. A call to Val Com and their Bob suggested a Radio Shack choke #
270-030A in the power line would do the job. I haven't done that yet, just
wanted your input.
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
AOA has a woman in it. Talks to me every time I turn on the master switch!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darrel Morisse" <dmorisse(at)northland.lib.mi.us> |
Subject: | xpndr mode c problem |
After installing a Narco AT150 transponder and ACK30 encoder and finally
getting an opportunity to test fly with ATC, I've found that not all is
working as it should. At first ATC identified me and all was well.
Transponder was working and mode C was working, although 100' off, but that
could be a static or altimeter problem. About ten minutes later as I was
nearing the radar source (Alpena MI) they suddenly told me that my
transponder signal was no longer being received. Also I wasn't receiving
the interrogation light. Actually I was still about ten miles south at
about 1500 agl. So I turned the transponder off momentarily, then back on
and this time mode A was working just fine, but mode C was indicating 400'
at 2000' msl. I landed at Alpena, BSd with the guys for about an hour and
took off. On the return trip southbound I found the exact same thing.
Mode A was working fine, but Mode C was reading 400' at 2000 msl. I'm
pretty sure this isn't a static problem. Bad pin connection perhaps? Are
there any of you avionics gurus out there that might be able to help me
troubleshoot this? Sure would appreciate it because the nearest avionics
shop is 150 miles across state.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Darrel
Kitfox S5 Outback
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: strobe noise in the radio |
>In a message dated 7/27/2001 10:43:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
>nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
>
>
>>Okay, does the noise go away when the radios are off? If so,
>>only the intercom is being victimized. In this case, it's a relatively
>>simple thing to filter the +14v coming into the intercom.
>>
>>You can get a kit of parts from Radio Shack (270-030)
>>and assemble the choke and capacitor into a small
>>project box also available from RS. In this case,
>>the choke wants to face the noise source (bus supply
>>for the intercom) and the capacitor wants to be across
>>the power supply terminals to the intercom. You can
>>haywire the components into the intercom's leadwires
>>before you go to a lot of trouble for a hard mounting
>>to see if it does the job.
>>
>>Plan B would require a filter at each strobe rated for
>>more current than the 270-030 kit . . . let's see if this
>>approach will do the job before we get out the big
>>hammer.
>
>
>No, the noise only comes on with the radio. It's not present when only the
>intercom is hot.
>
>Danny
Aha! Interesting and important data point. Sounds like
it's getting into the supply lead to the radio. I'm surprised
that the strobes (as noisy as they are . . . they still
meet the requirements for TSO and PMA . . . their
DO-160 noise outputs are below maximums). Sounds
like your radio may be unusually vulnerable.
Let's run one more experiment: Get a pair of 6v lantern
batteries from WallMart . . . hook them in series and use
them to power the radio independently of the aircraft bus.
If the propagation path we're theorizing about right now is
the correct one, the noise will go away when the radio is battery
powered. If it doesn't go away, we've got a tad more detective
work to do.
By the way, I presume were talking about a whining noise
of perhaps variable pitch and not a "pop" that is heard
only when the strobes fire.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds. |
>
>Take a look at...
>http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapter
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, N558RL
>www.rv-8.com
I've looked this gizmo over. It has the potential
for being quite useful but I've got some questions
about it that are yet unanswered:
I suspect that this device contains a relay used
to transfer the comm antenna feedline from a panel
mounted radio to the portable radio when the
hand held is plugged in.
This would imply that a source of power is available
to energize the relay and effect the transfer.
Power can come from two sources . . . either from
ship's power or from the hand held. There is a way
to configure the antenna output of a hand-held so that
it carries some DC as well as signals so that when
connected to the coupler, the coupler's relay knows
that it's time to switch the antenna. The other
way is to supply power from the airplane's bus
and energize the relay by either sensing the presence
of the hand held via DC path back through the antenna
coax -OR- sensing the plug insertion.
Two thoughts: (1) If power comes from the hand held, the
hand-held has to be configured to make this work . . .
that is, the KX99 antenna coupler is a mated accessory
to the KS99 hand-held and it may not work with other
brands. If power comes from the bus and one only
needs to insert the proper plug into the jack to effect
the transfer, then any hand-held will work.
HOWEVER . . . if the reason you've fired up the hand-held
is because the ship's bus is down and the panel mounted
radio doesn't work, the the relay in the coupler
won't work either.
If it were my airplane, I'd do the cabin-mounted
connector thing to make the comm antenna readily
accessible to the hand-held via inexpensive,
reliable, and no-power-required combination of
connectors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds. |
Bob,
This device is completely passive, there is no power supplied or any active
relays whatsoever. My understanding is that when the 1/8" mini-plug is
inserted you are physically breaking the contact with the main comm and
connecting the antenna in the handheld. If it required power to operate it
would defeat the logic of installing it to start with.
Regards,
Randy Lervold
> >Take a look at...
>
>http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20%20King%20Antenna%20Adapte
r
> >
> >Randy Lervold
> >RV-8, N558RL
> >www.rv-8.com
>
> I've looked this gizmo over. It has the potential
> for being quite useful but I've got some questions
> about it that are yet unanswered:
>
> I suspect that this device contains a relay used
> to transfer the comm antenna feedline from a panel
> mounted radio to the portable radio when the
> hand held is plugged in.
>
> This would imply that a source of power is available
> to energize the relay and effect the transfer.
> Power can come from two sources . . . either from
> ship's power or from the hand held. There is a way
> to configure the antenna output of a hand-held so that
> it carries some DC as well as signals so that when
> connected to the coupler, the coupler's relay knows
> that it's time to switch the antenna. The other
> way is to supply power from the airplane's bus
> and energize the relay by either sensing the presence
> of the hand held via DC path back through the antenna
> coax -OR- sensing the plug insertion.
>
> Two thoughts: (1) If power comes from the hand held, the
> hand-held has to be configured to make this work . . .
> that is, the KX99 antenna coupler is a mated accessory
> to the KS99 hand-held and it may not work with other
> brands. If power comes from the bus and one only
> needs to insert the proper plug into the jack to effect
> the transfer, then any hand-held will work.
>
> HOWEVER . . . if the reason you've fired up the hand-held
> is because the ship's bus is down and the panel mounted
> radio doesn't work, the the relay in the coupler
> won't work either.
>
> If it were my airplane, I'd do the cabin-mounted
> connector thing to make the comm antenna readily
> accessible to the hand-held via inexpensive,
> reliable, and no-power-required combination of
> connectors.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: strobe noise in the radio |
>
>
>>. I'm surprised
>>that the strobes (as noisy as they are . . . they still
>>meet the requirements for TSO and PMA . . . their
>>DO-160 noise outputs are below maximums). Sounds
>>like your radio may be unusually vulnerable.
>
>
>My strobes are the ones by Aeroflash........I'm not sure they're TSO'd. My
>comm is a VAL 760.
Note sure either. Let's do the lantern battery
experiment for the radio and make sure the noise
is coming in through the 14v supply. Then we'll
add the filter to the radio's power lead.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds. |
>
>Bob,
>
>This device is completely passive, there is no power supplied or any active
>relays whatsoever. My understanding is that when the 1/8" mini-plug is
>inserted you are physically breaking the contact with the main comm and
>connecting the antenna in the handheld. If it required power to operate it
>would defeat the logic of installing it to start with.
>
>Regards,
>Randy Lervold
Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a
closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal
coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's
antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed"
switch terminal.
If this is the case, then the critter is hardly
worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this
functionality with about $5 worth of parts.
I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this
and get it posted tomorrow.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerome Kaidor <jerryk(at)best.com> |
Subject: | Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds. |
>
> Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a
> closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal
> coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's
> antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed"
> switch terminal.
>
> If this is the case, then the critter is hardly
> worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this
> functionality with about $5 worth of parts.
> I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this
> and get it posted tomorrow.
>
*** That's EXACTLY what it is. It's a 1/8" miniature phone jack, mounted
in a nice little shielded case with a pair of BNC's at the back. It's
got captive nuts to mount it behind the panel, as well as a pair of
tabs to mount it under a panel, your choice. It's FAA/PMA for installation
in a Piper PA-28R-200 ( If I remember corectly ). For us certificated
guys, the PMA means nothing for other airplanes - but it should grease the
skids in getting a Field Approval. Of course, you homebrew guys just
do whatever you want...
$75 is a bit steep, yes. My local avionics shop sold me one for
$45.
- Jerry Kaidor ( jerry(at)tr2.com )
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds |
From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
Bob,
This thread on the shielded passive antenna switch box (al la a phone jacks
built in switches) makes me wonder about the effort we made in the "old
days" (you remember), of protecting radios from each other. Things like
separate antennas as far apart as practicable, transmit switches, relays,
dummy loads, etc. What do we need to do today, in a basic sport plane
without an audio panel to have two radios on line? When I think of this
antenna switch as a back up emergency device---So OK. However, when I think
of two transmission sources, tuned to the same frequency, with the out puts
hanging out in the same box---well you know. Are radios today immune from
overloads and open outputs? If we knew the generalized basic rules of a
simple two radio system it would be very helpful. I think a lot of us will
tune in on the big picture of this issue. Help...... Thanks,
Gary
P.S. No fair combining the power and mic on the same switch, :-).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Bob's Shop Notes: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds. |
>
>>
>> Hmmm . . . okay. That means they're probably using a
>> closed circuit headset jack to interrupt the normal
>> coax pathway and disconnecting the transceiver's
>> antenna path with jack's third, "normally closed"
>> switch terminal.
>>
>> If this is the case, then the critter is hardly
>> worth $75.00. One may easily fabricate this
>> functionality with about $5 worth of parts.
>> I'll do a "shop notes" publication on this
>> and get it posted tomorrow.
>>
>
>*** That's EXACTLY what it is. It's a 1/8" miniature phone jack, mounted
>in a nice little shielded case with a pair of BNC's at the back. It's
>got captive nuts to mount it behind the panel, as well as a pair of
>tabs to mount it under a panel, your choice. It's FAA/PMA for installation
>in a Piper PA-28R-200 ( If I remember corectly ). For us certificated
>guys, the PMA means nothing for other airplanes - but it should grease the
>skids in getting a Field Approval. Of course, you homebrew guys just
>do whatever you want...
>
> $75 is a bit steep, yes. My local avionics shop sold me one for
>$45.
Here's a roll-ur-own suggestion for a whole lot less money
and more compact to boot:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antenna/strobe interference |
Bob;
At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail
strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip.
I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two
places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through the
same plastic conduit from wing root to tip and (2) having the strobe light
firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the RV-6.
What are your thoughts?
Scott Jackson> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Subject: | Control stick wiring |
I'm wiring up the plugs on the control sticks of the Europa: each is fitted
with a MAC trim switch and a PTT. It would be convenient to combine the
grounds (-ve) from each at the plug, and then split them again to run up to
the primary ground point and com radio - or am I creating potential problems
for myself?
all the best,
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antenna/strobe interference |
>
>Bob;
>At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail
>strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip.
> I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two
>places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through the
>same plastic conduit from wing root to tip
No problem with the shielding . . . shielding guards against only
one kind of noise coupling . . . electro-static. It cannot ward off
magnetic coupling which is the major mode for long runs of parallel
conductors.
>and (2) having the strobe light
>firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the RV-6.
This is the biggie . . . and there's probably no way to avoid
it. That strobe tube radiates like a bandit. Is your wingtip
antenna a COMM or NAV? If a NAV antenna, don't worry about it.
VOR is scheduled to die off. Second, the only time strobe noise
is objectionable on VOR is if you're using the VOR receiver to
gather weather info or you're listening to the VOR as a remote
transmitter for some ground facility. In these rare instances,
just turn the strobes off while your listening to the receiver.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Battery Cable Runs |
From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
I have both my positive and negative #4AWG battery leads running inside 3/4" plastic
conduit, from the battery box up to the battery contactor. The conduit
is secured at the battery box and two adel clamps up to the contactor.
Is this acceptable, or should these two leads be separated? Running them in the
conduit makes for a clean installation, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Rob Acker (RV-6, wiring).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Comm antenna coupler for hand-helds |
>
>Bob,
>This thread on the shielded passive antenna switch box (al la a phone jacks
>built in switches) makes me wonder about the effort we made in the "old
>days" (you remember), of protecting radios from each other. Things like
>separate antennas as far apart as practicable, transmit switches, relays,
>dummy loads, etc. What do we need to do today, in a basic sport plane
>without an audio panel to have two radios on line?
There were tons of "rules-of-thumb" mixed together with
a few pounds of common sense. In a nutshell, there is
little to be concerned with in terms of one radio's ability
to do damage to another radio. Most issues are based in
performance . . . i.e. the ability of one radio to continue
to receive while you're transmitting on another . . . OR the
ability of navigation equipment to provide good contiguous
steering data in spite of strong local sources of RF on the
airplane.
Obviously, we'd still like to do the best we know how to do
but there are increasingly small arenas in which to work. Antenna
spacing is limited by aircraft size and esthetics. Bottom line
is to do the best you can with present constraints and see how
the system performs. If performance comes up lacking, then
you'll have to do something different which will probably compromise
your wishes for esthetics.
> When I think of this
>antenna switch as a back up emergency device---So OK. However, when I think
>of two transmission sources, tuned to the same frequency, with the out puts
>hanging out in the same box---well you know. Are radios today immune from
>overloads and open outputs? If we knew the generalized basic rules of a
>simple two radio system it would be very helpful. I think a lot of us will
>tune in on the big picture of this issue.
There is no danger with respect to the panel mounted radio
doing damage to the hand held or vise-versa with the antenna
coupler I've described. When the hand held is plugged in,
the antenna is disconnected from the panel mounted radio . . .
most radios are protected from damage for transmitting into
an open circuit. But if you've plugged the hand held in,
presumably the panel mounted radio is compromised so you
wouldn't be trying to use it anyhow.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Good Evening Bob,
>Want to get your thumbs up on this! After I powered up the "4" with your
>power supply I started checking things out. The Val Com 760 radio has a loud
>hum or noise in it. Volume control made no difference on intensity. Fuses
>were pulled till I found the RMI Encoder and RMI Monitor both produced the
>noise. A call to Val Com and their Bob suggested a Radio Shack choke #
>270-030A in the power line would do the job. I haven't done that yet, just
>wanted your input.
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>AOA has a woman in it. Talks to me every time I turn on the master switch!
Hmmmm . . . I'm disappointed that the VAL Com product is
vulnerable to this. Sounds like they didn't do their homework.
Try the choke (and the capacitor that comes with the kit).
Put the choke in series with the power coming into the radio
and the capacitor in parallel with the power on the radio side
of the choke . . the capacitor is polarity sensitive so observe
it's markings.
Let me know how this works.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: lantern batteries |
>Bob,
>
>You responded to a question by suggesting one "go to Walmart and get a couple
of 6 volt lantern batteries...."
>
>I wanted to relate my experience with lantern batteries.
>
>I had an Oregon Avionics intercom and Telex headsets which I used in rented Cessnas
some years ago. The intercom used either a 12V cigarette lighter plug, sometime
not available or a 9V battery which was always conveniently near death
and pricey. I decided to throw a 12V lantern batterywith 12V cigar lighter socket
into my flight bag and eliminate my battery and connection problems forever.
>
>But the first battery went dead in only a couple of hours. I complained to the
store owner and got a free replacement. The second battery, after landing one
day, was red hot and I just managed to pull it out of the cockpit by the wires
and throw it--smoking--onto the asphalt. Yikes!
>
>I surmised the construction of such batteries does not like sudden pressure changes.
The 12V was not connected to the AC (except the audio ground I guess) Your
thoughts?
>
I am mystified by your experience. The lantern batteries are simply
arrays of "F" sized cells that have been around for about 60 years . . .
first in carbon-zinc, then in Ni-Cad and now in alkaline. They
are close cousins to the cells used in thousands of other products
that fly on airplanes and experience the same pressure changes
as the situation you describe.
I'm inclined to suspect a quality problem with the way the
batteries were assembled. Do you recall the brand? It would
have been interesting to take the smoker apart and do a failure
analysis of the battery. The only time I've even come close to
getting any battery real hot was due to external short or overload
in stuff I connected to it.
I think the likelihood of a similar event happening to you
again is VERY remote.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Cable Runs |
>
>
>I have both my positive and negative #4AWG battery leads running inside 3/4" plastic
conduit, from the battery box up to the battery contactor. The conduit
is secured at the battery box and two adel clamps up to the contactor.
>
>Is this acceptable, or should these two leads be separated? Running them in the
conduit makes for a clean installation, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6, wiring).
It is a very GOOD thing to keep these wires together.
If you have room for conduit, do I infer that the battery
is located behind the seat? If so, don't rip anything out
now but be sensitive to possible future cranking performance
issues. You may want to change out for 2AWG if cold weather
starting is less vigorous than you would like.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Control stick wiring |
>
>I'm wiring up the plugs on the control sticks of the Europa: each is fitted
>with a MAC trim switch and a PTT. It would be convenient to combine the
>grounds (-ve) from each at the plug, and then split them again to run up to
>the primary ground point and com radio - or am I creating potential problems
>for myself?
>
>all the best,
>
>Miles
I'd rather see separate grounds . . . you probably will experience
no performance issues with a single ground . . . but one ground
coming loose will take down two systems. My personal preference
is to keep such things independent of each other.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------------
( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
( smoke screen of impossibility." )
( Charles F. Kettering )
----------------------------------------------
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Battery Cable Runs |
From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Bob, as always thanks for your assistance. I was worried about the possibility
of positive meeting negative at 10,000 ft. inside the cockpit, due to chaffing
and the like. I take it from your response the tefzel insulation adequately
protects againt this possibility.
My battery box is in the standard RV-6 location, just behind the firewall with
a 4 ft. total run to the starter. The conduit to the battery contactor is only
12" long, the positive battery lead ends there while the negative lead continues
on to the firewall ground block.
Rob.
>
> It is a very GOOD thing to keep these wires together.
> If you have room for conduit, do I infer that the battery
> is located behind the seat? If so, don't rip anything out
> now but be sensitive to possible future cranking performance
> issues. You may want to change out for 2AWG if cold weather
> starting is less vigorous than you would like.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jayeandscott" <jayeandscott(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antenna/strobe interference |
Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my
'Connection #9 late last night.
I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing
us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm.
Sounds like it won't work .
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:37 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Antenna/strobe interference
>
> >
> >Bob;
> >At present I'm planning a fuselage-mounted powerpack firing wing and tail
> >strobes with a comm antenna mounted in the wingtip.
> > I'm worried that this may be asking too much of the shielding in two
> >places:(1) running both the antenna coax and the hi-voltage lead through
the
> >same plastic conduit from wing root to tip
>
> No problem with the shielding . . . shielding guards against only
> one kind of noise coupling . . . electro-static. It cannot ward off
> magnetic coupling which is the major mode for long runs of parallel
> conductors.
>
>
> >and (2) having the strobe light
> >firing away only inches from the antenna in the fiberglass tip of the
RV-6.
>
> This is the biggie . . . and there's probably no way to avoid
> it. That strobe tube radiates like a bandit. Is your wingtip
> antenna a COMM or NAV? If a NAV antenna, don't worry about it.
> VOR is scheduled to die off. Second, the only time strobe noise
> is objectionable on VOR is if you're using the VOR receiver to
> gather weather info or you're listening to the VOR as a remote
> transmitter for some ground facility. In these rare instances,
> just turn the strobes off while your listening to the receiver.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ( "The Wright brothers flew right through the )
> ( smoke screen of impossibility." )
> ( Charles F. Kettering )
> ----------------------------------------------
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Antenna/strobe interference |
>
>Thanks for the prompt reply and I found more information upon rereading my
>'Connection #9 late last night.
>I wasn't going to bother with VOR at all-what with all the mountains ringing
>us here in Vancouver-the antenna was going to be a comm.
>Sounds like it won't work .
I'd get on the RV-list and see what other folk's
experiences have been. The noise levels may be
acceptable to most users. In any case, I'd go ahead
and try it. The worst thing that happens is that you
have to add a fuselage mounted antenna at a later date.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Battery Cable Runs |
>
>
>Bob, as always thanks for your assistance. I was worried about the possibility
of positive meeting negative at 10,000 ft. inside the cockpit, due to chaffing
and the like. I take it from your response the tefzel insulation adequately
protects againt this possibility.
June 26, 2001 - July 30, 2001
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ag