AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cc
June 10, 2003 - June 24, 2003
>>
>>-John R.
>>
>>RSwanson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had
>>>
>>>
>no
>
>
>>>problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left
>>>
>>>
>over
>
>
>>>from my RC days.
>>
>>
>>>R
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
>>>To:
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
>>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
>>>>
>>>>Andy,
>>>>
>>>>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
>>>was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
>>>you have this problem, what is your secret?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mark Means
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
>>>>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
>>>>place. Works very well.
>>>>
>>>>Andy Morehouse
>>>>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
>>>>future RV builder
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers(at)fdic.gov> |
| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
>
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
>turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
>aircraft use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
>electric oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
>crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
>low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
>enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
>container is empty.
>
>What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
>the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
>detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
>pump off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the
>oil gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
>detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
>Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
>switch that works as described above?
Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
Bob . . .
Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
proper type of potentiometer to use?
Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
motor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
| From: | "Lockamy, Jack L NA" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil> |
Avery Tools (www.averytools.com) sells packages of 25 for $5.50.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7AQB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD <John.Livingston(at)wpafb.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
Do you really need this second sump? Wouldn't the oil be pushed back up into the
engine sump by the oil pumped to the turbocharger?
-----Original Message-----
From: Rogers, Bob J. [mailto:BRogers(at)fdic.gov]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Oil Level Switch
>
>I am planning to have a small container to catch the oil draining from the
>turbocharger on my Mazda RX-7 Rotary engine (which is converted for
>aircraft use on the Mustang II kitplane that I am building) and will use an
>electric oil pump to transfer the oil from the container back to the engine
>crankcase. This is necessary because my aftermarket turbo is mounted too
>low for a gravity drain-back. The electric pump only needs to operate long
>enough to pump oil out of the container when it gets full and stop when the
>container is empty.
>
>What I am looking for is some sort of a sensor/switch that will detect when
>the oil level is at the top of the container to turn the pump on, and will
>detect when the oil level is at the bottom of the container to turn the
>pump off. I have seen several devices/methods to turn a switch on when the
>oil gets too low, but what I need is just the opposite and it needs to
>detect/switch at maximum and minimum levels.
>
>Does anyone have suggestions or ideas regarding an oil level sensor with a
>switch that works as described above?
Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
Bob . . .
Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
proper type of potentiometer to use?
Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
motor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil Level Switch
>
>
> > > Last time I took on a similar
> >
> > Guys, There is way more to this oil return from the turbo then what you are
> > thinking. First, the oil flow rate is way higher through a turbo. Most have
a
> > 3/16 to 1/4" line feeding them so figure a gallon a minute. Second, the oil
> > coming out of a turbo that is spinning 100,000 to 130,000 rpm's a minute is
not a
> > liquid. it is a foamy state and it needs to sit in a tank for some time to
de
> > emulsify so it can be pumped. Third, it is coming out of the turbo bearing
> > housing at twice the oil temp then in your engine. You can figure oil temp
out
> > of a turbo to be in the 300 degree range. Now the real problem is finding a
> > pump that can pump a foamy substance that is 300 degrees and at least at one
> > gallon a minute and is electric powered. I researched this a few years back
and
> > couldn't come up with a pump. I would love to see your specs for all your
> > componants. Of course this is just my opinion and thats coming from a guy who
is
> > stuffing an all aluminum 349 cu in. stroker V-8 Ford into my Zenith 801.
> >
> > Ben Haas N801BH.
> >
> Hi Ben,
>
> Regarding turbos and oil, as usual - it depends. The oil pressure needed
to keep a turbo happily lubricated ranges from approx 10-15 psi when at idle
to approx 45-60 psi at full gallop. However, the flow rate is not quite as much
as you indicated (at least not with the turbos I am familiar with) and will
seldom exceed 1/2 gallon/min for our size turbos (less than 3"dia wheels).
Older turbos (before water cooling) often did have large oil flow for cooling
as well as lubrication purposes - newer ones with water cooling generally have
less oil flow).
>
> If you are not using a water cooled turbo then the oil temps can get a bit
high as the oil picks up heat off the turbine shaft and housing and can get
up around 60-80F above the inlet oil temp when at full boost, but the relative
small amount of oil so heated (when compared to the total oil capacity of the
engine) will seldom elevate the sump oil temp more than 5F-10F during boost.
The principal reason you see you oil temperature increase during boost is because
you engine is producing more power and therefore more waste heat
>
> There is the exception, of course, and that is if you shut the engine down after
running the turbo hard - without letting the turbocharger cool down, then
with no new oil/oil movement through the turbocharger, the oil remaining can
indeed reach 300F or more and that will generally lead to a condition known as
"coking" of the shaft and ultimately to bearing/shaft wear and failure. The
water cooled turbos are generally not nearly as bad under those conditions as
even with the engine off the water will still tend to carry heat away from the
turbocharger. The oil temp should not exceed 250-260F and I highly recommend
that if you are using a turbo, then to use synthetic oil with its higher temperature
tolerance.
>
> Totally agree about the foamy state of the oil as it drains from the turbo, one
of the reasons the turbos have such large drain orifices compared to the oil
inlet. So you also need a container/sump to collect the foamy oil and give
it a chance to settle out. Otherwise, as you indicate, it will be difficult
for any pump to pump frothy oil. However, a pint size container is generally
sufficient to accomplish this. I would recommend putting a slanting plate (drilled
with 1/8" dia holes) from near the oil entrance to approx 3/4 way down
the tank that spans the diameter of the tank. The oil inlet should be placed
so that the frothy oil drops onto this plate (splitting oil flow over both sides
of the plate as much as possible). This plate will induce the oil/air bubbles
to collapse releasing the oil to flow down the plate to the bottom of the
tank in liquid form to be pumped out by the scavenger pump.
>
> Regarding the scavenger pump, I would recommend a diaphragm type pump or piston
type over a rotary. A rotary/vane impeller type pick up might have more trouble
if the oil were still a bit frothy than a diaphragm or piston type pump.
It needs to be a low-pressure, high volume type pump as all it needs to do it
pump the oil back into the engine sump. A recommend capacity is 1 1/2 times
the expected oil inflow. So if you expect 0.5/gpm of oil flow then a 1.5 gallon/min
pump should do the job.
>
> Regarding turbos and aircraft, its important to verify that the change in operating
conditions (i.e. decrease in ambient pressure) as you climb in altitude
does not push your compressor wheel into the "surge" zone. If the boost pressure
is kept constant during the climb, then the pressure ratio of P1/P2 (P1
ambient, P2boost) will increase as P1 decreases and that will move the operating
point vertically on most compressor maps (toward the surge zone on the left
hand side of the graph lines). FWIW
>
OOPS! The above should read P2/P1 vice P1/P2.
> Ed Anderson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
I just use word, and the Lucida 9 pt font because of the character shapes,
and create 9 labels across. I usually have two of each end of the wire, but
would use others where there are slices and such. I use an ink jet on plain
paper. Once I print them out, I cut to a size, just a little longer and
wider that the label text. I place that label on clear tape to protect the
ink. I then roll the clear tape on the wire. The goal is to get it
wrapped around the wire and really protect the label from the elements. I
then use shrink tubing over that. This give the hard protection seems to
work well for me. Because of the wire insulation does not stick well to the
tape, I am able to move the label around as needed.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
I haven't tried to use the P-Touch TZ-tapes for wiring myself yet; I
got a labeler when this topic first went round 6 months ago and (because
I was cheap and bought the low-end labeler, the PT-65...) discovered
exactly what you say - the M-type tape it uses is totally unsuited for
wiring - I almost returned it, but find it handy around the office so
that's what I use it for now - although if my office burns up, I'll be
in a real pickle trying to identify the ashes, because all the labels
will turn completely black! ;-)
But, I did a little more research, and discovered the TZ-tapes, used by
the higher-end labelers, are much more resistant to heat... but I hadn't
tested them in the oven, so I just did now - 400 degrees F for 1 hour
has no effect - and I doubt that anywhere even in the engine compartment
(other than mounting directly on the cylinders or exhaust) will ever see
400 degrees... I really got the black-on-clear tape for labeling the
instrument panel, but now it looks like they could be used for wiring
too, apparently even in the engine compartment (although I don't think
I'd label the EGT leads!). And it's definitely more convenient than
laser printing, when you want to make a label on the spot.
-John R.
(p.s.: apparently I was wrong about the "M" tapes being paper - their
website says they are METAL! (??) I don't know if I'd really believe
that (they tear like paper), but it did react very strangely in the oven
- it actually swells and puffs up! - and no, I'm not going to try it in
the microwave!!)
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>>
>>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>>
>>-John R.
>>
>>
>
> Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
> labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
> tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
> unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
> Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
> enough to use on 22AWG wire.
>
> See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
> 6pt.
>
> Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
> laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
> from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
> may disappear with time).
>
> The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
> the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
> label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
> of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
> if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
> it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
> matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
>
> On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
> and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
> the heat shrink slides over it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
Hi Bob and all,
Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you think of
the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
Pros :
- No additional drag
- Short coax run
Cons :
-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
-What other inconvenients do you see ?
Any advice appreciated,
Thanks
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
do it this way.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> you think of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
>
>
> _-
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Gilles,
Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works perfect:
http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
> think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Forgot one detail, make sure you remove the mounting magnets first
(otherwise your compass goes crazy, ask me how I know ).
Rob.
> Gilles,
>
> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
> perfect:
>
> http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
>> Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket(at)comcast.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
-->
Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
do it this way.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> you think of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
>
> Cons :
> -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> is it
> forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>
> Any advice appreciated,
> Thanks
>
> Gilles
>
>
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= !! NEWish !!
> _-
>
======================================================================_-
= List Related Information
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Heinen" <mjheinen(at)adelphia.net> |
I have a Kroy pc-3000 that prints on shrink wrap. If you buy enough cartages
they give you the printer free. You have a choice of a stand alone printer
with built in fonts or the PC-3000 prints in any font you have on your
computer as well as any graphic (gray scale) can be printed on multiple size
and types of labels as well as heat shrink tubes and wire wraps. I suppose a
few builders could go together and buy a cartage or two and then send the
printer around the block!
Not sure if I can mention where I got mine but Hanover Technical was the
place and Don Lovette will work with you to come up with what you need. Very
helpful.
http://members.tripod.com/~HANOVER_TECHNICAL/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
Make sure that the top of the antenna is still "up". May complicate the
mount, but essential for proper operation.
Dick Tasker
Don Honabach wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
>>>
>>>
>
>Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
>
>Don
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket(at)comcast.net]
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>-->
>
>Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
>at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
>underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
>(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
>do it this way.
>
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>
>><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>
>>Hi Bob and all,
>>
>>Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
>>you think of
>>the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>>Pros :
>>- No additional drag
>>- Short coax run
>>
>>Cons :
>>-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
>>is it
>>forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>>-What other inconvenients do you see ?
>>
>>Any advice appreciated,
>>Thanks
>>
>>Gilles
>>
>>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>
>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= !! NEWish !!
>
>
>>_-
>>
>>
>>
>======================================================================_-
>= List Related Information
>
>
>>_-
>>======================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
Rob,
Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions aren't
very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette lighter power
adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't click all the rest.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
> Gilles,
>
> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
perfect:
>
>
http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>
>
> > Hi Bob and all,
> >
> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
> > think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> > Pros :
> > - No additional drag
> > - Short coax run
> >
> > Cons :
> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
> > forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
> >
> > Any advice appreciated,
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gilles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
You also want it as high as you can get it without having it rub against
the inside of the cowl. The goal is to give the antenna a "view" of the
entire sky including the horizon, or as much of it as possible. The metal
of the firewall and boot cowl block the signal from the rear of the
airplane but you can get a bit more angle and view of the aft horizon if
you move the antenna forward, away from the firewall. GPS satellites that
are lower in the sky provide more accurate position data in the x-y
plane. Satellites high in the sky provide better altitude information,
which isn't as useful.
scot
>
>
>Make sure that the top of the antenna is still "up". May complicate the
>mount, but essential for proper operation.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Don Honabach wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Mount it to the engine side of your firewall...
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >Would of never thought of that in a million years. Thanks for sharing...
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Randy Pflanzer [mailto:F1Rocket(at)comcast.net]
> >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> >
> >
> >-->
> >
> >Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
> >at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
> >underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
> >(it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
> >do it this way.
> >
> >Randy
> >F1 Rocket
> >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
> >
> >
> >
> >><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >>
> >>Hi Bob and all,
> >>
> >>Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> >>you think of
> >>the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> >>Pros :
> >>- No additional drag
> >>- Short coax run
> >>
> >>Cons :
> >>-Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> >>is it
> >>forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> >>-What other inconvenients do you see ?
> >>
> >>Any advice appreciated,
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Gilles
> >>
> >>
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= !! NEWish !!
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >======================================================================_-
> >= List Related Information
> >
> >
> >>_-
> >>======================================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
| From: | <racker(at)rmci.net> |
Dave,
You are probably clicking on the links to other items (at the top of the
page). Scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will see two pics of
the antenna (MCX and BNC connector versions).
Rob.
>
>
> Rob,
>
> Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions
> aren't very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette
> lighter power adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't
> click all the rest.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>>
>> Gilles,
>>
>> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
> perfect:
>>
>>
> http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>>
>> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>>
>>
>> > Hi Bob and all,
>> >
>> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
>> think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>> > Pros :
>> > - No additional drag
>> > - Short coax run
>> >
>> > Cons :
>> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is
>> it forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>> >
>> > Any advice appreciated,
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Gilles
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
Wont engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
>
>
>Rob,
>
>Which item (antenna) on that web page did you buy? The descriptions aren't
>very robust when you click on each item - some are cigarette lighter power
>adapters, 2nd from top on left is an antenna - didn't click all the rest.
>
>David
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
>>
>> Gilles,
>>
>> Active gain, small, black, cheap. Mounted on my glareshield, works
>perfect:
>>
>>
>http://www.lowe-electronics.com/acatalog/Lowe_Electronics_Accessories_24.html
>>
>> Rob Acker (RV-6, 34 hrs)
>>
>>
>> > Hi Bob and all,
>> >
>> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you
>> > think of the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
>> > Pros :
>> > - No additional drag
>> > - Short coax run
>> >
>> > Cons :
>> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why is it
>> > forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
>> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
>> >
>> > Any advice appreciated,
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Gilles
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | GPS antenna question |
> Won't engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
>
It most definitely affect the antenna, the only question is how much. I
would defy anyone to find a method of measuring the lost airspeed caused
by a tear drop shaped GPS antenna when it is mounted on the turtledeck.
My GPS antenna cost a lot of money, and I would not really want to
subject it to 200 degree temps on a regular basis. Probably won't hurt
it, but for what gain?
Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
be much, but for what gain?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
www.rvforum.org
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
In a message dated 6/10/03 5:32:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
alexpeterson(at)usjet.net writes:
> Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
> which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
> be much, but for what gain?
>
Good Evening All,
Many folks have very successfully placed a GPS antenna beneath the fabric on
fabric covered airplanes. I have seen it on Staggerwings and I tried it on my
Piper Pacer. Worked great!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
They also sell black TZ labels with white letters. That's what I used on
my panel, since it was flat black.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rourke" <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
> I haven't tried to use the P-Touch TZ-tapes for wiring myself yet; I
> got a labeler when this topic first went round 6 months ago and (because
> I was cheap and bought the low-end labeler, the PT-65...) discovered
> exactly what you say - the M-type tape it uses is totally unsuited for
> wiring - I almost returned it, but find it handy around the office so
> that's what I use it for now - although if my office burns up, I'll be
> in a real pickle trying to identify the ashes, because all the labels
> will turn completely black! ;-)
>
> But, I did a little more research, and discovered the TZ-tapes, used by
> the higher-end labelers, are much more resistant to heat... but I hadn't
> tested them in the oven, so I just did now - 400 degrees F for 1 hour
> has no effect - and I doubt that anywhere even in the engine compartment
> (other than mounting directly on the cylinders or exhaust) will ever see
> 400 degrees... I really got the black-on-clear tape for labeling the
> instrument panel, but now it looks like they could be used for wiring
> too, apparently even in the engine compartment (although I don't think
> I'd label the EGT leads!). And it's definitely more convenient than
> laser printing, when you want to make a label on the spot.
>
> -John R.
>
> (p.s.: apparently I was wrong about the "M" tapes being paper - their
> website says they are METAL! (??) I don't know if I'd really believe
> that (they tear like paper), but it did react very strangely in the oven
> - it actually swells and puffs up! - and no, I'm not going to try it in
> the microwave!!)
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >><jrourke@allied-computer.com>
> >>
> >>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
> >>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
> >>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
> >>
> >>-John R.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Not sure what is being referred to by "laminated" and "paper"
> > labels here. I have a label maker that puts out adhesive backed
> > tape which uses a thermal process to print the text . . . totally
> > unsuited to this task. Whole label goes black under the heat shrink.
> > Further, I've not seen any label maker that puts out a label small
> > enough to use on 22AWG wire.
> >
> > See picture at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s817c.jpg
> > The wire at the top is 22AWG . . . the type is a single row of
> > 6pt.
> >
> > Labels printed on ordinary paper (or Avery label material) in a
> > laser or inkjet printer are fine (caution on using colored lettering
> > from inkjet . . . some inks are not fade resistant . . . your numbers
> > may disappear with time).
> >
> > The Avery label material is not suggested for its ability to hold
> > the label on the wire . . . you will find that when you put a
> > label on a 22AWG wire, the label will consist of a single line
> > of 6pt type. This skinny piece of paper is easier to work with
> > if it sorta sticks to the wire while you pull the heat shrink over
> > it. Once the heat shrink is centered over the label, it doesn't
> > matter if the label has adhesive on it or not.
> >
> > On FAT wires, a column of numbers can be wrapped around the wire
> > and again, an adhesive backing can hold the label in place while
> > the heat shrink slides over it.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <F1Rocket(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
I suspect that if you place the antenna on the dash of your airplane, and
that dash is painted black like most of them, then you subject the antenna
to temperatures in excess of 230 degrees on a routine basis. I don't know
if the heat effects the antenna's ability to receive the signal (I doubt
it), but I'm not a radio antenna expert. It is purely a matter of personal
choice. You can mount it outside, your can mount it on your dash, and you
can mount it in your engine compartment. As long as it has a clear view of
as much of the sky as possible, you'll be just fine.
Randy
F1 Rocket
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
>
> > Won't engine compartment heat affect the GPS antenna over time?
> >
>
> It most definitely affect the antenna, the only question is how much. I
> would defy anyone to find a method of measuring the lost airspeed caused
> by a tear drop shaped GPS antenna when it is mounted on the turtledeck.
> My GPS antenna cost a lot of money, and I would not really want to
> subject it to 200 degree temps on a regular basis. Probably won't hurt
> it, but for what gain?
>
> Another consideration is that most paint colors contain metal oxides,
> which will attenuate the signal some non-zero amount. Again, might not
> be much, but for what gain?
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 308 hours
> www.rvforum.org
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
> Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do you think
of
> the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> Pros :
> - No additional drag
> - Short coax run
The GPS antenna on my 4 is under the canopy on the fuselage top behind the
rear seat.....works fine.
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Level Switch |
>
>
> Last time I took on a similar project, it turned out to be
> more practical to just put a timer on the pump. Run it for
> so many minutes out of every hour. No switches to procure,
> calibrate, maintain or fail to work. Figure out what the
> max oil flow rate is to be expected. Triple or quadruple that
> number. I suspect you can pump that amount of liquid in
> a minute or so with even a small pump. I designed the timer
> so that it ran the prescribed period of time at first power-up
> and then once per hour after that at long as power stayed on.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
>flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
>settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
>Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
>and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
>http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
>
>I have two additional questions. The timer requires external potentiometers
>to set the duty cycles. Do you have any suggestions as to the best or
>proper type of potentiometer to use?
I'd go fully digital. One of the PIC micro-controllers can be
programmed to put out a "1" on a pin for so many seconds out of
every other so many seconds. In fact, one of the cheap chips
I use has quite a number of output pins that could be programmed
for say 1%, 2%, 4%, 7%, 10% etc duty cycles. This way the user
could choose which pin most closely meets the needs for transferring
oil without running the pump any more than necessary.
>Secondly, I want to know when the pump is running by having a small light on
>the panel come on. I know that if I hook a light bulb in parallel with the
>pump, I will know when the timer switch is on, but not necessarily if the
>pump is actually running. How do I hook up a small light bulb in a circuit
>that detects when electricity is actually passing through the scavenge pump
>motor?
You can wind a coil of wire around a reed relay capsule to make
a current relay . . . contact close if the motor IS powered and
IS drawing current. You could fold this back to the uController
to light a warning light if the motor doesn't respond by drawing
current when a RUN command is issued.
There are some other schemes for current detection that would
work nicely for a uContoller interface as well.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | cable tie mounts |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Steve Richard"
<>
6/10/2003
Hello Steve, One cannot trust the inexpensive sticky back self adhesive cable
tie mounts such as available from Radio Shack to hold long term.
Here is how I solved the cable mount problem. I bought a packet of 100 of the
inexpensive plain nylon four way cable tie mounts designed to be fastened on
with a # 6 screw and modified them. I modified them by roughing up the back of
the mounts with sand paper and gluing them in a row to a one inch wide strip
of cut off fiberglass scrap using laminating epoxy. This ensured that the
slots for the ties would not be fouled.##
When the epoxy cured I cut half way between each of the mounts so that I had
a whole bunch of nylon four way cable tie mounts glued to one inch squares of
fiberglass. When it came time to use them I applied a bit of fast curing
hardware store type gel epoxy that comes in push out tubes. The gel epoxy holds
them in place until cured.
This method is fast, easy, permanent enough, and pretty inexpensive. I am
very generous with applying these mounts wherever they might possibly be needed
because they are so ready to use once made up and inexpensive.
I bought my mounts from Newark for $18.34 for 100. They are Voltrex type
VRTH-05 with Newark stock number 81N2595. (My Newark catalog incorrectly describes
them as swivel head mount -- they are not. They are the non adhesive version
of the Voltrex type VRTH-05A).
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
##PS: If you don't have such scrap available you can lay out a 10 inch by 10
inch square of several layers of fiberglass. When that layup has cured you can
glue a mount in the middle of each one inch square.** When that has cured you
can cut the layup into one inch squares and you are ready to go for
installation as needed.
**PS: Or if you are really clever / eager you can put the cable tie mounts
right on the curing lay up and avoid the subsequent gluing on step.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
| Subject: | cable tie mounts |
Thanks to all for the cable tie mount ideas. Just what I needed.
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Scavenge Pump Controller |
>
> >
> >Thanks for the excellent suggestion! Using a timer should work, since the
> >flow of oil out of the turbo is pretty constant (especially at cruise power
> >settings). I found a timer that looks like it would be suitable from
> >Artisan http://www.artisancontrols.com/pdf/4615.pdf Model # 4615A-2-3-A
> >and the scavenge pump is from Westech.
> >http://westech.home.mindspring.com/home.htm
> >
Here's a schematic . . . takes less than a dozen
parts and is infinitely "modifiable" through the
programming port.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/ScavengeController.gif
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cable tie mounts |
Very interesting discussion, I'm just wondering, how do you mount the
cabling on a steel cage, conduits, cable ties only?
Many thanks for your ideas here
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Yep, spell checker
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Harold Kovac
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
-->
did you mean various?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
>
> HI Bob and all,
>
> I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant
> switches available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a
> normal oil temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
>
> What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
>
> Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
> the normal oil temp circuit.
>
> Ian
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Yep, spell checker
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Harold Kovac
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
-->
did you mean various?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oil temp switch
>
> HI Bob and all,
>
> I know that there are vicarious NO and NC temperature dependant
> switches available, I was thinking of placing one on my sump (with a
> normal oil temp pickup as well) in various temp ratings.
>
> What epoxy would allow me to glue this to the sump?
>
> Thinking of driving a overtemp buzzer and LED on a separate circuit to
> the normal oil temp circuit.
>
> Ian
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cable Tie Mounts |
I do sell the Panduit Lightening Hole cable tie mounts on my site. These are the
mounts for running cables through rib (and other) lightening holes.
As for tube mounts, a figure-eight with duct-tape won't work?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
".telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York
and his head meows in Los Angeles. And radio operates exactly the same way--
you send signals here, they receive them there.
The only difference is that there is no cat."
--Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | d-Sub variation for the solder-challenged |
This isn't my 1st choice (I have way too much experience soldering),
but for those who choose d-Sub connectors & don't want to solder or
crimp, I just noticed these in a wiring trade publication. Similar wire
terminations seem to be reliable in industrial environments.
http://www.phoenixcon.com/subcon/
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com> |
Affirmative - I use the laminated labels and have never had this problem.
Sorry I was vague on this point - I didn't realize there was such a thing as
paper pTouch labels.
>From: John Rourke <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
<jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>I think you have to use the laminated labels, not the paper ones, for
>fairly good immunity to heat.. I tested the paper ones in my oven, they
>totally blacked out... I haven't tried the laminated ones yet though.
>-John R.
>RSwanson wrote:
>
>Must be too much heat. I also used the PTouch for all my labels and had no
>problem. I didn't use a regular heatgun, but a MonoCoat heatgun left over
>from my RC days.
>R
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net>
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire labels
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>From: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5(at)attbi.com>
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labels
>>
>>Andy,
>>
>>I tried the pTouch labels with heat shrink but found that being thermal
>>
>>
>they would often turn black when shrinking the tubing. Maybe my heat gun
>was too hot but I got frustrated after several attempts and gave up. Did
>you have this problem, what is your secret?
>
>
>>Mark Means
>>
>>
>>I make the labels using a pTouch style labeler. They're easy to make and
>>stick to the wire while I slide and position the clear heat shrink into
>>place. Works very well.
>>
>>Andy Morehouse
>>Grumman AA-5 N7167L
>>future RV builder
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna question |
Has anyone placed a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV?
Seems like a good solution??
Robert
Randy Pflanzer wrote:
>
> Here's another option. Mount it to the engine side of your firewall,
> at the top, on a plate that points it up toward the sky. It will sit
> underneath your fiberglass cowl. That way, it is not in the slipstream
> (it's not visible at all) and the coax run is still short. Many RV'ers
> do it this way.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 1:11 pm
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
> > <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> > Hi Bob and all,
> >
> > Instead of exposing our GPS antenna in the slipstream, what do
> > you think of
> > the idea of intalling it on the glareshield ?
> > Pros :
> > - No additional drag
> > - Short coax run
> >
> > Cons :
> > -Shiny white antenna upon dull black glareshield (By the way, why
> > is it
> > forbidden to paint those antennas ?)
> > -What other inconvenients do you see ?
> >
> > Any advice appreciated,
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Battery contactor selection |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Ken Walck (kwalck(at)charter.net) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 at 18:40:34
>
>Wednesday, June 11, 2003
>
>Ken Walck
>
>,
>Email: kwalck(at)charter.net
>Comments/Questions: Greetings Bob,
>
>I need to order a solenoid but don't know which one, the continuous duty
>or cross-feed contactor. I wonder if you could help me troubleshoot a
>related problem and direct me to which solenoid to purchase.
They are the same product to begin with, they just have different
diode arrangements.
>I bought a Vari-EZE last November, which has a battery solenoid and a pull
>cable mechanism that engages a mechanical switch for the starter as found
>on old C-150's I believe.
Yes, the manually switched and engaged starters were used on
a number of engines in the o-200 and o-300 families from
C-140 through C-170
>The problem is that I've gone through four solenoids since I bought
>it. The original solenoid quit working immediately and it was replaced
>with a heavy-duty automotive solenoid. That one quit after a while and I
>figured that the fumes from the charging battery were corroding the
>contacts inside (evidenced by green corrosion inside). Then I tried a
>solenoid from Wicks thinking that maybe an aviation application might
>help, and I also replaced the battery with a heavier duty one. This one
>never really worked well (chattered when the starter motor was engaged)
>since the new battery had to be charged and produced corrosive fumes once
>again, I thought. Finally I installed a marine solenoid that was
>sealed. Its first flight after a month or so of sitting was fine but the
>next time I wanted to fly, 2 days later, there was no response through the
>solenoid. Voltage gets to the input lead and through the switch but the
>output post is totally dead.
>
>I should mention that there is a direct connection from the battery ground
>to the solenoid ground, as well as from the toggle switch ground to the
>solenoid ground. Is this a problem?
What kind of battery are you using? . . . there's NO reason
to have corrosive gasses from any battery these days. You should
be using a sealed lead-acid battery. Poor battery contactor
life can generally be attributed to poor battery choice.
It's voltage drops too low during cranking to keep good closure
pressure on the contactor's inards.
Check out batteries on
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
my favorite battery for light aircraft is the LC-RD1217P described at
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-RD1217P.pdf
This battery is made by many manufacturers and can usually be
purchased locally for less than $75
Given the distance between battery and engine, your
fat wires should be 2AWG. After these conditions are
met, about any contactor should do fine as a battery
disconnect device. The continuous duty on shown on
our website will be adequate.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
| Subject: | re: dsub variation |
06/12/2003 10:14:06 AM
sorry to say, but those screw in termination blocks don't use locking
screws and
are likely to shake loose in the aviation environment. I use them in my lab
with no
problem, but then I don't have an engine bolted on there!
Ira
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator problems . . . |
>Did I do or say something wrong? I emailed you on the 13th of May if you
>would help me with a wiring problem and you said you would look at it and
>see if you could help which I had offered to pay for. You asked me to fax
>you the wiring diagram which I did the next day, since that time I have
>emailed you 4 or 5 times asking if you had received the fax and so far no
>one will answer me. If you are not willing to help just let me know.
>Thanks
>Elwyn Roosevelt
It's not a matter of willing but of resources. I get 5-10 emails
a day from folks wanting one-on-one help. With my day job and
the AeroElectric-List (both of which take highest priorities)
some tasks go lacking for immediate attention. As I write
there is a backlog of some 300 emails in my in-box that will
get evaluated for potential best use of my time; any older than
30 days will simply have to be deleted.
You have a simple trouble shooting task. You need to explore voltages
at the input and output of each piece of equipment in the system.
Start with measuring voltage at the field terminal of the alternator
with the engine running and system turned on. If you have
no volts, the problem lies somewhere in ship's wiring and/or
one of the devices between the bus and the alternator. Probe
all points along the pathway and see where it's "broke".
If you do have significant voltage at the field, then
the alternator is probably bad.
There are explanations of how all the goodies work
in the first few chapters of the AeroElectric Connection
offered from our website. You can download the last
chapter (appendix Z) from the website and consult note
8 for some further amplification on alternator troubleshooting
suggestions.
Go get the voltages and if the significance of the readings
are not clear to you, list them back to me in an e-mail or . . .
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Hello Folks,
I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on my
engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing, but
we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
else do we have to consider doing this job?
Many thanks in advance for your help
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>Hello Folks,
>
>I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on my
>engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing, but
>we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
>switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
>temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
>else do we have to consider doing this job?
>
>Many thanks in advance for your help
>
>Werner
>
>
>
Werner,
For lower operating temperatures I soldered thermocouples with one of
the silver solders sold in the welding stores. That is quite easy, just
use the proper flux for stainless steel since one of the K thermocouple
wires is made of chromel alloy. You can get the flux in a welding
store. The newer black flux works the best, but you should be able to
make it with the older white flux, just remember to use reducing flame
of your torch. Small welding torch works the best and has all
adjustments, but you should be able to make it even with a regular cheap
torch mounted on top of a propane bottle. I frequently use such a torch
for silver soldering. Make sure that you do not overheat the wires, that
would oxidize them and cause troubles. Try to get small diameter silver
solder wire, the diameter should be similar to the diameter of the
thermocouple wires.
It works easy if you twist the thermocouple wires together, wrap ithem
with a few turns of silver solder wire, and cover with flux. Now put it
into the torch. The flux will boil, turn into a foamy messy stuff which
will melt as the temperature goes up. When the solder melting point is
reached, the solder will spread nicely all over the junction and the
soldering is done. Remember to dissolve remnants of the flux in hot
water after this soldering, or you might have corrosion of the
thermocouple or metal in contact with the thermocouple.
I think such a silver soldered thermocouple would be fine for CHT, but
I doubt if it would work for EGT, because silver solder would melt there.
The right way to make EGT thermocouples is to weld them. You twist
together a few mm of the wires at one end of the thermocouple, connect
the wires of the other end of the thermocouple together and attach them
to the grounded end of a TIG welder, set the welder to a low current,
install a non sharpened heavy tungsten rod (~1/8" diameter) in the
welders electrode holder, mount the thermocouple twisted pair of wires
pointing wertically up, swich the HF source on, and approach from above
the twisted pair of thermocouple wires with the TIG tungsten electrode
to start the arc. The arc starts without the thermocouple touching the
tungsten electrode because of the HF voltage. The arc melts the
thermocouple quickly because the wires are thin and forms a ball of
melted metal at the tip of the thermocouple. Melting of the end of the
thermocouple increases distance between TIG electrode and the
thermocouple tip and that tends to kill the arc if the TIG electrode is
cold. Exactly for that reason you installed nonsharpened large
diameter tungsten rod in the welder and such a rod does not get hot very
fast. So you get automatic current switch off as soon as you form the
ball. You can assist that by pulling the handle with the electrode up
as soon as the arc started additionally increasing the distance Of
course you have to experiment with setting of the welder's current. If
the welder does not have small current settings, your thermocouple is
thin, and the welding action is too violent, you might be forced to put
a high current resistor in series with the welder output to reduce the
current.
You might also try to use a regular sharpened electrode for the TIG
welder, establish an arc between a big piece of steel and the tungsten
electrode, and insert the thermocouple into the arc without touching
the puddle or the tungsten. That should weld the tip, but the ball might
hang asymetrically if you insert the thermocouple off vertical position.
Regular crude welder without HF source would not work. Here you will
have to touch the thermocouple with the metal of the electrode
attempting to start the arc. The result of such touching is welding of
the tip of the thermocouple to the electrode of the welder creating a
short circuit, and following fast frying of the thermocouple with large
current from the welder.
Crazy scientists in research labs commonly use a salt solution electrode
for thermocouple welding. Unfortunately, the method contains all
elements of an electric chair. While it is simple and reliable I do not
think that it is compatible with a working space around sink in someones
home.
Jerzy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Hello Jerzy,
many thanks for your elaborate anwser, wher I see areal problem is, that I
would have to weld the wires to an edge connector (limited space, "low"
melting material?) I see there for sure a big problem ahead, also the switch
itslef does not look as I could weld around it, should have checked this
things before I bought them.
Will see what I can do
Anyway many thanks
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerzy Krasinski" <krasinski(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering
>
>
> Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> >
> >Hello Folks,
> >
> >I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on
my
> >engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing,
but
> >we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
> >switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
> >temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
> >else do we have to consider doing this job?
> >
> >Many thanks in advance for your help
> >
> >Werner
> >
> >
> >
> Werner,
>
> For lower operating temperatures I soldered thermocouples with one of
> the silver solders sold in the welding stores. That is quite easy, just
> use the proper flux for stainless steel since one of the K thermocouple
> wires is made of chromel alloy. You can get the flux in a welding
> store. The newer black flux works the best, but you should be able to
> make it with the older white flux, just remember to use reducing flame
> of your torch. Small welding torch works the best and has all
> adjustments, but you should be able to make it even with a regular cheap
> torch mounted on top of a propane bottle. I frequently use such a torch
> for silver soldering. Make sure that you do not overheat the wires, that
> would oxidize them and cause troubles. Try to get small diameter silver
> solder wire, the diameter should be similar to the diameter of the
> thermocouple wires.
> It works easy if you twist the thermocouple wires together, wrap ithem
> with a few turns of silver solder wire, and cover with flux. Now put it
> into the torch. The flux will boil, turn into a foamy messy stuff which
> will melt as the temperature goes up. When the solder melting point is
> reached, the solder will spread nicely all over the junction and the
> soldering is done. Remember to dissolve remnants of the flux in hot
> water after this soldering, or you might have corrosion of the
> thermocouple or metal in contact with the thermocouple.
> I think such a silver soldered thermocouple would be fine for CHT, but
> I doubt if it would work for EGT, because silver solder would melt there.
>
> The right way to make EGT thermocouples is to weld them. You twist
> together a few mm of the wires at one end of the thermocouple, connect
> the wires of the other end of the thermocouple together and attach them
> to the grounded end of a TIG welder, set the welder to a low current,
> install a non sharpened heavy tungsten rod (~1/8" diameter) in the
> welders electrode holder, mount the thermocouple twisted pair of wires
> pointing wertically up, swich the HF source on, and approach from above
> the twisted pair of thermocouple wires with the TIG tungsten electrode
> to start the arc. The arc starts without the thermocouple touching the
> tungsten electrode because of the HF voltage. The arc melts the
> thermocouple quickly because the wires are thin and forms a ball of
> melted metal at the tip of the thermocouple. Melting of the end of the
> thermocouple increases distance between TIG electrode and the
> thermocouple tip and that tends to kill the arc if the TIG electrode is
> cold. Exactly for that reason you installed nonsharpened large
> diameter tungsten rod in the welder and such a rod does not get hot very
> fast. So you get automatic current switch off as soon as you form the
> ball. You can assist that by pulling the handle with the electrode up
> as soon as the arc started additionally increasing the distance Of
> course you have to experiment with setting of the welder's current. If
> the welder does not have small current settings, your thermocouple is
> thin, and the welding action is too violent, you might be forced to put
> a high current resistor in series with the welder output to reduce the
> current.
>
> You might also try to use a regular sharpened electrode for the TIG
> welder, establish an arc between a big piece of steel and the tungsten
> electrode, and insert the thermocouple into the arc without touching
> the puddle or the tungsten. That should weld the tip, but the ball might
> hang asymetrically if you insert the thermocouple off vertical position.
>
> Regular crude welder without HF source would not work. Here you will
> have to touch the thermocouple with the metal of the electrode
> attempting to start the arc. The result of such touching is welding of
> the tip of the thermocouple to the electrode of the welder creating a
> short circuit, and following fast frying of the thermocouple with large
> current from the welder.
>
> Crazy scientists in research labs commonly use a salt solution electrode
> for thermocouple welding. Unfortunately, the method contains all
> elements of an electric chair. While it is simple and reliable I do not
> think that it is compatible with a working space around sink in someones
> home.
> Jerzy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
| Subject: | HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Purchase a rotary switch from Westach for about $30. It comes with leads,
already installed, which plug into the CHT/EGTs. No Soldering/welding
required. Simple, effective, cheap, compact.
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering
Hello Folks,
I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on my
engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing, but
we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
else do we have to consider doing this job?
Many thanks in advance for your help
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Werner,
Sorry, I answered wrong question. You are clearly interested in
soldering of the thermocouple wires TO THE SWITCH and not in making of
the thermocouples. But the welding stores will help in this case too.
For soldering of thermocouple wires you can use a regular tin solder ,
however you have to use an agressive flux . Welding stores have such
flux , just ask for a flux for soft soldering of stainless steel . It
comes in a form of a liquid with acidic smell.
That acidic character is a problem, it might ruin your switch. I would
not recommend to put that flux anywhere close to the switch, I would
recommend a two step action. Cover the ends of the thermocouple wires
with tin first, using the agressive flux. After that wash these wires
with plenty of water to remove the acidic stuff, and solder them now to
the switch using a regular electronic brand flux and solder. Once the
wire is coated with tin the soldering is easy.
I am not aware of any flux for high chromium alloys that is not
corrosive. But you might check with www.omega.com . Omega is a company
making all sorts of thermocouples and they might have some special flux
that is not corrosive.
Jerzy
Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>Hello Folks,
>
>I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on my
>engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing, but
>we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
>switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
>temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
>else do we have to consider doing this job?
>
>Many thanks in advance for your help
>
>Werner
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVAWALKER(at)aol.com |
Is it practical to cut and splice, or use a terminal block, the shielded wire
supplied by Whelen with their strobe kits? Sure would make much easier to
prewire the power supply and splice at the wing roots upon assembly.
Thanks
D. Walker RV7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
>
>
>Hello Folks,
>
>I need your experience, we prepared jesterday the CHT and EGT probes on my
>engine (4 each) to connect to a rotary switch. Preparing is one thing, but
>we found it nearly impossible to solder this exotique materials to the
>switch. There must be another way doing this, what kind of solder,
>temperature, torches/iron do we need to get a proper connection and what
>else do we have to consider doing this job?
>
>Many thanks in advance for your help
There is an excerpt from the 'Connection on my website
on thermocouples you may find useful. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
I've found that several good tin/lead solders I have
around the shop will solder type J wire . . . I use
metcal irons with 700 degree tips for this. I haven't
had a chance to try K wire yet.
A technique that ALWAYS works is to "tin" or coat
the end of the wire to be soldered to you switch
with silver solder. Ordinary tin-lead solder will then
alloy with the new coating and make a satisfactory
joint to your switch or other component.
Another technique I use is to crimp a d-sub male
pin onto the thermocouple wire. Then use the pin
as a solderable medium to complete the joint. I had
to put 12 sets of thermocouple wires into an etched
circuit board on a program at RAC a few months back.
The male d-sub pins made for a really nice interface
to the board. I suspect you could snip off the
smallest diameter of the pin and use the remaining
piece of wire-grip to provide an easily soldered
connection.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Is it practical to cut and splice, or use a terminal block, the shielded wire
>supplied by Whelen with their strobe kits? Sure would make much easier to
>prewire the power supply and splice at the wing roots upon assembly.
>
>Thanks
>D. Walker RV7\
Why not use connectors like those used at both ends of the
wire that comes with the kit? Radio Shack stocks 4 pin
nylon connectors (274-224 and 274-234) that install with
our BCT-1 crimp tool. You'll need a tool for this same
task for rest of the strobe system pin installations.
Use a 4-pin connector and take each of three wires
plus shield ground through the connector on its own
pin.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
No sheilding is needed? If no, then how much of the wires can be exposed
before shielding is required?
>
>
>>
>>Is it practical to cut and splice, or use a terminal block, the shielded wire
>>supplied by Whelen with their strobe kits? Sure would make much easier to
>>prewire the power supply and splice at the wing roots upon assembly.
>>
>>Thanks
>>D. Walker RV7\
>
> Why not use connectors like those used at both ends of the
> wire that comes with the kit? Radio Shack stocks 4 pin
> nylon connectors (274-224 and 274-234) that install with
> our BCT-1 crimp tool. You'll need a tool for this same
> task for rest of the strobe system pin installations.
>
> Use a 4-pin connector and take each of three wires
> plus shield ground through the connector on its own
> pin.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
Hello Bob,
thanks for the reply,
> There is an excerpt from the 'Connection on my website
> on thermocouples you may find useful. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
Thanks Bob, I do posess your book, thats how I found out about the material
of the probes..
> A technique that ALWAYS works is to "tin" or coat
> the end of the wire to be soldered to you switch
> with silver solder. Ordinary tin-lead solder will then
> alloy with the new coating and make a satisfactory
> joint to your switch or other component.
we will try this.
> Another technique I use is to crimp a d-sub male
> pin onto the thermocouple wire. Then use the pin
> as a solderable medium to complete the joint. I had
> to put 12 sets of thermocouple wires into an etched
> circuit board on a program at RAC a few months back.
> The male d-sub pins made for a really nice interface
> to the board. I suspect you could snip off the
> smallest diameter of the pin and use the remaining
> piece of wire-grip to provide an easily soldered
> connection.
Very interesting, this would make things even more easier, question,
following setup
thermocouple(s) switch instrument solder connector
___________o_ _o_________o-+------+
0___________o_ X_o_________ | |
o-+------+
out of symplicity only one thermocouple drawn, if I use the d-sub pins as a
medium (in the drawing symbolised as a "o") do I have a problem in accuracy?
Do I introduce an error with this d-sub pins?
Many thanks for your help!
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS antenna repainting (was GPS antenna question) |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "DAVID REEL"
:
Envoy : vendredi 13 juin 2003 16:04
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna question
>
> Wouldn't the metallic paint layer used to protect the composite material
from solar radiation block reception?
>
Hi Bob and all,
Thanks to all those who responded to my GPS antenna question.
Lowe antennas seem attractive. I wonder if they would work with a Garmin GPS
400.
Now for the paint.
Comant and Sensor Systems antennas are polyurethane coated. What could
possibly be wrong with just another coat of polyurethane ? (Except
temperature if we repaint it black)
Regards,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmfpublic(at)attbi.com |
(Aeroelectric-List)
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
The application note for the Analog Devices AD594 describes how to solder both
type J and type K thermocouples with three rosin core solders. These are 95%
tin-5% silver; 95%tin-5%antimony; and 90%tin-10% lead. The first one is
available at radio shack, and I have used it successfully to solder the ends of
the thermocouple wire together. It should work just as well to solder to the
switch terminals.
By the way, soldering the ends of the TC wire together should be as good as
welding in terms of accuracy--but not in terms of maximum temperature limits.
If you believe that the soldered ends of the TC would give a different voltage
than the welded pair, you would have a perpetual motion machine just by
soldering one end and welding the other. At the same temperature for both
ends, you would get current flow without a temperature differential. This
violates the second law of thermodynamics. So don't worry about soldering the
TC wires for things like CHT measurements. Welding is only needed for EGT heat
levels.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HOWTO K and J Thermocouples soldering |
>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>thanks for the reply,
>
> > There is an excerpt from the 'Connection on my website
> > on thermocouples you may find useful. See:
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
>
>Thanks Bob, I do posess your book, thats how I found out about the material
>of the probes..
>
> > A technique that ALWAYS works is to "tin" or coat
> > the end of the wire to be soldered to you switch
> > with silver solder. Ordinary tin-lead solder will then
> > alloy with the new coating and make a satisfactory
> > joint to your switch or other component.
>
>we will try this.
>
> > Another technique I use is to crimp a d-sub male
> > pin onto the thermocouple wire. Then use the pin
> > as a solderable medium to complete the joint. I had
> > to put 12 sets of thermocouple wires into an etched
> > circuit board on a program at RAC a few months back.
> > The male d-sub pins made for a really nice interface
> > to the board. I suspect you could snip off the
> > smallest diameter of the pin and use the remaining
> > piece of wire-grip to provide an easily soldered
> > connection.
>
>Very interesting, this would make things even more easier, question,
>following setup
>
>
>thermocouple(s) switch instrument solder connector
> ___________o_ _o_________o-+------+
> 0___________o_ X_o_________ | |
> o-+------+
>
>out of symplicity only one thermocouple drawn, if I use the d-sub pins as a
>medium (in the drawing symbolised as a "o") do I have a problem in accuracy?
>Do I introduce an error with this d-sub pins?
>
>Many thanks for your help!
What kind of accuracy are you concerned about? Ordinary off-the-shelf
TC wire is generally 3 degree C rated. You can buy screened high accuracy
wire but I've never found it necessary. Not sure how to interpret your
text-drawings . . . the simple rule is that for every new thermocouple
you introduce on one side, there must be an equal and opposite TC on the
other side and in the same local temperature environment. If you're
doing run-of-the-mill EGT and CHT work, there are potential inaccuracies
introduced by these techniques worth worrying about.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3 terminalt contactor diode placement? |
I utilized a continuous duty 3 terminal contactor for my battery disconnect and
was wondering how to place a diode?
Thanks,
Ned
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Walck" <kwalck(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor selection |
What doesn't make sense about the battery fumes being the culprit is that
the sealed contactor (the most recent, a marine solenoid) lasted the
shortest amout of time. Doesn't seem like it could have corroded so
quickly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery contactor selection
>
> >Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
> >Ken Walck (kwalck(at)charter.net) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 at 18:40:34
> >
> >Wednesday, June 11, 2003
> >
> >Ken Walck
> >
> >,
> >Email: kwalck(at)charter.net
> >Comments/Questions: Greetings Bob,
> >
> >I need to order a solenoid but don't know which one, the continuous duty
> >or cross-feed contactor. I wonder if you could help me troubleshoot a
> >related problem and direct me to which solenoid to purchase.
>
> They are the same product to begin with, they just have different
> diode arrangements.
>
>
> >I bought a Vari-EZE last November, which has a battery solenoid and a
pull
> >cable mechanism that engages a mechanical switch for the starter as found
> >on old C-150's I believe.
>
> Yes, the manually switched and engaged starters were used on
> a number of engines in the o-200 and o-300 families from
> C-140 through C-170
>
> >The problem is that I've gone through four solenoids since I bought
> >it. The original solenoid quit working immediately and it was replaced
> >with a heavy-duty automotive solenoid. That one quit after a while and I
> >figured that the fumes from the charging battery were corroding the
> >contacts inside (evidenced by green corrosion inside). Then I tried a
> >solenoid from Wicks thinking that maybe an aviation application might
> >help, and I also replaced the battery with a heavier duty one. This one
> >never really worked well (chattered when the starter motor was engaged)
> >since the new battery had to be charged and produced corrosive fumes once
> >again, I thought. Finally I installed a marine solenoid that was
> >sealed. Its first flight after a month or so of sitting was fine but the
> >next time I wanted to fly, 2 days later, there was no response through
the
> >solenoid. Voltage gets to the input lead and through the switch but the
> >output post is totally dead.
> >
> >I should mention that there is a direct connection from the battery
ground
> >to the solenoid ground, as well as from the toggle switch ground to the
> >solenoid ground. Is this a problem?
>
>
> What kind of battery are you using? . . . there's NO reason
> to have corrosive gasses from any battery these days. You should
> be using a sealed lead-acid battery. Poor battery contactor
> life can generally be attributed to poor battery choice.
> It's voltage drops too low during cranking to keep good closure
> pressure on the contactor's inards.
>
> Check out batteries on
> http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/seal/index.html
>
> my favorite battery for light aircraft is the LC-RD1217P described at
>
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC
-RD1217P.pdf
>
> This battery is made by many manufacturers and can usually be
> purchased locally for less than $75
>
> Given the distance between battery and engine, your
> fat wires should be 2AWG. After these conditions are
> met, about any contactor should do fine as a battery
> disconnect device. The continuous duty on shown on
> our website will be adequate.
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
>
> share the information with as many folks as possible.
> You can join at . . .
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> |---------------------------------------------------|
> | A lie can travel half way around the world while |
> | the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
> | -Mark Twain- |
> |---------------------------------------------------|
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSwanson <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement? |
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Fig. 6
R
----- Original Message -----
From: <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement?
>
> I utilized a continuous duty 3 terminal contactor for my battery
disconnect and was wondering how to place a diode?
>
> Thanks,
> Ned
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement? |
Thanks R but fig 6 shows a 4 terminal contactor. I have a 3 terminal
contactor. I think that one side of the coil is internally conected to the +
positive side of the battery.
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "RSwanson" <rswan19(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement?
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
> Fig. 6
> R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <315(at)cox.net>
> To: "Aeroelectric-List(at)Matronics.Com"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement?
>
>
> >
> > I utilized a continuous duty 3 terminal contactor for my battery
> disconnect and was wondering how to place a diode?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ned
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>No sheilding is needed? If no, then how much of the wires can be exposed
>before shielding is required?
Shielding is not like a leak in a hose . . . a hole in the shield
doesn't dump buckets of noise. There are few hard "requirements" for
shielding and those only pertain to the probability of capacitively
coupling noise from the fast rise time pulse on strobe wiring to
some adjacent wire that is a potential victim. So if your antagonist
and victim wires are routed parallel to each other for 20' (240 inches)
and you bared 3" to facilitate a connector, then the attenuation value
of the total shielding system has only been compromised to the tune
of 3/240 or about 1.5% Not a big deal because wires that share space
with strobe cables are not high on list of potential victims.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement? |
>
>I utilized a continuous duty 3 terminal contactor for my battery
>disconnect and was wondering how to place a diode?
>
>Thanks,
>Ned
banded end of diode gets a 5/16 terminal and shares one of the fat
terminals that goes off to battery (+). The other end of the diode
goes to small terminal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement? |
Thanks Bob!
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3 terminalt contactor diode placement?
>
> >
> >I utilized a continuous duty 3 terminal contactor for my battery
> >disconnect and was wondering how to place a diode?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ned
>
> banded end of diode gets a 5/16 terminal and shares one of the fat
> terminals that goes off to battery (+). The other end of the diode
> goes to small terminal.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Battery location |
> my favorite battery for light aircraft is the LC-RD1217P described at
>
http//www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC
> -RD1217P.pdf
>
> This battery is made by many manufacturers and can usually be
> purchased locally for less than $75
Bob & others,
I'm glad to have read this, since this is the battery I've chosen.
I've been thinking I would put the battery inside the firewall, with the
contactors -- in the dry, in the warm, and close to everything. I think this
might be a kinder environment for them. However, I've been rather put-off by
the number of people who swing by the hangar, look at the build project, and
say:
1) they think the battery is too small
2) that it should go in front of the firewall, next to the engine.
Point 1) I'm happy about -- the battery can, according to Yuasa, deliver
about 250 amps! More than enough to turn a B&C starter on a 115hp engine, I
would think. In any case, when I ask the people why they think the battery
is too small, they don't talk about deep current, they just talk about how
big the battery is on their plane, and none can deliver a good argument for a
larger battery.
But I'm wondering about 2). Is my plan to keep the contactors, etc., inside
a good one? I can see what people are saying when they say that it's not so
accessible under the panel, especially if it needs to be charged up, but I've
no idea if I will need to get at it. I've never owned a plane, so I'm not
sure about the level of maintenance involved. I'm guessing it's low, and
that I'll hardl need to get at the battery.
Any information & opinions would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
>
>
> > my favorite battery for light aircraft is the LC-RD1217P described at
> >
>http//www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC
> > -RD1217P.pdf
> >
> > This battery is made by many manufacturers and can usually be
> > purchased locally for less than $75
>
>
>Bob & others,
>
>I'm glad to have read this, since this is the battery I've chosen.
>
>I've been thinking I would put the battery inside the firewall, with the
>contactors -- in the dry, in the warm, and close to everything. I think this
>might be a kinder environment for them. However, I've been rather put-off by
>the number of people who swing by the hangar, look at the build project, and
>say:
>
>1) they think the battery is too small
If it were a flooded battery it might be true. RG technology
is a whole new ballgame.
>2) that it should go in front of the firewall, next to the engine.
That works too. If there is room for it, I'd go for up
front. There is little difference in service life of the
gizmos for the two mounting locations. A forward of the
firewall location is easier to wire and probably easier
to maintain.
>Point 1) I'm happy about -- the battery can, according to Yuasa, deliver
>about 250 amps! More than enough to turn a B&C starter on a 115hp engine, I
>would think. In any case, when I ask the people why they think the battery
>is too small, they don't talk about deep current, they just talk about how
>big the battery is on their plane, and none can deliver a good argument for a
>larger battery.
>
>But I'm wondering about 2). Is my plan to keep the contactors, etc., inside
>a good one? I can see what people are saying when they say that it's not so
>accessible under the panel, especially if it needs to be charged up, but I've
>no idea if I will need to get at it. I've never owned a plane, so I'm not
>sure about the level of maintenance involved. I'm guessing it's low, and
>that I'll hardl need to get at the battery.
If it were my airplane, I count on having to put
my hands on a battery once a year . . . to put
a new one in. See page 12 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf
It's your choice. As for "charging" consider some
variety of ground power connector. See article
on website for heavy duty ground power connector
that will carry cranking currents . . . or you can
include some lighter connector that allows you to
charge the battery from some conveniently accessable
connector and not have to crawl under the panel.
Given the superior performance of the RG battery
for storage life -AND- the modern approach to system
architecture, fabrication and maitenance, it's unlikely
that you will ever need to attach ground power to your airplane
due to discharged battery . . . that's a pleasure
reserved for our brothers not so blessed as we.
>Any information & opinions would be appreciated.
When folks come by and offer their opinions based on
what they know of the past 100 years of certified
aviation technology and progress, you might invite them
to visit our website and perhaps join this list.
If all they have for a knowledge base is what has
gone before in contemporary certified aviation, then
they're missing about 80% of what aviation is really
all about.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery contactor selection |
>
>What doesn't make sense about the battery fumes being the culprit is that
>the sealed contactor (the most recent, a marine solenoid) lasted the
>shortest amout of time. Doesn't seem like it could have corroded so
>quickly.
Are you sure it was battery fumes? Years ago, Cessna went
from a cowl fastened solidly to the fuselage to a "floating
cowl" that attached using shock mountings. The notion was
that it reduced cabin noise.
It also allowed rain water to run down the firewall . . . A gizmo
mounted on the firewall might get toasty under a summer sun
and when a shower comes along, a little splash of cold water
would not only cool it off but cause internal pressure drop
that actually cased it to SUCK WATER INSIDE.
Cessna asked us to "seal" some of our products with RTV and
they launched other programs to "seal" contactors and other
gizmos with epoxy, rtv, etc.
The result was predictable. Unless you acquire a HERMETIC
pressure seal, every attempt to seal using uckum-yucky would
have tiny leaks somewhere. These tiny leaks will still pass liquid
water because of cooling pressure drop. The water
that came into a pin-hole as liquid had to get out through
the same pinhole as a vapor using only atmospheric pressure
changes to do the gas exchange.
Turns out, the harder they they attempted to seal things
up, the faster they failed due to internal corrosion.
I don't know that this is the effect you're dealing with.
I offer it as anecdotal example of how root cause of a
failure can oft times be some completely unconsidered
or investigated effect . . . These root causes are easily
missed when the fog of "patently obvious" stresses like
battery fumes get in the way. It MIGHT be battery fumes
but keep an open mind as to alternatives of which there
may be many.
It would be interesting to inspect your failed parts.
Do you still have them?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: DAVAWALKER(at)aol.com
<>
6/14/2003
Hello D. Here is how I solved that problem (I wanted to avoid a connection at
the wing root.)
I installed a rudimentary flexible conduit made of heat shrink tubing through
the side of the fuselage to permit feeding the high voltage Whelen strobe
cable through. I allowed additional cable length in a loop inside the wing tip.
To remove the wing along with the cable just unplug the cable from the power
supply, cut off the AMP Mate-N-Lock connector on the strobe power supply end
of the cable, disconnect the drain wire from the power supply chassis, and pull
the cable out of the fuselage.
To reinstall the cable just slide the cut end back through the conduit, crimp
3 new pins on the end of the cable wires, push the new pins into the plastic
connector, and plug into the power supply. The drain wire connects separately
to the power supply chassis.
The plastic connector is reusable by removing the old pins with a piece of
small diameter tubing to compress the barbs or just using a small probe to bend
the pin barbs and push the old pins back out.
New 3 circuit AMP connector housings and pins to plug into the power supply
are available from Terminal Town and other sources. The housing for the pins is
part number 1-480305-0 and the part number for the pins is 60620-1 (in loose
form). Just for reference purposes the matching 3 circuit AMP connector cap is
part number 1-480303-0 and the sockets are part number 60619-1 (in loose
form).
This technique should be good for many more wing removals than you'd like to
make.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
PS: My Whelen provided cable has a foil shield which would be extremely
difficult to connect with pins within a plastic housing as Bob Nuckolls suggested.
It does have a drain wire which could be connected with a four pin connector
if you decide to go that route.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | transient spikes |
6/14/2003
Hello Bob Nuckolls, I thought that you might be interested in the two
postings below copied from the Pulsar builder's web serve list. No indication of
which EIS is involved.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
Brian
I have an EIS and I have a switch on it. I start the engine then turn on the
EIS to avoid the start up spike. Once the engine died just after start up
and
I restarted without turning off the EIS and the spike messed up the EIS
readings. All you need is to switch the EIS.
Clarke
> A few days ago I decided to make some transient suppressors [filters] to fit
> into my electrical system to see if that helps solve the mysterious and
> intermittent problem regarding the distorted audio [on transmit] reports
> that I have been getting.
>
> As an aside, transient spikes can do interesting things to your EIS system.
> I don't have an on-off switch for my EIS, so early on I was starting the
> engine, and stopping it, with the EIS operational. On a few occasions all
> the presets I had in the non-volatile memory were wiped, and the readings
> were all haywire. Easy enough to re-program, but since then I have avoided
> the problem by leaving the EIS off when starting and stopping. The cause has
> to be transients or spikes on the +12 volt supply rail.
>
> So, I have three filters to fit today. One each in the supply line for the
> EIS, the intercom and the com radio. The filters consist of a pi filter,
> with 470 mf each side of a choke wound on a powdered iron toroid. No
> particular value of inductance, but reasonably heavy enamelled wire. 0.1mf
> caps in parallel with the electrolytics [because they have lower impedance
> at high frequencies], and an 18 volt zener diode across the load side. The
> zener is to make absolutely sure that the tops are sliced off any transients
> that happen to get through the filter, and the maximum voltage that can
> appear at any connected equipment is 18 volts. If there is a whopping
> transient that is sustained long enough then the zener might blow, or the
> fuse might blow, but these are a lot less expensive to replace than an EIS
> or a radio.
>
> Don't know if anyone else has gone to these lengths, but it is not expensive
> to do this. Should at least eliminate some potential transient problems, and
> make sure that the system is as "quiet" as possible. The only difficulty is
> getting access to the wiring behind the panel.
>
> Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | UMA 12-100-100 OAT Pinout? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | UMA 12-100-100 OAT Pinout? |
Gang,
Anybody happen to have a pinout for the above? I'm sure I can get it
from UMA on Monday, but I'm trying to finish up a panel this weekend. This one
has a miswired factory plug, or it's just dead.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
| Subject: | Q: KT76 NAV Audio Pin |
Hi all,
I would like to install an external switch on my King KX155 NAV audio
(the internal switch will not allow me to turn the NAV audio down/off).
I'm a bit confused looking at the pin out (a feeling that I am quite
familiar with!).
The following lines are listed:
1) NAV AUDIO HI
2) NAV AUDIO LO
They come out of one connector and into another connector (both on the
KX155). Are these the right wires to switch? If so, should I install
the switch in one (single pole) or both (double pole) of these
connections?
Thanks much!
BTW: Flew my newly re-engined Q2 with Subaru EJ-22 Legacy last night for
the first time. Short but safe flight!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rondefly" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | Q: KT76 NAV Audio Pin |
Congrats Jon on the safe first again flight, that Legasy is a great engine,
I have two cars with them.
Ron Triano
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon
Finley
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Q: KT76 NAV Audio Pin
Hi all,
I would like to install an external switch on my King KX155 NAV audio
(the internal switch will not allow me to turn the NAV audio down/off).
I'm a bit confused looking at the pin out (a feeling that I am quite
familiar with!).
The following lines are listed:
1) NAV AUDIO HI
2) NAV AUDIO LO
They come out of one connector and into another connector (both on the
KX155). Are these the right wires to switch? If so, should I install
the switch in one (single pole) or both (double pole) of these
connections?
Thanks much!
BTW: Flew my newly re-engined Q2 with Subaru EJ-22 Legacy last night for
the first time. Short but safe flight!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 440 Hrs. TT - 0 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)Globaleyes.net> |
"Paul Long" ,
"Chris Whittet" ,
"Jeff Gostisha" ,
"Eduardo Nixon" , "Ken Tunnell" ,
"Charlie Rodriguez" , "Sandy Smith"
| Subject: | At last, the truth can be told... |
Just a little progress report, here. After last year's AirVenture Cup race
I decided I needed more speed. At first I intended to accomplish it with
aerodynamic improvements but later I decided to go the Cro-Magnon route and
get it with brute force. So, last November I sent my O-200 cylinders off to
Ly-Con in California (they build engines for Sean Tucker, Jim LeRoy, etc.)
for the magic dust. They flow ported the cylinders and polished the elbows
and spider. They also built high compression pistons, so I went from 7:1 to
9:1.
While I already had most of the engine apart I figured I may as well
overhaul the whole thing. I'm glad I stripped it down since I found a crack
in the crankshaft. That probably was the result of my prop strike due to a
previous runway excursion, due to a broken tail spring.
As long as I did all that, I decided I may as well have the crankcase
overhauled, so I sent that to Divco in Tulsa. The cam and related parts
went to D&S Camshaft in Florida. I was very pleased by the workmanship done
by all these firms.
As long as I was waiting for all this stuff to come back, I decided to
completely re-wire the aircraft, ala Bob Nucholls and his AeroElectric
Connection publication. I went after my plane with a wire cutters and 20
minutes later most of the wire, circuit breakers, and switches were lying in
a heap on the hangar floor. I stuck in a new alternator, low voltage and
low oil pressure idiot lights, split the system into a main bus and
essential bus, and drew up a bunch of prefessional looking schematics. Oh,
I stuck in a new strobe system also and recombinant gas battery. Now I have
an excellent electrical system, if I do say so myself. Bob Nucholls is
awesome.
I now also have an EGT and CHT for each cylinder. Still don't have a
starter.
For those of you still building, I can't say enough about the wisdom of
engineering in Bob Nucholl's book and systems. I now consider it a must
have.
Since I am a total glutton for punishment, I decided to also redo the
baffling system. I glassed up a plenum system based on help from Lynn
French and Jerry Marstal. I'll get pictures posted on my web site pretty
soon. They are all fiberglass and I hope they work.
So today, we fired up the engine for the first time. All indications are
good. The electrical system seems solid and I think the engine sounds nice,
but I only ran it for seven minutes and to 1,200 RPM. I have a new exhaust
system on order and that should arrive toward the end of next week. In the
meantime I'm using my old exhaust. There are just a few details to take
care of, and with a little luck I may fly early this week. With a little
more luck I just may make it to Mattoon.
Major thanks to Sandy Smith for putting up with all this silliness and
Charley Rodriguez for helping with the engine and kicking me in the pants.
Thanks to again Lynn for his patience answering my questions about his
baffling. Thanks also to Mike Bergren for the drawings of his wheel pants,
which I'll get to NEXT winter.
So, if all the planets line up correctly and the Lord willin' and the creek
don't rise, I'll be back in the air in a couple of days. I can't wait to
see how the engine performs!
And BTW, at last year's AirVenture Cup race there were about 42 planes and
three in the Sprint class (240 cubic inches of less). This year there will
be 85 planes and 12 in the Sprint! Wow!
Regards,
Sam
Quickie Q-200 ~1,250 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rondefly" <rondefly(at)rtriano.com> |
| Subject: | At last, the truth can be told... |
Hi Sam, I would be interested in seeing your baffling system, I am really
done with the glass work so a little more won't hurt. I too went to Bob
Nicholls and got his CD and Book, great way to go, I am still reading his
stuff. Today i put schrader valves on my canopy cylinders, will fill them
tomorrow and install for test. I will fill them with the CO2 bicycle pump to
get them up to the correct pressure. Found out about the CO2 thing from the
Dfly boys at Chino last week. With all that you have done I am sure you will
get some great performance.
Ron Triano
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Jeff Gostisha; Eduardo Nixon; Ken Tunnell; Charlie Rodriguez; Sandy
Smith
Subject: AeroElectric-List: At last, the truth can be told...
Just a little progress report, here. After last year's AirVenture Cup race
I decided I needed more speed. At first I intended to accomplish it with
aerodynamic improvements but later I decided to go the Cro-Magnon route and
get it with brute force. So, last November I sent my O-200 cylinders off to
Ly-Con in California (they build engines for Sean Tucker, Jim LeRoy, etc.)
for the magic dust. They flow ported the cylinders and polished the elbows
and spider. They also built high compression pistons, so I went from 7:1 to
9:1.
While I already had most of the engine apart I figured I may as well
overhaul the whole thing. I'm glad I stripped it down since I found a crack
in the crankshaft. That probably was the result of my prop strike due to a
previous runway excursion, due to a broken tail spring.
As long as I did all that, I decided I may as well have the crankcase
overhauled, so I sent that to Divco in Tulsa. The cam and related parts
went to D&S Camshaft in Florida. I was very pleased by the workmanship done
by all these firms.
As long as I was waiting for all this stuff to come back, I decided to
completely re-wire the aircraft, ala Bob Nucholls and his AeroElectric
Connection publication. I went after my plane with a wire cutters and 20
minutes later most of the wire, circuit breakers, and switches were lying in
a heap on the hangar floor. I stuck in a new alternator, low voltage and
low oil pressure idiot lights, split the system into a main bus and
essential bus, and drew up a bunch of prefessional looking schematics. Oh,
I stuck in a new strobe system also and recombinant gas battery. Now I have
an excellent electrical system, if I do say so myself. Bob Nucholls is
awesome.
I now also have an EGT and CHT for each cylinder. Still don't have a
starter.
For those of you still building, I can't say enough about the wisdom of
engineering in Bob Nucholl's book and systems. I now consider it a must
have.
Since I am a total glutton for punishment, I decided to also redo the
baffling system. I glassed up a plenum system based on help from Lynn
French and Jerry Marstal. I'll get pictures posted on my web site pretty
soon. They are all fiberglass and I hope they work.
So today, we fired up the engine for the first time. All indications are
good. The electrical system seems solid and I think the engine sounds nice,
but I only ran it for seven minutes and to 1,200 RPM. I have a new exhaust
system on order and that should arrive toward the end of next week. In the
meantime I'm using my old exhaust. There are just a few details to take
care of, and with a little luck I may fly early this week. With a little
more luck I just may make it to Mattoon.
Major thanks to Sandy Smith for putting up with all this silliness and
Charley Rodriguez for helping with the engine and kicking me in the pants.
Thanks to again Lynn for his patience answering my questions about his
baffling. Thanks also to Mike Bergren for the drawings of his wheel pants,
which I'll get to NEXT winter.
So, if all the planets line up correctly and the Lord willin' and the creek
don't rise, I'll be back in the air in a couple of days. I can't wait to
see how the engine performs!
And BTW, at last year's AirVenture Cup race there were about 42 planes and
three in the Sprint class (240 cubic inches of less). This year there will
be 85 planes and 12 in the Sprint! Wow!
Regards,
Sam
Quickie Q-200 ~1,250 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Marker Beacon Antenna Lead |
Still wondering what is required for a marker beacon antenna lead.
Didn't get a response to the following message.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
-------------------
> I have an Apollo SL-10 intercom with a built in Marker Beacon. Unlike
> Comm/Nav avionics the SL-10 does not have a BNC connection for the antenna.
> The SL-10 antenna connection is
> merely one D-sub pin in a fully loaded connector. This leads me to believe
> that RG-400 or RG-58 cable is unnecessary. The installation manual says
> nothing about antenna leads. I intend to have a simple wire antenna in
> the wing tip for the marker beacon.
>
> What sort of antenna lead do I need? Will just a strand of 22AWG wire
> work, or should it be some sort of shielded wire?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: transient spikes |
>
>6/14/2003
>
>Hello Bob Nuckolls, I thought that you might be interested in the two
>postings below copied from the Pulsar builder's web serve list. No
>indication of
>which EIS is involved.
>
>'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
>Brian
Appreciate the heads-up on this. I'm not surprised. There is a lot
of product coming into the certified market that cannot thrive in
the real world. Airframe OEMs and government watchdog organizations
are so engrossed in following the ever expanding set of rules they've
lost sight of a need for and value of sound, rudimentary engineering.
The OBAM community fares no better but the saddest thing is that
there is no regulatory dogma to discourage good design. None-
the-less, both manufacturers and consumers seem ready to accept
such BS because TOLERANCE of BS in the certified world is
mistaken for ACCEPTANCE. Alan Kay of Xerox PARC (the birthplace of
personal computing) once said, "Don't worry about what anybody
else is going to do The best way to predict the future is to invent
it. Really smart people with reasonable funding can do just about
anything that doesn't violate too many of Newton's Laws!"
I'll elaborate on that thought by adding "Don't step off into the
quagmire of historical non-accomplishment as a guiding light
for future goals. Some folks recognize and understand the value of
the OBAM aircraft community as a platform for demonstrating how
really good a product can be . . . and some do not.
Bob . . .
>The Full Alan Kay Quote
>"Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do The best way to
>predict the future is to invent it. Really smart people with reasonable
>funding can do just about anything that doesn't violate too many of
>Newton's Laws!"
>I have an EIS and I have a switch on it. I start the engine then turn on the
>EIS to avoid the start up spike. Once the engine died just after start up
>and
>I restarted without turning off the EIS and the spike messed up the EIS
>readings. All you need is to switch the EIS.
>
>Clarke
> > A few days ago I decided to make some transient suppressors [filters]
> to fit
> > into my electrical system to see if that helps solve the mysterious and
> > intermittent problem regarding the distorted audio [on transmit] reports
> > that I have been getting.
> >
> > As an aside, transient spikes can do interesting things to your EIS system.
> > I don't have an on-off switch for my EIS, so early on I was starting the
> > engine, and stopping it, with the EIS operational. On a few occasions all
> > the presets I had in the non-volatile memory were wiped, and the readings
> > were all haywire. Easy enough to re-program, but since then I have avoided
> > the problem by leaving the EIS off when starting and stopping. The
> cause has
> > to be transients or spikes on the +12 volt supply rail.
> >
> > So, I have three filters to fit today. One each in the supply line for the
> > EIS, the intercom and the com radio. The filters consist of a pi filter,
> > with 470 mf each side of a choke wound on a powdered iron toroid. No
>
> > particular value of inductance, but reasonably heavy enamelled wire. 0.1mf
> > caps in parallel with the electrolytics [because they have lower impedance
> > at high frequencies], and an 18 volt zener diode across the load side. The
> > zener is to make absolutely sure that the tops are sliced off any
> transients
> > that happen to get through the filter, and the maximum voltage that can
> > appear at any connected equipment is 18 volts. If there is a whopping
> > transient that is sustained long enough then the zener might blow, or the
> > fuse might blow, but these are a lot less expensive to replace than an EIS
> > or a radio.
> >
> > Don't know if anyone else has gone to these lengths, but it is not
> expensive
> > to do this. Should at least eliminate some potential transient
> problems, and
> > make sure that the system is as "quiet" as possible. The only difficulty is
> > getting access to the wiring behind the panel.
> >
> > Brian
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UMA 12-100-100 OAT Pinout? |
Gang,
Cancel the request. Took it apart, found a broken solder joint where
the display connects to the board. A little flux, a dot of solder, and all is
well.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
Thanks Bob,
It sure makes a bit more room under the panel for the battery with it out
front. What about contactors? Do you prefer them inside or out. It's one
side of the firewall or the other, so there's not much cable length involved.
Environmental factors are the only considerations.
If I put them in the engine compartment, do you recommend covering them?
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery location
> >I've been thinking I would put the battery inside the firewall, with the
> >contactors -- in the dry, in the warm, and close to everything. I think
this
> >might be a kinder environment for them. However, I've been rather put-off
by
> >the number of people who swing by the hangar, look at the build project,
and
> >say:
> >
> >1) they think the battery is too small
>
> If it were a flooded battery it might be true. RG technology
> is a whole new ballgame.
>
> >2) that it should go in front of the firewall, next to the engine.
>
> That works too. If there is room for it, I'd go for up
> front. There is little difference in service life of the
> gizmos for the two mounting locations. A forward of the
> firewall location is easier to wire and probably easier
> to maintain.
>
>
> >Point 1) I'm happy about -- the battery can, according to Yuasa, deliver
> >about 250 amps! More than enough to turn a B&C starter on a 115hp engine,
I
> >would think. In any case, when I ask the people why they think the
battery
> >is too small, they don't talk about deep current, they just talk about how
> >big the battery is on their plane, and none can deliver a good argument
for a
> >larger battery.
> >
> >But I'm wondering about 2). Is my plan to keep the contactors, etc.,
inside
> >a good one? I can see what people are saying when they say that it's not
so
> >accessible under the panel, especially if it needs to be charged up, but
I've
> >no idea if I will need to get at it. I've never owned a plane, so I'm not
> >sure about the level of maintenance involved. I'm guessing it's low, and
> >that I'll hardl need to get at the battery.
>
> If it were my airplane, I count on having to put
> my hands on a battery once a year . . . to put
> a new one in. See page 12 of
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
> and
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf
>
> It's your choice. As for "charging" consider some
> variety of ground power connector. See article
> on website for heavy duty ground power connector
> that will carry cranking currents . . . or you can
> include some lighter connector that allows you to
> charge the battery from some conveniently accessable
> connector and not have to crawl under the panel.
>
> Given the superior performance of the RG battery
> for storage life -AND- the modern approach to system
> architecture, fabrication and maitenance, it's unlikely
> that you will ever need to attach ground power to your airplane
> due to discharged battery . . . that's a pleasure
> reserved for our brothers not so blessed as we.
>
>
> >Any information & opinions would be appreciated.
>
> When folks come by and offer their opinions based on
> what they know of the past 100 years of certified
> aviation technology and progress, you might invite them
> to visit our website and perhaps join this list.
>
> If all they have for a knowledge base is what has
> gone before in contemporary certified aviation, then
> they're missing about 80% of what aviation is really
> all about.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crimped Connections - Pull Out Strength... |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
How much force should it take to pull the wire out of a crimped
connection? For instance, if you are crimping a fast-on tab connector to
a piece of wire - how much weight/force should the connection be able to
withstand before the wire comes loose?
Also, does any one have any close up pictures of a good crimped
connection for the typical 20 to 24 guage wires and is it important to
apply the crimp tool so the top of the tool is in line with the top of
the connector?
Thanks!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crimped Connections - Pull Out |
Strength...
>
>How much force should it take to pull the wire out of a crimped
>connection? For instance, if you are crimping a fast-on tab connector to
>a piece of wire - how much weight/force should the connection be able to
>withstand before the wire comes loose?
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
>Also, does any one have any close up pictures of a good crimped
>connection for the typical 20 to 24 guage wires and is it important to
>apply the crimp tool so the top of the tool is in line with the top of
>the connector?
Not sure what your asking here. With the PreInsulated, Diamond
Grip (PIDG) style terminals, the terminal can be captured in
the crimp tool by closing it a few "clicks" until the dies
just grab the plastic sleeve. The sleeve is centered longitudinally
in the tool's dies. When the crimp is finished, the cut strands of
wire should be visible and extend just outside the crimped area
of the wire grip but not so far as to extend out of the insulating
sleeve.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery location |
>
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>It sure makes a bit more room under the panel for the battery with it out
>front. What about contactors? Do you prefer them inside or out. It's one
>side of the firewall or the other, so there's not much cable length involved.
>Environmental factors are the only considerations.
>
>If I put them in the engine compartment, do you recommend covering them?
>
>Cheers.
>Nev
nope, just hang 'em out there. If there is any chance that RADIANT
heat from exhaust stacks can impinge on plastic surface of battery,
you might need some kind of shield . . .
I've seen lots of RG batteries installed under the cowl. There
have to be some folks here on the list that can tell you of
successful installations on their airplanes or others they've
seen.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marker Beacon Antenna Lead |
Charlie, I talked with Bob Archer, an antenna expert, about this several
years ago. He told me to just mount a single wire 40" long on my rear
fuselage floor (I have a Glasair) and that would work fine. Haven't flown
yet, so I have no data to report. I'm not sure what you should do if you
have a metal airplane, but it's clear that the MB antenna does not need to
be sophisticated.
Jim Oberst
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Brame" <charleyb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Marker Beacon Antenna Lead
>
> Still wondering what is required for a marker beacon antenna lead.
> Didn't get a response to the following message.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> -------------------
>
> > I have an Apollo SL-10 intercom with a built in Marker Beacon. Unlike
> > Comm/Nav avionics the SL-10 does not have a BNC connection for the
antenna.
> > The SL-10 antenna connection is
> > merely one D-sub pin in a fully loaded connector. This leads me to
believe
> > that RG-400 or RG-58 cable is unnecessary. The installation manual says
> > nothing about antenna leads. I intend to have a simple wire antenna in
> > the wing tip for the marker beacon.
> >
> > What sort of antenna lead do I need? Will just a strand of 22AWG wire
> > work, or should it be some sort of shielded wire?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marker Beacon Antenna Lead |
>
>
>Still wondering what is required for a marker beacon antenna lead.
>Didn't get a response to the following message.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Marker beacon is a very strong, 75 MHz signal that
can be handled on ordinary shielded wire that
might otherwise be considered a VERY poor grade
of coaxial cable.
What kind of airplane are you building? If it's
plastic, you might try just hooking a 40' piece
of 22AWG wire to the pin and stretch it out along
the inside of the fuselage with as much clearance
as practical from other conductors.
But if you must go out to the wingtip to get
some radio-transparent "skin" then you could
use ordinary single conductor shielded wire
and exposed 40" of center conductor at far end.
Tape to inside of tip fairing as "spread out"
as the inside surface and volume will allow.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Q: KT76 NAV Audio Pin |
>
>Hi all,
>
>I would like to install an external switch on my King KX155 NAV audio
>(the internal switch will not allow me to turn the NAV audio down/off).
>I'm a bit confused looking at the pin out (a feeling that I am quite
>familiar with!).
>
>The following lines are listed:
>1) NAV AUDIO HI
>2) NAV AUDIO LO
>
>They come out of one connector and into another connector (both on the
>KX155). Are these the right wires to switch? If so, should I install
>the switch in one (single pole) or both (double pole) of these
>connections?
Do you have the installation manual for the radio? I believe this
radio has an audio isolation amplifier built in. Audio output from
comm and nav are headphone level signals that are normally looped
back into auxiliary inputs to the isolation amplifier via a
phones/off/speaker select switch. There may also be a need for
certain pins to be jumpered together for the audio system to
work. The installation manual will explain this in detail.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | GPS antenna in wingtip? |
I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would work
well enough.
Disadvantages?
This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the fiberglass cowl.
Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marker Beacon Antenna Lead |
| From: | "Lockamy, Jack L NA" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil> |
Charlie,
I spoke with Bob Archer (Sportaircraft Antenna guru....) last week about a proposed
antenna suite for my RV-7A. For the marker beacon antenna, he said to run
RG-58 antenna cable out to the wingtip, cut 40" of the shield away from the
center conductor wire, fiberglass or simply tape the center conductor parallel
to the wing skin (approx. 3" from the wing skin) and you are done! No need to
even ground the shield which was cut away from the center conductor.
What could be simpler?
Hope this helps,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7AQB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS antenna in wingtip? |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Robert,
Depending on the GPS unit I'd say you'd be fine. I've gotten my Garmin
GPS 195 to work inside a Boeing 7xx using just the passenger window. On
the flip side, I've seen other GPS units that seem to have a hard time
tracking the SATS even with a full open view of the sky.
With that said though, I'm not building a RV and I'm not familiar with
the RV Wing Tip. For the GPS Antenna to work there you'll need to have
the top part of the wingtip be fiberglass and the larger the area the
better. You'll also want to place it at the end of the tip in the hopes
of getting as many 'inputs' as possible.
You could also to a quick test and put the receiver inside your
fiberglass wingtip and jury rig a quick setup. Won't totally duplicate
the final environment, but will at least give you a basic proof of
concept.
Regards,
Don H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Miller [mailto:rmiller3(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna in wingtip?
-->
I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments... Still
wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would work
well enough. Disadvantages? This would avoid at least the heat issue of
placement under the fiberglass cowl. Robert
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Robert,
Only negatives I can think of would be:
(1) the fuselage side and wing upper surface would possibly shield low
satellites from view of the annenna when looking in toward the fuselage.
This should be no worse than a firewall forward mounted GPS antenna trying
to look aft over the tail however.
(2) an extra long cable run would be needed to feed the antenna signal from
the wing tip area to your panel mounted (?) GPS receiver which would reduce
the signal strength at the receiver. IOW, signal loss over 15-18 ft would be
greater than 2-3 ft. Having said this my Lowrance GPS was supplied with
about a 15 ft cable which is far longer than I needed, good part of it is
coiled up under my panel.
Best advice I think would be to give a wing tip mount a try and see how it
performs. If it works to your satisfaction, great; if not, try an
alternative location (mine is on the top fuselage aft of the canopy track).
Antenna location on big airplanes is sometimes a trial and error thing too.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6 C-KGKZ (waiting for final paper)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Miller" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna in wingtip?
>
> I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
> Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would
work well enough.
> Disadvantages?
> This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the fiberglass
cowl.
> Robert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Although I am an electrical engineer, I'm not an expert on GPS, but my
understanding is due to the extremely high frequency of the signal, the
shorter the connection from the antenna to the receiver the better. I
suspect that mounting it in the wingtip would not be a good thing - lots
of signal loss.
Dick Tasker
Robert Miller wrote:
>
>I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
>Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would work
well enough.
>Disadvantages?
>This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the fiberglass cowl.
>Robert
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc. |
Bob and others,
I can't find any information about this kind of stuff in The Aeroelectric
Connection, so if you can throw any light on it I'd sure appreciate it.
I'd like a handful of indicators on the panel -- fuel pump on, starter
engaged, flaps extended, lo-v, etc. Can I simply wire them in parallel with
their related equipment, e.g. wire a "starter engaged" light in parallel with
the starter motor? And do you have any suggestions about good places to buy
annunciator lamps and whatnot? I guess there must be some nice looking kit
around.
While I'm thinking about indicator lights -- I couldn't understand how the
indicator works on the ground power plan you have on the website. Both sides
of it seem to be connected to the same piece of wire. How does that blighter
work?
With regard to a push-to-test switch for these lights, I'm assuming I can
wire them all into one switch via a diode to prevent them shorting each
other. Can you confirm that's the case?
By the way, do you know what the parts order turnaround & delivery times are
for the UK?
Many thanks.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Flexible bus bar |
http://www.conrardyco.com/buss.html
I wanted to show people on the list this product. It is a coated flexible
buss bar material. I use it for large power contactors 400 amps +. It is
much easier than using wire or bending copper. You cut it to the length you
need and drill the hole size that you need. You do not have to use lugs.
there part # 505053 is good for a 154 amps.
Ron Raby
N829R
Lancair ES
http://www.conrardyco.com/buss.html
======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Robert,
We have our antenna under the cowl and it seems to work fine.
Here is a suggestion:
1. Connect the **SHORTEST** possible cable between the antenna and GPS and
go to the "status" page of your GPS and note the "signal strength" of each
satellite as well as the "DOP" (Dilution of Precision, I think) values that
you have.
2. Replace this cable with cable of the length that would reach the wingtip
and capture the above values again (with the antenna out in "open space").
3. Run the cable over to the wingtip and stick the antenna inside and get
the values one more time.
The will be different as the satellitles are in motion but the overall value
you get should inidicate if you are introducing "loss" by the relevant cable
length and by the fact that the antenna is in the wingtip.
I did #1 and #3 under the cowl (because there was no long cable run) and
found no discernable difference so I went with it.
Hope this helps.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> Miller
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 9:08 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna in wingtip?
>
>
>
>
> I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
> Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an
> RV would work well enough.
> Disadvantages?
> This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the
> fiberglass cowl.
> Robert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ANUNNELEE(at)aol.com |
What is the voltage output on the LR3B-14 as supplied from B&C and can it be
adjusted?
Thanks,
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
Most likely, it was adjusted to 13.8V at B&C. You can also adjust it by
removing the black plastic plug on the back side and turning the
potentiometer. Clockwise will increase the charging voltage,
counter-clockwise will decrease. I don't remember for sure how quickly
it changes, but the number .2V/turn sticks in my mind for some reason.
Dave in Wichita
>
>
> What is the voltage output on the LR3B-14 as supplied from B&C and can
it
> be
> adjusted?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flexible bus bar |
>
>http://www.conrardyco.com/buss.html
>
>I wanted to show people on the list this product. It is a coated flexible
>buss bar material. I use it for large power contactors 400 amps +. It is
>much easier than using wire or bending copper. You cut it to the length you
>need and drill the hole size that you need. You do not have to use lugs.
>there part # 505053 is good for a 154 amps.
>
>Ron Raby
>
>N829R
>
>Lancair ES
>
>
>http://www.conrardyco.com/buss.html
These are point-to-point wiring replacements that one might
use as a jumper between two co-located contactors. They are
NOT distribution busses . . . you can't use these to replace
the hunk of copper or brass that runs across the back of a row
of breakers.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Hildebrand <phildebrand(at)pritchardindustrial.com> |
The regulator is pre-set at 14.4 volts and can be adjusted by
removing the round plastic plug from the side of the regulator and
adjusting the pot about 1/2 turn for 0.1 volt. Clockwise to increase CCW
to decrease voltage.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ANUNNELEE(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LR3B-14
What is the voltage output on the LR3B-14 as supplied from B&C and can
it be
adjusted?
Thanks,
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flexible bus bar |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hi Ron -
Could you post a source and some kind of pricing. Sounds like very good
stuff for the power distribution panel to connect the contactors.
Thanks,
John
> It is a coated flexible
> buss bar material. I use it for large power contactors 400 amps +. It is
> much easier than using wire or bending copper. You cut it to the length
> you need and drill the hole size that you need. You do not have to use
> lugs.
> there part # 505053 is good for a 154 amps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Automotive landing lights |
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 06/15/2003 8:56:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DENNCO 2
writes:
<< Hi OC Baker,
I remember reading a post several weeks ago by you on the AeroElectric forum
about your choice for landing/ Taxi lights on your Kiss airplane. I just
wanted to ask you if you were happy with your selection of the Pilot Automotive
Dual Series PL-1068BC driving/fog lights? That set sells for $59.95 at
Automotive Accessory Connection. I looked at the Pilot website and called them
and a
tech guy recommended the PL800C after I discribed what I wanted them for. That
set sells for $70 at AAC.
Were you planning to have both dual function lights on at the same time or
wire them separately for landing / taxi operations? I am still trying to decide
the pros and cons of the different models.
The Pilot Automotive web address is
www.pilotautomotive.com in case you would like to review their offerings.
Thanks.
~Dennis~ >>
6/16/2003
Hello Dennis, I looked at the PL800C unit as you suggested. I'm not sure
about the configuration. Does it have two bulbs or one in each shell? If it has
two bulbs are they behind lenses with diffierent diffusion / focal
characteristics so that one could serve as a landing light and the other as a taxi
light?
Here is my concept of the proper landing light and taxi light configuration.
The landing light is narrowly focused and aimed well below the pitch axis of
the aircraft so that when you are nose up on final approach the light is aimed
down at the runway which is a long (relatively) distance away. The taxi light
is more widely diffused and aimed more along the pitch axis of the airplane so
that you can see objects along and to the left and right of your intended
taxi path. Ideally then this might mean two different sets of shells, lenses,
focal lengths, and reflectors. But this ideal arrangement would mean more space
consumed in the wing or nose to accommodate the two different requirements
along with additional weight.
My PL-1068BC setup was chosen (after several false starts) as a compromise
(as so many things in building an aircraft are). There is only one PL-1068BC
shell in the leading edge of each wing behind a home molded (in my kitchen oven)
clear acrylic shield. Each shell has two bulbs, two reflectors, one molded
glass lens, and is a relatively compact unit. The two clear lens portions I am
arbitrarily calling the landing lights(s) and those two bulbs are controlled by
one landing light switch on the instrument panel. I am calling the two blue
lens portions the taxi light (s) and those two bulbs are controlled by one taxi
light switch on the instrument panel.
I can't tell you how well my system works because I haven't flown my airplane
yet -- it goes to the airport in July and I hope to fly before the end of the
year. First night flights, which cannot be done until Phase one testing is
complete, are a long ways off.
I hope that the above gives you some assistance in making your decision.
Please let us know what you decide and why.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
PS: I might also add that I am a bit ambivalent about this whole subject of
landing at night on a nice prepared surface (a runway) surrounded by friendly
people.
I flew attack jets in the USMC for about 10 years before being rudely thrust
into the helicopter business and sent off to Viet Nam with just a few hours
and a few months of training. It was a truly astounding, and terrifying
transition experience for many different reasons, but I will only mention one here.
That was the need to land the helicopter at night in an unprepared, remote,
and sometimes down right unfriendly piece of real estate. Lights were often
forbidden because they became instant bullet magnets and sometimes were useless
because of dust or debris being kicked up by the rotor wash. So landing at
night to pick up a wounded Marine sometimes took a level of skill, luck, and
detemination that makes landing on a continental US lighted runway seem like a
Sunday afternoon picnic regardless of the availability and quality of any landing
lights that the aircraft may possess.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | VOR/GPS Indicator Relay Assembly |
Hello all,
did anybody do the above mentioned relay board from Bob to switch one
indicator from GPS to NAV and has some experience with it concerning wiring?
I would appreciate a feedback, as I have some open questions concerning
wiring and components.
If not of general interest, please contact me directly.
Many thanks, appreciate your feedback
Werner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/GPS Indicator Relay Assembly |
>
>
>Hello all,
>
>did anybody do the above mentioned relay board from Bob to switch one
>indicator from GPS to NAV and has some experience with it concerning wiring?
>
>I would appreciate a feedback, as I have some open questions concerning
>wiring and components.
>
>If not of general interest, please contact me directly.
>
>Many thanks, appreciate your feedback
>
>Werner
That board and/or kit came from Eric Jones. We WERE working
parallel projects. It seemed more efficient to limit the
efforts to one facility.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flexible bus bar |
Erico tel 800-497-4304. I used it to make my contactor panel. I have some
kicking around. I could send you a foot or so.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flexible bus bar
>
> Hi Ron -
>
> Could you post a source and some kind of pricing. Sounds like very good
> stuff for the power distribution panel to connect the contactors.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
> > It is a coated flexible
> > buss bar material. I use it for large power contactors 400 amps +. It is
> > much easier than using wire or bending copper. You cut it to the length
> > you need and drill the hole size that you need. You do not have to use
> > lugs.
> > there part # 505053 is good for a 154 amps.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10600 Foster |
>
>,
>Email: rfoster1(at)rgv.rr.com
>Comments/Questions: I am having problems with the fuel guage in my
>Tripacer. Can you explain how these fuel guages work and possible way of
>troubleshooting the problem. It works intermittantly. It may have
>something to do with the grounds.
>
>Thanks
>Bob Foster
>N3739A
I am not familiar with the details of Piper's system
but irrespective of the airplane, the task is to inspect
all wiring and renew if questionable . . . especially
grounds. Make sure there is a ground wire from each
tank to the airframe. The "senders" are rotary resistors
that do wear out. These could be in need of replacement
also.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Stig Holm (stig.holm(at)telia.com) on Monday, June 16, 2003 at 14:34:50
>
>Monday, June 16, 2003
>
>Stig Holm
>
>,
>Email: stig.holm(at)telia.com
>Comments/Questions: Hi,Bob. I'm building an RV6 with an O-320 which I have
>decided to equip with dual electronic ignition (Lightspeed). For
>redundancy Im installing a backup battery which is normally off-line
>(both systems fed by the main electric system) but continously charged
>from the main system through a diode. My problem is that the backup
>battery has a max charging current of .66 amps and if the voltage of this
>battery for some reason has dropped, the charging current from the main
>system (14.2 volts minus some .3 volts drop over the diode) will easily
>damage the backup battery. I will therefore need some sort of charging
>limiter to maximize the charging current to .66 amps.
>How do I accomplish this?
> Regards
>Stig Holm
What size batteries are you using?
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
>
>
>I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
>Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would
>work well enough.
>Disadvantages?
>This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the fiberglass
>cowl.
It will probably work fine on the wingtip unless you've painted the
fiberglas with conductive paint. Of course the same caveat would
apply to cowl placement.
Coax length is a consideration but not generally a driving force
in small airplanes. Everyone who builds a GPS for airplanes
wishes every KingAir and Lear in the world will buy his product.
There probably isn't a single antenna cable for any system less
than 20 to 25 feet long in those airplanes. The radio is designed
to accommodate those installations. Use modern coax
(not RG-58) and you're going to be fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Automotive landing lights |
Bob mentions in his book the sensible system of using automotive hi-low beam lamps.
This makes great sense especially in single light aircraft; in fact I can't
imagine a reason not to do it. Please note that Wig-Wags work great using only
a single lamp if it is a hi-low beam type.
A guy I knew in the 1960's used 250W aircraft landing lights in his car for driving
fast at night. So he racked up an equipment violation AND a speeding ticket
with regularity. In 1966 the draft board sent him an official letter declaring
him 4F due to his "excessive traffic violations".
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | New PIDG crimper arrived |
Bob & others,
I took delivery of a new AMP ratchet crimp tool today, dies for PIDG
terminals, and an assortment of PIDG terminals. An expensive tool, but well
worth it. Got it from RS.
I've never used a PIDG terminal before, but I'm sold on them already. Those
blighters are solid! Try as I might, I couldn't get the terminals off with
brute force.
Nev
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
In a message dated 06/17/03 06:11:12 AM, bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments...
> >Still wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would
> >work well enough.
> >Disadvantages?
>
I've had very good luck just placing the antenna on the glareshield at the
base of the windshield.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR/GPS Indicator Relay Assembly |
Hello Bob,
thanks a lot, I had just downloaded the info from you and was not
aware of this, will contact Eric, and had already some user contacting me.
Many thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VOR/GPS Indicator Relay Assembly
>
> >
> >
> >Hello all,
> >
> >did anybody do the above mentioned relay board from Bob to switch one
> >indicator from GPS to NAV and has some experience with it concerning
wiring?
> >
> >I would appreciate a feedback, as I have some open questions concerning
> >wiring and components.
> >
> >If not of general interest, please contact me directly.
> >
> >Many thanks, appreciate your feedback
> >
> >Werner
>
> That board and/or kit came from Eric Jones. We WERE working
> parallel projects. It seemed more efficient to limit the
> efforts to one facility.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Bob...
You make reference to "modern coax" as opposed to RG-58. What is modern
coax?
I have been following the list for the past year and I guess missed
previous reference to this.
Thanks,
Chris Stone
RV-8 Wings...soon to be fuselage...soon to be wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna in wingtip?
-->
>
>
>I posted this question once before but didn't see any comments... Still
>wondering if a GPS antenna in the fiberglass wingtip of an RV would
>work well enough. Disadvantages?
>This would avoid at least the heat issue of placement under the
fiberglass
>cowl.
It will probably work fine on the wingtip unless you've painted the
fiberglas with conductive paint. Of course the same caveat would
apply to cowl placement.
Coax length is a consideration but not generally a driving force
in small airplanes. Everyone who builds a GPS for airplanes
wishes every KingAir and Lear in the world will buy his product.
There probably isn't a single antenna cable for any system less
than 20 to 25 feet long in those airplanes. The radio is designed
to accommodate those installations. Use modern coax
(not RG-58) and you're going to be fine.
Bob . . .
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Another option for GPS antenna location for tip-ups is on top of the support
channel for the cabin frame. Lower the front edge to be flush with the bottom
of
the rollbar and mount the rear a half inch or so lower than shown in the plans.
(this was blessed by a call to Vans support) My Garmin 35 sits nicely on top of
the channel. I originally did this to make the glass easier to clean, and saw
it
would be a good spot for the reciever...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A FWF "almost" done, staring at emp fairing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rwilliams" <rwilliams(at)C1ama.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Level Switch |
Hugh MacInnes has a whole page [77] on scavenge pumps for turbochargers in
his book Turbochargers (available from Aircraft Spruce among others).
Simplicity enhances reliability, as Bob so wisely and frequently reminds us.
I think I'd consider finding a rock-solid pump and give it juice whenever
the engine is running.
As for the drain reservoir, who not use a tiny oil cooler? Just make sure
that the surge tank at the top is large enough to handle the foamy oil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc. |
Hi Neville-
I was originally going to build an annunciator panel with some neat incandescent
blocks that locked together, but after wrestling with the required diodes and
additional connections required for PTT, I took Bob Nuckolls' suggestion and used
LEDs instead. They are virtually permanent and are tested on every preflight (well,
most of them anyway) I just finished putting together a panel on the cheap with
10
main LED lamp units and four spares- the display is 140mm wide and 15mm high (two
rows of seven lamps). They are pretty much for the same functions you mention,
plus
low fuel R/L, EIS main warning light, canopy latched, low oil pressure etc. Here's
a
link to DigiKey's catalog page:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T032/1150.pdf
The ones I used were Fig. 3 at the bottom of the page, MU04-X101, available in
red
yellow and green, three LEDs in each unit for $1.32 ea. After some testing, I
opted
to run them at 30ma to increase brightness (240 ohm resistors) which should be
okay
as their duty cycle should be quite low. (I ran one for 4 weeks solid at about
45ma
without appreciable dimming) They are soldered direct to a phenolic project board
(fiberglass would probably be better) and wired to a 15 pin d-sub connector on
a 5"
long pigtail. I've probably got about $40 in the whole thing. I'm also planning
to
add a couple of zeners and a DPDT switch for a dimmer, just not sure what value
to
use yet. The lettering overlay is simply part of an AutoCAD drawing printed on
clear
plastic with a laser printer. Neat little roll yer own project.
I've got the schematic in AutoCAD if you'd like a copy.
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Neville Kilford wrote:
> I'd like a handful of indicators on the panel -- fuel pump on, starter
> engaged, flaps extended, lo-v, etc. Can I simply wire them in parallel with
> their related equipment, e.g. wire a "starter engaged" light in parallel with
> the starter motor? And do you have any suggestions about good places to buy
> annunciator lamps and whatnot? I guess there must be some nice looking kit
> around.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc. |
| From: | "Don Honabach" <don(at)pcperfect.com> |
Mark,
>> the display is 140mm wide and 15mm high (two rows of seven lamps).
Any pictures?
Thanks,
Don Honabach
don(at)pcperfect.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips [mailto:ripsteel(at)edge.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc.
-->
Hi Neville-
I was originally going to build an annunciator panel with some neat
incandescent blocks that locked together, but after wrestling with the
required diodes and additional connections required for PTT, I took Bob
Nuckolls' suggestion and used LEDs instead. They are virtually
permanent and are tested on every preflight (well, most of them anyway)
I just finished putting together a panel on the cheap with 10 main LED
lamp units and four spares- the display is 140mm wide and 15mm high (two
rows of seven lamps). They are pretty much for the same functions you
mention, plus low fuel R/L, EIS main warning light, canopy latched, low
oil pressure etc. Here's a link to DigiKey's catalog page:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T032/1150.pdf
The ones I used were Fig. 3 at the bottom of the page, MU04-X101,
available in red yellow and green, three LEDs in each unit for $1.32 ea.
After some testing, I opted to run them at 30ma to increase brightness
(240 ohm resistors) which should be okay as their duty cycle should be
quite low. (I ran one for 4 weeks solid at about 45ma without
appreciable dimming) They are soldered direct to a phenolic project
board (fiberglass would probably be better) and wired to a 15 pin d-sub
connector on a 5" long pigtail. I've probably got about $40 in the
whole thing. I'm also planning to add a couple of zeners and a DPDT
switch for a dimmer, just not sure what value to use yet. The lettering
overlay is simply part of an AutoCAD drawing printed on clear plastic
with a laser printer. Neat little roll yer own project.
I've got the schematic in AutoCAD if you'd like a copy.
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Neville Kilford wrote:
> I'd like a handful of indicators on the panel -- fuel pump on, starter
> engaged, flaps extended, lo-v, etc. Can I simply wire them in
> parallel with their related equipment, e.g. wire a "starter engaged"
> light in parallel with the starter motor? And do you have any
> suggestions about good places to buy annunciator lamps and whatnot? I
> guess there must be some nice looking kit around.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | GPS antenna in wingtip? |
>
>Bob...
>
>You make reference to "modern coax" as opposed to RG-58. What is modern
>coax?
>
>I have been following the list for the past year and I guess missed
>previous reference to this.
RG400, RG141, etc.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc. |
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Mark -
I'd love to get a copy of the schematic in AutoCAD. Email it to me.
Many thanks for doing the ground work!
Cheers,
John
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T032/1150.pdf
>
>
> I've got the schematic in AutoCAD if you'd like a copy.
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
Bob, I have a Microair radio which has worked perfectly during taxi tests of
my RV-8A, but recently on my first flight, although my ground crew had heard
me perfectly when I taxiied out to the runway, once I was in the air, they
heard nothing but static when I transmitted.
I have since tracked the noise down to my turn coordinator. When the turn
coordinator is not running, transmissions are clear. When it is, i'm unreadable.
Does the turn coordinator require a shielded power supply wire?
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna in wingtip? |
Any photos of this available?
Thanks.
Robert
Mark Phillips wrote:
>
> Another option for GPS antenna location for tip-ups is on top of the support
> channel for the cabin frame. Lower the front edge to be flush with the bottom
of
> the rollbar and mount the rear a half inch or so lower than shown in the plans.
> (this was blessed by a call to Vans support) My Garmin 35 sits nicely on top
of
> the channel. I originally did this to make the glass easier to clean, and saw
it
> would be a good spot for the reciever...
>
> >From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark -6A FWF "almost" done, staring at emp fairing...
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bob,
I ordered the S700-2-3 2 position switch based on page 11-18 of the "Connection"
where you mention that it is recommended for combination battery-master/alternator-field
switching. I installed it not utilizing the upper poles. In the
down position all is off. In the up postion both the battery and the alternator
contactors are energized.
Now looking at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
I see the labeling of the switch for "DC Power master, Battery" appears to show
an Off-On-On 3 position switch where the battery can be turned on by itself and
then the alternator can be engaged. I would like to be able to turn on the
battery without the alternator for power supply without the alternator energized.
I don't see an Off-On-On switch listed on page 11-16. What am I missing about
the Swich indicated in the PDF file above? Is there a Off-On-On 3 position
switch? Or can another be wired in this way?
Also, I need a 2-1 3 position switch to switch from one ignition coil to the other
ignition coil so that only one is on at a time. This switch is not listed
on the Aeroelectric parts list on the B&C web site. Where is a good place to find
it?
Thanks,
Ned Thomas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benford2(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/18/2003 6:01:20 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Bob, I have a Microair radio which has worked perfectly during taxi tests of
>
> my RV-8A, but recently on my first flight, although my ground crew had heard
>
> me perfectly when I taxiied out to the runway, once I was in the air, they
> heard nothing but static when I transmitted.
>
> I have since tracked the noise down to my turn coordinator. When the turn
> coordinator is not running, transmissions are clear. When it is, i'm
> unreadable.
> Does the turn coordinator require a shielded power supply wire?
>
> Walt Shipley
>
Is it the Waltrud / Falcon TC ?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Automobile lights |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<<....skip.....Bob mentions in his book the sensible system of using
automotive hi-low beam lamps. This makes great sense especially in single light
aircraft; in fact I can't imagine a reason not to do it....skip.... >>
6/18/2003
Hello Eric, I researched and even bought some automobile OEM version lights
before I finally settled on the Pilot after market driving lights.
The problem that I encountered with all of the OEM type equipment is that
they were just too large to put into the leading edge of my wings and creating
a
mounting system for what amounted to a glass blob was a significant burden /
challenge.
Also no space available in the engine cowling area. This left some sort of
bracket arrangement fastened to my fixed landing gear -- that didn't appeal to
me at all.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
>
>
><<....skip.....Bob mentions in his book the sensible system of using
>automotive hi-low beam lamps. This makes great sense especially in single
>light
>aircraft; in fact I can't imagine a reason not to do it....skip.... >>
>The problem that I encountered with all of the OEM type equipment is that
>they were just too large to put into the leading edge of my wings and
>creating a
>mounting system for what amounted to a glass blob was a significant burden /
>challenge.
OC,
Bob has referenced a small, compact automotive headlight, #4352 that is
only about 1-3/4 tall and about 5-1/2" wide. I have been going through the
same dilemma as you and I went and bought a #4352 type recently and it is a
very small, rectangular shaped sealed halogen unit. With that said, you
got my interest with the dual beamed Pilot unit. Price is quite a bit more
than the 4352 ($24.99 @ Auto Zone), but it seems worth it. Can you buy
those locally, or do you have to order them from Pilot?
Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Windows crashes |
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Date: 2003/06/18 Wed AM 09:16:40 EDT
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Windows crashes
>
>
Bob,
ME was the last version of Windows based on DOS. Windows 2000 Pro could be considered
NT 5, as it is based on NTFS, as is Windows XP.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rwilliams" <rwilliams(at)C1ama.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Automotive landing lights |
I'm a total electrical ignoramus, so please be patient with my questions
about landing/taxi lights!
I know how normal tungsten lights work and how halogen lights operate. What
are the advantages and disadvantages of Xenon and HID lights?
What are the FAA requirements (if any) for landing lights?
Thanks!
Bob Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I ordered the S700-2-3 2 position switch based on page 11-18 of the
>"Connection" where you mention that it is recommended for combination
>battery-master/alternator-field switching. I installed it not utilizing
>the upper poles. In the down position all is off. In the up postion both
>the battery and the alternator contactors are energized.
Earliest versions of power distribution diagrams suggested the 2-3 on-on
switch for both battery and alternator because (1) there is no operational
imperative or advantage in NOT having an alternator ON during cranking, (2)
it reduces the number of checklist items by one step because you don't
have to set DC PWR MASTER switch to ALT position after engine start and
(3) if you have a breaker supplied crowbar OVM and use a PULLABLE breaker,
then there is still a handy way to turn off a misbehaving alternator in
flight and disable the alternator for battery-only, ground-ops.
If I were building an airplane today, I'd probably go the 2-3 switch and
crowbar-breaker route as the simplest, lowest cost approach to DC power
system management.
>Now looking at:
>
>http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
>
>I see the labeling of the switch for "DC Power master, Battery" appears to
>show an Off-On-On 3 position switch where the battery can be turned on by
>itself and then the alternator can be engaged. I would like to be able to
>turn on the battery without the alternator for power supply without the
>alternator energized. I don't see an Off-On-On switch listed on page
>11-16. What am I missing about the Swich indicated in the PDF file above?
>Is there a Off-On-On 3 position switch? Or can another be wired in this way?
. . . 2-10 switch is an ON-ON-ON . . . you make it an OFF-ON-ON by
not connecting a wire to one of the ON positions. Later revisions
to Z-figures show how the 2-10 switch can be wired to provide the
OFF-ON-ON feature you've noted.
>Also, I need a 2-1 3 position switch to switch from one ignition coil to
>the other ignition coil so that only one is on at a time. This switch is
>not listed on the Aeroelectric parts list on the B&C web site. Where is a
>good place to find it?
Carling 2GM51-73 on http://www.mouser.com/catalog/613/645.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob, I have a Microair radio which has worked perfectly during taxi tests of
>my RV-8A, but recently on my first flight, although my ground crew had heard
>me perfectly when I taxiied out to the runway, once I was in the air, they
>heard nothing but static when I transmitted.
>
>I have since tracked the noise down to my turn coordinator. When the turn
>coordinator is not running, transmissions are clear. When it is, i'm
>unreadable.
>Does the turn coordinator require a shielded power supply wire?
>
>Walt Shipley
Sounds like you may have one of those famously noisy turn
coordinators that pop up with problems here on the list. You
can try a DC power filter
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.html
If your noise turns out to be magnetically coupled (also common
with this instrument) you can try cutting a piece of flashing
steel to a width equal to case length behind panel and long
enough to wrap around the instrument about three times.
Hold strip of metal on instrument with tye-wrap or glass
fiber strapping tape.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pilot Automotive landing lights |
Both Xe and HID lamps are gas discharge lamps, with the primary advantage of
being resistant to damage from vibration (no filament to break), and since
there is no free lunch the disadvantage of both is initial cost especially
for Xe lamps which require an expensive high voltage power supply. Both
types provide illumination that is closer to daylight than tungsten or
halogen lamps - Xe is essentially the same color temperature as sunlight
which is why Xe lamps are used for studio lighting and cinema projection.
For a landing light on an aircraft with a limited power budget the HID lamp
would be a good choice because a 10 watt HID lamp will give approximately as
much light as a conventional 55 watt halogen headlight. Lamp life would be
on the order of the typical aircraft engine's TBO.
A quick search turned up this link for a small HID lamp suitable for either
a landing or taxi light (the beam is adjustable):
http://www.sarind.com/acatalog/hid.html Cheap it is not at US$380 but it
is mounted in a housing suitable for underwater use so rain would not affect
it. For about $100 more check out an automotive lighting HID conversion kit
with two "low beam" lamps at
http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-5667.cfm (but these are rather
large lamps).
The FAR 91.205 (c) (4) requires "If the aircraft is operated for hire, one
electric landing light. " That's all.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rwilliams
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pilot Automotive landing lights
I'm a total electrical ignoramus, so please be patient with my questions
about landing/taxi lights!
I know how normal tungsten lights work and how halogen lights operate. What
are the advantages and disadvantages of Xenon and HID lights?
What are the FAA requirements (if any) for landing lights?
Thanks!
Bob Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Pilot Automotive landing lights |
FWIW, Pilot Automotive has a 4" round HID. No price quoted. Supposedly
available at Pep Boys, Auto Zone, and others.
See http://www.pilotautomotive.com/pilot2ad1.htm
>
>Both Xe and HID lamps are gas discharge lamps, with the primary advantage of
>being resistant to damage from vibration (no filament to break), and since
>there is no free lunch the disadvantage of both is initial cost especially
>for Xe lamps which require an expensive high voltage power supply. Both
>types provide illumination that is closer to daylight than tungsten or
>halogen lamps - Xe is essentially the same color temperature as sunlight
>which is why Xe lamps are used for studio lighting and cinema projection.
>
>For a landing light on an aircraft with a limited power budget the HID lamp
>would be a good choice because a 10 watt HID lamp will give approximately as
>much light as a conventional 55 watt halogen headlight. Lamp life would be
>on the order of the typical aircraft engine's TBO.
>
>A quick search turned up this link for a small HID lamp suitable for either
>a landing or taxi light (the beam is adjustable):
>http://www.sarind.com/acatalog/hid.html Cheap it is not at US$380 but it
>is mounted in a housing suitable for underwater use so rain would not affect
>it. For about $100 more check out an automotive lighting HID conversion kit
>with two "low beam" lamps at
>http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-5667.cfm (but these are rather
>large lamps).
>
>The FAR 91.205 (c) (4) requires "If the aircraft is operated for hire, one
>electric landing light. " That's all.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Rob Housman
>Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
>Airfarame complete
>Irvine, CA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rwilliams
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pilot Automotive landing lights
>
>
>I'm a total electrical ignoramus, so please be patient with my questions
>about landing/taxi lights!
>
>I know how normal tungsten lights work and how halogen lights operate. What
>are the advantages and disadvantages of Xenon and HID lights?
>
>What are the FAA requirements (if any) for landing lights?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bob Williams
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot Automotive landing lights |
If you are looking for a turnkey solution for the RV family of aircraft
take a look at the link below and click on "New Products" under the picture
of the 2 RV's. I just got two kits (landing and taxi) for my Rocket and
the package is very nice. it could be modified to fit a lot of different
installation applications.
http://www.duckworksaviation.com/
scot
>
>
>FWIW, Pilot Automotive has a 4" round HID. No price quoted. Supposedly
>available at Pep Boys, Auto Zone, and others.
> See http://www.pilotautomotive.com/pilot2ad1.htm
>
>
> <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
> >
> >Both Xe and HID lamps are gas discharge lamps, with the primary advantage of
> >being resistant to damage from vibration (no filament to break), and since
> >there is no free lunch the disadvantage of both is initial cost especially
> >for Xe lamps which require an expensive high voltage power supply. Both
> >types provide illumination that is closer to daylight than tungsten or
> >halogen lamps - Xe is essentially the same color temperature as sunlight
> >which is why Xe lamps are used for studio lighting and cinema projection.
> >
> >For a landing light on an aircraft with a limited power budget the HID lamp
> >would be a good choice because a 10 watt HID lamp will give approximately as
> >much light as a conventional 55 watt halogen headlight. Lamp life would be
> >on the order of the typical aircraft engine's TBO.
> >
> >A quick search turned up this link for a small HID lamp suitable for either
> >a landing or taxi light (the beam is adjustable):
> >http://www.sarind.com/acatalog/hid.html Cheap it is not at US$380 but it
> >is mounted in a housing suitable for underwater use so rain would not affect
> >it. For about $100 more check out an automotive lighting HID conversion kit
> >with two "low beam" lamps at
> >http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-5667.cfm (but these are rather
> >large lamps).
> >
> >The FAR 91.205 (c) (4) requires "If the aircraft is operated for hire, one
> >electric landing light. " That's all.
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Rob Housman
> >Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
> >Airfarame complete
> >Irvine, CA
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rwilliams
> >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pilot Automotive landing lights
> >
> >
> >I'm a total electrical ignoramus, so please be patient with my questions
> >about landing/taxi lights!
> >
> >I know how normal tungsten lights work and how halogen lights operate. What
> >are the advantages and disadvantages of Xenon and HID lights?
> >
> >What are the FAA requirements (if any) for landing lights?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Bob Williams
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Pilot Automotive landing lights |
>
>Both Xe and HID lamps are gas discharge lamps, with the primary advantage of
>being resistant to damage from vibration (no filament to break), and since
>there is no free lunch the disadvantage of both is initial cost especially
>for Xe lamps which require an expensive high voltage power supply. Both
>types provide illumination that is closer to daylight than tungsten or
>halogen lamps - Xe is essentially the same color temperature as sunlight
>which is why Xe lamps are used for studio lighting and cinema projection.
>
>For a landing light on an aircraft with a limited power budget the HID lamp
>would be a good choice because a 10 watt HID lamp will give approximately as
>much light as a conventional 55 watt halogen headlight. Lamp life would be
>on the order of the typical aircraft engine's TBO.
>
>A quick search turned up this link for a small HID lamp suitable for either
>a landing or taxi light (the beam is adjustable):
>http://www.sarind.com/acatalog/hid.html Cheap it is not at US$380 but it
>is mounted in a housing suitable for underwater use so rain would not affect
>it. For about $100 more check out an automotive lighting HID conversion kit
>with two "low beam" lamps at
>http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-5667.cfm (but these are rather
>large lamps).
>
>The FAR 91.205 (c) (4) requires "If the aircraft is operated for hire, one
>electric landing light. " That's all.
A caveat on HID lamps . . . we installed on the AGATE Bonanza
at RAC a couple of years ago. It was the Lopresti kit I believe.
Really nice for night ops . . . however . . . because its color
temperature is so much higher that incandescent lamps, it's
practically invisible against daylight blue sky. Not nearly
so practical for daytime collision avoidance as lamps with
filaments in them.
For those wanting to know a bit more about these products,
here are some general informational links
http://www.plasmacoalition.org/plasma_writeups/lighting-plasmas.pdf
http://www.solarc.net/docs/divefaqs.html
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/Xenarc.html
http://www.autoresearchanalysts.com/feat06.html
http://www.xenon-hid.com/HID_HEADLIGHTS.htm
. . . and some technical ones . . .
http://www.ec-central.org/magazine/PDF/art_9_may_jun_00.pdf
http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~pel/pdf-files/conf56.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Windows crashes |
Hello Cy,
Wednesday, June 18, 2003, 12:31:22 PM, you wrote:
CG> I use Windows 2000 Pro, seldom shut it off, seldom crashes. My biggest
CG> problem is that it will slow down after I open several internet explorer
CG> windows (16 or more). I like the ability to do the 3 finger salute and shut
CG> down links that are left after using such programs as acrobat and a couple
CG> others. I check these when I remember. But I just don't shut my computer
CG> off. I use a fire wall. It generally runs from install of some software or
CG> update to the next before I even re-boot. This was not the case with
CG> windows 95 or 98.
Try using Mozilla (www.mozilla.org) as you web browser, instead. It
has built-in pop-up blocking, and you can open either multiple
windows, or multiple tabs in a single window. I often have many tabs
and windows open on Win2K with no slowness noted at all.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Spencer" <djs(at)54Transmission.com> |
I just want to thank everybody who gave advice, tips and pointers about my
radio noise and static in our Beech A23-24 (Super3).
After installing a centre-point ground system along with new positive
battery cable, ammeter cable and circuit breakers for the alternator...
THERE IS NO NOISE OF ANY KIND... except the people I'm communicating with.
This is the best communication I've ever had in any of our planes and
especially the old renters we used to use...
Again... THANKS
David J. Spencer
Super3
djs(at)54Transmission.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc. |
Mark,
Thanks for that info. There are so many good bright LEDs that you're
right -- they probably are the way to go. A schematic would be very useful;
I'm rather hazy on the whole diode / ptt thing. Shall I download it from
somewhere or will you send?
Many thanks.
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Push-to-test, indicator lamps, etc.
>
> Hi Neville-
>
> I was originally going to build an annunciator panel with some neat
incandescent
> blocks that locked together, but after wrestling with the required diodes
and
> additional connections required for PTT, I took Bob Nuckolls' suggestion
and used
> LEDs instead. They are virtually permanent and are tested on every
preflight (well,
> most of them anyway) I just finished putting together a panel on the cheap
with 10
> main LED lamp units and four spares- the display is 140mm wide and 15mm
high (two
> rows of seven lamps). They are pretty much for the same functions you
mention, plus
> low fuel R/L, EIS main warning light, canopy latched, low oil pressure etc.
Here's a
> link to DigiKey's catalog page:
>
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T032/1150.pdf
>
> The ones I used were Fig. 3 at the bottom of the page, MU04-X101, available
in red
> yellow and green, three LEDs in each unit for $1.32 ea. After some
testing, I opted
> to run them at 30ma to increase brightness (240 ohm resistors) which should
be okay
> as their duty cycle should be quite low. (I ran one for 4 weeks solid at
about 45ma
> without appreciable dimming) They are soldered direct to a phenolic
project board
> (fiberglass would probably be better) and wired to a 15 pin d-sub connector
on a 5"
> long pigtail. I've probably got about $40 in the whole thing. I'm also
planning to
> add a couple of zeners and a DPDT switch for a dimmer, just not sure what
value to
> use yet. The lettering overlay is simply part of an AutoCAD drawing
printed on clear
> plastic with a laser printer. Neat little roll yer own project.
>
> I've got the schematic in AutoCAD if you'd like a copy.
>
> >From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
> Neville Kilford wrote:
>
> > I'd like a handful of indicators on the panel -- fuel pump on, starter
> > engaged, flaps extended, lo-v, etc. Can I simply wire them in parallel
with
> > their related equipment, e.g. wire a "starter engaged" light in parallel
with
> > the starter motor? And do you have any suggestions about good places to
buy
> > annunciator lamps and whatnot? I guess there must be some nice looking
kit
> > around.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Windows crashes |
Hello Don,
Wednesday, June 18, 2003, 11:54:23 PM, you wrote:
DH> We've found that if you leave the core OS alone, Windows 2000/XP
DH> will run practically forever without crashing. The more stuff that
DH> goes into overlaying with the core OS and generally the more
DH> problems you have (i.e. filter drivers for firewalls and virus
DH> protection or badly written drivers), but I'm still impressed with
DH> how much abuse these newer OSes take and keep working.
Seems to me that you are saying if you use the system, it crashes, and
if you don't use the system, it is very stable. Duh?
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Weiner
Subject: VIRUS
>Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
>your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
>out of your system.
>
>Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
>book WAS infected.
>
>Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
>it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by
>Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days before
>damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
>address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
>
>Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
>
>YOU MUST DO THIS.
>
>1. Go to start, Find or search option.
>
>2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
>
>3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
>drives
>you may have.
>4. Click "find now"
>
>5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
>IT!
>
>6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
>file without opening it.
>
>7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
>to
>the Recycle Bin.
>
>8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
>BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
>
>To Do This:
>
>a) Open a new e-mail message
>
>b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
>
>c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
>
>d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
This is a hoax as outlined on the Norton website:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Weiner
> To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
> Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
> >book WAS infected.
> >
> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected
by
> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days
before
> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
> >
> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
> >
> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
> >
> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
> >
> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> >
> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
> >drives
> >you may have.
> >4. Click "find now"
> >
> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
> >IT!
> >
> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
> >file without opening it.
> >
> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
> >to
> >the Recycle Bin.
> >
> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
> >
> >To Do This:
> >
> >a) Open a new e-mail message
> >
> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
> >
> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
> >
> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello Dave,
this is a HOAX, DO NOT APPLY THIS!!!!
see http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file
Please check always when you get such messages trying to imply the virus
scanner does not detect.
Kind regards
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Weiner
> To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
> Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
> >book WAS infected.
> >
> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected
by
> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days
before
> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
> >
> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
> >
> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
> >
> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
> >
> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> >
> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
> >drives
> >you may have.
> >4. Click "find now"
> >
> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
> >IT!
> >
> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
> >file without opening it.
> >
> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
> >to
> >the Recycle Bin.
> >
> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
> >
> >To Do This:
> >
> >a) Open a new e-mail message
> >
> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
> >
> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
> >
> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
This is a hoax as outlined on the Norton website:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Weiner
> To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
> Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
> >book WAS infected.
> >
> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected
by
> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days
before
> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
> >
> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
> >
> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
> >
> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
> >
> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> >
> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
> >drives
> >you may have.
> >4. Click "find now"
> >
> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
> >IT!
> >
> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
> >file without opening it.
> >
> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
> >to
> >the Recycle Bin.
> >
> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
> >
> >To Do This:
> >
> >a) Open a new e-mail message
> >
> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
> >
> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
> >
> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Steer" <bsteer(at)gwi.net> |
This is a hoax, intended to cause undue concern. jdbgmgr.exe is a legitimate
file. For any doubters, check the www.symantec.com web site.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Weiner
> To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
> Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
> >book WAS infected.
> >
> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by
> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days before
> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
> >
> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
> >
> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
> >
> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
> >
> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> >
> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
> >drives
> >you may have.
> >4. Click "find now"
> >
> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
> >IT!
> >
> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
> >file without opening it.
> >
> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
> >to
> >the Recycle Bin.
> >
> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
> >
> >To Do This:
> >
> >a) Open a new e-mail message
> >
> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
> >
> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
> >
> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
Sorry Dave -- you've been suckered. This is not a virus -- it is a
hoax and the file is a normal part of Windows. Don not delete the file...
Please refrain from propagating virus alerts -- Everyone should take
responsibility for their own system and it should stop there.
Dave wrote:
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Weiner
>To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
>Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could
> be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: VIRUS - Virus hoax |
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
Type: <http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/refa.html#hoax>Hoax
This hoax, like
the<http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warning.html>
SULFNBK.EXE Warning hoax, tries to encourage you to delete a legitimate
Windows file from your computer. Jdbgmgr.exe is the file to which the hoax
refers, and it is the Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java. The
Jdbgmgr.exe file may be installed when you install Windows.
NOTE: Recent versions of this hoax take advantage of the recent outbreak of
the
<http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbear@mm.html>W32.bugbear@mm
worm. The Jdbgmgr.exe file mentioned in the hoax has a bear icon. The
actual
<http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbear@mm.html>W32.bugbear@mm
worm file is a .exe file and does not have a bear icon.
The Windows Jdbgmgr.exe file has a teddy bear icon in the hoax, as
illustrated below:
CAUTION: A virus can infect Jdbgmgr.exe. The
<http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.efortune.31384@mm.html>W32.Efortune.31384@mm
virus in particular targets this file. Norton AntiVirus has provided
protection against W32.Efortune.31384@mm since May 11, 2001.
NOTE: If you have already deleted the Jdbgmgr.exe file, in most cases, you
do not need to re-install it. The following quote is extracted from the
Microsoft Knowledge Base article,
"<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q322993>Virus
Hoax: Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java (Jdbgmgr.exe) Is Not a Virus
(Q322993)."
"The Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java (Jdbgmgr.exe) is only used by
Microsoft Visual J++ 1.1 developers.
If you follow the e-mail message instructions and delete this file, you do
not have to recover it unless you use Microsoft Visual J++ 1.1 to develop
Java programs on Windows XP, Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98 Second Edition,
Windows 98, or Windows 95."
If you need to restore this file, follow the instructions in
"<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q322993>Virus
Hoax: Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java (Jdbgmgr.exe) Is Not a Virus
(Q322993)."
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Weiner
>To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
>Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
> >book WAS infected.
> >
> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by
> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days
> before
> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
> >
> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
> >
> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
> >
> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
> >
> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> >
> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
> >drives
> >you may have.
> >4. Click "find now"
> >
> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
> >IT!
> >
> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
> >file without opening it.
> >
> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
> >to
> >the Recycle Bin.
> >
> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
> >
> >To Do This:
> >
> >a) Open a new e-mail message
> >
> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
> >
> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
> >
> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
This is probably a hoax, NOT a virus. The JDBGMGR.EXE file is a legit
Windows operating system file, see
http://www.vmyths.com/hoax.cfm?id=275&page=3 for details.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airfarame complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Weiner
Subject: VIRUS
>Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
>your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
>out of your system.
>
>Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
>book WAS infected.
>
>Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
>it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by
>Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for 14 days
before
>damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
>address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
>
>Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
>
>YOU MUST DO THIS.
>
>1. Go to start, Find or search option.
>
>2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
>
>3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
>drives
>you may have.
>4. Click "find now"
>
>5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
>IT!
>
>6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
>file without opening it.
>
>7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
>to
>the Recycle Bin.
>
>8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
>BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
>
>To Do This:
>
>a) Open a new e-mail message
>
>b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
>
>c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
>
>d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ageless Wings" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
DO NOT DELETE JDBMGR.EXE ... THIS IS A HOAX...THAT PROGRAM IS NECESSARY FOR
YOUR BROWSER.
Here's a little more on it:
>Recently there has been some panic about "jdbgmgr.exe", a supposed
>virus which isn't detected by most virus scanners.
>
>jdbgmgr.exe is the Java Debugger Manager. This is a well known hoax and
>not a virus (there is one well known virus which targets jdbgmgr.exe,
>but it is detected by the major anti-virus products and can be cleaned
>without deleting the file).
>
>See:
>
><http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.h
oax.html>
>
>for details about the hoax.
>
>In general, you should be wary of any virus warning that advises you that
>standard virus scanners will not detect it. The anti-virus companies
>are pretty good at responding quickly to new virii.
>
>If you receive a message like this, please check something like the
>Symantec Online Virus and Hoax Encyclopedia:
>
><http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/vinfodb.html>
>
>or contact us (security(at)uchicago.edu) before spreading the word.
Harley
============================================================================
===================
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:50 AM
>> To: Undisclosed-Recipient:@matronics.com;
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Steve Weiner
>> To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
>> Subject: VIRUS
>>
>>
>> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could be in
>> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
>> >out of your system.
>> >
>> >Unfortunately, a virus has been passed on to me by a contact. My address
>> >book WAS infected.
>> >
>> >Since you are in my address book, there is a good chance you will find
>> >it in your computer too. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not
>> detected by
>> >Norton or McAfee antivirus systems. The virus sits quietly for
>> 14 days before
>> >damaging the system. It is sent automatically by messenger and by the
>> >address book, whether or not you sent e-mail to your contacts.
>> >
>> >Here's how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it:
>> >
>> >YOU MUST DO THIS.
>> >
>> >1. Go to start, Find or search option.
>> >
>> >2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
>> >
>> >3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and any other
>> >drives
>> >you may have.
>> >4. Click "find now"
>> >
>> >5. The Virus has a Teddy Bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe DO NOT OPEN
>> >IT!
>> >
>> >6. Go to Edit (on the menu bar) and choose "select all" to highlight the
>> >file without opening it.
>> >
>> >7. Now go to File (on the menu bar) and select delete. It will then go
>> >to
>> >the Recycle Bin.
>> >
>> >8. IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS
>> >BOOK, SO THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS.
>> >
>> >To Do This:
>> >
>> >a) Open a new e-mail message
>> >
>> >b) Click the icon of the address book next to the "TO"
>> >
>> >c) Highlight every name and add to "BCC" (which means blind copy)
>> >
>> >d) Copy this message and paste to e-mail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Automotive landing lights |
>
>
>>
>>Both Xe and HID lamps are gas discharge lamps, with the primary advantage of
>>being resistant to damage from vibration (no filament to break), and since
>>there is no free lunch the disadvantage of both is initial cost especially
>>for Xe lamps which require an expensive high voltage power supply. Both
>>types provide illumination that is closer to daylight than tungsten or
>>halogen lamps - Xe is essentially the same color temperature as sunlight
>>which is why Xe lamps are used for studio lighting and cinema projection.
>>
>>
In fact that is not the only type of bright Xenon lamp used in
automotive. There are also incandescent bulbs that are filled with
Xenon. Xenon atoms are heavy and slow moving, and that makes a low heat
conductivity of the gas. As a result the filament looses less heat due
to gas heat conductivity and takes less electric power to get hot and
produce the light output. In addition heavy Xenon makes a good
protection against evaporation of Tungsten, many Tungsten atoms which
got eveporated are pushed back after collisions with Xenon atoms. That
offers much longer lifetime of the filament in regular operating
temperature, or it allows operation in a higher temperature with
increased output and whiter light. I did not see such lights with high
power good for landing lights, but there are many bright Xenon filled
bulbs good for nav lights. They are used in automotive left/right
flashers and they sell ~$10 per package of two bulbs.
Jerzy
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)bestnetpc.com> |
Suckered? Well maybe... I had to reformat my computer a while back after a virus
slipped by my protection. I'd rather inform those that may be affected.
As far as propagating virus alerts and simply taking care of my system and letting
it end there... I'll make sure you're not notified when a real hazard surfaces.
If you read the Windows page on this file, it's used by advanced script writers
and has no foul deleting. For those who have, simply reinstall it.
The first Aero Electric lister who replied that this was indeed a hoax was appreciated,
and forwarded to those that got the alert.
Steve, you take care of yourself, but I'd still appreciate any alerts from others.
Now, do you really want to know how I'd like to respond to your slam, or should
we get back to wiring?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Canyon
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
Sorry Dave -- you've been suckered. This is not a virus -- it is a
hoax and the file is a normal part of Windows. Don not delete the file...
Please refrain from propagating virus alerts -- Everyone should take
responsibility for their own system and it should stop there.
Dave wrote:
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steve Weiner
>To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
>Subject: VIRUS
>
>
> >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could
> be in
> >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> >out of your system.
> >
---
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave, Dave.... don't you see???? Virus alerts are fine if you only send
them to people if you *know* you had a virus, and you *know* there's a
chance you sent it to them (always check snopes.com or
urbanlegends.com/ulz/ first)... but any "alert" that says "SEND IT TO
EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK" is recruiting *YOU* to *BE* the virus!
Get it? They don't have to write any code to replicate the message
across the internet clogging everything up, they let *you*, and those
you send it to, do it for them!!
Besides, you didn't just send one message; you actually sent hundreds
(or thousands?), one to each person on this aeroelectric list; if anyone
wants to continue propogating alerts (whether or not they are hoaxes),
at least keep it to personal emails, and off any email lists, please.
-John
P.S.: This is not a slam - merely an attempt to educate.
Dave wrote:
>
>Suckered? Well maybe... I had to reformat my computer a while back after a virus
slipped by my protection. I'd rather inform those that may be affected.
>As far as propagating virus alerts and simply taking care of my system and letting
it end there... I'll make sure you're not notified when a real hazard surfaces.
>If you read the Windows page on this file, it's used by advanced script writers
and has no foul deleting. For those who have, simply reinstall it.
>The first Aero Electric lister who replied that this was indeed a hoax was appreciated,
and forwarded to those that got the alert.
>Steve, you take care of yourself, but I'd still appreciate any alerts from others.
>Now, do you really want to know how I'd like to respond to your slam, or should
we get back to wiring?
>Dave
>
>----- Original Message -----
> From: Canyon
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fw: VIRUS
>
>
> Sorry Dave -- you've been suckered. This is not a virus -- it is a
> hoax and the file is a normal part of Windows. Don not delete the file...
>
> Please refrain from propagating virus alerts -- Everyone should take
> responsibility for their own system and it should stop there.
>
> Dave wrote:
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Steve Weiner
> >To: sweiner16(at)comcast.net
> >Subject: VIRUS
> >
> >
> > >Yes, this virus by-passed my Norton Anti-Virus System; so it could
> > be in
> > >your address book as well. Simply follow the directions below to get it
> > >out of your system.
> > >
> ---
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
Dave wrote:
>Steve, you take care of yourself, but I'd still appreciate any alerts
>from others.
>Now, do you really want to know how I'd like to respond to your slam,
>or should we get back to wiring?
---
Wiring is a fine topic for this list -- sending virus alerts that are
not real to a large mailing list is anything but good netiquette
whether you think so or not. As you can see it just creates a huge
response from people who would like to help you understand the nature
of these virus alert posts.
And if the virus is real, I don't know anyone knowledgeable about the
problem who does not use a good antivirus package -- they're free or
cheap and very good at handling these problems.
If I can help you set something up for your own use, by all means let
me know privately and I'll be glad to help out anyway I can. You'd be
surprised probably at just how many times someone receives a virus
alert or a real virus and then immediately sends it to every address
they can find. That action quite often just results in many more
infections, especially on lists that allow scripts and/or
attachments. Real or imagined, just cause lots of bad results.
And I am very pleased that you'll not send more of them to me. Thanks
for your understanding.
Regards,
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Automobile lights |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Mark Steitle
<>
6/19/2003
Hello Mark, I bought my Pilot lights from an Auto Zone store that had a Pilot
catalog. I looked in the catalog and picked out the ones that I wanted and
they ordered them for me. I don't know if Pilot will sell direct, but you can
find their lights on some other internet automobile parts / accessories sellers.
One other factor that went into me rejecting the OEM lights was the fact that
most of them had a unique / proprietory connector on the rear of the sealed
beam lens unit. To get the matching connector one had to go to the automobile
dealer and pay big bucks for the matching connector (often more than the light
itself from the after market store).
Also there was the added weight of the connector. I suppose one could just
solder to the tabs or what ever is on the back of the glass blob, but I went
with the aftermarket driving lights.
Are you having any problems coming up with a mounting scheme for the #4352?
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pilot Automotive landing lights |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "rwilliams"
<<.....skip.....What are the FAA requirements (if any) for landing lights?
Thanks! Bob Williams >>
6/19/2003
Hello Bob, FAR Sec 91.205 "Powered civil aircraft with standard category US
airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements." will be
made applicable to an ABEA (Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft) by wording in
the Operating Limitations for that aircraft.
Paragraph (c) of this Section is "Visual flight rules (night)". Sub
paragraph (c) (4) says "If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing
light."
Since one cannot operate an ABEA for hire there would be no regulatory
requirement for an ABEA to have a landing light.
If one wanted to know what the requirements are for landing light performance
in a type certificated aircraft one would look in Part 23.1383. After you
have done that you can explain to the rest of us what halation is. Thanks.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
>
>Are you having any problems coming up with a mounting scheme for the #4352?
>
>'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
OC,
I've given it some thought, but no firm solutions yet. (Working on FWF at
present.) The 4352 has two "half-moon" shaped bosses on each end of the
bulb that should work pretty good for an up/down adjustment. And with a
little thought it should be possible to make these adjustable fore/aft for
right/left adjustment.
How did you mount the PL-1068 bulbs? Or do they come with a mounting
bracket? (any pics?)
Mark S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MikeM <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
Ron Hopkins"
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
> From: RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com
> Bob, I have a Microair radio which has worked perfectly during taxi tests of
> my RV-8A, but recently on my first flight, although my ground crew had heard
> me perfectly when I taxiied out to the runway, once I was in the air, they
> heard nothing but static when I transmitted.
>
> I have since tracked the noise down to my turn coordinator. When the turn
> coordinator is not running, transmissions are clear. When it is, i'm unreadable.
> Does the turn coordinator require a shielded power supply wire?
>
> Walt Shipley
Walt,
Turn coordinators generate brush hash (arcing) when running.
The current being drawn by the turn coordinator is chopped by
the carbon brushes riding on a segmented copper commutator.
The current pulsations produce audible hash, which can get into
your mic or headphone audio... This problem is a good object
lesson to those who are in the process of wiring an aircraft
from scratch.
My 35 year old Cessna has an electrolytic bypass capacitor
dangling from the leads going into the turn coordinator
connector, placed there by the factory. The capacitor is 100uF
at 25V. I'm sure the Cessna boys added this capacitor as an
afterthought to cure your problem... It works by smoothing the
current flow into the turn coordinator, but it is a bandaid, and
would not have been needed if Cessna had used proper grounding
techniques and had understood the concept of "single point
ground" when they wired in the radios...
The root problem is likely how you did your grounds.
The current flows to the turn coordinator from the positive post
of the battery, flows along various distribution busses, and
finally arrives at the + input of the turn coordinator. Current
flows through the turn coordinator windings, and flows out of
the minus pin at the rear of the turn coordinator, and then has
to flow back to the negative post of the battery. The big
question is what path does the "ground return" current take?,
and is this path shared by any of your audio wiring?
In aluminum monocoque aircraft, the fuselage structure is
usually used as the "return ground" for everything in the
airplane, including the biggest noise sources: alternator,
strobes, electric gyros, engine instruments, transponder, and
magnetos.
The audio devices: radios, intercom, entertainment system must
also be connected to "ground", and how these low-level audio
devices will be effected by the "noise sources" is dependant on
what path their "grounds" take in getting to the battery
negative post!!!!
For example, the minus lead of your turn coordinator is likely
grounded to the airframe a few inches away from where it is
mounted in the panel, and the turn coordinator current flows
along the airframe seeking to get back to the battery minus
post.
The airframe has a finite, albeit small resistance. The "noise
sources" I mentioned above (turn coordinator, alternator,
strobes, etc) all draw or produce amps of current which pulse
at frequencies which can be heard (50-5000 Hz). If the audio
devices are also "grounded" to the airfame at various locations,
then the voltage drops along the airframe structure couple into
the audio circuits. This is called "common mode" coupling, and
can be dealt with by using the concept called "single point
ground".
In order to prevent contamination of the audio ( mic and
headphone) by the "noise sources", it is necessary to isolate
(from airframe) all of the grounds from the various comm radios,
the intercom, the mic and headphone jacks, the cabin
loudspeaker, the entertainment system, alarm tone generators,
etc. You have to route all of these ground wires and connect
them to a "single ground lug". You also have to "isolate" all of
the mic and headphone jacks by using non-conductive shoulder
washers on the sleeve of the jacks to prevent the sleeve from
touching the airframe whereever the jacks are installed.
Ideally, none of the radios, jacks, etc would touch the
airframe. There would be no path to ground except at the "single
point ground lug". However, in practice the radios/intercoms/
have internal connections which tie the "Power ground pin" to
the sheet metal enclosure that surrounds the radio, as well at
to the various audio grounds, usually labelled with names like
"mic low", "audio ground", "audio common", etc. Just by sliding
the radio into its tray, it connects elecrtrically to the
panel where the trays are mounted in the "radio stack".
The best you can do under these circumstances is to make the
panel where the radios are mounted be the local "single-point
ground" point for all of the audio devices. This works fine for
all of the audio devices which are mounted in the panel, but
what to do with audio devices which are not. This means that the
power grounds from the various radios run from their rear panel
connector to a ground lug on the rear of the insturment panel.
For example, when I was getting the "factory-installed"
alternator whine out of my Cessna, I had to "unground" the
overhead cabin speaker by removing the 2" wire which formerly
went from one of the speaker terminals to a speaker mounting
screw. I replaced the 2" wire with a 5' wire which ran down the
door post to the "single point ground" under the instrument
panel. This step cured hearing the alternator whine in the
speaker.
Since you are stuck using the instrument panel as the "single
point ground field" for all of the radios and audio sources, it
is not a good idea to "ground" any of the high noise sources to
the panel; rather these should be grounded closer to the
battery's negative post. If your turn coordinator is grounded
near your radio, you could lengthen the minus lead and run it to
where your battery ground strap.
So, here are the steps I would go through to cure your problem:
Do them one at a time until you cure the problem.
1. Bypass the leads to the TC with a capacitor (quick fix, if it
works)
2. Unground the TC, and run a longer ground wire from the TC all
the way to battery negative post.
3. Float the mic/headphone jacks using plastic bushings, and add
a ground wire from the jack sleeves to the same point where the
radio is now grounded.
4. Reconnect all of the audio/radio device grounds from
whereever they are now to a single ground lug attached to the
panel.
Mike Mladejovsky, PhDEE
Skylane '1MM
Pacer '00Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hebeard2(at)aol.com |
The Teddy Bear virus is a hoax. goto:
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
You also might want to consider this product made by Hella:
http://www.hellausa.com/optilux/productpages/model1500.html
I "auditioned" several units from Pilot et al including the one with the
lenses (stay away from these unless you want to melt your fairing!) and
these little suckers really threw a flame- pretty much a "spot" type
light but with one in each of my sheared style wingtips, should work
fairly well. (one low, one high, wig-wag on both) They will also accept
100w bulbs if ya want to test the envelope! 8-) I got 'em at Autozone
but they wouldn't come up in their online catalog- about $35 bux...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
BAKEROCB(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Mark Steitle
>
>
> < is
> only about 1-3/4 tall and about 5-1/2" wide. I have been going through the
> same dilemma as you and I went and bought a #4352 type recently and it is a
> very small, rectangular shaped sealed halogen unit. With that said, you
> got my interest with the dual beamed Pilot unit. Price is quite a bit more
> than the 4352 ($24.99 @ Auto Zone), but it seems worth it. Can you buy
> those locally, or do you have to order them from Pilot? Mark S. >>
>
> 6/19/2003
>
> Hello Mark, I bought my Pilot lights from an Auto Zone store that had a Pilot
> catalog. I looked in the catalog and picked out the ones that I wanted and
> they ordered them for me. I don't know if Pilot will sell direct, but you can
> find their lights on some other internet automobile parts / accessories sellers.
>
> One other factor that went into me rejecting the OEM lights was the fact that
> most of them had a unique / proprietory connector on the rear of the sealed
> beam lens unit. To get the matching connector one had to go to the automobile
> dealer and pay big bucks for the matching connector (often more than the light
> itself from the after market store).
>
> Also there was the added weight of the connector. I suppose one could just
> solder to the tabs or what ever is on the back of the glass blob, but I went
> with the aftermarket driving lights.
>
> Are you having any problems coming up with a mounting scheme for the #4352?
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Automotive landing lights |
>Your comment on the "invisibility" of HID lamps in bright daylight was
>very interesting and something I never would have thought of.
>I am building a Zenith CH801 STOL aircraft and was thinking of using HID
>lamps as taxi/landing lights. Would it be advantageous to put a light
>yellow filter of some sort over the lens to "warm up" the color
>temperature a bit so that the output would be readily visible in daylight?
I suppose one could do that. Frankly, given the life of modern
halogen automotive lamps and their very low cost combined with
the way we use/need lighting, I think they're an excellent
value. I can't see putting hundreds of dollars into a landing
light system that gets used perhaps an hour a year.
I'd rather put that money into another GPS or a second commm
or something much more useful.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom..." <tsled(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Automobile lights |
You can find all different styles on E-bay.
Tom...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
<| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
Since these light have been around for over 10 years I believe, a Junk yard
should have the connectors.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <BAKEROCB(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Automobile lights
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Mark Steitle
>
>
> < is
> only about 1-3/4 tall and about 5-1/2" wide. I have been going through
the
> same dilemma as you and I went and bought a #4352 type recently and it is
a
> very small, rectangular shaped sealed halogen unit. With that said, you
> got my interest with the dual beamed Pilot unit. Price is quite a bit
more
> than the 4352 ($24.99 @ Auto Zone), but it seems worth it. Can you buy
> those locally, or do you have to order them from Pilot? Mark S. >>
>
> 6/19/2003
>
> Hello Mark, I bought my Pilot lights from an Auto Zone store that had a
Pilot
> catalog. I looked in the catalog and picked out the ones that I wanted and
> they ordered them for me. I don't know if Pilot will sell direct, but you
can
> find their lights on some other internet automobile parts / accessories
sellers.
>
> One other factor that went into me rejecting the OEM lights was the fact
that
> most of them had a unique / proprietory connector on the rear of the
sealed
> beam lens unit. To get the matching connector one had to go to the
automobile
> dealer and pay big bucks for the matching connector (often more than the
light
> itself from the after market store).
>
> Also there was the added weight of the connector. I suppose one could just
> solder to the tabs or what ever is on the back of the glass blob, but I
went
> with the aftermarket driving lights.
>
> Are you having any problems coming up with a mounting scheme for the
#4352?
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Connectors for 4352 lamps |
>
>Since these light have been around for over 10 years I believe, a Junk yard
>should have the connectors.
>
>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
good point . . . one of the cars that used this lamp was
a 96 Olds Cutlass . . . there were some others but I don't
recall them. Further, the connector is common to many single
filament lamps so finding a mate shouldn't be difficult
or expensive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Automobile lights |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: Mark Steitle
<<....skip.....How did you mount the PL-1068 bulbs? Or do they come with a
mounting bracket? (any pics?)Mark S.>>
6/20/2003
Hello Mark, Yes. The PL-1068 light units are a glass lens front clamped into
a stamped metal shell that accepts removable bulbs from the back. They come
with separate metal mounting brackets.
I did not use their brackets, but instead made up some brackets out of
aluminum angle both for weight savings and suitability purposes. A minor "gotcha"
--
the short bolts that thread through the brackets into the metal shell have
metric threads and metric hex head sizes.
I will take some pictures today and by very good fortune I am near the end of
the film roll (normally it takes me months and months to finish a roll). If
you will provide me a snail mail address by direct email I will mail you some
copies (I have no electronic picture capability) as soon as they are developed.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Connectors for 4352 lamps |
93 through 97 Camaros
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Connectors for 4352 lamps
>
>Since these light have been around for over 10 years I believe, a Junk yard
>should have the connectors.
>
>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
good point . . . one of the cars that used this lamp was
a 96 Olds Cutlass . . . there were some others but I don't
recall them. Further, the connector is common to many single
filament lamps so finding a mate shouldn't be difficult
or expensive.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rwilliams" <rwilliams(at)C1ama.net> |
Mike:
I learned a great deal from your post. But usually when I learn something,
it raises more questions.
From what you wrote, I surmise that when wiring a composite aircraft, it
would be better to have two big ground leads coming off the battery, one to
electronics and the other to mechanicals (incl. lights?)-correct? Would it
also be a good idea to run these through a diode so that they could not
backfeed?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Automotive lights |
Hi OC,
I'm using automotive lights of a sort too. They are a "modified" 4700
series ( same as used in 90's G.M. 4 light Camero's and P/U's). The
difference is these are similar to the ones you describe from pilot
except they are set up for a single capsule. I've mounted mine in both
wings using most of a Duckworks kit.
Haven't flown them yet but with a 100 watt capsule they definitely
throw the light down the road. They also have a wide enough flood
projection to see to the side for taxi. Another nice thing is they are
lighter than OEM and seem to be very well made. Seeing how the capsule
mounts from the rear I secured the housing to my cross rib with Fusor
adhesive (same thing we use to glue door hinges on vehicles).
I got these lights from AutoOptiks. They have a wide range of lights
and capsules from 35 Watts to 150 Watts in all shapes and sizes. You
can even order the housings with "city light" provisions but, why would
you want to unless you plan to taxi in downtown London.
I agree with you that after doing night drops in the garden spot of
Southeast Asia, landing on a improved runway is like driving in a major
city where lights are used so you are seen, not so much to see.
Jim Duckett -7A N708JD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Heinen" <mjheinen(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
I was wondering if a junk yard would be a source for less than $500 HID
lights too?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Lee" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Sharing photos on the Aeroelectric List |
'OC' Baker wrote
"I have no electronic picture capability".
You don't need any these days OC. Just ask for a CD when you get your film
developed. All of the film developing machines are electronic to allow the
operator to adjust the color. At the shop I go to it's only $2 for my wife
to get CDs from her film. She still likes her point-n-shoot. I have heard
of some places charging as much as $5 but it's still a good deal if you
consider postage and packaging and duplicate printing charges to make
additional copies to send to others.
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing lights |
I have a fuzzy magazine photo of a late 1930's twin-engine German bomber with what
appear to be landing lights in the propeller spinners. This looks like a whacky
idea but heck--in aviation there are lots of whacky ideas! Consider-- (assuming
these even WERE lights) that these were unlikely to be sealed beams, just
spun and polished aluminum reflectors with (I'm speculating) axial filament
lamps powered by the same power scheme as the electrically de-iced props, (and
maybe electric blade pitch). Now that wouldn't be so whacky...eh?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"When dealing with the enemy, it helps if he thinks you're a little bit crazy."
--Gen. Curtis LeMay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stig Holm" <stig.holm(at)telia.com> |
| Subject: | Charging of back-up battery |
I'm building an RV6 with an O-320 which I have decided to equip with dual electronic
ignition (Lightspeed). For redundancy I=B4m installing a backup battery
which is normally off-line (both systems fed by the main electric system) but
continously charged from the main system through a diode (Aeroelectric). This
is per the plans as suggested by mr. Klaus Savier.
The main system battery is a Odyssey which means that voltage of the main system
should be around 14.2 volts. The back-up battery should normally have about
13.8 volts which also is what it will get because of the .3 - .4 volts drop over
the diode.
My problem is that the backup battery (sealed 2.2 Ah lead-acid battery normally
found as back-up battery in alarm systems) has a max charging current of .66
amps and if the voltage of this battery for some reason has dropped substancially
below 13.8 volts, the charging current from the main system will easily damage
the backup battery. I will therefore need some sort of charging limiter
to maximize the charging current to .66 amps.
How do I accomplish this?
Regards
Stig Holm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
Bob, thanks for this useful observation. Saves me money, and directs me to a system
that could use the wig-wag system. The little MR-11 or even MR-16 lamps
are cheap, bright, available with a glass cover in some models, and available
surplus, so you can experiment cheaply. It is easy to fabricate a holder out
of sheet aluminum.
here is a source http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category320150&typestore They have sockets in the same catalog.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging of back-up battery |
Stig Holm wrote:
>
>I'm building an RV6 with an O-320 which I have decided to equip with dual electronic
ignition (Lightspeed). For redundancy I=B4m installing a backup battery
which is normally off-line (both systems fed by the main electric system) but
continously charged from the main system through a diode (Aeroelectric). This
is per the plans as suggested by mr. Klaus Savier.
>
>The main system battery is a Odyssey which means that voltage of the main system
should be around 14.2 volts. The back-up battery should normally have about
13.8 volts which also is what it will get because of the .3 - .4 volts drop over
the diode.
>
>My problem is that the backup battery (sealed 2.2 Ah lead-acid battery normally
found as back-up battery in alarm systems) has a max charging current of .66
amps and if the voltage of this battery for some reason has dropped substancially
below 13.8 volts, the charging current from the main system will easily
damage the backup battery. I will therefore need some sort of charging limiter
to maximize the charging current to .66 amps.
>How do I accomplish this?
> Regards
>Stig Holm
>
If you are handy with a soldering iron, you might look at
http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/1318.pdf
Scroll about 2/3 of the way down to figure 27.
Lots of variations on this type of device are available; this was the
1st one I hit by typing 'constant current regulator' into Google.
Current regulators can even be built using 3-terminal voltage regulators
(~$1 each) if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.
A plug-N-play device is likely to be rather expensive, but rolling your
own shouldn't be more than $20 worst case.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Relay for Crowbar protection |
Hi Bob,
I am looking for a recommendation for a relay. I have a Rotax 912S which has a
permanent magnet alternator with a (claimed) peak output of 25 amps.
To use your OVP module I will need a relay, will the S704-1 do the job or will
it be a bit small? Are permanent magnet alternator likely to generate over voltage
situations?. The reason I ask is that the introduction of a relay will
be an additional failure point.
Thanks, Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging of back-up battery |
>
>I'm building an RV6 with an O-320 which I have decided to equip with dual
>electronic ignition (Lightspeed). For redundancy I=B4m installing a backup
>battery which is normally off-line (both systems fed by the main electric
>system) but continously charged from the main system through a diode
>(Aeroelectric). This is per the plans as suggested by mr. Klaus Savier.
>
>The main system battery is a Odyssey which means that voltage of the main
>system should be around 14.2 volts. The back-up battery should normally
>have about 13.8 volts which also is what it will get because of the .3 -
>.4 volts drop over the diode.
>
>My problem is that the backup battery (sealed 2.2 Ah lead-acid battery
>normally found as back-up battery in alarm systems) has a max charging
>current of .66 amps and if the voltage of this battery for some reason has
>dropped substancially below 13.8 volts, the charging current from the main
>system will easily damage the backup battery. I will therefore need some
>sort of charging limiter to maximize the charging current to .66 amps.
>How do I accomplish this?
> Regards
>Stig Holm
What kind of batteries are you installing in your airplane?
The probability of a sustained charging current above .66A
for a small, backup battery is low. If it's an RG battery
totally unloaded while the airplane is parked, frequency
and duration of charging events that exceed .66A are small
and short.
I prefer a "hard" connection as opposed to diodes . . .
If you have active notification of low voltage, there's
no reason you can't simply parallel a standby battery
with the main battery to provide redundant power sources
as described in appendix A of the 'Connection
downloadable at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
and described in Figure 17-6 of
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
If you're considering a main battery like those
installed in most OBAM aircraft (24 a.h. flooded)
then you might reconsider a pair of 17 a.h. RG
batteries wired like figure 17-6, connected in parallel
for all normal operations but with provisions for
isolating the two batteries during alternator-out
operations. You can even automate this functionality
with an Aux Battery Management system like that
described at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
or offered assembled and tested at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.html
and wired per instructions which you can peek at
by downloading
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
When you have two, relatively robust batteries, you can
use BOTH for cranking and rotate the main battery into
the aux slot every annual for replacment of the main battery.
This combination of batteries and battery maintenance philosophy
combined with a well proven alternator like the B&C L-series
or any other NiponDenso product will offer system reliability
that far exceeds anything flying in certified aircraft today.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging of back-up battery |
Stig Holm wrote:
My problem is that the backup battery (sealed 2.2 Ah lead-acid battery normally
found as back-up battery in alarm systems) has a max charging current of .66
amps and if the voltage of this battery for some reason has dropped substancially
below 13.8 volts, the charging current from the main system will easily damage
the backup battery. I will therefore need some sort of charging limiter
to maximize the charging current to .66 amps.
Stig: if your little battery drops its voltage, it will quickly rise to 13.8 volts
with just a small percent of recharge. To limit the initial surge, a series
resistor should work well. Your minimum voltage for a dead battery is 10
volts, and you will have a maximum of 13.5 with a charge voltage of 14.2 dropped
0.7 in the series silicon diode. RE/I, and if you limit the max current to
0.66 amps, R(13.5-10)/0.667 ohms. However, if it were my plane, I would limit
the max current to something larger, such as the "1/2 hour rate" of 4.4 amps
for a 2.2 amp-hour battery. R0.8 ohms for this. This max current flows only
briefly as the battery voltage will rise to near 13.8 volts. I would worry that
you might not fully recharge this battery due to limited voltage. A Schottky
diode with only 0.3 to 0.4 voltage drop might be better.
You will need to fuse this charge circuit. The 0.8 ohm resistor worst case disipates
15.5 watts, but this might be for only 3 seconds. A 10 watt resistor
should do fine.
See http://www.allelectronics.com/matrix/Power_Resistors.html for a selection with pictures. The 0.75 ohm 10 watt "sand" resistor at 3 for a dollar should do.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Automobile lights |
I agree. The light you have referenced is a 25 degree spot. If you
want something tighter (12 degrees) Mcmaster-Carr sells a selection of
wattages and angles for $3.33 each. Be aware that the glass covers
reduce the total light output.
Dick Tasker
James Foerster wrote:
>
> at RAC a couple of years ago. It was the Lopresti kit I believe.
> Really nice for night ops . . . however . . . because its color
> temperature is so much higher that incandescent lamps, it's
> practically invisible against daylight blue sky. Not nearly
> so practical for daytime collision avoidance as lamps with
> filaments in them.>
>
>Bob, thanks for this useful observation. Saves me money, and directs me to a
system that could use the wig-wag system. The little MR-11 or even MR-16 lamps
are cheap, bright, available with a glass cover in some models, and available
surplus, so you can experiment cheaply. It is easy to fabricate a holder out
of sheet aluminum.
>
>here is a source http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category320150&typestore They have sockets in the same catalog.
>
>Jim Foerster
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Relay for Crowbar protection |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am looking for a recommendation for a relay. I have a Rotax 912S which
>has a permanent magnet alternator with a (claimed) peak output of 25 amps.
>
>To use your OVP module I will need a relay, will the S704-1 do the job or
>will it be a bit small? Are permanent magnet alternator likely to
>generate over voltage situations?. The reason I ask is that the
>introduction of a relay will be an additional failure point.
It will be fine. Yes, the relay is an increase in parts count
and a reduction in system reliability. Do you plan to carry and
maintain enough battery to use up fuel aboard battery only?
I think system reliability reduction is a small price to pay
since you're trading a failure that cooks things for a failure
that is passive. There are numerous OTHER things that can
take the alternator off line besides failure of the ov protection
system . . . one would do well to be tolerant of all those failures
too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging of back-up battery |
>
>If you are handy with a soldering iron, you might look at
>
>http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/1318.pdf
>
>Scroll about 2/3 of the way down to figure 27.
>
>Lots of variations on this type of device are available; this was the
>1st one I hit by typing 'constant current regulator' into Google.
>Current regulators can even be built using 3-terminal voltage regulators
>(~$1 each) if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.
>
>A plug-N-play device is likely to be rather expensive, but rolling your
>own shouldn't be more than $20 worst case.
. . . check out a characteristic of this device on page
3-12. It's delta-V, input-output, second one up from bottom
of chart. This tells us that the absolute minimum headroom
(read EXCESS voltage) for this device to operate is on the
order of 2.5 volts. To use this device as an active constant-
current source to charge a battery at 13.8 would require a source
voltage of 16.3 or better.
The people who make little batteries will often put
specifications or limits on them intended to improve battery
life. If small RG batteries are used in a BACKUP (read
"shucks aunt Martha, the alternator and main battery are
BOTH crapped . . . now what do I do?") they should be
renewed every year. Small RG batteries are not known for long
service life. I use them in the recovery parachute systems
on Hawker Horizon and Premier . . . they get LOAD tested
every preflight and the flight does not launch without
both batteries testing good. I've had some make it for a
year and some only lasted a few months. The batteries
in the parachute system are hard-connected to ship's
bus via relay contact driven by (you guessed it) a
28v ABMM module.
This is one reason why I favor the dual, 17 a.h. battery
installation with yearly swapout over incorporating
any kind of dinky "standby" battery. If you're REALLY
depending on that battery to bail you out of a bad
situation it is entitled to extra-ordinary maintenance
and operating attention. Better yet, design your system
with more attention to failure tolerance and improved
robustness. For me, robustness comes from having an
aux battery that served it's first year of duty as
the main battery and will be outta here after no
more than 24 months of service.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Mladejovsky <mladejov(at)ced.utah.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 06/20/03 |
> From: "rwilliams" <rwilliams(at)C1ama.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Noise
> >From what you wrote, I surmise that when wiring a composite aircraft, it
> would be better to have two big ground leads coming off the battery, one to
> electronics and the other to mechanicals (incl. lights?)-correct?
Actually, I would have three: the engine group (starter motor,
alternator, and engine controls, fuel pump, etc; the "noisy" group,
which would have fuel guages, other engine instruments, strobes,
gyros, trim servos, landing gear/flap motors, etc; and finally the
"quiet" group, which is all the avionics, intercom, entertainment,
audio panel...
> Would it
> also be a good idea to run these through a diode so that they could not
> backfeed?
No, you want the lowest possible ground drops in the respective
ground; You just dont want the noisy currents flowing along along the
same ground wiring as used by the audio devices...
And to the person who suggested that current flows from the negative
pole of a battery to the positive pole I was talking about current,
not electrons...
Mike M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
McMasterCarr.com on catalog page 595 has some great halogen lamps. Allelectronics.com
also has lamps and sockets for cheap.
A few things regarding lighting--
I doubt that the LoPresti light color had as much to do with its visibility as
its reflector design. Aviation Consumer said it had a "hot spot" which would indicate
a narrow angle. I've seen pictures of this and it looks like a spotlight,
so off-angle it would be hard to see. (If I had one I might take a ball-peen
hammer to the reflector.) True, a bluer beam would make the light less visible
against a blue sky, but visibility is usually not a blue-sky issue anyway.
The maximum sensitivity to light is yellow-green (~555 nanometers...the light
under the jungle canopy), but the best seeing is with all frequencies present
in the ratios of noon sunlight (noon on the African Savannah)--more like HID
than tungsten or halogens.
Any filament landing light will eventually fatigue its filament and fail. The advantage
of halogens is their comparatively rugged filament. HID lamps have no
filament so they have enormous lifetimes. Likewise LEDs*
Any kind or color of lighting will encounter some condition where it makes the
aircraft less visible rather than more. Wig-Wag lighting makes a whole lot of
sense because when the sun blinks like that we will have much bigger problems.
The glass cover on the halogen lamps is well worth a small 5% reduction in light
output, since it keeps the lamp reflector clean and prevents over-cooling of
the halogen bulb that would shorten its life.
I still remember the look of despair on my Flying School owner's face when told
one of her Cessna 150's had a blown landing or taxi light. Her profits for the
day had just evaporated.
*LED landing lights sooner than you think! We can calculate when using Moore's
Law. Since halogens and LED have similar (Lumen/Watt) efficiencies, we only need
to look at total LED watts/buck and look at its Moore's Law growth curve. Right
now a white 30 degree LED, 5 VDC, 20 mA, 5 cp goes for about a buck. So that's
1 buck per 0.1 watt. Or $10/Watt. So a 100W LED landing light would cost
you $1000 today; $500 in 18 months; $250 in 36 months; $125 in 54 months; $62.50
(early adopter prices) in 72 months; $31.25 (a really saleable price) in
90 months. So for Christmas 2010 or before, your LED landing light will be ready
to attach to your airplane.
Fly safely, buy my Wig-Wag (D) 'Witch
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest - Ground structures |
>
>
> > From: "rwilliams" <rwilliams(at)C1ama.net>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio Noise
>
> > >From what you wrote, I surmise that when wiring a composite aircraft, it
> > would be better to have two big ground leads coming off the battery, one to
> > electronics and the other to mechanicals (incl. lights?)-correct?
>
>Actually, I would have three: the engine group (starter motor,
>alternator, and engine controls, fuel pump, etc; the "noisy" group,
>which would have fuel guages, other engine instruments, strobes,
>gyros, trim servos, landing gear/flap motors, etc; and finally the
>"quiet" group, which is all the avionics, intercom, entertainment,
>audio panel...
>
> > Would it
> > also be a good idea to run these through a diode so that they could not
> > backfeed?
>
>No, you want the lowest possible ground drops in the respective
>ground; You just dont want the noisy currents flowing along along the
>same ground wiring as used by the audio devices...
>
>And to the person who suggested that current flows from the negative
>pole of a battery to the positive pole I was talking about current,
>not electrons...
May I suggest that pictures will convey meaning with greater
clarity than words when describing system architectures? Would
you care to review the grounding structures depicted in figure
Z-15 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
and explain how these might be improved and/or where they
are in error?
I've published a correction drawing to the first sheet
of Z-15 at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/z15ak.pdf
Bob . . .
>Mike M
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Mike:
>
>I learned a great deal from your post. But usually when I learn something,
>it raises more questions.
>
> From what you wrote, I surmise that when wiring a composite aircraft, it
>would be better to have two big ground leads coming off the battery, one to
>electronics and the other to mechanicals (incl. lights?)-correct? Would it
>also be a good idea to run these through a diode so that they could not
>backfeed?
Have you reviewed the power distribution diagrams offered
in Appendix Z of the 'Connection?
They can be downloaded from
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
I might make special note of a correction to the ground
structures published as a separate .pdf at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/z15ak.pdf
What kind of airplane are you putting together and
what kind of electrical system are you considering?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Bob,
The failure tolerant philosophy of your designs make fantastic sense to me.
Your publications have been a huge help - Thanks for all of your help! I intend
to purchaseseveral supplies from your web site. I have a few specific questions
at the moment.
I am building a Kitfox with a Lycoming 0-235 at least single electronic
ignition. Iplan to use miniature toggle
swithches throughout my panel - utilizing a relay wherever thecurrent exceeds 4
amps.
Question #1) Do you have a strong recommendation one way or the other for using
dual electronic ignition? Cost is an issue, but I don't mind spending if I will
get good value.
Question #2) I am still in the process of adopting fully understanding your
Z-11 wiring diagram. The relatively heavy engine requires the battery be in the
tail of the aircraft for balance. I am assuming the main battery bus must mount
somewhere near the panel. This prevents the 16 AWG wire from the battery
contactor to the Main Battery Bus from being the recommended 6" maximum length.
I don't understand the reason for the 6" maximum length. Could you please
explain and/or list alternate solutions?
Thanks for any insight,
Grant Krueger
SLO, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10611 Krueger |
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Grant Krueger (Tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 at 12:08:42
>
>Saturday, June 21, 2003
>
>Grant Krueger
>
>,
>Email: Tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com
>Comments/Questions: Hello Bob,
>
>The failure tolerant philosophy of your designs make fantastic sense to
>me. Your publications have been a huge help - Thanks for all of your
>help! I intend to several supplies from your web site. I will soon be
>trying to communicate via the aero electric list that Matt Dralle
>maintains but wanted to give this a try too. I have a few specific
>questions at the moment.
Okay
>I am building a Kitfox with a Lycoming 0-235 & at least single electronic
>ignition. Primarily for Aesthetic reasons I want to use miniature toggle
>swithches throughout my panel.
Saw a Q200 at a flyin last fall using CK miniature toggle
switches for everything including his 55W landing light.
The owner reported good service from these switches having
put over 100 hours on the airplane with no problems.
>Question #1) Do you have a strong recommendation one way or the other for
>using dual electronic ignition? Cost is an issue, but I don't mind
>spending if I will get good value.
95% of your performance improvement will come with putting on
the first electronic ignition. If your engine comes with two
mags, I'd replace one mag with electronic. When first mag
craps, put the second mag back on the engine. When you've
run all your money's worth from both mags, put the second
electronic ignition on.
>Question #2) I am still in the process of adopting & fully understanding
>your Z-11 wiring diagram. The relatively heavy engine requires the
>battery be in the tail of the aircraft for balance. I am assuming the
>main battery bus must mount somewhere near the panel. This prevents the
>16 AWG wire from the battery contactor to the Main Battery Bus from being
>the recommended 6" maximum length. I don't understand the reason for the
>6" maximum length. Could you please explain and/or list alternate solutions?
The general rule of thumb for smaller gage (10 AWG and smaller)
feeders that are sourced by the battery should either get
some form of protection (breaker, fuse, etc) unless they
can be kept short. FAA used to allow small electro-whizies
to be attached to the bus without separate protection if the
at risk wire was kept short . . . 6" or less. Battery
busses go next to battery that feeds them. If your battery
is in tail, battery bus for that battery is there right
beside it.
Bob. . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10613 Graham |
> Bob,
>
> I broke one of the ears of the mounting flange of the 15 pin molex?
> edge connector on the back of one of my mounting trays for a Michel MX-11
> radio. The radio is supposedly a direct replacement for one of the Narco
> radios.
>
> Can you get the connector, crimp pins, extraction tools etc. for this
> connector? I would like to replace it with a new one and new pins at the
> same time. Thanks.
I presume you're talking about the Molex connectors shown on
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=350.pdf
If so, you can order connectors, pins and tools
from the number at the bottom of the page. If a
different style of connector, I'll have to see
a picture of it to try and indentify it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am working with your wiring diagram Z-11.
>I have a Nissan D internally regulated alt. I'm in the midst of building
>the various circuits
>I Have just begun the master switch circuit and I'm installing the OV
>module with yellow and black wires as per the drawing included with the OVM.
>
>On Z-11 in the middle of the page there is a small drawing of the rear
>view of switch. It is titled "Terminal locations for S700-2-XX series
>switches". under this it says (note 15)
>
>It seems that all the switch wire locations on all the diagrams then use a
>different numbering pattern?
>Obviously I am missing something.
>
>stumped,
Jim, the drawings in the book and on the website were
crafted at various times over the years and terminal
numbering generally followed the conventions set forth
in the Microswitch catalog until we began to offer
Carling switches from our website catalog. Seems they
have an alternative numbering scheme as described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Carling_Micro/Carling_Micro.pdf
Some day we'll probably get all the drawings updated
to the Carling convention but in the mean time, be
aware that there are two schemes depending on where
you get your switches.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10610 Krueger |
> Bob,
>
>I would just like to get your opinion of split alt/bat master
>switches. Split switches have always been the norm, but I don't see why
>you couldn't use a DPDT switch to engage the master relay and send power
>to the alt field. Kill two birds with one stone, right? In the event you
>needed to reset the alt, could you not pull and then reset the alt field
>circuit breaker? That would be like reseting a split switch. A little
>more effort, I agree, but how often would you even need to do that? Would
>you maybe use this setup on any electrical system? Only dual alt/bat
>setups? Panel space is becoming more and more difficult to come by these
>days. On more modern panels with lit rocker switches, this idea would
>sure be nice to keep all of the switches the same. Thanks for your input,
There is no compelling reason or advantage for having independent
control of alternator and battery for normal operations. Indeed,
until a few years ago, our power distribution diagrams showed
a two pole, OFF-ON switch for both battery and alternator. Our
designs assume you'll have crowbar ov protection that needs
a breaker. Make it a pullable breaker and you have a means
by which a misbehaving alternator can be shut down in flight
or disabled for extend ground operations battery-only.
In recent years, we located and now offer progressive
transfer switches that permit a single switch to mimic
split-rocker operations. Our power distribution diagrams
illustrate this feature and call out the 2-10 series
switch. However, if it were my airplane, I'd use a
2-3 switch and mount the alternator field
breaker right next to it.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Wiring Microair Transponder to aeroKing ACK 30 Encoder |
Hi bob and all.
I was wondering if you had a good diagram for connection the two.
Also is it against the convention to use a rewired pparallelcable and
just change the termination plug
Thanks in advance
Ian Scott
J400 taxied last week.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Scott" <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | RE: Wiring Microair Transponder to aeroKing ACK 30 |
Encoder
Sorry it is a AK350
And a Microair 2000 transponder
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Scott [mailto:jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au]
Subject: Wiring Microair Transponder to aeroKing ACK 30 Encoder
Hi bob and all.
I was wondering if you had a good diagram for connection the two.
Also is it against the convention to use a rewired pparallelcable and
just change the termination plug
Thanks in advance
Ian Scott
J400 taxied last week.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wiring Microair Transponder to |
aeroKing ACK 30 Encoder
>
>
>Sorry it is a AK350
>
>And a Microair 2000 transponder
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Scott [mailto:jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au]
>To: 'aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com'
>Subject: Wiring Microair Transponder to aeroKing ACK 30 Encoder
Sure goto http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data
and click on T2000-ACK350_Wiring.pdf
>Hi bob and all.
>
>I was wondering if you had a good diagram for connection the two.
>
>Also is it against the convention to use a rewired pparallelcable and
>just change the termination plug
?? if you're asking about using the cable assembly
that comes in the ACK-350 box, I use that cable assembly
when the customer orders the T2000 bundled with the
T2000 and wants me to build the harness. There will
be a connector on one end only and it will fit the
ACK-350. The colors shown on the wiring diagram match
the last harnesses I got with an ACK-350
If you have another harness already built for the
ACK-350 with a plug that mates with another transponder,
I don't see anything wrong with using cutting the
transponder plug off and reusing the harness.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
Don't know if you or anyone on the list may be able to help me with my
problem or not. I have a Terra 760D transceiver. I have always had a
problem with distortion when transmitting. Sometimes so bad folks receiving
can not understand me. At first, I though it might be the high noise level
in the cockpit, so got a better noise supression mic and also uphosteried
the interior to reduce ambient noise. Nothing seemed to solve the problem.
There is no static/distortion when receiving and my side tone does not have
any distortion. I have had the transceiver in three times to have it
checked, but you know how an intermittent problem is - never show up in the
repair shop. Antenna and Coax has been changed as well.
I finally obtained a maintenance manual and noticed that the sidetone is
generated one transistor before the modulation transistor. This leads me to
assume that the audio portion of the circuit is good (at least up to the
side tone generator) and I wonder if an intermittent condition with the
modulation transistor could cause distortion. It does seem worst during hot
weather. If anyone has had a similar problem and discovered the cause, would
appreciate hearing from them.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Spencer" <djs(at)54Transmission.com> |
Ed...
Sorry, but I don't have any advice about the technical difficulties.
However, I have dual TXN-960s and am wondering how you got a maintenance
manual? I'd love to have one for my 960s... have the install manual.
David J. Spencer
Super3
djs(at)54Transmission.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Terra 760 D
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Don't know if you or anyone on the list may be able to help me with my
> problem or not. I have a Terra 760D transceiver. I have always had a
> problem with distortion when transmitting. Sometimes so bad folks
receiving
> can not understand me. At first, I though it might be the high noise
level
> in the cockpit, so got a better noise supression mic and also uphosteried
> the interior to reduce ambient noise. Nothing seemed to solve the
problem.
> There is no static/distortion when receiving and my side tone does not
have
> any distortion. I have had the transceiver in three times to have it
> checked, but you know how an intermittent problem is - never show up in
the
> repair shop. Antenna and Coax has been changed as well.
>
> I finally obtained a maintenance manual and noticed that the sidetone is
> generated one transistor before the modulation transistor. This leads me
to
> assume that the audio portion of the circuit is good (at least up to the
> side tone generator) and I wonder if an intermittent condition with the
> modulation transistor could cause distortion. It does seem worst during
hot
> weather. If anyone has had a similar problem and discovered the cause,
would
> appreciate hearing from them.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Wiring a Velocity - Strobe/Ammeter questions |
Bob/Others -
Just finished reading the 'Connection (many thanks) in preparation for designing/wiring my Velocity XL (www.velocityxl.com) and had a couple of quick (OK, mayber they're not quick, but straightforward at least) questions.
First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the Whelen strobe shielding
on composites. What's the best way to attach the AL foil, solder wire to
it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the strake-wing junction,
what kind of connector would you recommend there, another Molex? And finally,
would it be sufficient to put a ring terminal under the mounting screw for the
ground connection at the light fixture, or should I solder the sheild to the
housing, or what?
Second - I'm planning on going all-electric, probably with the Blue Mountain EFIS
and a 20 vac-pad-mounted backup essential load alternator, and was wondering
about placement of the shunt. The Z figure for canards shows it in the battery
ground line to the canard bulkhead, which is were I would like to put it and
measure the current to or from the battery regardless of configuration. The
dual-alt figure shows one shunt for each alternator to measure their individual
currents, with which I'm not postive how I'd tell if the battery were discarging,
and I don't think is relevent if I only use the second alternator in the
event of primary failure. Which setup would you prefer (and why) with my setup?
Thanks.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | sockets for H4351 & H4352 bulbs |
The socket for a H4351 bulb is the same as for a H9006 capsule. The part no.
is S-523 in Standard and 85812 in Help/Motormite.
The socket for a H4352 bulb is the same as for a H9005 capsule. The part no.
is 85813 in Help/Motormite. Standard does not lidt one yet.
Steve
Springfield Auto Parts Co., Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: LEDs
>
>
> | --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger
>
> |
> | Fergus Kyle wrote:
> |
> | > ...but will tolerate an Average current which permits us to
> | > forestall their early intolerance by modulating the time constants.
> |
> |Above referring to pulsing the LEDs with square wave circuitry, to make
> | the appear brighter to the brain. This is obsolete by now, and may give
> | you RF interference. For panel indicators, you can get super brights
> | cheaply now that will put spots on the retina, requiring cutting back
> | the current or buying fewer millicandles. Diffused clear LEDs to me are
> | the most attention getting.> |
> | For area illumination as you described, the realities of viewing angle
> | (i.e., beam width) similarly means multiple very super brights, so
> | adding extra(s) makes up for not having the pulse enhancement.
> | Regards, Fred F.
Fred,
Quite agree and thanks for filling in some more details. I was
trying not to get too complex first off on the grounds that it was just an
alerting message for those not inclined to research. The main thrust was to
bring attention to the great saving in cost, labour, reliability and
electric power etc. I bought before the superbrights arrived so will 'pulse'
but at a discrete freq. - probably as per Weir's article.
I have opted for yellow light and diffuse heads so hope it will
suffice.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | LightSpeed wiring |
Bob & folks,
I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7 (single EI,
single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
installation notes provided with the LSE system.
They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a pullable
breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then wire
directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing busses
in this manner.
Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
- power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is roughly
6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
- no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
- standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
- ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's recommendations in
this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker when
you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do fine. I
have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I could
always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point when
a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise affecting the
LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even when
it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite* to the
negative terminal)?
Thanks,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hey Dan,
Sounds like you have a good setup in mind. I believe that LSE's design
is motivated by airplanes already having a long row of circuit breakers
across the panel. I think having a fuse at the battery bus, and a simple
switch is entirely appropriate - esp since it sounds like you don't have any
other breakers in the plane (barring one for your alternator). I don't
believe
electronic ignition devices are susceptible to nuisance trips, so that
isn't a
consideration.
I don't think you will have any problems with the grounding scheme that
you have described. I believe many airplanes don't have a single point
ground, much less one connected to the negative side of the battery with
fat cable. If installing an LSE box on an airplane without these design
features, running the ground lead from the unit to the negative battery
terminal would be a good way to go.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Bob & folks,
>
> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7 (single
> EI, single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
>
> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> pullable breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a
> pullable 5A breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the
> brain, then wire directly to the negative battery terminal. They
> recommend bypassing busses in this manner.
>
> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
>
> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> roughly 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
>
> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's recommendations
> in this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
> when you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
> fine. I have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I
> guess I could always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really
> see the point when a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
>
> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise affecting
> the LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane,
> even when it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not
> *quite* to the negative terminal)?
>
> Thanks,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Spencer" <djs(at)54Transmission.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Terra 760 D
>
> Ed...
>
> Sorry, but I don't have any advice about the technical difficulties.
>
> However, I have dual TXN-960s and am wondering how you got a maintenance
> manual? I'd love to have one for my 960s... have the install manual.
>
> David J. Spencer
> Super3
> djs(at)54Transmission.com
David, I just went back and checked and the website that has some of the
Terra Maintenance manual apparently they only have the more recent "digital"
systems. I am sorry to say, your receiver is not listed.
Ed Anderson
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RG-142 and RG-400 |
Previously From: "Wayne Sweet" <wsweet(at)attbi.com> Subject: Coaxial cables
Date: Jan 31, 2003
<>
6/23/2003
Hello Wayne, If you are interested in learning a bit more about these two
high performance coaxial cables you can go to the web site below.
<<http://www.thermaxcdt.com/>> and look at the MIL-C-17 coaxial cable.
There may be other companies besides Thermax/CDT that makes these two cables
(Belden lists only RG -142 in their catalog), but Thermax's are the only ones
that I have seen.
The difference between the two is that RG-400 has the multi stranded core and
the RG-142 has the solid core. (Belden says their core is silver coated,
copper covered steel !!) There are people who feel that the multi stranded core
is
a must for aircraft use because it will withstand vibration better.
I am more inclined to use the RG-142 and ensure that the cable is properly
supported, particularly where it enters the back of the avionics rack. The multi
stranded is a bit more flexible than the solid core, but the solid core is
extremely easy to strip (don't nick it) and a delight to insert into the
connector pin or socket and crimp.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
PS: The Belden web site has a lot of general cable information of interest.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
Dan,
That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the battery to
the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss and
then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry about it.
Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating connections,
but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust besides you
have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I might
try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one from
the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
> Bob & folks,
>
> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7 (single
EI,
> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
>
> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
pullable
> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then wire
> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
busses
> in this manner.
>
> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
>
> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
roughly
> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
>
> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's recommendations in
> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker when
> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do fine.
I
> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
could
> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
when
> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
>
> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise affecting the
> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even when
> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite* to the
> negative terminal)?
>
> Thanks,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Audio Isolation Amplifier |
Got to the workbench and fine-tuned some features of the
design last night. I'll publish the data package this
evening after a last check of the data.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Phil,
I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
line. Can someone clear this up for me?
Joel Harding
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
wrote:
>
>
> Dan,
>
> That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> battery to
> the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> and
> then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> about it.
> Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> connections,
> but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> besides you
> have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> might
> try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> from
> the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
>
>
>>
>> Bob & folks,
>>
>> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7
>> (single
> EI,
>> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
>> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
>>
>> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> pullable
>> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
>> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then
>> wire
>> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
> busses
>> in this manner.
>>
>> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
>>
>> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> roughly
>> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
>> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
>> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
>> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
>> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
>>
>> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's
>> recommendations in
>> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
>> when
>> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
>> fine.
> I
>> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
> could
>> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
> when
>> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
>>
>> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise
>> affecting the
>> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even
>> when
>> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite*
>> to the
>> negative terminal)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | recording intercom with a digital voice recorder |
I would like to tie in a digital voice recorder to the intercom for 2
purposes. First to record everything while I am doing my flight
training. Second to be able to play back what ATC just said. I found
an adapter wire in the Aircraft Spruce catalog that you stick between
the intercom and your headset plug that has electronics that
convert the headphone signal down to a mic signal. That's great for
recording. Then they have a CD Player adapter where you also insert the
plug in between the intercom and your headset plug and then plug the
little 1/8" plug into the headphone jack of a CD player or in this case
the voice recorder. But then there are the cell phone adapters. Can
those be connected to a voice recorder some how and record all intercom
traffic? And then play it back through the intercom? Then there is the
issue of mixing stereo and mono plugs. I don't really care if I loose
the option to hear stereo music as long as the signal is still coming
through both ears. Can some one please clear this up and let me know
what the best solution is? I'm also looking for suggestions on MP3
players/voice recorders.
I have also seen some MP3 player/recorders that can record from a line
in signal, would that be a better solution? Has anyone seen or used
these? The only one I know of right now is called a Ripflash. They
have several different models. Their web site is here
http://www.pogoproducts.com/
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | LightSpeed wiring |
Light Speed's instructions say they want us to "route the positive power
lead to a 5A pull-able breaker and then to the battery plus terminal,
bypassing any electrical bus or master solenoid." And "If a toggle switch is
used as an on/off switch, it should be installed next to the breaker." And
also: "Route the negative lead directly to the battery ground terminal (not
airframe ground buss) to avoid ignition noise...."
I don't like the idea of running an unfused always hot line direct from the
battery in the front baggage compartment floor on the right side of my RV-8A
to the ignition toggles on the left side of the panel. I also don't like
the idea of this one of a couple dozen circuits in the airplane going
directly to both terminals of the battery; no battery buss, no ground buss;
directly to the terminal.
My inclination is to run it to a 5A fuse on a battery bus and ground it to a
ground bus.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joel
Harding
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
Phil,
I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
line. Can someone clear this up for me?
Joel Harding
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
wrote:
>
>
> Dan,
>
> That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> battery to
> the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> and
> then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> about it.
> Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> connections,
> but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> besides you
> have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> might
> try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> from
> the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
>
>
>>
>> Bob & folks,
>>
>> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7
>> (single
> EI,
>> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
>> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
>>
>> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> pullable
>> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
>> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then
>> wire
>> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
> busses
>> in this manner.
>>
>> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
>>
>> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> roughly
>> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
>> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
>> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
>> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
>> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
>>
>> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's
>> recommendations in
>> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
>> when
>> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
>> fine.
> I
>> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
> could
>> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
> when
>> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
>>
>> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise
>> affecting the
>> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even
>> when
>> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite*
>> to the
>> negative terminal)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
I vaguely remember seeing their recommended circuit go:
(+) terminal
5A breaker
optional switch
brain box
ground to (-) terminal
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Harding" <cajole76(at)ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
> Phil,
> I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
> also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
> protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
> in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
> point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
> line. Can someone clear this up for me?
>
> Joel Harding
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> > their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> > battery to
> > the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> > and
> > then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> > about it.
> > Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> > connections,
> > but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> > besides you
> > have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> > might
> > try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> > from
> > the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
> >
> > Godspeed,
> >
> > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> > http://www.myrv7.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Bob & folks,
> >>
> >> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7
> >> (single
> > EI,
> >> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
> >> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
> >>
> >> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> > pullable
> >> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
> >> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then
> >> wire
> >> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
> > busses
> >> in this manner.
> >>
> >> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
> >>
> >> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> > roughly
> >> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
> >> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
> >> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
> >> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
> >> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
> >>
> >> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's
> >> recommendations in
> >> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
> >> when
> >> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
> >> fine.
> > I
> >> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
> > could
> >> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
> > when
> >> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
> >>
> >> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise
> >> affecting the
> >> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even
> >> when
> >> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite*
> >> to the
> >> negative terminal)?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> )_( Dan
> >> RV-7 N714D
> >> http://www.rvproject.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
Hello Phil,
as close to the unprotected wire as possible, so if you connect to the
Battery directly, then the
link between the Battery and the fuse should be as short as possible, as
this wire is not protected
best regards
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Harding" <cajole76(at)ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
> Phil,
> I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
> also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
> protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
> in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
> point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
> line. Can someone clear this up for me?
>
> Joel Harding
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> > their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> > battery to
> > the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> > and
> > then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> > about it.
> > Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> > connections,
> > but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> > besides you
> > have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> > might
> > try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> > from
> > the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
> >
> > Godspeed,
> >
> > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> > http://www.myrv7.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Bob & folks,
> >>
> >> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7
> >> (single
> > EI,
> >> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
> >> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
> >>
> >> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> > pullable
> >> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
> >> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then
> >> wire
> >> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
> > busses
> >> in this manner.
> >>
> >> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
> >>
> >> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> > roughly
> >> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
> >> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
> >> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
> >> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
> >> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
> >>
> >> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's
> >> recommendations in
> >> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
> >> when
> >> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
> >> fine.
> > I
> >> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
> > could
> >> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
> > when
> >> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
> >>
> >> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise
> >> affecting the
> >> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even
> >> when
> >> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite*
> >> to the
> >> negative terminal)?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> )_( Dan
> >> RV-7 N714D
> >> http://www.rvproject.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> > _-
> > ======================================================================
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Joel,
Where you put circuit protection is important. The further from
your source of power that you place the breaker or fuse, the longer
the run of wire which is essentially electrically unprotected. The
integrity of that length of wire will be dependent on the mechanical
protection provided by careful installation.
Should vibration cause wire insulation to fail due to chafing in that
unprotected section - especially on a metal airplane - that wire can become
a fire starter/smoke producer. If the wire shorts to ground, the breaker/
fuse won't disconnect the circuit because it won't be carying any current.
On the battery bus, you wouldn't have any way to turn it off. You would
be stuck with having live with the smoke/fire until you decide to land, or
possibly until the offending device burns itself out.
The shorter the electrically unprotected runs, the better, because it is
easier
to provide robust mechanical installation. If you develop a mecanical
failure
in the protected section of the circuit which leads to a shorted power to
ground situation, the electrical circuit protection can do its job.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
> Phil,
> I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
> also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
> protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
> in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
> point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
> line. Can someone clear this up for me?
>
> Joel Harding
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see
>> from their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
>> battery to
>> the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
>> and
>> then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LightSpeed wiring |
| From: | "David" <David(at)ChalmersFamily.com> |
When I installed my Lightspeed Plasma II Plus I decided to ignore the instructions
and wire to the regular power and ground bus. I found that the engine would
turn over really well on the starter but wouldn't start until I released the
start switch. The ignition was not getting enough volts during start. I rewired
it direct to the battery (both power and ground) with a 10A(IIRC) fuse in the
power lead at the battery to protect the wire a 5A fuse in a more accesible
location. Now it starts properly. When you're planning the install consider voltage
drops in both power and ground paths during start.
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Watson [mailto:terry(at)tcwatson.com]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
Light Speed's instructions say they want us to "route the positive power
lead to a 5A pull-able breaker and then to the battery plus terminal,
bypassing any electrical bus or master solenoid." And "If a toggle switch is
used as an on/off switch, it should be installed next to the breaker." And
also: "Route the negative lead directly to the battery ground terminal (not
airframe ground buss) to avoid ignition noise...."
I don't like the idea of running an unfused always hot line direct from the
battery in the front baggage compartment floor on the right side of my RV-8A
to the ignition toggles on the left side of the panel. I also don't like
the idea of this one of a couple dozen circuits in the airplane going
directly to both terminals of the battery; no battery buss, no ground buss;
directly to the terminal.
My inclination is to run it to a 5A fuse on a battery bus and ground it to a
ground bus.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joel
Harding
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
Phil,
I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
line. Can someone clear this up for me?
Joel Harding
On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
wrote:
>
>
> Dan,
>
> That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> battery to
> the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> and
> then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> about it.
> Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> connections,
> but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> besides you
> have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> might
> try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> from
> the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
>
>
>>
>> Bob & folks,
>>
>> I'm installing a single LightSpeed Plasma II ignition in my RV-7
>> (single
> EI,
>> single mag), and I'm considering straying slightly from the wiring
>> installation notes provided with the LSE system.
>>
>> They recommend wiring directly to and from the battery and using a
> pullable
>> breaker. Basically, positive battery terminal direct to a pullable 5A
>> breaker, then an optional on/off toggle switch, then the brain, then
>> wire
>> directly to the negative battery terminal. They recommend bypassing
> busses
>> in this manner.
>>
>> Here's what I would *like* to do instead:
>>
>> - power wired from a 5A fuse on the always-hot battery bus, which is
> roughly
>> 6" away (plus an inch or three) from the battery (+) terminal
>> - no pullable circuit breaker, let the 5A fuse do its job
>> - standard 1-3 ON/OFF toggle switch
>> - ground wired directly to the 48/24 firewall ground block, which is
>> connected to the battery via 5" of 2 AWG
>>
>> Do you see any potential gotchas in straying from LSE's
>> recommendations in
>> this way? I don't really see the purpose of using a pullable breaker
>> when
>> you use the optional on/off toggle switch and figure a fuse will do
>> fine.
> I
>> have control in normal cases, and the wires are protected. I guess I
> could
>> always use a 5A breaker switch, but again I don't really see the point
> when
>> a fuse will do the same job cheaper, lighter, etc.
>>
>> As far as the ground goes, is there any possibility of noise
>> affecting the
>> LightSpeed when ground is shared with every device in the plane, even
>> when
>> it's grounded so deliberately close to the battery (but not *quite*
>> to the
>> negative terminal)?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed wiring |
The location of the breaker in the line is VERY important. You want the
circuit protection device (fuse or c/b) to be located as close to the buss
as possible so that you don't have unprotected wiring going any further than
is necessary. Imagine if you wired it up as Lightspeed suggests. Now you
have this wire let's say it's 18AWG running from the battery to this circuit
breaker that is located on the panel somewhere. This wire may be up to 8
feet in length or more. Now if you have a fault in that wire between the
battery and the circuit breaker you have an unprotected wire that is pulling
enough current to cause it's own failure and possibly the failure of other
equipment and or wiring and possibly a fire. If the fuse is located very
close to the battery now a fault in the wire will blow the fuse and the
worst thing that would happen is your device would stop working.
That is the function of a 'buss'. The 'hot' side of a buss (in this case a
fuse block) is physically large enough that it can handle the full current
that the battery is capable of producing. Now you put on the fuse and all
of your current carrying medium is either big enough to handle it or
protected by a device. Now about that battery buss. We use a 14AWG wire
for that. It is not big enough to handle all the current that the battery
can throw at it so we limit it's length to 6" or so. This way at least we
are controlling how and where that wire will fail if it were to fault, and
hopefully we don't locate it near other things that would be adversely
effected by the heat generated by a wire that is failing and then we avoid
using PVC coated wire so that it doesn't poison us as it melts.
If you want to wire it up like Klaus suggests at least put a fusible link
between the battery and the wire running to the circuit breaker, so you have
some control over the failure mode. Personally I think Dan's way is better.
Who needs a circuit breaker. Circuit breakers are for circuits that are
going to nuisance trip and I think we can do a better job of designing these
airplanes than that.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Harding" <cajole76(at)ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LightSpeed wiring
>
> Phil,
> I'm trying to decide on the best way to implement Klaus's schematic
> also. The question I have is, how important is the location of the
> protection in a wire run. Lightspeed doesn't show the breaker location
> in their drawing, but I assumed that since the breaker is the weak
> point, it wouldn't make too much difference where it is located in the
> line. Can someone clear this up for me?
>
> Joel Harding
> On Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003, at 08:07 America/Denver, Phil Birkelbach
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > That's exactly how I plan to wire mine up. The problem that I see from
> > their wiring description is that long unprotected wire from the
> > battery to
> > the breaker. I'd rather get mine fused right away on the battery buss
> > and
> > then I can run the wire all over the place without having to worry
> > about it.
> > Their thought process may be circuit reliablitly by eliminating
> > connections,
> > but the system that you describe should prove to be very robust
> > besides you
> > have another ignition source. If I were putting in two EI's then I
> > might
> > try to figure out an alternate way to power the other one. Like one
> > from
> > the E-buss and one from the battery buss.
> >
> > Godspeed,
> >
> > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
June 10, 2003 - June 24, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cc