AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cj
August 20, 2003 - August 31, 2003
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
>
>Bob,
>
>Awhile back you posted a hand-drawn diagram showing the basic electrical
>configuration for a Z-14 system with two rear-mounted batteries. The
>figure shows six buses: a fuseblock near each battery in back, a ground bus
>in back tied in with the panel/firewall ground bus in front, and the main
>and auxiliary buses in front. I wasn't able to find this diagram on your
>site. I just want to confirm that this is the configuration you recommend
>for two rear-mounted batteries.
See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual COM's, one antenna?? |
>
> I'm building a Lancair Legacy now, all carbon fiber, and wondering how
>to handle 2 COM's without 2 separate, external COM antennas. The Legacy is
>such a sleek design, I hate to have it end up looking like a hedgehog,
>antennae bristling out all over it.
> I've seen the Comant CI 605 "diplexer," but I've heard mixed things
>about it, and its almost $700 price is a little hard to get around.
> Any opinions or experience here?
diplexers or duplexers at vhf frequencies for common tx/rx on
one antenna are not cheap. Further, one antenna is now responsible
for both comm systems . . . single point of failure.
I'd go with two antennas.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Use of relay S704-1 |
>
>Bob,
>
>I am using toggle switches from B&C (P/N S700-1-3 and -2-3) mounted on my
>panel. On my pitot heat with 12 amp draw should I use a S704-1 relay to
>reduce
>the amps going through my 1-3 switch?
What's the wattage rating of your pitot heater (150W?)
if it's the more common 100W the peak current will be over
12A but settles down to 8A while running. You could use
a relay but I think I wouldn't.
> Do I need the relay on a 7 amp landing
>light or just run the full load through the switch?
Right through the switch will be fine.
> What about on my master
>switch to my main bus through which I may run 30 amps with everything
>powered up
>and transmitting? I am using a S704-1 on my OVM (Figure Z-13). Where else
>is an S704-1 appropriate and why? What prolonged amperage can a S700-1-3
>switch handle?
They're rated at 7A. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
I don't think you need any extra relays.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | combining a PM and conventional alternator |
Bob,
I have a Jabiru 3300 engine with a 20 amp PM alternator to which I have added
a B&C spline drive 20 amp alternator. This latter unit may not put out 20 amps
directly driven from the crank, but it will certainly do 10- 12 amps which will
be plenty. I plan to use a Z-14 type of system with the PM alternator connected
with the overvoltage crowbar and s702-1 relay. This will be the main alternator
in the Z14 diagram, and be connected to the starting battery and lighting
system.
The B&C spline drive unit will be connected to the e-bus and a 5 amp-hour battery.
It will have a LR-3 controller. I am committed to this arrangement for weight
and space reasons.
The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady state,
and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an alternator.
It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is labeled 'master
A'. The B&C alternator will be wired as depicted in Z14 "aux alt" position,
but the S701-1 aux battery contactor will be replaced with a S702-1. I am considering
other alterations, too.
Questions:
1. Since I will not cross-feed the batteries for starting, I know that I can replace
the big S701-2 cross-feed with a smaller S702-1 relay. Could I get rid
of the relay altogether and just use a cross-connect switch? No more than 10
amps would be drawn by the e-bus at any time, and probably much less. I'm fairly
confidant that this change should be OK.
2. Could I replace this cross-connect switch with a diode, and get rid of pilot
intervention completely? I'm not worried about voltage spikes on the e-bus,
just voltage sags which reset the EFIS. I will have low voltage annunciation
for both batteries. I can't think of any situation where I would not want the
main bus to contribute to the e-bus if the PM [main] alternator is working,
or if the main battery still had power if the small e-bus 5 amp-hour unit runs
low. I don't want the main bus to draw from the small e-bus battery, and the
diode fulfills that need. However, if the PM alternator fails, the B&C unit could
contribute to the main bus, and a cross-connect switch, in parallel with
the diode, could fill that role. I'm not at all sure how to analyze this choice.
3. Should the PM (main) alternator be connected to the battery side of the Kilovac
contactor as in Z13, or to the load side as in Z14? It does have its own
pilot controlled disconnect relay in the form of the S702-1. If it is on the
battery side of the contactor, I can shut off the nav lights, strobe, landing
lights with just the Master A switch, while still getting power from the PM alternator.
I'm lost on this question.
Thanks for your help
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
>
>Thanks Bob. How would I determine the size for the capacitor?
10uf or larger, 16v or larger. Electrolytics of any style.
You can get some quite small devices from Radio Shack.
Cat/No. 272-1346
(+)side of cap faces the intercom's mic connnection.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Intercom as alarm annunciator |
>
>Rob -
>
>I haven't noticed this feature of intercoms, but maybe I wasn't paying
>attention.
>
>Do you know of a better alternative to capture 3-4 audio signals --
>without using a traditional audio panel?
Just published a DIY audio mixer circuit data
package at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
You can build the monophonic version on the ECB I can
supply or you can get your own from ExpressPCB.com
Artwork file is at:
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-301-1.pcb
You can expand the number of inputs indefinitely
by adding any needed 150-ohm/10-uF combinations
for each new input.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
>
>
>Bob,
>
>How would multiple warning tones into the audio mixer on your web site best
>be handled?
See recent post on data package and options for expanding
inputs out to any practical number . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
Living in Florida should not be a problem with going with Bart.
Only adds a **FEW** dollars shipping charge.
Don't let ~$300 in shipping sway you from getting what is probably one of
the best engine "buildups" you are going to trust your life to.
There may be GREAT shops in Florida, but it will be hard to find one with
Bart's *reputation*.
James
... happy Bart customer in SC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean
> Psiropoulos
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:43 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>
>
<<<>>>
> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in
> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation
> can be found
> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>
>
> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>
> www.predatoraviation.com
>
>
> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>
>
> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>
>
> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have
> different resonant
> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in
> things like
> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package,
> that makes an
> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and
> motor mount
> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many
> more hours of
> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>
>
> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the other
> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto
> engine setup was
> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of
> spending 20
> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY
> ahead of 60
> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I
> talked to
> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new
> Lycoming from
> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you
> want lots
> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down
> to around 15
> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC Canada
> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others) are
> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a
> new Lycoming
> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have
> not heard of
> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>
>
> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a
> 4 Cylinder
> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything
> and lots of
> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is
> going to make
> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10
> builders, maybe
> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the
> idea of the
> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and
> familiarity, but,
> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like
> a V-8 with
> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass
> sales but the
> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for you.
> Go for it.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? <5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610(at)pop.central.cox.net> |
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8(at)pop.central.cox.net>
I have the hall effect sensor on mine. I couldn't remember what connector
it had but I managed to dig up a picture. See here...
http://www.myrv7.com/downloads/mag-pickup.jpg
It looks like a 9-pin female to me.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system?
<5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610(at)pop.central.cox.net>
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8(at)pop.central.cox.net>
>
> > Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
> > Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
> > firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
> > this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
> > that it's a 15-pin connector.
> >
> > I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked
for
> > them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
>
> On my LSE Plasma II system, I used Mouser part #156-1415:
> http://checkoway.com/url/?s=b4d5cb28 It's a 15-pin female connector, and
> that particular part is made by DGS (picked it over AMP because it was
> cheaper).
>
> The confusion over 9-pin vs. 15-pin may be because the Hall Effect sensor
> (which I do not have) does take a 9-pin connector, I believe.
>
> I looked at the LSE web site for online schematics but didn't see any.
Let
> me know if you want me to scan the paper manual schematic for you. Happy
to
> help you out in any way I can, it's the least I can do for all the help
> you've given me!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | customer service |
| From: | <villi.seemann(at)nordea.com> |
Dear listers
The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this forum
as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via e-mail,
and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day as I
ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent 4-5
emails to "info(at)aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply, re-stating
the goods was shipped.
Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably) to
the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed for anything
other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I only know
that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
Best regards
Villi H. Seemann
Sen. Eng. BSEE
Telephony Team
Infrastructure, Network
Phone (+45) 3333 2101
Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
FAX (+45) 3333 1130
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
John:
PDF would be fine. I just got finished pre fitting this panel. Wish I
had another pair of hands. Basically in "MY MANUAL" of 1996, the top of the
panel is about 880mm with the center of the panel aligned with the center line
of the fuselage followed by a measurement of 500 mm at center line, level, at
the bottom of the panel. Your ES is newer, and I believe your panel is
different. I have already filled and put two coats of primer on the bottom. I suppose
I could put the final coat. Speaking of paint, what design are you guys
thinking of? I have gone to Lancair Legacy.com to see several designs. The Legacy
seems to have some similar lines, just a shrunk ES. You mentioned BUS placement.
Sitting in the approximate area of the plane today while fitting the panel, I
did think of BUS placement. Thinking "SOLO," my first thought is probably on
the cabin side wall of the passenger side. Reason? With the A/P on, it would
be easier to check a fuse leaning in that direction. The second area would be
to build some kind of center console with fuse rows. As soon as I get my Dynon
EFIS 10, I'll send some photos.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mireley <mireley(at)msu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: V-8 Airplane power. |
Trampas wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity how much does an LS1 cost? Who supplies them with ECM
> sensors, etc? Also how much does an LS1 weigh?
>
> Thanks
> Trampas
>
Here is a link to the most coplete documentation on a
LSI conversion I've seen.
http://www.v8seabee.com/converstionchart.shtml
The LS6 (405 hp version of the LS1) weighs in at 396 lbs.
The LSI weighs in less that that but I don't have the
number.
________________________________________________________________________________
custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
I have read horror stories about Aircraft Spruce on the RV List in the past. About
a year ago, one of the RV List members had a problem with ACS and called the
president of the company, Jim Irwin. He reported back to the list that Mr.
Irwin took care of the problem and went "above and beyond" for him. I mention
this, because it swayed me to do business with ACS recently.
I used their web site to order all the parts. I had a copy of their 2002/2003
catalog as well. I was pleasantly surprised to find that most of the items I ordered
had gone DOWN in price compared to the catalog. All the items I ordered
were in stock. Ordering on line let me know that before the order was complete.
I received several email communications to let me know that ACS had received
and processed my order. The order arrived 3 days after it was placed. Everything
was there and "as advertised". Please count me as a satisfied customer. I'll
be placing another order with them this weekend.
FYI I price shopped for all this stuff. ACS has the hands down best prices on
AN hydraulic fittings. The "auto racing" places don't even come close. I have
ordered parts from ACS's competitor Wicks in the past. I've always been happy
with them as well. I placed an order with Wicks the same day I placed my ACS order.
I had numerous problems using Wicks web site to order. I finally gave up
and had to call them to place the order. So ACS scores a #1 with their web site
as well. I hope this all gets straightened out for Mr. Seemann. I suspect that
the problem is with the shipper or customs.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit systems stuff. I'm finally to the part of this project where the
real fun starts! :-)
Boca Raton, Florida, USA
>
>Dear listers
>
>The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this forum
as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
>I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via e-mail,
and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day as
I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
>Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent 4-5
emails to "info(at)aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply, re-stating
the goods was shipped.
>
>Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably) to
the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed for
anything other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I only
know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
>
>
>Best regards
>Villi H. Seemann
>Sen. Eng. BSEE
>Telephony Team
>Infrastructure, Network
>Phone (+45) 3333 2101
>Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
>FAX (+45) 3333 1130
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
I will second that. They also have great support after building the engine.
They sent me a free fitting which would have cost me at least 50 bucks!!!
>
>
>Living in Florida should not be a problem with going with Bart.
>
>Only adds a **FEW** dollars shipping charge.
>
>Don't let ~$300 in shipping sway you from getting what is probably one of
>the best engine "buildups" you are going to trust your life to.
>
>There may be GREAT shops in Florida, but it will be hard to find one with
>Bart's *reputation*.
>
>
>James
> ... happy Bart customer in SC
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean
>> Psiropoulos
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:43 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>>
>>
>
>
><<<>>>
>
>
>> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
>> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
>> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
>> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in
>> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation
>> can be found
>> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>>
>> www.predatoraviation.com
>>
>>
>> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>>
>>
>> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>>
>>
>> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
>> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
>> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
>> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have
>> different resonant
>> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in
>> things like
>> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
>> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package,
>> that makes an
>> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
>> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and
>> motor mount
>> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
>> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
>> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many
>> more hours of
>> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>>
>>
>> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the other
>> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto
>> engine setup was
>> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of
>> spending 20
>> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
>> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY
>> ahead of 60
>> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
>> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
>> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
>> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I
>> talked to
>> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
>> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new
>> Lycoming from
>> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
>> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
>> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
>> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
>> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you
>> want lots
>> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down
>> to around 15
>> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC Canada
>> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
>> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
>> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
>> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
>> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
>> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others) are
>> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a
>> new Lycoming
>> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
>> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
>> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have
>> not heard of
>> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>>
>>
>> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
>> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a
>> 4 Cylinder
>> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything
>> and lots of
>> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is
>> going to make
>> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
>> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10
>> builders, maybe
>> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the
>> idea of the
>> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and
>> familiarity, but,
>> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like
>> a V-8 with
>> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
>> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
>> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass
>> sales but the
>> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for you.
>> Go for it.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Dean Psiropoulos
>>
>> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RSwanson" <rswan19(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
Don't know if it'll help, but try this:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mailcustsvc.php?
R
----- Original Message -----
From: <villi.seemann(at)nordea.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: customer service
>
> Dear listers
>
> The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of
this forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
> I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
> I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same
day as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
> Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have
sent 4-5 emails to "info(at)aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless
reply, re-stating the goods was shipped.
>
> Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem
to be backed for anything other than orders. At least complains are never
responded to. I only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is
of no good use to me.
>
>
> Best regards
> Villi H. Seemann
> Sen. Eng. BSEE
> Telephony Team
> Infrastructure, Network
> Phone (+45) 3333 2101
> Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
> FAX (+45) 3333 1130
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | customer service |
> Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
> preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address
> doesn't seem to be backed for anything other than orders. At
> least complains are never responded to. I only know that single
> e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
Interesting that you should mention this now Villi. Jim Irwin, President of
ASS, is currently "firefighting" customer service problems raised by
builders on the Cozy mail list. I don't know what you're building, and I
don't know his direct email address, but I'll forward you're message to the
list where I know he's watching. Hopefully you'll get a response and a
resolution.
Regards,
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kilovac 200 Master contactor was |
combining a PM and conventional alternator
James,
Could you tell me more about your master contactor? Where did you purchase it?
I found this using Google:
http://www.nucletron.de/nuvt/pdf/EV200.pdf
Is this the correct model? How much did you pay for this and who supplied it?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit systems stuff
>
>snipped
>
>The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady state,
and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an alternator.
It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is labeled 'master
A'.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: combining a PM and conventional |
alternator
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a Jabiru 3300 engine with a 20 amp PM alternator to which I have
>added a B&C spline drive 20 amp alternator. This latter unit may not put
>out 20 amps directly driven from the crank, but it will certainly do 10-
>12 amps which will be plenty. I plan to use a Z-14 type of system with
>the PM alternator connected with the overvoltage crowbar and s702-1
>relay. This will be the main alternator in the Z14 diagram, and be
>connected to the starting battery and lighting system.
>
>The B&C spline drive unit will be connected to the e-bus and a 5 amp-hour
>battery. It will have a LR-3 controller. I am committed to this
>arrangement for weight and space reasons.
>
>The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady
>state, and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an
>alternator. It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is
>labeled 'master A'. The B&C alternator will be wired as depicted in Z14
>"aux alt" position, but the S701-1 aux battery contactor will be replaced
>with a S702-1. I am considering other alterations, too.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Since I will not cross-feed the batteries for starting, I know that I
>can replace the big S701-2 cross-feed with a smaller S702-1 relay.
Do you mean S704-1 relay? S702-1 is a starter contactor that draws LOTS
of coil amps.
> Could I get rid of the relay altogether and just use a cross-connect
> switch?
sure . . .
> No more than 10 amps would be drawn by the e-bus at any time, and
> probably much less. I'm fairly confidant that this change should be OK.
>
>2. Could I replace this cross-connect switch with a diode, and get rid of
>pilot intervention completely? I'm not worried about voltage spikes on
>the e-bus, just voltage sags which reset the EFIS. I will have low
>voltage annunciation for both batteries. I can't think of any situation
>where I would not want the main bus to contribute to the e-bus if the PM
>[main] alternator is working, or if the main battery still had power if
>the small e-bus 5 amp-hour unit runs low. I don't want the main bus to
>draw from the small e-bus battery, and the diode fulfills that need.
>However, if the PM alternator fails, the B&C unit could contribute to the
>main bus, and a cross-connect switch, in parallel with the diode, could
>fill that role. I'm not at all sure how to analyze this choice.
Are you making this too complicated? How about the all-electric airplane
on a budget. The SD-20 alternator driven directly from your crankshaft
will be good for 40A. I'd make this the main alternator. Hook the PM
alternator up as a standby and single battery changed out every two years
max. You could stay with a much less expensive S701-1 battery contactor,
power to keep it closed is not an issue.
>3. Should the PM (main) alternator be connected to the battery side of
>the Kilovac contactor as in Z13, or to the load side as in Z14? It does
>have its own pilot controlled disconnect relay in the form of the
>S702-1. If it is on the battery side of the contactor, I can shut off the
>nav lights, strobe, landing lights with just the Master A switch, while
>still getting power from the PM alternator. I'm lost on this question.
Given what I understand your system right now, if it were
my airplane, I'd go with Z-13 and keep it simple. This
configuration gives you reliability most twin engine
certified ships don't have. Just keep a fresh, 17 a.h.
battery in place and you're set to go.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
>
>
> If I were using this material, I think I would solder
> the joints. Gas-tight with no metal being mashed. Agreed . . .
> "relaxing" of any metal under pressure is alloy dependent . . .
> I don't think we worry much about thousands of riveted joints
> in aluminum structures getting loose due to viscosity of the
> metal.
>
> I'll poke around the AMP application notes and position papers
> on aluminum conductors. If ANYONE knows all the details, it
> has to be AMP.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>Bob Eric,
>
>
>I've been following this thread with interest when possible. I'm
>interested 'cuz I'm building a kitfox with a 28 AH RG battery in the tail
>to balance a Lyc O-235 engine. The kit came with a 4 AWG copper wire to
>run from the battery contactor to the starter contactor (about 17
>feet!) recommends grounding through the steel frame. Based on The
>Connection a short discussion with Tim Hedding at BC, I'vedecided to run
>a separate ground wire but it was tough 'cuz I'm trying everywhere to hold
>my weight down as much as possible. Iwould really like touse CCA wire but,
>regardless would like to be sure I'm using wire of sufficient size without
>over-doing it. I'm running a Sky-Tec Starter (pretty sure it's PM) single
>electronic ignition with a 28 AH RG battery. It is about 17 feet from
>master to starter contactor and about another4 or 5 feet to the starter.
>Assuming copper wire, could you please recommend a minimum wire size for
>both the positive negative leads? Any other comments ar!
>e welcome too.
2AWG or it's equal in CCA wire (1/0) is recommended. How's
your weight and balance look if you have a 15# battery?
You can save 13# in battery and use part of the savings
to pay for taking battery (-) up to the firewall ground
stud on it's own CCA wire. Overall weight savings would
be substantial as long as you don't NEED more ballast
at the battery location.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
>
>Dear listers
>
>The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this
>forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
>I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
>e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day
>as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
>Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have
>sent 4-5 emails to "info(at)aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless
>reply, re-stating the goods was shipped.
>
>Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
>preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem
>to be backed for anything other than orders. At least complains are never
>responded to. I only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is
>of no good use to me.
What e-mail address have you been using for them? How did they
say your package was shipped? Did they send you a tracking number?
Have you tried their customer service phone number? 800-861-3192
If you're getting automated e-mail responses, then I think you're
sending your e-mail to an address specifically set up for order
status inquiries. Try custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com for contact
with an individual or as last resort, the 800 phone number
above.
If your order shipped, then they'll not have any way to
know where the parts are except to query the shipper's
computer using a tracking number. I've not ordered from
Aircraft Spruce lately but I would be surprised if they
didn't send you a carrier name, URL for package tracking
and a tracking number. If you did receive this data, then
you need to take it up with the shipper. Once confirmed
that the package is lost, the shipper will pay you for
it and you can place a new order with Aircraft Spruce.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | customer service |
Try custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com and if that does not get results, contact me
off list with your order number (and whatever it is you'd like me to relay
to ACS on your behalf) at robh@hyperion-ef.com and I'll call their local
number to see what I can learn.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
villi.seemann(at)nordea.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: customer service
Dear listers
The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this
forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day
as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent
4-5 emails to "info(at)aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply,
re-stating the goods was shipped.
Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably)
to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed
for anything other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I
only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to
me.
Best regards
Villi H. Seemann
Sen. Eng. BSEE
Telephony Team
Infrastructure, Network
Phone (+45) 3333 2101
Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
FAX (+45) 3333 1130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Byrne" <jcbyrne(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
Try fun_plane(at)HOTMAIL.COM
That will go direct to Jim Irwin the boss.
Chris Byrne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | customer service |
Jim Irwin's email address is fun_plane(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
Bob Eric,
I've been following this thread with interest when possible. I'm
interested 'cuz I'm building a kitfox with a 28 AH RG battery in the tail
to balance a Lyc O-235 engine. The kit came with a 4 AWG copper wire to
run from the battery contactor to the starter contactor (about 17
feet!) recommends grounding through the steel frame. Based on The
Connection a short discussion with Tim Hedding at BC, I'vedecided to run
a separate ground wire but it was tough 'cuz I'm trying everywhere to hold
my weight down as much as possible. Iwould really like touse CCA wire but,
regardless would like to be sure I'm using wire of sufficient size without
over-doing it. I'm running a Sky-Tec Starter (pretty sure it's PM) single
electronic ignition with a 28 AH RG battery. It is about 17 feet from
master to starter contactor and about another4 or 5 feet to the starter.
Assuming copper wire, could you please recommend a minimum wire size for
both the positive negative leads? Any other comments ar!
e welcome too.
2AWG or it's equal in CCA wire (1/0) is recommended. How's
your weight and balance look if you have a 15# battery?
You can save 13# in battery and use part of the savings
to pay for taking battery (-) up to the firewall ground
stud on it's own CCA wire. Overall weight savings would
be substantial as long as you don't NEED more ballast
at the battery location.
Bob . . .
I would LOVE to use a lighter battery but I've been told by sources I believe to
be reliable that I can't know the WB situation until I am fully covered painted.
Is that your understanding too or is there a way I can figure it out ahead
of time?
As Skystar sent me the heavy battery told me toplace it as far back in thetail
as possibleI would guess shaving 13 lbs off the weight would put me out of the
CG envelope. However, I have gone to great lengths to keep weight out of the
airplane and especially out of the nose(e.g. light weight starter alternator,
electronic ignition minimized length of propellor extension) In the event that
I am able to use the lighter battery, could you post the make model of the
one you're thinking of?
Thank You,
Grant
======================================================================
MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
Bob, as far as I know you cannot call an 1-8xx number from outside the
US/Canada.
Finn
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay.
>>
> Have you tried their customer service phone number? 800-861-3192
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel, of sorts... |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Bob,
Would it work to hook multiple audio sources to the comm audio in and
use resistors to balance the individual volume levels?
Joel Harding
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 11:23 America/Denver, Robert L.
Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Bob. How would I determine the size for the capacitor?
>
> 10uf or larger, 16v or larger. Electrolytics of any style.
> You can get some quite small devices from Radio Shack.
> Cat/No. 272-1346
>
> (+)side of cap faces the intercom's mic connnection.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio panel, of sorts... |
>
>Bob,
>Would it work to hook multiple audio sources to the comm audio in and
>use resistors to balance the individual volume levels?
>
>Joel Harding
To some degree. You can see if this works for you. You
won't hurt anything by trying.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
>
>Bob, as far as I know you cannot call an 1-8xx number from outside the
>US/Canada.
>
>Finn
Okay, their website reports an international number as:
International: +909-372-9555
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
>
>
>I have the hall effect sensor on mine. I couldn't remember what connector
>it had but I managed to dig up a picture. See here...
>
>http://www.myrv7.com/downloads/mag-pickup.jpg
>
>It looks like a 9-pin female to me.
Yup . . . me too. Thanks for the data!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmfpublic(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | EV200 contactor source |
Charlie Kuss:
The link to the manufacturer is http://www.kilovac.com/general.news.item.asp?
id=330. If this does not work, just use kilovac.com and start from the first
page. The spec sheet is impressive, and at the end gives you the precise model
number that you need--I've listed it in the next paragraph.
The distributor is http://onlinecomponents.com and you search for EV200. The
model number that you need is EV200 AAANA, which has a 9-36 volt coil, and no
auxillary switch to indicate "on". This is about $85 quantity one. If you do
want an auxillary switch, the model number is EV200 HAANA, cost $91 each.
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Homebuilt State Sales Tax Warning - Not Aeroelectric |
Related
Not electric-related but is OBAM related --
In case aeroelectric listers don't subscribe to the rv-list, this is
copied from my post today on that list:
Dear -listers,
Sorry to have to dredge up such a morbid subject (again), but I have
some new info if you live/fly/register your project in Illinois. Not
all states are this punitive, but it might pay to check this out in your
state to verify. . .
Any purchases a builder makes from out of state from retailers (this
includes Van's kits, AeroElectric Connection, Cleaveland seats,
Aerosport Power engines, etc.) for which you don't pay sales tax are
taxable in Illinois at 6.25%, and if you don't pay this sales tax from
day 1 and assume like I did that you'll have to cough it up upon
completion and registration of your finished project, think again!
In a nutshell, here's what the Illinois State Use Tax law demands:
Every time you buy qualifying items from out-of-state retailers, compute
the sales tax (buying things from a non-retailer such as another builder
is NON-TAXABLE). If this tax is less than $600.00 ($9600 purchase
value) in one calendar year, you may pay it annually. Once the computed
tax for a large item (engine) exceeds $600--, you have 30 days to send
the Dept. of Revenue a check and form ST-44. (See
<http://www.iltax.com/> http://www.iltax.com ) Failure to do so makes
you liable for penalties and interest!!
Illinois builders: The state is offering a "Penalty and Interest
Amnesty" program from October 1, 2003 to November 15, 2003. I was just
told yesterday on the phone by a Mr. Mark Russell at the Dept. of
Revenue that after this amnesty period, the state tax investigators (?)
will be "vigorously pursuing builders who are in non-compliance."
Don't ask me how you might be able to avoid paying state sales tax in
Illinois and possibly other states. I don't have time to research, but
wanted to give IL builders a heads-up on this penalty and interest
amnesty thing in case they want to participate. If you do, simply add a
cover letter to your ST-44 form that states "I wish to participate in
the amnesty program that will waive penalties and interest for state
sales tax." As crazy as this may sound, Mr. Russell made it clear to me
that I should DEFINITELY NOT SEND THIS LETTER AND CHECK IN UNTIL OCTOBER
1st, AS THE AMNESTY WOULD NOT BE IN EFFECT UNTIL THEN! Go figure.
At least I have over a month to figure out where I'm going to come up
with a large chunk of change! <8-(
Sure wish I had known about this in '97!
Ken Brooks
RV-8QB in progress - starting on canopy next week
N1903P reserved
How fortunate for governments that the people do not think -- Adolf
Hitler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Whitaker <rmwhitaker(at)lanl.gov> |
Bob, Listers
I'm about to install the LR3-14 regulator into my RV-9. It uses a midget
flanged
#330 bulb for the voltage warning lamp.
Can I replace the #330 bulb with an LED as a warning light? If so, how
would I wire
this up without damaging the regulator?
Thanks in advance,
Rob
BTW I suspect that this has been discussed before, but I could not recover
anything
from the archives.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Battery Cable and the book I wish I written |
Battery Cable Update--I have the CCA prices and am waiting for a quote from
the insulation people. But it looks like I will have made not only the AWG
1/0 cable with 1 mm Radox FX insulation, but the AWG #2 and the AWG #4
cables too. There's going to be a lot of cable in my garage if somebody
doesn't buy some.
The book I wish I'd written--Check the Art of Electronics by Horowitz and
Hill at Amazon. They have 45 pages from the book to sample online. Good
Stuff.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | proper use of RCT-3 tool |
I am getting ready to wire the harness for my Dynon, but my RCT-3 crimp
tool came with no instructions. What is the proper way to use the tool,
ie. how much of the pin should stick out prior to crimping, how much
insulation to strip off the wires, etc.
Jeff Point
RV-6 wiring, panel
Milwaukee, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: proper use of RCT-3 tool |
>
>I am getting ready to wire the harness for my Dynon, but my RCT-3 crimp
>tool came with no instructions. What is the proper way to use the tool,
>ie. how much of the pin should stick out prior to crimping, how much
>insulation to strip off the wires, etc.
Strip a wire and slip a pin over it. You should have enough
insulation removed so that you can just see some strands of
wire beyond the end of insulation . . . .01" to .03" gap.
The pin goes all the way into the tool. If the tool was purchased
from B&C, the positioner should be modified so that the end of
the pin is just flush to slightly underflush to the face of the
tool when the pin is fully inserted.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable and the book I wish I |
written
>
>Battery Cable Update--I have the CCA prices and am waiting for a quote from
>the insulation people. But it looks like I will have made not only the AWG
>1/0 cable with 1 mm Radox FX insulation, but the AWG #2 and the AWG #4
>cables too. There's going to be a lot of cable in my garage if somebody
>doesn't buy some.
>
>The book I wish I'd written--Check the Art of Electronics by Horowitz and
>Hill at Amazon. They have 45 pages from the book to sample online. Good
>Stuff.
I have that book . . . I'm not nearly as impressed with it as
I am with T. Floyd's work.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob, Listers
>
>I'm about to install the LR3-14 regulator into my RV-9. It uses a midget
>flanged
>#330 bulb for the voltage warning lamp.
>
>Can I replace the #330 bulb with an LED as a warning light? If so, how
>would I wire
>this up without damaging the regulator?
See http://216.55.140.222/temp/LV_Led.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Rob -
I sent you a couple of files directly that Bob drew up. One is for a
bicolor LED and the other is for a single color LED.
do no archive.
John
> Can I replace the #330 bulb with an LED as a warning light? If so, how
> would I wire this up without damaging the regulator?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
> Bob-- Got your book. Have read the section on ammeters/shunts several
> times. But, I just don't understand the mechanics of the shunt. If the
> shunt reduces the voltage to say 50 M.V.for the ammeter, how does it
> still then carry battery voltage to ground? Seems I'm missing a
> fundamental or two.
A shunt is simply a precision resistor capable of carrying
a lot more current that the panel instrument. When ammeters
were first installed in vehicles, they were usually a
"battery ammeter" with discharge-0-charge markings on them
These instruments had FAT wires coming to big terminals
on the back. ALL of the current that the instrument was
measuring passed through the instrument.
The nice thing about a shunt is that it carries the
vast majority of the current to be measured. Panel
instruments designed to work with shunts are intended
to operate as VOLTMETERS with a full scale deflection
of 50 millivolts.
If you want your instrument to be a 100A full scale
device, then you need a shut resistance of 0.05v/100a
= 500 micro-ohms. If you want a 10A full scale
instrument, then the shunt becomes 0.05v/10a = 5
milliohms.
The ammeter has nothing to do with battery voltage
nor does it "reduce voltage" . . . it does what
all resistors do: presents a voltage drop that is
proportional to the current flowing in the resistor.
The 10A and 100A ammeter hypothetical cases above
could be used at any system voltage.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | "Startstik" still around? |
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>I've been thinking about installing a second battery in the back of my
>Long-Ez with its primary mission being to start the engine. I could then
>reduce the cable size (#2 currently) that runs to the front of the nose
>where the existing battery resides. I had seen a product called
>"Startstick" a couple of years ago at Oshkosh but can no longer find the
>company. I liked the size of the battery because it was relatively long
>and thin and would fit nicely in either the "hell hole" or above the spar,
>behind the passenger's head.
>However, there are some obvious questions.
>
>1) Do you know of an alternate source of such batteries?
I believe that product used the approximately "c" sized, sealed
lead-acid cells made by Bolder Technologies . . . now defunct.
>2) How do I tie the "starter battery" into the electrical system so that
>it stays charged without over charging it. Is this a candidate for your
>Aux. Bat Manager Module?
You could do that . . . but I presume that unless you
can acquire a very small battery capable of cranking
the engine, this isn't going to be an option. Have
you considered how the system is going to perform
if the alternator quits? See chapter 17 from our
book, "The AeroElectric Connection" . . .
You can download this chapter at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
You can downsize a battery considerably if you have
two engine driven power sources. See Figure 17-4.
Suppose the battery does come out of the nose, how
does your weight and balance look? Most of the
Longs I've seen needed that nose weight to keep
w/b in bounds.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
>
> > That would be most useful data to have in my files. I'd
> > appreciate it.
>
>Will do. I'll email you the files off-list.
>
> > Sooooo . . . if one plans to put the brain box on the other side
> > of the firewall -AND- one has the magneto-drive trigger option,
> > there are perhaps TWO d-sub connectors to remove and replace?
>
>I don't think you'd need to remove the mag-drive D-9 connector itself, just
>reconnect its wires to the 15-pin connector. The reason being, the D-9
>connector to the mag-drive doesn't need to pass through any holes.
Help me out here. If I'm reading the wiring diagrams right,
there's a 15-pin connector on the brain box and a 9-pin
connector on the optional mag-drive timing sensor.
If one chooses not to use the mag-drive timing sensor, then
there is one d-sub connector (15-pin) inside and loose wires
to route to their respective connections on the engine. Why
would one need to cut a hole large enough for a 15-pin
connector in this case? Just feed loose wires through the
firewall and hook 'em up.
If you do have a mag-drive sensor, then the only connector
that needs to go through a hole would be the 9-pin . . .
(and therefore, a smaller hole) -OR- one could choose to
remove the connector and replace it after wires are routed.
If I'm interpreting this correctly, then the only case
where one needs a connector to "upgrade" the harness on
an LSE system is if the builder plans to install the
mag-drive sensor. In this case, the connector to be
supplied would be a 9-pin, D-sub with male pins.
Do I have the real picture here?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
This is not quite correct. The wires leading from the flywheel sensor
to the D-sub are soldered, gooped up and basically permanently attached
to the flywheel sensor, from the factory. The only loose wires are the
power and ground wires. There are seperate (RG58 or some such) which
attach with BNCs to the brain box, which go to the ignition coils.
Jeff Point
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> If one chooses not to use the mag-drive timing sensor, then
> there is one d-sub connector (15-pin) inside and loose wires
> to route to their respective connections on the engine. Why
> would one need to cut a hole large enough for a 15-pin
> connector in this case? Just feed loose wires through the
> firewall and hook 'em up.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Bob,
>Could you enlighted the Metcal ignorant among us with some recommendations
>for a mid priced unit. I see a new one that's called a STSS-002E. Would
>that be acceptable for our needs?
Anything with Metcal's name on it is a fine soldering
machine and well suited to your needs.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
> If one chooses not to use the mag-drive timing sensor, then
> there is one d-sub connector (15-pin) inside and loose wires
> to route to their respective connections on the engine. Why
> would one need to cut a hole large enough for a 15-pin
> connector in this case? Just feed loose wires through the
> firewall and hook 'em up.
Because the wires are already soldered and secured to the crank position
sensor (the alternative to the Hall Effect sensor). It's really a silly way
to ship the system, but I understand why Klaus does it that way. Or maybe
it comes with loose ends and AeroSport soldered it to the crank sensor, I'm
not sure.
> If you do have a mag-drive sensor, then the only connector
> that needs to go through a hole would be the 9-pin . . .
> (and therefore, a smaller hole) -OR- one could choose to
> remove the connector and replace it after wires are routed.
Presumably, yep. But not having a mag drive sensor I can't speak to that
config.
I can only give you info about the crank sensor equipped setup, which simply
has the crank sensor, wires soldered and secured to it (as it came from
AeroSport Power), with a bundle running to the 15-pin connector, soldered on
as it came from LSE. Had to cut that connector off, run the little wire
bundle through an existing firewall pass-through (sharing the same
pass-through as EGT/CHT probes), then crimp on a new 15-pin connector inside
the cabin.
Not sure if this is in the same ballpark as the "upgrade" that you're
talking about.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Foerster" <jmfpublic(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: combining a PM and conventional alternator |
Bob,
Thanks for your help. You were right about the relays: I meant to refer to the
S704-1 units with the minimal power draw.
Unfortunately, I cannot use Z13 because I need a second battery on the e-bus to
maintain the EFIS during startup. Also, I need both alternators operational.
The SD-20 alternator puts out 12 amps at 2000 rpm, 18 amps at 2500, and 22 amps
at 3000. It is directly driven from the crankshaft at crankshaft rpm. The
PM alternator built in to the 3300 Jabiru engine is also limited to 18-22 amps.
I am stuck with a Z14 type of system. Both alternators must run all the
time for adequate output capacity. In essence, I have two buses: the main or
lighting-starting bus, and the instrument-radio bus.
Because the PM alternator is reputed to be noisier than the conventional, I have
arbitrarily elected to use it for the lighting-starting main bus, and use that
B&C SD-20 for the e-bus. Both alternators will have cooling for their regulators
in the form of tiny centrifugal fans, which cost a few dollars on the industrial
surplus market.
As the Jabiru engines are getting popular in the experimental market, I intend
to share my circuit diagram with anyone who wants it, as soon as I feel confidant
that is works well. I hope to make my mistakes on paper, rather than in copper!
Jim Foerster
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
I'm thinking of using a fuel pressure switch, like the oil pressure switch
that's used to run a hobbs meter. It would energize a relay and turn on
the electric fuel pump if the fuel pressure drops below, say, 15 lbs
(injected engine).
I'd have it light a warning light at the same time. I'd have to come up
with a way to defeat it prior to engine start.
Comments? Ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10736 Gissendanner |
> Hello again Bob,
>
>I am mounting a gps antenna on the fiberglass top deck on my GlaStar. I
>plan to use a copper ground plane. What diameter ground plane is
>recommened for gps antennas?
The unique nature of GPS antenna patterns makes them relatively
free of ground plane effects. A disk on the order of 4" diameter
would be fine . . . and it would work about as well with no
ground plane.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
You would have to put some kind of latch in the system.
Fuel pressure drops, pump comes on
Fuel pressure high, pump goes off
Fuel pressure low, pump comes on
Etc.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
richard(at)riley.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel pressure automatic switch?
I'm thinking of using a fuel pressure switch, like the oil pressure
switch
that's used to run a hobbs meter. It would energize a relay and turn on
the electric fuel pump if the fuel pressure drops below, say, 15 lbs
(injected engine).
I'd have it light a warning light at the same time. I'd have to come up
with a way to defeat it prior to engine start.
Comments? Ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: combining a PM and conventional |
alternator
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for your help. You were right about the relays: I meant to refer
>to the S704-1 units with the minimal power draw.
>
>Unfortunately, I cannot use Z13 because I need a second battery on the
>e-bus to maintain the EFIS during startup. Also, I need both alternators
>operational. The SD-20 alternator puts out 12 amps at 2000 rpm, 18 amps
>at 2500, and 22 amps at 3000. It is directly driven from the crankshaft
>at crankshaft rpm.
Hmmm . . . forgot that engined doesn't have a gear-reduction
drive . . .
> The PM alternator built in to the 3300 Jabiru engine is also limited to
> 18-22 amps. I am stuck with a Z14 type of system. Both alternators must
> run all the time for adequate output capacity. In essence, I have two
> buses: the main or lighting-starting bus, and the instrument-radio bus.
>
>Because the PM alternator is reputed to be noisier than the conventional,
>I have arbitrarily elected to use it for the lighting-starting main bus,
>and use that B&C SD-20 for the e-bus. Both alternators will have cooling
>for their regulators in the form of tiny centrifugal fans, which cost a
>few dollars on the industrial surplus market.
The SD-20 regulator requires no cooling. PM alternator regulators
DO run very hot as they have to carry and control full alternator output.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
How about linking the affair through an oil pressure switch, i.e. the
autofuel-switch wouldn't work until after the engine was running.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard(at)riley.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel pressure automatic switch?
>
> I'm thinking of using a fuel pressure switch, like the oil pressure switch
> that's used to run a hobbs meter. It would energize a relay and turn on
> the electric fuel pump if the fuel pressure drops below, say, 15 lbs
> (injected engine).
>
> I'd have it light a warning light at the same time. I'd have to come up
> with a way to defeat it prior to engine start.
>
> Comments? Ideas?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
richard(at)riley.net wrote:
>I'd have it light a warning light at the same time. I'd have to come up
>with a way to defeat it prior to engine start.
---
Sounds good, but I'd be concerned with automatically feeding an engine
fire. If you're sure you can defeat it properly, maybe a good
idea. Many have thought about it for autos but backed off after
thinking about an accident and possible fire.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
>
>I'm thinking of using a fuel pressure switch, like the oil pressure switch
>that's used to run a hobbs meter. It would energize a relay and turn on
>the electric fuel pump if the fuel pressure drops below, say, 15 lbs
>(injected engine).
>
>I'd have it light a warning light at the same time. I'd have to come up
>with a way to defeat it prior to engine start.
What is the failure mode you're addressing and how does the
new feature mitigate the failure with any more assurance
than what's been done in the past. Does the new feature
insert new failure modes or undesirable behaviors?
Right now, if the engine stumbles, we KNOW that 99+% of the
time it's from fuel starvation. This means either (1) failure
of some flow control/generation component in the system or
(2) starvation due to mis-placement of fuel controls
and/or empty tank(s).
How long from onset of event does it take for you to
recognize the problem, research the range of causes
and react to them (assuming there's some reaction
that CAN fix it)?
I'll suggest that this is generally a few seconds . . .
certainly less than 10. How much altitude would you loose
in ten seconds?
The autoswitching pump can react only to failure of
normal pump. If you're using electronic pumps like FAWCET,
normal pump failure is close to zero. This failure mode
figures in only a tiny percentage of fuel flow problems.
It has the probability of unwanted behavior unless the
circuit is more complex. All this adds to cost of ownership
and addresses a very rare event.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Switch |
>
>In a message dated 8/21/2003 4:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
>Howdy A-list-
>
>I have the switch from B & C and you'd think this has got to be a
>pretty simple device. However, I am mystified at it's operation.
>Terminals are P S & I (cute). P appears to be common. With no
>pressure, I read anywhere between 120 & 2 to 3+ M ohms from P to S
>(wandering around sometimes on my Fluke 87, sometimes stable at around
>130-140 ohms), then when pressure applied, infinity. P to I acts like
>normal NO connection, switching properly when pressure is applied. I am
>using air- maybe it needs oiling? Or is it defective? Maybe the
>internal processor or kadink muffler is defective, or it needs
>shielding?
These are very simple, but fancy either. If it's the
same switch I used to sell, it's got bare brass contacts
that might deliver strange readings until after exercised
in service.
>Hello Mark,
>
>I was going to reply to you privately but then I thought "Hey, Mark has a
>great sense of humor and would really appreciate this to be shared with
>all!"
>Your pressure switch problem is kind of like the story about the blonde
>who was
>asking the car parts guy for a "lio" cap casket for her shinny new red
>convertible. She was reading the "part number" upside down.
>
>I am betting that oil pressure switch from B & C is a simple dry contact type
>device. The terminals are probably not marked at all and what you are
>reading is "PSI" with a second paper sticker that read: "100 lb.. Max"
>that has
>fallen off. Digital voltmeters tell us much more than we need to know at
>times.
>They are very high input impedance instruments and use a very tiny current to
>check resistance. If all you had at your disposal was a simple test light,
>you would have figured out which contacts are which. 8 )
>
There's another possibility: You may have an earlier switch that
I selected several years ago. I've heard that they have a new
product that is more robust and promises to work better. While
I was selling the switch, I think I had one return in about 4 years
and sold perhaps two dozen switches. Not a high return rate but
not a very big sample either.
Check with B&C and see if you might be more interested in
the later offering.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
Here is my Auto Fuel Pressure Switch ---"Boos'Witch":
Available "soon" as they say. I've got three prototypes, but I just got my oscilloscope
back so it's time to get back to work on this. The internal Mosfet will
drive any electric pump I can find. 15 Amps is not a problem.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/booswitch.pdf
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Richard" <steve(at)oasissolutions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
Very interesting device. How would you handle a low boost / high boost
requirement and a momemtary low boost / high boost requirement? My hot
starting method involves a momentary low boost switch.
Regards,
Steve Richard
steve(at)oasissolutions.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch?
Here is my Auto Fuel Pressure Switch ---"Boos'Witch":
Available "soon" as they say. I've got three prototypes, but I just got my
oscilloscope back so it's time to get back to work on this. The internal
Mosfet will drive any electric pump I can find. 15 Amps is not a problem.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/booswitch.pdf
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure automatic switch? |
>>How would you handle a low boost / high boost
>>requirement and a momentary low boost / high boost requirement? My hot
>>starting method involves a momentary low boost switch.
>>Regards, Steve Richard
Steve, I don't know but perhaps the following will help:
By the way--I must credit Clifford Dow for the idea. Yours is coming Cliff.
"Soon".
> How does this this Logic work?
This system presumes (but doesn't require) that you have an electric boost
pump and an engine driven
mechanical fuel pump.When ON is selected, the boost pump turns on as long as
the switch remains
ON. When AUTO is selected, the electric boost pump turns on only if low
pressure is detected.
If you climbed in your airplane and selected AUTO immediately, the
Boos'Witch would sense low fuel pressure and latch the electric boost pump
on. Flipping the switch back to ON would have no effect (the pump would stay
on), and the pump would turn off if OFF was selected.
So basically--
OFF commands the boost pump OFF (regardless of anything).
ON turns the boost pump ON (regardless of anything).
AUTO turns the boost pump ON --if and only if-- low fuel pressure is
detected.
This is a simple and logically correct way to do this. If you throttle back
to
the point where the fuel pressure falls (IF you can do this), or turn off
the engine in flight, the boost pump WILL turn on.
Be aware of this when playing around.
If you have an electric fuel pump and an electric boost pump. This works
about the same, unless your standard start-up procedure is to turn on the
main electric pump; then you have to decide what you wanted to do.
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"The whole difference between construction and creation is exactly this:
that a thing constructed can only be loved after it is constructed;
but a thing created is loved before it exists."
--Charles Dickens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | What is difference: bnc vs. tnc connectors? |
I got female type coax cable connectors on the Garmin430 antenna lead ins
and need to plug something into it. I know it is male type and round. I
assume it is BNC but there is also TNC. What is the diff or does it matter?
(Sometimes a little knowledge paralizes.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Brown" <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
| Subject: | What is difference: bnc vs. tnc connectors? |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> From: LarryRobertHelming
> assume it is BNC but there is also TNC. What is the diff or does
BNC is a bayonet-type connector (twist-lock), while TNC is threaded.
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
-- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBP0eCp36CI7gsQbX8EQI9aQCfen6ERLXH2EssG6HRhiHdR6EKMWYAniq3
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=ggDg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is difference: bnc vs. tnc connectors? |
Thank you.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Brown" <dan(at)familybrown.org>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What is difference: bnc vs. tnc connectors?
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> > From: LarryRobertHelming
>
> > assume it is BNC but there is also TNC. What is the diff or does
>
> BNC is a bayonet-type connector (twist-lock), while TNC is
threaded.
>
> - --
> Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna |
Related, but different -
I was planning on using the stock ant that came with the Garmin 196 (any
reason why I shouldn't?), and mounting it on the glare shield. Only
problem is the plug at the end is rather large, maybe 1/2" in diameter.
So I'll have to drill a big hole in the glare shield to pass it through.
Any way to avoid this? Disassemble? Splice? Something else?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 systems
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Brame [mailto:charleyb(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 1:16 PM
> To: Rick Galati; RV List
> Subject: RV-List: GPS Antenna
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charles Brame
>
> Rick,
>
> The GPS Antenna supplied with my UPS SL-60 measures 3.5" x
> 2.25" x .75" not counting the connector. The antenna sits
> flush on its mounting surface with the connector on the
> bottom of the antenna and extending through a hole in the
> mounting surface. The measurements above are for the mounted antenna.
>
> Suggestion: Go to the nearest model hobby shop and buy a
> large model airplane engine mount. The mount is plastic fiber
> and weighs about an ounce. Cost is probably less than $10.
> Install the mount on your firewall and bolt a piece of
> aluminum sheet (.032 or as desired) where the model engine
> would be installed. The aluminum sheet should be just wide
> enough to cover the model engine mounts and can be of
> whatever length you need to extend the antenna away from your
> firewall. The GPS antenna can be installed on the aluminum
> sheet. Quick, easy, lightweight and looks professional.
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> > From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: GPS Antenna
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I am going to mount a GPS antenna under the cowl onto a small shelf
> > fastened to the firewall. I do not have a GPS as yet. I
> need to know
> > the dimensions of your average panel mount GPS antenna in height,
> > length and width to insure that the shelf is fabricated to an
> > acceptable size. Thanks in advance for any suggestions as to the
> > proper surface area of a generic GPS antenna shelf mounted
> under the cowl.
> >
> > Rick Galati RV-6A FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna |
>
>Related, but different -
>
>I was planning on using the stock ant that came with the Garmin 196 (any
>reason why I shouldn't?), and mounting it on the glare shield. Only
>problem is the plug at the end is rather large, maybe 1/2" in diameter.
>So I'll have to drill a big hole in the glare shield to pass it through.
>Any way to avoid this? Disassemble? Splice? Something else?
Is the connector something nice like a BNC connector
like this . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58_Not5.jpg
or something else? If it's a BNC or other popular connector,
you could just cut it off and replace it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Coax Connector Frustration |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <tim(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject: RV-List: Coax Connector Frustration
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan"
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I began putting my crimp on coax connectors on and for the first 2 or 3 it
> went fine. Then I couldn't any longer crimp the tiny little pin end
without it breaking.
>
> I ran out of connectors so I ordered new ones from Van's only to find out
> the center pin is not big enough to fit over the stranded center conductor
> of the RG-58A/U coax. I ordered again this time from Chief aircraft where
> the originals came from. Once again they BARELY fit into the center but
> will fit. My 100. crimp tool I bought is causing the center pin crimp to
> break when I crimp it. I just ruined 3 more connectors at $ 5.95 each.
> What is the secret to this? Can't afford to keep buying connectors so 1 out
> of 3 or 4 will work.
Not all connectors and tools to install them are interchangeable.
BNC connectors come in a variety of configurations to accommodate
a variety of coax cables. . .
>
> My tool is the AMP Pro Crimper II with the special RG-58/RG-59 jaws in it
> and the male crimps I am using are also Amp. Both from Chief Aircraft.
. . . . then, it is possible that application tooling is tuned
to work best with connectors by the same manufacturer. Interchangeability
probability is better if the connectors and tools are built to the same
specs . . . but buying mil-spec connectors and tools can dramatically
affect the price.
We avoided these hassles with coax/tools/connectors offered on
the AeroElectric Connection website by making sure that the
materials we sold were all compatible with each other in spite
of their varied commercial pedigrees. I don't know that Van's
has anyone on board that is knowledgeable about such things.
Connectors don't need to cost that much. B&C sells the connectors
I used to have in packages of 6 for $10 at:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?23X358218
These work nicely with the $40 coax tool at:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218
to install on RG-400, RG-142 or RG-58 coax.
I am mystified by your early success followed by some failures.
Without examining your tool and it's compatibility with the
connectors, I'm at a loss to diagnose the problem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | spoofed e-mail address . . . |
This morning I received a bunch of bounced e-mail
messages supposedly mailed by me to a variety of
folks I do not know. For each one that bounced
due to bad or closed e-mail account, there have
to be lots of folks who did receive the message
and believe that originated with me.
A telling bit of text from the bounce notification
says that the email originated from a Microsoft
Outlook application.
This is but one reason why I use Eudora as a
e-mail client . . . known to but most often ignored
by those who craft mischievous programs.
I couldn't tell if the outgoing message carried
an attachment but thought I would offer this
heads-up to folks on the List. I VERY RARELY
send attachments via e-mail. I prefer to load
reference documents to my server and offer links
via e-mail for retrieval by your browser.
If anything shows up in your mailbox from me or
anyone else with an attachment that doesn't make
immediate and clear sense (like we've been having a
discussion and the message accompanying the attachment
described the data and what it's about), zap it away.
Further, the only attachments I ever send will end
in .pdf .jpg or .gif . . . NONE of which have
yet been crafted to carry malicious code.
I would like to believe everyone on the List has
a good virii-zapper and everyone is cautious about
unexpected attachments. Some PC somewhere is
doing it's damnedest to pretend that it lives
at my house. . . Given that some extra-ordinarily
ugly things are afoot on the 'net these days we
need to be sensitive to slightly out-of-the-ordinary
events . . . even when they look like they're from
somebody you would otherwise trust.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
I've just bought a large reel of RG-180 coax surplus. It's either the
biggest bargain I've ever found, or it's money down the drain.
Compared to RG-400, it's smaller, lighter, bends tighter and has more
attenuation - at 1 ghz and 100', it's 19.2 DB lost, vrs 14.1 for RG
400. The center core is 7 strands instead of 19. The rest of the specs are:
M17/95-RG180
Center Conductor.0120"(7/.004")SCCS
Dielectric .102" PTFE
Shield SPC
Jacket FEP
Diameter .141
Minimum Recommended Bend Radius 0.7
Temp. ( C) -55 +200
Weight (lbs./MFT) 19.8
M17/128-RG400
Center Conductor .0384"(19/.008")SC
Dielectric .116" PTFE
Shield SPC (2)
Jacket FEP
Diameter .195
Minimum Recommended Bend Radius 1.0
Temp. ( C) -55 +200
Weight (lbs./MFT) 50.0
Have I just bought myself a pile o'trouble, trying to find a crimp center
connector that will fit the smaller center conductor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny" <dennymortensen(at)cableone.net> |
I may be wrong on this but the only reference I can find to RG-180 shows it
as 95 ohms impedance. I think you will find that RG-400 is 52 ohms, the same
as RG-58. If I am correct I believe you have just purchased a nice cloths
line as it will not be good for use in your airplane. Also attenuation is
the same as loss IE the bigger the number the worse it is. An example of
this is 3db is the same as half the power. 10 watts in to the coax at the
radio would mean 5 watts showing up at the antenna 6 db loss would mean 2.5
at the antenna. It has been a few years since electronics class so I am a
bit rusty but I think you will have to find another batch of coax. Sorry for
the bad news but just tell the miss what a great deal you just got on a new
cloths line.
Denny
dennymortensen(at)cableone.net
Cozy #1145
Just Starting
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
richard(at)riley.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RG-180 Coax?
I've just bought a large reel of RG-180 coax surplus. It's either the
biggest bargain I've ever found, or it's money down the drain.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
I've just bought a large reel of RG-180 coax surplus. It's either the
biggest bargain I've ever found, or it's money down the drain.
Compared to RG-400, it's smaller, lighter, bends tighter and has more
attenuation - at 1 ghz and 100', it's 19.2 DB lost, vrs 14.1 for RG
400. The center core is 7 strands instead of 19. The rest of the specs
are:
M17/95-RG180
Center Conductor.0120"(7/.004")SCCS
Dielectric .102" PTFE
Shield SPC
Jacket FEP
Diameter .141
Minimum Recommended Bend Radius 0.7
Temp. ( C) -55 +200
Weight (lbs./MFT) 19.8
M17/128-RG400
Center Conductor .0384"(19/.008")SC
Dielectric .116" PTFE
Shield SPC (2)
Jacket FEP
Diameter .195
Minimum Recommended Bend Radius 1.0
Temp. ( C) -55 +200
Weight (lbs./MFT) 50.0
Have I just bought myself a pile o'trouble, trying to find a crimp center
connector that will fit the smaller center conductor?
Richard,
You may have a winner there, but have left off the most
important quality - the impedance. The ohmage built into the coaxial cable
by the dimensions chosen by the maker are what dictate its ability to
transfer the signal seamlessly to the antenna. This value is nominally
50ohms - just the way early coax was built, so is a usual standard and most
units and antennas are designed for 50. There are however many others - 70
for TV and entertainment, 90 for other uses, etc.
While you CAN transfer impedance from one value to another
electronically, it adds complexity, weight and cost to the project. I don't
know what FEP is for a jacket, but doubtless Bob will. The only other
necessary dimension is what connectors will fit the coax and match other
units.
Basically, most of us (unlike hams) use only 20 or 30 feet of
coax to connect to antennas, so saving a lot of money is not possible by
collaring industry or forces surplus. It's easier, not much more expensive
and almost as efficient to go with the flow (RG400 or 58). The hams play
around with impedance transfer because they are likely using 100ft or so and
they're pikers when it comes to laying out industry dollars. Saving $100 is
important, saving $2 on an aircraft can be a disaster.
The stewradesses used to ask. "When can you tell a captain is
cheap?". The answer is "when another one notices it".
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | GPS Antenna Ground Plane |
8/24/2003
Hello Fellow Builders, The instructions that I received with the antenna that
came with my Garmin GNS 430 said that a 15 inch diameter metal ground plane
should be installed under the antenna. This did not make much sense to me so I
called Garmin.
The tech told me that the large ground plane was not required. When I told
hiim where the antenna was going to be installed -- aft of the firewall inside
the fiberglass skin area between the firewall and the windshield he made a
suggestion. He suggested that some sort of metal sheilding be installed under
the
antenna. His reasoning was that there was a lot of electromagnetic garbage
that existed in that area from various engine and avionic sources and a metal
shield under the antenna would help diminish any adverse effects on the
antenna's performance from those sources.
I have mounted my GPS antenna on a small aluminum shelf suspended from the
underside of the fiberglass skin between the firewall and the windshield.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Use of mobile TV LCD monitor? |
Has anyone out there tried using one of the small monitors available for
portable DVD players as the display for cockpit information, either GPS
or instruments? The small screens, about 3x5", are less than $150. I
know resolution isn't that high, but a PDA is only 240x320.
Andy Elliott
N48DE/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ
"World's Fastest (Grumman) American"
http://members.cox.net/n48de/forsale/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna |
Yes, a standard BNC will fit. Good news.
What about this smaller wire? Its "RG174A/U MIL-C-17F". Will the same
tools I use for the BNC/RG400 work with this smaller wire?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
>
> -->
>
> >-->
> >
> >Related, but different -
> >
> >I was planning on using the stock ant that came with the Garmin 196
> >(any reason why I shouldn't?), and mounting it on the glare shield.
> >Only problem is the plug at the end is rather large, maybe 1/2" in
> >diameter. So I'll have to drill a big hole in the glare
> shield to pass
> >it through. Any way to avoid this? Disassemble? Splice? Something
> >else?
>
> Is the connector something nice like a BNC connector
> like this . . .
>
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58_Not5.jpg
or something else? If it's a BNC or other popular connector,
you could just cut it off and replace it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna |
>
>Yes, a standard BNC will fit. Good news.
>
>What about this smaller wire? Its "RG174A/U MIL-C-17F". Will the same
>tools I use for the BNC/RG400 work with this smaller wire?
No, not if you put your connector on "the right way" . . .
but try putting an RG-58/RG-400 connector on using technique
described in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58.html
and I think it will be just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna |
OK. So I'll use the existing RG174A/U MIL-C-17F, lop off the end, feed
it through the small hole in the glare screen, attached a BNC using the
technique outlined in the artcle below.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net]
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 1:14 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: RV-List: GPS Antenna
>
>
> -->
>
> >-->
> >
> >Yes, a standard BNC will fit. Good news.
> >
> >What about this smaller wire? Its "RG174A/U MIL-C-17F".
> Will the same
> >tools I use for the BNC/RG400 work with this smaller wire?
>
> No, not if you put your connector on "the right way" . . .
> but try putting an RG-58/RG-400 connector on using technique
> described in http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/RG58/RG58.html
> and I think it will be just fine.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | RE: RG-180 Coax? |
Fergus, you're right on the impedence mismatch. It's
90, vrs 50 for RG400. It was only $50, so no great
loss.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frederic Livesey <fred.livesey(at)zetnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Transient suppression |
Hi, having just purchased a evaluation board for the Motorola Oncore 12+
GPS unit ( hoping to make Moving Map System) I find in the instructions
the following:- The low cost Evaluation Board is NOT DESIGNED to be
plugged directly into an automotive electrical system for power.
Automotive systems are extremely noisy(spikes,transients, etc)and the
evaluation board is not fitted with the requisite transient suppression
circuitry. It will most likely work for a while, but operation under
these conditions is not recommended.
When running the board on a 12volt power supply the 5 volt regulator
gets rather warm so I intend to make a separate power supply using the
LM 317 regulator (adjustable) anyone have any ideas how to include the
transient suppression circuitry or is this another of those magic tales
Bob
Regards
Fred
Chester
UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | threaded BNC on GPS antenna? |
Whoa...I just started messing around with crimping BNC connectors for my
antenna wires. Working great.
But then I took a closer look at my GPS antenna, an "AeroAntenna Technology,
Inc." AT575 antenna (http://www.aeroantenna.com/html/aviation.html) that
came with my GX60. Lo and behold it sports a *threaded* TNCF connector.
What the...?
Is this typical among GPS antennas? Can anybody recommend a P/N for
crimp-on connector for RG-400?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: threaded BNC on GPS antenna? |
| From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
> Is this typical among GPS antennas? Can anybody recommend a P/N for
> crimp-on connector for RG-400?
Dan, look carefully in your GX60 stuff. My GX65 included an Amphenol
79875 connector. The Amphenol documentation lists two RG400 TNC
connectors, the 79875 (clamp) and the 31-4452 (crimp) per this document:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/CatalogPages/tnc_catalog.pdf
Digi-Key:
79875 $17.35 yikes!
Mouser:
79875 $9.23
31-4452 $8.75
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: threaded BNC on GPS antenna? |
Nevermind (sort of)...looks like the AMP 31-2373 (Mouser 523-31-2373, at
$5.71 it's $2 cheaper than Digikey) will do the trick. Please let me know
if there's any reason I shouldn't go ahead and order this...
Thanks,
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: threaded BNC on GPS antenna?
>
> Whoa...I just started messing around with crimping BNC connectors for my
> antenna wires. Working great.
>
> But then I took a closer look at my GPS antenna, an "AeroAntenna
Technology,
> Inc." AT575 antenna (http://www.aeroantenna.com/html/aviation.html) that
> came with my GX60. Lo and behold it sports a *threaded* TNCF connector.
> What the...?
>
> Is this typical among GPS antennas? Can anybody recommend a P/N for
> crimp-on connector for RG-400?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
Fergus, you're right, it's a different impedance, 90 vrs 50 for RG400. Ah,
well, it was only $35.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
Larry,
If you are installing a Garmin 430 I suggest getting top of the line antenna
lead-in and connectors. I just installed the antenna on my Garmin GNS 530. I
purchased Coaxial cable (part number RG-142 Coax) and Amphenol RFX BNC
connectors (part number 31-2-RFX) from Gulf Coast Avionics. 800-474-9714 or
www.gulf-coast-avionics.com.
This BNC connector is a male connector which fits the Garmin as well as Van's
antennas. The feature which I like is that it requires no crimping (no need
for a questionable crimping tool). A tiny male tip gets soldered to the
internal wire. Then you just assemble the parts and screw the connector together.
If the instructions on the Amphenol package are not clear, just let me know.
The antenna cable I am suggesting is a little costly at $4.00 a foot. I just
don't think it is wise to install an expensive Garmin 430 and then try to
save $10 on cheap antenna lead-in and connectors. IMHO.
Pete
RV-6, panel
N216PH reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transient suppression |
>
>
>Hi, having just purchased a evaluation board for the Motorola Oncore 12+
>GPS unit ( hoping to make Moving Map System) I find in the instructions
>the following:- The low cost Evaluation Board is NOT DESIGNED to be
>plugged directly into an automotive electrical system for power.
>Automotive systems are extremely noisy(spikes,transients, etc)and the
>evaluation board is not fitted with the requisite transient suppression
>circuitry. It will most likely work for a while, but operation under
>these conditions is not recommended.
> When running the board on a 12volt power supply the 5 volt regulator
>gets rather warm so I intend to make a separate power supply using the
>LM 317 regulator (adjustable) anyone have any ideas how to include the
>transient suppression circuitry or is this another of those magic tales
>Bob
>Regards
>Fred
>Chester
>UK
Take a peek at http://216.55.140.222/temp/Power_Cond.gif
This circuit was shared with another reader wanting to put
a good firewall between his 5v powered microcontrollers and
the little dragons that live on the 28v bus of his airplane . . .
in particular, he wanted an input power conditioning circuit
that would pass DO-160.
In his case, he also wanted backup battery support that would
disconnect automatically if bus power was available.
In a nutshell, here's how the parts work. The LM7805 fixed
regulator (and even LM317 in the high voltage versions)
wouldn't stand off 80v surge. In your case, you're looking
for 40v parts which IS possible at the integrated circuit
level. None the less, for small current draws (less than
a couple hundred mils) I usually include a zener/capacitor
paralleled across the input to the 3-terminal regulator
and a healthy source-limiting resistor upstream.
The notion is that none of the expected short transients will
push past the capacitor, none of the long ones will push past
the zener. The 3-terminal regulator can be depended on for
voltage regulation and noise reduction (what it does best)
without having to stand off full DO-160 stress levels. I'm
pretty sure this philosophy will work well for your application
too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BNC Connector |
Thanks for the good advice. I appreciate it.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: <PeterHunt1(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: BNC Connector
>
> Larry,
>
> If you are installing a Garmin 430 I suggest getting top of the line
antenna
> lead-in and connectors. I just installed the antenna on my Garmin GNS
530. I
> purchased Coaxial cable (part number RG-142 Coax) and Amphenol RFX BNC
> connectors (part number 31-2-RFX) from Gulf Coast Avionics. 800-474-9714
or
> www.gulf-coast-avionics.com.
>
> This BNC connector is a male connector which fits the Garmin as well as
Van's
> antennas. The feature which I like is that it requires no crimping (no
need
> for a questionable crimping tool). A tiny male tip gets soldered to the
> internal wire. Then you just assemble the parts and screw the connector
together.
> If the instructions on the Amphenol package are not clear, just let me
know.
> The antenna cable I am suggesting is a little costly at $4.00 a foot. I
just
> don't think it is wise to install an expensive Garmin 430 and then try to
> save $10 on cheap antenna lead-in and connectors. IMHO.
>
> Pete
> RV-6, panel
> N216PH reserved
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | MOSFET potting/off topic |
This is an off topic question, but once again the members of this list are
the most knowlegeable
people I know in the spark chasing department.
My Old BMW 88 735..250k miles..car uses a large resistance heat sink,
called a Sword, by those that know what I'm referring to, to regulate the
fan blower speed for the HVAC. Here is a photo as my verbal explanation
leaves a little to the imagination .
http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Sword.htm
It is about 12" long, and the main heat sink is a piece of 1/8" x 4" x 12"
aluminum plate that hangs out there in the breeze of the HVAC main
duct. On it is mounted an equally long PCB, and every 4" is a BUZ71a
Mosfet. They are rumored to be the failure mode ( and the sword seems
die regularly to the tune of $200 for the complete assembly, which has
gotten old after the third one died) and the blower will only run one speed
or not at all. The Mosfets bases ground to the plate, and feed from the
PCB. The bases are riveted to the aluminum plate. They are heavily potted
in some type of glue(epoxy?).
I have been able to remove the potting from them with a heat gun, and
remove the Mosfets, and order more ($10.00 for twice as many as I need, I
have an old core I'm working on as well as the latest failed one)
My question: both sides of the mosfet are heavily gunked with this potting,
all around the device, and also on the back of the pcb where the leads
solder in.
What does the potting do..the devices are also riveted in so it isn't
structural. Is it a moisture concern? I think they must get hot, hence the
mounting to the air cooled plate, but the heat gun will soften the potting,
so I assume they don't get real hot.
Can I use Marine tex, or structural Urethane, or 5 minute epoxy to repair
this? Hot Melt Glue? Is there a real product I should buy? Is it
important to totally encapsulate the mosfet and leads? That seems to be
the case with the original. The repair procedure seems to ignore repotting.
Thanks for the help, and I realize that I'm off topic..but I do drive it to
the airport a lot to fly the Viking, and the BMW symbol is a spinning
propeller on a blue background....
Dave Leonard, a man with a lot of old electronic junk...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | MOSFET Off Topic |
Dave,
It depends on how much re-engineering you want to do.
The BUZ71a is a good part for its time. There are better ones available, but
it will do.
Can you get a schematic of the thing? This would help a lot.
>both sides of the mosfet are heavily gunked with this potting,
>all around the device, and also on the back of the pcb where the leads
>solder in.
>What does the potting do..the devices are also riveted in so it isn't
>structural. Is it a moisture concern? I think they must get hot, hence the
>mounting to the air cooled plate, but the heat gun will soften the potting,
>so I assume they don't get real hot.
Answer to the potting question--The potting keeps people from fixing it, but
also keeps out moisture. The MOSFET is very prone to moisture problems
because of the very sensitive gate lead. There are silicones that are pretty
easy to remove. Just make sure they are thoroughly dry before first using
the device. Any potting will do.
Now for the problem. These things should not fail. Some hints and tips---
The blower motor at 250k miles is probably worn out. The motor current may
have
gone way up (check this). Of course you could put in a bigger MOSFET but you
might want to service or replace the motor.
The BUZ71a tab should be common to the center pin on the TO220. This is the
drain pin and it must be positive. This make me think the heatsink must be
V+. Is this true? Then be careful that it must remain insulated.
The MOSFET gate gets a positive voltage (<20V) from the switch to turn it
on. The gate voltage CAN'T go higher, not even for a microsecond!
MOSFETs are prone to failure from both high voltages and electrostatics
and arcing (from old switch contacts maybe?). A simple input filter to the
gate will prevent that. This filter could consist of a couple of 10V zeners
one to + and one to ground, or even a ceramic cap to ground.
The MOSFET is probably a "high-side" switch. This means that there is some
Voltage boosting circuitry driving the gate. This is always suspect
circuitry. Capacitors degrade, parts change values...
If there is some errant voltage spike from source to drain (again possible
in an old BMW) a zener diode (20 V) across the drain to source will help.
The MOSFET itself actually has one of these in it maybe it could use some
help.
You could replace the MOSFET with a MUCH beefier device and cross your
fingers that nothing downstream will fail instead. The values to look for
are:
Vdss > 60V
Rdson<0.010 Ohms
N-channel
TO-220
There is reason to suspect this may be the best way to go. My experience
both with MOSFETs and German engineers is that they don't leave any margins.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
- - Leonard Cohen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | MOSFET OFF TOPIC |
David,
Buy these on eBay cheap:
12) IRF3710Z Power MOSFETS 100 Volts, 59 Amps Item number: 2553456836
They will do the trick.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unstable charging system . . . |
I subscribed to the aeroelectric section and RV6 information
on Matromics. My problem with my charging system is that while
it is charging my Amp gauge rapidly deflects to the "charge" side,
and the volt meter roams around from 14.2 to 15.0 constantly.
The battery is six months old and checks out good, the voltage
regulator (ford type) checks good, and the alternator (Japanese
type) just had new bearing and brushes installed and the diodes
were good. I checked the wiring, and everything looks and tests
good. The Amp gauge is a two terminal type and one suggestion
was to get rid of that type.
Ammeters don't "go bad" and cause this. If the system
worked before, something else is going on.
. . . . The system has 648hrs. on it now
and started this several months ago, or at least the Bouncing
Amp meter. Any ideas?
Any time the ammeter and/or voltmeter jumps around even
though major components of the system checks good suggests
a wiring and/or grounding problem. Regulators can
become unstable if there is too much wiring and component
resistance between the regulator and the bus . . . and
we're talking about MILLIOHMS . . .
Try hooking your regulator right up to the back of the
alternator with lead wires of 12" or so. Ground case
of regulator to case of alternator, connect the "S" and
"A" terminals together and wire them to the alternator's
fat terminal (b-lead). Connect regulator "F" terminal
of regulator to field of alternator.
Fire up engine and see what happens. I'll bet your
voltage settles out between 14.0 and 14.4 volts and
the ammeter will stop thrashing around.
Are you using a single point ground system? How long
and what size wires are used to connect "A" and "S"
of regulator to the bus. How are you protecting the
system for OV conditions?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starters and solenoids |
Rich,
Denis Walsh sent me 4 solenoids which were removed
from service on his Sky-Tec starter. I've not had
time to examine them closely but the solenoid core
of one was detached such that it could be removed.
The bore in which these cores operate seem to be
lined with brass sleeves. The sleeve is fabricated
from sheet material. I peeled a corner away from
the bore wall and measured a thickness of 0.015"
Pushing the cores in by hand while applying pressure
and bending moments. I was unable to sense any
tendency to hang up.
I understood your earlier post to the AeroElectric-List
to describe vibration induced damage pattern to a plastic
wall which would occasionally prevent full travel
of the solenoid core.
Perhaps my mental image of what you described is
in error. Can you help me out here?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Wire runs/clamps. |
A couple quick questions:
I'm looking (finally) at running some wire out to the back end of my RV-6
before I rivet the aft top skins on. I drilled some holes in the bulkheads
and Van's supplies lots of grommets which I installed. The dilemma I have
now is how to secure that wire. For the tefzel wire we use, what should I
use to secure it, adel clamps, zip ties or what? How would I fasten those
clamps along the floor of the airplane, don't want to drill a hole in the
skin, double sided tape likely won't stick to the primer or at least stay on
so.. any suggestions? Also how often should I secure the wire, every 3
inches every 6 inches, every foot, what? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A finish kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil |
| Subject: | Bad news at aerolearn.com |
The last couple days I attempted to access the online campus at aerolearn.com,
I received an "Internal Server Error" and when I e-mailed the webmaster, my e-mail
"bounced".
This was an outstanding aviation maintenance training resource and I hope that
whatever problems they are having, that they are resolved quickly, and this incredibly
valuable asset doesn't go away, permanently.
Drew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Bernard" <billbernard(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Starter Contactor Mounting |
I've got the starter contactor mounted on the firewall. It is what Bob calls a
"Type I", nounted with the cap up. One of the airport crowd came by and suggested
that it should be mounted 'upside down'. The idea apparently is that gravity
will assist the spring in breaking contact and helping prevent starter engagement
after the engine is running.
I've used this contactor for 18syears in this position and don't think this is
a concern. I've seen them mounted both ways and wonder if there is a preferred
way.
Also, is it possible to add a "starter engaged" light (probably be an LED) powered
by a small wire on the terminal running to the starter? Or will the high current
fry a piece of 22 AWG wire in that location? The particular contactor has
three terminals.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lonnie Benson" <lonben(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad news at aerolearn.com |
Drew,
I was able to access the site with no problem. Interesting site. Thanks
for the lead.
Lonnie
Murphy Rebel
Ready to start my panel
----- Original Message -----
From: <drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bad news at aerolearn.com
>
> The last couple days I attempted to access the online campus at
aerolearn.com, I received an "Internal Server Error" and when I e-mailed the
webmaster, my e-mail "bounced".
>
> This was an outstanding aviation maintenance training resource and I hope
that whatever problems they are having, that they are resolved quickly, and
this incredibly valuable asset doesn't go away, permanently.
>
> Drew
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unstable charging system . . . |
Some answers to your final questions. I am using a single
point ground system where my ground bus behind the panel
has a lead to the single point on the motor mount. A to
S is a short wire with a capacitor included for noise
reduction, and then it is about 20 inches to the bus.
The size of the wire would be a guess. I have no OV protection.
Also the wires from the voltage regulator go through the fire
wall with several other wires from the engine compartment to
include the senders for CHT EGT, the alternator, and those
ground leads from the bus to the motor mount. Also wires
from oil pressure and temp. travel through the one opening.
Okay, let's try the experiment I described and
see how it behaves.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator |
Todd, I am not a phone type person. I like things in writing. I think your
company would sell 10 times as many products if you allowed your customers
to get to the facts and not have to wait on and tie up your engineer's time.
That is not a good business approach in my opinion having to answer routine
customer's questions one on one. Why not answer them once and put it there
for anyone to get to when their time allows?
I guess I will be doing business some place else for a regulator. Thanks.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: Orders
To: LarryRobertHelming
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator
Larry,
The best thing is to call and ask for Tim, our Electrical Engineer. Tim
will be in a meeting today starting at 9:45, I would estimate the meeting
lasting until around 1:00.
Tim can best explain the workings of the LR3C-14 regulator.
Thanks,
Todd Koerner
B&C Specialty Products
www.bandc.biz
----- Original Message -----
From: LarryRobertHelming
To: sales(at)bandcspecialty.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:44 AM
Subject: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator
I need more information than I seem to be able to find on your web site
about the captioned product. I need to know what it does exactly and what
is required to make it work. Thanks.
lhelming(at)sigecom.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Contactor Mounting |
>
>
>I've got the starter contactor mounted on the firewall. It is what Bob
>calls a "Type I", nounted with the cap up. One of the airport crowd came
>by and suggested that it should be mounted 'upside down'. The idea
>apparently is that gravity will assist the spring in breaking contact and
>helping prevent starter engagement after the engine is running.
Ol' mechanic's tale that's been fertilized too
much for decades . . .
>I've used this contactor for 18syears in this position and don't think
>this is a concern. I've seen them mounted both ways and wonder if there is
>a preferred way.
Nope . . . but be aware that this style contactor
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/s701-1l.jpg
is increasingly difficult to find in a high-pressure,
intermittent-duty style best suited for starter
contactor service.
If you're using continuous duty versions of this
contactor -AND- in light of exemplar service experience,
there's no pressing reason to change from what you've
been doing.
However, the continuous duty contactors used in
this position are more likely to stick or weld
shut . . . this has nothing to do with direction
of gravity.
If you ever stick this contactor, you might consider
replacing with this intermittent duty style:
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/s702-1l.jpg
which is about as bullet-proof a starter contactor
as you can buy.
>Also, is it possible to add a "starter engaged" light (probably be an LED)
>powered by a small wire on the terminal running to the starter? Or will
>the high current fry a piece of 22 AWG wire in that location? The
>particular contactor has three terminals.
Sure. If you want to use an LED, you'll need to
put a resistor in series with it. Mount this
resistor AT THE CONTACTOR end of the wire. This
impedance jump at the source end will protect the
wire. Also, put a diode in parallel with the
LED with banded end (cathode) of diode tied
to plus side (anode) of LED. LED's are relatively
robust for forward transient currents but rather
fragile for reverse transients. The diode (1N4005
or similar) combined with your 330 ohm resistor
at the feed-end of the wire will protect the
LED.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire runs/clamps. |
Hi Dean-
An alternate method that has several advantages is using PVC or CPVC pipe. A 1/2"
run to
the tail will carry all you'll need back there, is easy to run through the bulkheads,
and
is very easy to run wires through & add more later, if desired. I ran one piece
along
the right side close to the bottom skins from just aft of the spar to just aft
of the 606
BH, then another one from just behind this to just in front of the 610 BH, which
has a
rubber grommet through it. I just fished my trim servo cable through it and took
maybe 2
minutes. Same thing for the wings but I used 5/8" there...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
> A couple quick questions:
>
> I'm looking (finally) at running some wire out to the back end of my RV-6
> before I rivet the aft top skins on. I drilled some holes in the bulkheads
> and Van's supplies lots of grommets which I installed. The dilemma I have
> now is how to secure that wire. For the tefzel wire we use, what should I
> use to secure it, adel clamps, zip ties or what? How would I fasten those
> clamps along the floor of the airplane, don't want to drill a hole in the
> skin, double sided tape likely won't stick to the primer or at least stay on
> so.. any suggestions? Also how often should I secure the wire, every 3
> inches every 6 inches, every foot, what? Thanks.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A finish kit.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator |
>
>
>Todd, I am not a phone type person. I like things in writing. I think your
>company would sell 10 times as many products if you allowed your customers
>to get to the facts and not have to wait on and tie up your engineer's time.
>That is not a good business approach in my opinion having to answer routine
>customer's questions one on one. Why not answer them once and put it there
>for anyone to get to when their time allows?
>
>I guess I will be doing business some place else for a regulator. Thanks.
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>On Finish Kit
Larry,
Not sure why you posted this to the AeroElectric-List . . . but
permit me to offer some observations:
There are very few places that offer airplane parts where
sales personnel can offer in-depth technical details about
their products. If you called Raytheon waving a credit card
to buy a new $500,000 Bonanza, it COULD take some time
to put you in touch with a person who is able to accurately
inform you about some detail of the airplane's construction.
This is why B&C, the AeroElectric Connection, and most
other capable suppliers will publish as many details as
practical to assist customers in their purchasing decisions.
B&C publishes detailed installation data on their website,
as do we. When customer queries reveal some shortfall
in the information supplied, the documents are revised
to fill in the gap. After a time, un-resolved
questions fade away and we consider our data publishing
task relatively complete.
If you have a question about the LR-3, and given that you're
a subscriber to the AeroElectric-List, why not post the
question there first? I designed that regulator. Dozens
of current users of that LR-3 regulators are subscribers also.
You say you like to have things in writing . . . very
well. There are articles and books on aeroelectric.com
that discuss the functionality and use of regulators,
ov protection, low voltage warning irrespective of
who's components you ultimately choose to incorporate
into your airplane. Looking at LR3 installation diagram
alone tells you a great deal about what the device
does and "what's needed to make it work".
I'm sorry you're upset with your experience. Please
consider the fact that data published on B&C's
products to date has not needed revision for several
years. Further, it has supported the satisfactory sale and
installation of thousands of LR3 regulators.
Are you suggesting that 90% of B&C's potential
sales are going somewhere else because published
data falls short of their expectations? If you
perceive a shortfall in published data, I'm sure
they'd be pleased to consider an expansion.
If you'd care to post your questions about the LR3
to the list, I and numerous others would be pleased
to assist with the answers in any way we can.
Bob . . .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Orders
> To: LarryRobertHelming
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator
>
>
> Larry,
> The best thing is to call and ask for Tim, our Electrical Engineer. Tim
>will be in a meeting today starting at 9:45, I would estimate the meeting
>lasting until around 1:00.
> Tim can best explain the workings of the LR3C-14 regulator.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd Koerner
> B&C Specialty Products
> www.bandc.biz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LarryRobertHelming
> To: sales(at)bandcspecialty.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:44 AM
> Subject: LR3C-14 Voltage Regulator
>
>
> I need more information than I seem to be able to find on your web site
>about the captioned product. I need to know what it does exactly and what
>is required to make it work. Thanks.
>
> lhelming(at)sigecom.net
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire runs/clamps. |
I will second that advice. I used some 1/2" hard poly tubing and drilled
(Unibit) snug fitting holes through the various bulkheads and eased the
tubing through. I didn't bother with any extra grommets or anything as the
tubing will be adequate protection for the wiring for the first 5,000 hours
or so.
The obvious point is that this is much, much easier if done before putting
the aft top skin on.
Some thought should go into the fwd and aft termination points. I used a
terminal block under the seats pans and just hard wired with splices at the
aft end to the tail light wires and such on the argument that these will
rarely be removed. Allow a few inches of slack for future splicing jobs and
you should be good for quite a few removals. There is not a lot of room back
there when the tail is on, so allow lots of slack and keep the tubing exit
point high. Also no need to worry about straight runs, the wires will feed
through any reasonable curve just fine.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire runs/clamps.
>
> Hi Dean-
>
> An alternate method that has several advantages is using PVC or CPVC pipe.
A 1/2" run to
> the tail will carry all you'll need back there, is easy to run through the
bulkheads, and
> is very easy to run wires through & add more later, if desired. I ran one
piece along
> the right side close to the bottom skins from just aft of the spar to just
aft of the 606
> BH, then another one from just behind this to just in front of the 610 BH,
which has a
> rubber grommet through it. I just fished my trim servo cable through it
and took maybe 2
> minutes. Same thing for the wings but I used 5/8" there...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
> Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
> >
> > A couple quick questions:
> >
> > I'm looking (finally) at running some wire out to the back end of my
RV-6
> > before I rivet the aft top skins on. I drilled some holes in the
bulkheads
> > and Van's supplies lots of grommets which I installed. The dilemma I
have
> > now is how to secure that wire. For the tefzel wire we use, what should
I
> > use to secure it, adel clamps, zip ties or what? How would I fasten
those
> > clamps along the floor of the airplane, don't want to drill a hole in
the
> > skin, double sided tape likely won't stick to the primer or at least
stay on
> > so.. any suggestions? Also how often should I secure the wire, every 3
> > inches every 6 inches, every foot, what? Thanks.
> >
> > Dean Psiropoulos
> >
> > RV-6A finish kit.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Bob,
I appreciate your answering many of the general (and sometimes
repetitive) questions with regard to wiring standards and acceptable
methods. My machine is a composite (glass + some foam) structure. I have
drilled several galleries through the control and fiselage structures of
about 3/16" diameter for future channeling of accessory units. I also
contemplated using heatshrink tubing as guide for installing long runs from
extremity to fuselage centre - it is light, will not likely encounter
shrinkworthy temps, and is easily fixed into place with epoxy (I am
fortunate to have long runs available).
However, once these break out into the open fuselage bewhind the
cockpit I should have a regularly-spaced method of fixing to the structure.
Can I just spot-epoxy the tubing at say 9inch intervals - or is there a
superior standard to which I should adhere?
I would not nromally ask a personal boon but it occurred that it
may be of interest to others of the same persuasion.............
Regards, Ferg
Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cary rhodes <rhodeseng(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | re: wire runs/clamps |
I just used some spiral wrap around the bundle and
didn't attach it to anything.
Other than thru the grommets in the bulkheads.
Seems to lay along the bottom skin nicely.
cary
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Chiappe" <richc(at)skytecair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starters and solenoids |
Bob et al:
> Denis Walsh sent me 4 solenoids which were removed from service on his
Sky-Tec starter.
Dennis called me and we had a good discussion. A very honorable man whose
business I appreciate. One thing Dennis did share with me though was that
the first 3 solenoids replaced on his starter did not come from Sky-Tec. It
turns out he was able to purchase substitute product from his local auto
parts store and make the repairs himself so as it turns out, Sky-Tec cannot
account for the quality of those solenoids. I think he was planning on
sending you only Sky-Tec solenoids, but I cannot confirm this. I also
clarified a misunderstanding (I think successfully) in explaining that
Sky-Tec had, in fact recut (or replaced) his starter's mount to include the
new machining for improved solenoid performance though we failed to
communicate such at the time.
> I've not had time to examine them closely but the solenoid core of one was
detached such that it could be removed.
> The bore in which these cores operate seem to be lined with brass sleeves.
The sleeve is fabricated from sheet material.
> I peeled a corner away from the bore wall...
Let me save some time/effort: because that's not where the vibration issue
presents itself.
Cut away the rear end of the solenoid as shown in the attached photograph
and note 'pitting' to the black insulator around the "T" of the plunger
contactor as it sits in its just-held-off-rested position.
Without any cutting you can also simply detect the pitting by rotating the
plunger (on any of the units that have not separated) and begin to push the
plunger in. Within 1/16" or so of 'rest position', you may detect a 'notch'.
If you do not detect the notch, then consider yourself among the 25,000 or
so Sky-Tec LS/PM starter customers that doesn't have a vibration/solenoid
pitting issue. If you detect the notch, then your starter was in a unique
environment that allowed the solenoid to vibrate to a greater degree than we
had originally designed the starter to withstand. We will gladly replace
the notched solenoid and modify (or replace) your starter's mount with one
which should eliminate any future pitting (investing in a dynamic prop
balancing would help ensure so). But please ensure it is one of our factory
original solenoids (please do not repair yours in the field with automotive
solenoids - to say the least, quality is not consistent in the automotive
supply industry).
I hope this helps!
My thanks to those of you who continue to be so supportive of our products
and responsive to Sky-Tec's service.
If I can be of service, please don't hesitate to give me a call.
Sincerely,
- Rich Chiappe
Sky-Tec
350 Howard Clemons Rd
Granbury, Texas 76048
(800) 476-7896
richc(at)skytecair.com
www.skytecair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires |
>
>Bob,
> I appreciate your answering many of the general (and sometimes
>repetitive) questions with regard to wiring standards and acceptable
>methods. My machine is a composite (glass + some foam) structure. I have
>drilled several galleries through the control and fiselage structures of
>about 3/16" diameter for future channeling of accessory units. I also
>contemplated using heatshrink tubing as guide for installing long runs from
>extremity to fuselage centre - it is light, will not likely encounter
>shrinkworthy temps, and is easily fixed into place with epoxy (I am
>fortunate to have long runs available).
> However, once these break out into the open fuselage bewhind the
>cockpit I should have a regularly-spaced method of fixing to the structure.
>Can I just spot-epoxy the tubing at say 9inch intervals - or is there a
>superior standard to which I should adhere?
There's probably lots of ways to do this. Many have run various
tubing (nylaflow is one of my favorites) along a wire path and
stuck it down with periodic "x" strips of glass tape
and expoxy.
I'm working on a supply of bond studs that can be stuck to
any handy surface to provide a moderately structural support
for Adel clamps that in turn can anchor any kind of tube
(fluid or wiring conduit) or the wire bundle itself.
See:
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg
If I can get these parts in any reasonable quantity
to justify cataloging them and at a price attractive
to the builders, I'll be putting them up on my website.
The target pricing is $1.50 each / $10/dozen.
I'm doing some tests right now using BJ Weld as the
adhesive . . . and have some others planned using
an acrylic, solvent based adhesive too.
I'm quite confident of the epoxy based installation
technique but will have to see about the glue.
> I would not nromally ask a personal boon but it occurred that it
>may be of interest to others of the same persuasion.............
No problem. I've been fielding a number of inquiries
on this topic.
Back in the good ol' days, we'd flush-rivet an attach
bracket to the surface and use it to bolt on an Adel
clamp. I've also seen builders use Rivnuts on their
inside skin of a glass/foam structure . . . but a GOOD Rivnut
is a marginal performer in aluminum sheet and soggy
in glass sheet. Drop down to commercial aluminum Rivnuts
and you might as well stick it down with bubble gum.
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RG58/AU vs /CU |
>Bob,
>
>What operational difference is there between RG 58 AU and RG 58 CU
>coax. Before I bought the Aeroelectric Connection, I glassed in at
>intervals a length of RG 58 CU for my vor localizer feed line. It would
>be a real pain to remove the CU and replace it with AU.
Don't worry about it. There's no performance difference.
If you ever run in any new coax in the future,
consider RG400 or RG142.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Narco VOR Receiver Problem |
I have a friend who has a really nice RV6 that is having a problem receiving
VOR signals properly.
It is a Narco MK12D+ with Shark IN443A indicator and separate glideslope
receiver.
The problem is, the indicator works correctly when flying a localizer. But
no matter whether far or close to a VOR antenna, the CDI just indicates all
over the place. When testing with a VOR test set, it works correctly, but
when at a VOT, it does not work.
He has replaced the antenna and all cabling. The avionics tech says it
works correctly using the test set (but it only transmits 0 and 180 degree
radials).
Has anybody seen this before?
Ronnie Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec Starter Solenoids |
The problem as described in earlier posts with solenoid failures sounds just
like my problem - EXCEPT my starter was new (or rather it was made in 1999
and my Velocity's engine wasn't started until this year). On the 2nd start
of the engine, the solenoid clicked and nothing happened. After waiting a
couple of minutes, it worked. For the first 40 hours, my starter was
sporadic - some times it worked - sometimes it didn't. Didn't seem to matter
if it was cold or hot.
After calling Skytec, the technician said it sounded like my engine was out
of balance - and described the vibration damage problem with their
solenoids - great - but my engine and starter were new. He sent me a new
solenoid free of charge and asked for my old one back.
The new solenoid has worked perfectly (40 hours).
Ronnie Brown
| ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
|
|
| From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sky-Tec starters and solenoids
|
|
| Rich,
|
| Denis Walsh sent me 4 solenoids which were removed
| from service on his Sky-Tec starter. I've not had
| time to examine them closely but the solenoid core
| of one was detached such that it could be removed.
|
| The bore in which these cores operate seem to be
| lined with brass sleeves. The sleeve is fabricated
| from sheet material. I peeled a corner away from
| the bore wall and measured a thickness of 0.015"
|
| Pushing the cores in by hand while applying pressure
| and bending moments. I was unable to sense any
| tendency to hang up.
|
| I understood your earlier post to the AeroElectric-List
| to describe vibration induced damage pattern to a plastic
| wall which would occasionally prevent full travel
| of the solenoid core.
|
| Perhaps my mental image of what you described is
| in error. Can you help me out here?
|
|
| Bob . . .
|
|
| --------------------------------------------
| ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
| ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
| ( and still understand nothing. )
| ( C.F. Kettering )
| --------------------------------------------
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires |
Why not insert a screw through a countersunk piece of scrap fiberglass
layup, and bond it with epoxy to the fuselage wall. Screw is captured
between 1" square fiberglass and wall of fuselage.
Bill schertz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Routing wires
>
> >
> >Bob,
> > I appreciate your answering many of the general (and
sometimes
> >repetitive) questions with regard to wiring standards and acceptable
> >methods. My machine is a composite (glass + some foam) structure. I have
> >drilled several galleries through the control and fiselage structures of
> >about 3/16" diameter for future channeling of accessory units. I also
> >contemplated using heatshrink tubing as guide for installing long runs
from
> >extremity to fuselage centre - it is light, will not likely encounter
> >shrinkworthy temps, and is easily fixed into place with epoxy (I am
> >fortunate to have long runs available).
> > However, once these break out into the open fuselage bewhind
the
> >cockpit I should have a regularly-spaced method of fixing to the
structure.
> >Can I just spot-epoxy the tubing at say 9inch intervals - or is there a
> >superior standard to which I should adhere?
>
> There's probably lots of ways to do this. Many have run various
> tubing (nylaflow is one of my favorites) along a wire path and
> stuck it down with periodic "x" strips of glass tape
> and expoxy.
>
> I'm working on a supply of bond studs that can be stuck to
> any handy surface to provide a moderately structural support
> for Adel clamps that in turn can anchor any kind of tube
> (fluid or wiring conduit) or the wire bundle itself.
>
> See:
>
> http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg
> http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg
>
> If I can get these parts in any reasonable quantity
> to justify cataloging them and at a price attractive
> to the builders, I'll be putting them up on my website.
>
> The target pricing is $1.50 each / $10/dozen.
>
> I'm doing some tests right now using BJ Weld as the
> adhesive . . . and have some others planned using
> an acrylic, solvent based adhesive too.
>
> I'm quite confident of the epoxy based installation
> technique but will have to see about the glue.
>
> > I would not nromally ask a personal boon but it occurred
that it
> >may be of interest to others of the same persuasion.............
>
> No problem. I've been fielding a number of inquiries
> on this topic.
>
> Back in the good ol' days, we'd flush-rivet an attach
> bracket to the surface and use it to bolt on an Adel
> clamp. I've also seen builders use Rivnuts on their
> inside skin of a glass/foam structure . . . but a GOOD Rivnut
> is a marginal performer in aluminum sheet and soggy
> in glass sheet. Drop down to commercial aluminum Rivnuts
> and you might as well stick it down with bubble gum.
>
> Watch this space . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires |
>
> > I'm working on a supply of bond studs that can be stuck to
> > any handy surface to provide a moderately structural support
> > for Adel clamps that in turn can anchor any kind of tube
> > (fluid or wiring conduit) or the wire bundle itself.
> >
> > See:
> >
> > http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg
> > http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg
> >
> > If I can get these parts in any reasonable quantity
> > to justify cataloging them and at a price attractive
> > to the builders, I'll be putting them up on my website.
> >
> > The target pricing is $1.50 each / $10/dozen.
>
>Bob...lemme know if and when I can send you a check!
The parts stash is somewhere in what appears to be
a great pile of trash in a surplus dealers "warehouse".
I stumbled on a couple of them years ago and thought
they would be useful in another project . . . never did
put them to use but they lay around in my "20-year Can"
of very assorted but sometimes useful hardware.
Ran across them in the shop while getting everything
out for putting in a new concrete floor and decided
to resurrect the search for a good application. I have
no idea what they were originally designed for
and the junk dealer doesn't either. Soooo . . . while
he's digging around for more, I'll finish figuring
out if they're useful to us.
Spent some more time on them this evening. They're
non-magnetic and soft (probably aluminum . . . and
not real hard at that. Dead smooth on bottom flat
and juncture between stud and base is smooth
with very uniform radius (not spot welded)
see:
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_C.jpg
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_D.jpg
Given shape and finish of threads with other
observed features I'll guess they are aluminum
of an alloy suited for cold forming as a single
piece part. As soon as the JB Weld has cured
on the test sample, I'll pull it apart . . .
or try to.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires |
>
>Why not insert a screw through a countersunk piece of scrap fiberglass
>layup, and bond it with epoxy to the fuselage wall. Screw is captured
>between 1" square fiberglass and wall of fuselage.
>Bill schertz
Do up some samples and see how much "oomph" it takes
to pull it off straight (pure tension), sidways
(pure shear) and pushing it over (bending). If
you like the numbers you see, then this will
work for you. I'm expecting tensile and shear
strengths on the order of 200-500 pounds (at
160F) and expect to see the threaded stud bend
before the bond tears loose.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | 760 VHF installation |
>Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
>What would you think a radio shop would charge to look at it and tweak the
>system and check the antenna/cables for proper grounding?
>
>John
How is the radio performing for you? Do you know
a 'ham' that might have a VSWR meter you can put into
your antenna line? That's what an avionics shop would
do . . . or put an antenna analyzer on it. Have no
experience with current charges but I'd bet their
shop rates are $50/hr or more.
How is your antenna mounted and what provides
the ground plane?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skytec Starter Solenoids |
>
>The problem as described in earlier posts with solenoid failures sounds just
>like my problem - EXCEPT my starter was new (or rather it was made in 1999
>and my Velocity's engine wasn't started until this year). On the 2nd start
>of the engine, the solenoid clicked and nothing happened. After waiting a
>couple of minutes, it worked. For the first 40 hours, my starter was
>sporadic - some times it worked - sometimes it didn't. Didn't seem to matter
>if it was cold or hot.
>
>After calling Skytec, the technician said it sounded like my engine was out
>of balance - and described the vibration damage problem with their
>solenoids - great - but my engine and starter were new. He sent me a new
>solenoid free of charge and asked for my old one back.
>
>The new solenoid has worked perfectly (40 hours).
Interesting data point. Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom..." <tsled(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Starter Contactor Mounting |
Hiya Mr. Robert,
I need my starter to remain engaged for several seconds as I am spinning up
a Turbine. I think it would be best to switch to the contactor you
described as "Bullett-proof". My question is does this contactor need the
diodes as you have on the "standard" contactor?
Thanks for the Aeroelectric-List,
Tom...
< If you ever stick this contactor, you might consider
< replacing with this intermittent duty style:
< http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/s702-1l.jpg
< which is about as bullet-proof a starter contactor
< as you can buy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Starter Contactor Mounting |
>
>Hiya Mr. Robert,
>
>I need my starter to remain engaged for several seconds as I am spinning up
>a Turbine. I think it would be best to switch to the contactor you
>described as "Bullett-proof". My question is does this contactor need the
>diodes as you have on the "standard" contactor?
The S702-1 is only available in 12v as far as I know.
They have diodes built-in. Is your system 14v?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>I'll take 3 dozen or so. Where do I send the money.
I'll let you know . . . I need to put my hands ON
3 dozen . . . or hopefully, many dozens.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tsled(at)pacbell.net" <tsled(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Starter Contactor Mounting |
Hiya Mr. Bob,
It is a 12V "Bas-tard" system, a Solar T62-T-32 Turbine. The diodes are
built-in, sweet!
Thanks,
Tom...
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:31:16 -0500
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starter Contactor Mounting
>
>Hiya Mr. Robert,
>
>I need my starter to remain engaged for several seconds as I am spinning up
>a Turbine. I think it would be best to switch to the contactor you
>described as "Bullett-proof". My question is does this contactor need the
>diodes as you have on the "standard" contactor?
The S702-1 is only available in 12v as far as I know.
They have diodes built-in. Is your system 14v?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mrice5(at)austin.rr.com |
Drew-
I will check into the problems with the Aerolearn.com "internal
server error".
I appreciate the "headsup". As the owner, I am too close to
Aerolearn.com to see problems with access. But the IT dept is
2 doors away from my office. I should not be hearing about
server problems from my SWPC list!
I'm glad you like Aerolearn.com, spread the word- it is still
free to users.
Mike Rice
Chief Administrative Officer
Northrop Rice Aviation Institute of Technology
1155 W. Arbor Vitae, Suite 115
Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone 310 568-4973
Fax: 310 568-8542
Email: mrice(at)nrusa.com
SWPC #12295
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 912 wiring hardware list |
Im new to the list and am putting together the panel for my 912S powered Rans S-7.
Have Bobs book, and have been reading it, and also have been searching the
archive here for info. Boy, its like drinking from a firehose!
I have the theory pretty set but now I just need the nuts and bolts details. Im
sure one of you happens to have a list of the hardware they ordered for wiring
their 912 engine (wired per Z-16). Care to share it with me?
Should I scrap the wires and terminals that Rans includes with their kits and go
with aircraft wires (Im not sure of the type of wires that Rans supplies but
it looks automotive)? Im placing orders for components so if its recommended
to replace the wires and terminals I would be interested in knowing how much
of these folks have used (obviously it depends on the number of instruments, etc
but a rough number is fine and if I have extra thats OK too).
Also, I would sure appreciate any and all advice on specific places where folks
mounted components in their 912 powered planes and maybe how they did the wire
bundles so that they are nice and neat, etc. My battery will be in the tail
and weight is a real concern for me so I plan to go with as light as I can
get away with.
Thanks folks, look forward to a nice efficient panel installation and appreciate
all your advice J
Joa
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fusible links and elec ignition |
| From: | "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com> |
Hi Bob,
I am wiring the dual Lightspeed ignition systems on my EZ this weekend. I plan
to run from the two batteries directly through individual fusible links (22AWG),
then 18AWG or 20AWG 22759/16 for each through individual Carling SPST switches,
and 18AWG/20AWG back to the Lightspeed boxes located above the spar.
My questions:
Is this an acceptable set-up given I do not have main/aux fuse holder type hot
buses?
If I wanted to use the switch breakers I planned to use initially (they're still
sitting in the panel), could I use a fusible link at the batt end to protect
the wire from batt to switch, and use the switch to protect the wire to the Ignition
boxes?? I'm not sure that's an acceptable practice... or practical...
or functional...
Can I use 22AWG links with 20AWG, or is this not enough 'breathing space'? Klaus
says 18AWG or 20AWG should be used. Perhaps 22AWG links and 18AWG?
Can I get some silicon covered fibreglass sleeving to suit directly from you? I
couldn't see it on B&C's website. Perhaps you know a good place to pick some
up.
Learning here. Thanks again.
Regards
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
Just received my Dynon EFIS "D" 10 . Its great. Wired up my harness as per
instructions and fired it up on the bench. Looks great. Played with it for about
three hours, inputted airspeed bugs and got familiar with the menus.
PROBLEM. To input checklist, collect data, update software, you have to have
a laptop with a serial port. I have a Dell Laptop---I have a problem. No
serial port. Bought a cable conversion fro Radio Shack, serial to USB. Still no
luck. Called Dell, NO HELP! Called Dynon, there working on it. Seems to be a
problem with just Dell. Other non-serial port laptops have had some luck with
conversion cable.
Does anyone that has a Dell laptop found a conversion for the EFIS 10
Ed Silvanic
N823MS(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS "D" 10 software |
Check your com port #. I think mine ended up on COM4.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <N823ms(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS "D" 10 software
>
> Just received my Dynon EFIS "D" 10 . Its great. Wired up my harness as per
> instructions and fired it up on the bench. Looks great. Played with it for
about
> three hours, inputted airspeed bugs and got familiar with the menus.
>
> PROBLEM. To input checklist, collect data, update software, you have to
have
> a laptop with a serial port. I have a Dell Laptop---I have a problem. No
> serial port. Bought a cable conversion fro Radio Shack, serial to USB.
Still no
> luck. Called Dell, NO HELP! Called Dynon, there working on it. Seems to be
a
> problem with just Dell. Other non-serial port laptops have had some luck
with
> conversion cable.
>
> Does anyone that has a Dell laptop found a conversion for the EFIS 10
>
>
> Ed Silvanic
> N823MS(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master Switches |
At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my plane,
who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened. I
started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
bonkers. They were adamant about it.
Now I know this has been thrashed through in the archives. I've read all
the threads, and it strikes me that Bob Nuckolls always wins the argument
(though I sense that those on the other side are sometimes never
convinced). Nevertheless, I can't seem to find anyone other than people
who read this list who think it's a good idea not to install an avionics
master. Even the more progressive manufacturers of certified GA planes,
Lancair and Cirrus, with new "high tech" machines, have decided to install
avionics master switches in their ships. The Lancair Columbia 300 manual
even cautions:
"There is a significant amount of electrical current required to start the
engine. For this reason, the avionics master switch must be set to the OFF
position during starting to prevent possible serious damage to the avionics
equipment."
As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one hand,
the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of radio
killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this list
seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
relevant.
Perhaps there is no simple answer?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
> PROBLEM. To input checklist, collect data, update software,
> you have to have a laptop with a serial port. I have a Dell
> Laptop---I have a problem. No serial port. Bought a cable
> conversion fro Radio Shack, serial to USB. Still no luck.
> Called Dell, NO HELP! Called Dynon, there working on it.
> Seems to be a problem with just Dell. Other non-serial
> port laptops have had some luck with conversion cable.
>
> Does anyone that has a Dell laptop found a conversion for the
> EFIS 10
This isn't a uniquely Dell problem - IBM has also removed their Thinkpad serial
ports on the new models. Your conversion isssue MOST LIKELY is not with the laptop,
it's with the cable. These conversion cables have a chip (two, usually)
in them that do the conversion. Most of the cheaper varieties (the ones Rat Shack
sells) are only suitable for "Human Interface Devices" like mice. These do
not actually create a virtual serial port on the PC.
What you want is a converter based on the FTDI chipset. Search on eBay and you'll
probably find a few options. The FTDI chipset includes a driver that emulates
a serial port, so traditional communications software (like that shipped with
the Dynon) can use the port. (They're none the wiser.)
By the way, I have a converter in the first (HID) category if anybody wants one.
It's free to anybody willing to pay the shipping. I made the same mistake,
and they're all but worthless. I was building a glass cockpit and using
serial to interface with the devices before I switched to CANbus. No more serial
port problems. =)
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrison Sem" <chasm711(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | analog altitude reminder |
I am finishing the instrument panel and I am looking for an analog altitude
reminder, basically just a scratch pad to put assigned altitudes in. I have
seen units that look like a hobbs meter that you can turn the numbers with a
thumb wheel. does anyone know of a source for these or a unit with similar
capabilities.
thanks
Paul Schattauer
rv8#9
N808PS
Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles Simon" <Simon.Miles(at)skynet.be> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Dan,
On the aeroplane I fly, (a C172) every bit of avionics equipment has its own
on/off switch and my checklist tells me to make sure everything is off
before the starter starts cranking the engine.
As I have never flown anything more sophisticated than a C172/PA28 type I
have always been bewildered by the obsession with an 'avionics master' - in
fact, none of the aeroplanes I was trained on even had one. If nothing is
switched on when you start up why is it needed? I can only assume that
Lancairs and similar aeroplanes require different procedures.
Simon Miles.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
>
> At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
> an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
> electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
> have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
> just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
> 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my
plane,
> who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened.
I
> started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
> single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> bonkers. They were adamant about it.
>
> Now I know this has been thrashed through in the archives. I've read all
> the threads, and it strikes me that Bob Nuckolls always wins the argument
> (though I sense that those on the other side are sometimes never
> convinced). Nevertheless, I can't seem to find anyone other than people
> who read this list who think it's a good idea not to install an avionics
> master. Even the more progressive manufacturers of certified GA planes,
> Lancair and Cirrus, with new "high tech" machines, have decided to install
> avionics master switches in their ships. The Lancair Columbia 300 manual
> even cautions:
>
> "There is a significant amount of electrical current required to start the
> engine. For this reason, the avionics master switch must be set to the
OFF
> position during starting to prevent possible serious damage to the
avionics
> equipment."
>
> As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one hand,
> the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of radio
> killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this
list
> seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
> majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
> not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
> relevant.
>
> Perhaps there is no simple answer?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS "D" 10 software |
Chad:
Thank you for your info. I am not an e-bay user, where would I begin to
search for one.
ED
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS "D" 10 software |
In a message dated 8/27/2003 1:45:02 PM Central Standard Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
Check your com port #. I think mine ended up on COM4.
)_( Dan
I checked my com port. It would only recognize co 3. Still no luck.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Dan,
History is paved with non-believers bathed in the light of knowledge.
In the 15th century, Leonardo Da Vinci was practically placed under house
arrest because he dared to suggest that the world was round rather than flat
even though, knowledge of the earth's shape dated back to the times of
Aristotle (350 BC).
Bob's request for measurable and repeatable scientific data supporting the
notion that these transient spikes exist continues to go unfullfilled. While
the absence of proof to the contrary doesn't, in and of itself, prove that they
don't exist, the lack of any real hard evidence in the face of all this first
hand experience does create some doubts.
At some point, you have to trust the facts. It is a rather simple
proposition. Either you are comforatble believing that an Avionics Master is
not needed, or your are not. If not, put one in.
We promise not to put you under house arrest if you do.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
>
> At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
> an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
> electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
> have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
> just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
> 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my plane,
> who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened. I
> started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
> single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> bonkers. They were adamant about it.
>
> Now I know this has been thrashed through in the archives. I've read all
> the threads, and it strikes me that Bob Nuckolls always wins the argument
> (though I sense that those on the other side are sometimes never
> convinced). Nevertheless, I can't seem to find anyone other than people
> who read this list who think it's a good idea not to install an avionics
> master. Even the more progressive manufacturers of certified GA planes,
> Lancair and Cirrus, with new "high tech" machines, have decided to install
> avionics master switches in their ships. The Lancair Columbia 300 manual
> even cautions:
>
> "There is a significant amount of electrical current required to start the
> engine. For this reason, the avionics master switch must be set to the OFF
> position during starting to prevent possible serious damage to the avionics
> equipment."
>
> As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one hand,
> the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of radio
> killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this list
> seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
> majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
> not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
> relevant.
>
> Perhaps there is no simple answer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
In a message dated 8/27/2003 1:51:08 PM Central Standard Time,
danobrien(at)cox.net writes:
Perhaps there is no simple answer?
Yes: Keep it simple. When in doubt install an avionics master switch. Us as
home builders can not afford someone elses principle at the expense of loosing
all or part of our avionincs package.
Ed
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Dan O'Brien wrote:
>As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one
>hand,
>the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of
>radio
>killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this
>list
>seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
>majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
>not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
>relevant.
Let me see if I can take a whack at this. If your system is assembled
and wired as Bob advises here there is not much that a master switch
can do for you other than to provide emotional comfort for those who
don't understand the design philosophy of Bob. In short, you won't
have the spikes if you follow the practices advocated here.
Even so, for the sake of discussion, let's just say you do have some
humongous system killing spike generated in your system. Spikes are
without exception (by definition) transient excursions of voltage
beyond the normal range of expected voltage and last in the very low
end of millionths of a second. How long will it take you to recognize
the spike and how will turning off the master switch some seconds after
the event help you? The answer is simple -- it won't.
Will that master switch protect from applying 28V to a 12V
system? Nope -- probably not even close to doing anything useful.
If you have built a fault tolerant system from the advice given by Bob
you will have system performance well beyond the norm for certified
aircraft.
Why don't you invite your friends to join us here? I bet they will
learn some new and more reliable tricks, even though they must still
probably continue the old religion in their certified work.
>Perhaps there is no simple answer?
Perhaps not, but then it's really just a matter of step-by-step
application of small truths to the overall system design.
Bob can defend his own ideas but thought I'd throw in my thoughts.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
Can't you use the serial port on a desktop vs a laptop. Almost all desktops
still have them.
Neil
At 03:30 PM 8/27/03, you wrote:
>
>
> > PROBLEM. To input checklist, collect data, update software,
> > you have to have a laptop with a serial port. I have a Dell
> > Laptop---I have a problem. No serial port. Bought a cable
> > conversion fro Radio Shack, serial to USB. Still no luck.
> > Called Dell, NO HELP! Called Dynon, there working on it.
> > Seems to be a problem with just Dell. Other non-serial
> > port laptops have had some luck with conversion cable.
> >
> > Does anyone that has a Dell laptop found a conversion for the
> > EFIS 10
>
>This isn't a uniquely Dell problem - IBM has also removed their Thinkpad
>serial ports on the new models. Your conversion isssue MOST LIKELY is not
>with the laptop, it's with the cable. These conversion cables have a chip
>(two, usually) in them that do the conversion. Most of the cheaper
>varieties (the ones Rat Shack sells) are only suitable for "Human
>Interface Devices" like mice. These do not actually create a virtual
>serial port on the PC.
>
>What you want is a converter based on the FTDI chipset. Search on eBay and
>you'll probably find a few options. The FTDI chipset includes a driver
>that emulates a serial port, so traditional communications software (like
>that shipped with the Dynon) can use the port. (They're none the wiser.)
>
>By the way, I have a converter in the first (HID) category if anybody
>wants one. It's free to anybody willing to pay the shipping. I made
>the same mistake, and they're all but worthless. I was building a glass
>cockpit and using serial to interface with the devices before I switched
>to CANbus. No more serial port problems. =)
>
>Regards,
>Chad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS "D" 10 software |
In a message dated 8/27/2003 3:14:18 PM Central Standard Time,
harvey4(at)earthlink.net writes:
Can't you use the serial port on a desktop vs a laptop. Almost all desktops
still have them.
Neil
Neil:
Your absolutely correct. However, you can not drag one in the airplane for a
check flight of the AOA or Mag calibration check flight.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: analog altitude reminder |
Sporty's has them
Dave Burnham
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master Switches |
Dan,
The argument that an avionics master provides any protection to the avionics
is complete hog wash! It's a procedure thing. If you don't turn off the
avionics master for starting, then what magic characteristic of the avionics
master will protect your expensive avionics? It still comes down to did the
pilot follow the correct start-up procedures. The avionics master provides
no protection, it merely provides a single point of failure for all
avionics, and a single point for conveniently turning off the avionics.
We'll ignore the argument creating a surge by turning on all the avionics at
one time with an avionics master.
In the case of folks on this list, we're trying to build aircraft electrical
systems that belong in the 21st century. Reliability is more important to
us than convenience, therefore we turn off the avionics at each unit's
on/off switch and eliminate the single point of failure of the avionics
master. There is nothing functionally different between what you are doing
and what your so called experts are trying to get you to do. It's just that
they value convenience and tradition over reliability. As for me, improving
reliability of the overall system is the best course to follow regardless of
how the certified birds are built. Thanks to lectric Bob for setting the
higher standard and encouraging us to reach it!
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
O'Brien
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my plane,
who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened. I
started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
bonkers. They were adamant about it.
Now I know this has been thrashed through in the archives. I've read all
the threads, and it strikes me that Bob Nuckolls always wins the argument
(though I sense that those on the other side are sometimes never
convinced). Nevertheless, I can't seem to find anyone other than people
who read this list who think it's a good idea not to install an avionics
master. Even the more progressive manufacturers of certified GA planes,
Lancair and Cirrus, with new "high tech" machines, have decided to install
avionics master switches in their ships. The Lancair Columbia 300 manual
even cautions:
"There is a significant amount of electrical current required to start the
engine. For this reason, the avionics master switch must be set to the OFF
position during starting to prevent possible serious damage to the avionics
equipment."
As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one hand,
the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of radio
killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this list
seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
relevant.
Perhaps there is no simple answer?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrison Sem" <chasm711(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: analog altitude reminder |
Dave
thanks
Paul
>From: DJB6A(at)cs.com
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: analog altitude reminder
>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:18:33 EDT
>
>
>Sporty's has them
>
>Dave Burnham
>RV6A
>
>
Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
Another D-10/laptop word of (obvious) advice: Don't rely on your laptop
battery! I had a full charge on mine, and went to update the D-10.
Within 5 minutes of use, in the middle of the update, the laptop battery
died and so did my D-10!! Had the ThinkPad been plugged into the wall,
my EFIS wouldn't be enroute back to Dynon to be reflashed....... :(
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robinson, Chad [mailto:crobinson(at)rfgonline.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:31 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS "D" 10 software
>
>
> -->
>
> > PROBLEM. To input checklist, collect data, update software,
> you have
> > to have a laptop with a serial port. I have a Dell
> Laptop---I have a
> > problem. No serial port. Bought a cable conversion fro Radio Shack,
> > serial to USB. Still no luck. Called Dell, NO HELP! Called Dynon,
> > there working on it. Seems to be a problem with just Dell. Other
> > non-serial port laptops have had some luck with conversion cable.
> >
> > Does anyone that has a Dell laptop found a conversion for
> the EFIS 10
>
> This isn't a uniquely Dell problem - IBM has also removed
> their Thinkpad serial ports on the new models. Your
> conversion isssue MOST LIKELY is not with the laptop, it's
> with the cable. These conversion cables have a chip (two,
> usually) in them that do the conversion. Most of the cheaper
> varieties (the ones Rat Shack sells) are only suitable for
> "Human Interface Devices" like mice. These do not actually
> create a virtual serial port on the PC.
>
> What you want is a converter based on the FTDI chipset.
> Search on eBay and you'll probably find a few options. The
> FTDI chipset includes a driver that emulates a serial port,
> so traditional communications software (like that shipped
> with the Dynon) can use the port. (They're none the wiser.)
>
> By the way, I have a converter in the first (HID) category if
> anybody wants one. It's free to anybody willing to pay the
> shipping. I made the same mistake, and they're all but
> worthless. I was building a glass cockpit and using serial to
> interface with the devices before I switched to CANbus. No
> more serial port problems. =)
>
> Regards,
> Chad
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
| From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
> In the case of folks on this list, we're trying to build aircraft
> electrical
> systems that belong in the 21st century. Reliability is more
> important to
> us than convenience, therefore we turn off the avionics at each unit's
> on/off switch and eliminate the single point of failure of the avionics
> master.
Bob,
If I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if this is wrong, but I
thought the thinking goes that if the equipment meets DO-160 and is
otherwise designed properly then there is no need to turn it off at
all! Leave it on during cranking, shutdown, and whenever else.
Correct?
Jim Daniels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil |
| Subject: | Re: aerolearn.com |
Mike-
Thank you very much. As a reservist deployed to Iraq, whose education and employment
has been interrupted, I find your site to be incredibly helpful, and will
allow me to surprise my employer and instructors by coming out of this "year's
vacation" with a larger knowledge base about aviation maintenance and avionics.
I am currently in the process of writing an article for our EAA chapter newsletter
about on-line aviation education and I'm showcasing your site as well. Thanks
for the important and FREE service!!!
Drew
----- Original Message -----
From: mrice5(at)austin.rr.com
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:46 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: aerolearn.com
>
> Drew-
> I will check into the problems with the Aerolearn.com "internal
> server error".
>
> I appreciate the "headsup". As the owner, I am too close to
> Aerolearn.com to see problems with access. But the IT dept is
> 2 doors away from my office. I should not be hearing about
> server problems from my SWPC list!
>
> I'm glad you like Aerolearn.com, spread the word- it is still
> free to users.
>
> Mike Rice
> Chief Administrative Officer
> Northrop Rice Aviation Institute of Technology
> 1155 W. Arbor Vitae, Suite 115
> Inglewood, CA 90301
> Phone 310 568-4973
> Fax: 310 568-8542
>
> Email: mrice(at)nrusa.com
>
> SWPC #12295
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil |
| Subject: | Flight sim for kids question |
Hello all! Slightly off-topic, here. As some of you may know, my wife and I volunteer
to do aviation programs for elementary students, and have been approached
by a 4th through 6th grade after-school program teacher, who is writing a
grant to purchase a "full-control" flight simulator for kids. Is there something
out there that has rudder input with pedals that would provide this? She's
only looking to spend $1200, though I think we might be able to help subsidize
this through the EAA chapter.
I had the odd thought that maybe some enterprising individuals could build a "Link"
type trainer and affix a laptop computer to the windscreen to do an even
better job of simulating flight.
Thanks for your input ahead of time.
Drew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
>
> > In the case of folks on this list, we're trying to build aircraft
> > electrical
> > systems that belong in the 21st century. Reliability is more
> > important to
> > us than convenience, therefore we turn off the avionics at each unit's
> > on/off switch and eliminate the single point of failure of the avionics
> > master.
>
>Bob,
> If I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if this is wrong, but I
>thought the thinking goes that if the equipment meets DO-160 and is
>otherwise designed properly then there is no need to turn it off at
>all! Leave it on during cranking, shutdown, and whenever else.
>Correct?
Exactly.
That is the crux of my request to disciples of the Avionics
Master faith. What is the source, magnitude and wave-shape of
any transient thought to be harmful to any piece of electronics
installed on an airplane be it panel-mounted or otherwise?
I've been building electro-whizzies for aircraft for just
shy of 30 years now . . . These critters have c-mos
integrated circuits, micro-processors, field-effect
tansistors, all known for their vulnerability to
relatively low energy events of sufficient voltage
to punch their bitty brains out.
I've never had the option of powering my products from an
"avionics bus" . . . but having jumped the hoops to qualify
to current configuration of DO-160 (which, by the way, gets
more hoops every year), nobody stood around wringing their
hands worrying about whether gremlins in the airplane were
going to kill my gizmo . . .
Yet, once the gizmo is ordained into the inner sanctum
of panel-mounted avionics, Shazam! . . . a miracle
occurs and the device is now worthy of extra ordinary
concessions for the sake of extending service life.
All I've ever asked is for someone to explain the physics
of this metamorphosis . . . physics that should be
stone simple and easy to understand.
I've hypothesized based on study, experience and observation
that the metamorphosis is purely cosmetic. Dog catchers
that used to function out in the heat, humidity, rain,
snow, bramble bushes and snarling dogs suddenly become worthy
of air conditioned limos, health plans and retirement packages
most can only dream about simply because they were elected
senator.
I've asked dozens of manufacturers to provide the engineering
justification for elevating their products to the senate when
mine must happily live and work in the bramble bushes. To
date, not a single attempt at explanation has been forthcoming.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | B&C Installation Details |
In support of Larry, I too am a customer who feels B&C can do a much better
job of including instructions/directions with their products. After a very
frustrating week, last Saturday I wrote Tim Hedding, the engineer at B&C, a three
page letter asking for instruction on two B&C products I purchased and
pointing out other areas/products where written documentation would have helped
me.
I hope my comments were taken in the constructive intent with which they were
written.
Yes, B&C's web site answers some questions, but not most of mine. There is
also Bob's articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/ which answer a few more.
But I can't find an index for Bob's articles and the file names are not
sufficiently intuitive for me to figure out what the content of each may be. I
did
call up and print each article out which took 9 hours over two days on my
ancient computer. That also helped some. Of course I ask questions on this list,
but some of my questions (like attaching 24 and 26 AWG wires when crimped
connectors, particularly quarter inch fast-on tabs, do not come that small),
haven't been answered. I asked that question a couple of weeks ago. Well, Bob
did
respond by only asking "What kind of avionics do you have?" Do I have to
tell Bob that harnesses made by the supplier on my S-Tec System 30, my Century
NSD 100 HSI, and my PS Engineering PCD-7100I intercom all have some of these
small wires in order to get him to answer a simple crimping question?
In support of B&C I must tell you all that Todd has a very positive attitude
about getting me help if I call and we have a good relationship. It just
sometimes takes days or a week to get an answer like a wiring diagram for their
S704-1 relay. Consequently, as a consumer of the good products of B&C I feel a
page of instruction with products would often save me hours (and at times
weeks) of wasteful hunting. As I pointed out to Tim, even a can of soup has
directions.
Pete
RV-6, working on panel, full IFR with Garmin 530
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
This is a pre-made search that looks for FTDI in both titles and descriptions:
http://search-desc.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=ftdi&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&sotextsearched=2&BasicSearch
If you prefer a vendor approach, this is somewhat more expensive but appears to
be the right item:
http://www.usbwholesale.com/us232%201port.htm
You may have some luck with Google searching for these.
Regards,
Chad
> -----Original Message-----
> From: N823ms(at)aol.com [mailto:N823ms(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 4:00 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS "D" 10 software
>
>
>
> Chad:
>
> Thank you for your info. I am not an e-bay user, where
> would I begin to
> search for one.
>
>
> ED
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rino <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Dan O'Brien wrote:
>
>
> At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
> an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
> electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
> have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
> just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
> 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my plane,
> who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened. I
> started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
> single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> bonkers. They were adamant about it.
Why electronics fry in airplanes and does not in cars.
I simply do no understand, is there a virus that attack airplane
electronics only?
What is so special about aircraft avionics? Is it that fragile?
Rino
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Simple, in a car (at least in the past 25 years) when you turn the key to
light the engine all other power to accessories is cut, i.e. an "avionics
master switch."
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rino" <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
>
> Dan O'Brien wrote:
> >
> >
> > At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk
to
> > an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
> > electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
> > have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and
he
> > just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> > spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he
saw
> > 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my
plane,
> > who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened.
I
> > started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
> > single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> > standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> > bonkers. They were adamant about it.
>
> Why electronics fry in airplanes and does not in cars.
> I simply do no understand, is there a virus that attack airplane
> electronics only?
> What is so special about aircraft avionics? Is it that fragile?
>
> Rino
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil |
| Subject: | aerolearn.com back up! |
Just logged in this morning and aerolearn.com is back up! They were redoing some
things, and the new format is a lot easier to navigate, at least for me.
Excellent. For anyone who hasn't tried it, it's pretty nifty.
Drew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FlashandCo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wigwag Indicator |
Bob and all,
I read the following scheme for a "contactor on" indicator and was wondering if
it would work for a B&C-type wigwag "on" indicator:
>>Bob said - If you want to use an LED, you'll need to
put a resistor in series with it. Mount this
resistor AT THE CONTACTOR end of the wire. This
impedance jump at the source end will protect the
wire. Also, put a diode in parallel with the
LED with banded end (cathode) of diode tied
to plus side (anode) of LED. LED's are relatively
robust for forward transient currents but rather
fragile for reverse transients. The diode (1N4005
or similar) combined with your 330 ohm resistor
at the feed-end of the wire will protect the
LED.<<
My plans are to use the Aerolectric/B&C wigwag schematic, but plan to use a DPDT
relay in place of the S700-2-3 dedicated wigwag switch. I will trigger this
relay with one of my Infinity grip switches (#5 blue for those who have the grip).
Since the grip switch is a push-on/push-off, I would like an indicator
light on the panel, probably just above the taxi and landing light switches to
tell me status. Would this LED setup work? Also, I wrote B&C about such a
relay but they don't stock this animal. Good Digikey P/N?
Last but not least, thanks for the many fine tips that clear the muddy waters.
Bob Gordon RV6 Wiring
Dover DE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
>
>
>This is a pre-made search that looks for FTDI in both titles and descriptions:
>
>http://search-desc.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=ftdi&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&sotextsearched=2&BasicSearch
>If you prefer a vendor approach, this is somewhat more expensive but
>appears to be the right item:
>
>http://www.usbwholesale.com/us232%201port.htm
>
>You may have some luck with Google searching for these.
I just bought a USB/232 serial adapter at Best Buy
to connect a palmtop to a laptop. Gave $29 for it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Banus" <mbanus(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires |
Sign me up for a handful!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Banus" <mbanus(at)hotmail.com> |
Try closing all programs running and close all icons in your tray.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unstable charging system . . . |
>I felt pretty certain that if you recommended hooking the regulator right
>to the back of the alternator, and then followed the appropriate
>connection you knew things would settle down nicely. Well, they did just
>that! The ammeter was rock steady to the charging side, and the voltage
>read a solid 14.4
>Now the follow up to get these same results once the voltage regulator is
>reinstalled, and not hanging off the alternator. The other thing I noted
>was that when hooked up in this manner the alternator side of the split
>master was not working, but I'm sure you knew that would happen.
>
>Let me know what's next, and thanks!
Okay, this experiment was important to tell
us that the components were okay and that you
didn't have a flaky regulator or bouncing brushes
in the alternator.
I'd start at the bus (did I ask whether you're
using fuseblocks or breakers?) and check to see
that you have good terminals, at least 20AWG wire
all the way to the regulator's "A/S" terminals.
If the regulator is mounted on the firewall,
grounding isn't an issue for the regulator . . .
and seldom does grounding affect stability . . .
only voltage setting.
Also, you mentioned that the "alternator side
of the split master was not working" . . . I'd
bet that MOST of your circuit resistance is
happening in that switch. I have a plastic
bag full of perfectly good looking split-rocker
switches that were sent to me after putting
in a new one cured a bouncy ammeter complaint.
This has occurred in countless certified ships
and a few OBAM aircraft. This doesn't mean that
the split-rocker is necessarily a "bad" product
(it's made by Carling and uses the same guts
as the S700 series toggle switches B&C sells).
Regulators are sensitive to small amounts of
resistance in the lines between bus and regulator.
I had one builder who mounted his regulator within
a few inches of the bus, tied the A/S terminals
directly to the breaker with short, single,
solid wire and put his alternator control switch
in series with the field wire. He added crowbar
ov protection to the breaker and ended up with
a combination that would probably be stable over
the lifetime of the airplane.
In older production Cessnas, I think I counted
20 some odd crimps, connections and spring-pressure
maintained metal-metal contacts between bus and
regulator. As all of these joints age, they add
resistance to the circuit. At some point in time,
the system becomes unstable with symptoms you
have observed.
Thousands of spam-can owners have paid out $millions$
to ignorant mechanics who replaced EVERYTHING BUT
aged/compromised wiring before finally renewing the
bus-to-regulator components. In many cases, owners
have reported that replacing only the spilt-rocker
"fixed" the problem. Indeed this single component
can be a major contributor of total loop resistance.
But consider that if NEW loop resistance was on
the order of 50 milliohms and had climbed to
100 milliohms with the switch contributing
25 ohms of de-stabilizing resistance. Replacing
the switch drops total down to 75 milliohms and
the regulator is happy again . . . but not for
as long as it would be when replacing ALL
sources of age/service related resistance
in the bus-to-regulator pathway.
The obvious, elegant solution in original
design is to incorporate a regulator that separates
voltage sense wires from field current supply
wires. The LR-3 does just that. Any new regulators
I design will have separate sense wires too.
Does this suggest that the OBAM community
should rip out all their three-terminal
switchers and bolt on the LR-3? Not at all.
The automotive style regulators have for the
most part given good value but they DO have
special characteristics that only one mechanic
in 1000 understands. In the spam-can world,
ignorance is shoveled out at $thousands$ per
non-idea, in the OBAM aircraft world, we've managed to
keep those costs MUCH lower . . . and much of
it happens right here on the AeroElectric
List.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
You have to understand that for an A&E doing something new is a lose-lose
situation... His defense when anything goes wrong is that, 'we always do it
that way so it's not my fault!'... He isn't about to give up his only
defense...
The answer is to do your own homework (as you are doing), listen to all
viewpoints and consider whether they are based on facts or emotion, then
make your own decisions - and don't waste your breath arguing with people
who make their decisions based on, "we always do it that way".
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
The reason for the Electrical bypass has nothing to do with protection.
This was done to provide max voltage for the starter in cold weather.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800
----- Original Message -----
From: <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
>
> Simple, in a car (at least in the past 25 years) when you turn the key to
> light the engine all other power to accessories is cut, i.e. an "avionics
> master switch."
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rino" <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
>
>
> >
> > Dan O'Brien wrote:
> > >
>
> > >
> > > At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk
> to
> > > an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described
the
> > > electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I
wouldn't
> > > have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed,
and
> he
> > > just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> > > spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he
> saw
> > > 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my
> plane,
> > > who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he
listened.
> I
> > > started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list
(avoiding
> > > single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> > > standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> > > bonkers. They were adamant about it.
> >
> > Why electronics fry in airplanes and does not in cars.
> > I simply do no understand, is there a virus that attack airplane
> > electronics only?
> > What is so special about aircraft avionics? Is it that fragile?
> >
> > Rino
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Bob, tsk, tsk, tsk.... I suspect that if the fickle finger of fate does get
you someday, the offical DOT report will cite the lack of an avionics master
switch AND that you didn't file a flight plan!
Now everyone knows that lacking either of those will cause you to fall out
of the sky...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
mail.flyboybob.com"
>
> Dan,
>
> The argument that an avionics master provides any protection to the
avionics
> is complete hog wash! It's a procedure thing. If you don't turn off the
> avionics master for starting, then what magic characteristic of the
avionics
> master will protect your expensive avionics? It still comes down to did
the
> pilot follow the correct start-up procedures. The avionics master
provides
> no protection, it merely provides a single point of failure for all
> avionics, and a single point for conveniently turning off the avionics.
> We'll ignore the argument creating a surge by turning on all the avionics
at
> one time with an avionics master.
>
> In the case of folks on this list, we're trying to build aircraft
electrical
> systems that belong in the 21st century. Reliability is more important to
> us than convenience, therefore we turn off the avionics at each unit's
> on/off switch and eliminate the single point of failure of the avionics
> master. There is nothing functionally different between what you are
doing
> and what your so called experts are trying to get you to do. It's just
that
> they value convenience and tradition over reliability. As for me,
improving
> reliability of the overall system is the best course to follow regardless
of
> how the certified birds are built. Thanks to lectric Bob for setting the
> higher standard and encouraging us to reach it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lee
> ______________________________
> N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
> 91% done only 51% to go!
> Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
> mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
> http://flyboybob.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan
> O'Brien
> To: Aeroelectric-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Switches
>
>
> At the hanger Saturday working on my Lancair ES I had occasion to talk to
> an electrical guy installing a panel in a Lancair IVP. I described the
> electrical system I've adopted (Z-14), and when I noted that I wouldn't
> have an avionics master switch, his lips pursed, his eyes narrowed, and he
> just shook his head. Said he's seen many avionics fried by electrical
> spikes. Says he's seen it happen in planes and on the bench, where he saw
> 24 volts fry a 12 volt piece of equipment. The guy helping me on my
plane,
> who has helped out on 18 Lancairs, had the same reaction as he listened.
I
> started defending myself with arguments I've read on this list (avoiding
> single point failures; having good over-voltage protection; the DO-160
> standards, etc.). Still, they both thought I was pretty much
> bonkers. They were adamant about it.
>
> Now I know this has been thrashed through in the archives. I've read all
> the threads, and it strikes me that Bob Nuckolls always wins the argument
> (though I sense that those on the other side are sometimes never
> convinced). Nevertheless, I can't seem to find anyone other than people
> who read this list who think it's a good idea not to install an avionics
> master. Even the more progressive manufacturers of certified GA planes,
> Lancair and Cirrus, with new "high tech" machines, have decided to install
> avionics master switches in their ships. The Lancair Columbia 300 manual
> even cautions:
>
> "There is a significant amount of electrical current required to start the
> engine. For this reason, the avionics master switch must be set to the
OFF
> position during starting to prevent possible serious damage to the
avionics
> equipment."
>
> As a non-specialist, how is one to evaluate this issue? On the one hand,
> the complete absence of real empirical support for the existence of radio
> killing spikes in response to Bob's requests for such evidence on this
list
> seems quite relevant. On the other hand, the fact that the overwhelming
> majority of experienced avionics people I've spoken with think it's nuts
> not to protect avionics with a separate switch/contactor/bus also seems
> relevant.
>
> Perhaps there is no simple answer?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
I wonder, does the Shuttle have a single master switch that kills
everything, including the three backup flight computers?
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
>
>Simple, in a car (at least in the past 25 years) when you turn the key to
>light the engine all other power to accessories is cut, i.e. an "avionics
>master switch."
Close, but no cigar. The "accessory" bus in an automobile
carries lots of loads not the least of which used to be
a/c and heater blowers. Allowing everything to operate
while cranking the engine will indeed put the three year
old, capacity challenged battery at a disadvantage.
Consider that while accessory loads are removed during
cranking, all the super-whippy ignition and fuel control
systems with their micro-circuits are still on-line . . . else
one could not get the engine started.
The automotive industry has been diligent in their
approach to risk mitigation for transient voltages.
They DESIGN in protection just like DO-160 calls for
in airplanes. Nothing so crude as opening a switch
just to protect sensitive electro-whizzies from
those mean ol' starter motors.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Installation Details |
Try this
http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/rings2.html
and this
http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/nylonflags2.html
and here
http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/quickdisconnects2.html
Amazing what a few keystrokes on google will produce in 0.12 seconds...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: <PeterHunt1(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C Installation Details
>
> In support of Larry, I too am a customer who feels B&C can do a much
better
> job of including instructions/directions with their products.
> but some of my questions (like attaching 24 and 26 AWG wires when crimped
> connectors, particularly quarter inch fast-on tabs, do not come that
small),
> haven't been answered.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Installation Details |
>
>In support of Larry, I too am a customer who feels B&C can do a much better
>job of including instructions/directions with their products. After a very
>frustrating week, last Saturday I wrote Tim Hedding, the engineer at B&C,
>a three
>page letter asking for instruction on two B&C products I purchased and
>pointing out other areas/products where written documentation would have
>helped me.
>I hope my comments were taken in the constructive intent with which they were
>written.
>
>Yes, B&C's web site answers some questions, but not most of mine. There is
>also Bob's articles at http://www.aeroelectric.com/ which answer a few more.
>But I can't find an index for Bob's articles and the file names are not
>sufficiently intuitive for me to figure out what the content of each may
>be. I did
>call up and print each article out which took 9 hours over two days on my
>ancient computer.
Why not get the CD Rom? It's easy to click an article and
look it over for possible value to a particular task. It
takes perhaps 20 seconds per item. I've got a new
index that will group the articles by categories and make
them more convenient to access but the notion of printing
out paper copies of all that material is a daunting task
on the fastest of computers . . . that's why the CD was
crafted. I don't have paper copies of all that stuff and
I wrote most of it.
> That also helped some. Of course I ask questions on this list,
>but some of my questions (like attaching 24 and 26 AWG wires when crimped
>connectors, particularly quarter inch fast-on tabs, do not come that small),
>haven't been answered. I asked that question a couple of weeks
>ago. Well, Bob did
>respond by only asking "What kind of avionics do you have?" Do I have to
>tell Bob that harnesses made by the supplier on my S-Tec System 30, my
>Century
>NSD 100 HSI, and my PS Engineering PCD-7100I intercom all have some of these
>small wires in order to get him to answer a simple crimping question?
No, not at all. But when someone SUPPLIES such small wires as part of
their recommended installation, why not ask them how they propose
it be installed in your airplane? I am skeptical of the experience
level of designers that use anything smaller than 22AWG in box-to-box
wiring of airframe components unless they've taken special steps
to make it quick and painless (I've designed system that use
28AWG ribbon cable . . . with connectors already supplied on each
end). When an installer is pondering how to put a fast-on terminal
on a 26AWG wire, there's something wrong with this picture. Fast-ons
are not crafted for this size wire 'cause AMP couldn't conceived the
notion that anyone would ever want to do it. I didn't catch
your reply to my original query, sorry 'bout that. It wasn't
intentional. I'd intended to continue this tread of discussion
as follows:
Until Premier, 22AWG was the smallest airframe wire you'd find
an a Raytheon aircraft. I noticed that they took the big leap
into that foggy world of weigh-reduction by wire sizing to save
a hand-full of pounds while allowing some horrible systems
designs to go forward that penalized them tens of pounds per
system (don't get me started on that one). We've got some
24AWG airframe wiring (ALL of which is crimped into connector
pins designed for that size wire by automated machines).
Folks on the harness floor don't like to re-work problems
with this size wire but perhaps they're just honking about
having to deal with a new but practical task. Time in the
field will reveal whether or not that design decision
was a good one or not.
>In support of B&C I must tell you all that Todd has a very positive attitude
>about getting me help if I call and we have a good relationship. It just
>sometimes takes days or a week to get an answer like a wiring diagram for
>their
>S704-1 relay. Consequently, as a consumer of the good products of B&C I
>feel a
>page of instruction with products would often save me hours (and at times
>weeks) of wasteful hunting. As I pointed out to Tim, even a can of soup has
>directions.
With respect to "dropped threads" of discussion. For myself
at least, I've found that it's necessary to start with the
most recent posts and work my way backwards. Depending on
time available -OR- the need to ponder a reply, a response
will get pushed back. When I have larger blocks of time, I
look for older items in the in-box and try to address them.
Nonetheless, there are items that don't get picked up.
From time to time, I'll clean out everything in my in-box
that's more than 30 days old. Just zapped away about 200
items yesterday.
This isn't a blatant effort to brush anyone off . . .
it's just the only way I have to make most considered
use of my spare time.
Pete, forgive me my friend but if things like diagrams on S704
relays has been a big hang-up for you, I'm compelled to suggest
that you've not availed yourself of TONS of such guidance available
right here on the list from lots of folks. I wouldn't bother
Tim with any question that was not related to something he
has original equipment manufacturing responsibility for. Just
because B&C has taken on the task of being a one-stop-shopping
source for all those nifty purchased parts, tools and materials
doesn't give them duties for systems integration and user education
on yours or any other builder's project.
The folks at B&C do have an intense interest in making your
job easier and they're happy and willing to help
you as much as they can . . . but when someone's wages
are based on value-added efforts they do for the company,
the chunks of time we can reasonable expect to punch
out of their day for rudimentary education is necessarily
limited if we don't want the cost of their products to go up.
Please put your questions up here on the list first
and bang on the pot a little too if it seems that
the question is being ignored. I'm certain that you,
other folks on the list with the same questions
-AND- the nice folks at B&C will all be happier.
Getting back to your wire question: If you really need
to put a fast-on or other crimped terminal on so small
a wire, the only thing you can do is strip extra long
and double or quad-up the strands to better fill the
wire grip space in the terminal. Also, put a piece of
heatshrink over the end of the wire to increase its
insulation diameter to let masquerade as the kind of
wire it would like to be if it ever grows up.
Finally, anyone has a question hung up on the
AeroElectric List, it never hurts to post a reminder
. . . you're not going to offend me and it's a good
way to keep a thread on the front burners.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | avionics masters |
<>
A couple of observations: I would guess that the aircraft electrical system
is more "fragile" that a car system. The battery is smaller and the
alternator is larger. In the interest of weight savings the wire gage sizes
might be smaller. all of this presumably could result in higher amplitude
voltage transients. But cars have little or nothing in the way of voltage
suppressors for inductive loads and one of the big ones is the AC clutch,
which switches on and off all the time. Another data point: The accessory
terminal on the ignition switch is mostly there to reduce the superfluous
loading on the battery during cranking in order to extend the cold starting
ability - much of the engine and chassis control units are powered all the
time. And of course, the engine control ECU, probably the most complex
electronic device in the car, is powered during cranking.
What's all this mean? I think nothing. The only reason I can think of,
after following this thread for a while, for having an avionics master is
the convenience of one switch instead of several. As someone said, it's a
trade=off between convenience and reliability.
Gary Casey
ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fusible links and elec ignition |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am wiring the dual Lightspeed ignition systems on my EZ this weekend. I
>plan to run from the two batteries directly through individual fusible
>links (22AWG), then 18AWG or 20AWG 22759/16 for each through individual
>Carling SPST switches, and 18AWG/20AWG back to the Lightspeed boxes
>located above the spar.
>
>My questions:
>
>Is this an acceptable set-up given I do not have main/aux fuse holder type
>hot buses?
No, IF you have fuseblock battery busses, you can certainly
consider running an ignition system from one of the fuses.
But if you're more comfortable with the robustness of the
fusible link, it can be tied off the fuseblock feeder stud
-OR- attached directly to hot side of battery contactor
if you don't have battery busses other than electronic
ignition.
>If I wanted to use the switch breakers I planned to use initially (they're
>still sitting in the panel), could I use a fusible link at the batt end to
>protect the wire from batt to switch, and use the switch to protect the
>wire to the Ignition boxes?? I'm not sure that's an acceptable practice...
>or practical... or functional...
>
>Can I use 22AWG links with 20AWG, or is this not enough 'breathing space'?
>Klaus says 18AWG or 20AWG should be used. Perhaps 22AWG links and 18AWG?
22/18 would be fine.
>Can I get some silicon covered fibreglass sleeving to suit directly from
>you? I couldn't see it on B&C's website. Perhaps you know a good place to
>pick some up.
B*C offers the FLK-1 kit that has butt-splices, wire and
silicone sleeve . . . .
I like the fast action of fuses to minimize excitement
should circuit protection be called upon to mitigate
damage . . . and you do have two ignition systems so
SYSTEM reliability is only mildly influenced by fuses
vs. fusible links.
On the other hand, the likelihood that circuit protection
for ignition systems will EVER be called upon to operate
is small too. Sooooo . . . I'd be comfortable with
either approach.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Hi all,
I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good
light dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting?
I actually want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting
on some instruments, and a chart light.
Thanks!
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
If you are successful, let me know the secret.
I have two dimmers from Van's. One is for cabin/panel/post lights the
other is for things in the panel. One post light works like I hoped it
would. But that's all. The TruTrak AP backlight dims down, then goes
full bright. The EI fuel guage does nothing. The trim indicators just
spaz as the dim is adjusted, etc, etc.
What's the trick?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Dj Merrill said:
>
> Hi all,
> I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
> Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good
> light dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting?
> I actually want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting
> on some instruments, and a chart light.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Installation Details |
>
>
>Try this
>http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/rings2.html
>and this
>http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/nylonflags2.html
>and here
>http://www.hillsdaleterminal.com/quickdisconnects2.html
>
>Amazing what a few keystrokes on google will produce in 0.12 seconds...
Note that these products are mainly 22AWG and fatter. Only
the first link speaks to the 20-24AWG wire range . . . these
are the next step down (and the smallest) insulated
terminals I'm aware of . . . they're yellow in color
(the size vs. color cycle runs red, blue, yellow, red,
blue, etc). I've seen this series of terminal in a number
of applications on certified ships . . . but be aware
that the PIDG tools commonly available don't include
this smaller size in their crimping capabilities.
Note that the links speak to uninsulated, two
piece (terminal and plastic insulator only), and
three piece (terminal, insulator =AND= insulation
grip sleeve) styles of terminal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
>
>Hi all,
> I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
>Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good
>light dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting?
>I actually want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting
>on some instruments, and a chart light.
>
>Thanks!
Sorry 'bout this. There's a package cited in the What's New
index but not yet on the master index page. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/DimmerFabrication.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | ELT ground plane |
As one of the last items, after the upholstery, I'm installing an ELT in my
Cozy IV.
The ELT book says it wants a 3 ft ground plane - 6 * 18 inch legs of copper
foil tape on a horizontal surface. Yea right!
I thought of using the stainlesss steel firewall, which is of course is
vertical, but I guess this way I'd only get found if I was stuck in the
ground nose first.
Any suggestions?
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELT ground plane |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
The ELT is just another VHF comm antenna - a dipole like
you use for your other comm antennas (in your winglets?) would
be the best thing as far as performance. Because of the somewhat
questionable effectiveness of ELT's as a SAR tool, I don't think
I'd lose a whole lot of sleep if you don't have an ideal antenna
for it...
You can test the effectiveness whatever antenna you cook up by
unplugging the ELT from it and plugging in another comm
radio (handheld?) and do some signal strength and range trials.
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD
>
>
> As one of the last items, after the upholstery, I'm installing an ELT in
> my Cozy IV.
> The ELT book says it wants a 3 ft ground plane - 6 * 18 inch legs of
> copper foil tape on a horizontal surface. Yea right!
>
> I thought of using the stainlesss steel firewall, which is of course is
> vertical, but I guess this way I'd only get found if I was stuck in the
> ground nose first.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> John Slade
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT ground plane |
John,
I got the ACK ELT, and it had the same instructions. I used the 6 * 18" foil legs
glued to the interior of the fuselage. although not flat, they curve with the
fuselage, I believe that they will work okay.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From: John Slade
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELT ground plane
>
> As one of the last items, after the upholstery, I'm installing an ELT in my
> Cozy IV.
> The ELT book says it wants a 3 ft ground plane - 6 * 18 inch legs of copper
> foil tape on a horizontal surface. Yea right!
>
> I thought of using the stainlesss steel firewall, which is of course is
> vertical, but I guess this way I'd only get found if I was stuck in the
> ground nose first.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> John Slade
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gianni Zuliani" <gianni.zuliani(at)bluewin.ch> |
Hi Bob,
I'm planning to install one NAV/COM and one GPS/COM, none of which has the nice
feature to monitor the stand-by communication frequency. Doing away with an audio
panel, how about parallel the two receive-audios and use a simple toggle
switch for transmit-audios and keyline? Would it be useful and feasible, in your
opinion? How? What would happen when double receiving?
I'd appreciate your opinion and suggestions.
Gianni
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
DJ,
I built my dimmer from a 1992 Sport Aviation Article for about $4 at the
Shack
(http://flyboybob.com/images/kr2/n52bl/electric%20and%20instrument/dimmer01.
gif). The unit is rated at 5 amps without heat sink and 15 amps with heat
sink. I didn't use a heat sink and am running 10 post lights, 10 indicator
switches, 6 meter back lights, uMonitor, Nav/Com, Transponder, and GPS. It
was a bit of a chore to "balance" the lighting so that the brightness of all
devices was uniform. I ended up with two outputs, one directly from the
dimmer and a second one through a 20W 8ohm resistor to a few of the lights
that seemed to come on too quickly. Also I was using salvage post lights so
I had to make sure that all the bulbs were of the same rating. Now the
panel has a uniform glow across the range of the dimmer.
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dj
Merrill
Subject: AeroElectric-List: dimmer circuit
Hi all,
I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good
light dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting?
I actually want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting
on some instruments, and a chart light.
Thanks!
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Installation Details |
So, what's the answer?
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Note that these products are mainly 22AWG and fatter. Only
> the first link speaks to the 20-24AWG wire range . . . these
> are the next step down (and the smallest) insulated
> terminals I'm aware of . . . they're yellow in color
> (the size vs. color cycle runs red, blue, yellow, red,
> blue, etc). I've seen this series of terminal in a number
> of applications on certified ships . . . but be aware
> that the PIDG tools commonly available don't include
> this smaller size in their crimping capabilities.
>
> Note that the links speak to uninsulated, two
> piece (terminal and plastic insulator only), and
> three piece (terminal, insulator =AND= insulation
> grip sleeve) styles of terminal.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil |
| Subject: | OBAM vs. Certified thread |
I "lifted" this from another list. Marie Antoinette has nothing on this guy.
Wondering how people on this list differ from this philosophy.
Jerry Eichenberger
Sent Thursday, August 28, 2003 8:15 pm
To drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil
Cc
Bcc
Subject RE: SWPC: GA's future, and pessimism
Drew - We just don't agree. At my airport alone, there are many new (less
than 10 year old) airplanes. The hangar next to mine houses a brand new
182. Across the way from mine, there's a year old Saratoga.
The reason that airplanes are, as some see it, built to old technology,
ought to be obvious - first, it works. Next, anything new has some risks,
and airplanes aren't the place to take unneeded risks, and third, the costs
to certify new things are tremendous.
I, for one, am prefectly happy with a Lycoming engine that runs and lasts.
I don't need some fancy new ignition system just to say it's new, nor do I
need a FADEC control to keep me from setting both MP and RPM where I want
them, instead of where some software engineer though best.
Also, except for a very few (the new RV may change that), homebuilts are 2
place airplanes. Very few of the larger homebuilts get made.
I'm just one who likes change for the sake of safety and real improvement,
but not just for the sake of change alone.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil [drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil]
Subject: Re: SWPC: GA's future, and pessimism
So, despite the enthusiasm about new and incredible developments, most have
which have been around since the late 1970s, why are the certified aircraft
sold today built to 1930s standards? All the good ideas are currently being
used in OBAM aircraft. Despite going to Osh every year since 1988, don't
you get a little jaded seeing all those terrific ideas which never find
their way into certified GA aircraft?
I'm not a pessimist. I think the homebuilt, or OBAM movement, has
incredible up-side. I just think the commercially-available, new certified
GA aircraft have been legislated and litigated out of existence.
Drew
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Eichenberger <jeichenberger(at)ehlawyers.com>
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:48 pm
Subject: SWPC: GA's future, and pessimism
> You guys are a bunch a pessimists. Did you go to Oshkosh this
> year? I did,
> as I do every year since 1988.
> Every aviation publication is abuzz with all of the new stuff -
> airframes,avionics, engine (both gas and diesel) on display.
> Those same pubs are
> praising the attitudes, crowds, and general "high" that seems to be
> abounding now.
> IMHO, having been at this since 1965, we have as much enthusiasm
> in 2003 as
> I've seen since the late 1970s.
> We won't see the kinds of numbers of new airplanes that we saw in
> 1978, when
> 19,000 new airframes rolled out of all of the factories combined.
> But it's
> getting better every week now, since the bottom was hit a few
> years ago.
> Homebuilts are great, and I hope that side of the GA world
> continues to
> grow. But the majority of pilots, nationwide, have neither the
> time, skill,
> nor inclination to build even a "quick-build" kit. The only thing
> that I'd
> want flying in an airplane that I built would be a rabid animal
> that I
> wanted to kill.
> The nice thing about opinions is that we all have them, and none
> can be
> proved wrong.
> Jerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Installation Details |
>
>
>So, what's the answer?
>Denny
No particular answer to this posting . . . just re-enforcing
the notion that 24AWG and certainly 26AWG crimp products
are at the extreme limit of readily available and easily
implemented technology.
With respect to forging ahead with tools and materials
already in-hand, we can referring to the second paragraph
from the bottom on my earlier other post . . .
"Getting back to your wire question: If you really need
to put a fast-on or other crimped terminal on so small
a wire, the only thing you can do is strip extra long
and double or quad-up the strands to better fill the
wire grip space in the terminal. Also, put a piece of
heatshrink over the end of the wire to increase its
insulation diameter to let masquerade as the kind of
wire it would like to be if it ever grows up."
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:29, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Sorry 'bout this. There's a package cited in the What's New
> index but not yet on the master index page. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/DimmerFabrication.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
That's great! Thanks!!
Please forgive me - this is a newbie question:
Where can I buy that kit, and what is the price?
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."
-Anonymous
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
While grabbing some epoxy at the local auto store I ran across "Start Me Up". This
is an little
device the size of a couple packs of playing cards with a cigarette lighter connector.
With a dead battery, one plugs this into the connector and five minutes
later--vroom. (One presumes). See one here--
www.startmeup.com and many other places if you do a google search.
The device is 36 volts and one-time use and weighs very little. It costs about
$25 so they wind up on the discount racks after a while for $10. Lifetime is better
than five years so this is a real deal.
How this thing works: The insides contain a 6-stack of 6V Polapulse batteries,
and (probably) no current limiting. With a dead battery, this thing will bring
up the charge level to the point where the engine will start in a few minutes.
Then the battery pack is dead.
See: www.polaroid-oem.com/pdf/batteries.pdf
This might be very nice as an emergency backup device. I would certainly consider
it.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept ME a member.
--Groucho Marx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>mail.flyboybob.com"
>
>DJ,
>
>I built my dimmer from a 1992 Sport Aviation Article for about $4 at the
>Shack
>(http://flyboybob.com/images/kr2/n52bl/electric%20and%20instrument/dimmer01.
>gif). The unit is rated at 5 amps without heat sink and 15 amps with heat
>sink. I didn't use a heat sink and am running 10 post lights, 10 indicator
>switches, 6 meter back lights, uMonitor, Nav/Com, Transponder, and GPS. It
>was a bit of a chore to "balance" the lighting so that the brightness of all
>devices was uniform. I ended up with two outputs, one directly from the
>dimmer and a second one through a 20W 8ohm resistor to a few of the lights
>that seemed to come on too quickly. Also I was using salvage post lights so
>I had to make sure that all the bulbs were of the same rating. Now the
>panel has a uniform glow across the range of the dimmer.
This configuration of solid state dimmer was incorporated
into Cessna light twins about 1981 and into Bonanzas and
Barrons about the same time. I got to redesign the circuit
for Beech some years later. Seems the circuit is VERY
intolerant to shorts. Further, post lights are noteworthy
for their shorting propensity. It was not uncommon for a
Beech factory dimmer assembly in a new airplane to be the
second or third one installed before the airplane made
it out the door.
I developed a fold-back current-limited, 4-channel
dimmer that simply went into passive shutdown if shorted.
Their assembly-line failure rate went down to almost
zero.
Dimmers fabricated from the linear, three-terminal
regulators go first into current limit followed by
temperature limited shutdown. While a microsecond long
short on the emitter-follower dimmer cited above will
send it to Never Never Land, both the 3-terminal
linears and certainly circuits designed for short
tolerance will prove much more user friendly.
I can probably resurrect a schematic of the fold-back
limited circuit if anyone wants it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing wires - test results. |
>
>
> >
> >Why not insert a screw through a countersunk piece of scrap fiberglass
> >layup, and bond it with epoxy to the fuselage wall. Screw is captured
> >between 1" square fiberglass and wall of fuselage.
> >Bill schertz
>
> Do up some samples and see how much "oomph" it takes
> to pull it off straight (pure tension), sidways
> (pure shear) and pushing it over (bending). If
> you like the numbers you see, then this will
> work for you. I'm expecting tensile and shear
> strengths on the order of 200-500 pounds (at
> 160F) and expect to see the threaded stud bend
> before the bond tears loose.
Did the pull and shock tests with several epoxy cements
on the proposed bonded-studs. Pull tests were excellent,
but a light tap with a hammer would break the bond between
the cements and smooth surfaces. A low temperature to high
temperature excursion parted the joint with no extra force.
Preliminary tests with an acrylic adhesive are much more
encouraging . . . more tomorrow.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | your note of August 9 |
I am presently involved in building a single seat wooden biplane
called an Isaacs Fury,(7/10 rep of Hawker Fury-predecessor
to Hurricane)which will be fitted with a 1OOHP Rotax 912S
engine. Most things are nearing completion except the
engine + instrument installation. The most daunting of
the aforementioned being the electrics!!
Electrics are the easy and fun part . . .
My Dad is a consultant electrical engineer, who I don't want to
pester too much, and has no experience in the aeronautical side
of electrical installations. However I am conversant with the
"nuts and bolts" of wiring, but I could certainly do with some
of your expertise/experience, do feel a little overwhelmed, as
I would like a quality + reliable installation .... ! !
If you've followed any of the conversations on the AeroElectric
List or read much of my writing, you'll understand that my
definition of "reliable" has more to do with designing
a failure tolerant system as opposed to failure proof.
The first is easy, the second nearly impossible.
Plan for two RG batteries, 40A alternator + the following to be
powered:
Why two batteries? If a 40A alternator, I presume this
is a direct or belt driven alternator in addition
and external to the existing 18A alternator on the
Rotax?
*Tum-Co-Ordinator
*Clock
*GPS
*Transponder
*Radio
*Fuel Pressure Gauge
*Fuel Level Gauge-Later??
*Voltmeter
*No Lights-Yet?
*CrowbarOVM unit + Aux.Batt.Management Module fitted
Will your Aeroelectric Book have all the answers, or can you assist
me now please?
Can't predict that outcome. Take a quick pass
through the book and we'll continue the conversation from there.
A few little questions for you;-
I)How do I de-crypt your PK-wirebook? I ain't heard of AutoCad.
You can download the CD rom from my website which includes
an old Windows based cad program that will open and edit
the .dwg drawing files offered from the website.
2)Why do manufactures use solenoids for battery isolation and not
those big manual isolators say for agricultural vehicles?
Guess I don't know what these are. Can you point me to
a website that describes them and how they work?
3)If a voltmeter is fitted, why fit a low voltage light too?
You need an ACTIVE notification of low voltage. Voltmeters
tend to be overlooked/ignored for too long.
4)Would a auto or motorcycle "fuse box" be okay or stupid?
I recommend fuseblocks. See articles on website about
fuses vs. breakers at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/fuseorcb.html
and fuseblocks at
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?7X358218
5)There's an a/c breakers nearby could I purchase a cheap loom+
use The wire off it? Or again would this be a foolhardy idea?
I'd recommend you start from scratch using materials
and techniques you understand and trust.
6)Seems funny that your're prepared to modify the Piper Ground
Power Jack so much-the basic design must appeal to you....
Not necessarily, it's just that US fixed base operators
have ground power cables to fit this connector. It's an
okay connector but with lousy wire connection technique
for the stock part. Fabricating a real attachment stud
gets past the most troubling feature of the stock design.
7)What does B&C stand for?
BILL and CELESTA Bainbridge . . . owners of B&C Specialty
products.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List to
continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to share
the information with as many folks as possible. A further
benefit can be realized with membership on the list. There
are lots of technically capable folks who can offer suggestions
too. You can join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS "D" 10 software |
Bob:
In a hurry with my new toy, I bought the Radio Shack serial>USB cable,
$45.00! That did not work, so I ordered a cable from DELL with FTD1 chip set.
This was recommended by someone who had this problem . DELL said, if it does not
work, I can send it back. Mean time E-mail continues to come in and a great
website is www.shopnow123.com. A lot of people have got this cable that
apparently works---$9.75! There are also a number of other electronic gismos,
people
may like to see. Check it out. I want thank you, Bob, for the seminar in
Nashville this past Feb, got my first crack of making an electrical harness for
my
EFIS 10. Mean time I still amazed at many of the manufacturers who offer
products knowing there is a possible problem and leaving the consumer with
???????????. In my case, I look at it as a chanllenge to resolve the problem. Others
find it unfair, poor business practice or whatever; And rightly so, if you pay
for something you should get what you pay for or at least the technical
support to resolve issues. If not, send the product back. Its a judgement call,
however, the OBAM community would not be where it is today if we all elected not
to participate. Concerning the small manufacturers, there biggest asset is the
consumer R&D. There is a lot of talent out there. We all benefit no matter
what your decision is.
I will let people now how this comes out. I will either be 10.00 or 100.00
down. The Radio Shack cable is going back.
Regards,
Ed Silvanic
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
'lectric Bob wrote:
<<
I developed a fold-back current-limited, 4-channel
dimmer that simply went into passive shutdown if shorted.
>>
Bob,
From this I infer that if there is a short in the lighting circuitry, that
you only loose a quarter of the lights, (one of four channel's). If my
inference is correct, I would be very interested in your offer to look up
the circuit.
Thanks,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS "D" 10 software |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
> The Radio Shack cable is going back.
If I had a nickle for every time somebody said THAT... =)
Thanks for the pointers to the other sites that sell the FTDI cables, folks.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brusehaver <cozytom(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switches |
Maybe in some previous 25 years, but more recently
radios stay on in cars ('96 camaro, '80 450SL for
sure) when the starter is turning.
ktlkrn(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> Simple, in a car (at least in the past 25 years) when you turn the key to
> light the engine all other power to accessories is cut, i.e. an "avionics
> master switch."
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unstable charging system . . . |
>I will keep you informed as I progress with the repair. Reference the
>split master, I did purchase a new Piper type split master because of
>problems with the original one I installed in 1996 (and it was used). The
>expense was quit high compared to the Cessna replacements, but things were
>all ready set up for ring/screw type connector instead of the spade type.
Actually, the spade terminals are superior to the
ring/screw terminals but that's another issue.
>Any tips on checking the switch to somehow insure its level of functioning?
It takes a micro-ohmmeter to measure on resistance for
a switch . . . generally not a part of most shop tools.
I paid more than I want to recall for mine!
>Thanks again, I will get to work.
It would be interesting to have the switch you take
out of your airplane for testing.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
Larry,
Some devices are dimmed by applying 12v to the appropriate pin, rather than a variable
output from a dimmer control. It's usually recommended to wire these
to the nav light switch, so that they dim when the nav lights are switched on.
The EI fuel gauge & the MAC servo indicators function this way.
I was looking at a Trutrak wiring diagram last night & you have to ground one pin
& wire the dimmer to another to make it work. I'm not sure which model that
was for & yours may be different.
Regards,
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:54:08
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
>
>If you are successful, let me know the secret.
>
>I have two dimmers from Van's. One is for cabin/panel/post lights the
>other is for things in the panel. One post light works like I hoped it
>would. But that's all. The TruTrak AP backlight dims down, then goes
>full bright. The EI fuel guage does nothing. The trim indicators just
>spaz as the dim is adjusted, etc, etc.
>
>What's the trick?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>mail.flyboybob.com"
>
>'lectric Bob wrote:
>
><<
> I developed a fold-back current-limited, 4-channel
> dimmer that simply went into passive shutdown if shorted.
> >>
>
>Bob,
>
> From this I infer that if there is a short in the lighting circuitry, that
>you only loose a quarter of the lights, (one of four channel's). If my
>inference is correct, I would be very interested in your offer to look up
>the circuit.
I dug back into some old notebooks. I suspect this
sketch is not the final configuration but it's
been adjusted for ballpark values for 14v operation.
http://216.55.140.222/temp/FoldbackDimmer.gif
With a little study of the circuit, you'll find
a crude but much more effective voltage stabilizer
circuit than what the simple pot/transistor
combination offers (and some what degraded from what
we can do today with the adjustable 3-terminal
regulators).
Note that if the load is shorted to ground,
all necessary bias to get conduction in Q2
is lost. Q1 shuts down completely.
The only current flowing is that through
R which is startup current. The value
of R varies depending on how many lamps are
being controlled. I think I ended up with
680 ohms for the biggest string of 28v lamps.
Try 330 ohms for 14 volt strings.
Alternatively, one can eliminate R entirely
and incorporate a startup oscillator built from
a CD4093 schmidt-trigger gate array and a couple
of components.
The first stage is a square wave oscillator
running approx 1 Hz. The remaining three
gates are paralleled to make a "power
amplifier" . . .
The value for C is something on the order
of 500 pF. What we want to do is hit the
base of Q2 with a very narrow turn-on
pulse about once per second. If you short
the output of your dimmer, the think simply
lays down except for periodic, millisecond
attempts to stand up. Power dissipation
in this mode is very low but the ability
to pick up a large lamp-load (in spite of
low cold-resistance of filaments) is very good.
One startup oscillator can drive multiple
dimmers . . .
Obviously, the parts count of this approach
is much higher than for current production
offerings from B&C using the 3-terminal
regulators . . . but it's bullet-proof
for tolerance to dead shorts of any duration
on the outputs. Electro-Mech built several
thousand of these things for the Bonanzas and
Barons. I'll have to wander over on the
production line and see if they're still
using this product.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OBAM vs. Certified thread |
>
>I "lifted" this from another list. Marie Antoinette has nothing on this
>guy. Wondering how people on this list differ from this philosophy.
>
> Jerry Eichenberger
>Sent Thursday, August 28, 2003 8:15 pm
>To drew.schumann(at)us.army.mil
>Cc
>Bcc
>Subject RE: SWPC: GA's future, and pessimism
>
>
>Drew - We just don't agree. At my airport alone, there are many new (less
>than 10 year old) airplanes. The hangar next to mine houses a brand new
>182. Across the way from mine, there's a year old Saratoga.
>The reason that airplanes are, as some see it, built to old technology,
>ought to be obvious - first, it works.
so does the hammer . . . relatively unchanged for
millennia. But no modern carpenter could keep up
with his nail-gun wielding compatriots by swinging
a hammer . . .
>Next, anything new has some risks,
>and airplanes aren't the place to take unneeded risks,
??? good engineering strives for product improvement
such that changes reduce risk by increasing service life,
producing failure tolerant systems, or REDUCING dependency
upon the human operator to make the RIGHT decision and take
the RIGHT action every time . . .
> and third, the costs
>to certify new things are tremendous.
He's got that right. Check out the inflation
calculators on the 'net. One that I use suggests
that gasoline I used to pay $0.40/gallon for in 1960
is CHEAPER today than it was back then. Had $0.40
gas grown at the rate of inflation, it would cost
$2.37/gallon today.
Okay, how about a C-172 that cost as I recall about
$7500 in 1960. It should cost under $50,000 today.
Not so. In spite of super-inflated costs, I'll venture
to suggest that the C-172 of today is not a whole
lot better than 1960.
>I, for one, am prefectly happy with a Lycoming engine that runs and lasts.
>I don't need some fancy new ignition system just to say it's new, nor do I
>need a FADEC control to keep me from setting both MP and RPM where I want
>them, instead of where some software engineer though best.
Hmmmm . . . bet he'd like to be driving the Model T
with driver operated spark advance controls and primer!
Could it be that some software engineer and engine designer
were able to figure out EXACTLY what the engine needs?
I really like being able to start the car in a few seconds
on a minus 10 day and not even have to touch the gas
peddle. If they could make my airplane engine equally as
friendly at the same price as the one in my GMC,
whoopti-doo!
>Also, except for a very few (the new RV may change that), homebuilts are 2
>place airplanes. Very few of the larger homebuilts get made.
But the vast majority of flying in light aircraft is
with 2 or less folks. Need more room? Rent a bigger
airplane for the odd trip that requires more hauling
ability. I've been doing just that for over 20 years.
Works really great.
>I'm just one who likes change for the sake of safety and real improvement,
>but not just for the sake of change alone.
If he's pleased with the state of the art for his
segment of the hobby, then I am pleased for him. I have
no illusions about what we do here taking hold and
becoming the philosophy-of-choice for a majority
of OBAM aircraft. Without the mandate of government to
control direction, what we're doing will probably
never be practiced by more than 10% of the OBAM
community . . . and that is as it should be.
Let's not give the Jerrys of the world too hard
a time, if we're to enjoy our positions at the
upper end of the bell curve, there MUST be
occupants of the lower end of the curve. We
can invite and encourage them to join us but
not be too upset if they choose not to. If they're
satisfied where they are then I suggest there's
little value in trying to convince them that they
should not be satisfied.
The bell curve is a fact of nature and science
that cannot be tampered with. For every exemplary
activity there MUST be a counter-balancing mediocre
activity. Government believes that it can fool
around with mother nature but only succeeds in
"leveling the playing field" such that EVERY
activity is mediocre.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aucountry(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OBAM vs. Certified thread |
In a message dated 08/28/03 10:07:34 PM, bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
> He's got that right.=A0 Check out the inflation
> calculators on the 'net.=A0 One that I use suggests
> that gasoline I used to pay $0.40/gallon for in 1960
> is CHEAPER today than it was back then. Had $0.40
> gas grown at the rate of inflation, it would cost
> $2.37/gallon today.
>
Gas here in California is $2.15 for cheap stations and up to $2.95 for full
serve.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Switching On with Lightspeed |
Fellow Listers:
What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto and the Lightspeed
Plasma II ignition system that produces a similar Aeroelectric Connection-type
"lockout" feature for impulse-only starting. Also what failure mode
would suggest a 5A CB vs an in-line fuse off the hot battery bus as directed
by the installation manual. Breakers bug me.
As always thanks for the intelligent support.
Greg Grigson
Honolulu
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
Just curious, why not start with *both* the impulse mag and the LSE hot?
That's what I've got -- Slick impulse-coupled mag on the bottom plugs, LSE
Plasma II on the top plugs. I just flip everything on and crank it. Well,
at least that's the plan.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Grigson" <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switching On with Lightspeed
>
> Fellow Listers:
> What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto and
the Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system that produces a similar
Aeroelectric Connection-type "lockout" feature for impulse-only starting.
Also what failure mode would suggest a 5A CB vs an in-line fuse off the hot
battery bus as directed by the installation manual. Breakers bug me.
>
> As always thanks for the intelligent support.
>
> Greg Grigson
> Honolulu
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
A while back, there was reply on the list the gave a web site for a multichannel
dimmer. Does anyone remember who this was?
Peter
On 28 Aug 2003 at 10:40, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
> Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good light
> dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting? I actually
> want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting on some
> instruments, and a chart light.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Dj
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> List members.
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
DJ
Try looking at www.a-and-t-labs.com/K11_Dimmer/index.htm
Peter
On 28 Aug 2003 at 10:40, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I've probably missed this looking over the aeroelectric site.
> Does anyone know where I can find a circuit diagram for a good light
> dimming circuit that can be used for instrument lighting? I actually
> want to dim 3 separate circuits, post lights, back lighting on some
> instruments, and a chart light.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Dj
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> List members.
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
Yes, I accomplished this last night. The trims and fuel indicators now
function as they should. The AP is wired as described below, and still
acts a little querky. Maybe I'll ask TruTrak. It's the DF200VS.
Thanks!!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Chris Good said:
>
>
> Larry,
>
> Some devices are dimmed by applying 12v to the appropriate pin, rather
> than a variable output from a dimmer control. It's usually recommended to
> wire these to the nav light switch, so that they dim when the nav lights
> are switched on. The EI fuel gauge & the MAC servo indicators function
> this way.
>
> I was looking at a Trutrak wiring diagram last night & you have to ground
> one pin & wire the dimmer to another to make it work. I'm not sure which
> model that was for & yours may be different.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good,
> West Bend, WI
> RV-6A http://www.rv.supermatrix.com
>
> --------- Original Message ---------
>
> DATE: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:54:08
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>
>>
>>
>>If you are successful, let me know the secret.
>>
>>I have two dimmers from Van's. One is for cabin/panel/post lights the
>>other is for things in the panel. One post light works like I hoped it
>>would. But that's all. The TruTrak AP backlight dims down, then goes
>>full bright. The EI fuel guage does nothing. The trim indicators just
>>spaz as the dim is adjusted, etc, etc.
>>
>>What's the trick?
>>
>>-
>>Larry Bowen
>>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>>http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Re: dimmer circuit |
>
>
>A while back, there was reply on the list the gave a web site for a
>multichannel
>dimmer. Does anyone remember who this was?
I posted about a 3 channel dimmer.
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mstewart(at)qa.butler.com |
autolearn=ham version=2.53
Chris.. You rock!
Thanks for that info. 1000 hours and that item has been bugging(read
blinding) me!
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Good [mailto:chrisjgood(at)lycos.com]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dimmer circuit
Larry,
Some devices are dimmed by applying 12v to the appropriate pin, rather than
a variable output from a dimmer control. It's usually recommended to wire
these to the nav light switch, so that they dim when the nav lights are
switched on. The EI fuel gauge & the MAC servo indicators function this
way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What does the OV light have to do with |
engine monitor
>
>
>Hello Everybody,
>
>Monday was the first time I've powered up my panel, did put up part by part
>by adding fuse after fuse. The good thing, no smoke! I had one or two
>mistakes to correct and a non functioning oil pressure switch. What puzzeled
>me was the readout of the engine monitor temps which showed powered from
>e-bus only, normal 25 deg C, but powered from the main bus via diode came
>down to 3 deg C for CHT.
>
>I've started to shut down item after item and shutting off the OV light
>brought the temps back to normal.
>
>I have an LR-3B, just instead of the inasendent bulb I have a LED with the
>two resistors according Bob's layout, which works perfect.
>
>Any idea what could causing this behaviour? BTW engine is not running during
>this test and OV light is on the main bus, engine monitor on the e-bus.
>
>Thankful for any idea.
>
>Many thanks
Werner, did you slay this dragon? Sorry to take so long
to respond to this but I didn't have any good ideas.
Wondering if you discovered the cause.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire runs/clamps and AEC Bond Studs |
>
>
>A couple quick questions:
>
>
>I'm looking (finally) at running some wire out to the back end of my RV-6
>before I rivet the aft top skins on. I drilled some holes in the bulkheads
>and Van's supplies lots of grommets which I installed. The dilemma I have
>now is how to secure that wire. For the tefzel wire we use, what should I
>use to secure it, adel clamps, zip ties or what? How would I fasten those
>clamps along the floor of the airplane, don't want to drill a hole in the
>skin, double sided tape likely won't stick to the primer or at least stay on
>so.. any suggestions? Also how often should I secure the wire, every 3
>inches every 6 inches, every foot, what? Thanks.
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
Dean, I'm just about done with testing of adhesives to
make an adequate attachment of the bond studs I mentioned
last week. The surplus dealer was also able to dig up about
800 of the critters I illustrated at
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_A.jpg
and
http://216.55.140.222/Pictures/Bond_Stud_B.jpg
If these look like a practical solution to your installation
question, I can make these available to you immediately.
I'll be putting them up on my website catalog page this
weekend. The adhesive of choice would be Eclectic Products
E-6000 stocked in many hardware and craft stores. I
bought my tube from Hobby Lobby.
The bond studs could be placed every 12" or so and used with
ADEL clamps to secure a run of Nylaflo tubing from the
hardware store. This becomes a conduit to run any number of
wires. Conversely, if you have grommet protected holes in
bulkheads, consider running the nylon tubing through these
grommets and then simply push your wire(s) through the
the tubing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
>
>Fellow Listers:
>What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto and
>the Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system that produces a similar
>Aeroelectric Connection-type "lockout" feature for impulse-only
>starting. Also what failure mode would suggest a 5A CB vs an in-line fuse
>off the hot battery bus as directed by the installation manual. Breakers
>bug me.
>
>As always thanks for the intelligent support.
If it were my airplane, two S700-1-3 switches (or equal) would simply
control OFF/ON for both systems. Both would be ON for cranking.
The electronic ignition would run from a battery bus fuse or
fusible link right from the hot side of battery contactor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio switching |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>I'm planning to install one NAV/COM and one GPS/COM, none of which has the
>nice feature to monitor the stand-by communication frequency. Doing away
>with an audio panel, how about parallel the two receive-audios and use a
>simple toggle switch for transmit-audios and keyline? Would it be useful
>and feasible, in your opinion? How? What would happen when double receiving?
>I'd appreciate your opinion and suggestions.
>Gianni
That will probably work just fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT ground plane |
>
>As one of the last items, after the upholstery, I'm installing an ELT in my
>Cozy IV.
>The ELT book says it wants a 3 ft ground plane - 6 * 18 inch legs of copper
>foil tape on a horizontal surface. Yea right!
>
>I thought of using the stainlesss steel firewall, which is of course is
>vertical, but I guess this way I'd only get found if I was stuck in the
>ground nose first.
>
>Any suggestions?
Do you have "the book"? Radials are always the best way
to "ground" a comm antenna on a plastic airplane. They don't
have to be flat. I'd go for the copper tape or foil. You
can buy copper foil from Hobby Lobby or many craft stores.
Cut the radials as wide as practical. 4 radials
is enough but if you can put in more, fine. You can't have
too many. Even if you find tape with an adhesive coating,
I'd make sure they stay connected to the airplane by glassing
over them. Bring radials to a copper or brass disk in center
where you drill a central hole for the antenna and solder
the radials.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Freddie Freeloader <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
Hello Greg,
Friday, August 29, 2003, 9:39:49 AM, you wrote:
GG> At this time I am in the process of purchasing a new Slick mag to compliment
the LSE system.
Why buy a magneto? Why not use dual LSEs on separate electrical
busses? Doesn't seem to make sense to buy such old technology.
--
Best regards,
Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Hall sensor problem??? |
I have about completed the wiring on my all electric -6A, to the point
where I have powered everything up. All instruments and avionics appear
to work and there's been no smoke. Yea!
I haven't started the engine yet, so the alternator and circuitry havn't
been tested. In leiu of the alternator, I hooked a 13.8v/10amp regulated
power supply to the the alternator lead with the ground on the engine
near the alternator
My VM-1000 reads 13.4 volts coming from the power supply but drops to
12.7 when the battery is turned on. Everything works at either voltage
so I am not concerned.
My question really concerns the amperage reading I am getting from the
VM-1000. The VM-1000 uses a Hall Sensor to monitor alternator amperage.
With everything on (avionics, NavAid, instruments, instrument lights,
fuel boost pump, etc.) the amp gage on the VM-1000 reads zero. It reads
one amp with the instrument lights turned off. Turning off some or all
of the electrical equipment doesn't seem to have any effect. By my
calculations, I should be seeing around 7 or 8 amps with everything on.
I don't have the landing lights, nav lights or the pitot heat hooked up
yet so I can't see what happens with some real amp eating devices turned
on.
Do I have a problem, or am I doing something wrong?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
I may have this backwards but the LSE retards the timing to zero for easy
starting while the mag is fixed at 25 deg BTDC. With both ON for starting
won't the mag fire 25 degrees before the LSE, defeating the easy-start
features that the LSE provides? Now you have the same "hard starting"
characteristics of a magneto-only system that has fixed timing at 25 deg BTDC.
scot
>
>
>
> >
> >Fellow Listers:
> >What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto and
> >the Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system that produces a similar
> >Aeroelectric Connection-type "lockout" feature for impulse-only
> >starting. Also what failure mode would suggest a 5A CB vs an in-line fuse
> >off the hot battery bus as directed by the installation manual. Breakers
> >bug me.
> >
> >As always thanks for the intelligent support.
>
> If it were my airplane, two S700-1-3 switches (or equal) would simply
> control OFF/ON for both systems. Both would be ON for cranking.
> The electronic ignition would run from a battery bus fuse or
> fusible link right from the hot side of battery contactor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Hall sensor problem??? |
Charlie,
Do you have the wire going through the hall sensor the wrong way?
Negative current will be displayed as zero.
Dave in Wichita
> I haven't started the engine yet, so the alternator and circuitry
havn't
> been tested. In leiu of the alternator, I hooked a 13.8v/10amp
regulated
> power supply to the the alternator lead with the ground on the engine
> near the alternator
>
> My question really concerns the amperage reading I am getting from the
> VM-1000. The VM-1000 uses a Hall Sensor to monitor alternator
amperage.
> With everything on (avionics, NavAid, instruments, instrument lights,
> fuel boost pump, etc.) the amp gage on the VM-1000 reads zero. It
reads
> one amp with the instrument lights turned off. Turning off some or all
> of the electrical equipment doesn't seem to have any effect. By my
> calculations, I should be seeing around 7 or 8 amps with everything
on.
>
> Do I have a problem, or am I doing something wrong?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What does the OV light have to do with engine |
monitor
Hello Bob,
no problem you've so many things to take care for so such things can happen.
> >Monday was the first time I've powered up my panel, did put up part by
part
> >by adding fuse after fuse. The good thing, no smoke! I had one or two
> >mistakes to correct and a non functioning oil pressure switch. What
puzzeled
> >me was the readout of the engine monitor temps which showed powered from
> >e-bus only, normal 25 deg C, but powered from the main bus via diode came
> >down to 3 deg C for CHT.
> >
> >I've started to shut down item after item and shutting off the OV light
> >brought the temps back to normal.
>
> Werner, did you slay this dragon? Sorry to take so long
> to respond to this but I didn't have any good ideas.
> Wondering if you discovered the cause.
On the first time I've tried to start the engine, I found out, that my
ground to the engine case was no good (I did not remove enough paint on the
engine case). I do not know what the interaction between this and the
regulator might be, but since I fixed this everything is fine.
Had my final inspection from the Swiss FAA (FOCA) on Monday, the Inspector
was impressed from the three bus approach and all the redundancy, but did
not like the fuseblocks not accessible during flight. I gave the link to the
list.
He did like the regulator and was asking if there is a TSO'd version
available.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall sensor problem??? |
>
>
>I have about completed the wiring on my all electric -6A, to the point
>where I have powered everything up. All instruments and avionics appear
>to work and there's been no smoke. Yea!
>
>I haven't started the engine yet, so the alternator and circuitry havn't
>been tested. In leiu of the alternator, I hooked a 13.8v/10amp regulated
>power supply to the the alternator lead with the ground on the engine
>near the alternator
>
>My VM-1000 reads 13.4 volts coming from the power supply but drops to
>12.7 when the battery is turned on. Everything works at either voltage
>so I am not concerned.
>
>My question really concerns the amperage reading I am getting from the
>VM-1000. The VM-1000 uses a Hall Sensor to monitor alternator amperage.
>With everything on (avionics, NavAid, instruments, instrument lights,
>fuel boost pump, etc.) the amp gage on the VM-1000 reads zero. It reads
>one amp with the instrument lights turned off. Turning off some or all
>of the electrical equipment doesn't seem to have any effect. By my
>calculations, I should be seeing around 7 or 8 amps with everything on.
>I don't have the landing lights, nav lights or the pitot heat hooked up
>yet so I can't see what happens with some real amp eating devices turned
>on.
>
>Do I have a problem, or am I doing something wrong?
I believe there are but three things that will foul
up the hall sensor . . . having it on backwards which
will make it read minus amps for alternator output,
a wire unhooked (reading not predictable without
knowing more details of the design) and bad sensor
where again, the reading would be hard to predict.
Your experimental setup for checking this out is sound.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
>
>
>I may have this backwards but the LSE retards the timing to zero for easy
>starting while the mag is fixed at 25 deg BTDC. With both ON for starting
>won't the mag fire 25 degrees before the LSE, defeating the easy-start
>features that the LSE provides? Now you have the same "hard starting"
>characteristics of a magneto-only system that has fixed timing at 25 deg BTDC.
I presumed he was talking about leaving the impulse coupled
magneto on which would deliver usefully timed ignition pulses
along with the LSE system. When getting the critter running,
you can't have too many sparks as long as they're all at or
after TDC.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
You don't have it backwards, but have understated the
requirement. If a magneto that doesn't have an impulse
coupling is enabled during cranking, it will fire the
cylinders before reaching top dead center and kickback,
likely damaging the starter (or your hands). Not a good
idea.
MAP
N34RD
>
>
> I may have this backwards but the LSE retards the timing to zero for
> easy starting while the mag is fixed at 25 deg BTDC. With both ON for
> starting won't the mag fire 25 degrees before the LSE, defeating the
> easy-start features that the LSE provides? Now you have the same "hard
> starting" characteristics of a magneto-only system that has fixed
> timing at 25 deg BTDC.
>
> scot
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Fellow Listers:
>> >What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Starting with LSE only |
Originally I was thinking of the starting question with/without LSE coupled
with impulse mag.
But, the responses sparked a follow on thought: What about starting with
the LSE and then switching to both ignition sources (non-impulse mag). The thought
of eliminating the annual impulse inspection ADs and those extra parts spinning
around seems attractive. If it can work this way...
Aloha,
Greg
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
Just short of 100 years old!!!!!
>
>Hello Greg,
>
>Friday, August 29, 2003, 9:39:49 AM, you wrote:
>
>GG> At this time I am in the process of purchasing a new Slick mag to
>compliment the LSE system.
>
>
>Why buy a magneto? Why not use dual LSEs on separate electrical
>busses? Doesn't seem to make sense to buy such old technology.
>
>--
>
>Best regards,
> Freddie mailto:lists(at)stevet.net
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Switching On with Lightspeed |
The impulse also retards!
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scot Stambaugh" <sstambaugh(at)qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switching On with Lightspeed
>
> I may have this backwards but the LSE retards the timing to zero for easy
> starting while the mag is fixed at 25 deg BTDC. With both ON for starting
> won't the mag fire 25 degrees before the LSE, defeating the easy-start
> features that the LSE provides? Now you have the same "hard starting"
> characteristics of a magneto-only system that has fixed timing at 25 deg
BTDC.
>
> scot
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Fellow Listers:
> > >What type of toggle switches is recommended with one impulse magneto
and
> > >the Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system that produces a similar
> > >Aeroelectric Connection-type "lockout" feature for impulse-only
> > >starting. Also what failure mode would suggest a 5A CB vs an in-line
fuse
> > >off the hot battery bus as directed by the installation manual.
Breakers
> > >bug me.
> > >
> > >As always thanks for the intelligent support.
> >
> > If it were my airplane, two S700-1-3 switches (or equal) would simply
> > control OFF/ON for both systems. Both would be ON for cranking.
> > The electronic ignition would run from a battery bus fuse or
> > fusible link right from the hot side of battery contactor.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starting with LSE only |
>
> Originally I was thinking of the starting question with/without LSE
> coupled with impulse mag.
>
> But, the responses sparked a follow on thought: What about starting
> with the LSE and then switching to both ignition sources (non-impulse
> mag). The thought of eliminating the annual impulse inspection ADs and
> those extra parts spinning around seems attractive. If it can work this way...
>
>Aloha,
>Greg
It's a toss up. Every engine should start just fine with an electronic
ignition only. If you have an impulse coupled mag to go with it, fine . . .
it can be ON for cranking too. If the second ign is a non-impulse coupled
mag, then it should be OFF until the engine starts.
As to dual electronic ign propose by other readers, I've oft suggested
that since (1) most engines come with TWO mags, (2) the supplier won't
given you a fair market discount for shipping an engine sans mags and
(3) 95% of operational improvement due to electronic ignition installation
comes from installing the first electronic system, why not get your money's
worth and use up the mags before you add the second electronic system?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio switching |
My RV-4 is wired exactly this way: one toggle switch to select transmitter.
Both recievers play into the headset simultaniously. I vary the two volume
controls on the radios as needed operationally. This set up has worked fine
for 400 hours and has proven to very convenient and does not require an
audio panel.
The shop that provided the radios did the prewiring cables and did not
provide a diagram so, unfortunately, I can't explaing exactly how it was
done.
Dick Sipp
RV4-250DS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio switching
>
> >
> >
> >Hi Bob,
> >I'm planning to install one NAV/COM and one GPS/COM, none of which has
the
> >nice feature to monitor the stand-by communication frequency. Doing away
> >with an audio panel, how about parallel the two receive-audios and use a
> >simple toggle switch for transmit-audios and keyline? Would it be useful
> >and feasible, in your opinion? How? What would happen when double
receiving?
> >I'd appreciate your opinion and suggestions.
> >Gianni
>
> That will probably work just fine.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio switching |
Richard Sipp wrote:
>
>My RV-4 is wired exactly this way: one toggle switch to select transmitter.
>Both recievers play into the headset simultaniously. I vary the two volume
>controls on the radios as needed operationally. This set up has worked fine
>for 400 hours and has proven to very convenient and does not require an
>audio panel.
>
>The shop that provided the radios did the prewiring cables and did not
>provide a diagram so, unfortunately, I can't explaing exactly how it was
>done.
>
>Dick Sipp
>RV4-250DS
>
The conventional way to do it is a 'passive' summing circuit. A
resistor is tied to each radio's output. The other ends of the
resistors are tied together & routed to the headphone jack. The
resistors should be approx. the same impedance as the load (~600 ohms
each). There will be around a 3 dB loss in output from each radio, but
that's rarely a problem.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | .pdf download problems |
>
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob: having trouble downloading from your site;
>from "whatsnew" I've tried for a week to get DIY Audio Mixer . . . but it
>never downloads; looks like it tries to start, but never
>finishes. Problems with site? or is it on my end? Cheers, Bob Shumaker
>(ten year follower of AEC)
The .pdf files are downloaded by your browser and then handed off
to Adobe Acrobat Reader program. With some combinations of
hardware and software, Adobe is trying to open and display the
document while downloading is still in progress. If this takes
too long (like for a large document and/or slow Internet connection),
the software hangs up.
Try right-clicking the link and telling your browser where to
store the document on your hard drive. Wait until the download
is completed and then us Acrobat to open the document. This
technique has "fixed" the vast majority of reported download
problems. Let me know if this works for you.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Coil Suppression Can Reduce Relay Life? |
Take a look at
http://www.pandbrelays.com/app_pdfs/13c3264.pdf
Comments?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | .pdf download problems |
| From: | "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson(at)rfgonline.com> |
> The .pdf files are downloaded by your browser and then handed off
> to Adobe Acrobat Reader program. With some combinations of
> hardware and software, Adobe is trying to open and display the
> document while downloading is still in progress. If this takes
> too long (like for a large document and/or slow Internet
> connection),
> the software hangs up.
>
> Try right-clicking the link and telling your browser where to
> store the document on your hard drive. Wait until the download
> is completed and then us Acrobat to open the document. This
> technique has "fixed" the vast majority of reported download
> problems. Let me know if this works for you.
For those of you experiencing this issue, you can also completely disable this
"feature." (I recommmend it anyway, as it can be annoying even for those for whom
it "works.") Start Acrobat Reader, and click Edit->Preferences. Under the
"Internet" section, turn off "Allow Fast Web View" and "Allow Speculative Downloading
in Background." Older versions may not have both these options, or they
may not have the same names.
If you then click a PDF link, the file will be downloaded entirely before Acrobat
starts. It will still not be saved locally though, and the method Bob describes
above is the best answer to PDF browser integration problems. Nonetheless,
it's worth doing for those cases where you don't have a link to right-click.
Regards,
Chad
________________________________________________________________________________
ContactUs(at)performanceaeroengines.com, gary(at)aerotronics.com,
Gene(at)onemileup.com, 71663.675(at)compuserve.com,
GILDERMASTERMARSHALL(at)Prodigy.net, rgutowski(at)woh.rr.com, BK(at)newattaero.com,
info(at)bluemountainavionics.com, info(at)dynondevelopment.com,
info(at)lancairavionics.com, info(at)leadingedge-airfoils.com, jennie(at)jdovich.com,
JRun412(at)aol.com, KristaLynNorris(at)aol.com, MarkD.Brown(at)uscm.org,
JNesteroff(at)aol.com, pettittr(at)talawanda.org, Reflector(at)tvbf.org,
MM963(at)quicknet.net, Davidr(at)one.net, Jrhodenbaugh(at)kutol.com, K551(at)aol.com,
Wease61(at)hotmail.com, sales(at)approach-systems.com, sales(at)bandcspecialty.com,
scottb(at)velocityaircraft.com, smith(at)fadec.com, Sportsgirl632(at)aol.com,
support(at)bluemountainavionics.com, TimRhod(at)aol.com
Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
get rid of it:
1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
drives you may have
4. Click "find now"
5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
IT!!!
6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
without opening it.
7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
opening it.
8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
To do this:
a. Open a new email message
b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
d. Copy this message and paste into email.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ageless Wings" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
THIS IS A HOAX!! DON'T DELETE THIS FILE!!!
Just in case you haven't heard this old one yet, this file, jdbgmgr.exe, is
NOT A VIRUS OR WORM OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS DANGEROUS. This email is a
hoax, that is trying to get you to delete one of Windows legitimate files.
You can read all about it here at Symantec:
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
Harley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>> TimRhod(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 4:57 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; avionics(at)garmin.com;
>> Bobnuckolls(at)cox.net; ContactUs(at)performanceaeroengines.com;
>> gary(at)aerotronics.com; Gene(at)onemileup.com; 71663.675(at)compuserve.com;
>> GILDERMASTERMARSHALL(at)Prodigy.net; rgutowski(at)woh.rr.com;
>> BK(at)newattaero.com; info(at)bluemountainavionics.com;
>> info(at)dynondevelopment.com; info(at)lancairavionics.com;
>> info(at)leadingedge-airfoils.com; jennie(at)jdovich.com; JRun412(at)aol.com;
>> KristaLynNorris(at)aol.com; MarkD.Brown(at)uscm.org; JNesteroff(at)aol.com;
>> pettittr(at)talawanda.org; Reflector(at)tvbf.org; MM963(at)quicknet.net;
>> Davidr(at)one.net; Jrhodenbaugh(at)kutol.com; K551(at)aol.com;
>> Wease61(at)hotmail.com; sales(at)approach-systems.com;
>> sales(at)bandcspecialty.com; scottb(at)velocityaircraft.com; smith(at)fadec.com;
>> Sportsgirl632(at)aol.com; support(at)bluemountainavionics.com; TimRhod(at)aol.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>> I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
>>
>> Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
>>
>> a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
>> infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
>> book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
>> which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
>> jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
>> The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
>> automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
>> emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
>> get rid of it:
>> 1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
>> 2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
>> 3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
>> drives you may have
>> 4. Click "find now"
>> 5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
>> IT!!!
>> 6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
>> without opening it.
>> 7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
>> to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
>> opening it.
>> 8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
>> address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
>> To do this:
>> a. Open a new email message
>> b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
>> c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
>> d. Copy this message and paste into email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Slade" <sladerj(at)bellsouth.net> |
Someone said:
> 8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
> address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
> To do this:
> a. Open a new email message
> b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
> c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
> d. Copy this message and paste into email.
No! No! No!
You are advocating thousands and thousands of emails about how to get rid of
a virus, which are almost as annoying as the viruses themselves. It's the
responsibility of each computer user to get the protection and use it. Let's
not fill the bandwidth with chain emails about how to deal with this stuff.
John Slade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivorphillips" <ivor(at)ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
This a hoax and should be ignored
----- Original Message -----
From: <TimRhod(at)aol.com>
; ;
; ; <71663.675(at)compuserve.com>;
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
;
Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
>
> Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
>
> Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
>
> a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
> infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
> book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
> which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
> jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
> The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
> automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
> emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
> get rid of it:
> 1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
> 2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> 3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
> drives you may have
> 4. Click "find now"
> 5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
> IT!!!
> 6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
> without opening it.
> 7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
> to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
> opening it.
> 8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
> address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
> To do this:
> a. Open a new email message
> b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
> c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
> d. Copy this message and paste into email.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
This is a hoax that comes around periodically. jdbgmgr.exe is a real
file and part of the Windows operating system. Do not delete it, and
don't email everybody about it.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TimRhod(at)aol.com
Bobnuckolls(at)cox.net; ContactUs(at)performanceaeroengines.com;
gary(at)aerotronics.com; Gene(at)onemileup.com; 71663.675(at)compuserve.com;
GILDERMASTERMARSHALL(at)Prodigy.net; rgutowski(at)woh.rr.com;
BK(at)newattaero.com; info(at)bluemountainavionics.com;
info(at)dynondevelopment.com; info(at)lancairavionics.com;
info(at)leadingedge-airfoils.com; jennie(at)jdovich.com; JRun412(at)aol.com;
KristaLynNorris(at)aol.com; MarkD.Brown(at)uscm.org; JNesteroff(at)aol.com;
pettittr(at)talawanda.org; Reflector(at)tvbf.org; MM963(at)quicknet.net;
Davidr(at)one.net; Jrhodenbaugh(at)kutol.com; K551(at)aol.com;
Wease61(at)hotmail.com; sales(at)approach-systems.com;
sales(at)bandcspecialty.com; scottb(at)velocityaircraft.com; smith(at)fadec.com;
Sportsgirl632(at)aol.com; support(at)bluemountainavionics.com; TimRhod(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
get rid of it: 1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option 2. In the
file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe 3. Be sure you search your
C: drive and all subfolders and all other drives you may have 4. Click
"find now" 5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe --
DO NOT OPEN IT!!! 6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to
highlight the file without opening it. 7. Now go to "File" on the Menu
Bar and select "Delete". It will then go to the recycle bin -- open the
recycle bin and then delete it without opening it. 8. If you find the
virus, you must contact all the people in your address book so they can
eradicate it in their own address books. To do this: a. Open a new email
message b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to" c.
Highlight every name and add to "BCC" d. Copy this message and paste
into email.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
This is a valid file. Please see,
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html
For details.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TimRhod(at)aol.com
Bobnuckolls(at)cox.net; ContactUs(at)performanceaeroengines.com;
gary(at)aerotronics.com; Gene(at)onemileup.com; 71663.675(at)compuserve.com;
GILDERMASTERMARSHALL(at)Prodigy.net; rgutowski(at)woh.rr.com;
BK(at)newattaero.com; info(at)bluemountainavionics.com;
info(at)dynondevelopment.com; info(at)lancairavionics.com;
info(at)leadingedge-airfoils.com; jennie(at)jdovich.com; JRun412(at)aol.com;
KristaLynNorris(at)aol.com; MarkD.Brown(at)uscm.org; JNesteroff(at)aol.com;
pettittr(at)talawanda.org; Reflector(at)tvbf.org; MM963(at)quicknet.net;
Davidr(at)one.net; Jrhodenbaugh(at)kutol.com; K551(at)aol.com;
Wease61(at)hotmail.com; sales(at)approach-systems.com;
sales(at)bandcspecialty.com; scottb(at)velocityaircraft.com; smith(at)fadec.com;
Sportsgirl632(at)aol.com; support(at)bluemountainavionics.com; TimRhod(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
get rid of it:
1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
drives you may have
4. Click "find now"
5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
IT!!!
6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
without opening it.
7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
opening it.
8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
To do this:
a. Open a new email message
b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
d. Copy this message and paste into email.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
TimRhod(at)aol.com wrote:
>Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
>
>Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
---
Sorry -- not a chance! It is simply a hoax and you've been conned into
deleting a standard part of the Windows OS. Check out www.snopes.com
first next time and save yourself (and all those you just mailed) the
trouble of figuring it out. All you've managed to do is perpetuate the
hoax. But -- everyone has to learn somewhere... :-)
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
This is a bunch of bull *&*&&**
Take a look at the microsoft.com website for yours self !!! At
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;322993
here is the title of the tech article
Virus Hoax: Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java (Jdbgmgr.exe) Is Not a
Virus
FYI
Jeff
Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus, which
was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called jdbgmgr.exe and
is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system. The virus sits
quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is automatically
transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent emails to your
contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to get rid of it: 1.
Go to Start, click on Find or Search option 2. In the file folder option,
type the name jdbgmgr.exe 3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all
subfolders and all other drives you may have 4. Click "find now" 5. The
virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN IT!!! 6. Go
to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file without
opening it. 7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will
then go to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it
without opening it. 8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the
people in your address book so they can eradicate it in their own address
books. To do this: a. Open a new email message b. Click on the icon of the
address book next to the "to" c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC" d.
Copy this message and paste into email.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
, ,
, , <71663.675(at)compuserve.com>,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
,
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
THIS IS A HOAX! see http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/jdbgmgr.htm -----
Original Message -----
From: <TimRhod(at)aol.com>
; ;
; ; <71663.675(at)compuserve.com>;
; ;
; ;
; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ; ;
; ;
; ;
; ;
;
Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
>
> Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
>
> Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
>
> a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
> infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
> book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
> which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
> jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
> The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
> automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
> emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
> get rid of it:
> 1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
> 2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
> 3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
> drives you may have
> 4. Click "find now"
> 5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
> IT!!!
> 6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
> without opening it.
> 7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
> to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
> opening it.
> 8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
> address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
> To do this:
> a. Open a new email message
> b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
> c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
> d. Copy this message and paste into email.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna firewall pass-through |
Bob, et al,
I'm wiring my GPS antenna, for which I've built a little shelf on the
firewall of my RV-7. As you can see in this photo...
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030830_bulkhead_location.jpg
...the antenna wire will pass through the firewall roughly where the X is
marked. I could run one continuous wire of RG-400 all the way to the
antenna, but what I would *much prefer* to do is use a bulkhead connector
like this one:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030830_bulkhead_connector.jpg
The reason I prefer that is because then I have the option of removing the
antenna from the firewall at some point, and I won't have this dangling coax
out there. I would have a short jumper from the firewall to the antenna.
My questions are:
1) If I use such a connector through the firewall, does the fact that the
connector body is in direct contact with the firewall (ground) play any part
in the equation? I presume not, but I wanted to ask.
2) Other than the obvious potential issue of introducing more possible
failure spots (two more connections) into the system, is there any
possibility of signal degradation by using the connector as opposed to a
continuous coax wire?
Please set me straight if this bulkhead adapter is a bad idea. Thanks!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
TimRhod(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Subject: VERY,VERY,VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>I DID FIND THIS AND DELETED IT OFF MY COMPUTER.
>
>Subject: IMPORTANT!!!!!! YOU MIGHT HAVE A VIRUS
>
>a virus has been passed on to me by a contact, whose address book was
>infected. This virus does not come in as an e-mail. Since you are in my
>book, there is a good chance you have been infected too. The virus,
>which was hiding in my c:/Windows/system 32 directory, is called
>jdbgmgr.exe and is not detected by Norton or McAfee Anti-virus system.
>The virus sits quietly for 14 days before damaging the system. It is
>automatically transmitted by the address book, whether or not you sent
>emails to your contacts! Here is how to check for the virus, and how to
>get rid of it:
>1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option
>2. In the file folder option, type the name jdbgmgr.exe
>3. Be sure you search your C: drive and all subfolders and all other
>drives you may have
>4. Click "find now"
>5. The virus has a Teddy Bear icon with name jdbgmgr.exe -- DO NOT OPEN
>IT!!!
>6. Go to "Edit" on the Menu Bar and "select all" to highlight the file
>without opening it.
>7. Now go to "File" on the Menu Bar and select "Delete". It will then go
>to the recycle bin -- open the recycle bin and then delete it without
>opening it.
>8. If you find the virus, you must contact all the people in your
>address book so they can eradicate it in their own address books.
>To do this:
>a. Open a new email message
>b. Click on the icon of the address book next to the "to"
>c. Highlight every name and add to "BCC"
>d. Copy this message and paste into email.
>
See:
http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/cgi-bin/mfs/www/hoaxbusters/archive?link=http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBMalCode.shtml&file=/www/hoaxbusters/HBMalCode.shtml&line=1616#mfs
or go to Google & type "virus hoax" then pick a site & search for
'jdbgmgr.exe'
or,
The Jdbgmgr Hoax/Worm
April 2002/June 2003
There are now two jdbmgr messagess; a hoax and a real worm. Some
miscreant has decided to make a hoax real so you need to be careful what
you do. The jdbgmgr.exe program is a real part of the Windows operating
system. It should normally not be removed though doing so will not
inconvenience most people. The miscreant has created a computer worm
called Recory that overwrites the jdbgmgr.exe program with the worm
code. In either case, do not run the jdbgmgr.exe program if it is sent
to you in an e-mail. In most cases, you do not need to run the real
jdbgmgr.exe program.
The easiest way to recognize the difference between the hoax and the
real version of jdbgmgr.exe is to look at the icon. The program with the
bear icon is the good one and the one with the tools icon is the bad one.
The real jdbgmgr program. The recory worm.
Jump to the hoax
<http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBMalCode.shtml#jdbgmgrhoax> or the worm
<http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBMalCode.shtml#jdbgmgrworm>.
The Jdbgmgr Hoax
The jdbgmgr hoax is almost the same as the sulfnbk hoax
<http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBMalCode.shtml#sulfnbk> in that it tells
you to delete a program that was installed with Windows. jdbmgr.exe is
the Java Debugger Manager and does have an icon that looks like a Teddy
Bear. It is not, normally, a virus. As with all executables, it is not
impossible to have a copy of jdbmgr.exe that is infected by a virus but
that virus will be detected by your antivirus software.
Microsoft has posted the article Q322993
<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q322993> with
information on how to replace jdbgmgr.exe if you have deleted it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna firewall pass-through |
In a message dated 8/30/2003 7:29:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
My questions are:
1) If I use such a connector through the firewall, does the fact that the
connector body is in direct contact with the firewall (ground) play any part
in the equation? I presume not, but I wanted to ask.
2) Other than the obvious potential issue of introducing more possible
failure spots (two more connections) into the system, is there any
possibility of signal degradation by using the connector as opposed to a
continuous coax wire?
Please set me straight if this bulkhead adapter is a bad idea. Thanks!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Hello Dan,
I am sure Bob will have some impressive quantitative performance numbers for
you on this one. The long and the short answer to your question is that your
GPS receiver will experience a decrease in sensitivity due to the antenna
system's decreased performance.(by antenna system, is meant, antenna, transmission
line (coax) and all connections) Coaxial cable is a poor transmission line
in the first place that adds tons of loss to the received signal. Adding a
firewall bulkhead connector will degrade it further. I don't have the experience
to give you numbers with a GPS signal, but adding another connector could
make the difference of cutting the number of satellites that you can reliably
receive at any one time in half.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna firewall pass-through |
Dan, were you on this list last Spring when Bob gave us a link to his
website article on using the end of a stainless steel towel bar/handicapped
grab bar over a hole in firewall through which all wires, etc can pass from
the engine compartment to the cockpit, and be very fire-safe by packing and
wrapping the wires with firesleeve material and using two stainless steel
clamps to secure the wire bundle so no flames are going to go through the
firewall "blow torch" like? Your GPS coax could come through with other
wires, if you are talking of putting the GPS antenna ona shelf in the engine
compartment under a fiberglas cowl.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: <KITFOXZ(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna firewall
pass-through
>
> In a message dated 8/30/2003 7:29:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> My questions are:
>
> 1) If I use such a connector through the firewall, does the fact that the
> connector body is in direct contact with the firewall (ground) play any
part
> in the equation? I presume not, but I wanted to ask.
>
> 2) Other than the obvious potential issue of introducing more possible
> failure spots (two more connections) into the system, is there any
> possibility of signal degradation by using the connector as opposed to a
> continuous coax wire?
>
> Please set me straight if this bulkhead adapter is a bad idea. Thanks!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> Hello Dan,
>
> I am sure Bob will have some impressive quantitative performance numbers
for
> you on this one. The long and the short answer to your question is that
your
> GPS receiver will experience a decrease in sensitivity due to the antenna
> system's decreased performance.(by antenna system, is meant, antenna,
transmission
> line (coax) and all connections) Coaxial cable is a poor transmission
line
> in the first place that adds tons of loss to the received signal. Adding
a
> firewall bulkhead connector will degrade it further. I don't have the
experience
> to give you numbers with a GPS signal, but adding another connector could
> make the difference of cutting the number of satellites that you can
reliably
> receive at any one time in half.
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
, ,
, ,
, <71663.675(at)compuserve.com>,
, ,
, ,
, ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , ,
, , ,
, ,
, ,
, ,
,
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Folks,
Please ignore the previous post. The alleged "virus" is actually a legitimate
part of Windows. The previous post is an attempt to trick you into damaging your
Windows operating system.
Charlie Kuss
>
> From: TimRhod(at)aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/30 Sat PM 04:57:02 EDT
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, avionics(at)garmin.com, Bobnuckolls(at)cox.net,
> ContactUs(at)performanceaeroengines.com, gary(at)aerotronics.com,
> Gene(at)onemileup.com, 71663.675(at)compuserve.com,
> GILDERMASTERMARSHALL(at)Prodigy.net, rgutowski(at)woh.rr.com, BK(at)newattaero.com,
> info(at)bluemountainavionics.com, info(at)dynondevelopment.com,
> info(at)lancairavionics.com, info(at)leadingedge-airfoils.com, jennie(at)jdovich.com,
> JRun412(at)aol.com, KristaLynNorris(at)aol.com, MarkD.Brown(at)uscm.org,
> JNesteroff(at)aol.com, pettittr(at)talawanda.org, Reflector(at)tvbf.org,
> MM963(at)quicknet.net, Davidr(at)one.net, Jrhodenbaugh(at)kutol.com, K551(at)aol.com,
> Wease61(at)hotmail.com, sales(at)approach-systems.com, sales(at)bandcspecialty.com,
> scottb(at)velocityaircraft.com, smith(at)fadec.com, Sportsgirl632(at)aol.com,
> support(at)bluemountainavionics.com, TimRhod(at)aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: (no subject)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna firewall pass-through |
We have our GPS antenna under the cowl as you describe.
I **THINK** I used a bulkhead connector. Don't think I would have tried to
run one cable for the reasons you mention.
Our system (KMD 150) works just fine.
Now, here is what I did to feel OK about doing this.
1. Connected GPS to antenna that was on its "shelf/perch"
2. Went to part of GPS "pages" that shows GPS "signal strength"
3. Compared numbers under different scenarios (cowl off/cowl on etc. ...I
know you are concerned about connectors)
4. On **ALL** scenarios of interest the signal level never varied from "99"
on a given set of satellites with the airplane in a given position.
5. Bolted it all down and flew the plane with no problems do date (~200
hours).
So ... I suggest that instead of the various theories, you simply connect a
cable from the antenna to a bulhead connector and then another cable to the
GPS from the bulkhead connect and see what "signal strength" YOUR GPS gets
on YOUR airplane under YOUR cowl.
But just inc ase you really DO want theories :-) ... My theory ... It will
work just fine. Remember to put the GPS as high up without touching the cowl
as possible. And remember to use good cable with good connectors/crimps.
James
Your mileage may vary ...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:05 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bulkhead adapter for GPS antenna
> firewall pass-through
>
>
> In a message dated 8/30/2003 7:29:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> My questions are:
>
> 1) If I use such a connector through the firewall, does the fact that the
> connector body is in direct contact with the firewall (ground)
> play any part
> in the equation? I presume not, but I wanted to ask.
>
> 2) Other than the obvious potential issue of introducing more possible
> failure spots (two more connections) into the system, is there any
> possibility of signal degradation by using the connector as opposed to a
> continuous coax wire?
>
> Please set me straight if this bulkhead adapter is a bad idea. Thanks!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> Hello Dan,
>
> I am sure Bob will have some impressive quantitative performance
> numbers for
> you on this one. The long and the short answer to your question
> is that your
> GPS receiver will experience a decrease in sensitivity due to the antenna
> system's decreased performance.(by antenna system, is meant,
> antenna, transmission
> line (coax) and all connections) Coaxial cable is a poor
> transmission line
> in the first place that adds tons of loss to the received signal.
> Adding a
> firewall bulkhead connector will degrade it further. I don't
> have the experience
> to give you numbers with a GPS signal, but adding another connector could
> make the difference of cutting the number of satellites that you
> can reliably
> receive at any one time in half.
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey" <dump(at)relaypoint.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OBAM vs. Certified thread |
For 43 years at a 4% average inflation rate over that period I get $2.16
cents. What inflation rate did you use over that period, I gather it was
4.22%??? Where did you get that figure? Was it on a public website? If it
was I'd love to see it.
jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aucountry(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OBAM vs. Certified thread
>
>
> In a message dated 08/28/03 10:07:34 PM, bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
>
>
> > He's got that right.=A0 Check out the inflation
> > calculators on the 'net.=A0 One that I use suggests
> > that gasoline I used to pay $0.40/gallon for in 1960
> > is CHEAPER today than it was back then. Had $0.40
> > gas grown at the rate of inflation, it would cost
> > $2.37/gallon today.
> >
>
> Gas here in California is $2.15 for cheap stations and up to $2.95 for
full
> serve.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
Well, now that you're sitting on 800, how about turning loose some to
us?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Routing wires
>
>I'll take 3 dozen or so. Where do I send the money.
I'll let you know . . . I need to put my hands ON
3 dozen . . . or hopefully, many dozens.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
| Subject: | Voltage Filter?? |
Bob,
Finally got around to trying the gauge without the internal battery. It
doesn't work at all without it so it appears that I'll have to figure
out some sort of power conditioning setup.
Jon
> >I recently installed an automotive temperature gauge in my
> plane. The
> >unit runs on internal battery until bus voltage is around 13.5 volts
> >and then switches to external power. When it switches it beeps and
> >flashes. While idling my bus voltage seems to hover right
> around this
> >range and causes the gauge to flip back and forth between
> internal and
> >external power. It is VERY annoying.
>
> Why do you need internal battery power for a temperature
> gage? How does the instrument behave if you remove the
> battery?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OBAM vs. Certified thread |
Inflation data is published by one of the government agencies. Go to your
local library and talk to the librarian. They can take you right to it.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey" <dump(at)relaypoint.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OBAM vs. Certified thread
>
> For 43 years at a 4% average inflation rate over that period I get $2.16
August 20, 2003 - August 31, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cj