AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cs
December 05, 2003 - December 19, 2003
>
> It takes me seconds before opening the mail to
> dump 95% of the e-mail arriving in my box and to
> black-list offenders so that I don't need to
> make a keep/dump decision on them in the future.
> It also allows one to maintain a friends list that
> will always accept e-mail from certain addresses.
>
> One more potty-mouth response from you sir will get
> you on my blacklist.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( A beginning of the end is marked by )
> ( replacement of experience and common )
> ( sense with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
>
>I have to defend this Tim fellow. A freind of mine sent me the same
>e-mail at
>home, and what happened was he had one of those nasty worms. So please
>ignore
>any e-mails like this, I'm sure he didn't really send it, as it is worded
>exactly like the one I received.
>
>Jeff
Good data point, thanks! Sounds like he may need a good firewall
as opposed to a mail filter!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Robert,
>
>I was at your seminar in Watsonville last month. I'd mentioned that I had
>a Falcon turn coordinator and I'd read that they had a reputation for
>producing radio noise. You said I should get some roof flashing and wrap
>around it 2 or 3 times to control the noise.
>
>I'm just wondering if there's anything lighter, simpler that would
>work? How about aluminum foil? Or some kind of duct insulation or even
>sound proofing material?
It isn't "sound proofing" your looking for. It's magnetic
shielding. This requires a shell of material that will
trap lines of magnetic force emanating from within the
T/C. First, see if you have a noise problem. Then do
the detective work to see if it's magnetic radiation or
electrical conduction. Then craft an experiment for
breaking the propagation mode that causes the
noise problem.
If you do need magnetic shielding, roof flashing is
thin, easily worked and readily acquired. MuMetal is
also thin, light and much more effective than soft
steels . . . but it's a bear to work with and hard
to acquire. But don't do anything until you know you
need it and then use only those techniques that
mitigate your particular problem.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
oops. Left off the "direct line". Here it is. Just "click it" to "fix it".
:-)
UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
James
>
>
>
> "HereBostonTim" (and anyone that gets "unwanted" messages and is wondering
> what is going on),
>
> It looks like someone (a friend ... or enemy of yours) has
> "subscribed" you
> to this email list. They had to know your email address. So that is the
> person to whom you may want to direct your frustration.
>
> Now, to get "UNSUBSCRIBED" to these messages, follow the instructions that
> are listed at the BOTTOM of each message. I have cut and pasted
> the relevant
> URL that you should click and follow. It is a straightforward process.
>
>
> You will need to "unsubscribe" to each mailing list that your "friend" has
> subscribed you to.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> James
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Audio out to Camcorder |
| From: | "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff(at)Smartm.com> |
David,
They have what you need at Aircraft Spruce. $28.95. Plugs between your headset
and the panel. I got one and it works great. No noise, only radios and intercom
talk. Crystal clear. The part number is: 11-00692.
Arthur Treff
Rv-8 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
Larry;
On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a tube
and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics have
something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get cool
air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work with
your installation but it might be something to look into.
Bill
Glasair
> Robert,
>
> Could you recommend a cheaper avionics cooling fan than the one's in the
Spruce catalog? Prices range from $129 up to $272?
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Hi everyone,
Here is a basic discussion regarding magnetic sheilding relevant
to little airplanes...
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae512.cfm
It appears that roof flashing has the requisite magnetic permeability,
is cheap, and readily available.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
>
>
>>
>>
>>Robert,
>>
>>I was at your seminar in Watsonville last month. I'd mentioned that I
>> had a Falcon turn coordinator and I'd read that they had a reputation
>> for producing radio noise. You said I should get some roof flashing
>> and wrap around it 2 or 3 times to control the noise.
>>
>>I'm just wondering if there's anything lighter, simpler that would
>> work? How about aluminum foil? Or some kind of duct insulation or
>> even sound proofing material?
>
> It isn't "sound proofing" your looking for. It's magnetic
> shielding. This requires a shell of material that will
> trap lines of magnetic force emanating from within the
> T/C. First, see if you have a noise problem. Then do
> the detective work to see if it's magnetic radiation or
> electrical conduction. Then craft an experiment for
> breaking the propagation mode that causes the
> noise problem.
>
> If you do need magnetic shielding, roof flashing is
> thin, easily worked and readily acquired. MuMetal is
> also thin, light and much more effective than soft
> steels . . . but it's a bear to work with and hard
> to acquire. But don't do anything until you know you
> need it and then use only those techniques that
> mitigate your particular problem.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NiMH batteries |
>
>
>The other option, is that when useage is sporadic, then alakline or lithium,
>non rechargeables may be the best choice... Their capacity exceeds that of
>rechargeables, their operational cost is far less, and when they are done
>you simply toss them and put in new ones...
I have some that are rechargeable alkaline. I have used them for a year or
two in various devices but never really measured them. Why do I see them
not mentioned at all?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Hackney" <lhackney(at)rglobal.net> |
Thanks Bill,
I too have Garmin radios, guess I'll have to look a little closer at the
radio trays.
Little sidenote: I was at Radio Snack this morning and saw their biggest,
best cooling fan for computers. It was $18.99... Hmmm...
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
>
> Larry;
>
> On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a tube
> and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics have
> something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get
cool
> air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work with
> your installation but it might be something to look into.
>
> Bill
> Glasair
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Could you recommend a cheaper avionics cooling fan than the one's in the
> Spruce catalog? Prices range from $129 up to $272?
> >
> > Larry
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Collins" <philc1(at)ix.netcom.com> |
There are differences among Garmin radios. When I was searching for
radios, I was told by several avionics shops that the traditional Garmin
line of products should have cooling air ducted to the radios to avoid
shortening the life of the radio, while the UPSAT line was engineered
for lower power consumption and did not require additional cooling. Now
that UPSAT has been acquired by Garmin, we should be clear that not all
Garmins have similar requirements.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Hackney
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
Thanks Bill,
I too have Garmin radios, guess I'll have to look a little closer at the
radio trays.
Little sidenote: I was at Radio Snack this morning and saw their
biggest,
best cooling fan for computers. It was $18.99... Hmmm...
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
>
> Larry;
>
> On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a
tube
> and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics
have
> something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get
cool
> air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work
with
> your installation but it might be something to look into.
>
> Bill
> Glasair
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Could you recommend a cheaper avionics cooling fan than the one's in
the
> Spruce catalog? Prices range from $129 up to $272?
> >
> > Larry
> >
>
>
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Larry,
I know I didn't come up with this idea but it made sense to me so I bought a
computer cooling fan to do it. I intend to install the cooling fan under an
opening in the top skin of my RV-8A, behind the windscreen and over the
avionics. The label on the switch that turns it on and off will say
"Defrost".
Hope it works!
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Hackney
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
Thanks Bill,
I too have Garmin radios, guess I'll have to look a little closer at the
radio trays.
Little sidenote: I was at Radio Snack this morning and saw their biggest,
best cooling fan for computers. It was $18.99... Hmmm...
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flmike <flmike2001(at)yahoo.com> |
You might consider one of these if you don't mind
making up some sort of mount and/or tubing adapter:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=220300&item=CF-150&type=store
Also, for those of you looking for EL strip lighting,
I bought a couple of these and other than the adhesive
maybe being a bit wanting, they seem to work fine.
Unfortunately, my son stole mine for use on his Jeep
as an under dash flood light, so I don't know if there
are any aircraft application issues. Works great on a
Jeep though... Guess I'll have to order some more.
http://www.directron.com/bluelightstrip.html
At $10 a pop for 5' with the inverter, it's worth a
shot. (Just don't show it to your kids. If you plan
to, order some extras.)
For fun, check out all the other wacky stuff they sell
for PC case modifications, lights, water cooling kits,
etc. The LM317 based fan speed controllers look an
awful lot like a multi channel panel light
dimmer...hmmm.
Mike
RV-6A
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Finley" <jon(at)finleyweb.net> |
Hi Larry,
Not sure exactly which fan you were looking at but I have generally
found CompUSA type stores to have big computer fans for around $8-$12.
Jon Finley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Hackney
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
Thanks Bill,
I too have Garmin radios, guess I'll have to look a little closer at the
radio trays.
Little sidenote: I was at Radio Snack this morning and saw their
biggest,
best cooling fan for computers. It was $18.99... Hmmm...
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
Thank you Bob!
Dave
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NiMH batteries
>
>
>
>A little off aircraft electronics, but while on the topic of NiMH
>batteries, where would you find the best rechargeable AA pencell type
>NiMH batteries? The ones in the camera stores don't list a mah rating.
>
>I'm heading over to the Wright reenactment and I don't want to worry
>about missing something because of the batteries in my digital camera.
Check out
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45096&item=3062108120
I've got 32 of these cells coming in for specific job. I'll be running
some capacity tests on them. If they're even close to 2200 maH, these
are a deal.
Bob . . .
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Cox" <racox(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Remember when we used batteries? |
Neat idea.
I suspect someone else will have said it by the time I got around to reading
this, but I'll be amazed if FAA allows the use of this device any time soon
on an airliner. And that, I'd think, would be one of the primary markets
for long-duration portable use.
These are the same folks who still act like a cell phone (even though it
doesn't work worth a damn airborne) will make my Boeing snap roll and die.
Now an Airbus, well ...
Ron
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Remember when we used batteries?
>
>
> >
> >Here's the very near term future in fuel cell power.
> >
> >http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2003_03/pr0501.htm
>
> I saw some butane fueled prototypes a couple of years
> ago. You could "fuel" then with the butane lighter
> cans available from most hardware stores. Don't know
> if that product has made it to the marketplace yet or
> not.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Bill Hibbing wrote:
>
>Larry;
>
>On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a tube
>and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics have
>something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get cool
>air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work with
>your installation but it might be something to look into.
>
>Bill
>Glasair
>
If the fitting actually feeds into the unit & not to an external heat
sink, you might want to rethink plumbing it to outside air. Even if you
never fly in the rain, overnight condensation collecting in the tube can
get blown into the circuitry.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
One day, when I had nothing else to do, the urge to remove the top cover
from my Garmin 530 just overwhelmed me. Anyway, the air inlet led from
back to front, the passage was filled with heat sinks. The heat sinks
and passage were completely sealed off from the electronics of the unit.
I don't think moist air would hurt it. YMMV
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie & Tupper England
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
Bill Hibbing wrote:
>
>Larry;
>
>On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a
tube
>and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics
have
>something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get
cool
>air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work
with
>your installation but it might be something to look into.
>
>Bill
>Glasair
>
If the fitting actually feeds into the unit & not to an external heat
sink, you might want to rethink plumbing it to outside air. Even if you
never fly in the rain, overnight condensation collecting in the tube can
get blown into the circuitry.
Charlie
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Effectively an external heat sink. Thanks for the info.
Charlie
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>One day, when I had nothing else to do, the urge to remove the top cover
>from my Garmin 530 just overwhelmed me. Anyway, the air inlet led from
>back to front, the passage was filled with heat sinks. The heat sinks
>and passage were completely sealed off from the electronics of the unit.
>I don't think moist air would hurt it. YMMV
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Charlie & Tupper England
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cooling fan
>
>
>
>
>Bill Hibbing wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Larry;
>>
>>On my Garmin GPS/comm the tray has a built in fitting for attaching a
>>
>>
>tube
>
>
>>and feeding outside fresh air into the unit. If any of your avionics
>>
>>
>have
>
>
>>something like this you can fabricate some tubing (vinyl, etc.) to get
>>
>>
>cool
>
>
>>air to your avionics for almost free. Don't know if this will work
>>
>>
>with
>
>
>>your installation but it might be something to look into.
>>
>>Bill
>>Glasair
>>
>>
>>
>If the fitting actually feeds into the unit & not to an external heat
>sink, you might want to rethink plumbing it to outside air. Even if you
>never fly in the rain, overnight condensation collecting in the tube can
>
>get blown into the circuitry.
>
>Charlie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pitch Trim Motor Slowdown |
I previously posted a question on how to cut down the speed of my 12V DC
pitch trim motor. I got one response, which suggested I use the the
Matronics Mark III adjustable speed governor. I have two issues with
this... first, it is unclear to me what the current capacity of this unit is
(does anyone know that? - I am not using MAC servos)... second, it looks
like a bit of overkill, as I don't want adjustable speed, ground-actuation,
multiple switches - just a permanent slowdown to one speed.
Can anyone explain to me what the design goal is for a DC motor slowdown
circuit? I've been told that a simple dropping resistor could cause the
motor to overheat. Also, I don't want to do something to reduce the torque.
Will a fixed voltage regulator do it, or does it need to be pulsed, or??
Thanks.
Jim Oberst
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Audio out to vieo camera |
"This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of increasing
probability of someone being able to help with this issue.
I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to
get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly reduce
"head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of
instrument reading data collected."
I did this fore selected flights but just stuck the recorder mike into one
earphone and taped the wires for neatness. Adjusted input and it worked
fine.
Took ten minutes.
Ferg Europa A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | To E-Buss or not To E-buss |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob and list,
We are installing the All Electric Airplane on a Budget using Z-13.
We have a 50 amp main alt. and the SD-8 on the vac. pad.
My thoughts are about the elimination of the E-buss.
If we loose the main alternator we would bring the SD-8 on line and simply
turn off non-essential items bringing the total load on the system to 8 amps
or less.
In reviewing the loads on the system we come up with only a few that are not
controlled by a switch. Clock and CD player keep alive and engine
instruments. Clock and CD use less than a mA and will be on the always hot
buss. That leaves the engine instruments as the only other loads not
controlled by a switch. Instrument loads total .94 amps and if we add the
battery contactor at 1 amp this results in a 2 amp load that we would not
have control over. Leaving the question, is 6 amps enough to run the items
we will need for a safe completion of the flight. If the answer is yes, then
why not simply leave the load reduction to the pilot who would switch off
the non essential items and illiminate the E-buss. This gives the pilot the
option of turning on an item that might have been relligated to the main
buss but could be useful for a short period of time and then turned off
again.
It looks like the items we would place on our E-buss run between 5-6 amps.
So the loss of the 2 amps (instruments and contactor) buy simply staying
with the main bus and turning off items to reduce load would seem to make
sense.
So in the event we lost the main alt. ...we would... move the Master to Bat,
move the Aux Alt to on, turn off all unnecissary loads. At the airport,
battery still up, put the gear down and land.
Am I missing something?
Bob your critic of my thinking would be appreciated.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Controls & Grounding |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob and list.
Bob in your book under note 5 you write: "make sure that jackets for engine
controls do not ELECTRICALLY ground both a metal panel and the engine ...
they can easily become a SECOND ground path on the wrong side of the
airplane and create the same problems we're striving to eliminate.
This was for airplanes with battery and engine on opposite ends of the
airplane. I have the conventional engine on front, firewall, panel, battery
under the passenger seat. Do I need to worry about insulating my throttle
and prop controls from the metal panel?
I will also have several other (8 ) push pulls on the panel operating in the
engine compartment. Though none will be connected directly to the engine.
(9 cyl radial M-14). Any concerns?
Another point. In the engine compartment we are using all stainless steel
braided hoses. Several of which run from the metal firewall bulkhead fitting
to the engine. Any concerns?
I am planning on having all electrical equipment grounds run to a instrument
panel ground bus located on the firewall as per your book.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Apollo stuff - last chance |
My account with Apollo absolutely, positively closes Christmas day. Last
chance. About 3k off a CNX 80, $900 off an SL30.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)telus.net |
| Subject: | Grounding of head phone jacks |
Bob,
In one of the earlier postings you mentioned grounding of the head phone jacks
(female) back through the shield and only ground at the intercom/radio end.
I'm building an all metal plane, and will be following this advice, but when I
attach the head phone jack, I was just planning on drilling through a piece of
metal that is of course attached to the airframe.
My question is: Do the head phone jacks have an insolator built in (protecting
it from grounding at this location), or do I need to take some special care.
OR am I worrying about nothing (grounding at both ends acceptable).
I got down to reading your book, and I must say I'm impressed. Anyone on this
site should buy it, well worth the money. I esspecially like the fact that the
solutions are practical and you make it very easy to understand.
Jeff
F1 in progress
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)telus.net |
Hi Bob,
In your book you mention about using dual antennae on the comm side.
What I'm thinking is to build two of the nav antennae you describe in the book,
and put a splitter (any idea where I can get one) in. Yes I know that the nav
is horizontal, and the comm is vertical, but my thinking was that two in the
wingtips should beat one underneath. Or am I out to lunch here? On the
splitter side, I know from commercial radio use, we try and keep the distance
between the base station (or amp) and the actual antenna as short as practical,
and I wonder if I will be loosing too much signal trying to split between two.
Maybe the one on the bottom is the best idea? The distance to each wing tip
antenna will be around 11 feet then to the radio stack will be about.
While I'm on the subject of antennae, does anyone know of a hidden ADF antennae
system?
On both the above subjects, the plane is all metal, so I have only a few places
to hide antennae and still end up with some sort of ground plane (still waiting
for someone to have the idea of hiding one in the gear leg fairings - if the
ground plane is sufficient).
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitch Trim Motor Slowdown |
In a message dated 12/5/2003 11:35:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
joberst@cox-internet.com writes:
I previously posted a question on how to cut down the speed of my 12V DC
pitch trim motor. I got one response, which suggested I use the the
Matronics Mark III adjustable speed governor. I have two issues with
this... first, it is unclear to me what the current capacity of this unit is
(does anyone know that? - I am not using MAC servos)... second, it looks
like a bit of overkill, as I don't want adjustable speed, ground-actuation,
multiple switches - just a permanent slowdown to one speed.
Can anyone explain to me what the design goal is for a DC motor slowdown
circuit? I've been told that a simple dropping resistor could cause the
motor to overheat. Also, I don't want to do something to reduce the torque.
Will a fixed voltage regulator do it, or does it need to be pulsed, or??
Thanks.
Jim Oberst
Hello Jim,
The Matronics unit is probably the slickest way to do the job because you
will still have full tork available at slow speeds. Using a simple dropping
resistor will allow it to run at some lower voltage and slower speed, but also
with lower tork. A DC motor will not overheat this way. A/C motors overheat at
lower than designed voltages because the lower voltage does not allow their
A/C armature to turn up to designed RPM and they lag out of phase with their A/C
field. The heater/air conditioner DC motored blower in your car uses a
simple voltage divider resistor bank to give you 3 or more speeds typically. This
voltage divider is just two or more high wattage resistors wired in series
with the motor switch. The switch picks off one or more resistors to add to the
circuit. I might add that the resistors are in the supply air stream for
cooling.
With the right resistor and heat sink (you could strap the hot little devil
to the motor itself) you just may have the perfect solution for little money.
You will have to experiment (that's what we do right?) to see if say, half
speed (and half tork) will do the job.
How about a couple of push buttons (up/down) in parallel with your normal
pitch trim rocker switch that are wired to a one shot timed relay? A push of
either of the buttons will give you a pre set pulse to the motor at full voltage
but for only a few milliseconds. Repeating the push of the button will
reactivate the timed relay cycle. Here, you will have full tork but for a very
fine
adjustment.
You might toy with using a center tapped ship's battery thus making 6 volts
easily available to the pitch trim motor.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding of head phone jacks |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Jeff,
I can help you with this one. Bob's friends at B&C Specialty Products:
http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html
Sells the perfect Headset/Mic Jack Insulating Washer. The direct link is
below.
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?24X358218#s892
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY
> Bob,
>
> In one of the earlier postings you mentioned grounding of the head phone jacks
> (female) back through the shield and only ground at the intercom/radio end.
> I'm building an all metal plane, and will be following this advice, but when
I
> attach the head phone jack, I was just planning on drilling through a piece of
> metal that is of course attached to the airframe.
> My question is: Do the head phone jacks have an insolator built in
> (protecting
> it from grounding at this location), or do I need to take some special care.
> OR am I worrying about nothing (grounding at both ends acceptable).
>
> I got down to reading your book, and I must say I'm impressed. Anyone on this
> site should buy it, well worth the money. I esspecially like the fact that
> the
> solutions are practical and you make it very easy to understand.
>
> Jeff
> F1 in progress
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reusing batteries |
>
>" The most life any one battery would see would be three years (one in the
>plane and two in the car)."
>
>I don't think so.
It's helpful to explain your deduction. If the airplane has
one battery changed out every year with used battery rotate to
car, then next year, one would be rotating a two year battery
out of the car in exchange for a one-year battery out of the
airplane. If the airplane has two batteries then a one year
battery rotates from main battery to aux battery and two year
old aux battery goes to car. At next annual, a three year old
battery in car gets replaced with another two year old battery
from the airplane. I'll suggest that in later scenario, total
battery service would be three years with two of those years
in the airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To E-Buss or not To E-buss |
>
>Hi Bob and list,
>
>We are installing the All Electric Airplane on a Budget using Z-13.
>We have a 50 amp main alt. and the SD-8 on the vac. pad.
>
>My thoughts are about the elimination of the E-buss.
>If we loose the main alternator we would bring the SD-8 on line and simply
>turn off non-essential items bringing the total load on the system to 8 amps
>or less.
But what if you loose the battery contactor?
>In reviewing the loads on the system we come up with only a few that are not
>controlled by a switch. Clock and CD player keep alive and engine
>instruments. Clock and CD use less than a mA and will be on the always hot
>buss. That leaves the engine instruments as the only other loads not
>controlled by a switch. Instrument loads total .94 amps and if we add the
>battery contactor at 1 amp this results in a 2 amp load that we would not
>have control over. Leaving the question, is 6 amps enough to run the items
>we will need for a safe completion of the flight. If the answer is yes, then
>why not simply leave the load reduction to the pilot who would switch off
>the non essential items and illiminate the E-buss. This gives the pilot the
>option of turning on an item that might have been relligated to the main
>buss but could be useful for a short period of time and then turned off
>again.
>
>It looks like the items we would place on our E-buss run between 5-6 amps.
>So the loss of the 2 amps (instruments and contactor) buy simply staying
>with the main bus and turning off items to reduce load would seem to make
>sense.
>
>So in the event we lost the main alt. ...we would... move the Master to Bat,
>move the Aux Alt to on, turn off all unnecissary loads. At the airport,
>battery still up, put the gear down and land.
>
>Am I missing something?
Yup. The e-bus alternate feed path has two purposes. (1) Second path
to most reliable power source in event battery contactor is lost
and (2) means by which battery only operations loads may be reduced
to minimum en route values for endurance. The fact that you've added
and SD-8 only means that e-bus loads can now be as great as 8-10 amps
so that the battery can be held in reserve for approach to landing
by turning the battery master back on. If the battery master has
failed, difference in outcome of flight is insignificant.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To E-Buss or not To E-buss |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob,
Hope your Saturday is going well.
>> My thoughts are about the elimination of the E-buss.
>> If we loose the main alternator we would bring the SD-8 on line and simply
>> turn off non-essential items bringing the total load on the system to 8 amps
>> or less.
>
> But what if you loose the battery contactor?
> Yup. The e-bus alternate feed path has two purposes. (1) Second path
> to most reliable power source in event battery contactor is lost
Good point.
Bob, is it possible to keep the alternate feed switch, eliminate the E-bus
connecting the feed to the main bus? If possible would you need to use the
diode turned to feed the main bus or eliminate the diode all together?
>(2) means by which battery only operations loads may be reduced
> to minimum en route values for endurance. The fact that you've added
> and SD-8 only means that e-bus loads can now be as great as 8-10 amps
> so that the battery can be held in reserve for approach to landing
> by turning the battery master back on. If the battery master has
> failed, difference in outcome of flight is insignificant.
If it is possible to feed the main bus using the alternate feed and loads
are controlled by turning off items so that the battery is still up on
arrival then the loss of the contactor would be a non issue as the items on
the main bus would still be available at the airport.
Help,
Don B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR |
There's been some talk about cooling fans, and people have mentioned 8-12
bucks (I think). No need to spend that much:
$1 each: http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/evcafan80bl.html
Or, for quieter, ball bearing, $4.99 each:
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/uc001btc.html
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/80l1a.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
>The Matronics unit is probably the slickest way to do the job because you
>will still have full tork available at slow speeds. Using a simple dropping
>resistor will allow it to run at some lower voltage and slower speed, but
>also
>with lower torque. A DC motor will not overheat this way. A/C motors
>overheat at
>lower than designed voltages because the lower voltage does not allow their
>A/C armature to turn up to designed RPM and they lag out of phase with
>their A/C
>field. The heater/air conditioner DC motored blower in your car uses a
>simple voltage divider resistor bank to give you 3 or more speeds
>typically. This
>voltage divider is just two or more high wattage resistors wired in series
>with the motor switch. The switch picks off one or more resistors to add
>to the
>circuit. I might add that the resistors are in the supply air stream for
>cooling.
Lets separate apples and oranges here. There's no direct relationship
between operation/performance of AC squirrel-cage motors and brush
type dc motors. They're totally different technologies bounded by
different limits.
A series resistor will allow adjustment of PM motor speed
from zero to full speed as will application of a variable
voltage from 0 to rated volts.
A permanent magnet motor output torque is proportional
to current. One raises current draw by increasing LOAD on the
motor. Motor current is defined thusly:
Amps = (Eapplied-CounterEMF)/Ohms
Counter EMF (the voltage the PM motor would GENERATE if
spun up by an external rotation. Counter EMF is directly
proportional to speed. - You can use a PM motor
as a wind speed indicator. Mount one on roof with anemometer
cups to spin it, put a voltmeter on lead wires and calibrate
voltmeter in MPH wind speed.
Put a voltage on a motor and it runs. If nothing is attached
to the shaft, torque on the motor is limited to bearing and
brush friction plus internal windage (yes, aerodynamic drag
on rapidly rotating motor parts is a significant loss to be
considered during design).
Take a peek at this hypothetical motor:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Motors/PM_Motor_Constants.gif
Lets suppose we hook a 12 battery to this motor. What might
we expect? With Kb of 2v/1000 rpm, we can expect this motor
to run at slightly under 6000 rpm. If it had zero losses
(meaning also zero torque) then it would run at a speed
that produces a counter voltage exactly equal to applied voltage.
Torque is described like so:
Torque Constant (Kt) = Torque (oz-in)
Now, let's load this motor with a 2 in-oz load. With
a Kt of 1 in-oz per amp, we can expect the load current on
this motor to go up to 2 amps. With an internal resistance
of 1 ohm, we'll see a 2 volt drop. This means that Counter
EMF (generated volts) has to drop to 10 volts. At 2v/1000 rpm, the
NEW speed for this motor is 5000 rpm.
Hmmm . . . . okay, lets suppose we wanted to run this motor
with the same load but needed to slow it down to 3000 rpm.
What's a mother to do? We COULD add a resistor in series.
How big a resistor? With a new counter EMF of 6 volts,
we need to toss off 6 volts in total system resistance. With
a load of 2A, this means total resistance needs to be
3 ohms. 1 ohm is built into the motor so adding a 2 ohm
resistor should do the trick . . . and it will.
Now lets say that by the time our mechanism
is at limit, its load has increased to
3 in-oz. Okay, now the motor will be drawing 3 amps
instead of 2. What happens to speed? 3 amps of load
through our 3 ohms total resistance tosses off 9 volts.
Counter EMF drops to 3 volts which means that motor speed
at end of mechanism travel will drop to 1500 rpm.
Okay, we can say that speed regulation for this system
over stroke limits of the mechanism is 1500 to 3000 rpm . . .
a 1:2 ratio. If this is satisfactory to you. then perhaps
a series resistor will fill the bill.
Plan B says that we drive the motor with a constant
VOLTAGE source not unlike out dimmer regulators or several
other approaches. Now, what do we need to do to slow the
motor to 3,000 RPM operating speed? We still have the
predicted 2A load at beginning of stroke with 2 volt
being tossed off by internal resistance of the motor.
So, to get 3,000 RPM we need 6V Counter EMF added to
2 volts resistive loss for a total of 8 volts from our
constant voltage controller.
Now, as we reach end of stroke and current rises to
3A, the 1 ohm internal resistance of the motor will
toss off 3 volts of applied leaving us with a Counter
EMF requirement of 5 volts. 5 V divided by Kb of
2V/kRpm yields a new speed of 2500 rpm. Net change
of speed over stroke for constant voltage is 500
rpm or about 15%. Net change of speed over stroke
for series resistance is 1500 rpm or 50%.
In relatively constant load situations like blowers,
a series resistance is often adequate to the task.
In trim system operations where part of the trim
mechanism is a nut running on a threaded shaft,
actuator efficiency is so low that most of the
electrical energy fed to the actuator is used to
move the actuator . . . variable LOAD on actuator
have smaller effects on CURRENT and therefore smaller
effects on SPEED.
(Actuator in Beechject draws 2.5A unloaded, 2.9
amps under 350 pounds of aerodynamic loads . . .
motor speed doesn't change much under variable
loads in flight).
Consider too that voltage applied to the motor
is a function of both the control technology
-AND- system voltage. We generally design speed
control for trim systems to operate over DO-160
range of inputs . . . in a 14V airplane this
means 10.5 to 15.0 volts. In this case, a series
resistor is clearly not going to cut it.
In fact, we generally don't even use constant
voltage control. A speed sensor on the motor
is used to detect and correct applied voltage
so that speed is indeed constant. I put the first
trim speed controllers on Lears about 1980.
Trim speeds varied less than 1% from set-point
for all effects of voltage, load, temperature
and altitude combined.
In summary . . . motor CURRENT is function of
LOAD. The act of restricting available input
energy via reduction of voltage or inclusion
of resistance does not cause load to go up therefore
current doesn't go up either and motor is NOT
in danger of self-destruction by immolation.
Be assured also that you're not putting a
motors at risk by experimentation
with any speed control methodology. The perceived
drop off in performance observed with series
resistance control in no way alters the motor's
torque characteristics . . . in cases cited
above, operating torque was consistent at 2 to
3 in-oz. The extra-ordinary SPEED change
for series resistance control was a function
of loss of STABILITY of VOLTAGE applied to
terminals of the motor.
The methodology you choose to adjust speed of
any motor MUST account for variability of both
loads and system voltage. When in doubt about
load variation, a constant voltage controller
is easy to implement and will yield performance
that is more predictable.
In any case, what ever method you choose for
first flight can easily be changed if found
lacking in performance . . . not so for the
holy-watered birds.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | To E-Buss or not To E-buss |
Hi Don,
There is a lot of good stuff in the archives on this subject. Go to:
www.matronics.com/searching/search.html. Select the aeroelectric list and
search the subject.
It appears pretty tough to improve on the Z-13 -- I have taken several
cracks at it in the process of becoming educated in all of the ins and outs.
I thought I was on to something only to have Bob point out the FAA frowns on
my idea.
Regarding your proposal, the E-bus provides for a separate source of power
to essential devices to get you down. Without it, if you were to lose your
battery contactor, you would be SOL.
Regards, RV7A
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: To E-Buss or not To E-buss
From: Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob and list,
We are installing the All Electric Airplane on a Budget using Z-13.
We have a 50 amp main alt. and the SD-8 on the vac. pad.
My thoughts are about the elimination of the E-buss.
If we loose the main alternator we would bring the SD-8 on line and simply
turn off non-essential items bringing the total load on the system to 8 amps
or less.
In reviewing the loads on the system we come up with only a few that are not
controlled by a switch. Clock and CD player keep alive and engine
instruments. Clock and CD use less than a mA and will be on the always hot
buss. That leaves the engine instruments as the only other loads not
controlled by a switch. Instrument loads total .94 amps and if we add the
battery contactor at 1 amp this results in a 2 amp load that we would not
have control over. Leaving the question, is 6 amps enough to run the items
we will need for a safe completion of the flight. If the answer is yes, then
why not simply leave the load reduction to the pilot who would switch off
the non essential items and illiminate the E-buss. This gives the pilot the
option of turning on an item that might have been relligated to the main
buss but could be useful for a short period of time and then turned off
again.
It looks like the items we would place on our E-buss run between 5-6 amps.
So the loss of the 2 amps (instruments and contactor) buy simply staying
with the main bus and turning off items to reduce load would seem to make
sense.
So in the event we lost the main alt. ...we would... move the Master to Bat,
move the Aux Alt to on, turn off all unnecissary loads. At the airport,
battery still up, put the gear down and land.
Am I missing something?
Bob your critic of my thinking would be appreciated.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Super Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
Hi Bob,
Didn't get any instructions with alt. Which tab do you wire for field, horizontal
or vertical oriented tab or does it matter?
Thanks, Rick Fogerson
Boise, ID
RV3 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
Bob/folks,
My heated pitot (AN315-1 from AeroInstruments) calls for MIL spec 22759/1 wire
to hook it up with. Where can I get a good source for a short length of this
specialty wire? Also, it claims to only draw 6.4-8 amps, so 18GA would be sufficient
correct? I expected to need bigger wire. Thanks.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Wire |
I can't help with your question, but do you have a source for that
pitot? I don't find it with Google.
>
>
>Bob/folks,
>
>My heated pitot (AN315-1 from AeroInstruments) calls for MIL spec 22759/1
>wire to hook it up with. Where can I get a good source for a short length
>of this specialty wire? Also, it claims to only draw 6.4-8 amps, so 18GA
>would be sufficient correct? I expected to need bigger wire. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Collins" <philc1(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Brett
Tefzel wire I use meets MIL-W-22759 It's available from B & C Specialty,
Aircraft Spruce, Newark, etc... If you have some Tefzel wire around,
check the insulation. Should say 22759. On mine the number after the
slash is the gauge size. I used 18 gauge tefzel to my heated pitot (a
blade type out of a Piper) with no problems.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Ferrell
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Tube Wire
Bob/folks,
My heated pitot (AN315-1 from AeroInstruments) calls for MIL spec
22759/1 wire to hook it up with. Where can I get a good source for a
short length of this specialty wire? Also, it claims to only draw 6.4-8
amps, so 18GA would be sufficient correct? I expected to need bigger
wire. Thanks.
Brett
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
Rick,
The instructions that came with my B&C 40-amp alternator said simply to jump
the terminals together at the connector with a little jumper wire.
Wish I had a photo...I've got a photo of literally everything *but* this for
some reason. 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab?
>
> Hi Bob,
> Didn't get any instructions with alt. Which tab do you wire for field,
horizontal or vertical oriented tab or does it matter?
> Thanks, Rick Fogerson
> Boise, ID
> RV3 wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
>
>Hi Bob,
>Didn't get any instructions with alt. Which tab do you wire for field,
>horizontal or vertical oriented tab or does it matter?
>Thanks, Rick Fogerson
>Boise, ID
>RV3 wiring
Last time I knew, they were tying ALL tabs together
after removing the built in regulator. You should
be able to use any one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
>
>Rick,
>
>The instructions that came with my B&C 40-amp alternator said simply to jump
>the terminals together at the connector with a little jumper wire.
The jumper is a sort of "redundancy" thing . . . either tab or both
can be wired to your regulator.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
Here is a great little motor speed control. The drive to the motor is
periodically interrupted and back-EMF sampled. Nice!
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5763
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy.
--Dave Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Messinger" <paulm(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
Thanks for the reference. That is one way of properly reducing motor speed
with out drastically reducing motor power (torque).
The basic problem using series resistance to control speed is loss of torque
in the motor. Resistive speed control is simple and works well where the
motor torque is several times more powerful than needed. However if you need
the same torque at a lower speed the series resistor is NOT the way to go.
The referenced circuit provides the same torque over a wide range of speed.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Myths and urban ledgends about motors
>
> Here is a great little motor speed control. The drive to the motor is
> periodically interrupted and back-EMF sampled. Nice!
>
> http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5763
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
> When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual
> who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
> Very often, that individual is crazy.
> --Dave Barry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Slightly delayed response but here is some information from a friend who
flies with the Apollo SL40 (same intercom)
>I'd like to hear some thoughts about the quality of the built-in intercom
In the SL30. Have any of you utilized it? Is it sufficiently adjustable to
use along with a set of Bose X headsets as the main pilot/passenger
communications setup in a Glasair?
I have the identical intercom in the SL40. I use a pair of Peltor headsets
which I have modified to ANR. The setup works very well. The intercom has
most if not all the advantages of the stand alone intercoms with the benefit
of simpler wiring. I particularly like the ability to listen on the standby
freq (in effect you have two receivers). The only thing to watch out for is
that although the Apollo series minimises the use of panel area their sets
are very deep so make sure you have enough panel depth.
I have no knowledge of the Bose headsets but I doubt if that will be a
problem.
The most common problem is if two different makes of headset are used in the
same installation. Also if you changed from one make of headsets to another
you may find you have to reset the preset settings for things like squelch
or side tone volume but these changes are easily done using the front panel
controls in a setup routine.
As with all radio installations pay particular attention to screening the
mic/tel leads and avoid earth loops. There is more quality lost through poor
installation than the difference between the quality of the individual
products.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Fuselage being Painted, Wings ready to paint, Flying surfaces painted
Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 50% done . Includes Dynon EFIS,
KMD 150,
Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
Activity on Panel completion, Design and build Heater Unit.
+44 7808 402404
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
>
>Here is a great little motor speed control. The drive to the motor is
>periodically interrupted and back-EMF sampled. Nice!
>
>http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5763
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
This is an excellent example of speed sampled feedback
servo control of motor speed. D1 is used to sample Kb
of the motor during duty-cycle OFF time of the power
controller. As I pointed out in my missive of yesterday,
Kb is the GENERATOR constant of the PM motor. When you're
not supplying energy to the motor to hold/increase speed,
the power switch is OFF and whatever voltage appears at
the power input lead to the motor is a DIRECT MEASUREMENT
of present motor speed.
Obviously, one cannot use this self-generating tachometer
feedback technique if your design ever calls for 100% duty
cycle of motor power . . . Unless you always have at least
some tiny OFF-time, the feedback circuit goes blind and
can no longer sense motor speed.
This technique can be used only with motors having fixed
field like a permanent magnet or wound-field with a constant
excitation supply. If you DO have a wound field motor and a
tight speed control requirement, then you have to REGULATE
CURRENT to the field rather tightly. Kb = Speed times Field
Flux. In a permanent magnet motor, field flux is constant
so monitoring of OFF-time Kb is a valid representation of
motor speed.
In a wound field motor, as supply voltage goes up, field
flux increases and tells the speed control servo loop that
motor speed has increased while in fact, it has not. This
causes the system to slow down if voltage increased. Further,
copper used to wind the field has a relatively strong
positive temperature coefficient. As the motor warms up,
field resistance goes up causing field current to go down
if the field is supplied from a constant voltage source.
Since field flux is amperes times turns of wire, one can
wash out temperature and supply voltage effects on field
flux by driving the field from a relatively precise
CONSTANT CURRENT supply.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban legends about motors |
>
>Thanks for the reference. That is one way of properly reducing motor speed
>with out drastically reducing motor power (torque).
. . . it helps to be more specific as to what increased R
does . . . I believe this has been a source from which
myths and legends are born. The MOTOR'S ability to convert
electrical energy into mechanical energy is a constant
defined by physical characteristics and quantified by
Kt, Kb and internal impedance. The SYSTEM's ability
adds more constraints of total loop resistance, supply
voltage, and character of the load on the motor.
If one puts power to a motor with a locked rotor, then
Kb = 0 and torque is now Eapplied/R. In the hypothetical
motor I defined yesterday, the 12v locked rotor current
would be 12 volts/1 ohm or 12 amps. Torque would be 12 oz-inches
or the most you could ever get out of this motor with
12 Volts applied. Even with this very large (and probably
damaging) torque value, POWER from the motor is zero.
We have lots of force but no motion, no power.
When we add series resistance, max torque (locked rotor
value) obviously goes down because max current is limited.
2 ohms series resistance raises total resistance to 3
ohms making 4A and/or 4 oz-in the max torque that can be
delivered. Under heavy loads, MOST of the system's energy
input is being tossed off as heat in the resistor.
I've designed PM motor controls to operate in a CONSTANT
CURRENT mode. In one case, I needed a vacuum pump that
would run a relatively constant pressure differential
without use of a pressure regulator. The miniature diaphragm
pump would present a rather constant load (torque) to the
motor when the desired pressure differential was achieved.
The easiest thing to do was operate the motor from
a constant current source. It would run fast initially
when volumes of air were being moved (getting a substantial
amount of power from the motor because work was being done)
but when the desired pressure was reached, the motor would
stall and quite rotating. If pressure dropped, the motor
would turn over a few revolutions and stop again when
torque required to increase pressure was higher than
torque available due to purposefully limited supply
current to the motor. In this case, the motor torque
was maxed out but motion was zero . . . I.e. no work
being done and no power being delivered.
>The basic problem using series resistance to control speed is loss of torque
>in the motor. Resistive speed control is simple and works well where the
>motor torque is several times more powerful than needed.
. . . or when torque is relatively constant like the a/c
blower motor on vehicles.
> However if you need
>the same torque at a lower speed the series resistor is NOT the way to go.
>The referenced circuit provides the same torque over a wide range of speed.
correct . . . but the driving simple-idea is that voltage to
the motor is adjusted in response to maintain constant speed
IRRESPECTIVE of the load (torque) taken from the motor. Given
further that there are no fixed limits to max torque other than
99% duty cycle and series motor resistance, one can get full
rated torque out of the motor at any speed. POWER on the other
hand is SPEED x TORQUE. Even with this constant speed controller,
POWER from the motor will be a tiny fraction of rated output
at low speed settings not because torque is limited but because
speed is limited.
I'll suggest it's useful to use the words torque, speed, power and
energy in more precise language so as improve understanding and
quash the myths before the flourish . . . or at least cut off
oxygen from those already loose in the wild.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Wire |
Sorry, been staring at wiring diagrams too long. It's an AN5812, you can
such a pitot at AS&S:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/heatedptubes.php, though I got
my from Velocity directly.
I have the 22759/16 type wire, but when I checked the /1 it, in fact, very
different wire. Is it generally believed to be acceptable to make this
substitution?
Brett
----- Original Message -----
From: <Richard(at)riley.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Tube Wire
>
> I can't help with your question, but do you have a source for that
> pitot? I don't find it with Google.
>
> >
> >
> >Bob/folks,
> >
> >My heated pitot (AN315-1 from AeroInstruments) calls for MIL spec 22759/1
> >wire to hook it up with. Where can I get a good source for a short
length
> >of this specialty wire? Also, it claims to only draw 6.4-8 amps, so 18GA
> >would be sufficient correct? I expected to need bigger wire. Thanks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban legends about motors |
There is yet another way to get a motor with constant rpm, not slowing
down under load, and able to produce huge torque if necessary. It is
done by sensing the current through the motor and making a positive
feedback loop to increase voltage driving the motor by the amount equal
to the voltage drop on internal resistance of the motor. This way the
circuit compensates for the voltage drop on the internal resistance,
effectively creating external negative resistance equal to the internal
resistance of the motor. If the voltage driving the whole driving
circuit remains constant, the motor runs at a constant speed no matter
what load, as if its coils were made out of superconductor with zero
resistance. Of course a practical circuit will eventually slow down when
the driving circuit output reaches its maximum available voltage.
Such a circuit is not as universal as say a voltage regulator, and it
must be tuned to match the internal resistance of the particular motor.
Also, perfect compensation of internal resistance is difficult because
pure metals, Cu included, have large thermal coefficient of resistance,
which means that internal resistance of a motor depends on temperature,
and the circuit migh get unstable if the compensation was pushed too far.
A circuit like that is not more complicated than a constant voltage
regulator.
Jerzy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | microair wiring question |
Bob, I purchased a microair 760 from you along with a wiring harness a couple
years ago, but I didn't receive your wiring instructions ( I wired it per the
diagram in the small blue manual).
Due to some problems with audio quality I am now in the process of rewiring
my jacks and using fiberglass jack mounts, which brings me to my question; I
pulled up two of your wiring diagrams - one was "Aircraft Microphone Jack
Wiring" and the other was entitled "Microair MA-760 Transceiver Wiring Diagram
Standard Installation" and there seems to be a conflict regarding grounding.
In the first diagram, it shows the PTT ground wire at each mic jack connected
to the sleeve along with the shield of the three conducter cable.
In the second case, you show the PTT ground wires not attached to the mic
sleeves but connected together with the headphones and intercom ground and from
there on to ship's instrument ground.
Which is the correct wiring or are both correct?
Thanks,
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OV Protection Module |
Bob,
I have a Glastar and use your OV Module. The plane has been flying since 98
and has approx 800 hours on it. Last year the OV Module went out and it
appears to have gone out again. About 150 hours on the new one you sent me.
It keeps tripping and blowing the fuse. This occurred three times today. I
have the Vision system which allows me to see the high and low voltages for
the flight. Each time the high voltage was 14.2 volts. I am unsure of the
sampling rate of the vision, but if there are voltage spikes they are faster
then the vision can catch and it had three tries.
From what I have seen, this seems very unusual......any ideas....or am I
just getting bad modules?
best,
Rhett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Fogerson
Subject: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab?
Hi Bob,
Didn't get any instructions with alt. Which tab do you wire for field, horizontal
or vertical oriented tab or does it matter?
Thanks, Rick Fogerson
Boise, ID
RV3 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab? |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Rick Fogerson
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: B&C 40 amp alternator : "F" tab?
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>Didn't get any instructions with alt. Which tab do you wire for field,
>horizontal or vertical oriented tab or does it matter?
>Thanks, Rick Fogerson
>Boise, ID
>RV3 wiring\]
It doesn't matter.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: microair wiring question |
>
>Bob, I purchased a microair 760 from you along with a wiring harness a couple
>years ago, but I didn't receive your wiring instructions ( I wired it per the
>diagram in the small blue manual).
>
>Due to some problems with audio quality I am now in the process of rewiring
>my jacks and using fiberglass jack mounts, which brings me to my question; I
>pulled up two of your wiring diagrams - one was "Aircraft Microphone Jack
>Wiring" and the other was entitled "Microair MA-760 Transceiver Wiring
>Diagram
>Standard Installation" and there seems to be a conflict regarding grounding.
>
>In the first diagram, it shows the PTT ground wire at each mic jack connected
>to the sleeve along with the shield of the three conducter cable.
>
>In the second case, you show the PTT ground wires not attached to the mic
>sleeves but connected together with the headphones and intercom ground and
>from
>there on to ship's instrument ground.
>
>Which is the correct wiring or are both correct?
Download instructions at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
Lets talk from those pages about any questions you have. What are
the links from which you downloaded documents that conflict?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban legends about motors |
>
>
>There is yet another way to get a motor with constant rpm, not slowing
>down under load, and able to produce huge torque if necessary. It is
>done by sensing the current through the motor and making a positive
>feedback loop to increase voltage driving the motor by the amount equal
>to the voltage drop on internal resistance of the motor. This way the
>circuit compensates for the voltage drop on the internal resistance,
>effectively creating external negative resistance equal to the internal
>resistance of the motor. If the voltage driving the whole driving
>circuit remains constant, the motor runs at a constant speed no matter
>what load, as if its coils were made out of superconductor with zero
>resistance. Of course a practical circuit will eventually slow down when
>the driving circuit output reaches its maximum available voltage.
>
>Such a circuit is not as universal as say a voltage regulator, and it
>must be tuned to match the internal resistance of the particular motor.
>Also, perfect compensation of internal resistance is difficult because
>pure metals, Cu included, have large thermal coefficient of resistance,
>which means that internal resistance of a motor depends on temperature,
>and the circuit migh get unstable if the compensation was pushed too far.
>
>A circuit like that is not more complicated than a constant voltage
>regulator.
I've tried that with some success. As you've noted, it has to
be "tuned" to individual system characteristics which makes
it more difficult to offer plug-n-play spares for controllers
and motors. I was having trouble too keeping the system stable
over wide temperature ranges . . . the positive feedback would
be sufficient to cause instability. This was 20+ years ago with
mostly discrete components. Are you aware of any newer choices
for hardware to implement this control philosophy?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reusing batteries |
Um, that made my head hurt.
8-)
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Reusing batteries
>
> >
> >" The most life any one battery would see would be three years (one in
the
> >plane and two in the car)."
> >
> >I don't think so.
>
> It's helpful to explain your deduction. If the airplane has
> one battery changed out every year with used battery rotate to
> car, then next year, one would be rotating a two year battery
> out of the car in exchange for a one-year battery out of the
> airplane. If the airplane has two batteries then a one year
> battery rotates from main battery to aux battery and two year
> old aux battery goes to car. At next annual, a three year old
> battery in car gets replaced with another two year old battery
> from the airplane. I'll suggest that in later scenario, total
> battery service would be three years with two of those years
> in the airplane.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR |
How about the computer case fans? About $5, 12vdc, sturdy frame, and
(usually) quiet.
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR
>
> There's been some talk about cooling fans, and people have mentioned 8-12
> bucks (I think). No need to spend that much:
>
> $1 each: http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/evcafan80bl.html
>
> Or, for quieter, ball bearing, $4.99 each:
> http://store.yahoo.com/directron/uc001btc.html
> http://store.yahoo.com/directron/80l1a.html
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OV Protection Module |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> I have a Glastar and use your OV Module. The plane has been flying since 98
>and has approx 800 hours on it. Last year the OV Module went out and it
>appears to have gone out again. About 150 hours on the new one you sent me.
>
> It keeps tripping and blowing the fuse. This occurred three times today. I
>have the Vision system which allows me to see the high and low voltages for
>the flight. Each time the high voltage was 14.2 volts. I am unsure of the
>sampling rate of the vision, but if there are voltage spikes they are faster
>then the vision can catch and it had three tries.
>
> From what I have seen, this seems very unusual......any ideas....or am I
>just getting bad modules?
Refresh my memory. When it "went out" the first time, did you send it
to me for modification or did I send you a new one. When you say "fuse"
do you mean circuit breaker? The Vision Micro will not "see" the kind
of transient usually common to nuisance tipping an crowbar ov module.
If the first one was "bad" and sent back to me for mod, I would have
brought it up to date with current production. What equipment was
ON while the OV module was tripping? Was this configuration much
different than previous flight activity? Would you be willing to try
an experiment to see if we can isolate any potential antagonist
systems?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NiMH batteries |
>
>Does anyone know of a source for rechargeable lithium batteries in AA, C
>or D sizes? Are the "non-rechargeable" lithium batteries truly
>non-rechargeable, or is this a CYA statement from the manufacturers?
>What happens if you try?
See http://www.greenbatteries.com/documents/Li-ion_Battery_FAQ.htm
and in particular:
http://www.greenbatteries.com/documents/Li-ion_Battery_FAQ.htm#Li-ion%20in%20AA
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To E-Buss or not To E-buss |
>
>
> > Yup. The e-bus alternate feed path has two purposes. (1) Second path
> > to most reliable power source in event battery contactor is lost
>
>Good point.
>Bob, is it possible to keep the alternate feed switch, eliminate the E-bus
>connecting the feed to the main bus? If possible would you need to use the
>diode turned to feed the main bus or eliminate the diode all together?
>
> >(2) means by which battery only operations loads may be reduced
> > to minimum en route values for endurance. The fact that you've added
> > and SD-8 only means that e-bus loads can now be as great as 8-10 amps
> > so that the battery can be held in reserve for approach to landing
> > by turning the battery master back on. If the battery master has
> > failed, difference in outcome of flight is insignificant.
>
>If it is possible to feed the main bus using the alternate feed and loads
>are controlled by turning off items so that the battery is still up on
>arrival then the loss of the contactor would be a non issue as the items on
>the main bus would still be available at the airport.
It is possible to wire the airplane any way you wish. It's
an OBAM aircraft and subject only to your desires. I am
not clear as to what your concerns are for the existing design
but it doesn't matter. Please do whatever makes you the most
comfortable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Controls & Grounding |
>
>Hi Bob and list.
>
>Bob in your book under note 5 you write: "make sure that jackets for engine
>controls do not ELECTRICALLY ground both a metal panel and the engine ...
>they can easily become a SECOND ground path on the wrong side of the
>airplane and create the same problems we're striving to eliminate.
>
>This was for airplanes with battery and engine on opposite ends of the
>airplane. I have the conventional engine on front, firewall, panel, battery
>under the passenger seat. Do I need to worry about insulating my throttle
>and prop controls from the metal panel?
Generally no. I can recall only once case where currents
circulating in controls jackets caused a problem and it was
with the compass. This is exceedingly rare.
>I will also have several other (8 ) push pulls on the panel operating in the
>engine compartment. Though none will be connected directly to the engine.
>(9 cyl radial M-14). Any concerns?
>
>Another point. In the engine compartment we are using all stainless steel
>braided hoses. Several of which run from the metal firewall bulkhead fitting
>to the engine. Any concerns?
>
>I am planning on having all electrical equipment grounds run to a instrument
>panel ground bus located on the firewall as per your book.
This will do fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitch Trim Motor Slowdown |
><joberst@cox-internet.com>
>
>I previously posted a question on how to cut down the speed of my 12V DC
>pitch trim motor. I got one response, which suggested I use the the
>Matronics Mark III adjustable speed governor. I have two issues with
>this... first, it is unclear to me what the current capacity of this unit is
>(does anyone know that? - I am not using MAC servos)... second, it looks
>like a bit of overkill, as I don't want adjustable speed, ground-actuation,
>multiple switches - just a permanent slowdown to one speed.
>
>Can anyone explain to me what the design goal is for a DC motor slowdown
>circuit? I've been told that a simple dropping resistor could cause the
>motor to overheat. Also, I don't want to do something to reduce the torque.
>Will a fixed voltage regulator do it, or does it need to be pulsed, or??
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jim Oberst
You got the long answer, let's look at your specific application.
What motor do you want to control and what system does it drive?
How have you deduced that you'll need to control the speed of this
motor? Have you put a power supply on the motor to see what
new voltage and current are required?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban legends about motors |
>
> I've tried that with some success. As you've noted, it has to
> be "tuned" to individual system characteristics which makes
> it more difficult to offer plug-n-play spares for controllers
> and motors. I was having trouble too keeping the system stable
> over wide temperature ranges . . . the positive feedback would
> be sufficient to cause instability. This was 20+ years ago with
> mostly discrete components. Are you aware of any newer choices
> for hardware to implement this control philosophy?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
This circuit was quite popular at some time, most of battery driven tape recorders
used it. Today, everything goes digital.
No, I did not see any integrated circuits for that application.
Jerzy
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: microair wiring question |
Bob, I printed out the Installation Manual you referenced in your email to me
and it's exactly like the diagram you show in your shop notes on how to wire
mic jacks. Now I'm wondering where I got the diagram entitled "Microair MA 760
Transceiver Wiring Diagram" - It doesn't have an aeroelectric reference. I
must have accessed it from the Microair website.
Sorry to bother you, I'll proceed using your instructions.
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cooling fans, ONE DOLLAR |
>
>There's been some talk about cooling fans, and people have mentioned 8-12
>bucks (I think). No need to spend that much:
>
>$1 each: http://store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/evcafan80bl.html
>
>Or, for quieter, ball bearing, $4.99 each:
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/uc001btc.html
>http://store.yahoo.com/directron/80l1a.html
Air movers for avionics need characteristics
conducive to moving air against quite a bit
of back pressure. The relatively small diameter
hoses are probably too much for a computer cooling
fan that almost never has to move air though
tiny spaces.
Most of the avionics cooling fans I've seen
used centrifugal blowers or vane axial blowers.
If I were going to hammer something together
for avionics cooling, I'd start with a product
like
http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=14495+FN
This critter draws 2A and is rated at 60 cfm
(at no pressure). You could build a plenum onto
its output snoot for attaching cooling hoses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Wire |
>
>
>Sorry, been staring at wiring diagrams too long. It's an AN5812, you can
>such a pitot at AS&S:
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/heatedptubes.php, though I got
>my from Velocity directly.
>
>I have the 22759/16 type wire, but when I checked the /1 it, in fact, very
>different wire. Is it generally believed to be acceptable to make this
>substitution?
/1 wire is teflon rated at 200C. /16 is tefzel rated at 150
C. If your pitot tube REALLY needs higher temperatur rated
wire, then you'll need higher melting point solder to install
the pins too.
Try plain vanilla electronic solder and /16 wire. That's
what we use on all the airplanes at RAC for pitot tube
wiring.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Wire |
>
>
>Bob/folks,
>
>My heated pitot (AN315-1 from AeroInstruments) calls for MIL spec 22759/1
>wire to hook it up with. Where can I get a good source for a short length
>of this specialty wire? Also, it claims to only draw 6.4-8 amps, so 18GA
>would be sufficient correct? I expected to need bigger wire. Thanks.
On wire size. The inrush current to pitot tubes is pretty
long compared to other components. I'd wire it with 14AWG
and fuse it at 15A. If during your fly-off, a series of
20 or so start from cold pitot heat cycles doesn't nuisance
trip the fuse, 15 is fine. If necessary, go up to 20A but
leave the 14AWG wire in place.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
In a message dated 12/6/2003 3:43:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net writes:
Lets separate apples and oranges here. There's no direct relationship
between operation/performance of AC squirrel-cage motors and brush
type dc motors. They're totally different technologies bounded by
different limits....
Yes, Bob, Let's separate apples and oranges here. I mentioned AC motors to
Jim only to expose one myth, urban legend (or maybe it's an old wife's tale),
--the concern for overheating a permanent magnet DC motor by reducing supplied
voltage. Some types of AC motors can be seriously damaged by under voltage
operation. Jim's need is only to slow his pitch trim motor down a bit --
Something he could easily do with a simple series resistor. He will have to
experiment to see if his motor can handle the needed power requirements at reduced
voltage.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OV Protection Module |
Bob,
Yes, I sent my old one to you and you sent me a newer version. And no, I
have a fuse instead of a circuit breaker.
The same equipment was on that I have on every flight. Nothing different
other then it was colder then normal.
And yes, I am open for some experimentation...
best,
Rhett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV Protection Module
>
>
>Bob,
>
> I have a Glastar and use your OV Module. The plane has been flying since
98
>and has approx 800 hours on it. Last year the OV Module went out and it
>appears to have gone out again. About 150 hours on the new one you sent me.
>
> It keeps tripping and blowing the fuse. This occurred three times today.
I
>have the Vision system which allows me to see the high and low voltages for
>the flight. Each time the high voltage was 14.2 volts. I am unsure of the
>sampling rate of the vision, but if there are voltage spikes they are
faster
>then the vision can catch and it had three tries.
>
> From what I have seen, this seems very unusual......any ideas....or am I
>just getting bad modules?
Refresh my memory. When it "went out" the first time, did you send it
to me for modification or did I send you a new one. When you say "fuse"
do you mean circuit breaker? The Vision Micro will not "see" the kind
of transient usually common to nuisance tipping an crowbar ov module.
If the first one was "bad" and sent back to me for mod, I would have
brought it up to date with current production. What equipment was
ON while the OV module was tripping? Was this configuration much
different than previous flight activity? Would you be willing to try
an experiment to see if we can isolate any potential antagonist
systems?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
Years ago, a friend of mine wanted me to have a look at an invention in his
dentist's (!) basement.
He had an AC motor hooked up to meters and you could calculated the watts
(VA). Attached to it was a DC generator and a load with a bunch of meters
and you could calculate the power developed (VA).
Amazing! Perpetual motion and free energy at last! The power out was
significantly more than the power in (said my friend). This is actually a
pretty common scam long ago but in this case the dentist really thought he
was going to change the world with his invention. No more spit cups.
No, I won't 'splain it here, because we only care about REAL macho Direct
Current. And I begged off seeing the thing. That AC stuff is for wimps. Just
don't take any wooden nickels.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OV Protection Module |
Bob,
As I would like to get back in the air quickly, what are the chances of
destructive high voltage spikes that would be existing if they are too small
to be caught by the Vision sampling?
I am thinking about without the OV Module until this gets resolved.
best,
Rhett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV Protection Module
>
>
>Bob,
>
> I have a Glastar and use your OV Module. The plane has been flying since
98
>and has approx 800 hours on it. Last year the OV Module went out and it
>appears to have gone out again. About 150 hours on the new one you sent me.
>
> It keeps tripping and blowing the fuse. This occurred three times today.
I
>have the Vision system which allows me to see the high and low voltages for
>the flight. Each time the high voltage was 14.2 volts. I am unsure of the
>sampling rate of the vision, but if there are voltage spikes they are
faster
>then the vision can catch and it had three tries.
>
> From what I have seen, this seems very unusual......any ideas....or am I
>just getting bad modules?
Refresh my memory. When it "went out" the first time, did you send it
to me for modification or did I send you a new one. When you say "fuse"
do you mean circuit breaker? The Vision Micro will not "see" the kind
of transient usually common to nuisance tipping an crowbar ov module.
If the first one was "bad" and sent back to me for mod, I would have
brought it up to date with current production. What equipment was
ON while the OV module was tripping? Was this configuration much
different than previous flight activity? Would you be willing to try
an experiment to see if we can isolate any potential antagonist
systems?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: microair wiring question |
>
>Bob, I printed out the Installation Manual you referenced in your email to me
>and it's exactly like the diagram you show in your shop notes on how to wire
>mic jacks. Now I'm wondering where I got the diagram entitled "Microair MA
>760
>Transceiver Wiring Diagram" - It doesn't have an aeroelectric reference. I
>must have accessed it from the Microair website.
>
>Sorry to bother you, I'll proceed using your instructions.
Could be . . .and what it shows may indeed function. I'll suggest
that what I've illustrated has accounted for all noise mitigation
measures known to date.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My Favorite: Myths and urban ledgends about motors |
You have overlooked a very major point. Everyone
>except you is using the air drill not only because
>they are light and small and last forever and if oiled
>appropriately ( 2 or three drops every building
>session) don't spit any oil and are fairly quite if
>you are using a quality drill with a good silencer,
>but because of airworthiness concerns. It is on page
>one of the construction manual in bold type, Do not
>use electric hand tools on this aircraft, structural
>damage will be the result of doing so! Induction
>motors immerse the highly conductive aluminum
>components in a very damaging electromagnetic
>inductive field surrounding the motor. This
>electromagnetic field alters the microstructure of the
>structural grade aluminum and predisposes the flight
>critical components to fatigue failures. This is a
>very proven and thoroughly documented cause of
>structural failures in early all-metal aircraft.
>
>Please, please do not make this mistake as there will
>surely be grave consequences for you and your
>passengers and horrific insurance problems for the
>rest of us. If you do decide to use electric hand
>tools I would recommend fully disclosing this to your
>insurance company prior to beginning construction of
>the horizontal stabilizer. Failure to do so could
>result in denial of an otherwise justified claim.
>
>On a side note, If it is a 7A you are building please
>be forewarned that the induced form drag from the nose
>wheel creates forward pitching tendency that can only
>be overcome by additional elevator deflection thereby
>setting up an oscillation that can quickly get out of
>control and further compound the fatigue problems
>initiated with the electric drill motor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>Bob
>
>thanks for your email address. I subscribed to the Matronics RV list when
>I started building but got swamped with messages that were not pertinent
>here in the UK. I hope you don't mind me sending this direct to you.
>
>I'm building a Vans RV6A and have a zero timed Lyc IO-320 that came with
>electronic ignition in place of the right mag, and a B+C 8amp standby
>generator.
>
>I have your excellent publication, the Connection, understand most of it,
>and will use your "all electric on a budget" scheme. However, perhaps you
>can help me with a couple of questions.
>
>When I eventually come to start the engine I shall have the electronic
>ignition on (page Z-5) but should I also have the impulse mag on?
Wouldn't hurt anything and it might help . . .
>I will be using fuses wherever possible. The crowbar over voltage modules
>(separate for the SD-8, built in the LR-3 regulator) need breakers of some
>sort. In some places you use a fuse, in others a cb. On page 10-4 you
>install the alt field breaker next to the DC P M switch on the panel, but
>on page Z-7 you recommend not putting the breaker (or fuse) on the panel
>but as close as possible to the starter contactor. The wiring diagram
>shows the breaker between the main bus bar and the DC P M switch, nowhere
>near the starter contactor, physically or electrically. The question is,
>can I use fuses for the alt field breakers, and where should I put them?
The only BREAKER you need is in the alternator FIELD lead to accommodate
the crowbar ov protection module. The alternator B-LEAD breaker common
to contemporary light aircraft is the one we replace with a fuse
on the firewall. This is indeed mounted next to the starter contactor.
These are two separate circuits.
>I have a Hawker battery on the front of the firewall as per RV7. Can the
>regulator go next to it or would it be better to put it behind the
>firewall (cooler) and use a temperature sensor?
Mount regulator for most convenient access. You don't
need the temperature sensor.
>I hope to phone you soon to order the LR-3 regulator and other parts.
I don't have the parts business any more. Links to those
parts take you to http://www.bandc.biz where you'll
find B&C Specialty Products. Their phone number is
316.283.8000 or fax 316.283.7400
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( A beginning of the end is marked by )
( replacement of experience and common )
( sense with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian " <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | SLA battery Problems |
Hi all, I have a backup 7AH 12V SLA (sealed Lead acid battery) and it
uses a smart charger.
It was sitting on the shelf the other day (after charging) and the next
morning I found a pool of clear liquid around it?
Anyone have any idea what it was?
Probably about half a cup. And did not react with bicarb soda.
Thanks
Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ageless Wings" <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | SLA battery Problems |
Mornin', Ian...
Just a WAG...but was it stored in a cold or cool unheated space just after
it was charged? You just said "on the shelf".
If so, and it was also very humid, like immediately following rain or snow,
it may just be condensation that formed on the side of the warm battery in
the cool, damp air.
Harley
|-----Original Message-----
|From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
|[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ian
|Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:11 AM
|To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
|Subject: AeroElectric-List: SLA battery Problems
|
|
|
|
|Hi all, I have a backup 7AH 12V SLA (sealed Lead acid battery) and it
|uses a smart charger.
|
|It was sitting on the shelf the other day (after charging) and the next
|morning I found a pool of clear liquid around it?
|
|Anyone have any idea what it was?
|
|Probably about half a cup. And did not react with bicarb soda.
|
|Thanks
|
|Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SLA battery Problems |
>
>
>Hi all, I have a backup 7AH 12V SLA (sealed Lead acid battery) and it
>uses a smart charger.
>
>It was sitting on the shelf the other day (after charging) and the next
>morning I found a pool of clear liquid around it?
>
>Anyone have any idea what it was?
>
>Probably about half a cup. And did not react with bicarb soda.
SLA batteries have so little liquid within that in no
way could the moisture you observed have come from the
battery. You can poke a hole in the bottom of all the
cells and liquid will not run from the battery.
My guess is that it was subjected to a humidity spike
and while the air may have been relatively warm, the
battery was sitting at or below dew point and the
water was condensate.
Take 4 ounces of water and pour out onto a flat surface.
Compare spread-area of the water with what you observed
around your battery. I suspect you'll find that you can
generate the same size spread-area with less than an
ounce of water.
The non-reaction with bicarb was an excellent data point
and another strong clue as to the read nature of
the phenomenon that produced the water.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
Bob,
I read your book the first time.
Highlited the second time.
Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
How would one remove the internal regulator.
Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder coax choice |
>Dear Bob:
>
>I am building a Rans S6S. My avionics include an ICOM transceiver and a >King
Mode C transponder. The antennas are about 12 feet from the panel. >Do you think
it is OK for me to use RG 58U feed line or should I go to a >lower loss variety?
Loss isn't the biggest issue. RG-58 is a WWII veteran that
needs to be retired. Its materials and design are of that
era (single layer tinned braid, polyethylene inner insulation,
PVC outer insulation. Modern coax like RG-400 or RG-142 will
have double outer conductor that is silver plated, outer
insulation of FEP and inner insulation of PTFE . . . both
are modern, high temperature chemical resistant materials.
A side benefit is lower loss but superior materials and
construction is what you're really looking for.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
>
>Bob,
>I read your book the first time.
>Highlited the second time.
>Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
>How would one remove the internal regulator.
You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
as shown in figure Z-24
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
Kevin,
What type of alternator are you trying to modify? I converted two ND 55
amp Geo units to external regulator.
Mark S.
Austin, TX
>How would one remove the internal regulator.
>Thanks,
>Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SLA battery Problems |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Bob,
I am using a 17 a h SLA battery to power my panel as I check out my
instruments. I hooked an automotive charger with an automatic taper
off feature to the battery, and measured charge voltage at over 16
volts, that tapered down to around 14 within just a few minutes.
There was no amp reading on the meter, so it was somewhere below 1 amp.
I called the distributor but could find no one who could help.
Question: Will that voltage damage the battery?
Joel Harding
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
on 12/9/03 10:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I read your book the first time.
>> Highlited the second time.
>> Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
>> How would one remove the internal regulator.
>
> You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
> as shown in figure Z-24
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions.
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
I am on the list. That is how I sent this to you.
The reason I asked about your recomendation to take out the internal VR, is
that it looks to be easier to wire the whole package if I use the LRC3-14.
As opposed to the seperate parts listed in Z-24. Just trying to get an idea
why you have a distaste for the internal VR. Trying to justify the
additional cost.
Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
Mark,
I think that is what I have. Will need to remove the engine to get the
numbers. I have a Tri Q200, Starter, Mags, Alt back in a the whole. Will let
you know.
Thanks
Kevin
on 12/9/03 1:22 PM, Mark Steitle at msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu wrote:
>
>
> Kevin,
> What type of alternator are you trying to modify? I converted two ND 55
> amp Geo units to external regulator.
>
> Mark S.
> Austin, TX
>
>
>> How would one remove the internal regulator.
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | SD 8 Alternator wiring |
I'm installing a Vans 60amp internally regulated alternator with a B&C SD8 as a
backup. The printed insert sent with the B&C indicate that a over voltage protection
isn't necessary with this type of alternator since "regenerative over-voltage
failures are not possible". If this is true then there would appear
to be a contradiction with DWG 504-500, also from B&C which shows a crowbar OVM
in this system along with S8005-1.
My question: Other than the PMR1 regulator and filter capacitor is there any specific
reason to add OVM protection to the SD8, as a standby alternator?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Collins" <philc1(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Simple electronics question |
I have what I think is a simple electronics question, but being an
electronics simpleton I don't have the simple answer. Any suggestions
or direction for further study would be appreciated.
I want to use National Semiconductor LM34 temperature sensor to create
an OAT display in my cockpit. So far I've hooked up the sensor and
tested it in the freezer, in front of a Halogen light and in ice water
and have recorded temps on my OAT display of +5 to +165F. The temp
readings seem accurate.
The sensor is a three wire package that hooks to ground, power (Vs) +5
to +20 VDC and to the display. It puts out 10mv per degree fahrenheit
with a current draw of 90mA... so far so good.
In order to get readings in the below zero fahrenheit range the sensor
output lead must be connected via a resistor to -Vs with a current flow
of approx 20mA. I'm in search of -Vs, and my novice mind is stuck.
From my high school ohms law, it would seem that I could create a
circuit containing two 50 ohm resistors in series with a voltage drop of
7 volts across each, then use the center connection as "ground" for the
purpose of the sensor and call the other two terminals +7 and -7VDC. (I
haven't tried to size the resistor tieing the sensor lead to -Vs (or in
this case -7VDC))
Even with the little I know, it seems that this circuit would be
wasteful and there should be a more effective way to power the simple
OAT sensor. Should I be looking at voltage regulator chips, a full power
supply, or should I just do the resistor thing, wrap it all with shrink
wrap and never speak of the inefficiencies lurking in the OAT circuit?
I'm sure by now, I've exposed my total ignorance on the subject, so I'll
close and hope for guidance or reading suggestions from wiser minds.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
I bought the "attenuating audio cable" as suggested and it worked fine
Saturday.
"Thanks" to all on both lists for the excellent suggestions. This one seems
to be the easiest to implement and best value. If I'd had a small mick to
put in earcup, that would have also been a "top pick".
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
> --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
>
> Try ...
>
>
> 42-2152
>
> 6.5' Attenuating Dubbing Cord
>
> $3.99
> ... FEATURES: Connects earphone jack from radio, cassette or CD to
> recorder's input or mic jack 1/8" phone plug on both ends Length
> 6-1/2-feet
>
> Radio Shack
> 42-2152
>
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Carter
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:33 PM
> > To: RV-list; aeroelectric-list
> > Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
> >
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> >
>
>
> >[SNIP]
>
> >
> > When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is
> > distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be
> > compatible with
> > video recorder.
> > Appreciate any tips.
> >
> > David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple electronics question |
Phil Collins wrote:
>
>
>I have what I think is a simple electronics question, but being an
>electronics simpleton I don't have the simple answer. Any suggestions
>or direction for further study would be appreciated.
>
>I want to use National Semiconductor LM34 temperature sensor to create
>an OAT display in my cockpit. So far I've hooked up the sensor and
>tested it in the freezer, in front of a Halogen light and in ice water
>and have recorded temps on my OAT display of +5 to +165F. The temp
>readings seem accurate.
>
>The sensor is a three wire package that hooks to ground, power (Vs) +5
>to +20 VDC and to the display. It puts out 10mv per degree fahrenheit
>with a current draw of 90mA... so far so good.
>
>In order to get readings in the below zero fahrenheit range the sensor
>output lead must be connected via a resistor to -Vs with a current flow
>of approx 20mA. I'm in search of -Vs, and my novice mind is stuck.
>>From my high school ohms law, it would seem that I could create a
>circuit containing two 50 ohm resistors in series with a voltage drop of
>7 volts across each, then use the center connection as "ground" for the
>purpose of the sensor and call the other two terminals +7 and -7VDC. (I
>haven't tried to size the resistor tieing the sensor lead to -Vs (or in
>this case -7VDC))
>
>Even with the little I know, it seems that this circuit would be
>wasteful and there should be a more effective way to power the simple
>OAT sensor. Should I be looking at voltage regulator chips, a full power
>supply, or should I just do the resistor thing, wrap it all with shrink
>wrap and never speak of the inefficiencies lurking in the OAT circuit?
>I'm sure by now, I've exposed my total ignorance on the subject, so I'll
>close and hope for guidance or reading suggestions from wiser minds.
>
>Thanks,
>Phil
>
Phil,
Something must be wrong there. It is hard to believe that this circuit
draws 90mA, they typically take very little current, a small fraction
of milliamper with no load, and the maximum current allowed to draw
from them is only several mA . At such currents it does not make sense
to call the circuit "wastefull", unless you plan to use a tiny watch
battery as a power source. Could you please check the current and
connections again? What meter do you use on the output i.e. what is its
internal resistance? Maybe you overload the circuit with a low
resistance meter. Does the sensor get hot?
At 90 mA and 5V supply voltage you would be generayting almost 1/2 watt
in the tiny sensor, and that should make it quite hot.
Jerzy
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Simple electronics question |
Phil,
Check out the two following sensors
LM335
LM61
These should be easier to interface to for negative temperatures using a
single positive power supply.
Of course the simplest solution is buy a temperature monitor from radio
shack or target that runs on an 'AA' battery and has an LCD.
Of course if you are trying to build a temperature monitor as a fun
experiment, then enjoy.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Collins
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Simple electronics question
I have what I think is a simple electronics question, but being an
electronics simpleton I don't have the simple answer. Any suggestions
or direction for further study would be appreciated.
I want to use National Semiconductor LM34 temperature sensor to create
an OAT display in my cockpit. So far I've hooked up the sensor and
tested it in the freezer, in front of a Halogen light and in ice water
and have recorded temps on my OAT display of +5 to +165F. The temp
readings seem accurate.
The sensor is a three wire package that hooks to ground, power (Vs) +5
to +20 VDC and to the display. It puts out 10mv per degree fahrenheit
with a current draw of 90mA... so far so good.
In order to get readings in the below zero fahrenheit range the sensor
output lead must be connected via a resistor to -Vs with a current flow
of approx 20mA. I'm in search of -Vs, and my novice mind is stuck.
From my high school ohms law, it would seem that I could create a
circuit containing two 50 ohm resistors in series with a voltage drop of
7 volts across each, then use the center connection as "ground" for the
purpose of the sensor and call the other two terminals +7 and -7VDC. (I
haven't tried to size the resistor tieing the sensor lead to -Vs (or in
this case -7VDC))
Even with the little I know, it seems that this circuit would be
wasteful and there should be a more effective way to power the simple
OAT sensor. Should I be looking at voltage regulator chips, a full power
supply, or should I just do the resistor thing, wrap it all with shrink
wrap and never speak of the inefficiencies lurking in the OAT circuit?
I'm sure by now, I've exposed my total ignorance on the subject, so I'll
close and hope for guidance or reading suggestions from wiser minds.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically wondering
about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5 wires each. 24
gage? That appears to be what the servos come with? what about small,
sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations anyone?
Gary Casey
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Simple Electronics Question-Negative Voltage |
Phil,
There a lot of ways to do this in DC circuits. Imagine your power supply
charging up a capacitor. When the cap is full of charge, the right switches
are thrown and now the cap is upside down. Little ICs can this this with
aplomb.
See: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/782/ln/en
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father did....
Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his airplane."
--anonymous
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
Gary
Try some of these companies. alpha, belden, carol,
http://bwcecom.belden.com/
http://www.alphawire.com/
http://www.generalcable.com/
Regards
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: cabling
>
> What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically
wondering
> about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5 wires each. 24
> gage? That appears to be what the servos come with? what about small,
> sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations anyone?
>
> Gary Casey
> Lancair ES
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Gary,
You can buy it from Ray Allen Company the servo manufacturers, it isn't cheap
somewhere around $1/ft http://www.rayallencompany.com/
Dave Burnham
> What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically
wondering
> about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5 wires each. 24
> gage? That appears to be what the servos come with? what about small,
> sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations anyone?
>
> Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
This bounced last night - fwding to Aeroelec List only this morning.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter"
>
> I bought the "attenuating audio cable" as suggested and it worked fine
> Saturday.
>
> "Thanks" to all on both lists for the excellent suggestions. This one
seems
> to be the easiest to implement and best value. If I'd had a small mick to
> put in earcup, that would have also been a "top pick".
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> >
> > Try ...> > 42-2152
> >
> > 6.5' Attenuating Dubbing Cord $3.99
> > ... FEATURES: Connects earphone jack from radio, cassette or CD to
> > recorder's input or mic jack 1/8" phone plug on both ends Length
> > 6-1/2-feet
> >
> > Radio Shack
> > 42-2152
> >
> > James> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Carter
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:33 PM
> > > To: RV-list; aeroelectric-list
> > > Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter"
>>
> > >[SNIP]
>
> > > When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is
> > > distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be
> > > compatible with
> > > video recorder.
> > > Appreciate any tips.
> > >
> > > David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Ray Allen Co. sells 5-conductor wire specifically for use with their servos.
http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html
On that page see WC2...5 WIRE TEFLON INSTALLATION CABLE
$1 per foot
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: cabling
>
> What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically
wondering
> about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5 wires each. 24
> gage? That appears to be what the servos come with? what about small,
> sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations anyone?
>
> Gary Casey
> Lancair ES
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically wondering
>about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5 wires each. 24
>gage? That appears to be what the servos come with? what about small,
>sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations anyone?
Commercial offerings will be irradiated PVC wires at best
and you'll probably have to buy 100' minimum to get what you
need. Just 'cause the actuator is fitted with 24AWG wires
(IMHO a poor design choice) doesn't mean you're obligated
to wire the rest of the system with an equally poor choice
of wire. If it were my airplane, I'd run 5 strands of 22AWG
22759/16 along with any other wires that are headed that
way and bundle 'em up with string or tye-wraps. A connector
at the actuator is easy. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Substitute for Shoo Goo |
I found some E6000 in the local Wal-mart yesterday in the fabrics dept. Our
local Jo-Ann Fabrics did not have it.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Landucci" <lllanducci(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Substitute for Shoo Goo
>
> In our area (Madison, WI) the E6000 adhesive is available at Jo-Ann
> Fabrics.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Steitle <msteitle(at)mail.utexas.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple electronics question |
Phil,
First a caveat, I'm no EE. I know enough about electronics to be
dangerous. But I too am interested in using such a device for temperature
measurement and was surfing the web and found this article. It shows how
to do what you are proposing with an LM34 by adding one resistor and two
diodes to the circuit. The url is
http://www.pigselectronics.com/graphics/lm34app.pdf Looks like a simple
solution to your problem. Hope this helps.
Mark S.
>I want to use National Semiconductor LM34 temperature sensor to create
>an OAT display in my cockpit. So far I've hooked up the sensor and
>tested it in the freezer, in front of a Halogen light and in ice water
>and have recorded temps on my OAT display of +5 to +165F. The temp
>readings seem accurate.
>
>Thanks,
>Phil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Cat5e-- you can get this in plenum grade easily.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
- - Leonard Cohen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Quality of Lead Acid Batteries?Cheap Vs Expensive |
At Wal-Mart, they sell batteries of two price/warranty grades. For the
same application, there will be a $40.00 and a $60.00 unit. The warranty
is twice as long on the expensive one, and the 'reserve capacity'
measurement is slightly higher on the high end battery.
Anyone care to comment on the relative benefits, aside from the fact that
the higher priced one seems to have 10% or so more amp hours?
Any thoughts on the cost effectiveness?
Dave Leonard (Cheapskate at large!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>Cat5e-- you can get this in plenum grade easily.
UGH!!!! 24AWG SOLID WIRE in an airplane???????
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Schroeder <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hi Gary -
Email Deb Sullivan and get a quote. I priced 22 awg, 5 wire and got a
quote of $.94 per foot. This seems a bit high, but they have the best
prices, by far, for wire that I have been able to find. Maybe it is
because they have to order it and quote a 4 week delivery.
We picked up some 24awg shielded 2 wire and 3 wire (100' of each) at the
fly market at Sun N Fun for a pretty good price and plan to use that -
laced together in a harness.
Some folks have used the small connectors used by the RC airplane folks.
I'd shrink tube the connection after you get it assembled and checked out.
Cheers,
John
> What is the best source for multi-wire cables? I am specifically
> wondering about cables for my rudder and elevator trim tab servos, 5
> wires each. 24 gage? That appears to be what the servos come with?
> what about small, sealed connectors for these cables? Recommendations
> anyone?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SD 8 Alternator wiring |
>
>I'm installing a Vans 60amp internally regulated alternator with a B&C SD8
>as a backup. The printed insert sent with the B&C indicate that a over
>voltage protection isn't necessary with this type of alternator since
>"regenerative over-voltage failures are not possible". If this is true
>then there would appear to be a contradiction with DWG 504-500, also from
>B&C which shows a crowbar OVM in this system along with S8005-1.
That sounds like an old installation sheet . . . OV
protection is ALWAYS optional, it just depends on
how you perceive risk. I'm unaware of any SD-8
alternator rectifier/regulators that have been
returned for ov failure. I'll forward this to
B&C also in case there have been incidents I'm
unaware of.
I AM aware of failures that can occur in components
of the SD-8 that will produce un-controlled, full output
from the alternator. So, if it were my airplane and
in spite of the stellar record of the SD-8 (and
alternators with built in regulators) I'd add
ov protection.
>My question: Other than the PMR1 regulator and filter capacitor is there
>any specific reason to add OVM protection to the SD8, as a standby alternator?
None other than the fact that risk of ov condition
is small but not zero. You can decide for yourself
whether or not you'll take this "vaccine" . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Collins" <philc1(at)ix.netcom.com> |
What a great group! Thanks for your help!
--> krasinski(at)direcway.com
> Something must be wrong there. It is hard to believe that this
circuit
> draws 90mA, they typically take very little current, a small
fraction
> of milliamper with no load, and the maximum current allowed to draw
> from them is only several mA .
Exactly Jerzy, a thousand times wrong! The sensor uses 90 microamperes.
That was my mistake and I agree, at that level it can't be called
wasteful.
> Check out the two following sensors
> LM335
> LM61
>
> These should be easier to interface to for negative temperatures
using a single positive power supply.
>
> Of course the simplest solution is buy a temperature monitor from
radio shack or target that runs on an 'AA'
> battery >and has an LCD.
>
> Of course if you are trying to build a temperature monitor as a fun
experiment, then enjoy.
Thanks Trampas, if I can't make the LM34 work I'll try the LM61. The
LM34 is calibrated to output 10mV per degree fahrenheit directly (500mV
= 50 degrees F). My brain still works in degrees F :-) And yes, it's
an experiment to see if I can use the existing electronic ignition
advance display (10mV/degree) on my panel to also display OAT.
-->
> this article... shows how to do what you are proposing with an LM34
by adding one resistor and two
> diodes to the circuit. The url is
http://www.pigselectronics.com/graphics/lm34app.pdf Looks like
> a simple solution to your problem. Hope this helps.
Excellent! I'm not sure I completely understand the two diodes, but
you're right it's exactly what I would like to do. Thanks Mark
-->
>There a lot of ways to do this in DC circuits. Imagine your power
supply charging up a capacitor. When the cap is
> full of charge, the right switches are thrown and now the cap is
upside down. Little ICs can this this with
> aplomb.
>
> See: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/782/ln/en
Neat solution! I like the learning that comes from this whole building
process. Without the help of the knowledgable people in this group, much
of it wouldn't be possible. Now that I understand the current
requirements better, I think I can resolve the issue. If nothing else
works I can use a 9V battery for -VS.
Thanks to everyone!
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
It's available stranded, also...
Good for non thermocouple sensors, I'd think...
-John
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Cat5e-- you can get this in plenum grade easily.
>>
>>
>
> UGH!!!! 24AWG SOLID WIRE in an airplane???????
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> Expensive |
| Subject: | Re: Quality of Lead Acid Batteries?Cheap Vs |
Expensive
Expensive
>
>
>At Wal-Mart, they sell batteries of two price/warranty grades. For the
>same application, there will be a $40.00 and a $60.00 unit. The warranty
>is twice as long on the expensive one, and the 'reserve capacity'
>measurement is slightly higher on the high end battery.
>
>Anyone care to comment on the relative benefits, aside from the fact that
>the higher priced one seems to have 10% or so more amp hours?
>Any thoughts on the cost effectiveness?
Do you plan to do periodic capacity checks so that you
can track the battery's real capability? If not, then
debating the quality, longevity, warranty etc is a mute point.
Yearly change-out of a cheap battery will get you about
the best system reliability with a minimum of
effort and minimal test equipment requirements. If
you're going to buy a $100 battery and become obligated
to stretch it to the limits, then you need to decide
what your limits really are and acquire a means by
which you KNOW then they are reached. 9 out of 10
airplane owners don't want to do this, and half
of those that do probably won't do it anyhow . . . so
their $100 battery will get treated just like the
average spam-can battery . . .
Check chapter 17 again.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski(at)direcway.com> |
I just found a nice and not too expensive humidity sensor.
It has humidity range 0 - 100% with voltage output of 1V to 3.7V
respectively.
It is fast, it recovers from 150 hours of condensation within 10 seconds.
Three wires: 5V, ground and output .
Dimensions roughly 1/2" x 2".
It is Humirel model HM 1500 and sold by Digikey, $30 . I have already
ordered it.
Is anybody aware of a publication showing carburator icing range of
humidity vs. temperature. I am sure that there was research on that
topic and a table like that must be somewhere. So far I did not find it.
Thank you,
Jerzy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | carburetor icing |
>From: Jerzy Krasinski (krasinski(at)direcway.com)
>Is anybody aware of a publication showing carburator icing range of
>humidity vs. temperature. I am sure that there was research on that
>topic and a table like that must be somewhere. So far I did not find it.
Well not when you spell it like that! Search "Carburetor Icing" on the NACA
technical report server. Lots of stuff.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neville Kilford" <nkilford(at)etravel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
Jerzy,
Have a look at:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl14.pdf
It's the CAA's publication, for GA pilots, about icing and has the chart you
describe.
Hope this helps.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress.
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerzy Krasinski" <krasinski(at)direcway.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
> I just found a nice and not too expensive humidity sensor.
> It has humidity range 0 - 100% with voltage output of 1V to 3.7V
> respectively.
> It is fast, it recovers from 150 hours of condensation within 10 seconds.
> Three wires: 5V, ground and output .
> Dimensions roughly 1/2" x 2".
> It is Humirel model HM 1500 and sold by Digikey, $30 . I have already
> ordered it.
>
> Is anybody aware of a publication showing carburator icing range of
> humidity vs. temperature. I am sure that there was research on that
> topic and a table like that must be somewhere. So far I did not find it.
>
> Thank you,
> Jerzy
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitch Trim Motor Slowdown |
Bob, the motor drives my pitch trim, and it is too fast for fine control.
Your suggestion to put a power supply on the motor and measure current and
speed is good; I'll do it next time I have the rear bulkheads out. I'll
also test to see if the torque is adequate with lower voltages. Thanks.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitch Trim Motor Slowdown
>
> ><joberst@cox-internet.com>
> >
> >I previously posted a question on how to cut down the speed of my 12V DC
> >pitch trim motor. I got one response, which suggested I use the the
> >Matronics Mark III adjustable speed governor. I have two issues with
> >this... first, it is unclear to me what the current capacity of this unit
is
> >(does anyone know that? - I am not using MAC servos)... second, it looks
> >like a bit of overkill, as I don't want adjustable speed,
ground-actuation,
> >multiple switches - just a permanent slowdown to one speed.
> >
> >Can anyone explain to me what the design goal is for a DC motor slowdown
> >circuit? I've been told that a simple dropping resistor could cause the
> >motor to overheat. Also, I don't want to do something to reduce the
torque.
> >Will a fixed voltage regulator do it, or does it need to be pulsed, or??
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Jim Oberst
>
> You got the long answer, let's look at your specific application.
> What motor do you want to control and what system does it drive?
> How have you deduced that you'll need to control the speed of this
> motor? Have you put a power supply on the motor to see what
> new voltage and current are required?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Radio Shack Relays |
What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've picked
up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake control, etc., and
I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw down to the aircraft or something....
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Richardson" <scott_m_richardson(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Radio Shack Relays |
Brett,
I just bought a couple of similar relays (275-206) from Radio Shack and
they came with a socket base that pops into a hole of appropriate
material.
The base has a spring wire keeper to keep the relay plugged in. I
intend
to mount mine to the outside of a small Aluminum hobby box and wire
everything up inside. The -206's are smaller (3A if memory serves), but
I'd be surprised if RS didn't have a similar socket base for yours.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Ferrell
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Shack Relays
-->
What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've
picked up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake
control, etc., and I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw
down to the aircraft or something....
Brett
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian " <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | Another SLA question |
I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
to regulate the charge, or will it only take what it needs? If I just
connect it to the power supply (13.8V) .
I.e. do I need to current limit or voltage limit the Little SLAV while
it is charging?
Thanks
Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack Relays |
I think the relays that you are referring to are similar to those sold by
digikey (at least the 4PDT's are). The base has metal clips that keep it in
place and the actual relay can be secured to the base with a bail (digi-key
part number z796-nd)...28 cents.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Shack Relays
>
> What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've
picked up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake control,
etc., and I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw down to the
aircraft or something....
>
> Brett
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Stepper or other motors? |
I'm looking for a solution for 2 or 3 axis autopilot, to be controlled
(initially) by a pc or laptop. Attitude information is already in the
computer. I assume that a stepper motor is my best solution but I can't
find one that can handle the 30 in-lbs that I've been told are needed.
If I can find one of the "regular" autopilot motors for a decent price, how
would I get feedback on it's position? That is, to set "home" for straight
and level flight, and etc.
Any ideas? This is for a Mustang II, a homebuilt.
Thanks,
AI Nut
Cost is *always* a consideration! 8-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
>
>
>I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
>to regulate the charge, or will it only take what it needs? If I just
>connect it to the power supply (13.8V) .
>
>I.e. do I need to current limit or voltage limit the Little SLAV while
>it is charging?
Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
to top off in hours.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>That wire was used in telephones from the handset to base and base to the
>wall. I have an old bakelite telephone that has that type of wire. It was
>actually crimped on to a connector that was then screwed to a terminal.
That's called "tinsel" wire. It's a copper foil wound around
a cotton thread core . . . VERY flexible, VERY resistant to
flexure breakage, VERY VERY difficult to work with.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Charging through Cig lighter |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
>> I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
>> to regulate the charge,
>
> Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
> just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
> my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
> to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> to top off in hours.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob will this route work in the opposite direction for my airplane? That is
use the cigar lighter or power outlet, as they are sometimes called today,
to charge the onboard 16 ah battery with a low amp or trickle charger
adapted to plug into the cigar lighter.
Thanks
Don B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
on 12/9/03 10:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I read your book the first time.
>> Highlited the second time.
>> Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
>> How would one remove the internal regulator.
>
> You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
> as shown in figure Z-24
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions.
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
I am on the list. That is how I sent this to you.
The reason I asked about your recomendation to take out the internal VR, is
that it looks to be easier to wire the whole package if I use the LRC3-14.
As opposed to the seperate parts listed in Z-24. Just trying to get an idea
why you have a distaste for the internal VR. Trying to justify the
additional cost.
Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
. . . 13.8 if you're going
> to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> to top off in hours.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery
manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for floating
charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging.
How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this
voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in flight.
Flight after flight the battery will sag.
Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ?
Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by sensing
battery voltage and current draw ?
Thanks,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F1Rocket(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | PTT Ground Wire Question |
Bob,
I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after doing so, I realized
that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other microswitches in
the handle. That means that the trim switches, autopilot, and flap switches are
all grounded together.
In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I see that the PTT switch is usually
grounded directly to the headphone jacks and subsequently, through the
radio chassis.
Do you anticipate a noise problem in the PTT circuit with the way I have them grounded?
I'm just wondering how important this is. If I need to re-wire the
PTT switch, I'd rather do it now rather than after I'm flying. Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PTT Ground Wire Question |
>
>Bob,
>
>I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after doing
>so, I realized that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other
>microswitches in the handle. That means that the trim switches,
>autopilot, and flap switches are all grounded together.
>
>In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I see that the PTT switch
>is usually grounded directly to the headphone jacks and subsequently,
>through the radio chassis.
>
>Do you anticipate a noise problem in the PTT circuit with the way I have
>them grounded? I'm just wondering how important this is. If I need to
>re-wire the PTT switch, I'd rather do it now rather than after I'm
>flying. Thanks.
It will probably be fine. PTT circuits are not strong
potential antagonists or victims. Truck on . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
>
>on 12/9/03 10:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Bob,
> >> I read your book the first time.
> >> Highlited the second time.
> >> Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
> >> How would one remove the internal regulator.
> >
> > You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
> > as shown in figure Z-24
> >
> > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> > to continue this and similar discussions.
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>I am on the list. That is how I sent this to you.
>The reason I asked about your recomendation to take out the internal VR, is
>that it looks to be easier to wire the whole package if I use the LRC3-14.
>As opposed to the seperate parts listed in Z-24. Just trying to get an idea
>why you have a distaste for the internal VR. Trying to justify the
>additional cost.
>Thanks,
Oops. I saw you were on the list right after I hit the "send" button.
I'd just answered a bunch of direct inquiries and was in that groove . . .
Not a "distaste" . . . you makes your choice and you adjust
architecture to accommodate. Internally regulated alternators
should have external ov protection re: Fig Z-24 -OR-
you take the regulator out and wire as shown in a variety
of alternative drawings.
Unless you're confident of your ability to remove the regulator
from your particular model of alternator, there is a risk that
you'll create more problems than you'll fix . . . but then,
nobody every said education was free . . . I had a builder
try to mod a junkyard ND alternator 3 times before he finally
bought one from B&C.
At one time, B&C used to do this mod for customer supplied
ND alternators . . . had to give it up when alternators
didn't last like B&C's new products . . . in spite of
customer perception of B&C holy-water having been sprinkled
on their junk yard refugee.
It all depends on how you want to spend your time
and what goals you have for understanding how
your machine is put together. It's easy to leave the regulator
in, wire per Z-24 and get your airplane flying. If you're
truly interested in mastering the techniques necessary for
a reliable modification, by all means go for it . . . but
unless your confidence level is very high, I'd suggest you
make this a winter time project for some point after your
airplane is flying.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Boddicker <trumanst(at)netins.net> |
Thanks Bob. I was waiting to order the parts. Now I know which way to go.
on 12/11/03 12:48 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net wrote:
I'd suggest youmake this a winter time project for some point after your
airplane is flying.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Microphone Wiring questions |
Bob/Others,
Two quick questions, in your microphone wiring diagram, the copilot's yellow wire
seem to be free-floating, is it in fact not used? Second, if you have an audio
panel that allows both pilot's to talk on different radios, such as the SL15,
how is the wiring different (or is the pilot side simply given priority)?
Thanks.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob (Rocketboy)" <f1rocketboy(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stepper or other motors? |
You can buy a servo from Navaid devices. It has feedback built into it. Or
when you find the stepper you want, you will need to add either a absolute
optical encoder or a postion feedback pot. These send a signal back to the
computer as to control position. FWIW, some autopilots use only a motor with
no feedback such as the STEC series. They sense the aircraft movement as
feedback. This works well with slow moving servos.
So where are you getting you attitude reference?
Good luck!
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stepper or other motors?
>
> I'm looking for a solution for 2 or 3 axis autopilot, to be controlled
> (initially) by a pc or laptop. Attitude information is already in the
> computer. I assume that a stepper motor is my best solution but I can't
> find one that can handle the 30 in-lbs that I've been told are needed.
>
> If I can find one of the "regular" autopilot motors for a decent price,
how
> would I get feedback on it's position? That is, to set "home" for
straight
> and level flight, and etc.
>
> Any ideas? This is for a Mustang II, a homebuilt.
>
> Thanks,
> AI Nut
> Cost is *always* a consideration! 8-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Loadmeter wiring |
Bob,
Is there any chance that the wiring diagram that came with my loadmeter is
incorrect? The reason I ask is this.
The wiring diagram shows the Voltmeter hooked up to pins 4 and 5 and the
loadmeter to pins 1 and 3. When I put a ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
loadmeter needle moves and when I put the ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
voltmeter needle moves. This seems oppisite from the wiring diagram I have.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>. . . 13.8 if you're going
> > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> > to top off in hours.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>
>Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery
>manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for floating
>charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging.
How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this
>voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in flight.
>Flight after flight the battery will sag.
If your engine is well tuned, you'll use a very small percentage
of total battery capacity to get the engine started. A setting as
low as 13.8 WILL achieve 100% charge on a battery and for replacing
less than 10%, I can't imagine any flight not long enough to put
say 1.7 a.h. back into a battery.
>Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ?
>Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by sensing
>battery voltage and current draw ?
You could do that. Most regulators on single engine aircraft
are set for 14.0 to 14.5 volts. I you've got a rotax 912, it
seems that you can boost the rectifier/regulator's set-point by
adding a small resistance in series with the sense lead "C".
But unless you've got a really beat-down battery, a setting
of 13.8 shouldn't be a big problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Charging through Cig lighter |
>
> >> I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
> >> to regulate the charge,
> >
> > Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
> > just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
> > my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
> > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> > to top off in hours.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob will this route work in the opposite direction for my airplane? That is
>use the cigar lighter or power outlet, as they are sometimes called today,
>to charge the onboard 16 ah battery with a low amp or trickle charger
>adapted to plug into the cigar lighter.
The cigar lighter style super-ugly-power-jack is usually only
connected while the battery master is closed. This means you
power up the airplane to charge the battery. Better to added
a dedicated battery charging jack to the aircraft that bypasses
the battery master. You can tie it right to a battery bus fuse
slot.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
Hi all,
I will use MGL Avionics instruments "Smart Single" line ( http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Pages/Smart%20Singles.htm ).
Wiring diagram always indicate a Transorb 33V protection device witch seems to
work like the OVM. See
http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Manuals/Transorb%20power%20supply%20surge%20protection.doc for details.
Who had heard about that ?
Does it be redundant with OVM ?
Thanks,
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress ....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
:
Envoy : vendredi 12 dcembre 2003 05:45
Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Another SLA question
>
> ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >. . . 13.8 if you're going
> > > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> > > to top off in hours.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery
> >manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for
floating
> >charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging.
>
> How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this
> >voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in
flight.
> >Flight after flight the battery will sag.
>
> If your engine is well tuned, you'll use a very small percentage
> of total battery capacity to get the engine started. A setting as
> low as 13.8 WILL achieve 100% charge on a battery and for replacing
> less than 10%, I can't imagine any flight not long enough to put
> say 1.7 a.h. back into a battery.
>
> >Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ?
> >Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by
sensing
> >battery voltage and current draw ?
>
> You could do that. Most regulators on single engine aircraft
> are set for 14.0 to 14.5 volts. I you've got a rotax 912, it
> seems that you can boost the rectifier/regulator's set-point by
> adding a small resistance in series with the sense lead "C".
> But unless you've got a really beat-down battery, a setting
> of 13.8 shouldn't be a big problem.
Bob,
Thank you.
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net> |
| Subject: | tach output converter |
Gentlemen,
As I seem to have exhausted the knowledge or willingness of the manufacturers to
help me I am throwing this out to you:
I have a V8 autoconversion (LS1) which has individual coils for each cylinder driven
by two aftermarket Haltech computers (one per 4 cylinders). There is a "tach
output" from the computer which is 5V square wave. This apparently has been
a problem as new generations of these computers have a 5/12v option (which
mine does not ). The Grand Rapids engine monitor will not read the 5v signal and
the owner tells me it needs to be 12v.
What I am looking for is a simple circuit to convert this 5v pulsed signal to 12v
with the same pulses. I have built a few simple Radio Shack circuits but really
don't have a good background in electronics. Soooo, if someone knows how
to solve make a circuit as described please don't just say "yea, no problem,
just use a xxxx12002" cuz I won't know what you're talking about. If you can
send me a schematic or detailed description or a place to look that would be great.
I realize that there are "tach adaptors" out there. Autometer makes one but it
has to be spliced into a coil wiring and they weren't sure it would work)
I also have heard about inductive pickups to put on a spark plug wire but can't
find a source. This would be the simple solution if anyone knows where I can
get one. Thanks.
Mark Means
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | tach output converter |
Mark,
It is a pretty simple circuit, see enclosed picture.
Basically the input pin is connected to a NPN transistor. When the input pin
gets over 1V on input the transistor turns on and the output pin goes to 0V.
When the input pin is at 0V then the output pin is at 12V, as the transistor
is off.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Means
Subject: AeroElectric-List: tach output converter
Gentlemen,
As I seem to have exhausted the knowledge or willingness of the
manufacturers to help me I am throwing this out to you:
I have a V8 autoconversion (LS1) which has individual coils for each
cylinder driven by two aftermarket Haltech computers (one per 4 cylinders).
There is a "tach output" from the computer which is 5V square wave. This
apparently has been a problem as new generations of these computers have a
5/12v option (which mine does not ). The Grand Rapids engine monitor will
not read the 5v signal and the owner tells me it needs to be 12v.
What I am looking for is a simple circuit to convert this 5v pulsed signal
to 12v with the same pulses. I have built a few simple Radio Shack circuits
but really don't have a good background in electronics. Soooo, if someone
knows how to solve make a circuit as described please don't just say "yea,
no problem, just use a xxxx12002" cuz I won't know what you're talking
about. If you can send me a schematic or detailed description or a place to
look that would be great.
I realize that there are "tach adaptors" out there. Autometer makes one but
it has to be spliced into a coil wiring and they weren't sure it would work)
I also have heard about inductive pickups to put on a spark plug wire but
can't find a source. This would be the simple solution if anyone knows where
I can get one. Thanks.
Mark Means
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
>Wiring diagram always indicate a Transorb 33V protection device witch seems
to
>work like the OVM.
>Who had heard about that ?
>Does it be redundant with OVM ?
>Thanks, Michel RIAZUELO
Michel,
The Transorbs and similar devices are best considered useful for shorter
transients. The OVM is best for overvoltage conditions that are either long
or permanent like a failed regulator. One key feature of the OVM is that it
can monitor the voltage on one circuit (like the main bus) and if it goes
too high, the OVM can trip the circuit protection device on another circuit
(like the alternator field). The Transorb can't do that without help.
Nusiance tripping of the OVM could often be cured by a Transorb. A Transorb
before the input of expensive electronics is a good idea, and most expensive
electronics has a Transorb or something quite similar inside it already.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | f1rocket(at)telus.net |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder coax choice |
Would the RG-400 or RG-142B(I'm guessing B because you mention FEP) good for
the VHF (nav/comm) as well?
Jeff
Quoting "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" :
>
>
>
> >Dear Bob:
> >
> >I am building a Rans S6S. My avionics include an ICOM transceiver and a
> >King Mode C transponder. The antennas are about 12 feet from the panel. >Do
> you think it is OK for me to use RG 58U feed line or should I go to a >lower
> loss variety?
>
> Loss isn't the biggest issue. RG-58 is a WWII veteran that
> needs to be retired. Its materials and design are of that
> era (single layer tinned braid, polyethylene inner insulation,
> PVC outer insulation. Modern coax like RG-400 or RG-142 will
> have double outer conductor that is silver plated, outer
> insulation of FEP and inner insulation of PTFE . . . both
> are modern, high temperature chemical resistant materials.
> A side benefit is lower loss but superior materials and
> construction is what you're really looking for.
>
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
> share the information with as many folks as possible.
> A further benefit can be realized with membership on
> the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
> on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
> join at . . .
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard(at)riley.net |
| Subject: | Fwd: NavAid for sale |
Reposted from the Velocity mailing list, because I think there might be a
market for this here... Don't contact me, this is Nolan's.
======================================
Gentlemen,
I have an unused, never installed Navaid AP with Porcines's Smart
Coupler II that I will let go for a paltry $1200.
Nolan Frederick
nvincent(at)idcomm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem |
Anyone else using this combination with a PTT defeat input as suggested in
the AP-1 wiring diagram?
I'm curious if the diode that is shown in the diagram between the Com and
the PTT switch is required. I have bench tested (without the NavAid unit
installed) this wiring method on the bench with my Com1 (iCom A200) and the
Com2 (MicroAir 760) and have run into a problem. With the diode installed,
the 760 will not key up when the PTT is dropped to ground. The iCom unit
works just fine with this arrangement. I suspect the 760 uses a solid state
relay and is not compatible with the extra diode in-line with the PTT
ground.
If someone else has encountered this too, please let me know how you dealt
with it. At this moment, I plan to eliminate the diode. It should work
fine, in theory.
To clarify, I am definitely going to include the PTT defeat line for the
AP-1 so that transmits do not interfere with autopilot functions. The real
question is simply - can this be done with the same PTT "take-off" line
hook-up to the AP-1, but WITHOUT the installation of a diode between the Com
and the PTT switch and ground. Remember, the diode is in front of the
radio's PTT line, not the autopilot just as depicted in the AP-1 wiring
diagram.
This "keying" problem is only shown in the MicroAir radio, as the other iCom
works just fine with the diode between it and the PTT ground. Both radios
also key properly without the diode installed (verifies that the PTT
circuits themselves are correct).
So, the only variable is the diode itself. Both tests were run without the
AP-1 installed, it's function is not in question - only the inability to
"key" the MicroAir 760 with a diode in-between it and PTT ground seems to be
an issue.
Ideas?
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob (Rocketboy)" <f1rocketboy(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem |
I'm using a 760 with a navid A/P with no diode and no problems (other than
the crappy T2000 transponders endless problems).
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem
>
> Anyone else using this combination with a PTT defeat input as suggested in
> the AP-1 wiring diagram?
>
> I'm curious if the diode that is shown in the diagram between the Com and
> the PTT switch is required. I have bench tested (without the NavAid unit
> installed) this wiring method on the bench with my Com1 (iCom A200) and
the
> Com2 (MicroAir 760) and have run into a problem. With the diode
installed,
> the 760 will not key up when the PTT is dropped to ground. The iCom unit
> works just fine with this arrangement. I suspect the 760 uses a solid
state
> relay and is not compatible with the extra diode in-line with the PTT
> ground.
>
> If someone else has encountered this too, please let me know how you dealt
> with it. At this moment, I plan to eliminate the diode. It should work
> fine, in theory.
>
> To clarify, I am definitely going to include the PTT defeat line for the
> AP-1 so that transmits do not interfere with autopilot functions. The
real
> question is simply - can this be done with the same PTT "take-off" line
> hook-up to the AP-1, but WITHOUT the installation of a diode between the
Com
> and the PTT switch and ground. Remember, the diode is in front of the
> radio's PTT line, not the autopilot just as depicted in the AP-1 wiring
> diagram.
>
> This "keying" problem is only shown in the MicroAir radio, as the other
iCom
> works just fine with the diode between it and the PTT ground. Both radios
> also key properly without the diode installed (verifies that the PTT
> circuits themselves are correct).
>
> So, the only variable is the diode itself. Both tests were run without
the
> AP-1 installed, it's function is not in question - only the inability to
> "key" the MicroAir 760 with a diode in-between it and PTT ground seems to
be
> an issue.
>
> Ideas?
>
> James Redmon
> Berkut #013 N97TX
> www.berkut13.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Com antenna ground plane |
I have an external Comant com antenna that I originally thought would go on
the outside of my Lancair ES (fiberglass). I'd like to put it inside for
asthetics. I have a little shelf on the side of fuselage aft of the
baggage compartment that would be a convenient place to mount it. Can I
mount it there and have the ground plane (say strips of copper tape) on one
side of the antenna run up or down the side of the fuselage? Or does it
need to be mounted closer to the center line of the tail so that the ground
plane is to parallel with mother earth on all sides of the antenna?
Thanks,
Dan O'Brien
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ray Allen Stick Grips |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: F1Rocket(at)comcast.net
<< Bob, I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after
doing so, I realized that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other
microswitches in
the handle. That means that the trim switches, autopilot, and flap switches
are
all grounded together. In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I
see that the PTT switch is usually grounded directly to the headphone jacks
and subsequently, through the radio chassis. Do you anticipate a noise problem
in the PTT circuit with the way I have them grounded? I'm just wondering how
important this is. If I need to re-wire the PTT switch, I'd rather do it now
rather than after I'm flying. Thanks.
Randy F1 Rocket http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/ >>
12/12/2003
Hello Randy, There is a "gotcha" lurking in those Ray Allen (formerly MAC)
stick grips.
The head of the grip containing the buttons and wiring fits down into the
cylindrical foam rubber hand gripping surface. This foam rubber grip surrounds
either the metal control stick itself or a cylinder shaped plastic spacer
installed to accommodate different diameters of metal control sticks.
This means that the wiring and contacts on the bottom of the grip head can
come in direct contact with the exposed top of the metal control stick. When
this happens you can wind up with a constantly keyed radio transmitter (stuck
mike) or other adverse happenings when electrical contact is made when no contact
is intended or desired.
Shielding the top of the metal control stick with a small disc of plastic or
other insulating material should avoid the problem.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
PS: While we are on the subject of Ray Allen / MAC products I should point
out that both my LED pitch trim indicator and 8A servo have proven to be
unsatisfactory. I've had to bypass the indicator from my trim circuit because it
kept
popping the trim circuit breaker (1 amp) and also the in line 1 amp fuse that
I used to trouble shoot the system.
The 8A servo had symptoms of A) Much stronger in one direction that the
other. B) It would reach one of the end limits and then not reverse direction
unless I got to the servo and wiggled the output drive shaft. C) If the servo
became over loaded and stopped in mid run, when the over load was removed the servo
would not start moving again until I got to the servo and wiggled the output
drive shaft.
Another local builder experienced similar type problems with his servo, but
claims now to have solved those problems by opening up the servo and regluing
some tiny contact switches inside.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Morris <dave(at)davemorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Com antenna ground plane |
Ideally, the ground plane should be at a 90 degree or larger angle to the
radiating element. If the angle is less, it will change the impedance and
thus the SWR. It's not catastrophic, but may affect the range you get and
in an extreme case, might reduce the power output, if the transmitter has
high SWR protection. Better to reduce 4 ground plane foils down to 3
rather than to fold the one 4th one back onto the whip.
Dave Morris
N5UP
At 07:01 PM 12/12/2003, you wrote:
>
>I have an external Comant com antenna that I originally thought would go on
>the outside of my Lancair ES (fiberglass). I'd like to put it inside for
>asthetics. I have a little shelf on the side of fuselage aft of the
>baggage compartment that would be a convenient place to mount it. Can I
>mount it there and have the ground plane (say strips of copper tape) on one
>side of the antenna run up or down the side of the fuselage? Or does it
>need to be mounted closer to the center line of the tail so that the ground
>plane is to parallel with mother earth on all sides of the antenna?
>
>Thanks,
>Dan O'Brien
>Lancair ES
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Com antenna ground plane |
>Ideally, the ground plane should be at a 90 degree or larger angle
>to the radiating element. If the angle is less, it will change the
>impedance and thus the SWR. It's not catastrophic, but may affect
>the range you get and in an extreme case, might reduce the power
>output, if the transmitter has high SWR protection. Better to
>reduce 4 ground plane foils down to 3 rather than to fold the one
>4th one back onto the whip.
Dave, thanks for the response. A couple questions. If I were to run one
strip **up** the side of the fuselage, it would be at more than 90 degrees
to the antenna. Would this be better than leaving it off?
Also, for we lay people, what does SWR refer to? Something about range?
Thanks,
Dan O'Brien
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian " <jabiru22(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | tach output converter |
Not an expert here, but a Autronic engine management computer will run
everything form a lawn mower to a v12. maybe worth having a look at.
(mate has one in his Subaru WRX 2L 350Hp)
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Means
Subject: AeroElectric-List: tach output converter
-->
Gentlemen,
As I seem to have exhausted the knowledge or willingness of the
manufacturers to help me I am throwing this out to you:
I have a V8 autoconversion (LS1) which has individual coils for each
cylinder driven by two aftermarket Haltech computers (one per 4
cylinders). There is a "tach output" from the computer which is 5V
square wave. This apparently has been a problem as new generations of
these computers have a 5/12v option (which mine does not ). The Grand
Rapids engine monitor will not read the 5v signal and the owner tells me
it needs to be 12v.
What I am looking for is a simple circuit to convert this 5v pulsed
signal to 12v with the same pulses. I have built a few simple Radio
Shack circuits but really don't have a good background in electronics.
Soooo, if someone knows how to solve make a circuit as described please
don't just say "yea, no problem, just use a xxxx12002" cuz I won't know
what you're talking about. If you can send me a schematic or detailed
description or a place to look that would be great.
I realize that there are "tach adaptors" out there. Autometer makes one
but it has to be spliced into a coil wiring and they weren't sure it
would work)
I also have heard about inductive pickups to put on a spark plug wire
but can't find a source. This would be the simple solution if anyone
knows where I can get one. Thanks.
Mark Means
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
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==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen (and other) Stick Grips and Servos |
We live in a world where product design can evolve at lightning speed if the
market exists. Joysticks have gotten the design boost by the interest in
computer flight games. About three years ago I started to speculate whether
or not computer joysticks could be used instead of the "real kind". Now some
of the make-believe kind are almost certainly better than the "real kind".
See this for good reason to make a trip to Best Buy today:
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/cyborg_gold.htm (or many other Saitek
joysticks...but I have my heart set on these beauties!)
Several months ago Thrustmaster (PC game joysticks) introduced a metal,
extremely high quality copy of the F-16 HOTAS system for $799.00. You can
now buy them for FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS CHEAPER! In perusing the industrial
joysticks I now see more and more "Rugged ABS construction". You really have
to believe plastic is a better choice for a joystick anyway (or wood).
The very least one should do to the Ray Allen stick and others is to use
environmentally-sealed gold contact switches. Watch the current ratings too.
Regarding the Ray Allen MAC8--please see my write-up on this device.
www.periheliondesign.com/mac8trim.zip
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's
not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute con-
tinuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curtis Jaussi <jaussi(at)direcway.com> |
I have installed a Garmin 350XL with a PS Engineering CD/Intercom. The intercom
works OK--the Comm works OK to receive. When I trigger the mike, signal is
transmitted out, but the mike goes completely dead. It does not transmit anything
on the comm or the intercom. Any ideas on where to begin looking?
Curtis Jaussi Europa XL tri-gear.
jaussi(at)direcway.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Berg" <wfberg(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Installation manuals |
Does anyone out there have or have access to installation manuals for KLN-94 and
KMA-28.
Thanks for any help, Wayne Berg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Morris <dave(at)davemorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Com antenna ground plane |
How many ground plane radials do you have? It is typical to have 3 or 4,
and if you have to run one of them upward at more than a 90 degree angle to
the center whip, it won't matter that much. Some people use a screen as a
ground plane, and that screen can be bent around to accomodate the fuselage
and other objects. You just don' t want it to be folded back near the
radiating element too closely.
SWR is standing wave ratio, and refers to a measurement of the difference
between the impedance of the antenna versus that if the coax. If the
antenna is not tuned properly, is too close to other metal objects, or has
other problems, it can cause a mismatch that can produce all sorts of weird
symptoms, not the least of which is a reduction of your transmitted
signal. A quick check on Google shows several articles on SWR. For
instance: http://www.nancymoon.com/swr_soapbox.htm
Dave Morris
At 06:46 AM 12/13/2003, you wrote:
>
>
> >Ideally, the ground plane should be at a 90 degree or larger angle
>
> >to the radiating element. If the angle is less, it will change the
>
> >impedance and thus the SWR. It's not catastrophic, but may affect
>
> >the range you get and in an extreme case, might reduce the power
>
> >output, if the transmitter has high SWR protection. Better to
>
> >reduce 4 ground plane foils down to 3 rather than to fold the one
>
> >4th one back onto the whip.
>
>
>Dave, thanks for the response. A couple questions. If I were to run one
>strip **up** the side of the fuselage, it would be at more than 90 degrees
>to the antenna. Would this be better than leaving it off?
>
>Also, for we lay people, what does SWR refer to? Something about range?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dan O'Brien
>
>Lancair ES
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder coax choice |
>
>Would the RG-400 or RG-142B(I'm guessing B because you mention FEP) good for
>the VHF (nav/comm) as well?
>Jeff
Yes, ANY modern coax with reasonable performance at 1 GHz+
(transponder and GPS) frequencies will also do well at
lower (GS/COM/NAV/MB) frequencies.
If it were my airplane, RG400 would be used throughout
the aircraft.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Loadmeter Wiring |
Bob,
Is there any chance that the wiring diagram that came with my loadmeter is
incorrect? The reason I ask is this.
The wiring diagram shows the Voltmeter hooked up to pins 4 and 5 and the
loadmeter to pins 1 and 3. When I put a ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
loadmeter needle moves and when I put the ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
voltmeter needle moves. This seems oppisite from the wiring diagram I have.
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
>
>Bob,
>
>Is there any chance that the wiring diagram that came with my loadmeter is
>incorrect? The reason I ask is this.
>
>The wiring diagram shows the Voltmeter hooked up to pins 4 and 5 and the
>loadmeter to pins 1 and 3. When I put a ammeter . . .
do you mean ohmmeter?
> . . . accross pins 4 and 5 the
>loadmeter needle moves and when I put the ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
>voltmeter needle moves. This seems oppisite from the wiring diagram I have.
>
>Ross
Hmmmm . . . It appears that your instrument may be internally wired
backwards
but I'm mystified as to how it left our shop in this condition. The
instrument
would have been tested with the companion scaling module for calibration and
we should have seen the problem before it got out of here.
Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
Notice that the needle extending from the right side of the instrument
face points to the left-had LOAD% scale, the needle extending from
the left side points to the right-hand VOLTS scale. I suspect you're
seeing the right-hand needle move and associating it with the
"VOLTS" nomenclature printed on the scale plate right under the
needle . . . which would account for a reversed perception
of needle function.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
> do you mean ohmmeter?
Yes.
> Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
>
No, I am not confusing the needles. The needle located on the right that
indicates load on the left moves when I put the ohmmeter accross pins 4 and
5. I did this about 6 times because I know it didn't look right. The only
reason I checked it is because I have gone over all of my wiring 4-5 times
and can't find anything wrong. When I installed it as per the wiring
diagram, the voltmeter appears to work but the loadmeter doesn't move.
Could this occur if the instrument is wired backward internally?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Com antenna ground plane |
>SWR is standing wave ratio, and refers to a measurement of the difference
>between the impedance of the antenna versus that if the coax. If the
>antenna is not tuned properly, is too close to other metal objects, or has
>other problems, it can cause a mismatch that can produce all sorts of weird
>symptoms, not the least of which is a reduction of your transmitted
>signal. A quick check on Google shows several articles on SWR. For
>instance: http://www.nancymoon.com/swr_soapbox.htm
Not a terrible article but not very useful either. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas/Popular_Antenna_Lore.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Com antenna ground plane |
>
>I have an external Comant com antenna that I originally thought would go on
>the outside of my Lancair ES (fiberglass). I'd like to put it inside for
>asthetics. I have a little shelf on the side of fuselage aft of the
>baggage compartment that would be a convenient place to mount it. Can I
>mount it there and have the ground plane (say strips of copper tape) on one
>side of the antenna run up or down the side of the fuselage? Or does it
>need to be mounted closer to the center line of the tail so that the ground
>plane is to parallel with mother earth on all sides of the antenna?
What you propose will probably work fine. Run ground plane strips
out horizontally as far as practical and then bend them up or down
the side/bottom of fuselage as practical. It's better to go down
than up with ground plane tips. In final analysis, you'll probably
see no difference in performance from either ground plane
shape or symmetry around the base of the antenna. Wouldn't hurt
to "scan" the antenna's electrical performance with an analyzer
after installation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Stick Grips |
Hi all,
> This means that the wiring and contacts on the bottom of the grip head can
> come in direct contact with the exposed top of the metal control stick.
I'm not quite sure I clearly understand this one. The main problem with
those Ray Allen stick grips is that there is no reasonnable room provided
for the connections in the grip head. The wires are tightly packed inside
the head, putting the wires and solders at risk of being broken.
I used a multi conductor wire, and there is no bare wire or connections
apart those in the stick heads and those in the connector at the end of the
two foot wire, outside the sticks.
Tossed the tiny wires supplied by Ray Allen.
How did you install your wires ?
Regards,
Gilles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Com antenna ground plane |
Bob,
Got a corrupt file error while trying to open or download the document.
Regards,
Gilles
. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas/Popular_Antenna_Lore.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I will use MGL Avionics instruments "Smart Single" line (
>http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Pages/Smart%20Singles.htm ).
>
>Wiring diagram always indicate a Transorb 33V protection device witch
>seems to work like the OVM. See
>http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Manuals/Transorb%20power%20supply%20surge%20protection.doc
>for details.
>
>Who had heard about that ?
>Does it be redundant with OVM ?
The Transorb is a close cousin to the zener voltage regulator diode
that will go into conduction at some voltage just above its rated
value. There have been numerous articles circulated in the OBAM aircraft
community advocating use of these devices. The one cited by Michel
is typicaL . . .
Quoting from the article:
------------------
Transorbs work by clamping any excessive voltage to a certain limit.
Transorbs available from MGL Avionics clamp at 33V. They do this by
conducting anytime excessive voltage is present between the two terminals.
For a short time, the transorb will absorb almost unbelievable amounts of
power, should this be required. The transorb also reacts within a few
billionth of a second making it far superior to any traditional solution.
In order to protect your electronic equipment correctly, it is required to
install an inline fuse or fused circuit breaker. Choose a trip current that
is sufficient for the supply of all your equipment and do take into account
the current requirements of a radio if you are transmitting.
We recommend that you create a power rail consisting out of DC plus and
minus rails for your electronic equipment and protect this with a single
transorb as shown. You can place the transorb close to your equipment.
Ensure that you use very short wiring here as this will aid the speed at
which your transorb will protect your electronics.
------------------------------------
This is a classic example of a few facts, poorly interpreted
stacked on top of still worse assumptions and supported by
no real engineering data upon which one might make learned
deductions.
First, let me call your attention to the published data for
typical Transorb characteristics which you can download at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semi/15ke.pdf
I'll call your attention first to part number 1N63284/1.5KE33
which is typical of the part cited in the article. Note that
this device has a "Breakdown Voltage" range of
29.7 to 36.3 volts with a test current of 1.0 mA. It has
a "Standoff Voltage" rating of 26.8 volts. A "Maximum
Clamping Voltage" rating of 47.7 Volts at the "Peak Current"
of 31.4 Amps.
Will take the misapplication of a perfectly good part
as follows:
(1) One selects a Transorb based upon the maximum normal
voltage that might be expected in the system plus a little
bit of headroom. For example, the article cites a 33v device
for a 14v system. Go back to the data sheet and find a
part with a Standoff Voltage rating just above that which
we might expect as a function of system dynamics. In our
case, we have ov protection set for 16 volts and we know that
the major energy source capable of pushing the bus above
16 volts for any period of time is the alternator. Assuming
a regulator failure, we don't want all the Transorbs to go
into conduction at some level below that which we expect the
ov system to handle. Soooo . . . I'd look for parts in hte
range of 18-20 volts (DO-160 suggests that any part worthy
of flight in our airplane should withstand 20v for 1 second).
Okay, it looks like a 1N6280/1.5KE24, 24 volt part
is really a better choice than the 33v device cited in
the article . . . assuming a Transorb of any
voltage rating is called for.
(2) Any source of high voltage energy other than the
alternator MUST be an inductive storage device.
Capacitive devices can deliver no more than SYSTEM
VOLTAGE but at very high peak CURRENTS. Inductors
are the mirror-image of capacitors, they can deliver
no more than excitation CURRENT but at higher-than-
system PEAK VOLTAGES. So, let us survey the airplane
for all inductive components.
These fall into a small group: Relay and contactor coils
are the single most inductive devices but their currents
are limited to no more than 5 amps or so for the meanest
one of the bunch - starter contactors. Motors can draw
a lot more current but their inductive characteristics
are not as wicked as one might think due to the special
way motor coils interact internally.
Further, rudimentary studies of energy transfers from
inductive devices as in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spike.pdf
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
suggest that taming the potential for these devices
to generate spikes is (A) a no-brainer and easy
task and (B) the best reason for adding spike suppression
to a contactor is to increase longevity of the controlling
switch as opposed to "protecting" other system
accessories from the ravages of spiking contactors.
To date, I have yet to receive any data from any
source on a repeatable experiment wherein the
author has actually captured a "killer-spike" in
the wild. I've hunted these rare specimens for
years myself. There have been many papers written (many
by folk who sell spike-catcher products) that speak
to the POTENTIAL for disaster . . . but these same
articles never speak to alternative solutions wherein
the spike is best eliminated at the SINGLE source as opposed
to sprinkling protection on ALL potential victims.
There is a DO-160 test that prescribes hitting your
potential victim with a 300 volt spike from a well-charged
capacitor through a prescribed network. Turns out that a
simple, 10uF electrolytic capacitor across the power input
terminals wipes out the spike quite nicely. Even the
"experts" suggest that spikes to be routinely expected
in aircraft DC power distribution systems are very low
energy and easy to deal with using rudimentary and
common design techniques.
This doesn't mean that Transorbs are not useful in
aircraft system and component design . . . I've used
them in dozens of applications . . . every one involved
going to the lab to see if my product can survive
lightning strikes to the aircraft. This is where those
gawd-awful values for energy dissipation and peak
current ratings begin to make real sense. But designing
a system for lightning survivability is simply outside
the realm of operation for 99.99% of light aircraft
missions . . .
There's an interesting observation about virtually all
articles in OBAM community that propose Transorbs:
They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
If someone ever produces data on a repeatable
experiment wherein we can identify and justify
the need for such devices in our airplanes, you
can "bet your sweet bippy" that they'll show up
in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time
folks, please view articles suggesting such devices
with caution . . . let's talk about it first before
you sprinkle your system with flooby-dust.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms |
Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the
USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual
indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to
enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON
the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming
that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like
an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled...
If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting
it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels)
What about resetting the settings while in flight????
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
111.5 Hrs since Aug 03....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my RV8. It seems
that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
have stereo headsets, jacks, music in, and music source...but mono
coming out of the intercom. Is this a problem, or should I just tie the
L and R together at the headset jack and press on?
Also, if anyone has a soft copy of the owners/installation manual for
the AA80-001, could you forward to me? Thanks.
Thanks.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
Not sure if this answers your question but in the **old** days of radio, you
would have a "mono both" option at a stereo station. That way if you had
mono on only ONE channel, you could supply it to both the "left" and "right"
channels. The channels are independent so IF you supplied different signals
to each (stereo) that is what you got out.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
> Bowen
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:17 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo (not really) intercoms
>
>
>
>
> I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my RV8. It seems
> that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
> have stereo headsets, jacks, music in, and music source...but mono
> coming out of the intercom. Is this a problem, or should I just tie the
> L and R together at the headset jack and press on?
>
> Also, if anyone has a soft copy of the owners/installation manual for
> the AA80-001, could you forward to me? Thanks.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
I think I understand what you are saying. But there is only one line
out for each headset jack. I can supply L and R in at the intercom, but
I guess they are combined on the line out. I'll have to connect that
single out to both L and R at the headset jack....I think....and then I
just have mono.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James E. Clark [mailto:james(at)nextupventures.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:02 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Stereo (not really) intercoms
>
>
> -->
>
> Not sure if this answers your question but in the **old**
> days of radio, you would have a "mono both" option at a
> stereo station. That way if you had mono on only ONE channel,
> you could supply it to both the "left" and "right" channels.
> The channels are independent so IF you supplied different
> signals to each (stereo) that is what you got out.
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > Larry Bowen
> > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:17 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo (not really) intercoms
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my
> RV8. It seems
> > that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> > stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of
> that?! I
> > have stereo headsets, jacks, music in, and music source...but mono
> > coming out of the intercom. Is this a problem, or should I
> just tie
> > the L and R together at the headset jack and press on?
> >
> > Also, if anyone has a soft copy of the owners/installation
> manual for
> > the AA80-001, could you forward to me? Thanks.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ===========
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo(at)wanadoo.fr> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
Bob,
In conclusion of you very complete and precise answer ( as you usualy do ...) you
write :
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:33 PM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ?
>If someone ever produces data on a repeatable
>experiment wherein we can identify and justify
>the need for such devices in our airplanes, you
>can "bet your sweet bippy" that they'll show up
>in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time
>folks, please view articles suggesting such devices
>with caution . . . let's talk about it first before
>you sprinkle your system with flooby-dust.
>Bob . . .
I do not have any more a problem to know WHERE to put the TRANSORB to protect 5
or 6 instruments.!
Many thanks,
Michel RIAZUELO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
[snip]
> I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my RV8. It seems
> that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
Keep in mind there are plenty intercoms that do work in stereo throughout if
you want stereo. If you plan to listen to music, it just might be worth the
couple of hundred dollars now rather than wishing you had later. Just a
thought.
James
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSamuelson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | A few simple questions |
Building an RV7A and just starting the electric systems. I am using the Van's
starter solenoid and master relay, following Figure Z13.
Is the Diode included in the starter contactor as shown in Fig Z13?
Is the Diode NOT included in the Master Relay? If not, what item to order
from B&C?
Is the Volage Regulator shown in the upper right of Fig Z13 included in the
SD8 Alternator? If not, what item to order?
Thanks for the help
Roy Samuelson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
Yes, and I am studying my options with the full stereo intercoms.
The whole thing just perturbs me a little bit. The slick marketing guy
sells something with "stereo input", so naive customer (played by yours
truly) buys it only to find out the stereo is downgraded to mono on the
output end. Just seems underhanded to me. What other reason would
there be to do it that way?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> -->
>
>
> [snip]
>
> > I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my
> RV8. It seems
> > that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> > stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
>
>
> Keep in mind there are plenty intercoms that do work in
> stereo throughout if you want stereo. If you plan to listen
> to music, it just might be worth the couple of hundred
> dollars now rather than wishing you had later. Just a thought.
>
> James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Loadmeter Wiring
>
> > do you mean ohmmeter?
>
Yes.
>
> > Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
> >
>
No, I am not confusing the needles. The needle located on the right that
indicates load on the left moves when I put the ohmmeter accross pins 4 and
5. I did this about 6 times because I know it didn't look right. The only
reason I checked it is because I have gone over all of my wiring 4-5 times
and can't find anything wrong. When I installed it as per the wiring
diagram, the voltmeter appears to work but the loadmeter doesn't move.
Could this occur if the instrument is wired backward internally?
Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
Dear Bob,
In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
aircraft wiring systems.
The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing use
of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
quieter environments.
Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the application
of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I had
a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
You criticise the choice of 33V Transorbs. These may have been picked for
28V aircraft, however being too picky about the exact voltage ignores the
rate of rise and the nature of the EMI. Transorbs are not used for DC
overvoltages. In most EMI systems suppressors are "stacked" with some high
frequency, some low frequency, some for surges, some for big pulses of short
duration...etc.
----For any measurement system some EMI will be invisible. Years ago an 8051
used in a control application suddenly stopped working. The problem was
traced to the fact that the chip manufacturer had shrunk the die size. Now
the part was 100X as susceptible to EMI.
>But designing a system for lightning survivability is simply outside the
realm of operation for 99.99% >of light aircraft missions . . .
----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
>They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
>victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
>is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
>Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
>suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
Cheapo insurance.
> If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
identify and justify
> the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet bippy"
that they'll show up
> in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
articles suggesting such devices
> with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
system with flooby-dust.
To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in the
corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I figure
there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just want
to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Means" <rgvelocity(at)lmf.net> |
Just wanted to let everyone know that Trampas sent a 5v-12v converter circuit that
appears to work on the testing board. Thanks.
Do not archive.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack Relays |
Brett, I've used these relays in a circuit to control trim, flaps, and other
things. They've worked well so far. I have 8 of them plugged into the
plastic receptacles that others have mentioned. But I don't believe the
wire spring clips are sturdy enough to stand up to an airplane's vibration
environment.
What I did is mount the receptacles to a fiberglass board, and wire the pins
on the back of the board. I then plugged in the relays, and placed an
identical board on top of the relays. I then ran two long bolts through the
two boards to hold them together, with the relays sandwiched safely between.
I suggest you do something like this to secure your relays.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Shack Relays
>
> What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've
picked up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake control,
etc., and I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw down to the
aircraft or something....
>
> Brett
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Narco Escort II and PMA4000 compatable? |
List:
I apologize if this question is too specific, but I am trying to plan my panel
and I am wondering if I will be able to use a Narco Escort II with a PS Engineering
PMA 4000 intercom.
I am electrically challenged and I have been trying to figure out the installation
manuals for each unit. Will I be able to listen to the Nav side of the Narco
unit, yet transmit on my Icom Com radio? Should I connect the Narco unit
to the PMA 4000 as another com radio, or should I connect it as if it was just
a Nav radio?
All I want the Narco for is to be able to listen to the VOR transmitted on a Nav
frequency at my airport, and also to listen to FSS in my area. Primary navigation
will be via GPS and reading a sectional map.
Thanks in advance folks. I plan to attend a Sportair workshop on wiring and avionics
in January, but would like to get this issue settled before then.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
starting panel
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curtis Jaussi <jaussi(at)direcway.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)direcway.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
>
> I have installed a Garmin 350XL with a PS Engineering CD/Intercom. The
intercom works OK--the Comm works OK to receive. When I trigger the mike,
signal is transmitted out, but the mike goes completely dead. It does not
transmit anything on the comm or the intercom. Any ideas on where to begin
looking?
>
>
> Curtis Jaussi Europa XL tri-gear.
> jaussi(at)direcway.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Narco Escort II question clarification |
List:
I mistakenly said I wanted to listen to the VOR on the Nav side of the Narco II.
I meant to say I want to listen to the AWOS at my local airport that is transmitted
on the VOR.
Sorry about that
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
starting panel
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
I sure do! I just had this EXACT same issue with my bird and was THIS
weekend's project. All working well now. I'm not using the same type of
intercom that you are, but I suspect something similar is happening.
My problem is that the intercom was expecting the PTT circuits to be
connected via the mic jacks themselves independently. In other words, the
intercom was expecting a discreet PTT circuit for the pilot and another for
the co-pilot station. I had rigged a common PTT circuit for both sticks and
fed that into the audio panel with a connection to the intercom. Little did
I know...THAT connection is one-way...the other way - (Intercom TO the audio
panel...then on to the selected radio, not the other way around). Like you,
everything worked well except for xmit - dead mikes.
I went back and wired each mic jack (tip pin) with a PTT key line that goes
to each stick independently. These stick grip PTT switches are wired to
common ground when pressed. Works like a champ, now. (had to adjust the
xmit side-tone volume, but that was all)
This also utilizes the intercom's discreet transmission functions - co-pilot
PTT only xmits from the co-pilot mic and vice-versa. This cuts down
ambient noise...and there is a pilot override as well - but I digress into
intercom functions.
Give me a shout if you need more information or this doesn't make sense.
Good luck,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi(at)direcway.com>
> To:
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
>
>
>
> >
> > I have installed a Garmin 350XL with a PS Engineering CD/Intercom. The
> intercom works OK--the Comm works OK to receive. When I trigger the mike,
> signal is transmitted out, but the mike goes completely dead. It does not
> transmit anything on the comm or the intercom. Any ideas on where to
begin
> looking?
> >
> >
> > Curtis Jaussi Europa XL tri-gear.
> > jaussi(at)direcway.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | KI-204 lighting? |
Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
King KI-204 indicator?
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
Chief has 'em: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=485fe106
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ?
>
>
>
> Dear Bob,
>
> In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
> aircraft wiring systems.
>
> The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
> against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing
use
> of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
> quieter environments.
>
> Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
> that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the
application
> of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
> such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I
had
> a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
> not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
>
> You criticise the choice of 33V Transorbs. These may have been picked for
> 28V aircraft, however being too picky about the exact voltage ignores the
> rate of rise and the nature of the EMI. Transorbs are not used for DC
> overvoltages. In most EMI systems suppressors are "stacked" with some high
> frequency, some low frequency, some for surges, some for big pulses of
short
> duration...etc.
>
> ----For any measurement system some EMI will be invisible. Years ago an
8051
> used in a control application suddenly stopped working. The problem was
> traced to the fact that the chip manufacturer had shrunk the die size. Now
> the part was 100X as susceptible to EMI.
>
> >But designing a system for lightning survivability is simply outside the
> realm of operation for 99.99% >of light aircraft missions . . .
>
> ----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
> year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
> Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
> bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
> radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
>
> >They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
> >victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
> >is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
> >Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
> >suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
>
> An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
> Cheapo insurance.
>
> > If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
> identify and justify
> > the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet
bippy"
> that they'll show up
> > in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
> articles suggesting such devices
> > with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
> system with flooby-dust.
>
> To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
> too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
>
> A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in
the
> corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I
figure
> there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just
want
> to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Loadmeter Wiring
>
>
>
> >
> > > do you mean ohmmeter?
> >
> Yes.
> >
> > > Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
> > >
> > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
> > >
> >
> No, I am not confusing the needles. The needle located on the right that
> indicates load on the left moves when I put the ohmmeter accross pins 4 and
>5. I did this about 6 times because I know it didn't look right. The only
> reason I checked it is because I have gone over all of my wiring 4-5 times
> and can't find anything wrong. When I installed it as per the wiring
> diagram, the voltmeter appears to work but the loadmeter doesn't move.
>Could this occur if the instrument is wired backward internally?
Hmmmm . . . I'm mystified. They are entirely different instruments.
The voltmeter has a resistance of about 500 ohms and a full scale
current of 250 microamps. The loadmeter side has a resistance of about
25 ohms and a 2 milliampere full scale current so that it reads a 50mv
shunt. If your voltmeter is reading correctly, then it's wired right
and whatever pins are left over have to be loadmeter pins.
You can't hurt anything by reversing them.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A few simple questions |
>
>Building an RV7A and just starting the electric systems. I am using the Van's
>starter solenoid and master relay, following Figure Z13.
>
>Is the Diode included in the starter contactor as shown in Fig Z13?
The S702-1 contactor illustrated at:
http://www.bandc.biz/S702Wire.jpg
comes with diode installed internally as described
on:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?11X358218
>Is the Diode NOT included in the Master Relay? If not, what item to order
>from B&C?
The S701-1 master contactor comes as shown in B&C's
catalog with diode and jumper installed. See:
http://www.bandc.biz/S701-1.html
>Is the Volage Regulator shown in the upper right of Fig Z13 included in the
>SD8 Alternator? If not, what item to order?
Yes, the SD-8 comes with rectifier/regulator. See:
http://www.bandc.biz/SD8desc.html
for a complete list of downloadable support documents
on the SD-8
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
>
>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
>aircraft wiring systems.
>
>The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
>against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing use
>of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
>quieter environments.
>Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
>that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the application
>of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
>such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I had
>a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
>not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
Show me the repeatable experiment wherein you have captured
a transient event worthy of considering inclusion of Transorbs
for the purpose they were offered in the article cited.
I've been all over the power distribution systems in all manner
of vehicles including C-150's through Hawker Horizons . . . if
my gizmo passes DO-160 testing for everything but lightning,
then Transorbs have been shown to be unnecessary.
Now, had the article been talking about taking lightning strikes,
then Transorbs ARE often useful . . . but it takes more consideration
than simply tying them across the incoming power lines and hoping
one has purchased the right "insurance" policy.
>----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
>year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
>Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
>bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
>radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
If one is buying "insurance" against the effects of
a lightning strike on or near our airplanes, then
a sprinkling of Transorbs as described in the article
is but one of many concerns. Let us not offer these as
a useful thing to do in this area of concern unless
we address ALL the issues. Would you counsel adding
a hot patch to a windshield without also advising boots
and prop heaters?
> >They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
> >victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
> >is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
> >Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
> >suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
>
>An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
>Cheapo insurance.
>
> > If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
>identify and justify
> > the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet bippy"
>that they'll show up
> > in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
>articles suggesting such devices
> > with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
>system with flooby-dust.
>
> To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
>too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
I won't recommend "insurance" for which there is no
documented risk . . . I CAN document a risk for certain
avionics to go brain-dead when flying within a mile of
high-power FM broadcast and TV station towers. I've seen
it happen and repeated the experiment for others. I fixed
the problem with a couple of chokes and capacitors on a pair
of data lines. The risk of RF intrusion close to broadcast
stations is many times greater than that of microsecond wide,
500 microjoule "spikes" that disappear when you load
them with a 10uF capacitor. Now, should I err on the side
of caution and start recommending "insurance" in the
form of capacitors and chokes on ALL low power signal lines
of every device? It it a valid position to worry about every
supplier's ability to deliver product that will thrive in
its intended operating environment?
There's no need to err . . . these systems are not that
complicated. If we're half the engineers we claim to be,
we should KNOW which devices are antagonists are and how wicked
they are . . . and then run 'em to ground.
>A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in the
>corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I figure
>there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just want
>to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
Nice anecdotal information . . . but I'm still waiting for
the data. I've looked for these gremlins in many a dark
hole and they simply haven't emerged. Before lightning
strike requirements came along, we had the 40v surge
and 300 volt spike in 14V systems and 80v/600v requirements
in 28V systems. Both easily managed before Transorbs
even existed. Today, they're even easier to manage, still
without Transorbs.
Further, the stress requirements assumed that some poorly
designed antagonist would find its way onto the airplane.
Publishing articles like the one Michael cited has to be filed
under "Chicken Little" stories . . . much worry and no data.
I got a call from a builder about 12 years ago who told
me that he'd wired his entire electrical system with shielded
wire. He cited a list of filters he'd installed on various
accessories. After the recitation, he asked, "What else do
I need?" I had listened to his recitation in amazement
and responded to his question with, "Gee, I can't imagine.
What kind of noise problem do you have?" He said "Oh, I don't
have a problem . . .in fact, I haven't flown the airplane yet."
He too had bought into someone's notion of "insurance"
based on a complete lack of understanding. As engineers
and teachers, we have a duty to do better in the understanding
department. Let us offer defenses against known antagonists,
not "insurance" against imagined ones.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BAKEROCB(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ray Allen Stick Grips |
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
<>
12/14/2003
Hello Gilles, "...skip....bare wire or connections........ in the stick
heads..skip..." There is your answer right there.
The stick grip in question was the G1 / G101 which has a single PTT button in
the center of the top of the grip. The professional who wired my panel also
wired the stick grips. He soldered the two wires in that grip to the two
exposed metal switch connectors on the bottom of the grip head. When those two
bare
connectors came in contact with the top of the metal tubular control stick a
direct short was created and the result was a constant keying of the radio
transmitter.
My solution was to install a small circular plastic disc that covered the top
of the metal control stick. A small slit in this disc allowed the wires to
pass through, but prevented contact between the switch connectors and the top of
the metal control stick.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
>
>Chief has 'em: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=485fe106
So does Digikey. Depending on how much "insurance" one wants
to buy, they carry devices rated up through 5,000 watts at:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/pdf/T033/0584-0587.pdf
If someone wants some 15,000 watt devices, I've got a few
left over from another program. I think these are 18v devices . . .
suited for use in 14V systems.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340 installation
manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web site.
Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and download
it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually, I
know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: KI-204 lighting? |
>
>Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
>King KI-204 indicator?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KI203-204.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "'Scott Richardson'" <scott_m_richardson(at)sbcglobal.net> |
, ,
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
There were a couple Garmin manuals that I was looking for recently that
were not included on their site (installation for GNC-300XL and GTX-327)
and I just filled out their tech request and they emailed them both to
me in PDF form within an hour or so - no questions asked. They've
always been quite helpful - I just told them that I was building an
experimental and intended to purchase their product. The form is at:
http://www.garmin.com/contactUs/techSupport.jsp
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A(at)yahoogroups.com;
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
-->
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340
installation manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the
Garmin web site. Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always
go back and download it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually,
I know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
What is going on at Garmin? I sent them two emails over the last month
asking questions concerning the CNX-80 and what their intentions are for
supporting it and its buyers. Well if there lack of response is the
answer, I think I will be looking for an alternative for my COM,
Nav,CPS,and moving map. Perhaps they have gobbled up their only real
competitor (UPSAT)and feel they now have a monopoly on the multifunction
display avionics. I say we ignore them for a while, let them rethink
the importance of customer satisfaction.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A(at)yahoogroups.com;
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340
installation
manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web
site.
Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and
download
it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually,
I
know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
This might not have anything to do with your question, but the new website
for the UPS part of Garmin is garminat.com. I would expect that unless and
until the two companies are totally integrated, this would be the place to
go for formerly UPS model information.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
What is going on at Garmin? I sent them two emails over the last month
asking questions concerning the CNX-80 and what their intentions are for
supporting it and its buyers. Well if there lack of response is the
answer, I think I will be looking for an alternative for my COM,
Nav,CPS,and moving map. Perhaps they have gobbled up their only real
competitor (UPSAT)and feel they now have a monopoly on the multifunction
display avionics. I say we ignore them for a while, let them rethink
the importance of customer satisfaction.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A(at)yahoogroups.com;
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340
installation
manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web
site.
Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and
download
it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually,
I
know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
Yes I know that because when you try the old UPSAT site, Garmin gives
you the replacement site.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Watson
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
This might not have anything to do with your question, but the new
website
for the UPS part of Garmin is garminat.com. I would expect that unless
and
until the two companies are totally integrated, this would be the place
to
go for formerly UPS model information.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Stone
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
What is going on at Garmin? I sent them two emails over the last month
asking questions concerning the CNX-80 and what their intentions are for
supporting it and its buyers. Well if there lack of response is the
answer, I think I will be looking for an alternative for my COM,
Nav,CPS,and moving map. Perhaps they have gobbled up their only real
competitor (UPSAT)and feel they now have a monopoly on the multifunction
display avionics. I say we ignore them for a while, let them rethink
the importance of customer satisfaction.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A(at)yahoogroups.com;
SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340
installation
manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web
site.
Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and
download
it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually,
I
know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
=
==
==
==
==
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
Hmmm.
Maybe they missed it. What address did you use? I wouldn't write them off so
soon.
I sent them a series of questions and did in fact get answers ... quickly.
My questions went out Sunday morning and by Monday afternoon I had answers.
Not bad in my book. Also, the answers were basically consistent with what I
thought they **should** and would do. My biggest problem is that I did not
see the SL70(R) in the list of current products found on their website.
Might have just been my (or even their) oversight.
I have posted the reply to my original questions below.
James
p.s. I had asked about the CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL30/SL15 combination. The
three "systems" referenced in the reply, I believe are CNX80/MX20/SL30
============================================================================
====================
James,
I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the forseeable
future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway into a
flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case of
the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and they
will only get better with time.
The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and SL60
but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
come.
I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
We value your business and your feedback.
GARMIN AT, Inc.
Aviation Account Representative
Bill Lehmanowsky
800.525.6726 Toll Free
503.391.3396 direct
503.391.3947 fax
e-mail: bill.lehmanowsky(at)garmin.com
[SNIP]
>
>
>
> What is going on at Garmin? I sent them two emails over the last month
> asking questions concerning the CNX-80 and what their intentions are for
> supporting it and its buyers. Well if there lack of response is the
> answer, I think I will be looking for an alternative for my COM,
> Nav,CPS,and moving map. Perhaps they have gobbled up their only real
> competitor (UPSAT)and feel they now have a monopoly on the multifunction
> display avionics. I say we ignore them for a while, let them rethink
> the importance of customer satisfaction.
> Jim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Stone" <jrstone(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
Thanks James,
Your question was identical to mine, perhaps they got confused. Thanks
for taking the time to forward their response.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
E. Clark
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
Hmmm.
Maybe they missed it. What address did you use? I wouldn't write them
off so
soon.
I sent them a series of questions and did in fact get answers ...
quickly.
My questions went out Sunday morning and by Monday afternoon I had
answers.
Not bad in my book. Also, the answers were basically consistent with
what I
thought they **should** and would do. My biggest problem is that I did
not
see the SL70(R) in the list of current products found on their website.
Might have just been my (or even their) oversight.
I have posted the reply to my original questions below.
James
p.s. I had asked about the CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL30/SL15 combination. The
three "systems" referenced in the reply, I believe are CNX80/MX20/SL30
========================================================================
====
====================
James,
I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the
forseeable
future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway
into a
flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case
of
the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and
they
will only get better with time.
The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and
SL60
but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
come.
I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
We value your business and your feedback.
GARMIN AT, Inc.
Aviation Account Representative
Bill Lehmanowsky
800.525.6726 Toll Free
503.391.3396 direct
503.391.3947 fax
e-mail: bill.lehmanowsky(at)garmin.com
[SNIP]
>
>
>
> What is going on at Garmin? I sent them two emails over the last
month
> asking questions concerning the CNX-80 and what their intentions are
for
> supporting it and its buyers. Well if there lack of response is the
> answer, I think I will be looking for an alternative for my COM,
> Nav,CPS,and moving map. Perhaps they have gobbled up their only real
> competitor (UPSAT)and feel they now have a monopoly on the
multifunction
> display avionics. I say we ignore them for a while, let them rethink
> the importance of customer satisfaction.
> Jim
>
>
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms |
Fred,
My SL-30 was wired with a switch to provide the ground for the intercom
function. With the switch off, there is no intercom function but the radio
works fine.
Squelch is adjustable in flight for each of two headsets. Volume can
either be set to automatic (the radio volume knob also adjusts the intercom
volume) or it can be set as a percentage of the volume of the radio
(presumably so radio traffic could "override" talking to your copilot).
Volume is set in the maintenance mode, I believe.
I've found that the squelch needs to be adjusted for each headset. Also,
my SL-30 doesn't seem to like my buddy's Lightspeed ANR headseet very much.
The result is far more annoying than with any other headset I've tried.
Bottom line: it's an adequate intercom but if you've got the panel space
and money I'd recommend you get a more traditional intercom.
Greg
Cozy N76PJ
----------------------------------------------
Original Message
From: "Fred Stucklen"<wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: USPAT/GarminAT Built-in Intercoms
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:06:11 -0500
>
> Has anybody tried to utilize the built-in intercom in one of the
>USPAT/GarminAT radios (SL-40, SL-30, etc..) The installation manual
>indicates that an input on one of the connectors has to be grounded "to
>enable the intercom function". I'm interpreting this to be turning ON
>the intercom for use, not opening up the audio through it. I'm assuming
>that the internal VOX and Squelch settings will allow it to be used like
>an ordinary intercom, once it is enabled...
> If this is indeed the way it works, has anybody had problems setting
>it up to work correctly (i.e., setting the squelch and audio levels)
>What about resetting the settings while in flight????
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>111.5 Hrs since Aug 03....
>
>
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
Looking for friendships,romance and more?
http://www.MyOwnFriends.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henrique Castro" <henriquerv9(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi all,
I am building an RV9A and starting wiring the avionics. I know this is maybe a
dummy question, but i would like to know what is the best wire diameter to use
and also if its necessary to be shielded.
If anyone help me asap, i would appreciate that
Regards
Henrique Castro
Henriquerv9(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Berg" <wfberg(at)msn.com> |
20 AWG Teflon coated stranded for the most part, some wires must be shielded (audio
and wires going to headset jacks).
Proper grounding is critical.
----- Original Message -----
From: Henrique Castro
Subject: AeroElectric-List: wire specs
Hi all,
I am building an RV9A and starting wiring the avionics. I know this is maybe a
dummy question, but i would like to know what is the best wire diameter to use
and also if its necessary to be shielded.
If anyone help me asap, i would appreciate that
Regards
Henrique Castro
Henriquerv9(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am building an RV9A and starting wiring the avionics. I know this is
>maybe a dummy question, but i would like to know what is the best wire
>diameter to use and also if its necessary to be shielded.
>
>If anyone help me asap, i would appreciate that
>
>Regards
Tefzel (Mil-W-22759 or equal) is the insulation of choice
these days . . . not only for avionics but ALL wires in the
airplane. Aircraft Spruce at:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com
and
B&C Specialty Products at:
http://www.bandc.biz
are two good sources. There are others.
Check the installation manuals for your installed
devices. Unless called out otherwise, 22AWG is fine.
95+ percent of avionics wiring can be 22AWG . . .
it's the rare power supply wire that will be called
out on an installation drawing as 20AWG or in very
rare cases, 18AWG.
Both suppliers cited have shielded wire. Again,
FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS for shielding with particular
attention to how the shields are connected at each
end of the wire.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sower <canarder(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
I'm looking for a throwaway airspeed indicator. I'm trying to get my cooling as
optimized as
I can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop from the plenum
below
the engine to the exit above the engine. It doesn't have to be all that accurate,
but since
I'll hardly be using it after this problem is solved, it has to be VERY affordable.
Anyone have an old beat up no account ASI? .... Jim S.
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | No Electric Starter/System Ques |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob and All.
I have been pushing these questions around in my head making myself crazy. I
have read the Connection at least once (sections several times). I have been
into the archives. Just for the record, there are 474 postings containing
the words "Battery Bus". I still have questions.
SO I guess it's time to get clarification. I will try and organize it so
that answers can be inserted into the text.
BACKGROUND
Our Moose with the M-14 radial engine uses an air start system and therefore
has no electric starter and no starter contactor. We are setting up the all
electric airplane on a budget using Z-13 as our reference. Z-13 accounts for
the use of a starter, part of my problem. We are using a Skytronics 50 amp
main alternator with their new voltage regulator which incorporates a
voltage protector. A SD-8 is our aux alternator.
BATTERY
We are trying to decide on amp hour rating. In the RG Odessey line we see
12 ah PC545 @ 12 Lbs. 16 ah PC625 @ 13 Lbs. and the 16 ah PC680 @ 15 Lbs.
*Without the need for electric start and having two alternators are we
foolish to
go larger than 12 ah.?
HEAVY WIRES
The battery will be located under the co-pilots seat along with the battery
contactor.
I had anticipated using #4 wire to run my battery ground to the firewall and
to run from the battery contactor to the main bus. The aircraft wire I
purchased is pretty stiff (should have gotten welding cable) The 50 amp
alternator feed on the Skytronics installation schematic shows #6 if bundled
and #8 if in free air. I was planning on the purchase of #6 welding cable.
(and using an anl-60 already purchased)
? Do I need #4 wire from the battery given no starting circuit ? Would the
#6 FLEXIBLE welding
cable do the job? #8 ?
HEAVY WIRE FEEDS, BATTERY AND CONTACTOR
#4 or as determined above.
1. The battery negative cable goes directly to the firewall G2.
2. The battery positive cable goes a short distance to the nearby
contactor's bat terminal.
3. The output cable of the battery contactor goes to the Main Bus Fuse Block
located up under the
instrument panel.
? Is it correct that this cable is to be placed out of harms way and is
not protected with i.e. large fuse or anl?
?Is there any problem with this cable running to the Main Bus past the back
of the radio stack?
MAIN ALTERNATOR OUTPUT
1. ? Without a starter contactor will the output of the main 50 amp
alternator go to the
60-anl on the firewall and then to the post of the Main Bus Fuse
Block?
LOCATION OF THE BATTERY BUS
After spending hours in the archives (slow learner) I understand that the
Battery Bus belongs next to the Battery. At the moment I see only the clock,
CD player keep alive, and possibly s small emergency light on the Bat Bus.
We are talking mA's without the emergency light. The Battery Bus (BB) will
feed the E-Bus which will be supported by the SD-8 alt. Supported by the
SD-8, the E-Bus could have a continuous load of 7-10 amps and short loads to
say 15 amps. This results in an fused extended feeder carrying more than the
recommended 5-7 amps. I read that in these cases a relay, say a S704-1, can
be used like a light contactor to supply the E-Buss from the BB, Links to a
schematic were given. The link did not work for me.
? Does my description above work?
Is there a link to a schematic of the relay installation in this
situation that is current?
? In the above layout can the SD-8's output feed the system using #12 wire
via the BB with,
say, a 15 amp fuse instead of using a fuselink connected to the Bat side
of the contactor?
A MORTAL SIN BUT BARE WITH ME
? Let's say it is determined that the total BB and E-Bus continuous loads
are in the order
of 5-7 amps and the extended feeder to the remote mounted BB was
protected at the battery
with a 5-7 amp FUSE. Would such an installation be sinful?
? In the above scenario would the return feed from the BB to the battery
with its 5-7 amp fuse
preclude bringing the SD-8 output into the system via the remote BB?
Thanks in advance for your time and patience, your help is invaluable.
Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Murphy Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/Beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome,
NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KI-204 lighting? |
OK, as an entry into the "for what it's worth" or "rest of the story"
category:
As I have found with all my used King stuff, the pinouts and/or an install
manual are not all the data you need to make things work. In this case,
indeed pin D is used for +14v lighting input. BUT...what they DON'T tell
you is that pins B and E have to be jumpered....AND they have to be taken to
a separate aircraft ground. Geez....
Now the freak'n thing works. ;-)
-James
> >Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
> >King KI-204 indicator?
>
> See:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KI203-204.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
Jim Sower wrote:-
> I'm trying to get my cooling as optimized as
> can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop
from the plenum below
the engine to the exit above the engine.
Jim,
How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
(could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
assistance.
http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281
in Oz
About to install third and final window.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst(at)taroom.qld.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
Jim Sower wrote:-
> I'm trying to get my cooling as optimized as
I can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop
from the plenum below
the engine to the exit above the engine.
Jim,
My apologies. The reference I made to "this list" was incorrect.
The manometer discussion was held on the Europa List.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281
in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob(at)flyboybob.com> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
Jim Sower Wrote:
I'm looking for a throwaway airspeed indicator. I'm trying to get my
cooling as optimized as
I can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop from
the plenum below
the engine to the exit above the engine.
Jim,
How about a transfer valve of some type? You could switch your airspeed
from pitot/static to cowl-plenum/cowl-exit. That way you could always test
your cowl seals in the future by flipping the valve to the "Alternate
pitot/static" position. Due to the heat in the engine the "Alternate
pitot/static source would not be likely to ice up in the winter. You could
mark the valve "normal pitot/static" and "heated pitot/static". Why do
something that is temporary when cooling is something that often
deteriorates over time. If you use a valve you can make sure that your
improvements do not change over time.
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitchell M. Berger" <mberger(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | JPI interference... |
I recently installed a JPI 700 EDM with EGT CHT OIL TEMP OAT and Voltage. It works
fine; however when I printed out data downloaded from the data port and displayed
it on their EZPlot software there appeared to be some interference with
the EGT readings, ie the graph lines were 'jagged' indicating some kind of buzzing.
The CHT readouts were normally displayed. I called JPI and sent them the
data. They said it probably isn't a poor ground because the CHT's would have
been effected also.
Has anybody experienced this and/or have any suggestions? The wires are routed
separately from the ignition leads and are not bundled with them. If anyone wants
to check the display data let me know and I'll email it. You'll need the EZPlot
software though, I believe.
Best,
Mitch Berger
Mitchell M. Berger, Esq
Berger Law Offices, LLC
80 Phoenix Avenue
Suite 201
Waterbury, CT 06702
203 597-9877
203 206-0383 (cell)
203 756-4789 (fax)
509 351-7900 (fax computer)
mberger(at)snet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William" <wschertz(at)ispwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
Why not use a water manometer?
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sower" <canarder(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
>
> I'm looking for a throwaway airspeed indicator. I'm trying to get my
cooling as optimized as
> I can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop from
the plenum below
> the engine to the exit above the engine. It doesn't have to be all that
accurate, but since
> I'll hardly be using it after this problem is solved, it has to be VERY
affordable.
> Anyone have an old beat up no account ASI? .... Jim S.
> --
> Jim Sower
> Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
> Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Casey" <glcasey(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | airspeed indicator |
<>
I just bought one off E-bay for $7 - $1 for the indicator and $6 for
shipping. It took 3 or 4 tries as some would get priced up during the last
few seconds I just kept putting in bids of about $15 until there was one
that everyone ignored. Don't know if it is accurate, but the needle moves
when I blow in it. I'm hoping it's close enough and I intend to do the same
thing you have planned - I hope you share the results of the testing.
Gary Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OV Protection Module |
Bob,
Thanks for the OV module. I received the new one, put it in and same thing
happened - blew the fuse. I think I narrowed it down to when I would
transmit on the radio. I then replaced the voltage regulator and it has now
worked for about 6 hours, so I feel it is fixed.
thanks,
Rhett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV Protection Module
>
>
>Bob,
>
> I have a Glastar and use your OV Module. The plane has been flying since
98
>and has approx 800 hours on it. Last year the OV Module went out and it
>appears to have gone out again. About 150 hours on the new one you sent me.
>
> It keeps tripping and blowing the fuse. This occurred three times today.
I
>have the Vision system which allows me to see the high and low voltages for
>the flight. Each time the high voltage was 14.2 volts. I am unsure of the
>sampling rate of the vision, but if there are voltage spikes they are
faster
>then the vision can catch and it had three tries.
>
> From what I have seen, this seems very unusual......any ideas....or am I
>just getting bad modules?
Refresh my memory. When it "went out" the first time, did you send it
to me for modification or did I send you a new one. When you say "fuse"
do you mean circuit breaker? The Vision Micro will not "see" the kind
of transient usually common to nuisance tipping an crowbar ov module.
If the first one was "bad" and sent back to me for mod, I would have
brought it up to date with current production. What equipment was
ON while the OV module was tripping? Was this configuration much
different than previous flight activity? Would you be willing to try
an experiment to see if we can isolate any potential antagonist
systems?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ECI OAT Reads High. |
I keep having an error in my Electronics International OAT gauge, reading
high in flight. On the ground, engine off, it reads fine.
The probe sticks through the fusealge with the interior side being inside the
cabin behind the firewall. Its positioned on the side of the fuselage, not
near exhaust etc. Checked all the connections. Any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
> I'm looking for a throwaway airspeed indicator. I'm trying
> to get my cooling as optimized as I can, and need some
> "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop from the
> plenum below the engine to the exit above the engine. It
> doesn't have to be all that accurate, but since I'll hardly
> be using it after this problem is solved, it has to be VERY
> affordable. Anyone have an old beat up no account ASI? .... Jim S.
> --
> Jim Sower
> Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
> Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
Jim, I did precisely what you are contemplating with my RV6A, only I
used a simple manometer that I fashioned with some pvc tubing. I put
valves in the lines so that I could measure pressure (compared to cabin
static) both above and below the engine. Alternatively, I could also
move the little valves until I simply got pressure differential across
the engine. I don't have any pictures of this setup, but the
interesting thing is how little I was able to effect the pressures with
the various mods I did. Some pictures of these mods are available at
http://www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson/coolingmods.htm, although they
obviously don't apply to a Long-EZ.
This was discussed on the RV list about a year ago, if you search for my
name and cooling, you might get a few hits.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 424 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeed indicator |
>
><cooling as
>optimized as
>I can, and need some "acceptably reliable" data on the pressure drop from
>the plenum
>below
>the engine to the exit above the engine. It doesn't have to be all that
>accurate,
>but since
>I'll hardly be using it after this problem is solved, it has to be VERY
>affordable.
>Anyone have an old beat up no account ASI? .... Jim S.>>
>
>I just bought one off E-bay for $7 - $1 for the indicator and $6 for
>shipping. It took 3 or 4 tries as some would get priced up during the last
>few seconds I just kept putting in bids of about $15 until there was one
>that everyone ignored. Don't know if it is accurate, but the needle moves
>when I blow in it. I'm hoping it's close enough and I intend to do the same
>thing you have planned - I hope you share the results of the testing.
>
>Gary Casey
How about a U-tube, water manometer? You can fit it with a pair
of hoses that can be terminated in various places under the cowl
to measure very small pressure differentials. In fact, you can make
the manometer and sense tubes all from the same length of material.
I've fabricated these from aquarium air line with the "u" wrapped
around the end of a yardstick - or piece of yardstick when you
need a short one. Put enough water in colored with food coloring
to give you two columns about equal to max anticipated pressure
differential (This will give you 2x headroom . . . while one
column goes up 1", the other goes down 1" making pressure
delta 2").
Install with clamp on one of the sense tubes and leave clamp closed
until you're ready to make a measurement. Open slowly to make sure
you've not tapped into a very high delta-p situation that's going
to blow the water clear out of the system. Keep clamp closed except
when taking a reading.
This $5 instrument is very sensitive and will get you good
data wherein "calibration" is not an issue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ECI OAT Reads High. |
| From: | Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com> |
Check the intersection of the cowl and side skin ahead of the probe.
There's a good chance warm air from under the cowl is leaking out and
impinging on your probe.
Joel Harding
On Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003, at 08:11 America/Denver, N27160(at)aol.com
wrote:
>
> I keep having an error in my Electronics International OAT gauge,
> reading
> high in flight. On the ground, engine off, it reads fine.
> The probe sticks through the fusealge with the interior side being
> inside the
> cabin behind the firewall. Its positioned on the side of the
> fuselage, not
> near exhaust etc. Checked all the connections. Any ideas?
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sower <canarder(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
I've been there. Turned out messy and awkward for me. ASI is more accurate (better
granularity). I think I've got a line on a real cheap one now.
Jim S.
Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> Jim,
>
> How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
> cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
> (could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
> to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
>
> Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
> assistance.
>
> http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
>
> Regards
> Kingsley Hurst
> Europa Mono Classic 281
> in Oz
> About to install third and final window.--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sower <canarder(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
I think a $10 ASI is probably a better idea than compromising my pitot static system.
I would
prefer even a manometer to screwing with the pitot static system.
> How about a transfer valve of some type? You could switch your airspeed
> from pitot/static to cowl-plenum/cowl-exit. That way you could always test
> your cowl seals in the future by flipping the valve to the "Alternate
> pitot/static" position. Due to the heat in the engine the "Alternate
> pitot/static source would not be likely to ice up in the winter. You could
> mark the valve "normal pitot/static" and "heated pitot/static". Why do
> something that is temporary when cooling is something that often
> deteriorates over time. If you use a valve you can make sure that your
> improvements do not change over time.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lee
> ______________________________
> N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
> 91% done only 51% to go!
> Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
> mailto:bob(at)flyboybob.com
> http://flyboybob.com
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" ,
"Lancair Mailing List" ,
"Ralph E. Capen" , "Bob G" ,
"Timothy Ong" ,
"Jeffrey Peterson" , ,
"Carl Cadwell" , "Denny" ,
"craig blitzer" ,
"Ron Laughlin" , ,
"Steve Reames" ,
"Paul McAllister" , ,
"Bruce Gray"
| Subject: | Re: LED taillight fir the A555 whelen |
You might be interested in my LED tail light available in January. See
attached.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones(at)charter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My 100th anniversary Commemorative flight |
| From: | royt.or(at)netzero.com |
Details of my flight to celebrate the 100th anniversary of powered flight. (Cross
posted to Zenith list and Aeroelctric-list)
and planned to stay in the pattern for 20 or 30 minutes to celebrate the 100th
anniversary of power flight and the efforts of the original homebuilders.
During my first trip around the pattern, the field was declared IFR, and I was
given special VFR permission to land. (Just one end of the field was fogged in,
I could see fine.) SO, after landing I asked permission to do a high speed
speed, floated the Zodiac a few feet off the ground for 10 to 15 seconds (during
which time the tower reminded me the field was IFR and I WAS NOT to be
airborne) and settled back to the runway. Not what I planned, but as close to
a perfect match of the flight 100 years ago as I could possibly imagine.
It was great.
Regards,
Roy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | MicroAir transponder wiriing harness problem |
Hi Bob,
I ordered and received a wiring harness from you a few months back. Just now getting
around to installing the Micro Air xpdr and Rocky Mtn Micro Encoder. Problems
are as follows:
1) The 15 pin connector on the harness and the back of the Micro Encoder are both
female. Besides not very exciting to watch there was no consumation of this
type of union.
2) It appears that the pin locations are also incompatible. Really a troubled relationship.
If you need them, I will send the pin callouts for a Micro Encoder.
What next?
Rick Fogerson
RV3 wiring
Boise, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Braly <gwbraly(at)gami.com> |
| Subject: | Airspeed Indicator |
Jim,
The ASI is OK. The water works but it is a bit messy and difficult.
You should not expect to see more than about 3" to 8" of water column
difference.
An ASI reads about 200 knots at 2 PSI differential. Note the difference in
units!!!
HOWEVER... you will not get meaningfully useful readings unless you install
piccolo tubes on both the input and the reference (static) side of the
tubing that you run to the ASI.
There are some cheap low pressure differential pressure transducers that
will work nicely and are calibrated in the 0-10 or 0-15" H2O span.
You can read the output with a volt meter.
Regards, George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Sower
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
I've been there. Turned out messy and awkward for me. ASI is more accurate
(better
granularity). I think I've got a line on a real cheap one now.
Jim S.
Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> Jim,
>
> How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
> cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
> (could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
> to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
>
> Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
> assistance.
>
> http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
>
> Regards
> Kingsley Hurst
> Europa Mono Classic 281
> in Oz
> About to install third and final window.--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED taillight for the A555 whelen |
Yeah yeah yeah sorry....okay. Try
www.periheliondesign.com/led555taillightflyer.pdf
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> problem |
| Subject: | Re: MicroAir transponder wiriing harness |
problem
problem
>
>Hi Bob,
>I ordered and received a wiring harness from you a few months back. Just
>now getting around to installing the Micro Air xpdr and Rocky Mtn Micro
>Encoder. Problems are as follows:
>
>1) The 15 pin connector on the harness and the back of the Micro Encoder
>are both female. Besides not very exciting to watch there was no
>consumation of this type of union.
>
>2) It appears that the pin locations are also incompatible. Really a
>troubled relationship. If you need them, I will send the pin callouts for
>a Micro Encoder.
Hmmm . . . did we talk about this when you ordered your harness?
I've never had a pinout diagram for Rocky Mountain's products
in house . . . so if we offered you a plug-n-play harness at the
time, I had to have been out in left field somewhere.
If you have pinout data for the encoder and want to sent your
harness back, I'll install the proper plug.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | OV Protection Module |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> Thanks for the OV module. I received the new one, put it in and same thing
>happened - blew the fuse. I think I narrowed it down to when I would
>transmit on the radio. I then replaced the voltage regulator and it has now
>worked for about 6 hours, so I feel it is fixed.
Pleased to hear that. As we discussed in our telephone conversation
this morning, I'd still like to get your old OV module back. You can
leave the new one in place with my compliments.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MOV's/Transorbs? |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb pcez.com> |
Bob, In the mid 90's I wired my airplane (RV) master/starter contactors
with those MOV's you recommended then. For many years since then you have
called out the spike catcher diodes. Do I need to change for better
physics? Do the MOV's have a useful life caused by the inductive spikes
that they pass? What would you do?
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AI Nut" <ainut(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ECI OAT Reads High. |
Maybe it's in an engine heat stream?
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: <N27160(at)aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ECI OAT Reads High.
>
> I keep having an error in my Electronics International OAT gauge, reading
> high in flight. On the ground, engine off, it reads fine.
> The probe sticks through the fusealge with the interior side being inside
the
> cabin behind the firewall. Its positioned on the side of the fuselage,
not
> near exhaust etc. Checked all the connections. Any ideas?
>
>
> _-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical Design Question |
Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with the back feed
diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC. My normal ESS running
load will be just over 8 amps, the published max loads for these items is just
over 18, but because the manufacturers recommend much larger breakers for thier
equipment (like the blue mountain EFIS), the breaker protected max load for
the line will be almost 40A (15 for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav,
xponder, intercomm, and the left electronic ignition). I feel like I should parallel
two of these diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also feels
like overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something like this?
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sower <canarder(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
I'm told that if I put the pitot port to the plenum and the static port above
the engine I can expect about 120 KIAS delta which is rumored to be the
equivalent of about 4" H2O. I'll do the math before I do any testing to
determine what to look for by way of IAS.
First, I'll need to look up SL, std day rho .... Jim S.
George Braly wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> The ASI is OK. The water works but it is a bit messy and difficult.
>
> You should not expect to see more than about 3" to 8" of water column
> difference.
>
> An ASI reads about 200 knots at 2 PSI differential. Note the difference in
> units!!!
>
> HOWEVER... you will not get meaningfully useful readings unless you install
> piccolo tubes on both the input and the reference (static) side of the
> tubing that you run to the ASI.
>
> There are some cheap low pressure differential pressure transducers that
> will work nicely and are calibrated in the 0-10 or 0-15" H2O span.
>
> You can read the output with a volt meter.
>
> Regards, George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> Sower
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
>
>
>
> I've been there. Turned out messy and awkward for me. ASI is more accurate
> (better
> granularity). I think I've got a line on a real cheap one now.
> Jim S.
>
> Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
> > cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
> > (could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
> > to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
> >
> > Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
> > assistance.
> >
> > http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
> >
> > Regards
> > Kingsley Hurst
> > Europa Mono Classic 281
> > in Oz
> > About to install third and final window.--
>
> Jim Sower
> Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
> Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Question |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I have a couple of thoughts relating....
Vendors specify oversized circuit protection because it's
easy, and reduces the chances of nuisance tripping. Some components may
demand significant inrush turn on current.
The worst case current draw through the diode could be
found if all your endurance bus components were turned on
at the same instant.. Is this likely to happen?
Further, the inrush currents are transient, not continuous. Diodes
will hanle momentary over spec current (within reason). The limits
are largely thermal issues. It takes some amount of time to build
up heat.
Finally, adding diodes in parallel may not improve the thermal
side of things, unless the components are matched, ideally from
the same production lot. The current - voltage relationship for two
diodes, especially unmatched, is never exactly the same. What
ends up happening is that the turn-on voltage for one diode is
always a little bit less than the other and so one diode ends up
carrying most of the load. If you need more continuous current
capability, you need to get a diode that is spec'ed for more load.
Regards,
Matt Prather
VEZE N34RD
>
>
> Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
>
> I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with the
> back feed diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC. My
> normal ESS running load will be just over 8 amps, the published max
> loads for these items is just over 18, but because the manufacturers
> recommend much larger breakers for thier equipment (like the blue
> mountain EFIS), the breaker protected max load for the line will be
> almost 40A (15 for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav, xponder,
> intercomm, and the left electronic ignition). I feel like I should
> parallel two of these diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also
> feels like overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something
> like this?
>
> Brett
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pete & Farrell Rouse" <pete-farrell(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
Jim,
You will need to put the Pitot (Total Pressure) tap in the upper plenum, on
the top side of the baffling, and the static pressure tap below the
baffling. The static pressure difference between above the baffling and
below is what causes the cooling air to flow, thus the pressure is higher on
top of the baffling. This is true unless you have updraft cooling like
Peter Garrison's Melmoth. The easy way to remember is:
Inlet = High Pressure
Outlet = Low Pressure
To figure out the density of the air, use the following formula:
rho = Pamb(psia)*144/(53.34*(Tamb(F)+459.67)
On a 59deg F day at sea level:
rho = 14.696*144/(53.34*(59+459.67))
rho = 0.07649lbm/ft
3
I have created a spreadsheet to equate indicated airspeed to inches of water
pressure differential.
I will be happy to send it to you, if you want.
Pete Rouse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sower" <canarder(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
>
> I'm told that if I put the pitot port to the plenum and the static port
above
> the engine I can expect about 120 KIAS delta which is rumored to be the
> equivalent of about 4" H2O. I'll do the math before I do any testing to
> determine what to look for by way of IAS.
> First, I'll need to look up SL, std day rho .... Jim S.
>
> George Braly wrote:
>
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > The ASI is OK. The water works but it is a bit messy and difficult.
> >
> > You should not expect to see more than about 3" to 8" of water column
> > difference.
> >
> > An ASI reads about 200 knots at 2 PSI differential. Note the difference
in
> > units!!!
> >
> > HOWEVER... you will not get meaningfully useful readings unless you
install
> > piccolo tubes on both the input and the reference (static) side of the
> > tubing that you run to the ASI.
> >
> > There are some cheap low pressure differential pressure transducers
that
> > will work nicely and are calibrated in the 0-10 or 0-15" H2O span.
> >
> > You can read the output with a volt meter.
> >
> > Regards, George
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
> > Sower
> > To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been there. Turned out messy and awkward for me. ASI is more
accurate
> > (better
> > granularity). I think I've got a line on a real cheap one now.
> > Jim S.
> >
> > Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
> > > cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
> > > (could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
> > > to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
> > >
> > > Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
> > > assistance.
> > >
> > > http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Kingsley Hurst
> > > Europa Mono Classic 281
> > > in Oz
> > > About to install third and final window.--
> >
> > Jim Sower
> > Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
> > Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
> >
> > ---
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >
> > ---
> >
>
> --
> Jim Sower
> Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
> Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MOV's/Transorbs? |
>
>Bob, In the mid 90's I wired my airplane (RV) master/starter contactors
>with those MOV's you recommended then. For many years since then you have
>called out the spike catcher diodes. Do I need to change for better
>physics? Do the MOV's have a useful life caused by the inductive spikes
>that they pass? What would you do?
The MOVs had a certain allure to them at the time . . . they
are bi-directional devices and the installer didn't have to
worry about polarity. Diodes on the other hand are much easier
to find (low voltage MOVs are not commonly stocked except by
large suppliers like Allied and Digikey) and do a better job
of clamping off the inductive spike.
I'm considering expanding the article on spike catcher diodes
to illustrate the effects and "benefits" of MOVs and didoes
+ zeners (recommended by some relay manufacturers).
I think I'd switch to diodes. Also, if you've got an MOV
across the starter switch (as shown on some earlier diagrams)
you can leave it there and simply add the diode across the
starter contactor coil.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Question |
>
>
>Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
>
>I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with the
>back feed diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC.
IF installed on adequate heat sink . . .
>My normal ESS running load will be just over 8 amps, the published max
>loads for these items is just over 18, but because the manufacturers
>recommend much larger breakers for thier equipment (like the blue mountain
>EFIS), the breaker protected max load for the line will be almost 40A (15
>for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav, xponder, intercomm, and the
>left electronic ignition). I feel like I should parallel two of these
>diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also feels like
>overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something like this?
Are you using breakers or fuses? A fault downstream on a fuse
will not hurt the diode (in spite of the fact that 300 or more
amps will flow for milliseconds). I wouldn't worry about transient
loads. For all those equipment items . . . just mount your diode
assembly on a metal surface.
Paralleling diodes is a mixed bag . . . they don't share loads
well. I'd move the electronic ignition to the battery bus.
Also, pitot heat doesn't go on an endurance bus. If you
plan to spend long periods of time in clouds, you need two
alternators.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Indicator |
120 KIAS = 9.5" H2O
I've got an Excel spreadsheet that converts between ASI and manometer readings:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
Kevin Horton
>
>I'm told that if I put the pitot port to the plenum and the static port above
>the engine I can expect about 120 KIAS delta which is rumored to be the
>equivalent of about 4" H2O. I'll do the math before I do any testing to
>determine what to look for by way of IAS.
>First, I'll need to look up SL, std day rho .... Jim S.
>
>George Braly wrote:
>
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> The ASI is OK. The water works but it is a bit messy and difficult.
>>
>> You should not expect to see more than about 3" to 8" of water column
>> difference.
>>
>> An ASI reads about 200 knots at 2 PSI differential. Note the difference in
>> units!!!
>>
>> HOWEVER... you will not get meaningfully useful readings unless you install
>> piccolo tubes on both the input and the reference (static) side of the
>> tubing that you run to the ASI.
>>
>> There are some cheap low pressure differential pressure transducers that
>> will work nicely and are calibrated in the 0-10 or 0-15" H2O span.
>>
>> You can read the output with a volt meter.
>>
>> Regards, George
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
>> Sower
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Airspeed Indicator
>>
>>
>>
>> I've been there. Turned out messy and awkward for me. ASI is more accurate
>> (better
>> granularity). I think I've got a line on a real cheap one now.
>> Jim S.
>>
>> Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>>
>> > Jim,
>> >
>> > How would a simple manometer "U tube" made of plastic tubing be? Very
>> > cheap! I don't have it to hand at this moment, but a few months ago
>> > (could even be up to 12 mths) there was discussion on this list of how
>> > to calibrate same for the checking of ASI's.
>> >
>> > Just found the following reference on the web which may be of some
>> > assistance.
>> >
>> > http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/manometer.cfm#calc
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Kingsley Hurst
>> > Europa Mono Classic 281
>> > in Oz
> > > About to install third and final window.--
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Question |
Thanks Bob, I'm installing 2 B&C alternators since I've got electronic
ignition and all electric instruments, and have the essential bus in case I
need to shutdown both, really. Kind of belt, suspenders and bib-overalls I
guess, but I figured why not?....
Brett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Design Question
>
> >
> >
> >Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
> >
> >I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with the
> >back feed diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC.
>
> IF installed on adequate heat sink . . .
>
> >My normal ESS running load will be just over 8 amps, the published max
> >loads for these items is just over 18, but because the manufacturers
> >recommend much larger breakers for thier equipment (like the blue
mountain
> >EFIS), the breaker protected max load for the line will be almost 40A (15
> >for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav, xponder, intercomm, and the
> >left electronic ignition). I feel like I should parallel two of these
> >diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also feels like
> >overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something like this?
>
> Are you using breakers or fuses? A fault downstream on a fuse
> will not hurt the diode (in spite of the fact that 300 or more
> amps will flow for milliseconds). I wouldn't worry about transient
> loads. For all those equipment items . . . just mount your diode
> assembly on a metal surface.
>
> Paralleling diodes is a mixed bag . . . they don't share loads
> well. I'd move the electronic ignition to the battery bus.
> Also, pitot heat doesn't go on an endurance bus. If you
> plan to spend long periods of time in clouds, you need two
> alternators.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: No Electric Starter/System Ques |
>
>Hi Bob and All.
>
>I have been pushing these questions around in my head making myself crazy. I
>have read the Connection at least once (sections several times). I have been
>into the archives. Just for the record, there are 474 postings containing
>the words "Battery Bus". I still have questions.
>SO I guess it's time to get clarification. I will try and organize it so
>that answers can be inserted into the text.
>
>BACKGROUND
>Our Moose with the M-14 radial engine uses an air start system and therefore
>has no electric starter and no starter contactor. We are setting up the all
>electric airplane on a budget using Z-13 as our reference. Z-13 accounts for
>the use of a starter, part of my problem. We are using a Skytronics 50 amp
>main alternator with their new voltage regulator which incorporates a
>voltage protector. A SD-8 is our aux alternator.
>
>BATTERY
>We are trying to decide on amp hour rating. In the RG Odessey line we see
>12 ah PC545 @ 12 Lbs. 16 ah PC625 @ 13 Lbs. and the 16 ah PC680 @ 15 Lbs.
>
>*Without the need for electric start and having two alternators are we
>foolish to
> go larger than 12 ah.?
I'd go with the cost-of-ownership decision. There are 17 a.h. batteries
in the 3 x 7 x 7 form factor available for VERY reasonable cost due
to huge-volume popularity of this particular battery.
Unless you're really weight conscious, I'd go for the Panasonic 17 a.h.
batteries that sell for as little as $40 each. With two alternators,
you could probably consider swapping the battery out every two or
three years.
>HEAVY WIRES
>The battery will be located under the co-pilots seat along with the battery
>contactor.
>I had anticipated using #4 wire to run my battery ground to the firewall and
>to run from the battery contactor to the main bus. The aircraft wire I
>purchased is pretty stiff (should have gotten welding cable) The 50 amp
>alternator feed on the Skytronics installation schematic shows #6 if bundled
>and #8 if in free air. I was planning on the purchase of #6 welding cable.
>(and using an anl-60 already purchased)
>? Do I need #4 wire from the battery given no starting circuit ? Would the
>#6 FLEXIBLE welding
> cable do the job? #8 ?
Probably can't get #6 welding cable. That's pretty light for welding
currents . . . #4 is easy to get, reasonably light and VERY easy to
work with. How about #4 welding cable throughout?
>HEAVY WIRE FEEDS, BATTERY AND CONTACTOR
>#4 or as determined above.
>
>1. The battery negative cable goes directly to the firewall G2.
>
>2. The battery positive cable goes a short distance to the nearby
>contactor's bat terminal.
>
>3. The output cable of the battery contactor goes to the Main Bus Fuse Block
>located up under the
> instrument panel.
> ? Is it correct that this cable is to be placed out of harms way and is
> not protected with i.e. large fuse or anl?
Yes . . .
> ?Is there any problem with this cable running to the Main Bus past the back
>of the radio stack?
Probably not . . .
>MAIN ALTERNATOR OUTPUT
>
>1. ? Without a starter contactor will the output of the main 50 amp
>alternator go to the
> 60-anl on the firewall and then to the post of the Main Bus Fuse
>Block?
Yes, but mount the ANL-60 as close to Main Bus as practical.
>LOCATION OF THE BATTERY BUS
>
>After spending hours in the archives (slow learner) I understand that the
>Battery Bus belongs next to the Battery. At the moment I see only the clock,
>CD player keep alive, and possibly s small emergency light on the Bat Bus.
>We are talking mA's without the emergency light. The Battery Bus (BB) will
>feed the E-Bus which will be supported by the SD-8 alt. Supported by the
>SD-8, the E-Bus could have a continuous load of 7-10 amps and short loads to
>say 15 amps. This results in an fused extended feeder carrying more than the
>recommended 5-7 amps. I read that in these cases a relay, say a S704-1, can
>be used like a light contactor to supply the E-Buss from the BB, Links to a
>schematic were given. The link did not work for me.
>? Does my description above work?
> Is there a link to a schematic of the relay installation in this
>situation that is current?
Adding a relay to the e-bus fat-feed is illustrated at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/E-BusFatFeed.gif
>? In the above layout can the SD-8's output feed the system using #12 wire
>via the BB with,
> say, a 15 amp fuse instead of using a fuselink connected to the Bat side
>of the contactor?
Sure . . .
>A MORTAL SIN BUT BARE WITH ME
>
>? Let's say it is determined that the total BB and E-Bus continuous loads
>are in the order
> of 5-7 amps and the extended feeder to the remote mounted BB was
>protected at the battery
> with a 5-7 amp FUSE. Would such an installation be sinful?
Probably okay but if you have an e-bus continuous load of
of 7A I'd go with the relay and a 10A feeder.
>? In the above scenario would the return feed from the BB to the battery
>with its 5-7 amp fuse
> preclude bringing the SD-8 output into the system via the remote BB?
No . . . That connection as you described above would be fine.
>Thanks in advance for your time and patience, your help is invaluable.
My pleasure sir . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Jim Jewell ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim Jewell
Subject: Homemade Baffle Pass Through Fitting
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jjewell@telus.net.12.17.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fat Feed Relay & Contactor |
| From: | Don Boardman <dboardm3(at)twcny.rr.com> |
Hi Bob ... guys,
Thank you for the timely reply to last night's email on
No Electric Starter/System Ques.
I am going with your suggestions.
Your response gave me just what I needed to proceed!
More questions.
RELAY DIODE
A question about the use of the S704-1 relay on the fat feed from
the BB to the E-bus.
I see how the relay is wired into the system for the SD-8 on Z-13.
No Diode is involved.
The relay in the Fat Feed schematic
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/E-BusFatFeed.gif
has a diode associated with it.
* What's up with the diode? What type is it?
Is it like the normal feed diode, a D25 or a diode like on the contactor?
You remind me to heatsink the normal feed diode which allows the main bus to
feed the E-bus.
* Does mounting it on an aluminum shelf or firewall do the job?
BATTERY CONTACTOR
I purchased the "wrong" contactor a year ago .
I saw prewired and went for a S701-2.
I missed that it was a crossfeed contactor. I realize I need a S701-1 for my
battery contactor. On the web site the pictures look like each is a
4-terminal constant duty contactor.
* Can I simply use the pictures on the web site as a guide and remove the
two extra diodes and add the jumper from the Bat to the coil terminal?
Thanks,
Don B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fat Feed Relay & Contactor |
>
>Hi Bob ... guys,
>
>Thank you for the timely reply to last night's email on
>No Electric Starter/System Ques.
>I am going with your suggestions.
>Your response gave me just what I needed to proceed!
>
>More questions.
>
>RELAY DIODE
>
>A question about the use of the S704-1 relay on the fat feed from
>the BB to the E-bus.
>I see how the relay is wired into the system for the SD-8 on Z-13.
>No Diode is involved.
>The relay in the Fat Feed schematic
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/E-BusFatFeed.gif
>has a diode associated with it.
>
>* What's up with the diode? What type is it?
> Is it like the normal feed diode, a D25 or a diode like on the contactor?
No, the diode across the relay coil is an itty-bitty feller. Any
of the 1N4000 series diodes is fine (1N4001 thru 1N4007). Radio
Shack 276-1101 will get you a pair of these critters for about
60 cents.
>You remind me to heatsink the normal feed diode which allows the main bus to
>feed the E-bus.
>
>* Does mounting it on an aluminum shelf or firewall do the job?
sure
>BATTERY CONTACTOR
>
>I purchased the "wrong" contactor a year ago .
>I saw prewired and went for a S701-2.
>I missed that it was a crossfeed contactor. I realize I need a S701-1 for my
>battery contactor. On the web site the pictures look like each is a
>4-terminal constant duty contactor.
>* Can I simply use the pictures on the web site as a guide and remove the
>two extra diodes and add the jumper from the Bat to the coil terminal?
>
Yes
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Question |
>
>
>Thanks Bob, I'm installing 2 B&C alternators since I've got electronic
>ignition and all electric instruments, and have the essential bus in case I
>need to shutdown both, really. Kind of belt, suspenders and bib-overalls I
>guess, but I figured why not?....
It would be helpful to know the answers to my questions. Also,
which Z-figure are you using?
>Brett
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Design Question
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
> > >
> > >I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with the
> > >back feed diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC.
> >
> > IF installed on adequate heat sink . . .
> >
> > >My normal ESS running load will be just over 8 amps, the published max
> > >loads for these items is just over 18, but because the manufacturers
> > >recommend much larger breakers for thier equipment (like the blue
>mountain
> > >EFIS), the breaker protected max load for the line will be almost 40A (15
> > >for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav, xponder, intercomm, and the
> > >left electronic ignition). I feel like I should parallel two of these
> > >diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also feels like
> > >overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something like this?
> >
> > Are you using breakers or fuses? A fault downstream on a fuse
> > will not hurt the diode (in spite of the fact that 300 or more
> > amps will flow for milliseconds). I wouldn't worry about transient
> > loads. For all those equipment items . . . just mount your diode
> > assembly on a metal surface.
> >
> > Paralleling diodes is a mixed bag . . . they don't share loads
> > well. I'd move the electronic ignition to the battery bus.
> > Also, pitot heat doesn't go on an endurance bus. If you
> > plan to spend long periods of time in clouds, you need two
> > alternators.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( A beginning of the end is marked by )
( replacement of experience and common )
( sense with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brett Ferrell <bferrell(at)123mail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Question |
Bob,
Apologies. I'm using Z12 (single battery, dual alternator) as a starting point,
and am using primarily fuses, with C/B for mainly the avionics and ignition.
Since this is going onto my Velocity XL/FG I'm also using the canard grounding
figure Z15(b).
Based on your input I would take the one ignition off the essential bus to the
battery bus, and move the pitot to the main bus, correct? That would take my
essential bus (breakered) load down to 22A (with a usual running load of about
6.5A, and "max running" load of just over 14). If I attach the diode to an aluminum
plate, I assume it would need to be stood off of any fibeglass surfaces,
correct (both to protect the glass from overheating and provide convective
fin area for the diode)?
Brett
Quoting "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" :
>
>
> >
> >
> >Thanks Bob, I'm installing 2 B&C alternators since I've got electronic
> >ignition and all electric instruments, and have the essential bus in
> case I
> >need to shutdown both, really. Kind of belt, suspenders and
> bib-overalls I
> >guess, but I figured why not?....
>
> It would be helpful to know the answers to my questions. Also,
> which Z-figure are you using?
>
> >Brett
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Design Question
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Here's one for you electrical design/engineer types,
> > > >
> > > >I have a essential bus in my all electric plane system design, with
> the
> > > >back feed diode that's rated at (I believe) 25 amps from BandC.
> > >
> > > IF installed on adequate heat sink . . .
> > >
> > > >My normal ESS running load will be just over 8 amps, the published
> max
> > > >loads for these items is just over 18, but because the
> manufacturers
> > > >recommend much larger breakers for thier equipment (like the blue
> >mountain
> > > >EFIS), the breaker protected max load for the line will be almost
> 40A (15
> > > >for pitot, 10 for the EFIS, a comm, a nav, xponder, intercomm, and
> the
> > > >left electronic ignition). I feel like I should parallel two of
> these
> > > >diodes so I don't risk burning one up, but it also feels like
> > > >overkill. What's the best practice/convention on something like
> this?
> > >
> > > Are you using breakers or fuses? A fault downstream on a fuse
> > > will not hurt the diode (in spite of the fact that 300 or more
> > > amps will flow for milliseconds). I wouldn't worry about
> transient
> > > loads. For all those equipment items . . . just mount your diode
> > > assembly on a metal surface.
> > >
> > > Paralleling diodes is a mixed bag . . . they don't share loads
> > > well. I'd move the electronic ignition to the battery bus.
> > > Also, pitot heat doesn't go on an endurance bus. If you
> > > plan to spend long periods of time in clouds, you need two
> > > alternators.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( A beginning of the end is marked by )
> ( replacement of experience and common )
> ( sense with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Visit us at www.velocityxl.com
44VF Velocity XL/FG
I68 Cincinnati, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Pflanzer" <f1rocket(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wiring Diagrams Available |
For those of you with the interest, I posted all the wiring diagrams for my F1
Rocket on my web site today. You can get to them off of the F1 Rocket Project
page. You can view them as .PDF files using Adobe Acrobat.
Perhaps you'll find them helpful. I don't have them all there yet as I am still
undecided on my EFIS and avionics packages.
Let me know if you see something that looks like it will let all the smoke out
of the wires!!
Regards,
Randy #95
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ANL 20n current limiter source |
Was planning to place a final order to collect remaining needs for my
electrical system and saw that the B&C site doesn't offer ANL 20 current
limiters. I figured this would be the right one for my #2 alternator, the
SD-20. If not, would I do harm by substituting an ANL 40?
On a similar topic, the information from Continental says that the
alternator that comes with the engine (IO-550) provides 70 amps. Should I
order an ANL 60 or an ANL 70 for the primary alternator?
Thanks,
Dan O'Brien
Lancair ES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | OV module on RV with 60A internally-regulated alt. |
December 05, 2003 - December 19, 2003
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-cs