AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ff
January 02, 2006 - January 06, 2006
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Airparts.
>
> >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>
> >The only concerns I might have for alternator "stress" at low rpm is
> >cooling. This is hard to achieve on a Lycoming installation when you leave
> >the small pulley in place. Even so, terms like "low rpm", "very high draw",
> >"extra strain", "reducing total load", and "brief" are all
> non-quantified terms
> >having no value for advancing either understanding or increasing service
> >life of the alternator.
>
>I think it is hilarious that you are NOW writing Niagara Airparts, aka
>Canadian Aero Manufacturing, to ask what they meant in their alternator
>instructions. Its great you are asking, but you already have run your mouth.
>You said its wrong and gives no insight or understanding into the physics.
>Why start asking questions now? You attacked Vans, Blue Mountain
>Avionics and Skytec with out asking for their opinion or clarification first.
I'm pleased that you're enjoying it sir but I wonder if you
truly understand the reason for the inquiry . . . and please
note that the quotation of me was taken from something other
than my letter to Niagara.
I did talk to Van's . . . they could not offer any clarification.
I never attacked Blue Mountain. Greg attacked me with words like:
"I've seen so much truly atrocious work, much of it per Bob's book".
When I asked him for clarification, over the course of several
e-mails he refused to answer a single, direct and politely
crafted question.
Words SHOULD mean things. So one presumes that when the phrases
I cited above were offered to expand a customer's understanding
of the product offered, it's reasonable to ask for definitions.
This is especially important when the words seem to imply
weakness or fragility when compared to similar products.
For example, suppose I offered you a new kit aircraft where I
suggested: "Do not operate too slow lest you fall out of the sky,
do not apply full control movements too fast lest you break something."
Would you not be curious as to the numbers describing "too slow"
and "too fast."
I'm aware of no other manufacturer who has found value in suggesting
that their alternator be "pampered" in any way. The astute consumer
would want to know what's different between Niagara's products
their competition . . . and further, what value the customer might
get from observing the cautions.
I'll make a wager with you. I'm willing to bet that the folks at
Niagara have no basis in physics for the paragraph under discussion.
We'll further deduce that putting such words in their product
literature unfairly suggests a deficiency in their product's
capabilities. We'll find that eliminating those words will make
their customers feel better about the product and offer no real
risks for making the decision to buy the product. What's your
wager? What's your hypothesis as to the answers to my questions?
I'll suggest that a discussion of alternator physics will be a lot
more fun than trying to paint me as the dishonorable individual you
seem to perceive.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion and not lacking them by the way, but why
>care what Niagara says now; it makes no difference, you are right, they are
>wrong. Your ability to write is far superior to anyone, so it is
>understandable
>that it does not meet your standards. Why embarrass them with their
>ignorance.
I offered nothing in the way of an opinion to Niagra. I simply
introduced myself and inquired as to further definition of their
words. It's not polite to start a conversation with an argument
when it's possible that they will come forward with perfectly
good reasons for their words. If they have good reasons, I'll
be delighted to understand the basis on which they're offered.
That's how one learns new things. Wouldn't you agree? Are you
not equally interested in their answer? Wouldn't it be really
cool if I win my wager and Niagara's products can shed
an unfair suggestion of reduced value?
>
> >By way of introduction, I'm currently an electrical engineer
> >for Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) in Wichita, KS.
>
>Bob, you are not an engineer. You need to go to school and have a degree to
>be an engineer. I dont care what your title is at Raytheon. You are not an
>engineer and never will be. You are no doubt an excellent technician but you
>are no engineer. It is like calling a garbage collector a sanitation
>engineer,
>the word engineer is there, but the can-thrower is no more an engineer than
>you are a BSEE, MSEE or Ph.D EE. I dont care how well you work an
>oscilloscope or solder iron that is not engineering.
Please don't toss the ol' sop out about degrees.
I've worked with many well degreed folks who cannot do
1/10th of what I do. A degree is simply a demonstration of
your ability to learn and says nothing about your ability or
willingness to apply what you've learned. I was blessed with many
opportunities to learn on my job. You know nothing about how
well I do anything and what my employers choose to call me and how
they assign my tasks is their business.
I've worked with some stellar folks and with some duds both
in management and engineering. So what's new? Are you suggesting
that ANY "real" EE could step in an take my job? Some could,
most could not.
>
> The title engineer is one of the most miss used and abused terms. The
>American Medical Board would not allow anyone to put up a shingle and
>call himself or herself a Medical Doctor, MD. However in this country
>anyone can call themselves an engineer.
>
> As a licensed PE, with two engineering degrees I am offended by your
>assertion you're an engineer, especially after your comments of contempt
>and low esteem towards engineers.
Only some engineers. Nature has provided us with the bell curve:
a graphical presentation of gaussian distribution of traits in
large populations. In the population of engineers, there are some
that are very good and place high on the ordinate for capability
but low in numbers compared to the whole. But for every exceptional
individual, there must be a counter balancing individual who
may wear the mantle but has never achieved stature in their
craft. These too are small in number. Most are scattered along the
curve in accordance with their skills, willingness to learn and
opportunities to exercise their craft. I shouldn't have to explain
that to an educated person but meanings you attribute to my words
suggest that you don't understand this simple truth.
>
> Bob you said you would rather hire a person from a community college
>who knows his way around a workbench than an engineer. First I seriously
>doubt you are in charge of hiring engineers.
I have said no such thing. I've made note of the fact that
my JC techs could all hit the ground running and the brightest
and most motivated became invaluable employees . . . some went
on to get higher degrees and are still invaluable employees. But
as noted above, a degree does not an invaluable employee make.
All of us have to perform in the marketplace and a degree guarantees
nothing.
>Second your ignorance is common of people who dont know the body of
>knowledge which
>encompasses engineering. You're like Cliff Calvin, the Postman on Cheers.
>You know a few facts and throw around words with out understanding, like
>failure mode analysis to impresses someone. LETS SEE YOUR FMA
>ANALYSIS. LETS SEE YOUR DATA. What no data?
Hmmm . . . first I'm compared with Fox News and now Cheers.
I don't watch either. In fact I watch very little television.
Therefore I'm at a loss to evaluate your similes.
George, George . . . you claim to know so much about me
but you keep offering opinions that do not agree with fact.
May I suggest some good books might prove much more useful
than television? Have you read any Thomas Sowell? Frederick Bastiat?
Thomas Paine? Don't if or where these guys went to school and
it doesn't matter. They write in simple ideas imminently understandable
and of obvious value. My goal is to think and write like these
men. What are your goals?
>
> Your comment of how unnecessary math is speaks to your ignorance of
>engineering. Engineers do not necessarily work on the bench. I am sure
>you can regale us with stories of how incompetent engineers are and how
>superior you are over those college boys.
Gee, I'll have to think about that . . . no, I don't have
any such stories. But I can tell you that in the aircraft business,
the vast majority of degreed engineers have become paper-pushers.
Their engineering knowledge brought with them out of school
was never given an opportunity to be exercised and grow. . . use it
or loose it. Unlike most of my contemporaries, I'm blessed with
opportunities to learn something new every day. Aviation is
singularly hard on engineers and offers only rare opportunities
to excel.
> Dumb engineers will live with
>it, leaving the workbench to your Votech oscilloscope jockeys and solder
>iron artist. I learned how to run a scope and solder iron when I was 13 years
>old. It is a vocational skill not engineering Bob. Your just a little
>delusional.
The delusion is your's sir. You're welcome to come walk with me
for a week and see what I do for a living . . .
When did I ever speak to the uselessness of math? I cannot imagine
where you get these ideas. I have a half dozen computers that I regularly
program for various control tasks and analysis by calculation. I try
to keep plenty of calculators laying around so that one is always at
hand. I have one on my wrist! Now, when was the last time I was able
to make use of any technique from say, chapter 13 of my Calculus text
book? Never. That doesn't mean those disciplines are not useful to
some individuals. Every engineer I've ever worked with has confirmed
that in the hard-cold-cruel world of keeping happy customers coming back
to buy your products, they've used but a tiny fraction of that which
academia thought was important.
>
>As a PE and with a MSME it is unacceptable if Raytheon capriciously calls
>technical employees like yourself engineers, who do not hold a degree
>from a college of engineering, accredited by ABET (American Board of
>Engineering Technology).
>
>NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers) handles the licenser of
>Professional Engineers (PE) and protects the profession from frauds, albeit
>and apparently poorly. I hope the real engineers at Raytheon who hold
>advanced degrees do not let technicians, such yourself hold the title of
>engineer, and your letter to Niagara is just your normal smoke blowing
>boastful self-importance display of grandioseness and pomposity.
>
>Does your stupid management know you write all kinds of negative
>comments about management (them) and Raytheon? I need to sell my
>Raytheon stock. It is up over $40 and I bought it at $30. Knowing how
>disgruntled you are with management and how Raytheon does not appreciate
>you Bob, I better sell my stock right now.
I'd recommend that. If Raytheon would dump the aircraft albatross
the corporate stock would probably run back up to $75. Now that
the 4000 is close to certification, they'll probably continue their
exercise in self-abuse somewhat longer. But short of a big shooting
war I don't expect to see Raytheon stock do anything spectacular.
Less than 1/4th of my retirement portfolio holds Raytheon. Just
the humble opinion of an inside observer over the past 20 years.
But please don't take my word for it. I bought all of my stock
when it crashed from $75 to $18 a few years back . . . but it's been
frustratingly static for a long time. My investment advisor cousin
has suggested that I not buy any more . . . there are presently
much better places to put your money.
>I have my sell order in for Monday
>morning. A thanks for the heads up on how screwed up Raytheon is. I know
>how you feel, you being an Eagle its hard to soar with Turkeys. Things
>would be so much better if you where running things I'm sure. Oh well.
>
> Your Buddy George, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767
>
> Happy New Years.
My new year is starting off very nicely thank you. I'm sorry
that your's is so burdened with unhappy thoughts borne out of
ignorance about me and what appears to be a disregard for folks
who choose to learn outside the hallowed halls of ivy. If universities
were the only source for useful knowledge, there are many stellar
minds in history that should never have achieved greatness.
I'm saddened that you do not seem to understand or appreciate
this fact.
Your buddy Bob (a get-yer-hands-dirty imposter that draws the
salary of an engineer and has thousands of
happy customers).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heavy Duty battery & Starter Cables |
>
>I recall seeing on Bob's website a few years ago that he offered some
>custom made cables, perhaps with more flex than tefzal. However I find
>no reference to any of that now. Can anyone point me in the right
>direction, or who might offer such a service, as I don't really want to
>buy crimpers for #2 lugs.
http://bandc.biz took over that business from me several
years ago. But you could solder them as well. It's an equally
useful technique described at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
Chilling.
I've done something similar but far less grave by entering an estimated position
from a sectional for a private airport, then flying there, and upon landing
entering the menu to refine the lat-lon data to reflect actual position on the
ground. Somehow an "N" got toggled to an "S" on the lattitude while I fiddled
with it, and the Go To feature, when next activated, showed over 3,000 miles
to return to the field I had just left! Didn't take long to figure out, but
it gives added realism to me for what these lost souls faced that day over the
Pacific.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Gotcha!
1/2/2005
For all of us believers in the magic of GPS and modern avionics please read
the below cautionary tale:
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/2003/A03F0114/A03F0114.asp
My flight time over the ocean is not that great, but the terror that wells
up when one has been out of sight of land for hours and is uncertain of
their position is huge.
Particularly note the diagram at the end of this article. Imagine the
decision process / courage involved in making that greater than 270 degree
turn to the right.
OC
PS: All pilots flying around IFR with out dated GPS data bases should read
this article.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> Airparts. |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Airparts.
Well, Georgy-poo, I know what Bob has contributed to this hobby over the
past decade. Just exactly what have you contributed to our understanding of
OBAM electrical systems?
Dave Morris
Software ENGINEER
At 12:34 AM 1/2/2006, you wrote:
>
> >From:
> "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> >The only concerns I might have for alternator "stress" at low rpm is
> >cooling. This is hard to achieve on a Lycoming installation when you leave
> >the small pulley in place. Even so, terms like "low rpm", "very high draw",
> >"extra strain", "reducing total load", and "brief" are all
> non-quantified terms
> >having no value for advancing either understanding or increasing service
> >life of the alternator.
>
>I think it is hilarious that you are NOW writing Niagara Airparts, aka
>Canadian Aero Manufacturing, to ask what they meant in their alternator
>instructions. Its great you are asking, but you already have run your mouth.
>You said its wrong and gives no insight or understanding into the physics.
>Why start asking questions now? You attacked Vans, Blue Mountain
>Avionics and Skytec with out asking for their opinion or clarification first.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion and not lacking them by the way, but why
>care what Niagara says now; it makes no difference, you are right, they are
>wrong. Your ability to write is far superior to anyone, so it is
>understandable
>that it does not meet your standards. Why embarrass them with their
>ignorance.
>
> >By way of introduction, I'm currently an electrical engineer
> >for Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) in Wichita, KS.
>
>Bob, you are not an engineer. You need to go to school and have a degree to
>be an engineer. I dont care what your title is at Raytheon. You are not an
>engineer and never will be. You are no doubt an excellent technician but you
>are no engineer. It is like calling a garbage collector a sanitation
>engineer,
>the word engineer is there, but the can-thrower is no more an engineer than
>you are a BSEE, MSEE or Ph.D EE. I dont care how well you work an
>oscilloscope or solder iron that is not engineering.
>
> The title engineer is one of the most miss used and abused terms. The
>American Medical Board would not allow anyone to put up a shingle and
>call himself or herself a Medical Doctor, MD. However in this country
>anyone can call themselves an engineer.
>
> As a licensed PE, with two engineering degrees I am offended by your
>assertion you're an engineer, especially after your comments of contempt
>and low esteem towards engineers.
>
> Bob you said you would rather hire a person from a community college
>who knows his way around a workbench than an engineer. First I seriously
>doubt you are in charge of hiring engineers. Second your ignorance is
>common of people who dont know the body of knowledge which
>encompasses engineering. You're like Cliff Calvin, the Postman on Cheers.
>You know a few facts and throw around words with out understanding, like
>failure mode analysis to impresses someone. LETS SEE YOUR FMA
>ANALYSIS. LETS SEE YOUR DATA. What no data?
>
> Your comment of how unnecessary math is speaks to your ignorance of
>engineering. Engineers do not necessarily work on the bench. I am sure
>you can regale us with stories of how incompetent engineers are and how
>superior you are over those college boys. Dumb engineers will live with
>it, leaving the workbench to your Votech oscilloscope jockeys and solder
>iron artist. I learned how to run a scope and solder iron when I was 13 years
>old. It is a vocational skill not engineering Bob. Your just a little
>delusional.
>
> As a PE and with a MSME it is unacceptable if Raytheon capriciously calls
>technical employees like yourself engineers, who do not hold a degree
>from a college of engineering, accredited by ABET (American Board of
>Engineering Technology).
>
> NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers) handles the licenser of
>Professional Engineers (PE) and protects the profession from frauds, albeit
>and apparently poorly. I hope the real engineers at Raytheon who hold
>advanced degrees do not let technicians, such yourself hold the title of
>engineer, and your letter to Niagara is just your normal smoke blowing
>boastful self-importance display of grandioseness and pomposity.
>
> Does your stupid management know you write all kinds of negative
>comments about management (them) and Raytheon? I need to sell my
>Raytheon stock. It is up over $40 and I bought it at $30. Knowing how
>disgruntled you are with management and how Raytheon does not appreciate
>you Bob, I better sell my stock right now. I have my sell order in for Monday
>morning. A thanks for the heads up on how screwed up Raytheon is. I know
>how you feel, you being an Eagle its hard to soar with Turkeys. Things
>would be so much better if you where running things I'm sure. Oh well.
>
> Your Buddy George, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767
>
> Happy New Years.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
Morning, Rob...
That's me!
And, I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no bulb
(to check the number of, so I can cross it's specs to find a compatible
12-14 volt version). And, at the moment, it's stored on a shelf down in
my hangar...about 25 miles from here, and freezing rain predicted for
today!
So, I ain't going nowhere.
So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses, then
repair parts) found the following:
330 - 14V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
Cat No: 330 $3.00
334 - 28V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
Cat No: 334
Now we both know!
Harley Dixon
Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
>Harley wrote with the answer to the "Eyeball Light
>Question" So maybe he or one of the other cognoscenti on the list can help
>with my query.
>I have an (older) Airpath compass with MS17983-2 on the front. It has a
>flip up hood at the top of the front which looks to be where a cylindrical
>bulb should be inserted. It states that it is for 28v but I can see no
>reason why 12v won't work. Is this a correct assumption and does anyone
>know of a source/ part number for a 12v version of this which might work?
>The back of the compass has a co-axial push on connection for the electrical
>supply. Can anyone suggest a source / part number for this too?
>Thanks
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley
>N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
>La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
>
>
>Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | D25 Steering Diode Question ? |
Anyone? Just need a little learning experience. In the Connection, Bob says
you can just cut off two of the tabs on the D25 and use the + and one
adjacent to the +. It appears that either of the poles adjacent to the +
will work fine. Now, on the diagram that came with the D25 from B&C, they
show a configuration as a steering diode between the Main and E-Bus and they
want you to connect both of the poles adjacent to + in a kind of wishbone
scenario instead of just one pole.
I think that there is a diode on each pole but what would be the benefit of
connecting it this way. Does it carry more current, provide redundancy,
etc. ?? Why or why not use this configuration?
Thanks for the help.
Bill S
7a Ark
fuse/panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 1/2/2006 9:06:32 A.M. Central Standard Time,
sportav8r(at)aol.com writes:
Chilling.
I've done something similar but far less grave by entering an estimated
position from a sectional for a private airport, then flying there, and upon
landing entering the menu to refine the lat-lon data to reflect actual position
on the ground. Somehow an "N" got toggled to an "S" on the lattitude while I
fiddled with it, and the Go To feature, when next activated, showed over
3,000 miles to return to the field I had just left! Didn't take long to figure
out, but it gives added realism to me for what these lost souls faced that day
over the Pacific.
-Stormy
Good Morning Stormy and OC,
Garbage in, Garbage out.
The problem with self loading of waypoints is evident. In the early days of
INS navigation we often misloaded waypoints in the navigation units. We all
thought we were being careful, but errors did creep in. After a few
mistakes, most of us established fairly good procedures for cross checks to catch
the errors. Shortly before I retired, the company I worked for did issue
company procedures which were culled from the various methods that had been found
to work adequately by the using crews.
The difficulties encountered by that Convair crew could imply that they were
not being careful. However, my experience tells me that it could happen,
and often has, to almost any competent crew. Fortunately, when such things
happened to most of us, we were not in a position where it caused a problem.
We who were flying for major carriers had the benefit of the experience of
all of the pilots we worked with to help us develop good cross checking
procedures. Those procedures were then formalized and issued to the working crews.
While those procedures should keep things on an even keel, it is still
important to remind the crews that we are human and do make mistakes.
I have always felt that the smartest thing my employer did was encourage
crews to let everybody else know every time that we made individual errors so
that all crews could learn therefrom.
No one was ever chastised for making an error. The idea was that if one of
us could make that mistake, so could the rest of us.
The most dangerous attitude of all is that attitude which says: "I could
never do something that dumb because my procedures are fool proof."
Better yet (with absolutely NO religious connotation meant or implied)
"There but for the grace of God go I."
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
>
>Morning, Rob...
>
>That's me!
>
>And, I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no bulb
>(to check the number of, so I can cross it's specs to find a compatible
>12-14 volt version). And, at the moment, it's stored on a shelf down in
>my hangar...about 25 miles from here, and freezing rain predicted for
>today!
>
>So, I ain't going nowhere.
>
>So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses, then
>repair parts) found the following:
>
>330 - 14V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
>14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
>Cat No: 330 $3.00
>334 - 28V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
>28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
>Cat No: 334
here are the data sheets on these lamps:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Lamps/T1p75_lamps.pdf
You can purchase from Allied at:
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=1531.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
BRAVO, well said
Harold, not an engineer, just thankful for a Bob to help dodos such as I.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: D25 Steering Diode Question ? |
>
>
>Anyone? Just need a little learning experience. In the Connection, Bob says
>you can just cut off two of the tabs on the D25 and use the + and one
>adjacent to the +. It appears that either of the poles adjacent to the +
>will work fine.
Correct
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/diode_wiring.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/s401-25.jpg
> Now, on the diagram that came with the D25 from B&C, they
>show a configuration as a steering diode between the Main and E-Bus and they
>want you to connect both of the poles adjacent to + in a kind of wishbone
>scenario instead of just one pole.
this works too.
>I think that there is a diode on each pole but what would be the benefit of
>connecting it this way. Does it carry more current, provide redundancy,
>etc. ?? Why or why not use this configuration?
You'll get a slightly lower voltage drop but not significantly
lower. You can wire multiple diodes in parallel but don't depend
on this technique to "double" current rating of the steering diode.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Morning, Rob...
>>
>>That's me!
>>
>>And, I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no bulb
>>(to check the number of, so I can cross it's specs to find a compatible
>>12-14 volt version). And, at the moment, it's stored on a shelf down in
>>my hangar...about 25 miles from here, and freezing rain predicted for
>>today!
>>
>>So, I ain't going nowhere.
>>
>>So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses, then
>>repair parts) found the following:
>>
>>330 - 14V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
>>14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
>>Cat No: 330 $3.00
>>334 - 28V Light Bulb <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
>>28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
>>Cat No: 334
>>
>>
>
> here are the data sheets on these lamps:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Lamps/T1p75_lamps.pdf
>
> You can purchase from Allied at:
>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=1531.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Bob...
Sorry about the link to "gyrohouse" that was attached...I just meant to
copy the specs and the numbers itself ... I should have edited it before
clicking "send"!
I didn't mean to imply that you should get them there!
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
| From: | Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> |
Guy's
My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
> bulb
> So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses,
> then repair parts) found the following:
> 330 - 14V Light Bulb
> <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
> 14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
> Cat No: 330 $3.00
> 334 - 28V Light Bulb
> <http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
> 28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
> Cat No: 334
Now we both know!
Harley Dixon
Rob W M Shipley wrote:
> >I have an (older) Airpath compass with MS17983-2 on the front. It
> has a
> >flip up hood at the top of the front which looks to be where a
> cylindricalbulb should be inserted. It states that it is for 28v but I
can
> see noreason why 12v won't work. Is this a correct assumption and does
> anyoneknow of a source/ part number for a 12v version of this which
might
> work?The back of the compass has a co-axial push on connection for the
> electricalsupply. Can anyone suggest a source / part number for this
too?
> >Thanks
> >Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
Mike,
Your OVM-14 is on the way back. The setpoint was a tad low (15.8 vs 16.3)
and the unit was missing a mod we put into the other versions several years
back. I've updated and re-adjusted your unit.
I've also let B&C know that there's a loose end to be picked up. Let
us know how the repaired unit works for you.
Bob . . .
>
>Bob, reposes to your questions -
>
>"Is your OV module purchased or DIY project? If purchased,
> how long have you had it? If DIY, did you get the latest mod
> incorporated?"
>
>It was purchased from B&C, OVM-14 on 10/9/2003.
Okay, That should be the latest configuration.
> "If you have a purchased OV module, I'd like to get my hands
> on it."
>
>I can pull it and send to you but this raises other questions. Will this
>lead to any safety problems? I can appreciate your difficulty answering a
>question like that so let me rephrase it - Should I purchase and install a
>replacement before I send you the existing one?
No, I'll turn yours very quickly and real ov conditions
are very rare.
>It wired directly to the circuit breaker and ignition switch so it won't
>be much trouble to get to and remove. I just don't want a current
>annoyance to become a bigger problem, if you know what I mean. I'm based
>at Chino if you are somewhere area I can fly to your shop and we may be
>able to figure out what is going and post it to the list.
I'm in Wichita KS. Priority mail to
Bob Nuckolls
6936 Bainbridge Road
Wichita, KS 67226
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
Larry...
It appears you may have hit on something here.
After your post, I rechecked, "GyroHouse" and they do indeed list the
334 as the 28 volt bulb for the Airpath Compass. But, on checking the
configuration of the 334, it is a grooved base bulb...the 327 (which is
what you have) and the 330 are flanged bases.
Looks like GyroHouse may be selling the wrong bulb for a 28 volt system.
Harley
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>Guy's
>My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
>as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
>
> I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
>
>
>>bulb
>>So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses,
>>then repair parts) found the following:
>>330 - 14V Light Bulb
>><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
>>14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
>>Cat No: 330 $3.00
>>334 - 28V Light Bulb
>><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
>>28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
>>Cat No: 334
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
Greetings, Bob
I am incredulous that anyone could be brash enough or ignorant enough to
display his/her bigotry in a public forum as this person has. That one
wears his list of titles on his sleeve thinking that the title
"engineer" is only earned by someone with a degree. I would expect such
a bigoted, arrogant person must have either not quite entered the real
world or just entered thinking that his degrees really mean something.
Most of us know that the degrees only impress the recruiter and
influence the starting salary. From then on, it is "show us
performance". That performance of the person with a long list of degrees
often lacking in the real world.
Many of us who have monitored this list for a few years have learned to
respect your expertise, your recommendations, your writings and design
philosophies.
I have read many of the recent exchanges with the naysayers who somehow
want to grab some limelight and seem to resent your calm, polite,
measured, systematic engineering approach to evaluate claims that are
presented without data. Over the 6+ years that I have been building I
have placed much weight in the rational for your design recommendations
and incorporated many of them in my now flying RV-6A. During that time,
it never occurred to me to wonder what your academic credentials are. Or
question whether or not you had a title of ENGINEER or whatever. It has
been my considered opinion that your advice and recommendations were
based on good science and engineering (which includes DATA).
Keep up the great work, Bob!!
For the record, my opinions are based on BS, MS, PhD from respectable
universities and 29 years experience in semiconductor engineering and
science with a major industrial laboratory and 50+ years of flying
Best regards and Happy New Year
Richard Dudley
RV-6A flying
Robert L. Nuckolls, III Airparts. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>>>
>>>
>> >The only concerns I might have for alternator "stress" at low rpm is
>>
>>
>>>cooling. This is hard to achieve on a Lycoming installation when you leave
>>>the small pulley in place. Even so, terms like "low rpm", "very high draw",
>>>"extra strain", "reducing total load", and "brief" are all
>>>
>>>
>>non-quantified terms
>>
>>
>>>having no value for advancing either understanding or increasing service
>>>life of the alternator.
>>>
>>>
>>I think it is hilarious that you are NOW writing Niagara Airparts, aka
>>Canadian Aero Manufacturing, to ask what they meant in their alternator
>>instructions. Its great you are asking, but you already have run your mouth.
>>You said its wrong and gives no insight or understanding into the physics.
>>Why start asking questions now? You attacked Vans, Blue Mountain
>>Avionics and Skytec with out asking for their opinion or clarification first.
>>
>>
>
> I'm pleased that you're enjoying it sir but I wonder if you
> truly understand the reason for the inquiry . . . and please
> note that the quotation of me was taken from something other
> than my letter to Niagara.
>
> I did talk to Van's . . . they could not offer any clarification.
> I never attacked Blue Mountain. Greg attacked me with words like:
>
> "I've seen so much truly atrocious work, much of it per Bob's book".
>
> When I asked him for clarification, over the course of several
> e-mails he refused to answer a single, direct and politely
> crafted question.
>
> Words SHOULD mean things. So one presumes that when the phrases
> I cited above were offered to expand a customer's understanding
> of the product offered, it's reasonable to ask for definitions.
> This is especially important when the words seem to imply
> weakness or fragility when compared to similar products.
>
> For example, suppose I offered you a new kit aircraft where I
> suggested: "Do not operate too slow lest you fall out of the sky,
> do not apply full control movements too fast lest you break something."
> Would you not be curious as to the numbers describing "too slow"
> and "too fast."
>
> I'm aware of no other manufacturer who has found value in suggesting
> that their alternator be "pampered" in any way. The astute consumer
> would want to know what's different between Niagara's products
> their competition . . . and further, what value the customer might
> get from observing the cautions.
>
> I'll make a wager with you. I'm willing to bet that the folks at
> Niagara have no basis in physics for the paragraph under discussion.
> We'll further deduce that putting such words in their product
> literature unfairly suggests a deficiency in their product's
> capabilities. We'll find that eliminating those words will make
> their customers feel better about the product and offer no real
> risks for making the decision to buy the product. What's your
> wager? What's your hypothesis as to the answers to my questions?
> I'll suggest that a discussion of alternator physics will be a lot
> more fun than trying to paint me as the dishonorable individual you
> seem to perceive.
>
>
>
>
>> You are entitled to your opinion and not lacking them by the way, but why
>>care what Niagara says now; it makes no difference, you are right, they are
>>wrong. Your ability to write is far superior to anyone, so it is
>>understandable
>>that it does not meet your standards. Why embarrass them with their
>>ignorance.
>>
>>
>
> I offered nothing in the way of an opinion to Niagra. I simply
> introduced myself and inquired as to further definition of their
> words. It's not polite to start a conversation with an argument
> when it's possible that they will come forward with perfectly
> good reasons for their words. If they have good reasons, I'll
> be delighted to understand the basis on which they're offered.
> That's how one learns new things. Wouldn't you agree? Are you
> not equally interested in their answer? Wouldn't it be really
> cool if I win my wager and Niagara's products can shed
> an unfair suggestion of reduced value?
>
>
>
>>>By way of introduction, I'm currently an electrical engineer
>>>for Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) in Wichita, KS.
>>>
>>>
>>Bob, you are not an engineer. You need to go to school and have a degree to
>>be an engineer. I dont care what your title is at Raytheon. You are not an
>>engineer and never will be. You are no doubt an excellent technician but you
>>are no engineer. It is like calling a garbage collector a sanitation
>>engineer,
>>the word engineer is there, but the can-thrower is no more an engineer than
>>you are a BSEE, MSEE or Ph.D EE. I dont care how well you work an
>>oscilloscope or solder iron that is not engineering.
>>
>>
>
> Please don't toss the ol' sop out about degrees.
> I've worked with many well degreed folks who cannot do
> 1/10th of what I do. A degree is simply a demonstration of
> your ability to learn and says nothing about your ability or
> willingness to apply what you've learned. I was blessed with many
> opportunities to learn on my job. You know nothing about how
> well I do anything and what my employers choose to call me and how
> they assign my tasks is their business.
>
> I've worked with some stellar folks and with some duds both
> in management and engineering. So what's new? Are you suggesting
> that ANY "real" EE could step in an take my job? Some could,
> most could not.
>
>
>
>> The title engineer is one of the most miss used and abused terms. The
>>American Medical Board would not allow anyone to put up a shingle and
>>call himself or herself a Medical Doctor, MD. However in this country
>>anyone can call themselves an engineer.
>>
>> As a licensed PE, with two engineering degrees I am offended by your
>>assertion you're an engineer, especially after your comments of contempt
>>and low esteem towards engineers.
>>
>>
>
> Only some engineers. Nature has provided us with the bell curve:
> a graphical presentation of gaussian distribution of traits in
> large populations. In the population of engineers, there are some
> that are very good and place high on the ordinate for capability
> but low in numbers compared to the whole. But for every exceptional
> individual, there must be a counter balancing individual who
> may wear the mantle but has never achieved stature in their
> craft. These too are small in number. Most are scattered along the
> curve in accordance with their skills, willingness to learn and
> opportunities to exercise their craft. I shouldn't have to explain
> that to an educated person but meanings you attribute to my words
> suggest that you don't understand this simple truth.
>
>
>
>> Bob you said you would rather hire a person from a community college
>>who knows his way around a workbench than an engineer. First I seriously
>>doubt you are in charge of hiring engineers.
>>
>>
>
> I have said no such thing. I've made note of the fact that
> my JC techs could all hit the ground running and the brightest
> and most motivated became invaluable employees . . . some went
> on to get higher degrees and are still invaluable employees. But
> as noted above, a degree does not an invaluable employee make.
> All of us have to perform in the marketplace and a degree guarantees
> nothing.
>
>
>
>>Second your ignorance is common of people who dont know the body of
>>knowledge which
>>encompasses engineering. You're like Cliff Calvin, the Postman on Cheers.
>>You know a few facts and throw around words with out understanding, like
>>failure mode analysis to impresses someone. LETS SEE YOUR FMA
>>ANALYSIS. LETS SEE YOUR DATA. What no data?
>>
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . first I'm compared with Fox News and now Cheers.
> I don't watch either. In fact I watch very little television.
> Therefore I'm at a loss to evaluate your similes.
>
> George, George . . . you claim to know so much about me
> but you keep offering opinions that do not agree with fact.
> May I suggest some good books might prove much more useful
> than television? Have you read any Thomas Sowell? Frederick Bastiat?
> Thomas Paine? Don't if or where these guys went to school and
> it doesn't matter. They write in simple ideas imminently understandable
> and of obvious value. My goal is to think and write like these
> men. What are your goals?
>
>
>> Your comment of how unnecessary math is speaks to your ignorance of
>>engineering. Engineers do not necessarily work on the bench. I am sure
>>you can regale us with stories of how incompetent engineers are and how
>>superior you are over those college boys.
>>
>>
>
> Gee, I'll have to think about that . . . no, I don't have
> any such stories. But I can tell you that in the aircraft business,
> the vast majority of degreed engineers have become paper-pushers.
> Their engineering knowledge brought with them out of school
> was never given an opportunity to be exercised and grow. . . use it
> or loose it. Unlike most of my contemporaries, I'm blessed with
> opportunities to learn something new every day. Aviation is
> singularly hard on engineers and offers only rare opportunities
> to excel.
>
>
>
>> Dumb engineers will live with
>>it, leaving the workbench to your Votech oscilloscope jockeys and solder
>>iron artist. I learned how to run a scope and solder iron when I was 13 years
>>old. It is a vocational skill not engineering Bob. Your just a little
>>delusional.
>>
>>
>
> The delusion is your's sir. You're welcome to come walk with me
> for a week and see what I do for a living . . .
>
> When did I ever speak to the uselessness of math? I cannot imagine
> where you get these ideas. I have a half dozen computers that I regularly
> program for various control tasks and analysis by calculation. I try
> to keep plenty of calculators laying around so that one is always at
> hand. I have one on my wrist! Now, when was the last time I was able
> to make use of any technique from say, chapter 13 of my Calculus text
> book? Never. That doesn't mean those disciplines are not useful to
> some individuals. Every engineer I've ever worked with has confirmed
> that in the hard-cold-cruel world of keeping happy customers coming back
> to buy your products, they've used but a tiny fraction of that which
> academia thought was important.
>
>
>
>>As a PE and with a MSME it is unacceptable if Raytheon capriciously calls
>>technical employees like yourself engineers, who do not hold a degree
>>
>>
>>from a college of engineering, accredited by ABET (American Board of
>
>
>>Engineering Technology).
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers) handles the licenser of
>>Professional Engineers (PE) and protects the profession from frauds, albeit
>>and apparently poorly. I hope the real engineers at Raytheon who hold
>>advanced degrees do not let technicians, such yourself hold the title of
>>engineer, and your letter to Niagara is just your normal smoke blowing
>>boastful self-importance display of grandioseness and pomposity.
>>
>>Does your stupid management know you write all kinds of negative
>>comments about management (them) and Raytheon? I need to sell my
>>Raytheon stock. It is up over $40 and I bought it at $30. Knowing how
>>disgruntled you are with management and how Raytheon does not appreciate
>>you Bob, I better sell my stock right now.
>>
>>
>
> I'd recommend that. If Raytheon would dump the aircraft albatross
> the corporate stock would probably run back up to $75. Now that
> the 4000 is close to certification, they'll probably continue their
> exercise in self-abuse somewhat longer. But short of a big shooting
> war I don't expect to see Raytheon stock do anything spectacular.
> Less than 1/4th of my retirement portfolio holds Raytheon. Just
> the humble opinion of an inside observer over the past 20 years.
> But please don't take my word for it. I bought all of my stock
> when it crashed from $75 to $18 a few years back . . . but it's been
> frustratingly static for a long time. My investment advisor cousin
> has suggested that I not buy any more . . . there are presently
> much better places to put your money.
>
>
>
>
>>I have my sell order in for Monday
>>morning. A thanks for the heads up on how screwed up Raytheon is. I know
>>how you feel, you being an Eagle its hard to soar with Turkeys. Things
>>would be so much better if you where running things I'm sure. Oh well.
>>
>> Your Buddy George, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767
>>
>> Happy New Years.
>>
>>
>
> My new year is starting off very nicely thank you. I'm sorry
> that your's is so burdened with unhappy thoughts borne out of
> ignorance about me and what appears to be a disregard for folks
> who choose to learn outside the hallowed halls of ivy. If universities
> were the only source for useful knowledge, there are many stellar
> minds in history that should never have achieved greatness.
> I'm saddened that you do not seem to understand or appreciate
> this fact.
>
> Your buddy Bob (a get-yer-hands-dirty imposter that draws the
> salary of an engineer and has thousands of
> happy customers).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
GPS is wonderful if you just remember the ole computer term
"GIGO". Garbage-In-Garbage-Out.
Dave Morris
At 06:52 AM 1/2/2006, you wrote:
>
>1/2/2005
>
>For all of us believers in the magic of GPS and modern avionics please read
>the below cautionary tale:
>
>http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/2003/A03F0114/A03F0114.asp
>
>My flight time over the ocean is not that great, but the terror that wells
>up when one has been out of sight of land for hours and is uncertain of
>their position is huge.
>
>Particularly note the diagram at the end of this article. Imagine the
>decision process / courage involved in making that greater than 270 degree
>turn to the right.
>
>OC
>
>PS: All pilots flying around IFR with out dated GPS data bases should read
>this article.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Airparts. |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Airparts.
>
>Greetings, Bob
>I am incredulous that anyone could be brash enough or ignorant enough to
>display his/her bigotry in a public forum as this person has. That one
>wears his list of titles on his sleeve thinking that the title
>"engineer" is only earned by someone with a degree.
>For the record, my opinions are based on BS, MS, PhD from respectable
>universities and 29 years experience in semiconductor engineering and
>science with a major industrial laboratory and 50+ years of flying
>
>Best regards and Happy New Year
>
>Richard Dudley
>RV-6A flying
Thank you for that endorsement and kind words. Personally,
I'd rather avoid labels of all kinds except to acknowledge
I'd like to be known as an honorable citizen of this great
country. I'd also strive to be known as a teacher; one who
helps assemble simple-ideas into useful systems where the
users enjoy real understanding of final result. In this
context we can all be teachers. Indeed, this is the core
purpose of activities like the AeroElectric-List. But as
the state of our school systems will attest, a degree does
not a teacher make . . .
I'll suggest that title is properly bestowed only by those
who understand its true significance and/or recognition of those
who have mastered the craft.
Fly comfortably.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III Airparts.
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts.
--> Airparts.
A thanks for the heads up on how screwed up Raytheon is. I
>know how you feel, you being an Eagle its hard to soar with Turkeys.
>Things would be so much better if you where running things I'm sure. Oh
>well.
>
> Your Buddy George, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767
>
> Happy New Years.
My new year is starting off very nicely thank you. I'm sorry
that your's is so burdened with unhappy thoughts borne out of
ignorance about me and what appears to be a disregard for folks
who choose to learn outside the hallowed halls of ivy. If universities
were the only source for useful knowledge, there are many stellar
minds in history that should never have achieved greatness.
I'm saddened that you do not seem to understand or appreciate
this fact.
Your buddy Bob (a get-yer-hands-dirty imposter that draws the
salary of an engineer and has thousands of
happy customers).
Hey, Bob: Pay George no mind. He clearly doesn't know how to read. His
thinking is equally muddled. But then, he is an Engineer. I suspect he is
bipolar. In a manic phase.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Hughes <richardhughes260(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Transponder Static on intercom |
I just installed a new intercom in my Cozy III.
I am getting some crackly static from the transponder
intermittently. (It goes away when I turn off the
transponder)
Do I need to run the groundplane for the antenna
directly to ground?
Should I have a shielded power wire to the
transponder? (Not sure if it is or not)
Any suggestions?
Patient: Doc it hurts when I do this
Doctor: Don't do that!
-Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
I think this guy george, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767 is out of
line.
I'm not an EE but play one when I'm at my hangar building my RV9. However I
am a dentist which I guess would qualify me as some type of engineer/tech.
Prior to building my RV I wired my friends Velocity RG XL using Bob's
suggestions. I don't give a rats A__ whether Bob is or is not an engineer.
It was my first attempt at wiring an airplane which now has three hundred
hours on it without a glitch in the electrical system. Furthermore, in years
past, on the rare occasion that I called bob for a question or
clarification, he always had time for me and was always gracious.
My two cents
Peter Laurence
RV9A N60PL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Redmon" <james(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Static on intercom |
Same thing initially happened in my Berkut. The source was the Microair
transponder (no longer installed), but not the RF...it was a bad ground on
the "music" input for the intercom. Be sure your phone, mic and input jacks
are insolated and are not "grounded" together on a metal plate.
My fix was to change from a metal mounting plate to one made of fiberglass.
Either case, disconnect everything so you get no noise, then add only one
thing back at a time to isolate where the noise is entering your audio
circuits.
If no inputs are the problem, run the intercom from a separate power source
(i.e. external battery) to make sure the noise is not slipping in from the
power system. If that's your problem, you can put a filter on the
intercom's power lead.
I'm sure you will get plenty of feedback on this method of trouble shooting.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
> I just installed a new intercom in my Cozy III.
>
> I am getting some crackly static from the transponder
> intermittently. (It goes away when I turn off the
> transponder)
>
> Do I need to run the groundplane for the antenna
> directly to ground?
>
> Should I have a shielded power wire to the
> transponder? (Not sure if it is or not)
>
> Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Airparts. |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Airparts.
>
>
>Hey, Bob: Pay George no mind. He clearly doesn't know how to read. His
>thinking is equally muddled. But then, he is an Engineer. I suspect he is
>bipolar. In a manic phase.
>
>Gordon Comfort
>N363GC
Gently, gently my friend. Let's leave those judgements
up to folks more qualified than us electron-herders. I've
learned that if one hands out enough line, you can
get a variety of results ranging from creative macram
to nice fishing nets. On the other hand, some folks just
get all tangled up in it. The outcomes are self evident
and require no special talents to judge usefulness of
the result.
By the way, how many hours do you have on that airplane?
By my reckoning you should have worn out the first engine
by now. You guys were going to come visit us. I just chased
family out of the guest room on their Christmas visit, you
and Marge are encouraged to use it at any time. Dee finished
her PhD last spring and has become civilized We'd love to
see you again.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> Airparts. |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Airparts.
>
>
> I think this guy george, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767 is out of
>line.
>I'm not an EE but play one when I'm at my hangar building my RV9. However I
>am a dentist which I guess would qualify me as some type of engineer/tech.
>Prior to building my RV I wired my friends Velocity RG XL using Bob's
>suggestions. I don't give a rats A__ whether Bob is or is not an engineer.
>It was my first attempt at wiring an airplane which now has three hundred
>hours on it without a glitch in the electrical system. Furthermore, in years
>past, on the rare occasion that I called bob for a question or
>clarification, he always had time for me and was always gracious.
>
>My two cents
>
>Peter Laurence
Good evening Peter. Long time no hear! Do I recall correctly
that you live in Florida . . . or perhaps S.Eastern US? We're
working on our 2006 seminar schedule and we need a S.E. venue.
Would love to visit your neck of the woods and get a look
at your project. Got an EAA chapter that would like to host
a presentation?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
Come on George ....get a life...........go fly your plane.............invent
something useful...........build a plane................or better yet take a
long trip to Bagdad....................
I Just Love my delete key.
Frank At SGU and SLC with BS, MS, MBA...............oh did I mention I slept
at a Holiday Inn..........
>From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts.
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:34:18 -0800 (PST)
>
>
> >From:
>"Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> >The only concerns I might have for alternator "stress" at low rpm is
> >cooling. This is hard to achieve on a Lycoming installation when you
>leave
> >the small pulley in place. Even so, terms like "low rpm", "very high
>draw",
> >"extra strain", "reducing total load", and "brief" are all non-quantified
>terms
> >having no value for advancing either understanding or increasing service
> >life of the alternator.
>
>I think it is hilarious that you are NOW writing Niagara Airparts, aka
>Canadian Aero Manufacturing, to ask what they meant in their alternator
>instructions. Its great you are asking, but you already have run your
>mouth.
>You said its wrong and gives no insight or understanding into the physics.
>Why start asking questions now? You attacked Vans, Blue Mountain
>Avionics and Skytec with out asking for their opinion or clarification
>first.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion and not lacking them by the way, but
>why
>care what Niagara says now; it makes no difference, you are right, they are
>wrong. Your ability to write is far superior to anyone, so it is
>understandable
>that it does not meet your standards. Why embarrass them with their
>ignorance.
>
> >By way of introduction, I'm currently an electrical engineer
> >for Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) in Wichita, KS.
>
>Bob, you are not an engineer. You need to go to school and have a degree to
>be an engineer. I dont care what your title is at Raytheon. You are not an
>engineer and never will be. You are no doubt an excellent technician but
>you
>are no engineer. It is like calling a garbage collector a sanitation
>engineer,
>the word engineer is there, but the can-thrower is no more an engineer than
>you are a BSEE, MSEE or Ph.D EE. I dont care how well you work an
>oscilloscope or solder iron that is not engineering.
>
> The title engineer is one of the most miss used and abused terms. The
>American Medical Board would not allow anyone to put up a shingle and
>call himself or herself a Medical Doctor, MD. However in this country
>anyone can call themselves an engineer.
>
> As a licensed PE, with two engineering degrees I am offended by your
>assertion you're an engineer, especially after your comments of contempt
>and low esteem towards engineers.
>
> Bob you said you would rather hire a person from a community college
>who knows his way around a workbench than an engineer. First I seriously
>doubt you are in charge of hiring engineers. Second your ignorance is
>common of people who dont know the body of knowledge which
>encompasses engineering. You're like Cliff Calvin, the Postman on Cheers.
>You know a few facts and throw around words with out understanding, like
>failure mode analysis to impresses someone. LETS SEE YOUR FMA
>ANALYSIS. LETS SEE YOUR DATA. What no data?
>
> Your comment of how unnecessary math is speaks to your ignorance of
>engineering. Engineers do not necessarily work on the bench. I am sure
>you can regale us with stories of how incompetent engineers are and how
>superior you are over those college boys. Dumb engineers will live with
>it, leaving the workbench to your Votech oscilloscope jockeys and solder
>iron artist. I learned how to run a scope and solder iron when I was 13
>years
>old. It is a vocational skill not engineering Bob. Your just a little
>delusional.
>
> As a PE and with a MSME it is unacceptable if Raytheon capriciously
>calls
>technical employees like yourself engineers, who do not hold a degree
>from a college of engineering, accredited by ABET (American Board of
>Engineering Technology).
>
> NSPE (National Society of Professional Engineers) handles the licenser
>of
>Professional Engineers (PE) and protects the profession from frauds, albeit
>and apparently poorly. I hope the real engineers at Raytheon who hold
>advanced degrees do not let technicians, such yourself hold the title of
>engineer, and your letter to Niagara is just your normal smoke blowing
>boastful self-importance display of grandioseness and pomposity.
>
> Does your stupid management know you write all kinds of negative
>comments about management (them) and Raytheon? I need to sell my
>Raytheon stock. It is up over $40 and I bought it at $30. Knowing how
>disgruntled you are with management and how Raytheon does not appreciate
>you Bob, I better sell my stock right now. I have my sell order in for
>Monday
>morning. A thanks for the heads up on how screwed up Raytheon is. I know
>how you feel, you being an Eagle its hard to soar with Turkeys. Things
>would be so much better if you where running things I'm sure. Oh well.
>
> Your Buddy George, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767
>
> Happy New Years.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
| From: | Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> |
Harley,
I don't know what to say. I have two such
compasses and both have the same type of lamp.
One has no markings and one is marked GE327.
Both are "miniature". Both are "flange based".
I was unable to get to "lamps" in Gyrohouse so
I cannot look them up or go any furthur.
Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
Rochester N.Y.
Do not achcive
writes:
>
>
> Larry...
>
> It appears you may have hit on something here.
>
> After your post, I rechecked, "GyroHouse" and they do indeed list
> the
> 334 as the 28 volt bulb for the Airpath Compass. But, on checking
> the
> configuration of the 334, it is a grooved base bulb...the 327
> (which is
> what you have) and the 330 are flanged bases.
>
> Looks like GyroHouse may be selling the wrong bulb for a 28 volt
> system.
>
> Harley
>
>
> Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Guy's
> >My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
> >as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
> >
> > I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
> >
> >
> >>bulb
> >>So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses,
> >>then repair parts) found the following:
> >>330 - 14V Light Bulb
> >><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
> >>14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
> >>Cat No: 330 $3.00
> >>334 - 28V Light Bulb
> >><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
> >>28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
> >>Cat No: 334
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
Hopefully near Ocala,
Harold...RV9A still working on the Fuselage..sslloooowwly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
I just checked the Grainger catalog and try 1C904.
It's aT1 3/4 SC mid flg, 14 V Aircraft, .08A @ $1.30
Harold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
Hi, Larry...
I agree with you. I think Gyrohouse made an error in their listing of
the one. They do list the 334 (grooved base) as the 28 volt bulb for the
airpath compass!
After it warmed up a bit today, I took a trip down to the hangar and
took a look at mine...it is indeed a flanged base socket...a grooved
base bulb MIGHT work, but it would probably not have dependable contact.
Of course, Airpath may have used one like that in another of their
models, but I doubt it. Looks like the flanged base bulb is the one to
use. 327 for 28 volt, and 330 for 14 volt.
A little off topic, but points out the printed errors that can occur is
in a book that my son gave me for Christmas. The Encyclopedia of Civil
Aircraft. Covers everything from DaVinci to Rutan....lists Rutan's
Voyager as having a range of 9,600 miles! It really was a miracle non
stop around-the-world flight!
>>I was unable to get to "lamps" in Gyrohouse so I cannot look them up
or go any furthur.<<
Here's where they list it...with the light socket.
www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item807.html
Harley
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>Harley,
> I don't know what to say. I have two such
>compasses and both have the same type of lamp.
>One has no markings and one is marked GE327.
>Both are "miniature". Both are "flange based".
>I was unable to get to "lamps" in Gyrohouse so
>I cannot look them up or go any furthur.
>Larry Mac Donald
>lm4(at)juno.com
>Rochester N.Y.
>Do not achcive
>
>
>writes:
>
>
>>
>>
>>Larry...
>>
>>It appears you may have hit on something here.
>>
>>After your post, I rechecked, "GyroHouse" and they do indeed list
>>the
>>334 as the 28 volt bulb for the Airpath Compass. But, on checking
>>the
>>configuration of the 334, it is a grooved base bulb...the 327
>>(which is
>>what you have) and the 330 are flanged bases.
>>
>>Looks like GyroHouse may be selling the wrong bulb for a 28 volt
>>system.
>>
>>Harley
>>
>>
>>Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Guy's
>>>My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
>>>as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
>>>
>>>I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>bulb
>>>>So...a bit of time with Google (searching for Airpath compasses,
>>>>then repair parts) found the following:
>>>>330 - 14V Light Bulb
>>>><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item602.html>
>>>>14V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Flange Base. .08 Amps
>>>>Cat No: 330 $3.00
>>>>334 - 28V Light Bulb
>>>><http://www.gyrohouse.com/catalog/items/item604.html>
>>>>28V Light Bulb - T 1-3/4 Midget Groove Base. .04 Amps
>>>>Cat No: 334
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Florida 2006 Seminar |
><PLaurence@the-beach.net>
>
>Bob,
>I'm in South Florida. EAA Chapter 133 which is in Pompano Florida. We have a
>few RV builders at present which I believe are all following you
>suggestions. I'll speak to the chapter president and see if we can set
>something up.
>
>Peter
Very good. I'd appreciate that. I think we're looking at
a september/october time frame.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Wickert <jimw_btg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
Peter
I agree with your comments, Bob has been a great help to many, many, many, builders.
With very sound advice....I would like to set this person straight.....ENGINEERS...
there is a tremendous number of people that are PE's (Stamp carrying Professional
Engineers) that are still setting the design path straight for many degreed
engineers. A large number of these PE's are not degreed engineers they
have tested out for their PE license and I can also show several degreed engineers
that can't get past the first bank of PE tests.
For me who is a card carrying PE for over 30 years, Bob has been as I said a great
help and a very dedicated person to this industry. Offering a great amount
of assistance and very accurate and prompt assistance to be exact at a cost
of nothing. I am sure George here if he had something to offer other than smart
remarks would also have a bill to follow because he is a degreed engineer?
I make my living as a contract engineering firm for 28 years, that has sold and
designed several in depth projects form the fiber optics market to the semiconductor
manufacturing process markets to designing and building a complete highly
Automated Factory for Skill Saw group. WE took this project from companies
like Lester B Knight who also tells you they have "Degreed Engineers".....in
the end the design wins.
I have 9 staff engineers. I do know what a real Engineer is and They are not specific
to a degree. I have an office in Europe with two of my nine engineers
resident and do a fair amount of work for Bosch, BMW and Porsche.
I find Bob a breath of fresh air for the Aviation industry. I think if this George
would be someone who had spent time on these forums he would not have made
such an A_ _ out of himself.
Enough said, thank you Bob for all your contribution. Please do not let one spoil
a great situation.
Jim Wickert
Vision Vair #159
Some have it Some do not!!!
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dr. Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org>
>Sent: Jan 2, 2006 3:15 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts.
>
>
> I think this guy george, CFI,II,MEI,ATP,CE500, B737, B757, B767 is out of
>line.
>I'm not an EE but play one when I'm at my hangar building my RV9. However I
>am a dentist which I guess would qualify me as some type of engineer/tech.
>Prior to building my RV I wired my friends Velocity RG XL using Bob's
>suggestions. I don't give a rats A__ whether Bob is or is not an engineer.
>It was my first attempt at wiring an airplane which now has three hundred
>hours on it without a glitch in the electrical system. Furthermore, in years
>past, on the rare occasion that I called bob for a question or
>clarification, he always had time for me and was always gracious.
>
>My two cents
>
>Peter Laurence
>RV9A N60PL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
| From: | Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> |
Harley,
Agreed. I just found the Grainger site and went
thru 9 pages of lamps. What I have is what the picture
shows. It looks like you "we" could use either the
GE382-14V-.08A-.3C @$1.26 or the
GE330-(aircraft)-14V-.08A-.5C @ $1.30. .2 more candeles
for only 4 cents more, AND it says aircraft on it.
Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
Rochester N.Y.
Do not achcive
writes:
>
Hi, Larry...
I agree with you. I think Gyrohouse made an error in their listing
> of the one. They do list the 334 (grooved base) as the 28 volt bulb for
> the airpath compass! After it warmed up a bit today, I took a trip
down to the hangar and took a look at mine...it is indeed a flanged
base socket...a grooved base bulb MIGHT work, but it would
probably not have dependable contact.
Of course, Airpath may have used one like that in another of their
> models, but I doubt it. Looks like the flanged base bulb is the one
> to use. 327 for 28 volt, and 330 for 14 volt.
A little off topic, but points out the printed errors that can occur
> is in a book that my son gave me for Christmas. The Encyclopedia of
> Civil Aircraft. Covers everything from DaVinci to Rutan....lists
Rutan's
> Voyager as having a range of 9,600 miles! It really was a miracle non
> stop around-the-world flight! I was unable to get to "lamps"
in Gyrohouse so I cannot look them up or go any furthur.<<
Here's where they list it...with the light socket.
> Harley
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
> >Harley,
> > I don't know what to say. I have two such
> >compasses and both have the same type of lamp.
> >One has no markings and one is marked GE327.
> >Both are "miniature". Both are "flange based".
> >I was unable to get to "lamps" in Gyrohouse so
> >I cannot look them up or go any furthur.
> >Larry Mac Donald
> >lm4(at)juno.com
> >Rochester N.Y.
> >>
LarryIt appears you may have hit on something here.
After your post, I rechecked, "GyroHouse" and they
do indeed list the 334 as the 28 volt bulb for the Airpath
Compass. But, on checking the configuration of the 334,
it is a grooved base bulb...the 327 (which is what you have)
and the 330 are flanged bases.Looks like GyroHouse may
be selling the wrong bulb for a 28 volt system.
Harley
> >>>Guy's
> >>>My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
> >>>as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
>I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
> >>>>bulb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulb and connector source. |
>>GE382<<
I like this one better for an additional reason....it has a life of
15,000 hours vs 4,000 for the 327!
Harley
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>Harley,
> Agreed. I just found the Grainger site and went
>thru 9 pages of lamps. What I have is what the picture
>shows. It looks like you "we" could use either the
>GE382-14V-.08A-.3C @$1.26 or the
>GE330-(aircraft)-14V-.08A-.5C @ $1.30. .2 more candeles
>for only 4 cents more, AND it says aircraft on it.
>Larry Mac Donald
>lm4(at)juno.com
>Rochester N.Y.
>Do not achcive
>
>
>writes:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
> Hi, Larry...
> I agree with you. I think Gyrohouse made an error in their listing
>
>
>>of the one. They do list the 334 (grooved base) as the 28 volt bulb for
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the airpath compass! After it warmed up a bit today, I took a trip
>>
>>
>down to the hangar and took a look at mine...it is indeed a flanged
>base socket...a grooved base bulb MIGHT work, but it would
>probably not have dependable contact.
> Of course, Airpath may have used one like that in another of their
>
>
>>models, but I doubt it. Looks like the flanged base bulb is the one
>>to use. 327 for 28 volt, and 330 for 14 volt.
>>
>>
> A little off topic, but points out the printed errors that can occur
>
>
>>is in a book that my son gave me for Christmas. The Encyclopedia of
>>Civil Aircraft. Covers everything from DaVinci to Rutan....lists
>>
>>
>Rutan's
>
>
>>Voyager as having a range of 9,600 miles! It really was a miracle non
>>stop around-the-world flight! I was unable to get to "lamps"
>>
>>
>in Gyrohouse so I cannot look them up or go any furthur.<<
> Here's where they list it...with the light socket.
>
>
>>Harley
>>
>>
> Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>
>>>Harley,
>>> I don't know what to say. I have two such
>>>compasses and both have the same type of lamp.
>>>One has no markings and one is marked GE327.
>>>Both are "miniature". Both are "flange based".
>>>I was unable to get to "lamps" in Gyrohouse so
>>>I cannot look them up or go any furthur.
>>>Larry Mac Donald
>>>lm4(at)juno.com
>>>Rochester N.Y.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>LarryIt appears you may have hit on something here.
>After your post, I rechecked, "GyroHouse" and they
>do indeed list the 334 as the 28 volt bulb for the Airpath
>Compass. But, on checking the configuration of the 334,
>it is a grooved base bulb...the 327 (which is what you have)
>and the 330 are flanged bases.Looks like GyroHouse may
>be selling the wrong bulb for a 28 volt system.
>Harley
>
>
>>>>>Guy's
>>>>>My Airpath ( pilots standby compass ) is placarded
>>>>>as a 28 volt system. The lamp in it is a 6e327.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>I'm in the same position you are...an airpath compass with no
>>
>>
>>>>>>bulb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Thank you Bob for the excellent retort to mr. "gmcjetpilot" or what ever
he is. I use the term mr. in lower case for the point. We appreciate
your help and education in our building and design of our OBAM aircraft.
I'm on my second build and will probably be my last. Time does that to
you. You were a big help on my first build and this time I bought your
book again as I 'used' the first one to much. I believe that its time to
ignore this person and his rant's. He is not wanted or needed on this
forum. What ever incite he may have are suspect at this point. By the
way, I to am not a degreed engineer but worked in the medical field
designing unique specific devices to produce polymers that is
hygroscopic. I hired "book" engineers when they looked promising but the
best idea people were usually non degreed people. The degree in our
field was only a means of finding people who were possibly intelligent
enough to grasp our products and help us get it to market. Many thanks
again
Jim Nelson
RV9-A (into the canopy--)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
Thanks Peter,
When & If Bob gets a seminar going, I suspect I'll be making a long drive.
Harold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
hi all,
laying out my panel and i have my intercom right next to my turn coor. am i asking
for noise from the turn coor.? if so, how far should i move the intercom?
thanks in advance,
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: We must really be bored... was Copy of my letter |
to Niagara Airparts.
My guess is that he flys for GM corporate, probably couldn't make the grade
in engineerig.
Hope he's a better pilot than agitator.
Maybe he was hired by some of the people at the top who helped put GM where
it is today.
Harold
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Copy of my letter to Niagara Airparts. |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Isn't it against state law in a lot of states to use the title "Engineer"
if one is not a registered PE in that state? I believe this is the case
here in NC.
Cheers,
John Schroeder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: We must really be bored... was Copy of my letter |
to Ni...
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Let's try to lead by example, and live by the golden rule (though I am not
religeous, nor am intending to imply any religeousity - merely
practicality)..
Best regards,
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
> hi all,
> laying out my panel and i have my intercom right next to my turn coor.
> am i asking for noise from the turn coor.? if so, how far should i move
> the intercom? thanks in advance,
>
>bob noffs
There is no standard proscription for co-locating
accessories on your panel. In the TC aircraft world
we've been able to depend on recommendations of
DO-160/Mil-Std-704 and cousins to predict a long,
prosperous and neighborly relationship between the
ships various accessories.
I presume your concerns arise from the numbers
of past threads where folks have had problems with
certain brands of turn coordinator. Know that not
all turn coordinators are the same and the majority
will happily co-exist on a panel with other accessories.
If your thinking about using one of the "bad boys"
with a history of problems, know that there are two
major propagation modes for noise from these devices:
(1) magnetic coupling - easily broken with a two-
or three layer wrap of galvanized sheet metal
(roof flashing) around the case. This can be
a long strip wrapped around the instrument and
held in place with tie-wraps.
(2) RFI noise coupled out the wiring at the back
of the instrument. It may be as simple as adding
a filter capacitor or may take a combination of
capacitor and inductor to stop off the noise.
Both of these fixes can and should be installed later
and only after you know that they're necessary. Bottom
line is that I'd really hate to see you shuffle your
panel appearance and utility to mitigate concerns
for a situation that's best dealt with after the
rest of the wiring and installation is completed.
Have you considered one of the new, solid state
rate gyros out there? Much more reliable and in the
long run, probably lower cost of ownership.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Accessory load monitoring |
>
>Howdy A-list!
>
>I know this is nothing electric, but that's part of what makes it so cool.
>It worked out so well I just thought I'd share with the rest of y'all!
>
>http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7883
>
>Click on the fotos for a better view and >>Next Entry>> to the next two pages
>for the "how-to". Lemme know if ya got any ?s.
Pretty neat . . . and imaginative! Thanks for sharing this.
There are some electronic ways to detect electrical integrity
of various loads too. One of the simplest is illustrated at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/CurrentSense.jpg
You can buy the contact capsule for a reed relay or
switch from various sources. I believe Radio Shack
sells them still. It takes some experimentation to size
the excitation coil with the load. It takes more turns
to detect say a 2A nav light than it does to monitor
a 100W landing light or pitot tube.
A schematic of an exemplar installation is shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DeIce/Pitot_Heat.pdf
This technique is used in many of our TC aircraft to
make sure that when an accessory is ON, that it is also
drawing current. We use them on pitot heaters and electric
windshields. They could just as easily be applied to any
remotely located but not easily observed load like light
bulbs. Many automobiles use electronic voltage/current
detectors to warn drivers of burned out lamps. At one
time I considered an article on applying one of the modern
voltage/load detector chips . . . but abandoned the idea
in favor of the reed relay technique. The chip was
pretty neat but required some etched circuit boards
and assembly techniques not common to the OBAM aircraft
builder's stock and trade. The custom reed relays are
simple and just as effective.
Sometimes the best way to drive a nail is with a hammer.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Key Switch - single mag |
>
>Can someone tell me how to wire a standard key switch (L,R,BOTH,START) for a
>single mag? I have a separate switch for a single plasma III ignition. The
>single left mag is has impulse coupling and I start with the mag only and
>the elec. ign off.
Wire it just like you had two mags . . . except nothing is
connected to the right mag terminal.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Switch Washers/ugly hole |
I always put anti-rotation washers on the back side. If your switch
panel includes an engraved overlay, then holes in the panel for the
tab holes can go all the way through . . . and tabs on washers trimmed
to insure they are flush or under-flush to the panel surface. If your
panel plans don't include an engraved overlay, then consider a rear shim of
sheet metal drilled for the anti-rotation tabs . . . the instrument
panel surface stays clean. Again, you may have to trim the anti-rotation tabs
a bit. I would avoid any kind of gluing operation for this installation
except maybe to hold the rear shim in place . . . a couple of spots of
Sho-Goo works good.
Bob . . .
>
>Another way is to forget the washer and put a dab of RTV on the back/side of
>the switch after it's tight.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Switch Washers/ugly hole
>
>
>I have a suggestion that works for me and wanted to pass it on to the list.
>I did not want to drill a 1/8" hole above the Switch hole for cosmetic
>reasons. What I suggest is to sharpen to a small point the part of the
>washer that is against the back of your panel with just enough of a point to
>press into the back of the panel. This will keep all things from turning and
>you won't have the exposed hole. I used carbon fibre sheet for the panel and
>it works fine, should work with any other material also.
>
>Ron Triano
>
>http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Breaker v. Fuse
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >...snip...
> > >My question is this. If I use 18 awg wire
> > >with a 10 amp fuse from the power bus up to the 5 amp circuit breaker,
> > >will the 5 amp breaker trip before the 10 amp fuse blows in the event of
> > >a dead short in the wire, such as from a Crowbar OV Module?
> >
> > >I do not want the fuse at the power bus to blow before the circuit
> > >breaker pops,
> >
> >The expectation is that a smaller CB is faster than a bigger one. But be
> >very careful. You could be wrong.
> >
> > >Somewhere, I read that fuses react faster than circuit breakers, so I am
> > >asking how many more amps does the fuse have to carry
> > >before I can be sure that it will not blow before the 5 amp CB pops.
> >
> >In general, fuses depend on thermal heating to break and this has some time
> >lags. Circuit breakes usually do too, but breakers can be magnetic or
> >electronic and can operate at any speed.
> >
> > >the alternator cannot be reset in flight from a nuisance trip.
> >
> >Google " AeroElectric nuisance OR false trips " then decide.
> >
> > >Any advice will be appreciated.
> >
> >My advice is don't use a crowbar, then none of this will be an issue.
>
> How is this useful? I did Google the phrases you suggested
> and got the full dump of most of the threads on the topic
> that were posted on this list server.
>
> There has never been an argument that some combinations of
> the AeroElectric/B&C ov protection systems needed tweaking.
> Much has been made of a handful of individuals who CLAIM to
> have had a lot of trouble but declined to take us up on our
> 100% satisfaction guarantee for refund on materials unsuited
> to the buyer's wants/needs.
>
> I made an offer right here on the list to refund the purchase
> price of any crowbar ov product purchased from me along with
> a bonus of $50. Gee, you'd think that at least one unhappy
> customer would come forward to claim his $85 prize. I spent
> hours of research for hard data to back up the engineering
> choices on our product and received nothing back but blue
> smoke and mud balls.
>
> Nothing is mentioned about failures in the Van's alternator
> installations being just as susceptible to the load-dump
> damage irrespective of what type of ov protection is offered . . .
> but lots of inferences that figure Z-24 was the root cause
> of the failures and was to be avoided. I note that
> Niagra Airparts is offering an ov protection system for their
> 40A alternator installation. See:
>
>http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ASP101-PIT%201.pdf
>
> Hmmmm . . . amazing similar to Z-24 . . . do you suppose that
> an owner/builder could blow up his alternator with this
> system too?
>
> Nothing is said in these threads or other on-line discussions
> about the thousands of systems flying for nearly 20 years in
> OBAM aircraft and now probably over 1000 systems flying in
> type certificated aircraft. The only words speaking to our
> demonstrated willingness to fix what ever problems do arise
> came from myself. I only wish some of the multi$kilo$
> systems I wrestle with on bizjets had so high a field
> service record as the crowbar ov system we've sold to GA
> light aircraft.
>
> If you're suggesting that a prudent buying decision can
> be made based on the search terms you've suggested . . .
> well . . . the dearth of logic in this advice is self
> evident. You've ridden this horse to death sir. Give it
> up.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Use Of Diode on S704-1 Relay |
>
>Hi Bob,
>On Diagram z-32 you show a diode between the coil wires on the S704
>relay. On Z-13/8 the S704 that is used in the alternate alternator
>circuit has an OVM-14 but no diiode. Will you explain why there is no
>diode present in one circuit and there is one present in the other? Does
>the OVM-14 negate the need for the diode? Thanks. Don
Good question. There's no reason not to treat
the relay installation you've cited like all the
rest. I'm not real sure how the crowbar module
contributes to the negative spike mitigation . . .
I'll have to go measure that. However, if you'd
like to include a diode on the relay, here's a way
to get it installed.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704inst.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Better List Conduct...Practical Matters.... |
Guys....
All this stuff looks like a yellow sh*t storm to me. I actually take some
iconoclastic guilty pleasure from seeing George lambaste Bob, and Bob recite
his experience and around and around it goes.
The college I went to tossed me out with a degree when they discovered that
my barely post-pubescent head was a full as they could stuff it. A degree,
like a pilot's certificate is only a license to learn more stuff. Pity the
graduate or the pilot who stops learning...and there are many.
I actually (at times) do measure people by their degrees, but I make
distinctions between Eastern US versus Western US versus European and every
kind and type of farm college, military, technical school and people who
have tattoos. But it's a waste of time.
My New Year's Wishes:
I would like to see personalities kept out of the discussion. I would like
to see Bob N. not waste his time defending himself (his good works are
plentifully abundant and apparent). I would like to see AeroElectric Listers
eschew invective, and refrain from personal attacks OR personal adoration
(except for obituaries perhaps). If we have to see Bob's resume one more
time perhaps we should post OUR resumes. Then what a bore we all will be.
Personalities should never be the issue here. We are all good and bad some
times.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"The problem with the world is that only the intelligent people want to be
smarter, and only the good people want to improve."
- Eolake Stobblehouse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Switch Washers/ugly hole |
> I always put anti-rotation washers on the back side. If your switch
> panel includes an engraved overlay, then holes in the panel for the
> tab holes can go all the way through . . . and tabs on washers trimmed
> to insure they are flush or under-flush to the panel surface. If your
> panel plans don't include an engraved overlay, then consider a rear shim
> of
> sheet metal drilled for the anti-rotation tabs . . . the instrument
> panel surface stays clean. Again, you may have to trim the anti-rotation
> tabs
> a bit. I would avoid any kind of gluing operation for this installation
> except maybe to hold the rear shim in place . . . a couple of spots of
> Sho-Goo works good.
>
> Bob . . .
You took the words out of my mouth. Except there's no need to hold the rear
shim in place if it serves more than one switch...it will be held and have
its own anti-rotation feature by virtue of being held by multiple switches.
See here:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030615_switch_backing_plate.jpg
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030615_drilling_switch_holes.jpg
Yes, those photos show the plate on the front of the panel, but it installs
on the rear:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030701_switch_alignment_plate.jpg
Sorry, those are crummy photos from my old camera, but you get the point.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (756 hours since 3/27/04)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
Comments/Questions: Bob: I want a top notch Coaxial stripper for RG 400.
What do you suggest? Have a good New Year. John
Here's my personal favorite. I stock these to give
away as part of the door prize pool at my seminars.
http://www.gilchrist-electric.com/3-blade-coax-cable-strip.html
You can purchase these off Ebay or directly from Gilchrist.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Edwards" <gary21sn(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Light Monitors |
Mark,
Good info about your wingtip indicators. Thanks.
I have a similar system in my LNC2 Lancair that I installed in the mid '90's (first
flight 3/99).
The fiber optics, three from each wing tip, one each for navigation, strobes, and
tail lights, are routed thru each wing electrical conduit to a small indicator
face on the lower area of the instrument panel. The small face on the instrument
panel has small colored lenses for the nav. lights and clear lenses for
the strobes and tail lights. The optic fiber ends in the wing tips are actually
mounted inside each light fixture hence the reason for the colored lenses
on the panel.
I had a '70 Corvette and a '78 Seville that both utilized fiber optics. So I figured
it ought to work on the Lancair.
An early test in a friends hanger using his RV, with me under a blanket looking
straight into the end of a fiber when he turned on his strobes, was very convincing.
It worked better than I had anticipated. It was so bright, I couldn't
see for several minutes. I ended up removing the lenses in the panel display
and dulling the back side of them with sand paper to tone down the brightness.
So far, this simple wing tip light indicator system has been trouble free. I will
install the same system when I begin construction of a Lancair Legacy.
Gary Edwards
LNC2 N21SN
Medford, Oregon
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com<mailto:Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Wingtip Light Monitors
Howdy A-list!
I know this is nothing electric, but that's part of what makes it so cool.
It worked out so well I just thought I'd share with the rest of y'all!
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?qlog_entry&log_id7883>
Click on the fotos for a better view and >>Next Entry>> to the next two pages
for the "how-to". Lemme know if ya got any ?s.
Happy 2 double-oh 6 to all!
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
>
>I use TurboCAD v.7, for all kinds of designing and what-iffing. The
>software will import common AutoCAD formats (.dxf, .dwg) and converts its
>native format to these as well. I'm not an engineer, and I found
>TurboCAD's learning curve easy to negotiate as a total CAD novice. It came
>with a large library of electrical symbols or you can roll your own of
>anything you can dream up. You can "group" individual components so that
>they act like one entity (for moving, coloring, etc.) or you can "explode"
>an entity so that you can modify an individual component. I find it all
>easy to do. The program is a full blown 3-D CAD program and I've seen 3-D
>renderings that accomplished users have done and they are truly amazing,
>but I've never had a need to go there. The program is several versions
>down the road from v. 7 by now, but I will not even approach the
>capabilities of v.7 in my lifetime. I paid about $60-70 for mine, but v.
>10.2 is advertised on-line for $49.
>v 9.2 for $19.95.
For the early days of aeroelectric.com, I attempted to keep
all posted AutoCAD drawings in version 12 formats so that a
variety of freeware and shareware cad programs (also posted on
the website) would open, edit, save and print the drawings
I generated.
More recently, I had to forego the time it took to maintain
the growing list of drawings and I dropped that service.
I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
If the tests prove successful, I'll post the results along
with a recommendation for its use with files you can download
from aeroelectric.com (including the complete symbol library
and wirebooks in progress). For those interested in generating
nice drawings for their diagrams, more than half the work is
already done.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
A while back (at university, actually), I used a software package from
Express PCB which did PCB layouts, including autorouting. I see they now
have packaged the PCB software with schematic layout. Has anyone else
looked at it. I haven't run the PCB software in 9 years, by from my
recollection, it was pretty slick. I may test drive this stuff (for
schematics) when I get home.
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>I use TurboCAD v.7, for all kinds of designing and what-iffing. The
>> software will import common AutoCAD formats (.dxf, .dwg) and converts
>> its native format to these as well. I'm not an engineer, and I found
>> TurboCAD's learning curve easy to negotiate as a total CAD novice. It
>> came with a large library of electrical symbols or you can roll your
>> own of anything you can dream up. You can "group" individual
>> components so that they act like one entity (for moving, coloring,
>> etc.) or you can "explode" an entity so that you can modify an
>> individual component. I find it all easy to do. The program is a full
>> blown 3-D CAD program and I've seen 3-D renderings that accomplished
>> users have done and they are truly amazing, but I've never had a need
>> to go there. The program is several versions down the road from v. 7
>> by now, but I will not even approach the capabilities of v.7 in my
>> lifetime. I paid about $60-70 for mine, but v. 10.2 is advertised
>> on-line for $49.
>>v 9.2 for $19.95.
>
> For the early days of aeroelectric.com, I attempted to keep
> all posted AutoCAD drawings in version 12 formats so that a
> variety of freeware and shareware cad programs (also posted on
> the website) would open, edit, save and print the drawings
> I generated.
>
> More recently, I had to forego the time it took to maintain
> the growing list of drawings and I dropped that service.
>
> I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
> than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
> ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
> test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
>
> If the tests prove successful, I'll post the results along
> with a recommendation for its use with files you can download
> from aeroelectric.com (including the complete symbol library
> and wirebooks in progress). For those interested in generating
> nice drawings for their diagrams, more than half the work is
> already done.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
>
>A while back (at university, actually), I used a software package from
>Express PCB which did PCB layouts, including autorouting. I see they now
>have packaged the PCB software with schematic layout. Has anyone else
>looked at it. I haven't run the PCB software in 9 years, by from my
>recollection, it was pretty slick. I may test drive this stuff (for
>schematics) when I get home.
>
>http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
Let me know what you think. I have this software. I use
ExpressPCB for 90% of our production ECB needs. the schematic
module is tailored to interface with their ECB layout
module as a schematic capture feature. I wasn't impressed with
their symbol library or final appearance of the drawings . . .
but then it was never intended as a publishing or illustration
tool. Accordingly, the supplied symbols are for board-level
components and one would have to generate a whole new library
for system level components.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
> than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
> ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
> test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
>
> If the tests prove successful, I'll post the results along
> with a recommendation for its use with files you can download
> from aeroelectric.com (including the complete symbol library
> and wirebooks in progress). For those interested in generating
> nice drawings for their diagrams, more than half the work is
> already done.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
I have successfully used TurboCAD (versions 8 and 10) to import and use
.dwg files from your website. I've also picked up and used .dwg files
from other sites too, again without any problems. I did change some
text styles, line widths and shading/cross hatching to suite my own
drawing style, but the basic geometry import was good. TurboCAD can
read and write several other formats other than its own native .tcw
files. The ones of most interest to CAD users are probably .dwg
(AutoCAD) and .dxf (Drawing eXchange Format).
TurboCAD is published by IMSI: http://www.imsisoft.com/
I am using it for the panel mechanical layout and electrical system
design. No financial interest in the company, just a satisfied user.
Steve
RV-6A builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
>
>Bob,
>
>I have successfully used TurboCAD (versions 8 and 10) to import and use
>.dwg files from your website. I've also picked up and used .dwg files
>from other sites too, again without any problems. I did change some
>text styles, line widths and shading/cross hatching to suite my own
>drawing style, but the basic geometry import was good. TurboCAD can
>read and write several other formats other than its own native .tcw
>files. The ones of most interest to CAD users are probably .dwg
>(AutoCAD) and .dxf (Drawing eXchange Format).
>
>TurboCAD is published by IMSI: http://www.imsisoft.com/
>
>I am using it for the panel mechanical layout and electrical system
>design. No financial interest in the company, just a satisfied user.
Very good! Thank you for that input. There you go folks. $22 for a
"real" CAD program and megabytes of plug-n-nearly-play work product.
The guy advertising V10 on Ebay seems to have a lot of them. Goto
http://ebay.com and search on 7208329279
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Close Proximity Air2Air Comm problem (HELP!) |
Hi Mark
FWIW, could you hook up and try using a hand-held radio to see how it
would work during formation. If it works OK you might consider a #2
hand-held comm instead of spending $ on the Microair.
George in Langley BC
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Howdy all-
>
>After another frustrating couple of occasions trying to communicate with
>fellow formators I MUST come up with some solution to this problem. Recap-
>whenever closer than 300' (MOL) to other planes, transmissions from other planes
are
>typically very garbled & unreadable on my Microair 760.
>
>
snip------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
Has anyone tried or used DesignWorks Lite? It is a circuit
documentation program. The link is:
http://www.capilano.com/html/dwml.html
They have a version for both Mac and Windows and is free for 30 days,
then $40 to register. I'd like to hear comments from anyone who
might have used it.
On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
> than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
> ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
> test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
Steve Thomas
SteveT.Net
steve(at)stevet.net
805-569-0336 Office
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
After installing and trying many different ones and throwing them all out,
I finally found DesignWorks Lite from Capilano Computing for $39.95. I
bought it a few years ago and have never looked back. It works intuitively
the way a CAD program should. You can design your own components if the
switch or relay or gadget you need doesn't exist in one of their libraries.
Here's a schematic I did with it:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/N75UP-Schematic-June2005.pdf
Here's their web site: http://www.capilano.com/
I highly recommend it for ease of use in drawing schematics. They have a
free trial. I think it's better than any of the other options I've heard
people mention so far.
Dave Morris
At 10:04 PM 12/29/2005, you wrote:
>
>Hi all ...
>How many OBAM electricians have used the PC based software to draw their
>wiring diagrams?
>I'm interested in finding out what you have found and reccomend, don't
>recomend, like alot or any comments about they are easy to use or not easy.
>Or is all the PC based stuff a waste of time?
>I see some on ebay, new ones, outdated programs, cheap and not one bidder
>... why is that?
>Any help appreciated ... thanks alot,
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Ken,
Do you have the p/n for the white on clear tape? I couldn't find it on
the site given below. My panel is dark grey and white on clear would
work great.
Mark
Don't forget my favourite "white on clear tape"
Looks good on my gray panel although the idea of doing more complex
printer graphics in interesting.
Ken
Craig Payne wrote:
>
>As a side note the labeling products like the Brother P-touch line
offer
>white-on-black tapes:
>
>http://www.brothermall.com/accessory_detail.asp?mscssid=8C857699C5A5478
88C58
>CEF27C70BD68&sku=TZ335&dept_id=167
>
>Tapes of all colors are available in widths up to 3/4". The labelers
can
>"stack" lines across the width of the tape.
>
>Other color combinations offered are black-on-clear, black-on-white,
>red-on-white, gold-on-black and black-on-yellow.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices are
the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&CtgID=&
Rnd=227
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark R
Steitle
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
Ken,
Do you have the p/n for the white on clear tape? I couldn't find it on the
site given below. My panel is dark grey and white on clear would work
great.
Mark
Don't forget my favourite "white on clear tape"
Looks good on my gray panel although the idea of doing more complex printer
graphics in interesting.
Ken
Craig Payne wrote:
>
>As a side note the labeling products like the Brother P-touch line
offer
>white-on-black tapes:
>
>http://www.brothermall.com/accessory_detail.asp?mscssid=8C857699C5A5478
88C58
>CEF27C70BD68&sku=TZ335&dept_id=167
>
>Tapes of all colors are available in widths up to 3/4". The labelers
can
>"stack" lines across the width of the tape.
>
>Other color combinations offered are black-on-clear, black-on-white,
>red-on-white, gold-on-black and black-on-yellow.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle(at)hq.inclinesoftworks.com> |
I don't see where SL12 goes from the crowbar. Is it supposed to be
SL-5? There must be a breaker somewhere that kills the dynamo.
SL-9 also is a dangling label. I assume there is a switch to ground to
serve as the battery master. Sounds like you open that switch to kill
the right main bus, then close the E-Bus feed. Seems like a DPDT might
work better - up for normal, down for e-bus, center for OFF. (simpler
pilot workload).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Morris "BigD"
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring Diagrams Design Software
After installing and trying many different ones and throwing them all
out,
I finally found DesignWorks Lite from Capilano Computing for $39.95. I
bought it a few years ago and have never looked back. It works
intuitively
the way a CAD program should. You can design your own components if the
switch or relay or gadget you need doesn't exist in one of their
libraries.
Here's a schematic I did with it:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/N75UP-Schematic-
June2005.pdf
Here's their web site: http://www.capilano.com/
I highly recommend it for ease of use in drawing schematics. They have
a
free trial. I think it's better than any of the other options I've
heard
people mention so far.
Dave Morris
At 10:04 PM 12/29/2005, you wrote:
>
>Hi all ...
>How many OBAM electricians have used the PC based software to draw
their
>wiring diagrams?
>I'm interested in finding out what you have found and reccomend, don't
>recomend, like alot or any comments about they are easy to use or not
easy.
>Or is all the PC based stuff a waste of time?
>I see some on ebay, new ones, outdated programs, cheap and not one
bidder
>... why is that?
>Any help appreciated ... thanks alot,
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
Sweet!
$16. for v10 plus $7. to mail to Canada which means no additional tax or
brokerage and he takes VISA!
And it looks an upgrade to v10.2 is available off the IMSI site.
The A9cad freeware also views the Z figures just fine although I never
figured out how to "connect" wires to terminals.
I really like the Excel method but symbol building is slow and a bit
flakey on my version .
thanks Bob and Steve
Ken
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>I have successfully used TurboCAD (versions 8 and 10) to import and use
>>.dwg files from your website. I've also picked up and used .dwg files
>>
>>
>>from other sites too, again without any problems. I did change some
>
>
>>text styles, line widths and shading/cross hatching to suite my own
>>drawing style, but the basic geometry import was good. TurboCAD can
>>read and write several other formats other than its own native .tcw
>>files. The ones of most interest to CAD users are probably .dwg
>>(AutoCAD) and .dxf (Drawing eXchange Format).
>>
>>TurboCAD is published by IMSI: http://www.imsisoft.com/
>>
>>I am using it for the panel mechanical layout and electrical system
>>design. No financial interest in the company, just a satisfied user.
>>
>>
>
> Very good! Thank you for that input. There you go folks. $22 for a
> "real" CAD program and megabytes of plug-n-nearly-play work product.
>
> The guy advertising V10 on Ebay seems to have a lot of them. Goto
> http://ebay.com and search on 7208329279
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Slaughter" <willslau(at)alumni.rice.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
I've had very good luck with QuickCad, which has now been acquired by
AutoCad. It was about $100 at CompUSA, probably available cheaper
online. I've imported and manipulated the dwg files without problems.
William Slaughter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software
-->
>-->
>
>I use TurboCAD v.7, for all kinds of designing and what-iffing. The
>software will import common AutoCAD formats (.dxf, .dwg) and converts
its
>native format to these as well. I'm not an engineer, and I found
>TurboCAD's learning curve easy to negotiate as a total CAD novice. It
came
>with a large library of electrical symbols or you can roll your own of
>anything you can dream up. You can "group" individual components so
that
>they act like one entity (for moving, coloring, etc.) or you can
"explode"
>an entity so that you can modify an individual component. I find it all
>easy to do. The program is a full blown 3-D CAD program and I've seen
3-D
>renderings that accomplished users have done and they are truly
amazing,
>but I've never had a need to go there. The program is several versions
>down the road from v. 7 by now, but I will not even approach the
>capabilities of v.7 in my lifetime. I paid about $60-70 for mine, but
v.
>10.2 is advertised on-line for $49.
>v 9.2 for $19.95.
For the early days of aeroelectric.com, I attempted to keep
all posted AutoCAD drawings in version 12 formats so that a
variety of freeware and shareware cad programs (also posted on
the website) would open, edit, save and print the drawings
I generated.
More recently, I had to forego the time it took to maintain
the growing list of drawings and I dropped that service.
I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
If the tests prove successful, I'll post the results along
with a recommendation for its use with files you can download
from aeroelectric.com (including the complete symbol library
and wirebooks in progress). For those interested in generating
nice drawings for their diagrams, more than half the work is
already done.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Heat sink for Schottky diode |
Listers,
Someone asked about a source for a heat sink for the Schottky diodes sold
by Eric Jones of Perihelion Design. RV builder Scott Chastain turned me on
to a nice heat sink made specifically for this diode. Scott told me he got
his from Radio Shack. I got mine from Mouser Electronics. It's part number
567-680-125A This heat sink is made by Wakefield Thermal Solutions.
You can find it here
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&handler=data.listcategory&D=*567680125A*&terms=567-680-125A&Ntt=*567680125A*&Dk=1&Ns=SField&N=0&crc=true
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
hi bob,
want to thank you for the input regarding turn coor. noise showing up in my intercom.
i already own the turn coor. so that is what i will work with. you are
right, i have a great layout for my panel and now am encouraged to go with
it as is and if i am unlucky i will deal with a fix then.
bob
noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Heat sink for Schottky diode |
Slightly backwards. The "TO-3" transistor case has existed for decades. The
diode sold by Eric was designed to use the same footprint as a TO-3 case.
*Any* heat sink designed for a TO-3 case will (by design) work with the
diode. Unfortunately the only heat sinks I can find on Radio Shack's web
site are for the TO-220 case which is quite different from the TO-3 case.
Digikey certainly has heat sinks for the TO-3 footprint. Go to the link
below to see 51 matches for "heat sink to-3":
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=346699&Site=U
S&Cat=32506655
The other question is if you desire to electrically isolate the diode's
"back" from the heat sink. This is only needed for large heat sinks. A small
heat sink can easily be mechanically supported by the screws which fastens
the diode to the heat sink. In a larger heat sink you either electrically
isolate the heat sink from the main chassis or (better) isolate the chip's
case from the heat sink. The second approach leaves less exposed metal
around with a voltage on it.
Electrical isolation is done with thin plates placed between the chip and
the heat sink. In the old days the plate was mica. Heat sink "grease" is
used to ensure a good thermal bond between all the layers. There are newer
insulators that don't require the grease. If you are using metal nuts and
screws to bolt the chip down then you need special non-conducting shoulder
washers to keep the nuts and screws from forming electrical contact between
the chip's case and the heat sink.
That is more than you ever wanted to know about heat sinks. I will stop
rambling now.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
Kuss
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Heat sink for Schottky diode
-->
Listers,
Someone asked about a source for a heat sink for the Schottky diodes sold
by Eric Jones of Perihelion Design. RV builder Scott Chastain turned me on
to a nice heat sink made specifically for this diode. Scott told me he got
his from Radio Shack. I got mine from Mouser Electronics. It's part number
567-680-125A This heat sink is made by Wakefield Thermal Solutions.
You can find it here
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&handler=data.listcategory&D=*567680125A*&te
rms=567-680-125A&Ntt=*567680125A*&Dk=1&Ns=SField&N=0&crc=true
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Duplicitous Copy of my letter to Niagara |
The whole NIAGARA letter is really a thinly valid attempt to discredit the
company, not a quest for knowledge or understanding. To be honest I find
you writing the competition and posing as a Quote: Hobbyist, to be of
questionable ethics, since you are associated with B&C.
WHY? Why do you care? Is an ego thing with you? Give it a break!!
FOLKS THESE ARE BOBS WORDS:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Failures.pdf
*For years and since day-one of my participation in B&Cs development
and marketing of alternators, we have preached the doctrine of externally
regulated alternators. Examples of this philosophy are found though out
early writings and particularly in chapters on alternators in the Connection.
A simple inspection of B&Cs offerings from the beginning will show that
only externally regulated alternators are offered.*
WORDS like in the beginning and Doctrine sounds like the Bible. Bob I
think has a complex. Bob goes on to offer up foggy ANECDOTES,
which is nothing but sensational propaganda with NO FACTS!!!. This is very
unlike an engineer. Facts not anecdotes. This is the word according to BOB
and all shall agree or be attacked by the PARADIGM, what ever he means
by paradigm.
You are being duplicitous when you write Niagara and do not identify
yourself as a B&C associate. You have NO desire to learn from Niagara
and only want to mock them. No matter what their reply is you will nit
pick, attack and criticize, which you already did anyway.
Leave Niagara out of it. WE GET IT. THE WORDS ARE NOT
Precise. You could write it much better. OK, You win.
STICK TO B&C and internally regulated alternators and just leave the
internal regulated alternators and Niagara alone.
FYI: By the way JIM does not work at Niagara anymore, he was a
consultant. No doubt a dumb engineer. The owner is in Florida for the
winter, give them a call, I did. No I dont work for them and have no
affiliation what so ever except I have one of their great alternator kits.
HE SAID HE'S WAS AN ENGINEER LETS LYNCH HIM!!!!!
First I NEVER mentioned my degrees to put BOB down. I only
mentioned it because BOB was making up stuff a while back and coming
off as an engineer. I thought Bob was and engineer. As an engineer I was
MYSTIFIED that Bob said what he did, so I asked, Bob do you have a
degree in engineering. He said no and that he didnt think much of
Engineers!!!!!!! End of story. But now he is saying he is an engineer. GO
FIGURE. I have dealt with mechanics and electricians before, 1000s of
times, and most of the time it is mutual respect, but on occasion you run
into geniuses like Bob who know everything. Really he does.
I have HUGE respect for most of what Bob has done for the experimental
community. Sure some one with out a degree could apply engineering
principles, advanced math to problem solve and invent, but with out the
judgment combined with the education the results could be in great error.
This is where Bob gets in trouble by the way. He knows just enough to get
in trouble.
Bob is arrogant to tell off people with more experience & education
while refusing to admit his lack of understanding. Adding insult, Bob
throws out a bunch of big sound engineering words (incorrectly). I am not
talking about me BTW. Bob gets into pissing matches with everyone in the
industry and respects NO one (that disagrees) and assumes you're (in his
words) IGNORANT.
Now what is my problem? The problem I have with Bob is he demeans the
profession of engineering, implies that math (advanced math) is not useful
and that some how Votech grads are on par with those of MIT or any other
full university. This is just stupid and child like. May be Raytheon is not the
place to work and they have a hard time getting people to work there?
It kind of makes me mad. It takes 5 full years of a very demanding
curriculum to get a Bachelor degree in engineering. People who drop out
and cant hack it are the ones who are bitter. Bob says he could not go to
college because he had a family? Sound like a good excuse. I choose not
to have a family till later and suffer 5 years of poverty as a starving college
student. I was poor and worked in a shipyard as fitter for 1.5 years to pay
for school and continued to work throughout my undergrad work as a buss
boy, waiter and mechanic. I paid for 100% of my education, graduating on
the deans list. A 1year assoc degree in what ever does not compare.
Anyone who drops out of school and than ridicules people with degrees is a
petty person. I don't think Bob said that but a few of you did, and you know
who you are and should be ashamed of yourself.
In typical hypocritical fashion on one hand Bob puts down engineers in
general and than adapts or co-ops the title of Engineer. Bob claims to have
used engineering analysis, but miss uses engineering terms and concepts all
the time. When pointed out Bob goes into arrogant attack mode. When
asked for the data he never responds, while demanding PROOF from all
others. This is extremely frustrating. When cornered Bob uses words like
paradigm and Failure Effects Analysis. OK, wow impressive! What does
that mean Bob? Heard that at a meeting once? Lets see your FEA
analysis/data. Your audience is smart enough to understand it, lets see it.
I DON'T WANT TO PLAY, I'M TAKING MY BALL HOME
When Van made the statement on his site they would not warranty the
alternators he sold if an OV module was used; Bob acted like a child.
Bob: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING INTERNAL REGULATED
ALTERNATORS ANY MORE!!! AND TAKING THEM OUT OF MY
BOOK NEXT REVISION. (In retaliation he makes this edict!!! Like Van
gives a damn what he thinks. They sell 1000s of their alternators and so
does Niagara, who has sold I-VR ND alternators for almost 10 years
with NO RETURNS or problems.)
This reminded me of a child taking his ball because he is mad and does not
want to play anymore. Go and take your Book and recommendations and be
done with it. WE GET IT. DONT USE INTERNALLY REGULATED
ALTERNATORS. The thing that kills you Bob is people dont listen to your
every word. I am afraid to say but there will be more I-VR alternators flying
with out Bobs blessing. DONT TELL ME THE FAA WILL NOT certify
an I-VR. I dont care. First we fly experimental aircrarft second The FAA
will not certify Bobs hidden fuse box either, so I am good company.
For those who follow the word according to Bob, fine, I think that is
GREAT!! You will have good results, heavy, complicated results, but good
results. Like all system designers they loose the big picture. The plane has
to fly and weight, cost, build time are all factors.
STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW
If Bob would just stick to basic DC circuits (class 101) and the Doctrine,
use externally regulated alternators with crow bars. If you avoid implying
your engineering credentials, ability to do engineering analysis to support
your claims, I would be happy.
75% of your rap is opinion, not fact, which is fine. The other 25% is ......
That is all. Bob, be the teacher of basic DC circuits 101. Also promote
the use of B&C products, your BOOK and external regulated alternators
ONLY. Just be consistant and stop with the smoke and mirrors.
The only problem with external regulated alternators are there are NONE
available**, while there are fantastic ND alternators with internal VRs to
be had, which work well. You on the other had have single handily spread
more rumors and innuendos about I-VR than anyone on the web, while
bold face saying, WHO ME, no I support internal regulation, some of my
customers have them. READ your own words (doctrine from the beginning)
Bob. You don't support I-VR, or do you? MAKE YOUR MIND UP.
** B&C is out of their minds with what they charge.
I dont care if Bob has a degree; you cant do much damage with DC power
distribution circuits, since this was figured out 150 years ago (battery-wire-
switch-wire-light-ground). Anything he has wrote has been said before, but
agree his book is very useful text for amateur aircraft builders, even if there
is nothing new there. The crow bar by the way has been done before, which
Bob admits. The B&C voltage regulator is just the same old same old $10
VR in a $250 package with a crow bar.
That is all I have to say about Niagara and Bob.
PS the only reason Niagara offers an OV module it because people who
listen to Bob ask for it. To please customers they offer this certified device
add on, which cost a fortune. Their recommendation is NOT to use an OV
module and they dont sell many OV modules. If you want a crow-bar or
OV module consider using an externally regulated alternator, that is what
the OV modules are for. Adding the OV module on top of a ND alternator
with an I-VR is adding weight, parts and complexity at best, potentially
asking for problems when the I-VR clashes with the OV module at worse.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
Wow, nice flame job. I had my nomex and asbestos underwear on and still
my short curly hairs got singed. It was more flame than the Space Shuttle
on re-entry.
For those with all the personal attacks and conjecture about me, that says
more about you than I. Its no doubt typical you run your mouth with out
knowing any facts. Ironic and hypocritical you do what you claim of me.
LOL
Let me just say I have no desire to defend myself from stupid attacks with
zero merit, but I will say although I fly for a living now, I get several
unsolicited calls a year for engineering consulting work, all over the US,
Europe, Asia and South America. My last full engineering contract was
about 8 years ago, earning me about $150,000, to sign off a B767 freighter
modification. It pays to go to school. hahaha So say what you want, I am
laughing my way to the bank.
Let me explain what a PE (professional engineer) is. First the PE license is
really only for engineers in Public works, like buildings and bridges. States
require the PE license to sign off drawings for public works. Also it is true
you can get a PE (professional Engineer license) with out a degree. You do
that by first taking the EIT exam (Engineer in Training) and having work
experience. Than take the PE eaxm. Chances of passing the exams with out
schoolwork, is low. This is like Law school and being a Lawyer. You don't
need to go to law school to be a lawyer; you only need to pass the Bar
exam, but without school the chance of passing is nil. Also the chance a
corporation or law firm will hire you as a Lawyer, with out the sheepskin, is
slim.
However in aerospace, working for a corporation a PE license is NOT
needed, common or required, but large corporations with out exception do
require a degree in engineering to be hired as an engineer. I only got a PE
because I do aerospace consulting as an individual, outside the corporate
umbrella. In fact what ever Bob does at Raytheon is not directly related to
final approval of the engineering definition of a component. An engineer
signs off what ever Bob does, one with a degree and likely a DER
(designated engineer representative). A DER is assigned by the FAA to
act on their behalf. Bob is not a DER and if he was it would be an oddity.
What is an engineer? Let me give you an aerospace example, but this is
similar to building a bridge, dam, road or skyscraper. The B777 was
designed by engineers: Mechanical, structural, electrical, chemical,
aerodynamics, metallurgical, materials, textile, manufacturing and process
engineers. How do they do their job? By and large the application of
advance mathematics, science and engineering principles. Of course FAR's
are involved.
The structural engineer uses FEM, finite element analysis. The
Aerodynamisist uses CFD, computational fluid dynamics/wind tunnel. This
requires very math intensive calculations. The electrical engineer? Well
look power distribution systems are OLD news; the leading edge is in
digital controls and fly by wire. The ART of AC or DC power distribution
has not changed much since the B707. OK. You don't need to be an
engineer to figure out a DC or AC system, I will admit.
However the electrical engineers are using advance mathematics and a large
body of knowledge in digital control and feed back to innovate and develop
new technologies, not just rehashing the same old principles. Obviously the
EFIS, FMC (Flt management computers), INS (inertial nav system) and fly
by wire technologies come to mind; however these are not really new
anymore.
What and where will the next innovations come from? ENGINEERS.
Chance is it will not be a kid from a Votech school that knows the bench as
Bob says. OK. Not a put down just a fact. We need to admire the academic
achievement and not scorn and ridicule it. I find the people who do this are
ones who could not cut it in school or are just plan ignorant. Not everyone
can be a self made man like Bob, no doubt he is much smarter than I am and
most Engineers or manager at Raytheon.
When I was in the field or factory, I worked with 100's of mechanics and
electricians (spark chasers as they like to be called) and have huge respect
and a great relation with most, but some should not have been within 100
yard of a dog house much less a jet aircraft or spacecraft.
Look the engineers who invented the solid state transistors where college
(MIT) educated. The level of technology we are at in the world now requires
advanced degrees, agree or not, that is my opinion. The sad fact is bone
heads that discount the value of education is one reason the US is loosing the
lead in the world.
Now not everyone needs to invent the transistor. Look at Bob, he has not
invented anything. Everything, including the crow bar, been done before, but
he did put it all in a book, which is handy. Not having a degree takes nothing
away from that. The technical guys who comes up with applications that use
transistors are also clever and needed just as much at the inventor of the
transistor itself, but to achieve breakthroughs requires technical chops and
education. We will not achieve technical lead in the world thru the Votech's.
I hope that clears up what an engineer is. I understand the average person
does not grasp what an engineer is because of the level of math and science.
Think of engineers as problem solvers or practical physicist/scientist for
society. Engineers are involved in almost every product you touch every
day from toaster, car, TV to a package at the grocery store and the machine
that packed it. Engineers are more than the wiring in your homebuilt.
Bob is a special case and his vast experience working on planes is a great
education equivalent to and much better than a degree. OK I said it Bob's
great long live the king. Buy his book go to his class you will learn.
Geeeeeeee
Cheers George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Duplicitous Copy of my letter to Niagara |
Vvvvvvvvvvv joke vvvvvvvvvvv joke vvvvvvvvvvvv joke vvvvvvvvvvv joke
vvvvvvvvvvvv joke
By God, he's right! Bob has a hidden agenda, he's in it for the money. No
wonder he spends a good chunk of the day answering questions on this list.
He is trying to steer business to a company that he has no financial
interest in! No, wait B&C is just a front for (wait for it) Bob! I've been
so blind.
joke
joke
joke
joke
joke
It's a joke, can't be to careful the days.
By the way, GM - what's on your agenda? (not a joke)
-- GM masquerading as Bob masquerading as Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Niagara Airparts Alternator study. |
>
>
>The whole NIAGARA letter is really a thinly valid attempt to discredit the
>company, not a quest for knowledge or understanding. To be honest I find
>you writing the competition and posing as a Quote: Hobbyist, to be of
>questionable ethics, since you are associated with B&C.
I have received no fees for service from B&C in over 10 years . . .
My last design task for them was the SB-1 regulator. They
are my friends. I have considerable knowledge of their products
and customer relations policies but no business relationship
other than the fact that they are one of 4 dealers for my book.
>
>WHY? Why do you care? Is an ego thing with you? Give it a break!!
>
Nope. The internally regulated alternator is here to stay.
99.99% of the time, they work as intended. In their off-the-shelf
configuration, they are difficult to integrate into aircraft under
the old design goals. It's my task to figure out a way to
make them work under these goals. Some folks are happy with
the IR alternator as-offered by Vans and others . . . and
if they're happy with their supplier/consumer relationship
then that's great.
>
> STICK TO B&C and internally regulated alternators and just leave the
>internal regulated alternators and Niagara alone.
Why do you choose to ignore my words indicating my goal
of elevating the stature of Niagara's products to a level
equal to or better than their competitors? If the words
in their installation manual can be eliminated without
risk to the reliability of their product, then I'll suggest
it's a good thing to do. Suppose I sold you a lawn mower
and placarded the thing to not operate above 80% throttle
or to use special gasoline when my competitors had no such
restrictions? How motivated would you be to purchase my
product?
Please hear this my friend. It is not and never will be
a behavior of mine to detract from stature of anyone's
product as long as it meets the specs on their sales
literature. In this case, I believe Niagara is unnecessarily
denigrating their own product. I'd be pleased to help them
correct this condition.
>
> FYI: By the way JIM does not work at Niagara anymore, he was a
>consultant. No doubt a dumb engineer. The owner is in Florida for the
>winter, give them a call, I did. No I dont work for them and have no
>affiliation what so ever except I have one of their great alternator kits.
>
Good info. Thank you. If I don't hear from Niagara in a week or
so, I'll call them too. How many fences do I have to mend with them
because you called them first?
>
>When Van made the statement on his site they would not warranty the
>alternators he sold if an OV module was used; Bob acted like a child.
>
> Bob: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING INTERNAL REGULATED
>ALTERNATORS ANY MORE!!! AND TAKING THEM OUT OF MY
>BOOK NEXT REVISION.
Again, you misquoted me . . .
. . . . I took Z-24 out of the book. It proved to be an incomplete
consistent with contemporary design goals. Z-24 WILL go back into the
book after I've satisfied myself that I have a usable risk-free
technique. The figure came out precisely because Van's thought it violated
their warranty position and because I had some questions to
address about it's goof-proofness before I could re-instate it.
> (In retaliation he makes this edict!!! Like Van
>gives a damn what he thinks. They sell 1000s of their alternators and so
>does Niagara, who has sold I-VR ND alternators for almost 10 years
>with NO RETURNS or problems.)
Let's say FEW problems. We have credible reports of IR alternators
suffering regulation failure of one kind or another causing
batteries to puff up and panel equipment to smoke. Their products,
like everyone else's products are perhaps .01% short of 100%
failure proof . . . just enough risk to suggest to some folks
that ov protection and positive, risk-free control under all
conditions is a good thing to do.
>
>That is all I have to say about Niagara and Bob.
>
>PS the only reason Niagara offers an OV module it because people who
>listen to Bob ask for it. To please customers they offer this certified
>device
>add on, which cost a fortune. Their recommendation is NOT to use an OV
>module and they dont sell many OV modules. If you want a crow-bar or
>OV module consider using an externally regulated alternator, that is what
>the OV modules are for. Adding the OV module on top of a ND alternator
>with an I-VR is adding weight, parts and complexity at best, potentially
>asking for problems when the I-VR clashes with the OV module at worse.
If a customer installs the OV protection system cited on
their Niagara's website, does it violate their warranty?
The only reason I published my letter in the first place
was to illustrate responsible behavior both as a supplier
and consumer in a free market. I introduced myself, asked some
simple and specific questions to explore the science behind
words in their sales literature. I ended the letter with
words of praise and encouragement for their participation
in fastest growing segment of GA. The letter was not threatening,
belligerent or a cover for some subversive goal. You've
turned it into something entirely different. I can only
assume that since you called them, you've chosen to inject
yourself into my conversation with them. You seem to
know more about Niagara than I do. Can you offer any
answers to my questions?
George, you imply much, infer much and deduce the wrong
things from words I've written. You go further to attack
me personally when to my knowledge, nobody has provoked
you. You're making far to much of this topic and the outcome
of these studies and conversations will show how much of
what you've written is incorrect. Why not wait until the
dust settles on the Niagara thing before you wade in with
the ax swinging? You've rendered a verdict before the
jury was sent out with all the data. Your invectiveness
is a distraction from the very real and useful task before
us.
As an engineer and with customers standing outside the door,
what are your recommendations for implementing positive,
any-time, any-conditions control over an IR alternator
consistent with design goals achieved by contemporary
certified aircraft? This is not a debate as to our
recommendations for implementing the technique. Nor is
it a debate about whether or not OV protection is warranted.
You said Niagara offered the OV protection because customers
asked for it. 100% of certified ships have it. No doubt some
folks in the OBAM aircraft community want it and are willing
to pay for it. The customers are there. They're waving credit
cards. How would you suggest we address their desire? You
suggest I'm unqualified to be a serious designer for such
goals. Okay, what are your recommendations?
I wish I had more time to spend on this. The science is
interesting and value to the OBAM aircraft community will
be significant. The IR alternator has done well so far
and will do BETTER. Why not HELP the OBAM aircraft community
by concentrating on that task? The solutions are simple-ideas
that will stand on their own merits whether embraced by
the exalted academic or lowly bench technician.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark C. Milgrom" <milgrom(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Niagara Airparts Alternator study. |
Bob, please, stop defending yourself. Just stop. You don't NEED to
defend yourself, and your replies simply add more fuel to George's
raging fire. Let's just ignore George, and hopefully he will flame out.
Bob, your experience and your credentials were established a long time
ago with us. You don't need to defend yourself anymore.
Mark Milgrom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Duplicitous Copy of my letter to Niagara |
delete
don't archive
>From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: The Duplicitous Copy of my letter to
>Niagara
>Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:17:21 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>
> The whole NIAGARA letter is really a thinly valid attempt to
>discredit the
>company, not a quest for knowledge or understanding. To be honest I find
>you writing the competition and posing as a Quote: Hobbyist, to be of
>questionable ethics, since you are associated with B&C.
>
>WHY? Why do you care? Is an ego thing with you? Give it a break!!
>
> FOLKS THESE ARE BOBS WORDS:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Failures.pdf
>
> *For years and since day-one of my participation in B&Cs development
>and marketing of alternators, we have preached the doctrine of externally
>regulated alternators. Examples of this philosophy are found though out
>early writings and particularly in chapters on alternators in the
>Connection.
>A simple inspection of B&Cs offerings from the beginning will show that
>only externally regulated alternators are offered.*
>
> WORDS like in the beginning and Doctrine sounds like the Bible. Bob I
>think has a complex. Bob goes on to offer up foggy ANECDOTES,
>which is nothing but sensational propaganda with NO FACTS!!!. This is very
>unlike an engineer. Facts not anecdotes. This is the word according to BOB
>and all shall agree or be attacked by the PARADIGM, what ever he means
>by paradigm.
>
> You are being duplicitous when you write Niagara and do not identify
>yourself as a B&C associate. You have NO desire to learn from Niagara
>and only want to mock them. No matter what their reply is you will nit
>pick, attack and criticize, which you already did anyway.
>
> Leave Niagara out of it. WE GET IT. THE WORDS ARE NOT
>Precise. You could write it much better. OK, You win.
>
> STICK TO B&C and internally regulated alternators and just leave the
>internal regulated alternators and Niagara alone.
>
> FYI: By the way JIM does not work at Niagara anymore, he was a
>consultant. No doubt a dumb engineer. The owner is in Florida for the
>winter, give them a call, I did. No I dont work for them and have no
>affiliation what so ever except I have one of their great alternator kits.
>
>HE SAID HE'S WAS AN ENGINEER LETS LYNCH HIM!!!!!
>
>First I NEVER mentioned my degrees to put BOB down. I only
>mentioned it because BOB was making up stuff a while back and coming
>off as an engineer. I thought Bob was and engineer. As an engineer I was
>MYSTIFIED that Bob said what he did, so I asked, Bob do you have a
>degree in engineering. He said no and that he didnt think much of
>Engineers!!!!!!! End of story. But now he is saying he is an engineer. GO
>FIGURE. I have dealt with mechanics and electricians before, 1000s of
>times, and most of the time it is mutual respect, but on occasion you run
>into geniuses like Bob who know everything. Really he does.
>
>I have HUGE respect for most of what Bob has done for the experimental
>community. Sure some one with out a degree could apply engineering
>principles, advanced math to problem solve and invent, but with out the
>judgment combined with the education the results could be in great error.
>This is where Bob gets in trouble by the way. He knows just enough to get
>in trouble.
>
>Bob is arrogant to tell off people with more experience & education
>while refusing to admit his lack of understanding. Adding insult, Bob
>throws out a bunch of big sound engineering words (incorrectly). I am not
>talking about me BTW. Bob gets into pissing matches with everyone in the
>industry and respects NO one (that disagrees) and assumes you're (in his
>words) IGNORANT.
>
> Now what is my problem? The problem I have with Bob is he demeans the
>profession of engineering, implies that math (advanced math) is not useful
>and that some how Votech grads are on par with those of MIT or any other
>full university. This is just stupid and child like. May be Raytheon is not
>the
>place to work and they have a hard time getting people to work there?
>
> It kind of makes me mad. It takes 5 full years of a very demanding
>curriculum to get a Bachelor degree in engineering. People who drop out
>and cant hack it are the ones who are bitter. Bob says he could not go to
>college because he had a family? Sound like a good excuse. I choose not
>to have a family till later and suffer 5 years of poverty as a starving
>college
>student. I was poor and worked in a shipyard as fitter for 1.5 years to pay
>for school and continued to work throughout my undergrad work as a buss
>boy, waiter and mechanic. I paid for 100% of my education, graduating on
>the deans list. A 1year assoc degree in what ever does not compare.
>
>Anyone who drops out of school and than ridicules people with degrees is a
>petty person. I don't think Bob said that but a few of you did, and you
>know
>who you are and should be ashamed of yourself.
>
> In typical hypocritical fashion on one hand Bob puts down engineers in
>general and than adapts or co-ops the title of Engineer. Bob claims to have
>used engineering analysis, but miss uses engineering terms and concepts all
>the time. When pointed out Bob goes into arrogant attack mode. When
>asked for the data he never responds, while demanding PROOF from all
>others. This is extremely frustrating. When cornered Bob uses words like
>paradigm and Failure Effects Analysis. OK, wow impressive! What does
>that mean Bob? Heard that at a meeting once? Lets see your FEA
>analysis/data. Your audience is smart enough to understand it, lets see it.
>
>
>I DON'T WANT TO PLAY, I'M TAKING MY BALL HOME
>
>When Van made the statement on his site they would not warranty the
>alternators he sold if an OV module was used; Bob acted like a child.
>
> Bob: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING INTERNAL REGULATED
>ALTERNATORS ANY MORE!!! AND TAKING THEM OUT OF MY
>BOOK NEXT REVISION. (In retaliation he makes this edict!!! Like Van
>gives a damn what he thinks. They sell 1000s of their alternators and so
>does Niagara, who has sold I-VR ND alternators for almost 10 years
>with NO RETURNS or problems.)
>
> This reminded me of a child taking his ball because he is mad and does
>not
>want to play anymore. Go and take your Book and recommendations and be
>done with it. WE GET IT. DONT USE INTERNALLY REGULATED
>ALTERNATORS. The thing that kills you Bob is people dont listen to your
>every word. I am afraid to say but there will be more I-VR alternators
>flying
>with out Bobs blessing. DONT TELL ME THE FAA WILL NOT certify
>an I-VR. I dont care. First we fly experimental aircrarft second The FAA
>will not certify Bobs hidden fuse box either, so I am good company.
>
>For those who follow the word according to Bob, fine, I think that is
>GREAT!! You will have good results, heavy, complicated results, but good
>results. Like all system designers they loose the big picture. The plane
>has
>to fly and weight, cost, build time are all factors.
>
>
>STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW
>
> If Bob would just stick to basic DC circuits (class 101) and the
>Doctrine,
>use externally regulated alternators with crow bars. If you avoid implying
>your engineering credentials, ability to do engineering analysis to support
>your claims, I would be happy.
>
> 75% of your rap is opinion, not fact, which is fine. The other 25% is
>......
>
> That is all. Bob, be the teacher of basic DC circuits 101. Also promote
>the use of B&C products, your BOOK and external regulated alternators
>ONLY. Just be consistant and stop with the smoke and mirrors.
>
>The only problem with external regulated alternators are there are NONE
>available**, while there are fantastic ND alternators with internal VRs to
>be had, which work well. You on the other had have single handily spread
>more rumors and innuendos about I-VR than anyone on the web, while
>bold face saying, WHO ME, no I support internal regulation, some of my
>customers have them. READ your own words (doctrine from the beginning)
>Bob. You don't support I-VR, or do you? MAKE YOUR MIND UP.
>
>** B&C is out of their minds with what they charge.
>
> I dont care if Bob has a degree; you cant do much damage with DC power
>distribution circuits, since this was figured out 150 years ago
>(battery-wire-
>switch-wire-light-ground). Anything he has wrote has been said before, but
>agree his book is very useful text for amateur aircraft builders, even if
>there
>is nothing new there. The crow bar by the way has been done before, which
>Bob admits. The B&C voltage regulator is just the same old same old $10
>VR in a $250 package with a crow bar.
>
>That is all I have to say about Niagara and Bob.
>
>PS the only reason Niagara offers an OV module it because people who
>listen to Bob ask for it. To please customers they offer this certified
>device
>add on, which cost a fortune. Their recommendation is NOT to use an OV
>module and they dont sell many OV modules. If you want a crow-bar or
>OV module consider using an externally regulated alternator, that is what
>the OV modules are for. Adding the OV module on top of a ND alternator
>with an I-VR is adding weight, parts and complexity at best, potentially
>asking for problems when the I-VR clashes with the OV module at worse.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
delete
don't archive
>From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To: AeroElectric-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology
>Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:24:01 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
> Wow, nice flame job. I had my nomex and asbestos underwear on and
>still
>my short curly hairs got singed. It was more flame than the Space Shuttle
>on re-entry.
>
>
>For those with all the personal attacks and conjecture about me, that says
>more about you than I. Its no doubt typical you run your mouth with out
>knowing any facts. Ironic and hypocritical you do what you claim of me.
>LOL
>
>
>Let me just say I have no desire to defend myself from stupid attacks with
>zero merit, but I will say although I fly for a living now, I get several
>unsolicited calls a year for engineering consulting work, all over the US,
>Europe, Asia and South America. My last full engineering contract was
>about 8 years ago, earning me about $150,000, to sign off a B767 freighter
>modification. It pays to go to school. hahaha So say what you want, I am
>laughing my way to the bank.
>
>
>Let me explain what a PE (professional engineer) is. First the PE license
>is
>really only for engineers in Public works, like buildings and bridges.
>States
>require the PE license to sign off drawings for public works. Also it is
>true
>you can get a PE (professional Engineer license) with out a degree. You do
>that by first taking the EIT exam (Engineer in Training) and having work
>experience. Than take the PE eaxm. Chances of passing the exams with out
>schoolwork, is low. This is like Law school and being a Lawyer. You don't
>need to go to law school to be a lawyer; you only need to pass the Bar
>exam, but without school the chance of passing is nil. Also the chance a
>corporation or law firm will hire you as a Lawyer, with out the sheepskin,
>is
>slim.
>
>
>However in aerospace, working for a corporation a PE license is NOT
>needed, common or required, but large corporations with out exception do
>require a degree in engineering to be hired as an engineer. I only got a PE
>because I do aerospace consulting as an individual, outside the corporate
>umbrella. In fact what ever Bob does at Raytheon is not directly related to
>final approval of the engineering definition of a component. An engineer
>signs off what ever Bob does, one with a degree and likely a DER
>(designated engineer representative). A DER is assigned by the FAA to
>act on their behalf. Bob is not a DER and if he was it would be an oddity.
>
>
>What is an engineer? Let me give you an aerospace example, but this is
>similar to building a bridge, dam, road or skyscraper. The B777 was
>designed by engineers: Mechanical, structural, electrical, chemical,
>aerodynamics, metallurgical, materials, textile, manufacturing and process
>engineers. How do they do their job? By and large the application of
>advance mathematics, science and engineering principles. Of course FAR's
>are involved.
>
>
>The structural engineer uses FEM, finite element analysis. The
>Aerodynamisist uses CFD, computational fluid dynamics/wind tunnel. This
>requires very math intensive calculations. The electrical engineer? Well
>look power distribution systems are OLD news; the leading edge is in
>digital controls and fly by wire. The ART of AC or DC power distribution
>has not changed much since the B707. OK. You don't need to be an
>engineer to figure out a DC or AC system, I will admit.
>
>
>However the electrical engineers are using advance mathematics and a large
>body of knowledge in digital control and feed back to innovate and develop
>new technologies, not just rehashing the same old principles. Obviously the
>EFIS, FMC (Flt management computers), INS (inertial nav system) and fly
>by wire technologies come to mind; however these are not really new
>anymore.
>
>
>What and where will the next innovations come from? ENGINEERS.
>Chance is it will not be a kid from a Votech school that knows the bench as
>Bob says. OK. Not a put down just a fact. We need to admire the academic
>achievement and not scorn and ridicule it. I find the people who do this
>are
>ones who could not cut it in school or are just plan ignorant. Not everyone
>can be a self made man like Bob, no doubt he is much smarter than I am and
>most Engineers or manager at Raytheon.
>
>
>When I was in the field or factory, I worked with 100's of mechanics and
>electricians (spark chasers as they like to be called) and have huge
>respect
>and a great relation with most, but some should not have been within 100
>yard of a dog house much less a jet aircraft or spacecraft.
>
>
>Look the engineers who invented the solid state transistors where college
>(MIT) educated. The level of technology we are at in the world now requires
>advanced degrees, agree or not, that is my opinion. The sad fact is bone
>heads that discount the value of education is one reason the US is loosing
>the
>lead in the world.
>
>
>Now not everyone needs to invent the transistor. Look at Bob, he has not
>invented anything. Everything, including the crow bar, been done before,
>but
>he did put it all in a book, which is handy. Not having a degree takes
>nothing
>away from that. The technical guys who comes up with applications that use
>transistors are also clever and needed just as much at the inventor of the
>transistor itself, but to achieve breakthroughs requires technical chops
>and
>education. We will not achieve technical lead in the world thru the
>Votech's.
>
>
>I hope that clears up what an engineer is. I understand the average person
>does not grasp what an engineer is because of the level of math and
>science.
>Think of engineers as problem solvers or practical physicist/scientist for
>society. Engineers are involved in almost every product you touch every
>day from toaster, car, TV to a package at the grocery store and the machine
>that packed it. Engineers are more than the wiring in your homebuilt.
>
>
>Bob is a special case and his vast experience working on planes is a great
>education equivalent to and much better than a degree. OK I said it Bob's
>great long live the king. Buy his book go to his class you will learn.
>Geeeeeeee
>
>Cheers George
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Niagara Airparts Alternator study. |
>
>
>Bob, please, stop defending yourself. Just stop. You don't NEED to
>defend yourself, and your replies simply add more fuel to George's
>raging fire. Let's just ignore George, and hopefully he will flame out.
I'm not defending myself. It is, as you've noted, unnecessary.
These "conversations" are as much an exercise for me (you'd
be surprised how often these kinds of discussion arise in
business situations) as they are an illustration of how one
should endeavor to filter out chaff and focus on the simple-ideas,
science and honorable consumer/supplier relationships.
It's as easy for folks to read the wrong things into my activity
as it is for George to create straw-men to attack. Let's
keep focused on the goal of figuring out how to integrate the
IR alternator into airplanes. If I can also illustrate responsible
and helpful actions with respect to suppliers, it's an added bonus.
I'd hope that folks on the list refrain from joining the
conversation except to illuminate MY errors of fact and logic.
I need and appreciate that kind of review. Let me deal with
George and Niagara.
If these posts upset anyone, please delete them. But if
they're interested in the practice and science of aircraft
systems design and value of building good relationships
with responsible participants, then simply observe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Heat sink for Schottky diode |
Re: PowerSchottky
Originally I believed the TO-3 hardware was so common that selling the insulators
made little sense. Customers have asked for a solution so I designed the attached.
I will add these to my website soon. I am now having parts bid, so I don't
know the price but the attached is easy to make.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/Complete Isolation for the PowerSchottky.pdf
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to
one's self-esteem...."
-Thomas Szasz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
In a message dated 01/04/06 3:00:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Matt: here's a complete schematic in ExpressSCH for a typical
aircraft, plus a symbol library that has many of B&C's switches etc.
http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html
Vern,
When I try to open your symbol library it says it's not an ExpressSCH file.
Stan Sutterfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> technology |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit |
technology
"What and where will the next innovations come from?"
I think this is where you are wrong. I'll just mention a few examples that
have absolutely SHAKEN the earth and transformed the entire planet over the
past 50 years:
"Ham Radio"
Many modern communications technologies were invented not by engineers, but
by amateurs, working in their shops, trying to come up with a "better way"
than the status quo. Spread spectrum, television, packet radio, and many
other examples exist. Howard Hughes was a ham. So was Robert
Goddard. Both of them were ridiculed for trying to find "a better way"
that was not in keeping with the present-day engineer mindset.
"Bill Gates"
Never graduated. Do we need to mention what he accomplished?
"Steve Jobs".
Do we need to mention what he created in his garage while HP was ridiculing
him for not being an "Engineer"?
Where are all these engineers when it comes to creating OBAM electrical
systems that are fault-tolerant? I don't remember seeing one single one of
them standing up in an EAA meeting to show us a better way. It's the
self-taught guy who has no "old school" to hide behind, the guy who is
thought of as "a bit crazy" who ends up being right all along. A thankless
job, taking all those arrows.
"There is tremendous unease in the "American soul" over the worth of the
dreamer/visionary.
We simultaneously romanticize these peculiar men and women, profit from
them, try to starve them out, and kill them off. It is as if investors,
distrustful of their own ability to tell the difference between an American
dream and an American Pipe Dream, hedge their bets by holding visionaries
to budgets and time lines that are just short of adequate."
- Fred Moody, "The Visionary Position"
Dave Morris
At 11:24 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>What and where will the next innovations come from? ENGINEERS.
>Chance is it will not be a kid from a Votech school that knows the bench as
>Bob says. OK. Not a put down just a fact. We need to admire the academic
>achievement and not scorn and ridicule it. I find the people who do this are
>ones who could not cut it in school or are just plan ignorant. Not everyone
>can be a self made man like Bob, no doubt he is much smarter than I am and
>most Engineers or manager at Raytheon.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Craig,
Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
Much Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices
are
the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ctg
ID=&
Rnd=227
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
Don't forget Burt Rutan....
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Morris "BigD" technology
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit
technology
technology
"What and where will the next innovations come from?"
I think this is where you are wrong. I'll just mention a few examples that
have absolutely SHAKEN the earth and transformed the entire planet over the
past 50 years:
"Ham Radio"
Many modern communications technologies were invented not by engineers, but
by amateurs, working in their shops, trying to come up with a "better way"
than the status quo. Spread spectrum, television, packet radio, and many
other examples exist. Howard Hughes was a ham. So was Robert
Goddard. Both of them were ridiculed for trying to find "a better way"
that was not in keeping with the present-day engineer mindset.
"Bill Gates"
Never graduated. Do we need to mention what he accomplished?
"Steve Jobs".
Do we need to mention what he created in his garage while HP was ridiculing
him for not being an "Engineer"?
Where are all these engineers when it comes to creating OBAM electrical
systems that are fault-tolerant? I don't remember seeing one single one of
them standing up in an EAA meeting to show us a better way. It's the
self-taught guy who has no "old school" to hide behind, the guy who is
thought of as "a bit crazy" who ends up being right all along. A thankless
job, taking all those arrows.
"There is tremendous unease in the "American soul" over the worth of the
dreamer/visionary.
We simultaneously romanticize these peculiar men and women, profit from
them, try to starve them out, and kill them off. It is as if investors,
distrustful of their own ability to tell the difference between an American
dream and an American Pipe Dream, hedge their bets by holding visionaries
to budgets and time lines that are just short of adequate."
- Fred Moody, "The Visionary Position"
Dave Morris
At 11:24 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>What and where will the next innovations come from? ENGINEERS.
>Chance is it will not be a kid from a Votech school that knows the bench as
>Bob says. OK. Not a put down just a fact. We need to admire the academic
>achievement and not scorn and ridicule it. I find the people who do this
are
>ones who could not cut it in school or are just plan ignorant. Not everyone
>can be a self made man like Bob, no doubt he is much smarter than I am and
>most Engineers or manager at Raytheon.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass instrument panel |
I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Riley <Richard(at)RILEY.NET> technology |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit |
technology
At 07:28 AM 1/4/06, Dave Morris \"BigD\"" , wrote:
>"What and where will the next innovations come from?"
>
>I think this is where you are wrong. I'll just mention a few examples that
>have absolutely SHAKEN the earth and transformed the entire planet over the
>past 50 years:
>
>"Ham Radio"
>Many modern communications technologies were invented not by engineers, but
>by amateurs, working in their shops, trying to come up with a "better way"
>than the status quo. Spread spectrum...
Invented by Hedy Lamar - actress.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce McGregor" <bruceflys(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where many
of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability progressed
to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently be
used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator . While
much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written long-ago
(in
technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we build
experimental
airplanes to use newer methods if safe and cost-effective.
My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
indicators subject to the same failure?
Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
Bruce McGregor
GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Not sure, but it sounds like a question for Aerocomp.. My Varieze has the
stock fiberglass sandwich panel, and has the avionics/instruments mounted
directly to it, but the Aerocomp likely has different layup/materials..
However, I think the stock Varieze panel looks kind of cheesy (technical
term)..
Matt-
> <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>
> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
> fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
> avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>
> Randy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
>
> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
A panel with sufficient strength and stiffness can probably
be fabricated from any common structural material. The answer
to your question is not readily provided without knowing
numbers of instruments, weights, overhang moments, etc.
The EASY answer is, if you provide an aluminum overlay equal
to the panel thickness in say, the RV kits, then you WILL
have sufficient structural capability to support the components.
Are you in contact with any folks who have finished and
are flying this airplane? What to the plans call for?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cross feed contactor |
>
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-2.jpg
>
>I have this contactor above for my alternator feed and the crow bar ov
>protector wired to it. I have an internally regulated alternator.
>
>I need a diagram of how to wire the crowbar to it and which studs do
>what.
>As an example, looking at this image above, and numbering the studs left
>to right, 1-4. Is the #1 stud alternator input, #2 coil engage +12, #3
>coil gnd, #4 output +12?
You need to convert this to a bare-bones contactor with
only a coil spike catcher diode. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-2.jpg
Remove the lower left and upper right diode assemblies.
The two fat terminals are interchangeable. They go in series
with the alternator b-lead.
The right-hand small stud goes to ground.
The left-hand small stud wires to your alternator control
switch and ov protection system.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Hooks" <bryanhooks(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
One thing to consider is what inputs are required to allow the EFIS' to
work. For example, if you have 2 EFIS units (lets say left and right),
both of which are made by the same manufacturer. Let's further suppose
that these units use airspeed as an input to their processor to aid in a
determination of attitude. If both of these units are attached to the
same pitot/static system, what do you suppose would happen with a
clogged pitot?
Gotta have redundant / independent inputs to get redundant / independent
outputs.
Just something that comes to my mind, right or wrong. Worth only what
you paid for it.
Bryan Hooks
RV7A, slowbuild
Knoxville, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
McGregor
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where
many
of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability
progressed
to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently
be
used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator .
While
much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written
long-ago
(in
technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we build
experimental
airplanes to use newer methods if safe and cost-effective.
My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
indicators subject to the same failure?
Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
Bruce McGregor
GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
The Dragonfly uses a fiberglass instrument panel that is actually
structural! But there are some really SWEET carbon fiber overlays you can
put on that will spiff them up quite a bit, thanks to the Japanese "tuner"
import crowd. See http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_carbonfiber.html
for some colorful carbon fiber overlay sheets. I'm planning to use a red
one on my panel.
Dave Morris
At 10:17 AM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>
> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>
>Randy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
For one, Tiger Direct has them cheaper than the Brother or Staples sites.
There are probably many more cheap sources on the Internet.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark R
Steitle
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
Craig,
Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
Much Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices are
the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ctg
ID=&
Rnd=227
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Express PCB/SCH was Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
I use it all the time. very easy to learn, intuitive, free. A few others on
this list are using it, Vern Little for one. Has been discussed before and
recently, but for some reason seems to remain largely unknown. Only downside, it
does not read .dwg files. Yesterday, I changed some of my bus connections
around on the plane, popped into the computer, changed the schematic two
minutes, shazam! done! It is just that easy.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
In a message dated 1/4/2006 12:00:32 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
A while back (at university, actually), I used a software package from
Express PCB which did PCB layouts, including autorouting. I see they now
have packaged the PCB software with schematic layout. Has anyone else
looked at it. I haven't run the PCB software in 9 years, by from my
recollection, it was pretty slick. I may test drive this stuff (for
schematics) when I get home.
http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
Regards,
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
Allow me to amend my previous post. I just learned that Tiger Direct
back-ordered some items on my order until Jan 26th but charged my credit
card for the full amount. I canceled the remaining items in the order and
will never do business with them again.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
For one, Tiger Direct has them cheaper than the Brother or Staples sites.
There are probably many more cheap sources on the Internet.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark R
Steitle
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
Craig,
Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
Much Thanks,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices are
the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ctg
ID=&
Rnd=227
-- Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
I consider your concerns quite valid especially when you consider the
software issues that continue to crop up. However I believe the main
reason for simple basic independant flight instruments on many large
ships is that they will continue to reliably run off the battery even
when everything else such as engines and inverters have gone offline. It
happens. Hopefully this FAR will stay in effect. Even automatically
deployed windmills for emergency hydraulics and AC electrics have their
limitations and do not come on line instantly. And when similar systems
disagree it is nice to have a totally different system as the tie breaker.
Ken
Bruce McGregor wrote:
>
>
>Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where many
> of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability progressed
> to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently be
> used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
> serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
> center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
>
> For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
> separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
> indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator . While
> much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written long-ago
>(in
> technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we build
>experimental
> airplanes to use newer methods if safe and cost-effective.
>
> My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
> their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
> voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
> indicators subject to the same failure?
>
> Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
>
> Bruce McGregor
>GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Yep, even the PSS AOA goes out to lunch when pitot pressure is interrupted.
This little flaw caused one crash, if I recall correctly.
The problem with 2 EFIS units are,
1) Are you scanning each to note any discrepancies?
2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Hooks
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
One thing to consider is what inputs are required to allow the EFIS' to
work. For example, if you have 2 EFIS units (lets say left and right),
both of which are made by the same manufacturer. Let's further suppose
that these units use airspeed as an input to their processor to aid in a
determination of attitude. If both of these units are attached to the
same pitot/static system, what do you suppose would happen with a
clogged pitot?
Gotta have redundant / independent inputs to get redundant / independent
outputs.
Just something that comes to my mind, right or wrong. Worth only what
you paid for it.
Bryan Hooks
RV7A, slowbuild
Knoxville, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
McGregor
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where
many
of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability
progressed
to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently
be
used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator .
While
much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written
long-ago
(in
technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we build
experimental
airplanes to use newer methods if safe and cost-effective.
My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
indicators subject to the same failure?
Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
Bruce McGregor
GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
I have not found a forum for this plane, I suppose there are not
many being built. I am not the original purchaser of the kit so Aerocomp
wants $3000 ( believe it or not) up front to give any builder assistance.
And I have loads of assembly photo's, diagrams etc. but cannot find and
specifics on the panel. Was hoping to find another person building an
Aerocomp in group.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>
>
>
>><brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>
>> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>>avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>
> A panel with sufficient strength and stiffness can probably
> be fabricated from any common structural material. The answer
> to your question is not readily provided without knowing
> numbers of instruments, weights, overhang moments, etc.
>
> The EASY answer is, if you provide an aluminum overlay equal
> to the panel thickness in say, the RV kits, then you WILL
> have sufficient structural capability to support the components.
>
> Are you in contact with any folks who have finished and
> are flying this airplane? What to the plans call for?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Heat sink for Schottky diode |
Grrrr......
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/CompleteIsolationforthePowerSchottky.pdf
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
"I tried being reasonable; I didn't like it."
---Clint Eastwood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Bruce,
FAR 23.1311 point 5 describes mechanical instruments OR independent
electronic instruments.
You will reach that as example with a pair of Dynon's where the primary
has two different power sources and/or an internal backub battery.
Take care
Werner (one Dynon D10A with backup battery plus one uEncoder, no
mechanical instruments, VFR only)
Bruce McGregor wrote:
>
>
>Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where many
> of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability progressed
> to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently be
> used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
> serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
> center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
>
> For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
> separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
> indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator . While
> much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written long-ago
>(in
> technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we build
>experimental
> airplanes to use newer methods if safe and cost-effective.
>
> My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
> their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
> voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
> indicators subject to the same failure?
>
> Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
>
> Bruce McGregor
>GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nancy Ghertner <nghertner(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
On 1/3/06 2:33 PM, "Steve Thomas" wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried or used DesignWorks Lite? It is a circuit
> documentation program. The link is:
>
> http://www.capilano.com/html/dwml.html
>
> They have a version for both Mac and Windows and is free for 30 days,
> then $40 to register. I'd like to hear comments from anyone who
> might have used it.
>
I have just tried using this software. It was unable to label the pins on
dsub units which was my first requirement for this type software. After
paying the $39, and communicating with them three times, they have been of
no help. I therefore can't endorse this program. Lory Ghertner
>
> On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
>> than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
>> ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
>> test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
>
>
>
> Steve Thomas
> SteveT.Net
> steve(at)stevet.net
> 805-569-0336 Office
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams Design Software |
I've had no problem labeling anything with DesignWorks Lite.
You can use up to 4 characters to label any pin on any component by
right-clicking, going to Device Info, and then Pin Info. For anything
longer than 4 characters, just use the text control to add text anywhere.
Example:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/N75UP-Schematic-CenterSwitchPanel.pdf
Note I was able to label all switch pins and all connector pins.
Dave Morris
At 12:21 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>On 1/3/06 2:33 PM, "Steve Thomas" wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anyone tried or used DesignWorks Lite? It is a circuit
> > documentation program. The link is:
> >
> > http://www.capilano.com/html/dwml.html
> >
> > They have a version for both Mac and Windows and is free for 30 days,
> > then $40 to register. I'd like to hear comments from anyone who
> > might have used it.
> >
>
> I have just tried using this software. It was unable to label the pins on
>dsub units which was my first requirement for this type software. After
>paying the $39, and communicating with them three times, they have been of
>no help. I therefore can't endorse this program. Lory Ghertner
> >
> > On Jan 3, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> >> I've had many requests for recommendations on software other
> >> than the expensive AutoCAD for editing my drawings. I've just
> >> ordered TurboCAD off Ebay (v10.2 for $26 post paid) and I'll
> >> test it using the .dwg files off the website as source drawings.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Thomas
> > SteveT.Net
> > steve(at)stevet.net
> > 805-569-0336 Office
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Ouch!! That's a black eye for Aerocomp as far as I am concerned..
Interesting. I don't think that's common in the industry, is it?
Regards,
Matt-
> <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>
> I have not found a forum for this plane, I suppose there are
> not
> many being built. I am not the original purchaser of the kit so Aerocomp
> wants $3000 ( believe it or not) up front to give any builder
> assistance. And I have loads of assembly photo's, diagrams etc. but
> cannot find and specifics on the panel. Was hoping to find another
> person building an Aerocomp in group.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>><brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>>
>>> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>>>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>>> avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>>
>> A panel with sufficient strength and stiffness can probably
>> be fabricated from any common structural material. The answer
>> to your question is not readily provided without knowing
>> numbers of instruments, weights, overhang moments, etc.
>>
>> The EASY answer is, if you provide an aluminum overlay equal
>> to the panel thickness in say, the RV kits, then you WILL
>> have sufficient structural capability to support the components.
>>
>> Are you in contact with any folks who have finished and
>> are flying this airplane? What to the plans call for?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Labels |
Craig...
I think you are mistaken on Tiger Direct's billing/shipping policy.
I have been dealing with them for years, and they have NEVER billed my
credit card until AFTER the item has shipped. My card has often not
been charged until after I received the item, as well.
If they have to ship in several packages, due to back orders or
whatever, only the FIRST item had the total shipping charges...the other
items were billed just their selling price as they came in.
In fact, the last item I bought from them was back ordered for 7 days (a
plasma TV ... still received it in time for the start of the NFL
season!), and they gave me free shipping as!
A friend of mine recently received a new computer, and when he was
billed, the price was LESS than the add due to a price drop between the
time he ordered and the time it shipped.
From the Tiger Direct website:
"We accept VISA, MasterCard, American Express, Discover Card, personal
checks, cashier's checks, PayPal, wire transfers, Bill Me Later, Tiger
Gift Cards and money orders. We DO NOT CHARGE YOUR ACCOUNT until we have
SHIPPED your order!"
I do not work for them or sell to them. I am just a very satisfied
customer of theirs and want to pass on my satisfaction (as well as that
of my many friends who are also satisfied with them).
Harley Dixon
Craig Payne wrote:
>
>Allow me to amend my previous post. I just learned that Tiger Direct
>back-ordered some items on my order until Jan 26th but charged my credit
>card for the full amount. I canceled the remaining items in the order and
>will never do business with them again.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
>Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>For one, Tiger Direct has them cheaper than the Brother or Staples sites.
>There are probably many more cheap sources on the Internet.
>
>http://www.tigerdirect.com/
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark R
>Steitle
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>Craig,
>Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
>
>Much Thanks,
>Mark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
>Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>
>
>TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
>
>You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices are
>the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
>
>http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ctg
>ID=&
>Rnd=227
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
My plan is to engage the Autopilot if things get screwy in IFR...Just
hope that's right...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
-->
Yep, even the PSS AOA goes out to lunch when pitot pressure is
interrupted.
This little flaw caused one crash, if I recall correctly.
The problem with 2 EFIS units are,
1) Are you scanning each to note any discrepancies?
2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Hooks
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
One thing to consider is what inputs are required to allow the EFIS' to
work. For example, if you have 2 EFIS units (lets say left and right),
both of which are made by the same manufacturer. Let's further suppose
that these units use airspeed as an input to their processor to aid in a
determination of attitude. If both of these units are attached to the
same pitot/static system, what do you suppose would happen with a
clogged pitot?
Gotta have redundant / independent inputs to get redundant / independent
outputs.
Just something that comes to my mind, right or wrong. Worth only what
you paid for it.
Bryan Hooks
RV7A, slowbuild
Knoxville, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
McGregor
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where
many of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability
progressed to where a second EFIS with an independent power source
could prudently be used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of
Dynon D-10A units could serve in this manner and have the added
advantage of a backup PFD center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
For certificated airplanes the FAA requires (FAR 23.1311) as backups
separate mechanical or electronic airspeed, altimeter and attitude
indicators along with an independent magnetic direction indicator .
While
much of FAR 23 is worthy of respect, this provision was written
long-ago (in technology terms) and may be obsolete. And after all, we
build experimental airplanes to use newer methods if safe and
cost-effective.
My concern is for a failure mode that would take out both EFIS units or
their displays. Could a lightning strike do that? How about a severe
voltage spike? Would transorbs alleviate either? Are three electronic
indicators subject to the same failure?
Any thoughts will be appreciated, and TIA,
Bruce McGregor
GlaStar (panel and electrical system)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
>
>
> 2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
>
The T&B (you didn't eliminate that, did you?)?? :)
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
When I first call Tiger Direct to check on the status of my order this was
mentioned in passing. I called support again and asked this specific
question and was told the same thing. The woman I spoke to did not seem at
all surprised when I canceled the remaining portion of the order. When this
transaction and the credit show up on my credit card company's web site I
will confirm this.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
Craig...
I think you are mistaken on Tiger Direct's billing/shipping policy.
I have been dealing with them for years, and they have NEVER billed my
credit card until AFTER the item has shipped. My card has often not been
charged until after I received the item, as well.
If they have to ship in several packages, due to back orders or whatever,
only the FIRST item had the total shipping charges...the other items were
billed just their selling price as they came in.
In fact, the last item I bought from them was back ordered for 7 days (a
plasma TV ... still received it in time for the start of the NFL season!),
and they gave me free shipping as!
A friend of mine recently received a new computer, and when he was billed,
the price was LESS than the add due to a price drop between the time he
ordered and the time it shipped.
From the Tiger Direct website:
"We accept VISA, MasterCard, American Express, Discover Card, personal
checks, cashier's checks, PayPal, wire transfers, Bill Me Later, Tiger Gift
Cards and money orders. We DO NOT CHARGE YOUR ACCOUNT until we have SHIPPED
your order!"
I do not work for them or sell to them. I am just a very satisfied customer
of theirs and want to pass on my satisfaction (as well as that of my many
friends who are also satisfied with them).
Harley Dixon
Craig Payne wrote:
>-->
>
>Allow me to amend my previous post. I just learned that Tiger Direct
>back-ordered some items on my order until Jan 26th but charged my
>credit card for the full amount. I canceled the remaining items in the
>order and will never do business with them again.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Craig Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>For one, Tiger Direct has them cheaper than the Brother or Staples sites.
>There are probably many more cheap sources on the Internet.
>
>http://www.tigerdirect.com/
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>R Steitle
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>Craig,
>Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
>
>Much Thanks,
>Mark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Craig Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>
>
>TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
>
>You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their
>prices are the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock
some.
>
>http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ct
>g
>ID=&
>Rnd=227
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
Dear George,
I do believe this forum is for helping, learning, passing info about
mistakes one may have made and also info about success in a particular
venture. I don't care if the individual has an alphabet soup after his name,
how much money he's made consulting, or how much disdain he has for the
uneducated such as I, and possibly a few others...and in particular Bob (
who I've never met but respect ). Why not give us something constructive as
so many others have, instead of satisfying your excessive pride in your
degrees and fragile ego by putting down someone who's doing a worthwhile
service for the homebuilt community. Next time you write, why not try
showing us a new, novel better way of doing something. Just for the heck of
it...look at Bill Gates, no degree and he's not the only successful person
without a degree, probably as many of them as there are PE's.
Nuff said
Harold....HS graduate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Good Afternoon Frank,
I certainly hope that is meant a joke.
I am all for using an autopilot when one is working properly, but if you
really are going to rely on such a device as your last ditch savior, you should
have at least triple redundancy.
I am not at all aware of how things are done these days, but when I was
flying the DC-10 in the seventies, in order to make an automatic approach and
landing, we had to have three operating autopilots each of which was powered
from a separate source. There was a sophisticated comparator circuit which
would not allow the approach to be conducted unless all three autopilots were
agreeing as to what action needed to be taken. Suffice it to say the system was
not in condition to be used very often and my company eventually scrapped
the idea.
The cheapest and lightest method we have available to us today to have a
backup in the case of primary instrument failure is still an independently
powered Turn Indicator either driven by a gyroscope or by solid state
accelerometers.
Just like Matt said, get a Turn and Bank installed, then spend twenty hours
learning how to use it properly. That will be the best money you have ever
spent on providing safety to your flight operation.
It is also possible to use a Turn Coordinator for that purpose. I prefer
the classic T&B or a modern solid state version thereof, but the TC is better
than nothing at all!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/4/2006 1:13:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
My plan is to engage the Autopilot if things get screwy in IFR...Just
hope that's right...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"
-->
Yep, even the PSS AOA goes out to lunch when pitot pressure is
interrupted.
This little flaw caused one crash, if I recall correctly.
The problem with 2 EFIS units are,
1) Are you scanning each to note any discrepancies?
2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
I called Tiger Direct a third time and explained what had happened. They
said that my card had *not* been charged for the full amount and were at a
loss to explain why the two previous support people had told me differently.
You can draw whatever conclusion from this you wish.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
-->
Craig...
I think you are mistaken on Tiger Direct's billing/shipping policy.
I have been dealing with them for years, and they have NEVER billed my
credit card until AFTER the item has shipped. My card has often not been
charged until after I received the item, as well.
If they have to ship in several packages, due to back orders or whatever,
only the FIRST item had the total shipping charges...the other items were
billed just their selling price as they came in.
In fact, the last item I bought from them was back ordered for 7 days (a
plasma TV ... still received it in time for the start of the NFL season!),
and they gave me free shipping as!
A friend of mine recently received a new computer, and when he was billed,
the price was LESS than the add due to a price drop between the time he
ordered and the time it shipped.
From the Tiger Direct website:
"We accept VISA, MasterCard, American Express, Discover Card, personal
checks, cashier's checks, PayPal, wire transfers, Bill Me Later, Tiger Gift
Cards and money orders. We DO NOT CHARGE YOUR ACCOUNT until we have SHIPPED
your order!"
I do not work for them or sell to them. I am just a very satisfied customer
of theirs and want to pass on my satisfaction (as well as that of my many
friends who are also satisfied with them).
Harley Dixon
Craig Payne wrote:
>-->
>
>Allow me to amend my previous post. I just learned that Tiger Direct
>back-ordered some items on my order until Jan 26th but charged my
>credit card for the full amount. I canceled the remaining items in the
>order and will never do business with them again.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Craig Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>For one, Tiger Direct has them cheaper than the Brother or Staples sites.
>There are probably many more cheap sources on the Internet.
>
>http://www.tigerdirect.com/
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>R Steitle
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>-->
>
>Craig,
>Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
>
>Much Thanks,
>Mark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Craig Payne
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
>
>
>
>TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
>
>You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their
>prices are the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock
some.
>
>http://www.advizia.com/brother/Advisor.asp?User=tapesacc&Advisor=Sub&Ct
>g
>ID=&
>Rnd=227
>
>-- Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Kinda sorta,
I should have explained further that my A/P is a pictorial pilot from
Truetrack, which has a solid state turn coordinator built into the
display head.
This is a backup to the EFIS which in turn is backed up by internal
battery.
So I have two independent attitude displays (atually 3 if you include
the companion engine monitor that can display the EFIS output, but it is
not a fully redundant backup)
Other backups are the ASI and altimeter steam guages. In addition to the
IFR GPS and Nav/com and backup comm radio.
See any problem with this for "light IFR"?
Cheers
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Good Afternoon Frank,
I certainly hope that is meant a joke.
I am all for using an autopilot when one is working properly, but if you
really are going to rely on such a device as your last ditch savior, you
should have at least triple redundancy.
I am not at all aware of how things are done these days, but when I was
flying the DC-10 in the seventies, in order to make an automatic
approach and landing, we had to have three operating autopilots each of
which was powered from a separate source. There was a sophisticated
comparator circuit which would not allow the approach to be conducted
unless all three autopilots were agreeing as to what action needed to be
taken. Suffice it to say the system was not in condition to be used
very often and my company eventually scrapped the idea.
The cheapest and lightest method we have available to us today to have a
backup in the case of primary instrument failure is still an
independently powered Turn Indicator either driven by a gyroscope or by
solid state accelerometers.
Just like Matt said, get a Turn and Bank installed, then spend twenty
hours learning how to use it properly. That will be the best money you
have ever spent on providing safety to your flight operation.
It is also possible to use a Turn Coordinator for that purpose. I
prefer the classic T&B or a modern solid state version thereof, but the
TC is better than nothing at all!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/4/2006 1:13:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
(Corvallis)"
My plan is to engage the Autopilot if things get screwy in IFR...Just
hope that's right...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Gray
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"
-->
Yep, even the PSS AOA goes out to lunch when pitot pressure is
interrupted.
This little flaw caused one crash, if I recall correctly.
The problem with 2 EFIS units are,
1) Are you scanning each to note any discrepancies?
2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
Thanks. Nice but rather pricey I guess that if you want to save weight
you have to spend the bucks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Morris "BigD"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>
>
> The Dragonfly uses a fiberglass instrument panel that is actually
> structural! But there are some really SWEET carbon fiber overlays you can
> put on that will spiff them up quite a bit, thanks to the Japanese "tuner"
> import crowd. See http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_carbonfiber.html
> for some colorful carbon fiber overlay sheets. I'm planning to use a red
> one on my panel.
>
> Dave Morris
>
>
> At 10:17 AM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>><brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>
>> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>>avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Good Afternoon Frank,
Looks good to me!
The important thing, though, are you comfortable with it?
I have not had a chance to fly Jim's newest instrument, but if it would do
as well as my gyroscopic T&B, I would love it dearly. My hope is to someday
have a solid state T&B or replacement instrument. The one Jim has developed
sure looks good to me.
I always wonder just what is meant when one says "light IFR". Most of us
don't fly in cloud very much, but any IFR is fairly serious stuff. I am happy
shooting low weather approaches with minimum equipment where others may not
care to. What you are proposing seems to be more than adequate for any IFR I
have ever been involved with, but I would want to be comfortable doing that
IFR without the autopilot!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/4/2006 2:10:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
Other backups are the ASI and altimeter steam guages. In addition to the
IFR GPS and Nav/com and backup comm radio.
See any problem with this for "light IFR"?
Cheers
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Light IFR, what's that?
Let's take a look at our flying environment. These pocket rockets we build
are, by most part, neutrally stable. By that I mean that the airplane will
stay where you point it when you let loose of the controls. This is what
makes them so much fun to fly. It also means that they are a handful to hand
fly IFR. Can you, sure - if you have everything at hand, all your charts in
the right order, and your approach plates memorized. Or, you have a
functional autopilot.
The point I'm trying to raise is that even the most trained pilot is going
to have flight path excursions when transitioning from full to partial
panel. You want that transition to be to a true attitude instrument, not a
T&B. This would, at least, minimize the excursions. Can you shoot a needle,
ball, airspeed ILS approach - sure can, if and it's a big if, I had
transitioned to N/B/A before I started the approach. I doubt if I could
transition at mid-approach without major excursions.
The T&B is not a precision attitude instrument. It's sole purpose is to save
your butt long enough to find some VFR conditions.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Kinda sorta,
I should have explained further that my A/P is a pictorial pilot from
Truetrack, which has a solid state turn coordinator built into the
display head.
This is a backup to the EFIS which in turn is backed up by internal
battery.
So I have two independent attitude displays (atually 3 if you include
the companion engine monitor that can display the EFIS output, but it is
not a fully redundant backup)
Other backups are the ASI and altimeter steam guages. In addition to the
IFR GPS and Nav/com and backup comm radio.
See any problem with this for "light IFR"?
Cheers
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
Good Afternoon Frank,
I certainly hope that is meant a joke.
I am all for using an autopilot when one is working properly, but if you
really are going to rely on such a device as your last ditch savior, you
should have at least triple redundancy.
I am not at all aware of how things are done these days, but when I was
flying the DC-10 in the seventies, in order to make an automatic
approach and landing, we had to have three operating autopilots each of
which was powered from a separate source. There was a sophisticated
comparator circuit which would not allow the approach to be conducted
unless all three autopilots were agreeing as to what action needed to be
taken. Suffice it to say the system was not in condition to be used
very often and my company eventually scrapped the idea.
The cheapest and lightest method we have available to us today to have a
backup in the case of primary instrument failure is still an
independently powered Turn Indicator either driven by a gyroscope or by
solid state accelerometers.
Just like Matt said, get a Turn and Bank installed, then spend twenty
hours learning how to use it properly. That will be the best money you
have ever spent on providing safety to your flight operation.
It is also possible to use a Turn Coordinator for that purpose. I
prefer the classic T&B or a modern solid state version thereof, but the
TC is better than nothing at all!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/4/2006 1:13:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
(Corvallis)"
My plan is to engage the Autopilot if things get screwy in IFR...Just
hope that's right...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Gray
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"
-->
Yep, even the PSS AOA goes out to lunch when pitot pressure is
interrupted.
This little flaw caused one crash, if I recall correctly.
The problem with 2 EFIS units are,
1) Are you scanning each to note any discrepancies?
2) If one disagrees with the other which one is right?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
I may have been a little more gunshy about buying this plane if I had
known this before hand. You would think any kit manufacturer would be more
than happy to help out any way they could just to get more of their design's
in the air as advertisement.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>
>
>
> Ouch!! That's a black eye for Aerocomp as far as I am concerned..
> Interesting. I don't think that's common in the industry, is it?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>
>> <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>
>> I have not found a forum for this plane, I suppose there are
>> not
>> many being built. I am not the original purchaser of the kit so Aerocomp
>> wants $3000 ( believe it or not) up front to give any builder
>> assistance. And I have loads of assembly photo's, diagrams etc. but
>> cannot find and specifics on the panel. Was hoping to find another
>> person building an Aerocomp in group.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>><brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>>>
>>>> I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
>>>>fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
>>>> avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
>>>
>>> A panel with sufficient strength and stiffness can probably
>>> be fabricated from any common structural material. The answer
>>> to your question is not readily provided without knowing
>>> numbers of instruments, weights, overhang moments, etc.
>>>
>>> The EASY answer is, if you provide an aluminum overlay equal
>>> to the panel thickness in say, the RV kits, then you WILL
>>> have sufficient structural capability to support the components.
>>>
>>> Are you in contact with any folks who have finished and
>>> are flying this airplane? What to the plans call for?
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: formation flight comm attenuator |
>
>Howdy all-
>
>After another frustrating couple of occasions trying to communicate with
>fellow formators I MUST come up with some solution to this problem. Recap-
>whenever closer than 300' (MOL) to other planes, transmissions from other
>planes are
>typically very garbled & unreadable on my Microair 760. They can hear me
>fine & radio works excellent at greater distances. Several listers here have
>suggested BNC attenuators to resolve this, but most I've found are limited to
>less than the output power of the 760 (about 5watts). See:
>
> http://www.smelectronics.us/bnc,fattenuators.htm
>
>A representative for JFW Industries claims to have a 50 ohm/5 watt unit at a
>reasonable price ($45) that he claims will do what I need. Unfortunately, it
>seems installing one of these "should" mitigate the formation problem, but
>longer-range comm will suffer. I asked about a "switchable" unit. The
>rep said
>it's possible, but much pricier (custom job).
You don't need a 5W unit unless you plan to run your transmitter
continuously. Like starter motors that are expected to produce
several hp for seconds at a time, an attenuator for a vhf comm
transmitter can be rated for a relatively small fraction of the
transmitter's output power. Just don't try to read War and Peace
to others in the formation . . . make them get their own entertainment
systems.
I didn't have time to do a comic book on this project but did
get some pictures made and a rough assembly document. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator
The "dummy load" portion of this design is good for 2W continuous
and should be fine for transmitters up to 6W or so. Just don't make
long winded transmissions.
I took a peek at this assembly on the super kilodollar network
analyzer and it's entirely adequate to the task and presents a
barely detectable "lump" in the transmission line in the
NORMAL mode and SWR of 1.4:1 or better over comm range.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Good Afternoon Frank,
Get the rating and file a lot until you do feel very comfortable in cloud.
It takes a while, but the added utility gained is unbelievable. It is kinda
like learning to walk or learning to ride a bike. Takes a bit of practice right
at first, but once the procedures are ingrained, it is just as natural as
walking or riding a bike.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/4/2006 3:20:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
frank.hinde(at)hp.com writes:
Ha....Comfortable with it..hell no, I have ten hours in actual IFR
conditions and a scary flight in the rear seat of a newly minted IFR
jock forgetting to adjust his DG for precession...I mean he adjusted it
like 10 minutes ago...should be fine right...as long as your comfortable
with a 15 degree error it is yes....Piece of junk!
My aim is to get instruction for my instrument ticket in my
RV7A....These maybe famous last words! As I rent a doggy old (but
stable) spam can....:)
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
| Subject: | fiberglass panel |
brinker,
you may want to consider cutting a good portion of your fiberglass panel out and
replacing it with .062 alum. make a left panel and a right panel. now the
panels are removeable for access to the instruments. will take a little engineering
[ that is a figure of speech only!] to get the strength around the edges
to mount the alum. to but it worked great for me on my dakota hawk. now instead
of a one piece permanent panel i can open up either panel in 2 minutes. there
is more than a little to be said for being able to make your panel with a
drill press and work on it lying on your workbench.
bob noffs... i just cut out the instrument holes today,
tomorrow the toggle switches and the square holes!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
According to Burt Rutan's bio on the Scaled Composites web site, he
graduated as an Aeronautical Engineer.
http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/press-PDF/burt_rutan_bio.pdf
Kevin Horton
On 4 Jan 2006, at 11:08, Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>
> Don't forget Burt Rutan....
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Dave
> Morris "BigD" technology
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit
> technology
>
>
> technology
>
> "What and where will the next innovations come from?"
>
> I think this is where you are wrong. I'll just mention a few
> examples that
> have absolutely SHAKEN the earth and transformed the entire planet
> over the
> past 50 years:
>
> "Ham Radio"
> Many modern communications technologies were invented not by
> engineers, but
> by amateurs, working in their shops, trying to come up with a
> "better way"
> than the status quo. Spread spectrum, television, packet radio,
> and many
> other examples exist. Howard Hughes was a ham. So was Robert
> Goddard. Both of them were ridiculed for trying to find "a better
> way"
> that was not in keeping with the present-day engineer mindset.
>
> "Bill Gates"
> Never graduated. Do we need to mention what he accomplished?
>
> "Steve Jobs".
> Do we need to mention what he created in his garage while HP was
> ridiculing
> him for not being an "Engineer"?
>
> Where are all these engineers when it comes to creating OBAM
> electrical
> systems that are fault-tolerant? I don't remember seeing one
> single one of
> them standing up in an EAA meeting to show us a better way. It's the
> self-taught guy who has no "old school" to hide behind, the guy who is
> thought of as "a bit crazy" who ends up being right all along. A
> thankless
> job, taking all those arrows.
>
> "There is tremendous unease in the "American soul" over the worth
> of the
> dreamer/visionary.
> We simultaneously romanticize these peculiar men and women, profit
> from
> them, try to starve them out, and kill them off. It is as if
> investors,
> distrustful of their own ability to tell the difference between an
> American
> dream and an American Pipe Dream, hedge their bets by holding
> visionaries
> to budgets and time lines that are just short of adequate."
> - Fred Moody, "The Visionary Position"
>
> Dave Morris
>
>
> At 11:24 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>> What and where will the next innovations come from? ENGINEERS.
>> Chance is it will not be a kid from a Votech school that knows the
>> bench as
>> Bob says. OK. Not a put down just a fact. We need to admire the
>> academic
>> achievement and not scorn and ridicule it. I find the people who
>> do this
> are
>> ones who could not cut it in school or are just plan ignorant. Not
>> everyone
>> can be a self made man like Bob, no doubt he is much smarter than
>> I am and
>> most Engineers or manager at Raytheon.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
We installed the trays on pieces of 3/4"x3/4" aluminum angle and the
fastened them to the glass panel.
John
Lancair ES
wrote:
> <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>
> It will not be a problem to support the radio stack from the
> back on
> this plane. Accually I believe I will do that even if I decide to put an
> aluminum plate over the FG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass panel |
Thanks for the idea I'll definately give it some thought.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fiberglass panel
>
> brinker,
> you may want to consider cutting a good portion of your fiberglass panel
> out and replacing it with .062 alum. make a left panel and a right panel.
> now the panels are removeable for access to the instruments. will take a
> little engineering [ that is a figure of speech only!] to get the strength
> around the edges to mount the alum. to but it worked great for me on my
> dakota hawk. now instead of a one piece permanent panel i can open up
> either panel in 2 minutes. there is more than a little to be said for
> being able to make your panel with a drill press and work on it lying on
> your workbench.
> bob noffs... i just cut out the instrument holes
> today, tomorrow the toggle switches and the square holes!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
That would definately stiffen the radio stack but what about the
other instruments ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass instrument panel
>
>
> We installed the trays on pieces of 3/4"x3/4" aluminum angle and the
> fastened them to the glass panel.
>
> John
> Lancair ES
>
>
> wrote:
>
>> <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>>
>> It will not be a problem to support the radio stack from the
>> back on
>> this plane. Accually I believe I will do that even if I decide to put an
>> aluminum plate over the FG
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
In a message dated 1/4/2006 5:25:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jschroeder(at)perigee.net writes:
We installed the trays on pieces of 3/4"x3/4" aluminum angle and the
fastened them to the glass panel.
John
Lancair ES
Good Evening John,
You might consider using the RadioRax product (www.radiorax.com) in lieu of
the angle aluminum. Not cheap, but make for very easy changes of equipment.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Close Proximity Air2Air Comm problem (HELP!) |
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
> Microair tech support suggests the following: "The radio's operation is
> normal. What you need is an antenna switch with a lower gain antenna for these
> situations. This should reduce the receiver sensitivity at the front end. When
> you aren't in formation or in close proximity to other aircraft, you should be
> able to switch back to your bent whip for greater sensitivity at the lower
> end."
Mostly this means that the MicroAir receiver front-end is subject to
front-end overload. I noticed and reported this about 5 years ago. I
find it interesting that they have the problem but others don't.
> Possible solution: I have a couple of Rubber Duckie antennas. I could mount
> one of these to a BNC receptacle on the larger side of a dedicated metal box
> (about 3"x3"x1") under my panel with the RD pointed toward the floor. A short
> RG400 patch cord from the 760 to the box, and the belly antenna RG400 to
> another receptacle on the box. A SPDT switch also mounted to the box would simply
> connect either the RD or main antenna to the 760. (Fancier yet, make it a
> DPDT feeding a lamp on my annunciator: "AUX ANT ON") If the proximity of the
RD
> to panel stuff turned out to be a problem, it could be re-located somewhere
> aft via a separate RG400, such as under the transverse seat back brace (RV-6A
> tip-up).
>
> What say ye wise ones?
Well, if you don't care about attenuating your transmit power too (you
probably don't since you are only trying to talk to an airplane 50'
away) then just put a switchable 10db pad in the antenna cable.
Here, do something like this:
o---------------o
/ \
Radio---o s1a s1b o-----Antenna
o--+----R2---+--o
| |
R1 R3
| |
----- -----
--- ---
- -
R1=R3= 96.2 ohm
R2 = 71.2 ohm
For the sake of ease of construction, use 100ohm and 75 ohm respectively.
S1 is a DPDT switch. In the up position the pad is bypassed and full
power/signal goes between the radio and the antenna. In the down
position the resistors attenuate the signal by 10dB.
In this design R1 has to handle about 2/3 of the transmitter's power.
Since most of these radios have a carrier power of about 5W, you need
about a 3W resistor. You could build it up out of 2W resistors in
parallel, say three 2-watt 270 ohm resistors in parallel. R2 and R3 can
safely be 2W resistors. That should handle just about any common
panel-mount VHF comm radio.
> Thanks for any suggestions or critique- I have GOTTA fix this!
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Labels |
FWIW I had no need for wider than 1/2" and in fact I printed even that
in double lines and cut it in half for quite a few places.
Ken
Mark R Steitle wrote:
>
>Craig,
>Cool, 1/2 & 3/4 should be fine. I'll place an order for some of both.
>
>Much Thanks,
>Mark
>
>
>
>TZ135 is 1/2" white-on-clear, TZ145 is 3/4", I don't see a 1".
>
>You can order from the Brother site below but I don't think their prices
>are
>the best. If you are in a hurry Staples and OfficeMax stock some.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass instrument panel |
Randy
We have a composite panel in a Velocity RG XL. It has a full Apollo/UPS
stack in the center, A full compliment of steam flight gauges, a VM1000,
transponder and an array of breakers. We supported it with a couple of
aluminum strips .It is very sturdy.
Peter
I have a composite airplane Aerocomp 6. The dash panel is
fiberglass. Will the fiberglass alone be strong enough to support the
avionics ? Do I need an overlay of some sort ?
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: formation flight comm attenuator |
Bob, this looks like it will do nicely. You're a packaging genius! I'll be rolling
one of these soon.
Brian L., don't forget modulation in your power handling calc's. IIRC, a 5W carrier
AM xmtr will put out 10W at 100% modulation. The 5W figure is only accurate
for FM or PM, or "dead air" on AM. Not sure this makes much practical difference,
but it would be a shame to let the smoke out of one of these puppies
inside the cockpit, especially while your eyes need to be glued on Flight Lead.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: formation flight comm attenuator
>
>Howdy all-
>
>After another frustrating couple of occasions trying to communicate with
>fellow formators I MUST come up with some solution to this problem. Recap-
>whenever closer than 300' (MOL) to other planes, transmissions from other
>planes are
>typically very garbled & unreadable on my Microair 760. They can hear me
>fine & radio works excellent at greater distances. Several listers here have
>suggested BNC attenuators to resolve this, but most I've found are limited to
>less than the output power of the 760 (about 5watts). See:
>
> http://www.smelectronics.us/bnc,fattenuators.htm
>
>A representative for JFW Industries claims to have a 50 ohm/5 watt unit at a
>reasonable price ($45) that he claims will do what I need. Unfortunately, it
>seems installing one of these "should" mitigate the formation problem, but
>longer-range comm will suffer. I asked about a "switchable" unit. The
>rep said
>it's possible, but much pricier (custom job).
You don't need a 5W unit unless you plan to run your transmitter
continuously. Like starter motors that are expected to produce
several hp for seconds at a time, an attenuator for a vhf comm
transmitter can be rated for a relatively small fraction of the
transmitter's output power. Just don't try to read War and Peace
to others in the formation . . . make them get their own entertainment
systems.
I didn't have time to do a comic book on this project but did
get some pictures made and a rough assembly document. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator
The "dummy load" portion of this design is good for 2W continuous
and should be fine for transmitters up to 6W or so. Just don't make
long winded transmissions.
I took a peek at this assembly on the super kilodollar network
analyzer and it's entirely adequate to the task and presents a
barely detectable "lump" in the transmission line in the
NORMAL mode and SWR of 1.4:1 or better over comm range.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | choice of gyros for IFR |
Interesting thread. On one end you have guys who want three attitude
gyros of some form, and on the other you have guys who are happy with
just a needle/ball or turn coordinator as a backup gyro. Both will work
just fine. Given the new crop of hand-held GPS receivers with HSI
displays, you could probably use that as a last-ditch gyro.
But it all depends on your skill level. If you practice you will be able
to fly safely using needle-ball and airspeed. If not you will probably
want a backup attitude indicator. How proficient do you want to be? This
is a case where you can make the decision to trade money for effort and
vice-versa.
(And to those of you getting ready to flame me, I agree that one should
be able to fly partial panel as required by the FAA. But I am addressing
the reality that not everyone who passed flying partial panel on their
check ride is really qualified to fly partial panel in actual IFR
conditions.)
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: formation flight comm attenuator |
sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Bob, this looks like it will do nicely. You're a packaging genius! I'll be
rolling one of these soon.
>
> Brian L., don't forget modulation in your power handling calc's. IIRC, a 5W
carrier AM xmtr will put out 10W at 100% modulation. The 5W figure is only accurate
for FM or PM, or "dead air" on AM. Not sure this makes much practical
difference, but it would be a shame to let the smoke out of one of these puppies
inside the cockpit, especially while your eyes need to be glued on Flight Lead.
Actually it isn't a problem. A 100% modulated AM signal has only 25% of
the power in the sidebands so a transmitter with a 10W carrier is only
radiating 12.5W when 100% modulated. This is why SSB is so much more
efficient. 100% of the power is concentrated in one sideband instead of
12.5% as with an AM signal. But I digress.
BTW, Bob's attenuator, while not as technically pure as mine, will work
just peachy for this application and is easier to build.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKY YOU! re:Formation flight comm attenuator |
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
> Just to further my education- why the 50 ohms to gnd when switched on,
Because that is what the transmitter wants to see. If the resistance
(impedance actually) is different from that by a factor of three or more
the transmitter could either be damaged or, if it has a protection
circuit, it could refuse to transmit.
> and what is rationale for the fancier switch than shown in the foto?
It would do a better job of presenting the aforementioned 50 ohm
impedance. Regardless, at the relatively low frequencies at which VHF
comms operate, Bob's wiring looks darned good and is unlikely to cause a
problem with your radio.
> Also- any reason not to do a TPDT switch for an annunciator light?
None at all.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass instrument panel |
| From: | "John Schroeder" <jschroeder(at)perigee.net> |
Hello Bob,
We looked at the Radio RAX, but they were a tad on the high side of the
cost curve. Our panel is finished and installed and we need to fly the
bird first.
Thanks for the info,
John
> We installed the trays on pieces of 3/4"x3/4" aluminum angle and the
> fastened them to the glass panel.
>
> John
> Lancair ES
>
>
> Good Evening John,
> You might consider using the RadioRax product (www.radiorax.com) in
> lieu of
> the angle aluminum. Not cheap, but make for very easy changes of
> equipment.
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Aerocomp Panel and For Sale |
I have an Aerocomp 7SL that I may or may not build. My neighbor is the owner of
Phoenix Composites and has built a couple of Aerocomps. They use a metal panel
fastened to the fiberglass. Although the glass is probably strong enough on
its own they do a metal panel for modular install capability. This was my plan
as well.
I did a carbon fiber overlay for my RV7. It is just for looks. Everybody who sees
the panel loves it. Definitely unique. Pictures can be seen on the Van's "first
flight" section.
Regarding Aerocomp, they have a great product. Unfortunately, their after sale
support is lacking. They are more interested in selling new kits than getting
more in the air regardless of who owns them. If you can get past this, the Aerocomp
is a great product.
I was looking at a kit in progress and called them. I was warned that they would
bad mouth the builder. Sure enough, they said not to trust the construction
because they didn't think the owner knew what he was doing. It was then pointed
out that the plane had been through THEIR Quick Build program. Then it was,
"Oh, oh, I must have that one confused with someone else." Piece of work!!
I have an Aerocomp 7SL for sale. It is well along with all fuselage bulkheads,
laminations and tail group completed and installed. The wings are closed with
tanks complete. The wings are wired for antennas, landing and position lights.
Ailerons and flaps complete. This one is set up for a recip engine (I was going
to use a Lycoming I0540). Lots of extra stuff.
This kit goes new for around $60K with no work done. I sacrifice this one for $38K.
By the way, the bulk of the construction was done by a former employee of
Aerocomp with lots of experience.
Email direct for pictures and further information.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
RV-7 N717EE Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
| From: | "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle(at)austin.utexas.edu> |
Ken,
You're probably right. The 1/2" tape should do fine.
Mark S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
FWIW I had no need for wider than 1/2" and in fact I printed even that
in double lines and cut it in half for quite a few places.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerocomp Panel and For Sale |
Darwin thanks for the dash info. Do you mind if I contact you off
list ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aerocomp Panel and For Sale
>
>
> I have an Aerocomp 7SL that I may or may not build. My neighbor is the
> owner of Phoenix Composites and has built a couple of Aerocomps. They use
> a metal panel fastened to the fiberglass. Although the glass is probably
> strong enough on its own they do a metal panel for modular install
> capability. This was my plan as well.
>
> I did a carbon fiber overlay for my RV7. It is just for looks. Everybody
> who sees the panel loves it. Definitely unique. Pictures can be seen on
> the Van's "first flight" section.
>
> Regarding Aerocomp, they have a great product. Unfortunately, their after
> sale support is lacking. They are more interested in selling new kits than
> getting more in the air regardless of who owns them. If you can get past
> this, the Aerocomp is a great product.
>
> I was looking at a kit in progress and called them. I was warned that they
> would bad mouth the builder. Sure enough, they said not to trust the
> construction because they didn't think the owner knew what he was doing.
> It was then pointed out that the plane had been through THEIR Quick Build
> program. Then it was, "Oh, oh, I must have that one confused with someone
> else." Piece of work!!
>
> I have an Aerocomp 7SL for sale. It is well along with all fuselage
> bulkheads, laminations and tail group completed and installed. The wings
> are closed with tanks complete. The wings are wired for antennas, landing
> and position lights. Ailerons and flaps complete. This one is set up for a
> recip engine (I was going to use a Lycoming I0540). Lots of extra stuff.
>
> This kit goes new for around $60K with no work done. I sacrifice this one
> for $38K. By the way, the bulk of the construction was done by a former
> employee of Aerocomp with lots of experience.
>
> Email direct for pictures and further information.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> RV-7 N717EE Flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
What I decided to do was backup my Bluemountain EFIS with a Dynon D
10A. No single fault other than lightning strike is likely to
disable both when endurance bus architecture is used.
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
>
>
>Bob,
>
> Is there any chance you can put your symbols library, or even all of
> your symbols and drawings, into a single ZIP file for downloading? It's
> a bit of a PITA to download 100 odd single files individually.
How about
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/61015_Symbols_Library.zip
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
Bruce,
My wife has soloed but no license and loves to fly, so I have GRT EFIS on
left, Dynon with batt backup on right, along with "her" EIS4000 which displays
engine parameters and feeds EFIS. No IFR for us, so this has gotta be
mega-redundancy... Then a Garmin 296 we can both see....
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce McGregor"
Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent years to the point where many
of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology and reliability progressed
to where a second EFIS with an independent power source could prudently be
used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of Dynon D-10A units could
serve in this manner and have the added advantage of a backup PFD
center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More SD8 Installation Questions |
>
>Hello Bob
>
> > This alternator was very popular
> > with Rutan's Variez builders looking for the ultimate in
> > light weight installations with no starter and minimum
> > battery. As the ONLY source of engine driven power, many
> > of these builders flew VFR night conditions where nav lts,
> > strobe and one radio were the only loads.
> >
> >
>As far as I know they had a Conti O-200 so they had the 1 : 1.5 gear
>
> From my old load analysis this would be (measured with 12.5 V):
>
> Strobes 3.1 A
> Nav 3.96 A
> Position 3.44 A
> KX-125 0.4 A
>
>In cruise with 12.5 V I see that the SD-8 delivers around 10.6 A the
>load without transmission would be according the numbers I measured on
>my Aeroflash units 10.9 A. Did I calculate someting wrong or did they
>use lower consumation units? The advantage without starter is, that the
>battery is still plenty full, but on the ground we would drain the whole
>load on the battery only and in cruise we just generate as much energy
>as in a NVFR situation is used. I guess this is a thight situation on
>the electrical side and one has to make a good calculation as to decide
>what to do.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to think about this
a bit. First, it was my error to cite the SD-8 as popular with
B&C's earliest customers building the Rutan Ez series airplanes.
The 200G was driven from a gear drive pad on the -12 case for
the O-200 and runs faster. This alternator is rated at 12.0A
and probably good for a tad more at depressed bus voltages still
high enough not to discharge the battery.
You're correct, an SD-8 would be undersized to support
a night vfr load without going to LED nav lights and perhaps
a lighter strobe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
Bob ...
I'm unable to open the Symbols Library ...
Is there a way to get and use these symbols without down loading the
supporting DFW file? It requires over 100MB $pace/time to download with
dial-up.
All we need are the key symbols used in the Z figures since many of those
are repeated throughout. What am I missing besides rapid download
capability?
Thanks ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>> Is there any chance you can put your symbols library, or even all of
>> your symbols and drawings, into a single ZIP file for downloading? It's
>> a bit of a PITA to download 100 odd single files individually.
>
> How about
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/61015_Symbols_Library.zip
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
All, there has been so much conversation about symbol libraries, I figured
I'd offer one that I just did. So, here ya go.
I needed a quick set of the RayAllen Trim indicator components. So I set
down with Calipers and TurboCad, and did them quickly. Feel free to use as
you see fit, they should be assumed to be "close" and perhaps NOT "perfect".
I included the cutout size as well (red box). These are grouped as a whole
assembly, but the switch is separate from the indicator.
These are not to 3D, and the holes are placeholder and may not be accurate
to the exact placement or size for drilling. I needed something, quick and
dirty, to come up with a basic size and shape for a sub panel on a console.
Have fun,
Alan
http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/Trim%20Panel.TCW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take
their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat.
GMC has a point!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
>
>Bob ...
>I'm unable to open the Symbols Library ...
>Is there a way to get and use these symbols without down loading the
>supporting DFW file? It requires over 100MB $pace/time to download with
>dial-up.
>All we need are the key symbols used in the Z figures since many of those
>are repeated throughout. What am I missing besides rapid download
>capability?
>Thanks ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
My apologies. I'd forgotten about some of the excess baggage in
that directory. I simply zipped the whole thing as-is. I just went through
all the files and dumped the mechanical and composite drawings. I think
the files are 99% pure schematic symbols. The new file is only
425K. Try this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
flame suit technology
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, |
flame suit technology
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I'd say you have that analogy backwards. Would you expect a surgeon to
extract your filet mignon from the beef carcass? Would he even know where
to begin or the right tools for the job?
Steve Sampson said:
>
>
> I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take
> their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat.
>
> GMC has a point!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" <BigD(at)DaveMorris.com> technology |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit |
technology
You're saying you don't think you could cut a side of beef to make
hamburgers, even without 7 years of schooling? We're building airplanes,
not doing neurosurgery. :)
Dave
At 01:47 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take
>their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat.
>
>GMC has a point!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
Dave Morris "BigD" a crit :
>
>You're saying you don't think you could cut a side of beef to make
>hamburgers, even without 7 years of schooling?
>
Hmm, I'd rather have filet mignon than hamburger...
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson(at)highrf.com> |
Quick revision, that prolly got the thru holes where they should be from a
drill standpoint.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K.
Adamson
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Symbols
-->
All, there has been so much conversation about symbol libraries, I figured
I'd offer one that I just did. So, here ya go.
I needed a quick set of the RayAllen Trim indicator components. So I set
down with Calipers and TurboCad, and did them quickly. Feel free to use as
you see fit, they should be assumed to be "close" and perhaps NOT "perfect".
I included the cutout size as well (red box). These are grouped as a whole
assembly, but the switch is separate from the indicator.
These are not to 3D, and the holes are placeholder and may not be accurate
to the exact placement or size for drilling. I needed something, quick and
dirty, to come up with a basic size and shape for a sub panel on a console.
Have fun,
Alan
http://www.highrf.com/Rockets/Trim%20Panel.TCW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad Oliver <brad(at)rv7factory.com> |
| Subject: | Ideal Crimpmaster Dies??? |
While I am not yet at the wiring stage of my project, I am starting to
accumulate the needed tools. I have an Ideal Crimpmaster from a prior
project, but I need new dies for it and I am confused by which to buy.
I am hoping one of you can set me straight.
Ideal lists two dies which look from the diagram and specs to be
identical, but which is the right one for my needs?
30-579 Die Set, Insulated Terminals
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-579?OpenDocument
or
30-594 Die Set, Insulated Slide-On Connectors
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-594?OpenDocument
On the coax side, I found this die for the Crimpmaster, but I am not
sure if it is the one I need... comments?
30-587 Die Set, RG-58, RG-174, RG-8218
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-587?OpenDocument
Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Cheers,
Brad Oliver
RV-7
Livermore, CA
www.RV7Factory.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harold Kovac" <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
And then there's the PHD in Nuclear Physics who can't change out his own
faulty electric wall outlet and calls a neighbor to help. Great
theoretically, but cannot put his ideas into practice, ho hum.
Harold
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer, flame suit
technology
>
>
> I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take
> their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat.
>
> GMC has a point!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 82 Msgs - 01/04/06 |
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Zmx5IGludG8gYQoobWV0YXBob3JpY2FsKSBib3ggY2FueW9uLS0tdW5sZXNzIHlvdSBoYXZlIGVu
b3VnaCBtb3RvciB0byBnZXQgb3V0IG9mIGl0CnN0cmFpZ2h0IHVwLiAgV2UgaGFkIHRoYXQgdG9v
IQoKCgpFbm91Z2ggb2YgYSByYW50LiAgVGltZSB0byBnbyBob21lLiAgS2VlcCB5b3VyIG1hY2gg
dXAgYW5kIHlvdXIgcG93ZGVyIGRyeSwKZ3V5cy4uLmFuZCAib25lIG1vcmUgd2F5IG91dCIgaW4g
eW91ciBoaXAgcG9ja2V0Li4uCgoKCgoKU2hpbG9ohQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
Hi all,
I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is left on
would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now it has occurred to
me that light would become annoying after a while. After thinking about it i
decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the same terminal on the ign. switch that
grounds the ignition [ I am only very slowly learning a little about all of
this] so now I am thinking to put a relay on to the lead from
the alt . This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped.
Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning light? I havent
seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have an eis with alarms. Will
my idea work and is there any schematic anywhere in Bob's book that would
get me thru this? thanks in advance
Bob Noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
Bob,
What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar, leave
it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the master,
usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention before you leave
and remind you of the Master left on.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is left
> on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now it has
> occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while. After
> thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the same
> terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am only very
> slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am thinking to put a
> relay on to the lead from the alt . This relay would only
> close when power from the alternator stopped. Then my idiot light would go
> on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning light? I havent seen the need for a
> warning light as I plan to have an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and
> is there any schematic anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this?
> thanks in advance
> Bob Noffs
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
bob noffs wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is left on
would be handy.
Bob,
If you have an oil pressure switch to activate a Hobbs (hour meter),
check out this schematic from 'lectric Bob.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Gaging/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
When the engine runs, no warning light, and the Hobbs counts the hours.
When the oil pressure drops to zero the oil pressure warning circuit is
closed and the oil pressure light/buzzer come on........as long as the
master switch is still on. Turn off the master, and the oil pressure
light/buzzer goes out. You could label the light "Oil Pressure / Master
ON".
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Brainstorming, not criticizing here..
If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe
on would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery
down)..
An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little
combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the
master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open
while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but
not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the
airplane after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on
Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some
aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at
night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat
switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the
master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch,
maybe? Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex?
If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could
be illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very
annoying to be around.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Bob,
> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar,
> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the
> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention before
> you leave and remind you of the Master left on.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
> To: "aeroelectric list"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is
>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now
>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while.
>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the
>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am
>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am
>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt .
>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped.
>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning
>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have
>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic
>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance
>> Bob Noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
>
>Hi all,
> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is
> left on would be handy.
been selling those for years . . . see:
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.html
or build your own:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
It has the added advantage of being active notification
of alternator being off line either due to failure or
having been shut off. that's what I call multi-tasking.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian-yak(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
Steve Sampson wrote:
>
> I cant resist asking how many on the list would ask the butcher to take
> their appendix out rather than a qualified Dr. They both cut meat.
A butcher is not a doctor and vice-versa. We were talking about
engineers and engineers. Your metaphor is invalid. If you want a more
valid metaphor you can talk about doctors trained in US medical schools
vs. someone learning from a doctor in the real world but without the
benefit of the formal, structured education. Remember, in medical school
you are just learning from other doctors. That could happen anywhere.
And also remember that often the people teaching engineering in school
have never had the experience of doing engineering in the real world.
The real question is whether you can be an engineer without the paper.
The degree and the capability are not the same thing. There are
incompetent degreed engineers (I know many) and there are very competent
engineers (I am defining that term to mean someone who successfully and
properly performs the function of an engineer) who have no degree.
What the degree says is that you have been exposed to all of the
background that an engineer needs to be able to become an engineer. It
does not say that you have actually become an engineer. Certainly
someone could learn what they need to know on their own and become a
fully-functional and productive engineer without benefit of a degree. It
would be more difficult but it is possible.
> GMC has a point!
GMC is wedded to the idea that the paper somehow makes the man. I
disagree with that notion.
--
Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.
brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ideal Crimpmaster Dies??? |
>
>
>While I am not yet at the wiring stage of my project, I am starting to
>accumulate the needed tools. I have an Ideal Crimpmaster from a prior
>project, but I need new dies for it and I am confused by which to buy.
>I am hoping one of you can set me straight.
>
>Ideal lists two dies which look from the diagram and specs to be
>identical, but which is the right one for my needs?
>30-579 Die Set, Insulated Terminals
>http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-579?OpenDocument
>or
This may very well be suited to installation of PIDG terminals
but wouldn't know without trying it. Odds are favorable but as
we've discovered with several tools in the past here on the
list, not all tools are made the same.
>30-594 Die Set, Insulated Slide-On Connectors
>http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-594?OpenDocument
Don't know what this is: If you're installing PIDG terminals, then
the crimp tool to apply them is the same as for the ring terminals.
I'm unable to deduce from the description as to the applicability
of this die set mostly because it doesn't define the matching terminals.
>On the coax side, I found this die for the Crimpmaster, but I am not
>sure if it is the one I need... comments?
>30-587 Die Set, RG-58, RG-174, RG-8218
>http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-587?OpenDocument
If you buy your connectors from B&C, then the .213 and .068
inch pockets will install their connectors . . . along with
many others which you'll have to try. It would be nice if the
connector manufacturers would put the die sizes for installation
on their connectors. But .213 and .068 are very popular sizes
and the odds are in your favor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer, flame suit technology |
I have to chime in here and say that in my 20-odd years in the computer
design business (I'm a software guy) the very best engineers I have ever
worked with did not have degrees. They were self taught. They started
tinkering when they were kids and when they got to college the
engineering curriculum put them to sleep. They were already doing
engineering for pay on the side so they just dropped out and got to work.
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 01/05/2006 6:52:07 PM Central Standard Time,
icubob(at)newnorth.net writes:
I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is left on
would be handy.
>>>
Hi Bob-
I put one of these fwf wired to NC contacts on my oil pressure switch- master
has never been left on and it sure gets folks attention around the airplane
(like at a fly in b'fast) when ya hit the master switch...
http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=12722+SU
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Holland" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
OVM arrived today, will install this weekend and run some tests. Thanks ever so
much for checking this out. I don't have the equipment or skills to attempt
it and am glad this has alerted B&C to a possible parts problem.
I'll fly it with the fix and try to simulate the voltage fluctuations that appeared
to trigger the trips and report back.
I may have additional problems however. The charging voltage seems a bit high
at 14.8 volts indicated. This would seem to reduce the "head-room" for the OVM
circuit? My recollection is that most charging systems stabilize at around
13.8 while mine appears to remain higher than that by about a volt.
In testing this how much voltage difference should there be between the b-lead
and ground versus the field lead and ground, with the alternator running? I'm
beginning to suspect that there may be something amiss in the field circuit that
accounts for a higher output voltage than "normal".
I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire for the
field, is this adequate?
Regards,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer.... |
The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently discovered
three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut Steaks, and Flat Iron
Steaks. This is technology right up there with integrated circuits as far
as I'm concerned.
My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best, but was
sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education. I know this
caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were hired at a salary
above his...company policy you know. But the real brains were in awe of his talents.
As a result he had a part in many of the major technological projects
of his time.
When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens dipped
into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators, personal computers
were but a dream. The internet was decades from existing. The methods of acquiring
and using information changed radically. One could now toss grenades in
most town libraries with no fear of harming anyone. The time of bricks and mortar
education is nearing the end.
If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person should study
in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study what good teachers
are teaching, what really engages other students--it doesn't matter at all what
the subject is.
Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a Gentleman should
not work with his hands. Having initials after your name certificated you
to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a peculiar Anglo-American notion
not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese.
Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to the court,
I added some random and mysterious initials after my name "SDQ3". I did this
because I was wondering if the initials would make the court think I was someone
special. If challenged I would say they were just meaningless typos, and
apologize. It is beyond the scope of this note to describe the procedings, but
I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if you are faced with a similar situation).
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
" I would have made a good Pope."
-- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
> The website lists a product called "laser film". This is film that is
> directly printed on in a standard laser printer or copier. I have not
> contacted them yet so I don't know what the next step is in getting
> this film to a screen printable material. Do you know?
How about QuickMark by 3M....also there's a PhotoMetal process,
your artwork applied to photosensitive aluminum. Exposed turns
black, letters stay aluminum colored.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Symbols library
>
>
>
>>
>>Bob ...
>>I'm unable to open the Symbols Library ...
>>Is there a way to get and use these symbols without down loading the
>>supporting DFW file? It requires over 100MB $pace/time to download with
>>dial-up.
>>All we need are the key symbols used in the Z figures since many of those
>>are repeated throughout. What am I missing besides rapid download
>>capability?
>>Thanks ...
>>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
> My apologies. I'd forgotten about some of the excess baggage in
> that directory. I simply zipped the whole thing as-is. I just went
> through
> all the files and dumped the mechanical and composite drawings. I think
> the files are 99% pure schematic symbols. The new file is only
> 425K. Try this:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip
>
> Bob . . .
>
Thank you Bob ...
Your above link enabled me to download the icons of each file but then I
find I don't have the program to open them. I've spent a lot of time trying
to get to get the solution with no luck.
What is the program title and version and might it be available on ebay?
Thanks for your help ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer.... |
Sounds like wonderfully entertaining reading. Please continue...
Bevan
fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer....
-->
The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently
discovered three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut Steaks,
and Flat Iron Steaks. This is technology right up there with integrated
circuits as far as I'm concerned.
My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best, but
was sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education. I know
this caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were hired at a
salary above his...company policy you know. But the real brains were in awe
of his talents. As a result he had a part in many of the major technological
projects of his time.
When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens
dipped into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators, personal
computers were but a dream. The internet was decades from existing. The
methods of acquiring and using information changed radically. One could now
toss grenades in most town libraries with no fear of harming anyone. The
time of bricks and mortar education is nearing the end.
If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person should
study in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study what good
teachers are teaching, what really engages other students--it doesn't matter
at all what the subject is.
Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a
Gentleman should not work with his hands. Having initials after your name
certificated you to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a peculiar
Anglo-American notion not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese.
Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to the
court, I added some random and mysterious initials after my name "SDQ3". I
did this because I was wondering if the initials would make the court think
I was someone special. If challenged I would say they were just meaningless
typos, and apologize. It is beyond the scope of this note to describe the
procedings, but I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if you are faced with a
similar situation).
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
(508) 764-2072
" I would have made a good Pope."
-- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | preston hall <bigp368(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
--- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
> Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> My wife has soloed but no license and loves to fly,
> so I have GRT EFIS on
> left, Dynon with batt backup on right, along with
> "her" EIS4000 which displays
> engine parameters and feeds EFIS. No IFR for us, so
> this has gotta be
> mega-redundancy... Then a Garmin 296 we can both
> see....
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce
> McGregor"
>
>
>
> Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent
> years to the point where many
> of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology
> and reliability progressed
> to where a second EFIS with an independent power
> source could prudently be
> used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of
> Dynon D-10A units could
> serve in this manner and have the added advantage
> of a backup PFD
> center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | preston hall <bigp368(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Backup EFIS? |
--- Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
> Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> My wife has soloed but no license and loves to fly,
> so I have GRT EFIS on
> left, Dynon with batt backup on right, along with
> "her" EIS4000 which displays
> engine parameters and feeds EFIS. No IFR for us, so
> this has gotta be
> mega-redundancy... Then a Garmin 296 we can both
> see....
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS Backup EFIS?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce
> McGregor"
>
>
>
> Experimental EFIS units have matured in recent
> years to the point where many
> of us will use one as a PFD. But has technology
> and reliability progressed
> to where a second EFIS with an independent power
> source could prudently be
> used to backup the PFD? For example, a pair of
> Dynon D-10A units could
> serve in this manner and have the added advantage
> of a backup PFD
> center/right that the co-pilot could see too.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
This is taking on elements of the situation described in the old story
wherein NASA spent millions developing a ballpoint pen that would allow
astronauts to write while upside down, while the Russian cosmonauts simply
used pencils.
Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution:
1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist.
2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:
Brainstorming, not criticizing here..
If you are doing debug/maintenance work in the hangar, having the strobe
on would drive me a little batty (not to mention running the battery
down)..
An alternate/additional idea: add a cabin door/canopy switch, and a little
combinatorial switching logic.. When the cabin door is closed, AND the
master is on, the strobe is enabled. That way, if you leave the door open
while you are working on the plane, you can have the master turned on, but
not be annoyed by the strobe. Close the door to walk away from the
airplane after forgetting to turn the master off, and the strobe turns on
Disadvantages of using the strobe connected to the master switch: Some
aviators find it offensive when other aviators operate their strobes at
night while on the ground. That might suggest that you install a defeat
switch. And that means that you may forget to un-defeat it, and leave the
master turned on, and kill the battery... A latching defeat switch,
maybe? Cycling the master switch resets the defeat. Okay, too complex?
If your airplane is equipped with LED position lights, maybe these could
be illuminated instead, as they are low enough draw, and aren't very
annoying to be around.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> Bob,
> What I would suggest..... if you have a rudder tip strobe or similar,
> leave it on all the time. If you step out of the bird and forget the
> master, usually the strobe blinking away will get your attention before
> you leave and remind you of the Master left on.
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net>
> To: "aeroelectric list"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I have been thinking an ''idiot light'' to tell me when the master is
>> left on would be handy. Of course , i learned this the hard way. Now
>> it has occurred to me that light would become annoying after a while.
>> After thinking about it i decided it wouldnt work to wire it to the
>> same terminal on the ign. switch that grounds the ignition [ I am
>> only very slowly learning a little about all of this] so now I am
>> thinking to put a relay on to the lead from the alt .
>> This relay would only close when power from the alternator stopped.
>> Then my idiot light would go on. Am I reinventing the alt. warning
>> light? I havent seen the need for a warning light as I plan to have
>> an eis with alarms. Will my idea work and is there any schematic
>> anywhere in Bob's book that would get me thru this? thanks in advance
>> Bob Noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
Opps! I thought you'd been following the threads on various and
sundry CAD and illustration programs here on the list. What
program had you intended to use? My library was generated in
AutoCAD . . . a very mature software package with a price to
match. However, a number of upstarts have cracked the code for
AutoCAD's native .dwg format so that they too can open, edit,
print and save AutoCAD's files. One such program is TurboCAD.
I just received a copy of V10 purchased off Ebay last week
for about $23 post paid. See:
http://ebay.com and search on "turbocad"
I wish I'd purchased an older version now. There are some 9.2
packages for even less money. What I don't know is how far back
you can go in TurboCAD and still open the drawings I generate
in AutoCAD 2000. I believe someone on the List mentioned an
version older than 10.0 that still worked with my drawings . . .
perhaps he'll jump back in here and enlighten us.
Be aware also that there are a number of wire-books in progress
on my website. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples
One in particular
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples/LAIVP.DWG
is an extensive piece of work I did for a client several years
ago that had to abandon his project and terminate my services.
This drawing has about 90% of the work for your airplane's wire
book already done. Your major task is to find software you're
willing to pay for and then invest the time to learn to use
it as needed to edit the drawing.
I'm going to load up TurboCAD this weekend and play with
it a bit.
Bob . . .
> >
> > My apologies. I'd forgotten about some of the excess baggage in
> > that directory. I simply zipped the whole thing as-is. I just went
> > through
> > all the files and dumped the mechanical and composite drawings. I think
> > the files are 99% pure schematic symbols. The new file is only
> > 425K. Try this:
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Symbols_Library/0_ACAD_All_Symbols.zip
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>Thank you Bob ...
>Your above link enabled me to download the icons of each file but then I
>find I don't have the program to open them. I've spent a lot of time trying
>to get to get the solution with no luck.
>
>What is the program title and version and might it be available on ebay?
>Thanks for your help ...
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>
>
>--
>
>
>-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------------------
< Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition >
< of man. Advances which permit this norm to be >
< exceeded -- here and there, now and then -- are the >
< work of an extremely small minority, frequently >
< despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed >
< by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny >
< minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes >
< happens) is driven out of a society, the people >
< then slip back into abject poverty. >
< >
< This is known as "bad luck". >
< -Lazarus Long- >
<------------------------------------------------------>
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Z-24 Nusance trips |
>
>OVM arrived today, will install this weekend and run some tests. Thanks
>ever so much for checking this out. I don't have the equipment or skills
>to attempt it and am glad this has alerted B&C to a possible parts problem.
My pleasure! One of the most difficult tasks a designer
has to do is offer field support on the products he/she
creates. The customer's application is the final test-bed
and one always hopes that problems will be few, small and
easily fixed. But they cannot even be addressed without
dialog and cooperation between the consumer and supplier
after the product is delivered. I and all honorable suppliers
DEPEND on dialog and cooperation to make sure the customer
gets good value for their purchase.
The ONLY situation that has provoked me to considerable
anger in the various discussions about my products is when
individuals indicated that they've injected themselves into
the relationship between me and my customers to the extent
that there were "unhappy users" who I was not permitted to
know. Further, it was easy to assume that those same customers
were spreading bad words about my products and services.
I have no problem competing with any other honorable supplier
of similar goods and services. But when subject of an overt
crusade to discredit my talents and services while working to
prevent me from making it right with a customer . . . well,
I think it speaks volumes about the perpetrator.
I've alerted B&C about our exchange. The OV you purchased
SHOULD have been fitted with all mods appropriate to the
current configuration. They're looking into how you came
to receive the one you had.
>I'll fly it with the fix and try to simulate the voltage fluctuations that
>appeared to trigger the trips and report back.
>
>I may have additional problems however. The charging voltage seems a bit
>high at 14.8 volts indicated. This would seem to reduce the "head-room"
>for the OVM circuit? My recollection is that most charging systems
>stabilize at around 13.8 while mine appears to remain higher than that by
>about a volt.
Yes, that's a bit high. Not terribly significant with
respect to the OVM but kinda hard on batteries.
>In testing this how much voltage difference should there be between the
>b-lead and ground versus the field lead and ground, with the alternator
>running? I'm beginning to suspect that there may be something amiss in
>the field circuit that accounts for a higher output voltage than "normal".
What you need to know is what voltage the REGULATOR thinks
it sees. See figure 4-5 and associated text in the 'Connection.
>I followed Z-13 & Z24 when wiring the disconnect relay and used 20g wire
>for the field, is this adequate?
Yes. I presume you have a single-point ground also. We'll need
to get some high resolution (not necessarily "accurate" but
resolution to 0.1v or better). See what V1 (bus) and V2 (regulator
sense) voltages are. What kind of regulator are you using?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | s, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List: |
Good Morning Bill,
That is fine for those who always do everything correctly.
There are others of us that have found by unfortunate experience that we do
make mistakes. Among those mistakes are omissions of actions called out in
the check list that we thought we had accomplished. It also includes having
forgotten to use a checklist even though we tell ourselves to always use the
checklist.
I have a reasonable number of hours flying single pilot and a lot more
experience flying as a required crew member on aircraft requiring a multiple pilot
crew.
It is my considered opinion that aviation safety is best advanced by
establishing procedures that do NOT rely on we humans doing everything correctly.
The desired level of safety comes from establishing procedures and developing
equipment that helps us discover our errors before those errors result in an
incident.
I strongly feel that the best move anyone can make to increase the safety of
an operation is to add a second responsible crew member. Unfortunately,
single pilot operations are required for most of us.
Checklists are great. Flow patterns are great. Habit patterns are
important.
However, humans do make mistakes.
Regardless of how omnipotent most of feel we are, I have yet to see a pilot
who does not make mistakes. That includes the one who says: "I will never
land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check list backed up by a
fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate."
Personally, I will bet a milkshake that many pilots who made an
unintentional gear up landing would have told you before hand that it could not
happen to
him/her.
The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't
happen to me!
A little fear is a wonderful thing.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:19:06 A.M. Central Standard Time,
bdenton(at)bdenton.com writes:
Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution:
1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist.
2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Anderson" <s_s_and(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: what is an engineer.... |
I have an engineering degree and am a PE. However my degree is in
geophysical engineering, which is very rare. I generally deal with
geologists but seldom geological or geophysical engineers. The difference is
striking as engineers are taught to think in a disiplined way. For better or
for worse. Touched upon in the discussion is sometimes undisiplined "off the
wall" ideas have great value.
Having received my engineers degree 30 years ago, most if not all I learned
in college is obsolete. What I have observed is in today's high speed
economy and knowledge based world it is the entreprenuer that wins the day.
Engineers that are narrow minded, dogmatic, have no people skills are doomed
to fail or at least never live up to their true capacity. On the other hand,
observant ambitious driven talented people can contribute greatly to the
cause.
My cause is building a plane in my garage. Bob is a great source if
information. Some of it very good, some of it not applicable to my project.
I believe that we all must keep in mind that individuals get on the web and
talk about a subject where their experience is based on building one plane.
When I attended Alexander's building school in Griffin, I met Mike and jacob
who had helped many individuals construct many planes. Mike told me with a
great degree of experience to beware of opiniions based on a limited amount
of experience.
The bottom line is Bob's or GMC's info have some value. I disagree with
GMC's way of displaying his opinion. I knew he was an engineer for his lack
of people skills, an engineer's trademark. Good info displayed in a pompous
arrogant way does not really help the cause (building homebuilt planes).
Thankfully people like Dan C, Sam B, Dave D. Gary N etc are not only great
sources but do it with the knowledge that their are people behind the
technobox. That is why for the most part, this has been a great process.
Thankfully we all have a delete key and I use it with inpunity.
>From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: what is an engineer.... Date: Thu, 5 Jan
>
>
>
>The difference between Surgeons and Butchers is that Butchers recently
>discovered three new steaks: Shoulder (or Petite) Tender, Ranch Cut Steaks,
>and Flat Iron Steaks. This is technology right up there with integrated
>circuits as far as I'm concerned.
>
>My dad was a non-degreed engineer who was right up there with the best, but
>was sensitive all his days regarding the lack of a formal education. I know
>this caused him some pain when wet-behind-the-engineers kids were hired at
>a salary above his...company policy you know. But the real brains were in
>awe of his talents. As a result he had a part in many of the major
>technological projects of his time.
>
>When I went to grade school I was taught to write with steel-tipped pens
>dipped into inkwells. In college there were no pocket calculators, personal
>computers were but a dream. The internet was decades from existing. The
>methods of acquiring and using information changed radically. One could now
>toss grenades in most town libraries with no fear of harming anyone. The
>time of bricks and mortar education is nearing the end.
>
>If I were asked what a bright technically sophisticated young person should
>study in school, I would have to side with Thom Friedman--study what good
>teachers are teaching, what really engages other students--it doesn't
>matter at all what the subject is.
>
>Certificates and diplomas are part of the "English Disease", that a
>Gentleman should not work with his hands. Having initials after your name
>certificated you to a life free of digging in the soil. This is a peculiar
>Anglo-American notion not shared by the Germans and Russians and Chinese.
>
>Small story--I recently fought a LIDAR speeding ticket. In my letter to the
>court, I added some random and mysterious initials after my name "SDQ3". I
>did this because I was wondering if the initials would make the court think
>I was someone special. If challenged I would say they were just meaningless
>typos, and apologize. It is beyond the scope of this note to describe the
>procedings, but I beat the ticket. (Details offlist if you are faced with a
>similar situation).
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>(508) 764-2072
>
>" I would have made a good Pope."
> -- Richard M. Nixon (1913-1994)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Denton" <bdenton(at)bdenton.com> |
| Subject: | lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List: |
Points well made and taken...
RE: "I will never land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check
list backed up by a fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate."
As a CFII friend of mine used to say: "There are only two types of pilots
flying retractable gear airplanes: those who have made a gear-up landing,
and those who will".
You are correct, humans do make mistakes. And while I am reasonably tolerant
of the mistakes of others, I have no tolerance for the mistakes I myself
make, and tend to beat myself to death looking for ways to avoid them.
But back to my original "checklist" statement. If a pilot consistently
forgets the item "Turn Off Master" on a checklist, one can only wonder what
other items on what other checklists he/she is consistently missing.
And if they don't consistently miss turning off the master, is it enough of
a problem to make it worthwhile to employ Rube Goldberg-ian measures to
remind them to do so? Might not a dead battery on a severe-clear day serve
as a good, yet harmless, object lesson?
And bet or no, I hope to enjoy a milkshake with you somewhere along the
way...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Subject: Check lists, Was: Master switch warning, AeroElectric-List:
Good Morning Bill,
That is fine for those who always do everything correctly.
There are others of us that have found by unfortunate experience that we do
make mistakes. Among those mistakes are omissions of actions called out in
the check list that we thought we had accomplished. It also includes
having
forgotten to use a checklist even though we tell ourselves to always use
the
checklist.
I have a reasonable number of hours flying single pilot and a lot more
experience flying as a required crew member on aircraft requiring a multiple
pilot
crew.
It is my considered opinion that aviation safety is best advanced by
establishing procedures that do NOT rely on we humans doing everything
correctly.
The desired level of safety comes from establishing procedures and
developing
equipment that helps us discover our errors before those errors result in
an
incident.
I strongly feel that the best move anyone can make to increase the safety
of
an operation is to add a second responsible crew member. Unfortunately,
single pilot operations are required for most of us.
Checklists are great. Flow patterns are great. Habit patterns are
important.
However, humans do make mistakes.
Regardless of how omnipotent most of feel we are, I have yet to see a pilot
who does not make mistakes. That includes the one who says: "I will never
land gear up because I have developed a fool proof check list backed up by a
fool proof flow pattern from which I never deviate."
Personally, I will bet a milkshake that many pilots who made an
unintentional gear up landing would have told you before hand that it could
not happen to
him/her.
The pilot most likely to have an incident is the one who says it can't
happen to me!
A little fear is a wonderful thing.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:19:06 A.M. Central Standard Time,
bdenton(at)bdenton.com writes:
Here's a nice quick-and-dirty and cheap 2-step solution:
1. Add "Turn off Master" to checklist.
2. Follow checklist. Which you should be doing anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own
experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my
label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser
printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders.
I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have
no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable
scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of
individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are
when printed.
Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the
scotch tape on the panel.
The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots
spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost?
Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665
I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full sheets
to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a crucial
label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 years from
now you can hit print and get another set.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B
Tomm
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
The website lists a product called "laser film". This is film that is
directly printed on in a standard laser printer or copier. I have not
contacted them yet so I don't know what the next step is in getting this
film to a screen printable material. Do you know?
Bevan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 53 Msgs - 01/05/06 |
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aIUK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Labels |
Morning, Frank...
I like this idea...a lot.
The reason it appeals to me more than some of the other ideas I've seen
here, is that I have already laid out my panel in Visual Cadd, and have
reserved a layer for the labeling. When I'm ready to print the labels,
I only have to print the layer with the labeling on it...and printing
directly to the Avery clear, sticky backed labels is easy by just moving
the full size cadd drawing around on the 8 by 10 label surface then
printing.
Another thought...I can probably print out the instrument "holes" (the
layer I'm using to cut the holes in the panel) as well on the same
sheet, and use them for alignment!
The rest of your procedure with the 3M tape assures me that the
alignment remains the same as designed as I trim the label sheets.
Maybe a clear tape or finish might be needed over the printing after
installed...but easy to do...
I Like it!
Harley
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>I havent been following this thread too close but to add my own
>experience...I used full sheets of label clear label film..and did my
>label drawings in MSWord an printed them on the colour laser
>printer...Came out awesome with black lettering and blue borders.
>
>I then cut around the labels with an exacto knife so that I would have
>no label material outside the label border. Then I used clear removable
>scotch tape on the front of the labels to peel off a whole line of
>individual labels from the backing sheet in the exact spacing they are
>when printed.
>
>Now I could position a whole line of labels on the panel by placing the
>scotch tape on the panel.
>
>The downside is the label sheets come in packs of 20 so I have lots
>spare if anyone wants a few to split the cost?
>
>Labels are Avery clear full sheet Labels part number, 8665
>
>I have used two labels so far and would recommend you have 5 full sheets
>to allow for screw ups and the fact you will inevitably forget a crucial
>label and you really want all your labels on one sheet, so 5 years from
>now you can hit print and get another set.
>
>Frank
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Labels |
Were you able to use msword to do the boarders? Thanks Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Labels |
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Yes you just draw a little box in MS word, and in any colour you
want...Piece of cake.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TimRhod(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Instrument Panel Labels
Were you able to use msword to do the boarders? Thanks Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Symbols library |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> Opps! I thought you'd been following the threads on various and
> sundry CAD and illustration programs here on the list. What
> program had you intended to use? My library was generated in
> AutoCAD . . .
>
> I believe someone on the List mentioned an
> version older than 10.0 that still worked with my drawings . . .
> perhaps he'll jump back in here and enlighten us.
"Someone" would be me. I am using TurboCAD Deluxe V10.2 published by IMSI.
http://www.imsisoft.com/index.asp
IMSI publishes several CAD packages. TurboCAD Professional is the full
2D/3D package similar to AutoCAD, and sells for $700+. TurboCAD Deluxe
is a trimmed down 2D/3D version and lists for $130 from IMSI, $100 from
CompUSA for the latest version, V11. TurboCAD Designer is an even more
trimmed down package ($30 from IMSI and CompUSA, reads AutoCAD
files......may be perfectly fine for what we are doing, no experience
with this one so I don't know.). There are also some Mac versions.
Bob's drawings and wire books are done in AutoCAD and saved in the
AutoCAD .dwg file format. The AutoCAD file format has become somewhat
the standard for desktop CAD packages. There are several desktop CAD
packages that can read (and sometimes write) AutoCAD files. Any package
that can read AutoCAD files should work with Bob's drawings and wire books.
I started my project using TurboCAD Deluxe V8, and have since upgraded
to V10. Starting with the V8 package, I was able to read Bob's and all
other AutoCAD files I found on builder websites.
Bob found some older versions of TurboCAD (Deluxe, I assume) on Ebay
for considerably less $$ than the latest release.
Happy electrical designing.
Steve
RV-6A builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Frank
A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean about
the borders...
Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up for
affect and color!
I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment in
my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing
something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of
"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines.
I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional
and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel
(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up
with this idea.
Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder!
Time to rethink!
Harley
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot.
>
>Frank
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> |
OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to
Drool over! ;-)
Deems Davis # 406
Wings
http://deemsrv10.com/
Harley wrote:
>
>Frank
>
>A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean about
>the borders...
>
>Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up for
>affect and color!
>
>I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment in
>my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing
>something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of
>"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines.
>
>I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional
>and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel
>(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up
>with this idea.
>
>Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder!
>
>Time to rethink!
>
>Harley
>
>
>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot.
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Could I have a picture too Thanks? Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
A link I don't (on my hard drive)...How do I post it to the group?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems
Davis
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic
-->
OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to
Drool over! ;-)
Deems Davis # 406
Wings
http://deemsrv10.com/
Harley wrote:
>-->
>
>Frank
>
>A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean
>about the borders...
>
>Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up
>for affect and color!
>
>I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment
>in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing
>something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of
>"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines.
>
>I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional
>and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel
>(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up
>with this idea.
>
>Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder!
>
>Time to rethink!
>
>Harley
>
>
>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot.
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | what is an engineer |
1/6/2006
I am not enjoying any of the pettyness and self-centeredness associated with
this thread, but I think the following obituary sheds some light on what may
be accomplished, technically and otherwise, by a non degreed person:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502310.html
OC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems
Davis
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic
-->
OK. how about posting the photo (or a link to it) for the rest of us to
Drool over! ;-)
Deems Davis # 406
Wings
http://deemsrv10.com/
Harley wrote:
>-->
>
>Frank
>
>A picture sure is worth a thousand words! Now I see what you mean
>about the borders...
>
>Nice looking panel! As you said, too bad the Dynon's weren't lit up
>for affect and color!
>
>I designed a couple of panels for pharmaceutical production equipment
>in my former life. For my Long EZ's panel, I was thinking of doing
>something similar to what I did on them, and that was to sort of
>"cluster" instruments by using decorative boundary lines.
>
>I couldn't come up with a good way to do it and still look professional
>and not like someone stuck some automotive trim tape around the panel
>(which is what I did on the ones I did for Pennwalt) until you came up
>with this idea.
>
>Thanks for the photo...it's going in my panel folder!
>
>Time to rethink!
>
>Harley
>
>
>Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Forgot to turn on the Dynon's for this shot.
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Backup EFIS? |
attitude gyro
Turn and Bank
turn coordinator
Turn Indicator
I'm I the only one who gets a headache when reading these discussions? All the
different instruments with ever so slightly different names that give ever so
slightly different information. What I need is a cheat sheet that clearly and
concisely explains which is which that I can keep in my wallet.
Is there at least a website somewhere that I could bookmark to clear the fog?
--
,|"|"|, |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta |
o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr(at)cox.net> |
If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else
related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be
pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com
You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure
to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll
add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive
file name.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
And for anyone else who asked, I just placed the picture of Frank's
panel with the Avery clear label labels on my website here:
www.agelesswings.com/LONG_EZ/short!%20(160).JPG
Hope you don't mind, Frank...if so, just let me know...I'll remove it.
Thought I'd save you a bit of emailing until Bob gets it loaded in the
archives if he wants.
Harley
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else
>related to the construction of their airplanes) I'd be
>pleased to add it to the /Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com
>
>You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure
>to include a description of what we're looking at. I'll
>add descriptive text to the photo and post it with a descriptive
>file name.
>
>Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Done!....:)
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel pic
-->
If anyone has nice pictures of panels (or anything else related to the
construction of their airplanes) I'd be pleased to add it to the
/Pictures folder on aeroelectric.com
You can e-mail directly to me as an attachment. Be sure to include a
description of what we're looking at. I'll add descriptive text to the
photo and post it with a descriptive file name.
Bob . . .
January 02, 2006 - January 06, 2006
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-ff