AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hm
December 19, 2007 - January 04, 2008
>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Noel
>>Karppinen
>>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:59 PM
>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactors
>>I have just started wiring up a Jabiru 3300 installation, which
includes a
>>battery contactor. I wanted to test that the basic power wiring was
OK
>>before going too far with the wiring, so I connected a bench power
supply to
>>the input side of the contactor, and selected the battery position
on the
>>master switch. Everything seemed to be working correctly, except
that the
>>contactor became quite hot to touch once it had been on for a
while. (There
>>was no load on the main bus at this stage, the only current through
the
>>contactor was the coil current.) I removed it and replaced it with
a second
>>borrowed contactor, with the same result. I also took the
contactors out of
>>the aircraft, and checked them on the bench, and again, they became
quite
>>hot. Both contactors drew a coil current of about 750 mA.
Thanks, Richard. That makes me feel more confident that there is no real
problem.
Noel Karppinen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence(at)mbdi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactors |
Noel
Check the resistance on the coil. A continuous duty contactor will show
a resistance of 10 to 18 ohms. An intermittant one will show 3 to 5 ohms
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Karppinen
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:20 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Contactors
At 16:59 12/17/2007, you wrote:
>>Is it normal for battery contactors to run hot, or have I
>>encountered two faulty contactors?
>>
>>Noel Karppinen
>
> Do you perhaps have contactors rated for intermittent (starter)
>service rather than continuous (battery) service?
>
>Ron Q.Hi Ron
The original contactor came from Aircraft Spruce, and is one of their
master relays, rated for continuous use. The other came fom a local
LAME (or A&P, I believe, for all you guys in the US). Since I asked for
a battery contactor, I'm pretty sure that would also be for continuous
use.
Noel
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactors |
>"Richard T. Schaefer"
><schaefer@rts-services.com>schaefer@rts-services.com> wrote:
> >It's normal for them to be a little too warm to touch. The current is
> about right. Look at this at a 10W heater. It will get warm!
>
Dead on target Richard. In times past that this
conversation was conducted, I went to the bench
and held one of our stock battery contactors
in an energized condition until its temperature
stabilized. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Battery_Contactor_Temps_1.jpg
The effects of temperature rise were obvious
too in terms of the current draw for the
contactor. Room temperature current draw
was on the order of 0.8 amps. But after
two hours of operation . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Battery_Contactor_Temps_2.jpg
. . . current draw is down to about
0.56 amps. This phenomenon is a function
of the positive temperature coefficient of
copper wire used to wind the coil. As the
device warms up, it's resistance goes up
and the current goes down.
In terms of a gross test of a contactor's
intermittent or continuous duty status, if
it's still functioning after 5 minutes of
continuous operation then it MUST be a
continuous duty device. The intermittent
duty devices tailored for starter motor
control would have spit out all their smoke
after 5 minutes!
It's not often that we are physically able
to "feel" a piece of operating equipment and
find that it's too hot to touch but it can
raise concerns when the device is not
OBVIOUSLY designed to run hot . . . like
engines and exhaust stacks.
The contactors that dissipate about 10
watts don't heat up real fast . . . but in
still air they'll get pretty toasty.
Bob . . .
>
> >>I have just started wiring up a Jabiru 3300 installation, which
> includes a
> >>battery contactor. I wanted to test that the basic power wiring
> was OK
> >>before going too far with the wiring, so I connected a bench
> power supply to
> >>the input side of the contactor, and selected the battery
> position on the
> >>master switch. Everything seemed to be working correctly, except
> that the
> >>contactor became quite hot to touch once it had been on for a
> while. (There
> >>was no load on the main bus at this stage, the only current
> through the
> >>contactor was the coil current.) I removed it and replaced it
> with a second
> >>borrowed contactor, with the same result. I also took the
> contactors out of
> >>the aircraft, and checked them on the bench, and again, they
> became quite
> >>hot. Both contactors drew a coil current of about 750 mA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Clearance/delivery switch |
>
>John,
>The wrap I got from Bob on this same question last week was that this
>should be designed into your endurance bus. Example I use is Z19 where
>you have the alternate switch for the endurance buss. Since you have
>followed good design you already have a minimum of equipment on that
>bus. That equipment would include one radio.
>
>So, switch on e-Bus, wow, you've fired up a whole 5-7 amps and key the
>radio. Ready for clearance.
>
>If you are a real die hard, buy another small fuse bus, a switch and
>have a single radio tied to that bus. If you are a real cheapo, buy and
>inline fuse and wire one of the radio power lines direct to a battery.
>Of course you will always need to turn that on/off. That would be a
>great excuse for a 3rd radio.
>
>RV-7 heavy cleared to taxi.
Well considered posting sir. You beat me
to it!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cesnna split switch |
>Can someone help me find the information I need to wire a split switch batt/
>alt into Z16 Rotax 912. I only have one buss.
>Thanks
>John S
>CH701 rotax
John, did the answer to this not come though?
A few days ago this exchange was posted
to the List . . .
I need help in wiring a cessna style split Master Switch Batt/Alt
into Z16 Rotax system. I'm using a single buss.
Not sure how to answer this. The S700-2-10
switch shown in Z-16 emulates the functions
of a split-rocker switch. I.e. wiring diagrams
for both switches is identical.
You might check the panel of a Cessna but
the switch as-mounted uses the right side
rocker as the battery master and the left
side as the alternator. A check with your
ohmmeter would confirm that the battery side
can be ON without having the alternator
side ON too . . .
------------------
Are there additional questions about this
problem you're trying to solve?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>Bob and listers.
>Flew today, after repositioning the B lead wire and replacing the ANL 60.
>All systems worked normally!!!!
>Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Very good sir! Seems you've demonstrated the
validity of our faith in installing such devices.
This one did it's job!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Swanson" <jswanson(at)jamadots.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cesnna split switch |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cesnna split switch
>
>
>
>>Can someone help me find the information I need to wire a split switch
>>batt/
>>alt into Z16 Rotax 912. I only have one buss.
>>Thanks
>>John S
>>CH701 rotax
>
> John, did the answer to this not come though?
> A few days ago this exchange was posted
> to the List . . .
>
>
> I need help in wiring a cessna style split Master Switch Batt/Alt
> into Z16 Rotax system. I'm using a single buss.
>
> Not sure how to answer this. The S700-2-10
> switch shown in Z-16 emulates the functions
> of a split-rocker switch. I.e. wiring diagrams
> for both switches is identical.
>
> You might check the panel of a Cessna but
> the switch as-mounted uses the right side
> rocker as the battery master and the left
> side as the alternator. A check with your
> ohmmeter would confirm that the battery side
> can be ON without having the alternator
> side ON too . . .
>
> ------------------
>
> Are there additional questions about this
> problem you're trying to solve?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Yes
the terminals on my split switch are not the same as s-700-2-10 and i cannot
find anything that will tell me how to wire it into Z-16
? 2 also if i just use 1 buss do i wire it to the hot side of the battery
contactor or
just wire the master switch hot?
Thank you
John S CH701 Rotax 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cesnna split switch |
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 8:57 AM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cesnna split switch
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Can someone help me find the information I need to wire a split switch batt/
>>>alt into Z16 Rotax 912. I only have one buss.
>>>Thanks
>>>John S
>>>CH701 rotax
>>
>> John, did the answer to this not come though?
>> A few days ago this exchange was posted
>> to the List . . .
>>
>>
>>I need help in wiring a cessna style split Master Switch Batt/Alt
>>into Z16 Rotax system. I'm using a single buss.
>>
>>Not sure how to answer this. The S700-2-10
>>switch shown in Z-16 emulates the functions
>>of a split-rocker switch. I.e. wiring diagrams
>>for both switches is identical.
>>
>>You might check the panel of a Cessna but
>>the switch as-mounted uses the right side
>>rocker as the battery master and the left
>>side as the alternator. A check with your
>>ohmmeter would confirm that the battery side
>>can be ON without having the alternator
>>side ON too . . .
>>
>>------------------
>>
>> Are there additional questions about this
>> problem you're trying to solve?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>Yes
>the terminals on my split switch are not the same as s-700-2-10 and i cannot
>find anything that will tell me how to wire it into Z-16
If you're looking for a pictorial substitution of
the Cessna master switch, I'll have to have the
Cessna switch in hand. If you'll mail yours to
me with $2 cash for return shipping, I'll do a
"comic book" illustration that will show how
to do the substitution.
>? 2 also if i just use 1 buss do i wire it to the hot side of the battery
>contactor or
>just wire the master switch hot?
?? Neither one . . . assuming I understand
your words. If you don't want the e-bus, you
simply eliminate all of the wiring beginning
at the fusible link on the battery contactor,
the e-bus alternate feed swtch, the e-bus
structure and the normal feedpath diode.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nauga(at)brick.net" <dhyde01(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Audio isolation amp questions |
I've ordered the audio amp PCB from AEC but have a few questions based on reading
rev J of the writeup.
I'd like to use this board to sum 3-4 mono inouts and two stereo inputs. At the
most basic level I understand
the function of the board but get a little confused looking at the schematic.
On the stereo schematic, page 1.7,
both inputs to the left signal amp (LM316) are labelled pin 3. Is the upper pin
#2 and the lower #3 or vice versa?
Which leads to......
On the diagram where additional inputs are shown (p 1.8.1), am I correct in assuming
that an additional stereo input
could be added by adding appropriate resistor/capacitor networks (and dummy load
as required) into pin 3 of both amps
(or pins 3 right and 2 left depending on the answer above)?
Or maybe the first question should be: Is rev J the most current version?
Thanks in advance,
Dave 'Nauga' Hyde
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio isolation amp questions |
>
>
>I've ordered the audio amp PCB from AEC but have a few questions based on
>reading rev J of the writeup.
>I'd like to use this board to sum 3-4 mono inouts and two stereo
>inputs. At the most basic level I understand
>the function of the board but get a little confused looking at the
>schematic. On the stereo schematic, page 1.7,
>both inputs to the left signal amp (LM316) are labelled pin 3. Is the
>upper pin #2 and the lower #3 or vice versa?
>Which leads to......
>On the diagram where additional inputs are shown (p 1.8.1), am I correct
>in assuming that an additional stereo input
>could be added by adding appropriate resistor/capacitor networks (and
>dummy load as required) into pin 3 of both amps
>(or pins 3 right and 2 left depending on the answer above)?
>
>Or maybe the first question should be: Is rev J the most current version?
No, I've updated one page of the data package to correct
the issues you've cited . . . and added a parts layout
view for the ECB you purchased (I still need to find
them . . . they're around here somewhere!). See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Iso_P1p7_K.pdf
The whole data package needs some attention with
respect to obsolete parts on Digikey but don't
have time right now. Your interpretation of what's
needed to add more inputs is, I believe, correct.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Karppinen" <noelk(at)pcug.org.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactors |
Hi Peter
The resistance of mine is 16 Ohms when cold, so it is right in the ball
park.
Noel
----- Original Message -----
Noel
Check the resistance on the coil. A continuous duty contactor will show
a resistance of 10 to 18 ohms. An intermittant one will show 3 to 5 ohms
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel Karppinen" <noelk(at)pcug.org.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactors |
Thanks for that comprehensive reply, Bob. Now I am completely convinced
that there is nothing to worry about.
Noel
----- Original Message -----
>"Richard T. Schaefer"
><schaefer@rts-services.com>schaefer@rts-services.com> wrote:
> >It's normal for them to be a little too warm to touch. The
current is
> about right. Look at this at a 10W heater. It will get warm!
>
Dead on target Richard. In times past that this
conversation was conducted, I went to the bench
and held one of our stock battery contactors
in an energized condition until its temperature
stabilized. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Battery_Contactor_Temp
s_1.jpg
The effects of temperature rise were obvious
too in terms of the current draw for the
contactor. Room temperature current draw
was on the order of 0.8 amps. But after
two hours of operation . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/Battery_Contactor_Temp
s_2.jpg
. . . current draw is down to about
0.56 amps. This phenomenon is a function
of the positive temperature coefficient of
copper wire used to wind the coil. As the
device warms up, it's resistance goes up
and the current goes down.
In terms of a gross test of a contactor's
intermittent or continuous duty status, if
it's still functioning after 5 minutes of
continuous operation then it MUST be a
continuous duty device. The intermittent
duty devices tailored for starter motor
control would have spit out all their smoke
after 5 minutes!
It's not often that we are physically able
to "feel" a piece of operating equipment and
find that it's too hot to touch but it can
raise concerns when the device is not
OBVIOUSLY designed to run hot . . . like
engines and exhaust stacks.
The contactors that dissipate about 10
watts don't heat up real fast . . . but in
still air they'll get pretty toasty.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SD-8 Alternator OFF Annunciator? |
>
>"With Z-13, you leave the SD-8 off until needed when
>it is determined that the main alternator is off line
>(lv light on). You drop to e-bus loads, open battery
>contactor, turn SD-8 on and continue to airport of
>intended destination. If the SD-8 is not overloaded,
>the lv warning light will go back out."
>
>With regards to the SD-8 and the lv light, Z-13 has a single lv light on
>the diagram. The descripton for the PV/OV crows foot kit available from B
>and C states that "The PM/OV was designed to give over voltage protection
>to the permanet magnet alternator. The yellow light will annunciate if the
>alternator switch is left off, or the crowbar over voltage protection has
>been tripped. "
>
>So, will the single lv light depicted on Z-13 light if either the main alt
>or the SD-8 are off line?
>
>If the SD-8 has its own unique lv light as described on the B and C site,
>does it light if the aux alt selection switch is OFF? Or, does it only
>light if the aux alt selector switch is ON AND the SD-8 is off line? If
>the first case is true, during normal operation, the aux lv light will
>alway remain lit which would not be an ideal situation.
I don't think I've ever suggested the ALL OFF
warning light for the SD-8 as used in Z-13/8. The warning
light is useful when the SD-8 is a sole-source of engine
driven power in simple systems where there is no
real LV monitoring and warning system.
I've written many times in the past that the most
important electrical "instrument" in the electrical
system is the calibrated LOW VOLTS warning light
set to illuminate when the bus is below 13.0 volts.
Figure Z-13/8 suggests the AEC9005-101 LV Warning
module (or equivalent) and does not show the SD-8
ALT OFF light which is included in the B&C SD-8
installation kit. This indicator is not useful
in the Z-13/8 architecture.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Switched hot bus |
>All
>
>
>I am currently working on my wiring diagram for my FADEC equipped
>plane. I will be using a slightly modified version of the Z-14
>diagram. I found a fellow builder with the same setup as me and got a
>hold of his wiring diagram. Attached is a snippet of that diagram. My
>question pertains to the guarded switch for FADEC bus #1 (there is a
>similar setup for FADEC bus #2). The diagram is showing 4 AWG wire
>between the battery and guarded switch. Shouldn t there be a relay or
>something here?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Jason
>
>
>image001.png
I would rather see the FADEC equipment drive from
the Main Battery Bus with switching for each feeder
supplied downstream of the fuses as appropriate.
Without having detailed data on the functionality
of your FADEC system and its failure modes, it's
not possible to offer a well considered recommendation.
If your system demands an architecture like you've
illustrated, then the switch should be a relay (solid
state perhaps?) right at the battery. The 4AWG wire
cited can probably be MUCH smaller.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Amp 59250 t-head tool |
See item 150197086208 on ebay
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Amp 59250 t-head tool |
Good Morning 'Lectric Bob,
You mentioned once that you had sent your T head crimper in for a rebuild.
Do you know if such a service is still available?
If so, where and how much ?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/20/2007 9:08:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:
See item 150197086208 on ebay
Bob . . .
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wgill10(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Alternator whine in audio |
Hello All,
I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the David Clark
headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is high; however, if
I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm radio volume up to compensate,
the whine is barely detectable. Can anyone explain this and/or provide
possible solutions? I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed
me that their product has internal noise filtering and that I must have an
audio ground problem. When the alternator is switched off-line, the audio is
crystal clear. If there was an audio grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition
noise too, but thats not the case. Can additional filtering be installed
external to the alternator? Suggestions please.
Happy holidays,
Bill Gill
RV-7 Lee's Summit, MO
Hello All,
I have a PlanePower alternator and have
noticed a whine noise in the David Clark headset audio. It is really noisy
if the headset volume is high; however, if I turn the headset volume down low
and turn the comm radio volume up to compensate, the whine is barely detectable.
Can anyone explain this and/or provide possible solutions? I called PlanePower
to inquire about filter and they informed me that their product has internal
noise filtering and that I must have an audio ground problem. When the alternator
is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear. If there was an audio
grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but thats not the
case. Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator? Suggestions
please.
Happy holidays,
Bill Gill
RV-7 Lee's Summit, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firewall Placement Of Electrical Components |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
I am building a Zenith 601 and using a variation of the Z16 drawing. I am currently
working on placing my regulator, S704-1 OV relay and capacitor. The B&C
instructions are pretty clear that this stuff should be mounted on the cockpit
side of the firewall and away from engine heat. In this configuration, the
Z16 would have me running a 12GA from the capacitor, through the firewall, and
out to the up-leg screw on the starter relay. I would also have a 12GA going
from the down-leg screw of the battery relay, through the firewall, and to the
main distribution bus. My question is two-fold:
1. Is it critical that these electrical parts be on the backside of the firewall.
I have seen photos of this stuff on the engine side on other airplanes.
2. If I follow B&C's recommendation on placement, can I run the alternator lead
from the capacitor straight to the main distribution bus? This would only require
one 12GA wire firewall penetration from the bus to the battery relay.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153287#153287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator whine in audio |
Have you got a good connection between the alternator case and the engine b
lock?....I had kinds of noise issues before i realised that painting the al
ternator bracket is a very bad idea and is provides a hi resistance path...
Ooops.
My plane power alt has been trouble free...no noise.
Frank
RV 7a IO360
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wgill10(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator whine in audio
Hello All,
I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the David
Clark headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is high; how
ever, if I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm radio volume
up to compensate, the whine is barely detectable. Can anyone explain this a
nd/or provide possible solutions? I called PlanePower to inquire about filt
er and they informed me that their product has internal noise filtering and
that I must have an audio ground problem. When the alternator is switched
off-line, the audio is crystal clear. If there was an audio grounding issue
I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but that's not the case. Can ad
ditional filtering be installed external to the alternator? Suggestions ple
ase.
Happy holidays,
Bill Gill
RV-7 Lee's Summit, MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator whine in audio |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 08:20 12/20/2007, you wrote:
> I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in
> the David Clark headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset
> volume is high; however, if I turn the headset volume down low and
> turn the comm radio volume up to compensate, the whine is barely
> detectable. Can anyone explain this and/or provide possible solutions?
Is this something new, and if so, what has changed?
Only your headset, or also pax headsets?
You don't mention what you have for an audio/intercom system....
A question.
Is each and every headset audio and microphone jack ground bushing
insulated from and do not rely on an airframe connection for the
'return' to the source equipment? That is, are there dedicated
ground returns for the microphone and headset from each and every
jack returning to the audio source, be it radio, audio panel or intercom?
Your audio source to the headset will amplify whatever signal it sees
between its' input and input common, generally audio lo, chassis or
some other airframe referenced ground connection. Likewise, what
ever is connected to its' output will hear whatever voltage is seen
between the hot or high connection and lo, return, chassis or
whatever you wish to call it. Should some unwanted voltage also get
stuck in there, it too will be heard. As you turn up the comm audio
and the offending noise is not increased, it would be safe to assume
the offending signal is after the volume control you are
adjusting. In a similar manner, you adjust headset volume and the
noise changes; the source is before the control.
Your headphones may well just be hearing some voltage drop caused by
airframe currents between the jack where you connect them and the
piece of gear at the other end of the wire to the jack.
>I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed me
>that their product has internal noise filtering and that I must have
>an audio ground problem. When the alternator is switched off-line,
>the audio is crystal clear.
So the offending source would seem to be the alternator; it's off, no
noise. But how is the alternator noise getting into the
headset? Even a good alternator is going to make some noise when
under load. It's our duty to minimize how that noise can make it into
unwanted places.
>If there was an audio grounding issue I would expect to hear
>ignition noise too, but that's not the case.
Generally ignition noise is radiated noise, not noise in the form of
airframe current, so you could easily have (or not) ignition noise
(generally) totally unrelated to stray currents causing unwanted
voltage drops in audio circuits.
>Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator?
>Suggestions please.
Generally, additional filtering can be added and may help. But is
that just a band aid covering up some other undiscovered issue that,
if corrected, would yield an even better solution...
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wgill10(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator whine in audio |
Thanks Ron.
This is a new RV-7 aircraft and installation...been there since day one on both
audio jacks . I have a Garmin 347 audio panel with an SL-40 comm...both prewired
by Stark's. I do have the insulating washers on the jacks with a dedicated
ground (unshielded) wired to a central ground. I also have a KX 155 navcomm w/glideslope
-- the noise is there with either comm.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com>
At 08:20 12/20/2007, you wrote:
I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the David Clark
headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is high; however, if
I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm radio volume up to compensate,
the whine is barely detectable. Can anyone explain this and/or provide
possible solutions?
Is this something new, and if so, what has changed?
Only your headset, or also pax headsets?
You don't mention what you have for an audio/intercom system....
A question.
Is each and every headset audio and microphone jack ground bushing insulated from
and do not rely on an airframe connection for the 'return' to the source equipment?
That is, are there dedicated ground returns for the microphone and headset
from each and every jack returning to the audio source, be it radio, audio
panel or intercom?
Your audio source to the headset will amplify whatever signal it sees between its'
input and input common, generally audio lo, chassis or some other airframe
referenced ground connection. Likewise, what ever is connected to its' output
will hear whatever voltage is seen between the hot or high connection and lo,
return, chassis or whatever you wish to call it. Should some unwanted voltage
also get stuck in there, it too will be heard. As you turn up the comm audio
and the offending noise is not increased, it would be safe to assume the offending
signal is after the volume control you are adjusting. In a similar manner,
you adjust headset volume and the noise changes; the source is before the
control.
Your headphones may well just be hearing some voltage drop caused by airframe currents
between the jack where you connect them and the piece of gear at the other
end of the wire to the jack.
I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed me that their product
has internal noise filtering and that I must have an audio ground problem.
When the alternator is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear.
So the offending source would seem to be the alternator; it's off, no noise. But
how is the alternator noise getting into the headset? Even a good alternator
is going to make some noise when under load. It's our duty to minimize how that
noise can make it into unwanted places.
If there was an audio grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too,
but thats not the case.
Generally ignition noise is radiated noise, not noise in the form of airframe current,
so you could easily have (or not) ignition noise (generally) totally unrelated
to stray currents causing unwanted voltage drops in audio circuits.
Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator? Suggestions please.
Generally, additional filtering can be added and may help. But is that just a band
aid covering up some other undiscovered issue that, if corrected, would yield
an even better solution...
Ron Q.
Thanks Ron.
This is a new RV-7 aircraft and installation...been there since day one on
both audio jacks . I have a Garmin 347 audio panel with an SL-40 comm...both
prewired by Stark's. I do have the insulating washers on the jacks with a
dedicated ground (unshielded) wired to a central ground. I also have a KX 155
navcomm w/glideslope -- the noise is there with either comm.
Bill
At 08:20 12/20/2007, you wrote:
I have a PlanePower
alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the David Clark headset audio.
It is really noisy if the headset volume is high; however, if I turn the headset
volume down low and turn the comm radio volume up to compensate, the whine
is barely detectable. Can anyone explain this and/or provide possible solutions?
Is this something new, and if so, what has changed?
Only
your headset, or also pax headsets?
You don't mention what you have
for an audio/intercom system....
A question.
Is each and every headset
audio and microphone jack ground bushing insulated from and do not rely
on an airframe connection for the 'return' to the source equipment? That
is, are there dedicated ground returns for the microphone and headset from each
and every jack returning to the audio source, be it radio, audio panel or intercom?
Your
audio source to the headset will
ampli
fy whatever signal it sees between its' input and input common, generally audio
lo, chassis or some other airframe referenced ground connection. Likewise,
what ever is connected to its' output will hear whatever voltage is seen between
the hot or high connection and lo, return, chassis or whatever you wish
to call it. Should some unwanted voltage also get stuck in there, it too
will be heard. As you turn up the comm audio and the offending noise is
not increased, it would be safe to assume the offending signal is after the
volume control you are adjusting. In a similar manner, you adjust headset
volume and the noise changes; the source is before the control.
Your
headphones may well just be hearing some voltage drop caused by airframe
currents between the jack where you connect them and the piece of gear at the
other end of the wire to the jack.
I called PlanePower to
inquire about filter and they informed me that their product has internal noise
filtering and that I must have an audio ground problem. When the alternator
is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear.
So the
offending source would seem to be the alternator; it's off, no noise. But how
is the alternator noise getting into the headset? Even a good alternator
is going to make some noise when under load. It's our duty to minimize how
that noise can make it into unwanted places.
If there was an audio grounding
issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but thats not the case.
Generally ignition noise is radiated noise, not noise
in the form of airframe current, so you could easily have (or not) ignition
noise (generally) totally unrelated to stray currents causing unwanted voltage
drops in audio circuits.
Can additional filtering
be installed external to the alternator? Suggestions please.
Generally,
additional filtering can be added and may help. But is that
just a band aid covering up some other undiscovered issue that, if corrected,
would yield an even better solution...
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List: good warning labe |
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
I got some beautiful braided steel lines from Earl's Indy. Purchased
via the telephone. Great service. However, I failed to specify 37=B0
fittings. Auto use 45=B0 fittings. I had to reorder which was an
expensive lesson. Earl's Indy did stock the 37=B0 fittings and didn't
blanch when I said it was for an experimental airplane.
Earl's Indy =BB 1-800-331-INDY
Earl's Indy, Your one stop for Earl's Performance Parts.
www.earlsindy.com/ - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
-------------------------------------------
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: RV-List: good warning label.
Your ironic humor for today:
I'm adding the matco parking brake and needed to order some shorter
brake
lines. Found some 20" steel braided straight an4 lines from an online
auto/performance website.
They came with the label: "Warning: Competition/Off Road Use Only. Not
approved for highway use."
Hmmm. Well. I do hope to go "off road", so I'm thinking I should be
good.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lincoln Keill <airlincoln(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
Bob and/or other electronics gurus--
I'm using revision 11 and looking at chapter 11 (switches) and also the FAQ's...I
have attached an excerpt from the FAQ's that I think applies to my question
as well...it's a gentleman inquiring about using either a "3PDT" switch (I
think numerically this is a "3-3 switch"?) to change between two comm radios.
If I have a panel mount comm radio (with it's own antenna) and a portable comm
radio (an SP-200 with it's own antenna) and a simple two-place intercom system
(i.e. PM 3000), I believe I need the above referenced three-pole double-throw
(3-3) switch to swap between the two radios: a pole for the wire going to
the headset earphones, a pole for the wire coming from the headset microphone,
and a pole to swap the PTT line. By doing this, I can swap radios without having
to go through the intercom system which is in-line with your philosophy (which
I agree with) of minimizing knob-twisting distractions. I don't see any
examples of triple pole switches in the book and I can't find any in the Spruce
catalog, but if I'm thinking correctly, do you have a suggested resource for
obtaining one? Otherwise is there another switching logic I should consider?
Once again, everyone please feel free to shoot holes in my ideas. Thanks.
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
My plane is equipped with an old King KX170B, Microair 720, with a Sigtronics
SPA 400
intercom. I have interconnected them with a simple switching arrangement that
allows selecting
comm1 (King), comm 2, (MicroAir), both (audio only), nav (audio for ident). My
problem is, I've
describe my circuitry to a good A&P, and I think I've improperly wired the switches
for comm
selection. I've used a DPDT miniature toggle to switch the Mic audio and Headset
audio to
either comm1, or comm 2, with a SPST miniature toggle to either connect or remain
open
across the headset audio switch lugs of the DPDT switch. The configuration works,
and
communications are clear, according to all reports I've received during the last
year. My A&P
tells me that I should have also included the transmitter key line in the switch,
using a 3PDT
switch, so as to key up the proper transmitter. My gut tells me he's right, but
now I'm curious to
know why the simpler circuit I've used hasn't caused problems during the last
year. Many times
I've had both radios tuned to the same frequency, and keying the mike has never
created the
squeal normally associated with two transmitters using the same frequency at
the same time. In
fact, the radio not selected will receive the information transmitted by the
other. I've used a
hand-held radio to double check, and can not detect any keying of the transmitter
section of the
non-selected radio when the PTT switch is keyed, and I know that the transmit
key line is
connected to both radios directly. What am I missing?
A If you have confirmed that the non-selected transmitter is indeed passive then
you're
probably okay. I'm at a loss to explain why you are not having problems . . .
the standard
practice since day one has been to switch both mic-audio and PTT lines for the
selected
transmitter. The only thing I can think of is that some modern transmitters I've
seen don't need
the PTT line to make the transfer from receive to transmit. Microphones should
break both the
PTT and Mic-Audio lines when the PTT button is relaxed. This allows different
microphones to
share the same input to the transmitter without interfering with each other.
Many modern amateur transmitters sense the microphone power current draw when
a
microphone is connected to the audio circuit via the PTT switch and use this
to deduce the need
to transfer from receive to transmit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Turk" <matronics(at)rtist.nl> |
| Subject: | Re: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
3PDT and 4PDT switches are easy to get at online electronics stores like
Digikey.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Keill
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch?
Bob and/or other electronics gurus--
I'm using revision 11 and looking at chapter 11 (switches) and also
the FAQ's...I have attached an excerpt from the FAQ's that I think
applies to my question as well...it's a gentleman inquiring about using
either a "3PDT" switch (I think numerically this is a "3-3 switch"?) to
change between two comm radios.
If I have a panel mount comm radio (with it's own antenna) and a
portable comm radio (an SP-200 with it's own antenna) and a simple
two-place intercom system (i.e. PM 3000), I believe I need the above
referenced three-pole double-throw (3-3) switch to swap between the two
radios: a pole for the wire going to the headset earphones, a pole for
the wire coming from the headset microphone, and a pole to swap the PTT
line. By doing this, I can swap radios without having to go through the
intercom system which is in-line with your philosophy (which I agree
with) of minimizing knob-twisting distractions. I don't see any
examples of triple pole switches in the book and I can't find any in the
Spruce catalog, but if I'm thinking correctly, do you have a suggested
resource for obtaining one? Otherwise is there another switching logic
I should consider? Once again, everyone please feel free to shoot holes
in my ideas. Thanks.
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
Lincoln,
Check ebay Item number: 180195626322
They seem to be primarily used in audio (musical instruments, guitar parts) circuits.
It's a push-button (foot operated) switch but might could be adapted to
your use.
I just found a 3PDT toggle switch available from MPJA (Marlin P. Jones & Associates)
online
http://www.MPJA.com/ ( http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16075+SW )
Try to search 3PDT switch in Google for more options.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 02:26PM, "Lincoln Keill"
wrote:
>Bob and/or other electronics gurus--
>
> I'm using revision 11 and looking at chapter 11 (switches) and also the FAQ's...I
have attached an excerpt from the FAQ's that I think applies to my question
as well...it's a gentleman inquiring about using either a "3PDT" switch (I
think numerically this is a "3-3 switch"?) to change between two comm radios.
>
> If I have a panel mount comm radio (with it's own antenna) and a portable comm
radio (an SP-200 with it's own antenna) and a simple two-place intercom system
(i.e. PM 3000), I believe I need the above referenced three-pole double-throw
(3-3) switch to swap between the two radios: a pole for the wire going to
the headset earphones, a pole for the wire coming from the headset microphone,
and a pole to swap the PTT line. By doing this, I can swap radios without having
to go through the intercom system which is in-line with your philosophy
(which I agree with) of minimizing knob-twisting distractions. I don't see any
examples of triple pole switches in the book and I can't find any in the Spruce
catalog, but if I'm thinking correctly, do you have a suggested resource for
obtaining one? Otherwise is there another switching logic I should consider?
Once again, everyone please feel free to shoot holes in my ideas. Thanks.
>
> Lincoln Keill
> Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
| From: | "jetboy" <sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz> |
wouldnt you want to leave both audios available? This can be done by joining the
audio lines or through series resistors of around 100 ohms if you dont use an
audio panel. Just turn the volume down on the radio not being used.
Most GA aircraft use a DPDT toggle switch (C150) or DP rotary switch (C152/C172-182)
to select the transmitter for the mic / PTT.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153361#153361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "nauga(at)brick.net" <dhyde01(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Audio isolation amp questions |
Thanks for the response, Bob. I did a little more thorough search of the archives
and found answers to everything in there (don't know why I couldn't find them
for the past few days), but thanks for taking the time anyway.
Dave Hyde
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
Steinair have a selection, which they say are used for audio switching
etc
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Turk
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: swapping two radios using 3P/DT
switch?
3PDT and 4PDT switches are easy to get at online electronics stores
like Digikey.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Keill
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch?
Bob and/or other electronics gurus--
I'm using revision 11 and looking at chapter 11 (switches) and also
the FAQ's...I have attached an excerpt from the FAQ's that I think
applies to my question as well...it's a gentleman inquiring about using
either a "3PDT" switch (I think numerically this is a "3-3 switch"?) to
change between two comm radios.
If I have a panel mount comm radio (with it's own antenna) and a
portable comm radio (an SP-200 with it's own antenna) and a simple
two-place intercom system (i.e. PM 3000), I believe I need the above
referenced three-pole double-throw (3-3) switch to swap between the two
radios: a pole for the wire going to the headset earphones, a pole for
the wire coming from the headset microphone, and a pole to swap the PTT
line. By doing this, I can swap radios without having to go through the
intercom system which is in-line with your philosophy (which I agree
with) of minimizing knob-twisting distractions. I don't see any
examples of triple pole switches in the book and I can't find any in the
Spruce catalog, but if I'm thinking correctly, do you have a suggested
resource for obtaining one? Otherwise is there another switching logic
I should consider? Once again, everyone please feel free to shoot holes
in my ideas. Thanks.
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Amp 59250 t-head tool |
>Good Morning 'Lectric Bob,
>
>You mentioned once that you had sent your T head crimper in for a rebuild.
>Do you know if such a service is still available?
>
>If so, where and how much ?
I don't know. That would have been about 1965! I got
the address of the rebuild shop from a guy in a toolcrib
at the Cessna East Pawnee plant who was responsible
for tool screening and maintenance. After having bought
a "worn out" tool from Cessna salvage for $25, it was
a long step to add another $50 or so to that to make it
a zero time tool!
You can search the Tyco-Amp for "refurbish" or "rebuild"
services.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com" <earl_schroeder(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Eclispe crimping tool? |
Hi Bob [or other contributors],
I purchased the crimping tool referenced in this URL:
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15534+TL
However, it came with no instructions or illustrations as to its use.
I suppose I could use trial and error but prefer some helpful hints.
Thanks, Earl
PS searching the archives, produced none that I could find.
_____________________________________________________________
Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. Click here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mJ8X0xeveOtvWEDbDHQb3OPK9ixAAfti9QiZFE9N30DXS3n/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Amp 59250 t-head tool |
Thanks Bob, I'll get on it! (sometime that is.)
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/21/2007 8:33:35 A.M. Central Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net writes:
I don't know. That would have been about 1965! I got
the address of the rebuild shop from a guy in a toolcrib
at the Cessna East Pawnee plant who was responsible
for tool screening and maintenance. After having bought
a "worn out" tool from Cessna salvage for $25, it was
a long step to add another $50 or so to that to make it
a zero time tool!
You can search the Tyco-Amp for "refurbish" or "rebuild"
services.
Bob . . .
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eclispe crimping tool? |
>
>
>Hi Bob [or other contributors],
>I purchased the crimping tool referenced in this URL:
>http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15534+TL
>
>However, it came with no instructions or illustrations as to its use.
>
>I suppose I could use trial and error but prefer some helpful hints.
>
>Thanks, Earl
>
>PS searching the archives, produced none that I could find.
It's pretty straight-forward. You need to strip the wire
just enough that the strands bottom out in the back of
the pin just before the insulation touches the pin. Hold
the wire/pin up vertically and drop the tool over it until
the pin is fully seated in the tool. The pin will be flush
to just underflush with the working face of the tool. Put
the mash on it an you're done.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator whine in audio |
>Hello All,"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
> I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the
> David Clark headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is
> high; however, if I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm
> radio volume up to compensate, the whine is barely detectable. Can anyone
> explain this and/or provide possible solutions?
Yes. The alternator is the noisiest device in the
airplane and there is no practical way to 'filter'
its worst noise component - AC 'ripple' voltage
left over after the 3-phase AC output of the stator
windings is rectified into DC.
The simple-ideas that support this assertion are
illustrated in an excerpted figure from the chapter
on noise in the 'Connection which you can see
here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Figure_16p3.pdf
A rectified 3-phase AC voltage has a predictable
10% pk-pk ripple. I.e., your 14V alternator has
about 1.4 volts pk-pk AC signal at an audio rate
(you can hear it) riding on top of the DC power
output. Worse yet, the ENERGY in this 'noise'
is HUGE . . . let's say .5v RMS X alternator
output of up to say 60A makes this a 30 WATT
potential noise source.
The notion of adding a practical filter for this
condition is polluted by the knowledge that
many of the more useful filters for radio noise
are fairly easy pills to swallow (.5 lb, 10 square
inches footprint and perhaps 30 cubic inches
in volume). However, these are designed to work
at Megahertz frequencies and energy levels
perhaps 1 millionth as strong.
A filter capable of cleaning up the output
of an alternator is going to be more weight,
volume and loss of power than you're going
to want to put in your airplane.
This is why the graybeards in this technology
have provided guidance to designers in the form
of Mil-Std-704 and similar tomes that say, "Son,
that's one nasty noise generator out there on
the engine with no practical way to silence it.
Suggest you learn to live with it."
Indeed, DC power generation per Mil-Std-704
tells us to expect 3 volts pk-pk on 28v systems
as described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/MSTD704_28V_Noise.jpg
over the range of 1000 to 5000 Hz (you can HEAR
it) and tapering in intensity on either side.
Cut that value in half for a 14v system. Here's
a noise trace taken from my automobile's bus:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Safari_Bus_Noise_1.gif
>I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed me that
>their product has internal noise filtering and that I must have an audio
>ground problem.
But they didn't tell you everything. The only kind
of filter that can be physically installed in their
alternator goes to conducted RADIO FREQUENCY noise
from 150 KHz to 30 MHz in the form of a reasonably
sized capacitor. This filter cannot speak to the
AUDIO FREQUENCY noise described in the Mil-Std-704
excerpt cited above.
Their hypothesis about audio ground noise is a
strong one. The vast majority of audio system noise
problems I've encountered in the past had root
cause in poor ground architecture. This is why we
spend so much time exploring the potential for
grounding problems in chapter 16 and crafted the
ground architecture drawings in Figure Z-15.
> When the alternator is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear. If
> there was an
> audio grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but
> that's not
> the case.
A faulty supposition. The propagation modes for
these two antagonists are entirely different from
each other. The presence of one does not automatically
include or exclude the presence of both.
>Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator?
No.
> Suggestions please.
Suggest you first make sure that your headset
and microphone jacks DO NOT ground locally to
the airframe where they are mounted. This common
installation error probably accounts for 1/2 of
all the light aircraft alternator noise problems.
Understand too that you MIGHT have a propagation
mode that is difficult to find and/or fix. With
the advent of high quality, noise cancelling
headsets noises that used to be well below the
nuisance threshold for signal to noise are now
deemed undesirable. I'm not suggesting that your
problem is not fixable . . . just that the cost
in $time$ to fix it may not be very rewarding.
Is the noise you're hearing on the ground perceptible
and objectionable in flight? I've had MANY situations
where folks have chased over an airplane looking
for root cause and fix for noises that nobody
can hear while in flight.
If the mic/headset jacks ARE properly grounded
back at the intercom, then try running the noise
isolation traps described in Chapter 16. The noise
MIGHT be coming in through the +14v power leads
where its practical to add a filter like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.pdf
Unfortunately, all the components featured in
these two pieces are no longer offered by Radio
Shack since they got out of the automotive audio
products business. However, other companies
are very much IN that business. If your studies
determine that the noise IS coming in through the
+14v supply, perhaps a device like . . .
http://tinyurl.com/ynn7at
would do the job. There's no automatic recipe
for success here because the variables that set
levels of perception for the noise have a huge
range of cause/effect. Noise problems of this
nature are always plagued with a certain amount
of cut and try.
I've copied my friend Steven Klodd at Plane-Power
on this note. Steve, should you find it useful,
feel free to copy any or all of this stuff and
assemble it into a document for sharing with your
customers. A poor understanding of these simple-
ideas has cause our brothers to spend a lot of
$time$ chasing the elusive double-ugly, yellow-
beaked noise snipe!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
>Bob and/or other electronics gurus--
>
>I'm using revision 11 and looking at chapter 11 (switches) and also the
>FAQ's...I have attached an excerpt from the FAQ's that I think applies to
>my question as well...it's a gentleman inquiring about using either a
>"3PDT" switch (I think numerically this is a "3-3 switch"?) to change
>between two comm radios.
>
>If I have a panel mount comm radio (with it's own antenna) and a portable
>comm radio (an SP-200 with it's own antenna) and a simple two-place
>intercom system (i.e. PM 3000), I believe I need the above referenced
>three-pole double-throw (3-3) switch to swap between the two radios: a
>pole for the wire going to the headset earphones, a pole for the wire
>coming from the headset microphone, and a pole to swap the PTT line. By
>doing this, I can swap radios without having to go through the intercom
>system which is in-line with your philosophy (which I agree with) of
>minimizing knob-twisting distractions. I don't see any examples of triple
>pole switches in the book and I can't find any in the Spruce catalog, but
>if I'm thinking correctly, do you have a suggested resource for obtaining
>one? Otherwise is there another switching logic I should consider? Once
>again, everyone please feel free to shoot holes in my ideas. Thanks.
>
>Lincoln Keill
>Sacramento, CA
Check out the C&K 7301P3YZQE switch at:
http://tinyurl.com/ypqomr
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/7301P3YZQE.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | swapping two radios using 3P/DT switch? |
Bob or anyone else with the correct answer to my question,
I have an issue with my Headset/PTT/Microphone wiring. I have a Garmin
SL-30, SL-40 and the PMA 4000 by PS Engineering intercom. I hear a squeal when
I
press the PTT switch. If the intercom is turned off the squeal doesn't occur
while pressing the PTT switch. I'm wondering if a 3P/DT switch would be a good
option. If so, what schematic should I use??
Thanks in advance for any help!
Marwin Goff
Des Moines, IA
Marwin Goff
DSM
Varieze O-200
515-360-0778
bucsdds(at)aol.com
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator whine in audio |
there are noise filters in the amateur radio realm that work reasonably
well..... I am thinking about trying that in my audio ciruit to headphone to
see if I could "tune out" the noise. Any pilots using those? You can see
them advertised in QST, etc.
bobf
Glastar
W5RF
On 12/21/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>
>
> >Hello All, >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
> >
> > I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the
> > David Clark headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is
> > high; however, if I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm
> > radio volume up to compensate, the whine is barely detectable. Can
> anyone
> > explain this and/or provide possible solutions?
>
> Yes. The alternator is the noisiest device in the
> airplane and there is no practical way to 'filter'
> its worst noise component - AC 'ripple' voltage
> left over after the 3-phase AC output of the stator
> windings is rectified into DC.
>
> The simple-ideas that support this assertion are
> illustrated in an excerpted figure from the chapter
> on noise in the 'Connection which you can see
> here:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Figure_16p3.pdf
>
>
> A rectified 3-phase AC voltage has a predictable
> 10% pk-pk ripple. I.e., your 14V alternator has
> about 1.4 volts pk-pk AC signal at an audio rate
> (you can hear it) riding on top of the DC power
> output. Worse yet, the ENERGY in this 'noise'
> is HUGE . . . let's say .5v RMS X alternator
> output of up to say 60A makes this a 30 WATT
> potential noise source.
>
> The notion of adding a practical filter for this
> condition is polluted by the knowledge that
> many of the more useful filters for radio noise
> are fairly easy pills to swallow (.5 lb, 10 square
> inches footprint and perhaps 30 cubic inches
> in volume). However, these are designed to work
> at Megahertz frequencies and energy levels
> perhaps 1 millionth as strong.
>
> A filter capable of cleaning up the output
> of an alternator is going to be more weight,
> volume and loss of power than you're going
> to want to put in your airplane.
>
> This is why the graybeards in this technology
> have provided guidance to designers in the form
> of Mil-Std-704 and similar tomes that say, "Son,
> that's one nasty noise generator out there on
> the engine with no practical way to silence it.
> Suggest you learn to live with it."
>
> Indeed, DC power generation per Mil-Std-704
> tells us to expect 3 volts pk-pk on 28v systems
> as described in
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/MSTD704_28V_Noise.jpg
>
> over the range of 1000 to 5000 Hz (you can HEAR
> it) and tapering in intensity on either side.
> Cut that value in half for a 14v system. Here's
> a noise trace taken from my automobile's bus:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Safari_Bus_Noise_1.gif
>
> >I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed me that
> >their product has internal noise filtering and that I must have an audio
> >ground problem.
>
> But they didn't tell you everything. The only kind
> of filter that can be physically installed in their
> alternator goes to conducted RADIO FREQUENCY noise
> from 150 KHz to 30 MHz in the form of a reasonably
> sized capacitor. This filter cannot speak to the
> AUDIO FREQUENCY noise described in the Mil-Std-704
> excerpt cited above.
>
> Their hypothesis about audio ground noise is a
> strong one. The vast majority of audio system noise
> problems I've encountered in the past had root
> cause in poor ground architecture. This is why we
> spend so much time exploring the potential for
> grounding problems in chapter 16 and crafted the
> ground architecture drawings in Figure Z-15.
>
> > When the alternator is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear.
> If
> > there was an
> > audio grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but
> > that's not
> > the case.
>
> A faulty supposition. The propagation modes for
> these two antagonists are entirely different from
> each other. The presence of one does not automatically
> include or exclude the presence of both.
>
> >Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator?
>
> No.
>
> > Suggestions please.
>
> Suggest you first make sure that your headset
> and microphone jacks DO NOT ground locally to
> the airframe where they are mounted. This common
> installation error probably accounts for 1/2 of
> all the light aircraft alternator noise problems.
>
> Understand too that you MIGHT have a propagation
> mode that is difficult to find and/or fix. With
> the advent of high quality, noise cancelling
> headsets noises that used to be well below the
> nuisance threshold for signal to noise are now
> deemed undesirable. I'm not suggesting that your
> problem is not fixable . . . just that the cost
> in $time$ to fix it may not be very rewarding.
>
> Is the noise you're hearing on the ground perceptible
> and objectionable in flight? I've had MANY situations
> where folks have chased over an airplane looking
> for root cause and fix for noises that nobody
> can hear while in flight.
>
> If the mic/headset jacks ARE properly grounded
> back at the intercom, then try running the noise
> isolation traps described in Chapter 16. The noise
> MIGHT be coming in through the +14v power leads
> where its practical to add a filter like:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.pdf
>
> Unfortunately, all the components featured in
> these two pieces are no longer offered by Radio
> Shack since they got out of the automotive audio
> products business. However, other companies
> are very much IN that business. If your studies
> determine that the noise IS coming in through the
> +14v supply, perhaps a device like . . .
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ynn7at
>
> would do the job. There's no automatic recipe
> for success here because the variables that set
> levels of perception for the noise have a huge
> range of cause/effect. Noise problems of this
> nature are always plagued with a certain amount
> of cut and try.
>
> I've copied my friend Steven Klodd at Plane-Power
> on this note. Steve, should you find it useful,
> feel free to copy any or all of this stuff and
> assemble it into a document for sharing with your
> customers. A poor understanding of these simple-
> ideas has cause our brothers to spend a lot of
> $time$ chasing the elusive double-ugly, yellow-
> beaked noise snipe!
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpiamber(at)yahoo.com |
| Subject: | Yahoo! Auto Response |
JPI will be closed to observe Christmas
December 22ND and will return on December 27TH.
JPI will be closed to observe the New Year Holiday
December 29TH and will return on January 2ND.
The holiday season offers us a special opportunity to extend our personal thanks
to our friends, and our very best wishes for the future.
And so it is that we now gather together and wish to you a very Merry Christmas
and a Happy New Year. We consider you a good friend and extend our wishes for
good health and good cheer.
It is people like you who make being in business such a pleasure all year long.
Our business is a source of pride to us, and with customers like you, we find
going to work each day a rewarding experience.
To our friends all over the world, JP Instruments
extends to you and your loved ones our best wishes for a
Vrolijke Kersttmis Sarbatori Felicite
Joyeux Noel Tin Hao Nian
Froeliche Weihnachten Felice Natale
Kinga Shinnen Glad Julen
Ichok Yilara Boas Festas
Chrustovjna Wesloych Swiat
Glaedelig Jul Veselele Vanoche
Felice Pascuas Sretan Bozic
Boldog Karacsonyi Unnepeket Merry Christmas
and a Happy New Year!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Placement Of Electrical Components |
>
>
>I am building a Zenith 601 and using a variation of the Z16 drawing. I am
>currently working on placing my regulator, S704-1 OV relay and
>capacitor. The B&C instructions are pretty clear that this stuff should
>be mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall and away from engine
>heat. In this configuration, the Z16 would have me running a 12GA from
>the capacitor, through the firewall, and out to the up-leg screw on the
>starter relay. I would also have a 12GA going from the down-leg screw of
>the battery relay, through the firewall, and to the main distribution
>bus. My question is two-fold:
>
>1. Is it critical that these electrical parts be on the backside of the
>firewall. I have seen photos of this stuff on the engine side on other
>airplanes.
Everyone likes to "stay cool" but virtually every
product I design these days is required to live
and work in a 55C environment minimum and virtually
all our stuff can be demonstrated to run up to 100C.
Lots of folks have installed the B&C products and
the products of others on the engine side of the
firewall with no complaints. Your risks are low.
>2. If I follow B&C's recommendation on placement, can I run the
>alternator lead from the capacitor straight to the main distribution
>bus? This would only require one 12GA wire firewall penetration from the
>bus to the battery relay.
If it's a cleaner installation to go up front, go ahead
and do it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage |
>
>I too am using the AML34 and AML24 switches in my panel. Pacific Coast
>Avionics recommended using the Potter Brumfield VF4-65F11 relays for higher
>loads.
>
>Any thoughts on these relays Bob? Are they reliable enough?
"Reliable enough" isn't quantifiable . . . if you use
them with failure tolerant design in mind, then any
component demonstrating a service life commensurate with
your $time$ to acquire/install/maintain will have no
serious effect on system reliability, only a
cost of ownership consideration.
The plastic automotive power relays are in widespread
usage throughout the industry. Chances are that
they're entirely suited to your task of crafting
the failure tolerant system.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator whine in audio |
Thanks for the information Bob.
With minimal load on the alternator, I see an output of 14.3 volts
during cruise flight. As I apply loads one by one (radios, landing
lights, strobes, pitot heat, etc.), the noise gets stronger and the bus
voltage drops to 14.0 volts. The loads total about 15 amps and I would
not expect to see the bus voltage drop -- does this seem normal? I am
going to return the 60-amp alternator to PlanePower for inspection. I
didn't notice this noise during the first 15 or 20 hours of flight
testing, so maybe I did lose an alternator phase as PlanePower
identified as a possible culprit.
Yes, I can hear the whine in flight. I have to turn the headset volume
down to its lowest level and crank the radio volume up max to obtain an
acceptable audio output (minimal noise).
Merry Christmas,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator whine in audio
>Hello All,"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
> I have a PlanePower alternator and have noticed a whine noise in the
> David Clark headset audio. It is really noisy if the headset volume is
> high; however, if I turn the headset volume down low and turn the comm
> radio volume up to compensate, the whine is barely detectable. Can
anyone
> explain this and/or provide possible solutions?
Yes. The alternator is the noisiest device in the
airplane and there is no practical way to 'filter'
its worst noise component - AC 'ripple' voltage
left over after the 3-phase AC output of the stator
windings is rectified into DC.
The simple-ideas that support this assertion are
illustrated in an excerpted figure from the chapter
on noise in the 'Connection which you can see
here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Figure_16p3.pdf
A rectified 3-phase AC voltage has a predictable
10% pk-pk ripple. I.e., your 14V alternator has
about 1.4 volts pk-pk AC signal at an audio rate
(you can hear it) riding on top of the DC power
output. Worse yet, the ENERGY in this 'noise'
is HUGE . . . let's say .5v RMS X alternator
output of up to say 60A makes this a 30 WATT
potential noise source.
The notion of adding a practical filter for this
condition is polluted by the knowledge that
many of the more useful filters for radio noise
are fairly easy pills to swallow (.5 lb, 10 square
inches footprint and perhaps 30 cubic inches
in volume). However, these are designed to work
at Megahertz frequencies and energy levels
perhaps 1 millionth as strong.
A filter capable of cleaning up the output
of an alternator is going to be more weight,
volume and loss of power than you're going
to want to put in your airplane.
This is why the graybeards in this technology
have provided guidance to designers in the form
of Mil-Std-704 and similar tomes that say, "Son,
that's one nasty noise generator out there on
the engine with no practical way to silence it.
Suggest you learn to live with it."
Indeed, DC power generation per Mil-Std-704
tells us to expect 3 volts pk-pk on 28v systems
as described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/MSTD704_28V_Noise.jpg
over the range of 1000 to 5000 Hz (you can HEAR
it) and tapering in intensity on either side.
Cut that value in half for a 14v system. Here's
a noise trace taken from my automobile's bus:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Safari_Bus_Noise_1.gif
>I called PlanePower to inquire about filter and they informed me that
>their product has internal noise filtering and that I must have an
audio
>ground problem.
But they didn't tell you everything. The only kind
of filter that can be physically installed in their
alternator goes to conducted RADIO FREQUENCY noise
from 150 KHz to 30 MHz in the form of a reasonably
sized capacitor. This filter cannot speak to the
AUDIO FREQUENCY noise described in the Mil-Std-704
excerpt cited above.
Their hypothesis about audio ground noise is a
strong one. The vast majority of audio system noise
problems I've encountered in the past had root
cause in poor ground architecture. This is why we
spend so much time exploring the potential for
grounding problems in chapter 16 and crafted the
ground architecture drawings in Figure Z-15.
> When the alternator is switched off-line, the audio is crystal clear.
If
> there was an
> audio grounding issue I would expect to hear ignition noise too, but
> that's not
> the case.
A faulty supposition. The propagation modes for
these two antagonists are entirely different from
each other. The presence of one does not automatically
include or exclude the presence of both.
>Can additional filtering be installed external to the alternator?
No.
> Suggestions please.
Suggest you first make sure that your headset
and microphone jacks DO NOT ground locally to
the airframe where they are mounted. This common
installation error probably accounts for 1/2 of
all the light aircraft alternator noise problems.
Understand too that you MIGHT have a propagation
mode that is difficult to find and/or fix. With
the advent of high quality, noise cancelling
headsets noises that used to be well below the
nuisance threshold for signal to noise are now
deemed undesirable. I'm not suggesting that your
problem is not fixable . . . just that the cost
in $time$ to fix it may not be very rewarding.
Is the noise you're hearing on the ground perceptible
and objectionable in flight? I've had MANY situations
where folks have chased over an airplane looking
for root cause and fix for noises that nobody
can hear while in flight.
If the mic/headset jacks ARE properly grounded
back at the intercom, then try running the noise
isolation traps described in Chapter 16. The noise
MIGHT be coming in through the +14v power leads
where its practical to add a filter like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.pdf
Unfortunately, all the components featured in
these two pieces are no longer offered by Radio
Shack since they got out of the automotive audio
products business. However, other companies
are very much IN that business. If your studies
determine that the noise IS coming in through the
+14v supply, perhaps a device like . . .
http://tinyurl.com/ynn7at
would do the job. There's no automatic recipe
for success here because the variables that set
levels of perception for the noise have a huge
range of cause/effect. Noise problems of this
nature are always plagued with a certain amount
of cut and try.
I've copied my friend Steven Klodd at Plane-Power
on this note. Steve, should you find it useful,
feel free to copy any or all of this stuff and
assemble it into a document for sharing with your
customers. A poor understanding of these simple-
ideas has cause our brothers to spend a lot of
$time$ chasing the elusive double-ugly, yellow-
beaked noise snipe!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ultralast AA - Fry's |
Has anyone tried the Ultralast Alkaline batteries from Fry's? This
weekends add lists $13.99 for a pack of 100.
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | alternator/audio noise |
Cheers,
In my dotage, I have this insatiable urge to expound my attitude to
the subject.
I invite the stalwarts to reject it, but it has helped me through several
score years of trouble-shooting and might help those less schooled in
electronics (a phase I'm approaching at a measureable rate).
Earphone communications equipment is usually assailed by audio freqs
from the alternator - because it wants to. Thus designers (lusting for
success) often attempt to include circuitry in their magic boxes which
thwart the influx of these noises. These attempts are undone by adding
another 'ground' outside the box. Like the doc asks, "does it hurt when you
do that?" and you say "yes", he replies, "Then don't do that" - make every
effort to let the 'box' solve the noise and ensure no other connection is
made to ground. As Bob (I think) says, much of the trouble comes from
inadvertent grounding outside the box.
Read this, unless the more educated of us shoots me down. Have at
me.
Cheers for the season,
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator whine in audio |
>
>Thanks for the information Bob.
>
>With minimal load on the alternator, I see an output of 14.3 volts
>during cruise flight. As I apply loads one by one (radios, landing
>lights, strobes, pitot heat, etc.), the noise gets stronger and the bus
>voltage drops to 14.0 volts. The loads total about 15 amps and I would
>not expect to see the bus voltage drop -- does this seem normal? I am
>going to return the 60-amp alternator to PlanePower for inspection. I
>didn't notice this noise during the first 15 or 20 hours of flight
>testing, so maybe I did lose an alternator phase as PlanePower
>identified as a possible culprit.
Internally regulated alternators can only sense alternator
output voltage at the alternator's b-lead terminal. One
of several advantages of external regulators is their local
or remote sense inputs that are closer to the bus. What
you may be experiencing is simple voltage drop along
your b-lead wiring. Make a temporary connection to the
alternator b-lead terminal and check for loss of regulation
under load. It may be that what you're observing is predictable
drop in ship's wiring and the alternator is holding the
b-lead terminal at regulator setpoint.
>Yes, I can hear the whine in flight. I have to turn the headset volume
>down to its lowest level and crank the radio volume up max to obtain an
>acceptable audio output (minimal noise).
Okay, if this voltage drop thing and the whine thing
are NEW, then you may well have one of the three phases
missing in the alternator's output. loss of one winding
often manifests itself as poor regulation combined with
quantum jump in noise.
Take your alternator to an alternator overhaul shop before
sending it all the way to Texas. They should be able to
run it on a 5+ HP drive stand that will verify/deny the
open phase hypothesis. Automotive parts stores have table-
top alternator test stands but they may or may not be able
to spot the missing phase . . . and probably can't run
it under full load either.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultralast AA - Fry's |
><dgolden@golden-consulting.com>
>
>Has anyone tried the Ultralast Alkaline batteries from Fry's? This
>weekends add lists $13.99 for a pack of 100.
They are probably good value . . . i.e. good ratio
of energy contained versus dollars spent. Buy a pack
and send me two for "draining".
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator/audio noise |
>
>Cheers,
> In my dotage, I have this insatiable urge to expound my attitude to
>the subject.
>I invite the stalwarts to reject it, but it has helped me through several
>score years of trouble-shooting and might help those less schooled in
>electronics (a phase I'm approaching at a measureable rate).
> Earphone communications equipment is usually assailed by audio freqs
>from the alternator - because it wants to. Thus designers (lusting for
>success) often attempt to include circuitry in their magic boxes which
>thwart the influx of these noises. These attempts are undone by adding
>another 'ground' outside the box. Like the doc asks, "does it hurt when you
>do that?" and you say "yes", he replies, "Then don't do that" - make every
>effort to let the 'box' solve the noise and ensure no other connection is
>made to ground. As Bob (I think) says, much of the trouble comes from
>inadvertent grounding outside the box.
> Read this, unless the more educated of us shoots me down. Have at
>me.
An astute observation given credence by your
now keen powers of observation and deduction
that only come with interest, dedication and
the ability to sort the puzzle of simple-ideas
for ways they fit together in useful inventions.
>Cheers for the season,
. . . and to you also my friend.
Bob, K0DYH (for over 50 years)
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator whine in audio |
Even easier might be to find someone with an oscilloscope. It should be
obvious from looking at the AC ripple almost anywhere in the planes
electrical distribution. Every third peak will be missing. That
economical Owon scope that Bob mentioned a year or so ago runs very well
off a little inverter plugged into my cigarette lighter.
Ken
>snip
> Take your alternator to an alternator overhaul shop before
> sending it all the way to Texas. They should be able to
> run it on a 5+ HP drive stand that will verify/deny the
> open phase hypothesis. Automotive parts stores have table-
> top alternator test stands but they may or may not be able
> to spot the missing phase . . . and probably can't run
> it under full load either.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firewall Placement Of Electrical Components |
| From: | "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> |
Bob,
Thanks for the answer. Sometimes I just need a little positive reinforcement to
keep me moving forward.
Happy holidays to all,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153730#153730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: LED warning lights |
Hi Bob
I have gone with Z-12 architecture and I am using B&C 60amp alternator and
their standby SB1B-14.
My Question: What is the recommended way to substitute normal 12 volt
warning lights for LED's??
Merry Christmas
Dave Emond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Talbot" <richard(at)talbots.net.au> |
Hi Bob,
I have a couple of questions regarding your diagram for SD8 alternator self
excitation (Z-18).
You call out 12 AWG wiring between the dynamo and the regulator but the
dynamo already has a run of 16AWG attached to it by B&C. Everywhere else in
the diagram you specify 14 AWG. I assume you wish to minimise voltage drop
to the regulator? The only issue is that I don't have any 12 AWG wire.
What would you think is the maximum length of 14AWG that could be used here
and/or what are your design intentions as far as voltage drop?
I have ordered a 5A cct breaker for the SD8 previously. Is it OK to
substitute the 20AWG to the breaker for 18 AWG and use 5A cct breaker rather
than 2A?
Lastly, does anyone have pictures of their installation particularly the
mountings of diodes and resistors? The 2k7 resistors supplied to me are in
ceramic casing due to their power ratings. I am concerned about vibration
as the legs are very thin.
Thanks/Merry Christmas Everyone!
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Robert,
The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane and I would
really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax 912 using your
Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have the exact Alternator OV
detection system shown in the schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and
low voltage control module that has a warning light which stays on for under
and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says that the low voltage
light goes on if the Buss voltage is under 12.5V. I wired this module
exactly as shown in Z16.
I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a fully charged
battery and all seemed well. On the second flight that day I noticed that
the Alternator under voltage (UV) light came on with the engine idling when
the electric fuel pump was on. Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity
fed and the engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may have
advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The UV light went out
as I did this. I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
half hour without incident. Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I
did not check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument for about
30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started the engine for a few
more go-arounds in the pattern. The engine stared immediately so I guess the
battery was charged . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes warm-up, much of it
above idle RPM, with almost nothing electric turned on. When I taxied back
to the hanger and shut down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage
read 12.3V (this is a new battery).
There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate the problem
and need advice as to how to go about doing this. What is the most likely
cause? What should I check first and second, third. and how do I check them.
Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
*
Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage light come
on as described above when there are no problems?
*
There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV module. If
one of these blew or got disconnected would it cause this problem? Since
this is easy to check, I plan to look into this first.
*
Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator? How do
you check this out and determine if the regulator and not the alternator is
the cause?
*
I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage. First, is
this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so how do I check the
alternator output? If the alternator is bad I probably will have to remove
the engine and find a "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies
elsewhere.
Any help would really be appreciated.
Best regards and happy holiday,
Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LED warning lights |
| From: | "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> |
Dave,
There is a document on the AeroElectric website that explains how to use LEDs.
Basically you need to have a current limiting resistor in series with the LED.
You'll find that "electronic switches" often have enough leakage current so that
a LED will remain illuminated somewhat even though it should be off. The solution
for that is a resistor across the LED. You should check with the manufacturer
of any device you are using to get their recommendation for how to handle
this situation. For instance if you have a B&C LR3C-14, they want a 510 ohm
resistor between terminal 3 & 5. GRT EIS wants 10K ohm across the warning
light.
I have nothing but LEDs in all my warning and status lights and they work great!
and no filament to burn out and fail!
Jim Butcher
Europa XS
N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153982#153982
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LED warning lights |
Dave,
What makes you think you would treat LED's differently? Do they have a
defined voltage and a wattage? We'll then you treat them like any other
light. Yes, they generally take 1/3 as much power, but the ideology is
the same. Now, if you have the plutonium jobs, you need to mount them at
least 3 feet from major body parts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emond
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 3:46 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED warning lights
Hi Bob
I have gone with Z-12 architecture and I am using B&C 60amp alternator
and
their standby SB1B-14.
My Question: What is the recommended way to substitute normal 12 volt
warning lights for LED's??
Merry Christmas
Dave Emond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Good wire deal . . . |
hellofadeal on 22AWG high temp Mil-w-81044 wire
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-Specs/Mil-W-81044slash12.jpg
on Ebay at:
http://tinyurl.com/ys34l4
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LED warning lights |
>
>Dave,
>What makes you think you would treat LED's differently? Do they have a
>defined voltage and a wattage? We'll then you treat them like any other
>light. Yes, they generally take 1/3 as much power, but the ideology is
>the same. Now, if you have the plutonium jobs, you need to mount them at
>least 3 feet from major body parts.
Not all that is "LED" is a drop in replacement for
incandescent lamps. An LED's operating voltage is
on the order of 2 volts. Further, it's intensity
is directly controlled by how much CURRENT that's
forced through the device. Here's a generic article
on the innate perversity of the little buggers . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/leds3.pdf
Now, there ARE manufacturers of indicating light
FIXTURES that INCLUDE some form of current setting
resistor internal to the fixture. Examples include
devices like this:
http://tinyurl.com/2c3cxw
where one should note the callout, "Orange 12V LED
with holder". This description is a bit misleading
because there's no such thing as a "12V LED". There
are only ASSEMBLIES of an LED and a RESISTOR sized
for optimum operation at some voltage . . . in this
case, 12V.
There are many more LEDs in holders that do not
contain built in resistors like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Mini-LED_Fixture.jpg
. . . which may be used in instllations like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Annunciator_1.jpg
. . . where the resistors necessary to set up proper
operating current for the LEDs are external to the
lamp fixture but part of the overall system design.
Getting back to the B&C alternator controller
products, the output stage of the warning light
system was designed to TURN A WARNING LIGHT ON
in the event power was totally removed from the
controller. To accomplish this bit of electron
herding magic, the following architecture was
crafted:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LV_Led.jpg
Note the resistor from transistor collector to
base INTERNAL to the LR-3. This causes a substantial
amount of what would otherwise be called leakage
current to flow in the transistor's collector lead
when the LR-3 is powered down.
When substituting an LED for the normal incandescent
lamp, the "leakage" current that does not produce
visible light output from an incandescent lamp will
produce substantial light output from an LED. Further,
direct substitution of an LED for the incandescent lamp
is not possible without limiting the current to the
LED as cited above. In this case, I've illustrated the
use of two, 220 ohm resistors wired to (1) limit
current in the ON state and (2) wash out the effects
of 'leakage current' in the OFF state.
There's nothing particularly magic about the selection
of 220 ohms . . . I picked it because it was adequate
to the task and readily available from Radio Shack in
a handy pak-of-5 for a dollar. See:
http://tinyurl.com/2dl6zy
Bottom line is that LED lighting products are NOT
a no-brainer, drop-in replacement for every incandescent
application. One must have a knowledge of the
design goals for the driving circuitry (such as what
that ol' fart in Wichita put in the B&C products 20
years ago!).
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Robert,
The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new
plane and I would really appreciate help to understand what to
do about it.
I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
912 using your Aeroelectrics Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the schematic
and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage control module that
has a warning light which stays on for under and flashes for
over-voltage. The B&C web site says that the low voltage light goes
on if the Buss voltage is under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly
as shown in Z16.
I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
wired the module in accordance with instructions
provided with the device.
I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second flight
that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage (UV) light
came on with the engine idling when the electric fuel pump was on.
The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
LV warning light.
Since I dont need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the engine has a
mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may have advanced the throttle
beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The UV light went out as I did this.
I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a half hour
without incident.
Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not check it),
I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument for about 30 minutes
(drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started the engine for a few more
go-arounds in the pattern. The engine stared immediately so I guess
the battery was charged . However, the low-voltage light came on as
soon as I started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing electric turned
on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut down (with the UV
light still on) my battery voltage read 12.3V (this is a new battery).
Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
levels.
There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate the problem
and need advice as to how to go about doing this. What is the most likely
cause? What should I check first and second, third and how do I check them.
Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
For the moment, I don't see that your system is
performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
in limitations for alternator output at low engine
RPM would account for what you've observed.
Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage light come
on as described above when there are no problems? There are two
fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV module. If one of these
blew or got disconnected would it cause this problem? Since this
is easy to check, I plan to look into this first.
Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator? How do
you check this out and determine if the regulator and not the
alternator is the cause?
Im not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage. First,
is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so how do I check
the alternator output? If the alternator is bad I probably will have
to remove the engine and find a real repairman to fix it, so I hope
the problem lies elsewhere.
Any help would really be appreciated.
Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
on it?
I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
out the light, but if the alternator is working at
all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
for the alternator to top off the battery.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>=======
>
> Allow me to suggest that M22759 Tefzel from the popular
> suppliers to the OBAM aircraft industry is the finest
> wire we've used in GA aircraft to date, is widely available
> and reasonably priced. Praying over the Concise Dictionary
> for Wire is probably not a good use of your time beyond
> expanding your intellectual horizons on the universe of
> wire types.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>=======
>
>Is that the stuff that is "Flammable producing copious amount of Dense
>toxic smoke (96%+ density) when it burns rendering it virtually impossible
>for flight crew to see their flight instruments." ?
>
>Not that I would be able to afford/obtain anything better, but I'm
>guessing now that's why my flight instructor told me that if I have an
>electrical fire in-air. that I have a poor chance of making it to the ground.
Your instructor's statement was about as
useful as commenting on your ability to
survive an encounter with your propeller
or live through a loss of a wing. Yes,
there are characteristics of virtually EVERY
material used in the fabrication and operation
of the airplane that pose some hazard to property
and body if containment within the designed
operating envelope is lost. An obvious case
would be gallons of fuel that become a real
nuisance if (1) allowed to get loose and (2)
become ignited. More subtle examples might
include substitution of hardware store
wagon bolts for the Grade 8 devices that
are normally used to hold critical parts
in assembly.
The evolution of failures that progress to the
point of becoming an in-flight fire are the
same for any fire. You need (1) an energy source
to start combustion. You need (2) a material that
will oxidize readily at the temperatures of
open flame and (3) a continuous source of
oxygen to support ongoing combustion.
The BIG variable in this equation is (1)
energy sources that start things off.
Obviously, we want to accomplish due diligence
in craftsmanship . . . select materials and
install/maintain them in a manner that
reduces risk. We do this by putting
circuit breakers and/or fuses in series
with wires that are at-risk for making
smoke. But this doesn't include ALL
wires. I'll cite dozens of discussions over
the years concerning the value of having
current limiters in the battery and starter
feed paths.
A thing that's easy to control is the
oxidizing characteristic of materials used
in the project. Many millions of person-hours
have been invested in the study of materials
suited to the task (adequate performance)
minimizing if not eliminating that material's
ability to propagate a fire.
Tefzel has been used in tens of thousands of
airframes for decades with great service life
and resistance to hazard escalation when
the wires are participants in a malfunction of
of some portion of the electrical system.
Take care lest you fall victim to folks who
seem to relish application of data (perhaps
questionable) taken out of context and
extrapolating it into ideas of hysteria-
provoking significance. Far too many folks
in our culture seem to enjoy this pastime.
Some have refined the practice to professional
status and make quite a good living at it.
>Michael
>RV-7a panel building with tefzel
It's a fine wire. Fly it in confidence and
good health my friend.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Thanks Bob,
You don't know how much this helped. I read your book and came to one of
your weekend sessions but am still a total novice when it comes to
understanding these systems.
Have a great Christmas,
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> -->
>
>
> Robert,
>
> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
>
> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
>
> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
> wired the module in accordance with instructions
> provided with the device.
>
>
> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
> fuel pump was on.
>
> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
> LV warning light.
>
> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
> UV light went out as I did this.
> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
> half hour without incident.
>
> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
>
> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
>
> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
> levels.
>
> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
> second, third. and how do I check them.
> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
>
> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
> RPM would account for what you've observed.
>
> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
> look into this first.
>
> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
> not the alternator is the cause?
>
> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
>
> Any help would really be appreciated.
>
> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
> on it?
>
> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
>
> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
>
> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
> for the alternator to top off the battery.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joemotis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane |
In a message dated 12/23/2007 10:05:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
lgold@quantum-associates.com writes:
When I taxied back to the hanger and shut down (with the UV light still on)
my battery voltage read 12.3V (this is a new battery).
So, have you checked voltage on the buss with the
engine running? Maybe the device is accurate and you really
are in a UV situation.
Joe Motis
Do not archive.
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I have a couple of questions regarding your diagram for SD8 alternator self
>excitation (Z-18).
>
>You call out 12 AWG wiring between the dynamo and the regulator but the
>dynamo already has a run of 16AWG attached to it by B&C. Everywhere else in
>the diagram you specify 14 AWG. I assume you wish to minimise voltage drop
>to the regulator? The only issue is that I don't have any 12 AWG wire.
>What would you think is the maximum length of 14AWG that could be used here
>and/or what are your design intentions as far as voltage drop?
The 12AWG was called out for Canard Pushers with
alternator in tail and battery up front. 14AWG is
fine for what you want to do.
>I have ordered a 5A cct breaker for the SD8 previously. Is it OK to
>substitute the 20AWG to the breaker for 18 AWG and use 5A cct breaker rather
>than 2A?
Sure.
>Lastly, does anyone have pictures of their installation particularly the
>mountings of diodes and resistors? The 2k7 resistors supplied to me are in
>ceramic casing due to their power ratings. I am concerned about vibration
>as the legs are very thin.
Yeah . . . resistors are generally designed to
solder to an etched circuit board. I picked
the 3W devices to get a robust package. The
actual power dissipated in these resistors
is quite small.
Put a ring terminal on each end of the resistor
mounted on the capacitor. Cut leads so that the
resistor can be dressed down against the end of
the capacitor and spotted in place with a dab
of E6000 (ShooGoo). See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_B.jpg
The resistor on the rectifier can be similarly
fitted with terminals. One end can go to the
rectifier's (-) terminal and the other end to
the rectifier mounting screw. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_A.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Joe,
I will not be able to get to the plane for a week, but you can be certain i
will check the voltage as soon as i can. (I think my Dynon shows voltage
and current). I guess anything higher than 12.5V is Ok but am not certain of
this.
Regards,
Les
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Joemotis(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
In a message dated 12/23/2007 10:05:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
lgold@quantum-associates.com writes:
When I taxied back to the hanger and shut down (with the UV light still on)
my battery voltage read 12.3V (this is a new battery).
So, have you checked voltage on the buss with the
engine running? Maybe the device is accurate and you really
are in a UV situation.
Joe Motis
Do not archive.
_____
See AOL's top rated recipes
<http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004> and easy
ways to stay in shape
<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003> for
winter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good wire deal . . . |
That should last me awhile. Picked up a 1000' roll.
Thanks for the tip, Happy Holidays Bob,
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good wire deal . . .
>
>
> hellofadeal on 22AWG high temp Mil-w-81044 wire
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-Specs/Mil-W-81044slash12.jpg
>
>
> on Ebay at:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ys34l4
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Les,
2 things coming to my mind if you have the Dynon D10A (or the
D1007DEK180) do NOT connect the keep alive wire (pin 2 on the D10A) if
you have an internal battery, as it might drain your battery by
recharging the internal one. Upgrade your Dynon to the 3.x or 4.x software.
Ad I would advise you get into the setup menu of the D10A/100/180 enable
the info for the voltage on the right or left side. BTW even if you do
not have enabled this, when you shutdown one with internal battery and
have software 4.0 loaded the internal battery will show up during the
grace periode before total shutdown. Good thing to check the internal
battery voltage.
br Werner
Les Goldner wrote:
>
> Thanks Bob,
> You don't know how much this helped. I read your book and came to one of
> your weekend sessions but am still a total novice when it comes to
> understanding these systems.
> Have a great Christmas,
> Les
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
>> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>>
>> -->
>>
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
>> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
>>
>> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
>> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
>> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
>> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
>> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
>> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
>> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
>> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
>>
>> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
>> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
>> wired the module in accordance with instructions
>> provided with the device.
>>
>>
>> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
>> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
>> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
>> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
>> fuel pump was on.
>>
>> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
>> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
>> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
>> LV warning light.
>>
>> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
>> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
>> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
>> UV light went out as I did this.
>> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
>> half hour without incident.
>>
>> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
>>
>> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
>> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
>> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
>> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
>> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
>> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
>> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
>> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
>> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
>> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
>> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
>>
>> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
>> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
>> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
>> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
>> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
>> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
>> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
>> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
>> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
>> levels.
>>
>> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
>> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
>> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
>> second, third. and how do I check them.
>> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
>>
>> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
>> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
>> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
>> RPM would account for what you've observed.
>>
>> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
>> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
>> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
>> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
>> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
>> look into this first.
>>
>> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
>> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
>> not the alternator is the cause?
>>
>> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
>> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
>> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
>> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
>> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
>>
>> Any help would really be appreciated.
>>
>> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
>> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
>> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
>> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
>> on it?
>>
>> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
>> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
>> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
>> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
>> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
>>
>> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
>> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
>> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
>> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
>>
>> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
>> for the alternator to top off the battery.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> Photoshare, and much much more:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Ray" <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
I have been playing with the www.Approach-Systems.com
APIS Program on my Laptop computer with a bluetooth GPS.
This seems to work well when I place it on the passengers seat.
If someone else is flying with me there is not enough room for the
computer and the passenger so here is the idea:
Place the computer onto the baggage shelf behind the seats.
Use a bluetooth mouse to control the computer program from my knee
board,
Find some way to embed a 7 or 8 inch lightweight remote VGA monitor on
the panel.
My computer has a VGA output port for a second monitor.
Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
players that could be used as the second monitor?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
The RV plans call for 2 copper bars made from .063 x 1/2 between the
master relay and the starter relay. Can I substitute 3 layers of brass
.040 x 1/2 made from a door kick plate?
John Morgensen
RV-9A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out |
there but here goes
Morning, Gary...
And a Merry Christmas to you (and everyone on this list)...
>>Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
players that could be used as the second monitor<<
Here's a bunch of them...not cheap though...
This one looks like the best choice, IMO...
http://tinyurl.com/3524h
And here are some others:
www.millertech.com/housed-lcds.htm
http://tinyurl.com/yrkv59
www.xenarc.com/
http://tinyurl.com/2v2ksa
www.xoxide.com/tt-7in-lcd-display.html
http://tinyurl.com/3bkdvf
A Google search should produce some more...
Have fun!
Harley Dixon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Ray wrote:
> I have been playing with the www.Approach-Systems.com
> <http://www.Approach-Systems.com>
> APIS Program on my Laptop computer with a bluetooth GPS.
> This seems to work well when I place it on the passengers seat.
> If someone else is flying with me there is not enough room for the
> computer and the passenger so here is the idea:
>
> Place the computer onto the baggage shelf behind the seats.
> Use a bluetooth mouse to control the computer program from my knee board,
> Find some way to embed a 7 or 8 inch lightweight remote VGA monitor on
> the panel.
> My computer has a VGA output port for a second monitor.
>
> Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
> players that could be used as the second monitor?
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copper or Brass |
>
>The RV plans call for 2 copper bars made from .063 x 1/2 between the
>master relay and the starter relay. Can I substitute 3 layers of brass
>.040 x 1/2 made from a door kick plate?
A single layer is fine. These conductors are
short and have VERY good heat rejection
characteristics (flat - lots of surface area).
0.040 material is fine. Brass is MUCH easier
to work with. However, it might be better to
make them .6 or so wide since you're drilling
.312 holes for the contactor studs. Better
edge margins . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out |
there but here goes
Looking a little further, I noticed the other products offered at this
site that may interest some of us:
www.mp3playerstore.com/
They have both full TV monitors AND just displays that not only stand
alone, but are already mounted in rear view mirrors, sun visors, head
rests, etc. They also have tiny normal and night vision cameras that we
could use for monitoring hard to see spots in the car and plane (like
inside the cowl and in the retractable gear wells).
A lot of possibilities here!
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harley wrote:
>
> Morning, Gary...
>
> And a Merry Christmas to you (and everyone on this list)...
>
> >>Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
> players that could be used as the second monitor<<
>
> Here's a bunch of them...not cheap though...
>
> This one looks like the best choice, IMO...
> http://tinyurl.com/3524h
>
> And here are some others:
>
> www.millertech.com/housed-lcds.htm
> http://tinyurl.com/yrkv59
> www.xenarc.com/
> http://tinyurl.com/2v2ksa
> www.xoxide.com/tt-7in-lcd-display.html
> http://tinyurl.com/3bkdvf
>
> A Google search should produce some more...
>
> Have fun!
>
> Harley Dixon
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Gary Ray wrote:
>> I have been playing with the www.Approach-Systems.com
>> <http://www.Approach-Systems.com> APIS Program on my Laptop computer
>> with a bluetooth GPS.
>> This seems to work well when I place it on the passengers seat.
>> If someone else is flying with me there is not enough room for the
>> computer and the passenger so here is the idea:
>>
>> Place the computer onto the baggage shelf behind the seats.
>> Use a bluetooth mouse to control the computer program from my knee
>> board,
>> Find some way to embed a 7 or 8 inch lightweight remote VGA monitor
>> on the panel.
>> My computer has a VGA output port for a second monitor.
>>
>> Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
>> players that could be used as the second monitor?
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good wire deal . . . |
The first two spools are gone but here's another one:
http://tinyurl.com/2an8a8
>
>
>That should last me awhile. Picked up a 1000' roll.
>Thanks for the tip, Happy Holidays Bob,
>Mike H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Good deal on Lacing Tape . . . |
http://tinyurl.com/3ykt8x
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good deal on Lacing Tape . . . |
I thought it was maybe going to be a link to Walgreen's dental floss ;-)
The seller has excellent feedback and some interesting listings for wire and
coax, too. His connector prices seemed to be aimed at the Pentagon/gov't
market. I can't bring myself to shell out $16 for a 9-pin D-sub (and $10
more for the back shell, when Bob has shown us that Shoe Goo will do!)
He's got enough magnet wire on that site to put radials under every vertical
antenna I ever dreamed of building, 500 times over.
-Bill B
On Dec 25, 2007 9:09 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3ykt8x
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
I bought one of these on e bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-VGA-TFT-Touch-Screen-Monitor-TV-for-Car-PC-GPS-A4_W0QQitemZ300182990845QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3698QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Comes from Hong Kong which some may consider risky but I have bought several products
from the guy and have great service. If there is a problem he replaces
the unit no questions asked.
Any way I mount the computer under my seat (not an RV) and use a wireless mouse
and it works great. (as long as you fire up the computer before sitting down).
It also has an input for a lipstick or video camera I am going to mount under
the wing so I can see in front of me when I taxi and or video during flights.
Some photos can be seen here>>>>>
http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154173#154173
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
Whatever you decide, just remember; what will you do when you get the
blue-screen-of-death on your Windows computer? Or, just imagine being
in a critical situation and all you see is, "This Windows program has
quit unexpectedly - Do you want to send a report to Microsoft?"
Steve
On Dec 25, 2007, at 5:02 AM, Gary Ray wrote:
> I have been playing with the www.Approach-Systems.com
> APIS Program on my Laptop computer with a bluetooth GPS.
> This seems to work well when I place it on the passengers seat.
> If someone else is flying with me there is not enough room for the
> computer and the passenger so here is the idea:
>
> Place the computer onto the baggage shelf behind the seats.
> Use a bluetooth mouse to control the computer program from my knee
> board,
> Find some way to embed a 7 or 8 inch lightweight remote VGA monitor
> on the panel.
> My computer has a VGA output port for a second monitor.
>
> Are there any VGA monitors similar to those found on portable DVD
> players that could be used as the second monitor?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
lists(at)stevet.net wrote:
> Whatever you decide, just remember; what will you do when you get the blue-screen-of-death
on your Windows computer? Or, just imagine being in a critical
situation and all you see is, "This Windows program has quit unexpectedly - Do
you want to send a report to Microsoft?"
> Steve
When I get the blue window of death and an invite to talk to bill gates I turn
the monitor off and fly the plane like I would on any other day of the week.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154181#154181
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
Milt,
the offer looks tempting, however can you give any comparison about the
brightness and sun readability of that VGA screen compared to e.g. a
EFIS/EMS you have (please state brand).
Thanks a lot!
br
Werner
N395V wrote:
>
> I bought one of these on e bay
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/8-VGA-TFT-Touch-Screen-Monitor-TV-for-Car-PC-GPS-A4_W0QQitemZ300182990845QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3698QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
>
> Comes from Hong Kong which some may consider risky but I have bought several
products from the guy and have great service. If there is a problem he replaces
the unit no questions asked.
>
> Any way I mount the computer under my seat (not an RV) and use a wireless mouse
and it works great. (as long as you fire up the computer before sitting down).
It also has an input for a lipstick or video camera I am going to mount under
the wing so I can see in front of me when I taxi and or video during flights.
>
> Some photos can be seen here>>>>>
>
> http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154173#154173
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Wire Label Printer |
Hey Folks,
Some of you have been looking for in-expensive wire/cable label
printer. Happen to see the Lowe's in my area has a Rhino Label
Printer for printing wire labels. It's around $49 for the printer,
label tape is addition. You'll find it in the electrical dept. This
is what they call an In/Out item meaning it is not a regular carried
item and will not be on their web site. A great Christmas gift for
yourself (always get what you want that way)... If you need their
item number, let me know.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Good deal on Lacing Tape . . . |
Thanks Bob, just checking though and ACS has the same mil spec product for
$17. I bought a roll of the wire though. Good tip, thanks
Tim Andres
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 6:10 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good deal on Lacing Tape . . .
http://tinyurl.com/3ykt8x
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Its a model TM 868 I think the guy that runs the e bay store makes them in his
own shop. I have about 600 hrs over 3 years on it and no problems yet.
It is more viewable in the cockpit than a tablet or PC. Not nearly as viewable
as an in the panel efis. Best guess is it views the same as or even a little better
than the Garmin 396/496.
I certainly would not use it as a primary. mainly I use it in conjunction with
TrueMap on a samsung Q1 ultra. Most of the time on long trips my wife uses it
to run up her delorme auto map program to track where we are in tourist format.
Either that or she plays games on it.
I think I payed $68 when I bought it. You can probably get higher quality units
at any video store but for the price this has served me well.
Since that TBM ate an RV at OSH I am anxious to get a camera on it to be able to
see in the 30 or so feet in front of me when on the ground.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154196#154196
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
Thanks Milt,
the link did not work for me, but I'm scrolling now through your cheetah
page a lot of different monitors/PC/moving map to compare, they run now
for around 175$, but shipping is expensive. What is it compared to your
Q1U (looked into that one several time but not yet convinced.
Thanks Werner
N395V wrote:
>
> Its a model TM 868 I think the guy that runs the e bay store makes them in his
own shop. I have about 600 hrs over 3 years on it and no problems yet.
>
> It is more viewable in the cockpit than a tablet or PC. Not nearly as viewable
as an in the panel efis. Best guess is it views the same as or even a little
better than the Garmin 396/496.
>
> I certainly would not use it as a primary. mainly I use it in conjunction with
TrueMap on a samsung Q1 ultra. Most of the time on long trips my wife uses it
to run up her delorme auto map program to track where we are in tourist format.
Either that or she plays games on it.
>
> I think I payed $68 when I bought it. You can probably get higher quality units
at any video store but for the price this has served me well.
>
> Since that TBM ate an RV at OSH I am anxious to get a camera on it to be able
to see in the 30 or so feet in front of me when on the ground.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154196#154196
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Werner
I have the Dynon 180. Thanks for the advice, which I will follow before the
next engine startup.
Regards,
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Werner Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:32 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> -->
>
> Les,
>
> 2 things coming to my mind if you have the Dynon D10A (or the
> D1007DEK180) do NOT connect the keep alive wire (pin 2 on the
> D10A) if you have an internal battery, as it might drain your
> battery by recharging the internal one. Upgrade your Dynon to
> the 3.x or 4.x software.
>
> Ad I would advise you get into the setup menu of the
> D10A/100/180 enable the info for the voltage on the right or
> left side. BTW even if you do not have enabled this, when you
> shutdown one with internal battery and have software 4.0
> loaded the internal battery will show up during the grace
> periode before total shutdown. Good thing to check the
> internal battery voltage.
>
> br Werner
>
> Les Goldner wrote:
> > --> <lgold@quantum-associates.com>
> >
> > Thanks Bob,
> > You don't know how much this helped. I read your book and
> came to one
> > of your weekend sessions but am still a total novice when
> it comes to
> > understanding these systems.
> > Have a great Christmas,
> > Les
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
> >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
> >>
> >> -->
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new
> plane and I
> >> would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
> >>
> >> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
> >> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have the
> >> exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
> schematic and sold
> >> me their BC207-1 over and low voltage control module that has a
> >> warning light which stays on for under and flashes for
> over-voltage.
> >> The B&C web site says that the low voltage light goes on
> if the Buss
> >> voltage is under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as
> shown in Z16.
> >>
> >> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
> >> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
> >> wired the module in accordance with instructions
> >> provided with the device.
> >>
> >>
> >> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting
> with a fully
> >> charged battery and all seemed well. On the second flight
> that day I
> >> noticed that the Alternator under voltage
> >> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the
> electric fuel pump
> >> was on.
> >>
> >> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
> >> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
> >> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
> >> LV warning light.
> >>
> >> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
> engine has a
> >> mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may have advanced the
> >> throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The UV light went out as I
> >> did this.
> >> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for
> a half hour
> >> without incident.
> >>
> >> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
> >>
> >> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
> check it), I
> >> made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument for about 30 minutes
> >> (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started the engine for a few more
> >> go-arounds in the pattern. The engine stared immediately
> so I guess
> >> the battery was charged . However, the low-voltage light
> came on as
> >> soon as I started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
> >> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing electric
> >> turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut down
> (with the
> >> UV light still on) my battery voltage read 12.3V (this is a new
> >> battery).
> >>
> >> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
> >> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
> >> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
> >> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
> >> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
> >> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
> >> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
> >> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
> >> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
> >> levels.
> >>
> >> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate the
> >> problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
> >> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first
> and second,
> >> third. and how do I check them.
> >> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
> >>
> >> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
> >> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
> >> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
> >> RPM would account for what you've observed.
> >>
> >> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
> light come
> >> on as described above when there are no problems?
> >> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
> module. If
> >> one of these blew or got disconnected would it cause this problem?
> >> Since this is easy to check, I plan to look into this first.
> >>
> >> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
> >> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator
> and not the
> >> alternator is the cause?
> >>
> >> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
> >> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if
> so how do I
> >> check the alternator output? If the alternator is bad I
> probably will
> >> have to remove the engine and find a "real" repairman to
> fix it, so I
> >> hope the problem lies elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Any help would really be appreciated.
> >>
> >> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
> >> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
> >> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
> >> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
> >> on it?
> >>
> >> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
> >> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
> >> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
> >> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
> >> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
> >>
> >> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
> >> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
> >> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
> >> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
> >>
> >> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
> >> for the alternator to top off the battery.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Photoshare, and much much more:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cesnna split switch |
Can someone help me find the information I need to wire a split switch batt/
alt into Z16 Rotax 912. I only have one buss.
Thanks
John S
CH701 rotax
John sent me his split-rocker switch so that I could
confirm my suppositions as to how it functioned.
I've published a little 2-pager on interchangeability
of the various toggle and rocker switch versions
in the 'Connection's Z-figures.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Progressive-Xfr_Split-Rocker_Switches.pdf
John, I'll be mailing your switch back in the
morning.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
Werner,
Try the link nowhttp://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6 it should work and navigate to>>Avionics>>>Glass Panels>>>remote monitor.
Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several programs compared
to truemap.
The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra is miles
better than the old Q1.
The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
Milt
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154253#154253
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
I just made a 1600 mile trip with the True Flight FL190 Cheetah GPS which is
on the Q1 Ultra. I was very pleased with the screen display in the sun. I
also flew with my old and trusty (but getting harder to see) Garmin 195 -
even though I had it mounted at 1/2 the distance of the Fl190, it was more
difficult to see under certain conditions - of course, the fact the FL190
Q1 Ultra was color display helped.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 7:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here
goes
>
>
> Werner,
> Try the link
> nowhttp://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
> it should work and navigate to>>Avionics>>>Glass Panels>>>remote monitor.
>
> Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several
> programs compared to truemap.
>
> The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra is
> miles better than the old Q1.
>
> The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
>
> Milt
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154253#154253
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Seminar Date Set for Lawrenceville, GA |
EAA Chapter 690 has graciously offered their hangar
for an AeroElectric Connection weekend seminar on
February 9/10, 2008. Interested parties can get
more information by accessing the announcement and
signup sheet at:
http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Lawrenceville.html
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <brinker(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
Can you post a link to the Flight Cheetah forum. I think I
would like to sign up.
Randy
>>
>> Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several
>> programs compared to truemap.
>>
>> The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra is
>> miles better than the old Q1.
>>
>> The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
>>
>> Milt
>>
>> --------
>> Milt
>> 2003 F1 Rocket
>> 2006 Radial Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here goes |
| From: | "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> |
http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
Not a lot of activity so far but it is the only dedicated to the flight cheetah
forum out there.
brinker(at)suddenlinkmail wrote:
> Can you post a link to the Flight Cheetah forum. I think I
> would like to sign up.
>
> Randy
>
>
> > >
> > > Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several
> > > programs compared to truemap.
> > >
> > > The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra is
> > > miles better than the old Q1.
> > >
> > > The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
> > >
> > > Milt
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Milt
> > > 2003 F1 Rocket
> > > 2006 Radial Rocket
> >
> >
>
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154354#154354
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdalton77" <jdalton77(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
I've been flying behind the Cheetah for six months now - I've had a few
problems with the hardware but the company has always taken care of me. I
love everything it does - more than the 496 plus a huge screen.
Jeff Dalton
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here
goes
>
>
> http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
>
> Not a lot of activity so far but it is the only dedicated to the flight
> cheetah forum out there.
>
>
> brinker(at)suddenlinkmail wrote:
>> Can you post a link to the Flight Cheetah forum. I think I
>> would like to sign up.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several
>> > > programs compared to truemap.
>> > >
>> > > The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra
>> > > is
>> > > miles better than the old Q1.
>> > >
>> > > The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
>> > >
>> > > Milt
>> > >
>> > > --------
>> > > Milt
>> > > 2003 F1 Rocket
>> > > 2006 Radial Rocket
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154354#154354
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy" <brinker(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here |
goes
Thanks I just joined maybe we can stir it up a little and get some activity
going.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: An idea that is kind of out there but here
goes
>
>
> http://www.bearcataviation.com/album_frame.asp?forum=open&menuID=6~6
>
> Not a lot of activity so far but it is the only dedicated to the flight
> cheetah forum out there.
>
>
> brinker(at)suddenlinkmail wrote:
>> Can you post a link to the Flight Cheetah forum. I think I
>> would like to sign up.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Also in the Flight Cheetah forum there iis a comparison of several
>> > > programs compared to truemap.
>> > >
>> > > The remotte moniter is a bit brighter than the Q1 ultra. The Q1 ultra
>> > > is
>> > > miles better than the old Q1.
>> > >
>> > > The Q1 Ultra is the most readable PC I have ever had in the cockpit.
>> > >
>> > > Milt
>> > >
>> > > --------
>> > > Milt
>> > > 2003 F1 Rocket
>> > > 2006 Radial Rocket
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154354#154354
>
>
> --
> 12/25/2007 8:04 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick ONeill" <poneill(at)irealms.com> |
| Subject: | DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
I picked up a DMC Daniels AFM8 (M22520/2-01) crimper from E-bay for use in
crimping d-sub pins.
As I understand it, these are the positioners for the commonly found
avionics connectors:
K13-1 for standard D-sub pins (male and female).
K41 for HD D-sub female
K42 for HD D-sub male
The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone happen
to know what this positioner is used for?
I have been through the Daniel's site and done quite a bit of searching and
have all the specs on the tool, but I'm just curious as to which application
the K1-S accessory is useful.
As for the positioners I still need, does anyone have a source to recommend?
I'll keep an eye on E-bay for a short while, but will probably end up buying
direct from Daniels unless someone has a better recommendation. All the
avionics shops I looked at sell the DMC tools for more than the DMC web
site.
Best Regards,
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com> |
| Subject: | DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
We've probably been bidding against each other. :^) It seem there was a
rash of folks bidding on these and the AMP crimper after the class in
Columbus a couple weeks ago.
I purchased one over Ebay a couple weeks ago. I have a K13-1, but am
looking for the K41 and K42.
I noticed that the DMC site was considerably less than Stein or ACS too.
That's seems really odd to me. Usually Stein will sell for at least the
same as the vendor. I suspect the channel suppliers for the tools are not
competitive otherwise Stein would have had a similar pricing. I can't see
Stein selling a whole bunch of these, so I suspect he isn't getting great
discounts from the distributors.
If you find another source, let us know.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
ONeill
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners
I picked up a DMC Daniels AFM8 (M22520/2-01) crimper from E-bay for use in
crimping d-sub pins.
As I understand it, these are the positioners for the commonly found
avionics connectors:
K13-1 for standard D-sub pins (male and female).
K41 for HD D-sub female
K42 for HD D-sub male
The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone happen
to know what this positioner is used for?
I have been through the Daniel's site and done quite a bit of searching and
have all the specs on the tool, but I'm just curious as to which application
the K1-S accessory is useful.
As for the positioners I still need, does anyone have a source to recommend?
I'll keep an eye on E-bay for a short while, but will probably end up buying
direct from Daniels unless someone has a better recommendation. All the
avionics shops I looked at sell the DMC tools for more than the DMC web
site.
Best Regards,
Patrick
__________ NOD32 2748 (20071227) Information __________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 16:40 12/26/2007, you wrote:
>The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone happen
>to know what this positioner is used for?
Patrick,
I've got a ~3M pdf file that lists DMC tooling and pins. It's
searchable and there were 27 hits for K1S.
Don't remember where I got it and due to size I'm hesitant to post
for those on dial-up.
If you and your ISP's email system can handle the size, I'll fire it
off to you.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
>
>At 16:40 12/26/2007, you wrote:
>
>>The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone happen
>>to know what this positioner is used for?
>
>Patrick,
>I've got a ~3M pdf file that lists DMC tooling and pins. It's searchable
>and there were 27 hits for K1S.
>Don't remember where I got it and due to size I'm hesitant to post for
>those on dial-up.
>If you and your ISP's email system can handle the size, I'll fire it off
>to you.
>
>Ron Q.
Ron,
If you'll send me one, I'll post it to the website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft (updated) |
Hi All,
Well its been kind of slow so I thought I would give a little update
regarding my research into whether or not a "wet" compass is required if
you have a EFIS with a remote external compass feeding a heading to it.
After much research and searching archives of all of the various
airplane groups that I belong to, I finally decided to just mount an
airpath compass on my glareshield and be done with it. I said to myself
- "no sense getting into a pissing match with the DAR over a $160
instrument, just put it in and forget it".
So I purchased the Airpath C2400 lighted compass. It arrived sometime
last week and over Christmas vacation, I finally got out to the airport
to see how it would work with my Bearhawk. I had heard that some people
were having as much as 30 degrees of installation errors in a Bearhawk
with a glareshield mounted compass.
So there I was standing beside my airplane which was pointed in a
generally northward direction. I held the compass out in front of me
and it read 358 degrees. I then reached inside and sat it on the
glareshield centered and as far back from the "V" tubes as I could. It
read "N" 360 degrees. PERFECT, only about 2 degrees off right???
WRONG!!!
I then grabbed the tail and swung it around to point the nose in a
generally south direction. Poked my head inside for a look at the
compass and . . . What's this???? It still says "N" 360 degrees!!! I
grabbed the compass out of the airplane and once again stood next to the
airplane and sure enough the compass now read 178 degrees. Put back on
the glare shield and . . . "N" 360 degrees.
So there I stood, scratching my head, thinking about what I had done to
cause what Erbman would call a "Gross Buffoonery". As I was standing
looking at things, I saw the problem. My lightening fast brain finally
figured out what I had done. When I mounted my XM satellite radio, I
didn't want to run the external antenna all the way outside so I had
simply mounted it up near the windshield right between the "V" braces.
The antenna has a strong magnet built in to allow it to stick to the
roof of your car. Of course it didn't stick to my aluminum boot cowl so
I had just double stick velcroed it in place.
The wire running from the antenna to the Xm radio on the right side of
the instrument panel was included in the main wiring harness and is well
wrapped within the bundle of wires running from the comm and intercom
system. Removing and replacing the XM satellite antenna would take a
long time laying on my back under the instrument panel cutting every tie
wrap I made.
So I decided to do what I should have done in the first place. I called
my DAR to ask him his opinion on the magnetic direction indicator in the
Dynon. I described the Dynon D100 EFIS with its remote magnetic compass
feeding heading information to the Dynon D100. He asked me again what I
was building. I said a Bearhawk. He said "That's Experimental right?"
I said "yes it is". He said "Well then, it falls under FAR part 91.205
which specifically says "Magnetic direction indicator" . He said as long
as the Dynon receives, and displays, a heading based on the Earth's
magnetic field, then it qualifies as a "magnetic heading indicator" as
required in Part 91.205 and he doesn't see why I would need an old
whiskey compass littering up my glareshield.
We talked a bit about redundency and when I told him about my battery
backup of the Dynon as well as a GPS with battery backup as well as a
handheld radio with a VOR indicator, he was more than satisfied.
So problem solved. I called Aircraft Spruce for an RMA number and as of
this morning, the compass is on its way back to Corona, CA and I'll have
a credit for it. Guess I could have saved some shipping $ by simply
calling the DAR first.
Lesson learned and shared.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
Please send me a copy also.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Quillin
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners
At 16:40 12/26/2007, you wrote:
>The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone happen
>to know what this positioner is used for?
Patrick,
I've got a ~3M pdf file that lists DMC tooling and pins. It's
searchable and there were 27 hits for K1S.
Don't remember where I got it and due to size I'm hesitant to post
for those on dial-up.
If you and your ISP's email system can handle the size, I'll fire it
off to you.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
Eric Newton wrote:
> So problem solved.
>
Good for you, Eric.
During the discussion, I promised to take a few pictures of my $9,
"ornamental" compass. I had taken the pictures, but never posted the
links. It turned out even better than I'd hoped.
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/Compass.jpg
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/CockpitFrontLeft.jpg
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/CockpitFrontRight.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Noisy Microphone |
Listers.
I am having trouble getting an audible transmission.
I have wonderful reception.
SL30 and a GNC300XL.
Have tried a couple of headsets, both with muffs on the.
Clarity Aloft Halo and a Marv Golden ANR.
My transmissions are fine a low airspeed and low RPM.
However the cockpit noise at higher airspeeds and RPM seems to be getting
picked up by the microphones. The intercom transmissions (GMA340) are still
fine at high speed and RPM.
It is not electrical interference, at least I don't think it is. I am sure
it is back ground noise. Cozy MIV at anything above 120kts.
Two questions.
How do I get my transmissions to be readable, at the moment at high speed
they are not. I have reports from other AC and I can hear the background
noise in the side tone.
And is it possible that the intercom is clear but the radio transmission is
not or am I imagining this.
I can try and reduce a few air leaks in the canopy but I don't think I can
get it that much quieter.
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Christensen" <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Noisy Microphone |
If the intercom audio is clear then the radio audio should be OK . . . what
are you using for an antenna?
Regards,
Bob in SE Iowa
On Dec 27, 2007 2:35 AM, Chris Byrne wrote:
> jack.byrne(at)bigpond.com>
>
> Listers.
>
> I am having trouble getting an audible transmission.
> I have wonderful reception.
> SL30 and a GNC300XL.
> Have tried a couple of headsets, both with muffs on the.
> Clarity Aloft Halo and a Marv Golden ANR.
>
> My transmissions are fine a low airspeed and low RPM.
>
> However the cockpit noise at higher airspeeds and RPM seems to be getting
> picked up by the microphones. The intercom transmissions (GMA340) are
> still
> fine at high speed and RPM.
> It is not electrical interference, at least I don't think it is. I am sure
> it is back ground noise. Cozy MIV at anything above 120kts.
>
> Two questions.
> How do I get my transmissions to be readable, at the moment at high speed
> they are not. I have reports from other AC and I can hear the background
> noise in the side tone.
> And is it possible that the intercom is clear but the radio transmission
> is
> not or am I imagining this.
>
> I can try and reduce a few air leaks in the canopy but I don't think I can
> get it that much quieter.
>
>
> Chris Byrne
> SYDNEY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 17:43 12/26/2007, you wrote:
> Ron,
>
> If you'll send me one, I'll post it to the website.
>
> Bob . . .
The number of requests prompted me to again search for the link.
I think I found it...
https://www.dmctools.com/_pdf/Catalogs/ConnectorToolingGuide.pdf
Also the DMC site has some new tricks to help identify connectors,
pins and tooling since the last time I visited.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Metcal Soldering Iron |
I have a Metcal soldering iron I bought used on eBay and it works great.
I believe it heats it by sending a high frequency current to the tip of
the iron. (It may also be high voltage, but I don't know.) If I'm
soldering the end of a wire is there any chance that the high frequency
signal from the tip of the iron will damage an expensive piece of
hardware that's attached to the other end of the wire I'm soldering?
Just curious,
Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy, now over 100 hours flight time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Gibson <umgibso1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cabin Heater and Relay |
Happy Holidays everyone, a late response on my part to thank all those that responded
to my inquiry regarding the 40A relay and AS cabin heater.
Unfortunately I had already ordered the cabin heater, it arrived the next day
and I tested it on the bench.... the reply that waving a lit cigarette around
the cabin was more effective was dead on. I couldn't believe it!? The 6" wires
got warmer than the heater!?
I should have known the group could provide some insight prior to ordering.
I was anxious to fill space in the front of the cabin (?!) and help my tail heavy
W&B problem at the same time. Anyways, I returned it to Aircraft Spruce
and when the time comes I will look into heated seat covers or heated clothing
as suggested.... makes sense to put the heat where you need it. ;)
Thanx again for all the replies,
Tony Gibson
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Quinn" <jquinn3(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioners |
Ron,
Would like to get a copy of your pdf file - jquinn3(at)gmail.com
Thanks,
On Dec 26, 2007 7:24 PM, Ron Quillin wrote:
>
> At 16:40 12/26/2007, you wrote:
>
> >The crimp tool I purchased came with a K1-S positioner. Does anyone
> happen
> >to know what this positioner is used for?
>
> Patrick,
> I've got a ~3M pdf file that lists DMC tooling and pins. It's
> searchable and there were 27 hits for K1S.
> Don't remember where I got it and due to size I'm hesitant to post
> for those on dial-up.
> If you and your ISP's email system can handle the size, I'll fire it
> off to you.
>
> Ron Q.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft (updated) |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Let's not forget the charming Gordon Baxter (Bax Seat) tale about getting into
an airplane that had seen better days, taking off northbound, flying north by
the the compass, landing on a north-pointing runway. and finding out later that
the compass hadn't worked at all.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154557#154557
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Metcal Soldering Iron |
>I have a Metcal soldering iron I bought used on eBay and it works
>great. I believe it heats it by sending a high frequency current to the
>tip of the iron. (It may also be high voltage, but I don't know.) If
>I'm soldering the end of a wire is there any chance that the high
>frequency signal from the tip of the iron will damage an expensive piece
>of hardware that's attached to the other end of the wire I'm soldering?
>
>Just curious,
>Dennis Johnson
>Lancair Legacy, now over 100 hours flight time
No. You're correct that the power supply for the
Metcal products is a "radio frequency transmitter"
with 30-50 watts of output at about 500 KHz as
I recall. The heaters located at the tips of
the irons go into a high-impedance state at
RF frequencies at their calibrated temperatures.
Thus two very important features of top-drawer
soldering tools takes place in these products.
Temperature sensing and control right at the
tip and concentration of energy conversion to
heat right at the tip.
There is no risk to sensitive components from
what's going on inside these tools.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. Subaru |
Hello Bob,
Would you please take a look at the included quote from the newly released
installation manual for the Eggenfellner 6 Cylinder Subaru conversion?
In a nutshell, he wants a 20 amp circuit separate from the ECU and #1 Fuel
Pump. Since my battery busses are located in the rear next to the
batteries, should I just run another circuit (20amp fuse) along with the ECU
and #1 Fuel Pump circuits? Or what do you suggest?
See if my dilemma is justified after reading the following:
=====================================================================
QUOTE from Egg. manual:
E6-Series Engine Wiring
1) RED - 20A EFI Power. This wire provides power for your
Electronic Fuel Injection system. This includes the ignition coils
and fuel injector coils.
This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential
Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is
supplying power, this circuit must remain powered.
Use a 20 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker.
Having said all this, it is not strictly necessary for this circuit
to be switched on and off along with the ignition switch at all. If
the ECU is powered down, then it will never trigger the coils and
this circuit will sit idle, consuming no power. However, most
builders will prefer to have this circuit "switched" in order to
minimize the number of "always hot" circuits in the aircraft. This
requires that whatever switch or relay is controlling this circuit,
be capable of reliably handling the 20 Amp load.
END QUOTE
QUOTE:
2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power for the ECU, the
computer that controls your engine.
This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential
Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is supplying
power, this circuit must remain powered.
Use a 5 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker.
This circuit should be switched by your Ignition Switch. Turning
off this circuit effectively shuts down the engine.
END QUOTE
====================================================================
As I understand Z19RB design, it seeks to feed essential engine power from
whichever Battery Bus is "hot" through the Engine Primary and Engine
Secondary OFF/ON switches and the associated bridge rectifiers. With the
batteries in the back, the switches and rectifiers would be located on
and/or near the instrument panel. That takes care of the ECU and #1 Fuel
Pump but what about the ignition coils and fuel injectors which Eggenfellner
calls the "Electronic Fuel Injection System"?
I seem to remember that you do not recommend feeding any load greater than
10A from the Battery busses. Hence the question, how to feed the
"Electronic Fuel Injection system" from a specified 20A source? Do we want
a pair of Three Pole/DT switches and another bridge rectifier w/heat sink
for the 20A load? Or another pair of switches (possibly named "Ignition
Primary OFF/ON" and "Ignition Secondary OFF/ON") and a bridge rectifier with
appropriately sized heat sink? Or do we need one or two relays at the
batteries just for the ignition power?
Thanks,
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Wiring
Eggenfellner Subaru H6 turbo
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL
256-329-2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
Allen,
Those are great questions, I do hope Bob will weigh in. I am working a very similar
system (Z19 RB) with my Suzuki engine, using the RotaryAviation (RA) EC2
engine controller. Coils at 20 Amps, EFI controller at 5 Amps, Injectors at 10
Amps.
RA advises not running the injector and coil wires together, or with other wires,
due to the high current pulses generated by the EFI controller. That makes
things a bit tricky with my pusher aircraft, as batteries, coils, injectors are
all in the rear, and switches are up front. I was toying with using relays to
in the rear to control the coils/injectors, switched from the front. Thinking
this keeps the high current pulses back there.
Anyway, good questions. And good luck on your project.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154655#154655
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. Subaru |
12/28/2007
Hello Allen,
You posted: "QUOTE: 2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power for the
ECU, the computer that controls your engine."
Does that computer incorporate a low power "limp home mode" for the engine?
A fellow builder had his engine go into that mode on the second flight and
put his airplane down into an orchard. Airplane destroyed, pilot badly
injured.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-------------------------------------------------------
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg.
Subaru
Hello Bob,
Would you please take a look at the included quote from the newly released
installation manual for the Eggenfellner 6 Cylinder Subaru conversion?
In a nutshell, he wants a 20 amp circuit separate from the ECU and #1 Fuel
Pump. Since my battery busses are located in the rear next to the
batteries, should I just run another circuit (20amp fuse) along with the ECU
and #1 Fuel Pump circuits? Or what do you suggest?
See if my dilemma is justified after reading the following:
====================================================================
QUOTE from Egg. manual:
E6-Series Engine Wiring
1) RED - 20A EFI Power. This wire provides power for your
Electronic Fuel Injection system. This includes the ignition coils
and fuel injector coils.
This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential
Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is
supplying power, this circuit must remain powered.
Use a 20 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker.
Having said all this, it is not strictly necessary for this circuit
to be switched on and off along with the ignition switch at all. If
the ECU is powered down, then it will never trigger the coils and
this circuit will sit idle, consuming no power. However, most
builders will prefer to have this circuit "switched" in order to
minimize the number of "always hot" circuits in the aircraft. This
requires that whatever switch or relay is controlling this circuit,
be capable of reliably handling the 20 Amp load.
END QUOTE
QUOTE:
2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power for the ECU, the
computer that controls your engine.
....................... BIG SKIP ..............................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
Power loss to any of these circuits will kill the engine. Limp Home
simply means the engine has lost some sensor information and is
defaulting to preset nomimal values that will keep the engine running
but often with degraded performance. Some engines will run normally in
certain limp modes. For example it may continue to run normally after
the loss of either the crankshaft or camshaft sensor but it will not
restart if shutdown. If the engine is running well, I don't recommend
turning the "igniton key" off and back on in flight just because the
check engine light is on. OTOH that might fix the problem if it was an
intermittant sensor glitch and the engine is running poorly or has quit.
Some guys claim "limp home" problems but haven't even installed the
check engine light which reduces their credibility a bit.
If you look at the automotive wiring, all these wires are generally
bundled together with everything else so it is not critical to isolate
them. I like to use twisted pairs for things like injectors and ignition
coils if convenient though. I suspect that it makes more sense to
isolate audio wiring if possible rather than ignition or injector wiring.
Ken
bakerocb(at)cox.net wrote:
>
> 12/28/2007
>
> Hello Allen,
>
> You posted: "QUOTE: 2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power
> for the ECU, the computer that controls your engine."
>
> Does that computer incorporate a low power "limp home mode" for the
> engine?
>
> A fellow builder had his engine go into that mode on the second flight
> and put his airplane down into an orchard. Airplane destroyed, pilot
> badly injured.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather
> and understand knowledge."
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom |
and pin-out d
| From: | "enewbold" <ednewbold(at)enewbold.com> |
The first link to the diagrams doesn't work. Could you please repost it? I'm installing
the A200 and badly need some assistance with the wiring.
Thanks very much,
Ed in Ohio
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154716#154716
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
Another builder asked me to forward this because he's on
vacation, but wanted to join in the thread:
"But another very important issue regarding magnetism is that the steel
parts in the plane can pick up residual magnetism from permanent magnets
and it can be a real problem to sniff out and get rid of with a
magnaflux (I think he means degaussing -Tim) tool. I believe a I made
a complete posting regarding this in the RV10-list archive. But even
the helical steel coil in scat tubing is capable of causing totally
eronous compass readings. I had this occur when we re-did the
instrument panel in our glastar. I even avoid using magnetic tip tools
now that I've seen how difficult it can be to solve the residual
magnetism problem.
-bob newman
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> So one of the morals to the story is that magnetic base antennas
> have no place in an airplane. They won't just screw with your
> nearby compass but can screw with your much more sensitive EFIS
> magnetometer as well. Any antenna with a magnet should be cut
> apart and have it's magnet yanked...if you're going to use it
> in the plane.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom |
and pin-out d
>
>The first link to the diagrams doesn't work. Could you please repost it?
>I'm installing the A200 and badly need some assistance with the wiring.
>
>Thanks very much,
>Ed in Ohio
I published a suite of suggested wiring information
on the A200 at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Icom-ICA200_Wiring_Diagrams.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Icom_ICA200_Installation_Manual.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft (updated) |
NExt time you start your airplane, watch the compass as you crank. You will
be surprised at the way it swings in reaction to the high current loads from
the battery to the starter. And that can magnetize local ferrous structures
- thus the need to "swing" the compass on a recurrent basis to catch induced
"new" errors.
Most importantly - use the compass to make sure you are on the right runway
as final before take off checklist item.............. a crash a couple years
ago due to wrong runway!
Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the compass.
I've enjoyed the back and forth about the need for a compass in
experimentals - My glastar has one, so I am covered.
bobf
On 12/28/07, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> Another builder asked me to forward this because he's on
> vacation, but wanted to join in the thread:
>
> "But another very important issue regarding magnetism is that the steel
> parts in the plane can pick up residual magnetism from permanent magnets
> and it can be a real problem to sniff out and get rid of with a
> magnaflux (I think he means degaussing -Tim) tool. I believe a I made
> a complete posting regarding this in the RV10-list archive. But even
> the helical steel coil in scat tubing is capable of causing totally
> eronous compass readings. I had this occur when we re-did the
> instrument panel in our glastar. I even avoid using magnetic tip tools
> now that I've seen how difficult it can be to solve the residual
> magnetism problem.
>
> -bob newman
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> > So one of the morals to the story is that magnetic base antennas
> > have no place in an airplane. They won't just screw with your
> > nearby compass but can screw with your much more sensitive EFIS
> > magnetometer as well. Any antenna with a magnet should be cut
> > apart and have it's magnet yanked...if you're going to use it
> > in the plane.
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
Not sure about a "limp home" mode?
Allen
>>>Does that computer incorporate a low power "limp home mode"
>>>for the engine?
>>>
>>>A fellow builder had his engine go into that mode on the
>>>second flight and
>>>put his airplane down into an orchard. Airplane destroyed,
>>>pilot badly
>>>injured.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
Regular automobile engine controller units often have this 'limp home mode'. They
detect things that might be detrimental to the car engine, and reduce the RPM
output, etc. (high H2O temp, low oil pressure,...) You can pull over and call
a tow truck.
Obviously this is not a good thing flying. As I understand it, many of the add-on
electronic fuel injection systems specifically for cars do not have this 'feature'
either, or at least allow you to disable it. The two systems that I am
familiar with specifically for flying, the RotaryAviation EC2 and the SDS systems
do not have this mode. A reason I choose to go this route in the first place.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154796#154796
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
If I recall correctly, Jan and Gary have both said that the Egg Subaru does
not have a low power limp home mode.
They STRONGLY suggest having the Engine (ECU and EFI) as well as the fuel
pumps powered by an essential bus that you can isolate. On page 51 of the
installation manual, there is a pretty simple diagram showing how the
essential bus gets isolated. Two batteries, two continuous duty relays (Main
and Aux), and two battery switches. The e-bus power connection is upstream
of the CD relay and 'always hot', isolated by a double throw switch
downstream.
Personally, I am going to be using a combination of Z19RB and the layout
from Eggenfellner. However, my electrical is still in design mode.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Friday, 28 December, 2007 14:51
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on
Egg. Subaru
Not sure about a "limp home" mode?
Allen
>>>Does that computer incorporate a low power "limp home mode"
>>>for the engine?
>>>
>>>A fellow builder had his engine go into that mode on the
>>>second flight and
>>>put his airplane down into an orchard. Airplane destroyed,
>>>pilot badly
>>>injured.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
| Subject: | Lead Acid Batteries |
FYI - audio cast from today's AvWeb
*AVIATION CONSUMER REVEALS "WHY AIRCRAFT BATTERIES DON'T
LAST"<http://www.avweb.com/alm?podcast20071224&kw=AVwebAudio>
*
Usually it's because the owner or operator let them discharge too deeply or
too often, according to Concorde's Skip Koss, who discussed battery
technology and longevity with *Aviation
Consumer*<http://www.avweb.com/alm?avcons&kw=podcast>'s
Paul Bertorelli. In its January issue, the magazine features an in-depth
comparison of aircraft batteries, with some surprising results.
Click here <http://www.avweb.com/podcast/files/2007-12-24_AvCons.mp3> to
listen. *(11.8 MB, 12:55)*
*Sam
*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins(at)MCHSI.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
This discussion is interesting to me, also.
I will be installing the upcoming RWA EC3 controller
<http://www.rotaryaviation.com/eficont.html>(first production of new rev to
be fiirst released in late February). This controller features redundancy
by building two ignition/EFI controllers intone box. I have added a second
high pressure pump for additional redundancy.
I am working on Z-19RB, and as I was designing the switching for any
combination of Main/Endurance & A/B controller & main/backup pump, the
installation got pretty cumbersome.
There must be a simpler way to go.
Sam Hoskins
On Dec 28, 2007 5:18 PM, Scott R. Shook wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, Jan and Gary have both said that the Egg Subaru
> does
> not have a low power limp home mode.
>
> They STRONGLY suggest having the Engine (ECU and EFI) as well as the fuel
> pumps powered by an essential bus that you can isolate. On page 51 of the
> installation manual, there is a pretty simple diagram showing how the
> essential bus gets isolated. Two batteries, two continuous duty relays
> (Main
> and Aux), and two battery switches. The e-bus power connection is
> upstream
> of the CD relay and 'always hot', isolated by a double throw switch
> downstream.
>
> Personally, I am going to be using a combination of Z19RB and the layout
> from Eggenfellner. However, my electrical is still in design mode.
>
> Scott R. Shook
> RV-7A (Building)
> N696JS (Reserved)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
> Fulmer
> Sent: Friday, 28 December, 2007 14:51
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors
> on
> Egg. Subaru
>
>
>
> Not sure about a "limp home" mode?
>
> Allen
>
> >>>Does that computer incorporate a low power "limp home mode"
> >>>for the engine?
> >>>
> >>>A fellow builder had his engine go into that mode on the
> >>>second flight and
> >>>put his airplane down into an orchard. Airplane destroyed,
> >>>pilot badly
> >>>injured.
>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
--
Sam Hoskins
www.MistakeProofing.Net
www.MistakeProofing.net/blog/
618-967-0016 ph.
312-212-4086 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim McBurney" <jmcburney(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Need a dc-to-dc converter |
Hi, List,
I'm building a Zenith CH-801 and am planning on using a DeltaHawk diesel
engine. DeltaHawk uses a 24v starter but the flap and trim motors and the
strobes require a 14v system. Does anyone know where I can get a 24 to 12v
converter that can provide 5A continuous and 10A intermittent? I'm averse
to using a tap on the battery string (2 batteries of 12v each) as I've had
really bad experience doing that without an equalizer, and those things are
really heavy. Suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
90% done 90% left
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob-tcw" <rnewman(at)tcwtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a dc-to-dc converter |
Jim,
Although not a general purpose DC-DC converter, but for the common
trim systems such as the Ray-Allen servo based systems the Safety-Trim
intelligent controller takes care of this requirement of operating from 28
Volts but driving servos only rated for 14 volts. The Safety-Trim servo
controller as an input voltage range of 10-30 volts and has a maximum output
voltage of 14 volts. We've had a few customers chose our product with
same application of the DeltaHawk diesel and Ray allen trim servos.
-Best regards,
Bob Newman
TCW Technologies
www.tcwtech.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim McBurney" <jmcburney(at)pobox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need a dc-to-dc converter
>
>
> Hi, List,
>
> I'm building a Zenith CH-801 and am planning on using a DeltaHawk diesel
> engine. DeltaHawk uses a 24v starter but the flap and trim motors and the
> strobes require a 14v system. Does anyone know where I can get a 24 to
> 12v
> converter that can provide 5A continuous and 10A intermittent? I'm averse
> to using a tap on the battery string (2 batteries of 12v each) as I've had
> really bad experience doing that without an equalizer, and those things
> are
> really heavy. Suggestions are appreciated!
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
> CH-801
> DeltaHawk diesel
> 90% done 90% left
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on |
Egg. Subaru
Mike, I have flow with the Real World Concepts EC2 Fuel Injection controller
for close to 5 years now. You are correct it does not have any features
which would automatically shut down the engine or reduce power- such as the
over temp protection shut down in some automobile CPUs.
It does have two completely separate and redundant computing systems
(Controller A and Controller B) which can be selected by flipping a switch.
So that means you could play with the fuel map setting of one controller and
should you manage to stop the engine (hard to do but certainly possible) ,
you can simply switch to the other controller (which hopefully you have left
with a runnable fuel map {:>)).
There have been some experimenters with alternative engines early on which
found out about the automobile CPU "protective" features at a most awkward
time - but, I believe most are now aware of that potential hazard.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on
Egg. Subaru
>
> Regular automobile engine controller units often have this 'limp home
> mode'. They detect things that might be detrimental to the car engine, and
> reduce the RPM output, etc. (high H2O temp, low oil pressure,...) You can
> pull over and call a tow truck.
>
> Obviously this is not a good thing flying. As I understand it, many of the
> add-on electronic fuel injection systems specifically for cars do not have
> this 'feature' either, or at least allow you to disable it. The two
> systems that I am familiar with specifically for flying, the
> RotaryAviation EC2 and the SDS systems do not have this mode. A reason I
> choose to go this route in the first place.
>
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154796#154796
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis & Anne Glaeser" <glaesers(at)wideopenwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
My Egg-Subaru electrical system has a hot bus for each battery, and each one
powers the ECU, Ignition, and a fuel pump (dual parallel systems). I
uploaded my engine system diagram to the photos section of the Eggenfeller
Yahoo List (Dennis Glaeser - RV-7A - the one showing a battery box). I'm
not a big fan of the 4P3T switch shown in the installation manual (expensive
and SPOF).
Dennis Glaeser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MR Corder <mike.corder(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Backup alternator questions |
I have the B&C 8 amp backup alternator along with a main Plane Power 60
amp unit. When I have them both on line, it seems like the voltage jumps
around a lot. Suspect the two voltage regulators are "fighting" each
other as voltage is stable with either unit running by itself. Is this a
problem ?
I'd like to leave the backup unit offline and only bring it online when
the primary unit goes away. However, since both warning lights are taken
to Ground to light up, I can't figure out a circuit which would allow
this mode of operation. Any suggestions ?
--
Regards,
m
____________________________
mike.corder(at)sbcglobal.net
Cell 831-239-0915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Talbot" <richard(at)talbots.net.au> |
G'day All,
I have most of my panel wired up. I have a fairly complicated layout and
would like to follow the labelling suggestions included with the
Aeroelectric Connection. I am intending to paint the panel a matt grey to
minimise reflections in the canopy.
How have people transferred the lettering to their panels? I'm specifically
wanting to print or transfer the lettering, diagrams to the panel after it
has been painted.
Thanks
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal |
Ed as I emailed you off the Experimental Avionics list hear is more
info with some links to the drawings I mentioned. I did not realize
you had TWO radios?
You can down load the manuals (pdf) not photo copied here
directly from ICOM:
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/avionics/panelmount/a200/default.aspx
Ed you have two radios? and you want to use the internal
intercom? I am thinking you would be better served with with an
intercom and/or auto panel. You can make a mess or wires and
switches (and a few resistors and capacitors) to make two radios
work and still use the ICOM A200's internal intercom but WHY?
Really seriously the ICOM A200 intercom is just a HOT mic and not
very good. Remember when you switch radios you will switch
intercoms. You also reslize that the intercom is not voice activated
or VOX. You have to select it. You can't transmit on the radio and
have the intercom at the same time, one or the other.
However if you want to use it, here are some drawings as an
adjunct to the manual which might be clearer.
This is more illustrated wiring picture with the external intercom
switch (DPDT) shown:
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/8466/icoma2004lh.jpg
May a better way to wire the intercom is to use two buttons, one for
PTT and one for INTERCOM. Of course you can have two PTTs
and two INTERCOM buttons for a total of four.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7822/dualbuttonwiringgz2.jpg
You can avoid a audio panel but you will need a switch to select
the radio you want to transmit on. You will slave the audio from one
ICOM to the second. This is kind of a work around.:
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3088/icomblock5xg.jpg
Again if you have two radios you really should get an audio panel/
VOX intercom in my opinion. You can get a used audio panel for a
few $100. A new one perfect for you from PS Engineering:
http://www.ps-engineering.com/pma4000.shtml
You realize the internal intercom is a HOT MIC intercom and the
volume has no adjustment. There is no squelch and you basically
have to select transmit or intercom but not both. I really would
encourage you to get a VOX intercom. If you have two radios an
audio panel could be real nice. eBay as them used or you could
build a RST
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/audio_panel.html
Good Luck Happy New Year. George
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ed clegg" <edwclg(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Another wet compas problem |
Hi All,
I placed a wet compass in my panel on the upper left side. With the canopy
open-RV8- it reads approx correct. As I close the canopy this compass starts
rotating to the right and when completely clsd the compass is Off 50
degrees.
It would appear that the canopy frame is magnetized. If this is so how would
one go about the fix for this.
Thanks,
Ed Clegg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup alternator questions |
>
>I have the B&C 8 amp backup alternator along with a main Plane Power 60
>amp unit. When I have them both on line, it seems like the voltage jumps
>around a lot. Suspect the two voltage regulators are "fighting" each other
>as voltage is stable with either unit running by itself. Is this a problem ?
Won't hurt anything but these two devices were
not designed nor intended to operate together.
>I'd like to leave the backup unit offline and only bring it online when
>the primary unit goes away. However, since both warning lights are taken
>to Ground to light up, I can't figure out a circuit which would allow this
>mode of operation. Any suggestions ?
Wire per 13/8 and leave the waring light off
the SD8.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
bobf wrote:
"Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the
compass."
Let's not get track (what a GPS gives you) confused with heading (what
your compass gives you). We've all seen those cross wind days where
track and heading differ by 30 degrees. That's the beauty of the EFIS
systems that compare magnetic-driven heading (your magnetometer being
essentially a compass) to GPS track, then do the math, and tell you the
wind magnitude and direction.
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
>>I have flow with the Real World Concepts EC2 Fuel Injection controller
for close to 5 years now. You are correct it does not have any features
which would automatically shut down the engine or reduce power- such as the
over temp protection shut down in some automobile CPUs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154889#154889
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Butler" <andrewbutler(at)ireland.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup alternator questions |
Hi Mike,
Attached is my Z13/8 variation that splits the bus for dual power supply
to an electronic ignition with a cross over relay in case either power
supply fails.
Haven't wired it up yet, but this is my general plan. I also struggled
with a low voltage warning for each power supply prior to splitting the
bus, and I ended up concluding that it doesn't make real sense unless the
bus is split.
In practise, I will probably monitor the backup bus voltage from my
AFS3500 EFIS, that allows you to hook up a primary and secondary power
source and then set alarms on each.
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MR Corder"
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Backup alternator questions
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:51:35 -0800
I have the B&C 8 amp backup alternator along with a main Plane Power
60 amp unit. When I have
them both on line, it seems like the voltage jumps around a lot.
Suspect the two voltage
regulators are "fighting" each other as voltage is stable with either
unit running by itself. Is
this a problem ?
I'd like to leave the backup unit offline and only bring it online
when the primary unit goes
away. However, since both warning lights are taken to Ground to light
up, I can't figure out a
circuit which would allow this mode of operation. Any suggestions ?
-- Regards,
m
____________________________
mike.corder(at)sbcglobal.net
Cell 831-239-0915
===========
===========
===========
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need a dc-to-dc converter |
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
At 16:35 12/28/2007, you wrote:
>I'm building a Zenith CH-801 and am planning on using a DeltaHawk diesel
>engine. DeltaHawk uses a 24v starter but the flap and trim motors and the
>strobes require a 14v system. Does anyone know where I can get a 24 to 12v
>converter that can provide 5A continuous and 10A intermittent? I'm averse
>to using a tap on the battery string (2 batteries of 12v each) as I've had
>really bad experience doing that without an equalizer, and those things are
>really heavy. Suggestions are appreciated!
See eBay 130186327983 used item from Wentworth.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> |
Hi guys,
I hope this isn't an argument for discarding the compass in lieu of the
GPS. I've already been in white-out conditions and the GPS indicating
its batteries were
failing. The compass got me back, not a great distance, but good enough
for the mere 20 miles from home. Makes no sense to not have a good
working compass
on board and one in your emergency bag too.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
>
> bobf wrote:
>
> Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the
> compass.
>
> Lets not get track (what a GPS gives you) confused with heading (what
> your compass gives you). Weve all seen those cross wind days where
> track and heading differ by 30 degrees. Thats the beauty of the EFIS
> systems that compare magnetic-driven heading (your magnetometer being
> essentially a compass) to GPS track, then do the math, and tell you
> the wind magnitude and direction.
>
> TDT
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Mike, sounds like a good plan.
With the Rotary and dual spark plugs, its possible to set up an electric circuit
such that each coil and each pair of injectors have their own circuit breaker/fuse.
With each wired directly to battery with its own circuit, you would have
to lose power to both coils or both injector pairs to take you down.
I can certainly understand not wanting to run any more wire than necessary with
your canard. Leaving the juice to the coils and injectors sounds like a reasonable
scheme. I know the injectors will not draw any current unless triggered
by the EC2, however, I am not as certain about the injector modules. Certainly
without being trigger there would not be as much a power drain but, I think
I would want to hook up an ignition coil to power and an ampere meter to confirm
no power drain. It does not take much over several weeks of setting in a
hanger to pull a battery down.
Here is another thought. The Contactors used in many aircraft to enable starters
and other high current devices have a good reliability history as far as I
can tell. I've been using the same ones for 10 years. You might consider two
of them installed in rear to make the circuit to the coils and injectors (actually
they handle so much current, contactors are probably over kill for this
application). Then you would only need two small current wires (plus a common
ground of course) and two switches up front to activate the contactors.
You need to keep the system as simple and with as few components as practical.
Although I do not like leaving power to a system on when I am away from it -
that might turn out to be the simplest method for certain.
Decisions, Decisions, Decisions. Happy New year
Ed
--------
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154915#154915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Feldtman" <bobf(at)feldtman.com> |
Very true! and also all that magnetic deviation that changes yearly...That
is why I do have the whiskey compass in the plane
bobf
On 12/29/07, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
>
>
> bobf wrote:
>
> "Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the compass
.
> "
>
>
> Let's not get track (what a GPS gives you) confused with heading (what
> your compass gives you). We've all seen those cross wind days where trac
k
> and heading differ by 30 degrees. That's the beauty of the EFIS systems
> that compare magnetic-driven heading (your magnetometer being essentially
a
> compass) to GPS track, then do the math, and tell you the wind magnitude
and
> direction.
>
>
> TDT
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
= *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
You can, in fact, set your DG accurately with a GPS while taxiing. Sure
it will precess, but by that time you've got a pretty good idea if the
winds aloft are a factor. Better yet - throw the DG away and get an EFIS
with a remote magnetometer.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
> On 12/29/07, *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy * > wrote:
>
>
>
> bobf wrote:
>
> "Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the
> compass."
>
>
>
> Let's not get track (what a GPS gives you) confused with heading
> (what your compass gives you). We've all seen those cross wind
> days where track and heading differ by 30 degrees. That's the
> beauty of the EFIS systems that compare magnetic-driven heading
> (your magnetometer being essentially a compass) to GPS track, then
> do the math, and tell you the wind magnitude and direction.
>
>
>
> TDT
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
>
>*
>*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Noisy Microphone. |
Thanks to everyone who gave advice.
Results
I switched antenna's, no joy.
Checked earths and found a lose earth, no joy
Adjusted microphone gain on headset, no joy
All the while the transmission on the GNC300XL has been great as has the
reception on the SL30.
Transmission on the SL30 has been full of background noise and unreadable.
Fixed it.
The SL30 has its own microphone gain that is easy to adjust. It has a range
of 1 to 256 and is preset at 128.
To get a good transmission I had to wind it back to 1.
Its fine now.
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rodney Dunham, M.D." <rdunhamtn(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Another wet compas problem |
Ed,
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but...
Any ferrous metal will attract your compass needle. So, unless the metal
stuff you're moving with the canopy is nonferrous metal it will cause a
deflection of the needle. Even if not magnetized. You might try moving the
compass to the midline of the plane and see if competing forces cancel out.
Also, you may want to do this experiment outside the hangar and away from
any power lines, etc... A good place is the compass rose at your airport.
Rodney in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another wet compas problem |
ed clegg wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I placed a wet compass in my panel on the upper left side. With the canopy
> open-RV8- it reads approx correct. As I close the canopy this compass starts
> rotating to the right and when completely clsd the compass is Off 50
> degrees.
> It would appear that the canopy frame is magnetized. If this is so how would
> one go about the fix for this.
> Thanks,
> Ed Clegg
>
Try to find a TV repair technician who will loan you his degaussing
tool. It's basically a big coil of wire with an AC cord & switch. It
generates a constantly changing magnetic field, due to the AC current
flowing through it. You power it up and bring it slowly closer to the
object you want to demagnetize. Move it slowly around the object holding
it as close as possible. Then slowly move it away, as you continue to
move it around the object. Don't turn it off until it's several feet
away from anything you want to avoid magnetizing.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "earl_schroeder(at)juno.com" <earl_schroeder(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another wet compas problem |
If memory serves, using the old type gun looking soldering irons used to work also..
Earl
-- Charlie England wrote:
ed clegg wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I placed a wet compass in my panel on the upper left side. With the canopy
> open-RV8- it reads approx correct. As I close the canopy this compass starts
> rotating to the right and when completely clsd the compass is Off 50
> degrees.
> It would appear that the canopy frame is magnetized. If this is so how would
> one go about the fix for this.
> Thanks,
> Ed Clegg
>
Try to find a TV repair technician who will loan you his degaussing
tool. It's basically a big coil of wire with an AC cord & switch. It
generates a constantly changing magnetic field, due to the AC current
flowing through it. You power it up and bring it slowly closer to the
object you want to demagnetize. Move it slowly around the object holding
it as close as possible. Then slowly move it away, as you continue to
move it around the object. Don't turn it off until it's several feet
away from anything you want to avoid magnetizing.
Charlie
_____________________________________________________________
Orchard Bank MasterCard
Get your credit on track with an Orchard Bank MasterCard
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/JKFkuJi7EpInP9rnnLhp0IcKeEmZw4zLN7YtmWRa4QXfFPMotTRHol/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Tap into antenna coax? |
I realize this is an old post but the link below:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
returns a page not found, I tried looking manually for the info but seem to
not be able to find it.
Can anyone advise ?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax?
Don't know how long Jim's had his butt-ugly hand held antenna adapter
article posted. My own version is at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
HOWEVER, the top paragraph of my article cites the preferred way
of breaking into the feedline for your comm antenna . . . put a
male/female junction in the feedline with some excess coiled under
a seat or behind a velcro'ed upholstery panel. The coax "T" will not
work and puts one or both radio's receivers at risk for damage by
the other radio's transmitter.
Bob . . .
>
>
>James E. Clark wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Another option ...
> >
> >King used to make an adapter for their KX99 Handheld that can be used.
> >Basically the mini jack/plug arrangement opens the coax from the panel
and
> >closes the connection to the handheld. It is all done in a neat little
box
> >and you get a mini->coax pigtail.
> >
> >Don't know if they still sell them or not.
> >
> >James
> >
>
>snipped
>
>You can make one of these for yourself if you're handy with a soldering
>iron. Jim Weir actually described construction in an old Kitplanes article.
>http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/KP0203/KP0203.htm
>The design won't make HAM radio guys or RF engineer types happy, but it
>works fine considering the limited use it will get. If you're really
>worried, put it in a little aluminum box.
>
>Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
I guess this is more of a question for BOB but I figured the list might have
info on it also:
I was getting ready to do my Electrical system Final design after many
different version - ideas and after re-reading several articles and "the
book". I seem to need to know what the current status of the new AEC9004
Alternator controller.
My understanding is that this device will be able to control an internally
regulated Alternator on-off and also be able to handle the "possibility" of
"load dump" triggered by Crow bar Over volt protection in the current z24
diag.
Ref article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
If it is not done, time frame?
Are there any changes to the doc to do until it is ready?
I have an internally regulated alternator, and am planning on getting an
SD-20 for emergency mode of main alternator failure.
Thanks in advance
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
Ed,
Good suggestion on the relays/contactors. I was recently exploring this option
and might experiment it out. I am already using a Perihelion Design Powerlink
Jr solid state relay for the Z19 E-bus alternate feed, with max capacity of 35
amps. It is a nice, compact package good for a high-vibration location. Another
of these might do the trick in the case of the coils. I don't like increasing
part counts but ....
I still wish Bob would weigh in on these design issues, as an outgrowth of the
Z19 design. I've seen these same questions come up but nobody has really addressed
them as a part of that scheme as far as I can tell.
Fly safe,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155085#155085
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Christian <edchristian(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Help with D-Sub pin |
I am redoing a panel. I am trying to use a Dynon D-100 to send
altitude encoding info to to a KT76A (bought the Encoder converter) -
no problem. I also want to use the D-100 to send encoder info to a
Garmin 300XL GPS/COMM - this unit can receive grey code or serial, I
elect to go the grey code route and I am looking for a 3 way 9-pin
connector - any suggestions? Is it possible to split the D-100 Serial
Transmit wire to both the converter (for the transponder) and the
Garmin GPS?
Also, anyone know standard order parts for 37 pin D-Sub pin male/
female and pins (both) - Mauser or DigiKey? This is to make Avionics
ground bus.
Thanks,
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help with D-Sub pin |
Edward Christian wrote:
>
>
> I am redoing a panel. I am trying to use a Dynon D-100 to send altitude
> encoding info to to a KT76A (bought the Encoder converter) - no problem.
> I also want to use the D-100 to send encoder info to a Garmin 300XL
> GPS/COMM - this unit can receive grey code or serial, I elect to go the
> grey code route and I am looking for a 3 way 9-pin connector - any
> suggestions? Is it possible to split the D-100 Serial Transmit wire to
> both the converter (for the transponder) and the Garmin GPS?
>
> Also, anyone know standard order parts for 37 pin D-Sub pin male/female
> and pins (both) - Mauser or DigiKey? This is to make Avionics ground bus.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
If it's a standard d-sub connector with 9 pins, go to ebay & enter 'db-9
splitter'. I got 0 auction hits but several ebay store hits, including
http://cgi.ebay.com/RS232-DB-9-Serial-SPLITTER-Cable-1Female-to-2-Male_W0QQitemZ6725976345QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41995QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118
for $0.99 buy it now.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lacing tape types |
>On the page linked below they sell 2 types of lacing tape. Polyester -
>recommend for spot tying, and nylon - recommended for continuous
>tying. How do the properties of the two differ and how critical is it to
>use one type or the other for the different tasks? Do you really need both
>types?
>
><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08457.pdf>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08457.pdf
No. I can't imagine where this comes from. First,
nobody does continuous tying any more . . . and
you can continuous tie with binder twine and
spot tie with chalk line . . . material has
more to do with environmental stresses followed
by personal preferences than it does with
specific restraining technique.
My personal preference is for type II,
finish W or H polyester for it's wider temperature range
but either style in either color will serve
your purposes well.
Here's a poop sheet on a major portion of the
Mil-T-43435 lacing tapes.
http://www.gudebrod.com/Electronic/Braid_Lacing_Tape.htm
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Z-14 (regular) Z-14 Fadec and Z-19 |
I have been looking over the differences in the above noted systems.
What I am wondering is:
If I have a dual battery and dual alternator (main 60 amps) and an sd-20
with a Battery dependant engine ECU, with Dual Fuel pumps.
Would you not want to have a cross blend of the above noted systems?
Aka:Z-14 Fadec and add the Note 24 dual power feed Diode bridge for the ECU
and Both Fuel pumps (total of 3 diode brides, one for each item)?
My questions are in Z-14 Fadec diagram where would the power come to feed
the diode bridges and would you put switches in to select it on or off.
If you do not use switches to supply power to the bridges is that setting up
a bad situation having power supplied on both ends of the diode bridges ?
I would think that this design would have been laid out already but I must
be missing something simple probably :-)
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane- New readings |
Bob,
I took some added measurements regarding the possible voltage drop problem
(see earlier email, below) but the results are not consistent. I setup the
Dynon 180 to see buss voltage and current draw. When I started up the
engine with a fully charged battery the over/under voltage (o/v) light,
which is triggered at 12.5V, did not come on although Dynon was saying the
buss was only at 11.8 volts. I flew around for 15-minutes while drawing
between 2 and 4 amps from an ICOM portable VHF and the Dynon. Then I put on
some current hogs like the 50-watt landing light and the strobes. The Dynon
reading dropped to 11.6 volts and the o/v light finally did come on at cruse
RPM. I was drawing about 8-amps at the time according to Dynon. I turned off
the high-draw stuff and the o/v light went off. After flying around for
about 30-minutes I landed. On the ground, even when running up at 4300-RPM
(cruse RPM is 5000) the o/v light came on and stayed on even with minimal
current draw. I turned off the engine and found the voltage across the
battery, measured with a voltmeter, to be 12.8V, which dropped to 12.6V
after turning on the Dynon, which was now reading 11.6V.
Based upon what you told me plus some speculation I am guessing that the
Dynon voltage reading is not correct and should be ignored I also guess
that the battery did not discharge in flight and the voltage regulator was
pumping juice into it as it should be since the battery was at 12.8V when
measured after the flight.
I plan to ignore the light and keep flying. Even if the battery discharges
the ignition should still work (I think it has its own generator) and both
the Dynon and the ICOM radio have internal batteries that will keep going
for an hour or more.
Is the ultimate solution to just stop displaying the Dynon voltage and to
use a much lower intensity, less annoying o/v light?
Thanks again for your help, and have a great New Year.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> -->
>
>
> Robert,
>
> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
>
> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
>
> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
> wired the module in accordance with instructions
> provided with the device.
>
>
> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
> fuel pump was on.
>
> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
> LV warning light.
>
> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
> UV light went out as I did this.
> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
> half hour without incident.
>
> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
>
> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
>
> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
> levels.
>
> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
> second, third. and how do I check them.
> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
>
> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
> RPM would account for what you've observed.
>
> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
> look into this first.
>
> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
> not the alternator is the cause?
>
> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
>
> Any help would really be appreciated.
>
> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
> on it?
>
> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
>
> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
>
> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
> for the alternator to top off the battery.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane- New readings |
Les,
the 1V drop looks like you have the Dynon hooked up behind a diode (1V
voltage drop) do you have somewhere a electrical drawing of your system?
However, when we take into account the 1V drop you would have only 12.8V
charging on your system, which is a bit low so I would suggest you look
at your regulator probably the set point is to (should be between 13.8
and 14.2).
br
Werner
Les Goldner wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I took some added measurements regarding the possible voltage drop problem
> (see earlier email, below) but the results are not consistent. I setup the
> Dynon 180 to see buss voltage and current draw. When I started up the
> engine with a fully charged battery the over/under voltage (o/v) light,
> which is triggered at 12.5V, did not come on although Dynon was saying the
> buss was only at 11.8 volts. I flew around for 15-minutes while drawing
> between 2 and 4 amps from an ICOM portable VHF and the Dynon. Then I put on
> some current hogs like the 50-watt landing light and the strobes. The Dynon
> reading dropped to 11.6 volts and the o/v light finally did come on at cruse
> RPM. I was drawing about 8-amps at the time according to Dynon. I turned off
> the high-draw stuff and the o/v light went off. After flying around for
> about 30-minutes I landed. On the ground, even when running up at 4300-RPM
> (cruse RPM is 5000) the o/v light came on and stayed on even with minimal
> current draw. I turned off the engine and found the voltage across the
> battery, measured with a voltmeter, to be 12.8V, which dropped to 12.6V
> after turning on the Dynon, which was now reading 11.6V.
>
> Based upon what you told me plus some speculation I am guessing that the
> Dynon voltage reading is not correct and should be ignored I also guess
> that the battery did not discharge in flight and the voltage regulator was
> pumping juice into it as it should be since the battery was at 12.8V when
> measured after the flight.
>
> I plan to ignore the light and keep flying. Even if the battery discharges
> the ignition should still work (I think it has its own generator) and both
> the Dynon and the ICOM radio have internal batteries that will keep going
> for an hour or more.
>
> Is the ultimate solution to just stop displaying the Dynon voltage and to
> use a much lower intensity, less annoying o/v light?
>
> Thanks again for your help, and have a great New Year.
> Les
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
>> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>>
>> -->
>>
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
>> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
>>
>> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
>> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
>> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
>> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
>> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
>> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
>> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
>> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
>>
>> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
>> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
>> wired the module in accordance with instructions
>> provided with the device.
>>
>>
>> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
>> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
>> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
>> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
>> fuel pump was on.
>>
>> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
>> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
>> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
>> LV warning light.
>>
>> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
>> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
>> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
>> UV light went out as I did this.
>> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
>> half hour without incident.
>>
>> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
>>
>> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
>> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
>> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
>> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
>> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
>> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
>> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
>> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
>> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
>> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
>> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
>>
>> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
>> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
>> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
>> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
>> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
>> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
>> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
>> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
>> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
>> levels.
>>
>> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
>> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
>> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
>> second, third. and how do I check them.
>> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
>>
>> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
>> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
>> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
>> RPM would account for what you've observed.
>>
>> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
>> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
>> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
>> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
>> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
>> look into this first.
>>
>> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
>> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
>> not the alternator is the cause?
>>
>> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
>> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
>> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
>> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
>> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
>>
>> Any help would really be appreciated.
>>
>> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
>> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
>> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
>> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
>> on it?
>>
>> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
>> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
>> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
>> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
>> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
>>
>> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
>> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
>> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
>> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
>>
>> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
>> for the alternator to top off the battery.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> Photoshare, and much much more:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help with D-Sub pin |
| From: | "rockyjs" <rockyjs(at)MCHSI.COM> |
Hi Ed,
I have the same setup except a FD180. I have wired up the 180 to the encoder and
used a 9pin dsub connector to the King 76A. I wasn't planning on feeding altitude
info to the 300xl but your post has got me thinking. Maybe the serial
lines could be split prior to the Dynon encoder and the 300xl fed with serial
data. I'm not sure if this would work or not? It would simplify the wiring
and only require tapping into the serial wires. Any thoughts
Rocky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155161#155161
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane- New readings |
Les, Wouldn't the ultimate solution be to pull the Dynon and get it serviced
to make sure it's all right? You paid for all the features of the unit, why
not get them tested and or repaired so you really know what's going on?
Rick
On Dec 31, 2007 3:03 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
> >
>
> Les,
>
> the 1V drop looks like you have the Dynon hooked up behind a diode (1V
> voltage drop) do you have somewhere a electrical drawing of your system?
>
> However, when we take into account the 1V drop you would have only 12.8V
> charging on your system, which is a bit low so I would suggest you look
> at your regulator probably the set point is to (should be between 13.8
> and 14.2).
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
> Les Goldner wrote:
> lgold@quantum-associates.com>
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I took some added measurements regarding the possible voltage drop
> problem
> > (see earlier email, below) but the results are not consistent. I setup
> the
> > Dynon 180 to see buss voltage and current draw. When I started up the
> > engine with a fully charged battery the over/under voltage (o/v) light,
> > which is triggered at 12.5V, did not come on although Dynon was saying
> the
> > buss was only at 11.8 volts. I flew around for 15-minutes while drawing
> > between 2 and 4 amps from an ICOM portable VHF and the Dynon. Then I put
> on
> > some current hogs like the 50-watt landing light and the strobes. The
> Dynon
> > reading dropped to 11.6 volts and the o/v light finally did come on at
> cruse
> > RPM. I was drawing about 8-amps at the time according to Dynon. I turned
> off
> > the high-draw stuff and the o/v light went off. After flying around for
> > about 30-minutes I landed. On the ground, even when running up at
> 4300-RPM
> > (cruse RPM is 5000) the o/v light came on and stayed on even with
> minimal
> > current draw. I turned off the engine and found the voltage across the
> > battery, measured with a voltmeter, to be 12.8V, which dropped to 12.6V
> > after turning on the Dynon, which was now reading 11.6V.
> >
> > Based upon what you told me plus some speculation I am guessing that the
> > Dynon voltage reading is not correct and should be ignored I also guess
> > that the battery did not discharge in flight and the voltage regulator
> was
> > pumping juice into it as it should be since the battery was at 12.8Vwhen
> > measured after the flight.
> >
> > I plan to ignore the light and keep flying. Even if the battery
> discharges
> > the ignition should still work (I think it has its own generator) and
> both
> > the Dynon and the ICOM radio have internal batteries that will keep
> going
> > for an hour or more.
> >
> > Is the ultimate solution to just stop displaying the Dynon voltage and
> to
> > use a much lower intensity, less annoying o/v light?
> >
> > Thanks again for your help, and have a great New Year.
> > Les
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> >> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> >> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
> >> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
> >>
> >> -->
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
> >> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
> >>
> >> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
> >> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
> >> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
> >> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
> >> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
> >> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
> >> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
> >> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
> >>
> >> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
> >> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
> >> wired the module in accordance with instructions
> >> provided with the device.
> >>
> >>
> >> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
> >> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
> >> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
> >> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
> >> fuel pump was on.
> >>
> >> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
> >> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
> >> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
> >> LV warning light.
> >>
> >> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
> >> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
> >> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
> >> UV light went out as I did this.
> >> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
> >> half hour without incident.
> >>
> >> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
> >>
> >> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
> >> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
> >> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
> >> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
> >> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
> >> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
> >> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
> >> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
> >> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
> >> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
> >> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
> >>
> >> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
> >> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
> >> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
> >> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
> >> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
> >> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
> >> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
> >> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
> >> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
> >> levels.
> >>
> >> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
> >> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
> >> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
> >> second, third. and how do I check them.
> >> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
> >>
> >> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
> >> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
> >> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
> >> RPM would account for what you've observed.
> >>
> >> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
> >> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
> >> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
> >> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
> >> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
> >> look into this first.
> >>
> >> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
> >> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
> >> not the alternator is the cause?
> >>
> >> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
> >> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
> >> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
> >> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
> >> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Any help would really be appreciated.
> >>
> >> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
> >> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
> >> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
> >> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
> >> on it?
> >>
> >> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
> >> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
> >> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
> >> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
> >> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
> >>
> >> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
> >> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
> >> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
> >> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
> >>
> >> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
> >> for the alternator to top off the battery.
> >>
> >> Bob . . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Photoshare, and much much more:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors |
on Egg. Subaru
>
>Ed,
>
>Good suggestion on the relays/contactors. I was recently exploring this
>option and might experiment it out. I am already using a Perihelion Design
>Powerlink Jr solid state relay for the Z19 E-bus alternate feed, with max
>capacity of 35 amps. It is a nice, compact package good for a
>high-vibration location. Another of these might do the trick in the case
>of the coils. I don't like increasing part counts but ....
>
>I still wish Bob would weigh in on these design issues, as an outgrowth of
>the Z19 design. I've seen these same questions come up but nobody has
>really addressed them as a part of that scheme as far as I can tell.
I'm working on it. My family duties during this
two weeks every year are significant. Just finished
Xmas #2 with my side of the family last night . . .
got New Year's eve to go!
This isn't complicated. I'll be crafting a revision
to Z-19 to accommodate the apparent design goals of
the Eggenfellner installation using the Exp-Bus.
I'm going to fly it by Jan and company to make sure
that what we publish is a viable alternative that
does not violate Jan's original design goals.
I can tell you now that the changes to Z-19 are
exceedingly simple.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
AS a follow up I did a little tweaking on z-14 to illustrate what I mean...
It's attached... please let me know what I am missing as far as adding the
Bridge diodes for both fuel pumps and ECU.
Aka I still have the below questions
Thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
W. Skiba
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC9004 Status?
I guess this is more of a question for BOB but I figured the list might have
info on it also:
I was getting ready to do my Electrical system Final design after many
different version - ideas and after re-reading several articles and "the
book". I seem to need to know what the current status of the new AEC9004
Alternator controller.
My understanding is that this device will be able to control an internally
regulated Alternator on-off and also be able to handle the "possibility" of
"load dump" triggered by Crow bar Over volt protection in the current z24
diag.
Ref article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
If it is not done, time frame?
Are there any changes to the doc to do until it is ready?
I have an internally regulated alternator, and am planning on getting an
SD-20 for emergency mode of main alternator failure.
Thanks in advance
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
Thanks for the heads up, I know several folks will be interested in your input.
No matter how simple you think it is, for many of us this is new territory. I've
learned a boatload from this list (and your book) but it still theory for
me until the bird is flying.
Have a happy new year,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155172#155172
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Degaussing aircraft |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
See: http://www.sacskyranch.com/degaussi.htm
and search " degaussing " and " degaussing submarines " etc.
Check any can of beans in your pantry with a small compass to learn that ferrous
metal objects soaking in the Earth's magnetic field become magnetic too. You
can degauss things locally or globally.
This effect could be minimized by parking your airplane in random compass directions--but
it's not usually practical--there is great Navy stuff online where
you can learn that ships encountering rough seas get magnetized from having their
hull stressed. Same for aircraft, one would suppose.
Philadelphia Experiment anyone?
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155173#155173
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors |
on Egg. Subaru
Bob,
Thanks for your time and effort. We understand the family obligations this
time of year.
You might want to check with Jan first as I think they are moving away from
the EXP Bus, maybe even design/sell their own switch controller.
But there are some of us that are going the Z19RB way in lieu of the EXP (or
possible Egg.) Bus. So the question still remains (to you, a simple mod it
appears): How to appropriately handle the circuits for the 20amp Ign/Inj,
10amp #Fuel Pump, and 5amp ECU? Jan has a diagram on page 51 of the new
E6/E6T manual that shows a #10awg always hot wire coming from Aux(your
"Engine") battery forward to an E-bus, presumably behind the firewall, for
ECU (5 amp), Ign. and Inj. (20 amps), fuel pumps (10 amps), and other
essential (20 amps). Then there is a switch to allow feeding the E-bus from
the main fat wire.
We just want to do it the "Best Way YOU know how!"
By the way, the manual I am quoting is on Jan's web site:
http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/iindex.htm
Thanks,
Allen Fulmer
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Robert
>>>L. Nuckolls, III
>>>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:14 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel
>>>Injectors on Egg. Subaru
>>>
>>>
>>>Nuckolls, III"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ed,
>>>>
>>>>Good suggestion on the relays/contactors. I was recently
>>>exploring this
>>>>option and might experiment it out. I am already using a
>>>Perihelion Design
>>>>Powerlink Jr solid state relay for the Z19 E-bus alternate
>>>feed, with max
>>>>capacity of 35 amps. It is a nice, compact package good for a
>>>>high-vibration location. Another of these might do the
>>>trick in the case
>>>>of the coils. I don't like increasing part counts but ....
>>>>
>>>>I still wish Bob would weigh in on these design issues, as
>>>an outgrowth of
>>>>the Z19 design. I've seen these same questions come up but
>>>nobody has
>>>>really addressed them as a part of that scheme as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> I'm working on it. My family duties during this
>>> two weeks every year are significant. Just finished
>>> Xmas #2 with my side of the family last night . . .
>>> got New Year's eve to go!
>>>
>>> This isn't complicated. I'll be crafting a revision
>>> to Z-19 to accommodate the apparent design goals of
>>> the Eggenfellner installation using the Exp-Bus.
>>> I'm going to fly it by Jan and company to make sure
>>> that what we publish is a viable alternative that
>>> does not violate Jan's original design goals.
>>>
>>> I can tell you now that the changes to Z-19 are
>>> exceedingly simple.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------)
>>> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
>>> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
>>> ( appearance of being right . . . )
>>> ( )
>>> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott R. Shook" <sshook(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors |
on Egg. Subaru
Just an FYI Bob...
I think Jan and Gary were leaning away from the Exp-Bus installations. I
would confirm it with them, but I seem to recall that they were going after
a different solution.
I do know the 2007 Installation Guide, published back in October, doesn't
reference the Exp-Bus.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, 31 December, 2007 08:14
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors
on Egg. Subaru
>
>Ed,
>
>Good suggestion on the relays/contactors. I was recently exploring this
>option and might experiment it out. I am already using a Perihelion Design
>Powerlink Jr solid state relay for the Z19 E-bus alternate feed, with max
>capacity of 35 amps. It is a nice, compact package good for a
>high-vibration location. Another of these might do the trick in the case
>of the coils. I don't like increasing part counts but ....
>
>I still wish Bob would weigh in on these design issues, as an outgrowth of
>the Z19 design. I've seen these same questions come up but nobody has
>really addressed them as a part of that scheme as far as I can tell.
I'm working on it. My family duties during this
two weeks every year are significant. Just finished
Xmas #2 with my side of the family last night . . .
got New Year's eve to go!
This isn't complicated. I'll be crafting a revision
to Z-19 to accommodate the apparent design goals of
the Eggenfellner installation using the Exp-Bus.
I'm going to fly it by Jan and company to make sure
that what we publish is a viable alternative that
does not violate Jan's original design goals.
I can tell you now that the changes to Z-19 are
exceedingly simple.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
>AS a follow up I did a little tweaking on z-14 to illustrate what I mean...
>It's attached... please let me know what I am missing as far as adding the
>Bridge diodes for both fuel pumps and ECU.
>
>Aka I still have the below questions
>Thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
>W. Skiba
>Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:05 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC9004 Status?
>
>
>
>I guess this is more of a question for BOB but I figured the list might have
>info on it also:
>I was getting ready to do my Electrical system Final design after many
>different version - ideas and after re-reading several articles and "the
>book". I seem to need to know what the current status of the new AEC9004
>Alternator controller.
>
>My understanding is that this device will be able to control an internally
>regulated Alternator on-off and also be able to handle the "possibility" of
>"load dump" triggered by Crow bar Over volt protection in the current z24
>diag.
>
>Ref article:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
>
>
>If it is not done, time frame?
This spring. I have a 10 hp alternator drive stand sitting
in my garage . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternator_Test_Stand/DSCN0961.JPG
I thought when I 'retired' from Hawker-Beech in July
that I would have plenty of time to get it running so
that I can finalize development of the AEC9004. Unfortunately,
(or fortunately . . . depending on one's point of view)
I fell into a really demanding consulting task. It took
some months to convince my principals that they didn't
have nearly the depth in staff or facility to deliver
to all the jobs we'd won . . . As of about two weeks ago,
I'm getting a well heeled electronics design, qualification
and fabrication facility here in Wichita to join forces
with our mechanical counterparts in Michigan. The light
at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.
>Are there any changes to the doc to do until it is ready?
No, just install the interim system while keeping in
mind that the alternator should not be shut off while
running above engine idle.
>I have an internally regulated alternator, and am planning on getting an
>SD-20 for emergency mode of main alternator failure.
When the AEC9004 is ready to offer, Z-13/8 will be
modified to feature an internally regulated alternator
with an AEC9004 controller, an SD-8 aux alternator
and the AEC9044 battery capacity meter, lv warn and
e-bus alternate feed controller.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9044/aec9044p1.pdf
I should be back
to a 20hr/week consulting schedule by the time
weather warms up enough to work in the garage!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ronburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
Bob and all,
It is true that Jan no longer requires using the EXP BUS but there are still some
of us slow pokes who purchased one and are installing it with our H-4 engines
that are not yet flying. I went to Bob's course twice and would love to see
his rec. using the EXP BUS which in my case, will be installed with their brackets
attached to ensure no abnormal stress on componets or switches.
Ron Burnett
RV-6A with Eggenfellner H-4
---- "Scott R. Shook" wrote:
============
Just an FYI Bob...
I think Jan and Gary were leaning away from the Exp-Bus installations. I
would confirm it with them, but I seem to recall that they were going after
a different solution.
I do know the 2007 Installation Guide, published back in October, doesn't
reference the Exp-Bus.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, 31 December, 2007 08:14
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors
on Egg. Subaru
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on |
Egg. Subaru
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> This isn't complicated. I'll be crafting a revision
> to Z-19 to accommodate the apparent design goals of
> the Eggenfellner installation using the Exp-Bus.
> I'm going to fly it by Jan and company to make sure
> that what we publish is a viable alternative that
> does not violate Jan's original design goals.
Hi Bob,
Here is a direct link to the current Eggenfellner installation manual:
http://eggenfellneraircraft.com/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf
<http://eggenfellneraircraft.com/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf>
Starting on page 45 is the electrical section.
Thank you so much for looking into this! Go spend some time with your
family. This stuff can wait until you have time to look at it.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on |
Egg. Subaru
Bob
I add my voice to those (and there are hundreds more out there) who will be
very pleased (and will thank you) if you address this issue USING the
ExpBus.
Of course, it will be better if you do both (with and without the ExpBus).
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronburnett(at)charter.net
> Sent: segunda-feira, 31 de Dezembro de 2007 20:57
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors
on Egg.
> Subaru
>
>
> Bob and all,
> It is true that Jan no longer requires using the EXP BUS but there are
still some of
> us slow pokes who purchased one and are installing it with our H-4 engines
that
> are not yet flying. I went to Bob's course twice and would love to see
his rec. using
> the EXP BUS which in my case, will be installed with their brackets
attached to
> ensure no abnormal stress on componets or switches.
> Ron Burnett
> RV-6A with Eggenfellner H-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors |
on Egg. Subaru
>
>
>Bob
>
>I add my voice to those (and there are hundreds more out there) who will be
>very pleased (and will thank you) if you address this issue USING the
>ExpBus.
>Of course, it will be better if you do both (with and without the ExpBus).
>
>Carlos
I thought Eggenfellner had already done this?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Byron Covey" <icovey(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/31/07 |
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Degaussing aircraft
> From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>
>
> Philadelphia Experiment anyone?
Tried it. Twice. Couldn't see the results either time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
Bob,
I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the battery for a
full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current draw from
the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery contactor relay, and the
strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the strobes were
turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter across the battery
before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this normal for a new fully charged
battery?. After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when running
other electrical components?
I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK. Unfortunately I
don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another meter if I want
in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further testing before
changing-out the voltage regulator?
Thanks again for your help.
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 10:55 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> -->
>
>
> Robert,
>
> The low-voltage buss indicator light stays on in my new plane
> and I would really appreciate help to understand what to do about it.
>
> I just finished building a Zenith 701 with a new 100-HP Rotax
> 912 using your Aeroelectric's Z16 schematic. B&C did not have
> the exact Alternator OV detection system shown in the
> schematic and sold me their BC207-1 over and low voltage
> control module that has a warning light which stays on for
> under and flashes for over-voltage. The B&C web site says
> that the low voltage light goes on if the Buss voltage is
> under 12.5V. I wired this module exactly as shown in Z16.
>
> I presume that you tied the OV/LV warning
> light into the main bus as shown in Z16 but
> wired the module in accordance with instructions
> provided with the device.
>
>
> I flew the plane for the first time yesterday starting with a
> fully charged battery and all seemed well. On the second
> flight that day I noticed that the Alternator under voltage
> (UV) light came on with the engine idling when the electric
> fuel pump was on.
>
> The Rotax alternators don't give you much output at
> idle or taxi speeds. It's possible if not probable that
> the bus voltage was indeed too low to turn out the
> LV warning light.
>
> Since I don't need the pump (fuel is gravity fed and the
> engine has a mechanical pump) I just turned it off and may
> have advanced the throttle beyond its high 2000-RPM idle. The
> UV light went out as I did this.
> I was happy and did my first solo flight in the plane for a
> half hour without incident.
>
> Okay. This is pretty much what I would expect.
>
> Today, assuming the battery was fully charged (I did not
> check it), I made some adjustments to the Dynon instrument
> for about 30 minutes (drawing about 1 to 2-amps), and started
> the engine for a few more go-arounds in the pattern. The
> engine stared immediately so I guess the battery was charged
> . However, the low-voltage light came on as soon as I
> started-up and would not go off, even after a 10-minutes
> warm-up, much of it above idle RPM, with almost nothing
> electric turned on. When I taxied back to the hanger and shut
> down (with the UV light still on) my battery voltage read
> 12.3V (this is a new battery).
>
> Get a voltmeter and put it on the bus while you're
> observing the Under-Voltage warning light. So far, the
> observations you've reported seem pretty common. PM
> alternators on the Rotax engines are, first of all,
> small. The BIG guy on the 912 is an 18A machine and
> then ONLY at cruise RPM. If you ran accessories on your
> battery for a time, then it's going to take some time
> to replace that energy . . . and it's not going to happen
> fast except AFTER engine RPMs are raised to flight ops
> levels.
>
> There are probably a lot of things I need to check to isolate
> the problem and need advice as to how to go about doing this.
> What is the most likely cause? What should I check first and
> second, third. and how do I check them.
> Here are some of my (probably dumb) more specific questions:
>
> For the moment, I don't see that your system is
> performing in an unexpected manner. It's designed
> in limitations for alternator output at low engine
> RPM would account for what you've observed.
>
> Is this a definite problem or will the this under voltage
> light come on as described above when there are no problems?
> There are two fuselinks attached to the Alternator OV/UV
> module. If one of these blew or got disconnected would it
> cause this problem? Since this is easy to check, I plan to
> look into this first.
>
> Is it possible that the problem is in the voltage regulator?
> How do you check this out and determine if the regulator and
> not the alternator is the cause?
>
> I'm not certain how to check the alternator or AC voltage.
> First, is this a likely source of the problem? Second, if so
> how do I check the alternator output? If the alternator is
> bad I probably will have to remove the engine and find a
> "real" repairman to fix it, so I hope the problem lies elsewhere.
>
> Any help would really be appreciated.
>
> Let us begin with the reasonable assumption that you
> don't have a problem. Put a smart battery charger
> on the battery and get it topped off. Then go fly
> the airplane. Doesn't your Dynon have a voltage display
> on it?
>
> I would expect the Low Volts warning to stay lit
> until some time after takeoff. You can tell if the
> alternator is working by watching the voltmeter.
> At ramp idle and with electro-whizzies turned ON,
> bus voltage will be decidedly less than 13.0 volts.
>
> As soon as you power up for takeoff, the bus voltage
> should rise . . . not high enough perhaps to turn
> out the light, but if the alternator is working at
> all, bus voltage should come up with engine RPM.
>
> I'm betting the light will go out after a time sufficient
> for the alternator to top off the battery.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
>Bob,
>I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
>I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the battery for a
>full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current draw from
>the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery contactor relay, and the
>strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the strobes were
>turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter across the battery
>before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this normal for a new fully charged
>battery?. After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
>problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when running
>other electrical components?
>I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK. Unfortunately I
>don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another meter if I want
>in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further testing before
>changing-out the voltage regulator?
>Thanks again for your help.
>Les
Absolutely. If you don't already own a good
multimeter, this is an excellent opportunity to
acquire one . . . I just realized that all
of our discussions to date did not include independent
voltage data from another instrument.
Suggest you check out one of these products:
http://tinyurl.com/2xkmnq
http://tinyurl.com/yume4t
Both are an excellent value and offer a next
order of voltage measurement accuracy for
resolving any differences between Dynon
readings and the behavior of the LV warning
light.
Your bus voltage in cruising flight with
light loads should be on the order of 14.2
to 14.5 volts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on |
Egg. Subaru
If you guys are that far behind, why not abandon the ExpBus? It's not
like there is 1K's of $$ wrapped up in that stuff. If it were worth that
easy, you'd already be flying. It will take you about 2 hours to rip out
and toss the Expbus and replace it with a few ATC's at 1/4 the cost.
There are too many limitations with that device to offset the supposed
benefit of those silly breaker switchy things they use. I thought about
it initially too, but after some due diligence I won't let that thing in
the same room as my 2.5.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel
Injectors on Egg. Subaru
-->
Bob
I add my voice to those (and there are hundreds more out there) who will
be very pleased (and will thank you) if you address this issue USING the
ExpBus. Of course, it will be better if you do both (with and without
the ExpBus).
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronburnett(at)charter.net
> Sent: segunda-feira, 31 de Dezembro de 2007 20:57
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel
> Injectors
on Egg.
> Subaru
>
>
> Bob and all,
> It is true that Jan no longer requires using the EXP BUS but there are
still some of
> us slow pokes who purchased one and are installing it with our H-4
> engines
that
> are not yet flying. I went to Bob's course twice and would love to
> see
his rec. using
> the EXP BUS which in my case, will be installed with their brackets
attached to
> ensure no abnormal stress on componets or switches.
> Ron Burnett
> RV-6A with Eggenfellner H-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "mikef" <mikefapex(at)gmail.com> |
I will second longg's comment about tossing the ExpBus. When I started all things
electrical was pretty clueless. I too thought the ExpBus would be a salvation.
Using Bob's book and reading this list helped a lot. Also talked with local
EAA technical advisors. I came to realize, for my aircraft, the Expbus was
actually very limited.
I have a much more flexible system design, and it is exactly what I want/need.
The ExpBus would have been very limiting in delivering the things I want.
So read up and ask questions, plenty of good folks here to help.
Fly Safe,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155552#155552
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Christensen" <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Noisy Microphone. |
Have you tried a different mic?
I sound like the mic you are using has too much drive if you had to set your
mic gain to 1?
Regards,
Bob C.
On Dec 30, 2007 4:36 AM, Chris Byrne wrote:
> jack.byrne(at)bigpond.com>
>
>
> Thanks to everyone who gave advice.
>
> Results
> I switched antenna's, no joy.
> Checked earths and found a lose earth, no joy
> Adjusted microphone gain on headset, no joy
>
> All the while the transmission on the GNC300XL has been great as has the
> reception on the SL30.
>
> Transmission on the SL30 has been full of background noise and unreadable.
>
> Fixed it.
> The SL30 has its own microphone gain that is easy to adjust. It has a
> range
> of 1 to 256 and is preset at 128.
> To get a good transmission I had to wind it back to 1.
>
> Its fine now.
>
> Chris Byrne
> SYDNEY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
Robert Feldtman wrote:
> Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the compass.
>
Is that true? I am under the impression that it continues to be
necessary to set the DG relative to magnetic north in order to correctly
respond to vectors.
I believe that ATC gives only magnetic heading vectors (though it seems
that it's time to go to true headings). It's an important issue in IFR
ops but still relevant in VFR. Usually it doesn't make much of a
difference but I just did 400 miles in 45knot winds at 8,000 and below
it really did make a difference. (BTW, it was a glorious tailwind!)
Do many of you use the GPS to set your DG? I navigate with by GPS,
follow vectors using my DG, use my compass to set my DG, and constantly
try to discern the meaning of the difference between the two.
Perhaps I can simplify things a bit. Thinking it through, I could
easily keep my DG set to my desired GPS course. But I would then have
to remember to reset it or at least check it when getting vectors. I
usually only get vectors at the beginning and end of flights. But I
guess I've just learned to use my GPS as primary during point to point
navigation and use my DG as primary during vectors and put up with the
difference between the two.
Bill "can't wait to get that 45 knots all the time when I move to an
RV10" Watson
>
>
>
> On 12/28/07, *Tim Olson* > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Another builder asked me to forward this because he's on
> vacation, but wanted to join in the thread:
>
> "But another very important issue regarding magnetism is that the
> steel
> parts in the plane can pick up residual magnetism from permanent
> magnets
> and it can be a real problem to sniff out and get rid of with a
> magnaflux (I think he means degaussing -Tim) tool. I believe a I
> made
> a complete posting regarding this in the RV10-list archive. But even
> the helical steel coil in scat tubing is capable of causing totally
> eronous compass readings. I had this occur when we re-did the
> instrument panel in our glastar. I even avoid using magnetic tip
> tools
> now that I've seen how difficult it can be to solve the residual
> magnetism problem.
>
> -bob newman
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> >
> > So one of the morals to the story is that magnetic base antennas
> > have no place in an airplane. They won't just screw with your
> > nearby compass but can screw with your much more sensitive EFIS
> > magnetometer as well. Any antenna with a magnet should be cut
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
Well, as a data point, I just finished a flight where that would not
have worked at all. The winds were too high, the flight too long, and
the precessing was worse than usual (I think) due to lee wave
conditions. 5b2 to 8nc8 1/2/07.
It occurs to me that like many things in aviation, there are time tested
reasons for the basic procedure. Modifying them should be done with
excess caution.
Can't wait to get to the remote magnetometer.
Bill Watson
Ed wrote:
> You can, in fact, set your DG accurately with a GPS while taxiing.
> Sure it will precess, but by that time you've got a pretty good idea
> if the winds aloft are a factor. Better yet - throw the DG away and
> get an EFIS with a remote magnetometer.
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
>> On 12/29/07, *Dawson-Townsend,Timothy * > > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> bobf wrote:
>>
>> "Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the
>> compass."
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's not get track (what a GPS gives you) confused with heading
>> (what your compass gives you). We've all seen those cross wind
>> days where track and heading differ by 30 degrees. That's the
>> beauty of the EFIS systems that compare magnetic-driven heading
>> (your magnetometer being essentially a compass) to GPS track,
>> then do the math, and tell you the wind magnitude and direction.
>>
>>
>>
>> TDT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>>
>> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>>
>> 617-500-4812 (office)
>>
>>
>> *
>> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> I believe that ATC gives only magnetic heading vectors (though it seems that
it's time to go to
> true headings).
I'll second that. My current job is a contract procedures
development specialist for the FAA and the things we see with
facility Mag Var issues would make most folks cry.
A lot of the facility Mag Vars go back to the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Consider what happens when you have an NDB with a 60s Mag
Var, a nearby VORTAC with a 70s Mag Var, and an ILS with an
80s Mag Var.
ZZV ZANESVILLE VOR/DME Variation: 06W (1990)
TVT TIVERTON VOR/DME Variation: 03W (1965)
Only 32 miles from each other. If you saw how much havoc
changing just one Mag Var causes, which you really can't do
efficiently because of the ripple effect....change one, you'd better
be prepared to change a lot of them. That's why Mag Vars don't
get changed often.
Personally, I'm hoping for the pole reversal........
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Seems like ATC doesn't ever try to "thread the needle" with vectoring
traffic. Usually they get everybody pointed in general directions such
that no sheet metal will be bent. If while watching the scope a few
sweeps they think somebody needs a correction, they issue new vectors as
necessary. As long as the pilots aren't changing reference in midstream,
I don't think it's ever a big issue. I hear on the radio all the time
"N12345 fly heading 245" and then later "N12345 turn 10 degrees right."
And even "N12345 say heading." Another thing is if they have you cruising
on a heading that's crosswind and then issue you a climb instruction, your
ground speed is going to come down (in anything most of us are flying) and
hence the crosswind is going to change your ground track.. I don't think
it's like "Pushing Tin."
Regards,
Matt-
> Robert Feldtman wrote:
>> Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the
>> compass.
>>
> Is that true? I am under the impression that it continues to be
> necessary to set the DG relative to magnetic north in order to correctly
> respond to vectors.
>
> I believe that ATC gives only magnetic heading vectors (though it seems
> that it's time to go to true headings). It's an important issue in IFR
> ops but still relevant in VFR. Usually it doesn't make much of a
> difference but I just did 400 miles in 45knot winds at 8,000 and below
> it really did make a difference. (BTW, it was a glorious tailwind!)
>
> Do many of you use the GPS to set your DG? I navigate with by GPS,
> follow vectors using my DG, use my compass to set my DG, and constantly
> try to discern the meaning of the difference between the two.
>
> Perhaps I can simplify things a bit. Thinking it through, I could
> easily keep my DG set to my desired GPS course. But I would then have
> to remember to reset it or at least check it when getting vectors. I
> usually only get vectors at the beginning and end of flights. But I
> guess I've just learned to use my GPS as primary during point to point
> navigation and use my DG as primary during vectors and put up with the
> difference between the two.
>
> Bill "can't wait to get that 45 knots all the time when I move to an
> RV10" Watson
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/28/07, *Tim Olson* > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> Another builder asked me to forward this because he's on
>> vacation, but wanted to join in the thread:
>>
>> "But another very important issue regarding magnetism is that the
>> steel
>> parts in the plane can pick up residual magnetism from permanent
>> magnets
>> and it can be a real problem to sniff out and get rid of with a
>> magnaflux (I think he means degaussing -Tim) tool. I believe a I
>> made
>> a complete posting regarding this in the RV10-list archive. But
>> even
>> the helical steel coil in scat tubing is capable of causing totally
>> eronous compass readings. I had this occur when we re-did the
>> instrument panel in our glastar. I even avoid using magnetic tip
>> tools
>> now that I've seen how difficult it can be to solve the residual
>> magnetism problem.
>>
>> -bob newman
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So one of the morals to the story is that magnetic base antennas
>> > have no place in an airplane. They won't just screw with your
>> > nearby compass but can screw with your much more sensitive EFIS
>> > magnetometer as well. Any antenna with a magnet should be cut
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on Egg. |
Subaru
| From: | "marcausman" <marc(at)verticalpower.com> |
We recently updated our Subaru wiring diagrams to support the latest Subaru engine
and wiring recommendations from Jan. The Vertical Power VP-100 and VP-200
can both be used with the Subaru engine. The VP-200 switch panel is now available
in a special version that replaces the mag switch with an aux battery switch.
Also, we are now developing the engine gauges specific to the Subaru engine.
More info here (at bottom of page): http://www.verticalpower.com/documents.html
and in this thread: http://www.verticalpower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21
--------
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com
RV-7 IO-390 Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155686#155686
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
Hmmm, it never occurred to me to setup the GPS for true instead of
magnetic. I can see how it would be confusing. Every moving map GPS I've
ever played with has some sort of setup page where you can decide
between true and magnetic as well as North up or track up. My preference
is magnetic and track up.
It has been quite a while since I last drew a line on a chart, used a
plotter to find the true course and then converted it to magnetic using
the local variation. I tend to use a flight planning program which gives
my course bearing in magnetic, figures the time enroute and fuel burn
and even takes into account winds aloft at my planned altitude. Even
then, I just enter the destination in the GPS and go direct most of the
time. If the track and the direct to numbers are the same, my heading is
correct no matter what the DG or compass may say. As long as the ETE +
45 minutes and the time remaining on the fuel totalizer jibe, it's all
going to be OK.
When ATC issues a vector, I turn to it on the EIFS (DG to those who have
'em). It usually isn't that different from the GPS track, but I can see
how it might be off a ways if there are strong crosswinds (or lots of
precession). ATC really doesn't care a whole bunch about what your
actual heading is. They can't tell anyway. When they tell you to fly a
heading, they are looking for a resultant radar track. If that track is
not what they want from you, they'll ask for another 10 or 15 degrees of
heading change from you. The whole concept of flying headings came from
a time when you had no realtime way of knowing what your track was, but
track is what we are always trying to accomplish. Knowing the difference
between actual track and heading tells use what the winds are doing, but
staying on course is all about track. Heading is still the language that
ATC is required to use, but they'd probably be happier dealing with
track since that is what they display. I have often heard ATC ask folks
what their "heading" would be to such and such destination, and you can
bet that the pilots look at the direct to bearing on the GPS for the
answer. Armed with that, the controller knows, with some degree of
confidence, what the radar track will be and whether it will conflict
with other traffic.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
MauleDriver wrote:
> Robert Feldtman wrote:
>
>> Secondly - most of us use our GPS to set our DG anyway - not the compass.
>>
>
> Is that true? I am under the impression that it continues to be
> necessary to set the DG relative to magnetic north in order to
> correctly respond to vectors.
>
> I believe that ATC gives only magnetic heading vectors (though it
> seems that it's time to go to true headings). It's an important issue
> in IFR ops but still relevant in VFR. Usually it doesn't make much of
> a difference but I just did 400 miles in 45knot winds at 8,000 and
> below it really did make a difference. (BTW, it was a glorious tailwind!)
>
> Do many of you use the GPS to set your DG? I navigate with by GPS,
> follow vectors using my DG, use my compass to set my DG, and
> constantly try to discern the meaning of the difference between the two.
>
> Perhaps I can simplify things a bit. Thinking it through, I could
> easily keep my DG set to my desired GPS course. But I would then have
> to remember to reset it or at least check it when getting vectors. I
> usually only get vectors at the beginning and end of flights. But I
> guess I've just learned to use my GPS as primary during point to point
> navigation and use my DG as primary during vectors and put up with the
> difference between the two.
>
> Bill "can't wait to get that 45 knots all the time when I move to an
> RV10" Watson
>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MauleDriver <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
Jim Baker wrote:
>> I believe that ATC gives only magnetic heading vectors (though it seems that
it's time to go to
>> true headings).
>>
>> I'll second that. My current job is a contract procedures
>> development specialist for the FAA and the things we see with
>> facility Mag Var issues would make most folks cry.
>>
>> A lot of the facility Mag Vars go back to the 60s, 70s and 80s.
>> Consider what happens when you have an NDB with a 60s Mag
>> Var, a nearby VORTAC with a 70s Mag Var, and an ILS with an
>> 80s Mag Var.
>>
>> ZZV ZANESVILLE VOR/DME Variation: 06W (1990)
>> TVT TIVERTON VOR/DME Variation: 03W (1965)
>>
>> Only 32 miles from each other. If you saw how much havoc
>> changing just one Mag Var causes, which you really can't do
>> efficiently because of the ripple effect....change one, you'd better
>> be prepared to change a lot of them. That's why Mag Vars don't
>> get changed often.
>>
>> Personally, I'm hoping for the pole reversal........
>>
Accommodating the legacy of past technologies is like having a 2 ton
stone around one's neck! Arrrrghhhh! I can't even imagine. On one
hand we all want to move ahead as fast as possible, on the other, none
of us want any piece of equipment we use to become obsolete. The whole
VOR infrastructure is down there but I haven't tuned one in since my
last training exercise. And in 7 or 8 years of instrument flight, I've
never been asked to intercept a radial (even a hold). They are handy
waypoints though.
When is the next pole reversal predicted? I guess I'm dead then huh?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Christian <edchristian(at)knology.net> |
I would like to use a start button on the Z-11 diagram with regular
mags but have the option to convert to P-Mags later. Can someone
explain how to or point me to a reference.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
Not quite sure what question your asking Ed?
The push button is easy it just takes the +12V wire form the start contactor and
grounds it when the button is pushed, thus pulls in the contactor.
A to wiring the mags I would not put in a key swtich to control both mags...I mean
if you do that you have a single point of failure controlling both ignitions.
Granted it is unlikely to fail because you have to ground the P leads to shut
them off, but even so a separate switch to control each P lead is desirable.
The to start you simply turn on both P leads (unground them) and hit the start
button.
The nice thing about the P mags is they are wired the same way...I.e have a terminal
that connects directly to the P lead you will have already installed.
The only extra things you will need in moved to a P mag from an existing mag is
a +12V supply for each Pmag and a good ground (don't rely on the case). Make
sure the +12V lines come from a separate circuit...I.e one fuse for each. If you
have two batteries or two alternators, one feed should come from the main bus
and the other should come from the essntial bus.
Hope that helps
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Christian
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:02 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Push to Start
-->
I would like to use a start button on the Z-11 diagram with regular mags but have
the option to convert to P-Mags later. Can someone explain how to or point
me to a reference.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
Hey,
I don't understand why the title is distinct to Experimental
aircraft. The compass requirement is the same for any device that moves in a
medium if true motion is to be understood. This includes river current,
tidal motion and other media.
Navigating "by DG" is only valid when the directional gyro is
regularly readjusted to the valid magnetic heading* _ (that's why you start
out by setting it on the runway for take-off - no need for GPS). There is no
need to duplicate the EFIS reading on another display, so it's really only
for Heading. It precesses, that's why it needs to be adjusted every ten
minutes or so - depending on ground speed. *If you were to fly in the Arctic
areas, it might be set to GRID north settings, but that's another story.
Taking "Mag var" - may we presume 'magnetic variation'? - from
anything but the CURRENT chart for same is tantamount to searching in 1880
for clues to Kennedy's assassin. That's why the rate of change of magnetic
variation is published - so one may calculate the present Variation. EFIS
changes nothing of import.
What is has to do with 'Experimental' beats me.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
PS: On this topic, and ATC vectoring, Matt Prather (q.v.) has it down pat -
dead on.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powering the Ignition and Fuel Injectors on |
Egg. Subaru
I think you are confusing the ExpBus with Greg Richter's Aircraft Power
Board. Check the AeroElectric list archives for Greg's "Aircraft Wiring for
Smart People".
Terry
RV-8A, BMA/EFIS-one, wiring
Carlos,
Pardon me for butting in here, but...
The ExpBus is a "canned" product designed by Greg Richter to be used
according to Mr Richter's design principles as outlined in Mr Richter's
book, "Wiring for Smart People". I heard Mr Richter speak at OSH in '05 and
read his "book". I liked it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: EXP-Bus, et. als. |
>
>
>Carlos,
>
>Pardon me for butting in here, but...
>
>The ExpBus is a "canned" product designed by Greg Richter to be used
>according to Mr Richter's design principles as outlined in Mr Richter's
>book, "Wiring for Smart People". I heard Mr Richter speak at OSH in '05 and
>read his "book". I liked it. Perhaps you should ask Mr Richter to expound on
>the proper care and feeding of the ExpBus and how it interacts with your
>engine's systems. That would make sense, wouldn't it? After all, it's his
>system, isn't it? If you go to the Blue Mountain Avionics site there's a
>discussion board there and I'm sure Greg will be happy to answer all your
>questions. Alternatively, if your engine designer, (Mr Eggenfellner ?)
>recommends this product, perhaps he could explain his choice and how to
>integrate it into his design principles.
Greg has his own version of the what-you-see-is-what-you-get electrical
system which he proposed in his publication "Aircraft Wiring for Smart
People" late in 2004. I attempted to engage Greg in a discussion of
the design goals and simple ideas that supported his recommendations
but he refused to participate in a friendly critical design review
of either his practical advice, science or philosophy of system
design. This exchange can be reviewed by interested readers at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html
EXP-Bus pre-dates Gregg's efforts by several years. In
1999 I posted this series of exchanges on the EXP-Bus
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusad.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/expbusthd.html
The EXP-Bus was discussed comparatively with
Gregg's one-size-fits-all proposal in this
discussion about the philosophies and design
goals offered in the 'Connection:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/What's_the_AeroElectric-List_About.pdf
There may be several additional offerings in the
wild in addition to the EXP-Bus and Gregg's proposed
product. There's a pre-fab assembly popular with
the large canard-pusher folks and offered out of
Florida as I recall. I don't remember the name
of that product. There may be others.
>It seems to this humble poster that Bob has more than enough to do just
>teaching us his time tested design philosophies and how to implement them in
>our OBAM aircraft.
There's nothing inherently "bad" about any of
these products as long as the laws of physics are
observed and as long as consumers of the products
are personally satisfied with the utility and
performance of their purchase.
My objection to such products is that for the same
investment of $time$ needed to purchase the product,
on can custom assemble a system tailored exactly
to the builder's needs and have money left over.
Further, one's "home grown" system is crafted from
parts wherein the builder knows exactly where to
get spares for future repairs and/or expansion.
WYSIWYG electrical system products lock you into the
choices and sources chosen for you by the designer
of that product.
It's important that folks understand personal
goals for my efforts are driven by a long cultivated
professional quest for the elegant solution. Solutions
that strive for minimum parts count, low cost of
ownership and failure tolerance. These goals are
often and easily satisfied without detailed regard
as to what parts are used or how much they cost.
As soon as one selects a WYSIWYG product, then
part of the $time$ expended goes toward the
substitution of a third party's ideas and $time$
for that of your own. If it works for you, fine
by me. But understand that my reluctance to spend
$time$ doing critical design review and/or system
integration studies for such products would amount
to a tacit recommendation of these products . . . a
position I've avoided for reasons cited.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Starter push button?? |
Start
I would like to use a start button on the Z-11 diagram with regular
mags but have the option to convert to P-Mags later. Can someone
explain how to or point me to a reference.
Features in the Z-figures can be mixed/matched for
builder convenience. Alternative architectures for
ignition/starter control are illustrated in Z-13/8,
Z-20, Z-21, Z-27, and Z-28.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring |
Dear Doctor Dunham
I really don't have anything against you "butting in here", but if it was to
prevent 'lectric Bob from helping ALL AeroElectric listers, regardless of
the system they chose to use in their OBAM aircraft, I am happy to see that
Bob didn't fulfil your desire.
I was not seeking any advice about the ExpBus itself, so there is no need to
ask Mr. Richter anything at all. Nor do I need or want to trigger any
discussion at all about the advantages or disadvantages of the ExpBus,
therefore it doesn't make ANY sense to contact anybody related to the
ExpBus. And please don't engage in an ExpBus thread... That's not my
intention!
Regarding Jan Eggenfellner, who is a nice and decent guy, producing a good
alternative engine to our OBAM aircraft (please don't initiate any Lycoming
/ alternative engines discussion also), he no longer recommends the ExpBus,
therefore it doesn't make any sense as well to discuss this issue with him.
So, dear Rodney, don't take me wrong. If you have anything against the
ExpBus, and/or Mr. Greg Richter (who I didn't know till today was the person
behind the ExpBus), please leave that anger out of this, and don't be mad at
me or Bob, if he wants to help us, Eggen-Subaru homebuilders with an ExpBus,
to reach a better way of wiring our fuel pumps and ignition crucial
circuits.
No hard feelings
Carlos Trigo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring |
>
>
>Dear Doctor Dunham
>
>I really don't have anything against you "butting in here", but if it was to
>prevent 'lectric Bob from helping ALL AeroElectric listers, regardless of
>the system they chose to use in their OBAM aircraft, I am happy to see that
>Bob didn't fulfil your desire.
> . . . please leave that anger out of this, and don't be mad at
>me or Bob, if he wants to help us, Eggen-Subaru homebuilders with an ExpBus,
>to reach a better way of wiring our fuel pumps and ignition crucial
>circuits.
Carlos, I think you were reading more into
Rodney's words than was there. Obviously,
there's some miscommunication as to who is
promoting which products. Misunderstandings
aside, I thought that Eggenfellner had already
published suggested system architecture drawings
that utilized the EXP-Bus.
Did you have any specific questions about
Eggenfellner's proposed installation for which
I or another List reader can be helpful?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Misunderstandings
> aside, I thought that Eggenfellner had already
> published suggested system architecture drawings
> that utilized the EXP-Bus.
Hi Bob,
Eggenfellner is no longer recommending the use of the EXP-bus for
their installations.
>
> Did you have any specific questions about
> Eggenfellner's proposed installation for which
> I or another List reader can be helpful?
>
I (and I think a lot of others) are hoping to see a recommended
architecture from you that addresses the needs of the Eggenfellner
engine package, likely resembling some variant of Z-19 with the rear
dual batteries (Z-19/RB I think you called it).
Here is a direct link to the current Eggenfellner installation manual, with the
electrical section starting on page 45 with their suggested requirements:
http://eggenfellneraircraft.com/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf
<http://eggenfellneraircraft.com/ESeriesInstallationGuide.pdf>
Although I am sure the architecture that Eggenfellner has in this document will
work, I like your design philosophies and would really like to see what you
would recommend for a system, if you have the time to do so at some point.
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ectric-List:Engine GND |
Ok so here is the set up...RV7A.....SD-8 on the Vac pad....FWF Ground block
just right of upper center on the firewall.
I have a clear run for the engine GND from the port side upper bolt on the
SD-8 to the FWF ground block. Is this acceptable and will it produce a good
engine GND.
Fran @ SGU....RV7A.....finishing up the last zillion items before RV grin T
ime
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> |
| Subject: | ectric-List:Engine GND |
Hey thats what I did and I made it from Corvallis to St George and back....
:)
Yup that will work just fine. Use #2 welding cable for the ultimate in flex
ibility.
Frank1
RV7a 245 hours
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stringham
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:Engine GND
Ok so here is the set up...RV7A.....SD-8 on the Vac pad....FWF Ground block
just right of upper center on the firewall.
I have a clear run for the engine GND from the port side upper bolt on the
SD-8 to the FWF ground block. Is this acceptable and will it produce a good
engine GND.
Fran @ SGU....RV7A.....finishing up the last zillion items before RV grin T
ime
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> As long as the pilots aren't changing reference in midstream,
> I don't think it's ever a big issue. I hear on the radio all the time
> "N12345 fly heading 245" and then later "N12345 turn 10 degrees right."
> And even "N12345 say heading."
Now, from a previous life as an air traffic controller...tower and
radar/RAPCON/GCA......
We almost never knew what your heading was and mostly didn't
care unless it was vectors to an ASR approach or, possibly, a
PAR, or alternatively, an initial heading to fly on a departure or
vectors to final. Usually we just gave you a heading and
generally were in the ballpark. Other than that it was all relative
motion in relation to the any other aircraft's track. I think the
newer ARTS Radar track/tag systems have quick call-up
heading and predictive course extension....or perhaps that was
just something I'd read from a NASA paper. Anyway, during my
time, the only way to know what your heading was is to have
asked for it.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lincoln Keill <airlincoln(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find
the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology
before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with
one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the
ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V
battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would
suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need
to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which
is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely
use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or
a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use
14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should
be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system
(wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts,
silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low
voltage module, etc. etc.)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike humphrey" <mike109g6(at)insideconnect.net> |
B&C, Terminal Town, Steinair, are all excellent suppliers of all the
'goodies" that you will need and tools. Aircraftspruce, Autozone, NAPA,
Advance, and EBay, should not be counted out. You know the old saying,
'shop till you drop before you drop the bucks'. Got 1000ft roll of new
22awg unshielded on Ebay for $16 per Bob's advice. On your lights, math
sounds good, but my manufacturer(sold by Van's) states that 16awg is
more than enough for 100w halogens. Still went with the 14awg-already
had it on hand.
Mike H
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Keill
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:18 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been
able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back
me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring
diagram incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip
controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15
feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case
(alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so
initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we
want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15
foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V
drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A
fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a
premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could
use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The
switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario)
rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for
Your Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a
Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors,
fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar
overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
LK,
You could probably source all that stuff at http://www.bandc.biz/ Click on
the yellow link "products".
I'm looking at the wiring chart sample that comes with my preview plans. It
indicates 14 awg would be the size to go with. This will also allow you to
fit 100watt bulbs in the future. Separately fused at 10 amps.
Just my .02 cents worth. I'm sure the experts will chime in, in the
morning.
Bevan
Rv7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> |
| Subject: | switch rating question |
If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
Bevan
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft |
(updated)
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Jim, the absence of heading information for ATC makes sense. Approaching Knoxville,
TN (TYS), they'll often give me a heading that I'm already on. If they can't
predict my track, at least if they give me a heading they know where I'm
supposed to be going...helps keep paint transfers to a minimum. ATC's equipment
is so "60s.....".
Chuck Jensen
Now, from a previous life as an air traffic controller...tower and
radar/RAPCON/GCA......
We almost never knew what your heading was and mostly didn't
care unless it was vectors to an ASR approach or, possibly, a
PAR, or alternatively, an initial heading to fly on a departure or
vectors to final. Usually we just gave you a heading and
generally were in the ballpark. Other than that it was all relative
motion in relation to the any other aircraft's track. I think the
newer ARTS Radar track/tag systems have quick call-up
heading and predictive course extension....or perhaps that was
just something I'd read from a NASA paper. Anyway, during my
time, the only way to know what your heading was is to have
asked for it.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Heffley <list(at)toddheffley.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Labeling |
I use "Datak" dry transfers.
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p52.htm shows an example
This is a very frustrating project if the panel is mounted in the airplane.
Not too bad if it is on the bench.
Matte Datakote over the entire panel.
This produces a product just as nice as silk screen. Costs little.
Star with a sample panel, test your process and the chemicals first.
Good Luck
todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | switch rating question |
Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A.
Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you
will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually
the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!)
Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine!
r.t.s.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question
If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total,
7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole
2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing
lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses?
Bevan
RV7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
You are likely to replace hot high current lamps with cool, low current LED
lamps in the future.
That technology is moving quite fast and the inverse price/intensity ratio
is getting better all the time.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:53 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
LK,
You could probably source all that stuff at http://www.bandc.biz/ Click on
the yellow link "products".
I'm looking at the wiring chart sample that comes with my preview plans. It
indicates 14 awg would be the size to go with. This will also allow you to
fit 100watt bulbs in the future. Separately fused at 10 amps.
Just my .02 cents worth. I'm sure the experts will chime in, in the
morning.
Bevan
Rv7A wiring
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln
Keill
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire
I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to
find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my
methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram
incorrectly?
As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled
with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including
the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out
with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20
AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop
below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times
6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can
handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry
about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the
lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A
fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or
a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A.
Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your
Support!"
Lincoln Keill
Sacramento, CA
RV-7A
P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11
system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse
links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage
protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring |
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> > Misunderstandings
> > aside, I thought that Eggenfellner had already
> > published suggested system architecture drawings
> > that utilized the EXP-Bus.
>
>Hi Bob,
> Eggenfellner is no longer recommending the use of the EXP-bus for
>their installations.
>
> >
> > Did you have any specific questions about
> > Eggenfellner's proposed installation for which
> > I or another List reader can be helpful?
> >
>
> I (and I think a lot of others) are hoping to see a recommended
>architecture from you that addresses the needs of the Eggenfellner
>engine package, likely resembling some variant of Z-19 with the rear
>dual batteries (Z-19/RB I think you called it).
And that's the drawing I'm working on as noted last
week sometime . . .
Bob. . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba(at)icosa.net> |
| Subject: | Tap into antenna coax? |
Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the
commtap
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
W. Skiba
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax?
December 19, 2007 - January 04, 2008
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-hm