AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jd
November 20, 2009 - December 08, 2009
http://forums.matronics.com//files/switch_gang_200.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a SPST, I thought
I could increase switch reliability by putting in 2-3 instead of 1-3 switches.
The pic shows one for a magneto lead. I separated the shield and put blue
heatshrink on the braid and covered the junction with a piece of clear heatshrink.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274018#274018
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/shielded_mag_wire_to_2_3_switch_191.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Last week I crimped connections betwen my regulator and alternator relay. The Jabiru
regulator comes with a harness or whatever you call the plastic thing with
6 male faston blades inside. Besides being a bit cramped in there, one of the
blades is a bit loose. I think it just got pushed or pulled out of its socket,
since I can't budge the female-male faston connection. For this reason I'm
thinking of cutting off the plastic harness (and tabs, if needed) to free up
the individual wires.
I also realize the fastons to the relay aren't in all the way. And it needs a diode.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274020#274020
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/regulator_fastons_118.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Hi Dan,
Nice pictures. It looks like you are doing a good wiring job. You said that you
had a few questions but I did not see any. Thanks for pointing out the location
of the security switch. I always wanted a Sonex. :-) Actually I am building
a RV-12. Keep up the good work.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274074#274074
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 05:32 PM 11/20/2009, you wrote:
>
>Since a DPDT switch is the same size and almost the same price as a
>SPST, I thought I could increase switch reliability by putting in
>2-3 instead of 1-3 switches.
But if one half of the switch fails, how will you
know it? Don't confuse reliability with longevity.
Reliability for your flight system (of which YOU
are a component) is achieved by a combination of
understanding, skill, failure tolerant design
and preventative maintenance that takes up the
slack for issues of longevity/service-life.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Dan,
I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.html
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Dan - your pictures and wiring look great, congrats!
It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated faston
terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
dave
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com>
>
>
> Dan,
I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it will be
necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you could
eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires
could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like
this:http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.
> html
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274077#274077
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
With a Double Pole switch wired in parallel, one will not know when one half fails
because the circuit will still operate with only half of the switch working.
If at some point the second half of the switch fails, then the pilot will
not be any worse off then if a single-pole switch had failed. Theoretically a
DP switch wired in parallel will last longer than a SP switch because each half
only carries half of the current. As corrosion forms, the resistance of contacts
in parallel will be half. Has anyone, perhaps a switch manufacturer, done
experiments to determine the longevity of a DP switch wired in parallel compared
to a SP switch? It is easier to install a longer-lived switch during panel
build while the circuit is fresh in mind, and while the components are easily
accessible. Is it worth the extra cost and weight and time to install a
double pole switch in an attempt to delay future trouble shooting and difficult
replacing of switches?
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274083#274083
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Good points, Bob and Joe.
Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire bundle going from
the firewall to the channel behind the instrument panel. Many have used the
zip tie bases and simply glued them on. But I would like to see if I could do
without glue that might let loose sometime in the future, especially in such
a hard to reach place.
>From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12". This fitting
is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would use the same zip tie anchors
but fasten them with SS rivets through the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with
zip ties also spaced between the anchors.
Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to support the anchors
or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the pic. There would only be 3 or
4 inches between the anchors. After the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom
of the cover for the buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself,
since there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the underside
of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then the bundle would
go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.
I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I think that
may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box, I could simply rivet
angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the longeron to the panel tray. I could
use either zip tie bases riveted to these clips, or use Adel clamps.
How does this sound?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274085#274085
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_bundling_side_873.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of the insulated
faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only. Then when
I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic could have been
poked through. To be safe, I figured I'd best put on heatshrink, which could
also be extended to cover the whole terminal. In some areas it also helps as a
strain relief. Other areas I actually had to cutoff some of the heatshrink because
this prevented it from bending as tight as I needed, like behind the switches.
And putting on the heatshrink is pretty fast and fun, too!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274086#274086
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Brian Carpenter from Rainbow Aviation, an A&P who teaches the E-LSA course, taught
our class that wire ties should not be used to support wires. Their purpose
is only to keep wires in a neat bundle. Adel clamps or other means should
be used for support. At work in an industrial environment, I have seen many of
those sticky wire-tie bases fall off after a period of time.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274091#274091
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> wire ties should not be used to support wires
Seems to me a zip tie fastened to a tie base could fail where the base attaches
to the structure, the two little plastic rods of the base where the tie slips
under, or the zip tie itself. I think doing what I did in the pic below remedies
the base to structure problem. I just bent a piece of 025 and riveted through
the hole in the middle of the base. That's not gonna come off. In this particular
shot, I made the angle clip 2.5" to the rivet. I could shorten that to
1", but 2.5" gives it more room between the clip and tank, since the sides of
the tank angle down and toward the center. So if I had to service this item,
it wouldn't be too hard...as long as I could still do a Fosbury Flop under the
tank!
So the question is, could the zip tie or little base rod break? If so, I'd opt
for the metal clamp. I suppose I'd still want the angle clip to give me clearance.
Just replace the plastic base and tie with an Adel clamp.... and pray I don't
ever have to mess with the dang screws later!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274097#274097
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/longeron_bundle_angle_clip_107.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 10:31 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>Good points, Bob and Joe.
>
>Another issue is what route to take and how to fasten the wire
>bundle going from the firewall to the channel behind the instrument
>panel. Many have used the zip tie bases and simply glued them on.
>But I would like to see if I could do without glue that might let
>loose sometime in the future, especially in such a hard to reach place.
There ARE bond-studs that can be used to attach non-structural
components to the airframe without drilling holes.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Bond_Studs.pdf
There are aerospace grade, fast-setting bond studs
too . . . but you don't even want to know what they
cost.
> >From my firewall bulkhead fitting to the side panel is about 12".
> This fitting is just out of view on the left of the pic. I would
> use the same zip tie anchors but fasten them with SS rivets through
> the firewall. 2 or 3 should do with zip ties also spaced between the anchors.
Tie-straps and their companion stick-on/screw-on
bases are problematic. Likelihood of finding stuff
in your local hardware store suited to your task
is low.
>Then, instead of the side panel, I could use the 1/8" angle to
>support the anchors or clamps shown in the first 3 arrows in the
>pic. There would only be 3 or 4 inches between the anchors. After
>the upright angle I could go 8" to the bottom of the cover for the
>buss box, or follow the fat wire through the box itself, since
>there'd be room . The buss box cover will be fastened to the
>underside of the glare shield 2 or 3 inches behind the tank. Then
>the bundle would go another 4" and drop into the instrument panel tray.
>
>I had shied away from using the upper longeron as support, but now I
>think that may be a better route. Instead of going to the buss box,
>I could simply rivet angle clips every 3 or 4 inches along the
>longeron to the panel tray. I could use either zip tie bases riveted
>to these clips, or use Adel clamps.
Adel (or MS21919DG series) clamps are almost NEVER a poor
choice. All metallic fastening is also almost NEVER a poor
choice. Any process involving plastics or stick-ums can
be a good choice but stick with proven recipes for success
for both ingredients and process.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of
> the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
>
>
>The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated
>only. Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the
>plastic could have been poked through.
???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
compromised???
You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility
issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Hi Guys
What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?
Regards: John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dan's Switches
>
>
> At 10:44 AM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> > It looks like you are putting black heatshrink tubing on top of
>> the insulated faston terminals. Is that for additional strain relief?
>>
>>
>>The AMP PIDG terminals I got have the non-terminal end insulated only.
>>Then when I first started crimping, it looked like some of the plastic
>>could have been poked through.
>
> ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> compromised???
>
> You may have a crimper vs. terminal compatibility
> issue. The tool should NOT damage the terminal.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> compromised???
The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the outer preinsulation.
I thought I was getting a decent device when I bought the Crimpmaster.
I found that terminals don't fit well in it, both in the direction of the wire
and in the direction of the handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave
up. I have done almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull
tested enough to know when it's good.
Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a couple jpg
links that were broken.
And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a nylon P clamp.
They're okay to use?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274138#274138
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 03:41 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Guys
>
>What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?
Heat . . .
Seriously, it depends on your situation. I've had $150 heat
guns than put concentrated heat into tiny spaces. They're
quite useful when working inside some piece of electronics.
95% of the time, a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight does the
job. ANY heatgun can supply MORE heat than you need. Get
used to the specific combination of shrink, situation and
tools before you dive into finished work.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> |
While flying yesterday, I noticed I lost side tone when transmitting on
my Bendix King 97A.
I bought it new in 1990, I believe, and have had little trouble with it.
Any suggestions on what to fix, who can fix, worth fixing???
Thanks, Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Choices, choices . . . |
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com>
Quote:
Dan,
I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless
it will be
necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the
regulator, you could
eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator wires
could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like
this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.
Not a bad idea. Given that the rectifier/regulator assembly comes
with a connector for which you have no mate, it's a good thing
to minimize the number of connections and/or work-arounds. The
idea of making semi-permanent splices in wires in TC aircraft
by soldering would get the designer a boat-load of tomatoes
and cabbages from all quarters.
Of course, the "prudent system integrator" of a Jabiru rectifier-
regulator would go get a mating connector or special order regulators
fitted with a connector of choice. Shucks, we could turn a $25 part
into a $250 part in a heart-beat.
But this is YOUR airplane where design goals no doubt include
lowest practical cost of ownership . . . which also carries
the option of doing a "little extra work" at such time the
regulator needs replacing.
My grab-it-and-run toolbox left over from Hawker-Beechcraft
days includes a gas-powered soldering iron that not only
lets me get a solder joint made up before the next guy
can get his choice of tools from the crib . . . but it will
shrink tubing too.
It's process sensitive. You need to learn how to do some
things that probably scares the TC production line worker.
For low parts count, high joint integrity and personally
acceptable cost of ownership, the lowly soldering iron offers
a unique potential recipe for success.
I was unpacking stuff in my collection of antique electronics
last week. I've had it in storage for about 15 years. At
the bottom of one box was a billy-club sized soldering
iron that was forwarded to me by my sisters when they were
helping Aunt Dorothy and Uncle Bill move into the nursing
home 20 years ago.
It was the first plug-in-the-wall soldering iron I ever
had access to. Uncle bill showed me how it worked when I
was 9 years old. A couple months later, my own first iron
was a plumber's copper that had to be heated up on the stove.
I still marvel at the idea that my folks didn't bat an
eye when I plunked that beast down on the kitchen stove
and came back a few minutes later to retrieve it. I'd
run to my workbench in the utility room and solder up
a joint or two. How many families would have the vision
and patience to offer their children those kinds of
opportunities today?
When my grandson comes to visit for a few weeks next
summer I think we'll plug the billy-club in. He's
already put his hands on my Metcal hi-performance solder
station. We'll dig out about a half dozen more soldering
tools I have laying around. We'll splice some wires, build
some boxes from copper clad and maybe solder some
pipes too.
That ancient technology is still pretty neat stuff . . .
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Choices, choices . . . |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, I can tell you love being a grand-dad as much as I will - when the
little critter gets to be more than his present 3 months old. Can't wait to
melt some solder with him, and give him his first plane ride!
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com>
> Quote:
>
>
> Dan,
>
> I do have one suggestion about the regulator_fastons_118.jpg. Unless it
> will be
>
> necessary to periodically disconnect the cable going to the regulator, you
> could
> eliminate that plastic connector and the fastons. One of the regulator
> wires
> could go directly to the relay. The other wires could be butt spliced like
> this:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_Solder_Sleeve/PM_Solder_Sleeve.
>
>
> Not a bad idea. Given that the rectifier/regulator assembly comes
> with a connector for which you have no mate, it's a good thing
> to minimize the number of connections and/or work-arounds. The
> idea of making semi-permanent splices in wires in TC aircraft
> by soldering would get the designer a boat-load of tomatoes
> and cabbages from all quarters.
>
> Of course, the "prudent system integrator" of a Jabiru rectifier-
> regulator would go get a mating connector or special order regulators
> fitted with a connector of choice. Shucks, we could turn a $25 part
> into a $250 part in a heart-beat.
>
> But this is YOUR airplane where design goals no doubt include
> lowest practical cost of ownership . . . which also carries
> the option of doing a "little extra work" at such time the
> regulator needs replacing.
>
> My grab-it-and-run toolbox left over from Hawker-Beechcraft
> days includes a gas-powered soldering iron that not only
> lets me get a solder joint made up before the next guy
> can get his choice of tools from the crib . . . but it will
> shrink tubing too.
>
> It's process sensitive. You need to learn how to do some
> things that probably scares the TC production line worker.
> For low parts count, high joint integrity and personally
> acceptable cost of ownership, the lowly soldering iron offers
> a unique potential recipe for success.
>
> I was unpacking stuff in my collection of antique electronics
> last week. I've had it in storage for about 15 years. At
> the bottom of one box was a billy-club sized soldering
> iron that was forwarded to me by my sisters when they were
> helping Aunt Dorothy and Uncle Bill move into the nursing
> home 20 years ago.
>
> It was the first plug-in-the-wall soldering iron I ever
> had access to. Uncle bill showed me how it worked when I
> was 9 years old. A couple months later, my own first iron
> was a plumber's copper that had to be heated up on the stove.
>
> I still marvel at the idea that my folks didn't bat an
> eye when I plunked that beast down on the kitchen stove
> and came back a few minutes later to retrieve it. I'd
> run to my workbench in the utility room and solder up
> a joint or two. How many families would have the vision
> and patience to offer their children those kinds of
> opportunities today?
>
> When my grandson comes to visit for a few weeks next
> summer I think we'll plug the billy-club in. He's
> already put his hands on my Metcal hi-performance solder
> station. We'll dig out about a half dozen more soldering
> tools I have laying around. We'll splice some wires, build
> some boxes from copper clad and maybe solder some
> pipes too.
>
> That ancient technology is still pretty neat stuff . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nuckollsr
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Preferred Method for Redundant Power Sources
to Single Input
Bob: Check out isispower. I would appreciate your comments.
Gordon Comfort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 07:19 AM 11/23/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob: Check out isispower. I would appreciate your comments.
>
>Gordon Comfort
Hi Gordon! Good to hear from you. I've had several folks
send me the link on this line of product. Thanks to all
for the heads-up.
Let's consider the words and images used to induce
customers to purchase this product . . .
http://www.isispower.com/V8_interview.php
There's also a library of installation and
user's manuals at:
http://www.isispower.com/isis-installation.html
I didn't go through these in detail but at no
time did I see any sort of block diagram or
all-up wiring diagram that describes an exemplar
installation. But questions to be asked and
answered:
(a) does the proposed system reduce numbers of
switches or controls on panel along with wiring
and real estate allotted to those components?
(b) how many devices in your proposed airplane
project require you to switch a current level
that places the switch at risk for extra-ordinary
rates of failure. Careful here . . . don't mix
service life (expected wear out) with reliability
(failure due to poor design or choice of component).
(c) how many devices or systems in the airplane
cannot be handled by this product? This includes
things like legacy magnetos, audio switches, etc.
(d) how does inclusion of this product in your
airplane change your failure modes effects analysis
for the purpose of crafting Plan-A/Plan-B responses
to failure of any one system?
(e) how does inclusion of this product affect
probability of single points of failure for
multiple systems?
(f) does your comfortable incorporation of this
or any similar system depend on some notion of
super-reliability or exemplar service life. I.e,
"THIS gizmo is NEVER going to malfunction".
(g) some lengths of wire between control switches and
controlled devices are replaced by data bus
conductors between "smart modules". What is the
weight savings for these conductors as compared
to the weight of the proposed "smart modules"?
(h) when and if problems do happen, what is the
likelihood that YOU as a system integrator will
be tooled and skilled in fixing the problem . . .
or will you be dependent upon outside support
or canned diagnostics?
(i) how does incorporation of this product make
your installation task any simpler than running
a conductor path from fuse to switch to accessory?
If your design goals include buffering stresses
on the switch by inclusion of a power relay, how
much $time$ is expended in the installation of
the relay, one extra wire and allocation of one
extra fuse to the task?
(j) you still have to run SOME gage and length of
wire from each control device to a smart module
at the head-end. You still have to run the SAME
gage of wire to each accessory from the smart
module at the tail-end. If you have only one tail-end
smart module where actual power handling takes
place, is this not about the same situation as
the fabrication of a breaker panel or array of
fuse blocks?
(k) think hard about this "weight reduction"
thing. If you're using fuse blocks and the SAME
or perhaps slightly smaller switches. What is
the likelihood that the combination of smart
modules comes out lighter than the sum total
of wire weight eliminated?
(l) finally, assuming consideration of all the
above produces conclusions consistent with your
design goals. Suppose you spend under $100
for all switches, relays, wire, and fuse
blocks to handle the tasks we've accepted
and lived with for nearly 100 years of operating
airplanes. What is the return on investment
for delta-dollars need to acquire this system?
Would the difference buy you a nice hand-held
GPS or radio for the flight bag?
It would be best if you did this exercise for yourselves
with input from your brothers here on the List. It's
best that the make/buy decision is made from a position
of understanding and meeting personal design goals than
to rely on anybody's advice.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 04:21 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> > compromised???
>
>
>The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the
>outer preinsulation. I thought I was getting a decent device when I
>bought the Crimpmaster. I found that terminals don't fit well in it,
>both in the direction of the wire and in the direction of the
>handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave up. I have done
>almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull tested
>enough to know when it's good.
Are you sure you have the right die-set
for the Crimpmaster? As I recall, there's
a suite of interchangeable dies offered
for that tool. I'd be interested in seeing
what you have. I'll pay the postage back
if you pay the postage to me. Send me some
of the terminals you're using too.
>Thanks for the link to the article, Bob. In it, however, there are a
>couple jpg links that were broken.
Yeah, I saw that but didn't have time to fix it then.
I've got a major overhaul of the website in the works
and hope to get the majority of bugs squashed then . . .
>And the pic in the article of the bond stud shows what looks like a
>nylon P clamp. They're okay to use?
That figure illustrates the idea and implementation of
po-man's bond studs. Except for specifics pertaining to
the procurement and installation of studs, anything else
you see needs to be filtered through the cookbook for
recipes for success. The parts shown here:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Lightening_Hole_Wiring.jpg
are another illustration of technique and not a recommendation
for parts/materials.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
As many of you may know, I have been obsessing a bit about my CHT's...to
get them consistent.
Here's the setup:
IO360B1F6
9.2:1 pistons
AFP Fuel Injection
LASAR Ignition with CHT sender relocated to allow for testing
Vetterman Dual Crossover Heater/Mufflers
SamJames cowl and plenum
Advanced Flight Systems 3400 Engine Monitor
Oil Cooler mounted behind #4 cylinder
Air for both Heater/Mufflers behind #3 cylinder
For constant power setting, here's the consistency that I have achieved:
#1 and #3 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
#2 and #4 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
The #1/#3 cylinders run 8.5 degrees hotter (avg) than the #2/#4
cylinders
With the members of the sets of cylinders running this close each other,
I'm thinking that I have the balance (front to rear) for each side
pretty well matched.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what could be causing the right side
to run hotter than the left. Here's some of what I'm thinking...: With
this plenum set-up, I'm thinking that the pressure/volume should
equalize from left to right. This would leave me with not much to
change to cause more cooling air to go from the left to the right -
meaning that I probably have to live with the differences.
Alternatively, maybe it's not really hotter...the two sets of CHT wires
for the left side (both equal length) are about three feet longer than
the ones for the right side (again, both equal length). Could the
difference in the lengths of the wires account for the reported
temperature difference?
I'm pretty close to thinking that this is as good as it gets...but I
would really like to know why...
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
Ralph,
You have got to be kidding about the tiny CHT temp. difference......!!
In the air-cooled world that is incredibly consistent. Just running
different power settings will cause a larger delta than what you
described. Go fly it.... you did everything right...
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph E. Capen
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com ; LycomingEngines-list(at)matronics.com ;
AeroElectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
As many of you may know, I have been obsessing a bit about my
CHT's...to get them consistent.
Here's the setup:
IO360B1F6
9.2:1 pistons
AFP Fuel Injection
LASAR Ignition with CHT sender relocated to allow for testing
Vetterman Dual Crossover Heater/Mufflers
SamJames cowl and plenum
Advanced Flight Systems 3400 Engine Monitor
Oil Cooler mounted behind #4 cylinder
Air for both Heater/Mufflers behind #3 cylinder
For constant power setting, here's the consistency that I have
achieved:
#1 and #3 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
#2 and #4 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
The #1/#3 cylinders run 8.5 degrees hotter (avg) than the #2/#4
cylinders
With the members of the sets of cylinders running this close each
other, I'm thinking that I have the balance (front to rear) for each
side pretty well matched.
I'm trying to wrap my head around what could be causing the right side
to run hotter than the left. Here's some of what I'm thinking...: With
this plenum set-up, I'm thinking that the pressure/volume should
equalize from left to right. This would leave me with not much to
change to cause more cooling air to go from the left to the right -
meaning that I probably have to live with the differences.
Alternatively, maybe it's not really hotter...the two sets of CHT wires
for the left side (both equal length) are about three feet longer than
the ones for the right side (again, both equal length). Could the
difference in the lengths of the wires account for the reported
temperature difference?
I'm pretty close to thinking that this is as good as it gets...but I
would really like to know why...
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks Dave,
Looks like a pattern is emerging.
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: David LLoyd <skywagon(at)charter.net>
>Sent: Nov 24, 2009 12:26 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
>
>Ralph,
>You have got to be kidding about the tiny CHT temp. difference......!! In the
air-cooled world that is incredibly consistent. Just running different power
settings will cause a larger delta than what you described. Go fly it.... you
did everything right...
>Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ralph E. Capen
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com ; LycomingEngines-list(at)matronics.com ; AeroElectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:22 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
>
>
> As many of you may know, I have been obsessing a bit about my CHT's...to get
them consistent.
>
> Here's the setup:
> IO360B1F6
> 9.2:1 pistons
> AFP Fuel Injection
> LASAR Ignition with CHT sender relocated to allow for testing
> Vetterman Dual Crossover Heater/Mufflers
> SamJames cowl and plenum
> Advanced Flight Systems 3400 Engine Monitor
>
> Oil Cooler mounted behind #4 cylinder
> Air for both Heater/Mufflers behind #3 cylinder
>
> For constant power setting, here's the consistency that I have achieved:
> #1 and #3 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
> #2 and #4 cylinders run within three degrees (avg) of each other
> The #1/#3 cylinders run 8.5 degrees hotter (avg) than the #2/#4 cylinders
>
> With the members of the sets of cylinders running this close each other, I'm
thinking that I have the balance (front to rear) for each side pretty well matched.
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around what could be causing the right side to run
hotter than the left. Here's some of what I'm thinking...: With this plenum
set-up, I'm thinking that the pressure/volume should equalize from left to right.
This would leave me with not much to change to cause more cooling air to
go from the left to the right - meaning that I probably have to live with the
differences. Alternatively, maybe it's not really hotter...the two sets of CHT
wires for the left side (both equal length) are about three feet longer than
the ones for the right side (again, both equal length). Could the difference
in the lengths of the wires account for the reported temperature difference?
>
> I'm pretty close to thinking that this is as good as it gets...but I would really
like to know why...
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 11:26 PM 11/23/2009, you wrote:
>Ralph,
>You have got to be kidding about the tiny CHT temp.
>difference......!! In the air-cooled world that is incredibly
>consistent. Just running different power settings will cause a
>larger delta than what you described. Go fly it.... you did
>everything right...
>[]
>
>Dave
You beat me to it Dave. It's unusual that the casually
installed system runs so temperature tight! I don't know if
G. Braley still monitors the AE-List but I'm sure he would be able
to recite a long list of variables that affect operating
temperatures of each cylinder. He built a business on fine
tuning fuel injected engines for optimum performance on
a cylinder/by/cylinder basis. To get a handle on effectiveness
of his development efforts, he first needed to identify
and quantify if not control variables outside his sphere of
development. I'm sure they were plentiful.
Ralph's installation looks like a nicely frosted cake to
me too!
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks Bob - and I take it that the wire length is not a factor...?
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Sent: Nov 24, 2009 10:04 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
>
>At 11:26 PM 11/23/2009, you wrote:
>>Ralph,
>>You have got to be kidding about the tiny CHT temp.
>>difference......!! In the air-cooled world that is incredibly
>>consistent. Just running different power settings will cause a
>>larger delta than what you described. Go fly it.... you did
>>everything right...
>>[]
>>
>>Dave
>
> You beat me to it Dave. It's unusual that the casually
> installed system runs so temperature tight! I don't know if
> G. Braley still monitors the AE-List but I'm sure he would be able
> to recite a long list of variables that affect operating
> temperatures of each cylinder. He built a business on fine
> tuning fuel injected engines for optimum performance on
> a cylinder/by/cylinder basis. To get a handle on effectiveness
> of his development efforts, he first needed to identify
> and quantify if not control variables outside his sphere of
> development. I'm sure they were plentiful.
>
> Ralph's installation looks like a nicely frosted cake to
> me too!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
I'll be troubleshooting a sudden discrepancy in CHT's over the holidays that
cropped up shortly after the day I put my new P-mags on in place of the
older models - suddenly #4 is showing about 190* F when the other three are
still indicating within a few degrees of each other in the 350-380 range.
EGT's are all where they've always been for all 4 cylinders, and power
output, engine smoothness seem normal.
I'm guessing a bayonet probe has been jarred loose somehow or has failed,
but need to pull the cowl and have a closer look. Between an IR thermometer
to scan the cylinders, and a cup of boiling water to dunk the probe in, I
hope I can determine whether the problem is with the probe and wiring, or a
cylinder that's actually too cold, for whatever reason.
I will let the list know what I find.
Bill B. /RV-6A O-320
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks Bob - and I take it that the wire length is not a factor...?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> >Sent: Nov 24, 2009 10:04 AM
> >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
> >
> >At 11:26 PM 11/23/2009, you wrote:
> >>Ralph,
> >>You have got to be kidding about the tiny CHT temp.
> >>difference......!! In the air-cooled world that is incredibly
> >>consistent. Just running different power settings will cause a
> >>larger delta than what you described. Go fly it.... you did
> >>everything right...
> >>[]
> >>
> >>Dave
> >
> > You beat me to it Dave. It's unusual that the casually
> > installed system runs so temperature tight! I don't know if
> > G. Braley still monitors the AE-List but I'm sure he would be able
> > to recite a long list of variables that affect operating
> > temperatures of each cylinder. He built a business on fine
> > tuning fuel injected engines for optimum performance on
> > a cylinder/by/cylinder basis. To get a handle on effectiveness
> > of his development efforts, he first needed to identify
> > and quantify if not control variables outside his sphere of
> > development. I'm sure they were plentiful.
> >
> > Ralph's installation looks like a nicely frosted cake to
> > me too!
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> > ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> > ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> > ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> > ( community. )
> > ---------------------------------------
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 09:24 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Thanks Bob - and I take it that the wire length is not a factor...?
Probably not. CHT displays may be implemented with either
thermocouples or some form of temperature-dependent resistance
"sender".
When I was working on S.E. production airplanes, the
technology of choice was temperature-dependent resistors.
But even these devices are relatively high resistance
compared to the resistance of lead wires. Modern
implementation of thermocouple to micro-controller
allows thermocouples of any practical length without
measurement error.
WAAAAaayyy back when, the first thermocouple driven
temperature displays were meter movements that read
millivolt levels directly. Instruments of this class
must necessarily be LOW impedance and therefore draw
significant current. This drove designers to use FAT
thermocouple wires of KNOWN length. Quite often, the
instrument would include a precision calibration
resistor on the back of the instrument so that readings
for the outboard engines on a DC6 could be calibrated
for the longer lead-wires as compared to the inboard
engines.
This FACT of legacy thermocouple technology has
morphed over the years into a modern MYTH about
thermocouple lead lengths. If your installation
manual omits discussion about sensor lead lengths
then they're not critical.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks Bob,
Nothing about lead length that I've found.
Based on the pattern of responses, time for a coke and a smile....and go fly!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Sent: Nov 24, 2009 11:31 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CHT update
>
>
>At 09:24 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Thanks Bob - and I take it that the wire length is not a factor...?
>
> Probably not. CHT displays may be implemented with either
> thermocouples or some form of temperature-dependent resistance
> "sender".
>
> When I was working on S.E. production airplanes, the
> technology of choice was temperature-dependent resistors.
> But even these devices are relatively high resistance
> compared to the resistance of lead wires. Modern
> implementation of thermocouple to micro-controller
> allows thermocouples of any practical length without
> measurement error.
>
> WAAAAaayyy back when, the first thermocouple driven
> temperature displays were meter movements that read
> millivolt levels directly. Instruments of this class
> must necessarily be LOW impedance and therefore draw
> significant current. This drove designers to use FAT
> thermocouple wires of KNOWN length. Quite often, the
> instrument would include a precision calibration
> resistor on the back of the instrument so that readings
> for the outboard engines on a DC6 could be calibrated
> for the longer lead-wires as compared to the inboard
> engines.
>
> This FACT of legacy thermocouple technology has
> morphed over the years into a modern MYTH about
> thermocouple lead lengths. If your installation
> manual omits discussion about sensor lead lengths
> then they're not critical.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GPS batteries drain |
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently
wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems
normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says
something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to
run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the
screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though the
unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from the
Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to fix
this? Thank you.
Sam
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Bob.
I'd be happy to send the unit to you. Pretty sure it's got the right die set. I'll
lookup your address on your website.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274645#274645
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 10:54 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks, Bob.
>
>I'd be happy to send the unit to you. Pretty sure it's got the right die set.
If it's mashing insulators such that they
expose the insulation grip sleeves, then it
seems likely that it's not the right die-set
for the terminals you have.
> I'll lookup your address on your website.
Good. Send some terminals too. Let's see what
ingredients are not meeting design goals
in your recipe for success.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I
recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and
seems normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message
that says something like "External power lost, push any button within
30 seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS
shuts down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even
though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads
that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any
ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
to 10 days.
It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
on the batteries when in the various operating states.
Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
the measurement.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Hanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | backup battery connected to two units |
Bob,
Hope this comes through ok. This is a backup battery assembly for a trutrak
ADI. Pins 1 and 6 are hardwired for normal operation. Pin 8 is switched on
for backup battery. Switch illuminates in backup position.
I'd like to attach a second instrument (nominal draw of 0.45MA @ 13.8 v
illuminated) to take advantage of the availability of backup.
I understand and am not concerned about reduction in overall time of
operation of backup if both units are on.
Can I just run the white/red power output to both units?
Do I need diodes in line with each unit in case one fails?
Other alternative arrangement?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Hanaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
I probably could work it with the battery cover off. So, I should hook the
current meter in and see if there's a drain. It would be very low, because
it takes a week or two for the 4 AAs to drain.
The plug looks like this: http://www.gilsson.com/garmin_gps/cables/rb.htm
Two leads connect to ship's power, and the other two go to the Dynon.
Sam
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
> This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently
> wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
>
> The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems
> normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says
> something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to
> run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the
> screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
>
> In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though
> the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from
> the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to
> fix this? Thank you.
>
> No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
> of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
> the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
> unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
> clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
> that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
> it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
> still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
> when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
> battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
> to 10 days.
>
> It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
> on the batteries when in the various operating states.
> Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
> is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
> to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
> not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
> the measurement.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Morrow <danfm01(at)butter.toast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
Sam Hoskins wrote:
I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been flying
a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the luxury!!). I
carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up but never turn it
on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to replace
the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an internal
clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an initial
satellite fix quicker.
> This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I
> recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
>
> The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems
> normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that
> says something like "External power lost, push any button within 30
> seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts
> down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
>
> In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even
> though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads
> that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any
> ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
>
> Sam
> www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
USPS scheduled to pickup tomorrow. Should be there in 3-4 days. Could have made
it sooner, but didn't want to drop your name to them. It fit in a small priority
mail box, but reminded me of sitting in an Allegiant Airline seat.
I didn't see your post about the terminals, so they aren't included. Seems like
it was the yellow ones that I started with, and know that one insulation gripper
ring poked through. They were AMP PIDG bought from B&C. Others failed the
pull test when cycled through. I had done some red terminals, too, that I'd tried.
To start, I didn't know which end the terminal should go, so I called Ideal
tech support and verified it. I'm curious to see what you find.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274677#274677
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
>I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been
>flying a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the
>luxury!!). I carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up
>but never turn it
>on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to
>replace the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an
>internal clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an
>initial satellite fix quicker.
That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
is not a very solid backup. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
I use a cigarette lighter... Carefully. Just kidding... Mostly.
Regards,
Matt-
>
>
> At 03:41 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Hi Guys
>>
>>What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?
>
> Heat . . .
>
> Seriously, it depends on your situation. I've had $150 heat
> guns than put concentrated heat into tiny spaces. They're
> quite useful when working inside some piece of electronics.
> 95% of the time, a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight does the
> job. ANY heatgun can supply MORE heat than you need. Get
> used to the specific combination of shrink, situation and
> tools before you dive into finished work.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Danielson <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | GPS batteries drain |
I have digital camera that I am sure has a switch mode power supply.
When these batteries (AA) go dead I keep and use them in flashlights and portable
radios.
It seems there is plenty of power left in the cells for the radio or flashlight
to last quite awhile.
Try saving and checking the voltage left in batteries used in cameras and such.
John L. Danielson
Senior Engineering Technician
WLC Engineering, Surveying & Planning
200 Pronghorn St., Casper, WY 82601
307-266-2524
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS batteries drain
At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
>I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been
>flying a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the
>luxury!!). I carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up
>but never turn it
>on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to
>replace the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an
>internal clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an
>initial satellite fix quicker.
That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
is not a very solid backup. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
Good Afternoon Matt,
The best, fastest, and most carefully detailing wiring artist I know will
use nothing but a Bic to shrink the tubing!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Airpark
Downers Grove, IL
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 11/24/2009 3:47:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
mprather(at)spro.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
I use a cigarette lighter... Carefully. Just kidding... Mostly.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> At 03:41 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Hi Guys
>>
>>What's the chosen method of shrinking, 'heat-shrink' ?
>
> Heat . . .
>
> Seriously, it depends on your situation. I've had $150 heat
> guns than put concentrated heat into tiny spaces. They're
> quite useful when working inside some piece of electronics.
> 95% of the time, a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight does the
> job. ANY heatgun can supply MORE heat than you need. Get
> used to the specific combination of shrink, situation and
> tools before you dive into finished work.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
I use a butane lighter. I thought that's what most people used. Just grabbed the
long nosed one for the barbeque. Looks like it's refillable. Actually might
use the refill feature, since I have a can of butane that I won't use for my soldering
iron. I had bought a Bernzomatic micro torch with a soldering iron tip.
The flame pulses about every 3 seconds, which makes it useless for the flame
part of it. The iron part evens the pulses out, but I've got a 30W that I use
for that.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274689#274689
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Morrow <danfm01(at)butter.toast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
I do in fact carry extra batteries in my flight bag.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sam Hoskins wrote:
>>
>> I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been
>> flying a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the
>> luxury!!). I carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up
>> but never turn it
>> on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to
>> replace the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an
>> internal clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an
>> initial satellite fix quicker.
>
> That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
> too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
> is not a very solid backup. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil White <philwhite9(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | AGM batteries question |
I am building an RV with Mazda rotary engine that is electric-dependent,
so I will have 2 batteries, and probably 2 alternators. It came time to
purchase batteries, and I presumed I would use the Odyssey PC-680 16AHr
AGM units. A web search didn't find any bargains (lowest was $118 each,
if memory serves).
A search for AGM batteries led me to Gruber Power Systems, who make
an 18 AHr unit nearly identical in size and capacity to the Odyssey 680,
but only $42 each. I have purchased a pair, and am in process of
mounting and wiring them, but I wonder if anyone has experience with or
has tested Gruber batteries, or others like them, to determine if they
are well suited to aircraft use.
I did notice that the terminals are noticably thinner than what one
sees on the Odysseys, being a half inch tall and wide, but only 1/16"
thick protruding up from the battery top. Makes me wonder if these
batteries won't supply the high current needed for starting an engine,
only having long life in lower current demand applications.
Any experience you can share?
Phil in IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | GPS batteries drain |
...about spare cells, etc.
I use a "Sharpie" pen and write the date on spare cells like AA's. I also
date mark them when inserting into a device. Down the road, I don't have to
guess as to how old they are, and it gives me a good idea when to pitch
them.
Dave
__________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Morrow" <danfm01(at)butter.toast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS batteries drain
>
>
> I do in fact carry extra batteries in my flight bag.
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>> At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam Hoskins wrote:
>>>
>>> I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been flying
>>> a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the luxury!!). I
>>> carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up but never turn it
>>> on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to replace
>>> the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an internal
>>> clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an initial
>>> satellite fix quicker.
>>
>> That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
>> too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
>> is not a very solid backup. See:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
Guys, I appreciate the help about maintaining good battery practices, but
that is not the issue here. The unit eats batteries when it is truned off,
and it never did it before I wired it into my panel.
I received a couple of off-line comments from another GPSMap196 use that are
very relevant:
Mine does this as well. I understand that the very last prom
> update addresses this- but I've not tried installing it. I know
> it works now, and I'd rather not trash the unit by attempting
> a download.
>
> However, I had the problem on my gps 196, and I noted that the
> change log pointed out that there was a known problem with
> the batteries draining when external power was cut.
>
> Addressed in Ver. 4.40, as of Oct 19, 2006 of the software.
>
> If that's the version you have, Then I guess the problem still
> exists, and I'm glad I didn't upgrade..
>
> I assume that it's part of the "switch to the other source" logic
> that attempts to keep the unit up and operational through the
> change from internal power to external, and back. It appears
> to shut down, but not all of it does. Since I changed the checklist, the
> problem went away. Prior to that, I was changing batteries on
> a regular basis. And.. one other thing to check for- I wiggle my
> lighter plug before power-up- I noted when the batteries were dead
> that sometimes I did not have a good contact in that plug- easy to
> see when there's no other power. I fly with a spare set of
> batteries, and a spare OLD gps unit that takes forever to acquire
> a signal. Before I knew about the drain and the lighter socket
> problem, I resorted to it once when the low level scattered
> suddenly went solid.. Nice to have the old-fashioned pointer
> to the home airport, as well as the distance. Nicer still
> to find a break in the overcast to let me back through!
> I had enough worries without trying to debug a suddenly blank GPS.
>
> Anyway- you might take a look at your software version, and let
> me know if you do the upgrade.
>
This sounds like the problem with my unit - only problem is, I upgraded the
software for my portable about two years ago.
I sent Garm's tech support a request for help, but nothing yet. This isn't
a big issue, but if Garmin sends a reply, I will be sure and pass it along.
Thanks.
Sam
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
> This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently
> wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
>
> The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems
> normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says
> something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to
> run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the
> screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
>
> In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though
> the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from
> the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to
> fix this? Thank you.
>
> No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
> of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
> the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
> unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
> clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
> that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
> it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
> still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
> when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
> battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
> to 10 days.
>
> It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
> on the batteries when in the various operating states.
> Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
> is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
> to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
> not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
> the measurement.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | GPS batteries drain |
I also have a Garmin GPS 196. It says somewhere in that thick owner's
manual that it drains batteries even when turned off. Mine takes about
six months for the batteries to go dead. My only use for the 196 is to
backup my panel mount Chelton GPS, so dead batteries aren't acceptable.
In response, I removed the batteries and keep them in the airplane's
glove box. I wouldn't have bought the 196 for my application if I knew
it drained the batteries even when it was turned off.
Dennis
Lancair Legacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lowrance database |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
TH-SR wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> The last Jeppesen update issued by Lowrance for the AirMap 100 was Version
> 1.9, dated 6/27/02. It is available for download at their website.
>
> http://www.lowrance.com/Downloads/Product-Software-Updates/
>
> I'm not aware of any third party updates...
>
> Todd
> West Bend, WI
>
> ---
The update at lowrance.com is actually an operating system update for the Airmap
100, not the navdata. Navdata updates at lei-extras.com are not listed for
the Airmap 100 anymore. My last update was in 1999. Does anyone have a more
recent update? I believe the name of file is JEPPDATA.LOW
Thanks, Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274839#274839
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Depending on the answer to this question, I might have been better off asking it
earlier. I have 4awg welding cable between my battery contactor and my starter
contactor. It's only 2" long, plus the ~1/2" crimped in each terminal. It fits
fine, but now that the lugs are crimped on, it's fairly stiff. In a shorter
wire or a longer section of this fat cable, I'd make them a little long. With
this 2" jobbie, there's no give. I could position the contactors so it puts
a little compression on the cable, or is this even necessary?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274844#274844
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS batteries drain |
Sam, I also have a 196 hard wired into my airplane that does the same
thing. I just assumed it was something inherent in the unit. It's
mounted to my stick and since I don't use it as a portable I don't worry
about it. It's been that way for several years.
Deke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Morning, Dan...
First...hope you and everyone reading this has a great Thanksgiving!
As far as your short 4 gauge wire, I'm not sure what your concern
is...tension on the contactor terminals maybe? Or not being able to
quite fit it between the two contactors? In either case, my first
thought is to make a new "cable" that is long enough to form a loop so
that it leaves one contactor's terminal and then loops around 360
degrees before it connects to the other. If you can make this loop big
enough, it should remove all tension from the terminals and allow some
give and adjustment in the wire.
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
messydeer wrote:
>
> Depending on the answer to this question, I might have been better off asking
it earlier. I have 4awg welding cable between my battery contactor and my starter
contactor. It's only 2" long, plus the ~1/2" crimped in each terminal. It
fits fine, but now that the lugs are crimped on, it's fairly stiff. In a shorter
wire or a longer section of this fat cable, I'd make them a little long. With
this 2" jobbie, there's no give. I could position the contactors so it puts
a little compression on the cable, or is this even necessary?
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Often a copper or brass bar or strap works well if there will be a bend
in it. I use a U shaped thin bar about 1/16" x 3/4" to connect two side
by side contactors. No crimped connectors, it takes up less space, and
it flexes amply so as to not stress terminals.
Ken
Harley wrote:
> Morning, Dan...
>
> First...hope you and everyone reading this has a great Thanksgiving!
>
> As far as your short 4 gauge wire, I'm not sure what your concern
> is...tension on the contactor terminals maybe? Or not being able to
> quite fit it between the two contactors? In either case, my first
> thought is to make a new "cable" that is long enough to form a loop so
> that it leaves one contactor's terminal and then loops around 360
> degrees before it connects to the other. If you can make this loop big
> enough, it should remove all tension from the terminals and allow some
> give and adjustment in the wire.
>
> Harley
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> messydeer wrote:
>>
>> Depending on the answer to this question, I might have been better off asking
it earlier. I have 4awg welding cable between my battery contactor and my starter
contactor. It's only 2" long, plus the ~1/2" crimped in each terminal. It
fits fine, but now that the lugs are crimped on, it's fairly stiff. In a shorter
wire or a longer section of this fat cable, I'd make them a little long.
With this 2" jobbie, there's no give. I could position the contactors so it puts
a little compression on the cable, or is this even necessary?
>>
>> --------
>> Dan
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, guys :-)
It's the stress on the terminals I'm concerned about. I had outsourced the crimping,
so going with the copper bar would be easier than doing the terminals again.
I had read in the archives that Bob had a comic book describing bridging
a short distance between 2 contactors, but couldn't find anything else on it.
Maybe this is what was meant.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274947#274947
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Good Morning Harley,
Or --- Why not just use a Buss Bar?
Beech has used them for years on the Bonanza line.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 11/26/2009 7:21:35 A.M. Central Standard Time,
harley(at)AgelessWings.com writes:
Morning, Dan...
First...hope you and everyone reading this has a great Thanksgiving!
As far as your short 4 gauge wire, I'm not sure what your concern
is...tension on the contactor terminals maybe? Or not being able to quite fit
it
between the two contactors? In either case, my first thought is to make a
new "cable" that is long enough to form a loop so that it leaves one
contactor's terminal and then loops around 360 degrees before it connects to the
other. If you can make this loop big enough, it should remove all tension
from the terminals and allow some give and adjustment in the wire.
Harley
____________________________________
messydeer wrote:
__ (mailto:messydeer(at)yahoo.com)
Depending on the answer to this question, I might have been better off
asking it earlier. I have 4awg welding cable between my battery contactor and my
starter contactor. It's only 2" long, plus the ~1/2" crimped in each
terminal. It fits fine, but now that the lugs are crimped on, it's fairly stiff.
In a shorter wire or a longer section of this fat cable, I'd make them a
little long. With this 2" jobbie, there's no give. I could position the
contactors so it puts a little compression on the cable, or is this even necessary?
--------
Dan
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Morning, Bob...
>>Or --- Why not just use a Buss Bar?<<
I thought of that, but it sounded to me like he was trying to find a way
to use a cable for some reason...so I suggested the loop!
...and I hope you are enjoying your Thanksgiving as much as I am mine!
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Harley,
>
> Or --- Why not just use a Buss Bar?
>
> Beech has used them for years on the Bonanza line.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Downers Grove, Illinois
> Stearman N3977A
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2009 7:21:35 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> harley(at)AgelessWings.com writes:
>
> Morning, Dan...
>
> First...hope you and everyone reading this has a great Thanksgiving!
>
> As far as your short 4 gauge wire, I'm not sure what your concern
> is...tension on the contactor terminals maybe? Or not being able
> to quite fit it between the two contactors? In either case, my
> first thought is to make a new "cable" that is long enough to form
> a loop so that it leaves one contactor's terminal and then loops
> around 360 degrees before it connects to the other. If you can
> make this loop big enough, it should remove all tension from the
> terminals and allow some give and adjustment in the wire.
>
> Harley
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> messydeer wrote:
>>
>> Depending on the answer to this question, I might have been better off asking
it earlier. I have 4awg welding cable between my battery contactor and my
starter contactor. It's only 2" long, plus the ~1/2" crimped in each terminal.
It fits fine, but now that the lugs are crimped on, it's fairly stiff. In a
shorter wire or a longer section of this fat cable, I'd make them a little long.
With this 2" jobbie, there's no give. I could position the contactors so it
puts a little compression on the cable, or is this even necessary?
>>
>> --------
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AGM batteries question |
At 01:29 PM 11/25/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am building an RV with Mazda rotary engine that is
>electric-dependent, so I will have 2 batteries, and probably 2
>alternators. It came time to purchase batteries, and I presumed I
>would use the Odyssey PC-680 16AHr AGM units. A web search didn't
>find any bargains (lowest was $118 each, if memory serves).
> A search for AGM batteries led me to Gruber Power Systems, who
> make an 18 AHr unit nearly identical in size and capacity to the
> Odyssey 680, but only $42 each. I have purchased a pair, and am in
> process of mounting and wiring them, but I wonder if anyone has
> experience with or has tested Gruber batteries, or others like
> them, to determine if they are well suited to aircraft use.
ANY reasonable battery is suited to aircraft use IF your
system is designed and crafted for failure tolerance.
In other words, assuming your system is designed such
that failure of a battery brings you to an unplanned
arrival with the earth, then NO battery (or its accessory
connection hardware) can offer at 100.00% level of
certainty for no unhappy days in the cockpit.
First, set up design goals that include conducing
failure mode effects analysis on your proposed system.
You need to KNOW than no single failure of any fragile
or wearing component will present a hazard. If such
components are identified, they are (1) increased in
robustness to achieve reliability of prop-bolts or
(2) backed up by a plan-b. In the case of wearing
components (like batteries, tires, oil, alternator
belts, etc.) you craft a preventative maintenance plan
that identifies and replaces a sub-standard component
long before its ability to deliver to design goals
is compromised.
> I did notice that the terminals are noticably thinner than what
> one sees on the Odysseys, being a half inch tall and wide, but only
> 1/16" thick protruding up from the battery top. Makes me wonder if
> these batteries won't supply the high current needed for starting
> an engine, only having long life in lower current demand applications.
Starting the engine is the LEAST of your concerns.
Battery sizing (energy stored in a NEW battery)
and performance tracking (energy stored in a USED
battery) are the drivers for your battery selection
and maintenance activities.
> Any experience you can share?
Be wary of anecdotal experiences. There are many, MANY
combinations of condition and stress that drive the
performance of a battery. Some combinations can make
a platinum plated super-battery look like a brick of
lead while other conditions induce owners to heap praises
upon their bargain-barn battery.
If selected, installed and maintained with rudimentary
knowledge of requirements to meet design goals ANY
battery (including your $42 find) is a candidate
for exploration.
You will have to judge for yourself whether your
choice has performed to satisfactory cost-of-ownership
values. You won't have that answer for several years.
In the mean time, be VERY wary of those who extol
the virtues of their own choices: "My Excalibur 1000
cranking-amp battery has been spinning my engine for
6 years now . . . best battery I've ever owned."
Ask that fellow how long that battery runs his
electro-whizzies if the alternator quits. It's
almost a sure bet he can't tell you.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Concorde/owner_manual_new.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bat_thd.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/neveragain/neveragain_2.html
The short answer to your question is: Yeah, that battery
should be included in your suite of choices. Plan
on doing periodic capacity and load-dump testing to
insure continued flight-worthiness in concert with
your design goals.
See chapter 17 of:
https://matronics.com/aeroelectric/Catalog/pub/pub.html#P-Book
In the mean time, what are you building? What's your
proposed electrical system architecture look like?
Have you done a load analysis of all the electro-whizzies
on your airplane to size your energy requirements
for normal and abnormal operating conditions?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
At 10:21 AM 11/26/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks, guys :-)
>
>It's the stress on the terminals I'm concerned about. I had
>outsourced the crimping, so going with the copper bar would be
>easier than doing the terminals again. I had read in the archives
>that Bob had a comic book describing bridging a short distance
>between 2 contactors, but couldn't find anything else on it. Maybe
>this is what was meant.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Contactor_Interconnect/
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Yes, thanks everybody. Those pics help, Bob :-)
Looks like some are made of brass and some of copper. Would copper work better
in my case, since it would flex a bit more than brass? Post to post would be ~4"
with a 90 twist.
My pic shows the situation. The cable from the battery positive to battery contactor
is also pretty short, but I can mount it with enough flex to make me happy.
There'll be a little more flex when the 2nd hole is drilled after the contactor
is rotated a few degrees counterclockwise.
I had not particularly wisely opened a couple holes for the starter contactor to
3/16, then ended up having my starter lead too short. That's what the 3/16 clecos
go through. So I moved things over a couple inches and can use one of the
bigger holes for the battery contactor.
I had hoped the starter contactor could use the other big hole, as shown in the
pic, but there is a 3/4" square tube stiffener it would interfere with behind
the vertical row of holes. Due to the starter cable length, I can only move
the starter contactor to the right (referenced from the pic) and/or up. It only
needs to go an inch or less to straddle the firewall stiffener, but the cable
won't make it that far.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274962#274962
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/short_contactor_cable_400.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brooks Wolfe" <slipstream(at)wavecable.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Bus bar stock is Van's setup as well. Van's plans actually call for it t
o
be doubled-up between the contactors. In such short distances, I think i
t's
easier to work with than soldered terminal lugs in 4ga cable.
Brooks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
Good Afternoon Dan,
I would use copper.
It has better conductivity and withstands bending better. If you look
closely at 'Lectric Bob's Beechcraft photos you may note that Beech often
applies a coating over their buss bars, I have used tool handle dip material for
such purposes
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 11/26/2009 12:17:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/short_contactor_cable_400.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
> I would use copper.
>
> It has better conductivity and withstands bending better. If you look closely
at 'Lectric Bob's Beechcraft photos you may note that Beech often applies a coating
over their buss bars, I have used tool handle dip material for such purposes
Thanks, Bob :-)
I did notice that pic and could see a little copper colored area just around one
connection, but didn't know what to use for the insulation. If my hardware store
doesn't have 063 I can get some from Vans, like Brooks said. But Brooks,
you said Vans says to double it? Not having it in hand, I'd be concerned about
it being too stiff then. According to my notes, #4 cross section is 0.0327 sq
in. So 063 x 1/2" would purtneer the same without doubling.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274969#274969
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
At 01:54 PM 11/26/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > I would use copper.
> >
> > It has better conductivity and withstands bending better. If you
> look closely at 'Lectric Bob's Beechcraft photos you may note that
> Beech often applies a coating over their buss bars, I have used
> tool handle dip material for such purposes
>
>
>Thanks, Bob :-)
>
>I did notice that pic and could see a little copper colored area
>just around one connection, but didn't know what to use for the
>insulation. If my hardware store doesn't have 063 I can get some
>from Vans, like Brooks said. But Brooks, you said Vans says to
>double it? Not having it in hand, I'd be concerned about it being
>too stiff then. According to my notes, #4 cross section is 0.0327 sq
>in. So 063 x 1/2" would purtneer the same without doubling.
You're going to drill 5/16" holes in the straps
so 5/8" width material would give you better edge
margins. But given the necessary twist and the
angles . . . I'd go for a longer piece of 4AWG
installed for comfortable as opposed to tight
fit. It's going to be a whole bunch easier to
fabricate and will look nicer in the long run.
An extra inch or more in wire length is not
going to be a performance issue.
Bob . . .
>--------
>Dan
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274969#274969
>
>
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Samuelian <psamuelian(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse and MaxDim |
Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving...
Just a reminder...
Last call for the MaxDim / MaxPulse group buy is this Sunday,
11/29/2009.
If you want to purchase a MaxDim for $121+3.35 shipping or a MaxPulse
for $141+$3.35 shipping, please go to
samcoaviation.com
and complete the purchase through PayPal. The $8 rebate per unit will
be refunded to you as a manual PayPal refund.
Thanks to all who have participated already!
On Nov 16, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Phil Samuelian wrote:
> This is a good time to have another MaxDim and MaxPulse "Group Buy".
> Wholesale prices on Seaton Engineering products are being raised
> substantially on December 1. I set up a "Group Buy" almost a year
> ago for U.S. List members only, so here we go again...
>
> If you're looking for the most sophisticated panel dimmer for your
> project, the MaxDim is it.
> If you're looking for a sophisticated landing light controller for
> your project, check out the MaxPulse.
>
> So, through November 29, 2009 order as many as you want at
> samcoaviation.com and receive an $8 rebate off the posted price when
> you add the note "Aeroelectric List Group Buy" during check out.
> Rebates will be applied to your PayPal account after the order is
> placed because I have to do this manually.
> $3.35 shipping (+ sales tax in CA), but multiple unit orders will
> ship together and receive a shipping discount, too (added to rebate).
>
> These dimmers are unparalleled in performance...
> NO heat, NO separate, bulky control unit. NO heatsink. Amazing 350W
> power control in a 1.25" diameter unit.
> This is a best-of-breed product. Mooney has specified these for all
> their new planes! (STC and PMA)
> 5-35VDC, 12.5Amps and less than 1 ounce!
> Hook up power, ground, and lights (3 connections), 2 mounting holes
> to drill, and you're done.
>
> The 2 units in my Cessna have been installed for over a year, and
> still perform flawlessly.
> See the specs at samcoaviation.com
> Prices are already better than most dealers, plus now you get an
> additional $8 off each unit until Nov 29, 2009.
> Thanks,
> Phil
> RV7, Cessna 177
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:32 AM, cherokee wrote:
>
>> Hey list members. Just thought I would let you all know that we
>> completed our installation of the MaxPulse and MaxDim units in our
>> 150, 4 months ago now. These things run cool and are a dream to
>> install. These correct so many problems we encounter as aircraft
>> owners. Like replacing the rheostats or the big dual dimmer that
>> costs $1200 from Cessna. Yikes.
>> You can see these at www.maxpulsemaxdim.com .
>>
>> I see another member is gathering a group together for a special
>> buy on the MaxDim, I think I will join in that effort for our other
>> Cub.
>>
>> Mark
>> Eagle River, Alaska
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
I find that a good source of copper is copper water pipe; heat it up to
almost red hot with a blow torch and let it cool naturally to anneal it and
then you can hammer or squash it flat in a vice and cut it to size. A
couple of layers of heat shrink for insulation and you've got the bus bar/
connector.
SA Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
Sent: 26 November 2009 09:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short?
> I would use copper.
>
> It has better conductivity and withstands bending better. If you look
closely at 'Lectric Bob's Beechcraft photos you may note that Beech often
applies a coating over their buss bars, I have used tool handle dip material
for such purposes
Thanks, Bob :-)
I did notice that pic and could see a little copper colored area just around
one connection, but didn't know what to use for the insulation. If my
hardware store doesn't have 063 I can get some from Vans, like Brooks said.
But Brooks, you said Vans says to double it? Not having it in hand, I'd be
concerned about it being too stiff then. According to my notes, #4 cross
section is 0.0327 sq in. So 063 x 1/2" would purtneer the same without
doubling.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274969#274969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi gang
working on my Elec system for my Jab 3300.
The alt on the Jab outputs around 20Amp ( so they say) and a lot of people don't
like the standard Jab regulator.
I was thinking of replacing the jab regulator with either the Aussie Powermate
or the B&C LR3C-14 regulators.
The Powermate is only good for 8 amps, I don't really understand since the Jab
Alt is around 20 amps will this damage it and I will need more than 8 amps ability
as I will be flying at night.
>From B&C , the LR3C operates as a quiet, linear regulator, generating no audio
or radio noise (in contrast to switching-type regulators). Second, it provides
a vital safeguard for your aircraft electrical system with a solid-state, crowbar
over voltage protection circuit. And third, the LR3C Controller functions
as an important low-voltage monitoring and warning system.
I like the crowbar system and the low voltage warning are also a good Idea. but
I cannot find out how many amps this reg is good for as it only talks about
a 5 amp CB .??
Am I mixing apples and oranges with all this Amp stuff on the regulators.
I know with all the stuff running I will almost need the full 20 amps at night.
So which one is best suited and why?
thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275031#275031
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
One picture is worth a thousand words. Fatwire is to be connected in roughly the
same way as hydraulic hose.
Think electricity instead of fluid and See: http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/FPE/Conductors/Article/True/6418/Conductors
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275039#275039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
At 03:59 AM 11/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi gang
>working on my Elec system for my Jab 3300.
>The alt on the Jab outputs around 20Amp ( so they say) and a lot of
>people don't like the standard Jab regulator.
>
>I was thinking of replacing the jab regulator with either the Aussie
>Powermate or the B&C LR3C-14 regulators.
An LR3C regulator is for WOUND FIELD, automotive alternators.
It is NOT a replacement for RECTIFIER/REGULATORS appropriate
to PERMANENT MAGNET alternators.
>So which one is best suited and why?
What's the service history on the stock regulator?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
thanks Bob
I knew I did not fully understand it. so the PMR1C-14 would best suit my needs
along with a crow bar circuit and low voltage warning system
Here in Australia a lot of people have ditched the std Kabota tractor Regulator
supplied with the Jab engine as they only tend to last 6 months .( although some
have lasted years). if you have any elec problem's, the first step is to chuck
the old reg and buy another one and also carry a spare on fly aways. Or
use a Powermate or some other product that meets your needs
Thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275105#275105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
At 05:06 PM 11/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>thanks Bob
>I knew I did not fully understand it. so the PMR1C-14 would best
>suit my needs along with a crow bar circuit and low voltage warning system
>
>Here in Australia a lot of people have ditched the std Kabota
>tractor Regulator supplied with the Jab engine as they only tend to
>last 6 months .( although some have lasted years). if you have any
>elec problem's, the first step is to chuck the old reg and buy
>another one and also carry a spare on fly aways. Or use a Powermate
>or some other product that meets your needs
Consider one of the John Deere tractor regulators
like the AM101406. These are heavy duty critters with
hefty heat sinks.
http://tinyurl.com/yarwkv3
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, guys :-)
I ended up going with the cable. Cut the longer piece and took it to the hardware
store where they crimped it for nothing. For good measure, I soldered the ends
when I got it home. Fits nice with a good arc to it.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275122#275122
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser... |
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly
this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser
has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days
left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching.
I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members
have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser
cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses,
I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that
happen!
Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation
a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't
the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers?
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in
December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
Does anyone know where a kx170b installation manual is on line. My a/i
is helping another friend with a spam can and had a question about a
mini bnc connnector.
Thanks
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KX 170B Installation manual |
At 08:33 AM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone know where a kx170b installation manual is on line. My a/i
>is helping another friend with a spam can and had a question about a
>mini bnc connnector.
If the question concerns a connector, perhaps
the answer is not unique to the KX170 radio . . .
I don't have a manual on the 170 but do for the
following radios:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX155_Installation_Manual.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX125_Inst_Manual_Corrected.pdf
perhaps the needed information is contained in
one of these publications.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
Bob,
You are probably correct. He was curious about a connector that looks
like a bnc connector but is smaller. I didn't have a lot of time to dig
into the issue, I just took it at face value he needed the manual. I
tried looking on your website, I would get the following error on some
of your downloadable files.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Apache/2.0.52 Server at www.matronics.com Port 80
Thanks
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
At 09:45 AM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>You are probably correct. He was curious about a connector that looks
>like a bnc connector but is smaller.
??? I don't recall having encountered a "mini" BNC connector.
The next size down in my experience is the SMA series devices
which are quite common in the antenna systems for WiFi networks
etc.
> I didn't have a lot of time to dig
>into the issue, I just took it at face value he needed the manual. I
>tried looking on your website, I would get the following error on some
>of your downloadable files.
>
>ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
>/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Hmmmm . . . I've had a couple of complaints about
that recently. I don't know what's changed. I downloaded
both of those manuals successfully to my computer in
Wichita before I posted the links. Just for grins, I
reset all the permissions on the entire suite of files
in that folder along with the folder itself.
It might be a problem with how your email hands off
the URL to your browser. The link wasn't "folded"
on your e-mail page, was it? Here's some tiny-URL
links. Try again.
http://tinyurl.com/yl8g2sg
http://tinyurl.com/yjbuo43
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
Bump: Please read this link regarding this product suitability for use with HID
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275212#275212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
Bob,
I was able to access the links you sent in this email and the previous
email. However when I try to access some of your sections on your
website ( the radio pinout guide, reference documents, and FAQ's,) I
still get the following message.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Apache/2.0.52 Server at www.matronics.com Port 80
All of the other sections I can access. At least the ones I have tried
(I tried all of them listed in the Reference section )
I will talk to my friend and see if I can clarify his question.
Thanks for your time.
Dave
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Date: Sat, November 28, 2009 10:01 am
At 09:45 AM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
Bob,
You are probably correct. He was curious about a connector that looks
like a bnc connector but is smaller.
??? I don't recall having encountered a "mini" BNC connector.
The next size down in my experience is the SMA series devices
which are quite common in the antenna systems for WiFi networks
etc.
I didn't have a lot of time to dig
into the issue, I just took it at face value he needed the manual. I
tried looking on your website, I would get the following error on some
of your downloadable files.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Hmmmm . . . I've had a couple of complaints about
that recently. I don't know what's changed. I downloaded
both of those manuals successfully to my computer in
Wichita before I posted the links. Just for grins, I
reset all the permissions on the entire suite of files
in that folder along with the folder itself.
It might be a problem with how your email hands off
the URL to your browser. The link wasn't "folded"
on your e-mail page, was it? Here's some tiny-URL
links. Try again.
http://tinyurl.com/yl8g2sg
http://tinyurl.com/yjbuo43
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "AKflyers" <mycherokee(at)googleam.com> |
Uh, you haven't seen the latest on the MaxPulse perhaps. It has a user adjustable
time delay for full on prior to pulsing - from 0 to 60 seconds.
So I'm not sure what you mean here.
--------
Yes, that little brown spot in the picture is a bear.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275219#275219
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Here are some pics of the new cable. The hand crimping tool they used had was like
a bolt cutter, with long handles. The indentation left was roughly a 3/16"
cube.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275221#275221
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/4awg_soldered_175.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hws_crimped_4_125.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Can a 4awg cable be too short? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
last pic
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275222#275222
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_short_4awg_in_place_115.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
AKflyers wrote:
> Uh, you haven't seen the latest on the MaxPulse perhaps. It has a user adjustable
time delay for full on prior to pulsing - from 0 to 60 seconds.
> So I'm not sure what you mean here.
I thought you were selling the old inventory (on sale) before the new stuff (with
new features) and higher prices. Also most of the pulse rates are not compatible
with HID either, only the fastest one is.
That is very interesting when everyone involved with that product was insisting
that 5 seconds was plenty for all applications. That is until a couple of weeks
ago. I wonder what changed their minds ??
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275224#275224
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "AKflyers" <mycherokee(at)googleam.com> |
Don't know about the things you mention. I'm not selling anything. I believe
you are. I submitted information only. I assume equipment changes, most times
are made for the good. Not using the forum and mailing lists to promote a product,
unlike some.
--------
Yes, that little brown spot in the picture is a bear.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275229#275229
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
Bob,
The full URLs in your previous e-mail and the tinyurIs in the most
recent
e-mail all worked for me - Win XP/MS Outlook/IE8
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual
At 09:45 AM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
Bob,
You are probably correct. He was curious about a connector that looks
like a bnc connector but is smaller.
??? I don't recall having encountered a "mini" BNC connector.
The next size down in my experience is the SMA series devices
which are quite common in the antenna systems for WiFi networks
etc.
I didn't have a lot of time to dig
into the issue, I just took it at face value he needed the manual. I
tried looking on your website, I would get the following error on some
of your downloadable files.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Hmmmm . . . I've had a couple of complaints about
that recently. I don't know what's changed. I downloaded
both of those manuals successfully to my computer in
Wichita before I posted the links. Just for grins, I
reset all the permissions on the entire suite of files
in that folder along with the folder itself.
It might be a problem with how your email hands off
the URL to your browser. The link wasn't "folded"
on your e-mail page, was it? Here's some tiny-URL
links. Try again.
<http://tinyurl.com/yl8g2sg> http://tinyurl.com/yl8g2sg
http://tinyurl.com/yjbuo43
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
I was able to access several of the radio pinouts, reference documents and
the FAQs. Win XP/ IE8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual
Bob,
I was able to access the links you sent in this email and the previous
email. However when I try to access some of your sections on your website (
the radio pinout guide, reference documents, and FAQ's,) I still get the
following message.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server. Apache/2.0.52 Server at
www.matronics.com Port 80
All of the other sections I can access. At least the ones I have tried (I
tried all of them listed in the Reference section )
I will talk to my friend and see if I can clarify his question.
Thanks for your time.
Dave
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Date: Sat, November 28, 2009 10:01 am
At 09:45 AM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
Bob,
You are probably correct. He was curious about a connector that looks
like a bnc connector but is smaller.
??? I don't recall having encountered a "mini" BNC connector.
The next size down in my experience is the SMA series devices
which are quite common in the antenna systems for WiFi networks
etc.
I didn't have a lot of time to dig
into the issue, I just took it at face value he needed the manual. I
tried looking on your website, I would get the following error on some of
your downloadable files.
ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access
/aeroelectric/Installation_Data/on this server.
Hmmmm . . . I've had a couple of complaints about
that recently. I don't know what's changed. I downloaded
both of those manuals successfully to my computer in
Wichita before I posted the links. Just for grins, I
reset all the permissions on the entire suite of files
in that folder along with the folder itself.
It might be a problem with how your email hands off
the URL to your browser. The link wasn't "folded"
on your e-mail page, was it? Here's some tiny-URL
links. Try again.
http://tinyurl.com/yl8g2sg
http://tinyurl.com/yjbuo43
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
AKflyers wrote:
> Don't know about the things you mention. I'm not selling anything. I believe
you are. I submitted information only. I assume equipment changes, most times
are made for the good. Not using the forum and mailing lists to promote a
product, unlike some.
Sure you are "selling" something, your ideas and opinions. You are also helping
a "friend" sell their products by promoting them. You may not get any financial
compensation, but you are motivated by something.
I came on here to counter some less than complete information on HID technology.
Also, to inform users of the limitations of some products for suitability with
HID. Look at my posts again, they are all based on industry accepted facts
regarding HID.
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275233#275233
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability for |
HID
| From: | "AKflyers" <mycherokee(at)googleam.com> |
Wow, I give up. A "friend"?? You win. I'm not going to keep this thread going
to prove some point. I have read your posts and they are very informative,
enlightening and self promoting. You are very knowledgeable about HID things.
Thanks for that. I think I am going with LoPresti's information.
--------
Yes, that little brown spot in the picture is a bear.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275235#275235
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MaxPulse warm-up and pulse rates suitability |
for HID
At 03:56 PM 11/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>AKflyers wrote:
> > Don't know about the things you mention. I'm not selling
> anything. I believe you are. I submitted information only. I
> assume equipment changes, most times are made for the good. Not
> using the forum and mailing lists to promote a product, unlike some.
While the Lists were created for the sharing of
knowledge and understanding, it's also appropriate
for entrepreneurs to make others aware of their
goods and services of interest to the OBAM aviation
community.
This is not advertising, it's awareness enhancement.
The products I make available are supported with detailed
information on how they work, when they are applicable
to a task, and honorably compared with similar products.
In some cases, I've supplied schematics, bills of materials
and even etched circuit boards for those disposed to
slinging a little solder.
It'a also appropriate for List members to exchange
information on the latest and greatest of new products
offered by folks who are not members of a Matronics
list.
Advertisement is an intrusion upon your intellectual
space. Sharing of knowledge and understanding about
ingredients that go into various recipes for success
can only help us improve upon the-best-we-know-how-
to-do. The fact that some folks exchange $time$
in the form of conversation, hardware or even a sum
of cash seems irrelevant in this, the most free of
all aviation markplaces.
Let's hang onto those cabbages and tomatoes. Save
them for the first person who posts a pop-up to
sell Amway or See-Far sunglasses!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
Tony,
Thanks for the info. I fired up my dell laptop XP with SP3 and I was
also able to access the files.
Went over to the Imac running firefox and still had the same issue.
Dave
I was able to access several of the radio pinouts, reference documents
and
the FAQs. Win XP/ IE8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: KX 170B Installation manual |
| From: | "Colm O'Reilly" <colm.oreilly(at)gmail.com> |
All links worked fine on my Imac with Safari.
On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Dave wrote:
>
>
> Tony,
>
>
> Thanks for the info. I fired up my dell laptop XP with SP3 and I was
> also able to access the files.
> Went over to the Imac running firefox and still had the same issue.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> I was able to access several of the radio pinouts, reference documents
> and
> the FAQs. Win XP/ IE8
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%... |
Dear Listers,
This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you
like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience,
please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the
Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with
you as well.
Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--------------------------- Member Feedback ----------------------------
ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental
Aircraft subculture.
John G
Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch
of list members. Great videos and no SPAM.
Paul C
It has been a valuable tool.
Troy M
..appreciate the site as much as ever.
Larry M
By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great
advice, made friends, and saved money!
Craig W
Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as
far as fabrication of electrical systems. However,
selectively reading various topics is still very valuable
and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous
subscriber.
Larry F
Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning
to build my RV-10!
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There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list,
and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of
trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good
entertainment, too.
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Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building.
Bob S
I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very
helpful.
Vaughn T
Good service to sport aviation!!
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Awesome Service you provide for us!
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My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be
close without the [this] group.
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Great list.
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I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list.
Peter M
Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information.
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Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are
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Thanks for this valuable resource to our community.
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The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net.
John B
Thanks again for providing another year of your useful
List service.
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Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually
learn something.
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You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity
and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety.
Richard G
The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in
building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I
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The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep
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Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me.
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ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters...
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You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run
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The Universe is a better place because of you.
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[The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and
make my systems better. I continue to get and give
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Ralph C
..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration
courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!!
Rob B
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much useful lists!
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George R
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provide this valuable source of information to us
individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people
than you realize.
Ross H
Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete
and flying I still get a wealth of information from all
the messages.
Marcus C
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finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had
discovered you sooner.
Jack B
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common minded folks to exchange technical and other
information.
George H
..great service that you provide.
David W
..still appreciate your list.
Alain L
[The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has
helped me enormously in my project.
William B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Babb" <tonybabb(at)alejandra.net> |
| Subject: | KX 170B Installation manual |
I was able to open several of the radio pinout docs, reference docs and the
FAQs using Win XP/ Firefox 3.5.5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Colm
O'Reilly
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX 170B Installation manual
-->
All links worked fine on my Imac with Safari.
On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Dave wrote:
>
>
> Tony,
>
>
> Thanks for the info. I fired up my dell laptop XP with SP3 and I was
> also able to access the files. Went over to the Imac running firefox
> and still had the same issue.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> I was able to access several of the radio pinouts, reference documents
> and the FAQs. Win XP/ IE8
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | KX170/175 Installation Manual |
A List member was kind enough to help us expand our
library of King Radio support documents. The KX170/175
install manual has been posted at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX_170B_175B-Install_Manual.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Coax connectors for KI214 |
>
>I need to do a little more research but the original question was about
>the coax from the KI-214 to the glideslope antenna not the connection to
>the KX 170B. He thought that the KX 170 B manual would have the info he
>needed. He hasn't seen this type of connector before and didn't know
>how to connect it to the coax.
I've found a picture of the thing . . .
Emacs!
I vaguely remember seeing these on some installed equipment.
I think these are a Kings Connectors KM59-13. I don't
recall seeing these very often in the coax cable version
but they're popular now for a bunch of fiber-optic
cables.
I've not yet chased down the installation specifics
but I'll bet they're VERY close to the venerable
solder-n-clampnut versions of the BNC connector.
http://www.amphenolrf.com/pdf/299.pdf
Perhaps someone on the List can enlighten us
further. I'll keep looking.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dave.gribble(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Coax connectors for KI214 |
That same connector is on the back of a King KI-214 VOR/LOC/Glideslope indicator.
In that application it carries the 350 MHz Glideslope signal from the antenna
(or diplexer), since the receiver is located in the indicator.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> >
> >I need to do a little more research but the original question was about
> >the coax from the KI-214 to the glideslope antenna not the connection to
> >the KX 170B. He thought that the KX 170 B manual would have the info he
> >needed. He hasn't seen this type of connector before and didn't know
> >how to connect it to the coax.
>
> I've found a picture of the thing . . .
>
> Emacs!
>
>
> I vaguely remember seeing these on some installed equipment.
> I think these are a Kings Connectors KM59-13. I don't
> recall seeing these very often in the coax cable version
> but they're popular now for a bunch of fiber-optic
> cables.
>
> I've not yet chased down the installation specifics
> but I'll bet they're VERY close to the venerable
> solder-n-clampnut versions of the BNC connector.
>
> http://www.amphenolrf.com/pdf/299.pdf
>
>
> Perhaps someone on the List can enlighten us
> further. I'll keep looking.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------
> ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
> ( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
> ( tool sharp and available to all our )
> ( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
> ( community. )
> ---------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DeWitt Whittington <dewittw(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | OK, I'm on the edge of donating again this year, Matt |
Hello, Matt,
I've been a user and supporter of your wonderful lists, primarily of
the AeroElectric-List, for years. However, although it has nothing
directly to do with your lists, I must say that as a long time Kitlog
Pro user, I'm still waiting for your promised update to the program.
You bought Kitlog Pro several years ago and more than once indicated
to me that an update was on the way. It would be so nice to have a
number of the not user-friendly features of Kitlog improved as we
have discussed in emails to each other. And I'd especially like
Kitlog to be able to handle more than one builder account in the
Expense Log section. The program already handles multiple builders in
the Construction Log section. I'm sure I'm not the only Kitlog Pro
user who has partners in their project who want to keep their dollar
contributions separate.
OK, now that I've got that off my chest, I'll whiz over and donate
again this year.
Hopefully next Spring we'll fly our Sportsman.
Dee
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
406 N Mulberry St
Richmond, VA 23220-3320
(804) 358-4333 phone and fax
SKYPE: hilltopkid
GlaStar Sportsman 2+2 #7034, reserved N18TA
Eggenfellner E6 Subaru 3.6L with 2.01 redrive
dee.whittington(at)gmail.com
www.glasairaviation.com
www.glastar.org
www.eggenfellneraircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a Icom A210....Thanks
Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275342#275342
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
You need to specify the aircraft. P-51 Mustang? Ultralight? Quickie?
Aluminium?
Sam
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Geoff Heap wrote:
>
> Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a
> Icom A210....Thanks Geoff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275342#275342
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275355#275355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
A quarter-wave ground plane mounted on the belly.
Something like the Comant CI-122.
A fine example listed here:
http://steinair.com/avionics.htm
neal
===
OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
At 03:12 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna
>for a Icom A210....Thanks Geoff
What's your budget for an antenna purchase? What
kind of airplane are you installing it on? Are you
willing to place the antenna for optimum performance
as opposed to least ugly appearance?
The well designed transceiver will function adequately
on about anything from a wet-string to a $2000 shark-fin
with a turbocharged flame job painted on the side of it.
ICom is about as capable as they come for building a radio
that works well. So the suite of antennas available
to you is pretty large. The least expensive antennas
tend to be not very robust mechanically while all
the $high$ products are very rugged but would not
perform so much better that you would notice a difference.
The going rate for a run-of-the-mill, 5-hole mount
vhf comm antenna is about $150. You can build an
antenna for about $15 in materials and a couple hours
fiddling in the shop. Are you installing on a metal
or plastic airplane?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
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( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
At 05:19 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote:
>
>OK its for a Zenith ch701. All aluminum
Mounting on belly or on top behind the
canopy?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Contactor Failure |
Any folks had a contactor failure?
My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
starter solenoid.
I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
starter.
If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds) but
the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was no
other way.
Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor?
Stan Sutterfield
RV-8A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hey where can I get designs for a simple wire VHF ant?
never thought of making mine..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275376#275376
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
| From: | "rckol" <rckol(at)kaehlers.com> |
If I understand your system, you have a circuit from the battery straight to the
starter contactor.
Running the starter contactor in series with the master bus contactor allows you
to kill the starter with the master switch in the event that your starter or
starter contactor decides to run on.
Bob's Z designs typically have this feature.
--------
rck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275377#275377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 07:45 PM 11/29/2009, you wrote:
>Any folks had a contactor failure?
>My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone.
Don't know what you mean by "failure prone".
All parts have service lives. The service
lives of all parts are subject to the stresses
of the installation combined with the effects
of manufacturing variability.
> I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between
> the battery and the starter solenoid.
>I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed
>position) after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty
>contactor installed between the #4 welding cable from the positive
>battery post and the Skytec starter.
Does your starter feature a contactor/solenoid
combination that controls both power to the motor
while extending the pinion gear for engagement?
>If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter
>button to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released
>the starter button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the
>starter button again thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept
>turning. I turned off both batteries and all fuel source. The
>blades had stopped by then (10 seconds) but the starter was still
>engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for wrenches. I had
>to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was no other way.
>Did I design in a fault?
Does your starter current go through the battery
master contactor as depicted on ALL z-figures and
common to ALL type certificated aircraft?
> Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between
> the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some other type of
> disconnect between the battery and the contactor?
Yup, the TC aircraft do it too . . . it's called
the battery master contactor.
As to the original failure. Permanent magnet starters
offer VERY high in-rush currents because the current
limiting characteristics of the series field are not
present. The device selected to actively control
starter current is not up to the task.
I was a participant in the deliberations that set
design goals at B&C some years back when consideration
was given to PM fields. For a several reasons, B&C
stayed with the wound fields. One reason germane to
your experience was the fact that battery internal
impedances were going down while stall currents of
"modern" PM starters was going up. This combination
predicted a potential for increased stress in contact
closing on the starter contactor.
If memory serves me correctly, the Skytec's built in
contactor is probably tailored to this extra stress
but it DOES exhibit inrush current issues of its own.
See . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Suggest you rewire to eliminate the external, intermittant
duty starter contactor. Run your starter current through
the battery master as suggested in the drawings. Buffer
the inrush current to your starter contactor as suggested
in Z-22.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
Your local Ham operator - the older the better
Dick
In a message dated 11/29/2009 8:30:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "chris Sinfield"
Hey where can I get designs for a simple wire VHF ant?
never thought of making mine..
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275376#275376
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its
my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the
Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really
nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now
is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation
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The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Bob.
CH701 all metal airplane. I guess I'd rather build my own and save the money. Where
can I get plans for that? As for location, I hadn't given that too much thought
either yet. Just about all locations are available so far.
At some point I will be installing one other antenna for my transponder.
One on top and one on bottom sound OK? Transponder on the bottom?
......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275471#275471
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
After reviewing the endless promotion of the way it has always been done, please
re-read the AeroElectric-Lists posts of October 12-13:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267757
Then--Do it the way the manufacturer suggests. Hey, there's a radical
idea!
Eric's five point plan for elimination contactor failure:
1) Don't use Type-70 contactors for critical tasks.
2) Don't use diodes for coil suppression duty. Use bi-directional Zeners.
3) Follow the manufacturers' suggestions.
4) Ignore the man behind the curtain.
5) Examine carefully the ideas of anybody who claims he can't possibly be wrong.
"Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to
one's self-esteem.That is why young children, before they are aware of their
own self-importance, learn so easily; and why older persons, especially if vain
or important, cannot learn at all."
-Thomas Szasz
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275476#275476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Contactor Failure |
11/30/2009
Hello Stan, You wrote:
1)"Any folks had a contactor failure?"
Not on my airplane, but as an A&P I am aware of several contactor failures.
Two failure modes that I have personally been involved in are: a) Fine
contactor coil wire fractures because of vibration. b) Main current transfer
bar inside the contactor gets eaten away and no longer makes contact.
Your contactor failure sounds like a third failure mode -- a welded main
current transfer bar because of extremely high current transfer. If you
still have the contactor why not cut it open to confirm?
2) "My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone."
"failure prone" is a very unquantifiable term, but they do definitely fail.
That is why you need a plan B to permit recovery regardless of the mode of
contactor failure.
3) "Did I design in a fault?"
Yes.
4) "Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a contactor between the
hot battery and the starter?"
No, they are built with two contactors between the hot battery and the
starter. A main battery contactor (continuous use type) and a starter
contactor (intermittent use type).
Many starters now days have a contactor / solenoid as part of the starter
itself for the purpose of moving the pinion gear into engagement. (This
eliminates the old Bendix type mechanical starter engagement method.)
That is why when discussing this subject the term "starter contactor" can
lead to some confusion unless the context makes it very clear which one of
the two "starter contactors" one is referring to.
5) "Should I have some other type of disconnect between the battery and the
contactor?"
Yes.
6) "I understood that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the
battery and the
starter solenoid."
Inserting only one contactor in this manner leaves you susceptible to the
welded main bar transfer failure. A separate main battery contactor that in
turn feeds the starter contactor would leave you a means of stopping current
flow to the starter contactor in the case of this type of failure mode.
A separate battery fed essential or endurance bus would leave you a means of
recovery if you suffer either a fine coil wire failure or an eaten away main
transfer bar failure in your battery contactor while flying.
If your starter contactor suffers from either a fine wire failure or an
eaten away main transfer bar failure then you should discover this problem
on the ground because the engine won't crank and your recovery is to just
replace the starter contactor.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
From: Speedy11(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure
Any folks had a contactor failure?
My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
starter solenoid.
I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
starter.
If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds)
but
the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was
no
other way.
Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor?
Stan Sutterfield
RV-8A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Bob or anyone. I cannot find a right angle BNC connector for my Icom A210. I know
this sounds easy but let me explain. I have a Fuel Header tank behind my panel,
against the firewall. When my radio is mounted there is only about 1-1 space
at the rear of the radio available for the Coax cable so I need a Right angle
BNC connector. NOTE I did not say adaptor. The Radio needs a Male PUSH/PULL
connector. Not the twist on twist off. (Those are easy to find). With the radio
came a straight BNC connector. I can push that in and add an adaptor but the
combined length of the two is too much. What I need is a right angle PUSH/PULL
Male or even a Tee connection Male-female/female. Cruising around the web
I can't seem to find one. Surely they exist? Your assistance would be real nice.....Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275490#275490
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur Radio club for the
formula
and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one,
and
(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
Good Morning Geoff,
Just to complicate things a bit, let's think about drag.
Most speed gurus will tell us that the airflow around the majority of our
airframes meets its peak speed while traveling over the top of the
fuselage. That being said, it is nice to impede that airflow as little as possible.
We are also told that the further aft any obstacle is placed, the less
drag it will develop. Once again, the bottom of most of our airplanes has the
most disturbed air so an additional disturbance will have a lower increase
in drag down there than it would when mounted on top. A round object has a
lot more drag than one that is streamlined. That is why the more expensive
antennas are streamlined.
Back in my glider flying days, we often used antennas that we stuck through
a hole in the bottom of the sailplanes when we wanted to use the radio.
Sort of a retractable antenna thing. We also tended to leave the radio turned
off when not in use so as to save the battery power. Obviously, we used
those wound style fiberglass antennas that did not require a ground plane.
Couldn't have been very efficient, but they did serve our purpose.
A bottom mounted antenna works great when airborne, but suffers in range
when on the ground. It is not unusual to be able to raise a nearby RCO with a
top mounted antenna when a bottom mounted one will not work. There are
also problems that occur when you are parked or taxiing over steel bar
re-enforced concrete surfaces.
As to the transponder antenna. I have never seen one mounted anywhere but
on the belly, but I don't know why. I do know that I have personally broken
several of the small wire types when cleaning the belly. Because of that, I
have bitten the bullet and now install only those horribly expensive
little shark fin antennas for the transponder and DME.
Adding to all those difficulties is the separation distance that all radio
antenna manufacturers tell us we need. If we space them as far apart and as
far from vertical components of the aircraft as are suggested by the
antenna manufacturers, we would need a homebuilt the size of a 747.
So I guess what I am really saying is: Give it a shot and see what happens.
If you don't like the result, try something else.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 11/30/2009 6:59:51 A.M. Central Standard Time,
stol10(at)comcast.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap"
Bob.
CH701 all metal airplane. I guess I'd rather build my own and save the
money. Where can I get plans for that? As for location, I hadn't given that
too much thought either yet. Just about all locations are available so far.
At some point I will be installing one other antenna for my transponder.
One on top and one on bottom sound OK? Transponder on the bottom?
......Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275471#275471
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 07:57 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>After reviewing the endless promotion of the way it has always been
>done, please re-read the AeroElectric-Lists posts of October 12-13:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267757
>
>Then--Do it the way the manufacturer suggests. Hey, there's a radical
>idea!
>
>Eric's five point plan for elimination contactor failure:
>
>1) Don't use Type-70 contactors for critical tasks.
The failed contactor wasn't a type-70.
>2) Don't use diodes for coil suppression duty. Use bi-directional Zeners.
How is it that you deduce a plain diode suppression
system as a contributing cause for the failure
being discussed? I hypothesized a cause for
the failure based on 40+ years observation/
experience with the PM motors in general and PM
starters in particular. Do you have an alternative
hypothesis? I'd be pleased to know it.
>3) Follow the manufacturers' suggestions.
Which suggestions, if any, were being ignored
in the instance before us?
>
>4) Ignore the man behind the curtain.
I'm not behind any curtain. Every word I've ever
written has been archived and made available for
critical review by anyone having an interest.
>5) Examine carefully the ideas of anybody who claims he can't
>possibly be wrong.
Eric, you've been invited numerous times to offer
alternative recipes for success supported by analysis
of simple-ideas and underlying physics. You have yet
to offer anything beyond parroting bad articles
with mis-applied data and/or facts taken out of context.
I claim nothing about the infallibility of simple-
ideas or recipes for success offered in my writing.
Nobody would be more pleased than I to know of any
errors of fact or logic. If you have a point of
physics and/or proven practice for us to examine,
please make it.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 09:11 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob or anyone. I cannot find a right angle BNC
>connector for my Icom A210. I know this sounds
>easy but let me explain. I have a Fuel Header
>tank behind my panel, against the firewall. When
>my radio is mounted there is only about
>1-1 space at the rear of the radio
>available for the Coax cable so I need a Right
>angle BNC connector. NOTE I did not say adaptor.
>The Radio needs a Male PUSH/PULL connector. Not
>the twist on twist off. (Those are easy to
>find). With the radio came a straight BNC
>connector. I can push that in and add an adaptor
>but the combined length of the two is too much.
>What I need is a right angle PUSH/PULL Male or
>even a Tee connection Male-female/female.
>Cruising around the web I can't seem to find
>one. Surely they exist? Your assistance would be real nice.....Geoff
The connector your looking for is:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/TED_9-30-10_A.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/Ted_9-30-10.jpg
Did a search on TED, "9-30-10", and connector and got 24,000 hits.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
| From: | "PaulR" <prose(at)panhandle.rr.com> |
Bob,
Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to replace the
one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a crimp on than a solder connection.
Thanks
Paul
--------
Paul Rose
N417PR (res)
RV-9A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275511#275511
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello!
Got a couple questions about lamp wiring. I bought a couple 12 volt LED lamps from
Radioshack, #272-345 the other day. The pic below is from their site. My terminals
have a couple tiny solder tabs instead of the wires shown.
The lamp needs to be inserted from the front of the panel, with the lone locknut
coming in from behind. So if I solder the tabs to the wires, I'll have to cut
them to take the lamp out. I understand it would be good to place a rectifying
diode across the leads in spike catcher fashion. $.85 for the lamp and $.60
for the diode. Think I might be able to afford a new one if I need to replace
it.
I soldered on and heat shrunk a couple 3" leads to these and figure I'll solder
or butt splice them along with the diode leads to the supply and ground leads
of my panel. Unless there's a niftier way, I figure putting in male and femal
fastons is overkill, adding another 10 minutes of construction time, 0.1 oz
of weight, and $.40 of my hard earned cash. But I'm curious if there's an easier
way for something like this where it really would be nice to have unpluggability.
After I soldered leads to both little LED lamps it occurred to me that polarity
might be an issue. Oh, yeah, the 'D' in LED! I read that hooked up one way there
would be no light. The lamp solder tabs are covered up with solder and heat
shrink now, but as far as I recall, they looked identical to each other. I hooked
up the leads to my 12V battery and the light worked. Also worked with the
leads reversed, which confuses me.
I also flipped my Flukometer to diode mode. It measured 0.016V positive and zero
with the leads reversed. Just for kicks, I did the same with the incandescent
lamp and it measured 0.015V in both directions.
I had wired that little yellow incandescent lamp provided with the B&C alternator
disconnect relay kit the same way, soldering the tabs to short leads and putting
on heat shrink. This lamp also worked regardless of lead orientation, which
was what I thought should happen.
So it looks like I don't need to pay any attention to the polarity of either of
these types of lamps. Is that right?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275516#275516
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/6a_50v_radioshack_diode_253.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/radioshack_led_lamp_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom 210 antenna suggestion |
| From: | "gmcjetpilot" <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Geoff Heap wrote:
> Can I get any suggestions from satisfied customers for an antenna for a Icom
A210....Thanks Geoff
Your radio has nothing to do with it, it is a VHF com.
I did not read all the responses but in general you have two choices, Fiberglas
and stainless steel. From there you can go with a straight (but angled back)
or a bent whip, 90 degrees or 45 degrees are typical,
The length of ALL VHF com antennas for GA use are in the 20" ballpark total length
tape measure length, regardless if it is bent or straight. The exception is
high speed jet aircraft, which use blade type antennas, forget that, unless
you are doing plus 250 kts.
Than the last factor is mounting. There really is only one mount with three or
four bolt (screw) pattern, which has a BNC jack to attach your feed-line (coaxial).
So far so good. There is a el-cheep-o version which was standard in the
50's and you can still buy it new today, they are cheaper and that is the single
hole, bushing mount. It is terminated with two spade lugs and screws, nuts
and washers. OK. Some people swear by them....
If I was you, I'd spend the $100-$150 and get a good whip with a base (3 bolt or
4) and BNC connector. I did get two nice whips from eBay a few years ago for
cheap... but I lucked out. There are only two brands that come to mind, just
check Spruce for pictures and ideas. DON'T GO CHEAP HERE.... get good coaxial.
You may want some one to make you some RG400 cable with BNC connectors.
Personally for me RG58 A/U or LMR195 is fine, especially for the short runs in
GA aircraft. LMR195 is a modern RG58 with slightly better specs. RG400 is the
king of small coaxial but needs the right kind of BNC connector and crimp tool
(not cheap). I'm all set up to make RG58 A/U or LMR195 cables, I have a roll
of it, connectors and a very expensive AMP tool die to make cables for myself.
You DO WANT stranded center conductor NOT solid. The "A" in RG58 A/U means stranded.
The coaxial and antenna is 90% of the radio.
Good Luck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275517#275517
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,
7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery
to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
is 10 feet from behind my seat.
B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
Consider one of the John Deere tractor regulators
like the AM101406. These are heavy duty critters with
hefty heat sinks.
http://tinyurl.com/yarwkv3
Bob . . .
Would you recommend this JD regulator over the generic Ford regulator? Are
they pin compatable?
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have. If I now connect
a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit into my panel. I need
a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can slide my radio into place, but
only just. Go to the link below and see the fourth picture. If that tee connector
was a PUSH/PULL male instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
http://www.youravcablestore.com/rca-to-bnc-adapter.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275522#275522
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/02047_s_148.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil Clayton <harvey4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tracking a high resistance joint |
My alternator is putting out 14+ volts but I'm only seeing low 13's
at the panel bus, suggesting a high resistance joint somewhere on the
way to the panel.
Any ideas on how to diagnose the bad joint would be appreciated. My
limited knowledge of Ohm's law says that the resistance drop across
the bad joint will be too tiny to detect with a standard meter and I
probably won't find it that way.
Thanks for ideas.
Neil C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <berkut13(at)berkut13.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
As Bob's picture shows, the 9-30-10 IS a 90-degree connector - coax comes
out the small opening shown at the top and that would be 90-degrees from the
connector that mates with the radio. What you are describing doesn't add
up. I have the Icom A200 installed (same tray).
Are you using the radio mounting tray? If so, then it has one of these
connectors natively installed in the tray and it IS already 90-degree. If
you have the tray installed in the panel, and the panel on the plane, that
is as far forward at it gets. Sliding the radio into the tray changes
nothing dimensionally.
Are you describing "sliding" the mounting tray into position in the panel?
If you are, I think you are going to have to "make" some room on that header
tank, re-position the radio tray, or change to a shorter radio.
A picture or two here might help us all understand what your specific
problem is.
James Redmon
Berkut #013/Race 13
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR
>
> Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have. If I
> now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit into my
> panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can slide my
> radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and see the fourth
> picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male instead of a Twist
> on/off male it would work.
> http://www.youravcablestore.com/rca-to-bnc-adapter.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
At 09:15 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur
>Radio club for the formula and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
>(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one, and
>(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
>
All of which is dead-on accurate. I've constructed several
DIY comm antennas with the idea of publishing a how-to article.
Haven't produced a recipe-for-success that I'm ready to
offer.
The EASY part about building an antenna is cutting off a
chunk of material the optimal length to become an efficient
antenna. The not-so-easy part is mounting the antenna
to the airplane such that it doesn't twist in the hole,
maintains low resistance contact with coax center conductor,
good connection with airframe as a grounding surface,
is fabricated in a manner that will withstand years
of inattention and hours of buffeting in hurricane force winds.
Emacs!
Here's a snapshot from the 'Connection (Figure 13-8) that
illustrates some of the $low$ antennas that were popular
about the same time the Narco "coffegrinder" radio was
a radio of choice in SE light aircraft.
Threaded rods, ceramic feed-through insulators and
ordinary PIDG terminals did the job for us then . . .
sorta. Cessna used to install similar antennas in
production. If you don't mind replacing the occasional
broken rod, refurbishing corroded terminations, suffering
leaks in the skin, etc. etc. This approach will perform
ELECTRICALLY as well as anything you can buy today.
If any of the List members have devised a means by which
more robust antennas have been crafted, can you share it
with us? In the mean time, I'll see about cleaning up
some ideas I've been exploring and getting them published.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 11:17 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to
>replace the one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a
>crimp on than a solder connection.
>
>Thanks
Not that I'm aware of. I think TED created that connector
for King radio way back when and it sorta grew on the rest
of the industry. It hasn't been a fast mover for anything
other than aircraft. They're not hard to solder ESPECIALLY
if you're using modern coax with hi-temp insulation. I.e.
RG400 or equal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks James. I just spoke to support at Iacom. I was directed to the installation
guide for the a200. This guide uses the fitting that Bob suggested. However,
they showed how to solder the connector, which made clear to me the fact that
the small opening IS the 90 connection. I thought that Bob was offering me
another straight connector. For the A210, IACOM switched from the part that you
have James to the straight one that I have. Problem solved now. Thanks to allGeoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275542#275542
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 12:09 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have.
>If I now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit
>into my panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can
>slide my radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and
>see the fourth picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male
>instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
Are you talking about THIS guy?
Emacs!
I can't imagine that this style of connection is any part of
an Icom product. The male end of this adapter is an RCA Audio
connector not often used at RF by anyone. My copy of the Icom
install manual has this image:
Emacs!
Icom appears to have acquired a STRAIGHT version of the TED
connector with a BNC female termination on it. This would
nicely accommodate both aircraft and ground/portable ops
with any combination of BNC adapters and rubber-duck antennas.
The Icom supplied connector is not one I've seen before. TED
may even have built the thing. The TED connector I suggested
will, I believe, replace the BNC adapter described above
and allow you to attach the feedline coax directly
to the tray connector. Alternatively you can install a short
pigtail of RG400 on the tray connector with a cable female
on the other end so that you're transition to the world
of BNC connectors is preserved.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Bob. Your first "take" on my problem was correct. I just didn't realise that the
opening on the side was for the coax to be inserted. Please see my post on the
other thread and Thanks...Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275547#275547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RE Contactor Failure |
I failed a battery contactor during my build up process about a year ago.
The plane had not flown and the starter never used. I went to "light up the
panel" for about the 20th demo and it didn't pull in. B&C replaced the
contactor at no cost. I still have the contactor, intending to do an autopsy
sometime.
Marty in Brentwood TN
From: Speedy11(at)aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Contactor Failure
Any folks had a contactor failure?
My understanding was that contactors are not failure prone. I understood
that was the reasoning behind inserting one between the battery and the
starter solenoid.
I had one fail the other day (actually it stuck in the closed position)
after 40 hours of use. It was an intermittent duty contactor installed
between the #4 welding cable from the positive battery post and the Skytec
starter.
If my engine doesn't start on the third blade, I release the starter button
to check what I've missed and try it again. When I released the starter
button, the prop kept turning. I quickly hit the starter button again
thinking it might have stuck. The blades kept turning. I turned off both
batteries and all fuel source. The blades had stopped by then (10 seconds)
but
the starter was still engaged. Set the brake and ran to the hangar for
wrenches. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter. There was
no
other way.
Did I design in a fault? Aren't most custom-built airplanes built with a
contactor between the hot battery and the starter? Should I have some
other type of disconnect between the battery and the contactor? Stan
Sutterfield RV-8A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 12:09 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob. This is the straight PUSH/PULL that I said that I already have.
>If I now connect a right angle adapter to it, its too long to fit
>into my panel. I need a 90 degree version of the 9-30-10. Then I can
>slide my radio into place, but only just. Go to the link below and
>see the fourth picture. If that tee connector was a PUSH/PULL male
>instead of a Twist on/off male it would work.
Are you talking about THIS guy?
Emacs!
I can't imagine that this style of connection is any part of
an Icom product. The male end of this adapter is an RCA Audio
connector not often used at RF by anyone. My copy of the Icom
install manual has this image:
Emacs!
Icom appears to have acquired a STRAIGHT version of the TED
connector with a BNC female termination on it. This would
nicely accommodate both aircraft and ground/portable ops
with any combination of BNC adapters and rubber-duck antennas.
The Icom supplied connector is not one I've seen before. TED
may even have built the thing. The TED connector I suggested
will, I believe, replace the BNC adapter described above
and allow you to attach the feedline coax directly
to the tray connector. Alternatively you can install a short
pigtail of RG400 on the tray connector with a cable female
on the other end so that you're transition to the world
of BNC connectors is preserved.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING FOR RIGHT ANGLE BNC CONNECTOR |
At 11:17 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Is it possible to find one of these that is a crimp on? I need to
>replace the one on the back of my GTX-327 and I'd rather have a
>crimp on than a solder connection.
>
>Thanks
Not that I'm aware of. I think TED created that connector
for King radio way back when and it sorta grew on the rest
of the industry. It hasn't been a fast mover for anything
other than aircraft. They're not hard to solder ESPECIALLY
if you're using modern coax with hi-temp insulation. I.e.
RG400 or equal.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tracking a high resistance joint |
At 12:15 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>My alternator is putting out 14+ volts but I'm only seeing low 13's
>at the panel bus, suggesting a high resistance joint somewhere on
>the way to the panel.
>Any ideas on how to diagnose the bad joint would be appreciated. My
>limited knowledge of Ohm's law says that the resistance drop across
>the bad joint will be too tiny to detect with a standard meter and I
>probably won't find it that way.
You're right, attempting to measure very small
resistances with the commercial off the shelf
multimeter is not in the cards.
However, the same instrument can measure VOLTAGES
and in particular, DIFFERENCE voltages. Hook your
(+) meter lead to the alternator b-terminal. Fire
up the engine. Turn lots of stuff ON and then probe
the pathway between b-terminal and the bus with the
(-) lead of your voltmeter.
If it's not practical to do this with the engine
running, then temporarily hook a charged AGM battery
from b-terminal to ground. Perhaps you can fabricate
a jumper to run from your hot side of the battery
contactor over to the b-lead. Do this with a piece
of 10AWG or larger and include a series fuse of 30A
at the battery end. . . . make the battery pretend to be
an alternator. Leave the battery master OFF, turn
on lots of stuff and then probe the path from alternator
b-lead to the bus.
In big airplanes, we do this with a constant current
power supply set up to deliver 30 or so amps over the
power path to be explored. I do have a whippy micro-
ohmmeter but prefer the constant current technique
and voltmeter.
When you have access to the power supply, the rest
of the airplane can be OFF while the survey is being
conducted.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOM 210 antenna suggestion |
At 09:15 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>(1) See any aged member of your local Amateur
>Radio club for the formula and shape of a =BC-wave vertical,
>(2) Invite him to see your project and he might just make you one, and
>(3) Stick it on top for better coverage of Ground Control at some
airports.
>
All of which is dead-on accurate. I've constructed several
DIY comm antennas with the idea of publishing a how-to article.
Haven't produced a recipe-for-success that I'm ready to
offer.
The EASY part about building an antenna is cutting off a
chunk of material the optimal length to become an efficient
antenna. The not-so-easy part is mounting the antenna
to the airplane such that it doesn't twist in the hole,
maintains low resistance contact with coax center conductor,
good connection with airframe as a grounding surface,
is fabricated in a manner that will withstand years
of inattention and hours of buffeting in hurricane force winds.
Emacs!
Here's a snapshot from the 'Connection (Figure 13-8) that
illustrates some of the $low$ antennas that were popular
about the same time the Narco "coffegrinder" radio was
a radio of choice in SE light aircraft.
Threaded rods, ceramic feed-through insulators and
ordinary PIDG terminals did the job for us then . . .
sorta. Cessna used to install similar antennas in
production. If you don't mind replacing the occasional
broken rod, refurbishing corroded terminations, suffering
leaks in the skin, etc. etc. This approach will perform
ELECTRICALLY as well as anything you can buy today.
If any of the List members have devised a means by which
more robust antennas have been crafted, can you share it
with us? In the mean time, I'll see about cleaning up
some ideas I've been exploring and getting them published.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Did you see the link to "outline drawing" on the page that describes this battery?
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/bc102-1.pdf
It says they are 3/16" male fastons on this battery.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275573#275573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxillary Battery Installation... |
At 11:45 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,
>7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
>used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
>
>What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery
>to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
>normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
>is 10 feet from behind my seat.
Z-30 is suggested for batteries capable of assisting
with getting the engine started. The 7.2 a.h. battery
can't help with cranking.
Z-35 shows lighter wiring and hardware for small aux
batteries.
>B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
>cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
AGM batteries don't need a battery box. They're
spill-proof. Containing escaping liquid and venting
copious out-gassing is the only reason we put boxes
around batteries in the first place. AGM/RG batteries
can strap down in a simple tray. You don't need a
contactor, just a 30A plastic relay as described in
Z-30. What is the 10-foot run about? Your aux battery
should be right next to the main battery as should the
aux battery fuse block. Wires from the fuse block can
be any necessary length.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Powermate V's B&C LR3C-14 |
At 11:55 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
> Consider one of the John Deere tractor regulators
> like the AM101406. These are heavy duty critters with
> hefty heat sinks.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yarwkv3
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>Would you recommend this JD regulator over the generic Ford
>regulator? Are they pin compatable?
The "Generic Ford Regulator" is for wound field
alternators. The JD RECTIFIER/REGULATOR is for
permanent magnet alternators.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE Contactor Failure |
At 06:27 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I failed a battery contactor during my build up process about a year ago.
>The plane had not flown and the starter never used. I went to "light up the
>panel" for about the 20th demo and it didn't pull in. B&C replaced the
>contactor at no cost. I still have the contactor, intending to do an autopsy
>sometime.
I'd be pleased to do that for you and report to the
List . . . or in any event, please let us know what
you discover.
I was make privy to an interesting failure in a Type-70
product some time back. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/W-R_RBM_3-Terminal_2s.jpg
. . . seems the solder terminal for the coil wire was
mis-clocked 90 degrees and was arcing against the
moving contact ring when the contactor was energized.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1e.jpg
This contactor was a later manufacturing date and did
not use the same process for bringing coil current out.
The joint is shielded in later production.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1b.jpg
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 07:59 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>I reviewed my wiring diagrams and I did not run my starter current
>through the battery master prior to going to the starter contactor
>and then to the starter solenoid. I will make the correction.
That change would prevent a repeat of your most
recent experience. But if the failed intermittent
duty contactor has been replaced with the same
part, then you may be setting yourself up for
an identical albeit less traumatic repeat.
It may be that your starter contactor is not necessary
at all. Have you considered using only that contactor
which is fitted to the starter? How did you wire the
starter contactor's engagement power terminal?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Thanks Bob and Dan,
My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short of
room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may be
able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep
the wires short.
The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue
with the charge coming off the alternator?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
At 11:45 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery
12V,
>7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not
>used batteries with fast-on tabs before.
>
>What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the
battery
>to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the
>normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run
>is 10 feet from behind my seat.
Z-30 is suggested for batteries capable of assisting
with getting the engine started. The 7.2 a.h. battery
can't help with cranking.
Z-35 shows lighter wiring and hardware for small aux
batteries.
>B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable
>cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.
AGM batteries don't need a battery box. They're
spill-proof. Containing escaping liquid and venting
copious out-gassing is the only reason we put boxes
around batteries in the first place. AGM/RG batteries
can strap down in a simple tray. You don't need a
contactor, just a 30A plastic relay as described in
Z-30. What is the 10-foot run about? Your aux battery
should be right next to the main battery as should the
aux battery fuse block. Wires from the fuse block can
be any necessary length.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
At 09:53 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob and Dan,
>
>My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short of
>room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may be
>able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep
>the wires short.
Hmmmm . . . it would be best to keep the wires
short. What combination of equipment and design
goals are driving the need for an extra battery?
>The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue
>with the charge coming off the alternator?
ALL manufacturers of small batteries would
HOPE that their product never gets charged
above some fairly benign value. Bottom line
is that when installed in most vehicles, there's
no way to practically observe those limits.
As long as the battery is seldom or never asked
to do its job and becomes seriously depleted,
then it will not be subjected to high recharge
rates as a routine matter.
However, hanging little batteries off a robust
bus does raise questions about flight-worthiness.
This battery should be tested for capacity at
every annual.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Thanks Bob,
Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure
reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event
occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a
backup alt which feeds the essential bus.
So, the design goal is that when all else fails, the backup battery
would run one side of the ignition and provide time for me down safely.
I suppose one option would be to isolate the battery from the charging
system, but that would require constant monitoring on my part.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
At 09:53 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob and Dan,
>
>My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short
of
>room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may
be
>able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep
>the wires short.
Hmmmm . . . it would be best to keep the wires
short. What combination of equipment and design
goals are driving the need for an extra battery?
>The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue
>with the charge coming off the alternator?
ALL manufacturers of small batteries would
HOPE that their product never gets charged
above some fairly benign value. Bottom line
is that when installed in most vehicles, there's
no way to practically observe those limits.
As long as the battery is seldom or never asked
to do its job and becomes seriously depleted,
then it will not be subjected to high recharge
rates as a routine matter.
However, hanging little batteries off a robust
bus does raise questions about flight-worthiness.
This battery should be tested for capacity at
every annual.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Bob I just came across your offer of March 2008 for $12.00 coax strippers. I'm
sure they are gone by now. Please suggest a source for these now. The ones I'm
finding are quite expensive.($60 +).Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275611#275611
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
| From: | Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins(at)gmail.com> |
You can get them at Radio Shack.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Geoff Heap wrote:
>
>
> Bob I just came across your offer of March 2008 for $12.00 coax
> strippers. I'm sure they are gone by now. Please suggest a source for the
se
> now. The ones I'm finding are quite expensive.($60 +)=85.Geoff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275611#275611
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Yates" <junk(at)jaredyates.com> |
| Subject: | Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
I believe you can buy some coax cutting dies for the ideal stripmaster, or
you can buy the stripmaster with the coax dies if you don't already have
one. I'm not sure that it would fit your needs, but if it does it would be
much less than $60. The complete tool is available at the big orange where
I live for around $30, and you can get the dies here:
http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide11-24.html
Check and see if that would work. If you already have a stripmaster, then
buying the additional dies would be in your price range.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer
You can get them at Radio Shack.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Geoff Heap wrote:
Bob I just came across your offer of March 2008 for $12.00 coax
strippers. I'm sure they are gone by now. Please suggest a source for these
now. The ones I'm finding are quite expensive.($60 +)..Geoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275611#275611
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
| From: | "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Sam. Found it in stock at my nearest RS for $14.99. Spreading the good news.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275620#275620
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/coaxcablestripper_857.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
The contactor in question is a B&C S702-1. I talked to Bill Bainbridge at
B&C and he suggested trying the contactor again. I will bench test it
(actually already have but will do it again) and rewire according to B&C
diagram with battery switch between battery and starter contactor. That way I
can remove power to the contactor if needed. Right now I have installed a
continuous duty contactor that I had lying on the shelf, but it doesn't fit
into my space as well as the B&C contactor.
I did consider using only the starter-fitted contactor, but was trying to
follow Aeroelectric advice so inserted the additional contactor. It would
take additional wiring effort now to change.
The B&C S702-1 contactor has an internal diode so the starter switch was
connected to the S terminal with no external diode. I did not install a
starter engaged light, but plan to add one as I rewire things.
Rewiring will consist of adding #2 welding cable from the battery to the
battery switch and then to the contactor. Also I'll wire up a starter
engaged light.
Stan Sutterfield
>I reviewed my wiring diagrams and I did not run my starter current
>through the battery master prior to going to the starter contactor
>and then to the starter solenoid. I will make the correction.
That change would prevent a repeat of your most
recent experience. But if the failed intermittent
duty contactor has been replaced with the same
part, then you may be setting yourself up for
an identical albeit less traumatic repeat.
It may be that your starter contactor is not necessary
at all. Have you considered using only that contactor
which is fitted to the starter? How did you wire the
starter contactor's engagement power terminal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
At 10:38 AM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure
>reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event
>occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a
>backup alt which feeds the essential bus.
Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
the engine running and what devices do they service?
>So, the design goal is that when all else fails,
I'll suggest we strive to eliminate "when all else fails"
from the lexicon of airplanespeak. It's a vague, broad brush
admission that we're unsure as to the SYSTEM reliability
of our design. The feel-good response is to stack on
"safety enhancements" that tend to prop up an ill-defined
or mis-understood system.
"All else" says you've suffered MULTIPLE failures of items
necessary for continued flight . . . or perhaps ONE failure
for which no plan-b was crafted.
If you have an SD-8 + main alternator and an RG battery,
perhaps you already have enough stuff to keep the grim-
salvager from getting a call to come clean up the
aluminum mess you made.
Give us a list the electro-whizzies that keep the
engine going along with their current requirements
and we'll go from there.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
At 11:30 AM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob I just came across your offer of March
>2008 for $12.00 coax strippers. I'm sure they
>are gone by now. Please suggest a source for
>these now. The ones I'm finding are quite expensive.($60 +).Geoff
>
>
>Emacs!
At the time I made that offer, I had just evaluated a number
of offerings before settling on this one. I'm NOT saying
that other products are incapable of doing a SATISFACTORY
job. This model was particularly attractive for its
adjustability and the ease with which I could remove a blade
to craft a 2-cut stripper. I have several of these critters
in the toolbox adjusted, sometimes modified and labeled to
specific stripping tasks. The supplier that stocked my
inventory is still selling this model on Ebay. See:
http://tinyurl.com/yzlg6yt
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 wires a little springy on my panel channel tray |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello :-)
I have nearly finished the wiring of my instrument panel switches in my mockup
instrument panel. My Sonex has a 30 degree tilt in the panel, which limits how
low switches can be mounted, since there is an 025 channel behind the panel with
the flanges facing up. I use this channel as a tray for the wires. In the
area behind the switches, I cutoff the rear flange flush with the web of the channel
to make room for the wires. I'm not sure yet how I could dress the cut
edge. Ideas?
I'd also like input on anything you see that could be a problem. I'm mainly concerned
about the two shielded mag cables. They rest on top of the channel tray.
Well, actually, they do a little more than rest there. These two white cables
put maybe 1 pound total pressure against the underlying tray, so it wants to
spring up a little. Is this okay? All the other wires don't put any force on
the tray at all. Some are shown dangling over the edge, which is only temporary.
Final installation will have no wires near metal edges.
The instrument panel has a piano hinge on the bottom edge that connects it to the
channel tray. All the wires come from the left of the pics. I have spiral wrap
around the wires that originated forward of the firewall. Wires from the main
buss will be zip tied to this, as will the grounds going back to the panel
ground buss. Both main and ground busses are also to the left of the pics. My
Enigma display will fit in the cutout area to the left of the switches.
The two white 20awg shielded mag wires exit the spiral wrap a couple inches from
the end and make a roughly 270 degree loop as they go up to the switches. This
is to allow room for them to go forward when the panel is opened. But the looping
also causes that little spring.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275625#275625
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wires_resting_on_instrument_panel_tray_from_behind_164.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob's 2008 Coax wire stripper offer |
Bob,
I'll testify that it is slick as goose grease to strip coax! I have a couple set
up for specific tasks and you'd have a fight on your hands to get one away
from me.
Bob Borger
Europa XS Monowheel, Rotax 914 w/ Intercooler, AirMaster C/S prop.
On Tuesday, December 01, 2009, at 01:27PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 wires a little springy on my panel channel tray |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Here's a pic from a little to the left from behind the panel. The zip tie on the
blue (shield) and white (core) wires helps support the thin shield with the
thin blue heat shrink. Otherwise, it might kink when moved around.
For both mag switches, I used 2-3 switches with jumpers between the switch terminals.
I had to remake the left mag connections because of the braid kinking issue,
so I made the jumpers a bit longer.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275627#275627
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wires_resting_on_instrument_panel_tray_from_left_quarter_176.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 wires a little springy on my panel channel tray |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
In the pic from the right, you can see the result of my left mag jumper redo. The
core is white and just goes to the top switch tabs.
I threaded a piece of red 20awg wire through the middle of the braid and crimped
the braid along with the end of this wire into a faston. Then put a small blue
piece of heat shrink over them and a larger black heat shrink. So the red jumper
wire also serves as inner support for the braid. The other end has a faston
crimped on going to the other switch tab.
I've also got more pics on a Flickr site I started a couple weeks ago:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44912760@N02/
I've also found the site by searching for 'messydeer'.
Your suggestions have been helpful and I look forward to getting more of them!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275633#275633
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wires_resting_on_instrument_panel_tray_right_quarter_187.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wires_resting_on_instrument_panel_tray_from_left_133.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clint \"Sandy\" McNabb" <mink(at)cebridge.net> |
| Subject: | Doubling up on Sensors and Probes |
Bob,
I've got a GRT engine analyzer and an engine analyzer from Real World
Solutions specifically for a Mazda rotary engine. Can engine analyzers share
the same EGT probes and the same temp and pressure sensors, or am I going to
have to install separate sensors and probes for each analyzer?
Thanks,
Sandy McNabb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contactor Failure |
At 01:01 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>The contactor in question is a B&C S702-1. I talked to Bill
>Bainbridge at B&C and he suggested trying the contactor again. I
>will bench test it (actually already have but will do it again) and
>rewire according to B&C diagram with battery switch between battery
>and starter contactor. That way I can remove power to the contactor if needed.
That particular design has been applied in the
gazillions in automotive applications and is well
proven. There are so many clones of the concept
I'd be hard pressed to identify the original any
more. I don't know where B&C buys their inventory
now. At one time, they were offering two versions
of that form factor in intermittent duty contactors.
One version was qualified onto his first STC'd starter
installations. The second came with the inventory I sold
him and included a built in coil collapse suppression
diode. Yes, it's a lowly diode.
> Right now I have installed a continuous duty contactor that I had
> lying on the shelf, but it doesn't fit into my space as well as the
> B&C contactor.
A continuous duty contactor is never a suitable
substitute for controlling starter motors.
>I did consider using only the starter-fitted contactor, but was
>trying to follow Aeroelectric advice so inserted the additional
>contactor. It would take additional wiring effort now to change.
The "AeroElectric advice" has foundations in a lot of
discussion threads involving starters, styles of motors,
and system characteristics. If you're running a Skytec
PM starter and have jumpered the built in contactor's
control line to the main terminal, then it's almost
a certainty that your starter suffers from what we've
calls "starter run on" . . . a delayed disengagement
of the pinion gear due to counter-EMF generated by
a motor's armature spinning down in a permanent
magnet field. Ideas discovered and recipes developed
from those discussions spawned Figure Z-22.
>The B&C S702-1 contactor has an internal diode so the starter switch
>was connected to the S terminal with no external diode. I did not
>install a starter engaged light, but plan to add one as I rewire things.
>Rewiring will consist of adding #2 welding cable from the battery to
>the battery switch and then to the contactor. Also I'll wire up a
>starter engaged light.
Please rewire per Z-22. This is important for several
reasons:
(1) You have a PM starter motor and the
change will improve the life of your starter motor,
pinion gear and ring gear.
(2) You'll eliminate the potential for sticking
the contactor again.
(3) This also reduces the number of metallic joints
and contact sets in series with the starter. All of
these are good things.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | How do you test a circuit breaker? |
I recently came into possession of a variety of used Klixon circuit breakers from
5A to 80A. Is there any way to test them other than just on passes current
and off doesn't? I would like to make sure they are actually protecting the circuit
before I use them in an application.
Any suggestions?
Rodney Hall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you test a circuit breaker? |
At 06:49 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>I recently came into possession of a variety of used Klixon circuit
>breakers from 5A to 80A. Is there any way to test them other than
>just on passes current and off doesn't? I would like to make sure
>they are actually protecting the circuit before I use them in an application.
>
>Any suggestions?
You can test them for gross function by simply hooking them
across a battery using a length of wire, say 10 ft total
of 12AWG or even 10AWG wire. If they open, they're "functional".
These critters are exceedingly robust in their design. . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Klixon_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Klixon_2.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/Klixon_3.jpg
and not prone to "drifting" in terms of calibration.
Even so, if any one "drifted" up 50% it would not
represent a hazard. If it "drifted" down by 50% the
worst thing that happens is that you get some nuisance
trips and the breaker gets replaced.
Chances that you're going to test these and find a
bad one is very small.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Bob,
>Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
>the engine running and what devices do they service?
Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with
independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for
attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.
The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes
alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the
planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and
one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one
off line to save remaining power.
With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it
in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm installing
a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.
No need for a landing light in most cases.
Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse
holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for both
is directly off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus
might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not
done that yet.
Thanks,
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
At 10:38 AM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure
>reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event
>occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a
>backup alt which feeds the essential bus.
Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
the engine running and what devices do they service?
>So, the design goal is that when all else fails,
I'll suggest we strive to eliminate "when all else fails"
from the lexicon of airplanespeak. It's a vague, broad brush
admission that we're unsure as to the SYSTEM reliability
of our design. The feel-good response is to stack on
"safety enhancements" that tend to prop up an ill-defined
or mis-understood system.
"All else" says you've suffered MULTIPLE failures of items
necessary for continued flight . . . or perhaps ONE failure
for which no plan-b was crafted.
If you have an SD-8 + main alternator and an RG battery,
perhaps you already have enough stuff to keep the grim-
salvager from getting a call to come clean up the
aluminum mess you made.
Give us a list the electro-whizzies that keep the
engine going along with their current requirements
and we'll go from there.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | glide slope anenna |
I've been thinking about building a glide slope antenna and was
wondering if anyone had done this. If so, any ideas would be great.
Pros and cons are welcome. Thanks in advance.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/01/09 |
The continuous duty contactor I have installed is temporary. I will
replace it with an intermittent duty one.
I installed the Skytec starter as it arrived from the manufacturer - that
is, with the jumper from the contactor's control line to the main terminal
installed. I left the jumper installed because Skytec recommend it - see
_http://www.skytecair.com/images/Certified%20LS%20Wiring_1100.jpg_
(http://www.skytecair.com/images/Certified%20LS%20Wiring_1100.jpg) . My error, of
course, was that I left out what they call the master solenoid.
This is Van's recommended wiring
_http://www.skytecair.com/images/Van's%20Starter%20Wiring%20Lg.jpg_
(http://www.skytecair.com/images/Van's%20Starter%20Wiring%20Lg.jpg) , but Skytec recommends against wiring this way.
Bob, are you implying that I should have removed the jumper wire from the
starter?
I will refer to Z-22 as I rewire.
Stan Sutterfield
At 01:01 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>The contactor in question is a B&C S702-1. I talked to Bill
>Bainbridge at B&C and he suggested trying the contactor again. I
>will bench test it (actually already have but will do it again) and
>rewire according to B&C diagram with battery switch between battery
>and starter contactor. That way I can remove power to the contactor if
needed.
That particular design has been applied in the
gazillions in automotive applications and is well
proven. There are so many clones of the concept
I'd be hard pressed to identify the original any
more. I don't know where B&C buys their inventory
now. At one time, they were offering two versions
of that form factor in intermittent duty contactors.
One version was qualified onto his first STC'd starter
installations. The second came with the inventory I sold
him and included a built in coil collapse suppression
diode. Yes, it's a lowly diode.
> Right now I have installed a continuous duty contactor that I had
> lying on the shelf, but it doesn't fit into my space as well as the
> B&C contactor.
A continuous duty contactor is never a suitable
substitute for controlling starter motors.
>I did consider using only the starter-fitted contactor, but was
>trying to follow Aeroelectric advice so inserted the additional
>contactor. It would take additional wiring effort now to change.
The "AeroElectric advice" has foundations in a lot of
discussion threads involving starters, styles of motors,
and system characteristics. If you're running a Skytec
PM starter and have jumpered the built in contactor's
control line to the main terminal, then it's almost
a certainty that your starter suffers from what we've
calls "starter run on" . . . a delayed disengagement
of the pinion gear due to counter-EMF generated by
a motor's armature spinning down in a permanent
magnet field. Ideas discovered and recipes developed
from those discussions spawned Figure Z-22.
>The B&C S702-1 contactor has an internal diode so the starter switch
>was connected to the S terminal with no external diode. I did not
>install a starter engaged light, but plan to add one as I rewire things.
>Rewiring will consist of adding #2 welding cable from the battery to
>the battery switch and then to the contactor. Also I'll wire up a
>starter engaged light.
Please rewire per Z-22. This is important for several
reasons:
(1) You have a PM starter motor and the
change will improve the life of your starter motor,
pinion gear and ring gear.
(2) You'll eliminate the potential for sticking
the contactor again.
(3) This also reduces the number of metallic joints
and contact sets in series with the starter. All of
these are good things.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: glide slope anenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
According to my calculations, a quarter wave glideslope antenna should be 21.9cm
long. I believe it is horizontally polarized. A temporary antenna can be a
length of copper tape stuck onto the windscreen and soldered to the coax center
conductor. Attach the coax shield to the adjacent windscreen metal frame.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275745#275745
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 wires a little springy on my panel channel tray |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
How about something like this for metal edge protection for wires.
Joe
http://www.jcwhitney.com/FLEXIBLE_EDGE_TRIM_50?ID=12;0;0;0;100001;ProductName;0;0;0;0;2006725;0;0
> I cutoff the rear flange flush with the web of the channel to make room for the
wires. I'm not sure yet how I could dress the cut edge. Ideas?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275754#275754
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
| From: | "user9253" <fran5sew(at)banyanol.com> |
LEDs should not work with opposite polarity. So I looked up the Radio Shack part
number that you gave: 272-345. At first I thought that it was an LED too.
But then I realized that it is a RED lamp, not an LED. So actually you are using
incandescent lamps.
> I understand it would be good to place a rectifying diode across the leads in
spike catcher fashion.
I do not think so. A reverse-biased diode would have no affect. A forward-biased
diode would blow the fuse.
Joe
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103779
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275761#275761
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 wires a little springy on my panel channel tray |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, Joe :-)
Another possibility is to bend the cut edge down a bit. Others have added a piece
of angle with the flange pointing down across the cutout area. I'll be putting
in a vertical piece of 032 angle on either side of the Enigma for support
between the tray and glare shield and may not need that extra angle under the
tray.
I also moved things around with the wires a little. Seems the two mag leads aren't
totally responsible for the springiness. All the other wires are adding a
little, even though they don't look like it. And I measured the force to be only
6oz. Having never done this before, I'm very cautious.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275770#275770
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: Contactor Failure |
At 08:46 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
The continuous duty contactor I have installed is temporary. I will
replace it with an intermittent duty one.
I installed the Skytec starter as it arrived from the manufacturer -
that is, with the jumper from the contactor's control line to the
main terminal installed. I left the jumper installed because Skytec
recommend it - see
http://www.skytecair.com/images/Certified%20LS%20Wiring_1100.jpg. My
error, of course, was that I left out what they call the master solenoid.
I'm just guessing . . . but this configuration was probably
crafted to MINIMIZE changes to an existing system in a TC
aircraft. Adding the jumper to the starter contactor (a
technique adopted by B&C many years earlier) offers three
advantages. (1) you get a drop-in replacement of a previously
installed starter and (2) buffers existing ship's wiring from
experiencing the extra-ordinary inrush offered by the two-stage
solenoids as described in my article and (3) the PM motor inrush
current doesn't hit the system until BOTH the standard starter
and built-in contactors close. Since the standard contactor
closes first, there's a potential for improving life of this
contactor IF it's contacts are closed and stable when the
second set of contacts on the starter get closed a few milliseconds
later. The DOWNSIDE is the potential for suffering delayed
pinion dis-engagement.
This is Van's recommended wiring
http://www.skytecair.com/images/Van's%20Starter%20Wiring%20Lg.jpg,
but Skytec recommends against wiring this way.
This is pretty slick. The diagram suggests using the auxiliary
"I" (ignition boost) terminal available on most starter
contactors to close the starter-mounted contactor . . . again
with the idea of shifting motor inrush currents to the
starter's internal contactor. It has the advantage of breaking
the internal contactor's coil current when the external starter
contactor opens. This accomplishes the same goals as Z-22
but with an external STARTER CONTACTOR as opposed to an external
BUFFER RELAY.
Bob, are you implying that I should have removed the jumper wire from
the starter?
Not implying, recommending . . . based on what we learned
about (1) delayed disengagement and (2) higher stresses
on starter control contactor with substitution of PM
motor technology. If you already have an external contactor
installed (a la Van's suggestion) then making a simple change
to remove the jumper and wire the internal contactor control
terminal to the external contactor "I" terminal would be
a good move.
Van's drawing or Z-22 is the elegant solution for new design
in an OBAM aircraft. Skytec's drawing is the less than elegant
solution for minimizing changes to a TC aircraft when replacing
original starter called out on the ship's certification documents.
The way you had it wired ORIGINALLY wasn't all that hard on
the external contactor . . . assuming that it's contacts were
closed and stable before the internal contactor gets closed.
I've not had an opportunity to measure it but I suspect this
is the case. THEREFORE, I'm comfortable with suggesting that
your original sticking failure was probably an isolated case
and not indicative of a system design error. ADDING the battery
master contactor in series with cranking currents is the
firewall against a future repeat causing you to burn a battery
or starter.
Adding the wire to conform to Van's suggested configuration
would be a good move to take care of the potential for delayed
disengagement.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: glide slope anenna |
At 11:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>I've been thinking about building a glide slope antenna and was
>wondering if anyone had done this. If so, any ideas would be
>great. Pros and cons are welcome. Thanks in advance.
>
Do you have a VOR antenna installed?
If so, consider using a coupler to tie the GS
receiver to the VOR antenna.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/VOR_GS_Duplexer_CI_507.jpg
While a VOR antenna is not the IDEAL
GS antenna, the signal from a LOC/GS system
is huge . . . the ship's ILS system can
tolerate losses introduced by this coupler.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
At 09:52 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>LEDs should not work with opposite polarity. So I looked up the
>Radio Shack part number that you gave: 272-345. At first I thought
>that it was an LED too. But then I realized that it is a RED lamp,
>not an LED. So actually you are using incandescent lamps.
Good catch Joe!
>
> > I understand it would be good to place a rectifying diode across
> the leads in spike catcher fashion.
>
>I do not think so. A reverse-biased diode would have no affect. A
>forward-biased diode would blow the fuse.
WAaayyyy back when, LEDs were considered to be
fragile devices when it came to reverse voltage
stresses. Indeed, they ARE less tolerant of reverse
voltage than their power rectifying cousins. It was
not uncommon for a designer to place a reversed polarity
diode across an LED to clamp off POTENTIALLY damaging
reverse voltage "spikes". Forward voltage "spikes"
were less worrisome because the current limiting
resistor in series with most LEDs would mitigate stress
on the device.
Nowadays, we KNOW that are airplanes are not plagued
with such spikes. Hence, the folks who make drop in
incandescent replacement LEDs don't include such
diodes in their product.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: glide slope anenna |
Thanks Bob. I hadn't thought about that yet but that sure will save a
lot of time and effort.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: glide slope anenna
At 11:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
I've been thinking about building a glide slope antenna and was
wondering if anyone had done this. If so, any ideas would be great.
Pros and cons are welcome. Thanks in advance.
Do you have a VOR antenna installed?
If so, consider using a coupler to tie the GS
receiver to the VOR antenna.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/VOR_GS_Duplexer_CI_507.jpg
While a VOR antenna is not the IDEAL
GS antenna, the signal from a LOC/GS system
is huge . . . the ship's ILS system can
tolerate losses introduced by this coupler.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/02/09 01:33:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | DIY VHF Comm antenna |
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DIY_Comm_Antenna.jpg
Here's a starting point for any readers who would
like to experiment with their own DIY comm antennas:
This design starts with a CB radio antenna mounting
stud:
http://tinyurl.com/yzygjbq
The design goal is to add a steel (preferably
stainless) antenna rod to the antenna side of
the mounting stud, prevent rotation of assembly in
the mounting hole, and (optionally) add an adapter
that is friendly to the commonly used BNC feedline
connectors.
In the example illustrated, I silver soldered a
piece of 3/16 stainless rod in a hole drilled into
a steel hex head 3/8-24 x 1/2" bolt. 10% of thread
area on the bolt are "buggered" up to provide an "upset-
metal" connection between the bolt and female threads
in the mounting stud. Avoid damage to first three threads
so that the bolt will start easily.
Put upper coupler of antenna stud in vise. Coat threads of
antenna rod with a thread-locker . . . or just E-6000
adhesive. This is more for moisture sealing than anything
else. Thread the antenna into the coupler. It will go in with some
resistance due to "damaged" threads . . . but the goal
is to achieve some level of gas-tightness between the
bolt and the coupler.
Fabricate a piece of .060 or so brass tab and soft-solder
with 63/37 alloy. You'll have to clean the plating off
the interface surface of the lower half of the coupler
to get a good sweat. Avoid excessive heat that will damage
the stud's plastic insulator.
Add UHF to BNC adapter as shown or plan on using a
UHF male connector at the end of your feedline.
Cut the overall length of the antenna to 22" (tip
to mounting surface). Round tip on grinder to avoid
sharp edges at the end. If you like, put a 45 degree
or so "rakish" bend in the antenna rod beginning about
6" off the mounting surface.
Mount to airplane in a robust skin doubler riveted
to the skin and picking up some structure if possible.
Brighten the surfaces that come together. Use #8 hardware
to ground the anti-rotation tab. Truss head screws are
suggested.
This is about #3 in a series of designs I've considered
writing up in the 'Connection. It has evolved to the
stage that it would be good for some of you folks to take
a whack at building it. Let me know what problems you
encounter with fabrication, installation or service.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks for clearing these things up, guys :-) I was about to call Radio Shack
and ask them to explain this. I would have really confused them.
It's only a matter of a few bucks for these lights, but any reason to switch to
LED warning lights? I know they last much longer, but I'd think as infrequently
as these standard lights would come on (starter engaged, low voltage, and visual
alarm for EFIS) they'd never burn out anyway.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275807#275807
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lamp polarity and unpluggability |
One might use LEDs for reliability (do you check the operation of all
warning lights before each flight?). An incandescent filament is
subject to failing due to cycling and vibration I'd guess. A solid
state LED is forever (?).
I'm using them just because they're neat.
messydeer wrote:
>
> Thanks for clearing these things up, guys :-) I was about to call Radio Shack
and ask them to explain this. I would have really confused them.
>
> It's only a matter of a few bucks for these lights, but any reason to switch
to LED warning lights? I know they last much longer, but I'd think as infrequently
as these standard lights would come on (starter engaged, low voltage, and
visual alarm for EFIS) they'd never burn out anyway.
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DIY_Comm_Antenna.jpg
>
> Here's a starting point for any readers who would
> like to experiment with their own DIY comm antennas:
>
> This design starts with a CB radio antenna mounting
> stud:
>
> * http://tinyurl.com/yzygjbq*
>
> The design goal is to add a steel (preferably
> stainless) antenna rod to the antenna side of
> the mounting stud, prevent rotation of assembly in
> the mounting hole, and (optionally) add an adapter
> that is friendly to the commonly used BNC feedline
> connectors.
>
> In the example illustrated, I silver soldered a
> piece of 3/16 stainless rod in a hole drilled into
> a steel hex head 3/8-24 x 1/2" bolt.
That's a might steep stress riser, going from a whippy piece of
stainless into a bolt. How about slipping a few inches of shrink wrap
over the base, so that it comes up the whip a bit, and pack it full of
E6000? Just a few seconds with a butane flame to give the heat shrink
filled tube a taper toward the tip, allowing excess E6000 to be squeezed
out. Now you have a strain relief, and another layer of sealing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wade Roe" <wroe1(at)dbtech.net> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master Switch |
I am planning the switches for the panel in my RV-7 and wanted to get some
opinions about the options. The proposed electrical schematic closely
parallels AEC Z-13 (all electric on a budget). The plane will be configured
for IFR flight (GNS-430w, SL-40, AFS 4500, etc...). I have noticed that
many builders are incorporating avionics master switches in their planes
that are exclusive to the DC power master (off-batt-main alt). Unless I'm
missing something, it would seem to be beneficial to be able to start the
engine then bring up the avionics by way of the "avionics master".
Also, I'm trying to decide whether or not to use a designated EFIS (on-off)
master for the AFS 4500.
Thoughts and/or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Wade Roe
(RV-7 in progress)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
| From: | Bill Boyd <sportav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Or have this guy make you what you need - it will probably outlast your
airframe.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/r/breedlove1/
Bill N4DLN
Not a customer of his (yet) but he has good reviews on the HF mobile groups
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DIY_Comm_Antenna.jpg
>
> Here's a starting point for any readers who would
> like to experiment with their own DIY comm antennas:
>
> This design starts with a CB radio antenna mounting
> stud:
>
> * http://tinyurl.com/yzygjbq*
>
> The design goal is to add a steel (preferably
> stainless) antenna rod to the antenna side of
> the mounting stud, prevent rotation of assembly in
> the mounting hole, and (optionally) add an adapter
> that is friendly to the commonly used BNC feedline
> connectors.
>
> In the example illustrated, I silver soldered a
> piece of 3/16 stainless rod in a hole drilled into
> a steel hex head 3/8-24 x 1/2" bolt. 10% of thread
> area on the bolt are "buggered" up to provide an "upset-
> metal" connection between the bolt and female threads
> in the mounting stud. Avoid damage to first three threads
> so that the bolt will start easily.
>
> Put upper coupler of antenna stud in vise. Coat threads of
> antenna rod with a thread-locker . . . or just E-6000
> adhesive. This is more for moisture sealing than anything
> else. Thread the antenna into the coupler. It will go in with some
> resistance due to "damaged" threads . . . but the goal
> is to achieve some level of gas-tightness between the
> bolt and the coupler.
>
> Fabricate a piece of .060 or so brass tab and soft-solder
> with 63/37 alloy. You'll have to clean the plating off
> the interface surface of the lower half of the coupler
> to get a good sweat. Avoid excessive heat that will damage
> the stud's plastic insulator.
>
> Add UHF to BNC adapter as shown or plan on using a
> UHF male connector at the end of your feedline.
> Cut the overall length of the antenna to 22" (tip
> to mounting surface). Round tip on grinder to avoid
> sharp edges at the end. If you like, put a 45 degree
> or so "rakish" bend in the antenna rod beginning about
> 6" off the mounting surface.
>
> Mount to airplane in a robust skin doubler riveted
> to the skin and picking up some structure if possible.
> Brighten the surfaces that come together. Use #8 hardware
> to ground the anti-rotation tab. Truss head screws are
> suggested.
>
> This is about #3 in a series of designs I've considered
> writing up in the 'Connection. It has evolved to the
> stage that it would be good for some of you folks to take
> a whack at building it. Let me know what problems you
> encounter with fabrication, installation or service.
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . >
> < show me where I'm wrong. >
> ================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
| From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> See:
>>
>> http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DIY_Comm_Antenna.jpg
>>
>> Here's a starting point for any readers who would
>> like to experiment with their own DIY comm antennas:
>>
>> This design starts with a CB radio antenna mounting
>> stud:
>>
>> * http://tinyurl.com/yzygjbq*
>>
>> The design goal is to add a steel (preferably
>> stainless) antenna rod to the antenna side of
>> the mounting stud, prevent rotation of assembly in
>> the mounting hole, and (optionally) add an adapter
>> that is friendly to the commonly used BNC feedline
>> connectors.
>>
>> In the example illustrated, I silver soldered a
>> piece of 3/16 stainless rod in a hole drilled into
>> a steel hex head 3/8-24 x 1/2" bolt.
> That's a might steep stress riser, going from a whippy piece of
> stainless into a bolt. How about slipping a few inches of shrink wrap
> over the base, so that it comes up the whip a bit, and pack it full of
> E6000? Just a few seconds with a butane flame to give the heat shrink
> filled tube a taper toward the tip, allowing excess E6000 to be squeezed
> out. Now you have a strain relief, and another layer of sealing.
>
This is probably a good idea. However, several years ago I built a 5/8
wave whip for a 2m mobile rig - for my car. I started with a CB whip and
used a hardware store bolt (5/16" dia, maybe 10" long) to extend the
length enough to tune it (on top of a coil wrapped around a teflon core).
The total length was something like 48". I whacked a lot of tree branches
and several parking garages with it and it never failed. One of the
parking garages hooked it while I was pulling into a parking spot.. I
didn't think much of it until backing out of the spot it made an
abnormally loud "sproing!" sound. Somehow it had put about a 20deg bend
about 8" from the end of the whip - it still functioned fine, routinely
allowing me to talk with stations 60mi away. I still have the antenna -
very low SWR..
Anecdotal, obviously.. But I think the loads are well within the strength
of the stainless wire commonly used for antenna whips.
Matt-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
At 01:38 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am planning the switches for the panel in my RV-7 and wanted to get some
>opinions about the options. The proposed electrical schematic closely
>parallels AEC Z-13 (all electric on a budget). The plane will be configured
>for IFR flight (GNS-430w, SL-40, AFS 4500, etc...). I have noticed that
>many builders are incorporating avionics master switches in their planes
>that are exclusive to the DC power master (off-batt-main alt). Unless I'm
>missing something, it would seem to be beneficial to be able to start the
>engine then bring up the avionics by way of the "avionics master".
>
>Also, I'm trying to decide whether or not to use a designated EFIS (on-off)
>master for the AFS 4500.
>
>Thoughts and/or comments would be appreciated.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/avmaster.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/DO-160.pdf
I have written to and talked with dozens of avionics equipment
designers at big and little companies alike for over 25 years
to inquire as to the physics behind any recommendation for
an avionics master switch. Most letters/e-mails produced ZERO
response. Every conversation produced a somewhat mystified
response . . . "Gee, we build these things to stand everything
BUT and nuclear EMP and folks are STILL worrying about
starter motors?" Interestingly enough, when hydraulic packs
with PM pump motors were installed for landing gear systems,
the AV Master Switch acolytes didn't insist on killing all the
radios before extending or retracting the gear. This in spite
of the fact that the PM motors put bigger chunks of trash on the
bus than did some starter motors!
Bottom line is that the AV Master is a convenience/feel-good
feature and has no modern function as a firewall against
bus-borne hazards to radios.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
Bob
Why not use a whip adapter like http://tinyurl.com/ydstkmb to mount the
antenna to the mounting stud?
Best regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DIY VHF Comm antenna
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DIY_Comm_Antenna.jpg
Here's a starting point for any readers who would
like to experiment with their own DIY comm antennas:
This design starts with a CB radio antenna mounting
stud:
http://tinyurl.com/yzygjbq
The design goal is to add a steel (preferably
stainless) antenna rod to the antenna side of
the mounting stud, prevent rotation of assembly in
the mounting hole, and (optionally) add an adapter
that is friendly to the commonly used BNC feedline
connectors.
In the example illustrated, I silver soldered a
piece of 3/16 stainless rod in a hole drilled into
a steel hex head 3/8-24 x 1/2" bolt. 10% of thread
area on the bolt are "buggered" up to provide an "upset-
metal" connection between the bolt and female threads
in the mounting stud. Avoid damage to first three threads
so that the bolt will start easily.
Put upper coupler of antenna stud in vise. Coat threads of
antenna rod with a thread-locker . . . or just E-6000
adhesive. This is more for moisture sealing than anything
else. Thread the antenna into the coupler. It will go in with some
resistance due to "damaged" threads . . . but the goal
is to achieve some level of gas-tightness between the
bolt and the coupler.
Fabricate a piece of .060 or so brass tab and soft-solder
with 63/37 alloy. You'll have to clean the plating off
the interface surface of the lower half of the coupler
to get a good sweat. Avoid excessive heat that will damage
the stud's plastic insulator.
Add UHF to BNC adapter as shown or plan on using a
UHF male connector at the end of your feedline.
Cut the overall length of the antenna to 22" (tip
to mounting surface). Round tip on grinder to avoid
sharp edges at the end. If you like, put a 45 degree
or so "rakish" bend in the antenna rod beginning about
6" off the mounting surface.
Mount to airplane in a robust skin doubler riveted
to the skin and picking up some structure if possible.
Brighten the surfaces that come together. Use #8 hardware
to ground the anti-rotation tab. Truss head screws are
suggested.
This is about #3 in a series of designs I've considered
writing up in the 'Connection. It has evolved to the
stage that it would be good for some of you folks to take
a whack at building it. Let me know what problems you
encounter with fabrication, installation or service.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
At 03:04 AM 12/3/2009, you wrote:
>Bob
>
>Why not use a whip adapter like
><http://tinyurl.com/ydstkmb>http://tinyurl.com/ydstkmb to mount the
>antenna to the mounting stud?
That could work. Keep in mind that one design goal for
antennas is to drive the metallic joins to as close
to zero-ohms as possible . . . particularly at the
high current segments of the antenna (at the bottom).
Further, one is interested in mechanical robustness.
A set-screw doesn't offer much security for retaining
the antenna rod in the adapter. Of course, you could
silver-solder the rod into the adapter basically turning
it into a fancy bolt. It's a option to consider while
seeking the elegant solution. Thanks for the heads-up!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DIY VHF Comm antenna |
At 02:41 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>Or have this guy make you what you need - it will probably outlast
>your airframe.
>
><http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/r/breedlove1/>http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/r/breedlove1/
>
>Bill N4DLN
>
>Not a customer of his (yet) but he has good reviews on the HF mobile groups
>
Hmmm . . . nice find. I might write to him with some
design goals and see what he suggests. Looks like
a talented and capable fellow . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Bob,
I wanted to bubble this question up once more to get your comment on my
options to proceed. Thanks!
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg(at)pjm.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
Bob,
>Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
>the engine running and what devices do they service?
Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with
independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for
attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.
The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes
alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the
planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and
one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one
off line to save remaining power.
With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it
in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm installing
a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.
No need for a landing light in most cases.
Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse
holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for both
is directly off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus
might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not
done that yet.
Thanks,
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
At 10:38 AM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob,
>
>Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure
>reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event
>occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a
>backup alt which feeds the essential bus.
Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
the engine running and what devices do they service?
>So, the design goal is that when all else fails,
I'll suggest we strive to eliminate "when all else fails"
from the lexicon of airplanespeak. It's a vague, broad brush
admission that we're unsure as to the SYSTEM reliability
of our design. The feel-good response is to stack on
"safety enhancements" that tend to prop up an ill-defined
or mis-understood system.
"All else" says you've suffered MULTIPLE failures of items
necessary for continued flight . . . or perhaps ONE failure
for which no plan-b was crafted.
If you have an SD-8 + main alternator and an RG battery,
perhaps you already have enough stuff to keep the grim-
salvager from getting a call to come clean up the
aluminum mess you made.
Give us a list the electro-whizzies that keep the
engine going along with their current requirements
and we'll go from there.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
At 08:38 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
> >Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
> >the engine running and what devices do they service?
>
>Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with
>independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for
>attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.
>
>The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes
>alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the
>planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and
>one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one
>off line to save remaining power.
Z-13/8 with a rationally maintained RG battery will
always have a source of energy needed to keep one
if not both ignition systems running.
If it were my airplane, #1 ignition would drive from
a fuse on the main bus. #2 would run from a fuse on the
battery bus. No extra batteries. No breakers. Only the
normal ON/OFF control switches.
Configure your e-bus as
>With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it
>in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm installing
>a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.
>No need for a landing light in most cases.
>
>Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse
>holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for both
>is directly off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus
>might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not
>done that yet.
There are multiple recipes for success that use common
ingredients. Be cautious of mixing-matching the ingredients
between recipes. Z-13/8 will service your needs SIMPLY and
nicely with no single points of failure for keeping the engine
running.
Configure the e-bus with attention to design goals
described in chapter 17.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auxillary Battery Installation... |
Great,
Thanks Bob. Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auxillary Battery Installation...
At 08:38 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
> >Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep
> >the engine running and what devices do they service?
>
>Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with
>independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for
>attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.
>
>The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes
>alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the
>planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and
>one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one
>off line to save remaining power.
Z-13/8 with a rationally maintained RG battery will
always have a source of energy needed to keep one
if not both ignition systems running.
If it were my airplane, #1 ignition would drive from
a fuse on the main bus. #2 would run from a fuse on the
battery bus. No extra batteries. No breakers. Only the
normal ON/OFF control switches.
Configure your e-bus as
>With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it
>in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm
installing
>a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.
>No need for a landing light in most cases.
>
>Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse
>holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for
both
>is directly off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus
>might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not
>done that yet.
There are multiple recipes for success that use common
ingredients. Be cautious of mixing-matching the ingredients
between recipes. Z-13/8 will service your needs SIMPLY and
nicely with no single points of failure for keeping the engine
running.
Configure the e-bus with attention to design goals
described in chapter 17.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer Generator Wiring |
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
Bob:
Just want to provide feedback on your help....I found a squaring circuit that was
pre-made and installed it and it works perfect. Thanks for all your help.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276008#276008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
I am interested in changing how the Hobbs meter in my plane is wired (it is currently
wired to the radio master - not the best place for it) and don't want to
install an oil pressure switch. I know I read in the EAA magazine many months
back of alternative ways of doing so, but can't find the article.
What other ways have been done? I think the writer of the EAA article used the
field for the alternator.
Any suggestions?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276010#276010
________________________________________________________________________________
Craig,
Go wireless. There are units available now that work on vibration. No
fussing about with wires. BTW - I have an old wired job if someone wants
a challenge. New in box. Free for asking but don't let me see it on
eBay. If you don't have a need for it right now, don't ask.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
I am interested in changing how the Hobbs meter in my plane is wired (it
is currently wired to the radio master - not the best place for it) and
don't want to install an oil pressure switch. I know I read in the EAA
magazine many months back of alternative ways of doing so, but can't
find the article.
What other ways have been done? I think the writer of the EAA article
used the field for the alternator.
Any suggestions?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276010#276010
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
Good Afternoon Craig,
It all depends on what you want to record.
For a certificated flying machine, the FAA only requires that we log the
actual flying time. Taxiing to the gas pumps, maintenance runups, and taxiing
to the runway do not have to be recorded. If you want to use the time for
pilot logging purposes, all time from the time when the engine is started
for the purpose of flight to the engine shut down following a flight counts.
Kinda tricky if you want to taxi to the gas pump without logging time!
The easiest way to get only flight time is with a ground reference strut
switch.
Another suitable method is with an air pressure operated switch in the
pitot line Some folks use a simple air operated vane on a strut, wing, belly,
or elsewhere
We formerly operated a fleet of Helicopters. For maintenance purposes, we
had a Hobbs hooked up to a switch on the collective, It only recorded time
when the collective was off the stop. For charging the customer, we had a
Hobbs on the Master switch. It recorded time from the moment the master
switch went on until it was turned off.
As Always, It All Depends!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA' Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 12/3/2009 1:42:57 P.M. Central Standard Time,
capav8r(at)gmail.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Winkelmann"
I am interested in changing how the Hobbs meter in my plane is wired (it
is currently wired to the radio master - not the best place for it) and
don't want to install an oil pressure switch. I know I read in the EAA
magazine many months back of alternative ways of doing so, but can't find the
article.
What other ways have been done? I think the writer of the EAA article
used the field for the alternator.
Any suggestions?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276010#276010
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r(at)gmail.com> |
In my experimental plane with a radial engine, the hobbs was wired to the radio
master by the prior owner with the thought that the radios are on when flying.
However, there is time the radios are on when the engine is not running (testing
equipment, checking atis, etc).
Since the tach does not track "engine time" I am in need of a good way to track
something close to it (Hobbs time) so I have a reminder when to change the oil.
My thought was the field on the alternator. The plane has an EI Superclock that
can track time from when power is applied to one lead.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276111#276111
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
| From: | "ZuluZephyr" <zuluzephyr(at)yahoo.com> |
I am building a Sportsman with 2 batteries in the back behind a bulkhead (about
a 10 to 12 foot run to the firewall).
Z19 call for the always hot Engine Battery Buss (fuse block) to be within 6 inches
of the battery. This would mean bringing about 10 hot wires forward to the
panel from the buss.
What would be the downside of mounting the Engine Battery Buss (and Main Battery
Buss) near the panel and resizing the 2 hot wires from the battery to the buss
and adding an ANL fuse to protect the wire other than the addition of the fuse?
This would reduce the wire count for this run length.
Thanks,
Rocky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276125#276125
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
At 02:10 AM 12/4/2009, you wrote:
>
>I am building a Sportsman with 2 batteries in the back behind a
>bulkhead (about a 10 to 12 foot run to the firewall).
>
>Z19 call for the always hot Engine Battery Buss (fuse block) to be
>within 6 inches of the battery. This would mean bringing about 10
>hot wires forward to the panel from the buss.
That's a lot of items for a hot battery bus.
What systems make up the 10 loads and what
are their current requirements?
>What would be the downside of mounting the Engine Battery Buss (and
>Main Battery Buss) near the panel and resizing the 2 hot wires from
>the battery to the buss and adding an ANL fuse to protect the wire
>other than the addition of the fuse? This would reduce the wire
>count for this run length.
It's a crash-safety thing. We'd like for wires
that are always hot to be breakered at 5A or
less, fused at 7A or less. A battery buss feeder
to a remotely mounted battery would not fit
the design goals for contemporary TC aircraft.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
| From: | "ZuluZephyr" <zuluzephyr(at)yahoo.com> |
The Engine and Main buss are basically duplicates with the following:
1. EFI 4a
2. ECU 1a
3. Pri Fuel Pump 7.5a
4. Sec Fuel Pump 7.5a (only one running except take off and landing)
5. Electric Constant Speed Prop 4.5a (9a peak)
Thanks,
Rocky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276195#276195
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Hi Craig,
It's time to rally the troops. I recalling in one of the recent
(last couple years) aviation magazines of a vibration switch for use
with a hobbs meter for the purpose you have addressed. If I recall
it was around $12-$18. Any one recall seeing that. The Tiny Tach is
another alternative - you have to get the correct model depending
upon what engine type you have (single or double high voltage pulse
per rev. The are dual function, Tach and engine hour meter - attach
by wrapping a lead around the high voltage lead of one of the plugs.
If your using it for tracking hours for oil change, you should use
the tach hours if you have a recording tach, since that reflects
actual engine operation hours. The hobbs were added by rental
aircraft operators to base time for flight instruction. Second
function was for recording PIC time for log books.
jerb
At 11:40 AM 12/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>I am interested in changing how the Hobbs meter in my plane is wired
>(it is currently wired to the radio master - not the best place for
>it) and don't want to install an oil pressure switch. I know I read
>in the EAA magazine many months back of alternative ways of doing
>so, but can't find the article.
>
>What other ways have been done? I think the writer of the EAA
>article used the field for the alternator.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Craig
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276010#276010
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Check this link out.
http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
At 11:40 AM 12/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>I am interested in changing how the Hobbs meter in my plane is wired
>(it is currently wired to the radio master - not the best place for
>it) and don't want to install an oil pressure switch. I know I read
>in the EAA magazine many months back of alternative ways of doing
>so, but can't find the article.
>
>What other ways have been done? I think the writer of the EAA
>article used the field for the alternator.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Craig
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276010#276010
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 08:58 PM 12/4/2009, you wrote:
>
>Check this link out.
>http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
That's pretty slick. It would be interesting to
put it side-by-side with another meter to see
how discriminating it is with respect to vibration
from an engine and other potential "noises". Does
anyone on the List have one of these installed?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net> |
I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4 different
mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do not tell you
which mounting they have offered. See:
http://tinyurl.com/yhhxn53
Steve Thomas
________________________________________________________________________
On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:58 PM, jerb wrote:
>
> Check this link out.
> http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alfred - Aviatik" <ykibuess(at)bluewin.ch> |
Craig,
Comco Ikarus (http://www.comco-ikarus.de/) sells a small device that powers
the hobbs meter with AC juice from the alternator. Not cheap (65 Euros) but
does what you are looking for.
Regards, Alfred
------------------------------------------------
Alfred Buess, Europa XS HB-YKI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rino" <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Engine oil starvation |
Here is the photo of the end housing damage.
Rino Lacombe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rino" <lacombr(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Engine oil starvation |
Sorry about the preceding message, my mistake, wrong address.
Rino Lacombe
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve Thomas a crit :
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4 different
mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do not tell you
which mounting they have offered.
Here's a link to the manufacturer data sheet :
http://www.enmco.com/pdf/675.PDF
Wag Aero's products seems to be the T54C1 'Rectangle Panel Mount w/ 2
Holes'.
Most interesting. No wire, no connection, no nothing ;-)
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
I had a look at these items, and they all have a 8 year battery life, but
cannot be replaced - does anyone not think this could be a problem !!!
Regards: John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Thomas" <lists(at)stevet.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4
> different mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce
> do not tell you which mounting they have offered. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yhhxn53
>
>
> Steve Thomas
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:58 PM, jerb wrote:
>
>>
>> Check this link out.
>> http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=12390
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
the airframe, or for an average private pilot, the engine.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Steve Thomas a crit :
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4
different mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do
not tell you which mounting they have offered.
Here's a link to the manufacturer data sheet :
http://www.enmco.com/pdf/675.PDF
Wag Aero's products seems to be the T54C1 'Rectangle Panel Mount w/ 2
Holes'.
Most interesting. No wire, no connection, no nothing ;-)
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
JOHN TIPTON a crit :
>
>
> I had a look at these items, and they all have a 8 year battery life, but
> cannot be replaced - does anyone not think this could be a problem !!!
>
You have a point here, but is replacing a 35-45 $ item every eight year
or so really a problem ?
How many batteries, hoses, filters, brake pads mechanical parts will we
have to replace before that time ?
Just thinking.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Rob Housman a crit :
>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
Actually I had in mind Reagan's famous "Trust but verify."
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Rob Housman a crit :
<rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> |
>
> To quote the data sheet: "Internal Lithium Battery 8 years plus
> non-replaceable." That makes it a bit difficult to measure total time on
> the airframe,
Like with any other hourmeter, just enter the total time and date of
replacement in the airframe or engine logbook.
Sounds to me like it is more hassle than benefit. Many
mechanics don't read all log entries for past years thus it gets forgotten.
Is there an alarm on the unit to indicate low battery, or does it just quit
and allow you to keep on flying without logging time??
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lopresti HID claims |
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
I order to avoid taking anything out of context I have posted the entire add from
Lopresti personnel on the COPA (Cirrus) forums at the end of this post. Here
is a link as well:
http://www.cirruspilots.org/forums/p/116256/479507.aspx#479507
They have made this same ridiculously exaggerated claim a few times in other adds
and on their website in the last couple of years, even from their employees
who claim to be "technical" and not "sales oriented."
"more light than a 747 and more than 1 million Lumens."
Facts are, a 35 watt HID including the ballast requires about 40 watts (input)
to operate. It produces about 3200 lumens = Net result 91.4 lumens per watt from
the bulb (35w) but including the ballast power losses, 80 lumens per watt,
power going into the ballast. Now for a 50 watt HID (output to the bulb) the ballast
will pull about 56 watts. This system produces about 5300 lumens. That
makes 106 lumens per watt from the bulb and 95 lumens per watt again including
the ballast losses.
Using these numbers plugged into the Lopresti claim of 1 million Lumens seen below.
Here is the actual math: with 5300 lumens from a 50 watt HID you would need
188 HID systems to produce 1 million lumens.
Using instead 35 watt HID systems as they typically do, producing 3200 lumens each,
it would require 312 HID systems. Obviously impossible. They are confusing
Lumens with candlepower which are totally different. measurements with much
different meanings. To produce 1,000,000 lumens using HID would require 800-1000
amps in a 12/14 VDC system or 10,500 to 12,500 watts (10.5 KW or 12.5 KW) To
accomplish this you would need some VERY BIG capacity alternators or a ~20 HP
generator just to run the lights. I won't waste any more time to show how rediculous
this claim is.
I can also assure you that a 747 has MUCH more landing light lumens output than
the 3 HID lights Lopresti is selling in this package offering.
The arguement could be made that this (747 statement) is meant as a "tongue in
cheek" statement but the 1,000,000 lumens claim cannot.
I wish someone would "call them on the carpet" for these un challenged claims.
If anyone here is a COPA member or knows someone who is, please do so.
My point is they claim to be the experts on HID but then this kind of false information
comes much (ALL) too frequently from them. When marketing their HID products.
Dan Blumel - XeVision
av8her Posted: 4 Dec 2009 12:32
rated by 0 users "But what if I want ALL your lights?
You asked, so we're answering...
LoPresti is pleased to offer a COPA-exclusive package deal for our SR22 G1/G2 TriTips,
bundled with our X2 BoomBeam cowling light for $5995.00 (Retail $7443.00)
This is the most comprehensive lighting offer we have ever extended to COPA members.
With this package, your light output be over 1 million Lumens!! Just to
give you an idea of the scale of that measurement that's more light than a Boeing
747.
Aircraft lighting is not only important for safety of flight at night, but it is
also imperative for daytime flight recognition. New automotive and motorcycle
manufacturers clearly understand the safety benefits "Lights on" 24/7.
Details: The X2 technology, developed by LoPresti Aviation, is a powerful High
Intensity Discharge (HID) lighting system designed specifically for aviation that
consumes less power while increasing light output 300%-500% (tunable)!! The
TriTips are modified wing tips that have HID BoomBeam lights in each side. To
install the light pocket in your existing tips, we will bond the lighting system
behind a custom designed lens assembly. (Your decals will be stripped off
and your tips repainted Cirrus white).
* This offer is limited to one group of 10 COPA members by January 31, 2010.
* In order to be included on the list, you must sign up on the COPA thread for
this discount.
List price: TriTips $6495, X2 BoomBeam $948 = $7,443 (+ S&H)
COPA offer - lighting package: TriTips and X2 BoomBeam = $5995 (+ S&H)
Shipping for this mod is $250-$500.
This offer applies to SR22 serial numbers 0002 thru 2437.
Allison Bergan
allison(at)loprestaviation.com
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276380#276380
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
>
>"more light than a 747 and more than 1 million Lumens."
>Using these numbers plugged into the Lopresti claim of 1 million
>Lumens seen below. Here is the actual math: with 5300 lumens from a
>50 watt HID you would need 188 HID systems to produce 1 million lumens.
I'm wondering if they're not confusing LUMENS of total
light output with a luminance of 1,000,000 Beam Center
Candle Power.
>My point is they claim to be the experts on HID but then this kind
>of false information comes much (ALL) too frequently from them. When
>marketing their HID products.
Yeah . . . that 747 thing seems a bit of a stretch.
Raytheon did some light measurements on a Lopresti
system we installed on a Bonanza about 10 years ago.
I'll see if I can dig up the report. BTW, the system
they were offering then was not selected for production . . .
but then I don't know who was driving the program either.
It may have been a simple, inquisitive look-see.
But I do recall that some folks from the metrics
lab took some pattern data on the fixture.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
| From: | "XeVision" <dblumel(at)XeVision.com> |
Yes, I agree but they used to talk candle power for at least 5 years prior then
recently (2-3 years ago) switched to using Lumens instead.
Just added this to the first post.
Here is another link advertising this "hype": http://media.sbwire.com/files/Cirrus_AD.pdf
Just do a google search on "lopresti 1 million lumens" and you will find many pages
of this stuff over the last 2-3 years. Anywhere from 750,000 lumens combined
output from 2 lights to over 1,000,000 lumens from 3 of their HID lights of
combined output. We even told AeroNews about the problem (wrote Jim a letter,
which he did get) a couple of years ago when they did a "news" article (adds
credibility) including those claims and debunking it from a technical viewpoint
as I just did here. Jim never responded except to getting it, I guess he never
passed it on to them for comment ???
Dan
--------
LED still has a long way to go to compete with HID as a landing light. This is
true in terms of total lumens and reach (distance).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276397#276397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | It's a mystery to me |
The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I took
it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's instructions. All
went well but when I put it back in the plane it was running
backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap switch. I didn't
switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug that only goes one way.
I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make it
run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Steve Hamer
RV-6 flying
Apple Valley, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
At 12:12 PM 12/4/2009, you wrote:
>
>The Engine and Main buss are basically duplicates with the following:
>
>1. EFI 4a
>2. ECU 1a
>3. Pri Fuel Pump 7.5a
>4. Sec Fuel Pump 7.5a (only one running except take off and landing)
>5. Electric Constant Speed Prop 4.5a (9a peak)
Hmmm . . . Sounds like you're splitting engine electrical
source duties between on battery bus and the main bus. I
presume you're combining the dual path sources with
a diode-pair.
The battery bus really needs to be close to the battery
if you subscribe to the notion of minimizing the length
and fusing of always hot-wires. If you want to extend
a bus feeder to some more forward location, conventional
wisdom calls for a "mini-contactor" or power relay like
that suggested in Z-32 for a "heavy-duty e-bus".
I think I'd leave the relay out and run the long wires
to small fuses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's a mystery to me |
At 07:05 PM 12/5/2009, you wrote:
>The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I
>took it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's
>instructions. All went well but when I put it back in the plane it
>was running backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap
>switch. I didn't switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug
>that only goes one way. I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
>So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make
>it run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Did you put witness marks on the end-bell that
holds the brushes? I believe this is a permanent
magnet motor. Simply installing the brush holders
180 degrees out of position has the same effect
as flipping the two wires. Similarly, the field
ring that mounts the magnets may have been clocked
180 degrees out.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It's a mystery to me |
Bob,
The brushes are housed in a unit that only goes on one way. I must have
got the magnets in 180 out. There was a batch of these units that
apparently had too much grease in the gear box and it somehow migrates
past the o-ring that seals between the gear box and the motor. The
current flap motors don't seem to have the problem.
Thanks for clearing up my mystery.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: It's a mystery to me
At 07:05 PM 12/5/2009, you wrote:
The flap motor on my RV-6 was occasionally not wanting to run so I
took it apart and cleaned up the excess grease per Van's instructions.
All went well but when I put it back in the plane it was running
backwards...down was up and up was down with the flap switch. I didn't
switch the wiring because I had a two wire plug that only goes one way.
I changed the wires to make it work correctly.
So, what did I do to the motor when I put it back together to make
it run in reverse? I'm just curious.
Did you put witness marks on the end-bell that
holds the brushes? I believe this is a permanent
magnet motor. Simply installing the brush holders
180 degrees out of position has the same effect
as flipping the two wires. Similarly, the field
ring that mounts the magnets may have been clocked
180 degrees out.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | It's a mystery to me |
Bob -
This failure mode is common among the early flap motors. There was no seal
between the motor and the lead-screw mechanism, and grease would eventually
work into the motor housing. The design has changed, but the "fix" was a SB
to disassemble / clean / reassemble.
Neal
===========.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
At 07:06 PM 12/5/2009, you wrote:
>
>Yes, I agree but they used to talk candle power for at least 5 years
>prior then recently (2-3 years ago) switched to using Lumens instead.
>
>Just added this to the first post.
>
>Here is another link advertising this "hype":
>http://media.sbwire.com/files/Cirrus_AD.pdf
>
>Just do a google search on "lopresti 1 million lumens" and you will
>find many pages of this stuff over the last 2-3 years. Anywhere from
>750,000 lumens combined output from 2 lights to over 1,000,000
>lumens from 3 of their HID lights of combined output. We even told
>AeroNews about the problem (wrote Jim a letter, which he did get) a
>couple of years ago when they did a "news" article (adds
>credibility) including those claims and debunking it from a
>technical viewpoint as I just did here. Jim never responded except
>to getting it, I guess he never passed it on to them for comment ???
Interesting . . . and somewhat disappointing. I did
some work for Roy while he was at Mooney. I think
we (Electro-Mech and Mooney) was the first team to
use a microprocessor based trim position manager
that would automatically adjust magnitude and sign
of a servo-antiservo tab in response to pitch trim
position. The idea was to provide a constant stick-force
per G of vertical acceleration over the full range of
operating speeds. We flew it on the M-30. The processes
and science for that endeavor could not be fudged.
I would hope that the Lopresti quest for doing good
engineering was still present and strong.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: It's a mystery to me |
I have the later version of the flap motor assembly and it too is prone
to the same problem. After 500 hours, my flap motor became inoperative
due to grease in the brush area. The disassemble, clean and reasemble
process solved the problem.
Best regards,
Bill
RV-7 N151WP
Lee's Summit, MO
----- Original Message -----
From: Neal George
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: It's a mystery to me
Bob -
This failure mode is common among the early flap motors. There was no
seal between the motor and the lead-screw mechanism, and grease would
eventually work into the motor housing. The design has changed, but the
"fix" was a SB to disassemble / clean / reassemble.
Neal
===========.
How was grease getting into the motor? Normally,
there are no lubricants in a motor that put the
brushes/commutator at risk for contamination.
Gooey stuff on the comm is VERY hard on surface
life.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
At 04:21 PM 11/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> > ???? how was the plastic on the PIDG terminal being
> > compromised???
>
>
>The metal insulation closure when pinched down poked through the
>outer preinsulation. I thought I was getting a decent device when I
>bought the Crimpmaster. I found that terminals don't fit well in it,
>both in the direction of the wire and in the direction of the
>handle. I tried a few different adjustments and gave up. I have done
>almost all of my crimping with a GB cheapo I have and pull tested
>enough to know when it's good.
Are you sure you have the right die-set
for the Crimpmaster? As I recall, there's
a suite of interchangeable dies offered
for that tool. I'd be interested in seeing
what you have. I'll pay the postage back
if you pay the postage to me. Send me some
of the terminals you're using too.
--------------------------------------
I received your tool and tested it with
AMP PIDG terminals and found the finished
results to be satisfactory. You didn't
send me any of the terminals you're using
but I suspect they are not AMP parts. There
are perhaps dozens of pre-insulated terminals
that are 'qualified' to widely accepted
specifications no the least of which is . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Mil-Specs/Mil-T-7928slash4.pdf
Can you tell us what the brand and part numbers
are for terminals you're using?
Some years ago a local supplier offered me some
'qualified' terminals that worked pretty good with
$high$ PIDG tooling but looked like @#$@ when
installed with our $low$ favorite tool:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/JST_Samples_2.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Protection of wires not feed from the bus . . . |
Bob,
thanks for your reply, my question was not clear.
I plan to use 2 of the multi-slot fuseblocks you show in AeroElectric
Connection for power distribution, one as a master buss, the other
for an avionics buss.
I also need a multi blade fuse holder for other in-line applications,
wires that do not terminate at either buss, for example, i need two 1
amp fuses inline on each wire between the shunt and the EFIS, etc.
I have seen blade fuse holders at auto stores that hold 6-12 fuses,
however, these don't appear to be great quality, can you suggest
something suitable?
The fuses needed for protection of individual
wires NOT powered directly from a distribution
bus are located as close as practical to the
end of the wire from which the SOURCE of risk-
energy is connected.
E.g. note that fusible links on shunts in the
z-figures are AT THE SHUNTS. B-lead fuses for
alternators are located at the end of the wire
AWAY from the alternator. Alternators cannot
blow their own b-lead protection . . . but the
battery to which they attach can source many
hundreds of amps of fault current.
So your quest for an ASSEMBLY of independent
fuses to be wired into a variety of wires
needing protection doesn't make sense. The
style of fuse holder you're asking about DOES
exist in a number of products:
Emacs!
This photo is for one such device. But it's
utility is LIMITED to a few instances where
RISK ENERGY SOURCES for all wires to be
protected is located close by.
For the instances in the Z-figures where
single lines are fused, in-line fuse holders
are recommended. Avoid any style that uses
cartridge fuses:
Emacs!
Holders for blade terminal fuses are preferred
for longest service life:
Emacs!
Splice these into the protected wire as close
as practical to the risk energy source.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan's Switches |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Bob.
They were AMP, PIDG. Red and yellow fastons from B&C.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276526#276526
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ideal Crimpmaster |
At 09:03 PM 12/6/2009, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob.
>
>They were AMP, PIDG. Red and yellow fastons from B&C.
Hmmmm . . . I'm mystified as to why you were
experiencing poor finish on your crimps.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
$21 at Allied. Has 8 year battery. Hard to beat.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU 70077
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hobbs Meter
Steve Thomas a crit :
>
> I was looking at the manufacturers site and notice that they offer 4 different
mounting methods for this meter. Wag Aero and Aircraft Spruce do not tell you
which mounting they have offered.
Here's a link to the manufacturer data sheet :
http://www.enmco.com/pdf/675.PDF
Wag Aero's products seems to be the T54C1 'Rectangle Panel Mount w/ 2
Holes'.
Most interesting. No wire, no connection, no nothing ;-)
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dual Battery Contactor |
Just came across a new (to me) product from Cole Hersee. This is a battery contatctor
with a dual battery voltage sensor and control module added on. From
the literature this appears to be a simple solution to automatic isolation and
control of a dual battery, single alternator electrical system.
Take a look at the lit. and comment. Upon first blush this appears to supplant
the dual contactor with a single contactor and a voltage sense and control circuit.
http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/hot_feed/D-617_SmartBatteryIso.pdf
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Switchology Question |
| From: | "logansc" <lee.logan(at)gulfstream.com> |
Guys: I have a newly finished Rocket, wired IAW Z13-8. My system has a big battery,
a 60 amp alternator (Plane Power) and an SD-8 backup. I have not tested
the SD-8 yet and was wondering if there is a protocol for that, that I should
observe.
I have a three position main DC Master switch (off, Batt, on) and no avionics master
(I prefer turning each on and off individually). I also have separate E-bus
Alt Feed and Aux Alternator on-off switches. I plan to test my SD-8 on the
ground with all my avionics off except my engine monitor (which has my volt
and ammeters) to see if it is wired correctly and shows Aux Alternator output.
Should I start on the main system, turn on the engine monitor, and then switch
the main to Batt, and then the E-bus on, and then the Aux Alt on, and then
the Batt off?
If that is all correct, then airborne if I lose or shut down the main alternator,
is the sequence the same? Haven't got the diagrams with me at the moment and
I'm trying to write a procedure. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lee...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276607#276607
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lopresti HID claims |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Thanks,
We are fortunate that electrical units started out metric and haven't changed a
bit. (Okay, there were Mhos, CPS and a few stragglers). Photometric units contain
plenty of traps for the unwary.
BTW: "Cree Achieves 186 Lumens per Watt from a High-Power LED
High-performance chip and R&D package combine for record-setting efficacy"
Amazing.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276618#276618
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David LLoyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Contactor |
Chris,
Thanks for the tip and lead on a great solution for preserving alternators
from high stress loads...
David
C185D
Grants Pass, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Stone" <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual Battery Contactor
>
> Just came across a new (to me) product from Cole Hersee. This is a
> battery contatctor with a dual battery voltage sensor and control module
> added on. From the literature this appears to be a simple solution to
> automatic isolation and control of a dual battery, single alternator
> electrical system.
>
> Take a look at the lit. and comment. Upon first blush this appears to
> supplant the dual contactor with a single contactor and a voltage sense
> and control circuit.
>
> http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/hot_feed/D-617_SmartBatteryIso.pdf
>
>
> Chris Stone
> RV-8
> Newberg, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Contactor |
Chris Stone wrote:
> Just came across a new (to me) product from Cole Hersee. This is a battery
> contatctor with a dual battery voltage sensor and control module added on.
> From the literature this appears to be a simple solution to automatic
> isolation and control of a dual battery, single alternator electrical system.
>
>
> Take a look at the lit. and comment. Upon first blush this appears to
> supplant the dual contactor with a single contactor and a voltage sense and
> control circuit.
>
> http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/hot_feed/D-617_SmartBatteryIso.pdf
This looks very much like what Yandina (marine electronics) calls a combiner. I
have one on my 1976 GMC motor home. It is installed across the factory installed
isolator (diode). The difference that I see, is that the combiner we're using on
our motor homes works both directions (i.e. chassis -> house and house ->
chassis). What this means is that if we are on the road it charges the house
battery(s) and if we are docked with shore power (or the generator running), the
chassis battery will also be charged.
It works as advertised and I'm happy with it. I have the Cobiner 100 (good for
a
100 amp alternator). It lists at $79.95 and on sale for $59.95 which is what I
paid.
Regards,
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switchology Question |
At 01:40 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>
>Guys: I have a newly finished Rocket, wired IAW Z13-8. My system
>has a big battery, a 60 amp alternator (Plane Power) and an SD-8
>backup. I have not tested the SD-8 yet and was wondering if there
>is a protocol for that, that I should observe.
>
>I have a three position main DC Master switch (off, Batt, on) and no
>avionics master (I prefer turning each on and off individually). I
>also have separate E-bus Alt Feed and Aux Alternator on-off
>switches. I plan to test my SD-8 on the ground with all my avionics
>off except my engine monitor (which has my volt and ammeters) to see
>if it is wired correctly and shows Aux Alternator output. Should I
>start on the main system, turn on the engine monitor, and then
>switch the main to Batt, and then the E-bus on, and then the Aux Alt
>on, and then the Batt off?
>
>If that is all correct, then airborne if I lose or shut down the
>main alternator, is the sequence the same? Haven't got the diagrams
>with me at the moment and I'm trying to write a procedure. Any help
>would be appreciated.
You can't hurt anything with by mis-positioning switches.
You won't see any output from the SD-8 without being
well above 2000 rpm. So you can craft any procedure that
makes sense to you.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Battery Contactor |
At 12:01 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>Just came across a new (to me) product from Cole Hersee. This is a
>battery contatctor with a dual battery voltage sensor and control
>module added on. From the literature this appears to be a simple
>solution to automatic isolation and control of a dual battery,
>single alternator electrical system.
>
>Take a look at the lit. and comment. Upon first blush this appears
>to supplant the dual contactor with a single contactor and a voltage
>sense and control circuit.
>http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/hot_feed/D-617_SmartBatteryIso.pdf
>
It appears to be a "smart" contactor that doesn't close
until the upstream system voltage exceeds 13.2 volts.
It appears also that you can force the contactor closed
for cranking assist.
I.e. just like a plain vanilla aux battery contactor with
an aux battery management module built in. You'd still
have a manually switched battery master contactor.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z19RB Engine Battery Buss Question |
| From: | "ZuluZephyr" <zuluzephyr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Bob,
You are correct, I am planning on using diodes. I have not looked at Z32 but I
believe long wires and small fuses make sense.
Thanks,
Rocky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276664#276664
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Switchology Question |
| From: | "logansc" <lee.logan(at)gulfstream.com> |
Bob: Thanks for the response. I'll work out a "switchology" sequence today and
try it this afternoon.
Regards,
Lee...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276676#276676
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bakerocb(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Who Has Got The Time? |
12/6/2009 (and again on 11/8/2009)
Hello Fellow Pilots and Builders, The aeroelectric list has been filled
lately with discussions of hardware (meters) that keep track of time. Just
exactly what time is being kept, and for what purpose, is unclear. To shed
some light on the subject let's start by taking a look at what 14 CFR
(FAR's) say about time.
We'll take flight time first, then TIS (Time In Service):
1) Here is how pilot flight time is defined in section 1.1 of the FAR's :
"Flight time means: Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under
its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to
rest after landing;"
I am not aware of any meter that could keep accurate track of such time.
You'll find many pilots, and airlines, that do not keep track of flight /
pilot time in conformance with this definition. Standard compliance by all
pilots with this definition is unlikely because there is room for
interpretation.
Does "moves under its own power for the purpose of flight" mean the instant
the wheels start to roll as you leave the parking space in order to go
flying? Then that XXX minutes plus that you spend taxiing, doing engine run
up, and waiting for takeoff clearance at the end of the runway, would all be
flight time. Considering the delays involved in operating at some airports
one could become a multi thousand hour flight time pilot very quickly using
that interpretation.
On the other hand one is certainly exercising some very important PIC duties
from the time he leaves the parking space until starting takeoff roll.
Should all of that time be ignored and not recognized in some fashion?
2) Here is how section 1.1 of FAR's defines TIS (Time In Service):
"Time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, means the time
from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches
it at the next point of landing."
I suppose that there is hardware that could record this exact time, but it
certainly is not in common use in our category of airplanes.
So let's take a look at three common timing devices: the Hobbs meter, the
mechanical engine RPM based tachometer, and the software associated with
electronic flight instrumentation or engine instrumentation:
A) The Hobbs meter (you can look here for a quick review):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbs_meter
It doesn't take very long to conclude that "Hobbs meter" has become a very
generic term (like Kleenex or Scotch tape) and that Hobbs meters come in
wide varieties and can be connected to record a wide variety of time. I
guess it is possible for a Hobbs meter to be connected up so that it records
one of the time definitions in the FAR's, but it doesn't seem easy.
B) FAR 91.205 (a) and (b) require an engine tachometer to be installed in
any powered standard category civil aircraft even for day VFR operations. By
far the most common type of tachometer found is the mechanical RPM based
tachometer. Presumably the purpose of the required tachometer is to inform
the pilot of his engine's RPM at any given instant, but somewhere along the
line these tachometers began including the total time of engine operation.
This required someone to decide how to convert instantaneous RPM into total
elapsed time of engine operation.
If, say 2,000 RPM were chosen as the standard mechanical ratio to convert
one minute at this RPM into one minute of elapsed engine operating time then
any engine operation at less than 2,000 RPM generates less than one minute
of elapsed engine operating time and any RPM greater than 2,000 generates
more than one minute of elapsed engine operating time. See some of the
tachometer conversion ratios between RPM and time available here:
http://tghaviation.rtrk.com/?scid=387399&kw=3649251
In any case it does not appear that any mechanical engine tachometer can
generate either of the elapsed times defined by the FAR's.
C) There is such a huge variety of electronic flight and engine
instrumentation systems and their associated software (and the ability of
the operator to modify the software in some cases) that any accurate
comparison of one airplane's / engine's / pilot's time to another airplane's
/ engine's / pilot's time would require some detailed examination of the
processes used to generate that time.
Again the probability that an electronic system would automatically generate
November 20, 2009 - December 08, 2009
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-jd