AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-js
September 03, 2010 - September 28, 2010
> >Joe
>
> Right on. I'll also suggest that unless the
> relay is really desirable from the perspective
> of reducing numbers of wires at the panel controls
> you might consider using just a DPDT switch
> as shown on the third page of:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS |
John;
The drawing is a little small to see the detail clearly but....
Yes, I think you've got it. (you've depicted a four pole switch, one pole of
which you aren't using which is fine.)
You need a second wire to your load meter from the upper pole of the switch
to complete the shunt circuit.
The progressive transfer feature which I think you've depicted on the upper
two poles isn't needed.
The switch need be only two position double throw, without a centre off
position which it appears you've drawn.
But yes, this is basically correct without nitpicking the drawing details
which are waaay superior to anything I could come up with.:-):-):-)
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Volkober
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
Like this:
I tend to have a habit of taking the long way around the bush.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
So use a 3PDT switch for turning on the aux alternator. One pole switches
the alternator on/off the other two switch the shunts. ????????
Bob McC
> From: jvolkober(at)comcast.net
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:15:21 -0700
>
>
> I thought about the using the switch directly and may still do that. Using
> the relay tied to the switch for the auxiliary alternator set it up so the
> shunt selection would occur when the auxiliary alternator was turned on,
> eliminating the need to toggle two switches.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:07 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
>
>
>
> At 06:08 AM 9/3/2010, you wrote:
> >
> >Do not connect the two shunts in parallel. Doing that is the same
> >as connecting the two alternators in parallel. The Dynon would read
> >the higher of the two voltages, not the sum. Using a relay will work.
> >Joe
>
> Right on. I'll also suggest that unless the
> relay is really desirable from the perspective
> of reducing numbers of wires at the panel controls
> you might consider using just a DPDT switch
> as shown on the third page of:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS |
John;
The drawing is a little small to see the detail clearly but....
Yes, I think you've got it. (you've depicted a four pole switch, one pole of
which you aren't using which is fine.)
You need a second wire to your load meter from the upper pole of the switch
to complete the shunt circuit.
The progressive transfer feature which I think you've depicted on the upper
two poles isn't needed.
The switch need be only two position double throw, without a centre off
position which it appears you've drawn.
But yes, this is basically correct without nitpicking the drawing details
which are waaay superior to anything I could come up with.:-):-):-)
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Volkober
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
Like this:
I tend to have a habit of taking the long way around the bush.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
So use a 3PDT switch for turning on the aux alternator. One pole switches
the alternator on/off the other two switch the shunts. ????????
Bob McC
> From: jvolkober(at)comcast.net
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:15:21 -0700
>
>
> I thought about the using the switch directly and may still do that. Using
> the relay tied to the switch for the auxiliary alternator set it up so the
> shunt selection would occur when the auxiliary alternator was turned on,
> eliminating the need to toggle two switches.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:07 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
>
>
>
> At 06:08 AM 9/3/2010, you wrote:
> >
> >Do not connect the two shunts in parallel. Doing that is the same
> >as connecting the two alternators in parallel. The Dynon would read
> >the higher of the two voltages, not the sum. Using a relay will work.
> >Joe
>
> Right on. I'll also suggest that unless the
> relay is really desirable from the perspective
> of reducing numbers of wires at the panel controls
> you might consider using just a DPDT switch
> as shown on the third page of:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | darnpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Noise |
It is alternator noise. Pull the alternator cb and the noise goes away.
I can also hear my flap and fuel pump motors when they run.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 3, 2010, at 10:09 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
> At 07:17 PM 9/2/2010, you wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> More data points:
>> I installed a portable intercom in my plane. Its plugged in the new
Pilot mic & phone jacks. With only the internal 9v battery powering the
unit, I still get the noise in my headsets, but it is tolerable.
Intercom off = no noise. When I power the portable intercom from
ships power the noise is louder, but still tolerable...barely.
>
> Hmmmmm . . . What is the nature of the noise?
> whine, rumble, static, does it's pitch or repetition
> rate change with engine RPM. Does the noise go
> away if EVERYTHING else is off while only the
> radio/intercom pair is operating?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | darnpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Noise |
Pull alt cb and no noise. No different with any radio configuration. I
also get noise occasionally from the electric motors of the flaps and
fuel pump when they are run. When I use the portable (9v) intercom the
noise is less, but still there. When I use ships power, the noise is a
little worse, but much less than the installed Sigtronics intercom. When
I use no intercom at all I can barely hear any noise, but it is still
there.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 3, 2010, at 12:05 PM, "Bruce Gray" wrote:
> Trouble shooting electronic gremlins requires a systematic approach.
The most important thing to remember is to only change one variable at a
time.
>
>
>
> If you have swapped headsets and the noise remained, we can rule out
bad headsets.
>
>
>
> I would suggest the following decision tree.
>
>
>
> 1) Test the intercom in another aircraft if possible. If the
problem follows the intercom, the intercom is bad.
>
> 2) Test with the engine and ALL other electrical devices OFF
except the intercom. If no noise proceed to 3
>
> 3) Repeat 2 with engine running and ALT off.
>
> 4) Repeat 2 with engine and ALT on.
>
> 5) With engine off, turn on separately each other piece of
electronics.
>
> 6) Repeat 5 with engine and ALT on.
>
>
>
> Get back to me with the results.
>
>
>
> Are you using shielded wire? Is the shield only grounded at one end
(which is correct)?
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:46 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
>
>
> Bruce. Why? Tell me more?
>
>
>
> I've used several different type headsets and they all have the same
issue.
>
> Jeff Darnall
>
> Jacksonville, FL
>
> 904-234-8718
>
> __i__
>
> *-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Gray <bgray(at)glasair.org>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:41 pm
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
> I=99d say it=99s time to look at your headsets.
>
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:17 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> More data points:
>
> I installed a portable intercom in my plane. Its plugged in the new
Pilot mic & phone jacks. With only the internal 9v battery powering the
unit, I still get the noise in my headsets, but it is tolerable.
Intercom off = no noise. When I power the portable intercom from
ships power the noise is louder, but still tolerable...barely.
>
>
>
> Any ideas now?
>
> Jeff Darnall
>
> Jacksonville, FL
>
> 904-234-8718
>
> __i__
>
> *-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ==========
> List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Titsworth" <rtitsworth2(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | SD20 and LS-1A 'net' available power |
Bob,
I am doing some system load planning/balancing for a Z14 dual bat/dual bus
type setup. I have 28V SD20 and LS-1A as Alt#2. For the sake of
discussion, assume the alternator is turning 3500 rpm and generating 20amps
of current (per spec).
How much of this current/power would typically be re-consumed to drive the
regulator/alternator field at max 20 amp load (i.e. what is the available
"net" power)?
I know the std/recommended LS-1A setup has a 2A breaker on the sensing lead
and a 5A breaker on the field lead, but I'm guessing it actually consumes
less than 7 amps of it's 20 amp output (or is that already 'netted out' of
the 20 amp spec).
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bgray(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Noise |
Then the problem is an ALT diode or a wiring ground/shield error.
The easiest to check is the ALT. Pull it and send it to your favorite
auto electric overhaul shop.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Pull alt cb and no noise. No different with any radio configuration. I
also get noise occasionally from the electric motors of the flaps and
fuel pump when they are run. When I use the portable (9v) intercom the
noise is less, but still there. When I use ships power, the noise is a
little worse, but much less than the installed Sigtronics intercom. When
I use no intercom at all I can barely hear any noise, but it is still
there.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 3, 2010, at 12:05 PM, "Bruce Gray" wrote:
Trouble shooting electronic gremlins requires a systematic approach. The
most important thing to remember is to only change one variable at a
time.
If you have swapped headsets and the noise remained, we can rule out bad
headsets.
I would suggest the following decision tree.
1) Test the intercom in another aircraft if possible. If the problem
follows the intercom, the intercom is bad.
2) Test with the engine and ALL other electrical devices OFF except
the intercom. If no noise proceed to 3
3) Repeat 2 with engine running and ALT off.
4) Repeat 2 with engine and ALT on.
5) With engine off, turn on separately each other piece of
electronics.
6) Repeat 5 with engine and ALT on.
Get back to me with the results.
Are you using shielded wire? Is the shield only grounded at one end
(which is correct)?
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Bruce. Why? Tell me more?
I've used several different type headsets and they all have the same
issue.
Jeff Darnall
Jacksonville, FL
904-234-8718
__i__
*-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Gray <bgray(at)glasair.org>
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:41 pm
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
I'd say it's time to look at your headsets.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org <http://www.glasair.org/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Bob,
More data points:
I installed a portable intercom in my plane. Its plugged in the new
Pilot mic & phone jacks. With only the internal 9v battery powering the
unit, I still get the noise in my headsets, but it is tolerable.
Intercom off = no noise. When I power the portable intercom from ships
power the noise is louder, but still tolerable...barely.
Any ideas now?
Jeff Darnall
Jacksonville, FL
904-234-8718
__i__
*-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
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--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ntribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring diagram for Jabiru 3300 with a SD 8 on the Vac |
Pad
| From: | "ple190" <plge190(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Has anyone got a wiring diagram for this setup, the Z12 setup is close but needs
some mod for the jab 3300 and different regulators. Any suggestions appreciated.
Can both alternates feed continuously into the main bus and battery ?
I'm setting up for IFR so need a bit more juice than the j3300 Alt provides
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311343#311343
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | darnpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Noise |
Then why would I also be getting noise from my flap and fuel pump
motors?
The alternator and the voltage regulators were replaced during my
overhaul of the entire airplane.
I'm suspecting a ground problem. But just how to attack it is the
question. I (think) evereything is on one common
avionics ground buss.
I suppose my attack will be as follows:
Redo all the grounds at the ground bus.
Then recheck all the power leads.
Then get a filter plan on the power and/or ground.
(I've already put a big filter on the incoming alternator power line.)
Thoughts?
Jeff
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 4, 2010, at 12:05 AM, "Bruce Gray" wrote:
> Then the problem is an ALT diode or a wiring ground/shield error.
>
>
>
> The easiest to check is the ALT. Pull it and send it to your favorite
auto electric overhaul shop.
>
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:34 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
>
>
> Pull alt cb and no noise. No different with any radio configuration. I
also get noise occasionally from the electric motors of the flaps and
fuel pump when they are run. When I use the portable (9v) intercom the
noise is less, but still there. When I use ships power, the noise is a
little worse, but much less than the installed Sigtronics intercom. When
I use no intercom at all I can barely hear any noise, but it is still
there.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2010, at 12:05 PM, "Bruce Gray" wrote:
>
>> Trouble shooting electronic gremlins requires a systematic approach.
The most important thing to remember is to only change one variable at a
time.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have swapped headsets and the noise remained, we can rule out
bad headsets.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would suggest the following decision tree.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Test the intercom in another aircraft if possible. If the
problem follows the intercom, the intercom is bad.
>>
>> 2) Test with the engine and ALL other electrical devices OFF
except the intercom. If no noise proceed to 3
>>
>> 3) Repeat 2 with engine running and ALT off.
>>
>> 4) Repeat 2 with engine and ALT on.
>>
>> 5) With engine off, turn on separately each other piece of
electronics.
>>
>> 6) Repeat 5 with engine and ALT on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get back to me with the results.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you using shielded wire? Is the shield only grounded at one end
(which is correct)?
>>
>> Bruce
>> www.Glasair.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:46 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce. Why? Tell me more?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've used several different type headsets and they all have the same
issue.
>>
>> Jeff Darnall
>>
>> Jacksonville, FL
>>
>> 904-234-8718
>>
>> __i__
>>
>> *-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Gray <bgray(at)glasair.org>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:41 pm
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
> I=99d say it=99s time to look at your headsets.
>
>
>
> Bruce
> www.Glasair.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:17 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> More data points:
>
> I installed a portable intercom in my plane. Its plugged in the new
Pilot mic & phone jacks. With only the internal 9v battery powering the
unit, I still get the noise in my headsets, but it is tolerable.
Intercom off = no noise. When I power the portable intercom from
ships power the noise is louder, but still tolerable...barely.
>
>
>
> Any ideas now?
>
> Jeff Darnall
>
> Jacksonville, FL
>
> 904-234-8718
>
> __i__
>
> *-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ==========
> List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
> - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Please explain this connector. |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi Group
Can anyone explain:
**This connector to me?
**Exactly what type of wire the one is with the red translucent covering?
**Are these connectors and wire still commonly used today?
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=82207
Perhaps the jet was built in modular sections and uses these connectors to connect
one section to the next?
Select Full size 2592 x 1944 for better resolution.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311360#311360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Volkober" <jvolkober(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS |
Thank you for the feedback. I did leave off the one wire for the load
meter. I'll take a look at the "book" and make sure I order the
correct
switch for the job.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
John;
The drawing is a little small to see the detail clearly but....
Yes, I think you've got it. (you've depicted a four pole switch, one
pole of
which you aren't using which is fine.)
You need a second wire to your load meter from the upper pole of the
switch
to complete the shunt circuit.
The progressive transfer feature which I think you've depicted on the
upper
two poles isn't needed.
The switch need be only two position double throw, without a centre off
position which it appears you've drawn.
But yes, this is basically correct without nitpicking the drawing
details
which are waaay superior to anything I could come up with.:-):-):-)
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Volkober
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
Like this:
I tend to have a habit of taking the long way around the bush.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
So use a 3PDT switch for turning on the aux alternator. One pole
switches
the alternator on/off the other two switch the shunts. ????????
Bob McC
> From: jvolkober(at)comcast.net
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 09:15:21 -0700
>
>
> I thought about the using the switch directly and may still do that.
Using
> the relay tied to the switch for the auxiliary alternator set it up so
the
> shunt selection would occur when the auxiliary alternator was turned
on,
> eliminating the need to toggle two switches.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert
L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:07 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Shunts with Dynon EMS
>
>
>
> At 06:08 AM 9/3/2010, you wrote:
> >
> >Do not connect the two shunts in parallel. Doing that is the same
> >as connecting the two alternators in parallel. The Dynon would read
> >the higher of the two voltages, not the sum. Using a relay will work.
> >Joe
>
> Right on. I'll also suggest that unless the
> relay is really desirable from the perspective
> of reducing numbers of wires at the panel controls
> you might consider using just a DPDT switch
> as shown on the third page of:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===============
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
My starter contactor is the type that has two small terminals in addition to the
two large load 5/16" terminals.
I want to make sure that the spike catching diode is to be installed across the
"I" and "S" terminals so that the banded end of the diode faces the S terminal
and that there's a jumper from S to the hot side of the 5/16" terminals.
And does it matter which terminal (I or S) receives the switch leg of my START
button? I plan to use the I terminal for a stuck starter light.
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311362#311362
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Depending on who you got it from, it may already have the diode installed. Meanwhile,
here's the diagram that came with mine from B&C
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
>From: jonlaury <jonlaury(at)impulse.net>
>Sent: Sep 4, 2010 11:59 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: An Easy One
>
>
>My starter contactor is the type that has two small terminals in addition to the
two large load 5/16" terminals.
>
>I want to make sure that the spike catching diode is to be installed across the
"I" and "S" terminals so that the banded end of the diode faces the S terminal
and that there's a jumper from S to the hot side of the 5/16" terminals.
>
>And does it matter which terminal (I or S) receives the switch leg of my START
button? I plan to use the I terminal for a stuck starter light.
>
>Thanks,
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311362#311362
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please explain this connector. |
At 09:36 AM 9/4/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Group
>
>Can anyone explain:
>**This connector to me?
>**Exactly what type of wire the one is with the red translucent covering?
>**Are these connectors and wire still commonly used today?
>
>http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=82207
>
>Perhaps the jet was built in modular sections and uses these
>connectors to connect one section to the next?
>
>Select Full size 2592 x 1944 for better resolution.
These are one of many examples of devices crafted for
the IWTS (integrated wire termination systems) used
in many military, aerospace and high-end industrial
applications. Here's a toggle switch fitted with
IWTS
Emacs!
The idea behind it is to make as many of the system's
wire terminations with standard crimp tools as possible.
The terminal blocks you've found are just commoning points
for multiple branches of a circuit. Rather than crimp
on terminals and then attache with screws (ugh!) one
simple crimps on a pin (usually female) and stuffs
the pin into an environmentally sealed cavity to mate
with a captive pin therein.
Some of the earliest patents on this idea go back to
the 70's. Other products using this technology . . .
http://www.ducommun.com/pdf/jayel/10648.pdf
http://stevenengineering.com/tech_support/PDFs/31G-MS.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Ralph,
As you got yours from B&C, it's probably already got the diode internally. The
photo doesn't help me because it doesn't show diode installation/orientation.
I'm almost certain that the banded end faces the S terminal if it's between the
S & I. Less certain about the other questions, i.e. jumper, switch leg from START
switch, etc.
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311368#311368
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 10:59 AM 9/4/2010, you wrote:
>
>My starter contactor is the type that has two small terminals in
>addition to the two large load 5/16" terminals.
>
>I want to make sure that the spike catching diode is to be installed
>across the "I" and "S" terminals so that the banded end of the diode
>faces the S terminal and that there's a jumper from S to the hot
>side of the 5/16" terminals.
???? What diagrams are you looking at? if your starter
contactor looks like . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s702-1l.jpg
it MAY already have a diode installed. Look on the bottom
mounting flange. It might be marked "diode protected".
If not so marked, then the banded end of the diode
goes to the "S" terminal. The other end of the diode
goes to one of the mounting base bolts.
>And does it matter which terminal (I or S) receives the switch leg
>of my START button?
VERY much, the "S" terminal goes to the switch.
> I plan to use the I terminal for a stuck starter light.
Good.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram for Jabiru 3300 with a SD 8 on |
the Vac Pad
At 01:01 AM 9/4/2010, you wrote:
>
>Has anyone got a wiring diagram for this setup, the Z12 setup is
>close but needs some mod for the jab 3300 and different regulators.
>Any suggestions appreciated.
The z-figures are ARCHITECTURE drawings and not intended
to recommend or limit the kinds of regulators or alternators
used.
>Can both alternates feed continuously into the main bus and battery ?
>I'm setting up for IFR so need a bit more juice than the j3300 Alt provides
Hmmmm . . .what kind of IFR? Occasional penetration of
cloud cover? Occasional descent to conditions under
a cloud layer followed in short order by a published
approach?
The reason for asking is that setting up your system
to DEPEND on two mutually cooperating alternators
running in parallel for extended IFR ops, perhaps with
an autopilot, is not something I'd recommend for this
combination of hardware.
The idea behind all of Main/Aux alternator configurations
is that the main alternator does everything you need done
for all normal operations. The Aux alternator wilt get
you on the ground if the Main alternator is not available
but with a reduced power budget. Do I infer correctly that
your proposed IFR ops takes more than 15A to keep necessary
things operational?
What does your load analysis look like for your
IFR ops?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Please explain this connector. |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi Bob
Thx. for the explanation on the connector.
Can you shed some light on the wire that has red translucent insulation?
" **Exactly what type of wire the one is with the red translucent covering? "
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=82207
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311375#311375
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bgray(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Noise |
I know you want to start digging into the wiring, and your noise from
other devices indicates that there is some problems there, but PLEASE
pull the ALT and take it to an auto electric shop and have them check
the diodes. There is thing called "infant mortality" in this industry
(out of box failure).
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Then why would I also be getting noise from my flap and fuel pump
motors?
The alternator and the voltage regulators were replaced during my
overhaul of the entire airplane.
I'm suspecting a ground problem. But just how to attack it is the
question. I (think) evereything is on one common
avionics ground buss.
I suppose my attack will be as follows:
Redo all the grounds at the ground bus.
Then recheck all the power leads.
Then get a filter plan on the power and/or ground.
(I've already put a big filter on the incoming alternator power line.)
Thoughts?
Jeff
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 4, 2010, at 12:05 AM, "Bruce Gray" wrote:
Then the problem is an ALT diode or a wiring ground/shield error.
The easiest to check is the ALT. Pull it and send it to your favorite
auto electric overhaul shop.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Pull alt cb and no noise. No different with any radio configuration. I
also get noise occasionally from the electric motors of the flaps and
fuel pump when they are run. When I use the portable (9v) intercom the
noise is less, but still there. When I use ships power, the noise is a
little worse, but much less than the installed Sigtronics intercom. When
I use no intercom at all I can barely hear any noise, but it is still
there.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 3, 2010, at 12:05 PM, "Bruce Gray" <
bgray(at)glasair.org> wrote:
Trouble shooting electronic gremlins requires a systematic approach. The
most important thing to remember is to only change one variable at a
time.
If you have swapped headsets and the noise remained, we can rule out bad
headsets.
I would suggest the following decision tree.
1) Test the intercom in another aircraft if possible. If the problem
follows the intercom, the intercom is bad.
2) Test with the engine and ALL other electrical devices OFF except
the intercom. If no noise proceed to 3
3) Repeat 2 with engine running and ALT off.
4) Repeat 2 with engine and ALT on.
5) With engine off, turn on separately each other piece of
electronics.
6) Repeat 5 with engine and ALT on.
Get back to me with the results.
Are you using shielded wire? Is the shield only grounded at one end
(which is correct)?
Bruce
<http://www.Glasair.org> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:46 PM
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Bruce. Why? Tell me more?
I've used several different type headsets and they all have the same
issue.
Jeff Darnall
Jacksonville, FL
904-234-8718
__i__
*-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Gray < <mailto:bgray(at)glasair.org> bgray(at)glasair.org>
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 8:41 pm
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
I'd say it's time to look at your headsets.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
darnpilot(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:17 PM
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Intercom Noise
Bob,
More data points:
I installed a portable intercom in my plane. Its plugged in the new
Pilot mic & phone jacks. With only the internal 9v battery powering the
unit, I still get the noise in my headsets, but it is tolerable.
Intercom off = no noise. When I power the portable intercom from ships
power the noise is louder, but still tolerable...barely.
Any ideas now?
Jeff Darnall
Jacksonville, FL
904-234-8718
__i__
*-----o--o--(_)--o--o-----*
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: pretty red wire |
At 01:47 PM 9/4/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Bob
>
>Thx. for the explanation on the connector.
>
>Can you shed some light on the wire that has red translucent insulation?
I'm not familiar with any particular wire with
that appearance. Examination of the cut ends shows
that it is thin . . .
A number of years ago I participated in the
study of some wiring fires aboard models of the
Hawker that were assembled in the UK.
There were some very exotic insulation materials
involved . . . all thin, all light, all expensive,
most harder to work with, and some quite spectacular
when participating in an arc-fed fire.
These airplanes were assembled about the same time frame as my
tour of duty at Lear on the GP-180 program.
I think I've told the List members about conversations
and decisions made for getting 22759 Tefzel called
out on the airplane. During that same time, there
were a lot of companies trying to come up with a
new insulation that was thinnest and lightest of
all. In small wires, insulation weight is a much
larger proportion of wire weight.
Over the years, numerous examples of the wire
engineer's most fruitful ideas have found their
way onto airplanes. In some cases with expensive
if not disastrous results. There are wire bundles
totalling thousands of miles of wire flying today
that would scare the socks off you.
I cannot say that the pretty red wire is either
good or bad . . . without knowing the specifics
of it's makeup and qualification testing, it's
not possible to know. I can tell you that airplanes
are flying with lots of PVC and Tefzel wire with
very low risk after a half century of field
experience.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Housecleaning!!! |
Good lord but the exchanges are getting longer and longer. My Dad
said if you can't say it over the 'phone in 3 minutes, go over there!
Copying more than one previous thread is just laborious for us
thousands. Read the rules, girls.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon skyview current draw |
| From: | "ple190" <plge190(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Has anybody got any actual figures for the current draw of a dual screen skyview
system with back up bat and dual ahars ??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311410#311410
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram for Jabiru 3300 with a SD 8 on the |
Vac Pad
| From: | "ple190" <plge190(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Thanks Bob
It would only be occasional penetration of cloud for getting in or out not planning
to cruise in IMC. My load analysis is cruise about 15 amps but on approach
in Imc with lights off (all leds) and pitot on load is about 17 so not much
margin with the J3300 alternator (I'm estimating about 6 amps for a dual screen
Dynon skyview system ) Just don't want a discharge light on half way through
an approach !
Maybe its overkill to go dual Alternators ?
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311409#311409
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LED as LV Annunciator |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
I want to use an LED as a LV annunciator.
But from the products that AEC lists for driving LED's and what they do, I gather
that using LED's over incandescent lamps can cause noise problems.
Does using a couple of LED's with the appropriate resistor create noise antagonists?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311437#311437
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED as LV Annunciator |
At 10:42 AM 9/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>I want to use an LED as a LV annunciator.
>
>But from the products that AEC lists for driving LED's and what they
>do, I gather that using LED's over incandescent lamps can cause
>noise problems.
You must be reading the information published
concerning noise issues on POWER SUPPLIES used
to excite high intensity arrays of LEDs.
Emacs!
In this case, it's the electronics that becomes a
potential antagonist for sensitive victims. It was
a potential cum reality that prompted a re-packaging
of the LuxDrive power supplies on a filter board
as shown above.
>Does using a couple of LED's with the appropriate resistor create
>noise antagonists?
The LED is probably 10x noisier than other diodes . . .
but take that with a grain of salt. Virtually ALL electronic
devices passing current generate some noise. But
in the case of diodes, resistors and such, the amount
of is so tiny as to require special receivers
just to go find it . . . the garden variety
instrumentation system wont know it's there.
So install as many LEDs and companion resistors
as needed to meet your design goals. Noise potential
has no practical significance.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | IFR in with a JAB3300 + SD8 |
At 01:38 AM 9/5/2010, you wrote:
Thanks Bob
It would only be occasional penetration of cloud for getting in or
out not planning to cruise in IMC. My load analysis is cruise about
15 amps but on approach in Imc with lights off (all leds) and pitot
on load is about 17 so not much margin with the J3300 alternator (I'm
estimating about 6 amps for a dual screen Dynon skyview system ) Just
don't want a discharge light on half way through an approach !
Maybe its overkill to go dual Alternators ?
Not 'overkill' assuming that the alternators are
evaluated for performance while paralleled with
each other. What we're discussing is risk reduction.
If you're crafting a system where intended use
demands high order of reliability for BOTH alternators,
it's not clear to me that the Jab 3300 paralleled
with an SD8 is a good choice.
Pitot heat is not a particularly useful feature
on a small airplane. If it's your intent to spend
some time in the clouds at temperatures conductive
to ice accumulation, then having a pitot heater
is "whistling in the dark".
Forgive me an anecdotal example: Late in my career
as a student, I was wanting to go do some
'real' IFR. One weekend found me at ICT unable
to go flying by myself . . . but there was a real
cool, 2000 foot layer that looked like a good
practice opportunity.
After some badgering, my instructor relented.
I planed and filed an IFR to Hutchinson some 40
miles N.E. of Wichita. We punched through out
of Wichita but the Hutch controller put me down into
the clouds for crossing the VOR fix several miles
S.W. of Hutch. I eagerly dived in, kept all the
needles mostly centered to the VOR, turned out
to the marker, crossed the marker, captured the
LOC outbound and did the procedure turn. Was really
proud of myself for keeping all the needles centered
until I broke out.
Grinning ear to ear I finished the approach
and just as I started the flare to put wheels
on the ground, the airplane fell out of sky and
plopped down pretty hard.
I looked over at the instructor who was smiling.
"Taxi in he says, and let's talk".
When we got parked, we pile out of the airplane
and he showed me what he had been observing while
I was busy grinning at the gages. During our 12
or so minutes in the clouds, a thin strip of
VERY hard ice was building on the stagnation
point of the wing's leading edge. Nothing
serious from the standpoint of weight or
drag but significant in terms of flying qualities.
The airplane didn't have pitot heat so he
had been watching for signs of IAS indication
to degrade. He was of the opinion that it
would also have offered a good teaching moment.
He admonished me that I COULD have requested
and would have been granted permission to do
all the maneuvers to final above the clouds.
All that preliminary stuff is just to get you
on the beams at ANY appropriate altitude. He
also made a good point that just because
you don't see stuff on the windshield doesn't
mean it isn't on the prop and leading edges.
The ice was so hard that I had to put the airplane
into a hangar and warm it up. Further, since
I reported ice to ground control, I had
essentially closed the airport for my departure
until at least several more flights arrived behind
me without reporting ice.
That's ONE way to turn a 2 hour adventure into
a 4 hour study in aviation realities.
I'm thinking that your dual alternator installation
is just fine where the SD-8 is the occasional
backup for the main alternator. Your main
alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which
you could probably boost to continuous duty
with some well considered cooling). If you can
give up the pitot heater, then you MAY be
home free.
Also, go find out how much the the built in alternator
and the SD-8 will do for output at RPMs appropriate to
approach configurations. Don't guess, go get the numbers.
Then modify plan-A, plan-B contingencies to match.
Having said all that, it's a really good idea
to go do practice approaches in the same configuration
you plan to use for real approaches.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
We realise you have a problem on your hands and hasten to attempt
some sort of solution BUT your 16 line message took a total of 240 lines of
cyber space and display manoeuvring to accomplish it.
If four of us answered with ten lines each, using your transcript
routine, it would take 1500 lines to scroll through to acquire them. Don't
make me come out there!
I know.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED as LV Annunciator |
At 03:16 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Thank you for that illumination. (I couldn't resist;-) Ohmy God!
>This is getting revolting! I seem stuck here no matter watt I do.
Better to be "stuck" in the light as opposed to
wandering in the dark. We all started from right
where you are now.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | darnpilot(at)aol.com |
> I'll try to apply the protocol of the day. I'm still learning this
list and how it automatically
configures replies.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | "chris Sinfield" <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi all
I was going to use the new Dim-able LED strip lighting for under the Inst combing
for my NVFR aircraft
they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
Anyone used these yet?? do the dimmers come with the strip LED's or do you have
to buy them separately.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311516#311516
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Smith" <gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
'lectric Bob wrote:
"Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
Gordon Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris=2C
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs=2C you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red=2C and th
is
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue=2C and this phenomenon allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look outsi
de at
night while flying=2C and then look back inside at the instruments=2C the r
ed lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any othe
r
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Here's an interesting article
http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/.
In my cockpit, I only use low-level white dimmable lighting for the
express purpose of reading charts at night. Charts require white light
in order to see all of the colors. When not reading charts, all of the
modern instruments have their own back-lights, which are kept dim.
Looks like red flood lighting is useful for general night lighting.
Vern
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: dim able strip LED lighting
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris,
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs, you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red, and
this
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue, and this phenomenon
allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look
outside at
night while flying, and then look back inside at the instruments, the
red lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any
other
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net> |
I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work great!
The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an aluminum channel
integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with Vern. Stick with
white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Andres" <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | dim able strip LED lighting |
According Stein-air's web site Blue is now the standard color on commercial
and military aircraft..FWIW
Tim Andres
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: dim able strip LED lighting
> they come in red or blue. never really used blue before ??
> Chris
Chris,
Irrespective of the different colors of LEDs, you have to keep in mind
specifically what you are using the LED for.
Blue panel LEDs may look "cool" but they are NOT appropriate for use
as a night lighting. Blue light is a shorter wavelength than red, and this
aspect does not work as well for rapidly adjusting light/dark conditions
as red.
Red light has a longer wavelength than blue, and this phenomenon allows
the human eye to adjust quicker from a dark environment to a red lit
environment than blue lighting.
This is the reason aircraft cockpit lighting is red. When you look
outside at
night while flying, and then look back inside at the instruments, the red
lit
instruments don't mess up your vision (light receptors) as much as any other
color wavelength will.
Mike Welch
23:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
At 07:57 AM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>'lectric Bob wrote:
>
>"Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
>probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
>
>How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
>coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
Perhaps both. But the primary concern is for
alternator windings. You can always go to a more
robust rectifier/regulator (John Deere?).
It would be a very interesting and useful experiment
to do some flight testing on temperature rise for
this alternator on the as-installed engine. We don't
know what limits the ratings given by Jab. Wire
temp limits? Semiconductors in R/R?
If the windings are similarly disposed about a
magnet bearing flywheel like the Rotax 912, then
cooling the coils would not be easy.
You could thermocouple the windings and do some
full load testing. I can't imagine anyone winding
the aircraft alternator with wire insulated at
less than Class H temperatures (180C max hot spot).
If we were sure that the wires were not being
abused, the beefing up the R/R might produce a
much more robust system. It's doubtful that
Jab will share the information even if they
know it.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Riggs" <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV7ASask
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:06 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work
great! The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an
aluminum channel integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with
Vern. Stick with white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry van Dyk" <gerry.vandyk(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
different than the best color for preserving night vision.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
to re-adapt to the darkness.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Riggs
Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
> That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
> when looking at their charts=2C the reason being red light doesn't cause
the
> eye's iris to close=2C which kills dark adapted vision.
> Red allows you to look at the
> instruments=2C then look out the window without having to wait for your e
yes
> to re-adapt to the darkness.
>
> Gerry
Gerry=2C
This tendency of the red light not affecting the iris' closing=2C was wha
t I getting at.
You offered more detail than me=2C and you're correct. I think that this i
s also why darkrooms
for developing film are lit with red lights.
My Cessna(s) had red cockpit lighting. Like I said initially=2C you have
to determine the
primary purpose of the LED lighting. If you want to see things inside the
cockpit=2C and
not screw up your night vision=2C use red. If you want to be able to see s
omething very
well in the dark=2C like an instrument=2C use blue/green lighting (and you
can turn down the
brightness a lot).
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neal George" <n8zg(at)ATT.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Ummm. No.
Darkroom lamps are red because black & white photo paper will tolerate low
levels of red light - film will not tolerate ANY light. I'll suggest that
red light in the cockpit descended from the photo world, where folks had
been working in very low light levels for many decades before there were
lights in airplanes.
Working in a darkroom will give you a completely different perspective on
the red-light/night-blind transition. We go from low-intensity red ambient
to low intensity white (enlarger lamp on to set-up, crop the print, then
starring into the lamp with a mirror to focus the lens) to room light and
back to low-intensity red in a matter of seconds. Given that experience,
I've never given much credence to the night-vision and red-light argument.
Unless I'm slapped right in the face with a LOT of light that dazzles the
retinas (close, exceptionally bright landing lights?), I find I'm very
tolerant of cockpit light levels, and the transition from inside reading
charts and gauges to outside looking at stars and horizons is uneventful.
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG (all the loose ends)
CherokeeJet N9586J
===============
I think that this is also why darkrooms for developing film are lit with red
lights.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
This is an interesting dimmer. Does it have the noise problems that Bob was
writing about?
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:06 PM, RV7ASask wrote:
>
> I have installed a strip of white dimable LEDs above my switches. They work
> great! The strip happens to be 3/8 in wide and fit perfectly into an
> aluminum channel integrated at the bottom of the panel. I would agree with
> Vern. Stick with white. The dimmer is available from Spruce.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/pwmDimmer.php
>
> David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311539#311539
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Riggs" <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
I have flown with both, I am a retired Army pilot, and can tell you that the
blue-green lighting has less of an impact on night vision than red and is
easier to read charts with. At lease the blue-green the Army used.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry van
Dyk
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
different than the best color for preserving night vision.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
to re-adapt to the darkness.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Riggs
Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cooling Jab 3300 PM Alternator |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, all, mention is made of the John Deere rectifier/regulator as a
substitute for the Jabiru unit, however, as I recall, the JD unit is rather
pricey, too. Has anyone investigated the Harley Davidson rec/reg? Can be had
for at least two output levels and they're relatively inexpensive at $35 to
$50. Just a thought.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 07:57 AM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>> gordonrsmith921(at)yahoo.com>
>>
>> 'lectric Bob wrote:
>>
>> "Your main alternator is rated for 22A intermittent (which you could
>> probably boost to continuous duty with some well considered cooling)."
>>
>> How is this to be accomplished? Cooling air to the Rec/Reg or to the Alt
>> coils mounted to the back of the engine or both?
>>
>
> Perhaps both. But the primary concern is for
> alternator windings. You can always go to a more
> robust rectifier/regulator (John Deere?).
>
> It would be a very interesting and useful experiment
> to do some flight testing on temperature rise for
> this alternator on the as-installed engine. We don't
> know what limits the ratings given by Jab. Wire
> temp limits? Semiconductors in R/R?
>
> If the windings are similarly disposed about a
> magnet bearing flywheel like the Rotax 912, then
> cooling the coils would not be easy.
>
> You could thermocouple the windings and do some
> full load testing. I can't imagine anyone winding
> the aircraft alternator with wire insulated at
> less than Class H temperatures (180C max hot spot).
>
> If we were sure that the wires were not being
> abused, the beefing up the R/R might produce a
> much more robust system. It's doubtful that
> Jab will share the information even if they
> know it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net> |
>>This is an interesting dimmer. Does it have the noise problems that Bob was writing
about?
I am just finishing installing the radios so I can't tell you about noise problems
at this time. More to follow.
Weighing in on the color of the light. I said earlier 'Stick with White.' I think
both Mr Boeing and Mr Airbus have opted for white in the cockpit and I think
they got it right.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311626#311626
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Using the example of Boeing and Airbus for cockpit lighting in a good
example of not examining the application before making a decision, IMHO.
When was the last time an airline crew really needed to have good night
vision for looking outside the cockpit? Unless you plan on flying on
instruments from takeoff to touchdown, or very nearly, is this the wise
choice?
Even using the military, particularly what the helicopter cockpits use, is
questionable since their decision may have been driven as much by
compatibility with night vision equipment as the human eye.
Just exactly how much improvement is blue/green over red? Does the
difference amount to anything more that picking the fly poop from the
pepper, or are we dealing with an unquantifiable "coolness factor"?
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:04 PM, RV7ASask wrote:
>
>
> >>This is an interesting dimmer. =EF=BDDoes it have the noise problems
that Bob
> was writing about?
>
> I am just finishing installing the radios so I can't tell you about noise
> problems at this time. More to follow.
>
> Weighing in on the color of the light. I said earlier 'Stick with White.'
I
> think both Mr Boeing and Mr Airbus have opted for white in the cockpit an
d I
> think they got it right.
>
> David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311626#311626
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unabl
e
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | John McMahon <blackoaks(at)gmail.com> |
And remember when the red cockpit lighting made all of the fan markers and
LF ranges mysteriously disappear from our charts on night flights!
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Lynn Riggs wrote:
>
> I have flown with both, I am a retired Army pilot, and can tell you that
> the
> blue-green lighting has less of an impact on night vision than red and is
> easier to read charts with. At lease the blue-green the Army used.
>
> Lynn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> van
> Dyk
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:43 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
>
>
>
> That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
> when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
> eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
> objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
> color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
> receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
> nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
> this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
> different than the best color for preserving night vision.
>
> http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
>
> I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
> P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
> instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
> to re-adapt to the darkness.
>
> Gerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Riggs
> Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
>
>
> White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
> blue-green light is the best in night operations.
>
> Lynn
>
>
--
John McMahon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: dim able strip LED lighting / off topic |
Just a data point on lighting and combat- I've been told that the biggest
advantage of red lighting in at least one application is that a useable
level of red light can't be seen from nearly as far away as white light
can, thereby making it harder for the other guy to see you. I have no
personal knowledge to back that up, however.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Wickert" <jimw_btg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Jim Wickert here, I have been following this thread and have the
following to put up for added fodder. We have a Government Marine
contract which we are working on that has a section for Night
Illumination of Instrumentation and we are doing the scope research now.
Below is some interesting information and food for thought. At this
time our general consensus is Soft White Flood of panels? We have not
released our findings to our customer however. Take care sorry for the
amount of text but this is only a snip of the 13 page findings.
FLITELite Light Color, Intensity & Night Vision:
Pilots have a choice of FLITELite colors - NVIS White (more information
on NVIS White <http://www.flitelite.com/isite/nvis.htm> ), Soft White
that is NVIS friendly, Green, Red and Blue. The best light choice is
NVIS White, followed by soft white, for a light that will protect your
central night vision and provide full spectrum light. Green and Blue
will protect central night vision as well, but blues and greens will
disappear with this color of light - something for a pilot to consider
prior to use. Red is also available, which will protect peripheral night
vision, but not central vision as well as the soft white, blue and
green. Red's on charts will also not be visible with red light, another
consideration for the pilot to consider when making a color choice.
The eyes are comprised of Rods and Cones. We hear people talk about Rods
being for night vision, and Cones for day vision, and while they both
have their special attributes, it would be better to classify them in
the aviation environment at Peripheral (Rods) and Central (Cones)
vision. Both rods and cones have a day and night mode, and they both
react to light at different rates, and to have sensitivity to different
light frequencies.
Rods surround the periphery of the eye and are used for peripheral
vision, and night vision. They do not see color, and do not detect
motion. Rods only provide non-color vision at an acuity of 20/200. Rods
are most susceptible to blue light. You never read, or scan your
instruments with your Rods - or your peripheral vision - think about it.
You are reading this article with your central vision - your cones.
Cones are used for color, central vision, with visual acuity of 20/20.
The cones have a focal width of approximately 20 to 30 degrees. Cones
are most susceptible to red light.
Cones are used when you read, day or night. During the day we read with
our cones - during the night we need a light to read - obvious, but it
shatters the red light myth in the aviation cockpit.
http://www.flitelite.com/isite/images/rcdist.gif
So the question is what is the best light that will provide your eyes,
and brain with the best light for reading? The answer is a dim white
light. Look inside any of the new jets, and you will find that the
lighting is white. Military cockpits specify NVIS White
<http://www.flitelite.com/isite/nvis.htm> . NVIS White appears to have a
green tint, but it is a full spectrum light. More on NVIS Compatibility
<http://www.flitelite.com/isite/nvis.htm>
FLITELite is set to a 25 degree field of view to maximize the physiology
of the pilot=99s eye. But to preserve night vision the intensity
of the light is what matters. By using a full spectrum white light, the
full spectrum light and low reflection reduces the amount of light
needed. The 25 degree field is critical to keep the light out of our
peripheral vision so we can look for traffic, and gauge height when we
are making that perfect night landing.
Under red light, magenta symbols disappear on charts, and during
electrical failures, red markings on instruments and gauges are
unreadable. Blue light will make Blue 100LL fuel disappear.
Unaided night vision even now in the 21st century is still the subject
of some controversy.
For those just looking for an executive answer as to what supplemental
lighting should be used to reduced the recovery time back to night
vision (dark adapted or scotopic) here it is: a fully dimmable white
light! This of course is a very incomplete answer but so are the answers
red or blue-green and you should know why.
Let=99s start with red, specifically what I will call the red
light myth.
I believe the myth started in the photographic darkroom.
Until about 1906 most photosensitive material (plate, film, and paper)
was not very sensitive to red. Some of these orthochromatic materials
are still used. This allowed these materials to be dealt with for a
short time under a relative bright red light because the human eye can
see red if the level is bright enough. The fact that L.E.D.s (having a
number of advantages over other light sources) were economically only
available in red for some time has also help to perpetuate this myth.
As more research about the eye was done it was found that the structure
responsible for very low light vision, the rods, were also not very
sensitive to red.
It was assumed then that like film you could use red light, which is
seen by the red sensitive cones (there are also blue and green sensitive
cones to give color vision), without affecting the rods.
It takes a while for true night vision to be recovered. About 10
minutes for 10%, 30-45 minutes for 80%, the rest may take hours, days,
or a week. The issue is the chemical in the eye, rhodopsin - commonly
called visual purple, is broken down quickly by light. The main issue
then is intensity; color is only an issue because the rods (responsible
for night vision) are most sensitive at a particular color. That color
is a blue-green (507nm) similar to traffic light green (which is this
color for a entirely different reason). It would seem that using the
lowest brightness (using this color) additional light needed for a task
is the best bet to retain this dark adaptation because it allows rods to
function at their best.
Unfortunately there are a number of drawbacks using only night vision.
Among these are:
* The inability to distinguish colors.
* No detail can be seen (about the same as 20/200 vision in daylight).
* That nothing can be seen directly in front of the eyes (no rods in the
center of the retina), you must learn to look about 15-20=C2=B0 off
center.
* Only motion can be detected well, therefore you may have to learn to
move your eyes to detect something that doesn't move.
* Objects that aren't moving appear to move (autokinesis). This has
probably led to a number of plane crashes.
If you need to see directly in front of you or see detail you need red.
Like many myths the red light myth has some basis in fact. The red
truth?
Why red? The center 1.5% of your retina (the fovea) which provides you
with most detailed vision is packed almost exclusively with red
sensitive cones.
This is the same area that has no rods and is responsible for the night
blind spot. There are fewer total green sensitive cones than red. The
number of blue sensitive cones is very small compared to green and red.
Which is just as well since the lens in the human eye cannot focus red
and blue at the same time. And using green really only changes
perceived brightness because of the way the signals are processed in our
neural pathways. Unlike a digital camera, more pixels, in this case,
doesn't give us more detail.
rod density vs. conesChart showing the distribution of rods vs cones.
Note the absence of rods in the center and the absence of both about
15=C2=B0 away from the the center toward the nose where the optic nerve
passes.
At first glance the tendency would be to pick the hue of red at which we
are most sensitive (566nm) which would make sense except for the real
reason: we don't want to involve the rods. The reason is the rods share
the neural pathways with the cones so that you have this fuzzy image
overriding the detailed one. This effect disappears at slightly higher
mesopic levels which is why white is a good choice for most tasks. Many
people look at the numbers for sensitivity for rods and cones and forget
that in most cases the numbers have been adjusted so that rod peek
sensitive matches cone peak. Rods are in fact sensitive well into the
infrared (not too useful except to know that light you can barely sense
can adversely impact your night vision). The key then is finding a hue
that we can have at a high enough intensity that we can see the detail
we need without activating our rods to the point where they obscure that
detail. Most source say this should be nothing shorter than 650nm.
Experimentation shows a L.E.D. with a peek around 700nm seems to work
best (perceived as a deep red). Note that red may be fatiguing to the
eyes.
Conclusions:
* No matter what your color choice it must be fully adjustable for
intensity.
* If you need the fastest dark adaptation recovery and can adjust to the
limitations, or everyone in your group is using night vision equipment
then blue-green.
* If you must see detail (reading a star chart, or instrument settings)
and can lose peripheral vision (see note 1)
<http://stlplaces.com/night_vision_red_myth/#note1> , then a very long
wavelength red at a very low level. Red really only has an advantage at
very low levels (were the night blind spot is very obvious).
* A general walking around light so that you don't trip over the tripod,
knock over equipment or bump into people, then blue-green with enough
red added to get rid of the night blind spot, or maybe just use white.
Blue-green at higher brightness also works very well and at a lower
intensity than white.
* If you need to see color and detail then likely the best choice is the
dimmest white light for the shortest amount of time.
* If you are in the military you must follow their rules; hopefully they
will have a good course in unassisted night vision.
* If you are a pilot and say you only fly in the day, you should be
aware of the problems of night vision and should consider a basic
(ground) course in night flying.
* If you wonder why no one else has drawn these conclusions look at the
dashboard of most cars. The markings are large, the pointers are large
and an orange-red (a compromise, for certain "color blind" persons) and
at night it is edge lit with blue-green filtered fully intensity
adjustable light.
For Best night vision:
* Be sure you are getting enough vitamin A or its precursor
beta-carotene in your diet (needed for the visual purple).
* Green leafy stuff is best followed by vegetables that have an orange
color. Yes that includes carrots but spinach or dark leaf lettuce are
better. It is possible to get too much vitamin A especially as a
supplement.
* Keep up your general health. Smoking is also very bad for night
vision, as are most illegal drugs and some prescription drugs.
* Keep you blood sugar level as even as possible. No meal skipping.
Six small meals are better than three large meals. For carbohydrates
favor starches (potatoes, rice, and bread) over simple sugars (sweets,
alcohol).
* Use dark neutral gray sunglasses, that pass no more that 15% in full
sun, when outside during the day.
True night blindness is rare. Most of what people call night blindness
is either a lack of vitamin A in the diet or a failure to understand the
night blind spot.
Cataracts, even minor ones, increase the effects of glare at night and
the eye's lens does yellow and passes less light as we age which may
contribute to what some call night blindness.
Note: The red filtered light at the intensity most people use is likely
decreasing night vision much more than a properly dimmed white or
blue-green light would!
Note: There are day blind spots also but are in a different position in
each eye so are less of a problem.
Note: Blue-green (also called cyan, turquoise, teal and other names) as
used here is NOT the combination of two colors but is a single
particular hue. I use the most common name for that hue.
Mil-STD 1472F 5.8.2.2 (table XVI) display lighting
Brightness of markings
Condition of use
Lighting Technique *
cd/m2
foot-lamberts
Brightness Adjustment
Indicator reading, dark adaptation necessary
Red flood, indirect, or both, with operator choice
0.07-0.35
(0.02-0.1)
Continuous throughout range
Indicator reading, dark adaptation not necessary but desirable
Red or low-color-temperature white flood, indirect, or both, with
operator choice
0.07-3.5-
(0.02-1.0)
Continuous throughout range
Indicator reading, dark adaptation not necessary
White flood
3.5-70
(1-20)
Fixed or continuous
Panel monitoring, dark adaptation necessary
Red edge lighting, red or white flood, or both, with operator choice
0.07-3.5
(0.02-1.0)
Continuous throughout range
Panel monitoring, dark adaptation not necessary
White flood
35-70
(10-20)
Fixed or continuous
Possible exposure to bright flashes, restricted daylight
White flood
35-70
(10-20)
Fixed
Chart reading, dark adaptation necessary
Red or white flood with operator choice
0.35-3.50
(0.1-1.0)
Continuous throughout range
Chart reading, dark adaptation not necessary
White flood
17-70
(5-20)
Fixed or continuous
* Where detection of ground vehicles or other protected assets by image
intensifier night vision devices must be minimized, blue-green light
(incandescent filament through a filter which passes only wave lengths
shorter than 600 nm) should be used in lieu of red light.
- Possible error in original, read as: 0.07-0.35, likely
occurred when converted to metric.
_____
This is intended only as an overview; no warranty of this information is
expressed or implied
_____
[Update 17 Nov 2003] I find new myths are springing up. Such as
blue-green L.E.D.s are emitting two colors of light. This is a
mis-understanding of the color name and that this is the most accepted
name for this one color. Another is that blue improves night vision.
While at somewhat higher levels it, of course, is stimulating the rods.
It is not an optimum color. Another long standing myth is that human
visual perception is based on three colors when it is really based on
four. The rods are usually ignored because many people believe,
wrongly, that at the brightness at which we perceive color the rods are
no longer providing our brains with any information. In fact the
perception of brightness is highly influenced by the rods well into the
photopic (bright light) range of vision. Fluorescent lamp manufacturers
have used this knowledge for a long time. "Cool White" lamps have an
additional amount of green phosphor added to make us "see" them as being
brighter! Of course the whole subject of color vision and the variances
thereof (wrongly called "color blindness") will require a number of new
pages even in synopsis form.
A point I forgot to cover is that to help preserve night vision in one
eye the other may be closed or covered if you know you are about to be
exposed to a brighter light, such as from a oncoming vehicle. For
normal observation both eyes should be kept open. If it is difficult to
concentrate on the desired image the eye not being used may be covered
but not closed. Closing affects focus and possibly acuity.
[Update 14 Dec 2003] A very important point barely mentioned in the
original is that human peripheral vision is almost completely rod based!
The implication then is that we cannot see color at the edges of our
vision. If you think we can, try this simple experiment. You will need
a small assortment of color cards (try sheets of construction paper) and
someone to assist you. Sit looking straight ahead while you=99re
assistant, about 6 to 10 feet away, slowly moves a random color card
into the margin of your vision. Now, while still looking straight
ahead, what color is the card?
This is the second most important factor that has been ignored in the
design of outdoor lighting, the first being glare! However this study
<http://stlplaces.com/cgi/redirect.cgi?http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf
66/133155_web.pdf> (in pdf), at the U. S. Dept. of Transportation, is a
subjective study of blue tinted headlamps.
[Update 23 Jan 2004] A few random notes to be better integrated into
this document later.
Luminances are approximate and will vary with the individual and
conditions.
Vision luminance rage 1 * 10-6 to 1 * 106 cd/M2
Rods luminance rage 1 * 10-6 to 1 * 103 cd/M2 (may still play a roll
above this range)
Cones luminance rage 1 * 10-3 to 1 * 106 cd/M2
Explain "Purinke shift"
20/20 vision is the ability to resolve 1 minute of arc at 20 feet.
Discuss Ricco's Law.
Discuss afterimages.
LITELite NVIS Compatibility
MIL-STD-3009 was developed by the Department of Defense in February 2001
and superceded MIL-L-85762A. It specifies that NVIS White for crew
cockpit and utility lighting. NVIS Green A is grand fathered into the
cockpit for certain applications, but not for new applications.
The chromacity of NVIS White makes it a full spectrum light even though
is appears to have a green tint. Visible light can be split into the
three primary colors, red, green and blue. The eye needs two primary
colors to see 'white'. NVIS White, in simple terms is blue range through
the green range. NVIS goggles filters allow a thin band of green light
though the lens - so that users can see heads up displays and other
required applications through the goggles.
The level of light with respect to the chromacity is important due to
this leak (filter) in the goggles. Other manufacturers claim to be the
'only authorized' lights produced since they meet a request for proposal
standard. These claims are false - they have never tested FLITELite
products how could they know? FLITELite meets and exceeds non-binding
RFP standards, AND meets the modern, more stringent MIL-STD-3009, which
is a binding requirement specified by the military.
General Aviation pilots can benefit from this technology. This light
spectrum and intensity is perfect for general night vision use as well.
Read MIL-STD-3009
<http://www.flitelite.com/isite/support/MIL_STD_3009.pdf> here.
http://www.flitelite.com/isite/images/nvischart.jpg
http://www.flitelite.com/isite/images/range.jpg
FLITELite minimizes the crossover zone by using a special combination of
LED's and Filter material. The filter material ensures that the light
greater than 600 nm is not transmitted.
http://www.flitelite.com/isite/images/nvissys.jpg
Jim Wickert
Vision #159 =9CVision some will have some will not=9D
Tel 920-467-0219
Cell 920-912-1014
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Girard
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
Using the example of Boeing and Airbus for cockpit lighting in a good
example of not examining the application before making a decision, IMHO.
When was the last time an airline crew really needed to have good night
vision for looking outside the cockpit? Unless you plan on flying on
instruments from takeoff to touchdown, or very nearly, is this the wise
choice?
Even using the military, particularly what the helicopter cockpits use,
is questionable since their decision may have been driven as much by
compatibility with night vision equipment as the human eye.
Just exactly how much improvement is blue/green over red? Does the
difference amount to anything more that picking the fly poop from the
pepper, or are we dealing with an unquantifiable "coolness factor"?
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:04 PM, RV7ASask wrote:
>>This is an interesting dimmer. =EF=BDDoes it have the noise
problems that Bob was writing about?
I am just finishing installing the radios so I can't tell you about
noise problems at this time. More to follow.
Weighing in on the color of the light. I said earlier 'Stick with
White.' I think both Mr Boeing and Mr Airbus have opted for white in the
cockpit and I think they got it right.
David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311626#311626
-
ric-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be
unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Riggs" <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Your point with the white light in the Airbus is quite valid. As to the
NVG compatibility, when flying with NVG=99s the cockpit lighting
is turndown so low you cannot read your instrument without using the
NVG=99s and color does not make much difference. The Army was
looking for a different lighting in the cockpit because the red lighting
gave off an IR signature which is not good. They found that the
blue-green light was preferred buy their pilots, especially the older
pilots, and did not give off an IR signature. I have over 600 hours of
flight time at night and a lot of that flying low level or terrain
flight in VFR conditions with about 60 hours using the blue-green
lighting which I thought to be much better than the red lighting. I
would not use white lighting in the cockpit for night VFR flight. The
problem I have found is the blue-green cockpit lighting is not
available.
Lynn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Girard
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
Using the example of Boeing and Airbus for cockpit lighting in a good
example of not examining the application before making a decision, IMHO.
When was the last time an airline crew really needed to have good night
vision for looking outside the cockpit? Unless you plan on flying on
instruments from takeoff to touchdown, or very nearly, is this the wise
choice?
Even using the military, particularly what the helicopter cockpits use,
is questionable since their decision may have been driven as much by
compatibility with night vision equipment as the human eye.
Just exactly how much improvement is blue/green over red? Does the
difference amount to anything more that picking the fly poop from the
pepper, or are we dealing with an unquantifiable "coolness factor"?
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:04 PM, RV7ASask wrote:
>>This is an interesting dimmer. =EF=BDDoes it have the noise
problems that Bob was writing about?
I am just finishing installing the radios so I can't tell you about
noise problems at this time. More to follow.
Weighing in on the color of the light. I said earlier 'Stick with
White.' I think both Mr Boeing and Mr Airbus have opted for white in the
cockpit and I think they got it right.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Thermally robust PM rectifier/regulators |
At 09:45 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>Bob, all, mention is made of the John Deere rectifier/regulator as a
>substitute for the Jabiru unit, however, as I recall, the JD unit is
>rather pricey, too. Has anyone investigated the Harley Davidson
>rec/reg? Can be had for at least two output levels and they're
>relatively inexpensive at $35 to $50. Just a thought.
Similarly, I have no hard data on the JD regulators.
My references were based on numerous successful applications
of the JD device on the larger PM alternators popular
with the Corvair engine guys. Further, the JD has
the APPEARANCE of thermal robustness . . . larger
enclosure and more fin area.
The REAL comparison of any regulator's performance is to
get temperature data on critical internal parts
under various operating configurations. Unfortunately,
it's very unlikely that we'll get such data. The
next best data is a max operating temperature for
the R/R case as offered here . . .
http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/PMR1C_outline_REV_D.pdf
The alternative is to rely on anecdotal successes
or to start from scratch and design a new R/R
where getting the numbers is part of the development
process.
Are you aware of any installations flying that use
the HD parts?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Riggs" <riggs_la(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
Another good point.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
McMahon
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
And remember when the red cockpit lighting made all of the fan markers and
LF ranges mysteriously disappear from our charts on night flights!
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Lynn Riggs wrote:
I have flown with both, I am a retired Army pilot, and can tell you that the
blue-green lighting has less of an impact on night vision than red and is
easier to read charts with. At lease the blue-green the Army used.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry van
Dyk
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
That is rather curious. Amateur astronomers use red flashlights at night
when looking at their charts, the reason being red light doesn't cause the
eye's iris to close, which kills dark adapted vision. When observing
objects through larger telescopes one can occasionally pick up a blue-green
color in subjects like the Ring Nebula (M57)the reason being the color
receptors in the retina pick up the middle of the visible spectrum (520
nanometer wavelength)at the lowest light levels. I have a suspicion that
this study determined that blue-green is the easiest to see, which is
different than the best color for preserving night vision.
http://www.oneminuteastronomer.com/astro-course-day-5/
I would suggest doing some research into WWII night fighters. For one, the
P-61 Black Widow used red cockpit lighting. Red allows you to look at the
instruments, then look out the window without having to wait for your eyes
to re-adapt to the darkness.
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Riggs
Sent: September 6, 2010 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: dim able strip LED lighting
White is not good for your night vision. The military has found that a
blue-green light is the best in night operations.
Lynn
==========
Electric-List Email Forum -
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==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
John McMahon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thermally robust PM rectifier/regulators |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, Not aware of any flying, unless you count the times I've raced my
Shovelhead over Washington Pass from Darlington to Winthrop. I can give a
data point for their robustness. The one on my Vibraglide is rigidly mounted
and has been there for over 20 years.
Rick
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:45 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, all, mention is made of the John Deere rectifier/regulator as a
>> substitute for the Jabiru unit, however, as I recall, the JD unit is rather
>> pricey, too. Has anyone investigated the Harley Davidson rec/reg? Can be had
>> for at least two output levels and they're relatively inexpensive at $35 to
>> $50. Just a thought.
>>
>
> Similarly, I have no hard data on the JD regulators.
> My references were based on numerous successful applications
> of the JD device on the larger PM alternators popular
> with the Corvair engine guys. Further, the JD has
> the APPEARANCE of thermal robustness . . . larger
> enclosure and more fin area.
>
> The REAL comparison of any regulator's performance is to
> get temperature data on critical internal parts
> under various operating configurations. Unfortunately,
> it's very unlikely that we'll get such data. The
> next best data is a max operating temperature for
> the R/R case as offered here . . .
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/PMR1C_outline_REV_D.pdf
>
> The alternative is to rely on anecdotal successes
> or to start from scratch and design a new R/R
> where getting the numbers is part of the development
> process.
>
> Are you aware of any installations flying that use
> the HD parts?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thermally robust PM rectifier/regulators |
At 12:43 PM 9/7/2010, you wrote:
>Bob, Not aware of any flying, unless you count the times I've raced
>my Shovelhead over Washington Pass from Darlington to Winthrop. I
>can give a data point for their robustness. The one on my Vibraglide
>is rigidly mounted and has been there for over 20 years.
What's the output rating for the alternator . . .
and do you know how heavily you load it?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Thermally robust PM rectifier/regulators |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I put an Ultraglide dynamo in a few years back for 32 amp output. I probably
don't load it up much, just lighting and ignition.
Rick
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 12:43 PM 9/7/2010, you wrote:
>
>> Bob, Not aware of any flying, unless you count the times I've raced my
>> Shovelhead over Washington Pass from Darlington to Winthrop. I can give a
>> data point for their robustness. The one on my Vibraglide is rigidly mounted
>> and has been there for over 20 years.
>>
>
> What's the output rating for the alternator . . .
> and do you know how heavily you load it?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | warning lamp for LR3C regulators |
Hey there Bob and all,
I contacted B&C to ask whether the incandescent warning lamp (on pin 5) for
the LR3C regulator could be replaced by an LED. They responded that it
could be in the 14V version but that I would have to check with Bob about
the 28V version. Is there any polarity that would need to be observed in
the connection?
Thanks
South African Jay
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dim able strip LED lighting |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
Having an official (and permanent) FAA color vision waiver gives me a unique position
to comment on cockpit lighting color...Ahem....
Miscellaneous notes:
When I had bilateral lens replacements last year I got the opportunity to examine
my eyeball lenses in a jar. They were both the color of tea. This change of
color is what happens when you age.
Remember that color vision studies (and their relevance in the cockpit) are all
done on 18-25-year olds. Perhaps they are not so relevant for us geriatric aviators.
Consider throwing in a low-power UV LED to the the ambient light.
My opinion is that blue LEDs have been overused. For years, blue was under-used
because LEDs didn't do it and incandescents had little blue and needed filtering.
Automotive high-beam warning lights were a big driver for their development.
Now our new dishwasher has these Zombie-Blue LEDs. Yuck.
White light is best for reading paper charts. But reading paper maps is declining
in importance with glass cockpits and computers. (You could make a paper chart
that was designed for reading in red light... science project....)
There are LEDs that do weird and wonderful things; they pulsate, gyrate, strobe
and change colors. Now if you wanted a warning light that you absolutely couldn't
ignore!...There ya' go.
So do what you want generally consistent with safety, reasonableness and future
saleability.
Cold hearted orb that rules the night
Removes the colours from our sight
Red is gray and yellow, white
But we decide which is right
And which is an illusion....
(Moody Blues, Days of Future Past)
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311808#311808
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thermally robust PM rectifier/regulators |
At 01:56 PM 9/7/2010, you wrote:
>I put an Ultraglide dynamo in a few years back for 32 amp output. I
>probably don't load it up much, just lighting and ignition.
>
>Rick
Hmmmm . . . here'a an opportunity for a really good science
experiment . . . assuming it can be conducted with utility
and safety on a motorcycle!
A switchable load on the order of 28 amps or so (0.5 ohm,
500 watt resistor), voltmeter, ammeter and a temperature
readout on r/r case and perhaps alternator wires. First see
if the bus voltage really stays above 13.5 volts with the
load on. Then see what the maximum temperatures are after
they stabilize in cruise.
What's the part number of the HD R/R?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: warning lamp for LR3C regulators |
At 06:24 AM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
>Hey there Bob and all,
>
>I contacted B&C to ask whether the incandescent warning lamp (on pin
>5) for the LR3C regulator could be replaced by an LED. They
>responded that it could be in the 14V version but that I would have
>to check with Bob about the 28V version. Is there any polarity that
>would need to be observed in the connection?
Yes, both polarity AND resistors are important. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg
For 28v raise resistors to 470 ohms. If the light is too
bright, increase value of resistor in series with the
lamp until desired brightness is attained. But for a warning
light, you probably want to let it run "flat out".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Recently I ordered some items from Mouser. One of the items was a 4ft long piece
of heat shrink tubing that cost 98 cents. Instead of coiling it up and putting
it in the same package as the other items, Mouser packaged and shipped it
separately in a 4-foot long box. Not only that, but they wrapped it in static
proof plastic wrap! LOL I thought that either there was a new employee in
the the shipping department or else someone was playing a practical joke on me.
I sent an email to Mouser complaining about having to pay for separate shipping
on an oversize box. There was no response to the email. Then I sent a letter
via snail mail to customer service. Still no response. So then I called
customer service and talked with Milly. She explained that they ship heat shrink
in long boxes because customers complain if it is coiled up. I can understand
that if a business orders a large quantity of heat shrink tubing, but not
for one piece. I asked Milly how she would like it if she ordered a garden
hose from Sears and they shipped it on a 50-foot flat bed truck. Milly agreed
to give me a refund on shipping charges. So now I am satisfied and will continue
to do business with Mouser. I am posting this as a warning to others who
order heat shrink tubing to specify that it be coiled up, unless you want it
shipped in a long box.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311822#311822
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | warning lamp for LR3C regulators |
Thanks Bob!
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 08 September 2010 05:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: warning lamp for LR3C regulators
At 06:24 AM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
Hey there Bob and all,
I contacted B&C to ask whether the incandescent warning lamp (on pin 5) for
the LR3C regulator could be replaced by an LED. They responded that it
could be in the 14V version but that I would have to check with Bob about
the 28V version. Is there any polarity that would need to be observed in
the connection?
Yes, both polarity AND resistors are important. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg
For 28v raise resistors to 470 ohms. If the light is too
bright, increase value of resistor in series with the
lamp until desired brightness is attained. But for a warning
light, you probably want to let it run "flat out".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: warning lamp for LR3C regulators (CORRECTION) |
At 06:24 AM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
>Hey there Bob and all,
>
>I contacted B&C to ask whether the incandescent warning lamp (on pin
>5) for the LR3C regulator could be replaced by an LED. They
>responded that it could be in the 14V version but that I would have
>to check with Bob about the 28V version. Is there any polarity that
>would need to be observed in the connection?
Yes, both polarity AND resistors are important. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg
For 14v, 470 ohm resistors suffice. For 28v raise resistors
to 1000 ohms. If the light is too bright, increase value of
resistor in series with the lamp until desired brightness
is attained. But for a warning light, you probably want to
let it run "flat out".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | King KTR76TSO circuit breaker |
Hi guys=2C
Does anyone know the appropriate circuit breaker for the King KT76 transp
onder?
I'm having trouble finding the right Klixon to grab. It's looks like a 2 a
mp will do=2C but
I could use a avionics guy's advice. Oh yeah=2C what about wiring size=2C
too. I was thinking
16 ga. tefzel.
Thanks=2C
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | King KTR76TSO circuit breaker |
That "R" in the subject line was a free-loader. Disregard the typo. Mike
From: mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KTR76TSO circuit breaker
Date: Wed=2C 8 Sep 2010 10:35:13 -0700
Hi guys=2C
Does anyone know the appropriate circuit breaker for the King KT76 transp
onder?
I'm having trouble finding the right Klixon to grab. It's looks like a 2 a
mp will do=2C but
I could use a avionics guy's advice. Oh yeah=2C what about wiring size=2C
too. I was thinking
16 ga. tefzel.
Thanks=2C
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Are these a noise source?
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fhobby.htm%23Dimmer
In archives there seems to be a preference for mechanical dimmers.
I have a string of 4 LED's for which I could probably find an acceptable range
of light by using a rotary switch and 4 different resistors.
But it's another project I don't need if a 15 buck dimmer will not cause problems.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311870#311870
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don" <dsvs(at)ca.rr.com> |
| Subject: | warning lamp for LR3C regulators (CORRECTION) |
Bob,
I asked the same question at the end of July and the diagram you put out at
that time said two 230 ohm resistors for 14 volt. I built the system that
way and it works fine. I have not run the engine so I have not seen full
voltage yet. Is the righer resistance needed for the higher voltage ? Just
wondering and wanting to better understand my electrical system. Thanks.
Don
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: warning lamp for LR3C regulators
(CORRECTION)
At 06:24 AM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
Hey there Bob and all,
I contacted B&C to ask whether the incandescent warning lamp (on pin 5) for
the LR3C regulator could be replaced by an LED. They responded that it
could be in the 14V version but that I would have to check with Bob about
the 28V version. Is there any polarity that would need to be observed in
the connection?
Yes, both polarity AND resistors are important. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LR3_LV_Led_1.jpg
For 14v, 470 ohm resistors suffice. For 28v raise resistors
to 1000 ohms. If the light is too bright, increase value of
resistor in series with the lamp until desired brightness
is attained. But for a warning light, you probably want to
let it run "flat out".
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | warning lamp for LR3C regulators (CORRECTION) |
At 10:00 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
Bob,
I asked the same question at the end of July and the diagram you put
out at that time said two 230 ohm resistors for 14 volt. I built the
system that way and it works fine. I have not run the engine so I
have not seen full voltage yet. Is the righer resistance needed for
the higher voltage ? Just wondering and wanting to better understand
my electrical system. Thanks. Don
I picked the 220 ohm resistors a number of years ago
with some notion of "over driving" red leds to get
sunlight viewability flashes. Nowadays, there are high-
intensity leds that perform better at the rated 30 mA
than the older leds peformed at 2x rated current. Hence
and adjustment of the resistor values.
But if what you have in place is working for you, don't
change it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED PWM dimmer |
At 05:24 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote:
Are these a noise source?
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fhobby.htm%23Dimmer
In archives there seems to be a preference for mechanical dimmers.
"Mechanical"?????? We used to offer a range of
linear electronic dimmers. I think Eric's dimmer at:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr.htm
is a compact, linear device that is sure to be
noise free.
I have a string of 4 LED's for which I could probably find an
acceptable range of light by using a rotary switch and 4 different resistors.
But it's another project I don't need if a 15 buck dimmer will not
cause problems.
Give it a try. The risk is low. Then you can report
back to us whether or not the dimmer is suited for
the purpose you used it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | King KTR76TSO circuit breaker |
Does anyone know the appropriate circuit breaker for the King KT76 transponder?
I'm having trouble finding the right Klixon to grab. It's looks like
a 2 amp will do, but
I could use a avionics guy's advice. Oh yeah, what about wiring
size, too. I was thinking
16 ga. tefzel.
20AWG is plenty big wire and consistent with the
largest wire accepted by most avionics tray connectors.
5A breaker is less expensive than a 2A breaker and
is also fine.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | King KT76TSO circuit breaker |
> 20AWG is plenty big wire and consistent with the
> largest wire accepted by most avionics tray connectors.
> 5A breaker is less expensive than a 2A breaker and
> is also fine.
>
>
> Bob . . .
Thanks Bob!!
Since I had a little time before your reply=2C I checked with the Honeyw
ell site
regarding the transponder. What I found was what I needed=2C in a back-doo
r sort of way.
They said (Honeywell) the made a direct slide-in replacement=2C using the o
ld tray and wiring=2C
of the KT 76 with the new digital KT 73. A quick check of the specs on the
KT 73 says
it has a max current draw of 2.5 amps.
My thinking is since the 73 is a direct replacement of the 76=2C and the
73 uses a 2.5 amp
draw.
Regarding the best size=2C I've got (7) each 2A Klixons and a (4) each 5A
Klixons. None of
the Klixon breakers have a home yet....that's what I'm doing=2C assigning b
reakers to their various
tasks. I actually have (3) each 3A breakers (plus other amp sizes).
If you think a 5 amp would be okay=2C then's just I'll go with that!
Plus=2C regarding wiring size=2C I've got a 600' foot roll of 18 ga. twis
ted pair tefzel. I don't have
any 20 ga AWG on hand.
Thanks again=2C Bob
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hand" <chris_hand(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | strobe power supply wiring issues |
I've had some problems with my strobe power supply and/or wiring that I
haven't quite been able to figure out. Looking to see if any of you have
seen something similar or have any advice on next steps. Whelen tech
support has been very helpful and is telling me the power supply checks out
fine at the factory (ran it on their tester for 2 hrs with no problems) so I
believe the issue has to be in the connectors or wiring.
Here's the history:
Whelen A413A power supply firing strobes in wingtip A600 fixtures.
Installed, tested, and worked fine until strobes quit firing at about 50 hrs
total flight time (I run the strobes whenever the engine is running, except
for on ground at night and I don't fly at night much). I used 18AWG wire
for the main power and ground runs, per installation instructions. Power
supply is installed on floor just behind baggage compartment of my RV-6A.
Wiring length and guage meets requirements for expected current draw.
On initial failure at approx 50 hrs, I found the ground return wire for main
power plug to power supply to have overheated, melting the wire and
connector where my aircraft wiring met the factory harness pigtail (see
attached photos with "50hrs" in file name).
>From the looks of the overheated connector for ground return wire, I assumed
I had inadvertently cut wire strands when stripping insulation for connector
installation, leaving not enough wire guage to carry the expected 7A
current, thus overheated the connector. So I removed the damaged wire,
replaced connector with same style (being very careful not to damage wire
strands and to get a good crimp), and tested strobes with no issues.
Everything worked fine until strobes quit firing again at about 150 hrs
total time (approx 100 hrs since first issue).
On inspection after the second failure, I found the same connector/crimp to
have visible heat damage but not to the extent of melting to an open like I
had the first time. The resistance across this heat damaged connector was
about 0.8 ohms, but not open (measured after cutting wires on either side
of the connector without disconnecting the spade terminals). See attached
pictures with "150hrs" in file name for what it looked like this second time
around.
I installed a pin/socket style AMP connector for the power and ground vice
the PIDG style connector, verified I had 12V power at the pin going into the
power supply, and verified the ground wire pin had continuity to airframe
ground (the ground return wire is connected to firewall common ground point
and appears good). But when plugged into the strobe power supply, the power
supply wouldn't fire the strobes - no charge/discharge noise and no strobe
lights.
Based on the above, I assumed the power supply must be bad and sent it to
Whelen factory repair after calling them. They said the power supply checks
out good and the connectors on the power supply look good. They are sending
it back to me with a new main power connector harness.
So, I'll reinstall when I get it back and see if I can get it to work, but
I'm still at a loss as to what went wrong with the two failures and why it
wouldn't work when I tried the AMP style connector.
I thought about trying to just ground the power supply locally, but the
installation instructions state not to do this and I don't want to make a
change that may result in strobe noise in my avionics systems. My current
installation (when strobes are working) doesn't have any strobe noise in any
of my audio/avionics systems. Grounding locally also wouldn't resolve root
cause on this since the ground return and connector should have been able to
handle the expected current load.
Some other pictures of power supply wiring runs and installation are at:
http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg6.htm and 3rd picture down on this page: http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg8.htm#photo3 Any ideas, or something I might be missing? Thanks, ChrisRV-6A, N731CK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
These appear to be localized to the crimp area.
You could try solder type quick disconnects with heat-shrink tubing as the insulator
to see if that truly is the issue.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Hand <chris_hand(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 9, 2010 2:51 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply wiring issues
>
>I've had some problems with my strobe power supply and/or wiring that I
>haven't quite been able to figure out. Looking to see if any of you have
>seen something similar or have any advice on next steps. Whelen tech
> support has been very helpful and is telling me the power supply checks out
>fine at the factory (ran it on their tester for 2 hrs with no problems) so I
>believe the issue has to be in the connectors or wiring.
>
>Here's the history:
>
>Whelen A413A power supply firing strobes in wingtip A600 fixtures.
>Installed, tested, and worked fine until strobes quit firing at about 50 hrs
>total flight time (I run the strobes whenever the engine is running, except
>for on ground at night and I don't fly at night much). I used 18AWG wire
>for the main power and ground runs, per installation instructions. Power
>supply is installed on floor just behind baggage compartment of my RV-6A.
>Wiring length and guage meets requirements for expected current draw.
>
>On initial failure at approx 50 hrs, I found the ground return wire for main
>power plug to power supply to have overheated, melting the wire and
>connector where my aircraft wiring met the factory harness pigtail (see
>attached photos with "50hrs" in file name).
>
>>From the looks of the overheated connector for ground return wire, I assumed
>I had inadvertently cut wire strands when stripping insulation for connector
>installation, leaving not enough wire guage to carry the expected 7A
> current, thus overheated the connector. So I removed the damaged wire,
>replaced connector with same style (being very careful not to damage wire
>strands and to get a good crimp), and tested strobes with no issues.
>
> Everything worked fine until strobes quit firing again at about 150 hrs
>total time (approx 100 hrs since first issue).
>
> On inspection after the second failure, I found the same connector/crimp to
>have visible heat damage but not to the extent of melting to an open like I
>had the first time. The resistance across this heat damaged connector was
> about 0.8 ohms, but not open (measured after cutting wires on either side
>of the connector without disconnecting the spade terminals). See attached
>pictures with "150hrs" in file name for what it looked like this second time
> around.
>
> I installed a pin/socket style AMP connector for the power and ground vice
>the PIDG style connector, verified I had 12V power at the pin going into the
>power supply, and verified the ground wire pin had continuity to airframe
>ground (the ground return wire is connected to firewall common ground point
>and appears good). But when plugged into the strobe power supply, the power
>supply wouldn't fire the strobes - no charge/discharge noise and no strobe
>lights.
>
> Based on the above, I assumed the power supply must be bad and sent it to
>Whelen factory repair after calling them. They said the power supply checks
>out good and the connectors on the power supply look good. They are sending
>it back to me with a new main power connector harness.
>So, I'll reinstall when I get it back and see if I can get it to work, but
>I'm still at a loss as to what went wrong with the two failures and why it
>wouldn't work when I tried the AMP style connector.
>
> I thought about trying to just ground the power supply locally, but the
>installation instructions state not to do this and I don't want to make a
>change that may result in strobe noise in my avionics systems. My current
>installation (when strobes are working) doesn't have any strobe noise in any
>of my audio/avionics systems. Grounding locally also wouldn't resolve root
>cause on this since the ground return and connector should have been able to
>handle the expected current load.
>
> Some other pictures of power supply wiring runs and installation are at:
> http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg6.htm and 3rd picture down on this page: http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg8.htm#photo3 Any ideas, or something I might be missing? Thanks, ChrisRV-6A, N731CK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
Yes I would measure the voltage on the power supply side of the
connector with everything turned on. ie verify that the power supply is
actually being powered and that the voltage stays at nominally 12 volts
while the power supply is trying to draw current. 12 volts under no load
is quite possible with a bad high resistance connection anywhere in the
circuit - but the voltage may be falling under load.
Ken
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
> These appear to be localized to the crimp area.
>
> You could try solder type quick disconnects with heat-shrink tubing as the insulator
to see if that truly is the issue.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Hand <chris_hand(at)comcast.net>
>> Sent: Sep 9, 2010 2:51 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply wiring issues
>>
>> I've had some problems with my strobe power supply and/or wiring that I
>> haven't quite been able to figure out. Looking to see if any of you have
>> seen something similar or have any advice on next steps. Whelen tech
>> support has been very helpful and is telling me the power supply checks out
>> fine at the factory (ran it on their tester for 2 hrs with no problems) so I
>> believe the issue has to be in the connectors or wiring.
>>
>> Here's the history:
>>
>> Whelen A413A power supply firing strobes in wingtip A600 fixtures.
>> Installed, tested, and worked fine until strobes quit firing at about 50 hrs
>> total flight time (I run the strobes whenever the engine is running, except
>> for on ground at night and I don't fly at night much). I used 18AWG wire
>> for the main power and ground runs, per installation instructions. Power
>> supply is installed on floor just behind baggage compartment of my RV-6A.
>> Wiring length and guage meets requirements for expected current draw.
>>
>> On initial failure at approx 50 hrs, I found the ground return wire for main
>> power plug to power supply to have overheated, melting the wire and
>> connector where my aircraft wiring met the factory harness pigtail (see
>> attached photos with "50hrs" in file name).
>>
>> >From the looks of the overheated connector for ground return wire, I assumed
>> I had inadvertently cut wire strands when stripping insulation for connector
>> installation, leaving not enough wire guage to carry the expected 7A
>> current, thus overheated the connector. So I removed the damaged wire,
>> replaced connector with same style (being very careful not to damage wire
>> strands and to get a good crimp), and tested strobes with no issues.
>>
>> Everything worked fine until strobes quit firing again at about 150 hrs
>> total time (approx 100 hrs since first issue).
>>
>> On inspection after the second failure, I found the same connector/crimp to
>> have visible heat damage but not to the extent of melting to an open like I
>> had the first time. The resistance across this heat damaged connector was
>> about 0.8 ohms, but not open (measured after cutting wires on either side
>> of the connector without disconnecting the spade terminals). See attached
>> pictures with "150hrs" in file name for what it looked like this second time
>> around.
>>
>> I installed a pin/socket style AMP connector for the power and ground vice
>> the PIDG style connector, verified I had 12V power at the pin going into the
>> power supply, and verified the ground wire pin had continuity to airframe
>> ground (the ground return wire is connected to firewall common ground point
>> and appears good). But when plugged into the strobe power supply, the power
>> supply wouldn't fire the strobes - no charge/discharge noise and no strobe
>> lights.
>>
>> Based on the above, I assumed the power supply must be bad and sent it to
>> Whelen factory repair after calling them. They said the power supply checks
>> out good and the connectors on the power supply look good. They are sending
>> it back to me with a new main power connector harness.
>> So, I'll reinstall when I get it back and see if I can get it to work, but
>> I'm still at a loss as to what went wrong with the two failures and why it
>> wouldn't work when I tried the AMP style connector.
>>
>> I thought about trying to just ground the power supply locally, but the
>> installation instructions state not to do this and I don't want to make a
>> change that may result in strobe noise in my avionics systems. My current
>> installation (when strobes are working) doesn't have any strobe noise in any
>> of my audio/avionics systems. Grounding locally also wouldn't resolve root
>> cause on this since the ground return and connector should have been able to
>> handle the expected current load.
>>
>> Some other pictures of power supply wiring runs and installation are at:
>> http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg6.htm and 3rd picture down on this page: http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg8.htm#photo3 Any ideas, or something I might be missing? Thanks, ChrisRV-6A, N731CK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | King KT76TSO circuit breaker |
>
> If you think a 5 amp would be okay, then's just I'll go with that!
>
> Plus, regarding wiring size, I've got a 600' foot roll of 18 ga.
> twisted pair tefzel. I don't have
>any 20 ga AWG on hand.
If you're putting new pins on the wires, 18AWG will
crimp only into larger of the two pins shown on
this data sheet.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_Waldom/Molex_4338_Pins.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
At 02:25 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>These appear to be localized to the crimp area.
>
>You could try solder type quick disconnects with heat-shrink tubing
>as the insulator to see if that truly is the issue.
Agreed. Without having the carcasses to
conduct detailed autopsies, the best guess
is these are (1) non-PIDG terminals (obvious)
installed with (2)a tool that failed to produce
a gas-tight junction between wire and terminal.
An alternative or even a concurrent condition
may be that the interface between male tabe
and female fast-ons are weak. Poor alloy selection
in the fabrication of the terminal could contribute
to both failings.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/faston3.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap Motor and Trim Relays for Ray Allen 4-way switch |
and trim servos
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
Hello Gentlemen,
Just signed onto the aeroelectric list group. Hello! I am in the initial
stages of working on my instrument panel and breaker panel and have come
upon my first technical challenge, as well as many more to come I'm sure.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge and experience with electrons -- and a
quick thank you to Bob and all contributors to the fantastic AeroElectric
book and community --
I would like to actuate my flap system (building a Radial Rocket, Nashville,
TN) via some type of hat switch. It looks like Ray Allen provides something
(part number ROS-4) that would do the trick.
They also provide a relay board that would be able to handle the STSP to
DTDP conversion? Also have a voltage issue, as my system is 28V.
The flap motor is rated at 24V to possibly as much as 8 amps which knocks
the Ray Allen relay board out.
What I "think" I need is one relay board per flap action (up and down) that
can handle an 8amp draw from the motor, the small 11 mA ground signal from
the 4-Way hat switch and the 28V system. Is this correct?
I have no background in this but plenty of time to learn. Just looking for
some experienced hands here that can perhaps provide a schematic for the
following devices (again, devices that I "think" I need to make the
following work safely):
Ray Allen ROS-4 -- Two 4-way hat switches -- one per hand grip:
throttle: rudder trim on one axis, flaps on another
flight stick: aileron on one axis, elevator on other
Ray Allen REG-1 -- 12V Voltage Regulator (2, one per hat switch?)
Ray Allen REL-2 -- Relay board (3, one for aileron trim servo, one for
elevator servo, and one for rudder servo)
Ray Allen POS-12 -- flap position sensor for max 1.2 inches of travel
One, unknown Relay Board that will handle the above flap system. ??
Flap Motor: 24VDC, 3A No load, 8A up to 500 lbs, Motion Systems Corp model
#85151, part number 73485, Motor # PE2433R
Quite a lengthy hello to the group I know so thank you for any attention or
advice you can provide.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hand" <chris_hand(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
Thanks Bob, I'll try a different connector type when I get the power
supply back from Whelen.
I do still have the second carcass (the less damaged one from 150 hr
point) and it's possible I might have the original melted one if I
didn't lose or toss it when I moved my plane and hangar contents to a
different airport a few months back (E16 to KRHV move in San Jose, CA
area). I didn't cut the crimp area to look at cross-section but the
fast-on tabs looked normal and the grip strength was good when I
seperated the male and female sides after checking resistance across the
connector. I'd be happy to send you the carcass I have, or both if I
can find the first one, if you're interested in examining the crimps and
connector.
The crimp tool I used was a ratcheting AMP ProCrimper I bought from
Chief Aircraft prior to starting the electrical system. I used it
throughout construction and have had no problems with any other
connectors. Most of my other crimp tools (pin & socket, and D-sub crimp
tool) I bought from B&C or SteinAir so I've got high confidence in the
tools used, and I used your crimping and other articles pretty
extensively as references during my build.
I bought most of my fast-on connectors from sources like B&C or Stein,
but towards the end of the electrical system construction (i.e. around
when I was putting the lighting systems in) I bought some connectors
from places like Home Depot and Fry's, so not sure which ones are on the
ground wire I've had problems with but that could be the issue. Since
the second connector that burned was installed well after my plane
started flying, I'm pretty sure it's of the Home Depot / Fry's pedigree.
Prior to starting the electrical system part of my project, I bought and
read your book and read many/most of your articles, including the ones
you linked below, before and during construction (many thanks for your
contributions and assistance to our community!). I also had a pretty
firm electrical theory and practical experience foundation as a prior
Navy nuclear power field Electrician's Mate before reading your
material. My error may have been the Home Depot / Fry's connector
source but I haven't seen anything obvious on these two particular
crimps/connectors that would lead me to believe they shouldn't have been
able to handle the expected 7A load.
Assuming Whelen is correct that the power supply is operating properly
then clearly in both the 50 hr and 150 hr failure, that one single crimp
was inadequate, at least over time, resulting in significant
overheating. I just don't understand why yet.
I'll let you know when I get it hooked up and tested again. I
appreciate your feedback.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply wiring issues
At 02:25 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote:
These appear to be localized to the crimp area.
You could try solder type quick disconnects with heat-shrink tubing
as the insulator to see if that truly is the issue.
Agreed. Without having the carcasses to
conduct detailed autopsies, the best guess
is these are (1) non-PIDG terminals (obvious)
installed with (2)a tool that failed to produce
a gas-tight junction between wire and terminal.
An alternative or even a concurrent condition
may be that the interface between male tabe
and female fast-ons are weak. Poor alloy selection
in the fabrication of the terminal could contribute
to both failings.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/faston3.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ciolino" <johnciolino(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
Chris,
I had a somewhat similar problem in my strobe switch, It felt very hot to
the touch although it did not burn the terminal or wire. I took things
apart and I found that it was the wire teriminal that was getting hot (and
making the wire and switch hot).
The push on connector felt tight on the tab, but at the suggestion of our
local tech advisor, I squeezed the tab, forced on the connector (it was
really tight now) and my problem was solved.
Something to look into to.
John Ciolino
RV-8
N9394Y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hand" <chris_hand(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe power supply wiring issues
> I've had some problems with my strobe power supply and/or wiring that I
> haven't quite been able to figure out. Looking to see if any of you have
> seen something similar or have any advice on next steps. Whelen tech
> support has been very helpful and is telling me the power supply checks
> out
> fine at the factory (ran it on their tester for 2 hrs with no problems) so
> I
> believe the issue has to be in the connectors or wiring.
>
> Here's the history:
>
> Whelen A413A power supply firing strobes in wingtip A600 fixtures.
> Installed, tested, and worked fine until strobes quit firing at about 50
> hrs
> total flight time (I run the strobes whenever the engine is running,
> except
> for on ground at night and I don't fly at night much). I used 18AWG wire
> for the main power and ground runs, per installation instructions. Power
> supply is installed on floor just behind baggage compartment of my RV-6A.
> Wiring length and guage meets requirements for expected current draw.
>
> On initial failure at approx 50 hrs, I found the ground return wire for
> main
> power plug to power supply to have overheated, melting the wire and
> connector where my aircraft wiring met the factory harness pigtail (see
> attached photos with "50hrs" in file name).
>
>>From the looks of the overheated connector for ground return wire, I
>>assumed
> I had inadvertently cut wire strands when stripping insulation for
> connector
> installation, leaving not enough wire guage to carry the expected 7A
> current, thus overheated the connector. So I removed the damaged wire,
> replaced connector with same style (being very careful not to damage wire
> strands and to get a good crimp), and tested strobes with no issues.
>
> Everything worked fine until strobes quit firing again at about 150 hrs
> total time (approx 100 hrs since first issue).
>
> On inspection after the second failure, I found the same connector/crimp
> to
> have visible heat damage but not to the extent of melting to an open like
> I
> had the first time. The resistance across this heat damaged connector was
> about 0.8 ohms, but not open (measured after cutting wires on either side
> of the connector without disconnecting the spade terminals). See
> attached
> pictures with "150hrs" in file name for what it looked like this second
> time
> around.
>
> I installed a pin/socket style AMP connector for the power and ground vice
> the PIDG style connector, verified I had 12V power at the pin going into
> the
> power supply, and verified the ground wire pin had continuity to airframe
> ground (the ground return wire is connected to firewall common ground
> point
> and appears good). But when plugged into the strobe power supply, the
> power
> supply wouldn't fire the strobes - no charge/discharge noise and no strobe
> lights.
>
> Based on the above, I assumed the power supply must be bad and sent it to
> Whelen factory repair after calling them. They said the power supply
> checks
> out good and the connectors on the power supply look good. They are
> sending
> it back to me with a new main power connector harness.
> So, I'll reinstall when I get it back and see if I can get it to work, but
> I'm still at a loss as to what went wrong with the two failures and why it
> wouldn't work when I tried the AMP style connector.
>
> I thought about trying to just ground the power supply locally, but the
> installation instructions state not to do this and I don't want to make a
> change that may result in strobe noise in my avionics systems. My current
> installation (when strobes are working) doesn't have any strobe noise in
> any
> of my audio/avionics systems. Grounding locally also wouldn't resolve
> root
> cause on this since the ground return and connector should have been able
> to
> handle the expected current load.
>
> Some other pictures of power supply wiring runs and installation are at:
> http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg6.htm
> and 3rd picture down on this page:
> http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/panelAndElectrical/electrical/electricalPg8.htm#photo3
> Any ideas, or something I might be missing? Thanks, ChrisRV-6A, N731CK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Exp Bus with Jab 3300 |
| From: | "ple190" <plge190(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Any one have a diagram for the alternator/regulator wiring for this combo.
Which wire connects to the Alt Field switch ? Also is there any point using a
B&C over voltage protection kit as the exp bus has a built in OV cutoff ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312018#312018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
At 07:04 AM 9/10/2010, you wrote:
Chris,
I had a somewhat similar problem in my strobe switch, It felt very
hot to the touch although it did not burn the terminal or wire. I
took things apart and I found that it was the wire teriminal that
was getting hot (and making the wire and switch hot).
The push on connector felt tight on the tab, but at the suggestion of
our local tech advisor, I squeezed the tab, forced on the connector
(it was really tight now) and my problem was solved.
What brand of fast-on terminals are you using?
Something to look into to.
Many List members will recall some discussions we had
a couple years ago about switch failures . . .
http://tinyurl.com/2a2qqp
Go to the http://matronics.com/search and check
the AeroElectric archives for
carling switch failures
from the time a wire approaches one of these
switches until it winds its way off to new
adventures there's a substantial string of
metal-to-metal joints in series with the
current flow.
(1) wire to terminal grip
(2) fast-on grip to fast-on tab
(3) fast-on-tab to rivet head
(4) Rivet to saddle
(5) saddle to rocker
(6) rocker to contact
(7) contact to contact rivet
(8) contact rivet to fast-on tab
(9) fast-on grip to fast-on tab
(10) wire to terminal grip
In the case of Carlings, the most mechanically
fragile are 3, 4, and 8 because clamp-
up forces on the joints come against
plastic housings. The most environmentally
fragile are 5 and 7 because they cannot
strive for gas tightness.
Unfortunately, there are stresses
on the gas-tight interfaces that can degrade the
joint including process (wrong tool or
inadequate workmanship), materials (poor
choice of alloys, plating, etc), environment
vibration opens joints, moisture gets in,
etc) and even perhaps design (rare).
Once any of these joints is compromised,
it's resistance goes up, electron flow and
physical heating combined with moisture
and oxygen promote corrosion which further
degrades mechanical and electrical integrity
of the joint. It's a slay-ride down a steep
hill after that.
The most demanding circuit in the airplane
is strobes. 5-7 amps, continuous duty for
duration of flight.
When these failures are observed, there IS
an explanation that is rooted in failure to
maintain very low ohmic contact between
all the pieces and parts. Failures can
begin in any one or any one or combination
of the ten joints cited above.
Failures cited at the initial posting of this
thread have one-for-one commonality with
failures and probable causes explored in the
discussion on switch failures last year.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply wiring issues |
At 12:42 AM 9/10/2010, you wrote:
Thanks Bob, I'll try a different connector type when I get the power
supply back from Whelen.
I do still have the second carcass (the less damaged one from 150 hr
point) and it's possible I might have the original melted one if I
didn't lose or toss it when I moved my plane and hangar contents to a
different airport a few months back (E16 to KRHV move in San Jose, CA
area). I didn't cut the crimp area to look at cross-section but the
fast-on tabs looked normal and the grip strength was good when I
seperated the male and female sides after checking resistance across
the connector. I'd be happy to send you the carcass I have, or both
if I can find the first one, if you're interested in examining the
crimps and connector.
Yes, I'd like to do that.
Localized heating as demonstrated by color of
the insulation tells us the failure was loss
of gas-tightness in that area. We only need
to deduce root cause.
The crimp tool I used was a ratcheting AMP ProCrimper I bought from
Chief Aircraft prior to starting the electrical system. I used it
throughout construction and have had no problems with any other connectors.
But are the fast-on terminals also made by AMP?
The total bulk of insulator, sleeve, terminal
material and strands of wire controls how much
pressure the tool brings to bear on the joint.
If you have more of the same terminals, crimp
a couple of terminals onto a scrap of the same wire
and send that too.
My error may have been the Home Depot / Fry's connector source but
I haven't seen anything obvious on these two particular
crimps/connectors that would lead me to believe they shouldn't have
been able to handle the expected 7A load.
Oops . . . current doesn't have much to
do with joint failure . . . only the RATE
of degradation once gas-tightness is lost.
These kinds of failures DID NOT initiate
in the few hours preceding events that brought
the failures to your attention.
Inadequate installation or improper mating
of parts, materials and tools may have given
you incipient failures that started marching off
toward overt failure in the first hours of flight.
One problem I've seen on fast-on terminals with
indeterminate pedigree is the alloy. Some copper
alloys are NOT capable of sustained mating forces
over time, vibration, temperature cycles.
Assuming Whelen is correct that the power supply is operating
properly then clearly in both the 50 hr and 150 hr failure, that one
single crimp was inadequate, at least over time, resulting in
significant overheating. I just don't understand why yet.
Let's see if we can figure it out.
I'll let you know when I get it hooked up and tested again. I
appreciate your feedback.
My pleasure . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
It would certainly be greener to get companies to minimize shipping charges (that
could be a click-box!). I get a lot of little packages where HS tubing, metal
rods, etc. are packed like gun barrels. It would take a only a few seconds
of thinking to minimize the shipping charges.
I also try to stop big, expensive printed catalogs, when I use the Internet almost
exclusively. What does Digi-key's 2800-page catalog cost?
Somebody is making $$$ off this waste.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312133#312133
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Motor and Trim Relays for Ray Allen 4-way |
switch and trim servos
Andy,
Have you considered the Intelligent Flap Controller
<http://www.tcwtech.com/IFC-1-page.htm> from TCW Tech? Seems like this
will do all of the switching for you.
Also, have you considered the stick grip from Tosten Manufacturing
<http://www.tostenmanufacturing.com/catalog/aircraft-grips/>, perhaps
linked up to a TCW Safety-Trim
<http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm> box?
Regards, Peter
On 10/09/2010 05:10, Andy Hawes wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Andy Hawes
>
> Hello Gentlemen,
>
> Just signed onto the aeroelectric list group. Hello! I am in the initial
> stages of working on my instrument panel and breaker panel and have come
> upon my first technical challenge, as well as many more to come I'm sure.
> Please excuse my lack of knowledge and experience with electrons -- and a
> quick thank you to Bob and all contributors to the fantastic AeroElectric
> book and community --
>
> I would like to actuate my flap system (building a Radial Rocket, Nashville,
> TN) via some type of hat switch. It looks like Ray Allen provides something
> (part number ROS-4) that would do the trick.
>
> They also provide a relay board that would be able to handle the STSP to
> DTDP conversion? Also have a voltage issue, as my system is 28V.
>
> The flap motor is rated at 24V to possibly as much as 8 amps which knocks
> the Ray Allen relay board out.
>
> What I "think" I need is one relay board per flap action (up and down) that
> can handle an 8amp draw from the motor, the small 11 mA ground signal from
> the 4-Way hat switch and the 28V system. Is this correct?
>
> I have no background in this but plenty of time to learn. Just looking for
> some experienced hands here that can perhaps provide a schematic for the
> following devices (again, devices that I "think" I need to make the
> following work safely):
>
> Ray Allen ROS-4 -- Two 4-way hat switches -- one per hand grip:
> throttle: rudder trim on one axis, flaps on another
> flight stick: aileron on one axis, elevator on other
>
> Ray Allen REG-1 -- 12V Voltage Regulator (2, one per hat switch?)
>
> Ray Allen REL-2 -- Relay board (3, one for aileron trim servo, one for
> elevator servo, and one for rudder servo)
>
> Ray Allen POS-12 -- flap position sensor for max 1.2 inches of travel
>
> One, unknown Relay Board that will handle the above flap system. ??
>
> Flap Motor: 24VDC, 3A No load, 8A up to 500 lbs, Motion Systems Corp model
> #85151, part number 73485, Motor # PE2433R
>
>
> Quite a lengthy hello to the group I know so thank you for any attention or
> advice you can provide.
>
> Andy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
At 09:25 AM 9/11/2010, you wrote:
>
>It would certainly be greener to get companies to minimize shipping
>charges (that could be a click-box!). I get a lot of little packages
>where HS tubing, metal rods, etc. are packed like gun barrels. It
>would take a only a few seconds of thinking to minimize the shipping charges.
Living in the hinterlands, I get a LOT of stuff
delivered to my mailbox and front porch. Yeah,
from time to time I get a tiny what'sit in a
big box but in the grand scheme of things I
find that most packaging is appropriate to the
task. Go watch the folks at the shipping tables
of an operation like Digikey. Digikey has UPS
and FEDEX airplanes sitting at the Thief River
Falls International Airport awaiting just THEIR
shipping tasks for the day. To suggest that these
or similarly engaged folks are institutionally
or environmentally irresponsible is something of a stretch.
The reason we shop with those folks is because they're
fast and priced at a level we're willing to pay.
To put some "click box" generated wrench in their
flow of tasks to satisfy what is probably the
wishes of one customer in 1000 is . . . well . . .
It's a free market. If you don't like the way
some supplier is treating you . . . find a
more pleasing supplier . . .
>I also try to stop big, expensive printed catalogs, when I use the
>Internet almost exclusively. What does Digi-key's 2800-page catalog cost?
You can go to your profile in Digikey and shut off
the paper catalog mailings. I got a 6-pounder from
Mouser yesterday, got to get that shut off too.
At the same time, the paper catalog is exceedingly
useful to some customers when doing comparison
shopping . . . you and I go to the website and
punch in a number . . . we already knew. But
when it comes to browsing the constellation of
choices, thumbing through the pages is hard to
beat. Catalogs are also a huge teaching tool
for the neophyte purchaser. You have illustrations,
descriptions, specs, prices, jargon . . . all
those mystifying things surrounding electro-whizzies
that have to be learned. And you get it all in
a FREE textbook.
>Somebody is making $$$ off this waste.
Lots of folks are making money keeping a lot of customers
coming back for exemplary service and quality. Pushing
our judgements of "waste" onto their activities can
be a consideration for picking amongst the various
service providers. But to launch a crusade based
upon that judgement is counter-productive and guaranteed
to be ineffectual.
Bob . . .
>--------
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge, MA 01550
>(508) 764-2072
>emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312133#312133
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>09/11/10 01:34:00
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Extra switch function ideas? |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
When I was figuring out my ground power jack switching, I thought that it would
be nice to have a test function in the switch to protect my electrical system
from inadvertent reverse polarity or excessive voltage.
So, nevermind that Bob's design took all this into account, I got a cool Honeywell
switch that is a 3 position, MOM-MAINTAIN-MAINTAIN. My myopia became apparent
when I was doing my wire book page for this circuit and I saw that the "test"
function (MOM position) did nothing different than just throwing the switch
for GP function. If something was amiss, per Bob's design, the 2a breaker
fries and you investigate.
So my question to the group is , What else might I use the MOM function of the
switch for, other than to connect it to my brain to push ON before I start thinking
about cool ideas.
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312154#312154
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Need 5a Klixon, Have 15a. Swap? |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
New 15a Klixon.
I need a 5a.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312155#312155
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Need 5a Klixon, Have 15a. Swap? |
> New 15a Klixon.
>
> I need a 5a.
>
> John
John=2C
I have a 5A Klixon I'd be willing to trade with you. It's not new=2C but
I'm fairly certain
it works just fine. I have a couple of spares. If you're interested=2C gi
ve me a call.
Mike Welch
573-480-9802
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Hi Bob,
I'm ready for 9024 installation. Where are we in the 9024's gestation?
And can one 9024 serve as a multifunction device, i.e. acting as a contactor manager,
OVP, LVW, & ABMM simultaneously, or do I need a unit for each function
desired?
Thanks,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312213#312213
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
In January 2008, I ordered several edge card connectors as well as two 4 foot lengths
and one 8 foot of shrink tubing from Newark. Guess what? The order was
shipped in 4 boxes; a separate box for each length of shrink tubing. I was
charged $25.51 shipping for a $19.43 order (total $44.94).
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312226#312226
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airworthiness Cert Received |
To my friends on all the Matronics lists that have helped me in many ways
over the years.
Some of you I have met in person, so many that I have never met but have
been with me
through this project since 2002.
I just want to say thank you for the encouragement, help, sound advice, in
formation, photos, drawings, parts, ideas, techniques, web sites, lessons
learned, stories, debates, Scotchbrite advice,humor and especially the fr
iendships.
Many of you don't even know how much you've helped, but your contribution
and presence on the lists
have been a tremendous help.
Yesterday, I had my inspection completed and received my airworthiness cer
tificate. I'm surrounded by
many experienced pilots at Spadaro Airport in Long Island, NY to help me
through the next phase of this
adventure/dream/crazy idea. Thanks Matt Dralle for making it all happen he
re.
I especially want to thank these people from the lists.
Zenith-list- Zenith601 list- Zenith701801 list
Robert Pelland, Geoff Heap, George Race, Johann G(Iceland), Jon Croke,Chuc
k Deiterich, John Marzulli, Zed Smith, Larry Martin, Ben Haas, Gary Liming
, Tommy Walker, Larrt McFarland, Bud Spudis, Keith Ashcraft, Bill Naumuk,
Ben Rambler, Max Johnson, Ken Szewc, Gary Gower, David Downey, Mike Brown
, Frank Hinde, Scott Laughlin, Michel Therrien, Mark Townsend, Jeff Davids
on, Jay Bannister, Bill Steer, Craig Payne.
Kitfox-List
Noel Loveys
RotaxEngines-List
Roger Lee
Thom Riddle
Gilles Thesee
Ron Parigoris
Aeroelectric-List
Bob Nuckolls
Jeff Dalton
Vern Little
Brian K Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://www.701builder.com
Brian K Unruh
Long Island, NY
http://www.701builder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
Last week while flying my Lancair Legacy, one of my two "glass cockpit"
screens went dark. The two screens are redundant, so continuing the
flight was no problem. When I landed and back in the hangar, I replaced
the fuse, hoping for the cheap and easy fix. Surprisingly, it seemed to
fix the problem. Although the fuse I removed still looked good, the
screen powered up normally with the new fuse. However, after about five
minutes, I happened to touch the joint where the power wire connects to
the fuse block and it was almost too hot to touch.
I figured I had a bad crimp on the Fast-On connector that attaches to
the tab on the fuse block. I cut it off and tested it with my VOM. But
I couldn't find any problem with it. I soldered a new piece of wire to
replace the part I cut off and crimped a new Fast-On connector. I
guessed that the fuse for some reason hadn't formed a gas-tight
connection and removed and replaced it a number of times to burnish off
the corrosion. I replaced the fuse and it now worked perfectly.
The fuse block, the ATO fuse, and the Fast-On connector were all name
brand. The connector was Amp PIDG. There was no heat damage visible on
the connector, which looked perfectly good. And tested perfectly good.
The screen takes 2.0 amps at 14 volts and is fused at 5 amps. I have
350 hours and 3.5 years flying time on the airplane.
Anybody have a better hypotheses than the "internal corrosion between
the tabs of the fuse and the fuse holder?" The fuse block is under the
glareshield and protected from the elements.
Thanks,
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
At 03:48 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
>In January 2008, I ordered several edge card connectors as well as
>two 4 foot lengths and one 8 foot of shrink tubing from
>Newark. Guess what? The order was shipped in 4 boxes; a separate
>box for each length of shrink tubing. I was charged $25.51 shipping
>for a $19.43 order (total $44.94).
Did you talk to them about it and if so, what
did they do for you?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ciolino" <johnciolino(at)comcast.net> |
I had the same problem with a hot connection to my strobe switch. Although
the fast-on connector felt tight on the tab when I pulled it, at the advice
of a knowledgeable friend, I crimped the ears of the tab down so it was even
tighter on the tab. It solved the problem. My next step, if that didn't
work, was to re crimp the connector onto the wire.
John Ciolino
RV-8
N894Y
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Johnson
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:32 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bad Fuseblock?
Last week while flying my Lancair Legacy, one of my two "glass cockpit"
screens went dark. The two screens are redundant, so continuing the flight
was no problem. When I landed and back in the hangar, I replaced the fuse,
hoping for the cheap and easy fix. Surprisingly, it seemed to fix the
problem. Although the fuse I removed still looked good, the screen powered
up normally with the new fuse. However, after about five minutes, I
happened to touch the joint where the power wire connects to the fuse block
and it was almost too hot to touch.
I figured I had a bad crimp on the Fast-On connector that attaches to the
tab on the fuse block. I cut it off and tested it with my VOM. But I
couldn't find any problem with it. I soldered a new piece of wire to
replace the part I cut off and crimped a new Fast-On connector. I guessed
that the fuse for some reason hadn't formed a gas-tight connection and
removed and replaced it a number of times to burnish off the corrosion. I
replaced the fuse and it now worked perfectly.
The fuse block, the ATO fuse, and the Fast-On connector were all name brand.
The connector was Amp PIDG. There was no heat damage visible on the
connector, which looked perfectly good. And tested perfectly good. The
screen takes 2.0 amps at 14 volts and is fused at 5 amps. I have 350 hours
and 3.5 years flying time on the airplane.
Anybody have a better hypotheses than the "internal corrosion between the
tabs of the fuse and the fuse holder?" The fuse block is under the
glareshield and protected from the elements.
Thanks,
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
> At 03:48 PM 9/12/2010, you wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In January 2008, I ordered several edge card connectors as well as
> > two 4 foot lengths and one 8 foot of shrink tubing from
> > Newark. Guess what? The order was shipped in 4 boxes; a separate
> > box for each length of shrink tubing. I was charged $25.51 shipping
> > for a $19.43 order (total $44.94).
> >
> >
>
> Did you talk to them about it and if so, what
> did they do for you?
>
>
> Bob . . .
After wasting a lot my time arguing with their customer service dept. in several
e-mails, I made a phone call, and they offered me a $10 credit.
I had originally asked for a REFUND of $15 (not a credit). As is usual, in these
cases, the reality is that if you value your time (and frustration) at all,
you may as well forget it and count it as "tuition." The likelihood that I will
return to Newark and use that credit is NIL.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312404#312404
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi!
I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF. To this
fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of 6" and a fat
24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter case bolt. The fat
wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable.
A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where all the
engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single ground wire that
will be connected to the engine block ground. So far, so good.
But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to the firewall
with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be grounded through
case or threads threads. In my installation this would ground it to the firewall.
MGL says to also run a ground wire from the sender to the engine block
ground. I believe people have had problems with senders that are grounded to
the firewall instead of the engine block. It's unclear to me if any of the engine
block grounded senders were also grounded to the firewall, which is my situation.
Wouldn't this create a ground loop problem?
Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to the engine
block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender ground wire to
the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from the firewall.
This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum bracket with
one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be to mount the sender
to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate the clamps.
The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are 229.0-242.5
and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using the mechanical pump
along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should be in the 1-5 psi range.
Thanks for your help :-)
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
Dan,
I just went through this with a VDO sender. OK, so senders are not high
voltage and the forest is already grounded to the engine block right?
The test that tipped me off was to check the ohms value between the
sender contact and ground. That tells you a couple of things, 1. The
sender is working or at least returning a signal (mine did nothing which
gave away the fact that it was bad. Dynon tells me they almost never
fail, so I guess I should play the lottery). If the engine ground is
significantly better, your ohms value will likely increase.
If MGL is worth their salt, they will know the appropriate ohms reading
you should receive in the above test. You'll need a 50 ohm resistor to
put between the sender and the positive lead on your tester. Touch the
ground side of the tester first to the forest, then to the engine block.
Record the readings.
I'm sure they're chatty about connecting the sender to the block as to
share a common ground with the RDAC. That's pretty common among vendors
- CYA. I've no idea why their instrument box has to go directly to
engine ground while the rest of the universe connects their stuff to
firewall grounds. Oh well.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
messydeer
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
Hi!
I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF.
To this fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of
6" and a fat 24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter
case bolt. The fat wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable.
A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where
all the engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single
ground wire that will be connected to the engine block ground. So far,
so good.
But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to
the firewall with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be
grounded through case or threads threads. In my installation this would
ground it to the firewall. MGL says to also run a ground wire from the
sender to the engine block ground. I believe people have had problems
with senders that are grounded to the firewall instead of the engine
block. It's unclear to me if any of the engine block grounded senders
were also grounded to the firewall, which is my situation. Wouldn't this
create a ground loop problem?
Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to
the engine block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender
ground wire to the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from
the firewall.
This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum
bracket with one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be
to mount the sender to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate
the clamps.
The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are
229.0-242.5 and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using
the mechanical pump along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should
be in the 1-5 psi range.
Thanks for your help :-)
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
Hi there Dan,
I don't think that it will be a problem; I did something similar with the
Tundra that I built and so far there have not been any noise issues (which
would be indicative of a ground loop problem). I used the firewall as a big
negative terminal, and also had dedicated 'tab forests' in the cabin to
ground all the instruments. The trick is to have a good connection between
the firewall and the engine as well- a thick wire or two that will provide a
good solid low impedance path. I used 2 separate connections made up from
braided wire from the firewall to the engine block. The negative of the
engine battery was then also grounded to the firewall and the second battery
(at the back of the aircraft) was grounded to a nearby rib. You need this
in any case to carry your cranking current...
I have also used MGl equipment and had the RDAC firewall forward; all the
instrument values came through without any problems.
A small plug for these guys- they have been fantastic in terms of service;
whenever I have a fault on one of their instruments (occasionally with their
very early line of instruments) they have been very quick with the repair;
I'll send the instrument to them on a Monday, say, and get it back on the
Thursday-normally repaired for free. Of course I am located in South
Africa, where they are based, but I have been impressed with the turnaround
time.
I also had a problem in that the ECU for the engine that is being used (a
Subaru prepared by the now defunct Crossflow) processed many of the
instrument readings and then made them available via a bus. MGL developed
an interface for this, free of charge, using their ICAN attachment, and I
can now display all the values that are processed by the ECU on the MGL
Odyssey.
If anyone here has had issues with the Crossflow Subaru engines, have a look
at my blog to see what was done with the problems that I encountered
(www.rawhyde.wordpress.com)
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
Sent: 14 September 2010 06:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
Hi!
I have a SS firewall with a brass grounding tab forest bolted to it FWF. To
this fwl ground bolt I have connected a fat battery negative lead of 6" and
a fat 24" engine block ground going to the far end of my starter case bolt.
The fat wires are #4 copper stranded welding cable.
A couple inches away from the firewall ground I have an MGL RDAC, where all
the engine instrument positive leads connect. The RDAC has a single ground
wire that will be connected to the engine block ground. So far, so good.
But I also have a Stewart Warner fuel pressure sender that is mounted to the
firewall with an aluminum bracket. The SW sender is designed to be grounded
through case or threads threads. In my installation this would ground it to
the firewall. MGL says to also run a ground wire from the sender to the
engine block ground. I believe people have had problems with senders that
are grounded to the firewall instead of the engine block. It's unclear to me
if any of the engine block grounded senders were also grounded to the
firewall, which is my situation. Wouldn't this create a ground loop problem?
Seems I'd have three options. One, run a ground wire from the sender to the
engine block and hope for the best. Two, do not connect this sender ground
wire to the block. Three, electrically isolate the sender from the firewall.
This last option could be done by replacing the 2x2x1.5 090 aluminum bracket
with one made from non-conductive material. Another way might be to mount
the sender to the engine mount tubes, using rubber to insulate the clamps.
The SW sender is an 82504, 15 psi labeled 240 ohms. 0 psi limits are
229.0-242.5 and full rating 27-43 ohms. My engine is a Jab 3300 using the
mechanical pump along with a Facet pump for backup. Pressures should be in
the 1-5 psi range.
Thanks for your help :-)
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312426#312426
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_pressure_sender_mounted_181.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, guys :-)
I didn't quite understand why the 50 ohm load between the sender pos and probe.
Is this to mimic a load created by a fuel pressure?
I did check some ohm readings with my Fluke 83. Across the sender itself is 240.0
ohms, just what they said it should be.
If I assume the engine block as ground, then the ground path would be either through
the firewall to the firewall ground plate and through the fat cable to the
engine block, or it would go through the 20awg wire ground attached between
the sender and engine block. So I measured 0.1 ohm for both paths. Could this
mean there would be less of a ground loop problem than, for example, if one
of the paths was 0.1 and the other 0.4?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312442#312442
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
Dan,
1. Yes, the resistor mimics activity from the fuel sensor. If the sender
were bad it would not produce any reading.
2. Don't lose sleep searching for ground loops (unless the noise is
rather obvious) for something as brainless as a fuel pressure sensor. If
you are getting faulty readings, that's one thing, but if it works as
advertised you are not affecting the term life of the unit. As a rule of
thumb follow the directions and connect it to the same ground source as
the other related products. If they are all 2 ohms difference you'll
never see/hear the variance in the equipment (unless of course it's
manifested as interference in combination with other resistive building
grounds).
3. The best ground has no resistance, Rg = .01 is best. Nothing is
perfect, lower is good.
4. I'm no electronics guru but I've worked on enough junk to realize a
good ground buys more steak than a good power lead. Spend the time to
build good grounds into your system, you won't regret.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
messydeer
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:20 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
Thanks, guys :-)
I didn't quite understand why the 50 ohm load between the sender pos and
probe. Is this to mimic a load created by a fuel pressure?
I did check some ohm readings with my Fluke 83. Across the sender itself
is 240.0 ohms, just what they said it should be.
If I assume the engine block as ground, then the ground path would be
either through the firewall to the firewall ground plate and through the
fat cable to the engine block, or it would go through the 20awg wire
ground attached between the sender and engine block. So I measured 0.1
ohm for both paths. Could this mean there would be less of a ground
loop problem than, for example, if one of the paths was 0.1 and the
other 0.4?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312442#312442
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
| From: | "messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com> |
K, Glen.
The primary purpose of my fuel pressure sender is to tell me that my boost and
mechanical pumps work. They're plumbed in series. I've never started an airplane
engine, but I believe on startup, I'd turn the boos pump on. I should see a
rapid rise to around 3 psi. I think I'd turn the pump off momentarily after startup
to check that the mechanical is working, then back on again until altitude
is reached.
I don't think it would have to be accurate within 1 psi, as long as the relative
changes could be seen. I've heard from only a few people, but nobody has said
they've had any problem with ground loops in senders wired similar to mine.
Unless I hear differently, I'll mount mine as planned. If it turns out to be a
problem and requires an insulated mount, I've found a place on the firewall I
could stick a fiberglass bracket without much problem.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312469#312469
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop? |
Dan,
Sounds like you're on your way. You can easily test the boost psi by
turning on the master before starting and running the boost pump 2-3
seconds before starting. For cold starts this is a typical procedure. Do
this with the throttle wide open and then open the mixture until you see
the pressure increase.
Have Fun - that's why we're here,
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
messydeer
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel Pressure Sender Ground Loop?
K, Glen.
The primary purpose of my fuel pressure sender is to tell me that my
boost and mechanical pumps work. They're plumbed in series. I've never
started an airplane engine, but I believe on startup, I'd turn the boos
pump on. I should see a rapid rise to around 3 psi. I think I'd turn the
pump off momentarily after startup to check that the mechanical is
working, then back on again until altitude is reached.
I don't think it would have to be accurate within 1 psi, as long as the
relative changes could be seen. I've heard from only a few people, but
nobody has said they've had any problem with ground loops in senders
wired similar to mine. Unless I hear differently, I'll mount mine as
planned. If it turns out to be a problem and requires an insulated
mount, I've found a place on the firewall I could stick a fiberglass
bracket without much problem.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312469#312469
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
>After wasting a lot my time arguing with their customer service
>dept. in several e-mails, I made a phone call, and they offered me a
>$10 credit.
>
>I had originally asked for a REFUND of $15 (not a credit). As is
>usual, in these cases, the reality is that if you value your time
>(and frustration) at all, you may as well forget it and count it as
>"tuition." The likelihood that I will return to Newark and use that
>credit is NIL.
Good move if it fits your business model
for maximizing your return on investment
for doing business with any particular
supplier.
I would caution readers of this thread
that these are anecdotal events that happen
many thousands of times a day over the
spectrum of net-order suppliers. I've
had it happen to me but I don't recall
it being a repeat event. In the grand
scheme of things, the frequency of problems
was so low and the $time$ it takes to resolve
them so high that the events were tiny bumps
on the cash flow curve.
I know that for many of you, you may
order parts from a supplier perhaps a half
dozen times in your lifetime. So one event
is significant when it stands alone . . . but
in terms of total time and dollars invested
in your airplane, it's probably just a little
bump too.
Every shipping department has the newbies
and airheads that can generate problems for
a few . . . but those folks tend to become
identified and move to lower risk activities
or fired.
The point is that unless one knows the total
numbers of satisfactory shipping events
compared to unhappy ones we're hearing
about, you probably don't have enough
data to add any particular vendor to the
shipping department black-list.
Spent ten minutes waiting in a line to pick
up a prescription that was ready to be paid
with a scan, swipe and 6 keystrokes. A 30-second
transaction.
But the lady behind the counter was wrestling
with a 'non-standard' transaction. She was
a one-finger, hunt-n-peck typist and obviously
had not mastered the computer. Nonetheless,
5 people behind the counter were 'busy' with
other things while the computer beeped, she
exclaimed 'oh-dear', and folks in line with
me managed to contain their exclamations.
But I am disappointed that Mouser didn't
man-up better too. That suggests a shortcoming
in more than one department . . . do present
trends plotted into the future make this
a portent of things to come?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Single shunt for two alternators? |
| From: | "N601RT" <N601RT(at)comcast.net> |
Bob and Gang,
I'm building an RV-7A using with an Advanced Flight System (AFS) Advanced Deck
4500s. The 4500s supports a single shunt and has the option for a hall effect
transducer to read the output of a second alternator. AFS recommends mounting
the hall effect transducer on the cabin side of the firewall and that means bringing
the B-lead of one alternator through the firewall.
I'm basically using Z-12 with a Plane Power 60A alternator for my primary alternator
and a SD-20 for my aux alternator with a B&C stand-by regulator. I'm not
planning the current sensor for the B&C stand-by regulator show on Z-12.
I'm considering using a single shunt that has both alternator outputs connected
to one side and the other side of the shunt connected to a ANL60 which would
connect to the starter contactor. I would turn on the SD-20 to verify it was operational
as part of preflight before turning on the PP-60A alternator. Above
idle, the two alternators should not be delivering power at the same time. I
think this would allow me to monitor the output of both alternators AND allow
me to eliminate the cabin side hall effect transducer.
I'd like help understanding the downside to sharing a single shunt that I may not
be seeing.
Regards,
Roy
Flying N601RT: 2003 CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
1475hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312540#312540
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
It has been over a week since Milly at Mouser promised to refund $10 to my credit
card. No refund has been posted to my account yet. When I placed an order,
it only took 2 days to deduct money from my credit card account. It seems that
they are much quicker when taking money than returning it, (if they do).
We all make mistakes. When a company makes a mistake, they should acknowledge
it and correct the situation. Ignoring emails is not very good for customer
relations. Why provide a customer service email address, but not reply to emails?
When a customer purchases merchandise, they want to know exactly what they are
getting and how much it costs. I do not like doing business with companies
that will not reveal actual shipping costs before finalizing the order. One way
to protect oneself is to enter a statement in the remarks section such as,
"Cancel order if shipping exceeds $XX.xx amount."
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312575#312575
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linda Walker <l.p(at)talk21.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice requested. |
Bob.
Hope you can advise on the following:
My Long-EZ has Z-13 as the basis for it's electrics.
I had an issue yesterday of high over-voltage, 15.4 volts, while flying.
At the same time we had radio difficulties, mainly Tx.
Later I found that the "ess-buss alternative feed" switch was to "alternate
"!
On switching this back to "normal", returned everything as it should have b
een.
Question: will this time of overvoltage, perhaps 30 mins or more, have caus
ed any 'lasting' damage to any/all components of the electric system?
Any help much appreciated.
Patrick Elliott.
G-LGEZ
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice requested. |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Some devices will definitely have their lives shortened by excessive voltage.
Let's hope the high voltage does not cause expensive devices to fail prematurely.
There is nothing that you can do about the past. The important issue is
how to prevent a future high voltage event. What good is the alternate voltage
source if it can not be used without damaging the electrical system? The Aux
voltage regulator must not be doing its job. Either it is faulty or else it
is seeing a low voltage due to high resistance in the voltage-sense circuit or
ground connection. Also, consider installing over voltage protection.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312601#312601
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Bad Fuseblock? |
In reply to my post about a possibly bad fuse block, John replied,
"I had the same problem with a hot connection to my strobe switch.
Although
the fast-on connector felt tight on the tab when I pulled it, at the
advice
of a knowledgeable friend, I crimped the ears of the tab down so it was
even
tighter on the tab. It solved the problem. My next step, if that didn't
work, was to re crimp the connector onto the wire.
John Ciolino"
Thanks, John, I hadn't thought about the ears of the tab on the Fast-On
connector opening up. I still have the connector and I'll measure the
gap. It was am AMP PIDG connector, so I might be able to get the
correct gap from their website. If nothing else, I have a box of unused
ones I can compare it to.
Thanks,
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single shunt for two alternators? |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
> AFS recommends mounting the hall effect transducer on the cabin side of the
firewall and that means bringing the B-lead of one alternator through the firewal
Hi Roy,
FWIW, I'm also using an AFS 4500 in my Glasair and have a two alternator set up.
When I inquired at AFS about the HE sensor location, Rob told me that people
were mounting them in the engine compartment to avoid having the B leads come
into the cabin. I was shopping for other HE sensors at the time because the AFS
one wouldn't accomodate my two #4 AWG B leads. Two other brands, Tamura and
LEM both had the same operating temp limitation of 80 deg C (176 F). Above that
temp the accuracy falls off, which to my mind is not a big deal because it
still tells me what I want to know, i.e. that my alternator of choice is/isn't
producing power.
After checking with AFS re the non-OEM HE sensor and getting back a detailed testing
protocol to see if it would work, I decided to use AFS' HE sensor (on its
own tidy little PCB w/capacitors and 5' tefzel pigtail) and downsize my B leads
to fit in its hole, rather than risk frying my EFIS by rolling my own HE sensor.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312634#312634
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
Hi Joe,
I know you are a customer of mine, so let me start out by thanking you...but
also let me say that to be honest, Mouser isn't trying purposely to treat
you poorly (at least I don't think). While we are only a fraction of the
size of that company (and we use them regularly), I can assure you they are
better than many. Perhaps you're falling through the cracks there and
that's not good, but also realize that like 'lectric Bob said, that
represents only a smidgen of a fraction of their total customers. Truth be
told, no matter what they do (and us as well many times) you will never be
able to satisfy everyone. Using the heatshrink as an example, the day we
decide to "coil" it up for everyone I can guarantee you that I'd get a call
yelling about kinking up the tubing and conversely some people want it all
coiled up....it's sort of a no win situation.
Regarding shipping, it's near to impossible for either a computer or a
person like us to exactly know shipping to 100% at the time of the order.
FedEx & UPS's rate tables are living things that don't remain static all the
time. Sometimes when you have it delivered to different addresses, there
are unexpected surcharges, duties, taxes, etc.. What I'm trying to say is
that it's incredibly many times more complicated to do this than the average
person may think.
While I'm not defending Mouser entirely, I will say that we spend many
thousands of $$'s with Mouser, Newark, Digikey, Allied, Mcmaster, etc.. and
I've had about every "issue" that you can imagine. That being said, now
that I run a business that is microcosm of those companies I have become
infinitely more patient because I now understand the problems with
computers, couriers, shipping people, packaging, etc..
I don't have much more to add than to just say that things are not always
what they seem. I do agree that they should try harder to get your situation
resolved, we try to resolve such issues "immediately" without hesitation or
delay.
My 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:50 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mouser Packaging
It has been over a week since Milly at Mouser promised to refund $10 to my
credit card. No refund has been posted to my account yet. When I placed an
order, it only took 2 days to deduct money from my credit card account. It
seems that they are much quicker when taking money than returning it, (if
they do).
We all make mistakes. When a company makes a mistake, they should
acknowledge it and correct the situation. Ignoring emails is not very good
for customer relations. Why provide a customer service email address, but
not reply to emails?
When a customer purchases merchandise, they want to know exactly what they
are getting and how much it costs. I do not like doing business with
companies that will not reveal actual shipping costs before finalizing the
order. One way to protect oneself is to enter a statement in the remarks
section such as, "Cancel order if shipping exceeds $XX.xx amount."
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312575#312575
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single shunt for two alternators? |
At 01:40 PM 9/15/2010, you wrote:
Bob and Gang,
I'm building an RV-7A using with an Advanced Flight System (AFS)
Advanced Deck 4500s. The 4500s supports a single shunt and has the
option for a hall effect transducer to read the output of a second
alternator. AFS recommends mounting the hall effect transducer on the
cabin side of the firewall and that means bringing the B-lead of one
alternator through the firewall.
I'm basically using Z-12 with a Plane Power 60A alternator for my
primary alternator and a SD-20 for my aux alternator with a B&C
stand-by regulator. I'm not planning the current sensor for the B&C
stand-by regulator show on Z-12.
I'm considering using a single shunt that has both alternator outputs
connected to one side and the other side of the shunt connected to a
ANL60 which would connect to the starter contactor. I would turn on
the SD-20 to verify it was operational as part of preflight before
turning on the PP-60A alternator. Above idle, the two alternators
should not be delivering power at the same time. I think this would
allow me to monitor the output of both alternators AND allow me to
eliminate the cabin side hall effect transducer.
I'd like help understanding the downside to sharing a single shunt
that I may not be seeing.
You can put the sensor on the forward side of the firewall
and run BOTH b-leads through the single sensor. The display
will then read TOTAL output for the two but since the SD-20
only comes alive when the bus voltage depresses (main alternator
off line) then your instrumentation will only display one
alternator at a time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single shunt for two alternators? |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Connecting both alternators to the shunt is the same as connecting the alternators
in parallel. Both alternators should not be turned on at the same time.
If one of the alternators shorts out, the fuse will blow from excessive battery
current. Shunts have also been known to fail. Either one of these failure
modes will open the circuit to both alternators. Sharing components between
two circuits is like putting all of one's eggs in one basket.
Dynon has a good diagram of 3 possible ammeter shunt locations on page 3-12:
http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Install_Guides/FlightDEK-D180%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
Location "C" eliminates bringing the alternator B lead into the cockpit (for a
hall effect transducer) and will show current used by the aircraft except for
battery charging current or main contactor coil current.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312647#312647
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mouser Packaging |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Thanks for the reply Stein. I agree with everything you said. People make mistakes,
me included. I am not holding a grudge against Mouser. In the future,
I will specify in the remarks section how I want merchandise shipped, for instance,
in one box or coiled, etc.
If customers have a bad experience with a company, next time they will conduct
business with another company. Each employee is an ambassador for their company.
Their actions reflect on how their company is judged.
In the old days, a company could afford to lose one disgruntled customer. But
now with the internet, customers can share their experiences with others online.
It behooves a company to treat each customer with respect and integrity.
Now I need to finalize my order to Digi-key. LOL
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312653#312653
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi all,
I was re-reading the aeroelectric section on grounding the other day and
was left with a question. I am building an RV 8, rear mounted battery. I
have grounded the battery to a longeron locally. I plan to put a brass bolt
through the firewall, bring the engine ground strap to that and the forest
of tabs ground on the other side. I got to wondering if the electrical
connection of the firewall to the longeron is going to sufficiently ground
the battery. Has this been the standard arrangement for everyone with a rear
mounted, locally grounded battery?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad Fuseblock? |
| From: | Greg Green <gpgreen(at)gmail.com> |
Slightly off-topic from the hot connector, but it seemed like a good point
to ask whether anyone was aware of the revised NTSB Part 830 rules on
reporting. Dennis was not required to report as only 50% of his displays
went blank. Here is the relevant new rule:
Immediate notification: Notify the nearest NTSB field office when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed incidents occur:
......
(9) A complete loss of information, excluding flickering, from more than
50% of an aircraft=92s electronic instrumentation displays (PFD, etc.);
I haven't seen much discussion on this on the list, perhaps because it is s
o
new??? Effective Mar 10, 2010.
*Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 9:32 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Bad Fuseblock?
>
>
> Last week while flying my Lancair Legacy, one of my two "glass cockpit"
> screens went dark. The two screens are redundant, so continuing the
> flight was no problem. When I landed and back in the hangar, I replaced
the
> fuse, hoping for the cheap and easy fix. Surprisingly, it seemed to fix
the
> problem. Although the fuse I removed still looked good, the screen power
ed
> up normally with the new fuse. However, after about five minutes, I
> happened to touch the joint where the power wire connects to the fuse blo
ck
> and it was almost too hot to touch.
>
>
> I figured I had a bad crimp on the Fast-On connector that attaches to the
> tab on the fuse block. I cut it off and tested it with my VOM. But I
> couldn't find any problem with it. I soldered a new piece of wire to
> replace the part I cut off and crimped a new Fast-On connector. I guesse
d
> that the fuse for some reason hadn't formed a gas-tight connection and
> removed and replaced it a number of times to burnish off the corrosion.
I
> replaced the fuse and it now worked perfectly.
>
>
> The fuse block, the ATO fuse, and the Fast-On connector were all name
> brand. The connector was Amp PIDG. There was no heat damage visible on
the
> connector, which looked perfectly good. And tested perfectly good. The
> screen takes 2.0 amps at 14 volts and is fused at 5 amps. I have 350 hou
rs
> and 3.5 years flying time on the airplane.
>
>
> Anybody have a better hypotheses than the "internal corrosion between the
> tabs of the fuse and the fuse holder?" The fuse block is under the
> glareshield and protected from the elements.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dennis
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
> **
--
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Question |
At 03:54 PM 9/16/2010, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was re-reading the aeroelectric section on grounding the other day
>and was left with a question. I am building an RV 8, rear mounted
>battery. I have grounded the battery to a longeron locally. I plan
>to put a brass bolt through the firewall, bring the engine ground
>strap to that and the forest of tabs ground on the other side. I
>got to wondering if the electrical connection of the firewall to the
>longeron is going to sufficiently ground the battery. Has this been
>the standard arrangement for everyone with a rear mounted, locally
>grounded battery?
Yes, that's no problem . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_2.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Batteries/Battery_Install_OBrien_3.jpg
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single shunt for two alternators? |
>Bob and Gang,
>
>I'm building an RV-7A using with an Advanced Flight System (AFS)
>Advanced Deck 4500s. The 4500s supports a single shunt and has the
>option for a hall effect transducer to read the output of a second
>alternator. AFS recommends mounting the hall effect transducer on
>the cabin side of the firewall and that means bringing the B-lead of
>one alternator through the firewall.
My bad. I thought we were talking ONE current
measurement channel using a hall sensor. If
you can accommodate BOTH a shunt for
one alternator and a hall sensor for a second
alternator then there's no problem for
potential ambiguity of the display . . . I presume
each alternator has its own display.
The hall sensors generally live quite well
under the cowl. We do it all the time on the
TC aircraft. I can't imagine that AFS would
choose an extra-ordinarily fragile device.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C alt voltage goes right up to 16V |
| From: | "sblack" <scott-black(at)sympatico.ca> |
yep, you were right. Replaced it and no problems.
--------
Scott Black
Montreal
Jodel F11 O-200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312906#312906
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 9024 questions |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob,
I am another builder looking for your answer to this post about the 9024 device.
Eric Schlanser
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313056#313056
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 9024 questions |
At 11:03 AM 9/20/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
> I am another builder looking for your answer to this post about
> the 9024 device.
>Eric Schlanser
The family has experienced some "events" that have put
a wrench in the works. Most notably, a new granddaughter
arrived 2 months ahead of schedule under circumstances
life threatening to momma. Both are now doing as well as
anyone can expect but Baby Zoe is just under 4# and needs
a LOT of undivided attention.
Our plans to leave AeroElectric order fulfillment
and manufacturing with the kids in Wichita are
under adjustment. I'm leaving for Wichita in a few
minutes to pick up all the AEC activities and bring
them to Medicine Lodge. With all weight of these
tasks removed from their bucket, they'll be better
able to take care of more important things.
In the mean time, I'm not well informed on where
we are with a number of AEC issues. I'll know more
tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for your patience and understanding!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How hot does it get?? |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Now you can know!
http://www.hallcrest.com/subcatindust.cfm?cat_id=67&sublvl_id=5&subcat_id=6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313209#313209
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How hot does it get?? |
Jon,
Nice - I've used these on my engine so observers can monitor temps
during test runs. I'm am now having a bit of trouble reaching my head
out of the canopy to read them on the engine. From here on I'm sticking
to the thermo's. Now here's an idea, invent something like this that has
a wire to send the temp signal to a gauge on the panel. Best of both
worlds. Popular with the race car folks. Can also be found at
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com along with many other air-worthy parts.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jonlaury
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How hot does it get??
Now you can know!
http://www.hallcrest.com/subcatindust.cfm?cat_id=67&sublvl_id=5&subcat_i
d=6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313209#313209
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Potentiometer , 3 lugs |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
There are 3 solder lugs on a sliding trim pot that I'm using to drive my AFS flap
position indicator. Pins 1 & 2, through my multi-meter, indicate a 0-5K ohm
range, so I assume those are the power and ground pins.
What does pin 3 do? That must drive the indicator right? How do I check it with
the m-m?
Thanks,
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313215#313215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 9024 questions |
> :)
>I look forward to you having the time again to shepherd AEL, but in
>the mean time I'm happily grazing on the grass in front of me and
>wish you and your family the absolute best of medical outcomes.
Thanks to all for their concerns and best wishes. Actually,
since my consulting clientele are either comatose or
slipping fast, I may actually have more time to devote to
AEC manufacturing.
I must confess also that I've been spending a lot of time
writing a book on ideas and issues for another forum.
That activity will be launched on a dedicated website
in the not too distant future. I do not have enough content
gathered together to fuel the launch. I'll announce the
activation of our sister website probably within the next
couple months. There will be a companion list-server for
that activity as well. Individuals interested in this activity
can watch the front page of aeroelectric.com for the launch
announcement.
In the mean time, I've just about got all the AEC manufacturing
ops loaded into my van and I've got a two-hour drive to figure
out how and where I'm going to get it set up in M.L. My volume
and floor space suited to electronics is about 1/3rd of what
I had in Wichita!
On the other side of that coin, I have a really nice wood shop.
I've been fabricating cabinets and remodeling patches for a house
Dr. Dee has in Lindsborg where she teaches. Had a high-priority
distraction this morning . . . my 3-year old grandson is learning
how to do "grandpa's famous scrambled eggs."
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Bob-
Sorry to hear of the difficulties, and hope that it all works out well and
quickly.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | NPN & PNP pin ID |
Group=2C
I'm in the middle of building the circuit Bob N. designed for the IvoProp
current
limiter.
I've got most of the things soldered to my little board=2C and now I'm re
ady to start tying
everything together with the resistors. I've done some homework=2C and mad
e sure I
got the polarity squared away for my diodes=2C capacitor=2C and what-nots.
Here's the problem...the transistors!! I've looked up the NPN 2N3904 and
the PNP 2N3906
data sheets=2C and thought I had the 1=2C 2=2C 3-collector=2C base=2C emitt
er all figured out.
Then=2C just to make sure I was on the right track=2C I called up a diffe
rent 2N3904
data sheet.......and it was BACKWARDS from the first one I just looked at!!
!! Now I
don't know who's lies to believe!!
Can someone please be kind enough to steer me in the right direction for
the
CORRECT pin ID on the two resistors I listed.
Thanks=2C Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Hi,
What's the best way to mount 2 fat wires on a single terminal post on the battery
contactor? Do you just clock the lugs so they lay flat one on top of the other
or should a spacer (ie like a plain nut) be placed between the lugs in order
to physically separate the wires along the post? Or does it even matter?
Thanks!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313237#313237
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NPN & PNP pin ID |
Hi Mike,
A isometric picture is worth a 1001 words:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N3904.pdf
Regards,
/\/elson
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, Mike Welch wrote:
> Group,
>
> I'm in the middle of building the circuit Bob N. designed for the IvoProp current
> limiter.
>
> I've got most of the things soldered to my little board, and now I'm ready
to start tying
> everything together with the resistors. I've done some homework, and made sure
I
> got the polarity squared away for my diodes, capacitor, and what-nots.
>
> Here's the problem...the transistors!! I've looked up the NPN 2N3904 and the
PNP 2N3906
> data sheets, and thought I had the 1, 2, 3-collector, base, emitter all figured
out.
>
> Then, just to make sure I was on the right track, I called up a different 2N3904
> data sheet.......and it was BACKWARDS from the first one I just looked at!!!!
Now I
> don't know who's lies to believe!!
>
> Can someone please be kind enough to steer me in the right direction for the
> CORRECT pin ID on the two resistors I listed.
>
> Thanks, Mike Welch
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | NPN & PNP pin ID |
> A isometric picture is worth a 1001 words:
> Regards=2C
> /\/elson
/Velson=2C
Thanks for the link=2C but it was one of the two I was already looking at
.
I think I found the fly in the ointment=2C though!! After studying the s
econd 2N3904
diagram from "ON Semiconductor"=2C I see they use a different pin number de
signation. AH HA!!
They call Fairchild's pin#1=2C their pin#3=2C etc=2C etc.
Must be trying to confuse the weak-minded....:-)
In any event=2C I think I got it whipped! Thanks=2C Dave.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
Todd,
If it were me, and I wanted it to be functional, look good and be safe I
would find a terminal connector that would fit both wires. Crimp and
solder. That not moving. That setup will place less stress on the
terminal connector than having two ends doubled-up.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post?
Hi,
What's the best way to mount 2 fat wires on a single terminal post on
the battery contactor? Do you just clock the lugs so they lay flat one
on top of the other or should a spacer (ie like a plain nut) be placed
between the lugs in order to physically separate the wires along the
post? Or does it even matter?
Thanks!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313237#313237
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Hmmm. I could see doing that for say 18-20AWG size wires, but I'm talking about
a 2AWG and a 4AWG on the same post. Is doing that common for fat wires? I
could be mistaken, but I don't thinking combining them into a single lug is an
option.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313250#313250
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
Todd,
If you mean do they make a connector to fit 2 such wires, that would be
a yes. Whether that suits your installation setup...
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post?
Hmmm. I could see doing that for say 18-20AWG size wires, but I'm
talking about a 2AWG and a 4AWG on the same post. Is doing that common
for fat wires? I could be mistaken, but I don't thinking combining them
into a single lug is an option.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313250#313250
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks Glenn. You happen to a have a source? None of the usual aviation sources
carry anything like that so I'm guessing Mouser, Digikey, or similar? Also
does the connector have any special nomenclature that would help in narrowing
the search?
Thanks again!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleone Markwell" <cleone24(at)mchsi.com> |
Bob,
Hope you can work things worked out there and
so I will go ahead with my concerns abt the
AEC9024-30.
It will soon be getting cooler and I hope to fly
my Zenith Zodiac with the Wm. Wynne Corvair
engine before it gets cold.
Looking at Fig Z-9, I propose using this circuit but
the 9024 module isn't available. Looking at the
diagram I see that the diode across the contactor
coil is missing and I would assume that is in the
module. I can do that. Then I'm not sure what else
I need to do. I have tried some things on paper
but each time I find something that isn't working.
If you could suggest something for the missing
parts of the circuit I could proceed. I'm an old
Ham but not a design engineer.
Cleone24(at)mchsi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
AC 43.13-1B, chapter 11, page 11-76, has several sketches of lugs connected
to various bolts, studs, etc. Depictions of installation order of washers,
lock washers, lugs, etc. I didn't look for similar data on connections to
contactors but I'll bet the book has something to say about that.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 working on cowling
N808AF reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tsts4
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post?
Hi,
What's the best way to mount 2 fat wires on a single terminal post on the
battery contactor? Do you just clock the lugs so they lay flat one on top
of the other or should a spacer (ie like a plain nut) be placed between the
lugs in order to physically separate the wires along the post? Or does it
even matter?
Thanks!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313237#313237
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NPN & PNP pin ID |
There are, in fact, versions with different pin-outs. Not just a
different pin numbering scheme, but BCE connected to different physical
pin locations. I got bit by this once upon a time.
The only way to know exactly what you have is to know who made the part
(specific part number) and look at their data sheet.
You can do basic checking with your ohmmeter to easily find the base,
but you would need a transistor tester to ID the E vs C. Some
multi-meters have this capability built-in.
Dick Tasker
Mike Welch wrote:
> > A isometric picture is worth a 1001 words:
>
> > Regards,
> > /\/elson
>
> /Velson,
>
> Thanks for the link, but it was one of the two I was already looking at.
>
> I think I found the fly in the ointment, though!! After studying
> the second 2N3904
> diagram from "ON Semiconductor", I see they use a different pin number
> designation. AH HA!!
> They call Fairchild's pin#1, their pin#3, etc, etc.
> Must be trying to confuse the weak-minded....:-)
>
> In any event, I think I got it whipped! Thanks, Dave.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
I re-read Chapter 11 before my original post and didn't come away with a definitive
answer (except the max limit for terminating wires at a given terminal is
4). I think clocking the lugs so they don't interfere with one another with
a terminal boot over the lug on top is probably the I'm going to go unless this
is a violation of acceptable practices.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313287#313287
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | NPN & PNP pin ID |
> You can do basic checking with your ohmmeter to easily find the base=2C
> Dick Tasker
Dick=2C
You are right about checking each brand's data sheet=2C but I do think I'
ve got
them figured out properly=2C tho.
Just for kicks=2C I think I'll check them out with my multimeter. It doe
s have that
function.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
At 06:29 PM 9/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>I re-read Chapter 11 before my original post and didn't come away
>with a definitive answer (except the max limit for terminating wires
>at a given terminal is 4). I think clocking the lugs so they don't
>interfere with one another with a terminal boot over the lug on top
>is probably the I'm going to go unless this is a violation of
>acceptable practices.
Acceptable practices has more to do with mechanical
issues than anything else. First, can you stack all
the terminals on and STILL have full threads sticking
out the top of the nut? How stiff are your conductors?
22759-pry-bars or welding-wire-noodles? What style
contactors? Mil-spec 3/8? fine thread, indpendent
connection studs or Stancor-WH contactors with
5/16" coarse thread studs integral with the
contactor's stationary contacts?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NPN & PNP pin ID |
At 06:17 PM 9/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>There are, in fact, versions with different pin-outs. Not just a
>different pin numbering scheme, but BCE connected to different
>physical pin locations. I got bit by this once upon a time.
>
>The only way to know exactly what you have is to know who made the
>part (specific part number) and look at their data sheet.
>
>You can do basic checking with your ohmmeter to easily find the
>base, but you would need a transistor tester to ID the E vs C. Some
>multi-meters have this capability built-in.
Hmmmm . . . we used many thousands of 2N3904/06 devices
in products I designed 40 years ago and I don't
think I ever got a problem-flag raised by production
stating that a batch of devices wouldn't fit the board
layout.
If you look at the Fairchild package drawing at:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/analog/pdf/to92_dim.pdf
you'll note that it gives 3 pinout configurations for
both bipolar devices like the 3904 and field effect
transistors. Note also that three different BiP-Fet
pairs are labeled TO-92, TO-94 and TO-96. If you
were dealing with some house-numbered device and
trying to sort out interchangeability with any another
device, yes, you might find some pin-out differences
between two otherwise identical looking devices. But the
2N series numbers are JEDEC (Joint Electronic Devices
Council) numbers. To build a REAL 2N3904 it had better
be in a TO-92 configuration package to pass muster
with folks who make a living at tracking such things.
If you have electro-whizzies in hand marked 2N3904
then it's a pretty good bet that the pinouts conform
with the bi-polar column of the TO-92 column in the
above data sheet. Looking at the flat side with
leads down they run left to right EBC
That's the way my drawer full of 3904/3906 devices
are configured too.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer , 3 lugs |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
jonlaury,
Depending on how the pot is made, chances are that the two outside terminals are
the ones that the supply voltage is applied to. When checked with an ohm meter,
the resistance (5K) of these two terminals should not change as the slider
is moved.
The resistance of the center terminal varies with the slider as measured to either
of the other two terminals. This terminal that varies (probably #2) is the
signal terminal that will indicate the flap position.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313344#313344
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Bob,
The contactor is a B&C S701-1, the 2AWG is welding wire, but the 4AWG wire is stiff
22579.
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313354#313354
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
Group=2C
As I said yesterday=2C I was beginning building the circuit Bob designed
for the IvoProp
current limit. As I consumed my small bags of electronic parts=2C it becam
e clear I did
not have the IRFP3703 transistor. I had ordered all the other parts from M
ouser=2C and
evidently they didn't carry the 3703=2C so I expected to get it from Digi-k
ey.
At any rate=2C I ordered the IRFP3703 transistor yesterday from Digi-key.
Their check-out
asks for you to check your method of preferred shipping. Not knowing the d
ifference=2C I
figured "how can you go wrong with UPS Ground"?
Last night=2C I got a UPS tracking number=2C and a "Your order has shippe
d notice"=2C plus
the specific shipping charge Digi-key charged me for the single transistor.
Imagine my
surprise to see the shipping was $10.59!! For one transistor....$10.59!!!
Here's the email they sent me=3B
Thank you for your order! Digi-Key has processed and shipped salesorder
#28092xxx=2C invoice #32706xxx=2C to you. Your CUSTOMER NUMBER is 5714xxx.
Your total cost is $14.67 in U.S. currency=2C including $10.59 postage.
We have billed this to your Visa credit card.
$14.67 for one transistor.
I just got off the phone with their customer service rep=2C AND her supervi
sor. Basically=2C they
said "tough luck!!" They offered NOTHING for a remedy.
From now=2C I don't care who I order from=2C I want to know the ENTIRE BI
LL before I say send it!!
Screwed by Digi-key=2C
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
At 08:41 AM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>Group,
>
> As I said yesterday, I was beginning building the circuit Bob
> designed for the IvoProp
>current limit. As I consumed my small bags of electronic parts, it
>became clear I did
>not have the IRFP3703 transistor. I had ordered all the other parts
>from Mouser, and
>evidently they didn't carry the 3703, so I expected to get it from Digi-key.
>
> At any rate, I ordered the IRFP3703 transistor yesterday from
> Digi-key. Their check-out
>asks for you to check your method of preferred shipping. Not
>knowing the difference, I
>figured "how can you go wrong with UPS Ground"?
UPS ground is a very un-economcial way to have small
packages shipped. There's a minimum charge irrespective
of package size. Digikey also offers first class
mail where your itty-bitty parts are put in an envelope
at per/oz rates.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
At 07:59 AM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>The contactor is a B&C S701-1, the 2AWG is welding wire, but the
>4AWG wire is stiff 22579.
Okay, two terminals are fine. If the wires
need to come off the terminal in the same
direction, twist one conductor so that the
back sides of the terminal flags face each
other. No washers or extra nuts. Put the
wire lugs onto the terminal post and then
a brass nut.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Wickert" <jimw_btg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
Hi Mike
Know the feeling, but with Digikey they do have the shipping calculator for
you when you process your order..Just click on shipping..I usually select
first class mail but if there is weight I use the Priority Mail 3-5 days
arrives generally in 3 days.
Shipping Cost Estimator
International/Canadian Shipping Costs
<http://ordering.digikey.com/Help.aspx?id=International%20Shipping%20Informa
tion%20Help%20Page>
Approximate shipping charges based on Zip/Postal Code: 53083
Description
8 oz.
1 lb.
5 lbs.
10 lbs.
COD Charge
UPS Ground (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$7.60
$7.60
$9.19
$9.91
$10.00
UPS 3-Day Delivery (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$10.42
$10.42
$13.58
$18.29
$10.00
UPS 2nd Day Air (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$14.17
$14.17
$17.32
$24.23
$10.00
UPS Overnight (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$36.32
$36.32
$52.47
$70.56
$10.00
U.S. Postal Service First Class Mail* (order by 6:00 PM CT)
$2.41
Not Available
Not Available
Not Available
Not Available
U.S. Postal Service Priority Mail* (3-5 Day Delivery to most US
addresses)(order by 6:00 PM CT)
$4.95
$4.95
$8.87
$14.20
Not Available
U.S. Postal Service Express Mail* (1-2 Day delivery guarantee)(order by 3:00
PM CT)
$19.35
$24.70
$39.30
$56.65
Not Available
Federal Express Ground (order by 7:00 PM CT)
$7.60
$7.60
$9.19
$9.91
Not Available
Federal Express Saver (3-Day Delivery) (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$13.04
$13.04
$15.08
$21.18
Not Available
Federal Express Economy (2nd Day Air) (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$14.92
$14.92
$18.29
$25.62
Not Available
Federal Express Overnight P.M. Delivery (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$34.87
$34.87
$50.39
$67.72
Not Available
Federal Express Overnight A.M. Delivery (order by 8:00 PM CT)
$38.94
$38.94
$56.38
$75.91
Not Available
Digi-Key charges shipping fees based on the actual and/or dimensional weight
of the package, ship method and published carriage rates.
Exact shipping fees are unknown until the order has been processed.
* U.S. Postal Service Saturday Delivery at no additional charge.
Jim Wickert
Tel 920-467-0219
Cell 920-912-1014
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 8:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
Group,
As I said yesterday, I was beginning building the circuit Bob designed for
the IvoProp
current limit. As I consumed my small bags of electronic parts, it became
clear I did
not have the IRFP3703 transistor. I had ordered all the other parts from
Mouser, and
evidently they didn't carry the 3703, so I expected to get it from Digi-key.
At any rate, I ordered the IRFP3703 transistor yesterday from Digi-key.
Their check-out
asks for you to check your method of preferred shipping. Not knowing the
difference, I
figured "how can you go wrong with UPS Ground"?
Last night, I got a UPS tracking number, and a "Your order has shipped
notice", plus
the specific shipping charge Digi-key charged me for the single transistor.
Imagine my
surprise to see the shipping was $10.59!! For one transistor....$10.59!!!
Here's the email they sent me;
Thank you for your order! Digi-Key has processed and shipped salesorder
#28092xxx, invoice #32706xxx, to you. Your CUSTOMER NUMBER is 5714xxx.
Your total cost is $14.67 in U.S. currency, including $10.59 postage.
We have billed this to your Visa credit card.
$14.67 for one transistor.
I just got off the phone with their customer service rep, AND her
supervisor. Basically, they
said "tough luck!!" They offered NOTHING for a remedy.
From now, I don't care who I order from, I want to know the ENTIRE BILL
before I say send it!!
Screwed by Digi-key,
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
On 9/22/2010 7:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> UPS ground is a very un-economcial way to have small
> packages shipped. There's a minimum charge irrespective
> of package size. Digikey also offers first class
> mail where your itty-bitty parts are put in an envelope
> at per/oz rates.
>
>
> Bob . . .
One more tip:
Watch out for hazardous materials. A $1.99 tube of torque seal cannot be
shipped by mail.
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
Join the club That's just doing mail order business most likely was a
minimum order charge Check with a local Ham and find out where he/she gets their
parts
Just my $0.02 worth
Dick
#606/N20DG
In a message dated 9/22/2010 8:47:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com writes:
Group,
As I said yesterday, I was beginning building the circuit Bob designed for
the IvoProp
current limit. As I consumed my small bags of electronic parts, it became
clear I did
not have the IRFP3703 transistor. I had ordered all the other parts from
Mouser, and
evidently they didn't carry the 3703, so I expected to get it from
Digi-key.
At any rate, I ordered the IRFP3703 transistor yesterday from Digi-key.
Their check-out
asks for you to check your method of preferred shipping. Not knowing the
difference, I
figured "how can you go wrong with UPS Ground"?
Last night, I got a UPS tracking number, and a "Your order has shipped
notice", plus
the specific shipping charge Digi-key charged me for the single
transistor. Imagine my
surprise to see the shipping was $10.59!! For one transistor....$10.59!!!
Here's the email they sent me;
Thank you for your order! Digi-Key has processed and shipped salesorder
#28092xxx, invoice #32706xxx, to you. Your CUSTOMER NUMBER is 5714xxx.
Your total cost is $14.67 in U.S. currency, including $10.59 postage.
We have billed this to your Visa credit card.
$14.67 for one transistor.
I just got off the phone with their customer service rep, AND her
supervisor. Basically, they
said "tough luck!!" They offered NOTHING for a remedy.
>From now, I don't care who I order from, I want to know the ENTIRE BILL
before I say send it!!
Screwed by Digi-key,
Mike Welch
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2 Fat Wires on a single terminal post? |
| From: | "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks Bob!
--------
Todd Stovall
728TT (reserved)
RV-10 Empacone, Wings, Fuse
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313382#313382
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
Mike
I'm sorry to disagree with you, bit you were not screwed by Digi-key, you
were screwed by UPS.
Carlos
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Welch
Sent: quarta-feira, 22 de Setembro de 2010 14:41
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
Group,
As I said yesterday, I was beginning building the circuit Bob designed for
the IvoProp
current limit. As I consumed my small bags of electronic parts, it became
clear I did
not have the IRFP3703 transistor. I had ordered all the other parts from
Mouser, and
evidently they didn't carry the 3703, so I expected to get it from Digi-key.
At any rate, I ordered the IRFP3703 transistor yesterday from Digi-key.
Their check-out
asks for you to check your method of preferred shipping. Not knowing the
difference, I
figured "how can you go wrong with UPS Ground"?
Last night, I got a UPS tracking number, and a "Your order has shipped
notice", plus
the specific shipping charge Digi-key charged me for the single transistor.
Imagine my
surprise to see the shipping was $10.59!! For one transistor....$10.59!!!
Here's the email they sent me;
Thank you for your order! Digi-Key has processed and shipped salesorder
#28092xxx, invoice #32706xxx, to you. Your CUSTOMER NUMBER is 5714xxx.
Your total cost is $14.67 in U.S. currency, including $10.59 postage.
We have billed this to your Visa credit card.
$14.67 for one transistor.
I just got off the phone with their customer service rep, AND her
supervisor. Basically, they
said "tough luck!!" They offered NOTHING for a remedy.
From now, I don't care who I order from, I want to know the ENTIRE BILL
before I say send it!!
Screwed by Digi-key,
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
At 04:35 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>Mike
>
>I'm sorry to disagree with you, bit you were not screwed by
>Digi-key, you were screwed by UPS.
>
>Carlos
Gently, gently. I don't think anyone got screwed. There
are certain fixed costs with moving a package of any size
from point A to point B. It takes just as much computer,
paper, nearly as much labor, and certainly resources
to move a 1 oz box as a 100 oz box.
When we started the 'Connection 24+ years ago, priority
mail ($2.90) for the single product (the book) was a pretty
good buy. Nowadays, we have a variety of products with
plans to have all products offer "free shipping". Well,
we ALL know there's no such thing . . . but it seems
to be be the wave of the future. I just came home from
the post office having shipped 2 books priority overseas,
6-7 books media mail, a couple of CD's and some OV modules
in padded envelopes as first class.
In every case, the least expensive method for my location
(no UPS counter but a post office a few blocks away) was
selected for each shipment. Sometimes, a customer's order
goes out in TWO envelopes, one medial mail and one first
class.
At the same time, I get the occasional request for UPS or
nothing . . . UPS stops at their door but their PO box
is 15 miles away, and I CAN get on the computer and have
UPS pick up a box from my front porch. But it takes about
10 minutes longer to process a UPS Shipment and the packing
materials are more robust. I don't charge extra for that
but it is a pain in the arse.
Bottom line is that there are usually options that can
be selected to meet your needs for service, speed and
price. Obviously, we've learned that UPS is not a good
choice of carriers for a single 0.6 ounce transistor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Quillin <rjquillin(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
At 07:56 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>It's usually the cheapest, and the coolest
>thing is it's the ONLY usually to get FREE saturday delivery.
>That extra delivery day a week (that we may not have forever)
>has saved me tons of headaches.
Also for when you need a Saturday delivery, check into FedEx HOME delivery.
While not as economical as USPS, they do have Saturday delivery
-without- additional charges.
Ron Q.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
Carlos=2C
When it comes to the checkout=2C a buyer has a choice of picking whicheve
r shipper and method he
wants. Not knowing any better=2C I chose UPS. I didn't realize the advant
ages Bob refers to.
Digi-key offers no advice on the issue=2C they just charge you whatever t
heir rates are for the shipper
you choose.
The customer service lady said if I would have chosen USPO first class=2C
it would have been $2.00=2C
not the $10.59. Again=2C IF I knew=2C I would have done that. Live and le
arn. Digi-key does NOT pre-warn
it's customers=2C they just charge you=2C and let you learn the hard way...
.period!! They are=2C however=2C NO
different from any other vendor. None of them give a crap about how much m
oney it costs you.
Mike Welch
Date: Wed=2C 22 Sep 2010 17:22:20 -0500
From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
At 04:35 PM 9/22/2010=2C you wrote:
Mike
I=92m sorry to disagree with you=2C bit you were not screwed by Digi-key=2C
you were screwed by UPS.
Carlos
Gently=2C gently. I don't think anyone got screwed. There
are certain fixed costs with moving a package of any size
from point A to point B. It takes just as much computer=2C
paper=2C nearly as much labor=2C and certainly resources
to move a 1 oz box as a 100 oz box.
When we started the 'Connection 24+ years ago=2C priority
mail ($2.90) for the single product (the book) was a pretty
good buy. Nowadays=2C we have a variety of products with
plans to have all products offer "free shipping". Well=2C
we ALL know there's no such thing . . . but it seems
to be be the wave of the future. I just came home from
the post office having shipped 2 books priority overseas=2C
6-7 books media mail=2C a couple of CD's and some OV modules
in padded envelopes as first class.
In every case=2C the least expensive method for my location
(no UPS counter but a post office a few blocks away) was
selected for each shipment. Sometimes=2C a customer's order
goes out in TWO envelopes=2C one medial mail and one first
class.
At the same time=2C I get the occasional request for UPS or
nothing . . . UPS stops at their door but their PO box
is 15 miles away=2C and I CAN get on the computer and have
UPS pick up a box from my front porch. But it takes about
10 minutes longer to process a UPS Shipment and the packing
materials are more robust. I don't charge extra for that
but it is a pain in the arse.
Bottom line is that there are usually options that can
be selected to meet your needs for service=2C speed and
price. Obviously=2C we've learned that UPS is not a good
choice of carriers for a single 0.6 ounce transistor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
Actually, that is not quite correct. Digikey has a shipping cost
estimator right above the line where you choose the method. Click on it
and enter your postal code and it lists estimated shipping costs for all
the methods available.
In fact, they have a shipping cost estimator right on the first page
when you see what you have added to your shopping cart that works the
same way. So you had two opportunities to see what the various methods
might cost..
And good vendors do care. They just have no idea why you might want to
choose a particular method so all they can do is what Digikey does - let
you see what the costs are likely to be and let you choose the method.
Dick Tasker
Mike Welch wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> When it comes to the checkout, a buyer has a choice of picking
> whichever shipper and method he
> wants. Not knowing any better, I chose UPS. I didn't realize the
> advantages Bob refers to.
>
> Digi-key offers no advice on the issue, they just charge you
> whatever their rates are for the shipper
> you choose.
>
> The customer service lady said if I would have chosen USPO first
> class, it would have been $2.00,
> not the $10.59. Again, IF I knew, I would have done that. Live and
> learn. Digi-key does NOT pre-warn
> it's customers, they just charge you, and let you learn the hard
> way....period!! They are, however, NO
> different from any other vendor. None of them give a crap about how
> much money it costs you.
>
> Mike Welch
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:22:20 -0500
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
>
> At 04:35 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
> Mike
>
> Im sorry to disagree with you, bit you were not screwed by
> Digi-key, you were screwed by UPS.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> Gently, gently. I don't think anyone got screwed. There
> are certain fixed costs with moving a package of any size
> from point A to point B. It takes just as much computer,
> paper, nearly as much labor, and certainly resources
> to move a 1 oz box as a 100 oz box.
>
> When we started the 'Connection 24+ years ago, priority
> mail ($2.90) for the single product (the book) was a pretty
> good buy. Nowadays, we have a variety of products with
> plans to have all products offer "free shipping". Well,
> we ALL know there's no such thing . . . but it seems
> to be be the wave of the future. I just came home from
> the post office having shipped 2 books priority overseas,
> 6-7 books media mail, a couple of CD's and some OV modules
> in padded envelopes as first class.
>
> In every case, the least expensive method for my location
> (no UPS counter but a post office a few blocks away) was
> selected for each shipment. Sometimes, a customer's order
> goes out in TWO envelopes, one medial mail and one first
> class.
>
> At the same time, I get the occasional request for UPS or
> nothing . . . UPS stops at their door but their PO box
> is 15 miles away, and I CAN get on the computer and have
> UPS pick up a box from my front porch. But it takes about
> 10 minutes longer to process a UPS Shipment and the packing
> materials are more robust. I don't charge extra for that
> but it is a pain in the arse.
>
> Bottom line is that there are usually options that can
> be selected to meet your needs for service, speed and
> price. Obviously, we've learned that UPS is not a good
> choice of carriers for a single 0.6 ounce transistor.
>
> Bob . . .
> *
>
> -List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grosseair <grosseair(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
They say they deliver on Saturday, but my experience is that they don't
actually do it, and sometimes they don't even deliver during the week
when they promise. I won't use them anymore.
John Grosse
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 22, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Ron Quillin wrote:
> At 07:56 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>> It's usually the cheapest, and the coolest
>> thing is it's the ONLY usually to get FREE saturday delivery.
>> That extra delivery day a week (that we may not have forever)
>> has saved me tons of headaches.
>
> Also for when you need a Saturday delivery, check into FedEx HOME
delivery.
> While not as economical as USPS, they do have Saturday delivery
-without- additional charges.
>
> Ron Q.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Z-17 OVPM Question |
| From: | "corton(at)charter.net" <corton(at)charter.net> |
Hi, All;
I'm trying to adapt wiring diagram Z-17 for my Sonex, which has a 20A permanent
magnet alternator.
I purchased the B&C OVPM kit, which includes the yellow ALT / OV warning lamp.
My question is: is there a way to connect the warning light someplace? I cannot
connect it to the NC post of the alternator cutout relay because the common post
is connected directly to the battery. I *could* connect the common post to
the switched side of the batt/alt master switch, but then I'd have a 12ga wire
coming in to the panel to the switch, then going back out to the firewall. The
charging circuit would then come from the alternator, thru the relay, to the
master switch, then back to the battery.
I'd like to minimize the 12ga runs; I'm also concerned about running alternator
output thru the master switch.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks!
Carl
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313448#313448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley <harley(at)agelesswings.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
I have to respectfully disagree with you, John. I've used
Fedex ground and Fedex Home regularly for my model plans from my
website as well as other items I've sold on eBay. I also specify
it when I order online, if it is offered. In most cases it costs
less and is faster than the post office...even if using parcel
post (which can take a week to deliver).
I have had many Fedex Saturday deliveries both to me and to my
customers.
A couple of good recent examples.
I live in western New York, near Rochester. When my sister flies
here from Chicago, her husband ships her luggage so as not to not
have to pay the checked bag charge, and I return it that way when
she leaves. The last time she was here, two weeks ago, her plane
left Wednesday afternoon, and I dropped her bag off at the local
Fedex (formerly Kinkos) later that evening. It was delivered at
her home in Park Forest Saturday morning. Her 52+ pound bag cost
$22.55 to ship from Henrietta to Park Forest. It would have cost
her $75 to check it ($25 checked bag fee, and $50 over 50 pounds
fee)
2nd example...Monday evening this week I ordered a tool from
McMaster-Carr (a tubing bender) and specified it ship by Fedex
Ground. When I first logged on to my computer Wednesday morning,
I received the email from McMaster-Carr (which had been sent the
night before after I had shutdown for the night) with the
tracking number. On checking the tracking on the Fedex website,
it said that it had been delivered! I immediately went to my
front door, and met the Fedex driver just as he was coming up the
driveway! The two pound package was shipped for $4.62 and took
less than two days to get here. Since my normal postal delivery
isn't until after 2 PM, Fedex was faster and lower cost than the
post office for anything except media mail, which, of course, a
tubing bender doesn't qualify for.
These examples are not unique, in over 10 years of using Fedex,
they have never disappointed me. I only use the post office for
packages less than 13 ounces, as that can be shipped first class
which is usually a lower cost.
Harley Dixon
www.agelesswings.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 9/22/2010 9:40 PM, Grosseair wrote:
> They say they deliver on Saturday, but my experience is that
> they don't actually do it, and sometimes they don't even
> deliver during the week when they promise. I won't use them
> anymore.
> John Grosse
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 22, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Ron Quillin > wrote:
>
>> At 07:56 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>>> It's usually the cheapest, and the coolest
>>> thing is it's the ONLY usually to get FREE saturday delivery.
>>> That extra delivery day a week (that we may not have forever)
>>> has saved me tons of headaches.
>>
>> Also for when you need a Saturday delivery, check into FedEx
>> *HOME* delivery.
>> While not as economical as USPS, they do have Saturday
>> delivery *-without-* additional charges.
>>
>> Ron Q.
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grosseair <grosseair(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
I guess it depends on your area. I'm glad it works for you.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 23, 2010, at 7:33 AM, Harley wrote:
> I have to respectfully disagree with you, John. I've used Fedex
ground and Fedex Home regularly for my model plans from my website as
well as other items I've sold on eBay. I also specify it when I order
online, if it is offered. In most cases it costs less and is faster than
the post office...even if using parcel post (which can take a week to
deliver).
>
> I have had many Fedex Saturday deliveries both to me and to my
customers.
>
> A couple of good recent examples.
>
> I live in western New York, near Rochester. When my sister flies here
from Chicago, her husband ships her luggage so as not to not have to pay
the checked bag charge, and I return it that way when she leaves. The
last time she was here, two weeks ago, her plane left Wednesday
afternoon, and I dropped her bag off at the local Fedex (formerly
Kinkos) later that evening. It was delivered at her home in Park Forest
Saturday morning. Her 52+ pound bag cost $22.55 to ship from Henrietta
to Park Forest. It would have cost her $75 to check it ($25 checked bag
fee, and $50 over 50 pounds fee)
>
> 2nd example...Monday evening this week I ordered a tool from
McMaster-Carr (a tubing bender) and specified it ship by Fedex Ground.
When I first logged on to my computer Wednesday morning, I received the
email from McMaster-Carr (which had been sent the night before after I
had shutdown for the night) with the tracking number. On checking the
tracking on the Fedex website, it said that it had been delivered! I
immediately went to my front door, and met the Fedex driver just as he
was coming up the driveway! The two pound package was shipped for $4.62
and took less than two days to get here. Since my normal postal
delivery isn't until after 2 PM, Fedex was faster and lower cost than
the post office for anything except media mail, which, of course, a
tubing bender doesn't qualify for.
>
> These examples are not unique, in over 10 years of using Fedex, they
have never disappointed me. I only use the post office for packages less
than 13 ounces, as that can be shipped first class which is usually a
lower cost.
>
> Harley Dixon
> www.agelesswings.com
>
> On 9/22/2010 9:40 PM, Grosseair wrote:
>>
>> They say they deliver on Saturday, but my experience is that they
don't actually do it, and sometimes they don't even deliver during the
week when they promise. I won't use them anymore.
>> John Grosse
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Sep 22, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Ron Quillin wrote:
>>
>>> At 07:56 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>>>> It's usually the cheapest, and the coolest
>>>> thing is it's the ONLY usually to get FREE saturday delivery.
>>>> That extra delivery day a week (that we may not have forever)
>>>> has saved me tons of headaches.
>>>
>>> Also for when you need a Saturday delivery, check into FedEx HOME
delivery.
>>> While not as economical as USPS, they do have Saturday delivery
-without- additional charges.
>>>
>>> Ron Q.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
>
>
> The customer service lady said if I would have chosen USPO first
> class, it would have been $2.00,
>not the $10.59. Again, IF I knew, I would have done that. Live and learn.
Real education is always expensive. Look at
the $time$ expended in colleges and universities
every year . . . with a retention rate on the
order of a few percent. I find that he most useful
knowledge comes to us in small "lessons" that enjoy
virtually 100% retention. This lesson cost you about
$8. Having shared it with 1800 other folks offers
a potential for a great return on investment. I had
a $65 event last night that was combined with 4
hours of pounding the asphalt. I'm not going to forget
THAT lesson either.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-17 OVPM Question |
At 09:46 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi, All;
>
>I'm trying to adapt wiring diagram Z-17 for my Sonex, which has a
>20A permanent magnet alternator.
>
>I purchased the B&C OVPM kit, which includes the yellow ALT / OV warning lamp.
The primary interpretation for that light is
"ALTERNATOR OFF". I could be off because you
had an OV event . . . or it could be OFF because
you didn't turn it ON. For a PM alternator that
size, suggest you leave it out.
Now, you SHOULD have some form of active notification
of LOW voltage. See Figure Z-20.
>My question is: is there a way to connect the warning light
>someplace? I cannot connect it to the NC post of the alternator
>cutout relay because the common post is connected directly to the
>battery. I *could* connect the common post to the switched side of
>the batt/alt master switch, but then I'd have a 12ga wire coming in
>to the panel to the switch, then going back out to the firewall. The
>charging circuit would then come from the alternator, thru the
>relay, to the master switch, then back to the battery.
Not recommended.
>I'd like to minimize the 12ga runs; I'm also concerned about running
>alternator output thru the master switch.
With a 20A alternator, you COULD consider tossing
of 0.8A of alternator output to keep a battery
contactor closed. Alternatively, consider a
ROBUST on-on-on switch like a
http://www.newark.com/honeywell-s-c/2nt1-10/toggle-switch/dp/19C1911
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
Question,
I just bought the VTACHGEN transducer from Van's. It comes with nothing
but a plastic bag. Does anyone know what the pulses/rev value are for
this item when used on a 4 cylinder engine? I need to setup my Dynon 180
to accept.
Thanks,
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
Also, UPS will not pay for damages they do to your items. The still owe
me nearly $12,000 for ceramic tile that made it here all the way from
Spain to Alabama. We took possession and shipped it forward to a new
home we were building near Phoenix. Half of the shipment didn't make it
in one piece. All we got from UPS was the telephone shuffle and
complete runaround. I hate UPS Others tell the exact same story of UPS
not honoring their shipment guarantees/insurance. They can go to
blazes, I hope. I don't use them if I have any other choice and
sometimes will not order the product at all if the vendor uses only UPS.
David M.
Mike Welch wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> When it comes to the checkout, a buyer has a choice of picking
> whichever shipper and method he
> wants. Not knowing any better, I chose UPS. I didn't realize the
> advantages Bob refers to.
>
> Digi-key offers no advice on the issue, they just charge you
> whatever their rates are for the shipper
> you choose.
>
> The customer service lady said if I would have chosen USPO first
> class, it would have been $2.00,
> not the $10.59. Again, IF I knew, I would have done that. Live and
> learn. Digi-key does NOT pre-warn
> it's customers, they just charge you, and let you learn the hard
> way....period!! They are, however, NO
> different from any other vendor. None of them give a crap about how
> much money it costs you.
>
> Mike Welch
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:22:20 -0500
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
>
> At 04:35 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
> Mike
>
> Im sorry to disagree with you, bit you were not screwed by
> Digi-key, you were screwed by UPS.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> Gently, gently. I don't think anyone got screwed. There
> are certain fixed costs with moving a package of any size
> from point A to point B. It takes just as much computer,
> paper, nearly as much labor, and certainly resources
> to move a 1 oz box as a 100 oz box.
>
> When we started the 'Connection 24+ years ago, priority
> mail ($2.90) for the single product (the book) was a pretty
> good buy. Nowadays, we have a variety of products with
> plans to have all products offer "free shipping". Well,
> we ALL know there's no such thing . . . but it seems
> to be be the wave of the future. I just came home from
> the post office having shipped 2 books priority overseas,
> 6-7 books media mail, a couple of CD's and some OV modules
> in padded envelopes as first class.
>
> In every case, the least expensive method for my location
> (no UPS counter but a post office a few blocks away) was
> selected for each shipment. Sometimes, a customer's order
> goes out in TWO envelopes, one medial mail and one first
> class.
>
> At the same time, I get the occasional request for UPS or
> nothing . . . UPS stops at their door but their PO box
> is 15 miles away, and I CAN get on the computer and have
> UPS pick up a box from my front porch. But it takes about
> 10 minutes longer to process a UPS Shipment and the packing
> materials are more robust. I don't charge extra for that
> but it is a pain in the arse.
>
> Bottom line is that there are usually options that can
> be selected to meet your needs for service, speed and
> price. Obviously, we've learned that UPS is not a good
> choice of carriers for a single 0.6 ounce transistor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation and to Soros!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer , 3 lugs |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Thanks Joe,
My slide pot has pins 1,2,3 at one end and 1,2 at the other. I got joy when I connected
pins 1 at one end and 2 at the other. The 5K range was displayed on my
meter when I moved the slider. I assumed 1&2 to be the pos/neg pins. Assuming
that pin 3 was the signal pin, I put the meter between 1& 3 and got nothing
and my brain hit the wall because of my assumption that 1&2 were the pos/neg pins..
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313504#313504
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Digi-key shipping charges |
Unfortunately this has become an all too common scene in the US. Instead
of improving, customer service everywhere is falling apart. There are
actually very few companies left in the US that understand what customer
service means. From what I've seen a growing population, smaller profits
and lost patience is mostly to blame.
UPS is just like an insurance company, their goal in life is collecting
fees and not paying claims. They've mastered cheating the paying
customer in a freight business that is already cut-throat. That's ok, if
they crash a few more airplanes, they'll get their due.
It will cost you more and require more legwork, but if you want it done
right, move the big stuff yourself. The other option is to use a
dedicated freight service. That means your load is their only objective
from start to finish. I've moved cars and other big things like this and
have done well. If you don't have the bosses and the drivers cell
number, you don't have control. That 12k loss in tile could have been
protected by paying $1200 in trucking.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
Also, UPS will not pay for damages they do to your items. The still owe
me nearly $12,000 for ceramic tile that made it here all the way from
Spain to Alabama. We took possession and shipped it forward to a new
home we were building near Phoenix. Half of the shipment didn't make it
in one piece. All we got from UPS was the telephone shuffle and
complete runaround. I hate UPS Others tell the exact same story of UPS
not honoring their shipment guarantees/insurance. They can go to
blazes, I hope. I don't use them if I have any other choice and
sometimes will not order the product at all if the vendor uses only UPS.
David M.
Mike Welch wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> When it comes to the checkout, a buyer has a choice of picking
> whichever shipper and method he
> wants. Not knowing any better, I chose UPS. I didn't realize the
> advantages Bob refers to.
>
> Digi-key offers no advice on the issue, they just charge you
> whatever their rates are for the shipper
> you choose.
>
> The customer service lady said if I would have chosen USPO first
> class, it would have been $2.00,
> not the $10.59. Again, IF I knew, I would have done that. Live and
> learn. Digi-key does NOT pre-warn
> it's customers, they just charge you, and let you learn the hard
> way....period!! They are, however, NO
> different from any other vendor. None of them give a crap about how
> much money it costs you.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:22:20 -0500
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> From: nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Digi-key shipping charges
>
> At 04:35 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
> Mike
>
> I'm sorry to disagree with you, bit you were not screwed by
> Digi-key, you were screwed by UPS.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> Gently, gently. I don't think anyone got screwed. There
> are certain fixed costs with moving a package of any size
> from point A to point B. It takes just as much computer,
> paper, nearly as much labor, and certainly resources
> to move a 1 oz box as a 100 oz box.
>
> When we started the 'Connection 24+ years ago, priority
> mail ($2.90) for the single product (the book) was a pretty
> good buy. Nowadays, we have a variety of products with
> plans to have all products offer "free shipping". Well,
> we ALL know there's no such thing . . . but it seems
> to be be the wave of the future. I just came home from
> the post office having shipped 2 books priority overseas,
> 6-7 books media mail, a couple of CD's and some OV modules
> in padded envelopes as first class.
>
> In every case, the least expensive method for my location
> (no UPS counter but a post office a few blocks away) was
> selected for each shipment. Sometimes, a customer's order
> goes out in TWO envelopes, one medial mail and one first
> class.
>
> At the same time, I get the occasional request for UPS or
> nothing . . . UPS stops at their door but their PO box
> is 15 miles away, and I CAN get on the computer and have
> UPS pick up a box from my front porch. But it takes about
> 10 minutes longer to process a UPS Shipment and the packing
> materials are more robust. I don't charge extra for that
> but it is a pain in the arse.
>
> Bottom line is that there are usually options that can
> be selected to meet your needs for service, speed and
> price. Obviously, we've learned that UPS is not a good
> choice of carriers for a single 0.6 ounce transistor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation and to Soros!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
At 11:14 AM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>Also, UPS will not pay for damages they do to your items. The still
>owe me nearly $12,000 for ceramic tile that made it here all the way
>from Spain to Alabama. We took possession and shipped it forward to
>a new home we were building near Phoenix. Half of the shipment
>didn't make it in one piece. All we got from UPS was the telephone
>shuffle and complete runaround. I hate UPS Others tell the exact
>same story of UPS not honoring their shipment
>guarantees/insurance. They can go to blazes, I hope. I don't use
>them if I have any other choice and sometimes will not order the
>product at all if the vendor uses only UPS.
Did the shipper purchase the insurance? That IS an
option that must be exercised on the shipper's data
entry screen. It's been a long time but I can recall
at least two instances where my claims for shipping
damage of over $1000 were honored after their rep
checked over the packaging. Ceramic tile is NOT easy
to handle. It has a fragility-to-weight ratio that
severely challenges a shipper's packaging talents.
I opened a box of tile last week where one piece in
the middle of the stack was broken in three pieces.
Like all things hard, brittle, thin and large area,
the variables for fragility are huge. Stacking thin
sheets that are not also VERY flat is problematic.
Had a new shower door in my rental house explode
last week for no good reason at all. The renter had
been away for a week and when he came home, it was
in itty-bitty pieces all over the floor. Clearly a
manufacturing defect in a very thin, highly stressed,
brittle sheet.
I don't dispute your experience. Without knowing root cause of
the failures along with the shipper's skills (or lack
thereof) to manufacture, pack AND purchase insurance,
any assertion that, "UPS will not pay for damages they
do to your items" needs more support.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Potentiometer , 3 lugs |
At 12:09 PM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
Thanks Joe,
My slide pot has pins 1,2,3 at one end and 1,2 at the other. I got
joy when I connected pins 1 at one end and 2 at the other. The 5K
range was displayed on my meter when I moved the slider. I assumed
1&2 to be the pos/neg pins. Assuming that pin 3 was the signal pin, I
put the meter between 1& 3 and got nothing and my brain hit the wall
because of my assumption that 1&2 were the pos/neg pins..
Pin numbers or other markings not withstanding, the
functionality of slide pots yields readily to
inspection.
For example, in this device:
Emacs!
. . . I would have guessed that "2" and "2" on each end
are connected internally to each end of the wiper's
slip-track. 1 and 3 would be the ends of the pot's resistance
element. I suspect that an ohmmeter inspection of your device
will show that all pins of like number are connected to each
other. The cluster of 1,2,3 at one end is conducive to hooking
the pot up with a twisted trio or some such. So it's
probably unimportant which "1" or "3" you connect to, functionality
will not be affected. Either 1 or 3 can be (+) or (-) and
that will be determined by whether or not the indicator reads
in the right direction. Installation instructions for use
of this pot SHOULD be explicit in this regard. But if not,
then be prepared to reverse 1 and 3 connections if the
operation is 'backwards'.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
At 10:14 AM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
>
>Question,
>
>I just bought the VTACHGEN transducer from Van's. It comes with nothing
>but a plastic bag. Does anyone know what the pulses/rev value are for
>this item when used on a 4 cylinder engine? I need to setup my Dynon 180
>to accept.
Excellent question! It's unfortunate that Van's
does not appear to publish the installation/data
manuals for various products on their website.
It's almost an imperative these days that if one
wishes to reduce the expense of printing, inventory,
shipping and customer service issues for documents,
you post them.
We stopped shipping any paperwork with our products
some years ago . . . but since they're ALWAYS ordered
from our website, you can get the manual BEFORE you
buy just to make sure it's something you WANT to by.
When you DO buy it, you're already educated as to its
function and installation.
You may have to call the factory. You might make
the constructive suggestion that scanning and
posting of all paperwork associated with their
inventory would save EVERYBODY a lot of time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
Of course we had insurance for stuff that cost us so much money. We
left it in the original boxes and remember: the boxes made it all the
way from Spain to the local store without any damage (that we could hear
and we even opened a couple boxes to be sure.)
David
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 11:14 AM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Also, UPS will not pay for damages they do to your items. The still
>> owe me nearly $12,000 for ceramic tile that made it here all the way
>> from Spain to Alabama. We took possession and shipped it forward to
>> a new home we were building near Phoenix. Half of the shipment
>> didn't make it in one piece. All we got from UPS was the telephone
>> shuffle and complete runaround. I hate UPS Others tell the exact
>> same story of UPS not honoring their shipment guarantees/insurance.
>> They can go to blazes, I hope. I don't use them if I have any other
>> choice and sometimes will not order the product at all if the vendor
>> uses only UPS.
>
> Did the shipper purchase the insurance? That IS an
> option that must be exercised on the shipper's data
> entry screen. It's been a long time but I can recall
> at least two instances where my claims for shipping
> damage of over $1000 were honored after their rep
> checked over the packaging. Ceramic tile is NOT easy
> to handle. It has a fragility-to-weight ratio that
> severely challenges a shipper's packaging talents.
>
> I opened a box of tile last week where one piece in
> the middle of the stack was broken in three pieces.
> Like all things hard, brittle, thin and large area,
> the variables for fragility are huge. Stacking thin
> sheets that are not also VERY flat is problematic.
> Had a new shower door in my rental house explode
> last week for no good reason at all. The renter had
> been away for a week and when he came home, it was
> in itty-bitty pieces all over the floor. Clearly a
> manufacturing defect in a very thin, highly stressed,
> brittle sheet.
>
> I don't dispute your experience. Without knowing root cause of
> the failures along with the shipper's skills (or lack
> thereof) to manufacture, pack AND purchase insurance,
> any assertion that, "UPS will not pay for damages they
> do to your items" needs more support.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David <ainut(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
Also, what other "support" do you propose? All the relevant info is in
my original post. Btw, the tile was a beautiful white with pale blue
cameo pictures on each piece. Can't find that anywhere anymore.
David
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> At 11:14 AM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
>>
>> Also, UPS will not pay for damages they do to your items. The still
>> owe me nearly $12,000 for ceramic tile that made it here all the way
>> from Spain to Alabama. We took possession and shipped it forward to
>> a new home we were building near Phoenix. Half of the shipment
>> didn't make it in one piece. All we got from UPS was the telephone
>> shuffle and complete runaround. I hate UPS Others tell the exact
>> same story of UPS not honoring their shipment guarantees/insurance.
>> They can go to blazes, I hope. I don't use them if I have any other
>> choice and sometimes will not order the product at all if the vendor
>> uses only UPS.
>
> Did the shipper purchase the insurance? That IS an
> option that must be exercised on the shipper's data
> entry screen. It's been a long time but I can recall
> at least two instances where my claims for shipping
> damage of over $1000 were honored after their rep
> checked over the packaging. Ceramic tile is NOT easy
> to handle. It has a fragility-to-weight ratio that
> severely challenges a shipper's packaging talents.
>
> I opened a box of tile last week where one piece in
> the middle of the stack was broken in three pieces.
> Like all things hard, brittle, thin and large area,
> the variables for fragility are huge. Stacking thin
> sheets that are not also VERY flat is problematic.
> Had a new shower door in my rental house explode
> last week for no good reason at all. The renter had
> been away for a week and when he came home, it was
> in itty-bitty pieces all over the floor. Clearly a
> manufacturing defect in a very thin, highly stressed,
> brittle sheet.
>
> I don't dispute your experience. Without knowing root cause of
> the failures along with the shipper's skills (or lack
> thereof) to manufacture, pack AND purchase insurance,
> any assertion that, "UPS will not pay for damages they
> do to your items" needs more support.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid
of Soros.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digi-key shipping charges |
At 02:09 PM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
Also, what other "support" do you propose? All the relevant info is
in my original post. Btw, the tile was a beautiful white with pale
blue cameo pictures on each piece. Can't find that anywhere anymore.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to run your blood pressure
up. But please keep in mind that what we hope to
do here is give 1800 other folks the benefit of
our experience for not having to re-invent any wheels
or suffer lost $time$ repeating an experiment we already
know fails.
Many of us, your's truly included, depend heavily
on a host of transportation services. I live 80 miles
from anywhere significant in terms of big-box stores,
specialty parts suppliers, etc. I'm sure that many
of our fellow airplane builders are in the same situation.
We are fortunate in this country to have so many
suppliers of useful goods who team with transportation
companies each offering a host of services that can be
tailored to our needs and budget.
The sum total of all packages that make it successfully
from point A to point B in this country every day is a staggering
number. At the same time, there are no doubt thousands
of packages that suffer accidents of packaging, handling,
or natural hazard. That's what insurance is all about.
Out of those thousands of unhappy experiences, there
are no doubt some folks like yourself with the occasional
tale of distress to tell.
But suppose we took the sum total of one month's unhappy
experiences with EVERY common carrier and posted them
to a website along with a recommendation that, "you never
put your valuables at risk with this bunch of clowns." No doubt
the number of incidences would scare the socks of just about
everybody. Okay, now what? Hire your own pack mule and go
get the stuff yourself?
I was a bit surprised at the incident with your tile
shipment for two reasons. I used to have an uncle in
Denver who ran a crew of masons and a business specializing
in exotic stone and tile. He brought a truckload of
tile per week up from Mexico. He soon discovered that he
needed to use his own trucks and handlers designed and
trained to the extra-ordinary task of getting tile from
point A to point B. Not so for bricks and limestone.
I was also surprised that UPS didn't raise their eyebrows
at a shipment insured for $12,000. I've only shipped a few
items for that kind of value and believe me, the guys on
the dock wanted to know exactly what it was. They inspected
the packing and cordoned of my packaging on the dock
so as to offer special handling. They put high-value stickers
on my crates to alert handlers. I used to package accident
scene models up for shipment to court insured for $20,000.
It was usually two, 4 x 4 x 2 foot crates made of plywood.
The local UPS and FedX managers came out to our shop and
inquired into our construction and packaging methods before
he would sign off. That amount of insurance got us extra
attention all along the route. That was as much for their
benefit/protection as my own.
We cannot know the circumstances that befell your shipment.
Indeed, the fact that it made it 90% of the way to destination
in good shape only to be trashed in the last 10% is curious. But
consider this. Suppose you had an identical shipment being
handed to you for a 1000 mile trip by road. How would YOU
go about trashing that shipment in the same manner without
opening the packaging? Drop them all from a forklift? Could
you do that without telltale marks on the outside? Given
the extent of the damage for all cartons, do you know that
a vehicle carrying the shipment didn't have an accident? Knowing
what you know right now, would you package a similar shipment
differently for handing off to any other carrier? Is it your
understanding and assertion that all carriers OTHER than UPS
would have had no problem with your package? In other words,
UPS went out of their way to trash the contents.
You're working three separate issues here. The mechanics of
getting similar products transported, a business model
for selecting the right transportation product and dealing
with mishap. Obviously the stars lined up badly for you on this
incident. But the solution is understanding and fine tuning
of recipes for success. This is never accomplished by
blacklisting UPS or any other company. This is especially
true if our interests are focused on airplane parts and not
art objects. Finally, according to common carrier law, once
the shipping company takes your boxes on which your purchased
insurance, they own them. I would suggest that your misery
comes more from some combination of employees that should
have been fired as opposed to company policy of UPS.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pin confirmation |
Bob=2C Group=2C
My IRFP3703 MOSFET arrived today. In doing a little research on it=2C th
e best I can tell is
the pins are 1=2C2 & 3=2C from left to right=2C if the MOSFET is facing you
and the pins are down=2C
and you can read the product information.
If we assume the pins are as described above=2C can someone confirm which
pin is which?
>From I could find out=2C it looks like the pin #3 is the source=2C pin #2 t
he gate=2C and pin #1 the drain.
But=2C I am not sure at all.
Thanks=2C Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pin confirmation |
>From I could find out=2C it looks like the pin #3 is the source=2C pin #2
the gate=2C and pin #1 the drain.
>But=2C I am not sure at all.
>Thanks=2C Mike WelchGroup=2C From what it appears=2C from the TO247AC des
cription (the MOSFET's case)=2Cit looks like pin #1 is the gate=2C pin #2 i
s the drain=2C and pin #3 is the source=2Cnot the way I described them abov
e.Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pin confirmation |
Correct: see
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfp3703.pdf page 8
Remember that the metal tab is also connected to the drain so be careful
how you mount it
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:26 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: pin confirmation
>From I could find out, it looks like the pin #3 is the source, pin #2
the gate, and pin #1 the drain.
>But, I am not sure at all.
>Thanks, Mike Welch
Group, From what it appears, from the TO247AC description (the MOSFET's
case),it looks like pin #1 is the gate, pin #2 is the drain, and pin #3
is the source,not the way I described them above.Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Dalman <jdalmansr(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Wiring is red +12v. Black to ground
and white is the signal wire. Whatever device you hook it to is where you make
the settings which in the case of the Grand Rapids EIS has the settings in it's
manual. The settings with the EIS are for 4 Cycle or 2 cycle.
Then when you start the engine look at the tach and see if the rpm looks right.
It if doesn't will will probably be off by a factor of two. Check the display
device's manual to see how to correct that.
I have the device in my RV-8 and it only took a minute to set up in the EIS
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pin confirmation |
Peter=2C
Thanks for the reply. I have looked at that data sheet probably 10 times
=2C but I couldn't
seem to locate where it says what the pin assignment is. But=2C I just saw
at the very bottom=2C
in the right corner of the last page=2C where it lists the pin assignments.
Thanks=2C Mike
From what it appears=2C from the TO247AC description (the MOSFET's case)
=2Cit looks like pin #1 is the gate=2C pin #2 is the drain=2C and pin #3 is
the source=2CMike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pin confirmation |
At 06:20 PM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
Bob, Group,
My IRFP3703 MOSFET arrived today. In doing a little research on
it, the best I can tell is
the pins are 1,2 & 3, from left to right, if the MOSFET is facing you
and the pins are down,
and you can read the product information.
If we assume the pins are as described above, can someone confirm
which pin is which?
From I could find out, it looks like the pin #3 is the source, pin
#2 the gate, and pin #1 the drain.
But, I am not sure at all.
Don't need to assume anything. Here's a view I captured from
the data sheet.
Emacs!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pin confirmation |
Thanks Bob!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Radio Shack 3 row 15 pin d-Sub |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi group
I need to find a connector that will fit into the stick of my Europa. It ends up
the 9 pin connector I was using doesn't work too well since it became obvious
I need 10 pins.
Radio Shack sells a 15 pin what they call D-Sub connector with 3 rows and is the
same size as the 9 pin D-sub that Bob depicts for use as a connector for Ray
Allen pitch servos.
This is a solder pot bent sheet metal connector, but the pins are smaller in size
compared to normal D-sub pins as I am familiar with.
The package has them rated for 5 amps for 1 minute at 600v AC.
The highest current carrying in the connector will be by the pitch servo.
I want to mutilate the connector like Bob depicts for pitch servo so it will fit
in stick, then wrap it with silicone tape to keep it together.
Anyone see anything wrong with using this connector for this purpose?
BTW #26 wire goes to the male connector from the stick switches, and the female
connector is connected to two #22 5 conductor Tefzel cables. The #22 wires fit
the solder pots, but #20 wire may not.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313615#313615
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
Thanks - yeah, nothing hard about it at all. So, what's the setting? You
can't tell me this is a guessing game? Ok, I've got 10 fingers to go.
The point is this should be published somewhere. Sure, I guessed black
was ground and red was power. Got that part down quickly.
Seems like all the Van's folks use the EIS 4k, I'm using the Dynon 180
which is similar but different.
Glenn E. Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Dalman
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12
Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Wiring is red +12v. Black to
ground and white is the signal wire. Whatever device you hook it to is
where you make the settings which in the case of the Grand Rapids EIS
has the settings in it's manual. The settings with the EIS are for 4
Cycle or 2 cycle.
Then when you start the engine look at the tach and see if the rpm looks
right. It if doesn't will will probably be off by a factor of two. Check
the display device's manual to see how to correct that.
I have the device in my RV-8 and it only took a minute to set up in the
EIS
Sent from my iPad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack 3 row 15 pin d-Sub |
Radio Shack sells a 15 pin what they call D-Sub connector with 3 rows
and is the same size as the 9 pin D-sub that Bob depicts for use as a
connector for Ray Allen pitch servos.
with.
Yes, this is the "high density" version of the D-sub series connectors.
They are becoming increasingly popular in GA radio designs.
Garmin uses them a lot. The connector you're looking at is
the same one used to bring VGA video out the back of
your computer for the monitor.
The package has them rated for 5 amps for 1 minute at 600v AC.
The highest current carrying in the connector will be by the pitch servo.
I want to mutilate the connector like Bob depicts for pitch servo so
it will fit in stick, then wrap it with silicone tape to keep it together.
Anyone see anything wrong with using this connector for this purpose?
Why does it need to be inside the stick?
Could you bring a pendant cable out of the
stick to some convenient location where you
can use a 25-pin connector with crimped pins?
BTW #26 wire goes to the male connector from the stick switches, and
the female connector is connected to two #22 5 conductor Tefzel
cables. The #22 wires fit the solder pots, but #20 wire may not.
No, they won't. The HD series is limited to 22AWG
or smaller.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
Seems like all the Van's folks use the EIS 4k, I'm using the Dynon 180
which is similar but different.
What you're needing is the SCALE FACTOR for the transducer
in pulses per revolution of the engine crankshaft. No doubt
the setup instructions for the Dynon will tell you what
calibration code or dip-switch setting to use for that
particular transducer scale factor.
Unless someone on the list has installed that combination
of hardware items or incidental access to those two values
you're going to have to do some legwork. Does the
transducer have a brand and part number on it?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack 3 row 15 pin d-Sub |
| From: | "rparigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Hi Bob
Thx. for the reply.
It seems you are insinuation to not use this 15 pin connector.
What is your reasons to not use this high density 15 pin connector?
"Why does it need to be inside the stick?
Could you bring a pendant cable out of the
stick to some convenient location where you
can use a 25-pin connector with crimped pins?"
By having a connector inside the stick it would make for easy servicing of the
switches "when" they get hurt.
The current routing of wires doesn't easily allow install of a D-sub. If you have
a good reason to not use the high density 15 pin, I could arrange things where
i could remove the stick to service switches.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313661#313661
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack 3 row 15 pin d-Sub |
>The current routing of wires doesn't easily allow install of a
>D-sub. If you have a good reason to not use the high density 15 pin,
>I could arrange things where i could remove the stick to service switches.
Give it a try. They're not "evil" . . . just
challenging. I don't fiddle with the solder
version of these connectors . . . like I don't
hand-solder 0805 surface mount parts either.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Van's support might offer some advice on the Pulse/RPM output of the VTACHGEN, which depends on the engine and gear ratio. You probably have the FlightDEK-D180 Installation Guide and have read the tach section on page 6-8. http://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/Install_Guides/FlightDEK-D180%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
Without VTACHGEN documentation, the easiest solution might be to set the D-180
parameters by trial and error. The pulses/RPM ratio is most likely a whole number
multiple of the actual RPM like Bubblehead said. After setting up the D-180
to a reasonable RPM display, the RPM could be verified using a portable optical
tachometer if desired.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313691#313691
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Troubleshooting a Rotax generator |
| From: | "txpilot" <txpilot(at)consolidated.net> |
I have a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912ULS. My electrical system is based on the
"Z-16" system diagram.
I'm getting set for my first flight when I noticed a generator failure. I've double-checked
all of my wiring and verified no fuselinks have been blown. The
alternator OV Disconnect relay is functioning fine. It seems it's down to a
bad generator or a bad rectifier-regulator.
I'm wondering what's the best way to proceed with the troubleshooting. Could I
connect a voltmeter to the generator cables and check for proper voltage? What
would I expect for a functioning generator? (the installation manual indicates
250W AC output at full power). Any other suggestions on how to troubleshoot
without replacing the generator?
Thanks for any help.
Dan Ginty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313726#313726
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting a Rotax generator |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Dan, See the Rotax Heavy Maintenance Manual, Section 74-00-00, 3.7, page 16.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 5:21 PM, txpilot wrote:
> txpilot(at)consolidated.net>
>
> I have a Zenith CH-701 with a Rotax 912ULS. My electrical system is based
> on the "Z-16" system diagram.
>
> I'm getting set for my first flight when I noticed a generator failure.
> I've double-checked all of my wiring and verified no fuselinks have been
> blown. The alternator OV Disconnect relay is functioning fine. It seems
> it's down to a bad generator or a bad rectifier-regulator.
>
> I'm wondering what's the best way to proceed with the troubleshooting.
> Could I connect a voltmeter to the generator cables and check for proper
> voltage? What would I expect for a functioning generator? (the
> installation manual indicates 250W AC output at full power). Any other
> suggestions on how to troubleshoot without replacing the generator?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Dan Ginty
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313726#313726
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Troubleshooting a Rotax generator |
| From: | "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com> |
Dan,
How did you notice a generator failure? Was the low voltage warning light on?
Did you verify low voltage with a voltmeter? The low-voltage warning light could
be lying.
My Rotax Heavy Maintenance Manual gives the resistance of the generator windings
on page 64. With the master switch on and the engine off, remove the connector
from the voltage regulator and check the resistance of the two generator
yellow wires to ground. There should be infinite resistance to ground. Then
measure the resistance between the two yellow generator wires. It should be less
than one ohm. If more than one ohm, the relay contacts or generator winding
is open.
If the resistance checks are normal, chances are that the generator is OK. You
could also do an operational check. With the voltage regulator connector still
unplugged, connect a voltmeter and a high wattage lamp to the two yellow generator
wires and start the engine. The lamp should get brighter and the voltage
should go up with RPM.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313775#313775
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gem Sensor Optical Switch wiring |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
The diagram for wiring this switch to an inductive load (relay coil) doesn't compute
for me. Can someone explain why there's two voltage sources shown?
The optical switch (40ma) in my fuel line is being used to drive a pump relay
(coil @ 36ma)
Thanks,
J
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313800#313800
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gem Sensor Optical Switch wiring |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
Forgot the attachment. Here it is.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313803#313803
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/els_900_wiring_144.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gem Sensor Optical Switch wiring |
I would guess that they show the two sources because one is labeled 5 or
12 VDC (to power the sensor) and the other is unlabeled. If you have
the 12V version of the sensor, just connect the "+" of both supplies
together. Basically take the top schematic showing a resistor load and
substitute the relay and diode from the lower schematic for the resistor
and you have it.
Dick Tasker
jonlaury wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jonlaury"
>
> The diagram for wiring this switch to an inductive load (relay coil) doesn't
compute for me. Can someone explain why there's two voltage sources shown?
>
> The optical switch (40ma) in my fuel line is being used to drive a pump relay
(coil @ 36ma)
>
> Thanks,
> J
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313800#313800
>
>
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gem Sensor Optical Switch wiring |
| From: | Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> |
Hmm. Can I express my dislike for ambiguous datasheets here? Ok, now that that's
done..
It may be expressing the fact that the blue wire, the optical receiver, does not
care too much what its excitation voltage is. That is, even if you have a 5v
or 12v part number, the voltage that drives the blue wire can be a wide range
of values as long as it doesn't exceed 40mA if Blue is shorted to ground, as
it will be when the sensor is triggered.
The datasheet warns you not to connect the Blue wire to voltage without a limiting
load (some sort of resistor, whether it's a relay coil (as in the figure 'Relay
Output'), or the pull-up resistor R (as in 'CMOS/TTL Output'), but as long
as you do that, you can use either the 5/12v source or some other voltage source.
For your case, it sounds like a configuration like the figure 'External Load' might
be the right way to do it, as long as there is a suppression diode in the
coil.
This advice isn't authoritative, since I've never worked with a sensor exactly
like this before, but just a guess (hopefully a good one) based on experience.
--Daniel
On Sep 26, 2010, at 5:13 PM, jonlaury wrote:
>
> Forgot the attachment. Here it is.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313803#313803
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/els_900_wiring_144.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
Bob,
I got their website from Van's, http://www.instrumentsales.com/ Vans
could not give me any additional documentation. The website is rather
limited. The way the Dynon doc reads is simply to set the pulses/revs to
your particular equipment. I talked to Dynon and they admitted that this
combination has been used before (and recommended because they don't
sell an RPM transducer) but they do not document or support it directly.
Yup, looks like a little experimenting is in order. I'll post my
findings to Van's and the list as to make life a bit easier for others
in the future.
Thanks
Glenn
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12
Seems like all the Van's folks use the EIS 4k, I'm using the Dynon 180
which is similar but different.
What you're needing is the SCALE FACTOR for the transducer
in pulses per revolution of the engine crankshaft. No doubt
the setup instructions for the Dynon will tell you what
calibration code or dip-switch setting to use for that
particular transducer scale factor.
Unless someone on the list has installed that combination
of hardware items or incidental access to those two values
you're going to have to do some legwork. Does the
transducer have a brand and part number on it?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> |
| Subject: | db connector hold-down screws |
Greetings...
I remember seeing an article on how to fabricate hold-down screws for db connectors
installed with no shells, but now can't locate it. I know it's not exactly rocket
science,
but would like to re-read the article. I'm pretty sure it was aeroelectric list
related...
Thanks!
--
Regards, J.
Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jabiru 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
restoring the Johnston Special
http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
I went to a general store, but they wouldn't let me buy
anything specific.
--- Steven Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: db connector hold-down screws |
| From: | thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> |
*I had a problem with the DB9 on my Lightspeed ignition coming loose. A
Lancair builder put me on to these screws
AN500-AD4-7*
which I ordered from aircraft spruce. They are drilled fillister head
screws and were perfect for the task.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:56 AM, j. davis wrote:
>
> Greetings...
>
> I remember seeing an article on how to fabricate hold-down screws for db
> connectors
> installed with no shells, but now can't locate it. I know it's not exactly
> rocket science, but would like to re-read the article. I'm pretty sure it
> was aeroelectric list related...
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--
Tom Sargent
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: db connector hold-down screws |
| From: | James Kilford <james(at)etravel.org> |
J, Bob posted some alternatives here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/DIY_Jackscrews.jpg
Hopefully that's what you were after.
James
On 27 September 2010 18:56, j. davis wrote:
>
> Greetings...
>
> I remember seeing an article on how to fabricate hold-down screws for db
> connectors
> installed with no shells, but now can't locate it. I know it's not exactly
> rocket science, but would like to re-read the article. I'm pretty sure it
> was aeroelectric list related...
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jabiru 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> restoring the Johnston Special
> http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. | (computer science) |
> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
> I went to a general store, but they wouldn't let me buy
> anything specific.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pitot pressure switch |
| From: | "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com> |
Does anyone know a source for a pressure switch I can put in the pitot/static system.
I'd like to disable the flaps-down function if the airspeed is above some
reasonable value. I can find electronic sensors, but I'd like to eliminate
any electronics for simplicity.
Thanks,
-Tom
--------
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313929#313929
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot pressure switch |
At 06:37 PM 9/27/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>Does anyone know a source for a pressure switch I can put in the
>pitot/static system. I'd like to disable the flaps-down function if
>the airspeed is above some reasonable value. I can find electronic
>sensors, but I'd like to eliminate any electronics for simplicity.
Take a look at these.
http://www.omega.com/Pressure/pdf/PSW21_PSW22.pdf
They're available directly from Omega.
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=PSW21_PSW22&nav=preh02
There's some on ebay right now . . .
http://tinyurl.com/3yww3qx
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot pressure switch |
Hi Tom
Is this what you are looking for:
http://www.tcwtech.com/usw-1.HTM
Regards
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "tomcostanza" <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:37 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pitot pressure switch
>
>
> Does anyone know a source for a pressure switch I can put in the
> pitot/static system. I'd like to disable the flaps-down function if the
> airspeed is above some reasonable value. I can find electronic sensors,
> but I'd like to eliminate any electronics for simplicity.
>
> Thanks,
> -Tom
>
> --------
> Clear Skies,
> Tom Costanza
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313929#313929
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans RPM Transducer IE VTACHGEN 12 |
| From: | "Bubblehead" <jdalmansr(at)gmail.com> |
The answer may show up here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=471022#post471022
--------
John Dalman
Keller, TX
RV-8 N247TD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313974#313974
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ciolino" <johnciolino(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pitot pressure switch |
Check www.aircraftextras.com. They have the switch you need.
John Ciolino
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tomcostanza
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pitot pressure switch
September 03, 2010 - September 28, 2010
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-js