AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-lm
November 14, 2012 - December 12, 2012
>> >>
>> >> Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one
>> >> example of many.
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh
>> >>
>> >> It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the
>> >> surface and one of these pens will last you for
>> >> years as long as you don't leave the cap off.
>> >>
>> >> You will find that the smallest surface mount
>> >> joints can be made with no solder added to
>> >> a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23
>> >> like devices.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bob . . .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>>
>> target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ldersbooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> " target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> -
>> ric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectr
ic-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to wire strobe power supply to switch, power, & |
gnd
| From: | "plevyakh" <hplevyak(at)mac.com> |
Folks,
I dug through the archives and couldn't find an answer....so here goes.
I'm wiring a Glastar with composite fuselage. My strobe power supply model "HDACF"
is in the tail cone. My strobe flash units are in the wing tips. The wings
are all aluminum.
The Whelen kit came with 18AWG shielded twisted pair for Pos and Neg hook up of
the power supply.
I need a little help with how to run this shielded twisted pair forward to my switch,
the Power Bus, and ground bus.
What's the correct way to do this? Do I split the wire and just run one up to
the switch and the other up to ground bus, and then run a separate unshielded
wire back to the Power bus from the switch?
I will ground the shield of the 18AWG twisted pair at the strobe power supply box
mounting lug.
Thanks for any guidance,
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak(at)mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387926#387926
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The hardware side |
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I would like
to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the physical side of
aircraft wiring. Is there a legacy standard for how wiring is bundled, routed,
secured and just generally mounted etc.?
Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mounting etc.,
you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a pretty good
job on my last project but I always wondered hmmm . . . should this bundle be
handled this way or that?
Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want to firm
up my full understanding.
Thanks,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387954#387954
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VDO temp resistive gauge problem |
| From: | "peterthomson" <peterlthomson(at)gmail.com> |
hi List
have a VDO gauge and sender 10-180 Ohms for oil temp.
It has gone to full scale reading, and will not respond to either earthing or higher
ohms at the input. The sender is working OK.
I'm assuming the gauge has gone u/s ?
Peter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387955#387955
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
LOL
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
I have been searching the archives for days and just short of reading every post
I cant seem to find what I was looking for, drats! Some time ago I recall a
post from someone that Bob had answered with a link to a product that he found
on Ebay, now that I really need it, can I find that link? Grrrrrr. LOL
Someone had drawn a simple and rudimentary schematic and it goes something like
this, 110 AC from a house circuit then to a control box (having a senior moment
and cant for the life of me think of what this box is called) that routes a
charging/maintaining current to a battery(s) and also provided 12V DC to an external
device, then if the AC was removed the box would automatically provide
power from the battery to the 12V circuit. I remember that it was a hardwired
device and not just a simple plug this into that type of set up.
OK, this is one of those moments where you try and try to think of some ones name
that you know well but just cant get it out. As soon as Bob chimes in a says
oh yeah, it was a X control box and here is the link it will all come rushing
back and I will be embarrassed once again because it is so simple. I hate embarrassing
myself but oh well. LOL
Thanks for putting up with me wasting your time this morning.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387956#387956
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
Straight from the gray matter of Bob himself...
*The Aeroelectric Connection*
*
*
*
*
Chris Stone
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:17 AM, checkn6 wrote:
>
> Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I
> would like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the
> physical side of aircraft wiring. Is there a legacy standard for how
> wiring is bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?
>
> Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mountin
g
> etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a
> pretty good job on my last project but I always wondered =9Chmmm .
. . should
> this bundle be handled this way or that?=9D
>
> Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want t
o
> firm up my full understanding.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387954#387954
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
Chris...
National Aeronautics and
Space Administration
CRIMPING,
INTERCONNECTING CABLES,
HARNESSES, AND WIRING
NASA-STD-8739.4 with Change 3
February 1998
A google search... Or provide an email and I will send you the .PDF
chris
>
> Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I
> would like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the
> physical side of aircraft wiring. Is there a legacy standard for how
> wiring is bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?
>
> Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mountin
g
> etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a
> pretty good job on my last project but I always wondered =9Chmmm .
. . should
> this bundle be handled this way or that?=9D
>
> Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want t
o
> firm up my full understanding.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387954#387954
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
Here's one of the best sources:
www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/021/021c99.pdf
Thx, Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: checkn6
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:17 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: The hardware side
Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I would
like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the physical
side of aircraft wiring. Is there a legacy standard for how wiring is
bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?
Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mounting
etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a pretty
good job on my last project but I always wondered hmmm . . . should this
bundle be handled this way or that?
Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want to
firm up my full understanding.
Thanks,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387954#387954
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
Then there is always Chapter 11 of AC 43.13-1B that is available free here:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2043.13-1B/$FILE/Chapter%2011.pdf
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387973#387973
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that |
happens! LOL
>110 AC from a house circuit then to a control
>box (having a senior moment and cant for the
>life of me think of what this box is called)
>that routes a charging/maintaining current to a
>battery(s) and also provided 12V DC to an
>external device, then if the AC was removed the
>box would automatically provide power from the
>battery to the 12V circuit. I remember that it
>was a hardwired device and not just a simple
>plug this into that type of set up.
>Thanks for putting up with me wasting your time this morning.
No problem Chris . . . sorry that you felt
a duty to be so diligent in the self directed
search. One of the major assets embodied in the
List is a broad spectrum of random access to
data.
I don't recall the exchanges you're citing
but it sounds like you've got a 12v device
that needs un-interruptible power? How much
power does the device need, how long do you
need to support the device in case of power
failure? How big is your battery?
There are a number of power supplies that
could be combined with a relay or perhaps
a diode to effect the changeover. If we
had more details on your mission, perhaps
an elegant solution is readily at hand.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Thermocouple CHT rings |
| From: | "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I'm having trouble getting reliable reading on my MGL EFIS system. I through the
engine was overheating, but have learned that the EFIS/EMS is showing the readings
at 36 C hotter than the K type probe I used to check the cylinder head
temps vis the EFIS readings. It takes a few minutes to remove the cowling then
the plenum chambers. The temps drop to about 110-130 C according to the K
type probe, but the EFIS shows then to be hotter.
I have checked the K type in ice and boiling water and it is right on. The CHT
probes show normal temps, but as soon as heat is applied they start drifting
towards the hot side.
I'm not sure what to do. The CHT probe are K type probe with a solid wire extension
to the EMS unit. The EMS unit is grounded to the engine block.
Any ideals would be a big help.
Rick Stockton
Europa XS
Jabiru 3300L
N120EJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388021#388021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists anyway? I've been working
in the Information Technology industry for over 28 years, primarily in computer
networking design and implementation and more recently as an embedded software
engineer. I have also done a fair amount of work in web design and development.
I started the Matronics Email Lists way back in 1990 shortly after I started building
my RV-4 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since
that time, I have added many other types of aircraft related Lists to the line
up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives
and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers locally.
Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a bonded dual T1 commercial-grade business Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers include a dual quad-core Linux server for List web services
with 24GB of memory, a quad -core Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another standalone Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with multi-terra byts of online storage. This entire system
is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply systems
(UPS) that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage!
Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these
systems. On the average, the elctric bill is in the neighborhood of $7000-$8000/yr
and the newly upgraded dual-T1 Internet connection runs roughly $6000/yr.
A while back, I upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new
power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the
Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists and followed that upgrade up with
a second rack upgrade to house the MONSTER web system that didn't quite fit
into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center prior
to the addition of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've mentioned many times
before, I don't use commercial advertisments to support any of these systems.
It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you...
and you... and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com> |
| Subject: | relay schematic? |
I put this Q out a week ago but no reply...=0AStill looking for a schematic
to show how to wire an IVO PROP (in-flight) to stick controls. I'm fairly
sure I don't want to wire direct -to the small wires used in my Ray Allen
stick as current would or could cook them.-=0ABob, any magic links?=0ATh
anks,=0ADan-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
LOL
| From: | "hooverra" <hooverra(at)comcast.net> |
Altronix makes a number of Power Supply chargers of various capacities. Look for
AL400ULXB for a board only solution. They also have the same supply housed in
a steel cabinet. These are designed for the security and fire alarm business
and they have a great variety of options, capacity, packaging input voltage,
output voltage etc.
www.altronics.com
Ralph
--------
Ralph & Laura Hoover
RV7A N527LR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388102#388102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neal George <ngeorge(at)continentalmotors.aero> |
| Subject: | OT but electron related, I hate it when that |
happens! LOL
Chris - any chance you're looking for Bob's legacy home-brew battery capacity checker?
neal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens!
LOL
-->
>110 AC from a house circuit then to a control box (having a senior
>moment and cant for the life of me think of what this box is called)
>that routes a charging/maintaining current to a
>battery(s) and also provided 12V DC to an external device, then if the
>AC was removed the box would automatically provide power from the
>battery to the 12V circuit. I remember that it was a hardwired device
>and not just a simple plug this into that type of set up.
>Thanks for putting up with me wasting your time this morning.
No problem Chris . . . sorry that you felt
a duty to be so diligent in the self directed
search. One of the major assets embodied in the
List is a broad spectrum of random access to
data.
I don't recall the exchanges you're citing
but it sounds like you've got a 12v device
that needs un-interruptible power? How much
power does the device need, how long do you
need to support the device in case of power
failure? How big is your battery?
There are a number of power supplies that
could be combined with a relay or perhaps
a diode to effect the changeover. If we
had more details on your mission, perhaps
an elegant solution is readily at hand.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
Can anyone make a recommendation for a cost effective bench 24 volt power supply
or battery?
Thank you,
Andy Hawes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
At 11:13 AM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone make a recommendation for a cost effective bench 24 volt
>power supply or battery?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Andy Hawes
How much current? What voltage range (adjustable?).
Current limited (short circuit proof?).
Other requirements not withstanding, these devices
are an exceptional value right now . . .
http://tinyurl.com/d63bggc
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
| From: | "FatBoy" <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I can test anything
from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to avionics, to radios, etc.
I will be running a 24 volt system, so looking for a supply that can provide
24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other recommendations based on
what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks again -- Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388126#388126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
I need some opinions on a non-aviation issue. I use a B&C RG battery in
my airplane and when I chenge them out I keep them for other uses. One
use a 12v Superwinch winch in my house to run a dumbwaiter up and down
and I keep the battery charged with a Battery Tender. OK, here's the
question...will the Battery Tender be damaged if I leave it connected
when I'm using the winch? This has me scratching my head. Bob, care to
chime in on this one? I'm just now setting up my circuitry so if it
needs to be disconnected I can set up a relay that will disconnect it
when the winch is active.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Headphone power requirements |
Hi,
I'm looking for some advice about headphone power requirements as for
some time I have been trying to find an in-ear type of headphone to use
under my helmet. I have a Halo headset, but if I ever have to jump out
something will hurt (but that's better than being dead). I want some
in-ear head phones with a straight connector that will dis-connect if I
ever jump - the mic side is already sorted using a motorcycle helmet
microphone.
I have found an in-ear phone company not too far away who claim between
25 and 40db of attenuation and who also say they provide equipment for
aviation use (http://www.ultimateear.com/pdf/SoundEar_data_sheet.pdf).
However when I asked if they could provide a set compatible with an
output suitable for a nominally 600 ohm headset they were a confused and
asked for the radio specs.
I emailed a Becker AR4201 spec sheet that lists the headphone output as,
"at 13.75V nominal operating voltage >= 100mW at 600 ohm ... dropping to
30mW at 10.0V"
Their comment is that their component supplier says,
"14V nominal drive is much higher than any of our receivers are supposed
to be driven at. Typical drive voltage is 0.1V which is 12dB below 10%
THD. 14 V is 140 times this or about 30dB above 10% THD."
I interpret the Becker spec to mean that when the bus voltage is 13.75V,
the output power is at least 100mW into 600 ohm. And that means the
headphones can expect to see 7.7v? Is that correct?
I was expecting the company to offer some kind of matching/attenuating
box - but I guess this is beyond their capability ...
Are we talking the same language here?
If Vern Little is reading this and has any of his small amplifiers in a
D-sub left on the shelf then I would really like one!
I really do not know much about audio systems, if anyone can provide
some advice I would be very grateful. There must be a simple way forward
(surely ...).
Regards, Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Tender |
At 03:03 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
I need some opinions on a non-aviation issue. I use a B&C RG battery
in my airplane and when I chenge them out I keep them for other
uses. One use a 12v Superwinch winch in my house to run a dumbwaiter
up and down and I keep the battery charged with a Battery
Tender. OK, here's the question...will the Battery Tender be damaged
if I leave it connected when I'm using the winch?
No, you won't hurt it. I'm not aware of the Battery-Tender
response to a discharge event.
I'd not explored this characteristic with the Battery
Tender. I went out to the mess-shop and stuck a load tester
on a car battery that was being "Tended". 100A for 10
15 seconds. The 'charge' light came on and it appears
to be going through a normal charge/top-off cycle.
That's what I would have expected but had never done
that experiment.
This has me scratching my head. Bob, care to chime in on this
one? I'm just now setting up my circuitry so if it needs to be
disconnected I can set up a relay that will disconnect it when the
winch is active.
Not necessary. If you've not yet bought a B-T,
consider a Schumacher 1562 for $20 delivered to
a local WalMart store. Twice the output current
and about 2/3 the price of a B-T.
Whoops . . . I see some B-T's offered for $26 with
free shipping. They're feeling the pressure. B-T
performs as advertised; the 1562 is twice the snort
for less money.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
I emailed a Becker AR4201 spec sheet that lists the headphone output as,
"at 13.75V nominal operating voltage >= 100mW at 600 ohm ... dropping
to 30mW at 10.0V"
Their comment is that their component supplier says,
"14V nominal drive is much higher than any of our receivers are
supposed to be driven at. Typical drive voltage is 0.1V which is 12dB
below 10% THD. 14 V is 140 times this or about 30dB above 10% THD."
These folks didn't understand what they read.
Their .1 v (presumed RMS) for 12 db (1/4 voltage)
below that which produces 10% total harmonic distortion
(diaphragm rattle). All this says nothing about what
you hear. I suspect that the 100 mv into one of those
devices would be painful for a normal hearing person.
Earbuds I have on hand measure about 20 ohms. Making
them to some higher resistance presents some interesting
trade offs. Higher resistance takes more turns of finer
wire (hard). Lower resistance is fewer turns but lower
sensitivity . . . but increased ability to deliver power
from a device operating on a single AA cell.
So if I were to take a WAG, the device you're considering
is about 20 ohms resistance. 100 mv rms into 20 ohms
is 1/2 milliwatt! That much power coupled right to the
ear canal is probably really loud.
I interpret the Becker spec to mean that when the bus voltage is
13.75V, the output power is at least 100mW into 600 ohm. And that
means the headphones can expect to see 7.7v? Is that correct?
Yes. The 'problem' is that we don't know what the real
output impedance is for the headset audio port. It's
PROBABLY pretty low . . . a hard connection to some
form of audio amplifier chip. A chip powered at
14v cannot deliver more that 14v pk-pk, or 5 volts
rms. So that 100 mw figure MIGHT be a peak value.
One never knows for sure without measuring.
In any case, your problem is no so much one of
impedance matching for maximum transfer of power
but one of attenuation that (1) avoids over load
of Becker audio output chips and (2) keeps the
vast majority of that 100 mW from being coupled
to your grey matter.
I was expecting the company to offer some kind of
matching/attenuating box - but I guess this is beyond their capability ...
Are we talking the same language here?
No . . . in fact, we're not sure what language Becker
is using either.
If Vern Little is reading this and has any of his small amplifiers in
a D-sub left on the shelf then I would really like one!
I really do not know much about audio systems, if anyone can provide
some advice I would be very grateful. There must be a simple way
forward (surely ...).
I'm 99% sure that you can experiment with a simple
series resistor between the Becker output and the
ear piece coil.
Starting with a 620 ohm resistor loads the Becker at
640 ohms. No risk. 7.7 VRMS into 620 gives you 12
mA RMS into the network. 12 ma across your 20
ohm ear piece coil produces 250 millivolts . . .
about 2.5 x that which the company claims some
'optimum' level of performance.
So backing your volume control off probably gets
things into the right church. Further fiddling
with the resistor might be necessary to get into
the right pew.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
At 12:27 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I
>can test anything from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to
>avionics, to radios, etc. I will be running a 24 volt system, so
>looking for a supply that can provide 24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
>
>Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other
>recommendations based on what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks
>again -- Andy
Okay. Test the pitot heater with a battery. The
cold resistance of that pitot tube is likely to
be on the order of 1/2 ohm. I.e. 56 amps inrush
to get it started.
I'm not sure there's any value in firing up the
pitot tube on the ground. If it has continuity at
something NOT a dead short . . . then the heater
is fine. Those take so much energy that they can
develop surface temps that discolors the chrome
unless they're cooled by in-flight airflow.
For all other testing, that power supply I suggested
would probably get you going.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
ok -- had no idea it needed that kind of amperage to get going. I wonder how
long it needs to draw 56 amps? Thanks again for the referral -- on order now.
On Nov 16, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> At 12:27 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I can test
anything from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to avionics, to radios, etc.
I will be running a 24 volt system, so looking for a supply that can provide
24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
>>
>> Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other recommendations based
on what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks again -- Andy
>
> Okay. Test the pitot heater with a battery. The
> cold resistance of that pitot tube is likely to
> be on the order of 1/2 ohm. I.e. 56 amps inrush
> to get it started.
>
> I'm not sure there's any value in firing up the
> pitot tube on the ground. If it has continuity at
> something NOT a dead short . . . then the heater
> is fine. Those take so much energy that they can
> develop surface temps that discolors the chrome
> unless they're cooled by in-flight airflow.
>
> For all other testing, that power supply I suggested
> would probably get you going.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Tender |
Thanks Bob,
Actually, I have a 1562 that I keep on my airplane battery which replaced
the B-T that I'm using for my winch battery. I tried the B-T on the winch
battery with the winch operating and everything came back up to a good
charge. Whew, now I don't have to screw around with a disconnecting relay.
Bill
> Not necessary. If you've not yet bought a B-T,
> consider a Schumacher 1562 for $20 delivered to
> a local WalMart store. Twice the output current
> and about 2/3 the price of a B-T.
>
> Whoops . . . I see some B-T's offered for $26 with
> free shipping. They're feeling the pressure. B-T
> performs as advertised; the 1562 is twice the snort
> for less money.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
OK, great information, thanks guys. As an aside I should have mentioned that I
do have Bob's book and have been a follower on this list for quite some time.
My wife thinks I should put a small Jesus like statuette of Bob up on the fireplace
. . . te he he. I think I have seen every page on the Aeroelectric web site
and have compiled a small book on my own of helpful hints and tips. I was
just looking for a school book type of reference to go through the finer details
of "acceptable" wiring/electronic installations.
Thanks again,
Chris
Challenger II
Sonex (underway)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388156#388156
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
LOL
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
Nope, I already have one built.
Thanks though.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388157#388157
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
LOL
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply. I did manage to find something similar (although I KNOW I
have that schematic somewhere!) that will work.
Sorry to have been so vague on what I was looking for but I actually have a couple
of small projects in mind, one was for a remote(ish) cabin with a 12V Dometic
RV type of fridge/freezer and the other was for a portable bi-pap machine
while camping but I think I have that sorted as well. Since it is OT I don't want
to bother anyone with it. Just hoping to hit someones memory and they would
point me to the device that I had seen before.
Thanks,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388158#388158
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
At 08:22 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>
>ok -- had no idea it needed that kind of amperage to get going. I
>wonder how long it needs to draw 56 amps?
Like the incandescent lamp, the heater has
strong positive temperature coefficient of
resistance. Unlike the lamp which heats to
full temperature in a few hundred milliseconds,
the pitot tube takes perhaps 30 seconds to a
minute to get within 95% of it's terminal
temperature.
It only draws 56 amps for a second, 55 amps
for the next seconds, etc
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
At 08:31 AM 11/17/2012, you wrote:
>
>OK, great information, thanks guys. As an aside I should have
>mentioned that I do have Bob's book and have been a follower on this
>list for quite some time. My wife thinks I should put a small Jesus
>like statuette of Bob up on the fireplace . . . te he he. I think I
>have seen every page on the Aeroelectric web site and have compiled
>a small book on my own of helpful hints and tips. I was just looking
>for a school book type of reference to go through the finer details
>of "acceptable" wiring/electronic installations.
Thank you for the endorsement. I'm pleased that
you find our collective efforts so useful.
You have correctly identified the largest hurdle
in the sharing of a practical technology. There's
the study of ingredients that go into recipes for
success, then a recitation of recipes that have
benefited from critical review and practice and
finally, the processes by which those recipes are
brought into useful fruition.
The ancients had guilds of craftsmen who took on promising
new members based on their aptitude, willingness and
perhaps "donations" from their fathers. Membership
in a guild was the shortest path to success in many
disciplines.
You've arrived at the stage where book learn'n needs
to be converted to successes. Your goal for discovery
of "acceptable" processes is certainly adequate to
most tasks. At the same time, we who don't know much
about airplanes are not smart enough to know when
it can't be done . . . so we go do it anyhow.
The study of what has gone before gives you foundation
but don't hesitate to toss a question to the List
for something different. I would further caution against
the notion that all which is published, particularly
by regulatory authority, is not golden.
Some years back, AC43-13 was in a state of revision
some dozen years overdue. The FAA sent a copy of the
proposed update to the EAA tech guru . . . his name
escapes me at the moment. He was invited to spread
the document around with an invitation to comment.
"Oh, by the way, you got 10 days."
I got a copy of chapter 11 and set out to study
the validity of it's latest version. 3-4 days
later, my review along with reviews of many other
EAA members was submitted to the authors.
Dead silence.
I think it was perhaps 18 months later that the latest
and greatest AC43-13 was published. It was much better
but was still sprinkled with toe stubbers in both practice
and technology.
So no matter what you read from any source, an
attitude of healthy skepticism is a good thing.
The best way to dispel any doubt is bring it
to the List where you'll find dozens of sharp
minds who have been-there-done-that on many
things but are not fearful of departure from
legacy process and technology.
As teachers and practitioners of the art, we
all share a quest to design and craft the
elegant solution. Your willingness to participate
in the quest goes to making it happen.
Bob . . .
P.S. It occurred to me some weeks ago that it
might be useful to compile a book of photographs.
Nice close-ups that showed "stuff" installed on
airplanes. Age of the machine or nature of the
devices not important. They say a picture is
worth many words and I agree. A sort of un-narrated
comic book of techniques would offer the neophyte
builders some level of confidence for drilling
that first hole.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
My comments are at the bottom after the PS...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 07:08
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: The hardware side
At 08:31 AM 11/17/2012, you wrote:
>
>OK, great information, thanks guys. As an aside I should have
>mentioned that I do have Bob's book and have been a follower on this
>list for quite some time. My wife thinks I should put a small Jesus
>like statuette of Bob up on the fireplace . . . te he he. I think I
>have seen every page on the Aeroelectric web site and have compiled
>a small book on my own of helpful hints and tips. I was just looking
>for a school book type of reference to go through the finer details
>of "acceptable" wiring/electronic installations.
Thank you for the endorsement. I'm pleased that
you find our collective efforts so useful.
You have correctly identified the largest hurdle
in the sharing of a practical technology. There's
the study of ingredients that go into recipes for
success, then a recitation of recipes that have
benefited from critical review and practice and
finally, the processes by which those recipes are
brought into useful fruition.
The ancients had guilds of craftsmen who took on promising
new members based on their aptitude, willingness and
perhaps "donations" from their fathers. Membership
in a guild was the shortest path to success in many
disciplines.
You've arrived at the stage where book learn'n needs
to be converted to successes. Your goal for discovery
of "acceptable" processes is certainly adequate to
most tasks. At the same time, we who don't know much
about airplanes are not smart enough to know when
it can't be done . . . so we go do it anyhow.
The study of what has gone before gives you foundation
but don't hesitate to toss a question to the List
for something different. I would further caution against
the notion that all which is published, particularly
by regulatory authority, is not golden.
Some years back, AC43-13 was in a state of revision
some dozen years overdue. The FAA sent a copy of the
proposed update to the EAA tech guru . . . his name
escapes me at the moment. He was invited to spread
the document around with an invitation to comment.
"Oh, by the way, you got 10 days."
I got a copy of chapter 11 and set out to study
the validity of it's latest version. 3-4 days
later, my review along with reviews of many other
EAA members was submitted to the authors.
Dead silence.
I think it was perhaps 18 months later that the latest
and greatest AC43-13 was published. It was much better
but was still sprinkled with toe stubbers in both practice
and technology.
So no matter what you read from any source, an
attitude of healthy skepticism is a good thing.
The best way to dispel any doubt is bring it
to the List where you'll find dozens of sharp
minds who have been-there-done-that on many
things but are not fearful of departure from
legacy process and technology.
As teachers and practitioners of the art, we
all share a quest to design and craft the
elegant solution. Your willingness to participate
in the quest goes to making it happen.
Bob . . .
P.S. It occurred to me some weeks ago that it
might be useful to compile a book of photographs.
Nice close-ups that showed "stuff" installed on
airplanes. Age of the machine or nature of the
devices not important. They say a picture is
worth many words and I agree. A sort of un-narrated
comic book of techniques would offer the neophyte
builders some level of confidence for drilling
that first hole.
[Jeff Luckey]
Bob - you are so 20th century. In the above paragraph
replace Book w/ Website - and I agree whole heartedly -
a visual library would speak volumes without a word.
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
>
>
>[Jeff Luckey]
> Bob - you are so 20th century. In the above paragraph
> replace Book w/ Website - and I agree whole heartedly -
> a visual library would speak volumes without a word.
Ahh . . . but of course. That's what I meant. I sorta
started this effort when I built the website. I have
an archive of photos at:
http://tinyurl.com/b5o58uq
but it's really clumsy to access. You have to look
at every picture one at a time to see if it's of
interest.
There should be an html thumbnail page, perhaps 4
columns wide that shows each picture in brief.
Clicking the image of interest would get the reader
a blow up.
I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.
There might also be a click-to-read link for a description
of the photo contents. The text files would be read by the
search engines and cataloged. There might already be
a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
HTML gurus know of one?
This might offer a mechanism for accepting photos from
virtually anyone showing the mechanics of a host of
tasks and getting them published with a minimum of
time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Chris, et al,
This may be what you were looking for. Below are links to the 12 volt
power system <http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf> I have running
throughout my home. Where I live, It seem every time a tree falls, it
takes out a power line and there are frequent black and brown-outs that
have ruined a few of my home network devices. This is what led me to put
this system together but I also use it to power the electrical system of
the RV-10 and charge its batteries.
The system works so well and power disruptions were so frequent, that I
have expanded it and installed 5.5 x 2.1 mm 12v power
connectors<http://compare.ebay.com/like/130702153924?var=lv<yp=AllFix
edPriceItemTypes&var=sbar>in
each room of the house for 12 volt lighting and accessories.
The main fuse block in the basement feeds to additional fuse blocks on the
main floor and in the attic. These upper level fuse block feed rooms and
devices. The system powers ALL my home network (routers, NAS, WiFi
controllers, etc), home phones, cell phone chargers and other accessories.
For
the devices that require other than 12 volts, such as my cable modem that
requires 6 volts, I was able to get inexpensive DC Converter 12V Step down
to 9V and DC Converter12V Step down to
6V<http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Converter-12V-Step-down-to-6V-3A-15W-Power-Su
pply-Module-Waterproof-NEW-/170941285105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=ite
m27cce502f1>from
eBay.
See links below.
During a black or brown-out, the system immediately switches over to
battery power as the relay cuts power to the power
supply<http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Converter-12V-Step-down-to-6V-3A-15W-Powe
r-Supply-Module-Waterproof-NEW-/170941285105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash
=item27cce502f1>and
disengages the power supply from the system.
This is the function of the AC relay. You do not want the power supply to
be on line to the battery when it is not producing power. Otherwise it
will cause additional drain on the system and may be damaged. When power
is restored, the relay is engaged providing power to the system and
recharging the U1 battery. No expensive diode or voltage drop concerns.
With the single generic U1 battery, all my devices will remain powered for
about 4 hours following a power disruption. When I engage the connection
to the Odyssey battery in the RV-10, power capacity increases to about 10
hours. I=92ve since determined that my cable Internet provider battery
backup is good for only about 8 hours so two U1 should be sufficient. Late
r
I plan to integrate a 100 watt solar panel to charge the battery so that
all my home network devices will be =93off the grid.=94 Hope this helps.
Schematic in pdf format with active links to products used:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf
Schematic in jpeg format.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc00.jpg
Basement 12 volt "power board."
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc01.jpg
12V DC 30A 360W Regulated Switching Power Supply
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-DC-30A-360W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Suppl
y-for-LED-Strip-Light-/180852147612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b
a0c59c
5x 2.1mm DC Power Jack Socket Panel Connector
http://compare.ebay.com/like/130702153924?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItem
Types&var=sbar
DC Converter 12V Step down to 6V
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Converter-12V-Step-down-to-6V-3A-15W-Power-Suppl
y-Module-Waterproof-NEW-/170941285105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27
cce502f1
150W DC-ATX Output, 12V Input DC-DC PC Power Supply Board (for converting
PC to run on 12V DC)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261063056565?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p
3984.m1423.l2649
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
The text files would be read by the
search engines and cataloged. There might already be
a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
HTML gurus know of one?
Got the grandkids to bed and did a little
net searching. Seems there's a bunch of 'em.
I'll try some . . . more or less at random . . .
unless anyone has some specific recommendations.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
On 11/17/2012 5:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
> generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.
Not sure what OS your website is running, but I wrote a very
simple Bourne shell script to do this on my Linux based web server. The
script takes an argument of a list of jpg filenames (or just a wildcard,
like "*.jpg" if you want to include all jpg files in a directory). It
reads the list, creates a thumbnail version of the jpg using the
"convert" program (part of the ImageMagick open source suite), and
creates a simple index.html file consisting of the thumbnails, and
clicking on the thumbnails brings up the original full size image.
It is about as basic and non-fancy as you can get, but you are
welcome to use it if it might be helpful to you. Should be easy enough
to modify to create whatever formatting you wish in the html.
File is attached that includes the code.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi William,
Thank you very much for the informative post, this is what I was looking for. I
truly do appreciate you taking the time to post this much information and once
again, sorry to the others for the off topic posting.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388212#388212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Page <jpx(at)qenesis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: The hardware side
>
> I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
> generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.
> There might also be a click-to-read link for a description
> of the photo contents. The text files would be read by the
> search engines and cataloged. There might already be
> a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
> HTML gurus know of one?
>
> This might offer a mechanism for accepting photos from
> virtually anyone showing the mechanics of a host of
> tasks and getting them published with a minimum of
> time.
>
>
> Bob . . .
I have an elaborate korn shell script if anyone wants it. It
processes a directory hierarchy, calling each directory an "album" and
then creates a web page of the albums, photos and videos contained
therein, allowing for easy navigation of topics. It is designed to be
run repeatedly, say daily, or after adding photos.
It calls ImageMagick to create missing thumbnails. Optional text
files in the directories can be used to add album descriptions or
captions, or to leave the existing index.html file for that directory
intact (so that you can use Dreamweaver or whatever to create a fancy
album without having it overwritten. Directories can be flagged for
exclusion, in case you are not ready to include them yet. It also
modifies permissions to ensure the web server can read the files
(requires root permission for this).
It should be relatively easy to adapt to any unix system, since
variables are used to identify all executables called.
The only downside is that the html creates links to the photo files,
which avoids creating an html file for every photo, but means using
the back button on the browser after viewing a photo. No slide show
option :-(
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that |
happens!
| From: | Joe <joseparc(at)aol.com> |
William,
I have a suggestion for improving your 12V system. The weak link in your s
ystem is the connectors, IMHO.
I've started building a house. My goal is off-grid, net zero energy and al
l LED lighting (among other state of the art features). I'm planning on a
12V distribution system along with a 120/240VAC system. I will be using t
he Anderson Power Pole Connectors for the 12V system http://www.anderson
power.com/products/singlepole-connectors.html . These are the same connect
ors used by many of the Amateur Radio Emergency Services organizations arou
nd the country for their rugged reliability and dependability. The PP15 s
eries offers 15A capability, hermaphroditic housings and contacts (both cri
mp and solder) and color coded housings. Their silver plated contacts are
rated for 10,000 mating cycles.
For house wiring it would be nice to have the connectors mounted in the wal
l like an AC duplex receptacle. Unfortunately Anderson doesn't offer a wal
l plate for that purpose, but they do offer mounting clamps that can be use
d to secure the connector assemblies to any flat panel. I'm planning to bu
y blank wall plates and modify them by adding a rectangular cutout and hole
s for the mounting clamp hardware.
If I was into home built aircraft, I would probably be using these connecto
rs.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 10:11 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when tha
t happens!
Chris, et al,
This may be what you were looking for. Below are links to the 12 volt powe
r system Ihave running throughout my home. Where Ilive, It seem every time
a tree falls, it takes out a power line and there arefrequent black and br
own-outs that have ruined a few of my home networkdevices. This is what le
d me to put thissystem together but I also use it to power the electrical s
ystem of the RV-10and charge its batteries.
The system works so well and power disruptions were so frequent, thatI have
expanded it and installed 5.5 x 2.1 mm 12v power connectors in each room o
f the house for 12 volt lighting and accessories. The main fuse block in t
he basement feeds toadditional fuse blocks on the main floor and in the att
ic. These upper level fuse block feed rooms anddevices. The system powers
ALL my homenetwork (routers, NAS, WiFi controllers, etc), home phones, cel
l phone chargersand other accessories. For the devicesthat require other t
han 12 volts, such as my cable modem that requires 6 volts,I was able to ge
t inexpensive DC Converter 12V Step down to 9V and DC Converter12V Step dow
n to 6V from eBay. See links below.
During a black or brown-out, the system immediately switches over tobattery
power as the relay cuts power to the power supply and disengages thepower
supply from the system. This isthe function of the AC relay. You do notwa
nt the power supply to be on line to the battery when it is not producingpo
wer. Otherwise it will causeadditional drain on the system and may be dama
ged. When power is restored, the relay is engagedproviding power to the sy
stem and recharging the U1 battery. No expensive diodeor voltage drop conce
rns.
With the single generic U1 battery, all my devices will remain poweredfor a
bout 4 hours following a powerdisruption. When I engage the connectionto
the Odyssey battery in the RV-10, power capacity increases to about 10 hour
s. I=99ve since determined that my cable Internet providerbattery ba
ckup is good for only about 8 hours so two U1 should be sufficient. Later
I plan to integrate a 100 watt solar panel tocharge the battery so that all
my home network devices will be =9Coff the grid.=9D Hope this
helps.
Schematic in pdf format with active links to products used:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf
Schematic in jpeg format.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc00.jpg
Basement 12 volt "power board."
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc01.jpg
12V DC 30A 360W Regulated Switching Power Supply
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-DC-30A-360W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Suppl
y-for-LED-Strip-Light-/180852147612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b
a0c59c
5x 2.1mm DC Power Jack Socket Panel Connector
http://compare.ebay.com/like/130702153924?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItem
Types&var=sbar
DC Converter 12V Step down to 6V
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Converter-12V-Step-down-to-6V-3A-15W-Power-Suppl
y-Module-Waterproof-NEW-/170941285105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27
cce502f1
150W DC-ATX Output, 12V Input DC-DC PC Power Supply Board (forconverting PC
to run on 12V DC)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261063056565?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p
3984.m1423.l2649
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Joe,
Thanks for the suggestion but while I have a few of these Anderson Power
Pole connectors in strategic areas of the RV-10, the 5.5 x 2.1 mm
connectors work best "end user facing" as they are circular (easy to
install in panels as you mention), are inexpensive and can easily carry
more than the 7.5 amps that I limit them to. Even a simple DB connector
pin is rated for 5 amps. The highest power consuming device I have is my
NAS device which pulls about 3 amps. The Anderson Power Pole connectors
are great if you need high amp (>20) power couplings however. My 2.1mm
power connectors are in the same Ethernet wall
plate<http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc03.jpg> adjacent
to the RJ-45 connector in a blank drilled out 8mm.
Wall plate with telephone, 2.1 mm power connector and Ethernet.
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc03.jpg
Attic fuse block
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc02.jpg
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
A quick reminder that November is the annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists
are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are covered solely
through your Contributions during this time of the year.
*Your* personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics
Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running for another
great year!
Use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by sending a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
William,
The links don't work for me.
Eric
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Schematic in pdf format with active links to products used:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf (http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf)
--
William
N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ (http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388338#388338
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linda Walker <l.p(at)talk21.com> |
| Subject: | HF antenna issues |
Bob and all.
I'm trying to insulate an aircraft's wiring from the rfi/emi effects of an
HF antenna in a fibreglass Long-EZs wing. A counterpoise to the antenna wil
l lie in the opposite wing.
I had thought of using a grounded (?) copper conduit for all the wing wirin
g ... fuel tank capacitance gauge/strobe and navigation lighting/vhf nav-co
m cables, but with an output of 100W I am worried that the in-wing HF anten
na will set up a field that will still cause issues.
There is still the case of using a common ground for the existing wiring an
d the new radio causing problems.
Any thoughts on a suitable insulator or solution to this?
Many thanks.
Patrick Elliott.
G-LGEZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
| From: | "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> |
Swapped antennas. Just changed the connections at the antennas, and was able to
transmit from the apron to an in flight aircraft over 25miles away! The twiggy
looking coat hanger style antenna under the fuselage works like a charm! The
handheld works fine on the antenna that the A200 didn't like. Still need to flight
test the final result, but all appears resolved....... Go figure!
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388369#388369
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: relay schematic? |
| From: | "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Sorry . . . still out of town but here's an exemplar approach.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/PitchTrim.pdf
The relays need to be pretty hefty . . . like S704 from B&C. Back in the office
tomorrow night.
Bob . . .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388372#388372
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
Eric,
You probably have a setting in you Adobe Acrobat viewer that is supressing
the hyperlinks. I have listed them below however.
30 Amp Regulated Switching Power Supply ($30)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12V-DC-30A-360W-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-for-LED-Strip-Light-/180852147612
12 Position Fuse Panel With Grounding Pad ($20-$25)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATC-ATO-12-Position-Fuse-Panel-Grounding-Pad-/330831959769
Sears U1 Battery (02827199000) ($35)
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827199000P?mv=rr&i_cntr=1313694317693
120 VAC RELAY, DPDT 12 AMPS ($1.75)
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RLY-453/120-VAC-RELAY-DPDT-12-AMPS/1.html
DC Power Jack 2.1mm Panel Mount (10 for $3.50)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pc-2-1mm-DC-Power-Jack-Socket-Panel-Mount-Connector-top-quality-/261117327193
Analog Current Panel Meter DC 30A (85C1)
http://www.amazon.com/Analog-Current-Panel-Meter-Ammeter/dp/B0050GIN2Q
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when
> that happens!
> From: "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com>
>
>
> William,
> The links don't work for me.
> Eric
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Schematic in pdf format with active links to products used:
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf (
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ehome/homedc.pdf)
> --
William
RV10 - 40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HF antenna issues |
At 04:22 PM 11/19/2012, you wrote:
>Bob and all.
>I'm trying to insulate an aircraft's wiring from the rfi/emi effects
>of an HF antenna in a fibreglass Long-EZs wing. A counterpoise to
>the antenna will lie in the opposite wing.
>
>I had thought of using a grounded (?) copper conduit for all the
>wing wiring ... fuel tank capacitance gauge/strobe and navigation
>lighting/vhf nav-com cables, but with an output of 100W I am worried
>that the in-wing HF antenna will set up a field that will still cause issues.
There's a VERY high probability for that condition.
Keeping HF out of the electro-whizzies on a metal
airplane can be a challenge. There's no hard-and-
fast rules for an installation that's not first
researched in the lab and then vetted over a series
of successful field installations.
The question to be asked first is, so it interferes
with SOME things. Does this interference create a
hazard? So gauges don't read right while your talking
but are okay when you're listening.
A/P servos trying to turn the airplane upside down
are problematic. You'd attack that problem with shielding
and filtering local to the actuator.
>There is still the case of using a common ground for the existing
>wiring and the new radio causing problems.
>
>Any thoughts on a suitable insulator or solution to this?
It's not an issue of 'grounding' but of the potential
susceptibility of all the victims to stresses they
were never qualified for. Conduits and special grounds
are of limited if any value. Suggest you get it all installed
and then attack each critical condition one-at-a-time.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | HF antenna issues |
This is somewhat timely. Here is my setup...
RV-10
Garmin stack from top to bottom: G430, SL30, GTX327, GMA340, trutrak A/P
To the left is 2 GRT HX screens with GRT EIS underneath and switches all
along the bottom of panel.
I have only recently installed the SL30 - wiring was all there just didn't
have the unit in the tray yet.
SL30 uses Archer wingtip antenna, 430 uses bent whip on belly.
RG400 runs from units to antennas
I was in the cockpit with engine off learning the new SL30. I had the entire
panel powered up. I noticed while transmitting over the SL30 my fuel
pressure would rise from zero to about 50 psi if I held the push to talk. I
tried the 430 today and it also responds but about half as bad and I had
never noticed it before, it had never caused the FP to exceed limits so I
did not notice it in flight.
I have flown with the SL30 and when transmitting it sends the FP up enough
to exceed the limit (35) which annoyingly gets my attention.
The FP sender wires pass near the SL30 antenna wire so today I separated
them but that only helped a little, or did it??. When I unhook the antenna
wire from the SL30 pigtail and transmit there is no effect - when I use the
copilot push to talk I get the same effects.
The FP sender gets power from the EIS 12V output not direct ship power,
grounds at forest of tabs and third wire inputs to EIS.
I am doing the conditional after a year of flying and have put off some
gripes, so I have planned to spend some time on things
Any ideas on how to limit this interference?
Thanks
Chris Lucas
RV-10
N919AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: HF antenna issues
-->
At 04:22 PM 11/19/2012, you wrote:
>Bob and all.
>I'm trying to insulate an aircraft's wiring from the rfi/emi effects of
>an HF antenna in a fibreglass Long-EZs wing. A counterpoise to the
>antenna will lie in the opposite wing.
>
>I had thought of using a grounded (?) copper conduit for all the wing
>wiring ... fuel tank capacitance gauge/strobe and navigation
>lighting/vhf nav-com cables, but with an output of 100W I am worried
>that the in-wing HF antenna will set up a field that will still cause
issues.
There's a VERY high probability for that condition.
Keeping HF out of the electro-whizzies on a metal
airplane can be a challenge. There's no hard-and-
fast rules for an installation that's not first
researched in the lab and then vetted over a series
of successful field installations.
The question to be asked first is, so it interferes
with SOME things. Does this interference create a
hazard? So gauges don't read right while your talking
but are okay when you're listening.
A/P servos trying to turn the airplane upside down
are problematic. You'd attack that problem with shielding
and filtering local to the actuator.
>There is still the case of using a common ground for the existing
>wiring and the new radio causing problems.
>
>Any thoughts on a suitable insulator or solution to this?
It's not an issue of 'grounding' but of the potential
susceptibility of all the victims to stresses they
were never qualified for. Conduits and special grounds
are of limited if any value. Suggest you get it all installed
and then attack each critical condition one-at-a-time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Some Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support
Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available this year, so please browse the nice selection
and pickup something fun with your qualifying Contribution!
You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or feel free to send a personal check to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Outstanding service to the flying community.
George A
Matt, I look forward to support each others projects,
Glenn B
Great list!!! Thanks for all your efforts!
Roger C
Thank you for keeping up the lists. Without it i would never
have completed my aircraft.
Stan S
Keep up the good work my friend. I don't think I could ever
finish my Pietenpol Air Camper without the help I get from
this List.
Tom S
Thank you for keeping these list alive.
Lee V
The List is invaluable!!
Svein J
Thanks for continuing to provide the list service!
Earl S
You have a really GREAT service. Thankyou so much I've been on
for nearly 30 years and I still check-in every morning.
John B
I rely fully on the lists which govern my every decision. The
flexibility provides the security I seek.
Fergus K
My RV 7 Finally flies... 7 years of Matronics.com certainly
helped.
Martin H
Great service here, thanks! I am just getting back to a
project I dropped for a few years, great to see your site
and all the folks again!
James C
Thanks for the great site.
Robert U
The Rotax list is good and the AeroElectric list outstanding!
Jay H
Thank you for a great resource!
Jack T
Thanks for your great record of outstanding service to the
homebuilding community!
Larry W
This service is invaluable.
Michael W
You're doing a great job Matt.
Robert D
Thanks for all your work, its a great asset to all.
John F
Thank you for your time & effort Matt!
Ted W
Matt, been a follower since 2005 on the -10 list, now
starting an -8. Keep up the great work!
John M
Still my favorite place to hang out.
William W
I'm not a Piet builder, but this is the most informative and
congenial list I've ever run across. Please forgive my
lurking-I learn a LOT here!
Ken M
Many thanks for keeping this alive, keep pushing!
Adrian C
Thanks! Please keep r going!
Rich Z
Many thanks for your hard work.
Robert C
Thanks for the Lists! I probably need to subscribe to a few
more...
John M
Been a quick 14 years. Think I subscribed to the Kolb
List in 1998, when I got my first computer. Thanks for
keeping everything running smoothly for all these years.
John H
Great resource - thank you.
David M
I don't post very much, but get the postings, a lot of really
practical info.
John N
Great job Matt, thanks for all you do.
Roger M
Thanks for ANOTHER great year, Matt! True grassroots
experimental aviation has been pushed aside in many ways.
But the List represents the evolution of this great
tradition of home-building. One man, the plans, the tools,
and the List - that's all you need to build the dream!
Robert B
This message board is a real help to my project and creating
friendships.
John S
Many thanks for your continuing excellent work.
Mike G
Thank you for your work Matt. Your lists have helped me a
great deal during the construction of my plane.
Hal B
Nice List
Van E
These lists are priceless for builders.
Ronald C
Thanks for keeping me in touch with the Pulsar community.
Otto S
Thanks for keeping up this great warbird sight!!
Yak Ron
Thanks for providing all the lists for so many years.
H H
Thanks for all that you do. Your dedication is much appreciated!
Warren H
Best service on the internet!
Owen B
I have learned so much from the "list".
Nick C
Great Service You Are Providing!
Giffen M
Thanks so much for maintaining these great resources.
Dave S
I no longer fly due to age and health problems, but I still
enjoy the reading from other pilots.
Dallas S
This is a wonderful site.
Robert B
Useful service over the last year - thanks.
Om T
-------------------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists --------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
| From: | "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com> |
William,
Those elinks work fine. Thank you for your service
Eric
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388515#388515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
At 07:24 PM 11/19/2012, you wrote:
>
>Swapped antennas. Just changed the connections at the antennas, and
>was able to transmit from the apron to an in flight aircraft over
>25miles away! The twiggy looking coat hanger style antenna under the
>fuselage works like a charm! The handheld works fine on the antenna
>that the A200 didn't like. Still need to flight test the final
>result, but all appears resolved....... Go figure!
If I understand correctly, the coax feed lines to the
two antennas are long enough and the antennas are
close enough to each other that you could simply swapped
the feed lines?
Refresh my memory . . . what kind of airplane, what
kind of antennas and where are they located on the
airplane?
Did you ever get a look-see at SWR for the 'problem'
antenna?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linda Walker <l.p(at)talk21.com> |
| Subject: | HF antenna issues |
Bob.
Many thanks for your reply, informative as always.
You're right of course ... if some gauges don't work while transmitting the
n that's not a real problem. And it's highly unlikely that I'll be transmit
ting on vhf and hf at the same time.
But my concern is that while transmitting on hf that the induced field may
cause some more long-term effects in these electrical systems.
And also as the low end hf frequencies are getting closer to microwaves, I'
m a little worried that the foam may get very hot and lose it's structural
properties.
Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Either way, I shall do as you say ... install and test.
Many thanks again.
Patrick Elliott.
G-LGEZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0IERpZ2VzdDogMyBNc2dzIC0gMTEvMjAvMTI=? |
U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiBIRiBhbnRlbm5hIGlzc3VlcwoKQXQgMDQ6
MjIgUE0gMTEvMTkvMjAxMiwgeW91IHdyb3RlOiA+Qm9iIGFuZCBhbGwuID5JJ20gdHJ5aW5nIHRv
IGluc3VsYXRlIGFuIGFpcmNyYWZ0J3Mgd2lyaW5nIGZyb20gdGhlIHJmaS9lbWkgZWZmZWN0cyA+
b2YgYW4gSEYgYW50ZW5uYSBpbiBhIGZpYnJlZ2xhc3MgTG9uZy1FWnMgd2luZy4gQSBjb3VudGVy
cG9pc2UgdG8gPnRoZSBhbnRlbm5hIHdpbGwgbGllIGluIHRoZSBvcHBvc2l0ZSB3aW5nLiA+ID5J
IGhhZCB0aG91Z2h0IG9mIHVzaW5nIGEgZ3JvdW5kZWQgKD8pIGNvcHBlciBjb25kdWl0IGZvciBh
bGwgdGhlID53aW5nIHdpcmluZyAuLi4gZnVlbCB0YW5rIGNhcGFjaXRhbmNlIGdhdWdlL3N0cm9i
ZSBhbmQgbmF2aWdhdGlvbiA+bGlnaHRpbmcvdmhmIG5hdi1jb20gY2FibGVzLCBidXQgd2l0aCBh
biBvdXRwdXQgb2YgMTAwVyBJIGFtIHdvcnJpZWQgPnRoYXQgdGhlIGluLXdpbmcgSEYgYW50ZW5u
YSB3aWxsIHNldCB1cCBhIGZpZWxkIHRoYXQgd2lsbCBzdGlsbCBjYXVzZSBpc3N1ZXMuCgpUaGVy
ZSdzIGEgVkVSWSBoaWdoIHByb2JhYmlsaXR5IGZvciB0aGF0IGNvbmRpdGlvbi4gS2VlcGluZyBI
RiBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIGVsZWN0cm8td2hpenppZXMgb24gYSBtZXRhbCBhaXJwbGFuZSBjYW4gYmUg
YSBjaGFsbGVuZ2UuIFRoZXJlJ3Mgbm8gaGFyZC1hbmQtZmFzdCBydWxlcyBmb3IgYW4gaW5zdGFs
bGF0aW9uIHRoYXQncyBub3QgZmlyc3QgcmVzZWFyY2hlZCBpbiB0aGUgbGFiIGFuZCB0aGVuIHZl
dHRlZCBvdmVyIGEgc2VyaWVzIG9mIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwgZmllbGQgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9ucy4KClRo
ZSBxdWVzdGlvbiB0byBiZSBhc2tlZCBmaXJzdCBpcywgc28gaXQgaW50ZXJmZXJlcyB3aXRoIFNP
TUUgdGhpbmdzLiBEb2VzIHRoaXMgaW50ZXJmZXJlbmNlIGNyZWF0ZSBhIGhhemFyZD8gU28gZ2F1
Z2VzIGRvbid0IHJlYWQgcmlnaHQgd2hpbGUgeW91ciB0YWxraW5nIGJ1dCBhcmUgb2theSB3aGVu
IHlvdSdyZSBsaXN0ZW5pbmcuCgpBL1Agc2Vydm9zIHRyeWluZyB0byB0dXJuIHRoZSBhaXJwbGFu
ZSB1cHNpZGUgZG93biBhcmUgcHJvYmxlbWF0aWMuIFlvdSdkIGF0dGFjayB0aGF0IHByb2JsZW0g
d2l0aCBzaGllbGRpbmcgYW5kIGZpbHRlcmluZyBsb2NhbCB0byB0aGUgYWN0dWF0b3IuCgo+VGhl
cmUgaXMgc3RpbGwgdGhlIGNhc2Ugb2YgdXNpbmcgYSBjb21tb24gZ3JvdW5kIGZvciB0aGUgZXhp
c3RpbmcgPndpcmluZyBhbmQgdGhlIG5ldyByYWRpbyBjYXVzaW5nIHByb2JsZW1zLiA+ID5Bbnkg
dGhvdWdodHMgb24gYSBzdWl0YWJsZSBpbnN1bGF0b3Igb3Igc29sdXRpb24gdG8gdGhpcz8KCkl0
J3Mgbm90IGFuIGlzc3VlIG9mICdncm91bmRpbmcnIGJ1dCBvZiB0aGUgcG90ZW50aWFsIHN1c2Nl
cHRpYmlsaXR5IG9mIGFsbCB0aGUgdmljdGltcyB0byBzdHJlc3NlcyB0aGV5IHdlcmUgbmV2ZXIg
cXVhbGlmaWVkIGZvci4gQ29uZHVpdHMgYW5kIHNwZWNpYWwgZ3JvdW5kcyBhcmUgb2YgbGltaXRl
ZCBpZiBhbnkgdmFsdWUuIFN1Z2dlc3QgeW91IGdldCBpdCBhbGwgaW5zdGFsbGVkIGFuZCB0aGVu
IGF0dGFjayBlYWNoIGNyaXRpY2FsIGNvbmRpdGlvbiBvbmUtYXQtYS10aW1lLgoKQm9iIC4gLiAu
CgpBIGdyZWF0IHJlc291cmNlIG1pZ2h0IGJlIGxvb2tpbmcgYmFjayB0byBzZWUgd2hhdCBSb2Rp
ZSBSb2Rld2FsZCBkaWQgb24gaGlzIExvbmctRVogKE4xMzQ0VCkgYmFjayBpbiAnODIgd2hlbiBo
ZSBmbGV3IGZyb20gSGF3YWlpIHRvIE9zaGtvc2guLi4gSSBub3cgb3duIHRoZSBhaXJwbGFuZSwg
YnV0IGhpcyBhcnRpY2xlIGluIHRoZSBjYW5hcmRzIHB1c2hlciBjb3ZlcmVkIGhpcyBIRCByYWRp
byBpc3N1ZXMuIEkgdW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSBhbSBsYWNraW5nIG1hbnkgb2YgdGhlIHNwZWNpZmlj
cywgYnV0IHRoZSBhcnRpY2xlIGRvZXMgdGFsayBhYm91dCBpdCBhdCBsZW5ndGguIERyb3AgbWUg
YW4gZW1haWwgaWYgeW91IGNhbid0IGZpbmQgaXQuIAoKUmVnYXJkcywKCkFuZHkKCk1leWVyICBr
YyAgICAxMzUgICAgIGF0LiAgIEdtYWlsLiAgICBDb20KICAKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IEhUQyBvbiB0
aGUgTm93IE5ldHdvcmsgZnJvbSBTcHJpbnQhCgo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HF antenna issues |
As Bob mentions, it is very likely that your HF installation will create
disturbances in other aircraft systems. Every transmission will be a
test, it's your responsibility to explore all frequencies you will be
using against all aircraft systems -- it's a large matrix. Changes of a
few kHz may cause huge differences in behavior as you excite one or
another tuned conductive element. Having designed and debugged a few of
these in light twins, I can offer some comments. First of all, you will
not be able to "shield" everything because the shields cannot enclose
the entire victim system. Near-field RF energy will couple into
everything conductive, and every "shield" will be some kind of antenna
for RF. Second, behavior will be very different at different operating
frequencies. You may find no disturbance at all at some frequencies and
significant disruption at others. There is no such thing as a "common
ground" here because all wires will have significant reactance at the
frequencies in use.
The most common HF radio systems for light aircraft for many years was
(may still be) Sunair. Their library of legacy product manuals is online
at www.sunairhf.com. Check out their older manuals for antenna tuning
units for good hints on how to do this. Try all the frequency bands
you'll be using, to see what disturbance is created to which systems.
You will be trying a new approach using the driven element in one wing
and the "counterpoise" in the other. Frankly this sounds like trouble,
especially in a fiberglass airplane with fuel tanks in the same wing.
There is little difference between something you call a counterpoise,
and for instance the nav light wiring, they all return to the ground
point of the antenna tuner. You will have high voltages at some points
on the driven element, and lots of opportunity for discharge through the
fiberglass in the vicinity of the tank. There can also be high voltage
nodes on the "counterpoise" and on every other conductive part of the
aircraft, because *all* parts of the aircraft will be part of the
antenna. In a Navajo I worked on, we had arcing around one of the flap
hinges at certain frequencies.
At the very least be sure there is a low inductance conductive path
completely enclosing the fuel tank (copper tape strips for instance)
that is bonded to the antenna tuner output (which will be the reference
ground point for the HF system.) At HF it doesn't have to be a solid
shield, but the openings in the mesh that you make need to be no more
than about 1/20 of a wavelength.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HF antenna issues |
At 10:15 AM 11/21/2012, you wrote:
>Bob.
>Many thanks for your reply, informative as always.
>
>You're right of course ... if some gauges don't work while
>transmitting then that's not a real problem. And it's highly
>unlikely that I'll be transmitting on vhf and hf at the same time.
>
>But my concern is that while transmitting on hf that the induced
>field may cause some more long-term effects in these electrical systems.
I've got no reason to believe this is likely.
It's VERY difficult to conduct significant energy
levels by radiation to cause damage to surrounding
components.
I remember one case at Boeing back about 1961 when
a B52 across the ramp from one I was working on radiated
the nose radar for a short period of time . . . that
took out the mixer diode in the radar receiver on the
airplane I was working on . . . or at least that was
the theory. The mixer diode was inop on a newly installed
TRX and the airplane opposite had the chin shield (harpex
lined) down for other maintenance issues. Never did really
find out for sure.
But that was 50KW pulses focused with narrow look-angle
antennas across a distance of perhaps 100 yards.
>And also as the low end hf frequencies are getting closer to
>microwaves, I'm a little worried that the foam may get very hot and
>lose it's structural properties.
>Am I worrying unnecessarily?
Yeah. 99.99% of system integration grief is
limited to effects of one system degrading
performance of another system. The majority
of those don't present a hazard except for
interference with runway approach radios,
autopilots and electronic controlled fuel
injection/ignition systems.
It's probably unlikely that you'll be yakking
it up on 20m while on an coupled approach to a field
at minimums.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sub-standard Charging |
| From: | "go_lancair" <glenn.long(at)gmail.com> |
All - thanks for the replies. Sorry, just getting back to responding.
"What's the field voltage while in flight?" 12.5
Bob - Thanks for the tip and Reference to the Ford Regulator.
Did you ever get that AEC9004 as depicted on Figure Z-24A of the AppZ_Rev12A?
For reference my system is setup as shown on page 34, Figure Z-24 (Interim) of
the AppZ_Rev12A. The contactor as depicted is recommended for isolation by AeroSport
Power.
I have not compared the voltage of the e-bus under endurance with the SD-8 yet.
I will do so over the weekend and report back.
In my testing I used a document from Plane Power (I believe they sell the alternator
to Aerosport - Don't hold me to the fire on that 1).
In that document they request the validation of the voltage from all points electric
on the ship. I even tested my wife's voltage which appeared higher than
usual today.
http://www.plane-power.com/troubleshooting.htm (pick 1 from the Exp Area with IR)
In any event each point in the test came out the same, 11.8 (or very close). The
essential bus side of the diode was 11.4 (expected lower). Note: the 11.8 value
reflects my battery
receiving an insufficient charge.
In some respects, my review of the system has improved my lot. My voltage is up
to 13.8 (better), but I cannot explain why. Perhaps 1 of you with whom has as
a better
relationship to electrons can explain?
A bit of history: When I started flying my ship (12/2010) I cooked the wire between
the alt. Field CB/Swtich (see Figure 24) and the contactor/field. After extracting
the melted plastic
from my wiring harness, I decided to simply run a jumper wire between the hot side
(batt contactor) of the alternator contactor and the switch (+). This of course
provided for activating the alternator contactor
when the main bus switch was turned on (position 1). No harm done, but I essentially
removed the ability to isolate the alternator without turning off the main
DC power switch.
So, from that day forward my system ran/charged at 12.5 volts. As an FYI, my battery
was always 11.8 when I went out to start.
Last weekend I reviewed the drawing and decided to reunite the connection between
the switch/5 amp breaker, the field wire and the contactor.
Bling! - my voltage jumped up to 13.8. Makes no sense to me? The only difference
being the contactor was already open when the alt field was activated.
I'm sure someone else can explain.
As for getting an even higher, 14.1+, I'm up for suggestions. Given that my system
has climbed to 13.8, I have to assume the alternator (80 amp) is putting out.
BTW - Max Amp demand on my ship is about 10. Normal load is between 5-8. Don't
even ask. I bought the 80 amp because at the time I thought more was better :)
Bob Borger - Saw your note: Perhaps this and a more knowledgeable reply from our
tutors will assist your situation.
Thanks and Have a great Thanksgiving!,
Glenn Long
KLOM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388546#388546
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HF antenna issues |
>You will be trying a new approach using the driven element in one
>wing and the "counterpoise" in the other. Frankly this sounds like
>trouble, especially in a fiberglass airplane with fuel tanks in the
>same wing. There is little difference between something you call a
>counterpoise, and for instance the nav light wiring, they all return
>to the ground point of the antenna tuner. You will have high
>voltages at some points on the driven element, and lots of
>opportunity for discharge through the fiberglass in the vicinity of
>the tank. There can also be high voltage nodes on the "counterpoise"
>and on every other conductive part of the aircraft, because *all*
>parts of the aircraft will be part of the antenna. In a Navajo I
>worked on, we had arcing around one of the flap hinges at certain frequencies.
D.L.'s misgivings stand on 80 years experience
and experiments to optimize HF performance on
airplanes while minimizing deleterious effects
to systems on board. A contemporary example presented
to your's truly about 8 years ago where an HF transceiver
installed on a Hawker 800 presented mysterious, inconsistent,
wildly variable problems that ranged from interference with
fuel level readings to total shutdown of all engine driven
power sources (including APU) while transmitting.
[]
The problem was 'mysterious' because this same configuration
of transmitter and receiver had been installed years gone
by with a tiny fraction of the problems.
The difference was a new antenna concept that abandoned
the older low current, high voltage wire antennas. Owners
begrudgingly tolerated those ugly wires so as to enjoy over-water
H.F. performance on their airplanes.
Needless to say, ALL were willing to pay killobux to have
an antenna integrated into the aircraft's structure. This
called for insulating the leading edge structure of the
vertical fin, grounding it to structure at the top and
exciting it with a very agile antenna tuner at the bottom.
Then the problems started. Bottom line was that aircraft
structure coated with primer and assembled with rivets
was never designed to be part of an antenna ground system.
Airplane to airplane variations produced an constellation
of effects that seldom repeated. Radiation levels in the
hell-hole were often high (200+ volts per meter) and
varied widely in terms of position within the hell-hole
and the excitation frequency.
I got to spend a week in the delivery center just before
xmas 2005 trying to keep the generators on-line on three
airplanes otherwise slated for delivery (before end of
year).
Discovered that legacy generator controllers were never
qualified to work in this new interference environment that
had not existed before the antenna change.
Managed to craft "special connectors"
Emacs!
From RadioShack capacitors and Walmart epoxy that kept
huge levels of hell-hole RF from getting into the generator
controllers.
Didn't fix the original problem (which was never going to
be fixed) but it did get those airplanes flown away before
Dec 31.
I mention this to illustrate what appears to be an arcane
sifting of cause/effect to deduce the effective band-aid.
You won't know what the problems are until you test and
a really elegant solution may be unattainable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 11/20/12 |
>
>A great resource might be looking back to see what Rodie Rodewald
>did on his Long-EZ (N1344T) back in '82 when he flew from Hawaii to
>Oshkosh... I now own the airplane, but his article in the canards
>pusher covered his HD radio issues. I unfortunately am lacking many
>of the specifics, but the article does talk about it at length. Drop
>me an email if you can't find it.
I found some mentions on the airplane/pilot/flight but
no details on his radio installations. 1982 was a bit
before my 'new beginnings' in OBAM aircraft (OSH 1986).
I'd like to read more.
I do recall a gentleman who live in Brazil and flew
his Long to OSH every year. He had a compact HF transceiver
in the cockpit but I don't recall his antenna installation
either. Seems that the engine presents the greatest potential
for an RF 'mass' against which a voltage fed antenna might
be driven.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sub-standard Charging |
At 01:14 PM 11/21/2012, you wrote:
>
>All - thanks for the replies. Sorry, just getting back to responding.
>
>"What's the field voltage while in flight?" 12.5
That says the regulator is flogging an alternator
incapable of delivering power to the bus. I.e.
dead or disconnected. Average field voltage in flight
for a belt driven alternator is less than
3 volts.
>Bling! - my voltage jumped up to 13.8. Makes no sense to me? The
>only difference being the contactor was already open when the alt
>field was activated.
Yup . . . getting the contactor closed can make
a BIG difference.
>I'm sure someone else can explain.
>
>As for getting an even higher, 14.1+, I'm up for suggestions. Given
>that my system has climbed to 13.8, I have to assume the alternator
>(80 amp) is putting out.
>BTW - Max Amp demand on my ship is about 10. Normal load is between
>5-8. Don't even ask. I bought the 80 amp because at the time I
>thought more was better :)
13.8 will probably suffice. When the regulator
is built in, what you see is what you get.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
| From: | "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> |
Bob;
It's a Zodiac 601XL-B. One antenna is right behind pilots head, other right below.
The coax is long enough on each to swap connections AT the antennas. I never
got a look at the SWR for the antennas. I can't believe the range I get now.
20 miles from sitting on the apron at the airport talking to an aircraft flying
THAT far away! Unreal! With an antenna UNDER the airframe none the less! Did
some taxi tests today, and tower was very happy with my clarity etc. 5/5. The
handheld also works on the problem antenna with no issues. My theory.......
The A200 puts out just a little too much power to be so close to the actual pilots
head. Within 2 feet of headset. When I moved my head forward, the squeal
almost completely disappeared.
Puzzled...... But happy with result.
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388561#388561
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
The A200 puts out just a little too much power to be so close to the
actual pilots head. Within 2 feet of headset. When I moved my head
forward, the squeal almost completely disappeared.
Puzzled.....
I'm not. The electret microphone in your
mic-headset has some electromagic devices
between the actual mic cartridge and the
radio . . . seems our radios would STILL
work fine with a 1940's carbon microphone
connected to them.
That little bit of electronics has to
amplify MICROVOLTS off the microphone up
to several hundreds of millivolts to make
the transmitter happy. What's more, the
electronics is fitted with some rather
efficient antennas on both the goesinta
and goesouta connections. I wish I'd
known that your headset was so exposed to
the antenna . . . that would have raised a
big red flag.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
| From: | "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> |
Bob;
So then this makes sense to you? Why doesn't the handheld not show similar issues
with that same antenna behind my head? Lower output? Less of a radio over all?
So in the end, it very well could have been the close proximity of the antenna
for the A200?
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388567#388567
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
Not Bob,
But yes. 5-8 watts of output very close to headset, vs 150 milliwatt
output of handheld.
I've seen similar effects when headset was close to antenna coax and
coax had bad shield connection.
Kelly
On 11/21/2012 7:26 PM, SIDESLIP wrote:
>
> Bob;
>
> So then this makes sense to you? Why doesn't the handheld not show similar issues
with that same antenna behind my head? Lower output? Less of a radio over
all? So in the end, it very well could have been the close proximity of the antenna
for the A200?
>
>
> Chad
>
> --------
> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388567#388567
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | iPad and circuit design apps |
Happy Thanksgiving!
Occasionally in the App Store on my iPad I look at the Genius suggestions.
Today it suggested *iCircuit* (
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icircuit/id383359044?mt=8), an electronic
circuit design app. Much more than simple circuit diagramming, the app
simulates the operation of virtual circuits you put together.
I wonder if anybody here has tried this or similar apps, and would they be
useful (along with a basic textbook) to an electronic noobie to learn some
electronic circuit design?
Ralph Finch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
At 08:30 PM 11/21/2012, you wrote:
>
>Not Bob,
>But yes. 5-8 watts of output very close to headset, vs 150 milliwatt
>output of handheld.
>I've seen similar effects when headset was close to antenna coax and
>coax had bad shield connection.
Agreed. The few times I've encountered high levels
of RF in the cockpit, it proved to be a shield pulled
out of the clamp in an old style BNC connector with
a clamp-nut. This turned the coax into a long-wire
antenna that radiated the interior of the airplane.
In your case, the antenna was for all practical
purposes in the cockpit and no doubt both antenna
and feed line were functioning as advertised.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
So I'm wondering: my Nav antenna is a dipole type which i plan to locate right
above my head stretching from one side of the cockpit to the other (in the same
plane as the wing). So it will be only a foot or two from the headsets. Is this
a bad idea?
Sacha
Kitfox IV
On 22/nov/2012, at 02:14, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
>
>
> The A200 puts out just a little too much power to be so close to the actual pilots
head. Within 2 feet of headset. When I moved my head forward, the squeal
almost completely disappeared.
>
> Puzzled.....
>
> I'm not. The electret microphone in your
> mic-headset has some electromagic devices
> between the actual mic cartridge and the
> radio . . . seems our radios would STILL
> work fine with a 1940's carbon microphone
> connected to them.
>
> That little bit of electronics has to
> amplify MICROVOLTS off the microphone up
> to several hundreds of millivolts to make
> the transmitter happy. What's more, the
> electronics is fitted with some rather
> efficient antennas on both the goesinta
> and goesouta connections. I wish I'd
> known that your headset was so exposed to
> the antenna . . . that would have raised a
> big red flag.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
At 01:28 AM 11/22/2012, you wrote:
>
>So I'm wondering: my Nav antenna is a dipole type which i plan to
>locate right above my head stretching from one side of the cockpit
>to the other (in the same plane as the wing). So it will be only a
>foot or two from the headsets. Is this a bad idea?
>
>Sacha
>Kitfox IV
Receiving antennas do not radiate,
only transmit antennas: VHF Comm and Transponder
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
Doh! :) thank you.... I need to put "turn brain on before asking question" on my
checklist :)
On 22/nov/2012, at 15:10, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
wrote:
>
> At 01:28 AM 11/22/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> So I'm wondering: my Nav antenna is a dipole type which i plan to locate right
above my head stretching from one side of the cockpit to the other (in the
same plane as the wing). So it will be only a foot or two from the headsets. Is
this a bad idea?
>>
>> Sacha
>> Kitfox IV
>
> Receiving antennas do not radiate,
> only transmit antennas: VHF Comm and Transponder
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...? |
Dear Listers,
The number of List subscriptions are up by a fair amount this year, but support
during this year's Fund Raiser is substantially behind last year, and there's
only about a week left until the end of the Fund Raiser. I have always preferred
a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed
that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient
funds to keep the bills paid, other sources of income might be required
including some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal
Contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping this operation a
float.
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors!
The List Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624-1.html
There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue of Kitplanes
Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book available for
free download.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for building an
airplane.
I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for mentoring
and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: iPad and circuit design apps |
Not too specific for a typical aircraft panel, but is a freebie while
you search --
https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/#
Andy
On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Occasionally in the App Store on my iPad I look at the Genius
suggestions. Today it suggested iCircuit
(https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icircuit/id383359044?mt=8), an
electronic circuit design app. Much more than simple circuit
diagramming, the app simulates the operation of virtual circuits you put
together.
>
> I wonder if anybody here has tried this or similar apps, and would
they be useful (along with a basic textbook) to an electronic noobie to
learn some electronic circuit design?
>
> Ralph Finch
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: iPad and circuit design apps |
It's certainly easy to get started. Thanks for the link!
Charlie
On 11/24/2012 05:42 PM, Andy Hawes wrote:
> Not too specific for a typical aircraft panel, but is a freebie while
> you search --
>
> https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/#
>
> Andy
>
> On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
>> Happy Thanksgiving!
>>
>> Occasionally in the App Store on my iPad I look at the Genius
>> suggestions. Today it suggested *iCircuit*
>> (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icircuit/id383359044?mt=8), an
>> electronic circuit design app. Much more than simple circuit
>> diagramming, the app simulates the operation of virtual circuits you
>> put together.
>>
>> I wonder if anybody here has tried this or similar apps, and would
>> they be useful (along with a basic textbook) to an electronic noobie
>> to learn some electronic circuit design?
>>
>> Ralph Finch
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobsV35B(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
Kudos are well deserved!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
180-HP Pacer
Brookeridge, Illinois
In a message dated 11/24/2012 12:11:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
fransew(at)gmail.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"
http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624
-1.html
There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue
of Kitplanes Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book
available for free download.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for
building an airplane.
I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for
mentoring and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
| From: | Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net> |
here here -- I too appreciate all of his time, expertise, and patience. Thank
you for pointing this out --
Andy Hawes
On Nov 24, 2012, at 12:06 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624-1.html
> There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue of
Kitplanes Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book available
for free download.
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
> Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for building an
airplane.
> I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for mentoring
and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/24/12 |
Hear hear!
-----Original Message-----
>From: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
>Sent: Nov 25, 2012 7:57 AM
>To: AeroElectric-List Digest List
>Subject: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 11/24/12
>
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-11-24&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-11-24&Archive=AeroElectric
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 11/24/12: 5
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 10:10 AM - Credit given to Bob Nuckolls (user9253)
> 2. 03:43 PM - Re: iPad and circuit design apps (Andy Hawes)
> 3. 05:01 PM - Re: iPad and circuit design apps (Charlie England)
> 4. 05:16 PM - Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)
> 5. 09:11 PM - Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls (Andy Hawes)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls
>From: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
>
>
>http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624-1.html
>There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue of Kitplanes
>Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book available for
>free download.
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
>Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for building an
>airplane.
>I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for mentoring
>and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
>Joe
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>From: Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: iPad and circuit design apps
>
>Not too specific for a typical aircraft panel, but is a freebie while
>you search --
>
>https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/#
>
>Andy
>
>On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>
>> Happy Thanksgiving!
>>
>> Occasionally in the App Store on my iPad I look at the Genius
>suggestions. Today it suggested iCircuit
>(https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icircuit/id383359044?mt=8), an
>electronic circuit design app. Much more than simple circuit
>diagramming, the app simulates the operation of virtual circuits you put
>together.
>>
>> I wonder if anybody here has tried this or similar apps, and would
>they be useful (along with a basic textbook) to an electronic noobie to
>learn some electronic circuit design?
>>
>> Ralph Finch
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: iPad and circuit design apps
>
>It's certainly easy to get started. Thanks for the link!
>
>Charlie
>
>On 11/24/2012 05:42 PM, Andy Hawes wrote:
>> Not too specific for a typical aircraft panel, but is a freebie while
>> you search --
>>
>> https://www.circuitlab.com/editor/#
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
>>
>>> Happy Thanksgiving!
>>>
>>> Occasionally in the App Store on my iPad I look at the Genius
>>> suggestions. Today it suggested *iCircuit*
>>> (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icircuit/id383359044?mt=8), an
>>> electronic circuit design app. Much more than simple circuit
>>> diagramming, the app simulates the operation of virtual circuits you
>>> put together.
>>>
>>> I wonder if anybody here has tried this or similar apps, and would
>>> they be useful (along with a basic textbook) to an electronic noobie
>>> to learn some electronic circuit design?
>>>
>>> Ralph Finch
>>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls
>
>Kudos are well deserved!
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>180-HP Pacer
>Brookeridge, Illinois
>
>
>In a message dated 11/24/2012 12:11:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>fransew(at)gmail.com writes:
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"
>
>http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624
>-1.html
>There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue
>of Kitplanes Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book
>available for free download.
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
>Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for
>building an airplane.
>I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for
>mentoring and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
>Joe
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls
>From: Andy Hawes <andy717(at)comcast.net>
>
>
>here here -- I too appreciate all of his time, expertise, and patience. Thank
>you for pointing this out --
>
>Andy Hawes
>
>On Nov 24, 2012, at 12:06 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624-1.html
>> There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue of
>Kitplanes Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book available
>for free download.
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
>> Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for building
an
>airplane.
>> I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for mentoring
>and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric List.
>> Joe
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
| From: | "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com> |
I guessing that I'm going to need a bigger statuette!
Three cheers for Bob.
Chris & Denise Noble
Sonex 1372
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388916#388916
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com> |
| Subject: | Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
And cheers from Sunny South Africa! Thanks very much for all your input and
effort Bob- your arguments are well put and fun, as well as enlightening.
Most appreciated!
Johannesburg Jay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HH Enterprises
Supply and installation of top class water filters
for your best drinking experience!
Aircraft assembly, repair, wiring and avionics
Flight instruction
General and Electrical Engineering services
(NHD Elec Eng, BTech Elec Eng, GDE ELec Eng)
Great dinner parties and conversation
General adventuring, climbing, kayaking and living
Blog: www.rawhyde.wordpress.com
Cel: 083300 8675
Email: jay(at)horriblehyde.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: 24 November 2012 08:06 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls
http://www.kitplanes.com/issues/29_12/builder_spotlight/Ready_to_Build_20624
-1.html
There is an article by Reiff Lorenz on page 42 in the December 2012 issue of
Kitplanes Magazine giving credit to Bob Nuckolls for making his book
available for free download.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/pub/pub.html
Reiff Lorenz highly recommends reading the book in preparation for building
an airplane.
I have started this thread to honor Bob Nuckolls and to thank him for
mentoring and teaching and advising me and the readers of the AeoElectric
List.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388794#388794
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Which leads for Alcor EGT? |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Gents,
I have a mint condition Elcor Ekonomix instrument plus Alcor 9411 probe p/n
86245. I do not have the leads to connect the two!
The setup tests fine when the probe is connected directly to the gauge,
although I am not to sure about the calibration without the leads.
Can anyone tell me an easy way to set up 4 ft leads that would work please?
Bob Verwey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions Down By 23%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by roughly 23%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply
to cover my operating
costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists
and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid.
I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet
connection is a commercial-grade, dual T1 connection with public address space.
I also maintain a full
backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the
event of a server crash, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive
data could be restored
onto a new server in a matter of hours.
All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of
my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I
ask that members that
feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each
year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services.
If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive
gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Site, you
can use a credit card,
Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | "ivanallen" <Ivan_Allen(at)comcast.net> |
Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement issues also. I envision
building my instrument panel with a 12 v and ground buss mounted on the
back side. Only two power wires to remove instrument panel from aircraft.
(sensor wiring etc. exepted) Is this a good Idea? I have checked aircraft spruce
and B&C, and can not find a good 12v buss for this purpose. B& C ground buss
is nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just use a standard terminal strip with
jumpers for this? Two pictures attached as sort of a test for my first post.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389058#389058
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jumper_947.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/term_strip_564.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Raby" <ronr(at)advanceddesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
How about this product?
Regards
Ron Raby
http://bluesea.com/productline/188
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivanallen" <Ivan_Allen(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: The hardware side
>
>
> Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement issues
> also. I envision building my instrument panel with a 12 v and ground buss
> mounted on the back side. Only two power wires to remove instrument
> panel from aircraft. (sensor wiring etc. exepted) Is this a good Idea? I
> have checked aircraft spruce and B&C, and can not find a good 12v buss for
> this purpose. B& C ground buss is nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just
> use a standard terminal strip with jumpers for this? Two pictures
> attached as sort of a test for my first post.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389058#389058
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/jumper_947.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/term_strip_564.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which leads for Alcor EGT? |
At 06:48 AM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>Gents,
>I have a mint condition Elcor Ekonomix instrument plus Alcor 9411
>probe p/n 86245. I do not have the leads to connect the two!
>
>The setup tests fine when the probe is connected directly to the
>gauge, although I am not to sure about the calibration without the leads.
>
>Can anyone tell me an easy way to set up 4 ft leads that would work please?
According to this data sheet on Alcor's website
http://tinyurl.com/d4y7pdu
your probe is a type K device. You can fabricate
an type-K extension lead from the appropriate
wire but depending on your locale, it may
be hard to find. It should be crafted from stranded
type-K wire.
The factory offerings for extension cables
are ridiculously long for an SE aircraft
http://tinyurl.com/cj29577
You can order a small quanity of 20AWG stranded
K wire for $33 from Omega
http://tinyurl.com/2fpp8r
cut it to appropriate length and install PIDG
terminals to make the connections.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
At 12:33 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>
>Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement
>issues also. I envision building my instrument panel with a 12 v and
>ground buss mounted on the back side. Only two power wires to
>remove instrument panel from aircraft. (sensor wiring etc. exepted)
>Is this a good Idea? I have checked aircraft spruce and B&C, and
>can not find a good 12v buss for this purpose. B& C ground buss is
>nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just use a standard terminal strip
>with jumpers for this? Two pictures attached as sort of a test for
>my first post.
What kind of airplane? What compliment of
panel mounted electro-whizzies? What kind
of alternator/battery arrangement?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
The positive side would typically go thru some kind of "distribution panel"
such as a collection of circuit breakers and/or fuses.
Typical installations mount circuit breakers, evenly spaced, in a row and
the input sides of the breakers are tied together using a bussbar or wire
jumpers.
If breakers aren't your thing, there are some pretty cool automotive fuse
blocks that are bussed internally and have tab connectors for the load side.
They are compact, easy to use, and relatively inexpensive. A google search
will turn-up hundreds of them.
That's a pretty high-level survey. If you give us more detail, we can make
more specific recommendations.
Jeff Luckey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ivanallen
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 10:33
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: The hardware side
Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement issues also.
I envision building my instrument panel with a 12 v and ground buss mounted
on the back side. Only two power wires to remove instrument panel from
aircraft. (sensor wiring etc. exepted) Is this a good Idea? I have checked
aircraft spruce and B&C, and can not find a good 12v buss for this purpose.
B& C ground buss is nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just use a standard
terminal strip with jumpers for this? Two pictures attached as sort of a
test for my first post.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389058#389058
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jumper_947.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/term_strip_564.jpg
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
Hi Bob,
Over the weekend I managed to get everything together to hook up an old
Terra TX760D to a set of 'ipod' headphones. It all worked!!
The audio quality wasn't very good, but that is probably a function of
my power supply, breadboard wiring and poor antenna grounding, but the
headphones produced a reasonable noise. They had reasonable volume, from
quiet to too loud using the radio volume control. I used a 680 ohm 2W
resistor and paralleled the L & R headphone - their resistance was 30
ohms each channel on the multimeter.
Now I will build something into a project box with reasonable shielding
and try with my helmet in the aeroplane.
Thanks very much for your suggestion.
Peter
On 17/11/2012 00:45, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I emailed a Becker AR4201 spec sheet that lists the headphone output as,
> "at 13.75V nominal operating voltage >= 100mW at 600 ohm ... dropping
> to 30mW at 10.0V"
>
> Their comment is that their component supplier says,
>
> "14V nominal drive is much higher than any of our receivers are
> supposed to be driven at. Typical drive voltage is 0.1V which is 12dB
> below 10% THD. 14 V is 140 times this or about 30dB above 10% THD."
>
> These folks didn't understand what they read.
>
> Their .1 v (presumed RMS) for 12 db (1/4 voltage)
> below that which produces 10% total harmonic distortion
> (diaphragm rattle). All this says nothing about what
> you hear. I suspect that the 100 mv into one of those
> devices would be painful for a normal hearing person.
>
> Earbuds I have on hand measure about 20 ohms. Making
> them to some higher resistance presents some interesting
> trade offs. Higher resistance takes more turns of finer
> wire (hard). Lower resistance is fewer turns but lower
> sensitivity . . . but increased ability to deliver power
> from a device operating on a single AA cell.
>
> So if I were to take a WAG, the device you're considering
> is about 20 ohms resistance. 100 mv rms into 20 ohms
> is 1/2 milliwatt! That much power coupled right to the
> ear canal is probably really loud.
>
> I interpret the Becker spec to mean that when the bus voltage is
> 13.75V, the output power is at least 100mW into 600 ohm. And that
> means the headphones can expect to see 7.7v? Is that correct?
>
> Yes. The 'problem' is that we don't know what the real
> output impedance is for the headset audio port. It's
> PROBABLY pretty low . . . a hard connection to some
> form of audio amplifier chip. A chip powered at
> 14v cannot deliver more that 14v pk-pk, or 5 volts
> rms. So that 100 mw figure MIGHT be a peak value.
> One never knows for sure without measuring.
>
> In any case, your problem is no so much one of
> impedance matching for maximum transfer of power
> but one of attenuation that (1) avoids over load
> of Becker audio output chips and (2) keeps the
> vast majority of that 100 mW from being coupled
> to your grey matter.
>
> I was expecting the company to offer some kind of matching/attenuating
> box - but I guess this is beyond their capability ...
>
> Are we talking the same language here?
>
> No . . . in fact, we're not sure what language Becker
> is using either.
>
> If Vern Little is reading this and has any of his small amplifiers in
> a D-sub left on the shelf then I would really like one!
>
> I really do not know much about audio systems, if anyone can provide
> some advice I would be very grateful. There must be a simple way
> forward (surely ...).
>
> I'm 99% sure that you can experiment with a simple
> series resistor between the Becker output and the
> ear piece coil.
>
> Starting with a 620 ohm resistor loads the Becker at
> 640 ohms. No risk. 7.7 VRMS into 620 gives you 12
> mA RMS into the network. 12 ma across your 20
> ohm ear piece coil produces 250 millivolts . . .
> about 2.5 x that which the company claims some
> 'optimum' level of performance.
>
> So backing your volume control off probably gets
> things into the right church. Further fiddling
> with the resistor might be necessary to get into
> the right pew.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
| From: | "Reiff" <Reiff(at)Lorenz.com> |
Joe,
Thanks for mentioning my article in Kitplanes and for the well-deserved praise
for Bob!
After seeing your post and reading my article, Bob contacted me with additional
advice for the beginning homebuilder. This seems like as good a place as any
to summarize what he recommended:
1. He agreed that online forums were a great resource, and suggested that builders
delve into both make/model-specific forums as well as component/system-specific
forums. For example, someone considering building an RV-14 should plug into
the AeroElectric list and the aircraft-engine community as well as the RV-14
forum.
2. AC43-13 (which I suggested reading in my article) is outdated and the information
contained there is not reliable enough to be used in isolation. Builders
should check with an authority (online expert, A&P, builders group, etc.) before
relying on the FAA Advisory Circular. This publication is being updated next
year, so hopefully it will improve sometime soon.
If I get a chance to do a follow-up article, I'll include these suggestions.
Reiff Lorenz, Dayton, Ohio
Velocity XL-RG Still working on fiberglass; no wiring, yet!
PS Anyone recognize the background in the artwork that went with the AeroElectric
Connection recommendation in the Kitplanes article?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389071#389071
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
At 02:57 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>Over the weekend I managed to get everything together to hook up an
>old Terra TX760D to a set of 'ipod' headphones. It all worked!!
>
>The audio quality wasn't very good, but that is probably a function
>of my power supply, breadboard wiring and poor antenna grounding,
>but the headphones produced a reasonable noise. They had reasonable
>volume, from quiet to too loud using the radio volume control. I
>used a 680 ohm 2W resistor and paralleled the L & R headphone -
>their resistance was 30 ohms each channel on the multimeter.
Paralleled????? The resistor would go in SERIES with each
headset driver. That 30 ohm load might account for a
less than optimal audio quality . . . you may be overloading
the audio output amplifier in the radio.
>Now I will build something into a project box with reasonable
>shielding and try with my helmet in the aeroplane.
It might not warrant a box. Power levels you're
working with are a handful of milliwatts. I think
I'd consider cutting into the headset cord, splicing
1/4w resistors tack soldered in series with each
'ear piece' and covering in heat shrink. Stagger
the resistors along the cord so that you can heat-shrink
each one and then put another shrink over the whole.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
At 03:13 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
Welcome aboard sir!
My comments to Reiff were based on Earl Lawrence's
activities on behalf of the FAA back in July of 1996
when a draft copy of the proposed change to AC43-13
was shared with EAA.
Earl split up the sections and sent them out to various
of his subject matter experts. Chapter 11 on electrical
systems was sprinkled with toe-stubbers. I haven't
been able to dig up my original response . . . but
Earl got most of my work along with that of many others
into his letter which you can read here.
http://tinyurl.com/c5rm43k
While AC43-13 contains much accurate information, the
process for weeding out inaccuracies is arduous
and lethargic. Hence my suggestion that Forums
populated with been-there-done-that techno-wiennies
tend to be lower risk than the work product of
bureaucratic tech writers.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
I suspect what he is saying is that he paralleled the L&R of the headphone and
inserted the 680 ohm resistor in series
with that.
Dick Tasker
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 02:57 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Over the weekend I managed to get everything together to hook up an old Terra
TX760D to a set of 'ipod' headphones.
>> It all worked!!
>>
>> The audio quality wasn't very good, but that is probably a function of my power
supply, breadboard wiring and poor
>> antenna grounding, but the headphones produced a reasonable noise. They had
reasonable volume, from quiet to too loud
>> using the radio volume control. I used a 680 ohm 2W resistor and paralleled
the L & R headphone - their resistance
>> was 30 ohms each channel on the multimeter.
>
> Paralleled????? The resistor would go in SERIES with each
> headset driver. That 30 ohm load might account for a
> less than optimal audio quality . . . you may be overloading
> the audio output amplifier in the radio.
>
>> Now I will build something into a project box with reasonable shielding and
try with my helmet in the aeroplane.
>
> It might not warrant a box. Power levels you're
> working with are a handful of milliwatts. I think
> I'd consider cutting into the headset cord, splicing
> 1/4w resistors tack soldered in series with each
> 'ear piece' and covering in heat shrink. Stagger
> the resistors along the cord so that you can heat-shrink
> each one and then put another shrink over the whole.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
My comment at bottom.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 15:31
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls
At 03:13 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
Welcome aboard sir!
My comments to Reiff were based on Earl Lawrence's
activities on behalf of the FAA back in July of 1996
when a draft copy of the proposed change to AC43-13
was shared with EAA.
Earl split up the sections and sent them out to various
of his subject matter experts. Chapter 11 on electrical
systems was sprinkled with toe-stubbers. I haven't
been able to dig up my original response . . . but
Earl got most of my work along with that of many others
into his letter which you can read here.
http://tinyurl.com/c5rm43k
While AC43-13 contains much accurate information, the
process for weeding out inaccuracies is arduous
and lethargic. Hence my suggestion that Forums
populated with been-there-done-that techno-wiennies
tend to be lower risk than the work product of
bureaucratic tech writers.
[Luckey] - Bob, I believe that's techno-weenies. You may want to
update your spell-checker accordingly ;)
Bob . . .
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The hardware side |
| From: | "ivanallen" <Ivan_Allen(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks all for the quick responses. I think I was having a senior moment, but for
two days? That's just not right.
For some reason I was fixated on buss bars. I really like fuses and was planning
on using them anyway. Problem solved. (2) 8 fuse blocks will easily do my main
and essential buses. I'm using drawing z-11 as a guide.
Bob, as to the aircraft, it is an avid. Two place tube and fabric with a metal
firewall. It will have just the basic round guages, an EIS-4000 engine monitor,
and a single panel mount radio and a transponder. Also Whelen strobe and
nav lights wing tips only. Power supply for the strobes behind the baggage compartment.
Fuel is gravity feed only. Electrical will be single alternator 60
amps or less. The only question I have left after all the good advice is where
to mount that main and essential bus. I would prefer access to the fuses without
pulling my cowling if possible. Firewall access is not great on this aircraft.
All thoughts welcomed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389082#389082
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Which leads for Alcor EGT? |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Much obliged to you, Sir!
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 26 November 2012 21:07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
>
> At 06:48 AM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>
>> Gents,
>> I have a mint condition Elcor Ekonomix instrument plus Alcor 9411 probe
>> p/n 86245. I do not have the leads to connect the two!
>>
>> The setup tests fine when the probe is connected directly to the gauge,
>> although I am not to sure about the calibration without the leads.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me an easy way to set up 4 ft leads that would work
>> please?
>>
>
> According to this data sheet on Alcor's website
>
> http://tinyurl.com/d4y7pdu
>
> your probe is a type K device. You can fabricate
> an type-K extension lead from the appropriate
> wire but depending on your locale, it may
> be hard to find. It should be crafted from stranded
> type-K wire.
>
> The factory offerings for extension cables
> are ridiculously long for an SE aircraft
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cj29577
>
> You can order a small quanity of 20AWG stranded
> K wire for $33 from Omega
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2fpp8r
>
> cut it to appropriate length and install PIDG
> terminals to make the connections.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
At 05:59 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>I suspect what he is saying is that he paralleled the L&R of the
>headphone and inserted the 680 ohm resistor in series with that.
Aha! But of course . . . yet another example of
how poorly studied words can be the foundation
for a equally poor assessment of fact. Also
a good example of why it's a good thing
to have more than one pair of eyes doing the
reading.
Good call sir!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Credit given to Bob Nuckolls |
>
>[Luckey] ' Bob, I believe that=92s techno-weenies. You may want to
>update your spell-checker accordingly ;)
Yeah . . . I'm not sure how one does that
for Eudora. I'll have to look into that.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming |
in December!
Dear Listers,
There's just a couple more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I
post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the
Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LED strip project |
Bob,
How's this project going? I'm interested!
Don
Bob stated on 8-1-12:
I'm going to be using about 80 feet of this product in
my kitchen to put double rows of ceiling accent lighting high up,
double rows to replace recessed canister lights over the
counters and a third twin-row installation under the cabinets
for work lighting. The double-rows will be wired in series to run
off 24 volt supplies in the walls. My present lighting
is fraught with hot-spots from 11 different fixtures with
no accent lighting on a budget of about 700 watts. The working
end of my kitchen will be nicely lighted for both appearance
and working illumination on a power budget of about 175
watts total. This technique produces very wide-angle
illumination that is virtually shadow free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LED strip project |
At 02:27 PM 11/27/2012, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>How's this project going? I'm interested!
>Don
>
No real fast. End-of-year commitments and all . . .
I have acquired some Formica counter top material
which I cut into 1" wide strips. I plan to build
assemblies of strip lamps onto these strips.
I need five L-shaped assemblies that take the lighting
around corners. If these can be pre-assembled
into a rigid shape for both wiring and spacing
of the led-strips, they'll be easier to install
on the bottoms of the cabinets. They'll also
be easier to remove for maintenance such as
painting and some not too distant remodeling
in the plans.
When I get ready to put them together and
installed, I'll take photos of the process and
post them to the website.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Not ready for prime time switches . . . |
The open source Wig Wag project is moving along.
Many of you will recall that Greg McHugh took
a first pass at the software and Paul Fisher
recently sent me the second pass.
I re-configured the boards to improve ease
of manufacturing. I've stuffed a new board and
it's ready for Paul's software.
I sent Paul the first bench test fixture for
this configuration so I started to build another
one for myself. I'd ordered a fist full of Hong Kong
switches few weeks ago to make sure I had inventory
for test fixtures.
Emacs!
Started to solder wires to them and was dismayed to
see the terminals "move" under the heat and pressure
of normal soldering processes. Seems the plastic
for this batch of switches is not ready for prime
time.
Fortunately, I've got plenty of US switches and
the project is moving forward. More data later
tonight.
I tried the HK switches a few years ago and didn't
even try to mount and solder. They were mechanically
un-satisfactory. This latest batch is MUCH better
mechanically but I'm going back into the wait and
see mode. If anyone identifies an HK product of
eBay or some such that hangs together better, please
let the List know . . . I'll do likewise.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring handheld scanner into intercom |
| From: | "geoffwinter" <winter.geoff(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, the airfield I fly out of has a UHF-only ATIS which I currently monitor via
a handheld scanner with a 3-conductor 1/8" 8 output (Icom IC-R5). I use bud-style
earphones and simply put one of the ear pieces into my ear underneath my
headset when I need to hear the scanner. Not exactly the most convenient solution,
so what I'd like to do is wire in the output from the scanner directly
into the output from my KY97A comm radio so that both are permanently going into
my headset. That way, all I need to do is turn on the scanner to hear it,
then turn it off when finished. I'm guessing I need to match the impedances
to make this work - I understand the standard David Clarke headset is usually
100 ohm? Could anyone please advise what (electrically) I need to do to make
this work? Apologies for being a complete avionics/electrical numpty!
Regards
Geoff, NSW AUS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389239#389239
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring handheld scanner into intercom |
Geoff,
I claim no knowledge of audio connections but I would like to add to that a related
issue with my Icom. I have a transceiver model (forgot which 1), which accepts
and adapter plug for my headphones. If needed I can plug into the adapter
and listen to whatever. The problem I have is that whenever I have the Icom
on and engine is running, the noise level sets off the auto-mic and places into
transceiver mode. Regardless of how I set the sensitivity, it just doesn't cooperate.
In manual mode the mic picks up lots of background and makes my transmission
unrecognizable (when flying). I think the designers build these things
primarily with ground crew in mind.
I too would like to add some sort of adapter to my AUX option on the panel such that I could plug directly in and bypass the handheld mic. I've not asked my cable guys (http://www.approachfaststack.com/), but I'm sure they have a solution (or will make 1). You'll need to give up a $100 bucks or so for a result, but it will work.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of geoffwinter
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 12:05 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring handheld scanner into intercom
Hi, the airfield I fly out of has a UHF-only ATIS which I currently monitor via
a handheld scanner with a 3-conductor 1/8" 8 output (Icom IC-R5). I use bud-style
earphones and simply put one of the ear pieces into my ear underneath my
headset when I need to hear the scanner. Not exactly the most convenient solution,
so what I'd like to do is wire in the output from the scanner directly
into the output from my KY97A comm radio so that both are permanently going into
my headset. That way, all I need to do is turn on the scanner to hear it,
then turn it off when finished. I'm guessing I need to match the impedances
to make this work - I understand the standard David Clarke headset is usually
100 ohm? Could anyone please advise what (electrically) I need to do to make
this work? Apologies for being a complete avionics/electrical numpty!
Regards
Geoff, NSW AUS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389239#389239
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VDO Fuel gauge wild reading... |
| From: | "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> |
Hello all...
Got another little "issue". I've got the 912 gauges in my 601XL-B. I've got a single
fuel gauge with a left/right tank switch. When flipped to the right tank,
the needle slowly winds its way past 1/1. Bad ground? Bad sender? It's a top
mounted sending unit, but that is the extent of my knowledge on this subject.
If it was a bad ground, would the needle not slam itself to its full swing past
full? The fact it takes a bit has me wondering.
Thanks in advance!
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389255#389255
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution |
Today!
There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser.
Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and
make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors!
Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by sending your personal check to:
Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support of these List services!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VDO Fuel gauge wild reading... |
At 08:56 AM 11/28/2012, you wrote:
>
>Hello all...
>
>Got another little "issue". I've got the 912 gauges in my 601XL-B.
>I've got a single fuel gauge with a left/right tank switch. When
>flipped to the right tank, the needle slowly winds its way past 1/1.
>Bad ground? Bad sender? It's a top mounted sending unit, but that is
>the extent of my knowledge on this subject. If it was a bad ground,
>would the needle not slam itself to its full swing past full? The
>fact it takes a bit has me wondering.
Get out your ohmmeter and find the DIFFERENCE
between the two senders. The slow motion of the
gauge is not uncommon. At Cessna back in the 60's
we 'dopped' the pivots on Stewart Warner gauge
clusters with a drop of high viscosity silicon
oil. This didn't affect accuracy but it stopped
needle jitter due to mechanical and/or electrical
stimulus.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VDO Fuel gauge wild reading... |
| From: | "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> |
Difference? Well, the tanks are full, so the only thing I could establish MAYBE,
is the current resistance at the gauge for each of the senders.
Is that what you mean?
Thanks Bob!
Chad
--------
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389373#389373
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VDO Fuel gauge wild reading... |
At 05:28 PM 11/28/2012, you wrote:
>
>Difference? Well, the tanks are full, so the only thing I could
>establish MAYBE, is the current resistance at the gauge for each of
>the senders.
>
>Is that what you mean?
Sure. You have one side that reads
right, the other one wrong. The only
difference is their position on the
selector switch. So in comparing the two
sides with each other, one of them has
a loose connection, bad sender resistance,
or perhaps the switch itself is bad.
Having one side that works and one that
doesn't really narrows down the possibilities
and offers the opportunity for comparative
analysis.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
---------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Just Two Days Left! - Still Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
couple of weeks I have received some more really nice comments from members
on what the Lists have meant to them. I have included a few more of them below.
Please read over the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists
and the support and camaraderie you have found here.
We are still behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really
want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it take
resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep the
operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that keeps
things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I have been flying my Pietenpol for a month now and am
enjoying the fruits of ten hard years of work. I seriously
doubt it would ever have been finished but for the help,
encouragement and friendships I've received and made through
the Pietenpol list.
Douwe B
Hey-Long time subscriber, zero-time contributor. Just a
note of thanks. This is first time I have the resources to
contribute. Thanks for carrying a lightweight for years and
a special thanks for your time and effort.
Billy R
My 601 hd is flying with the help with the listers.
Noel G
A very useful facility.
Graeme B
..great site!
Robert C
Great Pietenpol site!
Don Y
Not active but always interested in keeping up. Enjoy
when I can.
Richard R
Dave and Tim from Aircrafters just want to reiterate our
thanks for hosting the lists.
Tim F.
I don't have a lot to give at this time of year, but I
hope my contribution helps none the less. I really enjoy
the message board.
Mark C
Thanks to your continued work on maintaining these lists.
Ralph C
The lists and the various contributors have been a great
help while I was building and also now that I'm flying.
Albert G
Very helpful tools for the homebuilder.
Vaughn T
We appreciate your great help!
Richard H
Many of our customers have expressed to us that you
provide them with an invaluable service - and we agree!
Bill B
I Fly a Quicksilver GT400 but love to read what the Kolb
boys have to say and it was on your list that I found out
about the Yamaha product Ring Free,, now called engine med,
that shit works.. no carbon in my rings or any to speak of
with the use of the Yamaha product with a premix 503 with
over 300 hrs of use.. thanks to your Kolb bulletin board.
Robert B
You are providing a valuable service that helps a lot of
people through information sharing. When I built my
Pietenpol over 40 years ago we were largely on our own,
working without a resource like this list.
Graham H
Thanks for the opportunity to link us all, keep the good work!
Peter B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind |
the panel
Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
task and how the testing is done.
BillB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
does it appear and on which radio? Have you
stepped through the diagnostics described in
the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
is the victim?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin
coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
helps.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
leaks behind the panel
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
does it appear and on which radio? Have you
stepped through the diagnostics described in
the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
is the victim?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Mr. Bill,
-
If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w
ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with
your power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent
reason, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit.- You eith
er have an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in
your power system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient volta
ge to stay on.
-
If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that yo
u grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug
hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance.- If it canno
t be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is
in order, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
-
Good luck to you and your airplane.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry wrote:
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF le
aks behind the panel
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
outh.net>
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed.- I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garm
in
coax that is causing this shutdown.- I could be wrong because I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason.- I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
helps.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L
.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
leaks behind the panel
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
- - What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
- - does it appear and on which radio? Have you
- - stepped through the diagnostics described in
- - the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
- - the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
- - is the victim?
---Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
At 04:49 PM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin
coax that is causing this shutdown.
Reasonable hypothesis. What kind of airplane and where
is your comm antenna located?
Have you checked SWR on the comm antenna?
I could be wrong because I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
helps.
Interesting experiment. Coax cables with LOW SWR don't
'leak' If a substitute coax DOES help, it's more likely
that you've got a poorly fabricated coax.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
It CAN be interesting . . . been there, done that . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
At 06:04 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Mr. Bill,
>
>If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting
>off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
>everything to do with your power system. If the transponder
>sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the
>power system being the culprit. You either have an intermittent
>connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your power system
>such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on.
>
>If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest
>that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage
>measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high
>impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a
>thorough analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking
>at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>
>Good luck to you and your airplane.
>
>Henador Titzoff
>
>--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
>From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff"
>for RF leaks behind the panel
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>
><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
>I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
>sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
>mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin
>coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had
>occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
>wanted to check for a leak.
>
>I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
>bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
>helps.
>
>The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>
>Bill B
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
>To:
><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
>leaks behind the panel
>
><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
> ><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsout
> h.net>bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
> >task and how the testing is done.
> >
> >BillB
>
> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
> stepped through the diagnostics described in
> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
> is the victim?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel pressure
reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
Below is what I did thus far.
First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna which
is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside the
cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or antenna,
anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with the
PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back of
the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box by
about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the left
fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke around
the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the wires
go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT also
but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel pressure
to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And also
check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I think
I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
-Chris Lucas
N919AR
RV-10 in first conditional inspection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Wildman" <dick(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Hello;
I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble
shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was
the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight
but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would
shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never had the
radios power off again in flight again.
Dick Wildman
----- Original Message -----
From: Henador Titzoff
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for
RF leaks behind the panel
Mr. Bill,
If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items
"shutting off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
everything to do with your power system. If the transponder sometimes
shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the power system
being the culprit. You either have an intermittent connection or a
significant impedance somewhere in your power system such that it
deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on.
If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I
suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage
measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high
impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough
analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking at each node
to verify it is airworthy.
Good luck to you and your airplane.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry
wrote:
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
"Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150
moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the
Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak
from the Garmin
coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because
I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent
reason. I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to
the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order
to see if that
helps.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
"Sniff" for RF
leaks behind the panel
III"
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to
accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
does it appear and on which radio? Have you
stepped through the diagnostics described in
the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
is the victim?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when
on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens
when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies.
I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you
have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group
what specs I need when I buy it.
I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid
didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor
pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to
use?
Thanks,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris wrote:
>
>
> As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel
pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
>
> Below is what I did thus far.
>
> First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna
which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside
the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or
antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with
the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
>
> The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back
of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box
by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the
left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
>
> The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
>
> The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke
around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the
wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT
also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel
pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And
also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
> Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I
think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
>
> -Chris Lucas
> N919AR
> RV-10 in first conditional inspection
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground side o
f the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp somewhere. Get in th
ere and start tugging on wires near crimped connectors while monitoring the a
vionics.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble shooti
ng I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was the main f
eed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight but not really t
ight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would shut down in flight.
I tightened the connection and never had the radios power off again in flig
ht again.
>
> Dick Wildman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henador Titzoff
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l
eaks behind the panel
>
> Mr. Bill,
>
> If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w
ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with y
our power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent rea
son, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit. You either hav
e an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your po
wer system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to st
ay on.
>
> If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that y
ou grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug
hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance. If it cannot b
e duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in o
rder, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>
> Good luck to you and your airplane.
>
> Henador Titzoff
>
> --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l
eaks behind the panel
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>
south.net>
>
> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
> sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
> mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmi
n
> coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had
> occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
> wanted to check for a leak.
>
> I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
> bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if tha
t
> helps.
>
> The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L
.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
> leaks behind the panel
>
>
>
> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
> >task and how the testing is done.
> >
> >BillB
>
> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
> stepped through the diagnostics described in
> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
> is the victim?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again;
number 49 actually! But it also means that its that last official day of
the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up
one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
the power transistors that control lamps says we
can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
lamps too.
The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure
Emacs!
I've got it running on the bench right now flashing
55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple-
flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or
Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag.
I'm working on the installation documents and hope to
publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing
the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under
the open source philosophy.
The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
Down = OFF
Mid = Taxi
Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
Moving directly from OFF to full up
will get you Wig Wag operations.
A jumper in the plug will choose either single
or triple-flash operation.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might try that too
at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had for ferrite and saw them
in the archives on RF interference. I guess some calcualtions could be made
to figure out the optimum inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see
what happen and got some results.
-Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when
on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens
when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies.
I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you
have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group
what specs I need when I buy it.
I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid
didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor
pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to
use?
Thanks,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris wrote:
>
>
> As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel
pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
>
> Below is what I did thus far.
>
> First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna
which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside
the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or
antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with
the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
>
> The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back
of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box
by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the
left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
>
> The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
>
> The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke
around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the
wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT
also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel
pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And
also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
> Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I
think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
>
> -Chris Lucas
> N919AR
> RV-10 in first conditional inspection
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
At 12:47 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
>prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
>the power transistors that control lamps says we
>can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
>lamps too.
Here's a video of the POC board driving 55w
halogen lamps in a triple-flash mode.
http://tinyurl.com/co3zxaq
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
At 10:25 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only
>occurs when on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies
>above 130 MHz, and happens when I key either the 430W or Icom A210
>on those upper frequencies.
> I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split
> ferrite that you have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and
> was about to ask the group what specs I need when I buy it.
>I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF
>since the torrid didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub
>between the fuel sensor pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this
>might work and if so what cap to use?
The value of such capacitors is not so critical
as their construction. A few days ago I published
a capacitors-in-the-connector fix that I crafted
on a Hawker 800 a few years back. See http://tinyurl.com/dxeuj6b
and scroll down to bottom for pictures.
Those capacitor were monolythic ceramics, 0.1 uF
at 50 volts. But probably any value between 0.01
and 0.47 would have worked. What we're interested
in is tiny size so that they can make short lead
connection to the pin and low inductance characteristics
for which the monolythic construction is noted.
Radio Shack used to stock a 0.1 uf cerami (about
1.5 times size of a paper match head). Here's an
exemplar part
http://tinyurl.com/bsk27pw
Ferrites are a whole other ball game. They tend
to improve on an RFI problem with a combination
of two characteristics. (1) they add a lumped
inductance into the wire or wires that are coupling
the energy into the victim (or out of the antagonist).
(2) Ferrites designed for RFI mitigation are TERRIBLE
transformer cores. I.e. they're designed to be
very lossy at the frequencies of interest. By lossy,
we mean that energy coupled into the core is converted
to heat.
BOTH effects are enhanced by the capacitor that
lowers the parallel impedance against which the
series impedance of the ferrite can work. The BEST
ferrite in the world does nothing if the downstream
path to the victim is a high impedance at the
frequency of interest.
This is why the odds are so long that ferrites
alone will fix a problem. The problem would not
have existed had the victim's i/o leads been
designed for that environment in the first place.
So the best moves call for capacitors first with
ferrites stacked on top.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
At 12:53 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might
>try that too at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had
>for ferrite and saw them in the archives on RF interference. I guess
>some calcualtions could be made to figure out the optimum
>inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see what happen and
>got some results.
This is not a calculable scenario since you
don't have hard data as to the degree of attenuation
necessary for acceptable results. This is very
much a cut-n-try endeavor.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Very possibly a poor shield connection on the antenna coax. Long time
ago I had similar problems, found my radio worked fine in another
aircraft, so looked hard and found a cold solder joint where shield had
been soldered on antenna coax at connection to radio.
On 11/30/2012 9:34 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
> I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground
> side of the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp
> somewhere. Get in there and start tugging on wires near crimped
> connectors while monitoring the avionics.
> Tim
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" > wrote:
>
>> Hello;
>> I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble
>> shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It
>> was the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug
>> tight but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and
>> Comm would shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never
>> had the radios power off again in flight again.
>> Dick Wildman
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Henador Titzoff
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
>>
>> Mr. Bill,
>> If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting
>> off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
>> everything to do with your power system. If the transponder
>> sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to
>> the power system being the culprit. You either have an
>> intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in
>> your power system such that it deprives the three units of
>> sufficient voltage to stay on.
>> If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I
>> suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make
>> voltage measurements throughout the affected areas in order to
>> find the high impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the
>> ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in order,
>> along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>> Good luck to you and your airplane.
>>
>> Henador Titzoff
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry /> >/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net
>> >
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>>
>> Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>>
>> > <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>
>>
>> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150
>> moving map, and
>> sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the
>> Garmin DNS 430W
>> mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak
>> from the Garmin
>> coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because
>> I have had
>> occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent
>> reason. I just
>> wanted to check for a leak.
>>
>> I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight
>> to the antenna
>> bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order
>> to see if that
>> helps.
>>
>> The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>>
>> Bill B
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Robert L.
>> Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF
>> leaks behind the panel
>>
>> III"
>> > <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
>>
>> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>> >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>
>> >
>> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to
>> accomplish this
>> >task and how the testing is done.
>> >
>> >BillB
>>
>> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
>> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
>> stepped through the diagnostics described in
>> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
>> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
>> is the victim?
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
Greetings all,
I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch for
an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it.
I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time
dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps it
is something that could be developed by this list.
I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control.
I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is the
way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just thought I'd
take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/30/2012 12:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
> prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
> the power transistors that control lamps says we
> can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
> lamps too.
>
> The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure
=================Deleted image to allow reply.==============
>
> I've got it running on the bench right now flashing
> 55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple-
> flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or
> Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag.
>
> I'm working on the installation documents and hope to
> publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing
> the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under
> the open source philosophy.
>
> The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
> a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
>
> Down = OFF
>
> Mid = Taxi
>
> Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
>
> Moving directly from OFF to full up
> will get you Wig Wag operations.
>
> A jumper in the plug will choose either single
> or triple-flash operation.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch
>for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it.
Sure.
----- WIG/WAG -----
LANDING TAXI
O O
OFF OFF
Would be pretty graphic for a pair
of switches.
> I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the
> time dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists,
> perhaps it is something that could be developed by this list.
>
>I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function
>control. I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise
>this is the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I
>just thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
and you've got wig-wag.
You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run
all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use
switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features
to produce what ever switch functionality you wish.
The installation options will describe these features
in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative
to the integration snafu that we encountered with the
automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing
lights. But as we pondered the features available in
software and how much hardware would fit into the
stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one-
size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of
control options.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
My question was how do you placard the single switch operation:
The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
Down = OFF
Mid = Taxi
Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
**************** OR **********************
Moving directly from OFF to full up
will get you Wig Wag operations.
Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot looking
at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the same switch
position represents a different function depending on the time between
changing of switch positions?
It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
and you've got wig-wag.
I suppose you could placard it "RTFM" but that seems less than optimal.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/30/2012 04:39 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch
>> for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't
>> do it.
>
> Sure.
>
> ----- WIG/WAG -----
> LANDING TAXI
>
> O O
>
> OFF OFF
>
> Would be pretty graphic for a pair
> of switches.
>
>> I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time
>> dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps
>> it is something that could be developed by this list.
>>
>> I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control.
>> I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is
>> the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just
>> thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
>
> It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
> separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
> on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
> second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
> side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
> and you've got wig-wag.
>
> You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run
> all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use
> switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features
> to produce what ever switch functionality you wish.
>
> The installation options will describe these features
> in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative
> to the integration snafu that we encountered with the
> automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing
> lights. But as we pondered the features available in
> software and how much hardware would fit into the
> stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one-
> size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of
> control options.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
>
>Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot
>looking at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the
>same switch position represents a different function depending on
>the time between changing of switch positions?
There are things about some airplanes that
one finds out by reading a POH . . . or getting
checked out by a pilot with experience with
the airplane. The J-3 I owned was hard
to get started in cold weather unless you
knew the 'trick'. I would never have known
about it if the guy who checked me out in it
hadn't told me how to do it. Some owners
have 'hidden' battery master or starter
switches to discourage theft.
The time dependent control has some appeal
for the single switch control option which
is indeed a new thing. Until this new feature
became a reality, it was pretty common to
have one switch per lamp and some combination
of positions for individual operation +
wig-wag mode.
Emacs!
But there's probably no clear
placarding to describe this operation. I'll
bet owner of the airplane won't have any problem
with it should he choose to use a single switch
option.
If both lights are aimed the same, then perhaps
a separate taxi position isn't needed. You
could have a single three position switch that
would control both lights on at the same time
or wig-wag. Probably the only time you'd have
a separate taxi light is with a tail dragger
where taxi lights are usually aimed lower for
good illumination on the ground.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | BATTERY TENDERS AGAIN |
| From: | bob noffs <icubob(at)gmail.com> |
hi all,
there has been plenty written the past few years about these, especially
the schumacher 13something. 3 or 4 years ago i bought 5 of these online for
my plane and other toys. usual charge on the battery ended up at around
13.1-13.3 volts. now i find at least 2 won't charge above 12.7 volts. not a
bad battery as another charger will bring up the voltage. keep an eye out
or you may not get something started when the time comes.
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BATTERY TENDERS AGAIN |
At 07:18 AM 12/1/2012, you wrote:
>hi all,
> there has been plenty written the past few years about these,
> especially the schumacher 13something. 3 or 4 years ago i bought 5
> of these online for my plane and other toys. usual charge on the
> battery ended up at around 13.1-13.3 volts. now i find at least 2
> won't charge above 12.7 volts. not a bad battery as another charger
> will bring up the voltage. keep an eye out or you may not get
> something started when the time comes.
> bob noffs
If you're going to trash these, I'd pay postage
to have them . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Well, I bought a Metcal iron on ebay, model # SP-PW1-10. It came with a
rather blunt tip, good for heavy gauge stuff but unusable for circuit
boards, etc. Unfortunately, searching the Metcal site for this model
iron doesn't yield any info. Anyone know what series tips fit it? The
tip (and the connector on the wand cable) I have is (are) 2-pin style
(some internet lore suggests that there are basically 2 style connectors
& tips for this brand, but I can't find any info on the Metcal site to
tell which series numbers are the 2-pin style.)
Thanks,
Charlie
(finally moving on from the Ungar & Weller stations of my previous career)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metcal tips? |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
That's the SP200. See: www.okinternational.com/product_soldering/sp200
The Metcal (OKI) has numbers for the set, the supply, each accessory, etc. but
you only have to figure it out once, then you can buy tips on ebay.
The SP200 uses SSC tips. Use the Metcal info above to select what you want then
grab them off ebay (there are 25 now listed). Set you Ebay personal shopper to
notify you when they come up.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389691#389691
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metcal tips? |
On 12/01/2012 08:09 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
> That's the SP200. See: www.okinternational.com/product_soldering/sp200
>
> The Metcal (OKI) has numbers for the set, the supply, each accessory, etc. but
you only have to figure it out once, then you can buy tips on ebay.
>
> The SP200 uses SSC tips. Use the Metcal info above to select what you want then
grab them off ebay (there are 25 now listed). Set you Ebay personal shopper
to notify you when they come up.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
Many thanks, Eric; I'll peruse the listings.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | current limiting an alternator |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Listers,
Is it economically and relatively simple to limit charging current from an
alternator in a 12v system? The automotive alternators have relatively high
initial output and looking at my small electrical loads, I don't see the
need for a massive battery...or have I got it all wrong??
Bob Verwey
IO470 Bonanza A35 ZU-DLW
V6 Chevy Safari ZU-AJF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: current limiting an alternator |
At 02:26 AM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
Listers,
Is it economically and relatively simple to limit charging current
from an alternator in a 12v system? The automotive alternators have
relatively high initial output and looking at my small electrical
loads, I don't see the need for a massive battery...or have I got it
all wrong??
While an alternator has the CAPABILITY of delivering
energy at relatively high rates, it can do so only
if the LOAD is willing to accept it based on
VOLTAGE DIFFERENTIALS and total loop resistance.
When you hook an energy consumer across the bus,
the current it requires is relatively constant and
only slightly dependent on bus voltage. But an
energy storage device (battery) may present a
load to the bus that is initially several volts
lower than the bus voltage set point.
Now, you have the POTENTIAL for some serious
currents to flow but even that's limited by the
internal resistance of the battery. Intuitively
one sees a potential hazard to, let us say, a 2 a.h.
SLVA battery being totally discharged and then connected
across a bus capable of delivering 40+ amps
at normal bus voltages. Indeed, the itty-bitty
battery's acceptance will 'spike' on initial
connection but probably no where near 40 amps
and it will fall rapidly. The risk to the battery
is not so much from 'hammering energy into a
chemical conversion'; the greatest potential
for damage is from heating of the internals
as a result of I(squared) x R watts being
dissipated within the small mass. This is
made worse by the fact that the dissipation
is not necessarily spread evenly throughout
the battery's chemistry.
The battery will not necessarily drown
upon experiencing its first 'drink from the
firehose' but a series of such events will
chip away at battery performance and severely
shorten its potential service life.
It would help to know more about your design
goals. What size battery are you wanting to
use? Is this battery going to be your only
source of energy during failure of the boss-
hog alternator? Have you established endurance
goals for alternator-out operations? Aside
from engine cranking, ENDURANCE goals are the
big driver of battery size. Can you give
us more numbers as to size of battery you
want to use and how this battery fits into
your consideration for a comfortable Plan-B
termination of flight after an alternator
failure?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: current limiting an alternator |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Bob,
As usual, you have put much more thought into your answer than I did into
my question!
My craft is powered by a Chevy V6 with a single aftermarket ignition coil,
specifically designed for "high vibration environments". My endurance goals
for alternator-out operations would be 30 minutes, as I will be strictly
day VFR, and with a cruise speed of 100 knots I will have some options.
Electrical loads are the usual ignition system, 2 comms, GPS, landing
light, but really the very basics required. No fuel pump, high wing with
carb. I had the H35 battery in mind, same as in the Bonanza.
I am not considering an endurance bus.
Bob Verwey
IO470 Bonanza A35 ZU-DLW
V6 Chevy Safari ZU-AJF
On 4 December 2012 16:33, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
>
> At 02:26 AM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
> Listers,
>
> Is it economically and relatively simple to limit charging current from an
> alternator in a 12v system? The automotive alternators have relatively high
> initial output and looking at my small electrical loads, I don't see the
> need for a massive battery...or have I got it all wrong??
>
> While an alternator has the CAPABILITY of delivering
> energy at relatively high rates, it can do so only
> if the LOAD is willing to accept it based on
> VOLTAGE DIFFERENTIALS and total loop resistance.
>
> When you hook an energy consumer across the bus,
> the current it requires is relatively constant and
> only slightly dependent on bus voltage. But an
> energy storage device (battery) may present a
> load to the bus that is initially several volts
> lower than the bus voltage set point.
>
> Now, you have the POTENTIAL for some serious
> currents to flow but even that's limited by the
> internal resistance of the battery. Intuitively
> one sees a potential hazard to, let us say, a 2 a.h.
> SLVA battery being totally discharged and then connected
> across a bus capable of delivering 40+ amps
> at normal bus voltages. Indeed, the itty-bitty
> battery's acceptance will 'spike' on initial
> connection but probably no where near 40 amps
> and it will fall rapidly. The risk to the battery
> is not so much from 'hammering energy into a
> chemical conversion'; the greatest potential
> for damage is from heating of the internals
> as a result of I(squared) x R watts being
> dissipated within the small mass. This is
> made worse by the fact that the dissipation
> is not necessarily spread evenly throughout
> the battery's chemistry.
>
> The battery will not necessarily drown
> upon experiencing its first 'drink from the
> firehose' but a series of such events will
> chip away at battery performance and severely
> shorten its potential service life.
>
> It would help to know more about your design
> goals. What size battery are you wanting to
> use? Is this battery going to be your only
> source of energy during failure of the boss-
> hog alternator? Have you established endurance
> goals for alternator-out operations? Aside
> from engine cranking, ENDURANCE goals are the
> big driver of battery size. Can you give
> us more numbers as to size of battery you
> want to use and how this battery fits into
> your consideration for a comfortable Plan-B
> termination of flight after an alternator
> failure?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: current limiting an alternator |
At 10:35 AM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
As usual, you have put much more thought into your answer than I did
into my question!
My craft is powered by a Chevy V6 with a single aftermarket ignition
coil, specifically designed for "high vibration environments". My
endurance goals for alternator-out operations would be 30 minutes, as
I will be strictly day VFR, and with a cruise speed of 100 knots I
will have some options.
Electrical loads are the usual ignition system, 2 comms, GPS, landing
light, but really the very basics required. No fuel pump, high wing
with carb. I had the H35 battery in mind, same as in the Bonanza.
I am not considering an endurance bus.
Okay. According to this posting
http://tinyurl.com/cryc6w3
The battery on an H35 is a 12 volt, rated
at 29 a.h. for a one-hour rate. At 30
pounds this is not a wimpy device. On the
certified airplane, it's paired with at least
a 60A alternator. There might have been an
larger alternator offered as an option.
Many of our brothers are flying 17 a.h. batteries
with alternators of 40 amps or more.
Can you articulate a foundation for your
concerns? Even if you don't have an E-bus,
consider a battery bus that supplies power
for the ignition system. You should be able
to fly this airplane with the battery master
and alternator switches OFF.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marvin haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | TM-902C Digital LCD K Type Thermometer meter |
I saw the thread a while back on this temp meter, and guess I missed
most of it. I just ordered 10 of the units for resale (I am a
distributor for Stewart Systems Aircraft Finishes) and decided the meter
was a cheap alternative for the $25 multimeter that I've been selling
for calibrating irons used to shrink fabric. I thought I saw a message
where someone calibrated the meter using boiling water? Is my memory
correct? Can someone either send that message to me again or steer me
to it?
M. Haught
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TM-902C Digital LCD K Type Thermometer meter |
At 02:57 PM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>I saw the thread a while back on this temp meter, and guess I missed
>most of it. I just ordered 10 of the units for resale (I am a
>distributor for Stewart Systems Aircraft Finishes) and decided the
>meter was a cheap alternative for the $25 multimeter that I've been
>selling for calibrating irons used to shrink fabric. I thought I
>saw a message where someone calibrated the meter using boiling
>water? Is my memory correct? Can someone either send that message
>to me again or steer me to it?
From my archives:
------------------------------------
The procedure I used was to immerse the probe in ice water and adjust
the display to 0 deg C. Next was to immerse the probe in boiling
water and adjust the display to 100 deg C. Repeat until no further
adjustment is needed.
Raymond Julian
On 10/24/2012 05:07 PM, rayj wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I calibrated the 3 TM-902C hand held instruments. I was able to
>adjust them to read the same at both 0 and 100 deg C. It seemed to
>take 2-3 cycles from cold to hot and back to get them to settle
>down, but once they did they all were very consistent at both ends
>of the range tested.
>
>As I reviewed Bob's posting I noticed that the boards in mine are a
>different layout than the one pictured. I'll include a picture of
>mine if I can get to upload.
>
>On mine one adjustment point is to the left of the yellow connector
>(6:30 position) near the edge of the board. The second is located
>at the 3:00 position.
>
>The 6:30 position adjusts the readout at 0 deg C. The 3:00 position
>adjusts the readout at 100 deg C. As I mentioned earlier it seemed
>to take 2-3 cycles before it becomes stable.
>
>On both adjustments turning clockwise lowered the value
>displayed. CCW raised it.
>
>--
>Raymond Julian
>Kettle River, MN
------------------------------------
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Digital multimeter recommendation |
I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like to
have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing, along
with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting an
aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Zenith CH 650/Corvair
Doing final punch list before my hangar move
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
| From: | Ed Gilroy <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
Buy a working Fluke off of Craigslist...
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Larry Winger wrote:
> I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
> upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like to
> have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing, along
> with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting an
> aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
> solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
>
> Larry Winger
> Tustin, CA
> Zenith CH 650/Corvair
> Doing final punch list before my hangar move
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
Agreed (or eBay). Used Fluke 77 meters are around your price range
and they're great. Especially if there's any RF interference around,
it's really worth having a quality meter.
Henry
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Ed Gilroy wrote:
> Buy a working Fluke off of Craigslist...
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Larry Winger wrote:
>>
>> I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
>> upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like to
>> have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing, along
>> with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting an
>> aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
>> solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Larry Winger
>> Tustin, CA
>> Zenith CH 650/Corvair
>> Doing final punch list before my hangar move
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
anyplace where it could be done.
Thanks,
Dick
In a message dated 12/4/2012 4:13:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
henry(at)pericynthion.org writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Henry Hallam
Agreed (or eBay). Used Fluke 77 meters are around your price range
and they're great. Especially if there's any RF interference around,
it's really worth having a quality meter.
Henry
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Ed Gilroy wrote:
> Buy a working Fluke off of Craigslist...
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Larry Winger
wrote:
>>
>> I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
>> upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like
to
>> have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing,
along
>> with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting
an
>> aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
>> solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Larry Winger
>> Tustin, CA
>> Zenith CH 650/Corvair
>> Doing final punch list before my hangar move
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
| From: | Ed Gilroy <egilroy(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/service/calibration/default.htm
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, wrote:
> **
> Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
> calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
> anyplace where it could be done.
> Thanks,
> Dick
>
> In a message dated 12/4/2012 4:13:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> henry(at)pericynthion.org writes:
>
> henry(at)pericynthion.org>
>
> Agreed (or eBay). Used Fluke 77 meters are around your price range
> and they're great. Especially if there's any RF interference around,
> it's really worth having a quality meter.
>
> Henry
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Ed Gilroy wrote:
> > Buy a working Fluke off of Craigslist...
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Larry Winger
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
> >> upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like
> to
> >> have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing,
> along
> >> with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting
> an
> >> aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
> >> solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
> >>
> >> Larry Winger
> >> Tustin, CA
> >> Zenith CH 650/Corvair
> >> Doing final punch list before my hangar move
> >>
> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >> ist" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> >> tp://forums.matronics.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> bsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE o find ifts bsp; lder's LP you
> for ; -Matt Dralle, List = Use ilities ay
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marvin haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TM-902C Digital LCD K Type Thermometer meter |
Thanks Bob - Just what I needed.
M. Haught
On 12/4/2012 3:19 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 02:57 PM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I saw the thread a while back on this temp meter, and guess I missed
>> most of it. I just ordered 10 of the units for resale (I am a
>> distributor for Stewart Systems Aircraft Finishes) and decided the
>> meter was a cheap alternative for the $25 multimeter that I've been
>> selling for calibrating irons used to shrink fabric. I thought I saw
>> a message where someone calibrated the meter using boiling water? Is
>> my memory correct? Can someone either send that message to me again
>> or steer me to it?
>
>
> From my archives:
> ------------------------------------
>
> The procedure I used was to immerse the probe in ice water and adjust
> the display to 0 deg C. Next was to immerse the probe in boiling
> water and adjust the display to 100 deg C. Repeat until no further
> adjustment is needed.
>
> Raymond Julian
>
> On 10/24/2012 05:07 PM, rayj wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I calibrated the 3 TM-902C hand held instruments. I was able to
>> adjust them to read the same at both 0 and 100 deg C. It seemed to
>> take 2-3 cycles from cold to hot and back to get them to settle down,
>> but once they did they all were very consistent at both ends of the
>> range tested.
>>
>> As I reviewed Bob's posting I noticed that the boards in mine are a
>> different layout than the one pictured. I'll include a picture of
>> mine if I can get to upload.
>>
>> On mine one adjustment point is to the left of the yellow connector
>> (6:30 position) near the edge of the board. The second is located at
>> the 3:00 position.
>>
>> The 6:30 position adjusts the readout at 0 deg C. The 3:00 position
>> adjusts the readout at 100 deg C. As I mentioned earlier it seemed
>> to take 2-3 cycles before it becomes stable.
>>
>> On both adjustments turning clockwise lowered the value displayed.
>> CCW raised it.
>>
>> --
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org> |
| Subject: | KT-76A transponder blowing fuse |
Dear Aeroelectrons,
My KT-76A (ser # 33921) has been occasionally tripping its 2A breaker
for a while. I let it run on the bench with a power logger and a 3A
supply and now after 30 minutes it has blown its internal 2A fuse. No
obvious burned components or leaky capacitors... any ideas for failure
modes? Does anyone have a schematic?
Thanks,
Henry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Initial amp spike on PTT |
My hangar mate and I checked the current in the wire pulled to ground by the
PTT and found an initial spike of almost 2 amps. This seems excessive to
me. After the initial spike it dropped down to a low number that I don't
currently remember, but close to what I would think is acceptable in the
millamp range.
The radio is a Garmin GNS 430W.
Any comments on this?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
Thanks
In a message dated 12/4/2012 5:14:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
egilroy(at)gmail.com writes:
_http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/service/calibration/default.htm_
(http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/service/calibration/default.htm)
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:55 PM, <_RGent1224(at)aol.com_
(mailto:RGent1224(at)aol.com) > wrote:
Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
anyplace where it could be done.
Thanks,
Dick
In a message dated 12/4/2012 4:13:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
_henry(at)pericynthion.org_ (mailto:henry(at)pericynthion.org) writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Henry Hallam
<_henry(at)pericynthion.org_ (mailto:henry(at)pericynthion.org) >
Agreed (or eBay). Used Fluke 77 meters are around your price range
and they're great. Especially if there's any RF interference around,
it's really worth having a quality meter.
Henry
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Ed Gilroy <_egilroy(at)gmail.com_
(mailto:egilroy(at)gmail.com) > wrote:
> Buy a working Fluke off of Craigslist...
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Larry Winger <_larrywinger(at)gmail.com_
(mailto:larrywinger(at)gmail.com) > wrote:
>>
>> I've just completed wiring my Zenith CH 650 and believe it is time to
>> upgrade from the Harbor Freight multimeter I've been using. I'll like
to
>> have one that can provide audio alerts when doing continuity testing,
along
>> with all the normal functionality you would expect when troubleshooting
an
>> aircraft electrical system. It would be great if I could find a really
>> solid, full-featured unit for under $75. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Larry Winger
>> Tustin, CA
>> Zenith CH 650/Corvair
>> Doing final punch list before my hangar move
>>
>> _blank">_www.aeroelectric.com_ (http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
>> .com" target="_blank">_www.buildersbooks.com_
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
>> ="_blank">_www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
>> _blank">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
>> ist"
target="_blank">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
>> tp://_forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
>>
>
>
bsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE o find ifts bsp; lder's LP you for ;
-Matt Dralle, List = Use ilities ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List tp://forums.matronics.com
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/)
(http://www.buildersbooks.com/)
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial amp spike on PTT |
At 10:43 PM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>My hangar mate and I checked the current in the wire pulled to ground by the
>PTT and found an initial spike of almost 2 amps. This seems excessive to
>me. After the initial spike it dropped down to a low number that I don't
>currently remember, but close to what I would think is acceptable in the
>millamp range.
What is the duration of the spike? The PTT
line coming out of the radio may have some
form of RFI ingress protection that includes
capacitance to ground. Any capacitor rapidly
discharged through the PTT circuit will produce
some large 'inrush' currents but they're typically
very short duration hence low energy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: current limiting an alternator |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, thanks for the insights; my concern was clearly born of ignorance. I
will implement the battery bus as suggested.
Best...
Bob Verwey
IO470 Bonanza A35 ZU-DLW
V6 Chevy Safari ZU-AJF
On 4 December 2012 19:55, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 10:35 AM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> As usual, you have put much more thought into your answer than I did into
> my question!
>
> My craft is powered by a Chevy V6 with a single aftermarket ignition coil,
> specifically designed for "high vibration environments". My endurance goals
> for alternator-out operations would be 30 minutes, as I will be strictly
> day VFR, and with a cruise speed of 100 knots I will have some options.
> Electrical loads are the usual ignition system, 2 comms, GPS, landing
> light, but really the very basics required. No fuel pump, high wing with
> carb. I had the H35 battery in mind, same as in the Bonanza.
>
> I am not considering an endurance bus. Okay. According to this posting
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cryc6w3
>
> The battery on an H35 is a 12 volt, rated at 29 a.h. for a one-hour rate.
> At 30 pounds this is not a wimpy device. On the certified airplane, it's
> paired with at least a 60A alternator. There might have been an larger
> alternator offered as an option.
> Many of our brothers are flying 17 a.h. batteries with alternators of 40
> amps or more.
> Can you articulate a foundation for your concerns? Even if you don't have
> an E-bus, consider a battery bus that supplies power for the ignition
> system. You should be able to fly this airplane with the battery master and
> alternator switches OFF.
>
> **
>
> **
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Initial amp spike on PTT |
Short duration, but long enough to read it on the VOM. Maybe a second??
I have some trim indicators that are connected to this same ground (it is on
my stick) and they dim out when I hit the PTT. I am going to separate the
PTT from them today.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Initial amp spike on PTT
At 10:43 PM 12/4/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>My hangar mate and I checked the current in the wire pulled to ground by
the
>PTT and found an initial spike of almost 2 amps. This seems excessive to
>me. After the initial spike it dropped down to a low number that I don't
>currently remember, but close to what I would think is acceptable in the
>millamp range.
What is the duration of the spike? The PTT
line coming out of the radio may have some
form of RFI ingress protection that includes
capacitance to ground. Any capacitor rapidly
discharged through the PTT circuit will produce
some large 'inrush' currents but they're typically
very short duration hence low energy.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be calibrated.
The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and anyplace where
it could be done. Thanks, Dick
Fluke 8020B....It a 30-year-old meter. See: http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/fluke_multimeter_8020b.html
And...I'm only guessing here...it sure doesn't owe you anything. Wrap it in plastic,
bless it, and bury it deep so some archaeologist in AD 5000 can find it.
Go to Ebay,, search "Fluke" and see what Santa Claus brings you. The 77 or 87 is
great.
You too Larry!
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389880#389880
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGent1224(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
Thanks, Eric, But I used the "A" model when I worked on the Kodak Copiers.
Dang guess I'll have to get modern and give up my slide rule for a computer
Dick
In a message dated 12/5/2012 7:38:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
emjones(at)charter.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
anyplace where it could be done. Thanks, Dick
Fluke 8020B....It a 30-year-old meter. See:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/fluke_multimeter_8020b.html
And...I'm only guessing here...it sure doesn't owe you anything. Wrap it
in plastic, bless it, and bury it deep so some archaeologist in AD 5000 can
find it.
Go to Ebay,, search "Fluke" and see what Santa Claus brings you. The 77 or
87 is great.
You too Larry!
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389880#389880
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Initial amp spike on PTT |
At 06:50 AM 12/5/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Short duration, but long enough to read it on the VOM. Maybe a second??
Wow . . . I'm not sure we have enough data
to craft good hypothesis.
>I have some trim indicators that are connected to this same ground (it is on
>my stick) and they dim out when I hit the PTT. I am going to separate the
>PTT from them today.
Hmmmm . . . it would be interesting to
dig into this further. I cannot imagine
why the radio would impose such a stress
on the PTT line . . . take that back . . .
try this one for an "off the wall" notion.
If the PTT current presented by the radio
was limited to that which was necessary
(perhaps a few mA) then PTT switches and
relay contacts NOT characterized for very
low currents tend to gain contact resistance
due to corrosion. Switches designed to switch
significant loads (1A or more) tend to get
'cleaned' with the tiny arc that forms during
each opening of the contacts. A 'power' rated
switch can become flaky with age when loaded
at very low values.
Many upper-crust relays and switches come with
gold plated contacts. As long as the contacts
are never loaded beyond the "low level specs"
the layer of gold preserves contact integrity.
The same device can be used in 'power' control
but the arcing will burn the gold away and
the contact morphs into a 'power only' device.
Some years ago, my employer's receiving inspection
decided that it would be a good deal to 100%
test all incoming, crystal can relays at their
rated loads. Thousands of devices were put into
a fixture and 'tested' at 2A.
Problem is that many of these relays were destined
for jobs as managers of low level signals. The gold
plating was burned away during receiving inspection.
The crippled relays began to fail in large numbers
sometimes years after the airplane was delivered.
It's just possible that some thoughtful designer
at Garmin built a feature into the PTT line that
reduces the need for PTT switches with gold
contacts.
Any chance you could get a 'scope trace of this
current pulse?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Ahrens <1975jsa(at)gmail.com> |
I am in the process of designing the electrical system for the my RV-7. I
know this will be a very basic question, but herding electrons is not one
of my strong suits. I am starting to run wires through the wing for all
the various electronics and I want to make sure I am reading the wire
size figure in Chapter 11 in AC 43-13. Just for my education lets use
Duckworth Landing Lights as example. I believe they recommend 16 AWG(for
55W lights) with a local / airframe ground. Wanting to understand how all
this stuff works I reference Figure 11-2 in AC 43-13.
First, I figure the AMPS drawn per light is 55 / 14 or 3.93; call it 4 AMPs
continuous. The wire run to the lights is estimated to be 18 feet. I am
including the length of the wing + a portion of the fuselage and an
estimate of the turns etc to reach the panel. Depending on how fine your
pencil is, the chart seems to indicate I could use AWG 18. If I want to
run the ground all the way back to the panel, then the length will be 36
feet. Then I need to use AWG 14 with the ensuing increase is weight. I
know the weight increase is minimal for one device. But landing lights,
nav lights, strobes, etc it all adds up.
Just in case someone wonders, my concern with local ground is the potential
of leakage into the avionics.
I am reading all this correctly. Thank you all for your kind advice.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
If you want to do it yourself, here are some cal instructions:
http://electroniccalibrators.tpub.com/TB-9-6625-2266-35/TB-9-6625-2266-350003.htm
Henry
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 8:11 AM, wrote:
> Thanks, Eric, But I used the "A" model when I worked on the Kodak Copiers.
> Dang guess I'll have to get modern and give up my slide rule for a computer
> Dick
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2012 7:38:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> emjones(at)charter.net writes:
>
>
>
>
>> Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
>> calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
>> anyplace where it could be done. Thanks, Dick
>
>
> Fluke 8020B....It a 30-year-old meter. See:
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/fluke_multimeter_8020b.html
>
> And...I'm only guessing here...it sure doesn't owe you anything. Wrap it in
> plastic, bless it, and bury it deep so some archaeologist in AD 5000 can
> find it.
>
> Go to Ebay,, search "Fluke" and see what Santa Claus brings you. The 77 or
> 87 is great.
>
> You too Larry!
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389880#389880
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I know the weight increase is minimal for one device. But landing
>lights, nav lights, strobes, etc it all adds up.
>
>Just in case someone wonders, my concern with local ground is the
>potential of leakage into the avionics.
>
>I am reading all this correctly. Thank you all for your kind advice.
Have you read the chapters on wiring and
grounding in the AeroElectric Connection?
The rule of thumb for voltage drop limiting
is 5% of system voltage or 0.7 volts. A 4
amp load produces this size of drop with
a loop resistance of 175 milliohms. An 18'
run of wire would have to be run with
material having a resistance of about 175/18
or 10 milliohms per foot. 20AWG meets the requirement
for a single run of wire and local ground. This
exercise is described in a paper at:
http://tinyurl.com/ar6k3ed
Local grounds are fine as long as you perform
due diligence for eliminating airframe ground
loops in for potential victims by means of centralized
ground bussing as described in chapter on grounding
and figure Z15 in the wiring diagrams.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Ahrens <1975jsa(at)gmail.com> |
The rule of thumb for voltage drop limiting
is 5% of system voltage or 0.7 volts. A 4
amp load produces this size of drop with
a loop resistance of 175 milliohms. An 18'
run of wire would have to be run with
material having a resistance of about 175/18
or 10 milliohms per foot. 20AWG meets the requirement
for a single run of wire and local ground. This
exercise is described in a paper at:
http://tinyurl.com/ar6k3ed
After reading (and re-reading) the link you sent I have calculated that
using an 18 AWG wire will meet the requirement. Using the constant of 700,
6.39 mOhm and 4 Amp draw I get a length of 27.39 feet. If I want to I can
step to a 16 AWG and the acceptable length is 43.64. All of this assuming
a local ground.
I will go back and re-read that chapter in your book. Thank you.
Scott
> I am in the process of designing the electrical system for the my RV-7. I
> know this will be a very basic question, but herding electrons is not one
> of my strong suits. I am starting to run wires through the wing for all
> the various electronics and I want to make sure I am reading the wire
> size figure in Chapter 11 in AC 43-13. Just for my education lets use
> Duckworth Landing Lights as example. I believe they recommend 16 AWG(for
> 55W lights) with a local / airframe ground. Wanting to understand how all
> this stuff works I reference Figure 11-2 in AC 43-13.
>
> First, I figure the AMPS drawn per light is 55 / 14 or 3.93; call it 4
> AMPs continuous. The wire run to the lights is estimated to be 18 feet. I
> am including the length of the wing + a portion of the fuselage and an
> estimate of the turns etc to reach the panel. Depending on how fine your
> pencil is, the chart seems to indicate I could use AWG 18. If I want to
> run the ground all the way back to the panel, then the length will be 36
> feet. Then I need to use AWG 14 with the ensuing increase is weight. I
> know the weight increase is minimal for one device. But landing lights,
> nav lights, strobes, etc it all adds up.
>
> Just in case someone wonders, my concern with local ground is the
> potential of leakage into the avionics.
>
> I am reading all this correctly. Thank you all for your kind advice.
>
> Scott
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Initial amp spike on PTT |
Bob,
No I have no access to a scope.
As we were checking this problem with keying the mike out today, we found
that the RAC trim indicators were going to one end of the indicators and
dimming out when we keyed the mike. We have checked out the power and
ground wires for these indicators and they seem ok.
I called the Ray Allen Co about this and he suggests that I sounds like an
RF problem, but we fabricated a coax that ran from the radio to the antenna
by going completely outside the plane to insure that we were not getting RF
interference and it did not change the indicators performance.
I keep thinking that someone previously on the list had a problem with the
indicators a year or so ago and possibly found a fix???
B2
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Initial amp spike on PTT
At 06:50 AM 12/5/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Short duration, but long enough to read it on the VOM. Maybe a second??
Wow . . . I'm not sure we have enough data
to craft good hypothesis.
>I have some trim indicators that are connected to this same ground (it is
on
>my stick) and they dim out when I hit the PTT. I am going to separate the
>PTT from them today.
Hmmmm . . . it would be interesting to
dig into this further. I cannot imagine
why the radio would impose such a stress
on the PTT line . . . take that back . . .
try this one for an "off the wall" notion.
If the PTT current presented by the radio
was limited to that which was necessary
(perhaps a few mA) then PTT switches and
relay contacts NOT characterized for very
low currents tend to gain contact resistance
due to corrosion. Switches designed to switch
significant loads (1A or more) tend to get
'cleaned' with the tiny arc that forms during
each opening of the contacts. A 'power' rated
switch can become flaky with age when loaded
at very low values.
Many upper-crust relays and switches come with
gold plated contacts. As long as the contacts
are never loaded beyond the "low level specs"
the layer of gold preserves contact integrity.
The same device can be used in 'power' control
but the arcing will burn the gold away and
the contact morphs into a 'power only' device.
Some years ago, my employer's receiving inspection
decided that it would be a good deal to 100%
test all incoming, crystal can relays at their
rated loads. Thousands of devices were put into
a fixture and 'tested' at 2A.
Problem is that many of these relays were destined
for jobs as managers of low level signals. The gold
plating was burned away during receiving inspection.
The crippled relays began to fail in large numbers
sometimes years after the airplane was delivered.
It's just possible that some thoughtful designer
at Garmin built a feature into the PTT line that
reduces the need for PTT switches with gold
contacts.
Any chance you could get a 'scope trace of this
current pulse?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Scott,
If you are going to do HID, 55w will be plenty enough. If you are going
to use halogen lights, plan for more than 55w. I had a pair of 75w for
years and when I went to 100w, I finally felt it was about bright
enough. I normally wig-wag them and everybody sees that coming. I turn
them both on steady for night landings. The weight difference for larger
gauge wire is negligible. Local ground will work fine.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
On 12/5/2012 12:35 PM, Scott Ahrens wrote:
> The rule of thumb for voltage drop limiting
> is 5% of system voltage or 0.7 volts. A 4
> amp load produces this size of drop with
> a loop resistance of 175 milliohms. An 18'
> run of wire would have to be run with
> material having a resistance of about 175/18
> or 10 milliohms per foot. 20AWG meets the requirement
> for a single run of wire and local ground. This
> exercise is described in a paper at:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ar6k3ed
> After reading (and re-reading) the link you sent I have calculated
> that using an 18 AWG wire will meet the requirement. Using the
> constant of 700, 6.39 mOhm and 4 Amp draw I get a length of 27.39
> feet. If I want to I can step to a 16 AWG and the acceptable length
> is 43.64. All of this assuming a local ground.
> I will go back and re-read that chapter in your book. Thank you.
> Scott
>
>
> I am in the process of designing the electrical system for the my
> RV-7. I know this will be a very basic question, but herding
> electrons is not one of my strong suits. I am starting to run
> wires through the wing for all the various electronics and I want
> to make sure I am reading the wire size figure in Chapter 11 in AC
> 43-13. Just for my education lets use Duckworth Landing Lights as
> example. I believe they recommend 16 AWG(for 55W lights) with a
> local / airframe ground. Wanting to understand how all this stuff
> works I reference Figure 11-2 in AC 43-13.
> First, I figure the AMPS drawn per light is 55 / 14 or 3.93; call
> it 4 AMPs continuous. The wire run to the lights is estimated to
> be 18 feet. I am including the length of the wing + a portion of
> the fuselage and an estimate of the turns etc to reach the panel.
> Depending on how fine your pencil is, the chart seems to indicate
> I could use AWG 18. If I want to run the ground all the way back
> to the panel, then the length will be 36 feet. Then I need to use
> AWG 14 with the ensuing increase is weight. I know the weight
> increase is minimal for one device. But landing lights, nav
> lights, strobes, etc it all adds up.
> Just in case someone wonders, my concern with local ground is the
> potential of leakage into the avionics.
> I am reading all this correctly. Thank you all for your kind advice.
> Scott
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Rejuvenating Ni-MH battery |
Bob, et. al.,
I recall this was a thread awhile back, but I could not find my answer
in the archives.
Basically I have a 9.6v, 760mAh, Ni-MH battery pack (BP-200L) for an
ICOM handheld radio. The battery will no longer take a charge. Is
there any way to rejuvenate the battery? I emailed the question to the
ICOM Technical Service department, but they never bothered to respond.
One of the AeroElectric archive suggestions was to discharge a Ni-MH
battery with a dead short for 24 hours, then apply a 1 amp, 3v charge
for a few seconds, then recharge normally. However, I think this
recommendation must have been for a smaller battery, maybe a 1.5v
cell. Is there a recommended flash voltage and amperage to try and
rejuvenate my 9.6v battery?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital multimeter recommendation |
Thanks, Eric. I'm about to pull the trigger on an 87 III series.
Larry
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
> emjones(at)charter.net>
>
>
> > Question I have a Fluke 8020 B multimeter and I think it needs to be
> calibrated. The voltages appear to be off a bit. How much would it cost and
> anyplace where it could be done. Thanks, Dick
>
>
> Fluke 8020B....It a 30-year-old meter. See:
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/fluke_multimeter_8020b.html
>
> And...I'm only guessing here...it sure doesn't owe you anything. Wrap it
> in plastic, bless it, and bury it deep so some archaeologist in AD 5000 can
> find it.
>
> Go to Ebay,, search "Fluke" and see what Santa Claus brings you. The 77 or
> 87 is great.
>
> You too Larry!
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=389880#389880
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John MacCallum <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Rejuvenating Ni-MH battery |
There are battery rejuvenating chargers around but I have had little success
with them in commercial use.
I just go out and buy a new battery when they start to play up.
Cheers
John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Brame
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 3:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rejuvenating Ni-MH battery
-->
Bob, et. al.,
I recall this was a thread awhile back, but I could not find my answer in
the archives.
Basically I have a 9.6v, 760mAh, Ni-MH battery pack (BP-200L) for an ICOM
handheld radio. The battery will no longer take a charge. Is there any way
to rejuvenate the battery? I emailed the question to the ICOM Technical
Service department, but they never bothered to respond.
One of the AeroElectric archive suggestions was to discharge a Ni-MH battery
with a dead short for 24 hours, then apply a 1 amp, 3v charge for a few
seconds, then recharge normally. However, I think this recommendation must
have been for a smaller battery, maybe a 1.5v cell. Is there a recommended
flash voltage and amperage to try and rejuvenate my 9.6v battery?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rejuvenating Ni-MH battery |
At 10:30 PM 12/5/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob, et. al.,
>
>I recall this was a thread awhile back, but I could not find my answer
>in the archives.
>
>Basically I have a 9.6v, 760mAh, Ni-MH battery pack (BP-200L) for an
>ICOM handheld radio. The battery will no longer take a charge. Is
>there any way to rejuvenate the battery? I emailed the question to the
>ICOM Technical Service department, but they never bothered to respond.
Have you looked to see what's involved in getting
the battery box open? There are companies that
specialize in cell replacement for a constellation
of products.
I've kept an inventory of AAA, AA and 2/3C NiMh cells
with solder tabs on hand to re-cell many of my own
tools. Just replaced all the cells in my wireless
phone handsets for a fraction of the cost of manufactured
cell assemblies.
As others have noted, rejuvenating the stagnant
cad cell is problematic. You $time$ fiddling with
a junk cell can easily cost you more than a new cell.
The last time I used rechargeable cells in my
camera equipment, I used a magic marker to denote
the number of recharge cycles on each cell in my
inventory. I pitched the cells after a dozen or so
cycles. An imbalance of cell capacity sets up
a scenario where one soggy cell in an array of four can
cause a device to quit in spite of the fact that
the other cells are in great shape. The $time$ it
takes to cap-check cells and mate them with cells
of similar capacity was simply not a good use
of $time$. I could buy an AA NiMh battery for
about the same cost as a premium AA alkaline.
Ten cycles through the charger reduces my
battery costs by 90% while scheduled 'retirement'
maintained overall system reliability without
incurring preventative maintenance expenses.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rejuvenating Ni-MH battery |
| From: | Bill <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
Charlie -
I have the same BP-200L battery with my iCom A23. Like you I tried to
cajole it back to life using the supplied charger but failed.
I bought a replacement battery "ProStar PSI-BP200JH", from "atbatt.com"
for $43.08 delivered to my door. Got it a couple of months ago and it -
seems fine so far. Keeps a charge while attached to radio for about a
month. My worn-out original batt wouldn't hold a charge (what charge?) for
more than a day switched "off". Can't vouch for this replacement battery
long-term but so far so good.
Bill
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Charles Brame wrote:
>
> Bob, et. al.,
>
> I recall this was a thread awhile back, but I could not find my answer in
> the archives.
>
> Basically I have a 9.6v, 760mAh, Ni-MH battery pack (BP-200L) for an ICOM
> handheld radio. The battery will no longer take a charge. Is there any way
> to rejuvenate the battery? I emailed the question to the ICOM Technical
> Service department, but they never bothered to respond.
>
> One of the AeroElectric archive suggestions was to discharge a Ni-MH
> battery with a dead short for 24 hours, then apply a 1 amp, 3v charge for a
> few seconds, then recharge normally. However, I think this recommendation
> must have been for a smaller battery, maybe a 1.5v cell. Is there a
> recommended flash voltage and amperage to try and rejuvenate my 9.6v
> battery?
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
Master byte thrasher Paul is putting some
final touches on the software for the AEC9012
Programmable Wig-Wag controller. I ran some tests
on the bench with 55w halogen lamps and was gratified
at the response rate of these bulbs in a triple-
flash mode.
First passes at the software offered a single-flash
mode (ostensibly for tungsten lamps) and a triple-flash
mode for LED lamps due to their faster switching speeds.
As you can see in this video . . .
http://tinyurl.com/c5uzsjd
. . . the halogen lamps intensity modulate quite nicely in the
triple-flash mode so we're eliminating the single flash
mode. Further, we've added a software option that installer
can select that makes the AEC9012 compatible with either single
or two-switch panel controls.
A production quantity of boards arrived today. Some
additional parts are expected Saturday. The data
package for project will be posted at
http://tinyurl.com/bpoqdj7
Paul is having so much fun at the computer he's already
bugging me for the next project.
Many thanks to Greg and Paul who have so successfully
wrangled the bytes into doing a good thing.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
I had a query about source and object code for the wig-wag
controller. As soon as Paul puts the final polish on it,
both the hex and c-source codes will be published as well.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wingtip VOR antenna in the Connection |
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> |
Bob,
On page 13-16 (Chapter 13, page 16) of the Aeroelectric
Connection there is a diagram of an antenna designed to be fit into a
wingtip.
My best guess is that this antenna requires at least 10.5 inches of
space, measuring the depth of the wingtip from the outer end to the
first wing rib. At most I have about 8 inches of depth in my Glastar
wingtips, but I'd really like to use this type of antenna if possible.
Is it possible to make changes to this antenna so that it will fit in
my wingtip, or should I instead pursue a "Rabbit Ears" design as shown
on page 14?
Do you have specific dimensions and instructions for constructing the
Rabbit Ears antenna, similar to the figures for the wing tip and
glideslope antennas?
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this |
work?
| From: | "plevyakh" <hplevyak(at)mac.com> |
Folks,
I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and control surfaces).
I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it just AFT
of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in a crash for my aircraft.
I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that requires
creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil elements, per the E-04
Install guide). I don't have the room for this in the tail cone...given I
have other stuff back there in the way.
I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was going to make
my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for the older style
121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross style antenna, and have
one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the other V with lengths = 7.3"
(406MHz).
This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead "A" in a
vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to accommodate
the 406MHz frequency?
Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design to make it
work?
Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting approval
to use a "Double V style antenna"?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Howard
--------
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
hplevyak(at)mac.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390046#390046
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/elt_copper_foil_dipole_x_design_123.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will |
this work?
It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY
TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas).
Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect
the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements.
Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
or not you won't know without asking up front.
On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote:
>
> Folks,
> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and control
surfaces).
>
> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it just AFT
of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in a crash for my
aircraft.
>
> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that requires
creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil elements, per the
E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this in the tail cone...given
I have other stuff back there in the way.
>
> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was going to
make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for the older style
121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross style antenna, and
have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the other V with lengths = 7.3"
(406MHz).
>
> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead "A" in
a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
>
> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to accommodate
the 406MHz frequency?
>
> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design to make
it work?
>
> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting approval
to use a "Double V style antenna"?
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
> Howard
>
> --------
> Howard Plevyak
> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
> hplevyak(at)mac.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390046#390046
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/elt_copper_foil_dipole_x_design_123.jpg
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will |
this work?
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Hi Howard, I ran into this same problem on my Cozy and studied doing a home brew
antenna myself. Eventually I was able to make a ground plane for the provided
antenna by running 4 wires out from the TSO'd antenna, not the 6 they call for
but the best I could do. So if you do build your own dual band dipole my suggestion
is build it first on cardboard or similar, then go buy a box of doughnuts
and stop in the local 2 way communications dealer and see if they will put
their analyzer on it and check its resonance on both bands. Most city or county
fire dept or law enforcement agency will have some of these guys floating
around also.
As for the legal side it won't be without the TSO antenna. Period.
On the practical side you don't have to have a ELT in phase 1 anyway. Leave it
out until you have what you need from the DAR and then the rest is on you.
Myself, I wouldn't lose any sleep over doing it this way, but you may carry PX
sometime and you need to consider them also. But the other side of that equation,
if you want to rationalize a bit, is the 406/121.5 gps-fed system you have
with a home brew antenna will be far better than the second hand $25 ELT that
is still legal to install.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 7, 2012, at 4:43 PM, "plevyakh" wrote:
>
> Folks,
> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and control
surfaces).
>
> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it just AFT
of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in a crash for my
aircraft.
>
> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that requires
creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil elements, per the
E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this in the tail cone...given
I have other stuff back there in the way.
>
> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was going to
make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for the older style
121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross style antenna, and
have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the other V with lengths = 7.3"
(406MHz).
>
> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead "A" in
a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
>
> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to accommodate
the 406MHz frequency?
>
> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design to make
it work?
>
> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting approval
to use a "Double V style antenna"?
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
> Howard
>
> --------
> Howard Plevyak
> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
> hplevyak(at)mac.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390046#390046
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/elt_copper_foil_dipole_x_design_123.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will |
this work?
I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing signal
from most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in visual
range. So a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my personal
requirements. Still won't make you legal but perhaps a reasonable
compromise?? More important to me is wiring a gps signal into the E-04.
Ken
On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY
> TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas).
> Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect
> the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements.
> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
> or not you won't know without asking up front.
>
> On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and
>> control surfaces).
>>
>> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it
>> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in
>> a crash for my aircraft.
>>
>> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that
>> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil
>> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this
>> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way.
>>
>> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was
>> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for
>> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross
>> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the
>> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz).
>>
>> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead
>> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
>>
>> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to
>> accommodate the 406MHz frequency?
>>
>> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design
>> to make it work?
>>
>> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting
>> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"?
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>> Howard
>>
>> --------
>> Howard Plevyak
>> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
>> hplevyak(at)mac.com
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will |
this work?
| From: | Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net> |
The problem is the ACK 406,ELT does a function check of the antenna, if it d
oesn't like what it sees down the antenna connection it faults. So even if y
ou make a nicely resonant antenna for 406 I don't think it will work. See: h
ttp://ackavionics.com/406%20Page.html
Tim
On Dec 8, 2012, at 4:50 AM, Ken wrote:
>
> I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing signal fr
om most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in visual range. S
o a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my personal requirements. S
till won't make you legal but perhaps a reasonable compromise?? More importa
nt to me is wiring a gps signal into the E-04.
> Ken
>
> On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>
>> It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY
>> TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas).
>> Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect
>> the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements.
>> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
>> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
>> or not you won't know without asking up front.
>>
>> On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and
>>> control surfaces).
>>>
>>> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it
>>> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in
>>> a crash for my aircraft.
>>>
>>> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that
>>> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil
>>> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this
>>> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way.
>>>
>>> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was
>>> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for
>>> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross
>>> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the
>>> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz).
>>>
>>> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead
>>> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
>>>
>>> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to
>>> accommodate the 406MHz frequency?
>>>
>>> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design
>>> to make it work?
>>>
>>> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting
>>> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Howard Plevyak
>>> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
>>> hplevyak(at)mac.com
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will |
this work?
I'd suggest taking a look at where the same brand antenna is installed
on some fully certificated factory single engine planes, & take some
pictures for your DAR. Most are on the fuselage, right? How many single
engine a/c have tail cones that are 48" wide?
Charlie
On 12/08/2012 06:50 AM, Ken wrote:
>
> I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing
> signal from most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in
> visual range. So a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my
> personal requirements. Still won't make you legal but perhaps a
> reasonable compromise?? More important to me is wiring a gps signal
> into the E-04.
> Ken
>
> On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>
>> It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY
>> TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas).
>> Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect
>> the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements.
>> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
>> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
>> or not you won't know without asking up front.
>>
>> On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote:
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and
>>> control surfaces).
>>>
>>> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it
>>> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in
>>> a crash for my aircraft.
>>>
>>> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that
>>> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil
>>> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this
>>> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way.
>>>
>>> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was
>>> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for
>>> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross
>>> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the
>>> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz).
>>>
>>> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead
>>> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg).
>>>
>>> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to
>>> accommodate the 406MHz frequency?
>>>
>>> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design
>>> to make it work?
>>>
>>> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting
>>> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Howard Plevyak
>>> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio
>>> hplevyak(at)mac.com
>>>
>>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna |
Hi Kelly-
RE:
>Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
>must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
>or not you won't know without asking up front.
I know this came up a while back, and I meant to run it to ground, but got busy
and let it slip. My current understanding is different in that an ELT should
MEET TSO, vs HAVE a TSO. I'm wondering if you have a reference source for for
this issue. Things are evolving with some regs, and I'd hate to get caught
unaware with a recent change!
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna |
The question is how do you prove "meeting" TSO without having actual TSO
testing done?
I know there are a few transponders that are experimental only that
claim to meet TSO, but they generally are based on a unit that does meet
TSO, such as the Dynon, that is made by Trig, who has several TSO
approved units.
On 12/8/2012 9:49 AM, Glen Matejcek wrote:
>
> Hi Kelly-
>
> RE:
>
>> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it
>> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there
>> or not you won't know without asking up front.
>
> I know this came up a while back, and I meant to run it to ground, but got busy
and let it slip. My current understanding is different in that an ELT should
MEET TSO, vs HAVE a TSO. I'm wondering if you have a reference source for
for this issue. Things are evolving with some regs, and I'd hate to get caught
unaware with a recent change!
>
> Glen Matejcek
>
>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 250XL Display Failure |
| From: | "Larry Ford" <psychden(at)sonic.net> |
I've just experienced the third failure of the display screen (illuminates but
no characters/digits) in 10 years and 835 hours TT. The comm does function but
there's no way to determine the frequency without the display. The last repair
was February 2009 and $653 which had to be "handled" through an avionics shop
as Garmin no longer deals direct with OBAM customers. The aircraft is always
hangared and there are no environmental or vibration issues contributing to the
problem. I'm disinclined to invest any more $$$ in a design that has demonstrated
to be unreliable. It's time to dump the 250XL but I'm leery of upgrading
to other Garmin products if they are just as maintenance intensive. Any others
having similar experiences or am I just unlucky?
Larry Ford
Glasair I RG
N149LF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390116#390116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fedico94(at)mchsi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 250XL Display Failure |
Have alot of experience with Garmin products through a full Garmin avionics suite
and a G3X system. I have only had the products installed and working for 6
months. At the repair cost I would exit out of a "used" piece of equipment.
In the past a moisture bent circuit board or just a poor design such as the GMA240
Audio Panel is not "owned" by Garmin, they side step the issue. More companies
are entering the transponder nav-com market like Trutrak and Dynon. Customer
service and quality/reliability will make the marketplace competitive.
I am inclined to think that the guy who has 2 or 3 mortagages on his home to
fund his business venture is going to be more attentive to the above as oppossed
to an employee looking out for his own next personal interests.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Ford <psychden(at)sonic.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 250XL Display Failure
I've just experienced the third failure of the display screen (illuminates but
no characters/digits) in 10 years and 835 hours TT. The comm does function but
there's no way to determine the frequency without the display. The last repair
was February 2009 and $653 which had to be "handled" through an avionics shop
as Garmin no longer deals direct with OBAM customers. The aircraft is always
hangared and there are no environmental or vibration issues contributing to the
problem. I'm disinclined to invest any more $$$ in a design that has demonstrated
to be unreliable. It's time to dump the 250XL but I'm leery of upgrading
to other Garmin products if they are just as maintenance intensive. Any others
having similar experiences or am I just unlucky?
Larry Ford
Glasair I RG
N149LF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390116#390116
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 250XL Display Failure |
| From: | Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> |
Larry,
Multiple Garmin units, handheld, automotive and aviation. No problems with any
of them.
Well, almost no problems. I had a Nuvi that I gave to my wife for her use when
my new pickup came with a navigation unit. She threw the Nuvi in the back of
her car and never used it. When I dug it out a year later to update the maps,
it was dead. I called Garmin about a battery replacement and they told me to
plug it in and leave it for a couple days. I did and when I started it up two
days later it worked. Took about a week on and off the charger to recover
the battery but it works just fine now.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com
On Dec 9, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Larry Ford wrote:
I've just experienced the third failure of the display screen (illuminates but
no characters/digits) in 10 years and 835 hours TT. The comm does function but
there's no way to determine the frequency without the display. The last repair
was February 2009 and $653 which had to be "handled" through an avionics shop
as Garmin no longer deals direct with OBAM customers. The aircraft is always
hangared and there are no environmental or vibration issues contributing to the
problem. I'm disinclined to invest any more $$$ in a design that has demonstrated
to be unreliable. It's time to dump the 250XL but I'm leery of upgrading
to other Garmin products if they are just as maintenance intensive. Any others
having similar experiences or am I just unlucky?
Larry Ford
Glasair I RG
N149LF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
On 12/7/2012 11:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> First passes at the software offered a single-flash
> mode (ostensibly for tungsten lamps) and a triple-flash
> mode for LED lamps due to their faster switching speeds.
Bob,
How well would these work with HID lamps?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
At 07:11 PM 12/9/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>On 12/7/2012 11:03 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>First passes at the software offered a single-flash
>>mode (ostensibly for tungsten lamps) and a triple-flash
>>mode for LED lamps due to their faster switching speeds.
>
>Bob,
>
>How well would these work with HID lamps?
Unknown. I think there has been conversation here on
the List indicating that some HID lamps can be flashed
but not all. I've got some I can hook up here on the
bench. When I ran them in my car, I think it took about
20-30 seconds for them to 'warm up' to full light output
after a cold start.
It MIGHT be that they would flash well if they were
operated on-steady for a minute before going to the
wig-wag mode . . .
Have you operated your proposed HID lamps with any
sort of flasher in the past? You could test the
suitability by simply turning one of them on/off
at about 1/2 second per flash. Right now the 9012
is set up for triple flash but COULD be offered in
single flash mode.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Millner <millner(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
On 12/9/2012 5:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Have you operated your proposed HID lamps with any
> sort of flasher in the past?
I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell
(joint development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified
flasher for them (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of flashing
stratagem supposedly works, though not the conventional PulseLight,
supposedly.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2012 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about a week
ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. It is the
people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible!
Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and
I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2012.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
>I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell
>(joint development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified
>flasher for them (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of
>flashing stratagem supposedly works, though not the conventional
>PulseLight, supposedly.
I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
33% of 50% or 17%.
These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
at the next opportunity.
Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
to try.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Wesson" <Mark(at)wessonair.com> |
| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
We have to ask. Why did you pull them out of the KIA?
Mark Wesson
President / Owner
mark(at)wessonair.com
Ph # 407-831-5061
Fax # 407-831-2570
http://www.wessonair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open source wig-wag project
-->
>I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell
>(joint development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified
>flasher for them (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of flashing
>stratagem supposedly works, though not the conventional PulseLight,
>supposedly.
I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
33% of 50% or 17%.
These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
at the next opportunity.
Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
to try.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | Dick Fisher <difisher43(at)gmail.com> |
Bob,
My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag module
from Perihilion
click on this link: http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did use
another device from
him which I can't recall the name of right now. The wig-wag and lights
worked great.
Dick Fisher
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell (joint
>> development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified flasher for them
>> (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of flashing stratagem supposedly
>> works, though not the conventional PulseLight, supposedly.
>>
>
> I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
> you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
> lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
> as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
> 33% of 50% or 17%.
>
> These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
> legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
>
> I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
> at the next opportunity.
>
> Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
> with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
>
> Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
> have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
> into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
> conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
> minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
>
> So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
> to try.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | Corey Crawford <corey.crawford(at)gmail.com> |
One of the vendors on VAF got a patent for some device that warms up HIDs
before flashing them:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=55463
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag module from Perihilion http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did use another device from him.... The wig-wag and lights worked great. Dick Fisher
Thanks, Dick. I still sell the wigwags which work on nearly anything, but the HIDs
tripped me up when they first appeared. There are three things to keep in
mind:
1) They must be warmed up 20-30 seconds or so first.
2) They need a surge suppressor since the initial lamp turn-on neatly exceeds the
mosfet current capability.
3) They need a voltage clipper to prevent the starting voltage from getting back
to the mosfet.The zener clippers should be near the ballast but not between
the ballast and the lamp.
BTW: here is my tirade against wig-wagging HIDs: In a previous life, I spent almost
three decades building high power xenon short-arc, HID, and halogen lamp
systems. So I have long experience with both the lamps and their power supplies
and their foibles. And I know in excruciating detail what is needed to wig-wag
them.
So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HID lamps because they
will have shorter lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an advantage of HID lamps
disappears quickly if one abuses them by (Oh, let's say) 2500 restarts per
hour! Many problems with HIDs don't occur in any simple way either. There are
second- and even third- order problems to contend with. Furthermore, switched-mode
power supplies and starters are particularly failure-prone when abused.
I can guarantee that the manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty
their devices to be used in this fashion.
So even though HIDs are the cat's meow, I'd use halogens or LEDs. It's true, you
can do deer-jacking at the other end of the runway with HIDs...but do you really
need to do that? I still advise people to use LEDs, or hold out for a little
while to get the LEDs you want. A couple CREE Ultrafires will land my airplane
now.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390270#390270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
At 01:25 PM 12/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>We have to ask. Why did you pull them out of the KIA?
Wrong color. The biggest night-time hazard
in this part of the world are the road rats
Emacs!
The color temperature of the HID lamps
doesn't reflect as well from the fur
of these critters as the more yellow-red
incandescent lamps.
I could visibly illuminate a stop sign
from 1+ miles away but didn't help pick
one of these guys up in the ditch at
200 yards.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington" <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will
wig/wag our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do
that?
Dee
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
> emjones(at)charter.net>
>
>
> > My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag
> module from Perihilion http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did
> use another device from him.... The wig-wag and lights worked great. Dick
> Fisher
>
>
> Thanks, Dick. I still sell the wigwags which work on nearly anything, but
> the HIDs tripped me up when they first appeared. There are three things t
o
> keep in mind:
>
> 1) They must be warmed up 20-30 seconds or so first.
> 2) They need a surge suppressor since the initial lamp turn-on neatly
> exceeds the mosfet current capability.
> 3) They need a voltage clipper to prevent the starting voltage from
> getting back to the mosfet.The zener clippers should be near the ballast
> but not between the ballast and the lamp.
>
> BTW: here is my tirade against wig-wagging HIDs: In a previous life, I
> spent almost three decades building high power xenon short-arc, HID, and
> halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with both the lamps and
> their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in excruciating detail
> what is needed to wig-wag them.
>
> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HID lamps
> because they will have shorter lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an
> advantage of HID lamps disappears quickly if one abuses them by (Oh, let'
s
> say=85) 2500 restarts per hour! Many problems with HIDs don't occur in an
y
> simple way either. There are second- and even third- order problems to
> contend with. Furthermore, switched-mode power supplies and starters are
> particularly failure-prone when abused. I can guarantee that the
> manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their devices to
be
> used in this fashion.
>
> So even though HIDs are the cat's meow, I'd use halogens or LEDs. It's
> true, you can do deer-jacking at the other end of the runway with
> HIDs...but do you really need to do that? I still advise people to use
> LEDs, or hold out for a little while to get the LEDs you want. A couple
> CREE Ultrafires will land my airplane now.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390270#390270
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
DeWitt Whittington
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> |
> So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will wig/wag
our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do that?
To make this abundantly and perfectly clear:...YES and NO.
Personally I love LEDs more. But HIDs are amazing technology, and I can show you
why they are the best source available for putting into a reflector.
But when we tested HID power supplies, we cycled them on/off 10,000 times in heat-stressed
environments, NOT 2,500 times an hour.
Is is possible that the OEM of the lamps and/or HID power supplies would provide
a written guarantee of the lamps and/or power supplies for the intended use
in aircraft Wig-wagging? HELL NO.
Would it be better (only in term of lifetime) to wig-wag HIDs or LEDs? No doubt
about it, LEDs.
Is it be vaguely possible that the HIDs will do fine? YES. Could it be that they
are worth their weight in gold if it prevents a collision with another aircraft
or a fat Canadian goose and to hell with any questions about possible short
lifetimes of the HID and/ power supply? YES!
Is it a really bad idea to fly way up off the ground with an airplane you built
yourself? Errrrr......
You decide.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390285#390285
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
| From: | Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> |
I would like to install a landing light or two and for various reasons I am leaning
towards LEDs.
Can anyone recommend some products they are happy with? I mean both the bulbs and
the lenses/mounting. If the products are automotive/easy/cheap to source all
the better. I have two circular cutouts about 10cm (4.5in) in diameter which
would be natural places to mount landing lights. Most of my flying is daytime
VFR.
Sacha
On 11/dic/2012, at 15:10, "Eric M. Jones" wrote:
>
>
>> So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will wig/wag
our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do that?
>
>
> To make this abundantly and perfectly clear:...YES and NO.
>
> Personally I love LEDs more. But HIDs are amazing technology, and I can show
you why they are the best source available for putting into a reflector.
>
> But when we tested HID power supplies, we cycled them on/off 10,000 times in
heat-stressed environments, NOT 2,500 times an hour.
>
> Is is possible that the OEM of the lamps and/or HID power supplies would provide
a written guarantee of the lamps and/or power supplies for the intended use
in aircraft Wig-wagging? HELL NO.
>
> Would it be better (only in term of lifetime) to wig-wag HIDs or LEDs? No doubt
about it, LEDs.
>
> Is it be vaguely possible that the HIDs will do fine? YES. Could it be that they
are worth their weight in gold if it prevents a collision with another aircraft
or a fat Canadian goose and to hell with any questions about possible short
lifetimes of the HID and/ power supply? YES!
>
> Is it a really bad idea to fly way up off the ground with an airplane you built
yourself? Errrrr......
>
> You decide.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390285#390285
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
On 12/10/2012 06:17 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
>
>
>> My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag module from Perihilion http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did use another device from him.... The wig-wag and lights worked great. Dick Fisher
>
> Thanks, Dick. I still sell the wigwags which work on nearly anything, but the
HIDs tripped me up when they first appeared. There are three things to keep in
mind:
>
> 1) They must be warmed up 20-30 seconds or so first.
> 2) They need a surge suppressor since the initial lamp turn-on neatly exceeds
the mosfet current capability.
> 3) They need a voltage clipper to prevent the starting voltage from getting back
to the mosfet.The zener clippers should be near the ballast but not between
the ballast and the lamp.
>
> BTW: here is my tirade against wig-wagging HIDs: In a previous life, I spent
almost three decades building high power xenon short-arc, HID, and halogen lamp
systems. So I have long experience with both the lamps and their power supplies
and their foibles. And I know in excruciating detail what is needed to wig-wag
them.
>
> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HID lamps because
they will have shorter lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an advantage of HID
lamps disappears quickly if one abuses them by (Oh, let's say) 2500 restarts
per hour! Many problems with HIDs don't occur in any simple way either. There
are second- and even third- order problems to contend with. Furthermore, switched-mode
power supplies and starters are particularly failure-prone when abused.
I can guarantee that the manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty
their devices to be used in this fashion.
>
> So even though HIDs are the cat's meow, I'd use halogens or LEDs. It's true,
you can do deer-jacking at the other end of the runway with HIDs...but do you
really need to do that? I still advise people to use LEDs, or hold out for a little
while to get the LEDs you want. A couple CREE Ultrafires will land my airplane
now.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
Hi Eric,
I'm intrigued by your last comment. Assuming you weren't kidding, can
you compare the 'real world' performance of the CREEs to something we're
all familiar with, like the traditional 100W incandescent landing
(tractor) lights or the commonly used 50 & 75 watt MR16 10 degree halogens?
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d(at)shadowbrush.com> |
| Subject: | Removable comm antenna |
Hi all,
Knowing next to nothing about antenna installations, can I run this one
by you for a sanity check? I'd like to be able to quickly disconnect the
comm antenna on a regular base so I can throw a full body cover of my
motor glider.
The antenna sits on the top of the fuselage and currently is a simple
1/4 wave SS bent back whip antenna. Now I want to mount the fat part of
a Workman QDS1 inside the fuselage so it's flush with the outer skin.
Then drill a hole in the small part of the QDS1 and install the whisker
analog to Bob's article. Next is screwing an isolated BNC panel mount
into the QDS1 and make an electric connection between the middle
connector of the BNC and the QDS1. The QDS1 is isolated against the
fuselage. Would it need to be shielded as well? I could put it into an
aluminum box. Alternatively to the BNC, I could also go with a 3/8" to
SO-239 adapter.
What do you say, would that work?
Here are links to the parts:
Workman QDS1:
http://www.amazon.com/QUICK-DISCONNECT-Stainless-Antenna-thread/dp/B004X70UCO/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
Isolated BNC panel mount:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/BNC-148/BNC-JACK-ISOLATED-PANEL-MOUNT-CONNECTOR/1.html
Bob's article:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Antennas/DIY_Comm_Ant/DIY_Comm.html
Thanks much!
Holger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | 2012 List of Contributors |
Hi Matt,
I'm sorry I coulnd't contribute this year ... I am struggling to afford food
at the moment, but I do appreciate the work you do and your help.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:32 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2012 List of Contributors
-->
Dear Listers,
The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about a
week ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. It
is the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet
connection up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the
same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through
the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent
products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2012.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
At 08:44 PM 12/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Knowing next to nothing about antenna installations, can I run this
>one by you for a sanity check? I'd like to be able to quickly
>disconnect the comm antenna on a regular base so I can throw a full
>body cover of my motor glider.
Is this a metal airplane?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d(at)shadowbrush.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
On 12/12/12 8:01 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Is this a metal airplane?
>
Yes, Bob, it's an all metal plane.
Thanks,
Holger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
>The antenna sits on the top of the fuselage and currently is a
>simple 1/4 wave SS bent back whip antenna. Now I want to mount the
>fat part of a Workman QDS1 inside the fuselage so it's flush with
>the outer skin. Then drill a hole in the small part of the QDS1 and
>install the whisker analog to Bob's article. Next is screwing an
>isolated BNC panel mount into the QDS1 and make an electric
>connection between the middle connector of the BNC and the QDS1. The
>QDS1 is isolated against the fuselage. Would it need to be shielded
>as well? I could put it into an aluminum box. Alternatively to the
>BNC, I could also go with a 3/8" to SO-239 adapter.
Consider this alternative. Since this is a slow speed
airplane with relatively low duty cycle, perhaps something
simpler and less robust would be attractive.
Mount 7/16 x 1/2" stainless bolt on a phenolic/fiberglas
skin doubler over a clearance hole for bolt head. Drill
and tap both threaded end and head of bolt for 10-32 screw.
Tread antenna-length piece of 3/16" steel rod about 1/2"
of 10-32 thread. Mount bolt on doubler head facing up.
Thread antenna into bolt and secure with lock-nut. Attach
feed line directly to nut-side of bolt with 10-32 screw
and PIDG terminal. Use PIDG terminal to ground the shield
to one of the doubler attach screws.
Low parts count. Low number of mated joints in the RF
current paths.
Antenna can be easily dismounted and stowed.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Elliott" <swacpt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Z-13 Using PP Alternator |
I have the Plane Power 60 Amp alternator in my RV-7, which is about 95%
complete. I do not have an electronics background, so I question as to
whether or not I have wired my airplane correctly. I am using the
AeroElectric Z-13 diagram, but the Plane Power 60 amp alternator has an
internal regulator, and built in crowbar overvoltage protection.
Therefore I have modified Z-13 to eliminate the external regulator. Can
anyone tell me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not, what needs
to be changed to enable my electrical system to function correctly ?
Any assistance is appreciated.
Thanks, Larry Elliott, N422LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
On 12/12/12 2:57 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> by you for a sanity check? I'd like to be able to quickly disconnect the
> comm antenna on a regular base so I can throw a full body cover of my
> motor glider.
You certainly don't need all that extra hardware. Get or make an antenna
that terminates in a BNC male connector, and mount a BNC female
connector on top of the fuselage. You can get panel mount connectors
that install directly on RG-58 cable. Assuming your glider is
fiberglass, add 3 or 4 quarter-wave radial elements from the shell of
the BNC and extending outward along the inside surface of the fuselage.
You can then make a dummy plug, maybe dome shaped, that goes on the BNC
when you want to cover the aircraft to protect the connector and let the
cover slide over it freely.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator |
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
I did mine in a similar way with the red wire, but I didn't use the white
wire. Are you sure that illumination of that bulb means low voltage? I
was thinking it was a more general fault light. I used Bob's other little
low voltage warning circuit for the crucial low voltage role.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Larry Elliott wrote:
> I have the Plane Power 60 Amp alternator in my RV-7, which is about 95%
> complete. I do not have an electronics background, so I question as to
> whether or not I have wired my airplane correctly. I am using the
> AeroElectric Z-13 diagram, but the Plane Power 60 amp alternator has an
> internal regulator, and built in crowbar overvoltage protection. Therefore
> I have modified Z-13 to eliminate the external regulator. Can anyone tell
> me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not, what needs to be changed
> to enable my electrical system to function correctly ? Any assistance is
> appreciated.
> Thanks, Larry Elliott, N422LE
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project; now light color |
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Sacha,
I have the same basic parameters you describe, and to add to your
questions, I have noticed in the automotive sphere, the halogens appear in
light blue and yellow lensed versions as well. What say the experts is the
highest visibility of the lot in a wig-wag setup?
Day VFR
Best...
Bob Verwey
IO470 Bonanza A35 ZU-DLW
V6 Chevy Safari ZU-AJF
On 11 December 2012 22:49, Sacha wrote:
>
> I would like to install a landing light or two and for various reasons I
> am leaning towards LEDs.
>
> Can anyone recommend some products they are happy with? I mean both the
> bulbs and the lenses/mounting. If the products are automotive/easy/cheap
> to source all the better. I have two circular cutouts about 10cm (4.5in)
> in diameter which would be natural places to mount landing lights. Most of
> my flying is daytime VFR.
>
> Sacha
>
>
> On 11/dic/2012, at 15:10, "Eric M. Jones" wrote:
>
> emjones(at)charter.net>
> >
> >
> >> So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will
> wig/wag our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do
> that?
> >
> >
> > To make this abundantly and perfectly clear:...YES and NO.
> >
> > Personally I love LEDs more. But HIDs are amazing technology, and I can
> show you why they are the best source available for putting into a
> reflector.
> >
> > But when we tested HID power supplies, we cycled them on/off 10,000
> times in heat-stressed environments, NOT 2,500 times an hour.
> >
> > Is is possible that the OEM of the lamps and/or HID power supplies would
> provide a written guarantee of the lamps and/or power supplies for the
> intended use in aircraft Wig-wagging? HELL NO.
> >
> > Would it be better (only in term of lifetime) to wig-wag HIDs or LEDs?
> No doubt about it, LEDs.
> >
> > Is it be vaguely possible that the HIDs will do fine? YES. Could it be
> that they are worth their weight in gold if it prevents a collision with
> another aircraft or a fat Canadian goose and to hell with any questions
> about possible short lifetimes of the HID and/ power supply? YES!
> >
> > Is it a really bad idea to fly way up off the ground with an airplane
> you built yourself? Errrrr......
> >
> > You decide.
> >
> > --------
> > Eric M. Jones
> > www.PerihelionDesign.com
> > 113 Brentwood Drive
> > Southbridge, MA 01550
> > (508) 764-2072
> > emjones(at)charter.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390285#390285
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator |
Larry,
<< Can anyone tell me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not,
what needs to be changed to enable my electrical system to function
correctly ? >>
Minor point. You are missing a power source for the main battery
contactor. Connect point "I" to point "S" on your diagram.
Tom Kuffel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator |
At 12:39 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote:
>I did mine in a similar way with the red wire, but I didn't use the
>white wire. Are you sure that illumination of that bulb means low
>voltage? I was thinking it was a more general fault light. I used
>Bob's other little low voltage warning circuit for the crucial low
>voltage role.
Good catch. I agree that incorporation of the PP product
into Z-13 is correct. I also suggest that the alternator
inop lite built into the PP product be suplimented if not
replaced by a dedicated active notification of low voltage.
Eric has some product. I'll have some product again soon.
If you're of a mind to roll your own, you could consider
http://tinyurl.com/6mvso29
How ever you achieve it, independent notification
of bus voltage below 13.0 volts is a really good
idea.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
>You certainly don't need all that extra hardware. Get or make an
>antenna that terminates in a BNC male connector, and mount a BNC
>female connector on top of the fuselage. You can get panel mount
>connectors that install directly on RG-58 cable. Assuming your
>glider is fiberglass, add 3 or 4 quarter-wave radial elements from
>the shell of the BNC and extending outward along the inside surface
>of the fuselage. You can then make a dummy plug, maybe dome shaped,
>that goes on the BNC when you want to cover the aircraft to protect
>the connector and let the cover slide over it freely.
Another good idea. I seem to recall somebody
here on the list used a 'rubber duck' antenna
for a hand-held as his choice of removable
external antennas.
I have crimp-on, bulkhead mount BNC connectors
in stock if you want to go that route and need
one.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d(at)shadowbrush.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removable comm antenna |
On 12/12/12 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Another good idea. I seem to recall somebody
> here on the list used a 'rubber duck' antenna
> for a hand-held as his choice of removable
> external antennas.
Thank you, Bob and DL for your suggestions.
Bob, your solution isn't fully clear to me. Is the 3/16" rod silver
soldered into the 10-32 screw? To disconnect, one would unscrew the
10-32 screw? If the antenna is bent back, that may be a little tricky, no?
I've seen BNC connectors used as antenna bases on ultralights but wasn't
sure about the speed limits. Mine has a 100kts cruise. The BNC
connectors that looked beefy enough also looked pretty draggy. Same for
antennas that have a BNC mount. Bob, you think your crimp-on BNC
connector would support a whip antenna, vs. a rubber duck one? In this
case I'd like to order it from you. I guess I could machine a stainless
steel support sleeve to beef up the antenna side BNC.
Thanks!
Holger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2012 List of Contributors |
| From: | "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington" <dee.whittington(at)gmail.com> |
Matt,
I've donated to you for years. I and my three partners continue to build
our Sportsman and hopefully will fly in the Spring. However, this year I
held off donating because I'm waiting for an update to the Kitlog Pro
computer program you own. When you purchased Kitlog Pro, you said you would
clean it up and make it easier to use. As of now the interface is really
clunky and it cannot handle multiple builders of a single project,
something that in my experience is not uncommon.
Have you decided such improvement of Kitlog Pro is not something you are
willing to spend time on? If you did I would enthusiastically endorse it to
other builders and start donating again.
Dee Whittington
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
> >
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about
> a week ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors.
> It is the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and
> Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and
> Internet connection up and running!
>
> You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the
> same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
November 14, 2012 - December 12, 2012
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-lm