AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-pc
September 03, 2019 - October 15, 2019
>
> Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been
> massaging off and on for a few months.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf
>
>
> One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity
> pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered
> with Z10-20 a few years back.
>
> This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along
> with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed
> here on the list a few months back.
>
> The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good
> thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.
> We're still stuck with one . . . only one.
>
> __
>
> __ Bob . . .
>
>
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
>
> /Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. /Deut. 10:19
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
| From: | "fidot" <web(at)79ft.net> |
Well folks,
Will soon need to crimp a number of large AMP terminals to some large wires, and
been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I had for a while.
I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicit thoughts and
feedback.
General notes:
I got my crimper in ~2014, so YMMV (they might've changed the "jaw" dies).
It has hexagonal dies, like the ones in "jaws.jpg" attachment below.
Crimps were made, then hacksawed apart, and cut polished some with a deburring
wheel.
Setup: #8 wire in an AMP lug.
My problem is, I always suspected that these jaw dies are mis-labeled, because
using "nominal" dies does not produce a nice hexagonal crimp. Specifically, it
feels like they are labeled about 4 AWG steps too high (ie, dies labeled 4 AWG
have the hex "hole" that, when closed, is just larger than 8 AWG wire)
And now, we get to the gist of this report.
Test #1. Using jaws labeled for 8 AWG.
Hex opening in them is much smaller than the wire.
Notice how it's this weird pinched, rather than hexagonal, shape (especially well
obvious on the cutaway pic). Also, crimping adds this weird "jog" to the length
of the terminal. Overall though, aside from the strange shape, very good
crimp. Note: on cutaway, the "spots" are dust specs I caught in the pic and noticed
just now :(. They are not crimp defects, like in test #3 below).
Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 6 AWG.
Opening is still smaller than the wire.
Initially, here, I got those "wings" to the crimp, too; but then I turned the crimp
90 degrees and crimped it again, "smashing them in". Notice how mangled up
that whole business is (and without "smashing in" the "wings", it looks just
like the #8 jaws crimp; just with thinner "wings").
Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 4 AWG.
This procuced a nice hex, as expected; and no surprise - the opening on the jaws
is just about the same size as the wire; so with added thickness of material
from the terminal itself it went well.
However, notice on the cutaway you can see some "spots" - those are "cavities",
so makes me thing that it could've been compressed just a tad more.
Overall, my personal thoughts?
Either use nominal or 4 sizes "up" (test #1 or #3). I am probably leaning towards
#1, because, though ugly, that crimp is _definitely_ not gonna rot from the
inside. ...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491172#491172
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_4_2_930.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_4_1_105.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_6_3_207.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_6_2_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_8_3_686.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_8_2_152.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_8_1_734.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jaws_937.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: warning lights for engine T&Ps |
| From: | "fatimaameen0" <lucasaiden88(at)gmail.com> |
Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List is the topic of my assignment
and I dont know anything about it. I am looking forward to give it a start
but really dont know what to write and mention in my assignment as an opening
base. I have https://easywritingservice.com/buy-term-papers/. Any help would
really be appreciated here!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491178#491178
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: warning lights for engine T&Ps |
At 05:10 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
>"fatimaameen0"
>
>Matronics Email Lists Forum Index ->
>AeroElectric-List is the topic of my assignment
>and I don=99t know anything about it. I am
>looking forward to give it a start but really
>don=99t know what to write and mention in my
>assignment as an opening base. I have
>https://easywritingservice.com/buy-term-papers/.
>Any help would really be appreciated here!
An interloper of unknown intent . . .
IGNORE
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into
>the core diagram.
>
>I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard
>for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and
>the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps
>typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3
>amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.
>
>So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just
>the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I
>planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout
>booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.
>
>I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light
>that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup
>alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say
>something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."
>
>Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it
>that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the
>engine instruments.
Boost converters are available for
just about any size . . . but keep
in mind that the 'boost' is necessary
for a few hundred milliseconds and
real loads are the standby values
for transceivers . . . not the max.
"Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever
your static endurance loads may be is
entirely practical.
The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost
has to initiate before the starter
contactor closes and needs to sustain
past (1) rise in battery voltage due
to expiration of inrush current or (2)
contactor opening, which ever happens
first. I'm fiddling with some ways to
get that to happen.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AM fidot wrote:
>
> Well folks,
>
> Will soon need to crimp a number of large AMP terminals to some large
> wires, and been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I
> had for a while.
>
> I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicit
> thoughts and feedback.
>
> General notes:
>
> I got my crimper in ~2014, so YMMV (they might've changed the "jaw" dies)
.
>
> It has hexagonal dies, like the ones in "jaws.jpg" attachment below.
>
> Crimps were made, then hacksawed apart, and cut polished some with a
> deburring wheel.
>
> Setup: #8 wire in an AMP lug.
>
> My problem is, I always suspected that these jaw dies are mis-labeled,
> because using "nominal" dies does not produce a nice hexagonal crimp.
> Specifically, it feels like they are labeled about 4 AWG steps too high
> (ie, dies labeled 4 AWG have the hex "hole" that, when closed, is just
> larger than 8 AWG wire)
>
> And now, we get to the gist of this report.
>
> Test #1. Using jaws labeled for 8 AWG.
>
> Hex opening in them is much smaller than the wire.
>
> Notice how it's this weird pinched, rather than hexagonal, shape
> (especially well obvious on the cutaway pic). Also, crimping adds this
> weird "jog" to the length of the terminal. Overall though, aside from the
> strange shape, very good crimp. Note: on cutaway, the "spots" are dust
> specs I caught in the pic and noticed just now :(. They are not crimp
> defects, like in test #3 below).
>
> Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 6 AWG.
>
> Opening is still smaller than the wire.
>
> Initially, here, I got those "wings" to the crimp, too; but then I turned
> the crimp 90 degrees and crimped it again, "smashing them in". Notice how
> mangled up that whole business is (and without "smashing in" the "wings",
> it looks just like the #8 jaws crimp; just with thinner "wings").
>
> Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 4 AWG.
>
> This procuced a nice hex, as expected; and no surprise - the opening on
> the jaws is just about the same size as the wire; so with added thickness
> of material from the terminal itself it went well.
>
> However, notice on the cutaway you can see some "spots" - those are
> "cavities", so makes me thing that it could've been compressed just a tad
> more.
>
> Overall, my personal thoughts?
>
> Either use nominal or 4 sizes "up" (test #1 or #3). I am probably leaning
> towards #1, because, though ugly, that crimp is _definitely_ not gonna ro
t
> from the inside. ...
>
>
> I bought mine from Jet (was significantly cheaper than HF at the time,
though they seem to be out of stock now):
https://jet.com/product/detail/044de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla:
ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improvement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_
tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:PLA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_
c:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&cl
ickid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d
8-66d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrLXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSn
EMlvZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNREALw_wcB
Most of the Asian brands seem to be the same device. Mine has numbers on
the dies, but without the 'AWG'. I ran into similar frustrations on sizes,
until I realized that the numbers on mine seem to be *metric* wire sizes:
https://www.lapptannehill.com/resources/technical-information/metric-to-awg
-conversion-chart
If you scroll though that Jet link, they list both the AWG sizes and the
metric sizes for the dies; just not in a cross referenced chart. So it took
a little digging (as in, googling) to figure out what was happening.
Somewhat of a shock to discover that the USA ain't the center of the
universe, like we've always thought. ;-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The Rotax 912iS engine outputs engine parameter data via CAN Bus A and
via CAN Bus B. The SkyView System Installation Guide - Revision AE
https://www.dynonavionics.com/includes/guides/SkyView_HDX_Pilots_User_Guide-Rev_D_v15_4.pdf
on page 7-37 has a wiring diagram showing SV-EMS-
221 pins 36 and 37 connected to both CAN Bus A and CAN Bus B wired in
parallel. I know nothing about a CAN Bus. But it seems to me that if Rotax
had intended for both CAN Buses to be connected in parallel, that they would
have provided only one CAN Bus instead of two. Can someone explain why it
is OK to connect the two Rotax CAN Buses in parallel? Thanks
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491184#491184
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
Not to crimp a style,
What is the problem with soldering the connection??? (of course using a lot
of heat and plenty of solder after crimping as much as possible with a vic
e-grip)
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2019 8:15 am
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaround
ary
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AM fidot wrote:
Well folks,
Will soon need to=C2- crimp a number of large AMP terminals to some large
wires, and been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I h
ad for a while.
I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicit thoughts
and feedback.
General notes:
I got my crimper in ~2014, so YMMV (they might've changed the "jaw" dies).
It has hexagonal dies, like the ones in "jaws.jpg" attachment below.
Crimps were made, then hacksawed apart, and cut polished some with a deburr
ing wheel.
Setup: #8 wire in an AMP lug.
My problem is, I always suspected that these jaw dies are mis-labeled, beca
use using "nominal" dies does not produce a nice hexagonal crimp. Specifica
lly, it feels like they are labeled about 4 AWG steps too high (ie, dies la
beled 4 AWG have the hex "hole" that, when closed, is just larger than 8 AW
G wire)
And now, we get to the gist of this report.
Test #1. Using jaws labeled for 8 AWG.
Hex opening in them is much smaller than the wire.
Notice how it's this weird pinched, rather than hexagonal, shape (especiall
y well obvious on the cutaway pic). Also, crimping adds this weird "jog" to
the length of the terminal. Overall though, aside from the strange shape,
very good crimp. Note: on cutaway, the "spots" are dust specs I caught in t
he pic and noticed just now :(. They are not crimp defects, like in test #3
below).
Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 6 AWG.
Opening is still smaller than the wire.
Initially, here, I got those "wings" to the crimp, too; but then I turned t
he crimp 90 degrees and crimped it again, "smashing them in". Notice how ma
ngled up that whole business is (and without "smashing in" the "wings", it
looks just like the #8 jaws crimp; just with thinner "wings").
Test #2. Using jaws labeled for 4 AWG.
This procuced a nice hex, as expected; and no surprise - the opening on the
jaws is just about the same size as the wire; so with added thickness of m
aterial from the terminal itself it went well.
However, notice on the cutaway you can see some "spots" - those are "caviti
es", so makes me thing that it could've been compressed just a tad more.
Overall, my personal thoughts?
Either use nominal or 4 sizes "up" (test #1 or #3). I am probably leaning t
owards #1, because, though ugly, that crimp is _definitely_ not gonna rot f
rom the inside. ...
I bought mine from Jet (was significantly cheaper than HF at the time, thou
gh they seem to be out of stock now):=C2-https://jet.com/product/detail/0
44de210e0e54490b3104f2933a8c4e9?jcmp=pla:ggl:nj_roc_gen_tools_home_improv
ement_a2:tools_home_improvement_power_hand_tools_strippers_crimpers_a2:na:P
LA_1062736267_53681764978_pla-575440131752_c:na:na:na:2PLA15&pid=kenshoo_
int&c=1062736267&is_retargeting=true&clickid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-
66d818f2a6db&kclid=9b0fea02-66eb-4b09-a0d8-66d818f2a6db&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr
LXXBRCXARIsAIttmRMz6bd20WicKga0R-gwf9V31rSnEMlvZaDPr9oFZflf-2UX0q9m0JgaAsNR
EALw_wcB
Most of the Asian brands seem to be the same device. Mine has numbers on th
e dies, but without the 'AWG'. I ran into similar frustrations on sizes, un
til I realized that the numbers on mine seem to be *metric* wire sizes:http
s://www.lapptannehill.com/resources/technical-information/metric-to-awg-con
version-chart
If you scroll though that Jet link, they list both the AWG sizes and the me
tric sizes for the dies; just not in a cross referenced chart. So it took a
little digging (as in, googling) to figure out what was happening.
Somewhat of a shock to discover that the USA ain't the center of the univer
se, like we've always thought. ;-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Le 04/09/2019 16:26, user9253 a crit:
> and 37 connected to both CAN Bus A and CAN Bus B wired in
> parallel. I know nothing about a CAN Bus. But it seems to me that if Rotax
> had intended for both CAN Buses to be connected in parallel, that they would
> have provided only one CAN Bus instead of two. Can someone explain why it
> is OK to connect the two Rotax CAN Buses in parallel? Thanks
>
Joe and all,
Two years ago I had the opportunity to design the wiring for a 912iS
equipped aircraft.
Here is what I was told by a person having participated in the design of
the Rotax Can Bus system :
- Rotax did not design their CAN Bus systems, but outsourced the design.
- At the beginning Rotax advised it was OK to connect both CAN Buses, so
Garmin and other avionics manufacturers chose this path.
- Somewhere along the line Rotax was instructed about the disadvantages
of connecting both buses, and so changed its installation instructions.
- Garmin and other manufacturers didn't change the desing of their
products, keeping the both-connected approach.
FWIW,
--
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into
>the core diagram.
>
>I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard
>for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and
>the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps
>typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3
>amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.
>
>So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just
>the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I
>planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout
>booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.
>
>I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light
>that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup
>alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say
>something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."
>
>Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it
>that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the
>engine instruments.
Boost converters are available for
just about any size . . . but keep
in mind that the 'boost' is necessary
for a few hundred milliseconds and
real loads are the standby values
for transceivers . . . not the max.
"Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever
your static endurance loads may be is
entirely practical.
The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost
has to initiate before the starter
contactor closes and needs to sustain
past (1) rise in battery voltage due
to expiration of inrush current or (2)
contactor opening, which ever happens
first. I'm fiddling with some ways to
get that to happen.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
At 08:05 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AM fidot
><web(at)79ft.net> wrote:
><web(at)79ft.net>
>
>Well folks,
>
>Will soon need to=C2 crimp a number of large AMP
>terminals to some large wires, and been playing
>around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I had for a while.
>
>I decided to write this report part to
>contribute, part to solicit thoughts and feedback.
>Somewhat of a shock to discover that the USA
>ain't the center of the universe, like we've always thought. ;-)
>
>Charlie
Thanks for sharing your experience and
observations with this tool. I purchased
one about 10 years ago with similarly
high expectations. I found that the die
markings bore no real relevance to
the real world.
I too accomplished a few crimps onto
various un-insulated terminals and
found that with a little fiddling,
a FEW combinations of terminals and
wire could be artfully accommodated.
Wound up taking the tool back 'cause
it would NOT do the crimps most
needed (4 and 2AWG). Too bad. The
hydraulics were fine but the die
set was essentially useless.
I considered making new die sets
but unless I was going to seek a market
for production, return on investment
was poor.
In answer to Rich's suggestion, YES . . .
soldering is a perfectly reasonable
alternative . . . but without vice grips.
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Can someone explain why it
>is OK to connect the two Rotax CAN Buses in parallel? Thanks
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
The CAN bus has been around for a very
long time. See:
https://tinyurl.com/lc2mygs
Originally crafted for the automotive
world, it has proven to offer great
utility just about everywhere lots
of electro-whizzies need to talk to
each other on a 'party line' bus.
Not all CAN busses are the same.
Each whizzy needs to be 'educated' as
to the protocol for transmitting and
receiving messages/data while behaving
in a neighborly fashion with respect
to 'collisions' on the bus.
So the idea that two otherwise independent
CAN systems can be tied together is
not far fetched as long as every
whizzy on BOTH busses share the same
messaging protocols.
For example, you might purchase an
oil pressure instrument originally
intended for service in a over-the-road
truck with an expectation that it
would accurately display oil pressure
on your engine.
Yeah . . . maybe . . . assuming the bus
messaging protocols are the same. Then
there are risks that more than one 'talker'
with the same message i.d. would
promulgate confusion amongst 'listeners'
having an interest in those messages.
Proceed with caution.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
Hi Joe,
the 912iS has two ECU's each of em having its own CAN connection. Now
as the Dynon EMS 221 has only one CAN Bus interface you need to hook up
both in parallel, the CAN Bus "packet ID" will tell which ECU it's
coming from as it is a "broadcast" protocol all packets should arrive at
the 221, if you want to have more redundancy you might be able to hook
up two EMS 221 in order to have both ECU's on different engine boxes
(check with Dynon).
As it is a bus it will work with one EMS only.
Hope it helps a bit to understand.
Cheers Werner
On 04.09.2019 16:26, user9253 wrote:
>
> The Rotax 912iS engine outputs engine parameter data via CAN Bus A and
> via CAN Bus B. The SkyView System Installation Guide - Revision AE
> https://www.dynonavionics.com/includes/guides/SkyView_HDX_Pilots_User_Guide-Rev_D_v15_4.pdf
> on page 7-37 has a wiring diagram showing SV-EMS-
> 221 pins 36 and 37 connected to both CAN Bus A and CAN Bus B wired in
> parallel. I know nothing about a CAN Bus. But it seems to me that if Rotax
> had intended for both CAN Buses to be connected in parallel, that they would
> have provided only one CAN Bus instead of two. Can someone explain why it
> is OK to connect the two Rotax CAN Buses in parallel? Thanks
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491184#491184
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Smith <madriver42(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
Bob and Others,
A few years ago...many years ago...I was in the same quandary of how to
crimp a ferrule to wire.
I did not want to go the solder route as a lot of feedback stated that this
was not the best for many reasons. Then I remembered an old farmer trick
for making a "die". I scrounged around and found a regular hex nut of
suitable size, cut it in half - remember the threaded inside diameter will
decrease - and used the "nut die" over the ferrule in a vice to crimp; of
course I rotated it to equalize the crimp all the way around. Sure it left
thread marks but they were covered with shrink wrap. BTW if you don't want
the marks you could ream out the nut. AND if you want longevity you could
use grade eight material.
To tell the truth this was used originally on my 1954 Case tractor rebuild
and worked so well I adopted the procedure to my CH 701 build a few years
back. No problems.
Just thinking !!!
Phil
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:05 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AM fidot wrote:
>
>
> Well folks,
>
> Will soon need to=C3=82 crimp a number of large AMP terminals to some la
rge
> wires, and been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I
> had for a while.
>
> I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicit
> thoughts and feedback.
>
>
> Somewhat of a shock to discover that the USA ain't the center of the
> universe, like we've always thought. ;-)
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and
> observations with this tool. I purchased
> one about 10 years ago with similarly
> high expectations. I found that the die
> markings bore no real relevance to
> the real world.
>
> I too accomplished a few crimps onto
> various un-insulated terminals and
> found that with a little fiddling,
> a FEW combinations of terminals and
> wire could be artfully accommodated.
>
> Wound up taking the tool back 'cause
> it would NOT do the crimps most
> needed (4 and 2AWG). Too bad. The
> hydraulics were fine but the die
> set was essentially useless.
>
> I considered making new die sets
> but unless I was going to seek a market
> for production, return on investment
> was poor.
>
> In answer to Rich's suggestion, YES . . .
> soldering is a perfectly reasonable
> alternative . . . but without vice grips.
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Smith <madriver42(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Philip Smith <madriver42(at)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper
messaroundary
Bob and Others,
A few years ago...many years ago...I was in the same quandary of how to
crimp a ferrule to wire.
I did not want to go the solder route as a lot of feedback stated that this
was not the best for many reasons. Then I remembered an old farmer trick
for making a "die". I scrounged around and found a regular hex nut of
suitable size, cut it in half - remember the threaded inside diameter will
decrease - and used the "nut die" over the ferrule in a vice to crimp; of
course I rotated it to equalize the crimp all the way around. Sure it left
thread marks but they were covered with shrink wrap. BTW if you don't want
the marks you could ream out the nut. AND if you want longevity you could
use grade eight material.
To tell the truth this was used originally on my 1954 Case tractor rebuild
and worked so well I adopted the procedure to my CH 701 build a few years
back. No problems.
Just thinking !!!
Phil
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 08:05 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AM fidot wrote:
>
>
> Well folks,
>
> Will soon need to=C3=82 crimp a number of large AMP terminals to some la
rge
> wires, and been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper I
> had for a while.
>
> I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicit
> thoughts and feedback.
>
>
> Somewhat of a shock to discover that the USA ain't the center of the
> universe, like we've always thought. ;-)
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and
> observations with this tool. I purchased
> one about 10 years ago with similarly
> high expectations. I found that the die
> markings bore no real relevance to
> the real world.
>
> I too accomplished a few crimps onto
> various un-insulated terminals and
> found that with a little fiddling,
> a FEW combinations of terminals and
> wire could be artfully accommodated.
>
> Wound up taking the tool back 'cause
> it would NOT do the crimps most
> needed (4 and 2AWG). Too bad. The
> hydraulics were fine but the die
> set was essentially useless.
>
> I considered making new die sets
> but unless I was going to seek a market
> for production, return on investment
> was poor.
>
> In answer to Rich's suggestion, YES . . .
> soldering is a perfectly reasonable
> alternative . . . but without vice grips.
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
Greetings Phillip,
What were some of the reasons for nixing the solder?=C2- or where can I f
ind them.
Thanks
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Smith <madriver42(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2019 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaround
ary
Bob and Others,
A few years ago...many years ago...I was in the same quandary=C2-of how t
o crimp a ferrule to wire.I did not want to go the solder route as a lot of
feedback stated that this was not the best for many reasons.=C2- Then I
remembered an old farmer trick for making a "die".=C2- I scrounged around
and found a regular hex nut of suitable size, cut it in half - remember th
e threaded inside diameter will decrease - and used the "nut die" over the
ferrule in a vice to crimp;=C2- of course I rotated it to equalize the cr
imp all the way around.=C2- Sure it left thread marks but they were cover
ed with shrink wrap.=C2- BTW if you don't want the marks you could ream o
ut the nut.=C2- AND if you want longevity you could use grade eight mater
ial.To tell the truth this was used originally on my 1954 Case tractor rebu
ild and worked so well I adopted the procedure to my CH 701 build a few yea
rs back.=C2- No problems.Just thinking !!!
Phil
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 10:37 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroe
lectric.com> wrote:
At 08:05 AM 9/4/2019, you wrote:
On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:12 AMfidot wrote:
- Well folks,
- Will soon need to=C3=82=C2- crimp a number of large AMP terminals
tosome large wires, and been playing around with a Harbor Freight hydrauli
ccrimper I had for a while.
- I decided to write this report part to contribute, part to solicitt
houghts and feedback.
=C2-
Somewhat of a shockto discover that the USA ain't the center of the univers
e, like we'vealways thought. ;-)
Charlie
=C2- Thanks for sharing your experience and
=C2- observations with this tool. I purchased
=C2- one about 10 years ago with similarly
=C2- high expectations. I found that the die
=C2- markings bore no real relevance to
=C2- the real world.
=C2- I too accomplished a few crimps onto
=C2- various un-insulated terminals and
=C2- found that with a little fiddling,
=C2- a FEW combinations of terminals and
=C2- wire could be artfully accommodated.
=C2- Wound up taking the tool back 'cause
=C2- it would NOT do the crimps most
=C2- needed (4 and 2AWG). Too bad. The
=C2- hydraulics were fine but the die
=C2- set was essentially useless.
=C2- I considered making new die sets
=C2- but unless I was going to seek a market
=C2- for production, return on investment
=C2- was poor.
=C2- In answer to Rich's suggestion, YES . . .
=C2- soldering is a perfectly reasonable
=C2- alternative=C2- . . . but without vice grips.
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
On 9/4/2019 11:28 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> In answer to Rich's suggestion, YES . . .
> soldering is a perfectly reasonable
> alternative . . . but without vice grips.
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf
> <http://aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf>
Excellent solution here in my limited experience. I soldered up all my
fat wires on a Z-14 RV-10 (plenty of fat wires there) about 10-12 years
ago. 1200 hours later, all good. The wedges are the key.
One might solder or crimp, but I can see why one might want to avoid
doing both.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
>
>Excellent solution here in my limited experience. I soldered up all
>my fat wires on a Z-14 RV-10 (plenty of fat wires there) about 10-12
>years ago. 1200 hours later, all good. The wedges are the key.
>
>One might solder or crimp, but I can see why one might want to avoid
>doing both.
Correct!!!! They are functionally interchangeable differing
only in tools and techniques.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
>
>Excellent solution here in my limited experience. I soldered up all
>my fat wires on a Z-14 RV-10 (plenty of fat wires there) about 10-12
>years ago. 1200 hours later, all good. The wedges are the key.
>
>One might solder or crimp, but I can see why one might want to avoid
>doing both.
Correct!!!! They are functionally interchangeable differing
only in tools and techniques.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
>
>Excellent solution here in my limited experience. I soldered up all
>my fat wires on a Z-14 RV-10 (plenty of fat wires there) about 10-12
>years ago. 1200 hours later, all good. The wedges are the key.
>
>One might solder or crimp, but I can see why one might want to avoid
>doing both.
Correct!!!! They are functionally interchangeable differing
only in tools and techniques.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight hydraulic crimper messaroundary |
>
>Excellent solution here in my limited experience. I soldered up all
>my fat wires on a Z-14 RV-10 (plenty of fat wires there) about 10-12
>years ago. 1200 hours later, all good. The wedges are the key.
>
>One might solder or crimp, but I can see why one might want to avoid
>doing both.
Correct!!!! They are functionally interchangeable differing
only in tools and techniques.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
We're going to remodel our panel soon. Some of the things I want to do
better than the existing setup are to simplify operation, provide anti-sag
for starting, and provide some backup power.
Most of the components I plan to install have main power and aux power
inputs. Aux power inputs (also called aircraft power 2, etc) would be
powered from the aux (anti-sag) bus. Almost everything on the aux bus
would also be primarily powered from the main bus, and only be pulling from
the aux when the main voltage is low. That's all built in to the
components.
I don't mind an extra battery, especially if I can convince myself that a
small EarthX is something I can live with. It does a few nice things,
including limiting is charge rate. But that's not what I'd like to discuss
now. I would like comments on this anti-sag idea.
I think separating the starter contactor coil from the main bus would
eliminate the timeliness issue that Bob described:
The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost
has to initiate before the starter
contactor closes and needs to sustain
past (1) rise in battery voltage due
to expiration of inrush current or (2)
contactor opening, which ever happens
first. I'm fiddling with some ways to
get that to happen.
Here's a work in progress. Obviously not complete, no alternator shown,
lot's of detail omitted, etc, but the starter contactor power is shown.
That's the key, unless I'm missing something.
Please ignore the current ratings. They're not complete yet.
--Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | anthony foran <tony_4n(at)yahoo.com.au> |
| Subject: | aeroelectric digest |
Hi Matt,=C2- Is the aeroelectric list digest still being sent out. I stop
ped receiving it several weeks ago.=C2-
thought i may need to donate again so did that a few days ago. Also checked
on you list of unsubscribed email addresses and not there.regards.=C2- T
ony
Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The starter contactor is normally energized by switching the positive wire.
It is dangerous to switch the negative wire. If that wire ever gets shorted
to ground, the starter motor will spin the prop, causing damage or injury.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491247#491247
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
>
>Here's a work in progress.=C2 Obviously not
>complete, no alternator shown, lot's of detail
>omitted, etc, but the starter contactor power is
>shown.=C2 That's the key, unless I'm missing something.
There are no 'timing' issues with using
a second battery for brownout protection.
Consider Z-35 for second battery and
simply leaving the aux battery relay
open until after the engine is running.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
Good point, and easy enough. Thanks!
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:48 AM user9253 wrote:
>
> The starter contactor is normally energized by switching the positive wire.
> It is dangerous to switch the negative wire. If that wire ever gets
> shorted
> to ground, the starter motor will spin the prop, causing damage or injury.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491247#491247
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
Thanks Bob,
What is the cost of accidently leaving the aux battery on during start? Is
it just a sag, or does starter-sized current try to run through the small
relay and associated wiring? If the main is weak, will the aux battery
work that much harder? I'm concerned that a relatively simple mistake like
leaving the aux batt on during start will do some damage.
(I've put switches in the wrong position before...)
--Dave
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 10:13 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> Here's a work in progress.=C3=82 Obviously not complete, no alternator s
hown,
> lot's of detail omitted, etc, but the starter contactor power is shown.
=C3=82
> That's the key, unless I'm missing something.
>
>
> There are no 'timing' issues with using
> a second battery for brownout protection.
> Consider Z-35 for second battery and
> simply leaving the aux battery relay
> open until after the engine is running.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Safety For Electrical System Workers Essay |
| From: | "CaptainCaptain" <mattykolej(at)gmail.com> |
When I saw the theme, I couldn't imagine what students should write about. I would probably solve this problem with ordering this essay on https://www.myassignmentwriting.com.au/ and I know that it is not very cheap but most of the students actually can afford such services I think. Most likely.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491258#491258
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
At 01:58 PM 9/9/2019, you wrote:
>Good point, and easy enough.=C2 Thanks!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 05:07 PM 9/9/2019, you wrote:
>Bob, what cad program do you use to draw your schematics? I would
>like to do a drawing of my system with the contractors and 700 2-10
>switch drawing, like you have.
>Thanks, Jerry Farek, Houston, TX
I use AutoCAD. Cut my teeth on version 2.17
running in a PC-XT about 35 years ago . . .
so it's kinda in my blood!
There are dozens of cad programs compatible
with the native AutoCAD .dwg file format.
Some are even free. Intellicad is a low
cost program that comes to mind. I've
posted this to the List so that others
with more experience outside the AutoCAD
corral can offer their own suggestions.
You can download any of the z-figures as
.dwg files here:
https://tinyurl.com/385dhl
There are some exemplar wire-books for
complete electrical documentation of
your project here:
https://tinyurl.com/9a5n8jb
These wirebook drawings are divided up
into 'views' each of which is an exemplar
system drawing that prints to an 8-1/2
x 11 inch page. You can pick and choose
from these to use as-is or modify to match
your design . . .will save you a LOT
of work for having created the whole
book from scratch.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Battery Idea Was: Speaking of Aux Batteries |
At 03:01 PM 9/9/2019, you wrote:
>Thanks Bob,
>
>What is the cost of accidently leaving the aux
>battery on during start?=C2 Is it just a sag, or
>does starter-sized current try to run through
>the small relay and associated wiring?=C2 If the
>main is weak, will the aux battery work that
>much harder?=C2 I'm concerned that a relatively
>simple mistake like leaving the aux batt on during start will do some
damage.
>
>(I've put switches in the wrong position before...)
Make the aux battery switch two pole
with second pole wired to disable
the starter contactor any time the aux
battery is ON.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
Jerry, a free program is available from Digikey-- take a look.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
cs.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 10, 2019 8:13 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Cad program
At 05:07 PM 9/9/2019, you wrote:
Bob,=C2- what cad program doyou use to draw your schematics?=C2- I woul
d like to do a drawing of mysystem with the contractors and 700 2-10 switch
drawing, like youhave.
Thanks, Jerry Farek, Houston, TX
=C2-
I use AutoCAD. Cut my teeth on version 2.17
running in a PC-XT about 35 years ago . . .
so it's kinda in my blood!
There are dozens of cad programs compatible
with the native AutoCAD .dwg file format.
Some are even free. Intellicad is a low
cost program that comes to mind. I've
posted this to the List so that others
with more experience outside the AutoCAD
corral can offer their own suggestions.
You can download any of the z-figures as
.dwg files here:
https://tinyurl.com/385dhl
There are some exemplar wire-books for
complete electrical documentation of
your project here:
https://tinyurl.com/9a5n8jb
These wirebook drawings are divided up
into 'views' each of which is an exemplar
system drawing that prints to an 8-1/2
x 11 inch page. You can pick and choose
from these to use as-is or modify to match
your design . . .will save you a LOT
of work for having created the whole
book from scratch.
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
There is a very easy to use and free program called Express.sch
https://www.expresspcb.com/download/primary-download-form/
They want your email address prior to downloading the software.
I have a special address for situations like this.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491270#491270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
I too used Express.sch over 10 years ago to document everything
electrical. Worked and still works great. Simple, small and easy.
The program is intended for circuit board design so electrical 'logic'
is sort of built in. But the key is that it's simple and easy.
On 9/10/2019 5:10 PM, user9253 wrote:
>
> There is a very easy to use and free program called Express.sch
> https://www.expresspcb.com/download/primary-download-form/
> They want your email address prior to downloading the software.
> I have a special address for situations like this.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491270#491270
>
>
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
At 02:33 PM 9/11/2019, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>
>Would it be possible to
>include
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples/LAIVP.DWG>LAIVP.DWG
>and
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Wirebook_Samples/SEMINAR.DWG>SEMINAR.DWG
>in the "Adobe Architecture Pdfs" folder as pdf files for easier viewing?
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Jim Heekin
Done . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Antennas do not necessarily have to be grounded to the airframe. But antennas
do need a properly sized ground plane for the frequency. Usually the ground plane
radius is greater than the antenna length. The larger the ground plane radius,
the better.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491303#491303
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fusible link question |
| From: | "JuliaScott" <shery26(at)getnada.com> |
An electronics is done for the good and all moved items for the candidates. The opinion making of the paperhelp.org reviews (https://www.bestessayservicereviews.com/essay-writing/paperhelp-org-review/) is structured for the future offers. It is done for the truly followed items for the perfect ND tool of the system in the light of the actual items for the candidates.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491311#491311
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Thanks for your reply.
As far as the size of the ground plane, I am constrained by the small dimensions
of the airplane. The ground plane should be larger, but there is no much that
I can do about it.
I try to improve everything else in order to get more range and less static. When
you say that antennas do not necessarily have to be grounded to the airframe,
you seem to imply that it would be better to ground the antenna, even if it
is not indispensable. In my case, because of the ground plane issue, I would
take any improvements, doesnt matter how small. Could you please confirm that,
ideally, radio antennas should be grounded to the airframe and provide a reference
for that (book, website, paper).
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491316#491316
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
You said tube structure . . . fabric or metal skin?
If fabric, a 5.6" alum disk .060 or so thick
is an appropriate ground plane.
Emacs!
If your fabric is 'tight' against a structural
tube, then the ground plane can go on the outside
surface. It would look cleaner if between skin
and tube. One or more clamps should secure the
ground plane to structure . . . not for electrical
'bonding' but for mechanical support.
Emacs!
Whether the ground is inside or outside the
skin, the antenna should mount in the center
with good electrical connection between antenna
base and the ground plane.
If metal skin, simply mount antenna to skin
but consider double of any practical size
to re-enforce the mounting surface to preclude
cracking around mounting hole due to aerodynamic
buffeting.
VHF comm antennas need good support to the
ship's tubular structure. If metal airplane,
ground antenna base to skin. If fabric covered
airplane, ground a suitable mounting plate
to the ship's structure then ground antenna
to the mounting plate. Ship's structure
becomes the ground plane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Bob N. posted today
"One or more clamps should secure the
ground plane to structure . . . not for electrical
'bonding' but for mechanical support."
In my opinion (I am no antenna expert), it is not necessary to connect an antenna
ground plane to the airframe. However, the airframe could be used as a ground
plane if of sufficient size and shape.
Radio frequency current and DC current behave entirely differently. What is an
open circuit to DC could be a short circuit for radio frequency current.
An antenna ground plane does not necessarily have to be straight or flat. Nor
does it have to be a sheet of metal. Curved strips of wire or metal tape that
radiate outward from the antenna base could serve as a ground plane. Experiment
to find something that works.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Antenna/
-
"ARRL Antenna Book" The 2 meter band is close to the aviation band.
-
https://ia801600.us.archive.org/7/items/TheArrlAntennaBook/Hall-TheArrlAntennaBook.pdf[
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491322#491322
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Bob,
Thanks for your post and for the sketch.
Please note that my airplane has a standard certificate. It is not experimental.
The antenna is mounted on a removable panel on the bottom of the airplane;
the antenna was installed professionally on the panel and I have not had any structural
problems in many years of flying. The panel is made of metal except
for a plexigas window and doubles as the radio antenna ground plane, even if
it is kind of small for that purpose. I have installed some metal tape that goes
over the plexigas trying to improve things. The panel is attached to a vertical
metal panel on each side with machine screws/anchor nuts. At the front,
the panel overlaps another metal panel and connects to a little beam with sheet
metal screws. At the back, the panel overlaps a fabric panel and connects
to a little beam with sheet metal screws.
As mentioned above, this panel is removable and needs to come out of the airplane
for maintenance purposes a few times a year. It would be difficult to make
modifications to this panel. I have noticed that the transponder antenna ground
plane is grounded to the plane tubular frame and I am just trying to establish
if the radio antenna panel should also be grounded or not and why.
Thanks for your help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491323#491323
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Many thanks for the additional information provided. I will go through the documents
linked to your post.
Please note that I have included additional information on my antenna set up in
my reply to the post of Bob.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491324#491324
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Since this is a factory built aircraft, and assuming that several of this brand
and model have been built without radio problems, then maybe the problem with
your radio is not an antenna design problem. Maybe there is a problem with the
coax or its connection at either end. Would it be difficult to replace the
coax?
What are the dimensions of the metal panel used for the ground plane? Have you
removed the antenna and reinstalled it to be sure that there is a good electrical
connection to the ground plane? We are talking about a com radio antenna,
right?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491325#491325
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
The airplane is a Pitts and Pitts are known for poor radio transmissions.
I know that I cannot get a perfect radio, I am just trying to improve on what I
have got.
The coax was replaced with a new one, made by a reputable avionics shop. That
made a difference.
The antenna (and yes, we are talking about a com antenna) was replaced with a new
one and was installed on the panel by a competent technician, paying particular
attention to getting a good electrical connection.
The dimensions of the ground plane are length 7" x width 14". The 14" width
is made up follow: central section: 6":, side sections: 4" with an angle of
15-20 degrees in relation to the central section.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491329#491329
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 10:24 AM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>
>The airplane is a Pitts and Pitts are known for poor radio transmissions.
>I know that I cannot get a perfect radio, I am just trying to
>improve on what I have got.
Do you still have the old coax?
I'd like to put my hands on it . . .
The antenna (and yes, we are talking about a com antenna) was
replaced with a new one and was installed on the panel by a competent
technician, paying particular attention to getting a good electrical
connection.
Hmmm . . . vhf comm is line-of-sight
bounded with very low path losses.
Except for 'shielding' effects of surrounding
structure, satisfactory communications can
be expected with rather low power and
less-than-perfect antennas.
The dimensions of the ground plane are length 7" x width 14". The
14" width is made up follows: central section: 6":, side sections:
4" with an angle of 15-20 degrees in relation to the central section.
. . . but attached to metal airframe
components at various places around
the edges? While not an 'ideal'
ground plane it should certainly
be adequate for all but the occasional
extreme range situation while x-country.
I am just trying to establish if the radio antenna panel should also
be grounded or not and why.
If there are numerous fasteners connecting
the removable panel to metallic components
of the airframe, it's unlikely that
any additional 'grounding' will produce
observable improvement.
You have a new antenna and coax . . . are
you still experiencing unsatisfactory
performance? Have you ever had occasion
to use a hand-held radio in this
airplane?
Sorry for the run-off into the weeds.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
7 x 14 inches is way too small for a ground plane if it is not attached to the
airframe on all 4 sides. So make your own ground plane. Here is a quote from
chapter 13 of Bob's book:
"VHF ground-planes can be fabricated from radial strips of copper foil, soldered
to a communing disk at the base of the antenna. Make these strips 1 wide and
trim them off 22 from the base of the vertical. 4 to 10 strips are recommended.
These may be cemented to the underside of the skin and structure. By fabricating
a commoning disk from copper, the entire assembly can be soldered."
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491332#491332
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Daily Summary Missing? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
I have not been receiving the daily posts summary by email for a while. Has that
feature been discontinued? John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491336#491336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Daily Summary Missing? |
At 03:20 PM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>
>I have not been receiving the daily posts summary by email for a
>while. Has that feature been discontinued? John
>
>
don't think so. try 'unsubscribing' and see
if you get the auto-responder verification
message. verify your unsubscribe request
then re-subscribe.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 01:06 PM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>
>7 x 14 inches is way too small for a ground plane if it is not
>attached to the airframe on all 4 sides.
While a long way from the idealized ground
plane, it's not insignificant. After all,
how much ground plane does a hand-held
transceiver have?
We're told that these aircraft have a
history of poor radio performance . . .
but they've been built in various types
and quantities for over 50 years. Given
that this is a t/c aircraft, I'm inclined
believe that the problem(s) with this
airplane may be more selective than a
poorly designed antenna installation.
We're advised that replacing the coax
made an improvement . . . and that
the antenna has been replaced with
extra attention to process. We're
not sure yet if this fixed things.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 01:06 PM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>
>7 x 14 inches is way too small for a ground plane if it is not
>attached to the airframe on all 4 sides.
While a long way from the idealized ground
plane, it's not insignificant. After all,
how much ground plane area does a hand-held
transceiver have?
We're told that these aircraft have a
history of poor radio performance . . .
but they've been built in various types
and quantities for over 50 years. Given
that this is a t/c aircraft, I'm inclined
to think that the problem(s) with this
airplane may be more selective than a
poorly designed antenna installation.
We're advised that replacing the coax
made an improvement . . . and that
the antenna has been replaced with
extra attention to process. We're
not sure yet if this fixed things.
Given the ease with which VHF communication
propagates between aviation facilities,
I'm inclined to believe that root cause
for unsatisfactory performance is more
profound than a soggy ground plane.
In the words of the immortal, slightly
short-circuited Number 5, "Input! Input!
I need more input!"
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Thanks to both for the additional comments.
I reply to the questions of Bob as follows:
I do not have the old coax any more
I have never used a hand-held radio in this airplane
The radio performance is ok for Class D operations, but not so good for Class
B and Class C, when you need to communicate from further out and clarity of communications
is even more important
As far as additional input, I can tell you that the radio harness was replaced
without appreciable changes
I am posting a file that includes 2 pictures of my panel/antenna. The copper strips
are just taped (not soldered) and there is no communing disk. The strips
do not extend laterally, because of the limited width of the panel. I assumed
that, as we normally fly towards the radio station we are talking to, that
would be kind of acceptable.
Could you please make comments on my copper foil strips and elaborate a little
further on how the set up described by Bob is in his book could be implemented
on my panel (keeping the panel removable from the airplane)?
Note: in my previous post with the dimensions of the ground plane I have just disregarded
the copper foil strips and I have assumed that the section of panel
behind the plexigas window and the double plate work together as a ground plane.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491345#491345
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pictures_196.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Daily Summary Missing? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
thanks, I'll try that. John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491348#491348
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
That copper tape does not do much good because it all goes in one direction. And
it is questionable if it is making good contact with the antenna mounting plate.
Here is a suggestion: Cut 4 pieces of coax each 22 or 23 inches long. Attach a
ring terminal to the shield of each coax (not the center conductor). Connect
one length of coax to each of the 4 antenna mounting screws using the ring terminals.
When the panel is mounted to the aircraft, arrange the coax ground plane
so that it extends outward in 4 different directions. Elastic cord attached
to the coax ends could help to position it.
This experiment is worth a try and will not cost much except your time.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491361#491361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | fuel transfer controller, revisited |
Hi guys,
In my homebuilt project, I have aux tank(s) that must be pumped to the main
tank for engine supply, on an engine that uses automotive style high
pressure injection with a regulator return line to the main tank. (Personal
preference vs the complexity of a 4-selection duplex valve)
Thought I'd tap the brain trust for how best to execute an idea for an
automated fuel transfer controller. Liquid level controllers are readily
available now, but most I've found are almost 'too clever' for what I want,
using simple bare wire for probes in a water tank. What I'd like is a
controller that could look to the variable voltage seen by our typical fuel
gauges/EFISs from 'standard' Stewart Warner type resistive sensors for
level sensing, instead of separate probes, optical sensors, etc.
For my AFS engine monitor circuit, the tank sensor, according to AFS:
'It will be pulled up to ~4v. So with the 40-240=84 you will see 0.1
to 1.0V
.'
Since the sensor goes to 40 ohms at full and is referenced to ground, That
means 1.0 V at empty, and 0.1 V at full. ( I suspect that this is fairly
typical for gauges using SW resistive sensors.)
So my idea of an ideal circuit is this:
*An *adjustable* setpoint for pump turn-on, when voltage *rises* to say,
0.6V, and pump turn-off when voltage *falls* to say, 0.2V (to avoid
overfilling the tank). I'd consider the adjustable feature to be essential,
due to variations in float arms, tanks, supply voltage to the sensor/gauge
(might be 14V in some cases), etc. *A 'nice to have' additional feature for
others would allow inverting the voltage measurements, since some
installations might expect the resistive sensor to be at 240 ohms when full
.
Any thoughts on a simple circuit to do this? Every off-the-shelf controller
I've found uses switches, triggers, etc, instead of voltage comparators.
The two most common ICs are the LM324 (using one section as an oscillator
to generate a low voltage AC to excite the probes), and a 555 timer IC
(much simpler circuit, but no provision for voltage sensing for trigger).
Thanks for any thoughts,
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
OOPS; forgot an important point:
Since the device will operate in parallel with an existing gauge (or input
to an EFIS), the voltage sensing circuit obviously needs to present a
relatively high impedance to avoid affecting the existing measurements.
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On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:25 PM Charlie England
wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> In my homebuilt project, I have aux tank(s) that must be pumped to the
> main tank for engine supply, on an engine that uses automotive style high
> pressure injection with a regulator return line to the main tank. (Person
al
> preference vs the complexity of a 4-selection duplex valve)
>
> Thought I'd tap the brain trust for how best to execute an idea for an
> automated fuel transfer controller. Liquid level controllers are readily
> available now, but most I've found are almost 'too clever' for what I wan
t,
> using simple bare wire for probes in a water tank. What I'd like is a
> controller that could look to the variable voltage seen by our typical fu
el
> gauges/EFISs from 'standard' Stewart Warner type resistive sensors for
> level sensing, instead of separate probes, optical sensors, etc.
>
> For my AFS engine monitor circuit, the tank sensor, according to AFS:
> 'It will be pulled up to ~4v. So with the 40-240=84 you will see 0.
1 to 1.0V
> .'
>
> Since the sensor goes to 40 ohms at full and is referenced to ground, Tha
t
> means 1.0 V at empty, and 0.1 V at full. ( I suspect that this is fairly
> typical for gauges using SW resistive sensors.)
>
> So my idea of an ideal circuit is this:
>
> *An *adjustable* setpoint for pump turn-on, when voltage *rises* to say,
> 0.6V, and pump turn-off when voltage *falls* to say, 0.2V (to avoid
> overfilling the tank). I'd consider the adjustable feature to be essentia
l,
> due to variations in float arms, tanks, supply voltage to the sensor/gaug
e
> (might be 14V in some cases), etc. *A 'nice to have' additional feature
> for others would allow inverting the voltage measurements, since some
> installations might expect the resistive sensor to be at 240 ohms when fu
ll.
>
> Any thoughts on a simple circuit to do this? Every off-the-shelf
> controller I've found uses switches, triggers, etc, instead of voltage
> comparators. The two most common ICs are the LM324 (using one section as
an
> oscillator to generate a low voltage AC to excite the probes), and a 555
> timer IC (much simpler circuit, but no provision for voltage sensing for
> trigger).
>
> Thanks for any thoughts,
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
>
> <#m_6213572167281846612_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Charlie, a search on the internet found this thread:
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/voltage-controlled-switch.63998/
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491364#491364
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
If the copper tape isn't soldered or otherwise electrically bonded to the
rest of the metal ground plane (panel), then it's not doing anything
productive. You could get what you were hoping for by using strips of
aluminum; even something really thin like strips cut from aluminum flashing
material. They could be riveted on one end to the aluminum doubler shown in
the pics, and glued with clear 'sensor safe' rtv to the plexi, and screwed
at the other end using the plexi mounting screws.
Having said that, the antenna still won't be centered in the ground plane.
You could add strips going the other direction using similar techniques.
The 'ideal' ground plane extends out from the base as far as the antenna
height. As few as 4 equally spaced radial arms can get the job done pretty
effectively.
Having said *that*, are you sure your problems are purely transmission
range? Tube/rag a/c are notoriously noisy in the cockpit. You may have as
much a problem with *audio* signal to noise ratio as with transmission
distance. Ability to accurately describe comm deficiencies is pretty rare,
even for controllers. If you think that could be a possibility, we can
expand on that.
Charlie
(sound tech in one of my previous lives)
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:45 PM Argonaut36 wrote:
>
> Thanks to both for the additional comments.
> I reply to the questions of Bob as follows:
> =A2 I do not have the old coax any more
> =A2 I have never used a hand-held radio in this airplane
> =A2 The radio performance is ok for Class D operations, but n
ot so
> good for Class B and Class C, when you need to communicate from further o
ut
> and clarity of communications is even more important
> =A2 As far as additional input, I can tell you that the radio
harness
> was replaced without appreciable changes
> I am posting a file that includes 2 pictures of my panel/antenna. The
> copper strips are just taped (not soldered) and there is no communing
> disk. The strips do not extend laterally, because of the limited width o
f
> the panel. I assumed that, as we normally fly towards the radio station
we
> are talking to, that would be kind of acceptable.
> Could you please make comments on my copper foil strips and elaborate a
> little further on how the set up described by Bob is in his book could be
> implemented on my panel (keeping the panel removable from the airplane)?
> Note: in my previous post with the dimensions of the ground plane I have
> just disregarded the copper foil strips and I have assumed that the secti
on
> of panel behind the plexigas window and the double plate work together as
a
> ground plane.
> Thanks
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491345#491345
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pictures_196.pdf
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
Charlie,
Believe your approach is too "clever". For example, your specifications ha
ve no way to turn off the pump when the aux tanks are empty and the mains a
re low. Nor is there any way to turn on the pump when the fuel sensor fail
s.
Suggest a simple push button activated timer circuit that stays on for abou
t 20% of the aux tank capacity is a simpler, more reliable approach. See t
he May issue of Kitplanes for a detailed description of such a circuit and
how to use it.
Or a simpler version of the same circuit can be found at the Glassair Owner
s Association website under the tag "fuel".
If you don't have access to these on-line drop me a note and I can email yo
u the source files.
I also have a manuscript for a gadget that correctly detects net fuel flow
in a return line installation. Cost: about $2.00 in parts plus the flow tr
ansducers.
Tom Kuffel
kuffel(at)cyberport.net
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Kuffels" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
<< See the May issue of Kitplanes for a detailed description of such a cir
cuit and how to use it. >>
Should be: See the May 2009 issue of Kitplanes
Tom
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
Are the AUX tanks higher than the main?=C2- At the wing tips vs. root, f
or instance?
If so, get rid of the electronics completely.=C2- Put a float controlled
valve on port on the main tank, and have it fed from a low point on the AUX
tank.
ngland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
In my homebuilt project, I have aux tank(s) that must be pumped to the main
tank for engine supply, on an engine that uses automotive style high press
ure injection with a regulator return line to the main tank. (Personal pref
erence vs the complexity of a 4-selection duplex valve)
Thought I'd tap the brain trust for how best to execute an idea for an auto
mated fuel transfer controller. Liquid level controllers are readily availa
ble now, but most I've found are almost 'too clever' for what I want, using
simple bare wire for probes in a water tank. What I'd like is a controller
that could look to the variable voltage seen by our typical fuel gauges/EF
ISs from 'standard' Stewart Warner type resistive=C2-sensors for level se
nsing, instead of separate probes, optical sensors, etc.=C2-
For my AFS engine monitor circuit, the tank sensor, according to AFS:'It wi
ll be pulled up to ~4v. So with the 40-240=84 you will see 0.1 to 1.0
V=C2-.'
=C2- =C2-
Since the sensor goes to 40 ohms at full and is referenced to ground, That
means 1.0 V at empty, and 0.1 V at full. ( I suspect that this is fairly ty
pical for gauges using SW resistive sensors.)=C2-
So my idea of an ideal circuit is this:=C2-
An *adjustable* setpoint for pump turn-on, when voltage *rises* to say, 0.6
V, and pump turn-off when voltage *falls* to say, 0.2V (to avoid overfillin
g the tank). I'd consider the adjustable feature to be essential, due to va
riations in float arms, tanks, supply voltage to the sensor/gauge (might be
14V in some cases), etc. A 'nice to have' additional feature for others=C2
- would allow inverting the voltage measurements, since some installation
s might expect the resistive sensor to be at 240 ohms when full.
Any thoughts on a simple circuit to do this? Every off-the-shelf controller
I've found uses switches, triggers, etc, instead of voltage comparators. T
he two most common ICs are the LM324 (using one section as an oscillator to
generate a low voltage AC to excite the probes), and a 555 timer IC (much
simpler circuit, but no provision for voltage sensing for trigger).
Thanks for any thoughts,
Charlie
| | Virus-free. www.avast.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 9/18/2019 10:52 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Charlie, a search on the internet found this thread:
> https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/voltage-controlled-switch.63998/
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
Thanks for the link, and the reminder. I've been away from active
electronics work for so long, I'd completely forgotten about comparator
circuits. I'll do some more research on that path; I'd like to have
independently adjustable trigger points via trim pots, and a variation
on that circuit might allow it. The site looks like it could be useful
for a variety of other projects, as well.
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 9/18/2019 12:00 PM, The Kuffels wrote:
>
> Charlie,
> Believe your approach is too "clever". For example, your
> specifications have no way to turn off the pump when the aux tanks are
> empty and the mains are low. Nor is there anyway to turn on the pump
> when the fuel sensor fails.
> Suggest a simple push button activated timer circuit that stays on for
> about 20% of the aux tank capacity is a simpler, more reliable
> approach. See the May issue of Kitplanes for a detailed description
> of such a circuit and how to use it.
> Or a simpler version of the same circuit can be found at the Glassair
> Owners Association website under the tag "fuel".
> If you don't have access to these on-line drop me a note and I
> canemail you the source files.
> I also have a manuscript for a gadget that correctlydetects netfuel
> flow in a return line installation. Cost: about $2.00 in parts plus
> the flow transducers.
> Tom Kuffel
> kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Hi Tom,
I appreciate the warning, since any of us can get lost in the weeds (get
too clever). In this case, though, I already have a 'no fuel present'
optical sensor in the supply line to the transfer pump(s). I was afraid
my initial narrative would get so long that I didn't try to describe
every detail; only the specific function that I'm having trouble
finalizing. I also intend manual switch control to both stop and start
transfers if problems develop.
Thanks for the link to the Glassair site for the timer circuit; a simple
timer has always been 'plan B'. I do have a subscription to Kitplanes
(all homebuilders should, in my opinion), so I'm good there. I'd love
to see your return flow compensation circuit, though it's not an issue
for this particular installation (flow sensor is downstream of the
regulator bypass). I'd be *really* excited if you could do it for $2
without the need of an extra $150 flow sensor. :-)
If you don't mind sending it, my email address is
ceengland7(at)gmail.com.
Thanks,
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Not high enough to matter; it's an RV-7 with 'wet wing' leading edge
tanks outboard of the mains. About 3 lbs weight gain total for the tanks
themselves & fuel lines, plus the weight of redundant Facet transfer
pumps in the fuselage.
The -7 is acro-qualified, but not with fuel weight in the outboard
sections of the wings. I've probably seen all the various tank building
and transfer methods, and none of the passive transfer methods I've seen
so far give me any confidence in being able to positively empty the aux
tanks and know that no fuel will get back out there even when the main
is full. The passive methods of transfer that I've seen also depend on
the cap on the main tank being totally fuel tight (not a universal
certainty with Van's caps) because the higher aux fuel will try to exit
the main's cap when both are full. In addition, some of the schemes
depend on re-arranging the vent system so that the main's vent ties to
the aux outlet, and the aux supplies the vent for the whole system. I
can't get comfortable with messing around with the vent system, either,
regardless of acro issues.
The alternative engine is a radical enough change, so I tried to keep
the actual fuel delivery path as close to 'stock' as possible, with the
only mod to the fuel delivery main tank being its return line.
Charlie
On 9/18/2019 2:07 PM, Ernest Christley wrote:
> Are the AUX tanks higher than the main? At the wing tips vs. root,
> for instance?
>
> If so, get rid of the electronics completely. Put a float controlled
> valve on port on the main tank, and have it fed from a low point on
> the AUX tank.
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> In my homebuilt project, I have aux tank(s) that must be pumped to the
> main tank for engine supply, on an engine that uses automotive style
> high pressure injection with a regulator return line to the main tank.
> (Personal preference vs the complexity of a 4-selection duplex valve)
>
> Thought I'd tap the brain trust for how best to execute an idea for an
> automated fuel transfer controller. Liquid level controllers are
> readily available now, but most I've found are almost 'too clever' for
> what I want, using simple bare wire for probes in a water tank. What
> I'd like is a controller that could look to the variable voltage seen
> by our typical fuel gauges/EFISs from 'standard' Stewart Warner type
> resistivesensors for level sensing, instead of separate probes,
> optical sensors, etc.
>
> For my AFS engine monitor circuit, the tank sensor, according to AFS:
> 'It will be pulled up to ~4v. So with the 40-240 you will see 0.1 to
> 1.0V.'
>
> Since the sensor goes to 40 ohms at full and is referenced to ground,
> That means 1.0 V at empty, and 0.1 V at full. ( I suspect that this is
> fairly typical for gauges using SW resistive sensors.)
>
> So my idea of an ideal circuit is this:
>
> *An *adjustable* setpoint for pump turn-on, when voltage *rises* to
> say, 0.6V, and pump turn-off when voltage *falls* to say, 0.2V (to
> avoid overfilling the tank). I'd consider the adjustable feature to be
> essential, due to variations in float arms, tanks, supply voltage to
> the sensor/gauge (might be 14V in some cases), etc. *A 'nice to have'
> additional feature for others would allow inverting the voltage
> measurements, since some installations might expect the resistive
> sensor to be at 240 ohms when full.
>
> Any thoughts on a simple circuit to do this? Every off-the-shelf
> controller I've found uses switches, triggers, etc, instead of voltage
> comparators. The two most common ICs are the LM324 (using one section
> as an oscillator to generate a low voltage AC to excite the probes),
> and a 555 timer IC (much simpler circuit, but no provision for voltage
> sensing for trigger).
>
> Thanks for any thoughts,
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 10:57 PM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>If the copper tape isn't soldered or otherwise
>electrically bonded to the rest of the metal
>ground plane (panel), then it's not doing
>anything productive. You could get what you were
>hoping for by using strips of aluminum; even
>something really thin like strips cut from
>aluminum flashing material. They could be
>riveted on one end to the aluminum doubler shown
>in the pics, and glued with clear 'sensor safe'
>rtv to the plexi, and screwed at the other=C2 end
>using the plexi mounting screws.=C2
>
>Having said that, the antenna still won't be
>centered in the ground plane. You could add
>strips going the other direction using similar
>techniques. The 'ideal' ground plane extends out
>from the base as far as the antenna height. As
>few as 4 equally spaced radial arms can get the job done pretty
effectively.=C2
Actually, there's a relatively simple experiment
that can be conducted. 4 radials ~1" wide, extending
from the antenna base and simply taped to the outside
surface of the a/c will emulate an excellent ground
plane. It does not need to be electrically bonded to
the airframe. Where it is in close proximity to the
airframe, there will be significant electro-static
coupling to the airframe. I'd make them 24" long or
so. Length not critical when so closely coupled to
the a/c skin. Here's a tape suited to the task of
temporary attachment to the airplane.
https://tinyurl.com/y3wrc7kx
I've used this stuff to run ribbon cable through
the baggage door seal, down the side of the fuselage
and past the entry door seal to bring investigatory
signals from the hell-hole of a Beechjet into the
cabin.
This tape would work fine for the experimental ground
plane installation as well.
>
>
>Having said *that*, are you sure your problems
>are purely transmission range? Tube/rag a/c are
>notoriously noisy in the cockpit. You may have
>as much a problem with *audio* signal to noise
>ratio as with transmission distance. Ability to
>accurately describe comm deficiencies is pretty
>rare, even for controllers. If you think that
>could be a possibility, we can expand on that.=C2
Excellent point! There was a list-thread on
this very topic way back when . Turns out
that transmission intelligibility was
completely dependent on the noise cancelling
quality of microphone . . . I'm embarrassed
for not to have recalled this.
Before hammering on the antenna installation,
do try another mic/headset combination. They
are not all the same . . . particularly
with respect to cancelling low frequency
'buffeting' kinds of noise common to airplanes
where creature comfort is rather far down on the
list of design priorities.
Is it just your transmitted signal that's
deficient . . . or both transmit and receive?
This brings up the point that few users
of two-way radios have the experience and vocabulary
to describe poor signal quality. For example,
you can have a strong radio frequency signal
that is dead quiet when not talking but the
audio is weak/distorted. This is ALWAYS an
audio/microphone problem. You can have
a marginal radio frequency signal (just
beginning to present 'popcorn' noises
when not talking and uncharacteristically
poor audio when adding voice modulation.
Then there's the truly weak-signal which
can be a combination of radio/coax/antenna
issued. Years ago, I asked a reader to
send me a recording of his received signal
as heard on the ground . . . his problem
turned out to be in the audio system causing
a badly under-modulated transmitter.
Charlie's memory jog suggests an
important avenue of investigation
that supercedes fiddling with the antenna.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 10:25 AM 9/18/2019, you wrote:
>
>That copper tape does not do much good because it all goes in one
>direction. And it is questionable if it is making good contact with
>the antenna mounting plate.
>Here is a suggestion: Cut 4 pieces of coax each 22 or 23 inches
>long. Attach a ring terminal to the shield of each coax (not the
>center conductor). Connect one length of coax to each of the 4
>antenna mounting screws using the ring terminals. When the panel is
>mounted to the aircraft, arrange the coax ground plane so that it
>extends outward in 4 different directions. Elastic cord attached to
>the coax ends could help to position it.
>This experiment is worth a try and will not cost much except your time.
That would work too . . . the same tape could
be used to hold it against the skin.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Thanks to All for the interesting comments and suggestions.
In this post I would like to address the comments of Charlie on noise in the cockpit.
I need a little more time to write a second post on the antenna solutions
that have been proposed for testing (coax and external copper foil). I may
have a couple of questions.
Yes, the problem is not just range. It is also noise. ATC says that my transmissions
are weak and with a lot of static noise, but still acceptable. As I
wrote in an earlier post, that is not the case if I go to Class B or C airspace
and I need to call from far out.
My impression is that I receive better than I transmit. The noise level in the
cockpit is very high and when I press the push-to-talk button, the static noise
that I hear in the sidetone is louder than my voice.
I use what is considered a very good noise canceling microphone that I periodically
replace. My understanding is that the noise wears out the microphone. I
have also flown with a Bose headset; transmissions were better, but only marginally.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491384#491384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 10:57 PM 9/17/2019, you wrote:
>If the copper tape isn't soldered or otherwise
>electrically bonded to the rest of the metal
>ground plane (panel), then it's not doing
>anything productive. You could get what you were
>hoping for by using strips of aluminum; even
>something really thin like strips cut from
>aluminum flashing material. They could be
>riveted on one end to the aluminum doubler shown
>in the pics, and glued with clear 'sensor safe'
>rtv to the plexi, and screwed at the other=C2 end
>using the plexi mounting screws.=C2
>
>Having said that, the antenna still won't be
>centered in the ground plane. You could add
>strips going the other direction using similar
>techniques. The 'ideal' ground plane extends out
>from the base as far as the antenna height. As
>few as 4 equally spaced radial arms can get the job done pretty
effectively.=C2
Actually, there's a relatively simple experiment
that can be conducted. 4 radials ~1" wide, extending
from the antenna base and simply taped to the outside
surface of the a/c will emulate an excellent ground
plane. It does not need to be electrically bonded to
the airframe. Where it is in close proximity to the
airframe, there will be significant electro-static
coupling to the airframe. I'd make them 24" long or
so. Length not critical when so closely coupled to
the a/c skin. Here's a tape suited to the task of
temporary attachment to the airplane.
https://tinyurl.com/y3wrc7kx
I've used this stuff to run ribbon cable through
the baggage door seal, down the side of the fuselage
and past the entry door seal to bring investigatory
signals from the hell-hole of a Beechjet into the
cabin.
This tape would work fine for the experimental ground
plane installation as well.
>
>
>Having said *that*, are you sure your problems
>are purely transmission range? Tube/rag a/c are
>notoriously noisy in the cockpit. You may have
>as much a problem with *audio* signal to noise
>ratio as with transmission distance. Ability to
>accurately describe comm deficiencies is pretty
>rare, even for controllers. If you think that
>could be a possibility, we can expand on that.=C2
Excellent point! There was a list-thread on
this very topic way back when . Turns out
that transmission intelligibility was
completely dependent on the noise cancelling
quality of microphone . . . I'm embarrassed
for not to have recalled this.
Before hammering on the antenna installation,
do try another mic/headset combination. They
are not all the same . . . particularly
with respect to cancelling low frequency
'buffeting' kinds of noise common to airplanes
where creature comfort is rather far down on the
list of design priorities.
Is it just your transmitted signal that's
deficient . . . or both transmit and receive?
This brings up the point that few users
of two-way radios have the experience and vocabulary
to describe poor signal quality. For example,
you can have a strong radio frequency signal
that is dead quiet when not talking but the
audio is weak/distorted. This is ALWAYS an
audio/microphone problem. You can have
a marginal radio frequency signal (just
beginning to present 'popcorn' noises
when not talking and uncharacteristically
poor audio when adding voice modulation.
Then there's the truly weak-signal which
can be a combination of radio/coax/antenna
issued. Years ago, I asked a reader to
send me a recording of his received signal
as heard on the ground . . . his problem
turned out to be in the audio system causing
a badly under-modulated transmitter.
Charlie's memory jog suggests an
important avenue of investigation
that supercedes fiddling with the antenna.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 10:25 AM 9/18/2019, you wrote:
>
>That copper tape does not do much good because it all goes in one
>direction. And it is questionable if it is making good contact with
>the antenna mounting plate.
>Here is a suggestion: Cut 4 pieces of coax each 22 or 23 inches
>long. Attach a ring terminal to the shield of each coax (not the
>center conductor). Connect one length of coax to each of the 4
>antenna mounting screws using the ring terminals. When the panel is
>mounted to the aircraft, arrange the coax ground plane so that it
>extends outward in 4 different directions. Elastic cord attached to
>the coax ends could help to position it.
>This experiment is worth a try and will not cost much except your time.
That would work too . . . the same tape could
be used to hold it against the skin.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I changed the length of the ground plane radials to 24 inches in my post above
to be the same as Bob's suggestion.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491391#491391
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | "wsimpso1" <wsimpso1(at)comcast.net> |
We went around a closely related topic on homebuiltairplanes.com a while back.
I have a similar system, and I am electing to simply run one of two Facet pumps
all the time to keep the header (main) tank full. The header (main) tank is
only vented back to the source tank through a duplex valve, so yes, it is circulating
fuel. I view having any additional switches, logic, timers, fuel level
sensors, etc in the loop as being less reliable than running one pump with another
in reserve. Having 150 miles worth of fuel in the header feels pretty good
too.
Thread is https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/threads/transfer-pumps-and-fuel-system-configuration.30820/
There are others on there that I started about details of fuel systems, but they
seem off topic for this thread.
Good luck
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491392#491392
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
At 08:37 AM 9/19/2019, you wrote:
>
>I changed the length of the ground plane radials to 24 inches in my
>post above to be the same as Bob's suggestion.
The length won't be 'critical' in this case.
When crafting a free space ground plane for
a vertical antenna, the idea is to approximate
the 'perfect' ground plane . . . a solid conductor
radiating from the base of the antenna for a
long ways. Since an perfect (infinite)
plane isn't practical, the common approximations
take on the form of radial 'whiskers'
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.frzhTHSL4nWMxO4KqsPwpAHaDU&w
In this case, they are just more antennas
brought together at the base such that their
impedances are paralleled. The more radials,
the lower the ground impedance, the better
the plane. These are resonant ground planes.
I.e. 1/4 wave in free space elements.
This technique is closely approximated
in composite airplanes with copper or
aluminum strips bonded to the inside
skin of the aircraft.
The DIY transponder antenna for composite
applications suggeseted a solid disk
ground plane with a radius equal to height
of the antenna.
Emacs!
This 'plane' looks like an infinite number
of radials joined at the center. But
unless the plane is in pretty much free
space with respect to surrounding conductors,
it's near-ideal characteristics are
degraded.
For the purposed of our 'experiment',
the proposed 1/4 wave elements will be in
closest practical proximity to a metal
airframe; no longer in free air and
certainly not resonant at the frequency
of interest.
So the exact length is no longer significant.
Instead we're looking for some electro-static
or capacitive coupling to the airframe to
combine with planar effects of the now-random
lengths of conductor. In this case, the
wider strips taped to the skin are more
desirable to increase the capacitive coupling
effects . . . but the suggested wire elements
may well produce the desired effect of compensating
for a suspected inadequate ground plane.
While the microphone performance issue is
worth examination, one of the 'grains of
sand' in this study says that performance
is degraded with DISTANCE from the other
station which discounts audio problems
(consistent irrespective of range) and
re-enforces the notion that there is a
signal strength issue.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 9/18/2019 10:06 PM, Argonaut36 wrote:
>
> Thanks to All for the interesting comments and suggestions.
> In this post I would like to address the comments of Charlie on noise in the
cockpit. I need a little more time to write a second post on the antenna solutions
that have been proposed for testing (coax and external copper foil). I
may have a couple of questions.
> Yes, the problem is not just range. It is also noise. ATC says that my transmissions
are weak and with a lot of static noise, but still acceptable. As
I wrote in an earlier post, that is not the case if I go to Class B or C airspace
and I need to call from far out.
> My impression is that I receive better than I transmit. The noise level in the
cockpit is very high and when I press the push-to-talk button, the static noise
that I hear in the sidetone is louder than my voice.
> I use what is considered a very good noise canceling microphone that I periodically
replace. My understanding is that the noise wears out the microphone.
I have also flown with a Bose headset; transmissions were better, but only marginally.
First, your experience with small-airport vs B/C airspace might not be
purely range. Have you tried small airport comm from the same distance,
and over similar (as in flat) terrain as the B/C comm? And do the B/C
comms have the same problems, once you get as close to them as you
typically are to the small airports? This might help determine whether
you truly have a range issue. But regardless, don't forget 'human
factors'. The small airport guys are typically not very busy, and can be
more 'focused' on listening. They're possibly used to dealing with
poorer quality than the big guys, since small airport fliers are often
not as dependent on perfectly performing equipment. The big guys, on the
other hand, are often incredibly busy, and if they have the slightest
problem with readability, may just tell you you're unreadable and to go
away. They're also unlikely to have the audio skillset to give a useful
technical description of what they're actually hearing.
OK, on to some random *generalizations*:
'Normal' noise levels in the mic's designed-for environment should not
wear out a mic. I've got headsets that are older than my >25 year flying
experience, almost all in homebuilts, that still have good mics in them.
Not saying that extreme noise can't damage a mic, but wearing it out
shouldn't be much of an issue.
Range can obviously affect transmission quality, especially with AM
(what we use for a/c comm). But background noise can often make more
difference than carrier strength (range). Others are much more qualified
to discuss the RF side of things, but I may be able to offer some long
distance help with the audio side of things.
Intelligibility is closely tied to 'signal-to-noise ratio'. We usually
hear (pardon the on-the-nose pun) the term used in electronics, where
the signal (audio) is measured as a ratio to the level of 'noise', which
is all the background hiss, crackling, etc that exists in all
electronics. But for practical, real-world applications, the entire
system must be considered. Ex: in a concert hall, the signal is the
singer's voice and the noise is everything else; audience conversations,
squeaking chairs, foot falls, even reverberations of the singer's own
voice bouncing around in the room. An extreme (though somewhat twisted)
example would be 'feedback' when the PA system's output gets back into
the mic and is re-amplified.
Now, how do we improve S/N in the concert hall? Turning up the volume
will make the singer easier to hear, and help mask hall noise, but
eventually the PA will get loud enough to cause feedback and then no one
will hear the 'signal'. So what to do? One thing is to lower the noise
level. Padded seats, carpet, noise absorbing panels on the ceiling &
walls, and even more important, telling your neighbor to save their
conversation till the concert is over. But one of the big drivers of
poor S/N is the singer him/her-self. If the handheld mic is allowed to
point out into the audience, feedback is more likely. If the singer cups
their hands around the mesh area of the mic, it kills the mic's
directional selectivity. If they sing into the side of the mic instead
of the end (assuming a typical handheld mic), or they hold the mic too
far from their lips, or sing too softly, then *their vocal volume is a
smaller percentage of the total sound the mic hears*. If the singer
messes up in the above ways, the sound guy's only way to make them
louder is to turn up the gain, but the mic hears everything, so noise
gets amplified along with signal.
The 'singer' issues are very similar to issues in the cockpit. Headset
mics are directional mics. Not a terribly common problem, but with some
headsets (particularly the in-ear models), it's easy to get the back
side of the mic facing your lips. This will give preference to noise
over voice. If the mic isn't so close to the pilot's lips it's almost
touching them (left or right edge of your mouth tends work best, to
minimize popping from breath), then like the singer, the 'hall noise'
will be a bigger percentage of what the mic hears. If the pilot speaks
softly, then 'hall noise' will be a bigger percentage of what the mic
hears. If the 'front' of the mic isn't pointed directly at the pilot's
lips... Are we getting the idea yet? If there's another mic in the a/c
that's plugged into the system, it will often go 'live' whenever the PTT
is pushed along with the pilot's mic. If that happens....
ETC ETC
Now, what to do that's 'fixing' stuff, instead of just 'technique'?
Reducing the ambient noise level in a tube/rag a/c is very difficult
unless we're willing to accept a lot of extra weight. But there are some
'tweaks' to the system that will likely help. One thing will sound
counter-intuitive, but does work (I just went through it with my
neighbor, who's flying the prototype One Design unlimited acro a/c).
First, check with the mfgr of your headset, to see if there is a gain
adjustment *on the microphone* of the headset. Many electret condenser
mics have a tiny gain adjustment screw in the body of the mic. If yours
has one, turn the gain *down* as low as you can get it and still have
your voice transmitted. The reason: Those mics actually have a tiny
preamplifier built into them. If the total volume (voice plus noise) is
loud enough, it can drive the preamp into distortion. When that happens,
we get fuzzy, garbled sound as the peak volume is clipped off.
Next, find the mic gain or mic volume adjustment on your comm radio, and
turn *it* down as low as you can go, and still get your voice out there.
Even if you have to speak 'with authority' into the mic. Remember the
'too soft' singer? If you speak louder, your voice is a larger
percentage of what the mic hears. Now obviously, you need enough audio
to properly modulate the RF carrier, but you'll likely be surprised at
how much you can turn these setting down and still hear yourself. As
long as you sound ok in your sidetone, you're likely going to be ok with
modulation. (RF guys feel free to step in here.)
The last thing returns to technique, in the form of 'compensation' for
a/c deficiencies. When comm is critical, pull the power back. This was
the last step in getting the One Design mentioned above into the 'clear
communications' category. By reducing the throttle setting, the cockpit
noise goes down significantly, improving signal to noise ratio. (Could
this be a factor in small vs large airport operations, where you're
likely at reduced power close to the small airport but still at cruise
power when far from the large airports?)
Sorry for such a long 'epistle', but hopefully there will be some useful
info buried in there.
Charlie
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 9/19/2019 10:01 AM, wsimpso1 wrote:
>
> We went around a closely related topic on homebuiltairplanes.com a while back.
I have a similar system, and I am electing to simply run one of two Facet pumps
all the time to keep the header (main) tank full. The header (main) tank is
only vented back to the source tank through a duplex valve, so yes, it is circulating
fuel. I view having any additional switches, logic, timers, fuel level
sensors, etc in the loop as being less reliable than running one pump with
another in reserve. Having 150 miles worth of fuel in the header feels pretty
good too.
>
> Thread is https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/threads/transfer-pumps-and-fuel-system-configuration.30820/
>
> There are others on there that I started about details of fuel systems, but they
seem off topic for this thread.
>
> Good luck
>
> Bill
Hi Bill,
I think that technique has a lot of merit in a lot of situations, but as
I mentioned in another post, my plane is acro-capable, and I need to
preserve the ability to *know* that the auxs are empty for acro. Another
factor is that in this plane, two of the three auxs will almost never
have fuel in them (only for extended out/back legs with no refueling).
I'm trying to keep the fuel-delivery tank as close to 'as designed' as I
possibly can, and still be able to use auto style fuel injection and get
aux fuel to it.
Thanks,
Charlie
---
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Reference is made to the following comment of Bob in a recent post:
Quote
Years ago, I asked a reader to send me a recording of his received signal as heard
on the ground . . . his problem turned out to be in the audio system causing
a badly under-modulated transmitter.
Unquote
When the radio was almost new, it failed and I flew for a while with a loaned radio
(identical) and then I got the replacement radio (also identical) that I
have now. The three radios worked exactly the same and for this reason I did
not consider the radio itself being the source of the troubles. At the time I
flew with the other radios, however, I had different antenna, coax and harness
that could have masked issues with the radio.
Going back to the alternative antenna configurations that have been proposed, could
Bob please answer the following questions:
What is the recommended 1 copper foil tape and where I can buy it?
How is the tape terminated at the antenna? Does it stop at a certain distance from
the antenna or right at the antenna?
Does the recommended 2" white vinyl tape leave adhesive residue on the paint? Considering
that testing will probably require only a single short flight, could
perhaps a less strong tape that does not leave residue be used?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491405#491405
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Daily Summary Missing? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, my account must have fallen into limbo. When I try to unsubscribe, the email
distribution tool says it is sending a link to my email address to confirm.
That email never arrives, and the unsubscribe is not successful. I have checked
in the spam folder as well, and tried with different browsers with the
same (non)results. Curious. John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491409#491409
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/where-to-buy-copper-foil-tape.437391/
-
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Corry-s-15-ft-Slug-and-Snail-Copper-Tape-100099017/100662157
-
https://www.amazon.com/Freely-Copper-Foil-Conductive-Adhesive/dp/B06XQ9T2WN/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_229_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZR2J0MDFBA4CF5HH5S0Z
-
The antenna could be removed, the copper tape stuck on, then re-install the antenna.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491410#491410
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Charlie,
I am carefully reviewing all the information that you provided and I am planning
on following your suggestions.
Thank you very much for your help!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491414#491414
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding radio antenna and transponder antenna |
| From: | "Argonaut36" <fmlibrino(at)msn.com> |
Thanks for the links for the copper foil tape and the installation suggestions.
I am not too sure about how easy would be to remove my existing antenna. I
remember that an adhesive that would provide a very strong bond between the antenna
and the panel was used during installation.
The other antenna option that uses the coax cable that was discussed in this thread
seems easier and I plan on testing it the next time I have the panel out
of the airplane.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491423#491423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
While breaking out a fresh package of tie-wraps
it occurred to me that Listers might find this
"tiewrap management tip" useful.
Emacs!
I leave them in the as-supplied, heat-sealed bag
and wrap the buckle-end of the bundle with two, #65
(Post Office) rubber bands. If tie-wraps had
eyes, they'd be bugging out.
Then cut off the extreme end of the plastic
bag just inside the seal line.
Now you can pull one tie-wrap at a time
while its brothers remain ensconced
in their protective cocoon relatively free
of dirt. This has been especially useful for
bundles of tie-wraps that reside in my truck-box.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How to develop knowledge |
| From: | "Priyarajesh" <priyarajesh736(at)gmail.com> |
IOT Training in Chennai
R programming Training in Chennai
Internship in Pune for Computer Engineering Students
Internship for EEE Students
Internship for Automobile Engineering Students
Internship for Civil Students
Internship for Structural Engineering Students
Internship for Production Engineering Students
Internship for MCA Students
PHP Training in Chennai
Internship for Aeronautical Engineering Students
Internship for BCA Students
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491474#491474
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
Nice one!
Best...
Bob Verwey
082 331 2727
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 18:17, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> While breaking out a fresh package of tie-wraps
> it occurred to me that Listers might find this
> "tiewrap management tip" useful.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> I leave them in the as-supplied, heat-sealed bag
> and wrap the buckle-end of the bundle with two, #65
> (Post Office) rubber bands. If tie-wraps had
> eyes, they'd be bugging out.
>
> Then cut off the extreme end of the plastic
> bag just inside the seal line.
>
> Now you can pull one tie-wrap at a time
> while its brothers remain ensconced
> in their protective cocoon relatively free
> of dirt. This has been especially useful for
> bundles of tie-wraps that reside in my truck-box.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Use old VOR antenna for handheld radio? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
I have a Yaesu handheld radio that has both VHF comm and nav capability. The plane
has what i believe is a VOR antenna with the cable coming to the cockpit,
but the VOR receiver is no longer installed. Can that antenna be used instead
of the rubber ducky antenna on the handheld? And if so, what kind of extension
cable should I get since the plane's cable stops under/behind the panel which
isn't conducive to using the handheld unit? John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491481#491481
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Stearns <steve(at)tomasara.com> |
Bob said:
*I leave them in the as-supplied, heat-sealed bagand wrap the buckle-end of
the bundle with two, #65(Post Office) rubber bands. If tie-wraps hadeyes,
they'd be bugging out.Then cut off the extreme end of the plasticbag just
inside the seal line.*
I've now forgotten where I read a ridiculously easy tip that has worked for
me for years. When you get your bag of tie-wraps slit it in the *middle
and across* the direction the tie-wraps lay in the bag. They won't fall out
and it's easy to reach in and pull one (it has to bend, of course) out the
slit.
Steve Stearns
'46 Taylorcraft N43732
Longeze N45FC ~1500 Hrs
Boulder/Longmont CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Encapsulating connectors (Quest. for Bob) |
| From: | "Demixl" <jb100059(at)yahoo.com> |
hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium safe RTV for
my aquarium and when I filled the water in the aquarium, there appeared some worms
at the bottom of aquarium so I would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium
safe RTV (is this a catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
Just curious if these worms aren't gangerous
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491483#491483
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use old VOR antenna for handheld radio? |
At 06:51 PM 9/26/2019, you wrote:
>
>I have a Yaesu handheld radio that has both VHF comm and nav
>capability. The plane has what i believe is a VOR antenna with the
>cable coming to the cockpit, but the VOR receiver is no longer
>installed. Can that antenna be used instead of the rubber ducky
>antenna on the handheld? And if so, what kind of extension cable
>should I get since the plane's cable stops under/behind the panel
>which isn't conducive to using the handheld unit? John
The VOR antenna will work much
better than the 'rubber-duck'
on the hand held in spite of the
fact that it's not optimized for
communications.
You'll need to fabricate an
extension coax that brings the
end out to a convenient length
for hooking it to the hand-held.
Do you plan to use a headset/mic
with the h-h or are you intending
to use its native speaker/mic?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Encapsulating connectors SPAM |
This poster is not a member of the List
At 09:15 AM 9/27/2019, you wrote:
>
>hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium
>safe RTV for my aquarium and when I filled the water in the
>aquarium, there appeared some worms at the bottom of aquarium so I
>would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium safe RTV (is this a
>catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
>Just curious if these worms aren't gangerous
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Encapsulating connectors SPAM |
This poster is not a member of the List
At 09:15 AM 9/27/2019, you wrote:
>
>hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium
>safe RTV for my aquarium and when I filled the water in the
>aquarium, there appeared some worms at the bottom of aquarium so I
>would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium safe RTV (is this a
>catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
>Just curious if these worms aren't gangerous
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skywagon185guy ." <skywagon185(at)gmail.com> |
. . .NEAT . . .!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 9:18 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
> While breaking out a fresh package of tie-wraps
> it occurred to me that Listers might find this
> "tiewrap management tip" useful.
>
> [image: Emacs!]
>
>
> I leave them in the as-supplied, heat-sealed bag
> and wrap the buckle-end of the bundle with two, #65
> (Post Office) rubber bands. If tie-wraps had
> eyes, they'd be bugging out.
>
> Then cut off the extreme end of the plastic
> bag just inside the seal line.
>
> Now you can pull one tie-wrap at a time
> while its brothers remain ensconced
> in their protective cocoon relatively free
> of dirt. This has been especially useful for
> bundles of tie-wraps that reside in my truck-box.
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip Smith <madriver42(at)gmail.com> |
Took it one step further sorted and re-bagged all the piles of assorted
Ties rattling around in my "tie wraap bin" put in plastic sandwich bags to
achieve the desired results.Great idea and better than just bundling with a
tie wrap.
Phil
On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 1:54 PM skywagon185guy .
wrote:
> . . .NEAT . . .!
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 9:18 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> While breaking out a fresh package of tie-wraps
>> it occurred to me that Listers might find this
>> "tiewrap management tip" useful.
>>
>> [image: Emacs!]
>>
>>
>> I leave them in the as-supplied, heat-sealed bag
>> and wrap the buckle-end of the bundle with two, #65
>> (Post Office) rubber bands. If tie-wraps had
>> eyes, they'd be bugging out.
>>
>> Then cut off the extreme end of the plastic
>> bag just inside the seal line.
>>
>> Now you can pull one tie-wrap at a time
>> while its brothers remain ensconced
>> in their protective cocoon relatively free
>> of dirt. This has been especially useful for
>> bundles of tie-wraps that reside in my truck-box.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Encapsulating connectors SPAM |
This poster is not a member of the List
At 09:15 AM 9/27/2019, you wrote:
>
>hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium
>safe RTV for my aquarium and when I filled the water in the
>aquarium, there appeared some worms at the bottom of aquarium so I
>would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium safe RTV (is this a
>catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
>Just curious if these worms aren't gangerous
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use old VOR antenna for handheld radio? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
I plan on using a headset and mike vs. the handset built ins. Are there pre-fab
extension cables? I don't have a crimper to fabricate one.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491492#491492
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Module |
| From: | "Demixl" <jb100059(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey guys. Does anyone know how to register a trademark? sorry for offtop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491503#491503
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Module |
| From: | "1nvent" <atoamsh(at)gmail.com> |
Demixl wrote:
> Hey guys. Does anyone know how to register a trademark? sorry for offtop
Hey man, Some time ago I had the same question (I am an entrepreneur) - i needed
to register my own trademark and I didn't know how to do it. I searched a lot
and finally found a site that can help. Here it is - https://vakilsearch.com/online-trademark-registration.
It is very easy to register a trademark, it can
be done in just 3 working days. Good luck ;)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491504#491504
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <john(at)tiptonuk.eu> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Module |
https://www.trademarkdirect.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAjwibzsBRAMEiwA1pHZruxSrx3xn
ICHd0QMQuEd5kAHP390PbxKO4ATRCiGFV2bhR_U8lR0qxoCn7oQAvD_BwE
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 28 Sep 2019, at 6:36 pm, Demixl wrote:
>
>
> Hey guys. Does anyone know how to register a trademark? sorry for offtop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491503#491503
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Encapsulating connectors SPAM |
This poster is not a member of the List
At 09:15 AM 9/27/2019, you wrote:
>
>hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium
>safe RTV for my aquarium and when I filled the water in the
>aquarium, there appeared some worms at the bottom of aquarium so I
>would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium safe RTV (is this a
>catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
>Just curious if these worms aren't gangerous
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Use old VOR antenna for handheld radio? |
At 07:19 PM 9/27/2019, you wrote:
>
>I plan on using a headset and mike vs. the handset built ins. Are
>there pre-fab extension cables? I don't have a crimper to fabricate one.
>
>
Tell me how long and what connectors you need.
I can probably build one from the 'junkbox'
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV Module |
At 12:36 PM 9/28/2019, you wrote:
>
>Hey guys. Does anyone know how to register a trademark? sorry for offtop
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491503#491503
NOT A SUBSCRIBED MEMBER OF THIS
LIST. TREAT AS SPAM.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Encapsulating connectors (Quest. for Bob) |
| From: | "ALonDer" <lolianaron11113(at)yahoo.com> |
Demixl wrote:
> hey, friends, I would like to ask you as recently I used aquarium safe RTV for
my aquarium and when I filled the water in the aquarium, there appeared some
worms at the bottom of aquarium so I would like to ask you if it was due to aquarium
safe RTV (is this a catalyst for the growth of these worms or not?)
> Just curious if these worms aren't dangerous
Maybe there are some species of aquarium worms about which I don't know, but from
what I know, they shouldn't be there because of the RTV. Most harmful worms
get into the aquarium with the help of a carrier. Maybe you bought some live
rocks or corals which were not processed properly. That's the case of the Bobbit
worms, which come from the Indo-Pacific ocean. On ARC reef you can find more
(https://arcreef.com/bristle-worms/bobbit-worm-eunice-aphroditois/) about them
and how to remove (if they are the ones from your aquarium).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491540#491540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raymond Lambert <lamber(at)videotron.ca> |
Can anybody suggest a throat mike or modify one for my Icom
Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Paulk <bobbypaulk(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: Congratulations |
> Subject: Congratulations
>
>
> > >
> > For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019
EAA Hall of Fame.
> >
> > Congratulations Bob and thank you for helping an old analog guy adapt
to the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October issue of Sport
Aviation
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Bobby Paulk
> >
> > Lifetime EAA 27207
> >
> > >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations, hall of famer Bob!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations Bob... a well deserved commendation and recognition for
your work to further the hobby/sport/avocation for so many of us. The
experience and knowledge you have provided us over the years is being
officially recognized. A personal thanks as well!
Chris Stone
Rv's, Long-eze and Kitfox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Farek <gfarek(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Congratulations |
Congratulations
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 30, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Bobby Paulk wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
>
>>
>> Subject: Congratulations
>>
>>> For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019 EAA
Hall of Fame.
>>>
>>> Congratulations Bob and thank you for helping an old analog guy adapt t
o the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October issue of Spor
t Aviation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bobby Paulk
>>>
>>> Lifetime EAA 27207
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
==========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
-=========================
==========================
==========================
====================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use old VOR antenna for handheld radio? |
| From: | "farmrjohn" <faithvineyard(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks, I think I found one on eBay (although I don't need the female bulkhead, just a female) http://tinyurl.com/y4uru3w7 A 3' male to female BNC should be sufficient, but an additional foot will provide some more flexibility at the expense of some portable wire clutter in the cockpit.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491555#491555
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> |
| Subject: | Re: Well done Bob |
My congrats, too, Bob!
-- Art Z.
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 4:01 PM Christopher Cee Stone
wrote:
> Congratulations Bob... a well deserved commendation and recognition for
> your work to further the hobby/sport/avocation for so many of us. The
> experience and knowledge you have provided us over the years is being
> officially recognized. A personal thanks as well!
>
>
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
*Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. *Deut. 10:19
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Wynn <mlwynn(at)aol.com> |
I hardily second that.=C2- I could never have successfully wired my RV 8
without the Aeroelectric connection.
Michael WynnRV 8Livermore
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 30, 2019 1:25 pm
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Yay Bob!
Congratulations, hall of famer Bob!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skywagon185guy ." <skywagon185(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Congratulations |
Congratulations Bob.... Glad to see someone as dedicated as you receive
recognition for a real talent..
Note ...not a bad looking dude either... *; >)*
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:12 AM Bobby Paulk wrote:
>
>
> Subject: Congratulations
>
> For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019 EAA
> Hall of Fame.
>
> Congratulations Bob and thank you for helping an old analog guy adapt to
> the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October issue of Sport
> Aviation
>
>
> Bobby Paulk
>
> Lifetime EAA 27207
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | R Adams <rnadms(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Congratulations |
I don't know you, Bob... but from what I have gleaned from this list, it is
evident the award is well deserved
Congratulations!
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:58 AM skywagon185guy .
wrote:
> Congratulations Bob.... Glad to see someone as dedicated as you receive
> recognition for a real talent..
> Note ...not a bad looking dude either... *; >)*
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:12 AM Bobby Paulk
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Congratulations
>>
>> For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019 EAA
>> Hall of Fame.
>>
>> Congratulations Bob and thank you for helping an old analog guy adapt to
>> the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October issue of Sport
>> Aviation
>>
>>
>>
>> Bobby Paulk
>>
>> Lifetime EAA 27207
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Congratulations |
All I have to say is it's about time.=C2- Bob has done more to advance ex
perimental homebuilt airplane building and maintenance than anyone I know.
=C2- Most every builder I know uses his Z diagram plans as their template
s for electrical wiring. Congratulations, Bob.
Henador Titzoff
> wrote:
I don't know you, Bob... but from what I have gleaned from this list, it i
s evident the award is well deserved
Congratulations!
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:58 AM skywagon185guy . wro
te:
Congratulations Bob.... Glad to see someone as dedicated as you receive rec
ognition for a real talent..Note ...not a bad looking dude either...=C2-
; >)
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:12 AM Bobby Paulk wrote
:
Subject: Congratulations
For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019 EAA=C2
- Hall=C2- of Fame.
Congratulations Bob and thank=C2- you for helping an old analog guy adapt
to the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October issue of S
port Aviation
=C2-
Bobby Paulk
Lifetime EAA 27207
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paolo cavosi <paolo.cavosi(at)me.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Congratulations |
Congratulations Bob. Very well deserved.
> Il giorno 1 ott 2019, alle ore 07:03, R Adams ha
scritto:
>
> I don't know you, Bob... but from what I have gleaned from this list,
it is evident the award is well deserved
>
> Congratulations!
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:58 AM skywagon185guy . > wrote:
> Congratulations Bob.... Glad to see someone as dedicated as you
receive recognition for a real talent..
> Note ...not a bad looking dude either... ; >)
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:12 AM Bobby Paulk > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Subject: Congratulations
>>
>>> For those not aware our Bob Nuckolls has been inducted into the 2019
EAA Hall of Fame.
>>>
>>> Congratulations Bob and thank you for helping an old analog guy
adapt to the digital age ( some what : ). Check it out in the October
issue of Sport Aviation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bobby Paulk
>>>
>>> Lifetime EAA 27207
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
At 06:21 AM 10/1/2019, you wrote:
>Congratulations Bob. Very well deserved.
Thank you all for your kind remarks. But
were it not for participation of aviation
enthusiasts all over the country (first on
Compuserve AVSIG and later on the Matronics
Lists), I would not have enjoyed so rich
an opportunity for expansion and sharing of
my knowledge and skills.
ALL of you are essential participants in
establishing the breadth and quality of
this experience. It's been an enjoyable
and rewarding ride but it would not have
happened without all of you; for that
I THANK YOU!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 3:55 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:21 AM 10/1/2019, you wrote:
>
> Congratulations Bob. Very well deserved.
>
>
> Thank you all for your kind remarks. But
> were it not for participation of aviation
> enthusiasts all over the country (first on
> Compuserve AVSIG and later on the Matronics
> Lists), I would not have enjoyed so rich
> an opportunity for expansion and sharing of
> my knowledge and skills.
>
> ALL of you are essential participants in
> establishing the breadth and quality of
> this experience. It's been an enjoyable
> and rewarding ride but it would not have
> happened without all of you; for that
> I THANK YOU!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
I'm just glad I could help.
;-)
Seriously, it's well deserved, and long overdue.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Hutchison <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
Thank you very much from overseas too Bob.
Your efforts and willingness to share experience (hardcopy and on-line) and
well considered advice has been greatly appreciated. Your work would have
saved literally tens of thousands of hours of design contemplation and re-w
ork; cut expenses and improved workmanship quality, design simplicity and s
afety margins. Kit building and General Aviation are in a much better place
thanks to Aeroelectric Connection and your pivotal role in forum conversat
ions.
Many thanks.
Kind regards, Stu
(Australia)
Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Oct 2019, at 07:01, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric
.com> wrote:
At 06:21 AM 10/1/2019, you wrote:
Congratulations Bob. Very well deserved.
Thank you all for your kind remarks. But
were it not for participation of aviation
enthusiasts all over the country (first on
Compuserve AVSIG and later on the Matronics
Lists), I would not have enjoyed so rich
an opportunity for expansion and sharing of
my knowledge and skills.
ALL of you are essential participants in
establishing the breadth and quality of
this experience. It's been an enjoyable
and rewarding ride but it would not have
happened without all of you; for that
I THANK YOU!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "jrevens" <jrevens(at)comcast.net> |
An honor so very well deserved, Bob... congratulations!!
--------
John Evens
Thorp T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox SS7 N27JE (built & flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491575#491575
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> |
There are few people in the world that I think as highly of as I do about Bob Nuckolls.
His induction into the EAA Hall of Fame was as predictable as the sunrise.
This man has truly given himself in time, dedication, and virtually without compensation
to all who have asked and to the multitudes who have quietly absorbed
his patient wisdom and expertise to craft advanced, safe, inexpensive electrical
systems from Pietenpols to Lancair P4s by hanging out on the Aerolectric
List. Despite his professional life work of a half century of consulting and
designing sophisticated systems and for the likes of Lear, Beechcraft, Hawker,
Piper and most of the other certified manufacturing heavyweights, he found time
to start and support the Aerolectric List. Through the list, he has patiently
given his knowledge and rapt attention to us neophytes, just emerging from
the slime of electrical acumen, and always in the most respectful and digestible
language that encouraged discussion and raised the bar of our own expectations.
In a word, Bob is a true TEACHER, and at the risk of sounding maudlin,
the most venerated kind that we are unlikely to forget and will be forever grateful.
Just Superb, Bob!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491593#491593
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Cox <flyboyron(at)gmail.com> |
Add my name to those who have learned more than I ever expected to from Bob
Nuckolls. When I bought Bob's book so many years ago, I knew from the
recommendations of others how useful it was going to be.
What I didn't expect was to have 25 years of easy, direct consulting access
to such a learned and engaging man while I educated myself under his
tutelage, as he answered my questions and those of literally hundreds of
others he'd never even met.
As Bob hoped, I learned nearly as much from you all as I did from his book
over the years, but that would never have happened had he not put together
such a forum, and led it so articulately, with such knowledge and humility.
Bob has always said, "Make my day, prove me wrong." And he meant it. He has
put up with personal attacks from some who just couldn't interact in the
spirit of this place, but he always kept his cool, and continued to offer
what he could while discussing the issues, even with those who were less
than polite.
Congratulations, Bob, it's an honor well deserved. And thanks, from another
one of your most appreciative students.
Ron Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rd2 <rd2(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hall of Fame |
For some reason my email from about a week ago came back as user (or subscriber)
unknown.
So, here it is again: Congratulations Bob! ... well...and long deserved.Rumen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger & Jea <rnjcurtis(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
Thank you all for your kind remarks. But
were it not for participation of aviation
enthusiasts all over the country (first on
Compuserve AVSIG and later on the Matronics
Lists), I would not have enjoyed so rich
an opportunity for expansion and sharing of
my knowledge and skills.
ALL of you are essential participants in
establishing the breadth and quality of
this experience. It's been an enjoyable
and rewarding ride but it would not have
happened without all of you; for that
I THANK YOU!
=C2- Bob . . .
Thanks Bob!
Your work with the Aero-Electric Connection and other publications will liv
e on as a reference for generations to come.
Great Job! Much deserved recognition!!
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Wheeler <markwheelermd(at)icloud.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
Bob,
Congratulations! This a totally deserved honor.
I have learned so much from you and others on this list. I feel much
more confidant starting the wiring of my Cub than I did 2 years ago.
I also know that I can always ask questions in this forum, which is a
real anxiety reducer.
Mark
> On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
wrote:
>
> At 06:21 AM 10/1/2019, you wrote:
>> Congratulations Bob. Very well deserved.
>
> Thank you all for your kind remarks. But
> were it not for participation of aviation
> enthusiasts all over the country (first on
> Compuserve AVSIG and later on the Matronics
> Lists), I would not have enjoyed so rich
> an opportunity for expansion and sharing of
> my knowledge and skills.
>
> ALL of you are essential participants in
> establishing the breadth and quality of
> this experience. It's been an enjoyable
> and rewarding ride but it would not have
> happened without all of you; for that
> I THANK YOU!
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Slobovia Pumpkin Drop time! |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Hoping y'all can make it out on Nov 2 for our annual Pumpkin drop at
Slobovia Outernational (MS71), just north of Jackson MS. Flyer attached;
bring family & friends for some great Cajun food followed by our Pumpkin
Bombing competition.
Charlie, for the Lower Slobovia Garden Club
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "markfw" <markwheelermd(at)icloud.com> |
Bob,
Congratulations! This a totally deserved honor.
I have learned so much from you and others on this list. I feel much more confidant
starting the wiring of my Cub than I did 2 years ago.
I also know that I can always ask questions in this forum, which is a real anxiety
reducer.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491633#491633
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | "markfw" <markwheelermd(at)icloud.com> |
Can anybody explain to me how a dual band antenna like this one:
https://www.dallasavionics.com/comant/ci105-17l.pdf
actually works?
Does it have multiple antennae inside and use bandpass filters to route signals
to the correct antenna?
I am trying to determine if I can share an antenna between my UAT ADS-B unit and
my Mode S transponder.
Thanks.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491634#491634
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
I think that it not a dual band antenna. It is a wide band antenna that operates
at both 978 and 1090 Mhz. Those frequencies are close enough together that
most transponder antennas will work satisfactorily at either frequency. Someone
please correct me if wrong.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491635#491635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | "markfw" <markwheelermd(at)icloud.com> |
Joe,
That certainly is a possibility, but when you look at the web site info, the vendor
lists this:
Frequencies Covered
960-1220 MHz
1030-1020 MHz
978 MHz
1090 1 MHz
To me this implies that there might be more going on than just a wideband antenna.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491637#491637
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Tipton <john(at)tiptonuk.eu> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
But I query, why then is the 1090Mhz, plus, minus 1Mhz
Sent from my iPad
----x--O--x----
> On 6 Oct 2019, at 2:24 am, user9253 wrote:
>
>
> I think that it not a dual band antenna. It is a wide band antenna that operates
at both 978 and 1090 Mhz. Those frequencies are close enough together that
most transponder antennas will work satisfactorily at either frequency. Someone
please correct me if wrong.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491635#491635
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
What can be shared or will be shared depends on the actual ADS-B UAT out
unit you install. Some do share the antenna, some like the uAvionics
wingtip and tail units have their own built in antenna.
To receive ADS-B In you will need a separate antenna, which is usually
built-in for the portables and usually needs separate external for
installed units.
In other words, need to know which unit(s) you are considering to advise
on antennas.
On 10/5/2019 5:52 PM, markfw wrote:
>
> Can anybody explain to me how a dual band antenna like this one:
>
> https://www.dallasavionics.com/comant/ci105-17l.pdf
>
> actually works?
>
> Does it have multiple antennae inside and use bandpass filters to route signals
to the correct antenna?
>
> I am trying to determine if I can share an antenna between my UAT ADS-B unit
and my Mode S transponder.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491634#491634
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The ad says, "capable of both IN and OUT processing"
Notice that it does not say "simultaneous processing". I assume it can only do
one thing at a time. I agree with Kelly. Avionics equipment determines the
antenna requirements. How could two transmitters and a receiver all be connected
to one BNC connector without interfering with each other?
Follow the avionics manufacturer's instructions. Consider "TED" antennas.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491645#491645
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
> But I query, why then is the 1090Mhz, plus, minus 1Mhz
Good question. The antenna is good for any frequency between 960 MHz TO 1220 MHz.
Why would they pick the center frequency within that range and specify plus
or minus one Mhz?
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491646#491646
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | speedy11(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
Mark,I am not familiar with that antenna, but I can tell you what I discove
red.I bought the Echo UAT unit to pair with my classic mode C transponder.
=C2- I contacted Avionix (Echo manufacturer) and they told me to use two
separate antennae separated by the recommended distance.Stan Sutterfield
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual Band Antenna Question
From: "markfw" <markwheelermd(at)icloud.com>
Can anybody explain to me how a dual band antenna like this one:
https://www.dallasavionics.com/comant/ci105-17l.pdf
actually works?
Does it have multiple antennae inside and use bandpass filters to route sig
nals
to the correct antenna?
I am trying to determine if I can share an antenna between my UAT ADS-B uni
t and
my Mode S transponder.
Thanks.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
At 10:00 PM 10/5/2019, you wrote:
>
>Joe,
>
>That certainly is a possibility, but when you
>look at the web site info, the vendor lists this:
>
>Frequencies Covered
>960-1220 MHz
>1030-1020 MHz
>978 MHz
>1090 =C2=B1 1 MHz
>
>To me this implies that there might be more
>going on than just a wideband antenna.
>
>Mark
Probably not . . .
One of the really neat things about antenna measurement
and design is that most characteristics SCALE very
nicely. So if you're wanting to fiddle around with
a 10MHz antenna (rather big) in the lab, you can
scale down to say 100MHz to do the studies and when
your happy with results, you can multiply by 10 and
be very close to the same qualities on the upscaled
antenna.
So borrowing from those knowledge nuggets, let's
take a look at this antenna. It's a simple, 1/4 wave
antenna I built for a telemetry receiver project
about 20 years ago.
Emacs!
That little red box underneath is a vector
network analyzer.
When you plot it's numbers on a vector network
analyzer, you get something like this
Emacs!
Okay, minimum SWR at about 495 Mhz. The
2:1 SWR 'box' extends from 445 to 660
Mhz. So we can say that this antenna
operated at 775 Mhz has a bandwidth
of 214 MHz for an SWR of 2:1 or better.
Okay, let's 'tighten' the box.
Emacs!
If we wanted to stay below 1.5 to 1
SWR, the operating bandwidth would have
to be bounded at 480 to 527 Mhz for
a total bandwidth of 107 Mhz or about
half of the 2:1 boundaries.
Okay, the advertised 960 to 1220 coverage
has a center frequency of (960+1220)/2 or
1090 Mhz. (1220-960)/1090 gives us a 23% total
published service bandwidth. The bench test
antenna has a 21% bandwidth for 1.5:1 SWR . . .
same church and only one pew further forward.
So I think we can assume that the antenna
you've cited is nothing special . . .
a simple 1/4 wave has a very satisfactory
SWR characteristic over that frequency
range. Those 'bands' are simply
citations of the spectrum used by
the various services ALL of which
fall inside the advertised operating
range for the device.
The bench test antenna was a very
slim wire . . . increasing the diameter
or changing the form factor to a 'blade'
would INCREASE bandwidth. The 'shark
fin' antennas will be better at
transferring signals . . . but not
so much better than you'd see any
difference in your airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
At 08:24 PM 10/5/2019, you wrote:
>
>I think that it not a dual band antenna. It is a wide band antenna
>that operates at both 978 and 1090 Mhz. Those frequencies are close
>enough together that most transponder antennas will work
>satisfactorily at either frequency. Someone please correct me if wrong.
Correct . . .
Stealing from the spec sheet:
Emacs!
There are 4 frequency ranges cited, 4
SWR limits and 4 Return loss limits
for each of the four frequency ranges.
They appear to have given themselves some
headroom for the total bandwidth and
call out 2.0:1 max . . . I'm betting it's
lower than that.
Return loss is just a another way of
stating SWR measured with a directional
coupler as opposed to an impedance
bridge.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
At 07:52 PM 10/5/2019, you wrote:
>
>Can anybody explain to me how a dual band antenna like this one:
>
>https://www.dallasavionics.com/comant/ci105-17l.pdf
>
>actually works?
As Joe noted and I demonstrated, it's a
simple antenna with sufficient bandwidth
to offer satisfactory performance on all
those services.
>Does it have multiple antennae inside and use bandpass filters to
>route signals to the correct antenna?
>
>I am trying to determine if I can share an antenna between my UAT
>ADS-B unit and my Mode S transponder.
No, one antenna for EACH system please . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna Question |
At 01:29 AM 10/6/2019, you wrote:
>
>But I query, why then is the 1090Mhz, plus, minus 1Mhz
That just MIGHT be the spec-writer's
attempt to speak to a tolerance on the
antenna's center frequency . . . a
relatively insignificant fact.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations Bob. You have taught me a lot over the years. For those who have
not read the
EAA Sport Aviation 2019 Hall of Fame article, it is on page 94 of the October issue.
It says that Bob:
Earned an amateur radio license when he was about 12 years old.
(Back then it was required to learn the Morris code.)
He got a job at Boeing as an electronics technician upon graduation from high school.
He installed and repaired two way radios.
He taught electronics to Navy students.
He learned technical wiring while working at Cessna.
He is a pilot with over 850 hours.
He has written articles for both Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.
He has sold thousands of copies of his book about aircraft electrical systems.
He was Beech Aircraft's expert on electrics when he retired in 2007.
-
Bob politely corrects my inaccurate posts on the AeroElectric List.
He is my mentor.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491666#491666
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I'll blame it on your spiel chekker.............That would be Morse code
for us really old folks.
On 10/7/2019 6:32 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Congratulations Bob. You have taught me a lot over the years. For those who
have not read the
> EAA Sport Aviation 2019 Hall of Fame article, it is on page 94 of the October
issue. It says that Bob:
> Earned an amateur radio license when he was about 12 years old.
> (Back then it was required to learn the Morris code.)
> He got a job at Boeing as an electronics technician upon graduation from high
school.
> He installed and repaired two way radios.
> He taught electronics to Navy students.
> He learned technical wiring while working at Cessna.
> He is a pilot with over 850 hours.
> He has written articles for both Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.
> He has sold thousands of copies of his book about aircraft electrical systems.
> He was Beech Aircraft's expert on electrics when he retired in 2007.
> -
> Bob politely corrects my inaccurate posts on the AeroElectric List.
> He is my mentor.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491666#491666
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
Very impressive "resume!"
I'll let him correct the code's name. :)
Henador Titzoff
m> wrote:
Congratulations Bob.=C2- You have taught me a lot over the years.=C2- F
or those who have not read the
EAA Sport Aviation 2019 Hall of Fame article, it is on page 94 of the Octob
er issue.=C2- It says that Bob:
Earned an amateur radio license when he was about 12 years old.
(Back then it was required to learn the Morris code.)
He got a job at Boeing as an electronics technician upon graduation from hi
gh school.
He installed and repaired two way radios.
He taught electronics to Navy students.
He learned technical wiring while working at Cessna.
He is a pilot with over 850 hours.
He has written articles for both Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.
He has sold thousands of copies of his book about aircraft electrical syste
ms.
He was Beech Aircraft's expert on electrics when he retired in 2007.
-
Bob politely corrects my inaccurate posts on the AeroElectric List.
He is my mentor.
--------
Joe Gores
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Hey, some of us do speak Cat.
On 10/7/2019 8:53 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> I'll blame it on your spiel chekker.............That would be Morse
> code for us really old folks.
>
> On 10/7/2019 6:32 AM, user9253 wrote:
>>
>> Congratulations Bob. You have taught me a lot over the years. For
>> those who have not read the
>> EAA Sport Aviation 2019 Hall of Fame article, it is on page 94 of the
>> October issue. It says that Bob:
>> Earned an amateur radio license when he was about 12 years old.
>> (Back then it was required to learn the Morris code.)
>> He got a job at Boeing as an electronics technician upon graduation
>> from high school.
>> He installed and repaired two way radios.
>> He taught electronics to Navy students.
>> He learned technical wiring while working at Cessna.
>> He is a pilot with over 850 hours.
>> He has written articles for both Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.
>> He has sold thousands of copies of his book about aircraft electrical
>> systems.
>> He was Beech Aircraft's expert on electrics when he retired in 2007.
>> -
>> Bob politely corrects my inaccurate posts on the AeroElectric List.
>> He is my mentor.
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | Charles Davis <charlesdavis(at)iuncapped.co.za> |
On 2019/10/07 03:53 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> I'll blame it on your spiel chekker.............That would be Morse
> code for us really old folks.
Or was it Morris Dancing ?
Thanks, Bob, for all you do and have done for all of us. An award very
much deserved. Congratulations
Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rod Smith <rodsmith52(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna |
This discussion got me thinking that besides a transponder antenna I neede
d another antenna for ADS-B in/out. Turns out my thinking was correct for t
he Garmin equipment I am installing. The GNX 375 is a combination IFR GPS n
avigator and mode S transponder with ADS-B in/out.
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: G3Xpert <g3xpert(at)garmin.com>To: Rod
Smith Cc: G3Xpert Sent: Monday, O
Rod,
=C2-
The transponder antenna is all that is needed for ADS-B. You will need a GA
35 GPS antenna for the 375 however.
=C2-
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
=C2-
Best regards,
=C2-
Justin Cobb
Aviation Field Service Engineer
1200 E. 151st Street | Olathe, KS 66062, USA | Phone: +1.866.854.8433 |=C2
-Email: G3Xpert(at)Garmin.com
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
From: Rod Smith <rodsmith52(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:06 AM
Subject: Antenna for ADS-B In/Out
=C2-
|
CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments un
less you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
|
=C2-
|
=C2-
|
I am about to purchase a G3X system and want to include the GNX 375 in the
system. Besides the transponder antenna, what kind of antenna do I need for
ADS-B in/out?
=C2-
Thanks,
Rod
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna |
At 10:43 AM 10/7/2019, you wrote:
>This discussion got me thinking that besides a transponder antenna I
>needed another antenna for ADS-B in/out.
Yes.
My posting last night had some problems
with cut-n-paste of the pictures. I've
formalized the posting as an article
and added some data on the effects
of increasing the width of a 1/4-wave
radiator.
See:
https://tinyurl.com/y48flb9y
I'll suggest that the term "dual-band"
in the cited advertisement is mis-leading.
I think I would call it a "wide-band"
antenna suited for a variety of services
within its performance bandwidth.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna |
At 10:43 AM 10/7/2019, you wrote:
>This discussion got me thinking that besides a transponder antenna I
>needed another antenna for ADS-B in/out.
Yes.
My posting last night had some problems
with cut-n-paste of the pictures. I've
formalized the posting as an article
and added some data on the effects
of increasing the width of a 1/4-wave
radiator.
See:
https://tinyurl.com/y48flb9y
I'll suggest that the term "dual-band"
in the cited advertisement is mis-leading.
I think I would call it a "wide-band"
antenna suited for a variety of services
within its performance bandwidth.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Band Antenna |
My posting last night had some problems
with cut-n-paste of the pictures. I've
formalized the posting as an article
and added some data on the effects
of increasing physical width of a 1/4-wave
radiator.
See:
https://tinyurl.com/y48flb9y
I'll suggest that the term "dual-band"
in the cited advertisement is mis-leading.
I think I would call it a "wide-band"
antenna suited for a variety of services
within its performance bandwidth.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Z-14 modified for dual SDS EFI EM-5-F |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm a believer in Aeroelectric Connection and have worked up a Z-14 modified for
use with dual SDS EFI EM-5-F.
I'd like to get as much of a peer review as possible to see how I'm doing so I've
attached the drawing here as well as my notes.
I also have a checklist from engine start to engine shut-down that I can share
if there is an interest.
I'm just getting started on a wire-by-wire failure analysis that's not ready for
prime time yet.
Thanks!
--------
John Bright, RV-6A, at Finish Kit
Continental Titan O-360, 8.5:1, vertical sump, SDS EM-5-F
Z-14 modified
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491690#491690
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/notes_z_14_modified_for_sds_dual_em_5_efi_116.docx
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z_14_modified_for_dual_em_5_f_rev_ir_130.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> |
This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question
won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that
may have already been covered that I have yet to find...
I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring. All have been very helpful
and I have learned much.
I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540. With the help of Nathan
over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual
alternator single battery set up. From Bob's book, I have selected to follow
the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.
Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just
need to "see it". For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery
ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel. Im not sure what that looks
like? Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe? Other connections
are difficult to imagine as well. I appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated
in the drawings. Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the
actual connections.
Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google RV-7 builders log for various builders pics. Which I have but still coming up short.
Thanks for your help!
--------
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Verwey <bob.verwey(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
Hi Rob and welcome!
There are no "dumb questions " here!
Best...
Bob Verwey
082 331 2727
On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 14:03, bearhawklife wrote:
> rob(at)robcaldwell.net>
>
> This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first
> question won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on
> topic that may have already been covered that I have yet to find...
>
> I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring. All have been
> very helpful and I have learned much.
>
> I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540. With the help of
> Nathan over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go wi
th
> a dual alternator single battery set up. From Bob's book, I have selecte
d
> to follow the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.
>
> Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I
> just need to "see it". For example, indicating on a schematic that the
> main battery ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel. I
=99m not
> sure what that looks like? Or the ground from the engine case to the
> airframe? Other connections are difficult to imagine as well. I
> appreciate the routing and wire sizes indicated in the drawings. Just
> curious if there is a resource for seeing the actual connections.
>
> Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just
> google =9CRV-7 builders log=9D for various builders pics. Wh
ich I have but
> still coming up short.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> --------
> Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I don't see your question as "dumb" at all. If you can find pictures of
firewall on most aircraft, you can see a lot of the wiring of major
components, such as starter relay, shunt, and so forth. I don't know if
you are wanting to see what the connectors look like....mostly ring
terminals of various sizes and "fast-on" connectors for most ground
connections. It is relatively common to run main positive battery lead
from the master solenoid to the starter solenoid, and then connect the
main bus to that same terminal. Also relatively common to use the
airframe (tube structure in your case) for grounding large current
items, while running all low current (avionic item) grounds to a single
point. You will find that a lot of type certificated aircraft follow
those methods, and many shops will let you eyeball the firewall forward
on aircraft that they have removed cowling. Most of the connections
other than avionics bus and lighting are in the firewall forward area.
Some aircraft, like composite, lacking metal tube frame or all metal
skin have to do things differently.
You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors
led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.
Kelly
On 10/9/2019 4:56 AM, bearhawklife wrote:
>
> This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question
won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that
may have already been covered that I have yet to find...
>
> I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring. All have been very
helpful and I have learned much.
>
> I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540. With the help of Nathan
over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual
alternator single battery set up. From Bob's book, I have selected to follow
the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.
>
> Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just
need to "see it". For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery
ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel. Im not sure what that looks
like? Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe? Other connections
are difficult to imagine as well. I appreciate the routing and wire sizes
indicated in the drawings. Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the
actual connections.
>
> Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google RV-7 builders log for various builders pics. Which I have but still coming up short.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> --------
> Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491694#491694
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/z12m_107.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver for sale |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
It can be portable or mounted and the only connection you need is a USB
cable for power. It is practically brand new and never used in my
plane. I just updated the software and firmware and to be sure it
worked, started it up on my kitchen table. I was unable to receive any
weather for two reasons, first it is a beautiful day! And second, being
on the ground I shouldn't be able to receive weather on it anyway!
I took a screenshot of part of the database on the Flightbox. Note that
it includes many more aircraft than it needs to display on the map.
Again this was from my kitchen table!
A screenshot of the AVARE screen and the displayed traffic around me
and KROC at that time. (Note that Avare allows one to select the icon
for your own aircraft...hence the Long EZ sitting on top of my house!) I
added the orange rings to highlight the aircraft and identifiers the
Flight Box picked up this afternoon.
It sells for $239 new, so I think that $180 would be a fair price. If
anyone is interested, please let me know. I would prefer payment by
Paypal, as I can send it out immediately, but a check will be accepted.
(Or cash, if you're in the Henrietta/Canandaigua NY areas!). Contact me
either here or by PM if interested.
harley(at)agelesswings.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver for sale |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
It can be portable or mounted and the only connection you need is a USB
cable for power. It is practically brand new and never used in my
plane. I just updated the software and firmware and to be sure it
worked, started it up on my kitchen table. I was unable to receive any
weather for two reasons, first it is a beautiful day! And second, being
on the ground I shouldn't be able to receive weather on it anyway!
I took a screenshot of part of the database on the Flightbox. Note that
it includes many more aircraft than it needs to display on the map.
Again this was from my kitchen table!
A screenshot of the AVARE screen and the displayed traffic around me
and KROC at that time. (Note that Avare allows one to select the icon
for your own aircraft...hence the Long EZ sitting on top of my house!) I
added the orange rings to highlight the aircraft and identifiers the
Flight Box picked up this afternoon.
It sells for $239 new, so I think that $180 would be a fair price. If
anyone is interested, please let me know. I would prefer payment by
Paypal, as I can send it out immediately, but a check will be accepted.
(Or cash, if you're in the Henrietta/Canandaigua NY areas!). Contact me
either here or by PM if interested.
harley(at)agelesswings.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver for sale |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
It can be portable or mounted and the only connection you need is a USB
cable for power. It is practically brand new and never used in my
plane. I just updated the software and firmware and to be sure it
worked, started it up on my kitchen table. I was unable to receive any
weather for two reasons, first it is a beautiful day! And second, being
on the ground I shouldn't be able to receive weather on it anyway!
I took a screenshot of part of the database on the Flightbox. Note that
it includes many more aircraft than it needs to display on the map.
Again this was from my kitchen table!
A screenshot of the AVARE screen and the displayed traffic around me
and KROC at that time. (Note that Avare allows one to select the icon
for your own aircraft...hence the Long EZ sitting on top of my house!) I
added the orange rings to highlight the aircraft and identifiers the
Flight Box picked up this afternoon.
It sells for $239 new, so I think that $180 would be a fair price. If
anyone is interested, please let me know. I would prefer payment by
Paypal, as I can send it out immediately, but a check will be accepted.
(Or cash, if you're in the Henrietta/Canandaigua NY areas!). Contact me
either here or by PM if interested.
harley(at)agelesswings.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> |
Kellym wrote:
> .......
> You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors
> led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.
>
> Kelly
>
My ignition system will be one SureFly EI and one Slick mag. I was originally
thinking dual Light Speed EI. But was turned off after understanding the complexity
(just my impression) of all the ancillary and satellite components and
mounting locations (additional battery, coil packs, modules on the cold side of
the firewall, with cooling fans, etc). SureFly came out with their 6 cylinder
mag replacement version recently. This immediately became the answer for me.
I'm not building a race plane, just wanted the improved performance of EI.
I am using B&C's BC460-H 60amp (main) and BC410-H 20-30amp (b/u) alternators.
SkyTec 149NL Starter.
--------
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491698#491698
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Voltage Regulators |
I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12 plus ho
urs into the flight testing phase.=C2- I started with the dual battery, d
ual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go into here but suf
fice to say it has turned into more of an issue than I bargained for.=C2-
First was centered around the original Odyssey batteries not being able to
spin the new engine for a start even with them in parallel.=C2- Yes, one
was older and didn't seem to be able to hold the charge.=C2- I opted to
replace both with the EarthX batteries which have proven to be more than en
ough for starting.=C2- The replacement was justified on the basis of a 22
lb weight savings and a three times longer life span.=C2- BUT no good de
ed goes unpunished.
That brings me to the real reason for my post.
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point across
. =C2-=C2-
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
Why the shouting?=C2- Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the insi
de of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access and the o
nly choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and everything in front of
the panel including the voltage regulators to get access to the adjustment
screws. =C2-
I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along with
the voltage regulators from B & C.=C2- Running the dual system with separ
ate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage condition and
throwing the circuit breakers.=C2- Switched configurations to join the b
usses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got the same result afte
r about an hour of flying.=C2- Switched configuration again to run with j
ust the backup alternator and after almost two hours of flight time it also
triggered the over voltage.=C2- Both alternators eventually peaked at ju
st over 16 volts.=C2- My only solution without tearing out everything in
front of the panel is to watch voltage build up and add load when it starts
to peak.=C2- I plan to take the plane out of service sometime during the
winter months and redo the wiring along with relocation of the voltage reg
ulators.=C2- I will also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel bat
teries, single buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active
at any one time.=C2- I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the
dual ecu FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each b
attery.
I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will need a
djustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
Bob ReedN247BR Kis Cruiser
PS:=C2- I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires t
han you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall.=C2- And each one get
s harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to mount th
em all individually.=C2- Bob's book outlines a few alternatives, use them
!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver for sale |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
It can be portable or mounted and the only connection you need is a USB
cable for power. It is practically brand new and never used in my
plane. I just updated the software and firmware and to be sure it
worked, started it up on my kitchen table. I was unable to receive any
weather for two reasons, first it is a beautiful day! And second, being
on the ground I shouldn't be able to receive weather on it anyway!
I took a screenshot of part of the database on the Flightbox. Note that
it includes many more aircraft than it needs to display on the map.
Again this was from my kitchen table!
A screenshot of the AVARE screen and the displayed traffic around me
and KROC at that time. (Note that Avare allows one to select the icon
for your own aircraft...hence the Long EZ sitting on top of my house!) I
added the orange rings to highlight the aircraft and identifiers the
Flight Box picked up this afternoon.
It sells for $239 new, so I think that $180 would be a fair price. If
anyone is interested, please let me know. I would prefer payment by
Paypal, as I can send it out immediately, but a check will be accepted.
(Or cash, if you're in the Henrietta/Canandaigua NY areas!). Contact me
either here or by PM if interested.
harley(at)agelesswings.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
Robert,
Why do you think the Odessy batts couldn't crank the engine?=C2- A couple
of questions:
1. What model/part# Odessey batteries were you using?2. Where were they loc
ated?=C2- Firewall, aft of the cabin?3. What size cable from solenoid to
starter, and how long?4. Did the start circuit go thru the master solenoid
and then the start solenoid?5. What engine & starter?
I'm planning electrical system for a couple of aircraft and could learn fro
m your experience.=C2- I've heard that Odessey batteries aren't what they
used to be, but that is only hearsay.=C2- I have no hard facts.
Thanks,
Jeff LuckeyKCMA
@att.net> wrote:
I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12 plus h
ours into the flight testing phase.=C2- I started with the dual battery,
dual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go into here but su
ffice to say it has turned into more of an issue than I bargained for.=C2
- First was centered around the original Odyssey batteries not being able
to spin the new engine for a start even with them in parallel.=C2- Yes,
one was older and didn't seem to be able to hold the charge.=C2- I opted
to replace both with the EarthX batteries which have proven to be more than
enough for starting.=C2- The replacement was justified on the basis of a
22 lb weight savings and a three times longer life span.=C2- BUT no good
deed goes unpunished.
That brings me to the real reason for my post.
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point across
. =C2-=C2-
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
Why the shouting?=C2- Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the insi
de of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access and the o
nly choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and everything in front of
the panel including the voltage regulators to get access to the adjustment
screws. =C2-
I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along with
the voltage regulators from B & C.=C2- Running the dual system with separ
ate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage condition and
throwing the circuit breakers.=C2- Switched configurations to join the b
usses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got the same result afte
r about an hour of flying.=C2- Switched configuration again to run with j
ust the backup alternator and after almost two hours of flight time it also
triggered the over voltage.=C2- Both alternators eventually peaked at ju
st over 16 volts.=C2- My only solution without tearing out everything in
front of the panel is to watch voltage build up and add load when it starts
to peak.=C2- I plan to take the plane out of service sometime during the
winter months and redo the wiring along with relocation of the voltage reg
ulators.=C2- I will also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel bat
teries, single buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active
at any one time.=C2- I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the
dual ecu FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each b
attery.
I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will need a
djustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
Bob ReedN247BR Kis Cruiser
PS:=C2- I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires t
han you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall.=C2- And each one get
s harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to mount th
em all individually.=C2- Bob's book outlines a few alternatives, use them
!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> |
>
>
> Rob hard to find some pictures from 16 years ago :) Here you see the two
fuseblocks of main and essential bus, if you go to the right you see on the
FW the forrest of tabs (under that grey tube) from the ground bus and the
big brass screw going through the FW where on the other side a flexibel
strap goes to the engine. This is a plexi FW fitted to see where to drill
holes before fitting the real FW.
Thanks so much!
--------
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491703#491703
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver for sale |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
It can be portable or mounted and the only connection you need is a USB
cable for power. It is practically brand new and never used in my
plane. I just updated the software and firmware and to be sure it
worked, started it up on my kitchen table. I was unable to receive any
weather for two reasons, first it is a beautiful day! And second, being
on the ground I shouldn't be able to receive weather on it anyway!
I took a screenshot of part of the database on the Flightbox. Note that
it includes many more aircraft than it needs to display on the map.
Again this was from my kitchen table!
A screenshot of the AVARE screen and the displayed traffic around me
and KROC at that time. (Note that Avare allows one to select the icon
for your own aircraft...hence the Long EZ sitting on top of my house!) I
added the orange rings to highlight the aircraft and identifiers the
Flight Box picked up this afternoon.
It sells for $239 new, so I think that $180 would be a fair price. If
anyone is interested, please let me know. I would prefer payment by
Paypal, as I can send it out immediately, but a check will be accepted.
(Or cash, if you're in the Henrietta/Canandaigua NY areas!). Contact me
either here or by PM if interested.
harley(at)agelesswings.com
Harley Dixon
Long EZ N28EZ
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
Jeff,
I was using the PC680 batteries and they are located under the pilot and co
pilot seats.
The master solenoids are located under the seats with the batteries and the
crossover and starter relays are on the firewall.
The cables are the flexible 4awg cables with total run from batteries to st
arter of apx 7 ft.
Cables run from batteries to firewall connection to starter with one going
through crossover relay.
Engine is Superior IO-360 but I don't remember which starter and all that i
nformation is at the hangar.
Biggest issue was probably that the engine was new, very tight and took mor
e than a couple of revolutions to start.=C2- Also one of the batteries wa
s a couple of years old and had been used for testing during the build proc
ess.=C2- It had been drained to zero a couple of times because of some fo
ol leaving a switch on...that fool being me.=C2- The second battery just
didn't have the power by itself to get it spinning for the initial starts.
=C2- I knew that the one battery was weak and probably could have been re
placed alone without totally replacing both batteries but I wanted to get s
ome weight savings.
I can't comment on the Odyssey batteries beyond my limited usage and would
say that I didn't give them a fair shake.=C2- Any issue with them was pro
bably of my own making.=C2- My plane was heavier that I wanted and replac
ing the Odyssey batteries was a good option since I needed to replace at le
ast one of the batteries so don't use my experience as your determining fac
tor.
Bob Reed
cbell.net> wrote:
Robert,
Why do you think the Odessy batts couldn't crank the engine?=C2- A couple
of questions:
1. What model/part# Odessey batteries were you using?2. Where were they loc
ated?=C2- Firewall, aft of the cabin?3. What size cable from solenoid to
starter, and how long?4. Did the start circuit go thru the master solenoid
and then the start solenoid?5. What engine & starter?
I'm planning electrical system for a couple of aircraft and could learn fro
m your experience.=C2- I've heard that Odessey batteries aren't what they
used to be, but that is only hearsay.=C2- I have no hard facts.
Thanks,
Jeff LuckeyKCMA
@att.net> wrote:
I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12 plus h
ours into the flight testing phase.=C2- I started with the dual battery,
dual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go into here but su
ffice to say it has turned into more of an issue than I bargained for.=C2
- First was centered around the original Odyssey batteries not being able
to spin the new engine for a start even with them in parallel.=C2- Yes,
one was older and didn't seem to be able to hold the charge.=C2- I opted
to replace both with the EarthX batteries which have proven to be more than
enough for starting.=C2- The replacement was justified on the basis of a
22 lb weight savings and a three times longer life span.=C2- BUT no good
deed goes unpunished.
That brings me to the real reason for my post.
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point across
. =C2-=C2-
PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE ACCESS
TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
Why the shouting?=C2- Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the insi
de of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access and the o
nly choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and everything in front of
the panel including the voltage regulators to get access to the adjustment
screws. =C2-
I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along with
the voltage regulators from B & C.=C2- Running the dual system with separ
ate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage condition and
throwing the circuit breakers.=C2- Switched configurations to join the b
usses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got the same result afte
r about an hour of flying.=C2- Switched configuration again to run with j
ust the backup alternator and after almost two hours of flight time it also
triggered the over voltage.=C2- Both alternators eventually peaked at ju
st over 16 volts.=C2- My only solution without tearing out everything in
front of the panel is to watch voltage build up and add load when it starts
to peak.=C2- I plan to take the plane out of service sometime during the
winter months and redo the wiring along with relocation of the voltage reg
ulators.=C2- I will also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel bat
teries, single buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active
at any one time.=C2- I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the
dual ecu FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each b
attery.
I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will need a
djustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
Bob ReedN247BR Kis Cruiser
PS:=C2- I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires t
han you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall.=C2- And each one get
s harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to mount th
em all individually.=C2- Bob's book outlines a few alternatives, use them
!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
One option is to use a forest of tabs.
Here is a link to pictures: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=99656
B&C sells forest of tabs.
https://bandc.com/search/?search_results=ground+block
You do not necessarily have to use a forest of tabs. Another option is to buy
a brass bolt made for toilets. Drill a hole through the firewall. Attach battery
Ground and engine ground to the brass bolt on the engine side of the
firewall. Attach other grounds with ring terminals to the brass bolt on the aft
side of the firewall. More than one wire may be crimped or soldered into each
ring terminal. Internal tooth star washers will prevent loosening of the nut and
bolt.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491708#491708
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
There has been some 'noise' of late on one of the RV forums about poor
performance/short life from newer Odyssey PC680 bats. Of course, the
problem with anecdotal evidence is that we rarely know the practitioner
or their abilities.
My issue with Odyssey is more along the lines of value (what you get for
the money), rather than quality. A good analogy would be Bob's tests
many years ago, comparing the energy available in the two 'premium'
name-brand alkaline batteries vs various 'no name', 'white label', etc
alkaline batteries. The difference in average total energy (how long
they last) between premium and 'cheap' was almost lost in measurement
noise, but price could be double or even three times higher for
name-brand versions.
I've found similar results (though no actual side-by-side tests) using
various 'unknown' branded SLA batteries. Most last 3 to 5 years in my
seldom-flown RV-4, which might go several months between flights in some
cases. I just purchased a 20 AH SLA battery, in the same form factor as
the PC680, for less than $37, delivered to my mailbox. A PC680 is 16
AH, and the average street price right now is over 3 times that much.
The one minor caution when buying an unfamiliar SLA is to look for the
'internal resistance', if you can find the spec. Anything under 8
mili-ohms is fine. If the internal resistance isn't spec'd, then look at
'cold cranking amps'. (PC680 is 170A.) If CCA isn't spec'd, and you
don't see any reference to use in a gas powered vehicle, you *might* be
looking at one that's specifically designed for 'deep discharge', lower
continuous current operation (like an uninterruptible power supply), but
it's rarely a real issue with SLAs that are this big.
Separate post coming to Bob....
Charlie
On 10/9/2019 12:14 PM, Robert Reed wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I was using the PC680 batteries and they are located under the pilot
> and copilot seats.
>
> The master solenoids are located under the seats with the batteries
> and the crossover and starter relays are on the firewall.
>
> The cables are the flexible 4awg cables with total run from batteries
> to starter of apx 7 ft.
>
> Cables run from batteries to firewall connection to starter with one
> going through crossover relay.
>
> Engine is Superior IO-360 but I don't remember which starter and all
> that information is at the hangar.
>
> Biggest issue was probably that the engine was new, very tight and
> took more than a couple of revolutions to start. Also one of the
> batteries was a couple of years old and had been used for testing
> during the build process. It had been drained to zero a couple of
> times because of some fool leaving a switch on...that fool being me.
> The second battery just didn't have the power by itself to get it
> spinning for the initial starts. I knew that the one battery was weak
> and probably could have been replaced alone without totally replacing
> both batteries but I wanted to get some weight savings.
>
> I can't comment on the Odyssey batteries beyond my limited usage and
> would say that I didn't give them a fair shake. Any issue with them
> was probably of my own making. My plane was heavier that I wanted and
> replacing the Odyssey batteries was a good option since I needed to
> replace at least one of the batteries so don't use my experience as
> your determining factor.
>
> Bob Reed
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Robert,
>
> Why do you think the Odessy batts couldn't crank the engine? A couple
> of questions:
>
> 1. What model/part# Odessey batteries were you using?
> 2. Where were they located? Firewall, aft of the cabin?
> 3. What size cable from solenoid to starter, and how long?
> 4. Did the start circuit go thru the master solenoid and then the
> start solenoid?
> 5. What engine & starter?
>
>
> I'm planning electrical system for a couple of aircraft and could
> learn from your experience. I've heard that Odessey batteries aren't
> what they used to be, but that is only hearsay. I have no hard facts.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Luckey
> KCMA
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12
> plus hours into the flight testing phase. I started with the dual
> battery, dual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go
> into here but suffice to say it has turned into more of an issue than
> I bargained for. First was centered around the original Odyssey
> batteries not being able to spin the new engine for a start even with
> them in parallel. Yes, one was older and didn't seem to be able to
> hold the charge. I opted to replace both with the EarthX batteries
> which have proven to be more than enough for starting. The
> replacement was justified on the basis of a 22 lb weight savings and a
> three times longer life span. BUT no good deed goes unpunished.
>
> That brings me to the real reason for my post.
>
>
> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>
> I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point
> across.
>
> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>
> Why the shouting? Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the
> inside of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access
> and the only choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and
> everything in front of the panel including the voltage regulators to
> get access to the adjustment screws.
>
> I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along
> with the voltage regulators from B & C. Running the dual system with
> separate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage
> condition and throwing the circuit breakers. Switched configurations
> to join the busses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got
> the same result after about an hour of flying. Switched configuration
> again to run with just the backup alternator and after almost two
> hours of flight time it also triggered the over voltage. Both
> alternators eventually peaked at just over 16 volts. My only solution
> without tearing out everything in front of the panel is to watch
> voltage build up and add load when it starts to peak. I plan to take
> the plane out of service sometime during the winter months and redo
> the wiring along with relocation of the voltage regulators. I will
> also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel batteries, single
> buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active at any
> one time. I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the dual ecu
> FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each battery.
>
> I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will
> need adjustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
>
> Bob Reed
> N247BR Kis Cruiser
>
> PS: I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires
> than you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall. And each one
> gets harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to
> mount them all individually. Bob's book outlines a few alternatives,
> use them!
>
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 10/9/2019 9:45 AM, Robert Reed wrote:
> I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12
> plus hours into the flight testing phase. I started with the dual
> battery, dual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go
> into here but suffice to say it has turned into more of an issue than
> I bargained for. First was centered around the original Odyssey
> batteries not being able to spin the new engine for a start even with
> them in parallel. Yes, one was older and didn't seem to be able to
> hold the charge. I opted to replace both with the EarthX batteries
> which have proven to be more than enough for starting. The
> replacement was justified on the basis of a 22 lb weight savings and a
> three times longer life span. BUT no good deed goes unpunished.
>
> That brings me to the real reason for my post.
>
>
> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>
> I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point
> across.
>
> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>
> Why the shouting? Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the
> inside of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access
> and the only choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and
> everything in front of the panel including the voltage regulators to
> get access to the adjustment screws.
>
> I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along
> with the voltage regulators from B & C. Running the dual system with
> separate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage
> condition and throwing the circuit breakers. Switched configurations
> to join the busses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got
> the same result after about an hour of flying. Switched configuration
> again to run with just the backup alternator and after almost two
> hours of flight time it also triggered the over voltage. Both
> alternators eventually peaked at just over 16 volts. My only solution
> without tearing out everything in front of the panel is to watch
> voltage build up and add load when it starts to peak. I plan to take
> the plane out of service sometime during the winter months and redo
> the wiring along with relocation of the voltage regulators. I will
> also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel batteries, single
> buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active at any
> one time. I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the dual ecu
> FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each battery.
>
> I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will
> need adjustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
>
> Bob Reed
> N247BR Kis Cruiser
>
> PS: I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires
> than you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall. And each one
> gets harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to
> mount them all individually. Bob's book outlines a few alternatives,
> use them!
>
Hi Bob,
I wholeheartedly agree about accessibility, but we shouldn't limit it to
adjustable stuff. I've suggested before that in future revisions to the
'Connection, he should hammer us at every chance throughout the book to
build *everything* (and *document everything*) where we'll have access
after the plane is closed up and flying.
On the subject of seeing 16V out of your alternators: Something is very
wrong. Either the regulators weren't adjusted properly from the mfgr, or
their adjustments got changed, or your voltage measurement device is
defective, or something's broken. The regulator should never allow
alternator voltage to rise above its 'set point'. And you should never
see alternator voltage decline until you've loaded the alternator beyond
its capacity (should be almost impossible with a 60A alternator and a
healthy battery in an a/c with a complement of 'modern' electronics). If
I had expensive avionics in the plane, I'd be very fearful of operating
it until I figured out the source of the problems. The next voltage
excursion might be to 30 volts, or 60 volts, or... If you're running
B&C regulators, I'd be surprised if both had the same failure at the
same time. I wonder if you could have an issue with voltage sensing,
making the regulator think that alternator voltage is lower than reality.
On starting: I'd agree that your problem with the PC680s was likely due
to old, tired batteries, but 7 feet of #4 cable (especially if that's
each way, in a 'glass a/c) might be a bit much for starting. A lot of
builders are using #2 if the battery isn't on the firewall.
One last thing, if you parallel the batteries, you won't really have
redundant power to your dual engine controllers any more....
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> |
user9253 wrote:
> One option is to use a forest of tabs.
> Here is a link to pictures: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=99656
> B&C sells forest of tabs.
> https://bandc.com/search/?search_results=ground+block
> You do not necessarily have to use a forest of tabs. Another option is to buy
> a brass bolt made for toilets. Drill a hole through the firewall. Attach battery
> Ground and engine ground to the brass bolt on the engine side of the
> firewall. Attach other grounds with ring terminals to the brass bolt on the
aft
> side of the firewall. More than one wire may be crimped or soldered into each
> ring terminal. Internal tooth star washers will prevent loosening of the nut
and bolt.
I had not considered the firewall itself as the "airframe" ground. My literal
brain was imagining the structural tube fuselage to make the airframe.
--------
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491711#491711
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Ok, your EI does encourage a second power source, which could be 2nd
battery or alternator. By mission, I am thinking more whether you would
be doing back country flying where starting or replacement parts could
be an issue, or more than occasional IFR where redundancy could be more
critical. As Bob stresses, design requires thinking of all failure modes
and what best mitigates the risk, based on mission. Not suggesting that
you haven't already done that, just that it is a consideration in how to
wire to keep simple with minimum possible failure points.
On 10/9/2019 7:43 AM, bearhawklife wrote:
>
>
> Kellym wrote:
>> .......
>> You might find additional help if you can describe what mission factors
>> led to your dual alternator, single battery configuration.
>>
>> Kelly
>>
>
>
>
> My ignition system will be one SureFly EI and one Slick mag. I was originally
thinking dual Light Speed EI. But was turned off after understanding the complexity
(just my impression) of all the ancillary and satellite components and
mounting locations (additional battery, coil packs, modules on the cold side
of the firewall, with cooling fans, etc). SureFly came out with their 6 cylinder
mag replacement version recently. This immediately became the answer for
me. I'm not building a race plane, just wanted the improved performance of EI.
I am using B&C's BC460-H 60amp (main) and BC410-H 20-30amp (b/u) alternators.
SkyTec 149NL Starter.
>
> --------
> Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491698#491698
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near full
charge without much draw down. In other words, kept on a maintainer full
time. Odyssey has a letter on their support web page that describes
drawing the battery down to 10V with a landing light or similar load.
Then using Odyssey or similar programmed charger to fully recharge, to
restore capacity.
I have numerous friends cranking an IO-360 or O-360 with PC680 battery.
The lightweight PM versions of Skytec are a poor choice as they are low
torque and need a lot of current to overcome the first compression
stroke. The In Line (NL) series starters are much lower current draw.
On 10/9/2019 11:08 AM, Charlie England wrote:
> There has been some 'noise' of late on one of the RV forums about poor
> performance/short life from newer Odyssey PC680 bats. Of course, the
> problem with anecdotal evidence is that we rarely know the practitioner
> or their abilities.
>
> My issue with Odyssey is more along the lines of value (what you get for
> the money), rather than quality. A good analogy would be Bob's tests
> many years ago, comparing the energy available in the two 'premium'
> name-brand alkaline batteries vs various 'no name', 'white label', etc
> alkaline batteries. The difference in average total energy (how long
> they last) between premium and 'cheap' was almost lost in measurement
> noise, but price could be double or even three times higher for
> name-brand versions.
>
> I've found similar results (though no actual side-by-side tests) using
> various 'unknown' branded SLA batteries. Most last 3 to 5 years in my
> seldom-flown RV-4, which might go several months between flights in some
> cases. I just purchased a 20 AH SLA battery, in the same form factor as
> the PC680, for less than $37, delivered to my mailbox. A PC680 is 16
> AH, and the average street price right now is over 3 times that much.
>
> The one minor caution when buying an unfamiliar SLA is to look for the
> 'internal resistance', if you can find the spec. Anything under 8
> mili-ohms is fine. If the internal resistance isn't spec'd, then look at
> 'cold cranking amps'. (PC680 is 170A.) If CCA isn't spec'd, and you
> don't see any reference to use in a gas powered vehicle, you *might* be
> looking at one that's specifically designed for 'deep discharge', lower
> continuous current operation (like an uninterruptible power supply), but
> it's rarely a real issue with SLAs that are this big.
>
> Separate post coming to Bob....
>
> Charlie
>
> On 10/9/2019 12:14 PM, Robert Reed wrote:
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I was using the PC680 batteries and they are located under the pilot
>> and copilot seats.
>>
>> The master solenoids are located under the seats with the batteries
>> and the crossover and starter relays are on the firewall.
>>
>> The cables are the flexible 4awg cables with total run from batteries
>> to starter of apx 7 ft.
>>
>> Cables run from batteries to firewall connection to starter with one
>> going through crossover relay.
>>
>> Engine is Superior IO-360 but I don't remember which starter and all
>> that information is at the hangar.
>>
>> Biggest issue was probably that the engine was new, very tight and
>> took more than a couple of revolutions to start. Also one of the
>> batteries was a couple of years old and had been used for testing
>> during the build process. It had been drained to zero a couple of
>> times because of some fool leaving a switch on...that fool being me.
>> The second battery just didn't have the power by itself to get it
>> spinning for the initial starts. I knew that the one battery was weak
>> and probably could have been replaced alone without totally replacing
>> both batteries but I wanted to get some weight savings.
>>
>> I can't comment on the Odyssey batteries beyond my limited usage and
>> would say that I didn't give them a fair shake. Any issue with them
>> was probably of my own making. My plane was heavier that I wanted and
>> replacing the Odyssey batteries was a good option since I needed to
>> replace at least one of the batteries so don't use my experience as
>> your determining factor.
>>
>> Bob Reed
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> Why do you think the Odessy batts couldn't crank the engine? A couple
>> of questions:
>>
>> 1. What model/part# Odessey batteries were you using?
>> 2. Where were they located? Firewall, aft of the cabin?
>> 3. What size cable from solenoid to starter, and how long?
>> 4. Did the start circuit go thru the master solenoid and then the
>> start solenoid?
>> 5. What engine & starter?
>>
>>
>> I'm planning electrical system for a couple of aircraft and could
>> learn from your experience. I've heard that Odessey batteries aren't
>> what they used to be, but that is only hearsay. I have no hard facts.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff Luckey
>> KCMA
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I finished my build on a KIS Cruiser earlier this year and I am 12
>> plus hours into the flight testing phase. I started with the dual
>> battery, dual alternator system for several reasons that I won't go
>> into here but suffice to say it has turned into more of an issue than
>> I bargained for. First was centered around the original Odyssey
>> batteries not being able to spin the new engine for a start even with
>> them in parallel. Yes, one was older and didn't seem to be able to
>> hold the charge. I opted to replace both with the EarthX batteries
>> which have proven to be more than enough for starting. The
>> replacement was justified on the basis of a 22 lb weight savings and a
>> three times longer life span. BUT no good deed goes unpunished.
>>
>> That brings me to the real reason for my post.
>>
>>
>> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
>> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> I know, I was shouting but I wanted to make dang sure I got my point
>> across.
>>
>> PUT YOUR VOLTAGE REGULATORS WHERE YOU CAN EASILY REACH THEM AND HAVE
>> ACCESS TO THE VOLTAGE ADJUSTMENT!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Why the shouting? Because I mounted my voltage regulators on the
>> inside of the firewall under a cross brace that totally blocks access
>> and the only choice for me is to rip out my entire panel and
>> everything in front of the panel including the voltage regulators to
>> get access to the adjustment screws.
>>
>> I purchased the 60 amp alternator and the 20-40 amp alternators along
>> with the voltage regulators from B & C. Running the dual system with
>> separate busses resulted in both alternators having an overvoltage
>> condition and throwing the circuit breakers. Switched configurations
>> to join the busses and run with just the Primary Alternator and got
>> the same result after about an hour of flying. Switched configuration
>> again to run with just the backup alternator and after almost two
>> hours of flight time it also triggered the over voltage. Both
>> alternators eventually peaked at just over 16 volts. My only solution
>> without tearing out everything in front of the panel is to watch
>> voltage build up and add load when it starts to peak. I plan to take
>> the plane out of service sometime during the winter months and redo
>> the wiring along with relocation of the voltage regulators. I will
>> also be reconfiguring the system to dual parallel batteries, single
>> buss, dual alternator system with only one alternator active at any
>> one time. I am retaining the dual batteries since I have the dual ecu
>> FLYEFII electronic ignition which are powered directly from each battery.
>>
>> I have learned my lesson though, if it might need adjustment it will
>> need adjustment and you better put it where you can adjust it.
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> N247BR Kis Cruiser
>>
>> PS: I can guarantee that you will end up with way more ground wires
>> than you ever imagined on the inside of the firewall. And each one
>> gets harder to connect to the forest of tabs ground bar if you try to
>> mount them all individually. Bob's book outlines a few alternatives,
>> use them!
>>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | "bearhawklife" <rob(at)robcaldwell.net> |
Kellym wrote:
> Ok, your EI does encourage a second power source, which could be 2nd
> battery or alternator. By mission, I am thinking more whether you would
> be doing back country flying where starting or replacement parts could
> be an issue, or more than occasional IFR where redundancy could be more
> critical. As Bob stresses, design requires thinking of all failure modes
> and what best mitigates the risk, based on mission. Not suggesting that
> you haven't already done that, just that it is a consideration in how to
> wire to keep simple with minimum possible failure points.
>
Yes, these considerations were discussed with Jason Smith at Aerotronics at the
time my panel was designed and built. Jason did a great job working through
all scenarios. His company also did a fantastic job building my panel (10" Skyview
HDX, Avidyne 540, 2 axis AP, panel mounted iPad, etc).
--------
Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491715#491715
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver Sold! |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Sold!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the Open Flight Solutions Flight Box that
I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane, but to
test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed) and
much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver sold |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver Sold! |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
Sold!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the Open Flight Solutions Flight Box that
I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane, but to
test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed) and
much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nearly new ADS-B in receiver sold |
| From: | Harley Dixon <harley(at)AgelessWings.com> |
I've purchased (and will be installing) a uAvionix Echo for my ADS-B
receiver and transmitter. So, the */Open Flight Solutions Flight Box/ *
that I have should find a happier home! I never used it in my plane,
but to test it, I did take it with me on a Southwest Airlines flight to
Arizona, and it performed flawlessly all the way using my Nexus 7 tablet
with Avare installed as the EFB.
The Flight Box will work not just with Avare, but just about any
EFB/navigation app available. See the list (they list 15 EFB apps
there, but invite you to let them know if you use one not listed). They
have much more info on their website here:
www.openflightsolutions.com/flightbox
FlightBox Plus: Dual-band ADS-B, Internal GPS, AHRS, Altimeter
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
Can someone PLEASE help me identify this starter solenoid and then I can get
a schematic of it?
There is not marking numbers on it that I can see without removing it from
the engine compartment (kind of a tight fit)..
I think it is a Wells 490F however I cannot determine it for sure.
I just had the engine out and all of the engine compartment wiring. It
worked before just fine.
It is installed it so that the left large post is connected to the master
switched power bus source and the right post is connected to the starter
motor.
With that being said, I connected the starter switch wire to the left small
post (the small post closest to the large powered post) and the starter
indicator light to the right small post (closest to the starter motor post)
and it did not start.
I then reversed the small wires so that the starter switch wire now goes to
the right small post (the one closest to the starter motor post) and the
indicator light is now connected to the left small post (the one closest to
the powered bus) and the starter and indicator light work as expected. So I
would normally be happy however it seems to be backwards from what I
expected.plus I do not know what direction to run my diode.
The questions now are:
-Is this the proper way to wire up this solenoid (I would have expected the
starter switch wire should be connected to the post that is closest to the
power supply and the indicator wire would be closest to the post that goes
to the starter motor)?
-What direction do I connect the diode (from the ground to the right small
post with the silver band pointed toward the right small post)?
Any help would be appreciated!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 10/9/2019 7:32 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
> Can someone PLEASE help me identify this starter solenoid and then I
> can get a schematic of it?
>
> There is not marking numbers on it that I can see without removing it
> from the engine compartment (kind of a tight fit)..
>
> I think it is a Wells 490F however I cannot determine it for sure.
>
> I just had the engine out and all of the engine compartment wiring.
> It worked before just fine.
>
> It is installed it so that the left large post is connected to the
> master switched power bus source and the right post is connected to
> the starter motor.
>
> With that being said, I connected the starter switch wire to the left
> small post (the small post closest to the large powered post) and the
> starter indicator light to the right small post (closest to the
> starter motor post) and it did not start
>
> I then reversed the small wires so that the starter switch wire now
> goes to the right small post (the one closest to the starter motor
> post) and the indicator light is now connected to the left small post
> (the one closest to the powered bus) and the starter and indicator
> light work as expected. So I would normally be happy however it seems
> to be backwards from what I expectedplus I do not know what direction
> to run my diode.
>
> The questions now are:
>
> -Is this the proper way to wire up this solenoid (I would have
> expected the starter switch wire should be connected to the post that
> is closest to the power supply and the indicator wire would be closest
> to the post that goes to the starter motor)?
>
> -What direction do I connect the diode (from the ground to the right
> small post with the silver band pointed toward the right small post)?
>
> Any help would be appreciated!!!
>
Easiest way to check for proper control terminal is to use an ohm meter.
Black to frame, red to each small terminal in turn. The terminal for the
light should show open circuit; the terminal for the switched B+
(control) should read some relatively low resistance, near zero ohms.
Here's a link to one of Bob's instructional pdfs, but unfortunately, it
doesn't show the switched (light) terminal. That terminal gets tied to
the two 'fat' terminals when the contactor is activated; it should be
'floating' (open circuit to all other terminals) when the contactor is
deactivated.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
Charlie
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
The banded end of arc suppression diodes always connects to positive.
For this contactor, connect the banded end to the small terminal that gets positive
voltage from the start switch. Connect the other end of the diode to ground.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491723#491723
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "GwaneTIme" <ronnialwine4896(at)yahoo.com> |
Congratulations,you doing an excellent work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491728#491728
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Congratulations |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
GwaneTIme is a spammer. Ignore his posted link.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491731#491731
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
Emacs!
If you examine the housing at the base of the
terminals, I think you will see a letter "I"
on the left one, and I forget what's usually
on the right one . . . an "S" perhaps?
In any case, the I terminal is used for your
'stuck starter' light (optional) and the
starter push button delivers power to the right
terminal. The diode (1N540X series) installs
as shown . . . with terminals of course . . . never
wrap wires around threaded posts in an airplane.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
THANK YOU very much Joe, Charlie, and Bob. Greatly appreciate the info!!!
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter
Solenoid???
The banded end of arc suppression diodes always connects to positive.
For this contactor, connect the banded end to the small terminal that gets
positive voltage from the start switch. Connect the other end of the diode
to ground.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491723#491723
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
Found them!!!
As in the picture Bob sent...the S and I letters are on the downward facing
boss under the terminals. I could not see them from above and I had to
remove some components and sneak up on them from underneath to be able to
read them...I could not even get my head wedged in there so I could see them
with my glasses on so I had to wedge my phone in there to make a picture (I
use this same picture taking technique to read menus at restaurants
nowadays).
Bob, it looks like that is the same solenoid that I have. Do you have a
manufacturer and part number for that unit?
The next important question I have is...on my installation the big post on
the left is the powered bus and the big post on the right is the post that
gets wired to the starter motor...Since the S post is on the right side that
would lead me to believe that the big post on the right should be the
powered bus...does it really matter what big post goes to what???
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com
On Behalf Of user9253
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:31 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter
Solenoid???
The banded end of arc suppression diodes always connects to positive.
For this contactor, connect the banded end to the small terminal that gets
positive voltage from the start switch. Connect the other end of the diode
to ground.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491723#491723
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
>
>The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near
>full charge without much draw down. In other words, kept on a
>maintainer full time. Odyssey has a letter on their support web page
>that describes drawing the battery down to 10V with a landing light
>or similar load. Then using Odyssey or similar programmed charger to
>fully recharge, to restore capacity.
Having trouble finding the document . . .
is this the one you're citing?
https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
One of the electronic fuel injection systems marketed to EAB delivers a harness
with fusible links inside a firewall passthru connector. I sketched what they
recommend and attached it here.
I see:
* The unprotected wire between the essential bus and the circuit breaker.
* The possibility of the wire between the breaker and the firewall connector opening
or shorting to ground taking out all four injectors.
But I'm wondering if the fusible links do anything at all. I don't know the awg
of the links but suppose they were 24 awg which has a fusing current of 29 A.
If an injector wire shorted to ground between the firewall connector and an individual
injector would the circuit breaker trip taking out all four injectors?
--------
John Bright, RV-6A 25088, at FWF
O-360, 8.5:1, vert sump, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Z-14 modified for EFI
Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491741#491741
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/erase_166.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
That document doesn't say anything about being "kept near full charge
without much draw down". It refers to batteries NOT being kept or recharged
full.
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 13:09 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
>
> kellym(at)aviating.com>
>
> The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near full
> charge without much draw down. In other words, kept on a maintainer full
> time. Odyssey has a letter on their support web page that describes drawing
> the battery down to 10V with a landing light or similar load. Then using
> Odyssey or similar programmed charger to fully recharge, to restore
> capacity.
>
>
> Having trouble finding the document . . .
> is this the one you're citing?
>
>
> https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
>
>The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near
>full charge without much draw down. In other words, kept on a
>maintainer full time. Odyssey has a letter on their support web page
>that describes drawing the battery down to 10V with a landing light
>or similar load. Then using Odyssey or similar programmed charger to
>fully recharge, to restore capacity.
Having trouble finding the document . . .
is this the one you're citing?
https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
> .does it really matter what big post goes to what?
The starter will work either way. However, the indicator light could remain on
if wired backwards, depending on the internal connections.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491745#491745
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Luckey <jluckey(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Picture of the inside of solenoid |
Bob,
Do you have some pictures of the insides of some start solenoids?=C2-
I know I've seen some but cannot remember where ;(
TIA
Jeff LuckeyKCMA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does Anyone Recognize This Starter Solenoid??? |
>Bob, it looks like that is the same solenoid that I have. Do you have a
>manufacturer and part number for that unit?
Go to an auto parts store and if it looks
like that one, it will work. That's
one of those exceedingly generic parts
by probably hundreds of manufacturers.
Here's one example that claims to be
"heavy duty" truck-rated. $8.50 delivered
to your door . . .
https://tinyurl.com/y3yzns5n
>The next important question I have is...on my installation the big post on
>the left is the powered bus and the big post on the right is the post that
>gets wired to the starter motor...Since the S post is on the right side that
>would lead me to believe that the big post on the right should be the
>powered bus...does it really matter what big post goes to what???
The 'fat" terminals are interchangeable.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
At 12:40 PM 10/10/2019, you wrote:
>
>
>One of the electronic fuel injection systems marketed to EAB
>delivers a harness with fusible links inside a firewall passthru
>connector. I sketched what they recommend and attached it here.
>
>I see:
>* The unprotected wire between the essential bus and the circuit breaker.
>* The possibility of the wire between the breaker and the firewall
>connector opening or shorting to ground taking out all four injectors.
>But I'm wondering if the fusible links do anything at all. I don't
>know the awg of the links but suppose they were 24 awg which has a
>fusing current of 29 A. If an injector wire shorted to ground
>between the firewall connector and an individual injector would the
>circuit breaker trip taking out all four injectors?
I would power each injector from its
own fuse off the battery bus. The
injectors are powered down any time
power is off the ECU . . . no need
to make battery power crew controlled.
The fusible links serve no purpose.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Yes that is the document for reconditioning. It does not discuss the
most common cause of decreased capacity. I didn't search for the
discussion, but recall quite a bit about folks on Vans Air Force
experiencing very short life, say under 2 yrs, with Odyssey batteries
from using maintainers that were not optimized for AGM batteries.
On 10/10/2019 9:59 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near full
>> charge without much draw down. In other words, kept on a maintainer
>> full time. Odyssey has a letter on their support web page that
>> describes drawing the battery down to 10V with a landing light or
>> similar load. Then using Odyssey or similar programmed charger to
>> fully recharge, to restore capacity.
>
> Having trouble finding the document . . .
> is this the one you're citing?
>
> https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Charge_Procedure.pdf
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Bob,
My plan is to fuse the injectors individually at the bus as you suggest. I'm using
two batteries and I have two battery buses with an injector bus connected
to both with diodes.
I do show the injector bus crew controlled from both battery buses because that
allows preflight checking whether the diodes are shorted or open. I show the
diodes in parallel pairs because they come two to a case and I don't know whether
or not there is a failure mode that could open both at the same time.
To explain what the injector relays are... they switch the injectors to the backup
ECU in case of primary ECU failure.
Schematic attached.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A 25088, at FWF
O-360, 8.5:1, vert sump, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Z-14 modified for EFI
Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491755#491755
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/erase_451.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
| From: | "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> |
Whenever fuses are connected in series, there is a chance that both could blow.
Consider increasing the 15 amp fuses to 20 or 30 amps.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491761#491761
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
| From: | "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> |
Schematic edited to delete fuses and relays between injector bus and battery buses.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A 25088, at FWF
O-360, 8.5:1, vert sump, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Z-14 modified for EFI
Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491769#491769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker |
At 08:25 PM 10/10/2019, you wrote:
>
>Whenever fuses are connected in series, there is a chance that both
>could blow. Consider increasing the 15 amp fuses to 20 or 30 amps.
>
>--------
>Joe Gores
better yet . . . one protective device
per feeder with that protection located
as close as practical to the source.
Fusible links are baby brothers to
'current limiters' . . .
Emacs!
These are for protection of power distribution
feeders and their stated ratings are exceedingly
conservative . . . they will generally continuous
carry several times their "nameplate" rating
as do fusible links.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf
Note spec sheet cited above says an ANL35
trip curve goes parallel to infinite trip-time at
about 95 amps! A 22AWG fusible link has a "nameplate"
rating on the order of 7A with a continuous
carry of more than 20A.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wire/22AWG_20A.pdf
They stand off hazards for hard faults against
upstream batteries. You will rarely
find these used on small aircraft but
they can be useful . . . like extending
the feeder from a fused bus to the
breaker in a crowbar ov protection
system. But they are NOT substitutes
for fuses. They do have good and useful
applications where the physics of the
risk so indicates.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batteries |
At 06:38 PM 10/10/2019, you wrote:
>
>Yes that is the document for reconditioning. It
>does not discuss the most common cause of
>decreased capacity. I didn't search for the
>discussion, but recall quite a bit about folks
>on Vans Air Force experiencing very short life,
>say under 2 yrs, with Odyssey batteries from
>using maintainers that were not optimized for AGM batteries.
Color me skeptical . . .
On one hand, svla batteries and 'pure lead'
products are marketed as the super-
robust direct replacement for flooded
cell batteries.
Quoting from their website:
Emacs!
They go to great lengths to promote
maintenance-free features of the
gas-recombinant chemistry. I don't know
what that 'overall power' quality is.
On the other hand, I observe no disclaimer
stating that "3 times the life" can only be achieved
by visiting this website where we read:
"BatteryMINDers=AE from VDC Electronics are guaranteed
to double or triple the life of most batteries
while improving their performance.
To suggest that a battery maintainer
should be "optimized" for AGM is
not supported by the numbers.
A pre-mature failure of a battery stored
on a maintainer calls for verification
the maintainer's ability to support
ANY battery.
I've owned dozens of SVLA batteries
of all sizes that were maintained on
generic Batter Minders/Battery Tenders
for YEARS with no appreciable loss of
capacity much less total failure.
I recall an Enersys admonition some
years back suggesting that their house
holy-watered maintainer should be used
to optimize service life of their
products. But like all medicine-show
promotions, they offered no numbers
or operational profiles explaining
how their maintainer differed from a
Battery Tender or a Schumacher product.
Nor did they offer any explanation of
the differential physics of AGM vs.
flooded that begged for special
treatment.
Battery failure is an inarguable fact . . .
but too often, deduction of cause-
effect-and-remedy are not supported
by the physics.
Suspicion is warranted when conflicting
philosophies are offered by factions
of the same industry. Good example:
There's a constellation of battery
'desulfation' devices on the market,
some are even patented. Still more
variants are described in popular DIY
literature. Each claims to apply
the 'magic' hammer that breaks up
lead-sulfate molecules thus restoring
teh battery's original function.
To date, I've seen no laboratory study
on the efficacy of any particular technique.
A few months ago, I purchased a Battery
Minder Plus . . .
https://tinyurl.com/y2gtxl7q
. . . fellow Lister Steve Stearns
sent me a soggy svla battery as
a test article for evaluating my
new purchase. I've been doing
short and long (5 mos) term testing
and will publish the results when
I get time . . . don't expect any
fireworks or joyous bell ringing.
In the mean time, if you've got a
battery maintainer of ANY stripe,
don't pitch it to buy some super-
whizzy battery maintenance product.
Measure the terminal voltage of your
'stored' battery after say, a week
or more on your existing maintainer.
If the voltage is 12.9 to 13.4 then
it's just fine . . . no matter what
kind of lead-acid battery you have.
I just checked Steve's test article
after 3+ months . . . it's 13.19
volts. I think the 'new and improved'
Battery Minder is probably an adequate
maintainer . . . but its restorative
qualities, if any, are yet to be
demonstrated.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/11/19 |
Been flying for 12+ years and on my third Odyssey PC680. First one was about fours
old on first flight. Second one still on my bench and serves as an airport
jumper. Only use Walmart Schumacher (sp?) charger on rare occasions. Love my
Odysseys.
Charlie Brame, RV-6A , N11CB, San Antonio
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 12, 2019, at 3:13 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server
wrote:
>
*
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HTML Version:
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Total Messages Posted Fri 10/11/19: 3
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:29 AM - Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker (johnbright)
2. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker (Robert L.
Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Odyssey Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker
From: "johnbright" <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com>
Schematic edited to delete fuses and relays between injector bus and battery buses.
--------
John Bright, RV-6A 25088, at FWF
O-360, 8.5:1, vert sump, dual SDSEFI EM-5-F
Z-14 modified for EFI
Newport News, Va
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491769#491769
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fusible link downstream of circuit breaker
At 08:25 PM 10/10/2019, you wrote:
>
> Whenever fuses are connected in series, there is a chance that both
> could blow. Consider increasing the 15 amp fuses to 20 or 30 amps.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
better yet . . . one protective device
per feeder with that protection located
as close as practical to the source.
Fusible links are baby brothers to
'current limiters' . . .
Emacs!
These are for protection of power distribution
feeders and their stated ratings are exceedingly
conservative . . . they will generally continuous
carry several times their "nameplate" rating
as do fusible links.
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf
Note spec sheet cited above says an ANL35
trip curve goes parallel to infinite trip-time at
about 95 amps! A 22AWG fusible link has a "nameplate"
rating on the order of 7A with a continuous
carry of more than 20A.
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wire/22AWG_20A.pdf
They stand off hazards for hard faults against
upstream batteries. You will rarely
find these used on small aircraft but
they can be useful . . . like extending
the feeder from a fused bus to the
breaker in a crowbar ov protection
system. But they are NOT substitutes
for fuses. They do have good and useful
applications where the physics of the
risk so indicates.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odyssey Batteries
At 06:38 PM 10/10/2019, you wrote:
>
> Yes that is the document for reconditioning. It
> does not discuss the most common cause of
> decreased capacity. I didn't search for the
> discussion, but recall quite a bit about folks
> on Vans Air Force experiencing very short life,
> say under 2 yrs, with Odyssey batteries from
> using maintainers that were not optimized for AGM batteries.
Color me skeptical . . .
On one hand, svla batteries and 'pure lead'
products are marketed as the super-
robust direct replacement for flooded
cell batteries.
Quoting from their website:
Emacs!
They go to great lengths to promote
maintenance-free features of the
gas-recombinant chemistry. I don't know
what that 'overall power' quality is.
On the other hand, I observe no disclaimer
stating that "3 times the life" can only be achieved
by visiting this website where we read:
"BatteryMINDers=AE from VDC Electronics are guaranteed
to double or triple the life of most batteries
while improving their performance.
To suggest that a battery maintainer
should be "optimized" for AGM is
not supported by the numbers.
A pre-mature failure of a battery stored
on a maintainer calls for verification
the maintainer's ability to support
ANY battery.
I've owned dozens of SVLA batteries
of all sizes that were maintained on
generic Batter Minders/Battery Tenders
for YEARS with no appreciable loss of
capacity much less total failure.
I recall an Enersys admonition some
years back suggesting that their house
holy-watered maintainer should be used
to optimize service life of their
products. But like all medicine-show
promotions, they offered no numbers
or operational profiles explaining
how their maintainer differed from a
Battery Tender or a Schumacher product.
Nor did they offer any explanation of
the differential physics of AGM vs.
flooded that begged for special
treatment.
Battery failure is an inarguable fact . . .
but too often, deduction of cause-
effect-and-remedy are not supported
by the physics.
Suspicion is warranted when conflicting
philosophies are offered by factions
of the same industry. Good example:
There's a constellation of battery
'desulfation' devices on the market,
some are even patented. Still more
variants are described in popular DIY
literature. Each claims to apply
the 'magic' hammer that breaks up
lead-sulfate molecules thus restoring
teh battery's original function.
To date, I've seen no laboratory study
on the efficacy of any particular technique.
A few months ago, I purchased a Battery
Minder Plus . . .
https://tinyurl.com/y2gtxl7q
. . . fellow Lister Steve Stearns
sent me a soggy svla battery as
a test article for evaluating my
new purchase. I've been doing
short and long (5 mos) term testing
and will publish the results when
I get time . . . don't expect any
fireworks or joyous bell ringing.
In the mean time, if you've got a
battery maintainer of ANY stripe,
don't pitch it to buy some super-
whizzy battery maintenance product.
Measure the terminal voltage of your
'stored' battery after say, a week
or more on your existing maintainer.
If the voltage is 12.9 to 13.4 then
it's just fine . . . no matter what
kind of lead-acid battery you have.
I just checked Steve's test article
after 3+ months . . . it's 13.19
volts. I think the 'new and improved'
Battery Minder is probably an adequate
maintainer . . . but its restorative
qualities, if any, are yet to be
demonstrated.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
So Bob, (congratulations, by the way),
the below captioned article seems to be relative to a sulfated battery in
an attempt to revitalize a battery that has been potentially abused.
In normal activity, with standard alternator/VR charging, is sulfation a pr
oblem since the starting energy is replaced shortly--=C2- unless there is
significant starting problems and the aircraft is usually tied down or han
gered with a relatively full charged battery.(of course if flown)?
If left untouched for relatively long periods of time since the discharge
rate is small, is it necessary to do anything?
Do the appropriate chargers protect against this sulfation if left on as a
trickle? also at what battery voltage=C2- level should external charging
be appropriate?
Rich
In a message dated 10/10/2019 1:22:24 PM Central Standard Time, nuckolls.bo
b(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
m>
The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near full charg
e without much draw down. In other words, kept on a maintainer full time. O
dyssey has a letter on their support web page that describes drawing the ba
ttery down to 10V with a landing light or similar load. Then using Odyssey
or similar programmed charger to fully recharge, to restore capacity.
=C2- Having trouble finding the document . . .
=C2- is this the one you're citing?
https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Ch
arge_Procedure.pdf
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators) |
In a message dated 10/10/2019 1:22:24 PM Central Standard Time, nuckolls.bo
b(at)aeroelectric.com writes:
At 03:32 PM 10/9/2019, you wrote:
m>
The biggest problem with Odyssey batteries is they are kept near full charg
e without much draw down. In other words, kept on a maintainer full time. O
dyssey has a letter on their support web page that describes drawing the ba
ttery down to 10V with a landing light or similar load. Then using Odyssey
or similar programmed charger to fully recharge, to restore capacity.
=C2- Having trouble finding the document . . .
=C2- is this the one you're citing?
https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEY_Battery_Reconditioning_Ch
arge_Procedure.pdf
=C2- Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
| From: | "MasterKang" <WilheminaSuazoTJF(at)yahoo.com> |
The controller refers to a master device that changes the wiring of the main circuit
or the control circuit in a predetermined order and changes the resistance
value in the circuit to control the starting, speeding, braking, and reversing
of the motor. It consists of a program counter, an instruction register, an
instruction decoder, a timing generator, and an operation controller. It is
the "decision-making body" that issues commands, that is, completes the coordination
and direct operation of the entire computer system.
Controller model (AD8311ACBZ-P7 (https://www.allicdata.com/product/rf-if-and-rfid/rf-power-controller-ics/ad8311acbz-p7/2721959.html))
--------
john wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491802#491802
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel transfer controller, revisited |
At 12:30 AM 10/14/2019, you wrote:
>
>
>The controller refers to a master device . . .
Not a registered member of this list.
Ignore as SPAM
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batteries |
At 07:13 PM 10/13/2019, you wrote:
>So Bob, (congratulations, by the way),
>
>the below captioned article seems to be relative to a sulfated battery
>in an attempt to revitalize a battery that has been potentially abused.
Yes, I asked the question about that article because
it was the only one I found on the Odyssey site
that spoke to battery maintenance. There was
an earlier posting that cited an article about
'premature failure' of Odyssey batteries allegedly
caused by poor storage. I was unable to find such
an article.
>If left untouched for relatively long periods of time since the
>discharge rate is small, is it necessary to do anything?
Generally no. However, 'long periods of time'
is not quantified . . . nor are the conditions
under which the aircraft is stored. I had a
pretty good wrestling match with the warehouse
managers at Hawker Beech who were not interested
in building battery storage racks with maintainers.
The hot, Dallas TX warehouses were killing brand
new, multi-killobuck batteries due to higher rates
of self discharge and self-destruction at high
temperature.
As to advertised self discharge rates we read:
https://tinyurl.com/y52e8zmx
Emacs!
This is a poorly worded assertion . . .
'which ever occurs first'? Does this paragraph
imply that a 12v condition MIGHT be experienced
in less that 2 years. The paragraph should
be edited or eliminated. It offers no
helpful information.
A battery that has self-discharged to 12.00
has zero capacity . . . it's not damaged and
will recover gracefully but it won't start
an engine. Further, an extended slow-decay
has to be sulfation unfriendly.
For our purposes, and airplane that's
flown say, once a month, would not benefit
from application of a charger-maintainer
to keep the ship in flight-ready condition.
The effects of longer storage and/or extreme
conditions will be mitigated 100% by use
of a true, battery charger-maintainer.
>Do the appropriate chargers protect against this sulfation if left
>on as a trickle?
This day and age there should be no such
critter as a 'trickle' charger. This is
an arcane term for a device that never
stops adding energy to a battery with some
notion of offsetting self discharge
conditions. A legacy trickle charger will
kill an SVLA battery.
Today we look for MAINTAINERS that automatically
drop from a top-off charging mode to a
maintenance mode. Maintenance is defined as
application of a fixed voltage to the battery
that is just above the open circuit terminal
voltage. This voltage is incapable of damaging
a battery because it does not charge the battery.
It only shoulders what ever self-discharge
currents exist inside the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/k6xr9mk
> also at what battery voltage level should external charging be appropriate?
No charging . . . MAINTAINING. 12.9 to 13.4
is fine . . . I have one maintainer that
supports at 13.6 . . . and that's okay too.
13.6 volts will not charge a battery.
I've used charger-maintainers by Battery
Minder, Battery Tender and Schumacher for
decades with most satisfactory performance.
As to 'sulfation', a Google search of
of the Odyssey battery site yields a
single mention, a remedy for which is
discussed in the article I queried
earlier.
https://tinyurl.com/yykpaf7n
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | argoldman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Batteries |
thanks Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 14, 2019 11:41 am
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Odyssey Batteries
At 07:13 PM 10/13/2019, you wrote:
So Bob, (congratulations, by theway),
the below captioned article seems to be relative to a sulfatedbattery
in an attempt to revitalize a battery that has been potentiallyabused.
=C2- Yes, I asked the question about that article because
=C2- it was the only one I found on the Odyssey site
=C2- that spoke to battery maintenance. There was
=C2- an earlier posting that cited an article about
=C2- 'premature failure' of Odyssey batteries allegedly
=C2- caused by poor storage. I was unable to find such
=C2- an article.
If left untouched for relativelylong periods of time since the discharge ra
te is small, is it necessaryto do anything?
=C2- Generally no. However, 'long periods of time'
=C2- is not quantified . . . nor are the conditions
=C2- under which the aircraft is stored. I had a
=C2- pretty good wrestling match with the warehouse
=C2- managers at Hawker Beech who were not interested
=C2- in building battery storage racks with maintainers.
=C2- The hot, Dallas TX warehouses were killing brand
=C2- new, multi-killobuck batteries due to higher rates
=C2- of self discharge and self-destruction at high
=C2- temperature.
=C2- As to advertised self discharge rates we read:
https://tinyurl.com/y52e8zmx
=C2-
=C2- This is a poorly worded assertion . . .
=C2- 'which ever occurs first'? Does this paragraph
=C2- imply that a 12v condition MIGHT be experienced
=C2- in less that 2 years. The paragraph should
=C2- be edited or eliminated. It offers no
=C2- helpful information.
=C2- A battery that has self-discharged to 12.00
=C2- has zero capacity . . . it's not damaged and
=C2- will recover gracefully but it won't start
=C2- an engine. Further, an extended slow-decay
=C2- has to be sulfation unfriendly.
=C2- For our purposes, and airplane that's
=C2- flown say, once a month, would not benefit
=C2- from application of a charger-maintainer
=C2- to keep the ship in flight-ready condition.
=C2- The effects of longer storage and/or extreme
=C2- conditions will be mitigated 100% by use
=C2- of a true, battery charger-maintainer.
Do the appropriate chargersprotect against this sulfation if left
on as a trickle?
=C2- This day and age there should be no such
=C2- critter as a 'trickle' charger. This is
=C2- an arcane term for a device that never
=C2- stops adding energy to a battery with some
=C2- notion of offsetting self discharge
=C2- conditions. A legacy trickle charger will
=C2- kill an SVLA battery.
=C2- Today we look for MAINTAINERS that automatically
=C2- drop from a top-off charging mode to a
=C2- maintenance mode. Maintenance is defined as
=C2- application of a fixed voltage to the battery
=C2- that is just above the open circuit terminal
=C2- voltage. This voltage is incapable of damaging
=C2- a battery because it does not charge the battery.
=C2- It only shoulders what ever self-discharge
=C2- currents exist inside the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/k6xr9mk
=C2-also at what batteryvoltage level should external charging be appropr
iate?
=C2- No charging . . . MAINTAINING. 12.9 to 13.4
=C2- is fine . . . I have one maintainer that
=C2- supports at 13.6 . . . and that's okay too.
=C2- 13.6 volts will not charge a battery.
=C2- I've used charger-maintainers by Battery
=C2- Minder, Battery Tender and Schumacher for
=C2- decades with most satisfactory performance.
=C2- As to 'sulfation', a Google search of
=C2- of the Odyssey battery site yields a
=C2- single mention, a remedy for which is
=C2- discussed in the article I queried
=C2- earlier.
https://tinyurl.com/yykpaf7n
=C2- Bob . . .
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Barnett <alansbarnett(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Wiring dsub connectors |
I'm replacing a Narco AT150 transponder with a Stratus ES.?? The wires
running to the Narco, which uses?? are 18 gauge wires and Molex
connectors.?? The Stratus specifies 22 gauge and dsub connectors, but I'm
sure bigger wire is OK.
The problem is crimping the wires.?? I bought a Daniels AFM8 crimping
tool five years ago when I installed a Garmin GNS 430.?? I have the
positioner for 22 gauge wire, but I've lost the positioner for the 18
gauge wire.?? My question is: should I crimp the dsub pins onto 22 gauge
wire and solder the wires to the 18 gauge wires, or spend $50 on a new
positioner (which one? it's hard to tell from the catlogs I've looked
at) so I can crimp the pins directly onto the 18 gauge wires?
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Diagrams and Pictures |
| From: | Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> |
just some random pics from my RV10 build of some years ago.
Fuse blocks and firewall ground
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=4043>
Dual Battery tray and wiring with ground
<http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=2155&log=43554&row=26>
On 10/9/2019 7:56 AM, bearhawklife wrote:
>
> This will my first post on the AeroElectric forum and so I hope my first question
won't get me banned for asking the proverbial "dumb question" on topic that
may have already been covered that I have yet to find...
>
> I have Bob's book and several others on aircraft wiring. All have been very
helpful and I have learned much.
>
> I am building a Bearhawk 4 Place powered by the IO-540. With the help of Nathan
over at B&C and Jason Smith at Aerotronics, I have chosen to go with a dual
alternator single battery set up. From Bob's book, I have selected to follow
the A12M diagram (attached) as a guide.
>
> Being that I am a visual person, I get the theory and written concepts, I just
need to "see it". For example, indicating on a schematic that the main battery
ground goes to the ground bus / electrical panel. Im not sure what that looks
like? Or the ground from the engine case to the airframe? Other connections
are difficult to imagine as well. I appreciate the routing and wire sizes
indicated in the drawings. Just curious if there is a resource for seeing the
actual connections.
>
> Nathan Bainbridge has suggested searching on www.vansairforce.net or just google RV-7 builders log for various builders pics. Which I have but still coming up short.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> --------
> Currently building a Bearhawk 4 Place.
>
--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Maintainer's for LiFePo batteries |
I'm still looking for a solar powered "maintainer" that will work with a L
iFePo battery, and would really like a pointer if someone has found a good
solution.=C2- I'm using the Scorpion battery to start my 120Hp Corvair.
=C2- I'm VERY happy with how fast and how long it will spin the Corvair w
hen it is charged, but I've been asking a lot from this battery due to carb
issues that I've been having to work through.=C2- Lots of cranking, with
out much engine running to recharge.
I bought one of the Harbor Freight, solar maintainers.=C2- I put it on an
d left it for a few days.=C2- The battery was completely dead when I came
back.=C2- The battery was swollen, but I can't be sure if that was from
an overcharge or from excessive exhaust heat.=C2- The solar panel says th
at it will put out as much as 18V...if I remember correctly...meaning the p
anel had the potential to exceed voltage that the battery is rated for.=C2
- Disassembly of the battery found that two of the "bags" were swollen mu
ch larger than the the others. I have since added heat deflectors, and repl
aced the battery.=C2- (A future investigation is to see if I can remove t
he swollen bags, and make a smaller capacity battery out of the remainder..
.to power LED lights in the gazebo in my backyard...not for airplane use.)
Getting a slow, battery-friendly charge to an airplane sitting on a ramp is
a PIA.=C2- Charging from a car, with it dumping whatever the alternator
will produce or whatever the battery will swallow, works, but is cringe-wor
thy.=C2- The 100mA output from the readily-available $20 panels takes a l
ong time, but WILL top a battery off eventually (18Ahr/100mA =>180hr @ 9h
r/day => 20 days).=C2- I find that acceptable, because my plane tends t
o sit idle on the ramp for long periods of time anyway.=C2- During that "
top off" time, the solar panels are fine on a LiFePo, because the voltage d
rops below the max whenever there is a significant load on it.=C2- It's t
hat period after the top off, when the panel reaches its open circuit volta
ge and exceeds what the battery can accept that potentially kills the batte
ry (again, I don't know this for a fact).
So, the question is, "Does anyone know of a solar battery maintainer design
ed to service LiFePo batteries?"
O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maintainer's for LiFePo batteries |
Can you make one, by using a 100w solar panel, a charge controller, and a
12v-powered liFe charging circuit?
On October 15, 2019 11:45:24 Ernest Christley wrote:
> I'm still looking for a solar powered "maintainer" that will work with a
> LiFePo battery, and would really like a pointer if someone has found a good
> solution. I'm using the Scorpion battery to start my 120Hp Corvair. I'm
> VERY happy with how fast and how long it will spin the Corvair when it is
> charged, but I've been asking a lot from this battery due to carb issues
> that I've been having to work through. Lots of cranking, without much
> engine running to recharge.
>
> I bought one of the Harbor Freight, solar maintainers. I put it on and
> left it for a few days. The battery was completely dead when I came back.
> The battery was swollen, but I can't be sure if that was from an overcharge
> or from excessive exhaust heat. The solar panel says that it will put out
> as much as 18V...if I remember correctly...meaning the panel had the
> potential to exceed voltage that the battery is rated for. Disassembly of
> the battery found that two of the "bags" were swollen much larger than the
> the others. I have since added heat deflectors, and replaced the battery.
> (A future investigation is to see if I can remove the swollen bags, and
> make a smaller capacity battery out of the remainder...to power LED lights
> in the gazebo in my backyard...not for airplane use.)
> Getting a slow, battery-friendly charge to an airplane sitting on a ramp is
> a PIA. Charging from a car, with it dumping whatever the alternator will
> produce or whatever the battery will swallow, works, but is cringe-worthy.
> The 100mA output from the readily-available $20 panels takes a long time,
> but WILL top a battery off eventually (18Ahr/100mA =>180hr @ 9hr/day => 20
> days). I find that acceptable, because my plane tends to sit idle on the
> ramp for long periods of time anyway. During that "top off" time, the
> solar panels are fine on a LiFePo, because the voltage drops below the max
> whenever there is a significant load on it. It's that period after the top
> off, when the panel reaches its open circuit voltage and exceeds what the
> battery can accept that potentially kills the battery (again, I don't know
> this for a fact).
> So, the question is, "Does anyone know of a solar battery maintainer
> designed to service LiFePo batteries?"
>
> O
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maintainer's for LiFePo batteries |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
That's the general path I'd consider. Perhaps a perusal of hobby sites
for a LiFePo charger that operates from a car battery would be a good
place to start. Failing that, a small 12V-120vac inverter might get you
there in somewhat plug&play fashion, though it would be a lot of monkey
motion and not very efficient.
solar panel>charge controller>inverter>charger
Or.....
https://www.amazon.com/DPJ-LiFePO4-Battery-Controller-SL03-4810A/dp/B07JG2V7TB/ref=asc_df_B07JG2V7TB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78287727493&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024
generally,
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&biw=1920&bih=975&sxsrf=ACYBGNSHIvwnyBkyd9OPRuYg3iDFSaANlA%3A1571157455562&ei=z_WlXYLHIZHQtAWcwrX4Bg&q=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery&oq=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i30.199155.213105..214599...0.2..1.443.10450.1j16j19j9j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i22i30j35i304i39j0i8i13i30.YH6jrcsDRBs
Charlie
On 10/15/2019 11:08 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
>
> Can you make one, by using a 100w solar panel, a charge controller,
> and a 12v-powered liFe charging circuit?
>
> On October 15, 2019 11:45:24 Ernest Christley wrote:
>
>> I'm still looking for a solar powered "maintainer" that will work
>> with a LiFePo battery, and would really like a pointer if someone has
>> found a good solution. I'm using the Scorpion battery to start my
>> 120Hp Corvair. I'm VERY happy with how fast and how long it will
>> spin the Corvair when it is charged, but I've been asking a lot from
>> this battery due to carb issues that I've been having to work
>> through. Lots of cranking, without much engine running to recharge.
>>
>> I bought one of the Harbor Freight, solar maintainers. I put it on
>> and left it for a few days. The battery was completely dead when I
>> came back. The battery was swollen, but I can't be sure if that was
>> from an overcharge or from excessive exhaust heat. The solar panel
>> says that it will put out as much as 18V...if I remember
>> correctly...meaning the panel had the potential to exceed voltage
>> that the battery is rated for. Disassembly of the battery found that
>> two of the "bags" were swollen much larger than the the others. I
>> have since added heat deflectors, and replaced the battery. (A
>> future investigation is to see if I can remove the swollen bags, and
>> make a smaller capacity battery out of the remainder...to power LED
>> lights in the gazebo in my backyard...not for airplane use.)
>>
>> Getting a slow, battery-friendly charge to an airplane sitting on a
>> ramp is a PIA. Charging from a car, with it dumping whatever the
>> alternator will produce or whatever the battery will swallow, works,
>> but is cringe-worthy. The 100mA output from the readily-available $20
>> panels takes a long time, but WILL top a battery off eventually
>> (18Ahr/100mA =>180hr @ 9hr/day => 20 days). I find that acceptable,
>> because my plane tends to sit idle on the ramp for long periods of
>> time anyway. During that "top off" time, the solar panels are fine
>> on a LiFePo, because the voltage drops below the max whenever there
>> is a significant load on it. It's that period after the top off, when
>> the panel reaches its open circuit voltage and exceeds what the
>> battery can accept that potentially kills the battery (again, I don't
>> know this for a fact).
>>
>> So, the question is, "Does anyone know of a solar battery maintainer
>> designed to service LiFePo batteries?"
>>
>>
>> O
--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maintainer's for LiFePo batteries |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
oops; ignore the Amazon link. Just saw in the details that it only works
at higher voltages.
On 10/15/2019 11:43 AM, Charlie England wrote:
> That's the general path I'd consider. Perhaps a perusal of hobby sites
> for a LiFePo charger that operates from a car battery would be a good
> place to start. Failing that, a small 12V-120vac inverter might get
> you there in somewhat plug&play fashion, though it would be a lot of
> monkey motion and not very efficient.
> solar panel>charge controller>inverter>charger
>
> Or.....
> https://www.amazon.com/DPJ-LiFePO4-Battery-Controller-SL03-4810A/dp/B07JG2V7TB/ref=asc_df_B07JG2V7TB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78287727493&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024
> generally,
> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&biw=1920&bih=975&sxsrf=ACYBGNSHIvwnyBkyd9OPRuYg3iDFSaANlA%3A1571157455562&ei=z_WlXYLHIZHQtAWcwrX4Bg&q=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery&oq=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i30.199155.213105..214599...0.2..1.443.10450.1j16j19j9j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i22i30j35i304i39j0i8i13i30.YH6jrcsDRBs
>
>
> Charlie
>
> On 10/15/2019 11:08 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
>>
>> Can you make one, by using a 100w solar panel, a charge controller,
>> and a 12v-powered liFe charging circuit?
>>
>> On October 15, 2019 11:45:24 Ernest Christley wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still looking for a solar powered "maintainer" that will work
>>> with a LiFePo battery, and would really like a pointer if someone
>>> has found a good solution. I'm using the Scorpion battery to start
>>> my 120Hp Corvair. I'm VERY happy with how fast and how long it will
>>> spin the Corvair when it is charged, but I've been asking a lot from
>>> this battery due to carb issues that I've been having to work
>>> through. Lots of cranking, without much engine running to recharge.
>>>
>>> I bought one of the Harbor Freight, solar maintainers. I put it on
>>> and left it for a few days. The battery was completely dead when I
>>> came back. The battery was swollen, but I can't be sure if that was
>>> from an overcharge or from excessive exhaust heat. The solar panel
>>> says that it will put out as much as 18V...if I remember
>>> correctly...meaning the panel had the potential to exceed voltage
>>> that the battery is rated for. Disassembly of the battery found that
>>> two of the "bags" were swollen much larger than the the others. I
>>> have since added heat deflectors, and replaced the battery. (A
>>> future investigation is to see if I can remove the swollen bags, and
>>> make a smaller capacity battery out of the remainder...to power LED
>>> lights in the gazebo in my backyard...not for airplane use.)
>>>
>>> Getting a slow, battery-friendly charge to an airplane sitting on a
>>> ramp is a PIA. Charging from a car, with it dumping whatever the
>>> alternator will produce or whatever the battery will swallow, works,
>>> but is cringe-worthy. The 100mA output from the readily-available
>>> $20 panels takes a long time, but WILL top a battery off eventually
>>> (18Ahr/100mA =>180hr @ 9hr/day => 20 days). I find that acceptable,
>>> because my plane tends to sit idle on the ramp for long periods of
>>> time anyway. During that "top off" time, the solar panels are fine
>>> on a LiFePo, because the voltage drops below the max whenever there
>>> is a significant load on it. It's that period after the top off,
>>> when the panel reaches its open circuit voltage and exceeds what the
>>> battery can accept that potentially kills the battery (again, I
>>> don't know this for a fact).
>>>
>>> So, the question is, "Does anyone know of a solar battery maintainer
>>> designed to service LiFePo batteries?"
>>>
>>>
>>> O
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maintainer's for LiFePo batteries |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Perhaps this one?
https://www.amazon.com/PowMr-Controller-Intelligent-Temperature-Compensation/dp/B07H86ZP6C/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?keywords=12v+lefepo4+solar+charge+controller&qid=1571158107&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExM1BEU1BWMzVQMVVNJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODkxMjUxMVM0VjVWTEFPVjA1UCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTU1MDAwQ1k3N0dDTTBIQ0gxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ=
On 10/15/2019 11:44 AM, Charlie England wrote:
> oops; ignore the Amazon link. Just saw in the details that it only
> works at higher voltages.
>
> On 10/15/2019 11:43 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>> That's the general path I'd consider. Perhaps a perusal of hobby
>> sites for a LiFePo charger that operates from a car battery would be
>> a good place to start. Failing that, a small 12V-120vac inverter
>> might get you there in somewhat plug&play fashion, though it would be
>> a lot of monkey motion and not very efficient.
>> solar panel>charge controller>inverter>charger
>>
>> Or.....
>> https://www.amazon.com/DPJ-LiFePO4-Battery-Controller-SL03-4810A/dp/B07JG2V7TB/ref=asc_df_B07JG2V7TB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78287727493&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385172604940&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16702995601745525769&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014228&hvtargid=pla-823507823024
>> generally,
>> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&biw=1920&bih=975&sxsrf=ACYBGNSHIvwnyBkyd9OPRuYg3iDFSaANlA%3A1571157455562&ei=z_WlXYLHIZHQtAWcwrX4Bg&q=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery&oq=solar+charge+controller+for+lifepo4+battery+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i30.199155.213105..214599...0.2..1.443.10450.1j16j19j9j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i22i30j35i304i39j0i8i13i30.YH6jrcsDRBs
>>
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> On 10/15/2019 11:08 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you make one, by using a 100w solar panel, a charge controller,
>>> and a 12v-powered liFe charging circuit?
>>>
>>> On October 15, 2019 11:45:24 Ernest Christley
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still looking for a solar powered "maintainer" that will work
>>>> with a LiFePo battery, and would really like a pointer if someone
>>>> has found a good solution. I'm using the Scorpion battery to start
>>>> my 120Hp Corvair. I'm VERY happy with how fast and how long it
>>>> will spin the Corvair when it is charged, but I've been asking a
>>>> lot from this battery due to carb issues that I've been having to
>>>> work through. Lots of cranking, without much engine running to
>>>> recharge.
>>>>
>>>> I bought one of the Harbor Freight, solar maintainers. I put it on
>>>> and left it for a few days. The battery was completely dead when I
>>>> came back. The battery was swollen, but I can't be sure if that
>>>> was from an overcharge or from excessive exhaust heat. The solar
>>>> panel says that it will put out as much as 18V...if I remember
>>>> correctly...meaning the panel had the potential to exceed voltage
>>>> that the battery is rated for. Disassembly of the battery found
>>>> that two of the "bags" were swollen much larger than the the
>>>> others. I have since added heat deflectors, and replaced the
>>>> battery. (A future investigation is to see if I can remove the
>>>> swollen bags, and make a smaller capacity battery out of the
>>>> remainder...to power LED lights in the gazebo in my backyard...not
>>>> for airplane use.)
>>>>
>>>> Getting a slow, battery-friendly charge to an airplane sitting on a
>>>> ramp is a PIA. Charging from a car, with it dumping whatever the
>>>> alternator will produce or whatever the battery will swallow,
>>>> works, but is cringe-worthy. The 100mA output from the
>>>> readily-available $20 panels takes a long time, but WILL top a
>>>> battery off eventually (18Ahr/100mA =>180hr @ 9hr/day => 20 days).
>>>> I find that acceptable, because my plane tends to sit idle on the
>>>> ramp for long periods of time anyway. During that "top off" time,
>>>> the solar panels are fine on a LiFePo, because the voltage drops
>>>> below the max whenever there is a significant load on it. It's
>>>> that period after the top off, when the panel reaches its open
>>>> circuit voltage and exceeds what the battery can accept that
September 03, 2019 - October 15, 2019
AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-pc