Commander-Archive.digest.vol-aq
September 12, 2002 - October 23, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ENGINE OUT, answers and comments |
A few questions have been presented concerning my engine out on takeoff.
Here are the answers and a couple of comments.
1. I was able to feather the engine. Keep in mind that it was night and I
did not look at the prop very much, however it seemed to slow down
drastically almost immediately, however for a quite a few additional seconds
it turned VERY slowly until it quit turning altogether.
2. Since this happened on take off the environmental system was off. This
has always been my procedure. Going to flight auto at the same the boost
pumps are shut off seems to be a pretty good practice. Flying mostly in the
Southwest part of the US generally means that low level cabin heat is not
needed, as for cooling in hot weather, I much prefer perspiration from heat
rather than nervousness.
3. Good point, Wing Commander Gordon, about closing the cowl flaps on flat
nacelle models. The cowl flaps were closed on the dead engine shortly after
it was feathered, the electric fuel pump was shut off, and the fuel selector
was set to off.
4. There was the ability to climb slowly. Regrettably, I can not tell you the
rate of climb. Keeping HHR in sight at night, maintaining blue line,
shutting the right stuff off, and talking to the tower kept my mind pretty
well occupied. With the plane cleaned up as much as possible, max power on
the # 1 engine, and maintaining blue line I had little choice about the climb
rate or altitude.
5. I did fail to break the wire on the overhead toggle switch cover and shut
the fuel and skydrol supply off on the dead engine. Since there was no fluid
leakage involved, this was of no consequence, however, had there been a
broken line, this could have been a serious error...
The term "brand P" has been used in some of the messages. Does this refer to
pressurized Commanders or 'Stars, or both?
What type of service life can reasonably be expected from the New York
Airbrake hydraulic pumps, and the Simmonds Fuel Injection pumps.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OUT, answers and comments |
In a message dated 09/12/02 08:17:50 Pacific Daylight Time, MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
writes:
> 4. There was the ability to climb slowly. Regrettably, I can not tell you
> the rate of climb. Keeping HHR in sight at night, maintaining blue line,
> shutting the right stuff off, and talking to the tower kept my mind pretty
> well occupied. With the plane cleaned up as much as possible, max power on
> the # 1 engine, and maintaining blue line I had little choice about the
> climb rate or altitude.
As Ed McMahon would have said, "You are correct, Sir." You prioritized well
and that's why you're writing about it, instead of us writing about you!
>
> 5. I did fail to break the wire on the overhead toggle switch cover and
> shut the fuel and skydrol supply off on the dead engine. Since there was
> no fluid leakage involved, this was of no consequence, however, had there
> been a broken line, this could have been a serious error...
True -- if this happened en route. In the pattern at night -- as you stated
above -- a nice landing is a better focus.
>
> The term "brand P" has been used in some of the messages. Does this refer
> to pressurized Commanders or 'Stars, or both?
Oh, that's from my Aero Star demo pilot days. I used to have to sell against
Beech, Cessna and Piper products, (this was before Piper bought the Ted Smith
Aero Star) and my job was to compare the different brands.
>
> What type of service life can reasonably be expected from the New York
> Airbrake hydraulic pumps, and the Simmonds Fuel Injection pumps.
That is the $6400 question. My last involvement with the hydraulic pumps was
4 years ago during an initial on a 680-V. The owner went through 3 of them
before he gave up and bought a 690A.
The pumps were being installed as "field modified" by the A&P (and A.I.) by
replacing a spring on lower output designs and increasing the pressure to
3000 psi. Obviously, his idea was not valid as they failed in a handful of
hours.
As usual, Morris Kernick would be the man to speak to about these pumps.
Simmonds usually last a long time -- IF you keep the fine mesh screen at the
pump impellers clean. These has to be ultrasonically cleaned OFTEN and are
not hard to get to.
But as far as time-in-service for the pumps (fuel and hydraulic), I have no
statistics.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF |
In a message dated 9/11/02 8:46:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> To all with flat nacelles: Don't forget cowl flaps on your clean-up.
> Unless you're in a Mr. RPM conversion that eliminates cowl flaps, you have
> tons of drag from those "spoilers," and I've found them to be all but
> ingnored during one engine inoperative practice.
GREAT POINT WCG..In the Duke, the S/E climb rate nearly doubled (350 to
600fpm) with the cowl flaps closed. We all made every TO with them closed
and opened the on climb only as needed. It also improved the all engine
climb. I wonder if some on in the group needs to do some practice with their
airplane and see just how much difference this makes?? Maybe we should all
be departing with the cowl flaps closes?? Any volunteers?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sneed, Glen <Glen.Sneed(at)qwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OUT, answers and comments |
Moe,
When the dust settles, this would make a good "There I Was ..." article for
Chris' website. I look forward to the whole story.
Unfortunately, you still need 2 more night takeoffs and landings.
Glenn Sneed
-----Original Message-----
From: MOEMILLS(at)aol.com [mailto:MOEMILLS(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:02 AM
To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Subject: ENGINE OUT, answers and comments
A few questions have been presented concerning my engine out on takeoff.
Here are the answers and a couple of comments.
1. I was able to feather the engine. Keep in mind that it was night and I
did not look at the prop very much, however it seemed to slow down
drastically almost immediately, however for a quite a few additional seconds
it turned VERY slowly until it quit turning altogether.
2. Since this happened on take off the environmental system was off. This
has always been my procedure. Going to flight auto at the same the boost
pumps are shut off seems to be a pretty good practice. Flying mostly in the
Southwest part of the US generally means that low level cabin heat is not
needed, as for cooling in hot weather, I much prefer perspiration from heat
rather than nervousness.
3. Good point, Wing Commander Gordon, about closing the cowl flaps on flat
nacelle models. The cowl flaps were closed on the dead engine shortly after
it was feathered, the electric fuel pump was shut off, and the fuel selector
was set to off.
4. There was the ability to climb slowly. Regrettably, I can not tell you
the rate of climb. Keeping HHR in sight at night, maintaining blue line,
shutting the right stuff off, and talking to the tower kept my mind pretty
well occupied. With the plane cleaned up as much as possible, max power on
the # 1 engine, and maintaining blue line I had little choice about the
climb rate or altitude.
5. I did fail to break the wire on the overhead toggle switch cover and shut
the fuel and skydrol supply off on the dead engine. Since there was no
fluid leakage involved, this was of no consequence, however, had there been
a broken line, this could have been a serious error...
The term "brand P" has been used in some of the messages. Does this refer
to pressurized Commanders or 'Stars, or both?
What type of service life can reasonably be expected from the New York
Airbrake hydraulic pumps, and the Simmonds Fuel Injection pumps.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer, AIA <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF |
Great discussion about single engine performance and technique...good food for
thought. I'll be keeping it all in mind as I depart SBP for Lake Tahoe this afternoon.
Really appreciate the wealth of knowledge that comes from this group...thanks.
(and...wish I could be making it to SCE for the gathering of Commanders...darn)
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF
In a message dated 9/11/02 8:46:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CloudCraft(at)aol.com
writes:
To all with flat nacelles: Don't forget cowl flaps on your clean-up. Unless
you're in a Mr. RPM conversion that eliminates cowl flaps, you have tons of
drag from those "spoilers," and I've found them to be all but ingnored during
one engine inoperative practice.
GREAT POINT WCG..In the Duke, the S/E climb rate nearly doubled (350 to 600fpm)
with the cowl flaps closed. We all made every TO with them closed and opened
the on climb only as needed. It also improved the all engine climb. I wonder
if some on in the group needs to do some practice with their airplane and
see just how much difference this makes?? Maybe we should all be departing with
the cowl flaps closes?? Any volunteers?? jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com> |
I have experimented a little bit with various settings for cowl flaps on take
off. Given the sometimes inaccuracy of the Simmonds pumps, it seems that
opening the cowl flaps, to where the small indicator holes show, works well
if the ambient temperature is at 75' F or below. Above 75' it hard to keep
the head temp. below 475' or so, unless I open the cowl flaps to full open,
or use a shallow climb. Shallow climbs are not usually a good option in many
places because of noise sensitive areas and the desire to "get some altitude"
in case of a problem. I have not ever experimented with cowl flap settings
below about 60'.
Glenn, thanks for reminding me that two more night landings are needed.
Guess we will have to leave for the Reno Air Races early this afternoon to
avoid a night landing.
Regards to all,
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.
Just found out that Duane hicks, from St. Thomas Canada will be attending as
will Jimmy Rodriguez from San Juan, PR. The numbers are growing!!
The evening "sit down" dinner menu is Beef Tenderloin and Sauteed
Chicken with pepper and lemon sauce, Twice baked potato casserole, broccoli,
glazed carrots, string beans, bread, salad and a full desert bar. All severd
on white tabl cloths under the wing of a Commander! Ummmm, Ummmmm . jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: more attendees |
HI KIDS.
Just found out that Duane hicks, from St. Thomas Canada will be attending as will
Jimmy Rodriguez from San Juan, PR. The numbers are growing!!
The evening "sit down" dinner menu is Beef Tenderloin and Sauteed Chicken
with pepper and lemon sauce, Twice baked potato casserole, broccoli, glazed
carrots, string beans, bread, salad and a full desert bar. All severd on white
tabl cloths under the wing of a Commander! Ummmm, Ummmmm . jb
BROCCOLI !!!!! ;>(
bilbo
(good republican)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more attendees |
Bow wrote:
> BROCCOLI !!!!! ;>(
>
> bilbo
> (good republican)
Guess that explains why you work where you do - none of them pesky
vege-colors to deal with! :-)
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lowell Girod <dongirod(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF |
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: dongirod(at)earthlink.net
Cc: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com; commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: 9/12/02 2:46:16 AM
Subject: ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF
Nico
I knew that! (symmetrical vs. asymmetrical) guess I had the brain in 'Park'.
Thanks for reminding me. And I wasn't nit-picking your answer.
I feel very fortunate, in about 20K I have never lost an engine. Used to
get lots of practice in simulators though. I know on a DC-9, 757, or A-300 a
Vr engine cut was kick in full rudder, then back off about 1 degree and keep
the wings level and trim like crazy, and you could maintain about 500 fpm climb
until you started to get it cleaned up. And it took the 5 mins. of engine manufacturer
guarantee at T.O. power to get cleaned up and at 1500 ft. AGL. Once
that happened in a stable flight pattern is was simple as long as you kept
the A/C in trim. I would like to try that in the Commander but am leery of the
geared engine and doing harm. How much power do you pull on the 'dead engine'
if you practice and feel you are not harming the engine and gear box? I have
very little experience in props, although I do have a DC-3 rating about a million
years ago (my only tail dragger). And I do enjoy the forum, feel like
its 'ground school ' every few days.
Don
Hi Don,
My intention was to focus on what was the best-practice maneuver, turning
into the dead engine or the live one. I was speaking about an equilibrium-turn,
which means that the aircraft experiences zero acceleration, regardless of
skidding or the ball and needle off center. When I spoke about a coordinated turn,
I was trying to explain that under normal circumstances, with both engines
running, the pilot has to apply opposite aileron and rudder to maintain a coordinated
turn. That high-lighted the forces that act opposite to the tendency
of the live engine to roll the plane in the opposite direction. The same force
will assist (not counter) the rolling tendency of the live engine if a turn
is made into the dead engine. You are not missing something, I just wasn't on
the same page with you but rather spoke about another part of the engine-out problem.
Just as a matter of interest, asymmetrical thrust is with one engine out.
Symmetrical thrust is with both engines running, so there is no such a thing
as non-asymmetrical thrust. :-)
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more attendees |
BROCOLLI ??!!!?? ;>)
Served on white table cloths?? No plates in S.C. then ???!!!???
Don't forget - Kodak share prices zoom up at this time of year - it's all the film
I buy. Just thought I'd put you in the picture :>))
All attendees:
Please make sure your aircraft,
is clean
props are parked neatly
control surfaces are flush with fixed surfaces
We do not want photographs of untidy Commanders in THE BOOK!
See y'all in a couple of weeks,
Barry C
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: Capt Jimbob ; COMMANDERCHAT2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: more attendees
HI KIDS.
Just found out that Duane hicks, from St. Thomas Canada will be attending as
will Jimmy Rodriguez from San Juan, PR. The numbers are growing!!
The evening "sit down" dinner menu is Beef Tenderloin and Sauteed Chicken
with pepper and lemon sauce, Twice baked potato casserole, broccoli, glazed
carrots, string beans, bread, salad and a full desert bar. All severd on white
tabl cloths under the wing of a Commander! Ummmm, Ummmmm . jb
BROCCOLI !!!!! ;>(
bilbo
(good republican)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | ENGINE OUT ON TAKE OFF |
In a message dated 9/12/02 5:17:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
keyscrusing(at)earthlink.net writes:
> A word of caution to anyone flying into CAE. The FSDO office is on the field
> right by the FBO. These guys are a real group of roaring A@@ Holes. They
> have a very bad reputation even among other FSDO offices. Make sure
> everyone's paperwork is in order before they arrive. It would not surprise
> me one bit to see a ramp check of the aircraft and crews! As a matter of a
> fact, I would be very surprised if everyone was not checked!! I can not
> stress how strongly I feel on this subject!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 09/12/02 09:18:34 Pacific Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
> Maybe we should all be departing with the cowl flaps closes??
Moe is onto a good technique. Half cowl flaps should be adequate for most
ops, if your climb requirement / technique / cylinder head temps allow for
it.
I use the hole in the side of the cowl flap as a guide, as well.
Also, when I'd be in a Commander I hadn't been in yet, I'd time the cowl flap
retraction. Average was 8 seconds from full open to closed, thus, at night,
a count to 4 would give me half cowl flaps, just before taking the active
runway.
Of course, I'd time them with the engines off (no, silly, not in flight), so
I could hear them and also find out if one was slower than the other.
Credit goes to Dick MacCoon; he was the one who put me on to how much drag
the cowl flaps make. Years ago, he told me about films they shot of a tufted
Commander in flight with cowl flaps open. Said it was unbelievable. That
made an impression upon me (because I was young and impressionable back
then).
Damn! I wish I could make the fly-in. So much great information to be
gained from this group and so many great Commander & their pet owners from
afar.
Capt. JimBob, I thank you for pulling this event together, maybe especially
since I can't get there.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> Credit goes to Dick MacCoon; he was the one who put me on to how much
> drag the cowl flaps make. Years ago, he told me about films they shot
> of a tufted Commander in flight with cowl flaps open. Said it was
> unbelievable.
Before last years trip to HIO in Milt's 685, I really hadn't spent any
"quality time" in a flat-nacelle Commander. I was just amazed at the
effects of the cowl flaps. They litterally made the diference between
climbing and not when departing a high DENALT field at max gross.
I'd love to see the films you mentioned. I could REALLY feel the air-
flow disturbance rumble with the flaps open. You wouldn't think they'd
disturb enough airflow to make as much difference as they do...
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Short question, folks: Would cowl flaps that are located on the underside of
the engine nacelles have less effect on performance than flaps that are on
top of the nacelle? The issue being that the flaps on the underside have
only a drag effect while the ones on top of the nacelles also remove a
portion of the wing-lift.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: Cowl Flaps
> CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Credit goes to Dick MacCoon; he was the one who put me on to how much
> > drag the cowl flaps make. Years ago, he told me about films they shot
> > of a tufted Commander in flight with cowl flaps open. Said it was
> > unbelievable.
>
>
> Before last years trip to HIO in Milt's 685, I really hadn't spent any
> "quality time" in a flat-nacelle Commander. I was just amazed at the
> effects of the cowl flaps. They litterally made the diference between
> climbing and not when departing a high DENALT field at max gross.
> I'd love to see the films you mentioned. I could REALLY feel the air-
> flow disturbance rumble with the flaps open. You wouldn't think they'd
> disturb enough airflow to make as much difference as they do...
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/13/02 8:00:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Short question, folks: Would cowl flaps that are located on the underside of
> the engine nacelles have less effect on performance than flaps that are on
> top of the nacelle? The issue being that the flaps on the underside have
> only a drag effect while the ones on top of the nacelles also remove a
> portion of the wing-lift.
> Nico
HI NICO.
They would probably have less effect there, although the Duke
had them on the bottom and as I had pointed out, they had a terrible effect.
The Flat Commanders all have "updraft" cooling, taking the cooling air in and
routing it up, to exit over the top if the wing. Cowl flap on the bottom
would be ineffective. Good thought though.
PS All of us "Barhtub Boys" donr worry much about all this :-) jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Bow wrote:
> BROCCOLI !!!!! ;>(
>
> bilbo
> (good republican)
Guess that explains why you work where you do - none of them pesky
vege-colors to deal with! :-)
chris
Yeah,,,,,,,even his uniform is brown.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.
I just found out that Hugh Evens, Merlin Products of Spokane,
WA, is planing to be at the flyin with TCFG member Larry Wokral's gorgeous
500B with Brand new (still in experimental category) TIO 540, 320hp, single
turbo, wide deck (high TBO) engines. They plan for 205 -210kts @ 14K This
is a really special airplane and we get to see it first!! Merlin is selling
STC kits for the 500 As & Bs. dont miss it!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <thall5(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | A good day flying |
Hay from Kansas,
Was Friday the 13 a good day for y'all?
Last year there was a lot of chat on this list about not getting a multi
engine rating in a Twin Commander, but rather go out and tear up someone's
else's twin.
I got to bash around for 10 hours in a Piper PA23-160. I went twice for the
check ride and both times the plane broke. Third times is a charm they say,
and today I passed my multi/instrument check ride.
Today was a good day. It was a little cooler and the Apache ran well and
even started when asked. It even started over the airport at 4500' when we
shut down the right engine.
Looking forward to the fly in. Anyone going by Kansas City on the way?
Tylor Hall
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Friday the 13th. |
>Hay from Kansas,
>Was Friday the 13 a good day for y'all?
Nope, my 4 year old fell down 14 steps tangled up in her jump rope and broke
her collar bone just after lunch. But Congrats to you anyway!!
>Looking forward to the fly in. Anyone going by Kansas City on the way?
Since you did not say "Delta" just buy a round trip ticket on Airtran to ATL
and I will get you to CAE and back to ATL!! Hell who knows, since you just
got your ticket maybe Cliff and I will sit in the back and drink No-Name
while you flyl!!
JetPaul
1952 520 with 1 empty seat. (that's you dude.)
All prices are plus tax, tag and title. Options may vary. Some options not
available on all airplanes. Dealer will retain all rebates. Airport
transfer fees will be based on how many times you say "Delta." In the south
we say the letter "D" phonetically as DIXIE!!!!!! Hotel accomodations are up
to you. Be nice to the igauna, or J.B. will throw you out after about 2
hours. Smile when the dude they reffer to as "Sir" points a camera at you.
etc, etc, etc,etc.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A good day flying |
In a message dated 09/13/02 17:24:03 Pacific Daylight Time, thall5(at)kc.rr.com
writes:
> Third times is a charm they say, and today I passed my multi/instrument
> check ride.
You took a checkride on Friday the 13th? You're gnarly, dude!
Congratulations!
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Friday the 13th. |
I just looked up Air Tran's web site. They do not start flying to Kansas
City until Oct 8 with their new 717's.
That would mean that I would have to fly on D____ to ATL. (notice I did not
use the D word).
That is very doable.
Tylor Hall
Since you did not say "Delta" just buy a round trip ticket on Airtran to
ATL and I will get you to CAE and back to ATL!! Hell who knows, since you
just got your ticket maybe Cliff and I will sit in the back and drink
No-Name while you flyl!!
JetPaul
1952 520 with 1 empty seat. (that's you dude.)
All prices are plus tax, tag and title. Options may vary. Some options
not available on all airplanes. Dealer will retain all rebates. Airport
transfer fees will be based on how many times you say "Delta." In the south
we say the letter "D" phonetically as DIXIE!!!!!! Hotel accomodations are
up to you. Be nice to the igauna, or J.B. will throw you out after about 2
hours. Smile when the dude they reffer to as "Sir" points a camera at you.
etc, etc, etc,etc.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A good day flying |
CONGRATULATIONS TYLOR!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A good day flying |
WAY TO GO!!!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: Commanderchat2@Skymaster. C2-Tech. Com
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:15 PM
Subject: A good day flying
Hay from Kansas,
Was Friday the 13 a good day for y'all?
Last year there was a lot of chat on this list about not getting a multi engine
rating in a Twin Commander, but rather go out and tear up someone's else's
twin.
I got to bash around for 10 hours in a Piper PA23-160. I went twice for the
check ride and both times the plane broke. Third times is a charm they say, and
today I passed my multi/instrument check ride.
Today was a good day. It was a little cooler and the Apache ran well and even
started when asked. It even started over the airport at 4500' when we shut
down the right engine.
Looking forward to the fly in. Anyone going by Kansas City on the way?
Tylor Hall
913-422-8869
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting to CAE |
Ok. you're off the hook Tylor. You are correct. Oct 8 is Kansas City. I
had a brain fart (beer fart?) and was thinking Witchita, Kansas. Anybody
else see the word Kansas in both names??
Come on down to ATL and I will tell Cliff we have a hitch hiker. Hell he
reads these things, so I guess he already knows.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting to CAE |
Ok. you're off the hook Tylor. You are correct. Oct 8 is Kansas City. I
had a brain fart (beer fart?) and was thinking Witchita, Kansas. Anybody
else see the word Kansas in both names??
Come on down to ATL and I will tell Cliff we have a hitch hiker. Hell he
reads these things, so I guess he already knows.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
JB,
What's the count on CAE?
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/14/02 9:15:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> JB,
> What's the count on CAE?
>
It looks like about 55 people and 13 - 14 airplanes. It will be a blast!!
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 9/15/02 10:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
COMMANDER560(at)cs.com writes:
> JB, in case of a ramp check, what will they want to see, and what am I
> expected to have on board? Thanks, Joe Shepherd
GOOD QUESTION!!
They will want to see your Pilot certificate and medical (must be on your
person or readily accessible in the airplane), the airworthenees certificate
and registration. They may also ask for the Pilot operating handbook, weight
& balance and compass card, but usually, not.
If your medical requires glasses, have them. They can ask to see your
pilot and A/C logs, but since you are not required to carry them, they will
have to allow you to make other arrangements to produce them, probably at
your local FSDO. They wont ask unless they see something really suspicious
or fine something in the other paperwork check.
If they do ask, they will be looking for annual inspection,
Transponder check, pitot check (if you look like an IFR finda guy) and ELT
batteries. They will also want to see your biannual flight check and
instrument, night and ME curency.
Be ready!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry S. Wokral <L.Wokral(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>>HI KIDS.
I just found out that Hugh Evens, Merlin Products of Spokane,
WA, is planning to be at the flyin with TCFG member Larry Wokral's gorgeous
500B with Brand new (still in experimental category) TIO 540, 320hp, single
turbo, wide deck (high TBO) engines. They plan for 205 -210kts @ 14K This
is a really special airplane and we get to see it first!! Merlin is selling
STC kits for the 500 As & Bs. dont miss it!! jb>>
Well folks, The plane isn't yet "gorgeous." This conversion process has
taken a bit longer (and has cost much more money) than originally expected.
That has eliminated the possibility of getting new paint and interior prior
to the fly-in as I had planned. I hadn't registered for the TCFG fly-in
because I wasn't sure that the plane would be flyable in time. I spoke with
Hugh Evans last Friday, and, indeed, he is hoping to have it ready, albeit
still in experimental status, just barely in time - we'll see. The plane
hasn't been through the avionics shop yet either. It does have a new panel
with E.I. MP & RPM gauges, E.I. volt/amp gauges, E.I. dual CHT gauge, Shadin
Digidata air data computer/fuel flow instrument, and a pair of JPI EDM 800
scanners. Unfortunately, time hasn't allowed the MX20 MFD, Garmin 430, and
PS Engineering audio panel to be installed in time either. The altitude
compensating oxygen system isn't completed yet either. Sooo, it is still
very much a project in process!
I'll let Hugh Evans announce the other items included in the modification. I
believe he has already mailed out flyers. I believe his STC kits will be for
the 500B, 500S, & 500U "Shrike" series. I'm not so sure that it included the
500A.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
I am back on line. I had a terrible crash here recently and on top of it I was
let down by Sprint who discontinued their 8Mbit broadband service. It caused
us to be off line for a week. It's going to be something to see how much of my
business is left.
Anyway, Chris, please put my address back on both lists, please.
Because of this disaster I won't be able to be with you guys this weekend. Sorry,
but get someone to take plenty of pictures and let us have it.
I looked forward to seeing all of you so much!
Thanks and enjoy the weekend, y'all.
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Folks,
We had a huge interruption last week with our mail servers. At long last everything
seems to be up again. Sorry about the inconvience if you tried more than
once and could not send an email....
Thanks
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deborah R. Hancock <whiteslave(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back on line |
On Wednesday, September 25, 2002, at 06:26 PM, Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> I am back on line. I had a terrible crash here recently...
OK, Nico, quit scaring us like that!
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Val Brady <valbrady(at)thegrid.net> |
Hi Chris,
A thousand apologies for screwing up my husband's Commander chat. When =
you asked all the members to re-subscribe, I set up a special mail box =
for him and emailed you that addy. I thought he was doing fine until he =
mentioned the other day that he really missed the commander club. I =
checked and realized the mailbox had never functioned properly and after =
spending several frustrating hours trying to get it to work yesterday, I =
thought it easier to just use our regular email addy. Dan promised to =
faithfully read, save and/or delete messages on a regular basis. =
Soooooooooooooo please resubscribe him (Dan Brady) under the old addy:
valbrady(at)thegrid.net.
Dan called Capt. JimBob tonight and they chatted from N.C. to NV. We =
heard you were en route from Key West and hope you made it safely to the =
fly-in without water wings.=20
Please set Dan up at your convenience.
Again we promise not to put the listserv addies in our address book.
Thanks a lot,
Val Brady
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOEMILLS(at)aol.com <MOEMILLS(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Failure in 680F(p) |
Dear Fellow Commander Drivers,
As you may remember 680RR had an engine failure on take off from HHR at about
450 ft. AGL back on September 10th
We have determined that the reason that the engine stopped suddenly, was due
to the failure of the gear reduction box on the right engine. All four 5/16
bolts which have 5/16 -24 castle nuts on them that hold the stationary gear
drive plate to the pinion cage assembly had broken.
The gear box had been completely rebuilt 77 hours before the failure, due to
the fact that one of the same bolts had been broken, and the nut was
discovered in the course screen during routine maintenance. When the one
broken bolt was found the first time, the gearbox had been in service over
1,000 hours and the work was done back in the 1980s. When the one bolt broke
the first time there was no additional damage, just a well worn gear box. We
were very perplexed as to why a bolt which was in shear only would break
where the bolt joined the nut, outside of the shear area. One opinion was
that the nut had been over torqued when the drive was originally assembled.
Personally, I did not put much faith in this theory, as it seems that when
bolts are overtorqued, the failure is either while they are being torqued, or
VERY quickley when the mechanism is put to use, not 15 years and 1,000 hours
later.
It appears that on the recently failed unit two bolts which were 180 degrees
from each other broke "clean," and the remaining two bolts remained in tact
for some time, as the precision reamed holes were elongated to approximately
1 1/2 their original diameter in the direction of rotation. When the unit
was rebuilt, earlier this year, four, oversize, new Lycoming bolts were
installed after the two sets of holes were precision reamed by the very
reputable shop which overhauled the unit.
I am trying to figure out why the bolts are breaking. Could there be a
harmonic problem with the engine? These four bolts are the only "hard link"
or "solid connection" between the crankshaft and the propeller, as everything
else is some type of gear which is either being driven by another gear, or is
driving another gear.
This is a high time engine (l,050 hours on an 1,100 TBO) which is being
removed for an engine with a fresh major overhaul. Here is my concern----
The gear box on the new engine was rebuilt by the same shop which rebuilt the
second failed unit.
Is there a possibility that harmonics caused by badly de-tuned crankshaft
counterweights could cause this?
Any, and all suggestions will be appreciated.
Moe Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failure in 680F(p) |
In a message dated 09/26/02 18:43:28 Pacific Daylight Time, MOEMILLS(at)aol.com
writes:
> I am trying to figure out why the bolts are breaking.
Moe,
First off, I have no idea why those bolts failed.
Second, thank you for keeping us informed about your "adventure." I think
some useful information will come of your investigation.
I'm going to be very indelicate and ask who did your overhaul and/or gear box
rebuild.
Central Cylinder (Omaha, Nebraska) is of the opinion that only the heavy gear
boxes are candidates for rebuild or continued time in service and they will
not do what they call "light weight" boxes.
Do you know which you have?
I realize this may have zero bearing (no pun intended) on your situation, but
it's another pointer for the IGSO-540 operators.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Hindmarsh <todd(at)inpnet.org> |
| Subject: | Engine / Carbeurator issue |
Hi,
2 of the owners took our 680 on a long cross country recently. During
cruise flight they heard a loud noise and the left engine had noticeable
trouble so they shut it down. When they landed on a large airfield that
they just happened to be close to they found out that it used to be a
military airfield that had been privatized. As luck would have it, the
mechanics were familiar with Commanders.
One of the cylinders had come apart. The good news is, the plane flew
great on one engine with very little trim needed.
The carb had been acting erratic lately and we are going to have it
rebuilt.
Here's the question: Do you think that a bad carb would contribute to a
cylinder coming apart? The mechanic suspected that it was running too
lean and that excessive heat and rapid cooling was probably the culprit.
Thanks,
Todd
N6229B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
A great time was had by all. I think that was the best catering I have ever had.
Even the broccoli wasn't toooo bad.
Thanks, Captain Jimob.
Bill, Pam, Carrie and Chris
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
There wasn't a moment this weekend that I didn't imagine I was there.
Glad all had a good time.
Totally saddened that I missed it all. Care to arrange it for Southern California
next year? Camarillo perhaps?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: WOW!!
A great time was had by all. I think that was the best catering I have ever
had. Even the broccoli wasn't toooo bad.
Thanks, Captain Jimob.
Bill, Pam, Carrie and Chris
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
You ere missed and mentioned, too. But you were not the only one by far who didn't
show. I think Izzy may have kept some folks away.
One of the Highlights of the weekend was the auction. There was no problem "keeping
it up".........I mean the bids that is.
bibo
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Bow ; commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: WOW!!
There wasn't a moment this weekend that I didn't imagine I was there.
Glad all had a good time.
Totally saddened that I missed it all. Care to arrange it for Southern California
next year? Camarillo perhaps?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: WOW!!
A great time was had by all. I think that was the best catering I have ever
had. Even the broccoli wasn't toooo bad.
Thanks, Captain Jimob.
Bill, Pam, Carrie and Chris
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
We blasted(as much as a 500A can blast) of from CAE this morning after saying our
good-byes and headed south. It was a beautiful early morning ride between
layers until we got almost to Brunswick, Ga. We got a case of "rain sandwich".
The lower came up the upper came down and the FVR "left the building". I advised
ATC I was doing a "u-ie' in search of VFR and he said, " Are you IFR rated?"
I thought for a second and advised him I was. He offered and I accepted
an IFR clearance and a climb and everything got easy again.
I have been reluctant to file IFR because I have very little single pilot IFR.
It seems to be different now from 25 years ago. I think it will now e the rule
rather than the exception. I have been dumb long enough.........well I suppose
I'll still be dumb......but I will be IFR.
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
You ere missed and mentioned, too. But you were not the only one by far who didn't
show. I think Izzy may have kept some folks away.
One of the Highlights of the weekend was the auction. There was no problem "keeping
it up".........I mean the bids that is.
bibo
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: Bow ; commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: WOW!!
There wasn't a moment this weekend that I didn't imagine I was there.
Glad all had a good time.
Totally saddened that I missed it all. Care to arrange it for Southern California
next year? Camarillo perhaps?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: WOW!!
A great time was had by all. I think that was the best catering I have ever
had. Even the broccoli wasn't toooo bad.
Thanks, Captain Jimob.
Bill, Pam, Carrie and Chris
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: return from CAE |
You've got the plane to do it in! ( I assume you are de-iced ).
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: Bow
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 14:46
Subject: return from CAE
We blasted(as much as a 500A can blast) of from CAE this morning after saying
our good-byes and headed south. It was a beautiful early morning ride between
layers until we got almost to Brunswick, Ga. We got a case of "rain sandwich".
The lower came up the upper came down and the FVR "left the building". I
advised ATC I was doing a "u-ie' in search of VFR and he said, " Are you IFR
rated?" I thought for a second and advised him I was. He offered and I accepted
an IFR clearance and a climb and everything got easy again.
I have been reluctant to file IFR because I have very little single pilot IFR.
It seems to be different now from 25 years ago. I think it will now e the
rule rather than the exception. I have been dumb long enough.........well I suppose
I'll still be dumb......but I will be IFR.
Bilbo
Aero Commander 500A
N78379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: return from CAE |
If you fly a 747 for a living and chance a "U-IE" instead of flying by the
panel,you are THE WEAKEST,,,I mean you ARE A RED-NECKED COMMANDER PILOT!!!!
REALY SORRY I MISSED IT!! BIG AL
>From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
>To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: return from CAE
>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:46:00 -0400
>
>We blasted(as much as a 500A can blast) of from CAE this morning after
>saying our good-byes and headed south. It was a beautiful early morning
>ride between layers until we got almost to Brunswick, Ga. We got a case of
>"rain sandwich". The lower came up the upper came down and the FVR "left
>the building". I advised ATC I was doing a "u-ie' in search of VFR and he
>said, " Are you IFR rated?" I thought for a second and advised him I was.
>He offered and I accepted an IFR clearance and a climb and everything got
>easy again.
>
>I have been reluctant to file IFR because I have very little single pilot
>IFR. It seems to be different now from 25 years ago. I think it will now
>e the rule rather than the exception. I have been dumb long
>enough.........well I suppose I'll still be dumb......but I will be IFR.
>
> Bilbo
>Aero Commander 500A
>N78379
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
On Sunday, September 29, 2002, at 02:56 PM, Bow wrote:
> You ere missed and mentioned, too.
How did the bid on my 680E come out? :) I have a good "single pilot
IFR" story to share too. Bottom line is the Commander is a great fun to
fly, VFR or IFR.
"Raah, raahh, sis boom baah!"
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back on line |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> Anyway, Chris, please put my address back on both lists, please.
Tis done. Sorry you were not able to make the flyin. It was great!
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Failure in 680F(p) |
MOEMILLS(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am trying to figure out why the bolts are breaking.
Moe,
Sorry to hear of your engine traumas. That is indeed a perplexing
situation. Are the bolts you're refering to the four studs which
are in the housing itself? Any chance you could send some digital
pictures? If these are the studs I'm thinking of, I would have to
agree that overtightening seems unlikely. The only time I've seen
those fail were on high time engines which had (reportedly) been
idled too slowly a lot. Once they begin to develop any "slop" in
the holes, they will begin to wear rapidly. A failure in 77 hours
leads me to believe that something was not assembled correctly.
I'm going to ponder the harmonic side of the equation - I'll need
to do a little analysis to see how that could impact the component
before I even make a guess. Bad harmonic balancers certainly can
cause a lot of engine and accessory distress, but I just wouldn't
expect it to destroy a gearbox that quickly unless either the wrong
weights had been installed or the wrong prop was on the engine.
Any pics you could supply might provide a bit more insight.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: return from CAE |
Hey guys!
Now don't go boasting too much...hope the weekend was a blast for all!
As Nico said...we really were there all weekend...well in thought anyway!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine / Carbeurator issue |
Todd Hindmarsh wrote:
> Here?s the question: Do you think that a bad carb would contribute to a
> cylinder coming apart?
Howdy Todd.
The answer to your question is certainly "yes", but I don't have enough
info to tell you whether that happened to your engine.
What exactly happened to your cylinder? Did you break a valve? If so,
was it a 7/16 or 1/2" part. If it was a broken valve AND was a 7/16,
just make a paper-weight out of the piston and join the rather large
club of folks who have a mate to it :)
Over the years, corrosion attacks valve stems and that substantially
decreases the heat transfer between the valve and guide (which is about
the only cooling the valves get). The 7/16" valves just are not strong
enough to take the additional stress and WILL fail. If this is what
happened, you might want to consider proactivly topping the other jugs
and installing new valves (assuming you think you have some good hours
left on the engine).
If you burned a hole in a piston, it is possible that your carb was a
contributing factor. They can and do get out of adjustment and don't
properly meter fuel at all power settings. Might want to ship that
puppy out to Mikes A/C Fuel metering in Tulsa, OK for an overhaul.
If the problem was a cracked cylinder, it might be simple metal fatigue.
How many hours did that cylinder have? (not since OH, total time).
My personal opinion (which is not shared by everyone) is that Cylinders
should be discarded at TBO ideally. A first-run overhaul isn't too bad
a bet, but after two TBO runs they're junk. No amount of repair work
will offset the fatigue caused by a few million explosions.....
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Howdy all!
Back from a wonderful week of fun, friends, airplanes, alchohol,
and great times. I have many stories and many pictures to share.
I will have a report up on the web site as quickly as possible and
will let y'all know when it's ready.
GREAT times!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Single pilot IFR |
Well, not long ago, I made my first instrument departure through a 4000'
thick layer to VFR on top. Yesterday, returning from Watsonville, CA
(WVI) to Chino, CA (CNO) I was humming along at 11.5, about 3K above a
cloud deck the whole way. Figuring it would open up for me once I got
to the LA basin I wasn't concerned until I got about 100 nmi out and had
to initiate a climb to get over seemingly thicker clouds. Knowing I was
coming up on a decision rather quickly, I called Flight Watch to get a
picture of the WX.
Much to my dismay, the LA basin was solid overcast with bottoms 3-4K -
it had not burned off as anticipated. I asked about going the "back"
way through the high desert and through the Cajon Pass...nope,
obscured. OK, gulp, looks like it's time for my first "real" instrument
arrival. Thankfully, I had prepared for the possibility of this
eventuality early in the flight. I had the STAR and approach plate
tagged in the NOS book and was able to program the "Ziggy.3 Arrival"
into the GPS in about 30 seconds. I was also happy about my decision to
tank up with 50 extra gallons, just in case.
Knowing I was going to have to amend my route, I turned left and started
heading for the Palmdale VORTAC. "LA Center, Commander 80E is back up
and I'd like to request an IFR arrival into Chino via the Ziggy.3
arrival." "Commander 680E, LA Center, Roger...how 'bout direct Lake
Hughes, Victor yadda, yadda, yada, direct Paradise, blah, blah, blah?"
The reason I don't have the details of that transmission is I wanted
nothing to do with them. I had the Ziggy.3 arrival procedures out, and
had it programmed into my GPS. I was going to make it as simple as
possible on myself. "No, I'd prefer the Ziggy.3" "Commander 80E roger,
cleared direct Palmdale, then V382 to intercept V442 direct Paradize for
now. Descend and maintain 11,000, and we're working on getting you the
Ziggy.3, contact Joshua approach on...." Phew! OK, I hope I can read
this whole enchilada back correctly...."OK, 80E cleared direct Palmdale,
then V382 to intercept V442 direct Paradise, descend and maintain
11,000"...where's my water bottle?
After getting rid of my cotton mouth and trimming it out at 11,000, I
found the Victor airways on my chart and began to relax a little.
"Commander 680E, turn right heading 120, descend and maintain
8000"...and down we went, right into the milky white abyss. Wings
level, recheck the DG, tune in Paradise VOR....floooofff!, everything is
grey. OK, Attitude, DG, Attitude, VSI, GPS...lookin' good. Comin' up
on 8000, whooa baby, don't blast through your assigned altitude. Scan
shows everything OK. Alright, what's the LOC freq. at CNO? Uh, 111.5,
OK, twist, twist, twist, SCAN...CRAP! Altitude 7700, PULL..."Commander
80E, descend and maintain 6000," the controller said in a "alright, I'll
let you off the hook this time" tone. So I eased back pressure on the
yolk and continued down. From then on, everything came off without a
hitch and I stayed on the needles all the way down to minimums for
practice...never off more than a dot on the GS and right on the LOC the
whole time....beginners luck. As I touched down, I let out a yelp of
accomplishment/relief - I had just successfully completed my first IFR
arrival in actual conditions, with God as my copilot.
After putting 680E to bed, I had the following thoughts:
1) That was FUN!
2) That was SCARY!
3) I really can fly an airplane in the clouds.
4) I'm gonna get a bunch more dual in "actual" conditions before
attempting an approach down to minimums on
my own.
5) I'm glad I have a Commander - a plane that goes where you point it.
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n414c <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
Milt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
Picked Chris Wall up Friday morning in ATL and headed down to the 2000 ft
grass strip about 35 minutes south by car.
Met Cliff Atkins (B-777 Capt. Retired.) and finished preflighting N411VV (AC
520-39).
Blasted off and hoped over to FFC for fuel. 100 gallons later and we are off
to CAE!
Made it within 40 miles VFR at 2,000 ft. Hit a brick wall and turned a 90
left to look for a hole north bound, nothing, and it's getting worse. 180
back southbound and continued looking. Chris Wall is an excellent C0-Pilot,
and has our position pinpointed on the sectional no matter what I do with the
heading.
No choice now, we have heard Crunk Sr, and Joe Shephard talking to Augusta
approach requesting lower from 7,000 ft about 30 miles in front of us in the
560F.
It's time to climb and get pointed east again. But we can only climb on a
west heading. Power up and pointy end elevated, 1,000 ft/min up to 5K and
then a 180 east bound still climbing to 8,500 over the top and no holes in
sight. I told chris we need to call and get an IFR descent into CAE from
AGS. Chris swaps seats with Capt. Cliff and we get started down with a
clearance.
About 25 miles out it starts breaking up, and we have a VFR descent and
approach. Just that small band of weather from IZZY.
Landed and taxied up to Eagle Aviation, we Count our self # 5 Commander to
land at about 1400 local.
Wiped the oil down and broke out the beer. Capt Jim Bob had burgers and dogs
on the grill and all was good in Commander land.
We got the oldest commander to the fly in, and she was flown by the youngest
pilots there. We got her home the same way, VFR all the way in about the
same weather. You lie about the ceiling Chris, and I'll swear that we had the
visibility!!
Then we pulled the right prop off and fixed a pesky prop dome leak that has
been present ever since overhaul. Chris Wall really knows his stuff about
these airplanes, and will be the next Morris Kernick. We need the young
faces in this crowd, and we need the forums and information exchange that can
only come from a gathering like this weekend.
We all learrned more from Morris, Capt. Jim Bob, Dick Wartinger, and John
Bosch (from Commander Aero) than we knew was possible.
Thanks to all involved, and I was honered to meet so many new good friends in
Commanderland.
JetPaul
P.S. I'm not sure which was louder, the shirts that Sir Barry and Doc. Milt
had on Saturday night, or the Sunshine Sat morning.......You just had to be
there for that one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine / Carbeurator issue |
In a message dated 9/27/02 8:57:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, todd(at)inpnet.org
writes:
> Heres the question: Do you think that a bad carb would contribute to a
> cylinder coming apart? The mechanic suspected that it was running too lean
> and that excessive heat and rapid cooling was probably the culprit
I agree that that may have been part of the trouble. Cylinders sometime just
fail?? I have had several over the years, mostly on Pratt & Whitney radials.
The engine may have been overboosted at some time in its life, of the carb
may have caused backfiring as well as overheating, or?? Don't panic.
Replace the jug, O/H the carb and "Press on"!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CAE and Beyond |
In a message dated 09/30/02 07:18:01 Pacific Daylight Time, JETPAUL(at)aol.com
writes:
> We got the oldest commander to the fly in, and she was flown by the youngest
>
> pilots there.
There is something poetic about that.
OK. On to the important reports: Who is this year's recipient of the
vaunted Golden Pedal Award?
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.
Once again I was humbled to be in charge of such a great group
of people. I am honored to serve all of you. It is you dedication and
support that makes all of this possible, Thanks. To Barry for crossing an
ocean to be there, Thanks! To Morris for putting our schedule of speakers in
order, Thanks! To Gary Tillman for his "special talent," Thanks to Chris
Wall for his inspiration, Thanks! To all of you who came, gave your time and
money Thanks.
I am already planing next years event and will happily take you
suggestions. I am plan to extend the even at least one extra day to allow us
to crawl all over each others Commanders. It was not until the departure
that we really got to see everybody's airplanes up close and personal.
Also, I plan to extend the "tech session" to include more topics and
will actually be the day before all the speakers. I have some other ideas
and look forward to yours.
LETS HAVE 100 COMMANDERS ON THE RAMP NEXT YEAR. EVERY TIME YOU SEE A
COMMANDER PARKED, TELL THEM ABOUT NEXT YEAR. LETS MAKE THE DREAM COME TRUE!!
Thanks again everybody, I am so honored to count all of you as my
friends. God Speed and remember "The good Lord never mad a bird with it's
wings on the bottom"!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CAE and Beyond |
In a message dated 9/30/02 9:19:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> OK. On to the important reports: Who is this year's recipient of the
> vaunted Golden Pedal Award?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
There were several "runners up" for the award including "Little Crunk" in the
good doctors 685, Lou Tran in his 500 but the hands down winners was Michael
Boyer and his gorgeous 680W (century) airplane. WCG will be happy to knowt
hat he to arrived at the parking spot WITH HIS FLAPS FULLY DOWN!! He
reluctantly accepted the award. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | phil stubbs <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
In trying to find an autopilot for the 560F S-TEC(my #one choice) says they
are not interested in adding the 560F to the STC. (they do cover most 500s
and up to the 680E)
Century will add their new 2000 if I bring the airplane to them and pay for
the flight testing.
If any of you 560F guys are interested in either of the above let me know
and maybe we can pool our interests.
The Century III is STCd but out of production. If anyone has a used
Century III for sale please contact me as well.
Phil
N160K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CAE and Beyond |
As Paul Harvey says, "And now the rest of the story"
The "un-coveted award" was almost snatched away the next day when Capt.Jimbob and
Buddy rolled back in after some clandestine instruction which must have rattled
some of the occupants of the Commander.
Sir Barry had it in hand but they wouldn't accept it.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: CAE and Beyond
In a message dated 9/30/02 9:19:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CloudCraft(at)aol.com
writes:
OK. On to the important reports: Who is this year's recipient of the vaunted
Golden Pedal Award?
Wing Commander Gordon
There were several "runners up" for the award including "Little Crunk" in the
good doctors 685, Lou Tran in his 500 but the hands down winners was Michael
Boyer and his gorgeous 680W (century) airplane. WCG will be happy to knowt hat
he to arrived at the parking spot WITH HIS FLAPS FULLY DOWN!! He reluctantly
accepted the award. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Wall <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com> |
| Subject: | The "un-coveted award" |
Yea that was my fault, after a less than spectacular landing I got on the pedal
to slow the bird down and try to make the high speed exit only to find that as
I went for the brakes there wasn't really much there. I staggered down the
taxiway appearing to be drunk and after plenty of heckling from JB and little
crunk in the back, I stopped the plane and switched seats with JB so that he could
confirm my suspicion that there was no nose wheel steering and that the pedals
required excessive movement to get to the brakes(I really just didn't want
to be in the front seat when we taxied up to recieve our award)Okay and with
all the excitement I never put the flaps up either.
chris
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:39:02 -0400
>As Paul Harvey says, "And now the rest of the story"
>
>The "un-coveted award" was almost snatched away the next day when Capt.Jimbob
and Buddy rolled back in after some clandestine instruction which must have rattled
some of the occupants of the Commander.
>
>Sir Barry had it in hand but they wouldn't accept it.
>
>bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: CAE and Beyond
>
>
> In a message dated 9/30/02 9:19:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CloudCraft(at)aol.com
writes:
>
>
> OK. On to the important reports: Who is this year's recipient of the vaunted
Golden Pedal Award?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
> There were several "runners up" for the award including "Little Crunk" in the
good doctors 685, Lou Tran in his 500 but the hands down winners was Michael
Boyer and his gorgeous 680W (century) airplane. WCG will be happy to knowt hat
he to arrived at the parking spot WITH HIS FLAPS FULLY DOWN!! He reluctantly
accepted the award. jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The "un-coveted award" |
I TOLD YOU THEY WERE RATTLED.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Wall" <cwall(at)worldflight2000.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: The "un-coveted award"
> Yea that was my fault, after a less than spectacular landing I got on the
pedal to slow the bird down and try to make the high speed exit only to find
that as I went for the brakes there wasn't really much there. I staggered
down the taxiway appearing to be drunk and after plenty of heckling from JB
and little crunk in the back, I stopped the plane and switched seats with JB
so that he could confirm my suspicion that there was no nose wheel steering
and that the pedals required excessive movement to get to the brakes(I
really just didn't want to be in the front seat when we taxied up to recieve
our award)Okay and with all the excitement I never put the flaps up either.
>
> chris
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:39:02 -0400
>
> >As Paul Harvey says, "And now the rest of the story"
> >
> >The "un-coveted award" was almost snatched away the next day when
Capt.Jimbob and Buddy rolled back in after some clandestine instruction
which must have rattled some of the occupants of the Commander.
> >
> >Sir Barry had it in hand but they wouldn't accept it.
> >
> >bilbo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
> > To: CloudCraft(at)aol.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: CAE and Beyond
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/30/02 9:19:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
CloudCraft(at)aol.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > OK. On to the important reports: Who is this year's recipient of
the vaunted Golden Pedal Award?
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
> > There were several "runners up" for the award including "Little Crunk"
in the good doctors 685, Lou Tran in his 500 but the hands down winners was
Michael Boyer and his gorgeous 680W (century) airplane. WCG will be happy
to knowt hat he to arrived at the parking spot WITH HIS FLAPS FULLY DOWN!!
He reluctantly accepted the award. jb
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
My 680E is for sale. 7700TTAF, approx. 400 SMOH R/L., all AD's & SB's
complied with, IFR GPS equipped, Shrike nose, needs paint. Asking
$130K. Please contact me directly for pics and further specs.
Cheers,
Barry Hancock
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Crunkleton <crunk12(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Guys,
What a Blast! Great food, great speakers, great people. To those of you
unable to make it......... my condolences.
I learned a lot:
Praying is good but not required when turning on your heater!
Proper propeller maintenence is a must!
Let Morris handle the fuel cell installation!
Dick Wartinger has to know as much as TedSmith!
Large cajones are required to circle the planet!
It is not necessary to move, twitch, or flinch to be a (successful?)
bidder when Gary is at his finest!
Jim Bob does chicken right!
The greatest Commander pilot, Bob Hoover, was remembered during "Hoover
Hour".
560E's are difficult to fly straight and level!
The knowlege and experience all collected in one place was staggering!
Sir Barry likes his ciggies!
Joe and I were the last to leave after watching all the Commanders take
to the sky. I really hated to see such a good time come to an end.
Next year will be even better!
Crunk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/1/02 7:00:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ProgSearch
writes:
> Capt. Jimbob:
>
> Sorry, That I was a no show on Friday. I had my presentation ready and
> headed to the Cincinnati Airport at 9 AM Local. Checked in with Delta and
> proceeded to the gate. Boarded the aircraft at 10:30 AM for a 10:55
> departure. The aircraft backed away from the gate and we taxied out to
> runway 9. The thrust levers went forward at 11:02 and the takeoff role
> began on the 50 passenger Bombardier regional jet. Just before V1 100kts
> indicated the thrust levers were pulled back and we aborted the takeoff.
> After a brief taxi back to the gate the capt explained that the anti skid
> warning light illuminated prior to V1 so the takeoff had to be aborted. We
> pulled back up to the gate and after a brief discussion with Maintenance
> control, the flight was canceled. The next two flights to Columbia were
> oversold. I waited for both, but was unable to get on as I was a standby
> passenger.
>
> Hopefully, you will allow me to do my presentation of crossing the North
> Atlantic in a 500S next year at Commander Aero. I live 60 miles from Dick's
> place.
>
> Sorry I missed it. I sounds like you guys had a blast.
>
> Kevin Coons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry It's Over |
I think it should be a day longer..;>)
bilbo
> Hi Guys,
> What a Blast! Great food, great speakers, great people. To those of you
> unable to make it......... my condolences.
> I learned a lot:
>
> Praying is good but not required when turning on your heater!
>
> Proper propeller maintenence is a must!
>
> Let Morris handle the fuel cell installation!
>
> Dick Wartinger has to know as much as TedSmith!
>
> Large cajones are required to circle the planet!
>
> It is not necessary to move, twitch, or flinch to be a (successful?)
> bidder when Gary is at his finest!
>
> Jim Bob does chicken right!
>
> The greatest Commander pilot, Bob Hoover, was remembered during "Hoover
> Hour".
>
> 560E's are difficult to fly straight and level!
>
> The knowlege and experience all collected in one place was staggering!
>
> Sir Barry likes his ciggies!
>
> Joe and I were the last to leave after watching all the Commanders take
> to the sky. I really hated to see such a good time come to an end.
> Next year will be even better!
>
> Crunk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry It's Over |
In a message dated 10/1/02 5:18:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w.bow(at)att.net
writes:
> I think it should be a day longer..;>)
>
Next year it will be at least a day longer and thanks to all for the
accolades!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: THANKS TO ALL |
Now that's something I would've wanted to listen to. Next year in Camarillo, CA?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:25 PM
Subject: Fwd: THANKS TO ALL
In a message dated 10/1/02 7:00:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ProgSearch writes:
Capt. Jimbob:
Sorry, That I was a no show on Friday. I had my presentation ready and headed
to the Cincinnati Airport at 9 AM Local. Checked in with Delta and proceeded
to the gate. Boarded the aircraft at 10:30 AM for a 10:55 departure. The aircraft
backed away from the gate and we taxied out to runway 9. The thrust levers
went forward at 11:02 and the takeoff role began on the 50 passenger Bombardier
regional jet. Just before V1 100kts indicated the thrust levers were pulled
back and we aborted the takeoff. After a brief taxi back to the gate the capt
explained that the anti skid warning light illuminated prior to V1 so the takeoff
had to be aborted. We pulled back up to the gate and after a brief discussion
with Maintenance control, the flight was canceled. The next two flights
to Columbia were oversold. I waited for both, but was unable to get on as I was
a standby passenger.
Hopefully, you will allow me to do my presentation of crossing the North Atlantic
in a 500S next year at Commander Aero. I live 60 miles from Dick's place.
Sorry I missed it. I sounds like you guys had a blast.
Kevin Coons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | The Commander Family |
A year ago at HIO, many of us had the chance to meet in person for the
first time. Most of us already felt that we knew each other well from
our conversations via email. This year's flyin was especially
meaningful as it was no longer just a meeting of people - it was a
meeting of friends. Jim: thanks again for putting the fly-in together
for us! This event has certainly taken on a life of it's own. Beyond
the valuable Commander discussions and wonderful speakers, it is now a
place to enjoy the comradery of some truely fine people with a common bond.
http://www.aerocommander.com/Tmp/mvc-208f.jpg
Here's to all of you - both those that were able to attend as well as
those who were not. I'm already looking forward to 2003 and hope that
we'll manage to get that magic "100 Commanders" together!
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: The Commander Family |
Great image Chris, wish I had been there.
Just one thing, did you notice the line man fueling the plane when the image
was captured?
It seems a tad ironic that he was in the image of "The Commander Family", is
something being implied?
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 18:41
Subject: The Commander Family
> A year ago at HIO, many of us had the chance to meet in person for the
> first time. Most of us already felt that we knew each other well from
> our conversations via email. This year's flyin was especially
> meaningful as it was no longer just a meeting of people - it was a
> meeting of friends. Jim: thanks again for putting the fly-in together
> for us! This event has certainly taken on a life of it's own. Beyond
> the valuable Commander discussions and wonderful speakers, it is now a
> place to enjoy the comradery of some truely fine people with a common
bond.
> http://www.aerocommander.com/Tmp/mvc-208f.jpg
>
> Here's to all of you - both those that were able to attend as well as
> those who were not. I'm already looking forward to 2003 and hope that
> we'll manage to get that magic "100 Commanders" together!
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Commander Family |
> Here's to all of you - both those that were able to attend as well as
> those who were not. I'm already looking forward to 2003 and hope that
> we'll manage to get that magic "100 Commanders" together!
>
> Chris
HERE HERE!!!!!
The Bows will be there
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Isn't this just the way it is?
Nico
A Senior Moment
An elderly couple had dinner at another couple's house, and after eating,
the wives left the table and went into the kitchen. The two elderly gentlemen
were talking and one said "Last night we went out to a new restaurant
and it was really great. I would recommend it very highly."
The other man said, "What's the name of the restaurant ?"
The first knits his brow in obvious concentration, and finally said to his companion,
"Aahh, What is the name of that red flower you give to someone you love ?"
His friend replies, "A Carnation ?"
"No. No. The other one" the man says.
His friend offers another suggestion, "The poppy ?"
"Nahhhh," growls the man. "You know the one that is red and has thorns."
His friend said, "Do you mean a rose ?"
"Yes,Yes that's it. Thank you!" He then turns toward the kitchen and yells,
"Rose, what's the name of that restaurant we went to last night?"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
Wow...what a great get-together. After several years of communicating with
you guys via email, it was tremendous to meet you all in person. Really
enjoyed the enthusiam, humor, interest, expertise, and especially the
commradarie of fellow Commander folks.
Sincere thanks to Capt. JimBob for the obvious efforts to pull off a
sucessful event...I sure came away with new knowledge about Aero Commanders.
I have a bunch of pictures, which I will email to you all as soon as I sort
them out.
Of course, I couldn't beat our mode of transportation from California and
back...what a great ride at FL290 and 300 knots in that beautiful 690B/Dash
10. Of course the blown tire on landing at Tulsa's "Pogue International
Airport" on the way back (Home of Chris & Kim S.) was pretty eventful.
Thanks to the efforts of Chris, Morris, Tyler, Barry, Darryl, myself (I got
the job of digging the left wheel out of the mud on the side of the runway),
and the fine airport staff, we had the 690 back on the runway, towed to the
ramp, and repairs started to replace the blown tire. Special thanks to
Chris for conveniently having a Commander tire handy. Unfortunately, the
"O" ring between the split rims was shot, and none available on a Sunday
afternoon so, we overnight'ed to complete the job on Monday morning.
Repairs completed, with some gear retraction glitches solved, we were back
in the air & on our way home westward bound at FL280 by Monday afternoon.
Gorgeous weather all the way home, except for those pesky westerly headwinds
- 60+ knots pretty much on the nose slowed us down to 232 knots across the
ground. Touched down in Hayward at about 5PM Pacific time...what a great
adventure.
Hope to make it to Dayton in 03...in my 680F. Yahooooo..!!!
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | A Commander article |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/2/02 8:11:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rcdettmer(at)charter.net writes:
>
> Of course, I couldn't beat our mode of transportation from California and
> back...
I thought I would share a little about my adventure home on the "crowd
killer" Arrived at the airport in Columbia at about noon, an hour early as we
all must do now. Found my flight was canceled but I was booked on another
leaving in 1.5 hours. Got aboard and settled in, pushed back, taxied about
100 yards and I heard the engines spooling down?? The Capt. announced that
there was a "ground stop" on all traffic into Atlanta and he would let us
know when he had word. We sat on the ramp for a little over an hour before
we got underway again.
A quick change of planes in Atlanta and an OnTime departure after a
"photo finish" flat out run to the gate. Just after breaking out of the
overcast, I noticed we were circling?? and the flaps were not coming up?? I
could here the retraction motor in the floor grinding away (It sounded like
it had a tummy ach) Anyway, after a couple of 360s the flaps came mostly up
and we headed of for 4.4 hours jammed in a tiny seat next to a guy that
smelled funny??
The flaps never did completely retract, I could see the rub line left
from where they normally close and the inboard alienors flew down about 10 -
12 degrees all the way. I was prepared to experience a "no flap" landing but
the Capt. was able to get about 2/3 flaps. He started them down at least 50
miles out. I spoke with him after landing and he reluctantly admitted that
we landed with "less than full flaps" He did a good job and I was glad he
decided to press on instead of returning to Atlanta.
Got to the horizon airline gate to find the Dehavilin Q-400 was also
broke. The maintenance crew was "running the engines"?? They were OK so we
boarded and I must look like a Muslim extremist between the ages of 18 - 40
since I was once again removed from the boarding line and strip searched.
They confiscated a small screwdriver that had survived four other inspections
(They confiscated my fingernail clipper key ring on the way out)
I finally arrived home at about 9pm, 13 hour after arriving at the
airport in SC. It is 2300 miles in the Commander @ 200mph = 11 hours plus a
couple of quick fuel stops @ 30 minutes each and I could have matched the
airline time door to door, in old triple 2. I hope I neve have to step foot
on any airline again. Glad to be home....jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/02/02 09:01:47 Pacific Daylight Time, YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
writes:
> They confiscated a small screwdriver that had survived four other
> inspections (They confiscated my fingernail clipper key ring on the way
> out)
>
You fit the profile that the TSA is worried about: It's people like you who
would fight your way into the cockpit and give the crew a pedicure.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commander Article |
CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> I should have known this was from Aviation Consumer.
>
> Someday that august publication will utilize authors who know something
> about the airplanes they're writing about.
Ah, I see you and I share the same respect for A-C. You should read the
review they did on the Bellanca Viking. It was vastly more inaccurate
then the Commander review was. I'd have thought it was an april-fools
joke if it had showed up anywhere else...
oh well
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Commander Article |
I should have known this was from Aviation Consumer.
Someday that august publication will utilize authors who know something about
the airplanes they're writing about.
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
HI KIDS.
I have the honor of introducing a couple of new TCFG members,
both flying 500As with collmill conversions! First is our friend Gary
Tillman. While Gary has been a part of our group for years and has attended
the last two flyins, he only last week became an "official" member. Gary
flies a 500A with all the toys and only, sit down, 2290hrs TT!!
We also will welcome into our fold Mr. Doug Trimper. Doug just bought
N887BD from Gary Gadberry. It to is a 500A with all the bells and whistles
and has, sit down, 9700 hrs!! Doug and his wife Cynthia make there home in
Ocean City MD.
Welcome aboard all!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
Perhaps Doug could fill us in on his experience with Gary. I remember not too long
ago we bombarded Gary with promises of less than cooperative business relationships
(how's that for spin...) and it would be interesting to know if he has
seen the error of his ways. It would be in everybody's interest to have Gary
become a productive member of this clan rather than an outcast.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: NEW MEMBERS
HI KIDS.
I have the honor of introducing a couple of new TCFG members, both
flying 500As with collmill conversions! First is our friend Gary Tillman.
While Gary has been a part of our group for years and has attended the last two
flyins, he only last week became an "official" member. Gary flies a 500A with
all the toys and only, sit down, 2290hrs TT!!
We also will welcome into our fold Mr. Doug Trimper. Doug just bought
N887BD from Gary Gadberry. It to is a 500A with all the bells and whistles and
has, sit down, 9700 hrs!! Doug and his wife Cynthia make there home in Ocean
City MD.
Welcome aboard all!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Come on NICO, give me a break.
The general public is tough enough...
Sorry you've missed the last two Commander events.
My commitment to the insurance industry is deep rooted...
The problem is there are only 3 markets insuring Commanders (piston).
If you need a good agent that understands the risk management business then
give me a call...I currently own a 500A.
My first twin was a 1958 500, N55BW, which is for sale... Call Ford Cooper...
I'll shoot straight with you...
The real problem is there are pilots trying to insure these planes that have
no business flying them. (my opinion)
Over the last few years I've had many calls requesting coverage.
The pilots have no instrument rating, no multiengine rating, and very little
RG time.
Not to mention the pilots with the above credentials are expecting coverage
in a
Pressurized Cabin.(I personally would not put my family in the plane with
that pilot.)
Also,
If you call another agent prior to calling me, I'll be "BLOCKED" from the
quote.
Now NICO,
Show up at the next fly-in and I'll buy your dinner.
How's that for Southern Hospitality...?
Fly Safe and have fun...
Gary Tillman, Pres.
Aviation Ins Brokers of North America 800-228-4283.
www.flysafeinsurance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JETPAUL(at)aol.com <JETPAUL(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Wrong Gary, Nico |
OOOOPPPSSS??
Wrong Gary Nico. But your heart is in the right place.
We were (are) still upset that Gary Gadberry has never delivered the Mr RPM
Commander to Chris Shuerman.
Gary Tillman, is who joined the group this past weekend.
JetPaul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
Come on NICO, give me a break.
The general public is tough enough...
Sorry you've missed the last two Commander events.
My commitment to the insurance industry is deep rooted...
The problem is there are only 3 markets insuring Commanders (piston).
If you need a good agent that understands the risk management business then
give me a call...I currently own a 500A.
My first twin was a 1958 500, N55BW, which is for sale... Call Ford Cooper...
I'll shoot straight with you...
The real problem is there are pilots trying to insure these planes that have
no business flying them. (my opinion)
Over the last few years I've had many calls requesting coverage.
The pilots have no instrument rating, no multiengine rating, and very little
RG time.
Not to mention the pilots with the above credentials are expecting coverage
in a
Pressurized Cabin.(I personally would not put my family in the plane with
that pilot.)
Also,
If you call another agent prior to calling me, I'll be "BLOCKED" from the
quote.
Now NICO,
Show up at the next fly-in and I'll buy your dinner.
How's that for Southern Hospitality...?
Fly Safe and have fun...
Gary Tillman, Pres.
Aviation Ins Brokers of North America 800-228-4283.
www.flysafeinsurance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
I have the honor of introducing a couple of new TCFG members, both
flying 500As with collmill conversions! First is our friend Gary Tillman. While
Gary has been a part of our group for years and has attended the last two
flyins, he only last week became an "official" member. Gary flies a 500A with
all the toys and only, sit down, 2290hrs TT!!
Welcome Gary T. Nice to meet you last week. Sorry obout Nico, he's adopted ;>)
We also will welcome into our fold Mr. Doug Trimper. Doug just bought N887BD
from Gary Gadberry. It to is a 500A with all the bells and whistles and
has, sit down, 9700 hrs!! Doug and his wife Cynthia make there home in Ocean
City MD.
Welcome Doug and Cynthia, hope to see you at the next one.
bilbo
N78379
500A(Super Nutin)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
MAN, did my omission rattle some cages or what.
Guys, I meant to say Gary Gadberry. At the time of writing it was obvious to me
that it was Gary (G) because I was replying to the story that Doug Trimper bought
his 500A from GG and it would be interesting to know if he has given him
good service or what.
Sorry about that. I had such a good laugh people came over to find out if I had
a stroke or something.
Hey, Gary (Tillman), you're safe, man. The competition is fierce I know. I had
a brokerage company many years ago and it's cut-throat because buyers oftentimes
find out about insurance like a bucket of cold water falling on them. Then
they squeeze the only people left in the mix: you guys.
Such is life. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBERS
Come on NICO, give me a break.
The general public is tough enough...
Sorry you've missed the last two Commander events.
My commitment to the insurance industry is deep rooted...
The problem is there are only 3 markets insuring Commanders (piston).
If you need a good agent that understands the risk management business then give
me a call...I currently own a 500A.
My first twin was a 1958 500, N55BW, which is for sale... Call Ford Cooper...
I'll shoot straight with you...
The real problem is there are pilots trying to insure these planes that have
no business flying them. (my opinion)
Over the last few years I've had many calls requesting coverage.
The pilots have no instrument rating, no multiengine rating, and very little
RG time.
Not to mention the pilots with the above credentials are expecting coverage
in a
Pressurized Cabin.(I personally would not put my family in the plane with that
pilot.)
Also,
If you call another agent prior to calling me, I'll be "BLOCKED" from the quote.
Now NICO,
Show up at the next fly-in and I'll buy your dinner.
How's that for Southern Hospitality...?
Fly Safe and have fun...
Gary Tillman, Pres.
Aviation Ins Brokers of North America 800-228-4283.
www.flysafeinsurance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Could this be a case of "Gary confusion" like "nipple confusion"???
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: TILLMAN333(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; YOURTCFG(at)aol.com ; commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBERS
Come on NICO, give me a break.
The general public is tough enough...
Sorry you've missed the last two Commander events.
My commitment to the insurance industry is deep rooted...
The problem is there are only 3 markets insuring Commanders (piston).
If you need a good agent that understands the risk management business then give
me a call...I currently own a 500A.
My first twin was a 1958 500, N55BW, which is for sale... Call Ford Cooper...
I'll shoot straight with you...
The real problem is there are pilots trying to insure these planes that have
no business flying them. (my opinion)
Over the last few years I've had many calls requesting coverage.
The pilots have no instrument rating, no multiengine rating, and very little
RG time.
Not to mention the pilots with the above credentials are expecting coverage
in a
Pressurized Cabin.(I personally would not put my family in the plane with that
pilot.)
Also,
If you call another agent prior to calling me, I'll be "BLOCKED" from the quote.
Now NICO,
Show up at the next fly-in and I'll buy your dinner.
How's that for Southern Hospitality...?
Fly Safe and have fun...
Gary Tillman, Pres.
Aviation Ins Brokers of North America 800-228-4283.
www.flysafeinsurance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Commander article |
I printed the article so that I could read it where I am alone because I
thought it contained some objective things about AC's. It seems as if this
guy threw in everything at an angle. He must own an Apache or Seneca I or
something and is still walking around in wet underwear.
I mean I could have written about my straight 500's single hydraulic
pump also. I could have written about this hot-jock a/hole who chartered it
one day and who paid more attention to his ego than what I was telling him
about the plane, such as starting the left engine first.
So, he smartly cranked the right engine while I waited by the nose wheel
to remove the chock. With no time to react, and to my horror, it fired after
the first compression. This SOB must've had the throttle half-way cocked
because the ship jumped the chock and there I was pushing back, hopelessly
outnumbered in horses, with my arms around the nose cone and my face flat
against the top of the nose as I strained to save what would soon by a pile
of aluminum underneath a Lear Jet parked a few yards away.
I saw his body straighten up as he must've pushed the brakes through the
floor-board with obviously no effect at all and it must've given him the
sense that the plane was lunging forward, expecting the brakes to be there.
Anyway he shut the engine down almost immediately but as the mixture
lessened the engine gave a last spurt of power before cutting out which came
close to cause my cussing to be heard above the roar of the engine. For a
moment there I thought he wasn't capable of actually increasing power under
the circumstances. Or was he? For the sake of clarity, allow me to say this:
@#$% &*& %$@. It didn't help then and it didn't help now, but what the
hell.
After I changed his diapers and put the chock back he followed orders
and the flight ended without further incident.
That's what I could have written. All of this was, after all, the
Commander's fault, now wasn't it?
But instead any of us would have written that, "...like many other twins
of the time, there was only one hydraulic pump."
Why can't some folks keep things simple?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: "Chris Schuermann" ;
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: A Commander article
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Commander article |
Nico van Niekerk wrote:
> Why can't some folks keep things simple?
Yup. I do appreciate it, however, when someone passes this kind of info
around (Thanks Tom!). It allows us to know what some of the less
informed perspectives of our aircraft are. The article, although
inaccurate in some areas) was an interesting read. Such writings are a
double-edged sword. They can keep airframe prices down (a good thing
for buyers, but bad for sellers of course). They can also give us the
opportunity to spread the truth if there are fundamental "old wives
tales" floating about. It might also point out a true deficiency which
we may have all just learned to deal with and maybe cause someone to
create an improvment for the airplane (speed mods, engine upgrades, etc).
my 2 cents
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
Dang - Lycoming is taking a beating on ADs this year. For those of you
with IO-540 Engines (500, 500B/U/S), read the following. You have 10
hours or 7 days to comply:
http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/df63a35116ace9d186256c4500653de8!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-1#_Section1
sorry to bear bad news
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry S. Wokral <L.Wokral(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
>Dang - Lycoming is taking a beating on ADs this year. For those of you
with IO-540 Engines (500, 500B/U/S), read the following. You have 10
hours or 7 days to comply:
http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/df63a3
5116ace9d186256c4500653de8!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-1#_Section1
sorry to bear bad news
chris>
This AD covers TIO540 >300HP and those who have added aftermarket STCd
turbos allowing >300HP.
Actually this last AD (third in this series) is broken into two tables. One
requires crankshaft core testing within the next 10 hours. Another requires
core testing within the next 50 hours or six months. This last AD adds to
the previous two which simply required replacements before further flight.
The big problem for owners in the last two ADs is that Lycoming presently
has NO replacement crankshafts. Further, they haven't even figured out just
how they will be testing all these crankshafts. When they are able to do the
core sample tests, a passing test will simply allow a log book entry, and
flight may be continued. If the test fails, its a get in line for
replacements wait. I've heard that replacements may not be available for up
to ten months - Ack!
My 500B is still at Merlyn getting their new 320 conversion. We hoped to
make it to the TCFG doo in Columbia SC, but progress in completing the
project was disrupted when this last AD came out (by serial number, both of
my engines were excluded from the first two ADs but were included in the
third). That is why Hugh Evans and I weren't able to make it.
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Chris Schuermann wrote:
> For those of you with IO-540 Engines...
Ooop, sorry I meant 540 series engines. This does apply to the O-540 as
well. Also, the AD is in error, it refers to a 500E model but does not
mention the 500S. Guess we can't expect OKC to know much about
Commanders - they are several miles from the old factory :)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Larry S. Wokral wrote:
> This AD covers TIO540 >300HP and those who have added aftermarket STCd
> turbos allowing >300HP.
Larry,
Sorry to say, but this is a NEW AD (issued today). It requires
replacement of the crank gear bolt.
chris
PS: I kind of expect the crank AD to get expanded. Why would an engine
with aftermarket turbo normalization be hit but the same engine without
turbos not? It was a metalurgical problem with the crank. The flaw
exists with or without turbos - same crank...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Commander article |
In a message dated 10/2/02 4:33:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> I saw his body straighten up as he must've pushed the brakes through the
> floor-board with obviously no effect at all and it must've given him the
> sense that the plane was lunging forward, expecting the brakes to be there
OH YEA!! When I was a brand new (young) Commander driver (before I learned
to really fly it) I came screaming into the fuel pumps and reached over and
pulled the mixtures to idle cut off, intending to coast in like a "big dog."
You know what happened next. My 560A only had one pump but ten engine drive
pumps would not have made any difference with the props stopped. You only
get one push on the brakes, one. Then OH #$!* %$~#$. The good news, I
didn't hit anything expensive. (A little curb and the wing tip hit some tree
branches, no damage.) The bad news, all my airport buds were in attendance.
These are hydraulic airplanes!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | A Commander article |
I wrote this in response to a negatively slanted article on Aero Commanders.
Thought you may find it humorous.
Nico
I printed the article so that I could read it where I am alone because
I
thought it contained some objective things about AC's. It seems as if this
guy threw in everything at an angle. He must own an Apache or Seneca I or
something and is still walking around in wet underwear.
I mean I could have written about my straight 500's single hydraulic
pump also. I could have written about this hot-jock who chartered it
one day and who paid more attention to his ego than what I was telling him
about the plane, such as starting the left engine first.
So, he smartly cranked the right engine while I waited by the nose
wheel
to remove the chock. With no time to react, and to my horror, it fired
after
the first compression. He must've had the throttle half-way cocked
because the ship jumped the chock and there I was pushing back, hopelessly
outnumbered in horses, with my arms around the nose-cone and my face flat
against the top of the nose as I strained to save what would soon be a pile
of aluminum underneath a Lear Jet parked a few yards away.
I saw his body straighten up as he must've pushed the brakes through the
floor-board with obviously no effect at all and it must've given him the
sense that the plane was lunging forward, expecting the brakes to be there.
Anyway he shut the engine down almost immediately but as the mixture
lessened the engine gave a last spurt of power before cutting out which
came
close to cause my cussing to be heard above the roar of the engine. For a
moment there I thought he wasn't capable of actually increasing power under
the circumstances. Or was he?
After I changed his diapers and put the chock back he followed orders
and the flight ended without further incident.
That's what I could have written. All of this was, after all, the
Commander's fault, now wasn't it?
But instead any of us would have written that, "...like many other
twins
of the time, there was only one hydraulic pump."
Why can't some folks keep things simple?
Nico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CloudCraft(at)aol.com <CloudCraft(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/02/02 15:24:05 Pacific Daylight Time,
nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:
> Guys, I meant to say Gary Gadberry. At the time of writing it was obvious to
> me that it was Gary (G) because I was replying to the story that Doug
> Trimper bought his 500A from GG and it would be interesting to know if he
> has given him good service or what.
>
That's how I read it: Gadberry. ;-)
Wing Commander Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Tom Fisher wrote:
> I would like to know a lot more than I do about the Merlyn conversion.
> What is involved?
> Are there any 680FL or FLP's with the conversion?
Morris gave a short presentation at the Fly-in about the Merlyn
offerings. In a nutshell, they offer a "wide-deck" (2000hr TBO)
replacement for the direct drive Lycs (500B/U/S aircraft). They have
two products a turbo-normalized "bolt-on" replacement of 320hp and a
Boosted 350hp version. Substantial gross weight increases come with the
upgrade. (up to an additional 2050lbs !)
As I understood, the 350hp version is rather expensive as it requires
cowl mods and new engine mounts. The 320hp option is supposed to be a
bit more "affordable" and fits with the existing stuff.
At this time, the long-body Commanders havn't been addressed.
http://www.merlynproducts.com/
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry W. Hancock <radialpower(at)cox.net> |
Hey all,
Just thought I'd share with you that Bilbo was out at Chino today,
lookin' over my 680E (did I mention it's for sale?) and my, uh, wait,
how did WCG put it?, "Pinko commie rat bastard" airplane.
We took a ride in the 680E so I could show a 74 cargo hauler how it's
really done. He had no idea what was about to happen.....
It started with a max climb take-off to a postive G transition to level
flight (half roll and pull). After climbing to gain some energy
reserves, I honked it around and came back over the field for a two
point roll into a Cuban 8. This was followed by a barrel roll and wing
over, feathering the outboard engine at about 90 degrees to increase
the roll rate and set up for the knife edge pass. Crosswinds were a bit
high so I could not do my normal individual main gear touchdowns, but I
was still able to do my immelman, throwing the gear out at the top and
cutting the other engine for a dead stick landing. After rolling back
to the chalks without touching the breaks, I looked at Biblo he said
"that was OK, but you should see me do a no lights low pass with my hula
skirt on in a 747-200 at max gross!"
One up-ed again, but thanks to this chat list two AC drivers from
opposite coasts got together and shared lies.
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com <tom_kinnaird(at)bankone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Commander article |
Forgive me, I am a "wanna-be" Pilot so I am not always able to read between
the lines! You lost me when you said "..... For a
moment there I thought he wasn't capable of actually increasing power under
the circumstances." Did he advance the throttle??
Nico van Niekerk on 10/02/2002 07:37:28 PM
To: Tom Fisher , Chris Schuermann
, commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
cc:
Subject: Re: A Commander article
I printed the article so that I could read it where I am alone because
I
thought it contained some objective things about AC's. It seems as if this
guy threw in everything at an angle. He must own an Apache or Seneca I or
something and is still walking around in wet underwear.
I mean I could have written about my straight 500's single hydraulic
pump also. I could have written about this hot-jock a/hole who chartered it
one day and who paid more attention to his ego than what I was telling him
about the plane, such as starting the left engine first.
So, he smartly cranked the right engine while I waited by the nose
wheel
to remove the chock. With no time to react, and to my horror, it fired
after
the first compression. This SOB must've had the throttle half-way cocked
because the ship jumped the chock and there I was pushing back, hopelessly
outnumbered in horses, with my arms around the nose cone and my face flat
against the top of the nose as I strained to save what would soon by a pile
of aluminum underneath a Lear Jet parked a few yards away.
I saw his body straighten up as he must've pushed the brakes through the
floor-board with obviously no effect at all and it must've given him the
sense that the plane was lunging forward, expecting the brakes to be there.
Anyway he shut the engine down almost immediately but as the mixture
lessened the engine gave a last spurt of power before cutting out which
came
close to cause my cussing to be heard above the roar of the engine. For a
moment there I thought he wasn't capable of actually increasing power under
the circumstances. Or was he? For the sake of clarity, allow me to say
this:
@#$% &*& %$@. It didn't help then and it didn't help now, but what the
hell.
After I changed his diapers and put the chock back he followed orders
and the flight ended without further incident.
That's what I could have written. All of this was, after all, the
Commander's fault, now wasn't it?
But instead any of us would have written that, "...like many other
twins
of the time, there was only one hydraulic pump."
Why can't some folks keep things simple?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: "Chris Schuermann" ;
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: A Commander article
>
>
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient,
you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is
STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately
contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in
electronic or hard copy format. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nico van Niekerk <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A Commander article |
There are not many things that teach one humbleness than an experience like this.
Had a few of the "Oh s..t" type of incidents too.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
To: nico(at)cybersuperstore.com ; tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca ; chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
; commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: A Commander article
In a message dated 10/2/02 4:33:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com
writes:
I saw his body straighten up as he must've pushed the brakes through the
floor-board with obviously no effect at all and it must've given him the
sense that the plane was lunging forward, expecting the brakes to be there
OH YEA!! When I was a brand new (young) Commander driver (before I learned to
really fly it) I came screaming into the fuel pumps and reached over and pulled
the mixtures to idle cut off, intending to coast in like a "big dog." You
know what happened next. My 560A only had one pump but ten engine drive pumps
would not have made any difference with the props stopped. You only get one
push on the brakes, one. Then OH #$!* %$~#$. The good news, I didn't hit anything
expensive. (A little curb and the wing tip hit some tree branches, no damage.)
The bad news, all my airport buds were in attendance. These are hydraulic
airplanes!! jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | YOURTCFG(at)aol.com <YOURTCFG(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 10/3/02 10:17:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
MAILER-DAEMON(at)aol.com writes:
> HI KIDS..
>
> I just sent a check (checks) totaling $1362.00 the Angel
> Flight, in Tulsa, OK. For those of you who missed our gathering, we had an
> absolute blast doing the auction!! Gary Tillman, a retired auctioneer, did
> the honors and it was a TON of fun. The items brought for auction were,
> well, amazing. The most fun thing was Crunk buying back the t shirts he
> donated!!
> Anyway, we had a blast and if you missed it, it was your loss.
> Angel Flight will be pleased to be the beneficiary of you generosity and I
> am humbled to be allowed to forward this gift to them. Thanks to all. jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry S. Wokral <L.Wokral(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Tom Fisher wrote:
> I would like to know a lot more than I do about the Merlyn conversion.
> What is involved?
> Are there any 680FL or FLP's with the conversion?
And Chris wrote:
>Morris gave a short presentation at the Fly-in about the Merlyn
offerings. In a nutshell, they offer a "wide-deck" (2000hr TBO)
replacement for the direct drive Lycs (500B/U/S aircraft). They have
two products a turbo-normalized "bolt-on" replacement of 320hp and a
Boosted 350hp version. Substantial gross weight increases come with the
upgrade. (up to an additional 2050lbs !)
As I understood, the 350hp version is rather expensive as it requires
cowl mods and new engine mounts. The 320hp option is supposed to be a
bit more "affordable" and fits with the existing stuff.
At this time, the long-body Commanders havn't been addressed.
http://www.merlynproducts.com/>
Perhaps I should describe what Merlyn is doing since Hugh Evans has not
really described it all yet. As Chris said above, these only are offered for
the 500B/U/S models.
1.) They have the boosted 350hp STC that is described on their website and
has been around for awhile.
2.) They offer an IO540M1A5 or M1C5 wide deck, 2000 hr. TBO replacement
engine STC. No turbo or turbonormalizing involved.
3.) My 500B is the prototype for their "Merlyn 320 Shrike" which will be
fully STCd for the "Shrike" series. This includes very low time since new
TIO540AE2A(MC) BOOSTED engines with new cylinder & piston assemblies (I
selected Superior Millennium top ends). These are definitely not
turbonormalized. They have lower compression pistons and will have the MP
boosted to around 36-38" (I'm not sure which) with an RPM limitation of 2500
on the compact hub HC-C3YR-2UF/FC8468( )-6R Hartzell props. This will
develop 320HP. The kit will include single turbos mounted up high so as to
eliminate the traditional oil scavenge pump, 70 amp alternators, newer type
fuel vapor separators, all new exhaust system, and remote oil filters. This
will give a new gross weight of 7,200 lbs. The original gross weight was
6,750, so this is a gross increase of 450 lbs and a net increase (after
installation of these heavier components) of around 400 lbs. The flight
tests are not yet completed, but Hugh Evans expects much improved
performance with a probable single engine service ceiling of around 16K' or
higher and normal cruise speeds approaching 200 KTAS. They can also install
their STCd Kit 38-11 which adds 70 gallons more fuel. This will allow the
gross weight to be approved at 7,400 lbs (as long as that extra 200 lbs.
over 7,200 is in fuel). I just may have this installed too at a later date.
4.) They are also presently installing a bolt-on turbonormalizing system on
another 500B that has low time stock engines and steel hub props. This one
has the same turbochargers as mine, but the HP is limited to stock as is the
allowed MP. Of course, this is not a boosted system. Very similar to my
turbonormalized Cessna C177 Cardinal RG, it should give sea level engine
performance into the lower flight levels. They are installing this system as
a "one-off" field approval. They hope to eventually do a serial STC on it
too if there is enough demand.
I hope this clarifies what is/will be available at Merlyn. Please call them
for particulars. Please note that I do not work for or have any financial
interest in Merlyn Products Inc. (other than the $$ I have sent them to do
this stuff on my plane).
Larry Wokral
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Larry S. Wokral wrote:
> I hope this clarifies what is/will be available at Merlyn.
Thanks for clearing that up Larry. I didn't get to spend nearly enough
time with Morris to get all the details. You mention that the 320hp
setup is for the "Shrike series" does this mean that it will only be
installed on the 500S or will it be available for the B?
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
I just spoke with Morris a couple of hours ago and he oozed knowledge about
the FLP.
He should record his ramblings so it can be converted to text and posted on
the Commander site.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:20
Subject: Re: Emergency AD
>
>
> Larry S. Wokral wrote:
>
> > I hope this clarifies what is/will be available at Merlyn.
>
> Thanks for clearing that up Larry. I didn't get to spend nearly enough
> time with Morris to get all the details. You mention that the 320hp
> setup is for the "Shrike series" does this mean that it will only be
> installed on the 500S or will it be available for the B?
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency AD |
Tom, we thought of that already, but if we recorded all of Morris' ramblings
and converted them to text, Chris would run out of disk space in no time!
Just kidding!
I actually had lunch with Morris today and heard about all the festivities &
southern hospitality I missed. We went over the emergency AD, and I'm going
through my logbooks in about 15 min. I'm pretty sure I'll be exempt. After
reading through in detail, it appears that it affects engines built between
'96 & '98, and it specifically looks like engines that were actually built
or overhauled by Lycoming (the zinc-plated bolts are a giveaway, duh, who
else but a manufacturer would go to zinc to get the huge discount).
I'll let you all know what I find out.
Cheers,
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
To: "Chris Schuermann" ;
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Emergency AD
> I just spoke with Morris a couple of hours ago and he oozed knowledge
about
> the FLP.
> He should record his ramblings so it can be converted to text and posted
on
> the Commander site.
>
> Tom...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Schuermann" <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:20
> Subject: Re: Emergency AD
>
>
> >
> >
> > Larry S. Wokral wrote:
> >
> > > I hope this clarifies what is/will be available at Merlyn.
> >
> > Thanks for clearing that up Larry. I didn't get to spend nearly enough
> > time with Morris to get all the details. You mention that the 320hp
> > setup is for the "Shrike series" does this mean that it will only be
> > installed on the 500S or will it be available for the B?
> >
> > chris
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Dettmer <rcdettmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Formation Fly-in |
Let's spread the word. Capt JimBob would probably be into it (if he's going
to OSH...) and could certainly generate some interest through the flight
group (probably get some press too...). Chris S. could put the word out on
the website as well.
We may have created a monster...a "monster" of a good idea that is.
RD
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
To: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Emergency AD
> Oh man, Sarah & I would be SO into that!!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> To: "John Vormbaum"
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Emergency AD
>
>
> > The formation flight sounds pretty cool. Some of us at the fly-in were
> > discussing the idea of a Commander formation arrival at Oshkosh...you
> know,
> > like the Mooney's and Bonanza's. We wouldn't get as many planes, but a
> > couple dozen Commanders showing up at the same time would certainly be
> > impressive, and we could all park & camp together in the Classic
> > Contemporary area by the approach end to RNY 36. Think about it...could
> be
> > fun.
> >
> > RD
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
> > To: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Emergency AD
> >
> >
> > > Thanks Randy, yeah, I just overdid it; a wedding followed by a week in
> > > Hurricane Isidore on Grand Cayman. I was just worn out, and some 24-hr.
> > cold
> > > laid me low. I really wish I could have been there, plus, it's so much
> fun
> > > to fly Andrew's plane (don't you agree?).
> > >
> > > I'll for sure fly to Dayton next year. Maybe we can do a formation
> flight
> > > (I'm turboed, I might even be able to keep up ;-).
> > >
> > > I'll be in SLO on the 12th for the day, maybe I'll see you out on the
> > ramp?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > /J
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
> > > To: "John Vormbaum"
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:38 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Emergency AD
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey John,
> > > > I was sorry to hear that you were "under the weather" (does that mean
> > > > VFR..??) when I arrived last week in Hayward. We missed you for the
> > 690B
> > > > ride across America, and at the big event. I am hoping to fly my 680F
> > out
> > > > to Dayton next year. Hope you're feeling better.
> > > >
> > > > Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ProgSearch(at)aol.com <ProgSearch(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Please help need MEI with Commander time |
Hello fellow Commander Enthusiast,
I need help. I have an associate that just purchased a 500A. He needs 25
hours of dual from an MEI with at least 1500tt and 25 hrs in a commander. He
lives near Little Rock.
Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Deborah R. Hancock <whiteslave(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 680 for sale |
Ben,
Are you aware I have a 1959 680E for sale? It is a nice airplane,
approx 400 SMOH L/R, about 7500 TTAF. IFR GPS certified. Great running
airplane.
If your interested we should talk, as I want whomever ends up with my
plane to be happy with it. I'm asking $130K.
Call me on my cell (below)
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Flying Bdog Enterprises
(949) 300-5510
radialpower(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lundborg <dltafolk(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680 for sale |
Ben,
This doesn't suprise me...Last year I called on an aircraft they had for sale
and found the owner had already sold it and these guys were just pulling things
off the net and bringing them offers...when you talk to the guy from NY
at any length you kind of get the impression you're dealing with something less
than a used car dealer. I sent them a deposit on a advertised aircraft and got
a runaround for weeks as that particular plane was no longer for sale...I took
the "N" number and found the owner...he had quite a story to tell about "United
Boston's Rep".
Good luck on your search, I have been building my complex time and in the middle
of my IFR rating so I too may enjoy the ownership of a Commander!
Also look out for the flake that has the 680 for 45,000...with "minor" registration
issues...LIKE A BANK LIEN THAT AOPA COULDN"T GET ANYWHERE WITH FOR 6
MONTHS.
Some of these guys think we have birthday cake left over from yesterday!
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Baltrusaitis
To: commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
Subject: 680 for sale
I see there is a 1957 680 for sale @
http://www.aso.com/i.aso/AdView.jsp?aircraft_id=65673
The price on this about 2 weeks ago was $109,000, now its $115,000. No reason
was given for the price increase except "that is what it is now" and there will
be no negotiations. After that conversation, I'm not going to FL to see it,
however, I am interested in any comments on this deal.
Thanks!
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TILLMAN333(at)aol.com <TILLMAN333(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 680 for sale |
The Plane is registered to Allen Reed N6819Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bow <w.bow(at)att.net> |
Folks(southern term),
I will never climb into my Commander again without looking at the upper
hinge on the entry door in a new light. One of our brothers is looking for
one and I thought I might be able to help, with a serviceable unit from
another friend. Prices are based on what the price of a new unit is,
usually it is half.
Well boys and girls, when friend #2 got the price from the TC head shed
(here is the part where you sit down), he nearly fell over. The hinge is
sold in halves. One on the door and the other on the frame. One was not
available and the other was $844.xx. This is the piece of cast metal about
4 inches long and 1 1/2 inches wide with a hole for the hinge pin in it.
I should have been a hinge builder instead of a pilot.
bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CapnSpray(at)aol.com <CapnSpray(at)aol.com> |
Thats got to be a lesson learned, everybody please spray your hinges with
CORROSION X and end the problem, THATS GOOD STUFF USE IT ON MY BOAT TOO.
JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | phil stubbs <br549phil(at)mindspring.com> |
>Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:58:08 -0400
>To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tec.com
>From: phil stubbs <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
>Subject: parts
>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:55:03 -0400
>>To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tec
>>From: phil stubbs <br549phil(at)mindspring.com>
>>Subject: parts
>>
>>...still looking for Century I, II, III or IV autopilot parts or whole
system. I f you have any you'd like to part with please write.
>>Phil Stubbs
>>560F N160K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n414c <n414c(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | America's Deteriorating Military |
----- Original Message -----
From: JLov
To: Woappa(at)aol.com ; Sushi1(at)citlink.net ; n414c(at)direcway.com
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 4:41 PM
Subject: Fwd: America's Deteriorating Military
X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:33:41 -0400
From: RHelsel684(at)aol.com
To: GoValves(at)aol.com, LBolt55(at)aol.com, VGBridges(at)cs.com,
charleyandmore(at)fortunehitech.net, WSICAF(at)aol.com, jaflynn(at)msn.com,
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JKeenan3(at)Texas.net, DrJLovejoy(at)pol.net, McTedLee(at)worldnet.att.net,
Overholt(at)esper.com
Subject: America's Deteriorating Military
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From: JohnTHeard
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 8:36:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Subject: Fwd: America's Deteriorating Military
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 07:58:07 -0400
From: "C. D. Martin" <cdm(at)utk.edu>
Subject: America's Deteriorating Military
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America's Deteriorating Military
I sat, as did millions of other Americans, and watched as our government
underwent a peaceful transition of power a year ago last January. At
first, I felt a swell of pride and patriotism as I watched George W. Bush
take his oath of office.
However, all that pride quickly vanished as I later watched William
Jefferson Clinton board Air Force One for the last time. I saw 21 Marines,
in full dress uniform with rifles, fire a 21-gun salute to the outgoing
president. It was then that I realized how far America's military had
deteriorated under Clinton.
Every last one of them missed.
--part1_110.18b917b5.2abf1367_boundary--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Reed <allen_reed2(at)hotmail.com> |
Brother Bow(another southern term)Tell your friend to try U.S. Salvage at
800-849-8692, or try Harry. Both of these are good sources,and even if Harry
can't help,he's damn fun to talk to. BIG AL
>From: Bow <w.bow(at)att.net>
>To: commandertech2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com,
>commanderchat2(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com
>Subject: FYI
>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:27:37 -0400
>
>Folks(southern term),
>
>I will never climb into my Commander again without looking at the upper
>hinge on the entry door in a new light. One of our brothers is looking for
>one and I thought I might be able to help, with a serviceable unit from
>another friend. Prices are based on what the price of a new unit is,
>usually it is half.
>
>Well boys and girls, when friend #2 got the price from the TC head shed
>(here is the part where you sit down), he nearly fell over. The hinge is
>sold in halves. One on the door and the other on the frame. One was not
>available and the other was $844.xx. This is the piece of cast metal about
>4 inches long and 1 1/2 inches wide with a hole for the hinge pin in it.
>
>I should have been a hinge builder instead of a pilot.
>
>bilbo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Schuermann <chris(at)skymaster.c2-tech.com> |
phil stubbs wrote:
>>>
>>>...still looking for Century I, II, III or IV autopilot parts or whole
>>
> system. I f you have any you'd like to part with please write.
Phil,
Century _just_ dropped that line from production, but I believe they
still support it fully. Have you contacted them?
http://www.centuryflight.com/
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tylor Hall <tylorh(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please help need MEI with Commander time |
You may want to talk to John Towner with Central Air in Kansas City. He runs
38 500B's hauling freight at night. He has a program to train pilots and they
fly with an instructor pilot on actual trips. It would be real world night
flying in the midwest. He trains people that are looking to build multi engine
time.
Tylor Hall
>I need help. I have an associate that just purchased a 500A. He needs 25 hours
of dual from an MEI with at least 1500tt and 25 hrs in a commander. He lives
near Little Rock.
>
>Any suggestions?