Commander-Archive.digest.vol-dp

November 05, 2009 - January 29, 2010



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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: AC 500S In-Flight Breakup
Date: Nov 09, 2009
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007- 029.aspx Folks, This is worth a look, just out today. The accident sequence appears to be almost identical to a sister aircraft breaking up in severe turbulence in Tasmania several years ago, ie: The wings failed in downward bending in the vicinity of the main spar section change just outboard of the engine nacelles. Steve Nott, who was killed in the accident, was the proprietor of the only Twin Commander service centre in this part of the world, his one 690A Grand Renaissance rebuild has to be seen to be believed. He owned a considerable fleet of 500S (10+), and all were kept in impeccable condition, the structural failure (as in Tasmania) was straight overload, no suggestion of a fatigue failure or any corrosion issues. Best regards, Bill Hamilton ZK-DCF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Commander that belong to Hannay Reels.
From: "joshuafrfld701" <joshuafrfld701(at)GMAIL.COM>
Date: Nov 09, 2009
Print your own perpetual calendar for any year, month or period of months. The calendar can be further customized and printed, wall calendar (http://www.thetimefactory.com). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271868#271868 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Please make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] November 11
Date: Nov 11, 2009
Hi Folks. My special issue on November 11. Thanks Nico TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/november-11.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: This is awesome and she is only 11 years old!!
Date: Nov 11, 2009
This is simply one very bright young lady!!!! Subject: This is awesome and she is only 11 years old!! What an incredibly smart young girl. She's got more intelligence than those trying to run our country. THIS SHOWS THAT HER FOLKS ARE NOT ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH!! Notice there is no Teleprompter. In fact, I'm not sure she even has a script. Enjoy the speech. Now if only we could get our supposed leaders to Step-Up and take responsibility for their actions, Maybe, just Maybe, this young lady's speech can and will have some affect Her name is...SARAH, And she is only 11 years old!! Your gonna love this young lady........ Click on the link below & Crank Up The Speakers <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHieqM1hKsg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHieqM1hKsg Please pass it on!!! God Bless America !!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: The True Definition of Globization .............
Date: Nov 12, 2009
Question: What is the truest definition of Globalization? Answer: Princess Diana's death. Question: How come? Answer : An English princess with an Egyptian boyfriend crashes in a French tunnel, driving a German car with a Dutch engine, driven by a Belgian who was drunk on Scottish whisky, followed closely by Italian Paparazzi, on Japanese motorcycles; treated by an American doctor, using Brazilian medicines. This is sent to you by a South African using American Bill Gates's technology, and you're probably reading this on your computer that uses Taiwanese chips, and a Korean monitor, assembled by Bangladeshi workers in a Singapore plant, transported by Indian truck drivers, hijacked by Indonesians, unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen, and trucked to you by Mexican illegals.... That, my friends, is true Globalization ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Some Very Nice Comments...
Dear Listers, I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists ----------- Few things in life bring more usefulness than the List. This is worth every penny! Stephen T. I have enjoyed the list for way too many years, but continue to get closer to flying my project with the help of listers. C.L. Thanks for this List. It's been a great source of encouragement and information. Arden A. Great service! Gerald T. It's always interesting reading the lists and I've gotten some good help from the issues and answers there. Steve T. Been a member of the List for 12 years. Keep up the good work. John H. Great Site! Harry M. Great source of information... Martin H. Thanks for providing this great service! Jeff P. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C. This is a wonderful resource! Warren H. This is what inernet was meant for, sharing information and experience. Michael W. Thanks for making such a good list! Fred D. Thanks for running a great service! Michael F. I really appreciate it. Dan H. Thanks for the great service. Michael L. Thanks for maintaining this great resource. John C. Your sites have been a great resourses and an introduction to many competent aircraft designers and fabricators. Jon M. Thanks for all that you do to maintain the Matronics forums and for the personal help that you have been to me in answering my questions regarding the use of the forums. William B. [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. Ralph C. The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Dear Carla
Date: Nov 13, 2009
A concerned friend asked me about this report by Lou Dobbs <http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv> http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888/name/ftc-vi26.wmv Here is my response. Nico Dear Carla, Thank you for the good wishes and your prayers. They are truly appreciated. I am afraid that is true. Lou Dobbs resigned from CNN because he became disillusioned with that network's liberal position. It took him nearly 30 years, but finally he came to see the light. I remember this legislation when it was announced. Fortunately, it was just a proposed law and it hasn't gotten traction, yet. What is worrisome is that some lawmakers would even propose that. What are we paying for when we send people up to Washington to represent us? It's a shame and you recognized it right away. One mistake conservatives are prone to make in these times is to think that those who supported and still support the administration would come to see the light and turn against these crazy policy proposals. While that would be true for the majority of supporters, those in power and with the power to make these changes, are checking off each crazy idea after crazy idea as "done" and accomplished. Anarchy, poverty, disarray, and tyranny are their goals because then they can step in and claim that capitalism and the U.S. Constitution do not work and they will save the United States with a new deal: communism. So, they create the problems and then ride into town with their "savior" at the helm. Perhaps you remember what I told Rush Limbaugh long before this ever started to become evident and I wrote about these exact things in 2003 when I debated a liberal. I tend to look at the positive side of things, however, having been educated by the history in the Bible, among other things. Who would have given Joseph any hope of survival when his brothers sold him into slavery? I mean they even manufactured evidence to suggest that he was killed, that's how sure his brothers were that he was a goner. Who would have given the thief on the cross a snowball's hope of salvation if the conversation with Jesus wasn't overheard? These things happen for a distinct purpose and our faith in God alone lights the way forward. Why did 911 occur? Among other reasons, the majority of which we cannot even comprehend, is that it struck a chasm between moderate Muslims and fanatical ones just as it did among conservatives and liberals worldwide. It casts those who are not Muslims at heart and who take the commandments of the Koran figuratively, against the ones who take those commandments literally just as it casts those Americans who are not Americans at heart and who take the precepts of the Constitution figuratively against those who take them literally -- conservatives. Sura 9 in the Koran clearly teaches that Muslims are required to cause great discomfort to kufars (unbelievers, that's you and me) and if they do not repent and convert to Islam, that they be killed. These Koranic views are confirmed by the Hadith, records of Mohammad's utterances, by centuries of killings and genocide of Jews and Christians in particular, believing that they are the ones who falsified Islam to produce the Bible. They believe that Adam, Moses, Abraham, and Jesus were true Muslims and the Scriptures are falsifications of Islam. That theory of theirs has been solidly debunked by scholars over many centuries. But it doesn't matter what scholars say, it's important what the Jihadist believes when he has his knife at your throat. To keep their people under this shroud of ignorance, they discourage education, which is why their countries look the way they do. The majority of the people of this country are asleep as far as these things are concerned. Without Obama being elected president, they would never have been awakened. With both houses of Congress and the presidency in their power, they see that their stars have aligned and they should have healthcare in place now or it will never happen. Remember, healthcare reform is not about healthcare, it's about taking control of the United States and with all the controls that they have built into this proposed legislation, they can control what you eat, what you wear, where you go, when you go there, what you say, how you act and when you act - every aspect of your life can be concocted to impact healthcare in some fashion. If you do not support the state they can withhold medical treatment from you or your family or tax you more than those who do support the state. Since FDR they have waited for this moment. It is true that not at any time in this country's history did the forces align so perfectly to destroy this country. The last bastion that could have prevented this from progressing as far as it did was the media, the watchdogs of the people and once they aligned themselves with the perpetrators, your house is open to be ransacked, your children raped and your family delivered into slavery for hundreds of years. They hate this country and its Constitution with passion, akin to the hate Muslims have for Jews and Christians, which hate is a common bond we will ignore at our own peril. Just as Muslims believe that eternal bliss awaits those who are martyred in the service of Allah, so these people believe that eternal bliss awaits them, too, if they kill off the Constitution and enslave you and me. I will send you a video clip that puts it in perspective and quotes names and facts. Just as 911 ignited a purge of conscience for Muslims, so Obama's election and his tyrannical crusade will be a purge of conscience for the American people. I know we will separate ourselves from our enemies from within and rise above all this peacefully, and I mean without bloodshed, which we can call a peaceful revolution, provided we are able to protect the three security guards of our Constitution: the ballot box, the courts, and our liberty. Sorry for the long rant. If I get started... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cactus 1549 Hudson River Landing
Date: Nov 13, 2009
From: "Steele, Bob" <Bob.Steele(at)kzf.com>
I apologize if this has been posted here before - but this is the first I have seen of it and it is amazing what the techno folks in our world can do today. http://www.exosphere3d.com/pubwww/pages/project_gallery/cactus_1549_huds on_river.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 14, 2009
Clear DayHello, Had a small hydraulic line in the left wheel well break a while back. Had to land with no brakes, flaps, or steering. Got that fixed. Flew plane to the A&P location for an annual. Test flight after the annual, hydraulic leak in either the up or down line to the right main gear, actual line hasn't been isolated yet. My question...both hydraulic lines, on different side of the plane (comletely different lines also) have broken within 2 hours of flying time. Is there any hydraulic line history or trend for Commanders whereby hydraulic lines start to fail at the same time. In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Had to have new engine mounts and wastegates replaced during the annual. Paul Gendron in Ft Lauderdale, FL did a good job with the work. Corrosion on the mounts and manual wastegates were out of shape and quite thin at the elbows. Plane has been down over 4 months and now this hydraulic line problem. Ray Mansfield N91ES 850-217-5185 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 14, 2009
Clear DayMy hydraulic failure was due to a badly made replacement hard line in the right wheel well which put creases in the outside portion of a 90 degree curve. Tom formally C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Mansfield To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 5:42 PM Subject: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Hello, Had a small hydraulic line in the left wheel well break a while back. Had to land with no brakes, flaps, or steering. Got that fixed. Flew plane to the A&P location for an annual. Test flight after the annual, hydraulic leak in either the up or down line to the right main gear, actual line hasn't been isolated yet. My question...both hydraulic lines, on different side of the plane (comletely different lines also) have broken within 2 hours of flying time. Is there any hydraulic line history or trend for Commanders whereby hydraulic lines start to fail at the same time. In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Had to have new engine mounts and wastegates replaced during the annual. Paul Gendron in Ft Lauderdale, FL did a good job with the work. Corrosion on the mounts and manual wastegates were out of shape and quite thin at the elbows. Plane has been down over 4 months and now this hydraulic line problem. Ray Mansfield N91ES 850-217-5185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Ray Mansfield wrote: > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of > flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Ray, If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-taker of a complex old airframe. good luck, chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Donald Falik <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
I can relate a similar issue with my 500S.- I had one line fail due to ch afing in the baggage area.- Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment.- Shortly thereafter another line failed just be yond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous r epair.=0ADon=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Chris < cschuerm(at)cox.net>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line t>=0A=0ARay Mansfield wrote:=0A> In other words, is this going to be a prob lem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have e xperience here?=0A=0ARay,=0AIf the line failed right at the flare, it was p robably due to improper fabrication.- I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a differen t flare angle than copper lines.- The tool you'll find at your local hard ware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an ang le for aluminum.- This causes cracks to form.=0AYou also mentioned that y ou've been repairing corrosion in other areas.- The aluminum used for air craft lines is fairly prone to corrosion.- It also "work hardens" from vi bration and becomes more brittle with age.- You may simply be dealing wit h aging aircraft issues.- During my commander restoration, we ended up ha ving to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons .- I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especia lly the ones exposed in the nacelles.- Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing.- If the lines are allo wed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigu e cracking.- Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for co rrosion pitting.- Even small pits lead to failure.- Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and ad dress those areas immediately.- It's all just part of being the care-taker of a complex old airframe.=0A=0Agood luck,=0Achris - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========================0A ==================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future. Tom Formally C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Falik To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Ray Mansfield wrote: > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Ray, If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; &n============== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
I am surprised to find out that the hydraulic lines in a aero commander are aluminum. I would have thought that 1000psi to 3000psi lines would be steel or SS. I manufacturer equipment that runs in this pressure range and we always use SS 1/4" tubing and compression fittings. It is easy to work, bends will with a tubing bender, would resist corrosion and lots of other good features. Would it be a big deal with the FAA to change to SS tubing? I am not an A&P. Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Donald Falik wrote: > I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. > Don > > From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > Ray Mansfield wrote: > > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? > > Ray, > If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. > You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectricwww.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; &n============= = > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Tylor Hall wrote: > I am surprised to find out that the hydraulic lines in a aero > commander are aluminum. I would have thought that 1000psi to 3000psi > lines would be steel or SS. I think I just detected Old Bob cringe at the thought of adding a couple hundred pounds of weight to an airplane :-) Stainless and carbon steel are both occasionally used, but aluminum is typical for light GA aircraft. Converting a Commander to all stainless lines would add an enormous amount of weight. chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
The "hard lines" in all the Commanders are becoming the number one hyd iss ue. Inspect all of them and dont kid yourself. If they have any corrosio n, change them out. ALSO!!You landed with no brakes or steering and pulled it off, good on you ! It is not necessary do that. PLEASE, PLEASE EVERYONE, LISTEN UP. AS SO ON AS THE ENGINS ARE RUNNING PULL THE AUX HYD CIRCUIT BREAKER. DOING THIS ASSURES THAT THERE WILL BE ENOUGH FLUID FOR BRAKES AND STEERING. PLEASE, LETS STOP BEING STUBBORN ABOUT THIS BEFORE ANOTHER AIRPLANE IS LOST!! Th anks and good job with the landing!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Ray Mansfield <hcourier(at)cox.net> Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 5:42 pm Subject: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Hello, Had a small hydraulic line in the left wheel well break a while back. Had to land with no brakes, flaps, or steering. Got that fixed. Flew plane to the A&P location for an annual. Test flight after the annual, hydraul ic leak in either the up or down line to the right main gear, actual line hasn't been isolated yet. My question...both hydraulic lines, on differe nt side of the plane (comletely different lines also) have broken within 2 hours of flying time. Is there any hydraulic line history or trend for Commanders whereby hydraulic lines start to fail at the same time. In ot her words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or ne xt years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Had to have new engine mounts and wastegates replaced during the annual. Paul Gendron in Ft Lauderdale, FL did a good job with the work. Corrosi on on the mounts and manual wastegates were out of shape and quite thin at the elbows. Plane has been down over 4 months and now this hydraulic li ne problem. Ray Mansfield N91ES 850-217-5185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Date: Nov 15, 2009
We save a whole bunch when we go to modern electronics. SS tubing is not that heavy. I will go look it up. There is a question. How much tubing is in a Twin Commander? How much tubing can we remove when the oil pressure and fuel pressure lines come out and are replace with electrical remote sensors? Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Chris wrote: > > Tylor Hall wrote: >> I am surprised to find out that the hydraulic lines in a aero commander are aluminum. I would have thought that 1000psi to 3000psi lines would be steel or SS. > > I think I just detected Old Bob cringe at the thought of adding a couple hundred pounds of weight to an airplane :-) > Stainless and carbon steel are both occasionally used, but aluminum is typical for light GA aircraft. Converting a Commander to all stainless lines would add an enormous amount of weight. > chris > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Donald Falik <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol.- The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the po int that it was chafing against an adjacent line.- The second failure sho rtly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just d umped the fluid outside along the fuselage.- That was the one due to an i mproper flare.- The mechanic showed it to me.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________ ___________________=0AFrom: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>=0ATo: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM=0A Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems=0A=0A=0AIn a ddition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the bag gage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pis sed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle-which dissolved all the insul ation on most of the wires.- I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle.- Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a-Skydrol proof-sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future.=0A-=0ATom=0AFormally C-GISS=0A680FLP (Mr.RP M)=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Donald Falik =0A>To: commander- list(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems=0A>=0A>=0A>I can rela te a similar issue with my 500S.- I had one line fail due to chafing in t he baggage area.- Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the bagga ge compartment.- Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the r epaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair.=0A> Don=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Chris <cschu erm(at)cox.net>=0A>To: commander-list(at)matronics.com=0A>Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line p t>=0A>=0A>Ray Mansfield wrote:=0A>> In other words, is this going to be a p roblem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone hav e experience here?=0A>=0A>Ray,=0A>If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication.- I've seen many cases where so meone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a di fferent flare angle than copper lines.- The tool you'll find at your loca l hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum.- This causes cracks to form.=0A>You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas.- The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion.- It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age.- You may simply be deal ing with aging aircraft issues.- During my commander restoration, we ende d up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons.- I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles.- Make sure they are well sup ported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing.- If the lines a re allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking.- Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting.- Even small pits lead to failure.- Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately.- It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; - - - - - - - - - - &n====== ==========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> >href="http://www.buildersboo ks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.ho mebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">h ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matro nics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. per foot. 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty weight. :) Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: > Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. > > From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future. > > Tom > Formally C-GISS > 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Falik > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. > Don > > From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > Ray Mansfield wrote: > > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? > > Ray, > If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. > You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; &n============= = > > > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http ://forums.matronics.com > > www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator ?Commander-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://htt================ ======= > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Tylor Hall wrote: > SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. > per foot. Tylor, Can you provide a reference for those numbers please? My materials quick reference guide shows that stainless tube is aprox. three times *heavier* than aluminum. chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Two charts that show up in a quick search: http://www.webcoindustries.com/tubing/stainless/weight.cfm http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/Aluminum-tubing-round-6061-t6.htm Apples to oranges, but similar OD and thickness (1/4" and .035) gives .028 lbs/ft for aluminum and .082 for stainless. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Chris Sent: Sun 11/15/2009 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Tylor Hall wrote: > SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. > per foot. Tylor, Can you provide a reference for those numbers please? My materials quick reference guide shows that stainless tube is aprox. three times *heavier* than aluminum. chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-153-scs.pdf 6061 is a medium strength alloy used for most general-purpose applications. it is more corrosion-resistant than 2024. It is also easier to weld than 2024. 2024 is a high-strength alloy most often used in aerospace applications. It has a yield strength that is roughly 10 percent higher and an ultimate strength of roughly 50 percent higher than 6061. I got this quote off Onlinemetals.com. I did not find a difference in the weight of 6061 VS 2024. Does any one have the right alloy? Looks like the 2024 is the aerospace version? Chris or JimBob, could an owner substitute SS for Alum? I buy it in 20' lengths. Tylor Hall > > Two charts that show up in a quick search: > > http://www.webcoindustries.com/tubing/stainless/weight.cfm > http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/Aluminum-tubing-round-6061-t6.htm > > Apples to oranges, but similar OD and thickness (1/4" and .035) gives .028 lbs/ft for aluminum and .082 for stainless. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Chris > Sent: Sun 11/15/2009 10:34 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > Tylor Hall wrote: >> SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. >> per foot. > > Tylor, > Can you provide a reference for those numbers please? My materials > quick reference guide shows that stainless tube is aprox. three times > *heavier* than aluminum. > > chris > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Tylor Hall wrote: > <http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-153-scs.pdf> > I did not find a difference in the weight of 6061 VS 2024. Does any > one have the right alloy? Looks like the 2024 is the aerospace > version? Chris or JimBob, could an owner substitute SS for Alum? Tylor, A lot of my books are still packed in boxes from moving so I don't have much definitive information available. I checked AC43.13 and it doesn't mention anything about substitution. Actually, the version I have doesn't mention stainless at all although I know there is an aircraft approved 316L SS tube. There are several different alloys used for alum. 3003-0 is used for low pressure applications (mainly instrument stuff). 5052-0 is medium pressure (hydraulic, fuel, oil). I think the high pressure apps used 2024-T3 (which is a typical alloy for aircraft structures and skin) For my two cents, I'd replace aluminum with aluminum. If you're in a corrosive environment, paint the tubes with zinc chromate. chris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
Tylor, Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have something to do with it, right? Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. per foot. 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty weight. :) Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. _____ From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future. Tom Formally C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Falik <mailto:dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. Don _____ From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Ray Mansfield wrote: > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Ray, If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.homebuip; <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> &n============== <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma tronics.com www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator?Com mander-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://htt======================= <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
NICO, NO, SS is twice the weight per foot as Aluminum. .080 VS .0453 Typo error. Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:07 PM, nico css wrote: > Tylor, > Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have something to do with it, right? > Nico > > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. per foot. > 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty weight. > :) > Tylor Hall > > On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: > >> Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. >> >> From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems >> >> In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future. >> >> Tom >> Formally C-GISS >> 680FLP (Mr.RPM) >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Donald Falik >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems >> >> I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. >> Don >> >> From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems >> >> >> Ray Mansfield wrote: >> > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? >> >> Ray, >> If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. >> You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; &n============= = >> >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http ://forums.matronics.com >> >> www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator ?Commander-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://htt================ ======= >> >> >> >> color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
OK, thanks, Tylor. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems NICO, NO, SS is twice the weight per foot as Aluminum. .080 VS .0453 Typo error. Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:07 PM, nico css wrote: Tylor, Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have something to do with it, right? Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. per foot. 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty weight. :) Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. _____ From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other leaks that may occur in the future. Tom Formally C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Falik <mailto:dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. Don _____ From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Ray Mansfield wrote: > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Ray, If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.homebuip; <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> &n============== <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com ">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com ">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator?Com mander-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://htt======================= <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> <http://forums.matronics.com/> color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Date: Nov 15, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Aluminum is just fine as a replacement. After all original lasted 40+ yea rs!! -----Original Message----- From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 3:07 pm Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Tylor, Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have some thing to do with it, right? Nico From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor Hall Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. per foot. 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty wei ght. :) Tylor Hall On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering th e baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved all th e insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the entire bund le in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from any other lea ks that may occur in the future. Tom Formally C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Falik Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to cha fing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just bey ond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a previous repair. Don From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems Ray Mansfield wrote: > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of fligh t or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? Ray, If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper fab rication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for aluminum. This causes cracks to form. You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It al so "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my commander re storation, we ended up having to replace virtually every hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps are not loose or missing . If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean the lines carefully with scotc h bright and look for corrosion pitting. Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are chaffing (usually due to somethin g coming loose) and address those areas immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; &n============ == href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http: //forums.matronics.com www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersb ooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List" rel=nofoll ow target=_blank>http://htt=============== ======== color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com www.aeroelectric.com ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contributions Down By 21%...
Dear Listers, As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time as well. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments, make a modest contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au
Date: Nov 16, 2009
Subject: Re: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems
Folks, Just make certain you use the right grade of Al. pipe. If anybody wants to use stainless, the grades are as used in larger aircraft, but I would also suggest that, where possible, you use 1.5 degree taper compression fittings from Stratoflex or Aeroquip, again as per what has been used on 3000 psi systems since the '60's. I can guarantee you will never have a leaking union at 1500psi ever again. The shortcoming of the AN (37.5 degree) or SAE (45 degree as per autos) is that first surfaces to touch are the sealing surfaces, which works OK with soft material (most Al, annealed copper) but not so good steel, stainless or otherwise. Re. corrosion of Al tubes, it is not always from the outside in, in my 500A, I have had two failures (pinholes) in low pressure return lines, at the fluid/air interface where a line is not always either full or empty. I would also suggest that most flexibles be replaced with teflon hose, ALL my fuel lines are stainless/teflon, overkill maybe, but they will never fail in normal service. This does not even require a 337 to do the substitute, they all meet the appropriate Mil. Spec ( or the new standard) for an application where rubber hose is used. In reality, Aero Commanders have had quite a few hydraulic problems over the years, we should be careful of the rose colored glasses, and even more careful with thorough routine inspections. Here's one for thought, how far should you go in dismantling where there is no sign of failure, to inspect under Adel clamps, or fretting under a a union nut. I don't know the answer, I will watch the discussion with much interest. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. > yourtcfg(at)aol.com wrote: > > Aluminum is just fine as a replacement. After all original lasted 40+ > years!! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 3:07 pm > Subject: RE: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > Tylor, > Aluminum is 5 times heavier than SS? I guess wall-thickness will have > something to do with it, right? > Nico > > > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tylor > Hall > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:23 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > SS 1/4" tubing is 0.08 lbs per foot, and Alum 1/4" tubing is 0.453 lb. > per foot. > 300 feet of tubing exchanged out would be 13.50 lb. added to the empty > weight. > :) > Tylor Hall > > > > On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Donald Falik wrote: > > > > > > Thank goodness it wasn't Skydrol. The failure of the line in the > baggage compartment was difficult to find because it was just a pin hole > at the point that it was chafing against an adjacent line. The second > failure shortly thereafter was out side of the compartment in the wing > root and just dumped the fluid outside along the fuselage. That was the > one due to an improper flare. The mechanic showed it to me. > > > > From: Tom Fisher <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:00:17 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > In addition to the last failure two years before that the line entering > the baggage compartment from the right wing root ruptured at a chaff > point and pissed Skydrol all over the main wiring bundle which dissolved > all the insulation on most of the wires. I had to replace almost all > the wires in the bundle. Once that was done and paid for I wrapped the > entire bundle in a Skydrol proof sheath so they would be protected from > any other leaks that may occur in the future. > > Tom > Formally C-GISS > 680FLP (Mr.RPM) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Donald Falik > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > > I can relate a similar issue with my 500S. I had one line fail due to > chafing in the baggage area. Boy was that a mess when the fluid erupted > in the baggage compartment. Shortly thereafter another line failed just > beyond the repaired one and it was due to an improper flare from a > previous repair. > Don > > > > From: Chris <cschuerm(at)cox.net> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 9:15:52 AM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC-680FLP Hydraulic line problems > > > Ray Mansfield wrote: > > In other words, is this going to be a problem in the next hours of > flight or next years of flight. Does anyone have experience here? > > Ray, > If the line failed right at the flare, it was probably due to improper > fabrication. I've seen many cases where someone has made a line and > didn't know that aircraft aluminum lines use a different flare angle > than copper lines. The tool you'll find at your local hardware store to > flare line ends is for copper only and makes too sharp an angle for > aluminum. This causes cracks to form. > You also mentioned that you've been repairing corrosion in other areas. > The aluminum used for aircraft lines is fairly prone to corrosion. It > also "work hardens" from vibration and becomes more brittle with age. > You may simply be dealing with aging aircraft issues. During my > commander restoration, we ended up having to replace virtually every > hard line in the airplane for these reasons. I'd suggest a very careful > inspection of all your hard lines - especially the ones exposed in the > nacelles. Make sure they are well supported and that the adel clamps > are not loose or missing. If the lines are allowed to vibrate due to > old, worn-out supports, that can lead to rapid fatigue cracking. Clean > the lines carefully with scotch bright and look for corrosion pitting. > Even small pits lead to failure. Look for any areas where the lines are > chaffing (usually due to something coming loose) and address those areas > immediately. It's all just part of being the care-talectric > www.aeroelttp://www.buildersbooks.com/" tHELP www.homebuip; > &n============== > > > > > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic > s.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://f > orums.matronics.com > > www.aerow.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow > target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matronronics.com/Navigator? > Commander-List" rel=nofollow > target=_blank>http://htt======================= > > > > > color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cont > ribution > ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron > ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > www.aeroelectric.com > ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cont > ribution > ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matron > ics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > > > =================================== > - > -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- > -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > - > -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on > -= the Contribution link below to find out more about > -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided > -= by: > -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com > -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com > -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com > - > -= List Contribution Web Site: > - > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > - > -= Thank you for your generous support! > - > -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > - > -=========================================================== > -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - > -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse > -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, > -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > -= Photoshare, and much much more: > - > -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > - > -=========================================================== > -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! > - > -= --> http://forums.matronics.com > - > -=========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Storm Clouds
Date: Nov 16, 2009
I just felt like saying it. <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/storm-clouds.html> TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Unexpected humor
Date: Nov 16, 2009
For those of you who haven't seen this on AvWeb. Apparently the Gators' win was totally unexpected and inflicted quite a bit of damage on the Bulldogs' ego. Hence the response. Nico Short Final On a recent trip in my Cirrus from KSAV to KPDK, I had this exchange with Atlanta Approach. (This was right after the FL-GA football game where the Gators won ... again.) ATL: "N267CP, you are cleared to PDK via the TRBOW8 arrival. Proceed direct from present position to TRBOW." N267CP (me) : "N267CP cleared direct TRBOW for the TRBOW8. Are you sure that shouldn't be renamed TEBOW for the beating that your Bulldogs took?" ATL: "N267CP, one more remark about the beatdown, and I will amend your clearance to IAH, LAX direct PDK!" N267CP "N267CP O.K. TRBOW8 it is!" ATL: "Smart man." Steve King via e-mail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Interview
Date: Nov 17, 2009
A man is applying to join the Police force. The sergeant doing the interview says: "Your qualifications all look good, but there is an attitude suitability test that you must take before you can be accepted." Then, sliding a pistol across the desk, he says: "Take this pistol and go out and shoot six illegal immigrants, six drug dealers, six Muslim extremists, and a rabbit. " "Why the rabbit?" "I like your attitude!" says the sergeant. "You're hired!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Interview
Date: Nov 17, 2009
Walt, I don't know exactly where this came from, but it's pretty good. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:04 PM Subject: Commander-List: Interview ~$Normal.dot A man is applying to join the Police force. The sergeant doing the interview says: "Your qualifications all look good, but there is an attitude suitability test that you must take before you can be accepted." Then, sliding a pistol across the desk, he says: "Take this pistol and go out and shoot six illegal immigrants, six drug dealers, six Muslim extremists, and a rabbit. " "Why the rabbit?" "I like your attitude!" says the sergeant. "You're hired!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim Communities
develop the compass? Actually, no. The Chinese did. I found this interesting... I didn't know he was Muslim. Too bad some of the things he says are just plain incorrect. For example, he says at 2:32 in the clip, "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass..." Um... just hold on a second, the Chinese developed the compass; they aren't Muslim, they are Daoist (Taoist). I guess you were misinformed, Mr President. Oh well. Here's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28 God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 520 PROJECT
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI KIDS/I have run on to a pretty nice 520. Not flown in ten years but ha ngared the entire time. Missing logs, 400 hr , three blade props with log s. The airplane was being restore and much good work has been done. Need s finishes. Paint is attractive and presentable. Interior has some missi ng components . No radios. The airplane had upper mid time engines. It is clean and would make a nice project for some one. I think 30K will bu y it, the props are worth 15K. jb ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim
Communities develop the compass? Actually, no. The Chinese did.
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
simply amazing. jb -----Original Message----- From: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:33 am Subject: Commander-List: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim Communities develop the compass? Actually, no. The Chinese did. andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> I found this interesting... I didn't know he was Muslim. Too bad some of the hings he says are just plain incorrect. For example, he says at 2:32 in th e lip, "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of lgebra, our magnetic compass..." m... just hold on a second, the Chinese developed the compass; they aren't uslim, they are Daoist (Taoist). I guess you were misinformed, Mr Presiden t. h well. ere's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28 od bless, ndrew ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 520 PROJECT
From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Which one is it? Where is it located? -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:08:54 Subject: Commander-List: 520 PROJECT HI KIDS/I have run on to a pretty nice 520. Not fl own in ten years but hangared the entire time. Missing logs, 400 hr , three blade props with logs. The a irplane was being restore and much good work has been d one. Needs finishes. Paint is attractive and presentabl e. Interior has some missing components . No radios. The airplane had upper mid time engines. It is c lean and would make a nice project for some one. I think 30K will buy it, the props are worth 15K. j b ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 520 PROJECT
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Just what I was about to ask ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 520 PROJECT Which one is it? Where is it located? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:08:54 -0500 To: Subject: Commander-List: 520 PROJECT HI KIDS/I have run on to a pretty nice 520. Not flown in ten years but hangared the entire time. Missing logs, 400 hr , three blade props with logs. The airplane was being restore and much good work has been done. Needs finishes. Paint is attractive and presentable. Interior has some missing components . No radios. The airplane had upper mid time engines. It is clean and would make a nice project for some one. I think 30K will buy it, the props are worth 15K. jb =B7~=89=B2,=03pr=89=AC=D3}=03=A2z=C1=AE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "STW" <steve2(at)sover.net>
Subject: Epistemology
Date: Nov 18, 2009
I just got back from the first vacation in several years. From Vermont, to Brooklyn, through West Virginia to Kentucky, picked up a couple year old Dyna SuperGlide, down through Tennesee and Alabama to show my wife a beautiful part of the country she'd never been to. Made it out as far as Key West. My first American bike and I'm impressed as hell with the quality of the build and the competance of the machine. Six speeds, fuel injection, incredible torque, and very good handling. Plus for the first time really, my wife can actually be comfortable. I still love Moto Guzzi, and Triumph is pretty good, but we both wanted to buy American this time. (Braking is just ok, but I can fix that.) Back hard at it now, working on these crazy instrument approach obstacle surveys. But really good to be out of touch from politics and the news for a while. I don't know how you guys keep at it day after day. Folks, I'm taking a break from the list for a while rather than stir up a hornet's nest responding to the ridiculus crap that keeps washing in over the transom. Checking the list is supposed to be a nice break from a busy day working my ass off, and to provide a good place for information about airplanes. I can stand the heat, but I don't think its healthy to stay in this kitchen. I can't keep my mouth shut when what is demonstrably false is presented as fact. (Honest! I double dog dare you to fact check a fraction of what is being said in the news, in email, in books.... and what you're repeating.) It's a damn shame conservatism is throwing it's intellectuals overboard in a rush to stoke seething popular passion. We need genuine conservatism. But when the faithful reporting of truth is abandoned, what has become of conservatism will continue to be marginalized. I hold no malice toward anyone here. Be well. Steve Welebny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Epistemology
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Nice bike, Steve. How would you fix the braking? Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of STW Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:37 AM Subject: Commander-List: Epistemology I just got back from the first vacation in several years. From Vermont, to Brooklyn, through West Virginia to Kentucky, picked up a couple year old Dyna SuperGlide, down through Tennesee and Alabama to show my wife a beautiful part of the country she'd never been to. Made it out as far as Key West. My first American bike and I'm impressed as hell with the quality of the build and the competance of the machine. Six speeds, fuel injection, incredible torque, and very good handling. Plus for the first time really, my wife can actually be comfortable. I still love Moto Guzzi, and Triumph is pretty good, but we both wanted to buy American this time. (Braking is just ok, but I can fix that.) Back hard at it now, working on these crazy instrument approach obstacle surveys. But really good to be out of touch from politics and the news for a while. I don't know how you guys keep at it day after day. Folks, I'm taking a break from the list for a while rather than stir up a hornet's nest responding to the ridiculus crap that keeps washing in over the transom. Checking the list is supposed to be a nice break from a busy day working my ass off, and to provide a good place for information about airplanes. I can stand the heat, but I don't think its healthy to stay in this kitchen. I can't keep my mouth shut when what is demonstrably false is presented as fact. (Honest! I double dog dare you to fact check a fraction of what is being said in the news, in email, in books.... and what you're repeating.) It's a damn shame conservatism is throwing it's intellectuals overboard in a rush to stoke seething popular passion. We need genuine conservatism. But when the faithful reporting of truth is abandoned, what has become of conservatism will continue to be marginalized. I hold no malice toward anyone here. Be well. Steve Welebny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim
Communi... Bottom line ! Obama is a socialist that wants to be the THE FIRST RULER of THE NEW WORLD ORDER ! This idiot is going to ruin this country if we allow it to happen ! If we don`t vote them out this next go around , this country will fade as we have known it and it will take drastic measures to get it turned around if ever. Gil In a message dated 11/18/2009 10:23:21 A.M. Central America Standard, yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes: simply amazing. jb -----Original Message----- From: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:33 am Subject: Commander-List: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim Communities develop the compass? Actually, no. The Chinese did. <_andrew.bridget(at)telus.net_ (mailto:andrew.bridget(at)telus.net) > I found this interesting... I didn't know he was Muslim. Too bad some of the things he says are just plain incorrect. For example, he says at 2:32 in the clip, "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass..." Um... just hold on a second, the Chinese developed the compass; they aren't Muslim, they are Daoist (Taoist). I guess you were misinformed, Mr President. Oh well. Here's the clip: _http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28) God bless, Andrew =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ==================================== tp://forums.matronics.com ==================================== (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim
Communi... If we don`t know what he is by now we have a real problem . Nothing that he does surprises me. Just look at how he and Holder are going to try the 9/11 gang. I can`t believe that so many so called Americans can support this ------=-----. In a message dated 11/18/2009 10:23:21 A.M. Central America Standard, yourtcfg(at)aol.com writes: simply amazing. jb -----Original Message----- From: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 5:33 am Subject: Commander-List: Obama - Muslim? And did Innovation in the Muslim Communities develop the compass? Actually, no. The Chinese did. <_andrew.bridget(at)telus.net_ (mailto:andrew.bridget(at)telus.net) > I found this interesting... I didn't know he was Muslim. Too bad some of the things he says are just plain incorrect. For example, he says at 2:32 in the clip, "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass..." Um... just hold on a second, the Chinese developed the compass; they aren't Muslim, they are Daoist (Taoist). I guess you were misinformed, Mr President. Oh well. Here's the clip: _http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28) God bless, Andrew =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ==================================== tp://forums.matronics.com ==================================== (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 520 PROJECT
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
It is in a hangar in Hillsboro OR. jb -----Original Message----- From: BertBerry1(at)aol.com Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 8:39 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: 520 PROJECT Which one is it? Where is it located? From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:08:54 -0500 Subject: Commander-List: 520 PROJECT HI KIDS/I have run on to a pretty nice 520. Not flown in ten years but ha ngared the entire time. Missing logs, 400 hr , three blade props with log s. The airplane was being restore and much good work has been done. Need s finishes. Paint is attractive and presentable. Interior has some missi ng components . No radios. The airplane had upper mid time engines. It is clean and would make a nice project for some one. I think 30K will bu y it, the props are worth 15K. jb ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Builders Warehouse Scam!!!!!
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Beware!!!!!!!!!! Please warn ALL your Male Friends .. This can turn out very Ugly. !!! A warning for all men who may be regular Builders Warehouse customers. Over the last month I became a victim of a clever scam while out shopping. Simply going out to get supplies has turned out to be quite traumatic. Don't be naive enough to think it couldn't happen to you or your friends. Here's how the scam works: Two very hot girls come over to your car as you are packing your shopping into the trunk . They both start wiping your windshield with a rag with their breasts almost falling out of their skimpy T-shirts. It is impossible not to look. When you thank them and offer them a tip, they say 'No' and instead ask you for a ride to KFC. You agree and they get in the back seat. On the way, they start undressing. Then one of them climbs over into the front seat and starts crawling all over you, while the other one steals your wallet. I had my wallet stolen July 4th, 9th, 10th, twice on the 15th, 17th, 20th, 24th & 29th. Also August 1st, 4th, twice on the 8th, three times last Saturday and very likely again this upcoming weekend. So tell your friends to be careful. P.S. Mr Price has wallets on sale @ $ 19.99 each. <http://www.incredimail.com/?id=604003&rui=112255330> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Builders Warehouse Scam!!!!!
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Send them my way. ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'nico' Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Commander-List: Builders Warehouse Scam!!!!! Beware!!!!!!!!!! Please warn ALL your Male Friends .. This can turn out very Ugly. !!! A warning for all men who may be regular Builders Warehouse customers. Over the last month I became a victim of a clever scam while out shopping. Simply going out to get supplies has turned out to be quite traumatic. Don't be naive enough to think it couldn't happen to you or your friends. Here's how the scam works: Two very hot girls come over to your car as you are packing your shopping into the trunk . They both start wiping your windshield with a rag with their breasts almost falling out of their skimpy T-shirts. It is impossible not to look. When you thank them and offer them a tip, they say 'No' and instead ask you for a ride to KFC. You agree and they get in the back seat. On the way, they start undressing. Then one of them climbs over into the front seat and starts crawling all over you, while the other one steals your wallet. I had my wallet stolen July 4th, 9th, 10th, twice on the 15th, 17th, 20th, 24th & 29th. Also August 1st, 4th, twice on the 8th, three times last Saturday and very likely again this upcoming weekend. So tell your friends to be careful. P.S. Mr Price has wallets on sale @ $ 19.99 each. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recognize any
one?
From: "Peter Bichier" <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Hey Captain, Have you being in your town hall meetings lately? So are you for or against the "improvements" of your home base? $ 10 Millions eh?... http://columbian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091118/BIZ01/711189979/-1/businesslocal&frompost=1 Funny how that happens, with 79 hangars and only ONE twin engine, they decided to include 222JS in the picture! I bet that "Irukandji" is not too happy with your GSO-480s... by the way this made today's AOPA's "Aviation eBrief" Hope you and Sue are doing great and let us know what you all decide! take care, -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273783#273783 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Riskless Society
Date: Nov 19, 2009
I wrote about a riskless society. Check it out: TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/riskless-society.html> Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recognize
any one?
Date: Nov 19, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI PETER.Yep, I am all over it. Been to about 100 meetings!! hope all is well with you. jb -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: Commander-List: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recogni ze any one? do.Edu> Hey Captain, Have you being in your town hall meetings lately? So are you for or agains t the improvements" of your home base? $ 10 Millions eh?... http://columbian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091118/BIZ01/711189979 /-1/businesslocal&frompost=1 Funny how that happens, with 79 hangars and only ONE twin engine, they dec ided o include 222JS in the picture! I bet that "Irukandji" is not too happy with your GSO-480s... by the way this made today's AOPA's "Aviation eBrief" Hope you and Sue are doing great and let us know what you all decide! take care, -------- 60 Dreamer ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273783#273783 ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recognize
any one?
Date: Nov 19, 2009
That doesn't happen often. I checked out Grove Field's website and clicked "Location" which produced a google map of the airport, and lo and behold, there's 222JS parked at the east end of the airport. _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recognize any one? HI PETER.Yep, I am all over it. Been to about 100 meetings!! hope all is well with you. jb -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bichier <pbichie(at)UTNet.UToledo.Edu> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 2:11 pm Subject: Commander-List: Grove Field proposes runway improvements (recognize any one? Hey Captain, Have you being in your town hall meetings lately? So are you for or against the "improvements" of your home base? $ 10 Millions eh?... http://columbian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091118/BIZ01/711189979/-1/ businesslocal <http://columbian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091118/BIZ01/711189979/-1 /businesslocal&frompost=1> &frompost=1 Funny how that happens, with 79 hangars and only ONE twin engine, they decided to include 222JS in the picture! I bet that "Irukandji" is not too happy with your GSO-480s... by the way this made today's AOPA's "Aviation eBrief" Hope you and Sue are doing great and let us know what you all decide! take care, -------- 560 Dreamer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273783#273783 =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: From the Old Country - my old stomping grounds
Date: Nov 19, 2009
http://www.airrace.co.za/files/ROC08.pdf I don't know many of the folks any more. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has been very good, but still well behind last year. If you've been waiting until the last minute to make your contribution and maybe even pick up a great gift, now might be good time to show your support! Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: From the Old Country - my old stomping grounds
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Interesting - thanks for posting Nico. In checking through the aircraft, I came across ZS-JTR, an Arrow 200, which I have some time on. Also ZS-JTA which is a French Reims 172, not common here: 172 airframe, 210 hp and C/S prop. Similar to the Hawk XP, only with another 15 hp. A great improvement on the 172. Yes, both are just puddle-jumpers and totally out of the realm of Commanders! God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: nico css To: 'nico' Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:00 PM Subject: Commander-List: From the Old Country - my old stomping grounds http://www.airrace.co.za/files/ROC08.pdf I don't know many of the folks any more. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: [TruthByRushDelivery] Ocean Ditching
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Enjoy. Thanks, Nico TruthByRushDelivery <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2009/11/ocean-ditching.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Do you think we can scrape this amount together? <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale> <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> View Online | <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/email.asp?messageid=56466> Refer To Friend | <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Manufacturer/Conques t__I.html> Compare Conquest Is 1984 Conquest I _____ Airframe: 6260 TTSN Engines:119 SHOT Avionics: King/ Garmin 530 Features: McCauley 4 Bladed Props, CESCOM, WX1000E Stormscope, Scheduled for SIDS insp. Dec, 2009 Price: $0 Serial Number: 425-0191 <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html#adInquiryWindow> INQUIRE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> MORE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT <http://www.globalair.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I
Date: Nov 23, 2009
I was talking to a client the other day about his boss's Conquest that was coming up to a spar inspection that would cost $80,000 just to do the inspection and fixing the spar was running on the average $250,000. The Twin Commander spar problem seem a lot less. I am not sure what the Conquest spar issue is. Tylor Hall On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:50 PM, nico css wrote: > Do you think we can scrape this amount together? > > > > > > > > > > > View Online | Refer To Friend | Compare Conquest Is > 1984 Conquest I > > Airframe: 6260 TTSN > Engines:119 SHOT > Avionics: King/ Garmin 530 > Features: McCauley 4 Bladed Props, CESCOM, WX1000E Stormscope, Scheduled for SIDS insp. Dec, 2009 > Price: $0 > Serial Number: 425-0191 > > > INQUIRE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT > > > MORE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I
Date: Nov 23, 2009
That's a pretty good deal for a Garrett-powered airplane! _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:50 PM Subject: Commander-List: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I Do you think we can scrape this amount together? <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale> <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> View Online | <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/email.asp?messageid=56466> Refer To Friend | <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Manufacturer/Conques t__I.html> Compare Conquest Is 1984 Conquest I _____ Airframe: 6260 TTSN Engines:119 SHOT Avionics: King/ Garmin 530 Features: McCauley 4 Bladed Props, CESCOM, WX1000E Stormscope, Scheduled for SIDS insp. Dec, 2009 Price: $0 Serial Number: 425-0191 <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html#adInquiryWindow> INQUIRE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT <http://www.globalair.com/aircraft_for_sale/Listings_by_Broker/Par_Avion_Ltd ./Conquest__I_for_sale_56466.html> MORE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT <http://www.globalair.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Subject: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I
Date: Nov 24, 2009
Hi Folks, I have just watched (closely), the work involved in running two of these airframes through the SIDS process. The first one a Conquest 1, had extensive tail and wing work done 'in-house' by the owner/operator who sourced a consulting AME Airframe specialist to do the work onsite. The airframe still needs extensive 'fuselage' reworking and that will need to be done elsewhere. The cost so far has been quoted as A$600,000 without the extra fuselage work! That suddenly makes the 'US$0' deal look a whole lot less attractive unless you have a lot of air time booked for the finished product. The second one a Conquest 11, had the same tail and wing work but was 'passed' on the fuselage work. This still came in at around A$400,00 and the airframe was down for five months...again the work was done 'inhouse' by the same consultant. And yes, I know I have been distracted by Cessnas but there are no Commanders in my part of remote Oz! Cheers Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Hamilton" <wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.com.au>
Subject: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Folks, Further to Russell's comments, the problem with the Conquests is that Cessna have put an absolute life on most of the airframe, 22,000h from memory, and cost of complying with the Cessna SID (Supplementary Inspection Document) virtually means that is the absolute life. A number have been scrapped here in AU, as a result. The Commander situation is mild, by comparison. Cheers, Bill Hamilton =========================================================================== ================================== -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:51 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: FW: Aircraft for Sale - Conquest I Hi Folks, I have just watched (closely), the work involved in running two of these airframes through the SIDS process. The first one a Conquest 1, had extensive tail and wing work done 'in-house' by the owner/operator who sourced a consulting AME Airframe specialist to do the work onsite. The airframe still needs extensive 'fuselage' reworking and that will need to be done elsewhere. The cost so far has been quoted as A$600,000 without the extra fuselage work! That suddenly makes the 'US$0' deal look a whole lot less attractive unless you have a lot of air time booked for the finished product. The second one a Conquest 11, had the same tail and wing work but was 'passed' on the fuselage work. This still came in at around A$400,00 and the airframe was down for five months...again the work was done 'inhouse' by the same consultant. And yes, I know I have been distracted by Cessnas but there are no Commanders in my part of remote Oz! Cheers Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Mansfield" <hcourier(at)cox.net>
Subject: Looking for a 3 in 1 gage, hydraulic line update
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Clear DayHello, Am trying to locate a round, 3 in 1 gage (Oil pressure, oil temp, fuel pressure) for an Aero Commander 680 FLP. The old one has a loose glass face and it's affecting the working of the oil temp indicator needle. (The gage is also susect to erroneous readings for oil temp even when it's not affected by the glass) I know where I can send it out to be rebuilt (they don't have an up and ready gage) but the down time is 10-15 days. Part number is: 273-7TN12. Anybody got one reasonably priced? I wrote a while back about two hydraulic lines that broke within two hours flying time of each other. There were lots of email here about hydraulic lines, many gave me some good things to think about. Just for everyone's information, here's the story on both lines. The first was a very short line in the left wheel well that connected the aux pump pressure switch to the aux system. It broke at the flange. It's been replaced. The second line had a fine corrosion leak and that line's purpose was to retract the gear. That line was about 51" long and ran between the right engine nacelle (left side) and through the wing section between the right engine and the fuselage. I haven't seen the line yet but that's what the A&P folks tell me. It's been replaced and pressure checked OK. Maintenance said the other lines throughout the area look OK. Test flight Friday. Am going to have maintenance spray some corrosion preventive stuff throughtout the plane soon. Does that stuff work? Just wanted to fill in the info related to my hydraulic problem. All seems OK there now. I'm getting good at using the nitrogen system for gear extension...2X in 3 flights. Not sure who mentioned it to me, but I'm pulling the aux pump circuit break after lift off from now on. Did so the last flight and the brakes, flaps and steering worked. Not sure if that's the reason, but the way the system's set up it sure makes sense. Thanks, Ray Mansfield N91ES hcourier(at)cox.net 850-217-5185 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose Cone
From: "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Who knows where I can buy a nose cone for a 680F, any condition, hail bumps ok Thanks A P Geraghty -------- Andrew P Geraghty Corona CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274819#274819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry Merritt" <avtectwo(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Cone
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Yes i have one 321 267-3141 Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:26 PM Subject: Commander-List: Nose Cone > > Who knows where I can buy a nose cone for a 680F, any condition, hail > bumps ok > > Thanks > A P Geraghty > > -------- > Andrew P Geraghty > Corona CA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274819#274819 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lloyd silverman" <LLOYDSSS11(at)MSN.COM>
Subject: 500B ACCESS PANEL
Date: Nov 26, 2009
MY AI BUILT AN 8" X 11" ACCESS PANEL IN THE BOTTOM OF EACH COWLING.BEST THING SICE THE INVENTION OF THE FLUSH TOILET. IF IT HAD BEEN DONE 25 YEARS AGO ID HAVE SAVED AT LEAST 10 DAYS OF HARD LABOR OVER THAT PERIOD. ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE REMOVED ,REPAIRED & REPLACED STARTERS OR GENERATORS ON A 500B WILL APPRECIATE THIS NOTE.HAPPY TURKEY DAY,LLOYD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Puerto Rico
Well folks I have taken a few days off from my ACORN duties to attend my so ns's wedding in Ponce PR.- Have been in PR for a couple of days.- Had p lanned to fly 500B down here but free 1rst class on AA worked out better. - If I get an extra day or two will try to set up some government run "ho mes of recreation". - Sincerely, - dan =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Donnie Rose <aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Puerto Rico
count me in Dan=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______ __________________________=0AFrom: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>=0AT o: commander-list-digest(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, November 26, 2009 6:51: 25 PM=0ASubject: Commander-List: Puerto Rico=0A=0A=0AWell folks I have take n a few days off from my ACORN duties to attend my sons's wedding in Ponce PR.- Have been in PR for a couple of days.- Had planned to fly 500B dow n here but free 1rst class on AA worked out better.- If I get an extra da y or two will try to set up some government run "homes of recreation".=0A =========================0A =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Puerto Rico
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Date: Thu=2C 26 Nov 2009 19:55:16 -0800 From: aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Puerto Rico count me in Dan Donnie Rose 205/492-8444 From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thu=2C November 26=2C 2009 6:51:25 PM Subject: Commander-List: Puerto Rico Well folks I have taken a few days off from my ACORN duties to attend my so ns's wedding in Ponce PR. Have been in PR for a couple of days. Had plann ed to fly 500B down here but free 1rst class on AA worked out better. If I get an extra day or two will try to set up some government run "homes of r ecreation". Sincerely=2C dan AeroElectric wwwmebuilthelp.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.homeb uilthelp.com================== _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted simpler=2C now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P ID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
There are 3 on my engine nacelles - 1 in the middle for the oil cooler, and 1 on either side of the spinner for the cylinder heads. I call them "air inlet opening thingies". Happy holidays..!! Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
> Does the term "hole" come to mind :-) I guess I was looking for something a little more precise and/or technical - "D ducts", maybe? God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Andrew, I'm looking, but thought maybe a little humor in the mean time, might work. So far under "Aircraft Technical" this is what they say "v=induction system The engine receives ram air through an intake in the lower front portion of the engine cowling. An air filter is placed at the intake end of the duct. " which lacks a lot, calling it only an intake. But will keep looking. From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings > Does the term "hole" come to mind :-) I guess I was looking for something a little more precise and/or technical - "D ducts", maybe? God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
OH, forgot to mention, on my Commander, the term "Birdhouse" describes it very well in the summer time. From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings > Does the term "hole" come to mind :-) I guess I was looking for something a little more precise and/or technical - "D ducts", maybe? God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Thanks, Don, I knew you were kidding. What I found was this on a Diamond aircraft service bulletin: (http://www.diamondaircraft.com/library/10/11/Enlarged_cowl.pdf) "The engine cooling air inlets in the upper cowling may be enlarged to reduce engine temperatures for operators who regularly fly at high outside air temperatures. This change is compatible with the Two Stage Winter Kit (SB DAC1-71-03)." I guess they are "engine cooling air inlets"... Thanks! God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Andrew, I'm looking, but thought maybe a little humor in the mean time, might work. So far under "Aircraft Technical" this is what they say "v=induction system The engine receives ram air through an intake in the lower front portion of the engine cowling. An air filter is placed at the intake end of the duct. " which lacks a lot, calling it only an intake. But will keep looking. From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:29 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings > Does the term "hole" come to mind :-) I guess I was looking for something a little more precise and/or technical - "D ducts", maybe? God bless, Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
How about engine cooling air intake? My Stearman ain't got none! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/27/2009 10:22:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, dongirod(at)bellsouth.net writes: That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: _andrew.bridget(at)telus.net_ (mailto:andrew.bridget(at)telus.net) Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ____________________________________ Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dongirod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
I have been on Google, FAA, and Airman Information Manual, for over an hour and don't find a thing, so sounds good to me. Don From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings How about engine cooling air intake? My Stearman ain't got none! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/27/2009 10:22:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, dongirod(at)bellsouth.net writes: That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <andrew.bridget(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Thanks, Don & Bob. ----- Original Message ----- From: dongirod To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings I have been on Google, FAA, and Airman Information Manual, for over an hour and don't find a thing, so sounds good to me. Don From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 12:39 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings How about engine cooling air intake? My Stearman ain't got none! Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/27/2009 10:22:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, dongirod(at)bellsouth.net writes: That is where my filters for the air intakes are as well as the cooling. Does the term "hole" come to mind From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: Question on Aircraft Cowl Openings Hello everybody, Happy Thanksgiving to all those from the US. I wonder if one of you could help me, please... On the cowl of a piston engine aircraft, on either side of the prop hub there are usually two openings that allow air into the cowl to cool the engine. What are those openings called? Do they have a name? Thanks in advance! God bless, Andrew href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 11/27/09 02:58:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Moshluk" <gmosh(at)charter.net>
Subject: Cowl Induction
Date: Nov 27, 2009
I see no one mentioned "Nostrils"...as a possibility? "Cheeklets" or "Nostlets" might work just as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose Cone
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
I have an original with a G/S mount for $1000.00 or a fiberglass replaceme nt with a NACA duct for $500.00 jb -----Original Message----- From: apg86 <apg86(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 6:26 pm Subject: Commander-List: Nose Cone Who knows where I can buy a nose cone for a 680F, any condition, hail bump s ok Thanks P Geraghty -------- ndrew P Geraghty orona CA ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274819#274819 ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose Cone
From: "apg86" <apg86(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Thank you very much I got one from Morris K -------- Andrew P Geraghty Corona CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275113#275113 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching. I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses, I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that happen! Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers? Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%...
Dear Listers, This year's List Fund Raiser is still trailing last year by a 12% margin. If you like the ad-free environment that is the Matronics Email List and Forum experience, please make a quick Contribution to keep it that way! http://www.matronics.com/contribution I've been getting a ton of really nice comments from Contributors regarding the Lists. Please read over some of them below and see if they don't resonate with you as well. Thank you in advance for your generous contribution to support these Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator --------------------------- Member Feedback ---------------------------- ur web site is a real institution of the whole Experimental Aircraft subculture. John G Thanks Matt for the lists. A lot of good info. Great bunch of list members. Great videos and no SPAM. Paul C It has been a valuable tool. Troy M ..appreciate the site as much as ever. Larry M By using various forums I've learned a ton, received great advice, made friends, and saved money! Craig W Since I've finished [my project], I've not had much to do as far as fabrication of electrical systems. However, selectively reading various topics is still very valuable and Bob's insights and new how to's make me a continuous subscriber. Larry F Matronics user groups are the best tool I have for learning to build my RV-10! Philip W There is always useful knowledge to be found on this list, and I suspect that it has kept quite a few people out of trouble over the years it has been in operation. Good entertainment, too. Graham H Great web site. I wish I'd known about it while building. Bob S I'm happy to provide some support to this list. It is very helpful. Vaughn T Good service to sport aviation!! Roger B Awesome Service you provide for us! Bill R My [project] is almost finished! However, it wouldn't be close without the [this] group. Douwe B Great list. Robert S I'm not a builder yet but learning lots from the list. Peter M Some nonsense, some humor, but mostly good information. Tony C Thanks for creating and keeping the Lists. They are entertaining and always informative! John M Thanks for this valuable resource to our community. Barry H The list is IMHO the greatest resource on the net. John B Thanks again for providing another year of your useful List service. Jerry B Great site indeed, every time I get a message I usually learn something. Peter B You are making a huge contribution to the builder fraternity and in no small way enhancing sport aviation safety. Richard G The List is the SINGLE, MOST IMPORTANT resource I have in building my RV10. I would be lost without out it. And I have made a bunch of new friends as well! Les K The lists are one of the things I really enjoy, so keep up the good work. Freddie H Every year -- the best value for my time and money! Owen B This list is a major contribution to safe building! Donald K Really enjoy the daily boost it gives me. Walter S In the last 18 months I have been privileged to listen & ask. I have learnt at the feet of the masters... Stewart G You set the standard on how Internet forums should be run and managed. Larry W The Universe is a better place because of you. Eric J [The List] helped me get flying, fly off my test hours and make my systems better. I continue to get and give information through these lists. Ralph C ..another GREAT year of advice, answers, and inspiration courtesy of the Lists and your hard work!!!! Rob B ..the best forum on the Internet! Robert B I can't tell you how grateful I am for your list and your subscribers to keep me up to date and holding the dream. Ashley M This page makes it easy to contribute. Jeffrey P Thank you for your expertise in creating & running the much useful lists! Anthony P Thanks for providing our advertising free on line community. George R Thanks for maintaining the equipment and software to provide this valuable source of information to us individuals. Your effort is appreciated by many more people than you realize. Ross H Thanks for a great site. Although the project is complete and flying I still get a wealth of information from all the messages. Marcus C Only learned about you six months ago...my RV-7A is just finished, but the list has been helpful. Wish I had discovered you sooner. Jack B This is an invaluable communications media for us common minded folks to exchange technical and other information. George H ..great service that you provide. David W ..still appreciate your list. Alain L [The] Lists are an invaluable resource. I know that it has helped me enormously in my project. William B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its my 46th birthday! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been jones'n over one of the really nice gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone feels the same. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: F16 vs. C-130
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Too precious. F16 vs. C-130 A C-130 was lumbering along when a cocky F-16 flashed by. The jet jockey decided to show off. The fighter jock told the C-130 pilot, 'watch this!' and promptly went into a barrel roll followed by a steep climb. He then finished with a sonic boom as he broke the sound barrier. The F-16 pilot asked the C-130 pilot what he thought of that? The C-130 pilot said, 'That was impressive, but watch this!' The C-130 droned along for about 5 minutes and then the C-130 pilot came back on and said: 'What did you think of that?' Puzzled, the F-16 pilot asked, 'What the heck did you do?' The C-130 pilot chuckled. 'I stood up, stretched my legs, walked to the back, took a leak, then got a cup of coffee and a cinnamon roll.' When you are young & foolish - speed & flash may seem a good thing !!! When you get older & smarter - comfort & dull is not such a bad thing!!! Us older folks understand this one. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: FW: F16 vs. C-130
Date: Dec 02, 2009
This is very scary, this was sent to me by a very good friend of mine and he does not send things that are not true.I do not know the man that wrote this letter... Thought all of you would like to read it.M.L. One week ago, I went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On Tuesday, November the 17th, I returned home. If you read the papers the 18th you may have seen a blurb where a AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to Houston due to a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before takeoff. It was on Fox. This was NOT what happened. I was in 1st class coming home. 11 Muslim men got on the plane in full attire. 2 sat in 1st class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the 1st stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she was not there. The 2nd man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the 2nd stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger Muslims, one in the back, isle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. Now..they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her. (don't ask me..I don't make the rules, but I've studied) The 3rd stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said "shut up infidel dog!" She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic. At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say "I got your back." I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said "you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!" As I "led" him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the 2nd man and said, "You WILL do the same!" He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage. We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happen, when suddenly, the door open again and on walked all 11!! Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men. The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston . The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent "we and our crew will not fly this plane!" After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. 5 minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on. Again...this is where I had had enough!!! I got up and asked "What the hell is going on!?!?" I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said "I'm getting off this plane". The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off. (now I'm mad!) I said "I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who's time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I'm going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!" And I heard a voice behind me say "so am I". Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am. Look up the date. Flight 297 Atlanta to Houston . If this wasn't a dry run, I don't know what one is. They wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it. I'm telling this to you because I want you to know.. The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes.. -Tedd Petruna ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: FW: F16 vs. C-130
From: Dan Wold <danwold(at)gmail.com>
I don't normally post here, but I think we need to set the record straight. Please read this http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/flight297.asp in reference to David Owens post. Don't believe everything you hear on the internet - scratch that - don't believe *anything* you read on the internet without doing a bit of research. I'm sick of getting emails from the Commander list that don't have to do with Aero Commanders. Let's all do ourselves a favor and keep the political and chain emails out of our list. If it doesn't involve a Commander, don't post it, I really don't care about your political opinions and most others don't either. Thanks, DW On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:37 PM, David Owens wro te: > This is very scary, this was sent to me by a very good friend of mine an d > he does not send things that are not true=85I do not know the man that wr ote > this letter... Thought all of you would like to read it=85M.L. > > One week ago, I went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On Tuesda y, > November the 17th, I returned home. If you read the papers the 18th you may > have seen a blurb where a AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to > Houston due to a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before > takeoff. It was on Fox. > > This was NOT what happened. > > I was in 1st class coming home. 11 Muslim men got on the plane in full > attire. 2 sat in 1st class and the rest peppered themselves throughout t he > plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway the > stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that > time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the > back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very > aggressively. This took the 1st stewardess out of the picture for she > repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He > ignored her as if she was not there. > > The 2nd man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the 2nd > stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger Muslims, on e > in the back, isle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of > a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. > Now=85.they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim ma n > goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to > her. (don=92t ask me=85.I don=92t make the rules, but I=92ve studied) T he 3rd > stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at > this time. To which one of the men said =93shut up infidel dog!=94 She went to > take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic. At that > exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk the cabin. This is > where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a > voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say =93I got your back. =94 I > grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said =93you WILL go > sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!=94 As I =93led=94 him ar ound me > to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck an d > his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the 2nd man and said, > =93You WILL do the same!=94 He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he > was going to go. As I escorted him forward the plane doors open and 3 TS A > agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new Texan friend were to ld > to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to obli ge > actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 > were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage. > > We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happen, > when suddenly, the door open again and on walked all 11!! Stone faced, e yes > front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the > back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! > Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told th e > TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men. The > agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their > luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to > Houston . The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent =93we a nd > our crew will not fly this plane!=94 After a word or two, the entire cre w, > luggage in tow, left the plane. 5 minutes later, the cabin door opened > again and a whole new crew walked on. > > Again=85..this is where I had had enough!!! I got up and asked =93What t he > hell is going on!?!?=94 I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the > delay and I would be home shortly. I said =93I=92m getting off this plan e=94. > The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off. ( now > I=92m mad!) I said =93I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who=92s t ime is > mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I=92m goi ng > through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that > door!!=94 And I heard a voice behind me say =93so am I=94. Then everyon e behind > us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking o ff > that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a > statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to > the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was > supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am. > > Look up the date. Flight 297 Atlanta to Houston . > > If this wasn=92t a dry run, I don=92t know what one is. They wanted to s ee how > TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers > would handle it. > > I=92m telling this to you because I want you to know=85. > The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes=85. > > -Tedd Petruna > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thrust, Drag, Lift, Weight
Date: Dec 08, 2009
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
We've secretly removed one of this flyer's fundamental forces (not that force, a different one). Let's see how he responds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xKzL_jIMdA&feature=player_embedded It appears it's going to take some more Darwin to unlearn Newton. :) Brock ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2009
Subject: 37,000 hours passed!
From: Russell Legg <rlegg(at)austarnet.com.au>
Hi Folks, Earlier this year I reported on Shrike VH-MEH, c/n 3258 reaching 35,000 hrs...it has just chalked up 37,000 hrs flying with General Aviation Maintenance out of Essendon Airport in Melbourne, Victoria. This bird just keeps churning through engines and props!! Cheers from Oz Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: 37,000 hours passed!
Date: Dec 18, 2009
Russell, Thanks! That means that my girl, at only 18,000 hours, isn't an old lady....she's just reaching middle age. Sweet! /John -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Legg Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:30 AM Subject: Commander-List: 37,000 hours passed! --> Hi Folks, Earlier this year I reported on Shrike VH-MEH, c/n 3258 reaching 35,000 hrs...it has just chalked up 37,000 hrs flying with General Aviation Maintenance out of Essendon Airport in Melbourne, Victoria. This bird just keeps churning through engines and props!! Cheers from Oz Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 680FP
From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2009
Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQitemZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 -------- Milt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Dec 18, 2009
That is one beautiful machine. With only 3,700 hours on the airframe this may even be considered new, right? Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n395v Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:25 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680FP --> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQitemZ170 420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 -------- Milt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Faraday Cage
Date: Dec 19, 2009
I am sure most will know what a Faraday Cage is, but this is one in practical use that's quite extraordinary. Not the cage, but the guy's job. Like he says, it's like a flying carpet. Anyone knows what they are looking for when they do this? http://www.flixxy.com/helicopter-cable-inspector.htm Description of a Faraday Cage: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage Thanks Nico ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 20, 2009
This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, and he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? Moe N680RR 680F(p) -------------------------------------------------- From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > > > Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQitemZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 > > -------- > Milt > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: 680FP
Date: Dec 20, 2009
Moe, I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. I didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: Jerry Sprayberry SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three great-grandchildren. Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, Summerville. Visitation is noon on Wednesday. I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his airplane. /John -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe-rosspistons Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP --> This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, and he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? Moe N680RR 680F(p) -------------------------------------------------- From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > > > Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit > emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 > > -------- > Milt > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 20, 2009
John, Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice guy. If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. Regards, Moe -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > > Moe, > > I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. > I > didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: > > Jerry Sprayberry > > SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. > > Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, > Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three > great-grandchildren. > > Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, > Summerville. > > Visitation is noon on Wednesday. > > I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went > west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his > airplane. > > /John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Moe-rosspistons > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > --> > > This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, > and > he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate > sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM > To: > Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > >> >> >> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit >> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 >> >> -------- >> Milt >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 20, 2009
Jerry Sprayberry died last Spring. He was an active participant in the Coast Guard Auxiliary and was awarded a plaque for his service (posthumously) at the annual Eight Coast Guard safety meeting at the CGAS New Orleans in June. He was a good guy and freely shared his experiences with anyone interested enough to ask. He is sorely missed. Kindest regards, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, 20 December, 2009 14:33 Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > > John, > > Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really > a nice guy. > > If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a > complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. > > Regards, > > Moe > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM > To: > Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > >> >> Moe, >> >> I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. >> I >> didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: >> >> Jerry Sprayberry >> >> SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. >> >> Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, >> Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; >> three >> great-grandchildren. >> >> Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, >> Summerville. >> >> Visitation is noon on Wednesday. >> >> I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went >> west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his >> airplane. >> >> /John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Moe-rosspistons >> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM >> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP >> >> --> >> >> This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, >> and >> he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate >> sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? >> >> Moe >> N680RR >> 680F(p) >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> >> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM >> To: >> Subject: Commander-List: 680FP >> >>> >>> >>> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit >>> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 >>> >>> -------- >>> Milt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 21, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy. He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP otmail.com> John, Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice guy. If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a comp lete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. Regards, Moe -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > > > Moe, > > I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville . > I > didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: > > Jerry Sprayberry > > SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. > > Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, > Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; thr ee > great-grandchildren. > > Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, > Summerville. > > Visitation is noon on Wednesday. > > I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went > west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his > airplane. > > /John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Moe-rosspistons > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > --> > > This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, > and > he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate > sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM > To: > Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > >> >> >> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit >> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 >> >> -------- >> Milt >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 21, 2009
Hi, Does anyone know of a good substitute for Loctite 404? This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material. The 404 works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening. This is not to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod" which I am making a gasket set for. I need something that is good, as it is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings go. Also, for some reason I can no longer make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Moe N680RR 680Fp From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy. He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP John, Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice guy. If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. Regards, Moe -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > > Moe, > > I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. > I > didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: > > Jerry Sprayberry > > SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. > > Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, > Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three > great-grandchildren. > > Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, > Summerville. > > Visitation is noon on Wednesday. > > I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went > west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his > airplane. > > /John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Moe-rosspistons > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > --> > > This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, > and > he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate > sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM > To: > Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > >> >> >> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit >> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 >> >> -------- >> Milt >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > =========== ank>www.aeroelectric.com target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com blank>www.homebuilthelp.com >www.howtocrimp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== ://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: 2009 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, The 2009 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running. You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I also want to thank Bob, Jon, Andy, and John for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com John Caldwell - HowToCrimp - www.howtocrimp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2009 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2009.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2009
Subject: Re: 680FP
From: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Moe, Have you tried unsubscribing and resubscribing to the list? That might fix it. Worth trying before you contact our esteemed host/moderator anyway... Sent by my DROID. On Dec 21, 2009 12:06 AM, "Moe-rosspistons" wrote: *Hi,* ** *Does anyone know of a good substitute for Loctite 404? This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material. The 404 works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening. This is not to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod" which I am making a gasket set for. I need something that is good, as it is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings go.* ** *Also, for some reason I can no longer make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts. Does anyone have a solution to this problem?* ** *Moe* *N680RR* *680Fp* *From:* yourtcfg(at)aol.com *Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy. He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airp... * href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com * Please Support You... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 21, 2009
Moe, We use super glue. We make o rings from bulk stock for our filter housings. Works great. Tylor Hall On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know of a good substitute for Loctite 404? This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material. The 404 works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening. This is not to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod" which I am making a gasket set for. I need something that is good, as it is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings go. > > Also, for some reason I can no longer make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? > > Moe > N680RR > 680Fp > > > From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy. He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airplane. jb > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > > John, > > Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice guy. > > If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. > > Regards, > > Moe > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM > To: > Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > > > > > Moe, > > > > I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. > I > > didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: > > > > Jerry Sprayberry > > > > SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. > > > > Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, > > Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three > > great-grandchildren. > > > > Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, > > Summerville. > > > > Visitation is noon on Wednesday. > > > > I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went > > west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his > > airplane. > > > > /John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > Moe-rosspistons > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM > > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > > > --> > > > > This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, > and > > he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate > > sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? > > > > Moe > > N680RR > > 680F(p) > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM > > To: > > Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > > > >> > >> > >> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit > >> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 > >> > >> -------- > >> Milt > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================== > ank>www.aeroelectric.com > target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > >www.howtocrimp.com > lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > =========== > ://forums.matronics.com > =========== > > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher(at)commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Firwall forward IO720 for sale
Date: Dec 21, 2009
I have a firewall forward IO720 for sale, it comes complete with everything. Lycoming IO-720B1BD Mr RPM STC Serial number is L989-54A 1800 Hr TBO Overhauled by Certified Engines Unlimited, Inc. Aug/21/1990 All accessories done at this time Tach Gen 10/07 TTSMOH is 361.9 hrs Tom Fisher C-GISS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe-rosspistons" <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 680FP
Date: Dec 21, 2009
Thanks Tylor, I suspected that it would, but didn't want to experiment on something that is so time consuming. Regards, Moe From: Tylor Hall Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP Moe, We use super glue. We make o rings from bulk stock for our filter housings. Works great. Tylor Hall On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Moe-rosspistons wrote: Hi, Does anyone know of a good substitute for Loctite 404? This is the glue that is used to fuse two "O" ring parts together when making an odd dia. ring from bulk "O" ring material. The 404 works great, however, it is very expensive by the time I get it here, has a shelf life, and is supposed to be refegriated after opening. This is not to be used on my airplane, rather it is to be used on my 1949 Hudson "Rat Rod" which I am making a gasket set for. I need something that is good, as it is really hard to get to the places where the "O" rings go. Also, for some reason I can no longer make an original post to this forum, and can only answer other posts. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Moe N680RR 680Fp From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:35 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP SAD, Jerry was a really nice guy. He really liked his Commander, it will make someone a nice airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: Moe-rosspistons <moe-rosspistons(at)hotmail.com> To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 12:33 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP John, Sadly, this almost certainly must be our Jerry Sprayberry. He was really a nice guy. If anyone is considering this 680F(p) it would be a good idea to do a complete check out on the low time engine and the hydraulic system. Regards, Moe -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:41 AM To: Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP > > Moe, > > I notice the aiprlane is in Lafayette, GA, which is close to Summerville. > I > didn't know capnspray personally, but I found this online: > > Jerry Sprayberry > > SUMMERVILLE -- Jerry R. Sprayberry, 70, died Saturday, April 4, 2009. > > Survivors, children, Stan (Lynn) Sprayberry; Shari (Dennis) Rodriquez, > Cynthia Sprayberry; father, Leonard Sprayberry; three grandchildren; three > great-grandchildren. > > Funeral is 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at Mason Funeral Home, > Summerville. > > Visitation is noon on Wednesday. > > I hope that isn't our Jerry Sprayberry, but if it is indeed he who went > west, Godspeed. I hope one of our listers becomes the steward of his > airplane. > > /John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Moe-rosspistons > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:47 AM > To: commander-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP > > --> > > This was Jerry Sprayberry's plane. I use to talk to Jerry fairly often, > and > he attended at least one of our events. I noticed that this is an estate > sale.....does this mean that CaptnSpray is no longer with us? > > Moe > N680RR > 680F(p) > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "n395v" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com> > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 6:24 AM > To: > Subject: Commander-List: 680FP > >> >> >> Someone was looking for a 680FP awhile back, can't remember who. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Commander-680FP-Estate-Sale_W0QQit >> emZ170420689474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aircraft?hash=item27addd5a42 >> >> -------- >> Milt >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278059#278059 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > =========== ank>www.aeroelectric.com target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com blank>www.homebuilthelp.com >www.howtocrimp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =========== ://forums.matronics.com =========== href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Thompson" <richard(at)flycorp.com.au>
Subject: Happy Christmas
Date: Dec 24, 2009
To All in the US and elsewhwere. Hope that you all have a happy Christmas and a great New Year. Hopefully next year will be a little less hectic than this one. Once again thanks to all those who helped me through 9 years of rebuild, 680E's rock. Man I love this bird. All those that have not yet made an appearance at the Fly in. ITS ABOUT TIME YOU DID. Cheers from Down Under, Richard & Jacqui ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Happy Christmas
Date: Dec 23, 2009
And a Merry Christmas and very prosperous New Year to you all. Nico, Johanna and Nicolene _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Thompson Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Commander-List: Happy Christmas To All in the US and elsewhwere. Hope that you all have a happy Christmas and a great New Year. Hopefully next year will be a little less hectic than this one. Once again thanks to all those who helped me through 9 years of rebuild, 680E's rock. Man I love this bird. All those that have not yet made an appearance at the Fly in. ITS ABOUT TIME YOU DID. Cheers from Down Under, Richard & Jacqui ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Girod" <dongirod(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas
Date: Dec 23, 2009
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you and yours, Richard God Bless, Don From: Richard Thompson Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 7:13 PM Subject: Commander-List: Happy Christmas To All in the US and elsewhwere. Hope that you all have a happy Christmas and a great New Year. Hopefully next year will be a little less hectic than this one. Once again thanks to all those who helped me through 9 years of rebuild, 680E's rock. Man I love this bird. All those that have not yet made an appearance at the Fly in. ITS ABOUT TIME YOU DID. Cheers from Down Under, Richard & Jacqui ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 12/23/09 03:28:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas
and the same to you .Gil In a message dated 12/23/2009 9:03:13 P.M. Central America Standard , nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes: And a Merry Christmas and very prosperous New Year to you all. Nico, Johanna and Nicolene ____________________________________ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Thompson Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Commander-List: Happy Christmas To All in the US and elsewhwere. Hope that you all have a happy Christmas and a great New Year. Hopefully next year will be a little less hectic than this one. Once again thanks to all those who helped me through 9 years of rebuild, 680E=99s rock. Man I love this bird. All those that have not yet made an appearance at the Fly in. ITS ABOUT TIME YOU DID. Cheers from Down Under, Richard & Jacqui href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ======================== ============ (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: MERRY CHRISTmas
Date: Dec 24, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
HI KIDS...Another year is almost past. it was a great year for Sue and I. Merry Christmas to all of you. Remember why we still, after more than 2000 years celebrate this season. It is the birth of our risen savour, Jesus Christ. This season has nothing to do with Santa or elvs, it is th e God of the universe sending his only Son to us as a gift. Praise God!!! merry Christmas to all. jb&sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Dead Battery
Date: Dec 27, 2009
The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dead Battery
Date: Dec 27, 2009
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Over the years, and 15,000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots. One is "If you never turn your strobe lights of f, you will never leave your master switch on" :-) Yes, the light is con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (. Happy new Year!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, Dec 27, 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -= * HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2009
From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09
My stall warning is direct to bat, but doubt would cause alot of problem un less you park in a stall:-))- That is on a 1964 500B. - dan f --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Commander-List Digest Server wrote: From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 12:55 AM * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander ====================== ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Commander-List Dig est Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Sun 12/2 7/09: 2 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 05:22 PM - Dead Battery- (Wiliam Boelte) - ---2. 05:56 PM - Re: Dead Battery- (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ________________________________- Message 2- __________________________ ___________ Subject: Re: Commander-List: Dead Battery From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Over the years, and 15,000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots.- One is "If you never turn your strobe lights o f f, you will never leave your master switch on" :-)---Yes, the light i s con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (.---Happy new Year!! - jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, Dec 27, 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ======================= - -=- - ----- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -=- - - - ---(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -=---November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.- Click on -=---the Contribution link below to find out more about -=---this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -=---by: -=- ---* AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -=- ---* The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -=- ---* HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -=- ---* HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -=---List Contribution Web Site: - -=-----> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -=---Thank you for your generous support! - -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall e, List Admin. - -======================= ======================= -=- - - - - - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -=-----> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================= ======================= -=- - - - - - ---- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -=-----> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================= ======================= le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09
Date: Dec 28, 2009
My master /aux power switch had a wire (in the overhead chase) that would s ometimes cause the master to kill the battery totally. I had it repaired an d has been ok since then. Now I leave my strobe on all the time in case it does it again. I have a 1958 500. Roland Gilliam AC 6291 B Date: Mon=2C 28 Dec 2009 16:24:48 -0800 From: daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 My stall warning is direct to bat=2C but doubt would cause alot of problem unless you park in a stall:-)) That is on a 1964 500B. dan f --- On Mon=2C 12/28/09=2C Commander-List Digest Server wrote: From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 Date: Monday=2C December 28=2C 2009=2C 12:55 AM * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/27/09: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 PM - Dead Battery (Wiliam Boelte) 2. 05:56 PM - Re: Dead Battery (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch=2C but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards=2C Bill ________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ Subject: Re: Commander-List: Dead Battery From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Over the years=2C and 15=2C000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots. One is "If you never turn your strobe lights of f=2C you will never leave your master switch on" :-) Yes=2C the light is con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (. Happy new Year!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun=2C Dec 27=2C 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch=2C but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards=2C Bill ======================= - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -= * HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. - -======================= ======================= -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription=2C -= Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C -= Photoshare=2C and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================= ======================= -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================= ======================= ===="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http:// www.matro -Mattom/Navigator?Commander-List" target=_bl ank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _sp=3B --> ht _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09
Date: Dec 28, 2009
Would the wire cause the master relay to close and that drain the battery or would it short to ground and drain the battery through the short? Kindest regards, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Roland Gilliam To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, 28 December, 2009 18:44 Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 My master /aux power switch had a wire (in the overhead chase) that would sometimes cause the master to kill the battery totally. I had it repaired and has been ok since then. Now I leave my strobe on all the time in case it does it again. I have a 1958 500. Roland Gilliam AC 6291 B ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:24:48 -0800 From: daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com My stall warning is direct to bat, but doubt would cause alot of problem unless you park in a stall:-)) That is on a 1964 500B. dan f --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Commander-List Digest Server wrote: From: Commander-List Digest Server Subject: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 To: "Commander-List Digest List" Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 12:55 AM * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/27/09: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 PM - Dead Battery (Wiliam Boelte) 2. 05:56 PM - Re: Dead Battery (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Commander-List: Dead Battery From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Over the years, and 15,000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots. One is "If you never turn your strobe lights of f, you will never leave your master switch on" :-) Yes, the light is con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (. Happy new Year!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, Dec 27, 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ======================= ========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -= * HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================= ========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================= ========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================= ===="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matro -Mattom/Navigator?Commander-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _sp; --> ht lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com p.com ww.matronics.com/contribution st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich target='_new'>Get it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09
Date: Dec 28, 2009
No, I park in a hangar. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Farmer To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, 28 December, 2009 18:24 Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 My stall warning is direct to bat, but doubt would cause alot of problem unless you park in a stall:-)) That is on a 1964 500B. dan f --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Commander-List Digest Server wrote: From: Commander-List Digest Server Subject: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 To: "Commander-List Digest List" Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 12:55 AM * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/27/09: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 PM - Dead Battery (Wiliam Boelte) 2. 05:56 PM - Re: Dead Battery (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Commander-List: Dead Battery From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Over the years, and 15,000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots. One is "If you never turn your strobe lights of f, you will never leave your master switch on" :-) Yes, the light is con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (. Happy new Year!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun, Dec 27, 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch, but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards, Bill ======================= ========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com -= * HowToCrimp www.howtocrimp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================= ========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================= ========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================= ===="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matro -Mattom/Navigator?Commander-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _sp; --> ht ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roland Gilliam <amg3636(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09
Date: Dec 28, 2009
I'm not sure=2C but in my case I think it caused the relay to close. Howeve r =2CI am not absolutly sure of that. Roland Gilliam From: n55bz(at)cox.net Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 Date: Mon=2C 28 Dec 2009 20:34:14 -0600 Would the wire cause the master relay to close and that drain the battery o r would it short to ground and drain the battery through the short? Kindest regards=2C Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Roland Gilliam Sent: Monday=2C 28 December=2C 2009 18:44 Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 My master /aux power switch had a wire (in the overhead chase) that would s ometimes cause the master to kill the battery totally. I had it repaired an d has been ok since then. Now I leave my strobe on all the time in case it does it again. I have a 1958 500. Roland Gilliam AC 6291 B Date: Mon=2C 28 Dec 2009 16:24:48 -0800 From: daniellfarmer(at)yahoo.com Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 My stall warning is direct to bat=2C but doubt would cause alot of problem unless you park in a stall:-)) That is on a 1964 500B. dan f --- On Mon=2C 12/28/09=2C Commander-List Digest Server wrote: From: Commander-List Digest Server <commander-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Commander-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/27/09 Date: Monday=2C December 28=2C 2009=2C 12:55 AM * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 09-12-27&Archive=Commander ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/27/09: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 PM - Dead Battery (Wiliam Boelte) 2. 05:56 PM - Re: Dead Battery (yourtcfg(at)aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ From: "Wiliam Boelte" <n55bz(at)cox.net> Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch=2C but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery voltage was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards=2C Bill ________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ Subject: Re: Commander-List: Dead Battery From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com Over the years=2C and 15=2C000 hours I have learned a couple of "pearls of wis dom" I share with pilots. One is "If you never turn your strobe lights of f=2C you will never leave your master switch on" :-) Yes=2C the light is con nected directly to the battery and will run it down if the switch fails :- (. Happy new Year!! jb -----Original Message----- From: Wiliam Boelte <n55bz(at)cox.net> Sent: Sun=2C Dec 27=2C 2009 5:21 pm Subject: Commander-List: Dead Battery The battery was DEAD. I had in fact turned off the Master switch=2C but it was dead. There wasn't even enough power to make the light in the baggage compartment glow. Last Wednesday it was fine. I updated the data bases and the battery volta ge was 23 V. Is anything other than the baggage compartment light connected directly to the battery? The airplane is a 1979 Shrike. Kindest regards=2C Bill ======================= - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. 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From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?(MWH)
Date: Jan 06, 2010
What was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird? Brian Shul, Retired SR-71 Pilot via Plane and Pilot Magazine. As a former SR-71 pilot, and a professional keynote speaker, the question I'm most often asked is "How fast would that SR-71 fly?" I can be assured of hearing that question several times at any event I attend. It's an interesting question, given the aircraft's proclivity for speed, but there really isn't one number to give, as the jet would always give you a little more speed if you wanted it to. It was common to see 35 miles a minute. Because we flew a programmed Mach number on most missions, and never wanted to harm the plane in any way, we never let it run out to any limits of temperature or speed. Thus, each SR-71 pilot had his own individual "high" speed that he saw at some point on some mission. I saw mine over Libya when Khadafy fired two missiles my way, and max power was in order. Let's just say that the plane truly loved speed and effortlessly took us to Mach numbers we hadn't previously seen. So it was with great surprise, when at the end of one of my presentations, someone asked, "what was the slowest you ever flew the Blackbird?" This was a first. After giving it some thought, I was reminded of a story that I had never shared before, and relayed the following. I was flying the SR-71 out of RAF Mildenhall, England, with my back-seater, Walt Watson; we were returning from a mission over Europe and the Iron Curtain when we received a radio transmission from home base. As we scooted across Denmark in three minutes, we learned that a small RAF base in the English countryside had requested an SR-71 fly-past. The air cadet commander there was a former Blackbird pilot, and thought it would be a motivating moment for the young lads to see the mighty SR-71 perform a low approach. No problem, we were happy to do it. After a quick aerial refueling over the North Sea, we proceeded to find the small airfield. Walter had a myriad of sophisticated navigation equipment in the back seat, and began to vector me toward the field. Descending to subsonic speeds, we found ourselves over a densely wooded area in a slight haze. Like most former WWII British airfields, the one we were looking for had a small tower and little surrounding infrastructure. Walter told me we were close and that I should be able to see the field, but I saw nothing. Nothing but trees as far as I could see in the haze. We got a little lower, and I pulled the throttles back from 325 knots we were at. With the gear up, anything under 275 was just uncomfortable. Walt said we were practically over the field-yet; there was nothing in my windscreen. I banked the jet and started a gentle circling maneuver in hopes of picking up anything that looked like a field. Meanwhile, below, the cadet commander had taken the cadets up on the catwalk of the tower in order to get a prime view of the fly-past. It was a quiet, still day with no wind and partial gray overcast. Walter continued to give me indications that the field should be below us but in the overcast and haze, I couldn't see it. The longer we continued to peer out the window and circle, the slower we got. With our power back, the awaiting cadets heard nothing. I must have had good instructors in my flying career, as something told me I better cross-check the gauges. As I noticed the airspeed indicator slide below 160 knots, my heart stopped and my adrenalin-filled left hand pushed two throttles full forward. At this point we weren't really flying, but were falling in a slight bank. Just at the moment that both afterburners lit with a thunderous roar of flame (and what a joyous feeling that was) the aircraft fell into full view of the shocked observers on the tower. Shattering the still quiet of that morning, they now had 107 feet of fire-breathing titanium in their face as the plane leveled and accelerated, in full burner, on the tower side of the infield, closer than expected, maintaining what could only be described as some sort of ultimate knife-edge pass. Quickly reaching the field boundary, we proceeded back to Mildenhall without incident. We didn't say a word for those next 14 minutes. After landing, our commander greeted us, and we were both certain he was reaching for our wings. Instead, he heartily shook our hands and said the commander had told him it was the greatest SR-71 fly-past he had ever seen, especially how we had surprised them with such a precise maneuver that could only be described as breathtaking. He said that some of the cadet's hats were blown off and the sight of the plan form of the plane in full afterburner dropping right in front of them was unbelievable. Walt and I both understood the concept of "breathtaking" very well that morning, and sheepishly replied that they were just excited to see our low approach. As we retired to the equipment room to change from space suits to flight suits, we just sat there-we hadn't spoken a word since "the pass." Finally, Walter looked at me and said, "One hundred fifty-six knots. What did you see?" Trying to find my voice, I stammered, "One hundred fifty-two." We sat in silence for a moment. Then Walt said, "Don't ever do that to me again!" And I never did. A year later, Walter and I were having lunch in the Mildenhall Officer's club, and overheard an officer talking to some cadets about an SR-71 fly-past that he had seen one day. Of course, by now the story included kids falling off the tower and screaming as the heat of the jet singed their eyebrows. Noticing our HABU patches, as we stood there with lunch trays in our hands, he asked us to verify to the cadets that such a thing had occurred. Walt just shook his head and said, "It was probably just a routine low approach; they're pretty impressive in that plane." Impressive indeed. Little did I realize after relaying this experience to my audience that day that it would become one of the most popular and most requested stories. It's ironic that people are interested in how slow the world's fastest jet can fly. Regardless of your speed, however, it's always a good idea to keep that cross-check up, and keep your Mach up, too. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thoughts on Commander 680V
From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com>
Date: Jan 11, 2010
Good Morning Everyone, I'm currently considering the possibility of trading into a Commander 680V from my current P-Baron. I'm wondering if anyone on the list here might have some experience with the 680 T, V, or W series of aircraft and be willing to share their thoughts and insight (positive or negative) on these planes. I understand that the engines ( -34A ) are somewhat orphaned but that there may still be a couple shops supporting them. It's also my understanding that most of the airframe parts are shared with the 680FL(p). Please correct me on these items if I'm wrong. Naturally I'm interested in any information you're willing to share, of particular interest however would be real world experiences on what one should expect for TAS and fuel burn, common maintenance issues, and areas to pay particular attention to during a pre-purchase inspection. Again, any thoughts, comments, or experiences that you're willing to share are appreciated. Sincerely, John Atkin IV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281050#281050 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 13, 2010
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Contact Morris Kernick 321-403-8813. Good luck. jb -----Original Message----- From: John IV <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 9:19 am Subject: Commander-List: Thoughts on Commander 680V Good Morning Everyone, I'm currently considering the possibility of trading into a Commander 680V from y current P-Baron. I'm wondering if anyone on the list here might have so me xperience with the 680 T, V, or W series of aircraft and be willing to sha re heir thoughts and insight (positive or negative) on these planes. I understand that the engines ( -34A ) are somewhat orphaned but that ther e may till be a couple shops supporting them. It's also my understanding that most f the airframe parts are shared with the 680FL(p). Please correct me on these tems if I'm wrong. Naturally I'm interested in any information you're willing to share, of articular interest however would be real world experiences on what one sho uld xpect for TAS and fuel burn, common maintenance issues, and areas to pay articular attention to during a pre-purchase inspection. Again, any thoughts, comments, or experiences that you're willing to share are ppreciated. Sincerely, John Atkin IV ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281050#281050 ======================== =========== -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com>
Date: Jan 13, 2010
JB, Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. John IV PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 13, 2010
Hi John IV, Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! Best Regards, Barry Collman Aero Commander Specialist Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | JB, | | Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. | | John IV | | PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? | | | | | Read this topic online here: | | http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 13, 2010
I saw it on the list, John. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John IV Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V JB, Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. John IV PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com>
Date: Jan 13, 2010
Barry & Nico, Thank you both for your reply. I just wanted to make sure the post had made it to the email list. The lack of responses was making me a bit suspicious that something had gone awry. Thanks again for your verification. John IV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281333#281333 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com>
Date: Jan 13, 2010
John, I got your request and I am surprised that no one replyed. Do you know much about the 680 turbo prop series. They all have or had the 3000 PSI hydraulic system turning a pump that does the pressurization in the cabin. I know one of our members has a 681 and the pressurization has been removed. The Century series conversions changed to bleed air pressurization as well as the different engine -150. The 690's came that way from the factory. Tylor Hall On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:10 PM, John IV wrote: > > JB, > > Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. > > John IV > > PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2010
From: swperk(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Hi John, I have a 681 Turbo Commander (2 models after the 680V) and it has had the Century engine conversion done, changing from the original TPE331-43BL engines to the TPE331-1-151K engines. One of the major changes from the 680T/V/W/ series to the 681 was factory installed bleed air pressurization. Having said that, my dad used to own a 680W with -43BL engines and it had bleed air pressurization. One of the advantages of a 680V is that it is exempt from the 208A service bulletin that requires a recurring 36-month spar inspection. Whether that outweighs the disadvantage of having a plane with engines that are minimally supported is a decision that you will have to make. I'd be happy to talk to you more about any questions you may have, but I have to agree with JB that Morris is by far and away the expert on these planes. Regards, Stan N681SP -----Original Message----- >From: Tylor Hall <tylorhall(at)mac.com> >Sent: Jan 13, 2010 1:34 PM >To: commander-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V > > >John, >I got your request and I am surprised that no one replyed. > >Do you know much about the 680 turbo prop series. >They all have or had the 3000 PSI hydraulic system turning a pump that does the pressurization in the cabin. >I know one of our members has a 681 and the pressurization has been removed. > >The Century series conversions changed to bleed air pressurization as well as the different engine -150. The 690's came that way from the factory. > >Tylor Hall > > >On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:10 PM, John IV wrote: > >> >> JB, >> >> Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. >> >> John IV >> >> PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 13, 2010
Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it back. Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. Jim N444BD -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Hi John IV, Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! Best Regards, Barry Collman Aero Commander Specialist Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | JB, | | Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. | | John IV | | PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information went out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? | | | | | Read this topic online here: | | http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com>
Date: Jan 13, 2010
Stan et. al., Thanks for all of the replies this evening. I'm not particularly well versed in the 680 series of planes, but have spent the last few days digging through the maint. manual, IPC, service letters and flight manual to learn the various systems. I have to say that it's perhaps not put together quite the way I would have done it (hydraulic motor powered cabin huffer etc) but nothing has jumped out at me as being terribly outlandish so far. My biggest concern and my reason for making the original posting was to see if anyone knew of any weak points in these aircraft that one should worry about ie. does xxx have a tendency to break at regular intervals or does yyy have a history of failing more often than a similar system on a similar aircraft. I understand the orphaned nature of the airframe and particularly the engines and while those certainly aren't things working in the planes favor they're items that I'm willing to live with IF the aircraft and its systems are well made and reliable (not more prone to failure to a similar aircraft of similar vintage). Thanks again for the tips, and please keep them coming. I'm all ears for anything you're willing to share. John IV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281395#281395 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Hi Jim, Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole. It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had to fry them to hear what we were talking about ;-) Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill | factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it | back. | Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. | Jim | N444BD | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com | [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry | Collman | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM | To: commander-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> | | Hi John IV, | | Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! | | Best Regards, | Barry Collman | Aero Commander Specialist | Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> | To: | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM | Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | || || JB, || || Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. || || John IV || || PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information | went | out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? || || || || || Read this topic online here: || || http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 || || || || || || || || || || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Sir Barry, that's just tooooo cold. Can you imagine what would've happened if we didn't have global warming? -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:27 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V --> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Hi Jim, Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole. It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had to fry them to hear what we were talking about ;-) Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill | factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it | back. | Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. | Jim | N444BD | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com | [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry | Collman | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM | To: commander-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> | | Hi John IV, | | Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! | | Best Regards, | Barry Collman | Aero Commander Specialist | Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> | To: | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM | Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | || || JB, || || Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. || || John IV || || PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information | went | out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? || || || || || Read this topic online here: || || http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 || || || || || || || || || || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Hi Nico, Well what us Brits ought to be doing right now is to shovel all the snow & ice into large lorries (trucks), take them to the coast and dump it into the sea. The polar ice caps will then be restored - problem solved. Easy! Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:02 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | Sir Barry, that's just tooooo cold. Can you imagine what would've happened | if we didn't have global warming? | | | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com | [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry | Collman | Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:27 AM | To: commander-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | --> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> | | Hi Jim, | | Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down | to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole. | | It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had | to fry them to hear what we were talking about ;-) | | Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back. | | Best Regards, | Barry | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> | To: | Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:52 AM | Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | | || || Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill || factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it || back. || Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. || Jim || N444BD || -----Original Message----- || From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com || [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry || Collman || Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM || To: commander-list(at)matronics.com || Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V || || <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> || || Hi John IV, || || Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! || || Best Regards, || Barry Collman || Aero Commander Specialist || Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. || || ----- Original Message ----- || From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> || To: || Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM || Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V || || ||| ||| JB, ||| ||| Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. ||| ||| John IV ||| ||| PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information || went || out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| Read this topic online here: ||| ||| http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| || || || || || || || || || || || || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
I always heard the first guy did not have a chance. -28, now that is cold and having to fry the words is really, really cold. It is supposed to get in to the 60's here this week. You and Elaine may have to come over to Texas and warm up. Best regards to you too, Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:27 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Hi Jim, Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole. It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had to fry them to hear what we were talking about ;-) Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill | factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it | back. | Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. | Jim | N444BD | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com | [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry | Collman | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM | To: commander-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> | | Hi John IV, | | Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! | | Best Regards, | Barry Collman | Aero Commander Specialist | Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> | To: | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM | Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | || || JB, || || Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. || || John IV || || PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information | went | out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? || || || || || Read this topic online here: || || http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 || || || || || || || || || || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
From: "Keith S. Gordon" <cloudcraft(at)aol.com>
I have to say that it's perhaps not put together quite the way I would have done it (hydraulic motor powered cabin huffer etc) but nothing has jumped out at me as being terribly outlandish so far. John, If you had designed the airplane with the technology at hand at the time, you would have used the same systems and components. Beech used the same set up to pressurize the Queen Air 88 and the King Air A-90. What isn't jumping out at you but is hiding deep in the airplane is some of what's already been pointed out to you by Tylor Hall. The New York Ai rbrake 3000 psi hydraulic pumps are the Achilles' heel of the non-bleed ai r 680 Turbine models. They are difficult to find and let me caution you against anyone's idea of field-modifying the 1000 psi version of this pum p to produce 3000 psi. That was tried on a 680V I operated and we ate hy draulic pumps in about 20 hours or less each time. Next we have the Fairchild air cycle machine. Great unit ... back in the 1960s. Check with Morris Kernick on availability and cost of that unit. Not a high failure rate item, but when it blows its beets, are you going to find one at a reasonable cost? As far as performance, keep in mind that pre-Century series Garrett engine s, the -43 series, merely matched the big piston engines of the day (Lycom ing IGSO-540) in power more or less, with the exception that you'd lose po wer with temperature and altitude very quickly. Thus, any take off at an altitude over a sea level DENALT is suffering. The -43 powered 680 series are in the 180 - 210 knot cruise band at altit udes in the high teens; 16,000' DENALT is about its optimum. I point th at out because most of us assume that a turbine powered airplane is going to fly like ... what, gentlemen? Yes! A Stripped-Ass Ape! I realize I may have scorched the reputation of the 680T and V commanders but what I've told you is either the truth or my opinion. You decide. Mo rris Kernick will either confirm or correct anything I've said that isn't so. Engine support you've already been briefed on. How about the electrical system? I flew a 680V for some time with a client and I swear, we NEVER figured out how the thing was wired from the factory and subsequent mods. Luckily, we never had an electrical emergency because I was unable to te ach the system in that airplane. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? By the way, a Century series conversion or 681 are excellent examples of what a turbine powered Commander can be. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. -----Original Message----- From: John IV <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 9:15 pm Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V Stan et. al., Thanks for all of the replies this evening. I'm not particularly well versed in the 680 series of planes, but have spe nt the last few days digging through the maint. manual, IPC, service letters and flight manual to learn the various systems. I have to say that it's perhaps not put together quite the way I would have done it (hydraulic motor powered cabin huffer etc) but nothing has jumped out at me as being terribly outlandish so far. My biggest concern and my reason for making the original posting was to se e if anyone knew of any weak points in these aircraft that one should worry abo ut ie. does xxx have a tendency to break at regular intervals or does yyy have a history of failing more often than a similar system on a similar aircraft. I understand the orphaned nature of the airframe and particularly the engi nes and while those certainly aren't things working in the planes favor they'r e items that I'm willing to live with IF the aircraft and its systems are we ll made and reliable (not more prone to failure to a similar aircraft of simi lar vintage). Thanks again for the tips, and please keep them coming. I'm all ears for anything you're willing to share. John IV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281395#281395 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Last week we were sure trying to find those people that have ripped the country and the world off for millions doing a false study on global warming. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V Sir Barry, that's just tooooo cold. Can you imagine what would've happened if we didn't have global warming? -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:27 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V --> <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> Hi Jim, Well, last week at RAF Benson, which really isn't that far away, it got down to -28 and that was only 2 degrees warmer than at the South Pole. It was so cold that as Elaine & I spoke, the words froze on the air. We had to fry them to hear what we were talking about ;-) Sorry Jim, but it's on the way back. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:52 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | Hey Barry, You got the cold we sent. It got down to 8 degrees with a chill | factor of -5. That is cold for 30 north of Dallas. Please don't send it | back. | Here is hoping you have a Happy New Year. | Jim | N444BD | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com | [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry | Collman | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:16 PM | To: commander-list(at)matronics.com | Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk> | | Hi John IV, | | Your email got to my Inbox OK, over here in cold, snowy England! | | Best Regards, | Barry Collman | Aero Commander Specialist | Air-Britain (Historians) Ltd. | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "John IV" <n69ck(at)beechowners.com> | To: | Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:10 PM | Subject: Commander-List: Re: Thoughts on Commander 680V | | || || JB, || || Thanks for the tip, I will give Morris a call. || || John IV || || PS. Can anyone verify whether or not my original request for information | went | out over the email list or if it's just here on the forum? || || || || || Read this topic online here: || || http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281329#281329 || || || || || || || || || || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Great Letter
Date: Jan 14, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2010
From: Brock Lorber <blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>
Subject: Re: Great Letter
David Owens wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mike floyd <floydgm(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FW:
Date: Jan 14, 2010
I am sure you have seen some of them Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death ... I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80=2C000 Feet and Climbing! (Sign over the entrance to the old SR-71 operating base Kadena=2C Japan). You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3. (Paul F. Crickmore -test pilot) The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. Blue water Navy truism: There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky. (From an old carrier sailor) If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage=2C it's probably a heli copter -- and therefore=2C unsafe. Without ammunition=2C the USAF would be just another expensive flying club. What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots? If a pil ot screws up=2C the pilot dies=3B If ATC screws up ... the pilot dies. Never trade luck for skill. The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: " Why is it doing that?"=2C "Where are we?" and "Oh S--t!!!!" Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers. Progress in airline flying: Now a flight attendant can get a pilot pregnant . Airspeed=2C altitude and brains. Two are always needed to successfully comp lete the flight. A smooth landing is mostly luck=3B two in a row is all luck=3B three in a r ow is prevarication. I remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous. Mankind has a perfect record in aviation=3B we never left anyone up there! Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpo se of storing dead batteries! Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of under-standing or doing anything about it. When a flight is proceeding incredibly well=2C something was forgotten. Just remember=2C if you crash because of weather=2C your funeral will be he ld on a sunny day. Advice given to RAF pilots during WWII: When a prang (crash) seems inevitab le=2C endeavor to strike the softest=2C cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible. The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world=3B ...it can just barely kill you. (Attributed to Max Stanley=2C Northrop test pilot) The Altitude above you=2C the runway behind you=2C and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless!!! (Sonny Kellum=2C Flight Instructor) A pilot's job is very simple.... there are 3 lights on an aircraft=2C red o n left wing tip=2C green on right wing tip=2C white on the tail..... Your j ob=2C as a pilot is to keep the plane between these 3 lights!!!! (Sonny Kellum=2C Flight Instructor) A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its ma ximum. (Jon McBride=2C astronaut) If you're faced with a forced landing=2C fly the thing as far into the cras h as possible. (Bob Hoover - renowned aerobatic and test pilot) Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you!! There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime. (Sign over squadron OPS desk at Davis-Monthan AFB=2C AZ=2C 1970). The three best things in life are a good landing=2C a good orgasm=2C and=2C a good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportu nities in life where you get to experience all three at the same time. (Author unknown=2C but surely someone who's been there) If something hasn't broken on your helicopter=2C it's about to!! Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The e dges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground=2C buildings =2C sea=2C trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly t here. The 2 most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity and I don't know which is the more. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. 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From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: Great Letter
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Yea, It was good, however the server morphed it into this... hehehe... I guess it didn't like the pics... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: Great Letter
Date: Jan 14, 2010
Excuse me Mr. Obama, I mean President Obama, Sir. Um . . I know you're busy, and important and stuff. I mean, running the country is very important and -- ah -- I hate to bother you, Sir. I will only take a minute. Ok, Sir? See, I have these missing pieces that are holding me up, and I was wondering, Sir, if you could take time out of your busy schedule and help me out. You know, no big deal, just some loose ends and things. Hey, you have a nice place here! The wife sees houses like this on TV all the time and says, boy, she wishes she had digs like this, you know? Is that painting real? Really? Wow! I saw something like that in a museum once... Oh, sorry Sir. I didn't mean to get off the track. So if you could just help me out a minute and give me some details, I will get right out of your way.. I want to close this case and maybe take the wife to Coney Island or something. Ever been to Coney Island Sir? No? I didn't think so.... Well, listen, anyway, I can't seem to get some information I need to wrap this up. These things seem to either be "Not released" or "Not available." I'm sure it's just an oversight or glitch or something, so if you could you tell me where these things are I have them written down here somewhere -- oh wait. I'll just read it to you. Could you please help me find these things, Sir? 1. Occidental College records -- Not released 2.. Columbia College records -- Not released 3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available" 4. Harvard College records -- Not released 5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released 6. Medical records -- Not released 7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available 8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available 9.. Law practice client list -- Not released 10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released 11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released 12. Record of your baptism -- Not available 13. Why your wife, Michelle, can no longer practice law as an attorney? (Insurance Fraud?_ 14. Why your wife has 22 assistants, when other First Ladies had one? 15. Why were you getting "foreign student aid" as a college student? 16. Which countries "passport" did you have when you visited Pakistan in 1981? Oh and one more thing Mr.. President, I can't seem to find any articles you published as editor of the Harvard Law Review, or as a Professor at the University of Chicago . Can you explain that to me, Sir? Oh, but hey -- listen! I know you're busy! If this is too much for you right now -- I mean -- tell you what. I'll come back tomorrow. Give you some time to get these things together, you know? I mean, I know you're busy. I'll just let myself out. I'll be back tomorrow. And the day after.... . .. What's that Mr. President? Who wants to know these things? We the People of the United States of America ! You know, the ones that vote. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Great Scott
Date: Jan 19, 2010
We escaped by the skin of our teeth! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Owens" <dowens(at)aerialviewpoint.com>
Subject: Re: Great Scott
Date: Jan 20, 2010
Courtesy of WWII Navy Veteran Bob Carboney A guy goes into a bar and there is a robot bartender.The robot says, "What will you have? The guy says, "Martini." The robot brings back the best martini ever and says to the man, "What's your IQ?" The man says, "168." The robot then proceeds to talk about physics, space exploration, and medical technology. The guy leaves, but he is curious, so he goes back into the bar. The robot bartender says, "What will you have?" The guy says, "Martini". Again, the robot makes a great martini, gives it to the man and says, "What's your IQ?" The guy says, "100." The robot then starts to talk about Nascar, Budweiser and John Deere tractors. The guy leave's but finds it very interesting so he thinks he will try it one more time. He goes back into the bar. The robot says, "What will you have?" The guy says, "Martini. The robot again brings him a perfect martini, and then says, "What's your IQ?" The guy says, "Uh, about 50." The robot leans in real close and says, "So ... you people still happy you voted for Obama?" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 20, 2010
From: <n55bz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Great Scott
We escaped by the Grace of God. Kindest regards, Bill ---- nico css wrote: > We escaped by the skin of our teeth! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: FW: [TruthByRushDelivery] What are we thinking?
Date: Jan 22, 2010
Finally, another brain spike! <http://truth.byrushdelivery.com/2010/01/what-are-we-thinking.html> TruthByRushDelivery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: An Eisenhower Commander
Date: Jan 29, 2010
Hi All, I've recently found out that the Regional Military Museum, in Houma, Louisiana are to acquire the last Commander in the USAF order for 15. It is a Model 680 (L-26C / U-4B) and was delivered to the USAF's Military Air Transport Service, 1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport Squadron (Special Missions) on April 11th 1956. So, this is one of the Commanders almost certainly used by President Eisenhower from time to time. I have given the Museum a suggestion as to a possible source of logs that might tell if he actually had control on any flights. This Commander is being acquired from the Wedell-Williams Aviation Museum, in Patterson, Louisiana. Originally, the wings were to be removed outboard of the nacelles in order to road transport the aircraft to its new location. However, after I told them that is going to really spoil an important piece of history as, being a one-piece spar they would have to cut the wings off, they made enquiries and found that they cannot do that, as they will not be the owner of the Commander. My records indicate it is owned by the State of Louisiana and was donated by them to the Wedell-Williams Museum. The Regional Military Museum are therefore seeking some advice on how to proceed with project and I feel sure we have people who can help. Anyone willing to help save a piece of history? This Commander's sister-ship is, of course, in the Presidential hangar at the National Museum of the USAF, at the Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, having been faithfully restored and officially unveiled and dedicated there on July 16th 1998. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: An Eisenhower Commander
Date: Jan 29, 2010
Barry, What is the present condition of the airframe? Does it have engines? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Hi All, I've recently found out that the Regional Military Museum, in Houma, Louisiana are to acquire the last Commander in the USAF order for 15. It is a Model 680 (L-26C / U-4B) and was delivered to the USAF's Military Air Transport Service, 1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport Squadron (Special Missions) on April 11th 1956. So, this is one of the Commanders almost certainly used by President Eisenhower from time to time. I have given the Museum a suggestion as to a possible source of logs that might tell if he actually had control on any flights. This Commander is being acquired from the Wedell-Williams Aviation Museum, in Patterson, Louisiana. Originally, the wings were to be removed outboard of the nacelles in order to road transport the aircraft to its new location. However, after I told them that is going to really spoil an important piece of history as, being a one-piece spar they would have to cut the wings off, they made enquiries and found that they cannot do that, as they will not be the owner of the Commander. My records indicate it is owned by the State of Louisiana and was donated by them to the Wedell-Williams Museum. The Regional Military Museum are therefore seeking some advice on how to proceed with project and I feel sure we have people who can help. Anyone willing to help save a piece of history? This Commander's sister-ship is, of course, in the Presidential hangar at the National Museum of the USAF, at the Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, having been faithfully restored and officially unveiled and dedicated there on July 16th 1998. Best Regards, Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: An Eisenhower Commander
Date: Jan 29, 2010
Hi John, >From photos I have, that I think were taken outside the Wedell-Williams Museum, the aircraft is complete, with engines. Condition looks pretty good, but most of the fuselage is hidden by tarpaulin covers. The engines may have been similarly covered, but the tarpaulin may have been partially removed for the photos, I'm not sure. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Barry, What is the present condition of the airframe? Does it have engines? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:54 AM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Hi All, I've recently found out that the Regional Military Museum, in Houma, Louisiana are to acquire the last Commander in the USAF order for 15. It is a Model 680 (L-26C / U-4B) and was delivered to the USAF's Military Air Transport Service, 1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport Squadron (Special Missions) on April 11th 1956. So, this is one of the Commanders almost certainly used by President Eisenhower from time to time. I have given the Museum a suggestion as to a possible source of logs that might tell if he actually had control on any flights. This Commander is being acquired from the Wedell-Williams Aviation Museum, in Patterson, Louisiana. Originally, the wings were to be removed outboard of the nacelles in order to road transport the aircraft to its new location. However, after I told them that is going to really spoil an important piece of history as, being a one-piece spar they would have to cut the wings off, they made enquiries and found that they cannot do that, as they will not be the owner of the Commander. My records indicate it is owned by the State of Louisiana and was donated by them to the Wedell-Williams Museum. The Regional Military Museum are therefore seeking some advice on how to proceed with project and I feel sure we have people who can help. Anyone willing to help save a piece of history? This Commander's sister-ship is, of course, in the Presidential hangar at the National Museum of the USAF, at the Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, having been faithfully restored and officially unveiled and dedicated there on July 16th 1998. Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>
Subject: An Eisenhower Commander
Date: Jan 29, 2010
You know my attitude...put some band-aids on it and have Captain Jimbob FLY it to its new destination! Who wouldn't want to fly a piece of history...especially "Air Force One"? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Hi John, >From photos I have, that I think were taken outside the Wedell-Williams Museum, the aircraft is complete, with engines. Condition looks pretty good, but most of the fuselage is hidden by tarpaulin covers. The engines may have been similarly covered, but the tarpaulin may have been partially removed for the photos, I'm not sure. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum <mailto:john(at)vormbaum.com> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Barry, What is the present condition of the airframe? Does it have engines? _____ From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Hi All, I've recently found out that the Regional Military Museum, in Houma, Louisiana are to acquire the last Commander in the USAF order for 15. It is a Model 680 (L-26C / U-4B) and was delivered to the USAF's Military Air Transport Service, 1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport Squadron (Special Missions) on April 11th 1956. So, this is one of the Commanders almost certainly used by President Eisenhower from time to time. I have given the Museum a suggestion as to a possible source of logs that might tell if he actually had control on any flights. This Commander is being acquired from the Wedell-Williams Aviation Museum, in Patterson, Louisiana. Originally, the wings were to be removed outboard of the nacelles in order to road transport the aircraft to its new location. However, after I told them that is going to really spoil an important piece of history as, being a one-piece spar they would have to cut the wings off, they made enquiries and found that they cannot do that, as they will not be the owner of the Commander. My records indicate it is owned by the State of Louisiana and was donated by them to the Wedell-Williams Museum. The Regional Military Museum are therefore seeking some advice on how to proceed with project and I feel sure we have people who can help. Anyone willing to help save a piece of history? This Commander's sister-ship is, of course, in the Presidential hangar at the National Museum of the USAF, at the Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, having been faithfully restored and officially unveiled and dedicated there on July 16th 1998. Best Regards, Barry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: An Eisenhower Commander
Date: Jan 29, 2010
Well John . . . I had a similar thought ;-) Have no idea where the Museum is though, in relation to an airport. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander You know my attitude...put some band-aids on it and have Captain Jimbob FLY it to its new destination! Who wouldn't want to fly a piece of history...especially "Air Force One"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Collman Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:04 PM To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander Hi John, From photos I have, that I think were taken outside the Wedell-Williams Museum, the aircraft is complete, with engines. Condition looks pretty good, but most of the fuselage is hidden by tarpaulin covers. The engines may have been similarly covered, but the tarpaulin may have been partially removed for the photos, I'm not sure. Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vormbaum To: commander-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: An Eisenhower Commander


November 05, 2009 - January 29, 2010

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