Europa-Archive.digest.vol-af
August 31, 1996 - October 28, 1996
Recently Graham Singleton wrote:
> You'll find plenty of help and encouragement here. Best, however would be to
> find a local builder and go have a look, so you can anticipate the problems.
The
> only serious problem (apart from cash) is allergy to epoxy. You have to keep
the
> stuff at arms length right from the beginning.
Thanks for the welcome Graham (and Tony Krzyzewski), I'm trying to seek a local
builder
to me but alas not arrived to any conslusions just yet, anyone know of any around
the
Cardiff, United Kingdom area? I'd be prepared (very very prepared!) to travel
to London,
Birmingham, Liverpool (and places as finding a builder here will suprise me very
much!
Thanks for the epoxy warning, I've been following the articles in Flyer (a magazine
in Britain) as they are building their own Europa. Actually this is where I came
across the Europa Aircraft and have admired the plane ever since (although I haven't
had chance to have a test flight in one yet).
> Tell us where you live. Presumably Britain?
Oops, sorry, thats something that I should have said in my first mail! I live
in a
small capital City by the name of Cardiff in South Wales, United Kingdom.
Has anyone created any decent homepages documenting their experiences with the
Europa
Aircraft Kit?
This leaves another point, I'd prefer to be able to find a builder local to me
who's
building the Tri-Gear version of the Europa as this is the version I will build
when the time comes, even though its documented to be a few knots slower than the
monowheel version (according to Flyer magazine in Britain).
Anyway got to finish this email here and get some C/C++ done (heavy programming
session coming up I think!)
Best wishes everyone,
EMail from Richard Thomas in Cardiff, United Kingdom
------------------------------+----------------------------------
richard@olympics.demon.co.uk | http://www.olympics.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------+----------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
Alan Stewart's Europa flew it's first flight today with Melvin Cross at Kemble
doing the honours. This is a standard 912 Europa, except that it has no sight
guage, a Westach capacitance fuel guage instead. No problems were reported.
Performance as expected, I understand.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
We now have 61 hours on GK Whip. 26 hours on the Arplast PV 50 in flight
variable pitch prop. Max speed at 2,500 ft is 135 kts, compared to 130 kts with
the Warp Drive set at 17.5 deg pitch (at the tip). Both speeds at 5,700 rpm.
We like the Arplast although I feel it has more to give yet. Optimisation of the
blades might get us nearer the 145 kts claimed by Walter Binder. Anyone know
what height he achieved that speed? The Arplast has been removed for checks.
There is no apparent wear of the mechanism. Jerry Davies has gone to France for
discussions with Arplast as to the next step.
The cooling has been no problem at all, neither have we had any sign of fuel
vapourisation. I'd have been worried if we had, in view of the fuel purge line
fitted to GK Whip. In spite of the fact that the oil never exceeds 90 deg C and
water 110 the mechanical fuel pump has reached 71 deg C. presumably heat soak
from the gearbox. We once saw very low fuel pressure for a few seconds starting
the engine 1/2 an hour after landing. Seems to indicate that the fuel purge
works. The bleed back is even smaller than the .3 mm Rotax recommend.
My feeling is that we have some extra cooling drag due to the increased airflow
through the cowls. Next winter, or when we get bored flying !:-? whichever is
the sooner I plan to make a new cowl more on the style of Walter Binder's
design. I think the cleaner exit for high speed air behind the prop disk has to
give some benefit. A single radiator might also reduce the cooling drag.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
Hi,
A new builder from 'down-under'. I have ordered the kitset for shipment
about now to arrive in NZ late October. I think the 6th builder in NZ.
(Kitset# 292). Very excited. Pilot for Air NZ flying the 747-400 hence in
the UK alot hopefully to meet pilots/builders in the UK and visit Europa
Aviation.Have ordered only stages 1,2,3 for shipment leaving Stage 4 and
the engine to observe the developments.
Keep your speed up in the turns.
Cheers.
Tim Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Where do I live? |
> Has anyone created any decent homepages documenting their experiences
with the Europa
> Aircraft Kit?
>
I don't know about decent, but you could try...
http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Name: Tony Krzyzewski
Date: 09/02/96
Time: 16:41:56
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
Ah so that's the real source - thankfully my need for them is now past
but I am sure Europa builders in general would benefit from them. Perhaps
you can persuade the Europa factory to supply them with (as they
apparently did early on.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Single handed manoevres |
Tony wrote
>>Starboard tailplane gave birth to a trim tab last night<<
Hope they are maintaining a nice symmetry when engaged (so young) with
the tab drive tube. Mine were made before the method was changed and
needed offset holes in the bushes rotated to adjust for equality.
Interesting thing is whether with all the assymetry from prop wash one
should really bother ? I will soon be able to do some experiments.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
If anybody has wired up a TERRA TX 760D Comm Transciever with Vox/Intercom , I'd
appreciate some help. I'm not at all clear what pin 13 is for, or how to locate
the jumpers.
Regards,
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single handed manoevres |
>>whether with all the assymetry from prop wash one should really bother<<
I once saw an aircraft flown with the elevators 1/2" out of alignment at the
trailing edge. The pilot couldn't tell the difference. The same thought occured
to me at the time. It would certainly be noticed if it was the wing, though.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
I am on the verge of ordering a Whelan strobe kit (power supply, cable and
strobe) from the ubiquitous Aircraft Spruce. The catalogue implies there
are two routes to follow:
1. Get a light power supply and have it close to the strobe, so that there
is a minimum of high voltage cabling. This may cause C of G issues for a
tail strobe?
2. Put the power supply nearer the C of G and have a length of high voltage
cable.
My inclination is to put the power supply behind the main bulkhead, and keep
the cable away from the radio co-ax (going to the radio aerial in the rudder
post)and the transponder aerial (location as yet unknown, but likely to be
underside mid way between bulkhead and fin?).
Is my thinking correct and this compromise will work and not foul up the
radio and transponder, or should I look at putting the power supply in the fin?
Regards,
John Bampfylde, #130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I am on the verge of ordering a Whelan strobe kit<<
Hold on a minute! Before you order, talk to Peter Smoothy at Airworld UK. 01 296
714 900. They were at Cranfield with a very neat looking strobe system. More to
the point, I gained a strong impression that they knew what they were talking
about. I haven't been too impressed with Whelan stuff, which being certified,
still uses ancient technology and is consequently less reliable. Why pay for
FAA protection money? Or CAA if it comes to that.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChuckPops(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Single handed manoevres |
Please expand on the spar guide concept, as this is totally new to me.
First, is the purpose of the guides to constrain the spars during rigging in
the vertical direction or in the longitudinal? How are they attached to the
fuselage structure? Are they simply an additional aid to guide the spar stub
into the spar end cups? Has this been written up anywhere?
I have had the opportunity to assist in rigging Roger Sheridan's demo Europa,
and had not missed the lack of spar guides. But maybe with singlehanding
things would be different!
Thanks in advance.
Chuck Popenoe
A36
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
| Subject: | Re: Tailfin Strobes |
>>>I am on the verge of ordering a Whelan strobe kit<<
>
>Hold on a minute! Before you order, talk to Peter Smoothy at Airworld UK.
01 296
>714 900. They were at Cranfield with a very neat looking strobe system. More to
>the point, I gained a strong impression that they knew what they were talking
>about. I haven't been too impressed with Whelan stuff, which being certified,
>still uses ancient technology and is consequently less reliable. Why pay for
>FAA protection money? Or CAA if it comes to that.
>
>Graham
Graham,
Many thanks, I'm intrigued. Does he have a fax or email address? Or even
snail mail address?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
The facts.
G-EMIN was recently parked fully fuelled in a guarded outdoor compound
(RAF). Witnesses later reported fuel "pouring from the top of the
fuselage. (I would not like to speculate on the result had a smoker
approached the aircraft). Stains from the fuel ran from the upper vent(s)
down both sides of the fuselage, but any fuel on the ground had
evaporated in the sunshine. The tank level was significantly lower,
probably a gallon or more but the sight gauge was not accurately
calibrated at the time.
The explanation ?
Fuelling with the tail down can result in the vent outlet becoming
covered before fuel fills the forward upper part of the tank. The trapped
air expands when heated sufficiently to overcome the
head necessary to expel fuel out of the vent. So the effect is at its
worst when half the volume above the vent outlet is filled with fuel
(neglecting compressibility). Even fuelling in a level attitude would
still leave a considerable volume of air in the fuelling hose to perform
the same action.
The solution ? The vent should be in the top of the tank at the highest
point in any achievable fuelling attitude. What better place than the
fuel cap itself ? (You could then dispense with a piped vent altogether).
The fuel cap supplied actually has four holes already drilled through
the plastic bit into the space above, but hermetic sealing is maintained
by two further O-rings. When I released it just now it hissed ! though
it has been in the garage for days. I propose to remove the small O-ring
surrounding the release shaft to see if this is sufficient. Till then,
keep it cool.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Single handed manoevres |
For vertical alignment I have hardwood strips, for the port wing bolted
through the cockpit wall and supporting the last foot of run-in to the
cup; for the starboard wing, similarly placed but reduxed to port wing
spar. For fore/aft entry I tried welding on a cup lip extension, but you
cannot get enough funnelling to make it worthwhile due to interference
with the bell-crank on entry. Tapering the spar ends helps, but one must
be cautious here with such an important member. But most important are
guides on the bottom of the fuselage entry holes to prevent the spar root
slipping towards the tail, (reduxed and screwed hardwood again).
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel venting danger |
Thanks for the advice Graham. Keep carrying that cat when you
fly, to mop up any spilt fuel...might clean the paint off it
too....
Another method may be to raise the fuel vent point by
placing a tube inside the alloy fitting (reduxed in, like the
fuel outlets), extending forwards and upwards towards the top
corner. This would allow the tank to be filled more whilst on its
tailwheel.
Downside is it would then have a trap if fuel did get in
it. I suppose you could extend the pipe along the fuzz side
before doubling back to the vent, retaining its rise, to give any
fuel bubble further to run.
If all else fails, lean over and give a good blow down
the vent before you put the filler cap on !
BTW, i rigged the wings and flaps before glueing the fuzz
together, as Graham1 suggested (With Alan's agreement (my
inspector!)). Fuzz cleco'd together fine, wings and fairings on
with no great problem, but so much easier fitting the flaps. whip
the top off to cut and drill for the mounts- maybe thats where
Graham got the reg. from!
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
The factory point out correctly that venting the fuel cap still would not
release air from the forward triangle, and also gives rise the
possibility of unfavourable pressure differences from the aerodynamics.
There seems no alternative to venting from a different place, and they
are working on it.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
Hello all,
Have you fliers got an idea of costs for plugs and
filters for the 912 from Rotax (or another supplier..) yet?
Also, what brand of oil is being used?
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk (Jim Naylor) |
Dear Rolph
Re your Terra 760D com.
Pin 13 is only used if you require an external volume control on the
intercom circuit. I have fitted one to my panel, but do not use it as I
have found one setting is good for all conditions of flight and taxi. The
initial volume can be set by adjusting the controls on the underside of the
radio, so I would recommend trying the radio without the extra control
first, it can always be retro fitted.
Also I have found the background noise in my headsets (David Clarks) very
acceptable with the squelch fully open, thereby avoiding the clipped speech
you tend to get with vox systems, and again saving the trouble of fitting
the extra control.
If you do decide to fit the extra volume (and squelch level) controls you
will have to buy the potentiometers from your local electronics store and
connect as shown in the diagram.
To find the jumpers, you will have to remove the lower casing cover and
look in the position indicated in the diagram no. 9-1160-0044-01, they are
a plug in device, and are numbered SJ601 and SJ602 on the circuit board.
Incidentally, if you have engine ignition interference problems on you
radio I have found a device that seems to cure it.
Regards
Jim
Jim Naylor No 39
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> Have you fliers got an idea of costs for plugs and
filters for the 912 from Rotax (or another supplier..) yet?
Also, what brand of oil is being used?<<
Yes to the oil filter, Peugot 205 or something similar, I'll check for you.
Haven't changed any plugs yet.
We are now on Castrol synthetic. We saw an immediate modest increase in power
and reduction in temperatures when we changed from the ordinary running in oil.
Don't ask for quantification I don't have accurate outside air temps or flying
weights.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Single handed manoevres |
>>is the purpose of the guides to constrain the spars during rigging in
the vertical direction or in the longitudinal?<<
Yes.Most important is the longitudinal. Because the airplane isn't level the
wing will slide backwards and the quick connect pivot bolts will foul. Also
though, height constraint helps to get the lift pins started in their holes.
The tufnol blocks are bonded on with Redux; I always add a couple of big pop
rivets. I also pop rivet the glass reinforcement layups to the quick connect
brackets. In my experience glas epoxied to untreated aluminium usually falls off
after a few years. Hence anodise.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>What better place than the fuel cap itself ? (You could then dispense with a
piped vent altogether).<<
That sounds interesting, let me ( and you others) think about it. You do need a
separate vent when filling from a bowser because the filler pipe will fill
completely at moderately high filling rates. You are right about the unfilled
airspace when the plane is tail down. It is a nuisance when you are planning a
long leg across France.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | olls to join KAB |
Just before I left for CA last week, I told everyone that I might have an
announcement to make when I got back. Well . . .
When we shipped revision 6 to the AeroElectric Connection, I included the last
Hot Flash newsletter from the 'Connection. I told readers that we were going to
start a new, no nonsense, technorag called "TechTips for Amateur Airplane
Builders." The motiviation for this effort was driven by the fact that our
favorite mags from years past seem to have forgotten those who most need their
services!
TechTips was to become the periodical publishing arm of Medicine River Press
replacing our not-so-periodical Hot Flash newsletters. Its charter was to carry
nothing but articles on how to build and service airplanes. No completion
articles, no warbird restoration stories, etc.
I didn't NEED another project but there seemed to be a need for the product. I
met last week with Charlie Coyne who is several issues into his own publishing
venture called Kit Aircraft Builder. I've written several articles for Charlie
and we've exchanged a number of phone calls and e-mail letters. We came to an
agreement on, for lack of a better term, a courtship of our respective efforts.
Here's the deal:
I'll join Charlie's staff as a regular contributing editor to KAB. My tasks for
each issue will include a feature article and a column with technical tidbits
and question/answer service for readers. In return, Charlie will help us
promote the AeroElectric Connection's publishing, parts services and weekend
seminars. Further, we may show up at a few more shows sharing a booth. Neither
of us has to dig into not- so-deep pockets but we are fairly confident of
realizing a good return on "sweat equity."
Those who are already subscribers to the AeroElectric Connection will get a
sample copy of KAB sometime around October 10. The mailing will include an
explanation of plans for the book. Many folk have paid in advance for future
updates which are still going to happen. In fact, having relieved myself of
mechanics of printing and mailing a periodical, I can now concentrate on
filling out the book . . . it needs several more chapters and some serious
updating to the first 5 chapters.
If you're not an AEC subscriber, you might drop a line to Charlie at
102125,2540(at)compuserve.com and twist his arm for a sample issue of KAB.
Charlie, if you're listening, you might hop in here and introduce yourself and
add any appropriate comments.
The future of personally owned performance airplanes is with kit builders.
CBP&M are never going to be the kind of players they were back when 12,000+
airplanes a year were being built in Wichita alone. It's important that we
bootstrap ourselves up to a level of competence EXCEEDING anything that's been
done in the past. It can be accomplished with functioning networks for sharing
useful information. The 'net is one such vehicle. If Charlie and I do our jobs,
KAB and AEC will take up positions at the head of the pack in tech pubs arena.
We would welcome and appreciate your support; but most important, your critical
review.
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
*********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europaav(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (Europa Aviation Ltd) |
Graham 2 wrote detailing problems with fuel venting, and recommended venting
the fuel filler cap.
We reply:-
It is correct that when the tank is full or very nearly full, and
subsequently subjected to some form of heating, the expansion of the fuel
and more particularly of the air in the top of the tank will cause the fuel
to spill out of the vent.
However, although at first sight your proposed method of curing the problem
seems simple, it is in fact dangerous.
If the fuel cap is vented, the pressure in the tank will no longer be set by
the forward facing tank vent, but will be set by the pressure at the cap,
which will probably be lower - but in any case will be different from the
pressure on top of the fuel sight gauge, and therefore the sight gauge will
read wrongly. It would not in any case solve the problem because even though
the fuel filler hose would then be vented, the air trapped in the triangular
cross section of the top of the tank forward of the vent fitting (tail down)
would still not be vented.
Additionally, if you remove the O-ring, rain could get in.
We have carried out an experimental modification on G-ODTI which comprises
an aluminium tube bonded into the back of the F09B vent fitting. This tube
is arranged to bend slightly upwards and to finish close to the front of the
tank right at the top. This way the tank is vented from the highest point,
and the air is not trapped. It has the added advantage that the tank can be
filled fully without having to lift the tail.
Even with this mod, when the tank is filled right to the top of the filler
hose, there will be a small quantity of fuel in the vent pipe up to the
level of the fuel filler cap. When heated, a small amount can still spill
out, but the quantity is very much less, since there is virtually no air in
the system, and the expansion of the liquid is quite small.
Regards
Roger Bull
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DE!LTBONN!WHUELTZ(at)ltbonn.attmail.com (HUELTZ, Wolfgang) |
Encoding-Type: ISO8859.1
Hello Everybody,
my name is Wolfgang Hueltz and I am fairly new to this list.
I am not a builder and so until now there was not very much sense
in doing anything more than just listening in.
Right now I am still in the Phase of looking for a PLACE TO BUILD.
Maybe by any chance (I really think this is quite inprobable) does
anybody
know about a suitable affordable workshop, Garage or the like in the
vicinity of Bonn (Germany).
I have been looking for quite some time now.
This search is not exactly made easier by the fact that I am not
completely
sure how big the workshop has to be (Yes sure as big as possible, but
there
are some considerations as to rent (rather more here I think than in UK
for example
not to speak of the US) and then the whole room has to be kept at a
certain temp.
and humidity and so on (see I really listen to what I am being told in
this list)).
So maybe could anybody (or preferably quite a few) email me their
opinions
on this, or just in what kind of environment they themselves are building
their
Europa.
Thanks everybody=21 I really hope a little bit more hard info about this
will make
my search a little easier.
Bye
Wolfgang :)
PS:
Falls dort drau=DFen auch irgendwo ein Europa-Bauer in Deutschland zuh=F6rt,
w=E4re
es nat=FCrlich riesig nett wenn ich ein paar Fragen wegen den Deutschen
Beh=F6rden,
Versicherung und den zusammenh=E4ngenden Kosten los werden k=F6nnte.
Bitte melde dich doch =FCber email. (whueltz=40ltbonn1.attmail.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Room to build |
Hello Wolfgang
It is best to build at home, and you really do need a 2-car garage,
either side by side or lengthways, and it helps to have somewhere to store parts
while building wings or fitting out the fuselage. You can build somewhere else,
but ask yourself that if you have to travel a few km's, how long will it take to
loose interest and not bother ?
Unless you are in a flat you must have a cellar, probably with heizung,
and you can build all the tail, flaps, ailerons and prepare the wing foam cores
there, moving out to the garage for the wing build - thats what i did.
tornado's have left by then !!
TchuS, dave
kit67
PS, check out the europa builders pages at: HTTP://avnet.co.uk/europa
>Hello Everybody,
>my name is Wolfgang Hueltz and I am fairly new to this list.
>I am not a builder and so until now there was not very much sense
>in doing anything more than just listening in.
>Right now I am still in the Phase of looking for a PLACE TO BUILD.
>Maybe by any chance (I really think this is quite inprobable) does
>anybody
>know about a suitable affordable workshop, Garage or the like in the
>vicinity of Bonn (Germany).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: 912 consumables |
Thanks Graham,
i have found that Halfords own brand oil filter, ref:HOF238,
for a renault(?) fits ok too.
chus dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel venting |
thanks for the note Roger, nice to see you're keeping a close eye
on our mail... ;-)
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
For those who have been asking about soft instrument panels, how about this
line of approach? (Quoted from a list in another part of the forest.)
>>Rutan's Boomerang Leaves Oshkosh Crowds Slack-Jawed
>>
>>On opening day, Burt Rutan arrived at Oshkosh flying perhaps the
>>weirdest-looking aircraft that EAA regulars had ever seen. After a
>>nonstop flight from Mojave, California, Rutan stepped out of his latest
>>aeronautical creation called "Boomerang."
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>An Apple Macintosh Powerbook notebook computer is required equipment to
>>fly the Boomerang, since no engine instruments are installed in the
>>sparse panel. The Mac monitors all flight parameters.
>
>
>That's not all. According to the talk Burt Rutan gave at Oshkosh, the Mac
>in the Boomerang supplies more than the engine instruments. It also
>controls the pressurization of the cabin, and monitors all the
>instrumentation about the plane. (The Boomerang is bedecked with gobs of
>sensors, like it were going to undergo flight testing -- except the
>sensors are a permanent part of the plane) Burt said that the Mac records
>all of the flight data, and that ANY flight ever made by the plane can
>easily be reviewed.
>
>There's also a set of smart alarms, so you can actually use the Mac for
>word processing or whatever while in flight. If anything happens that
>requires your attention, the software will automatically bring it up on
>the screen.
>
>Best part is, if you need a replacement panel, you can just go down to
>your local computer store or even mail order one. And a PowerBook is MUCH
>cheaper than a custom aviation instrumentation panel.
Sounds good to me! (any of you windoze guys want to chance flying behind
your operating system? - sorry, couldn't resist that!)
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
did you say you had a Mac, Rowland....8~)
on a similar note, it is also possible to use your palmtop Psion
to display a moving map output from a Gps: plug a few sensors
into that and it could also monitor your engine instruments too,
probably with alarms like the EIS. Any Psion Psrogrammers amongst
us ?
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>(any of you windoze guys want to chance flying behind your operating system?
-
sorry, couldn't resist that!)<<
Nope. OTH are you telling us Macs never crash?
Seriously, though who needs GUIs except for the displays. The aeroplane doesn't
need displays. The software for Boomerang was written by Burt's son Geof. I
didn't ask what the language was.
I am right behind Burt about instrumentation systems. It doesn't make a lot of
sense to have swiss watch type devices which are fragile, expensive and not all
that reliable. Solid state electronic devices are orders of magnitude cheaper
and probably much more reliable now. Aviation seems to be hooked on 1930s
technology. Who would dream of buying a car with fixed timing magnetos?
Don't know about the sensors all over the Boomerang, but last year Burt was
talking about attitude and position sensing using very accurate radar. He'd been
involved in a remote controled spyplane for the military.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Rowland & Wilma Carson wrote:
> For those who have been asking about soft instrument panels, how about this
> line of approach? (Quoted from a list in another part of the forest.)
>
> >>Rutan's Boomerang Leaves Oshkosh Crowds Slack-Jawed
> >>
> >>On opening day, Burt Rutan arrived at Oshkosh flying perhaps the
> >>weirdest-looking aircraft that EAA regulars had ever seen. After a
> >>nonstop flight from Mojave, California, Rutan stepped out of his latest
> >>aeronautical creation called "Boomerang."
> >>
[snip]
> Sounds good to me! (any of you windoze guys want to chance flying behind
> your operating system? - sorry, couldn't resist that!)
>
> cheers
>
> Rowland
>
>
> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
You might want to check out my archive of the activity on the recently
established "glass-panel" mail list. A lot of activity in the first
month. You can get to it at http://www.evansville.net/~newtech
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Lamb <kerrylamb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
RE: Flying behind anyones OS...not this old boy!
I support these boxes and have seen too many (make that WAY too many) system
bombs on the mac, stop 0xsomething on NT, GPFs in old Windows, and hardware
failures a plenty on both platforms!
I count myself a high tech guy right down to the Novell and NT servers in my
basement, but give me individual components any day! It is one thing to use
a laptop for engine analysis and entirely another as display for realtime
flight instrumentation. Just imagine saying to your passenger something like
"can you take the stick for a few minutes, it looks like I need to run my
virus scanner on the panel"
Heres to hoping even our hard drives don't crash,
Kerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ellerington" <john_ellerington(at)uk.ibm.com> |
Just because an oil filter is the same shape and has the same locating
thread does NOT mean that it can automatically be used as a replacement
for an expensive proprietary filter. In particular, the filter element
has to be matched to the oil pump throughput and the casing must be
sufficiently stressed to withstand any applied pressure/suction.
Finally, the internal relief valve (if there is one!) must be set for
the correct pressure. Frankly, risking an expensive engine for the
sake of saving a few pounds/dollars is poor economics - and don't
expect any sympathy from the engine manufacturer if you try and claim
under warranty when using unofficial spare parts!
(I learned this lesson the hard way, using a Halfords filter on my
boat's diesel engine - result - a GBP3000 repair bill for a crankshaft-up
rebuild!)
***************************************************************
John Ellerington
SuperMIX Project team
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>>It is one thing to use a laptop for engine analysis and entirely another as
display for realtime flight instrumentation.<<
I don't think we need to use anyone's OS for our glass panel. The engine
instrumentation on GK Whip is a Grand RApids EIS, with its own processor and
solid state memory. I don't know if it can crash but GPFs etc don't exist. I
still think all we need is an ASI Altimeter and Compass. The rest can be solid
state with dedicated microprocessors.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Just because an oil filter is the same shape and has the same locating
thread does NOT mean that it can automatically be used as a replacement
for an expensive proprietary filter.<<
True, but we checked the part # of the Rotax unit and found the listed
equivalent. At least I trust it's equivalent.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | evers(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (Eric Evers) |
| Subject: | experience & oil |
Tayside Aviation at Dundee & Glenrothes have been flying 6 Katanas with the
Rotax 912 engines for training since some time last year. They must have
clocked-up a few thousand hours and have their own maintenance operation so
must have much valuable experience of the 912 engine. So who is closest
to Dundee?
On the subject of synthetic oils: a few months ago I changed my car engine
oil to Castrol Magnetec.
I have not seen any advertising blurb but I am convinced that I am getting
significantly more mpg because of it.
On the bottle is an address & phone number for a Castrol Helpdesk: 01793
452222
Customer Service Manager, Castrol (U.K.) Limited, Pipers Way, Swindon,
Wiltshire. SN3 1RE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerry Lamb <kerrylamb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>I don't know if it can crash but GPFs etc don't exist. I still think all we
>need is an ASI Altimeter and Compass. The rest can be solid state with
>dedicated microprocessors.
>
Graham,
I don't disagree, my point is that a general purpose laptop does not seem to
be a grand idea, other than as a development tool for the solid state
purpose built devices that are beginning to replace most of what we
currently use.
Most folks don't understand that with a new generation of processor chip
reaching the market every few months, the box has to be designed to be
trashed in three years, otherwise it would be so expensive no one would buy
it. Who do you know still using a 486 box, do they think it is fast?
Kerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | derekw(at)zamnet.zm (Derek White) |
Hi Everyone!
I am thinking of building a kit-plane and am very interested in the Europa
(no really?!) especially if a four seater is/becomes available or a two
seater with a little more carrying capacity. Has anyone put a little more
power into a europa and found a bit more space?
Thanks, Cheers!
Derek R. White
Managing Director
Zikomo Brewing Co. Ltd.
All Malt, All Taste, All Beer!
Box 31730, Lusaka, Zambia
Tel:260 1 286569/80/85 Tel/Fax:262810
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
> Graham wrote. inter alia -,
>>
> Who do you know still using a 486 box,
Well, actually, this is being written on a 386DX 40MHZ box, using W95 !
do they think it is fast?
I think it is 40MHZ fast !!!
Yes, yes, I know, it's old technology, but it WORKS ! :-))
Martin
--
Martin W. Berner, 26 Mayfield Road, Valsayn Park, Trinidad, The West
Indies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>> general purpose laptop does not seem to be a grand idea, other than as a
development tool<<
I suspect everything is a development tool for Burt Rutan.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Parkes <jp75(at)dial.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | pa mail: Anodising Chromic Method L B Parkes the best source |
> [Prev][Next][Index][Thread]
>
> Anodising
>
>
> * Subject: Anodising
> * From: Roddy Kesterton <101350.2657(at)compuserve.com>
> * Date: 08 May 96 11:41:30 EDT
>
>
> Does anyone have the name and number of a company which does chromic anodising
> in the UK ? All the ones I have called only do sulphuric.
>
> Roddy Kesterton (220)
>
>
>
> * Prev: DANGER! Cr** fuel system
> * Next: Re: New Antipodean Soap
> * Index: Mail Index
> * Thread: Mail Thread Index
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
Hello, all--
I've had the chance to fly about six hours in Boomerang,
including two long cross-countries (on which I saw around 250 KTAS on 20
US gph!). At the same time, I had the chance to watch Burt continually
fiddling with his Powerbook while I flew the airplane...not to mention
one complete crash the first time I rode in it. (Crash of the computer,
not the airplane--although the landing gear folded the first time _Burt_
flew it...)
My impression of the computer system is that this is still a beta test
version; among
other things, the current bar graph displays all run from left to right,
with upper and lower bars for L and R engines, rather than perhaps a more
logical arrangement of L and R "thermometer" pairs for each parameter
(apparently coming in the next program rewrite). It's interesting to
note that while some jets (Citation, Challenger, Rolls-powered versions
of older 747s) use similar (electromechanical) vertical bar
instrumentation, all the current fancy EICAS systems in airplanes like
Airbus 340, B747-400, and similar "Atari Ferrari" types all use the fancy
CRTs and fast graphics processors...to draw pictures of old-fashioned
round "steam gauges" for the pilots' delectation! I'd assume a lot of
expensive human factors research went into that, too. A further point
against numerical displays is that the typical pilot can't visualize
numbers greater than ten unless he takes off his shoes...
Finally, I happen to like flying with polarized sunglasses, which
made the Powerbook hard to see in any case...and in the front two seats
of Boomerang, which is a fair bit roomier than Europa, the Powerbook took
up a significant bit of space.
I still think glass panels show a lot of promise--but I think
they'll work best with purpose-built displays (not all the cheap even
when adapted from generic hardware) and very carefully written software.
Moreover, if they're going to be used as primary instrumentation for IFR,
they'll probably require mechanical instruments as backup---so I'll just
stick with round dials for Europa A37.
regards, Peter Lert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CEllison06(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New listener |
Hi everyone,
I have been following very closely what has been posted on Europa_Mail.
Enjoy it very much. I would like to order and start building a Europa
straight away but time constraints won't allow.
I would like to know if there is builder close by that I could talk to about
the prospect of building or could see first hand what its like. (have never
built or worked with composites before)
If anyone knows of a Europa being built in the Pacific Northwest USA I would
appreciate it very much!
I'll keep reading the Mail.
Thanks much
Craig Ellison
Hope to be builder
Silverton, OR USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>>I've had the chance to fly about six hours in Boomerang, <<
Wish I had. Congratulations on being in the right place at the right time with
the right street cred :-) I hope you'll tell us more about Boomerang.
I would value your opinion, which I know is based on considerable experience, on
the following:
I find it adds considerably to my workload to have to continuously monitor the
engine parameters, particularly when I'm busy trying to think what to say (and
what not to say) to ATC, fly the airplane and navigate. I find it very helpful
to let the digital engine monitor call my attention when required and monitor it
at leasure, if you will, when I'm less busy. (My mental gyros are fairly easily
toppled.) I have the feeling that it is more reliable than the Westach
instruments it replaces. No moving parts. ( I also know and respect the guy who
makes it)
In similar vein, do you know of a reliable stall warner to replace the stall
strips which have a performance penalty at low speeds. Better still an angle of
attack sensor so that we could ignore the ASI, which only tells us we are too
slow when it's happened instead of when it's about to happen.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | pa mail: Anodising Chromic Method L B Parkes the best source |
>> Does anyone have the name and number of a company which does chromic
anodising in the UK ?<<
Try Acorn Hardas, near Mansfield, 01623 753107
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: New listener |
CEllison06(at)aol.com wrote
>If anyone knows of a Europa being built in the Pacific Northwest USA I would
>appreciate it very much!
Craig - the nearest one I know of is John Kilian in Sultan, Washington.
He's on-line so probably reads this list. You could ask the Florida office
of Europa Aviation if they have any other builders listed.
Ask me about joining the Europa Club and getting newsletter back numbers.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: New listener |
Derek White wrote
>I am thinking of building a kit-plane and am very interested in the Europa
Derek - the nearest Europa to you is probably that of Richard Lamprey in
Nairobi, if you want to see one at first-hand. Let me know if you want to
make contact with him.
>especially if a four seater is/becomes available or a two
>seater with a little more carrying capacity. Has anyone put a little more
>power into a europa
A number of folk have installed the Subaru 100hp (or 118hp?) engine, but as
it's heavier than the Rotax, there is a payload penalty. (Otherwise known
as the "no free lunch" syndrome.) I believe discussion are ongoing between
owners, PFA, & factory about an increase in gross weight to compensate.
Any four-seat development is somewhere over the horizon, beyond the
motor-glider wings and the BMW engine package, I'd guess.
E-mail me direct if you want to join the Europa Club & get club newsletter
back issues.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ians(at)avnet.co.uk (Ian Seager) |
| Subject: | Re: D-EPWR or D-EPWB? |
(As pure speculation, based on his
>address, did Schleichers have a hand in it - for instance, is it covered in
>Gel-Coat ?).
>
Quite possibly not the same person, but I am told that an ex works manager
(Or something similar) from Diamond (The makers of the Katan and Dimona)
has now set up in Germany and is building, or has built a Europa...
Just a thought
Ian
Ian Seager FLYER Magazine, 3 Kingsmead Square, Bath, BA1 2AB
Tel: 01225 481440 Fax: 01225 481262
http://www.avnet.co.uk/flyer/flyhome.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
Hello all--
In terms of engine instrument monitoring and reliability, I've
had less than sterling experiences myself with the Westach stuff; my
impression is that the VDO gauges that come with the Rotax packages are
probably higher quality.
Among the various engine indicating and monitoring gadgets with
which I've had experience, the best and most sophisticated installation
is doubtless the stuff from Vision MicroSystems, which uses various
senders, a central processing module, and either a very well-executed
single large-screen display (VMS-1000) or a series of 2.25" round dials,
each of which is only about half an inch deep behind the panel and all of
which are linked by a single ribbon cable "bus." An option is an
alphanumeric warning and advisory system which also does checklists.
Alas, while you certainly get what you pay for, you also pay for what
you get--somewhere on the wrong side of $2000!
A very viable alternative, at less than half the price, is the
excellent little engine monitoring and indicating system (all digital)
from Rocky Mountain Instruments, who also make the fabulous
"microEncoder" air data instrument. Both of these gizmos are available
as kits, and the quality of both the components and the instruction and
assembly manuals are extremely high. "Factory" support is also
excellent, with a high level of builder handholding if necessary.
All this having been said, and while I still don't know what kind
of clockwork will go into A37, I'm pretty sure that I'll go with
traditional analog engine instruments: light, cheap, easy to scan and
interpret at a glance, cheap, reliable, and cheap.
As far as stall warning is concerned: the best, lightest,
cheapest, and most reliable system is an appropriate level of pilot
training and experience. After all, aircraft like the Spitfire, which
has a much less docile stall than Europa, never had stall warning
systems. When I flew ELSA, Pete Clark--sorely missed!--had removed the
stall strips for cleaner snap rolls (flicks, for you Limes) in his
airshow routine, and the
stall was still not only quite docile but preceded by quite a perceptible
buffet.
A few years ago, a gentleman called Morgan Huntingdon was selling
what he called the "Lift Reserve Indicator," effectively a pneumatic
angle of attack indicator based on a probe with holes above and below the
stagnation point and a sensitive differential manometer (available over
the counter from air conditioning engineering suppliers). A past issue
of Sport Aviation detailed a similar system based on tiny holes in the
upper and lower surface of the wing leading edge.
All very nice, and the thing indeed worked just as advertised.
Whether it's really necessary in an aircraft as honest as Europa remains
to be seen. If one comes to depend on an angle of attack indicator, one
may be at a disadvantage if it goes U/S at the wrong time. I think that
in Europa a certain minimum level of awareness, good hands, and an
educated bum should be more than adequate!
PSL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com |
Craig Ellison wrote
I am builder A46 located in Sultan, Wash. having just signed up but have yet
to start. I would be happy to discuss with you what I have seen and done to
date. If this would be of help to you contact me at LYNJOHN22(at)aol.com or by
phone at 360 793-2126. The closest NW builders besides myself are in B.C.,
Alberta, Calif., Utah, &Nev. The office in Lakeland Fla. can probably send
you a current builders list or I can steer you to the nearest ones.
Regards John Kilian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CEllison06(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New listener |
Rowland,
Thanks for the info, I'am not sure where Sultan is but I'll sure find out.
Hope John is listening in on this. Sure would like to visit with someone
first hand who is putting a Europa together.
Good idea on contacting Europa direct in Fl. I thought they might not give
out the names of their builders? Not sure what policy was. I'll sure try
though.
I'am also interested in back issues of their newletter. Fl might be able to
help there also.
Craig email CEllison(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>In similar vein, do you know of a reliable stall warner to replace the stall
>strips which have a performance penalty at low speeds. Better still an angle of
>attack sensor so that we could ignore the ASI, which only tells us we are too
>slow when it's happened instead of when it's about to happen.
>
>Graham
Russ Light (Sherwood Ranger) had a very nice solid state stall warner fitted
to the Ranger prototype: 10mmX10mmX1mm pressure sensor/switch, taped to the
LE: move it up or down (presumably around the stagnation point) to control
how much warning ahead of the stall you get. His was hooked up to a horn,
but no probs to feed it into the intercom, a light, stick shaker, or whatever.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>> If one comes to depend on an angle of attack indicator, one
may be at a disadvantage if it goes U/S at the wrong time.<<
My desire for an AOA meter is that I find it hard to judge attitude and height
close to the ground, especially through my bi focals, and consequently I
occasionally get Bounced, usually when I thought I'd got it hacked, through
either rounding out too high, rounding out too low or an unseen hump on the
ground. The result of being Bounced is a very high AOA, nothing visible in front
and a sinking feeling closely followed by the next bounce and subsequent
embarassment. The correct response to the first Bounce is full throttle and go
round, regularly demonstrated in the past by our Leader. He knew something I'm
only just learning. The result of that strategy is that the second bounce has a
small b. If runway (and spare brain capacity) permits you can then back off the
power and try again.
Europa is certainly an honest airplane.
The dampers help a lot in reducing the pitch up after a bounce and this gives
the inexperienced taildragger pilot a bit more latitude and less steep learning
curve. I wonder if an AOA meter might help too in easing the bumps of the
learning curve. In mitigation may I add that I learnt on taildraggers but 10
years of flying nothing but EZs diluted my previous experience. EZs make old men
feel young again :-)
Final thought, the stall strips are there for two reasons, primarily to give 5
knots before the stall of warning and secondarily to allow the actual stall
itself to be "trimmed" level should the airplane not be quite straight.
More of your valued thoughts, please Peter?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
(from europa(at)avnet.co.uk)
(on Sat, 07 Sep 96 08:09:14)
| From: | Richard Thomas <richard(at)olympics.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
Greetings everyone , can't resist this reply to the hi-tech instrument
panel debate, although I don't want to uprise a debate over which OS:
> > Who do you know still using a 486 box,
>
> Well, actually, this is being written on a 386DX 40MHZ box, using W95 !
I'm using an Amiga with a Motorola 68060 CPU, 18Mb Ram, 1.2Gb HD and the
absolutely brilliant AmigaOS 3. Well I think you all know by now that I'm
a flying Amiga fanatic now...
> do they think it is fast?
>
> I think it is 40MHZ fast !!!
Nah my 50Mhz 060 aout performs a Pentium 133 anyday, and that isn't even
counting the brilliant OS I'm running (fully pre-emptive multitasking OS
unlike any other (it was based on Unix with a GUI, not unlike X Windows I
suppose, originally)).
Well I know people here might not like this message, but I really dislike
Windows 95, Mac System 7, etc, only AmigaOS for me, although I am buying
a PC for Microsoft Flight Sim 5 ;)
I'm trying to decide what I should do for my last year University project.
If anyone has any ideas, please contact me (the project will have computer
hardware equipment, such as an PCI board (well Zorro board in my case and
custom software written for the board). I'm thinking about something that
would be very useful on the flightdeck of a light aircraft, any ideas (I've
got a few of my own, but would like some suggestions) would be appreciated.
Btw I'm a C/C++, Assembler programmer for both the Amiga and PC computers, so
if anyone needs some help (I'm better with C/C++ though), then you know who
to ask... :)
> hope our hard drives don't crash.
Well mine did 3 months ago, and it was a nightmare, lost everything (I'm
backing everything up now every month). I'm glad my flying hasn't proved such
as a disaster as my Hard Drive! ;)
I'm sorry about this mail if anyone thinks its silly, but I thought I'd post
this anyway.
Also thanks to the two people who offered to show me their Europa project,
I'll probably take you up on the offer, as I haven't found anyone in Cardiff,
what a suprise! ;)
Best Wishes everyone, and this is the last posting I'm sending here about the
Amiga vs PC vs Mac (I quite like Macs though) debate(!)...
EMail from Richard Thomas in Cardiff, United Kingdom
------------------------------+----------------------------------
richard@olympics.demon.co.uk | http://www.olympics.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------+----------------------------------
Compulsive, Paranoid and Anti-Social, but basically Happy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
I can't help but to respond to this Amiga msg. From a Technology point of
view I feel the commador Amiga is the most advance pc available. But for the
common user what is the purpose of a computer and os? In one sentence, "to
run application software".
This is where Commador has also fallen flat on their face. There is very
little software for this os out there. And it's software that sells systems.
Ask apple. If it wasn't for desktop publishing (pagemaker) the mac would
have never gotten to first base.
Good application software sell the hardware/os.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | pa Aviation newsletter back issues |
CEllison06(at)aol.com wrote
>I'am also interested in back issues of their newletter. Fl might be able to
Some of them are online. Start looking at the Europa Club WWW page.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
>>I'm using an Amiga with a Motorola 68060 CPU, 18Mb Ram, 1.2Gb HD and the
absolutely brilliant AmigaOS 3. Well I think you all know by now that I'm
a flying Amiga fanatic now...<<
I didn't know they existed, so your posting was not wasted.
I don't think any kind of personal computer is required or desireable. What's
needed is a few simple dedicated units like engine monitor, flight information
monitor (such as the excellent Grand Rapids and Rocky Mountain products) each
with solid state memory and it's own CPU and software. No hard discs or floppies
to fail.
I would love a HUD as well, anyone know how they work?
BTW you should join the Europa club then come and meet the gang and see the odd
Europa, weather permitting at Chavanage near Stroud in early October.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dino Baker" <DBA(at)biomed.fmc.flinders.edu.au> |
| Subject: | rcarriage Damper |
Hello All,
Has anybody fitted the Damper? If so, what are the results compared
to the standard arrangement? Is the extra cost worthwhile?
John Baker, #181
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Damper |
>Hello All,
>
>Has anybody fitted the Damper? If so, what are the results compared
>to the standard arrangement? Is the extra cost worthwhile?
>
>John Baker, #181
>
Good question. It seems to me that Europa does not feel the need to
advertise new products to all us builders- a brief mention in a factory
letter will do. Some of us might like to know the benefits of the product,
and what we get for our money. How about posting out a fly sheet with the
"option extras" available from the factory? How about sending out a fly
sheet WHEN they become available?
John Bampfylde, #130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
<<< I can't help but to respond to this Amiga msg. From a Technology point of
view I feel the commador Amiga is the most advance pc available. But for the
common user what is the purpose of a computer and os? In one sentence, "to
run application software".>>
Hello, hello, is this still the Europa Forum?
How are everyone's Europa's coming along? Mine's doing just great.
I got to bond the upper and lower halves of the fuselage a couple of weekends
ago. Boy, sure is difficult squeezing inside there to fix the bulkhead tapes.
Anyone had to swap out the electric trim servo yet? I decided against cutting a
rear access hole in at what must be a stress area - but I wonder how on earth I
am going to get myself right back there to do any work if I need to. Any ideas?
FTP.AVNET.CO.UK seems to be void of any Europa files at present. Any ideas
what's happened?
Looking forward to hearing more about other Europa's in the Europa Forum.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Computer Jargonese |
>
> I got to bond the upper and lower halves of the fuselage a couple of weekends
> ago. Boy, sure is difficult squeezing inside there to fix the bulkhead tapes.
> Anyone had to swap out the electric trim servo yet? I decided against cutting
a
> rear access hole in at what must be a stress area - but I wonder how on earth
I
> am going to get myself right back there to do any work if I need to. Any ideas?
Martin,
The new builders manual has details of how to make a reinforced access hole at
the correct place in the rear fuselage.
I can't see any other way of getting back there unless you have very looooooooong
arms. (Or borrow Graham 2's trained
aircraft mechanic cat).
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09/11/96
Time: 15:31:22
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Computer Jargonese |
wrote:
> <<< I can't help but to respond to this Amiga msg. From a Technology point of
> view I feel the commador Amiga is the most advance pc available. But for the
> common user what is the purpose of a computer and os? In one sentence, "to
> run application software".>>
>
> Hello, hello, is this still the Europa Forum?
>
Hmmmm, Europa? Haven't heard of that computer before. Must be on the wrong group
:-)
#272. Yes, I will update my www log soon.
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09/11/96
Time: 15:37:37
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: hi-tech panels |
<> (Graham 1)
Well yes, but not with dedicated displays- that loses all the flexibility
software can provide. Ok, you need the basic alt/airspeed/compass/comms
in traditional form , but after that you indulge in all the fancy display
stuff your computer can provide, via yes, the Rocky mtn. digital inputs
and gps, but outputting to the pc. If it all fails then you fall back on
the basics, (and a handheld with vor so the gps can fail too). What fun
you can have configuring the display ergonomics. Beats immersion in epoxy
and paint.
<>
Yes, worked on them. First you need a Very bright display - tft's no use
yet. Come to think of it the Europa instrument module might just let me
turn my 9" crt round through 90 deg. as required, and the tinted screen
would help, but you need a flat reflector- there's a thought- how about
distorting the raster to compensate for the curvatures ! Will let you
know.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Further thoughts on fuel venting |
Roger wrote: <>.
Well, the current system is most certainly dangerous and could have lost
me my aeroplane. (I hope the Al. tube mod. will be suppolied free)
The problem clearly originates in that wedge of air - so the tank shape
is wrong; the top should be horizontal when on the ground (thinks... turn
the tank (aeroplane ?) upside down and then a further 10 deg. and pour
setting plastic into the wedge ?
Here are more serious suggestions.
1) Drill a hole down into the tank outside the headrests and seal a
vent pipe directly where it is needed in the highest point of the wedge,
coupled to the existing dorsal outlet.
) Drill a bigger hole between the headrests and seal in a clear plastic
pipe carrying a float in the tank and a marker in the visible bit above
the seatbacks. Vent the top straight up, or to the existing outlet
further back. You then have a vented wedge AND a "Tiger Moth" (but
calibrateable ) sight gauge in full view, and independent of attitude.
Gets rid of that awful pipe of fuel looped round the pilot. Restricts
baggage access, but it could be offest quite a bit to one side while
there is sufficient travel for the float. Might even be made retractable
through an O-ring, but maybe that's a bit fanciful.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Computer Jargonese |
<>
Make a platform 7" high and 18" wide in the form of an invertd U. This
can be threaded through baggage D and will let you lie above the push rod
and get pretty far back. (It needs 2" detachable side extensions as the
full height needed won't go through the D). Won't get you much further
than the balance weights though, especially if the cat follows you in ( I
think he's unionised Tony, inspects, but won't dirty his paws)! A trim
motor hatch seems essential - hope you made the nuts captive behind the
bulkhead !
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
I am wandering through England the week after next on a 'business' trip. Where
can I source one of those rather nice roof
mounted compasses that I keep seeing in peoples Europas? The roof mounted one I
got from Aircraft Spruce is going back as
it is as ugly as hell. I will need to give the outlet a bit of notice I suspect
as we have to mount our compasses upside
down here so need a Southern Hemisphere one.
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09/11/96
Time: 17:16:11
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Reynaud" <Carl_Reynaud(at)ccmail.eo.ray.com> |
| Subject: | Tank Inspections |
I recently showed my Europa Kit to an interested party who currently
operates a motorglider. He expressed an opinion regarding the lack of
access to the fuel tank. Part of the MG annual is to remove the
access hatch and remove the year's accumulated "gunge" which he
assured me was always a suprising amount. Despite Ivan's
protestations regarding the quality of modern fuel, lack of water,
changeable filter etc, it would seem to be another area where access
would seem to be sensible.
Can anyone with actual aircraft operating experience comment on this
either way please? Actually cutting a hole in the tank to fit a
sealed access hatch is a bridge I'll cross when I've made a decision.
At this stage I'd just like some accumulated experience to help make
the decision either way.
Cheers
Carl #159
Always available to anyone passing Portsmouth who wants to drop in for
beer and talk aeroplanes!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RHS Linux User <dthomas(at)booker.demon.co.uk> |
Dear europa avnet
How I got to be on your mailing list is a mystery to me as I never put
my name down, I therfeofre resceptfully ask that my name be taken off the
list
Thank You in advance
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | pa Club WWW pages URL |
Seems that not everyone knows about the Europa Club WWW pages. Point your
browser at:
http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa/index.html
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Inspections |
| From: | Richard Meredith-Hardy <rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net> |
> I recently showed my Europa Kit to an interested party who currently
> operates a motorglider. He expressed an opinion regarding the lack of
> access to the fuel tank. Part of the MG annual is to remove the
> access hatch and remove the year's accumulated "gunge" which he
> assured me was always a suprising amount. Despite Ivan's
> protestations regarding the quality of modern fuel, lack of water,
> changeable filter etc, it would seem to be another area where access
> would seem to be sensible.
>
> Can anyone with actual aircraft operating experience comment on this
> either way please? Actually cutting a hole in the tank to fit a
> sealed access hatch is a bridge I'll cross when I've made a decision.
> At this stage I'd just like some accumulated experience to help make
> the decision either way.
>
> Cheers
>
> Carl #159
>
Ho Ho! remember my postings DANGER CR** fuel system?
As microlighters we KNOW you get stuff in fuel tanks, and its not
because of the driver. We have a tank inspection hole mod which
(I think - my partner is handling it) is now PFA approved, we've
certainly done all the pressure tests Etc. It involves an
inspection hatch between the headrests and an aluminium plate as
inspection cover in the tank itself. We have used a sort of slightly
foamy PTFE tape as the seal which seems to stay sealed while immersed
in different types of petrol indefinitely.
The cover has also served as a decent site to fit a capacitance
gauge and a (modified) aircraft spruce mechanical one so we have
done away with the sight gauge altogether.
I will post the mod to the FTP eventually - I haven't got the
drgs & Dave is a heathen luddite when it comes to computer comms.
Regards
-------------------------------------------------------
Richard Meredith-Hardy TEL + 44 (0)1462 834776
rmh(at)flymicro.win-uk.net FAX + 44 (0)1462 732668
CIS: 100071,2422
BMAA Foot Launched Microlight (FLM) office.
Check out the British Microlight Aircraft Association at
http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/bmaa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Inspections |
> is now PFA approved
Somewhere we should establish a list of PFA approved modifications, complete with
drawing and assembly details. Approved PFA
mods are frequently mentioned but it always seem difficult to obtain further information.
Does a definitive list exist anywhere?
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09/12/96
Time: 12:54:04
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Inspections |
<>
Don't have any operating experience but you will have read about my fuel
venting experience. With only a gallon or two of fuel flowing over the
fuselage, there was so much brown gunge deposited that it took two hours
to clean off. Of course what's left after evaporation is not necesarily
going to get left in the tank, it might just get burnt, but there is
certainly plenty of solid in fourstar waiting around to accumulate on a
yearlong timescale.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Davis <101621.3070(at)compuserve.com> |
Presumably PFA Engineering will have a list of approved mods (I hope!) and so
all one has to do is contact Francis Donaldson. He has always proved very
helpful and accommodating.
Regards,
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
Earliest possible notice that we intend to run another Europa Semminar this
year. To celebrate the PFA's 50th anniversery, and take advantage
of some very impressive facilities, it will be held at the Northbrook
College on Shoreham airport. As one of the facilities is a nice big runway
without, on this occasion a landing fee, we hope, despite the weather to see
some Europas. Provisional date 7/8th December. Please do
not bother anyone about booking until you recieve your Europa Flyer mag
it will contain a booking form but when you recieve that PLEASE GET A MOVE ON
and book your places.If you do not book early your chances of getting in
will be very slim indeed we have always booked up for these events.
Top class lectures on building maintaining and flying and an early Christmas
dinner in good company' see you there.
Ron S No 33 Chairman Europa Club.
PS if you have builder friends who are not net men please tell them the
news.
PPS I've had a look at the Video's that were done at Staverton and, given
that we made almost no concessions to the poor cameraman, the results are
pretty darn good. I don't have the ordering details to hand will some one on
the net who still has them please put them on again for anyone who wants
them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Inspections |
In a message dated 12/09/96 01:13:09, tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz writes:
>Somewhere we should establish a list of PFA approved modifications, complete
>with drawing and assembly details. Approved PFA
>mods are frequently mentioned but it always seem difficult to obtain further
>information.
>
>Does a definitive list exist anywhere?
Pete Davis points out that Francis Donaldson has (by definition) all the
approved mods
and he is indeed the most helpfull of people but if we all charge in
indivdually badgering him about lists he could get a bit swamped. I phoned
him today to try and sort something out that would benefit us all but he is
not around till Monday. I will see him in just over a week and I will try and
sort out how we could best proceed. If , in the meantime any kind person
would like to volanteer to maintain such a record and in effect, act as
contact man for mods would he please send let me know by E Snail or phone.
Ron S 33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ar or unleaded?? |
4-star or unleaded??
Something I've been meaning to ask ... the Europa Owners Manual came with some
very useful CAA published leaflets in the back - one concerning the Use of
Mogas.
I noted that on the Europa video we see the aircraft being filled with unleaded
and the commentary says 'leaded or unleaded ... it doesn't matter', yet the
leaflet says that Mogas should be 4-star and that unleaded and super unleaded
are not permitted. 'Always use BS4040 leaded from a major supplier with a high
turnover'.
It also says that if you do use mogas, the temperature of the fuel in the tank
must be less than 20 deg C and the aircraft not flown above 6000 ft.
Has the Europa got some sort of dispensation from the CAA? What does the Rotax
manual say on the matter? Can you still get 4-star? My local gas station only
sells unleaded.
Some comments would be appreciated.
P.S. With ref to my postings on rear bulkhead accessibility I thank you for your
comments. Yes, I was aware of the 'approved' rear fuselage access panel but I
wonder how often you are going to have to change the electric trim motor. Any
MTBFstats anyone? Think I'll only cut the access panel when I really need to -
even then it probably only needs a 2 inch hole - possibly less, at the top of
the fuselage fin stub leading edge in line with ... and to get at ... the servo
trim nuts (I did bond in the bolts holding the servo motor and they are turned
'in backwards' so the nuts face forward ala one of the first Europa Flyer
mags).Yes, OK, the servo motor would still have to come out through the inside
of the fuselage but I figure you probably could do that bit from inside - I see
the nuts as being the most awkward.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: 4-star or unleaded?? |
> Has the Europa got some sort of dispensation from the CAA? What does the Rotax
> manual say on the matter? Can you still get 4-star? My local gas station only
> sells unleaded.
Martin,
I puzzled about this too. It appears that the CAA in the UK has a
dislike of unleaded fuel. In New Zealand we only have unleaded
and there are a large number of homebuilts (many with 912's) running
quite nicely on unleaded 91 with full authority from our CAA.
We recently had a fuel specialist speak at out local EAA branch and
he said that the most important thing was to watch fuel ageing. Fuel
left in a tank, metal of plastic, loses its volatility (goes stale)
over a while.
I suppose you should check with your
local EAA to see what the regulations are in the USA but I suspect
unleaded will get the go ahead.
Tony Krzyzewski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | osed Mods: Pitot static mast/ BRS |
An approved mods listing would be most useful: I propose that builders
should also post messages on proposed mods too: hopefully, this will
generate some interesting emails, and prevent people from working on similar
projects in isolated parallel.
To kick off the thread, I suggest that the subject header be started with
"Proposed mods" followed by subject(s), as above. Makes it easier to find in
the Database...
So far, the FLYER Europa (#251) is pretty much standard except for minor
mods to wing/stab tip shapes. However, we are planning to deviate (so far)
in 3 areas:
(1) We will be fitting a Pitts type Pitot/Static mast to the port wing near
the tip, projecting from the LE. This is because we wish to do some serious
testing using a +1 chord long pitot (outside the influences of the wing) and
it will provide a second static source: besides, I like the Pitts type
static source: it seems to be very good when it comes to static errors. It
will be removable to prevent damage on the ground (berks walking into it)
and so that we can experiment with reduced length ones (probably around
12-14") for normal use. Soon as I finish the drawings, it'll go to Francis
for approval, and copies will then be available. It will probably be
possible to fit it to built wings before the tip is fitted (or by cutting
off some of the tip) but it'll be much easier to build in place before
bonding the LE cores to the spar.
(2) Flyer, in conjunction with Europa, are examining the feasibility of
fitting a BRS (Ballistic parachute recovery system) to the airframe; DO NOT
HOLD YOUR BREATH.... 9 years of trying to get BRS approved by the CAA have
proved fruitless so far, although there might be light on the horizon. The
UK is the sole country in the world where it's illegal (!) despite something
like 10,000 units out there, no reported malfunctions and approaching 100
lives saved. We intend to push the issue publically.
We will be reporting on the application in FLYER in due course, and
expect that it will involve various major airframe mods -possibly not
retrofittable to existing aircraft.
(3) With the possibility of the occasional outrigger collapse (ahem, not
unheard of, I believe) we plan to fit wingtip skids to prevent needing to
get out the ampreg, bid, and paint; can anyone out there tell us the ideal
location is, preferably both mains up and down?
Cheers,
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Davis <harry(at)eng.hlp.com> |
I am currently working on the tail kit of my Europa. It has been a
success so far. I have been using micro to fill any dents and to prepare
for skin layups. Recently, I tried superlite filler to prepare for layup.
However, it was very much like trying to spread chewing gum, a slow
process.
Does anyone know of a light weight filler that is easy to spread?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | pa mods (was: Fuel Tank Inspections) |
RonSwinden(at)aol.com wrote
>Pete Davis points out that Francis Donaldson has (by definition) all the
>approved mods
> If , in the meantime any kind person
>would like to volanteer to maintain such a record
I'm already maintaining, as part of the membership database, a list of mods
for those builders who've given me details. I'm happy to liaise with
Francis (or anyone else at the PFA) to keep an up-to-date and more official
list. I'm also happy to reduce the communication load on Francis and act as
a buffer for all Europa Club enquiries.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> I am currently working on the tail kit of my Europa. It has been a
> success so far. I have been using micro to fill any dents and to prepare
> for skin layups. Recently, I tried superlite filler to prepare for layup.
> However, it was very much like trying to spread chewing gum, a slow
> process.
>
If you get the micro supplied with the Europa kit to the right
consistency then it spreads really easily. If you get it to the point
where soft peaks form (just like making meringues) then it is very
workable but will hold its shape. I needed to use quite a bit when I
had a problem with my rudder
(see http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html)
and as the right consistency it is very workable.
I can't see why you need to go and find any other filler when the
Europa kit specifically includes everything you need.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ar or unleaded?? |
>>I wonder how often you are going to have to change the electric trim motor.<<
Not the point. IMHO a decent sized access hole at the back is vital. Without it
you cannot see if anything is wearing, needs greasing, has come loose or
whatever. I know of no one who can say truthfully that something they have built
will need no maintenance evr again. It's not just the trim motor, there's the
tailwheel, pitch system balance weights, rudder cables and push rod.
I feel much happier when I can see that everything is OK. As an inspector I am
not prepared to crawl down the back of a new (or old) Europa to sign it off for
permit to fly because even then I can't see properly anyway.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Barraclough <106313.2726(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Builers,
I have just taken steps to add my name to the Europa Mailing List thanks to
the help from Pete Thomas. Not only am I new to the list, I am new to the
Internet and have not got to terms with the protocol/lingo yet! It has been
suggested I drop you a note to say who I am etc. so here goes.....
As far as Europa building goes, I am well on the way to completion. All the
major construction is complete, the engine (Rotax 912 - how boring but
proven!) has been in ond out again and the panel is coming along. I decided
to leave all the finishing process to the end so all the messy bit is still
to do. I will be very dissapointed not to fly to Cranfield in it next year.
I have friends up the road who have just completed and flown their Europa
(Tony Graham & Gordon Beal) so hope to get a trip with them in the very
near future.
My main use for the Europa when completed will be for touring and giving my
son, Simon, some flying continuity as a recently qualified PPL holder. As
an airline pilot on B757 & B767, I can't wait to get some REAL flying
again! Having been checked out on a PA28 recently this has whetted my
appetite for the freedom of light aeroplane flying. The only problem now is
to keep away from this damn computer when I should be filling and rubbing
down!
Regards to all readers and happy building / flying.
David Barraclough
Builder No. 13
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hunter <krhunter(at)pcug.org.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 4-star or unleaded?? |
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
Without it
> you cannot see if anything is wearing, needs greasing, has come loose or
> whatever.
> I feel much happier when I can see that everything is OK. As an inspector I am
> not prepared to crawl down the back of a new (or old) Europa to sign it off for
> permit to fly because even then I can't see properly anyway.
>
> Graham
>
Could not agree more.
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to have a close look at the Katana.
Nice trainer, but the interesting thing that I noticed was that the
aircraft has several small perspect (about 100mm dia) removable access
panels in the wings to view linkages. This allows an inspection on
preflights as well as easy access.
Anybody see any reason why the Europa could not get that see-through
lokk as well?
Ken Hunter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
Mine has just been fitted in a day by Matthew Leach - and a superb job it is.
Matthew used to be employed at Europa and still works for them through another
company. Mine is, I think, the 9th he has done and he is also very realistically
priced unlike one or two others I could mention.
He does the upholstery in his own time and his home phone number is 01751 474623
- if you call during the day you could get an answer machine.
Suppose I am close to being finished - now there is a thought! What will I do
with my time - well younger son has sorted that one out - he has just bought two
Triumph Herald convertibles in bits for the princely sum of GBP300. Oops sorry
-
must go and join another mail group.
Regards,
G-RATZ #37
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | oured Rudder Tip |
Gidday all,
In the June issue of Flyer is a picture on page 36 of Peter Kembers G-OPJK.
It also displays what looks like a stepped forward tip to the leading edge
of the rudder, as if to alleviate any future fouling problems when mating
the rudder to the fin. Is this a correct assumption, can anyone highlight
the correct amount to remove to replicate it, on the assumption that it is
perceived as being a sensible mod. I'm not sure if Peter is out there
listening,but if you are I'd appreciate your input, as no doubt others might
as well, or anyone else who can help????
Thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
P.S. I wish the paintwork on my car shone like this aircraft!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D.Howard(at)kid0110.wins.icl.co.uk |
| Subject: | Member Introduction |
Hi, I'm Dave Howard, thanks to a slightly more expensive trip than
I hoped up to Kirkbymoorside I've become builder number #309 -
well there's a bedroom full of foam and resin.
Firstly, thanks to those who have contributed to this discussion
group since it was started. It was good to hear from real builders
Construction wont start for a month or so whilst the workshop gets
sorted, so some advice and guidance on a couple of matters would
be a help.
Resin Pumps - I think I'll 'invest' though I'm a little concerned
about the accuracy of them. I accept there is a risk with them
delivering duff mixes, but is this actually a problem in reality
and is it any worse than using a couple of cups and scales? Also
on the same topic, my kit came with two types of hardner, how does
the pump cope with this ?
Safety Equipment - I'll give SP Systems a call, but suggestions as
to the most effective mask and gloves are most welcome - I think
I'll come down on the side of safety rather than comfort.
I've sat neatly on the fence and ordered neither a tri-cycle gear
or a mono. Other than the obvious slowness of the tri-cycle and
it's inability to drag itself out of rough fields are there any
other pros/cons ? Is the tri-cycle any worse than a PA38 or C150
in this respect ? I'd heard a rumour that there had been some
cooling problems on G-KITS. I've done precious little flying since
getting a FAA PPL a few years back so something that isn't tricky
to fly kind of appeals.
I'm sure there are lots of other things I should be asking but
don't want to bog you down at the start.
Finally, if there are any builders between the west of Derby and
Worksop (the two possible locations for the building) expect a
phone call ! If anyone wants to volunteer for a visit first please
step forward....
Cheers,
Dave Howard
(dh(at)iclnet.co.uk)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Eck <billeck(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Followed Europa until Lakeland '95 when I was able to sit in the
airplane. All was well until I closed the windows. My left arm/shoulder
was not comfortable. Couldn't picture 3 hours like that and stopped
dreaming. Saw something that said you had a wider seat. Is that
true? Would at help my problem? Thanks, Bill Eck billeck(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: New Member Introduction |
>
> Hi, I'm Dave Howard, thanks to a slightly more expensive trip than
> I hoped up to Kirkbymoorside I've become builder number #309 -
> well there's a bedroom full of foam and resin.
>
Ha! Know the feeling well.
>
> Resin Pumps - I think I'll 'invest' though I'm a little concerned
> about the accuracy of them. I accept there is a risk with them
> delivering duff mixes, but is this actually a problem in reality
> and is it any worse than using a couple of cups and scales? Also
> on the same topic, my kit came with two types of hardner, how does
> the pump cope with this ?
>
Definately worth it. Get a variable ratio pump. Set it to 29:100 and
test pump some resin through. Check to see if you are getting a 1:4
ratio by weight and if not then adjust the pump until you do. You can
mix the hardeners if you wish to get the right setting ratio. I use a
50/50 mix which is right for my winter climate though I will have to
use more slow hardener for large layups as summer arrives.
> Safety Equipment - I'll give SP Systems a call, but suggestions as
> to the most effective mask and gloves are most welcome - I think
> I'll come down on the side of safety rather than comfort.
>
Here is the list...
3M mask with organics filter and dust pre filter.
Rubber gloves, the washing up kind, not surgical.
eye mask with facial seal.
Tyvek coveralls
A good ventilation system for the workroom.
Dispose of all rubbish from the workroom after each layup and if
possible treat mixing cups, stirrers etc as disposible items.
If you want to see what you have let yourself in for visit my
builders log at http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html
regards
Tony
#272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> Mine has just been fitted in a day by Matthew Leach - and a superb job it is.
> Matthew used to be employed at Europa and still works for them through another
> company. Mine is, I think, the 9th he has done and he is also very realistically
> priced unlike one or two others I could mention.
>
> He does the upholstery in his own time and his home phone number is 01751 474623
> - if you call during the day you could get an answer machine.
>
I have seen Matthews work and it looks great. He also offers kits for
those who live a bit further away. All of the pieces are pre cut and
he even supplies the glue!
Tony
#272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | silveira(at)well.com (Dick Silveira) |
UNSCRIBE ERUOPA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Jenkins <tfj(at)apusapus.demon.co.uk> |
Organisation: Don't put it down; put it away!
| Subject: | the video, read the info pack, ... |
I've seen the Europa video and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
I've read the information pack and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
I'm left with a few questions though:
1) How am I going to pay for it? :-)
But seriously my issue of the Sept. Flyer had a blow-in from "Rirst
Aviation Finance" offering non-secured loans for aviation purposes.
Is this a sensible option to pursue? Especially, as during the
building process I'll also need to fund my PPL. Has anyone used this
method of funding their flying? Would you recommend it to others? [If
it is not a sensible route to follow then my consultancy rates will
have to go up. :-) ]
I'm also a little confused by the phrase "non-returnale deposit ...
equivalent to stage-1". Is this simply that I must stump up the dosh
for stage 1 with my order or is it that the total cost will be
stlg16,445 (at July 1 1996 prices)?
2) How much more should I budget on for instrumentation?
And all the other ancillaries not included in the kit.
3) How comfortable is it for someone 6' 2"?
I've been following the recent thread where some of you suggest that
maybe there are some problems in that respect.
4) Can it be rigged solo?
The video calmly says the wings can be rigged in 5 minutes by two
people. Is is feasible to rig it and derig it single handed?
5) Anyone got views on the mono wheel versus tricycle gear options?
I presume that sometime after getting my PPL and before flying a
mono-wheeled Europa I'd need to do a tailwheel conversion course. How
much drag does the tricycle gear introduce?
6) Anyone created a Microsoft FS5.0 aircraft file for thier Europa?
If I decide not to proceed at least I could still play with one. :-)
Regards, Trevor.
--
"Real Men don't Read Instruction Manuals"
Tim Allen, Home Improvement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>> address for Peter Smoothy at Airworld U.K,
regarding the better quality strobes.<<
Airworld UK, 11 Keach Close, Winslow Buckinghamshire, MK18 3PX, fax 01296 713
303
I hesitate to make recommendation, because I don't know their track record. I
was impressed with what the guy had to say though.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
Trevor Jenkins wrote
>2) How much more should I budget on for instrumentation?
How many instruments do you want? You could probably double the kit cost
with the panel if you tried.
>3) How comfortable is it for someone 6' 2"?
You need a trial flight. Your e-mail address suggests UK residence, so get
along to the factory and lash out 20 quid on a demo. You wouldn't buy a
ready-made aeroplane you hadn't flown, would you?
I'll leave the other questions to those better qualified.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Damper |
>to the standard arrangement? Is the extra cost worthwhile?
just gotta remember to keep that stick back on landing - no peeking!!!!
converting to a jet or helicopter. Faint heart never won fair lady.
Bill W-Wynne N52=B036.7' W004=B004.5' (N Wales) 01654 710101/2/3(fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Member Introduction/ resin pumps |
In a message dated 9/16/96 12:32:33PM, Dave Howard writes:
> Resin Pumps - I think I'll 'invest' though I'm a little concerned
> about the accuracy of them. I accept there is a risk with them
> delivering duff mixes, but is this actually a problem in reality
> and is it any worse than using a couple of cups and scales? Also
> on the same topic, my kit came with two types of hardner, how does
> the pump cope with this ?
We have used a resin pump throughout our Europa project ( spanning last 2+
years),and can thoroughly reccommend it. Provided you callibrate the pump at
day one and check it every now and again you should have no problems. We used
the one from Aircraft & Spruce (UK) and they usually have a stock of Europa
compatible pumps. The only thing is that as it is a volumetric delivery
system its best to keep things at a fairly constant temperature (somewhere
near 20 degrees C). Unfortunately you will need to opt for one type of
hardener or the other ( I presume you have normal and slow type) although the
hardeners can be mixed. Perhaps the slow hardener could be jugged into the
hardener dispenser when you are doing the larger layups like the wings but we
got by with standard hardener throughout even in the Summer of 94 when it got
up to 29 degrees and the resin was going off as we were using it.
As to safety equipment 3M make an excellent carbon filter mask as used by
professional spray painters. Available at all good Auto Paint suppliers !
Happy building
Carl Pattinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Member Introduction/ resin pumps |
In a message dated 9/16/96 12:32:33PM, Dave Howard writes:
> Resin Pumps - I think I'll 'invest' though I'm a little concerned
> about the accuracy of them. I accept there is a risk with them
> delivering duff mixes, but is this actually a problem in reality
> and is it any worse than using a couple of cups and scales? Also
> on the same topic, my kit came with two types of hardner, how does
> the pump cope with this ?
We have used a resin pump throughout our Europa project ( spanning last 2+
years),and can thoroughly reccommend it. Provided you callibrate the pump at
day one and check it every now and again you should have no problems. We used
the one from Aircraft & Spruce (UK) and they usually have a stock of Europa
compatible pumps. The only thing is that as it is a volumetric delivery
system its best to keep things at a fairly constant temperature (somewhere
near 20 degrees C). Unfortunately you will need to opt for one type of
hardener or the other ( I presume you have normal and slow type) although the
hardeners can be mixed. Perhaps the slow hardener could be jugged into the
hardener dispenser when you are doing the larger layups like the wings but we
got by with standard hardener throughout even in the Summer of 94 when it got
up to 29 degrees and the resin was going off as we were using it.
As to safety equipment 3M make an excellent carbon filter mask as used by
professional spray painters. Available at all good Auto Paint suppliers !
Happy building
Carl Pattinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | trevor.jackson(at)ndirect.co.uk |
On Saturday 12th October the Europa Club will hold its second fly-in,
this time at Chavenage near Tetbury, Gloucestershire.
The gathering will begin at the airstrip at Chavenage with arrivals
throughout the day, with the possibility of some local flying around
Chavenage on Saturday. The strip's location is 51=B040'N, 002=B012'W.
Elevation 550ft. Runways 08L/26R; circuits to the south. The strip is
600m long, approx 25m wide. Large power cables to the west: caution!
Avoid Gatcombe Park to the north and Highgrove House to the south
unless you have Royal connections. The strip is bounded to the north
and east by steep sided brook valleys and by woods to the north, all
of which can make approaches difficult under certain wind conditions.
Strip operator Martin Stoner recommends you contact him on 01666
504884(home), 0802 630721(mobile) for a briefing on conditions. If
necessary Martin will meet aviators at Kemble to give a more detailed
briefing on flying in to the strip, or fly in with them if things are
really awkward. Kemble's frequency is 118.9 Mhz, tel 01285 770077.
There'll be no catering at the strip but pub food is available a short
walk away. Bring some food if you don't fancy the trek. Hopefully
there will be plenty of Europas and other aircraft to look at, but
should you tire of this, you can try your hand at clay pigeon
shooting, or take a drive to the renowned Westonbirt Arboretum.
In the evening, we gather at Chavenage House for a gourmet dinner, =A322
per person. The meal MUST be booked in advance to give the caterers a
chance to get the numbers right. Please send cheque payable to the
Europa Club to me at 25 Seymore Road, Aston,Sheffield, S31 0DG. If
you're intending to join us please book now; bookings stand at 32
definite, 20 probable. Meet at 7.30, for dinner at 8.00, followed by
a tour and talk on this 15th century haunted house by David
Lowsley-Williams.
On Sunday morning we're invited to visit the premises of Aero
Developments Ltd, at Kemble airfield to see the range of NSI Subaru
engines, and check out their painting and interior trimming services.
Accommodation from B&B to luxury hotels is available in Tetbury, and
camping is available at the strip. Please contact me if you need a
map or accommodation list, or have any other queries.
Trevor Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
welcome to the list Trevor
Here's a few brief answers:
>I'm left with a few questions though:
>1) How am I going to pay for it? :-)
Be creative, sell something else, wait and save up or think about
shares in a plane. Some people are offering them.
Non-returnable deposit: Dont know- ask Europa
>2) How much more should I budget on for instrumentation?
>And all the other ancillaries not included in the kit.
4 to 6 dials in the panel, plus radio, transponder and gps wont
leave you much from around gbp 6,000. Add paint and interior,
gbp1,000 to 2,000, plus several hundred for tools.
>3) How comfortable is it for someone 6' 2"?
Is that height or width ?!!!!!!! The easy answer is sit in one,
visit the factory and have the test flight. If Ivan fits in it,
you should too.
>4) Can it be rigged solo?
yes - you need some rigging aids though. See adverts in last
Europa club mags.
>5) Anyone got views on the mono wheel versus tricycle gear options?
Buy the mono wheel. If you need a trike, then buy a used C152 and save
some money.
>6) Anyone created a Microsoft FS5.0 aircraft file for thier Europa?
Ask Graham at Gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Damper |
converting to a jet or helicopter. Faint heart never won fair lady.<<
I absolutely agree, Bill. In my experience, it's taken me 30 hours to start to
recognise the correct picture on landing. That I suspect is the key. Trouble is
you only get a few seconds of experience each time you land. Adding a little
power on finals gives you more time, as does approach at 65 kts instead of 60,
Martin the Teach tells me. Another thing I have recently discovered is that when
one is wound up/nervous/otherwise overstretched, e.g. new airplane, visual
perception is greatly narrowed. Now I'm beginning to relax a bit on finals the
picture is widening out and I can actually see when I'm too high or too low.
Could be that means you'd learn quicker and easier with the right guy sat beside
you.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Contoured Rudder Tip |
Peter,
Thanks for replying to my mail about the leading edge of the rudder. I am
obviously suffering from not enough information so I am glad for this forum
to be able to air my doubts. As such, thanks for helping out a newcomer, and
I hope in the fullness of time to be able to do the same.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
The Aussie Connection
>
>I think the stepped tip you are refering to is the bit you have to file away to
>get the top leading edge of the rudder to fit within the fin shroud when rudder
>is deflected to port. This isn't a mod, but is necessary and refered to in the
>manual at the fuselage stage.
>
>The reason for this is because the angle of the rudder hinge is not
vertical but
>sloping aft towards the top, the rudder rises when deflected to port and lowers
>to starboard.
>
>How much to take off depends on what you have ended up with and is very much
>'trial & error'. I hope more trial than error.
>
>If you are at the rudder build stage, just make it up as per book and when you
>get to the fuselage stage set it up with clecos and see how much you have to
>take off to achieve the required 30 degrees deflection.
>
>When I was at the rudder stage I thought about not glassing it up until I
had an
>idea about how much of the foam to remove, but in the end I just made the
rudder
>and accepted the filing away and 'repair' as being the only realistic way of
>getting an accurate job.
>
>Don't worry about it at this stage (I have just seen that you're builder
No. 236
>so think about it next week!)
>
>Hope this is some help.
>
>Regards,
>
>Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | ccuracy/Ampreg 20???? |
Gidday,
My electronic scales I purchased in anticipation some time ago, and now that
I am starting to use them I realise they are only accurate to 1 gram. This
is fine for the resin i.e. a 100gram quantity of resin, but how do I
maintain my ideal 1% accuracy with 25 grams of hardener? I know that I could
have made a balance scales which might not display this problem. I heard
Graham Singleton mention, on the very good video of the recent meet, that he
would not like to see an error greater than 1%. My scales will give me a 2%
accuracy. I am in the process of awaiting a reply from SP Systems in UK, but
as yet have not heard. I know of other builders using the same scale set
which is why I bought them.
This highlights a little adage that other builders may choose to adopt as
their building moto, or at least ponder. I use it for my flying, and it
goes like this:
Believe nothing because a wise man said it,
Believe nothing because it is generally held,
Because it is written,
it is said to be devine,
or someone else believes it.
But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.
(And the word of your inspector!)
At least my scales I can tare numerous times in the same operation.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
The Aussie Connectoion
________________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------17440108353387
Please read the attachment. Thanks, Robert
---------------------------------17440108353387
I design and make mini-beams for CB and Ham radios. These
beams are about the size of a TV antenna and can be used
inside and outside. The mini-beams can even be used by
four states and I have been trying to find a way to broaden
my market. These beams are guaranteed to work, and I believe
there is a big market out there for them. They are very
inexpensive at just $30.00 a set. I have talked all over the
world with these beams, and I am convinced that no longer will
consumers have to settle for the huge, unsightly beams in order to
communicate properly. They are perfect for the modern sub-
divisions that will not allow the bigger beams, and since they
look so similar to a TV antenna, others might never know that
you are a radio operator. The booms on the beams are no longer
than five feet, and there is no element on the beams longer
than five feet. The weight of the beams is about five pounds,
and there are several different styles made. The side rejection
and gain are good, and the mini-beams are very durable. The beams
are made to function on 10 and 11 meters. If you can help me
in any way with the marketing of the beams, I would be very
appreciative. I have a patent pending on the mini-beams, and I
really believe that they would sell. Thanks again for any help
or consideration that you may give.
Robert Hudson
209 Tabby Creek Circle
Summerville, S.C.
29483
803-821-1390
---------------------------------17440108353387--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffrey892(at)aol.com |
Can someone give me ideas on how to cut holes in the instrument panel??
What type of hole cutter do I need for the fiberglass/plywood?
Thanks.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <100031.533(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Cutting/Instrument panel |
>>Can someone give me ideas on how to cut holes in the instrument panel??
What type of hole cutter do I need for the fiberglass/plywood?<<
I used Distan hole saws - but any good quality saw will do. There are very cheap
ones available - DO NOT USE. For the instrument holes you will need a pillar
drill. Replace the centre drill of the hole saw with a pin and drill a pilot
hole for the pin using a drill which gives a tightish fit. Aircraft Spruce do a
very neat template for marking out the holes. Because of the shape of the panel,
you will need to start cutting this down as you move over to the left hand of
the panel, so you can't sell it to anyone afterwards! However since it is black
anodised aluminium, you can use it to make a neat choke mounting plate. If
anyone is passing Sherburn in Elmet and wants to borrow mine, they are welcome.
Rolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | switch ergonomics |
There are eight extreme position combinations for the three elements of
trim-tab,indicator and switch, thus four ways of setting up the system.
The Europa manuals show- trim-tab UP, indicator UP, toggle switch UP,
(and the reverse) which at first sight all seems lcgical. Those of us
used to wheel trimming, have for years been pushing the top of the wheel
forward for nose down and the indicator follows in the same direction,
but in the Europa this would be reversed. A trim wheel in effect rotates
as if directly coupled to the pitch motion. This accords with the
direction of movement of the yoke/stick. It would be natural,
particularly if mounted on the tunnel to push the front/top of the switch
for nosedown as if it were a wheel.
It is perhaps less obvious if the switch is on the facia, but wheels are
often in such a position, again requiring the top of the wheel to be
"pushed" for nose down.
I hope Europa/PFA let me reverse the switch action or I shall always be
using the wrong end. I have not had an answer yet.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Approved Mods |
I have been in touch with the PFA on this subject. No detail of already
approved mods was offered, just a suggestion that details be submitted
details for approval.
IMHO that is making more work than necessary for everybody. So yes
please- lets have a datbase, with drawings Ron.
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
<<3) How comfortable is it for someone 6' 2"?>>
Well that's my height - its close, you can't have a thickwodge of seat
foam- I posted my design to the ftp, which uses flexible ply above a gap,
then 2" of foam above. Any more and you need an astrodome, (or lean in
towards your partner ?)
<<4) Can it be rigged solo?>>
Well yes, but you'd better be fit and you need some extras which have
discussed before in the forum, e.g. a wingtip dolly, guides for the spar
ends and roots, and cones on the flap pins at least.
<<6) Anyone created a Microsoft FS5.0 aircraft file for thier Europa?>>
Yes, Ted Gladstone and I posted one in the FTP some time back. Its got my
callsign on it, but as you need Flightshop as well as FS to fly it, you
can change it yourself. I also have scenery for Wombledon, complete with
authentic control tower, hangar, factory, but if you have the Gemini
CD-Rom for the UK scenery, you will have that already.
Graham 2 (gemin)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
<> written by Dave Howard
Well Dave, I am pleased to say mine has at last become "free", well its
available to first caller at half price, even has its original box.
0131 336 1193
Graham 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
Welcome to the Europa forum
In a message dated 9/16/96 7:27:23PM, you write:
>I've seen the Europa video and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
>I've read the information pack and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
Heres the TRUE cost of a Europa !
Airframe Kits #16500
Engine + Installation Kit #11200
Instruments from #3000 - less if second hand.
Paint & Upholstery #1500
Misc Items (tools/ permit/ testing etc) #1000
First Years Insurance #1500
TOTAL COST #34,000
FRIGHTENING, IS'NT IT !
Note, once you purchase the tail kit you are contractually obliged to
purchase the whole fuselage kit (but not the engine kit).
This is a very conservative estimate assuming you don't subcontract the
painting/ upholstery or Instrument Fitting. Our Europa will have cost nearer
the #45,000 mark.
Heightwise im 6' 3" and I seem to fit OK, or should I say I did in the demo
aircraft G-YURO since ours is'nt finished, though we do sit in it every day
and pretend its
finished !
Tri Gear or Taildragger - If you want an easy (though not particularly
exciting ) life then opt for the tri gear. The taildragger Europa is not a
beginners aircraft (whatever anyone says !) though with the right training
you could make it. Paradoxically, you have one advantage over the rest of us
though in that you dont yet have much flying experience. I believe you could
complete your PPL training on a taildragger type such as a Piper Cub and this
would probably stand you in good stead for the (minimum) ten or so hours
Europa conversion you would need to do. There is of course no legal
requirement for you to convert to the Europa but recent experience has shown
that if you dont know how to handle this beast YOU WILL COME TO GRIEF !
Sorry to sound so negative. Regardless though, the Europa is a wonderful
aircraft.
Hopefully I havent put you off and if so, welcome to the fold !
Carl Pattinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Jenkins <tfj(at)apusapus.demon.co.uk> |
Organisation: Don't put it down; put it away!
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
> Welcome to the Europa forum
I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks. The natives seemed
friendly so I decided to show myself and declare what a bozo I am.
:-) Thanks to all those who have brought reality to my thinking,
including Graham Clarke , Dave
and Rowland & Wilma Carson
.
> Heres the TRUE cost of a Europa !
> ...
> TOTAL COST #34,000
> ...Our Europa will have cost nearer the #45,000 mark.
I guessed at twice the cost price. Your completion cost is closer to
three. But then as they say of a Rolls Royce "If you have to ask how
much, you cannot afford it." :-)
> Heightwise im 6' 3" and I seem to fit OK...
That's encouraging.
> though we do sit in it every day and pretend its finished!
:-)
> Tri Gear or Taildragger - If you want an easy (though not
> particularly exciting ) life then opt for the tri gear.
The tri-gear option does not appears to affect performance too much.
Based on my reading of the spec for both options.
> The taildragger Europa is not a beginners aircraft (whatever anyone
> says !) though with the right training you could make it.
When I realised that the prototype had a taildrag I also realised
that I would need to take a conversion course.
> Paradoxically, you have one advantage over the rest of us though in
> that you dont yet have much flying experience.
From asking similar questions elsewhere about costs of flight
training your estimate of #45,000 could rise to at least #51,000 for
the total package. Though my reasons (wishes---pipe dreams?) for
doing all this should mean I qualify for tax-deductions under the
NVQ scheme on the flight training. By the way, if anyone here has
recently completed or is close to completing their PPL then I'd be
interested to hear about your flight school experiences. Whether it
was good or bad.
> I believe you could complete your PPL training on a taildragger
> type such as a Piper Cub and this would probably stand you in good
> stead for the (minimum) ten or so hours Europa conversion you would
> need to do.
Training on a taildragger appears to limit my choices of schools
drastically especially amongst those registered under the NVQ
scheme.
> There is of course no legal requirement for you to convert to the
> Europa but recent experience has shown that if you dont know how to
> handle this beast YOU WILL COME TO GRIEF !
To pinch someone elses slogan "I would not leave the ground without
it!"
> Sorry to sound so negative. ...
It was what I asked for and needed.
> Hopefully I havent put you off and if so, welcome to the fold!
Not yet. Thanks for being so candid. For now, I'll go back to
lurking.
Regards, Trevor.
--
"Real Men don't Read Instruction Manuals"
Tim Allen, Home Improvement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Big G <graeme(at)inect.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Seen the video, read the info pack, ... |
CPattinson(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Welcome to the Europa forum
>
> In a message dated 9/16/96 7:27:23PM, you write:
>
> >I've seen the Europa video and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
> >I've read the information pack and it all looks straight forward. ;-)
>
> Heres the TRUE cost of a Europa !
>
> Airframe Kits #16500
> Engine + Installation Kit #11200
> Instruments from #3000 - less if second hand.
> Paint & Upholstery #1500
> Misc Items (tools/ permit/ testing etc) #1000
> First Years Insurance #1500
>
> TOTAL COST #34,000
>
> FRIGHTENING, IS'NT IT !
>
> Note, once you purchase the tail kit you are contractually obliged to
> purchase the whole fuselage kit (but not the engine kit).
>
> This is a very conservative estimate assuming you don't subcontract the
> painting/ upholstery or Instrument Fitting. Our Europa will have cost nearer
> the #45,000 mark.
>
> Heightwise im 6' 3" and I seem to fit OK, or should I say I did in the demo
> aircraft G-YURO since ours is'nt finished, though we do sit in it every day
> and pretend its
> finished !
>
> Tri Gear or Taildragger - If you want an easy (though not particularly
> exciting ) life then opt for the tri gear. The taildragger Europa is not a
> beginners aircraft (whatever anyone says !) though with the right training
> you could make it. Paradoxically, you have one advantage over the rest of us
> though in that you dont yet have much flying experience. I believe you could
> complete your PPL training on a taildragger type such as a Piper Cub and this
> would probably stand you in good stead for the (minimum) ten or so hours
> Europa conversion you would need to do. There is of course no legal
> requirement for you to convert to the Europa but recent experience has shown
> that if you dont know how to handle this beast YOU WILL COME TO GRIEF !
>
> Sorry to sound so negative. Regardless though, the Europa is a wonderful
> aircraft.
> Hopefully I havent put you off and if so, welcome to the fold !
>
> Carl Pattinson
me now working and earning living in South Africa where the currency has
develuated by 25%. A Pound is now seven Rands and a Doller R4.5. So my
dream is still very much a dream.
Well if my businesses take of perhaps my dream will too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cliff <jfc(at)oasis.icl.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Approved Mods |
Graham Clarke wrote:
>
> I have been in touch with the PFA on this subject. No detail of already
> approved mods was offered, just a suggestion that details be submitted
> details for approval.
Very much the same response I got at the April seminar when I asked
Francis what was intended to be a leading question about making existing
approved mods more public. Do the PFA mind in principle, or just wish to
avoid a workload being the information exchange for many different bulder
groups ? I would have thought they would welcome re-use of approved mods
as being less work than appraisal and debugging of a host of similar but
different mods.
Incidentally, when I registered the project with the PFA I got a report
on the Permit trials of G-YURO. Since then the factory has changed the
kit quite a bit and issued a number of mods. Presumably the target
approved design for which a Permit will be issued automatically moves
every time the factory makes a change or statement, to the whole builder
group or a community, but I don't recollect having read that anywhere ...
> IMHO that is making more work than necessary for everybody. So yes
> please- lets have a datbase, with drawings Ron.
Definitely !
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
I was impressed too with the Airworld strobe but came away with unanswered
questions. These were:
What is the output of the strobe? The current draw is only quoted as 2 amps so
the energy of output can`t be that high unless the 2 amps is flowing at the
upper end of the voltage range they quote for the unit (80 volts). In which case
was the display at Cranfield operating at 80v and if operated at 13v will it
appear much less bright.
The unit certainly appeared attractive and at a realistic price; I`m still
trying to get answers to my questions. If anyone else gets them first, then
please post them here.
Rgds Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Approved Mods |
The Europa Club is trying to sort it hang on in there will keep you
appraised of any developments Ron No 33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Blue@carolina-chat.com wrote
>Please read the attachment. Thanks, Robert
>
>
> I design and make mini-beams for CB and Ham radios. These
> beams are about the size of a TV antenna and can be used
> inside and outside. The mini-beams can even be used by
> by 18-wheelers while stationary. I've sold these beams in
> four states and I have been trying to find a way to broaden
> my market. These beams are guaranteed to work, and I believe
> there is a big market out there for them. They are very
> inexpensive at just $30.00 a set. I have talked all over the
> world with these beams, and I am convinced that no longer will
> consumers have to settle for the huge, unsightly beams in order to
> communicate properly. They are perfect for the modern sub-
> divisions that will not allow the bigger beams, and since they
> look so similar to a TV antenna, others might never know that
> you are a radio operator. The booms on the beams are no longer
> than five feet, and there is no element on the beams longer
> than five feet. The weight of the beams is about five pounds,
> and there are several different styles made. The side rejection
> and gain are good, and the mini-beams are very durable. The beams
> are made to function on 10 and 11 meters. If you can help me
> in any way with the marketing of the beams, I would be very
> appreciative. I have a patent pending on the mini-beams, and I
> really believe that they would sell. Thanks again for any help
> or consideration that you may give.
> Robert Hudson
> 209 Tabby Creek Circle
> Summerville, S.C.
> 29483
> 803-821-1390
>
>
Robert - I think you should know you're wasting your time posting your ads
to the Europa List. This list is for discussion of the Europa home-built
aeroplane, and has no interest in CB or ham radios. Posting ads
indiscriminately like this is a good way to get a lot of people mad at you
very fast.
Thank you
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
>I was impressed too with the Airworld strobe but
>What is the output of the strobe?
>was the display at Cranfield operating at 80v and if operated at 13v will it
>appear much less bright.
Duncan McFadyean
up with the following info:
Until 30th September a two sender unit is priced at =A3195 incl VAT
It takes 10 - 85 volts AC or DC; ( ie. ideal for 2-stroke Rotaxes)
3 wire system to avoid interference;
56 Joules output 8 mile range at dusk;
indefinite life;
controller weighs 310 grams;
Airworld UK, 11 Keach Close, Winslow Buckinghamshire, MK18 3PX,
fax 01296-713303
with them.
Bill
Bill W-Wynne N52=B036.7' W004=B004.5' (N Wales) 01654 710101/2/3(fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Fleming <pccomfort(at)loop.com> |
| Subject: | Open Cell Foam Materials |
Hi,
Curious to know if there are any new open cell foam materials that have
sound attenuation characteristics.
Currently working on hearing protection products, and searching for new
materials to be utilized in earmuffs or earplugs.
Can you point me in the right direction for searching the internet.
Thanks.
Tom Fleming
Industrial Designer
Los Angeles, CA
"I think ... therefore I am what I am" ... Descartes + Pop-Eye
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Open Cell Foam Materials |
Next time Tom,turn off MIME encoding in your mailer.
Just in case anyone was wondering, Tom's message was ........
------
Hi,
Curious to know if there are any new open cell foam materials that have
sound attenuation characteristics.
Currently working on hearing protection products, and searching for new
materials to be utilized in earmuffs or earplugs.
Can you point me in the right direction for searching the internet.
Thanks.
Tom Fleming, pccomfort(at)loop.com
Industrial Designer
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
A simple question for all those ahead of me:
The instructions say that you cut out the wheel well on the underside of the
fuse along the edges of the bonded in cockpit module. You cut it back 31
inches from the firewall.
I notice from photos that the end of the cutout is curved to match the tyre
itself. If I cut back 31 inches, will I have to cut further to get the
curve (good answer) or will I have to cover in bits of the cut out around
the tyre (bad answer, patching up bits that need not have come out in the
first place)?
John Bampfylde, #130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wheelwell size |
Hello John,
31 inches is the max depth you need, so if you want to curve it to match
the tyre, the curves will be less than that. However, unless you make the
fuel pump bulkhead curved too, there will be a muck trap on each side. Making
the cutout straight eases problems with bulkheads- its a personal choice.
When you make the cutout, also stick a couple of tapes down the sides to join
the fuzz floor to the inside of the cockpit module tunnel.
As an aside, i just bolted on the engine mount to my 912. Could'nt tighten
my allen key onto either of the top socket headed screws properly until
removing the carbs, but it was easier to take off the inlet castings, leaving
the carbs attached to them. For the top port, i also had to remove the top
water inlet (outlet?) to start my allen key in the socket head. A doddle once
youve done that, though.
chus, dave
kit67
also known as.. dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wheelwell size |
Dear John sorry but don't shoot the messenger please mine measures about
30.5" from the firewall face to the apex of the curve. Ron S No33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JohnJMoran(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 2% Accuracy/Ampreg 20???? |
Electronic scales are generally rated for accuracy as a percentage of actual
load rather than full scale, plus or minus a few counts in the least
significant digit. Its difficult to say what your accuracy will be without
knowing the specs for your scale.
I use an OHAUS scale, model LS200. This has a 200g maximum with 0.1g
resolution. The error is 0.75% of actual load or +/- 3 counts, whichever is
greater. This gives 0.75% accuracy down to about 30g, where 0.3g is 1%. The
0.1g resolution is appropriate since one drop is just about 0.1g. Cost of
the LS200 was about $90 US.
I bought a 1qt poly bottle with a flip top over a 1cm opening in the cover to
hold the resin. This allows pouring rapidly by squeezing the bottle to get
the approximate amount desired. Then I use a discarded mustard squeeze bottle
to add resin one drop at a time until an exact gram amount is reached.
The PTM&W hardner is lower viscosity than the resin so a squeeze bottle used
to dispense drinking water when participating in sports works fine. This has
a flipover spout which seals. It allows dispensing the hardner in a stream
with firm pressure or drop by drop with lesser pressure. Again, its
relatively easy to dispense to the desired weight within 0.1g.
It is important that the poly bottles seal well to avoid moisture pickup
between uses.
I used a spreadsheet to print a table giving resin quantities for each gram
from 20 to 140 vs the total including hardner in the next column. Just pour
epoxy to the approximate desired weight, top up to the next exact gram, add
hardner to the nearest 0.1 gm as read from the table, and off you go. It
takes less than a minute per batch.
So, for a total outlay of about $3 for plastic bottles, one can dispense
epoxy fairly efficiently. The scale, unfortunately, is my most expensive tool
so far.
A side benefit of using an electronic scale is that it works well for the 5
minute epoxy too even though only a few grams are mixed at a time - the mix
ratio is less critical here. And, if I ever get to the fuselage, it should
work well for the Redux. Another plus is that you develop a feel for the
amount required in grams per square foot to be covered so you seldom mix much
more than is needed. Now if I could only figure a use for all the epoxy I've
saved....
John Moran, A044
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denys.Gover" <Denys.Gover(at)aph.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheelwell size |
DaveBuzz(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello John,
>
> As an aside, i just bolted on the engine mount to my 912. Could'nt tighten
> my allen key onto either of the top socket headed screws properly until
> removing the carbs, but it was easier to take off the inlet castings, leaving
> the carbs attached to them. For the top port, i also had to remove the top
> water inlet (outlet?) to start my allen key in the socket head. A doddle once
> youve done that, though.
>
> chus, dave
> kit67
> also known as.. dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk...
>
hello all,
Without exactly knowing all the details about the allen key not fitting what about
cutting down the allen key
so it will fit (making a special purpose tool or is the allen key way too big?)
rather than removing carbys or
inlet manifolds?
Regards Denys Gover
Canberra Aust.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denys.Gover" <Denys.Gover(at)aph.gov.au> |
hello All,
Just daydreaming away here. What about a wheel up landing? Just looking
at two posters of elsa and yuro and the wheel seems to protrude a little
from the fuse and would minimise any wheel up damage(?) or will that mean
a flapless landing and can NEVER happen. The propeller and wing tip might
not come off to well but the main fuse should survive OK. I know that a
blanik glider can be landed wheel up without any problems apart from a
red face and a few groans from under the wing to lift it so the wheel can
be put down.
Any comments?
Denys Gover
Canberra Aust.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
| Subject: | Re: Wheelwell size |
It's OK Ron I haven't cut it that far back yet ;-). Having got this far
through I am getting a feel for the where to tread carefully...
John
>Dear John sorry but don't shoot the messenger please mine measures about
>30.5" from the firewall face to the apex of the curve. Ron S No33.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
>hello All,
>
>Just daydreaming away here. What about a wheel up landing?
Likely to be a long one, even putting the tailwheel down normally and
dropping onto the main - due to O flaps...
More to the point, the outriggers can occasionally collapse leading to
wingtip scrapes: we are putting in skid blocks to minimise the damage.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
| Subject: | ards & Panel labels |
now do on the ground!! Graham will understand.
won't be mine!!
Bill W-Wynne N52=B036.7' W004=B004.5' (N Wales) 01654 710101/2/3(fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Lean <100557.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
May I introduce myself to your mailing list and draw your attention to the
attached safety warning notice which may be important to some Europa builders
who have fitted (or who are about to fit) a fuel pressure switch.
I am a PFA member and owner of a self built and (now) safe high performance
popular kit aeroplane who's make we will not mention on this list !
I am also a qualified engineer and a CAA licenced design signatory for aircraft
electrical systems, so I am always interested in any problems especially safety
related. I hope you will allow me to follow your list and in return I can try
to offer any advice (or argument) for free! (provided it doesnt involve me in
any work !!!)
Gordon Lean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Lean <100557.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
SAFETY WARNING
WITHDRAWAL FROM SERVICE
of the FUEL PRESSURE SWITCH type GL502
The AVcomm Developments Ltd. GL501 Warning system was designed to allow PFA
members to comply with the mandatory, Low Voltage ,Starter Motor engaged
warnings , plus either a Low Fuel or Low Fuel Pressure warning.
Low Fuel Pressure is detected by the GL502 Pressure Switch fitted between the
electric fuel pump and the engine. Empirical evidence has indicated that the
full life of the unit as derived from accelerated life tests may not be
reached in some cases. This is highlighted in two problem areas. The first
is that it has proven to be very difficult to source a reliable pressure
sensor to work at the low pressures in the fuel line, resulting in the Low
Pressure Warning Light sometimes remaining ON. The second is potentially much
more serious, in that additives in certain fuels can corrode the sensor
allowing fuel to contaminate the switch rendering it's operation
unpredictable and in some early models this can cause a degradation of the
sealant. This has resulted in one instance of a fuel leak whilst airborne.
Because of the above problems, and the ongoing difficulty of producing a safe
cost effective Pressure Switch which can be used with any fuel likely to be
encountered in PFA aircraft, AVcomm Developments Ltd., in conjunction with
RD Aviation Ltd., have decided to cease production of the GL502 switch and
recall all that have been sold.
The mandatory functions of Low Voltage and Starter Engaged warning are still
available through the GL501 Control Unit and it is recommended that the GL502
Fuel Pressure switch be removed from the fuel system and the sensor wire
shorted to earth. The GL502 switch should be returned to RD Aviation Ltd.,
who will, on receipt of the unit, refund the price of the GL502, less any
discount applied on purchase.
The logic of the 2 pins on the GL501 Control Unit which are connected to the
GL502 Fuel Pressure Switch is:- closed circuit - light OFF, open circuit -
light ON. This circuit can be utilised for any other warning function.
AVcomm Developments Ltd. and RD Aviation Ltd. regret the inconvenience caused,
but trust that customers will accept that Flight Safety must be the prime
consideration.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Lean <100557.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
May I introduce myself to your mailing list and draw your attention to the
attached safety warning notice which may be important to some Europa builders
who have fitted (or who are about to fit) a fuel pressure switch.
I am a PFA member and owner of a self built and (now) safe high performance
popular kit aeroplane who's make we will not mention on this list !
I am also a qualified engineer and a CAA licenced design signatory for aircraft
electrical systems, so I am always interested in any problems especially safety
related. I hope you will allow me to follow your list and in return I can try
to offer any advice (or argument) for free! (provided it doesnt involve me in
any work !!!)
Gordon Lean
| moira(at)avnet.co.uk
-+- | http://www.avnet.co.uk
----(*)---- | P.O.Box 361, St. Albans, Herts, AL2 3YP
o/ \o | +44 (0)1727 868468
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety Warning |
Gordon Lean wrote:
>
> May I introduce myself to your mailing list and draw your attention to the
> attached safety warning notice which may be important to some Europa builders
> who have fitted (or who are about to fit) a fuel pressure switch.
>
I'm using WinDis32 relaying mail to Netscape and didn't receive any
attachment.
Anybody else have a problem?
Regards,
Dave & Margaret Watson
#224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Safety Warning |
Dear Gordon thank you for the Gen you are welcome to share our efforts and
we don't mind at mentioning Kitfoxes at all, I still love em Ron Swinden
No 33 Chairman Europa Club
Your warning came as three seperate messages for some reason which I do not
fully understand but was still apprieciated. Ron.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Jenkins <tfj(at)apusapus.demon.co.uk> |
Organisation: Don't put it down; put it away!
| Subject: | Re: Safety Warning |
> Gordon Lean wrote:
> >
> > May I introduce myself to your mailing list and draw your
> > attention to the attached safety warning notice which may be
> > important to some Europa builders who have fitted (or who are
> > about to fit) a fuel pressure switch.
> >
>
> I'm using WinDis32 relaying mail to Netscape and didn't receive any
> attachment.
> Anybody else have a problem?
I saw the "attachment" as a separate email message. I doubt that
this problem is due to either WinDis32 or Netscape but to an
unfortunate choice of wording by Gordon Lean. It might also be
attributable to CompuServe's inability to send anything more that
simple/plain text messages to Internet addresses. Gordon also seems
to have sent the cover note twice (once at 16:53 and again at 22:38).
Regards, Trevor.
--
"Real Men don't Read Instruction Manuals"
Tim Allen, Home Improvement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
>internet:europa(at)avnet.co.uk
>>On page Z-6, you show a 70 amp fuse from the starter to terminal B on the
>>Alt. Should that supplied by NSI for us Subaru guys? Looking in
>>Aircraft Spruce's catalog, they don't offer much of a selection.
>>Klixon for around $80. I have discussed this with other builders and they
>>aren't aware of this requirement. Is this item really necessary?
>>If this is a question that should be put on the KitfFox list, please do.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Jim Rose
"Big" fuses can be a problem in homebuilts . . . by "big" I'm talking
30 amps an up. We've been working the fat-fuse issue with several builders
in both permanent magnet (rotax) and externally excited (NSI) alternators.
I'll offer the following to answer your question: For fuse requirements
50 amps and up, the CLASSIC approach in airplanes calls for ANL series
devices mounted on insulated posts supported by molded, insulating bases.
The objection ANL fuses is size of the base which is also expensive.
The fuses aren't real expensive but combined with the mounting base,
they're really not very attractive in terms of dollars and space
required. Bussman makes a JJS and JJN series fuse with
some interesting features. Beginning with 70 amp devices and larger,
the fuse cartridge is terminated on each end with healthy copper tabs
with holes in them! Hmmmm . . . how about bolting wires to the
fuse and covering it with heatshrink? Turns out that this works
pretty well and provides a compact (1.5" diam x 3" long) assembly that
simply ties into a wire bundle. Problem is that the smallest fuse
in the series is 70 amp. Okay, let's use 4AWG wire (rated for 72 amps)
to wire up 35, 40, 50, 55 -and- 60 amp alternators. It's agreed that
4AWG wire is plenty big for a 35 amp machine but it's not too big; the
4AWG/70A combo finds it's way onto most of my system diagrams.
You can get the JJN/JJS series fuses from local electrical supply houses
that sell to electricians. There are a number of brands of equivalent
fuses . . . the guy behind the counter should be able to cross it to
what ever brand he stocks. Also, B&C offers a kit consisting of the
fuse, bolts, nuts, 4AWG terminals and 1" heatshrink for finishing off
the installation.
We've been trying a smaller, waterproof, in-line fuse holder (Bussman
model HFB) for protecting the main feedwire from a Rotax 912 alternator
system. The alternator would like to be wired with 10AWG which is
mechanically too big for this fuseholder. I've supplied this holder
to about a dozen Rotax 912 builders . . . most went together with
no problems but a couple have had problems with the relatively stiff
10AWG wire and the semi-flexible fuseholder. I've been looking into
the "fusible link" technology used on cars. Turns out the so called
fusible link is just a piece of copper wire . . . about 4AWG steps
smaller than the wire it protects. In our application, we'll take about
8" of 14AWG and slice it onto the end of the 10AWG alternator feedwire.
Ordinary terminals and butt splices are used to hook everything together.
Now, in the very rare instance this wire does get fused, we need to be
sure it does it in an orderly fashion. I propose to insure an acceptable
"failure" by sleeving the fuse link with a fiberglass/silicon sleeving.
I've got some testing to do with this combination before I ship to
builders. The really nice things about this combination are resistance
to effects of age and the very low parts count. The technique uses
ordinary, low cost materials with excellent service capabilities. Watch
this space for future developments. In the mean time, hit up your local
wire-store for the 70 amp devices.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
****************************
* Go ahead, make my day. *
* Show me where I'm wrong! *
****************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Dawes-Gamble <tmdg(at)uksr.hp.com> |
| Subject: | met: tmdg Weather pages |
Hello again everyone.
I seem to be getting more than my fair share of mail asking me to
change peoples email addresses in their registration for my Aviation
Weather pages. I also get many people reply to my mail to say that they
have recieved messages that I have sent out via the mailing list.
Below are the instructions on how to do any admin tasks you may
need to do to keep your registration up to date.
The help page http://www.avnet.co.uk/tmdg/html/help.html cover most things.
If you are not able to solve your problem though the programs provided by
the help page then by all means email me.
If you wish to change you email address then you need to delete you current
user id and re-register. You should be able to use the same user id as
you previously used as the chances of someone picking your id are very slim.
As far as Email about any problems goes. Plese remember there are over
3000 users of the page and I really am not likely to know you from Adam.
So you need to tell me the following.
Your User Id for my weather page:
The URL of the Page:
What options you selected.
What value you keyed in any of the boxes.
The error you encountered.
The date and time of the Error in GMT:
I will then be able to lookup your atempt in the log.
If your problem can be solved by reading the user guide I will most likely
not reply. If I do reply it may well just be to give you the URL of the user
guide.
I also get a lot of message asking can you get weather for such and such
well I don't have any control over which stations provide weather.
If you find that weather is missing from a station over a prolonged period
then by all means let me know.
Finaly. Winds Aloft and other weather charts and forcasts. I hope to
be able to give you some good news on that towards the end of Novermber
but don't hold your breath.
Best regards,
Tom.
The top level URL is http://www.avnet.co.uk/tmdg/weather/main_menu.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety Warning |
Trevor Jenkins wrote:
>
> > Gordon Lean wrote:
> > >
> > > May I introduce myself to your mailing list and draw your
> > > attention to the attached safety warning notice which may be
> > > important to some Europa builders who have fitted (or who are
> > > about to fit) a fuel pressure switch.
> > >
> >
> > I'm using WinDis32 relaying mail to Netscape and didn't receive any
> > attachment.
> > Anybody else have a problem?
>
> I saw the "attachment" as a separate email message. I doubt that
> this problem is due to either WinDis32 or Netscape but to an
> unfortunate choice of wording by Gordon Lean. It might also be
> attributable to CompuServe's inability to send anything more that
> simple/plain text messages to Internet addresses. Gordon also seems
> to have sent the cover note twice (once at 16:53 and again at 22:38).
>
> Regards, Trevor.
>
> --
>
> "Real Men don't Read Instruction Manuals"
> Tim Allen, Home Improvement
>
Maybe they should sign-up with a real Internet service provider like
Demon or Pipex!!!
Thanks for the information Gordon, we got the 'attachment' the following
day, keep it coming:-)
Gordon, what are comments with regard to fuses versus CB's?
Dave & Margaret Watson
#224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Damper |
I also have a report from a nearby Europa flyer (lucky man) who says the
damper has transformed the landing characteristic from "special" to
"normal". This must mean "safer", for the less experienced. I have
delayed my final inspection to incorporate it, as I don't want to
disassemble the u/c twice (mod 28). The factory however have only
delivered a few as I understand it. Please will they hurry - the winter
is nearly here and first flight opportunities are decreasing.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
Would be interested to here of any speculation (unless someones already
attempted it!) of how a Europa would perform in a wheelup ditching.
Probaly quite well; would it nose over? would it sink?
Rgds. Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
Duncan McFadyean wrote:
>
> Would be interested to here of any speculation (unless someones already
> attempted it!) of how a Europa would perform in a wheelup ditching.
>
> Probaly quite well; would it nose over? would it sink?
Some time ago the factory told me that they expected that it would
float. Definitely a plus if you expect to do much over-water flying !
Regards
Martin
--
Martin W. Berner,
26 Mayfield Road, Valsayn Park, Trinidad, The West Indies
Live Long and Prosper !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Placards & Panel labels |
<> (Nick Mercado)
Yes I can confirm that - but if you want NO STEP notices be sure to
specify the thinnest possible base material. This is clearly limited by
the engraving process and cannot be as thin as plastic versions available
(at 4 times the price) but Nick is laying in 1/32" in the right colour,
which is the same thickness as the wing walk material. Europa sell the
latter to you "enough for both wings" which reaches forward only to the
spar; but perhaps any further forward would be too far into the laminar
flow area.
gemin
|
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Davis <101621.3070(at)compuserve.com> |
I hear a bit about this rather alarming/embarassing/expensive occurrence. Does
anyone know how often this happens or has it only been once which is being
repeated?
Also, if it happens a lot does anyone know if anything is being done to find out
the cause and correct what must be the fault?
Regards,
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
>Duncan McFadyean wrote:
>>
>> Would be interested to here of any speculation (unless someones already
>> attempted it!) of how a Europa would perform in a wheelup ditching.
>>
>> Probaly quite well; would it nose over? would it sink?
>
Our Grob motor glider floated ok, and it has only a thin layer of foam in
the composite skin. It floated a bit nose-down in a light swell, but the
crew remained on board for the 20 minutes it took for the helicopter to
arrive. A lifeboat towed it ashore soon afterwards. They discovered that if
they towed it forwards, then it submarined down and disappeared, and when
they stopped it came back up, so they towed it backwards and neatly removed
all the control surfaces. A spell at the manufacturers where all the metal
components were replaced restored it to full health, and there have been no
problem at all since - and it is over eleven years ago now.
I guess the foam in the Europa would become water logged, so recovery would
be more problematic. Anyone care to guess how long it would take, and how
the buoyancy would be affected ? Obviously the Grob was free to fill with
water instantly, but the foam was protected.
-- Colin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
As an international ferry pilot, I haven't ever ditched (sound of
knuckles rapping wooden desk), but obviously I've given it a lot of
thought and researched as many articles and accounts as I could find.
I'd suspect that Europa would probably float rather more
nose-down than the Grob: about the same engine weight, but a lighter tail
(and not nearly so far aft!) to balance it. I'd also suspect that the
fuselage would fill fairly rapidly via the wheel well.
The big question is, "what happens as the wings fill, and how
long will that take?" Assuming they're pretty well sealed (silicon?) at
the root, they'll probably fill rather gradually via the aileron
bellcrank on the wing itself, plus around the inboard aileron connection
once the fuselage has filled to that point. Based on the behavior of
some scraps in a bucket, the foam itself will take a very long time to
"waterlog"--I think hypothermia will probably set in sooner!
It would also be very interesting to find out whether, once the
airplane has come to rest nose down in the water, how high the bottom
front corner of the door is above the surface--i.e., will the wretched
thing swamp immediately one opens a door to get out?
My "gut level" feeling is that it'll initially float pretty high
for a few moments, probably about 30 deg. nose down, then gradually
settle as the fuselage fills to about mid-chest height--at the same time
perhaps getting a bit less nose down. I don't think I'd want to stay
aboard very long.
We plan to bring our Europa to Europe in a couple of years, and
of course we'll have an adequate life raft as well as full immersion
suits. An extra fuel tank will go into the baggage compartment; we'll
ship all our personal baggage across (maybe to Wombleton?), and basically
travel with just a toothbrush (shared) and a credit card (to buy
toothpaste at each overnight stop!).
I sincerely hope all this information is totally unnecessary!
Peter Lert, US037
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Undercarriage Damper |
In message , Graham Clarke
writes
>I also have a report from a nearby Europa flyer (lucky man) who says
the
>damper has transformed the landing characteristic from "special" to
>"normal". This must mean "safer", for the less experienced. I'Please
will they hurry - the winter
>is nearly here and first flight opportunities are decreasing.
>
>gemin
>
I'll go along with that!!!
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
Not a common problem that I am aware -although the latching mechanisms have
undergone several revisions :) but it has happened, and murphy's law
states.... etc.
Hence the desire for wingtip skids...
Anyone know the source of some (cheap) titanium stock.... say 1/8" X 3/4" X
20"...
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
To all my friends and admirers out there, would they both please note my
new e-mail address.
And:
anyone fitting a Terra TRT250D transponder and a AT3000 encoder might
like to know the following:
The D4 connection is not used unless you plan reaching really high -
like 94,100 feet!
The labels on pin 12 and 24 on the TRT250D are confusing since they only
describe the functions of the connections and not where to connect them
( these are the words of the guru at Terra). They are provided to make
wiring easier and in fact are used to provide grounds to the AT3000 and
would normally be connected to pins 6 and 15 on the encoder - which pair
you connect doesn't matter. Hope that makes sense - should find out at
the weekend when I fit the panel to RATZ - so far the pretty lights
come on with a bench test.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
A long time ago Martin Hynes asked me (in private e-mail):
>Have you heard of any one being allowed fit a child seat or baby seat to a
>Europa? With another on the way, my long suffering partner may draw
>the line at leaving he/her at home.
I don't think either of us got around to asking the question in this forum.
I guess it wouldn't weigh more than a couple of folding bicycles :-), so
there shouldn't be a weight issue, but there probably are restraint &
positioning issues. I don't think anyone in the UK has approached PFA
engineering on the topic. Has anyone in the USA done anything like this, I
wonder? It's just of academic interest to me as we have no offspring to
transport, but I imagine there are other folk in Martin's position.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
Miles McCallum wrote:
>
> Not a common problem that I am aware -although the latching mechanisms have
> undergone several revisions :) but it has happened, and murphy's law
> states.... etc.
> Hence the desire for wingtip skids...
>
> Anyone know the source of some (cheap) titanium stock.... say 1/8" X 3/4" X
> 20"...
Build a Tri-gear and you won't have the problem:-)
Dave & Margaret Watson
#224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denys.Gover" <Denys.Gover(at)aph.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
Miles McCallum wrote:
>
> Not a common problem that I am aware -although the latching mechanisms have
> undergone several revisions :) but it has happened, and murphy's law
> states.... etc.
> Hence the desire for wingtip skids...
>
> Anyone know the source of some (cheap) titanium stock.... say 1/8" X 3/4" X
> 20"...
>
> Miles
>
Check with glider manufacturers or glider maintenance organisation.
Gliders often have such devices on their wingtips and would also
probably have a hole for a tiedown rope.
Regards Denys Gover
Canberra Australia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denys.Gover" <Denys.Gover(at)aph.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
Margaret & Dave Watson wrote:
> > Anyone know the source of some (cheap) titanium stock.... say 1/8" X 3/4" X
> > 20"...
>
> Build a Tri-gear and you won't have the problem:-)
>
> Dave & Margaret Watson
> #224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
Hello all,
I have thought about that, but how does it go on the trailer when taking
it home??? Pulling the wings off and taking it home is the most useful
feature fo me.
Denys Gover
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D.Howard(at)kid0110.wins.icl.co.uk |
| Subject: | ): Outrigger Collapse |
> Hello all,
> I have thought about that, but how does it go on the trailer when taking
> it home??? Pulling the wings off and taking it home is the most useful
> feature fo me.
> Denys Gover
I figure the Tri-gear will sit quite safely on a normal flat bed trailor.
I also assume (probably wrongly) that this will be cheaper than
the custom model needed by the mono wheel.
- Dave Howard (#304)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | king(at)skylink.it (Richard King) |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel up landings |
Duncan McFadyean wrote:
>>Would be interested to here of any speculation (unless someones already
>attempted it!) of how a Europa would perform in a wheelup ditching.
>
>Probaly quite well; would it nose over? would it sink?
>
Would it not be better to land with the wheel down? The flaps being down
would lower the approach and touchdown speeds . Also the wheel would touch
before the fuselage and would act as the step of a float; it is in front of
the C of G and this would reduce the likelyhood of the aircraft nosing in.
It is the sudden deceleration when the aircraft tries to emulate a
submarine that will hurt people.
Let's hope it never happens. I must admit to worrying about ditching a bit
when I am half way between the Azores arnd Antigua even with two engines.
There is an awful lot of nothing out there. Just remember the altenative
definition of ETOPS - Engines turn or passengers swim!
Regards,
Richard
Richard & Tricia King XX XXXX In the begining there was
Via S.Tommaso d'Aquino 7 X X X nothing, which exploded.
21100 Varese, Italy XXXX XXXX
Phone/Fax 39-332-320693 X X X
X X I R XXXX U R O P E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensitisation |
At 09:27 AM 01/08/96 BST-1, you wrote:
>Quote
"Incidentally dust problems disappear if you go to wet
>sanding as soon as you can."
>
>Graham,
Could you please explain about wet sanding? If people are wondering about
the potential for acetone finding its way through the glass layup pinholes,
why then shouldn't there be some concern about
"good old H20?
Another Aussie Builder is having "tackiness problems" with his layups using
the slow hardener. I remember reading about this somewhere but can't find
the source, or the outcome. Can you or anyone else help?
Thanks in anticipation
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Lean <100557.3426(at)compuserve.com> |
Personally I don't like contact breakers being used to protect the wiring to
avionics.
1) pilots can reset them easily and repeatedly then set fire to the wiring.
2) they wont act quickly enough to save the equipment in the event of an
overvoltage surge. (very common with some Rotax regulators),or save the
regulator in the event of a short.
BEWARE when installing equipment :hardly any american sourced avionic gear can
stand reversed or over voltage. Euro made gear is usually OK.
CBs are ok for motors, lights etc
IF fuses are used then you really should have a spare ONE of each neatly clipped
and obviously labled in the glove compartment or on the panel in case of
emergency .
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | trevor.jackson(at)ndirect.co.uk |
At Cranfield 95 I asked Francis Donaldson: Now that the PFA covers
aircraft wth more than two seats, can we fit a child seat if we keep
within the Europa's weight and balance requirements. Answer: I don't
see why not, do a design with calculations to support it and I'll
look at it.
If our baby's still less than 80 pounds when I finish the 2-seater I
intend to do this.
Trevor Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
Peter Davis wrote:
>I hear a bit about this rather alarming/embarassing/expensive occurrence. Does
>anyone know how often this happens or has it only been once which is being
>repeated?
aeroplane level.
increased friction.
if you know what I mean! Easy when you know how. Star Trek's on I gotta go!
Bill W-Wynne N52=B036.7' W004=B004.5' (N Wales) 01654 710101/2/3(fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger Collapse |
>Check with glider manufacturers or glider maintenance organisation.
>Gliders often have such devices on their wingtips and would also
>probably have a hole for a tiedown rope.
>
>Regards Denys Gover
>Canberra Australia.
Re: Wingtip Skids
Gidday Denys,
What can you tell me about these skids in Aussie? Are you thinking of fixing
them to your a/c, or have you ordered one yet, I can't remember? My fuselage
kit should be coming out in the next 6 weeks or so, not that I need it yet,
but I prefer to have the whole kit here,then if the bubble bursts I have the
capability to complete my a/c.
Thanks for any advice in anticipation.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
I am drawing up an electrical diagram, using the one in the instructions as
a basis. From a high level perspective, what do builders feel about the
Europa supplied diagram? It seems to be to be simple, understandable and
technically all right (but I ain't no electrician).
One debatable issue may be the running of a 12AWG wire across one side of
the Avionics and 12v DC Bus circuit breakers. It seems a really good,
simple and light weight solution. Unfortunately in these circumstances I
believe Murphy's law must apply, saying it is flawed.
I would be grateful for any views.
John Bampfylde, #130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk (Jim Naylor) |
If anyone is looking for a Skyforce Tracker II moving map I have a brand
new one, for sale for =A3750 due to change of circumstances. It is complete
in its box with Warranty card and manual. ( I have one fitted in my Europa
and can highly recommend them) I also have a new locator for =A390 and 2
David Clark H10-40 in excellent condition for =A395 each. These prices
include VAT.
You can e-mail me on jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk or phone 01675 481605
Jim Naylor No 39
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Diagram |
John wrote:
>One debatable issue may be the running of a 12AWG wire across
>one side of the Avionics and 12v DC Bus circuit breakers.
Have already cut the c/b holes in my panel and was
planning on doing the same thing John, but have'nt checked the
wire size yet, with probably an inline fuse and switch (not
through the master) for the electric trim. Also plan to stick
multiple devices on some of the breakers, but only those which
have their own on/off switch.
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Diagram |
John Bampfylde wrote:
>
> I am drawing up an electrical diagram, using the one in the instructions as
> a basis. From a high level perspective, what do builders feel about the
> Europa supplied diagram? It seems to be to be simple, understandable and
> technically all right (but I ain't no electrician).
>
Some aircraft have the avionics master switch replaced with a solenoid
that is de-energised when the starter key is turned, hence turning off
all the the radio kit when you start the engine. One school of thought
says that modern radio equipment does not have to be turned off when
the engine is started, but I wouldn't like to take the chance!
Don't forget to check the volts drop for the cable size used, this can
be calculated from the ohms/foot figure given for the cable you are
using.
Dave & Margaret Watson
#224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bearder / Barraclough <106313.2726(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | k Out after Completion. |
To all FLYING Europa Owner,
My friends completed their Europa very early in the spring which has JUST
successfully flown its test program at Brunton/Wombleton after many months
of delay, and now they are finding great difficulty in getting checked out
themselves.
They apparently need someone with 50 hours experience on type to give them
5 hours dual. This, I think, is an insurance requirement. In my limited
experience, only 13,000 hours, I would have thought landing experience
would be more appropriate rather than total time. They are both very
experinced light aeroplane aviators and have time on taildraggers.
Has anyone out there had similar problems and if so how did you get checked
out?
I am many months from completion and hope this will not be a problem when I
am ready with more experience around!
We feel there is a fear that the Europa will suffer the same early problems
that the Kitfox went through with a bad accident record. I'm all in favour
of safety, but this check-out aspect seems to have been SOWN UP so tightly
by Europa/Insurers/PFA it makes flying your pride and joy after completion
almost impossible. That certainly will keep the accident record looking
good, NO FLYING - NO ACCIDENTS, but is far from ideal.
We have all been made aware that the transition from ground to air and vice
versa is DIFFERENT and much guideance has been given so lets get some more
Europas airborne with the owners at the controls. We are hopefully all
responsible, careful pilots with our own interest at heart when it comes to
safety. Are we being perhaps a little OVER cautious.
David
Builder #13 (Lucky for some I hope!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Diagram |
>One school of thought
>says that modern radio equipment does not have to be turned off when
>the engine is started, but I wouldn't like to take the chance!
We have one of the small Becker comms units in our Grob, and when you are
stopping and restarting the engine several times per flight, you get bored
with switching off the avionics. So we have gone 12 years without it causing
a problem (touch wood).
-- Colin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChuckPops(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Closeout Rib Layup???? |
Hopefully one of you out there can enlighten me-- In closing out the root
ribs, the manual states that the first two layers of bid should run about 2"
beyond the metal bush. Do they intend that after laying up the rib itself,
you turn the glass away from the rib/spar corner out about 7" along the spar
stub, which would imply that you have to snip holes so that the cloth can
pass around the bush? Or, is it that the glass should run only about 3" from
the rib/spar corner necessitating no bush holes? This is a bit confusing
since the manual has usually mentioned in the past whether or not you have to
cut holes.
Thanks in advance!
Chuck US#36
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Check Out after Completion. |
In message <199609300944_MC1-9EF-54E2(at)compuserve.com>, Bearder /
Barraclough <106313.2726(at)compuserve.com> writes
>To all FLYING Europa Owner,
>
>My friends completed their Europa very early in the spring which has JUST
>successfully flown its test program at Brunton/Wombleton after many months
>of delay, and now they are finding great difficulty in getting checked out
>themselves.
Isn't this precisely what the PFA Coaching Scheme is designed to
overcome? My understanding is that the insurers have been generally
supportive of the scheme because it promises a disciplined approach to
the problem.
I know that most insurers have been insistant in the past on "check
outs" with type experienced pilots whenever full hull cover, and in some
instances when only liability cover is required.
Obviously this is easier when there are enough pilots qualified by type
hours alone to fulfil this. The insurers have maintained a private list
of suitable check ride babysitters per type.
Perhaps since the announcement of the PFA scheme they have altered their
stance which is unfortunate in the case of new designs where the number
of pilots with sufficient type hours AND the particular qualifications
of the PFA scheme are in short supply.
In theory therefore this could also affect existing designs where new
owners are looking to obtain insurance for the first time.
I have suggested to the PFA that they reconsider the prospective coach
qualification requirement to include those high hour type pilots who may
not have sufficient total hours to qualify as full blown scheme coaches.
A sort of second level down from the luminairies but able to bring the
experience of several hundreds of hours of a particular type to bear.
Judging by the presently published list of coaches, neither to my
knowledge with extensive Europa time, the thing looks somewhat stalled
at the moment.
Maybe a letter to Shoreham might oil the works.
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Root Closeout Rib Layup???? |
Hello Chuck,
>Do they intend that after laying up the rib itself, you turn
>the glass away from the rib/spar corner out about 7" along the
>spar stub, which would imply that you have to snip holes so
>that the cloth can pass around the bush?
>Chuck US#36
Yes/no. Quite a few months ago (last year?) there was a
note from Europa saying that it was possible for the bushes to
come loose. To stop the rear ones from falling off the spar they
recommended a patch of 2 layers bid, drilling carefully through
after cure.
Sounds like Europa have incorporated that mod into your
(newer) instructions. Just stick a very short bit of dowel in the
hole and lay the bid right over the bush, drilling out after
cure. It helps to peel ply it too.
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | tronic Scale Accuracy Procedure |
John Moran A044,
Thanks for your reply about electronic scales. I have calibrated my scales
which are accurate to 1 gram using weights provided by my local
pharmacist/chemist. These weights he uses for his brews, and they are
approved i.e. accurate. I was able to crosscheck the assumption that the
changeover in numerical presentation would be at the 1/2 gram increment of
the previous gram. My scales seem to have an accurate sensing device and are
downgraded from their more accurate "Bigger Brother" in the range, by simply
providing a less accurate presentation, not accurate to .1 gram. I then
crosschecked the approximation of what a drip of hardener weighs using water
as a similar specific gravity substitute. I appreciate hardener has a higher
surface tension so you probably get a larger drop. I used an eye dropper
with the rubber teat on the end, and its 17 drops to the gram in my case. I
thick that once my scales indicate the gram below what I want, the rest of
the addition will be a drip at a time until the scale indicates the desired
amount, which will be .1/2 gram less than desired, so another 7 drips will
approximate the exact amount. Whilst we probably understand this process, I
worry about my assistant making up a batch so my mixing sheet incorporates a
verbal crosscheck procedure so I can validate the accuracy without
physically having to do it myself.
If this system proves too cumbersome I was wondering if I could ask whether
you could send me a set of the scales you use, after receiving my money for
it and postage. I should wait and see if my system actually works first, but
I'm just sounding out my options. Could you send me your e-mail address.
Thanks again for your advice.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
The Aussie Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | box Overflow . . . |
My computer went down Tuesday, had to leave town Wednesday
and Dee was unable to empty my mailbox while I was gone.
It overflows at 100 messages and won't accept any more.
I'm getting indications from a number of folk that messages
to me have gone unanswered . . . can't answer them if I
don't see them!
My appologies. If anyone has something "in the pipe" that's
more than three days old, please resend the message. I've
cleared the decks of traffic that was waiting for me and
if I've left someone hanging, it's because I didn't see
their message.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
A week or so back Tony asked if a "list of approved mods existed" other
than the factory mods. Pete D refered him to the PFA chief engineer. At this
point I joined in to ask that people stand by so that we ( The Europa club)
could try and negotiate a mode of operating that would achieve what Tony was
looking for without imposing an impossible work load on the PFA. I sent
copies of the Email correspondence to Francis D and asked him for his
help. Rowland Carson Membership sec and David Watts editor also
volunteered their help. At the end of last week Francis wrote me and I also
spoke with him after I had seen his letter.
In essence Francis is, as ever prepared to help all he can but as his letter
makes clear there are at least and I quote " a couple of problems to be
overcome:
1 Many mods are not drawn up to a standard where they could be used by
other builders to replicate the modification. For example, if I have
examined a modification in situ we need less of a detailed drawing than if
we are working just on the basis of photographs and drawings. Many of the
drawings we receive are not fit to be given out to other builders due to the
risk of misinterpretation.
end of quote.
2. Some builders object to "their" modifications being passed on to other
builders because of their concern about liability for any accidents which
might subsequently occur due to "their" modification.
I propose to send the club a list stating the modification title and a brief
description, plus the aeroplane registration and the name and address of the
builder, but only if they are a club member. This will allow members of the
club to contact each other to discuss modifications and the originator of the
mod. can then pass on details if he so wishes."
end of qote.
Builders will of couse still have to keep the PFA informed of any mods but
if they can refer to the fact that they have used a previously approved mod
it should save time for all concerned.
The latest Europa flyer has just flown the coop but David will put the first
mod list in the next Europa Flyer so if there are any builders who are not
yet Europa club members and would like to join please contact Rowland Carson
on rowil(at)gn.apc.org and we will shorly be able to accept subscriptions on
credit cards and I know that will particularly help the o/seas guys See you
at Chavenage or Shoreham or where ever till them stay healthy and keep
building and flying Ron S No 33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Check Out after Completion. |
>I have suggested to the PFA that they reconsider the prospective coach
>qualification requirement to include those high hour type pilots who may
>not have sufficient total hours to qualify as full blown scheme coaches.
>A sort of second level down from the luminairies but able to bring the
>experience of several hundreds of hours of a particular type to bear.
I have 2000 hours of taildragger time in 6 types, semi-retired (I only work
in bad weather), would love to get my hands on a Europa, and am quite
willing to pay for a conversion course. Let me know if I can help.
-- Colin Wray
-------------------------------------------------------
Colin Wray, Greenchurch Software Ltd, UK
Email: colin(at)greench.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nawatasn Kongsamutr <b36ntk(at)ku.ac.th> |
| Subject: | raft engine requirment! |
> >
> > At present,my aerospace engineering department doing design & construction
> UAV(unmaned aircraft vehicle).We want to search utralight aircraft engine that
> have power about 25-30 Hp.for me,i'm senior aerospace engineering student.I'm
> Project management team.Please suggest me where i can find&buy it.
[Dept.of Aerospace Engineering,Kasetsart University,Bangkok,Thailand
> Fax No.:(662)579-8570
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nawatasn Kongsamutr <b36ntk(at)ku.ac.th> |
| Subject: | alight engine requirment! |
> >
> > At present,my aerospace engineering department doing design & construction
> UAV(unmaned aircraft vehicle).We want to search utralight aircraft engine that
> have power about 25-30 Hp(ecpecially for Rotax engine).For me,i'm
senior aerospace engineering student.I'm Project management team.Please help
us by tell me where i can find it .[Dept. of Aerospace Engineering,Kasetsart
University,Bangkok,Thailand
> Fax No.:(662)579-8570
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nawatasn Kongsamutr <b36ntk(at)ku.ac.th> |
| Subject: | raft engine requirment! |
> >
> > At present,my aerospace engineering department doing design & construction
> UAV(unmaned aircraft vehicle).We want to search utralight aircraft engine that
> have power about 25-30 Hp.for me,i'm senior aerospace engineering student.I'm
> Project management team.Please suggest me where i can find&buy it.
[Dept.of Aerospace Engineering,Kasetsart University,Bangkok,Thailand
> Fax No.:(662)579-8570
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nawatasn Kongsamutr <b36ntk(at)ku.ac.th> |
| Subject: | alight engine requirment! |
> >
> > At present,my aerospace engineering department doing design & construction
> UAV(unmaned aircraft vehicle).We want to search utralight aircraft engine that
> have power about 25-30 Hp(ecpecially for Rotax engine).For me,i'm
senior aerospace engineering student.I'm Project management team.Please help
us by tell me where i can find it .[Dept. of Aerospace Engineering,Kasetsart
University,Bangkok,Thailand
> Fax No.:(662)579-8570
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim switch ergonomics |
Graham Clarke wrote:-
>There are eight extreme position combinations for the three elements of
>trim-tab,indicator and switch, thus four ways of setting up the system.
>The Europa manuals show- trim-tab UP, indicator UP, toggle switch UP,
>(and the reverse) which at first sight all seems lcgical. Those of us
>used to wheel trimming, have for years been pushing the top of the wheel
>forward for nose down and the indicator follows in the same direction,
>but in the Europa this would be reversed. A trim wheel in effect rotates
>as if directly coupled to the pitch motion. This accords with the
>direction of movement of the yoke/stick. It would be natural,
>particularly if mounted on the tunnel to push the front/top of the switch
>for nosedown as if it were a wheel.
>
>It is perhaps less obvious if the switch is on the facia, but wheels are
>often in such a position, again requiring the top of the wheel to be
>"pushed" for nose down.
>
>I hope Europa/PFA let me reverse the switch action or I shall always be
>using the wrong end. I have not had an answer yet.
>
>Graham 2
We agree that the sense of the trim operation should be as you describe.
To state the operation formally:-
To trim the aircraft nose up (tab moves down), press the bottom of the
rocker switch, and the indicator moves up.
This is already correctly stated in the Final Inspection Checklist which I
believe you already have Graham - the Builders Manual and Owners Manual will
be changed at the next revision.
I cannot trace having received this question from you before, which is why
you have not previously had an answer!
Regards
Roger Bull
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com;
kitfox(at)colorado.edu;
europa(at)avnet.co.uk
>Bob,
>
>Just read your nice article in the October Comanche Flyer and I agree
>with most of what you wrote. It seem less than economical to spend
>two thousand dollars on a GPS when most of the same info can be obtained
>on a much less expensive version. . . . . .
The operative words here are "most of the same" to which I would
add "most of the time."
>the 2000 have adequate reception when being used "inside" the environs
>of a Comanche, or whatever? It's been my experience that if a GPS
>does not have an externally mounted antenna, acquisition of
>the required number of satellites is difficult. I also understand
>that an antenna kit is not available for the 2000, only the 4000,
>and at a price of $139.99.
All of my experience with the GPS-2000 in cars and airplanes
has been with the receiver up on the cowl deck or dashboard
to maximize view of the sky out the windshield. The receiver
annunciated adequate view of sky for navigation most of the time.
On occasion, it would flash a warning for a few seconds to a
minute or so. Right after an 90-degree change of heading at 160
kts, it would get confused and take perhaps a minute to two
minutes to get back on track.
>Until recently, I flew BE-90's for an air ambulance company here in
>Albuquerque. They provided some fancy "handhelds" for us to use when
>flying into some out-of-the-way places we frequented. An antenna was
>attached to the GPS and had a little suction cup to hold it in the side or
>front wind screen, moving it around to obtain better reception.
>Anyway, I would be somewhat concerned about a unit without some type
>of external antenna.
>
>If you have a moment, let me know what your experience has been with
>an in-flight situation using the 2000.
In no way am I suggesting that inexpensive hand-helds are a
REPLACEMENT for the more expensive panel mounts or hand helds
with external antennas. The thrust of the article was to suggest
that pilots NOT PUT OFF buying a GPS receiver because they
cannot currently afford the one they want. I'll further suggest that
a $200 hand-held can put the miracle of GPS navigation in IMMEDIATE
reach of everyone while they save up the bucks for their
"dream" receiver. When the big guy gets bolted to the panel,
the little guy can retire to the map case as a handy backup
for panel mounted stuff. Yes . . . the GPS 2000 does drop
out from time to time under certain conditions but by-in-large,
I found it's performance in terms of continuity of updates entirely
ADEQUATE for VFR navigation. I don't think I'm in too much
danger of getting lost for the few minutes that the little feller
goes off in the corner to think about where we're at! When it
does know where we are, it's accuracy was as good as or better
than the panel mounted Loran-C.
Thank you for your feedback!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
****************************
* Go ahead, make my day. *
* Show me where I'm wrong! *
****************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Thomas <100335.3566(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Europa Aviation Web Pages |
Europa Aviation now have their own web site.
The URL is ........
http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk/
The site is fairly large, at 50 pages of html and 119 images it should have
something for everyone. Not all pages are live yet, so please keep coming back
to check the what's new page.
As mentioned above the site is quite graphical, nothing too fancy, just lots of
pictures of Europas. I have done my best to ensure that the text is displayed
before the images and the images are as small as possible without losing too
much quality. It has been designed for MS I.E 3.0 and Netscape 2.0, however,
several people have tested the site successfully with other browsers.
Please send directly to me any suggestions for improvements, corrections etc
Many thanks to everyone who helped me get this site ready.
Best Wishes
Peter Thomas
Europa 191
100335.3566(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Trim switch ergonomics |
Europa Aviation Ltd wrote
>We agree that the sense of the trim operation should be as you describe.
>
>To state the operation formally:-
>
>To trim the aircraft nose up (tab moves down), press the bottom of the
>rocker switch, and the indicator moves up.
"Indicator up" = "nose-up trim": that all sounded very sensible until I
started to think about my own experience of trimmers.
The Cessnas I usually fly have a wheel mounted more-or-less on the vertical
panel for trim. To trim the aircraft nose up, you move the visible
periphery of the wheel down (equivalent to pushing the bottom half inwards)
and the trim tab moves down, giving increased nose-up trim. All in
agreement so far. However, my memory, from 3 days ago when I last flew one,
is that after the above operation, the indicator will have moved _down_, ie
it follows, somewhat more slowly, the sense of movement of the trim wheel
itself.
I guess it stems from the type of installation mentioned by Graham where
the wheel is mounted in a horizontal panel with the top half available for
manipulation. The indicator would then show which end was being made
artificially "heavy". I agree that it makes less sense when you mount the
wheel on a vertical panel, so that "indicator down" means "up trim", "nose
up" or "tail heavy". However, in 16 years of flying Cessnas I have never
noticed that it doesn't make sense until this very moment! On the other
hand, if the arrangement described by Roger were mounted in the horizontal
plane, the indications would be surely be misleading to most pilots.
I guess I could live with an _indicator_ which moved in the opposite to the
sense I expected, as long as the _switch_ itself worked as described. Is
there any standard for pitch trim indicators? Shouldn't we conform to it if
there is one? Some ergonomic decisions can have life-&-death implications
(like the old one of: is it the aeroplane or the horizon line that moves in
your artificial horizon?) but although this probably doesn't come into that
category, it would be nice to get it right (however you define that!).
Sorry if this has muddied the waters further - maybe some input is needed
from people who fly aircraft with other types of pitch trim indication (and
actuation).
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Over on the Flyer list a query about a syndicate for a Pulsar has led to
this posting ...
>Date: 02 Oct 96 05:01:01 EDT
From: Alan Jackson <100663.3267(at)compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: FLYER: Homebuild syndicate
>
>
><< Has he considered the Europa - and is he aware of the Europa e-mail
>list (more details to be found at
><http://www.avnet.co.uk/europa/index.html>)? >>
>
>Yes and yes.
>
>Now brace yourselves for some personal observations ....!
>
>The major problem (as I/we see it) with the Europa is what we consider
>to be an archaic process for building the flying surfaces. It is
>undoubtedly suitable for one-off designs but (as I see it) hardly the
>best way of delivering a kit. The lay-up process results is a great deal
>(hundreds of hours) of boring, tedious, dusty and repetitive work.
>
>Much of this is avoided by builders of what amounts to 'Airfix' kits,
>such as the Jabiru, KIS, Pulsar and others. I can't help thinking that,
>with so many Europa kits delivered, it isn't time for one with
>pre-formed surfaces. This was poo-pooed on the Europa list when I
>suggested it earlier this year. I don't know that the finished result is
>any better than, for example, the Pulsar in which the wings consist of
>foam ribs glued to the spar then covered with pre-formed, sheets of
>fibre-glass.
>
>I lurked on the Europa list for several months and was struck by the
>multitude of hints, tricks and minor mods. that builders needed to
>resort to. The sheer number of these did not fill me with the belief
>that the build process and design was well thought out, quite the
>reverse. Pulsar (and Starlite) builders I have talked to express delight
>at the clarity of the manuals, simplicity of design and remarkably small
>number of problem areas they encountered that need ingenuity to overcome.
>
>I also can't help thinking that the Europa kit package, crude as it is,
>especially compared to the Jabiru (which requires NO surface finishing),
>is somewhat over-priced. TRI-R were selling KIS 2-seat 'Airfix' kits (not
>just a pair of hull 'buckets' and pre-cut slabs of foam) at the PFA
>rally for less than L12k. The Jabiru kit (including instruments,
>excluding engine) runs out at L13k.
>
>Finally, I've heard rumours that the Europa is substantially more
>difficult to land than people have been led to believe, a typical
>problem being broken out-riggers.
>
>Alan Jackson
>Tailored Information
>http://www.datatext.co.uk/it
This comment about the wing construction seems to be in line with what a
number of US people have been saying. Any progress over there from those
who have been investigating alternative wing construction methods?
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Europa vs Pulsar |
> >
> >Finally, I've heard rumours that the Europa is substantially more
> >difficult to land than people have been led to believe, a typical
> >problem being broken out-riggers.
> >
Interesting isn't it... I seem to only recall once incident posted about a broken
outrigger (and that was with an early
version) yet it seems to have grown into an urban legend!
As far as landing goes, any plane is difficult to land if you aren't familiar with
its characteristics. How many times do
trainee pilots bounce trikes before they get used to it? As with all aircraft,
practice makes perfect.
Regarding comments made about construction methods. My attitude is that the building
of the plane is just as much of an
enjoyable exercise as flying them. I know people who have bought quick build kits,
flown them for a while and then bought
more difficult kits simply because they missed the joy of building. I rather enjoy
the challenge of getting the layups done
and the satisfaction of a job well done.
Certainly the Europa is more expensive than many similar kits but then most technology
originating from the UK is. I do know
however know that I made the right decision buying a Europa. The support is great,
the comeraderie of the group members is
great, the construction system is just enough of a challenge for a first timer
so that you do have to think about what you
are doing rather than just plugging bits together and most of all - it is fun :-)
Regards
Tony Krzyzewski
#272
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/03/96
Time: 09:53:34
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | k Out after Completion. |
>>They apparently need someone with 50 hours experience on type to give them
5 hours dual<<
That certainly seems a bit extreme. It would make more sense if the requirement
was 5 hrs with Martin Stoner, or "up to 5 hours" if he thinks you're up to
speed. 50 take offs and landings in varying conditions would be more use than
hours of upper air work.
A potential problem with experienced Europa pilots is that they have forgotten
what a steep learning curve it can be. Also the aeroplane is different now. The
problems are being experienced by pilots meeting a new up to date Europa, still
a bit of an unknown quantity. Even the factory are still on a learning curve and
I don't mean to suggest that's a bad thing.
It's my belief that since the advent of tri gear airplanes many of us have
forgotten how to fly taildraggers or worse, never learnt. I learnt on monowheel
taildraggers, with and without engines, then converted. 10 years of flying
canards have almost completly diluted my previous (apparent ) skills. A very
recent reaquaintance reiterated how easy it is. Set up approach speed, close
throttle at 400 feet or so and wait. After the Japanese kiss allow the speed to
bleed off and quietly lower the nose.
Can't do that with our Europa. On the other hand the last time I went into Tom
Lawton's strip with the Long EZ I got stuck for 6 weeks waiting for the wind to
change and the grass to dry.
IMHO it would be most unwise to first flight a Europa without something like 50
hours on type. Preferably not all on the same aircraft. Equally unwise to do it
on anything other than a grass billiard table 600 metres or more or tarmac.
Short grass is the most forgiving. Bumps can be a problem .
Part of the insurance problem is the high hull values that some owners are
setting. Not really surprising the insurers are getting nervous. Really the true
value of a decent Europa is nearer L35K than 50K+. There have been one or two
undercarriage mounts broken by very heavy landings, (prop too ). The one that I
saw had no other damage to the airframe although the prop flange was bent out of
limits. .002". It is even possible to go round after knocking an inch off the
tips of the prop. (G-YURO) This is a very tough little aeroplane.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Root Closeout Rib Layup???? |
ChuckPops(at)aol.com wrote:
> ribs, the manual states that the first two layers of bid should run about 2"
> beyond the metal bush. Do they intend that after laying up the rib itself,
> you turn the glass away from the rib/spar corner out about 7" along the spar
> stub, which would imply that you have to snip holes so that the cloth can
> pass around the bush?
We also have the newer issue of the manual and found the instructions
just as confusing. No problem, we rang Andy Draper at the factory and he
confirmed that the layup covers the bush by 2", cutting a 1.5" diameter
hole in the cloth will let the bush poke through.
The new manual doesn't seem to cover the modification that Dave
Bosomworth refers to - any comments?
Dave & Margaret Watson
#224 G-CUTY (Tri-gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List: Magellan GPS 2000 |
As a subscriber to the RV-List (not the kitfox or europa lists), I didn't
receive the original. Anyone on those who lists who wants to continue
corresponding, please also include the RV-list or my address in the To:
line. Thanks... now, on to what I actually have to say:
> >Just read your nice article in the October Comanche Flyer and I agree
> >with most of what you wrote. It seem less than economical to spend
> >two thousand dollars on a GPS when most of the same info can be obtained
> >on a much less expensive version. . . . . .
>
> The operative words here are "most of the same" to which I would
> add "most of the time."
>
> >the 2000 have adequate reception when being used "inside" the environs
> >of a Comanche, or whatever? It's been my experience that if a GPS
> >does not have an externally mounted antenna, acquisition of
> >the required number of satellites is difficult. I also understand
> >that an antenna kit is not available for the 2000, only the 4000,
> >and at a price of $139.99.
I have a Magellan GPS3000... I believe the 2000 is a cut-down version of
this, and can't have the external data, power, and antenna added. It also
has a few less internal features. My guess is that the GPS "engine" inside
all these models is the same.
I've used my 3000 in a plane (C172) on one trip (about 8 hours total),
running on battery and using the internal antenna. It was hopeless in the
rear seat, although if I put it in the luggage compartment it worked OK.
When I got to fly, I had it up front, held by my front-seat passenger.
Mostly it worked OK when held near the yoke, but if held up near the top of
the dash, it was fine all the time.
I've also used it in my car (gotta have your toys, y'know), mounted in a
bracket on top of the dash. It works fine there too.
> In no way am I suggesting that inexpensive hand-helds are a
> REPLACEMENT for the more expensive panel mounts or hand helds
> with external antennas.
I'm partly disagree. I think/hope that a *well-chosen* inexpensive handheld
(ie one which allows external antenna, power, and data connections such as
the GPS3000) can be a suitable replacement for a panel mount. I've lost the
URL for now, but there was a recent posting to the glass-panel mailing list
which gave details of how to build your own GPS antenna (several different
ways, in fact). Some time, I'll give that a try. Same site had PC moving map
software.
> The thrust of the article was to suggest
> that pilots NOT PUT OFF buying a GPS receiver because they
> cannot currently afford the one they want. I'll further suggest that
> a $200 hand-held can put the miracle of GPS navigation in IMMEDIATE
> reach of everyone while they save up the bucks for their
> "dream" receiver.
I'd suggest people buy the $250 model... then they may never need to buy the
"dream" receiver. Or a heap of alkaline batteries.
Frank.
--
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Root Closeout Rib Layup???? |
Dave,
In a message dated 03/10/1996 00:10:22, you write:
>We also have the newer issue of the manual and found the instructions
>just as confusing. No problem, we rang Andy Draper at the factory and he
>confirmed that the layup covers the bush by 2", cutting a 1.5" diameter
>hole in the cloth will let the bush poke through.
>The new manual doesn't seem to cover the modification that Dave
>Bosomworth refers to - any comments?
The mod came off a letter that was dated 24 August 95 and refered to a
loose bush on the spar of G-KITS. Builders were advised to inspect the
bushes, re-install any loose ones (though non have been reported on this
list) and:-
'Even if the rearmost bush on the starboard wing spar is not loose, layup a
patch of 2 plies bid over the the bush flange and onto the surrounding spar
to retain the bush. Cover with peel ply. Open up a hole through the
glassfibre after cure.'
This has obviously been incorporated into your newer instructions. But, if
you cut the glass around the bush, how will it be retained? As this stbd
rear bush is not slid into a socket, it doesnt matter about the thickness of
2 plies over the rear face. I drilled through the socket hole, and can still
sleep at night ;-)
chus, dave
kit67
also known as dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ellerington" <john_ellerington(at)uk.ibm.com> |
Anyone thinking about buying a portable GPS may find it worth their
while to look further than the traditional pilot's suppliers. In
particular, some Yacht chandlers seem to offer particularly good
bargains - the Pumpkin Marine advert in the current issue of 'Practical
Boat Owner' is listing Magellan 2000 sets at UKP 159.95 including a free
protective bag. This seems a much better deal than the UKP 200+ being
charged by some other vendors.
Happy landings...John.
***************************************************************
John Ellerington
SuperMIX Project team
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hunter <krhunter(at)pcug.org.au> |
| Subject: | Re: New Europa Aviation Web Pages |
Peter Thomas wrote:
>
> Europa Aviation now have their own web site.
>
> The URL is ........
>
> http://www.europa-aviation.co.uk/
>
Congratulations the wait was worth it - great pages.
Could not find any pricing detail though?
Ken Hunter
Canberra, Australia
Aircraft Syndication Software
|
----0---- http://www.pcug.org.au/~krhunter
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | D.Howard(at)kid0110.wins.icl.co.uk |
Thanks for those who replied to my last question concerning resin
pumps and safety equipment. Whilst doing research I've picked up
some other info concerning post curing which I'd like the
collectives opinion on.
Some helpful people at SP Systems suggested post curing needs to
be done within 2 weeks of laminating. I had the impression from he
manual that this was done as a batch job near the end of the
project. The guy also suggested post curing components several
times wasn't a problem - e.g. if you are only part way through the
wing within the two weeks, post cure it then complete the job when
you can.
As a side effect of the above, he suggested that when applying the
resin the min temp needed to be only 18C, and that if the temp
fell below this overnight (my real worry in the garage) it was no
big deal as the post cure would sort it out.
In summary - Post Curing is required and should be done within 2
weeks. Initial curing at lower temperatures than indicated is not
a major problem if post curing is done at the appropriate time.
Does this make sense to the people with more composite experience?
Thanks,
Dave Howard
(#309 - well I'll get the garage finished soon)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
> Some helpful people at SP Systems suggested post curing needs to
> be done within 2 weeks of laminating.
Not entirely true: post curing within 2 weeks adds up to 30% to the
properties, but leaving it longer will add 10%: the real benefit is to drive
off any solvents, moisture, etc, and stabilise the laminates for a higher
"in service" temperature.
The Europa was designed to meet its structural requirements with NO post cure.
Details, including a cheepo post curing oven in next months FLYER....
Miles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan.wilkinson" <aa4bwi(at)zen.sunderland.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Rowland & Wilma Carson wrote:
> >I lurked on the Europa list for several months and was struck by the
> >multitude of hints, tricks and minor mods. that builders needed to
> >resort to.
Same here ;-/
> >Finally, I've heard rumours that the Europa is substantially more
> >difficult to land than people have been led to believe, a typical
> >problem being broken out-riggers.
> >Alan Jackson
> >Tailored Information
> >http://www.datatext.co.uk/it
One move may be to take some instruction in one of the falke family of
motorgliders .These have a similar layout in all of the ones I have seen.
Also known as the venture , licence built by slingsby for the air
training corps. The rate seems to be around 45 - 50 pounds per hour and
you could do worse than check out their web site - point ya browser at
york gliding centre.
hope this is helpful , it would appeer that most builder/ lurker want the
original harrier - ish central gear setup .....
* my opinions are mine , all mine ;-)
Regards , Bryan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | scale Europa is still Big! |
As several of you know I have been talking about building a 40% scale
model of the Europa. Can't start on a 100% scale one for a year, so this
is the next best thing. Well, I just got the 3 view drawings back from
the Blueprint shop. They were able to take the .dxf cad file I got from
Graham Clark and make a set of working drawings for me. A seven foot
Europa fuselage sure looks mighty big unrolled on the floor of my office.
Will be doing a wet layup, ala Rutan, fuselage plug to use in making a
set of fuselage molds. Wing and tail will be hot wired foam same as the
full size plane. One of the reasons for making this model is to work out
vacuum bagging techniques for the flying surfaces. I like the wet layup
construction of the Europa flying surfaces but I think a lot of time can
be saved if some of the jigging and vacuum bagging techniques that are
used by companies like Boeing are utilized in the fabrication of the
flying surfaces. Boeing is using my quality control software in their
Composite Shop in Philadelphia, PA so I have had a chance to see how they
attack the problems.
Now that I have exposed this project to the scrutiny of the mail group I
will have to complete it or go retreat in disgrace ;-) Will periodically
let you know how it is progressing. If anyone has any ideas about
fabrication methods that they were afraid to try on their full size bird
let me know. This is many orders of magnitude cheaper.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | her builders Web site to look at! |
Another builders Web site to look at!
Yes, I've had a bash at creating my own web site which hopefully should follow
the remaining progress of my Europa project #152.
Check out the in-build photos, hints and tips etc - you might even get to find
out where Wichita is!
It can found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
Hope you like it ...
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
>>it would appeer that most builder/ lurker want the
original harrier - ish central gear setup .....<<
Yes, but it's more like a U2. The Harrier, like the B47/52, has a bicycle
undercarriage. Much easier to land but requires nosewheel steering.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | scale Europa is still Big! |
>> I like the wet layup construction of the Europa flying surfaces but I think
a
lot of time can be saved if some of the jigging and vacuum bagging techniques
that are used by companies like Boeing are utilized in the fabrication of the
flying surfaces.<<
You might look at the Berkut, which uses identical construction plus vac
bagging. You would have to make special arrangements to cope with the jig and
the tip and root but I'm sure it could be done. Would the gain be worth the
cost, though. The disposables in vac bagging can be expensive.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Lamb" <kerrylamb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another builders Web site to look at! |
Martin, good job with your web site. Looks like your Europa is coming
along very nicely, looking at your progress just makes me that much more
impatient to get started. The wife has given her approval, but I may have
to
move the family in another 4 - 6 weeks. This pesky business of earning a
living sure gets in the way of having fun!
Kerry
----------
> From: Martin J.Tuck <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Another builders Web site to look at!
> Date: Friday, October 04, 1996 7:48 PM
>
> Another builders Web site to look at!
>
> Yes, I've had a bash at creating my own web site which hopefully should
follow
> the remaining progress of my Europa project #152.
>
> Check out the in-build photos, hints and tips etc - you might even get to
find
> out where Wichita is!
>
> It can found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
>
> Hope you like it ...
>
> Regards
>
> Martin Tuck
> #152
> Wichita, Kansas
> USA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
>> On takeoff, the U2 ejects its takeoff outriggers to be retrieved by the
ground crew. Haven't seen one land yet - should be interesting.<<
I once saw a glider do a wheel up on a runway. It ground a flat on the bottom
and for once stayed upright at the end of the landing run. Ho hum. There were
those who couldn't help laughing.
Landing GK WHip is becoming more routine. That means I have more spare brain
power to watch what's going on. I have started to use Martin Stoner's technique.
65 kts throttle closed for the last 100 feet, instead of 60kts with a little
power. He's right, there is less to think about. Today I noticed that I touched
down with some rearward movement of the stick remaining. This means if I had hit
a bump I would probably have bounced.
I've never noticed it before, but I see now that under stress one's periferal
vision becomes almost blanked out. This was brought to my attention by an
article in the EAA Tech Councillor newsletter and coincidentally confirmed by a
Channel 4 Equinox programme about survival in disasters. Many survivors describe
the impression of looking down a telescope.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Rudder Tip Radius Matching |
Gidday,
Is it possible to make the trailing edge of the fin's tip radius such that
it will blend exactly into the rudders? I only have the tail and wing kit
manuals at this stage and am not privy to how they mate together. I would
really like to be able to place a straight edge 1/2 on the fin and1/2 on the
rudder, and transition it up over the tip of both, having both match!
Any tips! Please
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday all,
Can someone please tell me where I can find out more about the Goldwing
Strobes being fitted by some builders? I know of the Whelan product from my
Aircraft Spruce Catalogue, and also the Airworld Skyflash product. The
skyflash strobe flashes a double flash at 14 Joules output from one of a
pair of strobe heads, then follows this up with another double flash from
the other strobe head at 12 Joules output each. This is with a total power
requirement of 2 amps, giving 60-80 cycles per minute.The dimensions of the
power unit is 110mmX90mmX43mm, weighing 11 ounces(310 grams).
Each Strobe Head is an ellipse of 85 mm long by 31mm at the widest point.
(Really small!!)
Airworld Skyflash Dual Flash Single Head System 191.48 Pounds
Airworld Skyflash Single Flash Unit 118.29 Pounds
Can any of the electrical buffs tell me what candlepower this would produce
so I can make a better comparison with the Whelan. I imagine they are
nowhere near as powerful as you only needs 2 amps to run them. You only get
the performance that you pay for, I suppose.
What was it with these units, the Airworld, that was impressive to those
that saw them? Was it only their size? Were they dazzlingly bright such that
you would think them adaquate in low visibility without your traffic having
to be right on top of you to see them??
Thanks to the respondents about tackiness!!
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz (by way of Moira Millar <moira(at)avnet.co.uk>) |
Andy,
I was pondering the attachment of the trim tab to the stabilator last night
and was wondering why there was a gap at the
root between the trim tab and the stabilator when the trim tab is in the
lowered position. If only for aesthetic reasons and
to dispel much puzzlement for a first time builder I think it would be
better to bring the leading edge right to the root.
Can I suggest that Step 8 on Page 4-16 has the first line changed to....
"Remove the TP3 foam as far back as the triangular hole before the trim tab."
You can then procede with the trim tab excision. Layup the leading edge of
the trim tab right to the root.
Cut out the foam from the trim tab root
procede with the trim tab root layup.
Of course this does mean that the root closeout is going to be a real bitch
to accomplish!
As I have already passed this stage I think I will simply lay in a small
curve to match just to match the top of the leading
edge.
By the way, you can view my builders log at
http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html if you want to see how a first time
Europa builder approaches construction from day to day.
Regards
Tony
#272
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/07/96
Time: 09:31:14
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kerry Lamb" <kerrylamb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
Watching a U2 take off is interesting...I had wondered about the same thing
with the outriggers dropping off after takeoff. The answer is they have
wing tip skids - after the pilot has slowed down enough that he can no
longer balance the thing is will settle on one skid or the other.
Discovery Chanel had a good piece in their Wings program that I would
recommend if you can get it.
Kerry
----------
> From: Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: landing it :
/
> Date: Sunday, October 06, 1996 8:04 PM
>
> >> On takeoff, the U2 ejects its takeoff outriggers to be retrieved by
the
> ground crew. Haven't seen one land yet - should be interesting.<<
>
> I once saw a glider do a wheel up on a runway. It ground a flat on the
bottom
> and for once stayed upright at the end of the landing run. Ho hum. There
were
> those who couldn't help laughing.
>
> Landing GK WHip is becoming more routine. That means I have more spare
brain
> power to watch what's going on. I have started to use Martin Stoner's
technique.
> 65 kts throttle closed for the last 100 feet, instead of 60kts with a
little
> power. He's right, there is less to think about. Today I noticed that I
touched
> down with some rearward movement of the stick remaining. This means if I
had hit
> a bump I would probably have bounced.
>
> I've never noticed it before, but I see now that under stress one's
periferal
> vision becomes almost blanked out. This was brought to my attention by
an
> article in the EAA Tech Councillor newsletter and coincidentally
confirmed by a
> Channel 4 Equinox programme about survival in disasters. Many survivors
describe
> the impression of looking down a telescope.
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Suggestion for Andy |
Hmmmm,
Now how did this mail end up on the group? It wasn't meant to end up there. Must
have accidentally left a cc: in the
message.
You would think that a network specialist would know how to send an email by now!!
Anyway, if anyone finds it useful have it with my compliments :-)
Tony
> Andy,
>
> I was pondering the attachment of the trim tab to the stabilator last night
> and was wondering why there was a gap at the
> root between the trim tab and the stabilator when the trim tab is in the
> lowered position. If only for aesthetic reasons and
> to dispel much puzzlement for a first time builder I think it would be
> better to bring the leading edge right to the root.
>
> Can I suggest that Step 8 on Page 4-16 has the first line changed to....
>
> "Remove the TP3 foam as far back as the triangular hole before the trim tab."
>
>
> You can then procede with the trim tab excision. Layup the leading edge of
> the trim tab right to the root.
>
> Cut out the foam from the trim tab root
>
> procede with the trim tab root layup.
>
>
> Of course this does mean that the root closeout is going to be a real bitch
> to accomplish!
>
> As I have already passed this stage I think I will simply lay in a small
> curve to match just to match the top of the leading
> edge.
>
> By the way, you can view my builders log at
> http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/272index.html if you want to see how a first time
> Europa builder approaches construction from day to day.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
> #272
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Date: 10/07/96
> Time: 09:31:14
>
> This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
> NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/08/96
Time: 08:40:39
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ChuckPops(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
There has been some discussion as to whether a handheld GPS can be a primary,
or at least, a secondary navaid. I have been using a Garmin 45 (read marine)
GPS for about 2 years, paid about $275 for it, and am fully convinced that it
was the best $275 that I have ever spent! This model has no built-in
database, but every time that you land at, or pass over an airfield, you can
enter it into your specialized database by name with a keystroke! I have
built up about 100 waypoints over this time--every field that I have any
intention of considering for potential use.
I mount it near the top of the panel of both my Avid Flyer and my J-3 Kitten
using Velcro, such that it has a view of the sky through the windscreen. I
have never had any trouble with the unit acquiring the satellites quickly. I
have found no panel-mounted GPS which has a comparably user-friendly
interface, but again, I'm not yet acquainted with the latest and hottest
avionics!
The only problem that I have experienced with this unit was that initially,
it would shut itself off at random occasions. Then I would have to turn it
on again and let it acquire the satellites all over again. It turned out
that if the power is interrupted for even a millisecond, the unit will shut
itself off. The vibration on the panel was sufficient to cause such
occasional shutoffs, since I discovered that when I held it in my hand, it
would operate reliably. I used the internal AA batteries, which apparently
vibrated enough to cause intermittent contact. Stretching the battery
contact springs and adding conductive foam inside the springs has eliminated
the problem.
Happy flying!
Chuck US#36
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 ChuckPops(at)aol.com wrote:
[snip]
B
> it would shut itself off at random occasions. Then I would have to turn it
> on again and let it acquire the satellites all over again. It turned out
> that if the power is interrupted for even a millisecond, the unit will shut
> itself off. The vibration on the panel was sufficient to cause such
> occasional shutoffs, since I discovered that when I held it in my hand, it
> would operate reliably. I used the internal AA batteries, which apparently
> vibrated enough to cause intermittent contact. Stretching the battery
> contact springs and adding conductive foam inside the springs has eliminated
> the problem.
>
Something that we found out years ago, in flying radio control models
with AA batteries in the airborne pack, is that most AA batteries have a
false negative end cap. Take a pocket knife and run it around the end
cap on the negative end of the battery. The metal cap will slice off
revealing the actual metal of the "can" which is negative. Vibration can
cause connection problems between the end cap and the actual negative can
of the battery.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
In a message dated 05/10/96 07:36:19, 100421.2123(at)compuserve.com (Graham
Singleton) writes:
>Yes, but it's more like a U2.
Dear Graham
I was hoping that no one would make that comparrison, as the U2 is said to be
just about the awfulest landing flying machine ever. Accoring to the bit I
read you are not allowed to attempt a landing unless there is another U2
pilot in a chase car stationed on a parrallel runway to talk you in. Hope
it's wrong but I don't think so.????? Ron S No33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
I note from the latest Europa Flyer (nice work by the way, like the format) that
the Mid West engine is designed to eat oil
at a rate of 2.5% against fuel flow. It also uses an oil type I haven't heard of
before. Is this a specialised oil that is
endemic to the UK?
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/08/96
Time: 11:37:00
This message was sent by Z-Mail Pro - from NetManage
NetManage - delivers Standards Based IntraNet Solutions
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Tip Radius Matching |
>>Is it possible to make the trailing edge of the fin's tip radius such that
it will blend exactly into the rudders?<<
Yes. I made ours and Charlie Laverty's roughly circular in vertical profile. The
trouble comes when you have to make the rudder turn 30 degrees to the left.
Because the hinge line is sloping evrthing on the rudder to the left of the
hinge line rises as it swings to the left. This means either a gap at the top
of the fin, (so far I haven't seen anyone do this) or a recess in the top of the
rudder to clear the shroud on the fin, which then shows when the rudder is in
line.
It might be worth mounting a strobe close to the trailing edge of the fin and
using that to blend into the rudder.
I have made a premoulded spar for the fin/fuselage trailing edge which allows
the whole lot to be Clecoed together before finally floxing everything. It also
acts as a jig for the fin to fuselage joint. If anyone is interested please E
mail me or call. 01629 822 725.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
Ron says:>>I was hoping that no one would make that comparrison, as the U2 is
said to be just about the awfulest landing flying machine ever.<<
You may be right. OTH there are plenty of tricky taildraggers around. Do you
remember when the Luscombes started to arrive here a few years ago? There was a
quick succession of ground loops etc.
IMHO it's all down to training. I've managed to retrain myself (I could still
come unstuck, I'm sure) but I did have the benefit of Jon Tye and Martin Stoner
to talk to. Tri gear trained pilots will need either good extra training or lots
of reading, armchair flying and luck.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
Just a note for those contemplating use of the GARMIN 45 in Europa:
Some of the "random turnoffs" of the unit may have something to
do with its built-in 90-knot speed limit--an unassailable software patch
put in by GARMIN specifically to avoid the unit's use (read: sale) in the
aviation marketplace. Thus, it'll generally be OK in a J-3 Kitten or the
like (except with big tailwinds), but I'd hope any decent Europa would
put it past its limit in short order.
Actually, the receiver continues to track just fine; it's just
the display that freezes up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Turner <100113.2571(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
Don't to turn this into the U2 group but ....
Ron S. wrote
>> T.T.
Motoring with OzWin 2.10 (g3) to the bit I read you are not allowed to attempt
a
landing unless there is another U2 pilot in a chase car stationed on a parrallel
runway to talk you in. Hope it's wrong but I don't think so.????? <<
At an Alconbury airshow some years ago, the line-up of statics included a U2
with its 'driver', who was very chatty. Amongst other things, he claimed that on
his way to Cambridgeshire that morning, he'd shut off his engine over North
Carolina and coasted the rest of the way. So hopefully, Europa's share a
similarly long range and economical cruise.
Mind you, he didn't specify the altitude at the start of his transatlantic leg
.
T.T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Tom McCormack wrote
[snip]
>A Europa has good mpg figures - but
[snip]
> you can't use very short strips
>
>I fly a six seat piper spamcan - that can easily gets in / out of 500m
>strips
[snip]
Are you implying that a Europa can't operate off a 500m strip? I thought
that was the whole point of it ....
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Tom McCormack wrote
>A Europa has good mpg figures - but you can't use very short strips<<
Who says you can't. Jon Tye and I use a 400 meter grass strip with a 3 % slope.
With practice 300 meters would be enough The big wheel means that long grass is
much less of a problem. I guarantee we will get out when a spamcan would be
bogged down.
Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz |
wrote:
> >>Tom McCormack wrote
> >A Europa has good mpg figures - but you can't use very short strips<<
>
> Who says you can't. Jon Tye and I use a 400 meter grass strip with a 3 % slope.
> With practice 300 meters would be enough The big wheel means that long grass
is
> much less of a problem. I guarantee we will get out when a spamcan would be
> bogged down.
> Graham
> >
Has anyone worked out what the standard takeoff distance to clear a 50' obstacle
is for grass and seal?
As we know, the Europa adverts quote a takeoff and landing run in the 100 - 160
metre plus range, any shorter
and the Europa would be classed as a VTOL aircraft - mind you, almost achieved
that in a PA38 yesterday
with a 50 metre roll after landing (_very strong_ headwind and bumpy as hell!)
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/09/96
Time: 12:38:58 New Zealand Summer Time (UTC +13)
Kaon Technologies - Building Tomorrow's Networks
PO Box 9830
Newmarket
Auckland Ph +64 9 358 9124
New Zealand Fx +64 9 358 9127
Visit http://www.kaon.co.nz
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
>I am drawing up an electrical diagram, using the one in the instructions as
>a basis. From a high level perspective, what do builders feel about the
>Europa supplied diagram? It seems to be to be simple, understandable and
>technically all right (but I ain't no electrician).
The "wiring diagrams" supplied with Europa, Kitfox, Pulsar, et. als.
are barely worthy of the name. Take a look at the service manual
for a Beech, Piper or Cessna airplane and note the page per system
approach to documenting how the wires go into an airplane. Only
Mooney (bless their stubborn hearts) torment mechanics with single
sheet, wall sized drawings of the whole airplane.
>One debatable issue may be the running of a 12AWG wire across one side of
>the Avionics and 12v DC Bus circuit breakers. It seems a really good,
>simple and light weight solution. Unfortunately in these circumstances I
>believe Murphy's law must apply, saying it is flawed.
There are two main concerns for system development . . . mechanical and
elecrical. Elecrical issues go to circuit function, failure modes
analysis and parts count reduction. Mechanical issues deal with
attachement, support, double insulation, protection through firewalls,
interference with controls, etc. Many builders try to lump the two
tasks into one. I suggest that a page/per/system wirebook be developed
first to define equipment to be used, wire and fuse or breaker sizes,
connectors, splices, terminals, where to get grounded, etc.
When that's done, you can easily switch gears of thought and deal
with the mechanical issues as you bolt the hardware into the
airplane. If you've done a good job with the first task, the second
will be easier.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | no-wiennie talk . . . |
A piece of e-mail conversation I thought I would share:
-------------------------------------------------------
>More thoughts on reliability. I happen to like the dual-bus architecture
>but I want to play devil's advocate for a moment. Is the main-buss/essential
>-buss really an advantage? Would it not be possible to achieve the same
>thing by providing a bypass for the master contactor and just manually shut
>off the nonessential stuff?
Why add to pilot work-loads? And, would you want to rate the "bypass" system
so that it could carry full system loads? You'd have to assume that it may
be operated at some time before the pilot forgets to turn something off.
The MB/EB system is absolute. Figure out in advance what your essential
loads are and keep 'em small! Have at most two switches to throw. Make it
impossible for the EB alternate feed to backfeed the main bus (that's what
the diode is for).
>You would reduce your parts count and simplify the construction.
At the expense of making the pilot do systems analysis and checklist
driven procedures just when he SHOULD be concentrating on flying
the airplane.
>OK, one possible problem is a short on the main buss. . . . .
Pick any airplane, grab a toolbox and fabricate a short to the
main bus using only materials that currently exist and are in
close enough proximity to main bus or feed wiring to pose a
real threat . . . If you can find an airplane where this
is possible, it's been very badly designed. I've not found one
yet where I can meet the challenge.
>But aren't we protected by having *all* devices protected by switches
>and fuses? And what is to prevent a short from occurring on the
>essential buss?
Individual circuits ARE protected and one must assume that any
one may fall prey to a fault that takes that particular system
down. Essential busses should enjoy the same freedom from
extraneous faults to ground. The fuse-block bus structures
I favor are totally enclosed except for a feed-point stud
on the end which is easy to cover with a boot. . . .
>I was also thinking more about the polyswitch single-board
>switch-buss. Your points are well taken about mechanical
>integrity and security. I know that there is no built-in
>rigidity for the wiring but what about adding an outboard
>tie-bar to take up the mechanical load for the wiring bundle
>thus letting the terminals supply only electrical connections?
Can't visualize what you're describing . . . but it
can't be a lower parts count nor be any more vibration
resistant than fuse-blocks and switches.
>Also, having the switches and protection right at the bus
>reduces the number of wires by almost a factor of 2.
Perhaps, but this architecture demands that the protection
be right behind the switches and makes the switches hard
to change. It also uses electrical contacts of switches
for mechanical support of the etched circuit board . . .
a stress the switches were not designed for. It makes
switches hard to replace and uses premium, behind the panel
volumes to contain equipment that is better off under the
seat!
>I know you say that the avionics master is outmoded these days but
>the major reason people want them is convenience. I hate turning swtiches
>on and off. I want to turn on all the radios with their individual
>switches and then turn the whole shooting match on or off with a single
>switch.
How many radios do you plan to have? The well-stacked panel of
old is no more . . . A nav/com, xpnder and GPS about fills out
the requirments for 95% of the airplanes being built. The Beech
A36 I used to fly had LOTS of switches but most of the airplanes
I rent these days don't even get some of the radios turned on
for the flight . . .
>Heck, if it weren't for the potential problem of transients from the
>starter motor causing problems with the solid-state devices, I would
>just switch them with the master switch.
That's okay with me . . starters never did put out radio-killing
transients. Low voltage during cranking used to kill a radio or two
and over-voltage from alternators has killed a LOT of radios but
I've searched and searched and never found a starter circuit that
could develop transients that would hurt a properly designed radio.
There's lots of solid state stuff that gets tied to the bus with
NO means for shutting it off . . . audio amps, turn coordinators,
voltmeters, electric clocks, fuel flow measurement systems, air
data converters . . . yet the myth persists that a RADIO is somehow
a "spike magnet." Old pilot's tales die hard . . . . .
>The avionics master is a potential point of failure. A wire is
>much more reliable than any switch or breaker.
A wire with one diode in it isn't much less reliable . . that's what
I use between main bus and essential bus and it's backed up anyhow.
>OK, let's consider the possible problems of transients on the bus
>raising havoc with the avionics. How about MOVs for absorbing bus
>transients?
Right on . . . . . . let's design a transient free system instead
of guarding against transients that may or may not be there . . .
>What kinds of transients does a starter motor produce? How much energy
>are we talking here, i.e. voltage, current, and duration given that
>the battery is going to absorb a bunch of that?
Now you're talking like an engineer. If there's something to be
protected from, let's quantify it and either (1) protect against
it or (2) eliminate it.
>Most radios . . . .
No . . . ALL radios
>have some sort of input filtering usually consisting of a moderately-
>sized (10-100 uf) electrolytic cap. If I know the voltage changes
>and rise times I can figure out the inrush current for the radios.
The DO-160C spike test is EASILY passed with a good quality,
10uF capacitor across the line. . . .
>That is one area where I thought that Control Vision had a good idea:
>the avionics master was switched off when the starter was engaged. . . .
It's never a bad idea to have everything off that can be off before
engine cranking . . . it's simply good cockpit hygene.
>The cost is a relay (point of failure, I know). Thought: when I
>release the starter switch and the starter contactor opens, does
>the avionics relay close before the starter contactor opens?
>If so, my radios see the tail end of the transient(s) anyway.
Got no idea . . . it's a mute point anyhow. Before you install
any radio in an airplane, you should call the manufacturer and
ask them if they've tested to DO-160 for all bus voltage conditions.
If the answer is NO, then they've NOT DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. In the
case of battery powered hand-helds and cigar-lighter adapter cords,
they are under no obligation to consider DO-160 so some simple
pre-filtering and transient clamping is in order. However, if anyone
claims to be airplane panel-mount qualified and won't sign up
to DO-160 should not get the pleasure of your business. I've
been building products to that spec for over 25 years!!!! It
ain't hard.
>Oh well, just some mental ramblings. I enjoyed our conversation.
>It is a pleasure to talk with someone who thinks about how things
>really work.
Thank you . . . I enjoyed it too. If we're to avoid being
dragged under the protective arm of the FAA, all of us
had better spend more time learning about how things work.
The "experts" are no longer resident at BPC&M nor the FAA.
The real experts are working away in basements and garages
all over the world. Communication is the key to building
airplanes that are better in every way than anything which
can be purchased . . . long live the internet!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552ompuserve.com
http://aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
Just thought that you might like to know that Kath and I snook, with PP into
the strip on Sunday in the Ogar(its great, bit like a crown green bowling
green really but bigger). That means that you Europa types should be able to
get at least three landings and takeoffs in the length of the runway. I'd
settle for one tho and hope to see you there on Saturday Weather permitting
as they say. Keep well travel safetly Ron n' Kath S No 33.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | RNING-- W31 Circuit Breaker --WARNING-- |
On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Steven A Eberhart wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Tom Riley wrote:
>
> > I'm far from needing switches for my instrument panel
> > yet, but I have looked at some of the readily available
> > circuit breakers and have one concern about a popular
> > model made by Potter-Brumfield. If anyone could comment
> > on the following, it would be much appreciated.
> >
> > The P-B W31 series (thermal breaker with built-in toggle)
> > seems to be very susceptible to being fliped OFF by shock -
> > and it doesn't take much. Try it, take a W31 and set it to
> > the ON (up) position, then hold it upright in your right
> > hand with the toggle away from you and strike the palm of
> > your left hand. It doesn't take too much of a blow to flip
> > the switch to the OFF position.
> >
> > It would seem to me that a good bang in bad turbulence
> > could result in shutting off several such breakers --- not
> > fun. Does anyone have any experience with these breakers
> > or care to comment? Am I way off base here, or is this a
> > valid concern?
> >
>
> I designed the original test equipment used to test the P&B thermal
> circuit breakers. Just the electrical test, not impact or vibration. It
> has been thirteen years since I left the company but their engineering
> offices are just thirty minutes up the road. I will see if any old
> friends are still around and try to get a response to the impact
> question.
>
> Steve
>
I just got off the phone with an old friend that still works at P&B and
got the following information.
1. The W31 breakers are not now specified in reguards to shock
tripping. The old spec. used to be 15 to 25 G's. The low Amp. breakers
up to about 4 Amps were good for 15 G's, above 4 Amps were good for 25
G's. Rapping on your hand is not a valid test.
2. From date code 9550 to present should be returned to your supplier
for replacement!!!! There is a manufacturing defect that has, as of
today, not been corrected. When the breakers trip, they can NOT be
reset. Breakers made before date code 9550 should be OK.
Just passing along the information I was told by the now anonymous source.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 for Sale |
I have been asked by Simon Collins to post the following For Sale notice on
the Europa net.
Due to my upgrading to a Subaru engine, I now have a brand new Rotax 912
engine c/w slipper clutch and engine installation kit FOR SALE.
Price #8500.00(pounds sterling). This includes VAT and represents a saving of
approximately #3000 over the current new price.
All enquiries to Mike Thompson on (01732 8744500) - daytime. This is a UK
phone number.
Please do not address your enquiries to me (Carl Pattinson), unless you have
difficulty contacting the above.
Carl Pattinson.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
>>Has anyone worked out what the standard takeoff distance to clear a 50'
obstacle is for grass and seal?<<
What's seal, Tony. I think Pete Clarke did, so U roper should have the figures.
Had a couple more Antipodeans here last week. Two Singletons from Perth WA. Joan
says will you stay longer next time, she thinks you are very nice.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom McCormack <Tom(at)tmcc.demon.co.uk> |
No - I meant a Europa can't lift six adults out of 500 metres and then
fly 850 nm of solid IFR.
In message <v01540b00ae806f04341f@[193.130.251.91]>, Rowland & Wilma
Carson writes
>Tom McCormack wrote
>
>[snip]
>>A Europa has good mpg figures - but
>[snip]
>> you can't use very short strips
>>
>>I fly a six seat piper spamcan - that can easily gets in / out of 500m
>>strips
>[snip]
>
>Are you implying that a Europa can't operate off a 500m strip? I thought
>that was the whole point of it ....
>
>cheers
>
>Rowland
>
>
>... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>
>
>FLYER Magazine
>The Flyer List is supported by Aviators Network UK - info(at)avnet.co.uk
--
Tom McCormack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RNING-- W31 Circuit Breaker --WARNING-- |
>1. The W31 breakers are not now specified in reguards to shock
>tripping. The old spec. used to be 15 to 25 G's. The low Amp. breakers
>up to about 4 Amps were good for 15 G's, above 4 Amps were good for 25
>G's. Rapping on your hand is not a valid test.
>2. From date code 9550 to present should be returned to your supplier
>for replacement!!!! There is a manufacturing defect that has, as of
>today, not been corrected. When the breakers trip, they can NOT be
>reset. Breakers made before date code 9550 should be OK.
For what it's worth, circuit breaker switches have very little
practical use in an airplane . . . some builders are thinking
that it makes life simpler because it eliminates the need for
both breaker and switch . . . but keep in mind that breakers
are by definition fed by bus bars. Therefore, you now have
to build a bus bar on the left side just to handle switched
circuits and another bus bar just for breakers where the circuits
have no switches. This is one of the driving factors for
the Fuse Block/Switch Panel architecture we've been writing
about. Your bus bars are purchased already made. ALL circuits
leading from the fuse block are protected and require no special
treatment whether they go to a switch or to some other device
not requiring a switch . . . . I wish Aircraft Spruce and
others would get those breaker-switches out of their
catalog. Buyer beware . . . just because someone sells it
doesn't mean they even know if it's a good idea or not . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: >>Re: FLYER: MPG |
>>No - I meant a Europa can't lift six adults out of 500 metres and then
fly 850 nm of solid IFR.<<
True, but the IFR bit is well within its capabilities. It might well manage the
850 nm too. It does however fulfill its design objectives very well and doesn't
burn enormous amounts of money at maintenance time and enormous amounts of fuel.
Neither does it make so much noise that the airfield gets shut down by rabid
nimbies.
I much prefer to have a Europa and do what I want cheaply and efficiently and
maybe hire a spamcan once in blue moon when I need the extra seat or two. Try
comparing 6 litres per hour per seat at 110 kts.
BTW I haven't read your original remarks , in Flyer? so I trust I'm not
overeacting.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Evers <evers(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>Blue@carolina-chat.com wrote
>
>>Please read the attachment. Thanks, Robert
>>
>>
>> I design and make mini-beams for CB and Ham radios. These
>
>
>Robert - I think you should know you're wasting your time posting your ads
>to the Europa List. This list is for discussion of the Europa home-built
>aeroplane, and has no interest in CB or ham radios. Posting ads
>indiscriminately like this is a good way to get a lot of people mad at you
>very fast.
>
So why take up even more time & space distributing the whole lot again?
Besides some Europa builders are also Radio Amateurs and may well be interested.
This enterprising chap is obviously an antenna expert and could well be able
to come up with some good designs for very efficient light weight aerials
for composite construction aircraft. E.g. for GPS and HF as well as the
obvious HF.
The aircraft band is very wide and a thin wire has a narrow bandwidth; a
large diameter tube gives a much wider bandwidth. Perhaps the tailplane
pivot tube could be tuned and loaded-up? (The electrical characteristic of
the steel is probably not good but it has a really useful diameter.)
Copper tape or braid should be much better than a thin wire for the VHF
bandwidth required and this could be accommodated in the fin or applied to
the inside of the rear part of the fuselage. I feel that the leading edge
of the fin would give a better angular position than the trailing edge for
downward emmission (albeit biased to the ground below & behind.
Btw for the record I am GM0 BVK
That's all for now from Eric Evers
________________________________________________________________________________
Eric Evers wrote:
>
snip.........
> So why take up even more time & space distributing the whole lot again?
>
> Besides some Europa builders are also Radio Amateurs and may well be interested.
> This enterprising chap is obviously an antenna expert and could well be able
> to come up with some good designs for very efficient light weight aerials
> for composite construction aircraft. E.g. for GPS and HF as well as the
> obvious HF.
>
> Btw for the record I am GM0 BVK
> That's all for now from Eric Evers
Agreed, Eric - and I emailed the originator direct saying much the
same......................
And, also BTW, I am 9Y4TAM...............
CUL es 73,
Martin
--
Martin W. Berner,
26 Mayfield Road, Valsayn Park, Trinidad, The West Indies
Live Long and Prosper !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul & Liz Atkinson <100016.3347(at)compuserve.com> |
I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an ASI,
Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
instruments? The reason for asking is that I have come across a neat way of
saving weight and space by using a "Micro Encoder" made by Rocky Mountain
Instruments. This combines an ASI, Altimeter, VSI and atlitude encoder in one.
If anyone has any experience with this or the RMI Monitor I would be grateful to
hear your views.
Thanks,
Paul Atkinson 237
E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 11-Oct-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: >>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flighInstruments |
>>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an ASI,
Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
instruments?<<
Can't answer that question, however, FWIW Since the most valuable instrument is
an angle of attack meter, I would have thought what you suggest would be OK. Big
advantage of the RMI device is that it gives you density altitude, and that can
be important, if only to remind you not to expect a 5 second lift off on a hot
day in the Alps. Or the Rockies. Trouble with the ASI as a flight instrument, it
can only tell you that you stalled 5 or 10 seconds ago, not that you are about
to. I suspect it's possible to hook up an ASI to read AoA by connecting the
pitot line to static and the static to a tapping on the leading edge of the
wing. Sorry if I've bored you all before with this.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Hughes <susan(at)magick.net> |
>>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an ASI,
Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
instruments?<<
Can't answer that question, however, FWIW Since the most valuable instrument is
an angle of attack meter, I would have thought what you suggest would be OK. Big
advantage of the RMI device is that it gives you density altitude, and that can
be important, if only to remind you not to expect a 5 second lift off on a hot
day in the Alps. Or the Rockies. Trouble with the ASI as a flight instrument, it
can only tell you that you stalled 5 or 10 seconds ago, not that you are about
to. I suspect it's possible to hook up an ASI to read AoA by connecting the
pitot line to static and the static to a tapping on the leading edge of the
wing. Sorry if I've bored you all before with this.
Graham
>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an ASI,
>Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
>instruments? The reason for asking is that I have come across a neat way of
>saving weight and space by using a "Micro Encoder" made by Rocky Mountain
>Instruments. This combines an ASI, Altimeter, VSI and atlitude encoder in one.
>If anyone has any experience with this or the RMI Monitor I would be
grateful to
>hear your views.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul Atkinson 237
>
>
> E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 11-Oct-1996
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Hughes <susan(at)magick.net> |
>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an ASI,
>Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
>instruments? The reason for asking is that I have come across a neat way of
>saving weight and space by using a "Micro Encoder" made by Rocky Mountain
>Instruments. This combines an ASI, Altimeter, VSI and atlitude encoder in one.
>If anyone has any experience with this or the RMI Monitor I would be
grateful to
>hear your views.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul Atkinson 237
>
>
> E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 11-Oct-1996
>
>do not email us any longer we really do not care to be a part of the Europa
scene. We have tried all avenues to terminate the email - to no avail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Hughes <susan(at)magick.net> |
| Subject: | Re: >>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for |
flighInstruments
>>>I believe that the minimun legal requirement for flight instruments is an
ASI,
>Altimeter, and compass. Does anyone know if these have to be 3 separate
>instruments?<<
>
>Can't answer that question, however, FWIW Since the most valuable instrument is
>an angle of attack meter, I would have thought what you suggest would be
OK. Big
>advantage of the RMI device is that it gives you density altitude, and that can
>be important, if only to remind you not to expect a 5 second lift off on a hot
>day in the Alps. Or the Rockies. Trouble with the ASI as a flight
instrument, it
>can only tell you that you stalled 5 or 10 seconds ago, not that you are about
>to. I suspect it's possible to hook up an ASI to read AoA by connecting the
>pitot line to static and the static to a tapping on the leading edge of the
>wing. Sorry if I've bored you all before with this.
>Graham
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Hughes <susan(at)magick.net> |
>>Blue@carolina-chat.com wrote
>>
>>>Please read the attachment. Thanks, Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> I design and make mini-beams for CB and Ham radios. These
>>
>>
>>Robert - I think you should know you're wasting your time posting your ads
>>to the Europa List. This list is for discussion of the Europa home-built
>>aeroplane, and has no interest in CB or ham radios. Posting ads
>>indiscriminately like this is a good way to get a lot of people mad at you
>>very fast.
>>
>So why take up even more time & space distributing the whole lot again?
>
>Besides some Europa builders are also Radio Amateurs and may well be
interested.
>This enterprising chap is obviously an antenna expert and could well be able
>to come up with some good designs for very efficient light weight aerials
>for composite construction aircraft. E.g. for GPS and HF as well as the
>obvious HF.
>The aircraft band is very wide and a thin wire has a narrow bandwidth; a
>large diameter tube gives a much wider bandwidth. Perhaps the tailplane
>pivot tube could be tuned and loaded-up? (The electrical characteristic of
>the steel is probably not good but it has a really useful diameter.)
>Copper tape or braid should be much better than a thin wire for the VHF
>bandwidth required and this could be accommodated in the fin or applied to
>the inside of the rear part of the fuselage. I feel that the leading edge
>of the fin would give a better angular position than the trailing edge for
>downward emmission (albeit biased to the ground below & behind.
>
> Btw for the record I am GM0 BVK
>That's all for now from Eric Evers
>
>Eric Evers wrote:
>>
>
>snip.........
>
>> So why take up even more time & space distributing the whole lot again?
To accomodate fat people.
>>
>> Besides some Europa builders are also Radio Amateurs and may well be
interested.
>> This enterprising chap is obviously an antenna expert and could well be able
>> to come up with some good designs for very efficient light weight aerials
>> for composite construction aircraft. E.g. for GPS and HF as well as the
>> obvious HF.
>>
>> Btw for the record I am GM0 BVK
>> That's all for now from Eric Evers
>
>Agreed, Eric - and I emailed the originator direct saying much the
>same......................
>
> And, also BTW, I am 9Y4TAM...............
>
>CUL es 73,
>
>
>Martin
>
>
>--
> Martin W. Berner,
> 26 Mayfield Road, Valsayn Park, Trinidad, The West Indies
>
> Live Long and Prosper !
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | enage Met Briefings |
Did anybody get to Chavenage ?
I was not impressed with Met Briefing facility. I tried Martin's home and
mobile numbers as published, only to find an answerphone message on each one
- and no mention of the met. If the mobile number is set to divert-on-busy
to the voice messaging system, you do have to interrogate it and call people
back - I sat for three hours at Cranfield waiting for a response (among
other things).
-- Colin Wray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul & Liz Atkinson <100016.3347(at)compuserve.com> |
Graham Singleton wrote
>> the most valuable instrument is
an angle of attack meter <<
I agree, I last saw one 16 years ago and found it to be the best thing since
sliced bread. I cant understand why they are seen so rarely. Anyone know where
to get one?
Paul Atkinson 237
E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 12-Oct-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chavenage Met Briefings |
>Did anybody get to Chavenage ?
yes
>I was not impressed with Met Briefing facility. I tried Martin's home and
>mobile numbers as published, only to find an answerphone message on each one
>- and no mention of the met.I sat for three hours at Cranfield waiting for a
response >(among other things).-- Colin Wray
If you have got this far with internet then you would have called up Tom
dawes-Gamble's met site, or Metfax, or airmet, or CFO at Bracknell, or
Lyneham Tower and requested a selection of metars/tafs on route. eg Luton,
Brize and lyneham, which is only about 10 miles away. I flew in from Popham
in my group's C152. Strong crosswind, but there were half a dozen planes
there by 3pm. In the note i got from Trevor Jackson there was no mention of a
met briefing facility. Martin is not a met observer and has no anemometer:
would you fly in on his word, or your own judgement based on the metars and
tafs adjacent to the field ?
dave,
also known as dbosomworth(at)meto.gov.uk
ps now you know what the 'meto' stands for...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
Interesting too is whether any approval requirements apply to these
minima. e.g. Would a car or yacht type compass do ? These also give an
attitude reference for negligible cost ! BTW I hear Rocky Mtn. will be
bringing out a digital compass sensor input for the Encoder early next
year. We'll get it all on the glass display yet.
Gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
Anybody had any thoughts on these. Weight must be a consideration, but
the lightest seem to be dry powder units at about 0.6kg. However I
believe it would be a little unwise to set one of these off in a
confined space!! The alternative is I suppose CO2, but the only ones I
have seen are rather heavy and bulky - all to do with getting enough gas
into a container to do the job perhaps - I think we are talking about
2kg here. Do we really need one or would one be of any use anyway is
perhaps worth addressing.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul & Liz Atkinson <100016.3347(at)compuserve.com> |
Graham Clark wrote:-
Would a car or yacht type compass do ? These also give an
attitude reference for negligible cost !
I dont know but I like the idea of using them as a cheap A/H. How do they
perform when inverted? :-).
If RMI do as they plan, my instument panel could consist of the Encoder and and
a Skymap. What shall I do with the rest of the space?
Paul Atkinson 237
E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 13-Oct-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | anel & Instrument Count |
>
> I dont know but I like the idea of using them as a cheap A/H. How do they
> perform when inverted? :-).
Oh yes, and what happens that one time that you do stray into cloud? Of course
we all know that VFR
pilots _never_ get caught out like that but then again, why do you spend so much
time flying instruments
to get your PPL if they don't expect you to need it one day. Sure, you can fly
minimal instrument with a
turn and slip but if I got caught out I really would like the have an AH in front
of me.
> If RMI do as they plan, my instument panel could consist of the Encoder and and
> a Skymap. What shall I do with the rest of the space?
>
Simple, get yourself the RMI engine management system as well!
Seriously though...
When you plan your panel do this.... imagine that you are flying over cloud at
4500 feet, have lost all power (mechanical
and electrical) and have to make an emergency landing over an area that you know
the height of (hopefully without meeting
granite clouds on the way down). What instruments do you need in front of you in
order to make a safe and effective landing?
The choice of instruments becomes very simple when you consider a worst case scenario
doesn't it. I would consider Compass,
AH and ASI as my must have instruments followed by VSI and turn and slip as desirables
- funny, looks just like a
conventional panel. Maybe those guys in the thirties who designed the basic panel
layout actually knew something about
flying VFR. :-)
Tony
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/14/96
Time: 08:29:38 New Zealand Summer Time (UTC +13)
Kaon Technologies - Building Tomorrow's Networks
PO Box 9830
Newmarket
Auckland Ph +64 9 358 9124
New Zealand Fx +64 9 358 9127
Visit http://www.kaon.co.nz
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
In a message dated 04/10/96 14:31:04, aa4bwi(at)zen.sunderland.ac.uk
(bryan.wilkinson) writes:
<<
One move may be to take some instruction in one of the falke family of
motorgliders .These have a similar layout in all of the ones I have seen.
Also known as the venture , licence built by slingsby for the air
training corps. The rate seems to be around 45 - 50 pounds per hour and
you could do worse than check out their web site - point ya browser at
york gliding centre. >>
If that is too far north you might like to give Tom Eagles a call at Hinton
in the Hedges 01295 812775 He has similar planes at similar rates or Ray
Brownrigg at Enstone Sport flying on 01608 677208 has a bigger more luxurious
single wheeler, a Vivat that will serve a similar purpose. I fly a similar
beast, an Ogar with a single wheel and a pusher prop but you fly it lying
down which takes a bit of getting used to it should be at Chavenage weather
permitting where I hope to pass it off to Ivan as my much modified Europa.
Ron S. No 33
PS Help! I have a new Sportster 33.6kb modem that works fine on BBS,s but
still takes an age to download anything from Avnet via AOL can anyone with
any comments E mail me off the Europa group please Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
I've used the micro encoder quite a bit, most recently on a couple of
long x/c flights in Burt Rutan's "Boomerang."
It's a terrific instrument, and I've always thought very well of
RMI's products. HOWEVER, I certainly don't want to depend on something
electrically powered for primary indication (a sentiment echoed in RMI's
literature). Moreover, while the digital display of both airspeed and
altitude are very precise, they lack the "interpret subliminally at a
glance out of your peripheral vision" capability of our conventional
"steam gauges." Note that all the fancy electronic instrumentation
systems in jets, etc., use their computer capability to draw pictures of
analog scales!
Europa...but I'll have conventional ASI and altimeter as well.
Peter Lert, A037
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
On 13 Oct 1996, Paul & Liz Atkinson wrote:
> Graham Clark wrote:-
> Would a car or yacht type compass do ? These also give an
> attitude reference for negligible cost !
>
>
> I dont know but I like the idea of using them as a cheap A/H. How do they
> perform when inverted? :-).
> If RMI do as they plan, my instument panel could consist of the Encoder and and
> a Skymap. What shall I do with the rest of the space?
>
> Paul Atkinson 237
>
>
> E-mail from: Paul & Liz Atkinson, 13-Oct-1996
>
>
Hello, all--please note that a mag compass will _not_ serve in
any way as "a cheap a/h." They're kept level by their own weight
suspended from the bearing pivot--i.e. in a turn they'll try to tilt to
what they think is the local vertical, not the true one. In fact, in a
properly coordinated turn, apart from some minor magnetic effects, they
should read "wings level" with respect to bank.
That having been said, their _is_ one particular mag compass that
_will_ provide some rudimentary attitude indication. It's Swiss and made
by the Bohli company, and uses an extremely light magnetic element (the
indicator is a red pith ball mounted on the end of a carbon whisker),
gimballed in three dimensions. It's tricky to use, but once you have
learned the technique it's good enough to have been banned in
international gliding competitions (since it allowed illegal cloud
flying). It's also expensive and quite bulky. Try some of the gliding
types at Dunstable or (Sp)Lasham (depending on season) for more info.
Peter Lert, A037
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
==== excerpts from a conversation I've been having with a fellow whos rear
alternator on his 337 is "jumpy" . . . .
FROM: Robert L. Nuckolls, III, 72770.552
DATE: 10/12/96 1:11 AM
Re: Your 337 Alernator Problem
Paul,
It's been my experience that voltage instabilities of the type you describe sort
of "grow" over time . . . the condition which precipitates the problem is a
combination of little things which make it difficult and frustrating to fix.
Replacement of any one item isn't enough to calm it down. Further, it's seldom
wrapped around the failure or degradation of things like alternators and
regulators (which you've already discovered on your airplane).
A voltage regulator is a servo system . . . it senses bus voltage and adjusts
field voltage to the alternator in an attempt to keep the bus voltage constant
in spite of load, temperatures and engine rpm. A servo system is "closed loop."
For example, suppose you're leaning over a balcony rail with a golf ball hung by
a string and attempting to drop the ball in a glass 10 feet below. Your sensor
is sight, the reaction is motor output from you arm, the result (if the loop is
tightly closed) is a successful caging of the ball in the glass.
Now, lets replace the string with a long rubber band. Further, let us add a 10
knot breeze. Now, the feedback loop is not so tightly closed; hitting the
target is more a matter of chance than design. In your airplane, the voltage
sensed by the regulator has become contaminated with tiny pieces of "rubber
band" in the form of increased resistance at each electrical connection. For
example, every time a wire goes through a connector, three new joints are added
to the wire. 20+ years ago, the joints were pristine and tight, now . . . well
. . . you get the picture. It's sort of an "electrical fungus" that puts
enough degradation in each of lots of joints to add up to too much "rubber band"
for the voltage regulator to work properly.
This is one of the reasons I lean pretty hard on my homebuilders to keep the
parts count down and in particular, minimize the number of joints in wires.
Particularly high current paths and critical control paths - like sense leads to
alternator regulators. An electrical joint count for the airplanes I was
working on at Cessna back in the 60s shows something on the order of 24 joints
in the voltage regulator sense pathway only 8 of which are contained inside ov
relays and regulators. Replacing either regulator or ov relay gets you 4 new
joints out of 24. A visual inspection or even electrical performance testing
(milliohmeter) of any one joint may not show anything of interest but add up 20
years of degradation of ALL the joints and we'll find that the "rubber band"
has become too long for adequate servo control of bus voltage to take place.
I lean toward this conclusion with your airplane because your already tried the
obvious (1) alternator replacement and (2) regulator replacement. Your concerns
about the diodes becoming "leaky" are not a factor here. Silicon semiconductors
are quite stable with age and in this case, they're not part of the voltage
sense path for your rear regulator.
Try this experiment. Make temporary mounting of virtually any 28 volt
alternator regulator under the rear cowl. Attach the "bus" terminal of the
regulator to the alternator's "B" terminal via a 5 amp inline fuseholder.
Attach the "field" terminal of the regulator to the "field" terminal of the
alternator. Make sure the case of the regulator is grounded and mechanically
secure. Disconnect the existing field wire from the alternator and tie it back.
Now, you have a very simple regulator system installed that has an absolute
minimum of joints in the sense wiring. You won't be able to control the thing
from the cockpit so it will come on line as soon as you fire up the rear engine.
I think you will find that the rear system is stable and totally free of the
problems you've been fighting.
It's experience with these kinds of situations that have driven modern regulator
designs and system architectures that I recommend for my home-builder clients.
The solution for your airplane isn't simple because you're saddled with an
obligation to maintain configuration control on a certified system with
designed-in problems! Consider replacing ALL joints (the existing wires are
okay . . . wire doesn't age . . just it's connections) between the bus and the
rear alternator regulator (might as well do both front and rear while you're at
it).
This means circuit breakers, alternator field switches, all of the AMP
mate-n-lock connectors (push the pins out before you cut them off . . . the wire
will be longer), terminals, etc. Short of getting and STC or OTFA on a modern
system, you'll have to cut out all the little "rubber bands" that are adding up
to an unmanageable situation for your regulator. Make sure that the regulators
are getting good electrical connection to ground . . . if they depend on case
connections as opposed to actual ground wires, clean the metal under the
regulator and on the regulator base where it touches the airplane. Curing a
problem like this is more like a spring cleaning than an identification and
replacement of a single offending component.
I wish there were a simpler answer but short of fixing the design, this is the
only way I know . . .
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Ellerington" <john_ellerington(at)uk.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uropa Mail:Instruments |
Gemin wrote 'would a cheap car or yacht compass do - they also have
attitude indication...'
Unfortunately, what applies to a vehicle moving in (more or less) 2
dimensions doesn't apply to one moving in 3. In particular, an instrument
that relies on gravity to give attitude information MUSTN'T be used in
an aircraft (that's why we use gyros). Consider this - an aircraft flown
in balance can be looped with a glass of water on the panel not spilling
a drop! And this is the reason why instruments are needed for flying in
bad visibility - what you feel subjectively doesn't relate to what the
aircraft is actually doing.
Happy landings!...John.
***************************************************************
John Ellerington
SuperMIX Project team
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dejan Petrovic <dejan(at)ban.junis.ni.ac.yu> |
Dear Ser!
Please send me catalog fishing(rods,rels...)and some equipment for
fishing.
my adress:
Dejan Petrovic
Krivi Vir 3/3
18000 Nis
Yugoslavia
Thank you in advance!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lancer <johmo(at)postoffice.ptd.net> |
Hi how is everyone today? Does anyone know any ISP in London offer
32bits winsock support? I heard there is none ... is that true?
--
Regards,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.Verbeek" <R.M.Verbeek(at)Textinfo.nl> |
Hello,
who can give me more technical information about a rotax kart engine
1992.
Rene Verbeek
The Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skypilot <skypilot(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: rotax kart engine |
R.Verbeek wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> who can give me more technical information about a rotax kart engine
> 1992.
>
> Rene Verbeek
> The Netherlands
Try this :http://members.aol.com/TaleWheel/roan1.htm
Forget the kart, get a europa instead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skypilot <skypilot(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 32bit winsock |
John Lancer wrote:
>
> Hi how is everyone today? Does anyone know any ISP in London offer
> 32bits winsock support? I heard there is none ... is that true?
> --
>
> Regards,
> John
No, but I know where to get a good kit aircraft though......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | skypilot <skypilot(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 32bit winsock |
John Lancer wrote:
>
> Hi how is everyone today? Does anyone know any ISP in London offer
> 32bits winsock support? I heard there is none ... is that true?
> --
>
> Regards,
> John
No, but I know where to get a good kit aircraft though......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan.wilkinson" <aa4bwi(at)zen.sunderland.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
On 4 Oct 1996, Graham Singleton wrote:
> >>it would appeer that most builder/ lurker want the
> original harrier - ish central gear setup .....<<
>
> Yes, but it's more like a U2.* The Harrier, like the B47/52, has a bicycle
> undercarriage. Much easier to land but requires nosewheel steering.
> Graham
*Talikng of which , the U2 aka the TR - 2 and now the U2-R programme did
use dual glider flights to accustom square jawed spook pilots to the
floaty landing charecteristics..... Scuse topic drift,
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan.wilkinson" <aa4bwi(at)zen.sunderland.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 08:56:25 -0700
From: Paul Lamar <paul-lamar-la(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: more europa stuff (fwd)
I saw a Europa here in SoCal at the Compton Air Fare. I was impressed.
Do you have any with a Cont. O-200 in them? Klaus is getting 140 HP out
of the O-200 for only 200 pounds of weight. That would be my engine of
choice.
Paul Lamar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Carroll <scott(at)millennianet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 08:56:25 -0700
From: Paul Lamar <paul-lamar-la(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: more europa stuff (fwd)
>
>I saw a Europa here in SoCal at the Compton Air Fare. I was impressed.
>Do you have any with a Cont. O-200 in them? Klaus is getting 140 HP out
>of the O-200 for only 200 pounds of weight. That would be my engine of
>choice.
>
>Paul Lamar
>
>
I am in San Diego, CA, USA, and would like to see a Europa up-close. Do
you know where the Europa from the air fare is based so that I might get to
see it??
Also, converted Mazda rotary engines are smoothly and reliably producing
from 150 hp to 200 hp for experimental aircraft applications. They are much
less expensive to aquire and maintain than Lyc. or Cont. engines !! Perhaps
Klaus will design a fire wall forward kit for this type of application???
Best regards,
Scott...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
> One move may be to take some instruction in one of the falke family of
> motorgliders .These have a similar layout in all of the ones I have seen.
> Also known as the venture , licence built by slingsby for the air
> training corps. The rate seems to be around 45 - 50 pounds per hour and
> you could do worse than check out their web site - point ya browser at
> york gliding centre. >>
The Europa seems to have two problems, most evident just before take-off and
just after touchdown. Firstly, a slight increase in angle of attack will
cause it to become airborne. Secondly, without the tailwheel firmly on the
ground, it is difficult to hold straight in a cross wind. An uneven surface
compounds these problems. Independent flap control is required - Walter
Binder manages much better with his version. The Falkes do not suffer from
these problems, so would be of limited assistance training wise.
-- Colin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Wray <colin(at)greench.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
>I saw a Europa here in SoCal at the Compton Air Fare. I was impressed.
>Do you have any with a Cont. O-200 in them? Klaus is getting 140 HP out
>of the O-200 for only 200 pounds of weight. That would be my engine of
>choice.
>
>Paul Lamar
>
For those of you who do not read the rec.aviation.homebuilt usenet group,
Paul is the world exponent on NOT using auto engines in aeroplanes. He works
in a computer company, races dragsters as a hobby, flies a Cessna 180 (?)
and is building something. If you propose anything less than a Lycoming or
Continental you get a stream of abuse.
-- Colin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
Eric Evers wrote
>>Blue@carolina-chat.com wrote
>>> I design and make mini-beams for CB and Ham radios. These
>>Robert - I think you should know you're wasting your time
>So why take up even more time & space distributing the whole lot again?
Sorry folks - I had meant that to be a private reply to the sender alone -
I hit "send" before I realised I hadn't re-patched the address. I did post
a brief apology immediately to the list, but that seems to have got lost in
cyberspace. I also resent my message as private mail to the author.
I do try to practice the principle "praise in public, criticise in private"
but my fingers sometimes outpace my brain. I realise now too that he may
have something useful to offer here.
Sorry!
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Christoph Both" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
| Subject: | est AE-100 engine information requested |
Dear builders:
I am looking for some more detailed information regarding the Midwest
AE-100 rotary engine.
Noise level compared with ROTAX 912
Vibration level compared with R'912
Oild consumption/management
RPM vs torque
Has someone flown G-KITS with the new engine?
Drop me a note to the Canadian Shield....
Christoph Both #223, Halifax, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Susan Hughes <susan(at)magick.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Midwest AE-100 engine information requested |
>Dear builders:
>
>I am looking for some more detailed information regarding the Midwest
>AE-100 rotary engine.
>
>Noise level compared with ROTAX 912
>Vibration level compared with R'912
>Oild consumption/management
>RPM vs torque
>Has someone flown G-KITS with the new engine?
>
>Drop me a note to the Canadian Shield....
>
>Christoph Both #223, Halifax, Canada
>>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBETAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
UNSUBSCRIBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
I am a pilot for Air New Zealand flying into Heathrow, London regularly.
Most of our duties are 'one nighters' in London before returning to LA
the next day. However, at last, I have a long stop over and intend to
drive up to Kirbymoorside to see the Europa Aviation people and hopefully
fly the 'bird'. My kit (#292) is presently at sea bound for Lyttleton,
South Island, NZ, the 6th Kitset for NZ. Anyway, as I haven't started
building yet I would be very interested and appreciate very much the
opportunity in viewing progress with any builders who might be on track
from London- Kirbymoorside-London with any slight deviation. I will be
driving up on Tuesday 29th and back the next day in the evening.Just an
'off chance' I know. Please email the above address if you can spare the
time.
Many thanks for those responsible for setting up this communication
network.
Cheers,
Tim Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan.wilkinson" <aa4bwi(at)zen.sunderland.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid West Rotary |
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz wrote:
> I note from the latest Europa Flyer (nice work by the way, like the format) that
the Mid West engine is designed to eat oil
> at a rate of 2.5% against fuel flow. It also uses an oil type I haven't heard
of before. Is this a specialised oil that is
> endemic to the UK?
The midwest engine has a designated and pricey fully synthetic oil ,
whereas the motorbike and drone engine use a monograde diesel engine oil,
the stuff that goes in a diesel car. Both are total loss, without the oil
recovery feature of the aircraft engine IIRC.
Regards, happy flying & building ,
Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re:Europa Mail:Instruments |
I was not recommending it, merely observing that if you are not making
manoevres but merely making small corrections to maintain stable flight a
fluid does know where up is, or at least was. The "was" is the nub of the
matter if you do start manoevreing. There was a large research effort way
back on suspended mass systems for attitude reference. They were not
pursued eventually against emerging gyro technology mainly because of the
computing required (analogue only available in those days) to correct for
the acceleration effects in the general case. It might be time for such
systems to be revisited now that we have relatively cheap, accurate, and
small, absolute angular encoders with digital readout along with vastly
improved microcomputing.
gemin (ex Ferranti Inertial Systems Division !)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: landing it : |
/
>>The Europa seems to have two problems, most evident just before take-off and
just after touchdown.<<
Colin Wray's assessment is reasonably accurate. Certainly the Falke won't teach
you much, except the propensity for PIOs caused by the unbalanced elevator.
My problem is with the pitch up/pitch down as you leave/reenter ground effect.
Take off is relatively easy to cope with, you need to learn to hold the
aeroplane down after an early lift off until speed builds up. Trickiest is a go
round. Landing is a bit more difficult, if/when you round out too high the nose
will suddenly drop as you enter the depths of ground effect. This can be helped
by either landing with a trickle of power or as Martin describes an extra 5 kts
and no power. Then just keep on holding off, and if required pull back smartly
when the sudden sink occurs. My belief is that this sudden increase in rate of
sink is caused by the airflow over the tailplane suddenly being deflected more
horizontal by the ground. In normal flight it is in the downwash from the wing/
flap.
It's not that difficult to achieve perfect landings. Just difficult to remember
how you did it and avoid reverting to previous habits.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
>>Klaus is getting 140 HP out of the O-200 for only 200 pounds of weight. That
would be my engine of choice.<<
It wouldn't be mine. The 912 gives rather more HP per lb. Klaus has done an
amazing job, including having special pistons cast and his own ignition system.
He also made his own streamlined carbon fibre oil sump. To do the same you would
need expertise equal to Klaus, which not many of us have.
The big problem is weight. The airplane just isn't quite big enough to take a
200 lb engine. Even the Subaru is a bit too heavy IMHO. You would really need to
move the wing forward a bit or add forward sweep to get the CG back where it
belongs. Then add a prop extension to get the prop out front in clean air etc
etc.
A supercharged direct drive Subaru might just work. Remember the Dragonfly
Expresso?
GRaham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
>>Lycoming or Continental <<
Weren't they both derived from auto engines? When did Ferdinand Porsche design
the VW beetle engine?
Most of the accessories were early motor car parts, fuel pump, carb, starter,
generator etc.
Why reinvent the wheel?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mid West Rotary |
>> I note from the latest Europa Flyer (nice work by the way, like the format)
that the Mid West engine is designed to eat oil <<
I don't know if it was intentional, but I'm told it also eats diesel, avtur,
parafin, central heating oil etc. all of which are nicely cheaper than petrol
and maybe even have a better calorific value, ie more miles per tank full.
It would seem it does have some endearing features.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <100421.2123(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Europa Mail:Instruments |
>> merely observing that if you are not making manoevres but merely making small
corrections to maintain stable flight a
fluid does know where up is, or at least was<<
Quite right. I have a Bohli compass in my Long EZ, and Peter Lert is right, in
the above situation it's relatively easy to maintain straight and level. If the
airplane pitches the course indicator moves up or down, if it rolls it moves
left or right.
Graham S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Europa Mail:Instruments |
Interesting thought. Given the extremely small and cheap rate gyros
available today (eight pin DIP package), that might be a basis for an
electronic attitude indicator; after all, it's how S-tec autopilots work.
Believe it or not, if all you're looking for is an emergency or
backup way of knowing if you're wings level, someone here in the US
figured out a way to parse out the track data from a GPS (NMEA output
sentence) and use that as a sensor. The idea is constant track=wings
level. I'll try to find the reference and post it here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: more europa stuff (fwd) |
Other way around, actually--little engines like the Continental A40 and
A65 were around before the VW.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Midwest AE-100 engine information requested |
>Dear builders:
>
>I am looking for some more detailed information regarding the Midwest
>AE-100 rotary engine.
>
>Noise level compared with ROTAX 912
>Vibration level compared with R'912
>Oild consumption/management
>RPM vs torque
>Has someone flown G-KITS with the new engine?
>
>Drop me a note to the Canadian Shield....
>
>Christoph Both #223, Halifax, Canada
>
Christoph,
The noise level on the Mid West AE-100 is higher than the Rotax, although in
fairness we have not yet concentrated on improving the silencer performance.
The vibration level is less than the Rotax 912 except when "2 stroking" at
low power settings.
Specific fuel consumption is about 40% more than the 912 - oil consumption
is 1% of fuel consumption, the oil is fed direct from the tank to the engine..
The torque curve is more or less flat.
We have about 40 hours in G-KITS with the Mid West so far.
Regards,
Andy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Midwest AE-100 engine information requeste |
>
> The noise level on the Mid West AE-100 is higher than the Rotax, although in
> fairness we have not yet concentrated on improving the silencer performance.
>
> The vibration level is less than the Rotax 912 except when "2 stroking" at
> low power settings.
>
> Specific fuel consumption is about 40% more than the 912 - oil consumption
> is 1% of fuel consumption, the oil is fed direct from the tank to the engine..
>
> The torque curve is more or less flat.
>
> We have about 40 hours in G-KITS with the Mid West so far.
>
Hi Andy. Nice to have to factory input
Your response begs another question....
Is Europa Aviation going to make the Mid West a "standard" option
with a full firewall forward kit?
Tony Krzyzewski
#272
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Margaret & Dave Watson <dmw(at)querandi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Susans unsubscribe problem |
Susan Hughes wrote:
> >>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
Your obviously not aware of the fact that computers, or their associated
software, do not understand human abuse in any form! I've tried it and
it doesn't work, you have to give them commands in a well defined
structure.
Try the sending a mail message to:
'europa-request(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk'
The mail message should contain the words:
'unsubscribe europa'
Make sure you type them in LOWER CASE characters, UNIX boxes are case
sensitive.
Happy disconnection............has she gone?
Dave Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re:Europa Mail:Instruments |
<
> Would have thought that might be a bit
lumpy - isn't the update rate around ten a minute in the interest of
limiting data storage ? However I suppose if you are not being subjected
to big disturbances it could be smoothed successfully. Yes I would like
to see the reference, and anything new on NMEA and especially Garmin
encryption.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | latch safety catches. |
I seem to remember there was a posting on these a long time ago, but I
seem unable to find it. A reposting would be appreciated.
regards
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
Having recently read in the mag with some considerable excitement about
this new innovation, it did occur to me that my unbounded enthusiasm
might be a little misplaced - particularly if I need access from the
front of the firewall to fit it. Engine runs a treat and it seems a
shame to disturb the poor thing - and if I need to move the top part of
that nice Graham Singletons lovely firewall I might even start to show a
little distress myself.
Anybody fitted one yet - I gather they were being handed out by Ivan at
the recent fly-in?
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Crutfield <aa112737(at)dasher.csd.sc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: COZY: --WARNING-- W31 Circuit Breaker --WARNING-- |
I've been on the sidelines on this one, and behind in my E-mail so I
waited until this string "played out" to post. Just my opinion, and
please don't restart the string, merely add this point to your decision
process in choosing between breakers and fuses.
One of the key points that I keep in mind is KISS. Now think about KISS
when considering breakers versus fuses. One is a very simple device with
no moving parts, the other is not that complex, but does contain a few
more parts, some of which have to move. My fear is not that I may not be
able to reset it because it has mechanically failed, but rather that it
may not trip because of a mechanical failure.
I'm sure that someone has seen a fuse that did not open under overload (I
have seen one), but I have seen quite a few molded case breakers in power
distribution systems mechanically fail and could not be switched off. I'm
not sure if they would have tripped with an overload, but they definitely
could not be "switched" off. Again, before you post I realize that
molded case breakers (these are the cheap kind that are in your house and
in larger form in most power distribution panels in industry) are not the
same as mil-spec aircraft quality breakers. But, as Steven's post
indicated, even a higher quality breaker suffers from some of the same
problems.
Regarding the troubleshooting aspect, that needs a little more
consideration on my part. My background is electronic\electrical and
also considering that I am the builder I feel confident that I will be
able to logically deduce which is the problem fuse. My pilot wife for
all her virtues may not apply the same logic.
randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | grantdes(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk (John Grant) |
| Subject: | Re: Door latch safety catches. |
>I seem to remember there was a posting on these a long time ago, but I
>seem unable to find it. A reposting would be appreciated.
>regards
>--
>Rolph Muller
>_
Yes Rolph, it was around 18/2/96 (Factory response) concerning possible
legal implications for the factory if it responded openly to builders
concerns.
I suggested that a factory response to my concern that there was no safety
catch would be unlikely because 'if the unthinkable happened' it might be
shown that they were aware but had taken no action.
Needless to say I was flamed, branded a whinger and asked to leave the forum.
It's a shame really, a builder's forum should be the ideal medium for openly
disscussing builders concerns either taking them up with the factory, or
laying them to rest by reasoned debate.
Unfortunately it seems that 'negative comments' are not allowed here or the
Europa magazine (see latest editorial).
There will always be a desire to suppress criticism or concerns if you earn
your living from selling kits or engines; but that suppression can have
safety implications.
It was quite obvious from Sod's law that a rolled up shirt sleeve would
cause the door to depart, just a matter of time. (If it can go wrong, it
will go wrong). It may be good news and very 'positive' that it ended with
a safe landing and no one on the ground injured but 'what if' it was piloted
by a less experienced pilot making a turn onto finals at low speed?
Would it not have been better if my 'negative comments' had been accepted as
a genuine concern and not a personal attack on their beloved leader.
John Grant (50
........That's whinge with a 'W'....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Susans unsubscribe problem |
>Susan Hughes wrote:
>
>> >>TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TYPE
>
Hmmmm. The longest email I've ever received. and the most boring.
Is this a case of net-rage?
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Door latch safety catches. |
In message <199610201042.LAA07271(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk>, John Grant
writes
>
>Needless to say I was flamed, branded a whinger and asked to leave the forum.
Very glad to see you back John!!!
:-}
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
Saw photos of the BMW conversion in the current issue of EAA Experimenter
magazine. Looks impressive. Since I am not a motorcycle enthusiast
(sp?) can some one let me know if this is totally air cooled, water
cooled or hybred water and air engine?
Steve Eberhart
newtech(at)newtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Two cylinders, horizontally opposed, air cooled.
See the BMW home page http://bau2.uibk.ac.at:80/urmann/bmw/bmw-r.html.
for pictures of the RS1100 in its more natural setting.
Tony #272
wrote:
> Saw photos of the BMW conversion in the current issue of EAA Experimenter
> magazine. Looks impressive. Since I am not a motorcycle enthusiast
> (sp?) can some one let me know if this is totally air cooled, water
> cooled or hybred water and air engine?
>
> Steve Eberhart
> newtech(at)newtech.com
>
>
---------------End of Original Message-----------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/21/96
Time: 16:10:02 New Zealand Summer Time (UTC +13)
Kaon Technologies - Building Tomorrow's Networks
PO Box 9830
Newmarket
Auckland Ph +64 9 358 9124
New Zealand Fx +64 9 358 9127
Visit http://www.kaon.co.nz
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>Saw photos of the BMW conversion in the current issue of EAA Experimenter
>magazine. Looks impressive. Since I am not a motorcycle enthusiast
>(sp?) can some one let me know if this is totally air cooled, water
>cooled or hybred water and air engine?
This is an air/oil cooled engine: essentially it's aircooled, but BMW run
oil galleries past the exhaust valve seats (claim: lowers temps there by 70
C.) before passing it through an oil cooler and back to the sump.
Apart from an old version of the motronic engine management system (2.2 vs
around 6.0 for the cars) it's a fairly up to the minute engine and certainly
on the shortlist -especially as spares distribution is likely to be even
more widespread than Rotax... if you need them. (Rather cheaper too, I'll bet)
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mod 36/U bolts |
Just about to bond in my landing gear frame. Should I wait for Mod 36?
Anyone with one have a view on this?
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duncan McFadyean <101234.3202(at)compuserve.com> |
There`s an advantage in using an early version of Motronic: it doesn`t shut you
down at service time and the error code memory can be interogated by blink
codes rather than dealer-only servicce kit. Later Motronic developments are more
appropriate to cat. equiped engines.
Anything Germanic is dear! But certainly less than Rotax prices and BMW spares
availability is very good. But as you say, what will you need?!
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | graeme(at)cobra.inect.co.za |
| Subject: | Re: Susans unsubscribe problem |
definately articulate
employably - she can type
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RonSwinden(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Door latch safety catches. |
In a message dated 20/10/96 11:43:36, rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk (Rolph
Muller) writes:
<< Very glad to see you back John!!!
:-}
--
Rolph Muller >>
Well said Rolph we need all the help and enthusiasum that we can get to
finish our aircraft and fly them safley but I hope that no one need feel
excluded for expressing his views especially if they are expressed with a
care and respect for feelings of others in the group. If they can also be
constructive thats good if not so be it lets hear em anyway and we can make
up our own minds.
So far as the Flyer is concerned I know that no editor has been subjected to
any pressure not arising from his readers, the lot of all editors surely so
please keep all views coming in to both this group and the Flyer Dave Watts
would love to hear from you PLEASE Ron S. No 33.
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk (Rolph Muller)
Date: 96-10-20 07:43:36 EDT
In message <199610201042.LAA07271(at)ayla.avnet.co.uk>, John Grant
writes
>
>Needless to say I was flamed, branded a whinger and asked to leave the
forum.
Very glad to see you back John!!!
:-}
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz (John Bampfylde) |
Cruising through past messages on aerials has only brought on more
confusion, so I thought a new set of questions were required:
The transponder aerial is a stubby little creature with a ground plane of 8
inches (?) diameter.
Q1: Am I right that the aerial should point vertically downwards?
Fibreglass is transparent to radio waves, and therefore for good looks, low
drag and less breakable bits the aerial should be inside the fuselage.
Q2 Is the optimal position for the aerial near the bottom of the hull?
If the aerial points downwards, the groundplane will be a horizontal dish a
few inches (the length of the aerial) above the fuselage hull floor.
Q3 Have people built a 'shelf' in the fuselage to mount the aerial?
The Aeroelectric connection talks about using copper tape as the
groundplane, and this tape can be glassed into the shelf (or hull if the
aerial sticks out).
Q4 Have most people followed this process or bought a ready made groundplane?
Looking through some photos of europas I can't even see a transponder aerial
anywhere!
Regards,
John Bampfylde, #130
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
From: John Bampfylde, INTERNET:jbamfyld(at)netlink.co.nz
Cruising through past messages on aerials has only brought on more
confusion, so I thought a new set of questions were required:
The transponder aerial is a stubby little creature with a ground plane of 8
inches (?) diameter.
Q1: Am I right that the aerial should point vertically downwards?
YES
Fibreglass is transparent to radio waves, and therefore for good looks, low
drag and less breakable bits the aerial should be inside the fuselage.
Q2 Is the optimal position for the aerial near the bottom of the hull?
YES . . . BUT NOT AS TRANSPARENT AS YOU MIGHT LIKE
If the aerial points downwards, the groundplane will be a horizontal dish a
few inches (the length of the aerial) above the fuselage hull floor.
Q3 Have people built a 'shelf' in the fuselage to mount the aerial?
YES . . . I'VE SEEN IT DONE EFFECTIVELY IN GLASAIRS
The Aeroelectric connection talks about using copper tape as the
groundplane, and this tape can be glassed into the shelf (or hull if the
aerial sticks out).
Q4 Have most people followed this process or bought a ready made groundplane?
FOR THIS APPLICATION, MAKE THE GROUNDPLANE FROM AN ALUMINUM OR COPPER
DISK 5.2 INCHES IN DIAMETER (SAME RADIUS AS HEIGHT OF ANTENNA).
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <101613.3377(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Aerials |
If you don't want to use a ground plane for your antenna, you can use the small
di-pole antenna from Advanced Aircraft Electronics Inc., Florissant, USA, Fax:
(314) 837-0106. Bill Butters is the one who is building those antennas and is
very helpful.
The antennas exist also for COM/NAV cost about USD 100 and are also distributed
by Aircraft Spruce.
Installation is straight forward by glueing them inside the fuselage. XPDR
antenna is about 10 cm long and I fixed mine vertically in the middle of the
right side of the fuselage; the NAV antenna is about 120 cm long and I fixed it
horizontaly behind the baggage bay and the COM antenna I installed in the fin as
foreseen in Europa's instruction.
happy building, Klaus Dietrich
Vienna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 12>24 volt power supplies(Graham Laucht) |
About six months ago, Graham Laucht published a circuit diagram for a voltage
booster - 12>24 volt, I think primarily to drive Turn & Slips. Graham very
kindly modified the circuit for me so that it would handle a slightly heavier
current to drive one of my bits of kit.
I successfully built the unit and it worked well, that is till I tried to
encapsulate it in resin (some months later). I tried to be clever and used
Isopon with a minimal quantity of hardener but it exothermed none the less
and fried the components. The trouble is that although I have the original
circuit diagram (and original component values), I have lost the revised list
of components. I seem to recall the values of some resistors and a capacitor
were changed.
Graham, if youre out there can you help. I dont have your e- mail address, so
i've had to go public..
You may recall it was for a rad alt drawing .6 amp at 24 volts.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CPattinson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Aerials |
A good simple explanation of home made antennas can be obtained from RST
Engineering in sunny California ! They publish a booklet on the subject for a
few dollars. In addition you will need some copper tape and a bag of toroids,
also a six inch bolt if you intend to make a xponder aerial. Suggest though
you get the bits in the UK (if British) as customs duty on a paperback and a
roll of copper tape proved to be extortionate and it took four weeks to
arrive (Air Mail !).
RST's web page is http://www.rst-engr.com/
The web page is worth a visit if only to sample their wacky sense of humour !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham E Laucht <graham(at)ukavid.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: 12>24 volt power supplies(Graham Laucht) |
In message <961022151733_1448191733(at)emout12.mail.aol.com>,
CPattinson(at)aol.com writes
>About six months ago, Graham Laucht published a circuit diagram for a voltage
>booster - 12>24 volt, I think primarily to drive Turn & Slips. Graham very
>kindly modified the circuit for me so that it would handle a slightly heavier
>current to drive one of my bits of kit.
>I successfully built the unit and it worked well, that is till I tried to
>encapsulate it in resin (some months later). I tried to be clever and used
>Isopon with a minimal quantity of hardener but it exothermed none the less
>and fried the components. The trouble is that although I have the original
>circuit diagram (and original component values), I have lost the revised list
>of components. I seem to recall the values of some resistors and a capacitor
>were changed.
>Graham, if youre out there can you help. I dont have your e- mail address, so
>i've had to go public..
>You may recall it was for a rad alt drawing .6 amp at 24 volts.
OK it's your lucky day Carl and now I know why my 2Gig hard drive is
almost full as here is the original message posted:
In message <960512054729_533451390(at)emout15.mail.aol.com>,
CPattinson(at)aol.com writes
>Several months ago someone ( I believe it was Graham Laucht) published a
>circuit design for a 12 - 28 volt converter, to drive a Turn & Slip. I am
>looking for some way of driving a 28 volt radio ( rated at .6 ampere ).
OK here we go nasty ascii time:
Vin +12.5-*------------*-----L1-----*---+D1|---*-------*---Vout +28V
to 15.5V | | | | | 0.6A
| __________________ | |
C1 - + | 5 4 | | C3 - +
- | | R2 > -
| | LM2577T-ADJ | < |
| |-----|1 U1 | > |
| | | 2 |-------| |
| C2- | | > |
| - |_________3________| R3 < |
| | | > |
| > | | |
| R1< | | |
| < | | |
| | | | |
GND-------*---*---------------*----------------*-------*----GND
That wasn't too painful after all!
All parts Maplin references:
R1 1K8 resistor M1K8
R2 43K resistor M43K
Re 2K0 resistor M2K0
C1 10uF 35V Min electro JL05F
C2 470n Min ceramic RA52G
C3 470U 50V High frequency electro JL53H
L1 Newport 14-334-28 330uH Inductor AL23A
D1 2A Ultra fast recovery diode MUR240 GX41U or
Shottky diode (International Rectifier 21DQ04, Motorola 1N5822)
U1 National LM2577T-ADJ Switching regulator
As drawn the output will be a shade under 28V but it makes component
selection easier. Don't substitute C3 for any ordinary electro cap.
Don't substitute C1 for a pill pack tantalum, the CAA doesn't like them.
DI anode shown connected to L1 and U1/4, cathode to R2,C2 and output.
Keep all earth tracks minimal and direct especially C3 to U1/3.
With care it can be constructed on 0.100" pitch stripboard.
Mount in a small diecast box away from any instrumentation and compass.
Feed with breakered or fused supply ~2.0A
Check output with voltmeter into a dummy load first, 47ohm 20W resistor
or two 21W car flasher bulbs wired in series. Switcher transistor (U1)
shouldn't require a heatsink but it could be mounted to the diecast box.
Tab is ground so no need to isolate.
--
Now this time buy some proper low exotherm potting compound from RS or
Maplin! Have fun....
--
Graham E Laucht
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
Just a quick question for those more intelligent than me. What does A/R in
the applicability column mean for optional mods? Mod No. 18 (Pitot
Positioning) mentions Page 7-10 & ff Issue 3.What is ff,and where are the
pages applicable, or have they been removed in my manual and replaced with
the mod summary in the front? I drastically miss an index. Anybody else feel
the same
Any tips would help!
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
Has anyone actually used a RST kit for their aerials, and if so what results
do you get? Most of us have probably visited their web site, but their
performance, is it worth the risk? Sure, they are cheap, but I believe like
most of us, you get what you pay for! Does anyone know to the contrary first
hand?
Regards
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rowil(at)gn.apc.org (Rowland & Wilma Carson) |
| Subject: | Re: Decoding Mod Index |
Tony Renshaw wrote
> Mod No. 18 (Pitot
>Positioning) mentions Page 7-10 & ff Issue 3.What is ff
Tony - "ff" usually translates to "& following pages" (unless you're a
musician). In this example, either the "ff" or the "-10" appears to be
redundant.
> I drastically miss an index.
There has been some talk of building an index for the builder's manual, and
of correlating it to the parts list. Grahams Singleton & Clarke have
mentioned it several times since 1-8-95. The last posting on the topic
appears to have been 11-3-96 when Graham Singleton reported that Roger Bull
was re-writing the manual in a more logical order, and he hoped it would
get indexed at the same time.
Indexing a document is not as simple as it seems; people can actually make
a living by specialising in it. However, anyone using Micro$oft's behemoth
Word application can use it to ease a lot of the drudgery of indexing.
Other software can be used instead to help in various ways.
cheers
Rowland
... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Davis <101621.3070(at)compuserve.com> |
And I was just getting to know her!
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry <jerry(at)flyinghi.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Magellan GPS 2000 |
In your message dated Monday 7, October 1996 you wrote :
> Just a note for those contemplating use of the GARMIN 45 in Europa:
>
> Some of the "random turnoffs" of the unit may have something to
> do with its built-in 90-knot speed limit--an unassailable software patch
> put in by GARMIN specifically to avoid the unit's use (read: sale) in the
> aviation marketplace. Thus, it'll generally be OK in a J-3 Kitten or the
> like (except with big tailwinds), but I'd hope any decent Europa would
> put it past its limit in short order.
>
> Actually, the receiver continues to track just fine; it's just
> the display that freezes up.
Although the cheaper Garmins are speed restricted the Magellan GPS 2000 is not!
**************** FlyingHi - Wish I was ****************
>>>>UK distributor for Arplast Composite propellers<<<<
>>>>>>> http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown <<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
An unusual title, but I know some of you are pretty active on your trash
key, so I needed to gain your attention for the following excerpt from an
Aussie paper.
Why the name Europa anyway? Maybe its founders proximity to Europe and the
intent of it becoming a continental tourer. If so, its popularity would
require a rename! This may shed some light on things. Read on!
"Life could exist beneath the icy surface of one of Jupiter's moons, NASA
scientists said yesterday. The latest images of Europa, taken by the Galileo
spacecraft, suggested the presence of water. If water does, or did, exist on
Europa, it could help determine whether the moon has an environment warm
enough to host life. NASA scientist Ronald Greeley said Europa showed a lot
of geological activity. He said parts of Europa's icy surface had broken
into large pieces and shifted apart. This shows th ice crust has been or is
still lubricated from below by warm ice or even liquid water, Dr Greeley
said. The photos revealed a cracked icy surface reminiscent of the
Earth'sice-covered Arctic ocean. What we're really looking for is niches
that could support life, Dr Greeley said. But Paul Davies, professor of
natural philosophy at Adelaide University, warned observers not to jump to
conclusions.Just because you've found a place that can support life, doesn't
mean life would have evolved there, he said".
Maybe the building of a Europa is like finding a new life! Draw your own
conclusions.
If anyone is interested still in Amine Blush, the sticky residue left on the
surface of ALL layups, irrespective of the type of hardener used, and would
like to know more, straight from SP Systems mouth (so to speak), let me know
and I'll uplink it individually or generally as desired.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
The Aussie Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CHRISTOPH BOTH" <christoph.both(at)acadiau.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Unknown Error!!! |
More information on amine blush, please, for all of us builders.
Christoph Both #223, Halifax, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miles McCallum <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Homemade Aerials |
>Gidday,
>Has anyone actually used a RST kit for their aerials, and if so what results
>do you get? Most of us have probably visited their web site, but their
>performance, is it worth the risk? Sure, they are cheap, but I believe like
>most of us, you get what you pay for! Does anyone know to the contrary first
>hand?
>Regards
>Tony Renshaw
I bought the book and the materials kit: I'm pleased with both, but as is
often the case, it raised as many questions as it answered:
What I wanted to know was stuff on handheld nav/com dual purpose copper
tape antennas (not covered at all) so I emailed RST for advice -the reply
being "post the question on rec.aviation.homebuilt so that the answer didn't
have to be reposted lots of times" (fair enough)
-but no answer a couple of weeks later.... out of desperation (just about
to do the LE layups, and the antenna needed to be buried under that) I
phoned... and was effectively told to ******** off - an attitude, I believe,
borne of a very litigation concious society (RST are in California) so I
took their final advice (guessing is OK) and cross my fingers..... -cheers,
chaps.
Perhaps I should have offered to pay....
However: their reputation in the States is outstanding (Rutan uses
them) and Ivan's antenna scheme is almost identical: a straw poll around
copper tape users universally reports good results, so the Flyer Europa will
be sprouting them (conceptually speaking) all over the place.
All the best
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dngore(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (David Gore) |
Is anyone aware that there is supposed to be the PFA's 50th anniversary
event at Shoreham this Saturday....
I am not sure what, if anything they have arranged but Shoreham will be
FREE landings if you bring your PFA membership card....
Would be nice to see a few Europas' turn up!
David Gore - UK, Sussex
Dngore(at)CIX.Compulink.co.uk
100013.516(at)Compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I asked Control Vision to answer some queries about their Exp Bus DC Management
Unit
(see http://www.controlvision.com). They came back with answers which I am am happy with.
Question: Under full load the EXp Bus could potentially be carrying 40 Amps. Some
would say that a
bunch of wires and connectors is going to be better than a printed circuit board
under these
circumstances. What have you done to ensure that the Exp Bus can handle this sort
of load?
>
> We have used massive traces with heavy copper plating, and our board can
> take well in excess of 60 amps of DC current (tested!)
>
>
Question: Because the PCB could have some connectors or track exposed
is there a possibility that a short may occur resulting in catastrophic failure?
>
> Again, we thought of that. The PC board is conformal coated with a
> resin, covering all traces and pads and solder connections. The
> terminals ARE exposed, as are all terminals in every spam can aircraft I
> have ever had the misfortune to venture under the instrument panel of...
>
> Really, if this is a concern, simply form an enclosure around the pc
> board with a piece of vinyl, or aluminum. We considered an enclosure,
> but as all homebuilts are different, this was deemed to be impractical.
> >
> If you get the product, and are concerned that it won't
> perform safely, we will gladly return your money [although shipping
> charges to NZ and back would be your gamble!!!) Always remember that in
> an aircraft, you must be totally sure of the technology you are using, we
> understand that this is rule number 1!!!
Personally, I am far happier with solid state fuse technology as implemented on
the
Exp Bus than with circuit breakers or fuses. I think these guys have developed
a unit which will
considerably simplify electrical wiring homebuilders and is probably much more
reliable than hand wired looms.
Tony
#272
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10/25/96
Time: 14:32:05 New Zealand Summer Time (UTC +13)
Kaon Technologies - Building Tomorrow's Networks
PO Box 9830
Newmarket
Auckland Ph +64 9 358 9124
New Zealand Fx +64 9 358 9127
Visit http://www.kaon.co.nz
--------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
Re: Exp Bus Follow Up
>>I asked Control Vision to answer some queries about
>>their Exp Bus DC Management Unit (see http://www.
>>controlvision.com). They came back with answers
>>which I am am happy with.
>>Question: Under full load the EXp Bus could potentially be
>>carrying 40 Amps. Some would say that a bunch of wires
>>and connectors is going to be better than a printed
>>circuit board under these circumstances. What have you
>>done to ensure that the Exp Bus can handle this sort of load?
> We have used massive traces with heavy copper plating, and our board can
> take well in excess of 60 amps of DC current (tested!)
This is generally not a problem . . . I've designed a number of
system that put 40+ amp continuous loads on PCB traces. Actually,
Heavy current is EASIER to handle in thin wide traces than with
a similar cross section of round wire . . . heat rejection area
and surface contact is higher.
>>Question: Because the PCB could have some connectors or track exposed
>>is there a possibility that a short may occur resulting in catastrophic failure?
> Again, we thought of that. The PC board is conformal coated with a
> resin, covering all traces and pads and solder connections. The
> terminals ARE exposed, as are all terminals in every spam can aircraft I
> have ever had the misfortune to venture under the instrument panel of...
>
> Really, if this is a concern, simply form an enclosure around the pc
> board with a piece of vinyl, or aluminum. We considered an enclosure,
> but as all homebuilts are different, this was deemed to be impractical.
A common question I see concerning any bus bar installation, "What happens
if the bus bar gets shorted?" I answer with, "Take a tool box and walk
out to any airplane of your choice and show me how you're going to get
the breaker bus grounded using only materials already present and in
close enough proximity to be a potential fault generator. Fact is,
there are no materials that fill the bill . . . exposed bus structures
behind the panel are generally quite free of such hazards or easily made
to be so . . .
> If you get the product, and are concerned that it won't
> perform safely, we will gladly return your money [although shipping
> charges to NZ and back would be your gamble!!!) Always remember that in
> an aircraft, you must be totally sure of the technology you are using, we
> understand that this is rule number 1!!!
I'm not concerned with SAFETY here . . . the potential failures I see here
will result in passive shut down of the affected circuit.
TOTALLY SURE is the operative phrase here. This product is mere months
in the markeplace and quite low in flight hours of experience compared
to breakers and/or fuses. . . .
>>Personally, I am far happier with solid state fuse technology as implemented
>>on the Exp Bus than with circuit breakers or fuses. I think these guys have
>>developed a unit which will considerably simplify electrical wiring
>>homebuilders and is probably much more reliable than hand wired looms.
I'm curious as to the source of the warm-fuzzy-feelings; the product
is new, the parts count is high, using electrical contacts of switches
(designed to support wires) as mechanical supports for PCB's is not
recommended by any switch manufacturer.
How will one control stresses on these contacts during installation? Variations
in hole location, twist on the mounting nuts, switch to switch variations,
assembly variations when soldering to the board, etc ?. . . These may add up
to reduced switch life. When a switch needs to be replaced, you have to
drop the whole assembly with switches intact and replace one switch (the
replacement has to be exactly like it's adjacent brothers) while fixturing
it with sufficient precision to prevent new stresses on the assembly
when it's reinstalled.
I've no doubt that purveyors of this product BELIEVE they've got a good thing
going here but I can assure you that had the product received the benefit
of critical design review and/or extensive field testing, it would be built
much differently. There's nothing sinister going on here, they simply don't
KNOW any better.
. . . and last, I would challenge the idea that this product "simplifies"
anything . . the hardest part of building a switch panel is getting all the
holes in a straight line and then putting on decent looking lables. The
product in question doesn't address that issue at all. Beyond putting all
the switches in straight and making them look good, the use of fuseblocks
makes the rest of the task trivial and it's a whole lot less expensive (approx
$10 per switched branch and $1.75 per unswitched branch). A 30-fuse, 6-switch
electrical distribution system can be installed for about $120 tops!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Evers <evers(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: PFA 50th Event |
At 22:43 24/10/96 BST-1, you wrote:
>Is anyone aware that there is supposed to be the PFA's 50th anniversary
>event at Shoreham this Saturday....
> I am not sure what, if anything they have arranged but Shoreham will be
>FREE landings if you bring your PFA membership card....
>Would be nice to see a few Europas' turn up!
That's down South somewhere isn't it?
Best wishes from: Eric Evers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <renshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Gidday,
I've spent a bit of time talking to SP Systems about Amine Blush and mix
ratios. I'll talk about each in turn:
AMINE BLUSH
Quote: "Amine Blush which you mention in your letter we call Amine
Bi-Product but it is the same thing. The Amines in the epoxy hardener will
react with any moisture in the atmosphere as the epoxy cures. This will only
occur after the epoxy has started to gel and will continue until a
reasonable state of cure has been reached.
This bi-product feels greasy or sticky dependant on the system and the
amount of moisture in the atmosphere. The slower the hardener the longer the
epoxy has to react wiht the moisture. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT ALL THE AMPREG 20
HARDENER YOU ARE USING PRODUCES BI-PRODUCT TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE BUT
THE SLOW HARDENER PRODUCES THAT UCH MORE SO IT IS MORE EASILY DETECTED
Without curing the epoxy under a vacuum or in a laboratory whth zero
humidity there are only two ways of overcoming the productionof bi-product.
1. Use a Peel Ply which a Nylon 66 woven material which is Silicon Free.
This is applied to the surface of the laminate and 'wetted out' whth the
epoxy system used.The laminate is then left to cure as normal. When the next
stage in the laminating /coating is to be carried out, the peel ply is
pulled from the surface. This leaves a perfectly prepared surface for
secondary bonding or coating as the bi-product which forms is removed on the
top surface of the peel ply.
2. The second is to wet sand the surface after the epoxy has cured, as the
bi-produce is water soluble, please note that dry sanding only clogs the
paper and smears the bi-product across the surface but does not remove it.
THIS BI-PRODUCT MUST BE REMOVED BEFORE THE NEXT COAT OR LAMINATE LAYER IS
APPLIED AS ADHESION TO THE PREVIOUS COATING/LAYER WILL BE GREATLY EFFECTED.
I later asked him about using vinegar to wash down the surface,prompted by
other e-mails where it has come up as an option. He explains:
"As to your question over why some people are using vinegar,the reason for
this is that if the bi-product is left for any length of time it bakes onto
the surface and can be very hard to remove. Then it is some time necessary
to a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water. The vinegar is a mild acid which in
conjunction with a 'scotch Brite' pad will remove even baked on material. If
the bi-product is not left for any time, it will not be necessary to use the
50/50 mix but only water.
Thats it! As a comment, there has been extensive dialogue about using Peel
Ply over the entire surface. The general consensus is DON'T DO IT!! Read
your Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Catalogue, read previous posted messages,
speak to Graham Singleton etc.So that only leaves the washdown option. You
may well ask why this isn't included in our manuals (or at least I don't
think it is). The a/c no doubt has it's composite design to achieve Ivan's
goals, and no doubt it does. At the same time,SP have suggested a treatment
to the surface prior to filling and painting. I know what I will be doing!
RESIN MIX RATIOS
My other topic Ratio mixing is prompted because I have purchased a set of
electronic scales accurate to 1/2 gram i.e. in 1 gram readout
increments.What follows is SP Systems response on the required accuracy of
mixes required by them. I should add that I made simultaneous enquiries to
Europa regarding mix ratios,whilst organising the purchase and shipment of
my wing and fuselage kits. Europa say a maximum of 5%! Does anyone remember
what I said once about "Believe nothing because a wise man said it" etc
etc.!!!!Don't stop asking questions! Anyway SP's next response follows to my
questioning about ratios:
"Your question about the accuracy of mix with Ampreg 20 has raised a debate
within our company. This is not the first time this qiestion has come to
light, but it has never been as fully explored in the past.
I am sorry to inform you that the current consensus is that the accuracy we
have been recommending to people in the past is not sufficiently strict, and
that it should be tightened to 1% of the total mix.This will mean that your
current scales are sufficient for 100 gram mixed but are not for 50 gram.
I am sorry that we can not recommend or guarantee that any of our products,
when mix ( with or without an error in measurement) can be used for a
specific application without carrying out trials under the same conditions.
Re Resin Pumps he says:
"I believe the other measuring device you mention is supplied by a company
in the US called J&B Products. If this is the case we have a sample which is
currently inder going trials, but as yet we do not gave a accuracy figure
which we could give you".
There is more talk to SP coming re postcuring. I have it on good authority
( an airlines fibreglass workshop staff), that postcuring needs to be done
in an exact way to maintain stability of the polymers, especially with
regard to how the piece is brought back to ambient i.e. the temperature drop
needs to be certainly controlled. This would suggest a more professional
method of oven design, but I'll reserve my judgement till I know more, and
I'll post it,hopefully more succinctly..
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
The Aussie Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Decoding Mod Index |
>Gidday,
>Just a quick question for those more intelligent than me. What does A/R in
>the applicability column mean for optional mods? Mod No. 18 (Pitot
>Positioning) mentions Page 7-10 & ff Issue 3.What is ff,and where are the
>pages applicable, or have they been removed in my manual and replaced with
>the mod summary in the front? I drastically miss an index. Anybody else feel
>the same
> Any tips would help!
>Regards
>Tony Renshaw
>
>
Tony
A/R means As Required
N/A means Not Applicable
ff means following pages
C/N means Construction Number
Page 7 - 10 & ff means Chapter 7 page 10 and following pages. This comes
in the Wing Kit section of the manual . Since your wing and fuselage kits
were only dispatched from the factory yesterday, you will not yet have that
part of the Manual, so it is hardly surprising that you couldn't find the
pages.. When you receive the Manual, you will find that it does have an
index of chapters.
When we send out a modification, it usually applies to builders at various
stages of construction and to completed aircraft. Subsequently the
substance of that modification gets included as part of the normal build
process. When it is part of the normal build process the modification is no
longer applicable since it is an integral part of the build. That is the
point of the final column headed "Included in manual @".
Therefore when you build your wings you will have instructions for the
position of the pitot included in the Manual (at pages 7-10 and following)
which are the substance of Mod 18.
Then when you come to do the final checks before flying you will know that
the requirements of that Mod have been carried out.
Regards
Roger
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ist: Exp Bus DC Management Unit |
RE: RV-List: Exp Bus DC Management Unit
>I have learnt about the above unit and read the various comments on the unit
>by Bob Nuckolls and I would like to add my French Francs worth (perhaps I
>may even make his day).
>The idea of an integrated switching unit no doubt is an easier system to
>wire up than having seperate switches and circuit breakers. Another
>important advantage is that it will use less panel space, which is always at
>a premium.
Less panel space only compared to classic switch-panel and acres-
of-breakers approach. When compared to switch/fuseblock installation
panel space is roughly the same but volume immediately behind the
switches is now dedicated to the ECB assembly . . . I like to see
this area stay more open for access to items above. An offsetting
architecture I've seen discussed is to mount the ExpBus assembly
at the TOP of the instrument panel in the center . . . nothing
above it. I see this trading one maintenance difficult for another.
>The main disadvantage I see with the system is that you can't detect when
>you have an overload condition. With the circuit breaker it will trip out
>and this may be detected sooner or later, as checking the CBs is one of the
>pre flight checks.
In 16 years and 1000+ hours with over 600 logged departures, I've
NEVER climbed into an airplane to find a breaker open. At Beech
we used to do receiving inspections on ALL electronic components.
We paid people to sit at a bench and test every resistor, capacitor,
etc. From a customer relations standpoint, it appeared as though
we were REALLY getting a handle on quality . . . I asked an operator
one day, "How many bad resistors do you find every day?" The reply
was, "Never found a bad one yet!" One might conclude that for all
the pomp and circumstance on display in receiving inspection, no
action taken there was doing anything to IMPROVE our product
quality.
Circuit breaker tripping and fuse blowing is a very RARE event
in airplanes, cars, etc. Further, should some fault occur in
flight, I'm not likely to look at the breaker panel until AFTER
I percieve that some piece of equipment isn't working. THEN,
supposing that I do find a breaker popped . . . whats the
probability that resetting it gets me the system back?????
>It should be possible to overcome the above problem by using an electronic
>circuit which lights a LED when the electronic circuit breaker has gone to
>the high resistance state.
What's the problem to overcome? Adding LED's simply drives parts
count higher, adds another cockpit gizmo to distract a pilot
from his flying duties and only serves to confirm that, yes,
the turn coordinator is indeed crapped out. At that time,
I'll suggest that knowing WHY it's crapped out is close to
useless information; interesting but not helpful in accomplishing
a comfortable completion of flight.
>What I would suggest to Bob is that with his experience of aircraft
>electrical systems that he designs a better system based on his ideas and
>those of us on the RV list. He could then produce and sell us a circuit
>board and components so that we could produce our own at a reasonable cost.
I think I've done that. It's up to you guys to show me where it's
wrong. Let me touch on the features of switch/fuseblock installations.
(1) Fabrication time: Except for installation and labeling of switches,
all components are purchased parts. If breakers are used, both breaker
and switch panels have to be fabricated and bus bars built. The
techniques I propose eliminate all but switch panel fabrication.
(2) Weight: 20 slot fuse block loaded with fuses 260 gms
20 miniature breakers 600 gms + bus bars (estimate 100
gms more)
(3) Cost: 20 slot fuse block loaded with fuses approx $36
20 miniature breakers approx $400
(4) Parts Count: The number of pieces between bus bar and powered
item on a non switched branch . . .
FuseBlock: 3
Breaker: 6 (not counting number of pieces INSIDE breaker!)
Polyswitch (solid state breaker): probably somewhere in between .
. .
(5) Parts Count for switched branch:
FuseBlock/Switch: 6 (not counting number of pieces INSIDE switch!)
Breaker: 9 (not counting number of pieces INSIDE breaker or switch!)
Polyswitch (solid state breaker): probably somewhere in between .
. .
(6) Wire Installation: For each non switched branch, there is no
difference in the number of wires for any of the
systems being discussed. For switched circuits,
the switch/fuseblock technique adds only one wire
and two terminals for each switch . . . the piece
that runs from fuse block to switch.
(7) Servicability: Toggle switches with fast-on tabs can be replaced in
3-5 minutes sitting in the pilot's seat. Fuses are easily
replaced in the very rare event that replacement is ever needed.
Given that most failures of electrical system components is
mechanical due to environmental stresses and cycles, one might
give consideration to periodic replacement of ALL switches and
fuse blocks at intervals of say . . . every 5 years?
Fuseblock replacement: About 20 minutes and $36
Breaker replacment: 5-10 hours and $400
Polyswitch replacment: probably not necessary
Replace 7 switches: About 30 minutes and $50
>It should be possible to integrate other function such as flashing landing
>lights and a system to select manual or automatic operation of say the fuel
>pump and landing lights so that when in landing and take off configuration
>(ie when flaps are down) they are turned ON. Also current detectors could be
>built into say the fuel pump landing light and pitot heat circuits to detect
>current flow and indicate they are operating.
These functions go more toward issues of annunciation and pilot workload
reductions with addition of automated operations. I've been working
peripherally on the American General Aviation Technology Experiment (AGATE)
program on behalf of Beech/Raytheon. AGATE is an example of how AUTOMATED
some people believe an airplane should be (or become). As an engineer
who also flys what he builds, I gotta tell you that I'm not impressed with
what I've seen proposed so far. Parts counts (another word for system
complexity) are astounding. When counts go up, so does labor and inital
costs while reliability goes down. For my time and effort, I'm inclined
to keep it simple.
>You could even sell it to the fiberglass crowd at a premium of course, as
>they have more money than sense, and make a small fortune.
You gotta cut these guys some slack . . . they're just not in control . .
. . . it's called BUI (building under the influence . . . of epoxy
fumes).
>TGIF, and hope you all have a better weekend than me as I am half way
>through Prosealing my second tank
My condolences . . . ya don't want to breath much of that stuff
either!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | Re: Decoding Mod Index |
About a year ago Ted Gladstone and I posted EURPART#.dbf,.xls, and txt
files in the ftp site. This enables indexing of parts against page and/or
figure numbers. AFAIK it's still there. While not a full index (we had to
type it in as no WP. source was available), it's better than nothing!
Note: does not apply to the new manual.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Lowe" <DennisL(at)inovatec.co.uk> |
I am planning to start building in spring 97, spending the winter building
a workshop.
Can anyone advise me if a workshop 22' by 7'6" is sufficient size? I have
access to separate premises for storage of completed assemblies.
With regard to handheld GPS can anyone advise me if they use a standard
data exchange protocol with peripheral equipment?
Many thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
Hello Dennis,
welcome to the electronic europa group. Theres plenty of info here, and you
may want to have a look through your 'welcome' note when you signed onto
europa(at)avnet.co.uk to read some of the previous emails.
>I am planning to start building in spring 97, spending the winter building
>a workshop.
having started without one, but now having one on long term loan, I would
recommend you buy a decent size air compressor first if you dont yet have
one, plus tools eg drill, right angle grinder etc NOW. especially if you plan
to paint it yourself. Insulate the place as well as possible, it will save
money in the long term, and help the resin curing.
>Can anyone advise me if a workshop 22' by 7'6" is sufficient size? I have
>access to separate premises for storage of completed assemblies.
this is just about my setup, plus the back garden is big enough to rig it,
when the weathers nice too. If you can store seperately it does help, but you
can certainly build a europa in your proposed workshop
>With regard to handheld GPS can anyone advise me if they use a standard
>data exchange protocol with peripheral equipment?
cant help you with this one, but someone will be along soon with the
answer, and he may very well be called 'Graham'
happy vorbereitet,
chus, dave
kit67
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Aerials |
In message <199610220056.NAA22617(at)mako.netlink.co.nz>, John Bampfylde
writes
>Cruising through past messages on aerials has only brought on more
>confusion, so I thought a
I bought one at great expense from Aircraft Spruce - designed for
fibreglass aircraft. It looks like a short piece of plastic with a BNC
connector in the middle. It is mounted at the back of the cockpit
bulkhead and mounted with cable ties until I can get it's operation
checked - which will be some while now because I have to find someone
who will do some TIG welding for me apparently.
:-{
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rolph Muller <rolph(at)globalvt.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Mods/Ivans Letter |
Time for an expression of concern - and a moan - first real moan I think
- primarily caused by Ivans letter of 22nd October which did not seem to
be written with his usual diplomacy(?). To quote loosely " we pulled
OTI into the workshop, simply removed - whole operation took one day"
I'm sure it did - trouble is I'm a me not a we and the workshop has been
given over to another project. I reckon on between one to two weeks. So
that's the moan.
The concern however is this. None of Europa's tests apparently caused
failure even at "reserve energy". The cause of the "few" failures would
therefore not seem to have been established (how many is "few" ? - there
are only a "few" flying). How much confidence is there that the
mandatory modifications will eliminate what appears to be a problem of
undefined magnitude with an indeterminate cause?
I'd appreciate it, ifwhoever is reading this at Europa would pass a copy
of this (forget the moan by all means) on to Ivan for his comments.
--
Rolph Muller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gemin(at)cix.compulink.co.uk (Graham Clarke) |
| Subject: | e goes the energy now? |
This mail has been composed after consultation with a number of builders
who have been waiting in vain for some days to see reactions to the "Main
Gear" letter, mod no. ??. Is it shock, resignation, or apathy ? The
mods.in this area have been getting more severe each time at significant
expense to the factory and the builders in terms of both effort and cash.
In the beginning the bungy block, (a re-usable energy absorber) seemed
like a good idea until it turned out that in returning the energy, it
bounced the aircraft (quickie-wise) back into the air. Is this why it has
never be used before ? Although I have driven an American car with piston
mounted bumpers, modern car protection is based on crumple zones as near
the accident as possible, not on springy systems. Introduction of stops
increases the load transfer when they are reached, and a hydraulic damper
(returning the energy progressively) was apparenty is not sufficiently
large in the space available to do the job. The various mods to the frame
and its stops have resulted in isolated case(s) of buckling which means
we have an inbuilt crumple zone which might be a bit too weak.
Unfortunately in the absence of recorded data from these instances, the
actual load to which it has been subjected is not known. Quite rightly
the factory set out to remove this doubt with drop tests, which seem to
have shown that it has to be a very abnormal load to damage the frame,
but nevertheless have offered more strengthing to prevent it. But is this
the correct thing to do ? Leaving aside the difficulty and/or expense and
delay of doing the latest mod. to complete or near-completer aircraft, it
will certainly increase the possibility of passing more load beyond the
frame into the tunnel/fuselage. The tests carried out with the frame
only, cannot tell us where the buck(le) stops now. So please can the
factory repeat this test with at least a dummy tunnel and bulkhead in
place if not a real fuselage, before we do this mod. only to find that
the next time the fuselage collapses. If a problem is then found, a
number of suggestions are available, such as removing the block assembly
and replacing it with two or more hydraulic dampers as used by many
conventional undercarriages, motor cycle forks etc.
gemin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven A Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
I just received my December issue of Kitplanes and in the section
detailing all of the kit plane offerings the Mono and Tri gear Europa are
detailed, with the photograph of G-Kits sporting slick looking "spats"
a.k.a. wheel pants. Now that G-Kits has a Mid West rotary and wheelpants
does any one have the new performance specs for this configuration?
The specification pannels for the two configurations list list a 75 pound
greater gross weight for Tri gear model and a 5 mph faster cruise speed,
150 vs 145 mph. for the Rotax 912.
The same issue has a good article by Peter Kember subtitled: "The author
is the first customer to complete a Europa - and he tells all. Good
article with new pictures that I haven't seen published anywhere else.
Steve Eberhart
newtech(at)newtech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin J.Tuck" <102034.2747(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ... save $1,500. |
Shhh ... save $1,500.
Yes, I've just got my October newsletter by snail-mail. With over 300 Europa's
sold and a potential for 300+ Rotax 912's it's time to maximize profit chaps and
restructure the pricing, discontinue the 10% discount for Europa's and stick in
a 3% price hike to boot! (Didn't they increase the price by 3% last year too?).
Assuming this is applicable to U.S completions (any confirmation of this would
be appreciated), I have 5 days left to find UKL3,000 - or US equivalent
(maybe??) or face a UKL1,000 increase in the engine price. I'm surprised there
has been no mention in the E-mail, I spoke to Lakeland on Friday on a different
subject too but no mention then either. If the factory subscribes to this forum
will someone tell them how it can be used to 'newsflash' such information, it
must have been known before going going to press. Why the hush?
If anyone else is considering the Rotax, the prices quoted in the newsletter are
inclusive of the 10% discount and are valid until 31st October. A UKL3,000
deposit is required to guarantee your engine at this price.
With the same newsletter featuring mentions of two engine failures - one
Mid-west rotary powered and one Subaru powered - I still favor the Rotax - I
just wish we had more notice of impending price hikes.
Meanwhile, airframe doing well. Fin in place - now working on rudder.
Regards
Martin Tuck
#152
Wichita, Kansas
USA
Follow #152's progress at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjkt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Lert <plert(at)csn.net> |
Re: "standard" protocol for handheld GPSs
Yes, virtually all of them use a marine protocol called NMEA 0183.
(Stands for National Marine Electronics Association.) There are a couple
of different formats, and it was originally designed for marine
autopilots, plotters, etc. The data stream is a series of pure ASCII
"sentences" each consisting of an identifying header telling the
receiving equipment what the content of the sentence is going to be,
followed by numerical data. (I.e., "this next sentence is going to be
deviation from track, 0.03 nm" etc.)
Any good marine electronics shop should have a listing of the NMEA protocols.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bearder/Barraclough <106313.2726(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | gy / Landing Gear Frame |
In response to Graham Clarke and Rolph Muller's messages showing concern
about the latest landing gear frame problem, I too am extremly concerned we
are beefing up the frame and transfering the potential problem to the
fuselage stucture.
As it is at the moment, if the frame does collapse, it can be replaced.
Europa have flown YURO, ELSA and others, as have other builders from all
kinds of surfaces without any problems as far as we are told and I suspect
the problem is not with the aircraft but with those flying them. When the
gear has collapsed, that particular landing MAY not have been heavy but
what about the ones that have gone before. I think some soul searching from
those builders who are now flying may be in order and hopefully the
factory, with HONEST inputs from those who have experienced problems, will
then be in a position to decide on what Mod if any really is required. The
landing gear frame will be easier to change than the whole tunnel
structure!!
I have not flown my Europa yet so cannot judge from experience, but the
tests on the gear frame that have been carried out before this problem
seems adequate to me. If your landings are exceeding the limits of these
previous tests, thus bending/breaking the gear frame, I would consider them
as CRASHES not landings! This must be a pilot problem NOT an aircraft
problem. Judgeing rate of descent at touch down is a PILOT skill.
IF this TIG welding Mod is required, which in my case will have to be done
in situ, can the inspectors out there tell me if this has to carried out by
a licensed aircraft welder?
David Barraclough
Builder 13, G-BVLH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder Aerials |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Rolph Muller
RE: Transponder Aerials
>>I bought one at great expense from Aircraft Spruce - designed for
>>fibreglass aircraft. It looks like a short piece of plastic with a BNC
>>connector in the middle. It is mounted at the back of the cockpit
>>bulkhead and mounted with cable ties until I can get it's operation
>>checked - which will be some while now because I have to find someone
>>who will do some TIG welding for me apparently.
Rolph,
What's the "welding" about? Surely nothing to do with your transponder
antenna installation. The antenna you describe sounds like the small
"shark-fin" shaped antenna which is electrically and operationally
interchangeable with the 2.6" tall mono-pole antenna. Either antenna
should be mounted either (1) on a the largest possible metalic area
on the underside of a metal airplane or (2) mounted in the center
of a 5.2" diameter disk of aluminum, brass or copper for composite
aircraft and glassed into the belly structure of the fuselage.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | you waiting for a Dimmer? |
One of our brethren in aviation frivolities and
and foolishness ordered an instrument dimmer kit
from us and I've misplaced the order. Dee said she
took a phone message from someone in England about
an over-due dimmer and thought I would know instantly
who that was . . . she wasn't at her desk and didn't
write down the name.
Just in case the abused customer indeed resides in England
AND reads this list, kindly rattle my cage via e-mail
and I will immediately make amends for my errant bookkeeping . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
>If you're tired of hurting your hands when cutting short
>lengths of small dia. tubing to be used for spacers (you'll
>do several during the course of building your RV) simply
>chuck up the tubing in your variable speed electric or
>battery drill and use it to turn the tubing while your other
>hand tightens the cutting wheel of your tubing cutter.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
You can also use a three-corner file to score tubing
while spinning it in a drill motor. After scoring thin
wall tubing, it will snap off very nicely leaving a
minimal burr which can be smoothed by touching the
end of the spacer to a sanding disk while the cutoff
piece is spun with the drill motor.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
August 31, 1996 - October 28, 1996
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-af