Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ch
February 22, 2002 - March 05, 2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
correct! Too hot in summer, that was also my problem...so I simply replaced
all my heater arrangements/ducting and plumbed them to a new NACA opening
in the lower cowling just infront of the right footwell, where I had my
heater-box-distributer and have now a lot of additional fresh air during
summer.
Klaus (600hrs)
Alan Stewart wrote:
> Agree with Klaus and Barry,
>
> I wouldn't want cabin heat either.
>
> In over 400 hours in my classic, through all the seasons and at all
> altitudes I can't ever remember feeling
> particularly cold with engine running (whilst wearing warm outer
> garments).
>
> I do remember feeling hot in the sunshine on numerous occasions under a
> closed canopy, particularly on the ground.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Cabin heat
>
> I agree with Klaus,
>
> I find that I feel cold only when the ground temperatures are minus.
>
> Barry tennant
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Augustene Brown <augustene(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin heater question |
HI Troy
As Bob Barker said "COME ON DOWN"
For me a cold winter means I have to wear long paints for a week.
Jim & Augustene
N398JB
TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi Y'all,
> I was thinking that a lot of folk with a heater on a Europa had used the oil
> cooler as a heat source. I'm not sure if you could control the oil temp using
> this method since I have not practical experience at this yet. Building a
> classic monowheel, I think I will be resigned to having to purchase TWO
> heater boxes and bolt them to each side of the firewall in order to have a
> firestop. Upstream from that, the two would "Y" together to a shroud behind
> all or some of the oil cooler mounted under the spinner. Is this sound
> reasoning you all? (I wish there was a way to incorporate cooling air into
> the ducts at some point to feed two eyeball vents I have in the panel.)
> If you use one heater box you would have to tee off it to both footwells to a
> flange fitting on each. Then to have a fire stop at the firewall you'd have
> to have yet another shut-off at each flange. Too complex. I may just move to
> Florida.
> Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch> |
It seems that keeping fingers and feet warm enough isn't a problem in an Europa
even in deep winter at high altitudes. But what about demisting and defreezing
the windshield? My experiences with Robin aircraft tell me that at minus temperatures
warm air for this purpose is a must.
Alfred
#097 Monowheel 912S still building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
only time I experienced some mist on the windshield was during groundoperation
when all vents are closed, two poeple on board and no air circulation; but never
in flight.
Klaus
Alfred Buess wrote:
> It seems that keeping fingers and feet warm enough isn't a problem in an Europa
even in deep winter at high altitudes. But what about demisting and defreezing
the windshield? My experiences with Robin aircraft tell me that at minus temperatures
warm air for this purpose is a must.
>
> Alfred
> #097 Monowheel 912S still building
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi All,
Been watching the thread about cabin heat and since I have Heat/Defrost
installed and use it regularly up here in good old cold, wet Seattle I'll
put in my two cents worth (or is it two lbs worth?)!
First let me say that in this area there is no way you can fly without some
type of heat and especially defrost. When it's cold, damp and cloudy the
windshield does fog up. Last week Cliff & I went flying and the windshield
was totally fogged up before takeoff - we even commented on how effective
the Defrost was. While flying the heat on the toes and the defrost really
helps. I would guess if it was really cold and sunny you may not NEED the
heat - but in Seattle it's never sunny so I wouldn't know!!!
My system uses two heat boxes on the firewall. These are the RV style boxes
from aircraft spruce. Heat is routed into one box from a blocking plate
that was installed on the back of the radiatior. Air passes through the
radiator and is funneled up into a hose connected to the airbox. I felt the
radiator was safer than using the heat muff (which is standard on my
muffler) because I worry about C.O. Luckly with the rotax you have the
choice of using the radiator. The air box drops into a duct built into the
panel that sends hot air to the toes and then up to the panel top with two
vents for window defrost. The other airbox is for cabin air taken off a
duct in the cowl. I also run carb heat off of the radiator heated air
through another air box.
I have been flying for over a year and through two winters up here and the
system has worked well. My only real problem is that the enging runs a bit
cool when it's really cold and I plan on adding a cowl flap in the future.
Bob Jacobsen
A131 N165BB
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Jukes" <owla(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
You need a file called fsconv98.exe which converts the mdl file to FlightSim
98 format then it will work with FS98 and FS2002. The file was available
from MicroSoft FS web site, Avsim and some other flight sim sites.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Gladstone" <Ted_Gladstone(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: X Plane - I have one
>
> >>
> << The is an old Europa Monowheel model for MSFS (maybe version4 or 5)
> kicking around. That's all I have seen.
> >>
> >>
> >>Anyone know where to find this?
> >>Troy
> >>
>
> I made one several years ago for Microsoft FlightSim v5 but it won't work
> with later versions of MSFS :-(
>
> Unfortunately I can't make MSFS v5 work on my new computer but I still
have
> the Europa Aircraft files somewhere.
>
> Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>My only real problem is that the enging runs a bit
cool when it's really cold and I plan on adding a cowl flap in the future.
<
I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so that
they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl fitting/removal.
If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rich Butler" <rich_butler2(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | pa Stage One for sale |
For Sale:
Europa Stage One (Tail section, rudder)
Fast-Build option (pre-skinned)
If anyone is interested, please E-Mail me at
Rich_Butler2(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
Apologies for the silly question, but don't the 912 engines have
thermistats as in auto engines?
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Charles
Subject: I have Heat/Defrost
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>My only real problem is that the enging runs a bit
cool when it's really cold and I plan on adding a cowl flap in the
future.
<
I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so
that
they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl
fitting/removal.
If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
How 'bout putting the photos up on the club site?
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Charles
Subject: I have Heat/Defrost
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>My only real problem is that the enging runs a bit
cool when it's really cold and I plan on adding a cowl flap in the
future.
<
I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so
that
they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl
fitting/removal.
If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so that
they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl fitting/removal.
If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
Nigel Charles
I am very interested in seeing that.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
dja727(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Hi Nigel,
I'm not sure if I will need cowl flaps or not, but would be interested to
see how you have done it --just in case.
Regards,
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
| From: | Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net> |
No, Rotax engines do not use coolant thermostats as there is no minimum
coolant temperature requirement. However, the oil temp must be 120F minimum
prior to prop cycling, take-off or flight, otherwise the oil bypasses the
filter below that point.
kp
> From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:26:12 -0500
> "'INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk '"
> Subject: Re: I have Heat/Defrost
>
> Apologies for the silly question, but don't the 912 engines have
> thermistats as in auto engines?
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
> A239
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nigel Charles
> Subject: I have Heat/Defrost
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>> My only real problem is that the enging runs a bit
> cool when it's really cold and I plan on adding a cowl flap in the
> future.
> <
>
> I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so
> that
> they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl
> fitting/removal.
> If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
>
> Nigel Charles
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph K. Hallett III" <rhallett(at)gbis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
Thanks to you all. I've taken a deep breath and have started to make an Europa
XS(short wings first), using x-plane 6.0. If it isn't just a total disaster I
will let you all know and post it.
As an introduction, I live in Reno,NV and will be building a motor glider. To
the best of my knowledge there are 4 other Europa's close by. So I'm in great
company.
Back into the wood work, and I'll keep reading your thoughts.
Thanks,
Ralph
Edward Gladstone wrote:
> >>
> << The is an old Europa Monowheel model for MSFS (maybe version4 or 5)
> kicking around. That's all I have seen.
> >>
> >>
> >>Anyone know where to find this?
> >>Troy
> >>
>
> I made one several years ago for Microsoft FlightSim v5 but it won't work
> with later versions of MSFS :-(
>
> Unfortunately I can't make MSFS v5 work on my new computer but I still have
> the Europa Aircraft files somewhere.
>
> Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mansfield" <M(at)nsfield.screaming.net> |
> Anyone know where to find this?
I got a couple of .zip files from the Europa FTP server
ftp://ftp.avnet.co.uk/pub/europa/ , but it won't let me in any more. I can
email them to you off list if you like (~220KB total).
It does say in the readme, however, "You must have version 5.x of
Microsoft's Flight Simulator for the PC together with a copy of Apollo
Flight Shop to use these files." although I seem to recall using it on FS98
with no additional paid-for stuff (I may have downloaded a freeware Flight
Shop, or it may not be needed in FS98 - I can't remember the details now,
but it worked & I was flying G-EMIN (Graham Clarke's Europa) from Blackbushe
(my local field))
I have since changed PC & not got around to re-installing FS & the Europa
add-on; but you're welcome to the files anyway...
Rgds
Paul
XS Mono 383
----- Original Message -----
From: <TroyMaynor(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: x plane
> In a message dated 2/20/02 12:44:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu writes:
>
> << The is an old Europa Monowheel model for MSFS (maybe version4 or 5)
> kicking around. That's all I have seen.
> >>
>
> Anyone know where to find this?
> Troy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | ing on wing skins |
Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
experience. Yuk!
I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've looked
in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
Richard Iddon (533)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
MAILER-TRACE: 0
Please ignore.
John Cliff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Hi Richard,
If you take a look at http://pma.obtero.net under October, November &
December 1999 I have described my "wing skin bonding escapades". You might
find some useful information there.
Regards, Paul
PS. I just checked and the WEB server is down, give it a day or so and it
will be back up. I can't complain, its a free service !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: bonding on wing skins
> Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> experience. Yuk!
>
> I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
looked
> in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
> easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
>
> Richard Iddon (533)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Problem at Avnet |
This message is aimed only at those subscribers who use Avnet as their ISP, i.e.
whose email addresses are in the form xxxxx(at)avnet.co.uk or xxxxx(at)flyer.co.uk ,
who have been unable to send messages to the forum for 3 weeks because of an
obscure problem at Avnet (who host the forum).
I continue to ask for this to be fixed but no effective solution has yet been
forthcoming.
In the meantime, and until I can announce that the problem is finally fixed, you
can post a message to the forum by sending it to the alternative address
forum(at)crix.org.uk [this is a redirected address in my own domain, pointing to
the forum].
Delivery of messages to affected subscribers is OK, ( but I can't vouch for what
will happen if a subscriber has elected to turn off the Reply To property in his
profile and tries to Reply to a message redirected in this way).
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Skyflash strobe system |
Forwarded message (i.e. not from me) for
"Richard Holder"
*************************************************
Dear All
I intend to put a pair of Skyflash strobes on G-OWWW. One on the fin and one
underneath the fuselage.
I understand that this will involve a "modification" application to the PFA.
I'm sure it has been done before. Any of you guys ? If so, which was the
original aircraft for which application was made ? What mods are necessary
for the fuselage ? (I make it about three holes (small) with some BID to
strengthen these holes).
Was there any problem with the application ? A copy would be most useful.
Alternatively one on the fuselage top and one underneath.
Has anyone done it on the basis that it isn't a big enough modification to
faf around with the PFA procedures ?
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
I am about to put in my modification application to add an inspection hatch
in the firewall. As it has been done before I am not expecting any hassle or
delay, but I will report back !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Skyflash strobe system |
Dear Richard,
The fuse top is preferable to the fin top. A because you don't get so muh flash
on the panel and B its a lot easier to install.
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> "John Cliff" 23/02/02 14:56:21 >>>
Forwarded message (i.e. not from me) for
"Richard Holder"
*************************************************
Dear All
I intend to put a pair of Skyflash strobes on G-OWWW. One on the fin and one
underneath the fuselage.
I understand that this will involve a "modification" application to the PFA.
I'm sure it has been done before. Any of you guys ? If so, which was the
original aircraft for which application was made ? What mods are necessary
for the fuselage ? (I make it about three holes (small) with some BID to
strengthen these holes).
Was there any problem with the application ? A copy would be most useful.
Alternatively one on the fuselage top and one underneath.
Has anyone done it on the basis that it isn't a big enough modification to
faf around with the PFA procedures ?
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
I am about to put in my modification application to add an inspection hatch
in the firewall. As it has been done before I am not expecting any hassle or
delay, but I will report back !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Stage One for sale |
MAILER-TRACE: 0
Hi Rich
I don't want to worry you but I have had my stage one fast build for sale
for best part of a year now (kit inlcudes everything from books and videos
right down to the digitalscales and workbench).
Incomplete stage build kits are almost impossible to sell thanks to factory
policy ( I have found out that I am not alone).
I have had no less than 7 buyers who have now pulled out after talking to
the factory (the latest one being last weekend after having the van booked
ready to pick it up).
They have either been persuaded to buy a new kit from the factory at a
heavily discounted price or been put off buying all together by high prices
being
quoted to them for the remainder of my kit.
Maybe you will be lucky.
For your info my kit price has been advertised as best offer over 2500 for
some time but I am now accepting ANYoffers.
I am also considering selling the kit piece meal as I have a buyer for the
rudder!
I have even considered a ceremonial burning with press call but I don't
really want to lower myself to that!
As you can tell I am very disillusioned by the whole thing but I wish you
luck.
Keith Tallent
Ex builder no 221
(The dream has turned into an expensive nightmare!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Butler <rich_butler2(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Europa Stage One for sale
> For Sale:
> Europa Stage One (Tail section, rudder)
> Fast-Build option (pre-skinned)
> If anyone is interested, please E-Mail me at
> Rich_Butler2(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MELVYNBS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Test Message |
Try as I might I cannot simply ignore this ignore this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
Hey Europafolks, I'm figuring out a trip to FL for sun and fun. Wondering
if anyone might be thinking the same and might want to share a rental car
from Tampa (TPA) to get to the show and back. I plan to camp at the show
and am flexible on the exact dates of arrival and departure. I've never been
to this airshow so if anyone has any great insight on the affair please
share. I'm hoping to get some ideas on building my Europa (A211) as I have
only seen two flying examples so far.
Build on... Kevin Klinefelter
Bishop CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
Apologies to the forum for the off-topic sim diversion but....
...since I have FS2002, when I try and install fsconv98 it politely tells me
that I don't have a valid copy of FS98 and aborts.
If I email the plane files and converter to some fine gent out there with
FS98, would they be so kind as to do the conversion?
Thanks,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: X Plane - I have one
You need a file called fsconv98.exe which converts the mdl file to FlightSim
98 format then it will work with FS98 and FS2002. The file was available
from MicroSoft FS web site, Avsim and some other flight sim sites.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Gladstone" <Ted_Gladstone(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: X Plane - I have one
>
> >>
> << The is an old Europa Monowheel model for MSFS (maybe version4 or 5)
> kicking around. That's all I have seen.
> >>
> >>
> >>Anyone know where to find this?
> >>Troy
> >>
>
> I made one several years ago for Microsoft FlightSim v5 but it won't work
> with later versions of MSFS :-(
>
> Unfortunately I can't make MSFS v5 work on my new computer but I still
have
> the Europa Aircraft files somewhere.
>
> Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin heater question |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
What's a minus temperature? I thought that was what fridges were for ;-)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Quoting Klaus Dietrich :
> only time I experienced some mist on the windshield was during
> groundoperation when all vents are closed, two poeple on board and no
> air circulation; but never in flight.
I've gone IMC at 6 ft on takeoff due to the windshield fogging up in the Europa
and have buid a demister into my aircraft as a result. I would not wish to
repeat the exercise as the aircraft that it occurred on does not have an
artificial horizon.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I am in the process of mounting my radiator and oil coolers but have not yet
dug my cowlings out of storage. I know that some have lowered the oil cooler so
that it sits below the radiator. Can somebondy who has done this please tell me
how much gap they have between the top of the oil cooler and the CD1 top plate
.
Thanks
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler position |
Am Montag, 25. Februar 2002 08:08 schrieben Sie:
> I am in the process of mounting my radiator and oil coolers but have not
> yet dug my cowlings out of storage. I know that some have lowered the oil
> cooler so that it sits below the radiator. Can somebondy who has done this
> please tell me how much gap they have between the top of the oil cooler and
> the CD1 top plate .
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
63 mm from the CD1.
Norbert
(Did you receive my question about the cap. fuel sender ?)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isabel Buckingham <101471.1531(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>...since I have FS2002, when I try and install fsconv98 it politely tells
me
that I don't have a valid copy of FS98 and aborts.
If I email the plane files and converter to some fine gent out there with
FS98, would they be so kind as to do the conversion?
<
I already have the converter, and have not yet installed FS2002, so by all
means send me the plane files
Stewart Buckingham
101471.1531(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Richard:
Have a buddy or two back you up mixing up small quantities of the stuff.
Use cake icing bags to apply the adhesive while mixiing of succeeding
batches is occurring. I did one wing in a cooler garage and the other one
I did with the heaters on for comfort. My suggestion is to go with the
cooler setup. The cooler environment allows you more time to work. I had
plenty of time in both instances. However when every thing was all set when
it came time to wipe the mess from the joints the warmer environment made
the stuff more tacky and more of a pain to clean up. 10 to 12 degrees F
makes a great difference.
Take the front and side flanges of the wing's lid and sand a good radius
along the botton edges where they will butt up against the wing's mating
feature. However don't!!! butt up the two edges. It is much much easier
to fill in a small gap than it is to sand down the lid if the leading or
outboard edge of the lid rides up on the radius.
Go throug a dry run of placing your weights and spreaders on the wing
making sure that they won't migrate or slide around on the slick surface.
I put every thing on and pushed around to make sure that that all bonding
surfaces were indeed mated and did not move further in contact. It would
be helpful to pencil in on the lid where all the bonding surfaces are
underneath.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
> Date: 2/23/02 4:54:17 AM
> Subject: bonding on wing skins
>
> Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> experience. Yuk!
>
> I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
looked
> in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
> easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
>
> Richard Iddon (533)
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Stewart" <paul-d.stewart(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Richard
Make sure your wing is empty before bonding the upper surfsce on - I've got
the photos to prove it!
Empty cartriges for mastic guns are available - found these very useful for
laying lines of redux both for the wing upper surfaces and bonding the
cockpit module in.
Regards
Paul #432
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: bonding on wing skins
> Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> experience. Yuk!
>
> I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
looked
> in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
> easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
>
> Richard Iddon (533)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Simpson" <dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Richard,
When I bonded on my top, I followed a suggestion at the time to use self
tappers, rather than pop rivets or clecos to hold the two halves together.
This has the double advantages of permitting proper control of the glue line
ie. you can see the glue through the composite and hence control the amount
of squeeze needed to spread the glue nicely without completely extruding it
from the gap; and the self tappers are easier to extract afterwards. (I
greased mine but I don't think this was essential if you take 'em out early
enough).
You'll need two people and two bottles of beer on completion. This is a
major stage, after which it looks like an aeroplane. (Actually it's really
no big deal if you prepare properly - another case of the worry being worse
than the deed)
Good luck
Dave Simpson
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: bonding on wing skins
> Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> experience. Yuk!
>
> I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
looked
> in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
> easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
>
> Richard Iddon (533)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin heater question |
You are getting bo.........(yawn)........ring Tony.
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Cabin heater question
>
> What's a minus temperature? I thought that was what fridges were for ;-)
>
> Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Richard.
I locked up the first wing with help from two friends - one mixing Redux,
the other painting the lid flanges with a thin layer of Redux - while I did
the Wing flanges with Redux/flox. The second time, they deserted me (maybe
due to the bad smell!) and I had to figure out a way to do it alone. Thus I
got the idea to the "hinge - solution".
Put the lid on in exactly the correct place. Grab a roll of some solid tape
and run a length of it all along the edge to the spar. Make sure it sticks
properly onto the surfaces - and voila, you have made yourself a hinge.
Before bending the lid open onto the forward surface of the wing, tape som
pieces of foam onto the wing surface to act as a stopper (preventing the lid
to lean too much over and thus lifting the tape). It's also not a bad idea
to cover the wing surface with paper or whatever to prevent against
"droppings".
.Now you are free to do the guyee bit and simply lock the lid back on in
exactly the right place - tearing off the tape afterwards. Piece of cake.
Hans.
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Steve Hagar" <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: Re: bonding on wing skins
> Richard:
>
> Have a buddy or two back you up mixing up small quantities of the stuff.
> Use cake icing bags to apply the adhesive while mixiing of succeeding
> batches is occurring. I did one wing in a cooler garage and the other one
> I did with the heaters on for comfort. My suggestion is to go with the
> cooler setup. The cooler environment allows you more time to work. I had
> plenty of time in both instances. However when every thing was all set
when
> it came time to wipe the mess from the joints the warmer environment made
> the stuff more tacky and more of a pain to clean up. 10 to 12 degrees F
> makes a great difference.
>
> Take the front and side flanges of the wing's lid and sand a good radius
> along the botton edges where they will butt up against the wing's mating
> feature. However don't!!! butt up the two edges. It is much much easier
> to fill in a small gap than it is to sand down the lid if the leading or
> outboard edge of the lid rides up on the radius.
>
> Go throug a dry run of placing your weights and spreaders on the wing
> making sure that they won't migrate or slide around on the slick surface.
> I put every thing on and pushed around to make sure that that all bonding
> surfaces were indeed mated and did not move further in contact. It would
> be helpful to pencil in on the lid where all the bonding surfaces are
> underneath.
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
> > Date: 2/23/02 4:54:17 AM
> > Subject: bonding on wing skins
> >
> > Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> > experience. Yuk!
> >
> > I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
> looked
> > in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using
Redux
> > easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Richard Iddon (533)
> >
> >
>
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> It's also not a bad idea to cover the wing surface with paper or
whatever to prevent against "droppings".
If you do get some on the good surface then scrape off the excess and
then use one of the citrus based solvents to remove the rest before it
sets. The same applies to clothing and cats.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
> >> It's also not a bad idea to cover the wing surface with paper or
> whatever to prevent against "droppings".
>
> If you do get some on the good surface then scrape off the excess and
> then use one of the citrus based solvents to remove the rest before it
> sets. The same applies to clothing and cats.
I was wondering if the cat might come in useful on this project! :)
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> ...The same applies to clothing and cats.
>> I was wondering if the cat might come in useful on this project! :)
Mine have. They're great for wiping up spills, prewarming foam and
inspecting the build process from time to time. 8-)
Mind you, a friend of mine who is about to take to the air in his
Cri-cri for the first time had his front oleo destroyed by cat pee so
they're not always an asset!
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Rubbing alcohol also works really well.
Erich Trombley
A028
writes:
> >> It's also not a bad idea to cover the wing surface with paper or
> whatever to prevent against "droppings".
>
> If you do get some on the good surface then scrape off the excess and
> then use one of the citrus based solvents to remove the rest before
> it
> sets. The same applies to clothing and cats.
>
> Tony
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
Peter Zutrauen wrote:
>
> Apologies to the forum for the off-topic sim diversion but....
>
> ...since I have FS2002, when I try and install fsconv98 it politely tells me
> that I don't have a valid copy of FS98 and aborts.
>
> If I email the plane files and converter to some fine gent out there with
> FS98, would they be so kind as to do the conversion?
Hi, Pete --
Converted files mostly work, depending upon version. However, for the
monowheel, 98+ MSFS versions don't seem to understand a "four-geared"
aircraft, and after loading (on runway), she just bounces around until
destruction. Attempts to fix futile. So, using Flight Shop, I
patched three wheels (trigear) onto Graham C's source code and fixed
it that way. In FS98, though, flaps down creates an enormous pitch
up, beyond trim to correct. But in FS02, it's manageable, and very
responsive little airplane, and in FS02 the engine sound's a bit more
Rotax like. Anyone's welcome to the files. Let me know.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
Thanks Stewart,
attached are the Europa files
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: X Plane - I have one
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>...since I have FS2002, when I try and install fsconv98 it politely tells
me
that I don't have a valid copy of FS98 and aborts.
If I email the plane files and converter to some fine gent out there with
FS98, would they be so kind as to do the conversion?
<
I already have the converter, and have not yet installed FS2002, so by all
means send me the plane files
Stewart Buckingham
101471.1531(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
> Thanks Stewart,
>
> attached are the Europa files
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
Peter,
You can't send attachments through the forum, you'll need to post to Stewart
privately (probably why he put his address at the end of his posting ?).
Regards,
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | riddon(at)btinternet.com |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
I'm a little confused, are you suggesting that I drill my wing skin and use self
tappers (or pop rivets or cleco's) to hold it into place whilst it sets? If
so, I presume you just fill the holes after with surface filler?
Richard Iddon.
> Richard,
>
> When I bonded on my top, I followed a suggestion at the time to use self
> tappers, rather than pop rivets or clecos to hold the two halves together.
> This has the double advantages of permitting proper control of the glue line
> ie. you can see the glue through the composite and hence control the amount
> of squeeze needed to spread the glue nicely without completely extruding it
> from the gap; and the self tappers are easier to extract afterwards. (I
> greased mine but I don't think this was essential if you take 'em out early
> enough).
>
> You'll need two people and two bottles of beer on completion. This is a
> major stage, after which it looks like an aeroplane. (Actually it's really
> no big deal if you prepare properly - another case of the worry being worse
> than the deed)
>
> Good luck
>
> Dave Simpson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
> Subject: bonding on wing skins
>
>
> > Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> > experience. Yuk!
> >
> > I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
> looked
> > in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using Redux
> > easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Richard Iddon (533)
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barahona Alonso, Francisco Javier" <javier.barahona(at)aeasa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Skyflash strobe system |
I have one on the fuselage top and other underneath. Very easy to install
and great visibility.
Javier Barahona
(Cassic 187)
-----Mensaje original-----
Enviado el: s=E1bado 23 de febrero de 2002 16:46
Para: forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
Dear Richard,
The fuse top is preferable to the fin top. A because you don't get so muh
flash on the panel and B its a lot easier to install.
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> "John Cliff" 23/02/02 14:56:21 >>>
Forwarded message (i.e. not from me) for
"Richard Holder"
*************************************************
Dear All
I intend to put a pair of Skyflash strobes on G-OWWW. One on the fin and one
underneath the fuselage.
I understand that this will involve a "modification" application to the PFA.
I'm sure it has been done before. Any of you guys ? If so, which was the
original aircraft for which application was made ? What mods are necessary
for the fuselage ? (I make it about three holes (small) with some BID to
strengthen these holes).
Was there any problem with the application ? A copy would be most useful.
Alternatively one on the fuselage top and one underneath.
Has anyone done it on the basis that it isn't a big enough modification to
faf around with the PFA procedures ?
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
I am about to put in my modification application to add an inspection hatch
in the firewall. As it has been done before I am not expecting any hassle or
delay, but I will report back !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X Plane - I have one |
LOL .... guess I was finally bitten by that 'reply to forum' auto reply
thing! First time I've seen it. Usually I never see the forum address up
top.
Sorry to the list.... it was supposed to be a private response.
I'll be more alert next time. :-)
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cliff
Subject: Re: X Plane - I have one
> Thanks Stewart,
>
> attached are the Europa files
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
Peter,
You can't send attachments through the forum, you'll need to post to
Stewart
privately (probably why he put his address at the end of his posting ?).
Regards,
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa Stage One for sale |
Dear Keith,
I'm sorry to hear you feel so bitter about company pricing policy. I'm also sorry
that you feel you have to "warn" other people against trying to sell their
part complete kits in case they also suffer at the hands of this "policy". I can
honestly assure you, and other Europa builders, that we have not "devised"
a scheme to prevent people like yourself from selling their part completed kits.
The pricing policy you refer to is the three-equal payment option. This was introduced
to address complaints from builders that, under the three stage option,
the kit became progressively more expensive thereby delaying completion.
To date, Europa have sold over 850 kits. Of these, approximately 300 are flying
- a build to completion ratio that any kit manufacturer would be proud of. We
know from our records that the majority of completed Europas are kits that were
purchased complete. Customers choosing the 3 Payment/Stage option are far more
likely to abandon their project before completing the first stage.
When the three-stage deal was dropped in favour of the three-equal payment option
(and with the benefit of hindsight) it should have been anticipated that customers
needing to sell their stage one's would find it difficult because they
had a disproportionate amount of money invested - i.e. a kit initially consisting
of mainly blue foam components. If this does happen though, all is not lost,
because, providing a new buyer is found within twelve months - the term of
price protection for the three-equal payment option - we can transfer the balance
of the agreement. Incidentally, you may be interested to know that, of the
350 plus customer survey responses received, not one person complained about
our pricing policy.
Builders reading your e-mail may get the impression there is a personal vendetta
to prevent you from selling your stage one. This is absolutely not the case.
Of the people you refer to, some have contacted me for additional pricing information
and at no stage have I dissuaded them from buying from you, in fact the
opposite is true. I want to see you sell it so that the buyer will come to
me for wing and fuselage stages. What you fail to recognise is that most of the
people who have contacted you so far actually came to me first. Would you advocate
me sending all my potential customers to you until one of them buys your
kit? Probably not. And that is the problem isn't it? where do I draw the line.
I did have one customer tell me he was going to order a kit from me - until
he saw your advert. He figured he could save money by buying your tail-kit and
the wings and fuselage from me. Obviously I didn't want to lose my potential
sale and so we agreed a small concession - certainly not the huge discount you
describe. Another of my customers looked at your kit but came back to me saying
that he wasn't convinced by the quality of the work and would prefer to do
it himself - thereby guaranteeing it was done right - his words not mine. I even
told him that, with all PFA inspections complete, he need not worry.
You refer to 'high prices' being quoted for the remainder of the kit. This is absolutely
not the case, we have a standard list price for wings and fuselage kits
and that is what has been quoted. Someone buying your completed stage one
kit at the asking price of GBP2500 would save GBP2905 off the list price of a
fast build Tri-gear kit.
I don't know how much you paid for your stage one kit because you bought it second-hand
from a private seller. What I can tell you is that when your kit was
sold to the original owner way back in 1995 the list price was GBP3378 including
VAT. That means that even if you paid the original selling price, re-selling
at GBP2500 you will only lose you GBP878. Now I know that the value of money
is relative but I hardly think it qualifies as an expensive nightmare and justification
for such a condemnation of company policy on an open forum.
You and I have discussed this before and obviously you are still not happy with
the state of things. Rather than clog up the forum with further exchanges, can
I suggest you telephone or e-mail me directly.
Yours sincerely
Mark A.Waite
Sales Director
Europa Management (International) Ltd
>>> "Keith Tallent" 02/23/02 03:49pm >>>
Hi Rich
I don't want to worry you but I have had my stage one fast build for sale
for best part of a year now (kit inlcudes everything from books and videos
right down to the digitalscales and workbench).
Incomplete stage build kits are almost impossible to sell thanks to factory
policy ( I have found out that I am not alone).
I have had no less than 7 buyers who have now pulled out after talking to
the factory (the latest one being last weekend after having the van booked
ready to pick it up).
They have either been persuaded to buy a new kit from the factory at a
heavily discounted price or been put off buying all together by high prices
being
quoted to them for the remainder of my kit.
Maybe you will be lucky.
For your info my kit price has been advertised as best offer over 2500 for
some time but I am now accepting ANYoffers.
I am also considering selling the kit piece meal as I have a buyer for the
rudder!
I have even considered a ceremonial burning with press call but I don't
really want to lower myself to that!
As you can tell I am very disillusioned by the whole thing but I wish you
luck.
Keith Tallent
Ex builder no 221
(The dream has turned into an expensive nightmare!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Butler <rich_butler2(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Europa Stage One for sale
> For Sale:
> Europa Stage One (Tail section, rudder)
> Fast-Build option (pre-skinned)
> If anyone is interested, please E-Mail me at
> Rich_Butler2(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
I have a spare (I don't think so) spring with my 914. Can someone confirm whether
there is a small spring (about 1" long and 1/4" diameter) fitted in the ferrule
of the wastegate servo which the outer of the wastegate servo cable butts
up against??
regards,
Mike Parkin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
Please ignore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> I have a spare (I don't think so) spring with my 914. Can someone
confirm whether there is a small spring (about 1" long and 1/4"
diameter) fitted in the ferrule of the wastegate servo which the outer
of the wastegate servo cable butts up against??
There is, and if you remove the wastegate cable from the servo this
little spring goes flying across the workshop and can take up to an hour
to find :-)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
"If this message gets to the list then the avnet and flyer domains should be
able to post to the from now on."
Son to mother entering upstairs bedroom:
"what did you bring me that book to read me to out of up for?"
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | pa and the Rotax 914. |
A word of warning to all builders who are considering fitting the Rotax 914 - "good
choice, well presented, join the club". However, if you complete your instrument
panel before you take delivery of your engine, be careful on what equipment
you fit in the panel above the central tunnel. The turbocharge control
unit and the wastegate servo both fit behind the panel in the area above the
tunnel. I had to reposition and rewire my altitude encoder.
Regards,
Mike Parkin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
A word of warning to all builders who are considering fitting the Rotax 914 -
"good choice, well presented, join the club". However, if you complete your
instrument panel before you take delivery of your engine, be careful on what
equipment you fit in the panel above the central tunnel. The turbocharge
control unit and the wastegate servo both fit behind the panel in the area
above the tunnel. I had to reposition and rewire my altitude encoder.
Hi,
Does one box go above the tunnel - on the starboard side - and the other box on
the firewall behind the panel? Right now, I have space on the top of the tunnel
and plan to mount the other box on the firewall where I have space for it.
I put the IK2000 engine monitor on the bottom of the stack, which only goes about
2 inches back. That allows room for this turbo gizmo on the top of the tunnel.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
Howdy,
I am installing my panel now and have a question. I am making a warning light panel
above the attitude gyro and found 6 nice small LED indicator lights. I have
green, yellow and red lights. I even cut the holes I was so happy with the
lights I found. The only problem is that when I apply the 12 volts to the yellow
light, it looks red! I can't quite figure out what is going on. It has a yellow
lend, but when illuminated, it looks almost the same as the red light. I
either need to scrap them all and go with another type, or make this work somehow.
Does anybody out there have any sources for electrical lights? Small ones are the
way I am going to save panel space.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to epoxy and
fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months and for the
last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every night after I work
on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from various chemicals and
this is the same thing. I have experimented with staying away from the airplane
and it only occurs after working on it. I think I have accumulated a fair
amount of fumes in the garage and since there is cold weather out, I have not
opened things up as I should have. I wear a respirator mask, but only when actively
sanding and laying up glass, etc.
Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this improves
when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Indicator Lights |
> Howdy,
>
> I am installing my panel now and have a question. I am making a warning
light panel above the attitude gyro and found 6 nice small LED indicator
lights. I have green, yellow and red lights. I even cut the holes I was so
happy with the lights I found. The only problem is that when I apply the 12
volts to the yellow light, it looks red! I can't quite figure out what is
going on. It has a yellow lend, but when illuminated, it looks almost the
same as the red light. I either need to scrap them all and go with another
type, or make this work somehow.
>
> Does anybody out there have any sources for electrical lights? Small ones
are the way I am going to save panel space.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Anderson
Firstly, are these LED's supplied to work directly from 12V? If so, they
will have an internal resistor, if not, have you fitted a resistor (I'd
guess so or they probably wouldn't be working at all).
When you say it's red, is it as bright as the red one?
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
I never had a problem with headaches from the epoxy (but then I don't
usually get headaches from any cause) but I have definitely become
sensitized, with the main symptom being a rash that is very itchy. Early in
the project I worked without gloves and had no problems with sensitivity but
that (in retrospect) was a big mistake. I am now nearly finished but paying
the price for my earlier carelessness.
Here in SoCal it is generally warm enough (year round) to work in the garage
with the door open but on those rare occasions when it is just a bit too
cool to do so, the epoxy attacks me rather badly. At first I assumed it was
only the hardener in the Aeropoxy but now I realize the hardener in the
Redux/Araldite is also a problem, as is the sanding dust from recently
glassed parts, and of course the dust has that wonderful glass powder that
adds to the itch.
One thing that might keep you from getting a skin rash (sorry, no
suggestions for the headaches) is to wash with soap and water, then rinse
with vinegar followed by another soap and water scrub.. The vinegar
neutralizes the stuff in the epoxy that attacks skin. The only problem with
this scheme is that the vinegar tends to sting those places already damaged
from previous exposure.
After the fact treatment is Benadryl (Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride); my
doctor said to buy the over the counter pills and double the dose to be the
equivalent of what he would prescribe. Cortaid (cortisone cream) or
Benadryl cream applied locally also helps,
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of DJA727(at)aol.com
Subject: Headaches
Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to epoxy
and fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months and
for the last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every night
after I work on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from various
chemicals and this is the same thing. I have experimented with staying away
from the airplane and it only occurs after working on it. I think I have
accumulated a fair amount of fumes in the garage and since there is cold
weather out, I have not opened things up as I should have. I wear a
respirator mask, but only when actively sanding and laying up glass, etc.
Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this
improves when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> Does one box go above the tunnel - on the starboard side - and the
other box on the firewall behind the panel?
They do. Just watch the position of the firewall mounted turbo control
unit if you intend using any long instrument (like the RMI uEncoder) in
the right hand portion of the panel or in the section above the retract
lever.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Indicator Lights |
Firstly, are these LED's supplied to work directly from 12V? If so, they
will have an internal resistor, if not, have you fitted a resistor (I'd
guess so or they probably wouldn't be working at all).
When you say it's red, is it as bright as the red one?
They are designed for 12V. It is pretty close to the same brightness as the red
one. The only difference is a slight change in hue - perhaps a little orange.
When shown to innocent bystanders, they say it is red.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Stage One for sale |
MAILER-TRACE: 0
Thank you Mark for your reply however I have corrected some of your
statements and added some further info to back up my original email.
I wish to make it clear that I do not have a "personal vendetta" with Europa
or believe they have one with me.
Far from it, I still have a soft spot for both the company and the aircraft
and if my personal circumstances had not changed I would still be building
G-SAMY (kit no 221).
I agree this forum is not the place to carry on this conversation but in
view of a few very public comments you chose to make below regarding the kit
which I still am trying to sell, I feel I need to copy a reply to the same
public forum.
Sorry to the fellow Europhiles - please delete this message now if the
thread is of no interest to you.
My corrections and comments are embedded in Mark's email below (prefixed
with KTALLENT -)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Waite <Mark@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa Stage One for sale
> Dear Keith,
>
> I'm sorry to hear you feel so bitter about company pricing policy. I'm
also sorry that you feel you have to "warn" other people against trying to
sell their part complete kits in case they also suffer at the hands of this
"policy". I can honestly assure you, and other Europa builders, that we have
not "devised" a scheme to prevent people like yourself from selling their
part completed kits.
KTALLENT > Mark I believe you have completely twisted my original email
here - of the above quotes only "policy" was in my original email (where did
"warn" and "devised" come from?). I did not say I was bitter merely
"disillusioned".
> When the three-stage deal was dropped in favour of the three-equal payment
option (and with the benefit of hindsight) it should have been anticipated
that customers needing to sell their stage one's would find it difficult
because they had a disproportionate amount of money invested - i.e. a kit
initially consisting of mainly blue foam components. If this does happen
though, all is not lost, because, providing a new buyer is found within
twelve months - the term of price protection for the three-equal payment
option - we can transfer the balance of the agreement. Incidentally, you may
be interested to know that, of the 350 plus customer survey responses
received, not one person complained about our pricing policy.
>
KTALLENT - the 12 months clause is the killer in the above policy any
builder (not buyer) will know that.
In fact your statement above more or less backs up my original email and
what I was trying to say.
> Builders reading your e-mail may get the impression there is a personal
vendetta to prevent you from selling your stage one. This is absolutely not
the case. Of the people you refer to, some have contacted me for additional
pricing information and at no stage have I dissuaded them from buying from
you, in fact the opposite is true. I want to see you sell it so that the
buyer will come to me for wing and fuselage stages.
>
KTALLENT - Do Europa have an unfinished kit section on their website - if
your statements hold true then surely the company would be actively trying
to sell these unfinished kits to get the remaining stage payments and also
get the ratio of kits sold to kits flying up?
Are sales comissions paid on initial kit sales or individual stage build
sales?
>What you fail to recognise is that most of the people who have contacted
you so far actually came to me first. Would you advocate me sending all my
potential customers to you until one of them buys your kit? Probably not.
And that is the problem isn't it? where do I draw the line. I did have one
customer tell me he was going to order a kit from me - until he saw your
advert. He figured he could save money by buying your tail-kit and the wings
and fuselage from me. Obviously I didn't want to lose my potential sale and
so we agreed a small concession - certainly not the huge discount you
describe.
>
KTALLENT - Not true - I have spent over GBP500 so far advertising my kit in
aviation magazines and on websites - I have directed ALL my prospective
buyers to the factory and also provided them with the written quote of
GBP13,945 that Toni gave me in August of 2001 for the remaining 2 stages of
the kit - some of these people have got back to me saying they were quoted
higher prices for the remaining stages so they did not wish to continue - of
course they could be lying to me.
>Another of my customers looked at your kit but came back to me saying that
he wasn't convinced by the quality of the work and would prefer to do it
himself - thereby guaranteeing it was done right - his words not mine. I
even told him that, with all PFA inspections complete, he need not worry.
>
KTALLENT - thanks for the above statement regarding my kit Mark, I don't
think it was really needed in the context of this reply on a public forum -
it is this statement that prompted my forum reply.
> You refer to 'high prices' being quoted for the remainder of the kit. This
is absolutely not the case, we have a standard list price for wings and
fuselage kits and that is what has been quoted. Someone buying your
completed stage one kit at the asking price of GBP2500 would save GBP2905
off the list price of a fast build Tri-gear kit.
>
KTALLENT - I don't understand the above statement or point you were trying
to make - all I can say is that I have a written (email) quote from
yourselves dated 07/08/01 saying the the remaining 2 stages of my kit would
be GBP13,945 - that email I have passed on to all my prospective buyers.
> I don't know how much you paid for your stage one kit because you bought
it second-hand from a private seller. What I can tell you is that when your
kit was sold to the original owner way back in 1995 the list price was
GBP3378 including VAT. That means that even if you paid the original selling
price, re-selling at GBP2500 you will only lose you GBP878. Now I know that
the value of money is relative but I hardly think it qualifies as an
expensive nightmare and justification for such a condemnation of company
policy on an open forum.
>
KTALLENT - If you pull my file you will see that in addition to the above
stage one kit purchased I also purchased from yourselves the XS upgrade
kit - approx GBP760,
in addition the kit is CAA registered - another GBP250,
workshop outfitting and tooling costs - another GBP1000,
2 years (stage 1) build time - another GBP???
Kit advertisments - another GBP500
Now GBP5500+ out of pocket may not be a lot of money to you but I can
assure you it is to me - you also forget I have not (read cannot) resell the
kit, (hence the original email) so I don't have the +GBP2500 figure you use
in your above calcs.
> You and I have discussed this before and obviously you are still not happy
with the state of things. Rather than clog up the forum with further
exchanges, can I suggest you telephone or e-mail me directly.
>
> Yours sincerely
> Mark A.Waite
> Sales Director
> Europa Management (International) Ltd
>
>
> >>> "Keith Tallent" 02/23/02 03:49pm >>>
> Hi Rich
> I don't want to worry you but I have had my stage one fast build for sale
> for best part of a year now (kit inlcudes everything from books and videos
> right down to the digitalscales and workbench).
> Incomplete stage build kits are almost impossible to sell thanks to
factory
> policy ( I have found out that I am not alone).
> I have had no less than 7 buyers who have now pulled out after talking to
> the factory (the latest one being last weekend after having the van booked
> ready to pick it up).
> They have either been persuaded to buy a new kit from the factory at a
> heavily discounted price or been put off buying all together by high
prices
> being
> quoted to them for the remainder of my kit.
> Maybe you will be lucky.
> For your info my kit price has been advertised as best offer over 2500
for
> some time but I am now accepting ANYoffers.
> I am also considering selling the kit piece meal as I have a buyer for the
> rudder!
> I have even considered a ceremonial burning with press call but I don't
> really want to lower myself to that!
>
> As you can tell I am very disillusioned by the whole thing but I wish you
> luck.
>
> Keith Tallent
> Ex builder no 221
> (The dream has turned into an expensive nightmare!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rich Butler <rich_butler2(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Europa Stage One for sale
>
>
> > For Sale:
> > Europa Stage One (Tail section, rudder)
> > Fast-Build option (pre-skinned)
> > If anyone is interested, please E-Mail me at
> > Rich_Butler2(at)hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpets/upholstery |
>Because when the firewall is called upon to become a real firewall the
>carpets serve to make a fire on both sides.
>Handling two emergencies simultaneously is often curtains (to mix drapery
>metaphors).
>The sage guidance of JAR-VLA goes against it too (I'll quote directly, in
>case you don't have a copy of this worthwhile code).
Incomplete logic IMHO.
The phenolic firewall doesn't conduct heat the way a metal one does. Metal
firewalls are sometimes useless unless backed up by Fiberfrax or similar
ceramic fabric. They won't let the flame through but they do transmit heat,
radiate it as well, as do bolts and other fittings.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>It seems that keeping fingers and feet warm enough isn't a problem in an
>Europa even in deep winter at high altitudes. But what about demisting and
>defreezing the windshield? My experiences with Robin aircraft tell me that
>at minus temperatures warm air for this purpose is a must.
>Alfred
Alfred,
I quite agree. 10 seconds after take off, with trees, buildings , mountains
around is not the best time to have a misted up windscreen.
graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
They do. Just watch the position of the firewall mounted turbo control
unit if you intend using any long instrument (like the RMI uEncoder) in
the right hand portion of the panel or in the section above the retract
lever.
I am not sure what the turbo control unit does - is it connected to wires? If so,
can it be mounted anywhere on the firewall above the bottom of the panel? Right
now, I have an ILS display in the section above the gear lever. That goes
all the way to the face of the firewall. The box on the top of the tunnel looks
like it has a cable - needing to be in a specific place.
This would be much easier if I could just get my hands on an engine!
Thanks,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> I am not sure what the turbo control unit does - is it connected to
wires?
It has a premade loom to the engine, another to the two pressure sensors
which mount firewall forward, another to the wastegate control servo and
then free wires for power, turbo disable switch and the two turbo
indicator lights. The loom to the pressure sensors is very short and
this limits the position of the TCU.
>> If so, can it be mounted anywhere on the firewall above the bottom of
the panel?
Just about but you do need to cater for the fact that the pressure
sensors are mounted fairly high up on the firewall to allow for a water
trap in one of the air lines to the sensors.
>> Right now, I have an ILS display in the section above the gear lever.
That goes all the way to the face of the firewall.
You'll get away with that by moving the TCO to starboard providing you
don't have any long instruments in the radio bay which would conflict
with it.
>> The box on the top of the tunnel looks like it has a cable - needing
to be in a specific place.
It does have a cable ... the wastegate cable. I'd keep the Wastegate
servo in the position given by Europa.
>>This would be much easier if I could just get my hands on an engine!
I picked up a 914 installation manual at Sun-n-fun a couple of years
back which helps the firewall fitout process considerably.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Carpets/upholstery |
Possibly so. But I've seen the carpets smoking during a prolonged ground
run in a Europa. The phenolic (on the inside) can become far hotter than
can be touched due merely to the close proximity of an exhaust on the other
side.This is without the insulating effect of the carpet.
The glue holding the carpet burns quite nicely too.
Duncan McFadyean
On Friday, February 22, 2002 11:02 AM, Graham Singleton
[SMTP:grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk] wrote:
> >Because when the firewall is called upon to become a real firewall the
> >carpets serve to make a fire on both sides.
> >Handling two emergencies simultaneously is often curtains (to mix
drapery
> >metaphors).
> >The sage guidance of JAR-VLA goes against it too (I'll quote directly,
in
> >case you don't have a copy of this worthwhile code).
>
> Incomplete logic IMHO.
> The phenolic firewall doesn't conduct heat the way a metal one does.
Metal
> firewalls are sometimes useless unless backed up by Fiberfrax or similar
> ceramic fabric. They won't let the flame through but they do transmit
heat,
> radiate it as well, as do bolts and other fittings.
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Simpson" <dave_simpson(at)londonweb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding on wing skins |
Richard,
I'm terribly sorry, I misread your question as relating to bonding on the
top of the fuselage. I know nothing about bonding the wings together since
mine was a wet lay up.
Dave Simpson
----- Original Message -----
From: <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: bonding on wing skins
> I'm a little confused, are you suggesting that I drill my wing skin and
use self tappers (or pop rivets or cleco's) to hold it into place whilst it
sets? If so, I presume you just fill the holes after with surface filler?
>
> Richard Iddon.
>
> > Richard,
> >
> > When I bonded on my top, I followed a suggestion at the time to use self
> > tappers, rather than pop rivets or clecos to hold the two halves
together.
> > This has the double advantages of permitting proper control of the glue
line
> > ie. you can see the glue through the composite and hence control the
amount
> > of squeeze needed to spread the glue nicely without completely extruding
it
> > from the gap; and the self tappers are easier to extract afterwards. (I
> > greased mine but I don't think this was essential if you take 'em out
early
> > enough).
> >
> > You'll need two people and two bottles of beer on completion. This is a
> > major stage, after which it looks like an aeroplane. (Actually it's
really
> > no big deal if you prepare properly - another case of the worry being
worse
> > than the deed)
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > Dave Simpson
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard Iddon <riddon(at)btinternet.com>
> > Subject: bonding on wing skins
> >
> >
> > > Now I know what sticky stuff really is! Just had my first 'Redux'
> > > experience. Yuk!
> > >
> > > I am hoping to bond the top skins on to my XS wings next week. I've
> > looked
> > > in the archive but any further hints on how to make mixing and using
Redux
> > > easier and/or bonding the skins on would be much appreciated.
> > >
> > > Richard Iddon (533)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
When I get an infrequent headache, it's usually from the Kerosene heater that I'm
using to keep my shop warm. I've used a respirator during all my layups and
use the "Invisible Gloves" cream on my hands. You may be getting a reaction
through your hands?
Cleve
>
> Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to epoxy
and fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months and for
the last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every night after I
work on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from various chemicals
and this is the same thing. I have experimented with staying away from the airplane
and it only occurs after working on it. I think I have accumulated a fair
amount of fumes in the garage and since there is cold weather out, I have not
opened things up as I should have. I wear a respirator mask, but only when
actively sanding and laying up glass, etc.
>
> Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this improves
when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Anderson
> A227
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: I have Heat/Defrost |
Nigel,
I too am interested in the cowl flaps. Would you please send me some photos?
Thanks,
Cleve Lee
A198 MonoXS
Detroit, MI
On Fri, 22 February 2002, DJA727(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I have fitted inflight adjustable cowl flaps. I have arranged them so that
> they do not have to be connected/disconnected during cowl fitting/removal.
> If anyone is interested I will e-mail the photos.
>
> Nigel Charles
>
>
> I am very interested in seeing that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Anderson
> dja727(at)aol.com
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jaussi" <jaussi(at)easilink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
The 914 Installation manual can be downloaded from the web at www.rotax.com.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony S. Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Europa and the Rotax 914.
>
>
>>> I am not sure what the turbo control unit does - is it connected to
>wires?
>
>It has a premade loom to the engine, another to the two pressure sensors
>which mount firewall forward, another to the wastegate control servo and
>then free wires for power, turbo disable switch and the two turbo
>indicator lights. The loom to the pressure sensors is very short and
>this limits the position of the TCU.
>
>>> If so, can it be mounted anywhere on the firewall above the bottom of
>the panel?
>
>Just about but you do need to cater for the fact that the pressure
>sensors are mounted fairly high up on the firewall to allow for a water
>trap in one of the air lines to the sensors.
>
>>> Right now, I have an ILS display in the section above the gear lever.
>That goes all the way to the face of the firewall.
>
>You'll get away with that by moving the TCO to starboard providing you
>don't have any long instruments in the radio bay which would conflict
>with it.
>
>>> The box on the top of the tunnel looks like it has a cable - needing
>to be in a specific place.
>
>It does have a cable ... the wastegate cable. I'd keep the Wastegate
>servo in the position given by Europa.
>
>>>This would be much easier if I could just get my hands on an engine!
>
>I picked up a 914 installation manual at Sun-n-fun a couple of years
>back which helps the firewall fitout process considerably.
>
>Tony
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jaussi" <jaussi(at)easilink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
Sorry, I have to correct the last neassage after doing a quick check. The
site is not Rotax.com, but kodiakbs.com. The 912 installation manual is
there, but for the 914 all that is available there are the parts,
maintenance and operator's manuals. The parts manual could help answer a
lot of questions as it can give a pretty accurate picture of what is there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jaussi <jaussi(at)easilink.com>
Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Europa and the Rotax 914.
>The 914 Installation manual can be downloaded from the web at
www.rotax.com.
>-----Original Message-----
From: Tony S. Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
>Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 5:31 PM
>Subject: Re: Europa and the Rotax 914.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>> I am not sure what the turbo control unit does - is it connected to
>>wires?
>>
>>It has a premade loom to the engine, another to the two pressure sensors
>>which mount firewall forward, another to the wastegate control servo and
>>then free wires for power, turbo disable switch and the two turbo
>>indicator lights. The loom to the pressure sensors is very short and
>>this limits the position of the TCU.
>>
>>>> If so, can it be mounted anywhere on the firewall above the bottom of
>>the panel?
>>
>>Just about but you do need to cater for the fact that the pressure
>>sensors are mounted fairly high up on the firewall to allow for a water
>>trap in one of the air lines to the sensors.
>>
>>>> Right now, I have an ILS display in the section above the gear lever.
>>That goes all the way to the face of the firewall.
>>
>>You'll get away with that by moving the TCO to starboard providing you
>>don't have any long instruments in the radio bay which would conflict
>>with it.
>>
>>>> The box on the top of the tunnel looks like it has a cable - needing
>>to be in a specific place.
>>
>>It does have a cable ... the wastegate cable. I'd keep the Wastegate
>>servo in the position given by Europa.
>>
>>>>This would be much easier if I could just get my hands on an engine!
>>
>>I picked up a 914 installation manual at Sun-n-fun a couple of years
>>back which helps the firewall fitout process considerably.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Indicator Lights |
From: <DJA727(at)aol.com>
>
> Firstly, are these LED's supplied to work directly from 12V? If so, they
> will have an internal resistor, if not, have you fitted a resistor (I'd
> guess so or they probably wouldn't be working at all).
>
> When you say it's red, is it as bright as the red one?
>
>
> They are designed for 12V. It is pretty close to the same brightness as
the red one. The only difference is a slight change in hue - perhaps a
little orange. When shown to innocent bystanders, they say it is red.
>
> Dave
That being the case, I reckon you should take them back because they aren't
suitable for the purpose they were supplied for.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Email 'Read receipts'. |
Dear Rob,
When I receive an email from you via the Europa forum, I am asked to
confirm receipt of the email by means of a pop-up box. This is
inconvenient for me. Would it be possible for you to turn off this
facility when writing emails to the forum ?
Just in case you're unfamiliar with the feature I enclose instructions.
Often I find that options and settings on mail tools are confusing !
If you are using Microsoft Outlook 2002 (V10?) or similar, this can be
achieved by performing the following:
On the Standard toolbar at the top of Outlook.
Select 'Tools'
Under 'Tools', Select 'Options'
Select 'Preferences'
Select 'Email options' tab
Select 'Tracking options'
Un-tick 'Read Receipt' and 'Delivery Receipt' options
Confirm this change, using 'ok', etc
Regards,
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Headaches
I never had a problem with headaches from the epoxy (but then I don't
usually get headaches from any cause) but I have definitely become
sensitized, with the main symptom being a rash that is very itchy.
Early in the project I worked without gloves and had no problems with
sensitivity but that (in retrospect) was a big mistake. I am now nearly
finished but paying the price for my earlier carelessness.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
Mike, I found the little spring sitting on my bench after I had done the
"final fitting !!" of the turbo servo and the instrument panel which of
course totally buries it. It then took most of a week to sort it out. I
pleaded with various Rotax experts to tell me that it really wasn't
necessary at least until the next time I positively had to take the panel
off, but noone would give that advice. The situation was eventually saved by
the discovery that I could get at the servo through the hole that the Flydat
sits in. It seems that the spring gives some softness or flexibility to the
action of the servo closure of the wastegate and without it the cable will
stretch and the wastegate closure become incomplete. If it is not too late I
suggest you plan your panel to give simple access to the servo area. David
Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Parkin <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Rotax 914
I have a spare (I don't think so) spring with my 914. Can someone confirm
whether there is a small spring (about 1" long and 1/4" diameter) fitted in
the ferrule of the wastegate servo which the outer of the wastegate servo
cable butts up against??
regards,
Mike Parkin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | t Posting Problems |
As you may have seen, following more work at Avnet it is once more believed to
be possible for subscribers whose addresses are in the form xxxxx(at)avnet.co.uk
or xxxxx(at)flyer.co.uk to post messages to this forum (without using the
work-around I put in place a few days ago, that is).
Would one of you like to try it (and let me know if it fails) ?
Ta.
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Atkinson" <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com> |
Dave
I have had similar effects when I have been too lazy to wear my mask. I need
to wear mine whenever I am in the garage within 24 hours of doing a layup.
Check that you always get a good seal between the mask and your face. After
I have been wearing mine for 30 mins I have a neat red imprint line around
my face. The most difficult area to seal is around the nose. The bigger your
conk the worse it gets. I am not implying anything by the way. :-)
At the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you are using the right
filter(s). I have 2 sets one for fine dust and one for nasty chemicals.
Hope this helps
Paul
> > Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to
epoxy and fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months
and for the last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every
night after I work on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from
various chemicals and this is the same thing. I have experimented with
staying away from the airplane and it only occurs after working on it. I
think I have accumulated a fair amount of fumes in the garage and since
there is cold weather out, I have not opened things up as I should have. I
wear a respirator mask, but only when actively sanding and laying up glass,
etc.
> >
> > Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this
improves when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave Anderson
> > A227
>
>
> ___________________________________________________
> The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
> Better! Faster! More Powerful!
> 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
> http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Atkinson" <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com> |
Has anyone fitted some means of securing baggage in the baggage bay.
I want to fit some that will secure baggage on the rear ledge of the bay.
Any ideas and sources of parts would be most welcome as would advice about
strengthening the fiberglass around the securing points.
Thanks in advance
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa Stage One for sale |
Keith - If it's any help you are most welcome to put your part finished kit
in the for sale part of my humble web site (FOC of course). By all means
send me a tiny jpg and brief description and I'll put it on. Currently the
For Sale part appears only on the www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown site but we'll
add it to www.Ban-bi.com in due course.
Don't forget you're all invited to the first Ban-bi Fly in at Old Sarum on
the 14th April. Free landings for all Ban-bis and Europas.
best regards
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tallent" <ktallent(at)avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa Stage One for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi folks,
is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding areas
who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage restraints |
Paul, A simple solution is to put some little ring bolts or flanged alloy
strips either side of the bay, with a little bit of local reinforcement so
that you can clip in bungy type octopus baggage straps, which would be
enough to stop things moving around in flight even if insufficient to stop
it moving if you collided with something solid at speed. David Joyce 402
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Atkinson <Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Baggage restraints
> Has anyone fitted some means of securing baggage in the baggage bay.
> I want to fit some that will secure baggage on the rear ledge of the bay.
> Any ideas and sources of parts would be most welcome as would advice about
> strengthening the fiberglass around the securing points.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Paul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Cut and Polishes. |
Hi! All.
Someone recently posted a message about the polish subject and sought to
pass on good advice on this subject. I'm no authority but it prompted me to
take the question a little further than the "two pack or not question" since
there is two pack paints of cellulose and polyurethane and may be even more
.
I have PRC-Desoto (was Courtaulds) CA 40,000 with UV protection in the top
coat and I knew it was "two pack" because it had an "activator" for it.
Having spoken to them the CA 40,000 is a Polyurethane two pack and should
NOT have "T" cut applied to it. They recommend G3 Farecla from Brown
Brothers ,Motor Factors. On speaking with them they wouldn't use "T" cut on
any kind of paint.
I realise this message may duplicate the original one but since I had
already deleted it I'm hoping you don't mind .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Email 'Read receipts'. |
> Dear Rob,
>
> When I receive an email from you via the Europa forum, I am asked to
> confirm receipt of the email by means of a pop-up box. This is
> inconvenient for me. Would it be possible for you to turn off this
> facility when writing emails to the forum ?
Your email reader may have an option to ignore such requests.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christian Folco <christian.folco(at)jrc.it> |
Living in the southeast London, the best, Go to france buy two packs of beer, a
dozen bottle of wine in supermarket and few bottle of aceton in a DIY shop....
easy
Christian
KarkelB(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi folks,
> is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding areas
> who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
> drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
> that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
>
> regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
Hi, just sharing an experience. I was using acetone, sold here in local
hardware stores in one gallon cans. I had gone through about three gallons
when a local boat builder told me to switch to MEK. MEK dissolves epoxy but
doesn't evaporate as fast. You can leave your brush and squeegee in a can of
it for use next time. I still use acetone to wipe parts before powder coating
and small cleanup jobs. The MEK has cut my chemical usage way down. In the
time it took me to use three gallons of acetone, I've used 1 quart of MEK.
SteveD.
A217
M.E.K. Methyl Ethyl Ketone
"E-Z M.E.K. is very strong solvent with a medium to slow evaporation rate.
Suitable as a thin and or cleaner for specialty paints, epoxy, fiberglass,
and polyester resins."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa and the Rotax 914. |
You'll get away with that by moving the TCO to starboard providing you
don't have any long instruments in the radio bay which would conflict
with it.
#### I do have some long radios there, but they don't go all the way up. I suppose
I need to know how big this TCO is. You probably already told me, but I don't
remember.
this is a little like putting a jig saw puzzle together withouth knowing what the
final picture looks like. There are continual surprises along the way!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Indicator Lights |
That being the case, I reckon you should take them back because they aren't
suitable for the purpose they were supplied for.
I did take them back and have come up with a solution. I bought some real yellow
ones and will replace the one in the bezel with the real yellow one. I will
just have to add a resistor to allow them to run off 12 volts. Even the people
in the store were in agreement - yellow looked red.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
Karim,
Good timing! I need to get some, and was going to visit my local supplier in
Wallingford, Oxon - believe they may do smaller quantities. What volume is
40k? Will check and get back to you - if need be, are you interested in
collaborating with a smaller order from there?
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of KarkelB(at)aol.com
Sent: 26 February 2002 12:36
Subject: Re: acetone
Hi folks,
is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding
areas
who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cripps, David" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com> |
SP Systems (the Ampreg epoxy people) manufacture a couple of acetone substitutes:
SP Solvent A is a ketone blend (including MEK), which is good for cleaning tools
that are sticky with uncured epoxy and surfaces prior to bonding (but it does
eat blue foam so watch out!). It is not as fast at evaporating as acetone (as
another correspondent to this forum indicated) so you tend to use less of it.
SP Solvent B is a very slow evaporating epoxy solvent which is good for large tool
clean ups (such as resin impregnation machines) but is not good for cleaning
surfaces.
Both can be obtained in 1, 5 or 25l containers from either:
Blakes Marine Paints (who may have a marine chandlery stockist close to you). Tel:
02380 636373/610101(fax). blakes_sales(at)uk.hempel.com
or
Marineware: 02380 330208/339667(fax). marineware(at)compuserve.com
Alternatively the chain of Strand Glassfibre (Scott Bader) shops sell acetone in,
I think, 5l sizes. Sorry, don't have a number but there's an outlet in Portsmouth
who may be able to direct you to somewhere closer.
David
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: acetone
Hi folks,
is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding areas
who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
regards Karim.
**********************************************************************************************
All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions)
of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with
reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions.
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
or retain this message or any part of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Mansfeld" <ian_mansfeld(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "T" Cut and Polishes. |
Bob,
Mine was the original post, and I don't mind a bit if you repeat it! The
short version was, as you say, 'don't use T-cut'.
Ian Mansfeld, G-BVVP.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: "T" Cut and Polishes.
> Hi! All.
> Someone recently posted a message about the polish subject and sought to
> pass on good advice on this subject. I'm no authority but it prompted me
to
> take the question a little further than the "two pack or not question"
since
> there is two pack paints of cellulose and polyurethane and may be even
more
> .
> I have PRC-Desoto (was Courtaulds) CA 40,000 with UV protection in the top
> coat and I knew it was "two pack" because it had an "activator" for it.
> Having spoken to them the CA 40,000 is a Polyurethane two pack and should
> NOT have "T" cut applied to it. They recommend G3 Farecla from Brown
> Brothers ,Motor Factors. On speaking with them they wouldn't use "T" cut
on
> any kind of paint.
> I realise this message may duplicate the original one but since I had
> already deleted it I'm hoping you don't mind .
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
Thanks David. How useful this forum is, it has saved me so much work after
reading advice from guys ahead of me!!
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Re: Rotax 914
> Mike, I found the little spring sitting on my bench after I had done the
> "final fitting !!" of the turbo servo and the instrument panel which of
> course totally buries it. It then took most of a week to sort it out. I
> pleaded with various Rotax experts to tell me that it really wasn't
> necessary at least until the next time I positively had to take the panel
> off, but noone would give that advice. The situation was eventually saved
by
> the discovery that I could get at the servo through the hole that the
Flydat
> sits in. It seems that the spring gives some softness or flexibility to
the
> action of the servo closure of the wastegate and without it the cable will
> stretch and the wastegate closure become incomplete. If it is not too late
I
> suggest you plan your panel to give simple access to the servo area.
David
> Joyce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Parkin <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com>
> Subject: Rotax 914
>
>
> I have a spare (I don't think so) spring with my 914. Can someone confirm
> whether there is a small spring (about 1" long and 1/4" diameter) fitted
in
> the ferrule of the wastegate servo which the outer of the wastegate servo
> cable butts up against??
>
> regards,
>
> Mike Parkin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "106305.2117(at)compuserve.com" <106305.2117(at)compuserve.com> |
You should be able to buy small bottles from Boots ?!
Regards
Trevor
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jeremy Davey jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:58:44 -0000
Subject: Re: acetone
Karim,
Good timing! I need to get some, and was going to visit my local supplier in
Wallingford, Oxon - believe they may do smaller quantities. What volume is
40k? Will check and get back to you - if need be, are you interested in
collaborating with a smaller order from there?
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of KarkelB(at)aol.com
Sent: 26 February 2002 12:36
Subject: Re: acetone
Hi folks,
is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding
areas
who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avnet Posting Problems |
| From: | Richard Holder <rholder(at)avnet.co.uk> |
As requested - a test
> From: "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:06:38 -0000
> Subject: Avnet Posting Problems
>
> As you may have seen, following more work at Avnet it is once more believed to
> be possible for subscribers whose addresses are in the form xxxxx(at)avnet.co.uk
> or xxxxx(at)flyer.co.uk to post messages to this forum (without using the
> work-around I put in place a few days ago, that is).
>
> Would one of you like to try it (and let me know if it fails) ?
>
> Ta.
>
> John Cliff
> Europa Forum minder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Mansfeld" <ian_mansfeld(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "T" Cut and Polishes. |
Bob,
I sent the original, and if it saves you your paint it was worth it. To sum
up again, never use T-cut. On anything.
Ian G-BVVP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: "T" Cut and Polishes.
> Hi! All.
> Someone recently posted a message about the polish subject and sought to
> pass on good advice on this subject. I'm no authority but it prompted me
to
> take the question a little further than the "two pack or not question"
since
> there is two pack paints of cellulose and polyurethane and may be even
more
> .
> I have PRC-Desoto (was Courtaulds) CA 40,000 with UV protection in the top
> coat and I knew it was "two pack" because it had an "activator" for it.
> Having spoken to them the CA 40,000 is a Polyurethane two pack and should
> NOT have "T" cut applied to it. They recommend G3 Farecla from Brown
> Brothers ,Motor Factors. On speaking with them they wouldn't use "T" cut
on
> any kind of paint.
> I realise this message may duplicate the original one but since I had
> already deleted it I'm hoping you don't mind .
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> You should be able to buy small bottles from Boots ?!
Yeah, they call it "nail varnish remover", but it works out expensive:)
Just out of interest, what sort of price is acetone?
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
I'll add a caution here about MEK which hasn't been voiced on the group
for a few years. This is an extremely strong solvent and, like acetone,
is capable of passing through the pores of the skin.
Effects of methyl ethyl ketone on human health depend on how much MEK is
present and the length and frequency of
exposure. Effects also depend on the health of a person or the
condition of the environment when exposure occurs.
Breathing MEK for short periods of time, such as when painting in a
poorly vented area, can adversely affect the nervous system. Effects
range from headaches, dizziness, nausea, and numbness in fingers and
toes to unconsciousness. MEK vapour irritates the eyes, the nose, and
the throat. Direct, prolonged contact with liquid methyl ethyl ketone
irritates the skin and damages the eyes.
When using MEK (or acetone) always wear protective gloves and use a face
mask and goggles. Never use MEK or acetone to clean your hands.
Build safe.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
> Hi, just sharing an experience. I was using acetone, sold here in local
> hardware stores in one gallon cans. I had gone through about three gallons
> when a local boat builder told me to switch to MEK. MEK dissolves epoxy
but
> doesn't evaporate as fast. You can leave your brush and squeegee in a can
of
> it for use next time. I still use acetone to wipe parts before powder
coating
> and small cleanup jobs. The MEK has cut my chemical usage way down. In the
> time it took me to use three gallons of acetone, I've used 1 quart of MEK.
>
> SteveD.
> A217
>
> M.E.K. Methyl Ethyl Ketone
> "E-Z M.E.K. is very strong solvent with a medium to slow evaporation rate.
> Suitable as a thin and or cleaner for specialty paints, epoxy, fiberglass,
> and polyester resins."
OK, Steve,
....but please take all precautions regarding inhaling and
daubing on skin. It is a proven carcenogenic in larger doses, and has a
cumualtive effect. i.e: don't sniff in enclosed workshops, nor let it
evaporate near air ducting, nor wipe hands clean of epoxy with it. It does
have a lifetime effect, something like hardener.
Cheers and good luck
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stefan Ridderheim" <stefan(at)ridderheim.com> |
Turn to a local boat chandler, they sell it dirt cheap in small
quantities.
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: acetone
> You should be able to buy small bottles from Boots ?!
Yeah, they call it "nail varnish remover", but it works out expensive:)
Just out of interest, what sort of price is acetone?
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Stewart" <paul-d.stewart(at)virgin.net> |
A local composite manufacturer 'Derby Mouldings' sold me a 1/2 gallon for 5
so long as I take my own container. They have been very helpful with stuff
like small amounts of mould release wax and barrier cream.
Paul Stewart #432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
----- Original Message -----
From: <106305.2117(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: acetone
> You should be able to buy small bottles from Boots ?!
>
> Regards
> Trevor
Right-O,
....but a chemical buddy said "don't get it anywhere you are
mixing epoxy. The drugstores (are they still apothecaries?) are prone to
order large amounts for rebottling (bottom line stuff), but the material is
degraded with oils and other contaminants from its reclaiming history".
If I use the common kind for cleaning tools etc, I ensure every
surface is scrubbed with soapy good stuff and dried to offload any bad poo.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Yeah right! Like we can only buy aspirins in very small quantities!
Nail varnish remover usually has lanolin or some other oil in it; not what's required!
MEK is at the top of the hierarchy (ahead of acetone ) of solvents good at precleaning
epoxy substrates; alcohol is close to the bottom.
The cheapest in B'ham is ?7 / 5litres form molding material suppliers.
Duncan McFadyean
On Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:10 PM, 106305.2117(at)compuserve.com [SMTP:106305.2117(at)compuserve.com]
wrote:
> You should be able to buy small bottles from Boots ?!
>
> Regards
> Trevor
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Jeremy Davey jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:58:44 -0000
> Subject: Re: acetone
>
>
>
> Karim,
>
> Good timing! I need to get some, and was going to visit my local supplier in
> Wallingford, Oxon - believe they may do smaller quantities. What volume is
> 40k? Will check and get back to you - if need be, are you interested in
> collaborating with a smaller order from there?
>
> Regards,
> Jeremy
>
> Jeremy Davey
> Europa XS monowheel 537M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of KarkelB(at)aol.com
> Sent: 26 February 2002 12:36
> To: forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: acetone
>
> Hi folks,
> is there anyone in the southeast london or the surrounding
> areas
> who would want to share the cost of acetone . Its sold about five minutes
> drive from my den. They only sell it in 20kg(40lbs) drums and i don't need
> that much.Whoever is interested e-mail me.
>
> regards Karim.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Baggage restraints |
When I did the baggage bay mod I left 1" of the original rear bulkhead in
place from half height downwards. Into this vestigial flange I bonded light
alloy rings (sawn off from a tube) with local uni reinforcing in place of
the exposed PVC foam core material. A strap can be extended between the
rings on each side of the cockpit. The strap serves more of a marker behind
which heavy objects should not be placed (CG considerations) and to stop
items falling backwards rather than forwards.
Duncan mcFadyean
On Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:17 AM, Paul Atkinson
[SMTP:Paul.Atkinson321(at)btopenworld.com] wrote:
> Has anyone fitted some means of securing baggage in the baggage bay.
> I want to fit some that will secure baggage on the rear ledge of the
bay.
> Any ideas and sources of parts would be most welcome as would advice
about
> strengthening the fiberglass around the securing points.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Paul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
I agree with the cautionary comments about solvents. A precaution to the group.
I have some very devastating person experience with solvent's effects on the body
and all I can say is handle that stuff as if it were extremely poisonous. It
is! It can have life threatening effects, and I am now here on this earth through
a set of miracles. Be careful!
Dave
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: acetone, MEK & chemicals in general |
> When using MEK (or acetone) always wear protective gloves and use a face
> mask and goggles. Never use MEK or acetone to clean your hands.
I know acetone is bad stuff, but I had to help someone wash their face with
it after an accident with a photo-resist - acetone was the only thing that
would get it off and it had to be removed quickly. Mind you... he's a bit
of a strange person, maybe this incident explains it.
> Build safe.
Too right. Chemicals are something a lot of people take for granted, but
should be treated with utmost respect. I worked in a university chemistry
department for years (and still have my web pages there) and know the bad
things about a lot of chemicals - those I don't know at least a little bit
about, I avoid. Everyone should read the instructions and accident
procedures details supplied with chemicals. As an idea of the severity of
some chemicals, I have worked with stuff that passes through the skin and
rots the bones!
When using acetone/MEK/petrol, make sure you've got a good (and suitable)
fire extinguisher handy and make sure you know how to use it- I've seen the
effects of an acetone 'explosion' and the poor bloke ended up in hospital
for 3 months followed by more surgery for over a year.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
>...well near my place its 40 for a 25ltr drum. Don't need all that,
besides
>my garage is beneath someone's house. Abit weary of storing it in such a
>place... time bomb!!
>
> karim.
It might be worth checking the law on storage of such chemicals in private
houses/garages.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
>the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
(1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest to me
a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
(2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a separate
atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the humidity
in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
instructions).
regards
Rowland
| Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
| ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
Hi all,
I recollect an accident report from Canada where a composite aircraft
crashed due delaminating. The investigation revealed that the builder had
been using a Kerosene heater to keep his shop warm during the curing phase.
Apparently this led to a deposit on the surface which ultimately caused the
delaminating. So in short, Kerosene heater's are probably not a great
idea.
I did not read this accident repost first hand, perhaps someone else on the
forum did and my be able to add more detail
Regards, Paul (363)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil(at)clara.net>
Subject: Re: Headaches
>
> >the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
>
> Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
>
> (1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest to me
> a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
>
> (2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a separate
> atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the humidity
> in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
> instructions).
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
>
>
> | Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
> | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Paul:
This happened at my EAA chapter in Hamilton ON - but lots of
years ago.
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: Re: Headaches
> Hi all,
>
> I recollect an accident report from Canada where a composite aircraft
> crashed due delaminating. The investigation revealed that the builder had
> been using a Kerosene heater to keep his shop warm during the curing
phase.
> Apparently this led to a deposit on the surface which ultimately caused
the
> delaminating. So in short, Kerosene heater's are probably not a great
> idea.
>
> I did not read this accident repost first hand, perhaps someone else on
the
> forum did and my be able to add more detail
>
> Regards, Paul (363)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil(at)clara.net>
> Subject: Re: Headaches
>
>
> >
> > >the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
> >
> > Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
> >
> > (1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest to me
> > a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
> >
> > (2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a separate
> > atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the humidity
> > in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
> > instructions).
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Rowland
> >
> >
> > | Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
> > | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch> |
In view of the poisonous nature of acetone and MEK, I always use concentrated vinager
for cleaning tools instead of acetone or MEK: Works great, is very cheap,
no poisonous effects to men and environment. We buy it here in Switzerland
as a houshold cleaning item. For cleaning surfaces before bonding, acetone or
MEK is unfortunatly a must.
Alfred,
#097 Monowheel XS 912S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Sue" <billandsueb(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
I agree with Alfred over the use of Vinegar- although it is less effective
than MEK on epoxy that has started to cure it is fine for cleaning up
uncured epoxy and we (Sue and I) just chuck our brushes, scissors etc in a
large bottle of clear pickling vinegar (from local supermarket) as we tidy
up after a layup.
You can splash vinegar about as much as you like and we both feel a great
deal safer with it!
We do however still use a respirator/gloves/barrier cream in deference to
the epoxy itself.
In the UK your supplier (of MEK, Acetone resin or whatever) will provide you
with a set of safety data sheets on request (the COSHH -Care of Substances
Hazardous to Health- regulations require it). These give clear guidance on
handling and health precautions.
For instance, SP systems (who supply the resin in the UK) faxed me a copy of
the safety data sheets for Araldite 420 B (redux) and the Ampreg 20 resin
and hardener.
Rather everyone asking them to fax a copy, perhaps this is something for the
list support site?
Bill
(Trigear 465)
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: acetone
In view of the poisonous nature of acetone and MEK, I always use
concentrated vinager for cleaning tools instead of acetone or MEK: Works
great, is very cheap, no poisonous effects to men and environment. We buy it
here in Switzerland as a houshold cleaning item. For cleaning surfaces
before bonding, acetone or MEK is unfortunatly a must.
Alfred,
#097 Monowheel XS 912S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
Bottled gas heaters also give off large amounts of water. I only use
electric heating in my workshop.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
Subject: Re: Headaches
> Hi all,
>
> I recollect an accident report from Canada where a composite aircraft
> crashed due delaminating. The investigation revealed that the builder had
> been using a Kerosene heater to keep his shop warm during the curing
phase.
> Apparently this led to a deposit on the surface which ultimately caused
the
> delaminating. So in short, Kerosene heater's are probably not a great
> idea.
>
> I did not read this accident repost first hand, perhaps someone else on
the
> forum did and my be able to add more detail
>
> Regards, Paul (363)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil(at)clara.net>
> Subject: Re: Headaches
>
>
> >
> > >the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
> >
> > Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
> >
> > (1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest to me
> > a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
> >
> > (2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a separate
> > atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the humidity
> > in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
> > instructions).
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Rowland
> >
> >
> > | Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
> > | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> Bottled gas heaters also give off large amounts of water. I only use
> electric heating in my workshop.
Any flame type heater in a workshop is a no-no. As well as seeing the
results of an acetone explosion, I was once in a workshop with a gas fired
heater and a car with a leak in the fuel system. The petrol vapour ignited
and my pants almost changed colour. Fortunatly we had a fire extinguisher
and the only damage was to the plastic injector feed pipes.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
I also agree that kerosine heaters are a bad idea. As they burn they
exhaust oil vapour that clings to everything, including the surfaces
you are about to lay-up to. Infact, if you want to use anything other
than electricity, then use a gas heater thats heat source is entirely
isolated from the workshop. We used a balanced flue gas hot air
blower heater that by its virtue, had no way of ignighting anything
within the workshop. All it does is blow warm air recycled from
within the workshop. It worked well for 4 years until we outstayed
our welcome at the owners house. (but that's another story.
On the subject of bottled gas heaters, they are dangerous in my
opinion. Firstly they deposit vast quantities of water into the room
you are trying to warm and dry, and secondly, the exhaust fumes are
deadly. I nearly died a few years ago as a result of one of these
heaters. I only survived because as I passed out, I fell againsed a
door pushing it open. The fresh air coming up the stairs revived me.
If I had been another foot inside the room, I guess that I wouldn't
be here now
They are counterproductive anyhow. You have to have such a large vent
to get rid of the carbon monoxide, that you use most of the gas
heating the surrounding town and not your room!! Remember too that
the body will absorb the Carbon monoxide in preference to oxygen.
Ed
Quoting Fergus Kyle :
> Paul:
> This happened at my EAA chapter in Hamilton ON - but
lots
> of
> years ago.
> Ferg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
> Subject: Re: Headaches
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recollect an accident report from Canada where a composite
> aircraft
> > crashed due delaminating. The investigation revealed that the
builder
> had
> > been using a Kerosene heater to keep his shop warm during the
curing
> phase.
> > Apparently this led to a deposit on the surface which ultimately
> caused
> the
> > delaminating. So in short, Kerosene heater's are probably not a
> great
> > idea.
> >
> > I did not read this accident repost first hand, perhaps someone
else
> on
> the
> > forum did and my be able to add more detail
> >
> > Regards, Paul (363)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil(at)clara.net>
> > Subject: Re: Headaches
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
> > >
> > > Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
> > >
> > > (1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest
to
> me
> > > a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
> > >
> > > (2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a
> separate
> > > atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the
> humidity
> > > in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
> > > instructions).
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Rowland
> > >
> > >
> > > | Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
> > > | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> > >
>
_
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
_
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
>
>
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup/////////////////
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>
> > Bottled gas heaters also give off large amounts of water. I only use
> > electric heating in my workshop.
>
Hmmmm: I use a bottle gas heater (390,000 BTU) because it's the only thing
that will cope with the volume of the (un-insulated) workshop. (the
laminating room is insulated, and maintains 70F in mid winter on electric
heating) - however, I use the gas heater to initially warm the air and parts
up to working temp.
Sometimes very low temperatures prevent me from working: the roof retains
moisture that freezes and then melts, raining inside the workshop (so I
don't bother on those rare occasions) but generally the increased
temperature more than compensates for any extra moisture introduced: the
humidity drops dramatically, and in fact my worst (also very
occasional)problem is high temps and high humidity - then even a fairly
large dehumidifier can't cope with the airflow through the building.
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
For anyone in NW UK Glasplies in Southport sell acetone in 25litre drum for
21 +vat.
Richard Iddon 533 (nearly finished my wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave
I have had similar effects when I have been too lazy to wear my mask. I need
to wear mine whenever I am in the garage within 24 hours of doing a layup.
Check that you always get a good seal between the mask and your face. After
I have been wearing mine for 30 mins I have a neat red imprint line around
my face. The most difficult area to seal is around the nose. The bigger your
conk the worse it gets. I am not implying anything by the way. :-)
At the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you are using the right
filter(s). I have 2 sets one for fine dust and one for nasty chemicals.
Hope this helps
Paul
Paul,
It does help - Thanks. The 24 hour rule is one I have not been complying with.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | l plate Firewall problem |
Hi all
We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit module,
and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
delivered with the kit.
Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back into
the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to go
straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is not
meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a different
position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I had
had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a solution?
Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
Regards
Eddie
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n9zes(at)execpc.com |
We insulated our 2-1/2 car garage, added drywall over the studs, and
installed a vented Modine "Hot Dawg" heater. It's a low profile
residential garage heater, 45,000 BTU, and can use either natural or
LP gas. It's super compact and heats the garage from 50 to 70 deg.F
in about 10 minutes. With all the insulation (R-13 walls, R-39
ceiling, and R-8 garage door), the garage stays pretty warm all by
itself during this admittedly pathetic Wisconsin winter. I don't
think we've hardly been into the single digits here.
Now if I could actually find TIME to work on the plane, all would be
set. I'm spending half my life at our facility in Holland enjoying
Dutch beer, Dutch coffee, Dutch chocolate, and rain.
Chris
A159
>
> >
> > > Bottled gas heaters also give off large amounts of water. I only
use
> > > electric heating in my workshop.
> >
> Hmmmm: I use a bottle gas heater (390,000 BTU) because it's the only
thing
> that will cope with the volume of the (un-insulated) workshop. (the
> laminating room is insulated, and maintains 70F in mid winter on
electric
> heating) - however, I use the gas heater to initially warm the air
and parts
> up to working temp.
>
> Sometimes very low temperatures prevent me from working: the roof
retains
> moisture that freezes and then melts, raining inside the workshop
(so I
> don't bother on those rare occasions) but generally the increased
> temperature more than compensates for any extra moisture introduced:
the
> humidity drops dramatically, and in fact my worst (also very
> occasional)problem is high temps and high humidity - then even a
fairly
> large dehumidifier can't cope with the airflow through the building.
>
> Miles
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch>
Subject: Re: acetone
> In view of the poisonous nature of acetone and MEK, I always use
concentrated vinager for cleaning tools instead of acetone or MEK: Works
great, is very cheap, no poisonous effects to men and environment. We buy it
here in Switzerland as a houshold cleaning item. For cleaning surfaces
before bonding, acetone or MEK is unfortunatly a must.
>
> Alfred,
> #097 Monowheel XS 912S
Cheers,
Alfred's remark reminds me that I re-use those cheap Chinese hog
bristle brushes several times over when daubing epoxy into queer corners.
They are dumped into Apple Cider Vinegar which contains 5% acetic acid by
volume. When the job is done, I swirl them about in the vinegar for a few
minutes and towel them off, then apply strong detergent to loosen any tough
blobs and finish off with pure hand soap and rinse clean. That way I take
about 3 minutes to clean and store several for the next job. When dry, they
smell (and taste) of pure hog bristle - just like the new ones in the pack.
Great for wiping off anything sticky including hands....
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Hi! Eddie.
I think you will find that you have a MKI fuselage and so haven't the 2"
longer footwells.
I seem to remember that the Port side is quite different to the Starboard
side. My Kit No is 337
and also had an XS/LA cockpit module in it with the MKI Wings and MKI
Fuselage.
Have you sized and fitted the rudder cables yet? because you should be able
to adjust the stroke of the actuating levers which should aleiviate your
problem.
Further if you are a trike construction have you made a secondary firewall
with the piece of phenolic which you removed, just behind the nose gear leg
and bungee? This somewhat relaxes the mind with regards the "crap" fitting
stainless firewall! also I ordered a length of fireproof/rubber flanging
material from Europa Factory to edge the stainless with and fold to lay
flush on the phenolic.(I believe it may be part of the Rotax Kit)
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk
Subject: Metal plate Firewall problem
Hi all
We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit module,
and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
delivered with the kit.
Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back into
the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to go
straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is not
meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a different
position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I had
had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a solution?
Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
Regards
Eddie
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Skyflash strobe system |
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>I understand that this will involve a "modification" application to the
PFA.
I'm sure it has been done before. Any of you guys ? If so, which was the
original aircraft for which application was made ? What mods are necessary
for the fuselage ? (I make it about three holes (small) with some BID to
strengthen these holes).
Was there any problem with the application ? A copy would be most useful.<
The only difference for the Europa Club Strobe Mod is that it has only one
strobe on the fin. If you use this mod and advise the PFA the method and
positioning of the lower strobe I suspect that Francis will clear it with
the minimum of hassle. Once cleared I would appreciate a copy so that we
can update the Europa Club mod to include 2 strobes. This approach should
enable you to proceed with very little delay.
NB. You will need to be a member of the Europa Club to use this mod so if
you are not a member now is the time to join!
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>I am installing my panel now and have a question. I am making a warning
light panel above the attitude gyro and found 6 nice small LED indicator
lights. I have green, yellow and red lights. I even cut the holes I was so
happy with the lights I found. The only problem is that when I apply the 12
volts to the yellow light, it looks red! I can't quite figure out what is
going on. It has a yellow lend, but when illuminated, it looks almost the
same as the red light. I either need to scrap them all and go with another
type, or make this work somehow.
Does anybody out there have any sources for electrical lights? Small ones
are the way I am going to save panel space.
<
At the risk of boring you with my approach I did my warning lights as
follows:
I used rectangular lights (supplied in the UK- about 3/4" x 1/2", green,
amber, red and blue as required). Although this might be bigger than you
planned it can include the label within the translucent cover by printing
labels on clear sheet and cutting them just smaller than the cover. You
might find this uses less space than smaller lights with separate labels
and looks neater. I wired each bulb to a single test switch using diodes so
that a lights test can be achieved. The only problem is bright sunlight
from behind making it difficult to see if a light is illuminated but I
guess that is a problem for most of us - rebating the lights into the panel
should help. I managed to fit a block of 8 above the flight instruments.
The rest had to go where ever space allowed. I am sure you should be able
to obtain suitable lights in the USA but let me know if you need my UK
source.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low pressure fuel switch |
Message text written by John & Paddy Wigney
>Am not sure if this is too late for you but another way of doing this is
to
rely on an EIS unit to manage all your engine instrumentation. I have the
EIS
supplied fuel pressure sender in the line to my carbs and I set the alarm
to
the Rotax minimum fuel pressure of 2.2 psi. I have alarms on all the engine
variables such as rpm, oil pressure and temp, CHT, etc. It is a lot better
than having to scan gauges. If something goes out of whack, you immediately
get the EIS flashing light. From all my reading about the Rotax 912/914
family, fuel pressure seems to be the key item. i.e. Give it fuel and it
works. The EIS has a preferred page display arrangement where I show rpm,
oil
temp & pressure, fuel pressure and CHT. You can access all the other
variables
such as time, OAT, voltage as necessary.
My experience with the EIS 2000 is very positive. For example, it has a
digital rpm readout and I chose to add a separate analog tacho to my panel
because I thought that would be more user friendly --- WRONG. I find that I
rarely refer to the analog tacho since the digital readout is very accurate
and has rapid response to any change. Next time I would leave the analog
tacho
out.
<
Thank you for your input, however this new forum is confusing because it
was not me that placed the question. I was just responding with the info
asked ie. about a source of low pressure switches. As you have mentioned
the above I thought I would offer my views on the subject as well.
I agree that an engine monitoring package is very useful whether EIS or as
in my case the Rocky Mountain uMonitor. I also agree that sustaining
adequate fuel pressure is very important. The two most important systems to
keep an engine running are fuel and ignition. Most a/c engines have two
independant ignition systems but we tend to assume that by putting an
electric pump in series with the mechanical one we do the same for the fuel
system. This is obviously not the case as any blockage, leak or fuel
vapourisation will stop the engine. The reason Dave Anderson was asking
about pressure switches was because I believe he is interested in using my
idea of a parallel fuel system. This doesn't just shout at you when you
have a problem, it solves the problem as well. My Europa has been flying
about 8 hours now and the system works well. I regularly test it before
take-off by switching off the fuel to the mechanical pump to make sure the
electric pump cuts in.
I don't agree with the idea of dispensing with the analogue RPM gauge. I
find that it is much easier to see the position of the needle relative to
the yellow and red marks than reading a digital display. When there is a
lot to grab your attention outside the cockpit (eg. take-off with a
monowheel) very little attention can be spared to look at instruments. I
find that both the analogue IAS and RPM can be picked up in peripheral
vision. I would suggest it is not possible to do this with digital gauges.
It is interesting to note that even with the ultimate sophistication of
modern airliner instrument panels all the important gauges still have
analogue as well as digital indications.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
I didn't realise how much interest my inflight adjustable cowl flaps would
create - 15 requests for the photos so far. Mark Jackson has offered to put
them on his website so to avoid everyone having to put up with a large
download I will pass them on to him for publishing.
The essence of the mod is as follows:
A pair of apertures (240mm x 40mm) were cut in the lower rear of the cowl
just forward of the footwell protrusions of the firewall. External
overlapping flaps (5 plies of 'bid') with full length aluminium hinges were
fitted to the cowl. The flaps were held closed using springs attached to
the inside of the cowl forward of the flaps at one end and a bracket on the
rear inside of the flap at the other. The bracket also helps to stiffen the
flap to prevent distortion. An extra Rotax dual choke cable (supplied by
Europa Aircraft) was utilised for control. It has two Bowden cables mated
to a single control knob (labelled 'COWL FLAPS') enabling adjustment of
both cowl flaps simultaneously. The outer sheaths of the cables are held at
their lower ends to the vertical forward face of the footwells using
clamps. Friction adjustment was achieved by the use of a screw tapped into
the body of the control knob assembly. The cables can be locked in position
by twisting the knob (similar to the manual choke used in older cars). The
lower end of the cables are terminated with solderless nipples which are
attached to ends of a pair of belcranks. The other end of the belcranks
have small wheels attached which push against the flaps as they are
rotated. This type of interconnection was used so that there was no
permanent connection between the cable and the cowl easing cowl removal and
refitting (see photos for design details). If this is difficult to
understand the photos should reveal all.
NB. As every Europa tends to be a little different in its cooling
requirements it pays to get the cooling set correctly for cold weather
operation with the flaps closed first. The flaps are then just used to
provide an increase in cooling for hotter weather. Be aware that they will
only have limited effect for extended ground running due to the limited
airflow.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
On the subject of analogue instruments, chalk me on Nigel's side
. While it's true I've found digital gauges to be accurate where you want
concrete figures (fuel used etc), most of my 'events' were solved by a quick
glance at the panel.
Nigel will confirm that after a few hours of famil with a
well-designed cockpit, a 'picture' emerges which the brain soaks up as
scanning. When an engine burps, that first glance at the panel picks up the
faulty source most times. The reason is that a photo equals a thousand
numbers, and that photo comes from analogue dials, all in a row. The
argument might not hold with a single engine as much as with banks of dials,
but I'll bet that analogue tach will come in handy at some time.
ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Skyflash strobe system |
Hi! All
Sorry I missed the strobe mod. request but G-PTAG has the fin mounted strobe
and the belly mounted one ( both by GoldWing!) To mount the belly strobe I
increased the size of the ply insert for the Electric Drive Flap motor
mount. It was all approved by the PFA but I can't say if they gave it a Mod.
No.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Trike Europa 337/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Fw: Skyflash strobe system
Message text written by INTERNET:forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
>I understand that this will involve a "modification" application to the
PFA.
I'm sure it has been done before. Any of you guys ? If so, which was the
original aircraft for which application was made ? What mods are necessary
for the fuselage ? (I make it about three holes (small) with some BID to
strengthen these holes).
Was there any problem with the application ? A copy would be most useful.<
The only difference for the Europa Club Strobe Mod is that it has only one
strobe on the fin. If you use this mod and advise the PFA the method and
positioning of the lower strobe I suspect that Francis will clear it with
the minimum of hassle. Once cleared I would appreciate a copy so that we
can update the Europa Club mod to include 2 strobes. This approach should
enable you to proceed with very little delay.
NB. You will need to be a member of the Europa Club to use this mod so if
you are not a member now is the time to join!
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
Having read the other replies regarding kerosene heaters I am surprised that
no one pointed out that one of the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning is
headache.
Here is what the AIM has to say:
8-1-4. CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING IN FLIGHT
a. Carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas contained in
exhaust fumes. When breathed even in minute quantities over a period of
time, it can significantly reduce the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.
Consequently, effects of hypoxia occur.
b. Most heaters in light aircraft work by air flowing over the manifold. Use
of these heaters while exhaust fumes are escaping through manifold cracks
and seals is responsible every year for several nonfatal and fatal aircraft
accidents from carbon monoxide poisoning.
c. A pilot who detects the odor of exhaust or experiences symptoms of
headache, drowsiness, or dizziness while using the heater should suspect
carbon monoxide poisoning, and immediately shut off the heater and open air
vents. If symptoms are severe or continue after landing, medical treatment
should be sought.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Subject: Re: Headaches
When I get an infrequent headache, it's usually from the Kerosene heater
that I'm using to keep my shop warm. I've used a respirator during all my
layups and use the "Invisible Gloves" cream on my hands. You may be getting
a reaction through your hands?
Cleve
>
> Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to
epoxy and fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months
and for the last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every
night after I work on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from
various chemicals and this is the same thing. I have experimented with
staying away from the airplane and it only occurs after working on it. I
think I have accumulated a fair amount of fumes in the garage and since
there is cold weather out, I have not opened things up as I should have. I
wear a respirator mask, but only when actively sanding and laying up glass,
etc.
>
> Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this
improves when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Anderson
> A227
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
Before blaming absolutely everyrthing on solvents or carbon monoxide it is worth
remembering that dehydration produces or exacerbates headaches. Spending all
day in a (hopefully) warm and dry atmosphere getting so engrossed in the build
process that you forget to stop for a drink is a good way to get headaches without
the need for solvents. David Joyce 402
________________________________________________________________________________
forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
>>> "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com> 02/27/02 04:36pm >>>
Hi All,
The rudder pedal shafts have allways been in the same position, only the vertical
arms were changed on the XS, they were cranked forward, to increase the legroom.
Making the firewall recessed both sides is OK
The seal between the SS and the main firewall needs to be as good as you can get
it, ie no visable gaps, seal it with high temp silicone sealant.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> 02/27/02 01:07pm >>>
Hi all
We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit module,
and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
delivered with the kit.
Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back into
the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to go
straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is not
meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a different
position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I had
had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a solution?
Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
Regards
Eddie
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Thanks Bob and Nevil. I thought as much. Obviously, if the rudder
pedals are cranked forward, then the actuator arms that join the
cable will effectively by cranked back if the rudder pedals are
aligned as per manual. I am glad that I am not going mad (in my
opinion).
Ed
Quoting Neville Eyre <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>:
>
>
> >>> "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com> 02/27/02 04:36pm
>>>
> Hi All,
> The rudder pedal shafts have allways been in the same position,
only the
> vertical arms were changed on the XS, they were cranked forward, to
> increase the legroom.
> Making the firewall recessed both sides is OK
> The seal between the SS and the main firewall needs to be as good
as you
> can get it, ie no visable gaps, seal it with high temp silicone
> sealant.
> Cheers,
> Nev.
>
> >>> 02/27/02 01:07pm >>>
> Hi all
>
> We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit
module,
> and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
> delivered with the kit.
>
> Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
> from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
> front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
> for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back
into
> the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to
go
> straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
> other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is
not
> meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
>
> I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a
different
> position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
> classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
> tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I
had
> had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
> that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
>
> In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
> recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
>
> Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
> never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
>
> Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a
solution?
>
> Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
> the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
>
> Regards
>
> Eddie
>
> /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
>
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I'll bet that analogue tach will come in handy at some time.
... but remember that if you are flying with a constant speed prop then
manifold pressure will be the measure of engine performance as the RPM
is going to stay constant.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
I also find fuel flow a good measure of power.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Analoguery
>
> I'll bet that analogue tach will come in handy at some time.
>
> ... but remember that if you are flying with a constant speed prop then
> manifold pressure will be the measure of engine performance as the RPM
> is going to stay constant.
>
> Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
Thank you all for your comments re the Kerosene heater in my garage, I appreciate
the concern.
I am aware of the problems of using a kerosene heater, in fact was living in Brantford,
ON (just down the road from Hamilton) when that EZ crashed.
While my e-mail combined the discussion of respirator, barrier cream and heater
in one sentence, that has not been the case for any structural parts. ( I confess,
I did lay up the inspection port covers in the garage this winter.)
All of my structural bonding/laminating work has been done in either my warm basement
work area, or in the garage during the summer and fall. I am intentionally
waiting until spring to set the wing incidence and then bond on the top using
that great mod we just discussed a few weeks (months?) ago.
Currently working landing gear, antenna, panel, stab retrofit, etc.
I will continue to heed the great advice we all have here.
Cleve
>
> Paul:
> This happened at my EAA chapter in Hamilton ON - but lots of
> years ago.
> Ferg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net>
> Subject: Re: Headaches
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recollect an accident report from Canada where a composite aircraft
> > crashed due delaminating. The investigation revealed that the builder had
> > been using a Kerosene heater to keep his shop warm during the curing
> phase.
> > Apparently this led to a deposit on the surface which ultimately caused
> the
> > delaminating. So in short, Kerosene heater's are probably not a great
> > idea.
> >
> > I did not read this accident repost first hand, perhaps someone else on
> the
> > forum did and my be able to add more detail
> >
> > Regards, Paul (363)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil(at)clara.net>
> > Subject: Re: Headaches
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >the Kerosene heater that I'm using to keep my shop warm
> > >
> > > Cleve - sounds like a bad idea from 2 points of view.
> > >
> > > (1) Even infrequent headaches from a heating appliance suggest to me
> > > a possible problem with dangerous waste gases.
> > >
> > > (2) If the flame of the kerosene heater does not live in a separate
> > > atmosphere from that of the shop, it will be increasing the humidity
> > > in your work area which is a bad thing for epoxy curing (see the
> > > instructions).
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Rowland
> > >
> > >
> > > | Wilma & Rowland Carson <http://home.clara.net/rowil/>
> > > | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>Now if I could actually find TIME to work on the plane, all would be
>set. I'm spending half my life at our facility in Holland enjoying
>Dutch beer, Dutch coffee, Dutch chocolate, and rain.
>
>Chris
>A159
Give my regards to the Dutch Europa flyers at Hilversum if you meet them.
Henk, Bart, Nico and Rob.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Beck <n9zes(at)execpc.com> |
I'll have to look them up. I pass not to far from there. I did meet up
with Barry Tennant last year over at Nordhorn, Germany, and flew in his
Europa. What a great time and a great plane.
Chris
Graham Singleton wrote:
>
> >Now if I could actually find TIME to work on the plane, all would be
> >set. I'm spending half my life at our facility in Holland enjoying
> >Dutch beer, Dutch coffee, Dutch chocolate, and rain.
> >
> >Chris
> >A159
>
> Give my regards to the Dutch Europa flyers at Hilversum if you meet them.
> Henk, Bart, Nico and Rob.
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | future Europa pilot ... |
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Stewart" <paul-d.stewart(at)virgin.net> |
Agree with this entirely 'though the point about carbon monoxide is worth
taking seriously as the neurological deficits from CO piosoning are
insideous and perminant unlike dehydration.
Paul Stewart #432
----- Original Message -----
From: david joyce <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Headaches
Before blaming absolutely everyrthing on solvents or carbon monoxide it is
worth remembering that dehydration produces or exacerbates headaches.
Spending all day in a (hopefully) warm and dry atmosphere getting so
engrossed in the build process that you forget to stop for a drink is a good
way to get headaches without the need for solvents. David Joyce 402
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Hi All,
The rudder pedal shafts have allways been in the same position, only the vertical
arms were changed on the XS, they were cranked forward, to increase the legroom.
Making the firewall recessed both sides is OK
The seal between the SS and the main firewall needs to be as good as you can get
it, ie no visable gaps, seal it with high temp silicone sealant.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> 02/27/02 01:07pm >>>
Hi all
We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit module,
and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
delivered with the kit.
Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back into
the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to go
straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is not
meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a different
position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I had
had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a solution?
Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
Regards
Eddie
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Eddie
I may be running into similar conditions. My fuselage has the XS console.
What is your kit number please?
JR (Bob) Gowing Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Metal plate Firewall problem
> Thanks Bob and Nevil. I thought as much. Obviously, if the rudder
> pedals are cranked forward, then the actuator arms that join the
> cable will effectively by cranked back if the rudder pedals are
> aligned as per manual. I am glad that I am not going mad (in my
> opinion).
>
> Ed
>
> Quoting Neville Eyre <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>:
>
> >
> >
> > >>> "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com> 02/27/02 04:36pm
> >>>
> > Hi All,
> > The rudder pedal shafts have allways been in the same position,
> only the
> > vertical arms were changed on the XS, they were cranked forward, to
> > increase the legroom.
> > Making the firewall recessed both sides is OK
> > The seal between the SS and the main firewall needs to be as good
> as you
> > can get it, ie no visable gaps, seal it with high temp silicone
> > sealant.
> > Cheers,
> > Nev.
> >
> > >>> 02/27/02 01:07pm >>>
> > Hi all
> >
> > We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit
> module,
> > and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
> > delivered with the kit.
> >
> > Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit made
> > from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
> > front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to allow
> > for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back
> into
> > the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed to
> go
> > straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because the
> > other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is
> not
> > meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
> >
> > I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a
> different
> > position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
> > classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
> > tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if I
> had
> > had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I assume
> > that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
> >
> > In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
> > recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
> >
> > Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the assy.
> > never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
> >
> > Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a
> solution?
> >
> > Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall and
> > the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Eddie
> >
> > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
> >
> _
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
>
>
> /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au> |
About the only tool I have been getting wet with epoxy is my scissors which
I keep wiping with with paper towel. There is a gradual thin layer of epoxy
builds. I infrequently scrape this off the blades with a sharp knife or
scalpel.
I have used vinegar to dump brushes into and then clean but now throw them
away. Sometimes I find gloved fingers good at working the glass into place,
followed by wiping with a paper towell.
Paper towel can also soak up excess epoxy from unwanted hollows.
My bottle of acetone has hardly been used.
JR (Bob) Gowing 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: acetone
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch>
> Subject: Re: acetone
>
>
> > In view of the poisonous nature of acetone and MEK, I always use
> concentrated vinager for cleaning tools instead of acetone or MEK: Works
> great, is very cheap, no poisonous effects to men and environment. We buy
it
> here in Switzerland as a houshold cleaning item. For cleaning surfaces
> before bonding, acetone or MEK is unfortunatly a must.
> >
> > Alfred,
> > #097 Monowheel XS 912S
>
> Cheers,
> Alfred's remark reminds me that I re-use those cheap Chinese
hog
> bristle brushes several times over when daubing epoxy into queer corners.
> They are dumped into Apple Cider Vinegar which contains 5% acetic acid by
> volume. When the job is done, I swirl them about in the vinegar for a few
> minutes and towel them off, then apply strong detergent to loosen any
tough
> blobs and finish off with pure hand soap and rinse clean. That way I take
> about 3 minutes to clean and store several for the next job. When dry,
they
> smell (and taste) of pure hog bristle - just like the new ones in the
pack.
> Great for wiping off anything sticky including hands....
> Ferg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: EUROPA ADS: Please feel free to place EUROPA adverts here! |
>I NEED TO SELL MY COMPLETE EUROPA KIT NO 458 ASAP TO PAY FOR BACK SURGERY.
ALL THE FLYING SURFACES ARE COMPLETE AND FILLED AND SIGNED OFF. THE COCKPIT
MODULE IS COMPLETE BUT NOT FITTED. SAVE 1000 HRS AT LEAST. KIT IS A MONO BUT
IS AT THE STAGE WHERE A TRI OR TAILDRAGGER COULD BE UTILISED. OFFERS AROUND
KIT PRICE TO WILLYDEWEY(at)AOL.COM
You should say what part of the world you're in.
Also, you can advertise if for free at
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/ads/
I'm sorry to hear you've got to sell though and even more sorry to hear it's
because of back problems. I hope all goes well with the surgery.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Hi Bob
We are kit 279.
Cheers
Ed
Quoting "J R (Bob) Gowing" :
> Eddie
>
> I may be running into similar conditions. My fuselage has the XS
> console.
> What is your kit number please?
>
> JR (Bob) Gowing Kit 327 in Oz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Metal plate Firewall problem
>
>
> > Thanks Bob and Nevil. I thought as much. Obviously, if the rudder
> > pedals are cranked forward, then the actuator arms that join the
> > cable will effectively by cranked back if the rudder pedals are
> > aligned as per manual. I am glad that I am not going mad (in my
> > opinion).
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Quoting Neville Eyre <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com> 02/27/02
04:36pm
> > >>>
> > > Hi All,
> > > The rudder pedal shafts have allways been in the same position,
> > only the
> > > vertical arms were changed on the XS, they were cranked forward,
> to
> > > increase the legroom.
> > > Making the firewall recessed both sides is OK
> > > The seal between the SS and the main firewall needs to be as
good
> > as you
> > > can get it, ie no visable gaps, seal it with high temp silicone
> > > sealant.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Nev.
> > >
> > > >>> 02/27/02 01:07pm >>>
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > We have one of the last classic fusalages with the XS cockpit
> > module,
> > > and I assume that we also have many if not all of the XS parts
> > > delivered with the kit.
> > >
> > > Last week were installing the centre firewall section (the bit
> made
> > > from the metal plate) and came accross a problem. Looking at the
> > > front of the plane, the far left section is recessed back to
allow
> > > for the rudder cable actuator arm to travel a fair distance back
> > into
> > > the slot. However, on the right side, the firewall is supposed
to
> > go
> > > straight accross with no recess. I assume that this is because
the
> > > other actuator arm is on the forward pedal tube and therefore is
> > not
> > > meant to hit the firewall. The problem is that it does.
> > >
> > > I would like to know if the actuator arms were welded in a
> > different
> > > position on the XS rudder tubes compared to that of the original
> > > classic rudder tubes. I have checked the position of the rudder
> > > tubes, and they are correct (according to the book), however if
I
> > had
> > > had the XS fusealage with the 2 extra inches of leg room, I
assume
> > > that the rudder pedals would be further forward?
> > >
> > > In short, If we make the right side of the metal plate firewall
> > > recessed as well as the left, will it be a problem?
> > >
> > > Do I have a different type of rudder pedal assy., or has the
assy.
> > > never changed (and I have screwed up somewhere along the line?)
> > >
> > > Has anyone else had this problem, and would like to offer a
> > solution?
> > >
> > > Is it okay to have small gaps between the metal plate firewall
and
> > > the phenolic firewall? I suspect that it is not ideal!!
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> > > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> > > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> > > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
> > >
> >
>
> > _
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > _
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
> >
>
_
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
CONGRATULATIONS to you both and best wishes to all three of you.
As a proud dad of our 5 month (nearly) old daughter I still have vivid memories
of how it feels when a little one enters your life.
Best regards
Andy
>>> 28/02/02 02:42:59 >>>
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Runnymede73(at)aol.com |
THANKS FOR THE WELL WISHING
I AM IN GUILDFORD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Martin,
Congratulations! You might want to contact Dennis Vorhees who has
designed a seat for his daughter (now about 5 or 6 years). You will have
to phone him (he's on the builders list) since he doesn't "do" E-mail.
regards,
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
Before blaming absolutely everyrthing on solvents or carbon monoxide it is
worth remembering that dehydration produces or exacerbates headaches.
Spending all day in a (hopefully) warm and dry atmosphere getting so
engrossed in the build process that you forget to stop for a drink is a good
way to get headaches without the need for solvents. David Joyce 402
David,
A very good point. I personally do just that - I get so engrossed in my work that
I even forget to eat. That will also be changing.
Dave
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com> |
I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend Sun 'N
Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some afternoon or
evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
Garry V. Stout
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
*****Please note new e-mail address******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Holder <rholder(at)avnet.co.uk> |
I am planning to attend - flying in on Monday and leaving on Thursday.
Arriving in a Cessna 172 from Eagle Crest, Delaware.
'Supposed to be sleeping under the wing - but that doesn't sound all that
comfortable !
Recognition may be difficult, but I'm 6ft 2in, with round glasses and a
ponytail ! And of course I speak with a British accent !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH, England email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
>
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend Sun
> 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some afternoon
> or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
> Sun 'N Fun this year.
I'll be there :-)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
I should be there too.
Klaus (Mono 132)
"STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" wrote:
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend Sun
'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some afternoon
or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Boulet <possible2do(at)yahoo.com> |
I'll be there too....Kevin Kleinfelter coming too
Paul Boulet A212, Malibu CA
Klaus Dietrich wrote: I should be there too.
Klaus (Mono 132)
"STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" wrote:
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend Sun
'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some afternoon or
evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> In the event of problems contact
The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
In the event of problems contact
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm going. Flying down in the Cozy with last years Europa party crasher,
Johnny V.
SteveD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Jones" <jronjones(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low pressure fuel switch |
Bosch do a low fuel-pressure switch. P/number 0/344 101 055.
Don't know what pressure it indicates at, though!
Regards to all,
Ron Jones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
Hi Martin,
Congratulations. As far as the seat mod goes I think it is something along
the lines of, a bigger airplane, bigger car, bigger house, bigger
mortgage.......... I'm sure you get the picture.
Regards, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
> Hi Folks,
>
> Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
>
> Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
>
> For those interested photos can be found at:
>
> http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
>
> Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
>
> Best wishes,
> Martin Tuck
> N152MT
> Wichita, Kansas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
I'll be there, along with my co pilot, Graham Singleton, - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Subject: Sun 'N Fun
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
Sun 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
afternoon or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night
dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal plate Firewall problem |
Hi All,
If we are talking about the LH pedal hitting the footwell on the LH edge,
mine did too, and that was with the pedals set to the correct diminsions in
relation to the MLG frame. I put the LH section in a vise, stuck a piece of
rod in the toe cross piece and heated it with a torch a put a very slight "s"
turn in it. I is only barely noticeable and it does not hit the side of the
foot well anymore.
If this was not what the discussion was about please disregard.
Thanks.
Troy
N120EU
Classic Monowheel
(finishing up filling the wings and filling the seams in fuselage, etc.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
Hi All,
A flying buddy and I will be there from Sunday til about Thursday or Friday.
We will be in the camp ground.
Suggestion: We all need to wear nametags or something to help ID ourselves as
fellow builders/flyers. There's times I go wandering through the Europa tent
where a crowd is gathered and it would be nice to put a face with a familiar
name from the forum, (at least at the factory get together on Monday.) Are
you reading this John?
Troy
N120EU
In a message dated 2/28/02 2:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rholder(at)avnet.co.uk writes:
<< I am planning to attend - flying in on Monday and leaving on Thursday.
Arriving in a Cessna 172 from Eagle Crest, Delaware.
'Supposed to be sleeping under the wing - but that doesn't sound all that
comfortable !
Recognition may be difficult, but I'm 6ft 2in, with round glasses and a
ponytail ! And of course I speak with a British accent !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH, England email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
>
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
Sun
> 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
afternoon
> or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Boulet <possible2do(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | gation / Position Lights |
Hi All;
Thought I should pass this along. I found a guy that has several hundred brand
new navigation / position lights new old stock from 1958. I took a chance because
the pictures I saw looked good and am very pleased. Other than cutting
off a flange around the light they should fit nicely into my wings. This guy
sells them for $5 each plus shipping... I bought 4 so I'd have some extra glass
lenses in case one breaks. I orignally found this guy on ebay. Send him email
if you want a few. His name is Bob and can be reached at ramonacafe(at)mail.com
He lives in California. By the way, I also bought a used strobe unit on ebay
for $20 that works great. You guys that bought new, retail eat your hearts out!
Paul Boulet, A212
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Henderson" <europa10(at)bellsouth.net> |
I'll be there Sunday, Monday and part of Tuesday.
Bill Henderson
A010
----- Original Message -----
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com>
Subject: Sun 'N Fun
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
Sun 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
afternoon or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night
dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
1 valid command processed; it was successful.
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:24:29 +0100
Subject: Majordomo results: archive-get-immediate forum 200203
From: majordomo-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
>>>> archive-get-immediate forum 200203
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
I'll be there with the woman who just bought me my $18000.00 firewall forward birthday
present!
Cleve Lee
A198
>
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend Sun
'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some afternoon
or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
>
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
Sheesh, guys, I feel left out. I can't go to SunN'Fun. Isn't anybody going
to Arlington?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: <TroyMaynor(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sun 'N Fun
> Hi All,
> A flying buddy and I will be there from Sunday til about Thursday or
Friday.
> We will be in the camp ground.
> Suggestion: We all need to wear nametags or something to help ID ourselves
as
> fellow builders/flyers. There's times I go wandering through the Europa
tent
> where a crowd is gathered and it would be nice to put a face with a
familiar
> name from the forum, (at least at the factory get together on Monday.) Are
> you reading this John?
>
> Troy
> N120EU
>
> In a message dated 2/28/02 2:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rholder(at)avnet.co.uk writes:
>
> << I am planning to attend - flying in on Monday and leaving on Thursday.
> Arriving in a Cessna 172 from Eagle Crest, Delaware.
>
> 'Supposed to be sleeping under the wing - but that doesn't sound all that
> comfortable !
>
> Recognition may be difficult, but I'm 6ft 2in, with round glasses and a
> ponytail ! And of course I speak with a British accent !
>
> Richard
-
> Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
> Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
> Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
> SG12 8SH, England email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
-
> PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
> Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
-
>
> >
> > I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to
attend
> Sun
> > 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
> afternoon
> > or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night
dinner.
> >
> > Garry V. Stout
> >
> > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> >
> >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> I'll be there with the woman who just bought me my $18000.00 firewall
> forward birthday present!
Do NOT let that woman go! She is a rare creature indeed :-)
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
All
I can't go to Fun N Sun this year :(
I will be at Arlington again this year. In fact, Bob and I were planning on
hosting the famous Europa Builders Bar-B-Q at our new home and "Europa
Factory" this year. That way we will have a "build in progress" to talk
about. We will send out more details in June.
Florida is a long way from Seattle, 3,120 miles by motorhome.
Next year Betty and I will be able to fly there in "Wile Coyote" . That is
a good idea. See you then.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
> I'll be there with the woman who just bought me my $18000.00 firewall
> forward birthday present!
>Do NOT let that woman go! She is a rare creature indeed :-)
I agree!!!!!!!
My Betty, did even better for me this past summer. She bought me a large
garage with a small house and yard so I could build the airplane kit she
surprised me with. She is priceless. And you can tell her I said so when you
see her at Arlington.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | another future Europa pilot... |
Hi All,
Less than 24 hours ago, I was reading the good news from Martin about the
birth of his daughter.
This morning at 00:39 UK time, my wife also gave birth to a daughter who
weighed in at 8lb 15oz. Both mother and baby are well (we haven't decided
on a name yet). If interested, pictures of baby aged about 10 minutes, can
be seen at
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/indexer/thumbs.pl?kids/000-020301.
So the last week has been good for future Europa pilot's!
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Where do you chaps find them!
Jan bought me a compass and a "piss" bottle. I think perhaps she was trying
to tell me something
especially since to use the bottle I need to have the control stick hard
forward!
Still on reflection you'd better not let Betty find out about that !!!!?????
See you at Oshkosh barring any incidents between now and then !
Anyway what engine was in the firewall forward kit ?
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
BTW Congratulations to the Mark and Martin couples..... Spring is in the
air........ been there done that...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
I will be going to Sun 'n' Fun on the Friday. I will be staying in Tampa so
if anyone would like to share transport on the day let me know. I will be
at the Europa stand at noon and 2pm should anyone wish to meet up at the
show.
Regards
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Yet another future Europa pilot... |
CONGRATULATIONS to you, Mark and your wife. It seems that Europa builders are
a fertile lot!
Best wishes to all three of you too.
Regards
Andy
>>> 01/03/02 04:36:14 >>>
Hi All,
Less than 24 hours ago, I was reading the good news from Martin about the
birth of his daughter.
This morning at 00:39 UK time, my wife also gave birth to a daughter who
weighed in at 8lb 15oz. Both mother and baby are well (we haven't decided
on a name yet). If interested, pictures of baby aged about 10 minutes, can
be seen at
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/indexer/thumbs.pl?kids/000-020301.
So the last week has been good for future Europa pilot's!
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun and Fun. |
When Terry Seaver and Dave DeFord said the US was aviation heaven, I didn't
realise it was this good!
I'm moving back to Texas, I think...
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Sent: 01 March 2002 08:00
Subject: Sun and Fun.
Where do you chaps find them!
Jan bought me a compass and a "piss" bottle. I think perhaps she was trying
to tell me something
especially since to use the bottle I need to have the control stick hard
forward!
Still on reflection you'd better not let Betty find out about that !!!!?????
See you at Oshkosh barring any incidents between now and then !
Anyway what engine was in the firewall forward kit ?
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
BTW Congratulations to the Mark and Martin couples..... Spring is in the
air........ been there done that...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
<79AE829BF1A2CD4AAE4B659AC218566C01243943(at)ocst09.ugd.att.com>
> > I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
> > Sun 'N Fun this year.
>I'll be there :-)
>Tony
So will I, look forward to plenty of chat
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bohn <john(at)apollodigitalmedia.co.uk> |
I am currently out of the office and will be returning on Monday 11th March.
If your enquiry is urgent please contact: info(at)apollodigitalmedia.co.uk.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Yet another future Europa pilot... |
> Hi All,
>
> Less than 24 hours ago, I was reading the good news from Martin about the
> birth of his daughter.
> This morning at 00:39 UK time, my wife also gave birth to a daughter who
> weighed in at 8lb 15oz. Both mother and baby are well (we haven't decided
> on a name yet). If interested, pictures of baby aged about 10 minutes,
can
> be seen at
> http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/indexer/thumbs.pl?kids/000-020301.
> So the last week has been good for future Europa pilot's!
> Cheers,
> Mark.
Hi All,
After 24 hours without sleep, my fingers weren't working too well and
there's a typo in the above. The correct weight was 7lb 15oz...
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | boomers or what? |
........looks like many buns are being taken outta the oven this week.!!!
Proves a point...europa builders do have lead in their pencils after all....
Haven't experienced it yet,but the word around is once the new members come
along, you are pushed out of the way........which means more time in the
workshop!!
Congratulation to the all the new fathers .
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
I agree. I have hardly used half liter Acetone since this day
and bonding cockpit module soon to fuselage.
I use only once brushes, gloves, mixing sticks, cups, squegees and similar.
I save my health, time, nervs and acetone. I Think I make also better quality with
always new things.
The worth of those tools is not essential in this project.
Cheers,
Raimo #417
Raimo M W Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
37500 Lempaala, FINLAND
tel +358 3 3753 777
fax +358 3 3753 100
gsm +358 40 590 1450
www.rwm-systems.fi
raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi
----- Original Message -----
From: J R (Bob) Gowing <gowingjr(at)acr.net.au>
Subject: Re: acetone
> About the only tool I have been getting wet with epoxy is my scissors which
> I keep wiping with with paper towel. There is a gradual thin layer of epoxy
> builds. I infrequently scrape this off the blades with a sharp knife or
> scalpel.
>
> I have used vinegar to dump brushes into and then clean but now throw them
> away. Sometimes I find gloved fingers good at working the glass into place,
> followed by wiping with a paper towell.
>
> Paper towel can also soak up excess epoxy from unwanted hollows.
>
> My bottle of acetone has hardly been used.
>
> JR (Bob) Gowing 327 in Oz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
> Subject: Re: acetone
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess(at)shl.bfh.ch>
> > Subject: Re: acetone
> >
> >
> > > In view of the poisonous nature of acetone and MEK, I always use
> > concentrated vinager for cleaning tools instead of acetone or MEK: Works
> > great, is very cheap, no poisonous effects to men and environment. We buy
> it
> > here in Switzerland as a houshold cleaning item. For cleaning surfaces
> > before bonding, acetone or MEK is unfortunatly a must.
> > >
> > > Alfred,
> > > #097 Monowheel XS 912S
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alfred's remark reminds me that I re-use those cheap Chinese
> hog
> > bristle brushes several times over when daubing epoxy into queer corners.
> > They are dumped into Apple Cider Vinegar which contains 5% acetic acid by
> > volume. When the job is done, I swirl them about in the vinegar for a few
> > minutes and towel them off, then apply strong detergent to loosen any
> tough
> > blobs and finish off with pure hand soap and rinse clean. That way I take
> > about 3 minutes to clean and store several for the next job. When dry,
> they
> > smell (and taste) of pure hog bristle - just like the new ones in the
> pack.
> > Great for wiping off anything sticky including hands....
> > Ferg
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Staples" <brian(at)bstaples.freeserve.co.uk> |
Dave
It seems that you are convinced that your headaches only occur after
exposure to building materials. The solvents used in resin systems can
cause headaches and nausea in cases of excessive exposure, but I do not
know whether the resin itself can cause these symptoms. It is unlikely that
cured composite materials could explain such symptoms. Assuming your
symptoms are due to exposure to materials used in the construction of the
Europa then the only solution is to reduce exposure. This is achieved by
1. High standards of cleanliness and ventilation
2. Ensure your respirator conforms to EN 141 (I use 3M respirators)
3. Ensure cartridges on respirator are still functioning OK, if in doubt
replace
4. Ensure the mask fits well, and is worn at all times
However, the most important advice I can give to members of the group is
that people get ill for all sorts of reasons. Early morning headaches can
have a number of causes, therefore people should always consult their
doctor in the event of illness. I hope you are feeling better soon.
Brian Staples
Kit 514
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of DJA727(at)aol.com
Subject: Headaches
Another question to the group: I have read about becoming sensitive to epoxy
and fiberglass. I have been working my project now for about 5 months and
for the last 3 weeks have been getting headaches at about 4 AM every night
after I work on the airplane. I have always been prone to this from various
chemicals and this is the same thing. I have experimented with staying away
from the airplane and it only occurs after working on it. I think I have
accumulated a fair amount of fumes in the garage and since there is cold
weather out, I have not opened things up as I should have. I wear a
respirator mask, but only when actively sanding and laying up glass, etc.
Has any body experienced headaches from the building work? I hope this
improves when the weather warms and after all the cures are complete.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jdavey(at)avantgo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
Can anyone comment on the _relative_ nastiness of acetone and MEK, please?
Being about to start building, I'll be getting one or the other in the next
week. I don't mind using more solvent and paying more money if that means
less risk to my health - and Tony's comment on MEK show sound reasons for
concern.
Thanks for any help anyone can offer.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Tony S. Krzyzewski
Sent: 26 February 2002 19:50
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
I'll add a caution here about MEK which hasn't been voiced on the group
for a few years. This is an extremely strong solvent and, like acetone,
is capable of passing through the pores of the skin.
Effects of methyl ethyl ketone on human health depend on how much MEK is
present and the length and frequency of
exposure. Effects also depend on the health of a person or the
condition of the environment when exposure occurs.
Breathing MEK for short periods of time, such as when painting in a
poorly vented area, can adversely affect the nervous system. Effects
range from headaches, dizziness, nausea, and numbness in fingers and
toes to unconsciousness. MEK vapour irritates the eyes, the nose, and
the throat. Direct, prolonged contact with liquid methyl ethyl ketone
irritates the skin and damages the eyes.
When using MEK (or acetone) always wear protective gloves and use a face
mask and goggles. Never use MEK or acetone to clean your hands.
Build safe.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Pilcher" <kpeng(at)waverider.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Yet another future Europa pilot... |
Congratulations!
Must have something to do with excessive exposure to
resins............the hardener maybe?......:-)
Regards
Kevin (tri- G-okev)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another future Europa pilot...
> CONGRATULATIONS to you, Mark and your wife. It seems that Europa builders
are a fertile lot!
> Best wishes to all three of you too.
>
> Regards
>
> Andy
>
> >>> 01/03/02 04:36:14 >>>
> Hi All,
>
> Less than 24 hours ago, I was reading the good news from Martin about the
> birth of his daughter.
>
> This morning at 00:39 UK time, my wife also gave birth to a daughter who
> weighed in at 8lb 15oz. Both mother and baby are well (we haven't decided
> on a name yet). If interested, pictures of baby aged about 10 minutes,
can
> be seen at
> http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/indexer/thumbs.pl?kids/000-020301.
>
> So the last week has been good for future Europa pilot's!
>
> Cheers,
> Mark.
>
> ________________________________
> Mark Jackson - 07050 645590
> europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
> http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Augustene Brown <augustene(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun Hospitality Tent |
Builder ID tags is an excellent idea - thanks Troy. I will have them at the
hospitality tent :)
I have been trying to call (in the limited amount of time that I have) all
the USA builders requesting pictures of them with their aircraft, or their
work in progress. Please consider this an open request for pictures from Europa
builders ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!! Please include your name, kit number, tail
number and any information you care to share.
My intention is to have a bulletin board at the Builders/Hospitality tent
displaying pictures of as many Europa's as possible, so please send your
picture, better yet fly it in.
Attn: Augustene
3925 Aero Place
Lakeland, FL 33811
If you prefer, you may e-mail them directly to me at Augustene(at)cfl.rr.com
TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> A flying buddy and I will be there from Sunday til about Thursday or Friday.
> We will be in the camp ground.
> Suggestion: We all need to wear nametags or something to help ID ourselves as
> fellow builders/flyers. There's times I go wandering through the Europa tent
> where a crowd is gathered and it would be nice to put a face with a familiar
> name from the forum, (at least at the factory get together on Monday.) Are
> you reading this John?
>
> Troy
> N120EU
>
> In a message dated 2/28/02 2:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rholder(at)avnet.co.uk writes:
>
> << I am planning to attend - flying in on Monday and leaving on Thursday.
> Arriving in a Cessna 172 from Eagle Crest, Delaware.
>
> 'Supposed to be sleeping under the wing - but that doesn't sound all that
> comfortable !
>
> Recognition may be difficult, but I'm 6ft 2in, with round glasses and a
> ponytail ! And of course I speak with a British accent !
>
> Richard
> Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
> Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
> Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
> SG12 8SH, England email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
> PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
> Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
>
> >
> > I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
> Sun
> > 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
> afternoon
> > or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night dinner.
> >
> > Garry V. Stout
> >
> > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> >
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low pressure fuel switch |
OEM Automatic do a low pressure switch suitable for petrol systems (or a
different one for oil). The pressure switch level is adjustable from 0.1 to
1 bar which nicely covers what we need. They are designed for a million
cycle working life which should outlast most Europas and cost 20 or so.
David Joyce 402
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Jones <jronjones(at)lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Low pressure fuel switch
> Bosch do a low fuel-pressure switch. P/number 0/344 101 055.
> Don't know what pressure it indicates at, though!
> Regards to all,
> Ron Jones.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
> Can anyone comment on the _relative_ nastiness of acetone and MEK, please?
> Being about to start building, I'll be getting one or the other in the next
> week. I don't mind using more solvent and paying more money if that means
> less risk to my health - and Tony's comment on MEK show sound reasons for
> concern.
>
> Thanks for any help anyone can offer.
>
> Regards,
> Jeremy
Neither are really necessary, and MEK is definitely the nastier, but
Acetone evaps too quick. For tool cleanup, any solvent (and evev
non-solvents, as posted here, or mineral spirits) work. For prepping
bonding surfaces, lack of contaminant in the solvent is a big problem
("recovered" solvents). But for that you can buy "virgin" lacquer
thinner, which is OK, as it's in most spray paint cans used by the
masses. Acrylic lacquer thinner from an auto body supplier may have a
more pleasant odor for some, and should be virgin in a name brand if
not so stated.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
Here is the relevant information taken from the MSDS for each solvent. For
the complete Data Sheet on each go to http://www.msdsonline.com/Home/. It
will be necessary to sign up for access to the site but there is no fee for
limited access.
Part Number/Trade Name: (ACETONE) ACS, AX0120 DIMETHYL KETONE; 2-PROPANONE
Health Hazard Data
LD50-LC50 Mixture:
Page 3
126796
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: N/P
Route Of Entry - Skin: N/P
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: N/P
Health Haz Acute And Chronic:
Carcinogenicity - NTP: N/P
Carcinogenicity - IARC: N/P
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: N/P
Explanation Carcinogenicity:
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: NARCOTIC AT HIGH CONCENTRATION.
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp:
Emergency/First Aid Proc: INH: MOVE TO FRESH AIR. EYES: FLUSH W/WATER AT
LEAST 15 MINS. CALL MD.
Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
Steps If Matl Released/Spill: ELIMINATE SOURCES OF IGNITION. FLUSH W/LARGE
VOLUMES OF WATER.
Neutralizing Agent:
Waste Disposal Method: TO BE PERFORMED IN COMPLIANCE W/ALL CURRENT LOC AL,
STATE & FEDERAL REGULATIONS.
Precautions-Handling/Storing: STORE AWAY FROM SOURCE OF IGNITION. EXTREMELY
FLAMMABLE. GROUND DRUMS AT ALL TIMES.
Other Precautions:
Control Measures
Respiratory Protection: NIOSH/MSHA APPRVD ORGANIC CHEM CANISTER OR SUPPLIED
AIR.
Ventilation: LOCAL EXHAUST
Protective Gloves: RUBBER/VINYL
Eye Protection: GOGGLES OR FACE SHIELD
Other Protective Equipment: EYE BATH & SAFETY SHOWER
Work Hygienic Practices:
Suppl. Safety & Health Data: CONTAINER SIZE:1 GAL BOTTLE.
Part Number/Trade Name: 153-7588 METHYL ETHYL KETONE
Health Hazard Data
LD50-LC50 Mixture:
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES
Route Of Entry - Skin: NO
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: NO
Health Haz Acute And Chronic: MAY CAUSE IRRITATION OF EYES, SKIN &
RESPIRATORY SYSTEM. NERVOUS SYSTEM DEPRESSION. MAY RESULT IN DEATH.
OVEREXPOSURE TO SOLVENTS MAY CAUSE ADVERSE EFFECTS TO THE LIVER, URIO OD
FORMING & CARDIO-VASCULAR SYSTEMS. REPEATED/PROLONGED OVEREXPOSURE TO
SOLVENTS MAY CAUSE PERMANENT BRAIN & NERVOUS SYSTEM DAMAGE.
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO
Explanation Carcinogenicity: NONE
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: IRRITATION, UNCONSCIOUSNESS, HEADACHE, DIZZINESS,
NAUSEA, LOSS OF COORDINATION, REDNESS, ITCHING, BURNING SENSATION.
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp: NONE
Emergency/First Aid Proc: INHALATION: REMOVE FROM EXPOSURE. RESTORE
BREATHING. KEEP WARM & QUIET. SKIN: WASH THOROUGHLY W/SOAP & WATER. EYES:
FLUSH W/LARGE AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR 15 MINS. OBTAIN MEDICAL ATTENTION IN ALL
CASES.
Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
Steps If Matl Released/Spill: REMOVE ALL SOURCES OF IGNITION. VENTILATE &
REMOVE W/INERT ABSORBENT.
Report for NIIN: 00F049220
Neutralizing Agent: N/K
Waste Disposal Method: WASTE MUST BE TESTED FOR IGNITABILITY TO DETERMINE
THE APPLICABLE EPA HAZARDOUS WASTE NUMBERS. INCINERATE IN APPROVED FACILITY.
DON'T INCINERATE CLOSED CONTAINERS. DISPOSE OF IAW/LOCAL, STATE & FEDERAL
REGULATIONS.
Precautions-Handling/Storing: KEEP CONTAINER CLOSED WHEN NOT IN USE. USE
APPROVED BONDING & GROUNDING PROCEDURES. KEEP AWAY FROM IGNITION SOURCES.
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.
Other Precautions: DURING USE & UNTIL ALL VAPORS ARE GONE, KEEP AREA
VENTILATED. DON'T SMOKE. TRANSFER ONLY TO APPROVED CONTAINERS W/COMPLETE &
APPROPRIATE LABELING. USE ONLY W/ADEQUATE VENTILATION. AVOID BREATHING
VAPOR/SPRAY MIST. AVOID CONTACT W/SKIN/EYES.
Control Measures
Respiratory Protection: IF EXPOSURE CAN'T BE CONTROLLED | From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
Me Too, Kevin Klinefelter
Bishop CA A211
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Klaus Dietrich
Subject: Re: Sun 'N Fun
I should be there too.
Klaus (Mono 132)
"STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" wrote:
> I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to attend
Sun 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together some
afternoon or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday night
dinner.
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
> *****Please note new e-mail address******
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
For tool cleanup, any solvent (and evev
> non-solvents, as posted here, or mineral spirits) work.
It's even easier to treat brushes, mixing sticks and cups as disposible items.
It also makes the tidy up process a lot faster...just lob them into the rubbish
bag and walk out of the room - taking the pet alligator with you of course.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Fuller <alfuller(at)webworldinc.com> |
| Subject: | 000 birthday present |
Holy cow, Cleve!! Hang on to her, man. [Um, does she perchance have a
sister?.....]
Happy birthday!
Al.
At Thursday 04:35 PM2/28/2002, clevelee(at)cswebmail.com wrote:
>I'll be there with the woman who just bought me my $18000.00 firewall
>forward birthday present!
>
>Cleve Lee
>A198
>
> >
> > I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning to
> attend Sun 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together
> some afternoon or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored
> Monday night dinner.
> >
> > Garry V. Stout
> >
> > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> >
> > *****Please note new e-mail address******
> >
> >
>
>
>___________________________________________________
>The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
> Better! Faster! More Powerful!
> 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
> http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> |
Hi All!
Just a quick reminder that, while we do try to read messages on the Europa
Forum, we may not get to them all. I have noticed that sometimes messages
are posted to the forum that would be good information for Europa to have,
or even directed to us. If the e-mail doesn't go directly to someone at
Europa, however, it may get overlooked. That is a shame, as many of you
have some great input for us.
Here is a quick e-mail guide for sending messages to Europa.
For Tech Support inquiries:
neville@europa-aircraft.com
or
roger@europa-aircraft.com
*Suggestions for product, or plans improvements*: <--Many messages I see on
the forum should have gone here
andy@europa-aircraft.com
For kit sales, or parts outside North, or South America:
mark@europa-aircraft.com
or
toni@europa-aircraft.com
For kit sales, or parts within North or South America:
europa(at)gate.net
Hope this helps!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
europa(at)gate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eckel1(at)comcast.net |
I learned as a teenager how potent acetone is. I had an unmarked glass jar with
acetone in it. To find out what I had in the jar I opened the lid and took a
strong sniff. Instant headache. I use acetone on the Europa only when necessary
and I use vinegar for all my epoxy cleanup. It is cheap and you can drink
it.
Yesterday I bought a Safety Works Respirator. Good for paints, stripping paint,
pesticides/fertilizer, dust, and fiberglass. I used it today and did not smell
anything, it seemed to work well. It is not the most comfortable mask I have
worn, but it works the best. $28USD at Home Depot and it has replacable cartridges.
A small price for potentially flying the Europa for more years.
John Eckel, A230
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Acetone and MEK |
You DRINK vinegar????
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of eckel1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Acetone and MEK
I learned as a teenager how potent acetone is. I had an unmarked glass jar
with acetone in it. To find out what I had in the jar I opened the lid and
took a strong sniff. Instant headache. I use acetone on the Europa only
when necessary and I use vinegar for all my epoxy cleanup. It is cheap and
you can drink it.
Yesterday I bought a Safety Works Respirator. Good for paints, stripping
paint, pesticides/fertilizer, dust, and fiberglass. I used it today and did
not smell anything, it seemed to work well. It is not the most comfortable
mask I have worn, but it works the best. $28USD at Home Depot and it has
replacable cartridges. A small price for potentially flying the Europa for
more years.
John Eckel, A230
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone and MEK |
Subject: Re: Acetone and MEK
> You DRINK vinegar???? > Rob Housman > A070
...great with peanut butter and mustard.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Acetone and MEK |
| From: | "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org> |
Please excuse my ignorance as I am just now getting started on my Europa.
When do you HAVE to use acetone? There's been some talk about using
acetone to prepare a surface for bonding. When is acetone required to
assure a good bond?
Lyle Antieau
A137
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | AOA sensor position standardization |
All:
I'm getting close to installing a Proprietary Software Systems AOA sensor in my
wing.
After talking with those folks, there's apparently a lot of Europa builders doing
the same
thing, but going about it in very different ways. There are a two main issues
here:
1. Where is the optimal position for the sensor
2. How does one provide access to it?
PSS's comment is that they have been able to provide precalibrated AOA systems
and
optimal installation directions for RVs with the help and cooperation of the builder
community
and the factory. There appears to be enough users in the Europa community that
a
coordinated development of at least optimal installation instructions is feasible.
However, this
would really need the interest and involvement of the factory.
The second issue is seeing several approaches. The basic problem is that the sensor
bridges
the upper and lower skins forward of the spar, and therefore requires an additional
access
plate for maintenance. What is the structurally safest, or aerodynamically best,
way of doing
this?
Perhaps those that are in the middle of this could join in another discussion thread....
Shaun Simpkins
stuck in OR for SunN'Fun
A207
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eckel1(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone and MEK |
All I meant is it is not toxic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Re: Acetone and MEK
> You DRINK vinegar????
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Behalf Of eckel1(at)comcast.net
> Subject: Acetone and MEK
>
> I learned as a teenager how potent acetone is. I had an unmarked glass
jar
> with acetone in it. To find out what I had in the jar I opened the lid and
> took a strong sniff. Instant headache. I use acetone on the Europa only
> when necessary and I use vinegar for all my epoxy cleanup. It is cheap and
> you can drink it.
>
> Yesterday I bought a Safety Works Respirator. Good for paints, stripping
> paint, pesticides/fertilizer, dust, and fiberglass. I used it today and
did
> not smell anything, it seemed to work well. It is not the most
comfortable
> mask I have worn, but it works the best. $28USD at Home Depot and it has
> replacable cartridges. A small price for potentially flying the Europa for
> more years.
>
> John Eckel, A230
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
>The second issue is seeing several approaches. The basic problem is that
the sensor bridges
the upper and lower skins forward of the spar, and therefore requires an
additional access
plate for maintenance. What is the structurally safest, or aerodynamically
best, way of doing
this? <
-
Shaun
I am considering the same. I have found that the tubing will rout down the
rear of the spar and around the end of it. That will allow me to install
the ports of probe outboard of the last rib. Depending on which AOA I decide
on that is where I will pit it.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Shaun:
I'm not going either.............:-(
I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so don't think
I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long chat, the nub
of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing that's critical
is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the other. He said
the real comparison is between them rather than the proper readings of each.
Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the XS models.
Ferg
A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Shaun:
I should have added that I cottoned onto the AoA as the superior
one bfore I had closed my wings (foam). I hollowed out the tips for
electrical conduits to the root, and dug into the applicable lightening hole
far enough to install the probes from the inside out. I can reach smae
through a "drawer" I made in the tips to maintain my strobes and nav lights,
so reach the AoA probes by pulling out the 'drawer'.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Sorry, folk, I sent some out ill-addressed.
Nevertheless (and Notwithstanding) I seek the address of the subject John
Moran whose A044 I presume is now flying and off the net.
It was to beg a copy of an earlier message rearding fusible links
and my printer went doodoo and I lost the content.
Thanks
ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>I'll have to look them up. I pass not to far from there. I did meet up
>with Barry Tennant last year over at Nordhorn, Germany, and flew in his
>Europa. What a great time and a great plane.
>
>Chris
Henk Roelofs might find Henk, He speaks good English,
Bart less good. Good guys to know, there is also Jac Heijboer who I think
is based at Seppe.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Karl Faller <100725.3150(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Messages to Europa |
John,
while i appreciate your expression of interest for the info this forum
transports , i can't resist to express my dislike of the "interface" you
offer.
I.e., what if "mark" changes his function, "andy" leaves ship etc.etc.
Do you really want to do a mailing telling us to substitue "mark" with
"eve"?
So, why not:
tech@europa-aircraft.com
sugestions@europa-aircraft.com
sales-US@europa-aircraft.com
...
just my 0.2
Karl Faller
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Here is how I installed the ports on my XS wing (the a/c is not yet flying
so I can't vouch for the locations):
The port on the top surface of the wing is located 6 inch / 152 mm forward
of the leading edge of the wing spar, and 12-5/8 inch / 321 mm inboard of
the wing tip, or alternatively the port is 126-5/8 inch / 3216 mm, measured
outboard from the inboard surface of the root rib.
In my case access to the ports is straightforward because I have cutouts in
each wingtip for position lights and strobes so I only need remove the
covers and lights to be able to reach (barely) the sensors. However, it is
not likely that these inanimate objects will ever need to be reached from
within. The pneumatic tubes are routed through the ribs in the same manner
as the factory's pitot tubing, so neither can be replaced easily. I am
trusting PVC tubing that is not exposed to sunlight to last forever.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins
Subject: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
All:
I'm getting close to installing a Proprietary Software Systems AOA sensor in
my wing.
After talking with those folks, there's apparently a lot of Europa builders
doing the same
thing, but going about it in very different ways. There are a two main
issues here:
1. Where is the optimal position for the sensor
2. How does one provide access to it?
PSS's comment is that they have been able to provide precalibrated AOA
systems and
optimal installation directions for RVs with the help and cooperation of the
builder community
and the factory. There appears to be enough users in the Europa community
that a
coordinated development of at least optimal installation instructions is
feasible. However, this
would really need the interest and involvement of the factory.
The second issue is seeing several approaches. The basic problem is that
the sensor bridges
the upper and lower skins forward of the spar, and therefore requires an
additional access
plate for maintenance. What is the structurally safest, or aerodynamically
best, way of doing
this?
Perhaps those that are in the middle of this could join in another
discussion thread....
Shaun Simpkins
stuck in OR for SunN'Fun
A207
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
| From: | "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com> |
If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not line
the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip to
trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts the
ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the lower port
closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole through
the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the cover
when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines out to
the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing wiring.
BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to include
it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa a/c.
Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap from gear
extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate, I've
asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will keep
you up dated.
Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting. Which I
should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the Europa
dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a chance to
see the many varietys we are doing.
Jim Nelson
A058 N15JN
> Shaun:
> I'm not going either.............:-(
> I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so don't
> think
> I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long chat,
> the nub
> of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing that's
> critical
> is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the other.
> He said
> the real comparison is between them rather than the proper readings
> of each.
> Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the XS
> models.
> Ferg
> A064
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary R. Roberts" <roberts3(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Received my PSS AOA some time ago. Disconnect for the tubes consists of 2
threaded brass nipples and a female barrel. Rather like a turnbuckle
arrangement. I'm still looking for a better "quick disconnect" system along
the lines of Europa's pitot line bayonet system. Any ideas?
Gary R. Roberts
Europa Kit A187
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
............ BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I
am
> getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to include
> it with the kit. .........
Jim Nelson
A058 N15JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Wow, what rapid responses!
In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
conundrum.
One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the airfoil
is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy
switch.
Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit board with
an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the product
development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
comments
from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being underdamped,
which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the
software.
Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt to
put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little incentive
for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It needs to
be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window during
landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of the
glareshield.
Continue!
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not line
> the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip to
> trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts the
> ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the lower port
> closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole through
> the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the cover
> when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines out to
> the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing wiring.
> BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to include
> it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa a/c.
> Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap from gear
> extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate, I've
> asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will keep
> you up dated.
> Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting. Which I
> should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the Europa
> dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a chance to
> see the many varietys we are doing.
>
>
> Jim Nelson
>
> A058 N15JN
>
>
> > Shaun:
> > I'm not going either.............:-(
> > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so don't
> > think
> > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long chat,
> > the nub
> > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing that's
> > critical
> > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the other.
> > He said
> > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper readings
> > of each.
> > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the XS
> > models.
> > Ferg
> > A064
> >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom & Cathy Friedland <tfriedland(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John J Moran A044 |
Ferg: johnjmoran(at)aol.com will work I think.
Tom
Fergus Kyle wrote:
> Sorry, folk, I sent some out ill-addressed.
> Nevertheless (and Notwithstanding) I seek the address of the subject John
> Moran whose A044 I presume is now flying and off the net.
> It was to beg a copy of an earlier message rearding fusible links
> and my printer went doodoo and I lost the content.
> Thanks
> ferg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Rob Housman wrote:
> ...
> In my case access to the ports is straightforward because I have cutouts in
> each wingtip for position lights and strobes so I only need remove the
> covers and lights to be able to reach (barely) the sensors. However, it is
> not likely that these inanimate objects will ever need to be reached from
> within. The pneumatic tubes are routed through the ribs in the same manner
> as the factory's pitot tubing, so neither can be replaced easily. I am
> trusting PVC tubing that is not exposed to sunlight to last forever.
I don't this AOA setup, so just musing, but I wonder about the
implications of clogging, and whether the ports could be cleaned out
effectively w/o removal. One could be careful with wax, but all it
takes is one skillful bird, thinking that topside port is a
dive-bombing target!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | rietary Software AoA SHAUN |
Shaun,
Stop!
I was wrong, and Jim Nelson is right! I was writing from
memory - and that doesn't work. I just ran up to check and I'm OK, so I hope
you are too. As mentioned, I ran the conduit out to the tip where I have a
removable 'drawer' for the lights, then ran it down the back of the spar.
I have heard several times that the spar is not really needed
outboard of the outriggers, but don't like tricking Mother Nature, so it
might be possible to go through it to the back, but only on the foam wings.
Thanks to James for info on the disconnects........ Will ask for
them 4thwith.
Apologies again,
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
>>I don't have this AOA setup, so just musing, but I wonder about the
implications of clogging, and whether the ports could be cleaned out
effectively w/o removal. One could be careful with wax, but all it takes is
one skillful bird, thinking that topside port is a dive-bombing target!
Regards, Fred F.<<<
Fred,
Valid suspicion, but think those glider stickers the boys use to
block various openings would be ideal for apres-vol and trailer-time, let
alone rain and bird-thing.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John J Moran A044 |
Ferg,
I have been recently corresponding with john on jmoran01(at)earthlink.net
Regards, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: John J Moran A044
> Sorry, folk, I sent some out ill-addressed.
> Nevertheless (and Notwithstanding) I seek the address of the subject John
> Moran whose A044 I presume is now flying and off the net.
> It was to beg a copy of an earlier message rearding fusible links
> and my printer went doodoo and I lost the content.
> Thanks
> ferg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kenneth Whiteley <kenwhit(at)kenwhit.demon.co.uk> |
In message <00c101c1b286$ff4eca40$15133fd4@033753777>, RWM-SYSTEMS
<raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi> writes
>
>How can I know it is good enough?
>
A good guide is that, with a control stick in position, it should self-
centre when the stick is released (with the cockpit unit inverted). The
use of flox can upset the alignment when you come to fit it. A number of
people have used the flox to provide the load spreading area, but have
not actually bonded the Tufnol to it. This gives the opportunity for a
second (or ...tenth) opportunity to adjust the alignment.
Ken Whiteley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jdavey(at)avantgo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
Congratulations, Martin and Christine.
I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups
at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerAvator(at)aol.com |
Not to mention that the residue left from burning the kerosene can leave a
film on your composite parts and cause later de-lamination which
potentionally have catastrophic results.
David G Holmes
________________________________________________________________________________
<4DF97AE39ABDD411872800B0D0797B8B8569F6(at)ukexchange.avantgo.com>
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
>Can anyone comment on the _relative_ nastiness of acetone and MEK
A couple of observations:
Acetone is sold (in small quantities) as nail-varnish remover - would
this be permitted if it was lethal?
I seem to remember that MEK was used as a solvent for the adhesive on
shrink-film coverings for model aeroplanes, and that one of the
cautions I saw printed back then was that MEK could cause blindness
if it gets in the eye.
I am using acetone as a brush and scissor cleaner, but I always wear
my (activated-charcoal) mask for all operations involving epoxy,
including cleanup.
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
>We all need to wear nametags or something to help ID ourselves as
>fellow builders/flyers
Europa Club members could wear their membership badges ......
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
I found it curious also, in browsing MSDS for various things, that
both solvents are hazardous in pure form, but less so when diluted
with more benign solvents. An example is common paint spray in a can,
with majority toluene, but with some bad stuff. For latter, I don't
think there's been major product liability judgments here, and most
consumers don't follow the label cautions at all.
Regards,
Fred F.
> >Can anyone comment on the _relative_ nastiness of acetone and MEK
>
> A couple of observations:
>
> Acetone is sold (in small quantities) as nail-varnish remover - would
> this be permitted if it was lethal?
>
> I seem to remember that MEK was used as a solvent for the adhesive on
> shrink-film coverings for model aeroplanes, and that one of the
> cautions I saw printed back then was that MEK could cause blindness
> if it gets in the eye.
>
> I am using acetone as a brush and scissor cleaner, but I always wear
> my (activated-charcoal) mask for all operations involving epoxy,
> including cleanup.
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
No! No! Jeremy. You've got it wrong.....
finish the lay-ups at about 2200 hours and at 0300 hours when she wakes for
her feed you get to do the trimming, 'cos that's when it's ready and cuts
like butter! Then when they've settled down you can creep back to bed ready
to "over lie" !! Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G=PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Congratulations, Martin and Christine.
I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups
at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: acetone & MEK |
Acetone and MEK are both hazardous for human contact. Putting either one on
your hands will result in the solvents getting in your bloodstream within
seconds then your kidneys. Wear proper protection (respirator, gloves) or
use another product.
James Thursby
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
Can anyone comment on the _relative_ nastiness of acetone and MEK, please?
Being about to start building, I'll be getting one or the other in the next
week. I don't mind using more solvent and paying more money if that means
less risk to my health - and Tony's comment on MEK show sound reasons for
concern.
Thanks for any help anyone can offer.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Tony S. Krzyzewski
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
Subject: Re: acetone & MEK
I'll add a caution here about MEK which hasn't been voiced on the group
for a few years. This is an extremely strong solvent and, like acetone,
is capable of passing through the pores of the skin.
Effects of methyl ethyl ketone on human health depend on how much MEK is
present and the length and frequency of
exposure. Effects also depend on the health of a person or the
condition of the environment when exposure occurs.
Breathing MEK for short periods of time, such as when painting in a
poorly vented area, can adversely affect the nervous system. Effects
range from headaches, dizziness, nausea, and numbness in fingers and
toes to unconsciousness. MEK vapour irritates the eyes, the nose, and
the throat. Direct, prolonged contact with liquid methyl ethyl ketone
irritates the skin and damages the eyes.
When using MEK (or acetone) always wear protective gloves and use a face
mask and goggles. Never use MEK or acetone to clean your hands.
Build safe.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
Aint it funny, whatever time you do the layup, the best time to knife trim
is always 3a.m. in the morning!!
Richard Iddon 533
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
No! No! Jeremy. You've got it wrong.....
finish the lay-ups at about 2200 hours and at 0300 hours when she wakes for
her feed you get to do the trimming, 'cos that's when it's ready and cuts
like butter! Then when they've settled down you can creep back to bed ready
to "over lie" !! Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G=PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Congratulations, Martin and Christine.
I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups
at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MELVYNBS(at)aol.com |
We'll be lookin for ya mate. It'll be fun in the sun with a pony tail bun!
mel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
| From: | "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Gary,
I also got two disconnects from Europa with the smallest tube
barbs, one for the lower port and one for the upper. They may be the
best of the disconnects. There is also one that glider guys use but it
can disconnect five lines if you want. It costs $38.00 US so its not
cheep. I bought one but somehow in the ensuing years I've misplaced it
and now I can't find it. So, its check out the cheep versions first and
if need be I'll do the five line model again.
Jim Nelson
AMG058 N15JN
writes:
> Received my PSS AOA some time ago. Disconnect for the tubes consists
> of 2
> threaded brass nipples and a female barrel. Rather like a
> turnbuckle
> arrangement. I'm still looking for a better "quick disconnect"
> system along
> the lines of Europa's pitot line bayonet system. Any ideas?
>
> Gary R. Roberts
> Europa Kit A187
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position
> standardization
>
>
> ............ BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their
> tubes. I
> am
> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> include
> > it with the kit. .........
> Jim Nelson
> A058 N15JN
>
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Low pressure fuel switch |
0.05 to 0.15 bar. The range presumably represents the hysteresis in the diaphragm.
And its actually an oil pressure sensor, although I understand that others have
used it for fuel.
Duncan McFadyean
On Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:19 PM, Ron Jones [SMTP:jronjones(at)lineone.net]
wrote:
> Bosch do a low fuel-pressure switch. P/number 0/344 101 055.
> Don't know what pressure it indicates at, though!
> Regards to all,
> Ron Jones.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
The people who supply the Europa plastic pitot quick disconnects (Parkers, I
think) do a 2 line coaxial version (whick I'm using as I have static in the
wing too)
M
> Received my PSS AOA some time ago. Disconnect for the tubes consists of 2
> threaded brass nipples and a female barrel. Rather like a turnbuckle
> arrangement. I'm still looking for a better "quick disconnect" system
along
> the lines of Europa's pitot line bayonet system. Any ideas?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
A follow up for the group:
I am the human canary who gets headaches consistently from working around
epoxy. I took the following action this weekend:
Total clean up including eliminating the bench wood that had drops of uncured
resin and hardener, removal of all containers to another location, Vacuuming
the entire shop and positive ventilation.
The result this morning was NO HEADACHE! I believe what has been happening is
the epoxy does not cure for quite some time and continues to outgas for
likely 48 hours or so - depending on the shop temperature. In the past, I
would go out and work the following morning thinking the cure was done
overnight and was small - so I wouldn't need a mask.
The new policy will be to leave my lay-ups to do for the end of the weekend's
work and not enter the shop for at least two days, unless wearing the
respirator.
So far, so good. Thanks to everyone who helped with suggestions. I am
encouraged at this point.
Dave A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Watts" <dg.watts(at)virgin.net> |
I'll be there with my wife Marion.
Pete Kember will be with us as well.
Dave Watts G-BXDY
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Kenneth,
maybe I was lucky but I think my links work just perfect.
I used plenty of flox and found no problem.
Last weekend I installed both wings to cockpit modul
and I am so happy: ailerons move smoothly when turning
stick left-right. Those bell cranks works also nicely;
with alignment of their pivot bolts I was really lucky.
Thank you for advice.
Cheers, Raimo #417
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Whiteley <kenwhit(at)kenwhit.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: friction
> In message <00c101c1b286$ff4eca40$15133fd4@033753777>, RWM-SYSTEMS
> <raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi> writes
> >
> >How can I know it is good enough?
> >
> A good guide is that, with a control stick in position, it should self-
> centre when the stick is released (with the cockpit unit inverted). The
> use of flox can upset the alignment when you come to fit it. A number of
> people have used the flox to provide the load spreading area, but have
> not actually bonded the Tufnol to it. This gives the opportunity for a
> second (or ...tenth) opportunity to adjust the alignment.
>
> Ken Whiteley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Hi Shaun,
I have a PSS AOA unit and have nearly finished my preliminary 40 hours test program.
So far, I have
had the breaker pulled on the unit but hope to do the calibration in the next week
or so.
Per Jim Frantz's recommendation at PSS, I located the pick up holes about 12" from
the tip and at
25% chord. This puts them in front of the spar. The pickups were offset spanwise
by about 2 " so that
the fittings did not interfere. I cut and fabricated a reinforced access hatch
on the lower surface
(somewhat like the aileron bellcrank hatches) adjacent to the pickups to facilitate
installation. I
also remember cutting another small access hole on the top surface and this was
resealed later. I
found this access was necessary so that the bottom ports could be fitted.
I will let you know how things work out and will be happy to supply any data if
you wish to gather
same.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, A099
Mooresville, North Carolina
Shaun Simpkins wrote:
> All:
>
> I'm getting close to installing a Proprietary Software Systems AOA sensor in
my wing.
> After talking with those folks, there's apparently a lot of Europa builders doing
the same
> thing, but going about it in very different ways. There are a two main issues
here:
> 1. Where is the optimal position for the sensor
> 2. How does one provide access to it?
>
> PSS's comment is that they have been able to provide precalibrated AOA systems
and
> optimal installation directions for RVs with the help and cooperation of the
builder community
> and the factory. There appears to be enough users in the Europa community that
a
> coordinated development of at least optimal installation instructions is feasible.
However, this
> would really need the interest and involvement of the factory.
>
> The second issue is seeing several approaches. The basic problem is that the
sensor bridges
> the upper and lower skins forward of the spar, and therefore requires an additional
access
> plate for maintenance. What is the structurally safest, or aerodynamically best,
way of doing
> this?
>
> Perhaps those that are in the middle of this could join in another discussion
thread....
>
> Shaun Simpkins
> stuck in OR for SunN'Fun_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Parker's Pneutronics Division ( http://www.pneutronics.com) has a couple of
multi-position pneumatic connectors: Series 22, which are snap-together
plastic
quickconnects designed like electronic edge connectors - just snap together
as
many as you need. Has guide pins. Series 44, which is a circular style
quickconnect
with as many as 8 lines.
Denis Vories created a electrical/pneumatic quick connect that automatically
hooks
up everything when the wing is shoved home. Perhaps this connector system
was
what he used?
The factory makes the comment that the pitot/static connectors are supplied
separate
and with male on one/female on the other so that you can connect them
together
when the wings are off the fuselage to keep dirt out of the system. No
comment
on the above quickconnects as to whether they are dual-shutoff types.
Wouldn't
matter, the ends wouldn't stay clean without a mating cap ...
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> Gary,
> I also got two disconnects from Europa with the smallest tube
> barbs, one for the lower port and one for the upper. They may be the
> best of the disconnects. There is also one that glider guys use but it
> can disconnect five lines if you want. It costs $38.00 US so its not
> cheep. I bought one but somehow in the ensuing years I've misplaced it
> and now I can't find it. So, its check out the cheep versions first and
> if need be I'll do the five line model again.
>
>
> Jim Nelson
>
> AMG058 N15JN
>
>
> writes:
> > Received my PSS AOA some time ago. Disconnect for the tubes consists
> > of 2
> > threaded brass nipples and a female barrel. Rather like a
> > turnbuckle
> > arrangement. I'm still looking for a better "quick disconnect"
> > system along
> > the lines of Europa's pitot line bayonet system. Any ideas?
> >
> > Gary R. Roberts
> > Europa Kit A187
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position
> > standardization
> >
> >
> > ............ BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their
> > tubes. I
> > am
> > > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> > include
> > > it with the kit. .........
> > Jim Nelson
> > A058 N15JN
> >
> >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
Three new items.
One, from Bob Harrison, is a splendid new picture of G-PTAG and is on the front
page of Bob's extensive section on the site.
The other two are from Graham Clarke (who built G-EMIN, but no longer owns it).
The first is an updated version of his program to calculate the position of the
C of G of the Europa. It is now on Graham's section of the site (the previous
version was under 'Miscellaneous').
The second is a simulator program for the Europa (which is mentioned in passing
at the end of Graham's description of his EFIS, already on the site). This is
a
free standing program, not an adjunct to a commercial FS program.
See their respective sections on http://www.crix.org.uk
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jdavey(at)avantgo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone and MEK |
I had a friend who used to do that as a party trick... I thought he was
unique, until now.
On a more serious point, many thanks to all who commented on MEK vs. acetone
- your advice and effort is much appreciated.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: 01 March 2002 19:07
Subject: Re: Acetone and MEK
You DRINK vinegar????
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of eckel1(at)comcast.net
Subject: Acetone and MEK
I learned as a teenager how potent acetone is. I had an unmarked glass jar
with acetone in it. To find out what I had in the jar I opened the lid and
took a strong sniff. Instant headache. I use acetone on the Europa only
when necessary and I use vinegar for all my epoxy cleanup. It is cheap and
you can drink it.
Yesterday I bought a Safety Works Respirator. Good for paints, stripping
paint, pesticides/fertilizer, dust, and fiberglass. I used it today and did
not smell anything, it seemed to work well. It is not the most comfortable
mask I have worn, but it works the best. $28USD at Home Depot and it has
replacable cartridges. A small price for potentially flying the Europa for
more years.
John Eckel, A230
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
Uhmnn...just where is this website?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Cowl Flaps
> I didn't realise how much interest my inflight adjustable cowl flaps would
> create - 15 requests for the photos so far. Mark Jackson has offered to
put
> them on his website so to avoid everyone having to put up with a large
> download I will pass them on to him for publishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
I note that the 5-port quick-connect Jim Nelson refers to is offered by
Winter instruments
and can be purchased at http://www.wingsandwheels.com. This is a pretty
cool unit
with color-coded connectors. However, it's designed for 3/16" I.D. tubing.
I guess those
glider guys use big-bore tubing for quick response...
I also note that the Pneutronics connectors I mentioned - Series 22 - use
0.078 I.D connectors,
which are really too small.
http://www.smallparts.com has a bunch of the 1/8" quick connects including
the
coaxial connector mentioned in this thread.
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> Parker's Pneutronics Division ( http://www.pneutronics.com) has a couple
of
> multi-position pneumatic connectors: Series 22, which are snap-together
> plastic
> quickconnects designed like electronic edge connectors - just snap
together
> as
> many as you need. Has guide pins. Series 44, which is a circular style
> quickconnect
> with as many as 8 lines.
>
> Denis Vories created a electrical/pneumatic quick connect that
automatically
> hooks
> up everything when the wing is shoved home. Perhaps this connector system
> was
> what he used?
>
> The factory makes the comment that the pitot/static connectors are
supplied
> separate
> and with male on one/female on the other so that you can connect them
> together
> when the wings are off the fuselage to keep dirt out of the system. No
> comment
> on the above quickconnects as to whether they are dual-shutoff types.
> Wouldn't
> matter, the ends wouldn't stay clean without a mating cap ...
>
> Shaun
> A207
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
>
>
> > Gary,
> > I also got two disconnects from Europa with the smallest tube
> > barbs, one for the lower port and one for the upper. They may be the
> > best of the disconnects. There is also one that glider guys use but it
> > can disconnect five lines if you want. It costs $38.00 US so its not
> > cheep. I bought one but somehow in the ensuing years I've misplaced it
> > and now I can't find it. So, its check out the cheep versions first and
> > if need be I'll do the five line model again.
> >
> >
> > Jim Nelson
> >
> > AMG058 N15JN
> >
> >
> > writes:
> > > Received my PSS AOA some time ago. Disconnect for the tubes consists
> > > of 2
> > > threaded brass nipples and a female barrel. Rather like a
> > > turnbuckle
> > > arrangement. I'm still looking for a better "quick disconnect"
> > > system along
> > > the lines of Europa's pitot line bayonet system. Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Gary R. Roberts
> > > Europa Kit A187
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> > > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position
> > > standardization
> > >
> > >
> > > ............ BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their
> > > tubes. I
> > > am
> > > > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> > > include
> > > > it with the kit. .........
> > > Jim Nelson
> > > A058 N15JN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Jones" <jronjones(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low pressure fuel switch |
Thanks for the info, Duncan.
David, where do I find OEM Automatic?
Ron Jones.
(No. 359. G-RJWX)
________________________________________________________________________________
<001b01c1c3ba$c7c081a0$6da45e82@shauns>
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
>Uhmnn...just where is this website?
Have a look for 087 Mark Jackson on the "builders" page of the Europa
Club website at <http://www.europaclub.org.uk> - and have a look
around the other pages then let me know if you think there's anything
else ought to be on the Club website ....
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
I am planning on attending Arlington this year if all goes as planned
with the plane.
Erich Trombley
A028
writes:
> Sheesh, guys, I feel left out. I can't go to SunN'Fun. Isn't
> anybody going
> to Arlington?
>
> Shaun
> A207
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TroyMaynor(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Sun 'N Fun
>
>
> > Hi All,
> > A flying buddy and I will be there from Sunday til about Thursday
> or
> Friday.
> > We will be in the camp ground.
> > Suggestion: We all need to wear nametags or something to help ID
> ourselves
> as
> > fellow builders/flyers. There's times I go wandering through the
> Europa
> tent
> > where a crowd is gathered and it would be nice to put a face with
> a
> familiar
> > name from the forum, (at least at the factory get together on
> Monday.) Are
> > you reading this John?
> >
> > Troy
> > N120EU
> >
> > In a message dated 2/28/02 2:05:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > rholder(at)avnet.co.uk writes:
> >
> > << I am planning to attend - flying in on Monday and leaving on
> Thursday.
> > Arriving in a Cessna 172 from Eagle Crest, Delaware.
> >
> > 'Supposed to be sleeping under the wing - but that doesn't sound
> all that
> > comfortable !
> >
> > Recognition may be difficult, but I'm 6ft 2in, with round glasses
> and a
> > ponytail ! And of course I speak with a British accent !
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
> -
> > Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
> > Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
> > Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
> > SG12 8SH, England email :
> rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
> >
>
> -
> > PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
> > Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
> >
>
> -
> >
> > >
> > > I was just wondering how many folks on this forum are planning
> to
> attend
> > Sun
> > > 'N Fun this year. Does anyone plan to organize a get-together
> some
> > afternoon
> > > or evening........other than the "Factory" sponsored Monday
> night
> dinner.
> > >
> > > Garry V. Stout
> > >
> > > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> > >
> > >>
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on the
pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased only
the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on which
version.
Erich Trombley
A028
writes:
> Wow, what rapid responses!
>
> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> conundrum.
> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> airfoil
> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the
> easy
> switch.
> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> board with
> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
>
> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> product
> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> comments
> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> underdamped,
> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of
> the
> software.
>
> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> to
> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> incentive
> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> needs to
> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> during
> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> the
> glareshield.
>
> Continue!
>
> Shaun
> A207
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
>
>
> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> line
> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> to
> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> the
> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> lower port
> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> through
> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> cover
> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> out to
> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> wiring.
> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> include
> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> a/c.
> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> from gear
> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> I've
> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> keep
> > you up dated.
> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> Which I
> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> Europa
> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> chance to
> > see the many varietys we are doing.
> >
> >
> > Jim Nelson
> >
> > A058 N15JN
> >
> >
> writes:
> > > Shaun:
> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> don't
> > > think
> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> chat,
> > > the nub
> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> that's
> > > critical
> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> other.
> > > He said
> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> readings
> > > of each.
> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> XS
> > > models.
> > > Ferg
> > > A064
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> Uhmnn...just where is this website?
http://harley.geog.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa/NigelCharles/
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
| From: | "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org> |
I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should
probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have
a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version
have a stall warning horn?
Lyle Antieau
A137
> Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on
> the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased
> only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on
> which version.
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
>
> writes:
>> Wow, what rapid responses!
>>
>> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
>> conundrum.
>> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
>> airfoil
>> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy
>> switch.
>> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
>> board with
>> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
>> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
>>
>> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
>> product
>> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
>> comments
>> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
>> underdamped,
>> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the
>> software.
>>
>> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
>> to
>> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
>> incentive
>> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
>> needs to
>> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
>> during
>> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
>> the
>> glareshield.
>>
>> Continue!
>>
>> Shaun
>> A207
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
>> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
>>
>>
>> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
>> line
>> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
>> to
>> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
>> the
>> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
>> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
>> lower port
>> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
>> through
>> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
>> cover
>> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
>> out to
>> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
>> wiring.
>> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
>> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
>> include
>> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
>> a/c.
>> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
>> from gear
>> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
>> I've
>> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
>> keep
>> > you up dated.
>> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
>> Which I
>> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
>> Europa
>> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
>> chance to
>> > see the many varietys we are doing.
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim Nelson
>> >
>> > A058 N15JN
>> >
>> >
>> writes:
>> > > Shaun:
>> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
>> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
>> don't
>> > > think
>> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
>> chat,
>> > > the nub
>> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
>> that's
>> > > critical
>> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
>> other.
>> > > He said
>> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
>> readings
>> > > of each.
>> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
>> XS
>> > > models.
>> > > Ferg
>> > > A064
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
Hopefully layups start this weekend - so I guess I better get a Dremel... I
get enough grief about getting up at 5.45 to go to work...
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 02 March 2002 22:00
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Aint it funny, whatever time you do the layup, the best time to knife trim
is always 3a.m. in the morning!!
Richard Iddon 533
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
No! No! Jeremy. You've got it wrong.....
finish the lay-ups at about 2200 hours and at 0300 hours when she wakes for
her feed you get to do the trimming, 'cos that's when it's ready and cuts
like butter! Then when they've settled down you can creep back to bed ready
to "over lie" !! Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G=PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Congratulations, Martin and Christine.
I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups
at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: acetone & Nuclear Fusion : ) |
Tiny bubbles imploding in a solution of acetone may have generated nuclear
fusion, Russian and U.S. scientists said Monday, in an experiment that, if
confirmed, represents a giant advance in nuclear physics.
The experiment was run in a series of beakers that would take up only a
corner of any tabletop, using what amounts to souped-up nail polish remover
and sound waves.
1279815&shortdate=0305
So keep your acetone away from the stereo!
SteveD. : )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
PSS' website is http://www.angle-of-attack.com. The Sport costs $890, the
Professional $1500.
The major difference is in the display, and most purchasers ( according to
the company ) buy the
Sport, since it gives the same information, including synthesized voice
warnings, and it's a whole
lot smaller so it fits on the glareshield better. The Pro has a digital AOA
readout and a more
complicated display.
The last time I checked with PSS they would sell you the sensor alone for
$450. I'm not sure if
you pay a bit more in total to split your order this way.
Has anyone out there used larger I.D. pneumatic tubing for their
Pitot-Static runs than the standard
1/4" OD 1/8" ID supplied?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should
> probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have
> a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version
> have a stall warning horn?
>
> Lyle Antieau
> A137
>
> > Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on
> > the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased
> > only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on
> > which version.
> >
> > Erich Trombley
> > A028
> >
> > writes:
> >> Wow, what rapid responses!
> >>
> >> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> >> conundrum.
> >> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> >> airfoil
> >> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy
> >> switch.
> >> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> >> board with
> >> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> >> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
> >>
> >> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> >> product
> >> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> >> comments
> >> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> >> underdamped,
> >> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the
> >> software.
> >>
> >> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> >> to
> >> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> >> incentive
> >> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> >> needs to
> >> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> >> during
> >> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> >> the
> >> glareshield.
> >>
> >> Continue!
> >>
> >> Shaun
> >> A207
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> >> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> >>
> >>
> >> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> >> line
> >> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> >> to
> >> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> >> the
> >> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> >> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> >> lower port
> >> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> >> through
> >> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> >> cover
> >> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> >> out to
> >> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> >> wiring.
> >> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> >> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> >> include
> >> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> >> a/c.
> >> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> >> from gear
> >> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> >> I've
> >> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> >> keep
> >> > you up dated.
> >> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> >> Which I
> >> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> >> Europa
> >> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> >> chance to
> >> > see the many varietys we are doing.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jim Nelson
> >> >
> >> > A058 N15JN
> >> >
> >> >
> >> writes:
> >> > > Shaun:
> >> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> >> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> >> don't
> >> > > think
> >> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> >> chat,
> >> > > the nub
> >> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> >> that's
> >> > > critical
> >> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> >> other.
> >> > > He said
> >> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> >> readings
> >> > > of each.
> >> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> >> XS
> >> > > models.
> >> > > Ferg
> >> > > A064
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Erich:
Much as I would have like the "Pro" indicator, I decided that
the lower priced one, suitably situated in the windshield coaming, would do
as good a job without all the details.
Ferg
A064
----- Original Message -----
From: <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on the
> pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased only
> the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on which
> version.
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
>
> writes:
> > Wow, what rapid responses!
> >
> > In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> > conundrum.
> > One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> > airfoil
> > is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the
> > easy
> > switch.
> > Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> > board with
> > an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> > microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
> >
> > PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> > product
> > development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> > comments
> > from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> > underdamped,
> > which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of
> > the
> > software.
> >
> > Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> > to
> > put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> > incentive
> > for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> > needs to
> > be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> > during
> > landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> > the
> > glareshield.
> >
> > Continue!
> >
> > Shaun
> > A207
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> > Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> >
> >
> > > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> > line
> > > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> > to
> > > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> > the
> > > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> > > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> > lower port
> > > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> > through
> > > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> > cover
> > > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> > out to
> > > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> > wiring.
> > > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> > > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> > include
> > > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> > a/c.
> > > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> > from gear
> > > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> > I've
> > > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> > keep
> > > you up dated.
> > > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> > Which I
> > > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> > Europa
> > > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> > chance to
> > > see the many varietys we are doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Nelson
> > >
> > > A058 N15JN
> > >
> > >
> > writes:
> > > > Shaun:
> > > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> > > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> > don't
> > > > think
> > > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> > chat,
> > > > the nub
> > > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> > that's
> > > > critical
> > > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> > other.
> > > > He said
> > > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> > readings
> > > > of each.
> > > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> > XS
> > > > models.
> > > > Ferg
> > > > A064
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: New future Europa pilot ... |
Hi! Jeremy/Richard etc.
In my humble opinion...... You don't need a dremmel for trimming (You do for
other purposes) my trimming experiences were best accommodated by a knife
trim at the critical time then a long sanding board to tidy up to a good
straight line. Except if you miss time the knife part you'll need a hand
held type fine toothed hacksaw blade initially.
Sorry ...just trying to be helpful .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Hopefully layups start this weekend - so I guess I better get a Dremel... I
get enough grief about getting up at 5.45 to go to work...
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Sent: 02 March 2002 22:00
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Aint it funny, whatever time you do the layup, the best time to knife trim
is always 3a.m. in the morning!!
Richard Iddon 533
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
No! No! Jeremy. You've got it wrong.....
finish the lay-ups at about 2200 hours and at 0300 hours when she wakes for
her feed you get to do the trimming, 'cos that's when it's ready and cuts
like butter! Then when they've settled down you can creep back to bed ready
to "over lie" !! Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G=PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com
Subject: Re: New future Europa pilot ...
Congratulations, Martin and Christine.
I hope both ladies are doing well. Please resist the temptation to do layups
at 3 in the morning when Elizabeth keeps you up!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Sent: 28 February 2002 02:43
Subject: New future Europa pilot ...
Hi Folks,
Yes, my wife Christine and I have a new daughter.
Elizabeth was born on Sunday 24th February and weighed in at 8 lb. 1 oz.
For those interested photos can be found at:
http://ourworld.cs.com/ElizabethTuckPix
Now .... anyone have a mod to fit a carseat in a Europa?
Best wishes,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Iddon" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Being a relatively inexperienced pilot, I've never come across an AOA sensor
before, just a stall warner on the cherokees & cessna's I learned in. I've
looked at the web site but what are forum members experiences of this
equipment, is it worth the bucks and can I get one in the UK?
Richard Iddon ( nearly finished my wings) 533
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
PSS' website is http://www.angle-of-attack.com. The Sport costs $890, the
Professional $1500.
The major difference is in the display, and most purchasers ( according to
the company ) buy the
Sport, since it gives the same information, including synthesized voice
warnings, and it's a whole
lot smaller so it fits on the glareshield better. The Pro has a digital AOA
readout and a more
complicated display.
The last time I checked with PSS they would sell you the sensor alone for
$450. I'm not sure if
you pay a bit more in total to split your order this way.
Has anyone out there used larger I.D. pneumatic tubing for their
Pitot-Static runs than the standard
1/4" OD 1/8" ID supplied?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should
> probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have
> a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version
> have a stall warning horn?
>
> Lyle Antieau
> A137
>
> > Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on
> > the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased
> > only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on
> > which version.
> >
> > Erich Trombley
> > A028
> >
> > writes:
> >> Wow, what rapid responses!
> >>
> >> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> >> conundrum.
> >> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> >> airfoil
> >> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy
> >> switch.
> >> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> >> board with
> >> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> >> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
> >>
> >> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> >> product
> >> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> >> comments
> >> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> >> underdamped,
> >> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the
> >> software.
> >>
> >> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> >> to
> >> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> >> incentive
> >> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> >> needs to
> >> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> >> during
> >> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> >> the
> >> glareshield.
> >>
> >> Continue!
> >>
> >> Shaun
> >> A207
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> >> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> >>
> >>
> >> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> >> line
> >> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> >> to
> >> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> >> the
> >> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> >> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> >> lower port
> >> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> >> through
> >> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> >> cover
> >> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> >> out to
> >> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> >> wiring.
> >> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> >> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> >> include
> >> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> >> a/c.
> >> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> >> from gear
> >> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> >> I've
> >> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> >> keep
> >> > you up dated.
> >> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> >> Which I
> >> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> >> Europa
> >> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> >> chance to
> >> > see the many varietys we are doing.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jim Nelson
> >> >
> >> > A058 N15JN
> >> >
> >> >
> >> writes:
> >> > > Shaun:
> >> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> >> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> >> don't
> >> > > think
> >> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> >> chat,
> >> > > the nub
> >> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> >> that's
> >> > > critical
> >> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> >> other.
> >> > > He said
> >> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> >> readings
> >> > > of each.
> >> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> >> XS
> >> > > models.
> >> > > Ferg
> >> > > A064
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | x 914-avgas or Mogas |
Hi folks,
just been reading the march issue of todays pilot magazine.
There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through a
paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines. Previously
i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now whats the
truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with long term
experince on either fuels with the rotax engine?
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
Sport, because there is not much need for the Pro's gear warning on a
Tri-Gear.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of erichdtrombley(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on the
pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased only
the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on which
version.
Erich Trombley
A028
writes:
> Wow, what rapid responses!
>
> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> conundrum.
> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> airfoil
> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the
> easy
> switch.
> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> board with
> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
>
> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> product
> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> comments
> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> underdamped,
> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of
> the
> software.
>
> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> to
> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> incentive
> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> needs to
> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> during
> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> the
> glareshield.
>
> Continue!
>
> Shaun
> A207
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
>
>
> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> line
> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> to
> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> the
> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> lower port
> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> through
> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> cover
> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> out to
> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> wiring.
> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> include
> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> a/c.
> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> from gear
> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> I've
> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> keep
> > you up dated.
> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> Which I
> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> Europa
> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> chance to
> > see the many varietys we are doing.
> >
> >
> > Jim Nelson
> >
> > A058 N15JN
> >
> >
> writes:
> > > Shaun:
> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> don't
> > > think
> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> chat,
> > > the nub
> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> that's
> > > critical
> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> other.
> > > He said
> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> readings
> > > of each.
> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> XS
> > > models.
> > > Ferg
> > > A064
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
>
>
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization |
It's worth the bucks because it can save your bacon. Using some type of AOA
is the ONLY way you can be sure when the a/c is about to stall (has anyone
out there felt airframe buffet during a base to final turn and lived to tell
about it?), and the PSS "device" has no moving parts which made my decision
to buy it rather easy.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Richard Iddon
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
Being a relatively inexperienced pilot, I've never come across an AOA sensor
before, just a stall warner on the cherokees & cessna's I learned in. I've
looked at the web site but what are forum members experiences of this
equipment, is it worth the bucks and can I get one in the UK?
Richard Iddon ( nearly finished my wings) 533
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
PSS' website is http://www.angle-of-attack.com. The Sport costs $890, the
Professional $1500.
The major difference is in the display, and most purchasers ( according to
the company ) buy the
Sport, since it gives the same information, including synthesized voice
warnings, and it's a whole
lot smaller so it fits on the glareshield better. The Pro has a digital AOA
readout and a more
complicated display.
The last time I checked with PSS they would sell you the sensor alone for
$450. I'm not sure if
you pay a bit more in total to split your order this way.
Has anyone out there used larger I.D. pneumatic tubing for their
Pitot-Static runs than the standard
1/4" OD 1/8" ID supplied?
Shaun
A207
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Antieau" <lyle(at)antieau.org>
Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> I hadn't given the AoA much thought, but am working on my wings and should
> probably figure out what I'm doing before closing them out. Does PPS have
> a web site? How much was it for only the sensors? Does the sport version
> have a stall warning horn?
>
> Lyle Antieau
> A137
>
> > Just curious, of those that are using the PPS AoA, did you decide on
> > the pro or sport versions? Quite abit difference in cost. I purchased
> > only the sensors portion of the kit as I have yet to make up my mind on
> > which version.
> >
> > Erich Trombley
> > A028
> >
> > writes:
> >> Wow, what rapid responses!
> >>
> >> In my talks with the boss at PSS, I discussed the glider/short wings
> >> conundrum.
> >> One needs to add a second EPROM when the wings swap, since the
> >> airfoil
> >> is different. If we didn't have flaps, that could have been the easy
> >> switch.
> >> Nevertheless, it should be possible to piggyback a small circuit
> >> board with
> >> an electronic switch onto the original EPROM socket that would be
> >> microswitched to an appropriate tang on the wing root.
> >>
> >> PSS is also in the process of certificating the AOA sport, so the
> >> product
> >> development is officially "mature", i.e., finished. There were some
> >> comments
> >> from some of my RV friends about the display or warnings being
> >> underdamped,
> >> which PSS claims has been solved within the last year with V.7 of the
> >> software.
> >>
> >> Some of you have been irritated that PSS didn't partner with BlueMnt
> >> to
> >> put the AOA indicator on-screen. Aside from there being little
> >> incentive
> >> for them to do that, on-panel is the wrong place for an AOA. It
> >> needs to
> >> be in the pilot's field of view as s/he looks out of the window
> >> during
> >> landing, which is why you see so many AOA-sports sitting on top of
> >> the
> >> glareshield.
> >>
> >> Continue!
> >>
> >> Shaun
> >> A207
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "James H. Nelson" <europajim(at)juno.com>
> >> Subject: Re: PSS AOA sensor position standardization
> >>
> >>
> >> > If you check out the positioning by way of the manual, you do not
> >> line
> >> > the two ports up vertically. What you do is keep them in line tip
> >> to
> >> > trail but off set tip to root. Does that make sense. This puts
> >> the
> >> > ports at the same distance from the leading edge but not the same
> >> > distance from the wing tip. Mine is off set about 2" with the
> >> lower port
> >> > closer to the root. My wing is a foam wing and I cut a 6" hole
> >> through
> >> > the bottom skin and made a flange to put inside to reattach the
> >> cover
> >> > when I finished the installation. I then ran my urethane lines
> >> out to
> >> > the tip and ran them back through the conduit I used for the wing
> >> wiring.
> >> > BTW, proprietary Software has a disconnect for their tubes. I am
> >> > getting mine next week. I forgot to mention it to Jim at PS to
> >> include
> >> > it with the kit. I also sent Jim the way we "operate" our Europa
> >> a/c.
> >> > Since we mono wheel drivers have no control for separating flap
> >> from gear
> >> > extensions and the tri gear drivers only have flaps to operate,
> >> I've
> >> > asked Jim to help us on our setups to the CPU in the unit. I will
> >> keep
> >> > you up dated.
> >> > Well, I'm doing the final bits to proceed with painting.
> >> Which I
> >> > should have done for Sun-N-Fun. I'll be bringing my a/c to the
> >> Europa
> >> > dinner as one of at least four others. It will give us all a
> >> chance to
> >> > see the many varietys we are doing.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jim Nelson
> >> >
> >> > A058 N15JN
> >> >
> >> >
> >> writes:
> >> > > Shaun:
> >> > > I'm not going either.............:-(
> >> > > I have foam wings, and that seems to be old poo so
> >> don't
> >> > > think
> >> > > I'm topical. I phone the boss at Proprietary and we had a long
> >> chat,
> >> > > the nub
> >> > > of which was you can be inside his limits and the only thing
> >> that's
> >> > > critical
> >> > > is that the two orifices are directly vertical one under the
> >> other.
> >> > > He said
> >> > > the real comparison is between them rather than the proper
> >> readings
> >> > > of each.
> >> > > Hope this softens worries somewhat - sorry I can't speak for the
> >> XS
> >> > > models.
> >> > > Ferg
> >> > > A064
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >>
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas |
I have zero actual experience but I have seen the innards of a Rotax 912
(demonstrated by a Rotax rep) that showed the ill effects of avgas. Lead
poisons the modern Austrian engine as surely as it poisoned the ancient
Romans.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of KarkelB(at)aol.com
Subject: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas
Hi folks,
just been reading the march issue of todays pilot magazine.
There is an article about fuels that just confused me. Read through a
paragraph that says mogas is unsuitable for turbocharged engines. Previously
i had read that avgas damages the valve seats on rotax engines. Now whats
the
truth? I think i'll be calling austria tommorrow. Anyone with long term
experince on either fuels with the rotax engine?
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Dawson" <mtd(at)ilkley.fsbusiness.co.uk> |
Have we any avionics experts out there ? I have an intercom problem that nobody
seems to be able to solve. When receiving transmissions my intercom locks out
and I am unable to talk to my P2 - not a problem unless you operate in busy airspace
or from a large airport like I do. - the wiring has been checked and it
seems to be OK to manufactures spec also its not the side tones of the new King
radio as I can hear myself talk.It may be that the unit itself is faulty but
before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking - anyone with
similar experience or ideas please. ?
Michael Dawson. G-PEGY.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
.......as I can hear myself talk.It may be that the unit itself is faulty
but before I have the whole panel out again and send it for checking -
anyone with similar experience or ideas please. ?
Michael Dawson. G-PEGY.
Michael
I think what you describe is a feature that is meant to separate the Pilot
from the other passengers. I read something about an intercom mode that
lets you select this type of operation.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914-avgas or Mogas |
Hi Karim
I think that it will depend on the RON/MON value of the fuel. I
believe that the higher the number the more you can compress the fuel
without it detonating. I would guess that super unleaded which has a
value of 97 is a safer bet than cheap crappy unleaded with a value of
87. The 912 was designed to run with unleaded fuel, so I guess the
914 is too as it is essentially the same engine. But that is only my
opinion as I have got a Jabiru.
Another important factor in running with unleaded fuel is the ability
of the rest of the fuel related components to deal with the chemicals
February 22, 2002 - March 05, 2002
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-ch