Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cj
March 14, 2002 - March 26, 2002
| Subject: | and Flap bonded brackets. |
Hi! All.
I was on the point of this e-mail anyway but today received the latest
Europa News letter and there happens to be an article in it about corrosion
protection.
I have just been tidying up my wing "FURNITURE" because now having the wing
dolly I was able to get them into the workshop under a decent light.
I found, much to my disappointment, a small amount of corrosion on the flap
brackets under the paint, evident by the paint showing signs of blisters.
When preparing the brackets I etched them with phosphoric acid diluted 5:1
washed off well
dried and then coated with Etch Primer (D360-1 with Toluene and Xylene)
Mixed 1:1 with Etch catalyst (D360-1) Then two coats of Plasti-kote metal
primer grey undercoat and at least two coats of white Plasti-kote gloss.
The oxide blistering the paint was white but close to the good metal it was
black. Has anyone any suggestions as to a) What I did wrong? and b) What
action to take now? (as a temporary stop gap I have cleaned them back to
white metal recoated them with the etch primer and repainted them with the
plasti-kote .)
c)Bearing in mind the invasive surgery needed some time in the future at
what cost structurally and minimal weight would it have been to make these
"captive" parts in stainless?
Builders in the stage of needing to take corrosive protection action need to
be extremely careful what "tune they play"
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Europa Simulator |
A new bugfix version has been posted on the List Support website, see under
Graham Clarke's section at http://www.crix.org.uk
John Cliff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: mystery picture |
Sounds rather like a picture of my replacement fuel tank fittings (to permit me
to replumb the fuel system in aluminium).
Can't remember how/why it reached you !
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailplane anti-servo tab |
| From: | John Kilian <john.kilian(at)verizon.net> |
on 3/12/02 11:49 AM, John & Amy Eckel at eckel1(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am about ready to separate the antiservo tab from the tailplane.
> Does anyone have a slick method for doing the angled cut
> on the bottom?
>
> Thanks,
> John, A230
Hi John, I just completed that operation several months ago. I used a Dremel
with a thin cut off wheel and angled the wheel to the direction of the slot.
It worked well with only a few small dings to the tab leading edge. It does
take a steady hand and a well marked line to follow outlining the slot. Good
luck. John K. A046
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
Dear All,
I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't an option
due to work and family commitments.
I am therefore looking to become part of a syndicate locally if possible. I believe
I have found an exciting opportunity. A chap I have spoken too has pretty
much completed the whole kit, finished and signed off etc, except for engine
and instruments. I am trying to get an idea of how much it would now cost to get
this lovely machine in the air.
OK so I need to budget for engine and all ancillary parts that's around 12500 inc
vat, I believe, if I go for a standard prop. We would need some help fitting
the engine so could someone please suggest someone and any ideas of how much
that might cost and potential hours effort required, and who could assist. Then
instruments and trim, help needed again there, I understand that could vary
depending on individual preference. At that point can anyone advise the process
and again costs for getting it through the permit and test flying etc. Im just
trying to get a very broad view on what is involved here.
A lot of very open ended questions I know and any advice gratefully appreciated,
probably best off list I guess.
I hope I don't get shot down in flames here for asking too many leading questions.
Obviously I intend to join the builders club, PFA etc immediately as I know there
is a vast wealth of information already available.
Kind Regards
Kevin
kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | nics & panel depth |
While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not sufficient
depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm, GPS/comm,
or transponder. Each of these requires approximately inch (12 mm) more
than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville this
is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
stick motion.
Also, for the Rotax 914 installation the waste gate servo is to be mounted
on top of the wheel well, near the firewall, but the location specified in
the engine installation manual would make this device intrude into the space
to be occupied by the transponder (when the avionics stack is full and the
transponder, or just about anything else, is at the bottom). Nevilles
recommendation is to attach the servo to the panel molding itself, in the
space beneath the flat shelf on the starboard side, but I have found that
there is enough space (barely) to mount it in the same general area by
attaching it to the firewall with a specially fabricated aluminum bracket (I
made an AutoCAD drawing that I will send to anyone interested request the
file off list). This mount has the added advantage of using the nut
plates in their intended orientation rather than inverted (!) per the
manual rhetorical question: has anyone been able to put a bolt into one of
these nutserts from the wrong end? With the normal exit end pinched to
smaller than the bolt diameter, that is not possible with any of the
nutserts delivered with my kit.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Change this.. change that... do some more |
>Dear Graham,
>
>On what do you base your opinion that the seat belt anchor plates are too
>small? The plates in G-KWIP did not rip out of the composite during your
>accident.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Andy Draper
>Technical Director
Andy,
Maybe I am not clear enough in my opinion remarks. What did I say that
prompts your question? There would be more margin for error if they were a
bit bigger which might have helped with some of the earlier Classics.
Certainly I found it difficult to maintain edge clearance on G-KWIP.
Incidentally I do think the seat belts should include a distance piece to
allow the strap attach brackets to rotate freely as they do in most cars.
Seat belt angle is different for different people.
I can't remember exactly now whether the plate pulled out or not but
Isaac's lap strap attach did fail. I think the whole structure failed in
compression. I was lucky, lighter weight I guess. Isaac was not so lucky.
Point of interest to you. David has been doing some tests with boiling
coolant and radiator hose. He has found that the hose takes a permanent set
at around 150 deg C, this explains why our hose was a non standard
diameter. 150 C represents about 3 or 4 bar pressure. (memory failing
again) This was enough to burst the collector bottle which IMHO must have a
bigger breather hole. The hose at the same time started to expand and
eventually let go. Once boiling starts and the hose expands the sequence
becomes irreversible, the hose gets weaker, expands quicker and quicker and
explodes. This experiment is easily repeatable.
AAIB have accepted that their interpretation was not really accurate and
are going to write an addendum. We will let you have a copy of our notes as
soon as they are written. We think it is important for everyone.
Graham
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: slow blow fuse |
>Most contact breakers are effectively slow blow fuses due to the way that
>they work.
>
>Anything other than a contact breaker would be a liability as the main fuse
>in an aircraft electrical system (ie if there were a surge you would loose
>all your electrics and changing fuses in flight is not an option - asuming
>you have a spare !)
Bob Nuckolls recommends fusible links, so that is what I will use in
future. I've yet to read anything of his that I can't respect and he's
brighter than me anyway.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
>Dear All,
>
>I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
>
>I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't an
option due to work and family commitments.
>
>I am therefore looking to become part of a syndicate locally if possible. I
believe I have found an exciting opportunity. A chap I have spoken too has
pretty much completed the whole kit, finished and signed off etc, except for
engine and instruments. I am trying to get an idea of how much it would now
cost to get this lovely machine in the air.
>
>OK so I need to budget for engine and all ancillary parts that's around
12500 inc vat, I believe, if I go for a standard prop. We would need some
help fitting the engine so could someone please suggest someone and any
ideas of how much that might cost and potential hours effort required, and
who could assist. Then instruments and trim, help needed again there, I
understand that could vary depending on individual preference. At that point
can anyone advise the process and again costs for getting it through the
permit and test flying etc. Im just trying to get a very broad view on what
is involved here.
If it's only engine and instruments you need and you're happy to use second
hand stuff, you can get it all for less than 5K.
>A lot of very open ended questions I know and any advice gratefully
appreciated, probably best off list I guess.
>
>I hope I don't get shot down in flames here for asking too many leading
questions.
>
>Obviously I intend to join the builders club, PFA etc immediately as I know
there is a vast wealth of information already available.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
>While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not sufficient
>depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm,
GPS/comm,
>or transponder. Each of these requires approximately inch (12 mm) more
>than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
>unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
>spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville
this
>is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
>stick motion.
Another alternative might be to let the avionics stick out the front by 1/2
inch and make a nice wooden bevel to fit round them.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
I've gone to the rotax web site (www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com) and found
the pdf for the 914 installation manual. However, numerous tries at
downloading it all have resulted in pdf errors. I can't seem to find a way
to contact rotax of the errors. Anyone else had better luck?
Jim & Heather A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing and Flap bonded brackets. |
Bob Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi! All.
> ...
> I found, much to my disappointment, a small amount of corrosion on the flap
> brackets under the paint, evident by the paint showing signs of blisters.
> When preparing the brackets I etched them with phosphoric acid diluted 5:1
> washed off well
> dried and then coated with Etch Primer (D360-1 with Toluene and Xylene)
> Mixed 1:1 with Etch catalyst (D360-1) Then two coats of Plasti-kote metal
> primer grey undercoat and at least two coats of white Plasti-kote gloss.
> The oxide blistering the paint was white but close to the good metal it was
> black.
> ....
Maybe the black is something in the paint. But I've found that
nothing in a consumer spray adheres to anything but intended
surfaces. Even if the surface is abraded before etch, etc.
In 1985, I repainted my AA-5, using PolyFiber's EP-420 2-part Epoxy
primer. Mostly has been outside, and even in tough areas like
underneath A/C, or on brackets where you got corners that start the
peeling process, no problems to date.
I've used it on all the Europa parts. Horrid odor, measure/mix, wear
respirator, discard excess, thoroughly clean gun each time, for just a
few parts. Wouldn't have suffered all that if I wasn't sure. It
adheres tenaciously, if prepped right, and word is Boeing uses a
similar product in some places.
Conversely, when I removed a Loran antenna from underneath, and did
all you did and using consumer-type paints, the patched area failed in
two years.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slow blow fuse |
All I found on Aerolectric site were ref. to low-current apps for
fusible links, using #24-#22 wire. Did I miss something else?
Generically, I found elsewhere they're used lately in autos in the
feed from alternator to battery. They say a 60-amp alternator can
dump into a discharged/defective battery more and for longer than a
appropriately rated circuit breaker can handle, meaning a more $$
time-delay breaker is what is otherwise needed. So it's an apparent
cost issue to just size the feed wire to just melt. Rationale
otherwise not clear to me, but curious they must melt often enough so
that a fuse-like replacement is on display at auto stores. The Rotax
whirlygig would seem of insufficient output for this solution.
Littlefuse.com has a tech brief with further issues, but their link
product is similarly for high-current apps (80-250A), where breakers
are $$. Cited also is the nonuniformity of the melting point of link
wire (should be like zinc, not garden copper), but maybe Nuckolls
knows Mil-Spec wire is more predictable. One problem I see is having
a wire that can potentially heat up red hot to short of liquid,
destroying the insulation, cool down and still work. Not in my
airplane, thank you.
All I found in quickie look; just the messenger.
Best,
Fred F.
> >Most contact breakers are effectively slow blow fuses due to the way that
> >they work.
> >
> >Anything other than a contact breaker would be a liability as the main fuse
> >in an aircraft electrical system (ie if there were a surge you would loose
> >all your electrics and changing fuses in flight is not an option - asuming
> >you have a spare !)
>
> Bob Nuckolls recommends fusible links, so that is what I will use in
> future. I've yet to read anything of his that I can't respect and he's
> brighter than me anyway.
>
> Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
In a message dated 3/14/02 8:33:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com writes:
<< >While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not sufficient
>depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm,
GPS/comm,
>or transponder. Each of these requires approximately inch (12 mm) more
>than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
>unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
>spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville
this
>is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
>stick motion.
Another alternative might be to let the avionics stick out the front by 1/2
inch and make a nice wooden bevel to fit round them.
Cheers,
Mark.
>>
Hi All,
My panel ended up spaced aft about 1/2 " anyway when I put rubber shock
mounts between it and the firewall. It is the same as the Europa Club
Modification that was approved except the rubber cone washers were actually
the rubber parts of two pipe expansion plugs trimmed and put back to back.
Have to watch the clearance of the gear handle though if building a
monowheel. Another plus; I was thinking of using the gap at the bottom of the
lip of the panel to not only pass the wiring from the fuselage stations
through but to maybe layup a heat duct of a low profile, maybe going up to
the de-mist duct. Not settled on the route of all this yet.
Troy Maynor
N120EU
troymaynor(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
This mount has the added advantage of using the nut
> plates in their intended orientation rather than inverted (!) per the
> manual rhetorical question: has anyone been able to put a bolt into
> one of these nutserts from the wrong end? With the normal exit end pinched to
> smaller than the bolt diameter, that is not possible with any of the
> nutserts delivered with my kit.
I used the ones supplied with the kit. Before you rivet the nut plate in place
thread a bolt in from the proper side a couple of times. This will give just
enough slack to allow you to insert the bolt from the wrong side when you come
to mount the servo.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
"Bob Nuckolls recommends fusible links, so that is what I will use in
future. I've yet to read anything of his that I can't respect and he's
brighter than me anyway. Graham"
Can I join your group? I think it's pretty large and I know I
qualify.
There is another reason why I won't use switch-breakers or
whatever those "automatic" C/Bs are called - nor would i prefer to have
handy the pullout C/Bs so beloved of airline engineers.
I shared an article about C/Bs several years ago. It discussed
the propensity for danger in the wire used since the 80's - the tefzel
covered stuff. It has a habit after vibration, moisture and heat (admittedly
not so intense in most of our milieus) of cracking. Again this occurs
geberally after a number of years. What happens is the teeny cracks open to
moisture, the wire carries too much current and the C/B pops open. That's
good.
` What prompts the danger is pushing the offending button back in
to see what happens, time two. That's bad. What happens is the surge bak
into the circuit prompts a tiny but hot spark which overheats the tefzel
locally and "turns it into fuel". In some cases it explodes enough to blow
apart adjacent lines - not a good thing. Nor perhaps is it exactly
applicable to our operation.
Give me fusible links (a la Nuckolls) or give me fog. As Bob N
says, "make a case for getting along without it because you've got a
backup", then just get along without it till you're on the ground.
Don't turn it on again to see what happens. It might.
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
Jim, I just now grabbed the 912S manual just for curiosity. Errors
might be due to your Acrobat version; try D/L of latest ver.
Best,
Fred F.
PreDial(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I've gone to the rotax web site (www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com) and found
> the pdf for the 914 installation manual. However, numerous tries at
> downloading it all have resulted in pdf errors. I can't seem to find a way
> to contact rotax of the errors. Anyone else had better luck?
>
> Jim & Heather A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: slow blow fuse |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
Fusible wire links are OK on the lower rated stuff... protecting 20AWG wire
with 24AWG etc but I wouldn't use it on the main feed. The heat generated while
blowing a big fat wire would probably take out the insulation.
I tried blowing links made out of 24, 22 and 20AWG. The 24 and 22 AWG burnouts
were well contained by the fiberglass sleeve I am using while the 20AWG shows
signs of browning on the sleeve. Based on this I chose not to use fusible wire
links to protect any wire size larger than 18 AWG.
The other thing is not to expect these fusible links to go quickly, they are
very slow fuses so are really protecting against dead shorts.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
I have 2 SL40 comm radios in mine and they are close, but they fit. The
bottom of the panel will be about 3/4 inch forward of the firewall and the
top about 1/4 inch.
Dave
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slow blow fuse |
That's what seems implied on the aerolectric site, Tony. However, the
temp rating of Tefzel insulation is in the Mil-Spec, and it's _way_
short of cherry red, much less melting. Inside a fiberglass sleeve,
you could have a damaged wire and not know it. Not an airworthiness
concept I'm comfy with. Still, for what sort of low-current circuit
do we want this? Certainly not avionic$ or gyro$, or is this just to
save weight/cost on traditional devices?
Best,
Fred F.
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> Fusible wire links are OK on the lower rated stuff... protecting 20AWG wire
> with 24AWG etc but I wouldn't use it on the main feed. The heat generated while
> blowing a big fat wire would probably take out the insulation.
>
> I tried blowing links made out of 24, 22 and 20AWG. The 24 and 22 AWG burnouts
> were well contained by the fiberglass sleeve I am using while the 20AWG shows
> signs of browning on the sleeve. Based on this I chose not to use fusible wire
> links to protect any wire size larger than 18 AWG.
>
> The other thing is not to expect these fusible links to go quickly, they are
> very slow fuses so are really protecting against dead shorts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: C/Bs and resetting |
Ferg, that "arc-over" problem in airliners still has FAA stumped, and
the prime focus is Kapton insulation, much thinner to save weight. I
don't think many small airplane mech's could say they've ever seen the
phenom in Tefzel. The planes just don't see the cycles and don't have
H-V wires in the bundles - 14V won't arc unless the conductors contact
adjacent wire or ground metal (completely chaffed), which they will
encounter.
Also curious how breakers are better than fuses seems gospel only in
airplane building. Even the respective product literature for fuses &
breakers contain no such hint, but rather they each have proper
application. E.g., Makita cordless drills have a breaker, as stalling
on a tight screw can ruin a ni-cad battery. There's nothing like that
on the Europa (beyond maybe alternator). It's things like big motors
or heating elements that cause "nuisance trips," and the literature
says so.
Changing fuses in flight is not easy, but like the breaker, shouldn't
be, except is dire circumstances. It popped for a real reason. On an
avionics box, reapplying the juice can cause a $300 repair to go to
$600, the way they price 50-cent components.
Best,
Fred F.
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> ...
> There is another reason why I won't use switch-breakers or
> whatever those "automatic" C/Bs are called - nor would i prefer to have
> handy the pullout C/Bs so beloved of airline engineers.
> I shared an article about C/Bs several years ago. It discussed
> the propensity for danger in the wire used since the 80's - the tefzel
> covered stuff. It has a habit after vibration, moisture and heat (admittedly
> not so intense in most of our milieus) of cracking. Again this occurs
> geberally after a number of years. What happens is the teeny cracks open to
> moisture, the wire carries too much current and the C/B pops open. That's
> good.
> ` What prompts the danger is pushing the offending button back in
> to see what happens, time two. That's bad. What happens is the surge bak
> into the circuit prompts a tiny but hot spark which overheats the tefzel
> locally and "turns it into fuel". In some cases it explodes enough to blow
> apart adjacent lines - not a good thing. Nor perhaps is it exactly
> applicable to our operation.
> Give me fusible links (a la Nuckolls) or give me fog. As Bob N
> says, "make a case for getting along without it because you've got a
> backup", then just get along without it till you're on the ground.
> Don't turn it on again to see what happens. It might.
> Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: C/Bs and resetting |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>
> Changing fuses in flight is not easy, but like the breaker, shouldn't
> be, except is dire circumstances. It popped for a real reason. On an
> avionics box, reapplying the juice can cause a $300 repair to go to
> $600, the way they price 50-cent components.
Which is why in my aircraft I am using switching breakers for anything that is
switched on and off as part of normal flight operations and fuses for
everything else. Using a switching breaker removes two electrical joints
compared with using a switch and a seperate switch and fuse/breaker.
If a breaker trips then, unless it is life critical, the breaker stays tripped
until back on the ground and the cause of the fault is located.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MELVYNBS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: mystery picture |
It is either a canutin valve or a manderzonk.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MELVYNBS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
pdf is snarglei## of the rotax in the glrids@##%$.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
Hi! Kevin.
East Yorkshire is a big area, where are you really?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI Kit337/Jabiru 3300 (Wickenby Lincoln)
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Advice Request
Dear All,
I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't an
option due to work and family commitments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivorphillips" <ivor(at)ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailplane anti-servo tab |
hi john, I used a metal straight edge and stanley knife with new blade,
this is the type of knife with the retractable blade which I used half
extended,
The first cut is the most important, do it gently just to score the glass,
the subsequent cuts will follow the original line, keep the angle of the
blade to follow the tabs leading edge, It takes very little physical effort
to complete this job, just remember to keep the straight edge in place until
your score line is firmly established.
good building
Ivor,486 trike
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kilian" <john.kilian(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Tailplane anti-servo tab
> on 3/12/02 11:49 AM, John & Amy Eckel at eckel1(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > I am about ready to separate the antiservo tab from the tailplane.
> > Does anyone have a slick method for doing the angled cut
> > on the bottom?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John, A230
>
> Hi John, I just completed that operation several months ago. I used a
Dremel
> with a thin cut off wheel and angled the wheel to the direction of the
slot.
> It worked well with only a few small dings to the tab leading edge. It
does
> take a steady hand and a well marked line to follow outlining the slot.
Good
> luck. John K. A046
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: getting wings on |
Dear Ken,
If the bearing is kept from swivelling too much, you shold find that a quick rattle
of the flap would be enough to enable the pin to engage. Without the restriction
on rotation, usually the bearing swivels around to block the pin from
entering altogether. Perhaps there is another reason for your difficulty?
Kind regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
Bob,
I am Between Beverley and Driffield and fly (a Rallye 150hp and Blade 582
flexwing) from a private farm strip called Eddsfield which is 8 knt Miles
North of Driffield. The strip is 800m grass, and the kettles always on!
Usually quite through the week.
More info on my website at www.ukmicrolights.com
and click on the Eddsfield link.
Cheers
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Advice Request
> Hi! Kevin.
> East Yorkshire is a big area, where are you really?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI Kit337/Jabiru 3300 (Wickenby Lincoln)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Advice Request
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
>
> I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't
an
> option due to work and family commitments.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | lies at last!!!!! |
Gidday,
I am writing to tell those interested of the first flight of Mal and Kathy
Mc Lures a/c. This a/c is a work of art, taking 5 1/2 years and probably is
a 5000 hour aeroplane. It came in a little heavy, in fact a lot, but Mal
and Kath built it to suit themselves. The panel weighs a ton, and he
operates a 914 with a Warp drive, electric prop (sorry, forgotten the
type). It was operated on the fine pitch stop and indicated 120 knots with
5050 RPM, and if the pitot system is anything like the rest of the
aircraft, it will be accurate. Once the prop was taken out of the fine
pitch it indicated 130 knots without a problem, with bags of RPM and prop
to go. The prop would have been exercised more except the only floor for
the whole day was the prop indicating readout was see-sawing in numerical
display, a glitch Mal needs to sort out. Other than that it climbed at a
shade under 1000 FPM at gross with the increased gross weight mod.
Without doubt this aircraft is the most finely crafted homebuilt in
Australia and I am proud to say on Mals behalf that it is a Europa. I am
sure Europa are proud of every Europa that flies, but this is a very
special plane!
Well done Mal and Kath
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <john(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
After some fiddling, I think that digest delivery of forum messages is now
working. This is a batched daily delivery (sent at 05:00 UK time) instead of
each message being sent individually. (There are other modes available in
theory, but I haven't tried them.)
Anyone interested in swapping to this method can find the instructions in the
FAQ (see your welcome message or the Europa Club website or a link from
http://www.crix.org.uk )
If you decide to do this we would ask you to bear two rules of etiquette in
mind.
1) Please restict the lengths of quotations in postings to the minimum needed,
quoting the whole of a 30-message digest in a reply would not be helpful.
2) Please change the subject in the reply to the thread concerned, or a new
thread subject. A subject of Re: Digest 15 Mar .... is no help either
immediately or in the archives.
As always, anyne with queries or problems is welcome to get in touch with me
(using the address at the end of all forum messages).
John Clff
Europa Forum minder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: It flies at last!!!!! |
Congrats to Mal and Kathy.
Now you can begin to enjoy it all! I have some common ground with the
Aussies and my Engine!
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG MKI Kit 337/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: It flies at last!!!!!
Gidday,
I am writing to tell those interested of the first flight of Mal and Kathy
Mc Lures a/c. This a/c is a work of art, taking 5 1/2 years and probably is
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
| From: | "Cripps, David" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com> |
Kevin,
For assistance in your project I would strongly recommend you talk to Matthew Russell/Harry
Luck. They have lots of experience in the areas you describe, are
very near the Europa factory and know all the Europa folk well, and I have found
them incredibly helpful, professional and pleasant to work with.
Matthew's number is 01653 668169. You may need to leave a message as they are all
very 'hands-on', but they will get back to you. Matthew's e-mail is: m_russell_ltd(at)breathemail.net
If you want to give me a call for my experiences, I'd be happy to fill you in.
David Cripps
GBWJH
01983 828124 (day)
01983 756237 (eve)
david.cripps(at)spsystems.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: Advice Request
Dear All,
I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't an option
due to work and family commitments.
I am therefore looking to become part of a syndicate locally if possible. I believe
I have found an exciting opportunity. A chap I have spoken too has pretty
much completed the whole kit, finished and signed off etc, except for engine
and instruments. I am trying to get an idea of how much it would now cost to get
this lovely machine in the air.
OK so I need to budget for engine and all ancillary parts that's around 12500 inc
vat, I believe, if I go for a standard prop. We would need some help fitting
the engine so could someone please suggest someone and any ideas of how much
that might cost and potential hours effort required, and who could assist. Then
instruments and trim, help needed again there, I understand that could vary
depending on individual preference. At that point can anyone advise the process
and again costs for getting it through the permit and test flying etc. Im just
trying to get a very broad view on what is involved here.
A lot of very open ended questions I know and any advice gratefully appreciated,
probably best off list I guess.
I hope I don't get shot down in flames here for asking too many leading questions.
Obviously I intend to join the builders club, PFA etc immediately as I know there
is a vast wealth of information already available.
Kind Regards
Kevin
kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk
**********************************************************************************************
All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions)
of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with
reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions.
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
or retain this message or any part of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
David,
Thanks for the reply. At present I have an option to join a chap locally who
has a finished aircraft with no engine and instruments in it. He has run out
of cash and enthusiasm. The deal is for me to finish it and we would own
half each. Given that the stages were professionally done I think I have a
bargain in many respects.
The disappointing thing is the wait for the engine which is annoying (8
months) however I have found a source and should have it within 2 months,
for 300 more that Europa charge, if I go for it.
However I have also been offered a brand new 914 turbo boxed not used for
11k available today! Probably a bargain but more than I can afford
unfortunately given the other bits and pieces required.
I am aware of Harry Luck and have left a message for him to ring me back
thanks for that.
I see you are on the Island I love it there and came to the Microlight fly
in there last year. This year will be even bigger with so far 210 microlight
aircraft registered for the event! I have some pics I took on the Island on
my website www.ukmicrolights.com or www.wightparty.org for the event itself
Maybe you could pop down and say hello.
Thanks again
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cripps, David" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Advice Request
> Kevin,
>
> For assistance in your project I would strongly recommend you talk to
Matthew Russell/Harry Luck. They have lots of experience in the areas you
describe, are very near the Europa factory and know all the Europa folk
well, and I have found them incredibly helpful, professional and pleasant to
work with.
>
> Matthew's number is 01653 668169. You may need to leave a message as they
are all very 'hands-on', but they will get back to you. Matthew's e-mail is:
m_russell_ltd(at)breathemail.net
>
> If you want to give me a call for my experiences, I'd be happy to fill you
in.
>
> David Cripps
> GBWJH
> 01983 828124 (day)
> 01983 756237 (eve)
> david.cripps(at)spsystems.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Advice Request
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
>
> I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't
an option due to work and family commitments.
>
> I am therefore looking to become part of a syndicate locally if possible.
I believe I have found an exciting opportunity. A chap I have spoken too has
pretty much completed the whole kit, finished and signed off etc, except for
engine and instruments. I am trying to get an idea of how much it would now
cost to get this lovely machine in the air.
>
> OK so I need to budget for engine and all ancillary parts that's around
12500 inc vat, I believe, if I go for a standard prop. We would need some
help fitting the engine so could someone please suggest someone and any
ideas of how much that might cost and potential hours effort required, and
who could assist. Then instruments and trim, help needed again there, I
understand that could vary depending on individual preference. At that point
can anyone advise the process and again costs for getting it through the
permit and test flying etc. Im just trying to get a very broad view on what
is involved here.
>
> A lot of very open ended questions I know and any advice gratefully
appreciated, probably best off list I guess.
>
> I hope I don't get shot down in flames here for asking too many leading
questions.
>
> Obviously I intend to join the builders club, PFA etc immediately as I
know there is a vast wealth of information already available.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Kevin
>
> kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk
>
>
****************************************************************************
******************
> All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the
Conditions)
> of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the
Company
> or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
>
> Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is
given
> in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is
given with
> reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the
Conditions.
>
> The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
> are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
> Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
> legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
> person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
> or retain this message or any part of it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
Dear List,
Sorry that last email wasn't intended to be sent to the list please ignore
it. Which of course means your going to read it now!
Dam it!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Advice Request
> David,
>
> Thanks for the reply. At present I have an option to join a chap locally
who
> has a finished aircraft with no engine and instruments in it. He has run
out
> of cash and enthusiasm. The deal is for me to finish it and we would own
> half each. Given that the stages were professionally done I think I have a
> bargain in many respects.
>
> The disappointing thing is the wait for the engine which is annoying (8
> months) however I have found a source and should have it within 2 months,
> for 300 more that Europa charge, if I go for it.
> However I have also been offered a brand new 914 turbo boxed not used for
> 11k available today! Probably a bargain but more than I can afford
> unfortunately given the other bits and pieces required.
>
> I am aware of Harry Luck and have left a message for him to ring me back
> thanks for that.
>
> I see you are on the Island I love it there and came to the Microlight fly
> in there last year. This year will be even bigger with so far 210
microlight
> aircraft registered for the event! I have some pics I took on the Island
on
> my website www.ukmicrolights.com or www.wightparty.org for the event
itself
> Maybe you could pop down and say hello.
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Kevin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cripps, David" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com>
> Subject: Re: Advice Request
>
>
> > Kevin,
> >
> > For assistance in your project I would strongly recommend you talk to
> Matthew Russell/Harry Luck. They have lots of experience in the areas you
> describe, are very near the Europa factory and know all the Europa folk
> well, and I have found them incredibly helpful, professional and pleasant
to
> work with.
> >
> > Matthew's number is 01653 668169. You may need to leave a message as
they
> are all very 'hands-on', but they will get back to you. Matthew's e-mail
is:
> m_russell_ltd(at)breathemail.net
> >
> > If you want to give me a call for my experiences, I'd be happy to fill
you
> in.
> >
> > David Cripps
> > GBWJH
> > 01983 828124 (day)
> > 01983 756237 (eve)
> > david.cripps(at)spsystems.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: Advice Request
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
> >
> > I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't
> an option due to work and family commitments.
> >
> > I am therefore looking to become part of a syndicate locally if
possible.
> I believe I have found an exciting opportunity. A chap I have spoken too
has
> pretty much completed the whole kit, finished and signed off etc, except
for
> engine and instruments. I am trying to get an idea of how much it would
now
> cost to get this lovely machine in the air.
> >
> > OK so I need to budget for engine and all ancillary parts that's around
> 12500 inc vat, I believe, if I go for a standard prop. We would need some
> help fitting the engine so could someone please suggest someone and any
> ideas of how much that might cost and potential hours effort required, and
> who could assist. Then instruments and trim, help needed again there, I
> understand that could vary depending on individual preference. At that
point
> can anyone advise the process and again costs for getting it through the
> permit and test flying etc. Im just trying to get a very broad view on
what
> is involved here.
> >
> > A lot of very open ended questions I know and any advice gratefully
> appreciated, probably best off list I guess.
> >
> > I hope I don't get shot down in flames here for asking too many leading
> questions.
> >
> > Obviously I intend to join the builders club, PFA etc immediately as I
> know there is a vast wealth of information already available.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> ******************
> > All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the
> Conditions)
> > of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the
> Company
> > or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
> >
> > Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is
> given
> > in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is
> given with
> > reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the
> Conditions.
> >
> > The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
> > are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
> > Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
> > professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
> > legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
> > person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
> > intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
> > or retain this message or any part of it.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Fred:
"> Ferg, that "arc-over" problem in airliners still has FAA stumped, and>
the prime focus is Kapton insulation, much thinner to save weight. > Also
curious how breakers are better than fuses seems gospel only in> airplane
building. ."
>
Tony:
"Which is why in my aircraft I am using switching breakers for anything that
is switched on and off as part of normal flight operations and fuses for
everything else. "
Fred and Tony:
Thank you for correcting my twisted thoughts. I was of course
thinking of Kapton and erroneously mentally applying to Tefzel. The effects
of hot spark on Kapton had mesmerized me - when I think of the former advice
of engineers in the airline and the 'reset' procedure I wonder that so many
lived.....
Thanks again for sharing rich advice.
Ferg
A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
Hi! Kevin.
I passed your earlier enquiry re- syndicate/share membership to a friend who
may contact you if he ultimately decides.
I'll probably look you up sometime, or even you could reciprocate to
Wickenby? Do you have the co-ordinates and what is the air to ground
frequency in use and 'phone number?
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Advice Request
Bob,
I am Between Beverley and Driffield and fly (a Rallye 150hp and Blade 582
flexwing) from a private farm strip called Eddsfield which is 8 knt Miles
North of Driffield. The strip is 800m grass, and the kettles always on!
Usually quite through the week.
More info on my website at www.ukmicrolights.com
and click on the Eddsfield link.
Cheers
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Advice Request
> Hi! Kevin.
> East Yorkshire is a big area, where are you really?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI Kit337/Jabiru 3300 (Wickenby Lincoln)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Advice Request
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
>
> I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't
an
> option due to work and family commitments.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice Request |
Bob,
Have been to Wickenby last flying season and I have no doubt I will be there
again soon.
Eddsfield is 54.06.600N & 000.27.462W the frequency is 118.95
and the phone number for Ed is 07970 482539. No ppr is required, its very
laid back just turn up and call, if no one replies don't worry. Circuits are
27 RH or 09 LH at 1000ft aal. The field is about 550 ft above sea level.
All visitors welcome, landing fee 3.00 (optional)
Cheers
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Advice Request
> Hi! Kevin.
> I passed your earlier enquiry re- syndicate/share membership to a friend
who
> may contact you if he ultimately decides.
> I'll probably look you up sometime, or even you could reciprocate to
> Wickenby? Do you have the co-ordinates and what is the air to ground
> frequency in use and 'phone number?
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Advice Request
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I am Between Beverley and Driffield and fly (a Rallye 150hp and Blade 582
> flexwing) from a private farm strip called Eddsfield which is 8 knt Miles
> North of Driffield. The strip is 800m grass, and the kettles always on!
> Usually quite through the week.
>
> More info on my website at www.ukmicrolights.com
> and click on the Eddsfield link.
>
> Cheers
>
> Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Advice Request
>
>
> > Hi! Kevin.
> > East Yorkshire is a big area, where are you really?
> > Regards
> > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI Kit337/Jabiru 3300 (Wickenby Lincoln)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> > Subject: Advice Request
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am looking for some general advice please if I may.
> >
> > I am keen to become a Europa owner although unfortunately building isn't
> an
> > option due to work and family commitments.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: slow blow fuse |
>
> I have only used it for circuits that I never expect to blow... mainly
> indicator lights associated with other services. I won't be using it for
> anything normally associated with core services - for those I have a
> combination of fuses and breakers.
>
> Tony
Many of those lesser items include items which neither draw much nor
unimportant if fail, such as LCD clock, even intercom. Common in even
production A/C is lashing 2-3 devices on one circuit protection dev,
to save cost/wt/panel real estate.
I used 20 stackable, automotive blade fuse sockets to cobble a
complete fuse box that will go under the instrument panel. The front
door hinges down, and a mercury tilt switch energizes a mini LED above
each fuse to show any blown fuses. The back of the ass'y is a printed
circuit board etched for the busses and a strip of stud terminals for
each circuit. Having an aux alternator, the thing has a toggle switch
to flip the essential items to aux, a flashing LED to say you're on
aux, storage for spare fuses, and a compartment for a little blade
fuse puller. It's 11" x 1-3/4" x 1-3/4". Even at 16 oz, it has to be
less than discrete items mounted on the panel and weightier busses.
It was an ambitious project, but the savings in panel space/visual
clutter, plus the other features, was the motivator.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
Another method would be to mount the nut plate on the top surface of the tunnel.
Basically drill a hole equal to the outside diameter of the nut plate to allow
it fit flush to the top skin. Next removed a little bit of the foam between
the skins in the area where the rivets will go. I then mixed up some flox
and filled the area void of foam and inserted the nut plate. When the flox is
cured simply drill the rivet mounting holes and install the rivets. It is a
very clean installation and you don't have to worry about installing the nut plates
from under the tunnel which has limited access.
Erich Trombley
A028
This mount has the added advantage of using the nut
> plates in their intended orientation rather than inverted (!) per the
> manual rhetorical question: has anyone been able to put a bolt into
> one of these nutserts from the wrong end? With the normal exit end pinched
to
> smaller than the bolt diameter, that is not possible with any of the
> nutserts delivered with my kit.
I used the ones supplied with the kit. Before you rivet the nut plate in place
thread a bolt in from the proper side a couple of times. This will give just
enough slack to allow you to insert the bolt from the wrong side when you come
to mount the servo.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
To all UK resident readers of this forum
I don't normally get too worked up about the threat to General Aviation. I
pay a donation each year to the GAAC and am a member of AOPA. However I
have just read in the latest GAAC Newsletter that Central Government is
considering changing or even cancelling the "28 Day Rule". For those of you
not familiar with this, many farm strips and small airfields can only exist
because of this rule which allows 28 days of activity per year. It doesn't
just apply to aviation but also markets, motor racing and clay pigeon
shooting. The Europa is a grass strip capable aircraft and even if your
Europa is not planned to be based on one of these strips it will affect you
for at least two very good reasons. Firstly it will severely limit your
choice of destination airfields and secondly, if those of us who intend
using these strips are denied use, there will be an even greater shortage
of hangar space on airfields not affected.
Six options are set out in the Government's recent consultation paper on
the subject:
1. retain the current situation
2.Remove the temporary use of rights to all users
3. Remove the 28 day "permitted development" rights for temporary markets,
all all motor sports and clay pigeon shooting
4. Reduce the number of days on which temporary markets, all motor sports
and clay pigeon shooting can operate without planning permission, to seven
days in any one year
5. Introduce a size threshold above which "permitted development" rights
would beremoved from temporary markets, all motor sports and clay pigeon
shooting. This appears to be primarily aimed at markets
6. Introduce a notification procedure for events - again aimed at markets,
fetes and similar events.
Although flying activities are not mentioned specifically, in many cases,
GA can fall under the "motor sports " category
In the paper
Question 17 asks "Which option for temporary use provision do you most
favour. Would you prefer an alternative option not set out in the paper"
Question 18 asks " Why do you prefer your chosen option
The GAAC says "Readers are therefore urged to respond to this consultation
paper and request that option 1 - for no change - be chosen. There are no
forms to complete. You simply need to answer Questions 17 & 18 and send the
letter to:
Development Control Policy Division
Department of Transport
Local Government and the Regions
Zone 4/J3, Eland House
Bressenden Place
London SW1E 5DU
For the attention of Mr Iain Clark"
To help fight any change to this rule please can you help by sending a
simple letter. This is a very important issue to the future of GA in the
UK.
Thank you.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | nics & panel depth |
Message text written by INTERNET:RobH@hyperion-ef.com
>While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not sufficient
depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm,
GPS/comm,
or transponder. Each of these requires approximately inch (12 mm) more
than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville
this
is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
stick motion.<
I have the UPS Apollo SL40 and was able to fit it to the centre part of the
panel. The small extra distance from the firewall you need is acheived if
you install the panel using the Europa Club mod. This way of mounting the
panel makes removal and refitting much easier, hides the screws and makes
the panel stronger without significant weight penalty. The clearance from
the stick is ample. I haven't checked to see if the face of the instrument
panel is parallel to the firewall. If it isn't the close tolerances may
mean the vertical position may vary the clearance from the firewall. My
radio is fairly low on the stack below the Skyforce Colourmap and the
uMonitor. Although the SL40 uses a lot of depth it is only 1.125" high and
only uses half the width of the box for the radio so the same case can also
house a VOR as well without using more panel space. The performance of the
radio even with the standard Europa tape aerial is fine and the integral
vox intercom is as good as any external intercoms I have come across. I
also find the monitor function (listening on the standby frequency) very
useful as well.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> To all UK resident readers of this forum
>
> I don't normally get too worked up about the threat to General Aviation. I
> pay a donation each year to the GAAC and am a member of AOPA. However I
> have just read in the latest GAAC Newsletter that Central Government is
> considering changing or even cancelling the "28 Day Rule". For those of
you
> not familiar with this, many farm strips and small airfields can only
exist
> because of this rule which allows 28 days of activity per year. It doesn't
> just apply to aviation but also markets, motor racing and clay pigeon
> shooting. The Europa is a grass strip capable aircraft and even if your
> Europa is not planned to be based on one of these strips it will affect
you
> for at least two very good reasons. Firstly it will severely limit your
> choice of destination airfields and secondly, if those of us who intend
> using these strips are denied use, there will be an even greater shortage
> of hangar space on airfields not affected.
>
> Six options are set out in the Government's recent consultation paper on
> the subject:
> 1. retain the current situation
> 2.Remove the temporary use of rights to all users
> 3. Remove the 28 day "permitted development" rights for temporary markets,
> all all motor sports and clay pigeon shooting
> 4. Reduce the number of days on which temporary markets, all motor sports
> and clay pigeon shooting can operate without planning permission, to seven
> days in any one year
> 5. Introduce a size threshold above which "permitted development" rights
> would beremoved from temporary markets, all motor sports and clay pigeon
> shooting. This appears to be primarily aimed at markets
> 6. Introduce a notification procedure for events - again aimed at markets,
> fetes and similar events.
>
> Although flying activities are not mentioned specifically, in many cases,
> GA can fall under the "motor sports " category
>
> In the paper
>
> Question 17 asks "Which option for temporary use provision do you most
> favour. Would you prefer an alternative option not set out in the paper"
>
> Question 18 asks " Why do you prefer your chosen option
>
> The GAAC says "Readers are therefore urged to respond to this consultation
> paper and request that option 1 - for no change - be chosen. There are no
> forms to complete. You simply need to answer Questions 17 & 18 and send
the
> letter to:
>
> Development Control Policy Division
> Department of Transport
> Local Government and the Regions
> Zone 4/J3, Eland House
> Bressenden Place
> London SW1E 5DU
>
> For the attention of Mr Iain Clark"
>
>
> To help fight any change to this rule please can you help by sending a
> simple letter. This is a very important issue to the future of GA in the
> UK.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Nigel Charles
Maybe in the letter we should point out that the 28 day rule is already too
harsh and we should be fighting for something more like 2 days a week. Why
should a small aircraft fitted with an exhaust silencer be more restricted
than a private car.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
Dear All,
Please may I have some suggestions as to whom I could approach for dynamic prop
balancing? I have fitted six anchor nuts and screws to the backplate, so all
I need is someone with the necessary kit to do the business. I have balanced
the carbs on my 912 with a pair of vacuum gauges and I have made an attempt to
balance by trial and error, but I believe there is still room for improvement.
I can fly to where ever the equipment is located.
Regards,
William Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Lockhart" <elockhart(at)pfanet.co.uk> |
http://www.planning.dtlr.gov.uk/consult/ucotup/index.htm
Part 8 Temporary Uses.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: 28 Day Rule
> To all UK resident readers of this forum
>
> I don't normally get too worked up about the threat to General Aviation. I
> pay a donation each year to the GAAC and am a member of AOPA. However I
> have just read in the latest GAAC Newsletter that Central Government is
> considering changing or even cancelling the "28 Day Rule". For those of
you
> not familiar with this, many farm strips and small airfields can only
exist
> because of this rule which allows 28 days of activity per year. It doesn't
> just apply to aviation but also markets, motor racing and clay pigeon
> shooting. The Europa is a grass strip capable aircraft and even if your
> Europa is not planned to be based on one of these strips it will affect
you
> for at least two very good reasons. Firstly it will severely limit your
> choice of destination airfields and secondly, if those of us who intend
> using these strips are denied use, there will be an even greater shortage
> of hangar space on airfields not affected.
>
> Six options are set out in the Government's recent consultation paper on
> the subject:
> 1. retain the current situation
> 2.Remove the temporary use of rights to all users
> 3. Remove the 28 day "permitted development" rights for temporary markets,
> all all motor sports and clay pigeon shooting
> 4. Reduce the number of days on which temporary markets, all motor sports
> and clay pigeon shooting can operate without planning permission, to seven
> days in any one year
> 5. Introduce a size threshold above which "permitted development" rights
> would beremoved from temporary markets, all motor sports and clay pigeon
> shooting. This appears to be primarily aimed at markets
> 6. Introduce a notification procedure for events - again aimed at markets,
> fetes and similar events.
>
> Although flying activities are not mentioned specifically, in many cases,
> GA can fall under the "motor sports " category
>
> In the paper
>
> Question 17 asks "Which option for temporary use provision do you most
> favour. Would you prefer an alternative option not set out in the paper"
>
> Question 18 asks " Why do you prefer your chosen option
>
> The GAAC says "Readers are therefore urged to respond to this consultation
> paper and request that option 1 - for no change - be chosen. There are no
> forms to complete. You simply need to answer Questions 17 & 18 and send
the
> letter to:
>
> Development Control Policy Division
> Department of Transport
> Local Government and the Regions
> Zone 4/J3, Eland House
> Bressenden Place
> London SW1E 5DU
>
> For the attention of Mr Iain Clark"
>
>
> To help fight any change to this rule please can you help by sending a
> simple letter. This is a very important issue to the future of GA in the
> UK.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Nigel Charles
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Pitt" <david(at)pitt27.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props---REPLY |
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
Subject: Balancing Props
Dear All,
Please may I have some suggestions as to whom I could approach for dynamic
prop balancing? I have fitted six anchor nuts and screws to the backplate,
so all I need is someone with the necessary kit to do the business. I have
balanced the carbs on my 912 with a pair of vacuum gauges and I have made an
attempt to balance by trial and error, but I believe there is still room for
improvement. I can fly to where ever the equipment is located.
Regards,
William Mills
Dear William,
Try Dynamic Prop Balancing Services Tel 01455 272284
He will travel to you, or conversely, you to him!
Dave Pitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! Nigel.
Presumably PFA and Peter Kember are aware of this?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: 28 Day Rule
To all UK resident readers of this forum
I don't normally get too worked up about the threat to General Aviation. I
pay a donation each year to the GAAC and am a member of AOPA. However I
have just read in the latest GAAC Newsletter that Central Government is
considering changing or even cancelling the "28 Day Rule". For those of you
not familiar with this, many farm strips and small airfields can only exist
because of this rule which allows 28 days of activity per year. It doesn't
just apply to aviation but also markets, motor racing and clay pigeon
shooting. The Europa is a grass strip capable aircraft and even if your
Europa is not planned to be based on one of these strips it will affect you
for at least two very good reasons. Firstly it will severely limit your
choice of destination airfields and secondly, if those of us who intend
using these strips are denied use, there will be an even greater shortage
of hangar space on airfields not affected.
Six options are set out in the Government's recent consultation paper on
the subject:
1. retain the current situation
2.Remove the temporary use of rights to all users
3. Remove the 28 day "permitted development" rights for temporary markets,
all all motor sports and clay pigeon shooting
4. Reduce the number of days on which temporary markets, all motor sports
and clay pigeon shooting can operate without planning permission, to seven
days in any one year
5. Introduce a size threshold above which "permitted development" rights
would beremoved from temporary markets, all motor sports and clay pigeon
shooting. This appears to be primarily aimed at markets
6. Introduce a notification procedure for events - again aimed at markets,
fetes and similar events.
Although flying activities are not mentioned specifically, in many cases,
GA can fall under the "motor sports " category
In the paper
Question 17 asks "Which option for temporary use provision do you most
favour. Would you prefer an alternative option not set out in the paper"
Question 18 asks " Why do you prefer your chosen option
The GAAC says "Readers are therefore urged to respond to this consultation
paper and request that option 1 - for no change - be chosen. There are no
forms to complete. You simply need to answer Questions 17 & 18 and send the
letter to:
Development Control Policy Division
Department of Transport
Local Government and the Regions
Zone 4/J3, Eland House
Bressenden Place
London SW1E 5DU
For the attention of Mr Iain Clark"
To help fight any change to this rule please can you help by sending a
simple letter. This is a very important issue to the future of GA in the
UK.
Thank you.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
| From: | Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net> |
On 03/14/2002 18:02, "PreDial(at)aol.com" wrote:
> I've gone to the rotax web site (www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com) and found
> the pdf for the 914 installation manual. However, numerous tries at
> downloading it all have resulted in pdf errors. I can't seem to find a way
> to contact rotax of the errors. Anyone else had better luck?
>
> Jim & Heather A185
>
Try rotax-owner.com
You will need to enter your engine SN to enter the site and get updates. It
is an official Rotax site for owners and professional mechanics, meets FAA
requirements for latest information regarding tech bulletins, directives,
etc.
Hope this helps!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
You must have had a different batch - I ran the bolts through so many times
that all the Cd plating is gone and the dumb hole still looks square and is
visibly smaller than the bolt!
Best regards,
Rob
PS, you answered a rhetorical question :-)
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tony Krzyzewski
Subject: Re: Avionics & panel depth
This mount has the added advantage of using the nut
> plates in their intended orientation rather than inverted (!) per the
> manual - rhetorical question: has anyone been able to put a bolt into
> one of these nutserts from the wrong end? With the normal exit end
pinched to
> smaller than the bolt diameter, that is not possible with any of the
> nutserts delivered with my kit.
I used the ones supplied with the kit. Before you rivet the nut plate in
place
thread a bolt in from the proper side a couple of times. This will give just
enough slack to allow you to insert the bolt from the wrong side when you
come
to mount the servo.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
You and Mark made the same point, and I did consider that solution but then
rejected it for aesthetic reasons. De gustibus, and all that.
Best regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Avionics & panel depth
In a message dated 3/14/02 8:33:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com writes:
<< >While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not
sufficient
>depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm,
GPS/comm,
>or transponder. Each of these requires approximately 1/2 inch (12 mm)
more
>than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
>unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
>spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville
this
>is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
>stick motion.
Another alternative might be to let the avionics stick out the front by 1/2
inch and make a nice wooden bevel to fit round them.
Cheers,
Mark.
>>
Hi All,
My panel ended up spaced aft about 1/2 " anyway when I put rubber shock
mounts between it and the firewall. It is the same as the Europa Club
Modification that was approved except the rubber cone washers were actually
the rubber parts of two pipe expansion plugs trimmed and put back to back.
Have to watch the clearance of the gear handle though if building a
monowheel. Another plus; I was thinking of using the gap at the bottom of
the
lip of the panel to not only pass the wiring from the fuselage stations
through but to maybe layup a heat duct of a low profile, maybe going up to
the de-mist duct. Not settled on the route of all this yet.
Troy Maynor
N120EU
troymaynor(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ng: Intercom noise |
Hi Guys,
After four years of satisfactory service in my Europa, the Flightcom 403
intercom installation has begun to
exhibit a highly irritating background hum with headsets attached and
engine running.
The hum frequency follows the engine RPM closely. Pulling every circuit
breaker in the panel, bar the intercom
itself does not alleviate the problem.
Turning down the individual headset earpiece volume controls helps, but
does not cure the problem.
Both headsets suffer equally, irrespective of which whether pilot or
passenger circuit is connected. Disconnecting
either has no effect. In all other respects the installation behaves as
it should. (transceiver etc)
Having pulled the panel several times and checked for obviously loose
wiring, I'm becoming a tad frustrated.
This is clearly leakage and is related to engine turn rate.
Any panel wizards out there got it figured ? Please help. I'm getting
p...ed off !!
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: Intercom noise |
Hi Allen,
Have you checked the 22,000uF filter cap and connections?
Or perhaps its a filter cap in the Flightcom itself.
regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
Alan D Stewart wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> After four years of satisfactory service in my Europa, the Flightcom 403
> intercom installation has begun to
> exhibit a highly irritating background hum with headsets attached and
> engine running.
>
> The hum frequency follows the engine RPM closely. Pulling every circuit
> breaker in the panel, bar the intercom
> itself does not alleviate the problem.
>
> Turning down the individual headset earpiece volume controls helps, but
> does not cure the problem.
>
> Both headsets suffer equally, irrespective of which whether pilot or
> passenger circuit is connected. Disconnecting
> either has no effect. In all other respects the installation behaves as
> it should. (transceiver etc)
>
> Having pulled the panel several times and checked for obviously loose
> wiring, I'm becoming a tad frustrated.
>
> This is clearly leakage and is related to engine turn rate.
>
> Any panel wizards out there got it figured ? Please help. I'm getting
> p...ed off !!
>
> Alan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
Rob Housman wrote:
>
> You must have had a different batch - I ran the bolts through so many times
> that all the Cd plating is gone and the dumb hole still looks square and is
> visibly smaller than the bolt!
>
> Best regards,
> Rob
One option is squeeze out the elliptical shape of the anchor nut's
threaded part in a vise, or vice-grip pliers. To regain self-locking,
mash the attach bolt's threads in the vise a bit. Or semi-perm
Loctite, or combination thereof. Also there's AN-type anchor nuts
with fiber/nylon lock. Only need enlarge the fiber, and then use
Loctite....
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics & panel depth |
Rob,
I have an SL30 Nav/Comm and SL70 transponder and found there was just enough
room for it to fit.
regards,
Mike.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: Avionics & panel depth
While planning my avionics stack I discovered that there is not sufficient
depth behind the panel for any UPS Aviation Technologies nav/comm, GPS/comm,
or transponder. Each of these requires approximately inch (12 mm) more
than is available behind the panel to the firewall. Not wanting to make
unnecessary cuts into the firewall for clearance my remedy is to add a
spacer between the panel flange and the firewall. According to Neville this
is OK as long as the relocated panel does not interfere with full forward
stick motion.
Also, for the Rotax 914 installation the waste gate servo is to be mounted
on top of the wheel well, near the firewall, but the location specified in
the engine installation manual would make this device intrude into the space
to be occupied by the transponder (when the avionics stack is "full" and the
transponder, or just about anything else, is at the bottom). Neville's
recommendation is to attach the servo to the panel molding itself, in the
space beneath the flat shelf on the starboard side, but I have found that
there is enough space (barely) to mount it in the same general area by
attaching it to the firewall with a specially fabricated aluminum bracket (I
made an AutoCAD drawing that I will send to anyone interested - request the
file "off list"). This mount has the added advantage of using the nut
plates in their intended orientation rather than inverted (!) per the
manual - rhetorical question: has anyone been able to put a bolt into one of
these nutserts from the wrong end? With the normal exit end pinched to
smaller than the bolt diameter, that is not possible with any of the
nutserts delivered with my kit.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: Intercom noise |
> Hi Guys,
>
> After four years of satisfactory service in my Europa, the Flightcom 403
> intercom installation has begun to
> exhibit a highly irritating background hum with headsets attached and
> engine running.
>
> The hum frequency follows the engine RPM closely. Pulling every circuit
> breaker in the panel, bar the intercom
> itself does not alleviate the problem.
>
> Turning down the individual headset earpiece volume controls helps, but
> does not cure the problem.
>
> Both headsets suffer equally, irrespective of which whether pilot or
> passenger circuit is connected. Disconnecting
> either has no effect. In all other respects the installation behaves as
> it should. (transceiver etc)
>
> Having pulled the panel several times and checked for obviously loose
> wiring, I'm becoming a tad frustrated.
>
> This is clearly leakage and is related to engine turn rate.
>
> Any panel wizards out there got it figured ? Please help. I'm getting
> p...ed off !!
>
> Alan
Have you got an electrolytic capacitor on the output of your alternator? If
so, it might need replacing. They can dry out, especially when used in
somewhere hot.
If not, try adding one. Europa sell a 22000uF one which is probably a bit
overkill, anything over about 4700uF will probably be enough. Use one of at
least 25V. If you have several, you can put them in parallel to add their
values and make a larger combined capacitance. It might also be worth
adding a 0.1uF polyester capacitor at the same point (in parallel with the
electrolytic) and at the point where the supply goes into any box of
avionics.
Maybe worth checking for bad earths and earth loops, which were mentioned a
few weeks back.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch(at)hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing and Flap bonded brackets. |
Hi Bob,
You don't seem to be having much luck at the moment... Just one thought on
your suggestion, in my expereince epoxy doesn't adhere to stainless steel,
so relying on a mechanical bond might be unsatisfactory. Maybe Andy Draper
could offer his comments...
Brian Huchinson
hutch(at)hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Wing and Flap bonded brackets.
> Hi! All.
> I was on the point of this e-mail anyway but today received the latest
> Europa News letter and there happens to be an article in it about
corrosion
> protection.
> I have just been tidying up my wing "FURNITURE" because now having the
wing
> dolly I was able to get them into the workshop under a decent light.
> I found, much to my disappointment, a small amount of corrosion on the
flap
> brackets under the paint, evident by the paint showing signs of blisters.
> When preparing the brackets I etched them with phosphoric acid diluted 5:1
> washed off well
> dried and then coated with Etch Primer (D360-1 with Toluene and Xylene)
> Mixed 1:1 with Etch catalyst (D360-1) Then two coats of Plasti-kote metal
> primer grey undercoat and at least two coats of white Plasti-kote gloss.
> The oxide blistering the paint was white but close to the good metal it
was
> black. Has anyone any suggestions as to a) What I did wrong? and b) What
> action to take now? (as a temporary stop gap I have cleaned them back to
> white metal recoated them with the etch primer and repainted them with
the
> plasti-kote .)
> c)Bearing in mind the invasive surgery needed some time in the future at
> what cost structurally and minimal weight would it have been to make these
> "captive" parts in stainless?
> Builders in the stage of needing to take corrosive protection action need
to
> be extremely careful what "tune they play"
>
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: It flies at last!!!!! |
>Gidday,
>I am writing to tell those interested of the first flight of Mal and Kathy
>Mc Lures a/c. This a/c is a work of art, taking 5 1/2 years and probably is
>a 5000 hour aeroplane.
>Tony Renshaw
Tony,
That's great news, tell Mal I'm delighted to hear it. Who did the first
flight, you? No doubt you will get to tride in it anyway so that should
spur you on to get your bird flying. Or do I have to come over and give
you a geriatrics push ?}:->
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Naylor" <jnaylor(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: It flies at last!!!!! |
Gidday Tony!
Great news, please convey my congratulations to Mal and Kathy. Having seen
the a/c during the build I can go along with all you say about the quality.
I hope they enjoy flying it as much as they did the build!?
How is yours coming on by the way?
Best regards
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: It flies at last!!!!!
> Gidday,
> I am writing to tell those interested of the first flight of Mal and Kathy
> Mc Lures a/c.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
>You will need to enter your engine SN to enter the site and get updates. It
>is an official Rotax site for owners and professional mechanics, meets FAA
>requirements for latest information regarding tech bulletins, directives,
>etc.
>Hope this helps!
>kp
Kim,
good to see you here, is your new XS flying yet and when can I see picture
of your new cowling. Very curious, would it fit the diesel?
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing and Flap bonded brackets. |
>Hi Bob,
>You don't seem to be having much luck at the moment... Just one thought on
>your suggestion, in my expereince epoxy doesn't adhere to stainless steel,
>so relying on a mechanical bond might be unsatisfactory.
>Brian Huchinson
Hi Brian & Bob,
Epoxy doesn't reliably adhere to aluminium either, especially when
corrosion starts to creep along the interface. IMHO the best answer is the
correct anodizing process and the correct alloy. Next best would be
Alodine. A bit of redesign might be good here, (not me, not qualified
enough but Andy is) Choice of alloy and size to allow for the loss of
strength from chromic anodizing without the hot water finish treatment
would be my first approach. I think the existing parts are probably strong
enough.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
A friend of mine who lives in Udall (south of Wichita) electronically
balances engine/prop combinations.
Trouble is he doesn't think it would work on a Rotax as the gearing ratio
means that prop/engine component positions are almost always out of sync.
Anyone had this done and how did it fair? For me the easiest was to position
small washers under the bolts securing the spinner by trail and error until
it seemed smooth.
If I start getting a hint of vibration (usually the indicator is the compass
on the roof panel) I know its time to clean the bugs off the prop!
Regards,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
| From: | Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net> |
On 03/15/2002 13:08, "Graham Singleton" wrote:
>> You will need to enter your engine SN to enter the site and get updates. It
>> is an official Rotax site for owners and professional mechanics, meets FAA
>> requirements for latest information regarding tech bulletins, directives,
>> etc.
>> Hope this helps!
>> kp
>
> Kim,
> good to see you here, is your new XS flying yet and when can I see picture
> of your new cowling. Very curious, would it fit the diesel?
> Graham
>
>
Hi Graham!
Well, things are really slow in progress here so not much new on the "new"
XS. Dad does have some good preliminary ideas and design for the cowling
system, but we will turn over the fine details and manufacture to a friend
at Gillespie field in San Diego....
Hope you are doing well!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>
> Anyone had this done and how did it fair?
Very well thank you. I think the prop on the front of ZK-UDB has been
dynamically balance checked about 20 times. Each time we took the blades off
the hub we checked the balance again... to the extent that the balancer ended
up living in the hangar. We also have a vibration analyser which gets stuck on
the aircraft every so often and this has confirmed that dynamic balancing makes
a dramatic difference to the vibration patterns. We ended up balancing the prop
so well that we actually suspected the pickup sensor had failed and replaced
the sensor!
To balance the prop we ended up using washers behind the bolts.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Fairall" <bob.fairall(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
Hi Martin,
I've had my prop balanced by an outfit here in the U.K. called Noel Trigg
Associates ( test2(at)compaqnet.co.uk or www.nta.co.uk) and I've been highly
impressed with the results on my kit 71 G-BXLK, now flying since '98. And I
will without doubt call on their services on completion of my kit 494 under
construction at this time.
I know Trigg Associates 'travel', but I guess to travel to your side of the
pond for one Europa would be impractical ........ but if they were there
already on some future occasion???????
The main point though, is that it is my understanding these helpful people
are essentially using equipment intended for helicopter rotor blade
balancing ..... and compared to the gearing set-up on the Rotax, naturally
that on a helicopter is something else! The rear of spinner washer retention
arrangement they use is also something maybe a little different to that you
describe.
Hope this may be of some help to you and regards
Bob Fairall
----- Original Message -----
From: <MJKTuck(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Balancing Props
> A friend of mine who lives in Udall (south of Wichita) electronically
> balances engine/prop combinations.
>
> Trouble is he doesn't think it would work on a Rotax as the gearing ratio
> means that prop/engine component positions are almost always out of sync.
>
> Anyone had this done and how did it fair? For me the easiest was to
position
> small washers under the bolts securing the spinner by trail and error
until
> it seemed smooth.
>
> If I start getting a hint of vibration (usually the indicator is the
compass
> on the roof panel) I know its time to clean the bugs off the prop!
>
> Regards,
> Martin Tuck
> N152MT
> Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | ls of checking static RPM |
In response to the PFA's insistence on knowing Max static rpm for my new Kremen
CS prop at fine pitch and max power I yesterday wound up the engine facing a
12 knot wind with brake on and max up elevator. At about 80% power the plane nosed
over. Fortunately I had only one eye on the rev counter and the other on
the plane and was able to cut power quickly enough to avoid totally spoiling my
day. With the wisdom of hindsight it was naive of me to expect to be able to
do this without the plane tied firmly down, but several seasoned aviators and
one PFA inspector knew the plan and didn't warn me off. I mention it because
Sod's law says there will be at least one more person out there equally naive
who is shaping up to doing a similar thing, and whose reflexes may have been dulled
by a good night out. David Joyce 402
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Perils of checking static RPM |
| From: | Mark Burton <markb(at)ordern.com> |
From: "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Perils of checking static RPM
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:13:55 -0000
> I mention it because Sod's law says there will be at least one more
> person out there equally naive who is shaping up to doing a similar
> thing ...
That's me. The day before yesterday, I was ground testing a Constant
Speed Controller that I have developed for my PV-50 and guess what
happened when I gave it the gun in fine pitch? Even with two people on
board the tail lifted. Fortunately, I was quick enough to shut the
throttle before I remodelled the prop. At the time, I assumed it was
the 20 kt gusty wind that was to blame but it seems not, just
stupidity.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying: Intercom noise |
Avionicswest.com, under "Articles," has a couple on noise problems,
plus other cool stuff.
Where they talk about a capacitor on the alternator, that's a
relatively small-value one to suppresses RFI that bugs ADF as they
imply, and it may do no more than make the hum more musically
pleasing.
They do talk about ground looping and such, but they can't mention
chokes (FAA-illegal here w/o mfr imprimatur). Places like Radio Shack
sell a big one for automobile use (plus a mysterious Ground Loop
Isolator). But I bet there's a choke inside the Rotax alt reg, and
hence the big 25,000uf filter cap (could be bad). Else it wouldn't do
much, as a storage battery is the world's largest, readily available
zillion-farad electrolytic capacitor!
But rather than brute force method at that end, one can try a little
one in series on the 14V line that feeds the intercom. For an audio
panel problem, I used one of unknown value, a 1" O.D. toroid core with
about 30 turns of wire on it, but had to try an assortment from the
electronic surplus place. It looked too few turns to work than one
that did look like enough, but took most of it out. Guess it was the
right mH's at offending freq to allow it's filter cap, at its value,
to earn its keep.
This presumes the actual source isn't the comm radio. A good design
will have a choke, which won't fail should it have one, but its filter
cap can. Or try an external choke there.
Best,
Fred F.
Alan D Stewart wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> After four years of satisfactory service in my Europa, the Flightcom 403
> intercom installation has begun to
> exhibit a highly irritating background hum with headsets attached and
> engine running.
>
> The hum frequency follows the engine RPM closely. Pulling every circuit
> breaker in the panel, bar the intercom
> itself does not alleviate the problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mcdia(at)lineone.net |
Dear Martin,
When I was out in the US of A 2 years ago I had my PV-50/912 balanced dynamically
by Flight Fixins of Frankfort Kentucky.
It took 30 minutes and cost $80. Dynamic prop balancing is possible with
the 912 and made a huge difference to G-BWRO - no compass wobble and CDs
stopped jumping.
Problem with the UK is that it costs a ridiculous amount.
You could almost ship a europa over to the USA to have it done and still
come back with change (I exaggerate slightly).
Best wishes
James McDiarmid
-- Original Message --
>A friend of mine who lives in Udall (south of Wichita) electronically
>balances engine/prop combinations.
>
>Trouble is he doesn't think it would work on a Rotax as the gearing ratio
>
>means that prop/engine component positions are almost always out of sync.
>
>Anyone had this done and how did it fair? For me the easiest was to position
>
>small washers under the bolts securing the spinner by trail and error until
>
>it seemed smooth.
>
>If I start getting a hint of vibration (usually the indicator is the compass
>
>on the roof panel) I know its time to clean the bugs off the prop!
>
>Regards,
>Martin Tuck
>N152MT
>Wichita, Kansas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve & Eileen Genotte" <gopackgo(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Site Address Change |
All,
Even though the site's quite static as far as content, it's address is
changing. Please set your bookmarks to
http://home.attbi.com/~gopackgo/Mainpage.htm
Maybe someday I'll have a neat URL like El Roto.com, but for now this is all
you're gonna get. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Europa Club Membership Secretary <europa-club(at)rowil.clara.net> |
I must apologise to all for publishing incorrect information in the
sorry for any delay or frustration this has caused anyone, and I have
now fixed it. Other areas of the FAQ have also received minor
attention, and there is also now an explicit entry on changing the
"reply-to" setting.
The offending text was proof-read any number of times before but
somehow managed to get through anyway. Once again, my sincere
apologies for misleading anyone.
You can get the latest version of the FAQ via e-mail by sending the command:
faq forum
to the list server at , or you can
view it at the Europa Club website <http://www.europaclub.org.uk>.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
>Dear Martin,
>When I was out in the US of A 2 years ago I had my PV-50/912 balanced
>dynamically
>by Flight Fixins of Frankfort Kentucky.
>It took 30 minutes and cost $80. Dynamic prop balancing is possible with
>the 912 and made a huge difference to G-BWRO - no compass wobble and CDs
>stopped jumping.
>
>Problem with the UK is that it costs a ridiculous amount.
>You could almost ship a europa over to the USA to have it done and still
>come back with change (I exaggerate slightly).
>
>Best wishes
>
>James McDiarmid
I Agree James, I have had a go using a fancy oscilloscope but it was not
quite so easy with that. The necessary kit should not cost a lot, a very
basic laptop and some simple software. Why can't I buy the kit and offer
the service? The stuff I've seen advertised is just too expensive. I'm
probably too old to get the money back before I get tired of doing it in
the UK. Old old story, everything costs twice as much here, I wish we were
in $ and not under the thumb of monopolistic banks.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave DeFord" <davedeford(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Perils of checking static RPM |
----- Original Message -----
From: "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net>
Subject: Perils of checking static RPM
>In response to the PFA's insistence on knowing Max static rpm for my new
Kremen CS >prop at fine pitch and max power I yesterday wound up the engine
facing a 12 knot wind >with brake on and max up elevator. At about 80% power
the plane nosed over.
We avoid this problem by tying a rope to the axle extensions on the
tailwheel, and then driving a car onto the rope just behind the wheel, so
the car tire holds the rope. Quick, simple, and effective.
In fact, we generally use the rope that we keep as a "towbar," which has
loops permanently tied in both ends for hooking onto the tailwheel axle
extensions. One person can easily pull the airplane back into the hangar
(or elsewhere) this way, and the rope is easy to take along on trips.
Dave DeFord
N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: balancing tools |
Hi folks,
any one had a look at those balancing tools from
www.ulflight.com ?
karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi all, I just posted the photo's of my project. No text, I just dropped my
photo's into iphoto and "Export web site." I'm a very visual person and most
times one photo will clear up what hundreds of lines of text can't. I hope
this helps someone, or someone will write me and point out a mistake I missed.
Thanks,
SteveD
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 0 Controller Web Page |
| From: | Mark Burton <markb(at)ordern.com> |
A few people have expressed an interest in the PV-50 constant speed
controller project. I have therefore put together a simple web page
that describes what I have done so far:
http://www.ordern.demon.co.uk/markb/pv50controller/index.html
At this time I am building this only for myself. In the future, if it
proves itself to be useful and trustworthy, I may make it available to
others if there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photo Web site |
In a message dated 03/17/2002 7:27:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
Hi all,
For a break from all the technical questions, I have made a small home page
showing the project started in October - just a few pictures. Not a single
question!!
Back to work - WIRING.
http://members.aol.com/dja727/DAVEHOMEPAGE.html
Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim and Val <piaffe(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | ket CS14 adding glassfibre brackets |
In regards to Factory Newsletter 17, it is suggested that before
installing the cockpit module to bottom fuselage, it would be a good
idea to make the CS14 brackets more rigid by adding glass fibre
brackets. Has anyone out there done this and can provide mw with more
comprehensive details and /or photos?
Thanks,
Jim Gunnlaugson
Builder A192
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Earth Connection |
My ground cable (emerging thru tunnel from aft-mounted battery) is
attached to one of the lower bolts that secure supplied engine mount
to the Rotax ring mount.
Then...I caught Mr. Nuckolls article on grounding, and how to measure
milliohms - "When is Good Ground Not?" His method is cool, per check
on a 1%, 60-milliohm power resistor. Although each bolt securing the
mount presents a resistance, there are a number of them in parallel.
Curiously, then it looks like the lowest resistance to the starter is
from that mount. There's additional resistance of a longer #4 cable
to reach the top of the engine. And as big as the engine is, but
whatever metal it is, there's a measurable resistance. At what the
starter draws, the effect on starter current is small either way, but
2-3 more oz. here, couple there, we know how that goes!
Best,
Fred F.
>
> Michael, I am not sure about a recommended place as the installation
> manual does not give any direction on this matter. I just ran my ground
> wire tonight and the location I chose was the magneto mounting bracket to
> engine block bolt. This is a rather large bolt at least 8mm in dia and
> is rather convenient spot for easy access and didn't require any
> additional hardware.
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
>
>
> > My apologies for any irritation to the flying fraternity, but is
> > there a recommended place to bolt the battery earth to the 914
> > engine?
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > MP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
If its that easy then perhaps the Europa Club would consider acquiring the kit
for the benefit of all.
Duncan McFadyean
On Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:45 AM, Graham Singleton [SMTP:grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk]
wrote:
> >Dear Martin,
> >When I was out in the US of A 2 years ago I had my PV-50/912 balanced
> >dynamically
> >by Flight Fixins of Frankfort Kentucky.
> >It took 30 minutes and cost $80. Dynamic prop balancing is possible with
> >the 912 and made a huge difference to G-BWRO - no compass wobble and CDs
> >stopped jumping.
> >
> >Problem with the UK is that it costs a ridiculous amount.
> >You could almost ship a europa over to the USA to have it done and still
> >come back with change (I exaggerate slightly).
> >
> >Best wishes
> >
> >James McDiarmid
>
> I Agree James, I have had a go using a fancy oscilloscope but it was not
> quite so easy with that. The necessary kit should not cost a lot, a very
> basic laptop and some simple software. Why can't I buy the kit and offer
> the service? The stuff I've seen advertised is just too expensive. I'm
> probably too old to get the money back before I get tired of doing it in
> the UK. Old old story, everything costs twice as much here, I wish we were
> in $ and not under the thumb of monopolistic banks.
>
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber(at)terra.com.br> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
I wonder if anybody has tried to apply the poor man's dynamic balancer
used on turbofans, when the all-singing all dancing equipment is not at
hand-
Using the vibration indication from the cockpit, one run is done and
with all vibration rich rpm settings duly noted one places a
washer/bolt/weight at 12 o'clock on the spinner.
Another run is done and noted, the weight is moved 120 degrees, run and
noted, this repeated again once more.
Now one can plot the values on a piece of paper and figure out the
weight and location needed.
This works better sometimes than others and one time only I could stop
after the first placement of the weight.
Some people always have to try all the keys in the bundle, before
opening the lock.....
What I am thinking is that it should be possible to do the same here,
providing one can rustle up a little accelerometer of sorts to give the
reading......
Regards,
Alex
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Berube" <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Hello all,
For everyone building or interested in building Europas who are attending Sun n
Fun, Flight Crafters will be hosting an open house on Sunday April 7th from 4
to 8pm. Snacks and refreshments included.
Several aircraft in various stages of construction will be available for viewing.
If your just starting your project or are interested in building one, now
is your chance to see building in progress. Meet your fellow builders and talk
Europa all you want!
Directions: From the Sun n Fun Main Entrance, go West on Medulla Rd. to County
Line Rd. Turn Right and go North to I-4. Proceed West on I-4 to Exit 8 which
is Hwy 579. Go South on 579 one block to Hwy 92 and turn left. Go East on
Hwy 92 1 mile to Parsons Rd. and turn right. Go South 1/4 mile to large metal
tan colored building on your left.
If you are unable to attend on Sunday, please feel free to give use a call at 813
655-6411 and make arrangements for another day. Generally we are there during
daytime hours but due to Sun n Fun we may be at the show as well.
Regards to everyone,
Russell Lepre & Bob Berube
Flight Crafters
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph K. Hallett III" <rhallett(at)gbis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photo Web site |
Dave,
Plane is really looking great!
Ralph
DJA727(at)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 03/17/2002 7:27:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For a break from all the technical questions, I have made a small home page
> showing the project started in October - just a few pictures. Not a single
> question!!
>
> Back to work - WIRING.
>
> http://members.aol.com/dja727/DAVEHOMEPAGE.html
>
> Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ilja fiers" <iljafiers(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | tions from a wannabee.. |
Dear group,
Please let me introduce myself: my name is Ilja Fiers, and i am one of the
many 'wannabees' out there, looking for a project to start someday, when
time, funds and spouse ;-) would allow it. Since neither of these hurdles
have been overcome yet, i keep reading this excellent group, and for what it
is worth have not seen any 'drivel' just yet.
i've had my eye on several types of kitplanes, but find myself coming back
to the Europa every time, although it is out of reach financially for now.
In my opinion, the Europa can be built to 'real aircraft' standards, as
opposed to other kits out there that will always look 'bolted together' no
matter how much building goes into it.
My question is regarding the detachable wings. I consider this to be the key
advantage for the Europa, since i assume that renting hangarage at an
airport is both very expensive and hard to arrange. Being able to store the
aircraft somewhere else and driving it to the airport sounds a lot more
attractive to me than paying hangarage fees for long wintermonths without
flying. I live in the Netherlands, and to much of that British rain makes it
to over here...
If the detachable wings will never be used, there are other projects out
there that are less expensive to build, and would fit my 'mission' just as
well. The GBP is expensive for us over here in europe, and this is reflected
in the price of the kit i guess. I would even consider going the advanced
ultralight route, with the likes of Murphy, or Dallach.
So i am particularly interested in any comments from the field. Do you
people actually use this feature for what it is, or are most Europas
hangaraged after all? And if any of you do not use this, why is that? The
hassle of rigging/derigging the plane? BTW would it be a good idea to keep a
Europa tied down outside? I hope any of you can shed some light, and would
be very gratefull for any comments.
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Pilcher" <kpeng(at)waverider.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
Hi William,
I recommend Noel Trigg Associates Ltd at hanger 5 Coventry
airport, phone no 02476 639315, fax 02476 302088 email
Noel_Trigg(at)ntal.freeserve.co.uk
Regards
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
Subject: Balancing Props
Dear All,
Please may I have some suggestions as to whom I could approach for dynamic
prop balancing? I have fitted six anchor nuts and screws to the backplate,
so all I need is someone with the necessary kit to do the business. I have
balanced the carbs on my 912 with a pair of vacuum gauges and I have made an
attempt to balance by trial and error, but I believe there is still room for
improvement. I can fly to where ever the equipment is located.
Regards,
William Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a wannabee.. |
Hi! Ilja.
There is no doubt that the Europa and its derigging is a very operationally
cost saving facility. Although I have also built a covered trailer for
outside storage. I currently have mine at home and have rigged it every time
I need to fly, although I have only just developed a dolly to enable me to
rig it on my own. With two people trying quickly I can rig in about 10
minutes, so it isn't much hassle. I belong to a local flying club which
costs 85 per year including all departures and arrivals. It also costs
1,500 to insure and 150 per annum to revalidate the Permit to Fly in the
UK. plus the official PFA Inspectors charge for his inspection contribution
to the inspection. The project cost me considerably more than I had
originally intended though since instrumentation, painting and the trailer
need adding to the "bottom line" of the costs. In my case I caught a whole
lot more expense with the Jabiru 3300 engine and the MT Constant Speed
Prop.(In the region of 50,000 including the trailer!) There is no doubt in
my mind that you could fly cheaper and earlier but with that statement
comes the down sides, slower,less convenient, more expensive maintenance and
complicated share rules in a syndicate part share.
However by buying the stages of the kit one at a time at least gets you
started and you can add to that as finances /spouse permit !!! Also it is
very easy to become disenchanted during the build, the time factor is
frustrating, mine took about 4 1/2 years and about 2,500 hours although
again mine was somewhat different being the first 3300 Jabiru powered and
with the MT Propeller, I'm given to understand that the construction of the
wings in the present day XS version is by far less time consuming than the
MKI. However in my case I bought all three construction stages together and
only went to learn to fly about half way through the build! That way you
need to be very determined and committed! The final stages ,engine and
avionics come as quite a shock financially, you must do the budget study and
I would suggest putting cash to one side
towards the later more expensive stages and engine purchases. Have you
visited my pictures on the Europa Support pages http://www.crix.org.uk
also you could approach Jonathon and Carla Moyle in your country kit No. 330
(jmoyle(at)epo.org) who I met during my flight experience trip to the Europa
Factory. By the way the weather you experience in the Netherlands has
nothing to do with us here in the UK!!! We have more than enough of our
own!!!
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa Trike MKI /Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Questions from a wannabee..
Dear group,
Please let me introduce myself: my name is Ilja Fiers, and i am one of the
many 'wannabees' out there, looking for a project to start someday, when
time, funds and spouse ;-) would allow it. Since neither of these hurdles
have been overcome yet, i keep reading this excellent group, and for what it
is worth have not seen any 'drivel' just yet.
i've had my eye on several types of kitplanes, but find myself coming back
to the Europa every time, although it is out of reach financially for now.
In my opinion, the Europa can be built to 'real aircraft' standards, as
opposed to other kits out there that will always look 'bolted together' no
matter how much building goes into it.
My question is regarding the detachable wings. I consider this to be the key
advantage for the Europa, since i assume that renting hangarage at an
airport is both very expensive and hard to arrange. Being able to store the
aircraft somewhere else and driving it to the airport sounds a lot more
attractive to me than paying hangarage fees for long wintermonths without
flying. I live in the Netherlands, and to much of that British rain makes it
to over here...
If the detachable wings will never be used, there are other projects out
there that are less expensive to build, and would fit my 'mission' just as
well. The GBP is expensive for us over here in europe, and this is reflected
in the price of the kit i guess. I would even consider going the advanced
ultralight route, with the likes of Murphy, or Dallach.
So i am particularly interested in any comments from the field. Do you
people actually use this feature for what it is, or are most Europas
hangaraged after all? And if any of you do not use this, why is that? The
hassle of rigging/derigging the plane? BTW would it be a good idea to keep a
Europa tied down outside? I hope any of you can shed some light, and would
be very gratefull for any comments.
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PV-50 Controller Web Page |
Dear Mark
I would certainly be interested in your CSP device for my PV50
Regards William Mills
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com>
Subject: PV-50 Controller Web Page
>
> A few people have expressed an interest in the PV-50 constant speed
> controller project. I have therefore put together a simple web page
> that describes what I have done so far:
>
> http://www.ordern.demon.co.uk/markb/pv50controller/index.html
>
> At this time I am building this only for myself. In the future, if it
> proves itself to be useful and trustworthy, I may make it available to
> others if there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props---REPLY |
Many thanks for the info. However, they tell me the service is no longer
available.
Regards,
William Mills
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pitt" <david(at)pitt27.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Balancing Props---REPLY
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
> Subject: Balancing Props
>
>
> Dear All,
> Please may I have some suggestions as to whom I could approach for dynamic
> prop balancing? I have fitted six anchor nuts and screws to the
backplate,
> so all I need is someone with the necessary kit to do the business. I
have
> balanced the carbs on my 912 with a pair of vacuum gauges and I have made
an
> attempt to balance by trial and error, but I believe there is still room
for
> improvement. I can fly to where ever the equipment is located.
> Regards,
> William Mills
>
>
> Dear William,
>
> Try Dynamic Prop Balancing Services Tel 01455 272284
> He will travel to you, or conversely, you to him!
>
> Dave Pitt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
Many thanks Kevin. See you soon.
Regards William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Pilcher" <kpeng(at)waverider.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Balancing Props
> Hi William,
> I recommend Noel Trigg Associates Ltd at hanger 5
Coventry
> airport, phone no 02476 639315, fax 02476 302088 email
> Noel_Trigg(at)ntal.freeserve.co.uk
>
> Regards
> Kevin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
> Subject: Balancing Props
>
>
> Dear All,
> Please may I have some suggestions as to whom I could approach for dynamic
> prop balancing? I have fitted six anchor nuts and screws to the
backplate,
> so all I need is someone with the necessary kit to do the business. I
have
> balanced the carbs on my 912 with a pair of vacuum gauges and I have made
an
> attempt to balance by trial and error, but I believe there is still room
for
> improvement. I can fly to where ever the equipment is located.
> Regards,
> William Mills
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Balancing Props |
A very good suggestion if we can afford it. Perhaps the Committee can
consider.
Regards William
----- Original Message -----
From: "McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Balancing Props
> If its that easy then perhaps the Europa Club would consider acquiring the
kit for the benefit of all.
>
> Duncan McFadyean
>
> On Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:45 AM, Graham Singleton
[SMTP:grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk] wrote:
> > >Dear Martin,
> > >When I was out in the US of A 2 years ago I had my PV-50/912 balanced
> > >dynamically
> > >by Flight Fixins of Frankfort Kentucky.
> > >It took 30 minutes and cost $80. Dynamic prop balancing is possible
with
> > >the 912 and made a huge difference to G-BWRO - no compass wobble and
CDs
> > >stopped jumping.
> > >
> > >Problem with the UK is that it costs a ridiculous amount.
> > >You could almost ship a europa over to the USA to have it done and
still
> > >come back with change (I exaggerate slightly).
> > >
> > >Best wishes
> > >
> > >James McDiarmid
> >
> > I Agree James, I have had a go using a fancy oscilloscope but it was not
> > quite so easy with that. The necessary kit should not cost a lot, a very
> > basic laptop and some simple software. Why can't I buy the kit and offer
> > the service? The stuff I've seen advertised is just too expensive. I'm
> > probably too old to get the money back before I get tired of doing it in
> > the UK. Old old story, everything costs twice as much here, I wish we
were
> > in $ and not under the thumb of monopolistic banks.
> >
> > Graham
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a wannabee.. |
ilja fiers wrote:
>
> Dear group,
> ...
> In my opinion, the Europa can be built to 'real aircraft' standards, as
> opposed to other kits out there that will always look 'bolted together' no
> matter how much building goes into it.
Hi, Ilja!
Actually based on accident data in US, none of the popular kitplanes
have any problem at all in that regard. The significant variances in
kits are flying qualities, ease of construction, and factory support.
What you may perceive is more cosmetic (and aerodynamic), and the
Europa especially has design details that facilitate a
production-aircraft look to the interior.
> If the detachable wings will never be used, there are other projects out
> there that are less expensive to build, and would fit my 'mission' just as
> well.
I doubt the easy wing-rig option has much impact on retail price.
Whether used or not can be moot due to a big advantage in construction
ease (maneuvering around wings in final stages gets old), and then
how/where it will painted. Some designs have convenient parting lines
for painting disassembled, by self or auto body shop; some are
impractical. Consider how post-paint, final assembly stages will be
done. In US, there's airports where you won't be able to do that even
on the tie-down ramp, often not in a community hangar, even
no-painting in a T-hangar. Or it's a long commute to a field where
you can do all this, but with a runway inappropriate for first
flights.
> BTW would it be a good idea to keep a
> Europa tied down outside? I hope any of you can shed some light, and would
> be very gratefull for any comments.
> ....
The monowheel like any taildragger - but sits lower than many, if tied
down on turf, will have eventual maintenance issues due to corrosion.
But it can be minimized in construction, as you've likely have read
here. Some argue fiberglass should not be stored outside, but due at
least to fact that a well maintained alum structure can last virtually
forever. Tube/fabric is perceived as in same boat as FG as to
longevity of paint and skins, depending on climate. It's not so much
actual airworthiness after X years (isn't), as it is buyer perceptions
for later sale if never hangared. One does have the option of covers
for top-pointing surfaces. On a low-wing, much easier to cover the
wings.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Europa Aircraft" <europa(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | der web page links wanted |
Hi All,
We are updating our web site & would like to include links to all the
builder web pages out there. If you have one, or know of a good one to
suggest for the Europa site, please send it to me.
Please respond off the newsgroup to the following address:
europa(at)gate.net
Thanks!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Hi folks,
can anyone recommend a place in the uk that do powder coating.
regards .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | erichdtrombley(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: PV-50 Controller Web Page |
Mark,
A very ambitious project indeed. I thought the metal work looked great. It never
ceases to amaze me at the depth of the talent we have in this forum. Keep
us posted on the results. I am definitely interested in the progress of this
project.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Corbett" <David.Corbett(at)farmline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
Hi, Kim,
How nice to see you on the forum - albeit some time ago. I have been abroad,
and am daily wading through the list of forum e-mails, a few days at a time.
I can vouch for the heat in the San Diego area, particularly on the day you
so kindly took me for a flight in N111EU in July 2000. What fun that was!
No doubt you noticed the photo that I took of you that day when it was
published in Europa Flyer recently?
My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
annual Permit renewal.
Best wishes,
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Hi!
Try Yellow Pages for your area.
CJ Powder Coatings did mine. Tel. 01472 211222 Fax- 01472211333 Unit 8
Humberston Business Centre Jackson Place Wilton Road Industrial Estate
Grimsby DN36 4AS
Were the outfit that did mine.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAg
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi folks,
can anyone recommend a place in the uk that do powder coating.
regards .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" <garrys(at)att.com> |
David Corbett wrote.......
"My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
annual Permit renewal."
I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm always worried
that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has anyone
put together a check list of things that should be inspected? Based on the experience
of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any things you'd
like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during your maintenance
inspections? Are there any really critical things I should look for? Any advise
would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do you want one???? |
Hi folks,
spoke to Dennis Vories today, he is ready to avail his proven
version of the intercooler for the 914 turbo engine if we can get together
a minimum of ten people.The price for the kit will be $600 each if we are a
minimum of ten but would reduce considerably if we get more than ten
interested parties. I'm compiling a list of those interested to pass on to
dennis,so let me know if you want one.
regards Karim.
# 420
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do you want one???? |
Karium,
Yes we want one. I've talked to Dennis in the past. Glad he's ready to help
out.
Jim & Heather Butcher A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> David Corbett wrote.......
> "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal."
>
> I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm
always worried that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection.
Has anyone put together a check list of things that should be inspected?
Based on the experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there
any things you'd like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered
during your maintenance inspections? Are there any really critical things I
should look for? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
This would make a very useful web page...
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Permit checks was Insulating fuel lines |
Hi! Garry.
Hey I don't consider myself an 'ole timer!' However the big thing that is
prevalent in my mind is the differential movement between the tailplanes.
I've twice had to oversize the drive pins, resulting in my mod. of clamps on
the drive torque tube. Also corrosion on the flap bracket furniture.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
David Corbett wrote.......
"My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
annual Permit renewal."
I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm always
worried that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has
anyone put together a check list of things that should be inspected? Based
on the experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any
things you'd like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during
your maintenance inspections? Are there any really critical things I should
look for? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
District Manager, AT&T Business Services
Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter van Schoonhoven <pvans(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Do you want one???? |
Well, this is just my opinion, but I would rather invent my own than pay
another builder $600 for his design and some hardware. This is just not in
the spirit of homebuilding to charge for information. I doubt that Mr.
Dennis Vories has the engineering and liability support of say a Textron
(Cessna) or Bombardier (Rotax) and it just goes against my nature to pay an
individual for this type of thing. I understand that it his a wonderful
design, all debugged and all that, but that still does not do it for me. If
it were my design, I would give it away just for the knowledge that others
benefit from my talent, kind of a "imitation is the finest form of
flattery" situation.
I would hope that the homebuilding community does not devolve into this
type of thing.
My preliminary research shows you can get a heat exchanger for under $100
and some ducting can't be too much more.
That's my opinion anyway.
Peter van Schoonhoven
Battle Ground, WA
Building a Monowheel with 914 Rotax
>Hi folks,
> spoke to Dennis Vories today, he is ready to avail his proven
>version of the intercooler for the 914 turbo engine if we can get together
>a minimum of ten people.The price for the kit will be $600 each if we are a
>minimum of ten but would reduce considerably if we get more than ten
>interested parties. I'm compiling a list of those interested to pass on to
>dennis,so let me know if you want one.
>
> regards Karim.
># 420
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder web page links wanted |
My Europa Website is:
http://ourworld.cs.com/MJKTuck
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net> |
Hi all,
I normally do not post to this listing as I have very little to add to
all the other builders but I have been building my mono XS with Russel
and Bob's assistance at Flight Crafters. And I can say it sure speeds
the build time.
I do not think I could have installed the cockpit module without their
capable assistance. It really makes the whole process much more
enjoyable having all the support intra structure that Flight Crafters
provide.
I do recommend stopping by.
Joseph J. Like.
A086
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobNeils(at)aimcomm.com (Rob Neils) |
US builders:
Russ Lepre and Bob Berube at FlightCraters are a tremendous asset to US
Europa builders. I highly recommend visiting them if you are in the Tampa
area, e.g, going to Sun and Fun. There aren't two more knowledgable,
hard-working, honest and friendly guys than they.
They helped me with my glider wings, the first to begin assembly in the
US. We had problems which are to be expected when building the first off
but, with the good help of John Hurst at nearby Europa Lakeland, we
overcame all the difficulties.
Thank you guys for your good help.
Rob Neils
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns(at)hevanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Do you want one???? |
All true, Peter.
I'd wager that if you called up any of the companies supplying the RV-n
aftermarket, and asked
for their engineering diagrams, they'd cheerfully NOT send you them. Of
course, they're
actually in business to sell aftermarket widgets.
Denis isn't. He's stated repeatedly that he's a professional engineer who
gets paid
for his DESIGN work. Supporting a product is an unprofitable hassle.
If you're saying that Denis should NOT charge for an undocumented and
unsupported
design, I'd agree with you. If on the other hand he's providing a
documented,
supported, complete product including a fair estimate of the time he'll
spend answering questions
and the lost opportunity for other (more lucrative) work by doing so, his
price may be fair.
It may also be Denis' way of saying, "go away".
On the practical side, those who say "I want one" need to consider that,
unlike many of the
aftermarket products out there, an intercooler is a major modification to a
mission-critical
component of the aircraft. If it fails, what will be the consequences?
Denis has the advantage
of having designed his intercooler. His customers won't. For every dollar
you
hand over, you have a right to require an increment of proof of "fitness for
purpose".
Denis needs to state exactly what he is offering before any money changes
hands.
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter van Schoonhoven" <pvans(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Do you want one????
> Well, this is just my opinion, but I would rather invent my own than pay
> another builder $600 for his design and some hardware. This is just not in
> the spirit of homebuilding to charge for information. I doubt that Mr.
> Dennis Vories has the engineering and liability support of say a Textron
> (Cessna) or Bombardier (Rotax) and it just goes against my nature to pay
an
> individual for this type of thing. I understand that it his a wonderful
> design, all debugged and all that, but that still does not do it for me.
If
> it were my design, I would give it away just for the knowledge that others
> benefit from my talent, kind of a "imitation is the finest form of
> flattery" situation.
>
> I would hope that the homebuilding community does not devolve into this
> type of thing.
>
> My preliminary research shows you can get a heat exchanger for under $100
> and some ducting can't be too much more.
>
>
> That's my opinion anyway.
>
> Peter van Schoonhoven
> Battle Ground, WA
> Building a Monowheel with 914 Rotax
>
>
> >Hi folks,
> > spoke to Dennis Vories today, he is ready to avail his
proven
> >version of the intercooler for the 914 turbo engine if we can get
together
> >a minimum of ten people.The price for the kit will be $600 each if we are
a
> >minimum of ten but would reduce considerably if we get more than ten
> >interested parties. I'm compiling a list of those interested to pass on
to
> >dennis,so let me know if you want one.
> >
> > regards Karim.
> ># 420
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
One thing you might like to check regularly is the landing gear frame. I
heared on the weekend that Walter Binders frame broke in front of the
mounting bolts.
Barry Tennant
"STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" schrieb:
>
> David Corbett wrote.......
> "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal."
>
> I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm always worried
that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has anyone
put together a check list of things that should be inspected? Based on the
experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any things you'd
like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during your maintenance
inspections? Are there any really critical things I should look for? Any advise
would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
Any particular reason suggested? Heavy landing, strong x-wind causing
sideways movement, poor welding?
Ed
Quoting Barrington Tennant <Tennant@t-online.de>:
> One thing you might like to check regularly is the landing gear
frame.
> I
> heared on the weekend that Walter Binders frame broke in front of
the
> mounting bolts.
>
> Barry Tennant
>
> "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" schrieb:
> >
> > David Corbett wrote.......
> > "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for
its
> first
> > annual Permit renewal."
> >
> > I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear.
I'm
> always worried that there is something I've overlooked during my
> inspection. Has anyone put together a check list of things that
should
> be inspected? Based on the experience of some of the old-timers on
this
> forum, are there any things you'd like to pass along as problem
areas
> you've discovered during your maintenance inspections? Are there
any
> really critical things I should look for? Any advise would be
greatly
> appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
> >
> > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> >
> >
>
_
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
>
_
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
suitability!
Regards
Roger Mills
141
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi folks,
can anyone recommend a place in the uk that do powder
coating.
regards .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 914 Install Manual |
Kim,
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I haven't purchased the engine yet.
I'll get a new copy of Acrobat.
Graham refers to a new cowl. Can you tell us more?
Thanks
Jim & Heather A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
My take on powder coating is, Do it yourself... The sprayer and power supply
is 99 bucks in the states and the powder is 50 bucks for five pounds. 90% of
the parts will fit in the oven that you can get on garbage day for free.
2
SteveD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Sweeting <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Scales |
Just returned my scales to the Maplin store in Cardiff as it did not operate
correctly.
They refunded my money as the item is on back order.
They advised to re-order by internet, as internet orders have priority over
items ordered from their shops.
So I must of had the last (duff) one..
cheers
Paul Sweeting.
p.s. Great news - Last night secured an offer on an house in Caerphilly with
an attached 30ftX10ft garage, so I'll be seeking workshop construction
advice soon :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Davies [SMTP:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk]
> Sent: 13 March 2002 10:52
> To: forum(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Digital Scales
>
> Oh, the wonders of internet shopping. I will try again. Thanks for the
> info.
>
> Brian Davies
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Sweeting" <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com>
> Subject: Re: Digital Scales
>
>
> > No they're not!, ordered one online at 15:00 yesterday, it arrived first
> > post (08:00am) this morning....
> > Now what can I weigh first????
> >
> > cheers
> > Paul.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brian Davies [SMTP:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk]
> > > Subject: Re: Digital Scales
> > >
> > > They are out of stock!
> > > Brian Davies kit 454
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Nigel Charles" <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com>
> > > Subject: Digital Scales
> > >
> > >
> > > > Anyone in the UK who has not got a set of Digital Scales may be
> > > interested
> > > > in the following:
> > > >
> > > > Maplin Electronics have a special offer on a set of scales (make &
> model
> > > -
> > > > Satrue PS-200). Their order code is VV52. The cost is 29.99
> > > >
> > > > These scales weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g and come with a set of
> > > batteries,
> > > > a calibration weight and a protective case. They have a Tare setting
> and
> > > > weigh up to a maximum of 200g which is ideal for weighing either
> resin
> > > or
> > > > Redux. Even if you have a resin pump you will still need a set of
> scales
> > > > for the Redux so this good be a good deal.
> > > >
> > > > Nigel Charles
> > > >
> > > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
> >
> >
> > The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal
> attention
> > of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the
> intended
> > addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any
> attachments is
> > unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the
> message.
> Any
> > representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to
> contract.
> >
> > ntl Group Limited
> >
> >
>
The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention
of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended
addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is
unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any
representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract.
ntl Group Limited
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for steel
but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Do you want one???? |
Shaun Simpkins wrote:
>
> On the practical side, ...For every dollar you hand over, you have a right to
> require an increment of proof of "fitness for purpose".
>
A practical issue indeed, and one that can be deferred until flight
testing. Reading airbox temp will tell you what an intercooler will
do, and it will be a function of how high altitude/temps one expects
to typically fly. Else, cruise flight at realistic altitudes below
about FL 200 translates to a bit better fuel efficiency. This might
typically work out on the Europa to recovering the $600 in about 40
years at U.S. gas prices.
In June/July, 1993, Aviation Consumer magazine studied them
extensively to basically a hung jury, including considerations such as
enabling more aggressive leaning of the mixture, which we can't do on
the 914.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
400C for 20 mins will be no problem and could in fact be of advantage
in stress relieving the weld areas a little.
Barry Tennant
JW schrieb:
>
> Roger.
> The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
> Jeff
>
> Roger Mills wrote:
>
> > 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
> >
> > Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> > Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
> >
> > Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> > affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> > suitability!
> >
> > Regards
> > Roger Mills
> > 141
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
I am. It won't.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for steel
but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Dawson" <mtd(at)ilkley.fsbusiness.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: PV-50 Controller Web Page |
Dear Mark, I also would be interested in your constant speed controller
for PV50 particularly as I get very near to overspeed on my 914 at times.
Keep us informed please.
Michael Dawson G-PEGY.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants(at)virgin.net>
Subject: Re: PV-50 Controller Web Page
> Dear Mark
> I would certainly be interested in your CSP device for my PV50
> Regards William Mills
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Burton" <markb(at)ordern.com>
> Subject: PV-50 Controller Web Page
>
>
> >
> > A few people have expressed an interest in the PV-50 constant speed
> > controller project. I have therefore put together a simple web page
> > that describes what I have done so far:
> >
> > http://www.ordern.demon.co.uk/markb/pv50controller/index.html
> >
> > At this time I am building this only for myself. In the future, if it
> > proves itself to be useful and trustworthy, I may make it available to
> > others if there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
The benefit of the Europa forum is the wealth of expertise to be tapped
- thanks for an authoritative statement Rob!
The only thing now to ask maybe is will your chosen powder coater
control the process to 400deg C or below for 20 mins or less?
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
I am. It won't.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for
steel but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium. Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
NO, NO, NO. All bets are off if you try this at 400 Celsius. At 375 to 400
Fahrenheit, the normal temperature for powder coating, no harm is done.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Roger Mills
Subject: Re: powder coating
The benefit of the Europa forum is the wealth of expertise to be tapped
- thanks for an authoritative statement Rob!
The only thing now to ask maybe is will your chosen powder coater
control the process to 400deg C or below for 20 mins or less?
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
I am. It won't.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for
steel but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium. Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
When you're ignorant, like wot I am, I think the thread has shown quite
adequately the need for care and checking what you (and, maybe more
importantly, your chosen supplier) are doing! Mixing SI and imperial
units produces dramatic mistakes - as some very clever people found with
the Hubble Telescope apparently.
Maybe it's safer to stick to Scotchbrite pads, Zinc Oxide primer and
paint?
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
NO, NO, NO. All bets are off if you try this at 400 Celsius. At 375 to
400 Fahrenheit, the normal temperature for powder coating, no harm is
done.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Behalf Of Roger Mills
Subject: Re: powder coating
The benefit of the Europa forum is the wealth of expertise to be tapped
- thanks for an authoritative statement Rob!
The only thing now to ask maybe is will your chosen powder coater
control the process to 400deg C or below for 20 mins or less?
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
I am. It won't.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for
steel but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium. Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
| From: | Kim Prout <kpav(at)uia.net> |
On 03/18/2002 9:38, "David Corbett" wrote:
> Hi, Kim,
>
> How nice to see you on the forum - albeit some time ago. I have been abroad,
> and am daily wading through the list of forum e-mails, a few days at a time.
>
> I can vouch for the heat in the San Diego area, particularly on the day you
> so kindly took me for a flight in N111EU in July 2000. What fun that was!
>
> No doubt you noticed the photo that I took of you that day when it was
> published in Europa Flyer recently?
>
> My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> David
>
>
Hello David! Great to hear from you and glad your monowheel is working so
well for you...
Happy Skies!
kp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | ne compartment temperatures |
We have flown about 130 hours on our mono-wheel XS, with Rotax 912S,
since first flight last June. Last fall we noticed high temperatures in
the lower cowl area, melting tie wraps, taking the temper out of muffler
retaining springs, etc. We instrumented the lower cowl area with four
temperature probes that are sampled and logged once every 10 seconds
(along with all engine parameters such as fuel flow, rpm, MAP, etc.). We
measured winter time temps (OAT = 40 degF) of up to 400 degF at
different phases of flight, the worst phase just after leveling off from
a climb and beginning cruise. Extrapolating to summer time temps gets us
to 450+ degF, enough to melt nylon tie wraps, etc.
Over the past several months we have tried about 15 different cooling
modifications/combinations and then tested them in flight, logging data
and then plotting the results graphically, cowl temps vs fuel flow,
where fuel flow provides the best indication of flight phase, i.e.
runnup, takeoff, climb, cruise, etc. We tried opening up the rear duct
area, closing off most of the upper cowl louvers, cutting additional
exit holes in the lower cowl and installed reverse scoops for them and
the exhaust hole. We added cooling holes in the cooling duct, just in
front of the muffler. The best of these configurations reduced max temps
to about 290 degF (OAT of 40 degF), although the results were not very
repeatable.
Finally, last week we built a baffle behind the engine, between the
tops of the foot wells. This, in combination with blocking off 3 of the
4 upper cowl louvers, and cutting the rear of the cooling duct forward 5
inches, gets a very reliable max temp of 215 degF in the lower cowl. The
muffler is the biggest source of heat in the cowl, and this modification
forces the cooling air around the sides of the engine, down past the
muffler, and then out the rear of the cowl, instead of allowing it to
pass over the top of the engine, around the back, and then out, allowing
air to stagnate in the muffler area. Note that in all tests, the upper
cowl area (between the carbs) has remained below 100 degF, exceeding 70
degF only on the ground.
We know that some planes have no problems with cowl temps. We also
believe there are others, like ours, that do. If the spark plug wire
markers in the lower wires shrivel up to little brown strings, you may
want to consider our cooling mod.
regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Hi! Rob.
Thanks for that, I had raised my eyebrows but was lead like a lamb!
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
NO, NO, NO. All bets are off if you try this at 400 Celsius. At 375 to 400
Fahrenheit, the normal temperature for powder coating, no harm is done.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Roger Mills
Subject: Re: powder coating
The benefit of the Europa forum is the wealth of expertise to be tapped
- thanks for an authoritative statement Rob!
The only thing now to ask maybe is will your chosen powder coater
control the process to 400deg C or below for 20 mins or less?
Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
I am. It won't.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Behalf Of Bob Harrison
Subject: Re: powder coating
Hi! Jeff.
I'm no metallurgist but 400 degrees may or may not be a problem for
steel but it could possibly en-brittle aluminium. Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: powder coating
Roger.
The heat is only 400 degrees for only about 20 minutes.
Jeff
Roger Mills wrote:
> 2 helpful companies who do powder coating are:-
>
> Batchglow (at Dinnington near Worksop) (01909 563 051)
> Danum Light Industries at Doncaster (01302 854531)
>
> Bear in mind that powder coating is a heat treatment process and may
> affect the strength of the metal - it might be advisable to check
> suitability!
>
> Regards
> Roger Mills
> 141
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
>My take on powder coating is, Do it yourself... The sprayer and power supply
>is 99 bucks in the states and the powder is 50 bucks for five pounds. 90% of
>the parts will fit in the oven that you can get on garbage day for free.
>SteveD
I'm not entirely convinced by the [powder coating I've seen. It tends to
chip off very easily, so I think I prefer a more resilient 2 pack paint
system ie urethane. However,it could be that preparation is the key. Doing
it yourself and using shot peening first might make a big difference
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Bob:
Just taking the opportunity of your recent invitation to the
Sun'nFun crowd, to send best regards. I am slowly putting A064 together,
having taken far too long to insert the cockpit, and keen to get on with it.
Have opted for a Wilksch diesel which takes away some needed load
capability - but hoping to make up for it in other ways. Unfortunately can't
make S'nF this year......
Just wanted to send regards,
Ferg Kyle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n9zes(at)execpc.com |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Properly done, powder coat is near indestructible. However, the key
is proper surface prep (cleaning, phosphating, drying, etc.) and also
the baking out process. Too hot or too cold will adversely affect the
properties of the finished coating. In addition, the TYPE and QUALITY
of the powder matters. There are different types of powders (epoxy,
polyester, blends, etc), and each has different properties for
different applications.
I had all our external wing bits coated with gloss white powder and
it's just great stuff. I did alodine them first, and they also went
through the 5 stage wash process before coating at the company that
did it. I don't expect to have problems with it.
Chris
> I'm not entirely convinced by the [powder coating I've seen. It
tends to
> chip off very easily, so I think I prefer a more resilient 2 pack
paint
> system ie urethane. However,it could be that preparation is the key.
Doing
> it yourself and using shot peening first might make a big difference
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
I paid US$80 to get my nose gear assembly and main gear legs powder coated
commercially at a local shop; the shop did the prep which I think was grit
blast but probably also included a solvent de-grease step. In all respects
this coating looks very much like the coating on the Europa engine mount and
landing gear mount.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Graham Singleton
Subject: Re: powder coating
>My take on powder coating is, Do it yourself... The sprayer and power
supply
>is 99 bucks in the states and the powder is 50 bucks for five pounds. 90%
of
>the parts will fit in the oven that you can get on garbage day for free.
>SteveD
I'm not entirely convinced by the [powder coating I've seen. It tends to
chip off very easily, so I think I prefer a more resilient 2 pack paint
system ie urethane. However,it could be that preparation is the key. Doing
it yourself and using shot peening first might make a big difference
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Permit checks was Insulating fuel lines |
Bob, et al . .
Just out of curosity, re. the tailplane, how did you manage to remove the cotter
pins and drill out the drive pins and re-assemble?
While the top is still off, I've looked at all of the suggestions for mods in this
area, even my own. I've opened the holes to 5/16", decided that wouldn't
really prevent the eventual wearing and have loctited the parts in place with
3000psi 250 degree f retaining compound. (This is not the 'high strength' stuff)
I perceive repairs to that area as 'would be major surgery' and decided that if
I have to go in there to fix misaligned tailplanes, it would be appropriate to
consider replacing the bronz tailplane bushings. Thus, replacing the bushings
from the heat necessary to remove the tailplane positioners (don't recall the
TP number)would be considered part of the overall repair.
But I am fascinated with how you got out the cotter pins from the 1/4" clevis pins.
How did you see behind the a)shaft, from the forward access and b)rear bulkhead,
from the rear access?
Cleve Lee
A198 N396ST
>
> Hi! Garry.
> Hey I don't consider myself an 'ole timer!' However the big thing that is
> prevalent in my mind is the differential movement between the tailplanes.
> I've twice had to oversize the drive pins, resulting in my mod. of clamps on
> the drive torque tube. Also corrosion on the flap bracket furniture.
> regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
>
>
> David Corbett wrote.......
> "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal."
>
> I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm always
> worried that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has
> anyone put together a check list of things that should be inspected? Based
> on the experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any
> things you'd like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during
> your maintenance inspections? Are there any really critical things I should
> look for? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
>
>
>
>
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | clevelee(at)cswebmail.com |
| Subject: | Re: Photo Web site |
Great progress Dave, keep up the good work!
Cleve
A198 N396ST
>
> In a message dated 03/17/2002 7:27:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> ScramIt(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> For a break from all the technical questions, I have made a small home page
> showing the project started in October - just a few pictures. Not a single
> question!!
>
> Back to work - WIRING.
>
> http://members.aol.com/dja727/DAVEHOMEPAGE.html
>
> Dave Anderson
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thursby" <athursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Maybe it's safer to stick to Scotchbrite pads, Zinc Oxide primer and
paint?
Easier, and cheaper too. And you are correct Graham; I will put a properly
prepped urethane job up against a powder-coated job any day for impact
resistance, (chipping) corrosion protection and cost. The powder coated jobs
that I have seen show no primer underneath. What does that mean? It will
corrode when it gets chipped, and it will get chipped. Besides powder
coating always looks "orange peely" while urethanes look smooth.
Jimmy Thursby
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Roger Mills
Subject: Re: powder coating
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
I just sent out a greeting to Bob Berube, and sent it to everyone by
mistake - sorry
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Digital Scales |
>Just returned my scales to the Maplin store in Cardiff as it did not operate
>correctly.
>They refunded my money as the item is on back order.
>They advised to re-order by internet, as internet orders have priority over
>items ordered from their shops.
>So I must of had the last (duff) one..
>Paul Sweeting.
I had the other duff one. It wouldn't zero so could not be calibrated and
wouldn't weigh either. They swapped it without question and the new one
does work.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Amy Eckel <eckel1(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks Bob and Russell, I'll be there.
John Eckel, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Berube" <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Open House
Hello all,
For everyone building or interested in building Europas who are attending
Sun n Fun, Flight Crafters will be hosting an open house on Sunday April 7th
from 4 to 8pm. Snacks and refreshments included.
Several aircraft in various stages of construction will be available for
viewing. If your just starting your project or are interested in building
one, now is your chance to see building in progress. Meet your fellow
builders and talk Europa all you want!
Directions: From the Sun n Fun Main Entrance, go West on Medulla Rd. to
County Line Rd. Turn Right and go North to I-4. Proceed West on I-4 to
Exit 8 which is Hwy 579. Go South on 579 one block to Hwy 92 and turn left.
Go East on Hwy 92 1 mile to Parsons Rd. and turn right. Go South 1/4 mile
to large metal tan colored building on your left.
If you are unable to attend on Sunday, please feel free to give use a call
at 813 655-6411 and make arrangements for another day. Generally we are
there during daytime hours but due to Sun n Fun we may be at the show as
well.
Regards to everyone,
Russell Lepre & Bob Berube
Flight Crafters
________________________________________________________________________________
A quick question to the group:
I bought wire for the battery cable and of course forgot the fact that the
aircraft wire is aluminum. Neville recommended 4 gauge wire, but there was no
discussion of the material. Aircraft spruce sells 6 gauge copper wire, but
not 4 gauge. I have the battery in the back and the engine is a 914. Does
anybody have a feel whether the 6 gauge copper battery cable will work for
this? I am sure I want to use copper wire..
If it's not one thing, it's something else!
Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Guys & Gals,
For all of you who are reading this forum hoping to build a Europa someday
(or if your just sanding some more!!) I just want to say there is more than
building, sanding and testing - we actually get to go flying!!!
Sunday up here in Seattle we had a nice clear day - the winds were brisk but
thats fun too. My plane is based at Arlington Washington a very busy (very
busy) non-tower airport. I arrived and grabbed my 5gal can and went across
the street and bought gas for exactly HALF the price of the airport fuel. I
pulled my plane out of the hanger and hopped in. I turned the key and even
though it was about 30 degrees (f) the engine cranked right up. (I remember
trying for an hour to start a Lycoming in the same temperature.) I taxied
out (past a few RV's buying gas for twice what I paid).
The airport was busy, first nice day in a long time. I was about number 5
to take off on the main runway, while there were several planes in the
pattern and lots of glider activity on the grass (I saw 4 sailplanes in the
glider pattern at one time!).
I pulled in behind a Skyhawk that just took off and followed him. Funny how
all the sailplane types stop to watch my Europa take off and ignore even the
Learjets. In any case with just me in the plane I was off in a few hundred
feet, pulled up the gear and then throttled back to about 1/2 throttle to
stay behind the 172. I climbed up to about 2,500' and just enjoyed the day.
Its really amazing with me and that plane now - I just sort-of think about
what I want to do and the plane does it. When I first flew my Europa I had
never flown a stick and wondered if it would be hard!! Ha!
Since it was breezy and bumpy I kept the power down and the fuel flow meter
showed 3.2gph and I was cruising between 130-140mph. After tearing up the
sky for a bit I reentered the pattern. This is my favorite part because no
matter what I can fit myself in the mix. I have followed fly-baby's or
Queen Air's and It dosen't make a lot of difference, my Europa is just as
happy at 70mph as it is at 120. I mixed in with the traffic and noticed the
wind sock standing at attention 90 degrees to the runway. People always ask
me about crosswind landings - thinking it might be hard to land a mono-wheel
in a crosswind. Do I keep a wing low or do I kick it out on flare? I guess
I don't really know - maybe I kick it out but it's just like I said about
flying. The plane does what I think and thats about it. In any case I
plopped on the ground, did a little rudder pedal thing (it was really
windy!) and then taxied in past the glider guys who were all watching again.
After pulling up to my hanger and getting out I realized I had that stupid
grin on my face again. I get it every time I go flying in my Europa. I
could have bought another Swift for less, or built an RV like everyone else
but I am sure glad I didn't. I have flown lots of planes and none of them
have given me the stupid grins that the Europa has.
I love my plane!!
Just another day at the airport - keep building guys it's TOTALLY worth it.
Bob Jacobsen
A131 N165BB (Beep Beep)
www.galayhobby.com/europa.htm
ps. Will the Wily Coyote plane ever catch me? Will someone be brave enough
to put the Tazmanian Devil on thier mono-wheel? Just more questions on the
meaning of life!
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Celsius? What's a Celsius? ;-) Sorry if I caused any confusion... I'm in
the US... so, of course I was referring to fahrenheit.
Jeff
Bob Harrison wrote:
> Hi! Rob.
> Thanks for that, I had raised my eyebrows but was lead like a lamb!
> Regards
> Bob H G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: powder coating
>
> NO, NO, NO. All bets are off if you try this at 400 Celsius. At 375 to 400
> Fahrenheit, the normal temperature for powder coating, no harm is done.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
Bob.
Was the Taz comment meant for me? I mentioned to Cliff that I was thinking
about using that character. Regardless... I just keep plugging away. I work
on it every weekend, and often take vacation days so I have three day weekends.
Sometimes I have to spend some time with my elderly parents on Bainbridge
Island. I hate like hell to blow a weekend not working on the airplane, but
they are high on my priority list. I have attempted to work on it in the
evenings, but I can never seem to get anything meaningful done, so I've all but
given up on that. Also, if I work on it in the evenings it can become a bit of
a drudgery. By working hard only on weekends, it does not. I always look
forward to going out to the garage to spend the day.
Jeff
PS. Please drop by some time (any time) if you happen to be out Issaquah way.
Bob Jacobsen wrote:
>
> ps. Will the Wily Coyote plane ever catch me? Will someone be brave enough
> to put the Tazmanian Devil on thier mono-wheel? Just more questions on the
> meaning of life!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
Bob and All
It is fun to have friends to talk flying with. We, up here in the Northwest
corner of the USA, are sure having a good time.
"Wile E. Coyote" (my cartoon tale art) will sure try to catch the
"Roadrunner". I am building as fast as I can, 5 day a week some times. I
love it !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JW <xs191(at)attbi.com> |
Dang. I finally got caught by the reply thing. My reply to Bob was supposed to
go
only to Bob. Sorry all. Please disregard...
JW wrote:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
Hi! Dave.
IMHO after trying very hard with alternatives the best solution is
multistrand copper welding wire.
Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Battery cable
A quick question to the group:
I bought wire for the battery cable and of course forgot the fact that the
aircraft wire is aluminum. Neville recommended 4 gauge wire, but there was
no
discussion of the material. Aircraft spruce sells 6 gauge copper wire, but
not 4 gauge. I have the battery in the back and the engine is a 914. Does
anybody have a feel whether the 6 gauge copper battery cable will work for
this? I am sure I want to use copper wire..
If it's not one thing, it's something else!
Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulating fuel lines |
No Idea but it is a much modified plane.
Barry
bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk schrieb:
>
> Any particular reason suggested? Heavy landing, strong x-wind causing
> sideways movement, poor welding?
>
> Ed
>
> Quoting Barrington Tennant <Tennant@t-online.de>:
>
> > One thing you might like to check regularly is the landing gear
> frame.
> > I
> > heared on the weekend that Walter Binders frame broke in front of
> the
> > mounting bolts.
> >
> > Barry Tennant
> >
> > "STOUT, GARRY V, CFABS" schrieb:
> > >
> > > David Corbett wrote.......
> > > "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for
> its
> > first
> > > annual Permit renewal."
> > >
> > > I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear.
> I'm
> > always worried that there is something I've overlooked during my
> > inspection. Has anyone put together a check list of things that
> should
> > be inspected? Based on the experience of some of the old-timers on
> this
> > forum, are there any things you'd like to pass along as problem
> areas
> > you've discovered during your maintenance inspections? Are there
> any
> > really critical things I should look for? Any advise would be
> greatly
> > appreciated.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
> > >
> > > District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> > > Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
> > >
> > >
> >
> _
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> > >
> >
> _
> > > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
> _
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
> >
> >
>
> /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
> I am. It won't.
That's what I like to see.
Nice and succinct.
M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Annual Permit checks was Insulating fuel lines |
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Subject: Re: Annual Permit checks was Insulating fuel
lines
Bob, et al . .
Just out of curosity, re. the tailplane, how did you manage to remove the
cotter pins and drill out the drive pins and re-assemble?
While the top is still off, I've looked at all of the suggestions for mods
in this area, even my own. I've opened the holes to 5/16", decided that
wouldn't really prevent the eventual wearing and have loctited the parts in
place with 3000psi 250 degree f retaining compound. (This is not the 'high
strength' stuff)
I perceive repairs to that area as 'would be major surgery' and decided that
if I have to go in there to fix misaligned tailplanes, it would be
appropriate to consider replacing the bronz tailplane bushings. Thus,
replacing the bushings from the heat necessary to remove the tailplane
positioners (don't recall the TP number)would be considered part of the
overall repair.
But I am fascinated with how you got out the cotter pins from the 1/4"
clevis pins. How did you see behind the a)shaft, from the forward access
and b)rear bulkhead, from the rear access?
Cleve Lee
A198 N396ST
>
> Hi! Garry.
> Hey I don't consider myself an 'ole timer!' However the big thing that is
> prevalent in my mind is the differential movement between the tailplanes.
> I've twice had to oversize the drive pins, resulting in my mod. of clamps
on
> the drive torque tube. Also corrosion on the flap bracket furniture.
> regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
>
>
> David Corbett wrote.......
> "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal."
>
> I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm
always
> worried that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has
> anyone put together a check list of things that should be inspected?
Based
> on the experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any
> things you'd like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during
> your maintenance inspections? Are there any really critical things I
should
> look for? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
>
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Plane Torque Tube Clamps was Annual Permit checks |
Hi! Cleve
Split pins were removed by long bent nosed pliers through the minimum 5"
diameter access hole by one hand and looking in through the top inspection
hole ajacent to the trim motor drive. The drive pins were jacked out to
start with by a small "C" Clamp then "worried" out by a pair of joiners nail
pullers then mole grips, no drilling.
Just accept that you need to cut back the length of the nylon bushes from
the inboard end to within 1/16th of the edge of the drive pin holes. Then my
mod. can be applied without any dismantling. If you still have the top off
now's the time to do it, you could also reduce the diameter of the washers
on the pins to give my clamps even more purchase area.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
clevelee(at)cswebmail.com
Subject: Re: Annual Permit checks was Insulating fuel
lines
Bob, et al . .
Just out of curosity, re. the tailplane, how did you manage to remove the
cotter pins and drill out the drive pins and re-assemble?
While the top is still off, I've looked at all of the suggestions for mods
in this area, even my own. I've opened the holes to 5/16", decided that
wouldn't really prevent the eventual wearing and have loctited the parts in
place with 3000psi 250 degree f retaining compound. (This is not the 'high
strength' stuff)
I perceive repairs to that area as 'would be major surgery' and decided that
if I have to go in there to fix misaligned tailplanes, it would be
appropriate to consider replacing the bronz tailplane bushings. Thus,
replacing the bushings from the heat necessary to remove the tailplane
positioners (don't recall the TP number)would be considered part of the
overall repair.
But I am fascinated with how you got out the cotter pins from the 1/4"
clevis pins. How did you see behind the a)shaft, from the forward access
and b)rear bulkhead, from the rear access?
Cleve Lee
A198 N396ST
>
> Hi! Garry.
> Hey I don't consider myself an 'ole timer!' However the big thing that is
> prevalent in my mind is the differential movement between the tailplanes.
> I've twice had to oversize the drive pins, resulting in my mod. of clamps
on
> the drive torque tube. Also corrosion on the flap bracket furniture.
> regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: Re: Insulating fuel lines
>
>
> David Corbett wrote.......
> "My monowheel is fantastic - it is now undergoing the checks for its first
> annual Permit renewal."
>
> I'm about to undergo my 3rd "annual" inspection of my tri gear. I'm
always
> worried that there is something I've overlooked during my inspection. Has
> anyone put together a check list of things that should be inspected?
Based
> on the experience of some of the old-timers on this forum, are there any
> things you'd like to pass along as problem areas you've discovered during
> your maintenance inspections? Are there any really critical things I
should
> look for? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Garry V. Stout N4220S Trigear A060
>
> District Manager, AT&T Business Services
> Phone: 813-878-3929 Fax 813-878-5651
>
>
The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe
Better! Faster! More Powerful!
250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now!
http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
>A quick question to the group:
>
>I bought wire for the battery cable and of course forgot the fact that the
>aircraft wire is aluminum. Neville recommended 4 gauge wire, but there was no
>discussion of the material. Aircraft spruce sells 6 gauge copper wire, but
>not 4 gauge. I have the battery in the back and the engine is a 914. Does
>anybody have a feel whether the 6 gauge copper battery cable will work for
>this? I am sure I want to use copper wire..
>
>If it's not one thing, it's something else!
>
>Dave Anderson
Check with Bob Nuckolls but I think you will need 4 gauge or even 2. Either
way the resistance of each connection will have a noticeable effect so
these must be good.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> Check with Bob Nuckolls but I think you will need 4 gauge or even 2.
ACS sell both in MIL tefzel wire. Page 379 of the current catalogue.
Welding wire will save you from getting a strained wrist from working with the
large gauge aircraft wire. It'll also save you getting a strained wallet.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment temperatures |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver" <terrys(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Engine compartment temperatures
> We have flown about 130 hours on our mono-wheel XS, with Rotax 912S,
> since first flight last June. Last fall we noticed high temperatures in
> the lower cowl area, melting tie wraps, taking the temper out of muffler
> retaining springs, etc
snip
> Finally, last week we built a baffle behind the engine, between the
> tops of the foot wells. This, in combination with blocking off 3 of the
> 4 upper cowl louvers, and cutting the rear of the cooling duct forward 5
> inches
Interesting stuff.... any pix of the mods - and any effect on performance?
M
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
| From: | Richard Holder <rholder(at)avnet.co.uk> |
The Europa build manua; specifically recommends NO aluminium.
Aircraft Spruce do sell 4AWG (and 2AWG) mil spec cabling, copper. I know I
bought some 4AWG.
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being built.
> From: DJA727(at)aol.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:04:35 EST
> Subject: Battery cable
>
> A quick question to the group:
>
> I bought wire for the battery cable and of course forgot the fact that the
> aircraft wire is aluminum. Neville recommended 4 gauge wire, but there was no
> discussion of the material. Aircraft spruce sells 6 gauge copper wire, but
> not 4 gauge. I have the battery in the back and the engine is a 914. Does
> anybody have a feel whether the 6 gauge copper battery cable will work for
> this? I am sure I want to use copper wire..
>
> If it's not one thing, it's something else!
>
> Dave Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
Message text written by Graham Singleton
>Check with Bob Nuckolls but I think you will need 4 gauge or even 2.
Either
way the resistance of each connection will have a noticeable effect so
these must be good.<
I would say that, particularly with the lower current draw of a Rotax
starter, 4 guage should be ample. 2 guage would be more appropriate with
the much larger starter currents required by Lycoming/Continental engines.
I agree that the quality of the connections is every bit as important. Even
with rear mounted batteries and a mid sized engine (ie the Subaru) 4 guage
has proved sufficient. The weight saving between 4 and 6 gauge even with a
rear mounted battery is not worth considering as it may cause problems
later when the battery is a little low on capacity.
There was an article about copper v aluminium battery cables in Kitplanes
some years back. Although aluminium has a slightly greater resistance it is
possible to compensate by greater cross sectional area and still win out on
overall weight. Also solid strips of it can be glassed into the sides of
the fuselage if a long length is required making a neat installation. Make
sure that there is adequate glass to ensure good insulation otherwise you
could end up with a nasty electrical fire.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | ery cable - corrosion |
I had an incident in my aircraft last weekend. The issue involved a
battery cable and my lack of awareness of the real corrosive power of
electrical potential.
Paradoxically, headset noise was the first sign of trouble. A background
drone shadowed the engine frequency in flight.
In an effort to resolve the issue, I pulled the panel in a fruitless
search for broken earth cables, wiring issues and suchlike. Thereafter,
the engine was reluctant to start due to insufficient cranking power.
'What had I done ??'
On my next starting attempt, the engine once again cranked reluctantly.
This was immediately followed by the appearance of frightening amounts
of smoke from behind the panel !
A dramatic evacuation followed and the fire extinguisher was made ready.
Fortunately, the smoke cleared in less than a minute.
Cutting to the chase, this problem arose from corrosion.
Specifically, corrosion on the inside face of a battery earth cable lug
at the battery attachment point. (seems obvious with hindsight, doesn't
it !!)
On the negative battery terminal, I have:
1/ A large gauge, starter earth cable. (Oxidised, on closer inspection)
2/ A smaller gauge 'panel earth'. (Functioning normally).
During cranking, because of significantly increased electrical
resistance on starter earth, most of the negative charge was re-routed
and bourn by 'panel earth'. Consequently, this melted insulation on thin
earth wiring behind the panel, which was completely unable to bear the
electrical load of the starter.
Once repairs were completed, the headsets too, performed normally.
Indeed it's worth noting that they were responsible for 'red flagging'
the problem in the first place.
Obviously, battery earth will now receive regular close attention and
will be thoroughly corrosion protected. This is my lesson.
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
tnx
R
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Miles McCallum
Subject: Re: powder coating
> I am. It won't.
That's what I like to see.
Nice and succinct.
M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Sweeting <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: italian translation sought |
Rowland,
Have you tried babelfish.com
For an instatnt electronic translation...
cheers
Paul.
Paul R. Sweeting
HP Certified Professional - HP-UX System Administration
IBM Global Services UK - Ntl Outsource
* Ext. (775)4548 +44 (0)1189 544548 (Winnersh)
* Ext. (761)5674 +44 (0)2920 305674 (Cardiff)
* Mobile +44 (0)7967 470067
* Pager +44 (0)7659 596893
* ntl: paul.sweeting(at)ntl.com
* ibm: sweetip(at)uk.ibm.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Europa Club Membership Secretary
Subject: italian translation sought
As Europa Club membership secretary I've received a document in
Italian that I'd like to get translated so I can respond
appropriately. Does anyone have enough Italian to help, please? It's
less than 300 words so is not too big a job. No need to respond on
the list - direct to the e-mail address below is best.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention
of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended
addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is
unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any
representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract.
ntl Group Limited
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Sweeting <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com> |
| Subject: | ll: italian translation sought |
Paul Sweeting would like to recall the message, " italian
translation sought".
The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention
of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended
addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is
unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any
representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract.
ntl Group Limited
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
| From: | Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu> |
On 3/19/02 11:41 PM, "Bob Jacobsen" wrote:
>
> Just another day at the airport - keep building guys it's TOTALLY worth it.
>
Thanks Bob,
I needed that! I am just back from another build session at FlightCrafters
in Tampa. I am at that wonderful stage of a million little jobs to be done
before bonding on the top.
>For motivational purposes I hopped a ride with John H. at Europa in N914EA.
He wanted to check out the newly re-installed WarpDrive prop / Airmaster
controller combo. It was a warm (90F) but beautiful day at Lakeland as we
climbed at about 1300fpm to 5000. The new prop was working just fine, so we
just knocked around for a few minutes. I quick speed run showed about
164mph at max cruise at this altitude. Then John told me that several
people had hypothesized that the Rotax would be difficult to air start, so
of course we just had to try it! After feathering and stopping the prop at
about 75 mph, we glided for a short while, with a ratio of about 15:1
(short wings this trip), then took the prop out of feather and nosed over a
bit. At 110 mph the prop took a few quarter turn jumps. At 120 mph, with a
single half rotation, the engine caught immediately.
Back on the ground, reinvigorated, I went back to mounting my gascolator.
Pix of the short flight with a stopped prop and my building progress will be
on my web site in a few days.
Cheers,
Ira
N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
Didn't see that article, but seems that Kitplanes is leading builders
down the garden path. Piper once used alum cable to an aft-mounted
battery, but few now have not been replaced with copper. The galvanic
corrosion between the ring connector and wire strands is inevitable,
greatly increasing resistance. Aluminum strip glassed to the
composite would have problems at the connections, and seemingly one
could use cad-plated washers between the strip and ring connector.
But each mating surface is an ohmic connection, adding up to voltage
drop. If it still corrodes in service, it becomes an increasing
effective heating element.
A mere 25 milliohms at a connection would cause a voltage drops that
might not be noticed. Keep cranking a hard-starting engine, and you'd
be dissipating over 100W of heat in a small heat-dissipating area.
Much smaller than that of a 100W, metal finned resistor, which gets
very hot at its power rating if not heat sinked itself.
If memory serves, in WWII they had to use alum house wiring. Long
banned in building codes now, after local fire departments spotted a
trend....
Best,
Fred F.
Nigel Charles wrote:
>
> There was an article about copper v aluminium battery cables in Kitplanes
> some years back. Although aluminium has a slightly greater resistance it is
> possible to compensate by greater cross sectional area and still win out on
> overall weight. Also solid strips of it can be glassed into the sides of
> the fuselage if a long length is required making a neat installation. Make
> sure that there is adequate glass to ensure good insulation otherwise you
> could end up with a nasty electrical fire.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder web page links wanted |
My Europa build site can be found at the fallowing url -
www.goflyin.com/europa
Steve charron A190
>
> Hi All,
>
> We are updating our web site & would like to include links to all the
> builder web pages out there. If you have one, or know of a good one to
> suggest for the Europa site, please send it to me.
>
> Please respond off the newsgroup to the following address:
>
> europa(at)gate.net
>
> Thanks!
>
> John Hurst
> Europa Aircraft
> Lakeland, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, you have to be smarter than the catalog. regarding my concern over the aluminum
wire:
The aircraft wire sold by Aircraft Spruce is:
"standard tin plated copper conductor"
Sure looks like aluminum to me!!
Oh well,
back to work.
Dave Anderson
A227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
>The sprayer and power supply
>is 99 bucks in the states and the powder is 50 bucks for five pounds
I've never knowingly seen this stuff advertised in UK. Does anyone
know if it's available outside USA, and where would be a good place
to start looking?
(Maybe it's in those car-restoring mags that turned up the water-jet
cutting firm?)
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
> ...
> I had all our external wing bits coated with gloss white powder and
> it's just great stuff. I did alodine them first, and they also went
> through the 5 stage wash process before coating at the company that
> did it. I don't expect to have problems with it.
>
> Chris
>
This may be a dumb question, as no exp. with powder coat, but does the
area under a bolt head or nut have to removed? Like the attachment to
wing, where if the stuff fractured, bolt could eventually loosen?
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable |
Tony Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> > Check with Bob Nuckolls but I think you will need 4 gauge or even 2.
>
> ACS sell both in MIL tefzel wire. Page 379 of the current catalogue.
>
> Welding wire will save you from getting a strained wrist from working with the
> large gauge aircraft wire. It'll also save you getting a strained wallet.
>
> Tony
If'n ya do use the stiff Mil-Spec stuff, gotta plan it careful so the
ring connector will be oriented correctly for attachment. Including
bends near the end - cable twists when bent. Not that I necessarily
know from experience, but a Dremel cut-off wheel will easily remove a
swaged ring connector. :-)
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Have the coater mask any areas that will be in contact with other pieces for
two reasons: the stuff will flake or chip, and it is very thick, or at least
thick enough to that it could cause a fit problem in some cases (the main
gear legs on the Tri-Gear comes to mind). I left the nose gear assembly
fully assembled for the coating process because it is unlikely that I would
ever need to take it apart (if it needs work it really needs replacement).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Fred Fillinger
Subject: Re: powder coating
> ...
> I had all our external wing bits coated with gloss white powder and
> it's just great stuff. I did alodine them first, and they also went
> through the 5 stage wash process before coating at the company that
> did it. I don't expect to have problems with it.
>
> Chris
>
This may be a dumb question, as no exp. with powder coat, but does the
area under a bolt head or nut have to removed? Like the attachment to
wing, where if the stuff fractured, bolt could eventually loosen?
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
>Sunday up here in Seattle we had a nice clear day - the winds were brisk
>but thats fun too. My plane is based at Arlington Washington a very busy
>(very busy) non-tower airport.
Bob,
Thanks for that, your description put a grin on my face too. This is what
homebuilding is all about.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
> Then John told me that several
>people had hypothesized that the Rotax would be difficult to air start, so
>of course we just had to try it! After feathering and stopping the prop at
>about 75 mph, we glided for a short while, with a ratio of about 15:1
>(short wings this trip), then took the prop out of feather and nosed over a
>bit. At 110 mph the prop took a few quarter turn jumps. At 120 mph, with a
>single half rotation, the engine caught immediately.
Teh Rotax is not difficult to air start with a feathering prop, which is
not allowed in UK I believe.
It is impossible to air start with a fixed pitch Warp Drive prop in a Europa.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Berube" <bberube(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Hi Ferg,
Thanks for the regards. sorry to not see you at Sun n Fun, maybe next year.
I am looking forward to some Wilksch Europas flying soon.
All the best,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Re: Open House
> Bob:
> Just taking the opportunity of your recent invitation to the
> Sun'nFun crowd, to send best regards. I am slowly putting A064 together,
> having taken far too long to insert the cockpit, and keen to get on with
it.
> Have opted for a Wilksch diesel which takes away some needed load
> capability - but hoping to make up for it in other ways. Unfortunately
can't
> make S'nF this year......
> Just wanted to send regards,
> Ferg Kyle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
Hi Gang,
I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the 12v
3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and that
you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function correctly.
Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs that
are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of 5 or
6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with a
12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on; one
for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no big
deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
Best Regards,
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
troymaynor(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
I am assuming that your LED's come in a housing, quite probably with
leads attached and have a voltage marking. In which case they can be
used as a substitute for the lamp straight away.
Led's by themselves don't have a voltage rating but have to have the
current limited to 20mA to 50mA depending on type and this is what the
resistor is used for. They all used to be 20mA but more recent ones,
especially the super bright ones can handle greater currents.
LED's are polarity sensitive so if you have one with leads then make
sure the black goes to the ground side of the wiring and the red goes to
the positive side. Get it the wrong way round and it won't light up for
you. You can test the pre wired LED's with a 9v battery if the wires are
the same colour. It'll only light up if you have it the right way round.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
Subject: LEDs
Hi Gang,
I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the
12v
3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and
that
you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function
correctly.
Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs
that
are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of
5 or
6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity
with a
12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master
on; one
for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no
big
deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can. Best
Regards,
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
troymaynor(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I was out flying yesterday evening also. It was cold, 1500 ft ceiling a
gusty 25 Kt wind, I bounced arround for 20 mins and landed again but I
am sure that I had the same grin on my face as Bob had!!!
I have been flying D-EHBT for nearly 5 years and still find it a huge
kick.
They call me the "Luft Junkie" at our field because of the strange up in
th clouds look on my face every time I land!!!
Have a nice day all.
Barry Tennant
Graham Singleton schrieb:
>
> >Sunday up here in Seattle we had a nice clear day - the winds were brisk
> >but thats fun too. My plane is based at Arlington Washington a very busy
> >(very busy) non-tower airport.
>
> Bob,
> Thanks for that, your description put a grin on my face too. This is what
> homebuilding is all about.
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Goldyfire(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment temperatures |
Dear Terry,
Which exhaust system has your 912S?
Last year Europa changed from the cylindrical muffler Heggerman type, to the
oval Falcon type which allows for more air to flow over it! Has anyone had
overheating with the new type?
Derek
167
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery cable - corrosion |
I beleive a similar wiring installation was the cause of in-flight fire in a
Ban-bi in France. A small wire direct to the battery -ve had set fire to the
insulation causing a fire on the engine side of the firewall. I think the
wire also ran into the cockpit and caused smoke in the cabin.
Luckily the pilot was able to make a forced landing (maybe without flaps)
into a stubble field. Apart form the damage caused by the fire the A/C got
away unscathed. It is my understanding that separate -ve wires to the
battery are a bad idea for this very reason. The earth return should be
taken back to the non battery end of the earth strap (the engine).
In the case of the Ban-bi it was just ordinary electrical power and not the
starter that had caused a fire in a very undersized wire when the main
engine earth wire failed due to incorrect installation.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Battery cable - corrosion
>
> I had an incident in my aircraft last weekend. The issue involved a
> battery cable and my lack of awareness of the real corrosive power of
> electrical potential.
>
> Paradoxically, headset noise was the first sign of trouble. A background
> drone shadowed the engine frequency in flight.
>
> In an effort to resolve the issue, I pulled the panel in a fruitless
> search for broken earth cables, wiring issues and suchlike. Thereafter,
> the engine was reluctant to start due to insufficient cranking power.
> 'What had I done ??'
>
> On my next starting attempt, the engine once again cranked reluctantly.
> This was immediately followed by the appearance of frightening amounts
> of smoke from behind the panel !
>
> A dramatic evacuation followed and the fire extinguisher was made ready.
> Fortunately, the smoke cleared in less than a minute.
>
> Cutting to the chase, this problem arose from corrosion.
> Specifically, corrosion on the inside face of a battery earth cable lug
> at the battery attachment point. (seems obvious with hindsight, doesn't
> it !!)
>
> On the negative battery terminal, I have:
>
> 1/ A large gauge, starter earth cable. (Oxidised, on closer inspection)
> 2/ A smaller gauge 'panel earth'. (Functioning normally).
>
> During cranking, because of significantly increased electrical
> resistance on starter earth, most of the negative charge was re-routed
> and bourn by 'panel earth'. Consequently, this melted insulation on thin
> earth wiring behind the panel, which was completely unable to bear the
> electrical load of the starter.
>
> Once repairs were completed, the headsets too, performed normally.
> Indeed it's worth noting that they were responsible for 'red flagging'
> the problem in the first place.
>
> Obviously, battery earth will now receive regular close attention and
> will be thoroughly corrosion protected. This is my lesson.
>
> Alan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
It's in the instructions under
MCR VLA control inspection before first flight.
then
rudder control system
Push down the Aircraft tail to lock the front wheel and check that the
offset of the rudder control surface trailing edge from the fin is 1cm to
the right for the Rotax engine
Put all the controls in neutral then adjust the rudder offset with the two
tunbuckles in the tunnel behind the brakes. Fly the A/C and note rudder
correction. Either adjust the turnbuckles again now or fit a small trim to
the rudder and adjust next time the tunnel is off. The trim can be a piece
of electrical wire or small tube for example taped to the side of the
rudder.
regards
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
----- Original Message -----
From: "JW" <xs191(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: powder coating
> Celsius? What's a Celsius? ;-) Sorry if I caused any confusion... I'm
in
> the US... so, of course I was referring to fahrenheit.
>
> Jeff
>
> Bob Harrison wrote:
>
> > Hi! Rob.
> > Thanks for that, I had raised my eyebrows but was lead like a lamb!
> > Regards
> > Bob H G-PTAG
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: powder coating
> >
> > NO, NO, NO. All bets are off if you try this at 400 Celsius. At 375 to
400
> > Fahrenheit, the normal temperature for powder coating, no harm is done.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Rob Housman
> > A070
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Message text written by INTERNET:TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
>I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the
12v
3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and
that
you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function
correctly.
Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs
that
are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of 5
or
6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with a
12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on;
one
for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no
big
deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.<
I remember the discussion as well. As far as I can remember I think the
regulator needs a significant load to indicate properly. To this end if you
wish to use LED's, as well as the usual current limiting resistor in
series, I suggest you put another load in parallel with the resistor LED
combination. This could be a conventional bulb behind the panel but for
better reliability a high wattage resistor would be better. I would try a
100ohm 2watt resistor. If you are buying LED's without the series resistor
already included wire in a resistor which will give the current specified
by the LED ( eg. for a 25mA LED a 470ohm resistor will be fine).
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
| From: | Ira Rampil <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu> |
Hi Graham,
That is an interesting observation. I must be missing
some critical aspect of the physics involved in the difference between the
two props and their hubs. In order to airstart an engine, the prop must be
taken out of feather in order for the relative wind to impart a rotational
force. Is it a matter of degree of prop pitch? What am I missing?
Ira
On 3/20/02 4:15 PM, "Graham Singleton" wrote:
>> Then John told me that several
>> people had hypothesized that the Rotax would be difficult to air start, so
>> of course we just had to try it! After feathering and stopping the prop at
>> about 75 mph, we glided for a short while, with a ratio of about 15:1
>> (short wings this trip), then took the prop out of feather and nosed over a
>> bit. At 110 mph the prop took a few quarter turn jumps. At 120 mph, with a
>> single half rotation, the engine caught immediately.
>
> Teh Rotax is not difficult to air start with a feathering prop, which is
> not allowed in UK I believe.
>
> It is impossible to air start with a fixed pitch Warp Drive prop in a Europa.
>
> Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
Hi, Troy -
LEDology simple for autos and planes, as you can assume the extra
volts when the alternator is working equals the forward voltage of the
LED. Divide 12 volts, not 13.75V, by .020 (typical current figger),
and that's a 620 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
Some LEDs have internal dropping "resistor," and your "12 volt rating"
sounds like just that, and they should take 13.75. No drop resistor,
but I have some suggestions that can deny their use.
Another factor is viewing angle. Too wide are dimmish. Too narrow can
be annoying, esp with clear lens, or miss the warning cue. Color,
too, in sunlight, and there's whites and blues nowadays. LEDs are so
cheap, for sunlight use, I buy an assortment and make them show me
something outside. And there's .4" square, white diffused lens jobs
that can be black-letter, clear-labeled on the face. Real cool are
LEDs with built-in flasher chip.
Alt warning lite may be a problem, as its operation may depend upon
the low resistance
of the incandescent lamp (Tony, Rotax Dealer?). Wouldn't bet what an
LED will do when the "L" line goes low on all faults, thus requiring a
10# sledge hammer to fully test. Safer bet is an NPN transistor
circuit, reverse biased to off at the emitter when that line is high,
like when alternator is OK, equivalent lamp resistance emitter to
ground, unfortunately wasting c. 1/4 amp. LED/dropper in collector.
Further details on request.
For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
transistor circuit to sense an open:
Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it
doesn't do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current
flowing through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of
dirt/grease on the shoot bolts.
Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
showing off features like that.
For oil press, there are oil pressure switches like to fire up a Hobbs
meter. But you don't want to plumb a tee in the Rotax oil pressure
sender, a potential engine failure looking for a time to happen. To
electrically tap the Rotax sender, your oil pressure gauge circuit
would have to see at least .7V there, at alert PSI, and an add-on
transistor circuit must not load or bias it so as to cause inaccurate
gauge reading. A more complex IC comparator circuit may be the only
way.
For "master on," an LED always on, off when shutting down, is not a
good alert. I'd try to invert the logic, with flashing LED (or see
below), by grounding LED circuit through again the "L" thing on the
alt reg. It looks good on paper, and would alert only between engine
and master off.
For vital warnings, there's also "Sonalert" type devices. Whistles,
warbles, buzzers, chimes, sirens, and up to enough decibels to cause
soiling of the shorts. We go to power transistors where needed then,
due to current.
Best,
Fred F.
TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the 12v
> 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and that
> you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function correctly.
> Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs that
> are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of 5 or
> 6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with a
> 12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on; one
> for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no big
> deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
> Best Regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine compartment temperatures |
Goldyfire(at)cs.com wrote:
> Dear Terry,
> Which exhaust system has your 912S?
> Last year Europa changed from the cylindrical muffler Heggerman type, to the
> oval Falcon type which allows for more air to flow over it! Has anyone had
> overheating with the new type?
> Derek
> 167
Hi Derek,
We have had two of the oval type. The first had a slip ring interface to the
header pipes, which had failed by the third flight (the small retaining springs
lost their tension). The slip rings also leaked some exhaust gases that made
its way into the cabin, via the upper cowl louvers. We later got an oval
muffler with ball joint interfaces to the header pipes. The muffler retaining
springs on that system lost their tension after less than 50 hours (on the
starboard side).
regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
Graham Singleton wrote:
> > Then John told me that several
> >people had hypothesized that the Rotax would be difficult to air start, so
> >of course we just had to try it! After feathering and stopping the prop at
> >about 75 mph, we glided for a short while, with a ratio of about 15:1
> >(short wings this trip), then took the prop out of feather and nosed over a
> >bit. At 110 mph the prop took a few quarter turn jumps. At 120 mph, with a
> >single half rotation, the engine caught immediately.
>
> Teh Rotax is not difficult to air start with a feathering prop, which is
> not allowed in UK I believe.
>
> It is impossible to air start with a fixed pitch Warp Drive prop in a Europa.
>
> Graham
>
We tried an air start with our 912S and Whirlwind prop, which is non-feathering.
It stopped windmilling at around 60 knots, and air started at around 110 knots.
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom & Cathy Friedland <tfriedland(at)attbi.com> |
Hi Europaphiles
I plan to use red, green and white LEDs under molded plastic lenses for position
lights. There of course are lots of advantages, low power consumption, long
lasting, bright, etc. I just need to make the lenses!
Tom Friedland XS Mono N96V
Fred Fillinger wrote:
> Hi, Troy -
>
> LEDology simple for autos and planes, as you can assume the extra
> volts when the alternator is working equals the forward voltage of the
> LED. Divide 12 volts, not 13.75V, by .020 (typical current figger),
> and that's a 620 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
>
> Some LEDs have internal dropping "resistor," and your "12 volt rating"
> sounds like just that, and they should take 13.75. No drop resistor,
> but I have some suggestions that can deny their use.
>
> Another factor is viewing angle. Too wide are dimmish. Too narrow can
> be annoying, esp with clear lens, or miss the warning cue. Color,
> too, in sunlight, and there's whites and blues nowadays. LEDs are so
> cheap, for sunlight use, I buy an assortment and make them show me
> something outside. And there's .4" square, white diffused lens jobs
> that can be black-letter, clear-labeled on the face. Real cool are
> LEDs with built-in flasher chip.
>
> Alt warning lite may be a problem, as its operation may depend upon
> the low resistance
> of the incandescent lamp (Tony, Rotax Dealer?). Wouldn't bet what an
> LED will do when the "L" line goes low on all faults, thus requiring a
> 10# sledge hammer to fully test. Safer bet is an NPN transistor
> circuit, reverse biased to off at the emitter when that line is high,
> like when alternator is OK, equivalent lamp resistance emitter to
> ground, unfortunately wasting c. 1/4 amp. LED/dropper in collector.
> Further details on request.
>
> For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
> battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
> bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
> mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
> transistor circuit to sense an open:
>
> Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
> through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
> ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
> unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it
> doesn't do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current
> flowing through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of
> dirt/grease on the shoot bolts.
>
> Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
> through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
> close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
> thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
> to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
> showing off features like that.
>
> For oil press, there are oil pressure switches like to fire up a Hobbs
> meter. But you don't want to plumb a tee in the Rotax oil pressure
> sender, a potential engine failure looking for a time to happen. To
> electrically tap the Rotax sender, your oil pressure gauge circuit
> would have to see at least .7V there, at alert PSI, and an add-on
> transistor circuit must not load or bias it so as to cause inaccurate
> gauge reading. A more complex IC comparator circuit may be the only
> way.
>
> For "master on," an LED always on, off when shutting down, is not a
> good alert. I'd try to invert the logic, with flashing LED (or see
> below), by grounding LED circuit through again the "L" thing on the
> alt reg. It looks good on paper, and would alert only between engine
> and master off.
>
> For vital warnings, there's also "Sonalert" type devices. Whistles,
> warbles, buzzers, chimes, sirens, and up to enough decibels to cause
> soiling of the shorts. We go to power transistors where needed then,
> due to current.
>
> Best,
> Fred F.
>
> TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gang,
> > I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the 12v
> > 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and that
> > you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function correctly.
> > Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs that
> > are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of 5
or
> > 6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with a
> > 12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on; one
> > for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> > engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no big
> > deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
> > Best Regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
Ira,
Generally, when a prop is driven out of feather, it passes through a blade
position that is more condusive to starting prop/engine rotation. Mainly
because as there is no engine rotation, the relative airflow to the prop is
from straight ahead. However, a stationary fixed pitch prop when presented
with this airflow from straight ahead is effectively stalled - a just a flat
plate. That is why the fixed prop is so draggy.
CS props generally go from fine pitch through coarse pitch to the feather
position.
regards,
MP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ira Rampil" <rampil(at)anesthes.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Re: Flying (with an Airstart!)
> Hi Graham,
>
> That is an interesting observation. I must be missing
> some critical aspect of the physics involved in the difference between the
> two props and their hubs. In order to airstart an engine, the prop must
be
> taken out of feather in order for the relative wind to impart a rotational
> force. Is it a matter of degree of prop pitch? What am I missing?
>
> Ira
>
>
> On 3/20/02 4:15 PM, "Graham Singleton" wrote:
>
> >> Then John told me that several
> >> people had hypothesized that the Rotax would be difficult to air start,
so
> >> of course we just had to try it! After feathering and stopping the
prop at
> >> about 75 mph, we glided for a short while, with a ratio of about 15:1
> >> (short wings this trip), then took the prop out of feather and nosed
over a
> >> bit. At 110 mph the prop took a few quarter turn jumps. At 120 mph,
with a
> >> single half rotation, the engine caught immediately.
> >
> > Teh Rotax is not difficult to air start with a feathering prop, which is
> > not allowed in UK I believe.
> >
> > It is impossible to air start with a fixed pitch Warp Drive prop in a
Europa.
> >
> > Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Depends what alternator you have.
In an automotive type alternator the "charge" lamp doubles as a resistor to
enable excitation current to be supplied to the field windings prior to the
alternator running fast enough to be self exciting.
To get enough current flowing for this purpose means that the lamp needs to
be about 2w (for 12v systems).
For the Rotax alternator with permanent magnet field, none of this is
needed. So a LED will do without any paralleling resistor. Series resistor
may be needed however, typically 600 ohms or thereabouts depending on
voltage.
DuncanMcFadyean
On Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:31 AM, TroyMaynor(at)aol.com
[SMTP:TroyMaynor(at)aol.com] wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the
12v
> 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and
that
> you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function
correctly.
> Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs
that
> are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of
5 or
> 6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with
a
> 12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on;
one
> for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no
big
> deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
> Best Regards,
>
> Troy Maynor
> N120EU Monowheel Classic
> troymaynor(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
>Hi Graham,
>
>That is an interesting observation. I must be missing
>some critical aspect of the physics involved in the difference between the
>two props and their hubs. In order to airstart an engine, the prop must be
>taken out of feather in order for the relative wind to impart a rotational
>force. Is it a matter of degree of prop pitch? What am I missing?
>
>Ira
Hi Ira,
As someone said, the stationary prop needs a very high pitch setting to
give any torque to start the engine. A stalled blade won't do it with a
geared engine.
graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
McFadyean wrote:
>
> For the Rotax alternator with permanent magnet field, none of this is
> needed. So a LED will do without any paralleling resistor. Series resistor
> may be needed however, typically 600 ohms or thereabouts depending on
> voltage.
Inoperative, there's infinite resistance to ground; operative it has
to go high to bus voltage so the lamp won't light. But it does
measure one semiconductor junction's worth to ground on a diode check,
so I think I know what's in there. A dummy resistor load will surely
work, but wastes current. I think just an LED to the "L" terminal
will work, but having not gambled in many years, I've lost the ability
to spot a good 1 to 5 shot.
Another thought is that they call these idiot lights on cars. Best I
think is volt and amp meters, as the alt lamp may not identify all
faults. Circuitry to add aural/visual alerts on overs and unders
isn't too complicated, even w/o meters, if so capable or desirous to
learn another hobby.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LTS" <lts(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Apologies for earlier bizarre Email, somehow sent to the wrong address. Just
as well it wasn't anything sensitive.
Jerry
Jerry(at)ban-bi.com or LTS(at)avnet.co.uk
www.Ban-bi.com or www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying (with an Airstart!) |
<4.3.2.7.2.20020320211311.00c7c560(at)pop3.norton.antivirus>
>We tried an air start with our 912S and Whirlwind prop, which is
>non-feathering.
>
>It stopped windmilling at around 60 knots, and air started at around 110
>knots.
>
>Terry Seaver
>A135/N135TD
I guess that might be because it is 2 blade, which would give more torque
than a 3 blade? if it is bigger diameter? Or maybe coarser pitch than on a
912 Warp.
Graham in guessing mode.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <grasingleton(at)avnet.co.uk> |
<3C9A044E.A7802083(at)ameritech.net>
>Hi Europaphiles
>
>I plan to use red, green and white LEDs under molded plastic lenses for
>position
>lights. There of course are lots of advantages, low power consumption, long
>lasting, bright, etc. I just need to make the lenses!
>
>Tom Friedland XS Mono N96V
Get some 2mm Plexiglas, make male moulds or plugs covered in billiard table
cloth. Heat the Plexi in an oven to about 150 deg C and pull over the plug(s)
There was an article in Sport Aviation about this a month or two ago.
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com> |
I have a red 12V LED installed for the Alt warning light and it works fine.
Klaus
Tom & Cathy Friedland wrote:
> Hi Europaphiles
>
> I plan to use red, green and white LEDs under molded plastic lenses for position
> lights. There of course are lots of advantages, low power consumption, long
> lasting, bright, etc. I just need to make the lenses!
>
> Tom Friedland XS Mono N96V
>
> Fred Fillinger wrote:
>
> > Hi, Troy -
> >
> > LEDology simple for autos and planes, as you can assume the extra
> > volts when the alternator is working equals the forward voltage of the
> > LED. Divide 12 volts, not 13.75V, by .020 (typical current figger),
> > and that's a 620 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
> >
> > Some LEDs have internal dropping "resistor," and your "12 volt rating"
> > sounds like just that, and they should take 13.75. No drop resistor,
> > but I have some suggestions that can deny their use.
> >
> > Another factor is viewing angle. Too wide are dimmish. Too narrow can
> > be annoying, esp with clear lens, or miss the warning cue. Color,
> > too, in sunlight, and there's whites and blues nowadays. LEDs are so
> > cheap, for sunlight use, I buy an assortment and make them show me
> > something outside. And there's .4" square, white diffused lens jobs
> > that can be black-letter, clear-labeled on the face. Real cool are
> > LEDs with built-in flasher chip.
> >
> > Alt warning lite may be a problem, as its operation may depend upon
> > the low resistance
> > of the incandescent lamp (Tony, Rotax Dealer?). Wouldn't bet what an
> > LED will do when the "L" line goes low on all faults, thus requiring a
> > 10# sledge hammer to fully test. Safer bet is an NPN transistor
> > circuit, reverse biased to off at the emitter when that line is high,
> > like when alternator is OK, equivalent lamp resistance emitter to
> > ground, unfortunately wasting c. 1/4 amp. LED/dropper in collector.
> > Further details on request.
> >
> > For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
> > battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
> > bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
> > mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
> > transistor circuit to sense an open:
> >
> > Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
> > through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
> > ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
> > unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it
> > doesn't do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current
> > flowing through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of
> > dirt/grease on the shoot bolts.
> >
> > Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
> > through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
> > close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
> > thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
> > to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
> > showing off features like that.
> >
> > For oil press, there are oil pressure switches like to fire up a Hobbs
> > meter. But you don't want to plumb a tee in the Rotax oil pressure
> > sender, a potential engine failure looking for a time to happen. To
> > electrically tap the Rotax sender, your oil pressure gauge circuit
> > would have to see at least .7V there, at alert PSI, and an add-on
> > transistor circuit must not load or bias it so as to cause inaccurate
> > gauge reading. A more complex IC comparator circuit may be the only
> > way.
> >
> > For "master on," an LED always on, off when shutting down, is not a
> > good alert. I'd try to invert the logic, with flashing LED (or see
> > below), by grounding LED circuit through again the "L" thing on the
> > alt reg. It looks good on paper, and would alert only between engine
> > and master off.
> >
> > For vital warnings, there's also "Sonalert" type devices. Whistles,
> > warbles, buzzers, chimes, sirens, and up to enough decibels to cause
> > soiling of the shorts. We go to power transistors where needed then,
> > due to current.
> >
> > Best,
> > Fred F.
> >
> > TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Gang,
> > > I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the 12v
> > > 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and that
> > > you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function correctly.
> > > Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs that
> > > are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of
5 or
> > > 6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with
a
> > > 12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on;
one
> > > for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> > > engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no
big
> > > deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
> > > Best Regards,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills(at)btopenworld.com> |
Fred,
Just a tip from experience; initially I had the same idea as you about
using the shoot bolt to complete a circuit to warn you of any doors
open. I found that after a few weeks' use, oxidisation, lubricant, dirt
or whatever makes the contact very poor quality - after a month it was
useless, intermittently reading infinity or several Megohms. Eventually
I had to install a micro switch operated by the full travel of the shoot
bolt in its socket - but you have to be careful not to end up with too
much pressure on the end of the shoot bolt.
This was just my experience - you may have more luck but the shoot bolt
remains a dodgy proposition in my view!
Not sure about your abuse of transistors though!!
Best Regards
Roger Mills
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: LEDs
Hi, Troy -
LEDology simple for autos and planes, as you can assume the extra volts
when the alternator is working equals the forward voltage of the LED.
Divide 12 volts, not 13.75V, by .020 (typical current figger), and
that's a 620 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
Some LEDs have internal dropping "resistor," and your "12 volt rating"
sounds like just that, and they should take 13.75. No drop resistor,
but I have some suggestions that can deny their use.
Another factor is viewing angle. Too wide are dimmish. Too narrow can
be annoying, esp with clear lens, or miss the warning cue. Color, too,
in sunlight, and there's whites and blues nowadays. LEDs are so cheap,
for sunlight use, I buy an assortment and make them show me something
outside. And there's .4" square, white diffused lens jobs that can be
black-letter, clear-labeled on the face. Real cool are LEDs with
built-in flasher chip.
Alt warning lite may be a problem, as its operation may depend upon the
low resistance of the incandescent lamp (Tony, Rotax Dealer?). Wouldn't
bet what an LED will do when the "L" line goes low on all faults, thus
requiring a 10# sledge hammer to fully test. Safer bet is an NPN
transistor circuit, reverse biased to off at the emitter when that line
is high, like when alternator is OK, equivalent lamp resistance emitter
to ground, unfortunately wasting c. 1/4 amp. LED/dropper in collector.
Further details on request.
For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
transistor circuit to sense an open:
Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it doesn't
do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current flowing
through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of dirt/grease on the
shoot bolts.
Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
showing off features like that.
For oil press, there are oil pressure switches like to fire up a Hobbs
meter. But you don't want to plumb a tee in the Rotax oil pressure
sender, a potential engine failure looking for a time to happen. To
electrically tap the Rotax sender, your oil pressure gauge circuit would
have to see at least .7V there, at alert PSI, and an add-on transistor
circuit must not load or bias it so as to cause inaccurate gauge
reading. A more complex IC comparator circuit may be the only
way.
For "master on," an LED always on, off when shutting down, is not a good
alert. I'd try to invert the logic, with flashing LED (or see below),
by grounding LED circuit through again the "L" thing on the alt reg. It
looks good on paper, and would alert only between engine and master off.
For vital warnings, there's also "Sonalert" type devices. Whistles,
warbles, buzzers, chimes, sirens, and up to enough decibels to cause
soiling of the shorts. We go to power transistors where needed then,
due to current.
Best,
Fred F.
TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned
> the 12v 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to
> an LED and that you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the
> regulator function correctly. Does anyone know what will work for sure
> on this? I have some nice LEDs that are 12 volt rated that I want to
> use. In fact I want to make a series of 5 or 6 warning LEDs on a
> little panel to operate at the correct intensity with a 12 volt input
> to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on; one for
> alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this
> no big deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you
> can. Best Regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Message text written by Fred Fillinger
>For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
> > battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
> > bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
> > mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
> > transistor circuit to sense an open:
> >
> > Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
> > through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
> > ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
> > unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it
> > doesn't do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current
> > flowing through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of
> > dirt/grease on the shoot bolts.
> >
> > Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
> > through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
> > close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
> > thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
> > to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
> > showing off features like that.<
Sounds horribly complicated. I used a pair of microswitches and one light
per door - works fine.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Having responded to the author of the quote below I thought it might be
helpful to others to bear in mind the importance of correct wiring layout.
>During cranking, because of significantly increased electrical
resistance on starter earth, most of the negative charge was re-routed
and bourn by 'panel earth'. Consequently, this melted insulation on thin
earth wiring behind the panel, which was completely unable to bear the
electrical load of the starter.<
Can I recommend that the panel earth is routed via the engine to the
battery. That way if it happens again the panel earth will not try to take
the load. Think of the system being a spur system starting from the engine.
Apart from anything else you must have had an unintentional earth loop for
an alternative path to become available.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
An ounce of experience is worth a tonne of theorising!
Duncan McFadyean
On Friday, March 22, 2002 10:01 AM, Klaus Dietrich [SMTP:Klaus.Dietrich(at)oracle.com]
wrote:
> I have a red 12V LED installed for the Alt warning light and it works fine.
> Klaus
>
> Tom & Cathy Friedland wrote:
>
> > Hi Europaphiles
> >
> > I plan to use red, green and white LEDs under molded plastic lenses for position
> > lights. There of course are lots of advantages, low power consumption, long
> > lasting, bright, etc. I just need to make the lenses!
> >
> > Tom Friedland XS Mono N96V
> >
> > Fred Fillinger wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, Troy -
> > >
> > > LEDology simple for autos and planes, as you can assume the extra
> > > volts when the alternator is working equals the forward voltage of the
> > > LED. Divide 12 volts, not 13.75V, by .020 (typical current figger),
> > > and that's a 620 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor.
> > >
> > > Some LEDs have internal dropping "resistor," and your "12 volt rating"
> > > sounds like just that, and they should take 13.75. No drop resistor,
> > > but I have some suggestions that can deny their use.
> > >
> > > Another factor is viewing angle. Too wide are dimmish. Too narrow can
> > > be annoying, esp with clear lens, or miss the warning cue. Color,
> > > too, in sunlight, and there's whites and blues nowadays. LEDs are so
> > > cheap, for sunlight use, I buy an assortment and make them show me
> > > something outside. And there's .4" square, white diffused lens jobs
> > > that can be black-letter, clear-labeled on the face. Real cool are
> > > LEDs with built-in flasher chip.
> > >
> > > Alt warning lite may be a problem, as its operation may depend upon
> > > the low resistance
> > > of the incandescent lamp (Tony, Rotax Dealer?). Wouldn't bet what an
> > > LED will do when the "L" line goes low on all faults, thus requiring a
> > > 10# sledge hammer to fully test. Safer bet is an NPN transistor
> > > circuit, reverse biased to off at the emitter when that line is high,
> > > like when alternator is OK, equivalent lamp resistance emitter to
> > > ground, unfortunately wasting c. 1/4 amp. LED/dropper in collector.
> > > Further details on request.
> > >
> > > For door ajar, you can pop-rivet springy tangs or coils, out of a
> > > battery compartment from junk electronic stuff, to contact each shoot
> > > bolt, wired in series from through the internal metal of bolt
> > > mechanisms, port to starboard, to a ground. You'll need an NPN
> > > transistor circuit to sense an open:
> > >
> > > Tie base and collector together to really annoy the transistor. 14V
> > > through LED dropping resistor to base-collector. LED from emitter to
> > > ground. Base-collector to the shoot bolt circuit open end. It's an
> > > unswitch - when shoot bolt switch turned on, grounding base, it
> > > doesn't do anything. The triple-duty resistor also limits current
> > > flowing through exposed door hardware and minimizes effect of
> > > dirt/grease on the shoot bolts.
> > >
> > > Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
> > > through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
> > > close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
> > > thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
> > > to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
> > > showing off features like that.
> > >
> > > For oil press, there are oil pressure switches like to fire up a Hobbs
> > > meter. But you don't want to plumb a tee in the Rotax oil pressure
> > > sender, a potential engine failure looking for a time to happen. To
> > > electrically tap the Rotax sender, your oil pressure gauge circuit
> > > would have to see at least .7V there, at alert PSI, and an add-on
> > > transistor circuit must not load or bias it so as to cause inaccurate
> > > gauge reading. A more complex IC comparator circuit may be the only
> > > way.
> > >
> > > For "master on," an LED always on, off when shutting down, is not a
> > > good alert. I'd try to invert the logic, with flashing LED (or see
> > > below), by grounding LED circuit through again the "L" thing on the
> > > alt reg. It looks good on paper, and would alert only between engine
> > > and master off.
> > >
> > > For vital warnings, there's also "Sonalert" type devices. Whistles,
> > > warbles, buzzers, chimes, sirens, and up to enough decibels to cause
> > > soiling of the shorts. We go to power transistors where needed then,
> > > due to current.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Fred F.
> > >
> > > TroyMaynor(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gang,
> > > > I have searched but can't find it in the archive. Someone mentioned the
12v
> > > > 3w lamp that is the alternator warning lamp being changed to an LED and
that
> > > > you had to add a resistor, I think, to make the regulator function correctly.
> > > > Does anyone know what will work for sure on this? I have some nice LEDs
that
> > > > are 12 volt rated that I want to use. In fact I want to make a series of
5 or
> > > > 6 warning LEDs on a little panel to operate at the correct intensity with
a
> > > > 12 volt input to each. I am planning to use one for oil press./master on;
one
> > > > for alternator; one for door ajar; one for engine monitor; and starter
> > > > engaged. The alternator one is the one I was concerned about. Is this no
big
> > > > deal to do? I am electronically challenged. Please help if you can.
> > > > Best Regards,
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
The "idiot" light tells you (when it is on) that the alternator output
voltage is lower than the bus/battery voltage. And nothing else.
When the light is out, the battery is not necessarily charging ( as output
voltage may be below the c.13.4 volts required for charging).
My preference is for a voltmeter; which will tell the state of charge of
the battery before start-up and whether charging is taking place during
engine run. The amount by which charging is taking place (as indicated by
an ammeter), I find a little academic.
Duncan McFadyean
On Friday, March 22, 2002 4:42 AM, Fred Fillinger
[SMTP:fillinger(at)ameritech.net] wrote:
> McFadyean wrote:
> >
> > For the Rotax alternator with permanent magnet field, none of this is
> > needed. So a LED will do without any paralleling resistor. Series
resistor
> > may be needed however, typically 600 ohms or thereabouts depending on
> > voltage.
>
> Inoperative, there's infinite resistance to ground; operative it has
> to go high to bus voltage so the lamp won't light. But it does
> measure one semiconductor junction's worth to ground on a diode check,
> so I think I know what's in there. A dummy resistor load will surely
> work, but wastes current. I think just an LED to the "L" terminal
> will work, but having not gambled in many years, I've lost the ability
> to spot a good 1 to 5 shot.
>
> Another thought is that they call these idiot lights on cars. Best I
> think is volt and amp meters, as the alt lamp may not identify all
> faults. Circuitry to add aural/visual alerts on overs and unders
> isn't too complicated, even w/o meters, if so capable or desirous to
> learn another hobby.
>
> Best,
> Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
> The "idiot" light tells you (when it is on) that the alternator output
> voltage is lower than the bus/battery voltage. And nothing else.
> When the light is out, the battery is not necessarily charging ( as output
> voltage may be below the c.13.4 volts required for charging).
> My preference is for a voltmeter; which will tell the state of charge of
> the battery before start-up and whether charging is taking place during
> engine run. The amount by which charging is taking place (as indicated by
> an ammeter), I find a little academic.
I don't think a volt meter can tell you anything about the battery.
1) A cell goes open circuit after starting the engine (it does happen) or
one of the leads falls off the battery. Your volt meter will show a >13V
reading, but the battery is getting zero charge (an ammeter would show this
fault).
2) Battery not holding a charge. You arrive at the airfield and find you
can't turn your engine, so you jump it from your car. When running, it may
appear to be charging and the voltage may be >13V, but it won't start the
engine again (even an ammeter won't be much use here).
3) A duff battery may show a reasonable voltage but may have too high an
internal resistance to let the current out (or in). It may even let the
avionics work, but not quite let the starter turn the engine. You will see
the avionics die when you try to crank the engine though.
I think I'd rather have an ammeter than a volt meter.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Cheers,
The discussion regarding LEDs has centred around utility. For
'shopping' after details and availablity, try "eLed.com" for fun, and for a
costing trip for parts for a dimming or brightening circuit, try
www.cpcares.com and browse for bits there.
The dimming circuit, courtesy Jim Weir allows one to aim narrow
beam red superbrightLEDs at the instrument panel (one per instrument, and
dim 'em as required. The Brightener circuit (same source) permits the
hysteresis of the human eyeball to be used to turn on the LED to brilliance
but only for a short sharp time, to stay within the current restraints (adds
about another 50% perceived brightness) - could be excellent way to increase
homebuilt position lights - or even a rudder 'vanity' light a la
airlines........
Ferg A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | nsions for Feltner stips on anti-servo tabs |
| From: | Erich D Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
Hi all,
Quick question. What are the dimensions of the feltner strips on the
anit-servo tab. I am building a classic and my manaul does not specify
this later mod? Thanks.
Erich Trombley
A028
Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
Hi, Nigel -
As I worded, that does sound like a goofy arrangement for the door
warning. I meant to convey my plan of using an aural warning for the
circuit. The necessity of reading throttle position is to douse the
noise when engine running and door ajar by intent. Given the problem
of what happens if the doors are not fully secured, I am afraid of the
day when a warning light verses angle of the sun just won't be noticed
except by looking for it, and I'm not that disciplined at times, esp
when tower clears me for an immediate, no delay sir.
Best,
Fred F.
Nigel Charles wrote:
> > > Further, seems you can take the ground from the shoot bolt circuit
> > > through a lever-type microswitch in the throttle housing, affixed to
> > > close at above runup throttle position. No door alert until plane
> > > thinks you're taking off; could even quick-nudge the throttle in runup
> > > to check the doors. But that could make you insufferable at a fly-in,
> > > showing off features like that.<
>
> Sounds horribly complicated. I used a pair of microswitches and one light
> per door - works fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimensions for Feltner stips on anti-servo tabs |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
1/8 x 1/2" model aircraft trailing edge strip fitted top and bottom works fine,
as do plastic paper binders which are about the same size. About a 1/4" at the
trailing edge seems to be about the norm.
Tony
Quoting Erich D Trombley :
> Hi all,
>
> Quick question. What are the dimensions of the feltner strips on the
> anit-servo tab. I am building a classic and my manaul does not specify
> this later mod? Thanks.
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
> Las Vegas, NV
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimensions for Feltner stips on anti-servo |
The flettner strips should be at least 60cm (24") long but can be full length of
the tab.
The introduction of the Flettner strips may be found in the owners manual page
7-10 and Newsletter No. 16 page 11.
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> Erich D Trombley 03/23/02 12:52am >>>
Hi all,
Quick question. What are the dimensions of the feltner strips on the
anit-servo tab. I am building a classic and my manaul does not specify
this later mod? Thanks.
Erich Trombley
A028
Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________________
<014601c1d1f6$e7ecf270$6300a8c0@dumass>
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | meter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
>I don't think a volt meter can tell you anything about the battery
Mark - obviously opinions differ on this. Bob Nuckolls of the
AeroElectric Connection might take issue with you if you made the
above statement on the AeroElectric list where he spends a lot of
time. He has said it's nice to have both a voltmeter and an ammeter,
and in the book he seems to regard ammeters as more important.
However, installation is rather more problematic for ammeters than
for voltmeters - witness the number of pages devoted to possible
arrangements.
I believe that a voltmeter which gives good resolution can be useful
on its own, and I'd want one even if I already had an ammeter. I
speak from experience, as I used to have a nice suppressed-zero
voltmeter in my car which I felt gave me better information about the
state of the battery than the ammeter which was also fitted.
Naturally, neither of those was original equipment! When I changed
that car, I moved the voltmeter to the next one, but did not bother
with the ammeter. One of the supporting reasons for that decision was
the extra work involved in getting the appropriate heavy wire in and
out of the panel to connect to the ammeter (it had a local shunt).
When I eventually got rich enough to buy a brand-new car, I didn't
want to cut holes in it, so passed the voltmeter on to someone else,
a decision I've since regretted!
Incidentally, [rhetorical question] when did anyone last see an
ammeter in a car panel? Why aren't they needed anymore?
>1) A cell goes open circuit after starting the engine (it does happen) or
>one of the leads falls off the battery. Your volt meter will show a >13V
>reading, but the battery is getting zero charge (an ammeter would show this
>fault).
A cell going open-circuit is likely towards the end of the battery's
life. 'Lectric Bob commends treating batteries as consumables and
replacing them regularly whether you need to or not. Thus you never
reach the stage of the battery "unexpectdly" letting you down. You
can have a dual-battery setup where the "primary" one gets moved to
the "backup" position each year, and then gets kicked out the second
year. As I've not experienced it, I'm not sure, but I suspect that a
voltmeter would give some indication of this problem in
uncharacteristically high readings, although it might be more subtle
than an ammeter reading.
Can't remember a battery lead ever falling off - if it was that loose
it probably wouldn't have started the engine anyway! Depending on
whether the voltmeter lead stayed attached to the battery or to the
loose cable, you'd see unusal voltage readings too - below charging
voltage if on the battery, and unusually high if on the loose cable.
>2) Battery not holding a charge.
Same as above - that battery should have been pensioned off already.
'Lectric Bob suggests a simple capacity test that you can carry out
at intervals if you want to avoid throwing out a battery that still
has some good life left.
>3) A duff battery may show a reasonable voltage but may have too high an
>internal resistance to let the current out
Regularly keeping an eye on the voltmeter during engine cranking will
tell you something about the battery's internal resistance, and you
can observe trends long before things get to the show-stopping stage.
I guess someone's sure to ask, so Bob's website is at:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> and you can find out about subscribing
to the AeroElectric list at
<http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric-list>.
As I said, my opinons above are based on personal experience - your
mileage may differ.
regards
Rowland
| PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
| Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Collin Noakes |
Hi folks,
is there anyone with Collin Noakes( europa painter) tel. number?
regards Karim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RoddyEuropa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ncial Times article |
There is a 'feature' article on the Europa today in 'The Business' (the
magazine in the Saturday Financial Times). It is based on the writers visit
to the factory and runs over several pages.
Roddy Kesterton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pitch Push-Rod Movement |
Hi All,
My sticks move fore-aft 280 mm
and main pitch push-rod movement
is about 30 mm. Is that OK?
In Manual they say tailplane TE should
move 14 degrees up and 6 degrees down.
I could not find equivalent main pitch-push rod movement.
Also, I have only bolted my CS09. Should they
also be bonded /floxed or flox beded?
Cheers, Raimo #417
Raimo M W Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
37500 Lempaala, FINLAND
tel +358 3 3753 777
fax +358 3 3753 100
gsm +358 40 590 1450
www.rwm-systems.fi
raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John & Amy Eckel <eckel1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimensions for Feltner stips on anti-servo tabs |
Hi Eric,
My XS manual says to fill the trailing edge trough with micro, let it cure
and sand
with the line of the skin.
Make the Flettner strips from pieces of light weight material such as balsa.
The should span the entire length but you can taper the ends so they don't
end abruptly.
Bond them to the upper and lower surface with epoxy and paint them with
epoxy to seal them if they are wood.
The strips are 12mm max width and the total thickness ( both strips and the
TE)
is 8-10 mm
John, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erich D Trombley" <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com>
Subject: Dimensions for Feltner stips on anti-servo tabs
> Hi all,
>
> Quick question. What are the dimensions of the feltner strips on the
> anit-servo tab. I am building a classic and my manaul does not specify
> this later mod? Thanks.
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
> Las Vegas, NV
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main Pitch Push-Rod Movement |
Raimo and All
Yes, you have a bit more travel in your stick that I do. I have the mass
stop in the back direction and that may shorten up the movement a little.
When you get it all set up with the tailplanes you will probably have to
adjust things a bit.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
<4.1.20020315211735.009cc370(at)pop.ozemail.com.au>
Rowland and others interested in Mal Mc Lures plane,
Here is what I have in the first 4 hours of VH-KIT. This is a classic
monowheel, fitted with a 914, an inflight adjustable Warp drive prop, and the
speed kit.
Test flying was performed on a less than desirable 36-38 degree day at sea
level, and the program conducted at 4000' with an OAT of 30 degrees.
100% power / 5400 RPM / 34"MP / 22-23 LPH / 140 kts CAS / GPS 156-160 kts
/ " 136 "
/ " 120 "
With a prevailing tailwind, a big one, the GPS at VNE read 210
knots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Has anyone indicated faster??)
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>
>>I am writing to tell those interested of the first flight of Mal and Kathy
>>Mc Lures a/c.
>
>Tony - great to hear of another first flight. That would be kit 269,
>VH-KIT which I understand is a classic monowheel. Have you any hard
>numbers? I'm after date of first flight, aircraft empty weight, who
>was the pilot, which airfield was it at, anything like that! I'm
>guessing that Mal & Kathy are not on e-mail or they might have been
>reporting the good news themselves. Don't break a leg, but anything
>you can feed back is good.
>
>regards
>
>Rowland
>
>
>| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
>| Europa 435 G-ROWI PFA #16532 EAA #168386
>| e-mail website
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Builder No.236
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Anderson" <Randerson(at)skewstacks.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions from a wannabee.. |
ilja,
G-BXTD is kept in my garage at home, where it is easy to clean/maintain
and is secure (burglar alarm on garage). I rig it every time I fly it (not
always from the same airfield). According to my log book I must have rigged
it at least 72 times in the last two years. It takes me about half an hour
to leisurely either rig or de-rig single handed, and get it ready to
fly/trail. One of my reasons for buying the Europa kit was the de-rig
facility. I use it all the time and I am very pleased that I went for the
Europa. I made the decision some seven and a half years ago and not once I
have I regretted the choice.
Roger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin(at)btopenworld.com> |
I think I'd rather have a good battery!!
regards,
MP
----- Original Message -----
From: <europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: LEDs
>
>
> > The "idiot" light tells you (when it is on) that the alternator output
> > voltage is lower than the bus/battery voltage. And nothing else.
> > When the light is out, the battery is not necessarily charging ( as
output
> > voltage may be below the c.13.4 volts required for charging).
> > My preference is for a voltmeter; which will tell the state of charge
of
> > the battery before start-up and whether charging is taking place during
> > engine run. The amount by which charging is taking place (as indicated
by
> > an ammeter), I find a little academic.
>
> I don't think a volt meter can tell you anything about the battery.
>
> 1) A cell goes open circuit after starting the engine (it does happen) or
> one of the leads falls off the battery. Your volt meter will show a >13V
> reading, but the battery is getting zero charge (an ammeter would show
this
> fault).
>
> 2) Battery not holding a charge. You arrive at the airfield and find you
> can't turn your engine, so you jump it from your car. When running, it
may
> appear to be charging and the voltage may be >13V, but it won't start the
> engine again (even an ammeter won't be much use here).
>
> 3) A duff battery may show a reasonable voltage but may have too high an
> internal resistance to let the current out (or in). It may even let the
> avionics work, but not quite let the starter turn the engine. You will
see
> the avionics die when you try to crank the engine though.
>
> I think I'd rather have an ammeter than a volt meter.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark.
>
> ________________________________
> Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
> europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
> http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
>
> >I don't think a volt meter can tell you anything about the battery
>
> Mark - obviously opinions differ on this. Bob Nuckolls of the
> AeroElectric Connection might take issue with you if you made the
> above statement on the AeroElectric list where he spends a lot of
> time. He has said it's nice to have both a voltmeter and an ammeter,
> and in the book he seems to regard ammeters as more important.
> However, installation is rather more problematic for ammeters than
> for voltmeters - witness the number of pages devoted to possible
> arrangements.
The instalation is a bit more of a problem, but I think the reading is a
more reliable indication of the charge going into the battery. Installation
could be simplified by using an adjustable low voltage meter between the
battery terminal and the alternator (i.e. using the cable as a shunt).
> I believe that a voltmeter which gives good resolution can be useful
> on its own, and I'd want one even if I already had an ammeter.
It can be useful, and if monitored with the reading from an ammeter you can
tell when the battery is fully charged (volts have gone up but current has
gone down). But you can't determine the state and/or charge of the battery
just from the voltmeter.
> I speak from experience, as I used to have a nice suppressed-zero
> voltmeter in my car which I felt gave me better information about the
> state of the battery than the ammeter which was also fitted.
> Naturally, neither of those was original equipment! When I changed
> that car, I moved the voltmeter to the next one, but did not bother
> with the ammeter. One of the supporting reasons for that decision was
> the extra work involved in getting the appropriate heavy wire in and
> out of the panel to connect to the ammeter (it had a local shunt).
> When I eventually got rich enough to buy a brand-new car, I didn't
> want to cut holes in it, so passed the voltmeter on to someone else,
> a decision I've since regretted!
>
> Incidentally, [rhetorical question] when did anyone last see an
> ammeter in a car panel? Why aren't they needed anymore?
Or a voltmeter. I haven't seen either on any of the vehicles I've had in
the last 10 years. After various alternator problems on one of my Transits,
I was going to fit an ammeter. I never got round to it though...
> >1) A cell goes open circuit after starting the engine (it does happen) or
> >one of the leads falls off the battery. Your volt meter will show a >13V
> >reading, but the battery is getting zero charge (an ammeter would show
this
> >fault).
>
> A cell going open-circuit is likely towards the end of the battery's
> life.
Yes, but... it could happen when the batter is only a few weeks old. There
may be a 'dry' joint between cells (or some other internal defect) which
could break due to vibration.
> 'Lectric Bob commends treating batteries as consumables and
> replacing them regularly whether you need to or not. Thus you never
> reach the stage of the battery "unexpectdly" letting you down. You
> can have a dual-battery setup where the "primary" one gets moved to
> the "backup" position each year, and then gets kicked out the second
> year.
A very reasonable suggestion, but talking from experiance of batteries on
the various bikes I've had, they last anything from just over 1 year to
about 3 years and they don't give any warning when they're about to go. I
can jump on the bike, hit the start button, ride for an hour but not be able
to start again at the other end (I wish they'd bring back kick start... not
much in a Europa at 5000 ft though).
> As I've not experienced it, I'm not sure, but I suspect that a
> voltmeter would give some indication of this problem in
> uncharacteristically high readings, although it might be more subtle
> than an ammeter reading.
The max. reading will be limited by the regulator on the alternator and I'd
expect the voltage to be low to start with (i.e. after starting the engine)
and go up as the battery charges. But the rate of charge will depend on
lots of things including the weather (temp. of the battery/how much charge
was used to start the engin (more in colder weather)), engine speed,
avionics/lights load. I wouldn't expect to see a higher voltage if a lead
came free than I would if the battery was fully charged. Regularly
monitoring the voltmeter as the battery charges will show a quick jump on
the voltmeter if the battery has a mechanical failure, but the jump may not
be big enough to notice as the battery becomes fully charged.
> Can't remember a battery lead ever falling off - if it was that loose
> it probably wouldn't have started the engine anyway!
It doesn't need to be loose, it may be a work hardened tab on the end of the
wire. Fine to start the engine, but a few minutes of vibration may push it
just a little bit too far. If this happened, there would probably be other
signes though, like additional noise on the audio systems.
> Depending on
> whether the voltmeter lead stayed attached to the battery or to the
> loose cable, you'd see unusal voltage readings too - below charging
> voltage if on the battery, and unusually high if on the loose cable.
I don't think it would be unusually high. The regulator will limit it to
the max. voltage that's used to charge the battery, which will be about the
same as you'd see when the batter is fully charged.
> >2) Battery not holding a charge.
>
> Same as above - that battery should have been pensioned off already.
> 'Lectric Bob suggests a simple capacity test that you can carry out
> at intervals if you want to avoid throwing out a battery that still
> has some good life left.
Sure. Probably best to test in the winter when the battery has less ability
to hold/release it's charge.
> >3) A duff battery may show a reasonable voltage but may have too high an
> >internal resistance to let the current out
>
> Regularly keeping an eye on the voltmeter during engine cranking will
> tell you something about the battery's internal resistance, and you
> can observe trends long before things get to the show-stopping stage.
The voltmeter reading will change on cranking depending on various factors
like engine temp, battery temp. If the cranking voltage is a bit lower than
normal, it could be just because the engine is a bit tighter (due to being
colder) than you were expecting (e.g. -5C over night and +10 when you try to
crank, but it takes a long time for the engine to warm up to the air temp.).
> I guess someone's sure to ask, so Bob's website is at:
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> and you can find out about subscribing
> to the AeroElectric list at
> <http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric-list>.
I wouldn't argue with Bob as I'm sure he's been in this game longer than me,
but I do think just a voltmeter can give very misleading readings.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ruth Stoveken" <missy7(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi gents, I am new here. I have a classic Europa with about 160hrs. It has always
had some vibration so After talking with Jim Thursby I flew it with the spinner
removed. It is then the smoothest plane I have ever been in. I think my problem
was and is that the spinner wobbled because it is not exactly straight.
My problem, how the heck does one get it on straight?. I have tried many times
to no avail. Jim Stoveken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
Rowland Carson wrote --
> I believe that a voltmeter which gives good resolution can be useful
> on its own, and I'd want one even if I already had an ammeter.
Resolution and accuracy. The needle versions will be approximate,
even if accurate. Especially on recombinant gas batteries, small
changes in voltage produces large changes in charging current. Equals
temperature. The RG battery people specify various voltages in
50-100mV.
LCD digital panel meters, some quite small and with decorative bezels,
are on the surplus market for as little as $10. Just add two
resistors, maybe a Zener diode, and read, with 1% accuracy, down to 10
mV. For ammeter use, a few more circuit issues besides the shunt.
> 'Lectric Bob suggests a simple capacity test that you can carry out
> at intervals if you want to avoid throwing out a battery that still
> has some good life left.
His is a clever design and is better than nothing if you can't read
specific gravity. But the current is way less than the 50-100A
consumer-type testers, and they're about $40. Repair shops use (up
to) 1,000A cranking capacity testers, as recommended by battery
mfr's. They have huge carbon-pile resistors, cost about $1,000 for
the simple models. Long ago when I worked in auto repair, we had a
modest current tester, but often it would suggest only a battery
charge was required. One week later a jump start, and a pissed off
customer.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kbcarpenter(at)comcast.net |
<014601c1d1f6$e7ecf270$6300a8c0@dumass>
<3C9D47F2.ECF43887(at)ameritech.net>
I finally got the inserting of the wings worked out. What helped a lot was
replacing the flap pins with ones that are one inch longer and tapered down
to 1/4 inch. Had a machinist friend turn.them. Now the pin slides into the
swivel bearing before the other pins start to engage and if I wiggle the
wing around, the flap pin is not coming out. Also found the spar cups too
tight. The plane seemed about ready to fly.
Now the bad news. Yesterday, I was taxing the plane about 15 MPH; the left
outrigger folded up, the wing started to drop to the ground, there was a
loud bang and the gear collapsed. The Retract lever had ripped out the side
of the guide plate even with the lock in place. The event damaged one and
maybe two prop blades. The retract lever is badly bent and the guide plate
broken. Guess I am lucky it was not worse. It is a grass field and did not
scratch up the plane. I have inspected the gear arms and the over-center
adjustment. I plan to talk with tech support. It appears to me that the
flap arm pushes the retract mechanism enough to bring it over-center and
encourages it to retract. Only the locked retract level holds it back.
Once it gets over-center, the retract lever cannot keep the gear from coming
up when on the ground. Have others had this problem? I hear about people
landing on grass fields and bouncing without ill effect. My bounce was
minor and at a slow speed. I have no idea why the outrigger collapsed. I
think that started the chain of events. There seemed to be a second between
the outrigger collapse and the gear collapse, as observed by others and
myself. The over- center adjustment would seem to be incorrect but it
appears to be a fine delicate adjustment as well. Any comments?
Ken Carpenter
A123
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs]
> Rowland Carson wrote --
>
> > I believe that a voltmeter which gives good resolution can be useful
> > on its own, and I'd want one even if I already had an ammeter.
>
> Resolution and accuracy. The needle versions will be approximate,
> even if accurate. Especially on recombinant gas batteries, small
> changes in voltage produces large changes in charging current. Equals
> temperature. The RG battery people specify various voltages in
> 50-100mV.
>
> LCD digital panel meters, some quite small and with decorative bezels,
> are on the surplus market for as little as $10. Just add two
> resistors, maybe a Zener diode, and read, with 1% accuracy, down to 10
> mV. For ammeter use, a few more circuit issues besides the shunt.
>
> > 'Lectric Bob suggests a simple capacity test that you can carry out
> > at intervals if you want to avoid throwing out a battery that still
> > has some good life left.
>
> His is a clever design and is better than nothing if you can't read
> specific gravity. But the current is way less than the 50-100A
> consumer-type testers, and they're about $40. Repair shops use (up
> to) 1,000A cranking capacity testers, as recommended by battery
> mfr's. They have huge carbon-pile resistors, cost about $1,000 for
> the simple models. Long ago when I worked in auto repair, we had a
> modest current tester, but often it would suggest only a battery
> charge was required. One week later a jump start, and a pissed off
> customer.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
That was my discovery when I tried it a few years back, Jim.
There are a number of known solutions to this problem.
At the moment, and for the last couple of years, it is fine
(insignificant vibration at most RPM), due to appropriately placed penny
washers, at the three potential attachment points near the base of the
prop blades.
Many have used professional balancing. I used trial and error on several
flights.
However, an important preparation was to ensure the spinner cone itself
was within tolerable limits from the point of view of shape and weight
distribution. Some rubbing down was involved.
I'm sure much advice will be forthcoming on this.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: spinner
Hi gents, I am new here. I have a classic Europa with about 160hrs. It
has always had some vibration so After talking with Jim Thursby I flew
it with the spinner removed. It is then the smoothest plane I have ever
been in. I think my problem was and is that the spinner wobbled because
it is not exactly straight. My problem, how the heck does one get it on
straight?. I have tried many times to no avail. Jim Stoveken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
Hear hear!
The voltmeter requires the user to be a little bit more knowledgeable to be
able to get the best from it.
It will tell the state of charge of the battery (i.e. in percentage terms
prior to start-up) and a failed or shorted cell will be immediately
apparent.
It tells whether the battery is being charged, overcharged or not charged
at all.
It won't tell accurately the remaining storage capacity of a battery,
which is normally done at annual-time by means of draining down through a
fixed load. In this instance an integrating ammeter can be useful if (and
it is unlikely to be) the degraded storage capacity is actually known. But
integrating ammeters come expensive (>?200).
The voltmeter will however show battery voltage drop against a heavy load
(i.e. cold cranking), which gives a reasonable indication of increasing
internal resistance (and hence battery life/capacity) everytime the
aircraft is used.
The voltmeter doesn't affect the compass either!
Ammeters disappeared on cars along with the dynamo. Probably because the
increased reliability and output capacity of alternators made their use
superfluous.
Duncan McFadyean
On Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:41 PM, Rowland & Wilma Carson
[SMTP:rowil(at)clara.net] wrote:
>
> >I don't think a volt meter can tell you anything about the battery
>
> Mark - obviously opinions differ on this. Bob Nuckolls of the
> AeroElectric Connection might take issue with you if you made the
> above statement on the AeroElectric list where he spends a lot of
> time. He has said it's nice to have both a voltmeter and an ammeter,
> and in the book he seems to regard ammeters as more important.
> However, installation is rather more problematic for ammeters than
> for voltmeters - witness the number of pages devoted to possible
> arrangements.
>
> I believe that a voltmeter which gives good resolution can be useful
> on its own, and I'd want one even if I already had an ammeter. I
> speak from experience, as I used to have a nice suppressed-zero
> voltmeter in my car which I felt gave me better information about the
> state of the battery than the ammeter which was also fitted.
> Naturally, neither of those was original equipment! When I changed
> that car, I moved the voltmeter to the next one, but did not bother
> with the ammeter. One of the supporting reasons for that decision was
> the extra work involved in getting the appropriate heavy wire in and
> out of the panel to connect to the ammeter (it had a local shunt).
> When I eventually got rich enough to buy a brand-new car, I didn't
> want to cut holes in it, so passed the voltmeter on to someone else,
> a decision I've since regretted!
>
> Incidentally, [rhetorical question] when did anyone last see an
> ammeter in a car panel? Why aren't they needed anymore?
>
> >1) A cell goes open circuit after starting the engine (it does happen)
or
> >one of the leads falls off the battery. Your volt meter will show a
>13V
> >reading, but the battery is getting zero charge (an ammeter would show
this
> >fault).
>
> A cell going open-circuit is likely towards the end of the battery's
> life. 'Lectric Bob commends treating batteries as consumables and
> replacing them regularly whether you need to or not. Thus you never
> reach the stage of the battery "unexpectdly" letting you down. You
> can have a dual-battery setup where the "primary" one gets moved to
> the "backup" position each year, and then gets kicked out the second
> year. As I've not experienced it, I'm not sure, but I suspect that a
> voltmeter would give some indication of this problem in
> uncharacteristically high readings, although it might be more subtle
> than an ammeter reading.
>
> Can't remember a battery lead ever falling off - if it was that loose
> it probably wouldn't have started the engine anyway! Depending on
> whether the voltmeter lead stayed attached to the battery or to the
> loose cable, you'd see unusal voltage readings too - below charging
> voltage if on the battery, and unusually high if on the loose cable.
>
> >2) Battery not holding a charge.
>
> Same as above - that battery should have been pensioned off already.
> 'Lectric Bob suggests a simple capacity test that you can carry out
> at intervals if you want to avoid throwing out a battery that still
> has some good life left.
>
> >3) A duff battery may show a reasonable voltage but may have too high an
> >internal resistance to let the current out
>
> Regularly keeping an eye on the voltmeter during engine cranking will
> tell you something about the battery's internal resistance, and you
> can observe trends long before things get to the show-stopping stage.
>
> I guess someone's sure to ask, so Bob's website is at:
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> and you can find out about subscribing
> to the AeroElectric list at
> <http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric-list>.
>
> As I said, my opinons above are based on personal experience - your
> mileage may differ.
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
>
>
> | PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623
> | Europa builder #435 G-ROWI e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Good news and bad |
I have no idea why the outrigger collapsed. I
> think that started the chain of events. There seemed to be a second
between
> the outrigger collapse and the gear collapse, as observed by others and
> myself. The over- center adjustment would seem to be incorrect but it
> appears to be a fine delicate adjustment as well. Any comments?
> Ken Carpenter
> A123
>
The load of one side of the aircraft on a collapsed outrigger would try to
pull up the flaps, hence a force that was also trying to raise the
undercarriage.
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
On Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:29 AM, europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
[SMTP:europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com] wrote:
>
But you can't determine the state and/or charge of the battery
> just from the voltmeter.
Not so. Battery terminal voltage (prior to the charging circuit being
activated) gives a direct indication of the state of charge of a battery
(provided the battery has stood for some time without significant
charge/discharge). State of charge and capacity are two unrelated aspects
of course, and capacity declines irreversibly with age.
>
> Or a voltmeter. I haven't seen either on any of the vehicles I've had in
> the last 10 years. >
Probably because most drivers didn't know how to use them!
> The max. reading will be limited by the regulator on the alternator and
I'd
> expect the voltage to be low to start with (i.e. after starting the
engine)
> and go up as the battery charges. But the rate of charge will depend on
> lots of things including the weather (temp. of the battery/how much
charge
> was used to start the engine (more in colder weather)), engine speed,
> avionics/lights load. I wouldn't expect to see a higher voltage if a
lead
> came free than I would if the battery was fully charged. Regularly
> monitoring the voltmeter as the battery charges will show a quick jump on
> the voltmeter if the battery has a mechanical failure, but the jump may
not
> be big enough to notice as the battery becomes fully charged.
Denied of the swamping and stabilising capacity of a battery, alternator
output voltage is likely to increase and/or become erratic. Without a
voltmeter, the first indication could be all the avionics frying! Rotax
tell us not to run the charging circuit with the battery disconnected.
Hope this isn't turning into another "tailplane pins" debate!
Duncan McFadyean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McFadyean <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Personally, I initially balanced the spinner on a mandrel. This requires
making a hole in the front deadcentre of the spinner; a bit difficult. But
for whatever reason there were no subsequent vibration problems.
Duncan mcFadyean
On Sunday, March 24, 2002 6:51 AM, Alan D Stewart
[SMTP:alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk] wrote:
>
> That was my discovery when I tried it a few years back, Jim.
>
> There are a number of known solutions to this problem.
>
> At the moment, and for the last couple of years, it is fine
> (insignificant vibration at most RPM), due to appropriately placed penny
> washers, at the three potential attachment points near the base of the
> prop blades.
>
> Many have used professional balancing. I used trial and error on several
> flights.
>
> However, an important preparation was to ensure the spinner cone itself
> was within tolerable limits from the point of view of shape and weight
> distribution. Some rubbing down was involved.
>
> I'm sure much advice will be forthcoming on this.
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
> Subject: spinner
>
>
> Hi gents, I am new here. I have a classic Europa with about 160hrs. It
> has always had some vibration so After talking with Jim Thursby I flew
> it with the spinner removed. It is then the smoothest plane I have ever
> been in. I think my problem was and is that the spinner wobbled because
> it is not exactly straight. My problem, how the heck does one get it on
> straight?. I have tried many times to no avail. Jim Stoveken
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
> On Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:29 AM, europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
> [SMTP:europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com] wrote:
> >
> But you can't determine the state and/or charge of the battery
> > just from the voltmeter.
>
> Not so. Battery terminal voltage (prior to the charging circuit being
> activated) gives a direct indication of the state of charge of a battery
> (provided the battery has stood for some time without significant
> charge/discharge). State of charge and capacity are two unrelated aspects
> of course, and capacity declines irreversibly with age.
Sorry, but I can't agree with that. If the battery has a high internal
resistance, it is still capable of giving a high voltage.
> > Or a voltmeter. I haven't seen either on any of the vehicles I've had
in
> > the last 10 years. >
>
> Probably because most drivers didn't know how to use them!
>
> > The max. reading will be limited by the regulator on the alternator and
> I'd
> > expect the voltage to be low to start with (i.e. after starting the
> engine)
> > and go up as the battery charges. But the rate of charge will depend on
> > lots of things including the weather (temp. of the battery/how much
> charge
> > was used to start the engine (more in colder weather)), engine speed,
> > avionics/lights load. I wouldn't expect to see a higher voltage if a
> lead
> > came free than I would if the battery was fully charged. Regularly
> > monitoring the voltmeter as the battery charges will show a quick jump
on
> > the voltmeter if the battery has a mechanical failure, but the jump may
> not
> > be big enough to notice as the battery becomes fully charged.
>
> Denied of the swamping and stabilising capacity of a battery, alternator
> output voltage is likely to increase and/or become erratic. Without a
> voltmeter, the first indication could be all the avionics frying! Rotax
> tell us not to run the charging circuit with the battery disconnected.
That being the case, Rotax should sort their regulator circuit out. The
whole idea of a regulator is to regulate. I presume by "swamping" you mean
load? With the battery removed, there will still be a load (ignition, fuel
pump, avaionics). If the regulator is working correctly I can't see that the
erratic voltage will be noticable except on a digital reading, then it may
only be 0.1V which you can expect anyway.
> Hope this isn't turning into another "tailplane pins" debate!
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Anderson" <Randerson(at)skewstacks.freeserve.co.uk> |
In G-BXTD I have used 'Panel Mounting 12V LEDs with plastic Bezels' as supplied
by Maplins - order code UF83E Red -price 99p and UF84F Green - price 1.25p.
Dimensions are 30.5 mm long, front face 8.5 mm diameter, mounting hole required
7 mm diameter. Forward current approx. 15mA at 12V. They are small, neat
but clearly visible in all light conditions. No resistors required.
I have a green one for the undercarriage lock warning light and for the fuel
pump warning light. I have a red one for the alternator warning light. This
shows only when the engine is off or at slow tick over. I also have a voltmeter.
I am happy with this level of instrumentation - it may fall a long way short
or airline standards but it is considerably more sophisticated than that in
the flexwing microlight, to which I also entrust my life, and it is cheap and
very light.
Roger A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
McFadyean wrote:
>
> Hear hear!
>
> The voltmeter requires the user to be a little bit more knowledgeable to be
> able to get the best from it.
>
> It will tell the state of charge of the battery (i.e. in percentage terms
> prior to start-up) and a failed or shorted cell will be immediately
> apparent.
> It tells whether the battery is being charged, overcharged or not charged
> at all.
>
> It won't tell accurately the remaining storage capacity of a batter
> which is normally done at annual-time by means of draining down through a
> fixed load.
Exactly...and not just 'more knowledgeable' but psychic. If you've
ever attempted to charge good and bad little batteries using a
regulated bench power supply, you won't be able to see how volts
relates to a good or bad battery, unless really bad. Higher volts
means more current either way. But in 10 minutes, the current drops
to zero. Turn voltage up for the next 10. Using a series power
resistor crudely fixes that, so it dissipates excess heat, not the
battery, resistor cooling down as battery comes up.
The regulator thus doesn't really send current to the battery; the
battery draws from it. When a regulator sees the volts drop to the
magic 13.75V, the bartender tells the battery it's had enough; go home
and sleep it off. A defective battery doesn't know it's defective, so
it's happy. Until the next time you hit the starter. This is also
why an external charge is often needed for a discharged, but
reasonably good battery.
The most significant voltage is that where a good battery is fully
charged. Especially RG's. A little bit high, and the battery's life
is being slowly shortened, not noticeable on the ammeter either. Thus
I agree also that these can and should be just periodic maintenance
matters.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan" <aopd37(at)dsl.pipex.com> |
Has any one located a UK version of the 'Shoe Goo' used in Bob Nuckolls of
the
AeroElectric Connection 'Little Connector' solution for the Mac Servo.
Ta
AlanB
#303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | GOO, was Mac Servo |
----- Original Message ----- from: "Alan" <>
> Has any one located a UK version of the 'Shoe Goo' used in Bob Nuckolls
of> the> AeroElectric Connection 'Little Connector' solution for the Mac
Servo.> Ta> AlanB> #303
Alan:
Marvellous goop. Can't help you there, but the package says:
"Made in USA by Eclectic Products INc, Pineville, LA 71361. For technical
assistance call 1-800-767-4667."
Maybe that'll help.
Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
McFadyean wrote:
>
> ...
> Denied of the swamping and stabilising capacity of a battery, alternator
> output voltage is likely to increase and/or become erratic. Without a
> voltmeter, the first indication could be all the avionics frying! Rotax
> tell us not to run the charging circuit with the battery disconnected.
To add to that, I think the avionics likely won't get fried but can be
zapped. The perm magnets and the low power of the Rotax alt should
keep steady state voltage well in check (unlike a field-coil type alt
that can go wild, capable of 70A when you need only 20). The Rotax
alt is probably badly "spikey," and maybe that's what that odd
25,000uf capacitor is there for, in case batt loses it's ability to
stomp on the spikeys.
Mr. Nuckolls does describe a "crowbar overvoltage protection" circuit,
saying you need a fast acting circuit for spikes, but saying its for
runaway voltage. But elsewhere he says, spikes, shmikes, don't
worry. Don't happen, and avionics are built to RTCA Doc standards for
transient immunity anyway.
Confused, so I have this 16v, 50-watt Zener diode to sit across the
buss. It can at least turn big spikes into little ones, acceptable as
long as I think it will doing anything. Some production A/C mfrs have
one, but in the service manual, they don't say how to test it, nor
what the symptoms are when it goes bad!
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
All,
I am fairly new to this group and am currently deciding on weather to buy in to
a Mono or Tri-gear. (second hand)
I'm not sure what to believe really, If you Speak to a mono wheel owner he will
tell you the hype was all blown out of proportion, speak to a tri-gear owner
and most seam to suggest there is a stage in the take off and landing where the
pilot doesn't have control!
I am sure this is a debate that has been had many times, I would be interested
in any articles stories etc that I could read to gain opinion.
I would like to understand the technique for the Mono and why people have got it
wrong in the past etc.
Don't get me wrong im not trying to learn to fly by reading. I will do the appropriate
conversion etc. I am purely interested in a cross section of views, in
order that if I do go for a mono I wont regret it later on.
Kind regards
Kevin
East Yorkshire, also looking for a PFA coach in this area if anyone has any suggestions
please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shoe GOO, was Mac Servo |
I've never had any problem with ordinary RTV, for what he's doing
there. Of course, Bob must know about RTV, used inside consumer
electronics everywhere, but he also seems to do things with diligent
aforethought.
Best,
Fred F.
> > Has any one located a UK version of the 'Shoe Goo' used in Bob Nuckolls
> of> the> AeroElectric Connection 'Little Connector' solution for the Mac
> Servo.> Ta> AlanB> #303
>
> Alan:
> Marvellous goop. Can't help you there, but the package says:
> "Made in USA by Eclectic Products INc, Pineville, LA 71361. For technical
> assistance call 1-800-767-4667."
> Maybe that'll help.
> Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Jones" <jronjones(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Collin Noakes |
Colin's works 'phone is 01902 607695.
Cheers,
Ron Jones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono Vs Tri-gear |
I've owned a mono for 5 years or so and flown into and out of variety of
different runways in all sorts of weathers. Perhaps, I have around 1200
Europa takeoffs and landings.
Specifically, (and obviously, with the modified tailwheel fitted), with
regard to monowheel operations, I don't really see what the fuss is
about.
Obviously, it would be very wise to familiarise yourself with the
specific technique required before normal operations, perhaps via a
short training course.
I would choose a mono over a tri-gear again. The extra cost, reduced
payload and slight performance loss would in my view be unwarranted.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Mono Vs Tri-gear
All,
I am fairly new to this group and am currently deciding on weather to
buy in to a Mono or Tri-gear. (second hand)
I'm not sure what to believe really, If you Speak to a mono wheel owner
he will tell you the hype was all blown out of proportion, speak to a
tri-gear owner and most seam to suggest there is a stage in the take off
and landing where the pilot doesn't have control!
I am sure this is a debate that has been had many times, I would be
interested in any articles stories etc that I could read to gain
opinion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VH-KIT Speeds etc. |
Tony
I chose the Mono because it gives me a better design in the event of an off
field landing emergency. I am a low time pilot, and do not see a problem,
with good training, to making landings with my Mono, when it is completed.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Mono Vs Tri-gear |
Hi! Kevin,Again!
Can't speak about the Mono-wheel with any authority, some would say "neither
a trike"!
However ...for what it's worth I seriously value my differential breaking
in a nasty cross wind on my trike, when the ship starts to weather-cock.
Especially with Eddsfield having only 27/09 to choose from. The prevailing
winds are certainly not expected to be true East or West so you must
measure the Rudder authority quantum.
Good to meet yesterday.
Best regards and thanks to all for the hospitality.
Bob Harrsion G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
Mark-
I was experiencing the same syndrome on my bike, which made me reluctant
to ride it very far! Pulling out the regulator/rectifier, I found that
one of the three diodes was shorted, producing almost enough current
to run the bike, but not enough to charge the battery. After an hour
or so of riding, the battery was discharged enough to not start again!
Replacing the reg/rect solved the problem! Bring back the kickstarts!
Pops
A036
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs]
I can jump on the bike, hit the start button, ride for an hour but not be
able
to start again at the other end (I wish they'd bring back kick start... not
much in a Europa at 5000 ft though).
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
> Mark-
>
> I was experiencing the same syndrome on my bike, which made me reluctant
> to ride it very far! Pulling out the regulator/rectifier, I found that
> one of the three diodes was shorted, producing almost enough current
> to run the bike, but not enough to charge the battery. After an hour
> or so of riding, the battery was discharged enough to not start again!
> Replacing the reg/rect solved the problem! Bring back the kickstarts!
>
> Pops
> A036
Yeah, I've had that before as well, but only once.
BTW, I'm not sure what type of bike(s) you're used to, but have you seen the
regulator circuit on a Harley? Disgusting... it puts an SCR accross the
output and starts to short things out when it get's a bit too high (that's
what it looked like to me anyway, but there's a lot of silicon in there and
I might have scribbled the circuit down wrong). Just think of the power
lost due to back EMF!
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Gladstone <Ted_Gladstone(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
Message text written by : Fred Fillinger
>>
- - - - - - I meant to convey my plan of using an aural warning for the
circuit. The necessity of reading throttle position is to douse the
noise when engine running and door ajar by intent. - - - - - -
>>
Our warning cct uses a micro switch on each shoot bolt with the front
activating slightly before the rear. When the front micro sw is activated
it switches ON the audio tone and when the rear micro sw is activated it
switches OFF the tone. Thus confirmation is given, every time the door is
closed, that the cct is working and if the tone does not switch OFF the
rear bolt has not engaged properly. No tone is heard when the door is
open or ajar by intent or when closed properly.
The cct is on our web site:- www.systemwise.co.uk/europa -
- there is also a Red & Green LED door warning cct if preferred
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | meter AND ammeter in one unit |
Everyone....
If you cannot make up your minds as to whether to have an ammeter or
voltmeter, then get both. We have found a single display (small
engine instument size, but cannot remember dimentions) that has on
one side a voltmeter and on the other, an ammeter that shows charge
and discharge up to 30 amps each way. You obviously have to make a
shunt ( or buy one) but it does give you the best of both worlds. I
cannot remember the details off the top of my head, but if anyone is
interested, I will dig them out for you.
Eddie
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Davey <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs] |
Apologies if this is a bit off-topic - but this all reminds me of a
one-time boss of mine. In a previous life he was a sales rep for Bond
minicars in Preston - the three-wheelers that used a motorbike engine.
He had got hold of one years later and restored it - and whenever the
battery was flat he just stuck his leg under the bonnet and used the
kick-start that Bond's had left on. He could do that at 6ft plus.
It all looked very Basil Fawlty...
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS monowheel 537M
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs]
Mark-
I was experiencing the same syndrome on my bike, which made me reluctant
to ride it very far! Pulling out the regulator/rectifier, I found that
one of the three diodes was shorted, producing almost enough current
to run the bike, but not enough to charge the battery. After an hour
or so of riding, the battery was discharged enough to not start again!
Replacing the reg/rect solved the problem! Bring back the kickstarts!
Pops
A036
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: voltmeter vs ammeter [was: LEDs]
I can jump on the bike, hit the start button, ride for an hour but not
be
able
to start again at the other end (I wish they'd bring back kick start...
not
much in a Europa at 5000 ft though).
________________________________
Mark Jackson - +44 (0)7050 645590
europa-builder(at)ntlworld.com
http://harley.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~mark/Europa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
Been reading lots recently about ground proximity detectors, landing
gear down indicators and electronic door 'shoot bolt' warning equipment
etc etc.
I too am facinated by electronics but personally don't think these
things are generally justified in an aircraft like the Europa.
John Tye's original aircraft had none these, and a very straightforward
panel. Consequently there was very little to go wrong. It was lighter,
cheaper and very probably slightly faster.
Some of my standard checks when flying are:
Visually check gear is fully down and located, visually check door shoot
bolts located front and back, visually check location and distance to
ground !
In the UK we aren't supposed to fly at night or in IFR conditions in
this aircraft. Perhaps in other countries the rules are slightly
different ?
A very strong case could be made for keeping equipment on board as
simple as possible.
I apologise if this sounds provocative and certainly don't want to start
a long thread on this or a 'flame'.
... just expressing an alternate point of view which I suspect is shared
by many !
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
| From: | Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
> I too am facinated by electronics but personally don't think these
> things are generally justified in an aircraft like the Europa.
On the other hand there are many who are using their Europa's as an exercise in
designing instrumentation systems. My own instrumentation system for example
has a number of automated monitoring systems designed to minimise the amount of
time that a VFR pilot spends looking at instrumentation.
Very few VFR pilots, myself included, spend enough time monitoring their
systems. A computer on the doesn't forget to scan the engine instruments and
doesn't get distracted with watching the view so why not have it do the work
for you and let you know if something untoward is happening.
The same goes for door monitors. They don't replace the visual check but one
day may just save the loss of a door when the pilot forgets that necessary
action.
In effect a good automated monitoring system is equivalent to having a someone
in the right hand seat double checking your actions which for many of us is a
pretty good idea.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aligning Vertical Tail |
The following was sent to the wrong adress. Here it goes again.
----- Original Message -----
| From: | Hans J=F8rgen Danielsen |
Subject: Aligning Vertical Tail
Hi all.
As many of you have experienced aligning things can be timeconsuming and frustrating!
I have problems in adjusting the fin to a perfect vertical position, after
fitting top module. The mould is clecoed in placed (with screws actually),
but when fastening a plumb-bob string to the inside top center of the fin leading
edge, the weight indicates quite a few mm to the right of center line in
the lower mould.
I think I know why. There is a built-in twist in the lower moulding which went
unnoticed when installing the Stabilizer torque tube and aft bulkhead. The manual
didn't warn about this possibility. So to recapitulate: The torque tube was
installed as per manual with horizontal alignment with the forward part of the
mould (straight edge between bolts in wing pin holes). In other words the hole
for the left bronze bushing had to be widened slightly to obtain correct alignment
before fastening the bushings - thus building in the twist.
The question is: What do I do? By grabbing the top of the fin and forceing it to
the left and cleco it in this position I'm still left with the weight pointing
5-6 mm to the right of the centerline. I'm able to force it a bit further to
the side, but am reluctant to do so as not to introduce unacceptable stress
to the top moulding. Are there any others out there who have experienced such
annoying misalignment (who did not check twist and corrected it before going ahead
with torque tube installation)? Would a slightly tilted fin be noticed at
all - or affect flying to any degree??
Hans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
Hi all
Are there any other Jabiru 3300 Europa builders out there who could
give me the dimensions of their engine mounting frame (apart from Bob
who made his own), only It would appear that our cowling is 3 to 4
inches too short, or the mount is too long. I suspect that it is a
mount for a 2200 not 3300, but I need to confirm this with
measurements.
Cheers
Ed
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerry Holland" <gnh(at)ddsc.demon.co.uk> |
Nigel Hi!
Can you send e-mail Address of Guy modifying Trigear Cockpit Module.
Regards
Gerry
ps. Are you at Kemble this week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Aligning Vertical Tail |
The prime consideration is to make sure the torque tube has no (extra)
friction when you pull things straight - a canted over fin (or stab, for
that matter) won't be noticeable when flying.... only on the ground, if
you're unlucky.
For those not that far, I've always recommended making a proper jig that
holds the front and back of the tub properly. I keep reading about all sorts
of problems here, and know I didn't get them because I did...
(smugly)
Miles
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Jrgen Danielsen
> Hi all.
>
> As many of you have experienced aligning things can be timeconsuming and
frustrating! I have problems in adjusting the fin to a perfect vertical
position, after fitting top module. The mould is clecoed in placed (with
screws actually), but when fastening a plumb-bob string to the inside top
center of the fin leading edge, the weight indicates quite a few mm to the
right of center line in the lower mould.
>
> I think I know why. There is a built-in twist in the lower moulding which
went unnoticed when installing the Stabilizer torque tube and aft bulkhead.
The manual didn't warn about this possibility. So to recapitulate: The
torque tube was installed as per manual with horizontal alignment with the
forward part of the mould (straight edge between bolts in wing pin holes).
In other words the hole for the left bronze bushing had to be widened
slightly to obtain correct alignment before fastening the bushings - thus
building in the twist.
>
> The question is: What do I do? By grabbing the top of the fin and forceing
it to the left and cleco it in this position I'm still left with the weight
pointing 5-6 mm to the right of the centerline. I'm able to force it a bit
further to the side, but am reluctant to do so as not to introduce
unacceptable stress to the top moulding. Are there any others out there who
have experienced such annoying misalignment (who did not check twist and
corrected it before going ahead with torque tube installation)? Would a
slightly tilted fin be noticed at all - or affect flying to any degree??
>
> Hans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! Gerry.
The G-OGAN syndicate at Wickenby modified their cockpit module from the MK I
wide tunnel version
to a pleasing chopped down centre console arrangement for their trike
configuration.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Contact
Nigel Hi!
Can you send e-mail Address of Guy modifying Trigear Cockpit Module.
Regards
Gerry
ps. Are you at Kemble this week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eamonn Sheridan <ESheridan(at)telepub.co.uk> |
If anyone knows of a Europa Tri Gear or Tail Dragger with Rotex 912S or 914
for sale in the UK, Mr David Black would be very interested to discuss it
further. He can be contacted on 07831 381933.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
Door warning or not isn't too big a deal, but I think other things
are. Take one example of oil quantity level or pressure. FAA rules
here for simple A/C say no warning on either required. Yet every
year, a number of people crash when a leak is sprung in flight,
following operator "alert" called engine seizure. Data does not
include such failures resulting in only no-damage, off-airport
landings.
However, for spin characteristics, FAA rules now are so strict that
the Lancair Columbia has a Rube Goldberg arrangement of plunger servos
at the rudder that make it spin-proof depending upon system inputs.
This is because people stall-spin to the ground, but often the
contributing cause is inattention following a system failure.
Airliners, now, must demonstrate that failure probability of critical
systems be 1,000,000,000/1, forcing designers to go redundancy. But
essentially voluntarily, designers provide the crew with Master
Warning Systems with 3 levels of alert.
The irony is that FAA protects us from the consequences of system
failures by assuming we can never learn to fly above stall in the
event of a failure that could have been pre-warned. They also must
assume that airline crews dutifully stare at gauges for several hours.
So here we are, periodically monitoring systems, thinking we're
emulating professional cockpit crews. Who are actually enjoying the
flight, kibitzing about company policy, sports, and flight attendants.
Make sense?
[re the post about Basil Fawlty, might that be like Mr. Bean too?]
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
> So here we are, periodically monitoring systems, thinking we're
> emulating professional cockpit crews. Who are actually enjoying the>
flight, kibitzing about company policy, sports, and flight attendants.
Now, Fred,
I always spoke well of you!
Here we speak of 'professional' as those who profess publicly.
We don't have Professional Hockey players, they're commercial - although the
TV channels are managing to convert children to alien habits.
Actually, my first instructor required us to do a cockpit check
every 10 minutes (except when he thought I was going to kill him) and I
tried to do that all through fighters, but 35 years of transport would be
96,000 checks enroute - to say nothing of the size of the panel on an
L-1011...........
So what about that cutie in Cabin 3?
ferg
>
> Make sense?
>
> [re the post about Basil Fawlty, might that be like Mr. Bean too?]
>
> Best,
> Fred F.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mono Vs Tri-gear |
Hello Kevin,
Take off and landing in the mono-wheel requires a specific technique to be learnt,
much as when learning taildragger techniques.
The early tailwheel design did not enable any appreciable amount of rudder to be
used until the tailwheel was off the ground, resulting in a transition from
relatively high foot loads suddenly to light foot loads. This took some getting
used to and caught out a number of pilots with little or no tailwheel experience.
The modification to the tailwheel follows the more conventional design practice
of driving the tailwheel steering via springs, something considered not an option
at the beginning with the thinking that without differential brakes the pilot
would need the maximum amount of tailwheel movement available at all times.
This mod allows up to full rudder deflection whilst the tailwheel tracks straight,
resulting in an almost undetectable change in foot loads during cross-wind
operations.
Extending the tailwheel aft also made steering easier, by making it less sensitive.
The reduction of deck angle also helped by reducing the precession effect
of the propeller during pitching such as when lifting the tail just prior to
lift off. A lot of pilots have developed a take-off technique where the tailwheel
is kept on the ground right up to the point of leaving the ground, which
eliminates the latter problem.
The mono-wheel Europa does require proper training followed by attention during
take off and landing similar to other tail-draggers, but the comment that there
is a stage at which the pilot has no control is pure nonsense, as I'm sure
you would suspect.
If it's of interest when you have decided whether or not to take the Europa plunge,
I'm a PFA coach and live in North East Yorkshire.
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> "Kevin Taylor" 03/24/02 05:03pm >>>
All,
I am fairly new to this group and am currently deciding on weather to buy in to
a Mono or Tri-gear. (second hand)
I'm not sure what to believe really, If you Speak to a mono wheel owner he will
tell you the hype was all blown out of proportion, speak to a tri-gear owner
and most seam to suggest there is a stage in the take off and landing where the
pilot doesn't have control!
I am sure this is a debate that has been had many times, I would be interested
in any articles stories etc that I could read to gain opinion.
I would like to understand the technique for the Mono and why people have got it
wrong in the past etc.
Don't get me wrong im not trying to learn to fly by reading. I will do the appropriate
conversion etc. I am purely interested in a cross section of views, in
order that if I do go for a mono I wont regret it later on.
Kind regards
Kevin
East Yorkshire, also looking for a PFA coach in this area if anyone has any suggestions
please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom & Cathy Friedland <tfriedland(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru engine mount |
Hi Ed
The mounting frame that I received with my Europa/J3300 fwf kit is 8 5/8
inches from the front of the Europa frame to the aft side of the motor
mount on the Engine.
Tom
bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Are there any other Jabiru 3300 Europa builders out there who could
> give me the dimensions of their engine mounting frame (apart from Bob
> who made his own), only It would appear that our cowling is 3 to 4
> inches too short, or the mount is too long. I suspect that it is a
> mount for a 2200 not 3300, but I need to confirm this with
> measurements.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ed
>
> /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Rickard" <ian.iicons(at)ntlworld.com> |
I am probably the guy! I have just finished modifying my Trigear centre
tunnel (after PFA approval) and it is now signed off ready to go in.
I have Autocad drawings of the layout, pictures etc and can talk you through
the proceddure with PFA. Nigel and I are talking about a Club mod version.
Give me a ring if you want to talk about it.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI
e-mail ian.iicons(at)ntlworld.com Tel 01483 714096
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Contact
Nigel Hi!
Can you send e-mail Address of Guy modifying Trigear Cockpit Module.
Regards
Gerry
ps. Are you at Kemble this week
________________________________________________________________________________
.... thanks Tony,you nailed it!!! Thats the beauty of home building........
it all in the eye of the beholder!!
karim.
#420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Aligning Vertical Tail |
Hans,
Done that, been there!!
An inherit twist exists in the lower module when moulded. Slight misalignment with
the fin once top module is bonded. Best thing to do.....leave it and live
with it. Trying to correct it is only putting more stress in the modules and who
knows what might happen later.
It will fly perfectly well I believe, say the experts.
Cheers,
Tim Ward
Hans Jrgen Danielsen wrote:
> The following was sent to the wrong adress. Here it goes again.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Jrgen Danielsen
> Subject: Aligning Vertical Tail
>
> Hi all.
>
> As many of you have experienced aligning things can be timeconsuming and frustrating!
I have problems in adjusting the fin to a perfect vertical position,
after fitting top module. The mould is clecoed in placed (with screws actually),
but when fastening a plumb-bob string to the inside top center of the fin leading
edge, the weight indicates quite a few mm to the right of center line in
the lower mould.
>
> I think I know why. There is a built-in twist in the lower moulding which went
unnoticed when installing the Stabilizer torque tube and aft bulkhead. The manual
didn't warn about this possibility. So to recapitulate: The torque tube
was installed as per manual with horizontal alignment with the forward part of
the mould (straight edge between bolts in wing pin holes). In other words the
hole for the left bronze bushing had to be widened slightly to obtain correct
alignment before fastening the bushings - thus building in the twist.
>
> The question is: What do I do? By grabbing the top of the fin and forceing it
to the left and cleco it in this position I'm still left with the weight pointing
5-6 mm to the right of the centerline. I'm able to force it a bit further
to the side, but am reluctant to do so as not to introduce unacceptable stress
to the top moulding. Are there any others out there who have experienced such
annoying misalignment (who did not check twist and corrected it before going
ahead with torque tube installation)? Would a slightly tilted fin be noticed
at all - or affect flying to any degree??
>
> Hans.
>
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 03 3515166
email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
Hi, Ferg --
Sorry, but that was just hyperbole! Actually, I have videos of what
goes on now in the newest airliners, with full explanation. As
against the 10-minute interval gauge scans you mention, the difference
in concept is now quite evident.
They say the airline cockpit of the future will still have a crew of
two. The other is a dog. The dog bites the captain if he or she
touches a switch. Either one of them.
Best,
Fred F.
Fergus Kyle wrote:
>
> > So here we are, periodically monitoring systems, thinking we're
> > emulating professional cockpit crews. Who are actually enjoying the>
> flight, kibitzing about company policy, sports, and flight attendants.
>
> Now, Fred,
> I always spoke well of you!
> Here we speak of 'professional' as those who profess publicly.
> We don't have Professional Hockey players, they're commercial - although the
> TV channels are managing to convert children to alien habits.
> Actually, my first instructor required us to do a cockpit check
> every 10 minutes (except when he thought I was going to kill him) and I
> tried to do that all through fighters, but 35 years of transport would be
> 96,000 checks enroute - to say nothing of the size of the panel on an
> L-1011...........
> So what about that cutie in Cabin 3?
> ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Door Audio Warning - - Was LEDs |
Alan D Stewart wrote:
> ...
> In the UK we aren't supposed to fly at night or in IFR conditions in
> this aircraft. Perhaps in other countries the rules are slightly
> different ?
> ....
In the U.S., it might depend upon the meaning of "slightly." The
operating limitations permit night and/or IFR if equipped per usual
Regulations. No apparent approval or inspection of what you install
to comply. Even approach-certified GPS. Bolt her in, file, and go
shoot some approaches in IMC at night if you want. For other than
homebuilts, it's a bureaucratic wringer just for IFR enroute/terminal
only GPS approval.
However, if the manufacturer's data plate is not in its precise
location, and/or not flameproof....
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hedley brown" <hedley(at)hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk> |
shoe goo was available in the U.K.at the sort of shops that sold
'trainers'... now that they are used so commonly for anything but training
and have become an accessory, the current customers would never be seen in
patched-up sneakers so it may have ceased to be offered nowadays....h
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan <aopd37(at)dsl.pipex.com>
Subject: Mac Servo
> Has any one located a UK version of the 'Shoe Goo' used in Bob Nuckolls of
> the
> AeroElectric Connection 'Little Connector' solution for the Mac Servo.
>
> Ta
>
> AlanB
> #303
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nigel Charles <72016.3721(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Fred
It was mainly the switch arrangement on the doors that seemed a little
involved. I mounted a microswitch for and aft so that the shoot bolts had
to be fully home to make a connection. If the position of the body of the
switch is correct, adjustments can be made by bending the lever arm. I
wired the switches in parallel so either switch can activate a warning. I
agree that with the sun at an awkward angle it is easy to miss a light
indication. An alternative is to have (like in airliners) a bright
attention getting light whenever any individual light is on.
Like you I think some form of door warning is essential.
Also as I have a monowheel I have also put microswitches on the landing
gear. The outriggers are particularly important as they cannot be checked
visually.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Mycroft" <frankm(at)clara.net> |
Does anyone have the anser to my problem with my Terra Radio. The local radio
shop have tested the radio and found no fault, but in the aircraft the symptoms
are:-
Reception loud and clear
Transmission unreadable with or without engine running, and with or without intercom
switched on, and whether in the air or on the ground
Intercom is normal and clear
When PTT is pressed pilot hears his own transmission clear but far too loud
(Headphones and mic.work normally when plugged into ICOM handheld)
Frank Mycroft (G-BWYD)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TroyMaynor(at)aol.com |
Howdy All,
I have some connectors that I found in some surplus. I would like to find the
current rating for these if possible. I was thinking about using one for an
instrument panel disconnect. I've looked in all my catalogs but am unable to
find anything. They are solder tab AMPHENOL connectors and are rectangular
in shape. The number on the female part is: 26-4200-32S, and the male half is
26-4100-32P. They are some kind of chassis connector, minus the screws. Maybe
some of you have access to the info I need or know where I can look. So far
no answer from Amphenol.
Thanks,
Troy Maynor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru engine mount |
Thanks Everyone,
I can say 100% that I have the wrong frame. It is the frame for the
2200. I am still waiting for a reply from Jabiru.
Shame really as we got it powder coated too!
Regards
Eddie
Quoting Tom & Cathy Friedland :
> Hi Ed
>
> The mounting frame that I received with my Europa/J3300 fwf kit is 8
> 5/8
> inches from the front of the Europa frame to the aft side of the
motor
> mount on the Engine.
>
> Tom
>
> bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > Are there any other Jabiru 3300 Europa builders out there who
could
> > give me the dimensions of their engine mounting frame (apart from
> Bob
> > who made his own), only It would appear that our cowling is 3 to 4
> > inches too short, or the mount is too long. I suspect that it is a
> > mount for a 2200 not 3300, but I need to confirm this with
> > measurements.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > /////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
> > ///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
> > www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
> >
>
_
> > The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
>
_
> The Europa Forum is supported by Aviators Network UK
>
>
/////Eddie Hatcher Bill Lams Nick Crisp///////
///SouthEastLondonFlyingGroup///G-SELF powered by Jabiru 3300///
www.crispsite.flyer.co.uk/newropa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan D Stewart" <alan.stewart(at)blueyonder.co.uk> |
Oh dear,
Hi Frank. Sorry to tell you that your 'tale of woe' is not unique. This
has been discussed on this forum before.
With regard to transmission being 'too loud', I can't comment.
However:
'Transmission unreadable' I'm surprised if it's always unreadable.
Others have found that transmission is unreadable a % of times. (in my
case, luckily, about 10%) and only with certain ground stations
(Tatenhill, Le Touquet !! etc etc)
The questions are:
1/ Does *anyone* out there own a Terra 760D transceiver which transmits
ok 100% of the time ?
2/ If so did it formerly not work, and what solution was found ?
I presume you have fitted the standard Europa antenna in the tail.
However the installation manual supplied with the kit is quite specific
about the antenna required, citing the consequences you have described
if this procedure is not followed.
Therefore, I had always thought that creating a flattish 42 inch
diameter ground plane somewhere on the aircraft (under wing?, back of
fuselage?), coupled with a perpendicular 1/4 wave antenna in the middle
would help alleviate the problem, but those who have tried have told me
this does not help. Farmer George Holt has tried this, I believe. Others
have spent money and sent the kit back to Trimble in the States, to no
avail, I'm afraid.
Best of luck. If you find a solution.... if *anyone* finds a solution,
please tell *all* of us.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Terra Radio
Does anyone have the anser to my problem with my Terra Radio. The local
radio shop have tested the radio and found no fault, but in the aircraft
the symptoms are:-
Reception loud and clear
Transmission unreadable with or without engine running, and with or
without intercom switched on, and whether in the air or on the ground
Intercom is normal and clear
When PTT is pressed pilot hears his own transmission clear but far too
loud
(Headphones and mic.work normally when plugged into ICOM handheld)
>Frank Mycroft (G-BWYD)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DaveBuzz(at)aol.com |
Frank, Alan,
I had a similar problem with my Terra radio, bought around mid 94 and finally
flying in 'UM april 99. Probably transmission unreadable about 5 to 10% of the
time until about 11/2 years ago when it just stopped transmitting voice - very
strong carrier wave though apparantly.
I decided that rather than re-design the panel with a new radio, I'd have it
fixed. Sent it to Terra in and it was back within 4 weeks. Works
great now. Can get you the address tonight if you want to consider this option.
BTW, I have the standard Europa fin aerial, works ok for me, have been 2-way
with some stations up to 60NM out, and the aerial lead plugs into a panel mounted
socket for easier panel removal.
chus,
dave
g-bxum
kit67
> Oh dear,
>
> Hi Frank. Sorry to tell you that your 'tale of woe' is not unique. This has been
discussed on this forum before. 'Transmission unreadable' I'm surprised if
it's always unreadable. Others have found that transmission is unreadable a %
> The questions are:
>
> 1/ Does *anyone* out there own a Terra 760D transceiver which transmits
> ok 100% of the time ?
> 2/ If so did it formerly not work, and what solution was found ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Chetwynd-Talbot" <markt(at)avnet.co.uk> |
-----Original Message-----
From: forum-owner(at)europaclub.org.uk
Subject: Terra Radio
Does anyone have the anser to my problem with my Terra Radio. The local
radio shop have tested the radio and found no fault, but in the aircraft the
symptoms are:-
Reception loud and clear
Transmission unreadable with or without engine running, and with or without
intercom switched on, and whether in the air or on the ground
Intercom is normal and clear
When PTT is pressed pilot hears his own transmission clear but far too loud
(Headphones and mic.work normally when plugged into ICOM handheld)
>Frank Mycroft (G-BWYD)
I had a similar problem. I removed the radio from the panel and had a look
at the setting of the sidetone and mic gain screws (top casing) and the vox
squelch setting on the bottom of the set casing. One of these may
inadvertently have been turned right down (or up) and resetting to a
different level (Middle-ish in my case) cured the problem. I think it was
the squelch which was wrong in my case but I cannot really remember now.
Can't say transmission is brilliant but stations hear me at about 30 miles
2500'.
Worth a try, anyway.
Mark (G-CHET)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)ukmicrolights.com> |
| Subject: | Draper plus Mono vs Tri |
Fao Andy Draper,
Andy and all,
Many thanks for your reply regarding Mono vs Trigear.
March 14, 2002 - March 26, 2002
Europa-Archive.digest.vol-cj