Europa-Archive.digest.vol-de
May 02, 2003 - May 28, 2003
>Gerry
Gerry
Our generation was the one that had the wisdom to use them. Remember
Leonardo? His generation suppressed innovation, as does the present hierarchy.
I would suggest that government, lawyers and establishment control us for
their good, not ours.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: We made it!!!! |
Gents,
The overwhelming impression in Canada is, "We cannot govern
ourselves" since we insist on giving every grunt a majority house.
The one appealing relief is the adage, "In USA the people hate
the government, in Canada the government hates the people".
Cheers,
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: We made it!!!!
>
> >This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem
> >solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion
> >of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and
> >responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.
> >
> >If you're one of them. Congratulations!
> >You have had the luck to grow up as kids, before lawyers and government
> >regulated our lives, for our own good.
> >Gerry
>
> Gerry
> Our generation was the one that had the wisdom to use them. Remember
> Leonardo? His generation suppressed innovation, as does the present
hierarchy.
> I would suggest that government, lawyers and establishment control us for
> their good, not ours.
> Graham
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Instruments |
I am having difficulty contacting Rocky Mountain Instruments with regard
to a technical query. All their email addresses seem to be rejecting my
emails. I have sent a fax but have yet to get a reply. This all seems rather
strange as in the past Ron Mowrer of RMI has replied to my previous emails
very promptly. Has anyone managed to get through to RMI recently?
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RK Hallett III <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I haven't seen any postings since 4/29.
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com> |
yes the list is still up , several messages today
regards Ivor phillips
----- Original Message -----
From: "RK Hallett III" <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Europa-List: is list up?
>
> I haven't seen any postings since 4/29.
>
> Ralph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike(at)cox.net> |
List is up. I'm busy filling & Sanding.
Joe Like
A086
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Stills" <astills785(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm currently getting close to the stage of working "in the boat". I purchased
the kit from a builder that had skiped all the tailplanes and went to the cockpit.
A lot of the interior is installed including the cockpit module, and the
wheel assembly. I just ordered the tri-gear mod and know some of you have elected
to go with the tri-gear mod and would appreciate any helps and tips when taking
out the mono-wheel and installing the tri-gear.
Al Stills
A095
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DuaneFamly(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pix of Trigear Master Brake Cylinder |
Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone had some pix of their installation of the dual
finger brake master cylinder inside the tunnel.
I am not one to redo and insult those that gone before me.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Trigear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Flairing Tool Advice |
Gidday,
I have searched my overloaded e-mail program to find a message from someone
who gave me great guidance regarding the use of a 37 degree flairing tool.
The problem is that I can't find it to reread it, and I wonder who it was,
and whether there is any other words of wisdom using one of these tools. It
is a really great looking piece of kit, but even though I have cut the
bundy tube as square as I can, I still end up with a small offset in the
finished flair, it sits off on an angle. I also wonder about the use of
Hermetite on all of the sealing surfaces, and the amount of tension
required to tighten up a standard AN fitting?
Thanks
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flairing Tool Advice |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
You'll need one extra tool and that's a tube cutter. A tube cutter
ensures that the cut is perpendicular to the tube, something that is
extremely difficult to ensure if you cut the tube with a hacksaw.
You shouldn't need to use any sealant on a flared joint. The connectors
and flare itself should be sufficient to ensure a gas tight seal.
It is important not to overtighten flared joints otherwise the AN
fitting will actually cut through the flare.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Renshaw
Cc:=09
Subject: Europa-List: Flairing Tool Advice
Gidday,
I have searched my overloaded e-mail program to find a message from
someone
who gave me great guidance regarding the use of a 37 degree flairing
tool.
The problem is that I can't find it to reread it, and I wonder who it
was,
and whether there is any other words of wisdom using one of these tools.
It
is a really great looking piece of kit, but even though I have cut the
bundy tube as square as I can, I still end up with a small offset in the
finished flair, it sits off on an angle. I also wonder about the use of
Hermetite on all of the sealing surfaces, and the amount of tension
required to tighten up a standard AN fitting?
Thanks
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pix of Trigear Master Brake Cylinder |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Mike Hi!
> I was wondering if anyone had some pix of their installation of the
> dual
> finger brake master cylinder inside the tunnel.
>
I will oblige later today 'off-line'.
Gerry
Gerry Holland
mailto://gnholland(at)onetel.com
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
The greatest enjoyment from existence is living dangerously....
Friedrich Nietzsche
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan" <aopd37(at)dsl.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid Auto Pilot Advice |
Before I glue in the Cock-pit Module I'd like to fit the leaver arm for the
Navaid Auto Pilot.
Has any one retro-fitted this after finishing the torque tube and could
advise how they made the bracket to clamp to it.
I'm following Mod 10507 from the Europa Club.
Thank you
Alan
#303
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/03/03 |
| From: | Paul Atkinson <paul(at)theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> |
Nigel
Funny that.... I have had the same experience recently. Ron blamed it on
my email address. His spam blocker was picking "demon" as something that
should be rejected. Were yours being rejected as spam ?
Ron has generally responded to my faxes though. I think he is due for
another one :-)
Cheers
Paul
>
> From: nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: Europa-List: Rocky Mountain Instruments
>
>
> I am having difficulty contacting Rocky Mountain Instruments with regard
> to a technical query. All their email addresses seem to be rejecting my
> emails. I have sent a fax but have yet to get a reply. This all seems
> rather
> strange as in the past Ron Mowrer of RMI has replied to my previous
> emails
> very promptly. Has anyone managed to get through to RMI recently?
>
> Nigel Charles
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Static when refueling? |
Have a few questions about refueling.
If using Mogas, do you take precautions to somehow ground the can?
Can you use plastic gas can?
If using 100LL at an airport, where/would you attach ground clamp?
Thanks.
Ron Parigoris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
Hi Ronald
EAA's CAFE Fundation had a nice article/study on that subject some time
ago - I have it as an PDF file (252 K) - if interested, contact me off
the Forum, and I will mail it to you.
Regards Gert
Gert Dalgaard Soerensen
Stabelvej 9, Haarby
DK 8660 Skanderborg
Denmark
Europa builder No. 151
AC reg.: OY-GDS
Phone.: +45 8695 0595
E mail: lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpeg
sndag 4. maj 2003 kl. 12:01 skrev Ronald J. Parigoris:
>
>
>
> Have a few questions about refueling.
>
> If using Mogas, do you take precautions to somehow ground the can?
>
> Can you use plastic gas can?
>
> If using 100LL at an airport, where/would you attach ground clamp?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Flairing Tool Advice |
Tony,
Thanks for the tips. What tension have you used, or is it simply a feel thing?
I have always overtightened things, but I think I am getting a little better.
Would you use Hermetite on the AN fitting setups??
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>
>You'll need one extra tool and that's a tube cutter. A tube cutter
>ensures that the cut is perpendicular to the tube, something that is
>extremely difficult to ensure if you cut the tube with a hacksaw.
>
>You shouldn't need to use any sealant on a flared joint. The connectors
>and flare itself should be sufficient to ensure a gas tight seal.
>
>It is important not to overtighten flared joints otherwise the AN
>fitting will actually cut through the flare.
>
>Tony
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Renshaw
>Sent: Sun 4/05/2003 4:12 p.m.
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Cc:=09
>Subject: Europa-List: Flairing Tool Advice
>
>
>
>Gidday,
>I have searched my overloaded e-mail program to find a message from
>someone
>who gave me great guidance regarding the use of a 37 degree flairing
>tool.
>The problem is that I can't find it to reread it, and I wonder who it
>was,
>and whether there is any other words of wisdom using one of these tools.
>It
>is a really great looking piece of kit, but even though I have cut the
>bundy tube as square as I can, I still end up with a small offset in the
>finished flair, it sits off on an angle. I also wonder about the use of
>Hermetite on all of the sealing surfaces, and the amount of tension
>required to tighten up a standard AN fitting?
>Thanks
>Reg
>Tony Renshaw
>Sydney Australia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister(at)qia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Auto Pilot Advice |
Alan,
Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/mar-00.html for some ideas.
Unfortunately it didn't show a photo of the bracket that attaches to the
torque tube. I manufactured a saddle out of 10 gauge aluminum with a tab
approximately 50 mm long that attaches to the servo arm. I hope this helps.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Auto Pilot Advice |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
A photo on the way showing one method.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
mailto://gnholland(at)onetel.com
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
The greatest enjoyment from existence is living dangerously....
Friedrich Nietzsche
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | europa club seminar |
I've rather late in the day decided I can get to the Europa Club
seminar at Frimley in a fortnight, but haven't yet booked a room. I
gather all the rooms have at least 2 beds - would anyone already
booked care to reduce their accomodation costs by sharing their room
with me? If I don't hear anything in a couple of days I'll book one
for myself, but just thought someone might be happy to combine forces
to our mutual advantage.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (540 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/03/03 |
>Funny that.... I have had the same experience recently. Ron blamed it on
my email address. His spam blocker was picking "demon" as something that
should be rejected. Were yours being rejected as spam ?
Ron has generally responded to my faxes though. I think he is due for
another one :-)<
Thanks Paul.
Yes my emails are being blocked by a spam blocker as well. I am still
awaiting a reply to my fax. Probably best to ring.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Auto Pilot Advice |
>Before I glue in the Cock-pit Module I'd like to fit the leaver arm for the
Navaid Auto Pilot.
Has any one retro-fitted this after finishing the torque tube and could
advise how they made the bracket to clamp to it.
I'm following Mod 10507 from the Europa Club.<
Having written this mod I thought I had better offer some input.
Assuming you are happy to buy an extra CS03 an easy way to retrofit the mod
is to cut it in half longitudinally, attach the arm to it and then rivet and
Redux the assembly to the torque tube. There is plenty of strength in the
CS03 for this and minimises fabrication. Some other builder might be glad of
the remaining half of the CS03 for his/her build.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Europa Club Modifications Rep
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <mx(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Flairing Tool Advice |
I endorse what TonyK said about using a tube cutter.
AC43.13-1B gives the tightening torques for AN-818 nuts on alloy tubing as
50 to 65 pound inches for the -4 size (1/4" tube) and
110 to 130 pound inches for the -6 size (3/8" tube) .
Not having a low-range torque wrench I resorted to a spring balance pulling on
the free end of the spanner. The figures for -6, at least, turned out to be a
firm but not hard pull on the length of spanner normally encountered for this
size of hexagon.
Sealing compound is not needed, though make sure the flare is clean and
burr-free both inside and outside and the fittings are clean.
The only tip I would pass on (except for remembering to slide the nut and sleeve
onto the tube before you make the flare ..... :-) ) is, as it says on the
tool, to clean and oil the flaring roller every time before you use it. Then
the roller will slide over the tube without picking up. The oil gets
everywhere, but that is better than a scuffed flare.
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Instruments |
| From: | Dale Hetrick <gdale2(at)juno.com> |
Nigel,
I just talked with Ron Mower who said that his Email address has not
changed. I just pulled up his web page RONMOW(at)RKYMTN.com and note that
another Email address is Webmaster(at)RKYMTN.com. If all else fails, let me
know your question(s) and I'll contact him for you.
Regards,
Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan" <aopd37(at)dsl.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Auto Pilot Advice |
Thank you all your comments, ideas and photos, I know where I'm going now.
Alan
#303
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Outrigger wheels |
Does anyone have a recommendation for outrigger wheels, something a
little higher quality than those included in the kit?
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Outrigger wheels |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
LOL .... yip, "Dennis Vories, P.E" sure does.... but he won't tell
anyone. :-)
From his article at:
http://www.europa-usa.com/enhancements.htm
To quote:
"Items marked with " ** " are my proprietary designs and require
additional documentation including drawings, parts lists, sources of
supply, instructions, etc. Such items may be adopted by Europa Aircraft
as a part of the kit or alternatively may be made available to builders
as a second source detailed documentation and product.
2. **Outrigger and tail wheels have been changed to gray compound
sealed ball bearing wheels of the same size as original wheels. This
has eliminated excessive bearing wear from contamination, need for
repack and slinging of grease. Also gone is the annoying outrigger
resonance in wing and tail wheel echo in fuselage during taxi. The
elimination of wheel rattle heard by observers during taxi greatly
improves the perception of a quality aircraft."
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Seaver [mailto:terrys(at)cisco.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger wheels
Does anyone have a recommendation for outrigger wheels, something a
little higher quality than those included in the kit?
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Refused Europa Factory messages |
Cheers,
Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I directed
same to Andy, and got the same reaction:
"This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The
reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
recipient was rejected.
Recipient: <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "andy@europa-aircraft.com"
Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober event........
Ferg
A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Spring Connector Clips... |
While I'm trying to make contact with the chaps at Europa (see previous
email), does anyone know what cane safely replace the "rings" which came
with the Compression springs at the back of the rudder cables? They are on
page 220 of ACS 2002-2003 as P/N 06-15400 and extend the cable length by
about 7/8". I am looking for a smaller replacement of about 3/8 - 1/2"
extension..........
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger wheels |
......you can say that again.!!!
Karim. # 420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
| Subject: | Re: Refused Europa Factory messages |
05/05/2003 07:14:14 PM
This is most likely a glitch in your name server.
Ira
To: "EUROPALIST"
cc:
bcc:
Subject: Europa-List: Refused Europa Factory messages
"Fergus Kyle"
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
05/05/2003 05:07 PM AST
Cheers,
Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I directed
same to Andy, and got the same reaction:
"This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The
reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
recipient was rejected.
Recipient: <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "andy@europa-aircraft.com"
Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober event........
Ferg
A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Spring Connector Clips... |
I bought a couple AN115-21 cable shackles. But they are about 3/4" long.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Spring Connector Clips...
While I'm trying to make contact with the chaps at Europa (see previous
email), does anyone know what cane safely replace the "rings" which came
with the Compression springs at the back of the rudder cables? They are on
page 220 of ACS 2002-2003 as P/N 06-15400 and extend the cable length by
about 7/8". I am looking for a smaller replacement of about 3/8 - 1/2"
extension..........
Cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <riddon(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | taxiing a tri gear |
My Permit finally arrived last Saturday and, after a number of circuits &
landings with my test pilot / instructor, I finally managed my 'first Europa
solo' Monday afternoon.
What a buzz!!!!
Anyone got any tips on taxiing the tri gear as I found this by far the most
difficult part of handling the aircraft, In fact my last landing was on
runway 28 at Blackpool and the wind was 230 deg. up to 15 kts. I got the
plane down on the tarmac safely but then nearly ended up on the grass as the
wind was weathercocking me powerfully to the left and I really struggled to
keep it on the runway, particularly at the point where the rudder became
ineffective and I had to transfer to the toe brakes.
Any hints and tips would be gratefully received.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
p.s. Bumped into the Europa 'fly-in' to Ireland. It was nice to see a few
more Europa's at Blackpool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Outrigger replacement wheels |
| From: | Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley(at)juno.com> |
Terry, I have been using a replacement wheel recommended by Kim Prout which I am
sure is the same one Dennis is using. So far the wheel has performed much better
than the original one which lasted less than one day. Kim Prout and I were
aggressively taxing my plane prior to the first flight when the wheel disintegrated.
Anyway the wheel is basically an industrial caster made by Colson, check out their
catalog.
http://www.colsoncaster.com/maincatalog/performa.pdf
I went with the round grey tread series 2 vs the flat tread which is what Europa
provide. They are realtively inexpensive at less than $10 each and will need
a bushing for the proper bolt diameter which was also available at the local
hardware store.
Erich Trombley
A028
Does anyone have a recommendation for outrigger wheels, something a
little higher quality than those included in the kit?
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 914 fuel pressure |
jas56d(at)msn.com
Here is a question that comes after thinking quite a bit.
The 914 engine has two electric fuel pumps that feed fuel to the engine. The
fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated by a fuel regulator on the top of
the airbox. It maintains the fuel pressure at about 3.5 psi above the airbox
pressure. The normal range is from 2.0 to 5.0 psi delta above airbox
pressure. Should the pressure go over 5.0 delta, there is risk of flooding
the carbs.
I have been trying to figure a way to measure that parameter and have not
found a cheap way, since a delta pressure sensor to do that job is very
expensive, I think.
I had an idea that I acted on and that was to record fuel pressure vs
manifold pressure, to see if the relationship would be similar to the airbox
relationship. It turned out to be linear and I set up my monitor to compare
the fuel pressure reading to manifold pressure with a derived simple math
function. I ran the engine today, and it basically worked OK, staying within
my prescribed limits based on reason.
It worked fine, except for the fact that the fuel pressure reading jumped 2.2
psi with the second fuel pump turned on. This has always bothered me that the
fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated, yet it significantly increases
with the second fuel pump activated along with the first. I am measuring raw
fuel pressure in the line coming from the pumps, going to the engine.
The Rotax manual has the two pumps in series, yet the Europa manual calls for
them to be in parallel. Mine are as the Europa manual calls. I am now
wondering if the airplane should be operated with one pump running, rather
than 2. I have a system set up to automatically activate the second pump,
should the first one fail.
An additional factoid is that my engine spits small amounts of soot onto the
leading edge of the wing and I am wondering if I am getting that from running
the engine on the virge of flooding with 2 pumps turned on for aake off and
landing. I would love to talk to a Rotax engineer, but I find them hard to
come by. Anybody have any ideas on this? Should the fuel pressure be measured
in the line from the regulator to the carb? If I institute the policy of
taking off with one pump, that would solve this puzzle, but I am not sure
what is correct.
Thanks,
Dave
A227
Mini u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <longezav8r(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Airport Lot for Sale / Trade for Europa XS |
Hello, I have an airport lot at Lake California in Cottonwood California just south of Redding. For financial reasons I am no longer going to build a home on the lot and would like to offer the lot in trade for a Europa XS kit / already built as I need an airplane that I can keep at home and trailer to and from the airport. If anyone is interested please visit www.lakecalifornia.com for more information and contact me via e-mail with any questions. Regards, Steven
Regards,
Steven
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Rolo-Flairing Tool (I think I have a dud) |
Gidday,
Sorry to keep going on about this but I have a problem, I think. The flairing
tool I have appears to be high quality, but there are a couple of areas where I
am unsure. IT is a Parker Rolo-Flair 37 degree tool. It has a multiple pipe
diameter clamping system which is an extension from the handle, and ontop of
this is a bridge system that elevates a centrally located spindle above the
pipe, which comes in from the opposing side. Within this threaded spindle is
the flairing die and it winds into the pipe that is clamped to a pre determined
depth by a depth gauge feature, which is very nicely engineered. So, my problem
is that the spindle is loose and so is the bridge support, but only by a little
bit. It results in the die winding down into the tube, but allows it to become
"non concentric" within the scope of the sloppiness of the spindle. Suffice to
say, as you wind it into the pipe it migrates in an uncontrollable direction,
or at least I can't control it. So I want to know if this sloppiness is normal?
It is made by Parker in the US and I seem to recall it is called a Roto
Flairing tool. Red Handle, bronzy coloured metal. Has anyone else had the same
problems, and if so, how do I stop it happening???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cliff" <mx(at)crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolo-Flairing Tool (I think I have a dud) |
>
> Gidday,
> Sorry to keep going on about this but I have a problem, I think. The flairing
> tool I have appears to be high quality, but there are a couple of areas where
I
> am unsure. IT is a Parker Rolo-Flair 37 degree tool. It has a multiple pipe
> diameter clamping system which is an extension from the handle, and ontop of
> this is a bridge system that elevates a centrally located spindle above the
> pipe, which comes in from the opposing side. Within this threaded spindle is
> the flairing die and it winds into the pipe that is clamped to a pre
determined
> depth by a depth gauge feature, which is very nicely engineered. So, my
problem
> is that the spindle is loose and so is the bridge support, but only by a
little
> bit. It results in the die winding down into the tube, but allows it to become
> "non concentric" within the scope of the sloppiness of the spindle. Suffice to
> say, as you wind it into the pipe it migrates in an uncontrollable direction,
> or at least I can't control it. So I want to know if this sloppiness is
normal?
> It is made by Parker in the US and I seem to recall it is called a Roto
> Flairing tool. Red Handle, bronzy coloured metal. Has anyone else had the same
> problems, and if so, how do I stop it happening???
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
I have exactly the same tool. The spindle is also floppy when not under load,
some kind of self-aligning bearing I guess. If you put an axial load on the
roller, as when it meets the tubing, the floppiness largely disappears. The
swinging bridge piece is not floppy in a transverse direction, only slight
movement..
The two die wheels should lock hard together when the wing nut clamping the
bridge piece is tightened, gripping the tubing tightly. The roller will then
find its own centre as it is wound into the tube end (if the tube end is square,
of course). Makes perfectly good flares for me. Keep at it !
One or two practice shots are desirable, to find out how long to go on winding
to make a flare which is big enough but not over-thiined.
John Cliff
#0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 914 fuel pressure |
| From: | "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys(at)att.com> |
Dave, respectfully I think you may be agonizing over nothing. There are
multiple thousands of 914's running all over the world. Most use the
same fuel pump and pressure regulator that you have. They all work just
fine. Why tinker with something that isn't broke? Stop worrying and
start flying!
Regards,
Garry V. Stout
N4220S 914-trigear
-----Original Message-----
From: DJA727(at)aol.com [mailto:DJA727(at)aol.com]
Here is a question that comes after thinking quite a bit.
The 914 engine has two electric fuel pumps that feed fuel to the engine.
The
fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated by a fuel regulator on the top
of
the airbox. It maintains the fuel pressure at about 3.5 psi above the
airbox
pressure. The normal range is from 2.0 to 5.0 psi delta above airbox
pressure. Should the pressure go over 5.0 delta, there is risk of
flooding
the carbs.
I have been trying to figure a way to measure that parameter and have
not
found a cheap way, since a delta pressure sensor to do that job is very
expensive, I think.
I had an idea that I acted on and that was to record fuel pressure vs
manifold pressure, to see if the relationship would be similar to the
airbox
relationship. It turned out to be linear and I set up my monitor to
compare
the fuel pressure reading to manifold pressure with a derived simple
math
function. I ran the engine today, and it basically worked OK, staying
within
my prescribed limits based on reason.
It worked fine, except for the fact that the fuel pressure reading
jumped 2.2
psi with the second fuel pump turned on. This has always bothered me
that the
fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated, yet it significantly
increases
with the second fuel pump activated along with the first. I am measuring
raw
fuel pressure in the line coming from the pumps, going to the engine.
The Rotax manual has the two pumps in series, yet the Europa manual
calls for
them to be in parallel. Mine are as the Europa manual calls. I am now
wondering if the airplane should be operated with one pump running,
rather
than 2. I have a system set up to automatically activate the second
pump,
should the first one fail.
An additional factoid is that my engine spits small amounts of soot onto
the
leading edge of the wing and I am wondering if I am getting that from
running
the engine on the virge of flooding with 2 pumps turned on for aake off
and
landing. I would love to talk to a Rotax engineer, but I find them hard
to
come by. Anybody have any ideas on this? Should the fuel pressure be
measured
in the line from the regulator to the carb? If I institute the policy of
taking off with one pump, that would solve this puzzle, but I am not
sure
what is correct.
Thanks,
Dave
A227
Mini u2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 914 fuel pressure |
In a message dated 5/7/2003 5:23:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, garrys(at)att.com
writes:
> Dave, respectfully I think you may be agonizing over nothing. There are
> multiple thousands of 914's running all over the world. Most use the
> same fuel pump and pressure regulator that you have. They all work just
> fine. Why tinker with something that isn't broke? Stop worrying and
> start flying!
>
I appreciate your point as I am a believer in the philosophy of if it ain't
broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, the fuel pressure regulation is key
to the successful operation of the engine. I don't like to factor in historic
reliability in my decisions as to what is important to monitor. If I did, why
bother reading oil pressure? Engines are running all over the world without
problems? How many times does an oil pump fail?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alleron Fitting |
Hi Alan,
Sorry for the delay in replying, we have had a major glitch here with our computer
system, nothing was coming, although a test message I sent from home appeared
to have made it ( I didn't get a non delivered note on my home computer).
Anyway, we are up and running again!
I can't remember how much detail on closing the wings I gave you , so here is my
latest procedeure.
Trim the aileron closeout flange to be 1/2'' wide (the part that bonds to the top
skin).
Trim the flap closeout flange to 1/2''.
Cut the bond at the rear of the rib on the rib at half aileron span to let the
closeout be free, also do the same on the outer flange of the outrigger rib.
The vertical web at the inboard end of the aileron should be cut out to leave
a 1/4'' rim.
Cut the ''roof'' off of the aileron mass balance boxes, and bond them onto the
lower skin, centred on the balance arms, as per manual.
Cleco the top skin on, and scribe a line on the underside, useing the closeout
flanges as a guide, and cut off the exess, so the upper panel matches the closeouts.
Cover the leading edge of the flap and aileron with 3 or 4mm kitchen floor linolium
or similar, and rig the flaps fully up, and the aileron in neutral.
Glue the top skin on, with steel box section over the spar flange joint, and on
top of the flap and aileron joints, with enough weight to gently squeeze the
Redux out.Put a generous amount of Redux on the ribs, and make a fillet along
the closeout joints to enlarge the glue line to about 3/4'', the Redux should
be thickened with cotton flox to the ''just doesn't run'' state.
When fully cured (leave for three days), remove the ailerons and flaps, and scuff
sand the inside of the mass balance boxes, and the underside of the upper panel,
and do a 3 ply Bid lay up from the box onto the skin.
When you remove the lino' you will have a uniform gap.Sand the aileron closeout/skin
edge at an angle, to match the required up deflection of the aileron.
This works every time, I did the last one this week.
Hope this will help, phone me on 1751 433475 if you need to talk this through,
sorry again about the delay.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "Alan Stills" 04/26/03 11:49pm >>>
Nevelle.
Appreciate the advice, however the closeout at the root was approximately
45MM while my aileron's are both 60 MM finished. The outboard end varied on
both the wings. I've quiried the factory as 15MM difference is a little much
for a factory fastbuild. Thanks
Al Stills
A095
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Refused Europa Factory messages |
Hi ALL,
We are alive and kicking!
Had some sort of glitch in the system, seems O.K.now.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "Fergus Kyle" 05/05/03 10:07pm >>>
Cheers,
Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I directed
same to Andy, and got the same reaction:
"This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The
reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
recipient was rejected.
Recipient: <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "andy@europa-aircraft.com"
Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober event........
Ferg
A064
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Europa R/C Model |
In case you havent seen it check out this website:
www.rchomebuilts.com
BOb Jacobsen
A131
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Vacuum pump leaking |
I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump (on
912S). It is coming out of
the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal between it
and the gearbox. The pump
was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have only
done warmups and midrange
rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external drive. Does
it indicate something more
sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ?
The pump isn't vital at this stage, but what about the engine ?
Please help, anyone, if you have an answer.
Cheers, Karl Heindl, 392 tri in Canada
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Ron,
Try to refuel with metal cans rather than plastic. (Tough to
find) I bonded my whole system to a common point that extends with a
metal tab below the fuselage next to the fuel drains. This way I can
hook up a grounding strap and the whole fuel system is ground potential.
My fuel entrance fitting that the cap goes into is grounded to the
outlets at the tank and to the ground in the electrical system. You can
ground the fuel system in the bottom of the tank by using the aluminum
fittings that provide sump drains. The redux will provide an electrical
pathway so the copper lines that go deep into the tank can pull static
out. Use a small screw clamp to hold a wire onto the fitting on each
side. These should go to a common point for bonding. I also put in a
braided cable from the entrance down through the plastic tubing into the
tank all hooked together at one point. Ta Da. !! I think its the best
you can do with our plastic airplane.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
writes:
>
>
>
> Have a few questions about refueling.
>
> If using Mogas, do you take precautions to somehow ground the can?
>
> Can you use plastic gas can?
>
> If using 100LL at an airport, where/would you attach ground clamp?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum pump leaking |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Karl,
Replace it with an all electrical system and you won't have those
problems :-)) I went to all electrical in my 912S Mono Wheel. Vacuum
systems do not have a good reputation for long livity. The old wet
vacuum systems lasted but it seem as though thoes are hard to find as
everyone had gone dry.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
writes:
>
>
> I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump
> (on
> 912S). It is coming out of
> the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal
> between it
> and the gearbox. The pump
> was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have
> only
> done warmups and midrange
> rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external
> drive. Does
> it indicate something more
> sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ?
>
> The pump isn't vital at this stage, but what about the engine ?
>
> Please help, anyone, if you have an answer.
>
> Cheers, Karl Heindl, 392 tri in Canada
>
> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
>
>
>
>
> Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Stills" <astills785(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Refused Europa Factory messages |
Neville,
Thanks for the answer, I recieved both your e-mails and you answered my
questions...albieght a little late..again thank you
Al Stills
A095
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Refused Europa Factory messages
<Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
>
> Hi ALL,
> We are alive and kicking!
> Had some sort of glitch in the system, seems O.K.now.
> Cheers,
> Nev.
>
> >>> "Fergus Kyle" 05/05/03 10:07pm >>>
>
> Cheers,
> Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I
directed
> same to Andy, and got the same reaction:
>
> "This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
> Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The
> reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each
> recipient was rejected.
>
> Recipient: <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
> Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in
"andy@europa-aircraft.com"
>
> Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober
event........
> Ferg
> A064
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 914 fuel pressure |
DJA727(at)aol.com wrote:
> Here is a question that comes after thinking quite a bit.
>
> It maintains the fuel pressure at about 3.5 psi above the airbox
> pressure. The normal range is from 2.0 to 5.0 psi delta above airbox
> pressure.
> ...
> I have been trying to figure a way to measure that parameter and have
> not found a cheap way, since a delta pressure sensor to do that job
> is very expensive, I think.
I've seen spec sheets where there's two versions on the same sheet. One
is sealed; the other is called differential and has a second hose barb
where the other one is sealed. One does need to look for a fuel/solvent
resistant type, though.
> It worked fine, except for the fact that the fuel pressure reading
> jumped 2.2 psi with the second fuel pump turned on. This has always
> bothered me that the fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated,
> yet it significantly increases with the second fuel pump activated
> along with the first.
Wonder if that's back pressure in the return line. I would tee into the
return line at a low point level with tank bottom, and with a full tank.
Clear tubing then pointing skyward. Measure increases in level with
0, 1 and 2 pumps. One psi = 27.7" of water at sea level, or 36.9" of
fuel. Don't forget to add say .6 psi for worst case pressure induced
by the tank vent in cruise.
> Should the fuel pressure be measured in the line from the regulator
> to the carb?
I believe that will same pressure, looking at internal design of the
regulator.
> If I institute the policy of taking off with one pump, that would
> solve this puzzle, but I am not sure what is correct.
Upon failure it's maybe 5 seconds 'til silence, and if early in
climbout, I don't like the idea of dealing with even first an aural
alarm by trying 2nd pump at a time where delay in setting up for forced
landing can be bad. The FAA has an AC advising mfrs (other than
airliners) how to deal with the requirement to meet specified failure
probabilities in critical systems. Amazing how mere redundancy
simplifies compliance!
Good luck!
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 914 fuel pressure |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>> Upon failure it's maybe 5 seconds 'til silence, and if early in
climbout, I don't like the idea of dealing with even first an aural
alarm by trying 2nd pump at a time where delay in setting up for forced
landing can be bad.
It's actually more than that. I reckon it was about 15 seconds before it
all went quiet in cruise. Then 5 seconds to realise what had happened,
10 seconds to restart - then two hours to rework the owner's panel so
that the pilot couldn't inadvertently turn off both pumps in flight when
he only meant to turn off the boost pump.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Stills" <astills785(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | aileron closeout |
Hi all,
I finally got the answer to my questions on the aileron closeout from Nigel at
the factory and am posting it for others to see.
Al Stills
A095
Hi Alan,
Sorry for the delay in replying, we have had a major glitch here with our computer
system, nothing was coming, although a test message I sent from home appeared
to have made it ( I didn't get a non delivered note on my home computer).
Anyway, we are up and running again!
I can't remember how much detail on closing the wings I gave you , so here is my
latest procedeure.
Trim the aileron closeout flange to be 1/2'' wide (the part that bonds to the top
skin).
Trim the flap closeout flange to 1/2''.
Cut the bond at the rear of the rib on the rib at half aileron span to let the
closeout be free, also do the same on the outer flange of the outrigger rib.
The vertical web at the inboard end of the aileron should be cut out to leave
a 1/4'' rim.
Cut the ''roof'' off of the aileron mass balance boxes, and bond them onto the
lower skin, centred on the balance arms, as per manual.
Cleco the top skin on, and scribe a line on the underside, useing the closeout
flanges as a guide, and cut off the exess, so the upper panel matches the closeouts.
Cover the leading edge of the flap and aileron with 3 or 4mm kitchen floor linolium
or similar, and rig the flaps fully up, and the aileron in neutral.
Glue the top skin on, with steel box section over the spar flange joint, and on
top of the flap and aileron joints, with enough weight to gently squeeze the
Redux out.Put a generous amount of Redux on the ribs, and make a fillet along
the closeout joints to enlarge the glue line to about 3/4'', the Redux should
be thickened with cotton flox to the ''just doesn't run'' state.
When fully cured (leave for three days), remove the ailerons and flaps, and scuff
sand the inside of the mass balance boxes, and the underside of the upper panel,
and do a 3 ply Bid lay up from the box onto the skin.
When you remove the lino' you will have a uniform gap.Sand the aileron closeout/skin
edge at an angle, to match the required up deflection of the aileron.
This works every time, I did the last one this week.
Hope this will help, phone me on 1751 433475 if you need to talk this through,
sorry again about the delay.
Cheers,
Nev.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
Do Not Arcive
Helo Jim Nelson
All sounds very reasonable.
What do you think about including on your description, a piece of chain that
lays on the ground? Some say that they thought a piece of Stainless Steel
Toilet Plunger chain would be a good addition?
Thanks
Ron Parigoris
James Nelson wrote:
>
> Ron,
> Try to refuel with metal cans rather than plastic. (Tough to
> find) I bonded my whole system to a common point that extends with a
> metal tab below the fuselage next to the fuel drains. This way I can
> hook up a grounding strap and the whole fuel system is ground potential.
> My fuel entrance fitting that the cap goes into is grounded to the
> outlets at the tank and to the ground in the electrical system. You can
> ground the fuel system in the bottom of the tank by using the aluminum
> fittings that provide sump drains. The redux will provide an electrical
> pathway so the copper lines that go deep into the tank can pull static
> out. Use a small screw clamp to hold a wire onto the fitting on each
> side. These should go to a common point for bonding. I also put in a
> braided cable from the entrance down through the plastic tubing into the
> tank all hooked together at one point. Ta Da. !! I think its the best
> you can do with our plastic airplane.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Atkinson <paul(at)theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> |
Hello again
I am looking for something to hide the cut edges of material at the
openings of the various storage boxes, i.e under the seats and in the
seat backs. A lighter version of the door seal (without the seal
attached ) would be ideal. Is there anyone out there who can suggest a
source, or has a better idea.
Thanks again
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flight planning software |
| From: | Paul Atkinson <paul(at)theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> |
Hello all,
I'm thinking about what package to buy in the near future, and would
appreciate any comments good or bad (not too slanderous) about your
favourite software. I am after something that will allow me to upload
flight plans to my skymapIII , and print out a route on A4 sheets, thus
avoiding having too many unfolded maps flying around the cockpit. I
assume that these are common features, but the blurb I have read does
not always highlight them.
Thanks in advance
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david.corbett" <david.corbett(at)fwi.co.uk> |
| Subject: | 912S - starting problems |
A friend of mine, Graham Shimmin, has a Banbi with a 912S engine based here at
Shobdon (UK).
I have watched while he and our local Rotax expert have become increasingly frustrated
by the refusal of his engine to start, and I offered to post a message
from him on our website in the hope that one of you out there may be able to
offer advice. Graham writes:
"I have a 912S with 120 hrs on it. The engine has become progressively more difficult
to start, even in warm weather, and is now refusing altogether. All the
normal checks - sparks, fuel, starter speed, slipper clutch tension, etc - have
failed to find the problem, as have a new 12v 17a/h battery and new plugs.
The symptoms suggest the ignition is too far advanced as the engine tries to fire
but kicks back violently. Has anyone out there with the S model had similar
problems, and if so what cured them, please?"
I think I should add that the UK Rotax agents, Nigel and Conrad Beale, have been
to look at this engine and have also so far failed to solve the problem. I have
also watched Graham and Adrian bypass the aircraft ignition and power the
starter to turn the engine over; in that situation it spins perfectly freely through
the apparently normal compressions.
Any advice will be gratefully received, either on the forum - in which case I will
forward it - or direct to Graham, whose address is above.
Many thanks,
David
G-BZAM UK 265 (just passed its 2nd Permit renewal)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. R. Jones" <jronjones(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S - starting problems |
David,
I suggest you speak to David Bowie who has had this problem for some time.
He recently tried a new "heavy duty" starter (suggested by Nigel B - which
wouldn't fit ! )and ended up with the engine out. I understand that a new
"sprag-clutch" has been fitted to the original starter and he also found the
"trigger" gap on one of the mags was far too close. He now appears to have
no problems.
David's 912S has something like 500+ hours on the clock.
Regards,
Ron Jones.
PS. How's your VOR?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: flight planning software |
>I'm thinking about what package to buy in the near future, and would
appreciate any comments good or bad (not too slanderous) about your
favourite software. I am after something that will allow me to upload
flight plans to my skymapIII , and print out a route on A4 sheets, thus
avoiding having too many unfolded maps flying around the cockpit. I
assume that these are common features, but the blurb I have read does
not always highlight them.<
I use Navbox Proplan4 which will work with the Skymap and KMD150. It will
print out navlogs.
To minimise using folded maps I scan and print strip maps from my master
map. Before printing I use the photo software to draw the track line on the
strip map(s). Two strip maps will fit comfortably on A4. On the reverse side
I print the Navlog and destination airfield plate side by side in A5. For
most shorter trips this means that all I use is one piece of A4. Of course I
carry the chart in case I need it for major rerouteing but normally it stays
neatly folded in my navbag.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flight planning software |
A recent review in Aviation Consumer summed it up nicely by saying,
"Computer capable VFR-only pilots who actually own sectionals and an E6B (or
a GPS) probably don't need anything beyond DUAT. For the rest, you needn't
expect any of the three to be idiot proof and completely hands off for IFR
planning. At some point, each gave us an improper SID or STAR, an incorrect
MEA or a plain silly route, particularly if we let it go with its default
options. "
The "three" were Flightsoft, FlightStar, and Destination Direct, and their
conclusion was, "We don't think you can go wrong with any of the three."
Having said that, in my own experience with Destination Direct (the recently
superseded version) for VFR flying I found that it was seriously lacking
because it could not, under any circumstances, automatically plan a flight
to avoid any kind of restricted airspace. It would, however, keep you from
flying over open water, and since the only body of water around here (within
a day's flying time) is the Pacific Ocean I don't need much help avoiding
that. For example, a relatively short flight from the coast of southern
California to Death Valley had the program spinning its wheels without ever
reaching any decision on what route to recommend. DUATS planned the same
flight almost instantly and avoided the numerous MOAs along the route.
Numerous calls to DD's tech support finally resulted in them telling me that
I should not expect a VFR program to keep me out of restricted airspace.
Huh? I wonder what they think we intend to use the program for if not VFR
flight planning.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Atkinson
Subject: Europa-List: flight planning software
Hello all,
I'm thinking about what package to buy in the near future, and would
appreciate any comments good or bad (not too slanderous) about your
favourite software. I am after something that will allow me to upload
flight plans to my skymapIII , and print out a route on A4 sheets, thus
avoiding having too many unfolded maps flying around the cockpit. I
assume that these are common features, but the blurb I have read does
not always highlight them.
Thanks in advance
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil(at)clara.net> |
| Subject: | europa club members - late renewals |
I'm sad to report that 100 members of the Europa Club still have not
got around to renewing their subscriptions for 2003/2004.
Those who have not renewed by the end of May will be removed from the
membership roster and they will not receive the June "Europa Flyer".
I sent all the online members an e-mail reminder (customised with
their details) back in February, and every member had a renewal form
enclosed with the March EF. I want to give everyone in the Club the
best service (not to mention getting some time to build my own
aeroplane) but it's a drag on the resources if I have to keep chasing
people for money. Every year after the PFA Rally I do a paper
mail-shot (stuffing & sticking all the envelopes myself) to the
remaining defaulters and most of them renew then with profuse
apologies. However, it would be great if I didn't have to expend the
time and effort to chase them!
If you think you may have forgotten to renew, drop me an e-mail
(DON'T reply to the list - send it direct to
) and I'll let you know your status and how
you can renew if necessary.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (540 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail website
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Anderson" <Randerson(at)skewstacks.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Stade Fly In, June 14-15, 2003 (in English) |
Erich,
I hope to be able to take my Europa G-BXTD to your rally on the 14th
June, weather permitting. I will have a co-pilot with me and we would like
to join you for the dinner, and also to have a room for the night. One room
will do as long as it has single beds.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Roger.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eupa91(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Stade Fly In, June 14-15, 2003 (in English)
>
> Get Together of Europa Friends, Builders, and Flyers at the Stade Airfield
> (near Hamburg, Germany).
>
> We tried to pick the best conditions tried last year. Here are the
details:
>
> Date: 14.-15. Juni 2003
>
> Place: Stade Airfield N53 33.6 E009 29.9, 123.00 MHz, rw 11/29, circuit to
> the south, 1000 ft. Watch out for gliders, pedestriens, dogs, and motor
cars
> on or nearby the runway.
>
> We will provide for beverages and snacks at the airfield.
>
> Dinner: June 14, 2003 19 h at Gasthaus zur Tenne, Agathenburg (nearby, 8
to
> 10 Euro plus beverages)
>
> Accomodation: June 14.-15 2003: Gasthaus zur Tenne, Agathenburg. single
29,
> double 47, triple 61 Euro. I booked all beds in advance.
>
> Sign In: In order to permit proper preparation participants are kindly
> requested to sign in latest
>
> May 10, 2003
>
> including details on participation at the dinner and request for
accomodation
> to the address given below.
>
> All depending on VFR weather.
>
> A welcome to all from our N German Europa Chapter
>
> Erich Gabbe (Kit #91, still building)
> Eupa91(at)aol.com
> Hugo-Klemm-Str. 30
> 21075 Hamburg
> Germany
> Telef. +49-40-7925262
> Mob. +49-173-3523506
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stade Fly In, June 14-15, 2003 (in English) |
Roger,
welcome, all will be provided as requested.
Regards, Erich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Gladstone <Ted_Gladstone(at)COMPUSERVE.COM> |
>I am looking for something to hide the cut edges of material - - - -
Is there anyone out there who can suggest a
source,- - - -.
<
Have a look at :- www.woolies-trim.co.uk
Ted
G-ZTED
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum pump leaking |
In a message dated 5/8/2003 2:16:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, kheindl(at)msn.com
writes:
>
> I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump (on
> 912S). It is coming out of
> the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal between it
> and the gearbox. The pump
> was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have only
> done warmups and midrange
> rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external drive.
> Does
> it indicate something more
> sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ?
>
>
I had the same problem after the first few flights - I had to replace the oil
seal at the vacuum pump drive. It could be replaced without removing the
cover to the gear box.
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 914 fuel pressure |
In a message dated 5/8/2003 5:58:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fillinger(at)ameritech.net writes:
> Upon failure it's maybe 5 seconds 'til silence, and if early in
> climbout, I don't like the idea of dealing with even first an aural
> alarm by trying 2nd pump at a time where delay in setting up for forced
> landing can be bad. The FAA has an AC advising mfrs (other than
> airliners) how to deal with the requirement to meet specified failure
> probabilities in critical systems. Amazing how mere redundancy
> simplifies compliance!
>
>
I have a system that automatically starts the #2 pump if the #1 pump drops
below 1 psi. I would take off with this system in the "auto" mode. I am
running 3/8 inch aluminum tube for my return line, so I don't think there is
any restriction there. I continue to gather data on all of this.
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Proper height for baggage floor board |
Greetings all,
I've been working on my main gear which has spurred thought about the baggage
floor board bulkhead and the height at which it's mounted. The manual is
vague in this department and I can detect no trim lines on the rear bulkhead
of the cockpit module for reference, although there is one on the front of
the baggage bulkhead where it bonds to the CM. I'd like to give as much
height to the area as I can since my Lab Myrtle is likely going to ride back
there. Besides the battery, the pitch pushrod, and the upper part of the
bulkhead where it contacts the top are there any other considerations
regarding the height of the baggage bay floor?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 Leaning towards Jabiru for power.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Proper height for baggage floor board |
Just doing mine and fitted it temporarily to find dimensions of ply supports
and while in place marked my own reference lines with marker pen for rubbing
down before fitting finally. Rear of baggage bay clears pitch push rod by
3/4" at nearest point but is well supported by ply supports.
Regards Dave Park
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Static when refueling? |
>Static when refueling?
> As long as both are at
>the same potiential (voltage wise) then there will be no current flowing
>between them. The obvious way is to ground the truck to earth and ground
>the aircraft fuel system to earth ground. That keeps all partys in this
>equation equal.
I think that the problem may well be static charge generated when fuel
flows through a non conducting pipe. First it flows down the PE filler
moulding, then the moulded rubber section, (that may? conduct a little)
then into the insulated tank. At the same time it starts to flow up the
breather tube, usually also non conducting, first as vapour, then
splashing, often onto the fuselage top of Classics, air flow through the
1/4" tube has to be fast, finally as liquid. In the standard installation
the breather is not very far away from the filler, particularly in the
Classic. One Classic I know of caught fire from a static spark, right at
the end of the refuelling from a metal can. It was a hot dry day.
I would recommend that the breather pipe should be solid aluminium, 3/8"
dia. not 1/4 and that it, the filler cap assembly and the funnel or other
apparatus used to refuel should be kept grounded together. Paul McAllister
has a picture of the breather we developed on his web site I believe. This
diverts splashes back into the tank filler.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Static when refueling? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into the
tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I plan on
Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine ground. A
ground clip on the exhaust pipe when filling at the local FBO during
refueling should then be quite effective.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Singleton [mailto:graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk]
Subject: Europa-List: Static when refueling?
>Static when refueling?
> As long as both are at
>the same potiential (voltage wise) then there will be no current
flowing
>between them. The obvious way is to ground the truck to earth and
ground
>the aircraft fuel system to earth ground. That keeps all partys in
this
>equation equal.
I think that the problem may well be static charge generated when fuel
flows through a non conducting pipe. First it flows down the PE filler
moulding, then the moulded rubber section, (that may? conduct a little)
then into the insulated tank. At the same time it starts to flow up the
breather tube, usually also non conducting, first as vapour, then
splashing, often onto the fuselage top of Classics, air flow through the
1/4" tube has to be fast, finally as liquid. In the standard
installation
the breather is not very far away from the filler, particularly in the
Classic. One Classic I know of caught fire from a static spark, right at
the end of the refuelling from a metal can. It was a hot dry day.
I would recommend that the breather pipe should be solid aluminium, 3/8"
dia. not 1/4 and that it, the filler cap assembly and the funnel or
other
apparatus used to refuel should be kept grounded together. Paul
McAllister
has a picture of the breather we developed on his web site I believe.
This
diverts splashes back into the tank filler.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
Hello,
I get the distinct impression that (a) some of this static is due
to refuelling right after a flight, when the aircraft has stirred itself thru
the ether and built up a charge, (b) that the engine is still warm and the
wind on the nose is wafting tepid breezes past fuel vents and inetrnal features,
(c) that the main culprit is many times more effective from a plastic container
than a metal one and (d) if a spark from grounding wires is to be tolerated
it should be upwind of any fumes, like the exhaust stack.
cheers, Ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Calling David Cripps,
I am wondering if you have received any of my e-mails concerning Ampreg 22
in my Europa build? Anyone knowing how I can get in touch with him via
private e-mail, I'd appreciate it.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jean-philippe_neel(at)mail.schneider.fr |
22, 2000) at 12/05/2003 13:16:45,
MIME-CD complete at 12/05/2003 13:16:45,
Serialize by Router on ATEU0255.EUD.Schneider-Electric.com/T/SVR/Schneider(Release
5.0.9 |November 16, 2001) at 05/12/2003 01:12:16 PM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on AXEU0010.eud.schneider-electric.com/X/SVR/SEIxtra(Release
6.0.1|February 07, 2003) at 12/05/2003 13:15:27,
Serialize by Router on AXEU0010.eud.schneider-electric.com/X/SVR/SEIxtra(Release
6.0.1|February 07, 2003) at 12/05/2003 13:16:00,
Serialize complete at 12/05/2003 13:16:00
---------------------- Envoye par Jean-Philippe Neel/FR/Schneider le
12/05/2003 13:14 ---------------------------
Veuillez rpondre europa-list(at)matronics.com
Envoy par : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
Pour : europa-list(at)matronics.com
cc :
Objet : Europa-List: double mail
---------------------- Envoye par Jean-Philippe Neel/FR/Schneider le
28/04/2003 08:57 ---------------------------
Veuillez rpondre europa-list(at)matronics.com
Envoy par : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
Pour :
cc :
Objet : double mail
Bonjour
I receive every mail twice with the same adress from matronics
Could you please have a look on this problem and give me instructions if I
have some thing to do
Merci
JPN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
> I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into the
> tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I plan on
> Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine ground.
>
I don't think that will do anything. The sloshing of fuel against the
sides of nonconductive plastic container can accumulate a static charge
on the surface of the plastic - a capacitor. Fuel is bad enough of a
conductor (much worse than water) to function as the dielectric of a
capacitor. But enough of a dielectric relative to fuel-air vapor so that
a capacitance fuel probe works. If fuel were enough of a conductor to
prevent static buildup during refueling, then the probe wouldn't be just
a leaky capacitor, but a shorted one, and it wouldn't work at all!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Tony,
Don't know how quickly you expect reply, but David is in Canada at
the present and advertised a show somewhere soon so may be out of order for a
while.
Ferg
I forwarded your plea to his home address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw
To: david.cripps(at)spsystems.com ; europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:29 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 22
Calling David Cripps,
I am wondering if you have received any of my e-mails concerning Ampreg 22
in my Europa build? Anyone knowing how I can get in touch with him via
private e-mail, I'd appreciate it.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
> I would recommend that the breather pipe should be solid aluminium, 3/8"
> dia. not 1/4 and that it, the filler cap assembly and the funnel or other
> apparatus used to refuel should be kept grounded together.
That may be beneficial, but I'm not sure why. It will provide a
conductive path to the giant capacitor (the tank), but I wonder if
there'd be a greater hazard - anytime, not just in refueling - where
bringing one's hand near enough the metal fuel vent triggers a spark if
there's enough vapor there. At least there's nothing in FAA guidance
that fuel vents be conductive and grounded to airframe. In fact, they
imply the exact opposite with ref to lightning protection -- that a fuel
tank vent not be a conductive path to the fuel.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Static when refueling? |
| From: | "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> |
Good point.... I didn't think it through correctly. Maybe I can blame it
on a lack of a morning coffee. At least the filler cap ring (is it metal
on the optional metal filler cap?) would be connected to the engine
ground so one could use the exhaust pipe for the grounding lead,
allowing one to make the initial connection a good distance away from
any vapours. The area that the filler spout would be in contact with
would then be at the same potential. An external connection to the
filler cap ring would work just as well I guess based on your insightful
post.
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Fillinger [mailto:fillinger(at)ameritech.net]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static when refueling?
> I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into the
> tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I plan
on
> Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine ground.
>
I don't think that will do anything. The sloshing of fuel against the
sides of nonconductive plastic container can accumulate a static charge
on the surface of the plastic - a capacitor. Fuel is bad enough of a
conductor (much worse than water) to function as the dielectric of a
capacitor. But enough of a dielectric relative to fuel-air vapor so that
a capacitance fuel probe works. If fuel were enough of a conductor to
prevent static buildup during refueling, then the probe wouldn't be just
a leaky capacitor, but a shorted one, and it wouldn't work at all!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Thanks Fred, oh great Guru, :-))
Your right, but I wanted everything I could get to drain off any
charge.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
writes:
>
>
> > I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into
> the
> > tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I
> plan on
> > Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine
> ground.
> >
>
> I don't think that will do anything. The sloshing of fuel against
> the
> sides of nonconductive plastic container can accumulate a static
> charge
> on the surface of the plastic - a capacitor. Fuel is bad enough of
> a
> conductor (much worse than water) to function as the dielectric of a
>
> capacitor. But enough of a dielectric relative to fuel-air vapor so
> that
> a capacitance fuel probe works. If fuel were enough of a conductor
> to
> prevent static buildup during refueling, then the probe wouldn't be
> just
> a leaky capacitor, but a shorted one, and it wouldn't work at all!
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
The point for a grounding tab located just underneath the fuel filling
area on the belly, is convience. Along with the tab is both fuel
draining valves. If it is to much trouble to hookup a ground, then it
won't be done. By having a tab for grounding very close by and hooked up
before you open the system, there is less chance for problems. Keep it
convienent and it becomes good habit.
Jim Nelson
writes:
>
>
> Good point.... I didn't think it through correctly. Maybe I can
> blame it
> on a lack of a morning coffee. At least the filler cap ring (is it
> metal
> on the optional metal filler cap?) would be connected to the engine
> ground so one could use the exhaust pipe for the grounding lead,
> allowing one to make the initial connection a good distance away
> from
> any vapours. The area that the filler spout would be in contact
> with
> would then be at the same potential. An external connection to the
> filler cap ring would work just as well I guess based on your
> insightful
> post.
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Fillinger [mailto:fillinger(at)ameritech.net]
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static when refueling?
>
>
>
> > I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into
> the
> > tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I
> plan
> on
> > Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine
> ground.
> >
>
> I don't think that will do anything. The sloshing of fuel against
> the
> sides of nonconductive plastic container can accumulate a static
> charge
> on the surface of the plastic - a capacitor. Fuel is bad enough of
> a
> conductor (much worse than water) to function as the dielectric of a
>
> capacitor. But enough of a dielectric relative to fuel-air vapor so
> that
>
> a capacitance fuel probe works. If fuel were enough of a conductor
> to
> prevent static buildup during refueling, then the probe wouldn't be
> just
>
> a leaky capacitor, but a shorted one, and it wouldn't work at all!
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info> |
| Subject: | Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach (UK)? |
Hi All
Has any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach, who offers an interior
trimming service for Europas. I have a price list and a set of samples that
he provided to Dave Hunter at Kemble but no contact details.
Thanks
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Miles McCallum" <milesm(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
My understanding is that the major source of static potential comes from the
passage of the airframe through the air - so grounding the refuelling rig or
can to the area around the cap (before taking it off) - and giving it time
for the charge to dissapate - is all that is required. In an extreme case,
wiping it down with a damp rag helps too.
The fuel air mixture inside the tank is much too rich to support
combustion - something once proved to me by a total manic, who demonstrated
it by flicking lighted matches into the filler on a car. (second time
around, everyone hit he deck....)
Miles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gavin and Anne" <gavanne(at)onetel.net.uk> |
| Subject: | Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach (UK)? |
Try 01872 571724.......I've just ordered a kit off him for myself...
Cheers
Gavin Lee.........#355
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Lawless
Subject: Europa-List: Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach (UK)?
Hi All
Has any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach, who offers an interior
trimming service for Europas. I have a price list and a set of samples
that
he provided to Dave Hunter at Kemble but no contact details.
Thanks
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops(at)verizon.net> |
"Tony Krzyzewski"
| Subject: | Profiling & Filling Wings |
Hi Tony K.-
Tony, could you elaborate a bit on how you are profiling the filler strips
on your classic wings? Are you actually using an airfoil profile pattern or
something simple like a spline and straightedges? I'm not looking forward
to doing this job, but would like to benefit as much as possible from those
whom have gone before!
Thanks!
Pops
A036
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when refueling? |
>
> Thanks Fred, oh great Guru, :-))
> Your right, but I wanted everything I could get to drain off any
> charge.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
Your point is not invalid, as I just looked up (which gurus wouldn't
need to do!). FAA says that conductive things exposed to fuel inside
nonconductive tanks do shorten the time for self-discharge to naturally
occur. However, it's insufficient to prevent buildup during refueling.
Where fuel is being sent down a filler pipe, the preventative measure
is merely large pipe to reduce flow velocity.
However, lightning protection is important also, and one method to
obtain certification of composite aircraft is total electrical isolation
of the tank. The means no electrical fuel level senders, metal vent
lines which terminate in a conductive something extending from the
airframe, grounding wires, or even a metal fuel line which is grounded
or within arcing distance of electrical wiring or control systems. This
also can mean the filler opening too (which should be grounded of
course), where there is a run of filler pipe to the tank, but a
suggested solution is to interrupt conductive pipe with section(s) of
nonconductive hose. Since aircraft are refueled far more often than
exposed to lighting strikes, I guess what they're saying is that static
inside the tank is harmless in fueling operations. Mixture's just too
rich in normal ambient temps -- well discussed in gov't report on the
tank explosion on TWA 800.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info> |
| Subject: | Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach (UK)? |
Thanks will call him tomorrow.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gavin and
Anne
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach
(UK)?
Try 01872 571724.......I've just ordered a kit off him for myself...
Cheers
Gavin Lee.........#355
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Lawless
Subject: Europa-List: Any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach (UK)?
Hi All
Has any one got a phone number for Matthew Leach, who offers an interior
trimming service for Europas. I have a price list and a set of samples
that
he provided to Dave Hunter at Kemble but no contact details.
Thanks
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Ferg,
Thanks for the info.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
>
>Tony,
> Don't know how quickly you expect reply, but David is in Canada
>at the present and advertised a show somewhere soon so may be out of order
>for a while.
>Ferg
>I forwarded your plea to his home address.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Renshaw
> To: david.cripps(at)spsystems.com ; europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:29 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 22
>
>
> Calling David Cripps,
> I am wondering if you have received any of my e-mails concerning Ampreg 22
> in my Europa build? Anyone knowing how I can get in touch with him via
> private e-mail, I'd appreciate it.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Static when Refuelling re Braid |
Fred,
Below is a message either of mine, or one that sounds very similar. So, I am
unsure where you are going with this, in terms of other options that you are
not mentioning in this e-mail. So, how do you propose I do it to mitigate this
static issue. Don't misinterpret my "straight to the point" but I have been
under a thunderstorm autocoupled to 200' and I am a bit lacking in my usual
tact. Any help is kindly appreciated, but I did buy the tinned copper braid
today, and after reading your message I don't know what to do with it.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
>
>> I plan also on putting a metal braid down the filler opening into the
>> tank and connecting to Graham's aluminum tank outlet fitting. I plan on
>> Alum pipe runs which will ultimately be grounded to the engine ground.
>>
>
>I don't think that will do anything. The sloshing of fuel against the
>sides of nonconductive plastic container can accumulate a static charge
>on the surface of the plastic - a capacitor. Fuel is bad enough of a
>conductor (much worse than water) to function as the dielectric of a
>capacitor. But enough of a dielectric relative to fuel-air vapor so that
>a capacitance fuel probe works. If fuel were enough of a conductor to
>prevent static buildup during refueling, then the probe wouldn't be just
>a leaky capacitor, but a shorted one, and it wouldn't work at all!
>
>Regards,
>Fred F.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Tony,
I will be in contact with him as he may find time to visit.
Do you want me to get him in touch with you? - or will I mention it at all?
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw
Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 22
Ferg,
Thanks for the info.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
>
>Tony,
> Don't know how quickly you expect reply, but David is in Canada
>at the present and advertised a show somewhere soon so may be out of order
>for a while.
>Ferg
>I forwarded your plea to his home address.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Renshaw
> To: david.cripps(at)spsystems.com ; europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:29 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 22
>
>
>
> Calling David Cripps,
> I am wondering if you have received any of my e-mails concerning Ampreg
22
> in my Europa build? Anyone knowing how I can get in touch with him via
> private e-mail, I'd appreciate it.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
I have just heard that a Europa friend,( for whose flying skills, knowledge and
judgement I have the greatest respect,) is contemplating investing in survival
suits for cross channel trips. While I would not want to seem critical of anyone's
attempts to do their best for their own and their loved one's safety, I
fear there is a down side to this and thus felt it worth raising for discussion.
My wife (and a number of other Europa ladies I know what of), is not
entirely convinced about the wisdom of flying in any small plane, with any
sort of pilot. I can imagine that , when/if I eventually persuade her that a trip
to the continent would be endurable, even delightful and of course safe, that
if we turn up at Lydd or wherever to find the next Europa crew donning survival
suits, it will be enough to see her on to the next train home!
This friend I may say spends most of his time flying round the world
with four engines, and probably with the rest of those who haven't been clever
enough, lucky enough or disciplined enough to persuade someone to pay us to
do likewise, I suspect that this superfluity of engines at his workplace has
warped his judgement!
I would be the last to pretend it is not PD cold in British waters
- I have absolutely refused to swim in them without a wetsuit since my early twenties.However
from 5000 ft my measured best glide angle of 1-12 with prop windmilling
(significantly better if prop stopped) gives a glide range of near 12
miles. In fact immediately pulling back to convert a cruise speed of 120kt to
a glide speed of 75kt yields an extra 385 ft which takes the glide range over
12 miles, but that's simply being pernickety!
On my two O/R trips via S'hampton - Cherbourg last year there were
never less than 20 boats in sight, and landing alongside one capable of stopping
in less than 5 miles would not have been a challenge. In last week's Europa
Club trip to Ireland we did Blackpool-Belfast direct and S.E Ireland to St Davids
direct. There were not so many boats in the Irish Sea but nevertheless
landing close to a boat, an oilrig or on land was always easily possible. On top
of that we all had liferafts, and if I was unlucky enough to have engine failure
in the middle of nautical nowhere, combined with communication failure
or search failure, I would prefer my chances of long term survival in a dinghy
rather than bobbing around in a survival suit. Have I missed something?
Musing on this has made me wonder whether the Europa Club should not
act as a directory of those who like me have a dinghy and would be perfectly
happy to lend it to another Europa pilot. May your engines never stop! David
Joyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid |
> Below is a message either of mine, or one that sounds very
> similar. So, I am unsure where you are going with this, in
> terms of other options that you are not mentioning in this
> e-mail. So, how do you propose I do it to mitigate this
> static issue. Don't misinterpret my "straight to the point"
> but I have been under a thunderstorm autocoupled to 200' and
> I am a bit lacking in my usual tact. Any help is kindly
> appreciated, but I did buy the tinned copper braid today, and
> after reading your message I don't know what to do with it.
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
amount of energy to ignite fuel is so low that a hazard exists with
relatively minor discharges, such as corona discharges and streamers,
they say. Lightning has the choice, if not both, of flowing in the
control system or along wiring, so terminating latter inside the tank is
not good at all. An encounter which may only take out something
electrical or stiffen up a rod-end bearing can be catastrophic.
Realistically, though, it's more of a problem for IFR flight.
I had an real encounter (alum airplane), in cloud on the last vector to
intercept the localizer for a 300-3/4 ILS approach; bright flash and
funny atmosphere inside the cabin. It did no airframe damage per later
inspection, but took out only xmit in the comms. ATC knows what to then
do, and it was interesting how the IFR rule book says you do certain
things in lost comm, but in that circumstance and in radar contact, they
really want you to do the obvious as the LOC needle begins to center.
Even if it would have been nice to first go somewhere to relax a while
after the strike, as if IMC, lost comm, no autopilot, and convective
weather made that even thinkable!
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu(at)pcocd2.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid |
May 14, 2003 11:25:07 am"
> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required! A
great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to the
turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill pipe.
There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is flowed
between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap between
the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the close
contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of fuel.
The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the filling point,
where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the center of the
tank has too rich a mixture.
> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning problem?
Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence which tend
to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from thunderstorms and
associated weather.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 |
am"
Let's not make this any more complicated than necessary folks. What MUST be
done is to ground the aluminum filler neck to prevent sparking from the fuel
filler nozzle, and to install a conductor (the braid meets this requirement)
from the filler neck to the bottom of the tank. Nothing else matters.
See "How Do I Work Safely with Flammable and Combustible Liquids? (Static
Electricity)" at
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/prevention/flammable_static.html for an
excellent discussion of this, and near the bottom of the page there is
specific advice about filling non-conductive containers (like the Europa's
fuel tank).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Rauchfuss - PCD
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003
11:25:07 am"
> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required! A
great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to the
turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill pipe.
There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is flowed
between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap between
the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the close
contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of fuel.
The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the filling point,
where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the center of
the
tank has too rich a mixture.
> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning problem?
Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence which
tend
to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from thunderstorms and
associated weather.
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 |
am"
>>That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
>>ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
>>charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
>
> It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required!
> A great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to
> the turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the
> refill pipe.
> The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the
> close contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity
> of fuel. The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near
> the filling point, where the mixture can be low enough to support
> combustion - the center of the tank has too rich a mixture.
Could be, but the clearest technical discussion (by the SAAA) of the
above wire in a nonconductive pipe that I can find says the transfer of
charge is too slow to accomplish much. FAA by implication concurs.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Survival suits |
Although David has not spoken to me about this it sounds like I am the
person to which he is referring. He will be pleased to know that these days
I make do with 2 engines in my work. However I am still
very much of the opinion (as is SEMS the survival equipment company) that
survival suits are well worth the investment.
This was reinforced recently
when I talked to another professional pilot who had actually ditched in the
English channel only 2 miles from the Isle of Wight. This event happened in
October, one of the warmest months of the year for water temperature in the
channel. He had a lifejacket and a dinghy. The aircraft sank in two minutes
and the regularly serviced liferaft failed to inflate. Luckily for him the
D&D cell got a secondary radar fix on him although he was below 2000ft due
to a restricted cloudbase (fairly common over the English Channel). The
helicopter by chance was already airborne and found him in only 35 minutes
using their thermal imaging camera. In that short time he was suffering
badly from hypothermia and had to remain in hospital for two days to
recover. He was told that he was very lucky as another 15 to 20 minutes
would have been enough to kill him. As the CAA ditching leaflet says,
ditching is a rare occurrence but although 85% survive the ditching itself
only 50% of those survive the subsequent hypothermia.
I don't intend to compromise my safety (and that of my passenger) just to
encourage a nervous flyer. In any event I assume
that David will be briefing his passenger on ditching before embarking on
cross channel flights. As shown by many
accidents careful prebriefing is important to improve one's chances in the
unlikely event.
A nervous passenger may be put off just by being asked to wear a lifejacket
so is this going to be dispensed with as well?
This was never intended to be a discussion topic As far as I am concerned I
just want to take simple precautions and don't have any criticisms if others
wish to do differently. Each to their own.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
Nigel, Thanks for your reply. I do hope my message has not caused any offence.
I really do feel that it is a subject that merits discussion, and I hope others
will join in.
It would not be surprising of course if a Survival Equipment firm thought
it a good idea for folk to buy survival kit.
I assume that your friend was flying something a bit less seaworthy than
a Europa, and find it difficult to imagine that a Europa would sink in 2 mins
unless you hit the water so hard that you knocked the wings off, in which
case you would probably be beyond worrying about sinking.
The figures for only 50% surviving the ditching are widely quoted, but
do you have the detail? How many of these were in mid Ocean, or polar waters
rather than the Channel? How many were in light aircraft equippped with a dinghy?
It would be nice to know what the figures are for the sort of situation we
are equipping ourselves for, rather than world figures that no doubt include
people flying in the vilest conditions (which may have triggered the ditching)
in totally inhospitable places. Regards, David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
Fred and co,
Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead down
during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
the best optioin, and if not, what are you doing or going to do with your a/c?
As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash point,
volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to worry, but what
if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
>
>
>
>> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
>> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
>> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
>
>It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required! A
>great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to the
>turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill pipe.
>There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is flowed
>between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap between
>the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
>
>The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the close
>contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of fuel.
>The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the filling point,
>where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the center of the
>tank has too rich a mixture.
>
>> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
>
>Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning problem?
>Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence which tend
>to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from thunderstorms and
>associated weather.
>
>Brian
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Braid In, Fuel In / Inflight Braid Out???? |
Fred and co,
Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead down
during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
the best optioin, and if not, what are you doing or going to do with your a/c?
As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash point,
volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to worry, but what
if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
> Fred and co,
>
> Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead down
> during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
> the best optioin, and if not, what are you doing or going to do with your a/c?
> As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash point,
> volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to worry, but what
> if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
I have 914.
A wire braid connected to a metal fuel opening does nothing where safe
fueling practices aren't followed - bond grounded filler opening to fuel
source, source metal tank to earth also. I think we first need just one
documented case where a fire still occurred despite safe practices,
which would be solely from static downstream of the filler opening.
FAA says one fix is to make a filler pipe big. Appears to me Europa did
that, with restriction as it enters tank, reducing flow velocity in the
pipe to a small value. The Mk 1 is fat one; the distance on the XS
design is short.
In fact, does Europa now say to ground the metal filler opening? Didn't
originally.
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | EIS Coolant connection |
I have the model 2000 EIS from Grand Rapids and a coolant probe which came
as a kit from
Skydrive.
I now discover that the coolant temperature is not being indicated. It shows
15 (C) permanently.
I have only one wire from the probe going to pin 24. What am I doing wrong?
Cheers, Karl
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
I am sure this topic must have been covered to death, but I am again reading
a PFA circular from
2001 which quotes that the tank temperature must not exceed 20 C, and the
altitude must be
below 6000 feet. Not much use for anyone flying in the Denver area.
I don't want to use Avgas because it just opens up another can of worms and
is a lot more
expensive. My engine is 912S.
Any comments, anyone ?
Cheers, Karl
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Seaver <terrys(at)cisco.com> |
Hi Karl,
We have been flying N135TD for two years, 250 hours, on MoGas (mostly). We
occasionally use AvGas when on trips, where MoGas is not available. We fly out
of Livermore, California, which is near sea level, with temps as high as 40 C.
We regularly fly over the Sierra Nevada mountain range at altitudes in excess of
13,000 feet, and fly in and out of fields 4,000 feet and above on days with
temps up to 40 C.
We have an XS with 912S, with the Europa standard fuel return mechanism. We
have had two problems we suspect are due to the volatility of MoGas, as follows:
1) We have had warm start problems we believe are caused by fuel boiling in the
carb float bowls. This is improved by shutting off our Skydrive carb heat before
taxiing back from landing (I strongly recommend carb heat for the 912S with XS
cowl), and by opening the coolant inspection door in the cowl after engine
shutdown.
2) We believe we have had vapor lock right after takeoff, only following a warm
start, and only in the winter time (more volatiles in the winter formulations of
MoGas?). The roughness goes away a lower throttle settings, and usually clears
out after a while. We may have that cured now with some additional fuel system
insulation under the cowl, but won't be sure until next winter.
regards,
Terry Seaver
KARL HEINDL wrote:
>
> I am sure this topic must have been covered to death, but I am again reading
> a PFA circular from
> 2001 which quotes that the tank temperature must not exceed 20 C, and the
> altitude must be
> below 6000 feet. Not much use for anyone flying in the Denver area.
> I don't want to use Avgas because it just opens up another can of worms and
> is a lot more
> expensive. My engine is 912S.
>
> Any comments, anyone ?
>
> Cheers, Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
>It would not be surprising of course if a Survival Equipment firm thought
it a good idea for folk to buy survival kit.<
Yes, however they could have easily used the situation to advise the
purchase of a dinghy instead, making them even more money. Their advice was
that if you are only going to buy a dinghy or survival suits then the best
option is survival suits. You know they are going to work. They also point
out that in some ditching cases it was not possible to get the dinghy out of
the aircraft in time.
> I assume that your friend was flying something a bit less
seaworthy than a Europa, and find it difficult to imagine that a Europa
would sink in 2 mins unless you hit the water so hard that you knocked the
wings off, in which case you would probably be beyond worrying about
sinking.<
Quite right but having done sea survival training I can assure you that in
anything other than flat calm coping with the survival tasks is not as
straightforward as it seems. It is quite possible for a wing to dig into a
wave on touchdown and be ripped off. The fuselage could then easily fill
with water whilst tipped on its side. Escaping from a semi submerged
fuselage in a typical English Channel swell could be awkward enough let
alone removing the dinghy and inflating it. Although my Classic Europa has
foam wings the XS does not and there is no guarantee that it will remain
afloat once the wings have filled with water assuming they were still
attached.
>The figures for only 50% surviving the ditching are widely quoted, but do
you have the detail? How many of these were in mid Ocean, or polar waters
rather than the Channel? How many were in light aircraft equipped with a
dinghy? It would be nice to know what the figures are for the sort of
situation we are equipping ourselves for, rather than world figures that no
doubt include people flying in the vilest conditions (which may have
triggered the ditching) in totally inhospitable places. <
I have no further info on this but it is interesting that a fit adult
immersed in the English Channel for 35 minutes at the best time of year was
not far from expiring. This is bad enough without considering worse
scenarios.
Finally I did not raise this issue on the forum. If David wishes to just
use a liferaft then that is fine by me. I am happy with my decision. I am
sure others will make their own judgements on this topic.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EIS Coolant connection |
| From: | Gerald Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com> |
on 5/15/03 8:29 AM, KARL HEINDL at kheindl(at)msn.com wrote:
>
>
> I have the model 2000 EIS from Grand Rapids and a coolant probe which came
> as a kit from
> Skydrive.
> I now discover that the coolant temperature is not being indicated. It shows
> 15 (C) permanently.
> I have only one wire from the probe going to pin 24. What am I doing wrong?
>
> Cheers, Karl
>
> Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
>
>
>
>
>
>
Some have a second wire from the probe that goes to ground. Regards Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Tony,
Put the braid in the system with a weight on the end to keep it
in place. If it doesn't help , it won't hurt either. Just one of those
things I felt I can do with rather than without. With out getting
bonkers, little things like that may help. I'll take my chances on using
the braid along with all the other points I have hooked up.
(BTW I grossed out at 890# with my full panel and extra alternator,
rudder electric trim ect.)
Jim Nelson
N15JN
writes:
>
>
> Fred and co,
>
> Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the
> lead down
> during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree
> that is
> the best optioin, and if not, what are you doing or going to do with
> your a/c?
> As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash
> point,
> volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to
> worry, but what
> if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to
> electrical
> >> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
>
> >> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
> >
> >It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is
> required! A
> >great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to
> the
> >turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill
> pipe.
> >There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is
> flowed
> >between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap
> between
> >the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
> >
> >The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the
> close
> >contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of
> fuel.
> >The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the
> filling point,
> >where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the
> center of the
> >tank has too rich a mixture.
> >
> >> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite
> A/C. The
> >
> >Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning
> problem?
> >Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence
> which tend
> >to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from
> thunderstorms and
> >associated weather.
> >
> >Brian
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EIS Coolant connection |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Karl,
You did provide a ground for the thermocouple didn't you ???
I've done that when I installed my big alternator and did not provide a
good (big) ground to the engine mounting frame. After that it worked
great. Just like if you remote the oil sender. You must ground the body
or it won't work. I remoted it to keep the vibration failures
nonexistent. Early oil senders failed with engine vibration. Check
other aircraft and see that they mount the oil pressure sender, fuel
pressure sender ect. on a manifold bolted to the fire wall and separate
from the engine.
Jim Nelson
writes:
>
>
> I have the model 2000 EIS from Grand Rapids and a coolant probe
> which came
> as a kit from
> Skydrive.
> I now discover that the coolant temperature is not being indicated.
> It shows
> 15 (C) permanently.
> I have only one wire from the probe going to pin 24. What am I doing
> wrong?
>
> Cheers, Karl
>
> Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tunnel Cable Guides |
I have the rudder cables connected to the rudder pedals as per plans. The
cables run straight from the CS21s to the cable pulleys. They skim the walls
and clear everything. I put the gear with wheel and brake on, and retracted,
still the cables clear. If I build the cable guides per plans the cables will
rub on the blocks and rub on the walls in several places. (it's the walls
that are the problem) I think I'm going to keep the cable straight and not
have the cables pulled outwards. The guides will be only 5 mm taller, I can't
think of anything that will rub on or hit them later on. I'm I missing
something?
Thanks,
SteveD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
>We have had warm start problems we believe are caused by fuel boiling in
the
carb float bowls. This is improved by shutting off our Skydrive carb heat
before
taxiing back from landing (I strongly recommend carb heat for the 912S with
XS
cowl), and by opening the coolant inspection door in the cowl after engine
shutdown.<
It is interesting to note that fuel temperature just short of the port carb
will regularly reach 40degC after shutdown even in UK summer temperatures.
If a short turnaround is planned cooling can be aided by leaving the
inspection hatches open in the top cowl. Just remember to close them before
departure. If they are held fully open they should be visible during taxi if
they have been forgotten.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Steve,
While it's obviously OK in the workshop, I would be a bit nervous about the effect
of turbulent airflow in flight. Unless both feet are on the pedals, the cable
tension is only as strong as the springs and it seems possible to me (on the
basis of zero Europa flying experience!) that you could end up with the cable
hooked over the brake as you were lowering or raising the gear. Not a good
thing to happen. I know both feet would normally be on the pedals in such a situation
but no sense in creating a hazard if you don't have to -- you don't get
a lot of thinking time.
If you think this is valid, one possibility might be to keep them as you have them
but to add some sort of bracket either side of the tunnel abreast the wheel,
with a loosely fitting guide to steady the cable. I ended up running the cable
in nyloflow tubing between the pulleys and the pedal cross-bar for this reason
(and because I share your dislike of the standard solution).
Best regards,
Nick
Original Message:
-----------------
From: ScramIt(at)aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Tunnel Cable Guides
I have the rudder cables connected to the rudder pedals as per plans. The
cables run straight from the CS21s to the cable pulleys. They skim the walls
and clear everything. I put the gear with wheel and brake on, and retracted,
still the cables clear. If I build the cable guides per plans the cables will
rub on the blocks and rub on the walls in several places. (it's the walls
that are the problem) I think I'm going to keep the cable straight and not
have the cables pulled outwards. The guides will be only 5 mm taller, I can't
think of anything that will rub on or hit them later on. I'm I missing
something?
Thanks,
SteveD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
Am Freitag, 16. Mai 2003 03:02 schrieben Sie:
>
> Tony,
> Put the braid in the system with a weight on the end to keep it
> in place. ........... snip
Would an electrical connection between the aluminum filler ring and both
fuel-outlets (and from there to the engine block) not be enough?
This is what I did on D-EUPA.
Norbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Runnymede73(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Survival suits |
chances are that the europa will float after ditching
probably nose down and pivoting on the wings
my grob type (grp/carbon motor glider) did just that
off the scillies. towed to the islands 10+ miles
washed out refurbed and now flying again with a new
engine and instruments
bill dewey G-UILD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
>Fred and co,
>
>Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead down
>during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
>the best optioin
Tony
I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler moulding,
get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then ground the elbow with
every other metal bit, including of course the filler cap.
I don't feel happy about copper braid rattling around in the pipes. A few
years down the airways bits may start dropping into the fuel. I know your
gascolator will catch them but not everyone has an Andair.
BTW are you still current on small aircraft? Or have you sold the Victa?
You need to find an excuse to go flying with Kathy McLure!
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Diesel volatility |
>As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash point,
>volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to worry, but what
>if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
Trouble with Diesel, or more particularly Avtur, is that the fuel air
mixture in the tank may well be explosive whereas with Mogas and Avgas the
mixture is too rich to ignite.
It is thought by some that we should ventilate the tank to get the mixture
down below flammability. (Certainly in 747s and the like where they do have
possible ignition sources inside the tank.)
Using -6 Versatube for the in and out sections, blowing air in to the
normal breather connection and out from one of the other tank connector NPT
holes will provide some ventilation but whether it's enough I don't know.
Wilksch recommends it anyway. IMHO the risk is relatively low with no
electrical connections inside the tank. One should perhaps use either a
pressure transducer or Jerry Davis' floating magnet/reed switch device for
contents indication. Or indeed a sight gauge {:-)
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides |
Steve,
As Nick and many others I have the clear nylon tubes (from ACS or some
hardware stores) from
in front of the firewall to the pulleys, p-clipped to the tunnel sides. That
way there is no interferenc
anywhere. I have the tirgear and am using the tunnel with floor window also
for baggage.
Regards, Karl
>From: "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides
>Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:21:54 +0930
>
>
>
>Steve,
>
>While it's obviously OK in the workshop, I would be a bit nervous about the
>effect of turbulent airflow in flight. Unless both feet are on the pedals,
>the cable tension is only as strong as the springs and it seems possible to
>me (on the basis of zero Europa flying experience!) that you could end up
>with the cable hooked over the brake as you were lowering or raising the
>gear. Not a good thing to happen. I know both feet would normally be on
>the pedals in such a situation but no sense in creating a hazard if you
>don't have to -- you don't get a lot of thinking time.
>
>If you think this is valid, one possibility might be to keep them as you
>have them but to add some sort of bracket either side of the tunnel abreast
>the wheel, with a loosely fitting guide to steady the cable. I ended up
>running the cable in nyloflow tubing between the pulleys and the pedal
>cross-bar for this reason (and because I share your dislike of the standard
>solution).
>
>Best regards,
>
>Nick
>
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: ScramIt(at)aol.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Tunnel Cable Guides
>
>
>I have the rudder cables connected to the rudder pedals as per plans. The
>cables run straight from the CS21s to the cable pulleys. They skim the
>walls
>and clear everything. I put the gear with wheel and brake on, and
>retracted,
>still the cables clear. If I build the cable guides per plans the cables
>will
>rub on the blocks and rub on the walls in several places. (it's the walls
>that are the problem) I think I'm going to keep the cable straight and not
>have the cables pulled outwards. The guides will be only 5 mm taller, I
>can't
>think of anything that will rub on or hit them later on. I'm I missing
>something?
>Thanks,
>SteveD.
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
I have a spare 1.5 turn Winter ASI (20-160kts) available. I bought it believing
that my Vne would be 150kts. Having done the weight increase mod I found I needed
an ASI to cater for the increased Vne of 165kts. Europas with a MTOW of 1300lb
have a Vne of 150kts. This ASI fits a standard 3.125" hole. Never used.
New Winter ASI's cost about =A3180. I am looking to sell at =A390 or $140 or 130Euro.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
For what its worth here is my input.
I have a survival suit and wore it last year when crossing the Irish
Caernarfon to Dublin 70 nautical miles. I was advised that around may
survival time without a Immersions suit was less than 10 mins. With a suit
it should be nearer an hour. Given that the odds of been rescued in 10 mins
were very low, but the odds of rescue in one hour were better I bought the
suit.
I didn't have the Europa at the time it was a Rallye. The ground temp in
Caernarfon was about 26 deg.
To be honest wearing the suit was a big danger!
The sun on the Perspex canopy turned the Rallye in to a green house. The
temp in the cabin was far too warm and although my passenger was comfortable
(without a suite) I was probably close to passing out at times. This was not
helped by the tight neck and wrist seals which you get with theses suits.
When I landed I was very relieved. I undid the zip and run my hands across
my t-shirt. I knocked of about 5 litres of sweat.
I didn't wear the suit on the way back.
I have crossed the Irish sea twice and channel once since and NO I HAVENT
worn the suit again.
I have thought a lot about it and as daft as it seams one reason for not
wearing it is I feel guilty I don't have one for my passenger.
Silly thing is when ever I set out over water I think is this the time I
should have worn it.
However my major concern is landing on the sea without the under cart
(trigear) flipping me over. This was a discussion point on the micro group
and when I flew a flex over water my action plan was to jump before the flex
hit the water.
I now have a CT and because its easier to exit than the Europa I have
planned to do that. Maybe wrongly?
My plan is full flap, in to wind, get it near the stall open door and jump.
It stalls about 34kts so a little slower than a Europa in fairness.
I am surprised to read about the expectation of the Europa to float. My
assumption with any plane was once it touched the water it would go do and
pretty dam quick.
As for debating the issue I think its a dam fine Idea. Any ideas and
documented cases would help to make an informed decision.
As for me if I try the Immersion suit again it will be either on a flexwing
or on a cool day next time.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel
Charles
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Survival
>It would not be surprising of course if a Survival Equipment firm thought
it a good idea for folk to buy survival kit.<
Yes, however they could have easily used the situation to advise the
purchase of a dinghy instead, making them even more money. Their advice was
that if you are only going to buy a dinghy or survival suits then the best
option is survival suits. You know they are going to work. They also point
out that in some ditching cases it was not possible to get the dinghy out of
the aircraft in time.
> I assume that your friend was flying something a bit less
seaworthy than a Europa, and find it difficult to imagine that a Europa
would sink in 2 mins unless you hit the water so hard that you knocked the
wings off, in which case you would probably be beyond worrying about
sinking.<
Quite right but having done sea survival training I can assure you that in
anything other than flat calm coping with the survival tasks is not as
straightforward as it seems. It is quite possible for a wing to dig into a
wave on touchdown and be ripped off. The fuselage could then easily fill
with water whilst tipped on its side. Escaping from a semi submerged
fuselage in a typical English Channel swell could be awkward enough let
alone removing the dinghy and inflating it. Although my Classic Europa has
foam wings the XS does not and there is no guarantee that it will remain
afloat once the wings have filled with water assuming they were still
attached.
>The figures for only 50% surviving the ditching are widely quoted, but do
you have the detail? How many of these were in mid Ocean, or polar waters
rather than the Channel? How many were in light aircraft equipped with a
dinghy? It would be nice to know what the figures are for the sort of
situation we are equipping ourselves for, rather than world figures that no
doubt include people flying in the vilest conditions (which may have
triggered the ditching) in totally inhospitable places. <
I have no further info on this but it is interesting that a fit adult
immersed in the English Channel for 35 minutes at the best time of year was
not far from expiring. This is bad enough without considering worse
scenarios.
Finally I did not raise this issue on the forum. If David wishes to just
use a liferaft then that is fine by me. I am happy with my decision. I am
sure others will make their own judgements on this topic.
Nigel Charles
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <europa(at)nimbus.geog.ox.ac.uk> |
> I am surprised to read about the expectation of the Europa to float. My
> assumption with any plane was once it touched the water it would go do and
> pretty dam quick.
My thoughts on this (for what it's worth), I agree that the Europa will
(probably) float, but that's only with the wings on. What are the chances
of an ideal landing on 4ft waves *and* keeping both wings on? I wouldn't
put money on it, especially when we're talking about the English coast or
near by.
Cheers,
Mark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
I have done a bit of searching round the topic. The Air Accident Invest Board site
searched for Ditching gives some interesting info:
In the 10 reports produced there was no incident where anyone with a lifejacket
ditched in a controlled way and did not survive. A PA28 ditched off Guernsey
with two pax wearing life jackets and pilot without. The plane floated
long enough for them to get out on to the wing, inflate the dinghy and for the
pilot to go back into the plane to get all his kit into the dinghy. He ditched
with flaps down and gear up.
A Robin however with fixed gear flipped over on landing. This was a night
flight which would not have helped, but it could just be that in among these
two incidents there is a fringe message to add to the mono vs trigear debate!
Neither pilot was wearing the life jacket available in the aircraft, and while
one swam to shore the other apparently took off in the wrong direction and
drowned.
They give a graph for 'Likely Survival Time for a Relatively Thin Person
in Calm Water with no Liferaft'. This compares survival with just lightweight
summer clothing and a survival suit with trousers, long johns, shirt and
heavy pullover. This doesn't seem a totally equable comparison, but does make
the point that the insulation qualities of the survival suit depend on you wearing
thick clothing underneath it, which from Kevin's account is not too attractive
a proposition. They give the following survival times:
At 5 deg C - S. suit 1 hr 50mins; summer cloths 50 mins.
At 10 deg C - S suit 3 hrs; summer cloths 1 hr
The sea temp in the Channel and Irish Sea at present according to Ant Veals weather
site is around 12 deg C. I haven't got temps for mid winter but it is difficult
to imagine it will be below 5 deg. Kevins acdvice about survival times
in the Irish Sea in May clearly came from a different hymn sheet than the AAIB
one. In all the AAIB comment and discussion I have waded through there is heavy
emphasis on having user friendly lifejackets, and always wearing them, and
talk also about dinghies but no mention of the desirability of Survival Suits.
In relation to the question of flipping over or trying to jump out sooner it is worth saying that the guys in the Robin got out without trouble from the upturned plane, and I think I would prefer my chances of doing that (as long as I had a good four point harness) rather than risking being clobbered by some part of the plane while jumping out, or misjudging the timing and having it land on top of you or immediately in front. I am also not sure that hitting a wave at 40 kts would be a pleasant experience, and it might just be enough to tear your life jacket off. The AAIB detailed one instance where the guy only had a lap strap, hit the water at speed and had head injuries which stopped him getting out. The website for anyone interested is www.aaib.dft.gov.uk Regards, David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
> ...but I am again reading a PFA circular from 2001 which quotes
> that the tank temperature must not exceed 20 C, and the altitude
> must be below 6000 feet.
> Cheers, Karl
And Saturn must not be aligned with Mars. :-) Those numbers look
consistent with saying high-RVP fuel, if maintained below that
temp/altitude combination, cannot be made to vapor lock.
However, with that kind of limitation, and even if FAA inexplicably
approved, there would be no market for the resulting STCs. Much of the
STC testing on low-wing types took place in Nevada and Arizona.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
David,
I think you have a point and my theory of jumping from the flex wing maybe
ought not to be carried over to the 3 axis.
I always considered that if I did land on water I would do my best to stall
it on and risk a heavy flop rather than flipping over from forward momentum.
Interesting information you bring to the forum and my thanks for that. Looks
like the info I was given was probably more negative on survival time than
it needed to be.
Last year when we had a mass flex wing crossing of the Irish sea I tried to
contact the RNLI several times via email to no avail.
The channel doesn't concern me so much due to the reasonably short distance
and the ships there are plenty to pick one up.
As for the Irish sea well that feels a lonely place with not so many. Due to
the D201 Dublin ATC lack of help and the general poor radio coverage between
Caernarfon and Dublin I probably wont go that route again in future.
I have now fitted a Transponder to my aircraft as I got fed up of not been
allowed service because I have no transponder.
On that issue when returning from France recently I was refused FIS for the
channel crossing return leg because I didn't have a transponder. They told
me they wouldn't activate a flight plan and I should call London Info. Not
much help when you are near Abbeville. I managed to activate my plan about
one third of the way across which wouldn't have been much help had I have
gone down as no one knew I was there.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
Subject: Europa-List: Survival
I have done a bit of searching round the topic. The Air Accident Invest
Board site searched for Ditching gives some interesting info:
In the 10 reports produced there was no incident where anyone with a
lifejacket ditched in a controlled way and did not survive. A PA28 ditched
off Guernsey with two pax wearing life jackets and pilot without. The plane
floated long enough for them to get out on to the wing, inflate the dinghy
and for the pilot to go back into the plane to get all his kit into the
dinghy. He ditched with flaps down and gear up.
A Robin however with fixed gear flipped over on landing. This was a
night flight which would not have helped, but it could just be that in among
these two incidents there is a fringe message to add to the mono vs trigear
debate! Neither pilot was wearing the life jacket available in the aircraft,
and while one swam to shore the other apparently took off in the wrong
direction and drowned.
They give a graph for 'Likely Survival Time for a Relatively
Thin Person in Calm Water with no Liferaft'. This compares survival with
just lightweight summer clothing and a survival suit with trousers, long
johns, shirt and heavy pullover. This doesn't seem a totally equable
comparison, but does make the point that the insulation qualities of the
survival suit depend on you wearing thick clothing underneath it, which from
Kevin's account is not too attractive a proposition. They give the following
survival times:
At 5 deg C - S. suit 1 hr 50mins; summer cloths 50 mins.
At 10 deg C - S suit 3 hrs; summer cloths 1 hr
The sea temp in the Channel and Irish Sea at present according to Ant Veals
weather site is around 12 deg C. I haven't got temps for mid winter but it
is difficult to imagine it will be below 5 deg. Kevins acdvice about
survival times in the Irish Sea in May clearly came from a different hymn
sheet than the AAIB one. In all the AAIB comment and discussion I have waded
through there is heavy emphasis on having user friendly lifejackets, and
always wearing them, and talk also about dinghies but no mention of the
desirability of Survival Suits.
In relation to the question of flipping over or trying to jump out
sooner it is worth saying that the guys in the Robin got out without trouble
from the upturned plane, and I think I would prefer my chances of doing that
(as long as I had a good four point harness) rather than risking being
clobbered by some part of the plane while jumping out, or misjudging the
timing and having it land on top of you or immediately in front. I am also
not sure that hitting a wave at 40 kts would be a pleasant experience, and
it might just be enough to tear your life jacket off. The AAIB detailed one
instance where the guy only had a lap strap, hit the water at speed and had
head injuries which stopped him getting out. The website for anyone
interested is www.aaib.dft.gov.uk Regards, David
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
> I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler
> moulding, get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then
> ground the elbow with every other metal bit, including of course
> the filler cap.
I'm unclear what problem this is solving. Static generated in the fill
pipe? The Fiberglass Tank and Pipe Institute say that static charge in
nonconductive pipe is all about velocity, with fuel flow of 12 ft/sec is
a typical threshold. In the Europa Mk 1 filler pipe, that requires 120
gal/minute! But such velocity can be created by whirlpooling fuel down
a plastic funnel, and thus refiners say don't ever do that. Seems also
the mesh will only dissipate static that the mesh itself is creating.
I now can't even find support that grounding the metal filler cap ass'y
does much of anything, and it may even be more hazardous when fueling
from a gas can, should the A/C be grounded to earth. The above
Institute, discussing filling above-ground, nonconductive tanks says:
"The addition of grounding systems (e. g., grounding rods) will not
reduce the hazard associated with electrostatic...." The hazard occurs
if the can's spout is allowed to come out of contact with the metal.
Were the metal not earthed, there's less hazard if the fueler is
standing on a paved surface.
I found the natural gas industry says the same thing. The static charge
on the inside wall in underground polyethylene gas mains is a serious
problem when servicing the pipe. A periodic metal connection in the
buried pipe does nothing, and that's not how it is dealt with nor
adaptable to an airplane.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> |
Hi all,
quote
The channel doesn't concern me so much due to the reasonably short distance
and the ships there are plenty to pick one up.
unquote
This and some similar postings on this issue have urged me to share one
important observation - not from flying (which is a relatively new field to
me) but from sailing a fair bit on yachts and large ships:
Do not count on anyone on a commercial vessel seeing you on "final approach"
or when actually hitting the water, unless you have been able to alert them
by a mayday call on MARINE VHF ch. 16.
Sure, there is a duty officer (supposedly) and a helmsman on the bridge, but
they are not scanning the sky, and scanning the horizon is infrequent unless
there is crossing traffic. Even at daytime, radar is mainly used to detect
and track surrounding traffic. On modern cargo ships, the helmsman's
position is fairly far back in the wheelhouse, and the same goes for the
comfortable chair used by the duty officer. The angle of the sky above the
horizon seen from these positions is very small. A small airplane coming in
to ditch has a very small chance of being seen, both because of the short
time it is in the crews' possible field of vision and because only one, at
most two will be looking out at all, and maybe none of them in the direction
you are coming down during those few seconds you can be seen through the
windows. On a sea with any amount of white-caps, the ditching will probably
not be seen at all, unless very close and if someone happens to be looking
at that particular spot.
I do not have the numbers readily available, but it takes a fair distance to
stop and turn a ship, if anyone indeed did see you ditching. If he does not
keep his eyes on you CONSTANTLY, the chance of finding you again when the
wind is blowing 15-20 knots or more is very, very slim, unless fairly large
pieces of the airplane still floats around you, or unless you are in an
inflated raft (orange colour). If you have a choice, circle and ditch close
to a fishing vessel, not to a commercial vessel under way. There may be
fishermen out on the deck and they can stop much faster and maneouver right
up to you.
Therefore, when I do finish my Europa and fullfill my dream of attenting one
of the fly-ins in England, I will probably wear either a light survival suit
or a wet suit (much better than normal clothes if getting into cold water
and not as uncomfortable in a warm cockpit as a survival suit will be), and
carry onboard a hand-held MARINE VHF radio to alert any ships in the
vicinity, after having transmitted the aeronautical mayday message. In my
jacket I will carry some of the stick-type light/smoke signals readily
available for sailors.
Regards,
Svein K. Johnsen
A225 (now in Norway)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eamonn Sheridan <esheridan1(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | 50% share available |
Fellow Europa enthusiasts, this is a very rare opportunity. Are you interested
or do you know anyone who may be interested to acquire a 50 % share of a Europa
XS Tri-gear 914 Turbo? Based in Biggin Hill. Built in 2000 by David Richardson
to the highest standard. No expense spared. It is a fantastic aeroplane to
fly. It has a Arplast PV50 electrically adjustable variable pitch prop, Bendix
King Nav / Com, Bendix King Transponder with mode C, Skymap 2 GPS, Navaid wing
leveller / Autopilot, Full flight instruments with vacuum drive, Electronic
stall warner, Twin strobes, External power plug, ELBA, Life jackets, Cambrai Cockpit
and Cowling external cover, Twin axle flat bed trailer, All avionics built
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My contact telephone number is 07736 129960
Further info and pictures can be seen on www.holiday-in-marbella.com
Eamonn Sheridan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
Your flex-wing technique may have merit as a few years ago a Channel
ditched flex-wing sank with its pilot, who could not get out of the seat. I
don't know the full details but presume that structural deformation of the
trike tubes upon impact had 'locked' him in.
Flying the Channel (or the Irish Sea) with a companion aircraft has not been
mentioned, but must greatly improve the chances of rescue and survival.
Duncan McFadyean
PS my money is on the life raft so far in this debate! Where can I get a
LIGHTWEIGHT 2-man version?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Survival
>
> David,
>
> I think you have a point and my theory of jumping from the flex wing maybe
> ought not to be carried over to the 3 axis.
>
> I always considered that if I did land on water I would do my best to
stall
> it on and risk a heavy flop rather than flipping over from forward
momentum.
>
> Interesting information you bring to the forum and my thanks for that.
Looks
> like the info I was given was probably more negative on survival time than
> it needed to be.
>
> Last year when we had a mass flex wing crossing of the Irish sea I tried
to
> contact the RNLI several times via email to no avail.
>
> The channel doesn't concern me so much due to the reasonably short
distance
> and the ships there are plenty to pick one up.
>
> As for the Irish sea well that feels a lonely place with not so many. Due
to
> the D201 Dublin ATC lack of help and the general poor radio coverage
between
> Caernarfon and Dublin I probably wont go that route again in future.
>
> I have now fitted a Transponder to my aircraft as I got fed up of not been
> allowed service because I have no transponder.
>
> On that issue when returning from France recently I was refused FIS for
the
> channel crossing return leg because I didn't have a transponder. They told
> me they wouldn't activate a flight plan and I should call London Info. Not
> much help when you are near Abbeville. I managed to activate my plan about
> one third of the way across which wouldn't have been much help had I have
> gone down as no one knew I was there.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Survival
>
>
> I have done a bit of searching round the topic. The Air Accident Invest
> Board site searched for Ditching gives some interesting info:
> In the 10 reports produced there was no incident where anyone with
a
> lifejacket ditched in a controlled way and did not survive. A PA28 ditched
> off Guernsey with two pax wearing life jackets and pilot without. The
plane
> floated long enough for them to get out on to the wing, inflate the dinghy
> and for the pilot to go back into the plane to get all his kit into the
> dinghy. He ditched with flaps down and gear up.
> A Robin however with fixed gear flipped over on landing. This was
a
> night flight which would not have helped, but it could just be that in
among
> these two incidents there is a fringe message to add to the mono vs
trigear
> debate! Neither pilot was wearing the life jacket available in the
aircraft,
> and while one swam to shore the other apparently took off in the wrong
> direction and drowned.
> They give a graph for 'Likely Survival Time for a Relatively
> Thin Person in Calm Water with no Liferaft'. This compares survival with
> just lightweight summer clothing and a survival suit with trousers, long
> johns, shirt and heavy pullover. This doesn't seem a totally equable
> comparison, but does make the point that the insulation qualities of the
> survival suit depend on you wearing thick clothing underneath it, which
from
> Kevin's account is not too attractive a proposition. They give the
following
> survival times:
> At 5 deg C - S. suit 1 hr 50mins; summer cloths 50 mins.
> At 10 deg C - S suit 3 hrs; summer cloths 1 hr
> The sea temp in the Channel and Irish Sea at present according to Ant
Veals
> weather site is around 12 deg C. I haven't got temps for mid winter but it
> is difficult to imagine it will be below 5 deg. Kevins acdvice about
> survival times in the Irish Sea in May clearly came from a different hymn
> sheet than the AAIB one. In all the AAIB comment and discussion I have
waded
> through there is heavy emphasis on having user friendly lifejackets, and
> always wearing them, and talk also about dinghies but no mention of the
> desirability of Survival Suits.
> In relation to the question of flipping over or trying to jump
out
> sooner it is worth saying that the guys in the Robin got out without
trouble
> from the upturned plane, and I think I would prefer my chances of doing
that
> (as long as I had a good four point harness) rather than risking being
> clobbered by some part of the plane while jumping out, or misjudging the
> timing and having it land on top of you or immediately in front. I am also
> not sure that hitting a wave at 40 kts would be a pleasant experience, and
> it might just be enough to tear your life jacket off. The AAIB detailed
one
> instance where the guy only had a lap strap, hit the water at speed and
had
> head injuries which stopped him getting out. The website for anyone
> interested is www.aaib.dft.gov.uk Regards, David
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EIS Coolant connection |
Many thanks for all replies to my query. Of course the circuit was
incomplete without ground
from the VDO sender. I used ring connectors, connecting one to one of the
bolts holding the
vacuum pump to the back of the gear drive. Everythinh works just fine.
Regards, Karl
>From: James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS Coolant connection
>Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:18:32 -0400
>
>
>Karl,
> You did provide a ground for the thermocouple didn't you ???
>I've done that when I installed my big alternator and did not provide a
>good (big) ground to the engine mounting frame. After that it worked
>great. Just like if you remote the oil sender. You must ground the body
>or it won't work. I remoted it to keep the vibration failures
>nonexistent. Early oil senders failed with engine vibration. Check
>other aircraft and see that they mount the oil pressure sender, fuel
>pressure sender ect. on a manifold bolted to the fire wall and separate
>from the engine.
>
>
>Jim Nelson
>
>
>writes:
> >
> >
> > I have the model 2000 EIS from Grand Rapids and a coolant probe
> > which came
> > as a kit from
> > Skydrive.
> > I now discover that the coolant temperature is not being indicated.
> > It shows
> > 15 (C) permanently.
> > I have only one wire from the probe going to pin 24. What am I doing
> > wrong?
> >
> > Cheers, Karl
> >
> > Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
________________________________________________________________________________
I have always used 2 pumps for takeoff in Piper Aircraft. In the 914 engine,
there are 2 electric fuel pumps. I have assumed both would be on for takeoff
and landing. The fuel pressure is regulated in that engine to 3.5 psi above
airbox pressure.
When I am at a constant power settling. My fuel pressure increases by 2.2 psi
with the second pump turned on. Rotax only allows a range of 2.0 to 5.0 for
normal differential fuel pressure. Increasing the pressure by 2.2 is almost
the whole range! I also have evidence of rich running, which has subsided
since I started to run with one pump only during takeoff and landing. (My
system will automatically activate the second pumnpm if the first one fails).
I can't see anywhere that Rotax addressees whether or not the two pumps are
meant to be run at the same time for safety purposes. To add to the dilemma,
the Rotax manual has the pumps in series, where Europa has them in parallel.
I have mine per Europa.
Simple question: What are people doing in operation? 1 or 2?
Thanks,
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Sue Sisley" <bill.sue(at)zip.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: 914 fuel pumps |
Dave,
My set-up is exactly the same as yours, with the two pumps as per Europa and
I have the same pressure rise with the second pump on. I always have both on
for take-off and landing as per the manuals. Works well!
Sue and Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727(at)aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: 914 fuel pumps
>
> I have always used 2 pumps for takeoff in Piper Aircraft. In the 914
engine,
> there are 2 electric fuel pumps. I have assumed both would be on for
takeoff
> and landing. The fuel pressure is regulated in that engine to 3.5 psi
above
> airbox pressure.
>
> When I am at a constant power settling. My fuel pressure increases by 2.2
psi
> with the second pump turned on. Rotax only allows a range of 2.0 to 5.0
for
> normal differential fuel pressure. Increasing the pressure by 2.2 is
almost
> the whole range! I also have evidence of rich running, which has subsided
> since I started to run with one pump only during takeoff and landing. (My
> system will automatically activate the second pumnpm if the first one
fails).
> I can't see anywhere that Rotax addressees whether or not the two pumps
are
> meant to be run at the same time for safety purposes. To add to the
dilemma,
> the Rotax manual has the pumps in series, where Europa has them in
parallel.
> I have mine per Europa.
>
> Simple question: What are people doing in operation? 1 or 2?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Andair/Static Braid/Chat a Chit. |
Graham,
Haven't decided what to do with this static situation, but I like the aluminium
elbow like you helped install on Paul Macs a/c. Poor old bugger is Mac, with
his Achiles tendon. Did you hear about that??? Any news out of Andair about my
internal filter element??? I am going to send you that money too, haven't
forgotten, just sorting it out with Kingsley when he beams it over.
Reg
Tony R.
>
>>Fred and co,
>>
>>Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead
down
>>during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
>>the best optioin
>
>Tony
>I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler moulding,
>get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then ground the elbow with
>every other metal bit, including of course the filler cap.
>I don't feel happy about copper braid rattling around in the pipes. A few
>years down the airways bits may start dropping into the fuel. I know your
>gascolator will catch them but not everyone has an Andair.
>BTW are you still current on small aircraft? Or have you sold the Victa?
>You need to find an excuse to go flying with Kathy McLure!
>Graham
>
>
>---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Static Charges and how to avoid them |
> > I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler
> > moulding, get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then
> > ground the elbow with every other metal bit, including of course
> > the filler cap.
>
>I'm unclear what problem this is solving. Static generated in the fill
>pipe? The Fiberglass Tank and Pipe Institute say that static charge in
>nonconductive pipe is all about velocity, with fuel flow of 12 ft/sec is
>a typical threshold. In the Europa Mk 1 filler pipe, that requires 120
>gal/minute! But such velocity can be created by whirlpooling fuel down
>a plastic funnel, and thus refiners say don't ever do that
Fred
My plan is to dissipate any static charge generated. We know it does arise,
G-BWDP caught fire. I am reliant on the memories of two guys, one of whom
got burnt on the arm, so their memory of the sequence of events might have
been diluted by the trauma at the time.
Considering the velocities involved, the worst case is the speed of the
air/fluid flow through the breather tube, (which also slows down filling)
eventually the breather lower end is submerged, it's fuel that has to flow
then. DPs fire happened right at the end of refuelling .
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Static Charges and how to avoid them |
Hi! All.
I've been watching this thread for a while. Surely there is a case for
having the vents away from the filler like port side near the flap drive
bracket slot? ( Like mine although I don't claim that was the reason I put
it there, actually I wanted a siphon bottle in the roof so the final exit is
well away from the filler anyway)
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement |
Gidday,
I am wondering if the Europa supplied hose is adaquate for this task, as
mine appears to gape around the reinforcement at the outer edge of the hose
clamp. This may well be normal, but it makes me wonder whether there is a
better quality hose available. Any assistance will certainly be appreciated.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS EGT |
05/19/2003 09:54:19 AM
Greetings All,
I have been searching for information about deploying EGT sensors on a 912S
for the past week and have found nothing useful on the web, on the on-line
Rotax
manuals, or even in the archive of this group and the Club Hints & Tips.
Therefore I called Lockwood Aviation and got some specific data from the
best Rotax expert I know which I here share with the group for general
interest sake:
1) EGT is not particularly useful on the 912 series (I went for it anyway,
$80 for 2)
2) The Katana was certificated without one (Actually I seem to remember the
one I flew
had one)
3) The cognoscenti (i.e., Lockwood Aviation, FlightCrafters, etc) strongly
prefer the
bayonet type with the welded bearing nut or bung to the hose clamp type
4) The sensor to use is the Westach 4D6K or equivalent
5) Placement should be in the headers from cylinders 1,3 or 2,4 at 70mm
from the
mounting flange.
6) Be careful to pick a drill axis so that the long exterior head of the
probe does not
interfere with the cowl
Ira N224XS just some wiring and the exterior finish to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
Hi,
I sent out a message advising that I had produced the two tubes
necessary for the recommended oturigger pivot mod. Of the several
correspondents contacted, only one replied - and he was surprised I was
still at it. The mod involves beefing up the pivot to reduce inevitable
'play' and Nigel Charles provided scarce tubing bits because the acquisition
involved considerably more minimal tubing than needed by one person.
I have done the same (for those of North American persuasion) as
far as the tubing is concerned. The other mod parts are more easily acquired
locally - and the cost is negligible.
So this is general message to request those who were interested
to confirm I can send out the kits.
Cheers,
ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <beecho(at)beecho.org> |
Hi Ferg
Yup, please send and let me know how and where to send a check. Please
note a change in my email address.
Thank you,
Tom Friedland
beecho(at)beecho.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger mod
Hi,
I sent out a message advising that I had produced the two
tubes
necessary for the recommended oturigger pivot mod. Of the several
correspondents contacted, only one replied - and he was surprised I was
still at it. The mod involves beefing up the pivot to reduce inevitable
'play' and Nigel Charles provided scarce tubing bits because the
acquisition
involved considerably more minimal tubing than needed by one person.
I have done the same (for those of North American
persuasion) as
far as the tubing is concerned. The other mod parts are more easily
acquired
locally - and the cost is negligible.
So this is general message to request those who were
interested
to confirm I can send out the kits.
Cheers,
ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spark Plug Color |
hi group,
I have now noticed my #1 spark plugs are noticeably darker than the other
three cylinders. It has been this way since day one, but I was hoping for
improvement with engine break in.
Has anyone out there run into this? The plug color is borderline "black"
velvet. I have black spitting out the exhaust somewhat and also my mag check
shows a larger drop than I would like to see.
One thing after another!
Dave
A227
Mini U2
________________________________________________________________________________
Check out http://www.survivalproductsinc.com/ for rafts.
Also of interest (particularly on my side of the Atlantic) is the recent
approval of 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacons by our FCC
http://www.equipped.org/plb_legal.htm These are far less expensive than
STC'ed 406 MHz ELTs and unlike the 121.5 trash, might actually save your
life, and not just in the water.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ami McFadyean
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Survival
Your flex-wing technique may have merit as a few years ago a Channel
ditched flex-wing sank with its pilot, who could not get out of the seat. I
don't know the full details but presume that structural deformation of the
trike tubes upon impact had 'locked' him in.
Flying the Channel (or the Irish Sea) with a companion aircraft has not been
mentioned, but must greatly improve the chances of rescue and survival.
Duncan McFadyean
PS my money is on the life raft so far in this debate! Where can I get a
LIGHTWEIGHT 2-man version?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Survival
>
> David,
>
> I think you have a point and my theory of jumping from the flex wing maybe
> ought not to be carried over to the 3 axis.
>
> I always considered that if I did land on water I would do my best to
stall
> it on and risk a heavy flop rather than flipping over from forward
momentum.
>
> Interesting information you bring to the forum and my thanks for that.
Looks
> like the info I was given was probably more negative on survival time than
> it needed to be.
>
> Last year when we had a mass flex wing crossing of the Irish sea I tried
to
> contact the RNLI several times via email to no avail.
>
> The channel doesn't concern me so much due to the reasonably short
distance
> and the ships there are plenty to pick one up.
>
> As for the Irish sea well that feels a lonely place with not so many. Due
to
> the D201 Dublin ATC lack of help and the general poor radio coverage
between
> Caernarfon and Dublin I probably wont go that route again in future.
>
> I have now fitted a Transponder to my aircraft as I got fed up of not been
> allowed service because I have no transponder.
>
> On that issue when returning from France recently I was refused FIS for
the
> channel crossing return leg because I didn't have a transponder. They told
> me they wouldn't activate a flight plan and I should call London Info. Not
> much help when you are near Abbeville. I managed to activate my plan about
> one third of the way across which wouldn't have been much help had I have
> gone down as no one knew I was there.
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Survival
>
>
> I have done a bit of searching round the topic. The Air Accident Invest
> Board site searched for Ditching gives some interesting info:
> In the 10 reports produced there was no incident where anyone with
a
> lifejacket ditched in a controlled way and did not survive. A PA28 ditched
> off Guernsey with two pax wearing life jackets and pilot without. The
plane
> floated long enough for them to get out on to the wing, inflate the dinghy
> and for the pilot to go back into the plane to get all his kit into the
> dinghy. He ditched with flaps down and gear up.
> A Robin however with fixed gear flipped over on landing. This was
a
> night flight which would not have helped, but it could just be that in
among
> these two incidents there is a fringe message to add to the mono vs
trigear
> debate! Neither pilot was wearing the life jacket available in the
aircraft,
> and while one swam to shore the other apparently took off in the wrong
> direction and drowned.
> They give a graph for 'Likely Survival Time for a Relatively
> Thin Person in Calm Water with no Liferaft'. This compares survival with
> just lightweight summer clothing and a survival suit with trousers, long
> johns, shirt and heavy pullover. This doesn't seem a totally equable
> comparison, but does make the point that the insulation qualities of the
> survival suit depend on you wearing thick clothing underneath it, which
from
> Kevin's account is not too attractive a proposition. They give the
following
> survival times:
> At 5 deg C - S. suit 1 hr 50mins; summer cloths 50 mins.
> At 10 deg C - S suit 3 hrs; summer cloths 1 hr
> The sea temp in the Channel and Irish Sea at present according to Ant
Veals
> weather site is around 12 deg C. I haven't got temps for mid winter but it
> is difficult to imagine it will be below 5 deg. Kevins acdvice about
> survival times in the Irish Sea in May clearly came from a different hymn
> sheet than the AAIB one. In all the AAIB comment and discussion I have
waded
> through there is heavy emphasis on having user friendly lifejackets, and
> always wearing them, and talk also about dinghies but no mention of the
> desirability of Survival Suits.
> In relation to the question of flipping over or trying to jump
out
> sooner it is worth saying that the guys in the Robin got out without
trouble
> from the upturned plane, and I think I would prefer my chances of doing
that
> (as long as I had a good four point harness) rather than risking being
> clobbered by some part of the plane while jumping out, or misjudging the
> timing and having it land on top of you or immediately in front. I am also
> not sure that hitting a wave at 40 kts would be a pleasant experience, and
> it might just be enough to tear your life jacket off. The AAIB detailed
one
> instance where the guy only had a lap strap, hit the water at speed and
had
> head injuries which stopped him getting out. The website for anyone
> interested is www.aaib.dft.gov.uk Regards, David
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <longezav8r(at)YAHOO.COM> |
| Subject: | Europa Monowheel for FS 2000/2002 |
Hello, I am looking for a Europa Monowheel for Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000/2002.
Any leads appreciated. Regards, Steven
Regards,
Steven
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
Very true. When the interior of my 912S silencer collapsed it was only the
very high EGT that flashed up on my EIS (Brilliant) that stopped me damaging
the engine. I would be reluctant to fly without in future.
Rick Morris G-RIKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement |
Europa have changed the hose it supplies, because of poor experience with
the existing. The type provided with my kit was quite thin and flexible and
cloth braided on the outside. I consulted some auto repair mates and they
said they would not fit it on a car because it would start leaking after a
couple of years.
The stuff Europa supplied with the fuel drain mod kit was clearly superior.
I suggest you check with the factory on the spec of the hose they are now
supplying or replace with good quality auto hose.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
> Gidday,
> I am wondering if the Europa supplied hose is adaquate for this task, as
> mine appears to gape around the reinforcement at the outer edge of the
hose
> clamp. This may well be normal, but it makes me wonder whether there is a
> better quality hose available. Any assistance will certainly be
appreciated.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger mod |
| From: | James H Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Ferg,
What is the cost for the outrigger kit? I would like to get one
(presuming it is a kit for two wheels) :-))
Jim Nelson
N15JN (42 hours+)
Love the challenge on every take off and landing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Runnymede73(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Color |
all engines using the otto cycle are crap
but they work
as witnessed by the last 80 years or so
don't expect super efficiency they are propably only 70% if your lucky
one plug showing a variation on the others!!!!!
count your blessings
forget it and enjoy your flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
I can't find the EGT in the Rotax manuals. What max temperature did you set
it to on the EIS ?
Regards, Karl
>From: RMRRick(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912ULS EGT
>Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:57:40 EDT
>
>
>Very true. When the interior of my 912S silencer collapsed it was only the
>very high EGT that flashed up on my EIS (Brilliant) that stopped me
>damaging
>the engine. I would be reluctant to fly without in future.
>
>Rick Morris G-RIKS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
EGT EIS warning set at 860.
Rick
G-RIKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
> Fred
> My plan is to dissipate any static charge generated. We know it
> does arise, G-BWDP caught fire. I am reliant on the memories of
> two guys, one of whom got burnt on the arm, so their memory of
> the sequence of events might have been diluted by the trauma at
> the time.
> ...
Graham, were both the above incidents while hoisting up fuel containers
to pour in fuel? In that case, refiners say a metal can is more
hazardous than plastic (why they're hard to find in stores here). If
you know of two such incidents, then maybe there is indeed an especial
hazard with fiberglass airplanes. The following is quoted from a doc
(by NZ's CAAA) reprinted by FAA, discussing fueling from portable
containers:
"No amount of bonding and grounding will prevent discharges from
occurring inside a fuel tank [in context, this includes metal tanks
too]. Bonding, however, will ensure that the fueling equipment and the
receiving tank are at the same potential...."
"Place the container on ground. Keep the nozzle in contact with the
container inlet during fuel transfer."
"A composite aircraft is more likely to develop and sustain a static
charge because of the low conductivity of the fiberglass structure."
IOW, a safe way is a metal can preferably on the ground, metal nozzle
and conductive hose, bonding wire from can to filler opening, stand
clear of A/C. Pump it in with electric or hand pump, with flow rate in
the hose below the magic # of 12 ft/sec (30 gal/min in a 1" ID hose),
which should be no problem in an affordable pump!
Best,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bill.sue(at)zip.co.nz" <bill.sue(at)zip.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Color |
Dave,
Mine is exactly the same but runs well at over 100 hrs now.
I would not be worried
Bill
>
> hi group,
>
> I have now noticed my #1 spark plugs are noticeably darker than the other
> three cylinders. It has been this way since day one, but I was hoping for
> improvement with engine break in.
>
> Has anyone out there run into this? The plug color is borderline "black"
> velvet. I have black spitting out the exhaust somewhat and also my mag
check
> shows a larger drop than I would like to see.
>
> One thing after another!
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
Fred, The snag about the flow rate is that in a large caliber pipe the fuel
will accelerate at something like1g and in a 3ft vertical drop from standing
start this produces 13.6 ft per sec. I guess the fuel pipe is not 3 ft long
but the fuel doesn't have a standing start either. Regards, David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them
>
> > Fred
> > My plan is to dissipate any static charge generated. We know it
> > does arise, G-BWDP caught fire. I am reliant on the memories of
> > two guys, one of whom got burnt on the arm, so their memory of
> > the sequence of events might have been diluted by the trauma at
> > the time.
> > ...
>
> Graham, were both the above incidents while hoisting up fuel containers
> to pour in fuel? In that case, refiners say a metal can is more
> hazardous than plastic (why they're hard to find in stores here). If
> you know of two such incidents, then maybe there is indeed an especial
> hazard with fiberglass airplanes. The following is quoted from a doc
> (by NZ's CAAA) reprinted by FAA, discussing fueling from portable
> containers:
>
> "No amount of bonding and grounding will prevent discharges from
> occurring inside a fuel tank [in context, this includes metal tanks
> too]. Bonding, however, will ensure that the fueling equipment and the
> receiving tank are at the same potential...."
>
> "Place the container on ground. Keep the nozzle in contact with the
> container inlet during fuel transfer."
>
> "A composite aircraft is more likely to develop and sustain a static
> charge because of the low conductivity of the fiberglass structure."
>
> IOW, a safe way is a metal can preferably on the ground, metal nozzle
> and conductive hose, bonding wire from can to filler opening, stand
> clear of A/C. Pump it in with electric or hand pump, with flow rate in
> the hose below the magic # of 12 ft/sec (30 gal/min in a 1" ID hose),
> which should be no problem in an affordable pump!
>
> Best,
> Fred F.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sticky pre-skinned surfaces |
Greetings all,
I've noticed in the past couple of weeks that my factory pre-skinned
ailerons, stab, rudder, antiservo tabs and flaps have become sticky to the
touch. We've been getting a fair amount of rain of late and the relative
humidity has been fairly high (60%-70%) for several weeks. Is this something
to be concerned about? Anybody know what is causing the stickiness? The parts
have been stored in a temperature controlled environment going no lower than
about 55F and no higher than 75F. Handling them for fitting flaps, ailerons,
stab, etc., has resulted in fingerprints showing up on the surfaces. What's a
good way to clean them up before finish?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sticky pre-skinned surfaces |
In a message dated 5/20/2003 7:35:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com writes:
>
> I've noticed in the past couple of weeks that my factory pre-skinned
> ailerons, stab, rudder, antiservo tabs and flaps have become sticky to the
> touch. We've been getting a fair amount of rain of late and the relative
> humidity has been fairly high (60%-70%) for several weeks. Is this
> something
> to be concerned about? Anybody know what is causing the stickiness? The
> parts
> have been stored in a temperature controlled environment going no lower
> than
> about 55F and no higher than 75F. Handling them for fitting flaps,
> ailerons,
> stab, etc., has resulted in fingerprints showing up on the surfaces. What's
> a
> good way to clean them up before finish?
>
>
I would call Europa and speak to Neville about this. He gave me a very good
briefing on how to prep the surfaces prior to filling. It amounted to a
detergent scrubbing and then careful handling after that - to not touch with
human hands. As a general note, during my construction of the airplane,
calling Europa on items such as this was invaluable. They were very helpful
in many stages of my construction. Andy and Neville were well worth the call
to the UK in the wee hours of the morning. I highly recommend it!
Dave
A227
Mini U2
52 hours flight time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
> Fred, The snag about the flow rate is that in a large caliber pipe
> the fuel will accelerate at something like 1g and in a 3ft vertical
> drop from standing start this produces 13.6 ft per sec. I guess
> the fuel pipe is not 3 ft long but the fuel doesn't have a standing
> start either. Regards, David Joyce
That's a good point, but the initial drop is about a foot or less on the
older fill pipe, and in the tri-gear, the fuel will not see the vertical
part of the it. Unless you just pour the stuff down the hole from
a can, more unsafe yet. In any case where any nozzle is inserted down
the pipe, the velocity is limited by the nozzle itself plus other
factors, before free falling a few inches to hit a major slowdown in the
more lateral run of the pipe.
I understand the literature to suggest that static downstream of the
filler opening is substantially irrelevant. If the nozzle is in contact
with the opening, there simply is no gap for a spark to occur.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roland Robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk" <roland.robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement |
I had a recent bad experience with a Europa just after take-off that I
eventually traced to what I believe is an original fuel line supplied by the
factory. I had completed the annual inspection, which obviously included
removing and cleaning the fuel filters, I flight tested the plane (at full
all up weight) and flew for a couple more hours with no problems, then I set
out for some circuits (I am low hours on type) - first circuit no problem,
second circuit just after take-off engine started to run rough, it felt
almost as if it were on two cylinders. I closed the throttle and looked at
getting it back on the runway (I operate from Kemble that has a V long
runway) but was too late. I was picking my field when my friend flying with
me suggested trying the throttle again I did and the engine responded - for
a while and then ran rough again. We repeated this for a few times and
gained enough height to make the cross runway. When we finally got the Pan
call in the engine of course ran fine on reduced throttle. On landing and
carrying out some power checks the only discrepancy we could find was a
approx 200rpm loss in max revs.
Many checks followed dirt in the tank, float bowls, drained tanks, boroscope
in tank, check filters again!!- nothing. However when replacing the filters
we noticed that there was a short split in the fuel line. In its dark and
dingy corner under the seat this was not easy to spot. The lines were
replaced, fuel pressure gauges added and we gingerly went for a test flight.
The problem has not recurred.
Why did the problem not occur immediately - here is my theory. I started the
test and subsequent flights with full tanks. As the fuel level dropped the
suction head on the pump reduced and the pump eventually drew air from the
split in the pipe. (I have since run with less fuel than I normally would to
test that this would not happen again). The engine recovered as the
throttle was closed as the fuel demand reduced the pump demand reduced.
Any other theories out there??
Roly Robinson G-CHAV (Now at Gloucester)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
> Europa have changed the hose it supplies, because of poor experience with
> the existing. The type provided with my kit was quite thin and flexible
and
> cloth braided on the outside. I consulted some auto repair mates and they
> said they would not fit it on a car because it would start leaking after a
> couple of years.
> The stuff Europa supplied with the fuel drain mod kit was clearly
superior.
> I suggest you check with the factory on the spec of the hose they are now
> supplying or replace with good quality auto hose.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
> To:
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
>
>
> >
> > Gidday,
> > I am wondering if the Europa supplied hose is adaquate for this task, as
> > mine appears to gape around the reinforcement at the outer edge of the
> hose
> > clamp. This may well be normal, but it makes me wonder whether there is
a
> > better quality hose available. Any assistance will certainly be
> appreciated.
> > Reg
> > Tony Renshaw
> > Sydney Australia
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS EGT |
>Very true. When the interior of my 912S silencer collapsed it was only the
>very high EGT that flashed up on my EIS (Brilliant) that stopped me damaging
>the engine. I would be reluctant to fly without in future.
>Rick Morris G-RIKS
I agree
in fact I would prefer 4 EGTs not two. The way the highest cylinder moves
around with changing throttle setting is amazing, Must be something to do
with the strange manifold shape. I suspect the Skydrive carb heater might
help to even out the mixture and help more balanced EGTs. Anyone know?
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
Which suggests that the metal part of the breather tube should be bonded to
the metal surround of the filler cap and the refuelling nozzle kept in
contact with the latter whilst refuelling?
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them
>
> > > I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler
> > > moulding, get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then
> > > ground the elbow with every other metal bit, including of course
> > > the filler cap.
> >
> >I'm unclear what problem this is solving. Static generated in the fill
> >pipe? The Fiberglass Tank and Pipe Institute say that static charge in
> >nonconductive pipe is all about velocity, with fuel flow of 12 ft/sec is
> >a typical threshold. In the Europa Mk 1 filler pipe, that requires 120
> >gal/minute! But such velocity can be created by whirlpooling fuel down
> >a plastic funnel, and thus refiners say don't ever do that
>
> Fred
> My plan is to dissipate any static charge generated. We know it does
arise,
> G-BWDP caught fire. I am reliant on the memories of two guys, one of whom
> got burnt on the arm, so their memory of the sequence of events might
have
> been diluted by the trauma at the time.
> Considering the velocities involved, the worst case is the speed of the
> air/fluid flow through the breather tube, (which also slows down filling)
> eventually the breather lower end is submerged, it's fuel that has to flow
> then. DPs fire happened right at the end of refuelling .
> Graham
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
Having got four EGTs, I find that (as the rear cylinders run much cooler) I
could live with only two EGTs. But then I would probably be wondering what
the two rear cylinders were up to; so who knows.
The firing order of the 912 means that the rear cylinder follows the front
by a delay of 180 degrees only (as opposed to 360 deg. for evenly spaced
firing).
That means that the intake of both cylinders on one side are overlapped (the
valves are both open together for a short while in the cycle, one at the
beginning of the intake stroke and the other at the end) and I suspect that
one cylinder is effectively "robbing" the other. Roll-on injection and
four separate runners! (is that not what the alternate drilled and tapped
bosses around the cylinder head intakes were provided for?).
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912ULS EGT
>
> >Very true. When the interior of my 912S silencer collapsed it was only
the
> >very high EGT that flashed up on my EIS (Brilliant) that stopped me
damaging
> >the engine. I would be reluctant to fly without in future.
> >Rick Morris G-RIKS
>
> I agree
> in fact I would prefer 4 EGTs not two. The way the highest cylinder moves
> around with changing throttle setting is amazing, Must be something to do
> with the strange manifold shape. I suspect the Skydrive carb heater might
> help to even out the mixture and help more balanced EGTs. Anyone know?
> Graham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
Replying to Graham & Tony
I had a progressive loss of power over a period of about 20 flying hours.
From 40 odd hours from new. Initially I had fewer revs on the take off run
and leaner plugs particularly on the starboard bank. Thinking that the
problem was leanness due to either lack of fuel or an air leak on the inlet
both were checked repeatedly and very carefully. The problem worsened with
the starboard EGT (taken from the mid point of the rearward downpipe)
flashing on the EIS from about 300 feet upwards and then a slight misfire.
Reducing throttle brought the temperature down. I fitted a carb water heater
halfway through the problem thinking there might be icing (mid winter) There
also appeared to be an exhaust leak at the junction of the downpipe and the
silencer. To cut a long story short Skydrive suggested I simply remove the
box and test run it unsilenced. Immediately the problem disappeared. Sounds
beautiful! A replacement box solved all the problems. Andy, the silencer
manufacturer and the PFA have been told. The back pressure from a displaced
baffle was leaning the mixture. It was also blowing off the silencer from the
starboard downpipe.
It seems that I had an isolated bad silencer.
Regards Rick
G-RIKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement |
| From: | Ed <bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk> |
Hi Roly
I had an almost identical experience flying a PA28 from Redhill. Applied
full power, which I got until I was 50' off the ground and out of runway.
Engine spluttered, throttled back, it ran fine. However, not enough power to
clear the hill so put it down in the overshoot. At the time I thought it was
carb ice, but I later diacovered that it was a poorly fitted fuel union that
leaked and thus allowed air into the fuel system whilst the electric and
mechanical pumps were active. The plane had just come out of maintenance!
So I think that your theory is quite sound.
Cheers
Ed
on 20/5/03 7:49 pm, Roland Robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk at
roland.robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk wrote:
>
>
> I had a recent bad experience with a Europa just after take-off that I
> eventually traced to what I believe is an original fuel line supplied by the
> factory. I had completed the annual inspection, which obviously included
> removing and cleaning the fuel filters, I flight tested the plane (at full
> all up weight) and flew for a couple more hours with no problems, then I set
> out for some circuits (I am low hours on type) - first circuit no problem,
> second circuit just after take-off engine started to run rough, it felt
> almost as if it were on two cylinders. I closed the throttle and looked at
> getting it back on the runway (I operate from Kemble that has a V long
> runway) but was too late. I was picking my field when my friend flying with
> me suggested trying the throttle again I did and the engine responded - for
> a while and then ran rough again. We repeated this for a few times and
> gained enough height to make the cross runway. When we finally got the Pan
> call in the engine of course ran fine on reduced throttle. On landing and
> carrying out some power checks the only discrepancy we could find was a
> approx 200rpm loss in max revs.
>
> Many checks followed dirt in the tank, float bowls, drained tanks, boroscope
> in tank, check filters again!!- nothing. However when replacing the filters
> we noticed that there was a short split in the fuel line. In its dark and
> dingy corner under the seat this was not easy to spot. The lines were
> replaced, fuel pressure gauges added and we gingerly went for a test flight.
> The problem has not recurred.
>
> Why did the problem not occur immediately - here is my theory. I started the
> test and subsequent flights with full tanks. As the fuel level dropped the
> suction head on the pump reduced and the pump eventually drew air from the
> split in the pipe. (I have since run with less fuel than I normally would to
> test that this would not happen again). The engine recovered as the
> throttle was closed as the fuel demand reduced the pump demand reduced.
>
> Any other theories out there??
>
> Roly Robinson G-CHAV (Now at Gloucester)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
>
>>
>> Europa have changed the hose it supplies, because of poor experience with
>> the existing. The type provided with my kit was quite thin and flexible
> and
>> cloth braided on the outside. I consulted some auto repair mates and they
>> said they would not fit it on a car because it would start leaking after a
>> couple of years.
>> The stuff Europa supplied with the fuel drain mod kit was clearly
> superior.
>> I suggest you check with the factory on the spec of the hose they are now
>> supplying or replace with good quality auto hose.
>>
>> Brian Davies kit 454
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
>> To:
>> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Gidday,
>>> I am wondering if the Europa supplied hose is adaquate for this task, as
>>> mine appears to gape around the reinforcement at the outer edge of the
>> hose
>>> clamp. This may well be normal, but it makes me wonder whether there is
> a
>>> better quality hose available. Any assistance will certainly be
>> appreciated.
>>> Reg
>>> Tony Renshaw
>>> Sydney Australia
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Butcher" <europa(at)triton.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger mod |
Ferg,
Cost please. I'd like a set.
Jim A185
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Sticky pre-skinned surfaces |
John,
All my Stage 1 components have this to one extent or other. Indeed, at the
time we went into it in great depth with the factory and SP Systems (who
make the resin). Apparently it is a result of contaminants emerging from the
resin and reacting with water out of the atmosphere (which is exacerbated by
slow hardener being used and tallies with your weather report) and will need
to be cleaned up prior to finishing. It is not of structural significance.
Having said it is not structurally significant, it is worth taking
precautions for the sake of your health when handling these (and all)
layups. I generally wear latex gloves when handling cured layups, or wash my
hands promptly afterwards. I do not want to acquire an allergy for the sake
of a few hundred disposable gloves and a little care.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Sticky pre-skinned surfaces
Greetings all,
I've noticed in the past couple of weeks that my factory pre-skinned
ailerons, stab, rudder, antiservo tabs and flaps have become sticky to the
touch. We've been getting a fair amount of rain of late and the relative
humidity has been fairly high (60%-70%) for several weeks. Is this something
to be concerned about? Anybody know what is causing the stickiness? The
parts
have been stored in a temperature controlled environment going no lower than
about 55F and no higher than 75F. Handling them for fitting flaps, ailerons,
stab, etc., has resulted in fingerprints showing up on the surfaces. What's
a
good way to clean them up before finish?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gert Rohrer" <hagero(at)bluewin.ch> |
Hi Ferg,
Being builder of #248 over here in Switzerland, I'm very much interested in
the modification kit. Could you send one to me and indicate, per e-mail what
it costs?
Thanks very much and kind regards
Gert
Gert Rohrer
Schaedruetihalde 12
CH-6006 Lucerne / Switzerland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger mod
Hi,
I sent out a message advising that I had produced the two tubes
necessary for the recommended oturigger pivot mod. Of the several
correspondents contacted, only one replied - and he was surprised I was
still at it. The mod involves beefing up the pivot to reduce inevitable
'play' and Nigel Charles provided scarce tubing bits because the acquisition
involved considerably more minimal tubing than needed by one person.
I have done the same (for those of North American persuasion) as
far as the tubing is concerned. The other mod parts are more easily acquired
locally - and the cost is negligible.
So this is general message to request those who were interested
to confirm I can send out the kits.
Cheers,
ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement |
Roland, If the split fuel line allowed air in I am surprised that it did not
let a tank full of fuel out and make itself obvious beforehand. David
----- Original Message -----
From: Roland Robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk <roland.robinson(at)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
> I had a recent bad experience with a Europa just after take-off that I
> eventually traced to what I believe is an original fuel line supplied by
the
> factory. I had completed the annual inspection, which obviously included
> removing and cleaning the fuel filters, I flight tested the plane (at full
> all up weight) and flew for a couple more hours with no problems, then I
set
> out for some circuits (I am low hours on type) - first circuit no problem,
> second circuit just after take-off engine started to run rough, it felt
> almost as if it were on two cylinders. I closed the throttle and looked at
> getting it back on the runway (I operate from Kemble that has a V long
> runway) but was too late. I was picking my field when my friend flying
with
> me suggested trying the throttle again I did and the engine responded -
for
> a while and then ran rough again. We repeated this for a few times and
> gained enough height to make the cross runway. When we finally got the
Pan
> call in the engine of course ran fine on reduced throttle. On landing and
> carrying out some power checks the only discrepancy we could find was a
> approx 200rpm loss in max revs.
>
> Many checks followed dirt in the tank, float bowls, drained tanks,
boroscope
> in tank, check filters again!!- nothing. However when replacing the
filters
> we noticed that there was a short split in the fuel line. In its dark and
> dingy corner under the seat this was not easy to spot. The lines were
> replaced, fuel pressure gauges added and we gingerly went for a test
flight.
> The problem has not recurred.
>
> Why did the problem not occur immediately - here is my theory. I started
the
> test and subsequent flights with full tanks. As the fuel level dropped the
> suction head on the pump reduced and the pump eventually drew air from the
> split in the pipe. (I have since run with less fuel than I normally would
to
> test that this would not happen again). The engine recovered as the
> throttle was closed as the fuel demand reduced the pump demand reduced.
>
> Any other theories out there??
>
> Roly Robinson G-CHAV (Now at Gloucester)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
>
>
> >
> > Europa have changed the hose it supplies, because of poor experience
with
> > the existing. The type provided with my kit was quite thin and flexible
> and
> > cloth braided on the outside. I consulted some auto repair mates and
they
> > said they would not fit it on a car because it would start leaking after
a
> > couple of years.
> > The stuff Europa supplied with the fuel drain mod kit was clearly
> superior.
> > I suggest you check with the factory on the spec of the hose they are
now
> > supplying or replace with good quality auto hose.
> >
> > Brian Davies kit 454
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw(at)ozemail.com.au>
> > To:
> > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Outlet Rubber Hose Replacement
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gidday,
> > > I am wondering if the Europa supplied hose is adaquate for this task,
as
> > > mine appears to gape around the reinforcement at the outer edge of the
> > hose
> > > clamp. This may well be normal, but it makes me wonder whether there
is
> a
> > > better quality hose available. Any assistance will certainly be
> > appreciated.
> > > Reg
> > > Tony Renshaw
> > > Sydney Australia
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel outlet rubber hose |
Thinking more about Roland's problem, I wonder whether he could have had a damaged
end with the inner part seperated from the outer, which allowed a flap to
get pushed in when forcing the hose on to the connector, partially blocking the
lumen, only allowing adequate fuel flow for small throttle openings, and having
no route for a fuel leak to make things obvious. A burst of full throttle
might push the flap a bit further in or simply use up the fuel in the carb bowls.It
is easy to imagine that further handling of the pipe could then produce
a full thickness split. David Joyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Sweeting <Paul.Sweeting(at)ntl.com> |
| Subject: | Sticky pre-skinned surfaces |
Wasnt it mentioned latex gloves are permeable to the irritant or is this
just the case for pvc based disposible gloves??
Cheers
Paul.
Paul Sweeting
Europa XS Monowheel 558
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Davey [mailto:jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sticky pre-skinned surfaces
John,
All my Stage 1 components have this to one extent or other. Indeed, at the
time we went into it in great depth with the factory and SP Systems (who
make the resin). Apparently it is a result of contaminants emerging from the
resin and reacting with water out of the atmosphere (which is exacerbated by
slow hardener being used and tallies with your weather report) and will need
to be cleaned up prior to finishing. It is not of structural significance.
Having said it is not structurally significant, it is worth taking
precautions for the sake of your health when handling these (and all)
layups. I generally wear latex gloves when handling cured layups, or wash my
hands promptly afterwards. I do not want to acquire an allergy for the sake
of a few hundred disposable gloves and a little care.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
The contents of this email and any attachments are sent for the personal attention
of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended
addressee, any use, disclosure or copying of this email and any attachments is
unauthorised - please notify the sender by return and delete the message. Any
representations or commitments expressed in this email are subject to contract.
ntl Group Limited
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | irampil(at)notes.cc.sunysb.edu |
05/21/2003 09:55:56 AM,
Serialize complete at 05/21/2003 09:55:56 AM
Per the 912ULS Rotax Operators manual on-line at Kodiaksb,
The max T/O EGT (5 minutes) is 880C
The max Cruise EGT is 850C
If indeed the EIS alarm is 860, you may want to consider resetting it
Ira N224XS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wanted: Becker 3201 |
| From: | Gerry Holland <gnholland(at)onetel.com> |
Looking for a Becker 3201 Transceiver in perfect working order and good
visual condition. Ideally need 2 of these.
If you have one available please e-mail me at: gnholland(at)onetel.com
Can pay cash or swap both for Brand new 'boxed' Microair 760 with all
Documentation.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland(at)onetel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Ira
Thanks for the thought. I set the EGT just below take off and slightly above
cruise max deliberately to give me some prior indication before a problem.
It seemed to work as with the damaged silencer the reading took a big jump from
770 ish to 860 + or more in one go in the climeout. The EGT increase was not
progressive but quite jumpy so I don't think it's safe to sail too close to
the wind. With just a manual gauge I may have missed it but with a flashing
red light right in my eye line (part of the EIS set up) and a flashing EIS EGT
reading it could not be missed.
Regards
Rick
G-RIKS
Off to see my son race in East London SA for a week so off line till the
27th.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know I
can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
Brian Davies kit 454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! Brian.
I'm pretty sure that the ICOM IC A200 is no longer approved gear for new
installations. Quite frankly on my experiences on a "grp ship" I consider
that to be a good decision by the CAA.
Mine is still poor on reception depending on engine shadow even with a new
belly mounted antenae at about 140.! Believe me I have tried every thing to
solve the problem and find myself needing to fly most often with the squelch
facility off. The squelch control is automatic and can not be regulated
freely by an in flight control making it IMHO unfit for purpose.
I'm given to understand that the Microair set is the best thing since sliced
bread, suggest you investigate further.Mendholson supplied mine.
Otherwise I have an ICOM IC A 200 you can pay me for!!!!
Regards
Bob Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Davies
Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know
I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
Brian Davies kit 454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Wanted: Becker 3201 |
Hi! Gerry.
Brian Davies may be interested to buy the Microair at :-
bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk
I've just suggested a Microair to him in lieu of my crap experiences with an
ICOM IC A200.
However if you want somewhere to throw the Micrair I'm your man !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Subject: Europa-List: Wanted: Becker 3201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
Glad I don't have any baffles in my silencer!
Duncan mcF.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RMRRick(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912ULS EGT
> A replacement box solved all the problems. Andy, the silencer
> manufacturer and the PFA have been told. The back pressure from a
displaced
> baffle was leaning the mixture. It was also blowing off the silencer from
the
> starboard downpipe.
> It seems that I had an isolated bad silencer.
>
> Regards Rick
> G-RIKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 |
Waters and Stanton in Essex.
Tel. 01702 206835/204965.
Just to tease you, they recently sold-off their pre-TSO'd stock of A200s for
299 each!
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier
support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ami McFadyean" <ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 |
Bob,
Any more details of the belly-mounted antenna? The fin mounted version is
poor with any radio if the receiving station is infront (like an airfield
that is being flown towards!).
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
> Hi! Brian.
> I'm pretty sure that the ICOM IC A200 is no longer approved gear for new
> installations. Quite frankly on my experiences on a "grp ship" I consider
> that to be a good decision by the CAA.
> Mine is still poor on reception depending on engine shadow even with a new
> belly mounted antenae at about 140.! Believe me I have tried every thing
to
> solve the problem and find myself needing to fly most often with the
squelch
> facility off. The squelch control is automatic and can not be regulated
> freely by an in flight control making it IMHO unfit for purpose.
> I'm given to understand that the Microair set is the best thing since
sliced
> bread, suggest you investigate further.Mendholson supplied mine.
> Otherwise I have an ICOM IC A 200 you can pay me for!!!!
> Regards
> Bob Harrison
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Davies
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 |
| From: | Mark Burton <markb(at)ordern.com> |
Hello Brian,
I have been using an ICOM IC A200 with a Bob Archer antenna glued to
the inside of my Europa fuselage for a few years now and its
performance is absolutely first class.
I regularly pick up good quality transmissions from other aircraft
over 100 miles away and have never been told my transmissions are less
than 5's.
The automatic squelch works just fine.
Regards,
Mark
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:22:24 +0100
>
> Hi! Brian.
> I'm pretty sure that the ICOM IC A200 is no longer approved gear for new
> installations. Quite frankly on my experiences on a "grp ship" I consider
> that to be a good decision by the CAA.
> Mine is still poor on reception depending on engine shadow even with a new
> belly mounted antenae at about 140.! Believe me I have tried every thing to
> solve the problem and find myself needing to fly most often with the squelch
> facility off. The squelch control is automatic and can not be regulated
> freely by an in flight control making it IMHO unfit for purpose.
> I'm given to understand that the Microair set is the best thing since sliced
> bread, suggest you investigate further.Mendholson supplied mine.
> Otherwise I have an ICOM IC A 200 you can pay me for!!!!
> Regards
> Bob Harrison
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Davies
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
>
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 05/20/03 |
>Hi Roly
>I had an almost identical experience flying a PA28 from Redhill. Applied
>full power, which I got until I was 50' off the ground and out of runway.
>Engine spluttered, throttled back, it ran fine. later diacovered that it
>was a poorly fitted fuel union that
>leaked and thus allowed air into the fuel system
>So I think that your theory is quite sound.
>Ed
Roly & Ed
Your theory is indeed sound IMHO. A slight leak on the upstream side of the
pumps may be undetected because so little fuel seeps out it may not be
noticed in the general smell of fuel in the cabin. {:-( However at low
tank levels, air will be sucked in to the line, this will displace fuel,
the air passes through the tiny leak easier than fuel does so its volume
may easily result in a severe loss of fuel pressure. Remember the electric
pump won't pump air very effectively anyway, the air expands in response to
the pressure reduction caused by the pump so displaces more fuel.
I recommend checking for air in the fuel flow by pumping with the electric
pump from a low tank level into a long , clear pvc tube. Air bubbles will
be easily visible in the fuel flow.
This happened to G-KWIP in the very early days, I have to say that Neville
was the one who suggested this test and it worked. Others blamed our non
standard (at that time) fuel vapour return, hot air system, whatever. The
cause was a poorly installed joint in the metal fuel lines. Just like Ed's
Piper.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Icom IC A200 /belly antenna |
Hi! Duncan./Brian Davies/Gerry and all.
The belly mounted antenna I now have is CI-122 from Adams Aviation at
140.13 incl VAT. recommended by "Ash" the guy who used to do the panels for
RD Aviation. As you perhaps noticed
it sweeps backwards in a manner which clears my trailer floor when I winch
the a/c backwards.
However I'm not convinced that the improvement over the standard copper tape
in the fin close out is particularly worth the expense and effort, but as
yet another attempt to improve my ICOM IC A200 RECEPTION it just adds to the
list of things to try because "you name it I've tried it" with many
professional people having been involved with VSWR meters you name it, but
of course I have the Jabiru 3300 engine installation which may be the cause
of the reception problem.
OK some lucky folks sing praises of the ICOM but I must speak as to my
misfortunes, and I would expect that the CAA have taken their action on
informed experiences, and "good gear" doesn't get sold off at bum prices for
no reason ?
Ivor Phillips is suggesting the following alternative to be investigated by
anyone on the point of making a purchase............. before you commit your
self to the Microair look at this radio from Australia
http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/online-sales/main-page.html
read the spec about monitoring two channels at once.
There are some things that I dearly wish I had the opportunity and cash to
revisit.
Yes, hope to see you at Kemble, Gerry!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Bob,
Any more details of the belly-mounted antenna? The fin mounted version is
poor with any radio if the receiving station is infront (like an airfield
that is being flown towards!).
Duncan McF
>
> Hi! Brian.
> I'm pretty sure that the ICOM IC A200 is no longer approved gear for new
> installations. Quite frankly on my experiences on a "grp ship" I consider
> that to be a good decision by the CAA.
> Mine is still poor on reception depending on engine shadow even with a new
> belly mounted antenae at about 140.! Believe me I have tried every thing
to
> solve the problem and find myself needing to fly most often with the
squelch
> facility off. The squelch control is automatic and can not be regulated
> freely by an in flight control making it IMHO unfit for purpose.
> I'm given to understand that the Microair set is the best thing since
sliced
> bread, suggest you investigate further.Mendholson supplied mine.
> Otherwise I have an ICOM IC A 200 you can pay me for!!!!
> Regards
> Bob Harrison
>
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Brian,
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The issue of
"approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but despite a fair
amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the rumours. I suspect this
is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by well meaning people who like
bad news and believe everything they hear) that makes the Internet an unreliable
source of information unless you apply a reasonable degree of skepticism
to the information content.
The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a lot to
be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice features
like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the documentation supplied
with the unit is essentially an external wiring diagram -- no application
notes and no information on singal levels or even the meaning of the abbreviations.
I have checked all the Icom websites (Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and
they have nothing useful.
The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and detailed
repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view was that
nothing else would be available from other centres. In other words, if you want
anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own. My radio came
with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies with this sort
of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively inexpensive VHF Aircraft
radios available.
If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of the features,
let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to nut out.
Best regards,
Nick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 /belly antenna |
In a message dated 5/21/2003 6:29:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk writes:
> before you commit your
> self to the Microair look at this radio from Australia
Not to throw off on Microair, I have one installed in my sailplane and it's
worked flawlessly for over a year now. However, there is another guy at our
field who has one installed in his Blanik L-33 who has had nothing but
trouble with it. The display goes blank, then flashes between modes. It
receives ok, but when he transmits it sounds like it's off frequency by about
500Hz. Some days it doesn't work at all. The problem seems to be temperature
related. His is about 4 years old and is about to go back to the factory.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
>From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
>Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
>
>Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know I
>can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
>Brian Davies kit 454
Brian
there was a question re approval in the early days, but only because some
people wanted to use the ICOM A200 as a base station and CAA didn't like
that. It is approved for airborne use. I have no idea what it's performance
is like.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
> Which suggests that the metal part of the breather tube should be
> bonded to the metal surround of the filler cap and the refuelling
> nozzle kept in contact with the latter whilst refuelling?
>
> Duncan McF.
There's no possibility a static inside the vent tubing. Fuel vapor flow
does not cause static. Any fuel flowing in the vent line requires
bubbling or sufficient velocity for turbulent flow to cause any static
at all. In any case, the tiny I.D. of the tube should should be
insufficient surface area to store enough spark energy for ignition.
Bonding the outside metal tube to the filler cap will do no harm but
accomplish nothing that I can see.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles(at)tiscali.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
>in fact I would prefer 4 EGTs not two. The way the highest cylinder moves
around with changing throttle setting is amazing, Must be something to do
with the strange manifold shape. I suspect the Skydrive carb heater might
help to even out the mixture and help more balanced EGTs. Anyone know?<
I have not noticed this phenomenon but I also prefer 4 EGT's for a different
reason. If the engine should run rough or fail a magneto drop check,
monitoring the individual EGT's may show up which is the problem cylinder.
To achieve this I use a switch selector between the senders and the RMI
uMonitor. Up to now when I have checked the individual temperatures there
hasn't been a lot of difference but I will look more closely at the highest
cylinder on my next flight.
Nigel Charles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 |
Many thanks for all the good advice regarding the Icom ICA200. The lack of
support for the unit has persuaded me to dig deeper into my pocket and
switch to the Becker radio and transponder. All of the data on wiring,
accessories, setting up, operating and maintaining is readily available on
the internet. The radio includes an OAT gauge which will save me a small
amount!
Now on my 6th panel redesign (using the experimental panel designer web
site, which is not quite accurate enough for final fitting)- fun isn't it?-
until you have to pay for the goodies.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
> >From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk>
> >Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
> >
> >
> >Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know I
> >can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
> >
> >Brian Davies kit 454
>
> Brian
> there was a question re approval in the early days, but only because some
> people wanted to use the ICOM A200 as a base station and CAA didn't like
> that. It is approved for airborne use. I have no idea what it's
performance
> is like.
> Graham
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
Hi! Guys.
Just a "rider" to my previous info' on the ICOM unit. in the light of Graham
Singleton's message about the CAA approval and Nick Hammonds notes below. I
know not NOW from where my information came but I don't seek to pass
information on the basis of "hearsay" and was advised by someone in
authority perhaps PFA or their Inspector that the ICOM IC A200 wasn't now
authorised for new Installations.
Having offered that information in good faith I don't intend spending my
'phone expense to verify or otherwise the facts. May I therefore suggest
that the folks who receive this information take the trouble to speak to the
Radiocommunications Agency Branch of the CAA before they spend their cash
possibly unwantonly. It's by the way that my experiences are that it's a
piece of "sh..." and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't
adjust it to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench set it to
the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely
cause of the problem.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nick Hammond
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
Brian,
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The
issue of "approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but
despite a fair amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the
rumours. I suspect this is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by
well meaning people who like bad news and believe everything they hear) that
makes the Internet an unreliable source of information unless you apply a
reasonable degree of skepticism to the information content.
The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a lot
to be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice
features like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the
documentation supplied with the unit is essentially an external wiring
diagram -- no application notes and no information on singal levels or even
the meaning of the abbreviations. I have checked all the Icom websites
(Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and they have nothing useful.
The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and
detailed repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view
was that nothing else would be available from other centres. In other words,
if you want anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own. My
radio came with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies
with this sort of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively
inexpensive VHF Aircraft radios available.
If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of the
features, let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to nut
out.
Best regards,
Nick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca> |
| Subject: | ICOMA200 radio assessments |
"It's by the way that my experiences are that it's apiece of "sh..." and that so
called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't adjust it to suit my installation
nor would they fly in the a/c to try to adjust it more suitably in working
conditions and could only bench set it to
the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely cause of
the problem."
Now Robert,
You say that you don't believe in reacting to hearsay, but then give
us your experiences...........? What are we to consider your experiences? Aren't
they hearsay for us?
The handheld is an aviation form of a very popular amateur radio/marine/.emergency
portable which is tested and run by numerous agencies around the world, so by what
criteria does CAA on the island measure its failure?
Has it been proven not to be the antenna, transmission cable, local
interference, or power swamping, or does CAA just not like some of the correspondence?
That is, who and what are being tested?
Each radio distributor in every parish has an opinion about his/her
agent - and those awarded an agency are not always the best qualified, but simply
the contract attainees. The radio untis don't know which parish they fall
into. Radio (just like flying) incurs the greatest difficulty from political
borders, not science. Admittedly, the three major Nippon makers, Yaesu, ICOM and
Kenwood (AKA Trio) all produce the majority of handheld units around the world
- by that I mean for two million users in ham radio alone - and very few are
awarded the "piece of S....." medal on the basis of unemotional testing.
Perhaps we should hear from a majority first?
Cheers, ferg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Right "O" Ferg
Don't know what all the fuss is about. I installed my Icom A200
new out of the box that I bought at Sun-N-Fun about three years ago + - .
The unit has performed flawlessly. I did install the Europa dipole in
the tail and used a professional SWR meter to tune it. Took a bit of
trimming and re-trimming to get it right. But I got the desired
minimum. I plotted it out and put it in my records. So far I have not
found any nulls in the direction that I travel. All directions seem
fine. I know that proper instillation is always necessary when putting a
transmitter on line. A "CB" radio it isn't. I also installed a fan
behind the panel to blow air around the rear of the transmitter and
transponder. Actually blows between them from the side. I got it at
Radio Shack. Paid about $6 for it. Its a squirrel cage style fan and it
takes little room. For throes of you who ask why, temperatures behind the
panel can get hot. Transmitters and such do not like elevated temps.
around them. So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
the hot air. The vent is a air conditioning vent from a car that had the
shape I wanted. Looks good enough.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
>
> "It's by the way that my experiences are that it's apiece of "sh..."
> and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't adjust it
> to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
> adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench
> set it to
> the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the
> likely cause of the problem."
>
> Now Robert,
> You say that you don't believe in reacting to hearsay,
> but then give us your experiences...........? What are we to
> consider your experiences? Aren't they hearsay for us?
> The handheld is an aviation form of a very popular amateur
> radio/marine/.emergency
> portable which is tested and run by numerous agencies around the
> world, so by what criteria does CAA on the island measure its
> failure?
> Has it been proven not to be the antenna, transmission
> cable, local interference, or power swamping, or does CAA just not
> like some of the correspondence? That is, who and what are being
> tested?
> Each radio distributor in every parish has an opinion
> about his/her agent - and those awarded an agency are not always the
> best qualified, but simply the contract attainees. The radio untis
> don't know which parish they fall into. Radio (just like flying)
> incurs the greatest difficulty from political borders, not science.
> Admittedly, the three major Nippon makers, Yaesu, ICOM and Kenwood
> (AKA Trio) all produce the majority of handheld units around the
> world - by that I mean for two million users in ham radio alone -
> and very few are awarded the "piece of S....." medal on the basis of
> unemotional testing.
> Perhaps we should hear from a majority first?
> Cheers, ferg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments |
James Nelson wrote:
> Transmitters and such do not like elevated temps.
> around them. So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
> a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
> the hot air.
Please excuse some technical commentary here re transmitters, but
elevated temps are moot re the final transmit stages. I fear the
impression we may need to cool a comm box to make it work right.
Whether or not the A200 in the overall can take elevated ambient temps
is one thing, but in xmit function alone forget about it. I've seen it
numerous times on the test bench on various comms.
Aircraft comms are designed for very brief transmissions and low duty
cycle, but in tweaking them for much longer periods, all that happens is
the temps around the final, heat-sinked transistor output stage rises,
like a lot, but not one whit decrease in power output, or even distorted
detected-audio output on the "scope" for that matter. There's a
technical explanation for all this, but to put out 7-8 watts into 50
ohms swinging a fraction 14V (or even less) supply voltage, well there's
ways to do that and get away with it, but ambient temp sensitivity ain't
one of the issues.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ICOMA200 radio assessments |
| From: | "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk(at)kaon.co.nz> |
>>> So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
the hot air. The vent is a air conditioning vent from a car that had the
shape I wanted. Looks good enough.
...or if you push the warm air out of a small slot at the top front of
the panel you end up with a really neat little demister! Just make sure
that the slot is as far forward as possible otherwise you end up with a
reflection on the windscreen.
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
Having started this thread, I feel slightly responsible for this rather
heated debate. I have done the research and this is the result:-
All UK CAA equipment approvals are now carried out through the European JAA
approval system. The CAA now has a website which contains the "AEARS
Database" which has a search engine enabling you to check the approval of
any particular bit of equipment.
The website is very difficult to find, but I eventually found it at
www.caa.co.uk/srg/airworthiness/aea/search.asp
If you type in "VHF Comm" it will give you a list of all the VHF com
manufacturers, and you can then look for a particular part number. This
shows that the Icom AC-200 is approved under approval number LA301011.
So, the equipment is approved, therefore it must work (or, at least pass the
required safety standards). The issue for me is that it is one of the key
systems on the aircraft and I want to be confident that I can get the
necessary technical support if I get problems with the equipment or its
installation. In the UK there seems to be a lack of support. Icom (UK) Ltd
website even denies the existence of the unit!
A pity, because it seems to be good value and those people that resolve the
installation issues seem very happy with it.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
> Hi! Guys.
> Just a "rider" to my previous info' on the ICOM unit. in the light of
Graham
> Singleton's message about the CAA approval and Nick Hammonds notes below.
I
> know not NOW from where my information came but I don't seek to pass
> information on the basis of "hearsay" and was advised by someone in
> authority perhaps PFA or their Inspector that the ICOM IC A200 wasn't now
> authorised for new Installations.
> Having offered that information in good faith I don't intend spending my
> 'phone expense to verify or otherwise the facts. May I therefore suggest
> that the folks who receive this information take the trouble to speak to
the
> Radiocommunications Agency Branch of the CAA before they spend their cash
> possibly unwantonly. It's by the way that my experiences are that it's a
> piece of "sh..." and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't
> adjust it to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
> adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench set it
to
> the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely
> cause of the problem.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nick Hammond
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
>
>
>
> Brian,
>
> >
> > Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
> know
> > I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier
support.
> >
> > Brian Davies kit 454
>
> I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The
> issue of "approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but
> despite a fair amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the
> rumours. I suspect this is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by
> well meaning people who like bad news and believe everything they hear)
that
> makes the Internet an unreliable source of information unless you apply a
> reasonable degree of skepticism to the information content.
>
> The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a
lot
> to be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice
> features like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the
> documentation supplied with the unit is essentially an external wiring
> diagram -- no application notes and no information on singal levels or
even
> the meaning of the abbreviations. I have checked all the Icom websites
> (Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and they have nothing useful.
>
> The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and
> detailed repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view
> was that nothing else would be available from other centres. In other
words,
> if you want anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own.
My
> radio came with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies
> with this sort of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively
> inexpensive VHF Aircraft radios available.
>
> If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of
the
> features, let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to
nut
> out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nick
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
| From: | "Cripps, David" <david.cripps(at)spsystems.com> |
I too have an AC-200 which works well in the Europa. I'm surprised by the comments
of lack of tech support as I sent the unit back to ICOM UK in Kent only a
year ago when a button came loose and I found the people there very helpful. They
have also provided advise over the phone and at their stand at the PFA rally
last year on how to twiddle the potentiometers in the radio body (underneath
the silver sticky labels that cover the access holes in the case) in order to
adjust the auto squelch levels, and they have provided other advise too on aerials
etc. They have also fixed my handheld Icom on a number of occasions, including
sending a part for me to fit myself to save on cost.
I have had no problems with the Radiocomunications Agency (RA) getting the approvals
each year for the renewal of the aircraft radio licence here in the UK.
The contact I have at Icom(UK)is Jon Brooks, although I have spoken to several
others there as well who have been helpful.
Tel: 01227 741741
Fax: 01227 741742
e-mail:jonb(at)icomuk.co.uk
Unit 9,
Sea Street
Herne Bay
Kent CT6 8LD
United Kingdom
Hope this helps someone.
David
GBWJH
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davies [mailto:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
Having started this thread, I feel slightly responsible for this rather
heated debate. I have done the research and this is the result:-
All UK CAA equipment approvals are now carried out through the European JAA
approval system. The CAA now has a website which contains the "AEARS
Database" which has a search engine enabling you to check the approval of
any particular bit of equipment.
The website is very difficult to find, but I eventually found it at
www.caa.co.uk/srg/airworthiness/aea/search.asp
If you type in "VHF Comm" it will give you a list of all the VHF com
manufacturers, and you can then look for a particular part number. This
shows that the Icom AC-200 is approved under approval number LA301011.
So, the equipment is approved, therefore it must work (or, at least pass the
required safety standards). The issue for me is that it is one of the key
systems on the aircraft and I want to be confident that I can get the
necessary technical support if I get problems with the equipment or its
installation. In the UK there seems to be a lack of support. Icom (UK) Ltd
website even denies the existence of the unit!
A pity, because it seems to be good value and those people that resolve the
installation issues seem very happy with it.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
> Hi! Guys.
> Just a "rider" to my previous info' on the ICOM unit. in the light of
Graham
> Singleton's message about the CAA approval and Nick Hammonds notes below.
I
> know not NOW from where my information came but I don't seek to pass
> information on the basis of "hearsay" and was advised by someone in
> authority perhaps PFA or their Inspector that the ICOM IC A200 wasn't now
> authorised for new Installations.
> Having offered that information in good faith I don't intend spending my
> 'phone expense to verify or otherwise the facts. May I therefore suggest
> that the folks who receive this information take the trouble to speak to
the
> Radiocommunications Agency Branch of the CAA before they spend their cash
> possibly unwantonly. It's by the way that my experiences are that it's a
> piece of "sh..." and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't
> adjust it to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
> adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench set it
to
> the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely
> cause of the problem.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nick Hammond
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
>
>
>
> Brian,
>
> >
> > Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
> know
> > I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier
support.
> >
> > Brian Davies kit 454
>
> I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The
> issue of "approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but
> despite a fair amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the
> rumours. I suspect this is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by
> well meaning people who like bad news and believe everything they hear)
that
> makes the Internet an unreliable source of information unless you apply a
> reasonable degree of skepticism to the information content.
>
> The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a
lot
> to be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice
> features like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the
> documentation supplied with the unit is essentially an external wiring
> diagram -- no application notes and no information on singal levels or
even
> the meaning of the abbreviations. I have checked all the Icom websites
> (Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and they have nothing useful.
>
> The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and
> detailed repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view
> was that nothing else would be available from other centres. In other
words,
> if you want anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own.
My
> radio came with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies
> with this sort of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively
> inexpensive VHF Aircraft radios available.
>
> If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of
the
> features, let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to
nut
> out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nick
>
>
Visit SP at stand 1130 at Wind Power 2003, Austin, Texas, 18th-21st May
**********************************************************************************************
All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions)
of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with
reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions.
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
or retain this message or any part of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bizzarro(at)easynet.co.uk |
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
I thought that I might add what ICOM said to me at the PFA rally last year.
Basically they are no longer supplying the A200 unit because it no longer meets
the CAA spec. What happend was (according to ICOM rep) is that the CAA changed
the requirements for radios and the old ICOM A200 no longer meets those
requirements although if you already own one you can still get it licensed.
ICOM are no longer providing the A200 because it no longer meets the
requirements. I asked them if they were going to recertify the radio, and they
said no because the UK market is not big enough to justify the cost.
Cheers
Ed
Quoting "Cripps, David" :
>
>
> I too have an AC-200 which works well in the Europa. I'm surprised by the
> comments of lack of tech support as I sent the unit back to ICOM UK in Kent
> only a year ago when a button came loose and I found the people there very
> helpful. They have also provided advise over the phone and at their stand at
> the PFA rally last year on how to twiddle the potentiometers in the radio
> body (underneath the silver sticky labels that cover the access holes in the
> case) in order to adjust the auto squelch levels, and they have provided
> other advise too on aerials etc. They have also fixed my handheld Icom on a
> number of occasions, including sending a part for me to fit myself to save on
> cost.
>
> I have had no problems with the Radiocomunications Agency (RA) getting the
> approvals each year for the renewal of the aircraft radio licence here in the
> UK.
>
> The contact I have at Icom(UK)is Jon Brooks, although I have spoken to
> several others there as well who have been helpful.
>
> Tel: 01227 741741
> Fax: 01227 741742
> e-mail:jonb(at)icomuk.co.uk
>
> Unit 9,
> Sea Street
> Herne Bay
> Kent CT6 8LD
> United Kingdom
>
> Hope this helps someone.
>
> David
> GBWJH
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Davies [mailto:bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk]
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
>
>
> Having started this thread, I feel slightly responsible for this rather
> heated debate. I have done the research and this is the result:-
>
> All UK CAA equipment approvals are now carried out through the European JAA
> approval system. The CAA now has a website which contains the "AEARS
> Database" which has a search engine enabling you to check the approval of
> any particular bit of equipment.
>
> The website is very difficult to find, but I eventually found it at
> www.caa.co.uk/srg/airworthiness/aea/search.asp
>
> If you type in "VHF Comm" it will give you a list of all the VHF com
> manufacturers, and you can then look for a particular part number. This
> shows that the Icom AC-200 is approved under approval number LA301011.
>
> So, the equipment is approved, therefore it must work (or, at least pass the
> required safety standards). The issue for me is that it is one of the key
> systems on the aircraft and I want to be confident that I can get the
> necessary technical support if I get problems with the equipment or its
> installation. In the UK there seems to be a lack of support. Icom (UK) Ltd
> website even denies the existence of the unit!
>
> A pity, because it seems to be good value and those people that resolve the
> installation issues seem very happy with it.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
> To:
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi! Guys.
> > Just a "rider" to my previous info' on the ICOM unit. in the light of
> Graham
> > Singleton's message about the CAA approval and Nick Hammonds notes below.
> I
> > know not NOW from where my information came but I don't seek to pass
> > information on the basis of "hearsay" and was advised by someone in
> > authority perhaps PFA or their Inspector that the ICOM IC A200 wasn't now
> > authorised for new Installations.
> > Having offered that information in good faith I don't intend spending my
> > 'phone expense to verify or otherwise the facts. May I therefore suggest
> > that the folks who receive this information take the trouble to speak to
> the
> > Radiocommunications Agency Branch of the CAA before they spend their cash
> > possibly unwantonly. It's by the way that my experiences are that it's a
> > piece of "sh..." and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't
> > adjust it to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
> > adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench set it
> to
> > the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely
> > cause of the problem.
> > Regards
> > Bob Harrison G-PTAG
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nick Hammond
> > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > >
> > > Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
> > know
> > > I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier
> support.
> > >
> > > Brian Davies kit 454
> >
> > I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The
> > issue of "approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but
> > despite a fair amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the
> > rumours. I suspect this is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by
> > well meaning people who like bad news and believe everything they hear)
> that
> > makes the Internet an unreliable source of information unless you apply a
> > reasonable degree of skepticism to the information content.
> >
> > The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a
> lot
> > to be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice
> > features like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the
> > documentation supplied with the unit is essentially an external wiring
> > diagram -- no application notes and no information on singal levels or
> even
> > the meaning of the abbreviations. I have checked all the Icom websites
> > (Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and they have nothing useful.
> >
> > The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and
> > detailed repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view
> > was that nothing else would be available from other centres. In other
> words,
> > if you want anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own.
> My
> > radio came with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies
> > with this sort of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively
> > inexpensive VHF Aircraft radios available.
> >
> > If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of
> the
> > features, let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to
> nut
> > out.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
>
>
> Visit SP at stand 1130 at Wind Power 2003, Austin, Texas, 18th-21st May
>
>
********************************************************************************
**************
> All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the
> Conditions)
> of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
> or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
>
> Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
>
> in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given
> with
> reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the
> Conditions.
>
> The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
> are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
> Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
> professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
> legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
> person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
> intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
> or retain this message or any part of it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.easynetdial.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 Radio Transcievers. |
Hi! Brian.
No need to apologise friend especially when it's you looking for help.
I understood your original request was for ICOM IC A200 and notice that you
are now referring to ICOM AC 200 ? Don't suppose this is the "two stools"
we are all falling between?
Concerning the adjustments under the silver paper...... if the agents in
Wolverhampton can only tweak them to certain levels within the regulations
as per oscilloscope monitoring I guess that to regulate them "blind" may
incur the wrath of the Radio Agency. But I'm only a novice who it has been
suggested seems to "like bad news"!
A useful item to have within the scope of the radio is two channel
monitoring if you intend joining any group fly out events involving loose
formation flying. The unit Ivor mentioned has that facility, you may wish to
consider that since it would have been useful during our recent trip round
Ireland.
BTW ,Eddie Hatcher, thanks for the info which seems to substsntiate my
position somewhat.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Davies
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
Having started this thread, I feel slightly responsible for this rather
heated debate. I have done the research and this is the result:-
All UK CAA equipment approvals are now carried out through the European JAA
approval system. The CAA now has a website which contains the "AEARS
Database" which has a search engine enabling you to check the approval of
any particular bit of equipment.
The website is very difficult to find, but I eventually found it at
www.caa.co.uk/srg/airworthiness/aea/search.asp
If you type in "VHF Comm" it will give you a list of all the VHF com
manufacturers, and you can then look for a particular part number. This
shows that the Icom AC-200 is approved under approval number LA301011.
So, the equipment is approved, therefore it must work (or, at least pass the
required safety standards). The issue for me is that it is one of the key
systems on the aircraft and I want to be confident that I can get the
necessary technical support if I get problems with the equipment or its
installation. In the UK there seems to be a lack of support. Icom (UK) Ltd
website even denies the existence of the unit!
A pity, because it seems to be good value and those people that resolve the
installation issues seem very happy with it.
Brian Davies kit 454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Singleton <graham(at)gflight.f9.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Static Charges and how to avoid them |
>There's no possibility a static inside the vent tubing. Fuel vapor flow
>does not cause static. Any fuel flowing in the vent line requires
>bubbling or sufficient velocity for turbulent flow to cause any static
>at all. In any case, the tiny I.D. of the tube should should be
>insufficient surface area to store enough spark energy for ignition.
>Bonding the outside metal tube to the filler cap will do no harm but
>accomplish nothing that I can see.
However, the metal tube will conduct any stored energy, and the flow of air
and eventually fuel is very rapid. You can hear the hiss as it comes out,
also see the convection of the dense vapour.
I can't remember where the energy is stored in a capacitor, is it the metal
or is it in the dielectric? I am looking for an understanding of what was
observed, not trying to prove it can't happen. It did happen.
Bonding the tube to the filler cap flange may well be a very good thing to do.
Graham
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Davies" <bdavies(at)dircon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Icom IC A200 |
Woops- just a typo. The approved unit is the Icom IC A200.
Two channel monitoring is a good point.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 Radio
Transcievers.
>
> Hi! Brian.
> No need to apologise friend especially when it's you looking for help.
> I understood your original request was for ICOM IC A200 and notice that
you
> are now referring to ICOM AC 200 ? Don't suppose this is the "two stools"
> we are all falling between?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Davies
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
>
>
> Having started this thread, I feel slightly responsible for this rather
> heated debate. I have done the research and this is the result:-
>
> All UK CAA equipment approvals are now carried out through the European
JAA
> approval system. The CAA now has a website which contains the "AEARS
> Database" which has a search engine enabling you to check the approval of
> any particular bit of equipment.
>
> The website is very difficult to find, but I eventually found it at
> www.caa.co.uk/srg/airworthiness/aea/search.asp
>
> If you type in "VHF Comm" it will give you a list of all the VHF com
> manufacturers, and you can then look for a particular part number. This
> shows that the Icom AC-200 is approved under approval number LA301011.
>
> So, the equipment is approved, therefore it must work (or, at least pass
the
> required safety standards). The issue for me is that it is one of the key
> systems on the aircraft and I want to be confident that I can get the
> necessary technical support if I get problems with the equipment or its
> installation. In the UK there seems to be a lack of support. Icom (UK)
Ltd
> website even denies the existence of the unit!
>
> A pity, because it seems to be good value and those people that resolve
the
> installation issues seem very happy with it.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Sticky pre-skinned surfaces |
I believe they are not 100% resistant to the epoxy systems - which is why
rubber gloves are recommended for layups. That said, I don't wear latex
gloves for extended periods (they are so easily torn anyway) so slow
permeability to the surface contaminants is not really an issue as they
simply would not have time to diffuse through.
Is anyone out there an expert on latex or chemical protection who can
comment?
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Sweeting
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sticky pre-skinned surfaces
Wasnt it mentioned latex gloves are permeable to the irritant or is this
just the case for pvc based disposible gloves??
Cheers
Paul.
Paul Sweeting
Europa XS Monowheel 558
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Davey [mailto:jeremycrdavey(at)btinternet.com]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sticky pre-skinned surfaces
John,
All my Stage 1 components have this to one extent or other. Indeed, at the
time we went into it in great depth with the factory and SP Systems (who
make the resin). Apparently it is a result of contaminants emerging from the
resin and reacting with water out of the atmosphere (which is exacerbated by
slow hardener being used and tallies with your weather report) and will need
to be cleaned up prior to finishing. It is not of structural significance.
Having said it is not structurally significant, it is worth taking
precautions for the sake of your health when handling these (and all)
layups. I generally wear latex gloves when handling cured layups, or wash my
hands promptly afterwards. I do not want to acquire an allergy for the sake
of a few hundred disposable gloves and a little care.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
>>There's no possibility a static inside the vent tubing. Fuel vapor flow
>>does not cause static. Any fuel flowing in the vent line requires
>>bubbling or sufficient velocity for turbulent flow to cause any static
>>at all.
>
> However, the metal tube will conduct any stored energy, and the flow of air
> and eventually fuel is very rapid. You can hear the hiss as it comes out,
> also see the convection of the dense vapour.
> I can't remember where the energy is stored in a capacitor, is it the metal
> or is it in the dielectric? I am looking for an understanding of what was
> observed, not trying to prove it can't happen. It did happen.
>
> Bonding the tube to the filler cap flange may well be a very good thing to do.
>
> Graham
In a capacitor, the charge sits on the surface of the metal, just like
static. esdjournal.com (as in electrostatic discharge) has a excellent
explanation of how static charges are produced, and there's much which
is not intuitive and even contrary to folklore. For example, it's
rubbing unlike things against each other which produces static, right?
Nope. As to vapor, in natural gas mains, it's not the flowing gas
molecules which produce the static, it's the dirt particles in the gas
bouncing off the walls of the pipe.
I think the only important question is whether there's any protection
method in a plastic airplane which will allow one to relax the rules for
safe fueling practices. There's no harm in bonding only these two
together, but if they are also tied the aircraft's electrical ground,
it's back to the lightning-protection problem of flying an incendiary bomb.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
| From: | James H Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
Ed,
Don't you just love the plutocrats( I think it describes them)
and their babble. God help us in the colonies if WE let it get as bad as
you have it.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RK Hallett III" <n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | tail wheel mount |
The BM says to remove the inter sheet of glass before laying up 3 layers of BID
for the tail wheel mount. My XS kit came with multi layers of peel plied glass
in this area. It appears ready to start making up the mount without as the
manual states, removing that inter layer. England is closed for the day... so,
anyone have a thought?
Thanks,
Ralph
Mono Motorglider
Reno
________________________________________________________________________________
Am I missing something?. The plans show one hard spring steel washer on the
bushing on the sbd spar tip.. There are two washers in the kit ??. Doen the
other end need one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
On page 27-12 of my XS manual is fig. 10 showing where both 281315 washers
go. And actually it's the spar cup, not the stbd. tip that one washer is
attached to.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DvdPar(at)aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Spar Pins
Am I missing something?. The plans show one hard spring steel washer on the
bushing on the sbd spar tip.. There are two washers in the kit ??. Doen
the
other end need one?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | tail wheel mount |
Hi Ralph, Mine looked much the same as the rest of the inside of the
fuselage, don't remember it looking like it was peel plied. I think the idea
is to get rid of the foam, solid layups to handle the bolt and loads. Does
it look like the foam sandwich is continuous through the area?
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RK Hallett III
Subject: Europa-List: tail wheel mount
The BM says to remove the inter sheet of glass before laying up 3 layers of
BID for the tail wheel mount. My XS kit came with multi layers of peel
plied glass in this area. It appears ready to start making up the mount
without as the manual states, removing that inter layer. England is closed
for the day... so, anyone have a thought?
Thanks,
Ralph
Mono Motorglider
Reno
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outrigger mod |
Hi Ferg,
I would be interested in the outrigger pivot mod. Please send me necessary
info and cost.
thanks
craig ellison
A205
Silverton, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO(at)rac.ca>
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger mod
>
> Hi,
> I sent out a message advising that I had produced the two
tubes
> necessary for the recommended oturigger pivot mod. Of the several
> correspondents contacted, only one replied - and he was surprised I was
> still at it. The mod involves beefing up the pivot to reduce inevitable
> 'play' and Nigel Charles provided scarce tubing bits because the
acquisition
> involved considerably more minimal tubing than needed by one person.
> I have done the same (for those of North American persuasion)
as
> far as the tubing is concerned. The other mod parts are more easily
acquired
> locally - and the cost is negligible.
> So this is general message to request those who were
interested
> to confirm I can send out the kits.
> Cheers,
> ferg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DuaneFamly(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical bonds in the
plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to operate (lights,
engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that bonds the various
nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a single point that one can attach
a ramp
ground wire to and the container that the fuel is presently in when
refueling.
For those people that drive up to a fuel pump at a gas station and insert a
fuel nozzle to fill the tank, anyone have any special safety tips for this
procedure?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Trigear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Microair transponder |
Tried fitting a microair transponder to my plane but appear to have problem. 2
transponders both new both do the same.
All the segments are black on the display and if you look from the side you can
just see the number underneath. But it just isn't useable.
I'm not using alt encoder etc so have connected just the 2 live pins and 2 ground
pins.
And Aerial of course
Regards
Kev T
Anyone any ideas
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair transponder |
Kevin,
Use the backlight by pressing the ON button lightly once for the first level of
backlighting, and twice for the second level of backlighting.
In the instructions.
Cheers,
Tim
Kevin Taylor wrote:
>
> Tried fitting a microair transponder to my plane but appear to have problem.
2 transponders both new both do the same.
>
> All the segments are black on the display and if you look from the side you can
just see the number underneath. But it just isn't useable.
>
> I'm not using alt encoder etc so have connected just the 2 live pins and 2 ground
pins.
>
> And Aerial of course
>
> Regards
>
> Kev T
>
> Anyone any ideas
>
> ---
>
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 3 3515166
email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike" <mp.gamble(at)virgin.net> |
| Subject: | bonding top wing panel |
Does everybody have 2x12ft sections of 1inch section steel tube?
If not then how did you weight the panel for the bonding process?
Thanks
Mike Gamble
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks kevin, second look and you are correct, but still have a second
washer?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann(at)gte.net> |
Dave, figure 10 on page 27-12 shows both washers location. Step 14 tells how
the second one goes in.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DvdPar(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spar Pins
Thanks kevin, second look and you are correct, but still have a second
washer?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
Kevin, thanks I,ve read it properly now.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
DuaneFamly(at)aol.com wrote:
> So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical bonds
> in the plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to
> operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that
> bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a
> single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the
> container that the fuel is presently in when refueling.
There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be involved, but
a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will attach
the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond the
metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler to that
effect and provide a means of attaching the clip.
If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling system"
means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more hazardous.
What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity of
those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily raising
its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some way,
then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge if the
conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static deep
inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an ungrounded
metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where static
charges tend to remain where they accumulate.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Taylor" <kevin(at)eastyorkshire.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair transponder |
Tim,
Its not the back light all the black segments are on the back light makes no
difference.
Thanks
Kev T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Microair transponder
>
> Kevin,
> Use the backlight by pressing the ON button lightly once for the first
level of backlighting, and twice for the second level of backlighting.
> In the instructions.
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> Kevin Taylor wrote:
>
> >
> > Tried fitting a microair transponder to my plane but appear to have
problem. 2 transponders both new both do the same.
> >
> > All the segments are black on the display and if you look from the side
you can just see the number underneath. But it just isn't useable.
> >
> > I'm not using alt encoder etc so have connected just the 2 live pins and
2 ground pins.
> >
> > And Aerial of course
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kev T
> >
> > Anyone any ideas
> >
> > ---
> >
>
> --
> Timothy P Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch,
> NEW ZEALAND
>
> Ph. 0064 3 3515166
> email ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
> Mobile 025 2649325
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "david joyce" <davidjoyce(at)beeb.net> |
Am contemplating flying to the Staunig Rally and wondered whether anyone has already
done their homework to find out up to date regulations for overflying or
landing in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Denmark in a Permit aircraft. I know
that we need extra insurance for Gemany ( 3 million Euros, I hope) and Denmark
(60mill kroners, I hope) , but what is the score for prior permission and noise
certificates? David Joyce G-XSDJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
| From: | "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond(at)saabsystems.com.au> |
Fred,
I agree with you that bonding other metal parts in the fuel system to the filler
cap is probably less safe rather than more so. However if fuel drains are fitted,
I think it's a good idea to ground them independently. Although it's a fairly
remote possibility the last thing you need is a spark when you are lying
on the ground draining fuel!
Best regards,
Nick
Original Message
---------------
From: Fred Fillinger <fillinger(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them
DuaneFamly(at)aol.com wrote:
> So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical bonds
> in the plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to
> operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that
> bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a
> single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the
> container that the fuel is presently in when refueling.
There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be involved, but
a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will attach
the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond the
metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler to that
effect and provide a means of attaching the clip.
If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling system"
means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more hazardous.
What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity of
those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily raising
its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some way,
then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge if the
conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static deep
inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an ungrounded
metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where static
charges tend to remain where they accumulate.
Regards,
Fred F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev(at)ukonline.co.uk> |
Hi! David.
We've never landed in Belgium so can't help there. No problem with Holland
and Denmark, and we made a diversionary landing in Germany on the way to
Barkaby onwards to Stauning the following weekend last year without any
problem. Oh! now I have my brain engaged we also landed at Atting
when I went to the MT Propeller Factory and on the way back landed at Mains
Fenton with no problems, so Germany is OK. No requests for documents except
occassionally we have had to submit papers to Dutch customs at Lelystad.
Usual Flight plans needed to be submitted across all boundaries. Watch out
for a very narrow and low corridor to the South of Schiphol on approach to
Lelystad though. We slightly "busted" it once, inspite of being in contact
with Dutch Military
and had the usual telephone call request, but no worries they only used it
as a "reminder". But the charts are a little confusing just there,
difference between 1500ft and 1200 ft as I remember.
You really need to "play the lilly white man" passing Ostend keep him in
good contact because he can be very "techy" .... he gave another guy a good
roasting on air once when we went past!(Mind you he deserved it!)
All EU flying is now "harmonised" for Permit Aircraft but of course but
specific authority is still required by Norway not being in the EU.
BTW Sweden is a good place to go, fuel is 1/3rd our prices(almost worth
divering there for a fill up!) and foreigners get to buy a 28 pass giving
as many landings as you like and all overnight parking for a week. But all
flights need to be on flight plans because of emergency services
notification (lots of trees lakes and outcrops of rock! Just the place for a
misfire, been there and done it!!!!)
Hope to see you there?
Roger Anderson,I believe, is planning to go to Stauning with a German Fly In
on the way back.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
Subject: Europa-List: Denmark trip
Am contemplating flying to the Staunig Rally and wondered whether anyone
has already done their homework to find out up to date regulations for
overflying or landing in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Denmark in a Permit
aircraft. I know that we need extra insurance for Gemany ( 3 million Euros,
I hope) and Denmark (60mill kroners, I hope) , but what is the score for
prior permission and noise certificates? David Joyce G-XSDJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
| From: | James Nelson <europajim(at)juno.com> |
No, It should be all on one common bond. Ground at one point should be
ground for all the systems.
Jim Nelson
>
> So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical
> bonds in the
> plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to operate
> (lights,
> engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that bonds the various
>
> nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a single point that one
> can attach a ramp
> ground wire to and the container that the fuel is presently in when
>
> refueling.
>
> For those people that drive up to a fuel pump at a gas station and
> insert a
> fuel nozzle to fill the tank, anyone have any special safety tips
> for this
> procedure?
>
> Mike Duane A207
> Redding, California
> XS Trigear
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |