Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-gl
September 30, 2008 - October 07, 2008
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
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Subject
Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time
to make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the
dreaded spark plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't
like the idea of putting the probe under a head bolt as some have
done, fearing the idea of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper
terminal, so I followed another poster's idea and drilled and tapped
a hole in the head between, and slightly below, the spark plug
locations. Now I find that the temperature readings are quite a bit
above the reported 10 degrees or so difference (from the spark plug
locations) that I have read about for the head bolt locations. I have
looked into this and have decided that the spark plug probes (mine
anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment point...the point
where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if you will,
(and it is NOT the area that actually touches the head)...one-half
inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow that goes past
this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further insulated by
having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even further from
the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe this 1/2"
of separation from the head is enough to place the "business end" of
the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
CHT's of an average of about 275=B0 F, while I now see my CHT's read
about 350-360=B0 F, and up to about 385=B0 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @
80=B0 F ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling
down period after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My
thermocouple attachment point...the business end...is now closer to
the head, and tucked between the head and a fin instead of sticking
up into the airflow, so I can accept the higher readings, especially
when the engine is running so strong now and climbing better than I
recall it doing before the engine breakdown. I might add that each
flight sees lower CHT's as the engine breaks in.
Any comments?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Thanks Gary, and by the way, someone smarter than me (and that
includes nearly the world population) suggested that I put one of the
other t'couples back under the spark plug and do a side-by-side
comparison....DUH! why didn't I think of that? I have just
resurrected one of the spark plug terminals and will rob a
thermocouple from an adjacent head, install the plug terminal, and do
that very thing. I think it best to do a flight first and record the
temps that I'm getting, so I can then do a cyl-to-cyl temp variation
chart, then with the one cylinder rigged with the two t'couples,
interpret/guess what the variation between the two locations should
be...within reason of course, then apply this to the other cylinders.
Interesting that you get away with the gasket not being right next to
the head. When Jabiru says to do the gasket removal, t'couple
placement, gasket re-installation, they are creating a lot of work
for us guys with all 4 spark plugs so being monitored. Why haven't
THEY (Jabiru) done their homework, and sorted all this out for us?
There are times that I think that Jabiru hires only engineers who
also have a law degree! (sorry to all you lawyers out there, but this
whole litigation climate in this country and others SUCKS!!)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 30, 2008, at 2:28 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn
>
> I have my CHT probe directly under the Spark Plug but I don't
> remove the plug gasket so it is sandwiched under the gasket
> directly on the head.
>
> This is the way most of the Aussies have their CHT probes set up. I
> never have any signs of leak either.
>
> My CHT's read as we discussed earlier 275 - 295 Cruise and now as
> it is getting warmer here I am seeing up to 330 in climb.
>
> I recently modified my lower cowl again to get more air out.
>
> I will get some comments from the factory about t=your findings
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 28/09/2008 09:43 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com, jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com,
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time
> to make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the
> dreaded spark plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't
> like the idea of putting the probe under a head bolt as some have
> done, fearing the idea of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper
> terminal, so I followed another poster's idea and drilled and tapped
> a hole in the head between, and slightly below, the spark plug
> locations. Now I find that the temperature readings are quite a bit
> above the reported 10 degrees or so difference (from the spark plug
> locations) that I have read about for the head bolt locations. I have
> looked into this and have decided that the spark plug probes (mine
> anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment point...the point
> where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if you will,
> (and it is NOT the area that actually touches the head)...one-half
> inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow that goes past
> this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further insulated by
> having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even further from
> the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe this 1/2"
> of separation from the head is enough to place the "business end" of
> the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
> CHT's of an average of about 275 F, while I now see my CHT's read
> about 350-360 F, and up to about 385 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @
> 80 F ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling
> down period after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My
> thermocouple attachment point...the business end...is now closer to
> the head, and tucked between the head and a fin instead of sticking
> up into the airflow, so I can accept the higher readings, especially
> when the engine is running so strong now and climbing better than I
> recall it doing before the engine breakdown. I might add that each
> flight sees lower CHT's as the engine breaks in.
> Any comments?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
I use the flapperons (about 10 degrees or less) for nose down trim at cruis
e speeds (60-70 mph). As power is reduced, flapperons return to neutral. Wi
th no flaps and cruise power, airplane will climb. My CG is dead-center of
the range.
-
You must get egt gauges Bob. With a 2 stroke, it is probably the most impor
tant engine instrument on your panel. It will tell you immediately if mixtu
re is too lean (High egt) and prevent melting holes in your pistons. Checki
ng the color of your plugs frequently will also tell you alot about fuel bu
rn (lean-rich). You're shooting for a light brown color. No black soot (too
rich) or gray ash (too lean). Mike Stratmann wrote a good article ("Part 9
") on reading plugs. Check it out at: -http://www.800-airwolf.com/article
s.htm
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
The cylinder head is gray, so it's a model 90. I believe the "blue head" di
dn't come out until 1991-92 and mine was flying by then.
-
Hard to believe that using flaperons for trim would increase drag that much
, although I know as soon as I pull on the flap lever the nose tips down a
*lot* (the difference between seeing the runway and flying blind) and I hav
e to add power. I can also reset the trim tab for neutral stick - only with
full flap does it not trim out but at that setting it's like having air br
akes.
-
How much flap do you need to add for trim? How does it fly with no "flaps"
- nose up or nose down? Maybe it's basically tail-heavy and you need to add
flap (ie drag) to fly level? As you add speed the nose tends to pitch up,
so you add flap(drag) to counteract? Sorry so many questions but I have nev
er used the flaps for trim so don't know. The PFA (oversight for UK KF buil
ds) issues a build document that basically says using flaps for trim is bad
, and describes the elevator trim installation instead.
-
I don't have EGT gauges but should probably look into that, I feel left out
.
-
I changed the plugs and wires not too long ago and haven't checked since, s
hould be about due. I had to change them for a different type because the p
lug wires had a tendency to get loose. I will inspect the plugs after fixin
g the water temp gauge and reserve warning sensor light problems are fixed.
What's the ratio on these things - 15 minutes of repair per hour used? ;-)
Almost as bad as a chainsaw!
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 6:11 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
If the cylinder head is natural metal colored (gray) it's the model 90. If
the head is blue it's the 99.
-
I don't have elevator trim so I use the flaperons instead. I realize this m
akes an already draggy-airplane draggier still but it's simple and I have
no complaints about the flight characteristics or engine performance other
than the relatively high fuel consumption (and low TBO) which is typical o
f two strokes. Someday I might install a trim tab if it will save fuel at c
ruise.
-
WOT my 582-yields about 5800 rpm on the same prop you're swinging, so you
r'e pitched a little finer. My empty wt is 535, with me and typical fuel (1
0 gal), TOW is about 750. Climbs out at 1000-1100 fpm (WOT) with egt's at 1
050-1100 degrees.
-
What are your egt's running? How do your plugs look?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
-
-
-
-
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 10:52 AM
It certainly sounds atypical from all the posts I have seen here, but it is
spot on to what it says in the Owners Manual.
-
Here's some facts:
The engine was purchased in 1989 so I assume that is a "gray head"
It went for about 600 hours before a complete rebuild
It is now a little over 200 hours since the rebuild
I have the optional ground-adjustable GSC props and I think the "B" reducti
on gearbox
My weight-and-balance shows an empty weight of 525 lbs
With me and-typical fuel = 732 lbs
When I am solo I rarely go WOT, 6000 rpm has more than enough power, max rp
m is posted as 6300
I typically cruise at 5000-5500, descend at 4000, idle at 3000
-
I *never* use flaperons for trim, I have a horiz stab tab that works great.
I know one time I did a short-field takeoff and cruised for a while at 1 n
otch of flaps, I had a *lot* of trouble maintaining cruise and was no doubt
burning a lot. Personally I think my model 2 is light, fairly clean (no ad
ded fairings no),-and trim. Now if only I could say the same for myself!
-
Personally I was a bit worried I was running a bit lean, especially with wa
ter temps high recently. But since the burn rate is exactly on spec and the
temp gauge/sensor has actually failed I am not as worried.
-
Spot anything there that might make the difference?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I don't know that mine's set up any differently. I adjusted it per the book
. At 140 hrs, it runs great and the plugs look like just-they're supposed
to. I'm interested in how you get a 582 to average a 2.5 g/hr fuel burn. N
ow that's atypical.
-
A 582-90 is the "gray head." The "blue head" is a 582-99.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 7:07 PM
Ok, getting empirical (in the UK-it was called "anally retentive")...
-
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
-
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I shou
ld go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on-my 1
qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5 hour
s and I recall topping it up-when it reached-the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
-
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's
a "582-90"?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles ar
e black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables-more precisely and get back to you.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 11:22 AM
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is proba
bly every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off =
1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
-
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
-
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but i
t looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems t
o use about a pint an hour.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 9:15 PM
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward com
plete. There is a round-steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight tub
e.-The tank-looks as if-it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question i
s, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big
-of an oil reservoir tank?
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Gearbox wear |
Hi Cory.
-
I have the 3:1 C-Box. Only issue I've had was "slippage" which produced a r
eally scary over-rev condition. Fortunately, this was on the ground while d
oing a break-in run-up. Turns out there was a service bulletin on that so t
he box came off and went to LEAF for repair/upgrade. No problems since, eit
her with backlash or making metal.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Kitfox 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, corbob13 wrote:
From: corbob13 <corbob13(at)netnet.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Gearbox wear
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 8:42 PM
Guys (especially Dave),
My plane's in for annual and my A&P is hesitating to sing the book
because of an issue with the gearbox. When he drained the lube he noticed
a lot
of very fine metal particles in it. He's also worried about the amount of
backlash in the gears. I thought the backlash was a little much but since
I've only got a few hours on my engine from an overhaul I've ignored
it. He compared the amount of backlash to other planes on the field with
similar setups and found the others to have little to no backlash in the ge
ar
sets.
I spoke to LEAF, who did the overhaul, and they said it was normal, both th
e
metal and the backlash. I asked at what level the backlash should be a con
cern,
but they said there was no limit.
What kind of experiences have other had with their gearboxes? Do you see a
ny
amount of metal particles in the gear oil? How about backlash? I have a 5
82
model 90 with a "B" box.
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6841#206841
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Even IF there was a weight savings, it would not be a good choice safety wise to
have an underpowered engine on you plane. The extra 14 HP will make a big
difference in climb rates, there have been many many accidents where the pilot
was close did not have quite enough power to make it.... Or to get himself out
of trouble.
The other issue to consider is power failure after takeoff. If you lose your engine
after takeoff, you will be a lot higher with the 582 than you would be with
the 503, giving you more options and time to find a better place to land.
Power = More safety.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6925#206925
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
I have dug out some build documentation - two MANDATORY modifications issued
by the PFA. The first describes adding the horizontal trim tab for those who
have already built the stabilisers and those that hadn't, mine has
completely reworked tubing on the starboard side to allow for an inbuilt
tab.
The second states: "Original equipment on Kitfox does not provide for a
positive location 'gate' on the flap control lever. It was original intended
that the plane be trimmed by use of the flaps. However flight tests indicate
a more suitable situation would be to use a trim tab (adjustable) on the
elevator and use the flaps as flaps only. This is the recommended practice.
In this situation 15 degrees of flap is the maximum required in any
situation. Hence a suitable gate is required that can be clamped to the
diagonal tube framing floor to seat that will restrain total flap lever
travel to 0 - 15 degrees in say 5 degree steps"
Mine has 3 notches: 0, 15, and something between. The first "notch" adds
about 90% lift and 10% drag (% of the total effect), used for short
take-offs and nose-down on approach. The 2nd notch (15) adds 10% lift and
90% drag. I'd have to guess that your adding "10 degrees or less" is adding
a *lot* of drag at cruise speeds. I never use flap until I am down to about
55 mph approach speed, or remove it until well off the ground on take off;
in fact it is placarded never to use flaps at all above maneuvering speed,
70 mph.
EGT gauges - I looked on AircraftSpruce.com and there is a wide range of
types and prices. Can you (or anyone on the list) give recommendations for
my gray head 582 please. Also - what sensors and where do they mount?
Spark plugs - I will pull them all next time I am "under the bonnet", which
should be later today, and get back to you on the condition.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 10:20 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I use the flapperons (about 10 degrees or less) for nose down trim at cruise
speeds (60-70 mph). As power is reduced, flapperons return to neutral. With
no flaps and cruise power, airplane will climb. My CG is dead-center of the
range.
You must get egt gauges Bob. With a 2 stroke, it is probably the most
important engine instrument on your panel. It will tell you immediately if
mixture is too lean (High egt) and prevent melting holes in your pistons.
Checking the color of your plugs frequently will also tell you alot about
fuel burn (lean-rich). You're shooting for a light brown color. No black
soot (too rich) or gray ash (too lean). Mike Stratmann wrote a good article
("Part 9") on reading plugs. Check it out at:
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
I haven't been following this thread closely but in my own experience I
mounted a CHT probe on a Quicksilver MX and removed the washer per
instructions and soon thereafter had a plug back out almost causing an
emergency landing in a bad spot. I put a plug in WITH the washer and never
had another problem.
Pete
III 912
Hell Paso, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2-stroke oil |
From: | "Perkins, Mike" <Michael.Perkins(at)Rauland.com> |
Oh, gosh. Here I go. . . I promised myself I'd never discuss 2-cycle oil
again in my life.
After the first 100 hours on my 532 and using AV-2 the whole time, I had
to replace the rings because they'd gotten stuck in the ring grooves. I
was told synthetics do this to rings. They broke when I tried to take
them out. Stuck rings cause piston blowby which causes bad things
happen. The cylinder crosshatch was still visible.
After the second 100 hours and using Penzoil 2-cycle oil the whole time,
the rings were free and floating inside the ring groves. The crosshatch
was still just as visible as after the first 100 hours.
This is just one data-point. I'm not drawing any conclusions.
Mike Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim_and_Lucy Chuk <thesupe(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | need a 912 exhaust system |
Hi all=2C I am looking for a 912 exhaust system for my Kitfox 4. The eng
ine came off a Rans S-12 and I have a very nice exhaust from it that I woul
d like to trade if I could. Either way I will need the tractor style exhau
st system. I also have the 912 motor mount for the Rans S 12. Perhaps som
eone on the list will run accross or knows of someone that has what I need
or wants what I have. Thanks=2C Jim Chuk Kitfox 4 building.
======> > >
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows Mobile brings your life together=97at home=2C work=2C or on
the go.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
I did some tests today regarding the CHT probe placements on my
Jabiru 2200 engine. I'm cross-posting this so others can benefit, and
even make assumptions regarding other engines, perhaps. I was
wondering out loud about how the different mounting locations for the
thermocouple probes might affect the readings of the cylinder head
temps. During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
removing the spark plug terminal of course.
First I went up and got some CHT numbers as the basis for comparison.
I noted that cyl. #1 ran 317, 327, and 340 F, during various phases
of flight. Noting these, I then took the probe from cyl #3 and
attached to it a spark plug terminal (12mm), and installed it onto
the spark plug that lives over the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder. I
first removed the spark plug washer like Jabiru says to do, installed
the probe/terminal, then reinstalled the spark plug washer, and
reinstalled the plug. Then went flying again.
Here is how I'll report the numbers....I'll call the new location
(the machine screw termination) CHT, and the spark plug termination,
SP, as In (CHT/SP)
The numbers I got were as follows (with an ambient of 61 F) (drum
roll please)....initial taxiing= (250/220); taxiing further=
(266/230); climbing out= (308/232); further climbing=(321/243);
leveling off (not recorded for how long level)= (330/245); not noted
what attitude, but not climbing=(334/249); climbing again briefly=
(344/248) I noted that the max differential was 96 F, and the
climbing EGT's were in the high 1200's. I didn't have enough hands,
instruments or inclination to record every aspect of the test, but I
got enough to satisfy myself that my new locations for the CHT probes
work, and now I can rest assured that I'm not overheating the engine
as I thought I might when I first started it up with this
configuration. Needless to say, the CHT's now apparently rise more
quickly, and if you're like me, and you've been accustomed to seeing
it rise slowly and only into the low to mid- 200's, the ol' pucker
factor rises just as quickly and the finger gets close to the panic
button, but it's just numbers, and now that I've done some testing,
I'll relax a bit on this subject at least.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
I have no "notches" on my flapperon lever. It's a continuous range from 0 t
o a stop at about 15 degrees which, I think, is where the "flaps" begin to
interfere with operation of the ailerons.
-
I'd like to see your tab set-up. Is it like the one on the Euro-Fox?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:31 PM
I have dug out some build documentation - two MANDATORY modifications issue
d by the PFA. The first describes adding the horizontal trim tab for those
who have already built the stabilisers and those that hadn't, mine has-co
mpletely reworked tubing on the starboard side to allow for an inbuilt tab.
-
The second states: "Original equipment on Kitfox does not provide for a pos
itive location 'gate' on the flap control lever. It was original intended t
hat the plane be trimmed by use of the flaps. However flight tests indicate
a more suitable situation would be to use a trim tab (adjustable) on the e
levator and use the flaps as flaps only. This is the recommended practice.
In this situation 15 degrees of flap is the maximum required in any situati
on. Hence a suitable gate is required that can be clamped to the diagonal t
ube framing floor to seat that will restrain total flap lever travel to 0 -
15 degrees in say 5 degree steps"
-
Mine has 3 notches: 0, 15, and something between. The first "notch" adds ab
out 90% lift and 10% drag (% of the total effect), used for short take-offs
and nose-down on approach. The 2nd notch (15) adds 10% lift and 90% drag.
- I'd have to guess that your adding "10 degrees or less" is adding a *lo
t* of drag at cruise speeds. I never use flap until I am down to about 55 m
ph approach speed, or remove it until well off the ground on take off; in f
act it is placarded never to use flaps at all above maneuvering speed, 70 m
ph.
-
-
EGT gauges - I looked on AircraftSpruce.com and there is a wide range of ty
pes and prices. Can you (or anyone on the list)-give recommendations for
my gray head 582 please. Also - what sensors and where do they mount?
-
Spark plugs - I will pull them all next time I am "under the bonnet", which
should be later today, and get back to you on the condition.
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 10:20 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I use the flapperons (about 10 degrees or less) for nose down trim at cruis
e speeds (60-70 mph). As power is reduced, flapperons return to neutral. Wi
th no flaps and cruise power, airplane will climb. My CG is dead-center of
the range.
-
You must get egt gauges Bob. With a 2 stroke, it is probably the most impor
tant engine instrument on your panel. It will tell you immediately if mixtu
re is too lean (High egt) and prevent melting holes in your pistons. Checki
ng the color of your plugs frequently will also tell you alot about fuel bu
rn (lean-rich). You're shooting for a light brown color. No black soot (too
rich) or gray ash (too lean). Mike Stratmann wrote a good article ("Part 9
") on reading plugs. Check it out at: -http://www.800-airwolf.com/article
s.htm
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Lucky for you I already have some pix I had sent to another poster off-list
'cause it's pissin it down out there at the moment ;-)
I haven't seen the one on the Euro-Fox but I do know the UK Fox has a lot of
mods to the original kit. I seem to remember the normal (US) flaperons are
meant to be limited to around 23 degrees but I might be wrong.
The picture of the "console" shows the continuous horiz tab setting nearest
and the flap handle (with the release button on top) is on the far side, set
for zero flaps in the picture. I never use full flaps until I am lined up on
final, at that setting it is easy to run out of roll correction if a turn is
too steep on base to final. Had it happen a few times early on!
Any comments on the EGT gauge and sensor you have talked me into?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 6:36 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I have no "notches" on my flapperon lever. It's a continuous range from 0 to
a stop at about 15 degrees which, I think, is where the "flaps" begin to
interfere with operation of the ailerons.
I'd like to see your tab set-up. Is it like the one on the Euro-Fox?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:31 PM
I have dug out some build documentation - two MANDATORY modifications issued
by the PFA. The first describes adding the horizontal trim tab for those who
have already built the stabilisers and those that hadn't, mine has
completely reworked tubing on the starboard side to allow for an inbuilt
tab.
The second states: "Original equipment on Kitfox does not provide for a
positive location 'gate' on the flap control lever. It was original intended
that the plane be trimmed by use of the flaps. However flight tests indicate
a more suitable situation would be to use a trim tab (adjustable) on the
elevator and use the flaps as flaps only. This is the recommended practice.
In this situation 15 degrees of flap is the maximum required in any
situation. Hence a suitable gate is required that can be clamped to the
diagonal tube framing floor to seat that will restrain total flap lever
travel to 0 - 15 degrees in say 5 degree steps"
Mine has 3 notches: 0, 15, and something between. The first "notch" adds
about 90% lift and 10% drag (% of the total effect), used for short
take-offs and nose-down on approach. The 2nd notch (15) adds 10% lift and
90% drag. I'd have to guess that your adding "10 degrees or less" is adding
a *lot* of drag at cruise speeds. I never use flap until I am down to about
55 mph approach speed, or remove it until well off the ground on take off;
in fact it is placarded never to use flaps at all above maneuvering speed,
70 mph.
EGT gauges - I looked on AircraftSpruce.com and there is a wide range of
types and prices. Can you (or anyone on the list) give recommendations for
my gray head 582 please. Also - what sensors and where do they mount?
Spark plugs - I will pull them all next time I am "under the bonnet", which
should be later today, and get back to you on the condition.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 10:20 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I use the flapperons (about 10 degrees or less) for nose down trim at cruise
speeds (60-70 mph). As power is reduced, flapperons return to neutral. With
no flaps and cruise power, airplane will climb. My CG is dead-center of the
range.
You must get egt gauges Bob. With a 2 stroke, it is probably the most
important engine instrument on your panel. It will tell you immediately if
mixture is too lean (High egt) and prevent melting holes in your pistons.
Checking the color of your plugs frequently will also tell you alot about
fuel burn (lean-rich). You're shooting for a light brown color. No black
soot (too rich) or gray ash (too lean). Mike Stratmann wrote a good article
("Part 9") on reading plugs. Check it out at:
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
From: | gary.algate(at)sandvik.com |
Great job Lynn.
This makes a lot of sense now. With my pick ups directly against the top
of the head (under the washer) I am getting readings that appear to be
midway so it really all depends upon where you take the readings -
Good luck and fly "blue side up"
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
Lynn Matteson
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
01/10/2008 08:07 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com, jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com,
jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
I did some tests today regarding the CHT probe placements on my
Jabiru 2200 engine. I'm cross-posting this so others can benefit, and
even make assumptions regarding other engines, perhaps. I was
wondering out loud about how the different mounting locations for the
thermocouple probes might affect the readings of the cylinder head
temps. During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
removing the spark plug terminal of course.
First I went up and got some CHT numbers as the basis for comparison.
I noted that cyl. #1 ran 317, 327, and 340=B0 F, during various phases
of flight. Noting these, I then took the probe from cyl #3 and
attached to it a spark plug terminal (12mm), and installed it onto
the spark plug that lives over the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder. I
first removed the spark plug washer like Jabiru says to do, installed
the probe/terminal, then reinstalled the spark plug washer, and
reinstalled the plug. Then went flying again.
Here is how I'll report the numbers....I'll call the new location
(the machine screw termination) CHT, and the spark plug termination,
SP, as In (CHT/SP)
The numbers I got were as follows (with an ambient of 61=B0 F) (drum
roll please)....initial taxiing= (250/220); taxiing further=
(266/230); climbing out= (308/232); further climbing=(321/243);
leveling off (not recorded for how long level)= (330/245); not noted
what attitude, but not climbing=(334/249); climbing again briefly=
(344/248) I noted that the max differential was 96=B0 F, and the
climbing EGT's were in the high 1200's. I didn't have enough hands,
instruments or inclination to record every aspect of the test, but I
got enough to satisfy myself that my new locations for the CHT probes
work, and now I can rest assured that I'm not overheating the engine
as I thought I might when I first started it up with this
configuration. Needless to say, the CHT's now apparently rise more
quickly, and if you're like me, and you've been accustomed to seeing
it rise slowly and only into the low to mid- 200's, the ol' pucker
factor rises just as quickly and the finger gets close to the panic
button, but it's just numbers, and now that I've done some testing,
I'll relax a bit on this subject at least.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | steve shinabery <shinco(at)bright.net> |
Subject: | Rotax 582 starter problems |
I need help with my starter on my Kitfox 2..I may have to take it out to
repair it..what do I need to do to get it out?is there a easy way of
getting it out with out taking the engine out too?? I have the 582 rotax
engine in it..I have now tested the starter as yet..all I hear is a
clicking from the solenoid.battery is good.I have not checked the ground
as yet.. Thanks Steve Shinabery N554KF, KF2, with 582 rotax...Home of
the 2009 Great Lakes Kitfox Fly In.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2-stroke oil |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Tue, September 30, 2008 10:05 am, Perkins, Mike wrote:
> Oh, gosh. Here I go. . . I promised myself I'd never discuss 2-cycle oil
> again in my life.
>
> After the first 100 hours on my 532 and using AV-2 the whole time, I had
> to replace the rings because they'd gotten stuck in the ring grooves. I
> was told synthetics do this to rings. They broke when I tried to take
> them out. Stuck rings cause piston blowby which causes bad things
> happen. The cylinder crosshatch was still visible.
>
> After the second 100 hours and using Penzoil 2-cycle oil the whole time,
> the rings were free and floating inside the ring groves. The crosshatch
> was still just as visible as after the first 100 hours.
>
> This is just one data-point. I'm not drawing any conclusions.
About 12 years ago, I did substantial research on engine oils, with the primary
concern being compatibility with usage with high lead content gasoline such as
100 LL
in 4 stroke engines, specifically for the 914. I published all the results of that
research on the KF list. During the course of that research I discovered that the
single most important factor for two stroke mixed or injected oil was ash content.
Ash
will accumulate on top of the top piston ring and cause overheating which leads
to
stuck rings, relaxed rings and in some cases seizure even when the mixture is
sufficiently rich.
So, when selecting a two stroke engine oil, getting one with near zero or zero
ash
content is what to look for. That requirement is what precludes use of most API
graded
engine oils for two stroke usage.
I'm not sure if Don Pearsall's archives of the early KF List mail is still around
but
I probably have it backed up somewhere.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
Subject: | CHT probe placement |
Lynn
I don't have a Jab or for that matter I'm not too interested in installing
one... I'm still working on getting the 912 into my 'fox. Having said that
I think your report on the location of the thermocouples to be to the point
and factual. Thanks. It's always good to keep up on what's being done.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:59 PM
jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
I did some tests today regarding the CHT probe placements on my
Jabiru 2200 engine. I'm cross-posting this so others can benefit, and
even make assumptions regarding other engines, perhaps. I was
wondering out loud about how the different mounting locations for the
thermocouple probes might affect the readings of the cylinder head
temps. During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
removing the spark plug terminal of course.
First I went up and got some CHT numbers as the basis for comparison.
I noted that cyl. #1 ran 317, 327, and 340 F, during various phases
of flight. Noting these, I then took the probe from cyl #3 and
attached to it a spark plug terminal (12mm), and installed it onto
the spark plug that lives over the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder. I
first removed the spark plug washer like Jabiru says to do, installed
the probe/terminal, then reinstalled the spark plug washer, and
reinstalled the plug. Then went flying again.
Here is how I'll report the numbers....I'll call the new location
(the machine screw termination) CHT, and the spark plug termination,
SP, as In (CHT/SP)
The numbers I got were as follows (with an ambient of 61 F) (drum
roll please)....initial taxiing= (250/220); taxiing further=
(266/230); climbing out= (308/232); further climbing=(321/243);
leveling off (not recorded for how long level)= (330/245); not noted
what attitude, but not climbing=(334/249); climbing again briefly=
(344/248) I noted that the max differential was 96 F, and the
climbing EGT's were in the high 1200's. I didn't have enough hands,
instruments or inclination to record every aspect of the test, but I
got enough to satisfy myself that my new locations for the CHT probes
work, and now I can rest assured that I'm not overheating the engine
as I thought I might when I first started it up with this
configuration. Needless to say, the CHT's now apparently rise more
quickly, and if you're like me, and you've been accustomed to seeing
it rise slowly and only into the low to mid- 200's, the ol' pucker
factor rises just as quickly and the finger gets close to the panic
button, but it's just numbers, and now that I've done some testing,
I'll relax a bit on this subject at least.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> |
Subject: | Rotax 582 starter problems |
I have heard of one guy who made his engine mount so it can be opened like a
door to get at the back of the engine. He had a Merlin GT, not a Kitfox.
The trouble with the installation of the starter on the 582 is it has to
have some space for the starter to ride in the mounts. Too tight and the
starter won't work, too loose and I guess it will fall off.
Certainly check that you have good strong grounds between the battery and
the engine itself.. Heavy braids should jump across the nice insulating
Lord mounts. Make sure where the braids are mounted are clean and shiny on
both ends.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve shinabery
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 starter problems
I need help with my starter on my Kitfox 2..I may have to take it out to
repair it..what do I need to do to get it out?is there a easy way of
getting it out with out taking the engine out too?? I have the 582 rotax
engine in it..I have now tested the starter as yet..all I hear is a
clicking from the solenoid.battery is good.I have not checked the ground
as yet.. Thanks Steve Shinabery N554KF, KF2, with 582 rotax...Home of
the 2009 Great Lakes Kitfox Fly In.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Thanks, Gary. I know this really helps me to not panic when I see
those "big" numbers. All I gotta do now is to reset the "maximums" on
my EIS so I don't get false alarms. I only got the one when it went
over 392 F the first time I taxied with it, but after that it has
not lit up for overtemps even with the "hotter" probe placement. On
second thought, maybe I won't change them, as now it will just give
me an early warning, and it really won't mean anything...yet.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:15 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Great job Lynn.
>
> This makes a lot of sense now. With my pick ups directly against
> the top of the head (under the washer) I am getting readings that
> appear to be midway so it really all depends upon where you take
> the readings -
>
> Good luck and fly "blue side up"
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Tue, September 30, 2008 3:29 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
> the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
> required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
> screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
> electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
> removing the spark plug terminal of course.
Good and useful experiment. Would you post a few photos of the thermocouple installation?
I want to do the same with my Rotax 914.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Harry Cieslar <hcieslar(at)cabletv.on.ca> |
Subject: | bending aluminum tubing |
Anyone have advice on bending aluminum tubing for my pitot tube without
kinking. Thanks, Harry Cieslar, Avid Magnum Builder, Goderich Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: bending aluminum tubing |
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
Use spring bender available at Home depot or Lowes or a tubing bender available
at Avery Tools or Cleaveland tools.
(http://imageshack.us)
(http://imageshack.us)
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7013#207013
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
I've got photos of the install, and when I remove the plug t'couple
today, I'll take a few how how close together they are. I was amazed
at how close together hey can be physically, yet give such different
readings.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:15 AM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, September 30, 2008 3:29 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>> During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
>> the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
>> required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
>> screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
>> electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
>> removing the spark plug terminal of course.
>
> Good and useful experiment. Would you post a few photos of the
> thermocouple installation?
>
> I want to do the same with my Rotax 914.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: bending aluminum tubing |
Harry,
You can use a tubing bender. I have had good success with the spring type
you slide over the tubing. You can also fill the tubing tightly with fine sand
and bend. The sand supports the wall of the tubing.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
Subject: | Re: bending aluminum tubing |
The least low costs bender will work. If you bought the soft temper 0
tubing you probably do not even need a bender. Just work the tube by
hand. If you have some extra tubing give it a try. For sharp bends
with small radius definitely use a good bender tool.
I have lots of different benders but by hand works most of the time
for the soft Al tube.
Paul
At 11:51 PM 9/30/2008, you wrote:
>
>Anyone have advice on bending aluminum tubing for my pitot tube
>without kinking. Thanks, Harry Cieslar, Avid Magnum Builder, Goderich Ont
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W. Hart" <helili(at)chahtatushka.net> |
Subject: | bending aluminum tubing |
One of these tubing benders works on all soft tubing sizes from 1/4" thru
3/8", and they are not expensive.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3755
John Hart
KF IV
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harry Cieslar
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:51 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: bending aluminum tubing
Anyone have advice on bending aluminum tubing for my pitot tube without
kinking. Thanks, Harry Cieslar, Avid Magnum Builder, Goderich Ont
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Harry Cieslar <hcieslar(at)cabletv.on.ca> |
Subject: | aluminum tube bending |
Thanks for all the replys. Very helpful. Great site. Harry Cieslar Avid
Magnum Builder Goderich, ON
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
Anyone have a source for rubber grommets that fit in a 3/16" hole? That's the size
hole I drilled for a wire exit in my control sticks but can't found grommets
that small. Worse come to worse I'll double shrink tube them and zip tie then
so they won't move, but I prefer a grommet.
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7039#207039
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | edge tool name and source needed |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
There's a tool you use to slightly bend down the edges of sheet so that when you
rivet
it onto another piece the edge is tight. I saw that tool at a tool display at the
Arlington EAA Fly In Airshow but have lost my notes. I can't remember the company
name
that sold these tools nor the name of that kind of a simple tool.
The tool is hand held and has rollers so it just bends the edge of the piece down
slightly.
What is a likely company name for such aircraft tools and what's the tool called?
Also I need a recommendation for clecos. The ones I am using aren't quite right,
I
have to use a little spacer to make them tight when going through two thin sheets.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | kerrjohna(at)comcast.net |
Try an R/C model shop looking for isolation mounts for radio gear in a model.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net>
>
> Anyone have a source for rubber grommets that fit in a 3/16" hole? That's the
> size hole I drilled for a wire exit in my control sticks but can't found
> grommets that small. Worse come to worse I'll double shrink tube them and zip
> tie then so they won't move, but I prefer a grommet.
>
> --------
> Jorge Fernandez
> Supersport
> Fuselage/Forward Controls
> http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7039#207039
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Try an R/C model shop looking for isolation mounts for radio gear in a model.
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Aluminum Flyer" <aluminum.flyer(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
Try Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyedgetool.php
---
Enea Grande
Hoping Kitfox...one day.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
>
> There's a tool you use to slightly bend down the edges of sheet so that when
you rivet
> it onto another piece the edge is tight. I saw that tool at a tool display at
the
> Arlington EAA Fly In Airshow but have lost my notes. I can't remember the company
name
> that sold these tools nor the name of that kind of a simple tool.
>
> The tool is hand held and has rollers so it just bends the edge of the piece
down
> slightly.
>
> What is a likely company name for such aircraft tools and what's the tool called?
>
> Also I need a recommendation for clecos. The ones I am using aren't quite right,
I
> have to use a little spacer to make them tight when going through two thin sheets.
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: bending aluminum tubing |
From: | "Perkins, Mike" <Michael.Perkins(at)Rauland.com> |
I've packed sand into alum tubing for larger diameter tubing. But for
smaller diameter tubing, using a brake-line tubing bender at an
automotive shop might be better.
Mike Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "william Mills" <wtrooper(at)gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
Better still buy direct from the Avery family business ($19) at:
http://www.averytools.com/p-45-edge-rolling-tool.aspx
I've gotten most of my sheet metal tools from them with good service.
Bill
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Aluminum Flyer wrote:
> aluminum.flyer(at)gmail.com>
>
> Try Aircraft Spruce:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyedgetool.php
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 starter problemsRotax 582 starter problems |
From: | "Perkins, Mike" <Michael.Perkins(at)Rauland.com> |
The only way to get at the starter for repair or replacement is to
remove the entire engine. You can do all the work yourself up to the
point where you have to wiggle the engine out of the mount - that's
where a second person is very beneficial. Same with putting it back in.
It's a pain, but it's the only way.
Sometimes relays go bad. So before removing the starter, you might want
to make sure that when you engage the relay, there's +12 volts on the
contactor-side (going to the starter).
Ground connections can corrode, especially with rust on the frame. So
it's always wise to use toothed lock washers between the ground lugs and
the frame.
Mike Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2-stroke oil |
From: | "Perkins, Mike" <Michael.Perkins(at)Rauland.com> |
Hi Paul,
Thanks for responding. Not to inundate you with Penzoil propaganda, but
here are two pieces on 2-cycle oil I'd archived. You may have seen them
before.
http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/penaircool2c.html
http://www.powerchutes.com/oil.pdf
I've used this oil from 100 hours to 325 hours in my 532 and don't have
any problems. (The first 100 engine hours were with AV-2.)
Mike Perkins
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Thanks, Noel....that's the reason that I posted it...because some
people might like the info and want to change their location. The
spark plug location has always been a pain in the backside to me, and
I was even cussin' while I was dealing with just this one yesterday,
and again when I removed it this morning.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn
> I don't have a Jab or for that matter I'm not too interested in
> installing
> one... I'm still working on getting the 912 into my 'fox. Having
> said that
> I think your report on the location of the thermocouples to be to
> the point
> and factual. Thanks. It's always good to keep up on what's being
> done.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:59 PM
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com; jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com;
> jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
> I did some tests today regarding the CHT probe placements on my
> Jabiru 2200 engine. I'm cross-posting this so others can benefit, and
> even make assumptions regarding other engines, perhaps. I was
> wondering out loud about how the different mounting locations for the
> thermocouple probes might affect the readings of the cylinder head
> temps. During my recent overhaul, I decided I didn't like the "under-
> the-spark-plug" mounting location, so I changed to a location that
> required me to drill into the head, tap it for an 8-32 machine
> screw...actually a socket head cap screw...and affix the proper
> electrical terminal onto the end of the t'couple probe...after
> removing the spark plug terminal of course.
>
> First I went up and got some CHT numbers as the basis for comparison.
> I noted that cyl. #1 ran 317, 327, and 340 F, during various phases
> of flight. Noting these, I then took the probe from cyl #3 and
> attached to it a spark plug terminal (12mm), and installed it onto
> the spark plug that lives over the exhaust valve on #1 cylinder. I
> first removed the spark plug washer like Jabiru says to do, installed
> the probe/terminal, then reinstalled the spark plug washer, and
> reinstalled the plug. Then went flying again.
>
> Here is how I'll report the numbers....I'll call the new location
> (the machine screw termination) CHT, and the spark plug termination,
> SP, as In (CHT/SP)
>
> The numbers I got were as follows (with an ambient of 61 F) (drum
> roll please)....initial taxiing= (250/220); taxiing further
> (266/230); climbing out= (308/232); further climbing=(321/243);
> leveling off (not recorded for how long level)= (330/245); not noted
> what attitude, but not climbing=(334/249); climbing again briefly
> (344/248) I noted that the max differential was 96 F, and the
> climbing EGT's were in the high 1200's. I didn't have enough hands,
> instruments or inclination to record every aspect of the test, but I
> got enough to satisfy myself that my new locations for the CHT probes
> work, and now I can rest assured that I'm not overheating the engine
> as I thought I might when I first started it up with this
> configuration. Needless to say, the CHT's now apparently rise more
> quickly, and if you're like me, and you've been accustomed to seeing
> it rise slowly and only into the low to mid- 200's, the ol' pucker
> factor rises just as quickly and the finger gets close to the panic
> button, but it's just numbers, and now that I've done some testing,
> I'll relax a bit on this subject at least.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly
> so...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> |
NAPA or Autozone
PW
==========
At 09:15 AM 10/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>Anyone have a source for rubber grommets that fit in a 3/16" hole?
>That's the size hole I drilled for a wire exit in my control sticks
>but can't found grommets that small. Worse come to worse I'll double
>shrink tube them and zip tie then so they won't move, but I prefer a grommet.
>
>--------
>Jorge Fernandez
>Supersport
>Fuselage/Forward Controls
>http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7039#207039
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
At 09:42 AM 9/30/2008, you wrote:
>I haven't been following this thread closely but in my own
>experience I mounted a CHT probe on a Quicksilver MX and removed the
>washer per instructions and soon thereafter had a plug back out
>almost causing an emergency landing in a bad spot. I put a plug in
>WITH the washer and never had another problem.
Hmmmm. I've been running them for 250 hours without a washer in my
582 and have not had a problem.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
At 09:31 AM 9/30/2008, you wrote:
>EGT gauges - I looked on AircraftSpruce.com and there is a wide
>range of types and prices. Can you (or anyone on the list) give
>recommendations for my gray head 582 please. Also - what sensors and
>where do they mount?
I use the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS system for engine
data. I love it as it has an alarm system that whacks me in the head
(visually) when my EGT's go over red-line; (or anything else for that matter.)
The easiest EGT probe to install would be the P-110 hose
clamp mount. Mine are P-111 mounted via a 1/8" NPT to 1/8"
compression fitting screwed into the exhaust manifold. Check your
exhaust manifold. It should have two bosses welded on the top or
bottom about 2" from the engine flange. These are for the EGT probes.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> |
Subject: | Re: bending aluminum tubing |
At 10:51 PM 9/30/2008, you wrote:
>Anyone have advice on bending aluminum tubing for my pitot tube
>without kinking.
Buy the little hand held lever action tube bender, they're cheap and
worth the aggravation relief. They also work for a variety of tube
sizes. I've seen them at auto part stores, and the ACS part number is
12-01577 or 12-01578, depending on size.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Here are some pictures for those interested in pursuing an alternate
location for the CHT probes.
tapping the hole
thermocouple prepared and ready to install
keeping the thermocouple clear of the spark plug socket
I ran some tests with two thermocouples in place...one in new
location, and the other under the spark plug....at one point 96=B0 F
hotter at the "against-the-head" location, as opposed to having the
t'couple up in the airstream. You can't tell how high it sticks up
here, but it does.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
The problem I'm having is the smallest auto parts and such have is that they have
require a 1/4" hole. I had spoken to John at Kitfox on how they run their wires
and he said that 1/4" is too large a hole to drill in the control sticks.
I'm just going to double shrinktube the wires and use some RTV to keep them from
moving. Thanks for the suggestions.
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7082#207082
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:04 am, Aluminum Flyer wrote:
>
> Try Aircraft Spruce:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyedgetool.php
>
That's what I need! The one I saw had handles similar to a plier but this one from
Aircraft Spruce will do the trick.
Thanks. Still looking for a cleco recommendation.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Weiss Richard <MDKitfox(at)AOL.COM> |
Jorge,
Try smallparts.com
They're located in the Miami area. I don't know for sure if they
have them, but they do have quite the inventory of 'stuff'.
Small Parts, Inc.
15901 SW 29 Street Suite 201
Miramar, FL 33027
Rick Weiss
Series V Speedster, 912S Power, SkyStar S/N 1
MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Port Orange, FL
On Oct 1, 2008, at 5:49 PM, jlfernan wrote:
>
> The problem I'm having is the smallest auto parts and such have is
> that they have require a 1/4" hole. I had spoken to John at Kitfox
> on how they run their wires and he said that 1/4" is too large a
> hole to drill in the control sticks. I'm just going to double
> shrinktube the wires and use some RTV to keep them from moving.
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> --------
> Jorge Fernandez
> Supersport
> Fuselage/Forward Controls
> http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7082#207082
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:34 am, william Mills wrote:
> Better still buy direct from the Avery family business ($19) at:
> http://www.averytools.com/p-45-edge-rolling-tool.aspx
> I've gotten most of my sheet metal tools from them with good service.
thanks for the tip. Looks like the same one AS sells below for a better price.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Aluminum Flyer wrote:
>
>> aluminum.flyer(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> Try Aircraft Spruce:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyedgetool.php
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 2-stroke oil |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:52 am, Perkins, Mike wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Thanks for responding. Not to inundate you with Penzoil propaganda, but
> here are two pieces on 2-cycle oil I'd archived. You may have seen them
> before.
>
This is the blue code oil in the Lockwood test.
<http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/penaircool2c.html>
This is the Lockwood test.
<http://www.powerchutes.com/oil.pdf>
It would seem that the red code (Outboard 2 stroke Oil) would also be a good choice.
The ashfree formulation is really the key here.
They do say "in real world" usage where mixtures run leaner, that the synthetic
would
score higher than in their tests. However, it is clear from the pictures, I wouldn't
want to use that or the conventional mineral oil (purple code) or the synthetic
(yellow code).
In my previous research, the tech information I found was mostly from tests using
Castrol. I recall that their interest was finding the best oil for the RAVE system
on
the Rotax 618 and that ash deposits above the top piston land were a leading cause
of
overheating and seizure. I can't find that article but in those tests, I think
it was
the synthetic from Castrol that was chosen. My focus was on Synthetics for use
in the
Rotax 914 and what would happen if you had to use some 100 LL. Mobil 1 was definitely
ruled out even for a small amount of 100 LL use. Castrol Syntec is the oil I favored
of the ones tested and available in the US.
The Pennzoil information you found would probably turn me to the "blue coded" or
Aircooled two stroke oil you cite. I wouldn't want to use the synthetic for fear
of
results like theirs.
> I've used this oil from 100 hours to 325 hours in my 532 and don't have
> any problems. (The first 100 engine hours were with AV-2.)
Lockwood says to examine the piston crowns and rings every 50 hours for deposits
sticking. Have you done that too?
>
> Mike Perkins
>
>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
This is probably the one you saw, it's just a little pricey.
http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EF60
(http://imageshack.us)
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7118#207118
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
I seem to be posting alot, but it's always something new. When I drilled my control
sticks for the wire exit, I drilled about .5 inches above where the pivot
tube ends inside the stick. Today I realized that when the sticks are pulled
full aft, the holes for the wires are even with a cross tube in the fuselage and
the wires hit the tube. Now my plane is no where ready to be rigged. My question
is, how close do the sticks come to this tube in a properly rigged aircraft?
(http://imageshack.us)
(http://imageshack.us)
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7121#207121
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
I got my clecos's from Spruce. I was ordering all kinds of other
stuff from them early on in my building process, and didn't bother
with shopping for price, just "send 'em so I can get 'er done!"
There is a place in Oscoda, Michigan...an aircraft tool company
(maybe even goes by that name) that also sells them. Maybe a google
search will turn them up.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go, or nearly so...
On Oct 1, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:04 am, Aluminum Flyer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Try Aircraft Spruce:
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyedgetool.php
>>
>
> That's what I need! The one I saw had handles similar to a plier
> but this one from
> Aircraft Spruce will do the trick.
>
> Thanks. Still looking for a cleco recommendation.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
From: | "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul(at)eucleides.com> |
On Wed, October 1, 2008 10:50 pm, jlfernan wrote:
>
> This is probably the one you saw, it's just a little pricey.
> http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EF60
Yep, that's it. Double the cost of the circular one. I wonder which one would be
better?
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net> |
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
It's called ATS or Aircraft Tool Supply www.aircraft-tool.com
Easy to deal with. They make their own clecos and supply many other
vendors.
800 248 0638
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: edge tool name and source needed
>
> I got my clecos's from Spruce. I was ordering all kinds of other stuff
> from them early on in my building process, and didn't bother with
> shopping for price, just "send 'em so I can get 'er done!" There is a
> place in Oscoda, Michigan...an aircraft tool company (maybe even goes by
> that name) that also sells them. Maybe a google search will turn them up.
>
> Lynn Matteson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: edge tool name and source needed |
Deev- malcolm here- I am back on the list just had both knees- replac
ed 25 days ago havent ben in the air- yet- flew a searay 8.5 hrs this s
umer just had my plane anualed but need my bianual by the end of this month
- call if you want to do lunch in midland some time--- mal- new #
989-5133-3022
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, fox5flyer wrote:
From: fox5flyer <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: edge tool name and source needed
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 2:08 PM
It's called ATS or Aircraft Tool Supply www.aircraft-tool.com
Easy to deal with. They make their own clecos and supply many other
vendors.
800 248 0638
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: edge tool name and source needed
>
> I got my clecos's from Spruce. I was ordering all kinds of other
stuff
> from them early on in my building process, and didn't bother with
> shopping for price, just "send 'em so I can get 'er
done!" There is a
> place in Oscoda, Michigan...an aircraft tool company (maybe even goes by
> that name) that also sells them. Maybe a google search will turn them up
..
>
> Lynn Matteson
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Control stick |
From: | "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> |
You will probably find the answer in the Elevator installation section in your
manual. It should have the instructions on how to set the up elevator limit.
On a model 4 the stick touches the front of the seat which sits on the tube you
are concerned about. I didn't happen to check that on the one completed series
7 I saw the other day.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7174#207174
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
I never use the flaps at all, except for trim.
-
Nothing much more to say about the egt gauges except I don't know how you c
an run without them. Probe placement is important and there's been some tal
k about that on this list. My exhaust manifold came with holes already plac
ed so it was a simple matter of assembly. After installation, it's a balanc
ing act between prop pitch and carb settings to get the rpm's and egts wher
e you want them. Conventional wisdom says egt's should not go above 1050-11
50 degrees. Mid-range rpm's-were most problematic for me. After that, ins
pect your plugs to assure the burn is proper and gauges aren't lying.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
-
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 7:09 PM
Lucky for you I already have some pix I had sent to another poster off-list
'cause it's pissin it down out there at the moment ;-)
-
I haven't seen the one on the Euro-Fox but I do know the UK Fox has a lot o
f mods to the original kit. I seem to remember the normal (US) flaperons ar
e meant to be limited to around 23 degrees but I might be wrong.
-
The picture of the "console" shows the continuous horiz tab setting nearest
and the flap handle (with the release button on top) is on the far side, s
et for zero flaps in the picture. I never use full flaps until I am lined u
p on final, at that setting it is easy to run out of roll correction if a t
urn is too steep on base to final. Had it happen a few times early on!
-
Any comments on the EGT gauge and sensor you have talked me into?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
-
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 6:36 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I have no "notches" on my flapperon lever. It's a continuous range from 0 t
o a stop at about 15 degrees which, I think, is where the "flaps" begin to
interfere with operation of the ailerons.
-
I'd like to see your tab set-up. Is it like the one on the Euro-Fox?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Tue, 9/30/08, Bob Brennan wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 12:31 PM
I have dug out some build documentation - two MANDATORY modifications issue
d by the PFA. The first describes adding the horizontal trim tab for those
who have already built the stabilisers and those that hadn't, mine has-co
mpletely reworked tubing on the starboard side to allow for an inbuilt tab.
-
The second states: "Original equipment on Kitfox does not provide for a pos
itive location 'gate' on the flap control lever. It was original intended t
hat the plane be trimmed by use of the flaps. However flight tests indicate
a more suitable situation would be to use a trim tab (adjustable) on the e
levator and use the flaps as flaps only. This is the recommended practice.
In this situation 15 degrees of flap is the maximum required in any situati
on. Hence a suitable gate is required that can be clamped to the diagonal t
ube framing floor to seat that will restrain total flap lever travel to 0 -
15 degrees in say 5 degree steps"
-
Mine has 3 notches: 0, 15, and something between. The first "notch" adds ab
out 90% lift and 10% drag (% of the total effect), used for short take-offs
and nose-down on approach. The 2nd notch (15) adds 10% lift and 90% drag.
- I'd have to guess that your adding "10 degrees or less" is adding a *lo
t* of drag at cruise speeds. I never use flap until I am down to about 55 m
ph approach speed, or remove it until well off the ground on take off; in f
act it is placarded never to use flaps at all above maneuvering speed, 70 m
ph.
-
-
EGT gauges - I looked on AircraftSpruce.com and there is a wide range of ty
pes and prices. Can you (or anyone on the list)-give recommendations for
my gray head 582 please. Also - what sensors and where do they mount?
-
Spark plugs - I will pull them all next time I am "under the bonnet", which
should be later today, and get back to you on the condition.
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 30 September 2008 10:20 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I use the flapperons (about 10 degrees or less) for nose down trim at cruis
e speeds (60-70 mph). As power is reduced, flapperons return to neutral. Wi
th no flaps and cruise power, airplane will climb. My CG is dead-center of
the range.
-
You must get egt gauges Bob. With a 2 stroke, it is probably the most impor
tant engine instrument on your panel. It will tell you immediately if mixtu
re is too lean (High egt) and prevent melting holes in your pistons. Checki
ng the color of your plugs frequently will also tell you alot about fuel bu
rn (lean-rich). You're shooting for a light brown color. No black soot (too
rich) or gray ash (too lean). Mike Stratmann wrote a good article ("Part 9
") on reading plugs. Check it out at: -http://www.800-airwolf.com/article
s.htm
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "bob noffs" <icubob(at)newnorth.net> |
i think a good grommet can be made with the proper thickness and
diameter of rubber gas or oil hose. a slit around the piece with a razor
will allow it to be locked into place. a wire tie around the wire on
each side of the ''grommet'' will hold it in place in some cases.
i used a truck heater hose of 1 1/4'' outside diameter to feed spark
plug wires into my pressure plenum and wire ties to hold it in place. i
had grommets but the heater hose set up is way tougher.
i understand you need an inside diameter of about 1/16''.
bob noffs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net> |
>From John at Kitfox:
"It will most likely hit the cross tube I have done the same thing.. if you run
the wires tight against the stick as it comes out of the grommet you might get
away with leaving it just like it is. Again that is what I did."
It's not like I'm ready to go flying tomorrow. I'll do what John says and if at
final rigging it's an issue, I'll resolve it then.
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7258#207258
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "n85ae" <n85ae(at)yahoo.com> |
A lot of hardware stores have drawers full of grommets of various sizes.
I visit the local ACE Hardware frequently for stuff like that.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7263#207263
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Corner <jcorner(at)shaw.ca> |
Finally after 3 1/2 years my Model five flew today!
A short uneventful flight, now I can get down to some serious flying.
IMGP2907.JPG
Jim Corner
Model 2, 582,. Ivo med !FA, 1100 hrs
Model 5 under construction
Calgary, AB