Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gp

April 04, 2008 - April 25, 2008



      >> using
      >> a power stapler or brad driver you would be building an Ingersoll-Rand 
      >> Air
      >> Crimper but for sure not a Pietenpol Air Camper!
      >>
      >> ;o)
      >>
      >> Oscar Zuniga
      >> Air Camper NX41CC (which has some air-driven staples in it!)
      >> San Antonio, TX
      >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Which Locktite to use?
I would think that locktite #620 would hold on your applicaton very well. Ken H HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: Gentlemen, My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need recommendations from some experts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corvair engines
Fellow Pieter's, I have two complete Corvair engines disassembled complete ready to rebuilt if any member is looking for a Corvair engine. Everything is in very good condition! These engines were purchased from a Certified Corvair Service Mechanic who truly knows his stuff! I purchased these engines for $350.00 each. If any member is interested please advise and I will box up and send to you for the same cost I have in them. Buy the pair and I'll drop the price to $600.00 even plus shipping. If no interest...Ebay bound! Email me if need more information. Ken H. Fargo, ND Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol?
Date: Apr 04, 2008
Just found these on my desk. not the pest quality, since mi scaner is MIA a digital pix of a print picture but I think this will work. you can see the shelf i spoke about, the canted cabanes and the missing wing center section. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Gallon Milk Jugs
Chris, When I left gov service with a high clearance rating then down loaded so I am not in a position this morning to answer yes or no. Big brother still watches. Nathaniel (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Any Dallas Area Builders
Any Pietenpol builders in the Dallas area that I might be able to contact? Milt Atkinson (Lewisville area) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2008
Even if these things are not pietenpols, they certainly seem like close relatives. Kind of like this one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175022#175022 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/scan000a_fullinit__189.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Any Dallas Area Builders
Date: Apr 05, 2008
Haven't seen him on the list for a while but Jeff Hill was building a pair of Piets up at Tailwind Airport near the Speedway... He flys for American and lives in Trophy Club. Very nice guy! jeff2dogs(at)sbcglobal.net or jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com Not sure which is a good email address for Jeff. DL Grammont down at Lancaster has (or had) a flying Air Camper. Not sure how to get ahold of DL. Jim Markle ----- Original Message ----- From: Milt Atkinson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Dallas Area Builders Any Pietenpol builders in the Dallas area that I might be able to contact? Milt Atkinson (Lewisville area) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2008
Subject: what kind of harley wheels?
For those of you who've used the late model harley rims, which model bike are they from - any late model? Thanks, Tom B. _____________________________________________________________ Click here for a free search to find an interior design school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngK3N6tBMTystjojQo0SvMIPLOvbJlPOPX6PnUl9zqYoqFo/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Sun n Fun
Boys: Anybody, besides myself, flying out commercial tomorrow? I'm leaving Manchester-Boston Southwest Air @0745. Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
I;ll be there Thursday and Friday, but I only need to drive 2 hrs to get there :-) I'll check in at the woodworking tent every day. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > Boys: > > Anybody, besides myself, flying out commercial tomorrow? I'm leaving > Manchester-Boston Southwest Air @0745. > > Al Lyscars > Manchester, NH > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Flew out MHT-MCO, o-dark 30 yesterday (Sat 4/5). Setting up the workshop now. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars(at)verizon.net> >Sent: Apr 6, 2008 11:20 AM >To: Piet List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > >Boys: > >Anybody, besides myself, flying out commercial tomorrow? I'm leaving Manchester-Boston Southwest Air @0745. > >Al Lyscars >Manchester, NH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
I'll be there at some point. Ryan Ben Charvet wrote: I;ll be there Thursday and Friday, but I only need to drive 2 hrs to get there :-) I'll check in at the woodworking tent every day. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > Boys: > > Anybody, besides myself, flying out commercial tomorrow? I'm leaving > Manchester-Boston Southwest Air @0745. > > Al Lyscars > Manchester, NH > > * > > > * --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Sky Scout for sale
Date: Apr 06, 2008
I finally made a web page for my Sky Scout project. I want to finish it, but I have nine other airplane projects I am working on right now and another new one coming in two weeks. If it does not sell I will finish it. It is #3 in line right now behind a Monerai motor glider that will be ready in two to three weeks and a customer's KR-2 project. Possibly I will have a customer Pitts project and a couple of RVs jumping ahead of it also soon. The web site is at: http://www.engalt.com/pietenpol_sky_scout_project.htm Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 06, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Wow, that is some drastic mods to the original plans (but some beautiful work), don't want to hear anyone give any builders grief for changing their wingspan by a couple inches after seeing this. Rick On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Michael Silvius wrote: > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 06, 2008
By the way that photo was from a Sport Aviation with a date of Feb 1982 Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this a Pietenpol 2? Wow, that is some drastic mods to the original plans (but some beautiful work), don't want to hear anyone give any builders grief for changing their wingspan by a couple inches after seeing this. Rick On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Michael Silvius wrote: -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 06, 2008
Sure looks nice. I like the looks a lot more than a standard Piet. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is this a Pietenpol 2? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Michael Silvius wrote: [insert photo/cap here] Gee, I'd always wondered about doing that! Now let's go to a more modern airfoil and a Corvair engine, and maybe reinforce the wing to make it cantilever, and.... Actually, I love this idea. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2008
Don't stop there Owen! Sounds like a great set of ideas! Bob Santa Fe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175173#175173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol?
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2008
I don't know - maybe a St Croix??? Bob Santa Fe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175174#175174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair engines
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 06, 2008
Just curious - what a re the model numbers? Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175175#175175 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 06, 2008
First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs total time, and has been a great plane. I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole on the side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least 12 gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can, one can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation in itself created a fire hazard in the hangar. I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the strength of the whole system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than 10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed. Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin. There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the only mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank. Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel valve would not require a new fly-off period. Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it would damage the tank before the fitting would just fall off like this. I will remove the tank this week and post a few pictures. Thanks for any suggestions or input! Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 06, 2008
This is a really cool example of home building. Thanks, Rob Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, Alaska 907-230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is this a Pietenpol 2? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
bhassel wrote: > Don't stop there Owen! Sounds like a great set of ideas! Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing. What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Mmmmmmmm? Fiber glass tank. Were you using gas with ethonal in it? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse Sent: April 7, 2008 12:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs total time, and has been a great plane. I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole on the side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least 12 gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can, one can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation in itself created a fire hazard in the hangar. I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the strength of the whole system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than 10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed. Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin. There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the only mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank. Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel valve would not require a new fly-off period. Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it would damage the tank before the fitting would just fall off like this. I will remove the tank this week and post a few pictures. Thanks for any suggestions or input! Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Pietn38b <pietn38b(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Steve A quick fix, depending on fuel quantity requirements, would be to install a J-3 tank. I have one in mine and it works well. I am not a composite person but would be very wary of a repair of a used composite tank. I don't live too far from you so would be glad to show you my installation if you would like. Jim Ballew Pietenpol Aircamper Collinsville, OK 918-371-9624 In a message dated 04/06/08 23:38:33 Central Daylight Time, steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes: First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs total time, and has been a great plane. I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole on the side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least 12 gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can, one can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation in itself created a fire hazard in the hanga r. I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the strength of the whole system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than 10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed. Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin. There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the only mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank. Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel valve would not require a new fly-off period. Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it would damage the tank before the fitting would just fall off like this. I will remove the tank this week and post a few pictures. Thanks for any suggestions or input! Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout. Outermost wing profile beyond the crank pitches down in chord for lower airspeed control while main wing is already staled and this is change in pitch is built in to the box spar. I am completing a Falconar F-12 with this detail. And the one piece Jodel/Falconar wing at 27 feet is not the most convenient in terms of work space. I had to build a bump out in my shop just to fit the wing. I do think the low wing Piet is attractive esthetically and it makes access to the front cockpit a lot simpler. I think on order to do it properly one would be best advised to look at the FlyBaby structure. I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net> > Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing. > What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube > leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the > Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy > Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA > category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own > gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a > relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition. > > Owen > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Michael, Thank you for the consideration of our tender feelings! For those who may not have seen this, here is a link to the Spacewalker II: http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jaricher/flying/warner_airplane_info.pdf. It's a low wing, open cockpit, kit. Looks like it has a metal fuse and wood & fabric wings...no struts. Though I am a lifetime PT-22 fan, I have nearly maxed out on UV and the shade of a high wing is welcome! Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (6 ribs down...) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout. Outermost wing profile beyond the crank pitches down in chord for lower airspeed control while main wing is already staled and this is change in pitch is built in to the box spar. I am completing a Falconar F-12 with this detail. And the one piece Jodel/Falconar wing at 27 feet is not the most convenient in terms of work space. I had to build a bump out in my shop just to fit the wing. I do think the low wing Piet is attractive esthetically and it makes access to the front cockpit a lot simpler. I think on order to do it properly one would be best advised to look at the FlyBaby structure. I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net> > Trouble is, I'm nowhere near enough of an engineer to rework the wing. > What would it take, a sturdy built-up spar or two and a proper D-tube > leading edge? A full plywood cover? One might start by looking at the > Jodel wing. The D-11 is about the right empty weight for a heavy > Pietenpol, but its gross would take the "low-wing Piet" out of the LSA > category. I suppose if we design and build the plane we can set our own > gross? That leaves only the question of whether we really want to take a > relatively simple project and complicate it beyond all recognition. > > Owen > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
I see that there is an aluminum disc attached to that whole mess. You might consider epoxying two .040 aluminum straps (so that they will fit thru the hole in the bottom) in a place where you can rivet or screw the 'disc' to them. This in conjunction with cleaning and patching. That might give you a fitting that is less likely to pull out. Also consider mounting that shut off some where on the firewall, or the fuse side where it can be easily reached, but secure. Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (6 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to
builders The plane has never had autogas in it. Avgas only. I believe the problem here is that fiberglass resin was used as an adhesive or "glue", with no fiber. It is my understanding that resin is not intended for this purpose, and so the mechanical connection to the tank was poor. With sloshing compounds like POR15, how much concern is there with the compound coming loose, even 20 years down the road? I've head of this happening...of course once the compound is loose, it can clog the fuel system. What is the life expectancy of POR15? Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing how you attached your fuel tank fitting? I like the idea of putting aluminum bracing inside the tank, perhaps with rivnuts or some other permanent fasteners insde the tank in a 3" or so radius. Of course I'll have to locate a magician who can make these components appear inside the tank, or use straps as Gary suggested. That would be a very strong connection to the tank. Using a J3 tank had crossed my mind, but my current tank holds 18 gallons, I would like to not reduce my range at all. I have a 2.5hr range currently, but I consider about 3 gallons in this tank unusable due to its height above the carburetor (not enough head pressure to meet the carb specs). Also, I intend to put a cable operated remote fuel shut off in the cockpit, that was part of my reason for doing messing with the whole fuel system. With the original installation I couldn't reach the fuel valve from the cockpit, and the original fuel valve was too stiff to be cable operated. I bought a new valve that should work well with a cable operator. Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate you builders helping out a lowly non-builder. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Michael Silvius : > If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, > repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the > tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it > further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. > Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer. > > Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Home Made Air Speed Indicator - follow up notes
John, Regarding the vane style air speed indicator - Building Notes I did not measure anything when building my airspeed indicator, however it's about 7-1/2" tall and about 5" wide at the bottom and about 1-1/2" at the top. If I make another, I'll trim some width off the top. I started with a piece of spring wire and found that I needed about a 7" length of wire on the paddle end for the air pressure to deflect the spring a reasonable amount. I happen to have some very thin spring wire (too thin) and some 0.078" dia wire which I used, so my options on wire were limited. The wire stiffness helped to designate the overall size of this. I used 0.020" 6061 aluminum because that's the material I had laying around. I added the 3/16" creases in it to stiffen it which worked very well. I milled the 1/8" wide slot in the spring guide by drilling the two end holes, then I placed a steel straight edge from hole to hole (tangent to the holes) and used a little cut off wheel on the dremel tool to cut the straight line (guiding the wheel against the straight edge). That took about four minutes total. I have since pop riveted the spring guide to the body of the assembly. I originally hesitated in fixing the spring guide to the body, until I decided how I would attach the assembly to the jury strut. I thought I may use the same pop rivet hole to hold the jury strut attachment fitting, as I was challenging myself to make this out of as few pieces as possible, and to make it look simple. I didn't have any little lock nuts for those small bolts either, so I made temporay nuts out of a piece of aluminum sheet. I referenced the same documents that Bill Church posted (Chuck Larsen and Dawn Patrol) to build mine. They were very helpful. As stated in my posting, I intend this to be a decorative air speed indicator only, and I am not planning on relying on it's accuracy, although I will try to tune it by bending the vane wire. I am sure there is no right way to make these and like all Piets, every one is a winner because some body built it to completion. Thank you, john e. wisconsin ----- Original Message ---- From: "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com" <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 8:55:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Home Made Air Speed Indicator For those of us that would like to try our hand, do you have dimensions and detail drawing information from which to work? John In a message dated 4/2/2008 9:47:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, johnegan99(at)yahoo.com writes: Hello Group, I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made. The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner" by Chuck Larsen. Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker to indicate speed. Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape). I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...). I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured nothing. My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator is on the panel. This is a fun little project. John E Wisconsin Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Looks from the pictures that the fitting just came unbonded from the tank, not a break of the glass used to make the tank. Correct? For one thing, looks like the metal was not bonded to the tank at all. Looks like the metal was not even roughed up properly for gluing it. The metal should be sanded with something like 60 grit sand paper then cleaned with MEK. Or is the hole in the tank just so big that there is nothing to glue to? Putting another four or five layers of glass on the tank in something like six or eight inch round pieces over the hole should fix that problem. Also, is the tank resin the same thing that was used to glue the metal on? Perhaps a vinyl ester or polyester resin tank that had the metal glued on with epoxy? Was the tank roughed up properly before glueing the metal on? My favorite thing to use is a wire wheel on a drill. That does a much better job than sand paper does. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse Sent: April 7, 2008 12:34 AM To: Pietenpol List Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders First I guess I should state that I am a non-builder owner. I bought my GN-1 3 years ago, and have flown it around 300hrs. It has about 500hrs total time, and has been a great plane. I took a friend up for a brief flight this evening, and when we landed I started removing all of my fuel lines and fittings, I intend to replace the rubber lines with stainless braided lines. My fuel tank is a fiberglass 18.3 gallon tank in the nose. I was pulling the fuel line off the nipple on the fuel valve at the bottom of the tank, and the entire fuel valve, strainer, and all fittings broke right off the bottom of the tank! This left the ~3/8" hole in the bottom of the tank wide open, which poured some fuel into the cockpit until I was able to stick my finger in the hole. I was working through an inspection hole on the side of the fuse directly behind the firewall. There were at least 12 gallons of fuel in the tank, which we had to empty using a coffee can, one can at a time. Luckily I had a friend there with me, I would've been in trouble if I had been working alone like I usually am. As you can imagine, this situation in itself created a fire hazard in the hangar. I was not using excessive force on the fuel line, a moderate kick by the passenger would've had the same effect. It would've resulting in immediate engine failure, a forced landing, and the emptying of the fuel tank into the cockpit! A very, very bad situation! That is something for builders to take note of, make sure your fuel fittings are very, very sturdy! I was replacing the rubber fuel lines with stainless braided lines to increase the strength of the whole system, little did I know that the fuel tank fitting probably had less than 10% of the strength of the rubber fuel lines that were installed. Attached are three pictures of the broken fitting, as well as one picture of the fitting I had taken several weeks ago to help me decide what I needed to do to change the valve and hoses. As you can see, the fitting and strainer were held to the tank only by a large glob of fiberglass resin. There was no fiber in this glob, so the mechanical bond to the tank was relatively weak. The "blob" was also placed on the tank after the tank had cured, so the resins were not actually mixed, the blob was just "stuck" on the cured tank. This was the only mechanical bond between the tank fitting and the tank. Now, I need to determine what to do to get the plane airworthy. I can build another tank, or I could try to determine a way to attach my new fuel valve to the old tank. Of course, my primary concern is being able to attach the valve in a very secure manner. I believe replacing the tank would legally require a new restricted fly-off period by the local FSDO as it is a major change. I belive replacing the the existing fuel valve would not require a new fly-off period. Any tips anyone can give me on a good method to secure a new valve to the existing tank would be greatly appreciated. I fly this plane a lot, and flying season is here so I hate to have it down, but repairing it properly and safely is my primary concern. I would like the new valve to be mounted to the tank using a method that is strong enough that it would damage the tank before the fitting would just fall off like this. I will remove the tank this week and post a few pictures. Thanks for any suggestions or input! Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what kind of harley wheels? - H-D Sportster
Hello Tom, I've attached my information and photos regarding the Harley-Davidson rims and spokes I used to build my Piet wheels. My disclaimer: This project is not complete and the wheels have not been flown off or landed on, so no testing or experience has occurred. I bought the rims and spokes from "Doc's" motorcycle shop in Waterbury, Conn., and I referanced the Doc's part numbers below. I do not know if these are "Harley" numbers as well. I believe Doc's in on-line. Rims: Doc's part no: 15-944 250x19 40 hole, drop center steel $64.99 each I was told at Doc's that this is a front rim for a Harley Davidson - Sportster model Spokes: Doc's part no: TR490892 Chrome spoke set $39.95 each set the spokes are about 0.090" in diameter and fit the rims, however I do not know if the spoke are used on a Sportster. I bought the spokes to fit my hub/rim combination. Photos attached. john e. wisconsin ----- Original Message ---- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.com> Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 10:36:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what kind of harley wheels? For those of you who've used the late model harley rims, which model bike are they from - any late model? Thanks, Tom B. _____________________________________________________________ Click here for a free search to find an interior design school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijngK3N6tBMTystjojQo0SvMIPLOvbJlPOPX6PnUl9zqYoqFo/ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to
builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
With a properly prepared fuel tank surface and a properly prepared aluminum piece you should be able to use just epoxy to stick them together. and it should break the tank before the bond separated. Mixing glass in the resin does you no good at all in this application Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Ruse Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders The plane has never had autogas in it. Avgas only. I believe the problem here is that fiberglass resin was used as an adhesive or "glue", with no fiber. It is my understanding that resin is not intended for this purpose, and so the mechanical connection to the tank was poor. With sloshing compounds like POR15, how much concern is there with the compound coming loose, even 20 years down the road? I've head of this happening...of course once the compound is loose, it can clog the fuel system. What is the life expectancy of POR15? Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing how you attached your fuel tank fitting? I like the idea of putting aluminum bracing inside the tank, perhaps with rivnuts or some other permanent fasteners insde the tank in a 3" or so radius. Of course I'll have to locate a magician who can make these components appear inside the tank, or use straps as Gary suggested. That would be a very strong connection to the tank. Using a J3 tank had crossed my mind, but my current tank holds 18 gallons, I would like to not reduce my range at all. I have a 2.5hr range currently, but I consider about 3 gallons in this tank unusable due to its height above the carburetor (not enough head pressure to meet the carb specs). Also, I intend to put a cable operated remote fuel shut off in the cockpit, that was part of my reason for doing messing with the whole fuel system. With the original installation I couldn't reach the fuel valve from the cockpit, and the original fuel valve was too stiff to be cable operated. I bought a new valve that should work well with a cable operator. Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate you builders helping out a lowly non-builder. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Michael Silvius : > If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, > repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the > tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it > further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. > Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer. > > Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to
builders Steve: I am not a fiberglass expert by any means but I do have the assistance of a son who is. He helped me in all stages of this fiberglass tank project which is detailed in nauseating detail on the link below. When you get WAY to the bottom you will see the finger strainers in their sumps. These screw into brass fittings that look a little like a top hat with the brim inside the tank. I'm not sure how you would do this now unless you were willing to split your tank again so you could get you hands inside. http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS >Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing >how you attached your fuel tank fitting? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: This is not a Pietenpol but...
Date: Apr 07, 2008
In 2001, just after the first rumors about the new Sport Pilot Rule, a group of Pietenpol builders in Italy got to thinking that the Piet would make a great LSA. They decided to modernize the design and out of respect to Bernard named the line Sport Campers just reflecting the original origin out of respect. With the Sport Camper family of aircraft it is possible to choose between three different aerodynamic layouts: the low wing "LoCamp"- the parasol wing "HiCamp" - the biplane "BiCamp". The aircraft may look romantic, but under the skin they are modern state of the art machines. All parts are CAD designed and produced by CNC/laser cutting equipment to exacting tolerances and perfect finish. www.aerolab.it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to
builders Thanks Tom, That is how I THOUGHT my tank was built, with some type of "top hat" threaded device built into the tank, secured to the tank by layers of glass on top and bottom of the "top hat" brim. That is how it should have been done, at least in my opinion. Thanks for the pictures. Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? My tank had the same finger strainer, but the strainer was just stuck to the tank, there was no good mechanical bond. Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting TOM STINEMETZE : > Steve: > > I am not a fiberglass expert by any means but I do have the > assistance of a son who is. He helped me in all stages of this > fiberglass tank project which is detailed in nauseating detail on > the link below. When you get WAY to the bottom you will see the > finger strainers in their sumps. These screw into brass fittings > that look a little like a top hat with the brim inside the tank. > I'm not sure how you would do this now unless you were willing to > split your tank again so you could get you hands inside. > http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm > Tom Stinemetze > McPherson, KS > > >> Who here is using a fiberglass tank? Do you have any pictures showing >> how you attached your fuel tank fitting? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders Steve: I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web. Tom S. > Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Michael Silvius wrote: > Yes But the Spar on the D-11 is a bear to build with its built in washout. [etc.] > I wasn't thinking of using the wing itself, just considering that we know the spar is strong enough because it already works. Now straighten it out end-to-end, remove the washout, change the airfoil, etc. That is, just use the D-11 wing as a model to make a self-supporting Piet wing. I'd have to make two, because the only way I could be sure it was strong enough is to break the first one. No doubt a decent engineer could just run the numbers. As for the inconvenience of a one-piece wing, I was seriously thinking of making my Piet wing one piece just to avoid the weight of the fittings. But if that doesn't bother you, no doubt the Jodel-style wing could be subdivided as needed. > I would call it an Air-sportster instead of an Aircamper and leave the > Pietenpol part off in order not to offend the purists. Fair enough. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: This is not a Pietenpol but...
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Yes they look nice and the website is very slick but now you are in to a kit. And you are thusly paying for someone else to do your work for you. The whole appeal of the Pietenpol or for that matter the Flybaby is that you build it from plans and raw materials and there is a real rustic simplicity to them. It is about as economical as you can get in a real aircraft. I would not be surprised to see you in for 50 thou $ by the time you are done in on of them slick Italian kits. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: <BYD(at)att.net> > In 2001, just after the first rumors about the new Sport Pilot Rule, a group of Pietenpol builders in Italy got to thinking that the Piet would make a great LSA. They decided to "modernize" the design and out of respect to Bernard named the line "Sport Campers" just reflecting the original origin out of respect. > > With the Sport Camper family of aircraft it is possible to choose between three different aerodynamic layouts: the low wing "LoCamp"- the parasol wing "HiCamp" - the biplane "BiCamp". The aircraft may look romantic, but under the skin they are modern state of the art machines. All parts are CAD designed and produced by CNC/laser cutting equipment to exacting tolerances and perfect finish. > > www.aerolab.it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Gary Boothe wrote: > Thank you for the consideration of our tender feelings! For those who may > not have seen this, here is a link to the Spacewalker II: > http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jaricher/flying/warner_airplane_info.pdf. I have given the Spacewalker II serious thought, but it has two drawbacks for me: They don't sell plans, just the kit. And the plane is not LSA. They have been promising an LSA version for two years or more, but it hasn't shown up yet, at least on the website. Now, if I could find out how that wing is built, it might solve the problem of how to build the un-Piet. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie question
I personally like Wicks Aircraft supply, out of ILL better for my wood orders. I am building a Jungster 1 all wood bipe, and have found wicks' wood quality, and clean cutting to be better than A.S.S. Shad --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This is not a Pietenpol but...
From: "BYD" <byd(at)att.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Michael, You are absolutey right! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175317#175317 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Steve, another way to mount the valve may be with the "Rubber Tank Grommet" that California Power Systems sells. They advertise it as "snap-in fuel compatible rubber grommet for blind sealing of valves or fittings in fuel tanks." "Requires 33/64" access hole in tank." www.800-airwolf.come or 510-357-2403. Good Luck and keep us posted Gene in Tennessee ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/5/2008 7:53 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This is not a Pietenpol but...
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Am I missing something or is there more to the web page than the picture. I could find a links that would give any detail. It looks like it has flaps. I love the low wing approach. Some how it looks even more 30's - ish than the parasol. hmmm.... Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175324#175324 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This is not a Pietenpol but...
From: "BYD" <byd(at)att.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Should be hot-links along the bottom like Products and Events. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175326#175326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Top, bottom or both the question seems to keep coming up airfoil. Between the Warner and the Italian version in the other link the lower winged Piet has some real eye appeal. A little stretched, bigger tail, different airfoil, did anyone say flaps (oh that was me sorry - just indigestion). Fun, fun, fun! Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175330#175330 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This is not a Pietenpol but...
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Thanks - it looks like the color of the links was playing tricks on my old eyes. Couldn't see the links at all. Bob Santa Fe Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175335#175335 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Antique Altimeters
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
If you're in the market for an antique altimeter, this seller has three different ones available: http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZaircapinst Starting bid is $300 for each. Auction ends in less than 24 hours, and so far no bids. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie question
Shad, Saw your post on building a Jungster 1. Nice small Biplane. How big a person can fit in the cockpit? I like it's looks. Just pondering project #3. Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie question I personally like Wicks Aircraft supply, out of ILL better for my wood orders. I am building a Jungster 1 all wood bipe, and have found wicks' wood quality, and clean cutting to be better than A.S.S. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2008
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders
I wouldn't use that tank anymore if it were me.....On william wynns web page he found a tank where they had used webbing from a lawn chair or something...not saying that is what this is, but there is no way of knowing what went into this tank. Del If the tank is not weak elsewhere, I would clean it thoroughly, repair appropriately with plenty of fiberglass and then slosh the tank with POR15 to prevent the ethanol blends form affecting it further. I believe the ethanol is a likely cause of your break. Others have fixed the problem with the POR15 tank sealer. Michael Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Hickory
Date: Apr 07, 2008
Thank you, Gary A. Boothe CALPLY Sales Manager Architectural Products Division gboothe(at)calply.com Cell: (510) 760-0805 E-fax:(510) 880-5945 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electric start
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I found a 90HP Franklin 4AC-199 with all the trimmings off of an Air Camper, with mount, prop, and baffles. Assuming the mount is built to plans, it is pretty much turn key for us. The price is right, it's local, and its in the HP range we're looking for. It doesn't have electric start and I can't sell my dad on the fact that he's not too old to prop start a plane. The other Franklins I've seen have the starter in the acc. housing . I'm no A&P so how much trouble am I asking for if I add a flywheel to the hub and mount a starter on bottom? Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electric start
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I can't see the weight being a factor since the 90 hp is more than enough to lift both if you as well as the starter and periferals.Just my take on it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com Sent: April 8, 2008 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electric start I found a 90HP Franklin 4AC-199 with all the trimmings off of an Air Camper, with mount, prop, and baffles. Assuming the mount is built to plans, it is pretty much turn key for us. The price is right, it's local, and its in the HP range we're looking for. It doesn't have electric start and I can't sell my dad on the fact that he's not too old to prop start a plane. The other Franklins I've seen have the starter in the acc. housing . I'm no A&P so how much trouble am I asking for if I add a flywheel to the hub and mount a starter on bottom? Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Electric start
What is the full model number of the engine? The following 90hp Franklin models came with starters: 4AC-199B3, D3, E3, E4, H3 It may be as simple as swapping the rear accessory housing and a gear to be able to add a starter to a non-starter model. You may try to find a Franklin or Stinson (the Voyagers use a variant of the engine) guru or shop and ask them about it. The TCDS for the engine has info on what accessories were certified with which model: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/regulatory_and_guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/5186dc2d8bcd40158525670c005678e5/$FILE/ATT7U7FQ/TC226.pdf Ryan I found a 90HP Franklin 4AC-199 with all the trimmings off of an Air Camper, with mount, prop, and baffles. Assuming the mount is built to plans, it is pretty much turn key for us. The price is right, it's local, and its in the HP range we're looking for. It doesn't have electric start and I can't sell my dad on the fact that he's not too old to prop start a plane. The other Franklins I've seen have the starter in the acc. housing . I'm no A&P so how much trouble am I asking for if I add a flywheel to the hub and mount a starter on bottom? Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 08, 2008
And what about this one? http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Nope. Why did he pick the name Pietenpol?? Shouldn't at least ONE thing be the same?? Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? > > > And what about this one? > > http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Speaking of an electric start
Did anyone find a way to add a starter to an A-65? Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Question concerning longerons
Air Camper longerons are 13' 5" on top and would have to be a bit longer on the bottom due to the curve. Do you guys order the 1"X1" longerons as one section .. That is, would I order 4 pieces about 15' long or 8 pieces about 8' long and then splice them? Milt Atkinson (still dreaming . haven't started yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Question concerning longerons
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Milt, Order 4 pieces, I ordered 4 x 16 feet pieces from AS&S. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question concerning longerons Air Camper longerons are 13=92 5=94 on top and would have to be a bit longer on the bottom due to the curve. Do you guys order the 1=94X1=94 longerons as one section =85. That is, would I order 4 pieces about 15=92 long or 8 pieces about 8=92 long and then splice them? Milt Atkinson (still dreaming =85 haven=92t started yet) "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion 7.5.519 / Checked by AVG. 7/04/2008 6:38 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question concerning longerons
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Milt I ripped mine from poplar plank S2 at full length then scarfed the joints to lengths greater than needed. Then cut each to lengths that kept joints away from each other to avoid any compounding of weekness that may have resulted from any of the joints Not certain if that's a valid concern or the right method or not its just the way I did it John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:44:23 To: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question concerning longerons Air Camper longerons are 13 5 on top and would have to be a bit longer on the bottom due to the curve. Do you guys order the 1X1 longerons as one section . That is, would I order 4 pieces about 15 long or 8 pieces about 8 long and then splice them? Milt Atkinson (still dreaming havent started yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Question concerning longerons
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Longerons are spliced on NX18235. 130 hours in various levels of turbulence and lots of my abusive landings. No problems. Use good wood and good adhesive. Follow standard practices and you'll have no worries. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Milt Atkinson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question concerning longerons Air Camper longerons are 13' 5" on top and would have to be a bit longer on the bottom due to the curve. Do you guys order the 1"X1" longerons as one section .. That is, would I order 4 pieces about 15' long or 8 pieces about 8' long and then splice them? Milt Atkinson (still dreaming . haven't started yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Question concerning longerons
Date: Apr 08, 2008
Milt, Most will say to order to length, or cut from large stock that you purchase to do the spars. I have chosen to use poplar on everything except the spars, and just started splicing the longerons. I am laminating =BD=94 x 10=92 (that way the scarf joints are well staggered), using a 15 to 1 scarf joint. I have a very easy jig for cutting the joints that works on a table saw. I started with the straight, upper longeron, and the laminating process will help with the lower one, though bending doesn=92t seem to have been a problem with any one. So far, so good=85=85I should say that my wood provider just told me on Monday that he can get me 16=92 lengths, easily. I may switch over, but either way it should work out well. Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, Working on fuse, (6 ribs down...) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question concerning longerons Air Camper longerons are 13=92 5=94 on top and would have to be a bit longer on the bottom due to the curve. Do you guys order the 1=94X1=94 longerons as one section =85. That is, would I order 4 pieces about 15=92 long or 8 pieces about 8=92 long and then splice them? Milt Atkinson (still dreaming =85 haven=92t started yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of an electric start
Walt, Yes. If you search the air boat industry there is a few guys I have spoken to who have made the conversation using automotive parts and a flywheel drilled to match the crank shaft. I will search for the information but I do remember speaking with some air boat dealers in Florida who can lead you in the right direction for parts. Ken Heide Fargo, ND walt evans wrote: Did anyone find a way to add a starter to an A-65? Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders
Date: Apr 08, 2008
I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose tonight, it literally took about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I have some questions about repairs to the tank: The tank is mounted in the nose above the passenger's feet, so any fuel leaks at this fitting are in the cockpit. For that reason, I'd like the new fitting to be strong enough that the tank would break before the fitting fell off. If this fitting had broken off in flight, all of the fuel (18.3 gallons when full) would have drained into the passenger floorboard (not to mention the engine would have been dead). This experience has given me a strong appreciation for fuel tank designs like Chuck Gantzer's, where the fuel is entirely isolated from the cockpit interior. Excellent design, in my opinion. For the new fuel fitting installation, I'd like to be able to screw a 90 degree elbow to the new tank fitting, and screw a new fuel valve to the elbow, that way the valve won't drop 5" from the bottom of the tank like it did on the original install. I also intend to install a cable operated fuel shuttoff, which it didn't have before. I can handle all of that, I just haven't done fiberglass work before, so I'm leary of repairing the fiberglass tank myself. It is about 21" inches from the filler neck down to the sump/fitting location (through the tank). There is no way to access the inside of the tank except through the filler neck. The tank is "three layers of fiberglass with Safe-T-Poxy" according to the logbook. Could I possibly cut an access hole in the top of the tank, install the new fitting through that hole, and then patch the hole? Is patching a fiberglass tank that simple? Tom, I believe this is the "top hat" flange you were talking about, that works with the finger strainer: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php Thanks for the help everyone. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders Steve: I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web. Tom S. > Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol. It says so right on the . wheelpants? Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts, cabanes, . oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine Pietenpol wingtips. I think the registration letters tell a tale. VLP = Very Little Pietenpol -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? --> And what about this one? http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr =62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Several Years ago I saw a 1930s biplane fighter at an airshow (the Peashooter I think) and when I asked the owner about making a replica he laughed and said it was a restoration. He had recovered a wreck in South America and the left wingtip and a part of a Longeron were origional and he "restored" the rest. So All you really need is one or two parts. Blue Skies Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 8:29 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? > Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol. > It says so right on the . wheelpants? > > Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts, > cabanes, . oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine > Pietenpolwingtips. > > I think the registration letters tell a tale. > VLP = Very Little Pietenpol > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > MichaelSilvius > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? > > --> > > > And what about this one? > > http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol- > Aircamper/0320877&photo_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2?
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Looks like it used the same centerline as a "normal" Pietenpol. Reminds me of when I was working for General Dynamics years ago. We got a contract for a new reconnaisance airplane only because it was a "modification" to an existing airplane, the B-57 Canberra. The new RB-57 that we built had exactly one component in common with the original B-57. It shared the same nosewheel. Other than that the only common component, as the engineers joked, was the centerline of the aircraft. Politically, it was easy to get funding for a modification, but difficult to justify a whole new airplane program. And people wonder why the Defense Department pays $1,000 for a hammer. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? Well, obviously it is a Pietenpol. It says so right on the ... wheelpants? Let's see, the builder changed the fuselage, cowl, tail, liftstruts, cabanes, ... oh, wait, the wing tips definitely look like genuine Pietenpol wingtips. I think the registration letters tell a tale. VLP = Very Little Pietenpol -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is this a Pietenpol 2? --> And what about this one? http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&phot o_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L <http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0320877&pho to_nr=62&prev_id=0353981&next_id=0314779&size=L> _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Ada Air Expo 2008
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Greetings all, I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008. Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details. Regards, Terry Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Ada Air Expo 2008
Terry, I intend to be there, assuming I can get my fuel tank repaired before then. Steve Quoting Terry Hall : > Greetings all, > > I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part > of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo > and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada > Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008. > > Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details. > > Regards, > Terry Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ada Air Expo 2008
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to ask, you are not in that part of the country. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hall Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008 Greetings all, I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008. Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details. Regards, Terry Hall _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Ada Air Expo 2008
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Sorry about that. I left out a key abbreviation--we are located in east central Oklahoma. Thanks for the correction. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008 And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to ask, you are not in that part of the country. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hall Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008 Greetings all, I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008. Go to www.adaairexpo.com for more details. Regards, Terry Hall http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Subject: Re: Ada Air Expo 2008
Several years ago, Hoyt Axton in a Pizza Hut commercial dubbed it the cultural center of the universe. Now that should be more than ample direction and give away clue as to the location of or where one can find Ada or as some have described it :"greater Ader". I hope that helped clarify the exact location, just look for the cultural center of the universe! John In a message dated 4/9/2008 11:46:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes: And what part of the country would that be? I guess if you have to ask, you are not in that part of the country. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hall Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo 2008 Greetings all, I want to extend an invitation to all Piet enthusiasts in this part of the country to join us for the 2008 version of the Ada Air Expo and the 2nd annual Pigs Can Fly BBQ contest held at the Ada Municipal Airport (ADH) on Saturday, June 14, 2008. Go to _www.adaairexpo.com_ (http://www.adaairexpo.com/) for more details. Regards, Terry Hall http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dumb wing spar mistake?
I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib positions on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to rotate one of the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced lamination on the wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I thought). Long story short the marks where the lift strut brace go were for the wrong orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes about 2 inches from where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No problem, I thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I hadn't glued the plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the holes in the correct place and glued the doublers in place, completely covering my mistake. However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up thinking about stuff like this, I had second thoughts..... At this point, I thought I'd throw it out to the list for opinions. Should I remake the spar, or will the glued in plugs and plywood reinforcements be acceptable? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Steve, I've built several epoxy tanks and can make the following suggestions: a) you have to cut a hole in the top of the tank to be able to access the interior or it will not hold, b) the hole in the top is less likely to leak, c) get inside and scuff the surface up about 6" by 6" use min. 80 grit. d) using epoxy and flox, glue a 1/4 thick, 3" by 3" AL flat stock over where you want the hole, on the inside of the tank. e) using a satin weave like 7781 fiberglass, laminate over the AL flat stock, after you have floxed the edges of the AL flat plate so the glass laminate transitions smoothly to the tanks surface. f) use min. four plies of fiberglass. g) now on the outside of the tank, laminate 4 plies of epoxy and fiberglass about 8" by 8" over the area of the AL embedded plate. h) after the epoxy cures, you may want to heat it with a hot air gun until it's kinda hot to the touch. Drill and tap a hole for the new threaded fuel fitting., i) vacuum up any drilling waste out of the inside of the tank. j) now to fix the hole you cut in the top. Take the piece you cut out and rough it up 80 grit. k) take popcicle or tongue depresser sticks and flox them to the four sides of the cutout piece. l) after they have set up, put the cut out piece back in the hole you cut, using the sticks to support the cutout piece. m) using flox and epoxy you can now tape a strip of epoxy around the edges you have cutout. n) after this sets, remove the wooden sticks. Now put min. four plies of epoxy/fiberglass over the entire cutout piece overlapping to the tank by 2" all around. The trick to getting good bonding is always make it very very rough. Epoxy is hard to stick to, there's no chemical bond to the tank's surface, so you have to get a good mechnical bond. Also, anytime you're repairing a fuel tank, it's gonna have oils/fuel additives in the epoxy, so you absolutely have to get these scrubbed off with acetone/ and 80grit to get a new laminate to bond properly. Any questions you can give me a call at 907-235-4882 or email off group. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose tonight, it literally took about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I have some questions about repairs to the tank: The tank is mounted in the nose above the passenger's feet, so any fuel leaks at this fitting are in the cockpit. For that reason, I'd like the new fitting to be strong enough that the tank would break before the fitting fell off. If this fitting had broken off in flight, all of the fuel (18.3 gallons when full) would have drained into the passenger floorboard (not to mention the engine would have been dead). This experience has given me a strong appreciation for fuel tank designs like Chuck Gantzer's, where the fuel is entirely isolated from the cockpit interior. Excellent design, in my opinion. For the new fuel fitting installation, I'd like to be able to screw a 90 degree elbow to the new tank fitting, and screw a new fuel valve to the elbow, that way the valve won't drop 5" from the bottom of the tank like it did on the original install. I also intend to install a cable operated fuel shuttoff, which it didn't have before. I can handle all of that, I just haven't done fiberglass work before, so I'm leary of repairing the fiberglass tank myself. It is about 21" inches from the filler neck down to the sump/fitting location (through the tank). There is no way to access the inside of the tank except through the filler neck. The tank is "three layers of fiberglass with Safe-T-Poxy" according to the logbook. Could I possibly cut an access hole in the top of the tank, install the new fitting through that hole, and then patch the hole? Is patching a fiberglass tank that simple? Tom, I believe this is the "top hat" flange you were talking about, that works with the finger strainer: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php Thanks for the help everyone. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders Steve: I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web. Tom S. > Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Date: Apr 09, 2008
plugged and plywood plates it should be fine. I would not change anything. I hate those middle of the night realizations . . . get some sleep. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Charvet<mailto:bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dumb wing spar mistake? > I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib positions on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to rotate one of the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced lamination on the wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I thought). Long story short the marks where the lift strut brace go were for the wrong orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes about 2 inches from where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No problem, I thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I hadn't glued the plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the holes in the correct place and glued the doublers in place, completely covering my mistake. However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up thinking about stuff like this, I had second thoughts..... At this point, I thought I'd throw it out to the list for opinions. Should I remake the spar, or will the glued in plugs and plywood reinforcements be acceptable? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 09, 2008
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Ben, I personally would not hesitate to fly behind this spar as repaired. The doublers will strengthen the whole area and there is no way I see those holes becoming a stress riser. When doing a repair of a cracked spar, the method is simply to use plywood doublers per AC43-13. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. (
http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Ben, That's one of the great things about working with wood. >From all I've heard from, including my Mentor, over the years,,,That's completely acceptable for a wood fix. Carry on Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dumb wing spar mistake? > > I've done something incredibly dumb. I carefully marked the rib positions > on my right wing spars (laminated 3/4 in DF) I decided to rotate one of > the spars 180 degrees because I wanted the one spliced lamination on the > wingtip end. I erased all the previous marks (I thought). Long story > short the marks where the lift strut brace go were for the wrong > orientation, and I drilled the three 1/4 inch holes about 2 inches from > where they needed to be (inboard of the lift strut). No problem, I > thought, I'll just plug the holes with 1/4 inch dowel. I hadn't glued the > plywood doublers in place yet, so I redrilled the holes in the correct > place and glued the doublers in place, completely covering my mistake. > However, at 2 AM, the time I tend to wake up thinking about stuff like > this, I had second thoughts..... At this point, I thought I'd throw it > out to the list for opinions. Should I remake the spar, or will the glued > in plugs and plywood reinforcements be acceptable? > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > Headed to Sun'nFun tomorrow.. I'll ask Dick Navratil while I'm there > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: FAA registration form
Date: Apr 09, 2008
After someone's post, I've decided to go ahead and register, rather than renewing my N number each year. Before I fill out the form though, I wanted to get your input on what I should write in the "manufacturer and model" box, and in the "serial number" box. I'm thinking of putting "Pietenpol air camper experimental" in the first and "Blumberg Pietenpol 001" in the second. Thoughts/ experiences?? Thanks, as always. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAA registration form
Date: Apr 09, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Douwe, You are the manufacturer. Or you might not get your repairman certificate for this Airplane! Hans -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:01 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA registration form After someone's post, I've decided to go ahead and register, rather than renewing my N number each year. Before I fill out the form though, I wanted to get your input on what I should write in the "manufacturer and model" box, and in the "serial number" box. I'm thinking of putting "Pietenpol air camper experimental" in the first and "Blumberg Pietenpol 001" in the second. Thoughts/ experiences?? Thanks, as always. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders
Date: Apr 09, 2008
I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose last night, it literally took about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I have some questions about repairs to the tank: The tank is mounted in the nose above the passenger's feet, so any fuel leaks at this fitting are in the cockpit. For that reason, I'd like the new fitting to be strong enough that the tank would break before the fitting fell off. If this fitting had broken off in flight, all of the fuel (18.3 gallons when full) would have drained into the passenger floorboard (not to mention the engine would have been dead). This experience has given me a strong appreciation for fuel tank designs like Chuck Gantzer's, where the fuel is entirely isolated from the cockpit interior. Excellent design, in my opinion. For the new fuel fitting installation, I'd like to be able to screw a 90 degree elbow to the new tank fitting, and screw a new fuel valve to the elbow, that way the valve won't drop 5" from the bottom of the tank like it did on the original install. I also intend to install a cable operated fuel shuttoff, which it didn't have before. I can handle all of that, I just haven't done fiberglass work before, so I'm leary of repairing the fiberglass tank myself. It is about 21" inches from the filler neck down to the sump/fitting location (through the tank). There is no way to access the inside of the tank except through the filler neck. The tank is "three layers of fiberglass with Safe-T-Poxy" according to the logbook. Could I possibly cut an access hole in the top of the tank, install the new fitting through that hole, and then patch the hole? Is patching a fiberglass tank that simple? Here are some pictures of the tank and fitting: http://www.wotelectronics.com/Bottomoftank.JPG http://www.wotelectronics.com/holeinbottomoftank.JPG http://www.wotelectronics.com/Leftsideoftank.JPG http://www.wotelectronics.com/oldfittingandfingerstrainer.JPG Tom, I believe this is the "top hat" flange you were talking about, that works with the finger strainer: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php Thanks for the help everyone. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning to builders Steve: I got my finger strainers and the associated fittings from Aircraft Spruce. I just did a quick search on their site but could not find it in time to keep my boss from catching me on the web. Tom S. > Do you know where the threaded brass "top hat" fitting came from? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Ada Air Expo 2008
You might have to ask Douglas Adams. :-) Nasty Crow I hope that helped clarify the exact location, just look for the cultural center of the universe! John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: registration and paint cans
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Hey, Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, is that the affidavit? Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Engine choices
Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? What are the pros and cons? Milt Atkinson (plans ordered . still dreaming) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Engine choices
Date: Apr 10, 2008
I know that the general advice is against it, however I know VW conversions with the redrive fly on the CH701 and CH601. I am also aware of a Pipper Cub in Brazil that has flown successfully on a VW. it is experimental aviation after all. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Milt Atkinson Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Engine choices
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Not enough weight..... DIT-VIT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? What are the pros and cons? Milt Atkinson (plans ordered . still dreaming) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Engine choices
> Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? >What are the pros and cons? Milt: Weight is the big issue as the heaviest weight I have found for a 4-cyl flight ready VW is around 147 lbs. A typical Corvair installation without the blower is 212 to 225 lbs. I don't know about the Model A but I believe I have heard it is over 200 lbs also. The nose would have to get pretty long to make that balance out and then you would have to deal with ground handling issues. Tom Stinemetze ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please!
The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW engines. There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded Piet well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough recent discussion about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and steeples, etc. in A-65 Piets on warm days. The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes. I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've never seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any experienced aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't mean that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a single-place Scout with Riblett wings. You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out. To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA statistic one warm day. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> >Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > >Not enough weight..... > >DIT-VIT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > > > Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? > > > What are the pros and cons? > > > Milt Atkinson > > (plans ordered . still dreaming) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Subject: georgia piets anyone?
I am working in the greater Atlanta area next week for a few days and wanted to visit a Piet, anyone interested? Please advise Thanks John Recine NX895BP reserved In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, timothywillis(at)earthlink.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tim Willis The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW engines. There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded Piet well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough recent discussion about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and steeples, etc. in A-65 Piets on warm days. The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes. I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've never seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any experienced aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't mean that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a single-place Scout with Riblett wings. You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out. To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA statistic one warm day. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> >Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > >Not enough weight..... > >DIT-VIT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > > > Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? > > > What are the pros and cons? > > > Milt Atkinson > > (plans ordered . still dreaming) > > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine choices
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Milt, Many have considered it but there are two problems with the VW. Both can be fixed and sooner or later someone will Fly one successfully on a Pietenpol problem 1; Weight The VW would require a longer nose to balance the airplane. The longer nose would create a aerodynamic unbalance and you probably would have to increase the rudder and vertical stab. Problem 2: Prop efficiency The VW has enough HP but at higher RPM, which results in small diameter props Small diameter prop is not a good combination on a slow and high drag airplane like a Pietenpol Solution: PSRU, there are a few VW based systems that might work, larger prop lower RPM and more weight. But it might work Hans Flying NX15KV with Corvair power -----Original Message----- From: Milt Atkinson <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:19 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? What are the pros and cons? Milt Atkinson (plans ordered still dreaming) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Engine choices
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Here's a link to an analysis of the VW engine as applied to a Piet (among other things). http://users.aol.com/bpanews/3questions.html#vw Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? What are the pros and cons? Milt Atkinson (plans ordered . still dreaming) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Many months back I asked about seatbelt attach points and shoulder harness attach points. I got excellent answers on 3 out of 4-- everything except the PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help, please. Seatbelt attach points for the passenger are problematic to me. Between a) having nearby only skinny little sticks-- both those making diagonals near the control assembly, and those holding up the passenger seat; and b) needing to accommodate room for my overlarge feet, there is neither much existing strength for a high-G seatbelt load, nor much room for added structure. I will soon be making some rearrangements in the passenger seatback to give myself more shin room, so I would like to solve the passenger seatbelt attach points at the same time. I am thinking of incorporating cables to the tailpost area, to transfer the load, as many have done with the pilot's seatbelt attachments. But in a crash, what keeps the more proximate steel fittings from popping loose from the floor, the seatback supports, or whatever? Obviously, I am looking for strength without much added weight, and it has to be slim, too, because, well, I am not. Thanks, Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please!
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Tim: For what it is worth, the CH 701 was designed around the VW engine. Most do use a redrive and it was at one point the only engine recommended by Chris Heinz. see: http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo18.html and http://www.culverprops.com/zenith-701.php that swings a convetional length prop. The 801 is a different animal all together. This however does not mean that the VW is a suitable engine for a Pietenpol The Pete Bowers specifically pointed out that the VW was not suitable for the Flybaby for the same reasons you state. Personaly beyond the Corvair I'd consider the Subaru EA81 wiht a belt redrive as an alternative for the Piet. like tis one: http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=19 Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> > The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jungster 1
From: "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Walt, I sell the Jungster 1 plans for Stan McLeod. The Jungster 1 has a narrow fuselage, so if you are very big, you need to widen it. That is very simple to do. It is a very nice flying airplane if built to plans, light and you make the landing gear correctly. According to Stan, many a homebuilt taildragger has the landing gear set up wrong. I have a Jungster 1 project for sale. Shad is doing a nice job on his Jungster 1. He is going to have a bunch of fun some day! Pastor Mike Townsley in Iowa -------- Serve the Lord with gladness, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175985#175985 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sky Scout for sale
From: "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Would you sell it without the engine, without the prop, with out the radiator? If so, what is your asking price? Thank you, Mike -------- Serve the Lord with gladness, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175986#175986 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine choices-- NO VW, Please!
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Think I would rather consider something that would work well on a hot day, ways about the same as an 0-200 and can be purchased new with a warranty like the Franklin 0-235 PZL, they are on sale for $6900. http://www.franklinengines.com/index.cfm Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175992#175992 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout for sale
Date: Apr 10, 2008
I guess. I have a bunch to do and am leaving to go back to Sun N Fun in the morning. Give me a few days to think about it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of iowaboy Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout for sale Would you sell it without the engine, without the prop, with out the radiator? If so, what is your asking price? Thank you, Mike -------- Serve the Lord with gladness, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175986#175986 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
> PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help, please. I would like to echo this request. It appears the only place to attach the passenger seat belts would depend on a glue joint in shear for strength - not a good thing. Tom Stinemetze ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Tom, Here is what I designed and fabricated for my front passenger. I also used an angle iron cross bar that runs across the bottom and uses the both side longerons for grip. Then I used the seat belt clasp and drilled the hole larger to accept the bolt which hold the passenger should harness. The harness is from a local dirt racing store. $34.00 for each set with all mounting brackets. TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help, please. I would like to echo this request. It appears the only place to attach the passenger seat belts would depend on a glue joint in shear for strength - not a good thing. Tom Stinemetze Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: registration and paint cans
Date: Apr 10, 2008
Hi Douwe, Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or more people only one of you can be the manufacturer. Model and serial number is your choice. Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........ Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Hey, Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, is that the affidavit? Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: You didn't say how many VW's...
Date: Apr 10, 2008
About 40 years ago, a guy by the name of Lacey in Tulsa did use a pair of 40hp VW engines to repower his M-10 homebuilt (it did have a C-90) -- the swept area of (2) 4 1/2 ft dia. VW props is a bit more than that of a 6ft Piet prop. What Would Bernard have Done?? Who knows! Cheers! Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 10, 2008
On NX18235 the passenger lap belt is anchored to the ash cross piece at the bottom of the seatback. The shoulder harness is anchored to a lug that is welded to the right rear cabane strut. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points > > > Many months back I asked about seatbelt attach points and shoulder harness > attach points. I got excellent answers on 3 out of 4-- everything except > the PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need > some help, please. > > Seatbelt attach points for the passenger are problematic to me. Between > a) having nearby only skinny little sticks-- both those making diagonals > near the control assembly, and those holding up the passenger seat; and b) > needing to accommodate room for my overlarge feet, there is neither much > existing strength for a high-G seatbelt load, nor much room for added > structure. > > I will soon be making some rearrangements in the passenger seatback to > give myself more shin room, so I would like to solve the passenger > seatbelt attach points at the same time. > > I am thinking of incorporating cables to the tailpost area, to transfer > the load, as many have done with the pilot's seatbelt attachments. But in > a crash, what keeps the more proximate steel fittings from popping loose > from the floor, the seatback supports, or whatever? Obviously, I am > looking for strength without much added weight, and it has to be slim, > too, because, well, I am not. > > Thanks, > Tim in central TX > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BScott116(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Subject: Re: Engine choices
Log onto the Dawn Patrol web site. They (8?) are all flying WWI replicas with VWs. Mostly make about 60 HP but can be built up to 100HP. I built a Half vw from Great Plains and it really roars. All new parts! In a message dated 4/10/2008 12:50:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, silvius(at)gwi.net writes: I know that the general advice is against it, however I know VW conversions with the redrive fly on the CH701 and CH601. I am also aware of a Pipper Cub in Brazil that has flown successfully on a VW. it is experimental aviation after all. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: _Milt Atkinson_ (mailto:miltatkinson(at)verizon.net) Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I attached my front seatbelts with a AN5 bolt directly through the ash cross-member (and the floorboard, and the steel strap beneath that which links the two rear lift struts). I did not install shoulder harnesses in my Pietenpol, but the front seat could easily use the rear cabane struts as an attach point. Here are a couple of photos showing my seatbelt attachments: Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points > PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help, please. I would like to echo this request. It appears the only place to attach the passenger seat belts would depend on a glue joint in shear for strength - not a good thing. Tom Stinemetze _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine choices
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Oscar contributed an interesting article to the second quarter BPA Newsletter regarding this exact issue. He uses the configuration of his Piet (long fuse, A65, split axle gear, 16 gal fuel tank in the fuselage) and some basic W+B numbers to illustrate that by using an Aerovee engine it should be quite possible. To summarize, his A-65 weighs 170lbs dry; an Aerovee weighs 158 lbs. By adding the battery/battery box/cables/etc forward of the firewall and moving the Aerovee one inch farther forward it should balance out. It should be feasible. Whether or not it's the ideal powerplant for a Piet is debatable, but it should be doable. As I said, the full text is in the second quarter Brodhead Pietenpol Association newsletter. http://www.pietenpols.org/ Ryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176118#176118 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bingelis books 2 for 1 @ EAA
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Saw this in my inbox, and thought I'd pass it along. I received an EAA "ehotline" email this morning, and in it was an advertisement for a two-for-one special on the four Tony Bingelis books. For those that don't have them, it's a pretty cheap way to pick them up (I had two, so I completed my set). You can order at: http://shop.eaa.org/html/bingelis_books.html?card_id or call 1-800-564-6322. While supplies last, they note. Ryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176124#176124 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
NX421GN has the lap belt attached through the ash cross piece and the shoulder strap attached to the rear wing spar, exiting between the flop panel and the center section. After I figured 20g stresses for the ash cross piece, I mounted a steel doubler (rectangular tubing stitch welded to a strip) below the floor--external to the fuselage--you can see it on the outside, to bear on the longerons and absorb the stress. At first I thought it would be too ugly, but after it's painted, you can barely see it. Gene Hubbard Tim Willis wrote: > >Many months back I asked about seatbelt attach points and shoulder harness attach points. I got excellent answers on 3 out of 4-- everything except the PASSENGER seat belt attach points. I got no answers for that. I need some help, please. > >Seatbelt attach points for the passenger are problematic to me. Between a) having nearby only skinny little sticks-- both those making diagonals near the control assembly, and those holding up the passenger seat; and b) needing to accommodate room for my overlarge feet, there is neither much existing strength for a high-G seatbelt load, nor much room for added structure. > >I will soon be making some rearrangements in the passenger seatback to give myself more shin room, so I would like to solve the passenger seatbelt attach points at the same time. > >I am thinking of incorporating cables to the tailpost area, to transfer the load, as many have done with the pilot's seatbelt attachments. But in a crash, what keeps the more proximate steel fittings from popping loose from the floor, the seatback supports, or whatever? Obviously, I am looking for strength without much added weight, and it has to be slim, too, because, well, I am not. > >Thanks, >Tim in central TX > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 11, 2008
I don't wish to appear cynical, and I certainly do wish to provide all the protection for the pilot (me) and any passengers, and certainly some very good advice on secure attach points has been provided, but.... Just how much security can we expect from our harnesses? Surely we don't want to get bucked out of the airplane in rough air, nor do we want to fall out in a poorly executed loop, but will our harness really protect us in a crash? Somebody mentioned 20 g's. I'm pretty sure our bodies would explode internally in 20 g's, plus the airframe itself would disintegrate. Thinking that the truth lies somewhere between here and there, can someone educate me on the thought process going into designing an attach point? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, working on fuse (6 ribs down...) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cubs and Champs
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Gary, I liken the Pietenpol to airplanes like Cubs and Champs and those plus many more like Luscombes, Taylorcrafts and other 1940's era airplanes had simple lap belts. The attach points shown by several members are excellent anchor points and this really shouldn't be overthought. I purchased my lap belts from JC Whitney and they have the airline style lever-to-release opening style. Your worst enemy during a crash is probably banging your head on your instrument panel, thus the cockpit combing you see on many old open cockpit airplanes. You don't have shoulder harnesses ? You do what they did in the old days--you fly with one hand and before 'landing' you straight arm the panel with the other. Sounds crude but it beats getting smashed up in the head. Other things like fuel tank fires and your wings collapsing on you are things I'd be more concerned with. I've seen some really whimpy diagonal tube bracing holding the wings in position in lieu of the X brace on the right side of the passenger compartment between the front cabanes and rear cabanes that probably would let the wing go forward quickly in a crash, trapping the front passenger or worse yet the X cables just behind his head cutting him up good. Anyway--my two cents. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Buy a copy of Tony Bingelis' book "The Sportplane Builder". In fact, every Pietenpol builder should own all four Bingelis Books, as they are "The Bible" for airplane building. 95% of the questions on this list can be answered by reading one of those books. To quote from "The Sportplane Builder" : "...Air Force and Navy tests have proven that a 20-G harness will eliminate 90 percent of aircraft accident injuries." So if you weigh 200 lbs, the attach points need to be capable of withstanding a 4,000 lb load. They can bend under such a load but they should not break. EAA is currently running a "Buy 1 get 1 free sale on the Bingleis books, which means you can basically get the whole set for about $40. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points I don't wish to appear cynical, and I certainly do wish to provide all the protection for the pilot (me) and any passengers, and certainly some very good advice on secure attach points has been provided, but.... Just how much security can we expect from our harnesses? Surely we don't want to get bucked out of the airplane in rough air, nor do we want to fall out in a poorly executed loop, but will our harness really protect us in a crash? Somebody mentioned 20 g's. I'm pretty sure our bodies would explode internally in 20 g's, plus the airframe itself would disintegrate. Thinking that the truth lies somewhere between here and there, can someone educate me on the thought process going into designing an attach point? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, working on fuse (6 ribs down...) > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Good question. While someone no doubt has the test result G-numbers, the idea is that at the very instant of impact with an unyielding object such as a tree or the ground, for an instant, you may experience more than 10 Gs. I believe that two football players colliding in a head-on tackle do this all the time, for instance. You are right that 20 Gs sustained for even a few seconds almost certainly would kill those in the aircraft. As you know, in a crash the loose body continues its former vector as the airframe stops, and the strain transfers to the seatbelt and its attachments, and ultimately to some of the airframe, portions of which may be destroyed by other forces, as well. Think car crash dummies, seat-belt tests, etc. We are seeking to prevent the seatbelt and steel fittings from transfering full forces to single glue joints, the thin floor, etc., that might immediately tear out or shear. There comes a point where the airframe can only handle so much, and beefing up the structure is useless. Moreover, planes are bulit to fly, not to crash, and excess weight is a major negative. Thus what we use has to be small, light, and effective. In general, we are trying to get the forces to transfer to compression of the longerons, which are braced, trussed, gusseted, and very strong in compression. BTW, I have only heard of one fellow looping a Piet, and no one rolling one. If others have.........., they ain't tellin' ;) Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Apr 11, 2008 1:25 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points > > >I don't wish to appear cynical, and I certainly do wish to provide all the >protection for the pilot (me) and any passengers, and certainly some very >good advice on secure attach points has been provided, but.... > >Just how much security can we expect from our harnesses? Surely we don't >want to get bucked out of the airplane in rough air, nor do we want to fall >out in a poorly executed loop, but will our harness really protect us in a >crash? Somebody mentioned 20 g's. I'm pretty sure our bodies would explode >internally in 20 g's, plus the airframe itself would disintegrate. > >Thinking that the truth lies somewhere between here and there, can someone >educate me on the thought process going into designing an attach point? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >WW Conversion 90% done, >Tail Group awaiting hinges, > >working on fuse > >(6 ribs down...) > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 11, 2008
Actually all newly certified airliners have 16G seats with the corresponding increase in floor strength because people can and do survive those kinds of momentary loads providing they are restrained properly and don't hit their heads on anything hard. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: April 11, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points I don't wish to appear cynical, and I certainly do wish to provide all the protection for the pilot (me) and any passengers, and certainly some very good advice on secure attach points has been provided, but.... Just how much security can we expect from our harnesses? Surely we don't want to get bucked out of the airplane in rough air, nor do we want to fall out in a poorly executed loop, but will our harness really protect us in a crash? Somebody mentioned 20 g's. I'm pretty sure our bodies would explode internally in 20 g's, plus the airframe itself would disintegrate. Thinking that the truth lies somewhere between here and there, can someone educate me on the thought process going into designing an attach point? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, working on fuse (6 ribs down...) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Date: Apr 11, 2008
I have to agree with Mike C on this one. We all have flown Cubs and Champs and thought nothing of the fact that they have no shoulder harnesses. All due respect to those that have done so, but I am scared of attaching a shoulder harness to the cabanes, especially at the top. In any accident, it is a high probability that a wing is going to hit SOMETHING, and I can see the wing wrenching backward and strangling someone with the cable/harness. I am currently wrestling with the lap belt attachment for the front seat. The best idea I can come up with is a steel strap bent 90 degrees and bolted through the ash cross piece and floorboard. With a large washer on it, you are not going to pull it out. I plan to have the steel strap bolted just outboard of the rear seat leg, then run up the leg with a bolt through it and the leg. Up at the top, I will have the seat belt itself attached to the strap (with a doubler) This will keep the belt out of the pilot's feet. This is the best idea I can come up with, but always willing to listen to others. Gene (back from Sun n Fun and dying to go to the hangar and get back on the Piet) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Speaking of an electric start
Ken, thanks for the reply. I would appreciate it if you would pass along infro , if you found it! Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of an electric start Walt, Yes. If you search the air boat industry there is a few guys I have spoken to who have made the conversation using automotive parts and a flywheel drilled to match the crank shaft. I will search for the information but I do remember speaking with some air boat dealers in Florida who can lead you in the right direction for parts. Ken Heide Fargo, ND walt evans wrote: Did anyone find a way to add a starter to an A-65? Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
Among other comments, Gene Rambo wrote: > We all have flown Cubs and Champs and thought nothing of the fact that > they have no shoulder harnesses. Do note that the son of a friend died in a Cub when a shoulder harness would have saved him. Harnesses aren't optional, IMHO, even in a low-and-slow airplane. How to put one in a Piet is another issue, and it's one worth solving. If anyone thinks of a way to do it that's safe without being unbearably ugly, I'd love to hear about it. Unfortunately, all I can think of is a steel framework like a turnover structure behind each pit. Easy to do on the steel-frame version I'll be building, but not pretty. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of an electric start
Walt, Wow..I found what I had emntioned to you. It was an item auctioned on ebay and I have downloaded the information. Seems pretty straight forward! Let us know the outcome as many are also interested . Ken Heide Fargo, ND walt evans wrote: Ken, thanks for the reply. I would appreciate it if you would pass along infro , if you found it! Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of an electric start Walt, Yes. If you search the air boat industry there is a few guys I have spoken to who have made the conversation using automotive parts and a flywheel drilled to match the crank shaft. I will search for the information but I do remember speaking with some air boat dealers in Florida who can lead you in the right direction for parts. Ken Heide Fargo, ND walt evans wrote: Did anyone find a way to add a starter to an A-65? Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points
And don't forget it has to attach at or preferably above shoulder level. If below it will compress the spine thus doing more harm than good. Clif If anyone thinks of a way to do it that's safe > without being unbearably ugly, I'd love to hear about it. Unfortunately, > all I can think of is a steel framework like a turnover structure behind > each pit. Easy to do on the steel-frame version I'll be building, but not > pretty. > > Owen > > > -- > Release Date: 4/11/2008 4:59 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: seat belt and shoulder harness
Date: Apr 12, 2008
I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a sudden stop? My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much. FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's feet. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it]
I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneID=481 Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: seat belt and shoulder harness
Date: Apr 12, 2008
As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a PFA- approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse (don't recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of the drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good enough to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is a very sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x- wires gives me the heebie-jeebies just on principle. Kip Gardner On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist > forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing > added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing > forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, > which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, > it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward > facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward > movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle > relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? > what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a > sudden stop? > > My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel > strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have > no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" > bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to > attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed > by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being > lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't > tighten up on the passenger as much. > > FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling > through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting > the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the > seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat > bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than > coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the > belt away from the pilot's feet. > > Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: seat belt and shoulder harness
Go to www.westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm Santiago --------------------------------- Yahoo! Encuentros Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho ms fcil, prob el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros. Visit http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: seat belt and shoulder harness
Date: Apr 12, 2008
Scans of the PFA-approved design. http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belt and shoulder harness As many of you know, I don't post to the list much any more, but I thought I'd throw this thought into the mix. The Brits have a PFA-approved design for front passenger shoulder strap & lap belt attachment. It involves a welded assembly behind the front headrest that carries down & attaches at several other points on the fuse (don't recall all the details right now). Someone sent me a scan of the drawing several years ago, unfortunately the quality is not good enough to rescan & send out. Although it will add some weight, it is a very sensible design. Attaching a harness to the cabanes or x-wires gives me the heebie-jeebies just on principle. Kip Gardner On Apr 12, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: I too have always questioned the strength of the wing to resist forward movement in the event of a crash. The original "X" bracing added one cable to help keep the center section from displacing forward, while the Diagonal struts add two tubes in compression, which may or may not be as strong depending upon the tubing used, it is very posssibly stronger in many installations. The forward facing "drag?" wire in the struts would resist some forward movement, but I"m not sure how much given the narrow/low angle relative to the wing. How many G's are we talking about anyways? what does the entire wing weigh, how much force is involved in a sudden stop? My plane has wooden cabanes and wood diagonal braces with a steel strap inside of them. This design of diagonal would clearly have no compressive strength. I am therefore thinking of using the "X" bracing as well. I was then hoping to feel confident enough to attach the front shoulder harnesses to the center of the "X" formed by the cables (rods in my plane) behind the front pit. Being lower, I felt that if the wing displaced diagonally it wouldn't tighten up on the passenger as much. FYI, like many others, I attached my front lap belt by drilling through the ash crosspiece, and through the steel strap connecting the fittings under the fuselage. However, I went just INSIDE the seat uprights and through two slits in the back of the seat bottom. This is pretty narrow, but really not much moreso than coming up outside the seat sides and it really helps to keep the belt away from the pilot's feet. Douwe http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robhart67(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it]
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Hi Ben Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting bolts ? Cheers Rob Hart One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400> From: bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt a arvet > > I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I gl ued in. The forward end is > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in p lace, then drilled and > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, an d gets the shoulder > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results o f harness failures > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mount ing.> > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogI ===================> > > _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au e%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813 %2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 12, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it]
I plan to use drilled head bolts, but I haven't figured out what to wire them to yet. Building a Piet is full of creative things like this isn't it? Ben Rob Hart wrote: > Hi Ben > > Thanks for the picture. How did you safety the lower cabane mounting > bolts? > > Cheers > > Rob Hart > One of four builders in Perth, Western Australia > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:10:05 -0400 > > From: bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Passenger seatbelt attach points- how I did it] > > > > > > > I got this idea from the UK website. The rear mounts bolt through the > > upper longeron and an extra cross piece I glued in. The forward end is > > mounted to the through bolts for the cabanes. I turned down a piece of > > steel rod to fit inside the tube, welded it in place, then drilled and > > tapped it for the bolt.. It doesn't weigh much, and gets the shoulder > > harness up to shoulder level. I've seen the results of harness failures > > in a friend at our local airport, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, > > its impossible to test it, (I hope to never have to test it) but this > > seems to take advantage of the structure available for mounting. > > > > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1576&PlaneI====================== > &g================= > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > at CarPoint.com.au It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cubs and Champs
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2008
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov wrote: > Gary, > You don't have shoulder > harnesses ? You do what they did in the old days--you fly with one > hand and before 'landing' > you straight arm the panel with the other. Sounds crude but it beats > getting smashed up in the > head. I'm not convinced it would really do much for you in any kind of a significant thump except get your arm broken up before cracking your noggin.. would it? -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176556#176556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: georgia piets anyone?
Date: Apr 13, 2008
John , I am building a piet in Lagrange, Ga. I will be glad to have you visit if you like. It is an hour SW on I 85. Gardiner Mason. 706 594 3811 ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: georgia piets anyone? I am working in the greater Atlanta area next week for a few days and wanted to visit a Piet, anyone interested? Please advise Thanks John Recine NX895BP reserved In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, timothywillis(at)earthlink.net writes: The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW engines. There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded Piet well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough recent discussion about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and steeples, etc. in A-65 Piets on warm days. The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes. I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've never seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any experienced aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't mean that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a single-place Scout with Riblett wings. You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out. To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA statistic one warm day. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> >Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > >Not enough weight..... > >DIT-VIT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > > > Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? > > > > What are the pros and cons? > > > > Milt Atkinson > > (plans ordered . still e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spar Butt Joint Help
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hello all, Need some help please. I'm building the three piece wing. Looking at the attached picture, do I have to route out the semi-circle, pointed out by the pencil? It seems so for the straps to clear the spar 3/32 doubler. Thanks, Jack Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com <http://www.thepalmergroup.com/> This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Spar Butt Joint Help
Hi Jack, I discovered that problem after I'd already glued the doublers in place, bolted everything up and trammeled my wing. I was able to cut it out with a chisel. I pre-cut my doublers for the second wing. Making the second wing goes much faster, after you learn all these little tricks. Dick Navratil could probably tell us exactly, but I think building a second Piet would take about 1/4 as much time. Ben Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Hello all, > > Need some help please. Im building the three piece wing. Looking at > the attached picture, do I have to route out the semi-circle, pointed > out by the pencil? It seems so for the straps to clear the spar 3/32 > doubler. > > Thanks, > > Jack > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Spar Butt Joint Help
Date: Apr 13, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Boy that's the truth Ben. Even after watching the list and trying to look forward for obstacles I still hit a lot of snags. Just today I repositioned my outer tip braces because they interfered with the drag wires. Thanks for the help! Jack Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Butt Joint Help Hi Jack, I discovered that problem after I'd already glued the doublers in place, bolted everything up and trammeled my wing. I was able to cut it out with a chisel. I pre-cut my doublers for the second wing. Making the second wing goes much faster, after you learn all these little tricks. Dick Navratil could probably tell us exactly, but I think building a second Piet would take about 1/4 as much time. Ben Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Hello all, > > Need some help please. I'm building the three piece wing. Looking at > the attached picture, do I have to route out the semi-circle, pointed > out by the pencil? It seems so for the straps to clear the spar 3/32 > doubler. > > Thanks, > > Jack > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: one piece wing
Date: Apr 13, 2008
I need to talk to anyone who has built, or is building, a one piece wing. Please contact me offline and I will exchange phone numbers so we can talk a bit. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Spar Butt Joint Help
Date: Apr 13, 2008
Jack, Thats what I did. I didn't discover the problem until I went to slide the spar into position. I just used a Dremmel with a router attachment to relieve the are you are pointing to. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor Sent: 4/13/2008 1:48:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Butt Joint Help Hello all, Need some help please. Im building the three piece wing. Looking at the attached picture, do I have to route out the semi-circle, pointed out by the pencil? It seems so for the straps to clear the spar 3/32 doubler. Thanks, Jack Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: georgia piets anyone?
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Big Piet Builders regular workday is Monday night in Carrollton. Contact me off list and I will give you directions. Barry Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: georgia piets anyone? John , I am building a piet in Lagrange, Ga. I will be glad to have you visit if you like. It is an hour SW on I 85. Gardiner Mason. 706 594 3811 ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: georgia piets anyone? I am working in the greater Atlanta area next week for a few days and wanted to visit a Piet, anyone interested? Please advise Thanks John Recine NX895BP reserved In a message dated 4/10/2008 3:27:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, timothywillis(at)earthlink.net writes: The Piet has more drag than most, if not all of the planes flying VW engines. There is not enough HP left after the Piet's drag to lift a fully loaded Piet well, and the climb rate should be miserable. There has been enough recent discussion about safe loads and climbing rates, clearing trees and steeples, etc. in A-65 Piets on warm days. The few CH601s or the exceptional Cub with a VW engine are much heavier than the planes that usually have a VW engine, like a Flybaby or a Volksplane. Still, they have less drag than a Piet. Moreover, the usual planes with VW engines are single place. I don't think that the guys offering the CH601-701-801s recommend any VW engines for their planes. I have seen "never a VW" discussions in the Piet matronics archives. I've never seen anyone justify its use on a Piet. Lastly, I don't think any experienced aviator or builder would recommend using a VW on a Piet. That doesn't mean that someone hasn't tried it, though. And it might work OK on a single-place Scout with Riblett wings. You'd still have weight and balance problems, though, as pointed out. To me, the VW engine on a Piet sounds like a good way to end up as an FAA statistic one warm day. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> >Sent: Apr 10, 2008 12:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > >Not enough weight..... > >DIT-VIT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine choices > > > Has anyone considered or accomplished the use of a VW engine? > > > > What are the pros and cons? > > > > Milt Atkinson > > (plans ordered . still e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, they should be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fills the holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could be argued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon to do so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO. Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176773#176773 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
MikeD wrote: > To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, they should be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fills the holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could be argued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon to do so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO. I agree with your result, but the way you get there bothers me. For one thing, it's not just three holes now, but six. That means interrupting twice as many of the load-carrying wood fibers and weakening the spar (in tension) twice as much as the designer allowed for. The doublers will take up the slack. After all, in an I-beam spar a single layer of 1/8 ply provides most of the strength. But let's be clear about what is going on here. One of us might have a project someday where it really does make a difference. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Hi, My aluminum center section leading edge had a bunch of masking tape all but baked on to it. In getting the tape off I scratched the aluminum, so I polished it out, and the spot went from alclad to mirror finish. Had an EAA tech counselor look at my project and one of his suggestions was polish out the whole thing as it would look good. I about have it done, it does look good. Behind the aluminum section is a big square thin wood sheet that covers the reserve fuel tank. Now here is my question(s). Does the center section have to be covered with fabric? All the Piets/GN-1's I could find pictures of have them covered, however the wood and aluminum look really slick, and it seems like you would have to cut the fabric to access the gas tank vs. removing about a hundred little screws. Anyone know of a Piet with the center section not covered? Suspect the aluminum leading edge would be fine. (Mine is .040 T2024). The wood bottom/top pieces are what I am wondering about. They are pretty thin plywood, and have a coat of varnish on them, but have to wonder if they are structurally strong enough as is, and what it would take to adequately protect them from UV. Seems like the looks, lighter weight, better access to the tank would make it a reasonable idea. That is if the woood could take it. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176813#176813 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Jim, Here's a picture of Dick Navatril's center section - should answer your question. By the way, I think .040 aluminum is plenty heavy. .025 would probably be just fine. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, Working on fuse, (7 ribs down...) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? Hi, My aluminum center section leading edge had a bunch of masking tape all but baked on to it. In getting the tape off I scratched the aluminum, so I polished it out, and the spot went from alclad to mirror finish. Had an EAA tech counselor look at my project and one of his suggestions was polish out the whole thing as it would look good. I about have it done, it does look good. Behind the aluminum section is a big square thin wood sheet that covers the reserve fuel tank. Now here is my question(s). Does the center section have to be covered with fabric? All the Piets/GN-1's I could find pictures of have them covered, however the wood and aluminum look really slick, and it seems like you would have to cut the fabric to access the gas tank vs. removing about a hundred little screws. Anyone know of a Piet with the center section not covered? Suspect the aluminum leading edge would be fine. (Mine is .040 T2024). The wood bottom/top pieces are what I am wondering about. They are pretty thin plywood, and have a coat of varnish on them, but have to wonder if they are structurally strong enough as is, and what it would take to adequately protect them from UV. Seems like the looks, lighter weight, better access to the tank would make it a reasonable idea. That is if the woood could take it. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176813#176813 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Jim, The upper surface of the center section on NX18235 is plywood covering over the fuel tank. It is a removable panel for access to the fuel tank. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? > > Hi, > > My aluminum center section leading edge had a bunch of masking tape all > but baked on to it. In getting the tape off I scratched the aluminum, so I > polished it out, and the spot went from alclad to mirror finish. Had an > EAA tech counselor look at my project and one of his suggestions was > polish out the whole thing as it would look good. I about have it done, it > does look good. > > Behind the aluminum section is a big square thin wood sheet that covers > the reserve fuel tank. > > Now here is my question(s). > > Does the center section have to be covered with fabric? All the > Piets/GN-1's I could find pictures of have them covered, however the wood > and aluminum look really slick, and it seems like you would have to cut > the fabric to access the gas tank vs. removing about a hundred little > screws. > > Anyone know of a Piet with the center section not covered? Suspect the > aluminum leading edge would be fine. (Mine is .040 T2024). The wood > bottom/top pieces are what I am wondering about. They are pretty thin > plywood, and have a coat of varnish on them, but have to wonder if they > are structurally strong enough as is, and what it would take to adequately > protect them from UV. > > Seems like the looks, lighter weight, better access to the tank would make > it a reasonable idea. That is if the woood could take it. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176813#176813 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Dick's plane looks like it is fabric covered ... only with fabric that looks like wood, much like the rest of the plane, so not shure about that one. To have a removable wood section of thin plywood.. did you have to do anything to beef it up? What about UV protection.. is it painted? Was hoping to keep the natural wood finish somehow. No doubt I should have asked first and polished the aluminum later.. will say it was far more work than I had anticipated. Thought about giving it a number of coats of the clear coat from the T-88 folks, would toughen it up, but not sure it can handle UV. Seen Piets with wood landing gear, wood exterior sides, wood floors, etc. but not wood finished center sections.. even though most of them were wood there. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176824#176824 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Then again it does look like it really is wood.. hmm. Is there any really good clear UV protecting polyurethanes or epoxies, or varnishes that can hold up to the weather.. assuming the wood is strong enough to handle it I would love to keep the looks of the aluminum/wood. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176825#176825 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Dick would have to answer most of those questions, and I'm sure he will. Yes, his wings sorta look like wood, but they are fabric. But his center section and entire fuselage is all wood covered! If you can, check out the Feb edition of Sport Aviation. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? Dick's plane looks like it is fabric covered ... only with fabric that looks like wood, much like the rest of the plane, so not shure about that one. To have a removable wood section of thin plywood.. did you have to do anything to beef it up? What about UV protection.. is it painted? Was hoping to keep the natural wood finish somehow. No doubt I should have asked first and polished the aluminum later.. will say it was far more work than I had anticipated. Thought about giving it a number of coats of the clear coat from the T-88 folks, would toughen it up, but not sure it can handle UV. Seen Piets with wood landing gear, wood exterior sides, wood floors, etc. but not wood finished center sections.. even though most of them were wood there. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176824#176824 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Jim Markle
Is Jim Markle still on the list? Trying to contact him. Milt Atkinson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Jim Markle
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Try: jim_markle(at)mindspring.com (jim_markle(at)...) Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges, Working on fuse, (7 ribs down...) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle Is Jim Markle still on the list? Trying to contact him. Milt Atkinson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jim Markle
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Yup, I'm still here...or somewhere! Been a bit busy working two jobs lately but I did get your voice message and will be in touch! And congrats on getting your Air Camper plans in the mail today! That's great! JM Is Jim Markle still on the list? Trying to contact him. Milt Atkinson http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Warner Aircraft Sun N' Fun
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
There's a short link/video on AvWeb about the Warner LSA Convertible - Piet alike... http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1091-full.html#197650 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176851#176851 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2008
Jim, Be aware, the alclad is the protective coating on the outside of aircraft aluminum, it needs to be primed to prevent corrosion. In building aluminum aircraft (RVs for instance) any scratches that go thru the alclad are generally concerning, and even if considered non-structural, should be treated and primed within a few weeks, otherwise the scratch will be susceptible to corrosion. Not a huge deal, but worth a quick shot of self etching primer. My 2 cents.... Steve C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176887#176887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
Regarding the alclad.. the inside surface is fine, it was the outside exposed surface that I scraped, then sanded and polished. My intention is to have a polished aluminum exterior surface, like that on Airstream campers and many Luscombes. If I were painting it or I endup covering it, I would etch and prime it. Had I known how much work it was going to be I would have etched and primed the small shiny spot from removing the tape, then covered over it. Seeing the mirror finish with the wood makes me want it to be finished that way, it really is nice. Wondered how to deal with fairings around it, so when I went to Stewart Systems fabric class I asked about it, and they suggested using thin sheet metal for fairings, (I was considering thick leather) and maintaining the wings color for the fairing strips. That way the polished metal section and the wood sections could attach to the wings cleanly and the gaps would be handled well, and it would be pretty easy to attach and remove the fairings. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176910#176910 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
owen5819(at)comcast.net wrote: > MikeD wrote: > > > To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, they should be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fills the holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could be argued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon to do so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO. > > I agree with your result, but the way you get there bothers me. For one > > > > thing, it's not just three holes now, but six. That means interrupting > twice as many of the load-carrying wood fibers and weakening the spar > (in tension) twice as much as the designer allowed for. The doublers > will take up the slack. After all, in an I-beam spar a single layer of > 1/8 ply provides most of the strength. But let's be clear about what is > going on here. One of us might have a project someday where it really > does make a difference. > > Owen I think you are reading too much into my reply. I didn't suggest that any spar through-hole mistakes are acceptable. They obviously are not. I inferred from the decription that since the holes were laid out for the same bracket, and the spar was rotated about the spanwise midpoint by 180 degrees, the holes would be in line. They certainly should be if the description is accurate. If the holes are in line axially then significantly few new fibres are cut, assuming you have a decent piece of spar stock with a majority of axial fibres to begin with. Therefore, in this circumstance, I offered my opinion - all anyone can do here - that the situation did not warrant major concern. If doubt remains then it should be replaced or further rework made. Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176941#176941 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: registration and paint cans
Greg Have you ever heard of anyone successfully registering their Piet as a self launching glider? Rick On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM, gcardinal wrote: > *Hi Douwe,* > ** > *Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or > more people only one of you can be the manufacturer.* > ** > *Model and serial number is your choice.* > ** > *Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add > about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Douwe Blumberg > *To:* pietenpolgroup > *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans > > Hey, > > Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get > sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? > > Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, > is that the affidavit? > > Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering > dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. > > Douwe > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: registration and paint cans
Date: Apr 15, 2008
We tried, unsuccessfully. The FAR's state that the weight / wingspan requirements for certified self-launching gliders do not apply to experimental aircraft. We assumed that, because it was experimental, we were free to certify it however we wished. The inspector informed us that there is an FAA order that says experimental motorgliders do have to meet the same criteria as certified aircraft. So our attempt was unsuccessful. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Greg Have you ever heard of anyone successfully registering their Piet as a self launching glider? Rick On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:53 PM, gcardinal wrote: Hi Douwe, Only one name in the "Manufacturer" box. If you are building with one or more people only one of you can be the manufacturer. Model and serial number is your choice. Do NOT attempt to register it as a "Glider, self-launching". It will add about 6 months to your paperwork schedule........ Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration and paint cans Hey, Please chime in re how to fill out my registration form so it doesn't get sent back. Manufacturer and model? serial number? Also, they want proof of purchase, how do you tell them it's experimental, is that the affidavit? Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Subject: Re: Bad news - broken fuel tank fitting & warning
to builders >I pulled the fuel tank out of the nose tonight, it literally took about twenty minutes to remove the cover and fuel tank. What a simple job! It is great to have something that is so easy to work on. Now I have some questions about repairs to the tank: Steve, I've checked very carefully both groups of photos. It seems, at least to me, that two things are worth noting: 1) The tank in itself seems good enough to do the job, and should be kept. 2) The installation of the finger strainer flange was really very poorly made but it can be re-done properly. The reasons why the flange was pulled out are many: 1) It was not bonded to the underlying lamination at all 2) The holes in the outer portion of the flange are too small and too many 3) It was only "bonded" with resin with no top laminations Now let's see how it can be fixed. First, you say elsewhere that safe-t-poxy was used for the lamination, so that is what you should use. You should also look for some 8-10 bidirectional glass cloth, twill weave, industrial grade (aviation grade is not really necessary) and cotton flocks ("flox"). The work should be done without interruptions i.e. you should always work with something "wet" under. 1) Remove all traces of the old bonding and roughen the surface of the tank around the bottom hole in a radius of 3" + flange radius using a 60-80 grit sandpaper. 2) Remove all glue traces from the flange and enlarge the bonding holes. Using a rattail file, file away material between two adiacent small holes and enlarge the resulting slot with a large round file until it becomes a large hole. Roughen both surfaces of the flange with 60-80 grit sandpaper and degrease it in lacquer thinner or MEK. 3) Prepare a small quantity of resin, then mix with flox until the resulting paste does not run off. Spread a 1/8" thickness over the area that should receive the flange. More if the area is not flat. 4) Press the flange into position. The flox paste must ooze out of ALL the holes and around the flange itself. DO NOT EVER lift the flange otherwise all the effort to make a leak-free joint will be wasted. 5) Very carefully level the oozed paste into the holes and around the flange, taking away any excess. 6) Prepare three discs of fiberglass cloth with a 3/4" center hole: one 2" larger than the flange, one 4" larger and one 6" larger. 7) Place the small disc over the flange and through its threaded boss, and laminate it down the usual way. Use an excess of resin, you want to be sure that no delaminations/trapped air exist. 8) Place the middle disc over the freshly done small disc, with the weave at 45 degrees with regard to the weave of the smaller disc, and again laminate it down the usual way. 9) Place the larger disc over the freshly done middle disc, with the weave at 45 degrees with regard to the weave of the middle disc, and again laminate it down the usual way. Done. You should now let the laminate cure fully and set completely, perhaps leaving it untouched for a week, then test it for leaks using real fuel (do NOT use water as it is more viscous, you can have no leaks with water but leaks with fuel, been there done that). This technique was taught to me many years ago by a professional worker in the aerospace industry, and I used it in all my flange-related fiberglass work. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________ Virus and Spam checked by NSS Srl - http://www.nssitaly.com Compliant to DL #196 30/06/2003 Definition count: 606102 Definition date: 2008/03/11 MDAV version: 2.2.9 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tape edges
Date: Apr 15, 2008
I'm spraying my wings and tail parts and wanted to know what you guys did with the occassional pinked tape edget that just won't stay down. The Ceconite manual just says to work them down with the iron, which I've done, and do extra dope, which i've done and then to sand them. Does the sanding knock them back once they're really stiff with dope? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: registration and paint cans
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2008
douweblumberg(at)earthlin wrote: > > Another subject, five gallon paint cans. Any great ideas for transfering dope and thinners out of them?? they splash that expensive stuff everywhere. > If they have the retactable spout and the lid is firmly attached, make sure when you pour that you orient the spout to the top of the lid, so that you have to get the can close to level to pour and you have better control. I've seen people try to pour with the can near full and the spout low, and it is not pretty. If it does not start to flow with the can horizontal and the spout at 12 o'clock, you can slowly roll the can so the spout reached the liquid level gradually and controllably. If no spout - a pair of clean plastic containers, polyethylene (PE) or polypropylene (PP) only, works well. So does unwaxed paper (like bathroom cups) but not for straight solvents as they soak through mighty quickly. Polystyrene (PS) will start dissolving and contaminate the material. Hold one in each hand and have the destination vessel close at hand. Dip one to partially fill, lift clear of the surface, then quickly stick the second container under the drip/stream, and move both of them together to the destination vessel, and pour while pulling the drip catcher away. When done pouring that dip, stick the drip catcher back underneath and back to the 5 gal container. When done, let the stuff on the transfer container walls drip back into the source container. I've transferred hundreds of pounds of epoxy, solvents, and other materials over the years this way in the lab, and it works great for me. Make sense, yea/nay? Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177103#177103 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Dual Time
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Hi Guys, What a difference some duel time makes! I changed the wheels on my Piet to 6 x 8.00 aircraft wheels instead of the 24 inch wire ones. On Monday I had some dual time with an experienced tail wheel pilot/instructor. The difference is very noticeable. Going from =93this airplane is squirrelly=94 to =93very docile, nice flyer=94. The Corvair handled the passenger (first time with two people on board) with no problems. The temps are all very good now, even a bit cold. The oil pressure worries me a little because it is getting too high! On climb out (around 3000 rpm) on a cool morning I can see between 60 and 80 psi. I=92ll have to take it for a long fly and see what happens when the engine is really warm. I did some more circuit work this morning and found things a lot easier. I still have the adrenaline rush on a good landing but feel far more in control. I have just ordered a Zodiac 601 XL kit so no doubt that will have a Corvair on the front of it. Check out the web site for some new pictures. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com Checked by AVG. 15/04/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Dual Time
Any reason for changing the wheels? Was it part of the being "squirrelly" ? Milt Atkinson From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dual Time Hi Guys, What a difference some duel time makes! I changed the wheels on my Piet to 6 x 8.00 aircraft wheels instead of the 24 inch wire ones. On Monday I had some dual time with an experienced tail wheel pilot/instructor. The difference is very noticeable. Going from "this airplane is squirrelly" to "very docile, nice flyer". The Corvair handled the passenger (first time with two people on board) with no problems. The temps are all very good now, even a bit cold. The oil pressure worries me a little because it is getting too high! On climb out (around 3000 rpm) on a cool morning I can see between 60 and 80 psi. I'll have to take it for a long fly and see what happens when the engine is really warm. I did some more circuit work this morning and found things a lot easier. I still have the adrenaline rush on a good landing but feel far more in control. I have just ordered a Zodiac 601 XL kit so no doubt that will have a Corvair on the front of it. Check out the web site for some new pictures. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com Checked by AVG. 15/04/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Dual Time
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Milt, Yes, being a low time tail wheel pilot, I found the large spoke wheels had no give and would do what they liked. The soft 8.00 tires on the 6 inch wheels are have much more give and seem to be more controllable. Dual time has helped as well (probably more than the wheels!!!). Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 10:39 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dual Time Any reason for changing the wheels? Was it part of the being =93squirrelly=94 ? Milt Atkinson From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dual Time Hi Guys, What a difference some duel time makes! I changed the wheels on my Piet to 6 x 8.00 aircraft wheels instead of the 24 inch wire ones. On Monday I had some dual time with an experienced tail wheel pilot/instructor. The difference is very noticeable. Going from =93this airplane is squirrelly=94 to =93very docile, nice flyer=94. The Corvair handled the passenger (first time with two people on board) with no problems. The temps are all very good now, even a bit cold. The oil pressure worries me a little because it is getting too high! On climb out (around 3000 rpm) on a cool morning I can see between 60 and 80 psi. I=92ll have to take it for a long fly and see what happens when the engine is really warm. I did some more circuit work this morning and found things a lot easier. I still have the adrenaline rush on a good landing but feel far more in control. I have just ordered a Zodiac 601 XL kit so no doubt that will have a Corvair on the front of it. Check out the web site for some new pictures. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com Checked by AVG. 15/04/2008 6:10 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion 7.5.519 / Checked by AVG. 15/04/2008 6:10 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dual Time
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Hi Peter, This may or may not be a ridiculous question, since I'm not a pilot yet. You said it went from "squirrely" to "docile flyer". Did you see a change in the way the plane flies or was it mostly the ground handling improvements you were referring to? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177186#177186 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dual Time
From: "gswartley" <gregg.swartley(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Peter Great the here your flying!! I'm not building a Piet yet, but I watched your build via the internet and have not seen any updates to your site in a while and was worried you might have thrown in the towel. Glad to here your heat troubles are behind. Hope the Piet brings you joy for years to come and thanks for the great motivational site. Gregg -------- Gregg Swartley RV-9 Wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177241#177241 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Dual Time
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Glenn, Ground handling. The Piet has always handled well in the air. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, 17 April 2008 12:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dual Time Hi Peter, This may or may not be a ridiculous question, since I'm not a pilot yet. You said it went from "squirrely" to "docile flyer". Did you see a change in the way the plane flies or was it mostly the ground handling improvements you were referring to? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177186#177186 Checked by AVG. 6:10 PM Checked by AVG. 6:10 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: one piece wing
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Gene I have built both the one and three piece wing. Your e mail address didnt appear on your post. You can mail me back at horzpool(at)goldengate.net Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: one piece wing I need to talk to anyone who has built, or is building, a one piece wing. Please contact me offline and I will exchange phone numbers so we can talk a bit. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Jim and all I just got back from Sun n Fun and am going thru 600+ e mails. The finish on my plane Fuselage and wing center section are wood covered with 2 oz. fiberglass cloth. I used 207 hardner with the West system epoxy and applied 3 finishing coats. Then I applied 4 coats of Marine Spar Varnish for UV protection on all wood surfaces. The wings are covered with Stits Poly fiber using clear Poly Brush as a base, then multiple coats of clear Poly Tone paint with an added pigment. Stits furnished me with UV additive for the paint. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood OK? > > Dick's plane looks like it is fabric covered ... only with fabric that > looks like wood, much like the rest of the plane, so not shure about that > one. > > To have a removable wood section of thin plywood.. did you have to do > anything to beef it up? What about UV protection.. is it painted? Was > hoping to keep the natural wood finish somehow. > > No doubt I should have asked first and polished the aluminum later.. will > say it was far more work than I had anticipated. > > Thought about giving it a number of coats of the clear coat from the T-88 > folks, would toughen it up, but not sure it can handle UV. > > Seen Piets with wood landing gear, wood exterior sides, wood floors, etc. > but not wood finished center sections.. even though most of them were wood > there. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176824#176824 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
OK?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 16, 2008
Thanks for the info. I had thought of using the system 3 (T-88 people) clear coat, and possibly with some kind of glass or fabric on the backside(hidden part) of the wood to strengthen it, but still was concerned about UV. Will look in to what you used. Love your plane, looks great. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177328#177328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: <billmz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
I've finally begun construction of my Piet, starting out by building the tail section first. Just about done with the vertical fin, and will begin on the rudder in the next few days. My questions at the moment are: 1) are aircraft nails necessary for the assembly process, or can I skip the nails all together and just use an adequate number of clamps to hold things in place while the T-88 sets? 2) what specific brands and type of varnish is everybody using to seal and protect the wood, and how many coats of varnish are required? I'm not at the point where I'm ready to varnish anything yet, but I'd just like to know what's needed before I get to that stage. Billy McCaskill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about nails and varnish
Bill: Here is my 2 cents worth. > 1) are aircraft nails necessary for the assembly process, or can I skip the nails all together and just use an adequate number of clamps to hold things in place while the T-88 sets? Since the glue joint is the source of strength, not the nails, clamps work just fine. Make sure your joints are snug and clean (shop vac or air pressure). Also rough the mating surfaces a little with 60-80 grit so the T-88 has some "tooth" to grab on to. Don't clamp too tight or the joint will be glue starved. > 2) what specific brands and type of varnish is everybody using to seal and protect the wood, and how many coats of varnish are required? I am using Ace brand urathane spar varnish and have been told it will not lift if properly cured prior to covering. The first coat should be thinned 50 percent for good wood penetration. One more coat should do it for parts that will not see the light of day. Use at least two more coats for exposed surfaces. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
>From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Bill, I've heard that Ace Spar Varnish is the "one" that works will all coverings. The only finish I could find it in is Gloss. Wish I could find it in Satin. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish >From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Jack, Minwax sells a product called Helmsman Spar Urethane. It is available in Satin, Semi-gloss and Gloss finishes. I haven't used it on my Piet woodwork yet, as I am not at that stage yet, but last summer I did build a couple of deck chairs (made of cyprus) that sit outside all year, and they were finished with it. We just lost our snow in the last couple of weeks, and I got a chance to see how they weathered the winter, and they look fine. If you need a flying example of a Piet finished with Helmsman Spar Urethane by Minwax, look no further than ...... Mike Cuy (at least that's what he says he used in his rather well known video). And I think NX48MC's been flying for about 10 years now, so I think it'll do the job. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Bill, I've heard that Ace Spar Varnish is the "one" that works will all coverings. The only finish I could find it in is Gloss. Wish I could find it in Satin. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Brian, the very best varnish available, IMHO, is PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish. It is absolutely bulletproof and will not be lifted by their finishing materials. It ain't cheap, though at about $24 a quart ($60 for a quart kit, which yields 2.5 quarts of mixed varnish). Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions about nails and varnish
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Think the T-88 people (system3) have a varnish called "clear coat" that is fairly inexpensive, compatible with T-88 and works with covering. There was quite a bit of discussion of it on the biplaneforum sight, and they have a construction manual with a chapter on their suggested stuff.. T-88/clear coat. Might be something to look at, its at many hobby stores. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177482#177482 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 17, 2008
Thanks. Any idea on how much would be needed to do a set of wings? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:30 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Brian, the very best varnish available, IMHO, is PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish. It is absolutely bulletproof and will not be lifted by their finishing materials. It ain't cheap, though at about $24 a quart ($60 for a quart kit, which yields 2.5 quarts of mixed varnish). Jack Phillips NX899JP ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo rums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.ma tronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Acklam, David PFC MIL USA" <david.acklam(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Subject: Hi All... Something you might be interested in - NOT spam
I managed to buy a Turner T-40S project... Which came with some rather large wing ribs... Upon further examination, I find out these are Aircamper ribs - useless to me (the T-40 uses a totally different & much smaller wing profile)... But potentially very useful to one of you... So rather than using them for firewood (what a waste) I'm putting them up for sale... These are 29 complete & 100% intact ribs, and 1 rib that has a small area of damage... They would be shipped with 2 pieces of wood placed through the 'spar' position IAT stabilize & protect them... So if you want to save time & work, e-mail me... I can provide you with pictures if you so desire... Make me an offer... Note, these are 30 ribs & the complete package measures about 3ftx5ftx6in, 'eyeball measurements' (eg I didn't take a ruler to it)... So shipping will probably be slightly expensive... david.acklam(at)us.army.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Questions about nails and varnish
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
It's been a while since I did my wings but as I recall, a quart kit was enough to give the wings 2 or 3 coats. Thin the first coat 50/50 with reducer to get good penetration into the wood. Jack NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 5:48 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Thanks. Any idea on how much would be needed to do a set of wings? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:30 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish Brian, the very best varnish available, IMHO, is PolyFiber's Epoxy Varnish. It is absolutely bulletproof and will not be lifted by their finishing materials. It ain't cheap, though at about $24 a quart ($60 for a quart kit, which yields 2.5 quarts of mixed varnish). Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish What is a good varnish to use if you are going to be covering very soon after? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:17 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions about nails and varnish From what I have read, Spar Varnish is a very good, economical alternative to the higher priced epoxy finishes. It is fully water resistant and contains UV protection (designed to protect exterior woodwork on boats). It does, however need to fully cure before you start applying covering adhesives and finishes, or the solvents in the adhesives etc. will attack the varnish. I believe the varnish should be allowed to cure for about a month before attempting any covering. Here's a little practical tip regarding Spar Varnish. If you use satin finish, it will brush (or spray) on with a wet look, but cure with a matte finish (not glossy). When you go to do the next coat, it will be much easier to determine where you have applied the second coat, and where you have missed. But if you use the high gloss stuff, it's very difficult to tell what has gotten the second (or third) coat and what hasn't. If you prefer the look of a glossy finish, just use the high gloss finish for the final top coat. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: DAR in the Cincinatti area
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Hey, Anybody know a good DAR who would come to the Cincinatti/northern KY area? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: registration
Date: Apr 18, 2008
If I go ahead and register though unfinished, does anyone know if there is a deadline then by which time you must get your airworthiness cert? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: registration
Date: Apr 18, 2008
yea, before an FAA inspector will sign it off to fly!!! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration If I go ahead and register though unfinished, does anyone know if there is a deadline then by which time you must get your airworthiness cert? Douwe http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: DAR in the Cincinatti area
Date: Apr 18, 2008
Douwe, I am in Cincinnati right now overnight. Where you located?? Gene 202-674-1445 ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: DAR in the Cincinatti area Hey, Anybody know a good DAR who would come to the Cincinatti/northern KY area? Douwe
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: FTLovley <ftlovley(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: DAR in the Cincinatti area
RUN....Douwe....RUN FAST...!!! In a message dated 04/18/08 14:49:40 Central Daylight Time, generambo(at)msn.com writes: Douwe, I am in Cincinnati right now overnight. Where you located?? Gene 202-674-1445 ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: DAR in the Cincinatti area Hey, Anybody know a good DAR who would come to the Cincinatti/northern KY area? Douwe title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: DAR in the Cincinatti area
Date: Apr 18, 2008
yea, yea . . . 10,000 comedians out of work . . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: FTLovley<mailto:ftlovley(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: DAR in the Cincinatti area RUN....Douwe....RUN FAST...!!! In a message dated 04/18/08 14:49:40 Central Daylight Time, generambo(at)msn.com writes: Douwe, I am in Cincinnati right now overnight. Where you located?? Gene 202-674-1445 ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: DAR in the Cincinatti area Hey, Anybody know a good DAR who would come to the Cincinatti/northern KY area? Douwe title=
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" alt="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List matronics.com" alt="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution" alt="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get the MapQuest Toolbar<http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: registration
Date: Apr 18, 2008
There is no deadline. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration If I go ahead and register though unfinished, does anyone know if there is a deadline then by which time you must get your airworthiness cert? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 19, 2008
Subject: Re: Questions about nails and varnish
Instead of nails, I used ordinary staples out of my office stapler (swingline - like in the movie Office Space). The staples are only used to hold the piece lightly in position - not a ton of clamping pressure pushing out the epoxy. I think I saw this method in an EAA video about aircraft woodworking. Once the glue is dry, the staples come out. Tom B. _____________________________________________________________ Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijnC3paI0PpefAiLdBfu1DIqsVGL4IAdF4NrMFgstVcegASRg/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 19, 2008
Subject: spoked rims from model a ford
Maybe a stupid question but has anyone considered using model a ford spoked wheels? I have no idea what they weigh, which is probably the biggest concern with them. I'd think they be fine for side load since they were on the front end of a car going around corners. Like I said, the weight is probably an issue. _____________________________________________________________ Ultimate Travel Deals - Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmDRMJur3WTmMuGOeesowXShWWxgDBTy5qliwQ6nt87ANHKG/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Questions about nails and varnish
I have used a bostitch stapler with and without cardboard strips under them. I now have a "pin nailer" that shoots virtually undetectable 22 ga bits of wire. Since epoxied gussets and anything else just doesn't like to stay in place but slip and slide around, these tools are invaluable. Epoxy doesn't need clamp pressure. It does need complete wetting of the parts and no voids. I cover both pieces liberaly. Press the parts together until you squeeze some glue out then pin or staple in place. The pins are so tiny that an entire airplane's worth may add a couple of ounces. As per discussions on this list many years ago, I have been using Helmsman uerathane gloss spar varnish. The reason for such a high gloss varnish is that that is a major part of the UV protection. It acts as a mirror. I suspect that it's the "uerathane" part of the stuff that resists nasty chemicals so any of the high quality ( expensive) varnishes will do the job. Lastly, us gloss where the sun shines and satin where it don't. For cheap homegrown eurathane, just piss in the can. Hahahahahahaha! And remember, a little help goes a long ways; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4BYMvVvMg0&feature=related Clif > My questions at the moment are: > > 1) are aircraft nails necessary for the assembly process, or can I skip > the nails all together and just use an adequate number of clamps to hold > things in place while the T-88 sets? > > 2) what specific brands and type of varnish is everybody using to seal and > protect the wood, and how many coats of varnish are required? > > Billy McCaskill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: spoked rims from model a ford
Date: Apr 19, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: spoked rims from model a ford
Date: Apr 19, 2008
I have a model A and the wheels are REALLY heavy >From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: spoked rims from model a ford >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:11:02 GMT > > > >Maybe a stupid question but has anyone considered using model a ford spoked >wheels? I have no idea what they weigh, which is probably the biggest >concern with them. I'd think they be fine for side load since they were on >the front end of a car going around corners. > >Like I said, the weight is probably an issue. >_____________________________________________________________ >Ultimate Travel Deals - Click Now! >http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmDRMJur3WTmMuGOeesowXShWWxgDBTy5qliwQ6nt87ANHKG/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Yesterday was a good climbing day
Went up yesterday morning, and it climbed great. @55mpg climb, indicated 600/650 fpm. A-65/long fuselage. Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yesterday was a good climbing day
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Walt, What prop? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Yesterday was a good climbing day Went up yesterday morning, and it climbed great. @55mpg climb, indicated 600/650 fpm. A-65/long fuselage. Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/19/2008 11:31 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 20, 2008
I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't seem to locate my Piet plans right now. I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be to do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way around the tight nose radius. The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that I would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go from there to the trailing edge. The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is soaked. Comments? If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 20, 2008
Brian,on my pietenpol leading edge I did the bottom first and then the top. After the glue dried I then used filler to shape the leading edge. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > > I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center > section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the > leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for > 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't > seem > to locate my Piet plans right now. > > I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be > to > do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to > have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way > around the tight nose radius. > > The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and > wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that > I > would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to > the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler > pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge > that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go > from there to the trailing edge. > > The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the > ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is > soaked. > Comments? > > If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the > outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
I don't know what the plans look like for the GN!, but why are you (and others) putting the ply all the way around the leading edge? It is only called for on the top, from the leading edge back to the spar. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut<mailto:brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't seem to locate my Piet plans right now. I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be to do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way around the tight nose radius. The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that I would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go from there to the trailing edge. The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is soaked. Comments? If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com<http://www.engalt.com/> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Brian You can definetly bend the plywood after wetting. That is the way did it, although I didnt submerge the plywood. I covered the plwood with a wet towel and slowly bent it around the LE. I used cargo straps covered with saran wrap and kept pulling as the wood was ready to give. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > > I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center > section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the > leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for > 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't > seem > to locate my Piet plans right now. > > I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be > to > do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to > have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way > around the tight nose radius. > > The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and > wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that > I > would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to > the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler > pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge > that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go > from there to the trailing edge. > > The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the > ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is > soaked. > Comments? > > If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the > outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Thanks. It is birch with a poplar center three ply. Any preference as to weather the outside plies should be bent accross or along the grain? It is hard to tell which direction the sheet bends easiest because it is a full 4 X 8 sheet now and I don't want to cut it until I know the shape and size of the pieces I am cutting out. I don't have much of the sheet to waste. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge Brian You can definetly bend the plywood after wetting. That is the way did it, although I didnt submerge the plywood. I covered the plwood with a wet towel and slowly bent it around the LE. I used cargo straps covered with saran wrap and kept pulling as the wood was ready to give. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > > I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center > section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the > leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for > 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't > seem > to locate my Piet plans right now. > > I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be > to > do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to > have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way > around the tight nose radius. > > The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and > wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that > I > would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to > the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler > pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge > that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go > from there to the trailing edge. > > The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the > ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is > soaked. > Comments? > > If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the > outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
I used Okume plywood on mine. I have never tried bending birch and cant help you there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > > Thanks. It is birch with a poplar center three ply. Any preference as to > weather the outside plies should be bent accross or along the grain? It > is > hard to tell which direction the sheet bends easiest because it is a full > 4 > X 8 sheet now and I don't want to cut it until I know the shape and size > of > the pieces I am cutting out. I don't have much of the sheet to waste. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick > Navratil > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:42 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > > > > Brian > You can definetly bend the plywood after wetting. That is the way did > it, > although I didnt submerge the plywood. I covered the plwood with a wet > towel and slowly bent it around the LE. I used cargo straps covered with > saran wrap and kept pulling as the wood was ready to give. > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:28 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge > > >> >> >> I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center >> section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the >> leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend >> for >> 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't >> seem >> to locate my Piet plans right now. >> >> I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be >> to >> do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom >> to >> have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way >> around the tight nose radius. >> >> The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and >> wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think >> that >> I >> would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form >> to >> the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add >> filler >> pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge >> that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go >> from there to the trailing edge. >> >> The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if >> the >> ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is >> soaked. >> Comments? >> >> If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the >> outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? >> >> Brian Kraut >> Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >> www.engalt.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
I used 1/16 birch with no problem. Apply with the outside grain parallel with the wingspan. I made a little recessed edge with my router all along the leading edge. Glued w/T-88 all along the L.E. and stayed with it nailing it down little by little into a bed of T-88. No problem to do it dry with no water or steaming. Came out beautiful. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (
http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plywood leading edge
Brian, When I bent the leading edge pieces for my Jungster I layed a bunch of towels over the piece I was bending and dumped boiling water on them repedly to keep them hot and wet. As it softened I wraped it around a piece of 1.5 inch pipe and clamped it there. Let it sit a couple of dayes untill it is completly dry, then unclamp and check it out. I bent mine with the grain (parallel) . This I believe makes the wing stronger with respect to bending loads on the spars, when grain of ply runs root to tip. Shad --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
That's what I did as well. No plywood on the bottom, and on the top it just covered the ribs back to the spar and stopped with a slight overlap in the rabbet I cut in the leading edge. I used spruce nailing strips (per Tony Bingelis) and waxed paper to hold it down while the T-88 cured. No water required. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge I used 1/16 birch with no problem. Apply with the outside grain parallel with the wingspan. I made a little recessed edge with my router all along the leading edge. Glued w/T-88 all along the L.E. and stayed with it nailing it down little by little into a bed of T-88. No problem to do it dry with no water or steaming. Came out beautiful. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Plywood leading edge
Date: Apr 21, 2008
It was not very clear on the GN-1 plans, but I did just find something stating what you say. It is a little baffeling to me why you would use aluminum or ply on the outboard wing leading edges and not do it on the center section. You might not need the strength since the spars in that area ar so much more substantial and the loading on the center section is very low, but I still want the ply there to keep the correct shape where the covering goes over and resistance to objects hitting the leading edge and ripping the covering, not to mention the appearance looking the same on the center section vs. the outboard wings. One other concern for me is that the top center section will have no ply between the spars other than about three inches on each side and a screwed on aluminum cover for the fuel tank so a little extra strength from covering the leading and trailing edge will help. I am doing the plywood on the area aft of the spar to give it strength when people grab it getting in and out and bang their heads on it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 7:46 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge I don't know what the plans look like for the GN!, but why are you (and others) putting the ply all the way around the leading edge? It is only called for on the top, from the leading edge back to the spar. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood leading edge I am about ready to do the 1/16" plywood skin on my Sky Scout center section. I have the GN-1 airfoil which has a little bigger radius on the leading edge, but it still looks to me like a pretty small radius bend for 1/16" plywood. The GN-1 plans don't give a lot of details and I can't seem to locate my Piet plans right now. I am thinking two possible methods of doing this. The first one would be to do the spruce leading edge and form it for a 1/4" recess top and bottom to have separate plywood pieces that glue to it, but do not wrap all the way around the tight nose radius. The second method would be to form the leading edge to match the ribs and wrap a the plywood leading edge piece all the way around it. I think that I would need to soak the plywood and wrap it wet then let it dry and form to the shape to keep from breaking it. If I do this method I will add filler pieces on the top and bottom of the forward spar and make a leading edge that only covers halfway back on the spars then use separate pieces to go from there to the trailing edge. The second method seems to be the best plan, but I am not 100% sure if the ply will wrap around the leading edge without breaking even if it is soaked. Comments? If I recall correctly when plywood is used for the leading edge on the outboard wings it is something thinner than 1/16". Correct? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. http://www.matp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: love to post this pic
Taken a few years ago, by my photographer friend in the front seat. Landing on runway 24, over the lake Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: need advice on radios
I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's the new generation. Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit that will accept a radio input. Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug into that?. My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Walt, I have good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's the new generation. Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit that will accept a radio input. Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug into that?. My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Williams <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Walt, I use the David Clark H10-13.4 headset. A few years ago I bought a Vertex VXA 300 Pilot III handheld radio. I really liked it initially in my ground tests but... when I hooked it up to my headset I had a lot of trouble with it (weird whine noise). It worked fine with another one I had (D Clark - other model) but not very well with my new 13.4 headset. Also, when flying with it, static was busting through the squelch much of t he time. I could 90% solve that by changing a bunch of settings but it was n't very convenient. I called Vertex support and David Clark support and while they tried to be helpful, nothing got solved. If I had to do it over again I would buy an I com. Eric Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:55:05 -0400From: waltdak(at)verizon.netSubject: Piet enpol-List: need advice on radiosTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need i t. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's the ne w generation. Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit t hat will accept a radio input. Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug into that?. My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And hope fully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt EvansNX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 22, 2008
Walt, I also use the Icom A6 with good results. Have a look at HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0393_JPG.jpg"http://www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0393_JPG.jpg for some installation pictures. I have mounted the ground plan antenna behind the seat inside the fuse. Not an option for a completed airplane. I have since purchased a PA200 intercom (HYPERLINK "http://www.fly-bluesky.com/intercoms.htm"http://www.fly-bluesky.com/interco ms.htm) which works beautifully. I occasionally have to duck my head down behind the windscreen to get out of the wind noise when going very fast!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Tuesday, 22 April 2008 6:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's the new generation. Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit that will accept a radio input. Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug into that?. My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" Checked by AVG. 3:01 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Subject: harley rims
I've seen it mentioned on the list (primarily by Dick Navratril) that 21" harley rims can be used from late model harleys. I know it's recommended to use the 1" axle size, presumably because bearing replacements can be had for that and it's a larger axle to take the load. What I'm wondering is, if the 3/4 axle units could be used with a bronze bushing in place of a bearing. Also wondering if a 16" or 19" rim would work. There's lots of pairs of 16" rims available but the 21" 1 axle rims are harder to find. Tom B. _____________________________________________________________ Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNMGJJu1fhJzPsdISkq3EH8agYBfHZPUYZibdym37AOf8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: love to post this pic
What a picture Walt, it's what dreams are made of. Where was that at?? Ryan walt evans wrote: Taken a few years ago, by my photographer friend in the front seat. Landing on runway 24, over the lake Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model A engine Piet questions
From: "iowaboy" <miket(at)southslope.net>
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Hi all you Pietenpol Aircamper experts, I am considering building an Air Camper and powering it with a Model A Ford engine. I have a few questions. 1. I am 5 ft 9 in tall and weigh 235 lbs. Is the A enough power to take me and a passenger on a safe flight?? 2. How many hours does the Model A go before it needs overhauled again? 3. Because of my size do you have any suggestions about which fuselage to build? Thanks Mike in Iowa -------- Serve the Lord with gladness, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178319#178319 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: harley rims
Date: Apr 21, 2008
Tom, Are you planning to make up your own hubs? If yes, here are a few things Dale Johnson and I discovered............ 19" rims work well. 18" rims are very common. 36 spoke rims are much more common than 40 spoke rims. Steel rims and aluminum rims weigh about the same. Aquire the rims BEFORE you build the hubs so you can build the hubs to suit the rims instead of being locked into locating specific rims. One final comment, the Jenny style gear exponentially increases the "ramp appeal" of a Pietenpol. With wooden gear legs and wire spoked wheels, every camera is raised to take your picture as you taxi past a group of people at a fly-in. Jack Phillips, Mike Cuy, Dick Navratil, Peter Johnson and others all know what I'm talking about. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: harley rims > > > I've seen it mentioned on the list (primarily by Dick Navratril) that 21" > harley rims can be used from late model harleys. I know it's recommended > to use the 1" axle size, presumably because bearing replacements can be > had for that and it's a larger axle to take the load. What I'm wondering > is, if the 3/4 axle units could be used with a bronze bushing in place of > a bearing. Also wondering if a 16" or 19" rim would work. There's lots > of pairs of 16" rims available but the 21" 1 axle rims are harder to find. > > Tom B. > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNMGJJu1fhJzPsdISkq3EH8agYBfHZPUYZibdym37AOf8/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: love to post this pic
A few years ago, taken by a photographer friend of mine, who rode in the front, and snapped that glorious pic, one quiet morn comming in over the lake at Newton airport NJ. (jump airport) Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Michals To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: love to post this pic What a picture Walt, it's what dreams are made of. Where was that at?? Ryan walt evans wrote: Taken a few years ago, by my photographer friend in the front seat. Landing on runway 24, over the lake Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
From: nypnx211(at)charter.net
Date: Apr 22, 2008
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:58:21 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios Walt, I have good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's the new generation. Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit that will accept a radio input. Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug into that?. My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: harley rims
Does anyone have the "specs" on making your own hubs? Material list, drawings, etc.? Milt Atkinson -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: harley rims Tom, Are you planning to make up your own hubs? If yes, here are a few things Dale Johnson and I discovered............ 19" rims work well. 18" rims are very common. 36 spoke rims are much more common than 40 spoke rims. Steel rims and aluminum rims weigh about the same. Aquire the rims BEFORE you build the hubs so you can build the hubs to suit the rims instead of being locked into locating specific rims. One final comment, the Jenny style gear exponentially increases the "ramp appeal" of a Pietenpol. With wooden gear legs and wire spoked wheels, every camera is raised to take your picture as you taxi past a group of people at a fly-in. Jack Phillips, Mike Cuy, Dick Navratil, Peter Johnson and others all know what I'm talking about. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: harley rims > > > I've seen it mentioned on the list (primarily by Dick Navratril) that 21" > harley rims can be used from late model harleys. I know it's recommended > to use the 1" axle size, presumably because bearing replacements can be > had for that and it's a larger axle to take the load. What I'm wondering > is, if the 3/4 axle units could be used with a bronze bushing in place of > a bearing. Also wondering if a 16" or 19" rim would work. There's lots > of pairs of 16" rims available but the 21" 1 axle rims are harder to find. > > Tom B. > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find singles for dating, romance and fun. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1iNMGJJu1fhJzPsdISkq3 EH8agYBfHZPUYZibdym37AOf8/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2008
Subject: Re: harley rims
Milt, I have detailed hub drawings that I made a while back. These are good drawings I believe because they were made AFTER I made all my mistakes. I will dig those out and publish them here as soon as I can. I sent them to Santiago in Argentina too. Maybe if he gets to it first that would be OK :) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: harley rims
Date: Apr 22, 2008
Here's a link to the most often referred to design for Piet hubs: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=56 These hubs don't have provisions for brakes, but that's where the fun of the project comes into play - you get to figure it out for yourself! Of course, you're always free to devise your own hubs, as some have done. Or you can buy a set of hubs (or complete wheel package) from Airdrome Aeroplanes. Their products look pretty good, and reasonably priced. http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/HeavyDutyWheels.html Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: harley rims
Milt, Here you can find the hub and brakes drawings for wire wheels http://westcoastpiet.com/santiago_morete.htm I cowardly stole the drawings from Dan, that's why they are under my name : ) Here you can find more info http://westcoastpiet.com/wire_wheels.htm Of course, I have to say thanks to Chris Tracy Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Tarjeta de crdito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.Solicit tu nueva Tarjeta de crdito. De tu PC directo a tu casa. Visit www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: harley rims
Thanks everyone . this is the information I was looking for! . make your own or let someone else do it for you. Great list . I can't wait to get started! Milt Atkinson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
Hans, and Peter, Did you have good results with the "rubber duckie" antenna built into the radio? Thanks, Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > Walt, > > I have good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset > > Hans > > NX15KV > > -----Original Message----- > From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > > I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need > it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern > with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's > the new generation. > > Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit > that will accept a radio input. > > Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug > into that?. > > My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And > hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. > > > Thanks > > > Walt Evans > NX140DL > > > "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Walt, yes, I use the standard rubber duckie. Transmitting about 3 -5 mile radius Recieving 20+ miles Regards Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 3:27 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios Hans, and Peter, Did you have good results with the "rubber duckie" antenna built into the radio? Thanks, Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > Walt, > > I have good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset > > Hans > > NX15KV > > -----Original Message----- > From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > > I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need > it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern > with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's > the new generation. > > Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit > that will accept a radio input. > > Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug > into that?. > > My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And > hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. > > > Thanks > > > Walt Evans > NX140DL > > > "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
Thanks Hans, One more question. I now have two David Clark headsets thru an intercom box, and I want to add this radio. Not sure which accesories that I need to tie into what I have Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > Walt, > > yes, I use the standard rubber duckie. > Transmitting about 3 -5 mile radius > Recieving 20+ miles > > Regards > > Hans > NX15KV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 3:27 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > > Hans, and Peter, Did you have good results with the "rubber duckie" > antenna built into the radio? Thanks, Walt Evans NX140DL > "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original > Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> To: > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:58 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios >> good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset Hans >> NX15KV -----Original Message----- >> From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on >> radios I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I >> don't > need > it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the > pattern > with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. > Guess it's > the new generation. >> >> Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom > unit > that will accept a radio input. >> >> Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can > plug > into that?. >> >> My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And >> hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If >> you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 23, 2008
Walt, I have not tried the "rubber duckie". As mentioned I have a ground plane antenna mounted in the fuse behind the pilot's seat. The intercom I use had all the necessary plugs to mate with the Icom directly. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 6:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios Hans, and Peter, Did you have good results with the "rubber duckie" antenna built into the radio? Thanks, Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > Walt, > > I have good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset > > Hans > > NX15KV > > -----Original Message----- > From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > > I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I don't need > it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the pattern > with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. Guess it's > the new generation. > > Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom unit > that will accept a radio input. > > Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can plug > into that?. > > My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And > hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. > > > Thanks > > > Walt Evans > NX140DL > > > "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" > > > Checked by AVG. 4:23 PM Checked by AVG. 4:23 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 23, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: need advice on radios
Date: Apr 22, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Walt, I am sorry but I do not have a intercom. All I have is radio with standard headset adapter cable (Icom# OP 499) and home made PTT switch in the stick. Dug up the manual, but no instruction in there on Intercom connection Regards Hans NX15KV -----Original Message----- From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 4:24 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios Thanks Hans, One more question. I now have two David Clark headsets thru an intercom box, and I want to add this radio. Not sure which accesories that I need to tie into what I have Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > Walt, > > yes, I use the standard rubber duckie. > Transmitting about 3 -5 mile radius > Recieving 20+ miles > > Regards > > Hans > NX15KV > > > -----Original Message----- > From: walt evans <waltdak(at)verizon.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 3:27 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios > > > Hans, and Peter, Did you have good results with the "rubber duckie" > antenna built into the radio? Thanks, Walt Evans NX140DL > "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original > Message ----- From: <hvandervoo(at)aol.com> To: > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:58 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advice on radios have >> good success with a ICOM A 6 and David Clark headset Hans >> NX15KV -----Original Message----- >> From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advice on >> radios I've been putting off buying a radio forever. I know legally I >> don't > need > it. But more and more, I've been haveing confrontations in the > pattern > with people who don't see me, and assume everyone has a radio. > Guess it's > the new generation. >> >> Anyway,,,flying the piet with David Clark headsets, with an intercom > unit > that will accept a radio input. >> >> Any suggestions on a "hand held" that's SIMPLE to use, that I can > plug > into that?. >> >> My main need is to switch channels easily, for unicom radio talk. And >> hopefully can talk and hear in the wind. Thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "If >> you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Fw: Military Aviation Wit & Wisdom
Date: Apr 23, 2008
This was forwarded to me. I thought you all might like it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: John T. Payne Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:54 PM Subject: Military Aviation Wit & Wisdom WISDOM - FROM THE MILITARY MANUAL "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal "It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed." - U.S. Air Force Manual "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons." - General MacArthur "You, you, and you ... Panic. The rest of you, come with me." - U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt. "Tracers work both ways." - U.S. Army Ordnance "Five second fuses only last three seconds." - Infantry Journal "Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." "Never tell the Platoon Sergeant you have nothing to do." - Unknown Marine Recruit "If you see a bomb technician running, follow him." - USAF Ammo Troop "Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing." "You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3." - Paul F. Crickmore (test pilot) "The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire." "If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe." "When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash." "Even with ammunition, the USAF is just another expensive flying club." "What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If ATC screws up, ... The pilot dies." "Never trade luck for skill." The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" And "Oh S...! " "Friendly fire - never is" "Airspeed, altitude and brains. Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight." "Mankind has a perfect record in aviation; we never left one up there!" "Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your flight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it." "The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you." - Attributed to Ma x Stanley (Northrop test pilot) "There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime." - Sign over squadron ops desk at Davis-Monthan AFB, 1970 "If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to." "You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full power to taxi to the terminal." A test pilot climbs out of a experimental aircraft, having torn off the wings and tail in a crash landing. As the crash truck arrives, a rescuer sees the bloodied pilot and asks "What happened?". The pilot replied: "I don't know, I just got here myself!" - Attributed to Ray Crandell (Lockheed test pilot) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair update
Date: Apr 24, 2008
William Wynne has posted an update on the Flycorvair website, at http://www .flycorvair.com . Included is a report on Sun 'N' Fun as well as informati on on the fifth bearing setup, parts availability, and philosophy in genera l.Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at htt p://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aircraft Spruce UNSUBSCRIBE
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dear Jim, Perhaps you can assist me with a customer service issue I seem to be having Jim. After several (evidently unsuccessful) e-mails to your company requesting that you USUBSCRIBE me from your newsletter advertisements the e-mails continue to come and I can only assume that my requests have been totally ignored or dismissed for reasons that elude me. Again, please unsubscribe me from your newsletter data base. I find that simple annoyances such as this just reinforce my belief that customer service still continues to be a weak point for Aircraft Spruce. Best regards, Michael Cuy Ohio ________________________________ From: newsletter(at)aircraftspruce.com [mailto:newsletter(at)aircraftspruce.com] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:09 AM To: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Subject: Aircraft Spruce East Supersale ? ? ? ? Garmin Newly Overhauled Units <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/garminNOH.php> Portable GPSMAP 495 for $1,595 <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/gpsmap495.php> Refurbished Zoan XRX for only $999 <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/refubZoanXRX.php> EAST COAST SUPER SALE 2008 Once again, it is time for our annual Aircraft Spruce East Super Sale. There will be many vendors in attendance as well as prize giveaways, discounted products and free hotdogs and sodas! VENDORS ATTENDING ? Concorde ? EAA ? Sennheiser ? Thor ? PTI ? Gardner Aviation ? Aeroleds ? Kelly Aerospace ? Flightcom ? Unison ? H3R ? Tempest PRIZES AND GIVE-AWAYS ? Bose ? Concorde ? EAA ? JPI ? Sennheiser ? Thor ? Kelly Aerospace ? Challenger ? PTI ? Mitchell ? Marv Reese ? Tempest ? Polyfiber ? Flightcom ? Piper/Cessna Flyer ? Trade A Plane ? Inflight ? Telex ? Aeroleds ? Flitelite ? Scheyden ? Speedclean ?Gardner Aviation ? ? Visit our East Coast Super Sale webpage for the latest information by clicking here <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/eastcoastSupersale.php> . We're Now a Direct Distributor for Goodyear <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/goodyear.php> Plane Sights Aircraft Markers <http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/fbpages/FBplanesights.php> ? ? ? ? ? ? Aircraft Spruce WEST 225 Airport Circle Corona, CA 92880 Tel: 951-372-9555 Fax: 951-372-0555 Aircraft Spruce EAST 452 Dividend Drive Peachtree City, GA 30269 Tel: 770-487-2310 Fax: 770-487-2308 Aircraft Spruce CANADA 1760 Meyerside Dr., Unit 4 Mississauga, ON, L5T 1A3 Tel: 905-795-2278 Fax: 905-795-3143 ? ? ? ? ? To be removed from our mailing list, reply to this email and enter the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Thank you. Prices are subject to change without notice. ? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Corvair update
Are these people still in business? The phone number 386-478-0396 has been disconnected, there is no directory listing for them and they do not answer emails! Milt Atkinson From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair update William Wynne has posted an update on the Flycorvair website, at http://www.flycorvair.com . Included is a report on Sun 'N' Fun as well as information on the fifth bearing setup, parts availability, and philosophy in general. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair update
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2008
Try 904-426-7795. It came up in a google search as phone/fax. Remember, it's a fairly small business with a LOT of customers. Their communication has always been criticized but I've gotten through a few times. Just give it a few tries. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179013#179013 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair update
I get a recording "Your number can not be completed as dialed, please check the number and dial again." -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair update Try 904-426-7795. It came up in a google search as phone/fax. Remember, it's a fairly small business with a LOT of customers. Their communication has always been criticized but I've gotten through a few times. Just give it a few tries. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179013#179013 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair update
You probably don't have his manual yet. I looked at the cover of mine which lists 2 numbers. The first is the disconnected number and the other is apparently his cell phone (386) 451-3676. The message on his cell instructs you to call the business number (904) 529-0006 during business hours. Perhaps they changed area codes or he got a new line. No idea. Try these 2 numbers. Good luck On 4/24/08, Milt Atkinson wrote: > > miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> > > I get a recording "Your number can not be completed as dialed, please check > the number and dial again." > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn > Thomas > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:51 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair update > > > > Try 904-426-7795. It came up in a google search as phone/fax. > > Remember, it's a fairly small business with a LOT of customers. Their > communication has always been criticized but I've gotten through a few > times. Just give it a few tries. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179013#179013 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair update
Just a thought...try Zenith Aircraft Company in Mexico, Missouri. Last I had heard he was doing lots of Corviar for the Ch601 and 701 aircraft. I'll bet they have numbers for him. A side note: I am a fan of Corviar engines and believe they are a great alternative to the other engines available for experimental aircraft. Many prospective builders of this engine give up based on the very issues you are having: contacting William Wynn. My first attempt at purchasing parts from their company kept me waiting for over 6 months! Not to mention I paid in advance (as per the ordering instructions) only to find out after several phone calls the items I order were not even in production! Finally, I believe he has a very good product and has made the Corvair engine conversion simple and very dependable. However, if he is going to grow his company, create a business plan with an office, staff to answer the phone, advertize new products, etc.....you know the rest. How sad to hear about your time and frustration in just trying to find his number....I guess things have not changed since I gave up on him two years ago. Speak to others who have built this engine and get the necessary information from them as to parts, suppliers, and other items. William Wynn is not the only one who can build the Corvair into a very nice aircraft engine. Many other have found sources for their parts to be just as good. Sincerely, KM Heide (my .02 worth) Glenn Thomas wrote: You probably don't have his manual yet. I looked at the cover of mine which lists 2 numbers. The first is the disconnected number and the other is apparently his cell phone (386) 451-3676. The message on his cell instructs you to call the business number (904) 529-0006 during business hours. Perhaps they changed area codes or he got a new line. No idea. Try these 2 numbers. Good luck I get a recording "Your number can not be completed as dialed, please check the number and dial again." -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair update Try 904-426-7795. It came up in a google search as phone/fax. Remember, it's a fairly small business with a LOT of customers. Their communication has always been criticized but I've gotten through a few times. Just give it a few tries. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179013#179013 -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair update
Glenn, thanks . at least the second number goes to an answering machine of "FlyCorvair" . I'll try during business hours and see if I can get the information I'm looking for. Milt Atkinson From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair update You probably don't have his manual yet. I looked at the cover of mine which lists 2 numbers. The first is the disconnected number and the other is apparently his cell phone (386) 451-3676. The message on his cell instructs you to call the business number (904) 529-0006 during business hours. Perhaps they changed area codes or he got a new line. No idea. Try these 2 numbers. Good luck On 4/24/08, Milt Atkinson wrote: I get a recording "Your number can not be completed as dialed, please check the number and dial again." -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair update Try 904-426-7795. It came up in a google search as phone/fax. Remember, it's a fairly small business with a LOT of customers. Their communication has always been criticized but I've gotten through a few times. Just give it a few tries. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179013#179013 -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Corvair update
Date: Apr 25, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Is it worth it?
I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? Or Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? Milt Atkinson (Dallas TX area) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
> Or, Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? Milt: As William Wynne says in the manual, "If you can build an airplane, you can convert a Corvair engine." The real advantage to building your own is that you will know how to maintain it (and fix it if necessary) without having to pay someone else to do it. You will also know who to blame if you decide to do something cheap instead of doing it right. If you hire the job out, you'd better have a pretty good expectation of the builder's reputation and competence. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 25, 2008
Milt, Do you enjoy working with engines? Or learning new things? Or are you a die-hard doityerselfer? If "Yes" to any of those, FLYCORVAIR.COM is a perfect answer. WW tells you what additional resource material you will need, and how to complete the entire project. He expects that some people will prefer to buy some of what he has to offer, some will prefer to buy locally, some will prefer to make, with their own skills, anything possible. He offers whatever level of service you require. Just plan ahead and don't be in a big hurry. You will not find an individual more committed to Corvairs and aviation. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pientenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (8 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it? I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? Or Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? Milt Atkinson (Dallas TX area) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2008
The manual gives a lot of good information and the reasoning and research behind some of the products they offer. It does a good job of explaining the whole rebuild. It also lists out serial numbers identifying engines that are suitable for the rebuild process. Some are not. For instance I know my 2 engines have a serial number that begins with RH which according to WW is a suitable core for the rebuild. There are others. I think if you are serious about doing the Corvair, the 60 bucks for something this important is insignficant. Worth the money in my opinion. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179173#179173 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 25, 2008
Well, Milt, I guess it depends how you define "worth the money". If it saves you one hour of sub-contracted machine shop labour (and I have no doubt that it would do that), there's your $60. If it helps you to avoid buying an unsuitable core engine, there's your $60 a few times over. If it provides you with several hours of entertaining reading and dreaming, that could be your $60, too. Does the manual explain every step and every process in detail? No. The manual would need to be a few thousand pages to do all that. William Wynne has developed and written the manual to allow the average person to build an economical, reliable motor for their homebuilt aircraft. It is written in plain English that is easy to understand. I bought the manual, and have yet to begin ANY work on a motor (haven't even looked for a core yet), and I think it's "worth it". Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 25, 2008
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
In addition to what others have said, you may need a part that he has available. In order to purchase that part, I think he requires you to sign off a liability waiver. I believe the waiver is a page in the catalog. It may be available separately though. Honestly though, there's a wealth of info available here, and it definitely is one of the cheapest expenses you will have....I recommend buying it. Boyce **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Milt, Yes, the manual is help full and worth every penny. But, the Corvair conversion is not quick and easy. I would like to compare it to a plans build airplane like the Pietenpol. The Corvair conversion is a Plans / home build exercise that is not for everyone, here is no real Kit (A-Z) conversion package available I recommend you get the manual and make up your own mind. Don't just use anyone to rebuild / convert the Corvair either, It will be your life up there (not theirs) Regards Hans NX 15KV, corvair powered -----Original Message----- From: Milt Atkinson <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:54 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it? I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a reasonable price. Is the FlyCorvair conversion manual for about $60 worth the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? Or Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? Milt Atkinson (Dallas TX area) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Milt, All are giving you good advice, and their details are right, too, IMO, from what I have read. Don't start a Corvair rebuild without the WW manual. However, the core and the manual may just comprise your starting point for needed technique. The WW Corvair manual states outright that you will also need the GM technical manual on the Corvair engine, and gives the manual number. The GM technical manual is tryly step-by-step, and still is not quite as explicit as might be needed unless you are familiar with Corvair engines at the outset. WW also sells videos that show how to do each of several portions of the selection, rebuild, etc. If you are the sort that picks your teeth with a camshaft, you may not need some of this documentation, but it is all cheap relative to the cost of parts, doing it wrong the first time, or a bad rebuild, with your butt on the line in the air-- or worse, just barely ("sputtt") in the air. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Milt Atkinson <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> >Sent: Apr 25, 2008 1:54 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it? > >I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a >reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth >the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine >into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? > > > >Or > > > >Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary >quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? > > > >Milt Atkinson > >(Dallas TX area) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Subject: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 25, 2008
Another consideration is the manual gives you enough info to determine whether or nor you want to build one yourself or have it done. That by itself is worth the $60. Plus if you have it done you'll also know what it really takes to do it correctly. Cheap insurance either way. Bob Santa Fe, NM -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it? Milt, All are giving you good advice, and their details are right, too, IMO, from what I have read. Don't start a Corvair rebuild without the WW manual. However, the core and the manual may just comprise your starting point for needed technique. The WW Corvair manual states outright that you will also need the GM technical manual on the Corvair engine, and gives the manual number. The GM technical manual is tryly step-by-step, and still is not quite as explicit as might be needed unless you are familiar with Corvair engines at the outset. WW also sells videos that show how to do each of several portions of the selection, rebuild, etc. If you are the sort that picks your teeth with a camshaft, you may not need some of this documentation, but it is all cheap relative to the cost of parts, doing it wrong the first time, or a bad rebuild, with your butt on the line in the air-- or worse, just barely ("sputtt") in the air. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Milt Atkinson <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> >Sent: Apr 25, 2008 1:54 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it? > >I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a >reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth >the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine >into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? > > > >Or > > > >Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary >quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? > > > >Milt Atkinson > >(Dallas TX area) > > > Checked by AVG. 6:32 PM Checked by AVG. 6:32 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Williams <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 25, 2008
The manual is definitely worth it no matter what route you choose. Here: http://www.flywithgus.com/page2.htmlis a guy (Gus) who used to work with Wy nne and still does to some degree. Click on the "FlyCorvair Installs" butt on on his website for more info on engine help. There is another guy, Kevin, who used to be with WW and supposedly builds a real good Corvair. I'm sure Gus could work out the details if you don't w ant to tackle the job yourself. Eric Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:54:56 -0500From: miltatkinson(at)verizon.netSubject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it?To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a re asonable price. Is the =93FlyCorvair=94 conversion manual for about $60 wor th the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engi ne into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building? Or Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary quality to make it a viable\reliable engine? Milt Atkinson (Dallas TX area) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Flying Music
Hi all- Just trying to get in a flying state of mind. Sitting here in Northern Minnesota, it's nearly May, and we're expecting 11-15 inches of SNOW by tomorrow morning (third weekend out of the last 4 with more than a foot of snow) I dug out my Dad's Oscar Brand records about flying. I then remembered that a couple years ago I converted them to mp3's and uploaded the to my web server. So, if you have the desire to hear some fun, polite flying songs if you follow this link you'll go to a directory of the tunes and you can download and save the mp3s. And for those of you who fear I'm pirating music--if you find a legitimate source to buy these songs, let me know. You can sometimes find a collection with a couple of them, but not all.


April 04, 2008 - April 25, 2008

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gp