Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gr

May 19, 2008 - June 08, 2008



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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Step
I welded a passenger step onto the landing gear. Rick On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 7:57 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Peter:* > ** > *I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... > Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables?* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > > >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps > > ** > > *____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > * > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: May 19, 2008
Subject: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Sorry to hear that Shad, I had a similar experience when a wing panel that I thought I had fastened securely to the ceiling broke loose and fell onto the other wing panel belo w it. I had just finished shrinking the covering and had applied the tapes . Made for a bad, bad day.... She is flying now though! Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!! Hello Guys, hope your day went better than mine! I was out today working o n my wings for my Jungster 1, and after 5 hrs of prep and gluing I heard th e worst sound a homebuilder can hear..... CRUNCH, CRACK, SILENCE!, Then 15 min. of severe, prolonged cussing! I glued my false spars for the ailerons in to the ribs and had it clamped , and 10 min later bumped into the bench , the whole thing fell off the work bench crashed to the floor, and broke o ff 2 of the ribs, top and bottom caps, trailing edge and all. I can fix it but, for about 10 min I thought about throwing the damn wing pannel in the yard and running it over with the Allis Chalmers, and starting over. I go t one rib is fixed, now I have to scarf in some trailing edge stock, and pl ywood strip and try to keep it looking steright. One bad thing about wood is it can't be driled off and replaced like aluminum airplanes. However I am lucky it broke where it did (If you can call it lucky) because I can fix it relitivily eaisly, and cheaply. The hard part is going to be scarffing in the trailing edge pieces and make it look profesional. LESSON: MAKE SU RE THAT WHILE BUILDING YOU KEEP THE STRUCTURE WELL AWAY FROM THE EDGES OF T HE WORK BENCH, AND IT CAN NOT TOPPLE OVER, OR OFF THE BENCH, ESPECIALLY WHE N IT IS TOP HEAVY BECAUSE OF "C"CLAMPS, OR OTHER HEVY TOOLS. I will try not to add too much more "charactor" to my airplane untill I am ready for fabr ic and paint. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE!!!!! Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Step
Rick: I guess I wasn't being clear. It appears that your step located underneath the pilot's seat would interfere with the rudder cables as they head back behind the seat. Tom Stinemetze >I welded a passenger step onto the landing gear. >Rick Rick: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 19, 2008
Subject: Step
Hi Guys, Here is how I did my pilot step. I wanted to have it totally recessed, but I had too much going on inside, so I had it stick out some too. Pictures attached. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Step
Dan: That looks like a good compromise - light yet functional and shouldn't interfere with the rudder cables. Tom Stinemetze > Here is how I did my pilot step. I wanted to have it totally recessed, but I had too much going on inside, so I had it stick out some too. Pictures attached. > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Step
No problemo, the rudder cable go over it. Rick On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:43 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *Rick:* > ** > *I guess I wasn't being clear. It appears that your step located > underneath the pilot's seat would interfere with the rudder cables as they > head back behind the seat.* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > > > >I welded a passenger step onto the landing gear. > > >Rick > > > *Rick:* >> ** >> *I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... >> Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables?* >> ** >> *Tom Stinemetze* >> >> > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Step
Date: May 20, 2008
Tom, Take a look at HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg"http://www.cpc-world.com/i mages/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 9:31 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Aerial plans - was Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch
plywood?
Date: May 20, 2008
Jim, It sounds as though the construction of the Aerial wing rib is different from the Pietenpol rib. Surely the plans must indicate the extent of the leading edge wrap. There aren't many of us out here that have even seen Chad Wille's plans, so it would be a challenge to offer advice on this matter. Many people comment that the original Pietenpol plans seem to be missing a lot of information, but when you look very closely, you find that very little is actually missing (Granted, a few more details would be nice). Take a closer look at the plans, and see if the missing info suddenly appears. If you could scan (or photograph) the part of the drawings in question, and post them here on the list, maybe someone could advise the best route. Or maybe you need to have your EAA technical counsellor look over your plans and see if the info really isn't there. On second thought, maybe that's your best plan. Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 6:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood? I wouldn't make a big deal of it except I am trying to walk thru how to do the leading edge. This is for a lower wing.. so its different. You can see the plane at www.westcoastpiet.com under photos, under Jim D. The lower wing ribs are squared off. The Pietenpol Aerial plans (Chad Wille's design) shows a shaped piece of wood that is bolted to each of the ribs to form a backing for the wing wrap, and the plans say to use wood for it instead of aluminum.. but that is it, nothing explicit about how far to wrap it. I presumed that with the weight of the wrap being so low, it would be best to make a "D" section out of it, which would make getting to the back side of it once it was glued in place about impossible. With the shaped leading edge support piece in place, even if I didn't wrap it all the way back to the spar it would still be tight to try to seal it, I would think. This is my first plane.. bound to ask some dumb questions. Seemed like having the spar top and bottom to glue to would make it easier to install the wrap, and would make it easy to finish, just run a flush router bit along the spar. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Step
Date: May 20, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Shad, Sorry to hear about the miss hap! I can imagine your feelings. Glad you did not run over with the AC! That would be bad! Take some time and fix it right. You will have a fine machine when you get done, Pastor Mike in Iowa shad bell wrote: > Hello Guys, hope your day went better than mine! I was out today > working on my wings for my Jungster 1, and after 5 hrs of prep and > gluing I heard the worst sound a homebuilder can hear..... CRUNCH, > CRACK, SILENCE!, Then 15 min. of severe, prolonged cussing! I glued > my false spars for the ailerons in to the ribs and had it clamped , > and 10 min later bumped into the bench, the whole thing fell off the > work bench crashed to the floor, and broke off 2 of the ribs, top and > bottom caps, trailing edge and all. I can fix it but, for about 10 > min I thought about throwing the damn wing pannel in the yard and > running it over with the Allis Chalmers, and starting over. I got one > rib is fixed, now I have to scarf in some trailing edge stock, and > plywood strip and try to keep it looking steright. One bad thing > about wood is it can't be driled off and replaced like aluminum > airplanes. However I am lucky it broke where it did (If you can call > it lucky) because I can fix it relitivily eaisly, and cheaply. The > hard part is going to be scarffing in the trailing edge pieces and > make it look profesional. LESSON: MAKE SURE THAT WHILE BUILDING YOU > KEEP THE STRUCTURE WELL AWAY FROM THE EDGES OF THE WORK BENCH, AND IT > CAN NOT TOPPLE OVER, OR OFF THE BENCH, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS TOP HEAVY > BECAUSE OF "C"CLAMPS, OR OTHER HEVY TOOLS. I will try not to add too > much more "charactor" to my airplane untill I am ready for fabric and > paint. > > LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE!!!!! > Shad > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 20, 2008
Subject: Re: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Shad, After I attached my wing for the first time, I decided that my landing gear bungee cords needed tightening. This is almost impossible for one man to do alone, but I tried. I jacked up the aircraft and had it sitting on some blocks of wood. I struggled with the bungee and tipped it off the blocks. One of the wingtips dropped to within inches of the hangar floor before the gear caught on one of the lower (toppled) blocks. My heart went into overdrive as I desperately got a jack under it again. This is a case of being stupidly in a hurry. Won't make that mistake again! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Step
Date: May 21, 2008
Harvey, There are indeed two pulleys in that location, one for the rudder cable; the other for the tail wheel cable. Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg"http://www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg for a better view. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg"http://www.cpc-world.com/i mages/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 5:04 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 20, 2008
Subject: Re: Step
Why does it look like an altar? Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Date: Monday, May 19, 2008 13:24 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Step > Hi Guys, > > Here is how I did my pilot step. I wanted to have it totally > recessed, but I > had too much going on inside, so I had it stick out some too. > Pictures > attached. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists > on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Step
Date: May 21, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Is that bracket still there ?Otherwise that's excellent. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 20, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, There are indeed two pulleys in that location, one for the rudder cable; the other for the tail wheel cable. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg for a better view. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 19/05/2008 5:04 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Date: May 21, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Dan do you have "Disaster Preventers" on your bungees? These are short loops of cable that prevent the axle from going up far enough to allow a wing to hit the ground if a bungee lets go. Look at my Piet or Mike Cuy's at Brodhead in a few weeks and you can see what I'm talking about. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!! Shad, After I attached my wing for the first time, I decided that my landing gear bungee cords needed tightening. This is almost impossible for one man to do alone, but I tried. I jacked up the aircraft and had it sitting on some blocks of wood. I struggled with the bungee and tipped it off the blocks. One of the wingtips dropped to within inches of the hangar floor before the gear caught on one of the lower (toppled) blocks. My heart went into overdrive as I desperately got a jack under it again. This is a case of being stupidly in a hurry. Won't make that mistake again! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas e notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Step
Date: May 21, 2008
Harvey, Which bracket? Peter _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 9:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Is that bracket still there ?Otherwise that=92s excellent. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 20, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, There are indeed two pulleys in that location, one for the rudder cable; the other for the tail wheel cable. Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg for a better view. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg"http://www.cpc-world.co m/i mages/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 19/05/2008 5:04 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 20/05/2008 4:45 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Step
Date: May 21, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
The one that was in the original picture with the green line going through it. I'm guessing that was just there for building purposes. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 21, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, Which bracket? Peter ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 9:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Is that bracket still there ?Otherwise that's excellent. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 20, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, There are indeed two pulleys in that location, one for the rudder cable; the other for the tail wheel cable. Check out http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg for a better view. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 19/05/2008 5:04 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 20/05/2008 4:45 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: straight axle bungee failure safety cable, installed
Date: May 21, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
After thinking I could get away with using a lesser-quality bungee cord (I use 6 feet each side of 1/2" diameter bungee cord) those loops of safety cable saved my underbelly landing at home base when one of those cheap bungees frayed and loosened almost completely. Safety cables: don't leave home without them. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: straight axle bungee failure safety cable, installed
Hey Mike, On your tube/sleeve bungee landing gear set-up.............have your tubes ever come close to bottoming out when the bungees were working normally, and how is this set-up holding up over time with (your) landings? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Step
Date: May 21, 2008
Harvey, That was a bit of bent welding wire used to find the best position of the pulley!! Cheers Peter _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 10:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step The one that was in the original picture with the green line going through it. I=92m guessing that was just there for building purposes. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 21, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, Which bracket? Peter _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 9:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Is that bracket still there ?Otherwise that=92s excellent. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 20, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Harvey, There are indeed two pulleys in that location, one for the rudder cable; the other for the tail wheel cable. Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg for a better view. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2008 12:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step There should be a pulley there in place of that bracket or wire or what ever you want to call that thing that is diverting the cable, with the cable going under the pulley to divert it down and out of the way. With a pulley there will be no friction to eventually break the cable. Just my take on it. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: May 19, 2008 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Tom, Take a look at HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg"http://www.cpc-world.co m/i mages/IMG_0464_JPG.jpg. You can see the rudder cable (green test wire) goes underneath the step. Cheers Peter. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:57 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Step Peter: I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ... Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables? Tom Stinemetze >Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM Checked by AVG. 18/05/2008 9:31 AM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 19/05/2008 5:04 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 20/05/2008 4:45 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 20/05/2008 4:45 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: About that idea for a low-wing Piet
Seems to me the way the creator would have done it, if he hadn't stuck to parasols, is to use Flybaby-style gear and flying wires. Any thoughts? Especially about how the drag and glide would compare with the strut-braced low wing someone posted? Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Model A engine
*Hi Group, Some of you have the old Ford Model A engine. I was wondering about how much money(just for the engine and prop hub) it takes to get one in the air? Where do you get your prop hubs? Thanks Mike in Iowa * > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Disaster preventers
Jack, My intention always was to install those safety cables, but I had not gotten around to putting them on, but you can bet your booties that I immediately put them on after that! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Model A engine
Mike, I found my Ford A engine on Ebay for $100.00. A very fortunate find because it turned out to be a very good one. You have to be careful because I bought a block before that, that was cracked. I then took it to Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie IL. to be rebuilt. I was very pleased with the result from them. The bill was about $2600.00 as I remember. Then I had to buy a aluminum head. I bought mag drives and prop hub from Ken Perkins in Kansas. Contact me off-list if you need more details. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
"Look at my Piet or Mike Cuys at Brodhead in a few weeks and you can see what Im talking about. Jack Phillips NX899JP" Speaking of Brodhead, what are the dates this year? Regards, Chrissi CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Date: May 21, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Date: May 20, 2008
Hey Chrissi, July 23, 24, and 25. See you there. Skip > [Original Message] > From: <CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 5/21/2008 12:24:37 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!! > > > "Look at my Piet or Mike Cuys at Brodhead in a few weeks and you can see > what Im talking about. > Jack Phillips NX899JP" > > Speaking of Brodhead, what are the dates this year? > Regards, Chrissi > > CG Products > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: About that idea for a low-wing Piet
Date: May 21, 2008
I would think that using Flybaby-style gear and flying wires would go very well ... along with Flybaby-style wings, fuselage, empennage, plans... (Sorry, but I can't resist making these assinine comments.) On a more serious note, anyone thinking about building (and, more importantly, flying) such a "Pietenpol Inspired" aircraft had better know what they are doing. There's a "whole bunch of aeronautics" going on when a plane takes flight (that's a technical term). I am an engineer by training, BUT not an aeronautical engineer, and I don't profess to have any real knowledge of that science - so I'm building to the plans, because I know they work. While the IDEA of different variations of "Pietenpol Inspired" planes is interesting, I wouldn't even think about building and getting in one that I had designed myself, number one, because I don't know how to do it, and number two, because you are no longer dealing with a proven design. Instead, you are designing a new craft, with ideas borrowed from an existing design. Now, if everyone was like me, we would never have any new aircraft designs. So, hats off to all those that explore new territories. Just know your limits, and be safe. Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: About that idea for a low-wing Piet Seems to me the way the creator would have done it, if he hadn't stuck to parasols, is to use Flybaby-style gear and flying wires. Any thoughts? Especially about how the drag and glide would compare with the strut-braced low wing someone posted? Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Brodhead & Osh
Thanks Skip! That's great, we can get to Osh and stake out a campsite, backtrack to Brodhead and back to Osh. We're looking for volunteering opportunities this year at Osh if anybody kn ows of any? Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details In a message dated 5/21/2008 12:07:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, skipgadd(at)earthlink.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Skip Gadd" Hey Chrissi, July 23, 24, and 25. See you there. Skip > [Original Message] > From: <CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 5/21/2008 12:24:37 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!! > > > "Look at my Piet or Mike Cuys at Brodhead in a few weeks and you can see > what Im talking about. > Jack Phillips NX899JP" > > Speaking of Brodhead, what are the dates this year? > Regards, Chrissi > > CG Products > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bob(at)cozyworld.net
Subject: Brodhead & Osh
Date: May 21, 2008
Wow - the Cozy girrrls at Broadhead? Maybe making Piet parts??? I've stalled on my Cozy due to rising cost of living and lowering of the wallet. I've been thinking about a Piet since it's relatively affordable (in a dazed sort of way). I can't make either Briadhead or Osh but it's great to have such a dynamic duo into the Piet world! I have the Piet plans as well as the plans to a Gerard GN1 that someone actually sent me. They decided not to use them and just mailed them. Good luck! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM Thanks Skip! That's great, we can get to Osh and stake out a campsite, backtrack to Brodhead and back to Osh. We're looking for volunteering opportunities this year at Osh if anybody kn ows of any? Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details In a message dated 5/21/2008 12:07:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, skipgadd(at)earthlink.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Skip Gadd" Hey Chrissi, July 23, 24, and 25. See you there. Skip > [Original Message] > From: <CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 5/21/2008 12:24:37 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!! > > > "Look at my Piet or Mike Cuys at Brodhead in a few weeks and you can see > what Im talking about. > Jack Phillips NX899JP" > > Speaking of Brodhead, what are the dates this year? > Regards, Chrissi > > CG Products > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead & Osh
EEEEP... we have been discovered =) Yes Bob, we are very interested in the Piet. Its what I really wanted to build in the first place; a low and slow subsonic bugsmasher but when we were looking for a plane to build in the Kitplanes plans issue and "C" came before "P" so we bought Cozy Mk-IV plans (hows that for all the wrong reasons?) =) Seeing Dick's article in Sport Aviation was just too much to pass up and meeting him while we were volunteering at SNF made it clear this would be our next project. We have all the plans and printed matter from Pietenpol and hope to pick up more knowledge while we finish the Cozy. CG Products make Piet metal parts? Lets just say we are seriously considering it once we get a feel for the demand. We have nearly all the canard metal parts in production so its time to look for something new. You probably are on the right track as far as switching to an economical project both in the building and flying. Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details =================================================== Wow - the Cozy girrrls at Broadhead? Maybe making Piet parts??? I've stalled on my Cozy due to rising cost of living and lowering of the wallet. I've been thinking about a Piet since it's relatively affordable (in a dazed sort of way). I can't make either Briadhead or Osh but it's great to have such a dynamic duo into the Piet world! I have the Piet plans as well as the plans to a Gerard GN1 that someone actually sent me. They decided not to use them and just mailed them. Good luck! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dog67(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead & Osh
If y'all start doing metal parts for Piets - keep me posted, I'd be interested Cheers Jon A **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 21, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead & Osh
In a message dated 5/21/2008 9:45:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Dog67(at)aol.com writes: If y'all start doing metal parts for Piets - keep me posted, I'd be interested Cheers Jon A ======================== Dear Jon, If we do we will make an announcement and it will also be on our parts web site as well. Aside from the plans we are too new to the group and type to know if the hardware is good as it is designed or are there improvements or tweaks that are considered improvements. What we did with the Cozy Mk-IV is first make sure we manufactured plans parts made to the plans first. There were several innovative and significantly improved ways of doing things but they are best offered as alternative or supplementary parts to the standard ones. Any discussion or feedback from the group would be welcome. Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: metal Piet parts
Date: May 22, 2008
Cozy girls- I guess you're the "famous" ones that got written up in Sport A viation last year. Congratulations! Be aware, however, that there are NO Pietenpols flying today with air conditioning (doesn't your Cozy have A/C?) As to the metal Piet parts, there have been several outfits come and go who tried to offer them via mail order or internet, but none of them survived that I know of, and some of them took money and ran. There is a demand for premade metal parts. I'm sure you will see many comments about very usefu l tweaks to the stock dimension parts, mostly having to do with extending t abs and brackets just a smidge to make it easier to get a bolt into a hole or to get wrenches/sockets on the head or nut. Nothing in the way of major structural improvements... the metal bits are plenty strong, especially co nsidering that they were designed and flown 75 years ago using mild steel a nd we have 4130 available now. If you haven't gotten Mike Cuy's or Chuck Gantzer's videos on building and flying their Piets, get them... both for enjoyment and education. In their thorough and entertaining videos both of these guys point out various plac es where they improved on the stock metal fittings and will give you a good feel for how it goes together. Welcome to the low and slow world!Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at htt p://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2008
Subject: Re: metal Piet parts
FYI my laser cut progress for metal parts: Previously I had posted the notion of laser cutting metal parts, now after the research and CAD drawings completed I came away with the following information: I had the metal parts reduced to CAD for the purposes of getting them laser cut the pricing difference between 4130 and mild steel is about twice. I don't know what others were charging for them so I have no gauge in determining if the pricing is good or not? With the cost of metal who knows, its almost as volatile as gasoline these days. I am considering the notion yet again for purposes of speed and accuracy. By comparison the 4130 price more than justified the time and tool purchase to do them myself. I had the job re quoted in mild steel and found the discount around 50% of the 4130. Now in mild steel I am not too certain that the time and equipment purchase is justifiably the best method especially with a 2 week delivery time for all the parts done and delivered. I have not explored other options with the laser guy in trying to get the price lowered if I order a greater in quantity. I will keep you all posted on both my decision to go laser and the outcome should I decide to bite the bullet spend the bucks and just get it done. I expect to be in Broad head this year and would love to discuss it with anyone interested ion the topic or experience. John Building my Piet one stick at a time NX895BP reserved In a message dated 5/22/2008 9:06:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: Cozy girls- I guess you're the "famous" ones that got written up in Sport Aviation last year. Congratulations! Be aware, however, that there are NO Pietenpols flying today with air conditioning (doesn't your Cozy have A/C?) As to the metal Piet parts, there have been several outfits come and go who tried to offer them via mail order or internet, but none of them survived that I know of, and some of them took money and ran. There is a demand for premade metal parts. I'm sure you will see many comments about very useful tweaks to the stock dimension parts, mostly having to do with extending tabs and brackets just a smidge to make it easier to get a bolt into a hole or to get wrenches/sockets on the head or nut. Nothing in the way of major structural improvements... the metal bits are plenty strong, especially considering that they were designed and flown 75 years ago using mild steel and we have 4130 available now. If you haven't gotten Mike Cuy's or Chuck Gantzer's videos on building and flying their Piets, get them... both for enjoyment and education. In their thorough and entertaining videos both of these guys point out various places where they improved on the stock metal fittings and will give you a good feel for how it goes together. Welcome to the low and slow world! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: metal Piet parts
Date: May 22, 2008
Wrong again Oscar! Don't know about the others, but mine has about all the "air conditioning" in the winter I can stand and in the summers the air conditioning kicks in the higher I fly. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal Piet parts Cozy girls- I guess you're the "famous" ones that got written up in Sport Aviation last year. Congratulations! Be aware, however, that there are NO Pietenpols flying today with air conditioning (doesn't your Cozy have A/C?) As to the metal Piet parts, there have been several outfits come and go who tried to offer them via mail order or internet, but none of them survived that I know of, and some of them took money and ran. There is a demand for premade metal parts. I'm sure you will see many comments about very useful tweaks to the stock dimension parts, mostly having to do with extending tabs and brackets just a smidge to make it easier to get a bolt into a hole or to get wrenches/sockets on the head or nut. Nothing in the way of major structural improvements... the metal bits are plenty strong, especially considering that they were designed and flown 75 years ago using mild steel and we have 4130 available now. If you haven't gotten Mike Cuy's or Chuck Gantzer's videos on building and flying their Piets, get them... both for enjoyment and education. In their thorough and entertaining videos both of these guys point out various places where they improved on the stock metal fittings and will give you a good feel for how it goes together. Welcome to the low and slow world! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/20/2008 6:45 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aerial plans - was Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch
plywoo
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2008
Used my head for once. Sent note to Chad Wille asking him what should be done, he answered; "The lower wings are built just like the uppers. The plywood is on the top side only, glued to fillers on the top of the spar and ends on top of the leading edge, about an inch or so on top of it, where you feather the 1/16 lip to blend with the leading edge shape. All wood joints on wood airplanes are always glued, regardless of the additional use of nails, bolts, staples, etc. You don't need to scarf your 1/16 ply joints, just butt them together on a rib or with a wood backing if they don't line up on a rib." Now I know. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184363#184363 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: About that idea for a low-wing Piet
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 22, 2008
Theres a european outfit that sells a low wing pietenpol-ish plane www.aerolab.it Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184366#184366 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: metal Piet parts
Date: May 22, 2008
The way I see it, the biggest problem with having metal parts laser-cut (or waterjet-cut or CNC punched or whatever method) is that in order to do it economically, you would have to have all of your metal parts cut at one time. Since the total amount of parts is so small (compared to the average commercial application) a big portion of the cost is going to be set-up time (programming, loading the sheet metal into the machine, unloading the machine, and paperwork), so it's best for you to only pay for this one time - hence the desire to cut all the parts at once. The problem with doing all the parts at once is that you are very likely to find out, when you go to assemble your parts, that the plane you have built does not EXACTLY match the plane shown in your plans. There will most likely be differences of 1/16" or 1/8" here and there. This doesn't mean your plane is wrong, it just means that YOU built it, with YOUR hands. However, it does mean that your metal parts might not fit the plane you built (especially if you made any modifications, as many seem to do). If you are the type that is extremely meticulous about details and very precise (think watchmaker), the metal will probably fit. If you're the typical builder, though, there will most likely be some parts that will not fit and need to be re-made (at least once). If you have access to one of these machines (through work or a friend) and can have parts cut in small batches without paying through the nose, it's a great time saver, especially as compared to a hacksaw and elbow grease (not to mention the accuracy and precision). Regarding mild steel vs 4130, in the Pietenpol, the biggest advantage that I see for 4130 is it's corrosion resistance, as compared to mild steel. As far as strength, yes it is much stronger than mild steel, buth the parts were designed for mild steel, so mild steel is strong enough. There IS the opportunity to reduce the thickness of the sheet metal, and thus save weight - BUT only if you know what you are doing. Most builders don't have a clue as to how these calculations would be done, and so should stick to the plans. If the only advantage of 4130 was the increased strength (which isn't really needed in this case), I wouldn't bother paying the extra money, and just go with mild steel. But the added corrosion resistance of 4130 is a distinct advantage that should not be overlooked. (my 2 cents) Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2008
Subject: Re: metal Piet parts
Dear Oscar, "Cozy girls- I guess you're the "famous" ones that got written up in Sport Aviation last year." ... famous, no, but it seems we got a bit of attention for awhile. "Congratulations! Be aware, however, that there are NO Pietenpols flying today with air conditioning (doesn't your Cozy have A/C?)" ... no A/C in the Cozy, lots of ventilation though when needed. Where it flys you need HEAT not A/C. The Cozy is a great cross country long distance voyager, we want something for flying around the patch, up and down the rivers we are surrounded with and across the farmlands, the Piet will be perfect. I have flown slower... I used to fly balloons =) "As to the metal Piet parts, there have been several outfits come and go who tried to offer them via mail order or internet, but none of them survived that I know of..." ... yes, we noticed. We went into this business full time several years ago to replace the Rutan specified supplier and several garage operations that had gone out of business. We agree with you that it would be a bad venture if the Piet hardware were our only business or even as a side business. We have extensive product design, development and prototyping experience prior to aircraft hardware plus much of the manufacturing tools ourselves so it helps keep cost down. Since we do a lot of it our laser and waterjet vendors keep the sheet materials we use in stock and we typically order several years worth of inventory at once since the price of materials and labor will only increase. This also ensures we are able to ship from stock. "and some of them took money and ran." ... yes, something we hear over and over in this industry. We paid 50% deposit for our retractable landing gear and waited nearly 3 years to get it. It is our policy to not take a dime from a customer until we have their order complete, in a box, weighed, price the shipping, email them the final total before we accept a cent from them. Now isn't that refreshing? " the metal bits are plenty strong, especially considering that they were designed and flown 75 years ago using mild steel and we have 4130 available now." ...even 4130 can be a liability, brittle if not handled properly. Laser cutting causes highly brittle, very hard edges, great place for cracks to begin. Holes have to be cut undersized then drilled but before this can be done the parts have to be annealed-"baked" to get them back to N condition, then holes can be drilled or reamed as needed (otherwise the holes will be so hard they will destroy your tools), then tumble deburred and finally cadmium plated, and baked once again immediately after plating to prevent hydrogen embrittlement. There's more to it than just getting some parts cut out. "Mike Cuy's or Chuck Gantzer's videos on building and flying their Piets, get them..." ... will do, Thanks! that should be helpful. "Welcome to the low and slow world!" ...Can't wait. Already stacking up the CAD drawings and toolpath files =) Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: metal Piet parts
Date: May 22, 2008
I have access to a low cost CNC turret punch. I also have a CNC router and milling machine. I have thought of making and selling parts, but have not had the time to draw them. If anyone has the parts in CAD I would love to have them. I would make the parts for a profit, but it would likely not be much of a profit and I would likely sit on a set or two of parts for a while before they sold so I would not be willing to pay for the drawings. So if someone already has the drawings and does not mind sharing them on those terms let me know. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:32 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: metal Piet parts The way I see it, the biggest problem with having metal parts laser-cut (or waterjet-cut or CNC punched or whatever method) is that in order to do it economically, you would have to have all of your metal parts cut at one time. Since the total amount of parts is so small (compared to the average commercial application) a big portion of the cost is going to be set-up time (programming, loading the sheet metal into the machine, unloading the machine, and paperwork), so it's best for you to only pay for this one time - hence the desire to cut all the parts at once. The problem with doing all the parts at once is that you are very likely to find out, when you go to assemble your parts, that the plane you have built does not EXACTLY match the plane shown in your plans. There will most likely be differences of 1/16" or 1/8" here and there. This doesn't mean your plane is wrong, it just means that YOU built it, with YOUR hands. However, it does mean that your metal parts might not fit the plane you built (especially if you made any modifications, as many seem to do). If you are the type that is extremely meticulous about details and very precise (think watchmaker), the metal will probably fit. If you're the typical builder, though, there will most likely be some parts that will not fit and need to be re-made (at least once). If you have access to one of these machines (through work or a friend) and can have parts cut in small batches without paying through the nose, it's a great time saver, especially as compared to a hacksaw and elbow grease (not to mention the accuracy and precision). Regarding mild steel vs 4130, in the Pietenpol, the biggest advantage that I see for 4130 is it's corrosion resistance, as compared to mild steel. As far as strength, yes it is much stronger than mild steel, buth the parts were designed for mild steel, so mild steel is strong enough. There IS the opportunity to reduce the thickness of the sheet metal, and thus save eight - BUT only if you know what you are doing. Most builders don't have a clue as to how these calculations would be done, and so should stick to the plans. If the only advantage of 4130 was the increased strength (which isn't really needed in this case), I wouldn't bother paying the extra money, and just go with mild steel. But the added corrosion resistance of 4130 is a distinct advantage that should not be overlooked. (my 2 cents) Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: metal Piet parts
I think you would have a tough time selling the parts if they were not 4130, whether they were strong enough or not. Just my opinion. Ryan M Bill Church wrote: The way I see it, the biggest problem with having metal parts laser-cut (or waterjet-cut or CNC punched or whatever method) is that in order to do it economically, you would have to have all of your metal parts cut at one time. Since the total amount of parts is so small (compared to the average commercial application) a big portion of the cost is going to be set-up time (programming, loading the sheet metal into the machine, unloading the machine, and paperwork), so it's best for you to only pay for this one time - hence the desire to cut all the parts at once. The problem with doing all the parts at once is that you are very likely to find out, when you go to assemble your parts, that the plane you have built does not EXACTLY match the plane shown in your plans. There will most likely be differences of 1/16" or 1/8" here and there. This doesn't mean your plane is wrong, it just means that YOU built it, with YOUR hands. However, it does mean that your metal parts might not fit the plane you built (especially if you made any modifications, as many seem to do). If you are the type that is extremely meticulous about details and very precise (think watchmaker), the metal will probably fit. If you're the typical builder, though, there will most likely be some parts that will not fit and need to be re-made (at least once). If you have access to one of these machines (through work or a friend) and can have parts cut in small batches without paying through the nose, it's a great time saver, especially as compared to a hacksaw and elbow grease (not to mention the accuracy and precision). Regarding mild steel vs 4130, in the Pietenpol, the biggest advantage that I see for 4130 is it's corrosion resistance, as compared to mild steel. As far as strength, yes it is much stronger than mild steel, buth the parts were designed for mild steel, so mild steel is strong enough. There IS the opportunity to reduce the thickness of the sheet metal, and thus save weight - BUT only if you know what you are doing. Most builders don't have a clue as to how these calculations would be done, and so should stick to the plans. If the only advantage of 4130 was the increased strength (which isn't really needed in this case), I wouldn't bother paying the extra money, and just go with mild steel. But the added corrosion resistance of 4130 is a distinct advantage that should not be overlooked. (my 2 cents) Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bob(at)cozyworld.net
Subject: metal Piet parts
Date: May 22, 2008
I will say that the Cozy Girrrls produce parts that are functional works of art.=C2- They have the knowledge (engineers), experience & integrity tha t will be an assest to this or any other group.=C2- I can't wait to see w hat they come up with.=C2- We're in for an incredible ride of awesome met al parts that will equal the finest built Piets on which they're a part of. I can tell you from the Cozy world the sources of parts were hit and miss, long waits,=C2- questionalbe quality and sometimes down right ugly.=C2- The Cozy Girrrls came along and filled a hugely needed gap of first provid ing the parts and then taking it to the art form that would inspire.=C2- The hard part will be to build the rest of the aircraft that matches up to the quality and inspiration of their parts. Bob Santa Fe, NM =C2- I think you would have a tough time selling the parts if they were not 4130 , whether they were strong enough or not. Just my opinion. =C2- Ryan M Bill Church wrote: =C2- The way I see it, the biggest problem with having metal parts laser-cut (or waterjet-cut or CNC punched or whatever method) is that=C2-in order to d o it economically, you would have to have all of your metal parts cut at on e time. Since the total amount of parts is so small=C2-(compared to the a verage commercial application) a big portion of the cost is going to be set -up time (programming, loading the sheet metal into the machine, unloading the machine, and paperwork), so it's best for you to only pay for this one time - hence the desire to cut all the parts at once. The problem with doin g all the parts at once is that you are very likely to find out, when you g o to assemble your parts, that the plane you have built does not EXACTLY ma tch the plane shown in your plans. There will most likely be differences of 1/16" or 1/8" here and there. This doesn't mean your plane is wrong, it ju st means that=C2-YOU built it, with=C2-YOUR hands. However,=C2-it doe s mean that your metal parts might not fit the plane you built (especially if you made any modifications, as many seem to do). If you are the type tha t is extremely meticulous about details and very precise (think watchmaker) , the metal will probably fit. If you're the typical builder, though,=C2- there will most likely be some parts that will not fit and need to be re-ma de (at least once). If you have access to one of these machines (through wo rk or a friend) and can have parts cut in small batches without paying thro ugh the nose, it's a great time saver, especially as compared to a hacksaw and elbow grease (not to mention the accuracy and precision). Regarding mild steel vs 4130, in the Pietenpol, the biggest advantage that I see for 4130 is it's corrosion resistance, as compared to mild steel. As far as strength, yes it is much stronger than mild steel, buth the parts we re designed for mild steel, so mild steel is strong enough.=C2-There IS t he opportunity to reduce the thickness of the sheet metal, and thus save we ight=C2- - BUT only if you know what you are doing. Most=C2-builders do n't have a clue as to how these calculations would be done, and so should s ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 22, 2008
Subject: Re: metal Piet parts
In a message dated 5/22/2008 11:15:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aircamperace(at)yahoo.com writes: I think you would have a tough time selling the parts if they were not 4130, whether they were strong enough or not. Just my opinion. Ryan M -------------------------------------------------- Dear Ryan, We could not agree with you more. There are other ways to be competitive other than skimping on quality when a better alternative is available. With respect to the overall cost of building the plane we would guess that the cost of the metal fittings is not a large percentage of the cost. Spending a little extra for quality and peace of mind is well worth it. Those on a tight budget can certainly build the parts themselves to plans and do a comparable job. We are awed at the planes we see on this groups web sites and it goes to show the high level of craftsmanship amongst you. Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2008
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Slick mags
Pieters: Does anyone have any experience where to buy new slicks for a cont. 75. What mags can be traded in? I have old Case and early slicks (big and heavy) Thanks for your help. Ken Conrad with my corn and beans in the cold ground. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2008
Subject: hinges
Plans sheet "Drawing NO.2" has "Note: cast aluminum hinges are now used as standard equipment" Where would these be available from? Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Slick mags
Date: May 23, 2008
Ken, About 10 years ago I bought some new Slick magnetos from Mattituck in NY and got a rebate for my old mags which were Case and Bendix types. I don't know whether they still accept old Case mags anymore, but I think they have a website that would provide the information you need. The new Slicks for the A65 included impulse couplings and gears; the new Slicks for my C85-12 had the impulse couplings, but did not have the gears. I had to remove and keep the gears from my old mags. All new Slicks came with shielded ignition leads. Today, I think, new spark plugs are also included in the kit package produced by Unison. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tailfeather hinge contact info
Date: May 23, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
CozyGirrrls, This gent offers the cast aluminum tailfeather hinges. Not sure if he has e-mail tho. Mike C. Vitalis J & Rita C Kapler 1033 Forest Hills Dr SW Rochester, MN 55902-2365 (507) 288-3322 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 23, 2008
Subject: Re: tailfeather hinge contact info
In a message dated 5/23/2008 4:05:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov writes: CozyGirrrls, This gent offers the cast aluminum tailfeather hinges. Not sure if he has e-mail tho. Mike C. ========================================== Thanks Mike, we will drop him a note then. Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Sky Scout project in Oklahoma
Hi, I lost the name. But would the fellow in Oklahoma who had the Sky Scout project for sale give me an email. Thanks Pastor Mike in Iowa miket(at)southslope.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tailfeather hinge contact info
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: May 24, 2008
Vi can be contacted via email at sqdancers(at)msn.com I should do us all a favor and post some pictures of his almost completed Aircamper. WOW! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184624#184624 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Slick mags
Date: May 24, 2008
I just got a replacement Slick Unison ignition kit for my A75 from Aircraft Spruce. They seemed to have the best price out there. Included were two Slick mags with impulse couplings, complete harness, and complete set of Autolite aircraft spark plugs. When the bill came there was a notice that core charge for the mags would be credited upon return and acceptance of my old mags (Bendix) from Unison. Shortly after sending in the cores, Aircraft Spruce credited my account with the core charge. A few weeks later, Unison sent me a check too... they offer a credit for upgrading your mags to Unison/Slicks. Not bad. I was going to try to fly over to Old Kingsbury Aerodrome today for their open house and fly-in, but my fuel shutoff valve is weeping from the seal and I'm having to drain the tank before I leave the hangar or fuel seeps out onto the floorboard. Parts are on order. Until then, I'm limited to local flights with just a few gallons in the tank so I won't have to do the drain-and-refill deal each time. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: step
Here is what I've decided to do with my step. It's simple to build and should stay out of the way of things. I'm not sure how it will work yet, but we'll see. I know it will be strong enough, I just hope it's in a good place to assist in getting in this thing. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=step1mykitplanes.jpg&PhotoID=3943 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Recent Flying
Date: May 25, 2008
Hi Guys, I have at last made my first out landing flight in the Pietenpol. I made a trip to another airport about an hour away from my home field. The Piet and Corvair performed very well although the weather was very cold (by Aussie standards, about 10C). It was a beautiful sunny day, the Piet flies hands off (short distances) with just a little nose up trim requiring a little more as the fuel in the top tank is burned off. The engine ran very well with the temps just about reaching the greens. Even my landings weren=92t too bad! Cruise speed was around 70kts at 2800 rpm with fuel consumption 18litres per hour (around 4 imp galls). One thing I am going to have to learn for the future is how to read a map in an open cockpit airplane. Just as well I knew were I was going because I couldn=92t get at my map. I had another flight a couple of days ago with one of my hangar mates doing some in-flight videoing. He is a pro photographer so the results look good. I=92ll post some to YouTube when I get a copy. I am hoping that all the days of high oil temps, bent wheels and ugly landings are getting behind me and I can start having some fun in the Piet. Role on the warm weather!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com Checked by AVG. 24/05/2008 8:56 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: step
Date: May 25, 2008
Michael wrote- > Here is what I've decided to do with my step. It's simple to build > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=step1mykitplanes.jpg&PhotoID=3943 That will never work... it's too streamlined to work on a Pietenpol ;o) Seriously, that is a very clever design and should work great! You'd better patent it before the CozyGirrrlz decide to sell it as a premade, prefinished metal accessory ;o) (Which wouldn't be a bad thing, like the front seat shoulder harness attach fitting and other metal bits). Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 25, 2008
Subject: metal parts
Was pointed out offlist to me by David (dpaule(at)frii.com): "Chrissi, It would be worth clarifying the post on the Pietenpol list. I'm concerned that people without your background might be led wrongly, and assume that annealed 4130 is the same as normalized." ...and he provided this helpful; clarification: "Here's a quote from MIL-HDBK-5 about it. MIL-HDBK-5 is the stress analysists's guide to aircraft metal properties (it's not a process manual for heat treatment): "Annealing generally softens the material, producing the lowest mechanical properties. The normalized condition is achieved by holding to a slightly higher temperature than annealing, but for a shorter period of time. The purpose of normalizing varies depending on the desired properties; it can be used to increase or decrease mechanical properties." I clearly misspoke at the time, David is correct, annealing is not the same as normalizing. Typically to bend 4130 it is suggested that in "N" condition you do not bend tighter than a radius of 3t (t=thickness) but if you anneal first you can go down to 1t radius. That's a significant difference on a 90* bend. An important aside here is how this is reflected in costs of 4130 steel parts which would have to be annealed for a sharp bend then normalized afterwards -VS- the cold roll steel that can be bent at 1t off the shelf. Thanks David for keeping me on the straight and narrow! Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: New $100 dollar breakfast location For Ohio Piets!!
I flew my ass off yesterday, and in the process found a new "Destination" for a meal. I flew up to Shenandoa Airpark (5 miles north of Mansfield) for a pankake breakfast (too late for the goodies) and was told by a fellow aviator to stop by Butler Ohio for lunch. I forget the official name of the airport (not on the charts) but it is right on the north edge of Butler Ohio, about 15 statute miles south of Mansfield Airport on about a 170 degree bearing from the airport, south of Plesant Hill Resivour 4 miles. Open to aviators, about 2700 ft long or longer, and smoooooth, east west, an old farm, and barn is there. Just walk to the paved bike path (old railroad bed) on the south side of the strip, south of the barn and walk about a quarter to a third mile to the resturant (east, or left as you walk out around the gate). Whiffle... something resturant, good food for lunch and a hell of a neat strip, down in a valley in the small rolling hills of north-eastern Ohio. Mike C. it would be about 55 Statute miles for you, about 60-70 miles from Barber Field for The Sky Gypsy, and any other Piets up there. If any of you guys want to meet up there for breakfast some saturday let me know, I'm game. It sure is neat to find new grass airports that you had no idea were even there, and aviator friendly. By the way there unicom is 122.8. Shad NX92GB 115hrs and counting ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Inspection holes (wing)
Date: May 26, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Finally getting my first wing finished. The plans show a =BC plywood plate with 4 =BD hole beneath the aileron pulley for inspection. For the other inspection holes what does everybody suggest? Should I use plywood plates or inspection rings cut into the fabric? Thanks! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: May 26, 2008
Subject: Re: Inspection holes (wing)
Dear Jack, Thanks for your very helpful web site, the pictures help to quickly answer a lot of questions. One thing that may become clearer to us when you get further toward covering your wings and tail feathers is the attachment of the control horns. The plans show an opening of approximately one inch in the horns as well as the available material for the attachment tabs and screw holes support geometry for fastening to a one inch thick beam, yet the spruce beam material indicated in the plans is 5/8" thick at that point, is it intended that the beam is filled in with a ply shim on each side before attaching the horns? Does anyone have pictures on their web site showing these installed? Also how is the covering material dealt with around these interruptions? And by the way, nice job on the metalwork Jack. Please excuse our ignorance, this old-fangled construction is new to us =) Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== In a message dated 5/26/2008 10:22:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com writes: Finally getting my first wing finished. The plans show a plywood plate with 4 hole beneath the aileron pulley for inspection. For the other inspection holes what does everybody suggest? Should I use plywood plates or inspection rings cut into the fabric? Thanks! Jack www.textors.com **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 26, 2008
I just installed a new fuel valve, gascolator screen and fuel hoses on my plane, and decided I needed to test the fuel flow rate when I was done. I have an 18.3 gallon nose tank, and I expected the flow rate to be far more than adequate. It appears to be adequate, but is not as high as I hoped, so I'd like to get the opinion of more experienced people to determine what I need to do, if anything. I have an A-75. The chart indicates a maximum full throttle demand of about 6.3 gallons per hour. Of course, my burn rates in cruise are higher than what they should be according to the same table, so I think the actual max rate is probably also higher. For that reason, I'd be happy with a rate of at least 9-10 GPH, just for a safety margin. It took about 38 minutes to drain 5 gallons of fuel, a flow rate of about 7.9GPH. I started with 5 gallons of fuel, then when it got to four gallons, I noticed the flow rate had decreased substantially. I added another 5 gallons, and this increased the flow rate and it appeared to remain near constant as it drained from 9 gallons to 5 gallons. Obviously what I am trying to simulate is a full throttle climb with minimum useable fuel. A few questions: 1. - What is the MINIMUM acceptable flow rate for an A-75? 2. - Does the carburetor/needle assembly affect the flow rate? I tested the rate by simply disconnecting the hose from the carb, and keeping the hose at the same height as the carb inlet. Would the needle lower the fuel rate? 3. - Is ~7GPH adequate for an A-75 in your opinion? Something to consider for builders...because my tank is so low relative to the carb, I don't get adequate fuel pressure when the fuel level is low. As a result, I have about 4 gallons of fuel that is unusable, not because it won't reach the sump, but because of pressure. So I am always carrying around 25lbs of fuel for no reason other than to make the fire bigger after a crash. Somewhere before I have seen a specification for a minimum height of the tank outlet above the carburetor. Mine does not meet that spec, hence the reason for a large amount of unuseable fuel. The bottom of my tank is about 2"-3" above the carb when sitting on the ground. Of course before I fly it, I intend to do an extended ground run at full throttle to verify that flow is adequate. Any thoughts or shared experience on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, Ok ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 26, 2008
Steve, the two questions I have is what size hose and do you have a vented cap? I have also seen problems with fuel valves not opening all the way even though the handle indicates it is full open. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > > I just installed a new fuel valve, gascolator screen and fuel hoses on my > plane, and decided I needed to test the fuel flow rate when I was done. I > have an 18.3 gallon nose tank, and I expected the flow rate to be far more > than adequate. It appears to be adequate, but is not as high as I hoped, > so I'd like to get the opinion of more experienced people to determine > what I need to do, if anything. > > I have an A-75. The chart indicates a maximum full throttle demand of > about 6.3 gallons per hour. Of course, my burn rates in cruise are higher > than what they should be according to the same table, so I think the > actual max rate is probably also higher. For that reason, I'd be happy > with a rate of at least 9-10 GPH, just for a safety margin. It took about > 38 minutes to drain 5 gallons of fuel, a flow rate of about 7.9GPH. I > started with 5 gallons of fuel, then when it got to four gallons, I > noticed the flow rate had decreased substantially. I added another 5 > gallons, and this increased the flow rate and it appeared to remain near > constant as it drained from 9 gallons to 5 gallons. Obviously what I am > trying to simulate is a full throttle climb with minimum useable fuel. > > A few questions: > > 1. - What is the MINIMUM acceptable flow rate for an A-75? > > 2. - Does the carburetor/needle assembly affect the flow rate? I tested > the rate by simply disconnecting the hose from the carb, and keeping the > hose at the same height as the carb inlet. Would the needle lower the > fuel rate? > > 3. - Is ~7GPH adequate for an A-75 in your opinion? > > Something to consider for builders...because my tank is so low relative to > the carb, I don't get adequate fuel pressure when the fuel level is low. > As a result, I have about 4 gallons of fuel that is unusable, not because > it won't reach the sump, but because of pressure. So I am always carrying > around 25lbs of fuel for no reason other than to make the fire bigger > after a crash. Somewhere before I have seen a specification for a minimum > height of the tank outlet above the carburetor. Mine does not meet that > spec, hence the reason for a large amount of unuseable fuel. The bottom > of my tank is about 2"-3" above the carb when sitting on the ground. > > Of course before I fly it, I intend to do an extended ground run at full > throttle to verify that flow is adequate. Any thoughts or shared > experience on the subject would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Steve Ruse > Norman, Ok > > > -- > Date: 5/22/2008 7:06 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Inspection holes (wing)
Date: May 26, 2008
Hey Jack I used the nylon inspection rings and am very happy with them. They are very easy to install. As far as installing around control horns, I pre ironed a piece of fabric up to 350 deg. I used the pinking sissors and installed 2 additional patches over the covering. That seems to have worked well. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection holes (wing) Finally getting my first wing finished. The plans show a =BC plywood plate with 4 =BD hole beneath the aileron pulley for inspection. For the other inspection holes what does everybody suggest? Should I use plywood plates or inspection rings cut into the fabric? Thanks! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 26, 2008
The fuel lines are 1/4" Aeroquip 666 (666-4), but the ID is only .188. There are two 16" lines, one from the tank to the gascolator and one from the gascolator to the carb. The ID of that hose is only .188, which initially caused me concern, but the company I ordered them from (www.aircrafthose.com) assured me that was fine for a gravity feed system, and that I should use it instead of a larger hose since those fittings were what were on my carb and gascolator. The valve does open all the way, I just installed it and checked it before installation. It is a new miniature 1/4" valve from Aircraft Spruce. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/minifv.php The cap is a cub-style cap with a cork float. It is only vented via the small opening around the 1/8" float rod and the tube it passes through. Removing the cap did not cause a noticeable different in the flow rate, so I don't believe it is a vacuum problem. Thanks for any input, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > > Steve, the two questions I have is what size hose and do you have a vented > cap? I have also seen problems with fuel valves not opening all the way > even though the handle indicates it is full open. > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:33 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > >> >> >> I just installed a new fuel valve, gascolator screen and fuel hoses on my >> plane, and decided I needed to test the fuel flow rate when I was done. >> I have an 18.3 gallon nose tank, and I expected the flow rate to be far >> more than adequate. It appears to be adequate, but is not as high as I >> hoped, so I'd like to get the opinion of more experienced people to >> determine what I need to do, if anything. >> >> I have an A-75. The chart indicates a maximum full throttle demand of >> about 6.3 gallons per hour. Of course, my burn rates in cruise are >> higher than what they should be according to the same table, so I think >> the actual max rate is probably also higher. For that reason, I'd be >> happy with a rate of at least 9-10 GPH, just for a safety margin. It >> took about 38 minutes to drain 5 gallons of fuel, a flow rate of about >> 7.9GPH. I started with 5 gallons of fuel, then when it got to four >> gallons, I noticed the flow rate had decreased substantially. I added >> another 5 gallons, and this increased the flow rate and it appeared to >> remain near constant as it drained from 9 gallons to 5 gallons. >> Obviously what I am trying to simulate is a full throttle climb with >> minimum useable fuel. >> >> A few questions: >> >> 1. - What is the MINIMUM acceptable flow rate for an A-75? >> >> 2. - Does the carburetor/needle assembly affect the flow rate? I tested >> the rate by simply disconnecting the hose from the carb, and keeping the >> hose at the same height as the carb inlet. Would the needle lower the >> fuel rate? >> >> 3. - Is ~7GPH adequate for an A-75 in your opinion? >> >> Something to consider for builders...because my tank is so low relative >> to the carb, I don't get adequate fuel pressure when the fuel level is >> low. As a result, I have about 4 gallons of fuel that is unusable, not >> because it won't reach the sump, but because of pressure. So I am always >> carrying around 25lbs of fuel for no reason other than to make the fire >> bigger after a crash. Somewhere before I have seen a specification for a >> minimum height of the tank outlet above the carburetor. Mine does not >> meet that spec, hence the reason for a large amount of unuseable fuel. >> The bottom of my tank is about 2"-3" above the carb when sitting on the >> ground. >> >> Of course before I fly it, I intend to do an extended ground run at full >> throttle to verify that flow is adequate. Any thoughts or shared >> experience on the subject would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve Ruse >> Norman, Ok >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Date: 5/22/2008 7:06 AM >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
Have you considered buying a piece of 3/8th hose and seeing what you get. It should be a whole lot more. I have just about the same tank (17 gal nose tank) with 3/8th hose. I don't recall the flow rate but it is much higher than yours. If you need, I can run another test, using my tank, in a few days when I have the time. As a side note, I doubt if the last 4 gal in your tank is unuseable, if it is above the carb while in flying attitude. You may not be able to fly at full throttle thru all 4 gals but it could get you to a safe place to land. I never fly with less than an hours worth left over, just for safety. One of the main reason for airplane crashes is running out of gas. Just my two cents worth Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
3/8" tubing from a center section fuel tank resulted in a flow rate of 19 gph on NX18235. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > > Have you considered buying a piece of 3/8th hose and seeing what you get. > It should be a whole lot more. I have just about the same tank (17 gal > nose tank) with 3/8th hose. I don't recall the flow rate but it is much > higher than yours. If you need, I can run another test, using my tank, in > a few days when I have the time. > As a side note, I doubt if the last 4 gal in your tank is unuseable, if it > is above the carb while in flying attitude. You may not be able to fly at > full throttle thru all 4 gals but it could get you to a safe place to > land. I never fly with less than an hours worth left over, just for > safety. One of the main reason for airplane crashes is running out of > gas. > Just my two cents worth > Gene > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: a Pietenpol Memorial Day
Date: May 27, 2008
OZ and Corky's "Arsenal of Democracy"- http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/ar senal.jpgIt was too windy and gusty to fly yesterday, but the flag did fine . Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Steve, 1/4" fuel line is to small you need at least 3/8", 1/4" should only be used for Vent line. Your fuel valve is OK, since the tread size is 1/4" Pipe treat, not the actual diameter. the ID of the valve is likely larger than 1/4" Your fuel flow at carburetor should be 3 to 4 times that of you fuel burn (fuel burn 6 GPH, flow 24 GPH) My system , 3/8" fuel line and Piper J3 nose tank, flows 6 gallons in 12 minutes (30 GPH) with the tail wheel in a ditch (stall configuration) regards Hans -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Mon, 26 May 2008 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates The fuel lines are 1/4" Aeroquip 666 (666-4), but the ID is only .188. There are two 16" lines, one from the tank to the gascolator and one from the gascolator to the carb. The ID of that hose is only .188, which initially caused me concern, but the company I ordered them from (www.aircrafthose.com) assured me that was fine for a gravity feed system, and that I should use it instead of a larger hose since those fittings were what were on my carb and gascolator. The valve does open all the way, I just installed it and checked it before installation. It is a new miniature 1/4" valve from Aircraft Spruce. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/minifv.php The cap is a cub-style cap with a cork float. It is only vented via the small opening around the 1/8" float rod and the tube it passes through. Removing the cap did not cause a noticeable different in the flow rate, so I don't believe it is a vacuum problem. Thanks for any input, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > Steve, the two questions I have is what size hose and do you have a vented > cap? I have also seen problems with fuel valves not opening all the way > even though the handle indicates it is full open. > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Ruse" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:33 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > >> >> I just installed a new fuel valve, gascolator screen and fuel hoses on my >> plane, and decided I needed to test the fuel flow rate when I was done. >> I have an 18.3 gallon nose tank, and I expected the flow rate to be far >> more than adequate. It appears to be adequate, but is not as high as I >> hoped, so I'd like to get the opinion of more experienced people to >> determine what I need to do, if anything. >> >> I have an A-75. The chart indicates a maximum full throttle demand of >> about 6.3 gallons per hour. Of course, my burn rates in cruise are >> higher than what they should be according to the same table, so I think >> the actual max rate is probably also higher. For that reason, I'd be >> happy with a rate of at least 9-10 GPH, just for a safety margin. It >> took about 38 minutes to drain 5 gallons of fuel, a flow rate of about >> 7.9GPH. I started with 5 gallons of fuel, then when it got to four >> gallons, I noticed the flow rate had decreased substantially. I added >> another 5 gallons, and this increased the flow rate and it appeared to >> remain near constant as it drained from 9 gallons to 5 gallons. >> Obviously what I am trying to simulate is a full throttle climb with >> minimum useable fuel. >> >> A few questions: >> >> 1. - What is the MINIMUM acceptable flow rate for an A-75? >> >> 2. - Does the carburetor/needle assembly affect the flow rate? I tested >> the rate by simply disconnecting the hose from the carb, and keeping the >> hose at the same height as the carb inlet. Would the needle lower the >> fuel rate? >> >> 3. - Is ~7GPH adequate for an A-75 in your opinion? >> >> Something to consider for builders...because my tank is so low relative >> to the carb, I don't get adequate fuel pressure when the fuel level is >> low. As a result, I have about 4 gallons of fuel that is unusable, not >> because it won't reach the sump, but because of pressure. So I am always >> carrying around 25lbs of fuel for no reason other than to make the fire >> bigger after a crash. Somewhere before I have seen a specification for a >> minimum height of the tank outlet above the carburetor. Mine does not >> meet that spec, hence the reason for a large amount of unuseable fuel. >> The bottom of my tank is about 2"-3" above the carb when sitting on the >> ground. >> >> Of course before I fly it, I intend to do an extended ground run at full >> throttle to verify that flow is adequate. Any thoughts or shared >> experience on the subject would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steve Ruse >> Norman, Ok >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Date: 5/22/2008 7:06 AM >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
To some of Steve's comments and questions- >I have an 18.3 gallon nose tank, and I expected the flow rate to be far more > than adequate The nose tank on 41CC is 16 U.S. gallons, more or less. Flow is adequate, but read on. > I have an A-75. The chart indicates a maximum full throttle demand of about > 6.3 gallons per hour. 41CC currently has an A65, which should consume 4 gallons/hr., but I'm preparing to install an A75 on it so this discussion is of interest to me. >Of course, my burn rates in cruise are higher than > what they should be according to the same table Burn rates for the A65 on my airplane seem to be pretty much spot-on with the 4 GPH figure. >I started with 5 gallons of fuel, then when it got to four gallons, I noticed the flow rate > had decreased substantially. I've noticed that with anything less than 6 gallons in my tank and with the tail down, flowrate is quite low and probably would only sustain idling or low power settings. In fact, it is not possible to get the final 4 or so gallons out of the system without raising the tail to level flying attitude because the fuel outlet and shutoff valve are lower than the carb float level, or at least the static head is insufficient to flow much fuel through the restrictions at that point. I have determined this both by repeatedly draining the tank on the ground, and by having had the engine quit due to fuel starvation in the flare to landing with the fuel indicator down to the "red" (the top inch of my float rod is painted red). Valuable lesson, but one that I don't care to learn again. > 1. - What is the MINIMUM acceptable flow rate for an A-75? I don't know but am interested to know what you find out. > 3. - Is ~7GPH adequate for an A-75 in your opinion? Since you're opening it up to opinions, I'd have to say "yes". I can't imagine 10HP jumping the fuel consumption from 4 to 7 gal./hr. >I have about 4 gallons of fuel that is unusable, not because it > won't reach the sump, but because of pressure. So I am always carrying > around 25lbs of fuel for no reason other than to make the fire bigger after > a crash. Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but you're in good company... I'd say quite a few of us have the identical setup and the only sure-fire way to make all of your fuel usable is to put it in the wing. I consider the final 4 gallons in my tank unusable except in level flight in emergency circumstances, and probably the final 6 gallons are only usable in the tail-low attitude, as you've found by testing and I've confirmed by... "testing" ;o) It's nice to know that I can use that fuel if I really, really have to... but the engine WILL quit the moment the tail comes down if I'm into that last 4 to 6 gallons. That still gives me 2 to 3 hrs.' flight time, which is still longer than I want to sit in the airplane in flight. When I had the tank out of the airplane during repairs, I carefully poured single gallons one by one into the tank to check the markings Corky had put on the float rod and was very puzzled at why he shorted himself the final few gallons' capacity. The float rod wouldn't move off the peg until there were a couple of gallons in the tank but I figured he was just being conservative. Nossir... he knew what he was doing and I should never have tested the limits of an old Cajun's smarts but I did, and maybe I'm a little smarter now, too. >Somewhere before I have seen a specification for a minimum height > of the tank outlet above the carburetor. Mine does not meet that spec, > hence the reason for a large amount of unuseable fuel. The bottom of my > tank is about 2"-3" above the carb when sitting on the ground. I'll bet that spec is in Tony Bingelis' books somewhere, as well as in Evans' Lightplane Designer book. I'll check tonight, but I'll bet the number will surprise you. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Thanks Greg, that is exactly the type of information I need. I'm sure your flow rate was much higher since it was a center section tank though. Still, I'd be happy with 10GPH. Gene, I still have the original 3/8" hoses that I replaced. My next task is to re-install those hoses and fittings and re-test the flow rate. I know they are adequate because they have been working for near 500 hours. I suspect the flow rate will be at least 50% higher, because all of the IDs are substantially larger. Looks like I threw $120 in Aeroquip hoses and fittings down the drain. Anybody need two never used 16" Aeroquip 666-4 hoses with crimped AN fittings for brake lines? Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting gcardinal : > > 3/8" tubing from a center section fuel tank resulted in a flow rate of > 19 gph on NX18235. > > Greg Cardinal > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:17 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates > > >> >> Have you considered buying a piece of 3/8th hose and seeing what >> you get. It should be a whole lot more. I have just about the same >> tank (17 gal nose tank) with 3/8th hose. I don't recall the flow >> rate but it is much higher than yours. If you need, I can run >> another test, using my tank, in a few days when I have the time. >> As a side note, I doubt if the last 4 gal in your tank is >> unuseable, if it is above the carb while in flying attitude. You >> may not be able to fly at full throttle thru all 4 gals but it >> could get you to a safe place to land. I never fly with less than >> an hours worth left over, just for safety. One of the main reason >> for airplane crashes is running out of gas. >> Just my two cents worth >> Gene >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
Fuel lines and fittings on 41CC are AN6 (3/8"). Oscar Zuniga NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New $100 dollar breakfast location For Ohio Piets!!
Date: May 27, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I'm getting hungry just reading your post Shad. Nice find. Nearer to Frankie P. and Don E. is Salem Air Park where Don reports (and others) of a great little new restaurant right on the field. Nice airport too with both E/W grass and pavement. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Inspection holes (wing)
Date: May 27, 2008
Chrissi & Randi wrote- > Thanks for your very helpful web site, the pictures help to quickly answer a > lot of questions. Yes, they do. And one of the most helpful sites is Chris Tracy's nice compendium of photos at http://www.westcoastpiet.com . True enough that you only get thumbnails and you have to open them individually to find what you want, but at least all the pix are in one place. For example, look at Don Emch's and Frank Pavliga's airplanes to see if there are finish details there that help you. >attachment of the control horns >is it intended that the beam is filled in with a ply shim on each side before >attaching the horns? Does anyone have > pictures on their web site showing these installed? I'm sure someone has pix of that. I believe that's how the rudder horn is done on 41CC, the only such horn I've had actual experience with when I made repairs to it. >Also how is the covering material dealt with around these interruptions? I wondered about that myself, since it would seem that the heat shrinking operation would pull the fabric away from the protruding metal fitting and create a gap. I did somewhat the same as has already been mentioned... preshrink a round or square pinked patch to go over the part where it sticks through, then it won't pull away. You end up just making a slit in the fabric anyway, so it fits fairly tightly around the metal part. Some finish work I've seen is just incredible in spots like that... take a look at where the lift strut fittings come through the wing underside fabric of John Dilatush's "Mountain Piet" (now Craig Bacon's airplane), at http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/John%20Dilatush's%20Subaru-Powered%20Pietenpol/P6210018.jpg . He's used a pinked round doubler where the fitting comes through, and I defy you to find any gap around that penetration! Also interesting to note that John installed the rings for inspection covers at the wing drag bracing attachment locations but elected not to cut them in at this time. My guess would be that he also painted a number of inspection hole covers when he painted the wings, so they would match the paint perfectly if the time came to use them. Perfectionist! > Please excuse our ignorance, this old-fangled construction is new to us =) Wait till you get to the part about the empty oatmeal cardboard containers ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: May 27, 2008
Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is outstanding for a Piet), Gene in Tennessee N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2008
From: FTLovley <ftlovley(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Tell us more about Jay Anderson Props...where are they made..??...etc In a message dated 05/27/08 18:00:15 Central Daylight Time, zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes: Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is outstanding for a Piet), Gene in Tennessee N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2008
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Gene , that's a great look, nice job1 BTW what engine are you running? John **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 27, 2008
Some info from Tony Bingelis' books: From "Sportplane Builder", he shows a gravity feed system that is almost a precise schematic/sketch of what's installed on 41CC, from fuel tank cap to carb inlet. In the text he gives rules of thumb for gravity feed systems but almost discounts the calculated minimum static head as being unrealistic by saying that there are many, many proven designs out flying with nowhere near that amount of head. The more realistic rules of thumb that he gives are to figure a minimum flowrate in takeoff configuration as 1.2 lbs. per HP-hr. or 150% of the takeoff fuel consumption rate. For a nominal 75 takeoff horsepower engine, the 1.2 lb./HP-hr gives 15 gallons per hour minimum flow. I couldn't find takeoff fuel consumption specs on the A75 but cruise consumption is given as 4.8 gal./hr. so for simplicity let's use 6 gal./hr. at takeoff power. Using that, the 150% gives a minimum required flow of 9 gal./hr. so there are two numbers that you can use to check against. Looking in "Tony Bingelis on Engines", he has a schematic/sketch very similar to the one from the earlier "Sportplane Builder" but in this one he clearly labels a minimum of 17" (0.5 psi static head) between the bottom of the fuel tank and the fuel inlet to the carb. My airplane does not have 17". I'll have to measure it (or estimate it) next time I have the cowling off but I'd be surprised if it's half that. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: May 27, 2008
Gene, It's a beaut, just like the one my N-1033B. Did you have to keep Jay's feet to the fire on del time, i did. but the work is very nice and the price is right. gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jay Anderson Prop Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is outstanding for a Piet), Gene in Tennessee N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: May 27, 2008
I found this link to Barnstormers: http://www.barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=32216 <http://www.barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=32216&id=236220&title=LOT S+OF+NEW+PROPELLERS&return=%2FPropeller%2C%2520Pusher%2520Classifieds.html&P HPSESSID=b29e34feaa5> &id=236220&title=LOTS+OF+NEW+PROPELLERS&return=%2FPropeller%2C%2520Pusher%25 20Classifieds.html&PHPSESSID=b29e34feaa5 Looks like you have to fill out the questionnaire to get a response. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (8 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FTLovley Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jay Anderson Prop Tell us more about Jay Anderson Props...where are they made..??...etc In a message dated 05/27/08 18:00:15 Central Daylight Time, zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes: Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is outstanding for a Piet), Gene in Tennessee N502R _____ Stay informed, get connected and more with <http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview.jsp?productOverview=aol-mobile-overvi ew&?ncid=aolmbd00030000000139> AOL on your phone. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel Flow Rates
Rule of thumb is 1/2 lb per hour per hp. Assuming full 75 hp being used then that's 37.5 lb / hr, a little over 6 lb / hr flow. Anyway, my center section is pretty much done except for fuel tank and lexan skylights. :-) Clif > > > For a nominal 75 takeoff horsepower engine, the 1.2 lb./HP-hr gives 15 > gallons per hour minimum flow. I couldn't find takeoff fuel consumption > specs on the A75 but cruise consumption is given as 4.8 gal./hr. so for > simplicity let's use 6 gal./hr. at takeoff power. Using that, the 150% > gives a minimum required flow of 9 gal./hr. so there are two numbers that > you can use to check against. > > Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2008
Subject: Front seat shoulder harness attach
Hi Guys, Here are some photos of my answer to the problem of securing the front seat passenger shoulder harness. My criteria was #1) Not to interfere with the wing cross bracing, or #2) To attach in any way directly to the wing or wing bracing. The thinking was that in a nose-in situation the belts would be held by the fuselage attach points and the wing could separate from the airplane and go its merry way while still hold my passenger securely into the fuselage. I hope you can see all of this from these pictures. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 28, 2008
Subject: More photos-front seat shoulder harness attach
More photos Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Flow Rates
Date: May 28, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Nice looking work, Clif Jack Phillips T-Minus 58 days and counting till Brodhead -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Flow Rates Rule of thumb is 1/2 lb per hour per hp. Assuming full 75 hp being used then that's 37.5 lb / hr, a little over 6 lb / hr flow. Anyway, my center section is pretty much done except for fuel tank and lexan skylights. :-) Clif > > > For a nominal 75 takeoff horsepower engine, the 1.2 lb./HP-hr gives 15 > gallons per hour minimum flow. I couldn't find takeoff fuel consumption > specs on the A75 but cruise consumption is given as 4.8 gal./hr. so for > simplicity let's use 6 gal./hr. at takeoff power. Using that, the 150% > gives a minimum required flow of 9 gal./hr. so there are two numbers that > you can use to check against. > > Oscar Zuniga _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: Ben Williams <Ben.Williams(at)pdi.dreamworks.com>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Gene, Nice prop! I like your windscreens, too. Could you send more pix and maybe some dimensions on those? We are just this weekend making new ones for our Piet. Thanks, Jeff >Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 >scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's >been too windy to get any reliable performance >numbers but it climbs like an overweight >homesick angel (which is outstanding for a >Piet), >Gene in Tennessee >N502R > >Attachment converted: BoatG5:Jay Anderson Prop 018.jpg (JPEG/=ABIC=BB) (00C 3E627) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Beautiful Gene, what did it cost? Rick On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as > good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance > numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is > outstanding for a Piet), > Gene in Tennessee > N502R > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: another new prop
Date: May 28, 2008
Speaking of new props, I just got my new 72x36 Culver prop. It's made up of four laminations and is a very nice prop, also a good value. No idea how it will fly on the A75 but I'll know in a few weeks. I had them paint the tips yellow and probably should have had them do the backside of the blades flat black, but I guess I can do that later. Photo at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/IMG_1004.JPG . And Culver is now a subsidiary of Valley Engineering, LLC, the guys (Gene Smith) who made the redrive for the VW engine along with a bunch of other clever stuff. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: Pastor M F Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Parkersburg pictures
Here are pictures of Sunday's tornado destruction of Parkersburg Iowa and Sinclair, Iowa from pilots Galen Eilderts and Galen Isley: http://picasaweb.google.com/generaldcmills/ParkersburgTornado/photo#s5204893272879008178 This is north of us about 80 miles or so.... Pastor Mike ________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: More photos-front seat shoulder harness attach
Dan, Nice welding! Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: More photos-front seat shoulder harness attach More photos Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
I am thinking of an A65-9 to A85-9 for my 701 ( a Raven redrive and G13 are the fall back plan at the moment) . I seem to not find any. The A65 has about the same torque as a geared 912 and swings a 72 inch prop @ ( from memory here :^) around 44 to 54 inch pitch. But I'd like a starter. I'd agree that the gears and such would be the problem with the accessory case idea, but what is Brodhead and who is Bill Rewey. Any contact info? Thanks Kevin [quote="Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal"]Buy an A65-9 accessory case. Those are pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which used the A65 , but with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very uncomfortable and dangerous. Or talk with Bill Rewey at Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. Jack NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Wide body. Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" > --- -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185263#185263 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Date: May 28, 2008
There is a guy in Minnesota who made a starter setup for his homebuilt Cub. I can't recall his name but will look it up. It is a bit of a Rube Goldberg setup but seems to work well. There is another one in the works as well that I know of but I can't divulge the source yet. I will check on it to see if he is ready to go public. I think he is even thinking of getting an STC on that one. I know where an A-65-9 is but in the 20 years or so I have been playing with old airplane types it is the only one I have seen. I don't know what a A85-9 is. I think you may mean a C85-12 which has a starter. Those are getting scarce enough (not a lot of good cranks and cams) that an 0-200 would be a good choice. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On May 28, 2008, at 2:46 PM, kmccune wrote: > > I am thinking of an A65-9 to A85-9 for my 701 ( a Raven redrive and > G13 are the fall back plan at the moment) . I seem to not find any. > The A65 has about the same torque as a geared 912 and swings a 72 > inch prop @ ( from memory here :^) around 44 to 54 inch pitch. But > I'd like a starter. I'd agree that the gears and such would be the > problem with the accessory case idea, but what is Brodhead and who > is Bill Rewey. Any contact info? > > > Thanks > > Kevin > > [quote="Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal"]Buy an A65-9 accessory case. > Those are pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which > used the A65 , but with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very > uncomfortable and dangerous.=EF=BD Or talk with Bill Rewey at > Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. > > Jack > NX899JP > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of walt evans > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Wide body. > > > Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an > A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. > Walt Evans > NX140DL > "No one ever learned anything by talking" > >> --- > > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by > the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw > off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade > winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185263#185263 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Date: May 28, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Brodhead is the annual Pietenpol / Hatz Biplane fly-in at Brodhead, Wiscons in (C37). It is always the weekend before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, but will have many more Pietenpols and other interesting types than you will l ikely find at Oshkosh. Bill Rewey is a Pietenpol builder who has an ancien t starter mechanism on the A65 on his Pietenpol. Bill always attends both Brodhead and Oshkosh. His Pietenpol is grey with yellow wings and Navy mar kings Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wide body. There is a guy in Minnesota who made a starter setup for his homebuilt Cub. I can't recall his name but will look it up. It is a bit of a Rube Goldber g setup but seems to work well. There is another one in the works as well t hat I know of but I can't divulge the source yet. I will check on it to see if he is ready to go public. I think he is even thinking of getting an STC on that one. I know where an A-65-9 is but in the 20 years or so I have be en playing with old airplane types it is the only one I have seen. I don't know what a A85-9 is. I think you may mean a C85-12 which has a starter. Th ose are getting scarce enough (not a lot of good cranks and cams) that an 0 -200 would be a good choice. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On May 28, 2008, at 2:46 PM, kmccune wrote: I am thinking of an A65-9 to A85-9 for my 701 ( a Raven redrive and G13 are the fall back plan at the moment) . I seem to not find any. The A65 has ab out the same torque as a geared 912 and swings a 72 inch prop @ ( from memo ry here :^) around 44 to 54 inch pitch. But I'd like a starter. I'd agree t hat the gears and such would be the problem with the accessory case idea, b ut what is Brodhead and who is Bill Rewey. Any contact info? Thanks Kevin [quote="Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal"]Buy an A65-9 accessory case. Those ar e pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which used the A65 , b ut with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very uncomfortable and danger ous.=EF=BD Or talk with Bill Rewey at Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. Jack NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol- list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Wide body. Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" --- -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the thin gs that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowline s. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Exp lore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185263#185263 - The --> &n - &n bs --> ====================== = _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas e notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 28, 2008
For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 28, 2008
I made one a few months ago. I welded in three fittings. There is one for 1/4 NPT on one aft corner for a sump drain. The other side of the tank has one 3/8 NPT ofr a fuel outlet in the rear corner and one in the front corner. I wanted one forward and one aft so I would not run dry either nose up or nose down. Those two lines will both go down the jury struts and T in the fusalage. The rear one will be configured so there will not be a low point on it before the T and a constant downward path to the gascolator so water does not collect there with the tail down. I will be able to sump the gascolator and the tank drain and that should catch any water in one or the other side of the tank if the plane is not level. I thought after doing it about an outlet in each corner, but as long as I remember not to slip in the wrong direction with low fuel it will be O.K. My tank bottom is flat. All the water will go out the aft corner fittings when it is on the ground. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: May 28, 2008
Re: Pietenpol-List: Jay Anderson PropHere's the info on my scimitar Prop. 76X38 Cost just under $800 (about $200 more than the 74X38 Sterba prop I replaced). Delivery was right on time but be forewarned that he usually waits to build scimitar props until he has a half dozen orders. Regular props are priced less. My wife bought the scimitar for my birthday as she knew that was the prop I wanted from the start but at that time it looked like delivery was 6 months off. N502R has an A-65 in it and I'm now happy with the performance, both climb and cruise. Jay's info. Jay Anderson Cloudcars 408 N Houston St Comanche, Tx 76442 cloudcars(at)verison.net Phone: 325-356-2810 Jeff, thank you for the kind words about my windscreens. The front one is clear plexiglas that I molded with heat and the back one is tinted and was cold bent with a brake. If I ever replace them I think I'll just cold bend both with a brake (takes much less time and still looks good). This weekend I will measure them for you. I do have a pattern that I would be happy to send you. May not fit your plane but would at least give you a starting point and maybe save you some time. Gene in Tennessee N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Date: May 28, 2008
Kevin, Try to find an "Airboat Group". I've been told that they have come up with starter for the A 65. Gene----- Original Message ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: another new prop
Date: May 28, 2008
Good looking prop Oscar! I was unaware that culver was a subsidiary of Valley Engineering. I've heard a lot of good things about Gene Smith (I think his sons work with him also). Keep us posted on how it does on your A 75. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
Thanks for the reply, I made a typo... not hard with my typing skills, meant an A75. Not to worry as for time, I have a rudder, H. Stab and an elevator.... I'm not flying any time soon! :^( Do you know what the dry weight of an AXX-9, or modified AXX might be? I can push past 200lbs but not too far. Thanks Kevin CH 701 S/N 7172 [quote="jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc."]There is a guy in Minnesota who made a starter setup for his homebuilt Cub. I can't recall his name but will look it up. It is a bit of a Rube Goldberg setup but seems to work well. There is another one in the works as well that I know of but I can't divulge the source yet. I will check on it to see if he is ready to go public. I think he is even thinking of getting an STC on that one. I know where an A-65-9 is but in the 20 years or so I have been playing with old airplane types it is the only one I have seen. I don't know what a A85-9 is. I think you may mean a C85-12 which has a starter. Those are getting scarce enough (not a lot of good cranks and cams) that an 0-200 would be a good choice. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com) On May 28, 2008, at 2:46 PM, kmccune wrote: [quote] > [b] -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185303#185303 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
Thanks, Guess I'll have to try to look him up at Oshkosh. If you know him , could you email and ask if I could contact him? I hate to ask, but its better then looking him up and then asking 1000 or so questions. Thanks Kevin Ch 701 S/N 7172 [quote="Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal"]Brodhead is the annual Pietenpol / Hatz Biplane fly-in at Brodhead, Wisconsin (C37). It is always the weekend before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, but will have many more Pietenpols and other interesting types than you will likely find at Oshkosh. Bill Rewey is a Pietenpol builder who has an ancient starter mechanism on the A65 on his Pietenpol. Bill always attends both Brodhead and Oshkosh. His Pietenpol is grey with yellow wings and Navy markings Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:08 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wide body. There is a guy in Minnesota who made a starter setup for his homebuilt Cub. I can't recall his name but will look it up. It is a bit of a Rube Goldberg setup but seems to work well. There is another one in the works as well that I know of but I can't divulge the source yet. I will check on it to see if he is ready to go public. I think he is even thinking of getting an STC on that one. I know where an A-65-9 is but in the 20 years or so I have been playing with old airplane types it is the only one I have seen. I don't know what a A85-9 is. I think you may mean a C85-12 which has a starter. Those are getting scarce enough (not a lot of good cranks and cams) that an 0-200 would be a good choice. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com) On May 28, 2008, at 2:46 PM, kmccune wrote: I am thinking of an A65-9 to A85-9 for my 701 ( a Raven redrive and G13 are the fall back plan at the moment) . I seem to not find any. The A65 has about the same torque as a geared 912 and swings a 72 inch prop @ ( from memory here :^) around 44 to 54 inch pitch. But I'd like a starter. I'd agree that the gears and such would be the problem with the accessory case idea, but what is Brodhead and who is Bill Rewey. Any contact info? Thanks Kevin [quote="Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal"]Buy an A65-9 accessory case. Those are pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which used the A65 , but with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very uncomfortable and dangerous. Or talk with Bill Rewey at Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. Jack NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com (pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Wide body. Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" --- -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185263#185263 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185263#185263) - The --> &n - &nbs --> ======================= > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 0 > [b] -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185305#185305 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
Do you have anymore info as to what group? yahoo group??? Thanks Kevin CH 701 S/N 7172 zharvey(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > Kevin, Try to find an "Airboat Group". I've been told that they have come > up with starter for the A 65. > Gene--- -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185306#185306 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
And finally...thanks for the help guys, I have no idea were to go for the info I'm looking for. Kevin CH 701 S/N 7172 -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185307#185307 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Date: May 28, 2008
Sorry, I really don't have anymore info than that. Have you tried the flybaby site? Harry Fenton has lots of info on the A 65 there. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wide body. > > Do you have anymore info as to what group? yahoo group??? > > > Thanks > Kevin > CH 701 S/N 7172 > > > zharvey(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> Kevin, Try to find an "Airboat Group". I've been told that they have >> come >> up with starter for the A 65. >> Gene--- > > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the > things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the > bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your > sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185306#185306 > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 7:06 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 28, 2008
I have traded emails with Mr Fenton, your right I should ask him. He is the reason why I'm asking you. I will, let you know what answers I find. Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185321#185321 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: center section tank
Date: May 28, 2008
Hi Douwe My center section is 37" overall. I have 2 tanks holding 8.4 gal eaq. The attached pic shows the 2 sumps, shut off valves and fuel guages. There are also finger strainers in each tank. In addition, I have a header tank in the nose for 2 gal. I was out for 1.9 hours today, 22.5 total on it to this point. Working off the 40 hours for Brodhead and the weather this year is doing it's best not to cooperate. Locals reported a tornado on Sunday just south of the airport but it didn't actually touch down. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > > For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to > get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and > how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? > > Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the > wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord > willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Date: May 28, 2008
Bill Rewey's phone number is 608-833-5839 Give him a call. He lives in Madison, Wi. he's built two Pietenpols, and one "Ultra Lght" Pietempol. He' been flying his current Piet NX17WR since the early 90's, powered by an A-65 and has made the 1400 mi. trip from Madison to Sun N Fun in Florida four times. He has his Piet at Oshkosh every year and by EAA's invitation it is displayed in the area where all the new LSA's are near the Antique Club House. And as always, he'll have his Piet at Brodhead on Friday and Saturday prior to Oshkosh. Roman Bukolt NX20795 On May 28, 2008, at 9:48 PM, kmccune wrote: > > I have traded emails with Mr Fenton, your right I should ask him. > He is the reason why I'm asking you. I will, let you know what > answers I find. > > Kevin > > -------- > Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by > the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw > off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade > winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185321#185321 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wide body.
Here is what I have stored in my archives... Ken H Gene & Tammy wrote: Kevin, Try to find an "Airboat Group". I've been told that they have come up with starter for the A 65. Gene----- Original Message ----- Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 29, 2008
Dick, Very neat fuel contents gauges, where did they come from? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: center section tank Hi Douwe My center section is 37" overall. I have 2 tanks holding 8.4 gal eaq. The attached pic shows the 2 sumps, shut off valves and fuel guages. There are also finger strainers in each tank. In addition, I have a header tank in the nose for 2 gal. I was out for 1.9 hours today, 22.5 total on it to this point. Working off the 40 hours for Brodhead and the weather this year is doing it's best not to cooperate. Locals reported a tornado on Sunday just south of the airport but it didn't actually touch down. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > > For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to > get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and > how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? > > Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the > wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord > willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 29, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
My Centersection is 36" wide with a single 15.5 gallon tank. I have a fuel pickup at each corner (just like a Stearman) and run the fuel lines down the cabanes. I have two sump drains - one at each rear corner. I dished out the tank in the area where the sump drains are to make them the lowest point of the tank. With this setup total unusable fuel is about 2 Tablespoons. See attached photo: Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: center section tank Hi Douwe My center section is 37" overall. I have 2 tanks holding 8.4 gal eaq. The attached pic shows the 2 sumps, shut off valves and fuel guages. There are also finger strainers in each tank. In addition, I have a header tank in the nose for 2 gal. I was out for 1.9 hours today, 22.5 total on it to this point. Working off the 40 hours for Brodhead and the weather this year is doing it's best not to cooperate. Locals reported a tornado on Sunday just south of the airport but it didn't actually touch down. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > > For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to > get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and > how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? > > Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the > wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord > willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... > > Douwe > > > _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2008
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: C-65 Engine for Sale in TX
Piet List, At the Old Kingsbury fly-in I met Harvey Thompson, a retired airline pilot who has a C-65 for sale that sounded like a good deal. The engine was overhauled, run for an hour, and then pickled. I think he is asking $4500. I have attached a pic of the engine, and you can contact Harvey at: treetopair(at)sbcglobal.net I have no financial interest in the sale, but if you have trouble contacting him, email me offline at jjr48(at)slb.com. I also have a few more pics of the engine. Regards, John F. Richmond, TX GN-1 / Corvair 164cid ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 29, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Jack, Your craftsmanship continues to amaze me! From the picture it looks like rivets around the edges of the combing. Is it backed with aluminum, screwed to the fuselage? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 29, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Thanks for the compliment, Jack. I think what you are seeing are the sheet metal screws that hold the aluminum cowlings in place. There are hundreds of #10 x 3/8" stainless steel sheet metal screws that screw into the 1/4" thick spruce strip glued to the upper longerons, and into the laminated wooden bows that provide the circular cross section of the cowling. I was a little concerned with sheet metal screws ability to hold securely, but after 4 years of flying and well over 100 hours of flight time, none of them have ever gotten loose. Here are a couple more pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:59 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section tank Jack, Your craftsmanship continues to amaze me! From the picture it looks like rivets around the edges of the combing. Is it backed with aluminum, screwed to the fuselage? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas e notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wd6auy" <wd6auy(at)coastinet.com>
Subject: New $100 dollar breakfast location For Ohio Piets!!
Date: May 29, 2008
Greetings, Mike - do you have Steve Williamson's email address? He would like to contact you off-list. 73's, Dick I'm getting hungry just reading your post Shad. Nice find. Nearer to Frankie P. and Don E. is Salem Air Park where Don reports (and others) of a great little new restaurant right on the field. Nice airport too with both E/W grass and pavement. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: what to do if you have a screw loose
Date: May 29, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
that holds the metal around your cockpit areas to the fuselage wood: Take screw out, insert toothpick in hole with a dab of T-88 on it, break off, let cure. Re-install screw. This tip from Sky Gypsy owner Frank Pavliga to me years ago. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Gene I would also appreciate getting the dimensions of your windscreens. Rick On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > Here's the info on my scimitar Prop. 76X38 Cost just under $800 > (about $200 more than the 74X38 Sterba prop I replaced). Delivery was right > on time but be forewarned that he usually waits to build scimitar props > until he has a half dozen orders. Regular props are priced less. My wife > bought the scimitar for my birthday as she knew that was the prop I wanted > from the start but at that time it looked like delivery was 6 months off. > N502R has an A-65 in it and I'm now happy with the performance, both climb > and cruise. > Jay's info. Jay Anderson > Cloudcars > 408 N Houston St > Comanche, Tx 76442 > cloudcars(at)verison.net > Phone: 325-356-2810 > > Jeff, thank you for the kind words about my windscreens. The front one is > clear plexiglas that I molded with heat and the back one is tinted and > was cold bent with a brake. If I ever replace them I think I'll just cold > bend both with a brake (takes much less time and still looks good). This > weekend I will measure them for you. I do have a pattern that I would be > happy to send you. May not fit your plane but would at least give you a > starting point and maybe save you some time. > Gene in Tennessee > N502R > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: center section tank
Date: May 29, 2008
Peter Those guage assys are in the Aircraft Spruce Cataloug. They come with the welding flanges and all parts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > > Dick, > > Very neat fuel contents gauges, where did they come from? > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick > Navratil > Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2008 12:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > Hi Douwe > My center section is 37" overall. I have 2 tanks holding 8.4 gal eaq. > The > attached pic shows the 2 sumps, shut off valves and fuel guages. There > are > also finger strainers in each tank. In addition, I have a header tank in > the nose for 2 gal. > I was out for 1.9 hours today, 22.5 total on it to this point. Working > off > the 40 hours for Brodhead and the weather this year is doing it's best not > to cooperate. Locals reported a tornado on Sunday just south of the > airport > > but it didn't actually touch down. > > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > To: "pietenpolgroup" > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:18 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > >> >> >> For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to >> get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and >> how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? >> >> Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the >> wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord >> willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... >> >> Douwe >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: May 30, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Radio Help
Date: May 29, 2008
I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
Date: May 29, 2008
Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, I took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF antenna. Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground plate, approx 24"x18" I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more that 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lagowski Morrow To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: center section tank
Date: May 30, 2008
Thanks Dick, found them. Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Friday, 30 May 2008 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: center section tank Peter Those guage assys are in the Aircraft Spruce Cataloug. They come with the welding flanges and all parts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > > Dick, > > Very neat fuel contents gauges, where did they come from? > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick > Navratil > Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2008 12:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > Hi Douwe > My center section is 37" overall. I have 2 tanks holding 8.4 gal eaq. > The > attached pic shows the 2 sumps, shut off valves and fuel guages. There > are > also finger strainers in each tank. In addition, I have a header tank in > the nose for 2 gal. > I was out for 1.9 hours today, 22.5 total on it to this point. Working > off > the 40 hours for Brodhead and the weather this year is doing it's best not > to cooperate. Locals reported a tornado on Sunday just south of the > airport > > but it didn't actually touch down. > > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > To: "pietenpolgroup" > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:18 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section tank > > >> >> >> For those of you who changed their center section fuel tank from plans to >> get more capacity, how many sumps did you use, where are they located and >> how did you configure the tank bottom to ensure proper water drainage? >> >> Wings and tailfeathers painted, just finished painting my numbers on the >> wing!! now they get hung up and the fuse and engine comes back out. Lord >> willing, we'll fly up to Bhead next year... >> >> Douwe >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Windshild
Date: May 30, 2008
Jeff, Went to the hanger this morning before work and made a copy of the windshild. Will try to send it off today. The front of the windshild is 10" across and the sides are each bent back about 30 degrees. The great thing about building your own is that you can adjust the measurements anyway you want them but this pattern should help you get started. Also, I misspoke when I said I made mine of plexiglas, I made them out of Lexan. Rick, you asked for measurements but I'm not sure they would be of much help. I cut out a copy of the pattern for you also, if you want it. Let me know. I'm off to work Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wide body.
From: "kmccune" <kmccune(at)somtel.net>
Date: May 30, 2008
thanks again guys Kevin -------- Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185563#185563 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: May 31, 2008
Gene, would you send me the windshield pattern also? Would appreciate it. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Jeff, Went to the hanger this morning before work and made a copy of the windshild. Will try to send it off today. The front of the windshild is 10" across and the sides are each bent back about 30 degrees. The great thing about building your own is that you can adjust the measurements anyway you want them but this pattern should help you get started. Also, I misspoke when I said I made mine of plexiglas, I made them out of Lexan. Rick, you asked for measurements but I'm not sure they would be of much help. I cut out a copy of the pattern for you also, if you want it. Let me know. I'm off to work Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Gene How did you attach your windscreen? Is it screwed into wood under the aluminum or did you rivet blind nuts under the aluminum to screw into? Rick On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 6:20 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > Jeff, Went to the hanger this morning before work and made a copy of the > windshild. Will try to send it off today. The front of the windshild is > 10" across and the sides are each bent back about 30 degrees. The great > thing about building your own is that you can adjust the measurements anyway > you want them but this pattern should help you get started. Also, I > misspoke when I said I made mine of plexiglas, I made them out of Lexan. > Rick, you asked for measurements but I'm not sure they would be of much > help. I cut out a copy of the pattern for you also, if you want it. Let me > know. > I'm off to work > Gene > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Piet Engine
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: May 31, 2008
I went to KLAM yesterday and spent the morning with the EAA Chapter Pres Jeff who just happened to have a Piet engine sitting on the stand. No matter what I tried I couldn't get him to turn his back long enough to allow me to stick it in my pocket. I was drooling though! Sorry Oscar I hope the drool marks didn't mess it up too much! I did take some pictures and if you'd like Jeff I'll post them or forward them to you and you can post them. Here's proof of the hostage (I wish!)! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185618#185618 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_3398_sm_126.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Buckeye Piets for Barber Fly-in
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 31, 2008
Hey Shad and other Buckeyes, Shad, are you going to try to make it over to the Barber Fly-in next weekend? I know it was mentioned a few weeks ago, but I thought I'd bring it up again. I'm shooting for at least being there early Saturday morning for breakfast and whatever else. I know it is an alternative engine fly-in but I figure if I can at least get another Piet with an auto engine to show up maybe I'll blend in. If anyone on the list shows up and the weather is decent and I can shoehorn them into the front pit the offer is open for a ride. Last year was the first year I think so the turnout was low. There were a few Corvairs that flew in though. KR's I think. Still fun though! It would be really cool to get a few Piets there! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185620#185620 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Buckeye Piets for Barber Fly-in
Date: May 30, 2008
Hey Don and Shad, Wish I could come to the Barber flyin Saturday, unfortunately our Hales Landing picnic is that day. I will try to get up there Sunday morning. Anyone in the NW part of WV or SE area of OH not going the Barber is invited to our picnic at Hales. Lunch is 12 noon. We have 5 Piets or Piet projects on the field. Contact me at skipgadd at earthlink dot net for more info. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 5/31/2008 11:46:55 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buckeye Piets for Barber Fly-in > > > Hey Shad and other Buckeyes, > > Shad, are you going to try to make it over to the Barber Fly-in next weekend? I know it was mentioned a few weeks ago, but I thought I'd bring it up again. I'm shooting for at least being there early Saturday morning for breakfast and whatever else. I know it is an alternative engine fly-in but I figure if I can at least get another Piet with an auto engine to show up maybe I'll blend in. If anyone on the list shows up and the weather is decent and I can shoehorn them into the front pit the offer is open for a ride. Last year was the first year I think so the turnout was low. There were a few Corvairs that flew in though. KR's I think. Still fun though! It would be really cool to get a few Piets there! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185620#185620 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: May 31, 2008
Rick, I'm getting ready to leave on a six week motorcycle trip and it would be best for me if you would send me your address and I'll get a copy off to you. As to how their mounted, keep in mind that I did not build the Piet and I simply copied the way it was attached in the first place. It is attached with bolts thru the aluminum with large backing washers and nuts. Works very well. Hope that helps Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: May 31, 2008
Gardiner, I'll be glad to. Send me your address. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Gene, would you send me the windshield pattern also? Would appreciate it. Gardiner Mason ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: May 31, 2008
Thank you Gene, my address is Gardiner Mason, 840 Woodley Dr. Atlanta, Ga, 30318. I am in the covering stage of my Piet now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Gardiner, I'll be glad to. Send me your address. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Gene, would you send me the windshield pattern also? Would appreciate it. Gardiner Mason ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Thanks Gene address is: Rick Holland 3732 Castle Butte Dr Castle Rock, CO 80109 Have a good trip. On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > Rick, I'm getting ready to leave on a six week motorcycle trip and it > would be best for me if you would send me your address and I'll get a copy > off to you. As to how their mounted, keep in mind that I did not build the > Piet and I simply copied the way it was attached in the first place. It is > attached with bolts thru the aluminum with large backing washers and nuts. > Works very well. > Hope that helps > Gene > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Buckeye Piets for Barber Fly-in
Don, I plan on flying up on Sat moning, so if it's not foggy I should be there between 9-10 am or so. It will be about 1.5 hrs or so flight time. Dad can't make it, he will be working out of state next weekend. Well I guess I'd better get er cleaned up and get the bug guts and mud off of her if she has to be presentable. See Ya next week Shad NX92GB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Suggestions on finding media blasting
Good evening all, It was a beautiful day today, and I was able to make a little progress, getting the front cover finished. We're at the point now that we have parts out being reworked (carb, crank, heads etc), a pile of parts waiting to be sent out for core exchange (cylinders, rods, cam, etc), and assorted parts that need to be media blasted (valve covers, baffling, front cover, rear cover). Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find a shop or business that may be amicable towards renting time in their media blasters? The steel needs more abrasive media such as glass or sand, but the aluminum is going to need less harsh media, anywhere from plastic to walnut or what have you. I would really like to do the blasting myself, because I do not want any mating surfaces or other areas damaged because whomever is doing it does not know what they are doing. Someday I would like to get a blasting cabinet, but the air compressor we have right now is not big enough (33 gallon 1.5hp oilless), and there is no room for a proper shop compressor. All of the shops I've tried thus far only have had very abrasive blast media (usually sand). I'm hoping someone may have an idea of where to search. Have a good weekend, Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Suggestions on finding media blasting
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2008
Hi, If you want to do it yourself its possible with a little compressor, just very slow. Harbor freight has a little (20 lbs) maybe hopper type blaster thats cheap( $25 I think) and only uses about 3-4cfm at pretty low pressure, which is in the range of small compressors. You can get media from walnut shells to fast cutting stuff from HF as well. Eastwood company has baking soda blasting stuff if you want to do it really light. Your signature said Chicago area.. there must be hundreds of places that do media blasting around there, would look under powder coating, as nearly all the places that powder coat also do media blasting. The media goes everywhere though, if its a removable part I would remove it and do it as far from your house as possible, protect eyes/lungs/skin.. both blasting and powder coating are very messy. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185724#185724 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: RE: CorvAircraft> Suggestions on finding media blasting
Date: Jun 01, 2008
Ryan, A stainless steel wire wheel in a 3/8" variable-speed reversible hand drill can do wonders on virtually every part of your core engine. Mine started out looking like any other filthy core engine and now looks like this: http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue75/Centerfold.jpg Of course some buffing was done on several surfaces, but the vast majority of the bare aluminum and all the painted steel parts were wire-wheeled. Pat > -----Original Message----- > From: corvaircraft-bounces(at)mylist.net [mailto:corvaircraft- > bounces(at)mylist.net] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:04 AM > To: corvaircraft(at)mylist.net > Subject: CorvAircraft> Suggestions on finding media blasting > > (If this posted already, I apologize. I made a misstep in some of my list > settings, and I may not have had this address subscribed when I sent it > the > first time.) > > Good evening all, > > It was a beautiful day today, and I was able to make a little progress, > getting the front cover finished. We're at the point now that we have > parts > out being reworked (carb, crank, heads etc), a pile of parts waiting to be > sent out for core exchange (cylinders, rods, cam, etc), and assorted parts > that need to be media blasted (valve covers, baffling, front cover, rear > cover). Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find a shop or > business > that may be amicable towards renting time in their media blasters? > > The steel needs more abrasive media such as glass or sand, but the > aluminum > is going to need less harsh media, anywhere from plastic to walnut or what > have you. I would really like to do the blasting myself, because I do not > want any mating surfaces or other areas damaged because whomever is doing > it > does not know what they are doing. Someday I would like to get a blasting > cabinet, but the air compressor we have right now is not big enough (33 > gallon 1.5hp oilless), and there is no room for a proper shop compressor. > All of the shops I've tried thus far only have had very abrasive blast > media > (usually sand). I'm hoping someone may have an idea of where to search. > > Have a good weekend, > > Ryan > _________________________________________________________ > search the CorvAircraft archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft- > leave(at)mylist.net > Other CorvAircraft list info is at > http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2008
From: Pastor M F Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: RE: CorvAircraft> Suggestions on finding media blasting
That looks pretty impressive Pat! Mike in Iowa Patrick Panzera wrote: > > Ryan, > > A stainless steel wire wheel in a 3/8" variable-speed reversible hand drill > can do wonders on virtually every part of your core engine. > > Mine started out looking like any other filthy core engine and now looks > like this: http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue75/Centerfold.jpg > Of course some buffing was done on several surfaces, but the vast majority > of the bare aluminum and all the painted steel parts were wire-wheeled. > > Pat > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: corvaircraft-bounces(at)mylist.net [mailto:corvaircraft- >> bounces(at)mylist.net] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller >> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:04 AM >> To: corvaircraft(at)mylist.net >> Subject: CorvAircraft> Suggestions on finding media blasting >> >> (If this posted already, I apologize. I made a misstep in some of my list >> settings, and I may not have had this address subscribed when I sent it >> the >> first time.) >> >> Good evening all, >> >> It was a beautiful day today, and I was able to make a little progress, >> getting the front cover finished. We're at the point now that we have >> parts >> out being reworked (carb, crank, heads etc), a pile of parts waiting to be >> sent out for core exchange (cylinders, rods, cam, etc), and assorted parts >> that need to be media blasted (valve covers, baffling, front cover, rear >> cover). Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find a shop or >> business >> that may be amicable towards renting time in their media blasters? >> >> The steel needs more abrasive media such as glass or sand, but the >> aluminum >> is going to need less harsh media, anywhere from plastic to walnut or what >> have you. I would really like to do the blasting myself, because I do not >> want any mating surfaces or other areas damaged because whomever is doing >> it >> does not know what they are doing. Someday I would like to get a blasting >> cabinet, but the air compressor we have right now is not big enough (33 >> gallon 1.5hp oilless), and there is no room for a proper shop compressor. >> All of the shops I've tried thus far only have had very abrasive blast >> media >> (usually sand). I'm hoping someone may have an idea of where to search. >> >> Have a good weekend, >> >> Ryan >> _________________________________________________________ >> search the CorvAircraft archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft- >> leave(at)mylist.net >> Other CorvAircraft list info is at >> http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: gross wt
Date: Jun 01, 2008
I did a test today with full fuel and weights in front seat to give me a gross wt of 1310 lbs. at 77 deg. I could tell the plane didnt like this very much. Climb was very sluggish and I had to increase power in cruise to maintain alt. My question, have any of you Corvair guys tried flying to this gross wt? I am curious max gross on others. Yesterday I tried 1250 lbs at 72 deg and got a climb of 400 fpm Today was about 200 fpm. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Bendix Ignitions switches
Members of the list:   I have (2)  Bendix Ignition Switches I would like to offer the group before listing on EBay. One is round and the other is square. I have had these for some time and they were tested to be in good condition. Any member still in search of a good ignition switch I would let these go for $50.00 each plus shipping. If interested check out the photos and let me know.   Thanks Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP   ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: gross wt
Date: Jun 01, 2008
Dick, Was this on your Rotec or Continental powered Piet? We've flown NX18235 (A-65 with a cruise prop) at about 1250 -1275 lbs on an 82 deg F. day. Performance was pretty anemic and I don't think I would want to fly it at heavier weights. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gross wt I did a test today with full fuel and weights in front seat to give me a gross wt of 1310 lbs. at 77 deg. I could tell the plane didnt like this very much. Climb was very sluggish and I had to increase power in cruise to maintain alt. My question, have any of you Corvair guys tried flying to this gross wt? I am curious max gross on others. Yesterday I tried 1250 lbs at 72 deg and got a climb of 400 fpm Today was about 200 fpm. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions on finding media blasting
Date: Jun 01, 2008
Hey Ryan, Do a google search for "soda blasting"....... Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggestions on finding media blasting Good evening all, It was a beautiful day today, and I was able to make a little progress, getting the front cover finished. We're at the point now that we have parts out being reworked (carb, crank, heads etc), a pile of parts waiting to be sent out for core exchange (cylinders, rods, cam, etc), and assorted parts that need to be media blasted (valve covers, baffling, front cover, rear cover). Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find a shop or business that may be amicable towards renting time in their media blasters? The steel needs more abrasive media such as glass or sand, but the aluminum is going to need less harsh media, anywhere from plastic to walnut or what have you. I would really like to do the blasting myself, because I do not want any mating surfaces or other areas damaged because whomever is doing it does not know what they are doing. Someday I would like to get a blasting cabinet, but the air compressor we have right now is not big enough (33 gallon 1.5hp oilless), and there is no room for a proper shop compressor. All of the shops I've tried thus far only have had very abrasive blast media (usually sand). I'm hoping someone may have an idea of where to search. Have a good weekend, Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: gross wt
Date: Jun 02, 2008
Dick, I have my max weight placarded at 1200lbs. I had my first two up flight (at Max Wt) a couple of weeks ago with full fuel and the Corvair hardly noticed. Another 110lbs and it could have been very different! Cheers Peter _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Monday, 2 June 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gross wt I did a test today with full fuel and weights in front seat to give me a gross wt of 1310 lbs. at 77 deg. I could tell the plane didnt like this very much. Climb was very sluggish and I had to increase power in cruise to maintain alt. My question, have any of you Corvair guys tried flying to this gross wt? I am curious max gross on others. Yesterday I tried 1250 lbs at 72 deg and got a climb of 400 fpm Today was about 200 fpm. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: Jun 02, 2008
Gardiner, it's on it's way. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Thank you Gene, my address is Gardiner Mason, 840 Woodley Dr. Atlanta, Ga, 30318. I am in the covering stage of my Piet now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Gardiner, I'll be glad to. Send me your address. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Gene, would you send me the windshield pattern also? Would appreciate it. Gardiner Mason href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/22/2008 7:06 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: Jun 02, 2008
Rick, it's on it's way. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshild Thanks Gene address is: Rick Holland 3732 Castle Butte Dr Castle Rock, CO 80109 Have a good trip. On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote: Rick, I'm getting ready to leave on a six week motorcycle trip and it would be best for me if you would send me your address and I'll get a copy off to you. As to how their mounted, keep in mind that I did not build the Piet and I simply copied the way it was attached in the first place. It is attached with bolts thru the aluminum with large backing washers and nuts. Works very well. Hope that helps Gene -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/22/2008 7:06 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2008
zharvey(at)bellsouth.net wrote: > Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is outstanding for a Piet), > Gene in Tennessee > N502R Ours must have been made during the same production run - mine is arriving today via FedEX. I am using an A-75, so the prop is a 72-38 in the same scimitar style, but using mahogany and ash versus walnut/ash. It's the top one in the picture, Cloudcars sent me the picture as soon as the prop was done. Glad to hear the performance is good. As to delivery - by luck I called out of the blue about one day before they were doing a run of scimitar props, so mine took hardly any time at all. I think I ordered it maybe a month ago. Their service and help on the phone was excellent. I figured I was in good hands when I mentioned the A-75 and Jay immediately suggested the same size prop I was going to ask for anyway; many folks don't know how to prop the A-75. Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185850#185850 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/our_prop_on_top_517.bmp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: EAA Chapter 1279 in action
Date: Jun 02, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vASvC5Sx7Eo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: Jun 02, 2008
We now have three Pietes running Jay Anderson Scrimitars. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jay Anderson Prop > > > zharvey(at)bellsouth.net wrote: >> Just had to show off my new Jay Anderson 76 X 38 scimitar prop. Flys as >> good as it looks. It's been too windy to get any reliable performance >> numbers but it climbs like an overweight homesick angel (which is >> outstanding for a Piet), >> Gene in Tennessee >> N502R > > > Ours must have been made during the same production run - mine is arriving > today via FedEX. I am using an A-75, so the prop is a 72-38 in the same > scimitar style, but using mahogany and ash versus walnut/ash. It's the top > one in the picture, Cloudcars sent me the picture as soon as the prop was > done. Glad to hear the performance is good. > > As to delivery - by luck I called out of the blue about one day before > they were doing a run of scimitar props, so mine took hardly any time at > all. I think I ordered it maybe a month ago. Their service and help on the > phone was excellent. I figured I was in good hands when I mentioned the > A-75 and Jay immediately suggested the same size prop I was going to ask > for anyway; many folks don't know how to prop the A-75. > > Mike D. > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185850#185850 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/our_prop_on_top_517.bmp > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brussels 2008
Date: Jun 02, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
To all within travelling distance: Just a reminder that the Brussels Pietenpol gathering is less than two weeks away. This (19th) annual event is held at a private grass strip (Armstrong Aerodrome) in the little village of Brussels, Ontario, and is scheduled for Saturday, June 14th (rain date Sunday the 15th). Same laid-back atmosphere as Brodhead, just a bit smaller. Guaranteed to have at least three Piets on site, since there are now three based at the airstrip. Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Brussels 2008
Date: Jun 02, 2008
One year already? Wow. And be not much further ahead since last fall. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 2, 2008 2:03 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brussels 2008 To all within travelling distance: Just a reminder that the Brussels Pietenpol gathering is less than two weeks away. This (19th) annual event is held at a private grass strip (Armstrong Aerodrome) in the little village of Brussels, Ontario, and is scheduled for Saturday, June 14th (rain date Sunday the 15th). Same laid-back atmosphere as Brodhead, just a bit smaller. Guaranteed to have at least three Piets on site, since there are now three based at the airstrip. Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Jay Anderson Prop
Date: Jun 02, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: gross wt
I have flown at about 1275 lbs and also have to add cruise power to mantain alt. Sluggish climb, and higher landing speed to ease it on to the ground. Not as much fun when your that heavy, Feels like its on the edge of it's envelope. That weight was with me 185lbs and a 220 pounder (6ft 4) in the front hole and folded up like a paper clip. With my wife and I it flys like a heavy loaded cub, not too bad and just a touch more power. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Model A
Date: Jun 02, 2008
Question to the list, with the model A engine what water temp and oil temp are you seeing. The out side air is about 80 degree, and the water temp is up to 200 degrees in the climb and about 190 to 195 stright and level at 1600 RPMs. The oil after about 10 minutes will go up to a185 degrees, if I reduce power and start to land with in a couple of minutes the oil will drop back to 180 degrees. Any and all thoughts please. Chet Hartley / Don Hicks really nice flying machine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: gross wt
Date: Jun 02, 2008
Thanks for the comparisson numbersguys. Greg, that was on the Rotec Piet. I was having a slight problem with my ASI and Alt. When I got back on the ground, I found a piece of crud in the static port, so I am going to run the test again. It will climb ok but it sure wants to come down fast on approach. I never tested the A-65 to more than 1150 lbs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gross wt Dick, Was this on your Rotec or Continental powered Piet? We've flown NX18235 (A-65 with a cruise prop) at about 1250 -1275 lbs on an 82 deg F. day. Performance was pretty anemic and I don't think I would want to fly it at heavier weights. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gross wt I did a test today with full fuel and weights in front seat to give me a gross wt of 1310 lbs. at 77 deg. I could tell the plane didnt like this very much. Climb was very sluggish and I had to increase power in cruise to maintain alt. My question, have any of you Corvair guys tried flying to this gross wt? I am curious max gross on others. Yesterday I tried 1250 lbs at 72 deg and got a climb of 400 fpm Today was about 200 fpm. Dick N. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
Date: Jun 03, 2008
Dick, many thanks for sharing your experience! I've decided to try the same approach and postpone getting new mags, wiring harness and plugs. Where did you put the antenna and ground plane?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, I took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF antenna. Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground plate, approx 24"x18" I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more that 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lagowski Morrow To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 5/29/2008 7:27 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2008
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
I apparently missed this thread and am catching up, so I beg forgiveness if somebody has already been through all this. I went through some radio problems with my Cub like you're trying to prevent. My circumstances might have been a bit different becaause the Cub is tubular steel construction and it completely surrounds the cockpit, creating a 'Faraday's Cage'. It basically cages in the electro-magnetic field from the transmitter. For the record, I had no problems (well, negligibly minor, you can hear the engine in the headsets, but it ain't bad) from the ignition system. I was using the little rubber duckie antenna and stuffing it in the seat pouch in front of me, with a DC H10-30 headset and PTT on the stick (and an intercom when I fly with a passenger). The rubber duckie ain't the greatest antenna by design. It's a compromise of convenience vs efficiency, with the decision personally favoring convenience a bit too much. A perfect antenna will match the frequency you're using, which sounds pretty ominous. If the antenna doesn't match the frequency, it loses efficiency the further your frequency is from the antenna's natural frequency. I got an antenna maybe 26-27 inches long (quarter wave), and hooked it up with a ground plane. It's mounted above the wing, outside the cage effect. If your plane is wood, the effect isn't anywhere near as great, but I have my questions about the silver coat on the fabric. My antenna isn't anything fancy; it's basically a stretch of stiff wire with an insulated mount. I bought a cheap SWR meter for about $30 (15 years ago, when I did this), and hooked it up between the radio and the antenna. Your transmitter's energy is going two places; radiated RF and heat. No setup is perfect, so you'll always have some heat loss, but the SWR (standing wave ratio) meter will help you minimize it. I tuned my radio to the frequency I thought was most important to me (121.5), hit the transmit button, and recorded the result shown on the SWR. Then I clipped a little (maybe 1/2") off the end of the antenna with some wire cutters and checked it again. The loss went down. Shorter antenna = higher resonant frequency. The trick is knowing when to stop cutting. One of the ways to deal with this is to use a lower frequency than you want and cut just past it, then move the frequency up and go again. Your antenna will resonate at this frequency either when it's receiving or transmitting, so performing this procedure will improve the efficiency of both. Note here that when you use the high-end (135 mhz) of the band, your antenna won't really be matched to that frequency, so the further you get from the natural frequency of your antenna, the worse it's going to get. It will still be waaaay better than your rubber duckie. Also don't forget to use good shielded cable and connectors between the radio and the antenna. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net> >Sent: Jun 3, 2008 8:33 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > >Dick, many thanks for sharing your experience! I've decided to try the same approach and postpone getting new mags, wiring harness and plugs. > >Where did you put the antenna and ground plane?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dick Navratil > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, I took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF antenna. Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground plate, approx 24"x18" > I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more that 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lagowski Morrow > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. > > Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. >5/29/2008 7:27 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
Dick, Could you please clarify your comment on the ground? The antenna shouldn't actually be grounded to a plate, right? What you want to do is attach the coax shielding (the outer braid) to a "ground plane" or plate at the base of the antenna. The antenna itself and the coax center signal wire should be insulated from everything else, particularly the ground plane. That is how I installed my antenna, it is on the bottom of the nose, ~30" behind the prop. It is an 1/8" brass brazing rod, routed through two nylon bushings or "sleeves" that I bought at Home Depot. It all cost me about $4, and I can transmit up to 125 nautical miles air to air. I bought an antenna book from RST Engineering for about $10 I believe. It had good and relatively brief and simple explanations on how to build several very effective antennas for aircraft. The book was very well worth it. I don't see it on their website, but I'm sure you could call or e-mail them about it. Three keys that stick in my mind are 1) have a good ground plane 2) the antenna must be the proper length and 3) keep the tip of the antenna away from other metal parts. http://www.rst-engr.com/ Steve Ruse Quoting Lagowski Morrow : > Dick, many thanks for sharing your experience! I've decided to try > the same approach and postpone getting new mags, wiring harness and > plugs. > > Where did you put the antenna and ground plane?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dick Navratil > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this > problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, > I took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF > antenna. Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground > plate, approx 24"x18" > I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more > that 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lagowski Morrow > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my > Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, > unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to > use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised > that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to > communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to > transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of > new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month > away from engine fireup. > > Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) > out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. > 5/29/2008 7:27 AM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 2008
Subject: 164 corvair engine
I just got back to Wilmington NC with a 1964 Corvair 110 hp motor that I bought in Lexington NC today. If you are serious about wanting a motor, Barry Owens has plenty of the ones we need for aircraft use or otherwise. here is the information: Barry Owens Cell # 336-250-966 358 Dixon St Lexington NC 27292 hope this may help someone Ted Stone /at work on Pietenpol **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 2008
Subject: 164 corvair engine
Correction I have a 1964 motor and I purchased a 1966 motor from Barry ____________________________________ From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com Sent: 6/3/2008 7:17:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: Pietenpol-List: 164 corvair engine I just got back to Wilmington NC with a 1964 Corvair 110 hp motor that I bought in Lexington NC today. If you are serious about wanting a motor, Barry Owens has plenty of the ones we need for aircraft use or otherwise. here is the information: Barry Owens Cell # 336-250-966 358 Dixon St Lexington NC 27292 hope this may help someone Ted Stone /at work on Pietenpol ____________________________________ Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. _Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) . (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Windshild
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2008
I am at the same stage.. posted a while back and got a lot of pictures but no templates or good mounting ideas. Made a windshield, but not too crazy about it. Could I get the same info? Be nice if it was in some format it could stay on the forum and be usable for, but I would be happy with it any way could get it. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186108#186108 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Windshield Size
Date: Jun 03, 2008
I measured mine today and they are 9" high and 16" wide on the curve, and mounted at a ~45 degree angle. The size came from experimenting with my hand around the edges of my motorcycle windshield at 65mph.--Jim Lagowski-- cabanes and center section of the wing installed today ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Windshild > > I am at the same stage.. posted a while back and got a lot of pictures but > no templates or good mounting ideas. Made a windshield, but not too crazy > about it. > > Could I get the same info? Be nice if it was in some format it could stay > on the forum and be usable for, but I would be happy with it any way could > get it. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186108#186108 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Windshild
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Jim. If you would like one send me your address and I'll send you the pattern off of mine, if I have time before I leave sunday. It may or may not be what your looking for but it could be a good start. I'm happy with it but that doesn't mean you will be. As far as mounting, it is mounted using 4 angled braces attached to the combing. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Windshild > > I am at the same stage.. posted a while back and got a lot of pictures but > no templates or good mounting ideas. Made a windshield, but not too crazy > about it. > > Could I get the same info? Be nice if it was in some format it could stay > on the forum and be usable for, but I would be happy with it any way could > get it. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186108#186108 > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 7:06 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: ol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Date: Jun 04, 2008
First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos like that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to include with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they didn't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I have more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year project, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying various designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly, . I think that's enough for now. Bill C -----Original Message----- When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Gentlemen and esteemed members of the Pietenpol community I am not ready for my wind screens yet, however with this a golden opportunity to gain insight into what be a daunting task of design I too wou ld like a copy of any plans, patterns or other design device being circulated that would assist, when the time comes. My plans did not include anything remotely resembling a design for a wind screen. Anyone willing to share their copy I would love to have a one if possible and certainly willing to pay for postage and copy costs associated with that. Thanks in advance John Recine NX895BP reserved Building, Scrounging, Buying and Improvising when time permits get my Piet flying! In a message dated 6/4/2008 8:41:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos like that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to inc lude with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they didn 't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I hav e more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year proj ect, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying vario us designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly, I think that's enough for now. Bill C -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Subject: Engines
Is there anyone in esteemed Piet world flying an 0235 engine or anything close to that size and hp rating? I have many questions that can only be answered though experience. Thanks John **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Walt,   Is it possible to scan a copy of your windshield plans and post it on the l ist for others to download? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP   --- On Wed, 6/4/08, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com> wrote: From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild) Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 8:16 AM Gentlemen and esteemed members of the Pietenpol community   I am not ready for my wind screens yet, however with this a golden opportun ity to gain insight into what be a daunting task of design I too would like a copy of any plans, patterns or other design device being circulated that would assist, when the time comes.   My plans did not include anything remotely resembling a design for a wind s creen. Anyone willing to share their copy I would love to have a one if pos sible and certainly willing to pay for postage and copy costs associated wi th that.   Thanks in advance   John Recine NX895BP reserved Building, Scrounging, Buying and Improvising when time permits get my Piet flying!   In a message dated 6/4/2008 8:41:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eng@canadia nrogers.com writes: First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos li ke that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any inf ormation regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to includ e with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they di dn't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I hav e more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year proj ect, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying vari ous designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly,  =85 I think that's enough for now. Bill C   -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.n et> When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tron.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Bill You think designing your own windscreen is a big deal, just wait till you get to design and build your own cowling. Especially if you plan on doing a glass nosebowl of some kind, then you get to learn glass layup, sheet metal cutting/bending, riveting, and 3-D spatial geometry all at the same time. I am also interested in windscreen designs. I think Mike Cuy's is the simples t and what I will try to copy. Rick On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos > like that drive me nuts. > > Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any > information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to > include with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least > they didn't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they > just like Walt more than me. > > Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I > have more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevator s? > I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year > project, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm > having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. > > Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield desig n, > and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying > various designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. > > Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. > > Sixthly, =85 I think that's enough for now. > > Bill C > > -----Original Message----- > > When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, tha t > what I used. > Works well. > Walt Evans > NX140DL > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 04, 2008
http://www.contactmagazine.com/backissu.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Date: Jun 04, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
In my experience, the cowling was a piece of cake compared to making the frames for the three-piece style windshield. But then, my cowling is like Mike Cuy's - all sheet aluminum. I try to avoid fiberglass wherever possible. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild) Bill You think designing your own windscreen is a big deal, just wait till you get to design and build your own cowling. Especially if you plan on doing a glass nosebowl of some kind, then you get to learn glass layup, sheet metal cutting/bending, riveting, and 3-D spatial geometry all at the same time. I am also interested in windscreen designs. I think Mike Cuy's is the simplest and what I will try to copy. Rick On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Bill Church wrote: First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos like that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to include with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they didn't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I have more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year project, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying various designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly, ... I think that's enough for now. Bill C -----Original Message----- When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Jack Any hints on bending the sheet Aluminum to fit? That's what I plan on using also. John In a message dated 6/4/2008 2:59:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes: In my experience, the cowling was a piece of cake compared to making the frames for the three-piece style windshield. But then, my cowling is like Mike Cuy=99s =93 all sheet aluminum. I try to avoid fiberglass wher ever possible. Jack Phillips NX899JP ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild) Bill You think designing your own windscreen is a big deal, just wait till you get to design and build your own cowling. Especially if you plan on doing a glass nosebowl of some kind, then you get to learn glass layup, sheet metal cutting/bending, riveting, and 3-D spatial geometry all at the same time. I am also interested in windscreen designs. I think Mike Cuy's is the simplest a nd what I will try to copy. Rick On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Bill Church <_eng(at)canadianrogers.com_ (mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com) > wrote: First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos like that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to inc lude with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they didn 't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I hav e more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year proj ect, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying vario us designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly, I think that's enough for now. Bill C -----Original Message----- (mailto:waltdak(at)verizon.net) > When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ , proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 164 corvair engine
Date: Jun 04, 2008
What is the price for these motors? Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 164 corvair engine I just got back to Wilmington NC with a 1964 Corvair 110 hp motor that I bought in Lexington NC today. If you are serious about wanting a motor, Barry Owens has plenty of the ones we need for aircraft use or otherwise. here is the information: Barry Owens Cell # 336-250-966 358 Dixon St Lexington NC 27292 hope this may help someone Ted Stone /at work on Pietenpol ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild)
Kenneth, Sure , I can do that. Won't be CAD or anything, but I can scan it on a crosshatch layout, that can be reproduced. I'll get to it now. Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild) Walt, Is it possible to scan a copy of your windshield plans and post it on the list for others to download? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Wed, 6/4/08, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Windshield (was Windshild) To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 8:16 AM Gentlemen and esteemed members of the Pietenpol community I am not ready for my wind screens yet, however with this a golden opportunity to gain insight into what be a daunting task of design I too would like a copy of any plans, patterns or other design device being circulated that would assist, when the time comes. My plans did not include anything remotely resembling a design for a wind screen. Anyone willing to share their copy I would love to have a one if possible and certainly willing to pay for postage and copy costs associated with that. Thanks in advance John Recine NX895BP reserved Building, Scrounging, Buying and Improvising when time permits get my Piet flying! In a message dated 6/4/2008 8:41:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: First off, I just had to correct the spelling in the subject line. Typos like that drive me nuts. Secondly, (unlike Walt) my plans from Don Pietenpol did not include any information regarding windshields. If it is something that they used to include with the plans, they must have discontinued doing it (or at least they didn't do it when I ordered my plans four years ago). Or maybe they just like Walt more than me. Thirdly, since I've had my plans for almost four years now, shouldn't I have more to show than a bunch of ribs and a horizontal stab and elevators? I seem to remember thinking that this was going to be a five-to-ten year project, but at this rate who knows how long it will take. Oh well, I'm having a lot of fun with it whenever I do get a chance to work on it. Fourthly, I'm actually looking forward to figuring out a windshield design, and building it, when I get to that stage. For now, I'm just studying various designs and figuring out what I like and don't like. Fifthly, I'm really looking forward to next Saturday in Brussels. Sixthly, =85 I think that's enough for now. Bill C -----Original Message----- When I ordered my Pietenpol plans, I got a windshield print included, that what I used. Works well. Walt Evans NX140DL href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ron.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Hi, Dick N. has a radial running in his plane, think its about same hp. Chad Wille's aerial has a 6 cyl continental in it. Those are about same size/hp and actually flying. My biplane project has a 125hp Enma Tigre, but its not flying yet and is a metal tube frame GN-1, so not quite the same. What questions are you trying to answer.. seems like the guys in this group are pretty knowlegable. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186287#186287 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Subject: 110hp corvair motors
Like most anything you want to buy is what you are willing to pay, do a little haggling as all things are negotiable. I could not get one as cheap as WW says he can get one . But I think I got one in good shape,free turning at a price I was willing to pay, that I could go pick up with in 200 miles from home. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engines
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Interested in bulkhead and firewall improvments made if any to support the additional torque and hp generated by non traditional engines being the model A by design Also the ultimate prop for climb config on a heavier wide body piet John Yes I know props are fr Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:22:51 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engines Hi, Dick N. has a radial running in his plane, think its about same hp. Chad Wille's aerial has a 6 cyl continental in it. Those are about same size/hp and actually flying. My biplane project has a 125hp Enma Tigre, but its not flying yet and is a metal tube frame GN-1, so not quite the same. What questions are you trying to answer.. seems like the guys in this group are pretty knowlegable. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186287#186287 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Jim I have 2 Piets so there are 2 answers. On my first, the ground plate is behind the rear seat. It is formed and serves as the inspection cover on the bottom of the fuse from the rounded section of plywood floor to the next cross member aft. On the new Piet, the plate is on the floor and is what you step on in front of the rear seat. It also serves as floor stiffiner as some use a steel strap to re enforce the aft landing gear beam. I have a plywood cover inside the cockpit that forms a map holder. It's an idea I borrowed from Mike Cuy. In both cases, the antenna sitts in there right next to the radio. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Lagowski Morrow To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help Dick, many thanks for sharing your experience! I've decided to try the same approach and postpone getting new mags, wiring harness and plugs. Where did you put the antenna and ground plane?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, I took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF antenna. Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground plate, approx 24"x18" I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more that 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lagowski Morrow To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 5/29/2008 7:27 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Radio Help
Date: Jun 04, 2008
Steve You are right and thats how I installed it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help Dick, Could you please clarify your comment on the ground? The antenna shouldn't actually be grounded to a plate, right? What you want to do is attach the coax shielding (the outer braid) to a "ground plane" or plate at the base of the antenna. The antenna itself and the coax center signal wire should be insulated from everything else, particularly the ground plane. That is how I installed my antenna, it is on the bottom of the nose, ~30" behind the prop. It is an 1/8" brass brazing rod, routed through two nylon bushings or "sleeves" that I bought at Home Depot. It all cost me about $4, and I can transmit up to 125 nautical miles air to air. I bought an antenna book from RST Engineering for about $10 I believe. It had good and relatively brief and simple explanations on how to build several very effective antennas for aircraft. The book was very well worth it. I don't see it on their website, but I'm sure you could call or e-mail them about it. Three keys that stick in my mind are 1) have a good ground plane 2) the antenna must be the proper length and 3) keep the tip of the antenna away from other metal parts. http://www.rst-engr.com/ Steve Ruse Quoting Lagowski Morrow : > Dick, many thanks for sharing your experience! I've decided to try the > same approach and postpone getting new mags, wiring harness and plugs. > > Where did you put the antenna and ground plane?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dick Navratil > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > Many others will have great suggestions, but I just went thru this > problem and found 2 things that made a world of difference. First, I > took of the hand held antenna aninstalles a full sized VHF antenna. > Second, I grounded the antenna to a horizontal ground plate, approx > 24"x18" > I went from having so much static that I couldnt communicate more that > 1/2 mi., to hearing traffic 25+ mi out. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lagowski Morrow > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio Help > > > I just learned that I may have a problem communicating from my Piet > that has a 65 Continental with Bendix-Scintilla mags, unshielded wiring > and old time ceramic plugs. My intention was to use my handheld radio > with a plugged in headset. I have been advised that the static will be so > bad that I will basically be unable to communicate. What to do since I > will not fly without being able to transmit and receive clearly. I would > like to avoid the expense of new mags, shielded wiring and new shielded > plugs. I'm about a month away from engine fireup. > > Am I stuck with getting new stuff or is there an alternative(s) out > there?--Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG. > 5/29/2008 7:27 AM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Piet on barnstormers.com
Date: Jun 05, 2008
For what it's worth. Don't know anything about it except what the add says, but there is a 80% complete Piet with an A-65 for $5,500 on barnstormers.com . Indicates it's been built by an A & P. If the A-65 is fresh, it's worth that price alone. Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Jun 05, 2008
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote: > http://www.contactmagazine.com/backissu.html Neat. But man, the purists would be all over your case for that one! -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186350#186350 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 164 corvair engine
Ted, I would highly recomend using the 1966 corvair engine if it is in good shape. Most parts are intercahangable from 1965- 1969, the 1964 is kind of a "bastard" engine. We started with a 1964, and think the later model is much better. Heads are a little "beefier" on the 66. Jugs and heads on 64's must both be 64's, can't mix 64 jugs or heads with 65-69 jugs or heads. Also VERY IMPORTANT!!!, Check the heads and make sure all spark plug holes are clean with no burrs or helicoils!!!! This cost us The 1st engine,(broken crank, and burt piston all 1964 year parts) and a trailer ride home. If any spark plug holes are worn I would recomend sending them to William Wynne's Head guy in wisconsin,I forget his name but I can probably find it for you. I'm no expert on Corvairs, but would hate to see someone else go through the grief, scares, and lessons $$$ we learded the hard way. Even Wynne was supprised at some of the weird symptoms we had with our engine, but when we found out the problems, we let him know so he could forward it on to other builders. Shad NX92GB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: CAD Metal Parts
Would anyone be willing to share their CAD drawings of the Piet metal pieces, for personal use? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: CAD Metal Parts
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Ryan, The difficult part about this is that most builders find that they need (or want) to adjust the metal parts slightly to fit the actual plane that they are building with their hands. So, you may find that metal parts made exactly to the plans don't quite fit properly (or maybe they do). And it is very unlikely that parts taken off one Pietenpol would fit perfectly onto another. Also, many builders have come to realize (thanks largely to Mike Cuy's video) that some of the fittings as drawn are a bit "tight" when it comes to installing fasteners, and can be made much more "user friendly" by extending them slightly. I have not yet made any of my metal parts (other than my tail hinges - and I didn't do those to the plans), so I can't give you what I don't have, but if you have specific parts in mind that you would like CAD files for, let me know, and I could crank out some drawings (based on the original plans) for you. The bulk of the parts are pretty straightforward, so copying them into CAD is easy. Let me know what you're after. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michals Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD Metal Parts Would anyone be willing to share their CAD drawings of the Piet metal pieces, for personal use? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: CAD Metal Parts
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Initially I drew all the metal parts in CAD but I ended up not using the drawings because of fit issues like Bill C. was referring to. I also do not like to send them out because I do not want them to get out in the public domain and have people wast a lot of time and money on fittings that do not fit properly. The best idea is to make the metal bits after you build the parts they attach to. I find it real easy to make simple paper patterns off of the wooden parts. A lot of my fuselage fittings are slightly modified for better edge margins and size. Nothing major just a slight tweak. That being said I'd bet there are a bunch of planes flying with plans fittings. Chris, making elevator control horns in Sacramento -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186383#186383 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Last year at Tracy Crook's rotary engine fly-in down in Bell Florida there was a gentleman with a Mazda derived single rotor engine. He had made a custom casting for one of the end plates. This engine ran very well and produced and estimated 100 HP. I do not recall his name. Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ============================== If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires we fill out a form you will not hear from us. Please do not make your spam problem ours. In a message dated 6/5/2008 8:13:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mjdt(at)auracom.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MikeD" silvius(at)gwi.net wrote: > http://www.contactmagazine.com/backissu.html Neat. But man, the purists would be all over your case for that one! -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186350#186350 **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Chrissi: That would have been Richard Shon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bid9KsuxECA Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine Falconar F-12 w/ NA 1988 13b in progress ----- Original Message ----- From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Last year at Tracy Crook's rotary engine fly-in down in Bell Florida there was a gentleman with a Mazda derived single rotor engine. He had made a custom casting for one of the end plates. This engine ran very well and produced and estimated 100 HP. I do not recall his name. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Chrissi: I believe these are photos of Richard's single rotor engine and parts. Looks like someone with reasonable machine shop skills and equipment should be able to make such an end iron. The last I heard was Richard had sent his rotor and counterweight off to some big rotary racing /aftermarket parts outfit for balancing and they have sat on the project for more than reasonable time. (over six months) without doing anything about it. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Last year at Tracy Crook's rotary engine fly-in down in Bell Florida there was a gentleman with a Mazda derived single rotor engine. He had made a custom casting for one of the end plates. This engine ran very well and produced and estimated 100 HP. I do not recall his name. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Michael, You may want to check that link.... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (9 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone? Chrissi: That would have been Richard Shon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bid9KsuxECA Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine Falconar F-12 w/ NA 1988 13b in progress ----- Original Message ----- From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Last year at Tracy Crook's rotary engine fly-in down in Bell Florida there was a gentleman with a Mazda derived single rotor engine. He had made a custom casting for one of the end plates. This engine ran very well and produced and estimated 100 HP. I do not recall his name. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 05, 2008
A few more photos of Richard's single rotor Mazda 12A Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Last year at Tracy Crook's rotary engine fly-in down in Bell Florida there was a gentleman with a Mazda derived single rotor engine. He had made a custom casting for one of the end plates. This engine ran very well and produced and estimated 100 HP. I do not recall his name. Regards, Chrissi ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Date: Jun 05, 2008
OOOOOOOpppps!!! catchy tune any how!!! LOL Yes, you are right, dont know how that one got there but here is the right link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4P8NeudGGU ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Michael, You may want to check that link.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Subject: Re: rotary engine in a Piet anyone?
Yes, that's the one, thanks Regards, Chrissi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ===== If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires we fill out a form you will not hear from us. Please do not make your spam problem ours. In a message dated 6/5/2008 2:54:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, silvius(at)gwi.net writes: OOOOOOOpppps!!! catchy tune any how!!! LOL Yes, you are right, dont know how that one got there but here is the right link _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4P8NeudGGU_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4P8NeudGGU) ----- Original Message ----- From: _Gary Boothe_ (mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net) Michael, You may want to check that link.. (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Jun 05, 2008
I'm really gunshy about water in my gas because I've heard of so many accidents caused by this. Recently I've been looking at accessories for outboard boat motors and noticed they use "water seperating filters" which look much like a regular oil filter in a similar housing, which could mount on the firewall before the gascolator. Does anyone know how these work, and is it completely redundant since we have sumps and drains in the tank and in the gascolator, or is it a good bit of extra insurance? They weigh a few pounds. Also, I'd really appreciate any input regarding the amount of endurance that seems right? Leaving 30 minutes of fuel in my tank, which is cutting it awefully close for my taste, will give me about two and a half to three hours. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 2008
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Boats have water separators because they have big tanks with no practical way to put a sump in the bottom of them and they also have a tendency to operate in a very wet environment. If you put sumps at the lowest points in your fuel system and drain them before each flight you will get all of the water out and a water separator would just be a redundant part adding weight and another thing in your fuel line with the potential to cause leaks or other problems. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:27:32 -0400 > >I'm really gunshy about water in my gas because I've heard of so many >accidents caused by this. Recently I've been looking at accessories for >outboard boat motors and noticed they use "water seperating filters" which >look much like a regular oil filter in a similar housing, which could mount >on the firewall before the gascolator. > >Does anyone know how these work, and is it completely redundant since we >have sumps and drains in the tank and in the gascolator, or is it a good bit >of extra insurance? They weigh a few pounds. > >Also, I'd really appreciate any input regarding the amount of endurance that >seems right? Leaving 30 minutes of fuel in my tank, which is cutting it >awefully close for my taste, will give me about two and a half to three >hours. > >Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Date: Jun 05, 2008
Brian The basic requirement is that there is a sump at the low point of the system. On one plane a few years ago I installed a in line fuel filter and the DAR had me remove it because it could clog and cut off fuel. I see the same potential problem with a fuel water seperator for a boat. I have one of these on my boat and I have had the engine shut down because of clogs. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: > > > Boats have water separators because they have big tanks with no practical > way to put a sump in the bottom of them and they also have a tendency to > operate in a very wet environment. > > If you put sumps at the lowest points in your fuel system and drain them > before each flight you will get all of the water out and a water separator > would just be a redundant part adding weight and another thing in your > fuel line with the potential to cause leaks or other problems. > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:27:32 -0400 > >> >> >>I'm really gunshy about water in my gas because I've heard of so many >>accidents caused by this. Recently I've been looking at accessories for >>outboard boat motors and noticed they use "water seperating filters" which >>look much like a regular oil filter in a similar housing, which could >>mount >>on the firewall before the gascolator. >> >>Does anyone know how these work, and is it completely redundant since we >>have sumps and drains in the tank and in the gascolator, or is it a good >>bit >>of extra insurance? They weigh a few pounds. >> >>Also, I'd really appreciate any input regarding the amount of endurance >>that >>seems right? Leaving 30 minutes of fuel in my tank, which is cutting it >>awefully close for my taste, will give me about two and a half to three >>hours. >> >>Douwe >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Barber Field Fly-In
Don, Are you still planning on going to the fly-in at barber this Saturday? I am still planning on leaving here at7-7:30 weather permitting. I hope to be there by 9am and will stay a couple hours, and try to beat the thunderstorm build up in the afternoon, and head home. Do you know if they are serving breakfast? See you tommorow Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Water in the gas (was no subject)
Date: Jun 06, 2008
The water separating filters for boats are usually aimed at diesel fuel systems. Check before use to ensure they'd be compatible with gasoline. Most boats don't have sump drain valves that an operator can actually access. If it were me, I'd not install one. Make sure that your fuel vent, the fuel caps and any fuel quantity sensor (e.g., Cub wire on a float) do not permit water to get into the tank. All those are possible entry points. You could do worse than find a Cessna's fuel system diagram and duplicate it. The amount of fuel that's "right" is based on your bladder, which will easily tell you when to land. You want more fuel than that. If you plan to use the plane as a real cross-country airplane then you want more fuel yet, so that you can go somewhere in the back country and fly back out to a fuel stop. I don't have a Pietenpol. My plane is a Cessna Skywagon, and it has about four hours fuel. This is marginal; I'd be more comfortable with six. My bladder is good for about three. I do carry a pee bottle. I have had this plane for more than twenty years. I have rarely had water in my fuel. I drain the fuel tanks and the sump, of course, and have had both tanks replaced or drained for other maintenance, with no water found. David Paule ======= Douwe wrote - I'm really gunshy about water in my gas because I've heard of so many accidents caused by this. Recently I've been looking at accessories for outboard boat motors and noticed they use "water seperating filters" which look much like a regular oil filter in a similar housing, which could mount on the firewall before the gascolator. Does anyone know how these work, and is it completely redundant since we have sumps and drains in the tank and in the gascolator, or is it a good bit of extra insurance? They weigh a few pounds. Also, I'd really appreciate any input regarding the amount of endurance that seems right? Leaving 30 minutes of fuel in my tank, which is cutting it awefully close for my taste, will give me about two and a half to three hours. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Barber Field Fly-In
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2008
Hey Shad, Well I'm getting a little discouraged by the line of thunderbumpers moving our way. It looks like they are calling for a good chance of them by 8 or 9 in the morning. I'm thinking I may skip church, er have church in the airplane, and head over on Sunday. Sunday seems to look better for the thunderstorms. I think Skip was planning to go then too. What do you think? Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186556#186556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: inline fuel filters
Date: Jun 06, 2008
Hey, I have seen, and was planning on placing a small inline fuel filter on each of my lines leaving the tank where I could see them, as added insurance. Dick N. said his DAR made him remove these, though I have seen them on others. Has anyone else tried using these? Douwe ps, thanks Dick for your word of caution, I'd hate to have to redo my fuel system!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: inline fuel filters
Date: Jun 06, 2008
Douwe, I owned and flew an Avid for a number of years that I placed clear in-line filters in the line from the wing tanks. I placed them at eye level so I could clearly seem them. Never had a problem but changed them twice a year anyway. Also, I had a written preflight list that I followed and they were on the list to check. I don't have them on my Piet because I wouldn't be able to see them in flight. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tubing size for shoulder harness assys.
What diameter and wall thickness are you all using in the steel tubing to fabricate the PILOT shoulder harness? And, similar question for the PASSENGER shoulder harness, for those of you using something like the UK design? I have the pictures and the descriptions already. Now I am trying to have enough strength of materials to stop even half my flabby upper body in a worst case. Thanks, Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Barber Field Fly-In
I will have to wait untill the morning to find out what I will do. Not sure what the wife has planned for me on sunday. Let me know if your going via email in the morning, and I can decide. 100 miles in a piet, dodging T-Storms can be a hell of a trip, and I'd rather not fill the cockpit with water, tear up the airplane, or poop my pants, so I will decide in the morning after a good look at the radar. If you and Skipp are going on Sunday I can hold out untill then and meet you up there. Skipp if you get this let me know if you want to meet up at Chapman Memorial and fly up togeather sunday morning. Shad Don Emch wrote: Hey Shad, Well I'm getting a little discouraged by the line of thunderbumpers moving our way. It looks like they are calling for a good chance of them by 8 or 9 in the morning. I'm thinking I may skip church, er have church in the airplane, and head over on Sunday. Sunday seems to look better for the thunderstorms. I think Skip was planning to go then too. What do you think? Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186556#186556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Barber Field Fly-In
Date: Jan 06, 2003
Shad, Current plans are to leave Hales Landing tomorrow morning as soon as the fog clears, about 8:AM, maybe 7:30. Chapman is kind of a long way out of the way for me, so I guess I will just head north and try to show up at Barber at 9:30 or 10:00. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: 6/6/2008 10:38:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Barber Field Fly-In I will have to wait untill the morning to find out what I will do. Not sure what the wife has planned for me on sunday. Let me know if your going via email in the morning, and I can decide. 100 miles in a piet, dodging T-Storms can be a hell of a trip, and I'd rather not fill the cockpit with water, tear up the airplane, or poop my pants, so I will decide in the morning after a good look at the radar. If you and Skipp are going on Sunday I can hold out untill then and meet you up there. Skipp if you get this let me know if you want to meet up at Chapman Memorial and fly up togeather sunday morning. Shad Don Emch wrote: Hey Shad, Well I'm getting a little discouraged by ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Skipp, Barber Field Fly-In
Skip, I was wondering if you were going up to Barber on Sunday. I saw your post but it was dated January 7, 2003 for some reason. Was not sure if you were going on Sat or sun, I asume Sunday I remember you saying you had a picknic at Hale's on Sat. I will see you and Don tommorow, Have a fun and safe flight. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 07, 2008
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: First Flight
Just a quick note that N421GN made its first flight this morning at Brown Field in San Diego. Long fuselage, powered by a Continental C-75. Got the plans in April 1999. Many thanks to Sparky (Manuel Sparks) for making the first flight and making it look good. Just a few adjustments, then I'm looking forward to many more flights to come. Gene Hubbard San Diego ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Jun 08, 2008
Gene, Well done! Hope they all go well. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Hubbard Sent: Sunday, 8 June 2008 4:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight Just a quick note that N421GN made its first flight this morning at Brown Field in San Diego. Long fuselage, powered by a Continental C-75. Got the plans in April 1999. Many thanks to Sparky (Manuel Sparks) for making the first flight and making it look good. Just a few adjustments, then I'm looking forward to many more flights to come. Gene Hubbard San Diego ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: First Flight
Date: Jun 08, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gene Hubbard's first flight
Date: Jun 08, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Excellent news Gene----you've kept at it for many years and you didn't sell your project, you didn't let go of the dream and now is your big PAYOFF time ! Enjoy it !!! Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Have to share my morning
Went up this morning to scope out a stream for a kyacking friend of mine. Also threw in a shot, all of the builders dream about, and the flyers never get used to seeing. Then my friend took the landing Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Have to share my morning
Date: Jun 08, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Fantastic shot of your landing Walt !!!!!!!!! That's a magazine cover in my book.... Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: First Flight
Gene, Congratulations!! This is a feeling you'll never forget. Thumbs up!!!! Walt Evans NX140DL "Let's Legalize Freedom" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hubbard" <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 2:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Flight > > > Just a quick note that N421GN made its first flight this morning at Brown > Field in San Diego. Long fuselage, powered by a Continental C-75. Got > the plans in April 1999. Many thanks to Sparky (Manuel Sparks) for making > the first flight and making it look good. Just a few adjustments, then > I'm looking forward to many more flights to come. > > Gene Hubbard > San Diego > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Have to share my morning
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 08, 2008
Hey Walt, I wish my morning flight was as enjoyable as yours looked. It was so rough on mine I thought I was going to puke! What is that thing mounted on your cabane and diagonal strut? Isn't that 'golden hour' in the early, early morning the best time?! Don E. in windy, bumpy Ohio Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186808#186808 ________________________________________________________________________________


May 19, 2008 - June 08, 2008

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gr