Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ld

March 27, 2012 - April 15, 2012



      > Shelley made the cushions. We used the high-dollar
      > foam from aircraft spruce and she bought a cow-hide off ebay
      > and used it to make both seat cushions and the coaming,
      > similar to what Jack described. Also similar to Jack,
      > she layered the various densities to make the cushions more
      > comfortable. I believe the cushions are 2".
      > 
      > In the back: the bottom cushion takes up almost the whole
      > seat bottom and is not secured by anything but my
      > butt. That has never, ever created a problem. It
      > does not move. My back rest cushion is a neck pillow
      > that she covered in duck cloth of an appropriate color (same
      > fabric as the cockpit covers). BTW: The duck cloth on
      > the cockpit covers shrinks and the red trim bleeds color
      > when wet. 
      > 
      > In the front: she made a cushion that takes up the tiny seat
      > bottom. Even with the high-dollar foam people get
      > uncomfortable up there pretty quick.
      > 
      > My record day was 500 miles and that's pretty tiring.
      > The seat cushion was not a problem, though. As you may
      > be aware, the trips from Texas to Brodhead are 3 days each
      > way and I fly a lot while at Brodhead.
      > 
      > Hope this helps.
      > 
      > --------
      > Kevin "Axel" Purtee
      > NX899KP
      > Austin/San Marcos, TX
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > Read this topic online here:
      > 
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369409#369409
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > Email Forum -
      > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
      > List Contribution Web Site -
      >        -Matt
      > Dralle, List Admin.
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: hand help radio question
Date: Mar 27, 2012
Hey Douwe I'm at SNF and went radio shopping today. The best deals that I have found at this point are from the following; I Com A-14 from Gulf Coast Avionics $185 I Com A-6 from Gulf Coast Avionics for $185 Vertex 220 From Gulf Coast Avionics for $169 Later Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand help radio question I believe I've asked this a while back, but lost it, so accept my apologies. Two questions. 1.. what handheld radio should I purchase. Something simple just to communicate. 2.. Is your radio range acceptable or should I look into adding an external antennae of some kind. Thanks! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: hand help radio question
Hey Douwe, I have the ICOM A6 with an antenna back in the fuse. I like it a nd it gets good reception but it is not user friendly . I have to get the m anual to figure out what I am doing. Gardiner --- On Tue, 3/27/12, Dick N wrote: From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand help radio question Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 8:10 PM =0A=0A =0A =0A _filtered #yiv1904500884 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} =0A#yiv1904500884 P.yiv1904500884MsoNormal {=0AMARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMI LY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;}=0A#yiv1904500884 LI.yiv1904500884MsoN ormal {=0AMARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;} =0A#yiv1904500884 DIV.yiv1904500884MsoNormal {=0AMARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FA MILY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;}=0A#yiv1904500884 A:link {=0ACOLOR:b lue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv1904500884 SPAN.yiv1904500884MsoHyper link {=0ACOLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv1904500884 A:visited {=0ACOLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv1904500884 SPAN.yiv19045 00884MsoHyperlinkFollowed {=0ACOLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#y iv1904500884 SPAN.yiv1904500884EmailStyle17 {=0AFONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMI LY:Arial;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none;}=0A#yiv1 904500884 DIV.yiv1904500884Section1 {=0A}=0A#yiv1904500884 OL {=0AMARGIN-BO TTOM:0in;}=0A#yiv1904500884 UL {=0AMARGIN-BOTTOM:0in;}=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2-=0A Hey Douwe=0AI'm at SNF and went radio shopping today.=C2- The =0Abest dea ls that I have found at this point are from the following;=0AI Com A-14 fro m Gulf Coast Avionics =0A$185=0AI Com A-6 from Gulf Coast Avionics for =0A$ 185=0AVertex 220 From Gulf Coast Avionics for =0A$169=0ALater=0ADick N=0A =C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: =0A Douwe B lumberg =0A To: pietenpolgroup =0A Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:30 =0AA M=0A Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand help radio =0A question=0A =0A =0A I believe I=99ve asked this a while =0A back, but lost it, so accept my apologies. =0A =C2- =0A Two =0A questions =0A =C2- =0A =0A what handheld =0A radio should I purchase.=C2- So mething simple just to =0A communicate. =0A Is your radio =0A rang e acceptable or should I look into adding an external antennae of some =0A kind. =0A =C2- =0A Thanks! =0A =C2- =0A Douwe =0A =C2- =0A =C2-=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics. ===============0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material
If you are all wondering what an IT girl looks like, here's a photo I took last summer when she and Kevin were in McPherson. 8>) Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> "IT Girl" 3/28/2012 8:20 AM >>> Hi Douwe, My 2 cents. The front seat, based on the plans has very little if any angle in the seat back, and is just not designed to be comfortable. The seat itself is only about 11" wide? at best and the passenger and seat cushion must stay clear of the pilots feet. We have put a lot of time, energy, and money into cushions to make that seat more comfortable for me and the only real secret is short flights. I cannot take 6 hour days in the front seat. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: hand help radio question
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Another vote for the Icom radios... although I have also heard good things about the Vertex line... makers of Yeasu products. Quick story, and nothing about getting the most out of your radio or any of that boring stuff... LOL! I was flying the first leg of my long cross-country several years ago from Tulsa to Springfield, MO. On my solo training flights I always carried my flight bag, to include handheld radio and GPS, just in case I got turned around. So, I'm flying along and getting near Springfield... as I reach up to tune the old radio to listen to traffic, the knob slips right off into my fingers! I thought, no biggie, I'll just slip it back on and then keep it handy for whenever I need to change freqs, but when I looked at the knob I noticed that there was no flat, just a round shaft and a set screw! What a terrible design, especially for an airplane radio! So, I was out of luck on using the panel radio. The only thing that kept me from having to use light signals to land was my Icom A-22. I grabbed it and the Y-adapter from my bag, hooked it up and was able to contact Springfield approach loud and clear about 10 miles out. I just threw the HT on the dash and pressed on with the rest of my flight... my next stop was Chanute, KS and then back home to Tulsa. The A-22 worked fine just sitting on the dash... no ground plane, no feedline issues, just the ol rubber duckie... Ha! Yes, I'm just being a smart aleck. No, this is not how I'll use it in the Piet. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369469#369469 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Subject: ignition noise when using radios (nothing about antennas--I
PROMISE!) As long as we are talking radios, I use an Icom A-5 and it works really well. I have unshielded wiring on my spark plug wires so the radio picks up the 'buzz' noise of the engine firing. An old trick my Champ buddy Joe Tomasic told me wayyyy back was to switch to one mag and throttle back some when wanting to listen or transmit as it cuts the plug noise in half. Have used that method for years and years--works fine. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Inst. Panel design
My full IFR panel. I still think I have too many instruments.....=0A=0ASant iago ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inst. Panel design
From: Brett Phillips <bphillip(at)shentel.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Santiago: It's beautiful! I really like your slip/skid inclinometer. Please tell me m ore about it. Brett Phillips On Mar 28, 2012, at 12:48 PM, santiago morete w rote: > My full IFR panel. I still think I have too many instruments..... > > Santiago > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Inst. Panel design
Nice. Oil pressure and temperature go... where? Dan On 03/28/2012 11:48 AM, santiago morete wrote: > My full IFR panel. I still think I have too many instruments..... > > Santiago ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Inst. Panel design
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Here is mine, compass goes in the top center hole. Slip indicator goes on the bottom center. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369479#369479 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2034_577.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Subject: Re: ignition noise when using radios (nothing about antennas--I
PROMISE!)
From: Andrew Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
Are your p-leads shielded? I've encountered the "buzz" but performance is still marginal even with shielded ignition wires. I'm looking at using shielded leads to see if that can get me into an operable situation. Andrew On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: > AEROSPACE CORP]" > > As long as we are talking radios, I use an Icom A-5 and it works > really well. > > I have unshielded wiring on my spark plug wires so the radio picks up > the 'buzz' noise of the engine firing. > > An old trick my Champ buddy Joe Tomasic told me wayyyy back was to switch > to one mag and throttle back some when wanting to listen or transmit as it > cuts the plug noise in half. > > Have used that method for years and years--works fine. > > Mike C. > > -- Andrew Eldredge Provo, UT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: ignition noise when using radios (nothing about antennas--I
PROMISE!)
Date: Mar 28, 2012
I have an A-24 and an A-14. I like them both. I use the A-14 more because it is very small and simple to use. I velcro it to the inside of the fuselage. (FYI, JoAnn Fabrics has a great supply of Velcro in sheets and rolls. I also Velcro my iPhone to the instrument panel for navigation and when necessary, attach an intercom next to the radio.) However the A-24 came with the headset adapter and when I bought my A-14 it did not. When I purchased another of those the price was approaching what I paid for the A-24. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:32 PM, Andrew Eldredge wrote: > Are your p-leads shielded? I've encountered the "buzz" but performance is still marginal even with shielded ignition wires. I'm looking at using shielded leads to see if that can get me into an operable situation. > > Andrew > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP] wrote: AEROSPACE CORP]" > > As long as we are talking radios, I use an Icom A-5 and it works > really well. > > I have unshielded wiring on my spark plug wires so the radio picks up > the 'buzz' noise of the engine firing. > > An old trick my Champ buddy Joe Tomasic told me wayyyy back was to switch > to one mag and throttle back some when wanting to listen or transmit as it > cuts the plug noise in half. > > Have used that method for years and years--works fine. > > Mike C. > > > > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > -- > Andrew Eldredge > Provo, UT > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fuel Tank Finished
Attached are pictures of my finished fuel tank. With the help of a friend, we fabricated the tank out of- .032" 5052 aluminum. Another post of mine includes pictures showing the tank baffles inside.- The tank was welded a nd pressure tested to about 3 PSI by Greg Klemp, who was mentioned in the f irst BPA newsletter this year. - The tank as pictured with filler neck, cap and finger strainer weighs 6.5lb s.- Next I will find out how many gallons it will hold and start the inst all. and fuel line hook-up. - Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Fuel Tank Finished
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Looks great Michael...... beautiful welding job! Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 3:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Tank Finished Attached are pictures of my finished fuel tank. With the help of a friend, we fabricated the tank out of .032" 5052 aluminum. Another post of mine includes pictures showing the tank baffles inside. The tank was welded and pressure tested to about 3 PSI by Greg Klemp, who was mentioned in the first BPA newsletter this year. The tank as pictured with filler neck, cap and finger strainer weighs 6.5lbs. Next I will find out how many gallons it will hold and start the install. and fuel line hook-up. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
From: aircamperace(at)yahoo.com
Date: Mar 28, 2012
Nice Job. Any chance you'll be sharing the plans or will they be in the next video? Ryan Sent from my iPhone On Mar 28, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Attached are pictures of my finished fuel tank. With the help of a friend, we fabricated the tank out of .032" 5052 aluminum. Another post of mine in cludes pictures showing the tank baffles inside. The tank was welded and pr essure tested to about 3 PSI by Greg Klemp, who was mentioned in the first B PA newsletter this year. > > The tank as pictured with filler neck, cap and finger strainer weighs 6.5l bs. Next I will find out how many gallons it will hold and start the instal l. and fuel line hook-up. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material
Hey Tom . that is a gross pic for such pleasant and nice looking lady as Kevins' It Girl. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 9:50:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: talk to me about seat cushion material If you are all wondering what an IT girl looks like, here's a photo I took last summer when she and Kevin were in McPherson. 8>) Tom Stinemetze N328X >>> "IT Girl" 3/28/2012 8:20 AM >>> Hi Douwe, My 2 cents. The front seat, based on the plans has very little if any angle in the seat back, and is just not designed to be comfortable. The seat itself is only about 11" wide? at best and the passenger and seat cushion must stay clear of the pilots feet. We have put a lot of time, energy, and money into cushions to make that seat more comfortable for me and the only real secret is short flights. I cannot take 6 hour days in the front seat. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: hand help radio question
Date: Mar 28, 2012
I bought an A14 and in attempting to put some frequencies in memory screwed it up so bad dealing with the silly instructions I almost threw the thing across the room. Stayed my hand though, with extreme difficulty!! Ah, but then I went to Utube and found a whole flock of instruction vids on the various functions including the memory stuff. The guy made it so easy a two year old could do it. A few minutes of work I have twelve frequencies in the memory! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D2lJUoIjlw I tell you! this is NOT like the written instructions!!! Clif "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." ~Johann Sebastian Bach Hey Douwe, I have the ICOM A6 with an antenna back in the fuse. I like it and it gets good reception but it is not user friendly . I have to get the manual to figure out what I am doing. Gardiner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: talk to me about seat cushion material
Date: Mar 28, 2012
OK, now here's a topic that is going to generate some lively discussion! First off, I agree completely with Axel: get temperfoam, get the various densities to build up a custom cushion that is shaped to your backside, and don't spare any expense. If you don't plan to make long flights, then don't give it another thought- you could just put bare plywood down and be OK, or toss a cheapo throw pillow or stadium cushion in there and be just fine. Just don't expect that to work if you'll be flying your airplane cross-country. Definition of x-c in a Piet: anything more than a 0.5 hr. entry in your logbook. Front and rear seats are two entirely different topics. Rear seat is PIC's. If you will fly an hour or two at a time, it won't matter what you do for your seat. If you're a serious flyer, it will. Scout has a full-size seat cushion in the rear cockpit, naugahyde over foam over plywood, and it's OK for puttering around the pattern but not for anything over 30 minutes. I have put various types of cushions on top of the seat for longer flights, everything from the Walmart cushions for bar stools to the flotation cushions from boats, and they all are OK for shorter flights but not for hours at a time and not for x-c. Plus, when I put supplemental cushions in there, I raise my face into the airstream so I prefer not to do that so I can stay behind the windscreen. My problem is that I am a 150lb. guy and in the Piet, all my weight is on the tailbones and there isn't anything there to cushion those two hard points. You have to get in the airplane and fly it x-c to see what will work for you, but craft store cheapo foam stuff won't do it but you won't know until you go for a longer flight. Next point: back rests, front or back cockpits: you could have iron scraps there, or bananas- it doesn't matter because you'll never be sitting back for very long. At least I don't find myself leaning back against the back rest for very long. And I've flown both front and rear cockpits for hours at a time. In the back as PIC and in the front as navigator, with charts. Next point: the front seat. it's not very large. If you'll just be giving rides, your passengers won't know if they are on a soft cushion or a hard one, or if there is a cushion at all. They will be so psyched on the flight itself that they won't know what they sat on or anything else unless it has to do with their experience out of the cockpit. If you build it to plans, there is no cushion on the front seat. Kids won't care in the slightest. Final comment: the padding on the pilot's seat bottom is one of the most important factors in how comfortable you will be flying your Piet for extended periods, and you won't know that until you fly it for an extended period. Don't spend a lot of money on the first try, because chances are, the first time you fly an extended x-c you'll want to change it. After 2 hrs. in the air in Scout, I'm ready for a break and I have determined that after numerous extended flights. I need some Temperfoam but I'm willing to endure almost anything just so I can fly my airplane. There is nothing else like it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New fuel tank started
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Well, I am in Poplar Grove for 1-1/2 weeks, working on my beloved Piet 24/7 . I have decided to start over and fabricate a new fuel tank. The first one was all individual panels, no baffles, butt- welded at the edges, and to q uote those fateful words of Jack Phillips, from a post a few months ago, "p lan for it to fail". ....It split open twice already even after I had the r epairs done by professional welders. I have educated myself better on fuel tank design and I hope this new one will be better. I have incorporated ben ds whenever possible and included many areas of "geometry" to stiffen the a reas especially adjacent to the edge welds. Here are a few photos. Dan Helsper Sitting in McDonalds at Belvidere IL since I have no TV or Internet here an ymore. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
Ryan, I don't have plans, really, I had some scratches on paper, but that i s long gone. What I do have is my original poster board template. I more then likely will have a fuel system video which will have all the ta nk pictures/video that I have on fuel tank fabrication.- However, if you would like to know more now, or anytime, I can help you.- I'd be happy to share with you what I can. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bungee cord "dams"
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2012
"Forget the intrusion good people" Tackling another problem when I am here. I can finally re-assemble my axle with the new bungee cords. Here is a photo of the "dams" that have been add ed in order to keep the cords from getting pinched in amongst the various p arts down there. I think it must have been a function of my particular land ing gear, the last bungees only lasted about 10 flight hours. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bungee cord "dams"
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Photo here. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: One more try..."dams"
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2012
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: New fuel tank started
Looks nice Dan. I see some good ideas in the photos. I doubt this one will give you many, if any, trouble once welded. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Subject: new fuel tank
Looks like very nice work Mike and you should hold somewhere near 17 gallo ns because of how similar our nose tanks are in shape and size. That's a perfect amount of fuel and it helps with CG issues too. You'll be very happy with that tank. A tank that size will take the worry out of stopping for fuel before you're ready on a long cross country or give you some options if you land and you find no fuel is availa ble. Good for weather deviations too to have that amount of fuel. Congratulations on making one more step to having completed your own airpla ne! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: new fuel tank
Thanks Mike. I spent lots of time with my poster board making the mock up t o fit in the nose just as I wanted it. Then Steve in the hangar and I spent a lot more time duplicating the templates into actual aluminum parts, with the correct bends, angles, etc.- It is mildly hard to believe that is is finally finished. -If I can get my engine work done sooner then later, (in work as I type) I MAY be able to do an engine run prior to winter.- Besides working on th e engine, I will be gearing up to make my engine mount next. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: new fuel tank
I hear that Kevin, maybe I should consider an axillary tank... Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: new fuel tank
Guess I'll need two then... Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: New fuel tank started
Dan, that tank sure looks good. How in the world did you form it? Is it made from galvanized or aluminium? Your tank looks just like parts we used to hydroform at Boeing. Good job. Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Inst. Panel design
Thanks Brett! It's just a regular aircraft inclinometer. I removed the glas s tube from the original cheap plastic case, and mounted it on a brass plat e. The little brass cylinders that holds the glass tube are glued with epox i to the plate.=0ADan, oil pressure and temperature gauges will be mounted on each side of the radiator, or front cabanes....don't know yet.-Saludos =0A=0A=0ASantiago ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Michael, I will be in Holmes County for a few days next month. Are you close to that area? I would like to stop by and see your project. John -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369558#369558 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: New fuel tank started
No not vacuum bagging; thats a Markle specialty. We had a 200 ton press that formed alumimium, fingers and whatever got in its way into the shape of the hydro block dies that were attached to the press. Boy would it ever make great Piet cowlings, and metal parts; probably a little overkill. Jim B. PS We had to have both hands in special switch enclos ures to prevent finger and hand forming at the same time we made parts. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: a wing is beginning to take shape
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Finally=2C I've gotten a start on the wings. My almost 6 year old son and I will be working on it together - should be fun if I can keep him interest ed and following directions. He's stoked about going to Brodhead this year and seeing real planes that have wings like the ones he's building. Here's a shot of it last night after I shaped the rear spar.. I couldn't r esist stringing the ribs up and getting an idea of how space I'll lose in m y shop. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
From: aircamperace(at)yahoo.com
Date: Mar 29, 2012
I have a little ways to go but I may take you up on that offer when ready. I t did look really nice, and a good size too. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 29, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Ryan, I don't have plans, really, I had some scratches on paper, but that i s long gone. What I do have is my original poster board template. > > I more then likely will have a fuel system video which will have all the t ank pictures/video that I have on fuel tank fabrication. However, if you wo uld like to know more now, or anytime, I can help you. I'd be happy to shar e with you what I can. > > Michael Perez > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
Subject: Re: a wing is beginning to take shape
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Tom, Congratulations. I'm hoping to finish my wings this next week. As the attached photo shows, I chose to build the wings in a vertical position. Saved a lot of room. And it was easy to flip the wing over or around whenever I needed access to the top, the bottom, the trailing edge, or leading edge. I used a very simple wing rotating device comprised of my 18 year old son, Kevin, at one end and me at the other. Cheers, Ken On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 5:26 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote : > Finally, I've gotten a start on the wings.- My almost 6 year old son an d I > will be working on it together - should be fun if I can keep him interest ed > and following directions.- He's stoked about going to Brodhead this yea r and > seeing real planes that have wings like the ones he's building. > > Here's a shot of it last night after I shaped the rear spar..- I couldn 't > resist stringing the ribs up and getting an idea of how space I'll lose i n > my shop. > > Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2012
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
=0A=0AOK all....- The plans for the upcoming 4th annual West Coast Pieten pol Gathering have been finalized with our host Charlie Miller and I'm atta ching the information sheet as a PDF document. Come out and join us, we hav e a great time.=0A=0ADate: June 2, 2012=0A=0ALocation:- Frazier Lake Airp ark - 1C9 (www.frazierlake.com) -It's a grass strip near Hollister Californ ia.- =0A(If flying in, beware of the parallel water runway.- 23W/5W)=0A =0A=0AMike Groah ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: New fuel tank started
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 30, 2012
I am learning a lot about this tank stuff, mostly as I go along making mist akes. I have to make my major panel over again. I apparently got to zealous with my groove-forming tool (rivet gun) and work-hardened it and formed a crack. Started to weld the crack shut then just decided to discard it and s tart over. Drat!! I am going to design a plastic insert for the flow-formin g tool to do the work this time instead of the steel one I used. As soon as I get time I will post a complete detailed explanation with phot os of my saga. But I am having more fun than a barrel of monkeys playing ar ound with this stuff! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: progress report
Date: Mar 30, 2012
Antenna is ordered, found Mikee's on Ebay for half price. Foam is ordered, and on it's way for pillows. Gotta get Marci up to speed with the sewing machine now. I've decided to make the foam pillows, then sew the cover so it fits around one side and snaps to the airframe around the perimeter to keep things from moving around. I'm going to use canvas painters tarps for an old historical (hysterical??) look. Spent the last two days sanding the fiberglass cowling and finally got it remounted last night, VERY exciting!! Still have lots of details on that cowling, but it's coming. Maybe another week or so before that's done. Then some niggling detail things while the last major ACS order arrives of Dacron and dope and I can start covering the eppanage and fuse. Doing a "mock antique doped linen" finish with a color trim of latex, so I don't anticipate the painting taking too long. Just have to remember that stupid "hiddin" knot rib stitch I used to be so familiar with. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
John, Holmes County is about 1.5 hrs. south of me. If you are willing to ma ke the drive up, that would be great!- I don't believe I have much going on in April. Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Finished
No problem, just let me know when you are ready. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aircamping
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 30, 2012
Got back from Sun N Fun today. Packed a tent, folding chair, and tiedowns in the wing center section and put the duffel in the front seat. I camped with Skip Gadd and Dick Navratil and was adopted by their group of woodworking v olunteers. I doubt I'll fly in there again, but I'm glad I can cross it off m u "bucket list" Ben Charvet Sent from my iPhone

      
      
      
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Date: Mar 30, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Aircamping
Ben, your piet was inverted. Don't give up on air camping. Consider camping out with us at Tripple Tree Aerodrome i South Carolina rig]ht after Labor Day. Last year it was a blast. Google it and you will be amased at what they have to offer. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, March 30, 2012 7:34:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircamping Got back from Sun N Fun today. Packed a tent, folding chair, and tiedowns in the wing center section and put the duffel in the front seat. I camped with Skip Gadd and Dick Navratil and was adopted by their group of woodworking volunteers. I doubt I'll fly in there again, but I'm glad I can cross it off mu "bucket list" Ben Charvet Sent from my iPhone

      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      
      
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      
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From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Aircamping
Date: Mar 30, 2012
Was SNF at the South Pole this year? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircamping Got back from Sun N Fun today. Packed a tent, folding chair, and tiedowns in the wing center section and put the duffel in the front seat. I camped with Skip Gadd and Dick Navratil and was adopted by their group of woodworking volunteers. I doubt I'll fly in there again, but I'm glad I can cross it off mu "bucket list" Ben Charvet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Sent from my iPhone >

      >
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      > 
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Date: Mar 30, 2012
Subject: Re: Question for Mark Roberts about fuselage
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hi John: My apologies for the lateness of this post, as I have not been keeping up with the list this week due to work... Yes, these were built to the Kerri-Ann Price plans. I liked them, and they were very complete. I had already built that side of the fuse and went back to make the adjustments. I would recommend the plans as the door is a very nice addition and my wife like's it (read that: she gives me money to buy parts for the plane... :o) Mark On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:44 AM, John Fay wrote: > Mark, > > I'm behind on my email and just read your March 7th post, with the picture > of your fuselage (with your wife sitting in the front cockpit). I notice > you have added a door on the right side. Did you engineer that yourself, > or did you by the plans from Kerry Price? (name-spelling?) > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aircamping
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2012
It was held in Australia this year. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369695#369695 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nice Jungmann photo!
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Ah, but it IS Piet related. I think Shad Bell is working on a Bucker and he's a Piet guy (or a Grega guy, at least). And there's your connection. At any rate, I think there is always something to be learned by closely examining good clear photos of airplanes. Some detail, some connection, some finish, or arrangement, or trim. This beautiful photo has lots to learn from. Oh, and it's got SMOKE, too!!! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369696#369696 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Aircamping Re-send
It really was held in Florida. Its amazing I can manage to keep the Piet upright, but somehow post at least 3 different pictures upside down. Hope this one works. Ben PS. The i-phone takes great pictures, but does unpredictable things with them. On 3/31/2012 12:29 PM, taildrags wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" > > It was held in Australia this year. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC"Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369695#369695 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nice Jungmann photo!
From: dog67(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Thanks Oscar ;) We had a lot of fun shooting these pic's. If the weather god's cooprate, I hope to have more chances to shoot Piets t his summer at Brodhead. Cheers Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 31, 2012 10:32 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nice Jungmann photo! Ah, but it IS Piet related. I think Shad Bell is working on a Bucker and h e's a iet guy (or a Grega guy, at least). And there's your connection. At any rate, I think there is always something to be learned by closely xamining good clear photos of airplanes. Some detail, some connection, som e inish, or arrangement, or trim. This beautiful photo has lots to learn fro m. h, and it's got SMOKE, too!!! -------- scar Zuniga edford, OR ir Camper NX41CC "Scout" 75 power ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369696#369696 -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Subject: Windscreen options
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
I got these1941"Fleet Airplane"windscreens--thinkit'l'work? Also look at my sweet "65" engine ready to work -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cockpit Combing
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Ben, Do you have a website where I could access pictures of how you did your cockpit combing? Gary from Cool -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircamping Re-send It really was held in Florida. Its amazing I can manage to keep the Piet upright, but somehow post at least 3 different pictures upside down. Hope this one works. Ben PS. The i-phone takes great pictures, but does unpredictable things with them. On 3/31/2012 12:29 PM, taildrags wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" > > It was held in Australia this year. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC"Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369695#369695 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2012
One of the great things about building an experimental airplanes is that you can demonstrate certain ideas and concepts. Turnbuckles are critical safety items, but I believe that there is a way to duplicate the function of an aviation grade turnbuckle by using all aircraft grade parts for a fraction of the cost and the satisfaction of overcoming a design problem. The picture below is somthing I drew up based on someones design that posted a picture of their turnbuckles. I am not an engineer, the reason I am posting this is to get opinions from those of you that have some real experiences and have knowledge that extends beyond my own. In the end I want a safe airplane and not break my limited budget. Oh yeah, this turnbucke(if I decide to follow through with it) will only be used in some areas such as inside the wing and maybe a few other places. -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369731#369731 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_207.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2012
In my haste I just realized I wrote 7/16" bolt. That is just force of habbit as I am envisioning the bolt which is a 7/16 bolt head. The bolt I intended would be a 1/4" by 28 threads/inch. Same goes with the 3/8" clevis bolt or bolt with the steel spacer. Also, after another Maker's Mark I decided that this could be modified for a homemade cable quick disconnect system. Just use a shorter bolt and butt the straps together and THEN adjust your tension at the turnbuckle. Then, all you would have to do to put it back together is tighten up the "7/16" until it bottoms out and becomes snug. After that your cable tension should be roughly the same. -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369734#369734 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Nice idea but I think you should increase the width and thickness of the steel strap. 3/4" wide X .063 or .080 Also, an AN111 cable bushing instead of an AN100 thimble would be more appropriate. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles > > In my haste I just realized I wrote 7/16" bolt. That is just force of > habbit as I am envisioning the bolt which is a 7/16 bolt head. The bolt I > intended would be a 1/4" by 28 threads/inch. Same goes with the 3/8" > clevis bolt or bolt with the steel spacer. Also, after another Maker's > Mark I decided that this could be modified for a homemade cable quick > disconnect system. Just use a shorter bolt and butt the straps together > and THEN adjust your tension at the turnbuckle. Then, all you would have > to do to put it back together is tighten up the "7/16" until it bottoms > out and becomes snug. After that your cable tension should be roughly the > same. > > -------- > Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully > complete the flight. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369734#369734 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Mar 31, 2012
Kyle, Just looked at your sketch, and my first thought was "How are you going to tighten that nut/bolt?". I don't see how you would be able to get wrenches into those spaces. When "eyeball engineering" things, it's always a good idea to draw your idea in a 1:1 scale. Draw every part as accurately as possible, including fasteners. Usually by creating an accurate scale drawing, the feasibility of your idea becomes more clear (or not). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369746#369746 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2012
Here's a couple of pics of Tigermoth turnbuckles that are on a Piet on Vancouver Island. Clif "I began my education at a very early age--in fact, right after I left college." (Winston Churchill) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Combing
I don't have a website, but have attached a better picture of the cockpit. The combing across the front has a piece of 1/2 or so plastic tubing split and pushed over the edge of the aluminum. Over that I put a piece of foam pipe insulation. I measured where the forward edge of foam insulation ended up and marked the aluminum cowl for 3/16 holes for the leather lacing. I used a high quality vinyl for the covers, which were cut so that there was extra material to fold over into the split in the foam pipe insulation. All this was glued together with contact cement. The leather lacing and the vinyl all came from JoAnn's fabric store. The cockpit sides were made by forming a piece of thin aluminum in a "U" shape that would fit upside down on the cockpit rail, allowing for a thickness of vinyl on either side. A piece of the foam pipe insulation was split in half and glued down to the top side. Vinyl was then glued to it, wrapping around the bottom edges, so that there wouldn't be any sharp edges to damage the fabric. I had added a 1/2 X 1/4 inch piece of capstrip along the all edges of my fuselage so the fabric would stand away from the plywood, so the width was just about right for the foam pipe insulation. These side pieces are just pressed into place and held by a wood screw on either end. The back edge of the pilot's seat is a strip of aluminum with 1/2 inch plastic tubing pressed over the forward edge. This was wrapped with vinyl, and laced with leather. Its just held on with 5 small wood screws. Hope this helps. Ben On 3/31/2012 1:45 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" > > Ben, > > Do you have a website where I could access pictures of how you did your > cockpit combing? > > Gary from Cool > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:08 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircamping Re-send > > It really was held in Florida. Its amazing I can manage to keep the > Piet upright, but somehow post at least 3 different pictures upside > down. Hope this one works. > > Ben > > PS. The i-phone takes great pictures, but does unpredictable things > with them. > On 3/31/2012 12:29 PM, taildrags wrote: >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" >> >> It was held in Australia this year. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC"Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369695#369695 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Windscreen options
Date: Apr 01, 2012
Nice work, John. On the windscreens, will you just be using those for patterns to make some that follow the curves of the boot cowl, or do you intend to put the metal stretcher/crimper to those and make them fit? And when are you going to fire up the engine? It almost looks like you could hook fuel up to it and pull it through. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford/Ashland, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Just my $.02, but aircraft bolts don't have enough threads on them to give you much in the way of adjustment. If you add a jam nut you wouldn't have any adjustment room at all. B&B Aircraft supply was selling turnbuckles for around $8 at SNF last week. Your design looks pretty strong, but not very adjustable. Ben Charvet 120 hrs so far On 3/31/2012 9:09 PM, Kyle85 wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kyle85" > > One of the great things about building an experimental airplanes is that you can demonstrate certain ideas and concepts. Turnbuckles are critical safety items, but I believe that there is a way to duplicate the function of an aviation grade turnbuckle by using all aircraft grade parts for a fraction of the cost and the satisfaction of overcoming a design problem. The picture below is somthing I drew up based on someones design that posted a picture of their turnbuckles. I am not an engineer, the reason I am posting this is to get opinions from those of you that have some real experiences and have knowledge that extends beyond my own. In the end I want a safe airplane and not break my limited budget. Oh yeah, this turnbucke(if I decide to follow through with it) will only be used in some areas such as inside the wing and maybe a few other places. > > -------- > Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369731#369731 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_207.jpg > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2012
There is safety wire there. It's very hard to see in these pics. They were taken some years ago with my very first really, really, cheap digital camera so there's a lot of fuzzyness. Clif > > > those are interesting turnbuckles- looks like solid wires? bet they work > well, but do they have a way for safetying? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank- ready to weld
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Good people, After 6 solid days of work, I have finally finished the fabrication of my n ew tank, and am ready to weld. I learned a lot along the way about flow-for ming aluminum. As you can see by the photos, there is a huge resultant diff erence between using a steel as opposed to a plastic insert in the rivet gu n. The forming surface underneath is 3/4" thick MFD board (Lowe's) routed-o ut to form whatever beads or troughs you happened to need. I bought that fl ow-forming (rivet gun) tool from tinmantech.com, with the white plastic ins ert. The plastic insert that comes with it is flat. I bought additional ins ert material from Mcmastercarr.com (1-1/4" diameter UHMW rod) and formed it with my small lathe and band saw. I would be happy to answer any questions, but I may not get back to you til l tomorrow. Hope this helps somebody. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel tank
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2012
The flanged holes were formed using the MFD board also. Cut a hole in the M FD board then use a round-over router bit to taper the inside of the hole. Cut the hole in the aluminum about 1/2" smaller. Then force a "plug" down i nto the aluminum to form the flange. I just happened to have some tapered c ast iron grommet-setting dies that worked nicely, but the plugs can be form ed with the MFD board also. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Although, I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could make my own for under $8 Kyle -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369819#369819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank
Tank looks really nice. About how many gallons? Attached are pictures of the dies I made to do my hole flanges.- The dies pictured are fresh off the lathe, they were cut/faced down to be quite a b it shorter prior to use. The one half self aligns as it is pressed into the other. I squeezed them in a vice with the part between them. I made two different sizes.- I then found access to a slew of actual airc raft flange dies..figures... Michael Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Subject: Re: Windscreen options
From: John Kuhfahl <kuhlcouper(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Oscar. engine is done but want to fit-in cowling,sheet metal and windscreen before I finish plumbing. So I think I can fit these wind screens in. You are the only one to respond. i think they look good...when are you heading this way? On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Nice work, John. On the windscreens, will you just be > > using those for patterns to make some that follow the > > curves of the boot cowl, or do you intend to put the > > metal stretcher/crimper to those and make them fit? > > > And when are you going to fire up the engine? It almost > > looks like you could hook fuel up to it and pull it > > through. > > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" > Medford/Ashland, OR > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
On short cables such as the tailfeathers you can eliminate the turnbuckles, ,just twisting the cable once or twice gives plenty of adjustment - Norm --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Kyle85 wrote: From: Kyle85 <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 7:50 AM Thanks for the input guys! I really do like the tigermoth turnbuckles. Alth ough, I may just bite the bullet and buy some. Heck, I don't think I could make my own for under $8 Kyle -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complet e the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369819#369819 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Covering is under way....
And incredibly fun! Still needs edge tape and some clean up here and there but...."The People's Plane" sees some progress! Jim in Pryor ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Covering is under way....
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Looking good Jim! -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369833#369833 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Covering is under way....
"You have taken your fist step into a larger world." Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Flanging dies
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Your dies are exquisite, Michael (and Dan)! Lest anyone get the wrong impression that you need a metal lathe and metal working skills, attached are some flanging dies that I made from scrap plywood for my 601 project. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 5:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank Tank looks really nice. About how many gallons? Attached are pictures of the dies I made to do my hole flanges. The dies pictured are fresh off the lathe, they were cut/faced down to be quite a bit shorter prior to use. The one half self aligns as it is pressed into the other. I squeezed them in a vice with the part between them. I made two different sizes. I then found access to a slew of actual aircraft flange dies..figures... Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Subject: more on turnbuckles
From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01(at)gmail.com>
I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather that B&B has periodic specials or some such. In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly. The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside the wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an aircraft bolt. I have not used these on my project, but you could buy and use Class 5 bolts for this application. This is a straight tension application, so the vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex and recover in shear, etc., is not an issue. What is an issue is corrosion. See if you can find plated Class 5 bolts. Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008. Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which have an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated, you have welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion issues afterwards, easily solved by paint or powder. The plated threads would not be affected and would need neither. Standard hardware eyebolts should work very well and are very inexpensive. You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light gray oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required. These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well. No welding. FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially in ways in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or carbon fiber! Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Subject: Re: more on turnbuckles
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
I'm not sure from the drawing if it is easy to insert the bolt. If it is, why not just experiment with AN bolts until finding the length that is right? Also, I'd sure rather see a castellated nut at the other end, since cables can vibrate and move around a bit. Cheers, Ken On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Timothy Willis wrote: > > I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I > recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about > double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather > that B&B has periodic specials or some such. > > In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not > complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the > phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly. > > The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside > the wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an > aircraft bolt. I have not used these on my project, but you could buy > and use Class 5 bolts for this application. This is a straight > tension application, so the vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex > and recover in shear, etc., is not an issue. What is an issue is > corrosion. See if you can find plated Class 5 bolts. > > Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in > the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry > Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008. > Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which > have an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated, > you have welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion > issues afterwards, easily solved by paint or powder. The plated > threads would not be affected and would need neither. Standard > hardware eyebolts should work very well and are very inexpensive. > > You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is > completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light > gray oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required. > These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well. > No welding. > > FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone > tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially > in ways in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or > carbon fiber! > > Tim in central TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flanging dies
On 4/2/2012 10:07 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Your dies are exquisite, Michael (and Dan)! Lest anyone get the wrong > impression that you need a metal lathe and metal working skills, > attached are some flanging dies that I made from scrap plywood for my > 601 project. > > Gary Boothe > > NX308MB > > Very cool Gary! Good to know that this is another way to do it. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2012
From: Rick Schreiber <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: more on turnbuckles
On 4/2/2012 10:35 AM, Timothy Willis wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Timothy Willis > > I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I > recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about > double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather > that B&B has periodic specials or some such. > > In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not > complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the > phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly. > > ................................... > Tim in central TX > Tim: B&B aircraft supplies was sold recently. The old price prior to sale was $2.50 per part or $10.00 per complete turnbuckle. The new owners have raised the prices, but still less than ACS. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: Kenneth Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Kyle, If I'm understanding your sketch, it looks like it would put a bending force on the bolt, not pure tension. The tiger moth style puts all of the forces in-line. Ken On Mar 31, 2012, at 6:09 PM, Kyle85 wrote: > > One of the great things about building an experimental airplanes is that you can demonstrate certain ideas and concepts. Turnbuckles are critical safety items, but I believe that there is a way to duplicate the function of an aviation grade turnbuckle by using all aircraft grade parts for a fraction of the cost and the satisfaction of overcoming a design problem. The picture below is somthing I drew up based on someones design that posted a picture of their turnbuckles. I am not an engineer, the reason I am posting this is to get opinions from those of you that have some real experiences and have knowledge that extends beyond my own. In the end I want a safe airplane and not break my limited budget. Oh yeah, this turnbucke(if I decide to follow through with it) will only be used in some areas such as inside the wing and maybe a few other places. > > -------- > Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369731#369731 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/turnbuckle_207.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: more on turnbuckles
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Good memory Tim, The eye bolts we used were from McMaster Carr and had rolled threads their entire length. We used them for drag/anti-drag inside the wing. Seems like they were about $1.00 each including shipping. We built a jig and pulled to destruction of around 5000 Lbs. The jig broke, but the eyebolt did not. Just before the jig came apart, the eye went from a circle to a slight oval. We figured that if you pulled over 5000 Lbs and broke the eyebolt, you were really having a bad day and don't think that the wing would survive anyway. But as they walked up to the crumpled pile, they could say "Wow that really looks terrible, but it sure didn't hurt those eyebolts!" Barry NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Willis Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: more on turnbuckles --> I bought some turnbuckles from B&B over the phone about a year ago. I recall the price was not the commonly quoted "$8 price." It was about double that, but still half of what ASS demands for them. I gather that B&B has periodic specials or some such. In any event, I was glad to have B&B as a source; I am not complaining. The quality of the product is excellent, the lady n the phone was pleasant and efficient, and I got the items quickly. The Tiger Moth style turnbuckles look like a good design for inside the wings. Gardiner (airlion) mentioned not much travel on an aircraft bolt. I have not used these on my project, but you could buy and use Class 5 bolts for this application. This is a straight tension application, so the vaunted ability of aircraft bolts to flex and recover in shear, etc., is not an issue. What is an issue is corrosion. See if you can find plated Class 5 bolts. Another solution for the "turnbuckles" for drag and anti-drag wires in the wings is eyebolts. The Big Piet guys in GA used them. Barry Davis showed this at Brodhead in (I forget?) either 2006 or 2008. Barry told me at that time they used standard hardware eyebolts, which have an opening, but welded that opening closed. If they are plated, you have welding oxide safety issues while welding and corrosion issues afterwards, easily solved by paint or powder. The plated threads would not be affected and would need neither. Standard hardware eyebolts should work very well and are very inexpensive. You can buy cast steel eyebolts for about $8 each, in which the eye is completely closed. The ones with which I am familiar have a light gray oxide finish, so further corrosion resistance would be required. These are very strong and seem a straightforward solution, as well. No welding. FWIW I am using 100 percent aviation turnbuckles, but admire anyone tinkering with safe alternatives, self-fabrication, etc., especially in ways in keeping with the Pietenpol tradition. Hey, no titanium or carbon fiber! Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Temperpedic style foam for your Piet seats
From: darmahboy(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Hey guys A very economical alternative seat foam is Ikea's ergonomic shaped beddin g pillows. They feel very much like the "Temperpedic space age foam" mattress material but are only about $18.00 a piece. It takes two per Piet seat. They are kinda shaped fun ny for your neck and shoulders but I sit on mine. I also put one in my Grumman Lynx when I give young eag le rides as a booster seat so they can see over the panel while they're perfoming knife-edge flight & stuff. See ya @ Brodhead Tail winds, Bob Poore, Minneapolis A.K.A. Greg Cardinal & Dick Navratil's wingman. Piet NX29LD Conti eng, 3 piece wing, cub gear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: possible idea
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2012
Well this is probably not useful to many but I saw it on the Ragwing site today.the fellow had hinged the seat back so that it folded down with a hole that slipped over the control stick to make a control lock that also had to be hinged up to fly. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369897#369897 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc.
Do any of you metalworkers have a good idea for forming louvers?? Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc.
Tony B's books talks some about louvers for exhaust stacks...not sure if he covers louvers for any other application. However, you may pick up some ideas. Michael Perez Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc.
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
I can't find them downstairs, but I have a couple books by Ron Fournier on sheet metal forming. I really seem to recall a section devoted to making louvers by hand with simple hammer forming techniques. They're usually on the shelves of the normal big book stores (Barnes and Nobles, etc) in the automotive section. Might be worth browsing through them. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369940#369940 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc.
Larry, Quality Machine in Lagrange Ga. Has a pattern that he uses for stamping out louvers. Bill Hollowell is his name and he made a pair for me. They look nice. Gardiner ________________________________ From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 9:04:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc. Do any of you metalworkers have a good idea for forming louvers?? Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Subject: louvers for cowling area
I found a local hotrod machine shop that had a set of louver dies of variou s sizes (long since have gone out of bidness) that they tried on my 2024T3 .025" cowling material and it didn't work well . The edges of the cuts were tearing at the corners so I gave them a test sheet of dead soft aluminum .025" (same mat'l as my engine cooling eyebrows are fabricated from to resist cracking from vibration.) and that worked great b ut I had to fasten the cut louver plates to my 2024T3 cowling and accomplished that as the sketches indicate. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tanks, flanging dies, etc.
From: "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
How big do you need them and in what configuration (curved surface, etc)? You can buy flat sheets of louvers in different sizes from the aircraft supply houses, and they work fine to do a cut out and then rivet the panel in place. Even work well on curved surfaces as long as the surface is not a compound curve (curved more than one direction). I have made press forms of different sizes using MDF and successfully pressed them into panels. They are not easy to do. And you can flow form them with a rivet gun and a tool from Tin Man Technologies. M. Haught On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:02 AM, tools wrote: > > I can't find them downstairs, but I have a couple books by Ron Fournier on sheet metal forming. I really seem to recall a section devoted to making louvers by hand with simple hammer forming techniques. > > They're usually on the shelves of the normal big book stores (Barnes and Nobles, etc) in the automotive section. Might be worth browsing through them. > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369940#369940 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: louvers for cowling area
From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Mike, I saw Lon Dienst making the louvers on his Art Chester Jeep replica. As I recall, he basically drilled two holes on either end of the louver length and joined them with a single cut line and then bent metal. I am sure it was not as easy a task as I made it sound. I know he pitched a few pieces before getting it right. This picture does not show the louvers all that good, but they are visible. I think the bends are a little less aggressive than you show in your sketches. Good luck, -------- David Gallagher Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now Next project under construction: Aircamper Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369956#369956 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/800px_art_chester_jeep_replica_205.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jeep Replica
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Gary, According to this video, it's a Menasco D4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xhDs62G6r4 Bill (not Dave or Mike) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369962#369962 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Well, I would say just the buy aircraft turnbuckles. One spends more money going out to dinner a few time vs the cost of the TB's. There is really are not many of them in a Piet. Think about the safety factor and proven design, very cheap insurance at 1000 feet too. My 2-cents worth. -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369972#369972 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: "Kyle85" <boschkyle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Yeah, I will be using store bought aircraft tb's. Looking at it now, mine are not lighter, stronger, or much cheaper. Thanks again for the input. I will always be trying to learn more and improve my airplane! Kyle -------- Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369985#369985 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Kyle, Whether or not you end up with store bought turnbuckles, I'd like applaud your thinking aloud about this. Were it not for inquiring minds like yours, there never would have been experimental aircraft. Everybody would be boring holes in the sky in spam cans. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Kyle85 wrote: > > Yeah, I will be using store bought aircraft tb's. Looking at it now, mine are not lighter, stronger, or much cheaper. Thanks again for the input. I will always be trying to learn more and improve my airplane! > Kyle > > -------- > Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369985#369985 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Hi all- New builder here. I'm hoping to begin building this fall and I'm going through all of the "up-front" decisions to figure out what I really want in a Piet. I'm seriously considering doing the Aerial biplane mod...love the biplane look. Can anyone share any opinions on the flying characteristics of the Aerial compared to the straight Piet? How about building considerations? Anything else? Thanks! -- Skagit out 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369999#369999 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Where to start?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Like I mentioned in my other post, I'm a new builder hoping to start this fall. Question for the group is...where do most people start? Wing ribs? Empenage? I was thinking of starting with the tail, mostly because I was thinking about building an RV-8 a while back ($!), and that just seems to be where you start, so I carried that thought over to the Piet. Any input appreciated... --Skagit out 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370000#370000 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to start?
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Welcome.... I started with the fuselage as that is what I was most excitied about.... I suggest you start with whatever part of the airplane YOU are motivated to build.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370001#370001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Subject: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
If you want to build a Pietenpol, then build a Pietenpol (Air Camper or Sky Scout). If you want a biplane, build an Aerial, Hatz, Parakeet, Great Lakes, etc etc....they are all different airplanes from what Pietenpol designed.... Just curious....what are your measurements (height/weight).... Ryan On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Skagit wrote: > > Hi all- > > New builder here. I'm hoping to begin building this fall and I'm going > through all of the "up-front" decisions to figure out what I really want in > a Piet. I'm seriously considering doing the Aerial biplane mod...love the > biplane look. > > Can anyone share any opinions on the flying characteristics of the Aerial > compared to the straight Piet? How about building considerations? > Anything else? > > Thanks! > > -- Skagit out 8) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369999#369999 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piets West
Date: Apr 03, 2012
John asked- >when are you heading this way? Well, it turns out that I met a very nice gent at Ashland Parker Muni last Saturday and we've struck a deal where I can share his hangar. He's building a Q2 (super low wing), so with my high wing we should be a good fit. "My" side of the hangar should be cleared out by June if all goes as planned, so I should be able to fly Scout out West by the time genuine summertime comes to the Pacific Northwest. Late June, early July. Should be a great time to be out smashing bugs with the windscreen! Ashland Parker Muni is uncontrolled and friendly (more so than Medford Int'l., which has scheduled commercial flights, is controlled, and has roving guards keeping the world safe and demanding to see photo IDs). Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford/Ashland, OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Any thoughts on this idea for turnbuckles
Date: Apr 03, 2012
Thirty eight by my count. Let's see, assembly AN130-16S, fork on one end and cable eye on the other is $29.00 from AS&S. So 29 times 38 is $1102. Hmmmm. Certainly significantly less from Bed and Breakfast but still enough to give pause. I was fortunate enough to get them one sale from B&B some time ago for about $280 so abandoned my plans to make my own. Before buying them I had made up the tail rig, rudder and elevator wires without turnbuckles at all using the twist method for adjustment. The standing rigging back there still has no TB's. Also don't forget. This IS experimental aviation. Clif A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway will take you anywhere > > Well, I would say just the buy aircraft turnbuckles. One spends more > money going out to dinner a few time vs the cost of the TB's. There is > really are not many of them in a Piet. > > Think about the safety factor and proven design, very cheap insurance at > 1000 feet too. > > My 2-cents worth. > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369972#369972 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Piets West
Date: Apr 04, 2012
So I guess we'll be seeing you at Arlington, right?? Clif Scout out West by the time genuinesummertime comes to the Pacific Northwest. Late June, early July. Should be a great time to be out smashing bugs with the windscreen! Ashland Parker Muni is uncontrolled and friendly (more so than Medford ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2012
From: jack phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Where to start?
Like many questons in building an airplane, the answer is ... it depends. -One consideration for most builders is space. -For that reason either the wing ribs or the tail group make the most sense. -They store fairly e asily once built. -If you build the fuselage first, it will sit there tak ing up a lot of space while you continue to build the rest of the structure . -If you have a lot of room, then it really doesn't matter too much whic h part you build first. The fuselage is also the only component much affected by engine choice. - If you have already chosen your engine, this is not an issue. -But if you are still trying to decide on the powerplant, the fuselage is probably not the best point to start. I built the wing ribs first, then assembled the wings, then the tail, and b uilt the fuselage last. -That sequence worked well for me, but as I said when I started, it depends on a lot of factors. Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Skagit wrote: From: Skagit <ratkowskis(at)msn.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where to start? Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 10:58 PM Like I mentioned in my other post, I'm a new builder hoping to start this f all.- Question for the group is...where do most people start?- Wing rib s?- Empenage?- I was thinking of starting with the tail, mostly because I was thinking abo ut building an RV-8 a while back ($!), and that just seems to be where you start, so I carried that thought over to the Piet.- Any input appreciated... --Skagit out 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370000#370000 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model A & Model T
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Just wondering, are there any differences between the engine in the Model T & Model A Ford? I had a discovery today of 2 Model T chassis's with engines and have been told the guy who owns these has 21 of them. Not sure if they are all Model T or if he has any model A engines. Are they the same engine? Scotty -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start fuselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370012#370012 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A & Model T
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
The most pertinent difference is that it's about half the horsepower. Still a pretty nice find, just probably not the best choice for a Piet! Might be great trading stock to get a Model A engine if that's what you're looking for. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370016#370016 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Where to start?
Skagit, welcome to the Pietenpol list.- When first starting out, ambition and motivation are high, so I decided to start with the components I knew I would enjoy the LEAST, for me that was t he ribs. It is repetitive work that for me, after the first two or three, I was ready to move on. I saved the items I was really looking forward to doing until a lot later i n the build. From time to time when I was not as motivated, looking ahead t o the things I wanted to build helped keep me going. You will also find as you get further into it, one item or section can't be done until some other is completed first, so a sequence of builds sort of presents itself as you go. Michael Perez HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A & Model T
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
I believe the Model T engine could be used to power a Scout (you know, the Other Pietenpol) - not many of those around - it would be a unique project. Kip Gardner On Apr 4, 2012, at 8:50 AM, tools wrote: > > The most pertinent difference is that it's about half the horsepower. Still a pretty nice find, just probably not the best choice for a Piet! Might be great trading stock to get a Model A engine if that's what you're looking for. > > Tools > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370016#370016 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Hi Ryan- I looked at all those other designs, but I'm looking for two seats, wood construction, corvair powered, and reasonably priced. Tah dah...the Piet. Like I said I love the bipe look, so thought the Aerial mod made sense. I'm 6', 215. Concerned I'm not going to fit in something? Rob [quote="Ryan Mueller"]If you want to build a Pietenpol, then build a Pietenpol (Air Camper or Sky Scout). If you want a biplane, build an Aerial, Hatz, Parakeet, Great Lakes, etc etc....they are all different airplanes from what Pietenpol designed... Just curious....what are your measurements (height/weight)... Ryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370019#370019 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to start?
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
You will receive several answers from all builders. I myself thought about wings first. Then I read Tony Bengalis sp who suggested fuse first. Fuse first is a good place to begin as it takes less time and provides a major structural component that illustrates a major accomplishment and fuels the addiction. Jack is correct in that once assembled your space becomes the next major area of consideration it is difficult to store. Where as the wings take more time and patients to build and store more readily. For the most part and commitment start with smaller structural components like tail surfaces. Easy to store shorter time to build and get the flavor of the build and is it for you? You can decide to continue or abandon that ambition with minimal investment loss as you decide on a different venture and still have a tangible component to look at and ponder, study or hang in your shop. A fuze and wings are too big to walk away from and too big to store for a later date unless space is not an issue or abundantly available at low or no cost Space, time, investment and commitment are natural components of the build. Being ADD also helps, it permits you to set up your work plan to maximize tasks while the epoxy cures Just my 2 cents John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2012, at 11:09 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > Welcome.... I started with the fuselage as that is what I was most excitied about.... I suggest you start with whatever part of the airplane YOU are motivated to build.... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370001#370001 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Where to start?
<< Where as the wings take more time and patients to build and store more readily. >> Only if you are in the medical profession and that is how you are financing your project. 8>) Stinemetze ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to start?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Thanks all! Just wanted to make sure I didn't make some major sequencing error. I think I'll do the tail first. Being my first build I like the idea of getting a feel for everything before I throw a bunch of money at it. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370024#370024 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Subject: Re: Model A & Model T
stock model T engine 20 HP Stock Model A engine 40 HP Stock Model B engine 50HP (improved Model A) ----- Original Message ----- From: bubbleboy <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:13 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A & Model T > > Just wondering, are there any differences between the engine in the Model T & Model A Ford? I had a discovery today of 2 Model T chassis's with > engines and have been told the guy who owns these has 21 of them. > Not sure if they are all Model T or if he has any model A engines. > Are they the same engine? > > Scotty > > -------- > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to > start fuselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be > modified. > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370012#370012 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to start?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
TOMS(at)mcpcity.com wrote: > > Just be sure to add the attachment points for the JATO rockets, smoke generators, and tailhook now so you don't have to go back and cobble up your hard work later. > Sweet...does Keri-Ann sell plans for those? [Wink] Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370028#370028 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
Yeah, you get to build four wings with two sets of 32 ribs and 42 pieces of wood for each rib. Biplanes look neat but ribs will drive you nuts. but its only time so whatever you like. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Hi Skagit - Is that your first name or your last? We love real names. Welcome to the world of Piets. Most of us who have successfully built and flown Pietenpols have stuck pretty close to the plans. It seems that most people who fly a lot have planes that are pretty close to the original. I can only think of two Aerials that I've seen pictures of in completed form. That's an indicator. I also think you'd be on your own in terms of design support, knowing what little I know about Chad Wille. If you really want a biplane then you may want to look at a design that started life as a biplane. Or do like some of us: build a Piet and make the next project a biplane. Again, welcome. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370037#370037 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A & Model T
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Hiya Tools...thank you for that! that is good to know. How do you tell the difference then? Is it serial numbers? Fords are pretty rare here in Australia so to find these is great! I havent spoken to the guy in person yet but have his contact details. One day a Scout might be nice to build with a Ford engine. Scotty -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start fuselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370050#370050 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A & Model T
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2012
Thanks guys. That is a big Hp difference! I need to speak with the guy and see what he has. Scotty -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Rudder, Vert stab, Elevators, Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to start fuselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370052#370052 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Ford A's and T's
Date: Apr 05, 2012
I'm no expert, but even from what little reading I've done, there are enough substantial differences between the two engines to make identification easy. I'm sure a little time spent on the internet would produce pics of both. I think the first Scout was T powered, but from Bernards' writing about it, it sounds almost like he did it to prove the T should fly, NOT because it was the best engine. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Piston Good or Trash?
Crew, attached are a few pictures of one piston showing wear. I am curious if this piston is usable, or should I trash it for a new one?-- I have not cleaned the other 3 from this set as of yet. -The two close up pictures are of two different wear spots, on opposite s ides of the piston. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
When in doubt? Throw it out! John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 5, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Crew, attached are a few pictures of one piston showing wear. I am curious if this piston is usable, or should I trash it for a new one? I have not c leaned the other 3 from this set as of yet. > > The two close up pictures are of two different wear spots, on opposite si des of the piston. > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Do you have your rings yet? Check the fit of the rings in the grooves - specs are in the OH manual. That may make the decision for you. M. Haught On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:45 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > When in doubt? Throw it out! > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 5, 2012, at 9:17 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > >> Crew, attached are a few pictures of one piston showing wear. I am curious if this piston is usable, or should I trash it for a new one? I have not cleaned the other 3 from this set as of yet. >> >> The two close up pictures are of two different wear spots, on opposite sides of the piston. >> >> Michael Perez >> Pietenpol HINT Videos >> Karetaker Aero >> www.karetakeraero.com >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: data plate
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Does anyone know where this data plate came from and whether they are avail able? It was in a Piet in an article in the Air & Space magazine=2C but I have never seen another one like it. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
That's the catch. I have .015" over pistons/cylinders and standard. I am tr ying to decide which set to use so I can buy the correct piston rings.- I f I go with the .015" over, I need to buy a piston. (One is NOT usable)- If the standard size piston pictured is no good, I'll have to buy at least one, maybe more if the others in the set look the same. What I am after in this post is a feel for what is usable and what is not. I am not throwing away parts with out knowing for sure. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: data plate
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Ask the manufacturer Dennis Hall in Tucson, AZ. He should be able to tell you. Curt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370079#370079 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Michael I've just completed a Top Overhaul of tired A75. If that had been my Piston I would have fitted rings and continued. Its cleaned up nice other than the odd wear as shown. The idea to check ring gaps is the answer. I measured for standard size from Fresno and they all met tolerance (3 Ring Set). The old rings were laughable. Gap at minimum was 1/8". The best (Worst!) was over 3/16". All the middle compression rings were stuck with carbon too. Running as sweet as a nut now. Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: data plate
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
It would be a nice one to have if we cant locate one, maybe we need to find s omeone to reproduce it. I am certain we have the resources to do that, especially with the diversity in the group surely someone knows someone who can produce them. I know I know don't call me Shirley ! John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Gene Rambo wrote: > > Does anyone know where this data plate came from and whether they are avai lable? It was in a Piet in an article in the Air & Space magazine, but I ha ve never seen another one like it. > > Gene > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Thanks Gerry.-- I am more eager to clean up the other three and see how they look now. I'll have to clean up the matching cylinders as well and see if they are us able. The .015" oversize cylinders are good to go. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Subject: Re: data plate
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
If my memory hasn't given out completely, I seem to remember that Oscar Zuniga, now of Oregon, sells a very nice data plate. I'm sure he'll jump in to correct this, if I'm mistaken. On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > It would be a nice one to have if we cant locate one, maybe we need to find > someone to reproduce it. > > I am certain we have the resources to do that, especially with the diversity > in the group surely someone knows someone who can produce them. > > I know I know don't call me Shirley ! > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Gene Rambo wrote: > > > Does anyone know where this data plate came from and whether they are > available? It was in a Piet in an article in the Air & Space magazine, but > I have never seen another one like it. > > Gene > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: data plate
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Here's Oscar's data plates. http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370086#370086 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Michael Glad to give moral support. I got everything just about from Fresno Airparts. Robert Crispi the owner gives very good service and I'm in England. Payment by PayPal and delivery very fast. Just waiting for Customs to catch up! These small Continentals are great little engines and easy to work on. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole process of overhaul. As a thank you the engine started first swing. Regards Gerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What to build
From: woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 05, 2012
I looked at all those other designs, but I'm looking for two seats, wood construction, corvair powered, and reasonably priced. Tah dah...the Piet. Like I said I love the bipe look, so thought the Aerial mod made sense. I'm 6', 215. Concerned I'm not going to fit in something? Rob -------------------------- Rob, I'm 5'11" and was 206 on the scales this morning. I fit in my Piet fin e - it's a small cockpit any way you look at it. Solo, with me in the back seat and full fue l (I built mine with a fuselage tank rather than the wing center section tank) my CG is abo ut 18.5 inches aft of datum. 20 inches is the aft limit. If I were to change any thing about my P iet, I think I would go with the long fuselage rather than the short that I buil t. That would give a bit more leg room and clearance for my knees getting in and out. But the short fuselage I built certainly works for me. Raking the wing back about 4 inches should keep the CG in the acceptable range. Matt Paxton NX629ML ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Copy Gerry. I planned on getting my parts from Fresno as well.- I have a lot of cleaning still ahead of me, but I am making good progress. My crank and cam came back from Aircraft Specialty Services Tuesday.- I also picke d up my one set of cylinders, case, accessory case, rods, caps, and gears f rom the local place that did zyglo and magnaflux testing. Thanks for your time and input. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com - ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Michael, The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up. That part of the piston doesn't touch the cylinder wall. After you determine that the ring gaps are OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts. This measurement and the cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston clearance. All of the acceptable measurements will be in the overhaul manual as others have said. These old cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engines would just give up. Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding. I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results. Just make sure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from them before putting the parts in your engine. I have known others who have received the occasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with. My 2 cents, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370095#370095 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
That wear alone wouldn't deter me from using it. A not commonly checked item is the side clearance between the ring and the ring groove. If that is in spec, wrist pin hole is good, piston wall clearance is good, then I'd call it reusable. A piston's main function in life is to carry the rings up and down correctly, so proper ring to piston fit is critical. Clearance is more esoteric. It can't be too tight because when it expands as it gets hot, if it jams up.... well, not good. Too loose is more of luxury. Loose pistons are noisy, not a problem in race car engines, those guys run really loose clearances. Really nice quiet luxury car engines that are supposed to run smooth and quiet, run rather tight clearances. It looks like that damage was caused by too much gunk in the top of the engine. Doesn't extend back to the ring grooves, which would be more of a concern. Check any references you have closely as to WHERE to measure certain clearances as most pistons aren't round so the nominal size is measured perpendicular to the wrist pin, at the skirt usually. Sorry to ramble, hope this helps some. This is what I've gleaned from reading every rebuild manual I can find on all sorts of engines. After a while, some things seem to keep coming up, while other things don't and I don't know why that is. The ring slide clearance doesn't seem to come up often, but long time rebuilders of little Wisconsin industrial air cooled engines swear by it. Their arguments make a lot of sense to me. Those engines are rated around 40hp, 2000 rpmish, gasoline burners and run wide open developing their rated horsepower continuously, much like our aircraft engines. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370096#370096 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Thanks Scott, I will be doing just as you said.- I am interested to see i f the matching cylinder to this piston shows gouges in the same general are a. Building these engines is quite fun...a good break from wood and metal fabr ication.- (Although I will be fabricating some engine related stuff...) Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com --- On Thu, 4/5/12, AircamperN11MS wrote: From: AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash? Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 12:16 PM y.org> Michael, The wear you see there is probably from some carbon build up.- That part of the piston doesn't touch the cylinder wall.- After you determine that the ring gaps are OK then make sure you measure the Piston skirts.- This measurement and the cylinder wall diameter will determine the piston cleara nce.- All of the acceptable measurements will be in the overhaul manual a s others have said.- These old cont. engines are very forgiving and will continue to run when other engines would just give up.- Building your own engine is a lot of fun and very rewarding.- I too have used a lot of parts from Fresno Air Parts with good results.- Just make sure that you measure and inspect everything you purchase from th em before putting the parts in your engine.- I have known others who have received the occasional bad part but otherwise they are great to deal with . My 2 cents, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370095#370095 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Some good points Tools, all of which are why I posted my question. The manual does include specs. for piston groove/ring clearance. I will be checking all of this once I decide what set of pistons/cylinders I will be using and have the correct new rings in hand. Thanks for all the good tips! Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What to build
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room I can get! Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370103#370103 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: St. Croix Aerial Opinions?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
kevinpurtee wrote: > Hi Skagit - Is that your first name or your last? We love real names. > > Welcome to the world of Piets. Most of us who have successfully built and flown Pietenpols have stuck pretty close to the plans. It seems that most people who fly a lot have planes that are pretty close to the original. I can only think of two Aerials that I've seen pictures of in completed form. That's an indicator. I also think you'd be on your own in terms of design support, knowing what little I know about Chad Wille. > > If you really want a biplane then you may want to look at a design that started life as a biplane. Or do like some of us: build a Piet and make the next project a biplane. > > Again, welcome. Thanks Kevin- The name's Rob. Internet handles can be a funny thing... I had a boat a few years back, a Bayliner Skagit model. It was a giant piece of junk...rotten transom, water in the stern drive, electrical shot, etc. I bought it on a whim with little knowledge of boats and less common sense. While I was panicking about what I had done, I signed on to a boating forum for advice using the name Skagit, in homage to my turd-boat. The name just kind of stuck, and I've been using it for various forums ever since. I guess it's my internet persona...like in the old west where Bernie Sniglefutz from Poughkeepsie turned into Buck Strider as soon as he crossed the Wyoming border. Thanks for the feedback on the Aerial. With this being my first project I may just keep it simple and go with the straight Piet. I'll build a Great Lakes or RV-8 next time. Rob (my real name) [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370104#370104 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: What to build
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Hi Rob, Where are you located? -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Apr 5, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Skagit wrote: > > Thanks Matt. I was planning on doing the long fuse. I'll take all the room I can get! > > Rob > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370103#370103 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
No problem. Let us know if you find something different. Insofar as the ring side clearance, it seems to be more of a longevity issue than catastrophic failure sort of thing, for what that's worth. Finding old timers that rebuilt engines like our generation takes out loans is getting tougher and tougher. I bought a portable boring bar from a guy around here who used to rebuild engines at nights in his shop for extra cash. Didn't even break a sweat tearing an engine down, reboring it, lapping in valves, blah blah blah. Unfortunately he couldn't really remember much about it and what were the really important factors in getting a good rebuild. Had no idea how the boring bar worked anymore. Really really neat guy, who even more sadly, passed a couple years ago. Took more knowledge with him that I'll likely ever know. His children had no interest in learning what he knew... I figured out the boring bar and have used it to build a couple of those Wisconsin VH4D engines like you find in old carnival rides, Bobcats, scissor lifts, etc. Going to use it to rebore my Model A blocks soon. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370105#370105 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What to build
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc. wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Where are you located? > > > -john- > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com) > > > > Kalispell, MT. Glacier country! Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370107#370107 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Piston Good or Trash?
Mike C. has a dear friend that flew in WWII and has built Continental engin es for years. He had come to my house and gave both engines an initial once over and recommended what I should do next. (engines were completely disas sembled.) He has the knowledge and memory to do the rebuild,- but I want to learn this myself and do my own work...as much as I can.- But at least I have access to him for back up. (as well as this list) I will be making more use of his knowledge when I work on my carb. and mags . Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com --- On Thu, 4/5/12, tools wrote: From: tools <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piston Good or Trash? Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 1:23 PM No problem.- Let us know if you find something different.- Insofar as t he ring side clearance, it seems to be more of a longevity issue than catas trophic failure sort of thing, for what that's worth.- Finding old timers that rebuilt engines like our generation takes out loans is getting tougher and tougher.- I bought a portable boring bar from a g uy around here who used to rebuild engines at nights in his shop for extra cash.- Didn't even break a sweat tearing an engine down, reboring it, lap ping in valves, blah blah blah.- Unfortunately he couldn't really remembe r much about it and what were the really important factors in getting a goo d rebuild.- Had no idea how the boring bar worked anymore.- Really real ly neat guy, who even more sadly, passed a couple years ago.- Took more k nowledge with him that I'll likely ever know.- His children had no intere st in learning what he knew... I figured out the boring bar and have used it to build a couple of those Wi sconsin VH4D engines like you find in old carnival rides, Bobcats, scissor lifts, etc.- Going to use it to rebore my Model A blocks soon.- Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370105#370105 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Model A & Model T
Date: Apr 05, 2012
One easy way to tell the difference it the A has provision for a water pump on the front of the block=2C the T did not use a water pump from the facto ry. The A has a bell housing and a flywheel then a unbolt able stick shift transmission=2C the T has a oil pan that houses the engine and transmissio n and has three petals to control the gears. Vic > From: steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wed=2C 4 Apr 2012 10:05:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A & Model T > > > stock model T engine 20 HP > Stock Model A engine 40 HP > Stock Model B engine 50HP (improved Model A) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bubbleboy <scott.dawson3(at)bigpond.com> > Date: Wednesday=2C April 4=2C 2012 6:13 > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A & Model T > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Just wondering=2C are there any differences between the engine in the M odel T & Model A Ford? I had a discovery today of 2 Model T chassis's with > > engines and have been told the guy who owns these has 21 of them. > > Not sure if they are all Model T or if he has any model A engines. > > Are they the same engine? > > > > Scotty > > > > -------- > > Tamworth=2C Australia > > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > > Rudder=2C Vert stab=2C Elevators=2C Hor Stab and Ribs built...About to > > start fuselage...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be > > modified. > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370012#370012 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piets West
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Clif=3B I've been in contact with a few friends=2C builders and pilots=2C a bout Arlington. I've never been=2C but it's right around my birthday (July 28 is my birthday) so maybe I'm due for a visit! I might just have the ai rplane up here by then and it would really make for a fun and interesting f light. I'd have to stop in Independence and visit Ernie Moreno and the guy s=2C maybe pick up a wingman there. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Flying Squirrel N2069Z "Rocket" Medford/Ashland=2C OR website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piets West
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 05, 2012
I'll be in Independence Oregon next weekend doing a talk about the Aerocar at their eaa chapter..... Working on control tube bushings and rudder heel skuff plates for my Pietenpol tomorrow and this weekend.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370141#370141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Piets West
Date: Apr 05, 2012
Ha! Sounds like a plan! Clif Clif; I've been in contact with a few friends, builders and pilots, about Arlington. I've never been, but it's right around my birthday (July 28 is my birthday) so maybe I'm due for a visit! I ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Building Material and Hardware Prices
From: "Piet2112" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2012
I thought there needed to be a thread where we could pass along info on prices for building material and hardware. I talked to B&B yesterday and their current rate for turnbuckles is $6 a piece. Of course that is $18 per assembly. Their price for AN115-21 shackles are $10. Needing about 30 of each, that's almost $900. Thats a lot of beer! Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370169#370169 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Building Material and Hardware Prices
I eliminated quite a few shackles by making my wire connections directly to the turnbuckle or the fitting (on the tail surfaces for example). Just a bit of reality. Although you will hear people tell of building and flying a Piet for $7000, I spent $15K on mine and its finished with Latex, and built with locally acquired Douglas Fir. Just saying... Ben On 4/6/2012 3:42 PM, Piet2112 wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Piet2112" > > I thought there needed to be a thread where we could pass along > info on prices for building material and hardware. > > I talked to B&B yesterday and their current rate for turnbuckles is $6 > a piece. Of course that is $18 per assembly. Their price for AN115-21 shackles are $10. > > Needing about 30 of each, that's almost $900. Thats a lot of beer! > > Curt Merdan > Flower Mound, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370169#370169 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Where to start?
Date: Apr 06, 2012
I started with the tail members, then went to the wing ribs, finally to the fuselage. Got it about 1/3 done and switched to the wing. Built the 3-piece version -- right wing first, left wing next, then the center section. Finally got back to the fuselage. Incidentally, while all this was going on built up a WW conversion Corvair engine. Looks great. Haven't run it yet. As soon as the fuselage is far enough along I'll mount the engine and give her a whirl. Most of the engine work was done at Corvair College #21. Hope this helps -- it really doesn't matter where you start. Things just sort of move along. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 10:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where to start? > > Like I mentioned in my other post, I'm a new builder hoping to start this > fall. Question for the group is...where do most people start? Wing ribs? > Empenage? > > I was thinking of starting with the tail, mostly because I was thinking > about building an RV-8 a while back ($!), and that just seems to be where > you start, so I carried that thought over to the Piet. > > Any input appreciated... > > --Skagit out 8) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370000#370000 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 06, 2012
From: Dave Millikan <n11dmx(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Building Material and Hardware Prices
After WW! turnbuckles musta been cheep. I have got around that several ways. - I have used a steel tube drag trus- in the wings ala Starduster Too no tbuckles..I am using a different tail- wire design, no turn buckles. My wings are complete.. N1QZ--- hate to paint ! Dave --- On Fri, 4/6/12, Piet2112 wrote: From: Piet2112 <curtdm(at)gmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building Material and Hardware Prices Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 7:42 PM I thought there needed to be a thread where we could pass along info on prices for building material and hardware. I talked to B&B yesterday and their current rate for turnbuckles is $6 a piece.- Of course that is $18 per assembly.- Their price for AN115-21 shackles are $10. Needing about 30 of each, that's almost $900. Thats a lot of beer! Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370169#370169 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2012
Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I wouldn't try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire. But here is my mousetrap. I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is about 90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as things look wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know that area with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work with a saw and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck removed, I was struck with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of cranial-rectal infusion. I need your help deciding which it is. What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat and extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open like a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would make inspection and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some little inspection holes. Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse comes from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle deck is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to change anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just make it removable, and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to fit in with the period of the design. Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrity of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want to sacrifice safety. I know I can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined for the headlines? Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
Date: Apr 06, 2012
Jim First of all, stick to the plans. And besides it will add weight so don't do it. But that isn't what you asked so I'm guessing it would be ok. The Flybaby has an option to make the turtle deck removable and it is built a lot like the Pietenpol. Maybe they can help you design it if you go that rout. If all your looking for is access, many people have installed a large aluminum panel on the bottom of the fuselage under the bell crank. This should provide easy access. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flea Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 10:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wouldn't it be better if. . . Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I wouldn't try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire. But here is my mousetrap. I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is about 90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as things look wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know that area with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work with a saw and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck removed, I was struck with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of cranial-rectal infusion. I need your help deciding which it is. What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat and extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open like a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would make inspection and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some little inspection holes. Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse comes from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle deck is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to change anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just make it removable, and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to fit in with the period of the design. Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrity of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want to sacrifice safety. I know I can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined for the headlines? Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 06, 2012
Weight is always a concern, and one I have thought about. But like I said, or meant to say anyhow, it is very open with it removed. I hadn't thought about an aluminum panel on the bottom though, that might well be a better idea. What prompted the question is that I have studied literally hundreds of pictures in every stage of construction, thank you everyone that has uploaded to west coast piet. And have never seen that in there. figured there must be a reason. Anyway, AL panel on the bottom sounds like a better idea. Thanks. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370194#370194 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
Only problem I can see, is if you build the turtledeck light, the fabric might deform it when shrunk. Ben On 4/7/2012 1:09 AM, flea wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "flea" > > Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I wouldn't try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire. > > But here is my mousetrap. > > I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is about 90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as things look wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know that area with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work with a saw and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck removed, I was struck with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of cranial-rectal infusion. I need your help deciding which it is. > What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat and extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open like a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would make inspection and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some little inspection holes. > > Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse comes from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle deck is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to change anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just make it removable, and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to fit in with the period of the design. > Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrity of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want to sacrifice safety. > > I know I can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined for the headlines? > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2012
From: norm <coevst(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
That is exactly the way the Bowers Flybaby rear deck is done ,it's simply h eld in place with 2 dowels in the rear and hartwell latches in the cockpit , check out the Flybaby website.. Norm --- On Sat, 4/7/12, flea wrote: From: flea <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wouldn't it be better if. . . Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 1:09 AM Ok, so I always told myself I wouldn't second guess 90 years of success. I wouldn't try re-inventing the better mousetrap or re-discovering fire. But here is my mousetrap. I have been working on my Piet for some time now, and the wood work is abou t 90% done. I have built and re-built it probably a dozen times now as thin gs look wrong to me. One of these areas has been my turtle deck, you know t hat area with all the stringers - well mine was doo doo, so some quick work with a saw and it's gone. After seeing the plane with that turtle deck rem oved, I was struck with either a flash of brilliance, or an attack of crani al-rectal infusion. I need your help deciding which it is. What I was thinking was that the turtle deck from behind the pilot's seat a nd extending back those first two bays could be removable or hinged to open like a lid on an old trunk. The idea is that upon completion, it would mak e inspection and maintenance MUCH easier than trying to go through some lit tle inspection holes. Now if I understand the engineering correctly, the strength of the fuse com es from the 1X1 longerons and all of the associated trusses etc. The turtle deck is there for aerodynamic and aesthetic reasons. I am not proposing to change anything about the longerons or even the shape of the deck, just ma ke it removable, and held on with a series of leather straps and buckles to fit in with the period of the design. Am I way off on this? will I be adversely affecting the structural integrit y- of the design? That is of course the only real question, I don't want to sacrifice safety. I know I- can do anything I want, but is this a dangerous plot destined f or the headlines? Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370192#370192 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "tools" <n0kkj(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
The Standard J1 biplane has a similar fuse and removable turtle deck. Seems not to cause any problems. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370204#370204 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "jimcarriere" <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Something else to consider about the turtle deck is that it can help with the shoulder belt routing. This is a somewhat arcane subject that is near and dear to my heart... The short version is that the shoulder belt should attach to the aircraft behind and at approximately horizontal from your shoulders rather than behind and below (a behind-and-below attachment not only holds you in the seat but it can also compress your spine in a severe crash- but a straight behind attachment just holds you in the seat without hurting your back). The turtledeck can provide a really handy standoff for a shoulder belt guide and then the actual attachment point can be just about anywhere in the tail. The Bingelis book with the blue cover (Sportplane Builder) and AC 43.13-2b both do a good job of explaining this in pictures. ... and I know that a lot of you Piet builders out there know this because I look at your pictures of the beautiful work you've done on your airplanes :D Just some food for thought -Jim (Kitfox builder and Pietenpol aficionado) -------- Jim in NW FL Kitfox Series 7 in progress Rotec R2800 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370208#370208 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
where in nw florida are you Jim? I will be driving to Destin the latter part of April and would like to see your Kitfox if it is close by. Gardiner Mason. --- On Sat, 4/7/12, jimcarriere wrote: > From: jimcarriere <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 10:27 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "jimcarriere" > > Something else to consider about the turtle deck is that it > can help with the shoulder belt routing. This is a > somewhat arcane subject that is near and dear to my > heart... > > The short version is that the shoulder belt should attach to > the aircraft behind and at approximately horizontal from > your shoulders rather than behind and below (a > behind-and-below attachment not only holds you in the seat > but it can also compress your spine in a severe crash- but a > straight behind attachment just holds you in the seat > without hurting your back). The turtledeck can provide > a really handy standoff for a shoulder belt guide and then > the actual attachment point can be just about anywhere in > the tail. > > The Bingelis book with the blue cover (Sportplane Builder) > and AC 43.13-2b both do a good job of explaining this in > pictures. > > ... and I know that a lot of you Piet builders out there > know this because I look at your pictures of the beautiful > work you've done on your airplanes > :D > > > > Just some food for thought > -Jim > (Kitfox builder and Pietenpol aficionado) > > -------- > Jim in NW FL > Kitfox Series 7 in progress > Rotec R2800 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370208#370208 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Jim Here is a sketch Mike Cuy drew of his access door. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/images/Piet_belly_a ccess_door.jpg Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flea Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 11:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . . Weight is always a concern, and one I have thought about. But like I said, or meant to say anyhow, it is very open with it removed. I hadn't thought about an aluminum panel on the bottom though, that might well be a better idea. What prompted the question is that I have studied literally hundreds of pictures in every stage of construction, thank you everyone that has uploaded to west coast piet. And have never seen that in there. figured there must be a reason. Anyway, AL panel on the bottom sounds like a better idea. Thanks. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370194#370194 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
I really appreciate all the input. Now I'm going back to the removeable deck again. I like the idea of being able to peer down in there. Jim, the shoulder belt routing should not be affected by this at all. That bulkhead that has the hat box in it will still be there with the belt slots cut in it. The front bulkhead of the removeable portion would be open enough to allow the box to still be there and for the belts to run through. Think of a big C made of ply. As far as being too flimsy for the covering, that was the reason I cut off the original I built. This would have the same basic design, the primary difference is that it would be built on longerons of their own rather the plane's longerons. At any rate, if there is no structural/safety reason not to do it, then I will just build it up and see how the weight looks. From a praticality stand point, a 52 x 24 inch inspection hole is tough to beat. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370215#370215 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)centurylink.net>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
I made an aluminum sheet frame and cover it with fabric. It is not very heavy and seems to work fine. The picture is of the inside showing the frame. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 now covering and painting 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370219#370219 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a14_109.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "jimcarriere" <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
[quote="flea"] Jim, the shoulder belt routing should not be affected by this at all. That bulkhead that has the hat box in it will still be there with the belt slots cut in it. The front bulkhead of the removeable portion would be open enough to allow the box to still be there and for the belts to run through. Think of a big C made of ply.[/quote] Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstood your initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guest in the group.) Cheers Jim -------- Jim in NW FL Kitfox Series 7 in progress Rotec R2800 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370223#370223 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: fuse access
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Since you really don't need to access the fuselage behind the pilot's seat very often, I think it makes more sense to simply install a very thin aluminum sheet on the bottom of those first two bays. Really only adds a few ounces over cloth, and is very adequate for the occasional inspection, and it would certainly weigh less than a hinged turtledeck. Cool idea, but sounds unnecessarily gimmicky and kinda like over thinking a relatively "non-issue" item. $.02 (and worth every penny!) Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be better if. . .
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
jimcarriere wrote: > > Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstood your initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guest in the group.) > > Cheers > Jim Not at all. I am looking for input, if there is a safety (most important) reason for not doing it that I can't see, I want to know about it. Deviating from the plans in a significant way should involve engineering. I am not an engineer, so I have not deviated at all to this point. This one change has had me thinking for some time and asking for input. I really do appreciate this list and all the photos on westcoastpiet. These two sources have been of tremendous value. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370243#370243 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: This came in the mail
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there Sent from my iPhone

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Subject: Re: This came in the mail
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Congratulations!! On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there > > > Sent from my iPhone >

      >
      >
      > 
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: This came in the mail
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Outstanding, Ben! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: This came in the mail
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Ben, >From what I have seen in all the photos, you certainly deserve this! Congratulations. Ray Krause Building Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail > Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Sent from my iPhone >

      >
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      >
      > 
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: first flight
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Today I flew Pietenpol N110DL for the first time. It was flown by a friend,last year, the day before Hurricane Irene. Just two friends were there and the only picture we got was a 13 sec video. There were thousands of seagulls as witnesses, you can hear their voices in the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ&context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1Pp cFOwpmtyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4 I seem to have solved the sticking exhaust valve problem, by putting a little Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. The engine runs great now. The airplane handles well, but I need to get smoother air to really get the feel of it. Many thanks to all on the list who have given me good advice and encouragement, especially Jack Phillips. Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: first flight
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Great, Don! Glad to hear that you've finally gotten to fly your beautiful Pietenpol. Now you need to fly the time off so you can fly it to Brodhead and let everyone else see what a fine airplane you've built. Jacl Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald Lane Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: first flight Today I flew Pietenpol N110DL for the first time. It was flown by a friend,last year, the day before Hurricane Irene. Just two friends were there and the only picture we got was a 13 sec video. There were thousands of seagulls as witnesses, you can hear their voices in the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrfW4WaVMQ&context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1PpcFOwpm tyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4> &context=C4fc3695ADvjVQa1PpcFOwpmtyF8YdSrDkk5TXXrih7zfjGMGLFm4 I seem to have solved the sticking exhaust valve problem, by putting a little Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. The engine runs great now. The airplane handles well, but I need to get smoother air to really get the feel of it. Many thanks to all on the list who have given me good advice and encouragement, especially Jack Phillips. Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This came in the mail
From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" <curtdm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
Congratulations Ben! I can't wait to see it in person. Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370258#370258 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuse access
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 07, 2012
I'm good at creating non-issues then over thinking them. The hinge would be difficult anyway, there is a gentle curve in the fuse. Anyway, I will put this side trip on the back burner for a while. I know have other ideas to kick around, Aluminum sheet on the bottom for one. The idea was to make inspection and access easier. A flat sheet on the bottom does that just as well and is easier. For now I will work on some other things and let this simmer for a while. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370269#370269 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2012
From: Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: This came in the mail
very nice and congragulations !!!- You have great looking bird !!! --- On Sat, 4/7/12, Ben Charvet wrote: From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail Date: Saturday, April 7, 2012, 4:40 PM Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt there Sent from my iPhone

      
      ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
      ronics.com
      le, List Admin.
      www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: congrats Don!!
Date: Apr 08, 2012
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuse access
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2012
Jim; you don't really need to have it hinged. You can attach one side using piano hinge, yes, but then just have the long hinge wire looped on one end where you can just pull the wire and lift off the turtledeck. Loop goes forward. You don't want that wire working loose in flight and getting back into the tail surfaces ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370296#370296 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuse access
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2012
That is a good point, I really wouldn't anything to interfere with the rudder/elevator. That would ruin a day in a hurry. So I have been given opinions running the entire gauntlet, from Weight, KISS - why mess with it on the con side of the question and Flybaby does it so why not, use an aluminum plate on the bottom, and just pin it on there on the pro side. I assume the suggestion of the piano hinge pin is a suggestion in support of. So some things to think about then. I don't think the weight is a very big deal, the only added weight is in the weight of the two spruce longerons at 52" each. All other structure would be there even if built per plans; stringers and ply formers are there either way. Aluminum plate seems to confirm my idea of having a better inspection area than a 3.5 inch inspection ring. Although this idea goes through the bottom where presumably it is easier and cleaner to do. Anyway some thought, cause over thinking is what I do. I really do appreciate all the input, and I am not dismissing any of it just out of hand. I have never taken on a project like this before and certainly nothing where the stakes are so high. Nothing is dismissed, but ultimately a decision will be made. Jim. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370309#370309 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2012
From: "g. doe" <acmech46(at)yahoo.com>
I have taken a full set of struts off a Taylorcraft BC12-D because of the A D note now on Taylorcrafts and have heard people who build Pietenpols somet imes take Tcraft- struts and cut them down in the building, anyone intere sted?- Gary=0Ae-mail:- acmech46(at)yahoo.com=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No Title
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2012
Hello Gary, What are the minor and major axis measurements? How about the length? Thanks! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370323#370323 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 08, 2012
From: "g. doe" <acmech46(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: No Title
They are the original, smaller than what can be bought now, it's 9:30PM, wi ll measure them tomorrow after work and get back to you, Gary=0A=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0A From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>=0ATo: pi etenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 8:45 PM=0ASubject "Don Emch" =0A=0AHello Gary,=0A=0AWhat are the minor and m ajor axis measurements?- How about the length?=0A=0AThanks!=0ADon Emch=0A NX899DE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matro ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott L. Robison" <RobisonS(at)mattoonillinois.org>
Subject: GN1 for sale
Date: Apr 09, 2012
GN1 Aircamper project for sale on barnstormes. I can't find time to finish it. I would like to see it fly. Thanks... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuse access
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 08, 2012
Jim; The turtledeck cover could be a hinged or removable aluminum wrap rather than wooden stringers covered with fabric and it could be very light, even with some angle stiffeners on the inside. However, as others have noted, you will find that you sit on that area and brace your weight onto it with your hands when you enter and exit the cockpit. Aluminum tends to be unforgiving when you push it in past the point that it springs back. That's the thing about building these airplanes: you get to make your own calls on how it goes together, in thousands of little ways. Even two "per plans" Piets are never identical. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370345#370345 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The real bike Mike" <bkemike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: No Title
Date: Apr 08, 2012
Thanks, Gary. I think I'll let you sell them to someone closer. Mike _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g. doe Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title They are the original, smaller than what can be bought now, it's 9:30PM, will measure them tomorrow after work and get back to you, Gary _____ From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 8:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: No Title Hello Gary, What are the minor and major axis measurements? How about the length? Thanks! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370323#370323 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Real world gross wt/useful load
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Hi all- Doing due diligence on Piet's in preparation for a fall construction start. I'm seeing a lot of useful loads of 450 lbs. or so, most using the C-65. That's me, full fuel and...my 10 year old. I'm thinking about doing a 100 HP Corvair, long fuse, brakes, starter, normal instrumentation. Any way to reasonably predict useful load? I'd like to get to 530 lbs so I can take another adult pax with full fuel...any chance? Home runway is 9000' X 150' paved but I will be hitting grass strips. :D Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370371#370371 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This came in the mail
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Wonderful.... And a wood plaque no less.....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370373#370373 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Rob, My Piet weighs 655 lbs. I weigh 230(sometimes more), and I have taken a 210 lb. passenger for a ride on a 2800' DA day. No problems at all. A-65, 690' field elevation. Perry Rhoads N12939 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Real world gross wt/useful load > > Hi all- > > Doing due diligence on Piet's in preparation for a fall construction > start. > > I'm seeing a lot of useful loads of 450 lbs. or so, most using the C-65. > That's me, full fuel and...my 10 year old. > > I'm thinking about doing a 100 HP Corvair, long fuse, brakes, starter, > normal instrumentation. Any way to reasonably predict useful load? I'd > like to get to 530 lbs so I can take another adult pax with full > fuel...any chance? > > Home runway is 9000' X 150' paved but I will be hitting grass strips. :D > > Rob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370371#370371 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Rob, The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is to build it as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight down to 600 lbs or less, even with a 65HP Continental, your passenger carrying capacity will most likely be restricted to those that can get themselves into the front seat (but also depending on the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavy aircraft, you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraft may not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real option is to reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370380#370380 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
I will take some flak for this but the second best way to maximize the load carrying capability is to lose fat! I lost 30 lbs and my wife lost 15. That is 45 lbs of useful load! Now I have gained 15 back but she has lost 5 more. So we are still able to carry 35 more pounds than last year! My experience is that after 40 years old, exercise is important and helps lose weight and maintain health, but it is much less effective than it was before I was 40. The best way to lose weight is Diet, Diet , Diet Diet. Eat a lot of protein, good veggies and cut calories. Eat 5 or 6 smaller meals per day if possible. Breakfast like a king. Lunch like a Prince and Supper like a pauper. I eat a big egg substitute and turkey sausage breakfast, a mid morning snack, a good sized lunch, an afternoon snack, a good but light supper and a snack before bed. The snacks are usually cliff or protein bars. Before bed I have a protein drink. Eating colorful helps. I eat good food, but cut way down on bread and other high carb foods. I eat some fat, but nothing high in fat. Lots of vitimins and minerals. LOTs and Lots of protein. Remember the LSA max weight is 1320. I am sure that none of you would go over that, the plane will explode into flames. Y'all be careful out there. Blue Skies, Steve D True confessions, My real weaknesses are Icecream, Chips and salsa (Salsa is Good, Chips are bad!) BBQ (meat is Good, Sugary sauce is bad.) and fat laden sausage. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Date: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:45 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load > > Rob, > > The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is to build it as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight > down to 600 lbs or less, even with a 65HP Continental, your > passenger carrying capacity will most likely be restricted to those > that can get themselves into the front seat (but also depending on > the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavy aircraft, > you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraft > may not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real > option is to reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger. > > Bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370380#370380 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right, it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the days of losing 30 pounds in 3 months... This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest ways to trim down the weight on the Piet? Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370384#370384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
How about Ping Pong balls? Ducking and running! Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Skagit <ratkowskis(at)msn.com> Date: Monday, April 9, 2012 13:38 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load > > Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right, it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the > days of losing 30 pounds in 3 months... > > This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest > ways to trim down the weight on the Piet? > > Rob > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370384#370384 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Date: Apr 09, 2012
Easiest way to trim down the weight of a Piet is to get a smaller pilot. But seriously, the easiest way to trim weight is to build it to the plans, and avoid the following items which I added to mine and regret (most of them) 1. Use the split axle "Cub Style" (I don't like that term since it pre-dated the Cub by several years) gear with small, light wheels. I have wire wheels and a straight axle on mine and they add probably 20 lbs over the split axle gear. I like the look of the wire wheels, but that look comes with a price that I can't carry passengers out of short fields on hot days 2. Build the short fuselage and don't add any extra width to it. I'm 6' 2" and 200 lbs, so I naturally built the long fuselage, and added an inch to its width. Probably added another 20 lbs, with the extra spruce, plywood, fabric and paint. Totally unnecesary. I have flown Mike Cuy's Piet with its short fuselage and fit in it just fine. And I flew Ryan Mueller's/John Hofmann's Pietenpol from Tennessee to Brodhead fitting in it just fine (and by the way, it is the archetype of what I was saying earlier - build it to the plans just like that Pietenpol, N502R, which John calls "Five-Oh-Two-Rocket"). 3. Use the lightweight grade of dacron fabric, at least for the tail and fuselage. I would use it for the entire airplane. Not only is the fabric itself lighter, but it takes less PolyBrush or dope or whatever system you are using to fill the weave. Would probably save at least 10 lbs. 4. DO NOT USE POLYURETHANE PAINT. It looks nice, but it is expensive, very difficult to repair (and yes, if you own your plane long enough you will need to repair the fabric at some point), and it is VERY heavy. Because it is difficult to apply, I ended up with several coats on the fuselage. I weighed my plane before covering and after painting and was appalled to find that in the covering and painting process it gained 65 lbs. Most of that was paint. 5. Don't add a radio or a transponder or a battery or any of those "improvements", but if you always fly with a handheld radio, figure it into your empty weight. Mine weighs 745 lbs empty, so it weighs about 110 lbs more than I had estimated when I was building it. As was stated before, if you can keep the weight down to around 600 - 650 lbs, you will have a fine flying airplane. Mine flies well, but its climb is not spectacular. I have to cross the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Allegheny Mountains each year on the way to Brodhead and there have been times that I've been struggling to get over a 5,000' ridge climbing at max rate of climb and losing altitude in a downdraft. Not fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skagit Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right, it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the days of losing 30 pounds in 3 months... This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest ways to trim down the weight on the Piet? Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370384#370384 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2012
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Lightweight vs medium dacron...
Would it make sense to use lightweight everywhere (which is what I am using) but beef up the fuse bottom a bit by covering it with medium weight? I keep imagining landing in a field with sticks and stuff sticking up through the bottom of that lightweight covering. Would it actually be more "puncture proof" than the light weight material? (I'm thinking not...) Jim in Pryor.... >3. Use the lightweight grade of dacron fabric, at least for the tail and >fuselage. I would use it for the entire airplane. Not only is the fabric >itself lighter, but it takes less PolyBrush or dope or whatever system you >are using to fill the weave. Would probably save at least 10 lbs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 09, 2012
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Lightweight vs medium dacron...
I used the light weight fabric thruout and you would be amazed at how strong it is under two coats of latex. And that is what I am am going to do on my rebuild. I am almost ready to cover my two new wings. Also I have aluminium panels on the bottom of fuse for access. My tail feathers are covered. Hopefully everything will be ready to fly for Brodhead. If not then I will drive. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 7:06:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lightweight vs medium dacron... Would it make sense to use lightweight everywhere (which is what I am using) but beef up the fuse bottom a bit by covering it with medium weight? I keep imagining landing in a field with sticks and stuff sticking up through the bottom of that lightweight covering. Would it actually be more "puncture proof" than the light weight material? (I'm thinking not...) Jim in Pryor.... >3. Use the lightweight grade of dacron fabric, at least for the tail and >fuselage. I would use it for the entire airplane. Not only is the fabric >itself lighter, but it takes less PolyBrush or dope or whatever system you >are using to fill the weave. Would probably save at least 10 lbs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 100LL Additive
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Hello all.. I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance Larry (KLNC) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Rob - I've got the Piet you're talking about building. I'm the manufacturer so I get to set the gross weight: 1200 lbs. You can set yours wherever you want. I suspect that there are lots of Piets that have flown successfully and frequently at more than 1200 lbs, though I'm not recommending that. My empty weight is 760 giving a useful load of 440. The one thing I truly wish I had is more fuel. It's got the stock tank. Not enough. I need 3 more gallons. The plane flies quite well at gross and flies enthusiastically with just me. Bill's right about the physical constraints of the front seat limiting you more than the passenger weight. Jack has flown more Piets than anyone I know of. He's very enthusiastic about the simple, to-the-plans, short fuselage Hoffman aircraft. Plus he's an experienced tail-dragger pilot and he's flown his own Piet a bunch and is very frank about what he'd do different on his next Piet. Listen to the people who have built successfully and fly a bunch. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370439#370439 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been a few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend it Sent from my iPhone On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout" wrote: > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
I second Ben's statement. Dan On 04/10/2012 09:15 AM, Ben Charvet wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet > > I sometimes add mmo to my fuel. Usually 2 ounces per 5 gal. There have been a few articles about the questionable benefits but lots of the old hands recommend it > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "TriScout" wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TriScout" >> >> Hello all.. >> >> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. >> >> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. >> >> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance >> >> Larry (KLNC) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TriScout <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:03 Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, > and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for > the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 > octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and > do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the > 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either missing or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO (inconsistently) in both my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and have had no issues with lead fouling in either. I don't run mogas much (though we do have it on tap at the airport) as I find my idle inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines either. No reason not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75 at 2400-2450. Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets stay with me. Must be my svelte figure. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > > TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. > > http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ > > I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. > > Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. > > I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. > > Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TriScout <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> > Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:03 > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >> >> Hello all.. >> >> I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. >> >> Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. >> >> I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, >> and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for >> the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 >> octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and >> do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the >> 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance >> >> Larry (KLNC) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
I have an old no-longer kitchen-worthy metal 1/4-cup measure that lives in the baggage box of the Cub. One unit measure of MMO gets dumped into my tank when I fill it with 100-LL. Normally a top-off for me is 6-8 gallons, so I suppose I'm running cloe to the same proportions as Ben, maybe a nudge thinner. FWIW, MMO is not an officially-approved additive, at least for standard-type. "Everybody's doing it" has never been one of my acceptable reasons for anything, but when I first started using it, a lot of people who'd been around airplanes a lot longer than I were doing it regularly. I've never seen an accident report attributable to MMO in avgas, so I'll worry about the beaurocrats and lawyers if/when that time ever comes. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann Sent: Apr 10, 2012 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive Small Continentals usually have the mixture control inoperative, either missing or safetied full rich. I run the same amount of MMO (inconsistently) in both my Cub (A-75) and 502Rocket (A-65) as Ben and have had no issues with lead fouling in either. I don't run mogas much (though we do have it on tap at the airport) as I find my idle inconsistent and it stinks. I don't "loaf" my engines either. No reason not to cruise at 2150 for the 65 and I usually cruise the A-75 at 2400-2450. Although I do have to throttle back to let the speed challenged Piets stay with me. Must be my svelte figure. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: TCP has been used to prevent lead fouling for years. Here is a link to the maker. http://www.alcorinc.com/index.php/products/tcp-fuel-additive-qt/ I have never used it. I put nothing in my 100LL When I fly with 100LL. I make sure I run as lean as is reasonable and run the engine up before flight and before shutdown to deal with lead on the plugs. I do this on my Early Vtail Bonanza E-185 (just a really big 6 jug continental) and did it on my O-200 Cessna. I run Autofuel in one tank and 100LL in the other. Takeoff and land on 100LL and cruise on Autofuel. Flying my buddies 65 HP Aeronca Champ, we try to run Autofuel. I get mid or higher grade, I have had problems with knock using the lower octane regular. (Note OCTANE ratings for the old 80 octane avgas and for unleaded autofuel use a different octane rating system and autofuel has much looser standards than Aviation standards. I have used Marvel when I run Autogas according to the directions on the can, not every time, but most of the time. Marvel is really nothing but a light weight oil with some solvent and perfume. As for me, I believe. Note Autofuel is not near as stable as 100LL. 100LL is good for a couple of years in storage if not contaminated. Autogas can go bad (begin to separate) in as little as 3 months. Autogas can have many different formulas. When in doubt, I pump the autogas into my car or lawnmower. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TriScout <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:03 Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive Hello all.. I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery Oil) for an A65-8? .. I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find it. I now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am hearing from some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for the smell of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to just run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance Larry (KLNC) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg
="=======================From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Subject: Re: Real world weight/useful load
Rob, I guess I'd have to second what Jack Plillips wrote, and i preface what I'm going to say by pointing out that Jack's Piet is one of the nicest looking, and most beautifully crafted that you'll see. My Piet was built using pretty much all the suggestions he gave. Mine is short fuselage with the split axle gear, 5.00X5 Cleveland wheels and brakes, no added equipment such as radios or batteries, finished with Polytone, which is less shiny than the Polyurethanes but certainly attractive. Like Jack, I have the Continental A-65. My empty weight is 634 lbs, or was when the weight and balance were done last year. I'm guessing it's a few pounds heavier now because I reworked the bungee shock struts and now have die spring struts. Those springs are heavier than the bungee cords. The only thing I didn't do was to use the lighter weight fabric. Matt Paxton NX629ML ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Real world weight/useful load
If not already mentioned, the steel tube fuselage, I believe is lighter the n the all wood fuselage.- You may also choose to use aluminum wing and ca bane struts in place of steel. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com =0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 10, 2012
I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Real world weight/useful load
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Good stuff. Thanks all. Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370459#370459 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hinge Lugs
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
Somebody help me out here... I'm just not seeing the purpose. Why are the holes drilled 1/8" off center? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370465#370465 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hingelugs_113.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hinge Lugs
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 10, 2012
That's an easy one, Mark. The holes are drilled 1/8" off center because that's what the plans show. I thought you would have known that by now. Actually, I assume that the eccentricity would be called for to provide a bit of clearance. Those lugs get ground flat on one side, as required, for alignment. At assembly, the gear is held together with 5/16" bolts. If the holes were drilled on center, it would probably be a bit snug to get a wrench over the bolt/nut. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370467#370467 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 10, 2012
No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom and wont mix. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? > > -------- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
I always put it in before filling, so the filling action would mix it in. Like you do with dry gas, for those fortunate enough to live in a climate where they know what that even is. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> >Sent: Apr 10, 2012 6:42 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the bottom >and wont mix. >Dick N. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >> >> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
The Marvel Mystery Oil *will* settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. Ben On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if > you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can > very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA > chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater > and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 10, 2012
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Question for GN-1 drivers
Could you tell me where your engine thrust line is with respect to the top of the top longeron? I'm in the process of building my engine mount and I can't find it referenced in either the "new" or the original plans. Thanks, John Franklin Prairie Aire 4TA0 GN-1 / Corvair ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 10, 2012
I've never used MMO in aircraft fuel but have used it in automobile fuel. In an auto, I just poured the MMO into the tank and then added 10 gallons of fuel. A fried of mine (an aircraft mechanic) says he puts MMO in the fuel of every reciprocating engine he uses at a rate of one small can of MMO to 10 gallons of gasoline. C ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick N To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: update on NX53WE
Date: Apr 10, 2012
We finished the painting and will start putting the gear on today. We ordered all new bolts and nuts for everything so all will pass inspection and look good. We started august 2010 so our progress has been good.I figured about 2200 hours so far,(I am retired) It is yellow and a medium blue from stewart system,expensive but it looks good with a nice shine.The wheels are 21 inch all stainless steel with ash gear and I fiberglassed the gear so it looks great. I will send pictures when we progress a little more. It is starting to get exciting now. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Never saw a problem when applied...E-2, J-2, J-3, Tri-Pacer, Bamboo Bomber, but then always applied at fueling, so the sloshing should take care of that... On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Dick N wrote: > > No , it sat there and didnt mix. Try it, I did, it sits there on the > bottom and wont mix. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:05 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > >> > >> >> Hard to believe that. Did it gel in the gas? >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=370462#370462> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Hinge Lugs
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Mark, what Bill said... Jack Textor DSM NX1929T -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hinge Lugs Somebody help me out here... I'm just not seeing the purpose. Why are the holes drilled 1/8" off center? -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370465#370465 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hingelugs_113.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2012
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. Ben On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: update on NX53WE
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Great news, Bob, Where are you located? Will we see this Pietenpol at Brodhead this year? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob edson Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on NX53WE We finished the painting and will start putting the gear on today. We ordered all new bolts and nuts for everything so all will pass inspection and look good. We started august 2010 so our progress has been good.I figured about 2200 hours so far,(I am retired) It is yellow and a medium blue from stewart system,expensive but it looks good with a nice shine.The wheels are 21 inch all stainless steel with ash gear and I fiberglassed the gear so it looks great. I will send pictures when we progress a little more. It is starting to get exciting now. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: fuel additives
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Just to cloud the issue a bit. I know Lowell, who has many, many hours on many engines uses a small amount (don't remember the amount) of synthetic two cycle oil in his fuel and has had very good luck with it. Just passing on info, never tried it myself. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 04/10/12
Date: Apr 11, 2012
> > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 100LL Additive > From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com> > > > Hello all.. > > I'm sure it's been talked about time and time again,.. but.. > > Does anyone have a recommended amount of additive (i.e. Marvel Mystery > Oil) for > an A65-8? .. > > I was looking on the Harry Fenton webpage for an answer, but didn't find > it. I > now have several 'sorties' on my machine, running just 100LL, and am > hearing from > some folk at my workplace that it's good for the motor to put some sort of > additive if I don't have the 80 octane available. I don't care much for > the smell > of autogas, and do not wish to hoard it to the airport, so I prefer to > just > run the 100LL w/an additive..thx in advance > > Larry (KLNC) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370438#370438 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/n2308c_472.jpg > > > >> >> >> After pulling the head off and the valves out of my Ford A, because I had exhaust valves sticking, if I didn't run it at least once a week. I couldn't find any thing wrong, reassembled it and am now running 2 oz to 5 gal 100LL, and it runs fine???? I don't really believe in additives, but I'm sticking with it. Thanks for the tip, on mixing. I just dumped a 1/4 cup of MMO in a full 5 Gal can last night and thought it would mix itself riding in the pickup. I will split it into 2 cans and shake it up good. Don in Minnesott Beach NC> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Certainly easy enough to find out by setting up an in home lab 3 clear glass (flint glass) jars with lids of the same capacity say 32 ounces. Establish a scale of 1 oz is = to a gallon fill each with 16 oz of fuel. Jar 1 add the mmo directly to the fuel in the recommended proportion with no mixing or agitation of any type screw the lid on and let stand undisturbed Jar 2 add the same amount of fuel and mmo and agitate vigorously cap and set next to jar 1 Jar 3 is your control same amount of fuel and no mmo cap and store next to jar 2 Let all 3 stand for upon placement on the shelf and without movement observe the jars making note of disbursement or non disbursement , color striations and locations in the jar top bottom and middle Next wait 1 hour and reexamine as in the first notation Re examine in 4 hours same methodology Reexamine in 24 hours same methodology Reexamine in 1 week same Methodology At the end of the experiment you should know if it is immediately soluble in gas without agitation and the crash data is suspect Agitation puts it into suspension that is permanent or temporary and how well the mixture remains in suspension or does it precipitate out and settle at the bottom Observe the control for any stray precipitates that may be present in the fuel Obviously this cam be made more sophisticated by using calibrated glass ware and accurate scales and specific gravity instrumentation This however is not rocket science but a simple experiment to identify how mmo acts in the fuel tank John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Jim Ash wrote: > > I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Charvet > Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil > > The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. > > Ben > On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > > > > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Mags in classified
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Saw these mags on our local classified.... Don't know anything about them but thought I would pass it on. Could be used for parts or possibly boat anchors. I have no affiliation with seller or the ad. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=19926356&cat=151&lpid=&se arch Brian SLC-UT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Question for GN-1 drivers
Date: Apr 11, 2012
John, The thrust line on Felix is even with the top longeron. I believe a stock J3 engine mount was used on my plane, this puts the engine mount flange about 7" forward of the fire wall. If I were building an engine mount for a GN1 that distance would be 11" to 13". That would help with W&B and make it alot easier to safty the oil screen. Skip > [Original Message] > From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> > To: Piet_List > Date: 4/10/2012 9:01:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for GN-1 drivers > > > Could you tell me where your engine thrust line is with respect to the top of the top longeron? I'm in the process of building my engine mount and I can't find it referenced in either the "new" or the original plans. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > GN-1 / Corvair > > ________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 11, 2012
I suggest one more test. Since it may not be a matter of suspension vs solution, you might also want to perform a strainer test at the end of the series to determine whether any precipitate is captured on a gascolator screen from jars 1 and 2. Greg Chapman -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Amsafetyc Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil Certainly easy enough to find out by setting up an in home lab 3 clear glass (flint glass) jars with lids of the same capacity say 32 ounces. Establish a scale of 1 oz is = to a gallon fill each with 16 oz of fuel. Jar 1 add the mmo directly to the fuel in the recommended proportion with no mixing or agitation of any type screw the lid on and let stand undisturbed Jar 2 add the same amount of fuel and mmo and agitate vigorously cap and set next to jar 1 Jar 3 is your control same amount of fuel and no mmo cap and store next to jar 2 Let all 3 stand for upon placement on the shelf and without movement observe the jars making note of disbursement or non disbursement , color striations and locations in the jar top bottom and middle Next wait 1 hour and reexamine as in the first notation Re examine in 4 hours same methodology Reexamine in 24 hours same methodology Reexamine in 1 week same Methodology At the end of the experiment you should know if it is immediately soluble in gas without agitation and the crash data is suspect Agitation puts it into suspension that is permanent or temporary and how well the mixture remains in suspension or does it precipitate out and settle at the bottom Observe the control for any stray precipitates that may be present in the fuel Obviously this cam be made more sophisticated by using calibrated glass ware and accurate scales and specific gravity instrumentation This however is not rocket science but a simple experiment to identify how mmo acts in the fuel tank John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Jim Ash wrote: > > I suppose the question becomes the solubility of MMO in gasoline. Does it truly dissolve, or does it just break up in suspension then separate back out? I dunno. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Charvet > Sent: Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil > > The Marvel Mystery Oil will settle to the bottom of the tank if you pour it indirectly. I always add it to my 5 gal jug of ethanol free mogas. I sumped the tank on my old Baby Ace once after adding MMO and the sample smelled like MMO. > > Ben > On 4/10/2012 2:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > > > > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > > > -- > Ben Charvet, PharmD > Staff Pharmacist > Parrish Medical center > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hinge Lugs
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Thanks guys... I also got a phone call from one of our experienced builders/fliers that explained it the same way. What I didn't realize, or must have overlooked is that the outer two are turned 180* to the inner lug... makes perfect sense now. Jack... your work is superb. Your photos are always very clear and the fitment and welding is as nice as I've ever seen. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370532#370532 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science
and mixtures easily enough done with a paint filter pre weight and post weight but not certain if anyone has a gram-matic enclosed or beam balance to be able to calculate the residue retained in the filter. Obviously the accuracy is a matter of available equipment its sensitivity and parameters of operation along with calibration information Juss sayin Not Rocket science, not even close: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKQpMoplYk_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKQpMoplYk) John ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical
science and mixtures
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Apr 11, 2012
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From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical
science and mixtures
Date: Apr 11, 2012
As far as I know, only one of those flies and that one doesn't have any valves or gascolators to worry about. Greg Chapman From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gboothe5(at)comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Marvel mystery oil analytical methods of physical science and mixtures Y'all are trying to take the 'mystery' out of Marvel Mystery Oil. Why? Are we also to discover the truth behind Santa Claus...Easter Rabbit...Leprechauns? Where does it end? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hinge Lugs
From: "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Mark and Kevin, thanks for the kind words. You should see the 4130 in the t rash... Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Apr 11, 2012, at 9:17 AM, "K5YAC" wrote: > > Thanks guys... I also got a phone call from one of our experienced builder s/fliers that explained it the same way. What I didn't realize, or must hav e overlooked is that the outer two are turned 180* to the inner lug... makes perfect sense now. > > Jack... your work is superb. Your photos are always very clear and the fi tment and welding is as nice as I've ever seen. > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370532#370532 > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > >

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Steerable tailwheel or swivel?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Moving down the list of design decisions... In the interest of saving weight, would it be feasible to use brake control for steering and forgo a steerable tailwheel? Or do the benefits of a steerable tailwheel outweigh the weight savings? (Outweigh the weight? There's a joke there somewhere, I just can't find it at the moment...) Thanks again, --Rob 8) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370555#370555 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it directly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runway and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank that should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge up pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn't clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swirling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling stories for something to do.... Ryan On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > ** > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you > choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. > I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a > couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and > not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: Steerable tailwheel or swivel?
Rob, A fixed or steerable tailwheel are far better than a swiveling tailwheel. T he last thing you ever want to fly is a fully-swiveling tailwheel. You're not going to save any w eight with a steerable vs. swiveling tailwheel. If you're really looking to save weight use a ta ilskid as per the plans but that has its own set of limitations. To me a steerable tailwheel is the only way to go on a Pietenpol where you intend to fly out of paved strips. May I ask if you've flown any conventional gear aircraft yet Rob? Mike C. There are a few choices of tailwheels here to look at: http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9051/index.htm l This is what I purchased and use on my Pietenpol. For some reason this tai lwheel came out of 'steerable' mode way too easily and nearly caused me to wreck my plane o n one of my first few landings when it kicked out of steerable mode into full-swivel mode. It is only supposed to kick out of steerable mode at very slow speeds when you apply full rudde r and or differential braking to pivot around one wheel in tight quarters or around gas pumps. To me the danger of this full-swivel option was so great that I took the th ing apart and saw how the mechanism worked and quickly ground out a detent for a spring-loade d locking pin so it would basically always and forever be just a totally steerable-only tailwhe el. After 450 flying hours during the last 14 years I've had no more issues wit h it and find it turns tightly enough for my wishes, even on narrow runways when I want to do a 18 0 degree turn. [cid:image005.jpg(at)01CD1804.684B6600] [cid:image006.jpg(at)01CD1804.684B6600] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: old wives tales
I have to agree with Ryan Mueller on the Marvel Mystery Oil stories as I've been using the stuff in my fuel and oil in A-65's in my old Champ and Piet since 1989 with no issues at all. You can't be adding gobs of the stuff but even if you did I'd have to beli eve it would still flow thru (even raw) a gascolator screen. The very best things we can do are drain, inspect, and remove and blow clea n our gascolator screens yearly on inspection and the little carb screen on the small Continentals. This screen is often overl ooked but it worth taking a look-see at especially if you see lots of crud in your gascolator screen. Water I think is the bigger culprit of any contamination with condensation on high humidity nights or parked overnight in a little rain shower. Gotta drain the thing before flying for sure and take a good look for water. Mike C. The carb thimble-type screen is located right under that hex nut on the rig ht side of the carb that is safety-wired. That screen is the last chance department for filtering fuel before it sees the bowl/float area. [cid:image003.jpg(at)01CD1807.04F05770] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Overkill...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the control torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing surface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like this in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/_lathe_689.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: Steve Emo <steve.emo58(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
It has been said one test is worth 1000 opinions. I have been using MMO for over a year plus and no problem. I used it to try to reduce the carbon bui ld up, not anything to do with lead fouling. I like the test recommendation . I will also add a word of caution about nonAV gas. It has a max octane r ating life of 6 months. MMO does nothing to extend auto gas life. I would a sk if the J3 were using autofuel. Steve On Apr 11, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it dir ectly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runwa y and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank th at should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge u p pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn' t clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swir ling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling storie s for something to do.... > > Ryan > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: > I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a coupl e of crashes of J-3's using MMO. > The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. > Dick N. > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 11, 2012
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Overkill...
Jake...Jake...Jake....Be prepared for a keyboard lashing from the Pietenpol Police! All you needed was a small "oiling hole" in the top of the bushing. 80+ years and no reported 'corrosion' in the per-plans projects. Gary from Cool ----- Original Message ----- From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:33:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the control torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing surface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like this in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/_lathe_689.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Subject: Tony Bingelis on fuel systems, lines, tanks
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Subject: Re: Overkill...
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 11, 2012
A "few onces" here, a "few ounces" there,......pretty soon it all adds up t o real weight!! To quote an eloquent charactor from a famous, timeless mot ion picture movie,... "We don'need no stink'n oiling hole"! I don't believe my plans show an "oiling hole" there. Just a one-time greasing should take care of it. Stick to the plans!!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: gboothe5 <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 4:48 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Jake...Jake...Jake....Be prepared for a keyboard lashing from the Pietenpol Police! All you needed was a small "oiling hole" in the top of the bushing . 80+ years and no reported 'corrosion' in the per-plans projects. Gary from Cool From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:33:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Overkill... Hello good Piet-ple, I guess anything worth doing is worth over-doing... My welder and I were a bit apprehensive about steel-on-steel for the contro l torque tube, so i machined up a couple bronze bushings that snug fit into the tube. (I will be drilling a hole through the tube and bushing for a 3/ 16 bolt that will hold the bushing in place) You can see how the bearing su rface will now be bronze-on-steel instead of steel-on-steel. Yes I know, it's overkill and this change adds a few ounces, but corrosion should never be an issue and it's fun....! Having a great time with the project in general and little details like thi s in particular...! High regards.......! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370561#370561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_2_196.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bushing_1_550.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a_bushings_414.jpg http://forums.matronics.co== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 100LL Additive
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Thanks Guys..for all the discussion. I'm liking the TCP treatment option that Steve D. linked. It's shows FAA approved on the label, which kinda takes the guesswork out of it. I'm thinking even if I put about half the recommended additive in w/100LL, it's gotta be better than not putting anything in. Not that I've had any problems w/out additive so far, but the A65 was originally meant for 80 Octain.. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370572#370572 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Overkill...
From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Thanks... I plan to add an OUNCE sixteen times an then take a POUNDing on this forum - ha!! Actually very aware of weight - making conscious choices along the way to save in most places and only add when I make a conscious choice to do so.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370576#370576 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel or swivel?
From: "Skagit" <ratkowskis(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Got it...steerable. That looks like a nice setup. I've done a few hours in a Decathalon, but it was years ago. Never finished my tailwheel endorsement. Stay tuned for more rookie questions... Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370583#370583 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 11, 2012
Ryan Like has been said before, You fly your and I will fly mine. Best luck to you. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel mystery oil No offense, but that sounds like old wive's tales. Even if you pour it directly into the tank without adding the fuel, the act of taxiing to the runway and the vibration of the engine is going to cause agitation in the tank that should disperse the additive. And either way....MMO would have to sludge up pretty well to clog the input fitting on the gascolator....and if it didn't clog until it was in the gascolator, what would be so different about swirling around in the gascolator than in the tank? Just old guys telling stories for something to do.... Ryan On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Dick N wrote: I am going to give a word of caution on MMO. When adding it to gas if you choose to, add it to a small amount of gas and shake up the can very well. I have been told by a couple of older men from my EAA chapter about a couple of crashes of J-3's using MMO. The cause of the crashes was the MMO going directely to the gascolater and not alowing fuel to get thru. Dick N. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 12, 2012
First one has to think about the product and the company. Would they sell a product that would congeal in fuel as stated above? Not really, I would think if they did the company would have closed a long time ago. MMO is simply just a naphtha based solvent. Therefore mixes well with gasoline. Second, MMO is high in detergents and do a good cleaning job, possibility that problems people have maybe do to the suspension of the dissolved solids in the gas which can lead to clog fuel filters and strainers making one think its the MMO product itself. Many pilots and mechanics use it, even at the field where I fly, from a DC3 to all the flight training Cubs. One has ever had any issues with MMO. .... old wives's tale and hanger talk, defiantly. JMHO -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370595#370595 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 12, 2012
One also has to remember that there are rules in chemistry that dictate mixing order of substances. First comes safety add acid to water not water to acid. It's called reactivity, additionally the order in which chemicals are combined my adversely impact the resultant mixture and instead of a dispersion you end up with rocks. For the desired result one must follow the mix sequence as in a specific recipe. It is entirely possible for a substance to congeal if it is not mixed properly or in the proper order. Unless you're mixing tap water with tap water. We all being people of science would prefer to debate anecdotal information forever rather than to conduct simple scientific research (a lab )and acquire exact information that accepts the notion or refutes it once and for all! Ahhhhh yes sweet resolution learning the answer is not quite as much fun as beating the issue to death and allowing it to come up again in 6 or so months for another endless round of debate John Sent from my iPhone On Apr 12, 2012, at 8:13 AM, "womenfly2" wrote: > > First one has to think about the product and the company. Would they sell a product that would congeal in fuel as stated above? Not really, I would think if they did the company would have closed a long time ago. MMO is simply just a naphtha based solvent. Therefore mixes well with gasoline. > > Second, MMO is high in detergents and do a good cleaning job, possibility that problems people have maybe do to the suspension of the dissolved solids in the gas which can lead to clog fuel filters and strainers making one think its the MMO product itself. > > Many pilots and mechanics use it, even at the field where I fly, from a DC3 to all the flight training Cubs. One has ever had any issues with MMO. > > .... old wives's tale and hanger talk, defiantly. > > JMHO > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370595#370595 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ellery voge <elleryvoge(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Best info. so far on this subject. ELV > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > From: Love2Fly.KAP(at)gmail.com > Date: Thu=2C 12 Apr 2012 05:13:29 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > First one has to think about the product and the company. Would they sell a product that would congeal in fuel as stated above? Not really=2C I woul d think if they did the company would have closed a long time ago. MMO is s imply just a naphtha based solvent. Therefore mixes well with gasoline. > > Second=2C MMO is high in detergents and do a good cleaning job=2C possibi lity that problems people have maybe do to the suspension of the dissolved solids in the gas which can lead to clog fuel filters and strainers making one think its the MMO product itself. > > Many pilots and mechanics use it=2C even at the field where I fly=2C from a DC3 to all the flight training Cubs. One has ever had any issues with MM O. > > .... old wives's tale and hanger talk=2C defiantly. > > JMHO > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370595#370595 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil
John, you must remember "No horse is ever so dead that it cannot be beaten some more!" ;+} Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Amsafetyc <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:23 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Marvel mystery oil > > One also has to remember that there are rules in chemistry that dictate mixing order of substances. First comes safety add acid to water > not water to acid. It's called reactivity, additionally the order > in which chemicals are combined my adversely impact the resultant > mixture and instead of a dispersion you end up with rocks. > > For the desired result one must follow the mix sequence as in a > specific recipe. It is entirely possible for a substance to congeal > if it is not mixed properly or in the proper order. Unless you're > mixing tap water with tap water. > > We all being people of science would prefer to debate anecdotal > information forever rather than to conduct simple scientific > research (a lab )and acquire exact information that accepts the > notion or refutes it once and for all! > > Ahhhhh yes sweet resolution learning the answer is not quite as > much fun as beating the issue to death and allowing it to come up > again in 6 or so months for another endless round of debate > > John > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 12, 2012, at 8:13 AM, "womenfly2" < wrote: > > > > > First one has to think about the product and the company. Would they sell a product that would congeal in fuel as stated above? Not really, I would think if they did the company would have closed a long time ago. MMO is simply just a naphtha based solvent. Therefore mixes well with gasoline. > > > > Second, MMO is high in detergents and do a good cleaning job, possibility that problems people have maybe do to the suspension of the dissolved solids in the gas which can lead to clog fuel filters and strainers making one think its the MMO product itself. > > > > Many pilots and mechanics use it, even at the field where I fly, from a DC3 to all the flight training Cubs. One has ever had any issues with MMO. > > > > .... old wives's tale and hanger talk, defiantly. > > > > JMHO > > > > -------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370595#370595 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wings On!
From: "cjborsuk" <cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Good news - Bad news. Had to sell the house with the great basement workshop, but moved the shop and Piet out to the airport. Took awhile to get resettled and back at it. Special thanks to Curt Merdan who helped me move the wings and fuse from a friends basement to the hanger! You gotta love Piet People!! Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370632#370632 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/curt_and_chuck_photo_665.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_purtee_look_110.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_2_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_443.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Subject: Re: Wings On!
In a message dated 4/12/2012 9:49:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjborsuk(at)yahoo.com writes: _http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_2_211.jpg_ (http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_2_211.jpg) You got to love it when you sprout wings and you're in a hangar it finally feels like a real airplane rather than a pipe dream or some sort of folly. Its a real airplane and not the canoe everyine else thought it was. She looks great, congratulations on the move. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil OFF LIST
Great comment,for a good evening laugh I enjoyed it and certainly true. For as much as the same issues get beaten into the ground with no resolution in sight, makes me krazy, With the way things get beaten beyond death you would think all Piet builders were women! No can we please talk about ground planes and antennas for hand held radios, please Ii so enjoyed that whole never ending debate and i do miss it so! Please one more time and maybe adhesives along the way to round out the discussion on riblet air foils and sticking to the plans. all such great topics and hours or enlightenment and enjoyment rereading the same arguments. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 12, 2012
Subject: Re: Marvel mystery oil OFF LIST
hit the wrong reply button for an off list reply. Ill be waiting for the flames in response to my sarcasm in my un intended public reply. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wings On!
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Looking good, Chuck. Looks like you'll have the first retractable gear Pietenpol. Might be able to get a 75 mph cruise. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjborsuk Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wings On! Good news - Bad news. Had to sell the house with the great basement workshop, but moved the shop and Piet out to the airport. Took awhile to get resettled and back at it. Special thanks to Curt Merdan who helped me move the wings and fuse from a friends basement to the hanger! You gotta love Piet People!! Chuck Raleigh NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370632#370632 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/curt_and_chuck_photo_665.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_purtee_look_110.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_2_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wings_on_443.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: on beating dead horses...
Date: Apr 13, 2012
I for one actually am not bothered by some of these topics that bet beaten around for a few days, as long as they stay constructive. After all, isn't that the process of discussion and exchanging ideas, opinions and information? There inherently HAS to be a back and forth and in an email format with so many people involved, it will likely get kinda long sometimes on some complicated or hazy issues. Clearly, different people have had different experiences and hold different opinions and have different information and levels of knowledge regarding fuel additives. I am sure the people who have seen a slug of MMO aren't making it up, that would be a sobering thing to see prior to takeoff.who are we to say they're just spreading "old wives stories" simply because we've never seen the same thing. Heck, I've never seen Pluto, but if someone says they have, why would I assume they're telling "stories"?? Now WHY that slug of MMO was there is a whole different question, maybe it wasn't mixed right, maybe it was other stuff that the MMO shook loose, who knows. One thing I do know is that if someone has information about something that they believe MAY clog my fuel system. I would be grateful if they would share it with me. I'm also grateful to those who have suggested correct ways of using additives because I'd prefer not to have any sticking valves in flight either. So again, unless people are just being emo and hurling juvenile put-downs back and forth, I think the constructive exchange of information is very helpful, even though with some complex issues it might run on a bit. If the occasional dead horse gets beaten for a few days too long, one can always not watch. As always $.02 Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dangerous Daves Piet?
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo(at)rmdbenders.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Does anybody know how his plane is flying? I followed his speedy build on here up until the first few flights and then he must have dropped off the list.....I am just wondering how his plane is performing, it seemed like he was a bit disappointed with it, but i would like to hear more. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled less covering Mistubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370669#370669 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2012
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Hand-held antenna
I have a Diamond SRHF40A antenna that I use paragliding and I have easily c ommunicated with others 15-20 miles away. The few occaissions I have used a radio in the Piet were with the rubber ducky antenna and it was fine for m y needs. I don't understand why a more sophisticated system is needed for t he kind of flying the Piet was intended for. - Agnes - - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Revisited
Pietsters: I know this thread has already come and gone (probably several times) but, as usual, I am a little out of sync with the flow. However, I have been working on my instrument panel and thought you might like a look-see at one that has "too many" instruments on it. Outside row (from left): fuel, tach, amps, vertical compass, oil press, oil temp, dual CHT Inside row: airspeed, altimeter, X-Com radio bottom: slip indicator sub panel: start switch, (fuses missing), ignition, hour meter It took several tries before I was able to find a place where the instruments would not interfere with the cross bracing cables, aileron cables (not shown) and the shoulder harness frame that you can just see in the background and still leave room for all the wiring, etc. to get them hooked up. I won an e-bay auction for some burled walnut veneer and this was my first attempt at book matching. The vertical seam that you can see so clearly in this photo does not show up nearly as well in normal lighting. There is a second seam running up through the X-Com radio that you can just barely see. One note on the X-Com radio: Yes, I know it is pricy BUT...It weighs less than one pound and fits easily in a 2" instrument hole so it is lighter and not in the way like a hand held. I purchased the install kit which comes with a wiring harness and tuned antenna which I mounted underneath the helmet box below the turtledeck to preserve the "antique" look. Before you mention it, YES, I know I left the key on so the battery will probably be run down when I buy it. Tom Stinemetze N328X (only two more years to go. 8>) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Revisited
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Very nice Tom, I like that map pocket off to the side. Very useful item to include with almost no added weight. I need to put that in mine. Maybe you could run a little stain into that crack with a butter knife. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 13, 2012 9:29 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Instrument Panel Revisited Pietsters: I know this thread has already come and gone (probably several times) but, as sual, I am a little out of sync with the flow. However, I have been workin g on y instrument panel and thought you might like a look-see at one that has "t oo any" instruments on it. Outside row (from left): fuel, tach, amps, vertical compass, oil press, oi l emp, dual CHT nside row: airspeed, altimeter, X-Com radio ottom: slip indicator ub panel: start switch, (fuses missing), ignition, hour meter It took several tries before I was able to find a place where the instrumen ts ould not interfere with the cross bracing cables, aileron cables (not shown ) nd the shoulder harness frame that you can just see in the background and s till eave room for all the wiring, etc. to get them hooked up. I won an e-bay uction for some burled walnut veneer and this was my first attempt at book atching. The vertical seam that you can see so clearly in this photo does not how up nearly as well in normal lighting. There is a second seam running u p hrough the X-Com radio that you can just barely see. One note on the X-Com radio: Yes, I know it is pricy BUT...It weighs less than ne pound and fits easily in a 2" instrument hole so it is lighter and not i n he way like a hand held. I purchased the install kit which comes with a wi ring arness and tuned antenna which I mounted underneath the helmet box below th e urtledeck to preserve the "antique" look. Before you mention it, YES, I know I left the key on so the battery will robably be run down when I buy it. Tom Stinemetze 328X (only two more years to go. 8>) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wings On!
From: "bender" <jfaith(at)solairusaviation.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Awesome... Looks like an airplane. i dig the wing supports jeff faith lou ky Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370689#370689 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim Markle
From: "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Now we know what Gary spends his time doing. No wonder it's taking so long to get the piet built. Haha. Had to tease gary Kelly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370693#370693 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Subject: Re: Jim Markle
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken(at)gmail.com>
Interesting. I didn't know Gary smoked. On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 9:17 AM, regchief wrote: > > Now we know what Gary spends his time doing. No wonder it's taking so long to get the piet built. Haha. Had to tease gary > > Kelly > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370693#370693 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Jim Markle
Date: Apr 13, 2012
No offense taken! It's a well-known fact that I can create with one hand and cruise the internet with the other...case in point: This week's project was bump-out for the tach sensor on my screaming Corvair... Gary from Cool NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jim Markle --> < bickers.ken(at)gmail.com> Interesting. I didn't know Gary smoked. On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 9:17 AM, regchief < kbosley(at)comcast.net> wrote: kbosley(at)comcast.net> > > Now we know what Gary spends his time doing. No wonder it's taking so > long to get the piet built. Haha. Had to tease gary > > Kelly > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370693#370693> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370693#370693 > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Jim Markle
HI Gary, That really looks nice; what is it alloy wise and how about some details of how you did it. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cowling Bumps
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Jim! You force me to divulge info that will distraught some on this list! It=99s what we here in Cool call =9C6061 Fiberglass=9D. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jim Markle HI Gary, That really looks nice; what is it alloy wise and how about some details of how you did it. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Subject: Tom S's instrument panel
Looks just beautiful Tom! I got distracted by your great looking white painted metal landing gear legs and clean looking wire wheels and brake installation. Would you mind posting a photo or two of your wheels and gear? For as much as I like the Jenny style wood landing gear my second favorite option is what you have done and what makes Don Emch's airplane look so beautiful. (along with the fact that Don did a really nice job with the rest of the airplane too!) Some good, good looking Pietenpols are coming together. Love it. Mike C. Put on a happy face Larry---you old reprobate you:)) I know--you wouldn't want to ruin your reputation! You and Markle are lots of fun to poke and needle. Wish I had a little brother sometimes:) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 13, 2012
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Tom S's instrument panel
Photos you want, photos you shall have. I have done a little work since these photos that does not show up here so I probably need to get some new ones. Anyway, these are weldable ACS 1.5 inch axles on 4130 tubing. 19 inch aluminum rims laced to Ken Perkins hubs (note the green primer color on the hubs.) with Honda brake calipers from a salvage facility. The disks were machined for me out of quarter inch stainless by a local machine shop from my CAD drawing. What you can't see are the pure motorcycle brake hoses that fasten to a fuselage floor pass-through fitting which connects on the inside with some more motorcycle hoses to a pair of Cessna 150 brake master cylinders from e-bay. I am leaning towards leaving the wheel lacing exposed but have the plans available should I choose to cover them. This brings up a question for the group. Is there a significant change in the aerodynamics of flight if the wheels are covered? It appears that this would create a couple of vertical stabilizers forward of the center of balance. I know that the open wheels already do this to a certain extent. I'm trying to figure out how to get my Piet into the basement just in case the predictions of nasty weather for tonight and tomorrow come true. Think my wife would mind my cutting a big hole in the kitchen floor? Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. Looks just beautiful Tom! I got distracted by your great looking white painted metal landing gear legs and clean looking wire wheels and brake installation. Would you mind posting a photo or two of your wheels and gear? For as much as I like the Jenny style wood landing gear my second favorite option is what you have done and what makes Don Emch's airplane look so beautiful. (along with the fact that Don did a really nice job with the rest of the airplane too!) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woodflier(at)aol.com" <woodflier(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 13, 2012
Subject: Re: Wings on
Chuck, what airport around Raleigh? I may fly my Piet down to Raleigh East the second Saturday in May. Matt Paxton NX629ML Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Tom S's instrument panel
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Tom=2C I did just that - cut a hole in the kitchen floor a few years back.. OK=2C we were already remodeling but I digress. Looks great - I'm jealous. Tom B. > Date: Fri=2C 13 Apr 2012 16:13:13 -0500 > From: TOMS(at)mcpcity.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tom S's instrument panel > > Photos you want=2C photos you shall have. I have done a little work sinc e these photos that does not show up here so I probably need to get some ne w ones. Anyway=2C these are weldable ACS 1.5 inch axles on 4130 tubing. 1 9 inch aluminum rims laced to Ken Perkins hubs (note the green primer color on the hubs.) with Honda brake calipers from a salvage facility. The disk s were machined for me out of quarter inch stainless by a local machine sho p from my CAD drawing. What you can't see are the pure motorcycle brake ho ses that fasten to a fuselage floor pass-through fitting which connects on the inside with some more motorcycle hoses to a pair of Cessna 150 brake ma ster cylinders from e-bay. I am leaning towards leaving the wheel lacing e xposed but have the plans available should I choose to cover them. This br ings up a question for the group. Is there a significant change in the aer odynamics of flight if the wheels are covered? It appears that this would create a couple of vertical stabilizers forward of the center of balance. I know that the open wheels already do this to a certain extent. > > I'm trying to figure out how to get my Piet into the basement just in cas e the predictions of nasty weather for tonight and tomorrow come true. Thi nk my wife would mind my cutting a big hole in the kitchen floor? > > Tom Stinemetze > McPherson=2C KS. > > Looks just beautiful Tom! I got distracted by your great looking white painted metal landing gear legs and clean looking wire wheels > and brake installation. Would you mind posting a photo or two of your wheels and gear? For as much as I like the Jenny style wood landing > gear my second favorite option is what you have done and what makes Don E mch's airplane look so beautiful. (along with the fact that Don did > a really nice job with the rest of the airplane too!) > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 8-32 Machine Screws
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Can I use standard hardware screws to attach the leading edge or is this screw required to be aircraft grade? If so I can't find them in the ACS catalog. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370787#370787 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2012
From: Jim Boyer <boyerjrb(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cowling Bumps
Hi Gary, It may be 6061 fiberglass but it is neat to see the way you and others solv e problems. I thought maybe you have used 2024 0 material and bumped them o ut. =C2-Fiberglass and metal working are interesting to me but I ha ve li ttle experience with either. That would be a nice way to simulate the cowli ng bumps for a radial rocker covers. Do you have the pickup sensor for the ignition mounted on the dynamo bracke t? Thanks for the show and tell; I plan to do a fiberglass cowling so things l ike your cowling bump are nice to see. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 8-32 Machine Screws
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Apr 14, 2012
I used 8-32 stainless... Fillister head screws. I don't think they have to be anything special. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370791#370791 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: another step forward
Date: Apr 14, 2012
We started putting it back together today. Piet is on it's feet. Pictures not the best but you can see what it will look like. The wings are painted like the stabilizer. Thats my son in the picture. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cowling Bumps
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Yes, mounted to the dynamo bracket. It has probably been 40 years since I have messed around with fiberglass, and this was WAY easier than I expected. Either I=99m smarter, or the products are better to work with. Since I=99m sure I don=99t know as much as I did when I was 18, it must be the products Gary From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cowling Bumps Hi Gary, It may be 6061 fiberglass but it is neat to see the way you and others solve problems. I thought maybe you have used 2024 0 material and bumped them out. Fiberglass and metal working are interesting to me but I have little experience with either. That would be a nice way to simulate the cowling bumps for a radial rocker covers. Do you have the pickup sensor for the ignition mounted on the dynamo bracket? Thanks for the show and tell; I plan to do a fiberglass cowling so things like your cowling bump are nice to see. Jim 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: another step forward
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Outstanding! Another beautiful job on its way. Where do you live, Bob? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob edson Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 5:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: another step forward We started putting it back together today. Piet is on it's feet. Pictures not the best but you can see what it will look like. The wings are painted like the stabilizer. Thats my son in the picture. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 8-32 Machine Screws
From: "Jack(at)textors.com" <jack(at)textors.com>
Date: Apr 14, 2012
John if you are gluing you should be fine Jack Textor Sent from my iPad On Apr 14, 2012, at 2:29 PM, "Kringle" wrote: > > Can I use standard hardware screws to attach the leading edge or is this screw required to be aircraft grade? If so I can't find them in the ACS catalog. > > -------- > John > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370787#370787 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2012
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: another step forward
Bob, I must say, I am not a fan of really bright, contrasting colors on muc h other then race planes. However, you have managed to make me second guess that thought...your plane looks really cool.- (Assuming that is not a ra ce Piet.) - Looking forward to some pics. with the wings, wheels, etc. attached. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2012
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Need some help....off topic...
A pilot friend passed on about a year (or two) ago and his Champ has just been sitting...his daughter owns it now....it's on a grass strip about a mile from us. I've recommended to her that we at least pull it out of the hangar and start it from time to time. And she's fine with me taking it up if I want. (Of course I'm fine with that!). Mainly I hate to see it waste away...and it will if we don't do something. So do we just start propping to get it started or is there some process we need to follow for an aircraft that's been sitting for so long? Sorry for such an "off topic" request but....well....maybe this could lead to me getting some tailwheel time (yes, I know, ONLY after getting some tailwheel training...) but that might make me a better Piet pilot, right? :-) If someone has experience with such and could tell me what to watch for and give some pointers it would be appreciated. Offlist please. Thanks, Jim in Pryor (where the storms might pass us by this time....) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Need some help....off topic...
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Mix MMO with a small amount of fuel and pour into the tank...Oh, wait....No, just pour into the tank, then add fuel....No, wait....pour MMO into full tank....Oh, Hell, just fuel it up and go! I do have one thought, though...not to be a wet blanket...but: I was in a similar position, many years ago. There was a landing accident (OK, I broke an axle), but learned afterwards that the owner had just had a guy re-weld that axle and it was clear that it was a poor weld. Still, I felt responsible, but didn't have the $$$ to help with repairs. The owner assured me it wasn't my fault, but I always felt guilty. Lesson I learned: Never borrow what I can't afford to replace. Gary from Cool NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need some help....off topic... --> A pilot friend passed on about a year (or two) ago and his Champ has just been sitting...his daughter owns it now....it's on a grass strip about a mile from us. I've recommended to her that we at least pull it out of the hangar and start it from time to time. And she's fine with me taking it up if I want. (Of course I'm fine with that!). Mainly I hate to see it waste away...and it will if we don't do something. So do we just start propping to get it started or is there some process we need to follow for an aircraft that's been sitting for so long? Sorry for such an "off topic" request but....well....maybe this could lead to me getting some tailwheel time (yes, I know, ONLY after getting some tailwheel training...) but that might make me a better Piet pilot, right? :-) If someone has experience with such and could tell me what to watch for and give some pointers it would be appreciated. Offlist please. Thanks, Jim in Pryor (where the storms might pass us by this time....) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: aileron deflection
Date: Apr 14, 2012
I have finally gotten back at working on the Piet and have an aileron question. How far down should the aileron move in full deflection. While sanding and rounding off corners today I noticed that the ailerons don=99t seem to move down very far. The bolt heads on the hinges stop the movement. I could recess the bolt heads and gain some but perhaps I did not angle the front spar of the aileron enough. Would someone measure the inches or angle that the aileron deflects downward on a flying Piet and help me out please? I know the ailerons on my Chief deflect more but I never use full deflection when flying so it is hard to compare. Thank a lot. Ralph in SD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob edson" <robertse(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: another step forward
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Jack, We live in Branson Mo and the plane will be based at the Taney County Airport . The motor is an 0-200 with one hour run time on it. Hope to see Brodhead this summer. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aileron deflection
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Ralph, The plans don't list deflections for any of the control surfaces, but in the UK, the LAA has documented the recommended travels, and shows typical aileron deflection to be 15 Up and 20 Down (that translates to about 3" up and 3 1/2" down. http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/047%20PIETENPOL%20AIRCAMPER.pdf Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370821#370821 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: another step forward
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Apr 14, 2012
Wow, Branson! Cool! Another Piet to pick up on the Texas - Oklahoma - Arkansas - Kansas - Missouri to Brodhead route! Should be quiet an arrival from the southwest in a couple of years. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on Fuselage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370822#370822 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2012
I was searching for comments on the construction of wing tip bows and found this thread. This week my local EAA chapter is meeting at my place to look at my project and help me trammel my right wing. I have not made my wing tip bows yet so I temporarily slid in a compression strut at the tip. This should surfice, agreed? I couldn't find a good thread on the construction of the tips so if anyone can point me in a good direction, I would appreciate it. John -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370831#370831 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: another step forward
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Wow Bob, a stunning example. I must say that the fabric-covered cockpit cow ling is very nice looking and different than I have seen. It must be plywoo d? Very smooth and contiguous. Looking forward to seeing another great Piet at Brodhead this year. I think our numbers are really going to explode in the next few years. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Date: Apr 15, 2012
John, You need to go ahead and make the wing tips, since they provide the compression strut at the tip. You can't trammel a wing with a temporary strut and then remove the temporary and replace it with a permanent strut. For one thing, I doubt you could remove the temporary strut once you have the drag and anti-drag wires tensioned properly. Trammeling a wing is not difficult, but it helps to have two people to do it. It also helps to have a couple of Trammel Points mounted on a long light stick (a piece of spruce will do) as a trammel bar. You can do it with a tape measure, but not as accurately as with trammel points (you can buy them at ACS). The procedure is to get the wing laying flat on sawhorses, take the fixed trammel point and punch it into the top of the spar at the intersection of the spar centerline and the drag wire or anti-drag wire fitting. Then swing the trammel bar over so that it is pointing toward the intersection on the other spar where the wires attach and punch the trammel point into the top of that spar over the spar centerline, and the intersection point of the wires. Now lift the trammel bar and reverse it. In other words, if you started at the wingtip with the first trammel point in the front spar and the second point in the rear spar at the middle where the wires attach, you would move the first point to the rear spar at the tip and the second point to the front spar at the wire attach point. If the wing is square and true (not likely at this point) the second point will be exactly on the spar centerline over the intersection point of the bracing wires. If not, you need to start adjusting turnbuckles until it does line up. Then put the trammel bar n the original position and see if it will line up. Keep making adjustments like that until that bay is true and square. Then do the other bay in the same manner. Once each bay is trammeled, you should be able to pick up the trammel bar and set in place in either the drag or anti-drag position and the points should just drop into place on the spar centerline directly above the intersection point of the wires. By the time you have the entire wing square and true, your wires should be reasonably tight, but if not yu can tighten them until they generate a nice "Thummm" when plucked. Just remember that to keep the wing true, you will need to tighten them equally (if you turn the drag wire turnbuckle one-half turn, you need to turn the anti-drag wire turnbuckle the same amount, in the same direction). Once you have the wing trammeled and true, with the wires tight you should go ahead and safetywire the turnbuckles so they won't move. You should never have to trammel it again unless something breaks or shifts. This is why you can't do it with a temporary compression strut. If this is not clear, let me know and I'll try to draw some pictures to explain the process. Does your EAA Chapter have a Technical Counselor? If so, he should be able to explain and demonstrate the process for you, and he probably has a set of trammel points to use. Good Luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 6:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows I was searching for comments on the construction of wing tip bows and found this thread. This week my local EAA chapter is meeting at my place to look at my project and help me trammel my right wing. I have not made my wing tip bows yet so I temporarily slid in a compression strut at the tip. This should surfice, agreed? I couldn't find a good thread on the construction of the tips so if anyone can point me in a good direction, I would appreciate it. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Jack, thanks for the response. My technical advisor is helping me set this up. He is going to show the group the proper way to trammel a wing and told me if the wing is not ready it is no big deal as he will just talk his way through it. Since I don't have my leading and trailing edge finished I'm not sure I can complete the wing tips yet? -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370836#370836 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 8-32 Machine Screws
I used stainless hardware store screws on mine. I figured they were just to hold it in place while the glue dried. I also used stainless self-locking nuts and washers. Ben Charvet On 4/14/2012 3:29 PM, Kringle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle" > > Can I use standard hardware screws to attach the leading edge or is this screw required to be aircraft grade? If so I can't find them in the ACS catalog. > > -------- > John > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370787#370787 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Need some help....off topic...
Sounds like a great opportunity. Do you have someone in the area that could do an annual on it for you? He could give the best advice after giving it a once-over. Here in Florida just sitting takes a heavy toll on engines due to corrosion. You need an annual anyway, so I'd try that. Ben On 4/14/2012 7:13 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle > > A pilot friend passed on about a year (or two) ago and his Champ has just been sitting...his daughter owns it now....it's on a grass strip about a mile from us. > > I've recommended to her that we at least pull it out of the hangar and start it from time to time. And she's fine with me taking it up if I want. (Of course I'm fine with that!). Mainly I hate to see it waste away...and it will if we don't do something. > > So do we just start propping to get it started or is there some process we need to follow for an aircraft that's been sitting for so long? > > Sorry for such an "off topic" request but....well....maybe this could lead to me getting some tailwheel time (yes, I know, ONLY after getting some tailwheel training...) but that might make me a better Piet pilot, right? :-) > > If someone has experience with such and could tell me what to watch for and give some pointers it would be appreciated. > > Offlist please. > > Thanks, > Jim in Pryor (where the storms might pass us by this time....) > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2012
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Cost of inspections
I've been wondering about the cost of annual inspections (or conditions inspections) for experimentals like a Piet vs. simple type certificated airplanes like a cub or colt. In looking over the FARs it seems like the A&P would have to do all of the same things, which then would cost the same. So, without a repairman certificate it looks like there might not be the savings that I anticipated in owning an EAB. Any thoughts or experience? Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Date: Apr 15, 2012
John, Jack is certainly right, that you would probably not be able to remove the temporary compression struts after the wing is trammeled, but, since this is a learning exorcise, and you still have another wing to do, you could always loosen the cables and re-trammel the wing later. It=92s really a fun and easy process, and you will have the benefit of having it demonstrated for you. As to the construction of the tip bows=85I built mine right on top of the rib template by establishing several =BD way points along the rib, install 3 or 4=94 screws, and clamp the laminating strips to those screws. If it takes you more than an hour per tip you=92re doggin=92 it!! Gary from Cool NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 4:38 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows --> < pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> John, You need to go ahead and make the wing tips, since they provide the compression strut at the tip. You can't trammel a wing with a temporary strut and then remove the temporary and replace it with a permanent strut. For one thing, I doubt you could remove the temporary strut once you have the drag and anti-drag wires tensioned properly. Trammeling a wing is not difficult, but it helps to have two people to do it. It also helps to have a couple of Trammel Points mounted on a long light stick (a piece of spruce will do) as a trammel bar. You can do it with a tape measure, but not as accurately as with trammel points (you can buy them at ACS). The procedure is to get the wing laying flat on sawhorses, take the fixed trammel point and punch it into the top of the spar at the intersection of the spar centerline and the drag wire or anti-drag wire fitting. Then swing the trammel bar over so that it is pointing toward the intersection on the other spar where the wires attach and punch the trammel point into the top of that spar over the spar centerline, and the intersection point of the wires. Now lift the trammel bar and reverse it. In other words, if you started at the wingtip with the first trammel point in the front spar and the second point in the rear spar at the middle where the wires attach, you would move the first point to the rear spar at the tip and the second point to the front spar at the wire attach point. If the wing is square and true (not likely at this point) the second point will be exactly on the spar centerline over the intersection point of the bracing wires. If not, you need to start adjusting turnbuckles until it does line up. Then put the trammel bar n the original position and see if it will line up. Keep making adjustments like that until that bay is true and square. Then do the other bay in the same manner. Once each bay is trammeled, you should be able to pick up the trammel bar and set in place in either the drag or anti-drag position and the points should just drop into place on the spar centerline directly above the intersection point of the wires. By the time you have the entire wing square and true, your wires should be reasonably tight, but if not yu can tighten them until they generate a nice "Thummm" when plucked. Just remember that to keep the wing true, you will need to tighten them equally (if you turn the drag wire turnbuckle one-half turn, you need to turn the anti-drag wire turnbuckle the same amount, in the same direction). Once you have the wing trammeled and true, with the wires tight you should go ahead and safetywire the turnbuckles so they won't move. You should never have to trammel it again unless something breaks or shifts. This is why you can't do it with a temporary compression strut. If this is not clear, let me know and I'll try to draw some pictures to explain the process. Does your EAA Chapter have a Technical Counselor? If so, he should be able to explain and demonstrate the process for you, and he probably has a set of trammel points to use. Good Luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 6:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows Mrkringles(at)msn.com> I was searching for comments on the construction of wing tip bows and found this thread. This week my local EAA chapter is meeting at my place to look at my project and help me trammel my right wing. I have not made my wing tip bows yet so I temporarily slid in a compression strut at the tip. This should surfice, agreed? I couldn't find a good thread on the construction of the tips so if anyone can point me in a good direction, I would appreciate it. John List 7-Day http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cost of inspections
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Without a repairman's certificate there are still cost savings. You (or anybody else) can make any repairs or modifications desired on an Experimental. Not so for a certificated aircraft. Anything more complicated than an oil change or changing a tire must be done by an A&P on a certificated plane. Shop around and be sure you remind them that only an A&P license is required to inspect a homebuilt. An IA is not required. It should be cheaper, particularly if they will let you do an "owner assisted" inspection (meaning you do all the work under their direction and they provide a signature in the logbook). Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gliderx5(at)comcast.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost of inspections I've been wondering about the cost of annual inspections (or conditions inspections) for experimentals like a Piet vs. simple type certificated airplanes like a cub or colt. In looking over the FARs it seems like the A&P would have to do all of the same things, which then would cost the same. So, without a repairman certificate it looks like there might not be the savings that I anticipated in owning an EAB. Any thoughts or experience? Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Gary, My plan shows 4 pieces of 1/4" laminated together. Did you soak and bend the plywood to shape? Did you then glue them together, clamp, and sand to the finished piece? John -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370860#370860 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2012
From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cost of inspections
As Jack said, you can do any repairs yourself, even without the repairman's certificate. Also, you don't need an IA to sign off an experimental, only an A&P. They aren't required to sign it off as airworthy, and there are no records that need to be researched for 50 years to assure all AD's have been corrected. The sign off for an experimental just states that it has been found in safe condition for flight. When I had my Baby Ace, I was signed off by two different AP's in my EAA chapter and they always did it for free, with me doing all the work. Just one example of why you need to join your local EAA chapter. Ben Charvet On 4/15/2012 9:51 AM, gliderx5(at)comcast.net wrote: > I've been wondering about the cost of annual inspections (or > conditions inspections) for experimentals like a Piet vs. simple type > certificated airplanes like a cub or colt. In looking over the FARs > it seems like the A&P would have to do all of the same things, which > then would cost the same. So, without a repairman certificate it > looks like there might not be the savings that I anticipated in owning > an EAB. Any thoughts or experience? > > Malcolm Morrison > http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm > * > > > * -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
From: "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Here's where I am. I could get the temp compression stud out after mounting the wing tip with a saw if I had to. Jack, thanks for the info on tammeling. I assume it is imperative that the points you pick on the front and rear spars must line up from fore to aft exactly to get everything square. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370866#370866 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram4_192.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram3_849.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram2_154.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram1_203.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Date: Apr 15, 2012
My bows are hickory, and less than 1/4", maybe even 1/8"! They're covered now, and I don't have any close up pics. Still, I would rip 1/4", then see how well it makes the bend...should do fine. It would probably be easiest to glue all together on the flat, then place on to the template and clamp. At least, that's how I did it. No soaking. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows Gary, My plan shows 4 pieces of 1/4" laminated together. Did you soak and bend the plywood to shape? Did you then glue them together, clamp, and sand to the finished piece? John -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370860#370860 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Additional thought, John...I think it was Skip Gadd who talked about trammeling at least 3 times, during each phase of the construct. Seems like it would be a mistake to trammel the first time after the leading and trailing edges are on. Gary from Cool NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kringle Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Tip Bows Here's where I am. I could get the temp compression stud out after mounting the wing tip with a saw if I had to. Jack, thanks for the info on tammeling. I assume it is imperative that the points you pick on the front and rear spars must line up from fore to aft exactly to get everything square. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370866#370866 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram4_192.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram3_849.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram2_154.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tram1_203.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Tip Bows
Date: Apr 15, 2012
Correct. What you are doing is making two triangles and ensuring that they are absolutely identical, as shown: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message-----


March 27, 2012 - April 15, 2012

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