RV-Archive.digest.vol-bn
June 06, 1996 - June 17, 1996
>on? One of the reasons to leave the skin off is for better access to the
>back of the panel on a slider-equipped -6, right?
Didn't anybody point out the option mentioned in the plans and construction
manual of making the panel removable? I found this very handy and it avoided the
problems mentioned.
FKJ
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| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
| From: | aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com |
4.1)
(8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05049 for ; Thu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING GPS
Weather or not selective availability (SA) is turned on or off is irrelevant
for commercial use. From the very beginning all research and systems proposed
for commercial use of GPS were designed to do an end-run around the degraded
SA frequency. The speed of the official development taking place scares even
the bureaucratic FAA. All of you know that you can use current certified IFR
GPS in-route with accuracy incredibly better that VOR's (with SA turned-on).
So what is the big deal - precision approach capability is just around the
corner. Before you condemn the gov't take note:
WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) is going to be the USA system.
The FAA has just canceled the $475 million contract awarded to Wilcox electric
and awarded a new contract to Wilcox's subcontractor, Hughes. Now get this,
the reason cited was that Wilcox failed to meet milestones. Within 4 months
of the award the FAA warned them they were slipping. In 6 months they sent a
letter and within 8 months they canceled the order and awarded it to Hughes.
That is unheard of in the government and is a example of their new freedom
from Federal Acquisition Regulations. Hughes is expected to make up for lost
time with initial deployment in 1998.
FAA has canceled all development of MLS (microwave Landing System) with
efforts directed toward GPS.
The European Joint Aviation Authority has certified a Litton GPS/INS for the
airbus A340/A330 for sole, in-route use, without the aid of terrestrial nav
aids. It is a non-precision approach to 250 ft. This was a joint JAA & FAA
effort.
Honeywell has demonstrated its SLS-2000 in Europe. It was done in a company
Citation with autopilot coupled approaches. It is accurate to within 5ft
horizontally and 6ft vertically.
The FAA will shift from "positive control" to free flight in the future. They
are funding research on Cockpit Display Traffic Information (CDTI). It is
proposed as an inexpensive means of insuring separation of general aviation
aircraft (an absolute must for commercial free flight).
None of the above cares about SA!
Your big worry is who is going to pay for it. No one knows the true cost of
the GPS system because it is budgeted in a air force black program. (rumors
are it is $1 billion per year). The entire world is using it but only US
taxpayers are paying for it. The current scheme is to surcharge each GPS unit
that is sold (and maybe even the Dbase updates!). For sure you know the air
force is going to move costs to the FAA who will then move those costs to the
users. So while everyone is paying for it now - you (the user) will most
likely be paying $300-400 more per unit when you buy one. But at least that
car-moving-map in Japan will have antied-up.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Response to my earlier posting:
>
>Ummmm.... Guys... let us think about the claim that higher accuracy gps
>systems threaten the security of the USA....
While I may be to blame for bringing up the subject of military concerns
over disabling GPS SA, I certainly didn't expect the subject to blossom
into a debate over the issue. That discussion belongs on an armchair
general's newsgroup, not the RV-List. Let's get back to buildin', flyin',
and talkin' RVs!!
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indorect.com)
RV-4 N96MK (wings fairings, flap linkages, fuellines, etc..)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
I totally agree. I have this behemoth in my house now and use headphones
whenever it runs. Anyone who can suggest a way for me to make this thing
quieter (I've enen contemplated burying it) please let me know.
Where do you find oiled/belted compressors? I checked Sears, the Price
Club, and large Eagle hardware before settling on this nightmare.
----------
From: ROBERT BUSICK[SMTP:nmsu.edu!rbusick(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 1996 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed
IMHO even if Sam's gave me the aircompressor free I would not take it. I
have an oil free one and it make so much noise I am about to toss it. I
definately plan on getting a quiet oilbath type. Costs more, but it is
either that or quit building. My motto, buy expensive now, to save later.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Tim Lewis wrote:
> I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've
> noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations.
> Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air
> compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator
> for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type.
>
> I'm looking for advice on a drill press:
>
> 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200
> (has a "free oiler", whatever that is)
> 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230
> ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means)
> 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300
>
> I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an
> oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses?
>
> Tim Lewis
> Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Service Charge |
>Nice to know I was wrong on this one. Seems that Van's policy now is
>to wear the merchant fee themselves. Good one Van's.
I doubt that this is really true. More likely we're all paying for those
who choose to charge the kits. My impression is that Van has always watched
his profit margins carefully and tried to give as much bang for the buck as
possible. I'd bet that some of this year's price increase is to cover his
costs of accepting credit cards! He may not even be able to tell us exactly
how much it is, but he has a bottom line and what he spends he must recover
(plus a few sheckels to keep avgas in the RV's).
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Arlington AirFair |
At 03:37 PM 6/6/96 GMT, xxxx(at)xxxx.xxx.gov wrote:
>John,
>
>I'm one of the lurkers on the RV-list who will soon reveal my true
>identity (picking up RV-6 empennage kit on 6/21).
>
>I'd like some specifics on the Arlington AirFair. What are the
>dates and some of the items on the agenda.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Xxxx
>
In deference to your request to remain anonymous I've deleted your true
identity. However, I think my reply is of interest to many others besides
yourself.
The Arlington Airfair is held July 10-14 at Arlington Airport. Arlington
Airport is about 40 miles north of Seattle. It is a former military field
(from the Big One, WWII). It, during the airfair, will have one runway,
16/34. That runway is about 60 feet wide by 5000 feet long and surrounded
by flat fields. Arlington is THE premier airport in Western Washington for
First Flights. As an uncontrolled field, we're able to taxi test, do
run-ups or whatever without contacting the Tower (ain't got one).
During the Airfair there will be talks by aviation authors, aircraft
fly-bys, homebuilders workshops, evening programs, exhibits, forums, special
guest speakers, camping, showers, complete food service (don't forget the RV
Picnic on Saturday afternoon), free shuttle to downtown street fair on
Sat/Sun, etc.
For more information you can 'surf' to 'http://www.nweaa.org/nweaa/' or
email the airfair office at 'office(at)nweaa.org'.
Again, be sure to register at the Puget Sound RVators Hospitality Tent next
to the RV aircraft parking. If any RV builders or would be builders are
driving into the Airfair we are offering admission tickets at the same price
that pilots flying in to the Airfair will pay. This is a significant
savings (50% to 66%).
I will have tickets available shortly. The cost will be $5.00 for one day
(sorry, Saturday only) and $10.00 for the entire week. I can mail them to
you if you include a self addressed envelope with your payment (make check
payable to Puget Sound RVators).
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Folks --
I now have a trim tab! How we can get such a sense of satisfaction from
such a minor accomplishment....
I have some general notes for people who follow.
First, to all who told me the size of my rivet puller hole was too large
and suggested methods of fixing, thanks! The 4 pulled rivets I just did
look great. Turns out my puller had a 2-hole head, and the larger of the
two was in place. I swapped, it worked great.
Next, I have a minor problem in my trim tab. I'm not really going to worry
about fixing it, but I thought I would warn people.
When riveting the hinge to the elevator, the hinge bent slightly here and
there due to the pressure of the rivets. This causes some difficulty in
inserting the hinge pin (it's now REALLY tight), and some minor binding
when I flop the trim tab back and forth. I recommend other people try to
avoid this.
Unless someone else has already solved the problem, I would recommend you
insert the hinge pin. You are squeezing these rivets with the trim tab
removed (and half the hinge is already riveted to the trim tab), but if you
re-insert the pin, maybe it'll be stiff enough that it won't bend (or won't
bend as much).
If anyone has a good idea of how to fix mine, I'll take suggestions.
Otherwise I won't worry about it.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY(joke) |
Who needs a GPS to deliver a small nuclear warhead. UPS is cheaper, faster,
and much more accurate.
B Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
To avoid the trouble of bucking rivets that were hard to get to after I
installed all of my radios and instruments, I just popped in a few more pop
rivets (Avex structural kind available from Van's) and filled the holes.
Pop, pop, pop....I am after all, a charter member of Popaholics Anonymous,
as any of my newsletter subscribers will attest to.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've
> noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations.
> Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air
> compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator
> for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type.
>
> I'm looking for advice on a drill press:
>
> 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200
> (has a "free oiler", whatever that is)
> 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230
> ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means)
> 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300
>
> I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an
> oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses?
>
> Tim Lewis
> Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit
Tim, I can't comment about the harbor frieght drill press, my drill press
is a 1950's vintage Sears table mount. It's so heavy I can't lift it
alone.(don't build them like they used to). However try to get one that
has some beef (read heavy). You didn't ask about a bandsaw-- by all means
get a good one. Mine is a 12" Delta, and it is a real mans tool (argh,
argh). I use it constantly, not only on the RV metal but for countless
other jobs.
Good luck.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
>O.K. I have been following the fuselage construction manual found on
>Hovan's page. So far everything has been going great. Even the part
>where he stated that the F625 rib is too wide for the F-606 bulkhead.
>I would like to here what alternatives others came up with to remedy the
>problem.
I found that mine were off in both dimensions (length and height). I split
them *diagonally*, then spliced them back together. Whether is would have
been easier to make two new flanges is a tossup.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
Ed
I left the top skin off of my -6 until the very very end and had no problem,
You will be glad you did so when you are hooking everything up.
Walt Cannon First engine start today!!!!!!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: fuslge side skins |
> My concern is that some of the cowling hinges attach here and I don't want to
> weaken the F601B by c-sinking it - but I also don't like the idea of c-sinking
> the F670 skins...
The F-601B firewall is .062 -- plenty thick to machine c-sink for 3/32
rivets. The skin is only .032. I know which one I'M going to countersink....
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Bair RV-6 in Sport Aviation. |
> Couple that with the
> gummint letting us have the industrial strength GPS signal soon and it's
> going to be a whole new world, soon.
Anyone know if there is a timeline for this yet, or is it still
"probably soon"....?
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>... I have
> just recently received a new King KLX-100 GPS/Comm and the jury is still out.
I
> am a little disappointed in the fact that both special use airspace and
> intersections were removed from the data base.
I'm surprised to hear that (no special use airspace). Do you know if they
offer a version that _does_ have special use airspace? I find that to be one
of the most useful features of the moving map type GPS units. No way I'd pay
the money they're asking for it if it didn't have that.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Installation |
Fred
I used the technique you mentioned of having two pins go from the center
outward - simple, strong, and works like a charm.
Walt Cannon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cleaveland Tool and Material <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | Cleaveland 800 number |
I understand that I made a typo... our 800# really is 1-800-368-1822.
Please re-update your catalogs.
Sorry for the confusion,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
In <960606224533_129638391(at)emout17.mail.aol.com>, on 06 June 96 at
10:45 PM,
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com said:
>To avoid the trouble of bucking rivets that were hard to get to after
>I installed all of my radios and instruments, I just popped in a few
>more pop rivets (Avex structural kind available from Van's) and
>filled the holes.
I'm a long way from this part, but it occurs to me that it might be
worth replacing the rivets with screws, so that access to instruments
for maintenance is less of a chore. Or would the hassles of preventing
leaks and/or fixing instruments damaged by leaks be greater than the
hassle of occasionally crawling under the dash?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
>Where do you find oiled/belted compressors? I checked Sears, the Price
>Club, and large Eagle hardware before settling on this nightmare.
>
I bought mine at Home Depot, Cambell Hausfield 4.5hp 20 gal, $327.
Harbor Freight has 'em too.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Tim Lewis wrote:
> 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200
> (has a "free oiler", whatever that is)
> 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230
> ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means)
> 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300
>
> I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an
> oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses?
I'd get the floor mount. I have no idea what the oiler is, but I bought a
cheap floor mount and am glad I did. 3/4 hp is lots, but it sure is nice
to be able to crank down the table when I need to, or just swing it out
of the way. Plus, it doesn't take up any bench space, and the shavings
fall on the floor, not on my bench. I have a grinder mounted on my main
workbench and the bench top is constantly covered with aluminum dust. I
should really build a stand for it.
The speed ranges are adequate on all of them that you listed.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Suburu RV-6 Update |
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 MikeT(at)aol.com wrote:
> I visited NSI this am to check on the progress of the RV-6 Suburu prototype.
> prices as of now are: 160hp $16,950, 180hp $18,450 and 200hp $19,950 adding
> their prop with the package adds $2550. The packages include mount, wiring,
Considering they cost virtually as much as a Lyc. and have no safety or
reliability record behind them, and havn't even flown on an RV yet (!), I
don't think I'll be sending NSI a deposit anytime soon.
Of course, if the first 20 engines run like swiss clocks for 2000 hours
and really are cheap to rebuild (i.e. I don't have to virtually replace
the entire engine) I'll change my mind. Assuming NSI actually sells 20
engines at that price!
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
> I agree that it is best to leave this skin off until the last possible
>moment. I looked at a RV-6 the other day and the builder was going to save
>riveting this skin until the very last moment, like, even after the
>instrument panel was installed. I pointed out that he probably wouldn't
>like trying to rivet around his radio stack, gyros, wiring, plumbing, canopy
>release mechanism, etc. Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
Bob:
I had no problem riviting the front top skin even after all the radios
were installed. The stack (less actual radio) can be easily riveted around. I
had my 15 Year old do the bucking: Small hands, very nimble.... I wouldn't
ever consider putting my 200+ Lbs frame down under there to do that job! (
Though I've been there many a time since ..)
When this riveting was done, few of the mechanical instruments were in the
panel as I didn't want to shake them up during the riveting process.
Just my $.02 worth.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Installing optional electric flaps.. Should be flying today..)
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
>Fred,
>
>Did you use the proseal between the skins or as a fillet at the joint after
>riveting. I remember some talk a month or so ago about the possibility of
>weaking joints if used between the skins.
>
>Ross Mickey
Ross:
I used it between the skins ans have not had any signs of a weakened
structure. From day one, I planned an IFR aircraft that would be seeing
weather, and this sealant method seems to have held up to those expectations.
I've not had an leaks (tiltup canopy) even in level 4 rain.
Just be sure to close all potential water leak areas, especially the the
bending radius relief slos in the F-668 bulkhead, and its drip edge.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
All their other units have the special-use airspace. That's why I was surprised
when this one didn't. When I called and talked to their GPS reps. their answer
was that it was for VFR use only. Sound like a liability issue. He also would
not comment if they would add this back in to the data base latter. I am not
letting up I going to fax a letter about several user issues to their Customer
Service department. I will advise.
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
>moment. I looked at a RV-6 the other day and the builder was going to save
>riveting this skin until the very last moment, like, even after the
>instrument panel was installed. I pointed out that he probably wouldn't
>like trying to rivet around his radio stack, gyros, wiring, plumbing, canopy
>release mechanism, etc. Bob Skinner RV-6
Well, that's kind of what I had in mind too. With the sliding canopy, the
instrument panel is pretty much fixed (it's strucural with the top skin
according to Ken at Van's) once installed. So if you don't install the panel
goodies first, you get to do all of it laying on your back under the panel.
I'm just concerned about the riveting vibration attacking the avionics and
gauges.
Everything's a comprimise...
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RE: Service Charge (chatter) |
> > My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for
> credit > card. I'd like to know if this is for real.
>
> > > Steve Johnson >
> spjohnson(at)mmm.com >
>Nice to know I was wrong on this one. Seems that Van's policy now is
>to wear the merchant fee themselves. Good one Van's.
A local (Atlanta) radio consumer advocate had a represenitive from MasterCard
on his talk show some time back. He stated that it was against MC terms and
conditions for a business to add a surcharge for using MC. He did not answer
about other cards. He did state that their is no problem if a business offered
a
discount, for paying cash instead of using MC. I guess someone could have
complained and caused a problem for Van's, I don't really know.
IMHO: Van's could add x% to the price of the kit and give a x% cash discount.
That would help take the CCCs out of the loop.
James Kelley
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-8 HS-405 Ribs |
Well, I found a mistake I had already made when drilling the HS-405 ribs to
the front spar assy. Referring to the detail in the upper rt corner of dwg
3PP that says "middle and root ribs", and shows 3 rivets in the flange that
attaches to the front spar, I put holes in the center of the HS-405 root rib
flanges & spars. Then, after talking to Mike Angiulo about skin clearance
around the HS-814, I noticed on the detail of the HS-404 rib cutout that it
shows 2 rivets between the HS-810 and 814. If there is room, I will put 3
rivets between the spar splices, otherwise just 2, and leave the center hole
I drilled by mistake empty.
HS skeleton in jig & trued up.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flop Tube |
All,
That's my opinion as well. It doesn't cost much, it's easy to do while in
construction, and say, it make an otherwise boring 2nd tank construction
more interesting. Also gives you the opportunity to make as yet unmade
mistakes and improves Van's economy!
-Gene, RV6a, fuse in jig
>IMO, even if you don't plan on having an inverted fuel system, I would
>install one flop tube. The reason is that you might one day decide that you
>want an inverted system and the modification of the fuel tank would be a pain
>in the @$$ once the plane is together and flying.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix8.ix.netcom.com> |
To all
I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
1. If you guys are worried about that top fuselage skin .. screw the
sucker on with nut plates spaces properly to carry the structural load.....
its done all the time on factory built A/C. and would be a heck of alot
easier When not if something goes wrong on the instrument panel, thats what
I plan on doing when I get there.. I hate getting upside down under an inst
panel if I know I don't have to.
2. As for pro seal weaking a joint that is fillet sealed???? I don't know
where in the %^&*( that came from) but if thats true then every kerosene
queen that anybody on this list has flown on has weakened joints.. because
thats how there put together. Trust me when you have to repair a bonded
joint its a $%^&*( because that joint is so strong with all rivets, bolts,
hi locks, jobolts, removed its still strong, and takes a lot of prying to
get apart. All majors require that most joints be fay sealed with a product
similiar to pro seal only better and easier to use... it just costs 3 - 4x
more.
Which brings me to another question if I could show you guys how to do the
both tanks in two - three days..... but had to pay say $100.00 - $150.00
using the same stuff that boeing or Mac DAC uses on their commercial A/c
would any of you put up that kind of money? If so I could arrange to get
some... please contact me personally, not on the list.
later Harry Paine
HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <bn(at)poseidon.crosslink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
I'm in the serious information gathering stage of a potential RV-6 or
maybe an RV-8 project. A primary concern for me is seating comfort. I
am 6' 3" tall, 175 lbs, 34" pants inseam. I tried on the factory
prototype RV-6, and while I liked it, I found the seat back angle to be
far too bolt upright for my taste. Leg room to the rudder pedals
was tight, as was clearance from my head to the canopy. The airshow
crowd prevented a more extended look, but the factory representative
said all of this could be easily adjusted to suit my needs during
construction. I tried on the the RV-8 at Sun-N-Fun and found it to
be better. The adjustable rudder pedals allowed adequate leg room at
the most forward position. Canopy clearance was excellent. However,
the seat was still too bolt upright for me. My wife did not like
the tandem seating as well as the side by side RV-6, and I really
like the quick build kit for the RV-6. I would appreciate advice
and comments, particularly from other tall builders that may have
been through this already. Specific questions:
1. Can the seat back angle on the RV-6 or 8 be changed? Would that
interfere with the rear seating on the RV-8?
2. Can I get adequate headroom in the RV-6 with thinner cushions,
etc, and still have a comfortable seat?
3. Is it possible to move the rudder pedals forward or the seat
back on the RV-6 for more leg room?
4. Should a tall guy like me build the RV-6 quick build, or wait
(maybe 2 years??) for and RV-8 quick build kit?
Bob Newman
Warrenton, VA
bn(at)crosslink.net
I want to build one...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
IMHO even if Sam's gave me the aircompressor free I would not take it. I
have an oil free one and it make so much noise I am about to toss it. I
definately plan on getting a quiet oilbath type. Costs more, but it is
either that or quit building. My motto, buy expensive now, to save later.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Tim Lewis wrote:
> I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've
> noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations.
> Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air
> compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator
> for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type.
>
> I'm looking for advice on a drill press:
>
> 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200
> (has a "free oiler", whatever that is)
> 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230
> ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means)
> 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300
>
> I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an
> oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses?
>
> Tim Lewis
> Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
>IMHO even if Sam's gave me the aircompressor free I would not take it. I
>have an oil free one and it make so much noise I am about to toss it. I
>definately plan on getting a quiet oilbath type. Costs more, but it is
>either that or quit building. My motto, buy expensive now, to save later.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
Well, yes but the fact is the oil free compressors do work for not too much
money. Mine is an Ingersol-Rand that has been doing its job for 5 years
without problems. Yes, it still scares the bejebers out of me every time it
starts up but I stuffed it under one of my work benches and used a fuselage
packing crate top to make a door for it to live behind. Cut the noise in
half and (maybe) would protect things if the tank someday decides to blow.
I suppose someday I may get an oilbath type or mount an oil bath compressor
on this tank.
Michael Kosta
RV-4 Fly By July
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flop Tube |
Well, to drag this on, please be advised that a flop tube has more complexity
and therefore has more chance for proplems down the road.
Here is why:
The fixed aluminum tube will not (or should not) move if properly installed.
Once it is installed it should never have a problem.
The flop tube has some form of a flexable fuel line inside the tank.
These can harden with age and cause problems. Things like the Pitts use to
use a hose that they found was hardening with age. They have changed to
the yellow tygon fuel hose. Hopefully that will last longer, but how knows.
Second, you have a large metal end on the flop tube. That thing bangs around
inside the tank. On aerobatic aircraft, you will find small aluminum flakes
in your fuel strainer. This is from the flop tube hitting the tank and
chipping away at the aluminum. Most have an O ring on the end to help prevent
this but sometimes the O ring comes off.
The flop tube requires some guides inside the tank so it does not get hung up
on something. If it does not return to the bottom of the tank, well then
your usable fuel can decrease a lot.
The purpose of this message is to point out that everything has tradeoffs.
Don't make it any more complex than you really require as you will have to
maintain that complexity over the years.
You have to weight the alternatives and do what you feel is correct for your
needs and aircraft.
Herman
> All,
>
> That's my opinion as well. It doesn't cost much, it's easy to do while in
> construction, and say, it make an otherwise boring 2nd tank construction
> more interesting. Also gives you the opportunity to make as yet unmade
> mistakes and improves Van's economy!
>
> -Gene, RV6a, fuse in jig
>
> >IMO, even if you don't plan on having an inverted fuel system, I would
> >install one flop tube. The reason is that you might one day decide that you
> >want an inverted system and the modification of the fuel tank would be a pain
> >in the @$$ once the plane is together and flying.
> >
> >Gary Corde
> >RV-6 N211GC
> >
> >
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
IMHO even if Sam's gave me the aircompressor free I would not take it. I
have an oil free one and it make so much noise I am about to toss it. I
definately plan on getting a quiet oilbath type. Costs more, but it is
either that or quit building. My motto, buy expensive now, to save later.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Tim Lewis wrote:
> I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've
> noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations.
> Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air
> compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator
> for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type.
>
> I'm looking for advice on a drill press:
>
> 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200
> (has a "free oiler", whatever that is)
> 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230
> ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means)
> 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300
>
> I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an
> oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses?
>
> Tim Lewis
> Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
Rob Lee said:
> Also, I have the 2" sub panel on the bottom of the Instrument panel (which I
> highly recommend), for switches / controls / fuel gauges and breakers etc -
> which obviously reduces access room to some extent.
Can you elaborate on why you recommend this? More space for
switches/gauges, removable for better access, or what? The reason
I ask is because I am trying to do all I can to maximize knee/leg
room (like eliminate the center console), so I don't want add a
sub-panel if I can help it.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>To all
>I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
>asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
>rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
>SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>later Harry Paine
>HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Hey Harry.....Chill out a little. Most of the people on this list haven't
worked on aircraft for 25 years and are here to learn. I'm flying a 4 that
I built and I wasn't born knowing how to do it. I learned just like you did
from people that have gone before me. I find some questions basic but one
stupid question is better that one stupid mistake.
I'm sure there are alot of people on this list that could use your experience.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. BUSICK" <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Arlington AirFair |
John
What is your address, so I can order tickets.
Thanks
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
> Again, be sure to register at the Puget Sound RVators Hospitality Tent next
> to the RV aircraft parking. If any RV builders or would be builders are
> driving into the Airfair we are offering admission tickets at the same price
> that pilots flying in to the Airfair will pay. This is a significant
> savings (50% to 66%).
>
> I will have tickets available shortly. The cost will be $5.00 for one day
> (sorry, Saturday only) and $10.00 for the entire week. I can mail them to
> you if you include a self addressed envelope with your payment (make check
> payable to Puget Sound RVators).
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
> Seattle WA, USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> Flying 5 years
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA |
| Subject: | FUEL PUMP FOR INJECTED ENGINES |
Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:20:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance: normal
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 2
For those of you contemplating putting fuel injection on your RV, here is
a snippet of info that could save you some bucks and time.
The Welden high pressure pump is NOT self priming! I learned this at my
cost by destroying one that ran dry for 30secs only!
My pump was mounted on the firewall and was thus not wet at the inlet.
These pumps apparently blow quite well but can't suck to save their life.
The obvious position for the pump is right down on the fuselage wall at
the tank level. I opted to put it on the firewall for two reasons:
1. I didn't want high pressure lines in the cockpit
2. I wanted to be able to pressurize the system from either tank
My solution to the problem is to put a facet pump just after the selector
valve, this will supply a head of fuel to the high pressure pump. (If
anyone sees a major flaw in this please yell!)
I know the thought of having an aux pump for the aux pump seems a bit
ridiculous but it does seem like the simplest solution. It also saves
having to put a high pressure gascolator in the system (a gascolator is
mandatory I believe here in Canada)
I'll see how it does this weekend when I install it and have another go at
my fuel flow test.
Ken
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Ticket to Arlington |
>Return-Path:
>Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 08:22:38 -0600 (MDT)
>From: Bob Stobart <stobart(at)fiber.uwyo.edu>
>Subject: Ticket to Arlington
>To: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>X-UIDL: 49b5c36dee61016b48d18a4b3a6be213
>
>Would you send me your address as I would like to purchase a ticket to the
>show. In your message you didn't provide your street address.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bob Stobart
>
>
I should have proofed that email----- It is difficult to send mail without
an address.
so--for a ticket(s) to Arlington Airfair
Send stamped self-addressed envelope to:
John Ammeter
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA 98115
$5.00 for Saturday only, $10.00 for all week.
Make check payable to Puget Sound RVators.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flop Tube |
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708) wrote:
> All,
>
> That's my opinion as well. It doesn't cost much, it's easy to do while in
> construction, and say, it make an otherwise boring 2nd tank construction
> more interesting. Also gives you the opportunity to make as yet unmade
> mistakes and improves Van's economy!
I put one in just for the heck of it. My question is: did anyone adapt a
filter screen of some kind to the tube? The stock tube just has a 1/4" or
so hole in the end; looks like it could suck up lots of gunk into the
fuel lines.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Harry Paine wrote:
> To all
> I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
> asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
> rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
> 2. As for pro seal weaking a joint that is fillet sealed???? I don't know
> where in the %^&*( that came from) but if thats true then every kerosene
> queen that anybody on this list has flown on has weakened joints.. because
> thats how there put together. Trust me when you have to repair a bonded
> joint its a $%^&*( because that joint is so strong with all rivets, bolts,
> hi locks, jobolts, removed its still strong, and takes a lot of prying to
> get apart. All majors require that most joints be fay sealed with a product
> similiar to pro seal only better and easier to use... it just costs 3 - 4x
> more.
I recall seeing the video on building the 777 jet, where they even used
sealer between the main spar flanges and the web! The big question here
is quality control. If the builder gobs too much sealer on the faying
surfaces, it just might result in a weaker joint. It might also be the
case that those commercial aircraft are designed from the beginning to
use the sealer, and compensate by using more rivets, bigger parts, whatever.
Just a thought.
My own empirical testing tends to agree with Harry. A 1" square
joint glued together with ProSeal only (NO rivet) seemed to be much stronger
and more rigid than a single 3/32 rivet through the same sized parts. I
have no data to support this however.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
Hi Folks,
Cheez, how many times is this bloody air compressor message going to
bounce around? I have a Sears oil-less and it is noisy, but I can live
with it in a walled off area with a louvered door. After all, this
building stuff is not going to last forever! I hope!
Best Regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>I am 6' 3" tall, 175 lbs, 34" pants inseam. I tried on the factory
Hello Bob,
I'm 6'4", 220, 36" inseam. RV-6 Quickbuild kit on order.
I've tried on both the RV-6 and RV-8. The -8 is the better fit...but SBS
seating has become important to me. The following is information I gathered
directly from Van's and/or my trip to Sun'n'Fun.
>1. Can the seat back angle on the RV-6 or 8 be changed? Would that
>interfere with the rear seating on the RV-8?
If you build the RV-6 with sliding canopy, the fuselage brace that the top
seat back rests on can be moved back up to 3". This is in addition to the
standard seat back angle adjustment.
>2. Can I get adequate headroom in the RV-6 with thinner cushions,
>etc, and still have a comfortable seat?
I don't know if you have experienced this, but sometimes when I am trying a
car on for size, I may fit but its a little tight (head brushing headliner,
etc.). After fifteen minutes of driving I forget all about that. I seem to
"stretch" when trying something on for size, then go into more relaxed mode
when I forget about trying to fit in it.
Anyhew...The seat pan can be lowered about 1" in the center portion. Seems
your torso may be longer than mine (jeez...I already need 39.5" seated torso
room).
>3. Is it possible to move the rudder pedals forward or the seat
>back on the RV-6 for more leg room?
>From the posts here on the list, it seems some forward pedal displacement is
possible. I will wait till I get to the "sitting" stage of fuselage
construction; then start moving pedals, seats, and canopies around so I fit.
Of course, to assure the selection of a comfortable seating position, I will
be spending many hours in the garage making airplane noises (and coming up
with an inflight relief system) .
>4. Should a tall guy like me build the RV-6 quick build, or wait
>(maybe 2 years??) for and RV-8 quick build kit?
Do you want SBS or tandem?
Good luck!
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY(joke, not really) |
If a nuke is ever detonated on US soil it will likely be delivered in a
suitcase, not on top of an ICBM. And, if this is the case I don't think the
owner will really care whether his bomb goes off on baggage carousel #s one,
two, or three.
I would be willing to bet that the same congress people pushing this
selective GPS issue are also the ones promoting this new push for "star
wars".
And, who by coincidence are the major employers and political contributers in
their districts? ...Raytheon, Marrietta, McDonald-Douglas, etc....
Corporate welfare for mega organizations who lack the guts to compete in the
civilian marketplace.
Follow the money folks.
Now, back to my spray booth, unless some of you think its time for me to
change the filters in my mask.
Andy Gold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>>To all
>>I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
>>asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
>>rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
>>SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>>later Harry Paine
>>HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
>>
>Hey Harry.....Chill out a little. Most of the people on this list haven't
>worked on aircraft for 25 years and are here to learn. I'm flying a 4 that
>I built and I wasn't born knowing how to do it. I learned just like you did
>from people that have gone before me. I find some questions basic but one
>stupid question is better that one stupid mistake.
>
>I'm sure there are alot of people on this list that could use your experience.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
Thanks Rusty: you said what I was thinking. I had the opportunity to work
as an aircraft mechanic for 6 years which REALLY helped in trying to figure
out what was what and how things might be put together...but EVERYONE
(Harry) will have questions as the project progresses. I enjoy having
builders drop in and see what progress has taken place. And they usually
have a question about the part of the project they are presently working on
(remember building the TAIL SECTION?). Happy to help out. Sadly, however,
not many flyers drop in to see what is going on. Guess they are TOO BUSY
flying. Hope that isn't universal.
Keep asking: the only stupid question is one that doesn't get asked.
Michael Kosta
RV-4 Fly By July
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Suburu RV-6 Update |
automotive powered planes offer some interesting cost, power, and fuel
advantages.
however, someday (be it unlikly) you may want to sell your plane. there
are a lot of nonbuilder, nonA+P, pilots like me out there. when i bought my
first auto powered plane i had great problems finding an A+P to do annuals.
later when i went to sell it, many potential buyers turned it down for the
same reason. any thing i saved i lost later.
On to other things; i have a machinist friend helping me build a smoke
system for my O-360 powered RV-4. can anyone tell me an economical and redily
available smoke medium and corosponding flow rate?
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING big bucks
Andy you forgot a few when you said:
---------------------------
"... who by coincidence are the major employers and political contributors in
their districts? ...Raytheon, Marrietta, McDonald-Douglas, etc....
Corporate welfare for mega organizations who lack the guts to compete in the
civilian marketplace.
----------------------------
How about......
Hughes (for the WAAS-GPS system you will fly the rest of your life)
Alcoa (the stuff your riveting)
Dow Chemical (the windshield your looking through)
Textron (that 320/360 making all the noise)
Allied Signal (King Avionics for that 121.5 stuff)
3M (for the filter you definitely need to change)
Don't forget Cutter labs so your kids don't get polio.
And what a rip-off Intel is. Van's using their pentium for structural
analysis of the -3 wing problem and the -6 &-8 punched skins are done on CNC.
All megabuck companies that you derive no benefit from.
Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
what's a little shipping charge anyway!
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
Very well stated Elon I agree 100%, these industries contribute
technology
to GA that pioneer aviators could have never imagined.
Ken Crabtree
Bakersfield, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
Frank K Justice wrote:
> Didn't anybody point out the option mentioned in the plans and construction
> manual of making the panel removable? I found this very handy and it avoided
the
> problems mentioned.
>
> FKJ
>
Frank,
I'm planning to make my panel removeable and I'm at the point of deciding how
I'm going to do it. I'd be very interested in your method for consideration.
Frank Smidler
RV-6 fuselage out of jig
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>I'm in the serious information gathering stage of a potential RV-6 or
>maybe an RV-8 project. A primary concern for me is seating comfort. I
>am 6' 3" tall, 175 lbs, 34" pants inseam. I tried on the factory
>prototype RV-6, and while I liked it, I found the seat back angle to be
>far too bolt upright for my taste. Leg room to the rudder pedals
>was tight, as was clearance from my head to the canopy. The airshow
>crowd prevented a more extended look, but the factory representative
>said all of this could be easily adjusted to suit my needs during
>construction. I tried on the the RV-8 at Sun-N-Fun and found it to
>be better. The adjustable rudder pedals allowed adequate leg room at
>the most forward position. Canopy clearance was excellent. However,
>the seat was still too bolt upright for me. My wife did not like
>the tandem seating as well as the side by side RV-6, and I really
>like the quick build kit for the RV-6. I would appreciate advice
>and comments, particularly from other tall builders that may have
>been through this already. Specific questions:
>
>1. Can the seat back angle on the RV-6 or 8 be changed? Would that
>interfere with the rear seating on the RV-8?
>
>2. Can I get adequate headroom in the RV-6 with thinner cushions,
>etc, and still have a comfortable seat?
>
>3. Is it possible to move the rudder pedals forward or the seat
>back on the RV-6 for more leg room?
>
>4. Should a tall guy like me build the RV-6 quick build, or wait
>(maybe 2 years??) for and RV-8 quick build kit?
>
>Bob Newman
>Warrenton, VA
>bn(at)crosslink.net
>I want to build one...
I suggest you talk to Tom Green at Van's. He is at least 6'3" tall, and is
quite comfortable in his RV-6. I have seen the quick build kits out at
Van's, and the workmanship is very good. Buy the RV-6 quick build kit now,
and if you decide you have to have an RV-8, and IF they produce an RV-8
quick build kit, sell your -6 and buy an -8.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>I'm in the serious information gathering stage of a potential RV-6 or
>maybe an RV-8 project. A primary concern for me is seating comfort. I
>am 6' 3" tall, 175 lbs, 34" pants inseam. I tried on the factory
>prototype RV-6, and while I liked it, I found the seat back angle to be
>far too bolt upright for my taste. Leg room to the rudder pedals
>was tight, as was clearance from my head to the canopy. The airshow
>crowd prevented a more extended look, but the factory representative
>said all of this could be easily adjusted to suit my needs during
>construction. I tried on the the RV-8 at Sun-N-Fun and found it to
>be better. The adjustable rudder pedals allowed adequate leg room at
>the most forward position. Canopy clearance was excellent. However,
>the seat was still too bolt upright for me. My wife did not like
>the tandem seating as well as the side by side RV-6, and I really
>like the quick build kit for the RV-6. I would appreciate advice
>and comments, particularly from other tall builders that may have
>been through this already. Specific questions:
>
>1. Can the seat back angle on the RV-6 or 8 be changed? Would that
>interfere with the rear seating on the RV-8?
>
>2. Can I get adequate headroom in the RV-6 with thinner cushions,
>etc, and still have a comfortable seat?
>
>3. Is it possible to move the rudder pedals forward or the seat
>back on the RV-6 for more leg room?
>
>4. Should a tall guy like me build the RV-6 quick build, or wait
>(maybe 2 years??) for and RV-8 quick build kit?
>
>Bob Newman
>Warrenton, VA
>bn(at)crosslink.net
>I want to build one...
Bob, I'm 6' 3 1/2", 200 lbs. and 35" inseam. I have plenty of room in my
tilt canopy, RV-6. I have the floor mounted rudders so can't comment on
suspended pedals. I have taken out the "seat angle adjuster" on the top
portion of the seat backs and just let the seat back rest on the cross piece
to give me a more comfortable recline angle. My seat cushions are 3"
Temperfoam with 1" of medium density foam on top and the seat back is 1" of
Sunmate with a 1" of medium density foam overlay. I end up with 1 1/2 to 2
inch space between headset and canopy.
If you could poll most passengers, I think that most would prefer side by
side seating. If this is what your wife prefers, I'd definately go with the
side by side. She let you build the airplane, right. Time to stock pile
goodwill. If you really want an eight, you can build that next. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight) |
| Subject: | Re: User Fees, Thank You Randall |
Randall,
Thanks for the nudge to get me off top dead center. I, too, got the letter
from AOPA urging response on the user fee issue, but with three daughters, a
pregnant wife, a new house, and recent move, there is precious little free
time. (Worst of all are my RV-6 wing and fuse crates buried under moving
boxes in the garage!)
I had intended to write my congressman earlier, but kept putting it off
until I read your post yesterday. My letter goes in the mail tomorrow.
Thanks for the boost,
Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
Anderson, SC
RV-6 empennage completed, trying to get the new house livable so I can start
on the wings.
>All:
>
>I just finished my letter to my gummint representative. I am presenting
>it here in the hopes that it will inspire others to write their letters.
>Feel free to plagarize at will.
>
>Make yourself heard. We need to send a clear message so they will stop
>trying to push this user fee crap on us once and for all.
>
>The text original AOPA legislative alert follows the letter.
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
>
>----
>
>June 6, 1996
>
>The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield
>U.S. Senate
>Washington, DC 20510
>
>Senator Hatfield:
>
>I am writing to urge you to do all you can to make sure that the tax on
>airline tickets, which expired on January 1, is reinstated as soon as
>possible. I am very concerned that if this does not happen soon, the
>Aviation Trust Fund, which General Aviation users have been dutifully
>paying into through fuel taxes for many years, will go bankrupt, and
>the factions that want to impose direct user fees on general aviation
>will win. Then we will be saddled with a hugely burdensome and
>inefficient user fee scheme after all.
>
>General Aviation organizations, as well as individual pilots and
>aircraft owners, are virtually unanimous in their opposition to user
>fees. Proponents of user fees argue that General Aviation users are not
>paying their fair share for the facilities they use. I strongly
>disagree. The primary reason the FAA/ATC system is as complex as it is
>is because of the air carriers, and the primary reason GA aircraft USE
>the system is so that they won't be in conflict with said air carriers'
>operations. It is only just that the air carriers should bear the major
>burden for the FAA and ATC system in the first place.
>
>The bankruptcy of the Aviation Trust Fund would be a huge tragedy. I
>find it ironic that the word "Trust" is in the name, as we as pilots
>and aircraft owners have "trusted" for a long time that the money we
>pay will be used wisely. But now, suddenly, it is being drained for no
>good reason, and I fear that if it runs out it will be used against us
>in an effort to impose a new, additional, bureaucracy-heavy fee
>structure on General Aviation. I do not believe I am exaggerating when
>I say if that occurs, it is almost certain to kill the General Aviation
>industry, and then user fees won't do any good, since there won't be
>anyone there to pay them.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Randall Henderson
>
>----
>
>------------- Begin Included Message -------------
>
>AOPA Legislative Action
>500 E Street SW, Suite 290
>Washington, DC 20024
>
>
>Dear Randall W. Henderson:
>
>Our war against user fees has reached a pivotal battle. AOPA
>Legislative Action urgently needs your help to win it!
>
>You may have heard that the tax on airline tickets, which provides
>most of the FAA's funding through the Aviation Trust Fund, expired
>on January 1. Along with fuel taxes general aviation pays, and taxes
>on cargo and other fuels, the ticket tax was the source of 70
>percent of FAA's funding. For a while, the surplus in the trust fund
>is keeping FAA running, but the balance will run out by the end
>of the year.
>
>The ticket tax was caught in the same fight over the federal budget
>that shut the federal government down several times and caused
>Congress to finish the 1996 budget seven months late. But that
>fight is over now. Why hasn't congress reinstated the tax?
>
>Insiders in Washington know why. Certain key members of Congress
>want to choke the FAA so that Congress will impose USER FEES for air
>traffic control and other services.
>
>We all know that Congress doesn't do much until there's a chrisis.
>Look at the accident in Cheyenne, Wyoming last month involving
>Jessica Dubroff. Younger and younger children have been involved in
>record-setting attempts for a decade now, but Congress only reacted
>after disaster struck. And I'm afraid the same thing could happen
>to the Aviation Trust Fund -- with terrible results.
>
>Unless we stir them to action, we fear Congress will let the Trust
>Fund go to the verge of bankruptcy. Then legislators will wake up
>in October - right before an election - and realize they must do
>something, ANYTHING, to ensure that the safety of the traveling
>public isn't compromised by a lack of funding. And in the climate of
>chrisis, politicians will stamped toward any idea to fund aviation.
>
>And the quickest and easiest way to do it will be user fees -- _that_
>_you_ _will_ _have_ _to_ _pay_.
>
>It won't matter that user fees would devastate general aviation,
>cost too much to collect, terribly disrupt the aviation industry,
>and hand the FAA a blank check to spend all it wants. All our
>arguments against user fees, which have been quite successful in
>holding them back so far, will be swept away in the mad rush to
>DO SOMETHING.
>
>By ignoring the expired ticket tax and holding the Aviation Trust
>Fund hostage, user fee proponents are staging a last-ditch attempt
>to force a discredited idea down the throats of aviation users.
>These people are willing to let the trust fund go bankrupt just
>to push their agenda.
>
>As a pilot and a taxpayer, you have the right to tell your
>representatives in Congress how important it is to reinstate the
>excise taxes that feed the Trust Fund now. We need to preserve
>the existing system of taxes, not bankrupt the airway system just to
>impose a draconian user fee scheme. This is the message Congress
>needs to hear: Save the Aviation Trust Fund from Bankruptcy.
>Restore the ticket tax before the FAA runs out of money! And no
>new user fees!
>
>Anyone who cares very much about the future of general aviation,
>I know I can depend on you to speak up. It's even more important
>that you act today, because your senator, Mark O. Hatfield, is
>Chairman of the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee.
>Please contact Senator Hatfield today and urge him to act to save
>the Trust Fund. You can write to him at:
>
>The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield
>U.S. Senate
>Washington, DC 20510.
>
>(Or whoever your senator(s) is/are if you do not live in Oregon)
>
>Thank you for your help. To say that the future of general aviation
>depends on you now is no exaggeration.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Phil Boyer
>President
>AOPA Leglislative Action
>
>===========================================================================
>
>You can find more information about the issue of user fees and
>the Trust Fund on the web at
>http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/aopala.htm
>
>You can find the names/addresses of your Senators at
>http://www.senate.gov/
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
>------------- End Included Message -------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.JB" <101351.2343(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | French "reseau du sport de l'air" |
from :
Jean LeBorgne RV6 builder
Dear friends of the light aviation,
The French association of aircraft homebuilders, the "Reseau du sport de
l'air",needs your HELP, to promote his Web site !
The "WEB D'Or" contest, managed by the Canadian site " France .com" is just OPEN
for your votes !
Our Site is registered in the category "Associations", and sure, if our "score"
is good, it will be much visited, of worldwide "netsurfers" ! What a chance to
show our small homebuilt planes !
TO VOTE RSAir, two solutions :
1 - you visit our site, click on the "web d'or" (golden Web) logo : then fill
up the Vote form, GO TO :
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RSAIR
It would be nice to Sign the guestbook, and read the registre !
2 - call directly the vote form, at the adress :
http://www.france.com/cgi-bin/france/vv.pl?sid=1151
Then, you will receive an Email, to confirm your vote :
only return the message code at the adress :
vote(at)www.france.com
IT IS WORTHY TO PARTICIPATE AT THIS CONTEST !
Nothing to win , but to become famous !............
Thank you for the "Reseau du Sport de l'Air" , always 100% homebuilt Aviation !
Just BUILT'N FLY !
Chers amis de la petite aviation,
L'Association francaise des constructeurs amateurs d'aeronefs, votre " Reseau du
Sport de l'Air" a besoin de votre aide pour faire connaitre son site WEB !
Le grand concours du "WEB D'Or" , propose par nos amis canadiens, viens d'etre
ouvert a vos votes !
Nous sommes inscrits dans la rubrique "Associations", et il est sur que si nous
faisons un bon "score", notre site sera beaucoup visite, de "netsurfeurs" du
monde entier ! Quelle promotion pour nos petits avions !
POUR VOTER RSAir, deux solutions :
1 - visiter le site, et clicquer sur le logo "web d'or", pour voir apparaitre le
bulletin de vote : rendez vous a :
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RSAIR
et profitez en pour signer le livre d'or, et consulter la liste des signataires
!
2 - appeller directement le bulletin de vote a l'adresse :
http://www.france.com/cgi-bin/france/vv.pl?sid=1151
Vous recevrez un peu plus tard un message vous demandant de CONFIRMER votre vote
:
Retournez un courrier , contenant uniquement le code du message, a l'adresse :
vote(at)www.france.com
CA VAUT LE COUP DE PARTICIPER A CE CONCOURS !
Il n'y a rien a gagner, sauf a etre CONNU ...................................
MERCI pour le Reseau du Sport de l'Air, toujours 100% Aviation Amateur !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
>REGARDING big bucks
>
>Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
>what's a little shipping charge anyway!
>-Elon
>
Elon, no offence intended but some of us who live in small nations and not
the U.S. actually like it that way and consider the occasional shipping
charge worth it.
I don't want to get a patriotic shouting match going here but that attitude
of some americans that the rest of the world is some how inferior is very
annoying. The US has its major advantages and major disadvantages just like
any other country including mine.
Just had to get that off my chest. :-]
Joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
Nobody on their death bed ever said "I wish I'd spent more time at work"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glepore(at)direct.ca (Guido Lepore) |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
Unsubscibe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrabstonD(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Preserving Engines |
I have an O 320 that was reoverhauled in 1989. It has not been run since
then. When I got it, about two years ago, I planned to have my airplane
flying in about 18 months. ha ha. I have it mounted in a stand nose down.
I've been turning it every few months and spraying WD40 in the spark plug
holes. Now I realize it will be a long time before that engine ever gets
"fired up." What should I do to preserve it until then?
Doug Brabston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
>I have an O 320 that was reoverhauled in 1989. It has not been run since
>then. When I got it, about two years ago, I planned to have my airplane
>flying in about 18 months. ha ha. I have it mounted in a stand nose down.
> I've been turning it every few months and spraying WD40 in the spark plug
>holes. Now I realize it will be a long time before that engine ever gets
>"fired up." What should I do to preserve it until then?
Get a copy of Lycoming Service Instruction SL180A, "Engine Preservation for
Active and Stored Aircraft". One of Tony Bengelis' books also has some
good advice on this subject.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
>I have an O 320 that was reoverhauled in 1989. It has not been run since
>then. When I got it, about two years ago, I planned to have my airplane
>flying in about 18 months. ha ha. I have it mounted in a stand nose down.
> I've been turning it every few months and spraying WD40 in the spark plug
>holes. Now I realize it will be a long time before that engine ever gets
>"fired up." What should I do to preserve it until then?
>
>Doug Brabston
>
Doug,
I live 1000' from the ocean in S. Florida (90% humidity is normal). Don
George, from who I bought my engine, installed moisture plugs and told me to
spray CRC or LPS in the cylinders every 2 to 3 weeks. These are much better
than wd-40, which does not displace water as well and can dry in a few weeks
and actually attract it. When I bought some CRC the other day spray
COSMOLINE was strongly recomended (haven't used yet).
This is not as good as the Lycoming pickling procedure, but an alternative.
Bye the way, when Don was telling me about keeping the rust away he also
stressed that my engine was HOT. I've attached a ground wire to each mag,
but I turn the crank backward anyway. He told me about a customer that was
recently turning a new engine through with a srew diver and it 'popped' once
and sent the screw driver into the side wall, where it was left as a reminder.
Good luck,
Boris
N51BR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
>
>> I use the EC-10X day and night in all kinds of weather.
>>
>
> So how is the display in direct Sunlight?
>
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>(Installing optional electric flaps)
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
I've got an ec10-x that I've used about 4 times now. (It was Purchased last
december - I'm not sure it's EXACTLY the same model referred to above.) It
works great. It has a pretty standard looking (albeit hi resolution) LCD
display. Very visible in sunlight. It's backlit for night use with 4
adjustable light levels. I haven't flown with it at night (but I have tried
navigating my car with it at night!).
There's a few areas where I think the control scheme is a little illogical,
but nothing major. I wouldn't go crosscountry without it. I'm sure GPS is
regularly saving lives by keeping inexperienced pilots (like me) from
getting lost and running out of gas.
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I've just assembled the flaps to the fuse and wings of my 6A, and find a 1 inch
by 1 3/4 inch gap aft of the
fuse bottom skin where it overlaps the wing bottom skin. Is this normal? What
covers it?
Also, how far up into the side of the fuse did others need to cut to clear the
rod end attached to the flap?
Tim Whitman Hamilton, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
joehine wrote:
>
> >REGARDING big bucks
> >
> >Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
> >what's a little shipping charge anyway!
> >-Elon
> >
>
> Elon, no offence intended but some of us who live in small nations and not
> the U.S. actually like it that way and consider the occasional shipping
> charge worth it.
>
> I don't want to get a patriotic shouting match going here but that attitude
> of some americans that the rest of the world is some how inferior is very
> annoying. The US has its major advantages and major disadvantages just like
> any other country including mine.
> As a resident of an even smaller country (Trinidad)I feel that
I have to join in and support ! I don't think that Americans realise just
how offensive their assumption that everything American is necessarily better
can be. Too many don't even know where Trinidad is !
Regards,
Martin
Only the young die good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | haipilot(at)usa.pipeline.com (Hai Pilot) |
I'm really sorry about the dress code crap. Lisa and Charlie have gotten
onto this little critical campaign about peoples dress. Can you imagine
these two deciding to be the arbitors of other peoples lives? Lisa wrote
up this little Dress Code paragraph and put it in the Kol, with my
approval. I figured this way she would be satisfied and let it go away.
Instead they are now going around to congregants telling them that their
dresses are to short, their sleeves are not long enough, the boys should be
in pants not shorts, etc. You are not the first to be insulted like this
recently. I guess I need to put a stop it. One thing I suggest, is for
you to call the president, Leo Plotkin, who is a reasonable enough fellow,
and just tell him that you are upset at this intrusion. State it just like
you did to me, that you try so hard just to get them here, and that in
fact their dress style is just fine, and that if this happens to you again,
you are liable to lose your temper and tell these people to go to hell.
Also, I understand what you are saying about feeling yuked up, trying so
hard not and then looking even better than normal due to the extra
effort. I do it regularly. Don't worry - nobody really fits in, and if
they do, it is only for a little while.
I love you so much, it feels good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | HS FRONT SPAR QUESTION |
There's been a lot of talk about hs front spars. Van's manual says to pilot
drill the holes and then the drawing says that some of these holes should be
drilled in the assembly with the fuselage. What is the correct method and
is it OK to pilot drill all the holes.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn#80039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
>>I have an O 320 that was reoverhauled in 1989. It has not been run since
>>then. When I got it, about two years ago, I planned to have my airplane
>>flying in about 18 months. ha ha. I have it mounted in a stand nose down.
>> I've been turning it every few months and spraying WD40 in the spark plug
>>holes. Now I realize it will be a long time before that engine ever gets
>>"fired up." What should I do to preserve it until then?
>>
>>Doug Brabston
>>
I was a sun and fun a few years ago and I overheard someone asking a person
on the lycoming booth the same question and the response was. "plug all
the holes and fill it up with oil, everything, the cylinders, the crankcase,
everything". The guy went on to say that storing it on a stand like you
have was the way to store it when it was full of oil.
I don't know if this is completely out to lunch, but that was the response !!
Joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
Nobody on their death bed has ever been heard to say "Geeze,I wish I'd spent
more time at work"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
>asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
>rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
>1. If you guys are worried about that top fuselage skin .. screw the
>2. As for pro seal weaking a joint that is fillet sealed???? I don't know
>where in the %^&*( that came from) but if thats true then every kerosene
Harry, I can see how some of this may be boring to you but that IS what this
list is for. Most of us haven't been repairing aircraft for 25 years. I
don't think most of us have ever even used a pneumatic rivet gun until we
started our project. To try and scare people away from asking a "stupid"
question (it's only stupid to those who know the answer and forget that they
didn't know it at one time) is detrimental to what this list is about:
building a quality, safe aircraft.
If you're tired of reading about a certain subject, you can skip past it. I
have found that even subjects with which I'm familiar still hold valuable
information somtimes.
Cheers,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Also, I understand what you are saying about feeling yuked up, trying so
hard not and then looking even better than normal due to the extra
effort. I do it regularly. Don't worry - nobody really fits in, and if
they do, it is only for a little while.
I love you so much, it feels good.
We all love you too........
Rick in MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>> As a resident of an even smaller country (Trinidad)I feel that
>I have to join in and support ! I don't think that Americans realise just
>how offensive their assumption that everything American is necessarily better
>can be. Too many don't even know where Trinidad is !
Making false assumptions about Americans is not associated with building and
flying RV's. Let's all get back to RV's!
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q builder / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Ahearn <ahearns(at)ix.netcom.com> |
This could get ugly.....
Back to RV's
Dan
>joehine wrote:
>>
>> >REGARDING big bucks
>> >
>> >Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
>> >what's a little shipping charge anyway!
>> >-Elon
>> >
>>
>> Elon, no offence intended but some of us who live in small nations and not
>> the U.S. actually like it that way and consider the occasional shipping
>> charge worth it.
>>
>> I don't want to get a patriotic shouting match going here but that attitude
>> of some americans that the rest of the world is some how inferior is very
>> annoying. The US has its major advantages and major disadvantages just like
>> any other country including mine.
>> As a resident of an even smaller country (Trinidad)I feel that
>I have to join in and support ! I don't think that Americans realise just
>how offensive their assumption that everything American is necessarily better
>can be. Too many don't even know where Trinidad is !
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
> Only the young die good.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
aol.com!BrabstonD(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have an O 320 that was reoverhauled in 1989. It has not been run since
> then. When I got it, about two years ago, I planned to have my airplane
> flying in about 18 months. ha ha. I have it mounted in a stand nose down.
> I've been turning it every few months and spraying WD40 in the spark plug
> holes. Now I realize it will be a long time before that engine ever gets
> "fired up." What should I do to preserve it until then?
>
> Doug Brabston
Doug, I'm sure you will get all sorts of answers to your question, so I
will add my interpretation. This is a culmination of recommendations
from a lot of different sources, no guarantees included.
Remove all accessories, seal them in plastic bags (heavy) with silica
jell inside.
Make sealing covers out of plywood and gasket material. Heat a mixture
of mineral oil + 25% Marvel Mystery oil to about 150 F. Spray this in
every hole you can find, accosasionaly turning the engine on the crank a
few degrees. Load up the crankcase with as much of the mixture as will
fit. Put silica jell plugs in all spark plug holes. Put the covers+gasket
material on all accessory holes. Get about 2-4 pounds of silica jell in
bags (cloth). Prepare heavy plastic sheet to enclose the entire engine.
Place the silica jell bags in the plastic enclosure and seal it tightly.
Make it a practice to look at the silica jell in the bags and the plugs
every two weeks to see if any of it is turning pink. If, it does turn
pink, remove it, bake it out in an oven till it's blue again and reseal
better than you did the time before.
Good luck, Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Preserving engines |
Hi Folks,
There was a question about preserving an engine that won't be used for
a couple of years.
Tony Bingelis in his book, Firewall Forward, has a section titled
Coping with that uninstalled Engine, which runs from page 44 through
page 52. He gives specific recommendations for short term, medium
term, and long term storage (which he calls flyable storage, temporary
storage, and indefinite storage), complete with pictures and diagrams.
He gives alternatives to what I guess is the official 'pickling' where
you fill it with cosmoline or something (would probably be best to get
this from Lycoming).
He talks about using an antirust additive to the oil called MIL-C-6529,
dehydrator spark plug replacements, and silica gel bags.
I think Tony's books are outstanding and, if you go to Oshkosh this
summer, you can buy them and avoid the exhorbitant shipping and
handling charges.
Hope this helps,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flop Tube |
This came up a while back, check the RV List archive or some past issues
of the RVator...The large slots are preferred at that point in the fuel
system. Let the next in line filter catch the stuff. The flop tube would
be TOO easy to clog if it used a finer mesh or similar setup.
Harold
RV-6A
> On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708) wrote:
> I put one in just for the heck of it. My question is: did anyone adapt a
> filter screen of some kind to the tube? The stock tube just has a 1/4" or
> so hole in the end; looks like it could suck up lots of gunk into the
> fuel lines.
>
> Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: HS FRONT SPAR QUESTION |
Jim,
I believe you are talking about the 3/16" holes for mounting the HS to the
fuselage. I had already drilled them to #30 as part of the hole pattern in
the spar splice channels. While I'm confident they are in the right places,
I am going to wait to enlarge them to 3/16" until final assembly. There are
corresponding holes in the VS that should stay totaly blank, so they can be
match drilled along with whatever part they attach to in the fuselage, to
the ones in the HS. I figure the ones in the HS will become the "masters".
It is a bit of a handicap for us RV-8 builders not having a set of preview
plans so we know what the rest of the airplane looks like.
Phil (#80005 working on VS)
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>There's been a lot of talk about hs front spars. Van's manual says to pilot
>drill the holes and then the drawing says that some of these holes should be
>drilled in the assembly with the fuselage. What is the correct method and
>is it OK to pilot drill all the holes.
>
>Jim Cimino
>RV-8 sn#80039
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV dress code |
We can't see you here on the RV list so don't sweat it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Betty Blanton <75472.372(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Strobe Power Supply |
RV-List,
Has anyone mounted their strobe power supply under the baggage floor on an RV-6?
If so what did you use for a mount, etc.?
I'm thinking of putting mine, a standard Whelen, under the baggage floor
directly behind the F-605 bulkhead and using nutplates on that section of
flooring.
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
75472.372@compuserve
RV-6 fuselage skeleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ormdorff Addr |
To get to George and Becki use "orndorffg(at)aol.com"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
Bob S: I'm at the point of having to decide on upholstery options for my 6A.
I've heard George Orndorf say the temperfoam takes too long to soften
comfortably on cold days and to use high-density polyfoam from a fabric
store. What's been your experience? What about the rest of the gang- what
are you sitting on and how do you like it?
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
The ps will likely fit under the baggage floor, but unless you have a heavy
engine/prop/accessory combination, you might want to consider as forward a
location as you can get to preserve cg range. I have nut-plated my whelen
supply to the firewall on the pax side in the upper triangle section formed
by the stiffeners. I hope it will not prove to be in the way of anything.
If it is, I will move it later. Everyone tells me the 6A suffers from a
tendency toward tail-heaviness. With electric trim and a tail position light
and vertical stab strobe head already installed on mine, I didn't want to
take the chance. At the rate I'm trudging through the instrument panel
design/layout process, it will be a long time before I find out how the cg
came out!
Waiting for finishing kit, which will probably arrive before I'm ready for
it...
Bill Boyd western VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips ) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Small Talk From the OMABP (long) |
Another week went by at the Old Mens Airplane Building Project.
Its so hot here now that even with an evaporative cooler in the
hangar we still cant work past about noon. It was 106 yesterday. We
are going to have to scrap the Carter 4 barrel carburetor. It just
wont tune. Weve ordered a Holly 2-barrel 500 cfm and the leaning
kit for it too. In spite of that we did fly 3 times this week and even
this morning. For those of you who like number crunching the takeoff
roll 0 to 70 mph was just a tad under 9 seconds with a gross weight of
1450lb. We climbed to 3500 msl from 2000 and ran racetrack patterns
over the airport for 25 minutes. The coolant temperature began to
climb past 210 F so we backed off power from 23 inches to 17. It
stabilized but didnt come down. We were always able to attain a
temperature split of about 20 degrees between engine and radiator
output.
At the hangar we pulled and read the plugs. The outer cylinders
were running leaner than the middle ones,as usual, but they were too
lean. Without boring everyone, by going into the minute details of
this carburetor I will just have to say that its highly modified at
this point and the metering rods on the primary jets we too lean when
running at 17 inches of manifold pressure. With the springs were
running they dont transition to the richer setting until 19 inches.
The secondary barrels are set up richer but never kicked in at the low
manifold pressure. So we ran the engine too lean. You might ask why
the EGT didnt show it. Well its broken and weve ordered a new one
but like everything else at the OMABP its slow in coming. And like a
bunch of kids, we wanted to fly our toy airplane.
The airplane itself is a dream to fly. Weve had it up to 170 mph
for stability testing and its as straight as a lawn dart. Weve
tried full control deflections at various speeds and looked for any
signs of flutter but see none. Today we indicated 70 mph on approach
with 20 degrees of flaps, touched down at about 60 and the nose came
through at about 55. Jess was flying and did a perfect job as usual.
I mounted a Sony Hi-8 video camera in the baggage compartment and
recorded all the temperatures, fuel flow/pressure, oil temp/pressure,
voltage and all the flight data. It was just more routine than
anything. Just puttin a little time on the system.
This week well change carburetors and get the EGT going again.
And, we need to rework some baffling under the cowling to move more
air through the radiator. Maybe by next weekend I can pass on some
positive data on speeds and rates of climb.
Best Wishes to all and have a good WeekBill Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Drew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansen |
I have been informed that Jon Johansen is expected in Durban, South
Africa late in June and I look forward to meeting and helping him
when he passes through. I believe he is planning a route from Perth
Australia via the Cocos Islands with an awful lot of Indian Ocean between
there and Durban. If any of the Australian listers can provide more
details I would appreciate them.
I have the only RV flying in South Africa which is
a RV6 first flown in May last year with an 0-320 D2A and the Sensenich
metal prop. It is inspiration for the dozen other builders and envy of all
others pilots. 75 hours and no problems from day one. Thanks Van.
Noel Drew
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>>I am 6' 3" tall, 175 lbs, 34" pants inseam. I tried on the factory
>>2. Can I get adequate headroom in the RV-6 with thinner cushions,
>>etc, and still have a comfortable seat?
>I don't know if you have experienced this, but sometimes when I am
>trying a car on for size, I may fit but its a little tight (head
>brushing headliner, etc.). After fifteen minutes of driving I forget
>all about that. I seem to "stretch" when trying something on for
>size, then go into more relaxed mode when I forget about trying to
>fit in it.
I'm 6'1", and had a ride in a -6 a few months ago. It had been built
by a short guy for himself & his wife. I found that my head was
hitting the canopy unless I sat in a slightly contorted position. An
important point I'll make is that you should wear a headset when
you're trying a plane out for size.
My $0.02 worth.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Boone Fly-in Question |
Hi Folks,
Well, I couldn't make the Boone IA fly-in yesterday. We at Chapter 260
here in Lansing (near Chicago) had our pancake breakfast today. Had a
good turnout for the way it was -- about a 300 ft ceiling in fog all
day and, of course, not a plane flying.
Dick Gross had his RV-6 there for Young Eagle flights, but no dice. It
was fun to see the look on Dick's face when a young guy demonstrating a
radio control helicopter inverted it and flew about 30 ft over Dick's
plane on the ramp! My heart skipped a beat and I find it amazing we
didn't have to administer CPR to Dick.
I would very much appreciate a report of the Boone fly-in and
especially anything new and exciting. If you don't think it is
appropriate for the list, please send it to me privately. All
responses welcome.
Best regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn) |
| Subject: | Re: HS FRONT SPAR QUESTION |
>There's been a lot of talk about hs front spars. Van's manual says to pilot
>drill the holes and then the drawing says that some of these holes should be
>drilled in the assembly with the fuselage. What is the correct method and
>is it OK to pilot drill all the holes.
>
>Jim Cimino
>RV-8 sn#80039
>
>
Jim,
I called Van's on that issue, after I had pilot drilled the holes. Ken
Scott told me that there was no problem as the 3/16 assembly holes would
correct any uncentered holes. I also put that question on the net a couple
of weeks ago. All respondents (private) assured me that it was OK.
I just finished driving the 120 #4 rivets in the rear spar last night!
Good luck,
Ron
Ron Dunn #80078
RV-8 > HS in jig
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john henley <j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Bulkhead cutouts for J-channels |
In attempting to fit the J-channels on the fuselage bulkheads, I find that
some of the cutouts are such that the channels fit in ok, but others are
missing the enlarged part of the cutout that allow the "curl on the bottom
of the J" to fit.
I either have to notch the channel or enlarge the cutout in the bulkheads. I
can't find this addressed by Vans or Justice. I figure I am supposed to
enlarge the bulkhead cutouts but then I am doubtful because why wouldn't
Vans make them all the same unless the channels are supposed to be notched?
Any help will be appreciated.
John Henley, RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Haviland <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Michigan Wing FlyIn |
The Michigan Wing of Van's Air Force will meet at Dalton Airport
(about 10 miles NW of Flint International) on Sunday June 23, 1996 at
noon. Lunch is a "bring a dish to pass" potluck. Their are numerous
experimental category planes (including an outstanding RV-6) based at
the field and anyone interested is invited.
http://members.tripod.com/~6Alady/rvmi.html includes a map for those
who elect to drive. Please feel free to send an email directly to us
if you need more information.
Jack & Katy Haviland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
Hi Folks,
Regarding the personal height capability of the RV-6, I don't think the
guys at the factory are giving you a snow job when they say you have
the ability to build the seats so that you will fit very nicely if you
are up to about 6' 4". I am just under 6' 3" with relatively short
legs (about 21" inseam), so a lot of my height is in my back. I fit
very comfortably in Dick Gross' RV-6, complete with a headset. He has
the tilt-up canopy. I have heard that the new sliding canopy has even
more head room potential.
So I suspect the bottom line is, if you are 6' 3" or under, you can
build either a -6 or an -8 so that you will be comfortable. For me, if
my wife expressed a preference for the -6, that would really lean my in
that direction. (Which she has; I am building the -6, but I prefer it
to the -4 or -8 anyway.) But different strokes for different folks.
Best regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HS FRONT SPAR QUESTION |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Previously written:
>There's been a lot of talk about hs front spars. Van's manual says to pilot
>drill the holes and then the drawing says that some of these holes should be
>drilled in the assembly with the fuselage. What is the correct method and
>is it OK to pilot drill all the holes.
I can't speak for a RV-6 or RV-8 as I haven't seen their plans, but in
the RV-4, the four holes for the bolts that attached the rear spar to the
fuselage were pilot drilled on my airplane, and then matchdrilled to
final size in assembly. If these are the holes in question, then follow
Van's instructions - pilot drill them when building the stab and drill
them to final size in assembly!!
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indorect.com)
RV-4 N96MK (left wing flaps links, root fairings, etc.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Let's knock this off. It's the "RV-List", remember?!! Talk backroom
politics elsewhere.
Recent thread:
>>Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
>> >what's a little shipping charge anyway!
>> >-Elon
>> >
>>
>> Elon, no offence intended but some of us who live in small nations and not
>> the U.S. actually like it that way and consider the occasional shipping
>> charge worth it.
>>
>> I don't want to get a patriotic shouting match going here but that attitude
>> of some americans that the rest of the world is some how inferior is very
>> annoying. The US has its major advantages and major disadvantages just like
>> any other country including mine.
>> As a resident of an even smaller country (Trinidad)I feel that
>I have to join in and support ! I don't think that Americans realise
>just
>how offensive their assumption that everything American is necessarily
>better
>can be. Too many don't even know where Trinidad is !
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Rod Woodard
| Subject: | HS Skin Rivet Selection |
Hello everyone,
I am now getting ready to skin the top side of the HS of my RV-8 and I have a
couple concerns. First, the rivet the plans call for is an AN426AD3-3.5, using
that rivet the protruding shank length beyond the dimple is .133" (about .010
shy of the minimun 1.5*D to get a good shop head) I'm sure I'll just use the -4
rivets and hope I dont bent over too many. Are they maybe thinking that you are
going to countersink the skin and not dimple as the instructions say? Second, I
dimpled the skin with cleaveland dies and a C-frame tool and many of the rivets
don't set 100% flush, I plan on just countersinking slightly those holes to get
a flush rivet, Does anyone see a problem with that? I know it all kind-of sounds
picky but I really dont want to screw this thing up at this point.
Nervous in Colorado,
Greg Puckett
RV-8 80081
71155.2336(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>Bob S: I'm at the point of having to decide on upholstery options for my 6A.
> I've heard George Orndorf say the temperfoam takes too long to soften
>comfortably on cold days and to use high-density polyfoam from a fabric
>store. What's been your experience? What about the rest of the gang- what
>are you sitting on and how do you like it?
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill, Yes, I agree with George. I flew the 40 hours off my six in March of
95 and it was cold. After 5-6 hours, my rear was sore. I flew with the 3
layer Temperfoam in a pillow case so there was not much material to lessen
heat transfer. Temperfoam needs some heat to conform and I don't think the
bottom layer (most dense) could ever be affected. (I think this material is
made of old concrete park benches) I solved the comfort problem by putting
a 1 inch layer of medium density, generic foam over the Temperfoam. I put a
1 inch layer of the same material over the 1 inch of Sunmate that I used for
the seat back.
I had the opportunity to talk with Jim Fix, Lincoln, NE prop guru and
Temperfoam/Sunmate dealer a few days ago when he re-pitched my Sensenich
prop for me. I relayed the above opinion to him and told him that I was
thinking of using less dense Temperfoam or Sunmate for the seat cushions on
my next RV. He was surprised about my comments on lack of comfort but
discouraged the idea of usiing any foam other than the three layer
Temperfoam. His basis for this was mainly from a safety standpoint as he
had knowledge of mishaps where the surviviors of high G crashes credited the
Temperfoam for saving their lives. I really feel that he was sincere in his
beliefs and was not telling me this just to sell Temperfoam. In other
words, I don't believe money would motivate him to tell anything but the
truth. I haven't checked Jim's current prices, but I'd bet that his prices
are better than Aircraft Spruce. After talking to Jim, I'll probably use
the Temperfoam in the next RV.
By the way, I just got back from the Boone RV fly-in and saw a lot of
DJ's seats. They are nice but are quite pricey. I'd sure look in to George
and Becki's options for seats. I had mine done at a local car/boat/plane
upholsetery shop. I supplied the two 3-layer Temperfoam seat cushions and
two one inch Sunmate seat backs and the shop supplied the one inch generic,
medium density foam and the covering. They charged me a total of $165.00.
This included two black vinyl stick booties as well.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
>Has anyone mounted their strobe power supply under the baggage floor on an
RV-6?
>If so what did you use for a mount, etc.?
>I'm thinking of putting mine, a standard Whelen, under the baggage floor
>directly behind the F-605 bulkhead and using nutplates on that section of
>flooring.
>
>Thanks,
>Stan Blanton
Stan, If you're not using a constant speed, you might want to consider
mounting the power supply farther forward, maybe on the firewall. I mounted
my single power supply for the vert. stab. single strobe behind the baggage
compartment. This was a mistake as I needed more weight forward. I was
planning on doing this on the six I'm building now. I'd be interested in
hearing from other builders who used the single unit in the cockpit that are
firing wing tip strobes. Any radio interference problems? Did you use
shielded wire out to the strobes? How about wire routing?
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
Anyone else building an RV-8 have HS-602 instead of HS-802. The plans and
manuals call for HS-802 and Van's sent HS-602's. Is this correct. I assume
it is.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn#80039
working on HS front spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Bob S: I'm at the point of having to decide on upholstery options for my 6A.
> I've heard George Orndorf say the temperfoam takes too long to soften
> comfortably on cold days and to use high-density polyfoam from a fabric
> store. What's been your experience? What about the rest of the gang- what
> are you sitting on and how do you like it?
>
> Bill Boyd
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
I have seats from DJ Lauritson with temperfoam and both ends smile when
I sit down, either hot or cold weather!!! I have temperfoam in a open
cockpit biplane also--IT IS WORTH TWICE THE MONEY IT COSTS. Just plan
on an hour and numbness sets in with the cheap stuff. 4 to 5 hrs still
comfortable on temperfoam--
That has been MY experience---Now let's see the screen lite up with the
usual dissenters out there---always a minority voice isn't there(and
usually loud).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | HS Skin Rivet Selection |
I bought a whole bag of "4" length rivets because the dimpled skin/ribs are
too thick for 3.5's as you found out. None bent over in riveting.
As for countersinking the holes - bad idea I think to countersink a dimpled
hole. You don't want to weaken these joints for some minimal cosmetic gain.
Besides during the flush riveting I found that the heads formed slightly or
the hole gave slightly as the finished result is far smoother than it was
when I just put the rivet in the hole and felt across the surface.
-Mike
----------
From: Greg Puckett[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!71155.2336(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 1996 4:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: HS Skin Rivet Selection
Hello everyone,
I am now getting ready to skin the top side of the HS of my RV-8 and I have
a
couple concerns. First, the rivet the plans call for is an AN426AD3-3.5,
using
that rivet the protruding shank length beyond the dimple is .133" (about .01
0
shy of the minimun 1.5*D to get a good shop head) I'm sure I'll just use the
-4
rivets and hope I dont bent over too many. Are they maybe thinking that you
are
going to countersink the skin and not dimple as the instructions say?
Second, I
dimpled the skin with cleaveland dies and a C-frame tool and many of the
rivets
don't set 100% flush, I plan on just countersinking slightly those holes to
get
a flush rivet, Does anyone see a problem with that? I know it all kind-of
sounds
picky but I really dont want to screw this thing up at this point.
Nervous in Colorado,
Greg Puckett
RV-8 80081
71155.2336(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
Absolutely correct. They're the same part.
----------
From: jcimino.microserve.com!jcimino(at)matronics.com[SMTP:jcimino.microserve.com!jcimino(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 1996 5:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: HS-802 question
Anyone else building an RV-8 have HS-602 instead of HS-802. The plans and
manuals call for HS-802 and Van's sent HS-602's. Is this correct. I assume
it is.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn#80039
working on HS front spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead cutouts for J-channels |
John, been there done that. Either modify the bulkhead or
notch the channel or both. Don't know that it matters.
Important thing is that the channel fits with little to no
rubbing
chet razer: riveting fuse skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
I'd be interested in
>hearing from other builders who used the single unit in the cockpit that are
>firing wing tip strobes. Any radio interference problems? Did you use
>shielded wire out to the strobes? How about wire routing?
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
Bob:
I have the power supply in the baggage area of my 4 firing tip and tail strobes.
The cables were the supplied ones from whelan and were grounded at the power
pack. I did go thru terminal blocks inside the fuselage at the wing roots.
I have no strobe noise in the radios.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-802 question |
Jim,
Somewhere on the drawing it explains that by reworking the HS-602s, they
become HS-802s.
Phil
>Anyone else building an RV-8 have HS-602 instead of HS-802. The plans and
>manuals call for HS-802 and Van's sent HS-602's. Is this correct. I assume
>it is.
>
>Jim Cimino
>RV-8 sn#80039
>working on HS front spar.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I am looking for the correct spacing of rivets on the first four ribs on the 6A.
I noted from George O's tape that the spacing is different but I can not locate
it on the drawings. This would be front and rear spar attach points.
Thanks to all.
Rick 74774.54@compuserve,com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted French <french(at)computime.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> >Has anyone mounted their strobe power supply under the baggage floor on an
> RV-6?
> >If so what did you use for a mount, etc.?
> >I'm thinking of putting mine, a standard Whelen, under the baggage floor
> >directly behind the F-605 bulkhead and using nutplates on that section of
> >flooring.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Stan Blanton
>
> Stan, If you're not using a constant speed, you might want to consider
> mounting the power supply farther forward, maybe on the firewall. I mounted
> my single power supply for the vert. stab. single strobe behind the baggage
> compartment. This was a mistake as I needed more weight forward. I was
> planning on doing this on the six I'm building now. I'd be interested in
> hearing from other builders who used the single unit in the cockpit that are
> firing wing tip strobes. Any radio interference problems? Did you use
> shielded wire out to the strobes? How about wire routing?
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
Bob
I installed the Wheelan power supply with the wingtip strobes (The comet-flash,
I think its called)
I have had no interference at all with my comm. I used shielded wire for the
runs to the wingtips.
My 6A is done and I'm just in the process of taxi testing. First flight should
by Tues or Wed.
Ted French RV-6A C-FXCS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blfogerty <bfogerty(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | RV list addition |
Please add my name to the RV Internet list, as above. I am 25% through on a
RV6A, and need all the info and encouragement I can get.
Thanks,
Barry Fogerty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Top fwd fuse skin |
You write:
I'm a long way from this part, but it occurs to me that it might be
worth replacing the rivets with screws, so that access to instruments
for maintenance is less of a chore. Or would the hassles of preventing
leaks and/or fixing instruments damaged by leaks be greater than the
hassle of occasionally crawling under the dash?
--
There are too many screws to do it this way. Just make the instrument panel
removable and that will help a lot if you have to work on things behind the
panel.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight) |
| Subject: | Re: Greenville, SC Young Eagles |
Bill Costello wrote:
>Well, I couldn't make the Boone IA fly-in yesterday. We at Chapter 260
>here in Lansing (near Chicago) had our pancake breakfast today. Had a
>good turnout for the way it was -- about a 300 ft ceiling in fog all
>day and, of course, not a plane flying.
Bill,
Sorry to hear about your bad weather yesterday. You can celebrate
vicariously with me on our FANTASTIC Young Eagles rally yesterday in
Greenville, SC. We don't have a final count on the kids flown yet, but we
think it is just over 400! (We stopped counting after about 300). We had 17
aircraft flying, including a Lake amphibian, Jetranger helicopter, Beech
Baron, a Husky, Thorp T-18, and lots of 172s, 182s, and misc. Pipers.
(Alas, no RVs. Sigh...) The line to get on the planes usually lasted about 2
hours, and people stayed in line even during a few short showers.
Last year, we only had about 50 Young Eagles. Why the 8-fold increase? A
couple of reasons: This year we had the Confederate Airforce's B-29, B-24,
and B-25 on display throughout the week. The local media gave this a fair
amount of attention, and we used this to our advantage. We also got the
newspapers excited about the Young Eagles program, and they interviewed
several of the pilots in our chapter, in addition to spreading the word of
"free airplane rides on Saturday".
My Sonerai was down for maintenance, so I ran the ground school instead of
flying. My voice is hoarse from talking to hundreds of kids and their
parents about the wonderful world of sport aviation and how they can be a
part of it.
Man, what a day!!
Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
EAA Chapter 249 V.P. & Young Eagle Coordinator
Sonerai IILT -flying
RV-6 empennage done, hope to hang a wing spar in the jig in a couple of weeks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
>Has anyone mounted their strobe power supply under the baggage floor on an
>RV-6?
>If so what did you use for a mount, etc.?
>I'm thinking of putting mine, a standard Whelen, under the baggage floor
>directly behind the F-605 bulkhead and using nutplates on that section of
>flooring.
Just a couple of days ago, I was laying on my back under my fuselage jig,
starting to think about wiring. I too am probably going to put the Whelen
supplu under the baggage floor right behing F605.
I'll probably actually mount it to the belly skin rather than the bottom
side of the floor. I'll rivet a doubler in place, drill four holes, and
snap some tinnermans over the mounting holes in the Whelen supply.
I think this is a good location for three reasons:
1. All the wiring to the strobes is behind the spar, so why try to route
three big cables past the spar. Instead, with the power supplu under the
baggage floor, all that needs to get routed is power and ground.
2. Some strobe power supplies make noise (not the RF kind, the kind of
noise you can hear). putting the supply under the floor will help deaden
the noise if it exists.
3. I'm trying to keep the strobe wiring isolated as much as possible from
the Comm wiring.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
fuselage ready to rivet
switching to IO320 overhaul mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead cutouts for J-channels |
John Henley wrote:
>In attempting to fit the J-channels on the fuselage bulkheads, I find that
>some of the cutouts are such that the channels fit in ok, but others are
>missing the enlarged part of the cutout that allow the "curl on the bottom
>of the J" to fit.
Notch the bulkheads to fit the J-channels.
The other thing to watch out for is that the bottom-most (top-most in the
jig) j-channels may not fit far enough outboard to meet at the intersection
of the bottom skin and the side skins. Be sure to trial-fit your skins
before drilling the bottom j-channels to the bulkheads.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
ready to rivet fuselage skins
but switching to io320 overhaul mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>Hi Folks,
>
>Regarding the personal height capability of the RV-6, I don't think the
>guys at the factory are giving you a snow job when they say you have
>the ability to build the seats so that you will fit very nicely if you
>are up to about 6' 4". I am just under 6' 3" with relatively short
>legs (about 21" inseam), so a lot of my height is in my back. I fit
>very comfortably in Dick Gross' RV-6, complete with a headset. He has
>the tilt-up canopy. I have heard that the new sliding canopy has even
>more head room potential.
>
>Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
>Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
>
>
Bill,
Are you SURE that your inseam is 21"?? I thought I had a long torso at
5'11" and an inseam of 29". Must be difficult to find pants off the rack.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LWFL69A(at)prodigy.com ( MICHAEL T PIA) |
| Subject: | Message from Ralph |
Ralph, Karl told me you had an account again. Welcome back. Tuesday
and Wednesday are no good so maybe either Monday or Thursday. Call me
tommorow night and we'll see whats going on.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
I have just heard a rumor that Lycoming has developed an electronic ignition.
Anyone know anything about this?? Any detail of the system and the cost?
Royce Craven
Melbourne Oz
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> |
| Subject: | RV:list, airplane financing |
hello all,
I have been a lister since the begining. Mostly I just read the
posts and learn. I am currently building an RV-4 (tail, wings,
are done); fuselage is begun.
I am planning on buying a Pitts S2-B as trainer & time
builder untill I get the RV-4 done. Does anyone have any info
as to the best place to seek financing in such an endevor?
Thanks to all in advance
Thomas R. Boatright
trboatri(at)ux1.cso.edu.uiuc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
(Bob Skinner) writes:
>.I would like to hear from people that mounted their power pack on the
firewall
w/wingtip strobes.
I have my power pack mounted to the firewall (high & left of center). Strobe
wires are Whelen shielded running behind and under the battery box. I built a
channel (cover) for
wires that I ran next to the center left floor stiffener. Wires then proceed
up and over the main spar into conduits that empty into the seat ribs, then
through grommets into the wing. Yeah I know, strobe wires close to fuel
lines..... All wires in this area double protected with plastic spiral wrap.
(same type of wrap used in protecting fiber optic cable). I have no strobe
noise in my com. Just turned 50 hours on the tach. First flight was on March
10, 1996.
I hope this helps a little..
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
SNIP>>>>>>>
>2. Some strobe power supplies make noise (not the RF kind, the kind of
>noise you can hear). putting the supply under the floor will help deaden
>the noise if it exists.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>fuselage ready to rivet
>switching to IO320 overhaul mode
Dave:
I don't think you will hear the power pack whine unless you shut the engine
down and listen real hard.:)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps |
<< 'm about to order the fuse and am trying to decide whether or not to order
the electric flap. I'm curious - after 700 hours, what prompted you to go to
the electric flap?? >>
Over the last 700+ Hrs of flying my RV-6A, I've found it most
uncomfortable to pull up the flap handle. I'm not the narrowest guy around
(223 Lbs) and with another guy of similar width in the right seat, somebody
has to move their arm in order for the flap handle to be lifted. And at an
overall hieght of 5'11", the flap handle needed to be lifted almost to my
armpit for full flaps. Couple that with an airspeed between 80-100 Mph, and
that flap handle is a handful to pull.
The electric flaps have solved all those problems. Flew it for the first
time last Friday with no noticeble trim problems. Also tested them at 40
degrees, 100Mph just to be sure everything would work OK. Sure is a lot
easier toggling that switch!
In my RV-6A, I've tried to avoid running the strobe wires along side of
radio antenna wires. Only the tail strobe shielded wire runs next to a Comm
antenna wire, and I've not seen or heard any strobe power supply related
noises in that radio.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
You wrote:
>
>
>Bill,
>
>Are you SURE that your inseam is 21"?? I thought I had a long torso
at
>5'11" and an inseam of 29". Must be difficult to find pants off the
rack.
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>3233 NE 95th St
>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>Flying 5 years
>
>
Oops! Glad I fly better than I type. Make that 31". Sorry 'bout
that!
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV list addition |
>Please add my name to the RV Internet list, as above. I am 25% through on a
>RV6A, and need all the info and encouragement I can get.
>
>Thanks,
>Barry Fogerty
>
>
Barry,
You need to send e-mail to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com, and include the
word SUBSCRIBE in the message body.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
THANKS ROB, you said it much more tactfully than I might have. (as the
gung-ho jar-head puts his bayonet back in his scabert)
Where in the plans does it talk about Americas shortcomings? (Sorry could'nt
resist)
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply Seperator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Making false assumptions about Americans is not associated with building and
flying RV's. Let's all get back to RV's!
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q builder / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
>To all
>I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of reading some of the stuff I see being
>asked. I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired,
>rebuilt aircraft by all major aircraft companies.
>SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>later Harry Paine
>HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Now I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and reasonably
educated. I have a degree in electrical engineering and I've studied bio-
chemistry, Russian and some medicine. I have a private pilot's license and
an instrument rating.
But when I started out building all I knew about building an
airplane was that I was in love with the idea and had to give it a try.
At the beginning, I had trouble drilling holes in my practices pieces of
aluminum because I didn't know you had to punch the metal.
Now? I can tell you all about priming, air compressors, dimpling
vs. machine countersinking, fiberglassing, wiring, how the manifold pressure
line works, etc.
While that knowledge came from a number of sources, much of it
came from this list. The recent comments from people about avionics and
gps units has been very helpfull to me as I am about to buy.
I am grateful that I live in a country where it is legal and
affordable to build an airplane. I also hope the stupid politicians
don't screw up the valuable resource that the internet is.
So let's keep the info flowing.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bulkhead cutouts for J-channels |
Text item:
>In attempting to fit the J-channels on the fuselage bulkheads, I find that
>some of the cutouts are such that the channels fit in ok, but others are
>missing the enlarged part of the cutout that allow the "curl on the bottom
>of the J" to fit.
>I either have to notch the channel or enlarge the cutout in the bulkheads. I
>can't find this addressed by Vans or Justice. I figure I am supposed to
>enlarge the bulkhead cutouts but then I am doubtful because why wouldn't
>Vans make them all the same unless the channels are supposed to be notched?
>Any help will be appreciated.
Sorry about that. Enlarge the slot in the bulkhead to accomodate the curl in the
J-channel.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Bulkhead cutouts for J-channels
From: john henley <worldnet.att.net!j.henley(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 22:20:08 GMT
4.1)
(8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03768 for ; Sun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flop Tube |
> > That's my opinion as well. It doesn't cost much, it's easy to do while in
> > construction, and say, it make an otherwise boring 2nd tank construction
> > more interesting. Also gives you the opportunity to make as yet unmade
> > mistakes and improves Van's economy!
I chose NOT to put a flop tube in for the following reasons:
- It doesn't do you much good without fuel injection and inverted oil.
I don't plan on ever doing those, so why bother?
- More complexity = more potential failure points
- Less accurate fuel readings -- the fuel sender goes in a different
bay, or has to be some other kind of sender (e.g. more complexity,
cost, etc.)
- More work/expense/weight.
- Those tanks were a pain in the a** as it was.
I'm not saying other people shouldn't put one in if they feel it's right
for them, just offering "food for thought" for people who might be on
the fence about it. In my case, the "might as well, just in case"
equation just didn't add up.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: User Fees, Thank You Randall |
Dan: You're welcome. I know how easy it is to just sit on your
butt and hope "the other guy" will do something, I've done it
myself too many times. But I know if we end up with user fees and
I DIDN'T write my letter -- well, I'd sure wish I had.
I wish AOPA would start collecting e-mail addresses so they could
send these "alerts" out to us that way. E-mail has the advantage
that you're already sitting at your computer, so it's a small step
to go ahead and compose that letter and press the "print" button.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
> Randall,
>
> Thanks for the nudge to get me off top dead center. I, too, got the letter
> from AOPA urging response on the user fee issue, but with three daughters, a
> pregnant wife, a new house, and recent move, there is precious little free
> time. (Worst of all are my RV-6 wing and fuse crates buried under moving
> boxes in the garage!)
>
> I had intended to write my congressman earlier, but kept putting it off
> until I read your post yesterday. My letter goes in the mail tomorrow.
>
> Thanks for the boost,
>
> Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
> Anderson, SC
>
> RV-6 empennage completed, trying to get the new house livable so I can start
> on the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)blink.ho.att.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Skin Rivet Selection |
>> I am now getting ready to skin the top side of the HS of my RV-8 and I have
a
>> couple concerns. First, the rivet the plans call for is an AN426AD3-3.5, using
>> that rivet the protruding shank length beyond the dimple is .133" (about .010
>> shy of the minimun 1.5*D to get a good shop head) I'm sure I'll just use the
-4
>> rivets and hope I dont bent over too many. Are they maybe thinking that you
are
Just one point... There is a range of acceptable rivet lengths before driving -
between 1d and 1.5d. The 1.5d number is the max before you become more
likely to have problems with bending; it is also the recommended length.
The closer you can get to 1.5d the better. Practically, you can get away with
a little over 1.5d but not much because of the bending problem.
At the other end, 1d is a bare minimum - if you do everything exactly right
there should be enough material to get an acceptable shop head. If my calculations
are right, yours are coming in at about 1.4d. That should be
fine - you'll still have some margin in forming the shop head. Try a few on
scrap just to be sure. If you were closer to the 1d end of the scale, I'd
be more inclined to bump up to the next size, but not at 1.4d.
Good luck!
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a
t.goeddel@bell-labs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu (Jack Wigmore) |
| Subject: | 6 tail and wing kit for sale |
SAVE TIME AND MONEY? Buy my completed RV6/6A empenage kit (excellent) and
untouched wing kit ( not pre-punched) for $4000 USD total Price. Located
in Eugene Oregon.
Contact J. Wigmore (541) 935-2639
or wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
Is anyone on the list using a faying compound on any of the metal to metal
joints. If so, what type, cost, supplier, phone number, details etc.. I've
used Black Bear "Par Al Ketone" in the past but ACF 50 dissolves it and
washes it away slowly. I tried to get some chromatic paste from a supplier
last week but they said the EPA or someone had it banned and removed.
Help?
Greg Bordelon
Houston Texas
Squeezing rivets with my new Avery hand squeezer....wow, I like this tool!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: French "reseau du sport de l'air" |
Hey Guys!
This is a cute site!! Lots of pictures of Jodel Homebuilts. I own a Jodel
D11 - This is an Australian variant on the French design. As us Jodel owners
say "Bent wings are best!!"
---At least its a cheap fun thing to fly until I get my RV4 in the air! :-)
John
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RSAIR
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Morrissey
CSIRO ITS
Communications Section
Phone:- 06 2766811
Fax:- 06 2766617
Mobile:- 018 628804
Email:- John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
CSIRO ---- AUSTRALIA'S SCIENCE, AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Safety reminders |
Not just power tools, but all the corrosive chemicals as well. I have a
pair of "well etched" glasses which were a result of a nice mist of
alumaprep (pure acid etch) misting into my face when the wind changed.
If it melts glass I'm sure my eyeballs would have liked it none too much...
-Mike
----------
From: Richard Chandler[SMTP:Claris.COM!mauser(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 1996 2:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: Safety reminders
> Bye the way, when Don was telling me about keeping the rust away he
> also stressed that my engine was HOT. I've attached a ground wire to
> each mag, but I turn the crank backward anyway. He told me about
> a customer that was recently turning a new engine through with a
> srew diver and it 'popped' once and sent the screw driver into the
> side wall, where it was left as a reminder.
That reminds me of one of my personal safety reminders. If anyone comes to
my
apartment, they'll find half of a Dremel cut-off wheel embedded in my
ceiling.
I left it there as a reminder to always wear safety glasses when working
with
power tools. (And yes, I was wearing them when it happened. My previous
reminder was a small nick in the old glasses, right in front of my eye.)
Let's be careful out there. Those power tools are just waiting for the
moment
we become cavalier about them. Flesh is so much easier to work than wood or
metal.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
Bob,
A related matter to some of your questions: I mounted my wet compass in the
center top of the instrument panel on my 6, just to the left of the radio
stack. Used non-magnetic stainless for the canopy release handle. The
compass error was too large to adjust out.
What I found was that the DC power wires feeding my strobe unit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Sensenich prop update (long) |
Fellow RVer's: I've put some time on the new Sensenich prop installation
and have the following comments.
I have a 150 hp Lycoming in my RV-6 and so went with the recommended 70"
diameter/77" pitch. At full throttle at 7,500' (density altitude of
8,500'), leaned for best power, the engine turned at 2470 rpms. The true
calibrated airspeed was 178 mph. This is within 2-3 mph that I got with my
Props Inc. prop. I wanted to increase rpms closer to the 2,600 redline so
as to increase take off and climb performance and possibly increase cruise a
little. We reduced pitch a little over 2" making the prop a strong 74"
pitch. This increased the cruise, full throttle at 7,500' rpms to 2,560 with
a manifold pressure of 23", a gain of 90 rpms for just over 2" pitch
reduction. Cruise speed remained the same but take off and climb seemed to
improve somewhat. I did notice that at mag check rpms of 1,700 I had to put
more pressure on the brakes to stop forward movement. I believe the
Sensenich is probably more efficient than the Props Inc. (or any other wood
prop) due to the airfoil shape covering more of the blade area.
The Sensenich does not run a smooth as the wood props I have tried. My
Props Inc. ran much smoother after dynamic balancing and I will dynamically
balance any prop I have on my airplane, I really beleive in it. I will have
the Sensenich dynamically balanced within the next week or so and will
report any improvement. We put the Sensenich on a friends 150 hp RV-4 whose
Lycoming has the flat (conical) mounts. He has been flying a dynamiclly
balanced Prince prop (I've had this one on my RV and it is the smoothest so
far). He said the Sensenich about shook him out of the cockpit. He didn't
know if the needles were going to stay on his gauges or not. When we
re-pitched the Sen., we checked everything that could be checked and the
prop static balanced perfectly and the blades were in track, etc. This
might be a consideration for those of you who are using flat mounts.
Bottom line? I don't know. I like the looks of the multi laminate props
(Warnke, Props Inc., Performance props (?)) and the smoothness. Also, the
price is right. In the event of a prop strike, less damage to the engine.
Downside: Having to check torque on a regular basis and having to reduce
rpms through rain. Sensenich advantages: rain durability (and general
resistance to the elements), not having to check torque often, more flywheel
effect, lower idle setting therby reducing landing distance somewhat, the
ability to easily re-pitch and not having to worry about changing prop
contour around the spinner cutout as you would on a wood prop that is really
"re-carved" instead of re-pitched. If I can get the engine to run a little
smoother, I'll probably keep the Sensenich. If not, I don't know which one
I would choose to keep on my plane. Also, I'll know a little more after
flying the Sensenich at full gross at high density altitude.
Side note. I waited until most RVs took off for home at Boone and
watched them leave. You could tell the difference between the lower
powered, fixed pitched props and the RVs with big engines and/or constant
speed props. I gave a couple of rides and the guy that was with me was able
to compare engine sound and take offs bwtween my RV-6 and others and thought
that mine compared to other RVs i.e., the fixed pitched planes didn't sound
like they were developing much power because of the lower rpms. I've been
chasing perceived low power output on my engine and it now appears that
maybe other 150 hp/fixed pitched RV-6's are performing about the same as
mine. I guess the bottom line is: if you want breath-taking T.O. and climb
you're going to have to build a lite airplane and put a constant speed prop
on it. I felt that my climb rate was inferior to those rates reported by
some other similarly equipped RV-6's. When comparing, I think it's
important to know at what weight and what density altitude the climb tests
are done. I got great ROC at Sun & Fun and when it's cold here and the wind
is blowing but at full gross at a density altitude of 5,000 to 8,000 feet my
rate of climb is around 700 fpm.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Skin Rivet Selection |
>
> ...the rivet the plans call for is an AN426AD3-3.5, using
> that rivet the protruding shank length beyond the dimple is .133" (about .010
> shy of the minimun 1.5*D to get a good shop head) I'm sure I'll just use the
-4
> rivets and hope I dont bent over too many.
The important thing here is not the length before driving, but the rivet
dimensions AFTER being driven. The 1.5*D is just a somewhat
conservative "rule of thumb" -- rivets will smash down more or less
depending on how big the hole is, whether it's dimpled or machine
c-sunk, etc. Get a set of rivet gauges from Avery, and/or check the
dimensions as per the MIL-SPEC or A/C (using practice pieces) -- it's
not necessary (or even desirable) to go strictly by the 1.5d rule.
After a short time you should be able to get a feel for just how much
rivet should be sticking through by eyeballing it.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
>
Try NAFCO at 1 800 999-4515, fax 941 646-1671. I financed my -4 kit and engine.
> hello all,
> I have been a lister since the begining. Mostly I just read the
> posts and learn. I am currently building an RV-4 (tail, wings,
> are done); fuselage is begun.
> I am planning on buying a Pitts S2-B as trainer & time
> builder untill I get the RV-4 done. Does anyone have any info
> as to the best place to seek financing in such an endevor?
>
>
>
> Thanks to all in advance
>
> Thomas R. Boatright
> trboatri(at)ux1.cso.edu.uiuc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
>Bob,
>
>A related matter to some of your questions: I mounted my wet compass in the
>center top of the instrument panel on my 6, just to the left of the radio
>stack. Used non-magnetic stainless for the canopy release handle. The
>compass error was too large to adjust out.
>What I found was that the DC power wires feeding my strobe unit
Uh Oh, the rest of your message disappeared. Please send again. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
Try George Hill, Pitts dealer, at Eagle Air in Hampton, Ga. His phone # at
home is
770-228-1918 and dealership # is 770-707-1111.
Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Olson <rolson(at)Capital.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
I have exactly the same question about long term storage of engines. I
have a used O-320 I am storing on a stand in a dry basement. I made the
stand to mount the engine as on the airplane and did as the Lycoming rep
reportedly said and filled it with oil. I am not sure how much is staying
in the cylinders - it will run out the valves and out the intake or
exhaust. Just last week I poured Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders,
blew it around with an air line and rotated the crank. I think this
should keep the top in pretty good shape.
My consern is the cam shaft. I don't know if there is any way to
flood the area with oil and I am conserned about it pitting. Even if I
wind up overhauling the engine, this would be an expensive thing to add
to the bill. I was considering cleaning out the cylinders and reducing
the oil to normal levels and cranking the engine with the plugs out to
see if I could get enough oil pressure to lubricate the cam.
Would like to hear what others think and comments on my conserns. Are
there other things going on that are as bad that I haven't even thought
of? Thanks for raising the question.
Rich Olson - Saratoga Springs, NY - Just received 6A Tail Kit so I have a
long time to preserve!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich prop |
> **** SNIP *****
> I got great ROC at Sun & Fun and when it's cold here and the wind
>is blowing but at full gross at a density altitude of 5,000 to 8,000 feet my
>rate of climb is around 700 fpm.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
Bob:
Ever think about upgrading your engine to 160 Hp? 10 Hp more in a light
plane does make a noticable difference.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
>>Bob,
>>
>>A related matter to some of your questions: I mounted my wet compass in the
>>center top of the instrument panel on my 6, just to the left of the radio
>>stack. Used non-magnetic stainless for the canopy release handle. The
>>compass error was too large to adjust out.
>>What I found was that the DC power wires feeding my strobe unit
>
>
>Uh Oh, the rest of your message disappeared. Please send again. Bob
>
Here's the rest!
The DC power wires were causing the large compass error, even when I moved
them several inches away. I replaced them with shielded wire which solved
the problem. BTW, my power supply is behind the baggage bulkhead since I
have 180/CS.
Jim Stugart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Belly Vibrations |
Flying my friend's 6A we have noticed something pertinent to the "smoking
rivet" topic, though I am reluctant to get this one started again!. His
plane has NO interior including the floor. It's a 160 with Sterba prop, and
a Vetterman crossover exhaust. By placing your feet at strategic locations
on the floor you can either start or stop a huge drumming vibration in the
floor. With no interior the noise and vibration is very evident, and surely
must be instrumental in the loose rivets problem. To me this floor design is
not stiff enough regardless of the size and number of rivets used. I
suspect the real fix is to have more stiffeners and more closely spaced. We
do not however see any smoking rivets, but there are less than 200 hours on
the airplane.
Jim Stugart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
I've been reading with interest the stuff on the Sensenich vs wood
props, Bob Skinner's trials especially. If I read you correctly Bob,
you are now undecided trying to decide on smoothness vs slight
performance increase and higher cost.
I am rebuilding a HIO-360 for my -6. It has conical mounts and gets
it's rated 180 hp at 2900 rpm. I had considered getting a new cam to
get the rpm down to 2700 so I could use a metal prop. However, perhaps
the wood props might be better and I could keep my 2900 rpm cam.
Will the wood props perform well at around 2900 rpm?
How about the Catto or other three-bladed types (lower tip speed and
looks cool)?
Auybody else turning their prop a little faster?
Other considerations - engine wear, fuel burn, etc???
Dick Steffens RV-6 North Carolina
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
Greg, please enlighten me. What is a 'faying compound'? I learned a lot of
things I had not known when building the plane, but this is something that
got completely by me. Have I left something out that I should have put in?
Are my joints going to swell and become arthritic?:<)
John D
>Is anyone on the list using a faying compound on any of the metal to metal
>joints.
>Greg Bordelon
>
>
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
Pat, I disagree because I agree with you. I've got DJL seats and have found
them to be very comfortable summer and winter. The longest flight I've had
is 3:00, and it wasn't my butt that was hurting, seems my bladder isn't as
large as it use to be! Comparing DJL seats (with the temper foam or what
ever it is that cost extra) and the seats we had in the F-4s, the DJL wins
with a smiling 'moon'. Wish I had had them on those 6 to 14 hour missions
in the F-4, but I guess nothing would have been comfortable for that length
of time.
>> Bob S: I'm at the point of having to decide on upholstery options for my 6A.
>> I've heard George Orndorf say the temperfoam takes too long to soften
>> comfortably on cold days and to use high-density polyfoam from a fabric
>> store. What's been your experience? What about the rest of the gang- what
>> are you sitting on and how do you like it?
>> Bill Boyd
>> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>I have seats from DJ Lauritson with temperfoam and both ends smile when
>I sit down, either hot or cold weather!!! I have temperfoam in a open
>cockpit biplane also--IT IS WORTH TWICE THE MONEY IT COSTS. Just plan
>on an hour and numbness sets in with the cheap stuff. 4 to 5 hrs still
>comfortable on temperfoam--
>That has been MY experience---Now let's see the screen lite up with the
>usual dissenters out there---always a minority voice isn't there(and
>usually loud).
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
If you are concerned about the cam (and lifter), store the Lyc, upside down
on its back. The cam is in the top of the case so if you store it upside
down (on an old car tire) then the oil will cover the cam and lifters.
Herman
> I have exactly the same question about long term storage of engines. I
> have a used O-320 I am storing on a stand in a dry basement. I made the
> stand to mount the engine as on the airplane and did as the Lycoming rep
> reportedly said and filled it with oil. I am not sure how much is staying
> in the cylinders - it will run out the valves and out the intake or
> exhaust. Just last week I poured Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders,
> blew it around with an air line and rotated the crank. I think this
> should keep the top in pretty good shape.
>
> My consern is the cam shaft. I don't know if there is any way to
> flood the area with oil and I am conserned about it pitting. Even if I
> wind up overhauling the engine, this would be an expensive thing to add
> to the bill. I was considering cleaning out the cylinders and reducing
> the oil to normal levels and cranking the engine with the plugs out to
> see if I could get enough oil pressure to lubricate the cam.
>
> Would like to hear what others think and comments on my conserns. Are
> there other things going on that are as bad that I haven't even thought
> of? Thanks for raising the question.
>
> Rich Olson - Saratoga Springs, NY - Just received 6A Tail Kit so I have a
> long time to preserve!
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Pedal kits (chatter) |
I was thumbing through the June Sport Aviation last night (while the
Veriprime was drying) and showed my wife the little kiddie pedal kits in
the back. They had a picture of a Gee Bee and my wife said "GET IT!!!"
Has anybody built one of these kits? The company is Aviation Products in
Cedar Rapids, IA. There's no phone # and they want $20 for plans.
My almost 3 year old daughter would love this and I am now on the hook.
Thanks for your indulgence in this only slightly related topic.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix2.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | c214 squeezer for sale |
I have a rebuilt CP 214 for sale standard yoke 1 1/2" with 2 flush sets and
#40 #30 #20 cupped sets. price $250.00 COD. The last ones I had for sale
went in two days. If you need one this is a terrific deal. First email gets
it please contact me at HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
harry Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | of carb jetting & hot cylinders |
I started this chain some time ago and I now have some updates that I thought
might be of interest to you fellow listers.
As a quick recap, my RV-6 was plagued with a lean running engine (rich EGT's
in the 1450 to 1600 range with the ability of only leaning it about 40
degrees) caused by the MA-4-SPA 10-5135 carb. In addition to this problem I
had cylinder temps that were all over the place. The #2 cylinder was 310 & #3
was 470 in cruise. On take-off #3 would hit red line if I didn't step climb.
I thought that the above problems were related to one another and to some
degree (pun intended) they were.
I tried all of the voodoo fixes (like the chicken wire on the carb throat)
before getting real serious. BTW, don't do the chicken wire thing. It
lowered my rpm by 100 rpm and also gives forming ice a place to collect on.
I spoke with Van's, Consolidated Fuel and Mark Freeman(?last name) of RV-list
fame about the possibility of drilling out my carb jet. The fix almost
sounded too simple. After removing my carb (for the 100th time) I split it
in half and removed the fuel riser. The jet is found at the bottom of the
fuel riser. Mine measured out at a #42 drill bit size so I drilled it out to
a #39. On start-up I knew that I did the right thing because it ran great on
the ground. In the air I was able to lean out the engine about 80 to 100
degrees. I also noticed that my cold cylinders were running hotter and my
hot cylinders were running colder (about 30 degrees in both directions). So I
figured that if drilling the jet a little was good, drilling it more must be
better. Guess what, I was RIGHT for a change.
I drilled the jet out to a #37. Now rich EGT's are 1250 to 1280 and lean
EGT's are 1420 to 1460. CHT's changed about 10 degrees in both directions
but the hot cylinder was still to hot at 430 in cruise. It was time to look
for different problems. I found that the exit area on the lower cowl was all
cluttered with exhaust brackets and other unnecessary stuff. Cleaned up and
enlarged, I lowered the #3 cylinder to 410 in cruise.
As luck would have it, Rob Lee (another lister) was up in NJ from TX on a
business trip and I invited him to go flying. Rob has an RV-6A that had the
same jet problem. And as luck would have it, the weather sucked on the day we
got together. BUT, as luck would have it, Rob and I started poking around my
aircraft and Rob discovered that I forgot to complete my front baffle by
installing the rubber seal. I don't know how many people looked at this
aircraft and nobody picked-up on this. It took someone all the way from
Texas to find this problem. Thanks Rob (and thanks for finding my rubber seal
material for me - from across the room no less!). Well with that fixed I
found another 10 degrees. So at cruise I get the following (by cruise I mean
8000' and full throttle):
Cylinder # Rich EGT Lean EGT CHT
1 1250 1420 340
2 1250 1420 370
3 1280 1460 400
4 1280 1440 350
On take-off and climb (on a 80 degree day) #3 stays about 430 which is OK.
RPM spread between rich and lean is about 25 rpm. On the down side, the
engine runs very rich at low power settings and requires mixture control on
the ground. I didn't loose or gain any speed in the process which surprised
me. At 2720 RPM I show about 195 mph +/- 3mph. I can finnally take-off and
climb like an RV should however. I still think that my engine runs about 30
degrees to hot and I will continue to look for additional ways to cool it
down.
What temps are the other -6's running...I'd really like to know. Anyway, for
now I'll leave it alone and just enjoy flying it.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix3.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/8 Will I be comfortable? |
>aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>> Bob S: I'm at the point of having to decide on upholstery options for my 6A.
>> I've heard George Orndorf say the temperfoam takes too long to soften
>> comfortably on cold days and to use high-density polyfoam from a fabric
>> store. What's been your experience? What about the rest of the gang- what
>> are you sitting on and how do you like it?
>>
>> Bill Boyd
>> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
>
>I have seats from DJ Lauritson with temperfoam and both ends smile when
>I sit down, either hot or cold weather!!! I have temperfoam in a open
>cockpit biplane also--IT IS WORTH TWICE THE MONEY IT COSTS. Just plan
>on an hour and numbness sets in with the cheap stuff. 4 to 5 hrs still
>comfortable on temperfoam--
>
>That has been MY experience---Now let's see the screen lite up with the
>usual dissenters out there---always a minority voice isn't there(and
>usually loud).
>
>MY butts been on it for ten years and couldn't be happier, now if I could
just get my back to cooperate!
HP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Sensenich Re-Pitch |
Fellow RVer's, If any of you have the Sensenich CM prop and would like to
have it re-pitched, Jim Fix of Fix Prop Shop, Lincoln, Nebraska will
re-pitch it for $ 80.00. You pay for shiping and insurance, both ways. His
phone number is: 402-470-2346.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
For what it's worth, I put my power pack strobe under the baggage floor which
is removable. I put my ELT behind (but close) to the baggage wall. My CG is
fine. No problems with the radios.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
Call Bobby Thomas at Citizens National Bank in Laurel, MD. He is RV friendly
as he has built/flys an RV-4. Real good guy.
Sorry, I don't have is number on me but he should be in the book.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
>
>
>
> hello all,
> I have been a lister since the begining. Mostly I just read the
> posts and learn. I am currently building an RV-4 (tail, wings,
> are done); fuselage is begun.
> I am planning on buying a Pitts S2-B as trainer & time
> builder untill I get the RV-4 done. Does anyone have any info
> as to the best place to seek financing in such an endevor?
>
>
>
> Thanks to all in advance
>
> Thomas R. Boatright
> trboatri(at)ux1.cso.edu.uiuc
>
Try Greentree Financial in St. Paul, MN. They are actively financing
homebuilts and other "exotic" flying machines. Their number is
1-800-851-1367.
Doug Weiler,
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Boone Fly-in Question |
The Boone flyin was a major success. Weather was perfect for the first time
in several years. 30 RVs were on the field with about 150 in attendance. I
flew my 180 down with 6 Rvs from the local MN area. (of course they beat me
by 30 minutes!!).
We had a great pig roast. Several workshops were on hand (fuel tanks,
riveting, etc). Lots of partially completed components also on display.
Many nice RVs were there, but I was floored by the beautiful RV-4 by Lyle
Hefer of Dubuque, IA. Lyle built a beautiful -6 several years ago, and his
-4 was even better. It had a sliding canopy of his own design that really
changed the looks of the -4 (and for the better). He had a custom bubble
blown and the mechanism is ingenious (you roll it back with a little crank
like a P-51). Lyle modified the fuselage to move the instrument panel
forward and the front seat back slightly. I sat in it and and was most
comfortable. It felt better than any -4 I've been in. Footwells for the
rear passenger and ingenious "hanging" rear rudder pedals that were both
simpler and better looking than Van's design. His RV had the tall gear and
was powered by a 180 with a C/S. His cruise is 205 mph!!! Lyle master is
a master in in
the machine shop and many items he made himself (rudder pedals, tailwheel,
etc). If I can only convince him to tell me his secret of this canopy
design. It's great!!!!!
Doug Weiler,
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pedal kits (chatter) |
I built a pair of the X29/X15 jets that they offer.
Their plans and designs are first rate. I think it came with about
18 pages of detailed steps to build the plane.
The plans are full-size so you just cut them out and transfer to the
plywood. The jets were designed to use 1 sheet of plywood.
I had to buy a router (wanted one anyway).
They offer other kits for the welded components, wheels, decals, etc.
I used these as I wanted to minimize the time it took.
I built the two jets in about 4 or 5 weekends, including full paint
and decals. Showed them at the Kerville flyin twice. One made the
Pacific Flyer newspaper with my son 'flying' it.
I think they cost about $225.00 each with all the material, paint, etc.
This company offers about a dozen types of planes from Pitts, P51, etc.
all very good designs.
He usually shows them at Oshkosh by the main entrance by the control tower.
Herman
> I was thumbing through the June Sport Aviation last night (while the
> Veriprime was drying) and showed my wife the little kiddie pedal kits in
> the back. They had a picture of a Gee Bee and my wife said "GET IT!!!"
>
> Has anybody built one of these kits? The company is Aviation Products in
> Cedar Rapids, IA. There's no phone # and they want $20 for plans.
>
> My almost 3 year old daughter would love this and I am now on the hook.
> Thanks for your indulgence in this only slightly related topic.
>
> John
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Sensenich Re-Pitch |
The blade twist distribution from root to tip is a factor in propeller
performance.
The pitch on a controllable propeller is changed by rotating the blade
about a bearing at the root, preserving the twist distribution and
changing the angle of attack for each spanwise station an equal
amount. I imagine that the re-pitching process does not take place at
the root of the blade as there is an awful lot of metal there.
The posting below says that the job can be done inexpensively, which
makes me think that it is not a lengthy process. Does any body know
how this is done? Where does the blade deformation take place?
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Re-Pitch
Date: 6/11/96 12:13 PM
Fellow RVer's, If any of you have the Sensenich CM prop and would like to
have it re-pitched, Jim Fix of Fix Prop Shop, Lincoln, Nebraska will
re-pitch it for $ 80.00. You pay for shiping and insurance, both ways. His
phone number is: 402-470-2346.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:10:58 -0500
From: Bob Skinner <ltec.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Re-Pitch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: of carb jetting & hot cylinders |
Gary, you did not say what engine/HP you have. Can you post that info?
I have the same carb model number on my O320-E2D and have somewhat similar
problem of too lean a mixture.
I just got off the phone with Precision Airmotive (The Marvel carb mfg.).
They have a Ventrui Hotline (1-800-838-8181).
He said one of the main problems is mechanics that set the one piece venturi
in the carb and drive it down too far. It is suppose to stop with the 3 feet
where the carb halves meet. I plan to check this first.
He said to also check the bowl vent for blockage and the main jet for blockage,
and the intake tubes for air leaks. I don't think I have any of those problems.
He also told me to make sure I had venturi part number 46-F10. There are
several models that are close to the same. You can not see the part number
however unless the venturi is removed as it is stamped on the outside of the
venturi.
Herman
> I started this chain some time ago and I now have some updates that I thought
> might be of interest to you fellow listers.
>
> As a quick recap, my RV-6 was plagued with a lean running engine (rich EGT's
> in the 1450 to 1600 range with the ability of only leaning it about 40
> degrees) caused by the MA-4-SPA 10-5135 carb. In addition to this problem I
> had cylinder temps that were all over the place. The #2 cylinder was 310 & #3
> was 470 in cruise. On take-off #3 would hit red line if I didn't step climb.
> I thought that the above problems were related to one another and to some
> degree (pun intended) they were.
>
> I tried all of the voodoo fixes (like the chicken wire on the carb throat)
> before getting real serious. BTW, don't do the chicken wire thing. It
> lowered my rpm by 100 rpm and also gives forming ice a place to collect on.
>
> I spoke with Van's, Consolidated Fuel and Mark Freeman(?last name) of RV-list
> fame about the possibility of drilling out my carb jet. The fix almost
> sounded too simple. After removing my carb (for the 100th time) I split it
> in half and removed the fuel riser. The jet is found at the bottom of the
> fuel riser. Mine measured out at a #42 drill bit size so I drilled it out to
> a #39. On start-up I knew that I did the right thing because it ran great on
> the ground. In the air I was able to lean out the engine about 80 to 100
> degrees. I also noticed that my cold cylinders were running hotter and my
> hot cylinders were running colder (about 30 degrees in both directions). So I
> figured that if drilling the jet a little was good, drilling it more must be
> better. Guess what, I was RIGHT for a change.
>
> I drilled the jet out to a #37. Now rich EGT's are 1250 to 1280 and lean
> EGT's are 1420 to 1460. CHT's changed about 10 degrees in both directions
> but the hot cylinder was still to hot at 430 in cruise. It was time to look
> for different problems. I found that the exit area on the lower cowl was all
> cluttered with exhaust brackets and other unnecessary stuff. Cleaned up and
> enlarged, I lowered the #3 cylinder to 410 in cruise.
>
> As luck would have it, Rob Lee (another lister) was up in NJ from TX on a
> business trip and I invited him to go flying. Rob has an RV-6A that had the
> same jet problem. And as luck would have it, the weather sucked on the day we
> got together. BUT, as luck would have it, Rob and I started poking around my
> aircraft and Rob discovered that I forgot to complete my front baffle by
> installing the rubber seal. I don't know how many people looked at this
> aircraft and nobody picked-up on this. It took someone all the way from
> Texas to find this problem. Thanks Rob (and thanks for finding my rubber seal
> material for me - from across the room no less!). Well with that fixed I
> found another 10 degrees. So at cruise I get the following (by cruise I mean
> 8000' and full throttle):
>
> Cylinder # Rich EGT Lean EGT CHT
> 1 1250 1420 340
> 2 1250 1420 370
> 3 1280 1460 400
> 4 1280 1440 350
>
> On take-off and climb (on a 80 degree day) #3 stays about 430 which is OK.
> RPM spread between rich and lean is about 25 rpm. On the down side, the
> engine runs very rich at low power settings and requires mixture control on
> the ground. I didn't loose or gain any speed in the process which surprised
> me. At 2720 RPM I show about 195 mph +/- 3mph. I can finnally take-off and
> climb like an RV should however. I still think that my engine runs about 30
> degrees to hot and I will continue to look for additional ways to cool it
> down.
>
> What temps are the other -6's running...I'd really like to know. Anyway, for
> now I'll leave it alone and just enjoy flying it.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
You wrote:
>
>Call Bobby Thomas at Citizens National Bank in Laurel, MD. He is RV
friendly
>as he has built/flys an RV-4. Real good guy.
>
>Sorry, I don't have is number on me but he should be in the book.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>
Phone number is 410-792-7626. I have a call in for him. Thanks Gary.
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
This may have been discussed before but it is probably like the wheel
landing/three point debate: the discussion is ongoing. So->
To Gascolate or Not to Gascolate: that is the question.
The argument is that gascolators is 1930's tractor technology. How many do
you see on cars these days? There is debate in this neck of the forest
whether we need them (appologies to our Canadian brethren as they are
required). I know some who have put the inline glass filters under the
floorbords with little windows to see what is happening in the filters.
There is one for each tank. This makes all kinds of sense as, when the
sloshing compound decides to come unstuck it won't jam up the entire system
(as it would if a gascolator was used). There is argument also that the
lowest point in the fuel system on the RV-s is the tanks anyway and a
gascolator isn't much good for trapping water.
WELL: I have one on the -4 because "that's the way we've always done it" but
now I wonder if I have the best system.
Whaddya think?
Michael Kosta
RV-4 232SQ
Fly By July (or August, something, I don't know)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
| From: | "Calin Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Herman Dierks has a good point:
> If you are concerned about the cam (and lifter), store the Lyc, upside down
> on its back. The cam is in the top of the case so if you store it upside
> down (on an old car tire) then the oil will cover the cam and lifters.
I stored my Lyc upside down. I removed the spark plugs and filled each
cylinder with Stitts storage oil. Then I replaced the bottom set
of plugs (top set when the engine's upside down) with dessicant plugs,
just to be sure but I don't think there's any air in there at all.
I also replaced the crankcase oil with Stitts storage oil. With the engine
upside-down, you can fill it up to a level in the sump (covering all
moving parts) using about four gallons including the cylinders mentioned
above. The oil can't run out of the cylinders because the oil level
is above the cylinders.
I think I paid about $25 / gallon for the oil so the total price of storage
was a little over $100 with the plugs.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich prop |
>Bob:
> Ever think about upgrading your engine to 160 Hp? 10 Hp more in a light
>plane does make a noticable difference.......
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
Hi Fred, Yes, I've thought about it. I really messed up. I overhauled the
engine several years ago and at the time thought that I would use auto fuel.
I had been using auto fuel with no problems for years in my 1948 Cessna 170
and my 90 hp Super Cub. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I didn't
want to use auto fuel in the RV, so I should have put in the higher
compression pistons. I really hesitate to tear into the engine now as it
uses no oil, compression is good, etc. If I ever have any cylinder
problems, I'll probably convert to 160 hp, but for now will leave things as
they are.
Thanks, Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
>Flying my friend's 6A we have noticed something pertinent to the "smoking
>rivet" topic, though I am reluctant to get this one started again!. His
>plane has NO interior including the floor. It's a 160 with Sterba prop, and
>a Vetterman crossover exhaust. By placing your feet at strategic locations
>on the floor you can either start or stop a huge drumming vibration in the
>floor. With no interior the noise and vibration is very evident, and surely
>must be instrumental in the loose rivets problem. To me this floor design is
>not stiff enough regardless of the size and number of rivets used. I
>suspect the real fix is to have more stiffeners and more closely spaced. We
>do not however see any smoking rivets, but there are less than 200 hours on
>the airplane.
>
>Jim Stugart
Jim, does your friend's exhaust system have the turn downs on it? After I
installed turn downs on my Vetterman SS cross-over, vibration dropped a
little and noise dropped alot. I agree that more stiffners might help the
problem. Thanks for your comments on strobes. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
> I've been reading with interest the stuff on the Sensenich vs wood
> props, Bob Skinner's trials especially. If I read you correctly Bob,
> you are now undecided trying to decide on smoothness vs slight
> performance increase and higher cost.
I am rebuilding a HIO-360 for my -6. It has conical mounts and gets
> it's rated 180 hp at 2900 rpm. I had considered getting a new cam to
> get the rpm down to 2700 so I could use a metal prop. However, perhaps
> the wood props might be better and I could keep my 2900 rpm cam.>
> Will the wood props perform well at around 2900 rpm?>
> How about the Catto or other three-bladed types (lower tip speed and
> looks cool)?>
> Auybody else turning their prop a little faster?>
> Other considerations - engine wear, fuel burn, etc???
>
> Dick Steffens RV-6 North Carolina
> resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
Dick, My guess is that I'll keep the metal prop. I'm pretty sure that this
prop will benifit from a dynamic balance job. The metal prop seems to
provide more thrust even though the take off rpms are lower that with the
wood. Not having to check torque and being able to blast through rain are
other advantages.
As far as I know, the testing is not done on the prop that Sensenich has
designed for the 180 hp. It's possible that there won't be any redline
restriction on this prop.
It would be interesting to get comments from other builders who have
conical mounts and are running the metal prop. I wouldn't base my selection
on just my say so. The RV-4 that we put the Sen. on might have had some
trait in the engine/airframe that caused excessive vibration, I don't know.
I do know that the engine in this RV ran very, very smoothly with the wood prop.
I would think that it would be more cost-effective to reduce rpms through
prop pitch changes than to have to purchase a new cam, especially if you
were not going to split the case, anyway. This would drop the horse power,
though. I'm sure there are others on the list who know this engine and
could give you better advice, than I.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
I've had the guys from Van's over a few times looking over my fuselage
and they were talking about this very issue, and recommended an .040
aluminum sub-floor over the stiffeners, attached to the stiffeners
somehow, with insulation underneath.
Mike Seager is doing something similar on his current RV-6. He replaced
the two outer stiffeners with 3/4" deep by 1 1/2" wide "U" channels,
(custom made) and intends to pop-rivet the sub-floor directly to those.
______
| |
---+ +---
My intention is to use 3/4" angle screw/nut-plated or riveted to the
existing channel, and use nut plates/screws to screw the subfloor to
those pieces.
+---
||
---+
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Need Instructions on how to change E-Mail Address |
I have changed E-Mail address - What is the process to update the list??
Tail underway - Starting to skin....
--
********************************************************************************
Jeffrey S. Davis
Ford Motor Company
Supervisor - Performance Luxury Chassis Engineering
(313)845-8114 Fax (313)317-4960
********************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Re-Pitch |
The blade twist distribution from root to tip is a factor in propeller
> performance.
> I imagine that the re-pitching process does not take place at
> the root of the blade as there is an awful lot of metal there.
> The posting below says that the job can be done inexpensively, which
> makes me think that it is not a lengthy process. Does any body know
> how this is done? Where does the blade deformation take place?
>
> David Fried
David, You are correct. The re-pitching starts at around 20 inches or so
from the hub, I believe. I was there when Jim Fix re-pitched my prop but
don't remember the station numbers. There were about 4 stations marked
along the prop.
For each station there is a template that matches the prop at that
station. The template is placed on a---I don't know what you call it--- a
protractor kind of thing with degrees marked on it that is placed on a very
flat metal table. The prop is clamped down at the hub. Then, they take a
padded "U" shaped tool the width of the prop blade and with an arm about six
feet long and slide it into postion at the appropriate station and put some
weight on it. Jim draped his leg on the arm and really put some weight on
it. The pitch is checked and more bending is done, if needed. As he
progresses outward, different "U" tools with shorter arms are used. When
re-pitching is done, he checks track and balance. Jim didn't have to do
much bending and it only took one or two shots for him to get it right.
He's been doing this a long time.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
I apologize if this same basic message appears more than once. I think
I lost the first one in cyberspace...
A couple of us RV-8 builders are to the point where we need to install
elastic grommets in the VS and HS ribs to provide for lighting,
communication and navigation antenna and wires. We've found AN931
Elastic Grommets for sale on page 102 of the most recent AS catalog.
Can anyone give advice as to which grommets we need and how many?
Assume that we're installing every electronic/avionics gadget known to
man including the newly-released electric, turbo-charged, inverted
sliding canopy option. :-o)
Thanks in advance for the answers,
Greg Puckett and Rod Woodard
RV-8, #'s 80081 and 80033
Aurora and Loveland, Colorado
71155.2336(at)Compuserve.com
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
P.S. To Colorado RV-builders: I spoke with Van's this afternoon. They
are "for sure" going to bring the RV-8 and "probably" an RV-6 to the
Longmont fly-in on June 29-30. We'll see ya all there! And remember...
the line for RV-8 rides forms behind me! [rww]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Instructions on how to change E-Mail Address |
>I have changed E-Mail address - What is the process to update the list??
>
>Tail underway - Starting to skin....
>
>--
>***************************************************************************
*****
> Jeffrey S. Davis
> Ford Motor Company
> Supervisor - Performance Luxury Chassis Engineering
> (313)845-8114 Fax (313)317-4960
>***************************************************************************
*****
>
>
Send a message from your old email address to
rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
put
unsubscribe
in the body of the message
Then from your new email address do the same but put
subscribe
in the body.
Also, try to remember to turn off your signature, or make a small one, when
sending messages as they clog the archives.
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
Several of us building RV-8's are at a point where we need to install
grommets to provide for lighting, communication and navigation wiring.
What size should we be considering? And approximately how many will we
need for the entire project so that we can order them all at once.
We've found AN931 elastic grommets on page 102 of the most current AS
catalog. Can anyone out there suggest which sizes we should order and
install. Assume we'll be installing every electronic/avionics option
known to man including the optional electric sliding canopy.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Greg Puckett and Rod Woodard
RV-8, #'s 80081 and 80033
Aurora and Loveland, Colorado
P.S. To all the other Colorado RV-builders: I just talked to Van's and
they are "for sure" bringing the RV-8 and "probably" a -6 to the June
29-30 Longmont Fly-In. See ya all there! The line forms behind me! [rww]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulried(at)Interpath.com |
| Subject: | Pedal kits (chatter) |
>I was thumbing through the June Sport Aviation last night (while the
>Veriprime was drying) and showed my wife the little kiddie pedal kits in
>the back. They had a picture of a Gee Bee and my wife said "GET IT!!!"
>
>Has anybody built one of these kits? The company is Aviation Products in
>Cedar Rapids, IA. There's no phone # and they want $20 for plans.
>
>My almost 3 year old daughter would love this and I am now on the hook.
>Thanks for your indulgence in this only slightly related topic.
>
>John
>
John:
There is a company called Wings & Wheels, P.O. Box 1510, Jacksonville, OR 97530
phone # 503-878-1473 fax # 503 -878-1461 that offers what they call and RV-Sport.
You can
just get the plans or you can get a kit that has ABS cowling, wheel pants, and
a windshield.
It is a tail dragger that looks just like an RV-3. I built one for my kids and
they love
it, but it takes up a whole lot of space in the garage! You need to pull one of
the cars
out to get it past.
Paul Riedlinger
paulried(at)interpath.com
Empennage almost done....wing kit set to ship June 26th!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I guess they are getting a bit outdated, however I put one on my RV4.
I think the main value is that it could hold a lot of water if needed.
If you stopped for fuel and got some bad fuel (with water in it)
the gascolator may save you. How many of you drain your sumps after
you fill up at the pumps (on a XC lets say). I never have.
This can happen. I know of one FBO that had underground tanks and they
had a lot of water leak into the tank after some heavy rain.
The FBO was not aware that this had happened. There was so much water
that it filled the filter on the truck. Luckly, the line person noticed
that the filler spout was not cold as it normally was on fueling a plane
and they got to checking and they had pumped almost pure water into
the plane. Not even a gascolator would have helped this screw up.
However, you get the point.
These small inline filters will not trap the water.
Herman
> This may have been discussed before but it is probably like the wheel
> landing/three point debate: the discussion is ongoing. So->
>
> To Gascolate or Not to Gascolate: that is the question.
>
> The argument is that gascolators is 1930's tractor technology. How many do
> you see on cars these days? There is debate in this neck of the forest
> whether we need them (appologies to our Canadian brethren as they are
> required). I know some who have put the inline glass filters under the
> floorbords with little windows to see what is happening in the filters.
> There is one for each tank. This makes all kinds of sense as, when the
> sloshing compound decides to come unstuck it won't jam up the entire system
> (as it would if a gascolator was used). There is argument also that the
> lowest point in the fuel system on the RV-s is the tanks anyway and a
> gascolator isn't much good for trapping water.
>
> WELL: I have one on the -4 because "that's the way we've always done it" but
> now I wonder if I have the best system.
>
> Whaddya think?
>
> Michael Kosta
> RV-4 232SQ
> Fly By July (or August, something, I don't know)
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV:list, airplane financing |
AOPA also finances AC. If you are a member of AOPA, you should have received
junk mail on this. I think EAA also has someone that will do financing.
I used Bank1 locally here to finance a plane. Our credit union will also
do it. Many of these places have the usual red tape.
At Bank1, all they wanted to see was some comparable listings from trade-a-plane.
They did not need to see the logs or the plane. Nice and easy, but that may
have just been the person we dealt with. The message is, check your local banks,
as many are eager to finance and some have a person that handles the aircraft
loans.
> You wrote:
> >
> >Call Bobby Thomas at Citizens National Bank in Laurel, MD. He is RV
> friendly
> >as he has built/flys an RV-4. Real good guy.
> >
> >Sorry, I don't have is number on me but he should be in the book.
> >
> >Gary Corde
> >RV-6 N211GC
> >
> Phone number is 410-792-7626. I have a call in for him. Thanks Gary.
> --
>
> Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
> Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>To Gascolate or Not to Gascolate: that is the question.
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Whaddya think?
>
>Michael Kosta
>RV-4 232SQ
Michael:
I too puzzeld over this question 2 1/2 years ago when I was building. I put
it in and have never found anything other than gas in it in the 200 hours
I've been flying my 4.
I would want some form of filtration in the system if it wasn't there so I guess
the screen serves the purpose. I have given some thought to the potential
problem of a chunck of slosh comming loose and blocking the fuel system at
the tank switch but I have not seen any loose crud in the tanks when I sump
them.
So.......I fly it the way most everybody does with the gascolator.
One of the guys I hangar with elected not to use one, but has one large in
line filter after the tank selector. It's a high pressure injected
installation.
We'll see how that works out as far as how much of a pain it is to inspect.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I've got one because:
- that's the way we've always done it
- same reason I have an O320
- it makes me turn the fuel pump on, walk around, and check
the gascolator. I once noticed fuel pouring out from under
the cowl, when I turned the fuel pump off the flow stopped!
It was a hose which was leaking severely at a connector.
- its on my checklist forever
IMHO, you don't really need one but I'd install one anyway. Some logic
here, hu? (engineer) :-)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
Here's what I did: I asked Van's who suggested that grommets aren't as good
as just running the wire through a polished hole in the rib and then using
silicon all around it to completely secure the wire. I didn't like that
answer. A local mechanic then told me to just go buy some automotive
grommets, drill a hole or two and put them in the center rib. The end ribs
are easy to drill and fit once you know what you're going to be routing. I
used some grommets which looked like they would fit normal coax cable
(pencil thickness), figuring I wouldn't have anything bigger than that in
the tail anyway. I put two of them along the centerline of the center rib.
One I just put in the back by reaming the ?" tooling hole to size and the
other I just drilled about 3" farther forward. I hope this works!
-Mike
Getting good at drilling out rivets
----------
From:
lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com[SMTP:lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.
com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 1996 1:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wiring Grommets
I apologize if this same basic message appears more than once. I think
I lost the first one in cyberspace...
A couple of us RV-8 builders are to the point where we need to install
elastic grommets in the VS and HS ribs to provide for lighting,
communication and navigation antenna and wires. We've found AN931
Elastic Grommets for sale on page 102 of the most recent AS catalog.
Can anyone give advice as to which grommets we need and how many?
Assume that we're installing every electronic/avionics gadget known to
man including the newly-released electric, turbo-charged, inverted
sliding canopy option. :-o)
Thanks in advance for the answers,
Greg Puckett and Rod Woodard
RV-8, #'s 80081 and 80033
Aurora and Loveland, Colorado
71155.2336(at)Compuserve.com
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
P.S. To Colorado RV-builders: I spoke with Van's this afternoon. They
are "for sure" going to bring the RV-8 and "probably" an RV-6 to the
Longmont fly-in on June 29-30. We'll see ya all there! And remember...
the line for RV-8 rides forms behind me! [rww]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
Hi,
I had not questioned this issue before, but in my 9 years in the airforce
we were always required to use faying compound between riveted joints. What
is it? well - we used a yellow chromate type paste. I guess its a bit like
gasket cement on cars, but its never supposed to harden.
The maintenance manuals I have for military aircraft all require the use of
a faying compound.
I have not been using it on my RV6, although I am now wondering whether I
would be better off using it?
Regards
Mike Parkinson
RV6 HS
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Faying compound
HP-Singapore,mimegw1
Date: 11/6/96 11:33 PM
Greg, please enlighten me. What is a 'faying compound'? I learned a lot of
things I had not known when building the plane, but this is something that
got completely by me. Have I left something out that I should have put in?
Are my joints going to swell and become arthritic?:<)
John D
>Is anyone on the list using a faying compound on any of the metal to metal
>joints.
>Greg Bordelon
>
>
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Preserving Engines |
If you store your engine upside down and filled with oil, and especially if
you fill the cylinders with oil, you should tag it so you remember to drain
the cylinders before inadvertantly trying to turn it over with the starter
or prop. With a hydraulic lock in the cylinders it is possible to damage a
connecting rod.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
> I stored my Lyc upside down. I removed the spark plugs and filled
> each cylinder with Stitts storage oil. Then I replaced the bottom set
> of plugs (top set when the engine's upside down) with dessicant
> plugs, just to be sure but I don't think there's any air in there at
> all.
>
> I also replaced the crankcase oil with Stitts storage oil. With
> the engine upside-down, you can fill it up to a level in the
> sump (covering all moving parts) using about four gallons including
> the cylinders mentioned above. The oil can't run out of the
> cylinders because the oil level is above the cylinders.
>
> I think I paid about $25 / gallon for the oil so the total price
> of storage was a little over $100 with the plugs.
Couldn't you do the same thing with something cheaper, like Kerosene?
(I used to have a friend who kept his guns, with the grips removed, in a 5
gallon bucket of Kero. He never had to clean them. Just fish them out, wipe
'em down and oil them before he went shooting, and dump them back in when he
was done. Hoppes No. 9 is mainly Kerosene anyway.)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: of carb jetting & hot cylinders |
Gary; For what it's worth, I have an 0-320 e2d, have a single probe on the
#4 cly (left rear) and I get 290-315 cht and 1300-1475 egt. The egt is
located 1 1/2 in below the flange. The instruct. for the egt probe
suggested that location. I was advised later (by a guru) that I should have
put it further downstream so as not to 'burn' it out too soon. The cht is
probe type. I always considered this cht to be low, but doesn't seem to
have effected anything, unless it was the glazing of the cly walls and
resulting low comp at 125 hours. Don't know what caused that.
John D
>What temps are the other -6's running...I'd really like to know. Anyway, for
>now I'll leave it alone and just enjoy flying it.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Michael;
Since you asked. I had the gascolater because 'that's the way it's done'.
It didn't make sense to me at the time except that it was a strainer or
filter. I had some vapor lock problems with mine when using auto fuel. I
first shielded and blast tubed the gascolater. It apparently helped. Then
I thought about the slosh compound coming off, what it would do to the
smallest diameter in the fuel line- the elect boost pump. So I put an
inline see through auto type fuel filter in the lines from the tank to the
fuel selector, thinking that if the stuff comes loose, it would take an
awful lot to stop up the pleats in the filter, plus I could switch to the
other tank if so. The only thing, most of the auto fuel filters will sort
of turn to mush if they get water in them. So I check mine (in addition to
tank drain) before each flight, they are just forward of the main wing spar,
behind my heels on the left side, same location on the rt side. I plan to
change them out each yearly or 100 hours. Cost about 3.50 per.
As for water, I try to refuel before I let the plane sit over night. When I
went through AF fly training, at basic and advanced, they drilled into us
that the main source of water was condensation within the tank when it
wasn't full, like an over night cool down with the tanks only partially full.
The gascolater we were told was located in the lowest position of the fuel
system and served as a filter and settlement bowl.
In the RV6, I think I now have a filter in line, and a settlement bowl, in
the lowest part of the fuel system, the shape of the wing tank. So I have
the service of a gascolater without the gascolater which apparently was a
heat sink as well when it was in the engine compartment.
Incidentally, the local FBO says I should have it for the water that may
form in the lines from the selector to the carb. We have a difference of
opinion regarding that. When I asked him what would collect it that formed
from the gascolator to the carb, he said it won't form there!!
So, to answer your question, I don't have a gascolator anymore, and haven't
had any more vapor problems either.
So, it's your call as you know. But the above is my shadetree reasoning.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Re-Pitch |
David;
The pitch change takes place outside of a certain dist from the hub. The
Sensinich home page has info regarding this. I don't remember the exact
dist but it says something like 'no repitch should occur with in xxx dist of
the hub, where the thickness is xxx inches. Rather than give you what my
bad memory has, you can down load it from the horses mouth.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Exhaust Turndowns |
>
>Jim, does your friend's exhaust system have the turn downs on it? After I
>installed turn downs on my Vetterman SS cross-over, vibration dropped a
>little and noise dropped alot. I agree that more stiffners might help the
>problem. Thanks for your comments on strobes. Bob Skinner
>
>
I mentioned the use of turndowns on the exhaust at our last builders meeting
and the response was one of hesitation. The concern is that the turndown
will cause a significant upward thrust on the end of the exhaust placing a
tourque on the exhaust pipes. Is this a concern or are the exhaust pipes
secured in such a way as to compensate for this?
I remember a past post noting that turndowns were not availible for some
engine/exhaust combinations. Is this true?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
Bob;
Could I bother you for an elaboration on these turn down tubes? Are they
like the exhaust ext we use to put on our hot rods, chrome etc? Or are they
something that is welded on etc.?
John D
>Jim, does your friend's exhaust system have the turn downs on it? After I
>installed turn downs on my Vetterman SS cross-over, vibration dropped a
>little and noise dropped alot. I agree that more stiffners might help the
>problem. Thanks for your comments on strobes. Bob Skinner
>
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolators (displaying my ignorance) |
Well, time to display my utter ignorance of the fuel system.
What's a gascolator? I'm assuming it's some sort of filter. For a more
complete answer, how about listing the parts of the fuel system, beginning
with the fuel tank, in order.
Thanks.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Wings shipped last Friday.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Egil H|yer Grimnes <f.e.h.grimnes(at)fys.uio.no> |
| Subject: | New member of the list |
I am hoping to build an rv6 in time, in that respect I am wondering if any
of you have heard anyting about putting a Volvo engine in a rv?
There are these swedish guys who have put the 6cylinder version of a
960Volvo engine in a Piper Pony, it has been running for some time now
pulling gliders with a 4 bladed prop and silencer, nice and quiet!
I recently heard that someone has put a Volvo engine in an rv, probably
the 5 cylinder version of the same engine, but that's all I have heard.
Finn Egil Grimnes
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
Do you think adding some 3/4x3/4 angle in between the existing stiffeners
would be a good idea? It couldn't weigh that much.
Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
John Darby wrote:
>
> Bob;
> Could I bother you for an elaboration on these turn down tubes? Are they
> like the exhaust ext we use to put on our hot rods, chrome etc? Or are they
> something that is welded on etc.?
> John D
>
> >Jim, does your friend's exhaust system have the turn downs on it? After I
> >installed turn downs on my Vetterman SS cross-over, vibration dropped a
> >little and noise dropped alot. I agree that more stiffners might help the
> >problem. Thanks for your comments on strobes. Bob Skinner
> >
> >
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
The turn downs are about 4" long, made of the same material as the
exhaust with about 30 degree angle. I welded mine in 4 place around
perimeter--They fit over the exhaust tail pipes and fastening is dealers
choice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Turndowns |
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Jim, does your friend's exhaust system have the turn downs on it? After I
> >installed turn downs on my Vetterman SS cross-over, vibration dropped a
> >little and noise dropped alot. I agree that more stiffners might help the
> >problem. Thanks for your comments on strobes. Bob Skinner
> >
> >
>
> I mentioned the use of turndowns on the exhaust at our last builders meeting
> and the response was one of hesitation. The concern is that the turndown
> will cause a significant upward thrust on the end of the exhaust placing a
> tourque on the exhaust pipes. Is this a concern or are the exhaust pipes
> secured in such a way as to compensate for this?
> I remember a past post noting that turndowns were not availible for some
> engine/exhaust combinations. Is this true?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------
> Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
> 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
> Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
I have the vetterman exhaust crossover with the turn downs and get the
vibration in the floor--not severe but you hear it if you lift both feet
off the floor at the same time--I plan to try some of the sound
deadning foam with the aluminum backing, and carpet over that. It seems
slight enough that it is not noticable except when feet are lifted so
hope it will work--report later.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
>Bob;
>Could I bother you for an elaboration on these turn down tubes? Are they
>like the exhaust ext we use to put on our hot rods, chrome etc? Or are they
>something that is welded on etc.?
>John D
John, They are stainless and they are welded on. I saw Larry Vetterman at
Boone and he said that he has been shipping new cross-overs with the turn
downs already bent. The reason he didn't originally put the turn downs on
was so you had a lot more latitude on positioning the pipes because of the
ball joint. I assume that with the turn downs already bent in the pipes
that the range of positioning (so when you're done, the turn downs point
straight down) is somewhat limited but I don't forsee that being a problem
on a new installation. On a retrofit, as my installation was, having
"weld-on" turn downs might be an advantage because of easier retrofitting to
existing mounting (to engine) hardware. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Turndowns |
>I mentioned the use of turndowns on the exhaust at our last builders meeting
>and the response was one of hesitation. The concern is that the turndown
>will cause a significant upward thrust on the end of the exhaust placing a
>tourque on the exhaust pipes. Is this a concern or are the exhaust pipes
>secured in such a way as to compensate for this?
>I remember a past post noting that turndowns were not availible for some
>engine/exhaust combinations. Is this true?
---------------------------------
>Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
Ross, The pipes (at least mine) are secured in such a way that this
shouldn't be a concern. Let me tell ya, there is a BIG difference in noise
level. With out the turn downs, I don't think even a Bose headset would
quiet things down enough. Before I installed the turn downs, I was wearing
ear plugs under my Telex 4000 ANR and it was still loud. Also, exhaust
pulses from straight pipes might contribute to belly pan vibration and loose
rivets. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Re-Pitch |
Gang --
If I remember correctly, Van's is very concerned about the safety of
repitched props. The original manufacturer did NOT design them to be
repitched, so the likelihood of cracking goes up.
Please -- talk to an expert before you do this -- someone who ISN'T
involved in the repitching business. We don't want any props breaking.
Note that just because one person flew for 300 hours on a repitched
prop doesn't mean the next person who tries it will be so lucky.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Van's opinion is Don't Do It.
Maybe that's changed.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Engine oil consumption |
> I really hesitate to tear into the engine now as it
> uses no oil, compression is good, etc.
> Thanks, Bob Skinner
Okay. Here I am possibly mis-remembering something I just read. And maybe
your term "no oil" meant "the right amount of oil". A recent Kitplanes, if
I'm not mistaken, had an article about engine oil usage. I got the impression
the engine is supposed to consume a small amount of oil or it's not being
lubricated properly. The rings might be too tight and wearing badly.
Can someone more knowledgeable comment?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: of carb jetting and CHT's |
There was a post asking what engine that I have in my aircraft.
I have a 160 HP 0-320 turning a three bladed Performance prop.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Turndowns |
Larry Vetterman sells the turn downs for his exhaust system for $25
(including shipping) for the pair. The are SS. As far as the downturns
putting pressure on the exhaust system, the tail pipes are secured by
brackets and the ball joint (on the cross-over system) is made to move freely
so I would not worry about cracks.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan and Myrna Toupal" <DMToupal(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad |
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Mike Kukulski
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 1996 9:00 AM
Subject: RV-List: My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad
Can't we all just get along . . .
Recent thread:
>>Of course you could move to Australia and "import" your quality of life -
>> >what's a little shipping charge anyway!
>> >-Elon
>> >
>>
>> Elon, no offence intended but some of us who live in small nations and
not
>> the U.S. actually like it that way and consider the occasional shipping
>> charge worth it.
>>
>> I don't want to get a patriotic shouting match going here but that attitude
>> of some americans that the rest of the world is some how inferior is very
>> annoying. The US has its major advantages and major disadvantages just
like
>> any other country including mine.
>> As a resident of an even smaller country (Trinidad)I feel that
>I have to join in and support ! I don't think that Americans realise
>just
>how offensive their assumption that everything American is necessarily
>better
>can be. Too many don't even know where Trinidad is !
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
>Hi,
>
>I had not questioned this issue before, but in my 9 years in the airforce
>we were always required to use faying compound between riveted joints. What
>is it? well - we used a yellow chromate type paste. I guess its a bit like
>gasket cement on cars, but its never supposed to harden.
>
>The maintenance manuals I have for military aircraft all require the use of
>a faying compound.
>
>I have not been using it on my RV6, although I am now wondering whether I
>would be better off using it?
>
>Regards
>Mike Parkinson
>RV6 HS
Mike,
I would like to put something between the firewall and fuselage skins just
to seal it better from the engine compartment. Tom at Vans said to use
proseal. I mentioned this on the list a while back and their were some who
didn't think it was a good idea, concerns with weakening the joint. If you
know of another product available to us civilian types, please let me know.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Wing Jig and Brackets |
HooRay: My RV6A Empennage is all completed and I'm ready to get started on my
Wing Kit (which is scheduled to be delivered any day now). I plan to build both
wings at the same time. I will installed two more vertical 4x4 posts about 4
foot apart from my existing tail jig. What size angle iron for the brackets are
required? 1/8'' or 1/4" or greater thickness? My empennage jig vertical posts
are 109" apart. Is this distance OK? Any other suggestions for the Wing Jigs
that I should consider. Thanks in advance for you help.
Ron Caldwell RV6A (Tail Completed)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine oil consumption |
>Okay. Here I am possibly mis-remembering something I just read. And maybe
>your term "no oil" meant "the right amount of oil". A recent Kitplanes, if
>I'm not mistaken, had an article about engine oil usage. I got the impression
>the engine is supposed to consume a small amount of oil or it's not being
>lubricated properly. The rings might be too tight and wearing badly.
>
>Can someone more knowledgeable comment?
>
>-Joe
Sorry, Joe. Poor wording on my part. More properly stated: Engine oil
consumption is OK. My O-320 burns 1 quart/16-18 hours.
I read the same article, can't remember where. It said that really low
oil consumption is not something to brag about as it is an indication that
the cylinders are not receiving the proper amount of oil and therfore
cylinder life would be reduced. BTW, the Lycoming manual says the maximum
oil consumption at 75% power for O-320-E&A engines is .37 qts/hour. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Re-Pitch |
>If I remember correctly, Van's is very concerned about the safety of
>repitched props. The original manufacturer did NOT design them to be
>repitched, so the likelihood of cracking goes up.
>
>Please -- talk to an expert before you do this -- someone who ISN'T
>involved in the repitching business. We don't want any props breaking.
>Note that just because one person flew for 300 hours on a repitched
>prop doesn't mean the next person who tries it will be so lucky.
>
>Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Van's opinion is Don't Do It.
>Maybe that's changed.
>
>-Joe
Joe, You are correct when the above applies to factory props designed for
Cherokees, Cesnas, etc. when they have been cut down (below minimum diameter
as specified by the manufacture) and re-pitched. I wouldn't touch one of
these props with a 10 foot pole.
The Sensenich prop designed for the RV can be re-pitched as, I assume most
fixed pitch metal props can be, as long as you stay within the limits set by
the manufacturer. There are limits on the amount of re-pitching that can be
done, even on this prop. Also, there is a minimum diameter on the CM70 prop
which I believe is 68". Sensenich has the appropriate data (stations,
maximum amount of pitche that can be removed or added, etc.) and templates
available and the prop shop had all of this material.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Preserving Engines |
| From: | "Calin Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Regarding engine storage, Richard Chandler inquires:
> > I think I paid about $25 / gallon for the oil so the total price
> > of storage was a little over $100 with the plugs.
>
> Couldn't you do the same thing with something cheaper, like Kerosene?
Engine oil would have been much cheaper too, but considering that I'm
risking the better part of $20K, I decided the storage oil money wasn't
significant. The stuff is designed for this application. I was concerned
that if there were any air pockets, the oil would eventually shed or
run off. If you're absolutely sure no bubbles are in there, anything
that doesn't attack seals would probably be okay, but this stuff
is supposed to really cling! Also, it doesn't wear out and I'm sure
I can drain it and sell it to recoup at least some of my investment
when I'm nearly ready to fly.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Drew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:37:27 -0700
> From: edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com (Randall Henderson)
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Belly Vibrations
> Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> I've had the guys from Van's over a few times looking over my fuselage
> and they were talking about this very issue, and recommended an .040
> aluminum sub-floor over the stiffeners, attached to the stiffeners
> somehow, with insulation underneath.
>
> Mike Seager is doing something similar on his current RV-6. He replaced
> the two outer stiffeners with 3/4" deep by 1 1/2" wide "U" channels,
> (custom made) and intends to pop-rivet the sub-floor directly to those.
> ______
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
>
>Mike,
>
>I would like to put something between the firewall and fuselage skins just
>to seal it better from the engine compartment. Tom at Vans said to use
>proseal. I mentioned this on the list a while back and their were some who
>didn't think it was a good idea, concerns with weakening the joint. If you
>know of another product available to us civilian types, please let me know.
>
>
>Ross Mickey
>rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
Ross,
The warning about indiscriminantly using Proseal on joints was mine and
seems to have led to some confusion for which I am sorry.
What I meant was: When diverging from the plans, especially in the area of
joints in the primary structure, it would be a good idea to consult with
Van's first, because there may be some effect that isn't forseen. I don't
know if a Prosealed joint is stronger or weaker than one without it.
If Tom said the firewall would be an appropriate place to use Proseal, then
go for it.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Porterville CA Fly-In |
This weekend is the Porterville CA Fly-in (June 14-15). Van's will be there
with his RV4 and RV8. He's on the Airshow schedule to perform aerobatics in his
RV4. I will be flying from Salt Lake in my Cherokee to attend the Fly-In. Is
anyone else from the RV-List planning to attend?? I would like to meet up with
you and chatt about our RV building experiences.
Ron Caldwell RV6A
Ready to Start the Wings
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
>Do you think adding some 3/4x3/4 angle in between the existing stiffeners
>would be a good idea? It couldn't weigh that much.
>Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
>
We had this discussion on the List in March. It started with Pter saying he
was installing toolboxes under your knees. I am attaching to the bottom of
this the parts of the thread I saved. You can also look at the archices for
more. I am going to install a piece of angle on each of the two centermost
stiffeners from the top of the spar to about 7" in front of the spar.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
> Peter,
>
> This sounds like a good idea. Could you share some specifics? What is a
> "triangular section"? Between which floor stiffeners? Will it tie into the
> firewalll? Will the top of the box be a hinged lid flush with the floor?
> When you say "bolted to the spar" are you going to use the existing holes
> throuh the spar and use longer bolts?
>
> Much thanks>
Ross,
The idea came from Bill Benedict who said others had done it,
although I got no details from him. I plan to make triangular "ribs" which
have a flange bolted top and bottom to the spar with longer bolts,
with the lower side of the web rivetted to the vertical web of the floor
stiffener to a distance about 7 inches forward of the spar, and with
a flange on the sloping side (hypotenuse) which is about parallel to your
lower leg
when you are seated. The toolbox therefore sits under your
knees/calves in an otherwise dead space. the floor stiffeners are
cantilevered forward which really stiffens up the floor. Access will
be by hinged panel on the sloping face. The "ribs" will have the
biggest possible lightening holes and the stored tools wrapped in
foam.
BTW, Gil Alexander pointed out there are brackets holding the
stiffeners to the spar. Anyone else miss them????
Peter Bennett
> Thanks for the description. I called Bill today to get some more details,
> and he couldn't remember any. I did mention to him that I was interested
> in installing this toolbox to stiffen up the belly pan to try to change the
> resonence frequency. He said he didn't think this would do much as the
> vibration is mainly "under your feet" and stiffening back near the spar may
> not do much.
> I DISAGREE. I STARTED BY TRYING TO GET A SUPPORT INTO THE MIDDLE OF
THE DRUMMING AREA. I DISCUSSED WITH LEO DAVIES A LATERAL STIFFENER
FROM LONGERONS TO CENTRE. HE HAS GONE AHEAD AND DONE THIS AS HE
INDICATED IN A RECENT POST. I CONTINUED EXPERIMENTING AND FOUND THAT
A PIECE OF .063 ANGLE FROM THE TOP OF THE SPAR TO A POINT 7 - 8 INCHES
FORWARD ON THE STIFFENER MAKES ONE HELLUVA DIFFERENCE. NOW THAT I
HAVE FOUND F699, THE PIECE OF ANGLE MAKES A RIGID TRIANGLE WITH SPAR
AND STIFFENER AND THE NEED FOR THE TOOLBOX BULKHEADS OR RIBS IS
ELIMINATED.
> I am building a 6A. The gear leg takes up the space under the outside knee
> which precludes putting a box between the outside longeron and first
> stiffener. That leaves the options of
> 1) building two, 7 inch wide toolboxes between the middle stifeners and the
> one to the ouside, or 2) building one 8 inch wide toolbox between the middel
> two stiffeners or
> 3) building one 22 inch wide toolbox spanning all four floor stiffeners
>
> If you are building a 6, you would also have the options associated with
> using the 7 inch space between the longeron and first floor stiffener.
> Which option are you leaning towards?
> I INTEND TO HAVE TWO BOXES STARTING AT THE LONGERONS AND LEAVING 8"
BETWEEN THEIR INNER ENDS. CHECK THE ROOM NEEDED TO WITHDRAW THE
BATTERY BOX COVER.
> You mentioned "The "ribs" will have the biggest possible lightening holes
> and the stored tools wrapped in foam." Does this refer to the inside ribs
> (if you will have any) or the outside ribs which form the outside of the
box?
> INSIDE RIBS, EXCEPT NOW THEY ARE NOT NEEDED.
> Do you plan on running a 3/4" or 1" angle width wise spanning between the
> longerons or between the stiffeners at the "nose" of the toolbox?
> HAVEN'T THOUGHT THIS THROUGH YET, I'D LIKE TO PUT SOMETHING THERE
TO TAKE PIANO HINGE SO THE WHOLE FRONT CAN OPEN AND BE REMOVED.
> Thanks for your thoughts.
Peter Bennett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: New member of the list (Chatter - humor) |
Oh my God NO!! not a Volvo in the air!!! Having been run over twice by Volvo
drivers (who have a particullarly bad reputation for poor driving here in
Australia1) The thought of a sky full of Volvo drivers fills me with terror!!
:-)
An RV with a crash crumple zone??
Welcome to the list!!
How much did the installation cost?? how many hours has it run?? what sort
of problems have they encountered with the engine?
John Morrissey
>
>I am hoping to build an rv6 in time, in that respect I am wondering if any
>of you have heard anyting about putting a Volvo engine in a rv?
>
>There are these swedish guys who have put the 6cylinder version of a
>960Volvo engine in a Piper Pony, it has been running for some time now
>pulling gliders with a 4 bladed prop and silencer, nice and quiet!
>
>I recently heard that someone has put a Volvo engine in an rv, probably
>the 5 cylinder version of the same engine, but that's all I have heard.
>
>Finn Egil Grimnes
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Baker <mbaker(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: c214 squeezer for sale |
I'll take it, but will not be back in town until the 21st, so you might want
to delay mailing it a few days.
Mickey Baker
Sage Research Corporation
2652 NE 3rd Street
Pompano Beach, FL 33062
Phone 305 785-2354
>
> I have a rebuilt CP 214 for sale standard yoke 1 1/2" with 2 flush sets and
> #40 #30 #20 cupped sets. price $250.00 COD. The last ones I had for sale
> went in two days. If you need one this is a terrific deal. First email gets
> it please contact me at HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
> harry Paine
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Belly Vibrations |
> *** SNIP ***
>My intention is to use 3/4" angle screw/nut-plated or riveted to the
>existing channel, and use nut plates/screws to screw the subfloor to
>those pieces.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
Randall:
I,ve done this in my aircrarft, including the installation of 1/2" closed
cell foam rubber between the top floor skin and the original belly skin. I
also have a rug on top.
The noise level is down conserably. Take-off and cruise cockpit noise
levels are no worst than most other Piper or Cessna models. I have the Tolle
exhaust system with the turned down ends and that helps. I did measure the
noise levels at about 95 dB at one time, but that was way back when I was
doing the 40 hr test period.
I still have a few belly rivets that are smoking and need to be fixed
soon. Except for the occational roll, I don't do aerobatics, so the majority
of the stresses are from normal flying. The additional cockpit top floor and
insulation may have kept this to a minimum.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(realy like the electric flaps!)
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
I used some high-temp RTV gasket material I got at an auto parts store
to seal around the firewall recess and edges. But after riveting, I
found the stuff came off pretty easily. Apparently what I had wasn't
quite the same as the "high-temp RTV" that most people use, which seems
to stick better. I scraped off as much as I could around the joints and
out of the seams, then smeared pro-seal all in there best I could.
Now I wish I had just gone with something I KNOW will stick in the first
place. Proseal is pretty heat resistant anyway as I recall, even though
it's not advertised as "high-temp". And it's mainly there to keep exhaust
gasses out of the cockpit, not to protect you from a real fire.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Homebuilt Marker Beacon/Smoke System |
A couple people had asked for infor on the following, and I just got
around to digging last night...
Homebuilt Marker Beacon - Sept. '93 KITPLANES pg.46
For the Smoke System, January '96 Kitplanes had an article on the "Dawn
Patrol" (Dick Starks), which highlighted the set-up they installed.
Hope this helps.
Eric
Barnes_Eric(at)tandem.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I'm curious as to how effective it is to post things about
political issues such as the recent "AOPA Alert" regarding
the Aviation Trust fund and User Fees. If you saw my posting,
and wrote to your senator as a result, could you drop me
a _private_ e-mail please?
Thanks.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMusgrave(at)swri.edu |
charset=US-ASCII
lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com Wrote:
| A couple of us RV-8 builders are to the point where we need to install
| elastic grommets in the VS and HS ribs to provide for lighting,
| communication and navigation antenna and wires. We've found AN931
| Elastic Grommets for sale on page 102 of the most recent AS catalog.
| Can anyone give advice as to which grommets we need and how many?
I just received short form catalog 26 from micro plastics, Flippin, AR
72634 (501) 453-2261. They make every kind and size of grommet for this
application. You have to buy a jillion, but they only cost pennies
apiece. Check it out!
Dave Musgrave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | FW: VS Tip Attach |
'Listers -- due to some unfortunate trimming errors, I have wound up with a VS
skin that is a little short on the top. More precisely, I have wound up with
the skin extending past the tip rib by about 1/4 to 5/16", instead of the
designated 1/2". In thinking about this for a while, I've come up with a couple
of ideas.
1) The rivets attaching the VS tip are shown a 1/4" back from the top of the VS.
I can still do that with mine, although I'll end up nicking the edge of the
flange of the tip rib. Also, I'll have to modify the flange a little on the tip
itself.
2) I can attach a nut plate behind each of the two tooling holes in the tip rib,
and again, with a few minor changes to the tip itself, screw the tip on with two
bolts into these nutplates. I'll have to make sure that they can seal though,
so that they don't permit water to enter the VS.
Of the two, I'm leaning toward the latter. Looks like I'm going to want to get
that tip off, anyway, as there may well be antennae/strobe stuff in there that
I
want to get at.
Any thoughts on the above, or the situation in general, I would most appreciate!
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
"Skinning VS"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrabstonD(at)aol.com |
Most of you have probably been here, but for you guys just starting your
wings, this may be worth while. I prepared the 1/8th and 1/4 inch flange
strips according to instructions. Then I primed all those parts with epoxy
primer--per instructions. Then I tried to assemble the parts according to
instructions. When I put the flange strips together and tried to "S-L-I-D-E"
those 3/8, 1/4, and 3/16 inch bolts into the holes to align everything I
discovered that the bolts would not fit. After a lot of reading and
studying, I concluded that the first 18 holes, starting with the first 1/4
inch bold, are underdrilled and tapped for a "close tollerance fit." When I
primed the spar strips, I got primer in the holes and the primer made the
holes too small for the bolds to fit. To solve the problem I have spent
hours using 400 grit sand paper wrapped around approperatly sized round
objects to get the primer out without enlarging the holes. If I had it to do
other, I would roll up pieces of paper and stick them in the holes before I
started priming. Maybe someone has a better solution--or am I the only one
that had this problem. By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
install the wings. Anyone know about that?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New member of the list (Chatter - humor) |
> An RV with a crash crumple zone??
As an aside, on rec.motorcycles Volvo drivers have a similar rep. But one of
the more interesting comments I've read about crumple zones was from a guy who
got broadsided on his old Range Rover. It was to the effect that Range Rover
engineers had found the perfect location for crumple zones - on the other
guy's car. The accident totalled the other guy, but an hour with a hammer
could pound out the dents in the Rover.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Wing Spars |
>objects to get the primer out without enlarging the holes. If I had it to do
>other, I would roll up pieces of paper and stick them in the holes before I
>started priming. Maybe someone has a better solution--or am I the only one
>that had this problem. By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
>paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
>install the wings. Anyone know about that?
Considering that the holes drilled for the close tolerance bolts provide a
tight enough fit to rub some cad plating off of the bolts, I wouldn't think
that primer would stay on the bolts when inserted. I used Boeshield T-9
corrosion protectant (ACS) on my close tolerance bolts as it was recommended
by a mechanic I have high regard for, however, it probably didn't stick to
the bolt any better than the primer. It made me feel better, anyway. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Compuserve Members... |
[RV-Listers: Below is a message I just emailed to Compuserve regarding
their Internet emailer. I'm sure it'll hit their bit bucket before anyone
there cares, but maybe something will be done. If you are a subscriber to
Compuserve, please send them a message similar to mine asking that they
modify their mailer. I sent my message to: "POSTMASTER(at)CompuServe.COM"
and "support(at)compuserve.com" - Matt]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compuserve Sys Admins:
I run an Internet Email List with over 500 subscribers. Traffic on this list
is over 30 messages per day. Below is a copy of one of the messages along
with a message from the Compuserve Mailer. Note that this error message went
to *ALL* 500 members of the List and was appened to the 21Mb archive file.
People, *NO BODY* on the List cares that this person's mail box is full, and
the huge archive file *really* doesn't need this crap making it that much
larger.
There a number of things to note here:
1) The "From " (note the lack of a ':') line is "owner-rv-list@...".
Traditional mailers are suppose to use this address to send errors
to, not the "From:" line.
2) Note the "Errors-To:" line address. Why are you sending errors
back to the 'from' address when there is an Errors-To line???
3) Note the "Precedence: bulk" line. If the precedence is "bulk"
people, it means that its from an email list or something of similar
nature and you *NEVER* send informational errors back.
With 500 people on the List, I get a *LOT* of pissed-off-email when one
of your addresses fills everyones email box with these 'mail box full'
messages.
Please fix your mailer. The Internet is too crowed and clogged already.
Please don't dog it down more with these useless and unnecessary messages.
Please respond.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
dralle(at)matronics.com
>--------------
>Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:
>
>Mailbox 70224.624 is currently full.
>Please resend your message at a later time.
>
>--- Returned message ---
>
>From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp9.netcom.com [163.179.3.9]) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com
(8.6.10/5.950515)
>Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:33:03 -0700
>From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
>Message-Id: <199606122333.QAA03829(at)amelia.edt.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Faying compound
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Md5: bE0ybaBu8+BCbYiwUW+y9g==
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>I used some high-temp RTV gasket material I got at an auto parts store
>to seal around the firewall recess and edges. But after riveting, I
>found the stuff came off pretty easily. Apparently what I had wasn't
>quite the same as the "high-temp RTV" that most people use, which seems
>to stick better. I scraped off as much as I could around the joints and
>out of the seams, then smeared pro-seal all in there best I could.
>
>Now I wish I had just gone with something I KNOW will stick in the first
>place. Proseal is pretty heat resistant anyway as I recall, even though
>it's not advertised as "high-temp". And it's mainly there to keep exhaust
>gasses out of the cockpit, not to protect you from a real fire.
>
>Randall
>
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94550
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | A suggestion for the elevators |
I was just fitting my elevators to my HS so that I could weigh the amount of
load I needed in the counterbalance. (I didn't have the *slightest* intention
of setting up the tail feathers on the desk, setting a chair in front facing
away, and making vroom-vroom, rat-a-tat-tat noises! No, not me!)
I discovered a slight fitting problem that I want to warn people about so
they don't have this problem. As you can figure out, the counterbalance
arms will bind if they are angled into the HS at all. Well, one of mine is
pretty good, but the other one is too tight. Sigh. The only way I can fix
it now is to remove some material, or build it again. (I'm going to remove
the material).
A method to avoid this problem -- after you've drilled the elevator skin to
the skeleton, but before you have drilled the holes into the tip ribs, clamp
the tip ribs and skin with cleco side clamps, take it all out of the jig,
and fit it to the HS. You'll probably find that the skins are in the way a
little bit, as you haven't formed the leading edge bend yet, but should be
able to find some method of making sure everything matches.
I was extremely careful to get things square. Obviously not *quite* careful
enough. You only have to be off a degree or so to have a problem.
Another suggestion -- when you are making your elevator skeleton, don't be
too tight when locating the holes for the rod ends. The tips of the elevators
must extend past the tips of the HS, but everything just has to be close at
the middle. Don't be *too* sloppy, of course, but I've got about a 16th on
the good end, and I think I would be happier with twice that.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel primer solenoid |
A while back someone mentioned an electric fuel primer solenoid. Can someone
give me a contact to obtain one of these?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy (hooking up engine guts)
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Faying compound |
On Wed, 12 Jun 1996, Phil Arter wrote:
> The warning about indiscriminantly using Proseal on joints was mine and
> seems to have led to some confusion for which I am sorry.
>
> What I meant was: When diverging from the plans, especially in the area of
> joints in the primary structure, it would be a good idea to consult with
> Van's first, because there may be some effect that isn't forseen. I don't
> know if a Prosealed joint is stronger or weaker than one without it.
>
> If Tom said the firewall would be an appropriate place to use Proseal, then
> go for it.
Bear in mind that you don't have to put it on the faying surfaces. I
deliberatly didn't and just plan to run a bead of it to seal the joints
after they are riveted. Then you have a sealed firewall and no worries.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Wing Spars |
On Wed, 12 Jun 1996 BrabstonD(at)aol.com wrote:
> holes too small for the bolds to fit. To solve the problem I have spent
> hours using 400 grit sand paper wrapped around approperatly sized round
> objects to get the primer out without enlarging the holes. If I had it to do
> other, I would roll up pieces of paper and stick them in the holes before I
> started priming. Maybe someone has a better solution--or am I the only one
> that had this problem. By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
> paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
> install the wings. Anyone know about that?
I had the same problem and had to ream out the holes after the spar was
assembled. The rolled up paper idea is a really good one. I learned my
lesson. On most other parts, getting primer in the holes is no big deal
because you can just run a drill bit through them later, but with
machined or close tolerence holes, an ounce of prevention is worth a
pound of cure! I agree with the "install bolts wet with primer" idea. I
think this is standard practice, so I do it. But, I don't use epoxy
primer for this, although I use it everywhere else. I just use zinc
chromate out of a can. I think with epoxy, you'd have a heck of a time
ever getting the bolts out again.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
> > The argument is that gascolators is 1930's tractor technology. How many do
> > you see on cars these days? There is debate in this neck of the forest
> > whether we need them (appologies to our Canadian brethren as they are
> > required). I know some who have put the inline glass filters under the
So it's 1930s technology. So what? Is there a better, more modern way of
removing water from your fuel? If so what is it? If not, what the heck
is wrong with 1930s technology?
Aluminum monococque airframe design (like RVs use) is also 1930s
technology. So what? If it works, it works.
Curt Reimer
Disgruntled Canadian Who Has to Use a Gascolator Anyway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy <jbenedic(at)hood.uofport.edu> |
| Subject: | Merced/Bakersfield RV Report |
Just in case anybody wanted to know, there were quite a few RV's at the
Merced Fly-In last weekend. My best count was 43, although a few more
could have slipped by. I only know of one who was an rv-lister though.
At Bakersfield, there were RV's everywhere, on the ground and in the
air. Unfortunately, it was too HOT to actually go out and count the
number of airplanes, but a rough glance showed between 40 and 50.
And if you really want to know, at Merced:
RV-3: 2
RV-4: 20
RV-6: 18
RV-6A: 2
RV-8: 1
And if you really, really want to know, at Merced:
RV-3 RV-4 RV-6 RV-6A RV-8
------ ------ ------ ------ ------
N13KE N32KL N91CK N567RV N118RV
unknown N320TD N4246 N164RS
N444ED N181R
N320A N826B
N426RC N66RV
N77GR N906GS
N9180T N974JS
N22954 N14JA
N835B N146RV
no-N # N946DP
N186RR N695LS
N4WJ N64DR
[HR]N67CW N595BP
N504JT N1KJ
N44TK N6HJ
[HR]N280HR N164CE
N22KP N419D
N98GB N49ZZ
N344H
N888TH
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| name://Jeremy Benedict | PP-ASEL (1994) [R/E: TD] |
| email://jbenedic(at)uofport.edu | Logged:C-150,RV-4,-6,-6A,-6B,-6T|
| http://www.uofport.edu/~jbenedic | TT: 188.2 hrs TT-RV: 95.2 hrs |
| voice://503.240.1062 | |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A suggestion for the elevators |
Joe Larson wrote:
> *snip*
>
> I discovered a slight fitting problem that I want to warn people about so
> they don't have this problem. As you can figure out, the counterbalance
> arms will bind if they are angled into the HS at all. Well, one of mine is
> pretty good, but the other one is too tight. Sigh. The only way I can fix
> it now is to remove some material, or build it again. (I'm going to remove
> the material).
>
> A method to avoid this problem -- after you've drilled the elevator skin to
> the skeleton, but before you have drilled the holes into the tip ribs, clamp
> the tip ribs and skin with cleco side clamps, take it all out of the jig,
> and fit it to the HS. You'll probably find that the skins are in the way a
> little bit, as you haven't formed the leading edge bend yet, but should be
> able to find some method of making sure everything matches.
>
> I was extremely careful to get things square. Obviously not *quite* careful
> enough. You only have to be off a degree or so to have a problem.
>
> Another suggestion -- when you are making your elevator skeleton, don't be
> too tight when locating the holes for the rod ends. The tips of the elevators
> must extend past the tips of the HS, but everything just has to be close at
> the middle. Don't be *too* sloppy, of course, but I've got about a 16th on
> the good end, and I think I would be happier with twice that.
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
> Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
> 6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
> Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
Along the same line as Joe's post, when I flew to Merced this last
Weekend I stopped at Willows, CA for fuel and there was a Piper
PA-28 fueling up, when he taxied out to take off he could not move the elevator
because
the heat had expanded his elevators to the point that
they were binding on the HS so he taxied back in and was working the
surfaces over with a file to get clearence, something to think about
when setting your elevator to HS clearence on the outboard ends. I
think 1/8 to 1/4" is not to much. I had not seen this before and found it
interesting. Temp on the ramp was about 100 degrees.
Jerry Springer RV-6 first flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix3.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: c214 squeezer for sale |
>I'll take it, but will not be back in town until the 21st, so you might want
>to delay mailing it a few days.
>
>Mickey Baker
>Sage Research Corporation
>2652 NE 3rd Street
>Pompano Beach, FL 33062
>
>Phone 305 785-2354
>
>
>Mickey sorry you were caller # 7 However I might have some more in the
future and if you would still be interested in the next couple of months let
me know.
Thanks Harry Paine
>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Harry
Would you send me your snail-mail address?
Rgds
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel primer solenoid |
>A while back someone mentioned an electric fuel primer solenoid. Can someone
>give me a contact to obtain one of these?
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (hooking up engine guts)
Ed, Aircraft Spruce, page 135, 95-96 catalog, $35.50. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Fuel primer solenoid |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: INTERNET:EBundy2620(at)aol.com\
RE: RV-List: Fuel primer solenoid
A while back someone mentioned an electric fuel primer solenoid. Can someone
give me a contact to obtain one of these?
Ed, I seem to recall that Aircraft Spruce has one in their latest catalog.
I loaned mine out so I can't look for you right now. If you have trouble
finding it, let me know.
By the way, I got this sad looking fragment of an envelope back in the mail
yesterday with your mailing lable on it. Post Office appologized and offered
to look for the rest of the package if I would just fill out five forms in
triplicate and . . . . . well . . . it wasn't that bad. The upshot is that
I think some mail sorting machine ate you book. Glad we got the envelope
back or we'd never know about until you hollered . . . a nice new one is in
today's mail.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Jig and Brackets |
You wrote:
>What size angle iron for the brackets are required? 1/8'' or 1/4" or greater
>thickness? My empennage jig vertical posts are 109" apart. Is this
>distance OK? Any other suggestions for the Wing Jigs that I should
>consider. Thanks in advance for you help.
You have plenty of time before you need the wing jig; the spars will be built
off of it. After pulling my spars out of the box, I had a good idea of the
weight and added a 'jigger factor' for the rest of the wing structure. I
then went to the hardware store and got some of the steel angle for shelving
(the kind with holes already drilled; looks kinda like erector set beams).
For the spar supports, I cut them long enough to extend past both sides of
the jig - I store the long stock on the back side. The rear spar supports
are mostly for positioning the rear spar; they do not have to bear much
weight. But I used the same material anyway because it was cheap enough. I
also used it to attach the threaded rod that maintains tip rib alignment. A
six foot length was sufficient for my single jig as described.
109" is fine - your main spar will fit comfortably on that distance. The
rear spar will not reach, but a piece of flat stock bridges the gap just fine
(remember, the rear spar is not supported, just positioned). I made one
mistake: I put the spar supports on the face of the posts farthest from each
other. The spars fit Ok, but the posts were in the way for drilling the skin
to the tip rib, so I had to disassemble the structure and move the supports
to the inside faces of the posts. Now I can reach the entire surface of the
wing facing the jig. By the way, I also had to remove the crosspost as it
interfered with access to the wing surface. I was afraid that this would
weaken the lateral stability of my free-standing jig. My solution was to
clamp the main spar in place before removing the crosspost. The main spar
acts as a replacement crosspost and my jig has not moved at all. For you
guys with floor to ceiling posts, this should not even be a problem. Hope
all of this helps you.
PatK - RV-6A - Left tank under construction (how I HATE pre-punched skins!!)
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
The empennage kit is small enough to be shipped UPS (pronounced OOPS!), but
the remainder of the kits are too large and have to be shipped by common
carrier. Also, (don't know if this is the current practice), my empennage
arrived in cardboard(!) boxes. Sure could have used the wood crating to make
jigs and such.
Pertaining to the thread about trimming the stab skins, I advise trimming the
root end (if necessary; mine overhangs about 1/8" - I don't think the weight
savings is worth the effort to trim it), as trimming later you will find the
spars interfering with your work. At the tips, leave it until later. I
trimmed the aft portion when I fitted the elevators; trimming by measurement
would not have worked because of small variences in the location of the
elevator counterweights. I am saving the forward portion until I am ready to
do the tips; a rough fitting has already shown me that I may need to vary
from the measured line by about 1/16" at one end. (Up until this point, I
thought I was being exceptionally precise. Small errors add up.)
PatK - RV-6A - Still banging on those wing spars...
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
You wrote:
>Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the bend-over-the-tabs
>method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone pretty much agreed
>that the best method is to make a couple of little ribs?
I bent the tabs over; it worked just fine. IMHO, it's six of one or a half
dozen of the other. I think both methods come out looking Ok, though I
personally thought it was easier to do the tabs than try to design and
fabricate riblets and rivet them in such close quarters. Others think I did
it the hard way - it just goes to show you. :-)
PatK - RV-6A - LE Skin fitting to the left wing
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel primer solenoid |
>A while back someone mentioned an electric fuel primer solenoid. Can someone
>give me a contact to obtain one of these?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (hooking up engine guts)
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
Ed,
I just ordered mine from Aircraft Spruce. It's in the fuel section. I
think it's on the same page as the gascolators, let's not get THAT
discussion started again :). Cost was about $35-$40 for the valve. I can't
comment on it because it hasn't been received yet.
-Scott N506RV engine and prop are hung :)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kingm(at)whidbey.net (Monte King) |
| Subject: | Lubbock Builders? |
My friend, Mark Myres, who is not on this list will be flying his beautiful
new RV-6 to Lubbock to visit family next week. I offerred to see if I could
round up anyone from the list interested in looking at his plane and
possibly anyone who might have some hanger space to offer at the airport.
He'll be arriving at Lubbock June 20 and leaving June 22. E-mail me
directly if you're interested. Thanks.
Monte King
kingm(at)whidbey.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Wing Spars |
>
>Most of you have probably been here, but for you guys just starting your
>wings, this may be worth while. I prepared the 1/8th and 1/4 inch flange
>strips according to instructions. Then I primed all those parts with epoxy
>primer--per instructions. Then I tried to assemble the parts according to
>instructions. When I put the flange strips together and tried to "S-L-I-D-E"
>those 3/8, 1/4, and 3/16 inch bolts into the holes to align everything I
>discovered that the bolts would not fit. After a lot of reading and
>studying, I concluded that the first 18 holes, starting with the first 1/4
>inch bold, are underdrilled and tapped for a "close tollerance fit." When I
>primed the spar strips, I got primer in the holes and the primer made the
>holes too small for the bolds to fit. To solve the problem I have spent
>hours using 400 grit sand paper wrapped around approperatly sized round
>objects to get the primer out without enlarging the holes. If I had it to do
>other, I would roll up pieces of paper and stick them in the holes before I
>started priming. Maybe someone has a better solution--or am I the only one
>that had this problem. By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
>paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
>install the wings. Anyone know about that?
>
BrabstonD (don't know your real name)
Try a reamer. It is called for in the RV-3 manual. A reamer will
cut a round hole of the correct diameter. The idea is to first drill the
hole to be about 1/64" undersize and then ream. I did it on my spars and
they came out great. The bolts would slide in like pistons in a cylinder.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: FW: VS Tip Attach |
>'Listers -- due to some unfortunate trimming errors, I have wound up with a VS
>skin that is a little short on the top. More precisely, I have wound up with
>the skin extending past the tip rib by about 1/4 to 5/16", instead of the
>designated 1/2". In thinking about this for a while, I've come up with a
couple
>of ideas.
>
Terry, Glue it on with proseal. You have to heat it and expand it a bit so
it is a tight fit in the top of the VS. I masked the top of the VS and a
line about 1/8 inch up the tip from the line the top of the VS would make
and then spread proseal on the fiberglass and pressed it in place. I then
took a popsical stick and make a nice neat bead of proseal at the joint,
using the excess that squeezed out.
Looks good, no rivits, the proseal takes paint ok. I just hope I never have
to take it off
Hope this helps
Joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
Nobody on their death bed has ever been heard to say "Geeze,I wish I'd spent
more time at work"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
Greg, please enlighten me. What is a 'faying compound'? I learned a lot
of
things I had not known when building the plane, but this is something that
got completely by me. Have I left something out that I should have put in?
Are my joints going to swell and become arthritic?:<)
John D
I had not questioned this issue before, but in my 9 years in the airforce
we were always required to use faying compound between riveted joints. What
is it? well - we used a yellow chromate type paste. I guess its a bit like
gasket cement on cars, but its never supposed to harden. The maintenance
manuals I have for military aircraft all require the use of a faying
compound. I have not been using it on my RV6, although I am now wondering
whether I would be better off using it?
Mike Parkinson
I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired, rebuilt
aircraft by all major aircraft companies. All majors require that most
joints be fay sealed with a product
similiar to pro seal only better and easier to use... it just costs 3 - 4x
more.
later Harry Paine
John as I understand it, a faying compound is sorta like a sealer. When
applied to lap joints, plates and stuff it seals out moisture. No moisture
in the joint means no electrolyte which equals no corrosion. Hey, Harry
Paine help me out here! Please? There are other corrosion proofing products
that can be used to displace moisture after assembly i.e. CorrosionX,
ACF50. I'm looking on the list for a faying compound to carry around in my
tool box. My local supplier said the chromatic paste is no longer available
and he did not have a replacement. I could not find anything listed in
Wick's or Aircraft Spruce's catalogs. Any Ideas out there?
Greg Bordelon
Houston Texas
greg(at)brokersys.com
not worked on RV in a week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | FW: VS Tip Attach |
Terry, I think in this case I'd just glue the tip on and glass it in. I'm
not a fan of glass stuff to aluminum but I think in this case that would be
the ideal fix. Just drill a couple of holes to cleco the thing together
while the glue cures.You could also just glue a block of foam to the VS and
make a new glassed in tip.....this may be redundant as you already have a
tip. OR you could drill our the tip rivets and re-rivet back together with
a new strip flange on the inside of rib flange. This new flange would
extend past your skin and the fiberglass tip would slip over it. Anyhow,
I'm going to put antenna/strobe/lights and stuff in the tips. I really
don't think your going to like that strobe in the VS tip. I'd glass it in!
Greg Bordelon
Houston Texas
greg(at)brokersys.com
----------
From:
SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com[SMTP:SceptreCal.C
CMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 1996 6:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: FW: VS Tip Attach
'Listers -- due to some unfortunate trimming errors, I have wound up with a
VS
skin that is a little short on the top. More precisely, I have wound up
with
the skin extending past the tip rib by about 1/4 to 5/16", instead of the
designated 1/2". In thinking about this for a while, I've come up with a
couple
of ideas.
1) The rivets attaching the VS tip are shown a 1/4" back from the top of
the VS.
I can still do that with mine, although I'll end up nicking the edge of
the
flange of the tip rib. Also, I'll have to modify the flange a little on
the tip
itself.
2) I can attach a nut plate behind each of the two tooling holes in the tip
rib,
and again, with a few minor changes to the tip itself, screw the tip on
with two
bolts into these nutplates. I'll have to make sure that they can seal
though,
so that they don't permit water to enter the VS.
Of the two, I'm leaning toward the latter. Looks like I'm going to want to
get
that tip off, anyway, as there may well be antennae/strobe stuff in there
that I
want to get at.
Any thoughts on the above, or the situation in general, I would most
appreciate!
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
"Skinning VS"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
Saved the file. Thanks for the README help.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu (Jack Wigmore) |
| Subject: | rv6 wing and empenage |
Sorry if this is posted for a second tome ..I believe the first one was
lost in cyber space. Please spread the word. HELP!
SAVE TIME AND MONEY? Buy my completed RV6/6A empenage kit (excellent) and
untouched wing kit ( not pre-punched) for $4000 USD / offer. Located in
Eugene Oregon.
Contact J. Wigmore (541) 935-2639
or wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | FW: VS Tip Attach |
Are you saying that all the fiberglass tips can be glued right to the
aluminum? Will it be as permanent as riveting? I would love not to have to
drill, countersink, reinforce and pop rivet fiberglass.
Is this something others have tried/found successful? I'd hate to see one
of these tips come loose during flight as it could jam the control surface
-Mike
----------
From: mi.net!joehine(at)matronics.com[SMTP:mi.net!joehine(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 1996 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: FW: VS Tip Attach
>'Listers -- due to some unfortunate trimming errors, I have wound up with a
VS
>skin that is a little short on the top. More precisely, I have wound up
with
>the skin extending past the tip rib by about 1/4 to 5/16", instead of the
>designated 1/2". In thinking about this for a while, I've come up with a
couple
>of ideas.
>
Terry, Glue it on with proseal. You have to heat it and expand it a bit so
it is a tight fit in the top of the VS. I masked the top of the VS and a
line about 1/8 inch up the tip from the line the top of the VS would make
and then spread proseal on the fiberglass and pressed it in place. I then
took a popsical stick and make a nice neat bead of proseal at the joint,
using the excess that squeezed out.
Looks good, no rivits, the proseal takes paint ok. I just hope I never have
to take it off
Hope this helps
Joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
Nobody on their death bed has ever been heard to say "Geeze,I wish I'd spent
more time at work"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: A suggestion for the elevators |
You wrote:
>
>I was just fitting my elevators to my HS so that I could weigh the
amount of
>load I needed in the counterbalance. (I didn't have the *slightest*
intention
>of setting up the tail feathers on the desk, setting a chair in front
facing
>away, and making vroom-vroom, rat-a-tat-tat noises! No, not me!)
>
>I discovered a slight fitting problem that I want to warn people about
so
>they don't have this problem. As you can figure out, the
counterbalance
>arms will bind if they are angled into the HS at all. Well, one of
mine is
>pretty good, but the other one is too tight. Sigh. The only way I
can fix
>it now is to remove some material, or build it again. (I'm going to
remove
>the material).
>
>A method to avoid this problem -- after you've drilled the elevator
skin to
>the skeleton, but before you have drilled the holes into the tip ribs,
clamp
>the tip ribs and skin with cleco side clamps, take it all out of the
jig,
>and fit it to the HS. You'll probably find that the skins are in the
way a
>little bit, as you haven't formed the leading edge bend yet, but
should be
>able to find some method of making sure everything matches.
>
>I was extremely careful to get things square. Obviously not *quite*
careful
>enough. You only have to be off a degree or so to have a problem.
>
>Another suggestion -- when you are making your elevator skeleton,
don't be
>too tight when locating the holes for the rod ends. The tips of the
elevators
>must extend past the tips of the HS, but everything just has to be
close at
>the middle. Don't be *too* sloppy, of course, but I've got about a
16th on
>the good end, and I think I would be happier with twice that.
>
>-Joe
Joe,
The angle can be controlled by the rod end bearing lengths to some
degree, but this assumes you have not drilled the contol horns yet.
The one rule that I have noted in building the empennage is "DON'T TRIM
ANY ALUMINUM UNTIL YOU HAVE TO". A previous post concerning the VS skin
overhang being too narrow for the fiberglass cap attach reinforces this
rule.
Hope you can solve this one without much pain.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A suggestion for the elevators |
>I discovered a slight fitting problem that I want to warn people about so
>they don't have this problem. As you can figure out, the counterbalance
>arms will bind if they are angled into the HS at all. Well, one of mine is
>pretty good, but the other one is too tight. Sigh. The only way I can fix
>it now is to remove some material, or build it again. (I'm going to remove
>the material).
How about this:
There are 4 rivets holding the counterbalance arm at the angle it is. Drill
out these rivets, move the arm to where it should be, and re-rivet the assy.
You may want to use the NAS1097 rivets where applicable, and simply ream the
hole that has the pop rivet in it.
I wouldn't re-build the parts when the "fix" is so easy...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel primer solenoid |
>A while back someone mentioned an electric fuel primer solenoid. Can someone
>give me a contact to obtain one of these?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy (hooking up engine guts)
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
Sure, I hate to plug ACS but they sell the primer solenoid, part number
05-29823 (12 Volt) for $35.50. Page 135 in the '95/'96 catalog.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
| Subject: | Wingtip lighting |
After hearing of inconveniences with mounting the tail light, I'm
considering returning my rudder bottom for the one without the light hole.
However, looking at the whelen wingtip lighting system with the 3 lights on
each tip, it doesn't look like you get visible white light directly behind
the centerline of the airplane. Has everyone who has applied for night
certification using this system gotten it? I'd hate to go to the hassle and
expense of installing it and then have the inspecto tell me it wasn't adequate.
Stuart Fraley
RV-6 Tail, done except weights and tips
Wings coming July
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Lubbock Builders? |
>My friend, Mark Myres, who is not on this list will be flying his beautiful
>new RV-6 to Lubbock to visit family next week. I offerred to see if I could
>round up anyone from the list interested in looking at his plane and
>possibly anyone who might have some hanger space to offer at the airport.
>He'll be arriving at Lubbock June 20 and leaving June 22. E-mail me
>directly if you're interested. Thanks.
>
>Monte King
>kingm(at)whidbey.net
>
>
>
I want to add a little detail to this posting. Mark has built a beautiful
RV-6 and deserves to win Grand Champion at any airshow he attends. He's
added an extra fuel (around 8 to 10 gallons) behind the instrument panel,
installed custom machined control levers, installed an original design
canapy latch system and much more. The workmanship is unquestionably the
best I've seen.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Wing Spars |
I have read that, plus I read somewhere about something, I think, is LDS #2
or #3. It was available from the FBO here. If I remember correctly, Vans
recommended it as well. It is a spray on type that is made for the purpose
of lubricating and protecting such. I think one of it's advantages is that
it stays flexible rather than becoming brittle. I used it when I put my
bolts in for the final time. The first time I put the bolts in, they were
extremely hard to drive. In one AF manual, It described the size hammer
that it would take to 'fit' a close tolerant bolt in it's hole--pretty big
and lots of blows. The second time, it was somewhat easier.
John D
By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
>paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
>install the wings. Anyone know about that?
>
>
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too Fay - ing |
I think with epoxy primers, the use of any chromate paste (faying compound)
between seams is not required. The only place would be where fluids might
leak through, for example the firewall (solvents when you wash the engine)
or canopy (water). I used some proseal on the firewall.
The silicon based products should be good to calk seams (assuming they
are primed as most of these give off aceatic (?sp) acid.
Herman
>
> Greg, please enlighten me. What is a 'faying compound'? I learned a lot
> of
> things I had not known when building the plane, but this is something that
> got completely by me. Have I left something out that I should have put in?
> Are my joints going to swell and become arthritic?:<)
> John D
>
>
> I had not questioned this issue before, but in my 9 years in the airforce
> we were always required to use faying compound between riveted joints. What
> is it? well - we used a yellow chromate type paste. I guess its a bit like
> gasket cement on cars, but its never supposed to harden. The maintenance
> manuals I have for military aircraft all require the use of a faying
> compound. I have not been using it on my RV6, although I am now wondering
> whether I would be better off using it?
> Mike Parkinson
>
>
> I've been in aircraft 25 years and have either built, repaired, rebuilt
> aircraft by all major aircraft companies. All majors require that most
> joints be fay sealed with a product
> similiar to pro seal only better and easier to use... it just costs 3 - 4x
> more.
> later Harry Paine
>
>
> John as I understand it, a faying compound is sorta like a sealer. When
> applied to lap joints, plates and stuff it seals out moisture. No moisture
> in the joint means no electrolyte which equals no corrosion. Hey, Harry
> Paine help me out here! Please? There are other corrosion proofing products
> that can be used to displace moisture after assembly i.e. CorrosionX,
> ACF50. I'm looking on the list for a faying compound to carry around in my
> tool box. My local supplier said the chromatic paste is no longer available
> and he did not have a replacement. I could not find anything listed in
> Wick's or Aircraft Spruce's catalogs. Any Ideas out there?
>
> Greg Bordelon
> Houston Texas
> greg(at)brokersys.com
> not worked on RV in a week
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au |
| Subject: | Sender: owner-rv-list |
My name is Rob McAnally, a mid career Air Traffic Controller from Melbourne
Australia who needed something to do in his spare time. Then I commenced
building my RV-6 and spare time is no longer a problem.
I have completed the Empennage kit and both my wings are approaching final
skinning.
There are a group of four builders of RV-6/6A kits in my vicinity who get
together on a regular basis to see if we are all making the same mistakes
and all recovering from them in satisfactory (and legal) ways. Australia has
no Experimental Catagory as yet so we build under normal Civil Aviation regs.
One of my group did me a big favour and introduced me to the Internet so now
I may just have to retire to get time to keep up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Pre-Punched
Patrick Kelly, why do you hate pre-punched skins?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
My computer crashed and I lost some addresses. I need Frank Justice,
Orndorf, Vans, Hal Downes. Excuse the personal request.
Howard Kidwell
Howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
There are two (2) RV6/6A jigs available in Sydney for any Australian
builders interested. Both beautifully built examples of the type.
Call me on (02) 99068975 AH if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
I just received my order from Spruce West - 8 feet of 3/16" x 1.25" ALU
bar. I had put on my order that I wanted 2 peices of 4'. However,
they shipped it as 8' adding 2 pounds of unnessesary packaging weight
PLUS oversize charges from UPS - total shipping charges $18 on a $19
order! (I'm not sure what good what Spruce East is - they didn't have
it in stock so it was shipped from CA to here in FL.)
Seems my idea of building an airplane at low cost is going down the
drain.
Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is to put this kind of order on
two lines on the order form (2 identical lines, 4' on each line) --
thought this might be useful to some of you.
Finn (on horz stab, and grumpy)
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Since no-one else mentioned it -
Why not put the bolts in the freezer overnight and maybe even take a
heater to the spars?
Of cause it won't handle an excessive mismatch in diameter, but could
make extensive hammering unneccessary.
Finn (finished cutting the taper in horz stab spar flanges with
hacksaw - better than going to gym for workout!)
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | Re: A suggestion for the elevators |
>I discovered a slight fitting problem that I want to warn people about so
>they don't have this problem. As you can figure out, the counterbalance
>arms will bind if they are angled into the HS at all. Well, one of mine is
>pretty good, but the other one is too tight. Sigh. The only way I can fix
>it now is to remove some material, or build it again. (I'm going to remove
>the material).
I had this same problem with the right elevator. I had already drilled the
skeleton to the skin, but had not yet riveted them. Upon a quick and final
check, I found that I had too much "toe-in" to be assured of enough
clearance between the outer HS rib and the elevator arm. &%^#! I ended
up redrilling the angling out the rib and redrilling the skin, with the new
rivet holes offset along the rib to provide adequate distance between the
new and old holes. It isn't pretty, but it's also not as bad as I
expected. It'll just be a few more holes to fill with micro before I paint
it.
>
>A method to avoid this problem -- after you've drilled the elevator skin to
>the skeleton, but before you have drilled the holes into the tip ribs, clamp
>the tip ribs and skin with cleco side clamps, take it all out of the jig,
>and fit it to the HS. You'll probably find that the skins are in the way a
>little bit, as you haven't formed the leading edge bend yet, but should be
>able to find some method of making sure everything matches.
This is just how I found my problem. If I hadn't, it probably would have
required a complete rebuild of the elevator. Ouch.
Just call me Mr. Bondo!
-----
Bill Pace The only expensive tool
wbpace(at)adnc.com is a cheap tool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernst Totland" <ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se> |
| Subject: | Re: New member of the list (Volvo convertion) |
On Jun 13, 8:46am, John Morrissey wrote:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: New member of the list (Chatter - humor)
> Oh my God NO!! not a Volvo in the air!!! Having been run over twice by Volvo
> drivers (who have a particullarly bad reputation for poor driving here in
> Australia1) The thought of a sky full of Volvo drivers fills me with terror!!
> :-)
>
> An RV with a crash crumple zone??
>
> Welcome to the list!!
>
> How much did the installation cost?? how many hours has it run?? what sort
> of problems have they encountered with the engine?
>
> John Morrissey
>
> >
> >I am hoping to build an rv6 in time, in that respect I am wondering if any
> >of you have heard anyting about putting a Volvo engine in a rv?
> >
> >There are these swedish guys who have put the 6cylinder version of a
> >960Volvo engine in a Piper Pony, it has been running for some time now
> >pulling gliders with a 4 bladed prop and silencer, nice and quiet!
> >
> >I recently heard that someone has put a Volvo engine in an rv, probably
> >the 5 cylinder version of the same engine, but that's all I have heard.
> >
> >Finn Egil Grimnes
> >
>
>-- End of excerpt from John Morrissey
Interesting to hear about the reputation of Volvo drivers abroad. How about
Saab drivers?
Well, I had the opportunity to take a closer look at the "PiVo" project
a couple of weeks ago. It is a modified PA-25 Pawnee with a straight
Volvo 960, 6 cylinder, 3 liter engine running on 91/96UL fuel. The idea
is to use an off-the-shelf engine and the only physical modification
encountered is the addition of a double belt, 3 to 1 reduction drive.
The original injection and ignition systems were retained (only one spark
plug per cylinder). Acessories like the exhaust system and the huge external
muffler are custom made. Some modification to the engine computer software
has also been necessary (done by Volvo engine engineers). The propeller,
a custom made two blade fix pitch, is designed for a cruise rpm of approx 1700.
The aircraft is extremely quiet, hardly any engine noice at all at some
distance, just a little whisper from the propeller could be heard. The engine
is claimed to be rated to 200 hp at 6000 rpm, but judging from the observed
climb performance the thrust is not equivalent to the original installation, as
claimed. It is however sufficient for towing a fiberglass two-seat glider.
First flight was in June -95 and I they have about 60 hours in the air by now.
What I have heard, they have not had any serious problems. The engine has been
running hot, mainly due to poor air flow through the radiator and oil coolers,
but also due to exhaust system problems. These defects have been corrected.
I also suspect they have an inefficient propeller, which to some extent
explains the relatively poor climb performance.
Regarding installation cost, I do not know how much money is invested. However,
it is an off the shelf engine, and the rumour says they got it for free from
Volvo.
I have also heard of another team working on converting a 5 cylinder
Volvo engine for a Cessna 172. Personally, I cannot understand this
love for Volvo when there are Saabs!!!! Well, Volvo has a reputation for
reliability, but I would not rely on a car engine in my RV6.
At least not until it has been proven in thousands of flight hours.
Hope this is of some interest.
Ernst Totland
ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se
RV-6 #20898 SE-XOI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Taylor" <gmt(at)mail.iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Jon Johanson - details |
As Royce Craven has already posted, Jon Johanson will depart Point
Cook, Melbourne on 10.00am local time, Friday 21 June, starting his
second global trip.
His first leg is to Perth, thence to Port Hedland (North up the west
coast of Australia), then out over the Indian Ocean to Cocos Islands,
Rodrigues Island, Mauritius, then Durban in South Africa. He will
spend 2 weeks in South Africe, then off the Ascension Island in the
mid Atlantic, on to Brazil, Barbados, Florida (I'll post an exact
destination when I have it), and on to Oshkosh.
The return to Australia will be in late September, from Vans down to Monterey,
to
Hilo in Hawaii, Christmas Island, Pago Pago, Norfolk Island, Sydney,
Point Cook, and finally back home to Adelaide.
He will have a digital camera, laptop, and modem, and will upload to a web page
details and pictures of his flight. The site address (It's not quite
ready yet) will be
www.nasma.com.au/saaa
This page will be sponsored by the National Air & Space Museum at
Point Cook, and will be supported by SAAA (Sport Aircraft Association
of Australia, the Downunder equivalent off EAA)
Jon will be staying with me during his spell in Perth, so if you want
to say a personal Hi to him, send your message here. Later you will
be able to get him via the web page.
Graham Taylor gmt(at)iinet.net.au
RV-6A - the light is at the end of the tunnel.
Graham Taylor gmt(at)iinet.net.au
Ph (619) 310 3254 Fax (619) 310 6048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
> Has everyone who has applied for night
>certification using this system gotten it?
>Stuart Fraley
>RV-6 Tail, done except weights and tips
>Wings coming July
>
Stuart:
I have seen plenty of RV's with this system. You can see them from a
reasonable distance behind. I have a tail srobe in the rudder bottom and
while it was more difficult than the wing tip rear light system it wasn't
all that bad. IMHO
it gives you one more strobe that might just keep somebody from running up
your tail.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix10.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>I just received my order from Spruce West - 8 feet of 3/16" x 1.25" ALU
>bar. I had put on my order that I wanted 2 peices of 4'. However,
>they shipped it as 8' adding 2 pounds of unnessesary packaging weight
>PLUS oversize charges from UPS - total shipping charges $18 on a $19
>order! (I'm not sure what good what Spruce East is - they didn't have
>it in stock so it was shipped from CA to here in FL.)
>
>Seems my idea of building an airplane at low cost is going down the
>drain.
>
>Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is to put this kind of order on
>two lines on the order form (2 identical lines, 4' on each line) --
>thought this might be useful to some of you.
>
>Finn (on horz stab, and grumpy)
>
>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Finn & everyone
>just for the record in the last five years I have talked to no one who was
happy with aircraft screwup.... they consistly overcharge on their shipping....
they don't know what you are talking about when you're trying to order
something..they will ship a partially filled order so you have to pay the
overcharged shipping twice....(which I think do with glee) they are back
ordered.
Now then about them know about your dissatifation by changing vendors, there
are plenty others.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>Finn (finished cutting the taper in horz stab spar flanges with
RV>hacksaw - better than going to gym for workout!)
RV>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.co
OUCH!! Buy, beg, borrow or _steal_ a bandsaw!! My little brother's saw
worked very nice for my HS flange cutting. :-)
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>I'm curious as to how effective it is to post things about
>political issues such as the recent "AOPA Alert" regarding
>the Aviation Trust fund and User Fees. If you saw my posting,
>and wrote to your senator as a result, could you drop me
>a _private_ e-mail please?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
>
>
>
>
I sent letters to Senator's Dodd, Kennelly, and Leiberman of Conn....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
Item Subject: RV-List: Spar bolts
There is a guy in the local (Eugene, OR) RV builders' group who used
to work for Boeing. Apparently they soak the very large spar bolts in
liquid nitrogen for several days. The bolts are then inserted into
deliberately undersized holes in the spar. When the bolts heat back
up to room temp., they expand. He says that the spar and bolts are
essentially one part after this process, and that removing the bolt is
basically impossible. Makes for a very strong spar, though.
Ted Boudreaux
ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com
RV6A #22435 in limbo while I move
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Spar bolts
HP-Corvallis,shargw1
Date: 6/13/96 10:08 PM
Since no-one else mentioned it -
Why not put the bolts in the freezer overnight and maybe even take a
heater to the spars?
Of cause it won't handle an excessive mismatch in diameter, but could
make extensive hammering unneccessary.
Finn (finished cutting the taper in horz stab spar flanges with
hacksaw - better than going to gym for workout!)
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Too Fay - ing |
[snip!]
> I used some proseal on the firewall.
> The silicon based products should be good to calk seams (assuming they
> are primed as most of these give off aceatic (?sp) acid.
> Herman
I believe the acetic acid RTV thing has been shown to be a non-issue.
The following is an article I wrote for the Van's Air Force Home
Wing Newsletter (December 1995 issue), and also posted here at that time.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
-----
RTV Revisited
First some history: A couple of years ago some concern popped up among
builders about the fact that normal RTV contains acetic acid which can
allegedly be corrosive to aluminum. Since then there has been a lot of
discussion about what to use instead, and Van's manual now specifies
"Electronic grade" RTV which contains no acetic acid.
Last night at our monthly meeting, Bill Benedict (Van's GM) related
some interesting new information on this subject.
Van's had spoken to someone at one of the RTV manufacturers who said
that the Acetic acid based RTV was originally developed for the
_purpose_ of making it stick better to aluminum! Apparently the other
type would peel off a lot easier, and the acetic acid gave it
self-etching properties.
Van's then made two samples, one with acetic acid and one without, and
gave them to local builder Steve Harris who put them in an
environmental chamber where (salt spray and the whole bit) for
something like 2 months. After that time neither sample showed any
corrosion, but the NON-acetic acid based RTV would peel off relatively
easily while the acetic acid based would not.
So maybe now we're back to using normal RTV after all!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>>I just received my order from Spruce West - 8 feet of 3/16" x 1.25" ALU
>>bar. I had put on my order that I wanted 2 peices of 4'. However,
>>they shipped it as 8' adding 2 pounds of unnessesary packaging weight
>>PLUS oversize charges from UPS - total shipping charges $18 on a $19
>>order! (I'm not sure what good what Spruce East is - they didn't have
>>it in stock so it was shipped from CA to here in FL.)
I must admit when I first heard that Alexander Aero was being bought by
Aircraft Spruce my first reaction was "oh, no..." as now there is one more
competitor sucked up by Big Business. ACS has been variably OK but it is
nice to have choices out in Aircraft Land where things that have AIRCRAFT
stamped on them are somewhat overpriced. I don't know any other mailorder
business that charges you for freight when something is backordered. Was it
MY falt they didn't have it in stock??? If you ship 2000 orders a day and
charge each one an extra dollar, adds up, yes it does.
"We're only in it for the money." Frank Zappa
Michael Kosta
RV-4 232SQ
Fly By July (or August, September, I don't know)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
Just for the record; I used AS throughout my second RV-4 project. I called
and talked to the man in charge of email orders first and gave him my cc
number, Jerry said he would be personally responsible for it and would not
enter it electronically in their system. I ordered all items via email,
Jerry usually got the order out the same or next day. They did partial
ship orders but I was never charged for the backorder shipping. In general
I am pleased with AS and will continue to order the products I need from
them.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
> There is a guy in the local (Eugene, OR) RV builders' group who used
> to work for Boeing. Apparently they soak the very large spar bolts in
> liquid nitrogen for several days. The bolts are then inserted into
> deliberately undersized holes in the spar. When the bolts heat back
> up to room temp., they expand. He says that the spar and bolts are
> essentially one part after this process, and that removing the bolt is
> basically impossible. Makes for a very strong spar, though.
>
>Ted Boudreaux
Too tight of a fit might not be a good idea in case dis-assembly is
required. I helped a RV-6A owner remove his wings so the wrecked airplane
could be transported home. It was about 20 degrees in an unheated hanger.
They had hammered their close tolerance bolts in and they were a nighmare to
remove. What is there, 70 some bolts? Standing on your head removing all
of these bolts was fun. We worked in shifts. The weldments for the main
gear were a real pain to work around.
What happened? The pilot took off on a rough (moguls?) grass strip, got
launched but didn't have flying speed, tensed up and fed in some rudder and
when he hit, hit cockeyed. He bent the nose gear back under the belly. In
fact, the nose gear fairing poked a hole in the .040" belly skin. The left
gear was bent back and punched a hole in the .032" bottom skin, just ahead
of the rear spar. Suprisingly, there was almost no damage to the fiberglass
fairings, just paint scuffs. It went down on the left wing and popped the
wing tip off. Very little damage. We speculated that had the wing tips
been installed with machine screws, much more metal damage would have occured.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Why not put the bolts in the freezer overnight and maybe even take a
>heater to the spars?
>
>Of cause it won't handle an excessive mismatch in diameter, but could
>make extensive hammering unneccessary.
>
>Finn
Probably would work. In a perfect world, the bolts should be a better fit.
On my first RV, the bolts were very tight. The bolts would hardly fit into
one flange strip. I polished the close tolerance holes with Scotch brite on
a mandrel to get a good fit (and to take out the primer). The bolts on the
second set of spars were a better fit. After priming each spar flange strip,
I cleaned the primer out of the close tolerance holes before it dried. (The
other 3/16" holes didn't present any problems, even with primer in them.)
You should not have to beat on the bolts with a big hammer. I'm sure a lot
of spars are drilled with the same reamer, hence the different tolerances
from spar to spar (new bit vs. old) Adjustable reamers would work good in
this application but adds to the tool cost inventory. BTW, I reamed the
rear spar attach and where the fuel tank attaches to the fuselage. Not
called for in the plans, but made me feel better.
Your idea of heat and cold works on the installation of the AN fittings
in the fuel selector valve. Typical pipe thread problem, too tight or not
tight enough. I was afraid to put the torque on the aluminum fittings that
was required to get the fittings to point straight down. Put the AN
fittings in the freezer and heated the valve. Worked well. Bob Skinner
RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn) |
Last night I began to assemble the HS skeleton on my -8. I clecoing the six
ribs to the rear spar. Then I clamped the front spar to those ribs. The
left end rib was square to the rear spar but the right end rib need a full
1/8 of an inch to be square (when clamped to the front spar).
That seems like a lot of shimming to me. HS-810 & HS-814 were challenging
but everything seemded to measure correctly when building the front spar.
What happened? Any suggestions.
Thanks for your help, y'all.
Ron
Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Randall,
I kept my mail-o-gram from AOPA with the intention of firing off a letter.
But the reality is I would not have done it....if it wasn't for your form
letter.
Thank you for taking the time to post that letter. BTW it was well written.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenDulkRV6(at)aol.com |
I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to go
through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
again largely from the same person.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
FYI, I have also have had my share of dis-satisfaction with ACS.
However, I saw some time back that they had changed their policy
and they now pay the shipping charges on any Back Ordered items.
That should help a lot, but it can still be a pain to have items on BO.
Herman
> >I just received my order from Spruce West - 8 feet of 3/16" x 1.25" ALU
> >bar. I had put on my order that I wanted 2 peices of 4'. However,
> >they shipped it as 8' adding 2 pounds of unnessesary packaging weight
> >PLUS oversize charges from UPS - total shipping charges $18 on a $19
> >order! (I'm not sure what good what Spruce East is - they didn't have
> >it in stock so it was shipped from CA to here in FL.)
> >
> >Seems my idea of building an airplane at low cost is going down the
> >drain.
> >
> >Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is to put this kind of order on
> >two lines on the order form (2 identical lines, 4' on each line) --
> >thought this might be useful to some of you.
> >
> >Finn (on horz stab, and grumpy)
> >
> >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
> >
>
>
> Finn & everyone
> >just for the record in the last five years I have talked to no one who was
> happy with aircraft screwup.... they consistly overcharge on their shipping....
> they don't know what you are talking about when you're trying to order
> something..they will ship a partially filled order so you have to pay the
> overcharged shipping twice....(which I think do with glee) they are back
> ordered.
>
> Now then about them know about your dissatifation by changing vendors, there
> are plenty others.
> >
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
What's an RV-6Q?
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Actually have a cheap one (fixed speed) but I ruined the blade trying
to cut 4130 steel. Didn't want to spend another $15 on a blade -
anyway, good exercise, and really makes you feel YOU are building the
plane (felt I was cheating a bit because bought old kit with wings
already skinned)!
Finn
You wrote:
>
>RV>Finn (finished cutting the taper in horz stab spar flanges with
>RV>hacksaw - better than going to gym for workout!)
>
>RV>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.co
>
>OUCH!! Buy, beg, borrow or _steal_ a bandsaw!! My little brother's saw
>worked very nice for my HS flange cutting. :-)
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to g
RV>through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
RV>again largely from the same person
You need to send a message to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com with the
word unsubscribe as the **ONLY** word in the body of the message.
toodles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to go
>through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
>again largely from the same person.
>
It appears you missed the messages on unsubscribing from the list .
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>
>What's an RV-6Q?
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>
It's the ordering code for the RV-6 Quickbuild kit.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix5.ix.netcom.com> |
>Harry
>
>Would you send me your snail-mail address?
>
>Rgds
>Mark
>
>Its on the last newletter....
477 Printz Rd
Arroyo Grande, Calif 93420
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Wing Spars |
> By the way, I've heard that it is a good idea to
>paint the bolts with primer and dirve them in wet when you get ready to
>install the wings. Anyone know about that?
>
>
I started with epoxy primer and switched to Sherman William's 980 self
etching primer, (with zinc chromate). During assembly I had great difficulty
with tight bolts and rivets. The only way to install the bolts and many of
the rivets on the spars was to first wet the hole by using the liquid primer
with a Q-tip. The bolts and rivets (that fit properly) easily slid into
place. I now do this with all of the bolts. It gives me a measure of
confidence against future corrosion.
________________________________________________________________________________
Freezing the bolts won't make much of a difference, Finn. There are various
techniques for easing interference fits, the idea is to heat the undersized
part (oil bath or heat lamps), and/or cool the oversized part ( freezer or a
dry ice&acetone bath). It works great for larger parts, say over an inch
diameter, but for anything smaller, the change in diameter won't be
significant.
What works very well is to drive (tap) the bolt in with a rivet gun and flush
set while backing up the other side (beside the hole, not covering it!) with
a bucking bar. Of course, it's recommended by some sources (required, even)
to prime the shank of the bolt and install it wet. On cad-plated bolts, the
plating will usually scrape off and gather under the head, so it might be
wise to remove this excess before driving the head completely home.
When the time comes to remove the bolt, do the reverse, but don't get too
wild: if you mushroom the end, things get more difficult. Often when I'm
taking something apart, I just drill off the heads of close tolerance bolts
and drive through rather than going to the trouble of taking the nut (or
whatever) off.
As for masochism: I don't even own a hacksaw or a set of "aviation" snips,
and my time is worth far, far more than the expense of the tools I use
instead.
John Kimmel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Jig and Brackets |
Ron, I put the spar sholder high for most of the work is from spar down. The
leading edge and tanks are made on the bench. I also rigged it so that after
the skins are in place with clecos, I could swivel it up to lap level to
work on the flaps and aelirons while seated. worked great. I to am building
them both at the same time. Mine are end to end. Almost done.
Cecil Hatfield RV-6A in Thousand Oaks California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:----Nice---- |
FYI Last week I mailed Van's an order for fuel sending units, and added a
note saying that if they had gotten around to making inspection plates and
reinforcing rings for the tanks, to send me some.
Great days, - - - they not only had them, but they have all the rivinut
holes punched, sending unit holes punched, fuel pick-up hole punched and the
two nose reinforcement pieces made. What a deal. I went back to the catalog
to see if I had missed them and still didn't see them so thought I would
post this for you guys and gals that are in-to wing construction. I'm sure
Van will have these in his next catalog.
Cecil Hatfield RV-6A in Thousand Oaks California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Redfield <75160.3373(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
I am at the point in building a RV-6A where the holes for the electrical conduit
must
be drilled in the wing ribs. Orndorf's video puts them in the bottom of the wing
behind the spar. F. Justice says about 2-1`/4 behind the spar and 1-1/2 below
the
top skin, which puits them in a lightening hole, by my calculations. What are
the
popular locations and why are they preferred?
Tom Redfield
75160.3373(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Any builders near Banff/Calgary |
My wife and I will be vacationing in the east BC/Alberta area this August.
She's not too interested in RV's but I may be able to get away from the
poolside/tourist areas. Any builders or flyers in that area that would like
a visitor please give me an email. I'm an EAA Tech Counselor as well as RV
builder/flyer (RV-6).
Thanks,
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
Where ever you put them, just be sure to leave room to buck the rivets when
you install the skin. I didn't and had a heck of a time getting some of them
bucked.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I too sent off your letter to my senators and representative. Thanks for
making it easy for me.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to go
>through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
>again largely from the same person.
>
>
Well, if you're going to get grouchy about it, maybe you'ld be better just
answering your own questions. Have fun out there by yourself...we'll be
here enjoying each other without you.
:.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
All suggestions gratefully considered.
Peter Bennett
RV6 the right way up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
> In general
>I am pleased with AS and will continue to order the products I need from
>them.
>
>Dan Boudro
Likewise! I haven't ordered a lot from them recently, but in the past I
would say I was 95% satisfied with them. I think there are many folks
building aircraft who have the wrong impression about how the aviation world
REALLY works. I believe its related to the "Sue them" mentality, and would
like to see it stop.
Jim Stugart
________________________________________________________________________________
For what it's worth: my old AF manual on Aircraft sheet metal maintenance
has the following information under Installation of bolts and nuts. Close
tolerance bolts are a tight drive fit. "A tight drive fit, for example, is
one in which a sharp blow of a 12- or 14-ounce hammer is required to move
the bolt."
To me, when I was 'hammering ' in the wing bolts, I thought that something
must be wrong, too tight. A few nights later when looking up something
else, I ran across this information, made me feel a little better regarding
the fit.
I have not sweated the ones that didn't require a 'sharp' blow or many blows.
One thing that has not been mentioned, the possible need for extra washers
to make sure that the nut does not bind at the end of the threads before
seating on the plate. I had assumed the bolts to be the right length, but
not so. I had to use up to 4 washers on some of mine. When I disassembled
to move to the airport, I used a marker to put on the spar how many washers
I used at each hole, sure made it easier at final assembly. With the close
work space, it was frustrating originally to tighten the nut, only to have
the bolt still rotateable afterwards, necessitating removal of the nut,
install washers, and then try again. Seems that the spar sort of springs
apart, and the eyeball says the bolt is the right length, but then the spar
compresses, hence the need for the washers.
I know that this is pretty basic, but it was frustrating to me that first
time on the wing spars. Hope it saves someone out there some additional
frustration.
I may have screwed up, but I used old fashion axle grease to lub. my spars
to slip into the fus. location. It was very tight and I guess the gold
treatment on the spar made it rougher, hence the need for the grease. I did
the same on the first install. of the bolts. the final install. I used the
LDS (not the religion) and sprayed each bolt just before installing.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
I Still have the two new wing-tips and usable cowl for the RV-3.
Have not heard further from anyone---
They will be relegated to "permanent storage" soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) |
| Subject: | Fire extinguisher |
In the last Sport Aviation there is an article by Tony B. that shows a
picture of his RV-3 with a fire extinguisher system installed. This looks
like a good thing that we all probably overlook or leave out. Let's visit
this idea.
Most race cars have some type system that pipes "halon" gas to vital trouble
spots. i seems this could be done with alum. tubing to the carb.,rear case,
battery without a great expense. Any thoughts or have you seen such a
system. I wrote Tony for details.
One thing that started this was my A&P was somewhat upset over the
fuel boost pump location on my RV-4. (Under the front console as shown in
the plans)
Anybody find a different location that works better, both from saftey and
mechanics?
David Cahoon - Arkansas - Fininshing up canopy
dcahoon(at)intellinet.com
David Cahoon ( )
Jonesboro, Arkansas ( ) ) ^^
dcahoon(at)intellinet.com ( ) )^^
(____________) ___________
|
\______________________(*)_____________________/
0
Memphis Soaring Society
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>I am at the point in building a RV-6A where the holes for the electrical
conduit must
> be drilled in the wing ribs.
///
Nobody seems to have mentioned recently that it's a good idea to thread a
string through a conduit for the NEXT time a wire needs pulling. There's
always a next time.
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Curtis Chapin <wmchapin(at)dmci.net> |
>I Still have the two new wing-tips and usable cowl for the RV-3.
> Have not heard further from anyone---
>
> They will be relegated to "permanent storage" soon
What are your terms? Maybe I could store them alongside mine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Rod Woodard
Well, I knew it was just a matter of time but it looks like I screwed up pretty
bad. While dimpling for the VS skin for the forward spar using a C-frame tool,
between hammer blows the skin lifted and the next blow put a nice new dimpled
hole just next to the real one. I am now wondering should I just join the DIA
club and order a new skin or try to salvage this one, here are my concerns that
I hope some of you can give me your opinion of:
- I believe that filling the hole with microballoons would cover things
cosmetically but the two holes are touching each other, that is it's really only
one big goofy looking hole. I re-dimpled the real hole and doing that flattened
the unwanted holes dimple. With a rivet in the real hole it still looks like it
would be ok cosmetically with ballons but I'm worried about the rivet not
holding very well with a incomplete hole.
- If I do just suck it up and order a new skin, how am I going to make sure I
can final drill the holes accuratelly to the skeleton that I have that's already
dimpled?
Are there option any of you know of that I don't. Perhaps covering both of these
holes with ballons and drilling a third close by for a real rivet? Just what I
want is another hole, but that's probably the best thing structurally.
Greg Puckett
RV-8 sn 80081
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
> While dimpling for the VS skin for the forward spar using a C-frame tool,
> between hammer blows the skin lifted and the next blow put a nice new dimpled
> hole just next to the real one. I am now wondering should I just join the DIA
> club and order a new skin or try to salvage this one, here are my concerns that
One bad rivet is not going to cause your airplane to fall out of the sky.
My suggestion: put it together like you would have normally, and worry about
cosmetic repairs later. However, you do want to make sure you get rid of
any sharp edges so it doesn't promote cracking.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
Greg, That's not a big error. To me a big error is something like sawing
the spar in half by mistake!
Remember the spacing is usually shown as 'nominal', meaning approximately.
So you add a new hole on or just over minimum clearance spacing either side
(assuming it's not some very critical obstruction area) and there you put
your 'construction' rivets. You just have the thing with some extra
strength! Yes, the 'mistake' rivet is there, with a little micro to fill,
may mess up the beautiful, even spacing, but if you're going for number one
at Osh., and have unlimited funds, then start over completely. I wasn't and
I didn't, and this is the way I corrected some of my 'little' goofs. And
you know what? Now that the whole thing is finished, painted and flown, I
have to remember hard and look close to see those that I thought were major
problems at the time of construction.
Press on and do what suits you best, but what you have described isn't
really major, it just hurts your pride that you did it. I know, been there,
done that.
John D
>Are there option any of you know of that I don't. Perhaps covering both of
these
>holes with ballons and drilling a third close by for a real rivet? Just what I
>want is another hole, but that's probably the best thing structurally.
>
>
> Greg Puckett
> RV-8 sn 80081
>
>
>
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
>- I believe that filling the hole with microballoons would cover things
>cosmetically but the two holes are touching each other, that is it's really
only
>one big goofy looking hole. I re-dimpled the real hole and doing that flattened
>the unwanted holes dimple. With a rivet in the real hole it still looks like it
>would be ok cosmetically with ballons but I'm worried about the rivet not
>holding very well with a incomplete hole.
>Are there option any of you know of that I don't. Perhaps covering both of
these
>holes with ballons and drilling a third close by for a real rivet? Just what I
>want is another hole, but that's probably the best thing structurally.
Greg Puckett
RV-8 sn 80081
Greg, I would suggest that you drill new holes on each side of the
mis-drilled hole (utilizing the appropriate spacing) and rivet all three
holes. If you really want peace of mind, call the factory. Hopefully, you
will receive other input from this list so you don't base your actions on
just my recommendation. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
Greg Puckett wrote...
>Well, I knew it was just a matter of time but it looks like I screwed
>up pretty bad. While dimpling for the VS skin for the forward spar
>using a C-frame tool, between hammer blows the skin lifted and the
>next blow put a nice new dimpled hole just next to the real one. I am
>now wondering should I just join the DIA club and order a new skin or
>try to salvage this one,....SNIP
Greg,
If that is the biggest mistake you have on the A/C when finished,
expect to pick up a "grand Champion" award.... IMHO go ahead and rivet
and fill the extra "bit of hole" with some micro. When it is painted,
there will be only you [and of course all of us other 499 listers ;)]
who will know.....
As for structure, so long as you dont have any cracks or sharp corners
there should be no problem. To meet official specs not all rivets need
to be perfect... so waht have you got - 1 bad in 100?. - I'll repeat
my advice... any time you are feeling bad, go to the ramp and look -
really look - closely at some spam-cans.
Good luck with the rest
Rob Lee
N517RL - RV6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrabstonD(at)aol.com |
reference the band saw.
That brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why. They told me that
those saws could not be used to cut aluminum. They were made for wood only.
They recommended that I purhcase the heavy metal shop version, $300 and up.
I used the hollow ground planer blade and my table saw. I still think the
typical inexpensive woodshop band saw would have done the job if I had
ordered the blades special made. Has anyone tried that?
Doug Brabston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Lycoming electronic ignition |
Does anyone have info on the Lycoming electronic ignition? In
particular, does it require dual batteries or any other precautions
against single point of failure. Have details been published?
I don't recall seeing this on the list but if it's had a run I'll use
it as an excuse to learn about the archive search.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 fus out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
William Curtis Chapin wrote:
>
> >I Still have the two new wing-tips and usable cowl for the RV-3.
> > Have not heard further from anyone---
> >
> > They will be relegated to "permanent storage" soon
>
> What are your terms? Maybe I could store them alongside mine...
First come, first served---One group said they would pick them up but no
show, no word. I would prefer someone make use of them rather than end
up in someone's junk pile--that is where they came from!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
>reference the band saw.
>
>That brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
>spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
>you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
>cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why.
///
I found a metal-working bandsaw at a garage sale.
I had been looking to buy the same model, which sells new for $180
The blades are under $10 each.
It cuts up to 4 x 7 inch steel.
It goes through 2 in diam hi-tensile alum rod no trouble.
Cutting 1/8 inch slices is fun.
It is a 'made in China' deal.
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Thanks Bakersfield (chatter) |
I just wanted to express my appreciation for the excellent flyin and feast
put on by the Bakersfield EAA Ch 71 last weekend. We got there a little
late but the talk by Jack Norris (?) was great. You folks have some
tremendous resources down there, and lots of helping hands when a couple of
us showed up with some bad-cylinder-karma. ...Ok, so I am a little
aggressive on leaning when its 100 degrees, I'm from the northwest where
best power always seems to be ok :). After 17 total hrs in a C-150 from
Vancouver, WA to Bakersfield and back I had some nice white exhaust stacks.
And if that trip in a C-150 isn't incentive to get busy building then
nothing is!
Special thanks to Bill Lewis for his services on sunday morning and to all
those who loaned us tools to get us going and to get us both back home again.
We hope to see some of you at the Northwest RV Flyin at Scappoose OR on June
22. And always on the first saturday of every month, the EAA Ch 105
Breakfast at Twin Oaks Airpark south of Hillsboro.
Blue skies,
Mike & Jackie
sn's 23530 & 23596
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tubing Flares ... HELP |
I know this is supposed to be educational, but not this frustrating.
I am having the following problems trying to flare the 3003 soft alum. tubing
for the brake/fuel lines:
1. The Imperial Eastman flaring tool I am using puts major circumferential
ridges on the outside of the tube.
2. It also leaves a little ridge on the outside at the flare parallel to the
tube. This is where the split is in the die holder. Problem #1 is not
serious, this is.
3. An A&P friend, (a First Class craftsman, "assisting" with a Lancair IVP)
says he does not use 3003 for anything, but uses the rigid tubing, I assume
he means 5052.
4. I borrowed a "Rolo-Flair" tool from him. It does not leave the ridges on
the outside, but does have problem #2.
So, what is it opinion of the List?
Bruce Patton
-6A, with finishing kit, 3 months early.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
>Well, I knew it was just a matter of time but it looks like I screwed up pretty
>bad. While dimpling for the VS skin for the forward spar using a C-frame tool,
>between hammer blows the skin lifted and the next blow put a nice new dimpled
>hole just next to the real one. I am now wondering should I just join the DIA
>club and order a new skin or try to salvage this one, here are my concerns that
>I hope some of you can give me your opinion of:
>
>- I believe that filling the hole with microballoons would cover things
>cosmetically but the two holes are touching each other, that is it's really
only
>one big goofy looking hole. I re-dimpled the real hole and doing that flattened
>the unwanted holes dimple. With a rivet in the real hole it still looks like it
>would be ok cosmetically with ballons but I'm worried about the rivet not
>holding very well with a incomplete hole.
>
>- If I do just suck it up and order a new skin, how am I going to make sure I
>can final drill the holes accuratelly to the skeleton that I have that's
already
>dimpled?
>
>Are there option any of you know of that I don't. Perhaps covering both of
these
>holes with ballons and drilling a third close by for a real rivet? Just what I
>want is another hole, but that's probably the best thing structurally.
>
>
> Greg Puckett
> RV-8 sn 80081
>
>
>
>
Don't order a new skin yet. You probably don't need to do anything but fill
the unwanted hole with the body putty of your choice: how much stress is
ever imposed on the skins of the VS? If you want to exercise an abundance
of caution, drill another #40 hole as far away as you can on the other side
of the inadvertent one without hitting a flute, then countersink it for the
smaller headed "oops" rivet, NAS1097AD3-3 or -4. These are available from
Van's, and you will want a supply of them for attaching nutplates later. If
you are careful in your countersinking, it will probably be invisible after
painting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tubing Flares ... HELP |
>4. I borrowed a "Rolo-Flair" tool from him. It does not leave the ridges on
>the outside, but does have problem #2.
>Bruce Patton
Bruce, I use the "Rolo-Flair". As you say, it does leave raised areas where
the dies come together. I just went over to the bench grinder and buffed
these bumps out with the Scotchbrite wheel. If you're careful, you can buff
these out without touching the surrounding surfaces. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming electronic ignition |
>Does anyone have info on the Lycoming electronic ignition? In
>particular, does it require dual batteries or any other precautions
>against single point of failure. Have details been published?
>
>I don't recall seeing this on the list but if it's had a run I'll use
>it as an excuse to learn about the archive search.
>
>Peter Bennett
Peter, The way I understand it, the Laser ignition package consists of
regular magnetos with the addition of electronic ignition. If the
electronic ignition fails, operation reverts to conventional mag operation.
Neat idea. Kind of pricey, though.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage Jig Tip |
Just finished riveting some of the aft fuselage side skins
and though I'd post this tip for would be fuselage jig
builders. When you make the 8"-10" triangular wood gussetts
that are shown in the plans and are intended to add
stability to the jig be sure they are at least 10" or more,
you'll be forever laying tools, drills, clekos etc on them.
If you really want to do it right add a small lip on the
outby edge to keep clekos from rolling off on to the floor.
chet razer: still haven't seen an RV6A in real life.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
aol.com!BrabstonD(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> reference the band saw.
>
> That brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
> spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
> you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
> cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why. They told me that
> those saws could not be used to cut aluminum. They were made for wood only.
> They recommended that I purhcase the heavy metal shop version, $300 and up.
> I used the hollow ground planer blade and my table saw. I still think the
> typical inexpensive woodshop band saw would have done the job if I had
> ordered the blades special made. Has anyone tried that?
>
> Doug Brabston
Yes Doug, I purchased a Black & Decker Band saw from Wal
Mart and put a B&D metal blade on it (14 tpi). I used my
Radial Arm saw to taper my wing spar flange strips. So far
the band saw has been great and I don't know how I ever got
along without it. I believe it would work well for tapering
the flanges.
chet razer: riveting second aft side skin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> Actually have a cheap one (fixed speed) but I ruined the blade trying
> to cut 4130 steel. Didn't want to spend another $15 on a blade -
> anyway, good exercise, and really makes you feel YOU are building the
> plane (felt I was cheating a bit because bought old kit with wings
> already skinned)!
> Finn
>
> You wrote:
> >
> >RV>Finn (finished cutting the taper in horz stab spar flanges with
> >RV>hacksaw - better than going to gym for workout!)
> >
> >RV>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.co
> >
> >OUCH!! Buy, beg, borrow or _steal_ a bandsaw!! My little brother's saw
> >worked very nice for my HS flange cutting. :-)
> >
> >Rod Woodard
> >RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
> >
> >
> >Try a bimetalic blade, more expensive, but it works.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
aol.com!BrabstonD(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> reference the band saw.
>
> That brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
> spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
> you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
> cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why. They told me that
> those saws could not be used to cut aluminum. They were made for wood only.
> They recommended that I purhcase the heavy metal shop version, $300 and up.
> I used the hollow ground planer blade and my table saw. I still think the
> typical inexpensive woodshop band saw would have done the job if I had
> ordered the blades special made. Has anyone tried that?
>
> Doug BrabstonDoug, I hacked with a hand hacksaw for about 5 minutes. Then went
and
bought a 12" Delta bandsaw using a nonferrous metal blade. It cust 1/4"
stock easily and I can still use it for wood, haven't broken a blade yet
in 9 months. Just don't try to cut steel without an expensive bimetal
blade.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
Any scavengers (Portland area) want to go to Boeing Surplus with me next
week? (any weekday except Monday) I'll brief you on the good deals if you
buy me lunch.
John Kimmel
reply to: blpzk(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Tools (band saw blade) |
I took the advice of several people on this list and returned my direct
drive, oil free compressor. The replacement ($290 from Sams) is a 5 hp,
20 gal belt drive, oil bath compressor. Y'all were right... much
quieter. Thanks.
Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't supposed
to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on the
subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
(Or am I confused?) Black and Decker doesn't make a bi-metal blade for
their saws (according to their customer service line), and I've not had
any luck finding one that'll fit (the required length is 59 1/4 inches).
I've been able to find 56 1/8 inch bi-metal blades no problem, but that
doesn't help. Any suggested sources or advice?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
RV-6A(Q)
Waiting for delivery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Howard,
The Orndorff's address is orndorffg(at)aol.com. Please feel free to send
us any and all of your questions.
George and Becki
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael C. Gamble" <mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks Bakersfield (chatter) |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5AFA.F32913E0
Hi Gang:
I went today to the Portervile, CA fly in and got to see the RV8 up =
close and personal! Cool is all I can say. There were several RV-4s, 3s, =
and a harmod Rocket. Had fun, where did I put my check book?
Mick
----------
From: Michael McGee[SMTP:teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 1996 4:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Thanks Bakersfield (chatter)
I just wanted to express my appreciation for the excellent flyin and =
feast
put on by the Bakersfield EAA Ch 71 last weekend. We got there a little
late but the talk by Jack Norris (?) was great. You folks have some
tremendous resources down there, and lots of helping hands when a couple =
of
us showed up with some bad-cylinder-karma. ...Ok, so I am a little
aggressive on leaning when its 100 degrees, I'm from the northwest where
best power always seems to be ok :). After 17 total hrs in a C-150 from
Vancouver, WA to Bakersfield and back I had some nice white exhaust =
stacks.
And if that trip in a C-150 isn't incentive to get busy building then
nothing is!
Special thanks to Bill Lewis for his services on sunday morning and to =
all
those who loaned us tools to get us going and to get us both back home =
again.=20
We hope to see some of you at the Northwest RV Flyin at Scappoose OR on =
June
22. And always on the first saturday of every month, the EAA Ch 105
Breakfast at Twin Oaks Airpark south of Hillsboro.
Blue skies,=20
Mike & Jackie
sn's 23530 & 23596
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5AFA.F32913E0
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AAAAAHtA
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5AFA.F32913E0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
<< t gives you one more strobe that might just keep somebody from running up
your tail.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard >>
Wait a minute Rusty - isn't that why we're building an RV in the first place?
So noboby CAN run up our tail? Personally, I'm getting tired of being
passed by birds in a Cessna.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
<< happy with aircraft screwup.... they consistly overcharge on their
shipping....
they don't know what you are talking about when you're trying to order
something..they will ship a partially filled order so you have to pay the
overcharged shipping twice....(which I think do with glee) they are back
ordered.
>>
I've had some bad experience with ACS, but they usually solve any problems to
my satisfaction. On the plus side they ship FREE if your order is over $500
(not usually a problem for me ) and they don't charge a handling fee,
just shipping. For example, Van's charges an additional $4 handling fee for
just about anything. Plus, I have NEVER been billed additional shipping
charges on a back ordered item. I think it must have been a mistake.
For the bewildering array of items they carry, IMHO they do a pretty good
job.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: Tools (band saw blade) |
You wrote:
>Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
>Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't
supposed
>to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on
the
>subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
>(Or am I confused?) Black and Decker doesn't make a bi-metal blade for
>their saws (according to their customer service line), and I've not
had
>any luck finding one that'll fit (the required length is 59 1/4
inches).
>I've been able to find 56 1/8 inch bi-metal blades no problem, but
that
>doesn't help. Any suggested sources or advice?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6A(Q)
>Waiting for delivery
>
Tim, I go to my local tool supplier (Arenson) and they can make up any
size bandsaw blade I want. I just bring in my old broken one and they
make me a custom one to the same length. They have reels and reels of
all kinds of different tooth pattern blades. They weld them together
custom and it costs no more than buying them elsewhere. ($6 as I
recall). For aluminum get a blade that is fairly wide with widely
spaced teeth. Get a "skip tooth" if you can. The only difference
between a metal cutting and a wood cutting bandsaw is the speed. The
metal saw has an extra belt and pulley to slow down the blade speed.
If you put a widely spaced tooth blade on a wood bandsaw, it will cut
aluminum just fine.
Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Tools (band saw blade) |
>I took the advice of several people on this list and returned my direct
>drive, oil free compressor. The replacement ($290 from Sams) is a 5 hp,
>20 gal belt drive, oil bath compressor. Y'all were right... much
>quieter. Thanks.
>
>Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
>Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't supposed
>to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on the
>subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
>(Or am I confused?) Black and Decker doesn't make a bi-metal blade for
>their saws (according to their customer service line), and I've not had
>any luck finding one that'll fit (the required length is 59 1/4 inches).
>I've been able to find 56 1/8 inch bi-metal blades no problem, but that
>doesn't help. Any suggested sources or advice?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6A(Q)
>Waiting for delivery
>
>
>
I've had good luck getting blades from a local shop where they build your
blade from stock to whatever length you need. They simply weld the blade
stock to the length you want. Call around in your area; I'm sure you'll be
able to find what you need. If you can't I could probably get my local
supplier to send you what you need.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Frank Zappa vs the RV builders |
Mike-
Glad to hear that there are other Zappa fans building planes. Still crazy
after all these years.
Escape from the weight of your Corporate Logo!-FZ
Vanremog(at)aol.com
N1GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
Speaking of shipping,watch out for Roadway trucking! I ordered a Steve Frey
RV-6
fuselage jig. It was missent to Lubbock, Tx instead of Ga., then it got lost
in Dallas
for a day or two. It finally arrived after 2 weeks in very sad shape. Some of
the damage looked as though it had to be intentional. Now I have to hassle
with them
to send an inspector out and then return the jig. Then the process will start
all over
again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com waiting...............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DM Cooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
Ref. Band Saw.
I purchased a 12" band saw from Harbor Freight (1-800-423-2567) for $99.
It works great. I buy my blades mail order from:
Supercut Bandsaw Co., Inc.
N2705 HWY 41
Post Falls, Idaho 83854
1-208-773-3546
I purchased the 62" length, 3/8" width, 14tooth blade.
What a cut-up. :-)
Dave Cooke dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools (band saw blade) |
>Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
>Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't supposed
>to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on the
>subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
>(Or am I confused?) Black and Decker doesn't make a bi-metal blade for
>their saws (according to their customer service line), and I've not had
>any luck finding one that'll fit (the required length is 59 1/4 inches).
>I've been able to find 56 1/8 inch bi-metal blades no problem, but that
>doesn't help. Any suggested sources or advice?
>Tim Lewis
Tim, If you can get a blade with 14 TPI and operate the saw at 300 rpms and
use some cutting fluid, I'll bet you'll get along OK. I have used a cheap
3-wheel band saw and have found that if I apply a bead of LPS TAP-ALL
tapping fluid (ACS, page 234, '95-'96 catalog) down the cut line that the
band saw blade will last a very long time. I use this, even on thin
material. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Wing - order of build |
I am looking for input on the following issue.
The Frank Justice supplements do not have you skin the leading edge until
later in the whole process. He has you do the ribs and aligned everything
but then has you do the Ailerons. George Orndorff builds the ribs, skins the
leading edge and then the tank. How have others done this and which way
worked better for you?
Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks
RV6 left wing
Rick 74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
>
><< t gives you one more strobe that might just keep somebody from running up
> your tail.
> Regards:
> Rusty Gossard >>
>
>Wait a minute Rusty - isn't that why we're building an RV in the first place?
> So noboby CAN run up our tail? Personally, I'm getting tired of being
>passed by birds in a Cessna.
>
>-- Ed Bundy
Ed:
Think about it the next time your cutting through the local MOA when a
flight of
lawn darts hauls ass by al low level..... and I have only been passed by 1
single engined GA aircraft. A Mirage. But passed him after we landed as he
was sitting at the fuel truck.:)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tools (band saw blade) |
>
>>Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
>>Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't supposed
>>to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on the
>>subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
BOY am I glad I didn't know all this before I bought my band saw. I bought
a 8 inch POJ (piece of junk) band saw from the local hardware store and used
it for 3 years using just the standard metal cutting blade. Worked great.
I finally went to Sears and got a 10 inch to have the extra room for cutting
and to have a better choice of blades. I have had NO trouble cutting just
about anything I needed to cut and the thing cost $85 for the small one and
$109 for the larger one. My only objection to the Sears model is that no
one sells the blade size except Sears. BUT there is a hardware store near
that will weld up whatever size and blade style I need. Have never used
their services. Bimetal?? Most of my cutting is Aluminum.
Synopsis: the Ordinary Shop Tools usually work just fine and I can spend my
hard earned cash on things for the airplane.
Michael Kosta
RV-4 232SQ
Fly By July (or August, September, I don't know. What?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
>In the last Sport Aviation there is an article by Tony B. that shows a
>picture of his RV-3 with a fire extinguisher system installed. This looks
>like a good thing that we all probably overlook or leave out. Let's visit
>this idea.
Sport Aviation May 1994 features an article on Dean Hall's RV-4 and he has a
Halon system installed for the fire wall forward. It's a neat system and he
says it only added 4 pounds. If you look at the photo at the bottom of page
81 of the engine, the tubing that is at the very top of the engine ending in
a blue fitting is the engine block outlet. I think there are 2 more in the
engine compartment. The GO knob is a large red doorknob-looking thing in
the cockpit.
The system is the Phoenix system from International Safety Systems, 2227
Idlewood Rd, Suite 4, Tucker GA, 30084; 404-938-2166 if they're still in
business.
Michael Kosta
RV-4 232SQ
Fly By July (or..........)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Curtis Chapin <wmchapin(at)dmci.net> |
>First come, first served---One group said they would pick them up but no
>show, no word. I would prefer someone make use of them rather than end
>up in someone's junk pile--that is where they came from!
Where are the parts located?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools (band saw blade) |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> I took the advice of several people on this list and returned my direct
> drive, oil free compressor. The replacement ($290 from Sams) is a 5 hp,
> 20 gal belt drive, oil bath compressor. Y'all were right... much
> quieter. Thanks.
>
> Problem de jour: I bought a 300-3000 rpm, Black and Decker band saw.
> Black and Decker's customer service folks tell me that one isn't supposed
> to use their saws for metal, but after reading the RV list archives on the
> subject I'm convinced it won't be a problem if I use the proper blade.
> (Or am I confused?) Black and Decker doesn't make a bi-metal blade for
> their saws (according to their customer service line), and I've not had
> any luck finding one that'll fit (the required length is 59 1/4 inches).
> I've been able to find 56 1/8 inch bi-metal blades no problem, but that
> doesn't help. Any suggested sources or advice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
> RV-6A(Q)
> Waiting for delivery
Tim, You can use a 14 tooth blade for alum. You should be able to run it
at the normal speed for wood. The only time you need a bimetallic blade
(moving slow) is with ferrous metals.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
David,
This is of great interest. Fire is the nightmare in a forced landing. There
was an article in Sports Aviation about a very nice fully optioned RV4 that
had a halon system installed in the cabin (late 1994 I think). Halon is now
unavailable in Australia due to environmental laws, I would be interested to
hear of alternative systems people have used.
Leo Davies,
RV6A.
>In the last Sport Aviation there is an article by Tony B. that shows a
>picture of his RV-3 with a fire extinguisher system installed. This looks
>like a good thing that we all probably overlook or leave out. Let's visit
>this idea.
>Most race cars have some type system that pipes "halon" gas to vital trouble
>spots. i seems this could be done with alum. tubing to the carb.,rear case,
>battery without a great expense. Any thoughts or have you seen such a
>system. I wrote Tony for details.
> One thing that started this was my A&P was somewhat upset over the
>fuel boost pump location on my RV-4. (Under the front console as shown in
>the plans)
>Anybody find a different location that works better, both from saftey and
>mechanics?
>David Cahoon - Arkansas - Fininshing up canopy
>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com
>David Cahoon ( )
>Jonesboro, Arkansas ( ) ) ^^
>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com ( ) )^^
> (____________) ___________
> |
>
\______________________(*)_____________________/
> 0
> Memphis Soaring Society
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
>Well, I knew it was just a matter of time but it looks like I screwed up pretty
>bad. While dimpling for the VS skin for the forward spar using a C-frame tool,
>between hammer blows the skin lifted and the next blow put a nice new dimpled
>hole just next to the real one. I am now wondering should I just join the DIA
>club and order a new skin or try to salvage this one, here are my concerns that
>I hope some of you can give me your opinion of:
>
>- I believe that filling the hole with microballoons would cover things
>cosmetically but the two holes are touching each other, that is it's really
only
>one big goofy looking hole. I re-dimpled the real hole and doing that flattened
>the unwanted holes dimple. With a rivet in the real hole it still looks like it
>would be ok cosmetically with ballons but I'm worried about the rivet not
>holding very well with a incomplete hole.
>
>- If I do just suck it up and order a new skin, how am I going to make sure I
>can final drill the holes accuratelly to the skeleton that I have that's
already
>dimpled?
>
>Are there option any of you know of that I don't. Perhaps covering both of
these
>holes with ballons and drilling a third close by for a real rivet? Just what I
>want is another hole, but that's probably the best thing structurally.
>
>
> Greg Puckett
> RV-8 sn 80081
>
>
>
>
Greg,
Put in an extra rivet between the goof and the next planned rivet (both
sides) Then just smooth off your new lightning hole. If you replace every
skin you make a blemish in you will enrich Alcoa beyond their wildest dreams.
Leo
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal & Suzanne Smith <smithhm(at)phoenix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Screwed up VS |
> Greg Puckett
> RV-8 sn 80081
Greg, I to dimpled the skin next to the actual hole. I called Van's
about it and they said "not to worry". When you get ready to prime
the piece just fix the hole first. We all seem to goof at times. We
just hope it is recoverable.
Hal Smith (Riviting the wing spars)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Hi Leo,
Actually you can get a special dispensation for the use of Halon Fire
extinguisher's in Australia. I received a letter from the Lands and
Environment department asking if I wanted to register a Halon extinguisher
for use in my Jodel D11. I can get you the address if your interested.
BTW I will give you a call tonight about that jig. I would like to take you
up on your offer. I will probably Beg/Steal/hire a car trailer to pick it up.
Regards
John Morrissey
>David,
>This is of great interest. Fire is the nightmare in a forced landing. There
>was an article in Sports Aviation about a very nice fully optioned RV4 that
>had a halon system installed in the cabin (late 1994 I think). Halon is now
>unavailable in Australia due to environmental laws, I would be interested to
>hear of alternative systems people have used.
>
>Leo Davies,
>RV6A.
>>In the last Sport Aviation there is an article by Tony B. that shows a
>>picture of his RV-3 with a fire extinguisher system installed. This looks
>>like a good thing that we all probably overlook or leave out. Let's visit
>>this idea.
>>Most race cars have some type system that pipes "halon" gas to vital trouble
>>spots. i seems this could be done with alum. tubing to the carb.,rear case,
>>battery without a great expense. Any thoughts or have you seen such a
>>system. I wrote Tony for details.
>> One thing that started this was my A&P was somewhat upset over the
>>fuel boost pump location on my RV-4. (Under the front console as shown in
>>the plans)
>>Anybody find a different location that works better, both from saftey and
>>mechanics?
>>David Cahoon - Arkansas - Fininshing up canopy
>>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com
>>David Cahoon ( )
>>Jonesboro, Arkansas ( ) ) ^^
>>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com ( ) )^^
>> (____________) ___________
>> |
>>
>\______________________(*)_____________________/
>> 0
>> Memphis Soaring Society
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
Wait a minute Rusty - isn't that why we're building an RV in the first
place?
So noboby CAN run up our tail? Personally, I'm getting tired of being
passed by birds in a Cessna.
The bird in the Cessna, did he have a smile on?
Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Hi all
I would like to purchase a hand held com/vor for my RV-4. I have a terra com now
and it is almost always Ok but I would like a backup
I need advice on which ones are reliable,and cheap or course, and what options
should I buy. Thanks in advance,
Tom Martin
RV-4 the RaVen
130 hours and climbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Harris <mharris(at)mail.microsys.net> |
| Subject: | Another screwed up VS. |
Hi all.
I am working on the VS - I have assembled the entire skeleton and was
getting ready to rivet on the skin (I have pre-drilled pilot holes per the
Orndorf video...).
Unfortunately, I noticed that I measured the VS 406 angle incorrectly - I
measured the 1 1/2" offset from a vertical from a line drawn on the wrong
side of the VS406.
As consequence, the end rib is not at the correct angle - it's closer to
vertical than it should be.
Another problem is that I've already pilot drilled the skin which of course
conforms to the incorrect angles.
I have left it as it is - I have to decide how much to rebuild - or is it
feasible to use it as it is?
Any advice appreciated...
Despondently yours,
MIKE HARRIS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< hat brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why. They told me that
those saws could not be used to cut aluminum. They were made for wood only.
They recommended that I purhcase the heavy metal shop version, $300 and
up.
I used the hollow ground planer blade and my table saw. I still think the
typical inexpensive woodshop band saw would have done the job if I had
ordered the blades special made. Has anyone tried that? >>
Actually, reg'lar old wood cutting blades work fine. Aluminum is a very soft
metal and is only slightly tougher to cut. I'm using a cheapie bandsaw and
I've gone through about 5 blades at $7 each. Not too bad. Just DON'T use it
on steel. It won't cut, and it's time to buy a new blade.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | pro-sealed joints |
I have read comments on the list to the extent that Pro-seal produces a
weaker joint than a plain riveted seam (? because of greater distance
between the surfaces).
Well it may be so but I would want to see the data.
I discovered last weekend that I had installed my firewall recess upside
down (ie boxy part at the top). I bit the bullet and removed it. During
installation I had put a pro-seal bead underneath the flange to fume proof
the joint. I am here to tell you that with all rivets drilled and punched
out that joint was still a structural entity. It took me an hour and a half
with a chisel and pliers.....lift the seam for a millimetre, bend away
flange, lift, bend etc...... to get that damn recess off.
I would cheerfully do aerobatics in a plane built with pro-seal and no
rivets. I would build bridges with pro-seal. If they'd pro-sealed that O
ring in place the Challenger would still be with us......etc
Yours,
waiting for a new piece of SS for a new recess,
Leo Davies
6A, out of the jig, big hole in the firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)egyptian.net (Abby Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing - order of build |
>I am looking for input on the following issue.
>
>The Frank Justice supplements do not have you skin the leading edge until
>later in the whole process. He has you do the ribs and aligned everything
>but then has you do the Ailerons. George Orndorff builds the ribs, skins the
>leading edge and then the tank. How have others done this and which way
>worked better for you?
>
>
>Any and all opinions would be appreciated.
>
>
>Thanks
>RV6 left wing
>Rick 74774.54(at)compuserve.com
I followed Georges video without any problems, in fact I've followed his
empennage, wing and now fuselage videos. I also use Frank's written text
for more detailed information. Between the two and the construction manuel
and this list, combined with brain power you should get the job done.
Stick to the basics, you'll have edge distance problems, dimpling and
countersinking problems and lots of other problems but remember, always
take the big problems and make little ones out of them, then solve the
little problems and the big ones will take care of themselves.
chet razer: still haven't seen a 6A in real life.
Abby Razer
e-mail: crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EPTS72A(at)prodigy.com (MR HAROLD J DOWNES) |
I have used a Sears $139 bandsaw with metal cutting blades to do all
my aluminum cutting. The blades are available from the Sear catalog
and seem to work fairly well if you don't force the saw too much on
thick stuff.
Hal N969HD RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
IMNSHO get the Bendix-King KX-99 handheld. Discount shops have for around
$500. It comes with Ni-Cd battery pack, is rugged, has good key action, has
OBS and has NOAA weather channels to boot. TX, RX and VOR are solid and
reliable.
Make sure you get the adapter cable assy for your headset (in case your panel
mount comm goes belly up) and the optional Alkaline Battery Pack.
Further, I find that a cable from cigarette lighter to 12V input is handy to
have in order to maintain charge during long flights between charging
opportunities. I have a fused aux 12V outlet on the plane.
N1GV
Vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Importance: normal
| Subject: | exhaust system for RV 4 |
| From: | Klaus Roth <rothk(at)oims.med.siemens.de> |
Because I have to add two additional mufflers, I can not use a 4 pipe
system for the RV 4.
I saw a cross over system in the Aircraft spruce catalog.
Does anyone know this system ??
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Klaus Roth
Germany
RV 4
klaus.roth(at)med.siemens.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Downloading RV-archive digest |
unsuscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: exhaust system for RV 4 |
>Because I have to add two additional mufflers, I can not use a 4 pipe
> system for the RV 4.
>
>I saw a cross over system in the Aircraft spruce catalog.
>
>Does anyone know this system ??
>
>Any advise is greatly appreciated.
>
June 06, 1996 - June 17, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bn