RV-Archive.digest.vol-ge
January 10, 1999 - January 14, 1999
> be..
> Phil
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
>
> >
> > I am working on the fuel tanks and will have the right tank with the
> > inverted-flop tube. Watched George's video again to review the
> > installation of stand-off brackets and the little door on that
> > opens/closes during inverted flight. I'm confused about the operation
> > of the door. George says it closes during inverted flight to trap fuel
> > in the cell. Looks like the one in his video would open during inverted
> > flight and close during normal flight since it is hinged at the top. Is
> > this correct?????
> >
> > Also, the 1 1/2" fuel transfer hole(in the video on same rib with little
> > door) that is located in the middle of the lightning hole area has
> > several smaller holes drilled around it. Is this necessary for more
> > fuel transfer?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
Phil,
Thanks. I found the diagram earlier today and cleared up my
misconception. My trap door is built and clecoed on as we speak. I had
looked all over the plans and didn't see how to do it. Goes to show
you, when all else fails, read the manual!
Thanks again,
Jerry "read'n the manual" Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Weldment |
Marty Sailer wrote
> > Plan 59 indicates that the foward brace is attached to the shorteron (as GV
> >would describe it :-) with 100 degree CS AN509 bolts. My question is;
> >do these holes need to be countersunk or can we use standard AN bolts...
To answer several posts-we decided to countersink these bolts as Scott
recomended. The foward brace would have required a 1/8 in. shim, so
without the side skin on, we put a 2 by 4 across the outside heated the
brace and used a clamp to draw in the brace. After it cooled it was
perfect.
I have a QB and haven't installed the wings or made a false spar of the
proper thickness to check the brace. Thanks for the replies.
Marty (installing brakes)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover question |
Just visited a fellow here in the northwest who is about two weeks away
from flying his beautifully finished RV-8, and I asked him the same
question. He said use fuel lube between the cork gasket, as has already
been suggested, but dip the screw threads in proseal, as the main problem
seems to be fuel leaking around the threads. If you have a QB like me,
you'll have to borrow some of that sticky black stuff from someone.
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q just finished right elevator, QB kit in the shop
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8: QB Wing questions & quick compressor question |
>>1. Do I need a wing jig just to get the top skins on?
-
No you don't.
-
>>2. Is it possible to install the DW landing/taxi lights
>> in the QB wings...
-
With no problem at all.
-
>
>I used the uprights from my empennage and used a couple steel angle
>standoffs for the wings. It sure made it easy for flap and aileron
>fitting. I can't imaging trying to drill or rivet that last skin with
>it down on a table - it seems like it would be very hard to reach. I
>also installed the DuckWorks landing light in the left wing, and
>installed the Gretz heated pitot tube. I then moved the tie-down ring
>out one bay so the tie-down line wouldn't foul on the pitot tube.
>
I am pretty sure that the location on the plans will prevent an
interference with the tie down rope/chain. Did you put your optional
pitot in the location specified on the plans? I specified the location
myself to try and prevent this problem.
Those of you with completed RV-8's. Did you use the plans specified
location for the pitot, and if so is their a problem with tie down
interference? Their hasn't been with the company prototypes.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel( -6a) |
>I am working on the fuel tanks and will have the right tank with the
>inverted-flop tube. Watched George's video again to review the
>installation of stand-off brackets and the little door on that
>opens/closes during inverted flight. I'm confused about the operation
>of the door. George says it closes during inverted flight to trap
>fuel
>in the cell. Looks like the one in his video would open during
>inverted
>flight and close during normal flight since it is hinged at the top.
>Is
>this correct?????
>
This door is really to stop fuel from flowing out of the rib bay when in
the knife edge attitude. Once you are inverted the hole related to the
door is above the fuel level unless you are nearly 100% full in that
tank.
-
>Also, the 1 1/2" fuel transfer hole(in the video on same rib with
>little
>door) that is located in the middle of the lightning hole area has
>several smaller holes drilled around it. Is this necessary for more
>fuel transfer?
>
The extra holes were probably for a patch that gets riveted over the hole
(if you cut the hole before you knew it wasn't needed.
If you are using a flop tube you want to detain fuel in that rib bay for
as long as possible in attitudes other than level flight.
So you should only have the lower aft hole with the trap door.
The only draw back to this is that it slows down fuel going into this bay
during fueling which makes it take a little longer.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "EXPERIMENTAL' label |
What stickers and labels are required for the final inspection? For
example, if 'experimental' is required, then what is the minimum size?
How about the sticker about Passenger Warning? Are there any other
required ones? And finally, can the data plate, which I assume is
required, be under the canopy(mounted on the turtledeck) as long as its
in full view? Or does it have to be under the tail on the fuse? Thanks.
RV-8
Von Alexander(Priming and Painting)
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Liebermann" <eliebermann(at)monmouth.com> |
| Subject: | Help a fellow aviator! |
I know this is not an RV topic but I am trying to help a fellow aviator who
helped me build my RV-6A.
My friend, Cedric, from Norway graduated NAIA (in SC) with a CFII/MEI
ratings (Certified flight instuctor for private, IFR, and multi-engine
ratings). He currently has 450 hours, 200 of which he picked up instructing
in New Jersey. He is looking for a flight instructor's job somewhere on the
east coast. Can you help?
Please e-mail off the list to eliebermann(at)monmouth.com
Thank You - Eli Liebermann, RV-6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Read this if you have a new Lycoming! |
| From: | rv6a(at)Juno.com (Paul A. Rosales) |
>.... If you are using a FP prop, the oil line is removed and the
entrance hole plugged.... If both plugs are still installed and the rear
plug is intact, pressure will build and the front plug will blow out
leaving you with a miserable day....
>
>Gary Zilik
>6A s/n 22993
>
I haven't called Lycoming for SB1435 (yet) on this topic but what is the
purpose of the oil line that runs along the outside of the motor? Is
this an oil return line? If so, why pull it off, plug both ends and poke
a hole in the inner crankshaft plug? Lycoming included an extra front
plug in my engine packet but no SB1435. 'Tony Bingelis On Engines' book
gives directions with pictures on how to convert from C/S to FP by
'poking the hole'. My Tech Counselor with 850+hours on his fixed pitch,
O-360 BD-4 tells me to bolt the prop on and fly (don't poke!?!).
Paul Rosales
Firwall Forward as of 1/1/99
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8: QB Wing questions & quick compressor question |
> >>I then moved the tie-down ring out one bay so
>>the tie-down line wouldn't foul on the pitot tube.
>I am pretty sure that the location on the plans
>will prevent an interference with the tie down
>rope/chain. Did you put your optional pitot
>in the location specified on the plans? I
>specified the location myself to try and
> prevent this problem.
Scott, I'm building a 6A, so *I* don't have a problem with the tie down
locations on an 8! ;)
I was just listing what I did to my QB wings while I had them hanging
vertically.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME Finishing Kit...
Pres/Newsletter Editor - Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Read this if you have a new Lycoming! |
The original bulletin related to corrosion occurring between the two
plugs due to trapped moisture. This resulted in a number of propellers
departing aircraft, usually between ten to fifteen years after last
overhaul.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
Date: 11-01-99 01:40
>.... If you are using a FP prop, the oil line is removed and the
entrance hole plugged.... If both plugs are still installed and the rear
plug is intact, pressure will build and the front plug will blow out
leaving you with a miserable day....
>
>Gary Zilik
>6A s/n 22993
>
I haven't called Lycoming for SB1435 (yet) on this topic but what is the
purpose of the oil line that runs along the outside of the motor? Is
this an oil return line? If so, why pull it off, plug both ends and poke
a hole in the inner crankshaft plug? Lycoming included an extra front
plug in my engine packet but no SB1435. 'Tony Bingelis On Engines' book
gives directions with pictures on how to convert from C/S to FP by
'poking the hole'. My Tech Counselor with 850+hours on his fixed pitch,
O-360 BD-4 tells me to bolt the prop on and fly (don't poke!?!).
Paul Rosales
Firwall Forward as of 1/1/99
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
> > Seems to be a common problem. The four mounts in the corners of my 6A
> > mount are in the same plane, but the middle two lower ones are about 3/16's
> > away from the firewall, which checks flat. I plan to just let the bolts
> > pull it in.
>
> Same here, but I made spacers to fill the gap. I preferred to install
> the spacers than tweak the mount or firewall.
>
Would it not be wise to bolt the engine mount to the firewall during the
initial fuselage assembly phase? (Assuming you have the mount at the
appropriate time.)
It does seem to be a good way to ensure the correct mating and I will
keep it in mind unless there is good reason not to do so.
Doug Gray
Flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compass;Necessary? |
Von, I believe a compass is one of the Required instruments and doubtful
you could pass inspection without one. My inspector required me to have
a whiskey compass and a correction card posted next to it. It did not
have to show any compass corections before inspection - it just had to
be there.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW Mazda Powered
Vienna, VA
do not archieve
n41va(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> In getting my RV-8 ready to be inspected, I would like to know if a
> compass will be required to pass inspection? I was planning on perhaps
> putting one in at a later time. Thanks.
> Von Alexander
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New RV-8 Emp Kit Owner |
Looks like you are where I was just a few short months ago. Congatulations
on getting started, although I think many on this list will sigh when they
see another primer thread get started. But I understand your concerns, so
let me just say that I am very happy using AS&S's spray can Zinc Chromate
at this stage. Sure it is not as economical as mixing your own and using a
sprayer, but it sure is convenient. You can prime a couple of pieces just
before riveting and then quickly touch up scratches you made while
riveting. I would definately invest in a respirator given the toxicity of
this stuff. You can buy a nice mask and filter set at Home Depot for
around $30.
Have fun!
Peter Christensen
RV-6A, rudder, elevators -- still waiting on that 4" no-hole squeezer!
Marietta, GA
I sorted out the components for the rear spars for both the HS and the
VS. Those new powdercoated brackets were nice! I'm basically going to
tackle everything that can be done with a drill and squeezer. I can
head out to my (open) hangar and drag my compressor from storage when I
*must* use a rivet gun.
A couple of questions for the list:
*Any good aerosol can-type primers? I see that Aircraft Spruce sells
Zinc Chromate/Oxide primers "in a can" - any comments on the viability
of these? I hate the thought of painting all this stuff with a gun, but
if I have to, I will.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Weldment |
Mary, if you use Van's stock wing fairing, it will not cover the forward
most bolt holding the gear fitting to side of fuselage (at least if
your' ends up where mind did). Also, you may find the bolt heads
interferring with the rubber channel that goes from the wing fairing to
the fuselage.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW Mazda Powered
do not archieve
Marty Sailer wrote:
>
>
> A friend and I are both building RV-6A's. We have his fuselage in the
> jig, with the wings on, fitting the landing gear weldments. Plan 59
> indicates that the foward brace is attached to the shorteron (as GV
> would describe it :-) with 100 degree CS AN509 bolts. My question is;
> do these holes need to be countersunk or can we use standard AN bolts.
> Although the wing angles have not been set, it appears that these bolts
> will be covered with the wing fairing with room to spare
>
> Thanks, Marty Sailer
> Near Doylestown Pa.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank access cover question |
Listers,
I just pulled my right wing tank (after over five years of flying) to
re-seal those same screws! I used proseal this time.... They had started to
leak enough that a blue stain was beginning to appear on the bottom of the
wing. No measurable amount of leakage, but just one of those little problems
that need attention.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: B&S Eckstein [SMTP:eckstein@net-link.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 2:19 AM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank access cover question
>
>
> For what it's worth, when I mount the wings to the fuselage, I intend to
> remove the fuel lube I put there and replace it with proseal as a gasket
> and under each screw. Who wants a gas leak?!
>
> Brian Eckstein
> 6A fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Glenn,
Consider extending the canopy release downward to the lower edge of
the panel behind the instrument panel. The pull knob is then not located
in the valuable instrument panel space......
The radio stack must be located to the right of this mechanism
anyway, and will extend through the panel behind the instrument
panel.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: G & J [SMTP:glenng(at)megsinet.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:57 AM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6 TU
>
>
> Hi,
>
> RE: RV-6 Tip-Up Instl Panel.
>
>
> How deep are typical radios?
> Is it likely that they will need to pass through the instrument sub
> panel?
> If so, are they going to interfere with the canpoy release mechanism?
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
>
> -----
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> -----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Glenn,
Your radios and most of your gyros will stick through the sub-panel, it takes
some planning to get it right -especially if you leave the canopy eject
mechanism installed.
Some people do not install the eject mechanism, I did it with minimal
interference to the panel layout. You can get a standard T layout if you play
your cards right. I can e-mail you a photo of my panel if you like.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
RV-6 N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor question |
Putting a "muffler" on the intake will make it much quieter also.
-----Original Message-----
From: John A Myrick III <tmyrick(at)Juno.com>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Compressor question
>
>>>3. Is there such a thing as a "quiet" compressor?
>>
>>Yes. Check the archives. Oil-free compressors will wake the dead.
>>Get
>>a nice cast iron belt-driven compressor with an oil bath and it will
>>be
>>*substantially* quieter.
>>
>>
>>Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
>>RV-6AQME Finishing Kit...
>>Pres/Newsletter Editor - Bay Area RVators
>>http://www.skybound.com/BARV
>>http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
>>
>Mitch,
>
>I bought a 3 1/2 hp Quincy compressor from Harbor Freight. It is an
>oiled compressor with a belt driven cast iron pump. The quality of this
>compressor is exceptional and much quieter than the oil-less compressors.
> It cost a little more at $369 but well worth it.
>
>Tripp Myrick
>RV8 #85 - Wings
>tmyrick(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carbide countersinks from MSC was Type "S" cowl |
Scott & Listers,
Ooops! Call out the spelling police!!! A felony has been commited!!
Gads, a typo, how humiliating. :-(
I was referring to MSC
Their phone number is 1(800)645-7270 I believe they are listed in the
Yeller Pages.
Check out their web site at: http://www.mscdirect.com/
Sorry for the confusion
Charlie Kuss
RV8 wings
Boca Raton, Fl.
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I haven't done much shopping for aircraft tools lately...
>
> What company is MSD? Do you have a phone number for them?
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
> >Scott,
> >I recently purchased countersink cutters from MSD at their Pompano
> >Beach, Florida store. The clerk had a difficult time finding piloted
> >cutters in the #30 & #40 sizes till he looked in the 96/97 catalog.
> >(He
> >said he knows that catolog backwards and forward).
> >I just looked them up in my 96/97 MSD catalog. They are found on page
> >132.
> >
> >PART NUMBER
> DESCRIPITION COST
> >IN 96/97 CATALOG
> >60320033 #30 HSS piloted countersink 100
> degree $8.01
> >60320017 #40 " " " "
> >" $8.01
> >60315017 #40 Solid carbide piloted countersink 100
> >degree $40.86
> >60315033 #30 " " " " "
> >" $40.86
> >
> >They also carry both styles in the #21 and #10 sizes as well. For the
> >carbide cutters to be cost effective, they will have to last at least
> >6
> >times as long as the high speed steel variety, which they usually will
> >(and then some). These C/Ss have 4 cutting edges on them, so slow
> >speeds
> >are recommended to prevent chattering. Hope this helps
> >Charlie Kuss
> >RV8 wings
> >Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kits for sale |
Guys,
I have the following kits for sale for other people, if you are interested
in them please call me at 817-439-3280..... George Orndorff
rv6 empenage completed with a wing kit prepunched not started (selling
due to illness)
rv6 empenage half done with wing kit non prepunched and phog. sparr not
started (selling due to alot of things)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL' label |
>
>What stickers and labels are required for the final inspection? For
>example, if 'experimental' is required, then what is the minimum size?
>How about the sticker about Passenger Warning? Are there any other
>required ones? And finally, can the data plate, which I assume is
>required, be under the canopy(mounted on the turtledeck) as long as its
>in full view? Or does it have to be under the tail on the fuse? Thanks.
>
>RV-8
>Von Alexander(Priming and Painting)
>N41VA(at)juno.com
I think they may have changed the rules since I built my RV-6 but, at
that time, the Data Plate had to be placed on the tail in a position
visible from the ground.
Reading that and not wanting the plate to mar the paint scheme I
placed the plate on the bottom of the tail right in front of the tail
spring.
I think they have since changed the rules to read visible to someone
standing on the ground.
My plane was used by the head FAA inspector for an EAA demo of how to
inspect an experimental plane during the Arlington Airfair. He had to
lay on his back and worm his under the plane to see the plate. He did
pass it though.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
Doug Gray wrote:
>
>
> > > Seems to be a common problem. The four mounts in the corners of my 6A
> > > mount are in the same plane, but the middle two lower ones are about 3/16's
> > > away from the firewall, which checks flat. I plan to just let the bolts
> > > pull it in.
> >
> > Same here, but I made spacers to fill the gap. I preferred to install
> > the spacers than tweak the mount or firewall.
> >
>
> Would it not be wise to bolt the engine mount to the firewall during the
> initial fuselage assembly phase? (Assuming you have the mount at the
> appropriate time.)
>
> It does seem to be a good way to ensure the correct mating and I will
> keep it in mind unless there is good reason not to do so.
>
> Doug Gray
> Flaps
Doug,
The mount is shipped with the Finish Kit.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
Tim,
I dimple anything from .032 down (thinner). The plate nuts should fit
pretty flush with the skin even with the dimple.
Regards,
Bob RV8 #423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Russell,
I have a 13B flying in an RV-6A, N494BW, with 15 hours flying time.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Hi Mark,
Will have to look up part numbers, can tell you they are Stainless
Steel Bolra make. Two attachment points, one front one rear. Attachment
point made out of aluminum "C" channel, the web of the channel mounts to
fuselage with the 1 1/2" legs of the channel holding off the inlet and
exit pipes of muffler. 1 1/2" wide Stainless steel strap wraps from one
leg of channel around pipe to opposite leg and on the front brackets are
riveted. Back set of brackets have stainless steel strap retained on
one leg of channel with four 8-32 screws (so mufflers can be removed).
I use two standard aircraft exhaust balls to aline exhaust pipe with
mufflers. I also have rubber sheet of muffler rubber between back of
aluminum and fuselage. Fuselage has reinforcement brackets near battery
box and rear of main spar.
As far as the viberation on start up and shut down - there is
essentially none, or very little, compared to Lycoming as this is a
Mazda power plant.
If anyone is interested in photo of installation look at:
www.flash.net/donmack/ under 13B installation. If interested in a CAD
drawing contact me off the list.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Mazda Powered
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Vienna, VA
do not archieve
Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << In any case, to minimize the noise in the cockpit I mounted two 3 " dia
> stainless steel, 36" long mufflers under the fuselage in back of the lower
> cowl
> opening. Reinforced the floor for the attachment fittings. These mufflers
> not
> only reduce overall intensity of the exhaust sound, but dump the exhaust
> impulse
> behind the seats rather than in front. The overall additional weight for the
> two
> mufflers (one would probably have sufficed) was 16lbs. >>
>
> Let's have some part numbers! Construction and installation details! How did
> you deal with the shaking on start-up & shut down? Maybe we can inspect these
> and come up with a lighter version for these little speed machines we fly...
> I'd use 'em!
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
> +-- --+
> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com |
> | ---
|
> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com"
|
> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or subject.
|
> | ---
|
> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup posting!
|
> +-- --+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL' label |
Von,
I believe you will find the data plate can go anywhere it can
be readily seen. You are required to have a metal id plate
on the aft fuselage showing the A/C model and S/N. The
reason being to have something that will identify the airplane
and survive a crash or fire.
The Experimental placard is to be visible for either occupant.
The letters for the Long experimental placard are to be 2 inches
in height.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
I would think the spacers would change the engine incidence.
The mount is probably warped from the welding process but the lengths of the
mount legs haven't changed. These lengths determine the engine location not
a little warping.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mount/firewall not flush?
>
>> > Seems to be a common problem. The four mounts in the corners of my 6A
>> > mount are in the same plane, but the middle two lower ones are about
3/16's
>> > away from the firewall, which checks flat. I plan to just let the
bolts
>> > pull it in.
>>
>> Same here, but I made spacers to fill the gap. I preferred to install
>> the spacers than tweak the mount or firewall.
>>
>
>Would it not be wise to bolt the engine mount to the firewall during the
>initial fuselage assembly phase? (Assuming you have the mount at the
>appropriate time.)
>
>It does seem to be a good way to ensure the correct mating and I will
>keep it in mind unless there is good reason not to do so.
>
>Doug Gray
>Flaps
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
The correct address for my web page that Ed list's below is:
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
Don Mack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Anderson Ed
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 10:25 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV mufflers
>
>
>
> Hi Mark,
> Will have to look up part numbers, can tell you they
> are Stainless
> Steel Bolra make. Two attachment points, one front one rear.
> Attachment
> point made out of aluminum "C" channel, the web of the
> channel mounts to
> fuselage with the 1 1/2" legs of the channel holding off the inlet and
> exit pipes of muffler. 1 1/2" wide Stainless steel strap
> wraps from one
> leg of channel around pipe to opposite leg and on the front
> brackets are
> riveted. Back set of brackets have stainless steel strap retained on
> one leg of channel with four 8-32 screws (so mufflers can be removed).
>
> I use two standard aircraft exhaust balls to aline exhaust pipe with
> mufflers. I also have rubber sheet of muffler rubber between back of
> aluminum and fuselage. Fuselage has reinforcement brackets
> near battery
> box and rear of main spar.
>
> As far as the viberation on start up and shut down - there is
> essentially none, or very little, compared to Lycoming as this is a
> Mazda power plant.
>
> If anyone is interested in photo of installation look at:
>
> www.flash.net/donmack/ under 13B installation. If interested in a CAD
> drawing contact me off the list.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A Mazda Powered
> anderson_ed(at)bah.com
> Vienna, VA
>
do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
The correct address for my web page that Ed list's below is:
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
Don Mack
Don Mack
>
>
> Hi Mark,
> Will have to look up part numbers, can tell you they
> are Stainless
> Steel Bolra make. Two attachment points, one front one rear.
> Attachment
> point made out of aluminum "C" channel, the web of the
> channel mounts to
> fuselage with the 1 1/2" legs of the channel holding off the inlet and
> exit pipes of muffler. 1 1/2" wide Stainless steel strap
> wraps from one
> leg of channel around pipe to opposite leg and on the front
> brackets are
> riveted. Back set of brackets have stainless steel strap retained on
> one leg of channel with four 8-32 screws (so mufflers can be removed).
>
> I use two standard aircraft exhaust balls to aline exhaust pipe with
> mufflers. I also have rubber sheet of muffler rubber between back of
> aluminum and fuselage. Fuselage has reinforcement brackets
> near battery
> box and rear of main spar.
>
> As far as the viberation on start up and shut down - there is
> essentially none, or very little, compared to Lycoming as this is a
> Mazda power plant.
>
> If anyone is interested in photo of installation look at:
>
> www.flash.net/donmack/ under 13B installation. If interested in a CAD
> drawing contact me off the list.
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A Mazda Powered
> anderson_ed(at)bah.com
> Vienna, VA
>
do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
The correct address for my web page that Ed list's below is:
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
From there, Ed's page is the forth item on the list
>
> Don Mack
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> > Will have to look up part numbers, can tell you they
> > are Stainless
> > Steel Bolra make. Two attachment points, one front one rear.
> > Attachment
> > point made out of aluminum "C" channel, the web of the
> > channel mounts to
> > fuselage with the 1 1/2" legs of the channel holding off
> the inlet and
> > exit pipes of muffler. 1 1/2" wide Stainless steel strap
> > wraps from one
> > leg of channel around pipe to opposite leg and on the front
> > brackets are
> > riveted. Back set of brackets have stainless steel strap
> retained on
> > one leg of channel with four 8-32 screws (so mufflers can
> be removed).
> >
> > I use two standard aircraft exhaust balls to aline exhaust pipe with
> > mufflers. I also have rubber sheet of muffler rubber between back of
> > aluminum and fuselage. Fuselage has reinforcement brackets
> > near battery
> > box and rear of main spar.
> >
> > As far as the viberation on start up and shut down - there is
> > essentially none, or very little, compared to Lycoming as this is a
> > Mazda power plant.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in photo of installation look at:
> >
> > www.flash.net/donmack/ under 13B installation. If
> interested in a CAD
> > drawing contact me off the list.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> > RV-6A Mazda Powered
> > anderson_ed(at)bah.com
> > Vienna, VA
> >
do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Read this if you have a new Lycoming! |
I know that there is an AD on corrosion in Lycoming cranks but I was not
aware of any prop problems. As I understand the AD is was from two cases
found in England. Do you have any details or case numbers for these prop
problems?
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com via smtpd (for mail.matronics.com
[207.171.250.179]) with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 09 <":46:52.UT"@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 4:31 AM
Subject: Re[2]: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
mail.matronics.com [207.171.250.179]) with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 09:46:52 UT
>
> The original bulletin related to corrosion occurring between the two
> plugs due to trapped moisture. This resulted in a number of propellers
> departing aircraft, usually between ten to fifteen years after last
> overhaul.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
>Date: 11-01-99 01:40
>
>
>>.... If you are using a FP prop, the oil line is removed and the
>entrance hole plugged.... If both plugs are still installed and the rear
>plug is intact, pressure will build and the front plug will blow out
>leaving you with a miserable day....
>>
>>Gary Zilik
>>6A s/n 22993
>>
>I haven't called Lycoming for SB1435 (yet) on this topic but what is the
>purpose of the oil line that runs along the outside of the motor? Is
>this an oil return line? If so, why pull it off, plug both ends and poke
>a hole in the inner crankshaft plug? Lycoming included an extra front
>plug in my engine packet but no SB1435. 'Tony Bingelis On Engines' book
>gives directions with pictures on how to convert from C/S to FP by
>'poking the hole'. My Tech Counselor with 850+hours on his fixed pitch,
>O-360 BD-4 tells me to bolt the prop on and fly (don't poke!?!).
>
>Paul Rosales
>Firwall Forward as of 1/1/99
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)earthlink.net> |
I have seen several ads over the years for electric (or quartz) heaters
for aircraft cabins, but can't find anything current. The potential
advantage could be less "plumbing" that required by the usual heat muff
method, plus avoidance of carbon monoxide being piped into the cabin.
Does anyone know of any negatives to an electric cabin heater? Does
anyone know of a good source for electric heaters? Thanks.
Bill Thomas
-6A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR's New York State |
Ed Hasch inspected my Mazda Powered RV-6A at Manassas Regional Aiport,
Massassa, VA and I can certainly recommend Ed as an excellent and
thorough inspector. I am embarassed to mention how many items were on
my "punch" list when Ed finished, but of each and ever one - there was
no question (was not just a nitpick). Fortunately, they were all
fixable while Ed was present, and he permitted me to do that.
I highly recommend that ALL of your required paperwork including the
notorized forms be accomplished, complete and present. Also, all of
your required placards including type and quantity of oil and
gasoline,data plate, Experimental, etc. Also, I recommend you placard
your canopy jettison handle as well and have your tail number placard
someplace on your instrument panel. Also, have a compass correction card
posted near your Whiskey compass. All switches/circuit breakers need to
be labled.
Ed had previously build and flown and RV-6, so he knows the bird. Only
having been thru the process once, I don't have a reference for
comparison. However, I can assure you that it is a thorough inspection
and not a "quicky" and you will feel better after Ed catches those items
that you KNEW you had taken care of.
You will find Ed quite easy to work with and he will answer any of your
questions, but your bird and your paperwork does need to be complete and
ready.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW 15 hours
EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>
>
> I am a DAR assigned to the southern region, however, I do travel to
> other areas for airworthiness certification. I support the EAA mission.
> I can be contacted at res 615-824-4704 work 615-275-3418
> beeper 1-800-759-7243 pin # 78147.
>
> Ed Hasch
>
> +-- --+
> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com |
> | ---
|
> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com"
|
> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or subject.
|
> | ---
|
> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup posting!
|
> +-- --+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Sorry, Don - forgot the "~"
Ed
do not archieve
Mack, Don wrote:
>
>
> The correct address for my web page that Ed list's below is:
>
> http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
> Don Mack
> Don Mack
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> > Will have to look up part numbers, can tell you they
> > are Stainless
> > Steel Bolra make. Two attachment points, one front one rear.
> > Attachment
> > point made out of aluminum "C" channel, the web of the
> > channel mounts to
> > fuselage with the 1 1/2" legs of the channel holding off the inlet and
> > exit pipes of muffler. 1 1/2" wide Stainless steel strap
> > wraps from one
> > leg of channel around pipe to opposite leg and on the front
> > brackets are
> > riveted. Back set of brackets have stainless steel strap retained on
> > one leg of channel with four 8-32 screws (so mufflers can be removed).
> >
> > I use two standard aircraft exhaust balls to aline exhaust pipe with
> > mufflers. I also have rubber sheet of muffler rubber between back of
> > aluminum and fuselage. Fuselage has reinforcement brackets
> > near battery
> > box and rear of main spar.
> >
> > As far as the viberation on start up and shut down - there is
> > essentially none, or very little, compared to Lycoming as this is a
> > Mazda power plant.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in photo of installation look at:
> >
> > www.flash.net/donmack/ under 13B installation. If interested in a CAD
> > drawing contact me off the list.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> > RV-6A Mazda Powered
> > anderson_ed(at)bah.com
> > Vienna, VA
> >
> do not archieve
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
All gyros are not of the same length, the length can range from nearly
7" to as short as 5 1/2". I found the shorter ones would fit between my
instrument panel and bulkhead (RV-6A Tilt Canopy) with only the need to
cut a hole in the bulkhead to route the vacuum line and fitting. So,
depending on whether you have purchased yours or not you might one to
check that aspect of your gyros.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Tilt Canopy, Mazda Powered
RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Glenn,
>
> Your radios and most of your gyros will stick through the sub-panel, it takes
> some planning to get it right -especially if you leave the canopy eject
> mechanism installed.
> Some people do not install the eject mechanism, I did it with minimal
> interference to the panel layout. You can get a standard T layout if you play
> your cards right. I can e-mail you a photo of my panel if you like.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Mahoney
> RV-6 N747W
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Concerning the canopy jettison--yes I think you should have it and I think you
should intall the brackets for the struts with soft rivets if this is possible
on your setup. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater |
A local RV pilot used one of these quartz electric heaters in his RV-4
and said it was inadequate, even for the relatively moderate temps of the
NorthWest.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I have seen several ads over the years for electric (or quartz)
>heaters
>for aircraft cabins, but can't find anything current. The potential
>advantage could be less "plumbing" that required by the usual heat
>muff
>method, plus avoidance of carbon monoxide being piped into the cabin.
>Does anyone know of any negatives to an electric cabin heater? Does
>anyone know of a good source for electric heaters? Thanks.
>
>Bill Thomas
>-6A fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DAR's New York State |
Ed;
You refer to all required forms and 'notarized' forms. What forms are
required and especially, what forms are to be notarized?
Von Alexander(getting ready for inspection)
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Ed Hasch inspected my Mazda Powered RV-6A at Manassas Regional Aiport,
>Massassa, VA and I can certainly recommend Ed as an excellent and
>thorough inspector. I am embarassed to mention how many items were on
>my "punch" list when Ed finished, but of each and ever one - there was
>no question (was not just a nitpick). Fortunately, they were all
>fixable while Ed was present, and he permitted me to do that.
>
> I highly recommend that ALL of your required paperwork including the
>notorized forms be accomplished, complete and present. Also, all of
>your required placards including type and quantity of oil and
>gasoline,data plate, Experimental, etc. Also, I recommend you placard
>your canopy jettison handle as well and have your tail number placard
>someplace on your instrument panel. Also, have a compass correction
>card
>posted near your Whiskey compass. All switches/circuit breakers need
>to
>be labled.
>
> Ed had previously build and flown and RV-6, so he knows the bird.
>Only
>having been thru the process once, I don't have a reference for
>comparison. However, I can assure you that it is a thorough
>inspection
>and not a "quicky" and you will feel better after Ed catches those
>items
>that you KNEW you had taken care of.
>
> You will find Ed quite easy to work with and he will answer any of
>your
>questions, but your bird and your paperwork does need to be complete
>and
>ready.
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW 15 hours
>
>EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am a DAR assigned to the southern region, however, I do travel to
>> other areas for airworthiness certification. I support the EAA
>mission.
>> I can be contacted at res 615-824-4704 work 615-275-3418
>> beeper 1-800-759-7243 pin # 78147.
>>
>> Ed Hasch
>>
>> +--
> --+
>> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at
>http://www.matronics.com |
>> | ---
> |
>> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email
>"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
>> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or
>subject. |
>> | ---
> |
>> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup
>posting! |
>> +--
> --+
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR's New York State |
Von,
I am at work and don't have the list with me. But there are a number
of forms including one which does have to be notarized that basically
certifies under a Notary that you are the builder to the aircraft. I
will try to remember to bring the list of paper work. Also, there is
two FAA publications that lists the requirements for US airwothriness.
Get back to you tomorrow.
Ed Anderson
n41va(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Ed;
> You refer to all required forms and 'notarized' forms. What forms are
> required and especially, what forms are to be notarized?
> Von Alexander(getting ready for inspection)
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
> writes:
> >
> >Ed Hasch inspected my Mazda Powered RV-6A at Manassas Regional Aiport,
> >Massassa, VA and I can certainly recommend Ed as an excellent and
> >thorough inspector. I am embarassed to mention how many items were on
> >my "punch" list when Ed finished, but of each and ever one - there was
> >no question (was not just a nitpick). Fortunately, they were all
> >fixable while Ed was present, and he permitted me to do that.
> >
> > I highly recommend that ALL of your required paperwork including the
> >notorized forms be accomplished, complete and present. Also, all of
> >your required placards including type and quantity of oil and
> >gasoline,data plate, Experimental, etc. Also, I recommend you placard
> >your canopy jettison handle as well and have your tail number placard
> >someplace on your instrument panel. Also, have a compass correction
> >card
> >posted near your Whiskey compass. All switches/circuit breakers need
> >to
> >be labled.
> >
> > Ed had previously build and flown and RV-6, so he knows the bird.
> >Only
> >having been thru the process once, I don't have a reference for
> >comparison. However, I can assure you that it is a thorough
> >inspection
> >and not a "quicky" and you will feel better after Ed catches those
> >items
> >that you KNEW you had taken care of.
> >
> > You will find Ed quite easy to work with and he will answer any of
> >your
> >questions, but your bird and your paperwork does need to be complete
> >and
> >ready.
> >
> >Ed Anderson
> >RV-6A N494BW 15 hours
> >
> >EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I am a DAR assigned to the southern region, however, I do travel to
> >> other areas for airworthiness certification. I support the EAA
> >mission.
> >> I can be contacted at res 615-824-4704 work 615-275-3418
> >> beeper 1-800-759-7243 pin # 78147.
> >>
> >> Ed Hasch
> >>
> >> +--
> > --+
> >> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at
> >http://www.matronics.com |
> >> | ---
> > |
> >> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email
> >"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
> >> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or
> >subject. |
> >> | ---
> > |
> >> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup
> >posting! |
> >> +--
> > --+
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 flap hinge length? |
Dear listers, If I cut the flap hinge to the 55 and a half called for in the
plans it is not long enough to go from tip to spar. 56 and three quarters
would be more like it. Is the hinge supposed to cover the entire length of the
spar?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Engine questions |
After being on the list now for only a few months with some mixed feelings
because of the amount of time it takes to properly read and clear it
everyday, some of the snipeing that was on it (which thankfully has now
disapeared) and a lot of us making it tough for Matt to handle the shear
volume, the value of it was suddenly brought to my attention with the
outage that occurred last week.
What a shame it would be to loose this wonderful means of helping each
other and more importantly help prevent an incident or an accident. My top
priority through some fifty -five years of flying has been first safety and
second keeping the cost of operating an a/c as low as possible.
It is in this area that I thought maybe I could contribute something to the
list particularily in the engine and engine handeling department . I don't
consider myself an expert but could pass on some of the things that have
worked for me over the years. Also am only an hours drive away from Bart
Lalonde.
I would like to try taking the engine related questions from the list and
say once a week or every two weeks get together with Bart and get the
proper anwsers. Bart simply does not have time to be part of the list but
has the same interest in safety as myself. In a discussion with him last
week has agreeed to spend the time with me on this.
If the answer to your question is not already in the archives I would try
to get you the correct answer, If it something that is not of general
interest to the list you could contact me of the list, By taking
advantage of the ability to leave it out of the achives we would not add to
this volume.
Would appreciate a few comments as to the value of this.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C
Do not Achive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
This will work so long as you know which engine mount to buy. Lycoming
engines come with conical mounts or two different kinds of dynafocal mounts.
Steve Soule
RV-6A
Fitting the HS I built in 1996 to the fuselage.
-----Original Message-----Would it not be wise to bolt the
engine mount to the firewall during the
initial fuselage assembly phase? (Assuming you have the
mount at the
appropriate time.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | new Lycoming engine possible problems |
EMBRY-RIDDLE'S CESSNA FLEET GROUNDED OVER THANKSGIVING
In late November, a 1998 Skyhawk belonging to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical
University made a precautionary landing at Deland, Fla., after its
engine developed severe in-flight vibration. The plane was one of 53
new Skyhawks operated by ERAU in Daytona Beach (15 '97 models and 38
'98s). The next day, a high level of aluminum showed up in the oil
analysis of another of ERAU's 1998 Skyhawks. ERAU pulled the cylinders
from both Lycoming IO-360s and found extreme piston pin plug wear. The
plane that put down at Deland also had a fractured piston. ERAU
grounded its entire 172R fleet and -- after consulting with Cessna and
Lycoming -- decided to pull all the cylinders on all 53 Skyhawks. This
revealed two more 1998 Skyhawk engines with piston pin plug wear serious
enough to warrant full teardowns. Lycoming elected to provide four
replacement engines under warranty.
...THE PLOT THICKENS
Inspection of the 34 other 1998 Skyhawks in the ERAU fleet revealed that
ALL had piston pin plug wear that ERAU mechanics considered abnormal.
ERAU decided to replace all 272 of the plugs with an older-style part,
and Lycoming agreed to furnish the replacement plugs under warranty.
Curiously, none of ERAU's fifteen 1997 Skyhawks showed abnormal wear,
nor did any of the eight 1998 Skyhawk SPs at ERAU's Prescott, Ariz.,
campus. The problem appeared to be confined to ERAU's 1998 Skyhawks,
and those 38 aircraft all had serial numbers within a 70-number range.
...LYCOMING HAS A DIFFERENT VIEW
Lycoming engineering guru Rick Moffett told AVweb that Lycoming has been
aware for some time of an increasing incidence of abnormal piston pin
plug wear across many different engine models, ranging from mild-
mannered O-320s to fire-breathing TIO-541s. The accelerated wear
appears to have started at least as early as 1996 and possibly even
1994, according to Lycoming data. Lycoming has a test program to
reproduce this problem, isolate its cause, and come up with a fix,
Moffett told us, but so far, there are lots of theories but no real
answers. Following the ERAU situation in November, Lycoming issued
Service Instruction 1492A urging operators to perform regular oil filter
inspections and spectrographic oil analysis, and to contact Lycoming if
either shows abnormally high aluminum or iron content.
...SOMETHING OLD, SOMETHING NEW
Piston pin plug wear has been a problem with Lycoming engines for
decades, but what used to be an infrequent problem now seems to be
occurring more frequently. But nobody's sure how much more frequently,
when the escalation began, or what's causing it. So far, Lycoming denies
having any evidence to suggest that the piston pin plug wear problem has
gotten much worse in 1998. But, we find the ERAU findings too
significant to ignore. Considering only the four trashed or
contaminated engines that Lycoming replaced under warranty, that's still
more than TEN PERCENT of ERAU's 1998 Cessna 172R fleet! So, why isn't
Lycoming, Cessna or the FAA looking at all of the non-ERAU Cessna 172Rs
within the 172806xx serial number block into which all 38 affected ERAU
Skyhawks fell? What about all of the other engines that came off
Lycoming's assembly line about the same time? Lycoming's answer is that
the filter inspections and oil analysis per S.I. 1492A will catch any
problems before they become serious. But, the entire ERAU fleet was on
a program of oil filter inspections and oil analysis, yet one of those
engines came apart in flight. That's not particularly reassuring.
...SO WHAT'S AN OWNER TO DO?
Until Lycoming comes up with an explanation and a fix, operators should
be alert to signs of increased aluminum or iron during oil filter
inspections and oil analysis, and those who have not been cutting open
filters or sending oil to the lab should start doing so. Certainly, if
we owned a Cessna 172R with a serial number in the 172806xx range, we'd
be mighty nervous right now. The same probably should apply to anyone
who took delivery of a new, reman, or factory-overhauled Lycoming engine
or who installed new Lycoming cylinder kits since about spring of 1998.
While AVweb is not suggesting that operators preemptively yank all
cylinders the way ERAU did, prudence certainly suggests keeping a
watchful eye on oil analysis and oil filter inspections -- and perhaps
even doubling the frequency of such inspections. At the first sign of
elevated aluminum or iron, a borescope inspection and a call to Textron
Lycoming Product Support at 1-570-323-6181 would certainly be in order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | New Lycoming engine possible problems |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
It was the two lower interior legs that were "short" on my mount (RV6).
I don't believe the addition of 1/8" spacers would change the engine
incidence.
If memory serves me fairly well, it seems there was a discussion of this
situation a while back; The overall opinion was that it is common for
the interior legs of the RV6 mount to be shy of the firewall, and
spacers are a common fix.
Sam Buchanan
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> I would think the spacers would change the engine incidence.
>
> The mount is probably warped from the welding process but the lengths of the
> mount legs haven't changed. These lengths determine the engine location not
> a little warping.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 5:52 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mount/firewall not flush?
>
> >
> >> > Seems to be a common problem. The four mounts in the corners of my 6A
> >> > mount are in the same plane, but the middle two lower ones are about
> 3/16's
> >> > away from the firewall, which checks flat. I plan to just let the
> bolts
> >> > pull it in.
> >>
> >> Same here, but I made spacers to fill the gap. I preferred to install
> >> the spacers than tweak the mount or firewall.
> >>
> >
> >Would it not be wise to bolt the engine mount to the firewall during the
> >initial fuselage assembly phase? (Assuming you have the mount at the
> >appropriate time.)
> >
> >It does seem to be a good way to ensure the correct mating and I will
> >keep it in mind unless there is good reason not to do so.
> >
> >Doug Gray
> >Flaps
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater |
If you take 40 amps as the output from your alternator and multiply by the
voltage of even 14 you only get 560 watts. That's not much wattage. Also, I
don't know if I would want to have a constant 40 amp load on the alternator.
There are larger alternators but you can quickly see that due to the low
voltage, one just doesn't get much heat. If you were running 28 volts, the
wattage doubles. The real problem is the aluminum frame makes a great
radiator at 150-200 miles per hour. Some of the glass and foam planes will
work with this system.
-----Original Message-----
From: n41va(at)Juno.com <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin Heater
>
>A local RV pilot used one of these quartz electric heaters in his RV-4
>and said it was inadequate, even for the relatively moderate temps of the
>NorthWest.
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>writes:
>>
>>I have seen several ads over the years for electric (or quartz)
>>heaters
>>for aircraft cabins, but can't find anything current. The potential
>>advantage could be less "plumbing" that required by the usual heat
>>muff
>>method, plus avoidance of carbon monoxide being piped into the cabin.
>>Does anyone know of any negatives to an electric cabin heater? Does
>>anyone know of a good source for electric heaters? Thanks.
>>
>>Bill Thomas
>>-6A fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Read this if you have a new Lycoming! |
In a message dated 1/11/99 1:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv6a(at)Juno.com
writes:
> I haven't called Lycoming for SB1435 (yet) on this topic but what is the
> purpose of the oil line that runs along the outside of the motor? Is
> this an oil return line? If so, why pull it off, plug both ends and poke
> a hole in the inner crankshaft plug? Lycoming included an extra front
> plug in my engine packet but no SB1435. 'Tony Bingelis On Engines' book
> gives directions with pictures on how to convert from C/S to FP by
> 'poking the hole'. My Tech Counselor with 850+hours on his fixed pitch,
> O-360 BD-4 tells me to bolt the prop on and fly (don't poke!?!).
>
> Paul Rosales
> Firwall Forward as of 1/1/99
Paul,
I believe that the oil line you're referring to is the oil supply line for
constant speed props. It runs from the Prop Governor mounting pad on the
accessory case to the front right hand side of the crankcase. With a fixed
pitch prop, you won't have a governor installed, but a blanking plate instead
(?). Maybe Mr. Bowhay could answer this: with the blanking plate installed on
the governor pad, can the front crankshaft area vent through this oil line and
governor drive pad? My own intuition says "no," but I don't know this to be
fact. When I bought my engine, the rear plug had been punctured, and I had to
replace it for use with a C/S prop. Removing it proved to be one difficult
task!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, OK
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Help a fellow aviator! |
Carolina Air Service, Florence SC has an opening for an instructor I think.
(843-667-9634)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric shipping time |
>Is my wait of nearly a month (and still no parts) the norm when ordering
>from The AeroElectric Connection?
>Sam Buchanan
Sam, I have ordered a few times and always received the parts within two
weeks or less. It might be the holiday season.
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine questions |
I would like to try taking the engine related questions from the list and
say once a week or every two weeks get together with Bart and get the
proper anwsers. Bart simply does not have time to be part of the list but
has the same interest in safety as myself. In a discussion with him last
week has agreeed to spend the time with me on this.
If the answer to your question is not already in the archives I would try
to get you the correct answer, If it something that is not of general
interest to the list you could contact me of the list, By taking
advantage of the ability to leave it out of the achives we would not add to
this volume.
Would appreciate a few comments as to the value of this<<
Eustace,
I for one think this would be fantastic and a huge help in steering the RV
List to a higher level of information exchange. We should all be thrilled
that you are willing to put in the effort.
I am buying an engine from Bart and took the time (and spent the money!) to
fly up there commercially last week to meet him, see the shop, and discuss
options for my engine. He is indeed a credible resource, I am VERY
comfortable having him build my engine. To have access to the collective
wisdom of both you and Bart would be a tremendous resource for us all.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fuselage
N558RL reserved
Camas, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
do i need to acid wash , alodine then rivit the spar together , and paint the
finished assembly, or clean and prime each part as per vans instrutions, then
rivit? do i really need the acid and alodine? please help.
tcrv6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL' label |
>
>What stickers and labels are required for the final inspection? For
>example, if 'experimental' is required, then what is the minimum size?
>How about the sticker about Passenger Warning? Are there any other
>required ones? And finally, can the data plate, which I assume is
>required, be under the canopy(mounted on the turtledeck) as long as its
>in full view? Or does it have to be under the tail on the fuse? Thanks.
>
>RV-8
>Von Alexander(Priming and Painting)
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
Von,
Go to Van's web page and click on Internet resources. One of
the links is to a guy who works for the FAA and he has pages of
inspection lists, regulations, etc. (Homebuilt FAQ) I found this last week and
found it very useful. Included is a sample inspection list that
he uses to inspect experimentals prior to issuing the special
airworthiness certificate. He has all the required placards
listed.
His direct URL is http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 Finishing Engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater |
>
>I have seen several ads over the years for electric (or quartz) heaters
>for aircraft cabins, but can't find anything current. The potential
>advantage could be less "plumbing" that required by the usual heat muff
>method, plus avoidance of carbon monoxide being piped into the cabin.
>Does anyone know of any negatives to an electric cabin heater? Does
>anyone know of a good source for electric heaters? Thanks.
>
>Bill Thomas
>-6A fuselage
>
Bill,
I used one of these in my Long-EZ in the late 80's. Paid over
$120 for it and it was a waste of money. The little heat it generates
is usually lost due to normal air leaks in the cabin. I've found that
you need plenty of heat coming in and these quartz heaters just can't
generate enough to be worth the cost IMHO.
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 Engine Install
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall Answers from Vans |
The word from Van's is, if you can bolt the other bolts in and push it in
with your hand, then you can bolt it. If it is much more load than that,
then use a spacer. The incidence is negligible and not significant enough
to worry about.
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Read this if you have a new Lycoming! |
The problems reported in the Australian AD requiring the modification,
related to the crank failing in service due to corrosion immediately
behind the driving flange resulting in the propeller departing the
airframe. This was not a propeller problem per say but and engine
structural failure. There is a company in Sydney modifying Lycomings
to avoid this by plasma coating a layer of stainless steel to the
inside of the crank as an alternative means of compliance and/or
repair of corrosion damage.
P.S. This is my last day on this job (Hooray! (its in the middle of
nowhere)) so don't expect a reply from this address.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
Date: 11-01-99 10:53
I know that there is an AD on corrosion in Lycoming cranks but I was not
aware of any prop problems. As I understand the AD is was from two cases
found in England. Do you have any details or case numbers for these prop
problems?
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com via smtpd (for mail.matronics.com
[207.171.250.179]) with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 09 <":46:52.UT"@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 4:31 AM
Subject: Re[2]: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
mail.matronics.com [207.171.250.179]) with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 09:46:52 UT
>
> The original bulletin related to corrosion occurring between the two
> plugs due to trapped moisture. This resulted in a number of propellers
> departing aircraft, usually between ten to fifteen years after last
> overhaul.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Read this if you have a new Lycoming!
>Date: 11-01-99 01:40
>
>
>>.... If you are using a FP prop, the oil line is removed and the
>entrance hole plugged.... If both plugs are still installed and the rear
>plug is intact, pressure will build and the front plug will blow out
>leaving you with a miserable day....
>>
>>Gary Zilik
>>6A s/n 22993
>>
>I haven't called Lycoming for SB1435 (yet) on this topic but what is the
>purpose of the oil line that runs along the outside of the motor? Is
>this an oil return line? If so, why pull it off, plug both ends and poke
>a hole in the inner crankshaft plug? Lycoming included an extra front
>plug in my engine packet but no SB1435. 'Tony Bingelis On Engines' book
>gives directions with pictures on how to convert from C/S to FP by
>'poking the hole'. My Tech Counselor with 850+hours on his fixed pitch,
>O-360 BD-4 tells me to bolt the prop on and fly (don't poke!?!).
>
>Paul Rosales
>Firwall Forward as of 1/1/99
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinsulate Acoustic Insulation |
>Thanks Dave...
>John
>
You bet! Try to help when I can, hope you get some response.
How were the Holidays? Hope all is well your way. We all drove up to
Michigan the week after x-mas to visit Beth's family. Long drive back
though, 10 hours on some pretty slippery roads. Haven't been flying much
due to the weather and holidays.
Stop by some time.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
| Subject: | Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
I'm in the process of installing the pivot brackets (F-444 & F-460) on the
firewall of my -4. The pivot holes on these brackets are not in the same
plane. There is a 9/16" offset. Van's tells me that this is the way they are
supposed to be, but nobody there can tell me why.
Have any of you -4 builders found any problems/concerns regarding installation
of these brackets?
Dean PIchon
Arlington, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire-Wound Pots |
>>Anyone have a source of old-fashioned wire-wound potentiometers (rehostats,
>>actually)? I am looking for some 10 ohm, 10 watt jobs for panel light
>>dimming. All I can find are the switching solid state dimmers and I
>>prefer the simple oldies.
>There is a simple and cost effective and better way with all parts available
>at Tandy Aerospace (Radio Shack). The components are, 2-1/4 watt pot, and a
>2N3055 transistor. Less than $5.00. The circuit is DC analog so no RF
>problems. If you want a schematic let me know.
Wirewound rheostats were dimmmers of choice back in the 60 . . . along
about 1967 the folks at Cessna put the first "amplified" dimmer controllers
in using the technique suggested above. Biggest problem was sthe
fragility of the system . . . the smallest short would instantly
fry the transistor and take the potentiometer with it. I did an
upgrade of the Beech dimmers for the Bonnanzas and Barrons about
1978 to provide short-circuit proof lamp dimmers.
In years since, adjustable voltage regulators like the LM317,
LM350 and LM338 make it easy to implement variable dimming controlers
like those in our website catalog. They use the same schematic
as the dimmer in my Sport Aviation Article for June 1993, page
50. When you build these critters, make sure you have enough
heatsink to carry off the excess energy. A dimmer dissipates
max watts at about half intensity on the lamps (6 volts out
to 14 volt lamps).
The 2N3055/cheap-pot combo will function . . . it STILL needs
a heatsink as large as the voltage regulator I.C. (watts is
watts is watts . . .) Given the advancements in component
technology and past history of the technique in certified
ships, I wouldn't recommend it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
>All gyros are not of the same length, the length can range from nearly
>7" to as short as 5 1/2". I found the shorter ones would fit between my
>instrument panel and bulkhead (RV-6A Tilt Canopy) with only the need to
>cut a hole in the bulkhead to route the vacuum line and fitting.
This is a very good point! Small holes are easier to make than large ones!
I had no knowledge of the different lengths, but thanks to a local IA, I
was informed of the shorter gyros. I ended up buying a rebuilt CG and
Horizon form Century Instruments at Sun 'N Fun. They now have 250+ hours on
them with no problems. The one thing I would not buy used again is the
compass. You don't save that much to begin with, and mine started leaking
fluid after about 50 hours.
Dave
RV-6A, Nashville
Dave Hudgins
RV-6A, Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
>I'm not an Electrical Engineer, but I would think that you could wire an
>LED to each circuit so that it would illuminate in the cockpit when a fuse
>blows. A small strip of LEDs wired in such a manner would take almost no
>panel space and still indicate which curcuit was cut out.
I have some builders who have taken the time an expense to
do this kind of thing but consider this? How many ways can
a gizmo or system fail that does NOT open the fuse or breaker.
For most of the electrowhizzies we fly with, failures that
do not pop breakers/fuses outnumber failures that DO by
at least 10:1 . . .
What is your first indication that a fuse or breaker MIGHT
be open? You probably flipped a switch or twisted a knob
and the expected result didn't happen. Now, you look to the
breaker panel . . . what can you deduce? If the breaker is
out the gizmo is shorted, if the breaker is not out, the
gizmo is not shorted . . . how useful is it to know this
in flight since in both cases the gizmo is dead.
Given the relative rarity of fuse/breaker popping, the
time and effort to activly "annunciate" the event may not
be well invested. How about spending same time and dollars
on trimming out the cockpit or installing something REALLY
useful like a goosneck map light?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6 wing spars |
-----Original Message-----
From: TCRV6(at)aol.com <TCRV6(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 1:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: rv-6 wing spars
>
>do i need to acid wash , alodine then rivit the spar together , and paint
the
>finished assembly, or clean and prime each part as per vans instrutions,
then
>rivit? do i really need the acid and alodine? please help.
YES, but first you want to clean all of your parts. I use a virgin wash
thinner. It removes all of the finger oil and felt pen marks. Primer is able
to adhere much better. If you don't prep your metal you will have corrosion
going on everywhere there's a scratch or chip. If you do prep properly, you
will not have any chips.
I live in the Pacific Northwest so I have completely prepped every piece
before riviting. It is not for peace of mind, it is to make the best
possible aircraft without regard to cost or building time.
Norman RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
I believe once you mount them and sit in the plane, they will be
at an angle which will allow your feet to rest on the pedals in a
natural postition, without doing the pigeon-toed shuffle. At
least, that's the case with my -4. Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
I am was about to install my electric fuel pump in the cockpit before the
gascolator which will be on the firewall. I talked to a aircraft mechanic
today and he stated that he never heard of the elect fuel pump installed in
line before the gascolator because he believes that one of the main reasons
for the gascolator is to catch dirt etc. before entering the elect fuel
pump. I have seen several pumps mounted in the cockpit!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
Dean,
They all come out like that. It angles the pedals inward somewhat.
It means the pivot point holes don't go thru at right angles.
A friend remedied this by using rod end bearings on the inboard
attach points. He is still building so I don't know how they will work
out. He just cut the tube and added the rodend bearings.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Aviation grade electronic supplies |
I've been corresponding via email with John Caldwell at AAMR/AirCore, a
supplier of aviation and marine electronic supplies. His service seemed
to me like something RVers would want to know about so I agreed to
forward his ad/offer to the RV-list. I am not affiliated with them in
any way nor did I get anything for doing this, I just thought it looked
like something that RV list members might want to know about. After
looking at their web site I wish I had known about them before I started
wiring my plane. :-(
Randall Henderson
------------- Begin Forwarded Message -------------
From: AAMRELECTR(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:30:35 EST
Subject: The Ad
We would like to offer the RV-List members a 30days/first order 10%
discount. In other words on their first order placed by or before Feb. 15,
1999. We will deduct 10% off the price of the goods ( Discounted amount does
not include shipping or taxes). We are AAMR/AirCore located in Seattle, WA.
Our On-Line Secure Order Site is at
http://members.aol.com/aamrelectr/index.html We are a distributor of Mil Spec
aircraft rated electrical connectors and related product. We sell in small
quanties and are aviation home builder friendly. Our office # is
206.242.2527,and we have a 24 hr. toll free fax/message line at 1.800.431.3789
When you place an order please be sure to ID yourself as an RV-List member in
the comments area of the order form and we'll deduct 10%.
John Caldwell @AAMR/AirCore
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6 wing spars |
TCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> do i need to acid wash , alodine then rivit the spar together , and paint the
> finished assembly, or clean and prime each part as per vans instrutions, then
> rivit? do i really need the acid and alodine? please help.
>
> tcrv6(at)aol.com
>
The spar should be primered unassembled and then assembled. You need
primer between the layers of metal. Whether you acid wash and alodine
depends on the primer system you use. Some primers are self-etching and
just need the surfaces cleaned with a recommended cleaner and then
primered. Others require just etching and still others requir etching
and alodining. I use a two-part epoxy primer(AKZO). It requires the
aluminum be etched, alodined, and then primered. The primer you choose
should tell you the requirements for prepping the metal. Check the
archives for primer information. It's full of it.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Placard |
>
>I'm building in Canada and we don't have the "Experimental" class. Instead
>Transport Canada (our FAA) calls kitplanes "Amateur Built".
Amateur built or Homebuilt.
When flying in Canada and calling a control tower call, ie; Kelowna tower ,
Homebuilt C-FKEH, I have been corrected a couple of time because I simply
said RV6 C-FKEH.
>Does anyone know what will happen when I fly down to the United States
>without an Experimental placard?
We are not required to show the Experimental label.
>Does anyone know any other things that Canadian kitplanes must comply with
>to fly in the United States?
Both Canadians and Americans must get special permission to fly in each
others countries. It is not difficult and does not cost anything.
To fly in the United States you need a" Special Flight Authorization"
available by writing to Aviation Safety Inspector,
1601 Lind Ave.S.W
Renton Wash, 98055-4056
They require copies of the following -Certificate of registration
-Special
certificate of airworthiness
-Copy of pilots
licence
-Licence validation
certificate, and a letter requesting permission to cross into the U.S. at a
specific customs crossing , where and how long you are to be gone. I
requested several crossing with info which was approved. I even once was
requested to fax several copies of my journey log. You will receive a
letter of permission which you keep in your log book. I have never been
asked to produce it Yet??
For U.S. pilots entering Canada,
Fax 604 666-6476 or phone 604 666-7477 for info
Attn: Continuing Airworthiness
include -Special airworthiness Certificate
-Experimental operating certificate
- Cof R
-Flight itinery
-Copy of pilots license
>How about general rules for crossing borders in kitplanes>
Once you have the certificate you preceed the same as you would in a
certified airplane. Note, that all aircraft entering the U.S. pay a $25.00
customs fee.(Only once per year in the case of multiple trips) There is no
charge for aircraft entering Canada
Hope this helps
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C. 38 degrees today,snow is melting fast, yippee!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Abby, Barb and Chet Razer" <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | 0360 piston pins |
I just read an article in the latest AVflash regarding the piston pin
problem in a bunch of new Cessna aircraft. It seems this problem has
the potential to spill over to the new 0360 engines from Vans. Im
wondering how many of you all out there who have new 0360 engines from
Vans and have been doing regular oil analysis have shown any of the
symptoms detailed in the AVflash 5.02 article.
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL' label |
>Par. 9.b.: The identification plate must be secured in sucj a manner that it
>will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or
>destroyed in an accident. Aircraft built and certificated after March 7, 1988,
>must have the identification plate located on the exterior either adjacent to
>and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage near the tail surfaces
>and must be legible to a person standing on the ground (reference FAR section
>45.11).
>
>Jack Abell
>Los Angeles
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
They added the part about "a person _standing_ on the ground" after
the Head FAA inspector had to crawl on his back under my RV-6 in front
of at least 100 people at the Arlington Airfair in 1990. He was
acting the part of the FAA inspector doing the final inspection on a
homebuilt aircraft.
He was a good sport about it but it was in the next year or two that
they changed the wording adding the word "standing".
That's my 15 minutes of fame and glory; I caused the FAA to change
their rules.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR's New York State |
Anderson Ed wrote:
>
>
> Von,
> I am at work and don't have the list with me. But there are a number
> of forms including one which does have to be notarized that basically
> certifies under a Notary that you are the builder to the aircraft. I
> will try to remember to bring the list of paper work. Also, there is
> two FAA publications that lists the requirements for US airwothriness.
> Get back to you tomorrow.
>
All the info and forms necessary for registering an RV are readily
available on the web at several sites. One of the sites with links to
this info is here:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/register.html
All RV builders need to have a copy of FAA Advisory Circular 20-27D
bookmarked or in their possession. Also highly recommended is Advisory
Circular 90-89A, Amateur-Built Aircraft & Ultralight Flight Testing
Handbook (link also on my site).
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://ww.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
The following excerpts are from January 8 issue of Flyer, received today:
Lawsuit claims RV-8 prototype was defective Vans Aircraft says widows
grievance is not meritorious
By Michael Sweeney
The RV-8 crash that left two people spawned a multimillion-dollar lawsuit
against Vans Aircraft and its owner, Richard VanGrunsven.
The federal civil suit was filed by Morgans widow, Sally, and their two
children. The three plaintiffs are each seeking $4 million in damages....
The suit offers no specifics to back its contentions that the airplane was
unsafe. Likewise, it cites no evidence to buttress its claims that the wing
spar fractured under normal operating conditions...
In its court filing responding to the suit, Vans blamed Morgan for the
crash and cited four possible pilot errors. They include mismanagement of
the planes speed and structural loading, operating the aircraft beyond its
structural limits, losing control of the aircraft, and operating the
plane --- or allowing Hull to operate it --- in an unsafe manner.
In the court papers, Vans also alleges that the accident resulted from a
sudden emergency or an act of God for which it should not be held
responsible...
Terry Watson
RV-8A
Wings due to ship any day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thinsulate Acoustic Insulation |
Dave
Well I Have gotten about 20 (give me info) messages so far...I was really
surprised about this because I have only received about one order in
the last 45 days...
I think it is because Vans is selling insulation in his cat...
I was j u s t about to give it up,if you know what I mean...
I'm still drilling fusl. skins..
Thanks
John
David Hudgins wrote:
>
> >Thanks Dave...
> >John
> >
>
> You bet! Try to help when I can, hope you get some response.
>
> How were the Holidays? Hope all is well your way. We all drove up to
> Michigan the week after x-mas to visit Beth's family. Long drive back
> though, 10 hours on some pretty slippery roads. Haven't been flying much
> due to the weather and holidays.
>
> Stop by some time.
>
> Dave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THEZING3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's lawsuit |
This is the first I'm hearing about this..Can someone please tell me what
happened???
Why is Van responsible and what can we do to help?
Stan Z.
THEZING3(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator-reply |
: RV-List: Gascolator
>
>I am was about to install my electric fuel pump in the cockpit before the
>gascolator which will be on the firewall. I talked to a aircraft mechanic
>today and he stated that he never heard of the elect fuel pump installed in
>line before the gascolator because he believes that one of the main reasons
>for the gascolator is to catch dirt etc. before entering the elect fuel
>pump. I have seen several pumps mounted in the cockpit!!!!!
>
Joseph, I agree with your mechanic. Originally I had plumbed my fuel system
as shown in the plans with the small automotive Facet pump upstream of the
gascolator and in-line with the engine driven pump. A piece of slosh from
my fuel tank came loose at about 400hrs and lodged in the electric pump on
take-off at 500' AGL. The engine quit suddenly but came back to life after
I lowered the nose and would run at a reduced power setting allowing me to
make a normal landing. While the use of slosh is not recommended anymore,
this incident supports your mechanic's point. I revised my fuel system by
locating an aircraft boost pump downstream of the gascolator and plumbing it
parallel with the engine driven pump as Piper does in the Cherokee series.
I have not had the problem since but still see an occasional fleck of slosh
in the gascolator. Not second-guessing Van's, just a personal experience.>
Martin Sutter RV6 N868CM 1,300 hrs>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Moe Colontonio wrote:
>
****snip****
>
> No, don't dimple the platenuts themselves. You countersink the skin above
> the platenut. MS1097 "cheater" rivets have a slightly smaller head, and are
> ideal for installing platenuts, as you will not have to c/s very far to get
> them flush.
>
>
****snip****
I am using the little "cheater" rivets on the plate nuts that mount on
the bottom wing skin joggle for the inspection cover. These heads are
real small and shallow and this allows you to take your hole deburring
tool and countersink the head even though the skin material is only
.025". Comes out real nice.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
I noticed that too and called Van's about it. I don't recall the
explanation, but it really is supposed to be that way. Just drill the holes
as called out, install the pedals, and they will work just fine.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST languishing in a COLD hangar
-----Original Message-----
From: pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 5:37 PM
Subject: RV-List: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4
>
>I'm in the process of installing the pivot brackets (F-444 & F-460) on the
>firewall of my -4. The pivot holes on these brackets are not in the same
>plane. There is a 9/16" offset. Van's tells me that this is the way they
are
>supposed to be, but nobody there can tell me why.
>
>Have any of you -4 builders found any problems/concerns regarding
installation
>of these brackets?
>
>Dean PIchon
>Arlington, MA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's lawsuit |
>
>This is the first I'm hearing about this..Can someone please tell me what
>happened???
>Why is Van responsible and what can we do to help?
Call your Senator and Congressman and tell them to Vote for tort reform!!!!!
Send them a check too. It helps.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I was afraid of this. Perhaps it is jumping the gun but we all have a vested
interest in seeing Vans remain a solvent entity. All you guys with partial
kits and those who plan to continue building other Vans aircraft in
particular, perhaps, it is time to consider planing a way to help by providing
REAL monetary contributions. I said begin to think about it not do it now as
Vans has said nothing and all this is new to most of us anyway. We should
stand by our friends. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vans lawsuit |
I'd say that you are right. Your reaction, though obviously motivated by good
intentions, IS jumping the gun. I can go to the courthouse and file a complaint
(lawsuit) against anyone for any amount I want and it will only cost me about
$100. It takes years for a case to finally get to trial (even IF it does). We'll
have plenty of time later to be concerned about this if things turn bad. Until
then, keep building and keep believing in Van. (That's my plan).
JRWillJR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I was afraid of this. Perhaps it is jumping the gun but we all have a vested
> interest in seeing Vans remain a solvent entity. All you guys with partial
> kits and those who plan to continue building other Vans aircraft in
> particular, perhaps, it is time to consider planing a way to help by providing
> REAL monetary contributions. I said begin to think about it not do it now as
> Vans has said nothing and all this is new to most of us anyway. We should
> stand by our friends. JR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vans lawsuit |
Guys
Unless Van is self insured, hehas an insurance company behind him, all he
does is turn it over to them. I ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: vans lawsuit |
Continued,
I can not see a man like Van building a company and being self insured. The
insurance company will pick up the ball and rn with it. If and when Van
requires help I am sure we will hear about it.
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
N929RV ( Reserved )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor question |
Cy, If you have an idea on how to construct an intake muffler for a direct
drive compressor, I and perhaps others on the list would be interested. I
like the idea but I'm concerned about having enough free air flow. Jeff
Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB next week??., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Compressor question
>
>Putting a "muffler" on the intake will make it much quieter also.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John A Myrick III <tmyrick(at)Juno.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:14 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Compressor question
>
>
>>
>>>>3. Is there such a thing as a "quiet" compressor?
>>>
>>>Yes. Check the archives. Oil-free compressors will wake the dead.
>>>Get
>>>a nice cast iron belt-driven compressor with an oil bath and it will
>>>be
>>>*substantially* quieter.
>>>
>>>
>>>Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
>>>RV-6AQME Finishing Kit...
>>>Pres/Newsletter Editor - Bay Area RVators
>>>http://www.skybound.com/BARV
>>>http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
>>>
>>Mitch,
>>
>>I bought a 3 1/2 hp Quincy compressor from Harbor Freight. It is an
>>oiled compressor with a belt driven cast iron pump. The quality of this
>>compressor is exceptional and much quieter than the oil-less compressors.
>> It cost a little more at $369 but well worth it.
>>
>>Tripp Myrick
>>RV8 #85 - Wings
>>tmyrick(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
<< I'm in the process of installing the pivot brackets (F-444 & F-460) on the
firewall of my -4. The pivot holes on these brackets are not in the same
plane. There is a 9/16" offset. Van's tells me that this is the way they
are
supposed to be, but nobody there can tell me why. >>
The fwd floor ribs are not paralell with each other, but the pedals need to
swing paralell with the rib next to them. This means that the pedals do not
swing paralell to the a/c centerline, which in turn means that the pivot
points are not the same distance from the firewall. Whew!
Do you think this is difficult to comprehend? How about the swing mechanism on
the wing of a TBM or a Hellcat. It hurts to just think about one of those!
You may find that it will be necessary to twist the outer upright of the pedal
(the flat 4130 pc) so that the pivot point is flat against its alum pivot.
This is NOT in the instructions...and there's more where that came from!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Lord isolator fit |
Hi all,
I'm about to paint my engine mount and have a question. How tight is the fit between
the Lord isolators and the cups on the mount? If it's a tight fit, I should
probably mask off that area. If not, I'd rather paint it for rust protection.
Thanks in advance,
Laird RV-6 #22923 hanging the engine this weekend!
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
> The federal civil suit was filed by Morgans widow, Sally, and their two
> children.
So this is to be John Morgan's legacy? What a sorry turn of events.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4 |
DO TELL!
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Installation of Brake/Rudder Pedals on RV-4
<< I'm in the process of installing the pivot brackets (F-444 & F-460) on
the
firewall of my -4. The pivot holes on these brackets are not in the same
plane. There is a 9/16" offset. Van's tells me that this is the way they
are
supposed to be, but nobody there can tell me why. >>
The fwd floor ribs are not paralell with each other, but the pedals need to
swing paralell with the rib next to them. This means that the pedals do not
swing paralell to the a/c centerline, which in turn means that the pivot
points are not the same distance from the firewall. Whew!
Do you think this is difficult to comprehend? How about the swing mechanism
on
the wing of a TBM or a Hellcat. It hurts to just think about one of those!
You may find that it will be necessary to twist the outer upright of the
pedal
(the flat 4130 pc) so that the pivot point is flat against its alum pivot.
This is NOT in the instructions...and there's more where that came from!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lord isolator fit |
Owens wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> I'm about to paint my engine mount and have a question. How tight is the fit
between the Lord isolators and the cups on the mount? If it's a tight fit, I
should probably mask off that area. If not, I'd rather paint it for rust protection.
> Thanks in advance,
> Laird RV-6 #22923 hanging the engine this weekend!
> SoCal
Paint it.
Sam Buchanan (RV6 engine, cowl, and panel stuff)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <hims(at)wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | RV8.Fuel tank. Plate Nuts |
Hello,
I painted (NAPA 7220 self etching gray primer) all the plate nuts in my
wing kit including unfortunately, those that I installed on the access
cover ring on the inside of the fuel tank.
Nothing else inside the tank is painted and would like to know if I could
live (both figuratively and literally) without having to remove these plate
nuts and replace them with non painted ones.
Thank you!
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 wings / tank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Landing light |
Both wings!!?? I put two 55 watt halogen reflector lamps side by side in one wing.
One lamp is flood the other a spot. I tried them on the pickup truck and they
light as well as headlamps.
I haven't been able to find wiring connectors to the two tiny pins on the lamps
yet so any help appreciated.
I don't know how well they will work but the cost is sure right at about $20.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater |
>
>I have seen several ads over the years for electric (or quartz) heaters
>for aircraft cabins, but can't find anything current. The potential
>advantage could be less "plumbing" that required by the usual heat muff
>method, plus avoidance of carbon monoxide being piped into the cabin.
>Does anyone know of any negatives to an electric cabin heater? Does
>anyone know of a good source for electric heaters? Thanks.
There was an excellent article in _Light_Plane_Maintenance_ about 2 years
back. It had an evaluation of which heaters actually did something and how
to wire them up effectively. Evidently several of the ones out there are
worthless but some actually do a pretty good job.
I agree that heating an RV with its bare aluminum sides will be tough given
the potential heat loss through the skin.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
>
>> The federal civil suit was filed by Morgan's widow, Sally, and their two
>> children.
>
>
>So this is to be John Morgan's legacy? What a sorry turn of events.
Hey! He didn't bring suit so let's not speak ill of the dead. I would bet
my bottom dollar it was some blood-sucking leech-like lawyer-creature that
was preying on the widow's grief and anger.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | RV Harmon Rocket Accident (Vern Dahlman status) |
Today's report at morning coffee is that Vern Dahlman's condition is
worsening. Seems that some of his major organs are beginning to shut down.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
> Has anyone had trouble with the mounting holes on the engine mount not
> sitting flush against the firewall?
I just mounted mine the other day. One leg sat about a quarter inch off the
surface of the firewall. I just muttered some more about the quality of the
weldments and pulled it in with the bolt. Since mine is a quick build and of
impressive accuracy, I didn't think to doubt the flatness of the firewall.
It is quite possible that the mount was okay as manufactured and changed during
shipping. However, my canopy frame was simply mismanufactured.
Some tolerance has to be allowed and if it pulls in easily I can't imagine how
it can affect anything. I sure wouldn't arbitrarily stick washers under it.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Indicator |
This is how it was done on my Beech Debonair and it works quite well. The only
drawback I can see is if the soup was so thick you couldn't see the markings ...
but then you wouldn't want the flaps down anyway!
hal
> I saw a picture of an RV on somebody's web page that had a really
> simple position indicator. The builder used clear label tape and
> printed 10 20 30 at the proper positions on the tape and then
> affixed it directly to the flap. That way when the flaps were down 10
> deg the number 10 showed, if the flaps were down 20 deg the number 20
> showed. He still had to look out of the cockpit at the flap but it
> dosen't get much simpler or lighter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | VSI - Cracked Case |
I reported having a VSI that indicated 1000 fpm down while I was in
level flight. Suggestion from folks on the net range from potential
problem with static system to a cracked VSI case.
I finally pulled the VSI and took it to an instrument shop. They
confirmed the problem as a cracked VSI case.
It appears that I may have overtightened the mounting screws in trying
to force the instrument to seat in the 3 1/8" mounting hole. I had the
panel powder coated and the process did deposit some paint along the
edge of the opening very slightly reducing the opening. I later scraped
the excess paint off of the other openings, but feared that I tried too
much brute force on the VSI and cracked the case around the mounting
ears. Expensive lesson - the powder coating only cost $50, the
instrument and its replacement togother - more than I want to admit.
Dumb!
Just wanted to pass the findings along and thanks to all on the list for
their suggestions.
Archieve!
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's lawsuit |
Sorry Michael, you are over-ruled; This one gets archived.
Sam Buchanan
mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
>
>
> The filed civil suit was brought on behalf of John Morgan's wife and two
> children. As we all know, the crash occured during a demonstration flight
> and involved the failure of the left wing, the wing spar fracturing midspan.
> (Repeat after me:) The NTSB continues to investigate this incident to find
> probable cause.
>
> The suit filed stipulates the RV-8 was "designed, fabricated, manufactured,
> tested, inspected, assembled, marketed and sold" in a "defective and unsafe"
> condition.
>
> The suit stipulates it was the right wing that failed in flight under
> "normal flight conditions" but offers no evidence the airplane was unsafe,
> which, at this point, it doesn't have to.
>
> The inspection of the failed components and testing of newly (amateur) built
> wings found no falt with the design, construction (material or methods), or
> assembly of the RV-8 wing. The current report from NTSB indicates probable
> pilot error as the most likely cause. It does not currently indicate the
> wing failed under "normal flight conditions"; repeat: but is still under
> investigation.
>
> Van's designs have an excellent safety record. His methods of aircraft
> design, design testing, construction, and assembly make this an excellent
> and safe aircraft series that is easy to build, and inspect, once the
> construction is done and during its flight life. The number of aircraft
> flying bolster this argument. The design of the RV-8 wing is different, but
> well tested and uses similar methods to the rest of the design series.
>
> You may remember Burt Rutan. He showed the world Experimental aircraft could
> be more than Fly Babys (NOT that there's anything wrong with THAT design).
> He had something to do with where aircraft design is going right now: into
> the future. He was one of us, at one time. Why did he get out of
> Experimental design for amateur builders? Litigation. He got tired of being
> sued. Imagine what he could have come up with for us if things had been
> different. (I would still have a -4, however.) I don't expect that to happen
> with Van.
>
> I sympathize with John's family; we have all lost friends/loved ones to
> unfortunate circumstances. There is no telling how this suit will go, but
> Van has a lot in his favor. We, as pilots and builders are his best
> advocates and advertisers. It is hard to find someone who doesn't like these
> airplanes. How can we help? By building our airplanes well and according to
> the design, keeping our changes minor. And flying them safely. It is good
> for Van, Experimental Aviation and all of General Aviation.
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
> Loving the airplane/design
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
>It is quite possible that the mount was okay as manufactured and
changed during
>shipping. However, my canopy frame was simply mismanufactured.
>
>Some tolerance has to be allowed and if it pulls in easily I can't
imagine how
>it can affect anything. I sure wouldn't arbitrarily stick washers
under it.
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
Listers,
I recently had to return the front stick (RV8) to Van's due to the
pilot-drilled elevator pushrod hole being too low for the assembly to
swing fore and aft without binding inside the main control column tube.
Since welding is more of an art than exact science, I understand there
will occasionally be a tolerance stack-up with welded components, and
wasn't overly concerned about it. In typical, customer oriented fashion,
Van's sent a new one out pronto and it works fine now.
So, my take on it is that each of us is a PAYING CUSTOMER, and should
expect quality product. We also must temper our approach to rectifying
problems to benefit ourselves, and Van's Aircraft. These are stressfull
times for them, no doubt, and we owe them an extra amount of patience
and understanding.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
cutting panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donna Baxter <donna.baxter(at)WrightMogg.com> |
Are you still sure about reinventing the Hummel bird???????
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terrence C. Watson [SMTP:tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 9:18 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: N48RV Lawsuit
>
>
>
> The following excerpts are from January 8 issue of Flyer, received
> today:
>
> Lawsuit claims RV-8 prototype was defective Vans Aircraft says widows
> grievance is not meritorious
>
> By Michael Sweeney
>
> The RV-8 crash that left two people spawned a multimillion-dollar
> lawsuit
> against Vans Aircraft and its owner, Richard VanGrunsven.
>
> The federal civil suit was filed by Morgans widow, Sally, and their
> two
> children. The three plaintiffs are each seeking $4 million in
> damages....
>
> The suit offers no specifics to back its contentions that the airplane
> was
> unsafe. Likewise, it cites no evidence to buttress its claims that
> the wing
> spar fractured under normal operating conditions...
>
> In its court filing responding to the suit, Vans blamed Morgan for the
> crash and cited four possible pilot errors. They include
> mismanagement of
> the planes speed and structural loading, operating the aircraft beyond
> its
> structural limits, losing control of the aircraft, and operating the
> plane --- or allowing Hull to operate it --- in an unsafe manner.
>
> In the court papers, Vans also alleges that the accident resulted from
> a
> sudden emergency or an act of God for which it should not be held
> responsible...
>
>
> Terry Watson
> RV-8A
> Wings due to ship any day
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
>
> -----
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> -----
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Indicator |
Simple is best. A flap indicator needs to be simple and quick to tell you
something.
Here's what I did: on the LEFT wing (the direction your head is usually
turned in a normal pattern), I put a series of black/clear one inch squares
on the most outboard section of the flap, next to the aileron, under the
wing overlap. Only shows when the flaps are down. For 20 degrees one black
and one clear (aluminum) is showing; for 40 degrees, two black and two clear
checks are showing.
XXXXX------
XXXXX !
XXXXX ! = 20 degrees. flap
XXXXX______!
------XXXXXX
! XXXXXX
! XXXXXX
! XXXXXX
XXXXXX ! = 40 degrees. flap
XXXXXX !
XXXXXX !
XXXXXX_____ !
Its simple, and a quick glance tells me what I want to know. What did I use
to make the checks? Marks-A-Lot. It's been there for 180 hours with an
occasional touch-up. Simple.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Year Two
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software Systems) |
I promised some time ago that I would report back after I installed my AoA
indicator from Proprietary Software Systems
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lfrantz/).
I ended up installing it in the CJ-6 instead of in my RV-4.
The installation was pretty straight forward, at least in an all-metal
aircraft. Getting the ports (one top and one bottom) into the wing skins
was not much trouble. Running the plastic tubing from the wing ports was
more trouble but that was a function of the aircraft. This would be much
easier if one installed the ports and the plumbing when constructing the
wing. The computer also needs to be connected to the aircraft's
pitot/static system so that the indicator will accurately display AoA at
different airspeeds and altitudes.
Also the AoA needs gear position and flap position inputs so that it can
store multiple calibration tables for the different wing configurations.
The CJ-6 has two position flaps (up or down -- no way to put the flaps into
an intermediate position) so all I needed was an up/not-up switch. There
is a provision for two flap inputs for up and down. That would let the
AoA's computer know that the flap is in an intermediate position which
would work well for my RV-4 with its two flap positions.
I positioned the display on top of the glareshield where it would be in my
forward view during an approach but wouldn't block my foward view at all.
(I placed it so that it was in a position where my forward view through the
display would have been blocked by the cowling anyway.) This makes it very
easy to monitor AoA while my head is out of the cockpit during an approach
to landing. The display is internally lighted with an panel-mounted dimmer
control. It is very visible in all lighting conditions. My only minor
complaint is that I cannot get it quite as dim as I would like when flying
at night.
Calibration consists of plugging in a configuration "wand" with several
pushbuttons intended for stepping through a calibration menu and storing
several data points. The calibration starts on the ground by selecting the
ground calibration menu and storing the datapoint for zero airspeed. Then
you go fly.
The system needs two data points for both wing configurations (cruise and
approach). The data points are for zero lift (treated as zero AoA) and for
1.15 Vs. I started out by stalling the aircraft clean and power off. I
multiplied the stall speed by 1.15 to determine the reference airspeed for
1.15 Vs for the "clean" config. The first data point is zero lift which
requires a zero-G push. While the aircraft is at zero-G you press the
button to capture that data point. You then step through the menu to the
1.15 Vs "clean" config and slow the aircraft to that reference speed making
sure that the aircraft is stable at that speed (not accelerating) before
taking the next data point. You then repeat the process with the aircraft
in the landing config.
The last calibration is to put the aircraft in a flaps-down and gear up
condition at 15 kts over approach speed in order to set the trip point for
the gear-up warning. This is not an issue with the RV's but it is nice to
have an aural gear-up warning for aircraft equipped with retractable gear.
OK, it is installed and calibrated. How does it work, you ask? Well, I am
pleased with it. It seems to be accurate and it is more convenient to fly
on an approach than the airspeed indicator. Where it really shines is when
you are thrashing around in the sky and you are not in 1-G, nonaccelerated
flight. It is nice going over the top in a loop at 0.5 G's with an IAS 10
kts below Vs0. The AoA indicator still works just fine so you can see if
you are pulling too hard and will stall. Likewise when you are in a really
tight turn and pulling 3-4 G's there is no guesswork about when the
aircraft will stall. There is no ambiguity with the AoA indicator.
So, would I buy another one? Yes, I think so. I would want it in an
aerobatic aircraft or one where I was carrying all different kinds of
loads. The only real issue is cost.
The price for the "Pro" version was $1200 at Oshkosh (special show price)
and, being a gadget freak, I just had to have one. I think before I did it
again I would wait for the lower cost "sport" version. Even so, the Pro
version works exactly as advertised. If you have the money, I would
recommend it.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Y2K compliance |
You know, we haven't heard from Vans about Y2K compliance of the RV-3, -4,
-6, -6a, and RV-8! What might happen if you are flying your RV at
midnight, 1 January, 2000!?! Since the year will reset to "00" your RV
will think it is 1 January 1900 and, remember, *the* *airplane* *hadn't*
*been* *invented* *yet*! There is a good chance that your aircraft would
stop flying and you could find yourself hurtling to the ground at terminal
velocity! Even if you were able to escape your crippled aircraft the
parachute as we know it hadn't been invented yet either so it would fail
and you would probably fall to your death.
I, for one, am waiting to hear from Vans about the testing that they have
(or have not) performed to ensure that all of Vans designs meet all federal
and state standards for Y2K compliance! To not do so would be *REALLY
AWFUL* and would be grounds for a really big lawsuit!
You know, I smell a conspiracy here. I think we need to get the National
Inquirer to do an expose'. Remember, it is your life we are talking about
here.
(For the Humor Impaired: the above message is actually an example of an
attempt at humor.)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Compressor question |
What works very well is to use an automotive exhaust muffler with inlet and
exhaust pipe diameters about the same or a little larger than your compressor's
inlet. Install the muffler in between the compressor and air filter. I used one
from a mid-seventies Honda Civic on my five horsepower compressor and it made so
big a difference that I didn't bother plumbing the inlet to outside my
shop(which also works well). Just ask your local auto parts store or muffler
shop if they have any dead or obsolete stock you could look through and make 'em
an offer.
J. Farrar wrote:
>
> Cy, If you have an idea on how to construct an intake muffler for a direct
> drive compressor, I and perhaps others on the list would be interested. I
> like the idea but I'm concerned about having enough free air flow. Jeff
> Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB next week??., Chandler, AZ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
>On the other hand, lawyers can't do too much without a client, now can they?
>Bruce Stobbe
That is true to a small extent. Lawyers are the exponents of lawsuits.
(Ex. TV ads). Much to gain for the attorney and little to lose. "We believe
you have a reasonable case, Mrs. Blank. Our fee will be ___% plus a small
retainer fee to get the paper work going."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VSI - Cracked Case |
>
>I reported having a VSI that indicated 1000 fpm down while I was in
>level flight. Suggestion from folks on the net range from potential
>problem with static system to a cracked VSI case.
>
>I finally pulled the VSI and took it to an instrument shop. They
>confirmed the problem as a cracked VSI case.
>
>It appears that I may have overtightened the mounting screws in trying
>to force the instrument to seat in the 3 1/8" mounting hole. I had the
>panel powder coated and the process did deposit some paint along the
>edge of the opening very slightly reducing the opening. I later scraped
>the excess paint off of the other openings, but feared that I tried too
>much brute force on the VSI and cracked the case around the mounting
>ears. Expensive lesson - the powder coating only cost $50, the
>instrument and its replacement togother - more than I want to admit.
>Dumb!
>
>Just wanted to pass the findings along and thanks to all on the list for
>their suggestions.
>
>Archieve!
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW
>Vienna, VA
>
Ed and others,
Another thing to consider. I ordered my VSI and Altimeter from Vans.
Once I received them, I gave them the once over. Guess what? The
altimeter case was cracked starting at one of the mounting holes running
along the side of the instrument. It wasn't very noticable but luckily,
I spotted it. Exchanged it with no problem.
Maybe you got a cracked unit?
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 Engine Install
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Builder Questions |
Fellow builders, flyers, and all on the list,
I have to admit that I am a bit frustrated with the List right
now and here's why. Over the past two weeks, I've asked two
builder questions related to the exhaust system and to the carb
heat installation. To-date I've received a grand total of ZERO
responses!
For me, the list is a valuable resource for keeping in touch
with what everyone is doing, for learning great ideas, and for
avoiding mistakes that others have made before me. But it does
take some time to wade through over 200 messages per week.
I guess I don't understand why we all have a need to post
thousands of messages related to primer, wearing helmets, tip-up
versus slider, tail dragger versus tricycle, etc. yet valid
builder questions go unanswered. I looked at my questions to
ensure that they were straightforward and answerable. They
looked okay to me.
My intent is not to flame anyone or the list. All I am asking
is for all of us to remember to avail ourselves to our fellow
builders when we can. I think that that was the spirit in which
the list was originally created.
Thank you in advance for your consideration and patience.
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 Engine Install
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Money support pledge to fight lawsuit(s). |
I would like to pledge $100 (One hundred U.S. Dollars) to Van's
Aircraft Legal Support Fund when ever Van needs or wants it. Hope Van
will allow those of us flying his designs help him as he has helped us.
Thanks Van for making my dream of owning, building, and flying my own
aircraft come true. After 15.5 months and 303+ hours, it has proven
to perform better than your claims.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection) |
> What is your first indication that a fuse or breaker MIGHT
> be open? You probably flipped a switch or twisted a knob
> and the expected result didn't happen. Now, you look to the
> breaker panel . . . what can you deduce? If the breaker is
> out the gizmo is shorted, if the breaker is not out, the
> gizmo is not shorted . . . how useful is it to know this
> in flight since in both cases the gizmo is dead.
I think one reason I continue to argue this even though Bob has some
very good arguments to the contrary, is that by the time I had 400
hours on my ticket I had had TWO instances where a breaker popped, and
in both cases it was useful to have a breaker:
1) Radio failed. Radio breaker was popped. I tried resetting it and
the radio worked until I landed. Turned out there was a loose screw
rolling around inside the radio that made the breaker pop but then
cleared itself after shorting. I know, what are the odds? But it
happened to me. Didn't NEED the radio to continue but it was nice to
have it.
2) Smoke smell in the cockpit! I looked at the breaker panel and saw
that the cockpit light CB was popped. Without the popped breaker I
wouldn't have known what went bad since it was dusk so I didn't
quite need the lights yet. Smoke in the cockpit is SCARY, but
seeing the breaker popped along with the fact that the smell was
dissipating gave me the confidence to proceed to my destination
instead of going for the nearest field. (Also I got my flashlight
out so I was ready as it was getting dark!) Turned out the cockpit
light wire had shorted, taking out the wire-wound rheostat, which
generated the smell.
Maybe I'm just the exception to the rule, but it's incidents like
these that shape one's ideas of what they think is important. Of
course my plane won't have ANY shorts as it's not an old funky
production airplane (both those incidents were in the same 1959
C-175). Still it's hard to forget stuff like that. I'm not
necessarily advocating CBs over fuses, just presenting some pros on
the side of CBs.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder Questions |
Randy Pflanzer wrote:
> -Fellow builders, flyers, and all on the list,
>
> I have to admit that I am a bit frustrated with the List right
> now and here's why. Over the past two weeks, I've asked two
> builder questions related to the exhaust system and to the carb
> heat installation. To-date I've received a grand total of ZERO
> responses!
>
>
Randy - Sorry that you came up short. I have been following the list but must
have missed your requests. I am working in this area on my RV-6 too.
So -- How can I help?
Doug Murray RV-6 Engine installation
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <rvsixer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder Questions |
>
>now and here's why. Over the past two weeks, I've asked two
>builder questions related to the exhaust system and to the carb
>heat installation. To-date I've received a grand total of ZERO
>responses!
I did a search in the archives and found possible answers pertaining to your
queries, and also a direct response as well (not zero).
> For me, the list is a valuable resource for keeping in touch
>with what everyone is doing, for learning great ideas, and for
>avoiding mistakes that others have made before me. But it does
>take some time to wade through over 200 messages per week.
Absolutely agree on all points.
>I guess I don't understand why we all have a need to post
>thousands of messages related to primer, wearing helmets, tip-up
>versus slider, tail dragger versus tricycle, etc. yet valid
>builder questions go unanswered.
Hmmm....I think primer, helmet, canopy, and correctly locating the tailwheel
are valid questions too...not just those pertaining to exhausts and cabin
heat. Regardless, the archives have information on all of them.
>I looked at my questions to
>ensure that they were straightforward and answerable. They
>looked okay to me.
They were.
> My intent is not to flame anyone or the list. All I am asking
>is for all of us to remember to avail ourselves to our fellow
>builders when we can. I think that that was the spirit in which
>the list was originally created.
Many times I find myself wanting to answer a question, but remember it has
already been answered a jillion times in the archives, so I don't.
Likewise, when I have a question I always search the archives first before
posting it on the list.
Rob Acker (RV-6 Engine Install)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder Questions |
> I guess I don't understand why we all have a need to post
> thousands of messages related to primer, wearing helmets, tip-up
> versus slider, tail dragger versus tricycle, etc. yet valid
> builder questions go unanswered. I looked at my questions to
> ensure that they were straightforward and answerable. They
> looked okay to me.
I must agree. It would seem that everyone wants to answer the easy
questions or has an opinion that must be expressed (that includes me).
The list will answer answered the same exact previously answered
questions forever, but will ignore a valid unansered question.
I must admit, I am part of the problem, I used to answer the easy
questions, (the only ones that I know the answer too) but I quit
answering most questions for fear of being one of 500 answers or
opinions.
As for the DNA debate, it would be interesting to see how many answers
there are to the easy questions. I sometimes wonder what the FAQ is
for, a sizable amount of the traffic on the list could be answered by
the FAQ, and another sizable amount of the traffic can be answered in
the archives.
Please don't take this personally, but after 5 years of being on this
list, I find it hard to beleive that there is a question left in the
entire universe that has not been answered in the archives, or so it
sometimes seems. So in the future when an truly unique question arises,
I for one will look at it with a more critical attitude, rather than my
normal attitude of "that question must be in the archives."
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software |
Systems)
Brian,
Thanks for posting the product review. Having seen how little stall
warning the RVs have, I might want something like that in my RV-8.
It is not clear from your message whether you confirmed the accuracy
of the stall indication in accelerated flight. How closely to the
actual stall does it indicate the stalled condition in 1g flight?
How closely to the actual stall does it indicate the stalled
condition in accelerated flight?
I probably won't install one until I have my -8 flying, and see how
aggressively I can manoeuvre without inadvertently stalling. If I
decide to fit it later, do you have any comments on how difficult
that might be?
Thanks,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> I promised some time ago that I would report back after I installed my AoA
> indicator from Proprietary Software Systems
> (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lfrantz/).
<--a whole bunch of good stuff clipped out-->
> OK, it is installed and calibrated. How does it work, you ask? Well, I am
> pleased with it. It seems to be accurate and it is more convenient to fly
> on an approach than the airspeed indicator. Where it really shines is when
> you are thrashing around in the sky and you are not in 1-G, nonaccelerated
> flight. It is nice going over the top in a loop at 0.5 G's with an IAS 10
> kts below Vs0. The AoA indicator still works just fine so you can see if
> you are pulling too hard and will stall. Likewise when you are in a really
> tight turn and pulling 3-4 G's there is no guesswork about when the
> aircraft will stall. There is no ambiguity with the AoA indicator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lord isolator fit |
>
>Hi all,
>I'm about to paint my engine mount and have a question. How tight is
>the fit between the Lord isolators and the cups on the mount? If it's
>a tight fit, I should probably mask off that area. If not, I'd rather
>paint it for rust protection.
>
-
It should be painted for the reason that you mention. You will have no
problem with the fit of the lord mounts as long as you don't get carried
away with the amount of paint you apply.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
>
>I just mounted mine the other day. One leg sat about a quarter inch
>off the
>surface of the firewall. I just muttered some more about the quality
>of the
>weldments and pulled it in with the bolt. Since mine is a quick build
>and of
>impressive accuracy, I didn't think to doubt the flatness of the
>firewall.
>
>It is quite possible that the mount was okay as manufactured and
>changed during
>shipping.
-
I thought I would reply to this post in hopes to provide a little insight
to everyone about why this happens. This is not purely caused by poor
quality or workmanship.
When you build a complex structure with as many welds as an engine mount
has, even when it is constructed in a very stiff, solid, jig fixture the
moment that you remove all of the bolts and clamps it springs into what
ever shape it wants to depending on what internal stresses are built up.
Heating the entire part, and "stress relieving" often just makes matters
worse. About the only thing that could be done is to reinstall in the
jig, and heat localized area's. Remove again for inspection. Reinstall,
heat some more, remove and check again, etc., etc.
Unfortunately this is not something that can be done in a production
environment, and I'm sure you can understand why.
I can't explain why one mount seems to fit perfectly, and another seems
to be badly out of shape.
We have even built prototype motor mount jigs (such as for the RV-8 and
8A) recently where we tacked up the mount in our shop. Then we sent the
whole thing out to the motor mount vendor to be welded.
They send it back to us with it still mounted in the jig fixture. The
moment that we remove the bolts and clamps you would be certain that it
wasn't even built on that jig.
Hope this gives some explanation for why some of the motor mounts don't
seem to be in the shape that they are supposed to be.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VSI - Cracked Case |
Bet it could be repaired with a little epoxy or JB Weld.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: VSI - Cracked Case
>
>>
>>I reported having a VSI that indicated 1000 fpm down while I was in
>>level flight. Suggestion from folks on the net range from potential
>>problem with static system to a cracked VSI case.
>>
>>I finally pulled the VSI and took it to an instrument shop. They
>>confirmed the problem as a cracked VSI case.
>>
>>It appears that I may have overtightened the mounting screws in trying
>>to force the instrument to seat in the 3 1/8" mounting hole. I had the
>>panel powder coated and the process did deposit some paint along the
>>edge of the opening very slightly reducing the opening. I later scraped
>>the excess paint off of the other openings, but feared that I tried too
>>much brute force on the VSI and cracked the case around the mounting
>>ears. Expensive lesson - the powder coating only cost $50, the
>>instrument and its replacement togother - more than I want to admit.
>>Dumb!
>>
>>Just wanted to pass the findings along and thanks to all on the list for
>>their suggestions.
>>
>>Archieve!
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>RV-6A N494BW
>>Vienna, VA
>>
>Ed and others,
> Another thing to consider. I ordered my VSI and Altimeter from Vans.
>Once I received them, I gave them the once over. Guess what? The
>altimeter case was cracked starting at one of the mounting holes running
>along the side of the instrument. It wasn't very noticable but luckily,
>I spotted it. Exchanged it with no problem.
>
>Maybe you got a cracked unit?
>
>Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
>RV-6 Engine Install
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
Amen!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lord isolator fit |
Paint it. No problems with subsequent installation.
Randy Lea
RV-6A Waiting for a hangar at FFZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: crankshaft plugs |
| From: | daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah) |
Hi Paul, I looked through my manual for the information you requested on
your Lycoming crankshaft, you should remove or poke a hole through the
rear most plug inside your crankshaft if you are running a fixed pitched
propeller. This will relieve any pressure that "may" build up inside the
crankshaft. The picture that explains everthing is on page 7-14 of the
overhaul manual. Call or e-mail if you want a copy or a more detailed
anwser. David Ahrens, Bakersfield, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
Listers,
I do not have room in my garage to attach the wings on my 6A-QB. I want to
get the fuselage up on the gear before I mount the engine, so I built up a
false spar to the right thickness, laminating plywood. If the false spar
is one straight piece, it misses the lower attach holes, including some of
the landing gear mount holes - of course the real spar is in two pieces
with dihedral.
Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI.
RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig requires
a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much rather
dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
deburring???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Chris:
I just did this on my QB. (I will update my website tomorrow with pictures)
My spar was one piece. I made my false spar out of two pieces of 5/8"
particle board sandwiched together. The dimensions were 7 3/4" X 48". This
size filled the spar hole from top to bottom all the way through. I mounted
the gear mounts using the top row of bolts on the gear, and a couple of
bolts on the bottom, and the side skin bolts. I have not put my engine on
yet, but I have had two people in mine on the gear, and it held up fine. I
don't think you will need any more to support the weight of anything you put
in there.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy---AHHHHHH!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 4:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: 6A false spar
>
>Listers,
>
>I do not have room in my garage to attach the wings on my 6A-QB. I want to
>get the fuselage up on the gear before I mount the engine, so I built up a
>false spar to the right thickness, laminating plywood. If the false spar
>is one straight piece, it misses the lower attach holes, including some of
>the landing gear mount holes - of course the real spar is in two pieces
>with dihedral.
>
>Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
>Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
>join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
>wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
>mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
>
>Chris Good,
>West Bend, WI.
>RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
I think you will find dimple dies just for screw if you call or search US
tools cat.
Pat Patterson RV-8- #80536
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: crankshaft plugs |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Compressor question |
In a message dated 1/12/99 5:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fourazjs(at)email.msn.com writes:
<<
Cy, If you have an idea on how to construct an intake muffler for a direct
drive compressor, I and perhaps others on the list would be interested. I
like the idea but I'm concerned about having enough free air flow. Jeff
Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB next week??., Chandler, AZ >>
I put an old V W oil bath air cleaner on my compressor, quiets it down
and cleans the air Fred LaForge RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Chris,
I copied the dihedral of the wing spars and mounted the false spars just
as the wings would, splice plates and all. Also, I drilled the bolt
holes in the false spar oversize to make bolt fitting easier
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction CO
6A s/n 22993
>
> Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
> Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
> join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
> wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
> mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
>
> Chris Good,
> West Bend, WI.
> RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
Check Avery again. I got dimple die sets for both #6 and #8 screws from
them. As I recall, they're listed by screw size, not drill size.
Regards,
Greg Young
i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig requires
a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much rather
dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
deburring???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)earthlink.net> |
Anderson
Ed
| Subject: | Vertical speed error in level flight |
> So, if after I get the VSI situation rectified and still get the unusual
1000 fpm down in level flight. I will probably insert the new static
ports and see what they do.
The VSI responds only to *changes* in pressure. If you're getting a bogus VSI
reading in stabilized, level flight, it's not the static system, it's the instrument.
Ed Wischmeyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <srduford(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Doublers |
Listers:
I bought an already started RV-8 kit with the left wing almost completed.
I am in the process of installing the skins on the right wing and can't find
the wing walk doubler for it.
Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing on
the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
but offer no specific details for the right wing.
Thanks
Sylvain
RV-8 #47, Right Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N58RV Lawsuit |
Rob Reece wrote:
>
>
> I think now after everyone has heard the details and got their licks in on
> tort lawyers, that we should drop all discussions pertaining to the RV-8
> N58RV lawsuit and stick to the technical questions and concerns as to the
> cause of the accident.
>
I agree with Rob we need move on. This topic has been hard for me to
follow John was my friend and hanger neighbor and Sally was a friend
to alot of our wives that live in this area. We used to talk and visit
regularly at the hanger in fact John was interested in buying my pickup
when my lease on it was up in two months and now he is not here.
Regardless of the fault it is sad and hard on Van and the rest of
us that knew him and his family personally. I think that we should
at least wait and see if it goes to trial and what develops then.
I changed the subject heading to at least reflect the correct
aircraft.
--
Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: vans lawsuit |
In a message dated 1/12/99 4:13:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, JRWillJR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I was afraid of this >>
Afraid of what ?
I didn't get the original post
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VSI - Cracked Case |
Thanks for the suggestion, Randy
Unfortunately, I did not purchase from Vans and had the instrument for
over two years (optimistic about how quick I would finish building)
before I installed it and another year before I flew and discovered the
problem. Guess what - no warranty after 1 year.
In any case, I do believe this was my stupidity in tightening the
mounting nuts too much trying to force the face into the opening.
Ed
Randy Pflanzer wrote:
>
>
> Once I received them, I gave them the once over. Guess what? The
> altimeter case was cracked starting at one of the mounting holes running
> along the side of the instrument. It wasn't very noticable but luckily,
> I spotted it. Exchanged it with no problem.
>
> Maybe you got a cracked unit?
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
> RV-6 Engine Install
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Builder Questions |
Randy,
Might help if you posted your question again..... What do you need to
know about the carb heat & exhaust that isn't in the archives....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Pflanzer [SMTP:rpflanze(at)iquest.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 7:10 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Builder Questions
>
>
> Fellow builders, flyers, and all on the list,
>
> I have to admit that I am a bit frustrated with the List right
> now and here's why. Over the past two weeks, I've asked two
> builder questions related to the exhaust system and to the carb
> heat installation. To-date I've received a grand total of ZERO
> responses!
>
> For me, the list is a valuable resource for keeping in touch
> with what everyone is doing, for learning great ideas, and for
> avoiding mistakes that others have made before me. But it does
> take some time to wade through over 200 messages per week.
>
> I guess I don't understand why we all have a need to post
> thousands of messages related to primer, wearing helmets, tip-up
> versus slider, tail dragger versus tricycle, etc. yet valid
> builder questions go unanswered. I looked at my questions to
> ensure that they were straightforward and answerable. They
> looked okay to me.
>
> My intent is not to flame anyone or the list. All I am asking
> is for all of us to remember to avail ourselves to our fellow
> builders when we can. I think that that was the spirit in which
> the list was originally created.
>
> Thank you in advance for your consideration and patience.
>
>
> Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
> RV-6 Engine Install
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VSI - Cracked Case |
Good suggestion, Cy
If it were just one crack, I might try, but there were cracks around
each of the mounting ears - just decided too many places for leaks, I
have saved the VSI, so might just try it for the heck of it.
Ed
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> Bet it could be repaired with a little epoxy or JB Weld.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: VSI - Cracked Case
>
> >
> >>
> >>I reported having a VSI that indicated 1000 fpm down while I was in
> >>level flight. Suggestion from folks on the net range from potential
> >>problem with static system to a cracked VSI case.
> >>
> >>I finally pulled the VSI and took it to an instrument shop. They
> >>confirmed the problem as a cracked VSI case.
> >>
> >>It appears that I may have overtightened the mounting screws in trying
> >>to force the instrument to seat in the 3 1/8" mounting hole. I had the
> >>panel powder coated and the process did deposit some paint along the
> >>edge of the opening very slightly reducing the opening. I later scraped
> >>the excess paint off of the other openings, but feared that I tried too
> >>much brute force on the VSI and cracked the case around the mounting
> >>ears. Expensive lesson - the powder coating only cost $50, the
> >>instrument and its replacement togother - more than I want to admit.
> >>Dumb!
> >>
> >>Just wanted to pass the findings along and thanks to all on the list for
> >>their suggestions.
> >>
> >>Archieve!
> >>
> >>Ed Anderson
> >>RV-6A N494BW
> >>Vienna, VA
> >>
> >Ed and others,
> > Another thing to consider. I ordered my VSI and Altimeter from Vans.
> >Once I received them, I gave them the once over. Guess what? The
> >altimeter case was cracked starting at one of the mounting holes running
> >along the side of the instrument. It wasn't very noticable but luckily,
> >I spotted it. Exchanged it with no problem.
> >
> >Maybe you got a cracked unit?
> >
> >Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
> >RV-6 Engine Install
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
I am using -4 screws and platenuts to hold on fiberglass tips. 1/8"
sounds a little larger than necessary, but then presume you could get by
with fewer platenuts than the -4 size requires.
Ed Anderson
Capt. Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig requires
> a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
> catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much rather
> dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
> 1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
> deburring???
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
Does anybody have Steve Barnard's new phone number and/or address? I have
one of his "Holy Cowl"s and would like to return some pictures he sent me
before he closed Barnard Aircraft Components.
Thanks,
Paul
6A IO360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
If your plate nuts are countersunk or dimpled you can press the aluminum
into the depression by using a flat head rivet which after several uses, you
throw away. If this isn't far enough, a slight amount of countersinking
will correct it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt. Steven DiNieri <capsteve(at)wzrd.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 11:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: dimple for 6-32 screws
>
>i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig
requires
>a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
>catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much
rather
>dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
>1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
>deburring???
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
Dear friends, let me make a clarification regarding Peter's remarks. Joint and
several
liability, as Peter stated, is the idea that where a judgment is won against more
than one
defendant, the plaintiff can turn to either defendant to collect that judgment,
or both, or any
combination. After that, what happens is that the defendant who's paid the whole
thing will sue
the other defendant for "contribution", to make him pay his fair share. But, the
idea of joint
and several liability is DEAD for all practical purposes as far as this situation
goes. The
reason is that all 50 states have now adopted "comparative fault" (TN was the last
to adopt it in
May of 1992). In comparative fault, the jury apportions fault to each defendant.
In TN, each
defendant only has to pay whatever portion was assigned to him. There is no more
of this joint
and several liability crap. That's TN, and I say that because tort law is a matter
of state
law. This suit is in federal court (probably due to diversity of citizenship)
and therefore the
federal court will have to decide which state's law they are going to apply. Secondly,
in TN
(which I know looked at California's tort law when adopting comparative fault),
follows the 51%
rule. This means that the plaintiff has to show that the defendant was at least
51% at fault or
he's out cold turkey to begin with. Stated another way, the defendant has to be
less at fault
than all combined defendants. I think the law out west is very similar. So, the
pilot who was
99% at fault clearly would not recover (at least not in any state I've heard of)
anything. Then,
there's other principles such as "respondeat superior" in which the negligence
of a defendant is
imputed to the employer. I'll save that for another day. The whole point of this
email is to
point out that there's too many variables for anyone to know what's going on (and
to clarify what
I think was perhaps a mistatement of the law). As for being worried about putting
things on this
list, I think it's silly to worry about that. They could supoena the whole dang
thing if they
wanted to, but it's nothing but a bunch of opinions from people who don't know
what's going on
(like me) and would probably never be admitted into evidence for that reason.
As for punitive
damages, they are not allowed in negligence cases anyway. The plaintiff just alleges
them in the
complaint usually because it allows discovery into the finacial condition of the
defendant.
Sorry yall. I contributed to Matte and I don't use the list all that much, so
don't be to angry
at me. bye.
Peter Christensen wrote:
> The problem is not with contingency fee arrangements (they were intended to
> allow anyone with access to the legal system even if they don't have the
> funds to hire a lawyer). The biggest problem with tort law today is
> something called "joint and severable liability," which means that if any
> defendent is found in any way liable, it can be responsible for the entire
> judgment. A perfect example is the posting from the person about the
> Mooney crashing in bad weather. The pilot may be 99% liable, but if a jury
> finds Mooney is 1% liable, it is now responsible for the entire award
> (since the pilot usually has no money). Another big problem, of course, is
> punitive damages, which don't belong in a civil case.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Chris,
I did my research on the archive and tried several methods of fabricating the false
spars. I wasn't happy with the results (4 sets) and end up of moving the
fuselage, fixture and wings onto the drive way and did the wing fit check,
drill the landing gear mounts all in one day.
If you plan everything accordingly. Have all your tools available, you can do
it less than a day (maybe on a nice weekend) with only two people. Once all the
drilling and fit check done, move everything back in the garage.
I started at 7:30 in the morning and have everything back in place by 5:30 p.m.
It is not that bad.
T.Nguyen, P.E
RV-6A Awaiting Finishing Kit
>>> Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> 01/12/99 10:05PM >>>
Listers,
I do not have room in my garage to attach the wings on my 6A-QB. I want to
get the fuselage up on the gear before I mount the engine, so I built up a
false spar to the right thickness, laminating plywood. If the false spar
is one straight piece, it misses the lower attach holes, including some of
the landing gear mount holes - of course the real spar is in two pieces
with dihedral.
Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI.
RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doublers |
Sylvain,
The wing walk doublers are cut from two pieces of "scrap" alum sheet that
comes in the wing kit. I don't remember the exact size of the sheets but
believe it was 48" long and slightly wider (1-2") than the finished size of
the doubler.
>
>
>Listers:
>
>I bought an already started RV-8 kit with the left wing almost completed.
>
>I am in the process of installing the skins on the right wing and can't find
>the wing walk doubler for it.
>
>Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing on
>the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
>but offer no specific details for the right wing.
>
>Thanks
>
>Sylvain
>RV-8 #47, Right Wing
>
>
Bill Pagan
"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
Jerry,
Sorry I can't agree. If this is allowed to go to trial it will affect us
in the pocket books. We should be interested in this for more than technical
reasons.
I agree that most of us are out of our league debating legal points.
What I don't understand is how a judge could allow a trial based on a
claim of defective design when the tests which were made public show that
the wing performs as designed.
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Springer [mailto:jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: N58RV Lawsuit
Rob Reece wrote:
>
>
> I think now after everyone has heard the details and got their licks in
on
> tort lawyers, that we should drop all discussions pertaining to the RV-8
> N58RV lawsuit and stick to the technical questions and concerns as to the
> cause of the accident.
>
I agree with Rob we need move on. This topic has been hard for me to
follow John was my friend and hanger neighbor and Sally was a friend
to alot of our wives that live in this area. We used to talk and visit
regularly at the hanger in fact John was interested in buying my pickup
when my lease on it was up in two months and now he is not here.
Regardless of the fault it is sad and hard on Van and the rest of
us that knew him and his family personally. I think that we should
at least wait and see if it goes to trial and what develops then.
I changed the subject heading to at least reflect the correct
aircraft.
--
Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Doublers |
Also, cut the piece about 3/4" longer than the book says so it'll extend
past the rear spar by about an inch. Measure first, then cut. How do I know?
I cut per the book and it was too short.
Well I suppose I can use the piece somewhere else> :
(
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: pagan [mailto:pagan(at)CBOSS.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Doublers
Sylvain,
The wing walk doublers are cut from two pieces of "scrap" alum sheet that
comes in the wing kit. I don't remember the exact size of the sheets but
believe it was 48" long and slightly wider (1-2") than the finished size of
the doubler.
>
>
>Listers:
>
>I bought an already started RV-8 kit with the left wing almost completed.
>
>I am in the process of installing the skins on the right wing and can't
find
>the wing walk doubler for it.
>
>Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing on
>the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
>but offer no specific details for the right wing.
>
>Thanks
>
>Sylvain
>RV-8 #47, Right Wing
>
>
Bill Pagan
"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
paint?
Thanks,
-Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doublers |
Sylvain,
If the RV-8 has the clamshell canopy then you will only need the wing walk
doubler on the left side (I haven't looked at the 8's much, there may not be a
clamshell design). My RV-4 is of the clamshell variety and has a wing-walk
doubler only on the left.
If the RV-8 has the sliding canopy then I don't know, but would assume you would
want both pilot and passenger to get in only from the left side as well, so
again, a wing-walk doubler would only be required on the left side.
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X[reserved], waiting for finishing kit
Sylvain Duford wrote:
>
> Listers:
>
> I bought an already started RV-8 kit with the left wing almost completed.
>
> I am in the process of installing the skins on the right wing and can't find
> the wing walk doubler for it.
>
> Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing on
> the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
> but offer no specific details for the right wing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Sylvain
> RV-8 #47, Right Wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
>
>Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
>Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
>join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
>wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
>mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
Chris,
I made the fake spar out of one straight piece, as part of a jig that holds
the entire fuselage at landing gear (tires mounted) height and flight level
attitude.
I just mounted the landing gear and engine, and have 80 lbs. of
counterweight on the tail. No problems at all so far (took the clecoed top
fuse skins on and off to make sure the fuse was not bending).
Rob Acker (RV-6Q, starting cowl).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Doublers |
Sylvain,
Yes, the doubler should be on both wings for an RV8.
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Smith [mailto:clayfly(at)iquest.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Doublers
Sylvain,
If the RV-8 has the clamshell canopy then you will only need the wing walk
doubler on the left side (I haven't looked at the 8's much, there may not be
a
clamshell design). My RV-4 is of the clamshell variety and has a wing-walk
doubler only on the left.
If the RV-8 has the sliding canopy then I don't know, but would assume you
would
want both pilot and passenger to get in only from the left side as well, so
again, a wing-walk doubler would only be required on the left side.
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X[reserved], waiting for finishing kit
Sylvain Duford wrote:
>
> Listers:
>
> I bought an already started RV-8 kit with the left wing almost completed.
>
> I am in the process of installing the skins on the right wing and can't
find
> the wing walk doubler for it.
>
> Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing
on
> the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
> but offer no specific details for the right wing.
>
> Thanks
>
> Sylvain
> RV-8 #47, Right Wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
>Hope this gives some explanation for why some of the motor mounts don't
>seem to be in the shape that they are supposed to be.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
Scott,
Yes it helps to explain whats happening but doesnt really answer the
question. If one of the mount pads doesnt contact the firewall do I pull it
into place with the bolt, or do I shim the gap? What if the gap is greater
than 1/4 " ? Is there a good, easy way to measure what effect shimming
versus pulling the mount into shape will do to the thrust line? Could this
play into the wide variation I see in rudder trim tabs installed on flying
RVs?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
No, but use a goodtough paint though because the space is close and dragging
wrenches, wire, oil cans, hands and arms through the tubing will scratch it and
wear it off. Temp won't be a problem.
I am going to use a white Polyurethane on mine. Poly because it is tough and
white because cracks will show up as a black or dark line when dirt and oil gets
in it.
Glenn & Judi wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
> paint?
>
> Thanks,
> -Glenn
>
> Matronics: http://www.matronics.com
> RV-List: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
> Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives
> Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doublers |
Clay Smith wrote:
>
> Sylvain,
I would suggest that you consider putting in the doubler on the right
wing as well. Its minimal additional work at this point and If someone
should put their number 14 shoe down on your right wing erronously
assuming it has the doubler, I think you could wish you had.
Additionally, while admittedly not an aircraft designer, but my
understanding is that lot of the wing bending loads of peak near the
fuselage, the load factor could be affected if the design calls for the
doubler. My 0.02 worth.
Ed anderson
RV-6A
> >
> > the wing walk doubler for it.
> >
> > Am I missing the part or is there normally no doubler for the right wing on
> > the -8? Both the construction manual and GBI's video refer to "doublers",
> > but offer no specific details for the right wing.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Sylvain
> > RV-8 #47, Right Wing
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
>
>When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
>paint?
Glenn,
I was worried about temps, but more so about resistance to fuel and oil. I
wound up using Plasticote engine enamel from the local Pep Boys.
Interestingly, when I visited Aircraft Spruce they had the *exact* same cans
of paint, colors and all, with only the Plasticote name replaced by Tempo.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
I was wondering about the round holes in the high speed cowlings such as
Barnards, Pipers and some of the other speed mods.
Do these holes have to be round? I think the Van's cowling as-is, is a
lot prettier than the one with the round holes. Can't an interior
plennum and square nacelles be mated together along with possibly adding
the raised area around the outer openings. I think the area of the inlet
should be more important than the shape.
Phil at Litchfield, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
<< When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
paint? >>
Nah. I would suggest you use the best paint you can afford, tho. The mount is
going to look like a grenade went off near it before you get done with the
engine install- lots of scratches.... I recall someone recommending using pipe
insulation to protect it- good idea!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doublers |
writes:
<< Also, cut the piece about 3/4" longer than the book says so it'll extend
past the rear spar by about an inch. Measure first, then cut. How do I know?
I cut per the book and it was too short.
Well I suppose I can use the piece somewhere else> :
(
>>
Hmmmmm....I do the opposite: I cut the walk so it does not overlay the spars!
It causes a bulge in the top skin if you do let it overlay... You had better
not step aft of the spar anyway!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Orders to AeroElectric Connection |
I've seen some traffic on this subject and thought a
bit of explanation was in order. . .
Over the holidays we spent too much time away from
the office and things stacked up. When we got back into
the saddle a couple of weeks ago, it seems we ran out of
about everything all at once! I've been busy cajoling
suppliers into getting our inventories restocked.
Dee has hauled a lot of boxes to the post office the
past few days so the decks have been cleared for all the
orders we could ship complete. The longest lead time
on any critical shortages I have now are next Monday
so we think we'll be caught up 100% by the middle of
nex week.
Thank you all for your patience!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Doublers |
Mark,
I suspect that they want it to extend a little so it supports that rear
piece of .035 so people don't put a crease in it right at the rear spar when
they step on it with their heels.
I intend to put a "NO STEP" placard just past the rivets at the rear spar
and only paint a wing walk between the two spars. I will also instruct
people on the proper way of mounting the wing.
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com [mailto:Mlfred(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Walk Doublers
writes:
<< Also, cut the piece about 3/4" longer than the book says so it'll extend
past the rear spar by about an inch. Measure first, then cut. How do I
know?
I cut per the book and it was too short.
Well I suppose I can use the piece somewhere else> :
(
>>
Hmmmmm....I do the opposite: I cut the walk so it does not overlay the
spars!
It causes a bulge in the top skin if you do let it overlay... You had better
not step aft of the spar anyway!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software |
Systems)
I was under the impression that RV's have a gently stall characteristic and
that there was ample stall warning by the way the plane reacts. Can anyone
give some more opinions about the stall characteristics?At 09:40 PM 1/12/99
-0500, you wrote:
>
>Brian,
>
>Thanks for posting the product review. Having seen how little stall
>warning the RVs have, I might want something like that in my RV-8.
>
>It is not clear from your message whether you confirmed the accuracy
>of the stall indication in accelerated flight. How closely to the
>actual stall does it indicate the stalled condition in 1g flight?
>How closely to the actual stall does it indicate the stalled
>condition in accelerated flight?
>
>I probably won't install one until I have my -8 flying, and see how
>aggressively I can manoeuvre without inadvertently stalling. If I
>decide to fit it later, do you have any comments on how difficult
>that might be?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
>khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
>Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
>http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
>
>>
>> I promised some time ago that I would report back after I installed my AoA
>> indicator from Proprietary Software Systems
>> (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lfrantz/).
>
><--a whole bunch of good stuff clipped out-->
>> OK, it is installed and calibrated. How does it work, you ask? Well, I am
>> pleased with it. It seems to be accurate and it is more convenient to fly
>> on an approach than the airspeed indicator. Where it really shines is when
>> you are thrashing around in the sky and you are not in 1-G, nonaccelerated
>> flight. It is nice going over the top in a loop at 0.5 G's with an IAS 10
>> kts below Vs0. The AoA indicator still works just fine so you can see if
>> you are pulling too hard and will stall. Likewise when you are in a really
>> tight turn and pulling 3-4 G's there is no guesswork about when the
>> aircraft will stall. There is no ambiguity with the AoA indicator.
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Chris, I also have limited room in my garage. Is there any particular
reason that a "temporary " spar needs to be in place to mount the engine
>
>Listers,
>
>I do not have room in my garage to attach the wings on my 6A-QB. I want to
>get the fuselage up on the gear before I mount the engine, so I built up a
>false spar to the right thickness, laminating plywood. If the false spar
>is one straight piece, it misses the lower attach holes, including some of
>the landing gear mount holes - of course the real spar is in two pieces
>with dihedral.
>
>Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
>Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
>join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
>wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
>mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
>
>Chris Good,
>West Bend, WI.
>RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
>
>Chris, I also have limited room in my garage. Is there any particular
>reason that a "temporary " spar needs to be in place to mount the engine
On the 6A, the main gear mounts bolt through the main spar to the bulkhead,
& also to the fuselage side wall. I suppose you don't need a spar there if
you are not trying to put the aircraft weight on the wheels. I felt it
would be more secure to have the weight on the wheels rather than
supporting the fuselage any other way, while I'm doing the engine work.
It's great to see all the replies on this subject! There wasn't much in
the archives. I still haven't come to a conclusion on this.
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI.
RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software Systems) |
Dan,
I have been flying my RV-6A for 15 hours and these are my initia
impression of the stall characteristics. My RV is on the heavy side at
1170 lbs empty and the C.G. is at the forward limit (when empty)which
probably tends to amplify nose down pitch effect on my bird.
On power off stalls, I notice a very slight buffet immediately (within
2-3 mph) before the stall. At stall, the nose does drops straight ahead
rather quickly compared to a cessna or piper, but not excessively steep
or violently by any means. Recovery is immediate with release of back
pressure on the stick with approx 100 - 150ft altitude lost. There is
nothing radical or scary about the stall, its just a little more
pronounced than the Cessna or Pipers I have flown. I have not yet tried
accellerated stalls or power on stall as of yet. Nothing to be concerned
about in my opinon.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
Dan Wiesel wrote:
>
>
> I was under the impression that RV's have a gently stall characteristic and
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
unlist rvrent2AOL.COM PLEASE THANK-YOU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software |
Systems)
>
>I was under the impression that RV's have a gently stall characteristic and
>that there was ample stall warning by the way the plane reacts. Can anyone
>give some more opinions about the stall characteristics?
You get a clear, pronounced break at the stall. My RV-4 stalls straight
ahead without a huge pitch change and without dropping a wing. Sure it is
benign but you don't get a lot of warning either.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
>
>Do these holes have to be round?
>
>Phil at Litchfield, IL
>
Phil,
I wonder the same thing. No round inlets on Nemesis' cowl and it appears
that it is a fairly low drag design! I wonder if the round inlets are
driven by expectation/marketing forces as much as anything. Any
aerodynamics types out there? If so is there any reference material that
you could recommend on cooling system/cowl design that is understandable by
the average guy?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Get Mad! Get Informed! Get Involved! |
>
>
>If you want to do something about this, write your congressman. A time
limit
>on A/C liability is all well and good but our "blame someone else" society
>has dug a pretty deep hole for itself.
>
>Big cases decide precedent. Big cases have long trial times. That means
the
>judge allows people to beg off for hardship cases.
Editorial starts here:
Joe is right on! We have no one to thank but ourselves for the mess we are
in. This is no different than the violence and sex on TV argument. It is
there because people watch it. The state of our legal system is in the mess
it is in, because people tolerate it. Nobody cares!!! Where is the
outrage? I will try to avoid getting partisan here. Regardless what you
think about the President, the polls show the masses don't want to hear
about the his problems, they just want it to go away. Ladies and Gentlemen,
If we just let all our problems go away, they will. And our freedoms go
right along with them. Chose up sides and fight!
I challenge all of us to spend some of the time we spend writing "d- n-t
ar-hive" posts on the RV list finding out the details of what your elected
officials are doing with your money and your freedom! It is all available
on the net. Here is an example.
Last year there was a liability reform bill (this bill would have solved the
problem that Van faces) in the US Senate and the President said he would
sign it. For the first time ever we had a real shot at meaningful liability
reform. It died. Go to these links and read about it.
This is about the bill:
http://www.amcity.com/sacramento/stories/062998/smallb2.html
And this is what happened to it:
http://www.legislate.com/xp/p-daily/i-1998070901/a-900024179/article.view
Put politicians on notice that if they don't vote for tort reform and
personal responsibility you won't vote for them. Get involved!!! I am a
county chair of a political party. (guess which one?) When I call my
Senator or Congressman they know me and they listen. When they do something
I don't like, they hear about it.
Write letters. Call on the phone. Go to see them when they come to town
and introduce yourself to their aides. When you call, ask for the aide you
met. If you can't get to know the politician, get to know the aide. They
have a lot of power. Work for elected officials or work for their opponent,
but work! Everyone has skills they need. Whether it is pounding in yard
signs or working in phone banks. Politics is important. The quality of our
political process it directly proportional to the peoples participation in
it! Sitting on the couch complaining that all politicians are liars and sex
maniacs will not fix the problem? Remember, politics is the civilized
replacement for violence. Get mad! Find out how your elected officials
vote and take them to task! YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!
Stumbling off the soapbox now,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software |
Systems)
Here is some more info and the answers to Kevin Horton's questions.
The display consists of a series of horizontal bars and downward pointing
chevrons. The bars are green near the bottom, yellow in the middle,
changing to red downward-pointing chevrons near the top. (You can see a
picture of the indicator at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lfrantz/.)
There is a green "donut" in the middle indicating the approach reference
AoA. Below the green donut there is a split green bar indicating best L/D
AoA. At the bottom, below the numeric readout, there is one white bar that
comes on when the wing is at zero lift (zero AoA).
As AoA increases the bars near the bottom go out causing the display to
appear to crawl upward. At 1.15 x Vs(0/1) only the red chevrons are
showing and the system generates the message, "Angle, Angle, Push," in the
audio system. The last, top chevron should extinguish just as the aircraft
stalls if the unit is calibrated correctly.
The manufacturer's instructions calibrate the unit at zero AoA and at 1.15
x Vs(0/1). As you move away from those two points there are probably
errors. The airspeed I was taught to use for approach, 80 kts for the CJ-6
in which the unit is installed, just happens to coincide exactly with the
AoA inicating right at the "donut".
>It is not clear from your message whether you confirmed the accuracy
>of the stall indication in accelerated flight. How closely to the
>actual stall does it indicate the stalled condition in 1g flight?
At 1 G it is quite close. It is in my field of view and it appears that
the last bar/chevron at the top of the display goes out at stall. I will
fly it again and look more closely.
>How closely to the actual stall does it indicate the stalled
>condition in accelerated flight?
This I have not watched as closely to see that the break occurs right as
the last/top bar goes out. As I recall it is close but I will go up again
and watch it specifically as I do accelerated stalls at 2G (60 degree bank)
and at 3G (70 degree bank).
I did talk with Jim Frantz about the range of the unit. He claims that it
is accurate at up to 300 kts IAS and up to 280 lb per square foot wing
loading. He also said that if I wanted to optimize accuracy in a
particular regime, e.g to make sure stall is more accurate, etc., I could
vary the 1.15 x Vs data point when calibrating the unit.
>I probably won't install one until I have my -8 flying, and see how
>aggressively I can manoeuvre without inadvertently stalling. If I
>decide to fit it later, do you have any comments on how difficult
>that might be?
The installation requires four small guage (about 3/16") plastic tubing
runs. Two go to the pitot and static lines and can be easily plumbed in
the cockpit. The remaining two go to ports on the top and bottom of the
wing.
The instructions recommend that the wing ports be located as far outboard
on the wing as possible but inboard of the tips so that tip effects are
minimized. (As I recall they recommend that the ports between 8" and 48"
from the tips.) The ports should be located between 10% and 40% of MAC.
The top port should be as close to right above the bottom port as possible.
If I were planning to install this in an RV-x, I would install the wing
ports and the tubing runs for these ports while I was still working on the
wing. In adding it to the CJ-6 I was lucky that the Chinese had some very
convenient inspection plates but getting the tubing to run down through the
wiring conduit was somewhat difficult.
Hopefully this answers the rest of the questions.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software Systems) |
of warning, but more importantly, its stall behavior was VERY mild. The
nose basically just bobbed up and down like a canard plane does, with
very little altitude loss.
Sylvain
RV-8 #47, Wings
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:42:16 -0800
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software
Systems)
I was under the impression that RV's have a gently stall characteristic
and
that there was ample stall warning by the way the plane reacts. Can
anyone
give some more opinions about the stall characteristics?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
To answer your question: no, the inlets do not have to be round. The reason
they often are in cooling plenum designs is ease of installation. Because
the plenum is attached to the engine, but the engine moves around relative
to the cowl, it is necessary to use a flexible attachment between cowl inlet
and cooling plenum. Round inlets make it easy to use round tubing as the
flexible duct.
Of course, marketing also plays a part. The round inlets do look cool and
are fashionable since the advent of the LoPresti Holy Cowl.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST 90% done, 50% left to go
>
>>
>>Do these holes have to be round?
>>
>>Phil at Litchfield, IL
>>
>Phil,
> I wonder the same thing. No round inlets on Nemesis' cowl and it appears
>that it is a fairly low drag design! I wonder if the round inlets are
>driven by expectation/marketing forces as much as anything. Any
>aerodynamics types out there? If so is there any reference material that
>you could recommend on cooling system/cowl design that is understandable by
>the average guy?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
Dave,
It depends on the location of the extra "hole" on the lower spar strips. If you
have proper edge distance (check with AC 43.13) then I would just put rivet
in the hole as recommended by Van's and move on.
T.Nguyen, P.E
RV-6A Awaiting Finishing Kit.
>>> 01/13/99 03:26PM >>>
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
I haven't seen the spar, of course, so take my opinion for what it is worth.
I agree with Van's: install a rivet in the empty hole.
Good Luck,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST 90% done, 50% to go
>
>Hi Everyone,
>I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
>do.
>In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
>put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
>spar stiffner strips.
>Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
>first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
>What do you engineer types think I ought to do?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Pull the plug on your computer.. DO NOT USE until you figure out how to send
just ONE message.
-----Original Message-----
From: dbergh(at)micron.net <dbergh(at)micron.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 spar
>
>Hi Everyone,
>I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
>do.
>In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
>put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
>spar stiffner strips.
>Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
>first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
>What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
>might have experience with this situation)?
>
>Dave Bergh
>wing skeleton
>RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
Hi Dave,
As Van's says - your not the first to do this. One guy I know actually
drilled the hole for the tiedown ring through the top wing skin as well. :-(
Follow Van's advice - Put a rivet in the hole and keep going. BTW "Vans was
very non committal" usually means "Sigh - another one has done it"
The rivet will be the equalivent of an extra bolt. What you will find though
is that you will now have the head of the rivet right where you want to
attach the tiedown bracket. You will have to probably modify the bracket
slightly to clear the head of the rivet.
Good luck
John Morrissey
-----Original Message-----
From: dbergh(at)micron.net [mailto:dbergh(at)micron.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 8:26 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 spar
Hi Everyone,
I may have committed a real bad OOPS here. Please help me decide what to
do.
In the process of installing the wing tiedown bracket w622 I managed to
put it in upside down so as a result I have an extra hole in the lower
spar stiffner strips.
Vans was very non committal on this and would only say that I wasn't the
first one to do this and to go ahead and put a rivet in the hole.
What do you engineer types think I ought to do (or any one else that
might have experience with this situation)?
Dave Bergh
wing skeleton
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
For Sale 1995 RV-4 185 TTSN , 0320 D1A 160 HP, 185TTSN , Hartzell C/S Prop
185 TTSN, K/N Air Filter, Stainless exhaust pipes with crossover . Single
heater muff. Carburetor heat. Alternator cooling tube, Magneto cooling
tubes, Piper oil cooler, Fuel primer.
Terra 760D Com ,Terra 250D xpdr ,Apollo 360 moving map GPS ,ELT , PSII 1000
intercom, Vertical card compass, Altimeter, VSI ,Electronics International
CHT EGT OAT , Oil Pressure, Fuel pressure, Amp/Volt meter, Electronic Tach,
Lighting on All instruments with dimmer switch.
Navigation Lights, Rear position light, Strobes on wing tips, Dual landing
Lights enclosed in wing tips, Electric Flaps, Locking canopy (keyed same as
ignition), Wood stick grip,
Cabin heat with front and rear outlets, Two fresh air vents located on
canopy skirt.
Professional Paint, White with Blue stripping, Interior panels light Grey
with medium Grey Leather seats
Temper foam, Dark Gray Carpet , Firewall
insulation ,CD player
This is a very nice plane, always kept in a hanger and professionally
maintained. All avionics purchased new November 1996 and installed
professionally.
All plans and instrument documentation. Complete Logs
Cruise 187 mph @ 8.5 gph
Annual due 8/98 (Complete)
$50,500.00
Tony Partain
314-894-0828
Saint Louis MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
The round cowl inlets do have a theoretical (and probably real-world)
advantage over square or rectangular inlets. The way to get the maximum fluid
flow through an opening of any given size is to give the opening a circular
cross section. A long time ago, I even understood how to calculate the flow
differences....
I've decided that whether the gain is .001% or 10%, the extra work just isn't
worth whatever advantage the round outlets offer. I plan to use a cooling
plenum, and may reduce the intake size in my otherwise stock cowling. Then
there is the issue of whether to use dzus fasteners or something similar
instead of the hinges to hold that epoxy pre-preg cowl closed....
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: PLANS/was Van's Lawsuit |
In a message dated 1/13/99 7:57:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
coro_01(at)weblabs.com writes:
<< In any event, I believe a suit such as the one being debated could have a
very serious effect on Van's Aircraft - one that could easily threaten
their survival - regardless of whether they have insurance coverage or not,
simply because the policy will have some limit, and if the award exceeds
this limit, Van's will be left holding the bag. >>
Folks
I read a post lately from Scott McDaniels that said that Van's "does" still
sell
plans for all but the RV-8. It would be nice to have some plans for a
scratch-
built RV if the wrong things happened as a result of a lawsuit. Do not
archive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
Morrissey, John wrote:
> Follow Van's advice - Put a rivet in the hole and keep going. BTW "Vans was
> very non committal" usually means "Sigh - another one has done it"
>
> The rivet will be the equalivent of an extra bolt. What you will find though
> is that you will now have the head of the rivet right where you want to
> attach the tiedown bracket. You will have to probably modify the bracket
> slightly to clear the head of the rivet.
>
> Good luck
>
> John Morrissey
I confess, I did it too on one of my wings. I made a new bracket out of
1/2" x 3/4" stock and drilled a clearance countersink hole in it to miss
the rivet I put into the extra hole. I had to make it wider since my
wing hole was off 1/4" as well. Don't worry about the structural
implications since it is no worse then all those other holes with rivets
and bolts going through your lower spar flange.
Frank Smidler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottj(at)ais.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Hi Chris, I split mine and made it out of laminated marine plywood.
The alignment of the wings came out perfect ( beginners first luck ?)
Scott Johnson
345RV 125TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 5:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: 6A false spar
>
>Listers,
>
>I do not have room in my garage to attach the wings on my 6A-QB. I want to
>get the fuselage up on the gear before I mount the engine, so I built up a
>false spar to the right thickness, laminating plywood. If the false spar
>is one straight piece, it misses the lower attach holes, including some of
>the landing gear mount holes - of course the real spar is in two pieces
>with dihedral.
>
>Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
>Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
>join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
>wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
>mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
>
>Chris Good,
>West Bend, WI.
>RV6A-QB, mounting the landing gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning, was :AoA indicator report |
Dan,
I don't have much time in RVs, as my -8 is still in construction. I
have done stalls recently in a -4 and a -6. I have not done a full
flight test evaluation of stall characteristics, but only idle power,
wings level, 0.5 kt/sec deceleration rate stalls with zero flap and
with full flap. The -4 was at an aft CG, but not the aft limit. I
am not sure of the CG of the -6. All stalls that I did had good
characteristics. There was a nice pitch down, and a small, easily
controllable wing drop.
But, there was next to no stall warning. If you really paid
attention, you could just detect a very small amount of buffet about
2 kt prior to the stall. However, you would never notice the buffet
unless you were looking for it. There have been enough type
certified aircraft (with much better stall warning) involved in
stall/spin accidents to tell me that pilots of average ability could
possibly inadvertently stall an RV.
I have flown over 50 types of aircraft (maybe over 60, I haven't
added them up in a while), and have probably done stalls in about 2/3
of them.
I would like to have something like the Proprietary Software Systems
AOA indicator in my -8, if it does the job properly, and if it is
affordable and well supported.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> I was under the impression that RV's have a gently stall characteristic and
> that there was ample stall warning by the way the plane reacts. Can anyone
> give some more opinions about the stall characteristics?At 09:40 PM 1/12/99
>>
>>Brian,
>>
>>Thanks for posting the product review. Having seen how little stall
>>warning the RVs have, I might want something like that in my RV-8.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doublers |
>Sylvain,
>If the RV-8 has the clamshell canopy then you will only need the wing
>walk
>doubler on the left side (I haven't looked at the 8's much, there may
>not be a
>clamshell design). My RV-4 is of the clamshell variety and has a
>wing-walk
>doubler only on the left.
>
>If the RV-8 has the sliding canopy then I don't know, but would assume
>you would
>want both pilot and passenger to get in only from the left side as
>well, so
>again, a wing-walk doubler would only be required on the left side.
>
-
Since all load testing on RV-8 wings was done with a doubler on each wing
the plans and kit were done to have the builder do the same in case the
doubler contributes to the strength of the wing in the root area.
It was expected that most builders would only put a wing walk on the left
side (side note... depending on what is applied for the wing walk
material, you can get a measurable speed lose after installing it so
don't use more than you have too), but this makes it builders choice.
Bottom line... put the doubler on both sides.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount/firewall not flush? |
>Scott,
> Yes it helps to explain whats happening but doesnt really answer the
>question. If one of the mount pads doesnt contact the firewall do I
>pull it
>into place with the bolt, or do I shim the gap?
-
I'm sorry, someone else had posted the answer given if you call the
office for builder support so I didn't repost it.
"If you can push the mount into position with hand pressure than go ahead
and pull it into position with the bolts" (this mainly goes for the 4
corners, and I have never seen one that the corners couldn't be pushed
tight).
On an RV-4, an RV-6A or an RV-8A that has bolt points in the center area
of the firewall, if you cant push the mount point tight by hand (more
likely in these areas) then you should use a shim.
-
What if the gap is
>greater
>than 1/4 " ? Is there a good, easy way to measure what effect shimming
>versus pulling the mount into shape will do to the thrust line?
-
If you make the 4 corners of the mount go back to the proper position
that they are supposed to be in then I don't think it is likely that you
will have any measurable thrust line misalignment (assuming your firewall
is built flat).
-
Could
>this
>play into the wide variation I see in rudder trim tabs installed on
>flying
>RVs?
-
I think the far more likely cause of that is the simple fact that an RV
builder builds every part of the airplane from spinner to rudder.
Sometimes all of the little miss alignments cancel out requiring no trim
tab, and some times they compound, requiring a very big trim tab.
The majority of builders are somewhere in the middle.
Another factor is the wide range of engine sizes that builders use.
The engine mount thrust line is a compromise which works just fine by
using a small trim tab for final adjustment.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Used engine Questions |
Alan,
The very best advice I think anyone can give you it to read the "SkyRanch
Engineering Manual" by John Schwaner. You can get it off the internet at ...
http://www.sierra.net/skyranch/index.html
It is the best book (by far) that I have ever read about aircraft piston
engines. AL
And by the way would you not archive this question? I'm sure someone else
will ask it AGAIN!!!!
>
>I'm now at the point I need to start looking for an engine. I need to know
>what questions I need to ask when I am inquiring about a used engine that is
>for sale?
>Any help would be appreciated.
>Alan Kritzman
>RV-8 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Good evening,
Was with a group of builders last night talking to the FAA inspector
about all the red tape and he brought up something interesting that I
thought was worth sharing. Mr. Inspector says that if you plan on doing
aerobatics with your pride and joy, you must do ALL of the manuevers you
plan on doing, during your flight testing time in the test area. So,
LEGALLY if you plan on doing aerobatics,(IMHO), and you don't have any
aerobatics training under your belt, you should get some so you can
wring your bird out during testing period or have someone else do it for
you.
Another little morsel(sp?), he says just because you have a repairmans
certificate doesn't mean you can do work on your engine! But, he also
said that they know what goes on out there. Just a couple of tidbits.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
dipaula(at)pete.nit.disa.mil wrote:
> let's stop the lawyer-bashing, the problem isn't the profession.
The problem is, in part, the profession. The laws are written by
legislatures made up largely of lawyers and interpreted by judges who
were once lawyers. They know where their bread is buttered.
Kent Ashton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc |
Can someone tell me if it is a preference or a necessity to install the
other tubes for cooling mags, alternator, etc? Which ones do I HAVE to
have, and which ones are options? Also, what kind/size of tubes are
generally used?
Thanks..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
Hi all,
Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
install one that is approved by the Feds?
Bill Pagan
"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
Capt. Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
> i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig requires
> a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
> catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much rather
> dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
> 1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
> deburring???
>
I can't find my Cleaveland catalog but they sell a kit for wing tip install
which includes small screws, the darndest dimple you ever saw which makes them
awesomely flush and a bunch of platenuts.
If you want to stick with the #6, then I think they also sell a #6 dimpler
too. It is costly but it is different than the rivet dimplers since it puts a
shoulder in the skin which is required for a screw to sit down flush.
DLW.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Thank yous for info |
I would like to thank you all for replies to my inquiries. I am on this
list specifically becasue of the great wisdom of our fellow builders.
Having said that, I am concerned that I not clog up the email by always
thanking people. Is it proper form to thank each other for the info or do
we just take it for granted because that's why we are on the list. ( I am
of the school that help should be thanked)
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Joe,
I have my boost pump mounted per plans and have had no trouble. There are
a couple of thousand RVs flying, now, and I assume that a great majority of
them have installed the Facet pump per plans. I would have thought that,
had there been any problems over the last few years, we would have heard
something from the factory by now.
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>I am was about to install my electric fuel pump in the cockpit before the
>gascolator which will be on the firewall. I talked to a aircraft mechanic
>today and he stated that he never heard of the elect fuel pump installed in
>line before the gascolator because he believes that one of the main reasons
>for the gascolator is to catch dirt etc. before entering the elect fuel
>pump. I have seen several pumps mounted in the cockpit!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
>
>Another little morsel(sp?), he says just because you have a repairmans
>certificate doesn't mean you can do work on your engine! But, he also
>said that they know what goes on out there. Just a couple of tidbits.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
Jerry,
I don't believe this statement is correct. We are allowed to work on our
engines, it's just that they will no longer be considered "certified"
unless we have an A&P ticket when we do that work or have the work checked
and signed off by an A&P. That is you can work on your engine if you have
the repairmans certificate for the aircraft that you are working on. AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc |
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 8:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc
>
>Can someone tell me if it is a preference or a necessity to install the
>other tubes for cooling mags, alternator, etc............................
Paul, I would recommend you install cooling tubes to your mags and the fuel
pump. Certificated airplanes have them for a good reason; heat is
detrimental to the coils in the mags and the number one reason for vapor
lock. Since you are in Arizona, I would recommend a blast tube for the
gascolator also. Van's sell flexible corrugated cooling tube that works
great for this purpose. I think it is 3/4" in diameter.
Martin Sutter RV6 N868CM 1,300 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RD Compton" <sluggo(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
A mother noticed that her young daughter was becoming very curious as to the
workings of "the birds and the bees." Fearing that she might get some
misleading info from her school yard pals, the mom decides the time is right
for the "talk."
So, the mom sits down with her daughter and has a good long talk about how
it all works. The talk goes well, and in conclusion, the mom asks her
daughter if she has any questions.
The girls says, "Yes, momma, I do have one question."
The mother says, "Go ahead, honey, what is it?"
The girl asks, "Momma, tell me this. Can you get pregnant from anal sex?"
The mom answers, "Well sure you can! Where do you think lawyers come from?"
Hope that clears it up :-)
Sluggo
-----Original Message-----
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com <WFACT01(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: N48RV Lawsuit
>
>NO ITS THE GREED
TOM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Here is an idea: During your flight test period, perform a loop, an aileron
roll, and a spin. Since all aerobatic maneuvers are just combinations of
these three basics, you are covered.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
former USAF instructor pilot who despises the idea that "aerobatics"
comprise some separate form of flying.
>
>Was with a group of builders last night talking to the FAA inspector
>about all the red tape and he brought up something interesting that I
>thought was worth sharing. Mr. Inspector says that if you plan on doing
>aerobatics with your pride and joy, you must do ALL of the manuevers you
>plan on doing, during your flight testing time in the test area.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Al Mojzisik wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Another little morsel(sp?), he says just because you have a repairmans
> >certificate doesn't mean you can do work on your engine! But, he also
> >said that they know what goes on out there. Just a couple of tidbits.
> >
> >Jerry Calvert
> >Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
>
> Jerry,
> I don't believe this statement is correct. We are allowed to work on our
> engines, it's just that they will no longer be considered "certified"
> unless we have an A&P ticket when we do that work or have the work checked
> and signed off by an A&P. That is you can work on your engine if you have
> the repairmans certificate for the aircraft that you are working on. AL
>
Al,
I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr. Inspectir
says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an A&P
or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no pay!!!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Fellow Listers,
Might as well give my .02 worth. Given the reality of today's society, I
seriously doubt that this is the first time that Van's has found themselves
on the wrong end of a lawsuit. Given this sad fact, I'm sure that they
probably have enough past experience to draw on as far as how to best
protect the themselves. I'm sure that they would appreciate any support
that we builders can give them, but if their financial planning is half as
good as their airplane designing, I think they'll be just fine.
Joe Rex
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Johnson +ADw-spjohnsn+AEA-ix.netcom.com+AD4-
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: lawsuit
+AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: +ACI-Stephen Johnson+ACI- +ADw-spjohnsn+AEA-ix.netcom.com+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-Hi all,
+AD4-
+AD4-I think it's time to stop any panic reaction before it starts. In my
+AD4-opinion, Van's has probably taken precautions to prevent serious threats to
+AD4-the company's future. +AD4-Steve Johnson
+AD4-
+AD4-RV-8 +ACM-80121
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4APg---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: coro+AF8-01+AEA-weblabs.com
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
You don't have to install anything approved by the feds..that's why their
experimentals!
Actually, I better retract that before I get flamed and corrected. You do
not have to install TSO'd stuff unless it is IFR equipment. So yes, you can
install any CD player you want. I have seen many Sony, Kenwood, Optimus,
Soundesign, Krako, etc in many experimentals. I am installing a Sony
CDX-2180...inexpensive cd player, and good quality..about $179 if you find
it on sale.
You can see it at:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/ss5/car/mobilemusic/cdreceivers/cdx-218
0.shtml
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:53 AM
Subject: RV-List: CD Player
>
>Hi all,
>
>Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
>install one that is approved by the Feds?
>
>
>Bill Pagan
>"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit |
Archive this one....everyone who has posted regarding this lawsuit should
read below...nice job Stephen
We are not here to discuss Van's legal troubles. We are here to help each
other, so lets keep helping each other!
Paul Besing
Please Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 3:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: lawsuit
>
>Hi all,
>
>I think it's time to stop any panic reaction before it starts. In my
>opinion, Van's has probably taken precautions to prevent serious threats to
>the company's future. Suppose I'm wrong? My wife accuses me of always
>considering the worst case because I'm an engineer, and I'll plead guilty
to
>that. What is the worst that can happen here? The design work has been
>completed on the RV series, and the CAD drawings and machine tool programs
>are finished.
>
>The RV series will survive. The absolute worst that could happen is that
>the kits would be produced by a different company, perhaps located in a
>friendlier country a few miles north of the current location :-). Let's
all
>relax, and hope for the best for Van's. I for one am not the least bit
>worried that the work I have put into my plane so far will be in vain.
>
>Steve Johnson
>
>RV-8 #80121
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Adrian Chick wrote:
>
>
> Is there any reason that later on you couldn't get some aerobatics training and
> then test them in a practice area? Has it got to be done during the initial
> testing? As for the engine, he might "know what goes on" out there, but I'd
> guess that most a/c insurance policies may become void if the airplane is not
> legally maintained. hmm.
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
>
> >
> > Good evening,
> >
> > Was with a group of builders last night talking to the FAA inspector
> > about all the red tape and he brought up something interesting that I
> > thought was worth sharing. Mr. Inspector says that if you plan on doing
> > aerobatics with your pride and joy, you must do ALL of the manuevers you
> > plan on doing, during your flight testing time in the test area. So,
> > LEGALLY if you plan on doing aerobatics,(IMHO), and you don't have any
> > aerobatics training under your belt, you should get some so you can
> > wring your bird out during testing period or have someone else do it for
> > you.
> >
> > Another little morsel(sp?), he says just because you have a repairmans
> > certificate doesn't mean you can do work on your engine! But, he also
> > said that they know what goes on out there. Just a couple of tidbits.
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
>
Adrian,
Very good question. Mr. Inspector addressed that issue. Paperwork can
be filed to put the airplane back into a test period if you need to do
more experimenting, like a prop change, structure modification, engine
component change, flying up-side-down or whatever.
Voiding insurance liability was one of his scare tactics he used to sway
us from doing something illegal and unfortunately, he is correct!
Guys, I have never been through the certification process and don't know
much about it. But, I can see how it's going to be a bag of worms.
Thank goodness, the EAA has gone to bat for us or we would be building
boats :
(
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
Yes, I used the Lycoming Grey by Tempo in a can and available from
Aircraft Suppliers. This stuff is tough and heat resistant.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
>paint?
>
>Thanks,
>-Glenn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Bill
You can install any kind of cd player you want
I have a sony......
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
The plans call for flush 3/32" rivets to attach the root and tip fuel
tank ribs to the baffle. This will require dimpling 80 holes for the
tip/root ribs to baffle attachment. Why can't universal head rivets be
used which will give a totally flat bond between the tip and root ribs
and the baffle and no dimpling. Anybody use the universals?
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
>
>Al Mojzisik wrote:
>>
>
>
>I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr. Inspectir
>says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
>engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an A&P
>or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
>Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
>accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no pay!!!
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
I think what we should consider is what we put in the logs. I
certainly would not advise falsifying logs for an aircraft but if I
was to pull a cylinder (or all four) to have them honed and then
re-install them myself, I doubt my logbook would reflect that
particular work.
If I was to install a new carb, mag or whatever I also would not have
a written record of that.
I'd venture to say that anyone with the skills to build an RV can
learn the simple skills needed to work on the tractor engines we buy
from Lycoming. No vacuum advance, no pcv valves, no computer
controlled fuel injection; the engine we use has not changed since the
1940's.
BTW, it's been mentioned that we can remove the data plate from the
engine. If we do that we can work on it as we wish; however, it will
no longer be a Lycoming and, thus, will be worth less to a prospective
purchaser.
I'd expect that any RV builder would love to buy an engine pulled from
another flying RV, data plate or not.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
n41va(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I used the Lycoming Grey by Tempo in a can and available from
> Aircraft Suppliers. This stuff is tough and heat resistant.
> Von Alexander
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
> writes:
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >When I paint the engine mount, will I need to use a special high-temp
> >paint?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >-Glenn
> >
Powder coating the mount was brought up last week with no response that
I saw so I want to resubmit it. Is powder coating acceptable?? Will it
make crack detection too difficult?? Will it mees up the metalurgy(sp?)
properties??
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
thanks for the feedback.. i'm sure i've scoured the tool catalog twice than
after i just picked it up again there it was. i'm gonna order the #6, and #8
dimple dies. has anyone found a use for the #10?? and one more... has anyone
found if there was a difference between the cleaveland and avery sets??
Steven DiNieri
Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Wings in the works!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
This kind of got me thinking...
How do you have the music going and not have it interfeer with incoming and
outgoing radio calls?
cheers
Todd
waiting for RV8 Kit to arrive
>
>Bill
>You can install any kind of cd player you want
>I have a sony......
>Stew RV4 Co.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
---
Subject: Fw: FW: Vote!
>
>
>----------
>> From: MATTHEW TALIAFERRO <LNUSSAT.MTALIAFE(at)gmeds.com>
>> To: mtalia(a)aol.com
>> Subject: Re: FW: Vote!
>> Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 10:25 AM
>>
>>
>> cc:
>> Subject: Re: FW: Vote!
>>
>> A man on his way home from work at the Pentagon came to a dead halt in
>> traffic and thought to himself, "Wow, this traffic seems worse than
>usual.
>> Nothing's even moving." He notices a police officer walking back and
>> forth between the lines of cars, so he rolls down his window and asks,
>"Excuse
>> me, Officer, what's the hold up?"
>>
>> The Officer replies, "The President just found out Starr has delivered
>> another report to the Congress and he's all depressed. He stopped his
>> motorcade in the middle of the Beltway and he's threatening to douse
>> himself in gasoline and set himself on fire. He says his family hates
>him and
>> he
>> doesn't have the $33.5 million he owes his lawyers. I'm walking around
>> taking up a collection for him."
>>
>> "Oh really? How much have you collected so far?"
>>
>> "I've got a lot of folks still siphoning; but right now I have about
>three
>> hundred gallons."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Melvin Barlow" <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software Systems) |
I just did a few stalls yesterday in my 1988 RV4, with a CFI in the back
seat. Power off, with flaps the elevator force got very light as ASI decayed
below 60Kts. At about 55, I got a couple of buffets through the stick, which
the CFI felt also. Then the nose dropped smoothly. No problem keeping the
wings level with RUDDER. Released back pressure, added some power and we
were flying again with about a 100 Ft. loss of Alt. (I was slow with power).
Power on, no flaps: I slowed down to around 60Kts., then brought power up to
2000 RPM, pulled the nose up as needed to loose speed. Again slight buffet
just as the stall occurred. nose did not really drop, but we were sinking,
lowered the nose, and flew away. My opinion is that the stall is very well
announced by the loss of stick force and buffet which can be felt through
the stick and airframe.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software Systems)
>
Can anyone give some more opinions about the stall characteristics?
________________________________________________________________________________
Automotive is fine.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>Hi all,
>
>Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
>install one that is approved by the Feds?
>
>
>Bill Pagan
>"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint Together or Apart? |
In prepping my RV-8 for paint, I am wondering whether I should paint the
wings with the wingtips on or off. Also the cowling, wheel pants, and
fairings; should they be on or off? I suppose it could be done either
way, but does anyone know what the professional aircraft painters do?
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc |
Paul; I asked this same question about a week ago, and the overwhelming
response was, it is easy to do; why not? So I did, and yes it just takes
maybe an hour or less to do this. Just use the corrugated tubing from
Vans.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Can someone tell me if it is a preference or a necessity to install
>the
>other tubes for cooling mags, alternator, etc? Which ones do I HAVE
>to
>have, and which ones are options? Also, what kind/size of tubes are
>generally used?
>
>Thanks..
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>Canopy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
assuming the panel to which you refer is in an experimental aircraft you
would have no problem.
a few pointers...purchase a better quality player, 1bit or better, to help
cover up any skipping. high power isn't nessesarily better because if you
using an audio input to your intercom you will probably clip or cut out
depending on intercom. remember to power down cd player as part of landing
checklist, the controlled crash almost always causes a head strike of the
laser and cd platter. which could ding your favorite cd or cause
mis-tracking of laser over time.
btw. if you do decide to buy one and you are looking at an alpine,
pioneer,blaupunkt, sanyo,or jvc i'd be glad to sell you one at cost with the
promise of a ride someday...(i have a retail store in nf,ny)
Steven DiNieri
Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Wings in the works!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DWAIN L. HARRIS" <102617.2606(at)compuserve.com> |
Write out another check an order the PS 2000. Works great.
Dwain
RV-6
N164DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
With a PS intercom, the music mutes when you receive or transmit. Works great.
Walt
RV-6A 112 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Together or Apart? |
FWIW: Mine was painted by a pro... he had me remove all the control surfaces,
cowl, spinner, fairings, etc. before spraying.
Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Noble" <apple(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's lawsuit |
>
>The RV-8 we're talking about had a structural failure in flight. There are
>no witnesses to claim the A/C was engaging in aerobatic flight. The NTSB's
>findings of "pilot error" carry some weight, but a review of NTSB records
will
>indicate just about all accidents are chalked up to pilot error.
>
I didn't know that NTSB final report had been filed yet. Have you seen it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
>
> Good evening,
>
> Was with a group of builders last night talking to the FAA inspector
> about all the red tape and he brought up something interesting that I
> thought was worth sharing. Mr. Inspector says that if you plan on
doing
> aerobatics with your pride and joy, you must do ALL of the manuevers
you
> plan on doing, during your flight testing time in the test area.
---------- snip ---------
The DAR out of the FAA's Riverside Office in congested Southern
California told me that I did not have to do all the aerobatic testing
during the initial 25 hours. Any maneuver that I did not do and
wanted to do only required that I return to the 35 mile radius test
area and perform the maneuver. After safely completing said maneuver,
make the entry in the logbook. Are you telling us that this is
another FAA item that changes as you go from one FISDO to another?
Ask the inspector to show you where it is in the regulations.
I do all my own engine work and log it in the engine logbook. I also
have signed off other homebuilders engine work as I have an A&P. Does
your repairman certificate says that you can work on the airplane or
does it just say the airframe? The engine is an appliance that is in
the airplane.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< How do you have the music going and not have it interfere with incoming and
outgoing radio calls? >>
Fortunately darn near every intercom and audio panel has circuitry in place
which mutes the music when the radio or mic calls require. This is standard
practice. Also a good intercom will have a mode that just passes thru the
audio unchanged if the intercom fails.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank (ALL) |
As Jerry Calvert mentioned, I too have wondered why round head (universal)
1/8" rivets can't be used to mount the fuel tank end ribs to the rear baffle.
In fact I plan on doing just that unless someone can give me a good reason not
to.
Doug Seward, -4, wings/tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank (-6a) |
jerry calvert wrote:
>
>
> The plans call for flush 3/32" rivets to attach the root and tip fuel
> tank ribs to the baffle. This will require dimpling 80 holes for the
> tip/root ribs to baffle attachment. Why can't universal head rivets be
> used which will give a totally flat bond between the tip and root ribs
> and the baffle and no dimpling. Anybody use the universals?
Once you've got your dimpling tool out, it doesn't take long to do those
80 holes.
I guess you could use universals. But do you have any 3/32" universals?
They're not included in the wing kit, so you'll have to order them
specially. Or I guess you could use 1/8" universals.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
>
> Al,
>
> I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr. Inspectir
> says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
> engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an A&P
> or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
> Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
> accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no pay!!!
>
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
>
I think that the fact that the FAA chooses not to pursue you guys who work on
your own engines has nothing to do with the contract between you and your
insurance carrier regarding what they will cover and what they won't. The FAA
is
not the one who insures your airplane. I'm simply suggesting that each person
check his particular policy and give it some thought. It's worth the phone call
don't you think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | first flight insurance |
Sorry, I can't make any sense from the archives. I've got
two questions. First, I've got my emp kit finished. Is it
too late to get into the EAA flight advisor program?
Second, assuming I don't get involved in the programs, CAN I
get first flight insurance from anywhere? Third question,
how many of you know of RV builders who've cracked up the
plane on the first flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit |
I don't agree with this reply. I'm just starting out on the tail of my RV4. If
Van's suddenly went away and someone else started selling the kits, they'd
probably change some items. My Corben is one example...current plans are
considerably different than the originals...enough so, that if I had built one
area to original plans, another area would not fit together with the old.
I'm not flaming Paul...he has put a lot of great stuff on this list! I just
look at worst case scenarios myself. I guess that's another reason I wish Van's
sent the whole package of real plans with your initial purchase, so that you
could at least fabricate parts yourself if need be.
Somehow, we must ensure Van's survival.
Scott
RV4 tailkit
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Archive this one....everyone who has posted regarding this lawsuit should
> read below...nice job Stephen
>
> We are not here to discuss Van's legal troubles. We are here to help each
> other, so lets keep helping each other!
>
> Paul Besing
> Please Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 3:07 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: lawsuit
>
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I think it's time to stop any panic reaction before it starts. In my
> >opinion, Van's has probably taken precautions to prevent serious threats to
> >the company's future. Suppose I'm wrong? My wife accuses me of always
> >considering the worst case because I'm an engineer, and I'll plead guilty
> to
> >that. What is the worst that can happen here? The design work has been
> >completed on the RV series, and the CAD drawings and machine tool programs
> >are finished.
> >
> >The RV series will survive. The absolute worst that could happen is that
> >the kits would be produced by a different company, perhaps located in a
> >friendlier country a few miles north of the current location :-). Let's
> all
> >relax, and hope for the best for Van's. I for one am not the least bit
> >worried that the work I have put into my plane so far will be in vain.
> >
>
> >Steve Johnson
> >
> >RV-8 #80121
>
> >
>
--
Scott
1986 Corben Junior Ace
N3642
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
OK, lots of listers have responded that you can indeed install any CD
player you want, but read this months Sport Aviation with a cover story
article on Harmon's RV-6A (nice pictures!) with a Sony CD player in it.
The article claims that having the tunes cranked during sport flying is
part of the fun. I love articles and pictures like these because it keeps
up the enthusiasm while doing mind-numbing chores like deburring hundreds
of holes.
Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
install one that is approved by the Feds?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank (-6a) |
I can't think of a structural reason not to do it, but it would mean
dirtying a universal rivet set with proseal and add the complication of
changing to the universal set from the flush (whether using gun or
squeezer) while putting the rear baffle in. IMHO, not worth saving
myself the trouble of dimpling, which only took a few moments anyway.
Also, unless you buy 3/32" universals, you will have to change the rivet
spacing for the 1/8" rivets; more work for the weary. Not that I am
saying don't do it; I'm just justifying why I lazily did it according to
the plans. :)
PatK - RV-6A
jerry calvert wrote:
>
> The plans call for flush 3/32" rivets to attach the root and tip fuel
> tank ribs to the baffle. This will require dimpling 80 holes for the
> tip/root ribs to baffle attachment. Why can't universal head rivets be
> used which will give a totally flat bond between the tip and root ribs
> and the baffle and no dimpling. Anybody use the universals?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
The portable intercom I have (for use in spam cans) has a line-in for
portable audio (CD, cassette), which is automatically muted when the
main circuit is in use. That was manufactured by FlightCom; they also
advertised a panel mount intercom with the same capability. I expect
that it would have leads instead of or in addition to a line-in jack for
wiring a panel mounted audio device. I would also expect other
intercoms to have similar capability.
By the way, the muting works really well, though OAK did ask once what
me and my instructer were listening to. I think that's because we were
singing along to "Born to be Wild", and we keyed the mike before muting
both pilots. :) I also found that the right soundtrack can make even a
C-152 trainer exciting to fly....
PatK - RV-6A
Todd Lattimer wrote:
>
> This kind of got me thinking...
> How do you have the music going and not have it interfeer with incoming and
> outgoing radio calls?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc |
Paul,
I have blow cool air sourced from the upper plenum via 1" plastic tubes
to both mag's, the fuel pump, and the gascolator..... The 1" tubes are the
corrugated type from Van's....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 2:20 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Cooling tubes: alt,mag,etc
>
>
> Can someone tell me if it is a preference or a necessity to install the
> other tubes for cooling mags, alternator, etc? Which ones do I HAVE to
> have, and which ones are options? Also, what kind/size of tubes are
> generally used?
>
> Thanks..
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
> Canopy
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Listers,
My 1993 RV-6A kit plans call for the universal 3/32" rivets in this
area.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
1300 Hrs/5Yrs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank van der Hulst [SMTP:frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 3:49 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Tank (-6a)
>
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
> >
> >
> > The plans call for flush 3/32" rivets to attach the root and tip fuel
> > tank ribs to the baffle. This will require dimpling 80 holes for the
> > tip/root ribs to baffle attachment. Why can't universal head rivets be
> > used which will give a totally flat bond between the tip and root ribs
> > and the baffle and no dimpling. Anybody use the universals?
>
> Once you've got your dimpling tool out, it doesn't take long to do those
> 80 holes.
>
> I guess you could use universals. But do you have any 3/32" universals?
> They're not included in the wing kit, so you'll have to order them
> specially. Or I guess you could use 1/8" universals.
>
> Frank.
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight insurance |
Adrian,
You can get the insurance break that some companies offer as long as
you participate in the EAA Flight Advisor program before your first
flight. However, you should also (starting now) get an EAA Tech
Counselor to periodically inspect your work - that can also help your
insurance situation, give you confidence you are proceeding with proper
workmanship, and get you involved early on with those that can be
immensely helpful.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
Adrian Chick wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I can't make any sense from the archives. I've got
> two questions. First, I've got my emp kit finished. Is it
> too late to get into the EAA flight advisor program?
> Second, assuming I don't get involved in the programs, CAN I
> get first flight insurance from anywhere? Third question,
> how many of you know of RV builders who've cracked up the
> plane on the first flight?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Listers,
(Long Story....)
Please be aware the no two FAA inspectors will ever agree what is in
the Reg's, never mind what is legal. They all have their own
interpretation of their own regs.... Even when presented with approved
337 forms from one FISDO office, another FISDO office can and does
disapprove the same changes on a certified aircraft. (We see this a lot
at the BDL FISDO...)
When I got the airworthiness cert for N925RV, I was told that my
"Lycolming" engine needed to have all the AD paperwork in order to get
the airworthiness cert. I asked the inspector why he thought that it was
a "Lycolming" engine and not an experimental engine as my paper work
indicated. His response was that it said so on the Rocker Covers! So I
said, in eight more places there was the name "Champion", in two more
places it said "Bendix", and in another place it said "Marval Shweber",
so, with all these names, what made it a "Lycolming" engine. His replay
was "I see your point, but officially, the name is on the engine data
tag". In error, I replied that "Experimental" engines didn't require a
data tag. His retort was "All engines require a data tag!", to which I
replied, "What would you like it to say? This engine no longer meets the
requirements of a certified engine and therefore IS Experimental..."
He then asked WHY I wanted an "Experimental" engine. My response was
a question to him: If this engine was "Certified" could I legally put an
automotive quality electronic ignition on it like every car in America
has, and still keep the certification? Or what about Ceramic coatings on
all journals like the top notch race technology people are doing? His
reply was "No, certified engines have no certified process in place for
electronic ignitions (This was prior to the new Bendix system) or
Ceramic coatings" to which I replied " That's why I don't want a
'Certified' engine, I'd be stuck in the thinking process and technology
of the 1940's where the FAA was keeping the "Certified' part of General
Aviation." and that the FAA Experimental classification allows us to
"experiment" and make changes away from the "certified" process. That is
the basic intent of the experimental process, and without it, no
progress could be made in the betterment of general aviation.
The bottom line is that my engine's tag now says "Manufacture: FW
STUCKLEN Type: O-320-D1A" and I can work on it legally AND be
insured..... ( I even kept the original S/N...)
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
1300+ Hrs/5+Yrs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Chick [SMTP:adrianchick(at)home.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 4:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight testing
>
>
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr.
> Inspectir
> > says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
> > engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an
> A&P
> > or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
> > Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
> > accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no
> pay!!!
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
> >
>
> I think that the fact that the FAA chooses not to pursue you guys who
> work on
> your own engines has nothing to do with the contract between you and
> your
> insurance carrier regarding what they will cover and what they won't.
> The FAA is
> not the one who insures your airplane. I'm simply suggesting that
> each person
> check his particular policy and give it some thought. It's worth the
> phone call
> don't you think?
>
>
>
>
> -----
>
> -----
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> -----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike&Christina Lauritsen" <mikenchristina(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lawsuit Discussion |
>>I would bet
>>my bottom dollar it was some blood-sucking leech-like lawyer-creature
that
>>was preying on the widow's grief and anger.
>I think now after everyone has heard the details and got their licks in
on
>tort lawyers, that we should drop all discussions pertaining to the
RV-8
>N58RV lawsuit and stick to the technical questions and concerns as to
the
>cause of the accident.
>If Mrs. Morgan is represented by a competent product liability lawyer,
he
or
>she will mine this RV-List for information that he or she can use in
support
>of the case against Van's Aircraft. Please, everyone, be aware of
that.
I was concerned about this on the first round of "what could have
happened" discussions. Those what if questions are in the archives for
the lawyers to use just as the media does, pick out what they want to be
heard and ignore the disproven theories.
>I believe a suit such as the one being debated could have a
>very serious effect on Van's Aircraft - one that could easily threaten
>their survival - regardless of whether they have insurance coverage or
not,
I don't know, but I assume Van's knew this would come eventually and was
prepared, although I would have guessed from a builders widow. I'm sure
they will let everyone know if they are in trouble. The fact is that
from the time the crash took place until the time the test were complete
it drastically effected sales in the entire industry. We all wanted to
know what happened, now I think it is pretty undisputed. The design of
the airplane was not at fault, and lets not give new builders the
impression that it may have been, or that the company is in trouble
until we know the facts.
Somebody is going to say it so it may as well be me. I do have a vested
interest in seeing Van's continue to do well, as do the dozens of
spin-off companies that support Van's products, as does anyone with a
kit under construction. Heck anyone who has flown one most likely has a
pretty serious addiction now and needs to depend on their dealer! :)
Seriously just think about your post before you send it.
Mike (This e-mail sat in my drafts box overnight before I decided to
send it) Lauritsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight insurance |
I didn't participate in any EAA programs, although I would have
if there was one available. I got insurance through AON (Now
AOPA?). My plane was covered from the first flight. I now have
coverage through SKYSMITH (AIG), and I believe he said they also
cover from the first flight. The only thing about skysmith, is I
have yet to see my policy after over 3 months of signing with
them. Probably no biggy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Backlit Panel Overlay WebPage |
Steve Davis, who is doing my backlit engraved overlay finally has a webpage
for you all to see.
http://members.aol.com/PANELCUT/
He does some great work...check it out.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian <brodg(at)TEXAS.net> |
| Subject: | Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
Listers,
I have made an unsuccessful archive search for an electronic version of
Van's current catalog order form (page 50). The website says that it
was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
can print the form, but cannot create a modifiable (name, address, etc)
electronic version to fax back. I don't have ready access to an
external fax or scanner.
Has anyone got an Excel or Word electronic version of that order form
that they could send me? I'd like to get started in the RV world !
Thanks,
Brian (not gonna build my father's definition of an RV!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
> Was with a group of builders last night talking to the FAA inspector
> about all the red tape and he brought up something interesting that I
> thought was worth sharing. Mr. Inspector says that if you plan on doing
> aerobatics with your pride and joy, you must do ALL of the manuevers you
> plan on doing, during your flight testing time in the test area. So,
> LEGALLY if you plan on doing aerobatics,(IMHO), and you don't have any
> aerobatics training under your belt, you should get some so you can
> wring your bird out during testing period or have someone else do it for
> you.
The FAA inspector that did my inspection (from the Spokane Wa FSDO) told me
I could go back to the fight test area and do further testing at any time
in the future. I think the 25 or 40 hours or whatever is a minimum, not a
maximum.
Scott Sawby RV-6A 341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
>Somebody out there knows a lot more about this this than I do. Am I right?
>Fill us in. But no trial attorneys are allowed to answer. You guys need to do
>society a favor and get a real job... something productive.
Having spent more than a few years working in accident
analysis and producing video presentations to illustrate
and demonstrate results of the analysis,
I've come to have a slightly different view of the
current state of affairs in our courts . . .
Everybody should have access to the courts for possible
redress of grievances and injury . . . if it takes a
contingency program to bring justice to the truly
worthy and needy of our citizens so be it. IMNSHO
the real problem lies with the selection of juries.
I've seen cases where BOTH sides were interested in seating
those who were least educated, most impressionable
and least likely to bring reason, logic and lifeskills
to the deliberations.
Too much of what's decided in our courts is based on how
well the actors produce the play . . . an how appreciative
the jury (audience) is for giving them somthing a little more
interesting to watch than television. John Morgan's survivors
didn't build the airplane. They DO know that the machine played
a major role in creating their grief. They deserve
truthful answers to their questions. The courts SHOULD
be a place where the truth can be deduced and acted upon.
Given that current winds seem to be blowing in the direction
of justice by popular poll, I don't hold out much hope
for the system. Van's success or loss in all this will
have to depend on the talents of his own cast of players
who will have to compete with The Practice and NYPD Blues.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 1/13/99 10:02:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, pagan(at)CBOSS.COM
writes:
> Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
> install one that is approved by the Feds?
Mine is from Radio Shack!
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight insurance (long) |
Adrian,
It is actually a bit early to get into the EAA flight advisor program. As
someone else answered, get involved with the Tech Counselor program now. To
qualify for the first flight insurance program offered by Avemco, you must
have 3 Tech Counselor visits documented throughout the building process and
then meet with a Flight Advisor prior to the first flight. This will then
also entitle you to a discount on your premium, possibly even a higher
discount by also being a Chapter member.
The Flight Advisor program is designed to help the pilot conduct a
self-evaluation as well as evaluate the flying characteristics of the
aircraft. The pilot will then (hopefully) use that evaluation to decide
whether he is capable of flying that airplane during the first few hours.
The Flight Advisor does not fly nor does he actually decide whether or not
the pilot is capable of flying the airplane in question. Using his own
expertise in the area, the Advisor provides the pilot with the pros and cons
as they relate to this specific combination of pilot and airplane. The pilot
himself makes the final decision on how to proceed with the flight testing
program. However, nothing prohibits the Flight Advisor from making the first
flight if asked by the builder. The FA will then become an individual, i.e.
no longer representing the EAA, and test pilot for the builder.
I would like to advise every builder to use this program. It doesn't cost
anything, except your time and maybe a cup of coffee or two. Think of it as
another set of eyes looking over your project to make sure nothing is
missed. A few years ago, the FAA told EAA that over 20% of all homebuilt
accidents occurred during the first two flights. Since the program started
in '95, the numbers have gone down on first flight accidents. The FA will
help you in this area by presenting a suggested flight plan for the flight
testing program. He can help you use your aircraft as a simulator (which you
most likely already have been doing), practice emergency procedures, select
an airport for the first flight (do you really want to fly out of the local
airport with no Crash/Fire/Rescue facilities available, or only 2500 feet of
runway available?), and develop a plan for quickly getting out of the
aircraft.
Above all, don't let your flying skills rust away during that last six-nine
months of building. Or if you are unable to fly and build concurrently,
finish the airplane and then get some dual in a comparable aircraft, or call
up Mike Seager thru Van's and get some RV time!
Hope this helps. Good luck with your project.
Gary Baker
CFII, Flight Advisor
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
>
>Sorry, I can't make any sense from the archives. I've got
>two questions. First, I've got my emp kit finished. Is it
>too late to get into the EAA flight advisor program?
>Second, assuming I don't get involved in the programs, CAN I
>get first flight insurance from anywhere? Third question,
>how many of you know of RV builders who've cracked up the
>plane on the first flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
>
>The FAA inspector that did my inspection (from the Spokane Wa FSDO) told me
>I could go back to the fight test area and do further testing at any time
>in the future. I think the 25 or 40 hours or whatever is a minimum, not a
>maximum.
>
Once you sign your Logbook and certify what ever it is you certify, Your
airplane is no longer in the test phase. I would question how you could
"legally" expand the envelope without being in the test phase.
I had a previous homebuilt that no one had bothered to do acro during the
test phase. I called the feds and they told me the next time they were in
town they would look at it and issue me a new program letter to do the acro.
They looked at the airplane, 15 minutes max. (looked in the oil door and
moved the stick to make sure the control surfaces went the right way) They
gave me a new letter with a 1 hr requirement. I went out looped, rolled,
hammerhead, inverted flight. I certified that it was done and that was it.
One word of caution, if you have an old set of operating limitations that
you like better than the new ones you may want to give this a second
thought. You will get new operating limitations. This is not a big deal,
unless you have an exp-exhibition class airplane. Then it is a HUGE deal.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
> ----------
> From: Brian[SMTP:brodg(at)TEXAS.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?)
>
>
> Listers,
> I have made an unsuccessful archive search for an electronic version of
> Van's current catalog order form (page 50). The website says that it
> was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
> can print the form, but cannot create a modifiable (name, address, etc)
> electronic version to fax back. I don't have ready access to an
> external fax or scanner.
> Has anyone got an Excel or Word electronic version of that order form
> that they could send me? I'd like to get started in the RV world !
> Thanks,
>
> Brian (not gonna build my father's definition of an RV!)
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Together or Apart? |
>>In prepping my RV-8 for paint, I am wondering whether I should paint the
wings with the wingtips on or off. Also the cowling, wheel pants, and
fairings; should they be on or off? I suppose it could be done either
way, but does anyone know what the professional aircraft painters do?
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com<<
Von,
I just finished shooting my wings, tips, flaps, and ailerons over the holidays.
Personally, I take everything apart that can come apart. It makes for a much
better paint job, IMHO. I just hate to see bolt heads painted.
"Professional" aircraft painters generally take apart as little as absolutely necessary.
Remember their time is money.
BTW, I weighed a wing panel (no tips, ail., or flaps) before and after I painted.
I ended up putting 4.9 lbs of paint (primer not included) on one panel. This
included 2 major colors and a couple of stripes. All colors were butted up
to each other, so this would probably be the same for a one color paint job.
Just another data point for you all out there.
Laird RV6 #22923 Firewall Fwd
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
>
>Listers,
>I have made an unsuccessful archive search for an electronic version of
>Van's current catalog order form (page 50). The website says that it
>was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
>can print the form, but cannot create a modifiable (name, address, etc)
>electronic version to fax back. I don't have ready access to an
>external fax or scanner.
>Has anyone got an Excel or Word electronic version of that order form
>that they could send me? I'd like to get started in the RV world !
>Thanks,
Brian,
Go back to the Downloads page, look at the very first section. Right click
on the form you want (the first section where they all have the ".doc"
extensions which are Word 97 documents). Once you right click choose "Save
target as..." and it will download to whatever directory you have in the
dialog box above it.
Voila!
Regards,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fuselage
Camas, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sylph" <sylph(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit |
I for one am on this list to learn anything and everything I can. Anything
that has potential impact on my planning, building and flying an RV is
important: Even the lawsuit stuff. Of course, legal matters are
uncomfortable issues for everyone. I avoid them like the plague, but when,
as in this case, there is a potential impact on me and my aircraft, my
interest is aroused and I am involved--like it or not. To ignore it would
be to bury my head in the sand and succumb to the conventional wisdom of "no
comment" or the legal equivalent of PC.
I've been hanging around this list for over a year now, and my kit isn't
even ordered yet, but most of you builders and flyers understand me when I
say that in my head, I build it and fly it every day. My RV-8 file is
growing all the time. When it's my turn to actually do it, I will be ready
and prepared to do the best I possibly can.
We've all been taught that preparing for contingencies and possible
emergency situations has more to do with being a good pilot than mastering a
particular skill, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that we are
interested in this--It has the potential of affecting our flight plans. So,
if it relates to Van and has potential impact on my RV-8, I am interested.
I'm willing to sift through irrelevant postings and discard or keep what I
consider relevant to me.
I've read them all, and will continue doing so. My input will be minimal.
Thanks guys,
Michael
Planning my RV-8
Durango, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <hims(at)wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Thank yous for info |
At 06:43 PM 99.01.13 , you wrote:
..... Is it proper form to thank each other for the info or do
>we just take it for granted because that's why we are on the list. ( I am
>of the school that help should be thanked)
>Dan Wiesel
>RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
> skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
>
Hello Dan,
I include my thanks in the request for information itself and/or send a
thank you note to the person off line, i.e. to their email account. If I
have something to add I go through the list. If it is not of a general
interest, I go private.
Of course there are times when I and/or those on the list wished someone
would have stopped me before I hit the send key! : >)
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Wings ... in Proseal procrastination and true cost depression mode.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
So do people use this mostly for passenger entertainment? There is
usually so much chatter on today's crowded frequencies that I would
think the constantly interuptted tunes wouldn't be enjoyable. No?
-Larry, RV-8 emp.
---Rvator97(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> With a PS intercom, the music mutes when you receive or transmit.
Works great.
>
> Walt
> RV-6A 112 hours
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
=
Larry Bowen
larry(at)bowen.com
http://larry.bowen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Skysmith (was first flight insurance) |
>I now have
>coverage through SKYSMITH (AIG), and I believe he said they also
>cover from the first flight. The only thing about skysmith, is I
>have yet to see my policy after over 3 months of signing with
>them. Probably no biggy.
Three months? How do you know if you're insured? I've sent two requests
for insurance quotes for my RV6 to Skysmith and have yet to receive a reply.
Guess I'll stay with my present company.
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Jerry,
Unfortunately like so many in our society today you have fallen prey to the
"if he looks important, and sounds important, He must be important." way of
thinking that has befallen our society today. Unless this guy who spoke to
you and your friends is the one making the decision on your plane (and even
then there are ways around him) I would take his statements at the value of
what they cost you. There are so many bureacrats out there who believe they
have POWER and what they say is LAW that it makes me sick. Now you have
seen many replies to your original post that directly contradict what this
gentleman (I refrained from using the term Bozo!) said. I would tend to
believe that he honestly believes what he said and I would also expect that
he feels that what HE says is law! I would also be willing to bet a good
sum of money that I can find a FISDO office that will directly contradict
what he told you. This guy is in HIS world...(and unfortunately you may be
too) but in the larger world of aviation things may be interpreted quite
differently from what this little demigod thinks is the case. HE made
blanket statements that when circulated among a wider range of his peers
I'm sure would create a large amount of dissent. I would also bet that he
would be very displeased to find any of this out and would "go after" the
messenger instead of trying to discover the real answers through research.
Haven't we learned ANYTHING from the Bob Hoover debacle? Sorry, It
just got to me....AL
(Still personally puting together my IO-360 from parts from Superior and
it's NOT a Lycoming ! I guess it's gonna be an "ALMO IO-360 Custom
Special BitemeFAA go bother someone else I built it myself! C1C/A1D."
experimental engine! Now I have to get a data plate that says that. One
thing is for sure, I'm going to be able to work on it!)
>
>
>Al Mojzisik wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Another little morsel(sp?), he says just because you have a repairmans
>> >certificate doesn't mean you can do work on your engine! But, he also
>> >said that they know what goes on out there. Just a couple of tidbits.
>> >
>> >Jerry Calvert
>> >Edmond Ok -6a wings
>> >
>>
>> Jerry,
>> I don't believe this statement is correct. We are allowed to work on our
>> engines, it's just that they will no longer be considered "certified"
>> unless we have an A&P ticket when we do that work or have the work checked
>> and signed off by an A&P. That is you can work on your engine if you have
>> the repairmans certificate for the aircraft that you are working on. AL
>>
>Al,
>
>I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr. Inspector
>says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
>engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an A&P
>or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
>Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
>accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no pay!!!
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>Hi all,
>
>Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
>install one that is approved by the Feds?
You may install whatever you want in an experimental aircraft but the regs
also say that it is up to the pilot to determine what may be operated
during flight in order to avoid interference with the navigation equipment.
Do be aware that automotive radios are not tested to ensure that they do
not interfere with aircraft navigation radios. You are likely to have a
problem with FM broadcast receivers "leaking" a signal into your nav and
possibly comm receivers. For example, most FM broadcast radios use a 10.7
MHz IF and high-side injection. This means that when the FM receiver is
tuned to 101.1 MHz the local oscillator is set to 101.1 + 10.7 MHz or 111.8
MHz. This just happens to be a VOR frequency. There is a really good
chance that you could hear the FM receiver's local oscillator in your NAV
receiver. If you just happen to be using that VOR for a VOR approach,
there is a good chance that the accuracy of the VOR will be compromised.
CD players are another issue. The microprocessors used in most automotive
radios and CD players have their own oscillators with harmonics running
clear up into the VHF spectrum (maybe). These show up as regularly spaced
weak signals across the band of interest.
So, there can be problems with an automotive-type receiver in an aircraft.
The FAA in its inimitable wisdom just says NO. As an operator of an
experimental aircraft you get to make the decision but please be smart
about it and be aware of the possible problem(s). Flying IFR? Turn off
the entertainment system or check the frequencies you are using to ensure
that the entertainment radio isn't causing a problem.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
And if you think the FSDO is a pain dealing with "Experimental, Amateur
Built," try dealing with the FSDO on "Experimental, Exhibition." With the
RV-4 I can go just about anywhere and do just about anything I want to.
The local FSDO is giving me serious heartburn about flying my CJ-6 to the
next airport over. I now understand why Yak prices are artificially low
when compared to certified airplanes.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Enough! lawsuit) |
Michael,
Whats holding you up? I started my -4 a little over 3 years ago. My
problem has been finances and because of that my building has temporarily
stopped a couple of times while saving for the next big purchase. My
financial situation is really no better now than it was 15 years ago. More
income now, but 2 college age kids.
My only regret is that I didnt start building 15 years ago when I first
started dreaming about it. If your really serious about building an RV (and
apparently you are or wouldnt have stuck it out on the list this long) get
started now! Life's to short to procrastinate! Where there is a will there
is a way!
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>I've been hanging around this list for over a year now, and my kit isn't
>even ordered yet, but most of you builders and flyers understand me when I
>say that in my head, I build it and fly it every day.
>Thanks guys,
>Michael
>Planning my RV-8
>Durango, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight insurance |
You can still get in the "Tech Inspector" program. Be sure to have him
come around at least three times during the construction process. Just
call up any local chapter and get the number of the Tech counselor. I
don't know of any carrier who provides 1st flight insurance without the
three tech counselor visits.
Bill Pagan
wires & instruments & such
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
>Sorry, I can't make any sense from the archives. I've got
>two questions. First, I've got my emp kit finished. Is it
>too late to get into the EAA flight advisor program?
>Second, assuming I don't get involved in the programs, CAN I
>get first flight insurance from anywhere? Third question,
>how many of you know of RV builders who've cracked up the
>plane on the first flight?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Harness <lharness(at)adtauto.com> |
| Subject: | Jon Johansons Seats |
Anyone know where I can order the seats in Jon's RV-4? I've heard I need to
Order through Jon, but noone has been able to furnish me with a contact
Email or phone number etc..
Thanks!
Larry H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
> Can I install an automotive type CD player in my panel or do I have to
> install one that is approved by the Feds?
You can install a TV if you want too. Just be sure to have a sign that says,
EXPERIMENTAL
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
Does anyone know of an in-dash car cd player that is only a cd player and
not an AM/FM/CD combo? Dont imagine I will get much use out of the AM/FM
radio. These CD players use to be available for use as add ons to existing
AM/FM systems and were 1/2 the height of the AM/FM/CD. Havent seen one in a
while and wondered if they are still available.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit) |
Michael, I totally agree with Mike about getting started soon. I first
started dreaming about building in 1962 and actually had a few
components built for a Thorp T-18. For the usually reasons, I put the
dream aside. So, here I am 36 years later with 15 hours on my RV-6A. A
lot of years of enjoyment (I hope) to fly it, but not as many as there
could have been. Go for it!
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
do not archieve
Mike Wills wrote:
>
>
> Michael,
> Whats holding you up? I started my -4 a little over 3 years ago.
> My only regret is that I didnt start building 15 years ago when I first
> started dreaming about it.
>
> >I've been hanging around this list for over a year now, and my kit isn't
> >even ordered yet, but most of you builders and flyers understand me when I
> >say that in my head, I build it and fly it every day.
> >Thanks guys,
> >Michael
> >Planning my RV-8
> >Durango, CO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
Larry,
Do you always have to fly and talk to a controller? Getting into and out of
Class B, C, or D airspace, yes; but unless you filed IFR or want continuous
flight-following on a VFR X-C, why bother? I fly professionally and can't
wait to turn off the radios when I am not in an congested area where I need
to be talking, or at least listening, to ATC. Enjoy the flight!
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
>
>So do people use this mostly for passenger entertainment? There is
>usually so much chatter on today's crowded frequencies that I would
>think the constantly interuptted tunes wouldn't be enjoyable. No?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Please let me know where I can buy these low priced data plate less engines. :-)
I wonder if most RV builders care about data plates.
hal
> BTW, it's been mentioned that we can remove the data plate from the
> engine. If we do that we can work on it as we wish; however, it will
> no longer be a Lycoming and, thus, will be worth less to a prospective
> purchaser.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Flight manuevers during "test" period |
Denver FAA inspector recommended NOT doing aerobatics during 25-hr test
phase in order to get more basic operation/operating things straightened
out. He said that after the test phase, upon a phone call he would
legally put me back into the "test phase" - I could then do whatever
aerobatics I wanted to; log them, them remove myself from that phase of
the trial period. Easy
RV-6A Salida CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Fellow RV'ers
Noticed that gascolator questions still appear occasionally on the list. I
checked the archives and under the title "gascolator" came up with 68
messages. I checked several of these and found a lot of good info but none
addressed the subject in the same way as I have in my installation.
On the initial installation of my engine I mounted the gascolator on the
firewall realizing that it was going to be unhandy to drain. I made a 3/4
hole in the cowling to insert a peice of tubeing to slip over the drain but
found this really a pain to line up.
Over the years I have made it a strict rule to check all drains, wings and
gascolator on the first flight of the day and after every refueling. I
suppose one could say this is over kill with our modern refueling
facilities but this is what I have run into. If the aircraft is parked
outside rain or wash water can enter around the filler caps,condensation
with tanks partly filled. In my case had sloshing compound come loose, and
there is always the possibility of your fuel supplier being a bit careless
checking for water in their storage and pumping some into your tanks. When
this happens it is usually a substantial amount. In any event to check the
gascolator useing these ground rules it needs to be handy to drain.
I moved mine into the gap between the wing and the fuselage (there is a
picture of this on page 10 of the August/96 RVator) it is completely
enclosed in this area with just a short peice of hose protruding through
the lower fairing . I can now drain it by kneeling down at the traiiling
edge of the wing and useing a clear sight fuel tester with a two inch
extension on the probe. P/N05-29700 A/C Spruce
This now puts it in a cool location, greatly reduces the possibility of a
fire in case of a gasket failure or perforation of the bowl due to rust. It
can now be checked without turning the boost pump on provided the fuel
selector is turned on. Other advantages are,fuel goes through it before the
boost pump and it is not pressured up by the boost pump (in the case of
fuel injection can be as high as twenty odd pounds. For me this
installation gives me the most peice of mind.
As to the question of elimenating it and going to inline filters I would be
uncomfortable with this due to the difference in capacity to handle
contaminates.
With my fuel injection system in addition to the gascolator I have a high
capacity Fram filter installed just after the boost pump.
On the safety side I know of two occasions when the bowl on the gascolator
perforated from rust due to lack of servicing. Also I have seen the gasket
become softened when useing auto fuel.
As always this is what has worked best for me and may not be for you. I
guess I tend to be a bit nit picky but as I have found from experience you
go for years without trouble but just get careless one time and it will
grab
Fly safe
Eustace Bowhay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: first flight insurance |
Adrian:
My empennage was also closed by the time I got my first inspection by an
EAA inspector. He was very accommodating and used flashlights to look
inside, no problems there.
Also, I got insurance from Avemco (spelling?) for the build phase, and it
can convert to the flight testing and/or flying phase very easily. To cover
you during the initial flight testing, they simply require that you have 3
technical inspections. Go to the EAA web page and or the Avemco web page
you wrote:
>
>Sorry, I can't make any sense from the archives. I've got
>two questions. First, I've got my emp kit finished. Is it
>too late to get into the EAA flight advisor program?
>Second, assuming I don't get involved in the programs, CAN I
>get first flight insurance from anywhere? Third question,
>how many of you know of RV builders who've cracked up the
>plane on the first flight?
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit |
I agree with Micheal on this one. While we should not panic and rush to
conclusions, this is a critical issue to all of us.
This has been hurting Van's since the day of the crash, I for one,
delayed my decision to jump in by about 3 months because of it. This
lawsuit is making it worst, whether Van's wins or not, many potential
buyers must be waiting, or looking somewhere else right now.
Although it is true that the RV line will never disappear, with 7000+
out there being built right now, there could still be sgnificant
disruption. I personnaly plan to buy the remainder of my kit earlier
than expected both to protect myself, and to hopefully help Van's
financially and morally.
If anybody doesn't like these "lawsuit" posts, they can always delete
them. Personally, I think they are just as important as any others.
Sylvain
Bellevue, WA
RV-8, Wings
I've read them all, and will continue doing so. My input will be
minimal.
Thanks guys,
Michael
Planning my RV-8
Durango, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
Personally, I plan to use my portable MiniDisc player in my RV-8. I will
just put a "pouch" on one of the side walls, along with power and audio
connections. This way I will not clutter my already "space challenged"
panel, and will not have to buy another piece of gear. It will also save
on weight!
Sylvain
RV-8, Wings
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:35:39 -0800
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: RV-List: CD Player
Does anyone know of an in-dash car cd player that is only a cd player
and
not an AM/FM/CD combo? Dont imagine I will get much use out of the AM/FM
radio. These CD players use to be available for use as add ons to
existing
AM/FM systems and were 1/2 the height of the AM/FM/CD. Havent seen one
in a
while and wondered if they are still available.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | CD Player/MiniDisc |
Mike,
I planning on using one of the new Sony MiniDiscs in my -6. There small, can be
velcroed anywhere, and the discs are recordable. Now I can put all my favorite
music in whatever order I want. I think you can put about 75 min on one disc.
Laird
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit) |
writes:
<< My only regret is that I didnt start building 15 years ago when I first
started dreaming about it. If your really serious about building an RV (and
apparently you are or wouldnt have stuck it out on the list this long) get
started now! Life's to short to procrastinate! Where there is a will there
is a way!
>>
What led me to my first RV was a gent who said (about his -4) that he wished
he had built his ship a LONG time ago. He was 65 or so at the time, and he was
having way too much fun. He wondered what it would have been like to thave one
of those when he was 35.
Hmmmmmm......Get to work! Time's a-wastin' !
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Eustace,
Do you have a gascolator in each wing root? Where is your electric
fuel pump mounted? Would you briefly describe the routing of your fuel
lines. I will soon be installing my fuel system, and I think I will
follow your lead.
Thanks for the information
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage
Columbia, SC
I moved mine into the gap between the wing and the
fuselage (there is a
picture of this on page 10 of the August/96 RVator) it
is completely
enclosed in this area with just a short peice of hose
protruding through
the lower fairing . I can now drain it by kneeling down
at the traiiling
edge of the wing and useing a clear sight fuel tester
with a two inch
extension on the probe. P/N05-29700 A/C Spruce
This now puts it in a cool location, greatly reduces the
possibility of a
fire in case of a gasket failure or perforation of the
bowl due to rust. It
can now be checked without turning the boost pump on
provided the fuel
selector is turned on. Other advantages are,fuel goes
through it before the
boost pump and it is not pressured up by the boost pump
(in the case of
fuel injection can be as high as twenty odd pounds. For
me this
installation gives me the most peice of mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing) |
> And if you think the FSDO is a pain dealing with "Experimental, Amateur
> Built," try dealing with the FSDO on "Experimental, Exhibition."
I'm not normally one to defend the FAA, but it occurs to me that some
FSDOs (or some individual FSDO employees) are giving all of them a bad
name, perhaps unfairly. I haven't gotten my plane inspected yet but
there are a lot of RVers around here who go through the PDX FSDO, and
everyone I've talked to about it came away thinking of it as a positive
experience, with no nonsense about TSOd equipment or certified engines,
etc.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansons Seats |
In a message dated 1/14/99 3:21:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lharness(at)adtauto.com writes:
<< Anyone know where I can order the seats in Jon's RV-4? I've heard I need to
Order through Jon, but noone has been able to furnish me with a contact
Email or phone number etc..
Thanks!
Larry H.
>>
You might want to wait a few for that. I am developing a seat for the RV4, RV8
, and the Rocket that is an incredible seat. It has been engineered, made from
kevlar and Carbon fiber, weighs less than 6 pounds, and I will introduce it at
this years Sun-n-Fun. Look for me in the TEAM- ROCKET tent located across from
the FAA building.
Scott Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
Guys
I have the PS Engineering 6000 Stero Audio Panel in my Seneca -it has the
imputs for a Stero & Cell Phone all of which can be muted when ATC comes on or
you transmitt.
But once again you have to stop singing befor you transmitt........
Bill Sivori
BSivori(at)AOl.COM
N929RV ( Reseved )
Wings Closed Buildng Fuse Jig
N15035 Seneca 1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Please let me know where I can buy these low priced data plate less
>engines. :-)
>
>I wonder if most RV builders care about data plates.
>
>hal
Bart Lalonde's engines are data plateless in the sense they do not have
Lycoming data plates. They have Aerosport Power data plates. I do not
worry about the airworthiness or resaleability of my Aerosport Power
0-360.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q N441LP Cowl
Pacer N8025D For Sale http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Skysmith (was first flight insurance) |
| From: | Paul Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
>I've sent two requests
>for insurance quotes for my RV6 to Skysmith and have yet to receive a reply.
>Guess I'll stay with my present company.
I asked for quotes on my flying Baking Duce and my almost done 6A last
year. I got a quote that was more than Avemco on the RV and never got an
answer on the Duce. Rats...It sounded like the way to go from what I read
on the RVlist but may not be so good for me.
Paul 6a IO360 in Michigan ( can you spell ccccold?)
"The bassoon is one of my favorite instruments. It has the medieval
aroma, like the days when everything used to sound like that. Some people
crave baseball . . . I find this unfathomable, but I can easily
understand why a person could get excited about playing the bassoon."
Frank Zappa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Adrian Chick wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr. Inspectir
> > says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
> > engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an A&P
> > or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
> > Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
> > accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no pay!!!
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
> >
>
> I think that the fact that the FAA chooses not to pursue you guys who work on
> your own engines has nothing to do with the contract between you and your
> insurance carrier regarding what they will cover and what they won't. The FAA
is
> not the one who insures your airplane. I'm simply suggesting that each person
> check his particular policy and give it some thought. It's worth the phone call
> don't you think?
>
Adrian,
Hope I didn't mislead what you meant when I relayed your thoughts on the
issue. When it comes to your insurance, I agree that the coverage
policy lays out the rules. I simply meant that there can be things that
we do that is illegal in the FAA's eyes that can also be grounds for an
non-pay on your insurance in the event of an accident. Sorry for any
inconvenience.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing) |
Randall Henderson wrote:
> I'm not normally one to defend the FAA, but it occurs to me that some
> FSDOs (or some individual FSDO employees) are giving all of them a bad
> name, perhaps unfairly.
The problem is that each FSDO is allowed to interpret the guidelines for
dealing with experimental aircraft. The guy from the FSDO took two
hours to talk about the guidelines (I really liked him -- he is a
hard-core war bird buff who restores aircraft as a hobby and isn't a
know-nothing bureaucrat) and show me where they are in conflict with
themselves. It is just frustrating when there is no consistency.
In the case of "Experimental, Amateur Built" aircraft, the EAA has done
a lot to get things standardized. War birds and noncertifed aircraft
from other countries are the orphan children.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax
O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Stucklen, Frederic IFC wrote:
>
>
>*****snip*****
> His retort was "All engines require a data tag!", to which I
> replied, "What would you like it to say? This engine no longer meets the
> requirements of a certified engine and therefore IS Experimental..."
>
> ****snip****
>
> The bottom line is that my engine's tag now says "Manufacture: FW
> STUCKLEN Type: O-320-D1A" and I can work on it legally AND be
> insured..... ( I even kept the original S/N...)
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV RV-6A
> E. Windsor, Ct
> 1300+ Hrs/5+Yrs
>
Fred,
The inspector we visited with said the same thing. He wants data on all
engines. We asked what we should do if it was taken off. He said to
make a new one or he would even accept data metal-stamped on the
engine. He really didn't care about what the data said as much as he
did that the fact that the data just existed.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
I decided not to use the F682 channel console and used the horizontal under
inst panel mount for throttle, prop, mixture, and carb heat. Well this
looks ok except now I don't know what to do with the wiring (Elect flaps,
elect elev trim, strobes, nav and landing lights) which come out the center
bottom of fuselage (main spar). I tried running them along the spar behind
part of the landing gear and up the side however if this method is used all
connections would have to be disconnected from the panel when the gear is
removed. (On temporary spar at present). Or the F682 channel console
could be installed after all, just to run the wires up behind the inst
panel. Has anyone walked this path before. TU
RV6A
Planejoe/finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Maintenance |
I just looked through the FAR's and Advisory Circulars - (including AC 65-23A
-Certification of Repairmen Experimantal Aircraft Builders) No mention of
limitations to engine work with a repairman license. If this is indeed a rule
then could you get your DAR to tell us where it is written.
Do not archieve
Dave Beizer
Moreno Valley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Strickland" <eric.strick(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Together or Apart? |
They should be off !
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: n41va(at)Juno.com <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Paint Together or Apart?
>
>In prepping my RV-8 for paint, I am wondering whether I should paint the
>wings with the wingtips on or off. Also the cowling, wheel pants, and
>fairings; should they be on or off? I suppose it could be done either
>way, but does anyone know what the professional aircraft painters do?
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Guys,
This thread on Engine Data Plates, The FAA and The Insurance company
is interesting. Especially since I've been there and I've done that. The FAA's
position is that anything found on the engine that isn't certified for that engine
and
wasn't serviced by an A&P means the engine has been reconfigured from what
Lycoming originally intended to be a certified engine. That being the case, if
you
alter that engine, you have canceled your airworthiness certificate. When you
do that, your insurance company is no longer obligated to assume damages
if you have an accident.
When I put 160 hp cylinders on an 0-320 E3D, that nullified my airworthiness
certificate. Lycoming didn't make a 160 hp 0-320 E3D. To keep it legal I would
have had to buy an STC and have a A&P overhaul my engine.
All the people that think an insurance company will pay up on a claim that
they can get out of paying. RAISE YOUR HAND
There's a right way and a wrong way to go about things. Hashing this out on
the RV list will get you nothing but trouble if you depend on Joe Blows information
to decide your airplanes airworthiness condition.
In my case I had to send the FAA all the documentation on the parts I used
in the engine overhaul, all their releases and they still called ECI to validate
a discrepancy in the paperwork. They wanted to make sure what I had done
when I overhauled this engine was proper. After that, they issued me a new
test period and a new airworthiness certificate. Plus, I had to remove my data
plate.
The FAA has a list of every nut, bolt and cotter pin, in or around my airplane.
I sent the same information to my insurance company for review also.
Avemco says, as long as the FAA deems my aircraft airworthy and I haven't
done anything to cause it to lose it's airworthness certificate, it's insured.
If you have doubts about your airplanes considered airworthiness by the FAA
or your insurance company, now is the time to correct that. Sure it takes time
and effort to get this done. But if something does happen you don't want to end
up like the guy in California that crashed his airplane and found out he didn't
have insurance because of a change he had made to his fuel line.
Sorry for the long post
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skysmith (was first flight insurance) |
Have you tried his 800 number lately?. He got back to me almost
instantly with a quote, when I called him.
________________________________________________________________________________
my boost pump is mounted in the cockpit in the compartment with the front
stick and fuel selector. and guess what? my gascolator is mounted there also!
wow.
but seriously... the gascolator is mounted *directly to* the outlet of the
four port selector with a brass fitting (the selector is in the exact middle
and points to the tank in use -including my removeable 12 gal rear seat aux).
the line from the gascolator curves around to an interruptor type facet pump
(which is mounted as low as it will go) then from the pump to the f'wall and
beyond. no gascolator to cool in the engine compartment. no gascolator hanging
down to be broken open in a crash. less fuel pressure on the gascolator
encouraging it to leak. no funky bracket. one less thing forward of the
f''wall. slicker n' snot. simple and clean looking installation. works great.
the drain outlet is plumbed thru a -4 low pressure (303?) aeroquip hose about
6" long back to a brass drain fitting in the floor (which i soldered mounting
ears to). to open and clean the gasco i turn the fuel off, open the drain
fitting and loosen the bail on the gascolator while sitting in the pilot's
seat. i leave the hose connected...
oh by the way, i am currently adding a vapor return line -back to my (low
pressure side of the pump) gascolator.
advice for rv plumbers ... buy lots of extra tubing -you'll need it. ...if I
only had a buck for every inch of tubing i turned to scrap...
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | ACS Control Cables for sale |
I have extra ACS type throttle and mixture cables that I can't use.
These are custom length versions of the A-750 and A-800 cables (pg.
147 of the current ACS catalog), with P/O covers, telescoping 10-32
ends, and threaded attachment sleeves.
They are NEW (Feb. 1998 manufacture), albiet a little scuffed from
trial fitting. I will sell them each for $35 including shipping --
less than half what I paid for them. The specs are as follows:
Throttle Cable (Black, friction lock, ACS A-750)
43" overall
2 1/2" throw
threaded sleeve at 35 1/2"
P/O cover
10-32 end
Basically the same as Van's "CT BLK THROTTLE 42.5", but 1/2" longer.
Mixture Cable (Red, vernier, ACS A-800)
58" long
1 5/8" throw
threaded sleeve at 51 1/2"
P/O cover
10-32 end
Similar to Van's "CT RED VMIXTURE" but different length and throw.
NOTE: The throw on the mixture control is set up for the MA4-5 carb
with the SHORT mixture control arm, which is NOT standard on the
carbeurators that come on Van's O-360-A1A, but may be used on this
carb or other versions of it. If you think you might want this cable,
be sure to measure the throw on your carb. The throttle control is
set up for standard throw for the MA4-5.
Contact me OFF LINE at randall(at)edt.com if interested.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Cy:
This is very clear cut, anyone or anything can work on an experimental
aircraft. There are NO I repeat NO requirements for working on and
signing off an experimental aircraft, your dog can do it. Reference FAR
Part 43.1(b) "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an
experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued...."
The amateur-built repairman certificate is only, I repeat ONLY, for
signing off an annual condition inspection. Further the only reason a
repairman certificate or an A&P certificate is needed for the annual
condition inspection is because the operating limitations of the
aircraft requires it. It is not a requirement of the FAR's as Part 43
does not apply. Many people forget that for experimental aircraft most
of the rules for maintaining and operating the aircraft come from the
"operating limitations" not the FAR's. The operating limitations are
part of the airworthiness certificate and the airworthiness of the
aircraft is dependant on compliance with the operating limitations. The
ability for the FAA to issue operating limitations come from FAR Part
91.319(e).
Earl Lawrence
EAA
PS yes, you can post this answer.
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight testing
>
>Adrian Chick wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Al,
>> >
>> > I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr.
Inspectir
>> > says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
>> > engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an
A&P
>> > or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
>> > Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
>> > accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no
pay!!!
>> >
>> > Jerry Calvert
>> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I think that the fact that the FAA chooses not to pursue you guys who
work on
>> your own engines has nothing to do with the contract between you and your
>> insurance carrier regarding what they will cover and what they won't.
The FAA is
>> not the one who insures your airplane. I'm simply suggesting that each
person
>> check his particular policy and give it some thought. It's worth the
phone call
>> don't you think?
>>
>
>Adrian,
>
>Hope I didn't mislead what you meant when I relayed your thoughts on the
>issue. When it comes to your insurance, I agree that the coverage
>policy lays out the rules. I simply meant that there can be things that
>we do that is illegal in the FAA's eyes that can also be grounds for an
>non-pay on your insurance in the event of an accident. Sorry for any
>inconvenience.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Strickland" <eric.strick(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough! lawsuit |
I haven't looked at other aircraft because of the lawsuit ! I'm trying to
get my stuff together to go to the city and have garage #2 built so I can
build an RV !
I have bids on the slab and have a framer/contractor coming over Saturday !
I haven't even flown in an RV but I don't care . Too many people have too
many good things to say about the RV . As for the "Crash" I'm sorry it
happened . I just started taking flying lessons and if I took this as an
example of what could happen to me I'd quit ! Airplanes crash for whatever
reason . My mom said "Those planes are dangerous !" . HA she just flew to
Cali. and back ! I asked her : How did you get to Cali. and back ? See my
point ? I've always wanted to fly but did nothing about it due to the
expense . I'm 33 and not getting any younger ! If they put every car
crash/lawsuit on T.V. we wouldn't see anything else or drive for that
matter! So be positive ! Accidents happen and people are injured or die ,
it's part of life and we must move on and fullfill our hopes and dreams !
Which mine is to fly ! My son (12) loves to fly and he will help me build an
RV . I wish my dad would have fullfilled his dream to fly but he chose not
too,not me I'm going to fly ! My .02
Eric C. Strickland
Dallas,Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Sylvain Duford <sduford(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Enough! lawsuit
>
>I agree with Micheal on this one. While we should not panic and rush to
>conclusions, this is a critical issue to all of us.
>
>This has been hurting Van's since the day of the crash, I for one,
>delayed my decision to jump in by about 3 months because of it. This
>lawsuit is making it worst, whether Van's wins or not, many potential
>buyers must be waiting, or looking somewhere else right now.
>
>Although it is true that the RV line will never disappear, with 7000+
>out there being built right now, there could still be sgnificant
>disruption. I personnaly plan to buy the remainder of my kit earlier
>than expected both to protect myself, and to hopefully help Van's
>financially and morally.
>
>If anybody doesn't like these "lawsuit" posts, they can always delete
>them. Personally, I think they are just as important as any others.
>
>Sylvain
>Bellevue, WA
>RV-8, Wings
>
>
>
>
>I've read them all, and will continue doing so. My input will be
>minimal.
>
>Thanks guys,
>Michael
>Planning my RV-8
>Durango, CO
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Rivet on Rear Spar |
Hello Listers:
I screwed-up the bottom rivet on the inboard rib/rear spar, TWICE. So
now I have a badly elongated hole on the rib that the -4 shop head
doesn't completely cover.
My question is, should I:
A: leave it alone
B: use a -5 rivet
C: put in an AN3 bolt
D: ?????
Thanks,
Sylvain
RV-8 #47, Right Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skysmith (was first flight insurance) |
MICHAEL wrote:
>
>
> Have you tried his 800 number lately?. He got back to me almost
> instantly with a quote, when I called him.
>
>
Not only did Scott get right back to me, Skysmith was 900$ lower
than the 2500$ Avemco wanted
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH flying
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing) |
In a message dated 1/14/99 2:07:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, randall(at)edt.com
writes:
<< (or some individual FSDO employees) are giving all of them a bad
name, perhaps unfairly. >>
There's alot of truth to that. Our FSDO folks out here around Seattle are
quite informative, and they seem to be realistic about things. They show up
at the EAA Fly-In Northwest, and do not seem like to folks that some others
have had the misfortune to have to deal with. It might pay to get to know who
they are "before" you really need them for anything important. Might make a
difference.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
IN MY Opinion placing a part of the fuel system that can easily leak in the
cabin is NOT very good. It is like refueling a boat. The gasoline fumes and
vapors collect in the bottom of the cabin just waiting for a spark or other
ignition source to blow then whole thing up. In boats, they have a
ventilation fan to purge the fumes.
You are going to say there is no sparks in your cabin... then every switch
is explosion proof?
Your idea of having nothing hanging down to break off is great, but bringing
the gascolator into the cabin could create more of a problem. Gascolators
do leak, that is why certified planes have them in front of the fire wall.
For your sake I wish you would re-think your decision.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rv4flyr(at)aol.com <Rv4flyr(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
>
>my boost pump is mounted in the cockpit in the compartment with the front
>stick and fuel selector. and guess what? my gascolator is mounted there
also!
>wow.
>
>but seriously... the gascolator is mounted *directly to* the outlet of the
>four port selector with a brass fitting (the selector is in the exact
middle
>and points to the tank in use -including my removeable 12 gal rear seat
aux).
>the line from the gascolator curves around to an interruptor type facet
pump
>(which is mounted as low as it will go) then from the pump to the f'wall
and
>beyond. no gascolator to cool in the engine compartment. no gascolator
hanging
>down to be broken open in a crash. less fuel pressure on the gascolator
>encouraging it to leak. no funky bracket. one less thing forward of the
>f''wall. slicker n' snot. simple and clean looking installation. works
great.
>the drain outlet is plumbed thru a -4 low pressure (303?) aeroquip hose
about
>6" long back to a brass drain fitting in the floor (which i soldered
mounting
>ears to). to open and clean the gasco i turn the fuel off, open the drain
>fitting and loosen the bail on the gascolator while sitting in the pilot's
>seat. i leave the hose connected...
>
>oh by the way, i am currently adding a vapor return line -back to my (low
>pressure side of the pump) gascolator.
>
>advice for rv plumbers ... buy lots of extra tubing -you'll need it. ...if
I
>only had a buck for every inch of tubing i turned to scrap...
>
>Scott
>N4ZW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DWAIN L. HARRIS" <102617.2606(at)compuserve.com> |
To All You Builders
During the building of my 6 I would listen to my favorite songs an dream of
the
day I would listen to them in the air. When that day came it gave me a lump
in my throat an I looked all around an felt part of the wild blue yonder .
When my Wingman (Walt ) an I are out cruising around sometimes we
just
don't talk and listen to music . I can always tell when Walt is Rocking
Because
his head starts to bobbin. Just keep dreaming guys
Dwain
N164DH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Thank yous for info |
January 10, 1999 - January 14, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ge