RV-Archive.digest.vol-ii

April 14, 2000 - April 22, 2000



      > and have a chance to fly with it, I will report on it to the List.
      >
      > Jay had some other really interesting things to say.  If, like me, you are
      just
      > getting started on your project, and you won't be flying it for at least two
      > years, don't buy any avionics yet.  Jay said that within the next one or two
      > years, we will see a new type of computer on the market that will be approx.
      5-6"
      > high, 6-7" wide, about 1/2-1" thick, and mostly screen, with the screen
      measuring
      > about 5" by 6".  They will have processor speeds and RAM comparable to our
      > desktop computers.  They will sell for well under $1000.  Control Vision is
      > already working on software for these that will make it a complete
      multi-function
      > display for aircraft.  The software will probably sell for under $300.  They
      are
      > even looking into putting all engine functions on the MFD, and possibly even
      a
      > flight instrument display similar to the ArcAngel system (of course, you would
      > need the attitude sensors in the wingtips, etc).  Their goal is a complete
      glass
      > cockpit for homebuilts at a dirt cheap price.  I hope they succeed.  While
      it's
      > unlikely that the FAA would ever approve a Windows based computer for IFR, it
      > would be great for enroute navigation and greatly enhanced situational
      awareness
      > in most circumstances that I can think of.
      >
      > George True
      >
      >
      > Shelby Smith wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> ----------
      >> >From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
      >> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
      >> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 295
      >> >Date: Thu, Apr 13, 2000, 3:43 PM
      >> >
      >>
      >> >
      >> > I attended SNF today and bought the 295 from Gulf Coast Avionics for $1299,
      >> > no tax, and walked away with it.
      >> >
      >> > Len Leggette, RV-8A
      >> > North Carolina (N901LL res)
      >> > Fuselage
      >> >
      >>
      >> I am really impressed with the Garmin unit, but the unit I really like is
      >> the one from Control Vision. Anyone bought one of these yet?
      >>
      >> http://www.controlvision.com/map.htm
      >>
      >> looks neat and surely will be upgradable with other functions available too.
      >>
      >> I just bought a Lowrance 100, which I like, but for $350 more that looks
      >> pretty good.
      >>
      >> --
      >> Shelby Smith
      >> shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com
      >> RV6A - Skinning Fuselage - 200HP
      >> N95EB - reserved
      >>
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Heated Pitot Tube
Date: Apr 14, 2000
I built my own heated pitot tube mounting bracket for cheap. I started with a piece of streamlined steel tubing from Aircraft Spruce (min order size 12"). I went to a metal shop and offered $10 to get it welded but the nice man there wouldn't take my money. I rivited it directly to the skin just behind the spar. It had some movement to it so I braced it with a small run of angle up to the spar. It got very firm. I then flaired in the mast to the skin. It got painted with the wing before the pitot tube was installed. It looks great and very custom. Norman Hunger RV6A Delta, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Static Lines
Date: Apr 13, 2000
Great idea Gordon but I am building in Canada with the intent to be legal flying in the IFR system. We are forced by Transport Canada to meet the same standards and equipment minimums as certified IFR aircraft. It has to be a valve. Perhaps Kevin can add some thing here??? I am not quite there yet, but I will eventually put an alternate static source > on my airplane. Rather than going through the trouble, complexity, and weight > of a valve & fitting set, how about the following: > > Put a "T" inline on the static line. Thread a cap onto the unused port of the > "T". Use copper "breakaway" safety wire to keep the cap from backing off. It > is simple and effective as long as you can easily get to it. > > > > I'm trying to hook up a small fuel valve to act a an alternate static air > > source. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: Heated Pitot tube mounting brackets]]
Thanks Kevin for putting my GPS TAS calculation paper up on your site, it sits amongst many other extremely valuable flight test resources. If you have any thoughts of an honest evaluation of your aircraft's performance this site is a 'must visit'. http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/ssec.html. Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: RV-X
I cannot understand why Vans has not taken the RV8 fuse and added a few inches in width to turn it into a four place. So far as I understand the RV8, the centre mainspar carry though section would be easily extended and the wings would be sufficiently strong for say 4 G at the increased max all up weight. Back of an envelope calcilations do support this wing loading. It seems too obvious to me and I thought that was what Vans had in mind from the outset. Doug Gray RV 6 wings. Sydney Australia. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-X
> I cannot understand why Vans has not taken the RV8 fuse and added a few > inches in width to turn it into a four place. Ken Scott at Vans has always been a strong advocate that "there will never be a 4 place from Vans". In fact, the closer Van was to over hearing the conversation, the more adamant he became. Last year at Oshkosh, Ken and I were having the same conversation. He was getting hot on his "beat up Bonanza" theory. I was wanting to write a check. Van was 2 feet away smiling. The only exception was when Ken and I were on the phone a while back. Apparently Van was nowhere in sight. I asked Ken if the RV-8 was a predecessor to a 4 place. (new wing, larger cabin, getting accustomed to bigger engines, etc...) "No", Ken said, "not the 8; If anything is a predecessor to the 4 place it's the RV-9". Go figure. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian and Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl hinge pins
Date: Apr 14, 2000
> On 12 Apr 00, at 17:53, Stephen J. Soule wrote: > > > I also don't see any > > info about how to secure those top pins. How did the rest of you do it? > > > That means that I will need to bend some sort of handle in the free ends > > to provide a good grip. What do you experience builders advise? > > Don't forget that the hinge pin across the top is an undersize pin. > This undersized pin presents a minor problem. You have a nice tight fit of cowl to metal and then insert the undersized pin and a gap opens up. There is a solution. The pins only need to be undersized where they go around the curve. I took 1/8 ' pins and tapered the last 10 or 12 inches to 3/32 " by spinning them in a hand drill and holding them against a belt sander. A little hand sanding with 400 grit wet or dry cleaned them up. They are easy to insert and hold the cowl edge in tight to the metal. As for securing them, I just put a 90 degree bend in one to make a handle about an inch long and a loop in the other. There is enough flex to just stick the the 90 degree handle in the loop. 300 hrs, no problems. Scott Sawby RV 6A 341SS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: accelerator pump ?
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Hi all, Can anyone confirm that the new O-360 engines from Van's come with accelerator pumps in the carbs? I'm pretty sure they do, but I sure can't tell from looking at the carb. FWIW, the carb is an MA-4-5, part number 10-3878, SN 75089104. Thanks, Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (Baffles- day 6 of torture) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-X
Why not just strech the -8 and make it a tandem four-seater? You'd have to place your passengers and baggage carefully, of course. I cannot understand why Vans has not taken the RV8 fuse and added a few inches in width to turn it into a four place. snip< ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116)
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Electric Gyros
Mark Curley wrote: > > > > > I requested info from ACS about the $995 electric attitude gyros that > they > > > have begun to carry. Today I received a photocopy of some information on > > at. > > > There is no mention of where it is made or if it is IFR certified. > > > > Just a small nit -- this myth of IFR certification for all different > > instruments and radios seems to persist.... for most instruments and > radios > > there is no such thing as "IFR certification". TSO compliance (a testing > > standard) is what you're looking for but even that is not strictly > required > > to use the thing for IFR. Probably should, but not in the US regs. > > > > > > Why is it then that the GPS untis have to be IFR Certified? > > Mark > RV-6 Wanabe > > If you're REALLY interested in IFR GPS: 1. They must be approved in compliance with Technical Standard Order C-129 and; 2. Installed via FAA AC 20-138 (which any avionics shop should have). In a "standard" (spamcan) airplane the uses allowed for the GPS installation are listed in the Aircraft Flight Manual (we're in the big leagues, here, no wimpy little POH will do). Most IFR GPS installations require an altitude input via Mode C altimeter and some units require the altimeter setting when they're first turned on. The IFR GPS must also be able to monitor the integrity (RAIM) of the signals its gets from the available satellites (5 required, 6 is even better. But, altho we are told by the Guvment that 5 satellites will always be available for tracking that is not always true and in that case the GPS blinks a warning light or even takes itself out of approach mode. The IFR GPS must also be able to predict satellite position and RAIM availability at your destination at the time specified. Sometimes the satellites are "down" for system checks or software changes and you can ge this info from DUATS or your FSS weather person. That is one reason that you are allowed to use the IFR GPS as a sole source for enroute and nonprecision approaches you still must have conventional IFR/VOR backup equipment onboard. The GPS signal is a very weak one and I have heard, tho not experienced, that heavy cloud cover and a low satellite angle can degrade the signal enough to trigger the RAIM sensor. Boyd RV S6 Venice, FL Flying--day VFR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Caribbean travel questions
I picked up some info the other day about a Caribbean Fly-in that seems to be an annual junket put on by an outfit called Panama Aviation out of Panama City, FL. It's 15 days of island hopping from Thanksgiving to the middle of December. It seems to be a reasonable price, two routes to choose from, 1495 per person and 1895 per person if you go all the way to Venezuela. You provide the plane and your gas and some meals and the trip provides the Tour Guides/flight directors, lodging and some meals. Now I can't get Jimmy Buffet out of my head.. Questions for y'all: This is billed as the 23rd trip. Have any of you heard of this from others that have gone or gone yourself and is it a good report? I'm not usually into being pampered (maybe I won't be) but it sounds like a good way to learn the ins and outs of flying in the Caribbean? Some one mentioned to me that this was written up in an aviation publication a few months back. Does anyone know what publication and issue? I'm digging into this. Since we would be starting out in Portland, Oregon, it would end up being a four week jaunt for Diana and I in the RV-4 and I would probably have to look for work when I got back (if I came back). Any info that you might have would be appreciated. I've already got the faxed info, itinerary, and registration form from the company. Blue skies, Mike Mike McGee jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com RV-4: N996RV A ship in port is safe but that's not what ships are for. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: beginners questions
Date: Apr 14, 2000
The EAA is currently running 1/2 of on all books and tapes until May 31st. You can get the Bengalis 4 book set for $40 (normally &79.95) See your Chapter President. Ed Cole EAA Chapter 338 President RV6A Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: <pcondon(at)csc.com> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 1:04 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: beginners questions Get EAA's four Tony Benglaias (I murdered the spelling on his name). They are basically the bibles--good initial reading and for reference. Get Elect's bob's book too. You will never regret purchasing these books.....unless you loan them out and never get them back....... grobdriver(at)yahoo.com on 04/13/2000 09:26:16 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: beginners questions > Needless to say my wife is a little nervous about my project. I want > to build a safe aircraft. > I don't have any sheet metal experience and I have a few questions I > would like to ask and a lot that I don't even know to ask. > Are there any aircraft sheet metal books that you can recommend or > any other books that would be beneficial to me? There are several > listed in the manual are these the best? Where can I get this type > of books? I don't want to make stupid mistakes. Face it - you're going to make stupid mistakes. I'm still fixing my last one! :) You just kick yourself, swear not to do it again and drive on. If you want to spend money wisely before building, find a builder's class - I attended George O's weekend class at Hicks. Didn't know squat about metal working then, but I just put my wings in their storage rack last week and am now building up the firewall. Follow the plans and you will end up with a safe aircraft. How you drive it, now, that's up to you! Good luck! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage (been waiting so long to write that!) Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: accelerator pump ?
Russell Duffy wrote: > > Hi all, > > Can anyone confirm that the new O-360 engines from Van's come with accelerator pumps in the carbs? YES > > I'm pretty sure they do, but I sure can't tell from looking at the carb. FWIW, the carb is an > MA-4-5, part number 10-3878, SN 75089104. > > Thanks, > > Russell Duffy > Navarre, FL > RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (Baffles- day 6 of torture) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: STANAIR(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Subject: 4 place RV
Look like a RV-4 Place might be in the works. Heard it at sun-n-fun from a good sorce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 14, 2000
From: "Ray Richardson Jr." <sales(at)powersportaviation.com>
Subject: Powersport's RV-6A Rotary
Dear fellow RV'ers Powersport's Rotary Engine update and more details of our new reduction drive information is now released to our web site. Our trip to the dino demonstrated we have met our 210 HP and 450 ft pounds of torque at a lower 2450 prop rpm. We will post higher horsepower numbers at our 2620 prop rpm rev limit when we complete the higher speed mapping at the end of this month. Also pictures of our RV-6A aircraft are shown with our custom aerodynamic cowl now are shown on our web site. We are building our panel and wiring systems now and are very excited about the soon to be completion of our RV-6A, showcasing our new improved rotary systems design. Click on our site at www.powersportaviation.com Ray Richardson Jr. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Camille Hawthorne" <camillehawthorne(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Compression Riveter
Date: Apr 14, 2000
I have recently acquired 2 tools that the metal shop at Atlantic Aviation was getting rid of: 1. Chicago Pneumatic compression riveter model #CP450. this thing must weigh 400lbs, it looks like a huge rivet squeezer with a 24" reach. It's pneumatic and operated by foot pedal. I guess the squeezer sets fit into it. 2. Roper Whitney metal punch thingy. i've figured this one out, it punches all sorts of holes and oblong holes in metal. It is operated by a long handle, and has about a 12" reach. It came with lots and lots of punches. Bolts to workbench. My question is does it look like i'll be able to use these tools on my RV-6A? Does anyone know anything about these tools? I used to work at Atlantic so I know that they have a tendency to throw away perfectly good tools, so I'm not worried about them being broke. They were probably just replaced with newer models. I have pictures of these tools if anyone would like to see them. Camille Hawthorne N5YR Reserved staring at lots of pieces of aluminum New Castle, Delaware ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Compression Riveter
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Camille, Yes, you will be able to use these tools. There are some subassemblies needing riviting before the assembly is riveted into the airplane. I did these with my hand Tatco squeezer & alot of grunt on the 1/8" rivets. You will eat these for breakfast without second thought with a squeezer like you have. The hole punch will work provided you have the dies for the holes you need. If so, you will save time & eliminate potential for screw-ups. Congrats on your good score. Rick Caldwell RV-6 39.4 hrs Melbourne, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net>
Subject: Re: running lean after vetterman install
Date: Apr 14, 2000
Nope. I even made a bushing to remove the play in the arm. I am hitting the max rich stop. The bracket for mixture was unaffected. -----Original Message----- From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com <BSEckstein(at)cs.com> Date: Thursday, April 13, 2000 8:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: running lean after vetterman install > >Is it possible that in installing the new exhaust, the mixture cable has >moved a bit and is always leaning the mixture? that would cause the problems >you describe. > >Brian Eckstein >6A finishing....... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: My Wultrad Experience. was Electric Gyros
Date: Apr 14, 2000
... > at 25.3 flight hours.... Tach actually seemed to work. Replaced with Made in USA > Mitchell. > > The Mitchell looks better, is better built (at least from the outside), has good > looking faceplate and works noticably better. Smooth with no twitch of the needle > ever. It also came with a calibration sheet showing real and indicated rpm. The > wultrad tach had no such sheet. Ya well the hour meter on my Mitchell 2 1/4" tach went to about half speed about 40 hours in. I sent it back and it took them about 4 weeks to fix it and ship it back. It worked for 0.2 hrs and then the hourmeter went south -- my plane permanently has 60.2 hours on it. To be fair, I violated the warranty by taking the faceplate off to paint a yellow arc on there, plus the thing was out of warranty time-wise anyway, and they were aware of that but did the "repair" at no cost. However I'm still without an hour meter, and I'm reluctant to take my plane down to send it in again...! If I had a hobbs meter it wouldn't be that big a deal but I don't. I have a buddy has the same tach in his 182 and the hourmeter crapped out after 25 hours which doesn't give me a lot of confidence either. I guess I'll give them another chance but its looking more and more like that EI tach that I have sitting on my shelf planning to sell will end up in the plane after all. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (60.2 hrs and holding) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: My Wultrad Experience. was Electric Gyros
Date: Apr 15, 2000
> > I have a buddy has the same tach in his 182 and the hourmeter crapped out > after 25 hours which doesn't give me a lot of confidence either. I guess > I'll give them another chance but its looking more and more like that EI > tach that I have sitting on my shelf planning to sell will end up in the > plane after all. On the other hand, I have a 3 1/4" Mitchell tach that I installed in my Citabria 3 years ago. As I has about to install it I dropped in and made a fast grab which resulted in me literally throwing it across the hangar and watched it bounce on the concrete floor. I figured it was ruined. But it looked OK (had a little scratch on the rear of the case. Installed it and it has worked perfect for 160 hours. Who knows? Doug Weiler 'MN Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Compression Riveter
> > >I have recently acquired 2 tools that the metal shop at Atlantic Aviation >was getting rid of: > >1. Chicago Pneumatic compression riveter model #CP450. this thing must weigh >400lbs, it looks like a huge rivet squeezer with a 24" reach. It's pneumatic >and operated by foot pedal. I guess the squeezer sets fit into it. > >My question is does it look like i'll be able to use these tools on my >RV-6A? The compression riveter should be useful for dimpling skins. Most guys use an Avery or Cleaveland C frame tool, but a local RV-6 builder made a huge squeezer yoke to attach to his pneumatic squeezer. I borrowed it to do my wing and fuselage skins. Worked great - faster and better than the C frame. Pictures at: http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/wing/w15.html Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 (riveting fuselage skins) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: RG batteries
Just snipped this from the new online BD-4 newsletter <http://www.northwest-aero.com/bd4newsletter/>: Get rid of that old heavy Lead acid battery. The latest technology is Dry Cell! I heard about this from a Vans RV flyer. They have been using the Odyssey PC 545 with good results for some time. This battery weighs only 11.8 lbs. as compared to 21 lbs. for a 25AH Concorde Certified Aircraft battery. It delivers 230 cold cranking amps, 225 for the Concorde. As these batteries are dry cells they can be mounted in any position (except upside down) and are very good in a high vibration environment. Because they don't vent they don't require a battery box ( there's some more weight you can get rid of ) The PC545 lists for $185 in the Chief Aircraft Catalog. I was debating whether I wanted to spend this much when I discovered that these are cells used in motor cycles and Jet Skies. I found a slightly larger cell ( PC 625) that was on sale for $79.95 at a Jet Ski shop in California (Aqua Sports (310)782-2815 or WWW.aquasports.net) . I ordered it and had it shipped UPS to me and I have been extremely pleased with the performance. With this new cell and the flyweight starter it turns the prop so fast that I can practically Taxi without starting the engine. The PC-625 weighs 13.23 lbs. It delivers 265cold cranking amps and measures 6.7" X 3.9" 6.89" Odyssey also has a 24 month fee replacement warranty. These cells also have a much lower internal leakage than conventional wet cells so they dont tend to loose charge if not toped off, as regular batteries do. I feel that these batteries really offer a nice easy performance upgrade over the old technology. Again if you can find one of those Cessna or Piper owner who are stuck having to use "Certified parts", sell them your old battery and you can move into the new technology for very little out of pocket expense. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: RG batteries
Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > > Just snipped this from the new online BD-4 newsletter > <http://www.northwest-aero.com/bd4newsletter/>: > > Get rid of that old heavy Lead acid battery. The latest technology is > Dry Cell! I heard about this > from a Vans RV flyer. They have been using the Odyssey PC 545 with > good results for some > time. This battery weighs only 11.8 lbs. as compared to 21 lbs. for a > 25AH Concorde Certified > This is the battery I am using in my 6A. So far so good. It is a little pricey at 159 bucks. Bought it locally at Batteries Plus. With the Sky-tek starter and short #2 battery leads it cranks like mad. The size is small, you could put two of them in the battery box if needed. Gary Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
Subject: Re: Compression Riveter
From: Wes Hays <whays(at)juno.com>
Camille, I was fortunate enough to have access to a CP450 compression riveter with a 36 inch yoke to do a lot of dimpling and riviting on my RV. Perfect dimples and rivets every time. I would imagine they would also turn out a great set of rivets on the spars. The one I had access to is for sale. I think it would be great for a builders group. If anyone is interested please contact me off list at whays(at)camalott.com for details. You are going to love that riveter. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bobdz" <bobdz(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Compression Riveter
Date: Apr 15, 2000
posted by: "Camille Hawthorne" > > I have recently acquired 2 tools that the metal shop at Atlantic Aviation > was getting rid of: > > 1. Chicago Pneumatic compression riveter model #CP450. this thing must weigh > 400lbs, it looks like a huge rivet squeezer with a 24" reach. It's pneumatic > and operated by foot pedal. I guess the squeezer sets fit into it. > Sounds like you have the perfect spar riveting tool. I'm jealous! Bob Dz RV6A tail feathers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 15, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF time-to-climb
Talking with Bruce Bohannon at SNF after his dead stick, he said the engine blew a piston and the pieces swiss-cheesed the crankcase. He also said he routinely practices dead-stick landings (engine off) because of the high probability of an event like this. He said that there's nothing like having that prop stopped to make you concentrate. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
Subject: Re: RG batteries
From: "Denis Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
Yo gary I think the later part of the message cited a cheaper, jet ski version which was slightly heavier and more juice...... Do you think batts plus would have it? -- Denis L.(Bum) Walsh ---------- >From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: RG batteries >Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000, 9:54 > > > > Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > >> >> Just snipped this from the new online BD-4 newsletter >> <http://www.northwest-aero.com/bd4newsletter/>: >> >> Get rid of that old heavy Lead acid battery. The latest technology is >> Dry Cell! I heard about this >> from a Vans RV flyer. They have been using the Odyssey PC 545 with >> good results for some >> time. This battery weighs only 11.8 lbs. as compared to 21 lbs. for a >> 25AH Concorde Certified >> > > This is the battery I am using in my 6A. So far so good. It is a little pricey at > 159 bucks. Bought it locally at Batteries Plus. With the Sky-tek starter and short > #2 battery leads it cranks like mad. The size is small, you could put two > of them in > the battery box if needed. > > Gary Zilik > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com>
Subject: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 15, 2000
Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking of the back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: subaru 1600 engine
Subaru 1600 engine expermental Item 304553484 on E-Bay. High bid $150.00 range. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 15, 2000
That's where 90% of the RV's that I have seen put it. It's visible, but not too visible and tacky. Especially if you use some cool letters or stencils. Also don't forget the "passenger warning" placard that has to be in plain view. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 12:54 PM Subject: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking of the > back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clay Smith <clayfly(at)libertybay.com>
Subject: RV Checkride
Date: Apr 15, 200
Recently I had the opportunity to get checked out by Mike Seager in the RV-6. I thought my notes on the checkride would perhaps be of benefit some on the list. [Please note that many of my perspectives of the RV are due to my previous flight experience --- most of which is in a 1946 Luscombe (slow taildragger with huge wings). Your perspective of the RV will differ based upon your previous flight experience.] So, here's what I learned: Mike uses written checklists from start-up to shut-down. While in the air, the checklists are simple enough that they are simply memorized so the cards were not used in the air. The controls are very sensitive! Just a slight pressure forward on the stick brought the tail up on the takeoff roll and a gentle pull brought the airplane off the ground. Plenty of right rudder is used, but the rudders are very sensitive (as compared to the Luscombe). I found myself wagging all the way down the runway and on the climbout on my first takeoff. Tiny, quick rudder inputs seem to work very effectively. It's a pussycat on the ground (as compared to the Luscombe). Take off was no flaps, fuel pump on. Climbout at 110 mph. At altitude we reduced power to achieve 140 mph, fuel pump off. Mike took me out to a practice area and we did 360 degree turns at 120 mph (30 degree bank), then 80 mph 15 degree bank turns with and w/out flaps. It takes some effort to keep from climbing in the turns because I'm so used to pulling back on the stick in turns. The RV is so effecient in the air that it doesn't lose altitude in turns like a Cessna or Luscombe does. So little or no back pressure is required even in a 30 degree turn. Then we did stalls and this was a real eye opener for me. In the Luscombe and Cessnas I always have to really tug and fight to get the airplane to stall. Not so with the RV! We slowed to 80 mph and set power at 1600 rpm to maintain altitude and did power on (1600 rpm) stalls with and without flaps --- we did not add power in recovery. The airplane stalled at about 60 mph and it snapped right down. You have to be carefull not to pull back too abruptly in recovery or it will immediately go into a secondary stall. I came away from the stall work with the clear understanding that, even when close to a stall, the elevator forces are very light. So, at least for the first 100 or so hours, I need to be very carefull when landing that I keep my speed up becuase I can't tell by "feel" if I'm close to a stall in the RV --- I have to keep one eye on the airspeed indicator during final approach. Perhaps with time I'll have a better feel for imminent stalls. Before entering the pattern slowed it down to 125 mph. Then entered the pattern with power set at 1900 rpm. Checked fuel selector, fuel pump on, pull carb heat. When 1/2 down the runway on the downwind, pulled throttle to idle to reduce speed. When below 110 mph added 1/2 flaps (4 seconds on the electric flap switch). When slowed to 85, added power to 1200 rpm and trimmed. Turned to base leg. Kept 85 mph. While turning to final, added full flaps, then trimmed --- kept 85 mph. Slowed to 80 mph over the numbers. When the landing was assured, pulled power off. We did about 6 t/off and landings. Three point landings in the RV-6 seemed very soft --- even when they were less than perfect. In the Luscombe I'm used to getting punished by the stiff landing gear when I have less than stellar landings. The RV seems much more forgiving. Well, there you have it. I hope this was of benefit to some of you. It goes without saying that this is an extremely responsive airplane. Think left and it goes left. And boy will it climb! In retrospect, even with 350+ hours of taildragger time, I would have been extremely dangerous in an RV if I hadn't gotten the Mike Seager checkout. I now feel much more comfortable about test flying my own bird. Now I'll focus my attention on emergency procedures. Happy flying to all, Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, ready to haul it to the airport, stick on the wings and go flying Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Altitude Performance Data Point/Long
Date: Apr 15, 2000
Listers: I had never bothered to climb to an altitude higher than 14,500 until today, but I have noticed that an underpitched fixed pitch prop has a very good capability to maintain cruise performance at higher altitudes. One lister, in a kidding way, said I was claiming turbocharged airplane performance for my normally aspirated one. At lower altitudes, maximum cruise speed on my airplane runs around 175 knots, limited by engine RPM redline. It will do around 182 knots if I allow a moderate overspeed. This means in real life I use a relaxed cruise speed of 165 to 170 knots at 8.5 to 9 gph. Very nice performance, and never near full thottle till around 14,000 or so. Today we had some mountain wave activity around Carlsbad, and I took advantage of it to make a quick climb to 17,500. Rate of climb at that alitude was 1,300 fpm, aided by the mountain wave, of course. I left the wave, and cruised downwind for quite a ways and was delighted with the performance. TAS was running 165 to 170 knots at 2600 RPM at full throttle. Groundspeed was 215 to 220 knots (250 mph). My fuel flow gauge is not working and I stupidly forgot to note the manifold pressure so don't know what the fuel flow was, but it had to be very low at that altitude. This trip inspired me to the point, that I am actually considering buying the high dollar, but very light and elegant Mountain High oxygen system. Performance like this, and trips, like the one a couple of weeks ago where I cruised at low level along the escarpment of the Guadalupe Mountains with clouds topping the ridges, and piled up on the upwind sides, followed by a tour down Big Canyon, through the ancient algal reef, with relic Ponderosa Pines up above, fill me with tremendous gratitude that I am lucky enough to be able to experience the wonder of flight in this amazing airplane. Incidently, all you fast RV jocks in the Southwest. The Pecos Valley Air Races are tenatively scheduled for the weekend after Abilene, in October. This will be a closed circuit 100 mile race from the Artesia, NM airport with green chile stew eating to follow. Tom and Lyn Benedict, of Dexter, NM are ramrodding this deal, and believe me, they know how to organize a good party. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Thoughts after ten hours
I now have a grand total of ten hours on my new RV-4 and I thought I would share the following impressions that I have developed so far. Flying qualities: What can I say,, wonderful!!! It is pure pleasure to fly. Most of my twenty or so landings have been wheel landings. I began using 70 knots as an approach speed but have since reduced that to 60KIAS. This seems to work very well,, with full flaps. I am still "experimenting" but I hesitate to use a speed much slower than that, for now anyway,, for wheel landings. I think I would feel ok using 55KIAS for three pointers. That's something I intend on exploring. Engine cooling: I should have listened to everyone else when I installed my baffles and added the fwd air dams at that time. After the first & second flight, It was very apparent that I had to add something to bring the #1 & #4 CHT's up to normal. I have been experimenting with stainless steel tape to find the best shape and coverage area. I have settled on a final shape and size and will install a permanent aluminum dam while I have the airplane out of service for a complete, 10 hour inspection. Flaps: This is my only "real" complaint that I have with the original design,, the manual flaps. I elected to stay with them at the time of construction because that is what I was used to, and liked best. (I used to own a Cherokee) However, the manual flap in the RV4 is quite different. Obviously, I have not been able to take along any passengers to witness first hand the interference with the left leg,, but I can tell you that it is a real bear to deploy the final forty degrees. The first notch is no problem,, but that second notch is rather awkward,, it's a leverage thing. I end up using both hands which is not a good thing to do while in the pattern. So, if any of you rv-4 types have any tips on easier deployment methods, I am all ears. In the interim, I am already scheduling a conversion to electric as a winter project. (Like I need ANOTHER project!) :) Performance: I am still early in the test phase so I am slowwwly expanding the envelope. Stalls are very benign, I get a nice little buffet about two knots prior and she stalls pretty much straight ahead. Slight left wing drop with flaps deployed. I am using a Performance, 64 x74 three blade, mounted to a 180HP O320-D1A that was built by Lycon. It is still early and the engine is still somewhat tight, but my initial impressions are that this prop is a little too coarse. At full throttle, TAS is around 182KTS with 24",, but he rpm is only about 2600-2650. So I am cheating myself out of a little extra umph. But I will make a final decision when I return the prop for final finish after about thirty hours or so. But overall,,, WOW!!! Trim: I guess I have lucked out as the airplane seems to be in fairly good rig. I have determined that I will require a rudder trim wedge about 3.5" long to keep the ball centered at cruise. At higher speeds I notice slight, left wing heaviness and have attempted to remedy by altering the aileron trailing edges. So far,, not much change. (It's not that bad to begin with). I was thinking of adjusting a flap(or two) to correct for this. Has anyone else tried this? This was/is a favorite technique of the spam-cans,, Well, that's about all for now. Keep in mind that these observations are from a ten-hour RV pilot,, so I reserve the right to change my mind at some point :) Derrick L. Aubuchon RV-4 N184DA Derrick L. Aubuchon n184da(at)pacbell.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 15, 2000
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV Checkride
> The controls are very sensitive! I like to think of them as responsive, not sensitive. They sure fly great don't they. Gary Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV8 Rear seat back question
I've drilled and clecoed the lower part of the rear seat together i.e. the waffle plate and the two side channels & done the fancy tabs at the bottom. On the plans it shows that the distance from the hinge line at the bottom to the top of the metal part is 20 7/8". My assembled part is almost an inch longer than this - do I just slice the whole thing including the side channels down to size with a cutoff wheel? Or just the "waffle plate'? I guess you fit the fiberglass top part after that. Sorry about this, but I always have trouble with the "simple" things & the manual isn't much help here! Phil, 80691 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Paint to Match Powdercoat
Rick: As mark mentioned, the powdercoat is Gray 230, made by Cardinal. The paint Paul Besing (see his web site) used is not a bad match for Van's powder coat (as far as I can tell from the color books). It's Sunfire made by Sherwin Williams and the exact number is on his site under "Paint". However I discovered that Cardinal themselves make a paint that is similar to Sunfire (cross linking high-solids polyurethane) with similarly impressive specs as far as toughness & durability. They will also match a gallon of their paint exactly to your powdercoat color. I decided to use a slightly darker gray than Van's and five pounds of powdercoat, a gallon of paint, reducer and hardener cost me $140 and they delivered in two days. They were far more helpful and responsive than Sherwin Williams. I tried three SW stores four times each in vain to even get their color sample cards. Finally the national office forced the Oakland branch to sell me one for $10! You can check Cardinal locations at: http://www.cardinalpaint.com/locations.htm Phil 80691 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Yesterday at SNF, I point blanked asked Van to put to rest the rumors on the RV list of a 4 place RV. He came across as honest and straightforward with his answers. He said it will happen but not overnight, it will be 540 powered, will NOT be stressed for aerobatics (a la RV9), will not look like a 4 seat version of anything he has now, and won't happen until he has a couple other projects out of the way. I told him I was dissapointed to hear him say he won't design it for 2 seat aerobatics but he cited some plane in the past that tried and didn't do well plus he said he didn't trust his customers to resist the temptation to do aero with 4 passengers and luggage. I also asked if the plane would be designed on the lower end for the 360 and he said definately not. He said there's nothing magical about a homebuilt plane and you have to have the power but the plane would still retain a good control feel. I said I wished he'd reconsider the aerobatic part and he said that the survey should be on their web site somewhere and if you really want a aerobatic capable 4 seater fill it out. Another interesting tid bit was that he apologized for the long back order time for the RV6 QB kits and said he was only RECENTLY made aware of the situation! Said he'd have to look into that more when he got back. Said he had more than one overseas source for building and would have to inquire about things. Yikes, that struck me as kind of, to use a cliche, "out of touch". Van's has been advertising 4 to 6 months backorder for the 6QBs for quite a while now. For RV "counters" I only saw 3 RVs yesterday on the line and 3 Harmon Rockets. That looked odd. There was a blue RV 6 buzzing around the pattern that was powered by something other than a lycoming, by the sound of it, but it didn't taxi with the rest of the RVs when it landed. I think I've seen pictures of it in the past but I can't seem to recall any details. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
Date: Apr 16, 2000
> For RV "counters" I only saw 3 RVs yesterday on the line and 3 Harmon > Rockets. That looked odd. There was a blue RV 6 buzzing around the pattern > that was powered by something other than a lycoming, by the sound of it, but > it didn't taxi with the rest of the RVs when it landed. I think I've seen > pictures of it in the past but I can't seem to recall any details. > The Blue RV-6 was probably Dave Atkins' aircraft powered with a Mazda Wankel engine (Rotary out of RX-7 auto) which gives it that different sound. To the best of my knowledge there are three RV-6(A)s and one RV-4 flying with Rotary engines. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert L. Smith II" <rls2(at)shreve.net>
Subject: Fw: FOR SALE: RV-6A Empennage and Wing Kits
Date: Apr 16, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Smith II <rls2(at)shreve.net> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 7:01 PM Subject: FOR SALE: RV-6A Empennage and Wing Kits > I'm moving soon so I've priced these kits to move fast. I'm offering both kits for one low price of $5000. This price also includes the tools ! The empennage kit is complete and the wing kit is 40% complete. All parts are primed and the workmanship is excellent. A must see ! If interested give me a e-mail or call me at (318) 949-4636.> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
What components of a mostly aluminum airplane kit need to be sourced from outside the USA? From what I have seen of a few RVs in various stages of completion they are basically sheet aluminum stampings and possibly some extrusion. Just asking for future reference. Thanks Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts after ten hours
Date: Apr 16, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Derrick L. Aubuchon <n184da(at)pacbell.net> Date: Saturday, April 15, 2000 11:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Thoughts after ten hours > >I now have a grand total of ten hours on my new RV-4 and I thought I >would share the following impressions that I have developed so far. ,, >Flaps: >This is my only "real" complaint that I have with the original >design,, the manual flaps. I elected to stay with them at the time of >construction because that is what I was used to, and liked best. (I >used to own a Cherokee) However, the manual flap in the RV4 is quite >different. Obviously, I have not been able to take along any >passengers to witness first hand the interference with the left leg,, >but I can tell you that it is a real bear to deploy the final forty >degrees. The first notch is no problem,, but that second notch is >rather awkward,, it's a leverage thing. I end up using both hands >which is not a good thing to do while in the pattern. So, if any of >you rv-4 types have any tips on easier deployment methods, I am all >ears. In the interim, I am already scheduling a conversion to >electric as a winter project. (Like I need ANOTHER project!) :) > Derrick, I have had the manual flaps for 8 years and have no desire to change to the electric ones. The interference with the passengers left leg happens only once per flight, only if you have a passenger (less often than most people anticipate), and is greatly minimized if you install foorwells for them (these make great storage nooks when you don't have a passenger). As far as using the 2nd notch (forty degrees), I find that it is rarely needed. It provides very little extra lift, but can be useful to increase drag. So I deploy it only when I find that I am a little too hot on the very end of the approach. At this low speed, it takes very little effort to deploy the last notch, and can be done very quickly. Just my opinions.... Ivan rv-4 675 hrs. South TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 Rear seat back question
Date: Apr 16, 2000
> I've drilled and clecoed the lower part of the rear seat together i.e. the > waffle plate and the two side channels & done the fancy tabs at the bottom. > On the plans it shows that the distance from the hinge line at the bottom to > the top of the metal part is 20 7/8". My assembled part is almost an inch > longer than this - do I just slice the whole thing including the side > channels down to size with a cutoff wheel? Or just the "waffle plate'? I > guess you fit the fiberglass top part after that. > > Sorry about this, but I always have trouble with the "simple" things & the > manual isn't much help here! > > Phil, 80691 Phil, Yes, just trim the entire top to the dimension. As I recall I trimmed the pieces separately before riveting. Also, be aware that there has been a mod on the lower outside part of those side channels. You can see the mod I made on my web site at http://home.pacifier.com/~randyl/pgFuselage.htm about 2/3 of the way down the page. The new side channels come preformed in this area. A buddy here just bought new ones, I modified mine. with a piece of angle. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, fwf systems and a million other things www.pacifier.com/~randyl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
In a message dated 4/16/2000 9:56:34 AM Central Daylight Time, aquila33(at)webtv.net writes: << What components of a mostly aluminum airplane kit need to be sourced from outside the USA? From what I have seen of a few RVs in various stages of completion they are basically sheet aluminum stampings and possibly some extrusion. Just asking for future reference. Thanks Dan >> The wings and fuselage can be made out side of the US at a cheaper cost. Look at the F1 rocket by team rocket. Great kit and its made in the chech republic. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
the labor dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: oil filler extension
Where can I buy a Lycoming oil filler tube extension for my RV-6. Haven't seen one in any of my catalogs and looks like it would be a good thing. Also any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of marker, etc. Dave Beizer RV-6A, In Hanger, Final Assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Site update
Date: Apr 16, 2000
I've just completed a fairly major update to my web site. For those interested it can be seen at www.pacifier.com/~randyl. There are new sections complete with pics on Fuselage, Wiring, Interior, and Wiring in addition to everything that was there before. All previous content has been re-organized, hopefully you'll find it logically laid out and intuitive to navigate. Most of all I hope you find it helpful, especially the newer folks in the earlier stages of construction. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, finishing winscreen glassing, starting baffling/plenum www.pacifer.com/~randyl www.RV8ing.com coming soon! Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Anthony Wiebe" <awiebe(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: Stand-alone Jig
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Hello Listers, I've just purchased a brand new RV-8A Empenage kit and I'm in the process of setting up my shop to begin construction. My shop is only 13'x23' and because of existing storage it will be difficult to run a empanage/wing jig right to the ceiling. I have seen mention of stand-alone jigs on the list however I am unable to find anything in the archives. Question: How functional is a stand-alone jig and does anyone have any design hints they can share with me? Your assistance is appreciated!! Best Regards, Anthony Wiebe Calgary, Alberta Getting ready to build. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: Altitude Performance Data Point/Long
In a message dated 4/15/00 8:10:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, n5lp(at)carlsbad.net writes: << I have noticed that an underpitched fixed pitch prop has a very good capability to maintain cruise performance at higher altitudes >> Larry: Good information. Could you provide more details about your prop and also what engine you have? I am wrestling with the decision between fixed pitch and constant speed for my -6. I plan on the 0-360 but have do not have the engine yet and will appreciate your views on the subject either on or off the list. Harry Crosby -6 working, starting on canopy (slider). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Stand-alone Jig
>Question: How functional is a stand-alone jig and does anyone have any >design hints they can share with me? Started off with a stand-alone jig as I was in a rented apartment, and couln't modify anything. Used 4x4's for the upright, put a 2x4 about 4ft long for a foot, and triangular 2x4 braces. Worked fine for the empennage, there wasn't much room to build the wing, (and the fuselage would have never fit) so bought a house with garage after getting the wing kit. The 4x4's werent long enough to attach to the garage ceiling, so I instead attached it to the wall. Left the foot and bracing on the bottom, attached tops to the wall. Proved plenty stable for building the wings, removed the 2nd from the jig today. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com) President and Founder Friends of P-Chan RV-8 80091 Deburring bottom wing skins. 1/5 Starduster II N23UT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips)
Subject: Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico listers...
NOT RV RELATED (VERY indirectly) DELETE NOW if uninterested!! For you folks living in the above states- I hope to retire one day- :-) Non-furnace areas of AZ, CO, and NM are front runners- (considering OR too- closer to Van's!). Could some of y'all tell me about your cherished home bases (advantages/dislikes etc.), aviation friendly, reasonable taxes, quality of life, don't like rednecks from Tennessee!! etc. A real-live airpark would be way-cool. Gotta be somewhere that can support spouse's shopping habits - a REAL mall within driving range(one priority!) I know there's lots of RVers out yonder (Gary Z. Larry P. et. al.) who could offer guidence. PLEASE reply OFF LIST!!!! Thanks and sorry for the abused bandwidth- From the PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
Lucky, regarding your comment about only a few RVs at SNF on I gather the last day, Saturday, on Tues/Wed there were many more. I counted 8 RV-8s alone on Tues, no count on the others. By the end of the week, the place is almost a ghost town as far as fly-in aircraft are concerned. To see the airplanes, go as early in the week as possible, Sun thru Wed, to talk to vendors in the exhibits, go at the end of the week. Seminars, airshows, ect., run all week and you need the schedule for that. FWIW, Andy Johnson, Wings almost, fuse kit shipping soon, I hope. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: oil filler extension
Date: Apr 16, 2000
> >Where can I buy a Lycoming oil filler tube extension for my RV-6. Haven't >seen one in any of my catalogs and looks like it would be a good thing. Also >any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of >marker, etc. > I am interested in this also, but in the meantime I find a rolled up sheet of heavy paper or posterboard makes a nice, clean, disposable funnel. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dfmorrow(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: RV-8 wing separation accident
The NTSB has published the final report on the RV8 wing separation accident from May 24, 1998. The link is http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/LAX/98A171.htm. In a nutshell they give the probable cause as "pilot error". Dan Morrow RV8A -- Vertical Stabilizer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Altitude Performance Data Point/Long
Date: Apr 16, 2000
> >In a message dated 4/15/00 8:10:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >n5lp(at)carlsbad.net writes: > ><< I have noticed that an underpitched fixed pitch prop has a very good > capability to maintain cruise performance at higher altitudes >> > >Larry: Good information. Could you provide more details about your prop and >also what engine you have? I am wrestling with the decision between fixed >pitch and constant speed for my -6. I plan on the 0-360 but have do not have >the engine yet and will appreciate your views on the subject either on or off >the list. > Sorry, I have given than information so many times on the list, I figure everyone knows, I guess. Also on my website. But it is an O-360 with a Sensenich 72FM8, 83 inch pitch. As I have stated before, I always have to use partial throttle in level flight below about 14,000 to avoid the engine redline but 2550 RPM gives around 165 knots (8.5 gph), 2700 around 175 knots and 2780 about 182 knots, depending on altitude. What is nice is that I can maintain these speeds through a very large range of altitudes. The airplane is competely stock, and not particularly well rigged (lots of aileron squeezing). It has new style wheel pants. I am quite happy with the fixed pitch Sensenich. It is very heavy (40 pounds) but that means I pretty much can not get out of the approved CG range. It hurts the climb compared to a constant speed, but I notice almost everyone decreases the RPM on their constant speeds to around what mine runs anyway in climb. I was not convinced, until I tried it, but even with the fixed pitch the airplane can take-off in a shorter distance than it can land, so that is not a practical problem, just not as showy. I think the biggest thing I miss about the constant speed is not having to fiddle with things all the time, like pulling back the thottle in updrafts and adjusting and adjusting to get things the way you want in cruise. I do not miss the complexity and maintenance problems, the oil on the windshield, and the purchase price. The Sensenich for O-320's has the RPM limitation, but there is no limitation for the O-360 prop. I feel like my airplane does not give up any speed to the normal constant speed O-360, in fact I think it is faster than most. I would like to check that, but the only way is a race, side by side. I would like to do that and am waiting for an opportunity. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts after ten hours
Date: Apr 16, 2000
>I guess I have lucked out as the airplane seems to be in fairly good >rig. I have determined that I will require a rudder trim wedge about >3.5" long to keep the ball centered at cruise. At higher speeds I >notice slight, left wing heaviness and have attempted to remedy by >altering the aileron trailing edges. So far,, not much change. (It's >not that bad to begin with). I was thinking of adjusting a flap(or >two) to correct for this. Has anyone else tried this? This was/is a >favorite technique of the spam-cans,, Derrick, I have tried adjusting the flaps on my -6 to correct an initial left heavy wing. No effect. Guess the moment arm is too far inboard to be of some good. So I then slightly squeezed the TE of the light wing aileron and then the plane flew perfect. Rick Caldwell RV-6 #24187 N136RC 43.0 hrs Melbourne, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 16, 2000
> >The NTSB has published the final report on the RV8 wing separation accident >from May 24, 1998. The link is >http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/LAX/98A171.htm. >In a nutshell they give the probable cause as "pilot error". > > >Dan Morrow >RV8A -- Vertical Stabilizer This reminds me of a recent ride I gave. An older fellow with mostly flight experience in Cessna and Piper singles had that "Oooooh, I wanna ride" look recently while I was preparing for a flight. We talked at length about the project, how it flies, cost, time to build, etc. I think I caught him off his guard when I asked if he wanted a ride. "Oh no thanks, I have to get home. My wife is expecting me". Then, after he walked away and I was engaged with yet another RV dreamer, he returned. "I'll regret it if I don't take you up on your offer!" Great, so off we go. I brief him on the general handling, to not make any sudden stick inputs and to be aware that we will be heavy with he and I, and a full load of fuel. I strap him in, hook up his headset and off we go. Up over the practice area, I do a few turns with increasing roll rates so I don't overload the guys senses. I then asked him if he wanted to try it out and he said "you bet!". "OK, easy on the stick and the plane is yours." Before I could take the next breath, we're in a sudden pitch departure that quite honestly scared hell outta me. It felt like we hit a violent updraft followed by a sharp unloading. "WHOA!!!" EASY ON THE PITCH!!" I barked over the intercom in a most definitely stern tone. I did not want to berate the guy, who was obviously not at all familiar with a responsive airplane like the RV. I then (in a more calm manner) pointed out that this is a finger tip airplane....just THINK of what you want it to do, and it will do so. From that point on, I had my hand on the stick and followed him through the turns. No problem at all from that point on and the flight continued on normally. The G meter only showed a span of two G (+2 to 0) from that sudden pitch input. However, it felt like the plane had been hit by a missile because it was so abrupt. I can now see how terribly EASY it is for a ham fisted pilot to overload an RV in flight, especially when near gross weight. I now have a much more cautious approach as to who I allow to handle the stick. I will NOT take my hand off the stick until I am certain my passenger knows how much authority that little steel tube really has. I may never remove my hand from it unless the person in back has some previous time in something besides the average spam can. Just thought I'd share a "don't let it happen to you" scenario. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Snip > > The G meter only showed a span of two G (+2 to 0) from that sudden pitch > input. However, it felt like the plane had been hit by a missile because it > was so abrupt. I can now see how terribly EASY it is for a ham fisted pilot > to overload an RV in flight, especially when near gross weight. > Remember, at higher weights you are probably safer, cause if you are lucky you will stall before you break the airplane. Manuvering speed increases with gross weight. At the risk of being redundant, I will say again, and again, as I have many times before..... The stick between your legs is called the "Wing Removal Lever." Handle it accordingly. Tailwinds Doug Rozendaal www.petroblend.com/dougr dougr(at)petroblend.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 16, 2000
***snip > I now have a much more cautious approach as to who I allow to handle the > stick. I will NOT take my hand off the stick until I am certain my > passenger knows how much authority that little steel tube really has. I may > never remove my hand from it unless the person in back has some previous > time in something besides the average spam can. > > Just thought I'd share a "don't let it happen to you" scenario. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > > ***snip Good Point! A good practice is to have the passenger rest a hand on their lap and lightly grip the stick while the pilot goes through a few manuvers and "lectures" the passenger on the responsivenss of the RV. The passenger gets a good feel for the controls before taking over and things usually go much better. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vince Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Subject: Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico listers...
Date: Apr 16, 2000
I'd be interested in the same information. Vince -----Original Message----- From: Mark Phillips [SMTP:ripsteel(at)edge.net] Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico listers... NOT RV RELATED (VERY indirectly) DELETE NOW if uninterested!! For you folks living in the above states- I hope to retire one day- :-) Non-furnace areas of AZ, CO, and NM are front runners- (considering OR too- closer to Van's!). Could some of y'all tell me about your cherished home bases (advantages/dislikes etc.), aviation friendly, reasonable taxes, quality of life, don't like rednecks from Tennessee!! etc. A real-live airpark would be way-cool. Gotta be somewhere that can support spouse's shopping habits - a REAL mall within driving range(one priority!) I know there's lots of RVers out yonder (Gary Z. Larry P. et. al.) who could offer guidence. PLEASE reply OFF LIST!!!! Thanks and sorry for the abused bandwidth- >From the PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 16, 2000
I have not yet begun the fuse stage, but this sort of scenareo has been in my mind for some time. I am hoping when I get to that stage I can come up with a way to remove half of the mechanical advantage from the passenger stick. What does a passenger need full deflection for anyway? Of course, I have yet to even look at that section of the plans so it may not even be possible.....just a thought. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:42 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc. > > > > > >The NTSB has published the final report on the RV8 wing separation accident > >from May 24, 1998. The link is > >http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/LAX/98A171.htm. > >In a nutshell they give the probable cause as "pilot error". > > > > > >Dan Morrow > >RV8A -- Vertical Stabilizer > > This reminds me of a recent ride I gave. An older fellow with mostly flight > experience in Cessna and Piper singles had that "Oooooh, I wanna ride" look > recently while I was preparing for a flight. We talked at length about the > project, how it flies, cost, time to build, etc. I think I caught him off > his guard when I asked if he wanted a ride. "Oh no thanks, I have to get > home. My wife is expecting me". Then, after he walked away and I was engaged > with yet another RV dreamer, he returned. "I'll regret it if I don't take > you up on your offer!" > > Great, so off we go. I brief him on the general handling, to not make any > sudden stick inputs and to be aware that we will be heavy with he and I, and > a full load of fuel. I strap him in, hook up his headset and off we go. Up > over the practice area, I do a few turns with increasing roll rates so I > don't overload the guys senses. I then asked him if he wanted to try it out > and he said "you bet!". > > "OK, easy on the stick and the plane is yours." Before I could take the > next breath, we're in a sudden pitch departure that quite honestly scared > hell outta me. It felt like we hit a violent updraft followed by a sharp > unloading. "WHOA!!!" EASY ON THE PITCH!!" I barked over the intercom in a > most definitely stern tone. I did not want to berate the guy, who was > obviously not at all familiar with a responsive airplane like the RV. I > then (in a more calm manner) pointed out that this is a finger tip > airplane....just THINK of what you want it to do, and it will do so. From > that point on, I had my hand on the stick and followed him through the > turns. No problem at all from that point on and the flight continued on > normally. > > The G meter only showed a span of two G (+2 to 0) from that sudden pitch > input. However, it felt like the plane had been hit by a missile because it > was so abrupt. I can now see how terribly EASY it is for a ham fisted pilot > to overload an RV in flight, especially when near gross weight. > > I now have a much more cautious approach as to who I allow to handle the > stick. I will NOT take my hand off the stick until I am certain my > passenger knows how much authority that little steel tube really has. I may > never remove my hand from it unless the person in back has some previous > time in something besides the average spam can. > > Just thought I'd share a "don't let it happen to you" scenario. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Melvin C. Barlow" <melbarlow(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV4 Manual Flaps (was thoughts after 10 Hrs.)
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Derrick Aubuchon wrote: >Flaps: >This is my only "real" complaint that I have with the original >design,, the manual flaps. I elected to stay with them at the time of ... The only time I find the second notch of manual flaps difficult to apply is when I'm above 70kts IAS. Then the force applied to the handle causes it to twist and not engage the notch on the seatback. Speaking of those seatback notches, make sure the edge of the notch and mating edge of the flap handle bar are filed quite sharp so they will engage readily. One other thing I did was to add a bungee cord that is hooked to the crossbar of the roll bar and loops through a clevis attached to the flap handle just behind the seatback. Seems to help some... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Doug Rozendaal wrote: > (snip) > Remember, at higher weights you are probably safer, cause if you are lucky > you will stall before you break the airplane. Manuvering speed increases > with gross weight. Doug, you might want to restate that, because a lot of the list doesn't have your experience/background and may take that statement literally. It is basically true for aircraft like my Cessna 337, which typically cruises at indicated speeds at or below the maneuvering speed (depending on weight & altitude). Extra weight, especially in fuel which is spread out along the wing spar reduces the likelihood of maneuvering loads or turbulence overloading the structure because the wing will stall first. However, assuming the speed is greater than maneuvering speed, extra weight in the fuselage increases the structural loads in direct proportion to the weight. I think most RVs spend almost all their airborne time well above maneuvering speed. The concept of "corner speed" is probably foreign to many RVators. I would think that inadvertant structural overloads are easier the heavier a given RV is. The exception, of course, is someone with your warbird background, who is trained to fly with one eye on the ASI, one on the G-meter, and the third one looking for bandits ;-) Note that the recommended entry speeds for aerobatic maneuvers are basically all above maneuvering speed in RVs. except for stalled maneuvers (e.g. snap rolls) and split-S. I think it's also useful to point out that anything which lowers stalling speed also lowers maneuvering speed. This includes lower weight, but it also includes flaps, vortex generators, and aftermarket wing tips or winglets which lower stall speed and/or increase effective span. > > > (snip) > > The stick between your legs is called the "Wing Removal Lever." Handle it > accordingly. Absolutely. I'm thinking of placarding a "inflight wing removal procedure" on the back of the front seat James Freeman not flaming--just clarifying. If I'm wrong on technical points Kevin Horton will have to come kick both our butts ;-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
Date: Apr 16, 2000
If your question is regarding Van's comment, I **think** what is being "sourced" is only lower cost LABOR. The locations include Malaysia as I seem to recall. James RV6A-QB ----- Original Message ----- From: "dann mann" <aquila33(at)webtv.net> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 10:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV > > What components of a mostly aluminum airplane kit need to be sourced > from outside the USA? From what I have seen of a few RVs in various > stages of completion they are basically sheet aluminum stampings and > possibly some extrusion. > Just asking for future reference. > Thanks > Dan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 16, 2000
I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the same problem. Bruce Meacham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WoodardRod(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
I guess I'll show my ignorance... I flew my 160hp RV-3 for 125 hours in 6 months and never found anything wrong with the yaw axis... Seemed solid as a rock to me. The only time I ever felt a real need to use the rudder was to speed up the roll rate in an aileron roll... 'Course you'd probably want to know that I was flying a Aeronca Champ before the RV. The Champ would do a nice side slip (and not a turn) if you used the ailerons without also using rudder. RV-3's forever as Mr. Reece would say! Rod Woodard In a message dated 4/16/00 8:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time, bruceme(at)seanet.com writes: > I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done > anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the > common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the > same problem. > > Bruce Meacham ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Stand-alone Jig
Anthony: A free standing jig can be just fine. I could not drill or glue my floors or ceiling, so my jig had 5 foot "feet" (made of 4x4) perpendicular to the cross beam, with angle pieces made of 2x4 running up to the uprights to support them. I built a plywood box beam for the cross bar because of the big temp. and humidity changes in the hangar. A cross piece along the top & the thing is rock solid. I had no trouble building my empennage on it. Phil, 80691 > Question: How functional is a stand-alone jig and does anyone have any > design hints they can share with me? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Apr 16, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF "report" on 4 seat RV
Yes that makes sense now. The QB kits must be very expensive to build. How much does a Malaysian tradesman make per hour these days? I know they have a pretty high standard of living there. Could they be making $5 per hour or more? I wonder if he would like to set up a maquilladora plant here in Tijuana/ San Diego. Might save some shipping Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-3 Yaw dampening (sic)
In a message dated 4/16/00 6:58:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bruceme(at)seanet.com writes: << I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening (sic)... Has anyone done anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the same problem. >> Just leave your yaw out in the rain and it will then be sufficiently dampened. ; ) I think all of the RV series aircraft exhibit a little yaw swing in choppy air due to low control system static friction and being short coupled. I too would like to know if a dorsal helps significantly. Just a little foot force resting on the rudder pedals pretty much damps out the swing. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "IEN YOE" <PAUL.AND.IEN(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re:Flying....
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Hi Rod, Are you flying yet?? Still am looking for meaningful flying employment. May have to resort to single engine cargo to get started. Hope you finally got into the cockpit. Paul Bilodeau ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven Frisby" <whamo(at)gci.net>
Subject: HS spar questions (am I being to picky?)
Date: Apr 16, 2000
The drawings on page 3pp of the RV-8 plans show that HS-814 angle needs to be trimmed to clear HS-801PP skin and HS-404 rib. Should this be done before priming and final assembly of the forward spar or after. I assume it is suppose to be done afterwards while fitting the rib and skin. Other than that Im ready to prime and assemble both spars. While countersinking HS-814 and HS-810 for the center flush rivets I countersunk the holes deep enough for the flush rivet to set into the hole perfectly flush on top. However after dimpling the HS-602's the dimpled side doesn't set into the countersinking perfectly. I believe that it would if I countersunk the 810 and 814 deeper. Im not inclined to do it but was wondering if It was critical for the 2 parts to fit and lock together or will the rivets draw them together. Steven Frisby whamo(at)gci.net Palmer Alaska ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 17, 2000
It's not that it doesn't have positive yaw control. In this respect yaw control is quite good, but not nearly as powerful as the Champ. What I'm concerned with is the stability in yaw. A quick jab of the rudder pedal (the technical term is doublette) causes ten or so oscillations in my machine before stability is regained. It's obviously convergent (get's smaller after each oscilation) but it's very slow to do so. To put this is practical terms... Have you ever flown the -3 in turbulence and felt like you were being slammed agains the side of cabin constantly? I have it's not fun. The phenomina is similar to Dutch Roll, but with the light dihedral of the RV's, there's very little "rolling" just poor yaw oscillation dampening. The best aerodynamic solution is to increase the vertical tail surfaces or move the surface further aft. By the the way, I love flying Champs too, enjoy... Bruce Meacham ----- Original Message ----- From: <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: WoodardRod(at)aol.com > > I guess I'll show my ignorance... I flew my 160hp RV-3 for 125 hours in 6 > months and never found anything wrong with the yaw axis... Seemed solid as a > rock to me. The only time I ever felt a real need to use the rudder was to > speed up the roll rate in an aileron roll... > > 'Course you'd probably want to know that I was flying a Aeronca Champ before > the RV. The Champ would do a nice side slip (and not a turn) if you used the > ailerons without also using rudder. > > RV-3's forever as Mr. Reece would say! > > Rod Woodard > > In a message dated 4/16/00 8:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time, > bruceme(at)seanet.com writes: > > > I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done > > anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the > > common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the > > same problem. > > > > Bruce Meacham > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 16, 2000
From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Bruce, It is news to me that the -3 has poor yaw dampening. My plane was built by Frank Smith (in New Orleans, although I think he may have moved to North Carolina), and he added a forward extension of the dorsal fin, sort of like on a P-51. He never said anything about the alteration and I always assumed it was just for looks. But maybe that is why I haven't noticed any problem with yaw. It should be an easy addition to a -3 if anybody wanted to try it. Chuck N893FS Lubbock, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)seanet.com> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Bruce Meacham" > > I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done > anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the > common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the > same problem. > > Bruce Meacham > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: HS spar questions (am I being to picky?)
> >The drawings on page 3pp of the RV-8 plans show that HS-814 angle needs to >be trimmed to clear HS-801PP skin and HS-404 rib. Should this be done before >priming and final assembly of the forward spar or after. I assume it is >suppose to be done afterwards while fitting the rib and skin. If you trim too much off, you might run into an edge distance problem later when drilling the holes for the bolts that hold the HS-814 to the fuselage. I haven't got to this stage of my fuselage yet, so I'm not sure how much margin there is. I suspect it wouldn't be a problem unless you left a large gap between the HS-814 and the HS-801. >Other than >that Im ready to prime and assemble both spars. While countersinking HS-814 >and HS-810 for the center flush rivets I countersunk the holes deep enough >for the flush rivet to set into the hole perfectly flush on top. However >after dimpling the HS-602's the dimpled side doesn't set into the >countersinking perfectly. I believe that it would if I countersunk the 810 >and 814 deeper. Im not inclined to do it but was wondering if It was >critical for the 2 parts to fit and lock together or will the rivets draw >them together. >Steven Frisby I've found that I need to countersink a bit deeper to get things to nest nicely together. It is useful to make up some little test pieces from some scrap of various thicknesses with dimpled holes in them. You can check you countersink depth with the little test pieces. For reference, I find I usually need to countersink so that a rivet in the hole is about 0.010" below the surface in order to get the pieces to nest together. This probably isn't critical in many areas, but I want to get as much strength as possible from spars and the like, so I did it. Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing LG boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF time-to-climb
In a message dated 4/16/2000 8:29:07 PM Central Daylight Time, sirs(at)neosoft.com writes: << An aside--- Donah Nevill is Bohannon's 'guardian angel', marketing manager, chief cook, etc. etc. etc... and the nicest lady you'll ever meet. Bruce, his two sons, Donah, the Flyin' Tiger, the Mattituck RV4, two dogs, an alligator, lots of hangar flying and a cold Bud is what you'll find at the Flyin' Tiger airport (pvt) in Angleton, Texas. They love people and airplanes and fly-in visitors are part of their everyday routine. You can contact Bruce and Donah at . >> Actually the flying tiger plane is more a F1 rocket then a RV 4. As a large part of it was build and designed by Mark Fredricks, owner of team rocket. The only part that is more RV4 then rocket to my knowledge is the wingspan which is 4 feet longer then the RV4 and alot longer then the the clip winged F1 rocket ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian and Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 17, 2000
> I now have a much more cautious approach as to who I allow to handle the > stick. I will NOT take my hand off the stick until I am certain my > passenger knows how much authority that little steel tube really has. I may > never remove my hand from it unless the person in back has some previous > time in something besides the average spam can. > > Just thought I'd share a "don't let it happen to you" scenario. I also make it a point to be somewhere below maneuvering speed before turning over the stick. Scott Sawby RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lm4(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Bill, I've thought of this many times and came up with nothing. Of course there is the notion of making the right stick short and the left stick long. That will give the pic more leverage. Of course you can't make the right stick much shorter. But reading your post gave me an idea. How about making the right stick out of electrical metallic conduit ? Larry Mac Donald Rochester, N.Y. empenage writes: >I have not yet begun the fuse stage, but this sort of scenareo has been in my mind for some time. I am hoping when I get to that stage I can come up with a way to remove half of the mechanical advantage from the passenger >stick. What does a passenger need full deflection for anyway? Of course, I >have yet to even look at that section of the plans so it may not even be possible.....just a thought. > >Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Bruce: I guess I jumped to conclusions as to what you were talking about. I'll have to try the yaw dampening test and see what happens. Yes, I've been slammed all over the place in turbulence. Chuck N893FS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Vosberg <Roy.Vosberg(at)veritas.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Not a bad idea! How about making an extra stick for such occasions. One made of something flexible such as something similar to a graphite shaft for a golf club or fishing rod? If the passenger tries to yank and bank, some of that movement will be absorbed by the flexible shaft. Also, the pilot can grab the stick and hold it firm while the passenger can move it all about, but the shaft will just be flexing with limited (or no) control input. Roy (only on rv-list-digest) roy.vosberg(at)veritas.com ____ From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc. I have not yet begun the fuse stage, but this sort of scenario has been in my mind for some time. I am hoping when I get to that stage I can come up with a way to remove half of the mechanical advantage from the passenger stick. What does a passenger need full deflection for anyway? Of course, I have yet to even look at that section of the plans so it may not even be possible.....just a thought. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: oil filler extension
I went with the junk-yard approach. The length I cut it down on the tube was the length I cut off the dip-stick. Used a very blunt chissle to re-stamp my marks on the dip stick. I re-marked the same length/interval as the amount I cut off. n5lp(at)carlsbad.net on 04/16/2000 04:52:42 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: oil filler extension > >Where can I buy a Lycoming oil filler tube extension for my RV-6. Haven't >seen one in any of my catalogs and looks like it would be a good thing. Also >any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of >marker, etc. > I am interested in this also, but in the meantime I find a rolled up sheet of heavy paper or posterboard makes a nice, clean, disposable funnel. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: new aircraft trimming & riging
racaldwell(at)hotmail.com on 04/16/2000 06:00:00 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Thoughts after ten hours >I guess I have lucked out as the airplane seems to be in fairly good >rig. I have determined that I will require a rudder trim wedge about >3.5" long to keep the ball centered at cruise. At higher speeds I >notice slight, left wing heaviness and have attempted to remedy by >altering the aileron trailing edges. So far,, not much change. (It's >not that bad to begin with). I was thinking of adjusting a flap(or >two) to correct for this. Has anyone else tried this? This was/is a >favorite technique of the spam-cans,, Derrick, I have tried adjusting the flaps on my -6 to correct an initial left heavy wing. No effect. Guess the moment arm is too far inboard to be of some good. So I then slightly squeezed the TE of the light wing aileron and then the plane flew perfect. Rick Caldwell RV-6 #24187 N136RC 43.0 hrs Melbourne, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: New Builder
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Hello, After lurking on this list for quite some time I finally took the plunge and purchased a partially completed RV-6 empennage from another lister. Two of the boxes arrived today. One box contained the completed rudder. This box had a slight crease in it. Upon opening I discovered that the rudder has a corresponding crease about 7" from the bottom of the rudder on the trailing edge. The crease extends forward from the trailing edge aboout 2.5". The trailing edge is bent very slightly at the crease. Is there a way to fix this, or do I need to redo the rudder? Thanks, Jack K. Holley jkholley(at)earthlink.net RV-6 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Steve Judd <sjudd(at)ffd2.com>
Subject: Re: Stand-alone Jig
Hi Anthony, > I've just purchased a brand new RV-8A Empenage kit and I'm in the process of > setting up my shop to begin construction. My shop is only 13'x23' and > because of existing storage it will be difficult to run a empanage/wing jig > right to the ceiling. > > I have seen mention of stand-alone jigs on the list however I am unable to > find anything in the archives. I'm in exactly the same situation. I've spent the last six (eight? good heavens) weeks building my garage/shop, which now measures approximately 11x22 and has severe ceiling logistics, and have been thinking about this for a while. The purpose of the jig is to keep things aligned. Once you've built the jig and drawn in the perpendiculars, the main thing is to keep the jig members straight, i.e. to keep the boards from warping, so that parts mounted on the frame for long periods of time will stay aligned. Boards usually warp in the "thin" direction, so using T-shaped frame members ought to keep things pretty straight. So my current thinking is to take a 10' 2x4 (or maybe a 2x6), sandwich it between 2x4's at both ends, and screw a 1x4 or 2x4 board onto its top (to make the T-shape, and also a convenient platform for attaching stuff to). For feet, for the end 2x4's, I envision a triangular plywood-2x4 sandwich. Finally, if needed, some additional 2x4's might be added to the long beam for additional floor support. I think the result will be a jig that is structurally very strong, stable, and portable. Also, I can fit two of them in my shop, to build both wings simultaneously. I plan on building it this weekend; we'll see if theory matches reality. Here are some other things I did, to conserve space in my shop: For workbenches, I built two 2' by 4' workbenches, using some 2'x4' particle board I got at Home Depot and some scrap 2x4's (building this garage involved tearing down a wall). They of course also have a shelf, for storage and structural stability. With this setup, I can make one long 2' by 8' bench against the wall, or put them together to make a large 4' by 4' bench, or otherwise rearrange them as needed. Also, I put a piece of 2' by 4' hardboard on top of each bench -- it's easier to clean up, tougher, and makes it possible to have one bench surface for woodworking, another for greasy auto-mechanics stuff, etc. Also, I don't think the hardboard will scratch aluminum. I also built a portable four-way work island, as described by Tony Bingelis -- a 30" x 30" workbench on rolling (lockable) casters, with different tools (bandsaw, grinder, sander) on each corner, and a center post with a power strip on it (connected to a long extension cord, hanging from the ceiling). It's a nice rig. And shelving is of course one of mankind's greatest inventions. Anyways, I think building in a shop your size is very doable. I am just trying to keep everything compact and flexible, so that I can rearrange things as needed and not take up too much space. I suppose I'll get pictures put on the web site eventually; the last six (eight? Good heavens) have been a little busy though... -Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net>
Subject: Missing Man
I just returned from a week at Sun 'N Fun. I delivered several forums about Formation Flying, Inc (FFI) and flew formation flybys each day between 1130-1150. The recent tragedy involving Bill and Jeremy Benedict was heavy upon us all, so with Van's concurrence, I included a missing man pass each day as the next to last pass before the pitchout to land. Ken Scott (from Van's Aircraft) did the narration. They were both great guys who helped shape the dimention of our RVating world. Hopefully the missing man flybys gave a small tribute to their contributions. Stu McCurdy RV-3, 74TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: New Builder
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Sounds like a filler solution. If you can't successfully fill it with bondo, then I would recommend building a new rudder. The rudder parts are not that expensive, and it is not that difficult to build. Plus it will provide you with invaluble experience for the rest of the kit. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:03 AM Subject: RV-List: New Builder > > Hello, > > After lurking on this list for quite some time I finally took the plunge and > purchased a partially completed RV-6 empennage from another lister. > > Two of the boxes arrived today. One box contained the completed rudder. This > box had a slight crease in it. Upon opening I discovered that the rudder has > a corresponding crease about 7" from the bottom of the rudder on the > trailing edge. The crease extends forward from the trailing edge aboout > 2.5". The trailing edge is bent very slightly at the crease. > > Is there a way to fix this, or do I need to redo the rudder? > > Thanks, > > Jack K. Holley > jkholley(at)earthlink.net > RV-6 empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Vincent Himsl <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Re: New Builder
At 4/17/00 10:03 AM, you wrote: > >Hello, > >....Two of the boxes arrived today. One box contained the completed >rudder. This >box had a slight crease in it. Upon opening I discovered that the rudder has >a corresponding crease about 7" from the bottom of the rudder on the >trailing edge. The crease extends forward from the trailing edge aboout >2.5". The trailing edge is bent very slightly at the crease. > >Is there a way to fix this, or do I need to redo the rudder? Hello, If you check the archives you will discover several methods for dealing with "cosmetic" imperfections in the building process. As for the crease specific, sounds cosmetic except for the trailing edge part. If the entire trailing edge, that is both sides, are bent then I suggest you contact Van's. Suggest you set the rudder aside and begin work on the other stuff and wait till you've developed more experience. I can assure you that by the time you've completed the wings which includes two ailerons and flaps, you will be in a much better position to judge how serious the "crease" is and how best to deal with it. Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 Fuselage Moscow, ID 83843 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: New Builder
Use Poly Fibers- Fiber Fill as a filler agent. Its so lightweight there will never be a problem with mass ballance. rv8er(at)home.com on 04/17/2000 11:40:28 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: New Builder Sounds like a filler solution. If you can't successfully fill it with bondo, then I would recommend building a new rudder. The rudder parts are not that expensive, and it is not that difficult to build. Plus it will provide you with invaluble experience for the rest of the kit. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:03 AM Subject: RV-List: New Builder > > Hello, > > After lurking on this list for quite some time I finally took the plunge and > purchased a partially completed RV-6 empennage from another lister. > > Two of the boxes arrived today. One box contained the completed rudder. This > box had a slight crease in it. Upon opening I discovered that the rudder has > a corresponding crease about 7" from the bottom of the rudder on the > trailing edge. The crease extends forward from the trailing edge aboout > 2.5". The trailing edge is bent very slightly at the crease. > > Is there a way to fix this, or do I need to redo the rudder? > > Thanks, > > Jack K. Holley > jkholley(at)earthlink.net > RV-6 empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stand-alone Jig
Date: Apr 17, 2000
I have a stand alone steel jig for sale if anyone is interested! It worked well as an emp jig and double wing jig. Pat Perry Dallas, PA RV-4 installing engine pperryrv(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Pete and Delee, Order 8130.2D, which is the certification rule, paragraph 128c states that the aircraft ID plate must meet the requirements of FAR 45.11 and that the info on the plate meets FAR 45.13. When we look at 45.11(a) it clearly states that the ID plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage exterior so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either adjacent to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface near the tail surface. 45.13(a) gives you the list of what has to be on the plate. Now I know that this raises a question about those with their data plate inside like you are suggesting. When we look at 45.11(d) we see where that came from. But that went out, as you can see in the paragraph, in March of 88. That is the legal interpretation. Now go ask your local DAR or FSDO and ask them what they want. Mike Robertson RV-8A QB >From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Experimental Placard >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:54:43 -0700 > > >Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking of >the >back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: RV Check ride
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Regarding test flight prep, how about dual in a Pitts? If someone has experience in an RV and Pitts, please let me know your thoughts. I know, I know - I need to go to Oregon and fly with Mike. ...tried it once and got weathered out. I need something on this side of the continent that's comparable. Thanks. Bryan Jones -8 test flight in a few weeks -----Original Message----- From: Clay Smith [mailto:clayfly(at)libertybay.com] Sent: None Subject: RV-List: RV Checkride Recently I had the opportunity to get checked out by Mike Seager in the RV-6. I thought my notes on the checkride would perhaps be of benefit some on the list. [Please note that many of my perspectives of the RV are due to my previous flight experience --- most of which is in a 1946 Luscombe (slow taildragger with huge wings). Your perspective of the RV will differ based upon your previous flight experience.] So, here's what I learned: Mike uses written checklists from start-up to shut-down. While in the air, the checklists are simple enough that they are simply memorized so the cards were not used in the air. The controls are very sensitive! Just a slight pressure forward on the stick brought the tail up on the takeoff roll and a gentle pull brought the airplane off the ground. Plenty of right rudder is used, but the rudders are very sensitive (as compared to the Luscombe). I found myself wagging all the way down the runway and on the climbout on my first takeoff. Tiny, quick rudder inputs seem to work very effectively. It's a pussycat on the ground (as compared to the Luscombe). Take off was no flaps, fuel pump on. Climbout at 110 mph. At altitude we reduced power to achieve 140 mph, fuel pump off. Mike took me out to a practice area and we did 360 degree turns at 120 mph (30 degree bank), then 80 mph 15 degree bank turns with and w/out flaps. It takes some effort to keep from climbing in the turns because I'm so used to pulling back on the stick in turns. The RV is so effecient in the air that it doesn't lose altitude in turns like a Cessna or Luscombe does. So little or no back pressure is required even in a 30 degree turn. Then we did stalls and this was a real eye opener for me. In the Luscombe and Cessnas I always have to really tug and fight to get the airplane to stall. Not so with the RV! We slowed to 80 mph and set power at 1600 rpm to maintain altitude and did power on (1600 rpm) stalls with and without flaps --- we did not add power in recovery. The airplane stalled at about 60 mph and it snapped right down. You have to be carefull not to pull back too abruptly in recovery or it will immediately go into a secondary stall. I came away from the stall work with the clear understanding that, even when close to a stall, the elevator forces are very light. So, at least for the first 100 or so hours, I need to be very carefull when landing that I keep my speed up becuase I can't tell by "feel" if I'm close to a stall in the RV --- I have to keep one eye on the airspeed indicator during final approach. Perhaps with time I'll have a better feel for imminent stalls. Before entering the pattern slowed it down to 125 mph. Then entered the pattern with power set at 1900 rpm. Checked fuel selector, fuel pump on, pull carb heat. When 1/2 down the runway on the downwind, pulled throttle to idle to reduce speed. When below 110 mph added 1/2 flaps (4 seconds on the electric flap switch). When slowed to 85, added power to 1200 rpm and trimmed. Turned to base leg. Kept 85 mph. While turning to final, added full flaps, then trimmed --- kept 85 mph. Slowed to 80 mph over the numbers. When the landing was assured, pulled power off. We did about 6 t/off and landings. Three point landings in the RV-6 seemed very soft --- even when they were less than perfect. In the Luscombe I'm used to getting punished by the stiff landing gear when I have less than stellar landings. The RV seems much more forgiving. Well, there you have it. I hope this was of benefit to some of you. It goes without saying that this is an extremely responsive airplane. Think left and it goes left. And boy will it climb! In retrospect, even with 350+ hours of taildragger time, I would have been extremely dangerous in an RV if I hadn't gotten the Mike Seager checkout. I now feel much more comfortable about test flying my own bird. Now I'll focus my attention on emergency procedures. Happy flying to all, Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X, ready to haul it to the airport, stick on the wings and go flying Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Based on the 58RV accident and Brian's experience, I think I'll throw away my rear stick and make the passenger stick their finger in the hole to fly! -----Original Message----- From: Roy Vosberg [mailto:Roy.Vosberg(at)veritas.com] Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:13 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc. Not a bad idea! How about making an extra stick for such occasions. One made of something flexible such as something similar to a graphite shaft for a golf club or fishing rod? If the passenger tries to yank and bank, some of that movement will be absorbed by the flexible shaft. Also, the pilot can grab the stick and hold it firm while the passenger can move it all about, but the shaft will just be flexing with limited (or no) control input. Roy (only on rv-list-digest) roy.vosberg(at)veritas.com ____ From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc. I have not yet begun the fuse stage, but this sort of scenario has been in my mind for some time. I am hoping when I get to that stage I can come up with a way to remove half of the mechanical advantage from the passenger stick. What does a passenger need full deflection for anyway? Of course, I have yet to even look at that section of the plans so it may not even be possible.....just a thought. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com>
Subject: Pacesetter Prop For Sale
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Prop - for O-320 RV-6, 68d/78p, Pacesetter 200, in like new condition. Crushplate, bolts, 4" woofter extension and 13" spinner assy. All for only $950.00. Call Jan at 425 226 4357 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBRV(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: SNF time-to-climb
The Mattituck RV-4 referred to previously is not the Flyin Tiger. It is a black and red RV-4 with a Mattituck-sponsored Red Gold series O-360 engine. It's Bruce's all-around get-around plane and is used extensively for cross-country and aerobatics. I've had the fortune to ride in that one a few times with Bruce. It's always thrilling to fly a plane like that with a pilot of that caliber. The Flyin Tiger started life as a RV-4 project, then was purchased by Bruce and modified by him, Mark Frederick, and Gary Hunter at Mark's place near Austin. The mods go beyond F1 Rocket stuff. It's really a one-of-a-kind plane. Look at those beautiful carbon fiber fairings and cowling! There's no fiberglass on that plane. I sure wish the climb attempt had turned out better. Bruce and his crew work really hard on nearly a full time basis to test and attempt these records. Anyone who knows Bruce knows he definitely isn't a lazy person. I'm glad to know him and wish him well with his efforts. Troy Black Angleton, TX -8 emp. done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Maybe I've got it wrong but the data plate needs to be in full view, but you can also have a serial number data plate mounted on the outside in those two places. That is what I did for my 50 year old Bellanca. The original brass data plate doesn't meet any current specs but the secondary drug induced one does!!!! Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 2:35 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > Pete and Delee, > > Order 8130.2D, which is the certification rule, paragraph 128c states that > the aircraft ID plate must meet the requirements of FAR 45.11 and that the > info on the plate meets FAR 45.13. When we look at 45.11(a) it clearly > states that the ID plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage exterior > so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either adjacent > to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface near > the tail surface. 45.13(a) gives you the list of what has to be on the > plate. Now I know that this raises a question about those with their data > plate inside like you are suggesting. When we look at 45.11(d) we see where > that came from. But that went out, as you can see in the paragraph, in > March of 88. > > That is the legal interpretation. Now go ask your local DAR or FSDO and ask > them what they want. > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A QB > > >From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: Experimental Placard > >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:54:43 -0700 > > > > > >Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking of > >the > >back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: RV Checkride
Clay, Thanks VERY much for your notes. For those of us that will not be able to link up with Mike ( very busy guy ) this may save an airplane or two. This kind of information ( like the Brian Denk posts ) is solid gold for those of us who will probably be flight testing our birds with the minimum of RV experience under our belts. I strongly encourage anyone who is listening out there in RV land to let us benefit from your experience ( good or bad ). I would love to hear what happened ( for instance ) to Bill Pagan's bird. I understand from the NTSB report that there may have been a bit of a cross wind component involved in the landing. It would be nice to know if the RV-8 has problems in crosswind landings... This stuff might save a life some day, who knows??? - Jim RV-8AQ ( panel and wiring ) N89JA (reserved) Clay Smith on 04/15/2000 09:36:06 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RV Checkride >Recently I had the opportunity to get checked out by Mike Seager in the RV-6. I thought >my notes on the checkride would perhaps be of benefit some on the list. [Please note that >many of my perspectives of the RV are due to my previous flight experience --- most of >which is in a 1946 Luscombe (slow taildragger with huge wings). Your perspective of the >RV will differ based upon your previous flight experience.] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
Date: Apr 17, 2000
> >Regarding test flight prep, how about dual in a Pitts? If someone has >experience in an RV and Pitts, please let me know your thoughts. > >I know, I know - I need to go to Oregon and fly with Mike. ...tried it >once >and got weathered out. I need something on this side of the continent >that's comparable. Thanks. > >Bryan Jones >-8 test flight in a few weeks Bryan, Any high performance taildragger time is good time in my opinion. A Pitt's is certainly more "edgy" than the RV, has a different view forward (or none at all) and just feels different. I had some dual in a Citabria that I feel was quite useful and felt similar on the runway during takeoff and landing. You simply cannot do better than actual RV time in the same model. I flew with Jeff Ludwig in his RV8 for five hours before I took mine into the air. VERY good training and was worth every penny. I live in New Mexico, he lives in Florida. The cost for an airline ticket was validated in the confidence I gained after flying with him. The first flight in my -8 was almost a non-event. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Free Standing Frey jig still available...
Steel Frey combo (tail & wing) jig for sale as of 5/1/00. Jig is located in eastern MA. Sport Aero's prices have recently gone up. Mine will go to the first $750 (plus shipping). Get it while it's cheap!! Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Check FAR 45.11(d) and you will see that for aircraft built before March, 1988 that was ok. For all aircraft built after March 1988, the entire data plate has to be on the exterior of the fuselage per 45.11(a). This is one of those cases where I may not like it but thats the way it is... Mike Robertson RV-8A >From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:16:33 -0500 > > >Maybe I've got it wrong but the data plate needs to be in full view, but >you >can also have a serial number data plate mounted on the outside in those >two >places. That is what I did for my 50 year old Bellanca. The original >brass >data plate doesn't meet any current specs but the secondary drug induced >one >does!!!! > >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! >(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> >To: >Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 2:35 AM >Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > > > > > > Pete and Delee, > > > > Order 8130.2D, which is the certification rule, paragraph 128c states >that > > the aircraft ID plate must meet the requirements of FAR 45.11 and that >the > > info on the plate meets FAR 45.13. When we look at 45.11(a) it clearly > > states that the ID plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage >exterior > > so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either >adjacent > > to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface >near > > the tail surface. 45.13(a) gives you the list of what has to be on the > > plate. Now I know that this raises a question about those with their >data > > plate inside like you are suggesting. When we look at 45.11(d) we see >where > > that came from. But that went out, as you can see in the paragraph, in > > March of 88. > > > > That is the legal interpretation. Now go ask your local DAR or FSDO and >ask > > them what they want. > > > > Mike Robertson > > RV-8A QB > > > > >From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:54:43 -0700 > > > > > > > > >Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking >of > > >the > > >back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: PPG numbers?
Can anyone point me toward a website for PPG Concept paints? I'd like to see a chart of their available colors. Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Wing removal lever and passengers
>Based on the 58RV accident and Brian's experience, I think I'll throw away >my rear stick and make the passenger stick their finger in the hole to fly! This seemed ike a good idea, so I tried it once. I had "forgotten" the aft stick when taking a good friend and fellow Cub flyer up in Suzie Q. He wanted to fly anyway and used that little stub of a thing in back. We actually got tossed around quiet at bit, even with him using just that. I didn't think I had to brief him on taking the wings off with that. In his defence, it is probably pretty difficult to fly using a 2 inch stick. However, I ALWAYS have my hand on the stick when someone is in the back seat. No one has yet objected because I don't think they know. I initally throw my hands up in the "you've got it" signal, then gently hang on to the stick. I have been disappointed, but never surprised. As I had already mentioned in a long ago post, I went out to see how much stick movement netted what rate of climb. At cruise, one inch of back stick will net you a 2000 fpm climb. Go out and try it yourself. Most pilots are not used to that. Is the airplane sensitive? No; responsive, is the word. There is loads of feedback on the stick to tell you what you are doing, how hard you are pulling, so it is not sensitive. But an initial yank can get your cheeks to saggin'. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: PPG numbers?
Date: Apr 17, 2000
> Can anyone point me toward a website for PPG Concept paints? I'd like to see > a chart of their available colors. Good luck! I couldn't find any such thing. In fact the auto paint supply stores I visited had no color chips to give out either, just a well-worn book of chips with numbers. I had to resort to narrowing the selection down using the book in the store, then buying samples in 1/2 pint quantities (one pint cans filled half way) at $11 each. Then I went home, mixed and shot on some extra skins. Yea, a pain the butt, but you end up getting exactly what you want. Of course the more practice with shooting technique the better. If you do find it online I'd love to know. The best information I've found is from PPG's faxback service which can be reached at (800) 450-2654. Their web site has only general information, pretty useless for what we need to know. BTW, good choice, I think you'll like Concept, great stuff. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, baffling/plenum www.pacifier.com/~randyl Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
In a message dated 4/17/2000 3:27:26 PM Central Daylight Time, bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP writes: << The insurance companies will give you credit for any previous taildragger time...but, to paraphrase a commercial "nothing flies quite like an RV". A Pitts and an RV are worlds apart, ESPECIALLY the landing and slowing down in the pattern or in a descent. I was so loaded up with taildragger doom & gloom myths that my first flight in the RV6 was actually an emotional let down--it was so well behaved on take off and landing--but, I was still grinning. I have heard, but not experienced, the persistent rumor that a Citabria, even tho a high wing, is probably the closest to the good manners of the RV. Boyd RV S6 >> Well according to the insurance companies the more time in a pitts or extra or something like that the cheaper your insurance rates will be. A cub on the other hand wont do to much to help your insurance rates out. Chris Wilcox CGW Insurance/Investments www.cgwi.com f1 rocket builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: PPG numbers?
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Try this... http://www.ppg.com/_private/FrameResult.asp?f=/car_autorefinish/refinish.htm Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kbalch1(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: RV-List: PPG numbers? > > Can anyone point me toward a website for PPG Concept paints? I'd like to see > a chart of their available colors. > > Regards, > Ken Balch > Ashland, MA > RV-8 #81125 > right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 17, 2000
It is no biggie... Did get my brass plate updated to the external stainless steel. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 4:05 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > Check FAR 45.11(d) and you will see that for aircraft built before March, > 1988 that was ok. For all aircraft built after March 1988, the entire data > plate has to be on the exterior of the fuselage per 45.11(a). > This is one of those cases where I may not like it but thats the way it > is... > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A > > >From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard > >Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:16:33 -0500 > > > > > >Maybe I've got it wrong but the data plate needs to be in full view, but > >you > >can also have a serial number data plate mounted on the outside in those > >two > >places. That is what I did for my 50 year old Bellanca. The original > >brass > >data plate doesn't meet any current specs but the secondary drug induced > >one > >does!!!! > > > >Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! > >(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 2:35 AM > >Subject: Re: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete and Delee, > > > > > > Order 8130.2D, which is the certification rule, paragraph 128c states > >that > > > the aircraft ID plate must meet the requirements of FAR 45.11 and that > >the > > > info on the plate meets FAR 45.13. When we look at 45.11(a) it clearly > > > states that the ID plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage > >exterior > > > so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either > >adjacent > > > to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface > >near > > > the tail surface. 45.13(a) gives you the list of what has to be on the > > > plate. Now I know that this raises a question about those with their > >data > > > plate inside like you are suggesting. When we look at 45.11(d) we see > >where > > > that came from. But that went out, as you can see in the paragraph, in > > > March of 88. > > > > > > That is the legal interpretation. Now go ask your local DAR or FSDO and > >ask > > > them what they want. > > > > > > Mike Robertson > > > RV-8A QB > > > > > > >From: "Pete & Delee Bodie" <pjbodie(at)home.com> > > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > >To: > > > >Subject: RV-List: Experimental Placard > > > >Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:54:43 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >Where is a good location for the Experimental Placard? I was thinking > >of > > > >the > > > >back bulkhead of the baggage compartment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim_Andrews(at)tivoli.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: Paint to Match Powdercoat
>As mark mentioned, the powdercoat is Gray 230, made by Cardinal. The paint >Paul Besing (see his web site) used is not a bad match for Van's powder coat >(as far as I can tell from the color books). It's Sunfire made by Sherwin >Williams and the exact number is on his site under "Paint". Here's another data point in the powder coat touch up paint saga... I just spoke to Vick Salinas in the Dallas Cardinal office ( (817) 265-2628 ). He said that he could order me a (six pack) which is the minimum order PN: (T009GR230) for touch up purposes. This is six cans of spray that are ordered right from the factory in California and shipped right to your door. This is the exact match for Cardinal Gray 230. Total cost was per can was about $4.60. My stuff was so scratched up from poor handling during shipping that I'm sure I can use a six pack up easy. - Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: PPG numbers?
My PPG dealer told me to bring in a sample and they would match any color I asked for in Concept. Mike Wills RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil > >Can anyone point me toward a website for PPG Concept paints? I'd like to see >a chart of their available colors. > >Regards, >Ken Balch >Ashland, MA >RV-8 #81125 >right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> >201-229-116) with ESMTP > > >I have heard, but not experienced, the persistent rumor that a Citabria, >even tho a high wing, is probably the closest to the good manners of the RV. > >Boyd I don't have experience with many tailwheel types but I can say, that to me, the ground handling of a Citabria is very similar to the ground handling of an RV. Everything else about the airplanes is completely different, like the ease of doing a roll. The ground handling of my Pacer was MUCH quicker than my RV-6. The Pacer had greater crosswind capabilities also. I suspect the tremendous rudder authority of the Pacer is responsible for both of those differences. I am commonly asked if the RV is quick or tricky on the ground; something about the way it looks I guess. My answer, "no." Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
> > > > The insurance companies will give you credit for any previous > taildragger time...but, to paraphrase a commercial "nothing flies quite > like an RV". A Pitts and an RV are worlds apart, ESPECIALLY the landing > and slowing down in the pattern or in a descent. I(snip) > I have heard, but not experienced, the persistent rumor that a Citabria, > even tho a high wing, is probably the closest to the good manners of the RV. > > Boyd (snip) <> FWIW, I have found the Cessna 140 to be an excellent -landing- trainer for RVs. Although it handles nothing like the RV while airborne, the good visibility over the nose in the flare, landing speeds, and springy steel gear are excellent substitutes. The Cessna is significantly more demanding to land gracefully. IMHO the Decathlon/Citabria/Champs, while great airplanes in their own right, are only useful for teaching directional control (rudder) to a transitioning RV pilot with little or no taildragger time. They are fun to fly, but utterly unlike RVs. Especially when landing, the gear are much better at shock absorption (as opposed to catapulting the aircraft back into the air like the RV or Cessna) Very few airplanes come close the the responsiveness/control feel of the RV series, but I would strongly recommend some back seat RV4 time, Pitts, Extra, etc. if only to learn the importance of a light touch. My first RV PIC time was in the front seat of an RV4 with the owner/CFI in the back (without rudder pedals). I had 1 or 2 flights in an RV4 backseat, and a very thorough C-140 checkout. I did have a little yaw PIO on the takeoff roll until I got my butt calibrated. Flight manuevers were pleasant and easy. The landing was significantly easier than the Cessna, except that the RV doesn't slow down as easily. I have since gotten time with Mike Seager in the red RV6 and found it incredibly valuable. I definitely plan to fly again with mike before flying my RV8, but I've got a while before it's an issue. James Freeman RV8QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: marking oil dipstick
PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Where can I buy a Lycoming oil filler tube extension for my RV-6. Haven't > seen one in any of my catalogs and looks like it would be a good thing. Also > any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of > marker, etc. A couple of light turns with a tubing cutter will make a very neat mark on the oil dipstick. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 135 hrs) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: jjbaker <jjbaker(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Compression Riveter
I had a chance to buy the 450 out of Gov't surplus last year for about 2K . If you are going to do more than one plane or if you are part of a club then its a good deal. It can dimple and rivet, and (as you stated) has a huge yoke. If you get it for free...Take it! If you are doing the QB, then forget it, there isn't any use for it left. JB Camille Hawthorne wrote: > > I have recently acquired 2 tools that the metal shop at Atlantic Aviation > was getting rid of: > > 1. Chicago Pneumatic compression riveter model #CP450. this thing must weigh > 400lbs, it looks like a huge rivet squeezer with a 24" reach. It's pneumatic > and operated by foot pedal. I guess the squeezer sets fit into it. > > 2. Roper Whitney metal punch thingy. i've figured this one out, it punches > all sorts of holes and oblong holes in metal. It is operated by a long > handle, and has about a 12" reach. It came with lots and lots of punches. > Bolts to workbench. > > My question is does it look like i'll be able to use these tools on my > RV-6A? Does anyone know anything about these tools? I used to work at > Atlantic so I know that they have a tendency to throw away perfectly good > tools, so I'm not worried about them being broke. They were probably just > replaced with newer models. I have pictures of these tools if anyone would > like to see them. > > Camille Hawthorne > N5YR Reserved > staring at lots of pieces of aluminum > New Castle, Delaware > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: Tim Houle <thoule(at)kneehill.com>
Subject: Re: marking oil dipstick
no....I love you > > >PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com wrote: >> >> >> Where can I buy a Lycoming oil filler tube extension for my RV-6. Haven't >> seen one in any of my catalogs and looks like it would be a good thing. Also >> any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of >> marker, etc. > > >A couple of light turns with a tubing cutter will make a very neat mark >on the oil dipstick. > >Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 135 hrs) >"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net>
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
Date: Apr 17, 2000
My checkout was Citabria. Nice airplane but RV much tamer on ground. I survived a right tire blowout on landing that semi locked up in wheel pant and kept it straight!. I would like to take credit, but at 25 hours tailwheel at time I am sure Vans had more to do with it. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> Date: Monday, April 17, 2000 4:42 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Check ride > > >> >>201-229-116) with ESMTP >> > >> >>I have heard, but not experienced, the persistent rumor that a Citabria, >>even tho a high wing, is probably the closest to the good manners of the RV. >> >>Boyd > >I don't have experience with many tailwheel types but I can say, that to >me, the ground handling of a Citabria is very similar to the ground >handling of an RV. Everything else about the airplanes is completely >different, like the ease of doing a roll. > >The ground handling of my Pacer was MUCH quicker than my RV-6. The Pacer >had greater crosswind capabilities also. I suspect the tremendous rudder >authority of the Pacer is responsible for both of those differences. > >I am commonly asked if the RV is quick or tricky on the ground; something >about the way it looks I guess. My answer, "no." > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM > >RV-6 N441LP Flying >http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
In a message dated Sun, 16 Apr 2000 9:32:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Bruce Meacham" writes: > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Bruce Meacham" > > I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done > anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the > common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have the > same problem. > > Bruce Meacham > > Is your rudder skin flat from the rear spar to the trailing edge radius? Or is it flat from the rudder spar to the end of the skin stiffeners, and then bend to the trailing edge radius? Jim Ayers Lessdragprod(at)alo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Hi Guys One other note to check in this thread is I seem to remember that my 4 construction manuel said somthing about the trailing edge radius of the rudder having an affect on the yaw stability. I don't have the manuel here but if I remember correctly, it was that if the radius is too large (ie needs to be tighter) the aircraft would be less stable in yaw. The fix was to squeeze the trailing edge al la the alerion fix for a heavy wing. Anyone else remember this. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ Subject: RV-List: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > > Bruce, > > It is news to me that the -3 has poor yaw dampening. My plane was > built by Frank Smith (in New Orleans, although I think he may have moved to > North Carolina), and he added a forward extension of the dorsal fin, sort of > like on a P-51. He never said anything about the alteration and I always > assumed it was just for looks. But maybe that is why I haven't noticed any > problem with yaw. It should be an easy addition to a -3 if anybody wanted > to try it. > > Chuck > N893FS > Lubbock, Tx > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)seanet.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 8:30 PM > Subject: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > > > > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Bruce Meacham" > > > > I think we all know about the -3's poor yaw dampening... Has anyone done > > anything about it? Dorsal fin, etc? I can't find anything in any of the > > common RV literature. I think this is because the -4 and -6 don't have > the > > same problem. > > > > Bruce Meacham > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
> The experimental data placard, as mentioned, is on the > exterior, usually on the tail end and identifies the builder, empty > weight, date of construction, horsepower, etc. Most of that info is not required. All that is required (per FAR 45.13) is Builder's name, model designation, and builder's serial number. Tim ****** Tim Lewis -- Springfield VA RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99 TimRV6A(at)earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jody Villa" <jvilla(at)blast.net>
Subject: Harmon Rocket
Date: Apr 17, 2000
A few weeks ago someone posted that they had a production spot for a Rocket they wanted to sell. If this person is still on the list would you please contact me as I'm interested in it. Thanks and sorry for the non-RV use of bandwidth Jody Villa jvilla(at)blast.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Listers in Amboy. WA?
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Anyone out there near Amboy? If so, please contact me off list. Bill rv-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: New Builder
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Jack, How particular are you regarding the appearance of your airplane? From your description, it doesn't sound that big of a problem. If it is truly cosmetic in nature, it can be easily fixed with a little light weight filler. Bondo will work fine but lighter weight stuff is available from most automotive paint stores. I almost guarantee you that this won't be the first ding you'll have to repair or live with. If it really bugs you, I'd buy replacement parts from Van's and redo it. The rudder is pretty simple to build (compared to what lies ahead for you) and the experience would be worthwhile. If you're unsure in the least bit, rebuild it or at least have a local RV builder take a look at it. Just consider this one of many little detours you're likely to take along the way. Don't let it bug you. Just fix and go on. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Almost ready for FAA approval" ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack K. Holley <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 10:03 AM Subject: RV-List: New Builder > > Hello, > > After lurking on this list for quite some time I finally took the plunge and > purchased a partially completed RV-6 empennage from another lister. > > Two of the boxes arrived today. One box contained the completed rudder. This > box had a slight crease in it. Upon opening I discovered that the rudder has > a corresponding crease about 7" from the bottom of the rudder on the > trailing edge. The crease extends forward from the trailing edge aboout > 2.5". The trailing edge is bent very slightly at the crease. > > Is there a way to fix this, or do I need to redo the rudder? > > Thanks, > > Jack K. Holley > jkholley(at)earthlink.net > RV-6 empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A and have noticed it twice in the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from landing to fast? It gets worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. ???? Jerry Flying N4188J RV-6A Building N909W RV-9A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: PPG numbers?
Go to your nearest dealer with an idea of the color you want. They can match any color. If you go to a car dealer and see a color you like, they have every one that is made. Color is not a problem with any paint brand. Just make sure you keep the formula on hand. At PPG I had a custom color mixed. I shot a color chip (that they supplied) and returned it to the store. In a day they scanned it at their distributor and registered it in their computer. Now I have a number for my paint. Kind of cool. David Aronson RV4 N504RV - engine being hung this weekend Kbalch1(at)aol.com wrote: > > Can anyone point me toward a website for PPG Concept paints? I'd like to see > a chart of their available colors. > > Regards, > Ken Balch > Ashland, MA > RV-8 #81125 > right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: marking oil dipstick
Any good techniques for marking the dipstick, ie etching, some type of >> marker, etc. > >A couple of light turns with a tubing cutter will make a very neat mark >on the oil dipstick. Note: a COUPLE of turns. You can also cut the dumb thing enough to weaken it. Then, take your file and hone off flat places near the line you made and whack the number of quarts on the flat spot with your number punch set. You do have to have an indication of what the marks mean to be legal and accurate. I had to cut my oil dipstick tube to make it fit. I had a short length of tubing (4570 steel) with the same ID as the OD of the tube, cut it so it would angle past the engine mount and had my handy dandy neighbor welder weld the cut. Then I used an epoxy to glue the splice angle to the dipstick tube. Then I HAD to recalibrate the dipstick. I ran the engine to fill the oil cooler and then drained the (still clean) oil and refilled it one quart at a time with the tail down, letting the engine sit for an hour or so so the oil would get in the pan. Then out came the tubing cutter to mark the stick. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
From: "Denis Walsh" <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
I have a 6A and have 901 landings on it so far. I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say on the subject. Mine has shimmied when the touchdown (or lift off) speed is above 65 to 70. It also sems to be more susceptible when there is a crosswind and I presume the ensuing crab angle. Consequently I rotate at 60 MPH and always try to touch down below 70, whilst holding the nose off. You will find this easier to do with two people in the plane. Of course the heavier your nose the tougher it is to hold up. The ground speed at nose touch can be tough to figure. Once I was surprised with a shimmy at a normal touch down around 45, but later realized I had landed down wind with about 15 MPH. Basically, as Van has said, lift it off as soon as you can and hold it off as long as you can on landing (without slamming). Of course make sure the friction is 23 or 24 lbs break out force.. This tends to loosen up in the first few hours but stays after 50 hours or so. Of course this depends on how much steering (or shimmying) you do. Some have reported problems with the friction from over lubeing the fork. I wouldn't put grease in the grease fitting personally; rather slather it on the bushing surfaces in assembly, and annually. Finally always inspect the gear and leg after each shimmy, looking for damage, and checking the break out force. Finally I should add, at only 40 hours there is a possibilty you are mistaking main gear shake for nose gear shimmy. My main gear wobbles (lower freq oscillation than nose) at around 23 to 35 MPH groundspeed and is also affected by the prop RPM. I have seen this both at acceleration and deceleration, but more common at deceleration. I do not have stiffeners. -- Denis L.(Bum) Walsh ---------- >From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com >To: RV-List(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy >Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000, 19:17 > > > Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at > landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A and have noticed it twice in > the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from landing to fast? It gets > worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. ???? > > > Jerry > Flying N4188J RV-6A > Building N909W RV-9A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV Check ride
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Bryan, I'm a partner in a Pitts S2C, still a relative newbie, ~75 hours, but in comparing it to my 2 times in the -6 and the -8A, the handling is similar. It will give you a good grounding in a sensitive airplane and you will have to be on top of your speeds and the winds on landing. Landing a Pitts is harder, I think....can't see as well and you are faster and you need fast feet. You still will need dual for at least insurance reasons according to the insurance agent working with Van's. I think it's a good idea anyway but Pitts time would make your transition shorter IMHO. Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com Wings done, fuselage almost, fuselage interior and wiring, building RMI units. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jones, Bryan D. <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 10:39 AM Subject: RV-List: RV Check ride <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> > > Regarding test flight prep, how about dual in a Pitts? If someone has > experience in an RV and Pitts, please let me know your thoughts. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 17, 2000
The oscilation should stop in six cycles or less. I'd very much like to know your results. Bruce Meacham ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)ttacs.ttu.edu> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 7:07 AM Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: Charles Chandler > > Bruce: I guess I jumped to conclusions as to what you were talking about. > I'll have to try the yaw dampening test and see what happens. Yes, I've > been slammed all over the place in turbulence. > > Chuck > N893FS > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 17, 2000
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Rolling with full flap
Comments please: My Rv6 has a strong roll to left with full flap at approach speed. Flaps up at normal cruise it trims out nice. I would assume the copilot side flap is extending more than the pilot side, although I can't se a difference. The copilot side flap is slightly high when up and at cruise speed so it can't be this flap adjustment causing the problem. Comments welcomed, Peter (Toronto, C-GFLG) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Make certain that the break out force on the nose wheel is correct...as I recall it is 22lbs...I found that it needed to be re-tightened after 30 hours or so...after that it stayed put and shimmy has gone away for good it seems after 200 hours. RV6A Flying Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Hanson" <slhanson(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 17, 2000
When I put the new version of landing gears on (both main and front) I did not use wood and fiberglass supports. I experienced shimmy while braking. Van's suggested that I lower the tire pressure to 23 lbs. That got rid of the shimmy for me. Gary Hanson 246RV RV6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Anthony Wiebe" <awiebe(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: Been There Done That Tape Series
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Does anyone on the list have a "Been There Done That" video tape series they are finished with and would like to sell? Interested in purchasing. Thanks Anthony Wiebe, Calgary, Alberta RV-8A Empenage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 17, 2000
I watched a number of trike RV's taxiing recently and noticed on one plane a little different oscillation mode than the typical back and forth (yaw) motion discussed on this list. What I noticed was a motion around the pitch axis of the nosewheel. I specifically recall wondering if those who have experienced nose wheel shimmy have ever had someone outside the plane watching for specifics. Alex Peterson 6A still quite in the garage > > Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at > landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A and have noticed it twice in > the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from landing to fast? It gets > worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. ???? > > > Jerry > Flying N4188J RV-6A > Building N909W RV-9A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Experimental Placard
Date: Apr 17, 2000
> I think we're talking about different "EXPERIMENTAL" here. The original > question by Mr. Bodie, I think, was about the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign, > decal, whatever that has to be inside the cockpit. I believe the > letters have to be at least 1" high and visible to the passenger. My > decal is 2" high and fits nicely between the pleats of the rear baggage > bulkhead (RV6) True, except it doesn't say anything about whether or not it has to be on the inside or outside. The wording is "near each entrance" (ref FAR 45.23). Yes virtually all RVers put it on the inside somewhere, but I have seen both. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: fuel caps
Date: Apr 17, 2000
Question about the fuel caps. If I fill my tanks up then let it sit, the expansion of the fuel results in fuel fuel coming up through the caps. Is this normal? Are these supposed to be venting caps? I'd think the caps would seal and the fuel would go up through the vent system. My caps are tight, and the O-rings are good. It doesn't seem to ever siphon out during flight, only when it sits. If this is normal, is there any way to keep this from happening besides just not filling it up? I like to keep the tanks full nearly to the top, but don't want the fuel bubbling out all over the wing. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: blake <bharral(at)home.com>
Subject: Hartzell Constant-Speed prop for sale $3300 - Location Phoenix,
AZ Hartzell Prop for sale in Phoenix, AZ - Fresh O/H as of 4-5-00 This prop is being offered for sale by a friend of mine. I believe it was originally on a Mooney. Details copied from the new log are as follows Hub HC-C2YK-1 (S/N CH1156) Blades 7666A-6 (S/Ns B60854 and B60838) - These are 70" blades As best as I can determine, this prop is nearly identical to the one Van's sells for the 0-360, except that it has 70" blades as opposed to 72" blades. I do not know if the 70" blades are appropriate for use on Lyc I/0-360s. Prospective buyers should make their own determination of whether this prop is suitable to their intended application, particularly with regard to vibration surveys Interested parties contact Vince at (602) 957-2834 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Hartzell Constant-Speed prop for sale $3300 -
Location Phoenix, AZ > >Hartzell Prop for sale in Phoenix, AZ - Fresh O/H as of 4-5-00 > >Details copied from the new log are as follows >Hub HC-C2YK-1 (S/N CH1156) >Blades 7666A-6 (S/Ns B60854 and B60838) - These are 70" blades > >As best as I can determine, this prop is nearly identical to the one >Van's sells for the 0-360, except that >it has 70" blades as opposed to 72" blades. > >I do not know if the 70" blades are appropriate for use on Lyc >I/0-360s. Prospective buyers should >make their own determination of whether this prop is suitable to their >intended application, particularly >with regard to vibration surveys > The way I read the Type Certificate Data Sheet the blades are too short for any O-360 or IO-360. The TCDS can be found at: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel. nsf/edc23c1f1925ea3d852567620053a3c5/049af0a4847bb68b852567120043adb2/ $FILE/p-920.pdf This is a very long link which will be cut up into several lines by the time it gets to you. You will have to cut and paste to get it back into one long line. Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing LG boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fuel caps
> > > Question about the fuel caps. If I fill my tanks up > then let it sit, the > expansion of the fuel results in fuel fuel coming up > through the caps. Is > this normal? Are these supposed to be venting caps? > I'd think the caps would > seal and the fuel would go up through the vent > system. My caps are tight, > and the O-rings are good. It doesn't seem to ever > siphon out during flight, > only when it sits. > > If this is normal, is there any way to keep this > from happening besides just > not filling it up? I like to keep the tanks full > nearly to the top, but > don't want the fuel bubbling out all over the wing. > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) > Portland, OR > http://www.edt.com/homewing Randall: The small O-Ring on the center post does not seal very well. Disassemble the cap and coat all parts with a thin layer of Fuel Lube grease. Reassemble and the problem is gone. I saw the same thing at about 15-20 hours. After doing the above and replacing the roll pin with a solid 1/16" rod, I have not seen the problem again. Now have 530.0 hours. ==== Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, Flying So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GRENIER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Frey Fuse Jig
Steel Frey RV-4 fuse jig for sale. Jig is located in Nashua, NH. Using this kind of jig is without question the best way to build. Ray Grenier, putting everything together ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: Link to FAA Type Certificate Data Base
......clip out of Kevin's reply..this link is really great.. """""""" The way I read the Type Certificate Data Sheet the blades are too short for any O-360 or IO-360. The TCDS can be found at: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel. nsf/edc23c1f1925ea3d852567620053a3c5/049af0a4847bb68b852567120043adb2/ $FILE/p-920.pdf This is a very long link which will be cut up into several lines by the time it gets to you. You will have to cut and paste to get it back into one long line. Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing LG boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: Rv-6A tipup canopy frame
dear listers, anyone who has recently built a tip up canopy, please help me on this one. does the canopy frame sit directly on the longeron, or is there a gap between them, if a gap how much. also if i put a straight edge across the forward skin , i can make the forward part of the canopy frame line up with the sub panel, but the rear of the canopy frame sits about 3/4 of an inch lower, in other words it will not be a continuouse straight line from the firewall to the instrument panel. the 5/8 of an inch required between the subpanel and the canopy frame can only be achived ate the sides and in the middle on top, the rounded corners are about 3/4 to 1" away from the sub panel. any one else experience this, how did you correct it. the 3" wide strip that goes exterior of the canopy frame, does it overlap the longerone or sits on top flush with the side skins. is there a gasket that goes between the canopy frame and the longeron. enough questions for now. i would like my canopy to turn out like sam buchannon's whatcha say sam, any help scott tampa 6a tippsy canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: Frey Fuse Jig
Ray, what are you asking for it ? GRENIER(at)aol.com on 04/18/2000 08:46:05 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Frey Fuse Jig Steel Frey RV-4 fuse jig for sale. Jig is located in Nashua, NH. Using this kind of jig is without question the best way to build. Ray Grenier, putting everything together ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Doug, this is a bit misleading. Even though Va will go up with weight, it doesn't get anywhere near the speeds that an RV is capable of in level flight, much less a nose low attitude. This holds true for any aircraft whether its a C-150 or an F-15. Consequently, we all have the capability to "rip the wings off" at normal cruise speeds. You will stall before exceeding design G loads only at or below Va. Joe Waltz mailsorter-101-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc. Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:25:02 -0500 Snip > > The G meter only showed a span of two G (+2 to 0) from that sudden pitch > input. However, it felt like the plane had been hit by a missile because it > was so abrupt. I can now see how terribly EASY it is for a ham fisted pilot > to overload an RV in flight, especially when near gross weight. > Remember, at higher weights you are probably safer, cause if you are lucky you will stall before you break the airplane. Manuvering speed increases with gross weight. At the risk of being redundant, I will say again, and again, as I have many times before..... The stick between your legs is called the "Wing Removal Lever." Handle it accordingly. Tailwinds Doug Rozendaal www.petroblend.com/dougr dougr(at)petroblend.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Check the the friction of the gear with a fish scale as per Van,s instructions.I believe it is in one of the back issues of RV-aitor Ollie Washburn 6A Tampa ----- Original Message ----- From: <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:17 PM Subject: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy > > Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at > > > Jerry > Flying N4188J RV-6A > Building N909W RV-9A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dgmurray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A tipup canopy frame
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv-6A tipup canopy frame > dear listers, > anyone who has recently built a tip up canopy, please help me on this one. > does the canopy frame sit directly on the longeron, or is there a gap between > them, if a gap how much. The front of the canopy frame ends up about 3/8" above the longeron at the front and tapers back to 1/8" at the rear of the front canopy weldament. From there back it maintains the 1/8"gap all the way aft to the locking pins. > also if i put a straight edge across the forward > skin , i can make the forward part of the canopy frame line up with the sub > panel, but the rear of the canopy frame sits about 3/4 of an inch lower, in > other words it will not be a continuouse straight line from the firewall to > the instrument panel. the 5/8 of an inch required between the subpanel and > the canopy frame can only be achived ate the sides and in the middle on top, > the rounded corners are about 3/4 to 1" away from the sub panel. any one else > experience this, how did you correct it. I had a similar experience and corrected it by laying the aft canopy rails onto 1/8" shims amd clamping them to the longerons. Then align the lower edges of the weldament and canopy side rails and cut to fit. Then mount and drill the doubler C-613 into place. > the 3" wide strip that goes exterior of the canopy frame, does it overlap the > longerone or sits on top flush with the side skins. This can be done either way. I chose to make the strip flush with the fuselage sides with a very small (1/64") gap, but a lot of builders prefer to "shingle" the strip over the edge of the fuselage. I didn't like this metod as I feel that at some point the paint would get scrapped up and look bad. is there a gasket that > goes between the canopy frame and the longeron. This gap is filled with the P-strip seal. For the front six inches you will need to find a thicker material to seal the canopy. > enough questions for now. > i would like my canopy to turn out like sam buchannon's > > whatcha say sam, Keep building - as frustrating as the canopy is, you are going to be very happy when your done :-)) ----------------------------------------------------- Doug Murray RV-6 C-GRPA Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Rv-6A tipup canopy frame
Date: Apr 18, 2000
does the canopy frame sit directly on the longeron, or is there a gap between them, if a gap how much. The frame does not sit on the longeron. There is a gap that is wide enough to permit that gasket material you got with the finishing kit to seal the space. also if i put a straight edge across the forward skin , i can make the forward part of the canopy frame line up with the sub panel, but the rear of the canopy frame sits about 3/4 of an inch lower, in other words it will not be a continuouse straight line from the firewall to the instrument panel. the 5/8 of an inch required between the subpanel and the canopy frame can only be achived ate the sides and in the middle on top, the rounded corners are about 3/4 to 1" away from the sub panel. any one else experience this, how did you correct it. Mine didn't fit all that well. I had to "expand" it in the same manner that Sam B. did. He has a photo on his website. You might have to move things around some to get yours to fit, too. Be brave! the 3" wide strip that goes exterior of the canopy frame, does it overlap the longerone or sits on top flush with the side skins. is there a gasket that goes between the canopy frame and the longeron. Some builders make theirs flush others overlap. I think it looks cool to have it flush, but it requires a lot of work and more than a little luck to pull it off. Steve Soule Huntington, VT RV-6A cowl (speaking of looking cool, wait until you see your cowl on the airplane for the first time!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing separation accident, etc.
Doug, one issue is control authority. You are right... but to do this with a Cessna you need to be Arnold Schwartzingger with both feet on the panel to pull. With my B-35 Bonanza and RV-4 I litterly fly it with my finger tips because the control harmony & authority these aircraft have. I "could" fold my tail on my Bonanza (i.e. exceed design failure point) by pulling my control yoke with normal human strength with one finger from each hand. Indeed, early accident reports (incorrectly) stated the cause of the crashs in Bonanzas were failed tail or wing components when the real issue turned out to be (more often than not)) control authority issues. In this example ....... a Bonanza would come tumbling out of the clouds see the ground, pull the yoke real hard and collapse or fail a control surface and crash. Nevermind there wasn't enough altitude for proper recovery, or the aircraft was going over 290MPH, or there wasn't enough time, or IMC or what ever. Post accident investigation only reported a failed component. In my mind it was a faulty technique that lead to the broken or failed component. There are certainly accidents with faulty components that have nothing to do with control authority/harmony but this harangue was on a authority/technique thread..... ( Authority is the stick force needed to yield a certain response.....Harmony is the balance of the control surfaces and the input levels. I think of my days flying pipers & cessnas as driving old pickups with very loose steering. My Bonanza & RV are like driving my BMW ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Subject: Re: Rolling with full flap
In a message dated 4/17/00 10:10:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bramsec(at)idirect.com writes: << The copilot side flap is slightly high when up and at cruise speed >> Peter: Just a wild guess I suppose but if I were you I would adjust the flaps to be equal in cruise. Maybe the left flap is creating more drag/less lift than the copilot side when full down. Harry Crosby -6, still a long way from flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: 6A tipup canopy frame
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> does the canopy frame sit directly on the longeron, or is there a > gap between them, if a gap how much. ******************** I taped 1/8 shims on the 621's at the rear & just aft of the 604's. this will keep the frame 1/8 above the fuselage & you will install a rubber strip later. don't worry about the area forward of the 604 that is going down hill. also if i put a straight edge across the forward skin , i can make the forward part of the canopy frame line up with the sub panel, but the rear of the canopy frame sits about 3/4 of an inch lower, in other words it will not be a continuouse straight line from the > firewall to the instrument panel. ******************* The 603 instrument panel will be below the ex tented line. Your 613 side splice plates will determine the downward tilt of the side frame when you drill them on & where the bow is located.(1/4 from the roll bar) Build 5/8 splice block around the 668 to space the weldment to the subpanel, then clamp the sides down to their 1/8 spacers,catch 22, you need to also determine the end to get the 1/4 at the bow. then extend your line from the 601 across the 668 to the weldment. Now you can drill the side splices & you got to watch the front splice plate (614) that is going to control the width of the weldment. Mine was right on, but some guys have had to bend their weldments. Also the plexi will tend to push out after it is on. Keep in mind the 603 canopy skin needs to share the flange with front skin on the 668 yet be in a straight line with the tubing on the weldment. the 5/8 of an inch required between the > subpanel and the canopy frame can only be achived ate the sides and in the middle > on top, > the rounded corners are about 3/4 to 1" away from the sub panel. any > one else experience this, how did you correct it. > the 3" wide strip that goes exterior of the canopy frame, does it > overlap the longerone or sits on top flush with the side skins. is there a > gasket that goes between the canopy frame and the longeron. > enough questions for now. > i would like my canopy to turn out like sam buchannon's *************** I butted my c603 side skins cause I did not believe I could control the width that good. Lots of guys overlap about 1/4 I think. > scott> tampa> 6a tippsy> canopy > Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com *********************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Proseal mixed with MEK
For those of you who mixed the MEK with proseal to thin it. How are your experiences... Did you just thin it to brush on a sealing coat over the rivets or did you thin it to brush it on more easily on the ribs etc ?? How is it holding up ?? Gert p.s anybody get any 2000 rvator(s) yet ?? -- Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: first 2000 issue of the RVator (was Proseal mixed with MEK)
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Gert, I received the 1st 2000 RVator several weeks age. It was postmarked 3/29/00. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) Wings mailto:cjh(at)execpc.com -----Original Message----- p.s anybody get any 2000 rvator(s) yet ?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal mixed with MEK
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Used proseal w/o MEK to do the original construction of tank. Then came back with the MEK proseal mixture to cover rivet heads, fillet intersections, etc.. Cured just fine. Plane isn't flying yet, but pressure tested Ok. Sure makes it easier to brush on. I recommend it. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6 fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Proseal mixed with MEK > > For those of you who mixed the MEK with proseal to thin it. How are > your experiences... > > > Did you just thin it to brush on a sealing coat over the rivets or did > you thin it to brush it on more easily on the ribs etc ?? > > How is it holding up ?? > > > Gert > > p.s > anybody get any 2000 rvator(s) yet ?? > > > -- > > Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, > any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 > US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal mixed with MEK
Date: Apr 18, 2000
> For those of you who mixed the MEK with proseal to thin it. How are > your experiences... > > > Did you just thin it to brush on a sealing coat over the rivets or did > you thin it to brush it on more easily on the ribs etc ?? > > How is it holding up ?? I followed Sam Buchanan's suggestion and thinned the tank sealant from Van's with MEK. It seemed to me like the unthinned was too thick to work properly. I also used Sam's idea of cutting the bristles of acid brushes down to make them stiffer. Both ideas together worked very well for sealing over the rivets after they had been bucked and along the seam between the ribs and the skin. I used the unthinned sealant on the ribs themselves just before they were riveted, although I think the moderately thinned and brushed on would have worked fine. I could see no difference in the thinned and unthinned after it had set up. I haven't tested the tanks yet. Terry Watson RV-8A Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Noel" <bnoel(at)ausa.net>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Best reason to have tail dragger. ( just kidding). -----Original Message----- From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy > >Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at >landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A and have noticed it twice in >the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from landing to fast? It gets >worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. ???? > > >Jerry >Flying N4188J RV-6A >Building N909W RV-9A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: Priming under rivets
Date: Apr 18, 2000
Am I getting too hung up on this corrosion stuff? Yes....IMHO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com>
Subject: Info re Wattage of Leading Edge Lights
We would like to know the size in watts of the bulbs used in leading edge lights or taxi and landing lights. Don Wentz's excellent lighting kit uses 55 watt bulbs. Some builders have replaced these with 100 watt bulbs. Has anyone used 150 watt bulbs. Please reply off list to bhaan(at)easystreet.com. This information will help size the sold state MOSFET transistors used to switch on these bulbs. Thanks in advance, Bob Bob Haan http://easystreet.com/~bhaan/ bhaan(at)easystreet.com Portland, OR RV6A 24461 Wiring the panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Re: SNF time-to-climb
Date: Apr 18, 2000
This may be a nit but there is actually a Mattituck RV4 **and** the Flying Tiger RV3/4/6(?)/8(?). Seems I recall either Bruce or Mark telling me that is was comprised of parts from all the RVs. 3 and 4 for sure plus 6and/or 8. By the way the "3" part is the canopy as I recall. It is like a one seat 8 with that seat being the BACK seat. James ... going on memory, so I **MAY** be wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: <CW9371(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:10 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: SNF time-to-climb > > In a message dated 4/16/2000 8:29:07 PM Central Daylight Time, > sirs(at)neosoft.com writes: > > << An aside--- > Donah Nevill is Bohannon's 'guardian angel', marketing manager, chief > cook, etc. etc. etc... and the nicest lady you'll ever meet. Bruce, his > two sons, Donah, the Flyin' Tiger, the Mattituck RV4, two dogs, an > alligator, lots of hangar flying and a cold Bud is what you'll find at > the Flyin' Tiger airport (pvt) in Angleton, Texas. They love people and > airplanes and fly-in visitors are part of their everyday routine. You > can contact Bruce and Donah at . >> > > > Actually the flying tiger plane is more a F1 rocket then a RV 4. As a large > part of it was build and designed by Mark Fredricks, owner of team rocket. > The only part that is more RV4 then rocket to my knowledge is the wingspan > which is 4 feet longer then the RV4 and alot longer then the the clip winged > F1 rocket > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Priming under rivets
--- Joe Hine wrote: > > > Am I > getting too hung up on this corrosion stuff? > > > Yes....IMHO > Was going to mention on one post previous - those who would prime under rivets might think twice about the tank skins. Proseal will push out around those rivets as they're set - and since we went to the trouble of scuffing the outside of the skin _before_ dimpling, to give the proseal a good surface to which to adhere, will primer defeat that seal? Besides, the proseal should do the primer's job. Just a thought. Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
have you by chance retorqued your nose wheel? Glenn --- Bill Noel wrote: > > > Best reason to have tail dragger. ( just kidding). > -----Original Message----- > From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> > To: RV-List(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:22 PM > Subject: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy > > > > > >Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or > ossicilation back and forth at > >landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A > and have noticed it twice > in > >the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from > landing to fast? It gets > >worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. > ???? > > > > > >Jerry > >Flying N4188J RV-6A > >Building N909W RV-9A > > > > > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Linzel G . Civ - 43CES/CECP" <Gray.Linzel(at)pope.af.mil>
Subject: Wing Tips
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Has anyone noticed that the new RV9 wing tips look almost like Hoerner tips turned upside down? I've noticed that Bonham's time to climb RV derivative and the Rockets appear to have similar wing tips. Is this a case of the opposite being better? Gray Linzel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)atmel.com>
Subject: Young Eagles Rally / Chapter 72 BBQ
Chapter 72 in Colorado Springs, CO is having a Young Eagles Rally in conjunction with their monthly BBQ on April 22nd at Meadowlake Airport - 00V. We will be on the south-east end of the airport, you can't miss us! We will start flying young eagles around 9:00am, and the BBQ will be firing up around 11:00... If your in the neighborhood, drop in and have a burger and say hey! -Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N912V, wings http://vondane.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net>
Subject: Re: Priming under rivets
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Mike: The tank is not primed anywhere....including the outside of the skins. As you said, the proseal will prevent any corrosion under the rivets. My q-tip suggestion for priming dimpled skins excluded the tanks. Sorry for any confusion. Regards, Jeff Orear Rv6A ready to seal second tank Peshtigo, WI -----Original Message----- From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 10:46 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Priming under rivets > > >--- Joe Hine wrote: >> >> >> Am I >> getting too hung up on this corrosion stuff? >> >> >> Yes....IMHO >> > > >Was going to mention on one post previous - those who would prime under >rivets might think twice about the tank skins. Proseal will push out >around those rivets as they're set - and since we went to the trouble >of scuffing the outside of the skin _before_ dimpling, to give the >proseal a good surface to which to adhere, will primer defeat that >seal? Besides, the proseal should do the primer's job. >Just a thought. > >Mike Thompson >Austin, TX >-6 N140RV (Reserved) >Fuselage > > >Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. >http://invites.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116)
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: Re: Rolling with full flap
HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/17/00 10:10:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > bramsec(at)idirect.com writes: > > << The copilot side flap is slightly high when up and at cruise > speed >> > > Peter: Just a wild guess I suppose but if I were you I would adjust the > flaps to be equal in cruise. Maybe the left flap is creating more drag/less > lift than the copilot side when full down. > > Harry Crosby > -6, still a long way from flying > > I agree with the thought that it's the left flap. On my six, one flap cannot be "higher" than the other in the full up position because the way the inboard flap mates with the side and bottom of the fuselage. However, one flap could be "lower". This should be immediately obvious, tho, because a gap between the inboard flap and fuselage would be readily seen. In the full down position the flaps are creating a lot of drag and very little lift so a low left flap would cause that wing to drop. Boyd RV S6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv8don(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: Pin out for CP136M audio panel needed
Anyone got the pinout for the Narco CP136 Audio Panel? -Don RV8 NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy
Date: Apr 19, 2000
I used to have this happen to my tailwheel in my Champ from time to time. It was generally caused when I landed with just a bit of crab instead of perfectly straight. If the wheel is straight it should roll straight, but if it is angled to your direction of travel just a little bit then when the wheel touches down it will be knocked in the opposite direction, and then knocked back, and then knocked back, and then.... -- Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE Network Administrator Union Safe Deposit Bank 209-946-5116 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Noel [SMTP:bnoel(at)ausa.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 7:00 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy Best reason to have tail dragger. ( just kidding). -----Original Message----- From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> To: RV-List(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: RV-List: Rv-6A Nosewheel shimy > >Has anyone experianced a nosewheel shimy or ossicilation back and forth at >landing? I have about 40 hours myself on this 6A and have noticed it twice in >the last dozen or so landings. Is it caused from landing to fast? It gets >worse when I apply brakes and put load on it. ???? > > >Jerry >Flying N4188J RV-6A >Building N909W RV-9A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The RV Experience
I thought I recognized the style of writing and the crystal images. Welcome home, Senior Lobo. Keith Hughes Parker, CO Sam Buchanan wrote: > > He's baaaack! > > Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6captain(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: FOR SALE 0-320 H2AD
I have a Lycoming 0-320 H2AD for sale 0 time since major with all the accessories from Aero Sport Power. Engine comes with 1 year warranty from start up. would like to get $12,000,00, shipping is included anywhere in the U. S for this price. Eli Lewis Venice, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Let's be careful out there
Off the NTSB site: NTSB Identification: MIA00LA130 Accident occurred APR-12-00 at NATCHEZ, MS Aircraft: SCOTT VANS RV-4, registration: N123SC Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On April 12, 2000, about 1015 central standard time, a homebuilt Scott Vans RV-4, N123SC, owned by a private individual impacted with trees while turning to reverse direction near Natchez, Mississippi. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and no flight plan was filed for the 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight. The airplane was destroyed. The private-rated pilot reported minor injuries. The flight had originated from Stennis International Airport, Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, at 0810. The pilot told investigators that he saw clouds and rain in his flight path. He was in trail of another aircraft, and both were en route to Fort Worth, Texas. The first aircraft performed a 180-degree turn and the pilot of N123SC, followed. As he made the turn he said he experienced some turbulence, and started to go into inverted flight. The next thing he knew the ground was coming up, and the airplane struck trees. At 1015, the reported weather at Natchez-Adams Airport (HEZ), located about 15 miles west of the crash site was: lowest ceiling: 200 overcast, visibility: 2 1/2 miles, temperature 63 degrees F, dew point: 63 degrees F, wind from 020 degrees, at 6 knots, and the altimeter 30.16 inHg. Examination of the wreckage revealed no discrepancies with the flight controls or engine. Obviously this is preliminary and these reports are frequently significantly inaccurate, but how many accident reports, usually fatal, do we have to read that start like this? I wasn't there, and I understand that there may be other factors I'm not aware of, but if this narrative is accurate, this appears to have been totally preventable. I am relieved (and impressed) that someone walked away from putting an RV into trees, but -please- let's be careful out there. As a group, we can do much better James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Ft Worth Seminar . . .
The next seminar on the summer schedule is in Ft. Worth where George and Becky Orndorff are hosting this event for the third year. Hotel and location data for the program have been posted on our website at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html Individuals who have signed up for this program will be contacted in the next 10 days to finalize your registration. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( The only time you don't fail is the last ) ( time you try something, and it works. ) ( One fails forward toward success. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Probynne" <robynne(at)harare.iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal mixed with MEK
Date: Apr 19, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: gert <gert(at)execpc.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 2:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Proseal mixed with MEK > > For those of you who mixed the MEK with proseal to thin it. How are > your experiences... > > > Did you just thin it to brush on a sealing coat over the rivets or did > you thin it to brush it on more easily on the ribs etc ?? > > How is it holding up ?? > > the beads on the outer ribs and rivet heads Only enough to make it possible to apply it with a siringe> > It seams to make the sealant slighly porous but otherwise I don't see any problems J Rijkers Zimbabwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: 6A Nosewheel Shimmy Fixed
Thanks for all the replys. The problem was the breakaway was about 10#s. It only shimmied once until I put more air in the tires, for some reason I put the same in the nose as the mains, about 33 #s. Was doing it about every third landing then. I have tighened the nut and have a breakaway of 23 #s and lowered the nose wheel tire pressure to 22 #s. Alls great now. Thanks. Jerry Engel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Canopy - First Cuts
Date: Apr 19, 2000
On a 6A tip up I am about to do the first trimming of the canopy. I need a little more reasurance than fig 9-1 is sendind me. Please help out if you have done this before and can figuire out what I am saying. On the front, do I just cut where the angle in the plexi changes? On the sides, there are three lines where it looks as if it has been gripped while being formed. 3/4 of an inch abouve is a faint line in the plexi. Where do I cut? Thank-you, Norman Hunger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: [Fwd: Let's be careful out there]
Off the NTSB site: NTSB Identification: MIA00LA130 Accident occurred APR-12-00 at NATCHEZ, MS Aircraft: SCOTT VANS RV-4, registration: N123SC Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On April 12, 2000, about 1015 central standard time, a homebuilt Scott Vans RV-4, N123SC, owned by a private individual impacted with trees while turning to reverse direction near Natchez, Mississippi. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and no flight plan was filed for the 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight. The airplane was destroyed. The private-rated pilot reported minor injuries. The flight had originated from Stennis International Airport, Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, at 0810. The pilot told investigators that he saw clouds and rain in his flight path. He was in trail of another aircraft, and both were en route to Fort Worth, Texas. The first aircraft performed a 180-degree turn and the pilot of N123SC, followed. As he made the turn he said he experienced some turbulence, and started to go into inverted flight. The next thing he knew the ground was coming up, and the airplane struck trees. At 1015, the reported weather at Natchez-Adams Airport (HEZ), located about 15 miles west of the crash site was: lowest ceiling: 200 overcast, visibility: 2 1/2 miles, temperature 63 degrees F, dew point: 63 degrees F, wind from 020 degrees, at 6 knots, and the altimeter 30.16 inHg. Examination of the wreckage revealed no discrepancies with the flight controls or engine. Obviously this is preliminary and these reports are frequently significantly inaccurate, but how many accident reports, usually fatal, do we have to read that start like this? I wasn't there, and I understand that there may be other factors I'm not aware of, but if this narrative is accurate, this appears to have been totally preventable. I am relieved (and impressed) that someone walked away from putting an RV into trees, but -please- let's be careful out there. As a group, we can do much better James Freeman Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:01:31 -0500 From: James Freeman <cd005677(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Let's be careful out there Off the NTSB site: NTSB Identification: MIA00LA130 Accident occurred APR-12-00 at NATCHEZ, MS Aircraft: SCOTT VANS RV-4, registration: N123SC Injuries: 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On April 12, 2000, about 1015 central standard time, a homebuilt Scott Vans RV-4, N123SC, owned by a private individual impacted with trees while turning to reverse direction near Natchez, Mississippi. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and no flight plan was filed for the 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight. The airplane was destroyed. The private-rated pilot reported minor injuries. The flight had originated from Stennis International Airport, Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, at 0810. The pilot told investigators that he saw clouds and rain in his flight path. He was in trail of another aircraft, and both were en route to Fort Worth, Texas. The first aircraft performed a 180-degree turn and the pilot of N123SC, followed. As he made the turn he said he experienced some turbulence, and started to go into inverted flight. The next thing he knew the ground was coming up, and the airplane struck trees. At 1015, the reported weather at Natchez-Adams Airport (HEZ), located about 15 miles west of the crash site was: lowest ceiling: 200 overcast, visibility: 2 1/2 miles, temperature 63 degrees F, dew point: 63 degrees F, wind from 020 degrees, at 6 knots, and the altimeter 30.16 inHg. Examination of the wreckage revealed no discrepancies with the flight controls or engine. Obviously this is preliminary and these reports are frequently significantly inaccurate, but how many accident reports, usually fatal, do we have to read that start like this? I wasn't there, and I understand that there may be other factors I'm not aware of, but if this narrative is accurate, this appears to have been totally preventable. I am relieved (and impressed) that someone walked away from putting an RV into trees, but -please- let's be careful out there. As a group, we can do much better James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MTMCGOWAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 19, 2000
Subject: Re: The RV Experience
!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Let's be careful out there
James Freeman wrote: > > > Off the NTSB site: > > NTSB Identification: MIA00LA130 > > Accident occurred APR-12-00 at > NATCHEZ, MS > Aircraft: SCOTT VANS RV-4, > registration: N123SC > Injuries: 1 Minor. > > This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain > errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final > report has been > completed. > > On April 12, 2000, about 1015 central standard time, a homebuilt Scott > Vans RV-4, N123SC, owned by a private individual impacted with trees > while > turning to reverse direction near Natchez, Mississippi. Instrument > meteorological conditions prevailed at the time, and no flight plan was > filed for the 14 > CFR Part 91 personal flight. The airplane was destroyed. The > private-rated pilot reported minor injuries. The flight had originated > from Stennis International > Airport, Bay Saint Louis, Mississippi, at 0810. The pilot told > investigators that he saw clouds and rain in his flight path. He was in > trail of another aircraft, > and both were en route to Fort Worth, Texas. The first aircraft > performed a 180-degree turn and the pilot of N123SC, followed. As he > made the turn he said > he experienced some turbulence, and started to go into inverted flight. > The next thing he knew the ground was coming up, and the airplane struck > trees. At > 1015, the reported weather at Natchez-Adams Airport (HEZ), located about > 15 miles west of the crash site was: lowest ceiling: 200 overcast, > visibility: 2 1/2 > miles, temperature 63 degrees F, dew point: 63 degrees F, wind from 020 > degrees, at 6 knots, and the altimeter 30.16 inHg. Examination of the > wreckage > revealed no discrepancies with the flight controls or engine. > > Obviously this is preliminary and these reports are frequently > significantly inaccurate, but how many accident reports, usually fatal, > do we have to read that start like this? > > I wasn't there, and I understand that there may be other factors I'm not > aware of, but if this narrative is accurate, this appears to have been > totally preventable. > > I am relieved (and impressed) that someone walked away from putting an > RV into trees, but -please- let's be careful out there. As a group, we > can do much better > > James Freeman I WAS there, or at least close. We spent Wed & Th in a motel in Gulfport, about 20 mi east of Stennis. The entire area from just north of New Orleans northeast through Jackson MS (our home) was reporting 500 or worse ceilings from Early Wed until near noon on Fri. When we finally headed home on Fri, we got all the way to downtown Jackson at a reasonably comfortable 1500 agl (following a major highway, just in case) & had to divert only 12 miles from home. The ceiling dropped from around 2000' to less than 800' like a wall in front of us. These were reported #'s from an a/c on instrument approach to a downtown airport directly in our flight path. Please be careful if you fly down south. We have our own set of hazards, and they may not be as obvious as tall mountains. Not only weather conditions, but hostile terrain with large expanses of forest with no roads or open landing areas. Sorry for the tirade. Charlie Happy to be home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy - First Cuts
Date: Apr 19, 2000
> On the front, do I just cut where the angle in the plexi changes? Initially, yes, but you will end up cutting further back than that. The goal here is to cut the front until the rear rises and fits tightly against the rear skin, all the way around the curve. When the front is trimmed back and held down on the canopy frame skin, and the rear is pushing up on the skin and is a tight fit, that's when you make the cut. > > On the sides, there are three lines where it looks as if it has been gripped > while being formed. 3/4 of an inch abouve is a faint line in the plexi. > Where do I cut? Just cut the at the top of the grip lines. After the canopy is cut in half, you will be pushing the sides in to find out where to finally trim the sides..but wait until you split the canopy. Also, a targa strip will add a nice finish and keep out air and water. I would highly recommend downloading Wil Cresinger's canopy notes, and pay very close attention to them....throw the Van's instructions away for the tip up canopy. You can see some photos of my installation at: http://members.home.net/rv8er/Fuselage/canopy.htm Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit > Norman Hunger > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: Klaus Heddergott <klaus(at)yosemite.net>
Subject: RV-3 Project
Charlie Johnson is selling his Rv-3 Project. More complete than a quick-build kit, if there was one for a RV-3. For construction status details and pictures and price contact Charlie Johnson at 209-966-6423. Or me by e-mail klaus(at)yosemite.net. This is really well built. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: Klaus Heddergott <klaus(at)yosemite.net>
Subject: RV-3 Project
Charlie Johnson is selling his Rv-3 Project. More complete than a quick-build kit, if there was one for a RV-3. For construction status details and pictures and price contact Charlie Johnson at 209-966-6423. Or me by e-mail klaus(at)yosemite.net. This is really well built. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 19, 2000
From: pdsmith <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: D-Day
Congratulations Steve: Welcome to the fraternity of slow quick builders. I echo your comments regarding the selection procedure - IMO there is nothing else out there with the functionality, price, performance and straightforwardness of building of the RV's. It took me 320 hours to complete the empennage, and now I keep pushing back my completion date because I can't resist adding options such as electric aileron trim, PSS angle of attack system, rear seat throttle et al. You name it & I'll buy it. Here's a tip - check out the many fine web sites folks have put up to generously share their knowledge & experience. Good building, Phil Smith, 80691 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: tip of the day
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Just a quick tip to those of you that might be close to bolting the wings on permanently. Be sure to install the aileron torque tube in the wing "before" you bolt the wing to the fuselage. My wife and I spent about two hours last night fitting the last wing on, being careful to not scratch the paint,etc. As I was hunched over in the cockpit fitting the bolts, I happened to notice that my torque tube was sitting over on the workbench. It was not fun removing the bolts, disconnecting the wires, and pulling the wing off. Didn't make my "helper" very happy either. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Getting very close" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: Re: tip of the day
You couldn't insert them via the wing tip ??? I did. Why you ask......I did the same thing. BTW if you could have inserted them via the wing tip DON'T let your helper know . (Hell.. even if my tips were pop-reveted on there would have been a small inspection hole that just happened to line up with a lightning hole that a control tube would just happen to fit down..........) rpflanze(at)iquest.net on 04/20/2000 10:37:43 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: tip of the day Just a quick tip to those of you that might be close to bolting the wings on permanently. Be sure to install the aileron torque tube in the wing "before" you bolt the wing to the fuselage. My wife and I spent about two hours last night fitting the last wing on, being careful to not scratch the paint,etc. As I was hunched over in the cockpit fitting the bolts, I happened to notice that my torque tube was sitting over on the workbench. It was not fun removing the bolts, disconnecting the wires, and pulling the wing off. Didn't make my "helper" very happy either. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Getting very close" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: tip of the day
> > You couldn't insert them via the wing tip ??? I did. LOL!! I was going to follow up with that very same thing. :) Now he's _really_ unhappy! Note: We're laughing _with_ you, Randy, not at you. Lord knows we've all done something like that, and like retract drivers: there are those who have, and those who will. I personally envy you being at the point to make that mistake! :) :) :) P.S. Don't tell the helper! Mike Thompson Austin, Texas -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: fitting HS skins, etc.
From: "Robert Dickson" <bubba(at)coastalnet.com>
I'm a newbie, working on a -6A emp while waiting for the qb to arrive. I've been enjoying the list for a few months now, and prowling through the archives. I've also got a copy of G.O.'s video. My wife thinks I'm obsessed and deranged (nothing new -she thinks I'm still working on my instrument rating). I want to do this thing *right*, but have no illusions about creating a show-piece. I just want to fly an RV. All that said, I've got a few concerns and questions. I'm at the stage where the hs rear spar, ribs and front spar are in the jig. I'm fitting the skins and trying to line up the front spar and ribs. I've drawn line down the center of all the flanges with a sharpie fine point (not very fine). These lines aren't as thick as G.O.'s, but plenty thick imho. When I look through the holes in the skins I see all line, parts of line and edges of line, but nothing seems to line up *perfectly*. With the skins in position on one side of the hs I took an extra fine point pen and marked the edges of the ribs on the inside of the skins just to see where the ribs are in relation to the holes when I remove the skins. While the line of holes isn't smack down the middle, they don't look too bad to me, i.e., nothing real close to an edge. Is this ok? Another question (maybe a problem) - with the tip ribs of the hs as close to perpendicular to the rear spar as I can make them, I've got about 1/8" gap between the end of the front spar and the tip rib on one side. The front spar was less than 1/16" short after it was done, and it lines up well with the tip ribs at 7 5/8" as called for, so do I just shim it (pretty thick shim, but doable), or is there something else I should do? Robert Dickson Fayetteville, NC -6A emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: tip of the day
OH @#$@#! I just put my did the final installation on my wings last night as well. And as I was closing the hangar door, I noticed the the push rods are sitting on a shelf....... Are you sure you can't get them in from the wing tips? Come on Randy, why didn't you post this yesterday? :-) Laird (with the wings coming back off) RV-6 22923 SoCal Just a quick tip to those of you that might be close to bolting the wings on permanently. Be sure to install the aileron torque tube in the wing "before" you bolt the wing to the fuselage. My wife and I spent about two hours last night fitting the last wing on, being careful to not scratch the paint,etc. As I was hunched over in the cockpit fitting the bolts, I happened to notice that my torque tube was sitting over on the workbench. It was not fun removing the bolts, disconnecting the wires, and pulling the wing off. Didn't make my "helper" very happy either. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Getting very close" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fitting HS skins, etc.
--- Robert Dickson wrote: > I'm a newbie, working on a -6A emp while waiting for the qb to > arrive. Welcome! > While the line of holes isn't smack down the > middle, they don't look too bad to me, i.e., nothing real close to an > edge. > Is this ok? You're doing fine. If you can see _any_ of the line drawn down the middle of the flange, you have plenty of room either side. > Another question (maybe a problem) - with the tip ribs of the hs as > close to > perpendicular to the rear spar as I can make them, I've got about > 1/8" gap > between the end of the front spar and the tip rib on one side. The > front > spar was less than 1/16" short after it was done, and it lines up > well with > the tip ribs at 7 5/8" as called for, so do I just shim it (pretty > thick > shim, but doable), or is there something else I should do? I'll confess being a little hazy about your situation. If the gap is between the rib and the front spar, just re-bend the flange on the rib to make it fit. If the end of the front spar doesn't line up with the outside edge of the rib, well... the best thing is to make the skeleton match the skin. Perpendicular to the rear spar is a secondary concern. If the rib lines up with the holes in the skin but is still off the spar, you should have enough wiggle room to adjust the rib and still keep that line in sight through the pre-punched holes in the skin. Have fun! Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 N140RV (Reserved) Fuselage Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dbiddle" <dbiddle(at)wans.net>
Subject: Rudder to VS, rudder cable hole in fuse
Date: Apr 20, 2000
RV6A Fitting rudder and running rudder cables. Browsing the archives I find VS spar to rudder spar distance should be 2" top, 2.5" bottom. Rod end bearing centers to rudder spar- top 13/16, middle 7/8, bottom 15/16. I cannot find any of this on any of the drawings or instructions. Questions: How large should the hole in the fuse be where the rudder cable exits? Drawing 34 shows where this hole is located but not the size. The holes in the bulkheads that the grommets press into are 5/8". That would be much too large vertically. Should the cable exit holes be round or oval? should I just size it so the nylon sleeve is not bent? I also have the rudder cable fairings. Should I use screws and nutplates to install these? Thank you. Dave Biddle RV6A Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: tip of the day
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Randy wrote: > Just a quick tip to those of you that might be close to bolting the wings on > permanently. Be sure to install the aileron torque tube in the wing > "before" you bolt the wing to the fuselage. > I left the wing tips off and pushrods go in and out easily with wing on. Wing tips and fairings very last to go on. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder to VS, rudder cable hole in fuse
Date: Apr 20, 2000
I employed what I thought was a neat little trick here. I used the cable fairings from Avery. The fairings are held on with 4 small flush mounted stainless screws and use a rivet ring with nutplates just like the other access doors on the airplane. In the middle I cut an elliptical hole the width of the plastic cable sheathing. I cut the hole long enough to allow the sheathing to lie horizontal against the side skin with just the tip of the sheathing peeking out from underneath the fairing. (The opening is almost as long as the fairing.) I then built a clamp using the rubber off of a cushion clamp. My clamp looks just like a cushion clamp except at the top, which is dimpled and wide enough to hold the dimpled nut plate which is flush riveted on. This assembly is mounted on the inside about 4" back from the cable fairing and is held in place from the outside with a flush mounted stainless screw. It hold the cable sheathing very securely, allows for smooth movement of the cable, and looks very nice. It's much harder to describe than it is to build. Took me just a couple of hours one evening to do both sides. Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Getting close" > > Questions: > How large should the hole in the fuse be where the rudder cable exits? > Drawing 34 shows where this hole is located but not the size. The holes in > the bulkheads that the grommets press into are 5/8". That would be much too > large vertically. Should the cable exit holes be round or oval? should I > just size it so the nylon sleeve is not bent? I also have the rudder cable > fairings. Should I use screws and nutplates to install these? > Thank you. > > Dave Biddle > RV6A > Phoenix, AZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: tip of the day
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Thanks guys for all your support!!!!! Just kidding. My wingtips are pop riveted, sanded smooth, and painted so going through the tip wasn't an option. I can assure you that I stared at that thing for almost a half-hour before deciding that pulling the wing off was the only option. I will add, for those of you not there yet, that I would NOT pop rivet the tips on if I had to do it over again. I think it takes more work to get it looking nice, you lose the option to remove the tips for access reasons, and in retrospect, I think the screws look more professional. Besides, it would have saved me from hearing from my helper "Don't they have step-by step instructions to tell you how to put this together?" "Well dear, you have to understand, building is a learning experience and ..........". Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Ears still burning" > > OH @#$@#! I just put my did the final installation on my wings last night as well. And as I was closing the hangar door, I noticed the the push rods are sitting on a shelf....... > > Are you sure you can't get them in from the wing tips? > > Come on Randy, why didn't you post this yesterday? :-) > > Laird (with the wings coming back off) RV-6 22923 > SoCal > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: 6A tip up Canopy - First Cuts
>I WOULD NOT EVER drill plexi with nothing but a plexi drill. I tried on >scrap with ever technique I could think of. seems to crack when it goes >out the back each time. > >Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com >*********************************************** Don, Have to disagree with you on this point. A Unibit does a great job of drilling plexi. Whatever type of bit you use you should support the backside of the plexi with something (wood, plastic, whatever) so the bit doesnt break out into the air. That will minimize the possibility of cracking. Mike Wills RV4 engine stuff (Mazda 13B) willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Rudder to VS, rudder cable hole in fuse
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> RV6A > Fitting rudder and running rudder cables. > Browsing the archives I find VS spar to rudder spar distance should > be 2"top, 2.5" bottom. ************ Right!, The VS henge brackets lengths makes the center line of the rod ends go from < 1 1/4 at the top to > 1 7/16 at the bottom. If you set the top to 2 & the bottom to 2.5, then pull a string & set the middle rod end to conform. > Rod end bearing centers to rudder spar- top 13/16, middle 7/8, bottom 15/16. > I cannot find any of this on any of the drawings or instructions. ******************* Can't find any of those numbers on my prints. > Questions: > How large should the hole in the fuse be where the rudder cable exit? > Drawing 34 shows where this hole is located but not the size. The > holes in the bulkheads that the grommets press into are 5/8". That would be > much too large vertically. Should the cable exit holes be round or oval? > should I just size it so the nylon sleeve is not bent? ******** The size of the plastic hose that is used . Use a rod to bend the hole (oval) to conform to the cable. I used adel clamps on the inside to hole the plastic tubes. I also have the rudder cable fairings. Should I use screws and nutplates to install these? ****************** Rivets, but I prosealed them on. > Thank you. Dave Biddle > RV6A > Phoenix, AZ > ************ When you get to the stops, make sure the other cable don't drag the stop. Just a little high & the dragging will go away. The lower bolt in the VS needs to look forward or the bottom cover will rub the bolt end. 35 degrees for me ended up about 1.2 inches from the drooping elevator. When running the cable push the grommet on the cable , then install & go to the next BH, both cable ends will not go through a grommet installed. Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com *********************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Capacitance senders
Has anyone that put the capacitance senders in their their tanks mounted the converter to the inboard rib? Is there another place to mount it, or should I make provisions now for some sort of bracket to hold it? If so, what size/shape is this converter, and how did you mount it? Thanks, Keith Hughes RV-6 Tanks Parker, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
Subject: tip of the day
Date: Apr 20, 2000
I would have been in the same boat a couple of weeks ago putting my -8 together, but the removable tips saved me. My problem now is connecting airspeed tubing. I may have to get creative since I can't reach the tubing exiting the wing root now that the wing is on... Your statement about the instructions is very ironic. I think Van's has done a super job in that area. When I talk to people about building an RV, the first advice I give is to "just read and follow the instructions!" That bit me so many times... Good luck and let us know about your test flight. Bryan Jones Pearland, TX -8, test flight soon -----Original Message----- From: Randy J. Pflanzer [mailto:rpflanze(at)iquest.net] Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 11:47 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: tip of the day Thanks guys for all your support!!!!! Just kidding. My wingtips are pop riveted, sanded smooth, and painted so going through the tip wasn't an option. I can assure you that I stared at that thing for almost a half-hour before deciding that pulling the wing off was the only option. I will add, for those of you not there yet, that I would NOT pop rivet the tips on if I had to do it over again. I think it takes more work to get it looking nice, you lose the option to remove the tips for access reasons, and in retrospect, I think the screws look more professional. Besides, it would have saved me from hearing from my helper "Don't they have step-by step instructions to tell you how to put this together?" "Well dear, you have to understand, building is a learning experience and ..........". Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Ears still burning" > > OH @#$@#! I just put my did the final installation on my wings last night as well. And as I was closing the hangar door, I noticed the the push rods are sitting on a shelf....... > > Are you sure you can't get them in from the wing tips? > > Come on Randy, why didn't you post this yesterday? :-) > > Laird (with the wings coming back off) RV-6 22923 > SoCal > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: EARL FORTNER <e.fortner(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: tip of the day
don't know about the six but you could have removed the wing tip on a 4 and slid the tube in. pcondon(at)csc.com wrote: > > > You couldn't insert them via the wing tip ??? I did. Why you ask......I did the > same thing. BTW if you could have inserted them via the wing tip DON'T let > your helper know . (Hell.. even if my tips were pop-reveted on there would > have been a small inspection hole that just happened to line up with a lightning > hole that a control tube would just happen to fit down..........) > > rpflanze(at)iquest.net on 04/20/2000 10:37:43 AM > > Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: tip of the day > > > Just a quick tip to those of you that might be close to bolting the wings on > permanently. Be sure to install the aileron torque tube in the wing > "before" you bolt the wing to the fuselage. > > My wife and I spent about two hours last night fitting the last wing on, > being careful to not scratch the paint,etc. As I was hunched over in the > cockpit fitting the bolts, I happened to notice that my torque tube was > sitting over on the workbench. > > It was not fun removing the bolts, disconnecting the wires, and pulling the > wing off. Didn't make my "helper" very happy either. > > Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 > "Getting very close" > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: tip of the day
Adding a inspection hole with a doubler to help route the hose ( maybe two ) might do the trick. I know of a Mooney out there with one exrta inspection hole & cover. A line boy pushed it off a wing jack. Skin damage only..didn't want a patch & didn't want to replace the skin. No one knows the repair was done because the inspection hole/plate looks like it came from the factory. bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com on 04/20/2000 02:59:14 PM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: tip of the day <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com> I would have been in the same boat a couple of weeks ago putting my -8 together, but the removable tips saved me. My problem now is connecting airspeed tubing. I may have to get creative since I can't reach the tubing exiting the wing root now that the wing is on... Your statement about the instructions is very ironic. I think Van's has done a super job in that area. When I talk to people about building an RV, the first advice I give is to "just read and follow the instructions!" That bit me so many times... Good luck and let us know about your test flight. Bryan Jones Pearland, TX -8, test flight soon -----Original Message----- From: Randy J. Pflanzer [mailto:rpflanze(at)iquest.net] Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 11:47 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: tip of the day Thanks guys for all your support!!!!! Just kidding. My wingtips are pop riveted, sanded smooth, and painted so going through the tip wasn't an option. I can assure you that I stared at that thing for almost a half-hour before deciding that pulling the wing off was the only option. I will add, for those of you not there yet, that I would NOT pop rivet the tips on if I had to do it over again. I think it takes more work to get it looking nice, you lose the option to remove the tips for access reasons, and in retrospect, I think the screws look more professional. Besides, it would have saved me from hearing from my helper "Don't they have step-by step instructions to tell you how to put this together?" "Well dear, you have to understand, building is a learning experience and ..........". Randy Pflanzer N417G RV-6 "Ears still burning" > > OH @#$@#! I just put my did the final installation on my wings last night as well. And as I was closing the hangar door, I noticed the the push rods are sitting on a shelf....... > > Are you sure you can't get them in from the wing tips? > > Come on Randy, why didn't you post this yesterday? :-) > > Laird (with the wings coming back off) RV-6 22923 > SoCal > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Micah Froese" <mfroese(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: IFR
Date: Apr 20, 2000
I'm new to this list and have a question for those already flying. Is the RV 6 or 8 stable enough for instrument flight? I would not consider an aircraft that is as fast as an RV without being able to go IMC as the need arises. Is anyone out there flying IFR on a regular basis? Can it be done without an autopilot? Micha Froese Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Bruce Gray <brucegray(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
I suspect the RV is like the Glasair III I'm building. Neutral stability, which means it goes, and stays going, where you point it. Great for sport flying but lousy for IFR. That is unless you don't want to look at any maps, charts, or approach plates. My Stec 55 autopilot is a go/no go item for IFR. Bruce Micah Froese wrote: > > I'm new to this list and have a question for those already flying. Is the > RV 6 or 8 stable enough for instrument flight? I would not consider an > aircraft that is as fast as an RV without being able to go IMC as the need > arises. Is anyone out there flying IFR on a regular basis? Can it be done > without an autopilot? > > Micha Froese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Anthony Wiebe" <awiebe(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: No, I'm not starting another priming thread
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Does anyone out there have experience with BASF Epoxy Primers (EP Series). Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Apr 20, 2000
I am acting as safety pilot for a friend that is working on his IFR rating in an RV-6. It seems more stable than my Bellanca 14-13-2. I have had my hands on the controls and I find it easy to control but not as sensitive as a Grumman trainer. It isn't a yank and bank type plane but his plane trims out well and flies easily at 180 MPH. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Micah Froese" <mfroese(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: RV-List: IFR > > I'm new to this list and have a question for those already flying. Is the > RV 6 or 8 stable enough for instrument flight? I would not consider an > aircraft that is as fast as an RV without being able to go IMC as the need > arises. Is anyone out there flying IFR on a regular basis? Can it be done > without an autopilot? > > Micha Froese > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbalch1(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: Float-type senders for inverted tank...
Hello All, I'm currently in the process of mounting the tank on my second wing. This is the inverted tank, with the opening for the sender in the second bay of the rear baffle. Does anyone have any advice/diagrams/photos, etc. of how the float arm should be bent for this type of installation? Also, where do the sender's wire(s) run? I think I'll need to drill small holes through the two inboard-most z-brackets for the sender wiring, but I'd like to have this confirmed before actually doing the drilling. Thoughts...? Regards, Ken Balch Ashland, MA RV-8 #81125 right wing done, left wing in jig, fuse kit in workshop urging me on... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder to VS, rudder cable hole in fuse
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Basically just mark the location, drill to the DIA of the tube and then It needs to be elongated a little so that you can have the nylon tube exit straight back. Highly recommend George Orndorff's rudder cable farings to cover this exit, then the hole really doesn't matter..not bad for $12 I think.. I pop riveted the fairings on. Can't see any reason to get them off in the future. If you needed to replace the nylon tube, it could be slid out, cut and a new one installed. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://members.home.net/rv8er Finish Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Float-type senders for inverted tank...
> >Hello All, > >I'm currently in the process of mounting the tank on my second wing. This is >the inverted tank, with the opening for the sender in the second bay of the >rear baffle. Does anyone have any advice/diagrams/photos, etc. of how the >float arm should be bent for this type of installation? Ken, I traced out my wire on a piece of paper, after finally getting it bent. I figured I might need to make another one someday. I'll scan the tracing and send it to you directly in a half hour or so. I'll put the file on my web page, and post the link later tonight, or tomorrow, just in case anyone else is interested. Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing LG boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Apr 20, 2000
> I'm new to this list and have a question for those already flying. Is the > RV 6 or 8 stable enough for instrument flight? I would not consider an > aircraft that is as fast as an RV without being able to go IMC as the need > arises. Is anyone out there flying IFR on a regular basis? Can it be done > without an autopilot? > > Micha Froese > Micha, I'm doing it now. My instructor is teaching me in my RV-4. I've got @ 15 hrs. so far. Everything is going fine. You do have to be on top of the airplane though. I use a kneeboard and have my Jeppesen strip charts on that kneeboard. Cockpit organization is the key to being able to fly without an autopilot. If you plan on doing hard IFR into O'Hara you might want to consider buying a Bonanza. If you plan on getting out of or into foggy areas and climbing above the clouds, I don't see why I'm not going to be able to do that. I rode check pilot with a guy in a bonanza last year. He tuned his radios, watched the plane turn onto approach and all he did was reduce the throttle and put out the flaps. I don't think I'd ride with him if he really had to fly the airplane. If I have to replace my turn coordinator I'll replace it with a wing leveler, not because I think it's a must but because it will make the workload easier. So far I've shot ILS, NDB, LOC, Back Coarse, GPS, Circling, holding patterns and VOR approaches at the biggest airports in Indiana. I haven't had any trouble and I've been prepared to follow ATC's instructions when they've changed my flight plans. So to make a long story shorter, Yes Virginia, you can fly IFR without a autopilot. Hope this helps you. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Just one opinion. There are others who may think differently. I have not flown an RV under IFR. I've flown many hours of actual IFR and more than that under a hood in a Bonanza and in aTurbo 210. Neither airplane had an autopilot. I found the Bonanza a handful for any extended IFR. Breaking your scan to look for a chart or to write down a complicated clearance could let the airplane very quickly make excursions...generally in a spiral mode. To me, the RV series is about as sensitive to aileron inputs as the Bonanza and more sensitive in pitch. Both airplanes exhibit neutral spiral stability. I'd expect that the RV could be flown IFR without an autopilot, but I personally wouldn't want to do it for much more than punching up through a thin layer of stratus or shooting an easy approach from on top. My RV-8 is being configured for day/night VFR, with gyros and radios that will allow me to get down safely if I get caught on top. Just one opinion. George Kilishek On gear, dealing with radios, instruments and wiring. ----- Original Message ----- From: Micah Froese <mfroese(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: RV-List: IFR > > I'm new to this list and have a question for those already flying. Is the > RV 6 or 8 stable enough for instrument flight? I would not consider an > aircraft that is as fast as an RV without being able to go IMC as the need > arises. Is anyone out there flying IFR on a regular basis? Can it be done > without an autopilot? > > Micha Froese > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Float-type senders for inverted tank...
> >> >>Hello All, >> >>I'm currently in the process of mounting the tank on my second wing. This is >>the inverted tank, with the opening for the sender in the second bay of the >>rear baffle. Does anyone have any advice/diagrams/photos, etc. of how the >>float arm should be bent for this type of installation? > >Ken, > >I traced out my wire on a piece of paper, after finally getting it >bent. I figured I might need to make another one someday. > >I'll scan the tracing and send it to you directly in a half hour or so. > >I'll put the file on my web page, and post the link later tonight, or >tomorrow, just in case anyone else is interested. The drawing is available at: http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/wing/fuel%20sender.gif It probably won't print the right size, but I added the dimensions, and the angle will still be useful. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (LG Boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6captain(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 For Sale
I have a Lycoming 0-320 H2AD for sale 0 time since major with all the accessories from Aero Sport Power. Engine comes with 1 year warranty from start up. $12,000,00/offer Eli Lewis Venice, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 20, 2000
Subject: Night Legal Strobe System
Has anyone had a problem with the FAA/DAR airworthiness inspection getting signed off night legal with position lights, single strobe on vertical stabilizer, and instrument lights. Thanks Dave Beizer RV-6A final assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Bruce: I was up in my -3 today and tried the yaw dampening experiment. If I did it correctly, my plane does four to six oscillations before settling down (on the same heading as before I jabbed the rudder pedal.) If I jab the right rudder pedal, of course the nose swings out to the right, turns back through the original heading to the left (a pretty good swing), and then makes much smaller oscillations until it settles down. I don't know what variables should be taken into account, such as air speed, etc., but I didn't have my knee board with me for recording anything anyway. I did the rudder jabs about 15 times, both left and right, some jabs light and others heavy. I was indicating about 125 to 130 knots at 6,500 ft msl, on a warm day. (My outside air temp gauge is on the blink). I tried to hold the stick in a neutral position through all this. A few times I thought I detected very small oscillations up to a count of 7 or 8, but they were so tiny I wasn't sure whether to count them. The air was a slightly rough and was causing movement that big without any control inputs. Does this mean my plane dampens yaw better than other -3's (assuming I did the test correctly)? If so it could be because of the little forward extension of the vertical stabilizer which the builder put on it. I hope this helps. Chuck N893FS Lubbock, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)seanet.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 11:44 PM Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Bruce Meacham" > > The oscilation should stop in six cycles or less. I'd very much like to > know your results. > > Bruce Meacham > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)ttacs.ttu.edu> > To: > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 7:07 AM > Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > > > > --> RV3-List message posted by: Charles Chandler > > > > Bruce: I guess I jumped to conclusions as to what you were talking about. > > I'll have to try the yaw dampening test and see what happens. Yes, I've > > been slammed all over the place in turbulence. > > > > Chuck > > N893FS > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 20, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Another Tip O' the Day
Whew.....aileron tubes went in no problem from the tip (without the wingtips on), so I didn't have to pull the wings. That made me so happy, that I thought I pass along my Tip O' the day for you all. I had forgotten to order my wing walk grip tape on my last order from Van's. As I was headed out to the hangar after work I had a thought (I know what your thinking....but it does happen sometimes!), I stopped by the local skate/surf shop and asked for a piece of skateboard grip tape. I took it to the hangar and compared it with another -6A in the local EAA chapter hanger and it was the same stuff, just 3/8" narrower. Van's sells their tape for $16, surf shop was $10 for 2 pieces. Looks like I just saved enough for 2.4 gallons of100LL. That enough to do the fuel remaining test......and maybe the first engine run..... Laird RV-6 22923 final assy/test Camarillo, CA, EAA Chapter 723 hangar (that's pronounced Cam' a rio round here) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 20, 2000
That's great! I finally had an opertunity to run the same test today as well. I did my test at 180mph TAS @ 5000' Density Alt, OAT: 11C. I was breaking in a new engine and I couldn't run bellow 180 in cruise. After introducing a half rudder peddal throw doublette (that's both left then right rudder inputs). What I found was that the oscillation dampens out after about six to eight cycles as well. Like you observed, those last few are hard to tell as they blend into the ambiant turbullence. General Notes: I found only the slightest dutch roll. This was almost pure yaw oscillation.Another interesting side effect was a quite noticable nose down pitch probably from loosing airspeed. In Summary: If you did your expirement basically the same way I did (which I think you did), I believe it's comprable data despite the difference in airspeed. From my general recollections the length of oscillations doesn't change with airspeed (i.e. I've slowed down hoping the turbullence induced oscillation would get better, and while the forces go down, the oscillation persists). But to be fair I will do a run at the speed you did so we can match our results. Bruce Meacham ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)ttacs.ttu.edu> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:55 PM Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: Charles Chandler > > Bruce: I was up in my -3 today and tried the yaw dampening experiment. If > I did it correctly, my plane does four to six oscillations before settling > down (on the same heading as before I jabbed the rudder pedal.) If I jab > the right rudder pedal, of course the nose swings out to the right, turns > back through the original heading to the left (a pretty good swing), and > then makes much smaller oscillations until it settles down. > I don't know what variables should be taken into account, such as air > speed, etc., but I didn't have my knee board with me for recording anything > anyway. I did the rudder jabs about 15 times, both left and right, some > jabs light and others heavy. I was indicating about 125 to 130 knots at > 6,500 ft msl, on a warm day. (My outside air temp gauge is on the blink). > I tried to hold the stick in a neutral position through all this. > A few times I thought I detected very small oscillations up to a count of > 7 or 8, but they were so tiny I wasn't sure whether to count them. The air > was a slightly rough and was causing movement that big without any control > inputs. > Does this mean my plane dampens yaw better than other -3's (assuming I did > the test correctly)? If so it could be because of the little forward > extension of the vertical stabilizer which the builder put on it. > I hope this helps. > > Chuck > N893FS > Lubbock, TX > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Meacham <bruceme(at)seanet.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 11:44 PM > Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > > > > --> RV3-List message posted by: "Bruce Meacham" > > > > The oscilation should stop in six cycles or less. I'd very much like to > > know your results. > > > > Bruce Meacham > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Charles Chandler <ylcrc(at)ttacs.ttu.edu> > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 7:07 AM > > Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > > > > > > > --> RV3-List message posted by: Charles Chandler > > > > > > Bruce: I guess I jumped to conclusions as to what you were talking > about. > > > I'll have to try the yaw dampening test and see what happens. Yes, I've > > > been slammed all over the place in turbulence. > > > > > > Chuck > > > N893FS > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RMI question
Date: Apr 21, 2000
A buddy of mine asked an interesting question yesterday when I showed him my intended instrument panel. RMI encoder and monitor for all the airspeed, altitude, encoding and engine functions. His question was whether or not I could fly in bravo with an experimental encoder like that. I responded with the casual 'which FAA man do you think will be in my cockpit to verify what is sending that mode C?' He smiled and gave me the 'be careful who you mess with' look. His question is valid I suppose, and I can't find any info on RMI's site that suggests it would not be completely above board to use their instuments as primary with no back up (except GPS) in a VFR only situation. Any thoughts from the masses? Bill -4 wings fuselage ordered ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William M. Costello" <wmcent(at)enteract.com>
Subject: Center lines
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Hi Folks, In reading a message from newbie Robert Dickson, he made the comment that his center lines with a Sharpie weren't really very fine in his opinion. Here is something I learned from a GlaStar builder. Hey, guys, they aren't completely crazy. Most of the empennage and the wings are aluminum on a GlaStar! This fellow puts a very fat line (eighth inch or more) down the center of the flange or whatever. Then he takes his vernier caliper and sets it to half the width of the flange. He rests the bottom claw on the edge of the rib, for example, and just touches the surface with the other claw. Then, when you run the caliper the length of the piece, the other claw removes the ink in a VERY fine line perfectly down the center. This results in a fine aluminum line with the black background and is very easy to see. Take care, Bill Costello WMCent(at)enteract.com RV-6 on the 25 year plan! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Carter" <rv8abuild(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Relay for flap switch on Infinity grip
Date: Apr 21, 2000
I have added a page to my web site which diagrams the connections for a relay used in hooking up the flap switch on the Infinity grip. You may see it at: http://rv8asite.homestead.com/flapswitch.html. I have also updated and corrected the page on the Gall's Traffic Flasher to incorporate a relay to protect the switch. Jerry Carter My RV-8A Web Site: http://www.rv8asite.homestead.com/mainpage.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: RMI question
I will not comment on the administrative side of that question, however, in a prior life I worked with a contractor who monitored transponder replies. We discovered we could identify which transponder a particular aircraft was using by the millisecond delay/signal rise time profile of the encoded data from the encoder. All units (except the Terra- at that time) were all compliant with the design TSO and use of the time/frequency allotment for the RF reply of the interrogation. Within the reply window and within the timing window for the digital codes that represent altitude (in the mode-c reply) we could discern a different rise time profile and duration for different brands of transponders. With the altitude data superimposed into the mode-c reply we could NOT discern which encoder supplied the data. I tried for the fun of it. We weren't there do see what aircraft had what equip. on board... . We were collecting data in frequency saturation due to multiple airborn TCAS and multiple ground based radar secondary interrogations all pinging/interrogating the same target together.......from a engineering point of view my little study helped pass the time. No reports were written, no data collected; so don't worry....But it is worth keeping in the back of your mind billshook(at)mindspring.com on 04/21/2000 08:45:54 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RMI question A buddy of mine asked an interesting question yesterday when I showed him my intended instrument panel. RMI encoder and monitor for all the airspeed, altitude, encoding and engine functions. His question was whether or not I could fly in bravo with an experimental encoder like that. I responded with the casual 'which FAA man do you think will be in my cockpit to verify what is sending that mode C?' He smiled and gave me the 'be careful who you mess with' look. His question is valid I suppose, and I can't find any info on RMI's site that suggests it would not be completely above board to use their instuments as primary with no back up (except GPS) in a VFR only situation. Any thoughts from the masses? Bill -4 wings fuselage ordered ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)aa.net>
Subject: RV-3 Yaw dampening
A coupla really good posts on RV-3 yaw damping flights. Thanks! Actually (and I didn't know this for an embarassing number of years, either), the yaw oscillations *are* Dutch roll. Suppose you do the rudder pulse/doublet and watch the wingtip. If there's absolutely no roll effects, the wingtip will go fore and aft on the horizon. If there's a little bit of roll coupling, the wingtip will form a flattened ellipse on the horizon when you pulse the rudder. For a Cherokee, as I recall, the ellipse is about half as high as it is long, fore and aft. You get the idea. These are all Dutch roll, but with variations in the amount of roll/yaw coupling. One of the parameters of the Dutch roll describes that shape of the ellipse, or equivalently, the relative amounts of roll and yaw in the Dutch roll. Now where did I put the notes from Kolano's course? Ed Wischmeyer -- REPLY TO FUNCTION HAS A SPAM BLOCK ON IT, SO USE THIS RETURN ADDRESS: edwisch(at)aa.net NOTE: 5% of messages sent to me don't make it, so use a return receipt to insure delivery. The phone company system drops packets. - - - - - - - - Ed Wischmeyer Web page: http://members.aa.net/~edwisch Email: edwisch(at)aa.net name="edwisch.vcf" filename="edwisch.vcf" begin:vcard n:Wischmeyer;Ed tel;fax:425 898-9566 tel;home:425 898-9856 url:http://members.aa.net/~edwisch adr:;;18615 NE 53rd Street;Redmond;WA;98052; version:2.1 email;internet:edwisch(at)aa.net fn:Ed Wischmeyer end:vcard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com>
Subject: FAR Questions and Answers - Thanks to Mike Robertson
OK, this one is from Mike Robertson, aka "Das Fed". I asked him some questions and he was generous enough to spend his time digging up answers. I have reordered his reply to me with the answers to put them at the end after the questions I asked so the answers would make some sense. Here we go, and once again THANK YOU MIKE! Below, my original note is quoted with > and it is VERY LONG! And then Mike's reply is below it with no quoting character. Read on. Thom Hamilton MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. RV-8 Wings : Drill, Debur, Dimple, repeat as necessary Baton Rouge, LA 225-753-9339 -------MY MESSAGE TO MIKE WITH QUESTIONS------------ >From: "Hamilton, Thom" <Thom.Hamilton(at)usa.xerox.com> >To: "'mrobert569(at)hotmail.com'" >Subject: FAR Questions - RV and RV-List related, barely >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:34:14 -0500 > >Mike, please excuse my impertinence by asking you these questions off the >RV-List, but I am not sure that they are questions you can or will answer. >I ask you because you seem to be the most knowledgeable FAA person I have >access to. I appreciate your constant willingness to answer our many FAR >related (and technical) questions on the RV-List and wouldn't be offended >if >you cannot or do not answer these. If you can, please copy any reply to >the >RV-List, but I wanted to ask in a more private setting in case they are out >of your area. BTW, the RV-List would not be the same without "Das Fed" and >the contributions you make. And on a side note, I agree about primer near >salt water. Here in Louisiana all the Cessnas that aren't primed inside >are >a not a pretty picture. > >I have 3 FAR related questions: > >1. The latest Sport Aviation says that we can install IFR-Approach >Approved >GPS's in Exp.-Homebuilts ourselves, as long as we follow the pertinent >orders( 8110.47 and/or 8110.48) and make all the necessary logbook entries >and complete the testing the orders require. Is this really the case? I >haven't seen anyone yet say they had done it without getting an Avionics >shop involved, but that may be more the practicality of doing it yourself >and doing it right rather than the regulatory needs. > >2. Corollary to question 1: Where can one get hold of the FAA Orders? Is >there a readily available source for the non-professional? > >3. The snippet below is from a conversation going on in the >rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup which seems to indicate that at least one >FSDO is now considering planes without dual brakes as not legal for any >flight training, including flight reviews(i.e. BFRs). Do you have any >opinion on how likely this is to spread to other FSDO's? Or any thoughts >more generally on the variance in interpretations from one FSDO to another? > >-----BEGIN QUOTING NEWSGROUP------------- > >This came to me from my son and the Compuserve AVSIG. This could really >create some problems. It doesn't mention which FSDO though. ((-----Note: >FSDO identified further down the quoting, TH--------)) >Warren > >----Forwarded Message(s)---- > >#: 1719597 S15/FAA Topics [AVSIG] >13-Apr-00 19:38:03 >Sb: #1719505-FAR? >Fm: Bob Tapscott 104266,3360 >To: Rick Cremer 112020,3034 (X) > >Recently, FSDO sent out a letter accompanying an interpretation by the >Office >of Chief Counsel re 91.109 and the requirement for "dual controls" for >flight >training, which states that dual controls, as required by that regulation, >includes brakes. Quoting from the FSDO letter, " As of the date of receipt >of this letter, any flight instruction provided by your flight training >organization in aircraft that do not have fully functioning dual controls, >with available to both pilot stations, will not be creditable toward a >pilot > >rating. Any flight training conducted in such aricraft and logged by the >flight instructor providing the instruction may be subject to enforcement >action". >This interpretation has the effect of preventing owners of many Bonanzas, >Barons, Mooneys, and a host of older aircraft, from even accomplishing a >Flight Review (1 hour of flight training required) in their own aircraft, >as > >well as precluding the use their aircraft for upgrade training for >instrument, multi, commercial, CFI and other ratings. It's hard to believe >that this is (was) the intent of the "dual" control >requirement, or that the interpretors knowningly precluded so many aircraft >from being used for such training. >Could you, possibly, inform the appropriate people, of the far-reaching >effect of their interpretaion and (hopefully) sugggest some relief.? > >(In the meanwhile I"m pondering what I'm going to say to some Bonanza, >Baron, >& Mooney owners that I have trained in years past for instruments, >commercial, >CFI, etc., when I tell them that they'll have to rent a Cessna 150, or >something, so I can give them their Flight Review) Bob T > >-------- >Jerry Springer wrote: > > > >Flight review is not flight training.It is a review just as it says. >How do you reconcile that with the regulation that defines the Flight >Review: > > 61.56 Flight review. >(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight >review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of >ground training. > >----Forwarded Message(s)---- > >#: 1719836 S15/FAA Topics [AVSIG] >14-Apr-00 12:35:14 >Sb: #1719632-FAR? >Fm: Bob Tapscott 104266,3360 >To: Scott Dyer [HPN/NY] 73520,1376 (X) > > >Bob -- Which FSDO? Would you be able to post the Chief Counsel > >opinion?<<<<< >This the RIC FSDO, and the letter they enclosed was from regional counsel >AEA-7 signed by Loretta Alkalay, in which she refered to an "opinion issue >July 29, 1999, which she stated "The Chief Counsel's Office interpreted >this section's use of ""dual controls" as including the brakes. the >interpretation takes the view that the dual controls need not be identical, >observing that the rule would be satisfied where hand brakes are available >for one side even though toe pedal brakes are used on the other . We see >no reason not to apply that opinion to you inquiry." The letter then on >discuss 61.45 about its specific language with respect to dual controls, >which uses the term "engine power and flight controls" in the requirements >for pactical tests, and says "We do not view brakes as either engine power >controls or flight controls. We conclude, therefore, that dual braking >systems are not required for aridraft being used for a practical tests >under this provision" It goes on, then to discuss the practical tests for >flight instructors for which the PTS requires an aircraft to demonstrate >various operations from the secondary pilot seat, thus dual brakes would be >required for CFI practical tests. " I have enclosed a copy of the legal >interpretation regarding use of aircraft that do not have brakes available >to both flight instructor and pilot being instructed. You will note that >if an aircraft does not have full functioning dual controls, including >brakes, the aircraft shall not be used for flight instruction. However, if >an aircraft has a handbrake ......." While they make no mention of Flight >Reviews, Wings Programs, etc., after phone discussion with the FSDO on >the subject, it was obvious that the phrase in the above statement "shall >not be used for flight insstruction" applies in these cases. Bob T > >-----------END QUOTING NEWSGROUP-------------- > >Mike, again, sorry to send all this to you, but you seem like one of the >people most likely to understand and be able to render some opinions on >these questions that would correlate to the FAA position. > >Thanks for your time! > >Thom Hamilton >MCSE, CNE, PP-ASEL, etc. >RV-8 Wings: Drill, Debur, Dimple, repeat as necessary >Baton Rouge, LA 225-753-9339 -------------MIKE'S REPLY WITH ANSWERS------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Michael Robertson [mailto:mrobert569(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 3:19 PM Subject: Re: FAR Questions - RV and RV-List related, barely Thom, O.K. Let me pull up my pant legs here and wade into this as much as I can. First, let me say that I am an Airworthiness Inspector and, while I do have commercial ratings in several categories, I am not an expert in most of the operations areas. That being said, I did go to one of our old time experts and got some help. I don't know if it is going to be what you want to hear but ....oh well.... I am answering this to you directly and will let you decide if you want to post it to the list. With that in mind let me state that if I give an opinion then that is my opinion and not necessarily that of higher authorities. I try my utmost best to give factual answers with references so if I give an opinion then that means I have no reference that I can find and it is my best "swage" at it. And I have been known to have to retract my "swages". Here goes. 1. This is easy to answer. You may install anything your heart desires into your experimental aircraft you want as long as it is safe. And that includes avionics. The kicker here is that most of the avionics manufacturers are aware of the experimental market and have added some clauses to their warranties that state that if that particular piece of equipment is not installed by an"authorized dealer" then the warranty is null and void. when we are talking about a $8000.00 Garmin 430 GPS/NAV/COM that can be very intimidating. My local shop interpreted that to mean that they build the harness and I then can physically install it in my aircraft. Your shop may or may not have the same feelings. 2. Almost all federal documents are now available on the internet. Not all but they are being slowly entered so all will be in the future. The general address is http://www.fedworld.gov. That address is a umbrella cover for ALL government agencies (i.e., faa,irs,state,interior,etc.). To get more specifically to FAA orders then you want to go to http://www.faa.gov. That web site leads to everything in the faa. There is a pretty good search engine there that can help narrow down what you want. 3. This one is sticky and if I were a good bureaucratic I would duck it. What I can say is not much better as I don't know much here. We have not heard about this legal interpretation yet. So at this time it is business as normal. That does not mean that we won't get that same letter tomorrow and have to change our view but that is tomorrow. My advice here is that if you don't like what is happening then get ahold of AOPA and EAA and get them involved. As you well know they are powerful groups that can get more done than any of us as individuals. Please feel free at any time to ask questions. I definitely am not one of those people that believe knowledge kept is power. I believe that if more knowledge is spread then I have less work doing nasty things like enforcement actions. Please ask and I will impart want little I know. Mike Robertson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardner, Douglas (GA01)" <douglas.gardner(at)honeywell.com>
Subject: Comm/Gps installation -8A
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Hi Listers.. I recently purchased Honeywell/King KLX 135A for Comm/GPS and KT 76A Transponder for my -8A thru an employee purchase plan. After viewing several great builders web sites on radio installations, it appears that 3/4 .063 angle is used to attach the trays to the instrument panel riveted to the front, although the installation directions do not discuss this. My question is, does the rear of the trays need to be attached to anywhere else in the airframe ? I also need to have the harness fabricated locally ?? Thanks, Doug Gardner -8A Canopy/Panel palm Harbor Fla. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Sun-N-Fun notes
I have posted notes from Sun-N-Fun, including the RV-6/6A forum. "The RV Journal" front page is here: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal or you can go directly to the notes here: http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/S-N-F_00.html A huge Thank You to the many "RV Journal" readers who stopped by 399SB to say hello! Sam Buchanan (clip-winged, tail-dragger version of RV-9A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Ed Kolano's course was RV-3 Yaw damping
Ed W. wrote: One of the parameters of the Dutch roll describes that shape of the ellipse, or equivalently, the relative amounts of roll and yaw in the Dutch roll. Now where did I put the notes from Kolano's course? Ed Wischmeyer To all, Ed W. mentioned Ed Kolano's Flight Test course in his last sentence. You all should know Ed Kolano from his flight testing column in Sport Aviation the past several months. If you've read it you know it's really good stuff. My father and I took Ed's 2 day course a couple of months ago when he brought it out here in San Diego. (I think there will be a story on it in Kit Planes soon). Lots of good "from the cockpit" perspective stuff, done in a way that you don't need a lot of math. Plus a host of other invaluable information. If you ever get the chance to attend one of his courses, I'd highly recommend it. I believe Ed is going to have a 3 day course back in Oshkosh right around the time of the fly in. Look for information in his column Disclaimer: I don't work for Ed, but I did enjoy taking his course. Laird RV-6 22923 So Cal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE KELLEMS" <mkellems(at)tnweb.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Hi, 've been reading your comments on the yaw of the -3. I also went up on weds, evening and tried the same experiment as the both of you describe - at 140 kts both left and right inputs on the rudder resulted in about 6 osc. with no tendency to dutch at all. air was smooth as butter. btw I own 146AK and have flown it about 150 hrs. has an o290 w/ sterba prop - just adding my 2 cents (thats about what its worth. Mike Kellems ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Comm/Gps installation -8A
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Doug, I recently finished the installation of my avionics package. In order to be able to "remove" the instrument panel I just attached the rearmost sides of each radio rack to each other and then diagionally from the bottom rear to the top front. Is that confusing?? I think this is one of those case where a picture may be better but.... What I did run into with my KT76 and other radio racks was distance to the baggage compartment wall. I ended up having to slightly notch the channel on the wall in order to get the necessary clearance. You may not have that problem as I also installed a Garmin 430, a II Morrow Com, and a PS Engineering audio panel. That took up quite a bit of room. Mike Robertson RV-8A QB Engine cowling going on then paint >From: "Gardner, Douglas (GA01)" <douglas.gardner(at)honeywell.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Comm/Gps installation -8A >Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:15:03 -0700 > > > >Hi Listers.. > >I recently purchased Honeywell/King KLX 135A for Comm/GPS and KT 76A >Transponder for >my -8A thru an employee purchase plan. After viewing several great builders >web sites on >radio installations, it appears that 3/4 .063 angle is used to attach the >trays to the instrument panel >riveted to the front, although the installation directions do not discuss >this. My question is, does the >rear of the trays need to be attached to anywhere else in the airframe ? >I also need to have the harness fabricated locally ?? > >Thanks, >Doug Gardner -8A >Canopy/Panel >palm Harbor Fla. > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RMI question
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Bill, As long as it is installed in an Experimental Aircraft and is reading accurately you won't have any problem. Although if you do plan on flying into class 'B' airspace a bunch you will probably be smart to get it checked by a shop and the results entered into the aircraft logs. FAR 91.215 states that the encoding equipment must meet the requirements of the applicable TSO but nothing about the actual equipment being approved. If I remember correctly, when I talked to the folks at RMI I asked them that question and they said that was the standard they used in the designing but they didn't want to go through the entire hassle at that time to get it. Things may have changed since. Mike Robertson RV-8A QB >From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: RMI question >Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:45:54 -0400 > > >A buddy of mine asked an interesting question yesterday when I showed him >my >intended instrument panel. RMI encoder and monitor for all the airspeed, >altitude, encoding and engine functions. His question was whether or not I >could fly in bravo with an experimental encoder like that. I responded >with >the casual 'which FAA man do you think will be in my cockpit to verify what >is sending that mode C?' He smiled and gave me the 'be careful who you >mess with' look. His question is valid I suppose, and I can't find any >info >on RMI's site that suggests it would not be completely above board to use >their instuments as primary with no back up (except GPS) in a VFR only >situation. Any thoughts from the masses? > >Bill >-4 wings fuselage ordered > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcondon(at)csc.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Center lines
Use the ULTRA fine sharpies. Buy them by the pack at Staples. The fine sharpies are like paint rollers compaired to Ultra fine.... wmcent(at)enteract.com on 04/21/2000 09:45:18 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Center lines Hi Folks, In reading a message from newbie Robert Dickson, he made the comment that his center lines with a Sharpie weren't really very fine in his opinion. Here is something I learned from a GlaStar builder. Hey, guys, they aren't completely crazy. Most of the empennage and the wings are aluminum on a GlaStar! This fellow puts a very fat line (eighth inch or more) down the center of the flange or whatever. Then he takes his vernier caliper and sets it to half the width of the flange. He rests the bottom claw on the edge of the rib, for example, and just touches the surface with the other claw. Then, when you run the caliper the length of the piece, the other claw removes the ink in a VERY fine line perfectly down the center. This results in a fine aluminum line with the black background and is very easy to see. Take care, Bill Costello WMCent(at)enteract.com RV-6 on the 25 year plan! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: World's lightest alternator . . .
Response to the mini-article we did for an all electric airplane on a budget has been strong. We've decided to stock the world's lightest (3.5#) alternator as the low cost key to a practical all electric panel. see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/allelect.pdf and http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/alterntr/alterntr.html#sd8 Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( The only time you don't fail is the last ) ( time you try something, and it works. ) ( One fails forward toward success. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Interface module for EI capacitive fuel level gauge
Date: Apr 21, 2000
The instructions for the capacitive fuel sender kit suggest adding a piece of stiffener stock to the inboard tank rib to serve as a bracket for mounting the interface module that comes with the gauge. They say that the module can be held to the stiffener angle with tywraps. However, I don't know how big to make the bracket. Does anyone have a picture of this interface module on their website or can give other guidance on the size of this unit? Thanks in advance. Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) Wings mailto:cjh(at)execpc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kdh347(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: horz. stab.
Somebody asked a question the other day regarding a small space between their forward spar and the end rib. I had the same problem, and solved it by making a small shim, cut from a piece of 3/4 angle. Worked out perfect for me. The HS turned out very nice. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-3 Yaw dampening
> > >A coupla really good posts on RV-3 yaw damping flights. Thanks! > >Actually (and I didn't know this for an embarassing number of years, >either), the yaw oscillations *are* Dutch roll. > >Suppose you do the rudder pulse/doublet and watch the wingtip. If >there's absolutely no roll effects, the wingtip will go fore and aft on >the horizon. If there's a little bit of roll coupling, the wingtip will >form a flattened ellipse on the horizon when you pulse the rudder. For a >Cherokee, as I recall, the ellipse is about half as high as it is long, >fore and aft. You get the idea. These are all Dutch roll, but with >variations in the amount of roll/yaw coupling. > >One of the parameters of the Dutch roll describes that shape of the >ellipse, or equivalently, the relative amounts of roll and yaw in the >Dutch roll. Now where did I put the notes from Kolano's course? > >Ed Wischmeyer > Ed, The parameter you want is the phi to beta ratio. Phi is the bank angle, and beta is sideslip. Most aircraft have dutch rolls that has a mix of rolling and yawing movement. But some aircraft seem to have almost all yaw (Canadair Tutor is like that - I haven't flown my RV-8 yet, so I can't comment on it), and some have almost all bank angle (Mirage III is like that as the delta wing has a huge amount of roll due to yaw - I stopped counting at 12 cylces of roll during a test). There is a reasonably useful description of dutch roll at: http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/fly/how/htm/equilib.html Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing LG boxes) Ottawa, Canada http://members.xoom.com/kevinhorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fran Malczynski" <ebafm(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder to VS, rudder cable hole in fuse
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Using Frank Justice's notes I cut an oval hole 3/4" long and just a shade larger then the diameter of the nylon sleeve. Then using a large round phillps head screwdriver I bent the ends of the oval slot out on the forward end and in on the aft end of the slot. This gives a nice smooth transition from nside the fuselage to outside the fuselage without any undo bending or cutting of the nylon sleeve. I used Avery's rudder cable fairings aggressively trimmed to fair the exit holes and used pop rivets to attach. I considered using screws and nut plates but after considerable head scratching could find no way to overcome the interference of the "J" channel in that area, so opted for the pop rivets. Hope this helps. Fran Malczynski RV6 (finish kit, engine ships next week assuming credit cards transaction goes through) Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RMI question
Michael Robertson wrote: > > > Bill, > > As long as it is installed in an Experimental Aircraft and is reading > accurately you won't have any problem. Although if you do plan on flying > into class 'B' airspace a bunch you will probably be smart to get it checked > by a shop and the results entered into the aircraft logs. > > FAR 91.215 states that the encoding equipment must meet the requirements of > the applicable TSO but nothing about the actual equipment being approved. > If I remember correctly, when I talked to the folks at RMI I asked them that > question and they said that was the standard they used in the designing but > they didn't want to go through the entire hassle at that time to get it. > Things may have changed since. > > Mike Robertson > RV-8A QB > > >From: "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)mindspring.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: RMI question > >Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:45:54 -0400 > > > > > >A buddy of mine asked an interesting question yesterday when I showed him > >my > >intended instrument panel. RMI encoder and monitor for all the airspeed, > >altitude, encoding and engine functions. His question was whether or not I > >could fly in bravo with an experimental encoder like that. I responded > >with > >the casual 'which FAA man do you think will be in my cockpit to verify what > >is sending that mode C?' He smiled and gave me the 'be careful who you > >mess with' look. His question is valid I suppose, and I can't find any > >info > >on RMI's site that suggests it would not be completely above board to use > >their instuments as primary with no back up (except GPS) in a VFR only > >situation. Any thoughts from the masses? Keep in mind that the RMI uEncoder allows you to see the exact altitude being sent to the transponder. It should be very easy to catch an erroneous altitude code........and keep ATC honest. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 135 hrs) "The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Flying
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Ditto, keep the flying stories coming.......Norman > > I read every flying comment and look at them as inspiration for those > late nights in the garage! I keep thinking, "Maybe one day this Pile 'o > Parts will become a real flying machine." > QUESTION: Do we need a FLYING list, for those already flying to trade > ideas?? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Center lines
In a message dated 4/21/00 7:09:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wmcent(at)enteract.com writes: << Here is something I learned from a GlaStar builder. Hey, guys, they aren't completely crazy. Most of the empennage and the wings are aluminum on a GlaStar! This fellow puts a very fat line (eighth inch or more) down the center of the flange or whatever. Then he takes his vernier caliper and sets it to half the width of the flange. He rests the bottom claw on the edge of the rib, for example, and just touches the surface with the other claw. Then, when you run the caliper the length of the piece, the other claw removes the ink in a VERY fine line perfectly down the center. This results in a fine aluminum line with the black background and is very easy to see. >> You've also just created a stress riser in the surface of the aluminum that "could" foster a future crack down the center of the flange being that it is on the rivet line and all. IMO it is better to mark the centerline using the Ultrafine point sharpies and use the calipers for measuring. Yes, I now am convinced that those GlaStar builders ARE completely crazy. -GV (RV-6A N1GV) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat_hatch" <pat_hatch(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Capacitance senders
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Keith: I didn't see a reply to your question, so here's what I did. The instructions that come with the converters say to mount them as close the tank (BNC connector) as possible. They are very small and light, basically just a couple of wires with a small printed circuit board in shrink tubing. I just tied mine to the vent tube, for support and to follow the vent tube into the fuselage. Not a big deal. No need for a bracket. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH @ INT RV-6, Waiting on Fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Hughes <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 3:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Capacitance senders > > Has anyone that put the capacitance senders in their their tanks mounted the > converter to the inboard rib? Is there another place to mount it, or should I > make provisions now for some sort of bracket to hold it? If so, what size/shape > is this converter, and how did you mount it? > > Thanks, > > Keith Hughes > RV-6 Tanks > Parker, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MTMCGOWAN(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: RV-4 SPAR STEEL PLATES
I HAVE A PROBLEM THAT MAYBE SOMEONE ON THE LIST CAN HELP WITH. I BOUGHT MY -4 PARTIALLY BUILT AND AFTER GETTING IT HOME DISCOVERED THAT THE STEEL PLATES THAT BOLT THE WING MAIN SPARS TOGETHER ARE NOT DRILLED. THE GUY LOST THE ORIGINAL PLATES AND THE NEW ONES NEED TO BE DRILLED------------BUT HOW ? VANS SAYS TO USE A CENTERING PUNCH AND CLAMP THE PLATES THEN RUN THE PUNCH THROUGH EACH HOLE. I WILL TRY THIS IF NO ONE HAS A BETTER IDEA. MY -4 IS IN THE FINISHING STAGE. H-E-L-P P-L-E-A-S-E MIKE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The VonDane's" <vondanes(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Drilling Tubing...
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Ok, I looked through the archives, and could not find a simple answer... How easy is it to drill holes in the aileron pushrod tubes and bearings? I have a drill press, Is there an easy to make jig of some kind? Anyone with some good ideas / pictures out there? Thanks... Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO RV-8A, N912V, Wings http://vondane.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling Tubing...
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Bill Have you tried v-blocks? Ed Cole RV6A Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: The VonDane's <vondanes(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Drilling Tubing... > > Ok, I looked through the archives, and could not find a simple answer... > > How easy is it to drill holes in the aileron pushrod tubes and bearings? I > have a drill press, Is there an easy to make jig of some kind? Anyone with > some good ideas / pictures out there? > > Thanks... > > Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO > RV-8A, N912V, Wings > http://vondane.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 21, 2000
Subject: Re: Drilling Tubing...
Bill, there are several inexpensive drill press vises on the market (about $35) that have a groove in one clamping face that locates the tube horizontally. You can find the center by using a sharpened rod in the drill press chuck and lightly touching the tube surface, moving the vise back and forth. The high point will be the center. then lock the vise down with clamps, etc. Andy Johnson, -8 wings almost done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 21, 2000
From: David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 SPAR STEEL PLATES
Mike: The centering punch is the best way. I would go one step further to insure perfect alignment. Buy bronze bushings to down size the first drill you use. The hardware store will have either plastic or bronze bushings. Purchase several and drill the first hole, as the centerpunch has indicated. Mount your braces and using the bushing inside the spar and F404 spar attachment, slide the smaller centering punch through to insure alignment. If out of alignment, use the hole reamers to set things straight. Next drill the hole to the correct size but use a numered drill slightly smaller than what the reamer will fit. Then use the reamer to get the correct size. Remember that the application is for precision bolts. The fit needs to be right on. NO OBLONG HOLES. If you were real good you could just drill them using the spar as your guide. Note that each time you pass a drill through your spars, the hole actually gets a bit larger. NOT GOOD. I won't tell you why I know these things! Dave Aronson RV4 N504RV Mounting the engine sooooon MTMCGOWAN(at)aol.com wrote: > > I HAVE A PROBLEM THAT MAYBE SOMEONE ON THE LIST CAN HELP WITH. I BOUGHT MY > -4 PARTIALLY BUILT AND AFTER GETTING IT HOME DISCOVERED THAT THE STEEL PLATES > THAT BOLT THE WING MAIN SPARS TOGETHER ARE NOT DRILLED. THE GUY LOST THE > ORIGINAL PLATES AND THE NEW ONES NEED TO BE DRILLED------------BUT HOW ? > VANS SAYS TO USE A CENTERING PUNCH AND CLAMP THE PLATES THEN RUN THE PUNCH > THROUGH EACH HOLE. I WILL TRY THIS IF NO ONE HAS A BETTER IDEA. MY -4 IS > IN THE FINISHING STAGE. H-E-L-P P-L-E-A-S-E MIKE > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: Edward Hicks <EdHicks(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: SourceRV website
Listers, A message has been posted on the SourceRV website notifying subscribers that the site is being closed on July 31, 2000. Subscribers to the SOURCE RV site, have two options. Both of these involve a form that can be printed from one of the website pages. -1.Subscribers can donate their subscription fee to the Jeremy Benedict Memorial scholarship fund established at his alma mater, the University of Portland. -2.Or subscribers can request a refund of their subscription fee. Any subscription fees from subscribers who have not contacted Info Av by July 31, 2000 will be donated to the scholarship fund. Ed Hicks. RV-6 QB 60435 Bristol, UK. (going with option 1 on this) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flying
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Michael, While a seperate "Flying List" might be better for those flying - We who are building would lose the motivational and educational benefits form those of you already flying. Remember those nights when nothing would line up or the rivet gun slipped off the rivet head put a nice ding next to it. It's at those times and few others that someone's "FLYING" story comes to mind and we continue on. We builders need your Flyers stories and resulting motivation. Please stay with the "List" Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (wiring) Niantic, CT Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert L. Smith II" <rls2(at)shreve.net>
Subject: Fw: FOR SALE: RV-6A Empennage and Wing Kits
Date: Apr 22, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Smith II <rls2(at)shreve.net> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 7:47 AM Subject: RV-List: Fw: FOR SALE: RV-6A Empennage and Wing Kits > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert L. Smith II <rls2(at)shreve.net> > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 7:01 PM > Subject: FOR SALE: RV-6A Empennage and Wing Kits > > > > I'm moving soon so I've priced these kits to move fast. I'm offering both > kits for one low price of $5000. This price also includes the tools ! The > empennage kit is complete and the wing kit is 40% complete. All parts are > primed and the workmanship is excellent. A must see ! If interested give > me a e-mail or call me at (318) 949-4636.> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dumb Brake Pad Question
Are both brakes identical to each other or should there be a left and right brake? I have two identical brakes. The left brake line fastens to the top of the brake which is according to the plans. However, the right brake line would fasten to the bottom of the brake putting the blead valve to the top. I don't think this is right. Someone please tell me I'm right - or wrong : ( Dan DeNeal rv6a Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: flop tube
guys I am on my right wing tank 8A. I have been flying a yak for aerobatic training. MY question to all who have flown in rvs regardless of model type. What if any benefit do you gain from installing a flop tube without an inverted system on the engine? Flying the yak we have never been inverted more than 15 seconds are rarely enter the negative g envelope. I was considering putting a flop tube but after flying aerobatics in the yak I really dont see the need. Also as a side benefit of not installing the tube it appears that I will be able to suck more fuel from the tank increasing my endurance in the air for long trips. What do you guys say that have one? And what about you guys who don't? Glenn Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Meacham" <bruceme(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening
Date: Apr 22, 2000
It's worth a lot more than $0.02. More results are always good. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: MIKE KELLEMS <mkellems(at)tnweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:26 AM Subject: Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Yaw dampening > --> RV3-List message posted by: "MIKE KELLEMS" > > Hi, 've been reading your comments on the yaw of the -3. I also went up on > weds, evening and tried the same experiment as the both of you describe - at > 140 kts both left and right inputs on the rudder resulted in about 6 osc. > with no tendency to dutch at all. air was smooth as butter. btw I own 146AK > and have flown it about 150 hrs. has an o290 w/ sterba prop - just adding my > 2 cents (thats about what its worth. Mike Kellems > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Cole" <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Dumb Brake Pad Question
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Dan, relocate the bleed valve to the bottom. Ed Cole RV6A finish kit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 7:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Dumb Brake Pad Question > > Are both brakes identical to each other or should > there be a left and right brake? > > I have two identical brakes. The left brake line > fastens to the top of the brake which is according to > the plans. However, the right brake line would fasten > to the bottom of the brake putting the blead valve to > the top. I don't think this is right. > > Someone please tell me I'm right - or wrong : ( > > Dan DeNeal > rv6a > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KAKlewin(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: KX-125 Comm/Nav For Sale
Hey Ya'll, Looking for a radio for your project? I may have just what you need. I have a King KX-125 Silver Crown (new back face with backlighting) that is still in the box when I purchased it from an avionics shop. The KX-125 is a Comm/Nav unit with a build in VOR/LOC display. Also gives a digital readout of radials to and from the VORs. It also can be tied to almost any VOR display. It also has capability to display LOC freqs so you can use it for ILS approaches as long as your display head has a glideslope capability. It is yellow tagged and in excellent condition in the origional box as received from the avionics dealer. In addition it comes with tray, install kit, and manual. A possible change in panel design forces sale. I paid $1750 for the unit....so Im willing to let it go for anything close to my origional investment. Happy Building. Regards, Kurt, OKC, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Flying
>While a seperate "Flying List" might be better for those flying - We who are >building would lose the motivational and educational benefits form those of >you already flying..... Votes: 10-0 for a "flying" RV list. Good!! What I really wanted to know was if builders were considering it a waste of their building bandwidth to put up with the flying hints/stories. The replys state a rebounding NO!! Those of us lucky enough to be flying will try to be more of an inspiration for you buckers. The completion rate for RV's is one of the highest. You WILL fly one of these days, and have your own flying stories to post. And you are going to LOVE your airplane. Michael and Suzie Q RV-4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)ispchannel.com>
Subject: Re: Dumb Brake Pad Question
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> I have two identical brakes. The left brake line > fastens to the top of the brake which is according to > the plans. However, the right brake line would fasten > to the bottom of the brake putting the blead valve to > the top. I don't think this is right. The brakes were identical on the -8 also. You just have to move the bleed valve to the bottom where it belongs > Someone please tell me I'm right - or wrong > > Dan DeNeal > rv6a Sounds like you're more left than right, and more right than wrong :-) (sorry- it's the fiberglass) Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-587, N174KT (glassing windscreen and finishing engine stuff- moving to hanger soon) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Dumb Brake Pad Question
Date: Apr 22, 2000
The tapped holes are identical. Swap fittings so the bleeder valve is on the bottom and the hose comes out the top. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 9:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Dumb Brake Pad Question > > Are both brakes identical to each other or should > there be a left and right brake? > > I have two identical brakes. The left brake line > fastens to the top of the brake which is according to > the plans. However, the right brake line would fasten > to the bottom of the brake putting the blead valve to > the top. I don't think this is right. > > Someone please tell me I'm right - or wrong > > Dan DeNeal > rv6a > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: flop tube
From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
My decisions were influenced by Dean Hall. At the time of my decision making he was flying both an RV 4 and a Skybolt. He said he did "aero" in the bolt and just sport aerobatics and cross country in the 4. BTW he has since then sold the Bolt. I ordered a flop tube and sent it back . Looked like something which added un needed complexity. I stuck with the carb, and no inverted oil system. The RV has just enough energy to do all pos G manuevers with ease. I do rolls, loops cloverleafs, lousy eights, and whifferdills on most of my solo flights. A great airplane for this type self entertainment, but a poor competition aerobatic plane. If I wanted to do snaps, spins and neg G, I would go for a pitts or some other aerobat single purpose plane. I don't count rolls but I am sure I do more than I do landings. I have counted landings, (over 900) so I can estimate a thousand barrel rolls and two thousand aileron rolls with never a sputter or oil press wobble. Since I knew I would be doing a lot of sport aero, I stayed minimal on instruments, but had to have a horizon and DG along with my turn and bank. A pleasant surprise Gyros still work good at 600 + hours. Just my opinion. -- Denis L.(Bum) Walsh > From: glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:37:14 -0700 (PDT) > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: flop tube > > > guys I am on my right wing tank 8A. I have been flying > a yak for aerobatic training. MY question to all who > have flown in rvs regardless of model type. What if > any benefit do you gain from installing a flop tube > without an inverted system on the engine? Flying the > yak we have never been inverted more than 15 seconds > are rarely enter the negative g envelope. I was > considering putting a flop tube but after flying > aerobatics in the yak I really dont see the need. Also > as a side benefit of not installing the tube it > appears that I will be able to suck more fuel from the > tank increasing my endurance in the air for long > trips. What do you guys say that have one? And what > about you guys who don't? > > Glenn > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Dumb Brake Pad Question
From: Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net>
I don't remember the details, but you are right the bleeder goes on the bottom, and pressure line on top. Maybe the bleeder and press fitting are interchangeable??? -- Denis L.(Bum) Walsh > From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:34:44 -0700 (PDT) > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dumb Brake Pad Question > > > Are both brakes identical to each other or should > there be a left and right brake? > > I have two identical brakes. The left brake line > fastens to the top of the brake which is according to > the plans. However, the right brake line would fasten > to the bottom of the brake putting the blead valve to > the top. I don't think this is right. > > Someone please tell me I'm right - or wrong : ( > > Dan DeNeal > rv6a > > > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 2000
Subject: RV-4 SPAR STEEL PLATES
From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
Mike: I would hunt a tool & die maker that knows his business. I think Vans is talking about a transfer punch. That would likely work if your step drill up each time to keep the holes round & then ream. Now if one plate is right, I think you need a drill bushing to drill the other mother to the same. I am guessing the BH & spar caps are drilled. I would locate the center on the splice plates with a line, then mark the center line of teh splice plate holes. YOU could then clamp for the outbooard holes & use a countersink to drill the holes. then I think you could step drill & ream one side. Now build special drill bushing to locate the other side & step drill & ream it. Good Luck Don Jordan -- 6a finish -- Arlington, Tx -- dons6a(at)juno.com ********************************************** > THE GUY LOST THE ORIGINAL PLATES AND THE NEW ONES NEED TO BE DRILLED H-E-L-P P-L-E-A-S-E MIKE > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Center lines
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> You've also just created a stress riser in the surface of the aluminum that > "could" foster a future crack down the center of the flange being that it is > on the rivet line and all. IMO it is better to mark the centerline using the > Ultrafine point sharpies and use the calipers for measuring. Yes, I now am > convinced that those GlaStar builders ARE completely crazy. Well, he could have been using a plastic caliper... Remember, we're talking about a GLAStar builder here.... :-) :-) :-) Randall Henderson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling Tubing...
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> How easy is it to drill holes in the aileron pushrod tubes and bearings? I > have a drill press, Is there an easy to make jig of some kind? Anyone with > some good ideas / pictures out there? Some suggestions have already been thrown out -- yes a V block or V-jig would be nice but the answer to your original question is that if you center-punch it then its not diffuclt if you just do it with a hand drill and hold the part with the other hand. Okay, call me a cave-man, but it worked for me. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: George True <true(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Flop Tube
I, too, have wondered about the absolute necessity of putting in the flop tube if one intends to do mild acro only, no sustained inverted flight and little or no negative G's. My concern is this: I am intending to have fuel injection, probably the Airflow Performance system. I have heard that while a carbureted engine won't cut out as you go over the top of a loop because it has a small "reservoir" of fuel in the float bowl, a fuel-injected engine has no such reserve. Does this mean that the fuel-injected engine WILL cut out under such circumstances, or is simply more likely to? And if it does cut out, will it catch again within a few seconds as long as you don't stay inverted? Also, would the "cut-out" be delayed? I am thinking that as you go over the top of that loop with no flop tube, the fuel pickup is sucking air for a few seconds. How long would it take that air bubble in the line to reach the injectors? Just a few seconds, or longer? It would be disconcerting to have completed the loop, be flying straight and level, and THEN have the engine cut out. I would prefer not to put in the flop tube if I really don't have to. But if it's mandatory for doing any acro with a fuel-injected engine, I'll install it. George True ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Flying
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> OR: would Matt even consider such a thing. I suppose he would suddenly have > requests from the other type lists to have their own FLYING list. Or not. > > Whaddaya think............. Seems to be unanimous to keep it integrated, most posts so far have mentioned motivation and enjoyment. I agree with both of those reasons but would like to offer a third and a fourth... Third reason - issues raised during flying are often related to building issues, and if us builder's are aware of them we can make a change now to prevent a problem when actually flying. Examples would be rigging issues etc. Fourth reason - I like to contemplate each aspect of my project WAY in advance. Hearing about all the flying issues now helps me ponder them for a year or so before I fly. This can only be good for embedding things in your mind. Michael, your writings of the exploits of you and Suzy Q in the sky truly are great. They capture so wonderfully the joy we all know of flying, and hope to know in our RVs. Thanks for taking the time to do this and, more importantly, keep up the good work! FWIW, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, not flying yet ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Drilling Tubing...
In a message dated 4/22/00 12:30:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randallh(at)home.com writes: << > How easy is it to drill holes in the aileron pushrod tubes and bearings? I > have a drill press, Is there an easy to make jig of some kind? Anyone with > some good ideas / pictures out there? Some suggestions have already been thrown out -- yes a V block or V-jig would be nice but the answer to your original question is that if you center-punch it then its not diffuclt if you just do it with a hand drill and hold the part with the other hand. Okay, call me a cave-man, but it worked for me. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~75 hrs) Portland, OR >> As Randall said, center punching it and then hand drilling is fine. As a safety note, don't hand hold the tube you're center punching with an automatic center punch. If (when?) the punch slips off of the tube, the next thing that gets punched is your hand... It hurts even worse if the punch goes into the web between your thumb and forefinger. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Flying
In a message dated 4/22/00 5:36:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, crowbotham(at)hotmail.com writes: << We builders need your Flyers stories and resulting motivation. Please stay with the "List" >> Amen! Harry Crosby -6, flying someday ________________________________________________________________________________
From: P91168(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 04/20/00
Has anyone done business with AeroSport Power in Canada ?? I'm looking for a 0-320 for my RV4 project and I am soliciting a reference from anyone about AeroSport Power in B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randyl(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 04/20/00
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> Has anyone done business with AeroSport Power in Canada ?? > I'm looking for a 0-320 for my RV4 project and I am soliciting a reference > from anyone about AeroSport Power in B.C. YES! Bart Lalonde is the man behind this operation and he has built engines for a significant portion of the RV population. Check the archives on this, you find a wealth of positive information. In fact the new Van's RV-9A will have an Aero Sport Power O-320 in it. Oh, he also built my engine. Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500, baffling/plenum www.pacifier.com/~randyl Home Wing VAF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: RV-6 Stick Movement
Listers, I have installed the NAVAID servo under the passenger seat. How far, left to right, does the stick move on the -6? Measured at the opening in the seat skin. Cash Copeland RV-6QB 60075 Oakland Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcbraem(at)home.com.with.ESMTP (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116)
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: flop tube
Denis Walsh wrote: > > > My decisions were influenced by Dean Hall. At the time of my decision > making he was flying both an RV 4 and a Skybolt. He said he did "aero" in > the bolt and just sport aerobatics and cross country in the 4. BTW he has > since then sold the Bolt. > > I ordered a flop tube and sent it back . Looked like something which added > un needed complexity. I stuck with the carb, and no inverted oil system. > The RV has just enough energy to do all pos G manuevers with ease. I do > rolls, loops cloverleafs, lousy eights, and whifferdills on most of my solo > flights. A great airplane for this type self entertainment, but a poor > competition aerobatic plane. If I wanted to do snaps, spins and neg G, I > would go for a pitts or some other aerobat single purpose plane. > > I don't count rolls but I am sure I do more than I do landings. I have > counted landings, (over 900) so I can estimate a thousand barrel rolls > and two thousand aileron rolls with never a sputter or oil press wobble. > > Since I knew I would be doing a lot of sport aero, I stayed minimal on > instruments, but had to have a horizon and DG along with my turn and bank. > > A pleasant surprise Gyros still work good at 600 + hours. > > Just my opinion. > -- > Denis L.(Bum) Walsh > > > > > guys I am on my right wing tank 8A. I have been flying > > a yak for aerobatic training. MY question to all who > > have flown in rvs regardless of model type. What if > > any benefit do you gain from installing a flop tube > > without an inverted system on the engine? Flying the > > yak we have never been inverted more than 15 seconds > > are rarely enter the negative g envelope. I was > > considering putting a flop tube but after flying > > aerobatics in the yak I really dont see the need. Also > > as a side benefit of not installing the tube it > > appears that I will be able to suck more fuel from the > > tank increasing my endurance in the air for long > > trips. What do you guys say that have one? And what > > about you guys who don't? > > > > Glenn > > First of all, Denis, congrats on those gyros--the flying gods are smiling on you. There's an excellent set of articles in "18 Years of RVator" by Ralph Ridell. He and his son, Scott, flew an RV4, stripped down, in competition aero with a Christen oil system, no flop tube, and an Ellison throttle body injector. And, they even won fairly often against dedicated aero machines. He commented that he thought the judges awarded him extra points when they heard his fuel starved engine sputter during certain maneuvers. The bottom line is that there are certain maneuvers that require inverted gas/oil. If you avoid those maneuvers you don't need the inverted systems. I guess I'm not a "representative" RV pilot because I like to fly inverted. It started in the Navy and was reinforced by the flight sim game "Hellcats Over the Pacific" when I started to fly the missions inverted after getting bored with the limited mission opportunities. One of my last hurdles to overcome is what to do with the stock brake fluid reservoir, in that it doesn't have a check valve and when inverted, leaks the stuff that makes your brakes work. Didn't think far enough ahead on that one. Boyd RV S6 Venice, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net>
Subject: Flap flange cut?
Hi all, I'm now attempting the flap to wing fitup. Seems to sit a little "high" on the inboard most end, when in the "neutral" position. Looks like the forward most flange (the springy front piece of metal that butts up onto the top wing-skin),, is hitting the hi-step of the rear wing spar. I had to cut-out the flap brace here to accomodate the hi-step. Detail "D" in plans looks like Van wants me to cut a slice in the flap flange also? And then re-bend the short end of springy flange? Is this how it's supposed to be done? Or should one just squash the inboard springy end down REALLY, REALLY, hard? (I suppose the flaps will then extend with a loud "boy-yoinggg!" sound when activated aye?) Thanks for any advice, RJ in CT. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Question Regarding Prop Guard...
Hi Listers, Found the following ad in the latest issue of the Pacific Flyer. Seems like it might be a nice idea for that $5k CS prop. Has anyone had any experiences with this system, good or bad? How does it affect the balance? What if one flys off? http://matronics.com/MattsRV4/PropGuard.jpg Best regards, Matt Dralle RV-4 #1763, N442RV to be... -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Flop Tube
George True wrote: > > > I, too, have wondered about the absolute necessity of putting in the > flop tube if one intends to do mild acro only, no sustained inverted > flight and little or no negative G's. > > My concern is this: I am intending to have fuel injection, probably the > Airflow Performance system. I have heard that while a carbureted engine > won't cut out as you go over the top of a loop because it has a small > "reservoir" of fuel in the float bowl, a fuel-injected engine has no > such reserve. Does this mean that the fuel-injected engine WILL cut out > under such circumstances, or is simply more likely to? And if it does > cut out, will it catch again within a few seconds as long as you don't > stay inverted? > > Also, would the "cut-out" be delayed? I am thinking that as you go over > the top of that loop with no flop tube, the fuel pickup is sucking air > for a few seconds. How long would it take that air bubble in the line > to reach the injectors? Just a few seconds, or longer? It would be > disconcerting to have completed the loop, be flying straight and level, > and THEN have the engine cut out. > > I would prefer not to put in the flop tube if I really don't have to. > But if it's mandatory for doing any acro with a fuel-injected engine, > I'll install it. > > George True > Remember going over the top and keeping positive Gs the fuel stays right in the bottom of the tanks so no sucking air. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. Farrar" <jfarrar1(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Flop Tube
Date: Apr 22, 2000
George, Remember when we did loops in the Lakes? There is a little bit of positive G over the top.....maybe I/2? Anyway enough that the fuel would stay at the bottom of the tank and no air should enter. I'm not installing a flop tube and am installing Airflow Performance. I can't say for sure yet but I don't expect a problem. However I will be extremely careful opening the acro envelope. First loops, hammers etc will be way up there. Jeff Farrar, RV8A N4ZJ reserved, Chandler, AZ jfarrar1(at)home.com Wings done, fuselage almost, fuselage interior and wiring, building RMI units. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: George True <true(at)uswest.net> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 9:44 AM Subject: RV-List: Flop Tube > > I, too, have wondered about the absolute necessity of putting in the > flop tube if one intends to do mild acro only, no sustained inverted > flight and little or no negative G's. > > My concern is this: I am intending to have fuel injection, probably the > Airflow Performance system. I have heard that while a carbureted engine > won't cut out as you go over the top of a loop because it has a small > "reservoir" of fuel in the float bowl, a fuel-injected engine has no > such reserve. Does this mean that the fuel-injected engine WILL cut out > under such circumstances, or is simply more likely to? And if it does > cut out, will it catch again within a few seconds as long as you don't > stay inverted? > > Also, would the "cut-out" be delayed? I am thinking that as you go over > the top of that loop with no flop tube, the fuel pickup is sucking air > for a few seconds. How long would it take that air bubble in the line > to reach the injectors? Just a few seconds, or longer? It would be > disconcerting to have completed the loop, be flying straight and level, > and THEN have the engine cut out. > > I would prefer not to put in the flop tube if I really don't have to. > But if it's mandatory for doing any acro with a fuel-injected engine, > I'll install it. > > George True > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RV-4 SPAR STEEL PLATES
>Mike: > >I would hunt a tool & die maker that knows his business. > I agree. -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Question Regarding Prop Guard...
In a message dated 4/22/00 2:42:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dralle(at)matronics.com writes: << Found the following ad in the latest issue of the Pacific Flyer. Seems like it might be a nice idea for that $5k CS prop. Has anyone had any experiences with this system, good or bad? How does it affect the balance? What if one flys off? >> Matt, I had some stuff like that called prop tape on my 210 hp Swift. It eliminated the abrasion on the prop leading edge, didn`t fly off and didn`t seem to hurt the performance. You`re building a -4, the prop is quite some distance above the runway, You shouldn`t need it unless you fly off unpaved runways a lot. . Fred LaForge RV-4 130 hrs and flying great. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 22, 2000
From: Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Sun-N-Fun notes
Hi Sam, and THANKS for the Sun-N-Fun experience write-up. I wish I coulda been there, but your little story made me virtually there. *smile* In your write-up, you mentioned that you used your Titanium Ti-downs in the Florida sand. I haven't had any feedback yet from people using them in sandy soil. Did you think the holding resistance was adequate for your RV while parked there? I've flown my Carrera Ultralight to the coast to test the holding power in beach sand, and it was way inadequate ("honest officer, I'm doing REASEARCH here and HAD to land on the beach" *grin*). I then made a custom 7 coil (22" long), large diameter coil (2" OD), and flew back to the beach (I know, work work work *smile*), and tried it again...I still could pull it outta the sand. *bleah* I sure would be better than nothing, tho... I'm guessing the holding power of my Titanium Ti-downs in sandy soil depends on how much sod there is to help hold the sand together. Randy Simpson Airtime Mfg. http://www.airtimemfg.com p.s. every time you mention the Ti-downs on this list, I get a bunch of new orders...Thanks Sam! pp.s. I'm sold out of the Ti-downs now, and won't be able to make any more till after my Ultralight group flight to the Grand Canyon (three Ultralights going). Wheels off May 10th, camping along the way, and returning home the end of May.... ---------- > >I have posted notes from Sun-N-Fun, including the RV-6/6A forum. "The RV >Journal" front page is here: > >http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal > >or you can go directly to the notes here: > >http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/S-N-F_00.html > >A huge Thank You to the many "RV Journal" readers who stopped by 399SB >to say hello! > > >Sam Buchanan (clip-winged, tail-dragger version of RV-9A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Registration Problems
I keep geeting my application for registration returned by the FAA because there is no Bill Of Sale. I sent in the receipts for the Kit and explained its a homebuilt, but they insist on a bill of sale as if I bought a registered or completed aircraft. Is anyone else having this problem? Also thanks for the replies on night legal lighting systems. Dave Beizer RV6A Final Assembly ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSEckstein(at)cs.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Registration Problems
Call Van's and ask them for a bill of sale. They will send you the form that the FAA needs. Brian Eckstein 6A Finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: replacing Van's wing t ips with Rocket wing tips
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Someone suggested to me that the Rocket wing tips would be better than Van's wing tips for a few reasons IF they would fit. They thought that 1) the wing tips are already modified for night and taxi lights, 2) they were lighter as they were made differently and better and 3) they have a "cooler" shape. Anyone know of an RV 6 sporting such wing tips? If so, could you give me the name of the builder? thanks, lucky Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOMPOWERSRV6(at)cs.com
Date: Apr 22, 2000
Subject: Re: Registration Problems
DAVE, YOU NEED TO FILL OUT FORM 8050-2 (AIRCRAFT BILL OF SALE) YOU CAN GET IT AT ANY FSDO. TOM POWERS RV6 INSTALLING WINGS N5UA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Registration Problems
Date: Apr 22, 2000
I think Van's will send your a bill of sale! just phone and ask. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) ----- Original Message ----- From: <PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 7:02 PM Subject: RV-List: Registration Problems > > I keep geeting my application for registration returned by the FAA > because there is no Bill Of Sale. I sent in the receipts for the Kit and > explained its a homebuilt, but they insist on a bill of sale as if I bought a > registered or completed aircraft. Is anyone else having this problem? Also > thanks for the replies on night legal lighting systems. > > Dave Beizer > RV6A Final Assembly > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Flop Tube
Date: Apr 22, 2000
> > >My concern is this: I am intending to have fuel injection, probably the >Airflow Performance system. I have heard that while a carbureted engine >won't cut out as you go over the top of a loop because it has a small >"reservoir" of fuel in the float bowl, a fuel-injected engine has no >such reserve. Does this mean that the fuel-injected engine WILL cut out >under such circumstances, or is simply more likely to? And if it does >cut out, will it catch again within a few seconds as long as you don't >stay inverted? > >Also, would the "cut-out" be delayed? I am thinking that as you go over >the top of that loop with no flop tube, the fuel pickup is sucking air >for a few seconds. How long would it take that air bubble in the line >to reach the injectors? Just a few seconds, or longer? It would be >disconcerting to have completed the loop, be flying straight and level, >and THEN have the engine cut out. > As far as loops and such no negative g is necessary and in fact I believe my


April 14, 2000 - April 22, 2000

RV-Archive.digest.vol-ii