RV-Archive.digest.vol-kn
April 06, 2001 - April 13, 2001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
BUILDING AN RV-8 ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL:
The Discovery Channel will be broadcasting EAA-TV's new 13-episode series,
From
the Ground Up on Sunday evenings starting in April. Viewers will see EAA's
expert builder Joe Schumacher construct a Van's RV-8 using the quick-build
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/010330_eaatv.html
reposted from kolb list
Steven DiNieri
Niagara Falls, New York
RV-6A, P28A-160
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New England DAR Recommendations? |
Dean, did I give you the name of the DAR in Manchester? If not I will find
his card and send it to you. Also just heard that there is another one
coming on line very soon as soon as she retires from the FAA. Will be based
out of Portland. I could also get you that name.
Ray
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/06/2001 09:31:02 AM
Starting the first night of SNF???? The EAA never ceases to amaze me, I can
only hope that the exiting conclusion and test flight of the airplane is
the first night of OSH. Gimme a break!
"Steven DiNieri" (at)matronics.com on 04/06/2001
08:49:31 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: FlatLite Kit
BUILDING AN RV-8 ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL:
The Discovery Channel will be broadcasting EAA-TV's new 13-episode series,
From
the Ground Up on Sunday evenings starting in April. Viewers will see EAA's
expert builder Joe Schumacher construct a Van's RV-8 using the quick-build
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/010330_eaatv.html
reposted from kolb list
Steven DiNieri
Niagara Falls, New York
RV-6A, P28A-160
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> BUILDING AN RV-8 ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL:
> The Discovery Channel will be broadcasting EAA-TV's new 13-episode series,
> From
> the Ground Up on Sunday evenings starting in April. Viewers will see EAA's
> expert builder Joe Schumacher construct a Van's RV-8 using the quick-build
>
> http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/010330_eaatv.html
>
> reposted from kolb list
> Steven DiNieri
> Niagara Falls, New York
> RV-6A, P28A-160
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Stribling" <bbattery(at)bendcable.com> |
>
>
> Is this stuff high-density? How does it stand up to your heels while you
> are getting in the plane?
>
> (Dang, this is like my 70th e-mail to the list today, I'm a real exemplary
> employee. Ready to go to the big show)
>
For Insulation try www.customacousticspecialties.com and inquire about sound
proof rubber mat and foam for aircraft.
for e-mail address is soundproof(at)engineer.com
K. Stribling Wiring and dash work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Neil,
Go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Fuel%20System%20Photos%20%26%20Drawings/
to view photos of Jon Ross' RV-8 wing root gascolator installation
Charlie Kuss
"n.france" wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a builders website or similar where I could see pictures
> of a gascolator mounted in the wing root ?
> It looks quite tight for space in there, so I would like to see how others
> have managed it.
> Could anyone who has done it , tell me if they used standard Van's supplied
> 3/8 pipe and fittings, or is there an alternative source which lends itself
> to tight bends in short distances, which it looks like it may need.
> Thanks in advance.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New England DAR Recommendations? |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
17, 2001) at 04/06/2001 10:18:39 AM
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | GRENIER(at)AOL.COM |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 04/06/01 09:14 AM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To: Grenier(at)AOL.com
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: Re: RV-List: New England DAR Recommendations?
|
Hi Ray,
I don't have the name of a DAR in Manchester. I have a David Crook in
Colebrook and a Cornelius Davison in Grafton. These names are from an FAA
list of DARs. If you have a Manchester DAR, I would like to get contact
info from you.
Thanks,
Dean
Dean, did I give you the name of the DAR in Manchester? If not I will find
his card and send it to you. Also just heard that there is another one
coming on line very soon as soon as she retires from the FAA. Will be
based
out of Portland. I could also get you that name.
Ray
RV-4
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and can't
find it. I have called Direct TV and the Discovery Channel, and nobody
seems to know anything...
Thanks...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: EAA TV
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dplute <dplute(at)onemain.com> |
Does anyone out there know if the Westech cht probe # 713-5w or the egt
probe #713-2dwk will work with Vans gauges? Aircraft Spruce has not
answered my inquiry.
thanks
Doyal R. Plute rv-6a n# 4dp builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Parsons" <DAP(at)DParsons.com> |
I read the part about "the Discovery Wings Channel" and first thought "No
such thing. It's a mistake." Fortunately I researched it before I responded.
In fact, there is a separate "Discovery Wings Channel". If you want to get
the channel, you should contact your service provider (cable, satellite,
etc). The more people that request it, the more likely they will add it. I
am calling DirecTV this morning. However, I do believe most of us are going
to all miss at least the first episode. ;-)
Anyone know of a provider that carries DWC?
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: EAA TV
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> BUILDING AN RV-8 ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL:
> The Discovery Channel will be broadcasting EAA-TV's new 13-episode series,
> From
> the Ground Up on Sunday evenings starting in April. Viewers will see EAA's
> expert builder Joe Schumacher construct a Van's RV-8 using the quick-build
>
> http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/010330_eaatv.html
>
> reposted from kolb list
> Steven DiNieri
> Niagara Falls, New York
> RV-6A, P28A-160
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | cool jugs for lycoming engines |
Listers: I sent out a request last night requesting if
any of you, have any information regarding the liquid
air power system called cool jugs. At this time I have
not recieved any responses. Am I to believe non of you
have this setup? I am considering purchasing this
setup for my 8A as it looks like it brings the heat
way down inside the cylinder heads and during the
Texas summer's here it looks like a viable option to
keep the climb rate up and maintain peak cylinder
pressure without detonation. So once again if any of
you have any comments good or bad please let them fly.
As an A&P I am highly suspect of a product that claims
nothing but advantages on their web site the only
disadvantage I see at this time is a weight penalty of
about 10 pounds. Please respond
thanks in advance
Glenn Williams
archive this one as there are not hits in the archive
that I could find.
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Aero-Carb |
Bill
I don't have any real knowledge of this product. I did however, go to their
web site and viewed the installation photos. The engine breather system design
on that Sonex is downright SCAREY!! The site states that that is a Sonex
"prototype". I wonder who's prototype? Sonex's? Aero-Carb's?
Charlie Kuss
>
> Sorry...
>
> http://www.aeroconversions.com/
>
> Hey all...
>
> Does anybody out there know anything about this carb, or this type of carb?
>
> Thanks...
>
> Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO
> RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage
> http://vondane.com/rv8a/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy Vosberg <Roy.Vosberg(at)veritas.com> |
I went to www.discoverychannel.com and did a search on wings, EAA, and "From
the Ground Up" and I came up with NOTHING. Anybody else have better luck
with researching this? I am assuming that Discovery Wings is affiliated
with Discovery Channel, maybe that is incorrect?
Roy
idle 6 builder
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and can't
find it. I have called Direct TV and the Discovery Channel, and nobody
seems to know anything...
Thanks...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: EAA TV
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bead Blasting |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Remove the a ricve++++++++
=======================
writes:
>
>
> Bead blasting may or may not take of powder coating depending on hte
> powder,
> but sand blasting definitely will. Bead blasting is a form of media
>
> blasting. More specifically, the media refers to the type of
> material you
> are using for the blasting process. There is glass beads, walnut
> shell,
> aluminum oxide, and sand to name a few. For aluminum and light
> steel you
> pretty much want to stick with glass beads or walnut shells IMHO.
>
> Mike Robertson
>
>
> >From: Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: Bead Blasting
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:18:23 -0400 04/05/2001 03:19:12 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >Any opinions on whether bead blasting will take PC off? Seems like
> it aught
> >to. While I'm on the subject. Whats the difference (if there is
> one)
> >between bead blasting and media blasting. Inquiring redneck minds
> want to
> >know.
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rear glass strips 6A |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I did it again. The holes in my rear glass strips don't fit the glass.
What happen was I drilled them without the glass.
As the thickness of the glass gets bigger, the holes get smaller. Just
wantedd to tell the next guy, so they won't do it.
Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx
*****************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thanks:
I hate F/G so much I didn't think of that. That would give me a radius in
the under area, also.
Don Jordan RV6A Arlington, Tx
*****************************************
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:10:41 "Rick Caldwell"
writes:
>
>
>
> Sorry, Don, I forgot to mention about that in my earlier reply. I
> made the
> bottom part integral with the top; a one piece fairing. Got the idea
> from
> Jim Cone & his newsletter he used to write. You can either use Al.
> for the
> bottom or break out the resin & cloth again and make a one piece.
> Its easy
> to do with some clay under there for the form. Looks better to me
> than the
> Al. parts.
>
> Rick Caldwell
>
> >From: Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: insulation
> >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:08:58 -0500
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and can't
find it. I have called Direct TV and the Discovery Channel, and nobody
seems to know anything...
I've just switched last week to dish network after a conversation with
programming personnel at direct TV. I was basically told there is currently
no plans to add discovery wings, and if they did it would be a secret until
officially announced. So go figure (I'm still scratching my head..) I love
the channel, they even have aviation weather on the hour with prog charts,
sigmets icing levels etc.. No flight planning detail, but great overview.
It sure beats Speedvisions feeble attempt to appeal to GA enthusiasts.
Steve DiNieri
capsteve(at)adelphia.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Parsons" <DAP(at)DParsons.com> |
,
, ,
"EAA_Web"
| Subject: | From the Ground Up |
I have done some more research, and have more details for schedules for
"From the Ground Up" with DishTV. Too bad this time I have DirecTV. For
those that have DishTV, you have more than just the one time slot previously
indicated for each episode. I have included what I found below:
>From the Ground Up -
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/010330_eaatv.html
DishTV Online Guide: http://www.dishtv.com/
Select: Programming
Online Guide
America's Top 150 and your time zone
Set to Sun April 8, 7:00PM, All Categories,
DWNGS
DishTV Schedule for Discovery Wings Channel [DWNGS - 195] for "From the
Ground Up"
NOTE: All times below are listed in Central Time
Episode 1 (April 8): Schumacher gives some tips on getting started, while
co-host Mark Annick poses a number of questions every first-time homebuilder
would ask. Schumacher and Annick also visit a homebuilder working in his
garage to give viewers a feel for space and time constraints as well as an
idea of the tools needed and costs involved.
April 8: 7:00PM, 10:00PM
April 9: 3:00AM, 6:00AM, 11:00AM, 2:00PM
Episode 2 (April 15): Assembly of the tail section. Vans Aircraft founder
and designer Dick VanGrunsven gives handy advice to the project team.
Schumacher and Annick also demonstrate basic riveting techniques used
throughout the project and install the rudder, elevator and stabilizers of
the tail section.
April 15: 7:00PM
April 16: 3:00AM, 11:00AM
Episode 3 (April 22): Schumacher and Annick take on wing assembly. Annick
also explains Bernoullis "Principle of Flight," viewers learn "bucking," a
unique way to rivet the wing skin together and the wings control surfaces
are attached.
April 22: No Times Listed Yet on DishTV Online Guide
April 23: No Times Listed Yet on DishTV Online Guide
Episode 4 (April 29): Schumacher and Annick level and attach the wings to
the fuselage, and viewers really see the kit-built airplane begin to take
shape. Customizing options available to the homebuilder are explored. This
episode also includes a look into the restoration side of homebuilding with
a feature on how a vintage airplane comes back to life while still retaining
its historical past.
April 29: No Times Listed Yet on DishTV Online Guide
April 30: No Times Listed Yet on DishTV Online Guide
-------
Don Parsons
EAA Chapters 12 & 774
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cool jugs for lycoming engines |
In a message dated 4/6/2001 10:26:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
willig10(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Listers: I sent out a request last night requesting if
> any of you, have any information regarding the liquid
> air power system called cool jugs. At this time I have
> not recieved any responses. Am I to believe non of you
> have this setup? I am considering purchasing this
> setup for my 8A as it looks like it brings the heat
> way down inside the cylinder heads and during the
> Texas summer's here it looks like a viable option to
> keep the climb rate up and maintain peak cylinder
> pressure without detonation. So once again if any of
> you have any comments good or bad please let them fly.
> As an A&P I am highly suspect of a product that claims
> nothing but advantages on their web site the only
> disadvantage I see at this time is a weight penalty of
> about 10 pounds. Please respond
Looks good to me for my f1 rocket, but the cost is to much, maybe if i will
the lottery.
chris wilcox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: cool jugs for lycoming engines |
>
>Listers: I sent out a request last night requesting if
>any of you, have any information regarding the liquid
>air power system called cool jugs. At this time I have
>not recieved any responses. Am I to believe non of you
>have this setup? I am considering purchasing this
>setup for my 8A as it looks like it brings the heat
>way down inside the cylinder heads and during the
>Texas summer's here it looks like a viable option to
>keep the climb rate up and maintain peak cylinder
>pressure without detonation. So once again if any of
>you have any comments good or bad please let them fly.
>As an A&P I am highly suspect of a product that claims
>nothing but advantages on their web site the only
>disadvantage I see at this time is a weight penalty of
>about 10 pounds. Please respond
>
>thanks in advance
>
>Glenn Williams
Glenn,
This thing just hit the market, so I would be amazed if there are any being
installed on RVs yet. You might have to wait a year or more to find one
flying in an RV, and you probably need a few more years service experience
before you can draw any conclusions.
Do you know how big a radiator it needs? Where would you put the rad? How
would you get air to the rad? What kind of testing have they done to
demonstrate operation after all the coolant leaks out?
The info on the web site only mentions 50 hours of running in a test cell,
and there is no mention of any flight testing. There is also no mention of
doing the FAR 33 engine certification testing. Neat idea, but I'll let
some other guys be the guinea pigs. I'd rather deal with the devil we know
than the one we don't. If I had a twin, I'd be willing to put one on one
side, but I want to see some good service history before I put one on my
single. This is just my opinion - others will have a different perspective.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Parsons" <DAP(at)DParsons.com> |
Yes the "Discovery Wings Channel" is from the same company that does the
"Discovery Channel" as well as a bunch of other channels. The Discovery
Channel online guide will not have a listing for this program. You can get
to the Discovery Wings Channel part of the website if you click on the
button "Click Here for More Discovery Channels". Discovery Wings Channel
will be one of the options. Once there, you can click on "Schedule" and go
to the correct dates. I have found that DishTV carries DWC, but DirecTV does
not. I don't know about a digital cable carrier in your area.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roy Vosberg
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
I went to www.discoverychannel.com and did a search on wings, EAA, and "From
the Ground Up" and I came up with NOTHING. Anybody else have better luck
with researching this? I am assuming that Discovery Wings is affiliated
with Discovery Channel, maybe that is incorrect?
Roy
idle 6 builder
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and can't
find it. I have called Direct TV and the Discovery Channel, and nobody
seems to know anything...
Thanks...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: EAA TV
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com> |
Roy and others,
The only reference on Discovery.com was in the "What's on TV" channel guide.
You can select the pulldown labeled "Our TV Channels" and you'll find a
Wings selection. Then you can at least see the schedule of the programs that
you won't be able to watch!
Todd Houg
Disgruntled DirecTV subscriber!
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Vosberg [mailto:Roy.Vosberg(at)veritas.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
I went to www.discoverychannel.com and did a search on wings, EAA, and "From
the Ground Up" and I came up with NOTHING. Anybody else have better luck
with researching this? I am assuming that Discovery Wings is affiliated
with Discovery Channel, maybe that is incorrect?
Roy
idle 6 builder
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and can't
find it. I have called Direct TV and the Discovery Channel, and nobody
seems to know anything...
Thanks...
-Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: EAA TV
Please be advised that the program will air on the Discovery Wings
Channel, not the Discovery Channel.
Sam Buchanan
==================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <steve(at)lbho.freeserve.co.uk> |
BOBE - I am not sure if the question was to me, but since I
said...."........end and perhaps have to accept a 5 knot tailwind " I will
give you an answer. First my comments were about landing, there are many
more variables than takeoff. On my strip its sometimes preferable to accept
the tail wind than land over 40' trees. The trees mean the 1000' is MUCH
reduced. Its never the same either, the weight of the aircraft, the braking
on the grass the direction and steadiness of the wind. Sometimes taking the
tailwind seems the best option to me.
Takeoff? I always take the headwind unless it is so light and hot that the
40' trees dictate go the other way. For me takeoff is not the issue. I see
that much more of a book exercise. Either the aircraft can do it or it cant
depending on the conditions, assuming the pilot does a competant job. Fewer
key variables to screw up with and most can be set before you start rolling!
There is only the stick to play with.
Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BOBE." <RVPilot4(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: new guy
>
> Why would you take off with a tailwind? Or is that a misprint?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckwork Landing Lights |
In a message dated 4/5/01 11:47:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com writes:
<< Can someone tell me the wattage of the Halogen bulb in the Duckworks
landing
light kit sold by Vans? >>
Mine came with 50 watt bulbs.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Duckwork Landing Lights |
Thread-Topic: RV-List: Duckwork Landing Lights
Thread-Index: AcC+xDpEwJ2FZ8BpRQi2bbmX15RmVgAAApEw
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
The duckworks lights come with 55 watt H3 bulbs. I thought they didn't
work too well at night; I couldn't see the runway very well until I was
about 5 feet above it. I switched to 100 watt H3 bulbs from WalMart
(about $5.00 each) and noticed a big improvement. I can now see the
runway much sooner on short final.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckwork Landing Lights |
In a message dated 4/6/01 10:27:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HCRV6(at)AOL.COM
writes:
<< Mine came with 50 watt bulbs. >>
Duh! What I meant to say was 55 watts!
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | running O-320 without prop |
Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if you watch the
RPMs?
Greg Tanner
RV-9A Wings
SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Definitely NOT.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
> Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if you watch the
> RPMs?
>
>
> Greg Tanner
> RV-9A Wings
> SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mdelano" <mdelano(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: CHT/EGT probes: |
Check out Aeroelectric and omega.com. Omaga has a huge amount of
information on temp measurement. I have made my own CHT probes for a
fraction of the cost Van wants. Westac probes will work just make sure you
get type K for CHT. I do not know what Vans EGT requires. Alcor gages use a
type J.I can provide more info on fabricating your own probes if you are
interested
Mark Delano
6a finish
EAA Tech Coun.
dplute wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: dplute
>
> Does anyone out there know if the Westech cht probe # 713-5w or the egt
> probe #713-2dwk will work with Vans gauges? Aircraft Spruce has not
> answered my inquiry.
> thanks
> Doyal R. Plute rv-6a n# 4dp builder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Stephen,
Would you please explaine your reasoning behind your statement.
Gary
Stephen Johnson wrote:
>
> Definitely NOT.
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8 #80121
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
> To: "Rv-List"
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:32 PM
> Subject: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
> >
> > Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if you watch the
> > RPMs?
> >
> >
> > Greg Tanner
> > RV-9A Wings
> > SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: CHT/EGT probes: |
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
04/06/2001 03:27:01 PM
Gotta ask, whats the difference between a type K and a J? Thanks for
posting this, pretty interesting stuff.
"mdelano" (at)matronics.com on 04/06/2001 04:02:45 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV6-List: CHT/EGT probes:
Check out Aeroelectric and omega.com. Omaga has a huge amount of
information on temp measurement. I have made my own CHT probes for a
fraction of the cost Van wants. Westac probes will work just make sure you
get type K for CHT. I do not know what Vans EGT requires. Alcor gages use a
type J.I can provide more info on fabricating your own probes if you are
interested
Mark Delano
6a finish
EAA Tech Coun.
dplute wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: dplute
>
> Does anyone out there know if the Westech cht probe # 713-5w or the egt
> probe #713-2dwk will work with Vans gauges? Aircraft Spruce has not
> answered my inquiry.
> thanks
> Doyal R. Plute rv-6a n# 4dp builder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KostaLewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
>Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if you watch the
>RPMs?
YIKES
Yeah, it's safe, as long as all the internal parts of the engine that are
disintegrating remain within the case.
You need the flywheel effect of the prop to absorb the power "pulses" that
the 4 cylinder engine produces. You need somewhere for the energy that the
engine is producing to go, otherwise it "goes" back into (stays in) the
engine.
Try it on something cheap, first. Go out and take the blade off your lawn
mower and fire it up. See what happens.
In a word, unless you hold stock in Lycoming, DON'T.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
>
> YIKES
>
> Yeah, it's safe, as long as all the internal parts of the engine that are
> disintegrating remain within the case.
>
> You need the flywheel effect of the prop to absorb the power "pulses" that
> the 4 cylinder engine produces. You need somewhere for the energy that the
> engine is producing to go, otherwise it "goes" back into (stays in) the
> engine.
>
> Try it on something cheap, first. Go out and take the blade off your lawn
> mower and fire it up. See what happens.
>
This reminds me of a story from Bart LeLonde of Aerosport in Kamloops, BC.
Bart told me his got a call from a customer who asked if he thinks he might
have damaged his brand new engine by running it without a prop. Bart said,
"WHAT????" Well needless to say he told him to ship it back to the shop
immediately. It was trashed and yet Bart rebuilt the engine free of charge.
How's that for customer service?
From now on, he has placed a rather prominent warning on this engines not to
run them without a prop.
Doug
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of thousand
miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp corvair engine in
my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking apples
and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
important consideration.
I did learn from the list that builders have damaged their fuselage by
running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can bend
things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
Dave Burton
RV6A, wings
near, Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Warren" <jwdub(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Tip up canopy C602 |
I need the advice of those that have gone before. I'm about to dimple
the C-602 skin for the tip up canopy. The question is whether
countersinking the tube for CS4-4 rivits will cause cracks in the tube
over time. If it does, will the CS4-4 rivets mold into the dimple
without opening up the hole in the tube?
TIA
John Warren
RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Most auto engines have a fairly heavy flywheel, clutch assembly to smooth
out the power pulses. Aircraft engines don't have a heavy flywheel but
depend on the prop. Landrol even makes an add on flywheel to make wood prop
run smoother. Franklin added a dynamic balancer to the back of their later
model engines to make an already smooth 6 run smoother.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
> Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of thousand
> miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp corvair engine
in
> my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking apples
> and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> important consideration.
> I did learn from the list that builders have damaged their fuselage by
> running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can bend
> things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A, wings
> near, Seattle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
David, your Corvair engine had a flywheel and Harmonic Dampner while your
lycoming don't.
Gary
David Burton wrote:
>
> Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of thousand
> miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp corvair engine in
> my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking apples
> and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> important consideration.
> I did learn from the list that builders have damaged their fuselage by
> running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can bend
> things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A, wings
> near, Seattle
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
I have owned several BMW motorcycles which are opposed twin configuration,
and of course the VW bug is opposed four. The difference is that all of
these engines had a flywheel, and the Lycoming relies on the prop to act as
a flywheel.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
> Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of thousand
> miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp corvair engine
in
> my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking apples
> and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> important consideration.
> I did learn from the list that builders have damaged their fuselage by
> running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can bend
> things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A, wings
> near, Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | running O-320 without prop |
Actually, the lawnmower will run OK. Sometimes the same engines are used in
belt-drive applications, so they have a pretty heavy flywheel. Lawnmowers
aren't under the same weight constraints as airplane engines, so they can
afford the weight of a flywheel that's redundant as long as the blade is
attached.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KostaLewis [mailto:mikel(at)dimensional.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:28 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
>
>
>
> >Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if
> you watch the
> >RPMs?
>
> YIKES
>
> Yeah, it's safe, as long as all the internal parts of the
> engine that are
> disintegrating remain within the case.
>
> You need the flywheel effect of the prop to absorb the power
> "pulses" that
> the 4 cylinder engine produces. You need somewhere for the
> energy that the
> engine is producing to go, otherwise it "goes" back into
> (stays in) the
> engine.
>
> Try it on something cheap, first. Go out and take the blade
> off your lawn
> mower and fire it up. See what happens.
>
> In a word, unless you hold stock in Lycoming, DON'T.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
In a message dated 4/6/01 11:36:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gtanner(at)bendcable.com writes:
>
>
> Anybody know if it's safe to run an O-320 without a prop if you watch the
> RPMs?
>
>
> Greg Tanner
> RV-9A Wings
> SER #90186 N80BR RESERVED
>
>
>
Are you serious?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
Listers.
On my way to Sun and Fun tomorrow morning (Saturday) hope to see some of you
there.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Albarian
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:56 AM
Subject: Superfil
Hello John.
Superfil was reformulated a couple of years ago. It is blue so it can
be seen easier.
It's the same material you know and loved, improved we think.
We changed the time to 24 hours to allow the material time to cure. The
longer the cure time, the stronger the cross linking of the resin. If
you would like to know more, you may call us at 800-362-3490. Also, we
can let you know of a distributor in your area.
Regards,
Greg Albarian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Greg , what part of dont run it without a club or a prop, are you having a
problem with???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | running O-320 without prop |
Probably the prop part--I have a nice driving iron--will that work?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kdh347(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
Greg , what part of dont run it without a club or a prop, are you having a
problem with???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Rust and Powder Coatings |
Did anyone ask Van's for comments?
Van's is clearly #1 in the 'kitplane' industry. If powder coating is so
wrong and so dangerous I don't understand why they wouldn't at least stop
doing it. I'm sure they must have had the same thoughts as we do... I'm also
confident that Van's must be aware of potential issues with rust.
I have also heard that Powder Coating _can_ be dangerous if or when moisture
gets underneath it. I understand that rust can develop and spread
undetected.
Are
RV-8 Wings (powder coated elevator horns, aileron bellcranks and pushrods so
far)
From: "Bob Ducar" <aeropup(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Rust is starting to grow
I have run across numerous pro's and cons of powder
coating.
I hope I don't create a fur ball !
Best Regards
Bob Ducar
ModIV-1200, 582
Getting to the home stretch!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Greg Tanner wrote:
>
It might be called a flywheel but that parts main purpose in life is
to support the starter ring gear. Do you know and understand how a fly
wheel works?
> hmm---that's strange--I can give you a part # for one out of the parts
> manual
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:24 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
>
> Flywheel on top of what flywheel? Lycomings do not use a flywheel
>
> Greg Tanner wrote:
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Greg Tanner wrote:
>
It might be called a flywheel but that parts main purpose in life is
to support the starter ring gear. Do you know and understand how a fly
wheel works?
> hmm---that's strange--I can give you a part # for one out of the parts
> manual
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:24 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
>
>
> Flywheel on top of what flywheel? Lycomings do not use a flywheel
>
> Greg Tanner wrote:
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis /Fran Flamini" <flamini2(at)home.com> |
i don't know about the rest of you, but i am tired of looking at weather
maps and the weather channel music is making me ill.i have been going to
SNF for 11 years and can't remember waiting this long to get out of
Chicago, one red L after the other with no blue H's in sight, Dennis and
Fran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d. wayne stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Powder coat and beadblasting |
Regarding bead/sand/shot/etc blasting to remove PC.
I have read in a couple of car and truck restoration mags that
bead/sand/shot/etc blasting can have a damaging effect on metal. it is
recommended for removing rust etc from fairly massive objects but NOT ok for
use on lighter weight items, tubing, and sheet metal. The effect of the
hammering of individual media particles can warp and work harden the metal.
Some examples cited included sandblasting frames to remove rust and
subsequent breakage in the blasted and embrittled area, body metal panels
that had embrittled and warped etc..
I personally would be a bit leery of using that as a removal method and
would look into some sort of solvent-stripper. A broken car frame will only
drop me a foot or so. On an RV . . . . . ?
When we order our RV7 kit this coming winter this whole PC issue will
require a very thoughtful look. Maybe by then Van's will have a resolution.
wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: running O-320 without prop |
Greg - Thats not a fly wheel - It is a starter ring gear support. BIG
difference. It sounds as though you have been around automobiles over the
years. You will learn that aircraft engines are a real different breed of
thier own.
Douglas G. Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
> *************
> In fact, here's a picture of one.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=574521397
> *************
>
> Flywheel on top of what flywheel? Lycomings do not use a flywheel
>**************
> > So----If I mount a flywheel (internally balanced) on top of the flywheel
> > already on it-- it will work?
***************
> > I have owned several BMW motorcycles which are opposed twin
configuration,
> > and of course the VW bug is opposed four. The difference is that all of
> > these engines had a flywheel, and the Lycoming relies on the prop to act
> as a flywheel.
***************8
> > Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> > > knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> > > engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of
> thousand miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp
corvair engine
> > in my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking
> apples and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> > > configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> > > important consideration. I did learn from the list that builders
have damaged their fuselage
> by running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can
bend
> > > things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
I know how you feel Dennis......I'm in NH and I hope to get out tomorrow.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Running Lycomings without props |
I think everyone commenting on this is missing the point. the question is, if
a flywheel with sufficient mass to provide the required inertia to keep the
engine running smoothly is used, can they be run without a prop, or does the
engine design require the resistance and or drag from the prop. Or does the
prop flex with each engine pulse in such a way as to absorb shock waves more
efficiently than an ordinary flywheel.
Kevin in WA -9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Running Lycomings without props |
Ok, why would you go through the effort to fabricate (and balance) a custom
flywheel instead of using an available club or prop? I did check the
Lycoming website and the only reference to running an engine with a club
stated 'for cooling' and the baffles also need to be installed. That's all
I can say on a subject I know nothing whatsoever about. ;-) Learning
though....
Bill
-4 wings.......SUN N FUN IS HERE!!!!!! Wooohoooooo
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Running Lycomings without props
>
> I think everyone commenting on this is missing the point. the question is,
if
> a flywheel with sufficient mass to provide the required inertia to keep
the
> engine running smoothly is used, can they be run without a prop, or does
the
> engine design require the resistance and or drag from the prop. Or does
the
> prop flex with each engine pulse in such a way as to absorb shock waves
more
> efficiently than an ordinary flywheel.
> Kevin in WA -9A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | running O-320 without prop |
LOL--you are correct---I've been around (and still am) automotive stuff
forever. I used to race Blown Alcohol rear engine dragsters. I call it a
flywheel on the Lycoming because that's what Lycoming calls it. I would
actually be inclined to call it a flex plate except it's heavier than a
regular flex plate. It more resembles a flywheel for a V-drive boat--but not
quite. You could also get into a discussion about the purpose of a flywheel
but that would be another debate. The vibration dampening of a flywheel is
not it's primary purpose. (This all depends on application) As some of you
know, there are many different sizes and weights of flywheels. Some of the
purpose of the size is the amount of surface area required to transfer the
torque of the engine to the drivetrain through the clutch. This is why
diesel engines typically have larger flywheels. Some smaller engines have
small diameter flywheels but they are thick and heavy. These are made so
when the engines are operating at low RPMs, they dont quit (lugging) In this
case they are used more for inertia than for dampening. If you get into
industrial applications, you find flywheels used mostly for inertia (iron
workers, ounch presses etc.) Flywheels aren't typically used as
dampeners--that's why they make Harmonic Dampeners.(or balancers) These are
used to help balance the rotating assy(especially on external balanced
engines) and as inportant dampen the harmonic vibration inherent in most all
internal cumbustion engines. On my blown engines, a harmonic dampener wasn't
used as the blower drive hub is mounted on the crank snout and a 4" wide
ribbed belt acts as the dampener. Also, these engines are carefully
balanced and tuned so harmonics aren't usually a problem. They also don't
operate for extended periods of time at a specific RPM. A better dampening
system is with a viscous dampening device. (like in aftermarket dampeners)
These adjust to the specific engines harmonic range. Most engines have
harmonic spikes at diferent RPMs. This is based on what components are used
internally and what their composition is. For example an engine using
aluminum rods normally has considerable lower harmonics as the impact from
the firing of the combustion chamber is dampened as it its transfered to the
rod journal on the crank. I know this is mostly automotive related (or
industrial) but an aircraft engine is still a horizontally opposed internal
combustion engine with the crank and cam designed to operate at its peak at
a specific RPM for long periods of time. Not rocket science.
Greg
I hope I didn't waste too much of everybodies time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douglas G.
Murray
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
Greg - Thats not a fly wheel - It is a starter ring gear support. BIG
difference. It sounds as though you have been around automobiles over the
years. You will learn that aircraft engines are a real different breed of
thier own.
Douglas G. Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
> *************
> In fact, here's a picture of one.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=574521397
> *************
>
> Flywheel on top of what flywheel? Lycomings do not use a flywheel
>**************
> > So----If I mount a flywheel (internally balanced) on top of the flywheel
> > already on it-- it will work?
***************
> > I have owned several BMW motorcycles which are opposed twin
configuration,
> > and of course the VW bug is opposed four. The difference is that all of
> > these engines had a flywheel, and the Lycoming relies on the prop to act
> as a flywheel.
***************8
> > Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> > > knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> > > engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of
> thousand miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp
corvair engine
> > in my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking
> apples and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> > > configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> > > important consideration. I did learn from the list that builders
have damaged their fuselage
> by running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can
bend
> > > things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List IO-360 weight? |
| From: | Scott R McDaniels <smcdaniels(at)juno.com> |
From: "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: IO-360 Weight?
293 lbs
[
quick question:
About how much does an IO-360 weigh without prop?
Thanks,
--Sam
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The info I have is that an IO-360A1B6 (200 HP) weighs about 330 lbs.
The IO-360 parallel valve engine (180 HP) weighs about 290 lbs.
Scott McDaniels
Aurora, OR
These opinions and ideas are my own and may not
reflect the opinions or ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
| Subject: | running O-320 without prop |
Let's toss one more thing into the fire--how about GPUs---no prop
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Zilik
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: running O-320 without prop
David, your Corvair engine had a flywheel and Harmonic Dampner while your
lycoming don't.
Gary
David Burton wrote:
>
> Well, I hope to learn something here... I would not do it without
> knowing for sure that it was safe. I do know that I have run corvair
> engines (6 cylinder horizontally opposed engines) for hundreds of thousand
> miles without having a prop attached :-) The 140 hp corvair engine
in
> my motorcycle ran for ten years that way. I know that I'm talking apples
> and oranges here a little, but they are basicly the same engine
> configuration. The prop does function as a rev limiter which is an
> important consideration.
> I did learn from the list that builders have damaged their fuselage by
> running the engine without having the wings attached. Seems it can bend
> things up with the shaking or torque that is absorbed by the wings.
>
> Dave Burton
> RV6A, wings
> near, Seattle
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Running Lycomings without props |
In a message dated 4/6/01 5:18:12 PM, billshook(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
>Ok, why would you go through the effort to fabricate (and balance) a custom
>flywheel instead of using an available club or prop? I did check the
>Lycoming website and the only reference to running an engine with a club
>stated 'for cooling' and the baffles also need to be installed. That's
>all
>I can say on a subject I know nothing whatsoever about. ;-) Learning
>though....
>
>Bill
There ya go, thats the missing factor I didnt think of COOLING
Kevin in WA
-9A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: CHT/EGT probes: |
In a message dated 4/6/01 12:31:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com writes:
<< Gotta ask, what's the difference between a type K and a J? Thanks for
posting this, pretty interesting stuff. >>
Different temperature range. Type K is color coded yellow/red, Type J is
white/red and Type T is blue/red. In the US red is the negative side of the
thermocouple. I'll send my article on Aircraft Systems design issues
including this and other stuff directly to you.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Help, RV-4 skin alignment fix.... |
I am working on my fuse bottom forward skin on the RV-4 (the F422B) and
unfortunately I followed the dimensions on the prints and cut the skin prior
to installation. It is now approximately 1/4" too narrow width wise on the
area behind the overhang for the center of the wing and the F407 bulkhead.
This does not give enough rivet clearance to rivet the F426 bottom skin to
the F415 seat floor rib in this area behind the overhang and the F407 rib. I
need advice on the best way to rivet these sections together. My ideas:
1. rivet a .040 piece to the top side of the F415 as jigged and to the bottom
side as jigged F422B, but this will leave a .040 stress on the F422 skin.
2. rivet a .040 piece to the bottom side of the F415 as jigged and the bottom
side as jigged of the F422B, but this will 'cock' the enforcement piece by
.040 and could leave a depression.
3. rivet a .040 piece to the bottom side of the F415 as jigged and add a .040
spacer so it sits flush to the underside of F422B. The only issue here is I
have dimpled the F415 and I'd have to work around those.
I have attached a picture of the problem, it may explain this better than my
words. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
-Mike Kraus
trying to get my fuse skins ready to rivet prior to Sun-N-Fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Hobby Tax Question |
In working with Turbo-Tax I see a miscellaneous deduction for a hobby. I know
this sounds "far out", but does anyone know more about this. Thanks, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: CHT/EGT probes: |
To Bob McC.....
Thank you for your informative input on thermocouples. I printed it and put
it into my notebook. But, why not archive it?
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Hobby Tax Question |
He-he. I saw that too. I put the plane expenses in there just to see what
would happen. It had a nice effect on the refund! But I took it back off.
I figured that had to be an audit flag.
As I understand it: if you happend to make some money with your hobby, and
you report that money as income (ya, right!), then you can deduct the
expenses related to that hobby to offset the income. So in the end, I guess
it's a wash. I chose the K.I.S.S technique and didn't mess with it.
BTW, I highly recommend Turbo-Tax via the web.
Cheers,
Larry "I ain't no accountant" Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:59 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Hobby Tax Question
>
>
> In working with Turbo-Tax I see a miscellaneous deduction for a
> hobby. I know
> this sounds "far out", but does anyone know more about this. Thanks, Bob
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Powder coat and beadblasting |
----- Original Message -----
From: "d. wayne stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Powder coat and beadblasting
>
> Regarding bead/sand/shot/etc blasting to remove PC.
> I have read in a couple of car and truck restoration mags that
> bead/sand/shot/etc blasting can have a damaging effect on metal. it is
> recommended for removing rust etc from fairly massive objects but NOT ok
for
> use on lighter weight items, tubing, and sheet metal. The effect of the
> hammering of individual media particles can warp and work harden the
metal.
> Some examples cited included sandblasting frames to remove rust and
> subsequent breakage in the blasted and embrittled area, body metal panels
> that had embrittled and warped etc..
There are many types of blasting media. Spherical media blasting can
put the surface of the metal in compression and remove small defects. This
can reduce the metal's tendency towards micro-cracking (fatigue) and
effectively strengthen the part. There are also media such as walnut hulls
which will not affect the surface at all. It's important to understand what
type of media is being used and choose the right one for the application.
Additional surface treatment may be necessary after blasting.
The powder coated parts can be ordered from Vans bare if you are
worried about the coating and want to apply something else...
Dave Burton
RV6A, wings
near Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Tax Question |
How about the hobby/work contribution to the EAA Foundation at OSH etc.?
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Anyone know of a provider that carries DWC? >>
TIME WARNER here In Tampa , Discovery Wings on my TV almost 24-7
scott
tampa
rv6a finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mike Seager Trainning/Tampa conclusion |
Dear Listers:
well, another successful year of transition training in Tampa.
Mike left for Lakeland today to hook up with his gang from Vans and set up
the show tent.
All scheduled pilots showed up this year, only 1 pilot canceled 1 of his time
slots after the first hour with Mike, I quess he felt comfortable enough that
he didn't need another hour, and Mike was shorted his pay for that empty time
slot. Next time I host Mike in Tampa, I think I will get Payment in advance
to eliminate this problem.
everyone enjoyed great weather,
One scary moment was when Mike had to take evasive action to prevent a midair
with a F-15, that was blazing straight at him from McDill AFB.
I forgot the students name, but wish he would give us a rundown on his
perspective of the event. Mike said it was a very near miss and the F-15 went
right under them.
Since my plane wasn't ready for test flying, he had a day extra, and we went
deep sea fishing. Everyone's arms were hurting from reeling in all those big
fish. his dad Bud caught the most fish, I caught the biggest fish, and many
beers were drunk.
Eating the fish that night was just as good.
I'll send some pictures to Vans to put in the RVator of the catch.
That's it for now, I'll be at sun n fun Tuesday to meet some RV buddies on
the list, at Vans tent at noon.
hope to see yall there
Scott
Tampa rv6a finishing but not flying yet :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skybolt-aviator" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
Direct tv does not carry discovery wings, however dish tv does.
Ollie&Lorene Washburn
RV6-A,N795LW,@FD77.
O-360,180HP,C/S,300+hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: EAA TV
>
> Anybody know what channel Discovery Wings is on? I have Direct TV and
can't
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Tax Question |
The EAA sends out tax deduction info for volunteers every year. It probably
is available on their web site. I have attached tif of two pages sent a
couple of years ago as a separate message.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
----- Original Message -----
From: <DWENSING(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hobby Tax Question
>
> How about the hobby/work contribution to the EAA Foundation at OSH etc.?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Tax Question |
The hobby tax rules aren't as beneficial as they may appear. In a nutshell,
you can use losses from your hobby ONLY to offset any income your hobby
produces. You can't show a loss and take it off of other income. So if you
want to write off $2000 worth of hobby expenses you need at least $2000 of
income from the hobby, putting you right back where you started.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)micron.net
>
> In working with Turbo-Tax I see a miscellaneous deduction for a hobby. I
know
> this sounds "far out", but does anyone know more about this. Thanks, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Doing it as you described, is the gascolator still in the wing root, or on
the firewall? I think the original poster was looking for a wing root
example.
Larry Bowen
Listening on the scanner to all the experimentals
headed for LAL while working on the RV-8 fuse...sigh....
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:38 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing root mounted gascolator question
>
>
> Marty,
> No, there is only one gascolator. The fuel tanks are plumbed to the fuel
> selector before the gascolator and fuel pump. That way, you only need one.
> Charlie Kuss
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | RV9a tie down skin hole/plug |
I am planning to use the stainless tie downs from Van's (already in
hand).
1. Does everyone put them in and leave them exposed all the time or do
you screw them in when you need them?
2. If you don't leave them in all the time, what do you use to fill the
hole?
Barry Pote
RV9a Wings
PS if you see me sliding under your plane at Sun N Fun, that's what I am
looking at!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Robertson <gordon(at)safemail.com> |
| Subject: | Seats for Rv-8 or RV-4 |
Hello rv-listers,
Jody Villa and I are about to place an order with Jon Johanson for some
of his RV-8 / RV-4 seats. These will be shipped from Australia, and it
is less expensive if many are shipped together. The total price for 2
seats, including shipping and customs, is likely to be in the $900 -
$1000 range depending on how many we can get shipped together.
These are the seats that Jon had specially made for him by Velo Racing
Seats for his round-the-world flights. You can see the seats and some
details in the following link.
http://tabshred.com/moe/jonsseat.htm
If anybody is interested in joining us, please contact me off-line and I
will be glad to provide more info, additional pictures etc.and work with
you for a bulk shipment. No profit to me, of course, except that I get
to participate in the lower shipping cost. I am in the San Fransisco
area, so forward shipping charges would apply, but I would establish
what they are before you commit money.
Gordon Robertson
gordon(at)safemail.com
RV-8 fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Damm" <edamm(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE - RV-8 tail (partially completed), wing kit (untouched) |
I have decided to build the RV-7 instead of the RV-8. I am
offering for sale my RV-8 emp. kit.
I have completed the HS, VS, and rudder. I have just begun
the right elevator, the left elevator and trim tab are
untouched. All interior components are primed. I have the
optional electric trim kit.
All work is good to excellent quality. I am an experienced
builder, this is my second kit. I am located in the
Chicago,IL area. I am asking $1800.
I also have an RV-8 wing kit on order which is due to ship
on or about 5/7 if anybody would like to get one earlier
than the current 8 week lead time. I will transfer it for
the amount I have on deposit ($1250) and the kit would ship
from Van's to you directly with the balance payable to
Van's.
Please contact me via e-mail at edamm(at)core.com if
interested.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Tax Question |
Sorry to say that I looked but could not find the Tax info on the EAA
website. There are actually 3 pages which I have scanned as tifs. If you
are interested I can send as an attachment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hobby Tax Question
>
> The EAA sends out tax deduction info for volunteers every year. It
probably
> is available on their web site. I have attached tif of two pages sent a
> couple of years ago as a separate message.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DWENSING(at)AOL.COM>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hobby Tax Question
>
>
> >
> > How about the hobby/work contribution to the EAA Foundation at OSH etc.?
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | MicroMonitor MAP sensor installation |
Quick questions. Of those of you with MicroMonitors what type of tubing did
you use to connect the map sensor to the cylinder? How did you make the
connection at the cylinder end and the MAP sensor end? Also does anyone
know if there is a molex-type connector available for the NAPA MAP sensor
that MicroMonitor sells? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
Listers. Someone posted info on acoustic material and/or flooring
material for RV's. I contacted the company and received the following
reply. Looks like they may offer several alternatives. This is not an
endorsement, in that I have not obtained anything from them so I can't
speak re: suitability, etc. I will be looking closer into this, though.
Rick Jory RV8A QB
----- Original Message -----
From: Custom Acoustic Specialties
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Material
Thank you for your interest in Custom Acoustic Specialties!
Yes, I am very familiar with the RV kit planes. The manufacturing plant
is across the mountains from our warehouse, and I have visited there
many times. I am currently working on a project with an RV 6A builder
for sound proofing, vibration dampening and so forth.
I like to use a rigid mineral wool type material with foil on one side,
against the firewalls. This helps with sound waves, reverb, vibrations,
and heat. Cost $35 dollars for 2'x4' sheet.
I also have a very unique rubber product that is great for the floors!!!
Wonderful for sound dampening, vibrations dampening, and great for leg
fatigue. It is an exclusive blend of PVC and Nitrile and it is fire
proof. It is extremely light weight, and very durable, but at the same
time soft and spongy. This mat is a closed cell rubber which is
nonabsorbent, and impervious to everything from acids, chemicals,
petroleum products, and more, and is molds and mildew resistant.
These mats are 3/4" thick, and comes in a wide range of pre-set sizes,
but custom sizes are also available. There's nothing else like this, and
the aviation world is very excited about this new product. Example
pricing: 42" x 70" mat - $450, 35" x 42" mat - $285, 22" x 40" mat -
$230. Mats come in black or gray colors.
Acoustic Convoluted, or flat foams. I use a wide range of acoustic foams
in airplanes. I use a fire retardant ester foam. It is light weight, can
be made to any sheet size or thickness. I prefer the convoluted foam,
because it helps to adsorb sound waves and vibrations, it is also a
great insulator. This foam comes standard in 2" thick x 54" x 82" sheets
at a cost of $75. It is easy to cut and work with.
We also carry a wide range of acoustic felts, interior liners, and
carpets that are all fire retardant but also offer acoustic dampening
properties. Ask if interested.
I hope this helps, and good luck on your airplane project.
Thank you,
Gretchen Brady
Custom Acoustic Specialties
Acoustics Division of Gretch-Ken Industries
63089 Sherman Road, #4
Bend, Oregon 97702
Phone: 1-888-833-1554
Fax: 509-267-0880
E-mail: soundproof(at)engineer.com
http://customacousticspecialties.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Jory
To: soundproof(at)engineer.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: Material
Hello. There's quite a number of people building "RV" series of
airplanes. It's a very popular, safe aircraft. Those of us in the
building phase (versus completion and flying) subscribe to a list where
we exchange builder's tips and information. Today someone referred us
to your website for material to use on the floor. I'd be interested in
what you have?? I know some builders have purchased foam mats like one
would use in camping (the roll-up mats) and have used this material.
Some put this down, then cover this with carpet. I believe the
thickness most builders use is between 1/2" and 3/4". Do you have
anything that might make sense? If it is nothing more than a rubber
material, do you cover this with carpet or is the material sturdy enough
to withstand normal "wear and tear", keeping in mind no one's doing much
walking in these planes . . . just sitting with their feet on pedals or
the floor.
Thanks in advance.
rickjory(at)msn.com
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root mounted gascolator question |
Larry
It's in the wing root. Several people have even managed to put fuel pump in the
wing root. I'll send you a photo of Rob Acker's setup off list.
Charlie Kuss
>
> Doing it as you described, is the gascolator still in the wing root, or on
> the firewall? I think the original poster was looking for a wing root
> example.
>
> Larry Bowen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | cutting painted alum. |
Folks,
I'm sure I'm not the first.............so any tips would be
appreciated. My panel has been painted, installed, and wired (mostly) for
months. My avionics 'hole' was measured and cut for my stack. I changed my
mind and went with a Garmin GTX327 instead of the UPS slimline SL70
transponder and now I'm 3/8" short on height for my Skymap IIIC GPS.
Question...........can I cut the 3/8" with my dremmel (panel intact........of
course) and not ruin the finished paint? The cut will be made on the top of
the opening. I'm as good as anyone with my trusty dremmel but I'm worried
about the heat on the paint. Or..............must I spend another $1,000 to
$1,500 bucks to buy the slimmer (4" instead of 4.5") KMD 150 GPS and slide it
in 'as is'? The panel could be removed and repainted but is not an option
just yet
Thanks in advance.
Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
Please...............archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9a tie down skin hole/plug |
I take them out (less drag) and don't plug the hole (not THAT picky).
>
>I am planning to use the stainless tie downs from Van's (already in
>hand).
>
>1. Does everyone put them in and leave them exposed all the time or do
>you screw them in when you need them?
>
>2. If you don't leave them in all the time, what do you use to fill the
>hole?
>
>Barry Pote
>RV9a Wings
>
>PS if you see me sliding under your plane at Sun N Fun, that's what I am
>looking at!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MTMCGOWAN(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Tax Question |
the tax credit mentioned for a hobby can be explained this
way-----------if you made money with your hobby, you can offset the profits
with the cost of materials. mike---rv-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: RV9a tie down skin hole/plug |
In a message dated 4/7/01 9:18:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
barrypote(at)home.com writes:
<< I am planning to use the stainless tie downs from Van's (already in
hand).
1. Does everyone put them in and leave them exposed all the time or do
you screw them in when you need them?>>
Screw them when you need them.
<< 2. If you don't leave them in all the time, what do you use to fill the
hole? >>
Ambient air pressure.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSEckstein(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: MicroMonitor MAP sensor installation |
In a message dated 4/7/01 2:14:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
svanarts(at)unionsafe.com writes:
>
> Quick questions. Of those of you with MicroMonitors what type of tubing
did
> you use to connect the map sensor to the cylinder? How did you make the
> connection at the cylinder end and the MAP sensor end? Also does anyone
> know if there is a molex-type connector available for the NAPA MAP sensor
> that MicroMonitor sells? Thanks!
>
>
Soft AL tubing with a loop as per Tony B.'s Firewall forward book. I was a
bit uncomfotable with tubing, but even if it breaks, it won't ruin my day.
Not aware of a molex connector.
Brian Eckstein
6A final assy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9a tie down skin hole/plug |
Thanks for the come back.
Barry
Vanremog(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 4/7/01 9:18:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> barrypote(at)home.com writes:
>
> << I am planning to use the stainless tie downs from Van's (already in
> hand).
>
> 1. Does everyone put them in and leave them exposed all the time or do
> you screw them in when you need them?>>
>
> Screw them when you need them.
>
> << 2. If you don't leave them in all the time, what do you use to fill the
> hole? >>
>
> Ambient air pressure.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV)
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Listers,
I'm planning a flight up to Revelstoke, B.C. next week. My passenger is
planning to buy Homer Roger's RV-6A. For the customs check-in on the
Canadian side, Kelowna has been recommended. Any comments or suggestions?
I don't know which port of entry to use on the U.S. side coming back. What
U.S. airport has proven to be reasonably hassle-free for you Canadian
RV'ers? I'll be taking a south to southeast heading out of Revelstoke, to
get back home to New Mexico.
Thanks,
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)involved.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | RE: Transporting assembled airplane |
The April issue of the Home Wing newsletter addresses the question of
transporting a plane to the airport (they did take the wings off). Look at
it in 3 months or go to http://www.edt.com:80/homewing/newsletter.html now
to sign up for it & have it emailed to you.
Dick Scott
RV-6A Starting
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard McCraw
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: Transporting assembled airplane
I'm sure you've considered this, but I don't think you'd want to transport
the plane literally on its nose. I can't imagine the crankshaft, prop
attach, etc., are stressed for this, even if much of the weight is supported
elsewhere.
The only way I'd consider is a cradle for the wings. Even then, I wouldn't.
Again, it seems you're stressing structure in ways and directions for which
it wasn't designed.
Rick McCraw
rmccraw(at)wcvt.com
Bonanza pilot. Not a builder yet, but strongly considering an RV-7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
Reposting this explanation for inclusion in the archives at the request of several
listers.
A thermocouple is a junction of two different metals. i.e. wires made from two
different materials
are welded together to form a thermocouple. One of the characteristics of such
a junction is that
when heated you can measure a tiny electrical voltage at the opposite end of the
wire. It is
measurement of this voltage which makes a thermocouple useful for measuring temperature
as for each
thermocouple any specific generated voltage represents a specific temperature.
The different
thermocouple designs, (type B, C, E, J, K, M, N, P, R, S, or T) simply represent
the metals used in
their construction. A type J thermocouple for example is made from iron and constantan,
while a type
K is nickel chrome and nickel aluminium and a type T is copper and constantan.
You must use the
correct type for any given application as the observed voltages are unique to each
type.
Hope this clarifies without being overly technical.
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
Brian,
Don't be too surprised if you are rudely treated by the U.S. Customs agent
on the way back. We had a really annoying experience a few years ago
returning to the U.S. from dropping off the co-owner of my friends Cessna
185 amphib in BC for a fishing trip. We hit Friday Harbor in the San Juan
Islands right on schedule, but we were left sitting in the plane for half an
hour or 45 minutes while the lone agent BSed with tourists. Then he chewed
us out, with obcenities, for not having completed the form before we
arrived.
It was totally unacceptable behavior, but he had the gun and apparently more
power than brains. It really left a bad taste, but then I learned that it
was not at all uncommon.
Terry
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
Port Townsend-Jefferson County airport 0S9 is another port of entry, I havent
heard of any bad treatment there.
Kevin in Bremerton WA
-9A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
, "T.A.Rabaut"
| Subject: | Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
Okay guys... (and Gals) Here's one for the log books!
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
Subject: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
> > READ THIS BEFORE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE!
> >
> > You are the chief airplane washer at the company hangar and you:
> >
> > (1) Hook high pressure hose up to the soap suds machine.
> >
> > (2) Turn the machine "on".
> >
> > (3) Receive an important call and have to leave work to go home.
> >
> > (4) As you depart for home, you yell to Don, your assistant,
> > "Don, turn it off."
> >
> > (5) Assistant Don thinks he hears, "Don't turn it off."
> > He shrugs, and leaves the area right after you.
> >
> > (6) Refer to attachment for the results.
> >
> >> >
> > Actually happened! Now see the picture of the consequences.
> >
-
-------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Aft fuse insp. covers |
Any idea why the plan's specify round-head screws for the inspections covers
on the aft of the fuse? I'm thinking flush #6 screws would look a lot
better. What have others done?
Thx,
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
Chuck:
You forgot the attachment!
Dave
Chuck Rabaut wrote:
>
>
> Okay guys... (and Gals) Here's one for the log books!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim
> To: Chuck Rabaut
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:32 PM
> Subject: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
> Subject: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
> > > READ THIS BEFORE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE!
> > >
> > > You are the chief airplane washer at the company hangar and you:
> > >
> > > (1) Hook high pressure hose up to the soap suds machine.
> > >
> > > (2) Turn the machine "on".
> > >
> > > (3) Receive an important call and have to leave work to go home.
> > >
> > > (4) As you depart for home, you yell to Don, your assistant,
> > > "Don, turn it off."
> > >
> > > (5) Assistant Don thinks he hears, "Don't turn it off."
> > > He shrugs, and leaves the area right after you.
> > >
> > > (6) Refer to attachment for the results.
> > >
> > >> >
> > > Actually happened! Now see the picture of the consequences.
> > >
>
>
> -
>
> -------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
>
>Brian,
>
>Don't be too surprised if you are rudely treated by the U.S. Customs agent
>on the way back. We had a really annoying experience a few years ago
>returning to the U.S. from dropping off the co-owner of my friends Cessna
>185 amphib in BC for a fishing trip. We hit Friday Harbor in the San Juan
>Islands right on schedule, but we were left sitting in the plane for half
>an
>hour or 45 minutes while the lone agent BSed with tourists. Then he chewed
>us out, with obcenities, for not having completed the form before we
>arrived.
>
>It was totally unacceptable behavior, but he had the gun and apparently
>more
>power than brains. It really left a bad taste, but then I learned that it
>was not at all uncommon.
>
>Terry
>Seattle
Terry,
Yeah, I've heard plenty of horror stories about US Customs being really
abusive while the Canadians just love to take good care of us. Amazing,
isn't it? I'll just take a deep breath and hope for the best. Otherwise
you'll see me on the evening news..."disgruntled homemade airplane pilot
shoves custom's agent's personal sidearm up agent's rectum."
Pray for me. ;)
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
, "T.A.Rabaut" ,
| Subject: | Picture I've been trying to attach |
Hopefully this attachment will get to you guys/gals.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Oliveira <Oliveira(at)eznet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Picture I've been trying to attach |
The groups program does not appear to pass through attachments. I
believe you need to refer to a web site or other location where people
can get the files
John Oliveira
RV9A N909RV Reserved
Chuck Rabaut wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Chuck Rabaut"
>
> Hopefully this attachment will get to you guys/gals.
>
> Chuck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
Chuck,
You would need to post it to a web site. If you don't have that luxury,
send it to me outside the list and I can post it.
Tim Bryan
timbryan(at)oregontrail.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
; "T.A.Rabaut"
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
> Okay guys... (and Gals) Here's one for the log books!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim
> To: Chuck Rabaut
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:32 PM
> Subject: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
>
> Subject: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
>
> > > READ THIS BEFORE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE!
> > >
> > > You are the chief airplane washer at the company hangar and you:
> > >
> > > (1) Hook high pressure hose up to the soap suds machine.
> > >
> > > (2) Turn the machine "on".
> > >
> > > (3) Receive an important call and have to leave work to go home.
> > >
> > > (4) As you depart for home, you yell to Don, your assistant,
> > > "Don, turn it off."
> > >
> > > (5) Assistant Don thinks he hears, "Don't turn it off."
> > > He shrugs, and leaves the area right after you.
> > >
> > > (6) Refer to attachment for the results.
> > >
> > >> >
> > > Actually happened! Now see the picture of the consequences.
> > >
>
>
> -
>
>
> -------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Aft fuse insp. covers |
Larry,
I used flush screws and #6 dimple nut plates on the sides, flat nut plates
and countersunk for the top inspection cover screws. I also used #6 flat
nut plates where Van tells you to drill and tap the longeron for the HS
fairing.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (day three of fitting the AirFlow injection mixture cable)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aft fuse insp. covers
Any idea why the plan's specify round-head screws for the inspections covers
on the aft of the fuse? I'm thinking flush #6 screws would look a lot
better. What have others done?
Thx,
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
Rick,
Believe me, we didn't question anything. We had been forewarned. This guy
was just a jerk with a badge and a gun, and no superiors on the same island.
Lest I appear to be making a blanket indictment of all US Customs agents,
the person that told us later that this was not uncommon at Friday Harbor
was another customs agent and my long time Karate instructor and friend, one
of the most curteous people I have ever known.
This was several years ago. Hopefully he has moved on. Perhaps by now,
without his badge and gun, someone has taught him some manners.
Terry
Seattle
I second Kevin's comment about the Spruce Goose cafe at Port Townsend
(Jefferson County) airport. The food is good and the service excellent.
Cute too, but that's not PC these days.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
>...One other point re: customs people . .
> . if you fall on your sword and do exactly, exactly what they say and
don't
> question anything, you've got a good chance of no hassles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Picture I've been trying to attach |
Chuck, et al:
From your welcome message when you joined the list...
---
Sending Enclosures
Please do not send enclosures of any kind to the RV-List! Generally these
very large and make the Archive file grow way too fast. There are also
many members on the RV-List that cannot handle these messages. There area
number ftp servers and Web pages that enclosure-type data can be posted
to for all to read. If you would like something added to the RV-List
section on "ftp.matronics.com" please send an email message to
"dralle(at)matronics.com" with your request.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Please Post "Outside" the list for folks to enjoy |
Okay... okay... I forgot you can't squeeze pictures through Matt's system.
Tim was kind enough to set it up at the site listed. Thank you Tim for your
assistance.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Bryan <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net>
go directly at www.eaa617.org/Whoops.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <timbryan(at)oregontrail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
I sent this back to chuck, But in case he isn't hanging out at his e-mail.
The picture is posted at www.eaa617.org Click on the Whoops link on the
left. Or www.eaa617.org/Whoops.htm
Thanks Chuck for sharing it with us. It is cute.
Tim Bryan
timbryan(at)oregontrail.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
; "T.A.Rabaut"
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:58 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
> Okay guys... (and Gals) Here's one for the log books!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim
> To: Chuck Rabaut
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:32 PM
> Subject: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
>
> Subject: The Importance of Clear Communication!!!
>
>
> > > READ THIS BEFORE LOOKING AT THE PICTURE!
> > >
> > > You are the chief airplane washer at the company hangar and you:
> > >
> > > (1) Hook high pressure hose up to the soap suds machine.
> > >
> > > (2) Turn the machine "on".
> > >
> > > (3) Receive an important call and have to leave work to go home.
> > >
> > > (4) As you depart for home, you yell to Don, your assistant,
> > > "Don, turn it off."
> > >
> > > (5) Assistant Don thinks he hears, "Don't turn it off."
> > > He shrugs, and leaves the area right after you.
> > >
> > > (6) Refer to attachment for the results.
> > >
> > >> >
> > > Actually happened! Now see the picture of the consequences.
> > >
>
>
> -
>
>
> -------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcbraem(at)home.com |
| Subject: | gear leg stiffeners--not wood |
All--
Does anyone have real world experience with either glass epoxy rod
(5/8"@19.80/ft. from ACSpruce) or Delrin rod (5/8"@2.21/ft from ACS)???
I have to swallow my pride and admit that the longer titanium gear is
driving me nuts!!!
Boyd Braem
RV-Super 6
SW Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <doug.weiler(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
In my RV-4 I have a GX-55 GPS with an antenna mounted on top of the fuselage
(under the canopy) just aft of the rear seat. I am looking to buy a Garmin
GPS Pilot III and perhaps mount it on a bracket to the rear of the front
seat back to provide the rear seat passenger with some "entertainment" (so
at least my wife will believe me when I say we are going 170 knots!).
Granted I could use the supplied antenna and use their suction cup mount and
stick it to the canopy side, but what I'd really like to do is run another
coax from the existing antenna and route it out of sight.
My question, is it possible to drive the two GPS units from one antenna?
How would this be done? Would it work and what type of connectors would be
necessary.
Thanks
Doug
================
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe wiza <jwiza1(at)yahoo.com> |
I have a garmin 195 and 295 which I use for X country.
I ran the antenna wires up the front side of the roll
bar and stuck them to the windshield. Beside cleaning
the windshield and cups, applying lots of voodoo they
alternately take turns falling down??? any ideas
thanks ahead
Joe RV6A 140hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted alum. |
Rick,
I had to do a little of the same on my panel. It didn't hurt the paint at
all. I don't know how much diference it would make but I painted my panel
with SW Sunfire urethane paint.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: cutting painted alum.
>Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 17:28:11 EDT
>
>
>Folks,
> I'm sure I'm not the first.............so any tips would be
>appreciated. My panel has been painted, installed, and wired (mostly) for
>months. My avionics 'hole' was measured and cut for my stack. I changed my
>mind and went with a Garmin GTX327 instead of the UPS slimline SL70
>transponder and now I'm 3/8" short on height for my Skymap IIIC GPS.
>Question...........can I cut the 3/8" with my dremmel (panel
>intact........of
>course) and not ruin the finished paint? The cut will be made on the top of
>the opening. I'm as good as anyone with my trusty dremmel but I'm worried
>about the heat on the paint. Or..............must I spend another $1,000 to
>$1,500 bucks to buy the slimmer (4" instead of 4.5") KMD 150 GPS and slide
>it
>in 'as is'? The panel could be removed and repainted but is not an option
>just yet
> Thanks in advance.
>Rick Gray RV6QB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
>Please...............archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Hall" <robjhall(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS antennas |
Doug,
You can leave the antenna attached as it comes with the unit and it will
work just fine. One of my hangar mates did what you are considering. He
mounted a GPS Pilot III on small shelf attached to the roll bar legs.
Besides the shelf, the only other thing he did was install a 12v aux power
outlet for it to avoid the expense and hassle of replacing batteries. From
my experience with GPS Pilot III, the batteries will last about 12 hours.
Bob Hall
RV-6, Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net> |
| Subject: | Discovery Channel Building RV-8 |
The east coast feed of discovery channel is broadcasting a 13 week series on
building an RV-8. It is NOT being broadcast on the Pacific Coast feed.
Did anyone tape it? can you dub a copy for me?
email
mailto:bob(at)theblums.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net> |
| Subject: | Discovery Channel RV8 series |
The east coast feed of discovery channel is broadcasting a 13 week series on
building an RV-8. It is NOT being broadcast on the Pacific Coast feed.
Did anyone tape it? can you dub a copy for me?
email
mailto:bob(at)theblums.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
Hi Joe,
The antenna that came with my Magellan was a small disk with 3 suction cups.
I unscrewed the suction cups leaving 3 small holes in the antenna and
mounted it with screws to the top of the skin that overhangs the instrument
panel. It has a great view of the sky and is very unobtrusive.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)micron.net
> I have a garmin 195 and 295 which I use for X country.
> I ran the antenna wires up the front side of the roll
> bar and stuck them to the windshield. Beside cleaning
> the windshield and cups, applying lots of voodoo they
> alternately take turns falling down??? any ideas
> thanks ahead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
Earl,
That's the one... and I was told the picture was shot after they opened
a door and some of the suds/bubbles poured out.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCN44257(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: trivia question |
Greg,
All US standard rotation engines are left hand looking at the power take
off end. All non counter rotated aircraft engines are left hand looking at
the propeller. Remember the power take off end for an auto or truck faces to
the rear, tractor type airplane engines have the power take off (propeller
mount) in the front.
Karl Rigdon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Tanner" <gtanner(at)bendcable.com> |
I was considering that possibility but wasn't sure. So, only some twins have
RH roatation?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TCN44257(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: trivia question
Greg,
All US standard rotation engines are left hand looking at the power take
off end. All non counter rotated aircraft engines are left hand looking at
the propeller. Remember the power take off end for an auto or truck faces to
the rear, tractor type airplane engines have the power take off (propeller
mount) in the front.
Karl Rigdon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
Hi Brian:
I am posting this for general info to the list, flying into Canada is simply
and trouble free.
We have a "private aircraft program" for customs which requires you to call
1-888-CANPASS (1-888-226-7277) by phone at least one hour prior to landing
at one of our designated custom airports. I do this prior to take-off on my
final leg into the customs airport, a flight plan must be filed on this leg,
adding "advise customs" to the flight plan is no longer accepted as was in
the past . Land and go to the designated customs area and phone the CANPASS
number to report your arrival, there may or may not be a customs agent there
to meet you. No restricted weapons (hand guns) are allowed.
For your planned flight to Revelstoke, Kelowna is a good choice as it is
located in the Okanagan valley and is a good VFR route for north south
traffic and intersects the Trans Canada Highway at Salmon Arm and on to
Revelstoke. If it were me I would clear customs at Pentiction just south of
Kelowna, a lot less traffic. Initial contact for Penticton is 126.7 or 122.5
or 118.5. The mandatory frequency at 5 NM is 118.5.
Other Designated Custom airports along southern B.C. are Cranbrook
,Castlegar and Grand Forks. Have a good flight.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. Cowlings 6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: Flying to B.C.
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm planning a flight up to Revelstoke, B.C. next week. My passenger is
> planning to buy Homer Roger's RV-6A. For the customs check-in on the
> Canadian side, Kelowna has been recommended. Any comments or suggestions?
> I don't know which port of entry to use on the U.S. side coming back.
What
> U.S. airport has proven to be reasonably hassle-free for you Canadian
> RV'ers? I'll be taking a south to southeast heading out of Revelstoke, to
> get back home to New Mexico.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCN44257(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: trivia question |
Greg,
Yes. The right engine. You will also find that twin engine boats are
usually counter rotated.
Karl Rigdon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
rv-list
Can anybody please tell me on which drawing I might find the F-885.
The only place I found it was in the phantom parts list so far.
It advertises itself as AS3-125X2.625X3.5
I am almost positive I saw it in the drawings somewhere a while ago, but
seem unable to find it again.
Thanks in advance
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Karl & Others:
> All US standard rotation engines are left hand looking at the power take
> off end. All non counter rotated aircraft engines are left hand looking at
> the propeller. Remember the power take off end for an auto or truck faces
to
> the rear, tractor type airplane engines have the power take off (propeller
> mount) in the front.
As someone who has trouble adjusting a lawnmower I feel a little foolish
talking about engines. However, I believe that the rotaton for single
engine planes is standard for North American planes. It can be different
for Europe. Look at some WWII footage. I learned the following rule for
rotation: wrap your RIGHT hand around the engine (in your mind) with your
thumb pointing in the direction of the power shaft (prop). If it rotates in
the direction of your fingers it is a right hand engine. Otherwise, you
should have used your LEFT hand. Perhaps someone with a Russian warbird,
etc., could verify this useless tidbit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jra <j_arnold(at)swbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 04/08/01 |
Has anyone ordered the new RV7 or RV7A yet? I heard today from someone who
just visited Vans that they are planning on coming out with a 4 place in 18
months.
Jimmy Arnold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank and Linda Reed <reedpilots(at)yahoo.com> |
I dropped a ballpoint pen in my 6A. It went down on
the left side of my seat. When I got back there was
absolutely no trace of the pen anywhere in the cabin
or baggage area. The only place that I can see where
it might have gone is through the hole where the flap
lever goes through to the push rod. I pulled that
panel and it's not in there either.
Question: Anyone else ever have this problem? Did it
go out of the airplane thought he pushrod hole? I
still have not removed the access panel to the fuse
yet and I will do that before I fly it again but I
wonder if others have had a similar situation.
Frank Reed
Pelham, NH
RV-6A N89PC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | cutting painted aluminum |
Folks,
Thanks for your input on cutting my already installed & painted panel.
I knew someone else had to do the same thing. I'll probably try to cut
another piece for practice before I commit surgery on my painted panel. Also,
one lister advised me to try to use nibblers. I don't have a nibbler tool in
my box but it might be worth $14.00 to Avery tools (I've wanted them anyway).
I'll let you know how I made out...........and thanks.
Rick Gray (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm..........not Sun & Fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Frank:
The chance that the pen went out the flap rod hole is slim but possible. I
sure would hate to hear that it went out half way and jammed the flaps on
retraction. I would think that it is more likely that the pen is laying
under the baggage floor in the same bay as the flap rod hole. If you have or
had manual flaps the pen would have a natural hole through the seat bulk
head into that area. Get a flashight and a mirror so you can see around the
corners well and really check the area below the flap linkage cover.
Thanks for the heads up. I just changed to the electric flaps and there is a
fairly large hole left in the seat bulkhead. I will get covers built today
for them.
Hope this helps,
Douglas G. Murray RV-6 C-GRPA
Southern Alberta
>
> I dropped a ballpoint pen in my 6A. It went down on
> the left side of my seat. When I got back there was
> absolutely no trace of the pen anywhere in the cabin
> or baggage area. The only place that I can see where
> it might have gone is through the hole where the flap
> lever goes through to the push rod. I pulled that
> panel and it's not in there either.
> Question: Anyone else ever have this problem? Did it
> go out of the airplane thought he pushrod hole? I
> still have not removed the access panel to the fuse
> yet and I will do that before I fly it again but I
> wonder if others have had a similar situation.
> Frank Reed
> Pelham, NH
> RV-6A N89PC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Lenhardt" <jtl258(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
Here's the URL where the broadcast schedule for the series "From the Ground
Up" can be located and you can have an email reminder sent to yourself...
http://wings.discovery.com/. I'd like to see this series too if anyone can
tape it. It started yesterday, but espisode 1 will be re-aired today. See
below:
From the Ground Up - Episode 1
Take a look at the tools needed and learn some tips for getting started
while the RV-8 arrives. Get a feel for space and time constraints, and an
appreciation for the process. Also, visit another homebuilder already hard
at work in his own garage.
----
Air Time(s) Eastern/Pacific Time:
WNG Apr 8 2001 8:00 PM
WNG Apr 8 2001 11:00 PM
WNG Apr 9 2001 4:00 AM
WNG Apr 9 2001 7:00 AM
WNG Apr 9 2001 12:00 PM
WNG Apr 9 2001 3:00 PM
----
John Lenhardt
jtl258(at)home.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted aluminum |
I only saw one other response to this one on-line. Not sure if there were
just very few responses or if people just didn't want to respind on-line. If
that's the case, its too bad, I'm sure others would be interested.
My take on it is that doing this can result in an edge where the paint is
really prone to chipping, even if the sharp edge is sanded back. Probably
just my painting technique that results in that, but if yours seems that way
then perhaps some sort of adhesive carefully applied on the edge would help.
I've tried to seal such edges with paint but that doesn't seem to work. I
don't think nibblers would work too well either -- they tend to deform the
material a little which would be likely to cause the paint to separate.
My .02.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~200 hrs)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted alum. |
I just bored a hole in my finished panel using of all things a hole saw.
What a crude way to cut a hole. Worked well and I had no paint chipping
problems. Panel is painted with Dupont Centari Enamal. Next step is to
cut a rectangular hole for the map box I just recieved from Vans. I plan
on using my dremel to make the initial cuts and then a file to finish
up. An airbrush will be used to repaint the edges after the opening is
cut.
Then I gots to cut a NACA inlet on painted fuselage.
--
Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado
RV-6A N99PZ Flying
Engine: Aerosport Power O-360-A1A
Prop: Sensenich 72FM8S9-1-83
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Plecenik" <nanchang(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted aluminum |
If you haven't already cut then I'd recommend putting masking tape over the
area to be cut and using a small router type tool like "RotoZip" or the
small Dremel routing tool. Cut left to right so the cutting edge meets the
paint, on the cut line, at a lesser angle, then peel the tape starting at
the edge away from the cut toward the cut. Cover the cut edge (not the
panel) with paint to help seal the paint. Good luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RGray67968(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: cutting painted aluminum
>
> Folks,
> Thanks for your input on cutting my already installed & painted
panel.
> I knew someone else had to do the same thing. I'll probably try to cut
> another piece for practice before I commit surgery on my painted panel.
Also,
> one lister advised me to try to use nibblers. I don't have a nibbler tool
in
> my box but it might be worth $14.00 to Avery tools (I've wanted them
anyway).
> I'll let you know how I made out...........and thanks.
> Rick Gray (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm..........not Sun & Fun
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV8bldr" <RV8bldr(at)email.msn.com> |
Frank:
Back in my airline mechanic days, if a tool or other item was dropped down
an inaccessible area we would start tapping the outside of where we thought
it might be. If it is laying loose, you may hear it bouncing around where
you tap. If you don't find it this way, it's either wedged in a crevice or
fallen out of the airplane. It could also be sitting on top of a structure
too rigid for the tapping trick to work. Then you need to use a mirror, or
borrow one of those flexible fiber-optic borescopes and convince yourself
that it's NOT in your airplane somewhere.
Good Luck,
Russ Christopher
A&P
RV-8 Emp.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank and Linda
> Reed
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 4:04 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Lost pen!
>
>
> I dropped a ballpoint pen in my 6A. It went down on
> the left side of my seat. When I got back there was
> absolutely no trace of the pen anywhere in the cabin
> or baggage area. The only place that I can see where
> it might have gone is through the hole where the flap
> lever goes through to the push rod. I pulled that
> panel and it's not in there either.
> Question: Anyone else ever have this problem? Did it
> go out of the airplane thought he pushrod hole? I
> still have not removed the access panel to the fuse
> yet and I will do that before I fly it again but I
> wonder if others have had a similar situation.
> Frank Reed
> Pelham, NH
> RV-6A N89PC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler quagmire |
HELP! Im stuck in "on hold" and "voice mail" hell. The problem is as follows:
I have a late model O-320D2J. The oil cooler mounts right on the case in
front of cyl #2. I called Dick Waters, he had one sitting on the floor and
gave me the Harrison part #8526250. ACS catalog says this matches S/W 8406R.
A friendly salesman sold me a Positech #4211 which is supposed to match S/W
8406R. The Positech I wound up with does not fit on the engine, it is set up
for pipe fittings. No one at ACS can tell me if the S/W will fit either. I
gave them the engine model # and the model of bird it came out of, and they
cant say for sure which one I need. They gave me a number to call Stewart
warner, The rep I spoke to there didnt know either.
So anyone out there know?
Any avice would be treasured immensely
Kevin -9A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted aluminum |
I do this sort of thing all the time with paint and material far more damage
susceptible than what we use on our panels. Use a razor knife to cut the
outline on your panel. Use a straight edge to steady the knife...and make
sure your blade goes down to metal (cutting completely through the paint).
Then use whatever tool you want to cut the aluminum (dremel sounds best to
me, but use whatever you're comfortable with). Use the razor knife mark as
a guide and do not cross it with the cut. As long as you stay on the proper
side of the knife line, you won't chip the paint. Keep that dremel speed
UP, as you don't want to the blade to catch. Piece of cake. Now, come and
hang my flaps for me. :-)
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Confused Once Again... |
Once again I submit to the listers to help eliminate my confusion.....
Im attaching my flaps to my wing (RV6A/QB) and have 2 questions...
1. By looking at plans #21 it does show that the flaps hang past the end
of the wing somewhat....but my flaps hang about 2 5/8in past the end of the
wing. I have measured, measured, and measured and I still don't see how the
flap could possibly not interfere with the fuselage. Even cutting the flap
back a bit when finishing would not be enough, and the last rib and the flap
actuator mount would have to me moved outboard to make it work. All other
measurements are good, aileron is installed where it is supposed to be, flap
came prebuilt for the most part, but all the measurements check out ok. I
tired to look ahead to the attaching the wing section and it didn't really
didn't explain much to me on how this all goes together in the end. Even
looking at drawings 40, 42, and 46 didn't clear it up. Does anyone have a
picture showing how the flap is finally attached to the actuator....and maybe
clear up why my flap has to stick out so much?
Second Question (as if one wasn't enough) My aileron push tube, going
from belcrank to aileron (A-607) bracket, bumps up against my flap on the
inside. I measured everything several times again and it all checks out.
The spacer is on the outboard side, as depicted on plans #21. I don't want
to trim the flaps. Is it ok to relocate the spacer to the other side to
eliminate this interference?
Thanks again,
Kurt "going through life on a low budget land grant college education"
Klewin
OKC, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler quagmire |
>
>
>HELP! Im stuck in "on hold" and "voice mail" hell. The problem is as
>follows:
>I have a late model O-320D2J. The oil cooler mounts right on the case in
>front of cyl #2. I called Dick Waters, he had one sitting on the floor and
>gave me the Harrison part #8526250. ACS catalog says this matches S/W
>8406R.
>A friendly salesman sold me a Positech #4211 which is supposed to match S/W
>8406R. The Positech I wound up with does not fit on the engine, it is set
>up
>for pipe fittings. No one at ACS can tell me if the S/W will fit either. I
>gave them the engine model # and the model of bird it came out of, and they
>cant say for sure which one I need. They gave me a number to call Stewart
>warner, The rep I spoke to there didnt know either.
>So anyone out there know?
>Any avice would be treasured immensely
>Kevin -9A finishing
>
Kevin,
I don't have an exact answer, but I'm sure Pacific Oil Cooler service could
be of some help. They deal with coolers full time and if you just gave them
some dimensional info they should be able to steer you in the right
direction. Here is the URL: http://www.oilcoolers.com/
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
185 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused Once Again... |
> Im attaching my flaps to my wing (RV6A/QB) and have 2 questions...
You are not ready to do this yet, Kurt. Attach the wings to the fuselage
first.
Hal Kempthorne
RV6a N7HK (Valentine) FLYING
>
> 1. By looking at plans #21 it does show that the flaps hang past the
end
> of the wing somewhat....but my flaps hang about 2 5/8in past the end of
the
> wing. I have measured, measured, and measured and I still don't see how
the
> flap could possibly not interfere with the fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused Once Again... |
KAKlewin(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Once again I submit to the listers to help eliminate my confusion.....
>
> Im attaching my flaps to my wing (RV6A/QB) and have 2 questions...
>
> 1. By looking at plans #21 it does show that the flaps hang past the end
> of the wing somewhat....but my flaps hang about 2 5/8in past the end of the
> wing. I have measured, measured, and measured and I still don't see how the
> flap could possibly not interfere with the fuselage. Even cutting the flap
> back a bit when finishing would not be enough, and the last rib and the flap
> actuator mount would have to me moved outboard to make it work. All other
> measurements are good, aileron is installed where it is supposed to be, flap
> came prebuilt for the most part, but all the measurements check out ok. I
> tired to look ahead to the attaching the wing section and it didn't really
> didn't explain much to me on how this all goes together in the end. Even
> looking at drawings 40, 42, and 46 didn't clear it up. Does anyone have a
> picture showing how the flap is finally attached to the actuator....and maybe
> clear up why my flap has to stick out so much?
The top skin of the flap will get trimmed when the wing/flap is fitted to the
fuselage. The bottom skin overlaps the fuselage belly to cover up the actuator
rod hole while in flight. While there have been cases of the plate on the end of
the flap hitting the fuselage this is not the norm. Fit the flaps to the wing
and worry about the rest when you get the wings on the fuselage.
>
>
> Second Question (as if one wasn't enough) My aileron push tube, going
> from belcrank to aileron (A-607) bracket, bumps up against my flap on the
> inside. I measured everything several times again and it all checks out.
> The spacer is on the outboard side, as depicted on plans #21. I don't want
> to trim the flaps. Is it ok to relocate the spacer to the other side to
> eliminate this interference?
This is discussed a bunch in the archives. Trim the offending area of the flap
to clear the pushrod and all we be well. I guess you could move the spacer to
the other side with no ill effects but for a larger hole in the rear spar.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
I'd be worried about the whereabouts of this object until I was certain it
could not jam a control. Makes me feel a bit uneasy about flying, as I now
do, without joystick boots. If some large, hard object wedged itself in that
hole, it could be a major problem. One of the Cub Scouts I took flying
Saturday had an instamatic camera in his lap; about the right size to drop
through the seat pan... hmmm, maybe I'll go fix this right away!
-Bill B
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6 Kit for sale |
| From: | Mike.Ward(at)co.hennepin.mn.us |
04/09/2001 01:39:51 PM
Price: $2950 or best offer
Empennage: 95% Complete
Wings: 75% Complete
Videos:
Orndorff Construction Videos
Empennage Construction (parts 1 and 2)
Wing Construction (parts 1 and 2)
Fuselage Construction (parts 1, 2 and 3)
Pictures: http://www.peaknet.net/~mward/rv6/images.html
Why I am selling it.
I purchased the kit wanting to build a plane that would give me both
performance and affordability. As a low time VRF pilot I have become
frustrated
with renting planes that were either poorly maintained, cost too much, or
not
available. After considerable thought I intended to spend around 5 hours a
week
building the RV. However I failed to understand the implications of having
another child. Now with two children, I have no time and do not foresee
having
any time in the next 10 to 15 years. So instead of having the money tied up
in
the parts and sitting in the garage just waiting to be dinged by children
or
friends, I have decided to sell. Some day I hope to build an RV, it's just
not
practical at this point.
I purchased the kit from a builder in Dallas, Texas. He already was
building
two other planes and realized he just didn't have the time to commit to
another
plane. I purchased the kit from him in August of 2000 and drove it to
Minneapolis in a Ryder rental. I unloaded the parts and made a jig to hold
the
wings. However that is the extent of my work.
Location:
Lakeville, Minnesota (20 miles from downtown Minneapolis)
Contact Information:
Phone:
612-347-4094 (work)
952-953-6116 (home)
612-600-6116 (mobile) Email:
mike.ward(at)co.hennepin.mn.us (primary)
mward(at)peaknet.net (secondary)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Yes, I had such a problem with a small 3/8ths inch wrench...I lost it during
later stages of construction and looked all over for a long time. Finally
decided someone walked off with it. I was afraid it was in a dangerous place
in the plane, but after exhausting all ideas I gave up.
A year or so after it was flying, I was doing something under the instrument
panel and dropped a screw or nut or something. While using a mirror and
flashlight to find the thing I saw something shinny was under the wind spar
between the floor and the bottom of the spar....I fished out my wrench no
worse for the wear.
Its got to be someplace!
RV6A Flying Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Missing Aircraft in Arkansas |
Geees, last year Bill and Jeremy Benedict crashed here during bad weather.
This year another aircraft is missing in Central Arkansas during bad weather.
The plane was on the the way to Sun and Fun and presently is being searched
for. The reports here (TV) are that the flight originated from somewhere in
Kansas. IF this is an RV, I will post more info as I receive it-if not, this
will be last post. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM |
I have a few places that are sunked more around my dimpled holes than the
rest of my dimpled holes. I am using a c-frame tool. I am trying to use the
same amount of force (wooden mallet) which is impossibe. I am doing my best
to keep skins level(using a self made dimpling table). Any suggestions as how
to remove these and too keep from happening again?
Ideas to the cause? Specificly I am referring to tank skins. I had a couple
of these on my H Stab and Bob Avery suggested using a wooden dial pen and
lightly hammer the shop rivet. It worked fine but with the pro seal and with
not much space to do this proceedure. I am listening. Thanks Guys, Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)involved.com (Richard Scott) |
Could you have smoeone push the tail down while you listen for it
sliding/rolling? Obviously this would move it, perhaps to a more
inaccessible location, so the first thing would be to search as carefully
and thoroughly as possible.
Dick Scott
6A, starting
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank and Linda
Reed
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 4:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lost pen!
I dropped a ballpoint pen in my 6A. It went down on
the left side of my seat. When I got back there was
absolutely no trace of the pen anywhere in the cabin
or baggage area. The only place that I can see where
it might have gone is through the hole where the flap
lever goes through to the push rod. I pulled that
panel and it's not in there either.
Question: Anyone else ever have this problem? Did it
go out of the airplane thought he pushrod hole? I
still have not removed the access panel to the fuse
yet and I will do that before I fly it again but I
wonder if others have had a similar situation.
Frank Reed
Pelham, NH
RV-6A N89PC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Use a heavier hammer. It's real tough to dimple too hard. I use two
light-moderate taps with a small 2 lb sledge. Real noisy! IMO, if you
don't see a consistant circle around the dimple, where the dies have
bottomed out, you are not doing it hard enough.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:54 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: dimple question
>
>
> I have a few places that are sunked more around my dimpled holes than the
> rest of my dimpled holes. I am using a c-frame tool. I am trying
> to use the
> same amount of force (wooden mallet) which is impossibe. I am
> doing my best
> to keep skins level(using a self made dimpling table). Any
> suggestions as how
> to remove these and too keep from happening again?
> Ideas to the cause? Specificly I am referring to tank skins. I
> had a couple
> of these on my H Stab and Bob Avery suggested using a wooden dial pen and
> lightly hammer the shop rivet. It worked fine but with the pro
> seal and with
> not much space to do this proceedure. I am listening. Thanks Guys, Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dimple question |
| From: | james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
on 4/9/01 6:54 PM, Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM at Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I have a few places that are sunked more around my dimpled holes than the
> rest of my dimpled holes. I am using a c-frame tool. I am trying to use the
> same amount of force (wooden mallet) which is impossibe. I am doing my best
> to keep skins level(using a self made dimpling table). Any suggestions as how
> to remove these and too keep from happening again?
> Ideas to the cause? Specificly I am referring to tank skins. I had a couple
> of these on my H Stab and Bob Avery suggested using a wooden dial pen and
> lightly hammer the shop rivet. It worked fine but with the pro seal and with
> not much space to do this proceedure. I am listening. Thanks Guys, Bob
>
Bob-
It's hard to say without handling the part, but I suspect your problem may
be insufficient force rather than too much.
Early on in my project, a friend who makes his living doing sheet metal work
on warbird$ looked at my horizontal stab which was clecoed together for
final riveting. He remarked that all my dimples were a little too lightly
done. Although they looked fine to me (and a -bunch- of other guys), I
respected his advice and redid the skins--he was right. When I struck the
dimples harder, the surrounding skin flattened significantly as the dimple
became crisper.
I think that a lot of the subtle distortion around rivets in final assembly
can be attributed to under dimpling. It's possible to help this a little
after the fact by back riveting, or light tapping on the shop head, but it's
easier to start with a good dimple.
I think that, within reason, it's not possible to over dimple unless you
have crummy dies.
Anyway, try going back over a few hole and really let them have it. Works
for me...
James Freeman
RV8QB Fuse
Yeah, I know the QB stands for quick build, What's your point ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Are Barstad" <abarstad(at)bconnex.net> |
| Subject: | Sealing the Fuel Cap |
I _thought_ my tank had passed the leak test many times but found that air
leaked out after a few more hours. I did everything possible to stop leakage
at the baloon seal and the fuel cap. The baloon seal was taken care of by
smearing a bit of grease on the threads of the fuel pick-up 'outlet'.
The fuel cap was another story. It drove me nuts! I tried duck tape with
seran wrap, fuel lube on the rubber seal and many other things. Finally (I'm
proud of this), I took a new baloon, stuck it into the filler cap and blew
it up while it was half-way through the hole. This sealed it perfectly and I
was able to test my tank.
I have a small leak through the center conductor of the Amphenol BNC
connector though. I can't quite figure this out since I used much pro-seal
on the connector and wire. I thought the solder itself would have stopped
leakage here. I think it must come through the wire from the inboard
capacitive sender plate. In any event, I think I can fix this without too
much hassle...
Are
RV-8 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Edge distance problem |
After drilling my top flap skin, I discovered that the E.D. on the top of the flap
spar is no too short. The following is true:
1. The ribs were drilled and riveted to the bottom flap skin per plans.
2. The spar was butted up against, drilled and clecoed to the ribs per plans.
3. The spacing between the bottom wing skin and bottom flap skin is 1/4" per plans
4. The distance between the hinge pin line and the flap trailing edge is correct
per plans.
AND THE DOGGONE PRE-PUNCHED SKIN HOLES STILL DIDN'T END UP ON THE SPAR IN THE RIGHT
PLACE!
My idea for a fix is to rivet a strip to the bottom edge of the spar flange to
extend the width of the flange. I will rivet another (narrower) strip to the top
of the first strip to make the extended flange surface flush. The shop heads
of the rivets will then be on the new piece of material with proper E.D.
Thanks in advance for any comments on my proposed fix.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <Emrath(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple question |
I purchased a 2 LB dead blow from Harbor Freight, on sale for about $6.
Works great, is relatively quiet, but I still where ear protection. Works
well for me.
Marty in Brentwood TN, finished dimpling all the fuselage skins! What a lot
of holes, and to think I still have to rivet these up.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: dimple question
>
> Use a heavier hammer. It's real tough to dimple too hard. I use two
> light-moderate taps with a small 2 lb sledge. Real noisy! IMO, if you
> don't see a consistant circle around the dimple, where the dies have
> bottomed out, you are not doing it hard enough.
>
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 fuse
> Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> Web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobpaulo(at)AOL.COM
> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:54 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: dimple question
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a few places that are sunked more around my dimpled holes than
the
> > rest of my dimpled holes. I am using a c-frame tool. I am trying
> > to use the
> > same amount of force (wooden mallet) which is impossibe. I am
> > doing my best
> > to keep skins level(using a self made dimpling table). Any
> > suggestions as how
> > to remove these and too keep from happening again?
> > Ideas to the cause? Specificly I am referring to tank skins. I
> > had a couple
> > of these on my H Stab and Bob Avery suggested using a wooden dial pen
and
> > lightly hammer the shop rivet. It worked fine but with the pro
> > seal and with
> > not much space to do this proceedure. I am listening. Thanks Guys, Bob
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | removing powdercoating |
a quick way to remove PC is to put it back into the oven, turn up the
temperature and cook the coating off. This is the method many powder
coating places use.
Ralph Bookout, 6 finishing
Visalia, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Quagmire |
Just for the sake of my first post undoubtedly going into the archives, I
received some misinformation from my mechanic. My oil cooler does not mount
directly on the case, no lycoming engines sport this feature, they are all
remotely mounted via hoses off of the accessory case. Problem solved: There
was no problem to begin with other than a mis understanding.
Kevin -9A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Stewart <bruces(at)shoalhaven.net.au> |
Hi All,
I'm after all the relevant tools to build a 3,
in particular a rivet gun (2x), hand riveter,
micro stop cs, clecos plus pliers etc etc
you probably all know the score.
Thanks
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Francis Malczynski <ebafm(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Line Clamps |
I'm just about finished plumbing up my engine and I'm looking for a primer line
clamp that I heard about that goes around the induction tubes and has a dimple
or indentation on it that pefectly clamps an 1/8 in. primer line against the
induction tubes. I've searched the archives and cannot find anything that references
these.
Has anyone done this and if you have do you have a part number and source where
I can get a couple of these?
I'm running an 0360-A2A
Thanks
Fran Malczynski
RV6 - N594EF (finishing)
Olcott, NY
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
I sure would like to see it also, but alas, it's not in my Michigan area
either. If anyone would tape the series, I would be interested if obtaining
it.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
All of the EAA programs that have been broadcast have also been produced on
VHS
for sale in the EAA publications catalog. I suspect this series will also be
available for purchase
after the segments have aired.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PGLong(at)AOL.COM [SMTP:PGLong(at)AOL.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:10 AM
> To: rv6-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series
>
>
> I sure would like to see it also, but alas, it's not in my Michigan area
> either. If anyone would tape the series, I would be interested if
> obtaining
> it.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
It's not on the Rockford ILL. cable.What I would like is to buy this
series with the commericals taken out .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
Hi John,
I am building a RV8 here in Germany. I am quite interested in that broadcast,
but cannot afford to travel to the States to see it.
Do you have any idea where I could get the tape from?
Stephan Servatius
romeo.victor@t-online.de
John Lenhardt schrieb:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "John Lenhardt"
>
> Here's the URL where the broadcast schedule for the series "From the Ground
> Up" can be located and you can have an email reminder sent to yourself...
> http://wings.discovery.com/. I'd like to see this series too if anyone can
> tape it. It started yesterday, but espisode 1 will be re-aired today. See
> below:
>
> >From the Ground Up - Episode 1
>
> Take a look at the tools needed and learn some tips for getting started
> while the RV-8 arrives. Get a feel for space and time constraints, and an
> appreciation for the process. Also, visit another homebuilder already hard
> at work in his own garage.
>
> ----
> Air Time(s) Eastern/Pacific Time:
> WNG Apr 8 2001 8:00 PM
> WNG Apr 8 2001 11:00 PM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 4:00 AM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 7:00 AM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 12:00 PM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 3:00 PM
> ----
>
> John Lenhardt
> jtl258(at)home.com
>
>
Stephan Servatius
Untere Hauptstr. 3
85461 Bockhorn
Germany
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | could this be vapor lock? |
Well, it figures my wonderful RV would pick the week of SNF to act up, but
maybe those of us left on the list this week can figure this out. As the
title suggests, I think I already know at least part of the answer.
Here's the story: O-320 RV-6A with 170 hrs, and 15 hrs with the 8.5:1
pistons in the O-320. Burning Premium mogas in cruise, 100LL on takeoff and
landing and ground ops. Fire sleeve on the fuel lines FWF. Van's corrugated
loom tubing for blast air from rear baffle to homemade shroud over the
engine-driven fuel pump. Fuel filter in the cockpit; no gascolator. No
exhaust wraps or heat shields. No vapor return lines. Oil temps
historically in the 150-180 degree range before the 160hp upgrade, but on the
fateful day (last Saturday) OAT was 84F and Oil was at 205 F in cruise.
Hazy, humid day, with lots of bumps from 10-20 kt winds over the mountains.
Not the best day for Eagle Flight rides, but the Cub Scouts have shown up and
I am willing to brave it if they are. No ground op problems noted, but about
5 minutes into the second flight, just as I reduce power to circle lower over
the lake, the Lycoming stumbles twice; the deceleration is pronounced, the
pucker factor is high. The mixture goes full rich, the throttle open, the
carb heat out by reflex; I turn on the boost pump and swithch back to the
avgas tank, turn back toward home and claw for altitude at 105 IAS; no place
to land down there but thousands of acres of national forest and that little
lake teeming with fishermen. The hiccups lasted but maybe three seconds of
up and down rpm's but even so, I continue toward the home strip. Within a
minute I know I have the field made. Landing is uneventful. My mind is
racing through the list of possibilities. I reacted so fast, there was no
time to troubleshoot.
My first thought, as it was happening, was this must be a "rich cut" from the
carb being agitated in all this chop, but, hey, I've flown in much worse and
it has never done this. Only in a very bouncy landing has the plane ever
sputtered and trailed black smoke... Later, I reasoned it must be carb ice,
since it is so hazy and I had just reduced power (from 22 to 17 inches MAP)
without first using carb heat. I cannot recall whether 84F is too warm for
ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT. Maybe the change of tanks
helped, but a check on the ground shows neither tank vent is plugged. I
admit that vapor lock did not occur to me until a long while after, since it
occurred in flight and not on the ground, despite the quick turn-arounds I
was doing to fly pax after pax.
Later in the day, as I cut power in the pattern to land at a friend's strip,
"IT" happened again. This time, I was a bit more prepared and more aware of
the events leading up to the sudden roughness. Tanks had been switched about
10 seconds before the power reduction, probably not enough time to clear the
lines of mogas. The air was calm this time; so much for the jostled carb
float theory. I quickly cycled the mags; the engine (which had recovered by
now at full throttle) ran fine on either magneto. I did not notice what my
EIS fuel pressure readout said, but I didn't get a caution light. The carb
heat had seemed to have no immediate effect, but I wasn't waiting around at
half power to see what it would do. Once again, I put it in get-home-NOW
mode and had an uneventful pattern and landing. All told, this sudden
roughness happened once each on three of five short flights I made that day.
I put the plane away and haven't gone back since; the last time really
started to shake my confidence. Now I want to fix it and face my fears
(hopefully in that order).
As I reflect back on last Saturday's flying, I wonder what was different that
might be a clue. It was the first warm day I've flown since the piston mod 3
months ago. My EGT's are lower and CHT's slightly higher than they were with
the 150 hp pistons. Oil temps were 25 degrees higher that day than all
winter. Under-cowl temps were certainly higher given the above. Mogas was
purchased last month and filtered and handled as per my routine of the last
three years. This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane premium
mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous experience with
87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock symptoms.
The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I experienced
hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude airport. Never have
I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for several
years.
So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power trigger it
somehow?
Discussion most welcome. After reading 125 entries from the archives on
vapor lock, I specially hope to hear from Check Six Mark, who said, "Now 100%
winter blend on a 85F day will cause a big pucker factor, even in cruise! ...
My wife demands 100LL in both tanks before she rides with me..." and from
Gary Sobek, whose opinion of exhaust wraps seems to differ strongly from that
of Larry Vetterman, who made my exhaust system...
Gentlemen: help, please?
Bill Boyd
considering one of those Hodges volatility testers, as I transfer this batch
of mogas from the plane to the car!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James D. Ivey" <jim(at)iveylaw.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
I don't get Discovery Wings either. I'm watching for the series to
eventually be available at the Discovery Channel's online store:
http://shopping.discovery.com/
They have most of their content available on tape/DVD -- eventually.
Regards,
Jim Ivey
jim(at)iveylaw.com
Oakland, California
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I am building a RV8 here in Germany. I am quite interested in
> that broadcast,
> but cannot afford to travel to the States to see it.
>
> Do you have any idea where I could get the tape from?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealing the Fuel Cap |
In a message dated 4/9/01 6:39:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
abarstad(at)bconnex.net writes:
>
> The fuel cap was another story. It drove me nuts! I tried duck tape with
> seran wrap, fuel lube on the rubber seal and many other things. Finally (I'm
> proud of this), I took a new baloon, stuck it into the filler cap and blew
> it up while it was half-way through the hole. This sealed it perfectly and I
> was able to test my tank.
>
>
Excellent idea! Good thinking Are.
Fred LaForge RV-4 180 CS EAA tech counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? |
I removed most of the original message. My comments are interspersed.
First, congratulations on doing a good job handling the problem. Sounds
like your immediate response worked very well. I'm not qualified to
comment on whether you had a vapour lock problem or not, but my gut feel is
that it is a likely cause.
>I cannot recall whether 84F is too warm for
>ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT.
Have a look at the chart part way into this large page:
http://www.faa.gov/ats/afss/newyork/ENROUTE.htm
Note that the temperatures are in deg C. 84 deg F = about 29 deg C. So,
carb ice at low power at 84 deg F is possible, at a very narrow range of
dewpoints. I suspect this curve was based on tests on engines burning
avgas. The results might be a bit different on engines burning mogas. I
think the greater volatility of mogas could lead to more cooling in the
carburetor, and greater likelihood of carb ice. Maybe. This is just
speculation.
>This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane premium
>mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous experience with
>87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock symptoms.
>The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I experienced
>hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude airport. Never have
>I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for several
>years.
>
Premium gas has got quite a different mix of stock than regular gas I
believe, so it may very well have different vapour pressure vs temperature
characteristics.
>So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power trigger it
>somehow?
Just speculation here - you've got a temperature balance in the fuel system
ahead of the firewall. There is heat coming into the system from the
engine. There is cool gas coming in from the gas tank. If you pull back
the power, there is suddenly much less fuel flow, so there is less cool gas
coming in. The temperature of the gas ahead of the firewall would start to
climb quite quickly. If it was on the ragged edge of boiling before, this
could be enough to cause vapour lock. Maybe.
You've probably already decided this, but I would fly with just avgas for
awhile, to see how the engine behaves. Then, maybe I would start to play
around with the mogas, but only when in a good position to handle an engine
failure.
Good luck,
Keep us posted,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <flyhars(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | could this be vapor lock? |
Bill: I don't want to influence your thinking on
the use of auto gas, but I had a similar experience with a Midget Mustang I
had years ago. It was a 90degree day I had been mixing the auto fuel
and 100LL. I departed to an airport to add about 10 gallons of
mogas. After adding the mogas I departed the airport for my home
airport. The engine ran up just fine, but on take about halfway down the
runway the engine began to run rough. I aborted the takeoff, running the
engine after the abort it ran just fine. I did not feel good about the
fuel, as we had been having trouble at my airport with mogas in the Cherokees
based there. I drained some fuel about 3 gallons, I noticed the fuel felt
warn and cool as it was drained. After waiting about an hour I departed
again for my home airport with no problem. When I arrived at my airport
which took about 10 minutes, as I placed the mixture to rich, the engine began
to run rough and by pulling the mixture back to lean I was able to keep the
engine running. During this process I noticed the fuel pressure fluctuated
quite a bit. After landing I drained all the fuel out and filled the tank
with 100 LL, no more problems. My engine was an 0-320, 150 HP low
compression pistons, Hartzell prop. It had a cover around the engine fuel pump
with a air blast tube. Now more Mogas for me, after having much discussion here
at my airport, it appeared I had several problems, it looked like the float
might have sunk, and also vapor lock I had minor trouble before on takeoff
but it would always clear up about the time I got airborne.
My view only, hope this helps.
Harvey Sigmon - RV-6AQB Ready for
flight Do not
archive
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 4/10/2001 1:02:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: could this be vapor
lock?
-- RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Well, it figures my wonderful RV would pick the week of SNF to act up, but
maybe those of us left on the list this week can figure this
out. As the
title suggests, I think I already know at least part of the answer.
Here's the story: O-320 RV-6A with 170 hrs, and 15 hrs with the
8.5:1
pistons in the O-320. Burning Premium mogas in cruise, 100LL on
takeoff and
landing and ground ops. Fire sleeve on the fuel lines
FWF. Van's corrugated
loom tubing for blast air from rear baffle to homemade shroud over the
engine-driven fuel pump. Fuel filter in the cockpit; no
gascolator. No
exhaust wraps or heat shields. No vapor return
lines. Oil temps
historically in the 150-180 degree range before the 160hp upgrade, but on
the
fateful day (last Saturday) OAT was 84F and Oil was at 205 F in
cruise.
Hazy, humid day, with lots of bumps from 10-20 kt winds over the
mountains.
Not the best day for Eagle Flight rides, but the Cub Scouts have shown up
and
I am willing to brave it if they are. No ground op problems
noted, but about
5 minutes into the second flight, just as I reduce power to circle lower
over
the lake, the Lycoming stumbles twice; the deceleration is pronounced, the
pucker factor is high. The mixture goes full rich, the throttle
open, the
carb heat out by reflex; I turn on the boost pump and swithch back to the
avgas tank, turn back toward home and claw for altitude at 105 IAS; no
place
to land down there but thousands of acres of national forest and that
little
lake teeming with fishermen. The hiccups lasted but maybe three
seconds of
up and down rpm's but even so, I continue toward the home
strip. Within a
minute I know I have the field made. Landing is
uneventful. My mind is
racing through the list of possibilities. I reacted so fast,
there was no
time to troubleshoot.
My first thought, as it was happening, was this must be a "rich cut" from
the
carb being agitated in all this chop, but, hey, I've flown in much worse
and
it has never done this. Only in a very bouncy landing has the
plane ever
sputtered and trailed black smoke... Later, I reasoned it must
be carb ice,
since it is so hazy and I had just reduced power (from 22 to 17 inches MAP)
without first using carb heat. I cannot recall whether 84F is
too warm for
ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT. Maybe the change of
tanks
helped, but a check on the ground shows neither tank vent is
plugged. I
admit that vapor lock did not occur to me until a long while after, since
it
occurred in flight and not on the ground, despite the quick turn-arounds I
was doing to fly pax after pax.
Later in the day, as I cut power in the pattern to land at a friend's
strip,
"IT" happened again. This time, I was a bit more prepared and
more aware of
the events leading up to the sudden roughness. Tanks had been
switched about
10 seconds before the power reduction, probably not enough time to clear
the
lines of mogas. The air was calm this time; so much for the
jostled carb
float theory. I quickly cycled the mags; the engine (which had
recovered by
now at full throttle) ran fine on either magneto. I did not
notice what my
EIS fuel pressure readout said, but I didn't get a caution
light. The carb
heat had seemed to have no immediate effect, but I wasn't waiting around at
half power to see what it would do. Once again, I put it in
get-home-NOW
mode and had an uneventful pattern and landing. All told, this
sudden
roughness happened once each on three of five short flights I made that
day.
I put the plane away and haven't gone back since; the last time really
started to shake my confidence. Now I want to fix it and face my
fears
(hopefully in that order).
As I reflect back on last Saturday's flying, I wonder what was different
that
might be a clue. It was the first warm day I've flown since the
piston mod 3
months ago. My EGT's are lower and CHT's slightly higher than
they were with
the 150 hp pistons. Oil temps were 25 degrees higher that day
than all
winter. Under-cowl temps were certainly higher given the
above. Mogas was
purchased last month and filtered and handled as per my routine of the last
three years. This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane
premium
mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous
experience with
87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock
symptoms.
The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I experienced
hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude
airport. Never have
I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for
several
years.
So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power
trigger it
somehow?
Discussion most welcome. After reading 125 entries from the
archives on
vapor lock, I specially hope to hear from Check Six Mark, who said, "Now
100%
winter blend on a 85F day will cause a big pucker factor, even in cruise!
...
My wife demands 100LL in both tanks before she rides with me..." and from
Gary Sobek, whose opinion of exhaust wraps seems to differ strongly from
that
of Larry Vetterman, who made my exhaust system...
Gentlemen: help, please?
Bill Boyd
considering one of those Hodges volatility testers, as I transfer this
batch
of mogas from the plane to the car!
http://www.matronics.com/order
--- Harvey Sigmon
--- flyhars(at)earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? - correction |
Arrgh!! I looked for this web page for 15 minutes, only to find the link
on my RV Links page. I've changed the info on carb ice to reflect this
page, which seems to have a better pedigree than the info on the original
page I quoted.
I removed most of the original message. My comments are interspersed.
First, congratulations on doing a good job handling the problem. Sounds
like your immediate response worked very well. I'm not qualified to
comment on whether you had a vapour lock problem or not, but my gut feel is
that it is a likely cause.
>I cannot recall whether 84F is too warm for
>ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT.
Have a look at this chart:
http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm
Carb ice at low power at 84 deg F is possible, at a range of dewpoints. I
suspect this curve was based on tests on engines burning avgas. The
results might be a bit different on engines burning mogas. I think the
greater volatility of mogas could lead to more cooling in the carburetor,
and greater likelihood of carb ice. Maybe. This is just speculation.
>This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane premium
>mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous experience with
>87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock symptoms.
>The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I experienced
>hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude airport. Never have
>I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for several
>years.
Premium gas has got quite a different mix of stock than regular gas I
believe, so it may very well have different vapour pressure vs temperature
characteristics.
>So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power trigger it
>somehow?
Just speculation here - you've got a temperature balance in the fuel system
ahead of the firewall. There is heat coming into the system from the
engine. There is cool gas coming in from the gas tank. If you pull back
the power, there is suddenly much less fuel flow, so there is less cool gas
coming in. The temperature of the gas ahead of the firewall would start to
climb quite quickly. If it was on the ragged edge of boiling before, this
could be enough to cause vapour lock. Maybe.
You've probably already decided this, but I would fly with just avgas for
awhile, to see how the engine behaves. Then, maybe I would start to play
around with the mogas, but only when in a good position to handle an engine
failure.
Good luck,
Keep us posted,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | could this be vapor lock? |
I wouldn't rule out carb ice, I've experienced it in 85+ deg weather along
the Gulf coast near Houston. It was an A65, not a Lyc, but I didn't think it
was possible until then. Also, why not fly with 100LL only for awhile to
eliminate one variable? Any chance of a slug of water in the carb bowl?
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) getting real close...
>
> Well, it figures my wonderful RV would pick the week of SNF
> Gentlemen: help, please?
>
> Bill Boyd
> considering one of those Hodges volatility testers, as I
> transfer this batch
> of mogas from the plane to the car!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? |
--- SportAV8R(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
> Well, it figures my wonderful RV would pick the week of SNF to act
> up, but
> maybe those of us left on the list this week can figure this out. As
> the
> title suggests, I think I already know at least part of the answer.
>
> Here's the story: O-320 RV-6A with 170 hrs, and 15 hrs with the
> 8.5:1
> pistons in the O-320. Burning Premium mogas in cruise, 100LL on
> takeoff and
> landing and ground ops. Fire sleeve on the fuel lines FWF. Van's
> corrugated
> loom tubing for blast air from rear baffle to homemade shroud over
> the
> engine-driven fuel pump. Fuel filter in the cockpit; no gascolator.
> No
> exhaust wraps or heat shields. No vapor return lines. Oil temps
> historically in the 150-180 degree range before the 160hp upgrade,
> but on the
> fateful day (last Saturday) OAT was 84F and Oil was at 205 F in
> cruise.
> Hazy, humid day, with lots of bumps from 10-20 kt winds over the
> mountains.
> Not the best day for Eagle Flight rides, but the Cub Scouts have
> shown up and
> I am willing to brave it if they are. No ground op problems noted,
> but about
> 5 minutes into the second flight, just as I reduce power to circle
> lower over
> the lake, the Lycoming stumbles twice; the deceleration is
> pronounced, the
> pucker factor is high. The mixture goes full rich, the throttle
> open, the
> carb heat out by reflex; I turn on the boost pump and swithch back to
> the
> avgas tank, turn back toward home and claw for altitude at 105 IAS;
> no place
> to land down there but thousands of acres of national forest and that
> little
> lake teeming with fishermen. The hiccups lasted but maybe three
> seconds of
> up and down rpm's but even so, I continue toward the home strip.
> Within a
> minute I know I have the field made. Landing is uneventful. My mind
> is
> racing through the list of possibilities. I reacted so fast, there
> was no
> time to troubleshoot.
>
> My first thought, as it was happening, was this must be a "rich cut"
> from the
> carb being agitated in all this chop, but, hey, I've flown in much
> worse and
> it has never done this. Only in a very bouncy landing has the plane
> ever
> sputtered and trailed black smoke... Later, I reasoned it must be
> carb ice,
> since it is so hazy and I had just reduced power (from 22 to 17
> inches MAP)
> without first using carb heat. I cannot recall whether 84F is too
> warm for
> ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT. Maybe the change of
> tanks
> helped, but a check on the ground shows neither tank vent is plugged.
> I
> admit that vapor lock did not occur to me until a long while after,
> since it
> occurred in flight and not on the ground, despite the quick
> turn-arounds I
> was doing to fly pax after pax.
>
> Later in the day, as I cut power in the pattern to land at a friend's
> strip,
> "IT" happened again. This time, I was a bit more prepared and more
> aware of
> the events leading up to the sudden roughness. Tanks had been
> switched about
> 10 seconds before the power reduction, probably not enough time to
> clear the
> lines of mogas. The air was calm this time; so much for the jostled
> carb
> float theory. I quickly cycled the mags; the engine (which had
> recovered by
> now at full throttle) ran fine on either magneto. I did not notice
> what my
> EIS fuel pressure readout said, but I didn't get a caution light.
> The carb
> heat had seemed to have no immediate effect, but I wasn't waiting
> around at
> half power to see what it would do. Once again, I put it in
> get-home-NOW
> mode and had an uneventful pattern and landing. All told, this
> sudden
> roughness happened once each on three of five short flights I made
> that day.
> I put the plane away and haven't gone back since; the last time
> really
> started to shake my confidence. Now I want to fix it and face my
> fears
> (hopefully in that order).
>
> As I reflect back on last Saturday's flying, I wonder what was
> different that
> might be a clue. It was the first warm day I've flown since the
> piston mod 3
> months ago. My EGT's are lower and CHT's slightly higher than they
> were with
> the 150 hp pistons. Oil temps were 25 degrees higher that day than
> all
> winter. Under-cowl temps were certainly higher given the above.
> Mogas was
> purchased last month and filtered and handled as per my routine of
> the last
> three years. This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane
> premium
> mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous
> experience with
> 87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock
> symptoms.
> The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I
> experienced
> hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude airport.
> Never have
> I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for
> several
> years.
>
> So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power
> trigger it
> somehow?
>
> Discussion most welcome. After reading 125 entries from the archives
> on
> vapor lock, I specially hope to hear from Check Six Mark, who said,
> "Now 100%
> winter blend on a 85F day will cause a big pucker factor, even in
> cruise! ...
> My wife demands 100LL in both tanks before she rides with me..." and
> from
> Gary Sobek, whose opinion of exhaust wraps seems to differ strongly
> from that
> of Larry Vetterman, who made my exhaust system...
>
> Gentlemen: help, please?
>
> Bill Boyd
> considering one of those Hodges volatility testers, as I transfer
> this batch
> of mogas from the plane to the car!
Bill:
Yes it sounds like Vapor Lock. My guess would be that a reduction in
power may as less cool fuel is flowing from the fuel tank to the carb.
It has a longer time to warm up and cause vapor lock. Fuel would have
a longer time in the mechanical fuel pump and carb to heat up. I see
about 14-18 GPH wide open and less than 6 GPH at 2100 RPM 22 Inches MP.
I have had Vapor Lock 3 times on the ground in the first 100 hours. I
only aborted one takeoff do to missing. Relocating the oil cooler got
oil temps much lower (apx 30 F) and have not had any more vapor lock
problems. I also have not detected any Carb ice ever on this airplane.
I have in a Cessna. I do have CAT on the RV to watch. I now see oil
temps around 185 F with a 2" blocking plate accross the bottom of the
cooler for winter. (Opening is 3 X 5" with a 2" X 3" 0.032 cover)
The exhaust wrap has been deteriorating and is about 25% gone. I
purchased more on Saturday in case I wish to redo the wrap. I have had
no problems with the High Country exhaust by using exhaust wrap. It
has been on about 600 hours now. Frank Donnelly (See Copperstate Dash
2000) uses it on his 180 HP RV-3 (heard it just sold) and has only had
2 or 3 cracks after the wrapping on his Tolle exhaust in about 500+
flying hours. One Air Show performer based at my airport (CCB)also
uses exhaust wrap. Gary Hart [N64GH](Photo in completions of April
2001 Sport Aviation) has placed exhaust wrap on his RV-6 to help get
oil temperatures down. The problem I see with the wrap is it gets
tighter with the expansion of the hot pipes and the wrap wears out.
Others do not like it as it can hold oil or fuel when a fire starts. I
have had no exhaust problems. Paul Rosales has had one of his High
Country pipes break. (He does not have wrap.) He is the third RV in
SoCAL that has had a High Country exhaust break. IMHO, I think the
temperature drop under the cowl with the exhaust wrap is worth its cost
and the cost of a new exhaust system every 5 years or 1000 hours.
IMHO, High Country makes the best value exhaust system for the RV. If
there are any better ones, they cost a lot more.
I have a heat shield to install on the fuel pump but never did. The
oil cooler relocation to the rear of # 4 cylinder did the trick for me.
My troubleshooting suggestions would be the following suggestions.
Check the intake induction system to make sure that you have no air
leaks. (A friend made an off field landing do to a loose fuel
injection servo and broken gasket.) He sometimes missed (rich mixture)
and the problem went away for 2 months before the crash then it started
and the engine stopped. The rich mixture did not make sense with the
broken gasket (pieces missing) but that is what was found after the
crash.
I would use AvGAS (100LL) only for several tanks. Yes Lycoming says
that 93 octane is ok on the 160 HP engine but I believe that auto fuel
does not measure octane the same way. Maybe Doug can tell us more.
It is possible that you did have carb icing. I am incline to think
that your diagnose of vapor lock may be correct. Auto fuel does have
a lower vapor pressure and with the higher temperature may be having
some vapor lock.
If the AvGAS makes the problem go away and you still wish to try auto
fuel, you will need to do some experimenting. Lycoming recommends
using the boost pump when it is hot and engine is hot on the ground.
You may wish to do some tests at altitude over an airport in case you
need to dead stick. (After flying some simulated engine outs with
AvGAS.) I would put auto fuel in one tank and go fly high above the
airport on a hot day till it started acting up again. Turn the boost
pump on. Does it go away? The higher pressure in the lines from the
pump will raise the temperature it boils at. (Vapor locks) The boost
pump on is the same principal as a pressure cooker. The higher
pressure rasises the boiling temperature.
There are a lot of other things to try. The easiest would be to try
the AvGAS first. Others will suggest more for you as you have already
suggested several.
I like to start troubleshooting by eliminating the simple stuff first.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
778+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? |
Listers,
Having had about fifteen, or so, years of mogas usage under my belt,
I may have an idea about the problem. Granted, it may be an entirely
different problem; but, this is one I've experienced each spring.
My fuel system has no gascolator, has the boost pump on the engine
side of the firewall, has firesleeve, and has some blast tubes. It's
exactly the same setup as that on my Cheetah, except for the blast
tubes. That said, I get vapor locks with fast turnarounds when using
auto fuel. In fact, I've had mine hiccup during a fast turnaround start
up with 100LL. I've found that my RV-6A is more apt to have a
vapor lock than my Cheetah was.
This time of year, there may still be some winter blends of mogas still
around. Until the summer blends hit the market, there is more apt to
be vapor locking on warm days. My RV seems to settle down a lot
when things warm up and stay there. I guess the mogas distributors
think it's better to sell winter blends until the warm days don't give
way to colder days. That should happen very soon. In our area, the
temps jumped dramatically this week. I'm betting I could get my RV
to vapor lock very easily this week.
Another thing that Bill mentioned was flying over mountains. He had
altitude and density altitude working against him. I fly at lower flight
levels since I'm a flat lander. That probably helps me a lot. I know
that mogas is not recommended at altitudes above 10K'. On a hot
day, it's real easy to see temps rise enough to get the density
altitudes up there. With the winter blend up front, I'm betting it's more
apt to give you problems.
My suggestion is to blend a little 100LL in with the mogas until we get
past that transition period when mogas is probably in the winter
blend. That should have passed by the first of May. That will help
hold down the vapor pressures and hopefully will eliminate the
problem.
BTW, I can't ever remember having my engine act up in flight. My
problems always seem to be at startups. Once air is flowing over the
fuel lines, things settle down nicely. I also don't use 100LL in one
tank and mogas in the other. It's all or none, unless I just buy some
mogas for the lead. Maybe I'm lucky; but, I've never had my engine
quit from vapor lock. I must admit I've almost had it quit on a fast
turnaround and apply power for takeoff. I just back off to idle very
quickly and taxi back to the ramp to clear the system. Easing the
engine up a little at a time soon clears out the hot fuel. Then, I go for
it, again.
I've also found that starting a vapor locked engine can be done if
one just lets the boost pump sit there and run like crazy for a bit. It
will eventually win out and build pressure. When it does, you can
start the engine with little trouble. If I don't do this, my engine starts
and runs like a bucking bronco. Not good.
I hope this helps.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (90+ hours on the tach)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C & M Ross" <ross.cm(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | School Project!! |
School Project!
>
> Hi!
>
> We are 17 Grade 5 and 6 students at Veteran School in Veteran,
Alberta.
> Veteran is located 320 km northeast of Calgary, Alberta, home of
the
> famous Calgary Stampede. Veteran is in the area that we call the
prairies
> of East Central Alberta.
>
> We have decided, after seeing this done at another school, to map
an
> e-mail project. We are curious to see where in the world our
e-mail will
> travel
> via the Internet, between the period of January 25, 2001 and April
30,
> 2001.
>
> This is not a pen-pal project, so we will not write you back
(unless you
> request a verification). We would like your help.
>
> If you receive this e-mail, we ask that you:
> 1.. E-mail us back us back at: veteran56(at)plrd.ab.ca and tell us
your
> city/state/ location so we can plot it on our map.
>
> 2.. Forward this e-mail to everyone you know so that they can send
> it on to everyone they know (and so on) to help us reach even more
> people.
> (We don't mind receiving repeats, so send it on to everyone. We're
> tracking the number of responses we receive as well, and will be
making
a
> graph
> using the numbers received by state, province and country.
>
> With your help we can make this a very fun and learning
experience.
>
> Please help us.
> Thank-you for any help you can give.
>
> Grades 5 & 6
> Mrs. Debbie Letniak's Social Studies Class
> Box 649 Veteran, Alberta TOC 2S0
> Phone: 403-575-3915
> Fax: 403-575-3870
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? - correction |
I personally have had Carb Ice On taking off on a hazy summer evening with a
temperature in the 90s.
I also understand that auto gas has a Higher Reid vapor pressure to make
starting easier during the winter months. They lower it during the summer
so that it is easier to contain and meet EPS standards when it is hotter.
Since you were using the High Octane blend, it probably still had the
"winter" Reid pressure. The high octane does not sell as well and so well
could be "old" winter stock. In any case, since car gas has a higher vapor
pressure, it will generate icing before AV gas. BUT don't kid your self, AV
gas will do the same thing and probably would have given you the problem as
well on that particular day.
If you have noticed, there is generally a price drop at the beginning of
spring to clear out the old Winter blend stocks.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
P.S. Low wing pilots have been known to keep auto gas in one side and AV gas
in the other. Take off and land with Av Gas as High cooling for icing
happens at full throttle and and icing also happens when the cooling over
comes the engine heat during closed throttle.
Icing also can happen during cruise. You will see your RPMs slowly drop. If
you apply heat, the rpm will drop even farther. The engine will run rough
and then as the ice melts, the rpm will increase and the engine smooths out.
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: could this be vapor lock? - correction
>
>
> Arrgh!! I looked for this web page for 15 minutes, only to find the link
> on my RV Links page. I've changed the info on carb ice to reflect this
> page, which seems to have a better pedigree than the info on the original
> page I quoted.
>
> I removed most of the original message. My comments are interspersed.
>
> First, congratulations on doing a good job handling the problem. Sounds
> like your immediate response worked very well. I'm not qualified to
> comment on whether you had a vapour lock problem or not, but my gut feel
is
> that it is a likely cause.
>
> >I cannot recall whether 84F is too warm for
> >ice, but I think it is possible at that OAT.
>
> Have a look at this chart:
>
> http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm
>
> Carb ice at low power at 84 deg F is possible, at a range of dewpoints. I
> suspect this curve was based on tests on engines burning avgas. The
> results might be a bit different on engines burning mogas. I think the
> greater volatility of mogas could lead to more cooling in the carburetor,
> and greater likelihood of carb ice. Maybe. This is just speculation.
>
> >This is my first spring having to use the 93 octane premium
> >mogas, so I have no experience with it in warm wx. Previous experience
with
> >87 octane and the 7:1 pistons has never shown in-flight vapor-lock
symptoms.
> >The only time I ever thought I was seeing vapor lock was when I
experienced
> >hard starting after a short shut-down at a high-altitude airport. Never
have
> >I experinced this in cruise, despite using mogas year-round for several
> >years.
> Premium gas has got quite a different mix of stock than regular gas I
> believe, so it may very well have different vapour pressure vs temperature
> characteristics.
>
> >So, does this sound like vapor lock? Does the reduction in power trigger
it
> >somehow?
> Just speculation here - you've got a temperature balance in the fuel
system
> ahead of the firewall. There is heat coming into the system from the
> engine. There is cool gas coming in from the gas tank. If you pull back
> the power, there is suddenly much less fuel flow, so there is less cool
gas
> coming in. The temperature of the gas ahead of the firewall would start
to
> climb quite quickly. If it was on the ragged edge of boiling before, this
> could be enough to cause vapour lock. Maybe.
>
> You've probably already decided this, but I would fly with just avgas for
> awhile, to see how the engine behaves. Then, maybe I would start to play
> around with the mogas, but only when in a good position to handle an
engine
> failure.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Keep us posted,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
> Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
> http://eccentrix.com/misc/rv8/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Exhaust wrap, my experiences |
I just thought it might be of benefit to throw in my experiences with
exhaust wrap. I used it on my turbocharged street/track car a while back.
I loved the lower temps it gave and the better turbo response (quicker spool
up). BUT, the exhaust runs below the balance shafts and I developed a very
minor seal leak at the back of one of them. Oil collected on the exhaust
wrap and yes, I DID have a fire. Not a pretty sight to see flames shooting
up from the exhaust and enveloping the rubber FUEL LINES. It's a race car,
so fire extinguisher was close at hand and no harm no foul. I pulled the
wrap off immediately. What I've used in it's place, to great benefit is
ceramic coating both inside and out of the pipes. Porsche put stainless
exhaust on these cars, and they've been known to crack under major
abuse...but even stressed like these are I have had no problems after going
ceramic. Spool up is as good as it was with the wrap, temps seem the same
and I don't have an concerns about fire.
Once again, the oil soaked wrap burst into flames simply from the exhaust
heat of STREET driving compounded by a crack....this did not happen on the
track and I was only 10 minutes into the drive. Your results may vary, and
I still know several racers using the wrap because it's cheaper....but I
feel like I dodged the bullet once.....I'll stick with the ceramic.
Bill
-4 wings...putting on the main skins...woohoooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | warren gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
Take a look at the GPS antenna I sell. It is great to put on RV's. You
can see it on my website. http://www.gretzaero.com
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
joe wiza wrote:
>
> I have a garmin 195 and 295 which I use for X country.
> I ran the antenna wires up the front side of the roll
> bar and stuck them to the windshield. Beside cleaning
> the windshield and cups, applying lots of voodoo they
> alternately take turns falling down??? any ideas
> thanks ahead
> Joe RV6A 140hrs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MicroMonitor MAP sensor installation |
Hit this link and scroll down to the second photo:
http://home.HiWAAY.net/~sbuc/journal/engine2.html
Not aware of a connector (although some scrounging in an auto junkyard
should turn up something; the sender is an automotive NAPA map-sensor).
I just applied RTV over the pins and it is holding just fine.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, back from S-N-F!)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
===========
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote:
>
>
> Quick questions. Of those of you with MicroMonitors what type of tubing did
> you use to connect the map sensor to the cylinder? How did you make the
> connection at the cylinder end and the MAP sensor end? Also does anyone
> know if there is a molex-type connector available for the NAPA MAP sensor
> that MicroMonitor sells? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
I'm taping the series and will begin encoding them to QuickTime or ms media
and get someone to post 'em for listers to download. The first episode was
just fluff, no real content we didn't already know. Aka , what a qwikbuild
kit is etc......
Steven DiNieri
Niagara Falls, New York
RV-6A, P28A-160
Hi John,
I am building a RV8 here in Germany. I am quite interested in that
broadcast,
but cannot afford to travel to the States to see it.
Do you have any idea where I could get the tape from?
Stephan Servatius
romeo.victor@t-online.de
John Lenhardt schrieb:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "John Lenhardt"
>
> Here's the URL where the broadcast schedule for the series "From the
Ground
> Up" can be located and you can have an email reminder sent to yourself...
> http://wings.discovery.com/. I'd like to see this series too if anyone
can
> tape it. It started yesterday, but espisode 1 will be re-aired today.
See
> below:
>
> >From the Ground Up - Episode 1
>
> Take a look at the tools needed and learn some tips for getting started
> while the RV-8 arrives. Get a feel for space and time constraints, and an
> appreciation for the process. Also, visit another homebuilder already hard
> at work in his own garage.
>
> ----
> Air Time(s) Eastern/Pacific Time:
> WNG Apr 8 2001 8:00 PM
> WNG Apr 8 2001 11:00 PM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 4:00 AM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 7:00 AM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 12:00 PM
> WNG Apr 9 2001 3:00 PM
> ----
>
> John Lenhardt
> jtl258(at)home.com
>
>
Stephan Servatius
Untere Hauptstr. 3
85461 Bockhorn
Germany
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Discovery Channel RV8 series |
I'm taping the series and will begin encoding them to QuickTime or ms media
and get someone to post 'em for listers to download. The first episode was
just fluff, no real content we didn't already know. Aka , what a qwikbuild
kit is etc...
Steven DiNieri
Niagara Falls, New York
RV-6A, P28A-160
I sure would like to see it also, but alas, it's not in my Michigan area
either. If anyone would tape the series, I would be interested if obtaining
it.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " theslumlord" <theslumlord(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Micro Monitor MAP SENSOR connector |
The map sensor that comes with the Micro Monitor fits early to mid 70's
Chev- Buick- Olds. Your best bet is to go to a junk yard with your sensor
in one hand and wire cutters in the other. You will have to go thru several
cars to find the exact connector you need.
Ralph Bookout, Slumlord
RV6 finishing- Visalia, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Scherder" <tomscherder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: School Project!! |
Hi guys
I'm a airplane builder in Union Kentucky, Union is about 30 miles south of
Cincinnati Ohio. Good luck with your school project!
Tom Scherder
----- Original Message -----
From: "C & M Ross" <ross.cm(at)home.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: School Project!!
>
>
> School Project!
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > We are 17 Grade 5 and 6 students at Veteran School in Veteran,
> Alberta.
> > Veteran is located 320 km northeast of Calgary, Alberta, home of
> the
> > famous Calgary Stampede. Veteran is in the area that we call the
> prairies
> > of East Central Alberta.
> >
> > We have decided, after seeing this done at another school, to map
> an
> > e-mail project. We are curious to see where in the world our
> e-mail will
> > travel
> > via the Internet, between the period of January 25, 2001 and April
> 30,
> > 2001.
> >
> > This is not a pen-pal project, so we will not write you back
> (unless you
> > request a verification). We would like your help.
> >
> > If you receive this e-mail, we ask that you:
> > 1.. E-mail us back us back at: veteran56(at)plrd.ab.ca and tell us
> your
> > city/state/ location so we can plot it on our map.
> >
> > 2.. Forward this e-mail to everyone you know so that they can send
>
> > it on to everyone they know (and so on) to help us reach even more
>
> > people.
> > (We don't mind receiving repeats, so send it on to everyone. We're
>
> > tracking the number of responses we receive as well, and will be
> making
> a
> > graph
> > using the numbers received by state, province and country.
> >
> > With your help we can make this a very fun and learning
> experience.
> >
> > Please help us.
> > Thank-you for any help you can give.
> >
> > Grades 5 & 6
> > Mrs. Debbie Letniak's Social Studies Class
> > Box 649 Veteran, Alberta TOC 2S0
> > Phone: 403-575-3915
> > Fax: 403-575-3870
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "W. Granville Batte" <wgranville.batte(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Discovery channel - building a RV series |
Dear All,
Regarding the Discovery Channel's special on building an RV: usually the
Discovery Channel sells a tape of its special programs.
Maybe Van's might be interested in selling / distributing the tape as well.
This arrangement might be a "win-win" for all interested.
Cheers,
Granville Batte
RV-8 emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap, my experiences |
--- Bill Shook wrote:
>
> I just thought it might be of benefit to throw in my experiences with
> exhaust wrap. I used it on my turbocharged street/track car a while
> back.
> I loved the lower temps it gave and the better turbo response
> (quicker spool
> up). BUT, the exhaust runs below the balance shafts and I developed
> a very
> minor seal leak at the back of one of them. Oil collected on the
> exhaust
> wrap and yes, I DID have a fire.
Sounds like you would have still had the fire anyway. Fuel (oil in
this case) plus oxygen (air 21%) plus (source to start compustion) heat
equal fire. Remove any one of those items and the fire goes out.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Markdews(at)AOL.COM |
>I'm just about finished plumbing up my engine and I'm looking for a primer
line >clamp .that I heard about that goes around the induction tubes and has
a dimple or >indentation on it that pefectly clamps an 1/8 in. primer line
against the induction >tubes. I've searched the archives and cannot find
anything that references these.
>Has anyone done this and if you have do you have a part number and source
where >I can get a couple of these?
>I'm running an 0360-A2A
>Thanks
>Fran Malczynski
>RV6 - N594EF (finishing)
>Olcott, NY
According to the Lycoming parts manual the part you want are LW-18959-175-25
Mark Dews 885SM (Reserved)
RV-6A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying to B.C. |
Brian, the first entry into the US each calendar year costs $25...for
this you will receive via snail mail a decal for future entries. You
can pay the $25 by credit card...nice touch! I waited 45 minutes for
customs at Cleveland when returning from Canada, but the agent was
apologetic and courteous. Canadian customs is great...too bad we have
to pay to come home.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A Flew past 350 hours coming home from SNF
Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm planning a flight up to Revelstoke, B.C. next week. My passenger is
> planning to buy Homer Roger's RV-6A. For the customs check-in on the
> Canadian side, Kelowna has been recommended. Any comments or suggestions?
> I don't know which port of entry to use on the U.S. side coming back. What
> U.S. airport has proven to be reasonably hassle-free for you Canadian
> RV'ers? I'll be taking a south to southeast heading out of Revelstoke, to
> get back home to New Mexico.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Also there is a quarterly fee assessed by the Canadians for atc services. I
think 15 bucks. The kicker is the quarters are fixed, so if you travel the
last day of a quarter and the first day of the next quarter your fee would
be 30 $
Steven DiNieri
Niagara Falls, New York
RV-6A, P28A-160
Brian, the first entry into the US each calendar year costs $25...for
this you will receive via snail mail a decal for future entries. You
can pay the $25 by credit card...nice touch! I waited 45 minutes for
customs at Cleveland when returning from Canada, but the agent was
apologetic and courteous. Canadian customs is great...too bad we have
to pay to come home.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
-6A Flew past 350 hours coming home from SNF
Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I'm planning a flight up to Revelstoke, B.C. next week. My passenger is
> planning to buy Homer Roger's RV-6A. For the customs check-in on the
> Canadian side, Kelowna has been recommended. Any comments or suggestions?
> I don't know which port of entry to use on the U.S. side coming back.
What
> U.S. airport has proven to be reasonably hassle-free for you Canadian
> RV'ers? I'll be taking a south to southeast heading out of Revelstoke, to
> get back home to New Mexico.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
In a message dated 4/11/01 12:25:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Boy, is this forum dead! I hope all you Sun 'n Fun-ers are having plenty
of
> fun!
I noticed that too Jim, I suddenly miss getting 80 emails a day....
Kevin in WA -9A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
AMERICAN APOLOGY TO THE CHINESE
> > >>
> > >>Dear China,
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you don't train your fighter pilots better. As a
> > >>token of our apology, here's a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator
> > >>2000.
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you're front-line fighter planes can't outmaneuver
> > >>a 35 year old prop-driven airliner. Perhaps you'd like to consider
> > >>purchasing some surplus 1950's era Lockheed Starfighters from
> > >>Taiwan. (We just replaced all theirs with shiny new F-16's)
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you believe your territorial waters extend all the
> > >>way to Australia. For future reference, here's an American 6th
> > >>grade geography textbook. (Please take note of the Copyright
> > >>information printed inside the cover.)
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you can't seem to see your part of this incident.
> > >>We know that it may seem easier to blame others than to take
> > >>responsibility. Consider this fact while we build several new Aegis
> > >>destroyers for our friends in the Republic of China (Taiwan).
> > >>
> > >>We're especially sorry for treating you with such respect for the
> > >>last 20 years. We will definitely rethink this policy and probably
> > >>go back to treating you like a common, untrustworthy street gang
> > >>very soon.
> > >>
> > >>We're very sorry for ever granting you Most-Favored-Nation trading
> > >>status and supporting your entrance into the World Trade
> > >>Organization. This will be rectified at the soonest possible
> > >>opportunity.
> > >>
> > >>Sincerely,
> > >>
> > >>The United States of America
> > >
> > >PS... Kiss our ass.
I couldn't resist
Steve d.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
Hey Jim, let's start a thread about tail draggers being better than nose
dragger... or which primer system is better... or RV-4's and RV-3's are the
only "REAL RV's". That'll fix those folks that bailed on us.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
Jim,
No offense intended... I just noticed you ARE one of those lowly 6's.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap, my experiences |
> Sounds like you would have still had the fire anyway. Fuel (oil in
> this case) plus oxygen (air 21%) plus (source to start compustion) heat
> equal fire. >
I disagree. In fact, I can prove it. I never did fix that little oil leak
that soaked the wrap and caused the fire. On occasion I can smell oil
cooking off the exhaust pipe. The difference is with the wrap that oil
collects in the wrap and doesn't necessarily burn off...and you end up with
a greasy oil soaked rag wrapped around a hot exhaust pipe. Without the
wrap, you get a small drop or two of oil at a time, which at most may cause
a bit of smoke (and I mean a bit) but nowhere near enough to cause a fire.
After the wrap caught on fire and I put it out...I removed it and it was
still oil soaked. It's been 18 months and better than 20K miles (many of
those on the track) and that few drop a day leak has not produced anything
resembling another fire and only a few times did I think I smelled oil smoke
from it burning the oil off the header.
Wrap does hold oil, that is not disputed....not by anyone who has tested it.
Question is, do you believe that oil will catch on fire? It may never
happen to you, but if it does...you will believe and I hope it's not at
altitude. I was warned by several well known race shops not to use the
wrap...but I thought I knew better....3 foot flames surrounding my fuel
lines made a believer out of me....sure glad I could just pull over, pop the
hood and hit it with an extinguisher. Might not be that simple at 10K ft.
I've learned over the last year on this list that anyone attempting to
change people's minds generally gets blasted....but I've seen the fire, I
know what caused it beyond any doubt.....and I really think the wrap is a
bad idea in an environment where you won't even see it if a leak develops
and soaks the wrap.
Bill
-4 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust wrap, my experiences |
In a message dated 4/11/2001 4:37:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
billshook(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I disagree. In fact, I can prove it. I never did fix that little oil leak
> that soaked the wrap and caused the fire. On occasion I can smell oil
> cooking off the exhaust pipe. The difference is with the wrap that oil
> collects in the wrap and doesn't necessarily burn off...and you end up with
> a greasy oil soaked rag wrapped around a hot exhaust pipe. Without the
> wrap, you get a small drop or two of oil at a time, which at most may cause
> a bit of smoke (and I mean a bit) but nowhere near enough to cause a fire.
> After the wrap caught on fire and I put it out...I removed it and it was
> still oil soaked. It's been 18 months and better than 20K miles (many of
> those on the track) and that few drop a day leak has not produced anything
> resembling another fire and only a few times did I think I smelled oil smoke
> from it burning the oil off the header.
>
> Wrap does hold oil, that is not disputed....not by anyone who has tested it.
> Question is, do you believe that oil will catch on fire? It may never
> happen to you, but if it does...you will believe and I hope it's not at
> altitude. I was warned by several well known race shops not to use the
> wrap...but I thought I knew better....3 foot flames surrounding my fuel
> lines made a believer out of me....sure glad I could just pull over, pop the
> hood and hit it with an extinguisher. Might not be that simple at 10K ft.
> I've learned over the last year on this list that anyone attempting to
> change people's minds generally gets blasted....but I've seen the fire, I
> know what caused it beyond any doubt.....and I really think the wrap is a
> bad idea in an environment where you won't even see it if a leak develops
> and soaks the wrap.
>
> Bill
> -4 wings
>
I agree with bill, am going to cermic coat my pistons, exhust etc. THe wrap
is just something to collect oil tell it starts on fire.
chris wilcox
F1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
Jim Bower wrote:
>
>
> Boy, is this forum dead! I hope all you Sun 'n Fun-ers are having plenty of
> fun!
We did.... :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, already washed)
"The RV Journal" http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jginth" <jginth(at)email.msn.com> |
Anyone on the list that went to sun and fun and saw the new RV 7? Van's
site said that they were going to try and have it there. Just wanted to
know what was thought of it- Does it seam much different at all then
the 6?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? |
5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 04/11/2001 05:41:42 PM
Guys,
On a related subject to the topic of vapor lock, I was reading an article
on fuel systems in Sport Aviation a couple days ago (can't remember which
month but it was a recent issue, maybe Feb '01?). The author of the
article says that his preferred and recommended fuel system arrangement is
to run the elec boost pump and engine driven pumps in a parallel vs. series
arrangement. I guess the idea is to provide redundant paths to feed the
engine, which could help in the event of vapor lock, blockage in a line,
pump failure, etc. Of course it also makes the fuel system more complex,
heavier, and with more potential failure points.
The author mentioned that he has a Glasair but didn't specify how his fuel
system was set up. I've never seen this setup on any aircraft, certified
or experimental. Has anybody done this on an RV?
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8A F-804 forward rudder cable grommet |
5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 04/11/2001 05:48:42 PM
Guys,
My -8A construction manual says on page 8-14 "Forward hole and grommet in
F-804 is larger to allow for the rudder cable 'walking'....." On dwg 11
the VIEW #2 for the -8 shows a 3/4" hole in agreement with the manual, but
on VIEW#2 for the -8A it shows a smaller 5/8" hole. Does anyone know if
this is an error in the plans or if for some reason there is actually a
smaller grommet on the -8A (can't imagine why....)?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael D. Bender" <mbender(at)ambientdesigns.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV6-List: Sun-N-Fun |
Hi there John,
Yes, the RV-7 is/was indeed there! Very pretty.
I'm sure someone on this list that has great
experience with the 6 and saw the 7 at Sun N Fun
can tell us both what he/she thinks!
Michael
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv6-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jginth
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: RV6-List: Sun-N-Fun
--> RV6-List message posted by: "jginth"
Anyone on the list that went to sun and fun and saw the new RV 7? Van's
site said that they were going to try and have it there. Just wanted to
know what was thought of it- Does it seam much different at all then
the 6?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun -7 |
I saw it...the paint does indeed look better in person. :-)
As far as differences with the 6....all those side by side doojabby's look
the same. :-) If you're starting new, maybe you should go with the 7
because it's easier to build, but if you have already started a 6....just
build it...they're all great planes. Of course, a year ago I decided that
the -4 was for me...new fangled prepunching and readable plans be damned.
Now, I'm hanging the top skins on both wings and my arms are tired from
holding that drill for hours on end....but I have drilled ever hole after
measuring where to put it. Something to be proud of I suppose, except for
having to fill a row of holes I just discovered I put in the wrong place.
DAMMIT.....center of the rear spar won't work. :-) Builds
character....kinda like boot camp.
Bill
-4 wings.....first sizable mistake is behind me....now I have to fix it.
:-( Oh and there is that dent in the aileron.....uggghh
>
> Anyone on the list that went to sun and fun and saw the new RV 7? Van's
> site said that they were going to try and have it there. Just wanted to
> know what was thought of it- Does it seam much different at all then
> the 6?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
John, I didn't go but was at Van's the day before the RV-7 left for S&F. I
spent a while talking with Gus about it. Basically, the 7 is the RV-9 fuse
with the RV-8 wings. That's it in a nutshell. As such, it is the
technologically upgraded 6. From a performance standpoint.....no gains, no
losses. I see advantages to Van as it cuts down on the complexity of his
operation and brings the design and manufacture up to the 21st
century.....away from hand drawn plans. From the builders point of
view....whatever upgrades between the now pre-punched, powdercoated 6 kits
and the 9 kits will be gained. Do you like the design of the 6 wing spar or
the 8? This is the major difference. The RV-7 is heavier but is rated at a
higher gross thus the larger engine. Because of the similarities between
the 6 and 7, I can't see Van continuing to sell the 6 into the foreseeable
future. My guess is that parts will be supported but new kits will be a
thing of the past. That's just me talking....nothing heard.
Ross
6A.....and proud of it
> Anyone on the list that went to sun and fun and saw the new RV 7? Van's
> site said that they were going to try and have it there. Just wanted to
> know what was thought of it- Does it seam much different at all then
> the 6?
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald H. Evans" <rhevans(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Threat.DateOverflow Virus on emails from this list. |
Gentlemen:
My Norton antivirus has flagged at least 5 times on messages from this list.
It says that they have an attachment with the Threat.DateOverflow Virus.
Norton seems to be catching it for me. I hope everybody is scanning for it.
Best regards, Ron, Chapel Hill, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Pro-seal expiration |
I received my pro-seal today since I was getting close to doing the tanks.
The expiration on the can says 9 month expiration ending in June 01. It was
made in September 00. I guess this is the internet version of a 6 month
expiration.
Anyone have any thoughts on the actual shelf life of this. It will be a
problem likely for me to finish the tanks by June since I am somewhat of a
slow builder what with 12 hour work days and all.
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pro-seal expiration |
Proseal and hardener
Put it in the freezer and the shelf life will be ok this is what I do and I
have some at least two years old
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flap to topskin gap |
Well, I finished the modifications to fix the left flap/fuselage
interference, moved the hinge on the flap in 3/16" and trimmed the flap end
to clear the aileron. Glad that mess is over!
Moved on to the right side, flap fit perfect, no interference at all. I
trimmed the inboard edge and fit the flap up into position, thought is was
going together fine, put a couple of small pins in the ends of the hinge to
start working on the push rods.
When I swung the flap up into position I noticed it wasn't touching the top
skin, then I noticed the BIG GAP between the topskin and the flap...how did
I do that? I put it together the same way as the left side...@#$@#
Any ideas how to clear this one up? the gap starts at the root as about
1/16" or less then grows to almost 1/4" out by the aileron. I don't know
how it happened but I do know I have to fix it.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Still fighting with flap fit problems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Norman, MD" <jnorman(at)InterMapSystems.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-seal expiration |
I use this stuff for all sorts of things. Once you get used to the mess, it
really is a handy compound. It seems that as long as its usable, its good.
As long as it is soft and you can get it out of the can and mix with its
counterpart, it works fine.
jim
Tampa
I received my pro-seal today since I was getting close to doing the tanks.
The expiration on the can says 9 month expiration ending in June 01. It was
made in September 00. I guess this is the internet version of a 6 month
expiration.
Anyone have any thoughts on the actual shelf life of this. It will be a
problem likely for me to finish the tanks by June since I am somewhat of a
slow builder what with 12 hour work days and all.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)AOL.COM |
Did You see mine there? And by the way I'm in Kitty Hawk waiting for the
weather to improve to get home tomorrow. I went through a shower today and My
plane is nice clean again
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kenneth beene <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cutting painted aluminum |
I modified my completed panel after it was painted and in the plane. The
changes can be seen on my home page pictures. I cut a 3 1/8 hole for the CDI
with punch and got some slight edge cracking. The punch for the 1/3 ATI hole
was done with masking tape over the paint and didn't crack - it could be that
the smaller opening just caused less deflection. The glove box opening was
enlarged with a Dremel cut-off wheel and then with a file. The radios cover the
edges of this type of opening. The paint is SunFire with a degloss added. It
is difficult to touch up the cracking.
There is a new link on my home page to my flight to SNF
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mnellis(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Web Update - Flaps |
While many were down in the land of alligators, sand and airplanes, I
retreated to the dungeon and actually did some building the past 2
evenings.
Don Mack loaned us his backrivet set and we got one of the top, main
wing skins riveted on. Additionally, I got the flaps built and both are
ready for the final skin drilling.
If you're getting ready to do the wing flaps, have a look and let me
know if you have any questions.
http://bmnellis.com
Mike Nellis
Stinson 108-2 N9666K
RV-6 N699BM (reserved)N
Plainfield, IL (LOT)
Prepping Top Main Wing Skins for riveting
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate engines |
Listers,
We're doing a lot of talking about Van's airplanes; but, none of us
has mentioned alternate engines. I got to see some of these
installations and was somewhat impressed with what I saw.
However, there seems to be a lot of work to getting a 13B or Chevy
engine to work. Some have exhausts that stick way out behind the
cowl that don't look all that great to me. With that kind of info in the
past , I had decided to stick with the Lycoming engine for mine. My
being there this year only supported my decision in regards to those
engines.
I'm sure that most of us who were there missed out on a new kid
that's going to be on the block as an alternative engine. How many
of you stopped by the Jabiru engine booth? I'll best most of you
passed it on buy thinking it was for ultralights. Let me tell you about
these guys. They're coming out with a new eight cylinder engine
that's going to drop right into our RVs. That's right. A eight cylinder
engine. Can you imagine how smooth that little fella will run? This is
going to be a 180 hp engine that may be derated from 200 hp. Van
is encouraging them to introduce that engine as an alternative to the
Lycoming. Get this. The price will be about $15-16K from the Jabiru
folks. Their introductory price is $13.9K. Van could become a OEM
for it. You folks out there should be looking at this. Pat Patterson
and I looked at it very strongly. In fact, old Pat volunteered one of
his RVs as a test bed; but, the guys at the booth couldn't be
convinced to let him have one. Were I to be about ready for an
engine, I'd sure be looking at it for myself. It seems to be well
engineered.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Chesteen" <bchesteen(at)planetc.com> |
| Subject: | RV-7A from RV-6A |
Just got my Emp conversion kit today from vans along with the preview plans
set to switch to the 7A.
Man this looks great! Tons simpler! Alot of new "not edited" drawings etc.
Brian Chesteen
RV-7A Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LOMOTH, GORDON" <gordon.lomoth(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | American apology |
Hello guys
Just thought that I would point out that you Americans held a Chinese
Mig 25 aircraft for 9 months after its pilot defected. I don't believe
that you will get your aircraft back before the chinese have picked it
to pieces just like you did their aircraft. Playback time from their
point of view, and no different that what you did to them.
Gord Lomoth
RV7 emp
Canada
AMERICAN APOLOGY TO THE CHINESE
> > >>
> > >>Dear China,
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you don't train your fighter pilots better. As a
> > >>token of our apology, here's a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator
> > >>2000.
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you're front-line fighter planes can't
outmaneuver
> > >>a 35 year old prop-driven airliner. Perhaps you'd like to consider
> > >>purchasing some surplus 1950's era Lockheed Starfighters from
> > >>Taiwan. (We just replaced all theirs with shiny new F-16's)
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you believe your territorial waters extend all
the
> > >>way to Australia. For future reference, here's an American 6th
> > >>grade geography textbook. (Please take note of the Copyright
> > >>information printed inside the cover.)
> > >>
> > >>We're sorry that you can't seem to see your part of this incident.
> > >>We know that it may seem easier to blame others than to take
> > >>responsibility. Consider this fact while we build several new
Aegis
> > >>destroyers for our friends in the Republic of China (Taiwan).
> > >>
> > >>We're especially sorry for treating you with such respect for the
> > >>last 20 years. We will definitely rethink this policy and probably
> > >>go back to treating you like a common, untrustworthy street gang
> > >>very soon.
> > >>
> > >>We're very sorry for ever granting you Most-Favored-Nation trading
> > >>status and supporting your entrance into the World Trade
> > >>Organization. This will be rectified at the soonest possible
> > >>opportunity.
> > >>
> > >>Sincerely,
> > >>
> > >>The United States of America
> > >
> > >PS... Kiss our ass.
I couldn't resist
Steve d.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: could this be vapor lock? |
Howdy y'all-
The April issue of Sport Aviation's "EAA Government Relations-Q&A" column had
the following letter in it, (for those who may not have seen it) At the risk
of plagiarism, this is offered as additional information in this recent
discussion.
HOMEBUILDERS & AUTO FUEL
Q. I have just started building an RV-9A and would like to use auto fuel.
...Where would I find info on which model (engine) is best for my application
as well as any information of specific interest to a homebuilder contemplating
the use of auto fuel?
A. You can find the list of engines approved to use auto fuel by looking at the
EAA autogas STC list on the EAA website at
www.eaa.org/education/fuel/approved.html.
Be advised however, that low-winged fuel systems don't always lend themselves
to using fuel with a high-vapor pressure (like auto fuel), and the introduction
of pumps, valves, and bends in tubing can increase your likelihood of vapor
lock. Many pilots think adding a fuel pump will deal with high-vapor pressure
fuels, but this is not true. Testing by EAA and Cessna found that, in many
cases, adding a fuel pump or boost can actually increase the likelihood of
vapor.
This is a complicated issue, and space doesn't allow a full discussion here, so
I suggest that you read FAA Advisory Circular 23.961-1, "Procedures for
Conducting Fuel System Hot Weather Operation Test." It describes how to test
an aircraft fuel system for safe operation in hot weather. The test calls for
heating the fuel. You may not wish to do this, but you can accomplish the test
on your completed aircraft by placing black cloth over your fuel tanks on a
sunny day.
-Earl Lawrence
Forwarded from the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
menavrat(at)collins.rockwell.com wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> On a related subject to the topic of vapor lock, I was reading an article
> on fuel systems in Sport Aviation a couple days ago (can't remember which
> month but it was a recent issue, maybe Feb '01?). The author of the
> article says that his preferred and recommended fuel system arrangement is
> to run the elec boost pump and engine driven pumps in a parallel vs. series
> arrangement. I guess the idea is to provide redundant paths to feed the
> engine, which could help in the event of vapor lock, blockage in a line,
> pump failure, etc. Of course it also makes the fuel system more complex,
> heavier, and with more potential failure points.
>
> The author mentioned that he has a Glasair but didn't specify how his fuel
> system was set up. I've never seen this setup on any aircraft, certified
> or experimental. Has anybody done this on an RV?
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A fuselage, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
Hey Guys,
Just a quick note since I just got back from the big show. I don't know
if I'll every get that black grit out of my interior, but it was worth
it to be there. I also had my cowling off for two days so people could
see things firewall forward. I think I managed to blow the dirt out of
there on the way home. I flew down with six other RVs and a Mustang II.
I left Lakeland on Tuesday to go to Key West. There were about 7 RVs on
the ramp down there. Looks like I wasn't the only one to think of it.
One cool thing. I was following a Cherokee down the keys and the Navy
Tower routed the Cherokee south out over the ocean on his appoach into
Key West International to avoid the NAS airspace. When I called him, he
cleared me for a low pass down the runway so he could get a closer look
at my airplane. Way cool. I managed to land about 5 minutes ahead of
the Cherokee.
On the way home, I flew from Key West to Indianapolis, a distance of
1000 nm, with one fuel stop and in just 6.6 hours!! I finally got one
of those "dream" tailwinds. Average speed over the ground was around
205 kts on the final leg. What fun.
BTW, these airplanes are really amazing. I'm still smiling.
Randy Pflanzer N417G
RV-6 (142 hours and very dirty)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
The smaller Jabiru engines are certified, and come as the standard
engine in certified airplanes sold in Australia. I don't know if they
plan to certify the 180 hp engine, but I would be surprised if they didn't.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
| Subject: | Storing RV parts |
I just happened to be looking through some old photo albums last night and
it was really nostalgic (and funny) to see what my house looked like back
when I was building.
I had the H.S. standing on end against a wall in the living room, (9' is a
LOT) and the wings were being constructed in the spare bedroom. While on
the jig the spar needed 1" more than I had available so I "relieved" a small
hole in the drywall for it to poke through - my wife is tolerant, but she
wasn't real thrilled about that one. The fuse construction and finish kit
parts took up most of the garage, and it seems like there were control
surfaces in every corner of the house (how many ailerons does this thing
*have* anyway?).
And just for fun I made a coffee table out of the H.S. for a couple of
days...
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)micron.net
> RV content: I love my airplane parts.....some on the wall in my
livingroom,
> others in the dining room, always some in the garage and more waiting for
> room on the credit card. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVPilot4(at)webtv.net (BOBE.) |
| Subject: | Re: RE: I Went to Sun-n-Fun |
Randall have you given any thought to the"goanywhere"system or is it
also to big?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Threat.DateOverflow Virus on emails from this list. |
Which is odd because the Matt strips all attachments. Nothing passes
through but textual data. Nothing threatening should come from the list.
Now, you could receive something that could appear to come from the RV-List.
You have to look at more than just the From: field in your message header,
you have to examine server names and IP addresses to determine where the
email really came from. If you like you could email me one of the emails
that Norton flags as being infected and I could help you track down where it
really came from.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald H. Evans [mailto:rhevans(at)nc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:31 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Threat.DateOverflow Virus on emails
from this list.
Gentlemen:
My Norton antivirus has flagged at least 5 times on messages
from this list.
It says that they have an attachment with the
Threat.DateOverflow Virus.
Norton seems to be catching it for me. I hope everybody is
scanning for it.
Best regards, Ron, Chapel Hill, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
jim
i saw the engine, it was very small and pretty, but it only has 1000 hour TBO
scott
tampa
lycosaurus or us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Jim, does it run on unleaded gas? did you ask them if they have engineered it
around the issue of phasing out 100LL? Too late for my current project, but
could be a candidate for my next.
Kevin in WA -9A finishing
> Listers,
>
> We're doing a lot of talking about Van's airplanes; but, none of us
> has mentioned alternate engines. I got to see some of these
> installations and was somewhat impressed with what I saw.
> However, there seems to be a lot of work to getting a 13B or Chevy
> engine to work. Some have exhausts that stick way out behind the
> cowl that don't look all that great to me. With that kind of info in the
> past , I had decided to stick with the Lycoming engine for mine. My
> being there this year only supported my decision in regards to those
> engines.
>
> I'm sure that most of us who were there missed out on a new kid
> that's going to be on the block as an alternative engine. How many
> of you stopped by the Jabiru engine booth? I'll best most of you
> passed it on buy thinking it was for ultralights. Let me tell you about
> these guys. They're coming out with a new eight cylinder engine
> that's going to drop right into our RVs. That's right. A eight cylinder
> engine. Can you imagine how smooth that little fella will run? This is
> going to be a 180 hp engine that may be derated from 200 hp. Van
> is encouraging them to introduce that engine as an alternative to the
> Lycoming. Get this. The price will be about $15-16K from the Jabiru
> folks. Their introductory price is $13.9K. Van could become a OEM
> for it. You folks out there should be looking at this. Pat Patterson
> and I looked at it very strongly. In fact, old Pat volunteered one of
> his RVs as a test bed; but, the guys at the booth couldn't be
> convinced to let him have one. Were I to be about ready for an
> engine, I'd sure be looking at it for myself. It seems to be well
> engineered.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Notes from Sun-n-Fun |
Gang-
Here are some notes from the 4 days I just spent at Sun-n-Fun:
1) The RV-9A and RV-7 are the hits of the show (at Van's tent, anyway!). They
are both absolutely the prettiest planes there! Remarks from the folks
climbing in and out of them are universally positive. The workmanship on them
is first-class, and I personally was relieved to see that they could look so
pretty without all the "detail" things that some builders go for. They are
just well built, plainly built, but nicely painted and eye-catching.
2) I finally got to fly the 9, and even on a very choppy and HOT day, it was
very stable and fun, and you won't BELIEVE how quickly it takes off! Plain
inside the cockpit but clean and pretty. The inner cockpit sidewalls aren't
carpeted at all, and are painted a plain but NICE shade of grey. The
pre-punched panel (they used the same panel in the 9 and 7, with slightly
different arrangement of avionics filling it) will become popular once people
see what nice gauges Van's sells. They are very clear and easy to read. For
the money, they are the best buy in gauges. Greg says the internally-lit
gauges pose no problem at all in night flying, but the clever little
side-lights that flood the panel do reflect in the canopy. They also
reportedly do a great job of lighting the panel.
3) Tom Green said the QB philosophy will be changing. For those who want to
build their own wings and have Van's send a QB fuselage, that will become an
option sometime around the end of the year (probably too late to help me).
Sort of a pick-your-QB-section option. You no longer have to order all or
nothing QB.
4) Van announced at the Tues. night banquet that the 4-place is on the way.
They will fully research and carefully plan every step and nuance before
releasing anything, so it may take a while. Expect a widened 9/7 fuselage,
bigger engine, and no aerobatics. More details will be forthcoming from Van's
as they encounter and answer the engineering challenges.
5) The collection of RVs flown in was awesome to see. I'm re-stoked now, and
will tear into my wings right away!
6) P.S. Got a great buy on a new ICOM A-23 while I was there! Now I'll have
to put off buying th fuselage kit a few more months!
Ed Winne
RV-9A Wings
Palmyra. PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Iain Box" <boxerino(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: i'm sorry too |
Do not forget that someone has tragically lost their lives in this
international incident. It is appalling that this kind of attitude is
expressed on this list. I can think of many more suitable websites where
this kind of narrowminded, grade school philosophy belongs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate engines |
Oh, man! I missed the Jabiru booth! I managed 3 days at SNF this year, but
a week wouldn't be enough.
I definitely want one of those. I just helped a neighbor wire up the
electrics on his Sonex with a Jabiru 4, and it's beautiful. Out of the box,
onto the nose, and it cranked right up. Quiet and smooth. And get this --
a real airplane engine that comes out of the box with -- check this -- a
MUFFLER! Not to mention that the alternator and fuel pump are included, and
already installed and hooked up.
I guess the only missing item is lots of hours flown to have a track record.
At this point longterm reliability and durability are still not well known.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Sears [mailto:sears(at)searnet.com]
> Sent: None
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: Alternate engines
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> We're doing a lot of talking about Van's airplanes; but, none of us
> has mentioned alternate engines. I got to see some of these
> installations and was somewhat impressed with what I saw.
> However, there seems to be a lot of work to getting a 13B or Chevy
> engine to work. Some have exhausts that stick way out behind the
> cowl that don't look all that great to me. With that kind of
> info in the
> past , I had decided to stick with the Lycoming engine for mine. My
> being there this year only supported my decision in regards to those
> engines.
>
> I'm sure that most of us who were there missed out on a new kid
> that's going to be on the block as an alternative engine. How many
> of you stopped by the Jabiru engine booth? I'll best most of you
> passed it on buy thinking it was for ultralights. Let me
> tell you about
> these guys. They're coming out with a new eight cylinder engine
> that's going to drop right into our RVs. That's right. A
> eight cylinder
> engine. Can you imagine how smooth that little fella will
> run? This is
> going to be a 180 hp engine that may be derated from 200 hp. Van
> is encouraging them to introduce that engine as an alternative to the
> Lycoming. Get this. The price will be about $15-16K from the Jabiru
> folks. Their introductory price is $13.9K. Van could become a OEM
> for it. You folks out there should be looking at this. Pat
> Patterson
> and I looked at it very strongly. In fact, old Pat
> volunteered one of
> his RVs as a test bed; but, the guys at the booth couldn't be
> convinced to let him have one. Were I to be about ready for an
> engine, I'd sure be looking at it for myself. It seems to be well
> engineered.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I just got a call from Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK), informing me that he's looking
to sell his RV-8. He is expecting his new -8 to be done soon and doesn't want
two RV-8s. Can't imagine why.
He had it at Oshkosh last year, so those of you who perused the RV corral may
have noticed it.
He has a website with pics and contact info at:
http://www.padre.homestead.com/
I told him I'd pass this info on to the RV-8 list community.
--Don McNamara
N8RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
In a message dated 4/12/01 8:30:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com writes:
> Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many flavors, right? At least we
> have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure, drill, measure, sweat,
> measure, and curse to build our airplanes like real men do! (Instead of
> those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
>
Us wussys will be flying before you :-]
Kevin in WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
In a message dated 4/12/01 9:00:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM writes:
>
> In a message dated 4/12/01 8:30:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many flavors, right? At least
> we
> > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure, drill, measure, sweat,
> > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like real men do! (Instead of
> > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
> >
> Us wussys will be flying before you :-]
> Kevin in WA
>
>
>
But you will still be a wussy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
> > Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many flavors, right? At least
> > we
> > > have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure, drill, measure,
sweat,
>
> > > measure, and curse to build our airplanes like real men do! (Instead
> of
> > > those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
> > >
> > Us wussys will be flying before you :-]
> > Kevin in WA
> >
> >
> >
>
> But you will still be a wussy!
>
Im detecting a hint of jealousy here... from some clipped wing enviers...!
Kevin -9A soon to be flying wussy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate engines |
Hmm. It seems I pulled a dummy. By saying I'm not putting a certain
phrase in my note that would prevent it's being archived, I did.
Dumb! This is a resend without that phrase. :-)
>>
>i saw the engine, it was very small and pretty, but it only has 1000
>hour TBO
Don't let that smallness fool ya. I'll bet it'll be a fine engine. I can
remember the six cylinder O-300 I had in my C172. Smooth as silk. I
can imagine the Jabiru will be smooth, as well. Given that, I have to
believe it won't be as hard on parts as a shaking four cylinder Lyc.
As for the 1000 TBO, I can understand their being conservative at
first. The Rotax was about that when they came out. I've heard they
are a lot more than that, now. To add to the discussion, my
Cheetah's O320 Lyc only had 1100 hours on it when it had to be
overhauled. So much for a 2000 hour TBO. :-) If the Jabiru really is
a 200hp engine derated to 180hp, that's gotta help the longevity.
I know this engine is not going to interest the hardened Lyc users;
but, it surely may hold some interest to those who are willing to use
an alternative. It's certainly worth looking into. The price wasn't too
bad, either.
>Jim, does it run on unleaded gas? did you ask them if they have
>engineered it around the issue of phasing out 100LL? Too late for
>my current project, but could be a candidate for my next.
Yes, I did; but, I didn't get a clear answer on that. However, I did
look at the compression ratios of the engine. At 7.8:1 ratio, that gets
it down pretty close to the 7.5:1 ratio of my 150hp engine that does
run on auto gas. I'm betting we can and told them that. I'm sure
more testing will be required; but, I don't see any problems with it,
even if we have to run them on 91-93 octane. To me, that would still
be better than taking a chance of using auto gas in a 180hp Lyc
engine that has a higher compression ratio
>Would I be too far off the mark in wondering if Lycomings are so
>high priced because of liability issues? It can't be that they are still
>amortizing 60 year old design costs!.
It could be. It could also be that the aircraft industry is using these
engines primarily because of their longevity in the industry. Maybe
we need to turn that around a little. I don't want the problems some
of the experimenters have gone through with the 13Bs and Chevy
engines. I want one I can just drop in. The Lycs had that going for
them. Now, maybe the Jabiru will be a nice alternative with that
thinking in mind.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> |
Dear fellow RV'ers,
The B-17 "Aluminum Overcast" will be visiting Jeffco Airport (BJC) in
Broomfield Colorado from Friday June 29 thru Monday June 2, 2001.
This is event is being hosted by EAA chapter 43 from Erie, Co.
Tours of the plane will be available (for a small fee) and group rates are
available. Call 1-800-359-6217 for more info.
Flights can be arranged (for a large fee). EAA members get a discount, $325
per person. ($375 for everyone else). Flight times are: 10:15 am - 11:00
am - 11:45 am - 12:30 pm - 1:15 pm
Additional early morning flight times may become available upon demand! For
reservations or inquiries call: 1-800-359-6217
Their web site is: www.b17.org
Our chapter is providing most of the ground crew but we are running a little
short on manpower, as we need a bunch of people to keep the shifts from
being too long. I'm hoping that some of my fellow RVers from surrounding
cities and states will attend and generously offer their assistance. We need
some help with things like admissions and various ground support duties.
Volunteers will be invited to a "Coctail Social" with the crew of the B-17
on Saturday night.
If you are able to volunteer some of your time please call my wife Patti-Lee
Begnaud at (303)604-9702 evenings until 8:30 pm (mountain time) and
weekends.
Thanks and I look forward to meeting some of you at this event.
Cliff
RV9 (782PC) Wings!
Erie, CO
www.barefootpilot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I am concidering using backlit labels on my panel. Maybe using the Flatlite
discussed recently. I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison of
different font styles and sizes for readability and asthetics.
Ross
6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Austin
I've purchased a lot of computer stuff and aviation related tools on EBay. All
of my experiences have been excellent. Heed the suggustions of others regarding
who you are dealing with. Use Pay Pal (a method of using your credit card for
payment) to pay for your purchase. That should give you some recourse if things
go wrong.
For Americans, I'd also suggest using U.S. Postal money orders. I once had a
computer outfit try to stiff me on a new computer sound card. They ignored all
email and phone calls. I filed a complaint with the Post Office ( I paid by U.S.
Postal Money Order) and it got straightened out RIGHT NOW! Using a U.S. postal
money order makes non delivery a Federal offense. Big Brother is useful
sometimes! :-)
I've also purchased lots of Snap-On, Mac & other automotive tools at great
prices. Some of these folks are so nice to deal with, that I've made numerous
purchases from them.
You can also do regional searches (buy from Canadian sellers) on EBay.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fuselage
Boca Raton, Fl.
>
> Listers,
> Anybody bought anything on eBay ?
> I am looking for a handheld GPS, but I see one must be sure it is an
> aircraft model for one thing.
> I am more concerned about how the buying and paying is done.
> I have never browsed the site before.....your experiences....would you buy a
> GPS on eBay ??
> Any problems with buying from Canada ?
> Thanks in advance for any feedback,
> Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate engines |
Listers,
You got my curiosity up. I actually have a flyer from the booth at the
show. However, I didn't realize how much info it had on it. Of
course, this info is for the four and six cylinder models; but, the
engines look just alike except for the number of cylinders. With that,
here's some more info for you.
The two engines include exhaust, starter, starter solenoid, oil cooler,
alternator, cooling ducts, engine mount bushings, prop guides, and
regulator. They are air cooled, horizontally opposed, overhead
valves, direct drive, wet sump lubing, electric starters, double crank
bearing on prop end. They already have firewall forward kits for
several homebuilts; so, I'm betting they'll have one for the RV to
include mounts, as well. Hmmm. Those may come from Van's, if he's
really after this engine. The 80hp and 120hp engines weigh 123 lbs
and 161 lbs resp. That means one might actually see an engine of
about 200lbs at 180hp. They are manufactured from solid steel bar
stock or aluminum billet. The sump is the only cast part. The ignition
is dual mags with redundant distributors and plugs. They use
commonly available NGK plugs.
Since the 80 hp and 120 hp engines are 2200cc and 3300cc resp,
I'd have to assume the 180hp version will be about 4400cc. Ignition
timing is 25 degrees BTDC with clockwise rotation. It seems they
produce their maximum power at about 3000 rpms. I'm wondering if
the new engine will operate at that or a reduced rpm since it's to be
derated. My metal prop doesn't like anything over 2600. :-) Based
on the fuel specs, we may even see an engine use about 7gph, or
less, at 75% power. Now, that would be neat. Recommended oil is
Aeroshell 100 Plus. Must need the additives. Fuel is 100LL or 92
octane mogas. There you go!!!! The type fuel question has been
answered. The warranty on the engines is one year or 200 hours
from startup.
I was looking at the dimensions. The width is 23.9 inches. That's
narrow! The lengths are 21.9 and 24.6 inches resp. That leads me
to believe the eight cylinder engine will be just a few inches more.
Maybe less than 30 inches long. Of course, this is pure speculation.
I hope this helps.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Gunn" <ggunn(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Hey Jim,
Did you know (maybe on the literature) if they have a web site with this
info?
Gary Gunn
Jim Sears wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> You got my curiosity up. I actually have a flyer from the booth at the
> show. However, I didn't realize how much info it had on it. Of
> course, this info is for the four and six cylinder models; but, the
> engines look just alike except for the number of cylinders. With that,
> here's some more info for you.
>
> The two engines include exhaust, starter, starter solenoid, oil cooler,
> alternator, cooling ducts, engine mount bushings, prop guides, and
> regulator. They are air cooled, horizontally opposed, overhead
> valves, direct drive, wet sump lubing, electric starters, double crank
> bearing on prop end. They already have firewall forward kits for
> several homebuilts; so, I'm betting they'll have one for the RV to
> include mounts, as well. Hmmm. Those may come from Van's, if he's
> really after this engine. The 80hp and 120hp engines weigh 123 lbs
> and 161 lbs resp. That means one might actually see an engine of
> about 200lbs at 180hp. They are manufactured from solid steel bar
> stock or aluminum billet. The sump is the only cast part. The ignition
> is dual mags with redundant distributors and plugs. They use
> commonly available NGK plugs.
>
> Since the 80 hp and 120 hp engines are 2200cc and 3300cc resp,
> I'd have to assume the 180hp version will be about 4400cc. Ignition
> timing is 25 degrees BTDC with clockwise rotation. It seems they
> produce their maximum power at about 3000 rpms. I'm wondering if
> the new engine will operate at that or a reduced rpm since it's to be
> derated. My metal prop doesn't like anything over 2600. :-) Based
> on the fuel specs, we may even see an engine use about 7gph, or
> less, at 75% power. Now, that would be neat. Recommended oil is
> Aeroshell 100 Plus. Must need the additives. Fuel is 100LL or 92
> octane mogas. There you go!!!! The type fuel question has been
> answered. The warranty on the engines is one year or 200 hours
> from startup.
>
> I was looking at the dimensions. The width is 23.9 inches. That's
> narrow! The lengths are 21.9 and 24.6 inches resp. That leads me
> to believe the eight cylinder engine will be just a few inches more.
> Maybe less than 30 inches long. Of course, this is pure speculation.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BERNIE KERR" <KERRJB(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF |
No one has mentioned the fact that there was a record breaking number(?) of
rotary powered RVs there. There was always a crowd of folks both around the
airplanes (cowls off) and at the workshop during the airshow that Tracy
Crook did.Tracy was there with his 1000 hour rotary powered 4, Ed
Anderson( on the list, maybe Ed will share his introduction experience with
Van) came with his nice 6A from Charlotte NC, Finn Lassen (on the list) with
his 3, and Chuck Dunlap from Phoenix AZ in his 6.
I think these folks are doing us all a favor for developing and engine
installation that will some day be the engine of choice. I worked jet engine
design for 33 years including the Blackbird engine (J-58) , the F-15 engine,
and the F-16 engine. The basic Mazda engine is absolutely bullet proof
(IMHO) compared to any reciprocating engine including our derated lycomings.
The engine does not break catastrophically, but will loose power and not
restart when seals let go. A real blessing to those who insist on taking to
the skyways!
Bernie Kerr,
PS Had my very yellow RV6 A at SnF Friday through Monday and it was very
happy to have a bath when we got home .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
All it takes is one Google search (or any other search engine).
http://www.jabiru.net.au/
Looks very interesting.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gunn" <ggunn(at)uswest.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate engines
>
>
> Hey Jim,
> Did you know (maybe on the literature) if they have a web site with this
> info?
>
> Gary Gunn
>
>
> Jim Sears wrote:
>
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > You got my curiosity up. I actually have a flyer from the booth at the
> > show. However, I didn't realize how much info it had on it. Of
> > course, this info is for the four and six cylinder models; but, the
> > engines look just alike except for the number of cylinders. With that,
> > here's some more info for you.
> >
> > The two engines include exhaust, starter, starter solenoid, oil cooler,
> > alternator, cooling ducts, engine mount bushings, prop guides, and
> > regulator. They are air cooled, horizontally opposed, overhead
> > valves, direct drive, wet sump lubing, electric starters, double crank
> > bearing on prop end. They already have firewall forward kits for
> > several homebuilts; so, I'm betting they'll have one for the RV to
> > include mounts, as well. Hmmm. Those may come from Van's, if he's
> > really after this engine. The 80hp and 120hp engines weigh 123 lbs
> > and 161 lbs resp. That means one might actually see an engine of
> > about 200lbs at 180hp. They are manufactured from solid steel bar
> > stock or aluminum billet. The sump is the only cast part. The ignition
> > is dual mags with redundant distributors and plugs. They use
> > commonly available NGK plugs.
> >
> > Since the 80 hp and 120 hp engines are 2200cc and 3300cc resp,
> > I'd have to assume the 180hp version will be about 4400cc. Ignition
> > timing is 25 degrees BTDC with clockwise rotation. It seems they
> > produce their maximum power at about 3000 rpms. I'm wondering if
> > the new engine will operate at that or a reduced rpm since it's to be
> > derated. My metal prop doesn't like anything over 2600. :-) Based
> > on the fuel specs, we may even see an engine use about 7gph, or
> > less, at 75% power. Now, that would be neat. Recommended oil is
> > Aeroshell 100 Plus. Must need the additives. Fuel is 100LL or 92
> > octane mogas. There you go!!!! The type fuel question has been
> > answered. The warranty on the engines is one year or 200 hours
> > from startup.
> >
> > I was looking at the dimensions. The width is 23.9 inches. That's
> > narrow! The lengths are 21.9 and 24.6 inches resp. That leads me
> > to believe the eight cylinder engine will be just a few inches more.
> > Maybe less than 30 inches long. Of course, this is pure speculation.
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> > Jim Sears in KY
> > RV-6A N198JS
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Scroggs" <rmscroggs(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question |
I need some help.
I'm having to replace the HS-412 hinge fitting on my HS due to it not being
properly aligned with the center line of the HS rear spar. When a HS-412
fitting
is received, is it already drilled for the rivets that attach it to
the spar? I need to be able to slightly move it on the spar to properly
align it with the other fittings.
I sent a question to Van's but I guess all of the technical people are
at Sun-N-Fun. I'd like to order parts but need an answer on the HS-412
first.
If anybody can remember how they received their part, please let me
know.
Thanks,
Ross Scroggs
Conyers, Ga.
RV-4, Empenage started by somebody else
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Sun-N-Fun |
I sure like the plane, I wished that I would have waited for it ... I am too
far along with my RV-6 to stop now....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS decision (flyeyes how about a product update) |
Thanks to all who responded to my question about handheld GPSs. Several
people suggested one of the PDA solutions but those are also larger than I
want. Guess I'll have to keep waiting for that color GPS III Pilot...
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: American apology |
In a message dated Thu, 12 Apr 2001 9:38:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
writes:
BTW, the Chinese are probably not finding anything new. Due to the
pansy-assed view of the last U.S administration that allowed China to steal
truckloads of secerets and then contribute to their re-election campaign,
they probably already knew what was on board. At least now maybe some
Americans will realize their only intentions are at best self serving and
more likely hostile. I'd give them a little free technology if it make them
trump their best card prematurely. At least now more Americans are aware of
the true nature of of Bill Clinton and Al Gores buddies.
That's correct. I used to work for that pansy assed Bernard Schwartz when I was
employed by Loral. IMO he should be in jail.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM |
Thanks for all the replies on the expiration. It prompted another question. I
remember a thread awhile back from a few folks saying they used MEK to soften
up the mixture a little and make it easier to spread. I'd appreciate thoughts
on the pros and cons of doing this, and whether other solvents also work (I
have plenty of naptha and laquer thinner currently).
Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
Working on Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 vs RV-7 was Sun-N-Fun |
>: MLSRV6(at)aol.com
> I sure like the plane, I wished that I would have waited for it ... I am
too
> far along with my RV-6 to stop now....
Why? I stood around the 7 for a long while discussing the differences
between the two with Gus at Vans. My conclusion was that I was glad I had
the 6...A that is. If you are far along, the benifits of the ease of
building of the 7 is not a factor. Performance wise, the 6 is just as good
if not better with a 180 HP vs the 200 HP in the 7. What is it about the 7
that makes you wih you could go with it?
Ross......defender of the 6....A that is
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
Tail kit, wing kit, and fuselage kit.
Tail complete minus fiberglass, firewall, spars, and F-604 completed.
Everything primered inside. A&P IA built in Wichita Kansas. Must sale due to
buying nearly completed RV-4..
Can build to suit for you (help you that is). Asking $8500.00. Please
contact me online or offline at 316-721-5670 or 316-210-5670(cell) and ask
for Todd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Wiechman" <toddwiechman(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 JIG FOR FREE!! |
RV-4 jig is yours for free. Pick up in Wichita Kansas.Contact me online or
offline at 316-721-5670 or 316-210-5670(cell) and ask for Todd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-seal w/MEK |
Hi Curt:
I used Xylol as a solvent when I used Proseal and it worked great. I didn't
necessarily mix it with the proseal to thin it out, but rather dabbed my
acid brush (which I cut the bristles in half to make it a bit stiffer) in
the Xylol and then used that to smooth out the proseal goo on the rivets,
seams etc. Cleaned up my tools very well too.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM <Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Pre-seal w/MEK
>
>Thanks for all the replies on the expiration. It prompted another question.
I
>remember a thread awhile back from a few folks saying they used MEK to
soften
>up the mixture a little and make it easier to spread. I'd appreciate
thoughts
>on the pros and cons of doing this, and whether other solvents also work (I
>have plenty of naptha and laquer thinner currently).
>
>Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
>RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
>Working on Wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS decision (flyeyes how about a product |
update)(long)
| From: | james freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
on 4/12/01 7:14 PM, BERNIE KERR at KERRJB(at)email.msn.com wrote:
> I looked at control vision's simulation and fell in love with it. Will order
> their package on Monday for my trip to Alaska if James F still likes his. It
> has a color screen (Compaq PDA)that is considerably better in the bright RV
> cockpit. They have a website at www.controlvision.com
>
Happy to oblige.
I have been using the Controlvision/iPAQ combo for 2-3 months now and remain
very happy with it. This represents probably twenty hours of use, about 12
of it actually traveling some place. I have also flown 200+ hours with a
Garmin GPS III pilot and about four or five with a Garmin 195 and one with a
295 in a bubble canopy (Enstrom f28).
Opinions/observations:
-The software is very well thought out, but is is also very complex and it
is best to spend some time studying before attempting to use it solo.
Having said this, a friend watched me play with it (while he flew my
airplane for the most part) for a 4.5 hour cross country leg. Then I handed
it to him and he used it to ferry a cessna 150 about 800 miles with no
problems in spite of never having seen the manual or using any kind of PDA
before.
The iPAQ screen is better in bright sunlight than any I have ever seen. It
is amazingly better than the Garmin 295 which is IMHO annoying and at times
almost unusable under a bubble canopy. The GPS III pilot is also very easy
to read in direct light (much better than the 295)
At night, the iPAQ throws a lot of light to the left, across from the
backlight. This is true even in "night mode" In my Cessna 337, this is
only a problem if the rightseater is using the display. I suspect that
canopy reflections would be annoying at night in an RV, but careful masking
should fix this.
The power requirements of the iPAQ and a separate GPS basically require
using ship's power and multiple cables. This is annoying. In an RV you
could work around this--I visualize a dedicated "cradle" in my RV8 which
should eliminate this problem (assuming the technology isn't obsolete by the
time I fly ;-)) Sometimes I prefer the simplicity of the GPS III pilot,
which works perfectly on top of the yoke in the cessna, getting 12 hours to
a set of AA batteries, and requires no external connections at all (built in
antenna)
The touch screen is a little difficult to use in turbulence, but only a
little. Certainly not as bad as I feared. I rarely use the stylus, but use
the back of a fingernail (with the "pad" of the finger facing me) The iPAQ
doesn't seem to mind.
The iPAQ is the best PDA I have used for non aviation things. Wanna buy a
Palm III cheap? ;-) It has "locked up" unexpectedly twice but reset very
quickly (probably 30 seconds) I have never seen any of the Garmin units
lock up.
The software is rapidly being updated, with updates available on the web.
The latest release has terrain elevation data. The company appears -very-
responsive to customer suggestions IMHO
In short, I would definitely buy it again. I have used it in a C337, C150,
open cockpit (AirCam), and an RV6 (thanks Bernie!). I feel uncomfortable
without it unless I'm in my local area.
James Freeman
> Bernie Kerr, 6A going to Alaska in June!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-seal w/MEK |
I have mixed proseal and MEK.
It does make for a easier to brush on mixture.
having said that, I did not use any thinned proseal between any mating
surfaces on the tank !!
I did use it to brush over rivets and joints. A few brushed on layers
over joints and rivets makes for an even coat and neat looking coverage.
Cutting proseal with MEK will drastically decrease the handling time you
have. i.e. it will set a lot faster
Mix just enough proseal and MEK to handle the things you want to do.
Mix only LITTLE bits of MEK in at the time. Stir vigirously, I found it
takes some stirring to get the MEK properly mixed but once mixed the
proseal would appear a lot more fluid than I expected for the tiny bits
of MEK added.
I was using acid brushes to apply the mixed proseal.
I did not use and naphta or thinner. MEK and proseal seemed to get along
best.
as always, you mileage may vary, test before commiting.
Gert
Kelsonhoffrv9(at)AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all the replies on the expiration. It prompted another question. I
> remember a thread awhile back from a few folks saying they used MEK to soften
> up the mixture a little and make it easier to spread. I'd appreciate thoughts
> on the pros and cons of doing this, and whether other solvents also work (I
> have plenty of naptha and laquer thinner currently).
>
> Curt Hoffman Loveland, OH
> RV-9A (N912WK reserved)
> Working on Wing
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I've had both the 195 and 295. Never had a problem with the yokes.
Larry Bowen
RV-8 fuse
Email: Larry(at)BowenAero.com
Web: http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Moore
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 4:20 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: eBay
>
>
[snip]
The
> 295 is quite large for most yokes. also the yoke mounts that come with or
> can be purchased form Garmin are a JOKE, they are no good at all. I would
> buy a "RAM" mount for whatever GPS I purchased. "RAM" mounts are
> very solid
> and there are a variety of options.
> also color screens draw lots of power, a street pilot 16 hrs on a
> set and a
> colot street pilot 2.5 hrs. That was the bigest reason I did not purchase
> the 295 over the III Pilot.
>
> Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6bldr(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | van,s alternator wiring |
The wiring plug on Van's alternator has a green, white, and black wire.
Which colors correspond to battery, field, and ground? The housing has an
"E"(black wire) "F"(green wire) and "N"(white wire) cast into it. There
were no instructions.
Thanks
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6 engine stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
One more question Jim! Are they carbuerated or injected? Is electronic fuel
injection an option?
Kevin in Wa
The wussy 9 bldr
>Listers,
>
>You got my curiosity up. I actually have a flyer from the booth at the
>
>show. However, I didn't realize how much info it had on it. Of
>course, this info is for the four and six cylinder models; but, the
>engines look just alike except for the number of cylinders. With that,
>
>here's some more info for you.
>
>The two engines include exhaust, starter, starter solenoid, oil cooler,
>
>alternator, cooling ducts, engine mount bushings, prop guides, and
>regulator. They are air cooled, horizontally opposed, overhead
>valves, direct drive, wet sump lubing, electric starters, double crank
>
>bearing on prop end. They already have firewall forward kits for
>several homebuilts; so, I'm betting they'll have one for the RV to
>include mounts, as well. Hmmm. Those may come from Van's, if he's
>really after this engine. The 80hp and 120hp engines weigh 123 lbs
>and 161 lbs resp. That means one might actually see an engine of
>about 200lbs at 180hp. They are manufactured from solid steel bar
>stock or aluminum billet. The sump is the only cast part. The ignition
>
>is dual mags with redundant distributors and plugs. They use
>commonly available NGK plugs.
>
>Since the 80 hp and 120 hp engines are 2200cc and 3300cc resp,
>I'd have to assume the 180hp version will be about 4400cc. Ignition
>timing is 25 degrees BTDC with clockwise rotation. It seems they
>produce their maximum power at about 3000 rpms. I'm wondering if
>the new engine will operate at that or a reduced rpm since it's to be
>derated. My metal prop doesn't like anything over 2600. :-) Based
>on the fuel specs, we may even see an engine use about 7gph, or
>less, at 75% power. Now, that would be neat. Recommended oil is
>Aeroshell 100 Plus. Must need the additives. Fuel is 100LL or 92
>octane mogas. There you go!!!! The type fuel question has been
>answered. The warranty on the engines is one year or 200 hours
>from startup.
>
>I was looking at the dimensions. The width is 23.9 inches. That's
>narrow! The lengths are 21.9 and 24.6 inches resp. That leads me
>to believe the eight cylinder engine will be just a few inches more.
>Maybe less than 30 inches long. Of course, this is pure speculation.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Here's a link to Jabiru's web page, with the 8 cylinder engine:
www.jabiru.net.au/
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
In a message dated 4/13/2001 12:21:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
tcwatson(at)seanet.com writes:
> Here's a link to Jabiru's web page, with the 8 cylinder engine:
>
> www.jabiru.net.au/
>
> Terry
>
its carborated though
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jared Boone" <jboone(at)earfeast.com> |
I have a bit of graphic arts experience, so I'll share what I know or think
I know...
There are more fonts than there are stars in the sky. However, for
readability, you can't really beat a sans-serif font (a font that doesn't
have little hooks and flanges at the ends of the strokes of the letters).
You want a font that is not too heavy/bold -- the spaces (whitespace) in the
letter is just as important as the body of the text. You don't want a font
that's too narrow, as your letters will look more like a series of vertical
lines than letters when viewed at a distance. A font whose thickness is
consistent through the stroke of a letter will also help with visibility --
you know how the strokes of an "O" gets thicker in the vertical portion (the
sides) than along the top of the letter -- that's undesirable. Although it
may seem counterintuitive, labeling using mixed case is usually more
readable than upper-case -- since most people read words by identifying
shape instead of explicitly reading each letter, keeping the shape of the
word as you most commonly read it (i.e. in a newspaper or book) helps
recognition. So use "Magneto" instead of "MAGNETO". Avoid a font like
"Courier" whose characters are all the same width (i.e. a "M" or "W" takes
up the same space in a word as "l" or "i") -- fonts like this make
shape-based recognition more difficult.
As for colors, stick with white, red, yellow, and maybe green. Stay away
from blue, because it does not focus very well on the back of the eye's
retina and will therefore be hard to read.
I'd refer to road signs as examples of readability experimentation. Some
more recent signs I have seen on the road will mix upper and lower-case
letters to help recognition. One example I can think of is a sign that uses
a lower-case "a" in an otherwise all upper-case word. I'm guessing they did
some research and found a lower-case "a" to be more identifiable than an
upper-case "A". This seems to go against what I said earlier about
shape-reading, but who can argue with government research? :-)
As for size, all I can say is that bigger is better, but leave enough space
between labels and other labels or objects so the delineation between words
and objects is clear and a sense of aesthetic "space" is maintained. Test
different font sizes in different ambient light levels and see what's
comfortable...
So, to boil it down, try:
"Arial" or "Helvetica" font (or something similar), medium or medium-light
weight (thickness), mixed-case
Microsoft's supposedly done some heavy research and created "Tahoma" and
"Verdana" which are supposed to be very readable at small sizes (although I
think the intent was "readable on computer screens", not airplane instrument
panels).
Here's some miscellaneous stuff I found on the Web that might provide
further insight:
http://www.signcollege.com/102.htm (good color combinations)
http://members.aol.com/rcmoeur/alphabet.html (road sign fonts)
http://www.psu.edu/ur/archives/intercom_1996/May7/CURRENT/research1.html
(road sign fonts)
I hope this helps...
- Jared Boone
RV-7 Empennage
Beaverton, OR, US
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ross Mickey
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:31 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Panel Fonts
>
>
> I am concidering using backlit labels on my panel. Maybe
> using the Flatlite
> discussed recently. I am wondering if anyone has done a comparison of
> different font styles and sizes for readability and asthetics.
>
> Ross
> 6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Whelen strobe connectors question |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
I was looking through the archives and found a message stating that the
Whelen strobe system "kit from Vans comes with a bunch of AMPCPS-3
connectors." Randy Lervold posted a related message stating "Whelen uses
the AMP Mate-N-Lok series connectors.........Molex brand connectors
crimp the same way but are not compatible with the Mate-N-Lock connectors
or pins at all. You will likely encounter, or want to use, Molex
connectors elsewhere in the plane."
Ok, I'm confused. In Van's catalog under the section for Replacement
parts for strobe systems, they list "Molex Connectors" for the power
supply / cable connection. No reference to any type of AMP connector.
Does this mean that the power supply uses a Molex connector and the
strobe itself uses an AMP connector? Does anyone have pictures on a
webpage of these connectors? Is the Molex or the AMP better for
all-around use on the airframe?
Thanks for input,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A fuse, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF |
Thanks for the report on the 13B. I've watched these folks for a long
time and haven't given much thought to putting one on my airplane
for two reasons. There has been no cookbook produced with parts
to go with it, that I know of. That makes each installation an
experiment. Each installation I saw at Sun-n-Fun was different. I'm
pretty sure that most of us don't want to get into an experiment with
the engine while building our first kits. Secondly, the ones I've seen
usually have an exhaust that looks awful! We go to the trouble to
build a nice airplane only to hang an exhaust under it that extends
well past the cowl. While I appreciate what these guys are doing,
I've decided it isn't the choice for me.
BTW, Pat and I were listening to a conversation between one of the
owners and a builder. The fuel consumption on his 13B is about
4gal/hour at idle to 14 gal/hour at full power. I'm not sure if that's
good or bad. Just a number I heard.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Whelen strobe connectors question |
--- czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> I was looking through the archives and found a message stating that
> the
> Whelen strobe system "kit from Vans comes with a bunch of AMPCPS-3
> connectors." Randy Lervold posted a related message stating "Whelen
> uses
> the AMP Mate-N-Lok series connectors.........Molex brand
> connectors
> crimp the same way but are not compatible with the Mate-N-Lock
> connectors
> or pins at all. You will likely encounter, or want to use, Molex
> connectors elsewhere in the plane."
>
> Ok, I'm confused. In Van's catalog under the section for Replacement
> parts for strobe systems, they list "Molex Connectors" for the power
> supply / cable connection. No reference to any type of AMP
> connector.
> Does this mean that the power supply uses a Molex connector and the
> strobe itself uses an AMP connector? Does anyone have pictures on a
> webpage of these connectors? Is the Molex or the AMP better for
> all-around use on the airframe?
>
> Thanks for input,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A fuse, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
Mark:
Amp and Molex are both manufacturers of a connector that many of us
refer to as "Molex connectors". It is a lot like making a photocopy
and calling it a Xerox. The strobe power supply comes with a mating
connector that has six inches of wire coming out of it. If you take
that connector to Dow Marvac Electronics or for that matter Radio
Shack, you can purchase a pin removal tool, pins, and additional
connectors. Most (or many) electronic supply houses will have Molex
brand, Caltronics, or some other brand of connector. The Strobe does
use a connector that is manufactured by AMP.
Newark Electronics sell the connectors mail order but I do not have the
catalog handy. Newark also has a web site. http://www.newark.com/
Search the catalog for items that contain Molex. May find a photo but
I am not sure.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "netbrick" <netbrick(at)gateway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
Are these Jabiru engines compatible with constant speed props? It would seem
that the extra weight would be needed up front. If so, would any c/s prop
work (that is from the normal selection)?
David Kirby
Griffin, Ga.
RV-6AQB
----- Original Message -----
From: <Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate engines
>
>
> One more question Jim! Are they carbuerated or injected? Is electronic
fuel
> injection an option?
> Kevin in Wa
> The wussy 9 bldr
>
> >Listers,
> >
> >You got my curiosity up. I actually have a flyer from the booth at the
> >
> >show. However, I didn't realize how much info it had on it. Of
> >course, this info is for the four and six cylinder models; but, the
> >engines look just alike except for the number of cylinders. With that,
> >
> >here's some more info for you.
> >
> >The two engines include exhaust, starter, starter solenoid, oil cooler,
> >
> >alternator, cooling ducts, engine mount bushings, prop guides, and
> >regulator. They are air cooled, horizontally opposed, overhead
> >valves, direct drive, wet sump lubing, electric starters, double crank
> >
> >bearing on prop end. They already have firewall forward kits for
> >several homebuilts; so, I'm betting they'll have one for the RV to
> >include mounts, as well. Hmmm. Those may come from Van's, if he's
> >really after this engine. The 80hp and 120hp engines weigh 123 lbs
> >and 161 lbs resp. That means one might actually see an engine of
> >about 200lbs at 180hp. They are manufactured from solid steel bar
> >stock or aluminum billet. The sump is the only cast part. The ignition
> >
> >is dual mags with redundant distributors and plugs. They use
> >commonly available NGK plugs.
> >
> >Since the 80 hp and 120 hp engines are 2200cc and 3300cc resp,
> >I'd have to assume the 180hp version will be about 4400cc. Ignition
> >timing is 25 degrees BTDC with clockwise rotation. It seems they
> >produce their maximum power at about 3000 rpms. I'm wondering if
> >the new engine will operate at that or a reduced rpm since it's to be
> >derated. My metal prop doesn't like anything over 2600. :-) Based
> >on the fuel specs, we may even see an engine use about 7gph, or
> >less, at 75% power. Now, that would be neat. Recommended oil is
> >Aeroshell 100 Plus. Must need the additives. Fuel is 100LL or 92
> >octane mogas. There you go!!!! The type fuel question has been
> >answered. The warranty on the engines is one year or 200 hours
> >from startup.
> >
> >I was looking at the dimensions. The width is 23.9 inches. That's
> >narrow! The lengths are 21.9 and 24.6 inches resp. That leads me
> >to believe the eight cylinder engine will be just a few inches more.
> >Maybe less than 30 inches long. Of course, this is pure speculation.
> >
> >I hope this helps.
> >
> >Jim Sears in KY
> >RV-6A N198JS
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6-List: Sun-N-Fun"Vans Banquet" |
The Banquet was fun and informative I learned the difference between a CEO
and an engineer. Van was the only one that wore a tie, well sort of - you had
to be there. Van talked about the 4 place. He said that the 4 place is
actively under design and will be about 18 mo to 2 years out. The RV7 and RV9
got in the way and slowed down the design. That is what I got out of it. The
4 place is comming. While talking to Tom Green at the display tent about
the 4 place the decision on the engine has not been made yet, Lycoming or
Contintinal Just happen to have won a door prize=
a Rite Angle of Attack, made some new friends. Had a lot of SUN and FUN.
Terry E. Cole N468TC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question |
| From: | pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com |
17, 2001) at 04/13/2001 08:53:31 AM
Hi Ross,
I received my HS-412 hinge fittings undrilled. I remember this because
when I started my -4 (serial #2981), nothing was drilled. Recently, I had
to replace an aileron hinge bracket for similar reasons. I was able to
order from Van's an undrilled bracket. It was not immediately apparent to
the people at Van's that such a part was available, but somebody recalled
its availability and helped me out. You may have similar luck for your
problem. If not, the HS-412 is a simple part and could be fabricated from
sheet stock. The 4130 steel bends much better than aluminum.
Dean
RV-4
Arlington, MA
Moving it to the airport
|--------+---------------------------------->
| | "Ross Scroggs" |
| | |
| | Sent by: |
| | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
| | ronics.com |
| | |
| | |
| | 04/12/01 08:59 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | rv-list |
| | |
|--------+---------------------------------->
|
|
| To:
|
| cc:
|
| bcc:
|
| Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
|
I need some help.
I'm having to replace the HS-412 hinge fitting on my HS due to it not
being
properly aligned with the center line of the HS rear spar. When a HS-412
fitting
is received, is it already drilled for the rivets that attach it to
the spar? I need to be able to slightly move it on the spar to properly
align it with the other fittings.
I sent a question to Van's but I guess all of the technical people are
at Sun-N-Fun. I'd like to order parts but need an answer on the HS-412
first.
If anybody can remember how they received their part, please let me
know.
Thanks,
Ross Scroggs
Conyers, Ga.
RV-4, Empenage started by somebody else
**** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
I had a look at the Jabiru web site, which has a lot more detail now
than when I looked a few months ago. In addition to what's already been
mentioned, some thoughts come to mind.
o Removable prop flange. Lycoming owners with leaky front crankshaft
seals (and I'm sure there are many on this list) will appreciate the
utility of this. I suppose it could be regarded as a liability, too, in
that it is an additional failure mode.
o Integral alternator. The alternator is crankshaft mounted,
eliminating belts, etc. and therefore, presumably, reducing the
probability of failure.
o Integral ignition. The ignition system is similarly crankshaft
mounted, although it uses automotive-style distributors. It appears to
be a fully redundant system, not counting the crankshaft. Seems like a
pretty good way to do it, although one result is a fixed spark advance,
like a traditional magneto system, which compromises efficiency.
o Crankshaft support. It appears that the crankshaft is better
supported than Lycoming cranks. There is a main bearing between each
connecting rod, and thrust bearings (in both directions). Anyone know
if the 320/360 Lycomings have thrust bearings? The 235 I dismantled a
few months ago didn't.
o Valve train lubrication. The valve train is directly lubricated from
the oil galleries, so top end lubrication problems should be less common
than on Lycomings.
o Integral cooling ducts. I didn't find any photos of this, and it's
hard to see exactly how it works, but they claim that it eliminates
baffles and plenums. That's an obvious advantage for homebuilders.
o Carburetors. They don't say anything about intake icing, but
presumably it's as much of a risk as with any carbureted engine.
o Stainless steel exhaust comes with the engine.
o Size. The engine is about 36" long, including the distributors. Can
someone post the length of an O-360? The O-235 in my workshop is about
30" long, prop flange to magnetos, so I assume that the O-360 is
somewhat longer. It doesn't look like the Jabiru is much longer than an
O-360, despite having 8 cylinders.
o Weight. Jabiru says 231 lbs including the exhaust, carburetor,
starter motor, alternator and ignition system, and oil cooler. Surely
that has to be at least 60 or 70 lbs lighter than an O-360? That would
mean that the engine would have to be mounted with its center of mass
about 13" further forward, on an RV-6, to maintain the same aircraft C
of G position. So there would probably have to be a different cowling.
I couldn't tell if it's compatible with a Lycoming engine mount, but
there would probably have to be a different engine mount anyway.
o Hardened valve seats. I'm reading between the lines here, but I
suspect they have designed the engine to work with unleaded fuel.
o Direct drive. The 180 hp Jabiru is not geared, as their smaller
engines are. Displacement is 365 cubic inches. It should be able to
spin the same props an O-360 spins.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Canada
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Scroggs" <rmscroggs(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question |
Thanks Dean,
I was able to find out from Van's that the part was available but they
failed to let me know what the part
number was so I can order on line. Guess I'll have to wait until everybody
gets back for Florida.
Again, thanks,
Ross Scroggs
Conyers, Ga.
RV4 Emp, Ser# 3911
----- Original Message -----
From: <pichon.dean(at)ADLittle.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
>
>
> Hi Ross,
>
> I received my HS-412 hinge fittings undrilled. I remember this because
> when I started my -4 (serial #2981), nothing was drilled. Recently, I had
> to replace an aileron hinge bracket for similar reasons. I was able to
> order from Van's an undrilled bracket. It was not immediately apparent to
> the people at Van's that such a part was available, but somebody recalled
> its availability and helped me out. You may have similar luck for your
> problem. If not, the HS-412 is a simple part and could be fabricated from
> sheet stock. The 4130 steel bends much better than aluminum.
>
> Dean
> RV-4
> Arlington, MA
> Moving it to the airport
>
>
> |--------+---------------------------------->
> | | "Ross Scroggs" |
> | | |
> | | Sent by: |
> | | owner-rv-list-server@mat|
> | | ronics.com |
> | | |
> | | |
> | | 04/12/01 08:59 PM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | rv-list |
> | | |
> |--------+---------------------------------->
> |
|
> | To:
|
> | cc:
|
> | bcc:
|
> | Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question
|
>
>
> I need some help.
>
> I'm having to replace the HS-412 hinge fitting on my HS due to it not
> being
> properly aligned with the center line of the HS rear spar. When a HS-412
> fitting
> is received, is it already drilled for the rivets that attach it to
> the spar? I need to be able to slightly move it on the spar to properly
> align it with the other fittings.
> I sent a question to Van's but I guess all of the technical people are
> at Sun-N-Fun. I'd like to order parts but need an answer on the HS-412
> first.
> If anybody can remember how they received their part, please let me
> know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Scroggs
> Conyers, Ga.
> RV-4, Empenage started by somebody else
>
>
> **** This message is from Arthur D. Little, Inc., and/or one of
> Arthur D. Little's subsidiaries or affiliates and may contain
> confidential business information. It is intended for the addressee
> only and may not be copied without our permission. If you are not
> the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible.****
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Horizontal Stab. Question |
Ross Scroggs wrote:
>
> I need some help.
>
> I'm having to replace the HS-412 hinge fitting on my HS due to it not being
> properly aligned with the center line of the HS rear spar. When a HS-412
> fitting
> is received, is it already drilled for the rivets that attach it to
> the spar? I need to be able to slightly move it on the spar to properly
> align it with the other fittings.
> I sent a question to Van's but I guess all of the technical people are
> at Sun-N-Fun. I'd like to order parts but need an answer on the HS-412
> first.
> If anybody can remember how they received their part, please let me
> know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Scroggs
> Conyers, Ga.
> RV-4, Empenage started by somebody else
>
Don't know about now, but when I built mine I had to drill the holes in the
fittings. And everything else as far as I can remember.
Carroll Bird Buffalo Gap Tx. 150 hours and counting.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate engines |
I helped my neighbor with the wiring on his 4-cylinder Jabiru-powered Sonex,
so I've had a chance to see it up close.
None of the Jabiru engines are geared. They are all direct-drive. The
carburetors are little doohickeys that look like they came off a motorcycle.
They are Bing, and, as I recall, that's a brand that's common on
motorcycles. They are pressure-compensating, and have no manual mixture
adjustment (it's automatic).
The ignition and the alternator share a set of high-tech magnets that are
attached to a little ring gear with starter teeth on the back of the engine,
so all those parts are really quite integrated. The ignition is both
electronic and a magneto, so it has a huge hot spark, but doesn't care
whether you've got a battery or not. The hot spark means it can use
ordinary NGK plugs like go in your Honda, and you can buy them at the local
parts store (or Wal-Mart).
The cooling ducts aren't exactly integral, but they come with the engine.
They're compact bubble-looking fiberglass things that bolt onto the heads
and cylinders, and have a little tube coming out the front to connect with
the cowl inlets. There are little grommeted holes where the top spark plugs
poke through, so you can change the plugs without having to remove them.
All in all it's a very pretty-looking package, with fit and finish
reminiscent of one of those huge Honda bikes.
My neighbor Dave is a minister, so he gets to stay home on weekdays to work
on his plane. One morning leaving for work I spotted a truck unloading a
small crate in his driveway, and by the time I got home from work he had it
bolted on and just about all hooked up. He got somebody to help him pick it
up, and I don't think they even needed a hoist.
When I saw it I said "I sure wish they had one of these big enough for my
RV!"
It didn't start the first time he turned the key, so he tried again and it
fired right up. He almost didn't think it started because it was so quiet,
but the prop kept going round and round. The neighbors didn't complain when
he ran it up in his driveway. They never noticed.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tedd McHenry [mailto:tedd(at)vansairforce.org]
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:01 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate engines
>
>
>
> I had a look at the Jabiru web site, which has a lot more detail now
> than when I looked a few months ago. In addition to what's
> already been
> mentioned, some thoughts come to mind.
>
> o Removable prop flange. Lycoming owners with leaky front crankshaft
> seals (and I'm sure there are many on this list) will appreciate the
> utility of this. I suppose it could be regarded as a
> liability, too, in
> that it is an additional failure mode.
>
> o Integral alternator. The alternator is crankshaft mounted,
> eliminating belts, etc. and therefore, presumably, reducing the
> probability of failure.
>
> o Integral ignition. The ignition system is similarly crankshaft
> mounted, although it uses automotive-style distributors. It
> appears to
> be a fully redundant system, not counting the crankshaft.
> Seems like a
> pretty good way to do it, although one result is a fixed
> spark advance,
> like a traditional magneto system, which compromises efficiency.
>
> o Crankshaft support. It appears that the crankshaft is better
> supported than Lycoming cranks. There is a main bearing between each
> connecting rod, and thrust bearings (in both directions). Anyone know
> if the 320/360 Lycomings have thrust bearings? The 235 I dismantled a
> few months ago didn't.
>
> o Valve train lubrication. The valve train is directly
> lubricated from
> the oil galleries, so top end lubrication problems should be
> less common
> than on Lycomings.
>
> o Integral cooling ducts. I didn't find any photos of this, and it's
> hard to see exactly how it works, but they claim that it eliminates
> baffles and plenums. That's an obvious advantage for homebuilders.
>
> o Carburetors. They don't say anything about intake icing, but
> presumably it's as much of a risk as with any carbureted engine.
>
> o Stainless steel exhaust comes with the engine.
>
> o Size. The engine is about 36" long, including the
> distributors. Can
> someone post the length of an O-360? The O-235 in my
> workshop is about
> 30" long, prop flange to magnetos, so I assume that the O-360 is
> somewhat longer. It doesn't look like the Jabiru is much
> longer than an
> O-360, despite having 8 cylinders.
>
> o Weight. Jabiru says 231 lbs including the exhaust, carburetor,
> starter motor, alternator and ignition system, and oil cooler. Surely
> that has to be at least 60 or 70 lbs lighter than an O-360?
> That would
> mean that the engine would have to be mounted with its center of mass
> about 13" further forward, on an RV-6, to maintain the same aircraft C
> of G position. So there would probably have to be a
> different cowling.
> I couldn't tell if it's compatible with a Lycoming engine mount, but
> there would probably have to be a different engine mount anyway.
>
> o Hardened valve seats. I'm reading between the lines here, but I
> suspect they have designed the engine to work with unleaded fuel.
>
> o Direct drive. The 180 hp Jabiru is not geared, as their smaller
> engines are. Displacement is 365 cubic inches. It should be able to
> spin the same props an O-360 spins.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
> Canada
> RV-6
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Everybody went to S & F except me! |
Jim,
You are oh so right!!!
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Bower <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com>
> Anyhoo, that's why Van's makes RVs in so many flavors, right? At least we
> have to study plans, measure, make jigs, measure, drill, measure, sweat,
> measure, and curse to build our airplanes like real men do! (Instead of
> those wussy -7 & -9 guys!)
>
> Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
After looking at the website and reading this post, it looks like the 8 cyl
has 2 carbuerators feeding a common intake plenum in the sump? Looks like a
good idea, if I am reading this right.
Looks like a great engine for the 7
Kevin -9A finishing
already thinking about building another one
> I helped my neighbor with the wiring on his 4-cylinder Jabiru-powered Sonex,
> so I've had a chance to see it up close.
>
> None of the Jabiru engines are geared. They are all direct-drive. The
> carburetors are little doohickeys that look like they came off a
motorcycle.
> They are Bing, and, as I recall, that's a brand that's common on
> motorcycles. They are pressure-compensating, and have no manual mixture
> adjustment (it's automatic).
>
> The ignition and the alternator share a set of high-tech magnets that are
> attached to a little ring gear with starter teeth on the back of the
engine,
> so all those parts are really quite integrated. The ignition is both
> electronic and a magneto, so it has a huge hot spark, but doesn't care
> whether you've got a battery or not. The hot spark means it can use
> ordinary NGK plugs like go in your Honda, and you can buy them at the local
> parts store (or Wal-Mart).
>
> The cooling ducts aren't exactly integral, but they come with the engine.
> They're compact bubble-looking fiberglass things that bolt onto the heads
> and cylinders, and have a little tube coming out the front to connect with
> the cowl inlets. There are little grommeted holes where the top spark
plugs
> poke through, so you can change the plugs without having to remove them.
>
> All in all it's a very pretty-looking package, with fit and finish
> reminiscent of one of those huge Honda bikes.
>
> My neighbor Dave is a minister, so he gets to stay home on weekdays to work
> on his plane. One morning leaving for work I spotted a truck unloading a
> small crate in his driveway, and by the time I got home from work he had it
> bolted on and just about all hooked up. He got somebody to help him pick
it
> up, and I don't think they even needed a hoist.
>
> When I saw it I said "I sure wish they had one of these big enough for my
> RV!"
>
> It didn't start the first time he turned the key, so he tried again and it
> fired right up. He almost didn't think it started because it was so quiet,
> but the prop kept going round and round. The neighbors didn't complain
when
> he ran it up in his driveway. They never noticed.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: 4 rotary powered RV's at SnF |
In a message dated 4/13/01 7:06:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sears(at)searnet.com writes:
> BTW, Pat and I were listening to a conversation between one of the
> owners and a builder. The fuel consumption on his 13B is about
> 4gal/hour at idle to 14 gal/hour at full power. I'm not sure if that's
> good or bad. Just a number I heard.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> RV-6A N198JS
>
>
>
I had an association with the Mazda factory racing team during the late 80's
and early 90's. They ran 2 and 4 rotor engines on their GTP-light and GTO
cars, respectively. The primary advantage of the rotary is that it is dead
reliable it is very hard to make one suddenly fail. Racers don't really
care, but the engines are very smooth running too.
The biggest problems they had were exhaust heat and fuel efficiency. This is
because the rotary engine's cycle is somewhat like a two stroke, with unburnt
fuel in the exhaust gasses. This burns in the exhaust system, and contributes
to very high EGT's. In the end, they solved the heat related exhaust
problems with with Inconel X exhaust systems, ceramic coatings, heat shields,
and by promoting cooling airflow around the exhaust. They just had to deal
with the fuel efficiency issue. It was what really prevented the rotary
engine from being widely used in the automotive world.
With a well developed reduction drive and exhaust system, I think the rotary
will be a fine engine for aviation applications. The air cooled engines we
typically use are not that fuel efficient anyway, so the rotaries
aren't too bad in comparison.
Kyle Boatright - Kennesaw, GA
RV-6 Slider, O-320/Aymar-Demuth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hughes" <rv6tc(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: i'm sorry too |
What does the word "culpability" mean to you? The person that lost his life
was directly responsible for this entire mess. During an interception, who
do you think is responsible for the separation of aircraft? Someone was
"shining his ass" as my former Squadron Commander used to say, and paid for
it with his life. That's aviation. You break the rules, and eventually it
will get you. And if you don't think the attitude of the mishap pilot is
not directly applicable to flying any aircraft, especially one with the
flight characteristics of the RV series, then perhaps you should take up
boating.
Keith Hughes
Capt. Emeritus, United States Air Force
----- Original Message -----
From: Iain Box <boxerino(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: i'm sorry too
>
> Do not forget that someone has tragically lost their lives in this
> international incident. It is appalling that this kind of attitude is
> expressed on this list. I can think of many more suitable websites where
> this kind of narrowminded, grade school philosophy belongs.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com> |
| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Baffling |
Here are a couple pictures of the ram air scoops that come with the Jab
3300...
http://www.sonexlinks.com/builders/dfortuna/dave1.jpg
http://www.sonex-ltd.com/images/3300_swap_082300.jpg
Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO
RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage
http://vondane.com/rv8a/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Whelen strobe connectors question |
Mark,
I am not absolutely sure about this, but my understanding is that
"Mate-N-Lock Universal" connectors are compatible with Molex connectors.
The "Mate-N-Lock Commercial" connectors are not. Also, Molex is sometimes
used as a generic description of this type of "soft connector".
Ken Harrill
RV-6, electrical
Guys,
I was looking through the archives and found a message stating that the
Whelen strobe system "kit from Vans comes with a bunch of AMPCPS-3
connectors." Randy Lervold posted a related message stating "Whelen uses
the AMP Mate-N-Lok series connectors.........Molex brand connectors
crimp the same way but are not compatible with the Mate-N-Lock connectors
or pins at all. You will likely encounter, or want to use, Molex
connectors elsewhere in the plane."
Ok, I'm confused. In Van's catalog under the section for Replacement
parts for strobe systems, they list "Molex Connectors" for the power
supply / cable connection. No reference to any type of AMP connector.
Does this mean that the power supply uses a Molex connector and the
strobe itself uses an AMP connector? Does anyone have pictures on a
webpage of these connectors? Is the Molex or the AMP better for
all-around use on the airframe?
Thanks for input,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A fuse, O-360-A4A, Sensenich 87"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
List:
I guess my main concern with a newly developed engine is that there is no
track record to determine its reliability. No slam on Jabiru, just being
cautious. How have the 4 and 6 cylinder models been doing durability-wise?
I have heard plenty of encouraging words about the engine, but are there any
weak areas that have surfaced in the engines that are out there flying?
Inquiring minds want to know.......
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse....and considering engine options......
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SixShooters1(at)AOL.COM |
Listers,
I have an F-1 Rocket that is for sale. I am interested in building it for
someone. I currently have another one in my shop currently being built and
would like to build this one along with it. If you have any interest, please
respond off-line.
Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Shook" <billshook(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
This is all very true...no track record. That already puts it head and
shoulders above the lycoming reputation. :-) Sorry I had to.
Bill
-4 wings
>
> List:
>
> I guess my main concern with a newly developed engine is that there is no
> track record to determine its reliability. No slam on Jabiru, just being
> cautious. How have the 4 and 6 cylinder models been doing
durability-wise?
> I have heard plenty of encouraging words about the engine, but are there
any
> weak areas that have surfaced in the engines that are out there flying?
> Inquiring minds want to know.......
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse....and considering engine options......
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Everybody went to S & F except me! |
In a message dated 4/12/01 10:08:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Im7shannon(at)AOL.COM writes:
> But you will still be a wussy!
> >
> Im detecting a hint of jealousy here... from some clipped wing enviers...!
> Kevin -9A soon to be flying wussy
>
>
>
I'm not jealous in the least bit, all I was doing was finishing what you said.
PS my RV-4 is done..finished, there is nothing clipped about me
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <DonH(at)axonn.com> |
| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Baffling |
The first link is to Dave Fortuna's plane. He's the neighbor I helped with
wiring. The aluminum parts on the ram scoops are his modifications to make
them fit the Sonex cowling. I'm not sure what they originally lookes like
since the first time I saw them was after it was done.
BTW, he complained a lot about how hard it was to fit the Sonex cowling, but
he had it all done in a couple of weeks...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bvondane(at)cso.atmel.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:43 AM
> To: Rv8list@Egroups; Rv-List
> Subject: RV-List: Jabiru Engine Baffling
>
>
>
> Here are a couple pictures of the ram air scoops that come
> with the Jab
> 3300...
>
> http://www.sonexlinks.com/builders/dfortuna/dave1.jpg
> http://www.sonex-ltd.com/images/3300_swap_082300.jpg
>
> Bill VonDane, Colorado Springs, CO
> RV-8A, N8VD, Fuselage
> http://vondane.com/rv8a/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltab(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: MicroMonitor MAP sensor installation |
See Below.
I got a Wells MAP at Auto Zone (they're on the web, and around
the corner) for less than the NAPA one. I let the guy at RMI
know, but I don't know if he has tested it yet.
Upon further review:
> >
> > I have a couple of answers for you.
> > To get the map sensor, you can ask for one from a 91 GMC Syclone. I'd
> > assume the same was true for the connector at the dealer. Someone
> > mentioned in the archives that they were able to obtain a proper
> > connector. Keep in mind the Syclone was an extremely limited model.
> > More RVs are flying, and maybe as many 6/6A's.
> >
> > The aftermarket approach for the connector was pep boys. They had a
> > selection of replacement weather sealed GM type connectors from
> > motormite. Conduct-tite was their electric parts line. My first
> > approach was to get the 85146 A/C Pressure switch socket. It was
> > closest to the oddball keyway in the NAPA MAP sensor. There are two
> > possible drawbacks that I noticed. The pins are already crimped and
> > pigtailed. The other is that there is no slot in the 85146 for the key
> > in the MAP sensor for 'C' conductor although the 'B' conductor key and
> > slot mate up and the 'A' position is unkeyed. I took it upon myself to
> > add a slot in the connector to match the key at 'C' and terminated the
> > other ends of the pigtail at the microMonitor card edge conector. This
> > is the setup I used to determine that the NAPA sensor wasn't working
> > which started the quest for the replacement. With some effort and a
> > tool from the conduct-tite 85360 extraction set, I was able to remove
> > the pins with pigtails from the 85146 connector. Not suprisingly, these
> > pins are similar to the uncrimped ones provided in the RMI kit.
> >
> > The best thing I discovered was on all 3 aftermarket MAP sensors that I
> > have, the insert that has the keys molded in it is easily removed with
> > needle nose pliers. This certainly requires less effort than extracting
> > pins and slotting connectors. Without the insert, any of the three
> > conductor enviromental GM connectors should work. I was even able to
> > install the 1 Bar Wells insert with the 2 Bar Wells and NAPA MAP
> > sensors. In this configuation, even the green conduct-tite connector
> > labled "MAP Sensor" (sorry, I don't have the number) would work.
> >
> > There are also two "generic" connectors that have precrimped and
> > uncrimped pins that might be best for us. Unfortunately I don't have
> > their part numbers or remember what the slot/key configuration is. (I
> > know it's NOT the 2 Bar sensor configuration, else that would have been
> > my first choice.) I think the best bet would be to remove the sensor
> > insert, file off the unwanted keys, reinstall the insert, and use
> > whatever connector you want. Looks like the insert is required to
> > effect the enviromental seal and I wouldn't remove it permanently.
> >
> > My GM shop manual calls these connectors "Weather-Pack Connectors", says
> > to use extraction tool J-28742, BT-8234A or equivalent, and states
> > "Replacement connectors and terminals are listed in group 8.965 of the
> > Standard Parts Catalog."
> >
> > Bernie
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote:
>
>
> Quick questions. Of those of you with MicroMonitors what type of tubing did
> you use to connect the map sensor to the cylinder? How did you make the
> connection at the cylinder end and the MAP sensor end? Also does anyone
> know if there is a molex-type connector available for the NAPA MAP sensor
> that MicroMonitor sells? Thanks!
>
>
--
Go Pens!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <tcwatson(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate engines |
About the Jaibaru ...
Kenmore Air Harbor here rebuilds Beavers, sometimes putting turbines in
them. The nose gets extended way out front with the conversion. One day I
noticed one without the cowl and was startled to realize that the actual
engine was a tiny little thing; the long cowl was obviously just to get it
way out front to make up for the substantially less weight than the big
radial that it had replaced. So maybe an RV with the Jaibaru would look
more like a Harmon Rocket or F1 Rocket.
Has anyone heard anything recently about the Powersport Mazda 13B
conversion? This is supposed to be the firewall forward kit for RV's. No
word about it at Sun N Fun; nothing new on their website.
Terry
RV-8A fuselage
Seattle
>
> The only negative I see is the lack
> of weight that needs to be taken care of. I'm sure we can find a fix
> for that. Let's just hope we can save most of that weight savings for
> fuel, etc. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)AOL.COM |
Hey folks,
Lots of posts in the archives but nothing concrete as far as what is
REALLY necessary. What is the REAL scoop on what blast tubes I need? I worked
really hard to minimize all the clearances on my engine baffles and here I am
ready to punch 5 (count 'em) 11/16ths holes in them. I planned to run the
tubes to 1 - alternator, 2 - left mag, 3 - right Lightspeed Elect. Ign., 4 -
vacuum pump, 5 - fuel pump. From you guys flying...........what do I need,
what is just 'nice to have,' and what am I wasting my time on?
Thanks in advance.
Rick Gray RV6AB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
please please please archive pretty please
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltab(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: The Importance of Clear Communication!!! |
How's this for clear communication. An actual link!!!
http://www.eaa617.org/images/Hangarfull.jpg
Bernie C.
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> I sent this back to chuck, But in case he isn't hanging out at his e-mail.
> The picture is posted at www.eaa617.org Click on the Whoops link on the
> left. Or www.eaa617.org/Whoops.htm
>
> Thanks Chuck for sharing it with us. It is cute.
>
> Tim Bryan
--
Go Pens!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Here's my two cents worth. The tubes to the alternator and the right mag
are needed unless you fly in only a cold weather area. I talked to Klaus
and he was clear that the newer versions of the LSE ignition module don't
need the cooling air anymore. And the tubes to the vacumn and fuel pumps
are luxury items. Some may disagree about the vacumn pump but I haven't
seen it have a big effect over the years.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A
>From: RGray67968(at)AOL.COM
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Blast tubes
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:36:39 EDT
>
>
>Hey folks,
> Lots of posts in the archives but nothing concrete as far as what
>is
>REALLY necessary. What is the REAL scoop on what blast tubes I need? I
>worked
>really hard to minimize all the clearances on my engine baffles and here I
>am
>ready to punch 5 (count 'em) 11/16ths holes in them. I planned to run the
>tubes to 1 - alternator, 2 - left mag, 3 - right Lightspeed Elect. Ign., 4
>-
>vacuum pump, 5 - fuel pump. From you guys flying...........what do I need,
>what is just 'nice to have,' and what am I wasting my time on?
>Thanks in advance.
>Rick Gray RV6AB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
>please please please archive pretty please
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)micron.net> |
Unfortunately what may be necessary on one airframe/engine combo may be
useless on another. For example, some people have great success with a
firewall mounted oil cooler, others need to have it mounted on the baffle.
I know of RV's that have NO blast tubes of any kind that run fine. I have
all 5 that you mention, plus a 6th for the gascolator. Any or all of these
may be necessary or not, but it makes me more comfortable to have 'em.
Also, it certainly can't hurt the life expectancy to have air blowing on all
of these expensive parts.
I don't have any cylinder or oil cooling trouble, so having all of these
blast tubes makes sense to me.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 400+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)micron.net
> Hey folks,
> Lots of posts in the archives but nothing concrete as far as what
is
> REALLY necessary. What is the REAL scoop on what blast tubes I need? I
worked
> really hard to minimize all the clearances on my engine baffles and here I
am
> ready to punch 5 (count 'em) 11/16ths holes in them. I planned to run the
> tubes to 1 - alternator, 2 - left mag, 3 - right Lightspeed Elect. Ign.,
4 -
> vacuum pump, 5 - fuel pump. From you guys flying...........what do I
need,
> what is just 'nice to have,' and what am I wasting my time on?
> Thanks in advance.
> Rick Gray RV6AB (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm
> please please please archive pretty please
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Whelen Strobe connector |
Someone was looking for Whelen strobe connectors. I posted a previous
message about Molex and nylong connectors being similar to Xerox and
photocopies.
I am at the hangar checking my spare part numbers.
I purchased from Signal Electronics in Torrance CA Caltronics 3 circuit
- Free hanging general purpose "mate-n-kock" connector in a package for
$2.49 abour 6 years ago when I was building.
on the back of the package:
product manufactured by AMP
distributed by:
Caltronics
Canoga Park, CA 91304
Back on the front, the Caltronics part number is 40-223
AMP P/N: 480306 PIN HOUSING
AMP P/N: 480303 SOCKET HOUSING
This connector comes with contacts for that price. Contacts are the
pin (male) and socket (female).
I also purchased extra contacts.
socket contacts Caltronics number 40-201
AMP P/N 60619-1 $5.19 for 25 pieces
pin contacts Caltronics number 40-202
AMP P/N 60620-1
Many of the AMP and Molex connectors were used in my airplane. I have
a 2 conductor connector that is similar that came from Radio Shack
Cat. No. 274-222. This will NOT mate but is a similar design.
I purchased spare parts (contacts and housings) when I built the
airplane along with the tools to remove the contacts.
Hope this helps.
If I was home, I would use my DSL connection to do a search and locate
but I only connect at 24000 bps at the hangar due to a noisey phone
line.
====
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | deltab(at)erols.com |
| Subject: | Re: Micro Monitor MAP SENSOR connector |
Just search out the 91 GMC Syclone. Some turbo pontiacs used
the 2 Bar sensors too.
Bernie C.
Make sure that 70's GM car you're looking for had FI. I doubt
there were any carb models with the MAP sensor.
theslumlord wrote:
>
>
> The map sensor that comes with the Micro Monitor fits early to mid 70's
> Chev- Buick- Olds. Your best bet is to go to a junk yard with your sensor
> in one hand and wire cutters in the other. You will have to go thru several
> cars to find the exact connector you need.
>
> Ralph Bookout, Slumlord
> RV6 finishing- Visalia, CA
>
--
Go Pens!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)AOL.COM |
Does anyone have a comment on Van's wiring kit? Is it worth it or do I end
April 06, 2001 - April 13, 2001
RV-Archive.digest.vol-kn