RV-Archive.digest.vol-nc
July 09, 2002 - July 17, 2002
>
> "Van Artsdalen, Scott"
> (at)matronics.com on 07/09/2002
> 12:52:48 PM
>
> Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
> To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: A&E Hogwash
>
>
> Scott"
>
>
> My wife turned the TV off because she got tired of
> hearing me yelling.
>
> In a somber, serious tone: "It is estimated that at
> least one small
> aircraft
> crashes each day. This is equivalent to 3 jumbo
> jets crashing per year.
> If
> that were happening, people would be screaming for
> change." That was some
> "industry expert." I guess he doesn't know how many
> cars crash per day. I
> wonder how many Greyhound buses that adds up to?
> That show was a huge
> piece
> of excrement, in my never to be humble opinion.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Manager
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
> [mailto:Vanremog(at)aol.com]
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: A&E Hogwash
>
>
> Boy kids-
>
> What a hatchet job was done to GA in that one hour.
> I was dumbfounded and
> I
>
> just don't know what to say except good googly
> moogly have we got a PR
> problem?
>
> To get some reference point, it would have been
> beneficial to know how
> other
>
> sporting pursuits (boating, hunting, four-wheeling,
> football, soccer,
> bicycling, surfing, kayaking, strength training,
> mountain climbing, etc.)
> measure up as far as injury numbers? I thought we
> had highway deaths of
> 40,000/yr. This is a big country and the injury
> rate stated for GA just
> doesn't strike me right away as that high.
>
> I do suppose that if we all just stayed home, sat on
> the couch and watched
> TV, like they seem to want us to, we could all just
> die peacefully of blood
> clots or hardening of the arteries.
>
> Rant off.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 532hrs)
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <Rob(at)RobsGlass.com> |
Quote
Just my 2 cents about chromed aluminum parts in general. In a past life
I
used to do annuals on GA aircraft, and as stated, no A&P should sign off
a
chromed aluminum part. The reasons are quite simple. Aluminum cannot
be
directly chromed, as chrome will only stick to ferrous metals.
Copper is a ferrous metal!!!!!!!!? No wonder A & P's get derogatory
comments from some of the listers.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DON'T DO THIS! (and a fuel drain question) |
| From: | tlutgring(at)juno.com |
The drain flange is tapped all the way through, and it is a tapered
thread. It will work this way, but the nut will stick out from the flange
more than the picture on the plans show. If you want the nut to sit tight
against the flange, You can tap the flange out a little bit more with a
1/8-27 pipe tap (Sears craftsman part number 952791 About $5.00).
Should be a little less drag this way.
This will still leave the drain the lowest point in the tank, The drain
inlet will not be above the top of the flange
Tom RV-9A
tanks complete.
writes:
>
> First the fuel drain question...I installed the drain in my first
> fuel tank
> by basically tightening the crap out of it. It still stands out
> more than I
> would have expected:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020708_drain.jpg
>
> Is this normal? I assume so, but let me know so I can sleep better.
> Ok,
> now for the "DON'T DO THIS" column for the day.
>
> I'm installing flop tubes in my tanks, and a few weeks ago I
> fabricated and
> drilled the attach angle for my first tank. The plans didn't really
> say
> much about the flop tube installation or where exactly to drill the
> six
> rivet holes to attach the angle to the inboard rib. The plans just
> kind of
> *suggest* where they should go. So I drilled 'em where it looked
> right, and
> where it looked like there was good clearance and all that.
>
> Well, today I went to actually rivet and seal the sucker on there,
> and check
> out what I found:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20020708.html
>
> The rivets totally interfered with the flop tube fitting nut! Dang!
> Well,
> I thought I was going to have to leave those holes and drill two new
> ones,
> just filling the gaping holes with Proseal. That would suck. I'm
> sure it
> would seal, but it would be ugly and lurking in the back of my
> mind.
>
> But after a few minutes of cursing and brainstorming, I realized
> that I
> could countersink those holes and use AN426AD4-7 flush head rivets
> in
> there...and that's what I ended up doing. It all worked out, but
> the moral
> of the story is:
>
> TAKE CARE when drilling those rivet holes!!! Think before you
> drill!
>
> Ok, enough from me...
> )_( Dan
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying builders going to OshKosh |
Are 8's the only RVs going? How about a meeting of 6's ?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Used pneumatic rivet squeezer |
I have a used pneumatic rivet squeezer for sale. I'm not sure what to ask
for it, just offer a fair price. It will come with a two flat heads for
squeezing flush rivets. I'm not selling any of my dimple dies or other head
that fit my handheld squeezer. I'll try to get some pics in a day or two.
I'll also get the manufacturer and all that good stuff. It's in good
working order.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Manager
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
It seems that the old adage " Each Generation has to make the mistakes all
over again " is alive and well .
The mistakes made in the '80 's are being repeated .
A comm antenna in a RV wingtip will be shaded in one direction !! One young
RV'er was killed - probably because he failed to hear a transmissing in his
group . The group turned toward him and he took abrupt evasive action - spun
in and burned !!!
Communication is so VITAL that compromises should NOT be made for less
drag,etc.
Hoping this helps someone stay alive ,
Bob Olds < oldsfolks(at)aol.com > RV-4 , N1191X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Warren <warrenkm(at)mindspring.com> |
I am starting to think that I will not have enough time to finish my RV-8 any time
soon. I mean, it took me 6 months just to finish the emp. My original plan
was to get tailwheel time during the building process but I'm at the point of
buying a built RV4 for enjoyment. I have about 100 hours total with a complex
endorsement and will probably take finish up my IFR work this fall. I have been
considering starting to look in the early spring to buy. What should I expect
from an insurance company? It seems that no one around here has a tail dragger
to rent (baltimore, MD). Is there any way I can buy an RV4 and get instruction
in that aircraft - say, conditional coverage? I would love to hear any and
all and any experiences here if I could. I imagine there are other builders
out there wondering the same.
Thanks,
Kevin Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
| Subject: | Chrome spinner shop |
As far as I know, all chrome plating involves electrolytic processes
(including copper and nickel prior to chrome) which is a factor in hydrogen
imbrittlement. I know of no chrome plating in any critical structural
applications and this is the primary reason. I am presenting this
information to those thinking of chrome plating control sticks and the like.
These parts are generally designed with plenty of margin; so any potential
(and minimal) compromise to their structural integrity (like that induced by
chrome plating) is likely irrelevant. But ...... the argument remains.
One alternative is electroless nickel for ferrous parts. MIL-C-26074 covers
electroless nickel and adds a 375 degree F post bake just to make sure there
is no residual hydrogen. I personally have chosen to electroless nickel all
ferrous parts of my airframe and external engine bits.
That being said, modern processes do now put chrome on aluminum very well
(generally aesthetic applications), and Art Brass in Seattle (206 767 4443)
is known as a very good shop. Sorry I can't lend any information specific
to your request for a "non-motorcycle shop".
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott" <scott(at)hecenter.com> |
I recently received my RV7A Quickbuild kit from Vans. In the process of
fitting things(like the landing gear weldment) I noticed that the
alignment of the front and rear carry-thru spar did not line up as well
as they should. I made up some hardware store bolts with the threads
ground off and they would go in but they took quite a bit of force. The
close tolerance bolts would not go in at all. I spoke with Ken Krueger
at Vans and after a few discussions it was decided that the front spar
should be drilled out, the wings installed and bolted to bring
everything into alignment...then re-rivet. Being a newbie I was a little
intimidated.
Mitch Lock to the rescue!!! Mitch is on his third RV, and I barrage him
regularly with questions. He offered to help Ken out and come drill out
the spar and re-rivet. This past Sunday he did just that, and my baby is
good as new. Mitch called Ken at Vans to advise him of the status of
things and Ken asked Mitch how much Vans owed him...Mitch declined any
remuneration!
I just want to thank Ken at Vans for taking care of this problem and
Mitch for volunteering to help.
Just one more great example of Van's support and the support of the RV
builders...
Thanks Again Guys,
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole |
List, I remember From somewhere in the back of my Cluttered Builders
Brain that the wiring access hole Vans provides in the RV6-A-QB spar can
be enlarged? How Much?
Can you drill another access hole above the spar in the
fuselage support that the spar bolts to? I have more wires than ready
access forward of the spar seems to permit. The supplied hole is 9/16 of
an inch.
Tom in Ohio
"One wire at a Time"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole |
What worked for me is a rectangular slot in both wings. Meaning when you
put the wings on, a rectangular slot would be split down the middle where
the wings meet. Then put a corresponding slot on the main carry through
F604. This way you have all of your wires running through, but you can
still take off your wings if necessary, without cutting any wires. To
answer your question, yes you can enlarge that hole. The spar web there can
be cut to your needs (within reason) for wires.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
> List, I remember From somewhere in the back of my Cluttered Builders
> Brain that the wiring access hole Vans provides in the RV6-A-QB spar can
> be enlarged? How Much?
> Can you drill another access hole above the spar in the
> fuselage support that the spar bolts to? I have more wires than ready
> access forward of the spar seems to permit. The supplied hole is 9/16 of
> an inch.
>
> Tom in Ohio
>
> "One wire at a Time"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Ok Bob, you got my dander up now. You sound like you must work for A&E with this
kind of BS. A properly installed wingtip antenna works just fine. That RV pilot
was not killed because of poor communications, it was because of poor judgment.
He should have made sure it was working BEFORE attempting formation flight. And
if the radio didn't work then there was something VERY wrong with his
installation or his radio - it was NOT just because he used a wingtip antenna.
"Spun in and burned" because of a wingtip antenna? give me a break Go back to
your television show and try to come up with something a little more
intelligent.
rant off
Dave
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> It seems that the old adage " Each Generation has to make the mistakes all
> over again " is alive and well .
> The mistakes made in the '80 's are being repeated .
> A comm antenna in a RV wingtip will be shaded in one direction !! One young
> RV'er was killed - probably because he failed to hear a transmissing in his
> group . The group turned toward him and he took abrupt evasive action - spun
> in and burned !!!
> Communication is so VITAL that compromises should NOT be made for less
> drag,etc.
> Hoping this helps someone stay alive ,
> Bob Olds < oldsfolks(at)aol.com > RV-4 , N1191X
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Dave Bristol wrote:
>
>
> Ok Bob, you got my dander up now. You sound like you must work for A&E with this
> kind of BS. A properly installed wingtip antenna works just fine. That RV pilot
> was not killed because of poor communications, it was because of poor judgment.
> He should have made sure it was working BEFORE attempting formation flight. And
> if the radio didn't work then there was something VERY wrong with his
> installation or his radio - it was NOT just because he used a wingtip antenna.
> "Spun in and burned" because of a wingtip antenna? give me a break Go back to
> your television show and try to come up with something a little more
> intelligent.
>
> rant off
>
> Dave
And (with rant still off) how can this story make any any
sense at all? If it was a formation flight, how was he that
surprised by his wingmen who he was supposed to be watching?
How could he be flying slow enough while in formation to
stall & spin after being surprised by the planes he was
supposed to be watching? How could a functioning radio, even
with the Proverbial Wet Noodle for an antenna, not pick up a
transmission from an a/c close enough to spook him into
stalling & spinning?
Charlie
>
> Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > It seems that the old adage " Each Generation has to make the mistakes all
> > over again " is alive and well .
> > The mistakes made in the '80 's are being repeated .
> > A comm antenna in a RV wingtip will be shaded in one direction !! One young
> > RV'er was killed - probably because he failed to hear a transmissing in his
> > group . The group turned toward him and he took abrupt evasive action - spun
> > in and burned !!!
> > Communication is so VITAL that compromises should NOT be made for less
> > drag,etc.
> > Hoping this helps someone stay alive ,
> > Bob Olds < oldsfolks(at)aol.com > RV-4 , N1191X
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Hi Jerry,
Yep, I'm talking about Arlyn , in a black RV-3 .
He was a close friend of Van's and Bob Larsell .
I got to know the whole bunch after we finished our first RV-4 : nimber 8
kit-built . We made the Western fly-ins . We lived in Mt. Shasta , Calif
until 1993.
Thanks for helping to update the builders in this century.
I only subscribet so I could post this message ; now I'll un-subscribe to
stop the flood of email .
Happy flying,
Bob Olds
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Dave;
If you can stop your rant long enough ; try asking Bob Larsell or Van . The
RV-3 pilot was a close friend of theirs . His radio was working fine until he
wound up on the wrong side .
Maybe Jim Weir would comment on antenna shading ?
I stick by my letter ,
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comm antenna in wingtip |
I stick by my post on the RV-3 crash and burn , probably because of antenna
shading . An antenna in a wingtip with a metal rib alongside will be
directional , among other undesirables.
Maybe Jim Weir could shed lend some proffessional knowledge here ; instead of
some of the rant and rave .
BTW , the radio had worked OK prior to the incident.
Bob Olds , RV-4 , N1191X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Spinner Plating - Do it if you want to. |
First off the problem is NITROGEN Embrittlement. Now, I know I know the
term, but I'm not sure what it means. I know that Nitriding of steel parts
involves baking them in an oven in the presence of ammonia. Whatever, that
is not really important.
What is important is research done by Aviation Safety Magazine last year
precisely on the topic of chromed spinners. Essentially they found a lot of
people spouting unsubstantiated theory. They did a fair amount of research
and did not find any statistical corelation between chroming and spinner
cracking.
For every person who could remember a friend who heard about a buddy, who's
uncle once got lessons from a flight instructor who worked at an airport
with a mechanic who had a customer who had a problem with a chromed spinner,
there are 10 guys who have been sneaking them past the FAA for 30 years with
no ill effects.
If you want to do it, then do it. I personally prefer a polished look. For
those who still wouldn't do it, maybe electroless nickel would be good for
you. I know you need to jump through some hoops to get it to stick to
aluminum, but it can be done. Nickel is neither as hard as chrome nor as
inert, but it is much tougher and far more inert than bare polished
aluminum.
Finally, I've been playing with cars and motorcycles since I was a kid. My
dad restored several old Chevys, including lots of new chrome. I've never,
never seen chrome nicer than the stuff that comes from the custom Harley
guys sources. Jesus, it looks liquid. Any idiot can lay a layer of chrome
down on a piece of metal. What makes for an excellent job is polishing and
cleaning. If you chrome a normal rough piece of metal, it isn't shiny. The
first step in chroming is to polsih the metal until it shines like it is
chrome. If you don't make the bare steel shine, it won't shine with chrome.
How fine a rouge the shop is willing to go down to is what determines how
shiny your part ends up. Finally, the part must be cleaned of all oils,
grease etc.
If these two things are done with love and pride (think Harleys again)the
chrome will be perfect.
Don Mei
RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole |
Thanks Paul! I thought about the same area where the spars meet. It sure
doesn't seem as if a rectangular slot will effect strength any. This part of
the spar is basically a hollow sandwich with .032 aluminum skin.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
> What worked for me is a rectangular slot in both wings. Meaning when you
> put the wings on, a rectangular slot would be split down the middle where
> the wings meet. Then put a corresponding slot on the main carry through
> F604. This way you have all of your wires running through, but you can
> still take off your wings if necessary, without cutting any wires. To
> answer your question, yes you can enlarge that hole. The spar web there
can
> be cut to your needs (within reason) for wires.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
>
> >
> > List, I remember From somewhere in the back of my Cluttered Builders
> > Brain that the wiring access hole Vans provides in the RV6-A-QB spar can
> > be enlarged? How Much?
> > Can you drill another access hole above the spar in the
> > fuselage support that the spar bolts to? I have more wires than ready
> > access forward of the spar seems to permit. The supplied hole is 9/16 of
> > an inch.
> >
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
> > "One wire at a Time"
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole |
That's correct. I got the blessing from Van's when I did it. Worked great.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
> Thanks Paul! I thought about the same area where the spars meet. It
sure
> doesn't seem as if a rectangular slot will effect strength any. This part
of
> the spar is basically a hollow sandwich with .032 aluminum skin.
>
> Tom in Ohio
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
>
> >
> > What worked for me is a rectangular slot in both wings. Meaning when
you
> > put the wings on, a rectangular slot would be split down the middle
where
> > the wings meet. Then put a corresponding slot on the main carry through
> > F604. This way you have all of your wires running through, but you can
> > still take off your wings if necessary, without cutting any wires. To
> > answer your question, yes you can enlarge that hole. The spar web there
> can
> > be cut to your needs (within reason) for wires.
> >
> > Paul Besing
> > RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> > Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> > http://www.kitlog.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > List, I remember From somewhere in the back of my Cluttered Builders
> > > Brain that the wiring access hole Vans provides in the RV6-A-QB spar
can
> > > be enlarged? How Much?
> > > Can you drill another access hole above the spar in the
> > > fuselage support that the spar bolts to? I have more wires than ready
> > > access forward of the spar seems to permit. The supplied hole is 9/16
of
> > > an inch.
> > >
> > > Tom in Ohio
> > >
> > > "One wire at a Time"
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | FOR SALE! TAIL/ WINGS-6 (Pre-Punched)/TOOLS |
Wings: Completed Phlogisted Main Spars
Left wing:
Gretz heat chrome pitot with chromed bracket and hardware,
still in the box
Tank 99% completed with sending unit and fuel gauge (Vans)
Left wing drilled to spars/ribs (ready to rivet). Skins match
pefectly!
Flap completed
Aileron completed
Ribs drilled for 3/8 PCV wire conduit
Wire Conduit provided
Right wing:
Rear spar completed
Flap completed
Aileron completed
All ribs prepared and reinforcement angles cut and clecoed
to ribs
All stations measured for rib placement
All ready to jig and drill
Wood jig fixtures included
Tail Section:
90% completed
I have all the necessary fiberglass wing tips, still in storage along
with right wing skins-still have coated with plastic-never touched.
I have a ton of stuff, to much to mention it all i.e., Super Fil
(never opened), Varaprime, ProSeal, a ton of aluminum scrap pieces, plenty of
manuals (FAA), books, RVator, a complete set of plans from Van, and some long
pieces of aluminum angle that is used with the fuselage (sent in wing kit).
The workmanship is very good to excellent cosmeticly and interior
(stress) completed perfectly. For those who are for real about purchase,
digital pictures can be E-mailed upon request. Remember, I am still
recovering from the crash, so no games please!
THE ENTIRE TAIL/WING PACKAGE $3500-You pay shipping. Located in
Arkansas-Little Rock area. Over $6800 invested, and a lot of work complete.
Heck, for that price, get plane ticket and come see it! :)
Also, I have every tool imaginable, you name it, I bet I got it. I would like
to sell complete set, including pneumatic squeezer. Those interested contact
me off list of course. Will sell at a bargain. If I have no takers, I will
sell per tool later on. Pass the word along. If no takers for the above I
will post again a time or two and then in Trade a Plane this fall.
Aircraft insurance men-PLEASE CONTACT ME. I NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE.
BTW, I appreciate all the get well notes, thoughts, and prayers.
Bob Paulovich, Bryant, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bill mosley" <mosley(at)sedona.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: smoke |
Pearman,
I simply replaced all of the rivets on part number F-671 with small flat
head countersunk screws and nut plates. A friend had put in access
ports, so I went one step further. I can now access the back side of my
radios and vacuum system.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole |
A small word of caution on running wire though the spar centre section.
Immediately aft of the F-604 bulkhead will be eventually lie the elevator
horn of the control stick assembly which moves fore and aft; in the stick
aft for full "up" elevator the horn comes quite close to the F-604. In other
words, there is not a lot of space to run a thick bundle of wires through
this space without possibly interfering with the elevator pushrod travel or
possibly introducing rubbing of the stick assembly on the wiring bundle. The
L-R stick aileron inter-connect rod passes laterally through this area as
well. (With 1/4" steel plates just above and below, it is hard to imagine
spar strength being a bigger issue than control system interference.)
Sure, it is possible to do a wiring run through this area but it needs some
attention and forethought about control system clearance. Keep whatever
hole(s) you make as far outboard as you can and low down as practical. Some
sort of cable clamp arrangement to keep the wire bundle well clear of the
elevator pushrod is probably a good idea as well. The bundle should be run
low and pass through the seat rib close to the bottom skin to keep it clear
of the aileron control linkages.
For slow-builders approaching the fuselage stage, be advised that a variety
of wiring holes drilled in seat ribs before assembly will make life much
easier later on. As that old saying goes, "guess how I know"....
Jim Oke
RV-6A
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
> What worked for me is a rectangular slot in both wings. Meaning when you
> put the wings on, a rectangular slot would be split down the middle where
> the wings meet. Then put a corresponding slot on the main carry through
> F604. This way you have all of your wires running through, but you can
> still take off your wings if necessary, without cutting any wires. To
> answer your question, yes you can enlarge that hole. The spar web there
can
> be cut to your needs (within reason) for wires.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: RV6-A-QB Spar Wiring Hole
>
>
> >
> > List, I remember From somewhere in the back of my Cluttered Builders
> > Brain that the wiring access hole Vans provides in the RV6-A-QB spar can
> > be enlarged? How Much?
> > Can you drill another access hole above the spar in the
> > fuselage support that the spar bolts to? I have more wires than ready
> > access forward of the spar seems to permit. The supplied hole is 9/16 of
> > an inch.
> >
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
> > "One wire at a Time"
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
John 3:16
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: smoke and rivets |
Bill, I hope you did an analysis of the change to screws from rivets for the
attachment of the foredeck. If you only worked on your quote from Chris
Heinz your foredeck could be seriously under strength. Working on the
theory that "one stainless screw equals four rivets" , then one Dash four
bolt probably equals 50 rivets so four bolts is probably enough for the
whole deck!!!
Unfortunately it does not work that way with thin sheet as on the foredeck
and I would discourage anyone from doing it without proper analysis. I have
seen what can happen to the foredeck in an accident (I pulled the crew out)
and you certainly do not want it any weaker.
With thin sheet lots of small rivets can be far stronger than a lesser
number of screws even if the total strength of the screws themselves is more
than the total for the rivets.
Regards, Brian
> --> RV6-List message posted by: "bill mosley"
>
> Doyal,
>
> I installed nut plates and screws on that front forward skin and I was
> glad I did. According to Chris Heinz (Zenair University) one stainless
> screw equals four rivets. I don't know much about smoke but hope I never
> see any of that stuff trailing me.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com> |
Scott,
I seem to be having a similar problem. I'm not sure what you mean by "the
front spar should be drilled out...". Do you mean the spar carry through
where it is riveted to the center section bulkheads? Unfourtunately I don't
have Mitch close by to fix mine.
Neil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott" <scott(at)hecenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Class Acts
>
> I recently received my RV7A Quickbuild kit from Vans. In the process of
> fitting things(like the landing gear weldment) I noticed that the
> alignment of the front and rear carry-thru spar did not line up as well
> as they should. I made up some hardware store bolts with the threads
> ground off and they would go in but they took quite a bit of force. The
> close tolerance bolts would not go in at all. I spoke with Ken Krueger
> at Vans and after a few discussions it was decided that the front spar
> should be drilled out, the wings installed and bolted to bring
> everything into alignment...then re-rivet. Being a newbie I was a little
> intimidated.
>
> Mitch Lock to the rescue!!! Mitch is on his third RV, and I barrage him
> regularly with questions. He offered to help Ken out and come drill out
> the spar and re-rivet. This past Sunday he did just that, and my baby is
> good as new. Mitch called Ken at Vans to advise him of the status of
> things and Ken asked Mitch how much Vans owed him...Mitch declined any
> remuneration!
>
> I just want to thank Ken at Vans for taking care of this problem and
> Mitch for volunteering to help.
>
> Just one more great example of Van's support and the support of the RV
> builders...
>
> Thanks Again Guys,
> Scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
> Yep, I'm talking about Arlyn , in a black RV-3 .
> He was a close friend of Van's and Bob Larsell .
> I got to know the whole bunch after we finished our first RV-4 : nimber 8
> kit-built . We made the Western fly-ins . We lived in Mt. Shasta , Calif
> until 1993.
> Thanks for helping to update the builders in this century.
> I only subscribet so I could post this message ; now I'll un-subscribe to
> stop the flood of email .
> Happy flying,
>
> Bob Olds
So....if "antenna shading" (not sure if this is a correct engineering
term or not) is a problem with wingtip com antennas, I guess it should
apply to VOR wingtip antennae as well, shouldn't it?
The problem with this premise is that my Sportcraft VOR wingtip antenna
works like a charm regardless of where the station is located in respect
to the aircraft. Yep, it doesn't seem logical, but I have received VOR
signals that were a hundred miles away on the opposite side of the plane
from the antenna.
Bob, while I regret you witnessed the demise of your friend, I don't buy
your story about a com antenna being so "shaded" that it can't receive a
signal from a plane in the same formation. I was able to receive ATIS on
my plane while working on it at the airport..........with only the coax
connected!
By the way, subscribing so you can make one post and then cutting and
running is really cheesy and doesn't show much class. If you are going
to make dubious posts to the list, you need to stick around and take
your lumps. Your demeaning reference to "builders in this century" was
particularly unfortunate and really damaged any credibility you might
have previously possessed.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, built last century, and being constantly updated in
this century)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Sam I highly respect you and all that you have done but in all due
> respect VOR signals work different than COM signals. Also remember
> that this was in the early 80s and there was not a lot of testing
> going on with wingtip mounted antennas. Having tried the wingtip
> antenna thing in my RV-6 I can tell you with out a doubt that there
> is shading on the opposite side of the antenna. ALSO IT IS WORSE
> AT CLOSE RANGE. I have done many hours of formation flying and there
> are shaded spots. While we can't say for sure that is what happened
> in Arlyns case it is one possibility.
>
> Jerry
Jerry, I appreciate your reasoned reply, especially the portion that
stated "we can't say for sure that is what happened in Arlyns case it is
one possibility".
The original post implied that the wingtip antenna almost certainly was
the sole reason for the accident. It was that statement that I found to
be dubious on several levels, along with the implication that the newer
builders are unable to make wise decisions in equipping their plane.
Perhaps the intent of the original post was admirable, but the execution
probably did not score any points for Mr. Olds among this century's
builders.
I realize that wingtip COM antennae are a different animal from VOR
antennae, and intend to try one as soon as I "get a round tuit". Bob
Archer clearly states that his wingtip com antenna is not as efficient
as a whip antenna, but several builders have used it with an acceptable
degree of success, and hopefully with an acceptable level of safety. By
the way, I tried a gear leg com antenna and found there were definite
nodes in the pattern even though close range seemed to work fine.
I think all of us recognize the need for a high priority on safety,
especially now that GA is under the magnifying glass. Let me put in a
plug at this point for all of us to REALLY sharpen our airmanship if
flying into OSH. Each year seems to point out that some pilots are not
as proficient as they need to be and while the hope is that there are no
accidents, we certainly don't want to lose any RVs.
Best regards,
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna in the Wingtip |
I have a Bob Archer sportcraft antenna in my left wingtip on my RV-8 and
have talked with not only my formation on all sides of me, but also
aircraft and ATC facilities 50 miles off my right wing. I did make sure
the blade of the antenna was vertically polarized.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, 78TX (Flying)
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna in Wingtip
It seems that the old adage " Each Generation has to make the mistakes
all
over again " is alive and well .
The mistakes made in the '80 's are being repeated .
A comm antenna in a RV wingtip will be shaded in one direction !! One
young
RV'er was killed - probably because he failed to hear a transmissing in
his
group . The group turned toward him and he took abrupt evasive action -
spun
in and burned !!!
Communication is so VITAL that compromises should NOT be made for less
drag,etc.
Hoping this helps someone stay alive ,
Bob Olds < oldsfolks(at)aol.com > RV-4 , N1191X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner Plating - Do it if you want to. |
Sorry but the problem of cracking with acidic plating is HYDROGEN
embrittlement. Check with AC 43-13.1B for further info.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Spinner Plating - Do it if you want to.
First off the problem is NITROGEN Embrittlement. Now, I know I know the
term, but I'm not sure what it means. I know that Nitriding of steel parts
involves baking them in an oven in the presence of ammonia. Whatever, that
is not really important.
What is important is research done by Aviation Safety Magazine last year
precisely on the topic of chromed spinners. Essentially they found a lot of
people spouting unsubstantiated theory. They did a fair amount of research
and did not find any statistical corelation between chroming and spinner
cracking.
For every person who could remember a friend who heard about a buddy, who's
uncle once got lessons from a flight instructor who worked at an airport
with a mechanic who had a customer who had a problem with a chromed spinner,
there are 10 guys who have been sneaking them past the FAA for 30 years with
no ill effects.
If you want to do it, then do it. I personally prefer a polished look. For
those who still wouldn't do it, maybe electroless nickel would be good for
you. I know you need to jump through some hoops to get it to stick to
aluminum, but it can be done. Nickel is neither as hard as chrome nor as
inert, but it is much tougher and far more inert than bare polished
aluminum.
Finally, I've been playing with cars and motorcycles since I was a kid. My
dad restored several old Chevys, including lots of new chrome. I've never,
never seen chrome nicer than the stuff that comes from the custom Harley
guys sources. Jesus, it looks liquid. Any idiot can lay a layer of chrome
down on a piece of metal. What makes for an excellent job is polishing and
cleaning. If you chrome a normal rough piece of metal, it isn't shiny. The
first step in chroming is to polsih the metal until it shines like it is
chrome. If you don't make the bare steel shine, it won't shine with chrome.
How fine a rouge the shop is willing to go down to is what determines how
shiny your part ends up. Finally, the part must be cleaned of all oils,
grease etc.
If these two things are done with love and pride (think Harleys again)the
chrome will be perfect.
Don Mei
RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna in the Wingtip |
Stu,
For us "frequencially challenged" individuals, would you pontificate
further about making "...sure the blade of the antenna was vertically
polarized.". Some of us out here are still toying with the idea of
utilizing tip-Comm antennas. Thanks,
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip
>
> I have a Bob Archer sportcraft antenna in my left wingtip on my RV-8 and
> have talked with not only my formation on all sides of me, but also
> aircraft and ATC facilities 50 miles off my right wing. I did make sure
> the blade of the antenna was vertically polarized.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-8, 78TX (Flying)
>
> From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna in Wingtip
>
>
> It seems that the old adage " Each Generation has to make the mistakes
> all
> over again " is alive and well .
> The mistakes made in the '80 's are being repeated .
> A comm antenna in a RV wingtip will be shaded in one direction !! One
> young
> RV'er was killed - probably because he failed to hear a transmissing in
> his
> group . The group turned toward him and he took abrupt evasive action -
> spun
> in and burned !!!
> Communication is so VITAL that compromises should NOT be made for less
> drag,etc.
> Hoping this helps someone stay alive ,
> Bob Olds < oldsfolks(at)aol.com > RV-4 , N1191X
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
HI LISTERS
all this talk about putting wing tip antennas to improve airspeed, well i
just have to mention a few things. 1st i installed all my ants hidden, and
now my problem is my rv is way too fast. yesterday i was doing touch and goes
and had to do a few s turns on final to allow myself time to take off in
front of me. i did have one problem with the marker beacon ant in the
coweling as it burnt to a crispy crunch, due to the excessive heat. so i'll
move it to the belly of the plane. maybe that will slow me down enough to get
myself out of my way :-)
man do these planes fly fast
scott
tampa
0360 c/s rv6a
FINALLY FLYING
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
is that the so called black hole effect? you see
yourself coming out of the hole as your going in?
Glenn
do not archive
--- ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> HI LISTERS
> all this talk about putting wing tip antennas to
> improve airspeed, well i
> just have to mention a few things. 1st i installed
> all my ants hidden, and
> now my problem is my rv is way too fast. yesterday i
> was doing touch and goes
> and had to do a few s turns on final to allow myself
> time to take off in
> front of me. i did have one problem with the marker
> beacon ant in the
> coweling as it burnt to a crispy crunch, due to the
> excessive heat. so i'll
> move it to the belly of the plane. maybe that will
> slow me down enough to get
> myself out of my way :-)
>
> man do these planes fly fast
> scott
> tampa
> 0360 c/s rv6a
> FINALLY FLYING
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Jerry |
--- ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> HI LISTERS
> all this talk about putting wing tip antennas to
> improve airspeed, well i
> just have to mention a few things. 1st i installed
> all my ants hidden, and
> now my problem is my rv is way too fast. yesterday i
> was doing touch and goes
> and had to do a few s turns on final to allow myself
> time to take off in
> front of me. i did have one problem with the marker
> beacon ant in the
> coweling as it burnt to a crispy crunch, due to the
> excessive heat. so i'll
> move it to the belly of the plane. maybe that will
> slow me down enough to get
> myself out of my way :-)
>
> man do these planes fly fast
> scott
> tampa
> 0360 c/s rv6a
> FINALLY FLYING
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
01:34:35 PM
Can you put an antenna in both wing tips with a splitter? Using both at the
same time? Probably a dumb question but If I cant drill it, hit it, or
paint it, I don't get it. Don't know from no electrons.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Maybe this idea has been put forth before. I don't recall it though.
I was at Walmart last night and found a 12' rope light for $8. It's the
stuff that can be used for decorative lighting around fireplaces, etc.
Sorta like Christmas lights except that the lights are protected inside
plastic tubing.
So what? Well, this is just the ticket for extra light inside a wing panel
during riveting since it's not too bright and doesn't get hot. I plan to
use my rope light in about a month when I close the rear fuselage of the
Rocket. I'll have a cool, flexible light that won't break, blind, or burn
me while I'm squirming around inside!
Our Walmart was also clearing out mini die grinders, cordless drills, and
Black and Decker's version of a Dremel tool. The B&D unit is FAR, FAR
superior to the Dremel, BTW.
Vince Frazier
1946 Stinson, NC97535, flying
F-1H Rocket, "Six Shooter", N540VF reserved,
canopy installation stage
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
In a message dated 07/10/2002 7:26:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sbuc(at)hiwaay.net writes:
> So....if "antenna shading" (not sure if this is a correct engineering
> term or not) is a problem with wingtip com antennas, I guess it should
> apply to VOR wingtip antennae as well, shouldn't it?
>
> The problem with this premise is that my Sportcraft VOR wingtip antenna
> works like a charm regardless of where the station is located in respect
> to the aircraft. Yep, it doesn't seem logical, but I have received VOR
> signals that were a hundred miles away on the opposite side of the plane
> from the antenna.
>
As a point of historical interest, the 1980 wingtip antenna would have been a
dipole antenna mounted in the wingtip. What Bob Olds said about the
technical aspects of the wingtip dipole antenna are correct. I have verified
from someone elses experiences that transmissions from the opposite side of
the aircraft (even close, strong signals) are blocked by the airframe.
Please do not confuse a dipole antenna design with a ground plane antenna
design. They are different animals.
Sportcraft wingtip antenna's are ground plane design antenna's, not dipole
design antenna's.
As a point of reference, the Sportcraft wingtip NAV antenna will work better
than a dipole NAV antenna. No compromise there. (The dipole NAV antenna
gets more shading and reflections (Nodes and Peaks in the signal) due to
interference from the aircraft structure than the wingtip ground plane design
antenna. But a dipole NAV antenna normally "works" well.)
On the other hand, the Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna is reported to be about
as good as the belly mounted bent whip dipole antenna, which some people use.
For the ground plane wingtip COM antenna, there should be a very tight node
across the fuselage, and another at a 45 degree angle outward and back on the
mounted side of the aircraft.
(The bent whip dipole antenna may be 22" long, but does NOT have 22" of
vertical height. And they are frequently mounted within 2' of the main gear.
(Node towards each gear leg and peak in the opposite direction.))
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV Sportcraft Vertical Stabilizer COM antenna and Sportcraft wingtip
COM antenna
BTW, a vertical stabilizer COM antenna is an optimum location.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Comm antenna in wing tip |
When installing the antenna's on my RV6 I relied heavily on the advice
from a leading avionics facility that have been in business for many
years and do major installations on private and corporate aircraft.
My priority was to get maximum performance and reliability out of my
avionics package as a lot of my flying was going to be into sparsely
settled areas and where comm facilities are sometimes over a hundred
miles apart. The comm antenna was mounted on top of the fuselage about
half way between the back of the baggage area and the vertical fin and
another one was mounted on the belly just ahead of the rear spar, this
one for comm 2 as a back-up. The top mounted antenna was giving RF
interference to the mikes, switching comm 1 to the bottom antenna
cleared this problem.
Testing showed that at higher altitudes communications at distances of
100 miles and over was routine. Mounting in the wing tips was not a
consideration in this case as the best performance here is a vertically
mounted antenna. I believe the reason for this is that our comm
facilities here in Canada broadcast only with vertical antennas whereas
I believe in the US they broadcast with both vertical and horizontal
antennas. This is done due in some cases of the nav antennas being
shared with the comm.
In any event the advice I got from the professionals is to try to mount
the comm antenna as clear of any interference with the airframe as
possible. This really was pronounced when my comm one was switched to
the belly where the only interference would be the main gear.
I have all my antennas mounted externally, comm 1 and 2, ELT, nav, gps
and transponder and it seems that the old girl gets along about the same
as the rest indicating between 170 and 180 depending on conditions with
the 0360 and cs prop at 21-22 inches and 2450.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
I am considering ordering a new O-360 from Aero Sport Power
and they supply a Nippindenso alternator with internal regulator. Have
any of y'all used this alternator and can you set up over voltage
protection with it. Does anybody know the model number of the
alternator?
I have seen good things on the list about the rebuilt engines from this
company but does anybody have experience with the new engines? I think
they are built up from parts like the XP-360?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
Get Bob Knuckolls book at http://www.aeroelectric.com In there he shows how
to add overvoltage to an internally regulated alternator.
Bart's engines are nothing short of perfect, so I assume his new engines are
the same way.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: RV-List: ENGINE RV6
>
>
> I am considering ordering a new O-360 from Aero Sport Power
> and they supply a Nippindenso alternator with internal regulator. Have
> any of y'all used this alternator and can you set up over voltage
> protection with it. Does anybody know the model number of the
> alternator?
> I have seen good things on the list about the rebuilt engines from this
> company but does anybody have experience with the new engines? I think
> they are built up from parts like the XP-360?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re:Fuel deals for Oshkosh? |
This isn't a great deal on price but my home airport KSUX will have 100LL for
around $2.10 and free lunches. Might be a bit out of your way.
John Link
RV-8 going to OSH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> As a point of historical interest, the 1980 wingtip antenna would have been a
> dipole antenna mounted in the wingtip. What Bob Olds said about the
> technical aspects of the wingtip dipole antenna are correct. I have verified
> from someone elses experiences that transmissions from the opposite side of
> the aircraft (even close, strong signals) are blocked by the airframe.
>
> Please do not confuse a dipole antenna design with a ground plane antenna
> design. They are different animals.
>
> Sportcraft wingtip antenna's are ground plane design antenna's, not dipole
> design antenna's.
>
> As a point of reference, the Sportcraft wingtip NAV antenna will work better
> than a dipole NAV antenna. No compromise there. (The dipole NAV antenna
> gets more shading and reflections (Nodes and Peaks in the signal) due to
> interference from the aircraft structure than the wingtip ground plane design
> antenna. But a dipole NAV antenna normally "works" well.)
>
> On the other hand, the Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna is reported to be about
> as good as the belly mounted bent whip dipole antenna, which some people use.
> For the ground plane wingtip COM antenna, there should be a very tight node
> across the fuselage, and another at a 45 degree angle outward and back on the
> mounted side of the aircraft.
> (The bent whip dipole antenna may be 22" long, but does NOT have 22" of
> vertical height. And they are frequently mounted within 2' of the main gear.
> (Node towards each gear leg and peak in the opposite direction.))
>
> Jim Ayers
> RV-3 N47RV Sportcraft Vertical Stabilizer COM antenna and Sportcraft wingtip
> COM antenna
>
> BTW, a vertical stabilizer COM antenna is an optimum location.
------------------
Jim, thank you for the clarification; it seems we can learn a few things
from this discussion.
1) The dipole wingtip com antennae doesn't work very well, but the
ground plane type works quite well.
2) Just as in other aspects of life, generational differences can cause
conflicting points of view, even friction, when various aeronautical
issues are discussed without clarifying the historical context. It also
seems one generation sometimes (unfortunately) displays impatience with
another generation.
3) Those of us who are already flying our RVs must stay current with new
technology to avoid embarrassing ourselves when we make blanket
statements about how you can't build an RV without jigs or why a certain
type of antenna just won't work, etc, etc.....
4) The "new generation" is a very bright, energetic group of builders
who have technology at their disposal that the builders of just ten
years ago never imagined!
And.......that is why this Experimental Aviation Thing is so cool! The
veteran builders can provide a lot of good advice (when it is offered in
a gracious, informed, and up-to-date manner), and the new builders can
inspire us with their enthusiasm and grasp of bold new technology.
I offer my apology to any whom I may have offended with my previous
posts on this subject.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
> When installing the antenna's on my RV6 I relied heavily on the
advice
> from a leading avionics facility that have been in business for many
> years and do major installations on private and corporate aircraft.
Leading avionics facilities would not know much about the ground plane
hidden antenna that Bob Archer sells. They are only dealing with
certified
stuff if they work on private and corporate aircraft. The only way any
of
their people are knowledgable about the new technology of hidden wingtip
ground plane antennas is if you happen to talk to a technition that is
not
only building a kitplane but also taking the time to investigate the
huge
world of products only available to home builders.
Bob Archer has several decades of experience designing antennas and
their
installations on a variety of aircraft. His antennas are not certified
because he cannot afford the certification process. He is however likely
to
be more knowledgable that anyone you can talk to at an avionics
facility.
Give him a call if you would like to learn about this technology.
310-316-8796 or email him at bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net His antennas
are
not a little copper strips, they are a specific design compelation of
aluminum strips that have specific mounting instuctions and they work.
> My priority was to get maximum performance and reliability out of my
> avionics package
It is possible that this goal is acheivable with an antenna that has no
drag
and will never ice up. This is one of the feilds where homebuilders have
the
advantage over the factory folks. We can often do things better.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
PS. Could some more people flying with a Bob Archer wingtip com antenna
please post a performance report? Thanks....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
I was told recently that Bart no longer sells brand new Lycoming engines
to the homebuilt market, but instead builds up the XP360 kits from
Superior and sells them instead. I haven't confirmed this with anyone
yet, it's just a point of interest.
Personally, I think the XP360 is a better solution than a Lycoming-made
O-360, but only time will tell if the Superior engines are as
durable/reliable/etc.
-RB4
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>Get Bob Knuckolls book at http://www.aeroelectric.com In there he shows how
>to add overvoltage to an internally regulated alternator.
>
>Bart's engines are nothing short of perfect, so I assume his new engines are
>the same way.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
>Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
>http://www.kitlog.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
>To: "RV-List"
>Subject: RV-List: ENGINE RV6
>
>
>>
>>
>> I am considering ordering a new O-360 from Aero Sport Power
>>and they supply a Nippindenso alternator with internal regulator. Have
>>any of y'all used this alternator and can you set up over voltage
>>protection with it. Does anybody know the model number of the
>>alternator?
>>I have seen good things on the list about the rebuilt engines from this
>>company but does anybody have experience with the new engines? I think
>>they are built up from parts like the XP-360?
>>
>>
>
>
--
---------
Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
-----------------------------
Stop dreaming... Start flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Team Rocket Gear Leg & Intersection Fairings |
I have a set of new (un-used) Team Rocket gear leg fairings for the main
gear of an 8A or 6A, including the intersection fairings that go between the
gear leg fairing and wheel pants and the gear leg fairing and fuselage skin.
If interested, contact me off line.
rickjory(at)msn.com
Rick Jory RV8A (N184RJ reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Eric, I don't think this is a dumb question, I asked Bob Archer about it
once myself, even though as an EE I should have known better. It is strictly
a no no. The two antennas set up an interference pattern with each other,
and cause lobes (dead spots) in the pattern around the airplane. So, use
only one antenna to one transmitter. If the two antennas are very close to
each other (like the VOR 'whisker' antennas on each side of a vertical stab,
it is OK, but not separated by a wingspan.
Bob also told me it is ok to orient the com antenna at 45 degrees inside the
wingtip, that that is close enough to vertical. I am using a high quality
radio (KX-165) to make up for the reduced efficiency of the buried antenna.
BTW, many thanks for the old timers who stick with us on this list, your
opinions are very valuable, even if not always correct...nobody is perfect.
Down with bomb throwing though.
John, RV8 flying pretty soon now, Pagosa Springs, CO
www.lazy8.net/rv8.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Comm Antenna in Wingtip
Can you put an antenna in both wing tips with a splitter? Using both at the
same time? Probably a dumb question but If I cant drill it, hit it, or
paint it, I don't get it. Don't know from no electrons.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel deals for Oshkosh? |
>
> Anyone know of any Oshkosh Specials for fuel stops? I'm specifically
looking
> for my route from Houston which puts my mid-point stop somewhere in
Missouri
snip
I was at Monett, MO (M58) two weeks ago. They had fuel for $1.65 and a very
nice terminal along with a older gentleman that had watched the Japanese
surrender delegation land before meeting with MacArthur. Therre were photos
on the wall showing him as a young mechanic looking at the Betty bombers
after they had landed.
Neosho(EOS),about 30 west, had fuel for $2.00.
Stan Blanton
Lubbock, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
I think the main lesson to be had is to know your equipment, and it's
limitations. FAR Part 91.205 specifies the equipment for daytime VFR
operations, a two way radio is not required. This means you can still be
legal to fly with no radio and no antenna assuming day VFR, in
non-controlled airspace. It may not be a good idea, but it is legal.
If your plane isn't equipped for IFR, don't fly into IFR. If your radio
doesn't work well for formation flying, don't fly in formation.
Phil Wiethe
Electrical Engineer, Ford Motor Co.
RV-8A Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna in the Wingtip |
In response to Chuck and Charlie about the Bob Archer antennae.
The VOR antenna should be horizontally polarized, meaning the reception
blade should be mounted horizontally. I mounted mine against the top
surface inside my right wingtip. I have received high power VOR
stations 100 miles out at 7-9000' with dead on accuracy compared to GPS
bearing. Also get accurate ILS.
The COMM antenna should be vertically polarized, meaning mounted with
the transmit/receive blade vertical. I mounted mine inside the left
wingtip on the up slanted lower surface and then bent the blade itself
up to the vertical and bonded it there with hard red form triangles in
three places. I have received other aircraft 120 miles away from all
directions from me, but communicated with aircraft 120 miles off my left
side, but about 50 miles away on my right side. I use it for my COMM 2
antenna to sample ATIS/AWOS along the way and primarily use it or my
formation on all sides of me. I use an external whip antenna under the
front seat for COMM 1 for most of my ATC long range communications.
By the way, the base of Bob Archer antenna needs to be grounded. I did
that by connecting them with aluminum strips to the wingtip platenut
reinforcement strip and using the attachment screws for ground with the
metal wing.
Also, by the way, I also have Whelen strobe power packs in both wingtips
mounted to the tip ribs. Using the Bob Archer instructions for wire
routing, I have no strobe noise in the radios.
Hope this helps, it works for me.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, 74TX, (Flying)
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip
Stu,
For us "frequencially challenged" individuals, would you pontificate
further about making "...sure the blade of the antenna was vertically
polarized.". Some of us out here are still toying with the idea of
utilizing tip-Comm antennas. Thanks,
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip
>
> I have a Bob Archer sportcraft antenna in my left wingtip on my RV-8 and
> have talked with not only my formation on all sides of me, but also
> aircraft and ATC facilities 50 miles off my right wing. I did make sure
> the blade of the antenna was vertically polarized.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-8, 78TX (Flying
-------------------------------
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip
Stu,
Can you mount Bob's antenna completely vertical or did you have to
install it at a slant? Do you
have any photos of your installation?
Charlie Kuss
Waiting for the rain to stop in soggy SE Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <N8RV(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh RV-8 Builders Meetings |
Having heard nothing to the contrary, here is the OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
(drum roll, please... )
An informal gathering of RV-8/8a builders, pilots and enthusiasts will
be held in the trees behind the Theater in the Woods at Oshkosh on
Thursday morning, July 25th at 9:00.
Additionally, another gathering will occur on Sunday morning, July 28th,
also at 9:00.
I realize that these times may not work for everyone, but it should be
convenient for those who can only stay for the first few days of the
Convention, as well as the die hards.
Just wander toward the trees behind the Theater and look for a group of
people telling stories -- usually fabrications. I'll have nametags and
Sharpies (no, not gifts -- just for writing your names on the tags!).
You're on your own for coffee and doughnuts, unless some benevolent soul
wishes to take on that responsibility.
Here's hoping to see LOTS of you under the trees! Each year we've had
anywhere from 10-20 builders and wannabes gather, and I know it's been
fun to finally put faces with the names of those whom we've come to know
and trust online over the years.
See you there!
-- Don McNamara
N8RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
> Can you put an antenna in both wing tips with a splitter? Using both at
the
> same time?
No, this is a COM radio no no. It will not work. Performance will be hacked
down in a huge way. I don't know if there is a splitter box that would allow
you to switch back and forth from two antennas though.
There is a splitter box available from Comat or Bob Archer Sportcraft
Anennas that will split one antenna to two COM radios. This is something
different. Both claim no performance loss.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
With all of the recent discussion about VSI's and several people indicating
that they had trouble with the units that Vans sells, is it worth ordering
from Vans? Obviously the units from Chief and others cost a bit more but
are they less prone to trouble than the imports that Van is selling? I
imagine that the same question would apply to altimeters and ASI's.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Eldridge" <feldridg(at)legis.state.ga.us> |
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:28 -0400
From: "Frank Eldridge" <feldridg(at)legis.state.ga.us>
Subject: RV FLYERS
I fly a RV6A cross country principally in the southeast, so I need help
avoiding thunderstorms.
Would any of you who have had experience with:
1. Anywhere Weather
2. Echo Flight Systems
3. Any other method of getting current graphic weather into the cockpit
of an RV in flight
Would you please share them with me. If you would post your answer or
email me or give me a phone number that you could be reached. Or call me
at (404)656-5040, I would deeply appreciate it.
My name is Frank Eldridge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
All of my flight instruments are from Vans and they work fine... If you buy
them from Chief for the same price as you would from Van, you will get the
same instrument. The cheaper ones are all made by either UMA or Flcon Gauge
- Wultrad Inc.
-Bill
http://vondane.com/rv8a
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: VSI
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:42:54 -0400
With all of the recent discussion about VSI's and several people indicating
that they had trouble with the units that Vans sells, is it worth ordering
from Vans? Obviously the units from Chief and others cost a bit more but
are they less prone to trouble than the imports that Van is selling? I
imagine that the same question would apply to altimeters and ASI's.
Vince
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
i didn't say my vsi came rom vans, it came from cheifs at sun n fun.
scott
tampa
rv6a flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
The following statement is not quite true. Two Mooney's that I maintain here
at Hayward have just had very expensive avionics upgrades including Nav and
Com antenna's hidden in the wingtips.
Cash Copeland A&P
RV6 Hayward,Ca
>
> Leading avionics facilities would not know much about the ground plane
> hidden antenna that Bob Archer sells. They are only dealing with
> certified
> stuff if they work on private and corporate aircraft. The only way any
> of
> their people are knowledgable about the new technology of hidden wingtip
> ground plane antennas is if you happen to talk to a technition that is
> not
> only building a kitplane but also taking the time to investigate the
> huge
> world of products only available to home builders.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV FLYERS |
you can buy the MX-20 and have the satelleite weather
superimposed onto the screen along with your flight
path and associated frequencies. THe cost is posted on
the world wide wing (doug reeves website) however Gulf
Coast avionics has them cheaper. If memory serves I
believe the MX-20 with weather is around 7500.00 US
Glenn Williams
--- Frank Eldridge wrote:
>
>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:28 -0400
> From: "Frank Eldridge" <feldridg(at)legis.state.ga.us>
> To:
> Subject: RV FLYERS
>
> I fly a RV6A cross country principally in the
> southeast, so I need help
> avoiding thunderstorms.
> Would any of you who have had experience with:
> 1. Anywhere Weather
> 2. Echo Flight Systems
> 3. Any other method of getting current graphic
> weather into the cockpit
> of an RV in flight
>
> Would you please share them with me. If you would
> post your answer or
> email me or give me a phone number that you could be
> reached. Or call me
> at (404)656-5040, I would deeply appreciate it.
> My name is Frank Eldridge.
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip |
Just in case somebody is considering Bob Archer's Sportcraft antenna and
hasn't seen my installation of the VOR antenna:
http://thervjournal.com/sportcraft.htm
I intend to try a COM antenna in the right wingtip one of these days.
Sam Buchanan
=========================
Stuart B McCurdy wrote:
>
>
> In response to Chuck and Charlie about the Bob Archer antennae.
>
> The VOR antenna should be horizontally polarized, meaning the reception
> blade should be mounted horizontally. I mounted mine against the top
> surface inside my right wingtip. I have received high power VOR
> stations 100 miles out at 7-9000' with dead on accuracy compared to GPS
> bearing. Also get accurate ILS.
>
> The COMM antenna should be vertically polarized, meaning mounted with
> the transmit/receive blade vertical. I mounted mine inside the left
> wingtip on the up slanted lower surface and then bent the blade itself
> up to the vertical and bonded it there with hard red form triangles in
> three places. I have received other aircraft 120 miles away from all
> directions from me, but communicated with aircraft 120 miles off my left
> side, but about 50 miles away on my right side. I use it for my COMM 2
> antenna to sample ATIS/AWOS along the way and primarily use it or my
> formation on all sides of me. I use an external whip antenna under the
> front seat for COMM 1 for most of my ATC long range communications.
>
> By the way, the base of Bob Archer antenna needs to be grounded. I did
> that by connecting them with aluminum strips to the wingtip platenut
> reinforcement strip and using the attachment screws for ground with the
> metal wing.
>
> Also, by the way, I also have Whelen strobe power packs in both wingtips
> mounted to the tip ribs. Using the Bob Archer instructions for wire
> routing, I have no strobe noise in the radios.
>
> Hope this helps, it works for me.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-8, 74TX, (Flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in the Wingtip |
Let me try that link again:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/sportcraft.htm
Sam Buchanan
===============================
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
> Just in case somebody is considering Bob Archer's Sportcraft antenna and
> hasn't seen my installation of the VOR antenna:
>
> http://thervjournal.com/sportcraft.htm
>
> I intend to try a COM antenna in the right wingtip one of these days.
>
> Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | spreadsheet to convert airspeeds |
Kevin,
Thanks for your help. The spreadsheet is exactly what I was looking for.
It allows much more accuracy than the E6-B.
some cases it may be useful to be able to input barometric pressure and
altitude rather than pressure altitude.
Note: The link below is incorrect. I went to your website and found the
correct one.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 32 hours.
Someone asked awhile back if there was a spreadsheet to convert
between IAS and TAS. It seemed that there wasn't one online, so I
finally sat down and cranked one out. It is an Excel spreadsheet,
zipped, found at:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
It was produced fairly quickly, so I'm looking for any comments on format,
etc.
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Eldridge" <feldridg(at)legis.state.ga.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV FLYERS |
Glenn,
Thank you so much for answering my request for information. I am planning on attending
Oshkosh, and one of my first stops will be to look at the MX-20. If
you have any other suggestion, please email me. For flying in the southeast without
current information has not been fun lately.
Sincerely,
Frank Eldridge, Jr.
RV6A N559LJ
>>> willig10(at)yahoo.com 07/11/02 02:44PM >>>
you can buy the MX-20 and have the satelleite weather
superimposed onto the screen along with your flight
path and associated frequencies. THe cost is posted on
the world wide wing (doug reeves website) however Gulf
Coast avionics has them cheaper. If memory serves I
believe the MX-20 with weather is around 7500.00 US
Glenn Williams
--- Frank Eldridge wrote:
>
>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:28 -0400
> From: "Frank Eldridge" <feldridg(at)legis.state.ga.us>
> To:
> Subject: RV FLYERS
>
> I fly a RV6A cross country principally in the
> southeast, so I need help
> avoiding thunderstorms.
> Would any of you who have had experience with:
> 1. Anywhere Weather
> 2. Echo Flight Systems
> 3. Any other method of getting current graphic
> weather into the cockpit
> of an RV in flight
>
> Would you please share them with me. If you would
> post your answer or
> email me or give me a phone number that you could be
> reached. Or call me
> at (404)656-5040, I would deeply appreciate it.
> My name is Frank Eldridge.
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
Cash, please excuse my lack of understanding and knowledge, but help me --
are you saying this means you upgraded by installing wingtip com antennas or
by replacing them?
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Comm Antenna in Wingtip
>
> The following statement is not quite true. Two Mooney's that I maintain
here
> at Hayward have just had very expensive avionics upgrades including Nav
and
> Com antenna's hidden in the wingtips.
> Cash Copeland A&P
> RV6 Hayward,Ca
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Having heard nothing to the contrary, here is the OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
(drum roll, please... )
An ad hoc gathering of RV7/7A builders, pilots and enthusiasts will
be held under the highest of trees behind the Theater in the Woods at
Oshkosh on Friday morning, July 26th at 8:00.
We realize that this time may not work for everyone, but what would??
Just wander toward the trees behind the Theater and look for a group of
people telling stories about who is building faster/longer/smarter/etc. We
won't have nametags and gifts -- (for those attendng from the farthest
away). After all, WE LIVE WITH PRIDE knowing we build the latest -- and
perhaps until proven otherwise -- the best!!
You're on your own for coffee and doughnuts, unless some rich soul that has
invested in the bond market lately wishes to take on that responsibility.
Here's hoping to see LOTS of you under the biggest or trees! We think
it'll be
fun to put faces with the names of those whom we've come to know
online over the last several months.
Hope to see you there!
Larry Robert Helming and Steve Eberhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Golias" <pago16(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Traffic & things |
Hi Jeff
I can see how that route would be better epically during peek hours. I
don't go to Orland too often anymore. In the other direction the
Lockport bridge has to be avoided between 3:30 and 5:00...or bring a
magazine with. Don't laugh because I have done this.
The Chipmunk count is up to 26 now. I don't see anymore in the front or
back yards but I still have them around the front and west side of the
house. I've had to give up shooting them and am now on a trap and
release program. I've caught the last six with the trap using peanuts
as bait. There's a wooded area about three miles south where I release
them...I'm sure they are very happy because there are many more Oak
trees available. Lets see, the trap cost $24.00 and I caught 6 so
that's $4.00 each which is not very cost effective. Now, a shot gun
shell costs $0.20 so 24 / .2 120 - 6 114 to go before the trap
is paid for.
I think I have too much time on my hands...
I would like to visit the Planes of Fame Museum this time out. If your
interested we could go together, and if not I'll plan on stopping there
either arriving or leaving the area.
Dad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna in Wingtip |
The point I was trying to make is that the antenna in the wingtip concept is
available for certified aircraft. The Mooney experts at Lake Aero in
Lakeport, Ca did the avionics upgrades and antenna installations for the
Nav/Com in the wingtip. The external antennas were removed.
Cash Copeland
>
> Cash, please excuse my lack of understanding and knowledge, but help me --
> are you saying this means you upgraded by installing wingtip com antennas
> or
> by replacing them?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JusCash(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Comm Antenna in Wingtip
>
>
> >
> > The following statement is not quite true. Two Mooney's that I maintain
> here
> > at Hayward have just had very expensive avionics upgrades including Nav
> and
> > Com antenna's hidden in the wingtips.
> > Cash Copeland A&P
> > RV6 Hayward,Ca
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Doble" <mark_doble(at)hp.com> |
Hi List,
RE: Carb air box depth.
i am attempting to fit a will james cowling...with an O-360-A1A with marvel
ma-4-5 carb. Does an airbox with a 1 5/8" depth seem like it is not deep
enough for air to enter the carb properly?
Will James is trying to convince me that this will work...but i am really
skeptical to try this out...he wants to trim the lower part of the cowling
and avoid using the vans airbox as he thinks it is too big.
From my limited research it appears that 1 5/8" is too shallow and the air
is going to have a hard time changing direction and going up into the carb?
whaddya guys think?
thanks,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | New England Fly-In |
Wanted to let everybody know...
There will be a New England Fly In at Mansfield, Massachusetts (1B9), on
September 21.
This is sponsored (jointly, I think) by King Aviation and EAA. Some of you
may
already know more about this than I do.
King aviation folks, by the way, are truly nice, generous, and accomodating
folks. ... (in my experience) Should be a good day.
It is my hope that as many RV's and RV builders as possible will make it.
Of course, that's a selfish wish on my part, as I would like to view as many
RV's, and meet with as many builders, as I can.
Robert Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gaskets |
List, I know Pro-Seal is the accepted way to proceed when sealing the
large fuel tank plate to the fuel tank. What about the fuel senders? The
fuel senders came with really thick rubber gaskets.....should I use
them?
My first notion is to just toss the rubber gaskets and pro-seal
away between the sender plate and large fuel tank plate. My plane is a
RV6-QB and the factory did and excellent job including the anti-rotation
bracket which I assumed I would have to add.
Testing wiring and the smoke (so far) is staying in the wires!
Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | New RV 10 Chair Meeting |
Several of us that feel the pain of Paul Besing would like to bestow on
him the "honorary" Builders Number of 10-0001. Although he is the
Poster Child for Lost RV's, and Chair of the Former RV Owners, and has
recorded the hit song of "I want my RV back", we feel that he has the
courage and drive to see himself through this dark time and reach for
the sky in a new RV-10.
Caution is advised to those of us that will be meeting under "the
biggest of trees" and talking RVese, as persons who have worn the RV
Grin and lost their love, have been know to sit hi atop trees and stare
aimlessly skywards while making strange whirring sounds. Some of the
worst cases have been overheard to mumble ATC requests as they leap, and
declare an IFE as they tumble to the ground. Paul has never jumped yet
to our knowledge ( can't seem to get clearance).
Hope to see you there Paul....
Jim Duckett, RV Mourners Intervention Group
Why would you even want to archive this???
Please Don't Archive!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
RV7and7A
| Subject: | QB Fuselage / Finish kit |
I have a QB Fuse due to arrive by Feb. How much work must be done before
you need the Finish kit? Should I order it to arrive at the same time?
How long after that will the engine be needed?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | spreadsheet to convert airspeeds |
Arrgh! That's what I get for cutting and pasting too late at night.
The correct link for the airspeed conversion spreadsheet is:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/airspeed.zip
I found the formula I needed to be able to convert from altitude and
altimeter setting to pressure altitude, so I'll update the
spreadsheet soon. We're getting ready to head to a football game, so
I can't do it tonight.
There is lots more useful stuff on my Flight Test Links page:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/ftlinks.html
Kevin
>
>
>Kevin,
>
>Thanks for your help. The spreadsheet is exactly what I was looking for.
>It allows much more accuracy than the E6-B.
>some cases it may be useful to be able to input barometric pressure and
>altitude rather than pressure altitude.
>
>Note: The link below is incorrect. I went to your website and found the
>correct one.
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV-6, 32 hours.
>
>
>Someone asked awhile back if there was a spreadsheet to convert
>between IAS and TAS. It seemed that there wasn't one online, so I
>finally sat down and cranked one out. It is an Excel spreadsheet,
>zipped, found at:
>
>http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
>
>It was produced fairly quickly, so I'm looking for any comments on format,
>etc.
>
>Kevin Horton
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: carb air box... |
I don't know about changing direction but will add that I have reduced the
intake to the size of the carb, 1 3/4" I believe, and have had no problems
or loss of MP.with my o-320. kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Doble" <mark_doble(at)hp.com>
Subject: RV-List: carb air box...
>
> Hi List,
>
> RE: Carb air box depth.
>
> i am attempting to fit a will james cowling...with an O-360-A1A with
marvel
> ma-4-5 carb. Does an airbox with a 1 5/8" depth seem like it is not deep
> enough for air to enter the carb properly?
>
> Will James is trying to convince me that this will work...but i am really
> skeptical to try this out...he wants to trim the lower part of the cowling
> and avoid using the vans airbox as he thinks it is too big.
>
> From my limited research it appears that 1 5/8" is too shallow and the air
> is going to have a hard time changing direction and going up into the
carb?
>
> whaddya guys think?
>
> thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
I finally made a digital picture of the crash that was on the front page of
the May 16 Jonesboro Sun Newspaper. For those of you that would like to see
how lucky I was, and that an RV can keep one alive in a violent crash-well
with Gods help of course, after you see the PIC you will agree, let me know.
I would send it here but due to my computer ignorance I am unable to. Perhaps
the server will not allow it. I do not have a website. Thanks for all the get
well wishes and kind words. I am still at home recouping and have a long way
to go. Bob in Arkansas with a 6 completed tail and partially done wings for
sale all for $3500-contact me off list and pass the word, medical bills are a
risen.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fatal Crash Picture |
I think I made progress in sending the picture to the email list photo share
on the server. Its either new or its the pain pills. :) Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
After reviewing the dates of the photos posted on the list photo share, it
looks as if it may take a few days to eventually post. Well, that's all from
me for a while. Sorry to hog up the list so much and will leave back to you
guys that need answers to needed building questions. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New England Fly-In |
Robert,
WE'll try and make it.
But Groton, CT airport's AIRFEAST is on Sept 21 and 22. We are planning to
fly Young Eagles both days - The airport management has been actively
promoting the Youngs for this event and we are expecting a loarge number of
kids - possibly as many as 400-500. We'll be contact EAA chapters in the new
England region for pilots, etc once we have all the details wrapped up. The
airport is planning on a free PIG roast for the pilots.
Will keep all informed.
Thanks,
Chuck
>From: Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: New England Fly-In
>Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:29:47 -0400
>
>
>Wanted to let everybody know...
>
>There will be a New England Fly In at Mansfield, Massachusetts (1B9), on
>September 21.
>This is sponsored (jointly, I think) by King Aviation and EAA. Some of you
>may
>already know more about this than I do.
>King aviation folks, by the way, are truly nice, generous, and accomodating
>folks. ... (in my experience) Should be a good day.
>
>It is my hope that as many RV's and RV builders as possible will make it.
>Of course, that's a selfish wish on my part, as I would like to view as
>many
>RV's, and meet with as many builders, as I can.
>
>Robert Miller
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal RV Crash/Insurance Question/6 kit for sale! |
I'm not a lawyer, but you might ask at the court house to see if his estate
has been entered into probate and file a claim against his estate. The
executor should be able to see if he had insurance to cover his liability.
I presume you have the n-number. You might try calling the various aviation
insurance companies and check as there aren't many. Start with Avemco and
then if they didn't, ask for other possible companies.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fatal RV Crash/Insurance Question/6 kit for sale!
I was involved (passenger) with serious injury in a fatal RV-4 crash on May
15, in Jonesboro, Arkansas. The pilot some may know, was 72 yrs. old Bill
Nolan a former Osh judge.
Question: How do I find out if Bill had insurance on ME? I have mounting
medical bills, missed work since accident. Bill has no immediate family
members.
ALSO, I have completed tail kit and one wing nearly completed (prepunched),
with chrome heated pitot and spars phlogiston. I will sell wayyyyy
cheap-make
offer. Contact me off list for serious offers only. I am too ill to play
games.
My fly days are done guys-at least for now!
BTW, The 150 HP engine quit at low/slow altitude. Bob Paulovich, Bryant,
Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Bob Paulovich ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bob Paulovich
Subject: Fatal RV Crash
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Bobpaulo@aol.com.07.12.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Bilinski <bilinski(at)qcpi.com> |
| Subject: | Fuse jig for RV-8 |
I have a good fuse jig which has now built 2 fuse's. It has been cut in
half for easy moving and set up to be bolted back together. it will
eaisly fit into the back of a pickup. I am located in San Diego, anyone
interested let me know.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 8220
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
Bob,
Truly a gruesome crash. You are indeed lucky ( Blessed ) to be alive.
For those of us who are flying and not building, can you tell us any more
about the details of the crash?
You mention that you were at a low altitude when the engine quit. Did you
stall in?
It looks from the picture that the crash site was very flat and probably an
excellent place for an emergency landing. With all due respect to the
pilots skill, why didn't you make a survivable landing for all on board?
What the heck happened? Any clue you give may save a life one day.
Thanks,
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( Flying )
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fatal Crash Picture
>
> After reviewing the dates of the photos posted on the list photo share, it
> looks as if it may take a few days to eventually post. Well, that's all
from
> me for a while. Sorry to hog up the list so much and will leave back to
you
> guys that need answers to needed building questions. Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gaskets |
Tom,
Proseal it all and never look back.
I did this about 8 flying months ago and have not had even so much as a drop
leak out since. Be sure and use hex screws to mount everything with so you
can easily remove them on down the road when it comes time to do service on
those old rusted sending units.
- Jim Andrews
N89JA ( RV-8A Flying )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gaskets
>
> List, I know Pro-Seal is the accepted way to proceed when sealing the
> large fuel tank plate to the fuel tank. What about the fuel senders? The
> fuel senders came with really thick rubber gaskets.....should I use
> them?
> My first notion is to just toss the rubber gaskets and pro-seal
> away between the sender plate and large fuel tank plate. My plane is a
> RV6-QB and the factory did and excellent job including the anti-rotation
> bracket which I assumed I would have to add.
> Testing wiring and the smoke (so far) is staying in the wires!
>
> Tom in Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
Jim, You ask the same questions that I have been asking. This guy flew
everything that has ever been built. I was not scared at all because I
thought the same as you-this boy is going to set us down in one of these
fields and a good scary laugh afterwards. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. I
heard him yell, "Oh shit," I answered what's wrong and he said, engine
failure. There was not any discussions after that. I re=calll him fighting
the controls as if it was a control failure, I could not see alt, or airspeed
from the back seat. I seemed like about 10-15 sec. later we hit the ground. I
woke up and a guy was helping me out of plane. I did not see him preflight
due to we just arrived in another plane and it was parked at his personal
hanger at his home. Sorry, I wish I could tell you more and will post the
actual cause when the investigation is complete. For now all I can say is the
engine quit. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
I am sorry guys. I have been receiving a lot of e-mails asking what happened?
re: the crash.
The engine popped and quit. It was a 4, and I could not tell you exact
alt,.or airspeed, but we were low and slow and there was no discussion on
board prior to the crash other than the pilot, saying, "engine failure." When
the investigation is complete and the reason for engine failure is finalized,
I will post immediately. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
No problem. I understand completely. I remember the last auto crash I was
involved in some years ago. I could remember very little after the fact and
I was driving ( not my fault ). It happens so fast that your brain with all
that adrenalin flowing though it can't process it all.
I wish you a speedy recovery and hope your well compensated for your pain
and suffering.
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bobpaulo(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fatal Crash Picture
>
> Jim, You ask the same questions that I have been asking. This guy flew
> everything that has ever been built. I was not scared at all because I
> thought the same as you-this boy is going to set us down in one of these
> fields and a good scary laugh afterwards. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU.
I
> heard him yell, "Oh shit," I answered what's wrong and he said, engine
> failure. There was not any discussions after that. I re=calll him fighting
> the controls as if it was a control failure, I could not see alt, or
airspeed
> from the back seat. I seemed like about 10-15 sec. later we hit the
ground. I
> woke up and a guy was helping me out of plane. I did not see him preflight
> due to we just arrived in another plane and it was parked at his personal
> hanger at his home. Sorry, I wish I could tell you more and will post the
> actual cause when the investigation is complete. For now all I can say is
the
> engine quit. Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn P. Wilkinson" <gpw(at)accucomm.net> |
| Subject: | Nylo-Seal Tubing |
Has anyone used Nylo-Seal Tubing which has been flared ? Has it been
reliable? I have found out that the fitting I need to make a transition from
aluminum tubing to Nylo-Seal is not made. Need a 90 elbow
flare/bulkhead/pipe thread fitting. Am trying to rig brake lines for an RV-4
using aluminum tubing for lines outside fuselage. Solution or alternative
sought.
Glenn Wilkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
Unfortunately it appears he had no insurance. I will not know for sure until
Monday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Harris <harriss(at)elcsci.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV4-List: Nylo-Seal Tubing |
Glenn,
I used nylon braided hose that I purchased from Columbia Airmotive.
I think a search of the RV List archives would turn up quite a bit
of information.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn P. Wilkinson [mailto:gpw(at)accucomm.net]
Subject: RV4-List: Nylo-Seal Tubing
--> RV4-List message posted by: "Glenn P. Wilkinson"
Has anyone used Nylo-Seal Tubing which has been flared ? Has it been
reliable? I have found out that the fitting I need to make a transition from
aluminum tubing to Nylo-Seal is not made. Need a 90 elbow
flare/bulkhead/pipe thread fitting. Am trying to rig brake lines for an RV-4
using aluminum tubing for lines outside fuselage. Solution or alternative
sought.
Glenn Wilkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
From what I can tell 150 MPH is a good cruising speed for a Navion. Have a
> friend with a Navion that has installed a Continental 550 with 3 bladed
> prop. He doesn't expect a great speed like 185 KNOTS.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
> To: "RV-List"
yields considerable parasitic drag. I wonder just how much their
> performance would improve with flush rivets; but we'd have to use computer
> simulations or have someone cough up a lot of dough to figure out that
one.
>
> Chuck
Chuck: Years ago Gus Raspet and his crew at Mississippi State experimented
with go faster things on the Navion and they did evaluate smooth wing
surfaces. They may have used a surface treatment to fair the surfaces
rather than build new wings and though I never saw the performance data, the
word was that while there was some speed gain, it was insufficient to merit
further effort. It would be interesting to know if the University archives
have any of the information on work done during those years. Raspet was
into boundary layer control studies and I believe he died in the crash of a
research aircraft which suffered a power failure while at very low speed on
an approach to landing. I believe the aircraft used suction on the upper
wing surface and it may have had blown flaps as well. He was also studying
sailplane performance and it was largely through his efforts that Smith and
Schreder learned to profile sailplane wings. Fiberglas was just beginning
to appear as a structural material for gliders and the above mentioned
gentlemen worked,one with wood and the other metal. Early fiberglass birds
still needed much detail work to make them winners and most of the
techniques developed by those three found their way into competitive
soaring. I don't imply that only the above three did this kind of thing but
they were certainly leaders in using the ideas that were developed at Miss.
As Wortman and Eppler continued developing airfoils and the composite
structures have gotten better, the factories are producing birds that are
difficult to improve upon.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
>
>Jim, You ask the same questions that I have been asking. This guy flew
>everything that has ever been built. I was not scared at all because I
>thought the same as you-this boy is going to set us down in one of these
>fields and a good scary laugh afterwards. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. I
>heard him yell, "Oh shit," I answered what's wrong and he said, engine
>failure. There was not any discussions after that. I re=calll him fighting
>the controls as if it was a control failure, I could not see alt, or airspeed
>from the back seat. I seemed like about 10-15 sec. later we hit the ground. I
>woke up and a guy was helping me out of plane. I did not see him preflight
>due to we just arrived in another plane and it was parked at his personal
>hanger at his home. Sorry, I wish I could tell you more and will post the
>actual cause when the investigation is complete. For now all I can say is the
>engine quit. Bob
>
Bob,
Thanks for the additional info. To me, this accident drives a few points home.
1. We've got to regularly practice forced landings. This practice
should probably include the occasional simulated forced landing to
touchdown on a runway, so we are prepared to handle the steeper than
normal approach that will probably result from an engine failure.
2. We've got to regularly "think through" various emergencies,
visualizing what actions we will take, and what we will be monitoring
(i.e airspeed), etc. We need to do this often enough so that we can
do the vital actions by rote if we ever get in one of the "standard"
situations (e.g. engine failure right after take-off, engine failure
at altitude, engine fire, electrical smoke, etc).
3. Live every day like it could be your last. Don't wait until you
retire to have all your fun.
Some folks have big emergencies happen, and handle it very well.
Other folks do poorly. We need to do every thing we can to increase
the odds we'll be in the first group, not the second.
That accident picture is pretty gruesome. Someone was looking after
you that day. I hope you make a full and quick recovery.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine & electrics)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
I have had paint damage to my wing directly aft the fuel caps. I have
noticed similar paint chipping on other planes as well. I have started
installing my caps with the lever to the side now rather than to the
rear as most people do. The half-round cut out in the cap lever permits
the wind, and, more importantly, the rain to catch the edge of the fill
neck and damage the paint. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/12/02 6:24:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rv8r300(at)attbi.com writes:
<< I have had paint damage to my wing directly aft the fuel caps. I have
noticed similar paint chipping on other planes as well. I have started
installing my caps with the lever to the side now rather than to the
rear as most people do. The half-round cut out in the cap lever permits
the wind, and, more importantly, the rain to catch the edge of the fill
neck and damage the paint. Kevin >>
Possible, but the thing I fear most in that area is lazy line personnel who
insert the fuel nozzle into the tank, then let it lean at about a 45 degree
angle so it is sort of wedged in place by the tank opening and the bottom of
the tank filler neck. Doing it that way lets the airplane support the weight
of the fuel hose. Neat, except it is hell on the paint around the edge of
the opening.
I do most of my own fueling these days. When I don't, I give the line person
a good description of how I want the airplane fueled. "Hold the nozzle
vertical the entire time, and make sure it is pressed up against one side of
the opening. Do not lean it to the side."
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Picture |
Thanks Kevin, you bring up some very very good points-PARCTICE emergency
procedures. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | A baffling question! (It really is about baffles) |
I am one of those quys Van calls in his book "crazy"
for building my own baffles. A friend of mine said not
to order the baffle kit from Vans because the H2AD
engine will require some modifications from Vans. He
had baffle plans from his H2AD engine, so I borrowed
those.
The question I have and it doesn't seem to be in the
plans is "How far down from the cowling do you cut the
baffles? I am using 3" rubber strip.
Dan DeNeal
Baffled
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A baffling question! (It really is about baffles) |
In a message dated 7/12/02 8:05:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I am one of those quys Van calls in his book "crazy"
for building my own baffles. A friend of mine said not
to order the baffle kit from Vans because the H2AD
engine will require some modifications from Vans. He
had baffle plans from his H2AD engine, so I borrowed
those.
The question I have and it doesn't seem to be in the
plans is "How far down from the cowling do you cut the
baffles? I am using 3" rubber strip.
Dan DeNeal
Baffled >>
I think you're asking "How much clearance should ther be between the baffles
and cowl?" You should be able to get your finger between the baffles and the
cowl, without permanantly deforming any of the three - finger, cowl, or
baffles...
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | vm1000 tach problem |
Had a great day with my buddy Barrett "Barry" Palmer in his RV8.
He has a little problem with his VM1000 engine monitor tach.
It either doesn't work at all (with the sender pickup screwed in
tight ) or if you loosen the sender a turn or two, it (the tach reading)
bounces all over.
Anyone have a problem like that? Sounds like a bad sender?
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
Should be more like having a motorcycle- no gas -station attendant ever
attempts to touch the tank. They just reset the pump and hand to nozzle to
me. I've never even had to ask for it.
Scott in Vancouver
-6 getting ready to move to airport!
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel cap
>
> In a message dated 7/12/02 6:24:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> rv8r300(at)attbi.com writes:
>
> << I have had paint damage to my wing directly aft the fuel caps. I have
> noticed similar paint chipping on other planes as well. I have started
> installing my caps with the lever to the side now rather than to the
> rear as most people do. The half-round cut out in the cap lever permits
> the wind, and, more importantly, the rain to catch the edge of the fill
> neck and damage the paint. Kevin >>
>
> Possible, but the thing I fear most in that area is lazy line personnel
who
> insert the fuel nozzle into the tank, then let it lean at about a 45
degree
> angle so it is sort of wedged in place by the tank opening and the bottom
of
> the tank filler neck. Doing it that way lets the airplane support the
weight
> of the fuel hose. Neat, except it is hell on the paint around the edge of
> the opening.
>
> I do most of my own fueling these days. When I don't, I give the line
person
> a good description of how I want the airplane fueled. "Hold the nozzle
> vertical the entire time, and make sure it is pressed up against one side
of
> the opening. Do not lean it to the side."
>
> Kyle Boatright
> 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
> Kennesaw, GA
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
I've always been that way myself. What do you motorcycle guys in Oregon do
when the gas-pump Nazi's won't let you fill your tank? Or do they look the
other way with motorcycles? The first time I flew in to Oregon I rented a
car to go into town and when I tried to fill it up the gas guy got really
nasty with me. When I started to fill the tank, he came over and I said in
a friendly voice something like "How are you?" In an extremely sarcastic
tone he told me "I'd be a lot better if you'd stop doing that." "Stop doing
what?" I replied. It would have been kind of funny if he hadn't been such a
jerk. I had no idea you couldn't do something as simple as pump your own
gas in the fine state of Oregon.
Anyway, to get back on track, any time a line person insists on fueling my
RV (which is rarely) I stand right next to them and offer any *suggestions*
that may be necessary. The first one being not to point the nozzle straight
down and grab full throttle on the hose - that works fine with most Spam
cans, but it makes quite a mess on an RV.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> Should be more like having a motorcycle- no gas -station attendant ever
> attempts to touch the tank. They just reset the pump and hand to nozzle to
> me. I've never even had to ask for it.
> > I do most of my own fueling these days. When I don't, I give the line
> person
> > a good description of how I want the airplane fueled. "Hold the nozzle
> > vertical the entire time, and make sure it is pressed up against one
side
> of
> > the opening. Do not lean it to the side."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gaskets |
Thanks for the reply! You have reinforced what I thought would be the proper
approach skip the gaskets and use Pro-Seal.
I also plan on using Stainless Allen Head Bolts to hold the covers
on.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gaskets
>
> Tom,
>
> Proseal it all and never look back.
>
> I did this about 8 flying months ago and have not had even so much as a
drop
> leak out since. Be sure and use hex screws to mount everything with so
you
> can easily remove them on down the road when it comes time to do service
on
> those old rusted sending units.
>
> - Jim Andrews
> N89JA ( RV-8A Flying )
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gaskets
>
>
> >
> > List, I know Pro-Seal is the accepted way to proceed when sealing the
> > large fuel tank plate to the fuel tank. What about the fuel senders? The
> > fuel senders came with really thick rubber gaskets.....should I use
> > them?
> > My first notion is to just toss the rubber gaskets and pro-seal
> > away between the sender plate and large fuel tank plate. My plane is a
> > RV6-QB and the factory did and excellent job including the anti-rotation
> > bracket which I assumed I would have to add.
> > Testing wiring and the smoke (so far) is staying in the wires!
> >
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
I lived in Oregon for about 7 years (my parents still live there) and while
the "pump your own" ban can sometimes be an inconvience it's really not that
big a deal. I don't recall any gas station not allowing me to pump my own
gas when filling the bike. Typically, you pull up to the pump shut the
engine off and wait for the attendant. He'll remove the nozzle, turn the
pump on then hand the nozzle to you.
A non-event.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> I've always been that way myself. What do you motorcycle guys in Oregon
do
> when the gas-pump Nazi's won't let you fill your tank? Or do they look
the
> other way with motorcycles? The first time I flew in to Oregon I rented a
> car to go into town and when I tried to fill it up the gas guy got really
> nasty with me. When I started to fill the tank, he came over and I said
in
> a friendly voice something like "How are you?" In an extremely sarcastic
> tone he told me "I'd be a lot better if you'd stop doing that." "Stop
doing
> what?" I replied. It would have been kind of funny if he hadn't been such
a
> jerk. I had no idea you couldn't do something as simple as pump your own
> gas in the fine state of Oregon.
>
> Anyway, to get back on track, any time a line person insists on fueling my
> RV (which is rarely) I stand right next to them and offer any
*suggestions*
> that may be necessary. The first one being not to point the nozzle
straight
> down and grab full throttle on the hose - that works fine with most Spam
> cans, but it makes quite a mess on an RV.
>
> Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
> 160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
> Eagle, ID
> ebundy(at)velocitus.net
>
> > Should be more like having a motorcycle- no gas -station attendant ever
> > attempts to touch the tank. They just reset the pump and hand to nozzle
to
> > me. I've never even had to ask for it.
>
> > > I do most of my own fueling these days. When I don't, I give the line
> > person
> > > a good description of how I want the airplane fueled. "Hold the nozzle
> > > vertical the entire time, and make sure it is pressed up against one
> side
> > of
> > > the opening. Do not lean it to the side."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A baffling question! (It really is about baffles) |
In a message dated 7/12/2002 5:05:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com writes:
> The question I have and it doesn't seem to be in the
> plans is "How far down from the cowling do you cut the
> baffles? I am using 3" rubber strip.
All of the rubber strips are different and 3" may be too much for some. The
funky Van's stuff (reinforced thin black neoprene) is flimsier than the
silicone stuff and the thicker materials have a roll in them that won't relax
out.
So I would do this. Especially if you have the heavy strip and it has a
direction that it wants to lean, the concave side should face into the
pressurized air. Then grab the rubber strip by the same amount you are going
to have attached to the baffles with your seaming pliers this same distance.
Push the strip up against a hard surface to simulate the cowling and find the
distance from this surface that it wants to best lay tangent with the curve.
The distance should be somewhere between 0.5" to 1". You really want the
pressurized air to help it seal, not lift it away from the cowling.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 532hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | A baffling question! (It really is about baffles) |
Dan,
I left a one inch gap between the baffle and cowl.
Stephen Soule
N227RV RV-6A 80 hours
-----Original Message-----
The question I have and it doesn't seem to be in the
plans is "How far down from the cowling do you cut the
baffles? I am using 3" rubber strip.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SSPRING83(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Nylo-Seal Tubing |
Glenn
Use the teflon tubing with the braided stainless steel wrapping. Will
never break on you and always remains flexible for you. A 6 ft. length will
run from your master cylinders to your wheel cylinders.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "S. D. & D. D." <durosset(at)fidnet.com> |
| Subject: | Fatal Crash Picture |
From my experience (first FORCED landing in an ultralight which tought me a
life safing lesson later used in a Cessna 150 FORCED landing...both engine
failures) the one thing I came away with was the "pucker factor" has a
direct corrilation to the choking grip on the controls and the
un-duplicatable games your mind plays with reality in an emergency. The
"BIG" lesson was tought when the ground raised up to touch my wheels in the
ultralight engine failure, I was patting my self on the back about how good
a job I did in the field selection, pattern setup and approach to the forced
landing. Then as fast as the engine quit, panic again! I went to flair and
there was no stick left to round out and slow the descent. I had been
gradually pulling back on the controls in the approach and fortunately, the
stall that should have happened didn't. I lived and learned. I wish I could
SAFELY share all of the emotions and lightning flash thoughts that happens
in an emergency, but they cannot be duplicated. Frequent training and
practice are the keys to you survival if/when it happens.
Darryl DuRossette
RV-3 in many pieces @ MO1
Do not archieve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fatal Crash Picture
>
>Jim, You ask the same questions that I have been asking. This guy flew
>everything that has ever been built. I was not scared at all because I
>thought the same as you-this boy is going to set us down in one of these
>fields and a good scary laugh afterwards. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. I
>heard him yell, "Oh shit," I answered what's wrong and he said, engine
>failure. There was not any discussions after that. I re=calll him fighting
>the controls as if it was a control failure, I could not see alt, or
airspeed
>from the back seat. I seemed like about 10-15 sec. later we hit the ground.
I
>woke up and a guy was helping me out of plane. I did not see him preflight
>due to we just arrived in another plane and it was parked at his personal
>hanger at his home. Sorry, I wish I could tell you more and will post the
>actual cause when the investigation is complete. For now all I can say is
the
>engine quit. Bob
>
Bob,
Thanks for the additional info. To me, this accident drives a few points
home.
1. We've got to regularly practice forced landings. This practice
should probably include the occasional simulated forced landing to
touchdown on a runway, so we are prepared to handle the steeper than
normal approach that will probably result from an engine failure.
2. We've got to regularly "think through" various emergencies,
visualizing what actions we will take, and what we will be monitoring
(i.e airspeed), etc. We need to do this often enough so that we can
do the vital actions by rote if we ever get in one of the "standard"
situations (e.g. engine failure right after take-off, engine failure
at altitude, engine fire, electrical smoke, etc).
3. Live every day like it could be your last. Don't wait until you
retire to have all your fun.
Some folks have big emergencies happen, and handle it very well.
Other folks do poorly. We need to do every thing we can to increase
the odds we'll be in the first group, not the second.
That accident picture is pretty gruesome. Someone was looking after
you that day. I hope you make a full and quick recovery.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine & electrics)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A baffling question! (It really is about baffles) |
Dan,
I can't remember if plans specified, but I did it the way George O. does it
on the video. That leaves a 1/2" space. If you can get a hold of the
video, it will help considerably.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: A baffling question! (It really is about baffles)
>
> I am one of those quys Van calls in his book "crazy"
> for building my own baffles. A friend of mine said not
> to order the baffle kit from Vans because the H2AD
> engine will require some modifications from Vans. He
> had baffle plans from his H2AD engine, so I borrowed
> those.
>
> The question I have and it doesn't seem to be in the
> plans is "How far down from the cowling do you cut the
> baffles? I am using 3" rubber strip.
>
> Dan DeNeal
> Baffled
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gaskets |
Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply! You have reinforced what I thought would be the proper
> approach skip the gaskets and use Pro-Seal.
> I also plan on using Stainless Allen Head Bolts to hold the covers
> on.
>
> Tom in Ohio
>
Someone a while back was talking about the fuel access plate and said that Van's
still suggest using the cork gasket rather than prosealing it because in a few
year it is a good idea to check the inside of the tank to ensure that it does
not have junk built up near the fuel pickup. I prosealed around the access plate
ring and all of it's nut plates, plan on using the cork gasket with fuel lube
smeared on it, bolting on the plate with hex head stainless steel bolt with thin
stainless steel washer under the heads, then I'll put proseal around the outside
of each bolt and the outside edge of the plate that should seal it up good and
still be easy to remove later, if needed.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV4 fiberglass gearleg instructions needed |
Listers:
I am about to begin my gear leg fairings using the fiberglass one piece
from Vans. The instructions are gone. If you have the instructions for
these fairings and can list the high notes in a reply, OR call me
collect at 707-592-1001 and read them to me I would really appreciate
it.
Dave Aronson
RV4 N504RV
Fairings eeeech!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gaskets |
Even a good proseal job around the edges of the plate can still leak. I
prosealed the sender plates on with the cork gasket in place, around the
screws and nutplates, and around the edges and they still seeped a little
bit. I had to re proseal the edges of the sender plate again to stop the
seepege. Somehow that pressure in the tank will make the fuel find the
smallest of holes.
If I were to do it again, I would leave the cork gasket out completely and
just proseal the thing shut. If you ever really needed to open it, you
could still pry them off and scrape off the proseal. As mentioned before,
use hex head screws instead of phillips and you can get them off easier.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gaskets
>
> Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks for the reply! You have reinforced what I thought would be the
proper
> > approach skip the gaskets and use Pro-Seal.
> > I also plan on using Stainless Allen Head Bolts to hold the
covers
> > on.
> >
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
>
> Someone a while back was talking about the fuel access plate and said that
Van's
> still suggest using the cork gasket rather than prosealing it because in a
few
> year it is a good idea to check the inside of the tank to ensure that it
does
> not have junk built up near the fuel pickup. I prosealed around the access
plate
> ring and all of it's nut plates, plan on using the cork gasket with fuel
lube
> smeared on it, bolting on the plate with hex head stainless steel bolt
with thin
> stainless steel washer under the heads, then I'll put proseal around the
outside
> of each bolt and the outside edge of the plate that should seal it up good
and
> still be easy to remove later, if needed.
>
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Working on the wings :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Emergency procedures |
The following is obvious but important to review and hopefully generate
some input. Other pilots' practices would be nice to know. I'd like to
learn new or different ways of doing things.
Practice, practice, practice. To get good, or stay good at something,
that is the key. And emergency procedures are something you need to have
in your head without having to refer to an emergency check list. One
thing you don't want to be doing or may not have time to be doing is
digging around for the check list.
We fly some relatively simple complex airplanes. When the noise stops,
there is actually not that much we have to be doing besides paying
attention and FLYING THE AIRPLNE to get on the ground. Those things we
need to do can be broken down into some simple steps that are easily
memorized and reviewed OFTEN. At LEAST once a month I am out shooting
emergency approaches to a field somewhere. And I usually remember
everything because it is a routine, not a surprise.
My routine is simple and is in two "sections": the first, when the
engine quits, my LEFT hand has a certain number of tasks, my RIGHT hand
has a certain number of tasks. As we come up to the landing part, I
repeat the LEFT hand RIGHT hand procedure, but with a different set of
numbered tasks. That way it is a memorized routine, done the same way
every time which covers most engine outs. And, since I PRACTICE it
often, it is a routine I can say out loud, which I do, without reference
to a check list. Do I have a check list? You bet. It's there if I need
it. The LEFT hand RIGHT hand thing works much better for me.
Engine out approach. Manual flaps are cool that way because you can vary
the degree of flap you need on an approach as necessary but can be done
with electric if they are still functional. I find most of the time one
tends to undershoot the landing, so, if full flaps is getting you to the
ground too soon, take a notch off, or dump them completely WITH STRICT
ADHERENCE TO PROPER APPROACH AIRSPEED to stretch the glide, going to
full flaps again before touchdown. These airplanes do slip well if
needed. Better to be too high. That ditch at the near end of the field
can toy with your landing gear.
It is better to hit something you didn't want to at the end of your
landing run (slower speed) than at the beginning. Plan your landing spot
with that in mind. And a planned ground loop can bring you to a sudden
stop. Gear damage? Who cares. That can be fixed easier than removing an
engine from your lap because you hit the stack of hay bales.
Take off: best rate of climb looks impressive and gets you up faster but
my usual routine for engine cooling, visibility and better engine out
control is 15 mph over best rate (100 in Suzie Q), unless you are
dealing with clearing obstacles . I like it better. Gives LOTS of ROC at
that speed and a margin if you have to push over to prevent stalling on
takeoff. I have mentally gone over what I will do if the fan quits
before EVERY takeoff. I also know at my home field where I would like to
go land off airport at different places in the pattern. Obsessive? You
bet.
Did I mention practice? Going out and boring holes in the sky is great,
but going out and practicing skills keeps us sharp. Are they basic
skills? You bet. That's what got us here. Do it with an instructor or by
yourself. But go do it.
FLY THE AIRPLANE.
IMHO
Please add your suggestions, comments, and experiences to this. We
should always be learning.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Sisson <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nylo-Seal Tubing |
Glenn I have nylon tubing running from the master cylinder all the way to the
brakes. Been there 22 years. I think it may be NYLo-FLO. Not sure of the exact
kind but I used compression fittings with a little insert to keep tubing wall
from collapsing as the ferrule is tightened. Where I came through a skin, rather
than a bulkhesd fitting, I used a rubber grommet. I will replace it all with new
when I do a recover and rebuild. Airplane will be at Oshkosh end of week if you
want to see it. Red Pitt's N1GB I will park near the IAC area...
Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL
"Glenn P. Wilkinson" wrote:
>
> Has anyone used Nylo-Seal Tubing which has been flared ? Has it been
> reliable? I have found out that the fitting I need to make a transition from
> aluminum tubing to Nylo-Seal is not made. Need a 90 elbow
> flare/bulkhead/pipe thread fitting. Am trying to rig brake lines for an RV-4
> using aluminum tubing for lines outside fuselage. Solution or alternative
> sought.
>
> Glenn Wilkinson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Sisson <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nylo-Seal Tubing |
Glenn I have nylon tubing running from the master cylinder all the way to the
brakes. Been there 22 years. I think it may be NYLo-FLO. Not sure of the exact
kind but I used compression fittings with a little insert to keep tubing wall
from collapsing as the ferrule is tightened. Where I came through a skin, rather
than a bulkhesd fitting, I used a rubber grommet. I will replace it all with new
when I do a recover and rebuild. Airplane will be at Oshkosh end of week if you
want to see it. Red Pitt's N1GB I will park near the IAC area...
Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL
"Glenn P. Wilkinson" wrote:
>
> Has anyone used Nylo-Seal Tubing which has been flared ? Has it been
> reliable? I have found out that the fitting I need to make a transition from
> aluminum tubing to Nylo-Seal is not made. Need a 90 elbow
> flare/bulkhead/pipe thread fitting. Am trying to rig brake lines for an RV-4
> using aluminum tubing for lines outside fuselage. Solution or alternative
> sought.
>
> Glenn Wilkinson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
regain IFR currency.
I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in 6-8
weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays to
occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
community.
I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of the
multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the production
cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to customers.
However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is the
solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn is
the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the AHRS
"cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
present in all three boxes I flew.
I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA. Greg
Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will be
able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant future.
Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
flight.
The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of your
plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep in
mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto pilot
systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems rack
up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little but
AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but the
builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for backup
(or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their IFR
eggs in one AHRS basket!
I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of this
matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency procedures |
KostaLewis wrote:
>
>
> The following is obvious but important to review and hopefully generate
> some input. Other pilots' practices would be nice to know. I'd like to
> learn new or different ways of doing things.
>
Going to tell a little story on one of us RVers and it was not me but
no names to protect the guilty. :-)
Thursday and Friday I spent at Arlington EAA fly in and there was about
a gazillion RVs there, more than I have ever seen at Arlington. Anyway
a RV pilot I have known for years came in and when I went to talk to
him he told me a story about his approach into Arlington a few minutes
earlier. He was about three hundred feet on approach and his engine
quit.
With the traffic there you can't always stay in a position to make the
runway if an engine fails. He has many hours in an RV and had doubts
about making the airstrip with his dead engine. He did all the routine
things to get an engine start one which included switching tanks. The
engine did start and he made it and taxied in with no further problems.
We got to talking and wondering what could have happened as in all the
years it has never quit before. From his description it sounded like he
was just out of fuel. We checked his left tank and sure enough there
was not a drop of fuel in it. It would have been really embarrassing to
not make the airstrip with one empty tank and another half full. He has
been flying his RV for years and knew the left gauge was not working
right.
He thought he knew his airplane well enough that he could make it to
Arlington on the fuel he had, he was almost a few hundred feet short. So
on top of practice, practice, practice we need good preflight, preflight
preflight. Don't think that just because you have many hours on your
and know it well that you do not have to do a detailed preflight.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Sam:
I am very sorry to hear of your experiences with efis-lt. I have not
received mine and I am considering pulling my order. Greg has not been
forthright in his advisement to his customers about the products development
(or premature birth) nor of the problematic nature of it's testing. Sam,
the list thanks you for your mature methods and advisements concerning this
system.
Dave Aronson
-- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
> For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
> Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
> Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
> potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
> coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
> regain IFR currency.
>
> I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in 6-8
> weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
> hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
> various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays to
> occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
> similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
> community.
>
> I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
> satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
> Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
> time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of the
> multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
> incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
> testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
> weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the production
> cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to customers.
>
> However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is the
> solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
> the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
> that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
> was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
> rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn is
> the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the AHRS
> "cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
> erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
> predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
> with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
> unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
> present in all three boxes I flew.
>
> I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
> very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
> the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA. Greg
> Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will be
> able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant future.
> Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
> problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
> bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
> flight.
>
> The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
> the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
> is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of your
> plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep in
> mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
> equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
> experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto pilot
> systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
>
> The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
> boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
> undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems rack
> up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little but
> AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but the
> builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for backup
> (or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their IFR
> eggs in one AHRS basket!
>
> I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of this
> matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
> develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
Van's most recent news letter had a short squib regarding how effective Prog
Guard was in protecting props from heavy rain, debris, etc. I got a few
favorable responses from rv-listers who had used it. So I tried it. Here are
my before and after results.
RV6A O-320, 160Hp Lycoming, Warnke 70x73 prop, dual electronic ignition
Before: Maximum RPM obtainable = 2,550 (on a good day) - Prop seems
overpitched, but I can get it
up to 203 or 205 MPH TAS so I didn't worry about it.
Cruise at 2,300 RPM = 175 MPH TAS, day in, and day out. Very
predictable.
After Prog Guard installed: Max RPM 2,700, max airspeed 180 at best.
Cruise at 2,300 RPM = 160MPH TAS.
Obviously the aft end of the plastic tape (about 1/16-inch or slightly less
thick) was separating the air flow and allowing the prop to more or less
'cavitate' and reducing its 'bite' - air flow separation.
I removed the tape and earlier performance was restored.
General comments re Prop Guard: the product seems sturdy enough, the
installation instructions are very clear and well done, the maker supplies
more tape than you will need, allowing for some repair if need be.
But my Warnke prop (and perhaps others?) is too sensitive to air flow
distrubance for the product to be worth the loss in performance.
Prop Guard IS STC'd, but it didn't work out for me. Too bad because the
protection from rain damage with a wood prop would be worthwhile.
FWIW
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Sam,
I appreciate the honest update on this status of the unit. When the
EFIS/One was originally introduced, it used an autopilot gyro (Sigma-Tec, I
believe) and the AHRS system was added later. Has there been any talk with
Greg of going back to the gyro, or of using it at all with the Lite?
Have you removed the Lite from your panel or will your have it at Oshkosh?
I (and many others no doubt) are looking forward to seeing the installation
and bending your ear a little.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finish kit, N187CF
Milwaukee WI
----- Original Message -----
For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
regain IFR currency.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Jeff, I never did (fortunately) hack the panel to install the Lite. I
rigged a test fixture to hang the Lite below the panel
because..........I thought I might run into the issues that occurred.
All my Lites have been returned to BMA.
Here is a link to the setup:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/efis.html
The box was carefully aligned with the airframe so no positional errors
would be introduced. As far as I know, Greg is firmly committed to AHRS.
There is no doubt he believes it will work.
I do not have plans for going to OSH, unless I make a last minute
decision to come up for a night or two. the weather around here is
REALLY hot, humid, hazy and unstable......not much fun for a long trip
in a gyroless RV. ;-)
Sam
=======================
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>
> Sam,
>
> I appreciate the honest update on this status of the unit. When the
> EFIS/One was originally introduced, it used an autopilot gyro (Sigma-Tec, I
> believe) and the AHRS system was added later. Has there been any talk with
> Greg of going back to the gyro, or of using it at all with the Lite?
>
> Have you removed the Lite from your panel or will your have it at Oshkosh?
> I (and many others no doubt) are looking forward to seeing the installation
> and bending your ear a little.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 finish kit, N187CF
> Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Day In The Garage |
Today, I tried to hang my engine. Obviously things didn't go well. I had
an engine builder put an IO-360 together for me (ordered in Sep of last
year, just picked it up two weeks ago). So much for the history. The sump
still has a Lycoming data plate on it that says IO-360 A1A. When I tried to
hang the engine on a RV-8A, the sump was too wide to get past the braces on
the motor mount that run from the mount ring to the nose wheel leg
connection point.
Are there any 8A builders on the list that have an IO-360 installed? What
is the full model number of your engine? Looks like I am going to have to
replace the sump and probably the induction tubes. Does anyone have any
idea what sump I should have? I will contact my engine builder on Monday
and try to arange an exchange but I need to know what sump to ask for. The
killer is, he charged me $500 extra for the sump that he installed (you
know, the one that won't fit).
Vince
Dejected in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vm1000 tach problem |
That sounds like the problem...might have a broken connection and by turning
it that makes contact. Try lightly pulling the wires and see if they
stretch (broken on the inside).
Jim
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL 50+ Hrs.
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
(570)842-4057
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: vm1000 tach problem
>
> Had a great day with my buddy Barrett "Barry" Palmer in his RV8.
> He has a little problem with his VM1000 engine monitor tach.
> It either doesn't work at all (with the sender pickup screwed in
> tight ) or if you loosen the sender a turn or two, it (the tach reading)
> bounces all over.
>
> Anyone have a problem like that? Sounds like a bad sender?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Day In The Garage |
>
>Today, I tried to hang my engine. Obviously things didn't go well. I had
>an engine builder put an IO-360 together for me (ordered in Sep of last
>year, just picked it up two weeks ago). So much for the history. The sump
>still has a Lycoming data plate on it that says IO-360 A1A. When I tried to
>hang the engine on a RV-8A, the sump was too wide to get past the braces on
>the motor mount that run from the mount ring to the nose wheel leg
>connection point.
>
>Are there any 8A builders on the list that have an IO-360 installed? What
>is the full model number of your engine? Looks like I am going to have to
>replace the sump and probably the induction tubes. Does anyone have any
>idea what sump I should have? I will contact my engine builder on Monday
>and try to arange an exchange but I need to know what sump to ask for. The
>killer is, he charged me $500 extra for the sump that he installed (you
>know, the one that won't fit).
>
>Vince
>Dejected in Ohio
>
This seems very strange. I've got a parts catalog for the wide
cylinder flange IO-360A series. It lists the same sump (part number
74384) for all of the IO-360A series engines, including the
IO-360-A1A, and the IO-360-A1B6. The IO-360-A1B6 is the only 200 hp
IO-360 that Van sells, so you would expect that it would work on the
RV-8A.
There are a few different crankcases listed for the IO-360-A series
engines, but it isn't clear what the differences are, so I can't tell
whether different crankcases could position the sump in a different
location. The catalog I've got doesn't cover the IO-360-C series
engines, so I don't know whether they use a different crankcase that
could be causing the problem.
Cavaet - I don't know if there any relevant differences between the
wide flange and narrow flange engines that could explain all this.
Good luck,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine & electrics)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Turning back during take off engine failure and practice test |
results
There is a very well done article in AOPA magazine this month regarding
turning back to the field with engine failure. They did some testing with
various spam cans to try different bank rates and airspeeds to turn back. I
normally climb out at 80-90 knots because with the 80 inch pitch prop, you
develope considerably more power to go faster. Today Gabe Ferrer and I were
doing some engine "off" glide test with prop windmilling and prop stopped,
so he talked me into at least let's do one simulated loss of power take off
turnback test. We were able to chop power, wait 3-4 seconds and crank it
around in a 45 degree bank turn at 80 knots and only lose 360 feet. My AOA
on showed 2 yellow. I am going to try some more tests at steeper banks and
slower speeds. With the AOA, I feel confident that I can do with less loss
in altitude without stalling. ( of course all this is 1 mile up over a 6000
foot grass strip.)
Read the article before you start blasting this note!
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Thanks for the update Sam. I have a Lite on order myself and an getting
close to cutting holes in my panel, but this throws a wrench into the
works.
I wonder why nobody else observed the same thing you did. Surely Greg
himself has gone through a fair bit of air-born testing and experience.
I've asked Greg some tough questions in a private email. I guess his
response will determine what I do next.
Has this info. altered any other BM customer's plans?
-
Larry Bowen
RV-8 in progress
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 2:47 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; Greg Richter
> Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
>
>
> For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue
> Mountain Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA
> EFIS/One and Greg Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed
> with the capabilities and potential of a gyroless IFR panel.
> The announcement of the EFIS/Lite coincided with my decision
> to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could regain IFR currency.
>
> I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting
> delivery in 6-8 weeks, but it was not until the first of June
> that I actually got my hands on a unit. The purpose of this
> post is not to expound on the various delays in receiving the
> product; I fully expected some delays to occur as the Lite
> was brought to market, especially considering no similar
> product had been introduced to the experimental aviation community.
>
> I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to
> achieve satisfactory and expected performance from the
> instrument. Unfortunately, none of the units had all features
> working at the same time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA,
> has been very receptive of the multitude of observations and
> suggestions I made about the unit and incorporated many
> changes to the software code based on my flight testing. The
> display is much more user friendly now than it was six weeks
> ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the
> production cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being
> shipped to customers.
>
> However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform.
> This is the solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis
> for the entire box. (By the way, it is my understanding the
> AHRS in the Lite is identical to that in the EFIS/One.) The
> benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS was to see if the
> system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard rate
> turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate
> turn is the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based.
> Unfortunately, the AHRS "cutout" after about 280 degrees of
> turn with a resulting drift into erroneous bank and pitch
> displays, and this problem was repeatable and predictable.
> What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
> with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software
> were unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot
> errors was present in all three boxes I flew.
>
> I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I
> still feel very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future
> and I intend to have the technology in my plane; I would very
> much like it be from BMA. Greg Richter and I have a very
> pleasant relationship and hopefully I will be able to fly a
> fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant future.
> Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on
> the problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying"
> the unit on a bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours
> in an aircraft in actual flight.
>
> The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are
> considering the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology.
> Please keep in mind this is very new stuff and no doubt
> debugging time needs to be a part of your plans if you decide
> to install this or similar equipment. Please keep in mind
> that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain
> mapping equipment. I am also going to be very interested in
> actual flight experience of builders who are incorporating
> the new TruTrak auto pilot systems since it is my
> understanding they also use AHRS.
>
> The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with
> new AHRS boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a
> very serious undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to
> see the AHRS systems rack up a bunch of time before I point
> 399SB into the clouds with little but AHRS keeping me safe. I
> will have some limited backups on board, but the builders who
> are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for backup
> (or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL
> their IFR eggs in one AHRS basket!
>
> I will keep the RV community informed as to future
> developments of this matter and I eagerly await the
> impressions of other builder/pilots who develop a knowledge
> base of this new technology.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
I just returned from Arlington where I finally got to see the Dynon EFIS
system. It looked very impressive until we took the unit out inti the
sunlight. It was quite similar to my digital camera, looking really cool
indoors in the store, and totally unreadable out in the real world. I would
have serious concerns about this aspect, especially having a tilt up canopy
with little shade. These electronic units can handle only 150 degrees per
second of banking. My -6A rotates at about 120 degrees in a roll, much more
in a developed spin, though I realize this aspect probably doesn't matter
that much. The readablility however is a big deal. Unfortunately I
couldn't find a vendor selling the PDA based systems in order to compare.
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test results
This is a good example of how an AOA or LRI could save your life some day.
You should practice of course, so you know what your airplane is capable of
doing in this situation. But if you have an AOA or LRI and know how to use
it, you could possibly "push" your airplane to turn around instead of
landing straight ahead. Makes for landing on a runway instead of someone's
house.
Just food for thought. I plan on installing one in my next airplane, just
for this reason. I probably won't use it that much, but you can bet I"ll
use it in the event I have an emergency.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice
test results
>
> There is a very well done article in AOPA magazine this month regarding
> turning back to the field with engine failure. They did some testing with
> various spam cans to try different bank rates and airspeeds to turn back.
I
> normally climb out at 80-90 knots because with the 80 inch pitch prop, you
> develope considerably more power to go faster. Today Gabe Ferrer and I
were
> doing some engine "off" glide test with prop windmilling and prop stopped,
> so he talked me into at least let's do one simulated loss of power take
off
> turnback test. We were able to chop power, wait 3-4 seconds and crank it
> around in a 45 degree bank turn at 80 knots and only lose 360 feet. My AOA
> on showed 2 yellow. I am going to try some more tests at steeper banks and
> slower speeds. With the AOA, I feel confident that I can do with less loss
> in altitude without stalling. ( of course all this is 1 mile up over a
6000
> foot grass strip.)
> Read the article before you start blasting this note!
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test results
I also thought the AOPA article was well done but they missed a point I
think is critical for RV's and other short field, good climbing aircraft.
The minimum turnback altitude could leave you over the runway with neither
enough runway in front to land straight ahead nor enough left once you turn
around. AOPA alluded to this problem for spam cans with high headwinds but
for RV's it's a issue on every takeoff.
The ground rush of a low altitude emergency will be disturbing. Pushing the
nose down and having the windshield fill with trees cannot be prepared for
at altitude. Above all else, fly the airplane. Staying in control offers
your best chance for survival.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> There is a very well done article in AOPA magazine this month regarding
> turning back to the field with engine failure. They did some testing with
> various spam cans to try different bank rates and airspeeds to
> turn back. I
> normally climb out at 80-90 knots because with the 80 inch pitch
> prop, you
> develope considerably more power to go faster. Today Gabe Ferrer
> and I were
> doing some engine "off" glide test with prop windmilling and prop
> stopped,
> so he talked me into at least let's do one simulated loss of
> power take off
> turnback test. We were able to chop power, wait 3-4 seconds and crank it
> around in a 45 degree bank turn at 80 knots and only lose 360
> feet. My AOA
> on showed 2 yellow. I am going to try some more tests at steeper
> banks and
> slower speeds. With the AOA, I feel confident that I can do with
> less loss
> in altitude without stalling. ( of course all this is 1 mile up
> over a 6000
> foot grass strip.)
> Read the article before you start blasting this note!
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | AOA useage in practice |
Paul Besing wrote regarding AOA use:Just food for thought. I plan on
installing one in my next airplane, just
for this reason. I probably won't use it that much, but you can bet I"ll
use it in the event I have an emergency.
----------------------------------
After flying 300 hours with the Proprietary Systems AOA, it has become my
primary instrument during all landings. Keeps the head out of the cockpit
during approaches and landing!!
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA useage in practice |
>
>Paul Besing wrote regarding AOA use:Just food for thought. I plan on
>installing one in my next airplane, just
>for this reason. I probably won't use it that much, but you can bet I"ll
>use it in the event I have an emergency.
>----------------------------------
>After flying 300 hours with the Proprietary Systems AOA, it has become my
>primary instrument during all landings. Keeps the head out of the cockpit
>during approaches and landing!!
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
>
Actually, Paul, I think you would want to use it all the time, as
Bernie is doing. If you don't use it every day, odds are you won't
even think to look at it if you ever have an emergency.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine & electrics)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
dear listers
still attempting to cool my oil temps down. here is the set up
rv6a 0360 180hp lyc hartzell c/s chrome cylinders, positeck oil
cooler on the firewall with 3" scat tube from behind #4 cylinder. all
cylinders head temps are equal at 350 degrees. oil temp gets to 245 degrees
on the 3rd landing if i stay in the pattern, if i fly off straight and level,
it barely comes down to 235 and as soon as i slow down to pattern speeds, its
back up to redline. climb out is at 110 mph.
does this seem abnormal? seems too hot for me. how do i tell if it is the oil
temp thats hot or the gauge that is off?
what do you guys think?
scott
tampa
flying, but for not long at a time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
A couple things to check Hose size and Hose ends. Use the largest hose to
your cooler that the tapped holes on the engine and cooler permit. At least
#8 and #10 is even better. Change directions with fittings NOT hose ends.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: hot oil temps
dear listers
still attempting to cool my oil temps down. here is the set up
rv6a 0360 180hp lyc hartzell c/s chrome cylinders, positeck oil
cooler on the firewall with 3" scat tube from behind #4 cylinder. all
cylinders head temps are equal at 350 degrees. oil temp gets to 245 degrees
on the 3rd landing if i stay in the pattern, if i fly off straight and
level,
it barely comes down to 235 and as soon as i slow down to pattern speeds,
its
back up to redline. climb out is at 110 mph.
does this seem abnormal? seems too hot for me. how do i tell if it is the
oil
temp thats hot or the gauge that is off?
what do you guys think?
scott
tampa
flying, but for not long at a time
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
hi cy
i should have mentioned my hoses are #8. they only have 2-45 degree fittinigs
and 2- 90 degree fittings at the cooler.
thanks
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
>
>dear listers
>still attempting to cool my oil temps down. here is the set up
>rv6a 0360 180hp lyc hartzell c/s chrome cylinders, positeck oil
>cooler on the firewall with 3" scat tube from behind #4 cylinder. all
>cylinders head temps are equal at 350 degrees. oil temp gets to 245 degrees
>on the 3rd landing if i stay in the pattern, if i fly off straight and level,
>it barely comes down to 235 and as soon as i slow down to pattern speeds, its
>back up to redline. climb out is at 110 mph.
>does this seem abnormal? seems too hot for me. how do i tell if it is the oil
>temp thats hot or the gauge that is off?
>what do you guys think?
>scott
>tampa
>flying, but for not long at a time
>
If you want to check the accuracy of the oil temp gauge, you need to
find a way to get the oil temp sender in a pot of boiling water. The
water will be at 212 deg F if it is rapidly boiling.
Taking the data from the standard atmosphere tables, and combining it
with my Steam Tables (I knew those old Mech Eng books would come in
handy someday :), I get:
pressure altitude (ft) vs boiling point of water (deg F):
(ft) (deg F)
0 212.0
1,000 210.2
2,000 208.3
3,000 206.5
4,000 204.7
5,000 202.9
6,000 201.0
7,000 199.2
8,000 197.4
9,000 195.5
10,000 193.7
Good luck,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (installing engine & electrics)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
Scott,
How many hours on the engine?
What oil are you using?
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: hot oil temps
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:45:14 EDT
-- RV-List message posted by: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
dear listers
still attempting to cool my oil temps down. here is the set up
rv6a 0360 180hp lyc hartzell c/s chrome cylinders, positeck oil
cooler on the firewall with 3" scat tube from behind #4 cylinder. all
cylinders head temps are equal at 350 degrees. oil temp gets to 245 degrees
on the 3rd landing if i stay in the pattern, if i fly off straight and level,
it barely comes down to 235 and as soon as i slow down to pattern speeds, its
back up to redline. climb out is at 110 mph.
does this seem abnormal? seems too hot for me. how do i tell if it is the oil
temp thats hot or the gauge that is off?
what do you guys think?
scott
tampa
flying, but for not long at a time
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
hi chuck
600 TTSN, 100 mineral oil, it runs smooth and cool and strong, but those
darn oil temps are high.no oil filter other than the screen.
scott
tampa
flying whoooo hooooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
Check the baffling in the cowl. Is the rubber material bent over forwards. Is
there enough
material so that it stays bent forward when you fly. Any other possible air leaks
that could be
keeping the maximum possible airflow from running through your cooler? If you
have a big port
for your cabin heat, try putting in a restrictor plate or an airflow control door.
Also check the oil cooler itself for cleanliness (inside and out) and easy outflow
of the air.
You can easily check your instrument by putting the sender in a can of boiling
water. 212
degrees at sea level. A bit lower at higher elevations. I think its 197 where
I'm at.
...and if all that doesn't work, you might just have to move to Colorado. I had
the opposite
problem. In winter it wouldn't heat up much past 140. I put in a flow door to
block air
access to the oil cooler and even with it fully closed, it will still barely get
to 180.
Andy
> still attempting to cool my oil temps down. here is the set up
> rv6a 0360 180hp lyc hartzell c/s chrome cylinders, positeck oil
> cooler on the firewall with 3" scat tube from behind #4 cylinder. all
> cylinders head temps are equal at 350 degrees. oil temp gets to 245 degrees
> on the 3rd landing if i stay in the pattern, if i fly off straight and level,
> it barely comes down to 235 and as soon as i slow down to pattern speeds, its
> back up to redline. climb out is at 110 mph.
> does this seem abnormal? seems too hot for me. how do i tell if it is the oil
> temp thats hot or the gauge that is off?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test results
when I tested the LRI I couldn't get it too read correctly when pulling more
than 1G. I tried stalls from 1 to 5G's. Only in straight 1G courses was I
able to get true readings. My feelings are to practice and learn your
plane, the stick pressure is talking to you. The LRI did give more accurate
readings at low speeds in comparison to the ASI. I was able to land as slow
as 2 kts over stall speed. Trust yourself, not some gauge. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Sam - too bad, I have 700 great hours in a gyroless -6A, from AK to the
Bahamas. Try cruising at 16,500', it's usually pretty cool up there! :-)
Kevin
> the weather around here is
> REALLY hot, humid, hazy and unstable......not much fun for a long trip
> in a gyroless RV. ;-)
>
> Sam
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Engine out glide |
Listers:
As an emergency procedure practice, I occasionally try to make a spot
landing by pulling the engine to idle on downwind to simulate engine out. I
have never thought this was very realistic, theorizing, that with my fixed
pitch prop, there is so much residual thrust that it would not be similar to
an actual engine failure.
Today, in the Bernie Kerr, "lets actually find out" spirit, I decided to
see.
I have an RV-6, with an O-360 and Sensenich 72FM8 83 inch pitch propeller.
Today I flew at about 1650 pounds with a secretary to take down the data.
Just about all the tests were timed descents from 10,000 MSL (12,000 DA) to
9,000. The secretary timed to the nearest second. I held 80 knots
indicated to within 1/2 knot. I did one test from 9,000 to 8,000 and got
the identical time that I did from 10,000 to 9,000 in the same
configuration. I stabilized at 80 knots about 200 feet above 10,000 and
started the timer as I descended through that altitude. I thumped on the
instrument panel to cut down altimeter stiction.
I thought it was interesting that for the tests where I shut the engine down
at 80 knots, the fact the engine was not running, was not really noticable
by sound or feel. Likewise when I would start the engine from a windmilling
propeller, the fact that it was now running was not really noticable.
The data for a 1,000 foot descent:
Engine at idle 1 minute 11 seconds (845 fpm)
Engine not running; propeller windmilling 1 minute 5 seconds (923 fpm)
Engine not running; propeller stopped 1 minute 6 seconds (909 fpm)
This is the order I thought it would be, but I thought there were be much
more difference than there is. It really seems about the same in each of
the configurations. During an actual emergency, these small differences
would be overwhelmed by other factors such as how hard, and in what
direction the wind is blowing.
I think it does show it is not worth it to stop the propeller in my
airplane. On the first attempt I had to slow to 60 knots to get it to stop.
I tried an airflow start. It took about 1500 feet of altitude to get the
120 knots necessary for the propeller to start rotating enough to start. It
moved a little before that. If I would have been more aggressive, it would
not have taken so much alitutude.
I decide to go ahead and land with the engine not running. I stayed close
to the key point and everything went fine. This time the propeller stopped
when I slowed to 70 knots turning from base to final. It seemed like the
deceleration during the flare was a little faster than normal (with a fixed
pitch prop) and I ended up with a firm tailwheel first landing, even though
I had added 5 knots to my normal 65 knot approach speed. I purposely
approached a bit high but had no problem making the mid runway (4,600 ft)
turnoff with enough inertia to clear the runway to startup for the taxi to
the hangar.
Things would likely be VERY different with a constant speed prop.
Now I know ole Brian Denk could have told us all this stuff, but it could be
he failed to take the proper notes.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
In a message dated 7/14/02 6:24:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
n5lp(at)carlsbad.net writes:
<< Listers:
As an emergency procedure practice, I occasionally try to make a spot
landing by pulling the engine to idle on downwind to simulate engine out. I
have never thought this was very realistic, theorizing, that with my fixed
pitch prop, there is so much residual thrust that it would not be similar to
an actual engine failure. >>
I was practicing emergency landings today too. The biggest problem I
encountered was that the airplane glides better than it should ;-) and I was
consistantly high when I reached my chosen emergency field.
The current issue (July, 2002) of Sport Aviation has an article (beginning on
p 133)in which the author determines the ideal glide speed for the RV-6a.
The conclusion was that 92 mph is the magic number, but there was a +/- 10
mph range (80 - 100 mph) where there was very little performance difference.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cylinder Cooling |
Gary, thanks for the input. What do you mean by the "low pressure lip"
discussed below? Is this like Cessna's? A little "ramp" on the outside
of the edge of the cowl at the exit? The smoother like the 8's have
would really be tough with the -A, there is so much junk there. I might
try taping on some sort of wedges, to see if anything happens. I did
put the front dams back on, and things improved (backs cooled, fronts
warmed).
Thanks again.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 174 hours
> "A" model planes may require cowl outlet enhancement such as
> larger outlet and/or a "low pressure lip for overall temp reduction.
>
> Exit air smoother augmenter on the firewall bottom edge like the RV-8.
>
> What did I leave out?
>
> Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test
results
Kevin,
During my BFR, I had an aerobatic instructor CFI and he did hard accel
stalls both directions and the propietary AOA rang the top light just as it
broke. I believe this instrument over the seat of my pants especially in an
emergency when the old adrenlin is pumping!!
Bernie
>From: "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Turning back during take off engine failure and
>practice test results
>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:34:17 -0700
>
>
>when I tested the LRI I couldn't get it too read correctly when pulling
>more
>than 1G. I tried stalls from 1 to 5G's. Only in straight 1G courses was I
>able to get true readings. My feelings are to practice and learn your
>plane, the stick pressure is talking to you. The LRI did give more
>accurate
>readings at low speeds in comparison to the ASI. I was able to land as slow
>as 2 kts over stall speed. Trust yourself, not some gauge. Kevin
>
>
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
Larry,
My data basically confirmed what you said but I wanted to repeat a few of
them before I gave any numbers. Wow, you dead sticked it in on purpose.
Funny I got a glider rating a long time ago, but have a hard time convincing
myself to do the engine off landing. Thanks to you and Ed Anderson, I'll
believe I can do it if required and continue to practice at a safe altitude.
Bernie
>From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Engine out glide
>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:22:47 -0600
>
>
>Listers:
>
>As an emergency procedure practice, I occasionally try to make a spot
>landing by pulling the engine to idle on downwind to simulate engine out.
>I
>have never thought this was very realistic, theorizing, that with my fixed
>pitch prop, there is so much residual thrust that it would not be similar
>to
>an actual engine failure.
>
>Today, in the Bernie Kerr, "lets actually find out" spirit, I decided to
>see.
>
>I have an RV-6, with an O-360 and Sensenich 72FM8 83 inch pitch propeller.
>Today I flew at about 1650 pounds with a secretary to take down the data.
>Just about all the tests were timed descents from 10,000 MSL (12,000 DA) to
>9,000. The secretary timed to the nearest second. I held 80 knots
>indicated to within 1/2 knot. I did one test from 9,000 to 8,000 and got
>the identical time that I did from 10,000 to 9,000 in the same
>configuration. I stabilized at 80 knots about 200 feet above 10,000 and
>started the timer as I descended through that altitude. I thumped on the
>instrument panel to cut down altimeter stiction.
>
>I thought it was interesting that for the tests where I shut the engine
>down
>at 80 knots, the fact the engine was not running, was not really noticable
>by sound or feel. Likewise when I would start the engine from a
>windmilling
>propeller, the fact that it was now running was not really noticable.
>
>The data for a 1,000 foot descent:
>
>Engine at idle 1 minute 11 seconds (845 fpm)
>Engine not running; propeller windmilling 1 minute 5 seconds (923 fpm)
>Engine not running; propeller stopped 1 minute 6 seconds (909 fpm)
>
>This is the order I thought it would be, but I thought there were be much
>more difference than there is. It really seems about the same in each of
>the configurations. During an actual emergency, these small differences
>would be overwhelmed by other factors such as how hard, and in what
>direction the wind is blowing.
>
>I think it does show it is not worth it to stop the propeller in my
>airplane. On the first attempt I had to slow to 60 knots to get it to
>stop.
>
>I tried an airflow start. It took about 1500 feet of altitude to get the
>120 knots necessary for the propeller to start rotating enough to start.
>It
>moved a little before that. If I would have been more aggressive, it would
>not have taken so much alitutude.
>
>I decide to go ahead and land with the engine not running. I stayed close
>to the key point and everything went fine. This time the propeller stopped
>when I slowed to 70 knots turning from base to final. It seemed like the
>deceleration during the flare was a little faster than normal (with a
>fixed
>pitch prop) and I ended up with a firm tailwheel first landing, even though
>I had added 5 knots to my normal 65 knot approach speed. I purposely
>approached a bit high but had no problem making the mid runway (4,600 ft)
>turnoff with enough inertia to clear the runway to startup for the taxi to
>the hangar.
>
>Things would likely be VERY different with a constant speed prop.
>
>Now I know ole Brian Denk could have told us all this stuff, but it could
>be
>he failed to take the proper notes.
>
>Larry Pardue
>Carlsbad, NM
>
>RV-6 N441LP Flying
>http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
>
>
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
3 rotor wrote:
>
>
> Sam - too bad, I have 700 great hours in a gyroless -6A, from AK to the
> Bahamas.
And I have right at 400 hrs in a gyroless RV-6, from Florida to Arizona,
Alabama to Wisconsin, most hours were indeed great, and a few were
downright disagreeable. Took two days to make the four-hour trip home
from OSH in 2000, and spent a full day scud running last year from OSH
at around 500' AGL in two mile visibility.
The weather is going to have to be better than that this year to get me
to the land of over-priced airshows.... ;-)
> Try cruising at 16,500', it's usually pretty cool up there! :-)
Not much help even with oxygen (which I don't have) when the buildups
are over 20K'....and there is a solid undercast for 550 miles.
Sam Buchanan (well-traveled VFR RV-6 with a wimp pilot who doesn't like
to fly gyroless in or over clouds)
===========================
> Kevin
> > the weather around here is
> > REALLY hot, humid, hazy and unstable......not much fun for a long trip
> > in a gyroless RV. ;-)
> >
> > Sam
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
Larry,
Marry that secretary!
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue"
Subject: RV-List: Engine out glide
> Today I flew at about 1650 pounds with a secretary to take down the data.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
>
>In a message dated 7/14/02 6:24:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>n5lp(at)carlsbad.net writes:
>
><< Listers:
>
> As an emergency procedure practice, I occasionally try to make a spot
> landing by pulling the engine to idle on downwind to simulate engine out. I
> have never thought this was very realistic, theorizing, that with my fixed
> pitch prop, there is so much residual thrust that it would not be similar to
> an actual engine failure. >>
>
>I was practicing emergency landings today too. The biggest problem I
>encountered was that the airplane glides better than it should ;-) and I was
>consistantly high when I reached my chosen emergency field.
>
>The current issue (July, 2002) of Sport Aviation has an article (beginning on
>p 133)in which the author determines the ideal glide speed for the RV-6a.
>The conclusion was that 92 mph is the magic number, but there was a +/- 10
>mph range (80 - 100 mph) where there was very little performance difference.
>
>Kyle Boatright
>0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
>Kennesaw, GA
>http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
I applaud all the guys that are doing the flight testing to determine
how their aircraft performs and handles in engine-out situations.
Once you know how your aircraft performs in various conditions, you
can use this information to fine tune your emergency procedures (e.g.
what speed to use for best glide, should you try to get the prop to
stop windmilling, what is the minimum altitude before thinking about
turning back to the runway, can you safely raise the flaps if you're
a bit low on the glide, etc)
It is also heartening to read of everyone who is practicing their
forced landings. This is the way to improve the odds that you'll
save your butt, and maybe even the aircraft if you ever have an
engine failure.
Of course, like any flight testing, or training, be sure to use a
build-up technique, starting with the easy stuff, that has lots of
margin for error, before you move to the more difficult flight tests
or training scenarios.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fibreglas, yuck)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
>Now I know ole Brian Denk could have told us all this stuff, but it could
>be
>he failed to take the proper notes.
>
>Larry Pardue
>Carlsbad, NM
Yeah, I was somewhat occupied at the time and couldn't find my notepad!
And, my secretary was busy staying quiet and probably wondering why it got
so damn quiet all of a sudden. The last thing I heard Debbie say after I
told her we had no engine power was, "OK, I'll shut up now!"
For those who do not know, I had an engine out for real just after my 40
hour test phase. Which goes to show you that you must NEVER assume that
just because your new pride and joy has made it past the magical FAA
mandated period, that you can fall asleep at the wheel!
I had plenty of altitude to figure out what to do, and had an airport off my
left wing. The engine was firing, but just barely, until the prop stopped
on final. I found that 85mph indicated worked well, and provided plenty of
control authority and energy for the flare. I did let it get a bit slow on
short final, and the sink rate got out of hand. All it took was to drop the
nose a bit to get a few extra mph on the meter and all was well. It took
several descending circles to end up at a high key point, where I decided to
simply fly my normal, slipping approach. Learn the wonders of the slip
folks, it's like money in the bank.
Sure, I had all the "oh hell, I'm gonna prang my airplane" fears initially
when the engine started coughing, but those soon went away and were replaced
with a mental mantra of "fly the airplane son, airspeed, runway position and
wind direction....". The wind was mostly down the runway at Grants/Milan
airport, but gusting a bit from the west. I did make one mistake in that I
flew downwind out a bit too far on the last circle. A sudden increase in
the headwind component could have ruined my whole day. There is a shallow
ditch and a fence at the approach end of the runway.
As it turned out, I ended up grooving onto base and final at a fairly normal
altitude, and started the flare right over the threshold. I actually placed
the airplane better than I do with power! No kidding folks. You'd be
amazed at what you can do when you REALLY need to get it right..the FIRST
time.
I had enough rolling energy to coast right off the runway and onto the
ramp...as if I had planned it that way all along. After sitting there for a
few moments and verifying that we were not on fire and Debbie hadn't vapor
locked on me, the initial "holy sh*t" feeling subsided. I just had to get
out and see what happened to my engine. Fuel was pouring out of the cowling
from a flooded carb. A bit of red RTV that I used (NEVER DO THIS!!) on the
carburetor inlet filter nut had broken loose and locked up the float. The
kind old fella working the FBO helped me pull the cowling and carb. We
disassembled the Marvel Schebler (Marvelous Dribbler as he called it) and
found nothing mechanically wrong. We performed a thorough flushing with
clean fuel and it was good to go. A short flight over the airport proved
all was well and it has been ever since.
Yes indeed folks, pull that power and try placing it on that runway a few
times. The constant speed crowd have another variable in the gliding
equation to work with: you have an onboard speed brake up front, but you
gotta have oil pressure to drive it. You'll have to learn to control the
glide at full fine and coarse pitch. Those of us with the solid hunk of
tree or alloy up front won't see much difference between idling and totally
stopped prop. Still, that view of the prop...totally motionless, is quite
inspirational.
Fly safe folks.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
unofficial holder of RV8 glider rating
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Surface Area - For Painting |
I'm to starting thinking about painting - meaning the end of all those endless
little details is in sight.
Most paint supplier quote in sq. ft. coverage per gallon (generally the 32 oz.
US gallon and not the 40 oz. imp gallon that we dare no longer speak of except
in whispers in out of the way places due to government edict here in Canada.)
So the question becomes what is the surface area of an RV-6A that needs paint
?
Van's claims a wing area of 110 sq. ft. Doubling that (top and bottom is 220 sq
ft. A simple wag places the fuse and tail surfaces at about the same or another
220 sq ft. So, call it 440 sq ft, round up to 450 sq ft and order paint accordingly
?? Any better theories or info than this ??
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
i have the one vans advises for hot humid southern climates, the biggest one
for the 0360 180 h/p. i never counted the rows, why?
scott
tampa
did i read somewhere where they are redesigning the cooler and take back
exchanges?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
I just had my Biannual with Mike Seger and we practiced the engine failure.
His advise was to leave the prop in fine (flat, most drag) pitch until on
final and it looked like you might not make it and need a little bit of extra
range.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 180CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "S. D. & D. D." <durosset(at)fidnet.com> |
I am driving from Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri, area through St. Louis, MO,
then north toward Oshkosh. I have a 2 person dorm room reserved at the Univ
of WI. Wife is not able to go this year so I am willing share ride and/or
room with non-smoker for splitting costs. The total for the room was $240
for the week. Plans are to arrive late Monday the 22nd and return Sunday the
28th or Monday the 29th.
Contact me offline if you are interested.
Darryl DuRossette
durosset(at)fidnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert J. Dean" <deanrobertj(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer |
I am just started to rivet together the skeleton for the horizontal
stabilizer.
Specifically, I am riveting the Rear Spar Reimforcement Bar (HS-609PP)
to the Rear Spar (HS-603PP).
My plans call out for AN470AD4-6 for all rivets with certain exceptions for
ribs, hinge brackets, etc.
I put one rivet in with my rivet squeezer and it looked beautiful except for
one small problem. The shop head did not protrude the minimum amount of 1/2
D. I put another rivet in(without driving it) and check the length of the
rivet sticking out. It should be 1 1/2 D. It was just shy of this. I put
a -7 in the hole and checked this and it met the minimum requirement of 1
1/2 D.
I am going to call Van's tomorrow to see what is going on.
Has anybody else had this problem?
If so, how is it being handled?
Thanks for the feedback. I really wanted to finish that part today and this
question stopped me in my tracks. I had a good time anyway.
Bob Dean
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and |
practice test results
Kevin,
Please clarify......was this the "homebuilt" LRI that you manufactured
yourself. If that is the case please do not refer to it as an LRI as that
is very misleading and incorrect. Thanks, Not a flame........... AL
>
>when I tested the LRI I couldn't get it too read correctly when pulling more
>than 1G. I tried stalls from 1 to 5G's. Only in straight 1G courses was I
>able to get true readings. My feelings are to practice and learn your
>plane, the stick pressure is talking to you. The LRI did give more accurate
>readings at low speeds in comparison to the ASI. I was able to land as slow
>as 2 kts over stall speed. Trust yourself, not some gauge. Kevin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency procedures |
My instructor told me that most aircraft accidents occur within 5 miles of
the airport, and for that reason he always does one lap around the pattern
before leaving the area. Makes sense to me.
Wayne
8A-QB
----- Original Message -----
From: "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Emergency procedures
>
> The following is obvious but important to review and hopefully generate
> some input. Other pilots' practices would be nice to know. I'd like to
> learn new or different ways of doing things.
>
> Practice, practice, practice. To get good, or stay good at something,
> that is the key. And emergency procedures are something you need to have
> in your head without having to refer to an emergency check list. One
> thing you don't want to be doing or may not have time to be doing is
> digging around for the check list.
>
> We fly some relatively simple complex airplanes. When the noise stops,
> there is actually not that much we have to be doing besides paying
> attention and FLYING THE AIRPLNE to get on the ground. Those things we
> need to do can be broken down into some simple steps that are easily
> memorized and reviewed OFTEN. At LEAST once a month I am out shooting
> emergency approaches to a field somewhere. And I usually remember
> everything because it is a routine, not a surprise.
>
> My routine is simple and is in two "sections": the first, when the
> engine quits, my LEFT hand has a certain number of tasks, my RIGHT hand
> has a certain number of tasks. As we come up to the landing part, I
> repeat the LEFT hand RIGHT hand procedure, but with a different set of
> numbered tasks. That way it is a memorized routine, done the same way
> every time which covers most engine outs. And, since I PRACTICE it
> often, it is a routine I can say out loud, which I do, without reference
> to a check list. Do I have a check list? You bet. It's there if I need
> it. The LEFT hand RIGHT hand thing works much better for me.
>
> Engine out approach. Manual flaps are cool that way because you can vary
> the degree of flap you need on an approach as necessary but can be done
> with electric if they are still functional. I find most of the time one
> tends to undershoot the landing, so, if full flaps is getting you to the
> ground too soon, take a notch off, or dump them completely WITH STRICT
> ADHERENCE TO PROPER APPROACH AIRSPEED to stretch the glide, going to
> full flaps again before touchdown. These airplanes do slip well if
> needed. Better to be too high. That ditch at the near end of the field
> can toy with your landing gear.
>
> It is better to hit something you didn't want to at the end of your
> landing run (slower speed) than at the beginning. Plan your landing spot
> with that in mind. And a planned ground loop can bring you to a sudden
> stop. Gear damage? Who cares. That can be fixed easier than removing an
> engine from your lap because you hit the stack of hay bales.
>
> Take off: best rate of climb looks impressive and gets you up faster but
> my usual routine for engine cooling, visibility and better engine out
> control is 15 mph over best rate (100 in Suzie Q), unless you are
> dealing with clearing obstacles . I like it better. Gives LOTS of ROC at
> that speed and a margin if you have to push over to prevent stalling on
> takeoff. I have mentally gone over what I will do if the fan quits
> before EVERY takeoff. I also know at my home field where I would like to
> go land off airport at different places in the pattern. Obsessive? You
> bet.
>
> Did I mention practice? Going out and boring holes in the sky is great,
> but going out and practicing skills keeps us sharp. Are they basic
> skills? You bet. That's what got us here. Do it with an instructor or by
> yourself. But go do it.
>
> FLY THE AIRPLANE.
>
> IMHO
>
> Please add your suggestions, comments, and experiences to this. We
> should always be learning.
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Surface Area - For Painting |
RVs take 2-3 gallons to paint depending of course on many variables: how
many coats, how many colors, what kind of paint, etc.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com/Paint.htm
RV-8, 207 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Surface Area - For Painting
>
> I'm to starting thinking about painting - meaning the end of all those
endless little details is in sight.
>
> Most paint supplier quote in sq. ft. coverage per gallon (generally the 32
oz. US gallon and not the 40 oz. imp gallon that we dare no longer speak of
except in whispers in out of the way places due to government edict here in
Canada.) So the question becomes what is the surface area of an RV-6A that
needs paint ?
>
> Van's claims a wing area of 110 sq. ft. Doubling that (top and bottom is
220 sq ft. A simple wag places the fuse and tail surfaces at about the same
or another 220 sq ft. So, call it 440 sq ft, round up to 450 sq ft and order
paint accordingly ?? Any better theories or info than this ??
>
> Jim Oke
> Winnipeg, MB
> RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
What if your engine is dead, going to course won't do anything because
there's no oil pressure to move it?
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: <RobHickman(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine out glide
>
> I just had my Biannual with Mike Seger and we practiced the engine
failure.
> His advise was to leave the prop in fine (flat, most drag) pitch until on
> final and it looked like you might not make it and need a little bit of
extra
> range.
>
> Rob Hickman
> RV-4 180CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Engine out glide |
As long as the prop is windmilling, the engine will produce oil
pressure. Of course that assumes you haven't lost your oil overboard.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine out glide
What if your engine is dead, going to course won't do anything because
there's no oil pressure to move it?
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer |
You will find that many times throughout your project the rivet size is
wrong. Use whatever rivet is the right size, which may or may not be the
same as on the plans. Put the -7 in and drive on.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Dean" <deanrobertj(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer
>
> I am just started to rivet together the skeleton for the horizontal
> stabilizer.
>
> Specifically, I am riveting the Rear Spar Reimforcement Bar (HS-609PP)
> to the Rear Spar (HS-603PP).
>
> My plans call out for AN470AD4-6 for all rivets with certain exceptions
for
> ribs, hinge brackets, etc.
>
> I put one rivet in with my rivet squeezer and it looked beautiful except
for
> one small problem. The shop head did not protrude the minimum amount of
1/2
> D. I put another rivet in(without driving it) and check the length of the
> rivet sticking out. It should be 1 1/2 D. It was just shy of this. I
put
> a -7 in the hole and checked this and it met the minimum requirement of 1
> 1/2 D.
>
> I am going to call Van's tomorrow to see what is going on.
>
> Has anybody else had this problem?
>
> If so, how is it being handled?
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I really wanted to finish that part today and
this
> question stopped me in my tracks. I had a good time anyway.
>
> Bob Dean
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed O'Connor" <EdwardOConnor(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV8-List: Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer |
Bob. As you progress you are going to find many instances where the called
for rivit doesn't seem to be the correct size. This can be caused by
variences in a dimple, how well the two parts mate to one another, How
perpendicular the hole is to the surface or just variences in the rivit
length or it may be just the wrong size. The important thing is to get a
rivit gauge and start with the called for rivit and check the length. If
it doesn't check out, then you may have to cut a longer rivet to the
correct length or use a longer one that is correct. The drawings are not
always correct. This is part of the learning curve in building the
airplane. After a while, you can almost look at a rivit and tell if it is
the correct length but I still measure often to recalibrate my eyeball.
Don't be afraid to use a longer rivit if it is correct for your airplane.
So get the set of rivit guages and I personally would get a good rivit
cutter. I use the sliding bar type sold by Avery or Cleveland or Brown
Tool. Keep on building
Ed O'Connor
RV-8 Fuselage and wings completed and waiting on finish kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test results
yes, I built my copy of the LRI from the patent drawings available on-line.
In much dicussion from the past however, I never found anyone who could say
that theirs worked any differently from mine. Mostly, it seemed, no one had
ever tested theirs other than in straight, level 1G flight conditions. If
my results are very misleading and incorrect then can I assume that the LRI
that you purchase does indeed read the same through all the various G
loadings? With mine the stall point got progressively greater as the G
loads increased. Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Turning back during take off engine failure and
practice test results
>
> Kevin,
>
> Please clarify......was this the "homebuilt" LRI that you manufactured
> yourself. If that is the case please do not refer to it as an LRI as that
> is very misleading and incorrect. Thanks, Not a flame........... AL
>
>
> >
> >when I tested the LRI I couldn't get it too read correctly when pulling
more
> >than 1G. I tried stalls from 1 to 5G's. Only in straight 1G courses was
I
> >able to get true readings. My feelings are to practice and learn your
> >plane, the stick pressure is talking to you. The LRI did give more
accurate
> >readings at low speeds in comparison to the ASI. I was able to land as
slow
> >as 2 kts over stall speed. Trust yourself, not some gauge. Kevin
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency procedures |
>
>My instructor told me that most aircraft accidents occur within 5 miles of
>the airport, and for that reason he always does one lap around the pattern
>before leaving the area.
Huh? If most accidents happen within 5 miles, I would want to get hell
out of there! "Hello, San Francisco tower, I'd like to make another
circuit, would you please advise all that other traffic?"
He or you are kidding, right? I'm a real sucker for a leg pull. :-)
No wonder uncontrolled fields scare me.
Save this for April 1, okay?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
This really isn't RV related, so do what you will with the delete key...
OK, you guys have got me remembering things now with your stories about
engine-out landings. Let me tell you about my first ride in a light
airplane, back in maybe 1962 or so. I was working for the summer as a
forestry assistant for the U.S. Forest Service in the Glacier district of
the Mt. Baker National Forest, in the extreme northwest of Washington state.
It was a hot summer weekend and I got a call from my boss saying that they
needed someone to ride along as a fire spotter in a plane out of Bellingham.
Would I do it? I'll bet I was out the door before the phone hit the hook.
I drove the 15 or so miles to the Bellingham airport and met up with my
pilot and his plane, which was likely a Cessna 170 or something like it. I
knew nothing about airplanes then. We took off from the airport which is
maybe 100 feet or so above sea level and headed east for what is still one
of the most spectacular rides I have ever had. Out first task was to make
sure the Winchester look-out was awake by putting a wing under his nose. (I
didn't think you were supposed to swear like that on a radio.)
I have worked and hiked in this part of the Cascade range most of my life,
and it truly is beautiful country, but seeing it up close from the air was
awsome. We looked for smoke up by Hanging Lake, right on the Canadian
border, then poked around south over the huge Ross Lake and then Baker Lake
before climbing up to the top of 10,500' Mt. Baker and dipping just below
the rim inside the volcano's crater. I remember seeing mountain goats lower
down, but no climbers that day.
By that time we had been up for at least an hour, maybe twice that, and the
pilot said that we really shouldn't be running up the clock at the
government's expense, so he shut the engine down. That seemed fine to me.
Much quieter. Then he pulled the nose up to get the prop to stop. I had
complete confidence in my pilot. Hey, he was a Pilot so he must know what
he is doing. Besides, he was an old guy, 40 at least.
We were lining up with the runway back at Bellingham when I asked him if he
landed it without the engine too. "Oh sure, all the time" was the answer,
but I do remember he pushed what I now know was the primer a couple of
times.
He did have to start the engine to pull into the parking spot. He
apologized for that.
And next time: No, I didn't actually run out of fuel on my T-38 initial
solo, but I sure came close.
Terry
RV-8A canopy skirt
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Coonan <gcoonan(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
I went to visit BMA 6 weeks ago, to take a look at the EFIS/One. The
main reason for my visit was to evaluate the company's facility. One of
my concerns is the longevity and stability of the company. I was not
surprised by the way the company was organized. It was definitely not
professional and totally disorganized but very indicative of a guy's
first attempt of assembling a new product for a new project. It was
obvious that manufacturing is not Greg's strong point. Manufacturing is
my expertise and BMA will definitely struggle for deliveries for a
while, even if the bugs are worked out the performance.
This is one of situations where production/delivery promise are given
with all sincerity but their own logistics and facility setup will not
allow them to fulfill their promises. It is usually difficult for the
staff to see this, in the meantime excuses prevail. The concerns of Sam
and others were totally predictable by my observations of the facility.
Then there are inventory level issue, credit with vendors, lead-times,
etc. I would imagine that deposits received on undelivered product are
funding the company at moment and as deliveries are delayed money
shortages will increase the strain.
I have not had much exposure to the product in terms of performance, for
this I will yield to Sam and apparently the 10 other flying BMA
customers. I have however, delayed my ordering for now and will be
doing some serious shopping at Oshkosh. I know that BMA is planning to
showing a new look as well as some new features, but as we are
discussing, our concerns are not features but with things actually
working and actual shipments.
Gary Coonan
Rockvale, TN
RV-7 N696TT (FF/Avionics)
gcoonan(at)comcast.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
Jeff, I never did (fortunately) hack the panel to install the Lite. I
rigged a test fixture to hang the Lite below the panel
because..........I thought I might run into the issues that occurred.
All my Lites have been returned to BMA.
Here is a link to the setup:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/efis.html
The box was carefully aligned with the airframe so no positional errors
would be introduced. As far as I know, Greg is firmly committed to AHRS.
There is no doubt he believes it will work.
I do not have plans for going to OSH, unless I make a last minute
decision to come up for a night or two. the weather around here is
REALLY hot, humid, hazy and unstable......not much fun for a long trip
in a gyroless RV. ;-)
Sam
=======================
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>
> Sam,
>
> I appreciate the honest update on this status of the unit. When the
> EFIS/One was originally introduced, it used an autopilot gyro
(Sigma-Tec, I
> believe) and the AHRS system was added later. Has there been any talk
with
> Greg of going back to the gyro, or of using it at all with the Lite?
>
> Have you removed the Lite from your panel or will your have it at
Oshkosh?
> I (and many others no doubt) are looking forward to seeing the
installation
> and bending your ear a little.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 finish kit, N187CF
> Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobpaulo(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fatal Crash Update |
Dear Listers,
First of all, THANK YOU ALL for all the phone calls, get well wishes,
thoughts, payers and advise. I sincerely appreciate it, and I am most
grateful. As to my current situation, I am still recouping at home. The burns
have a long way to go, and I am in the middle of some extensive dental work.
I am sure I will have some life lasting scars but fortunately the burns are
only on my thigh and the top of one hand and foot. Although I am having a
difficult time physically, I am now beginning to struggle mentally with the
thought of ending my project-it's like a death in the family.
I have received sooooooooooo many e-mails that I will attempt to write a
generic one in which I hope to answer a number of your questions, and most
importantly, I will give my opinion as to how something similar will not
happen to you all in the future. Please pardon me for not responding to you
all individually. I have been swamped with questions, and I get to the
computer rarely these days.
Many are still asking, what happened? I have been asked nearly every possible
question re: the engine failure, i.e., preflight, time/age of the engine,
noticeable erratic engine performance, and on and on. The following is
somewhat lengthy, but I hope you all will see the purpose.
Let me start by saying the day of the crash was the first day I met Mr. Nolan
(pilot). I was introduced to him by a mutual acquaintance. We flew to his
(Nolan) home some 100 miles away. The acquaintance is a pilot and knew that I
was a builder, and that Mr. Nolan completed several RV's and was a former Osh
Judge. I learned quickly that Mr. Nolan had over 50 yrs. of experience and
saw photos of him behind the yokes of everything to giant Lockheed
Constellations to J-3's. I say all the above to stress that I am not familiar
with the history of the engine/aircraft other than Nolan built it in 1992 and
ran a 150 HP. Lycoming. I can only assumed that the engine was maintained as
it should have been, but at this time I have no proof. I do not know when the
aircraft was last flown of if it was pre-flighted prior to our arrival-he was
expecting us. Later Nolan took off that afternoon by himself and made a few
passes with some moderately steep banks, landed, and I jumped on board. The
engine appeared to run as it should even during the run ups. We then flew for
about 10 mins., which only leads me to believe that fuel contamination was
not and issue-again I have no proof. Wiseness on the ground say they head a
loud pop prior to the engine stopping-I did not.
We were at low altitude and I could not see the airspeed from my seat. I have
been told by the acquaintance I mentioned above that we were on what could be
called a long 1 mile final back to his strip-I was not familiar with the
area. I could not tell if the aircraft stalled after the engine quit, but
within approx. 10-15 secs. later we hit the ground. I was not frightened
thought due to his experience and the open farm land. I thought we were going
to make a forced landing. I like many of you ask, WHY NOT? And I must say
loudly, I DO NOT KNOW. I feel as if we hit flat as seen in the photo. An FAA
inspector told me in the hospital that he feels as if we stalled low to the
ground due to a large dent in one of the wings, the engine dislodged 50 feet
away, and we then cartwheel. I do not remember a stall or cartwheeling. AS
SOON AS THERE IS NTSB FINDING, I will post the results! That may not be much
guys but I have posted all I know re: the engines perfomance/history and the
attitude of the aircraft after the engine failed.
Now let me give you guys my 10 cents worth as to how the death/injury perhaps
could have been prevented. Some of you have posted your feelings on this and
I am in TOTAL agreement. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE forced landings, and
leave low altitude pleasure flying to the birds. No, I am not suggesting to
go out and land on a highway or pasture. I do not know if Mr. Nolan practiced
such, I can only believe he did not. I too like many of you are wondering why
not set it down in that wide open field we crashed in? A question I will
never know the answer to. Perhaps there was a combination of control failure?
Again, I will let you all know the findings by the "Feds." I am sorry for
such a long post but it answers so many e-mails and I feel like most of
us-including me-have not done enough practice re: an engine failure during
flight. Perhaps the accident was a result of engine maintenance neglect-I do
not know.
Nevertheless, PRACTICE. It is easy to get used to the traditional landing
pattern and judging the threshold-but do it out in the country somewhere and
see if your skills are as sharp as they need be. Perhaps you may someday,
without choice of course, have to make a down wind landing. Are you ready?
When was the last time you practiced for one?
Well, that's it guys. I have told you all I know about the aircraft incident
and personnel involved. Please make sure your emergency skills are sharp and
stay sharp. I also realize to many of you I am preaching to the choir. But to
you non-choir members, trust me, PRACTICE SETTING UP (pattern) FOR FORCED
LANDINGS!! BTW, dont forget the crab heat. :)
I did not mention good engine maintenance and proper pre-flighting (fuel).
Something we all do, right? :)
Best of Luck guys, Bob in Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Firewall Construction |
BlankI recently received my fuselage kit (courtesy of my wife as a
birthday gift) and I started working on the firewall last night. I had
heard all the stories about receiving free clecos and unpacking a
firewall that was pre assembled. No luck this time, nothing put
together.
Dwg 25 shows the firewall assembly instructions and it looks like
they've updated the plans to show an isometric view of the firewall
assembly. Unfortunately, this revision has deleted the drawings of the
various gussets (601G,601D,601C, 601F, 601H etc.) on Dwg25. I've
searched through all the other drawings but find no reference to these
parts.
Has anyone else had this problem? I plan on calling Vans later today or
tomorrow but maybe someone can save me a long distance call.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
The TruTrak system does not use an AHRS. We use instantaneous data at all
times, thus we can not become disoriented. We at TruTrak are very familiar
with AHRS technology, and it is in fact very different from what we do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
> For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
> Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
> Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
> potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
> coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
> regain IFR currency.
>
> I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in 6-8
> weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
> hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
> various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays to
> occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
> similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
> community.
>
> I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
> satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
> Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
> time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of the
> multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
> incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
> testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
> weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the production
> cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to customers.
>
> However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is the
> solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
> the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
> that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
> was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
> rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn is
> the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the AHRS
> "cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
> erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
> predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
> with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
> unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
> present in all three boxes I flew.
>
> I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
> very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
> the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA. Greg
> Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will be
> able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant future.
> Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
> problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
> bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
> flight.
>
> The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
> the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
> is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of your
> plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep in
> mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
> equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
> experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto pilot
> systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
>
> The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
> boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
> undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems rack
> up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little but
> AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but the
> builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for backup
> (or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their IFR
> eggs in one AHRS basket!
>
> I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of this
> matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
> develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Firewall Construction |
The parts may be in a bag. They may be shown on your preview plans. They
sort of fit only one way,
Richard Reynolds
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
> BlankI recently received my fuselage kit (courtesy of my wife as a
> birthday gift) and I started working on the firewall last night. I had
> heard all the stories about receiving free clecos and unpacking a
> firewall that was pre assembled. No luck this time, nothing put
> together.
>
> Dwg 25 shows the firewall assembly instructions and it looks like
> they've updated the plans to show an isometric view of the firewall
> assembly. Unfortunately, this revision has deleted the drawings of the
> various gussets (601G,601D,601C, 601F, 601H etc.) on Dwg25. I've
> searched through all the other drawings but find no reference to these
> parts.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? I plan on calling Vans later today or
> tomorrow but maybe someone can save me a long distance call.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Georgetown, TX
> Fuselage
> RV6 N699BM Reserved
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency procedures |
That sounds a little extreme....with all due respect to your instructor, if
he is that paranoid, then he probably shouldn't take the added risk of
flying. Being prepared for emergencies and being a safe and aware pilot, is
all that one should expect. To do a lap in the pattern after take off is
overkill in my opinion!
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Emergency procedures
>
<commando@cox-internet.com>
> >
> >My instructor told me that most aircraft accidents occur within 5 miles
of
> >the airport, and for that reason he always does one lap around the
pattern
> >before leaving the area.
>
> Huh? If most accidents happen within 5 miles, I would want to get hell
> out of there! "Hello, San Francisco tower, I'd like to make another
> circuit, would you please advise all that other traffic?"
>
> He or you are kidding, right? I'm a real sucker for a leg pull. :-)
>
> No wonder uncontrolled fields scare me.
>
> Save this for April 1, okay?
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK flying!
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
With reference to Mr. Coonan's words about BMA. TruTrak, another startup
company, welcomes evaluations of both our production capability, and our
financial status. We pay our vendors from invoices, we do not wait for the
statement to arrive. Our production capability enables us to ship products
within days of receipt of order, not weeks. Even our newest product, the
Digitrak, can usually be shipped within one day of receipt of order,
providing that vendors continue to supply products as they have in the past.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Coonan" <gcoonan(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
> I went to visit BMA 6 weeks ago, to take a look at the EFIS/One. The
> main reason for my visit was to evaluate the company's facility. One of
> my concerns is the longevity and stability of the company. I was not
> surprised by the way the company was organized. It was definitely not
> professional and totally disorganized but very indicative of a guy's
> first attempt of assembling a new product for a new project. It was
> obvious that manufacturing is not Greg's strong point. Manufacturing is
> my expertise and BMA will definitely struggle for deliveries for a
> while, even if the bugs are worked out the performance.
>
> This is one of situations where production/delivery promise are given
> with all sincerity but their own logistics and facility setup will not
> allow them to fulfill their promises. It is usually difficult for the
> staff to see this, in the meantime excuses prevail. The concerns of Sam
> and others were totally predictable by my observations of the facility.
> Then there are inventory level issue, credit with vendors, lead-times,
> etc. I would imagine that deposits received on undelivered product are
> funding the company at moment and as deliveries are delayed money
> shortages will increase the strain.
>
> I have not had much exposure to the product in terms of performance, for
> this I will yield to Sam and apparently the 10 other flying BMA
> customers. I have however, delayed my ordering for now and will be
> doing some serious shopping at Oshkosh. I know that BMA is planning to
> showing a new look as well as some new features, but as we are
> discussing, our concerns are not features but with things actually
> working and actual shipments.
>
>
> Gary Coonan
> Rockvale, TN
> RV-7 N696TT (FF/Avionics)
> gcoonan(at)comcast.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
>
> Jeff, I never did (fortunately) hack the panel to install the Lite. I
> rigged a test fixture to hang the Lite below the panel
> because..........I thought I might run into the issues that occurred.
> All my Lites have been returned to BMA.
>
> Here is a link to the setup:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/efis.html
>
> The box was carefully aligned with the airframe so no positional errors
> would be introduced. As far as I know, Greg is firmly committed to AHRS.
> There is no doubt he believes it will work.
>
> I do not have plans for going to OSH, unless I make a last minute
> decision to come up for a night or two. the weather around here is
> REALLY hot, humid, hazy and unstable......not much fun for a long trip
> in a gyroless RV. ;-)
>
> Sam
>
> =======================
>
> Jeff Point wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sam,
> >
> > I appreciate the honest update on this status of the unit. When the
> > EFIS/One was originally introduced, it used an autopilot gyro
> (Sigma-Tec, I
> > believe) and the AHRS system was added later. Has there been any talk
> with
> > Greg of going back to the gyro, or of using it at all with the Lite?
> >
> > Have you removed the Lite from your panel or will your have it at
> Oshkosh?
> > I (and many others no doubt) are looking forward to seeing the
> installation
> > and bending your ear a little.
> >
> > Jeff Point
> > RV-6 finish kit, N187CF
> > Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer |
On my -6, I found that the rivet call-outs in the plans didn't always result
in a rivet that measured up using the gauges. I do think the gauges may be a
bit conservative compared to the MIL-SPEC. Regardless, I generally just used
whatever rivet would result in a "pass" from the rivet gauge. After a short
time I stopped looking at the rivet call-outs and just went for whatever one
worked. I think that's what most people do.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency procedures |
I kinda disagree with you Paul and agree with you at
the same time. I mean if your not in a hurry to get
somewhere and statistics prove that accidents happen
when close to the airport what is one pattern around
the airport hurting anyone (when uncontrolled?)
however while in controlled airspace this may be a
problem. I would suggest getting the most altitude
possible before leaving the airspace and do not touch
the throttle untill you are at or above pattern
altitude. My instructor always cautioned me to not
touch the throttle untill you have reached a
comfortable altitiude because his experience showed
that most engine malfunctions happened just after
retarding the throttle to set up for cruise flight.
Any suggestions from ye bretheren?
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
--- Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> That sounds a little extreme....with all due respect
> to your instructor, if
> he is that paranoid, then he probably shouldn't take
> the added risk of
> flying. Being prepared for emergencies and being a
> safe and aware pilot, is
> all that one should expect. To do a lap in the
> pattern after take off is
> overkill in my opinion!
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Emergency procedures
>
>
>
> >
> <commando@cox-internet.com>
> > >
> > >My instructor told me that most aircraft
> accidents occur within 5 miles
> of
> > >the airport, and for that reason he always does
> one lap around the
> pattern
> > >before leaving the area.
> >
> > Huh? If most accidents happen within 5 miles, I
> would want to get hell
> > out of there! "Hello, San Francisco tower, I'd
> like to make another
> > circuit, would you please advise all that other
> traffic?"
> >
> > He or you are kidding, right? I'm a real sucker
> for a leg pull. :-)
> >
> > No wonder uncontrolled fields scare me.
> >
> > Save this for April 1, okay?
> >
> >
> > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> > RV6-a N7HK flying!
> > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
http://autos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 for sale... |
After much soul-searching, pressing financial concerns require that I
put RV-8 #81125 (N118KB) up for sale.
The specifics:
RV-8 27TT - empty weight 1110 - built from a standard kit
IO-360-A1B6 27SMOH by Bart Lalonde (AeroSport Power) - the case & crank
were certified by Bart to conform to new limits or better and everything
else is new
Hartzell C2YK prop - new from Van's
Airflow Performance fuel injection system with purge valve
Lightspeed electronic ignition system
Vetterman crossover exhaust
Denso 35amp alternator
SkyTec lightweight starter
Stewart Warner oil cooler - new from Pacific Oil Cooler
Fuel tanks professionally built by Evan Johnson with flop tube in left
tank
Infinity grip with PTT, coolie hat two-axis trim, start button, flap
switch & two unassigned buttons
Deluxe throttle quadrant from Van's
All instruments & avionics brand new:
UMA airspeed indicator - knots
SigmaTek attitude indicator - vacuum
Altimeter - 20K'
Turn coordinator
SigmaTek directional gyro - vacuum
RMI uEncoder
Manifold pressure - Van's
Tachometer - Van's
Oil temp - Van's
Oil pressure - Van's
EGT - Van's (one channel - cylinder #3)
CHT - Van's (one channel - Cylinder #3)
G meter
Clock - Electronics International
Volt/Ammeter - Electronics International
Magnetic compass - S.I.R.S.
Fuel computer - Electronics International
Dual fuel gauge - Electronics International
suction gauge
digital trim indicators (two-axis)
PS Engineering intercom
Hobbs meter
toggle switches for magneto & electronic ignition
Electrical system & wiring per Van's plans and utilizing Van's harness
kit
ACK ELT
Brake reservoirs on pedals with no low pressure plastic tubing.
Cowling installed with Camlocs. No hinges fwf.
The plane is currently unpainted. The wheel pants & gear leg fairings
are installed, but the intersection fairings have not been fabricated.
Switches, wiring & strobe power packs are installed for Whelen three-way
wingtip lights, but the lights themselves have not been installed.
Switches & wiring are installed for RMD wingtip landing & taxi lights,
but the kits have not been installed.
The plane flies like any other RV: easy to handle on the ground and a
dream in the air.
Price: $130K and worth every penny...
Pictures available for those seriously interested...
Best Regards,
Ken Balch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6 Firewall Construction |
Mike,
If your fuselage kit is a recent purchase from Van's the firewall should
indeed be pre-cut and tacked together with clecos. I just bought a 2nd hand
project with the fuselage kit still crated with circa March 1999 newspaper
packing. The firewall is assembled but the weldments aren't powder coated -
I can live with it;-) My original fuselage had one of the first pre-cut
firewalls and that was in 1997/98. I can't imagine Van's regressing. Did you
get all the F601 parts separately? i.e. stainless firewall, recess box,
weldments, curved stamped side pieces, heavy angle for center mounts, etc.
If not, then I'd definitely suspect a packing mistake. If you did, I'd
complain... loudly, you paid for it.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Nellis
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:58 AM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: RV6 Firewall Construction
>
>
> BlankI recently received my fuselage kit (courtesy of my wife as a
> birthday gift) and I started working on the firewall last
> night. I had
> heard all the stories about receiving free clecos and unpacking a
> firewall that was pre assembled. No luck this time, nothing put
> together.
>
> Dwg 25 shows the firewall assembly instructions and it looks like
> they've updated the plans to show an isometric view of the firewall
> assembly. Unfortunately, this revision has deleted the
> drawings of the
> various gussets (601G,601D,601C, 601F, 601H etc.) on Dwg25. I've
> searched through all the other drawings but find no reference to these
> parts.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? I plan on calling Vans
> later today or
> tomorrow but maybe someone can save me a long distance call.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Georgetown, TX
> Fuselage
> RV6 N699BM Reserved
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New RV-4 O-360 Cross Over Exhaust for sale |
Brand new never used cross over exhaust system for O-360 RV-4
New from Vans $705
Make offer
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | RV7/7A Meeting - at Oshkosh |
Leaving for Oshkosh Saturday. Hope to meet with as many RV-7 builders as
possible. Larry Helming has organized an informal get together of RV-7
builders "under the highest of trees behind the Theater in the Woods".
Larry's original post, with details, follows. Just look for the
fluorescent yellow RV-7 R/C model,
http://63.69.213.180/newtech/photos/P1010007.JPG
and that is where we will be.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7 (working on fuel tanks)
N14SE reserved
Don't have the full size one finished - so I'm bringing my model
------------------------- Invitation -----------------------
Having heard nothing to the contrary, here is the OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
(drum roll, please... )
An ad hoc gathering of RV7/7A builders, pilots and enthusiasts will
be held under the highest of trees behind the Theater in the Woods at
Oshkosh on Friday morning, July 26th at 8:00.
We realize that this time may not work for everyone, but what would??
Just wander toward the trees behind the Theater and look for a group of
people telling stories about who is building faster/longer/smarter/etc. We
won't have nametags and gifts -- (for those attendng from the farthest
away). After all, WE LIVE WITH PRIDE knowing we build the latest -- and
perhaps until proven otherwise -- the best!!
You're on your own for coffee and doughnuts, unless some rich soul that has
invested in the bond market lately wishes to take on that responsibility.
Here's hoping to see LOTS of you under the biggest or trees! We think
it'll be
fun to put faces with the names of those whom we've come to know
online over the last several months.
Hope to see you there!
Larry Robert Helming and Steve Eberhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rivet call out for Horizontal Stabilizer |
If you have satisfied yourself that your assembly is correct per the plans
and you don't have a burr or some such creating extra thickness, then use the
correct rivet length based upon what your rivet gauge says. You are going to
run into this consistently, at least I did (and still do) during construction
of my slow build -6.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | MSB No. 534A Sup1 10/4/00 AD 2002-12-07 Textron Lycoming |
Any one else.... H2AD or other models care to discuss plain language and or effected?
Yeah these things are so easy to decode.....
AD 2002-12-07 Textron Lycoming
Immediate plane grounding in 10 hours or 3 days of issuance. Then on to Oil filter
convertor plate gasket removal and replacement then there after every 50
forever?
AOPA old site referenced concerned with constant removal of bolts that weren't
designed for such..... BUT
Service Bulletin # MSB No. 534A, Supplment No. 1, Dated October 4, 2000 Part II
or Part III will allow termination to repetitive replacement parts...
So who can send me or direct me where I can read MSB No. 534A Sup 1, date 10/4/00
Finaly as well I can't realy figure or could tell me if my engine @ 1976 and overhaul
dated pre april 1999 has any bearing to this AD?. Engine now @ 1700 SMOH.
135 since 11/1999 1st flight of 1500 hour used H2AD installation.
Thanks
David McManmon
President, EAA 486 Fulton NY.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MSB No. 534A Sup1 10/4/00 AD 2002-12-07 Textron |
Lycoming
Hey found Textron Lycoming site finally...left off the Textron...any how the SB's
are available there thru their search....
That makes more sense and low and behold I am noe effected due to 4/1999 start
date........
Sorry to take up bandwidth
respectfully
David Mc.
DNA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and practice |
test results
Kinda interesting, looking at the patent, reminds me of an how-to
article in a SPORT MAGAZINE from *1979*, page 43, by Ron Scott.
To me, the article, without touching on theory, tells you how to make a
similar devise, using an (old, as in parts-bin) airspeed indicator.
the tittle is..'Craftman's Corner - Here's how to build your own AOA for
about $35.-'
and ends with
You'll soon ignore your airspeed...snip...snip...Believe me this thing
works great.
If I am correct, a mr. Lyle S. Power Jr. is credited in the article.
For those with access to the old files, go read it, it's interesting
Gert
3 rotor wrote:
>
> yes, I built my copy of the LRI from the patent drawings available on-line.
> In much dicussion from the past however, I never found anyone who could say
> that theirs worked any differently from mine. Mostly, it seemed, no one had
> ever tested theirs other than in straight, level 1G flight conditions. If
> my results are very misleading and incorrect then can I assume that the LRI
> that you purchase does indeed read the same through all the various G
> loadings? With mine the stall point got progressively greater as the G
> loads increased. Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Turning back during take off engine failure and
> practice test results
>
>
>
>>
>>Kevin,
>>
>>Please clarify......was this the "homebuilt" LRI that you manufactured
>>yourself. If that is the case please do not refer to it as an LRI as that
>>is very misleading and incorrect. Thanks, Not a flame........... AL
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>when I tested the LRI I couldn't get it too read correctly when pulling
>>>
> more
>
>>>than 1G. I tried stalls from 1 to 5G's. Only in straight 1G courses was
>>>
> I
>
>>>able to get true readings. My feelings are to practice and learn your
>>>plane, the stick pressure is talking to you. The LRI did give more
>>>
> accurate
>
>>>readings at low speeds in comparison to the ASI. I was able to land as
>>>
> slow
>
>>>as 2 kts over stall speed. Trust yourself, not some gauge. Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine out glide |
Larry--
I posted these numbers some time back, but for review: engine, idle power;
speed, 80 KIAS; C/S prop
1000' descent: 55 sec., fine pitch
104 sec., coarse pitch
Note that with engine at idle, going from fine to coarse pitch results in an
increase in MAP from approx. 7.5-8" to 11" (at 4000 ft dens alt) with no change
in throttle position. I'm not sure how much this changes the "thrust" of the
idling prop, but there must be some, esp. when looking at your "prop stopped"
descent time.
Also, be advised I'm swinging an 80" two-blade prop on an I0-540.
And, also, I'm advised by my engine builder, LyCon, that with the engine dead
and the prop windmilling there will NOT be enough rpm to send the high pressure
oil from the governor to the prop to go to coarse pitch (Sorry, Bruce). You
can demonstrate this yourself by trying to get your C/S prop to cycle while you
are idling at low rpm on the ground--you'll have to increase the rpm's
depending on your engine/prop/gov combo--unless you have an aerobatic
counter-weighted prop which will go to coarse pitch when oil pressure bottoms
out. You may get an oil pressure reading on your gauge but it's not enough to
cycle the prop.
Boyd
RV-Super 6
>400 hrs
Larry Pardue wrote:
>
> I have an RV-6, with an O-360 and Sensenich 72FM8 83 inch pitch propeller.
> Today I flew at about 1650 pounds with a secretary to take down the data.
> Just about all the tests were timed descents from 10,000 MSL (12,000 DA) to
> 9,000. The secretary timed to the nearest second. I held 80 knots
> indicated to within 1/2 knot. I did one test from 9,000 to 8,000 and got
> the identical time that I did from 10,000 to 9,000 in the same
> configuration. I stabilized at 80 knots about 200 feet above 10,000 and
> started the timer as I descended through that altitude. I thumped on the
> instrument panel to cut down altimeter stiction.
>
> The data for a 1,000 foot descent:
>
> Engine at idle 1 minute 11 seconds (845 fpm)
> Engine not running; propeller windmilling 1 minute 5 seconds (923 fpm)
> Engine not running; propeller stopped 1 minute 6 seconds (909 fpm)
>
> This is the order I thought it would be, but I thought there were be much
> more difference than there is. It really seems about the same in each of
> the configurations. During an actual emergency, these small differences
> would be overwhelmed by other factors such as how hard, and in what
> direction the wind is blowing.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-4's going to Oshkosh? |
I have seen RV-8s, RV-6s & RV-7s meeting together, so what about the 4s?
Meangreen is making the trip, at about 1700 miles. See ya all there.....
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
N39TB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Forero" <bert6(at)mybluelight.com> |
| Subject: | Wirte for the cht &ght... |
Hi:
By mistake I erased all messages; appreciate
your repplies, on my questions, again?
Also, I have the Grand rapid, Esi eng. monitnor
unit..
Need to buy the wire, to connect the CHT & GHT
I understand is especial type of wire...I did not
see it on A.Spruce, nor at van's catalog...
Any suggestions...
thank you
bert
rv6a
On Instrument panel...
Do ;Not Archive
Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at http://isp.BlueLight.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wirte for the cht &ght... |
You better call Greg at Grand Rapids regarding this... I belive the wire
has to be a certain length as well to avoid errors...
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A N8WV 40 hrs
http://vondane.com/rv8a
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bert Forero" <bert6(at)mybluelight.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wirte for the cht &ght...
Date: 15 Jul 2002 20:14:49 -0000
Hi:
By mistake I erased all messages; appreciate
your repplies, on my questions, again?
Also, I have the Grand rapid, Esi eng. monitnor
unit..
Need to buy the wire, to connect the CHT & GHT
I understand is especial type of wire...I did not
see it on A.Spruce, nor at van's catalog...
Any suggestions...
thank you
bert
rv6a
On Instrument panel...
Do ;Not Archive
Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at
http://isp.BlueLight.com
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back during take off engine failure and |
practicetest results
Hi, again, Bernie--
Did you note any airspeeds when those stalls occurred?
If anyone wants a rough guide to accelerated stalls in the RV-6, this is my
data (level flight).
110 mph = 3.8 g
120 mph = 5.0 g
130 mph = 5.8 g
137 mph = 6.0 g
Thus 137 mph is Va (maneuvering speed) and also cornering velocity ( max rate
of turn--min radius). Don't know what happened to the 90/100 mph data--guess
I'll just have to refly it.
Boyd.
Bernie Kerr wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> During my BFR, I had an aerobatic instructor CFI and he did hard accel
> stalls both directions and the propietary AOA rang the top light just as it
> broke. I believe this instrument over the seat of my pants especially in an
> emergency when the old adrenlin is pumping!!
>
> Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4's going to Oshkosh? |
I hope to be there. My plan is to arrive late Monday and stay Tues, Wed and
leave Thurs. Look for 464EM. I'll have my cell phone on (651-398-1184).
Always around to talk -4s!!
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
MN Wing
----- Original Message -----
From: <MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-4's going to Oshkosh?
>
> I have seen RV-8s, RV-6s & RV-7s meeting together, so what about the 4s?
> Meangreen is making the trip, at about 1700 miles. See ya all there.....
>
> Tim Barnes
> Meangreen RV-4
> N39TB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "REHughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
Hello Matt,
At the risk of really nit-picking, I believe the correct usage of
who/whom in your recurrent guidance to the RV-List should be
"RV-List: Reply To Whom"
Ms. Thomas, my 10th grade English teacher made me send this to you.
Although she has probably been dead for 20 years, I can still hear her
say "If 'him' fits better than 'he', use 'whom'. "
Regards,
Hawkeye
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Firewall Construction |
Thanks for the reply Greg.
My firewall was delivered in June but it was not assembled although the
steel parts were powder coated. The parts I'm missing were supposed to be
in bag 671 but bag 671 was not sent nor was it listed on the shipping list.
I'll have to call again tomorrow and see if they'll ship it asap.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Waiting to start Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> Mike,
>
> If your fuselage kit is a recent purchase from Van's the firewall should
> indeed be pre-cut and tacked together with clecos. I just bought a 2nd
hand
> project with the fuselage kit still crated with circa March 1999 newspaper
> packing. The firewall is assembled but the weldments aren't powder
coated -
> I can live with it;-) My original fuselage had one of the first pre-cut
> firewalls and that was in 1997/98. I can't imagine Van's regressing. Did
you
> get all the F601 parts separately? i.e. stainless firewall, recess box,
> weldments, curved stamped side pieces, heavy angle for center mounts, etc.
> If not, then I'd definitely suspect a packing mistake. If you did, I'd
> complain... loudly, you paid for it.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
> RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
> Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Nellis
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:58 AM
> > To: RV-List
> > Subject: RV-List: RV6 Firewall Construction
> >
> >
> >
> > BlankI recently received my fuselage kit (courtesy of my wife as a
> > birthday gift) and I started working on the firewall last
> > night. I had
> > heard all the stories about receiving free clecos and unpacking a
> > firewall that was pre assembled. No luck this time, nothing put
> > together.
> >
> > Dwg 25 shows the firewall assembly instructions and it looks like
> > they've updated the plans to show an isometric view of the firewall
> > assembly. Unfortunately, this revision has deleted the
> > drawings of the
> > various gussets (601G,601D,601C, 601F, 601H etc.) on Dwg25. I've
> > searched through all the other drawings but find no reference to these
> > parts.
> >
> > Has anyone else had this problem? I plan on calling Vans
> > later today or
> > tomorrow but maybe someone can save me a long distance call.
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Georgetown, TX
> > Fuselage
> > RV6 N699BM Reserved
> > 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <bruce.gray(at)snet.net> |
| Subject: | Engine out glide |
Oh, I agree with you about not enough oil pressure on the ground at idle
to go to coarse pitch BUT we're talking at approach speeds here. Just
for fun, next time you're up turning circles in the sky, park yourself
over an airport, at a nice high safe altitude, set up approach speed,
and kill the engine with mixture. Now, notice that the rpm doesn't
decrease. Your airspeed sure will with that big airbrake in front and
you'll have to drop the nose way down to keep your approach airspeed.
Now pull the prop lever back into coarse pitch. Surprise, it still
works.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boyd C. Braem
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine out glide
Larry--
I posted these numbers some time back, but for review: engine, idle
power;
speed, 80 KIAS; C/S prop
1000' descent: 55 sec., fine pitch
104 sec., coarse pitch
Note that with engine at idle, going from fine to coarse pitch results
in an
increase in MAP from approx. 7.5-8" to 11" (at 4000 ft dens alt) with no
change
in throttle position. I'm not sure how much this changes the "thrust" of
the
idling prop, but there must be some, esp. when looking at your "prop
stopped"
descent time.
Also, be advised I'm swinging an 80" two-blade prop on an I0-540.
And, also, I'm advised by my engine builder, LyCon, that with the engine
dead
and the prop windmilling there will NOT be enough rpm to send the high
pressure
oil from the governor to the prop to go to coarse pitch (Sorry, Bruce).
You
can demonstrate this yourself by trying to get your C/S prop to cycle
while you
are idling at low rpm on the ground--you'll have to increase the rpm's
depending on your engine/prop/gov combo--unless you have an aerobatic
counter-weighted prop which will go to coarse pitch when oil pressure
bottoms
out. You may get an oil pressure reading on your gauge but it's not
enough to
cycle the prop.
Boyd
RV-Super 6
>400 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID R COOK SR" <DAVERCOOK(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Firewall Construction |
Mike
If you notice the firewall has been modified and the X is no longer used,
but just a diagonal, therefore there are fewer parts required.
Dave in Englewood
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV6 Firewall Construction
>
> BlankI recently received my fuselage kit (courtesy of my wife as a
> birthday gift) and I started working on the firewall last night. I had
> heard all the stories about receiving free clecos and unpacking a
> firewall that was pre assembled. No luck this time, nothing put
> together.
>
> Dwg 25 shows the firewall assembly instructions and it looks like
> they've updated the plans to show an isometric view of the firewall
> assembly. Unfortunately, this revision has deleted the drawings of the
> various gussets (601G,601D,601C, 601F, 601H etc.) on Dwg25. I've
> searched through all the other drawings but find no reference to these
> parts.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? I plan on calling Vans later today or
> tomorrow but maybe someone can save me a long distance call.
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Georgetown, TX
> Fuselage
> RV6 N699BM Reserved
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Emergency Procedures |
The story about the engine failures accruing at the first power
reduction has not been true in my case. The following failures requiring
a emergency landing or shut down have been my experience.
1 Navion Continental Cruise Broken Through Bolt 1947
2 P51 Merlin Cruise Failed coolant gauge
1967
3 AZTEC Lycoming Take-off Prop Failure
1968
4 Beech 18 P&W 985 Cruise Front Crankshaft Seal 1972
5 DH Beaver P&W 985 Take-off Failed link rod 1975
6 DC 3 P&W R1830 Cruise Dropped Exhaust Valve 1977
7 C185 Continental Cruise Fuel Starvation
1979
In addition have shut down and feathered some rough running radials in
heavier aircraft in order to prevent damage to the engine but not
considered emergencies.All of these shut downs were well into
established cruise.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Handheld com question, not RV related |
My Sporty's probably has been turned on a total of 2 hours in four
years, and kacked recently. Battery box was a continual problem (real
junk), and finally it doesn't transmit. Wouldn't buy one again.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 174 hours
Can anyone comment pro or con on Sporty's handheld com/vor?
> > Yeah, I recognize that it's bigger and heavier, but it uses
> alkalines
> > which I like and the price currently advertised at $275 is sure
> > attractive (I'd apply
> the
> > difference to my PSS AOA ).
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
I'm curious. How does the Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro work?
What's it slaved to? Is the display a viable substitute for a DG?
Tanks,
Ed Holyoke
The TruTrak system does not use an AHRS. We use instantaneous data at
all
times, thus we can not become disoriented. We at TruTrak are very
familiar
with AHRS technology, and it is in fact very different from what we do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
> For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
> Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
> Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
> potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
> coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
> regain IFR currency.
>
> I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in
6-8
> weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
> hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
> various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays
to
> occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
> similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
> community.
>
> I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
> satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
> Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
> time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of
the
> multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
> incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
> testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
> weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the
production
> cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to
customers.
>
> However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is
the
> solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
> the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
> that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
> was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
> rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn
is
> the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the
AHRS
> "cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
> erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
> predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
> with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
> unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
> present in all three boxes I flew.
>
> I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
> very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
> the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA.
Greg
> Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will
be
> able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant
future.
> Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
> problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
> bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
> flight.
>
> The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
> the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
> is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of
your
> plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep
in
> mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
> equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
> experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto
pilot
> systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
>
> The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
> boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
> undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems
rack
> up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little
but
> AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but
the
> builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for
backup
> (or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their
IFR
> eggs in one AHRS basket!
>
> I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of
this
> matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
> develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4's going to Oshkosh? |
----Original Message Follows----
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-4's going to Oshkosh?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:00:04 EDT
I have seen RV-8s, RV-6s & RV-7s meeting together, so what about the 4s?
Meangreen is making the trip, at about 1700 miles. See ya all there.....
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
N39TB
Tim:
Will be traveling to OSH with an RV-4 and one other RV-6. Plan to depart
EARLY
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,089.9+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4's going to Oshkosh? |
----Original Message Follows----
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-4's going to Oshkosh?
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:00:04 EDT
I have seen RV-8s, RV-6s & RV-7s meeting together, so what about the 4s?
Meangreen is making the trip, at about 1700 miles. See ya all there.....
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
N39TB
The RV-4 I am traveling will will be departing SoCAL EARLY Sunday morning
for OSH.
My finger hit the enter key insted of the shift key on the last message.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,089.9+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stank-1(at)webtv.net (frank stankiewicz) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 43 Msgs - 07/15/02 |
For sale, RV6A,N25BF will be at OSH for vewing, purchase. Built
and first flown ,1999, now has 375 hours, engine Lyc 0360 (180 ) 670
hours, full interior, pro paint, dual steps, slider, Sesenich pro. Nav
aid, one 760 com. two GPS's, one with moving map. Not a show winner,
but one you can be proud to own. Hangered in Ft. Myers Fl. $65,000.00
Frank Stankiewicz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hot oil temps |
Scott, I've seen some people using the seven row(smaller) oil cooler and
having problems with temps. If you have the one that Van's said was for hot
climates than you probably have the nine row, but you might want to check.
Just count the number of rows of tubes.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: hot oil temps
>
> i have the one vans advises for hot humid southern climates, the biggest
one
> for the 0360 180 h/p. i never counted the rows, why?
> scott
> tampa
> did i read somewhere where they are redesigning the cooler and take back
> exchanges?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | New Garman GPSMAP 196 - EFIS Wanabe - Nice Unit |
While ripping out those adds and floppy inserts in AOPA pilot last
night, a thick paper add for JA Air center showed a new Garmin
"handheld" GPS map. Of interest with this new Garmin offering was the
EFIS page where 5 (five) circle depictions of airspeed, HSI, Altimeter,
TC/TB & Feet/minute climb/decend ASI as well as a mileage to destination
ETE readout. My guess this a user defineable page as other Garmin
offerings allow. Price is 999.00 retail and the unit has the traditional
map page from what I can tell from the add. Size is roughly 4 x 6 x 1
inch as near as I can tell from the pictures.
One odd thing is no internet search engine I used last night resolved
any reference to the new Garmin, neither did the Garmin site or the JA
Air center site.....only the add in AOPA pilot.
The EFIS page receives its data from the GPS receiver so this isn't a
true gyro based EFIS display BUT,......this might be the answer for me,
especially if Blue Mt. Lite and other units are still in
"development".......
The 196 Garmin appears to be the same packaging as the marine/fishing
unit on the Garmin web page.....same size and button locations......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
The Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro is an internal solid state gyro
that is slaved to GPS track. This means that the internal gyro takes the
GPS track, that is only updated once a second, and makes it gyroscopically
smooth, so that it can be displayed as the correct track. The display does
not replace a DG, but when the unit is in use, it can be used as the means
of selecting track. The reason that we say that it is not a replacement for
a DG is that it relies partially on GPS, we therefore do not recommend that
it be used as a primary DG. The DG being digital is also not as easily
interpreted by some, even though the information flow is just as smooth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
> I'm curious. How does the Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro work?
> What's it slaved to? Is the display a viable substitute for a DG?
>
> Tanks,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
>
> The TruTrak system does not use an AHRS. We use instantaneous data at
> all
> times, thus we can not become disoriented. We at TruTrak are very
> familiar
> with AHRS technology, and it is in fact very different from what we do.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> To: ; "Greg Richter"
>
> Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
>
> >
> > For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
> > Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
> > Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
> > potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
> > coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
> > regain IFR currency.
> >
> > I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in
> 6-8
> > weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
> > hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
> > various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays
> to
> > occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
> > similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
> > community.
> >
> > I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
> > satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
> > Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
> > time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of
> the
> > multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
> > incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
> > testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
> > weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the
> production
> > cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to
> customers.
> >
> > However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is
> the
> > solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
> > the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
> > that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
> > was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
> > rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn
> is
> > the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the
> AHRS
> > "cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
> > erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
> > predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
> > with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
> > unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
> > present in all three boxes I flew.
> >
> > I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
> > very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
> > the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA.
> Greg
> > Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will
> be
> > able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant
> future.
> > Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
> > problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
> > bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
> > flight.
> >
> > The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
> > the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
> > is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of
> your
> > plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep
> in
> > mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
> > equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
> > experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto
> pilot
> > systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
> >
> > The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
> > boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
> > undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems
> rack
> > up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little
> but
> > AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but
> the
> > builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for
> backup
> > (or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their
> IFR
> > eggs in one AHRS basket!
> >
> > I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of
> this
> > matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
> > develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
> > "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
All,
Several of us will be making a two day flight to OSH this year from the
Portland, Oregon area. We're planning on overnighting in the Dakotas
somewhere, preferrably in the eastern part so make the trip the next day a
bit shorter. Two questions:
1. Can anyone recommend a good place to overnight in the central to eastern
part of North or South Dakota? Huron SD has been recommended, any feedback?
We'll be credit card camping (hotel).
2. Almost everyone seems to recommend stopping an hour or so out of OSH to
fuel and prep mentally for the big arrival. Some stops to the west of OSH
have been recommended (cheap fuel, nice people) but I can't find those
messages -- anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks very much,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 207 hrs, first time flying to the big one myself
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Crash Update |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, one important thing to keep in mind regarding the post crash speculation
about the RV-4 accident Bob was involved in is that the RV is capable of very
high descent rates even when NOT in a stall or nosedown attitude. All aircraft
are susceptible to this to some extent or another. I know a pilot who broke
his back and is paralyzed from the waist down due to such an accident in a Helio
Courier which has superb STOL performance and is virtually unstallable. But
when it's behind the power curve there's a lot of drag at low speed and high
AOA, if the engine quits it drops like a rock even though the wing is not stalled.
The guy I know was involved in this unfortunate scenario...low and slow,
the engine quit, and the airplane pancaked into the ground very hard resulting
in serious injury.
The RV can do the same thing and may be worse than a lot of spam cans in this regard
because of the low aspect ratio wing. Go flying some time and at altitude
pull the power to idle...trim it nose up (the way you would in the pattern)
and hold the stick back a bit to keep it in a more or less level flight attitude.
As you slow down watch the vertical speed. You can get some pretty impressive
sink rates even though the airplane is not stalled and you feel like you're
'straight and level'. That's why when you're climbing out in the RV at a
few hundred feet above the runway and 70 mph and the engine quits, you have to
get the nose pushed over RIGHT NOW to maintain enough airspeed for a safe flare
to a survivable touchdown. Fiddle around for a few seconds and you may find
yourself dropping like a rock with no energy margin for recovery. By the time
you are dropping fast enough to realize how quickly the ground is rushing
up at you, it's too late...you don't have enough altit!
ude left to push the nose over to build airspeed for the flare. This is basically
what happens in wind sheer situations too...you are low and slow on approach
or climbout, suddenly the wind shifts and your airspeed decreases, and you
start to drop rapidly. In this case assuming your engine is running you can use
a combination of full power and a bit of nose down if necessary to recover,
but if it's severe enough you may still end up in the scenario described above
where you're too low and too slow to recover from your excessive sink rate.
Anybody who hasn't explored this scenario in whatever aircraft you fly should do
so...it's a real eye opener.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Montreal this week)
RV-8A N2D finish kit
P.S.--Got my O-360 back from Aerosport a couple weeks ago, painted red and black
with dual crank-triggered Lightspeeds....a real beauty. Wish I were at home
so I could hang it on the airplane...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
I am confused now, I have to pay about 375 dollars extra to get a GPS
steering connection for the TruTrack Systems.
> The Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro is an internal solid state gyro
> that is slaved to GPS track. This means that the internal gyro takes the
> GPS track, that is only updated once a second, and makes it gyroscopically
> smooth, so that it can be displayed as the correct track.
Does this mean the TruTrack has a GPS build in ??
at this point I do not have a GPS, does that mean I would not have a
Digital Slaved Directional Gyro either or would it not be as accurate,
having "digital drift syndrome" ??
Gert
The display does
> not replace a DG, but when the unit is in use, it can be used as the means
> of selecting track. The reason that we say that it is not a replacement for
> a DG is that it relies partially on GPS, we therefore do not recommend that
> it be used as a primary DG. The DG being digital is also not as easily
> interpreted by some, even though the information flow is just as smooth.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
>
>
>>
>>I'm curious. How does the Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro work?
>>What's it slaved to? Is the display a viable substitute for a DG?
>>
>>Tanks,
>>
>>Ed Holyoke
>>
>>
>>
>>The TruTrak system does not use an AHRS. We use instantaneous data at
>>all
>>times, thus we can not become disoriented. We at TruTrak are very
>>familiar
>>with AHRS technology, and it is in fact very different from what we do.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>>To: ; "Greg Richter"
>>
>>Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
>>>Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
>>>Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
>>>potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
>>>coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
>>>regain IFR currency.
>>>
>>>I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in
>>>
>>6-8
>>
>>>weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
>>>hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
>>>various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays
>>>
>>to
>>
>>>occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
>>>similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
>>>community.
>>>
>>>I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
>>>satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
>>>Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
>>>time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
>>>incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
>>>testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
>>>weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the
>>>
>>production
>>
>>>cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to
>>>
>>customers.
>>
>>>However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box. (By
>>>the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical to
>>>that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the AHRS
>>>was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree standard
>>>rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard rate turn
>>>
>>is
>>
>>>the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the
>>>
>>AHRS
>>
>>>"cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
>>>erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable and
>>>predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error occurred
>>>with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software were
>>>unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors was
>>>present in all three boxes I flew.
>>>
>>>I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
>>>very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
>>>the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA.
>>>
>>Greg
>>
>>>Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will
>>>
>>be
>>
>>>able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant
>>>
>>future.
>>
>>>Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
>>>problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on a
>>>bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in actual
>>>flight.
>>>
>>>The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are considering
>>>the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep in mind this
>>>is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to be a part of
>>>
>>your
>>
>>>plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep
>>>
>>in
>>
>>>mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
>>>equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
>>>experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto
>>>
>>pilot
>>
>>>systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
>>>
>>>The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
>>>boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
>>>undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems
>>>
>>rack
>>
>>>up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little
>>>
>>but
>>
>>>AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for
>>>
>>backup
>>
>>>(or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their
>>>
>>IFR
>>
>>>eggs in one AHRS basket!
>>>
>>>I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of
>>>
>>this
>>
>>>matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots who
>>>develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
>>>
>>>Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
>>>"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OSH planning |
Can't help with ND/SD stops, but for a quick refresher stop an hour or so out of
OSH are these :
Choice #1: EAU - Eau Claire, WI - Good restaurant for breakfast/brunch/lunch, average
fuel prices. It's due east of Minneapolis/St. Paul and west/northwest
of OSH so perhaps a little out of the way.
Choice #2: RGK - Red Wing, MN - Nice terminal, reasonable gas prices, great people.
Not much in the way of food or drink, however.
Choice #3: RST - Rochester, MN - Nice facilities, kinda pricy gas, but they will
give you a lift to the "Hanger Bar & Grill" on other side of the airport for
lunch.
Cheers,
Brad "Sharpie" Benson, Software Architect
Computer Data Strategies, Inc.
Ph. 651-730-4156 x813 / Fax 651-730-4161
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly
greased..."
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 7/16/2002 at 7:56 AM Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>All,
>
>Several of us will be making a two day flight to OSH this year from the
>Portland, Oregon area. We're planning on overnighting in the Dakotas
>somewhere, preferrably in the eastern part so make the trip the next day a
>bit shorter. Two questions:
>
>1. Can anyone recommend a good place to overnight in the central to eastern
>part of North or South Dakota? Huron SD has been recommended, any feedback?
>We'll be credit card camping (hotel).
>
>2. Almost everyone seems to recommend stopping an hour or so out of OSH to
>fuel and prep mentally for the big arrival. Some stops to the west of OSH
>have been recommended (cheap fuel, nice people) but I can't find those
>messages -- anyone have any recommendations?
>
>Thanks very much,
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 207 hrs, first time flying to the big one myself
>Home Wing VAF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add on
that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need a
GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Hmmm, a quick look at your website does not reveal the need for a
functional GPS for your AutoPilots to be functional. Am I wrong and
missed it somehow ??
What if all I have is a handheld GPS ??
Is this an ommision ?? Sounds like a big one to me......be nice if that
was mentioned, at least in the FAQ page !!
What happens if the GPS cannot lock on to the satelites, your AutoPilot
becomes obsolete, non-functional or does the build-in solid state gyro's
keep the plane right side up and flying in about the correct way ??
does your "not just a wing leveler" become "just a wing leveler" ??
Don't get me wrong, I am (or was) planning on installing your autopilot,
I really like your system, but it having to rely on an outside source,
which might not always be available, seems very scary and will make me
rethink my strategy.
Does this also hold true for your new DigiTrack system, it does not
function correctly WITHOUT a GPS signal and to buy the DigiTrack system
I would also have to buy a GPS, either from you or somebody else which
would effectively raise the the prise as advertised from $1495 to 1495
plus 175 or about $1670.
Or, does the advertised OSH special price of $1495 include the garmin
to make a fully functional wingleveler, comparable to the NavAid, which
does not need anything auxiliary but does come with the GPS tracking
option as an add-on.
Gert
TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
>
> The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add on
> that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
> steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need a
> GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
> receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
> functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry LeGare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 Canopy Sealing |
I have been helping a friend with an 8 in early flight testing
everything is going great except for the usual minor squawks. We have
just started playing with canopy sealing. No sense reinventing the
wheel. So what have you done to stop the air intrusion from the rear and
cut down the noise.
Garry "Casper"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
An autopilot does not need gps to work,it' only for tracking.The NAV-AID
works same way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
>
> Hmmm, a quick look at your website does not reveal the need for a
> functional GPS for your AutoPilots to be functional. Am I wrong and
> missed it somehow ??
>
> What if all I have is a handheld GPS ??
>
> Is this an ommision ?? Sounds like a big one to me......be nice if that
> was mentioned, at least in the FAQ page !!
>
> What happens if the GPS cannot lock on to the satelites, your AutoPilot
> becomes obsolete, non-functional or does the build-in solid state gyro's
> keep the plane right side up and flying in about the correct way ??
> does your "not just a wing leveler" become "just a wing leveler" ??
>
> Don't get me wrong, I am (or was) planning on installing your autopilot,
> I really like your system, but it having to rely on an outside source,
> which might not always be available, seems very scary and will make me
> rethink my strategy.
>
> Does this also hold true for your new DigiTrack system, it does not
> function correctly WITHOUT a GPS signal and to buy the DigiTrack system
> I would also have to buy a GPS, either from you or somebody else which
> would effectively raise the the prise as advertised from $1495 to 1495
> plus 175 or about $1670.
>
> Or, does the advertised OSH special price of $1495 include the garmin
> to make a fully functional wingleveler, comparable to the NavAid, which
> does not need anything auxiliary but does come with the GPS tracking
> option as an add-on.
>
> Gert
>
> TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
>
> >
> > The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add on
> > that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
> > steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need a
> > GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
> > receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
> > functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Canopy Sealing |
>>
>I have been helping a friend with an 8 in early flight testing
>everything is going great except for the usual minor squawks. We have
>just started playing with canopy sealing. No sense reinventing the
>wheel. So what have you done to stop the air intrusion from the rear and
>cut down the noise.
>Garry "Casper"
Foam weatherstripping or adhesive backed felt strips around the inside
perimeter of the skirt works pretty well.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
293 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
gert
my navaid has a toggle switch that will either track on gps or vor signals.
if i lose satallite, flip the toggle and lock in on a vor signal. by the way,
i have mine hooked to the garmin 295 of which i've flown from tampa to
louisiana and back, not to mention all the local flying in florida, and i
always see at least 8 satillites. it uses the 3 strongest signals. not
finding a satillite these days would mean a bad gps antenia in my opinion.
just my 2.75 cents worth
scott
tampa
flying whooo hoooooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Ollie, the DigiTrak does indeed need GPS for functionality. The GPS is
what tells the DigiTrak where it is in relationship to the heading you
have punched into the unit. The DigiTrak does not fly a GPS ground track
in the same sense as the Navaid.
With the Navaid, you can punch "Go To" on your GPS (if it is slaved to
the Navaid) and it will follow the ground track to the waypoint.
With the DigiTrak, you punch in a heading (which may or may not be
precisely to your waypoint). The unit then uses GPS to maintain the
heading you have selected. You will need to buy a GPS such as the very
good Garmin GPS-35 if you plan to install the DigiTrak.
If GPS is lost, the unit uses an internal magnetometer that "sorta"
follows the heading (with decreased precision due to errors introduced
by roll and pitch), and you lose the DG display on the unit.
The Navaid and the Digitrak process info in very different ways. The
Navaid is admittedly "old tech" but is based on a mechanical gyro and
input from a GPS for tracking or heading info. The Digitrak depends on
GPS for functionality and tracks a heading, not a GPS route. It is also
based on new solid state sensors (magnetometer and gyro) similar (but
less $$$$) to what is found in the new EFIS type stuff.
As I stated before in regard to the Blue Mtn/Dynon/etc instruments, this
is new stuff, and has very little field history. Just keep that in mind
before biting off a big chew......
This is another a case where a great deal of homework needs to be
conducted before cutting holes in your panel. The electronically
challenged builder is possibly going to be bewildered by the new stuff
unless a lot of research if done.
Sam Buchanan
======================
Ollie Washburn wrote:
>
>
> An autopilot does not need gps to work,it' only for tracking.The NAV-AID
> works same way.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
>
> >
> > Hmmm, a quick look at your website does not reveal the need for a
> > functional GPS for your AutoPilots to be functional. Am I wrong and
> > missed it somehow ??
> >
> > What if all I have is a handheld GPS ??
> >
> > Is this an ommision ?? Sounds like a big one to me......be nice if that
> > was mentioned, at least in the FAQ page !!
> >
> > What happens if the GPS cannot lock on to the satelites, your AutoPilot
> > becomes obsolete, non-functional or does the build-in solid state gyro's
> > keep the plane right side up and flying in about the correct way ??
> > does your "not just a wing leveler" become "just a wing leveler" ??
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I am (or was) planning on installing your autopilot,
> > I really like your system, but it having to rely on an outside source,
> > which might not always be available, seems very scary and will make me
> > rethink my strategy.
> >
> > Does this also hold true for your new DigiTrack system, it does not
> > function correctly WITHOUT a GPS signal and to buy the DigiTrack system
> > I would also have to buy a GPS, either from you or somebody else which
> > would effectively raise the the prise as advertised from $1495 to 1495
> > plus 175 or about $1670.
> >
> > Or, does the advertised OSH special price of $1495 include the garmin
> > to make a fully functional wingleveler, comparable to the NavAid, which
> > does not need anything auxiliary but does come with the GPS tracking
> > option as an add-on.
> >
> > Gert
> >
> > TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add on
> > > that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
> > > steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need a
> > > GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
> > > receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
> > > functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Garman GPSMAP 196 - EFIS Wanabe - Nice Unit |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> I'm struggling with the
> airspeed deal though. True or indicated is not specified, but it's hard
> for me to see how this could work without additional sensors.
>
> Larry
Without air data, temp and pressure, the only speed a GPS could give is
Ground Speed.
But what do I know. :-)
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OSH planning |
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: RV-List: OSH planning
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:56:52 -0700
All,
Several of us will be making a two day flight to OSH this year from the
Portland, Oregon area. We're planning on overnighting in the Dakotas
somewhere, preferrably in the eastern part so make the trip the next day a
bit shorter. Two questions:
1. Can anyone recommend a good place to overnight in the central to eastern
part of North or South Dakota? Huron SD has been recommended, any feedback?
We'll be credit card camping (hotel).
2. Almost everyone seems to recommend stopping an hour or so out of OSH to
fuel and prep mentally for the big arrival. Some stops to the west of OSH
have been recommended (cheap fuel, nice people) but I can't find those
messages -- anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks very much,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 207 hrs, first time flying to the big one myself
Home Wing VAF
Randy:
1. Leaving this one for some one else. If you want to see Mt Rushmore, I
have stopped at Mondell Field, New Castle WY.
2. The last 3 times to OSH, I stopped at Boscobel WI. (OVS) Great people.
Had the airplane hangared over night there twice and always had a car.
Did not spend the night one time so did not need the hangar. Found out
about this airport from a friend with a Europa.
See you at AirVenture 2002.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,124.8+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
Thanks for the info and i stand corrected.I now also agree with Gert that
trutrack should so state in their wed site.btw i have a nav-aid and it works
good,not great, but very good.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
>
> Ollie, the DigiTrak does indeed need GPS for functionality. The GPS is
> what tells the DigiTrak where it is in relationship to the heading you
> have punched into the unit. The DigiTrak does not fly a GPS ground track
> in the same sense as the Navaid.
>
> With the Navaid, you can punch "Go To" on your GPS (if it is slaved to
> the Navaid) and it will follow the ground track to the waypoint.
>
> With the DigiTrak, you punch in a heading (which may or may not be
> precisely to your waypoint). The unit then uses GPS to maintain the
> heading you have selected. You will need to buy a GPS such as the very
> good Garmin GPS-35 if you plan to install the DigiTrak.
>
> If GPS is lost, the unit uses an internal magnetometer that "sorta"
> follows the heading (with decreased precision due to errors introduced
> by roll and pitch), and you lose the DG display on the unit.
>
> The Navaid and the Digitrak process info in very different ways. The
> Navaid is admittedly "old tech" but is based on a mechanical gyro and
> input from a GPS for tracking or heading info. The Digitrak depends on
> GPS for functionality and tracks a heading, not a GPS route. It is also
> based on new solid state sensors (magnetometer and gyro) similar (but
> less $$$$) to what is found in the new EFIS type stuff.
>
> As I stated before in regard to the Blue Mtn/Dynon/etc instruments, this
> is new stuff, and has very little field history. Just keep that in mind
> before biting off a big chew......
>
> This is another a case where a great deal of homework needs to be
> conducted before cutting holes in your panel. The electronically
> challenged builder is possibly going to be bewildered by the new stuff
> unless a lot of research if done.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
> ======================
>
> Ollie Washburn wrote:
> >
> >
> > An autopilot does not need gps to work,it' only for tracking.The NAV-AID
> > works same way.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
> >
> > >
> > > Hmmm, a quick look at your website does not reveal the need for a
> > > functional GPS for your AutoPilots to be functional. Am I wrong and
> > > missed it somehow ??
> > >
> > > What if all I have is a handheld GPS ??
> > >
> > > Is this an ommision ?? Sounds like a big one to me......be nice if
that
> > > was mentioned, at least in the FAQ page !!
> > >
> > > What happens if the GPS cannot lock on to the satelites, your
AutoPilot
> > > becomes obsolete, non-functional or does the build-in solid state
gyro's
> > > keep the plane right side up and flying in about the correct way ??
> > > does your "not just a wing leveler" become "just a wing leveler" ??
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong, I am (or was) planning on installing your
autopilot,
> > > I really like your system, but it having to rely on an outside source,
> > > which might not always be available, seems very scary and will make me
> > > rethink my strategy.
> > >
> > > Does this also hold true for your new DigiTrack system, it does not
> > > function correctly WITHOUT a GPS signal and to buy the DigiTrack
system
> > > I would also have to buy a GPS, either from you or somebody else which
> > > would effectively raise the the prise as advertised from $1495 to 1495
> > > plus 175 or about $1670.
> > >
> > > Or, does the advertised OSH special price of $1495 include the garmin
> > > to make a fully functional wingleveler, comparable to the NavAid,
which
> > > does not need anything auxiliary but does come with the GPS tracking
> > > option as an add-on.
> > >
> > > Gert
> > >
> > > TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add
on
> > > > that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
> > > > steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do
need a
> > > > GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
> > > > receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
> > > > functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OSH planning |
Randy - We stayed in Grand Rapids at a historic hotel downtown(FDR stayed
there when dedicating Mt Rushmore). It was quite reasonable price. The
local firehouse brew pub was excellent. What else could one want? See
Homewing article :-) Kevin
I have also spent 3 days in Hettinger ND, nice courtesy truck, cheap
motels and food. Ground fog their specialty!
________________________________________________________________________________
Carl, Yes I am going to Oshkosh, Howerver I am not in New Jersey. However
if you need me to go to New Jersey, Whats your rate.
I couldn't resist.
Wayne Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: New Garman GPSMAP 196 - EFIS Wanabe - Nice Unit |
The HSI feature in the Pilot III Garmin I use does track very well even
though it is track made good over the ground (GPS derived track data not
gyro based data) For 95% of the flying the DG and Garmin HSI matched up.
I like the 5 other instruments on the 196 Garman (single page) too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Sices" <msices(at)core.com> |
As I understand it, the Trutrak as well as Navaid systems are functional and
currently flying without problem in a number of aircraft including RV's. Of
course one should know what one is buying (at least a little understanding
of the technology) and be willing to accept its limitations (STEC, Navaid,
Century all have different problems). The only question then is ... does
the thing really work (and how well) in real world flight conditions.
Unlike most EFIS systems, if Trutrak goes out or becomes less stable because
of loss of GPS or some other failure, the loss is not an emergency. Just
fly the airplane yourself. If the autopilot is that important to safe
flight for you, you might plan an IFR GPS in your panel (you can now get
KLN89 and 90s on Ebay for a little over $1000). In this instance, the GPS
will, at least, alert you to loss of signal. You are then free to turn the
GPS and/or autopilot off and use other navigation ... VOR/ILS. Its not as
thought the Trutrak will go berserk. You will still have a wing leveler and
alt hold if so equipped.
Mike Sices
RV8 Kenosha, WI
Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
Ollie, the DigiTrak does indeed need GPS for functionality. The GPS is
what tells the DigiTrak where it is in relationship to the heading you
have punched into the unit. The DigiTrak does not fly a GPS ground track
in the same sense as the Navaid.
With the Navaid, you can punch "Go To" on your GPS (if it is slaved to
the Navaid) and it will follow the ground track to the waypoint.
With the DigiTrak, you punch in a heading (which may or may not be
precisely to your waypoint). The unit then uses GPS to maintain the
heading you have selected. You will need to buy a GPS such as the very
good Garmin GPS-35 if you plan to install the DigiTrak.
If GPS is lost, the unit uses an internal magnetometer that "sorta"
follows the heading (with decreased precision due to errors introduced
by roll and pitch), and you lose the DG display on the unit.
The Navaid and the Digitrak process info in very different ways. The
Navaid is admittedly "old tech" but is based on a mechanical gyro and
input from a GPS for tracking or heading info. The Digitrak depends on
GPS for functionality and tracks a heading, not a GPS route. It is also
based on new solid state sensors (magnetometer and gyro) similar (but
less $$$$) to what is found in the new EFIS type stuff.
As I stated before in regard to the Blue Mtn/Dynon/etc instruments, this
is new stuff, and has very little field history. Just keep that in mind
before biting off a big chew......
This is another a case where a great deal of homework needs to be
conducted before cutting holes in your panel. The electronically
challenged builder is possibly going to be bewildered by the new stuff
unless a lot of research if done.
Sam Buchanan
======================
Ollie Washburn wrote:
>
>
> An autopilot does not need gps to work,it' only for tracking.The NAV-AID
> works same way.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak
>
> >
> > Hmmm, a quick look at your website does not reveal the need for a
> > functional GPS for your AutoPilots to be functional. Am I wrong and
> > missed it somehow ??
> >
> > What if all I have is a handheld GPS ??
> >
> > Is this an ommision ?? Sounds like a big one to me......be nice if that
> > was mentioned, at least in the FAQ page !!
> >
> > What happens if the GPS cannot lock on to the satelites, your AutoPilot
> > becomes obsolete, non-functional or does the build-in solid state gyro's
> > keep the plane right side up and flying in about the correct way ??
> > does your "not just a wing leveler" become "just a wing leveler" ??
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I am (or was) planning on installing your autopilot,
> > I really like your system, but it having to rely on an outside source,
> > which might not always be available, seems very scary and will make me
> > rethink my strategy.
> >
> > Does this also hold true for your new DigiTrack system, it does not
> > function correctly WITHOUT a GPS signal and to buy the DigiTrack system
> > I would also have to buy a GPS, either from you or somebody else which
> > would effectively raise the the prise as advertised from $1495 to 1495
> > plus 175 or about $1670.
> >
> > Or, does the advertised OSH special price of $1495 include the garmin
> > to make a fully functional wingleveler, comparable to the NavAid, which
> > does not need anything auxiliary but does come with the GPS tracking
> > option as an add-on.
> >
> > Gert
> >
> > TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add
on
> > > that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
> > > steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need
a
> > > GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
> > > receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
> > > functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Update on BMA EFIS/Lite |
Gert,
Here is my understanding of the Digitrack Autopilot. It does not have an
option for GPS steering where you can program your GPS for multiple legs
of a flight and the autopilot would use that information for automatic
"steering". It only uses the GPS connection to derive the true course
and display it on the front on the autopilot. In fact, if you do not
have a gps connected to the Digitrack Autopilot, it will not display any
heading information - it will instead show just "---". It will however
maintain the desired track the plane was following when you engaged the
autopilot. This is one BIG reason why you could not use this instrument
as a DG replacement.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI USA
RV-8AQB - Finish Kit / Canopy
TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
-----Original Message-----
From: gert [mailto:gert(at)execpc.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
I am confused now, I have to pay about 375 dollars extra to get a GPS
steering connection for the TruTrack Systems.
> The Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro is an internal solid
> state gyro that is slaved to GPS track. This means that the internal
> gyro takes the GPS track, that is only updated once a second, and
> makes it gyroscopically smooth, so that it can be displayed as the
correct track.
Does this mean the TruTrack has a GPS build in ??
at this point I do not have a GPS, does that mean I would not have a
Digital Slaved Directional Gyro either or would it not be as accurate,
having "digital drift syndrome" ??
Gert
The display does
> not replace a DG, but when the unit is in use, it can be used as the
> means of selecting track. The reason that we say that it is not a
> replacement for a DG is that it relies partially on GPS, we therefore
> do not recommend that it be used as a primary DG. The DG being
> digital is also not as easily interpreted by some, even though the
> information flow is just as smooth.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>
>
>
>>
>>I'm curious. How does the Built-in Digital Slaved Directional Gyro
>>work? What's it slaved to? Is the display a viable substitute for a
>>DG?
>>
>>Tanks,
>>
>>Ed Holyoke
>>
>>
>>
>>The TruTrak system does not use an AHRS. We use instantaneous data at
>>all times, thus we can not become disoriented. We at TruTrak are very
>>familiar
>>with AHRS technology, and it is in fact very different from what we
do.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>>To: ; "Greg Richter"
>>
>>Subject: RV-List: Update on BMA EFIS/Lite
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>For the past six weeks I have been flight testing a Blue Mountain
>>>Avionics EFIS/Lite in my RV-6. I first saw the BMA EFIS/One and Greg
>>>Richter at OSH 2001 and was very impressed with the capabilities and
>>>potential of a gyroless IFR panel. The announcement of the EFIS/Lite
>>>coincided with my decision to upgrade the panel in 399SB so I could
>>>regain IFR currency.
>>>
>>>I paid a deposit for the Lite in early January expecting delivery in
>>>
>>6-8
>>
>>>weeks, but it was not until the first of June that I actually got my
>>>hands on a unit. The purpose of this post is not to expound on the
>>>various delays in receiving the product; I fully expected some delays
>>>
>>to
>>
>>>occur as the Lite was brought to market, especially considering no
>>>similar product had been introduced to the experimental aviation
>>>community.
>>>
>>>I have now flown three individual Lites in an effort to achieve
>>>satisfactory and expected performance from the instrument.
>>>Unfortunately, none of the units had all features working at the same
>>>time. Greg Richter, guru in chief at BMA, has been very receptive of
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>multitude of observations and suggestions I made about the unit and
>>>incorporated many changes to the software code based on my flight
>>>testing. The display is much more user friendly now than it was six
>>>weeks ago. Admittedly I received the first unit early in the
>>>
>>production
>>
>>>cycle, but Lites and EFIS/Ones are presently being shipped to
>>>
>>customers.
>>
>>>However, the most serious problem is with the AHRS platform. This is
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>solid state "gyro" system that forms the basis for the entire box.
>>>(By the way, it is my understanding the AHRS in the Lite is identical
>>>to that in the EFIS/One.) The benchmark I initially used to test the
>>>AHRS was to see if the system could remain stable in a 360 degree
>>>standard rate turn. This is an essential function since the standard
>>>rate turn
>>>
>>is
>>
>>>the maneuver upon which all IFR flight is based. Unfortunately, the
>>>
>>AHRS
>>
>>>"cutout" after about 280 degrees of turn with a resulting drift into
>>>erroneous bank and pitch displays, and this problem was repeatable
>>>and predictable. What was especially troubling was that the error
>>>occurred with no warning flag. Attempts by Greg to tweak the software
>>>were unsuccessful and this problem among other AHRS and pitot errors
>>>was present in all three boxes I flew.
>>>
>>>I have returned all the units to Blue Mountain Avionics. I still feel
>>>very strongly that AHRS is the way of the future and I intend to have
>>>the technology in my plane; I would very much like it be from BMA.
>>>
>>Greg
>>
>>>Richter and I have a very pleasant relationship and hopefully I will
>>>
>>be
>>
>>>able to fly a fully functional EFIS/Lite in the not-too-distant
>>>
>>future.
>>
>>>Greg emailed me today stating that he thinks he has a grip on the
>>>problems, so I suppose time will tell. However, "flying" the unit on
>>>a bench cannot substitute for hundreds of hours in an aircraft in
>>>actual flight.
>>>
>>>The purpose of this post is to update those of you who are
>>>considering the purchase of BMA or other AHRS technology. Please keep
>>>in mind this is very new stuff and no doubt debugging time needs to
>>>be a part of
>>>
>>your
>>
>>>plans if you decide to install this or similar equipment. Please keep
>>>
>>in
>>
>>>mind that AHRS is the backbone of BMA's autopilot and terrain mapping
>>>equipment. I am also going to be very interested in actual flight
>>>experience of builders who are incorporating the new TruTrak auto
>>>
>>pilot
>>
>>>systems since it is my understanding they also use AHRS.
>>>
>>>The most serious concern I have is for flight into IMC with new AHRS
>>>boxes. As all IFR-rated pilots know, IFR flight is a very serious
>>>undertaking. Personally, I am going to need to see the AHRS systems
>>>
>>rack
>>
>>>up a bunch of time before I point 399SB into the clouds with little
>>>
>>but
>>
>>>AHRS keeping me safe. I will have some limited backups on board, but
>>>
>>the
>>
>>>builders who are considering the EFIS/One with only the Lite for
>>>
>>backup
>>
>>>(or similar systems from other manufacturers) are putting ALL their
>>>
>>IFR
>>
>>>eggs in one AHRS basket!
>>>
>>>I will keep the RV community informed as to future developments of
>>>
>>this
>>
>>>matter and I eagerly await the impressions of other builder/pilots
>>>who develop a knowledge base of this new technology.
>>>
>>>Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
>>>"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Canopy Sealing |
An earlier posting talked about the following (this is a "cut and paste"):
JC Whitney Part # 81KS0162P 10ft stick-on Weatherstrip which looks
professional (Half-Moon Shape) and is just right when compressed by the
canopy. My Canopy also had about 3\16 in. gap and for $15.99 can't be beat
to help seal out drafts and water.
This posting was for an RV6 or 6A . . . I purchased some of this and it
looks like it will work on my 8A. I haven't installed it yet, nor have I
flown yet . . . but the stuff sure looks nice.
Rick Jory
----- Original Message -----
From: Garry LeGare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV8 Canopy Sealing
>
> I have been helping a friend with an 8 in early flight testing
> everything is going great except for the usual minor squawks. We have
> just started playing with canopy sealing. No sense reinventing the
> wheel. So what have you done to stop the air intrusion from the rear and
> cut down the noise.
> Garry "Casper"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stank-1(at)webtv.net (frank stankiewicz) |
N25BF will be at OSH, and is for sale. First flight 1999, now has
375 hours, Lyc. 0360 (180) has 680 hours SMOH. Slider, dual steps
Sesenich 85" pitc prop, full gyro panell, strobes, full pro. interior,
pro paint (white with red and blue trim, electric flaps, latest style
wheel pants, one 760 com. two GPS's ( one with moving map) transponder &
encoder, nav aid autopilot, While not a SHOW WINNER, a verry nice
RV6A, For more details, call me at home evenings (941 482 8530), or at
Email above. Allways hangared (Ft Myers FL )
$ 65.000. Frank do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
What kind of interface does the TruTrak need from GPS for GPS steering?
Does the Bendix-King KMD-150 provide this GPS steering? What kind of
interface does the TruTrak need from GPS for basic tracking? Does this
also mean that the TruTrak is incapable of following cdi left/right
signals?
Thanks.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TruTrak Flight
Systems
Subject: RV-List: TruTrak
The TruTrak does not have a built in GPS, the GPS steering is an add on
that gives the user the ability to couple to a GPS that provides GPS
steering, for example the Garmin 430 or the Apollo GX 60. You do need a
GPS for the system, we do sell a Garmin 35, which is an antenna, and
receiver in one package for $175.00. This would get you all of the
functionality needed for the Autopilot to function.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Canopy Sealing |
A quick and simple fix is to by a roll of 1" Velcro, then attach the felt
side of the Velcro along the bottom inside of the canopy fiberglass skirt.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (FLYING!!!)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry LeGare
Subject: RV-List: RV8 Canopy Sealing
I have been helping a friend with an 8 in early flight testing
everything is going great except for the usual minor squawks. We have
just started playing with canopy sealing. No sense reinventing the
wheel. So what have you done to stop the air intrusion from the rear and
cut down the noise.
Garry "Casper"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Just thought I'd let everyone who is flying to OSH via the Dakotas, that if
you want a free place to sleep in the Black Hills (Sturgis) my father has a
private strip on his ranch and a house with lots of empty bedrooms. His
strip is about 3 minutes from Sturgis proper by air, and only a few more
minuts (in an RV) from Mt.Rushmore & Devil's tower. If you're interested in
a place to stay that is free, everyone is welcome. He has 4 empty bedrooms,
one hangar, and thousands of acres of tie down room.
Drop me a line with any questions, and I'll give you more details!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minneapolis...Finishing wingtip wiring and getting ready for paint!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Subject: Re: RV-List: OSH planning
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: RV-List: OSH planning
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:56:52 -0700
All,
Several of us will be making a two day flight to OSH this year from the
Portland, Oregon area. We're planning on overnighting in the Dakotas
somewhere, preferrably in the eastern part so make the trip the next day a
bit shorter. Two questions:
1. Can anyone recommend a good place to overnight in the central to eastern
part of North or South Dakota? Huron SD has been recommended, any feedback?
We'll be credit card camping (hotel).
2. Almost everyone seems to recommend stopping an hour or so out of OSH to
fuel and prep mentally for the big arrival. Some stops to the west of OSH
have been recommended (cheap fuel, nice people) but I can't find those
messages -- anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks very much,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 207 hrs, first time flying to the big one myself
Home Wing VAF
Randy:
1. Leaving this one for some one else. If you want to see Mt Rushmore, I
have stopped at Mondell Field, New Castle WY.
2. The last 3 times to OSH, I stopped at Boscobel WI. (OVS) Great people.
Had the airplane hangared over night there twice and always had a car.
Did not spend the night one time so did not need the hangar. Found out
about this airport from a friend with a Europa.
See you at AirVenture 2002.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,124.8+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Ooops, I believe you mean Rapid City, and if you're going to stay
there...drop me a line. Much better / cheaper accomodations for free on
thousands of acres.
July 09, 2002 - July 17, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-nc