RV-Archive.digest.vol-ni
August 21, 2002 - August 27, 2002
first time
and
trying to get the speed down on final, probably eventually
stalling. It
was
one of the Chinese indicators from Van's and a very understanding
Amber
at
their order desk had a new one on the way the very day-no charge.
I viewed it as just another obstacle that stood between me and
flying
this
thing. In hindsight, if I'd shared my experience here as so many
have
done
for the benefit of us all, perhaps Scott and John would still be
with
us..
Scott in Vancouver
Rv-6, 160/wood prop
3 hours TTAFandE>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another Flap Question |
Pat;
The advice from Hal is correct. The FL 406 a & b as well as the spar and rib
get riveted by the same rivets. Only FL 406 a has the two-way angles.
If you don't have a new set of plans,you should get them from Van's. There
are many revisions and some hardware call-outs are changed. Keep your
original plans , you'll need the Dwg. 17 to put the back baffle in the fuel
tanks. Maybe other places too.
Bob n' Lu Olds RV-4 , N1191X - flight testing.
Charleston,Arkansas
oldsfolks(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vendors are Invited |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Thats the main reason I insured with VAn Guard. I enjoyed JT Helm's
writings.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
writes:
>
> Hi Gang, again.
>
I then suggested that he and Trutrak Flight Systems should subscribe
> to the RV list and provide us with the professional information we are
> always looking for.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
David Carter wrote:
>
> After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this "simplify it"
> thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is not a cylinder, but a narrow
> block (rectangular shape viewed from the front) with two holes drilled in
> it - one "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to the
> existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd hole being drilled
> about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack) below the 1st - so when I'm near
> stall in level flight (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches over
> the runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now pointing into the
> relative wind, and should give me an acccurate airspeed indication, i.e.,
> near zero difference between IAS and CAS.
You have come very close to describing the probe delivered with the LRI
system. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, LRI equipped)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Caution on Standarization of airspeeds Was Re: Cause of Tampa |
Cr...
> > might indeed find that I did not get the same
> > response to the same stick force input - kaPlung {:>) - slacking of
"Flare
> > Authority"!.
> >
> > Boy, it is nice to have so many considered inputs address an issue!
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > Ed A
> >
>
> Ed, I should have considered this more before I shot off my mouth about
how
> IAS remains the same and that adjusts for everything else in the flair; it
> doesn't.
>
> We cannot fly just anywhere in the atmosphere, oblivious to the effects of
> density altitude, with the philosophy that as long as the IAS is the same,
> the wing will never know the difference. The engine will certainly feel
the
> difference, and it will make itself known in other ways, as in extended
> takeoff and landing distances at Leadville, and the convergence of Vx and
Vy
> into the very same airspeed when one hits the aircraft service ceiling in
> that corner of the performance envelope. I should have known better.
>
> -Bill
>
Hey, Bill
I appreciate you raising the topic. I am as guilty as the next party
about "as long as the IAS is the same...". I found the discussion and
inputs on the topic helped me better understand what my aircraft was doing
and why it was doing it. Always appreciate the person who helps improve my
knowledge/ignornace ratio, so thanks for stimulating the discussion.
Best Regards
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
I think the angle has minimal effect on the errors. Most are caused by
the location of the pitot and static ports and the pressure distribution
changes due to angle of attack. The preferred location would minimize
those changes and is researched at length for production aircraft. The
simple approach is to put them on a boom way in front of the wing in
free air, just like flight test aircraft. Simple, but ugly and draggy.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> I've been reading the commentary in two threads, both related
> to how we fly final, which is partly a factor of our stall
> speed and partly a factor about how we perceive handling in
> the pattern.
>
> I'd like to throw out an idea that focuses on the stall speed
> issue: I've always disliked the large errors between IAS and
> CAS in the Cessnas and some other airplanes I've flown. As I
> believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the primary
> cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight
> into the pitot tube at high AOA), I've been considering some
> "pivoting" pitot tube, one which would stay aligned into the
> relative wind.
>
> After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this
> "simplify it" thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is
> not a cylinder, but a narrow block (rectangular shape viewed
> from the front) with two holes drilled in it - one
> "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to
> the existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd
> hole being drilled about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack)
> below the 1st - so when I'm near stall in level flight
> (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches over the
> runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now
> pointing into the relative wind, and should give me an
> acccurate airspeed indication, i.e., near zero difference
> between IAS and CAS.
>
> Those two holes would join up just aft of their respective
> front openings and the dynamic pressure be carried to the
> airspeed indicator by a typical single hose configuration.
>
> I suspect that the "average pressure" of the two holes would
> provide accurate dynamic pressure (airspeed indication) at
> all angles of attack between cruise and stall.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> David Carter
> RV-6 QB (roll bar)
> Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Jim,
Thank you for taking your time and the risks in posting all these details.
Certainly my prayers are with you all. I don't have much to add that hasn't
already been said. I am somewhat aghast at the callous attitude towards what
I would consider items of absolute unairworthiness.
You can lead a horse to water, and you can drown it in the water, but the
real trick seems to be to get it to like water.
As I remember Mike Seger's air speeds were 85mph/70kts from downwind/base
turn to initial level off prior to rotation. I've been using that for the
last 270 hours and it seems to work very well in my 6. RPM is 1200 fixed
pitch Sensenich, for a slightly higher than normal descent rate. If I am
doing a wheel landing I'll keep the power up just slightly higher/longer,
otherwise I rotate to level at runway plus 1', power off, bring the tail
down to touch down attitude gradually without an increase in altitude, and
then settle it (most times) onto the runway. If I level off about 100 ft
short of the touch down point, I ususally land prtty close to it. This means
I'm probably carrying a little extra energy but that's what I learned to do
from Mike.
And this plane flies exactly as described in "Stick & Rudder". Nose up
brings the touch down point closer to you, nose down and it moves away, to a
point. Also, if it is correctly trimed to 70 kts, or whatever, than the
throttle becomes my varible vertical descent rate adjustment knob.
I highly recommend "Stick and Rudder" for any body flying an RV or an RV/A,
although I don't remember the author's name???
Take off is 40 kts tail up, 60 kts is rotate, unless at Big Bear in summer
taking off uphill, in which case I wait 'till 70 kts and stay in ground
effect until 100 kts. Most runways allow for this and you still have room to
land if there is a problem prior to 100 kts. Once the energy is high I climb
initially at 100 kts then bring it up to 140 kts for cooling after 1000'
agl. Although there may be slightly more effecient numbers, my philosophy is
KISS. Takeoffs 2100 RPM static - brake off - 40-60-100-140, landings
70-level-rotate-touchdown, cruise climb/descent 140
Again, thank you for keeping us all posted
Wheeler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety and operating costs (lean running Lyc) |
Yep, it's true. The reason for the big difference is that you can't lean at
full power. 100% (160hp) power is achieved at sea level with a full rich
mixture. Obviously, not all test facilities are at sea level, but full
power runs always use a full rich mixture, unless some bizarre density
altitude numbers indicate otherwise - but then you wouldn't be getting 100%
power either. So to compare it with your numbers you would have to go full
rich at 75% and your burn would be in the neighborhood of 11gph, or about
75% or the full flow reading.
Don't worry, the only way you'd see 15gph on a long X/C is if you were
flying over the ocean at 1' msl with full power.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> > Running on the test stand the full throttle fuel flow for a 160 HP 0320
is
> > between 14.5 -15 gals per hour
>
> Almost twice what my 160 hp burns at 75% cruise and leaned aggressively...
> (8.5 gph) Must be one advantage of a Sensenich prop that's redlined at
2600
> rpm (the only advantage, in fact).
>
> 15 gph would definitely be an unpleasant surprise on a long X/C. You sure
> about those numbers? What % hp is the engine making, and how does the
> brake-specific hp at full throttle and 15 gph compare to cruise power
values
> for the engine?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
The Author's name is Wolfgang Langewiesche the title of the book is Stick
and Rudder. The publisher is McGraw-Hill, Inc. ISBN 0-07-036240-8
A very good read!!
from Wheeler North's email.
>You can lead a horse to water, and you can drown it in the water, but the
> real trick seems to be to get it to like water.
>
>
> And this plane flies exactly as described in "Stick & Rudder". Nose up
> brings the touch down point closer to you, nose down and it moves away, to
a
> point. Also, if it is correctly trimed to 70 kts, or whatever, than the
> throttle becomes my varible vertical descent rate adjustment knob.
>
> I highly recommend "Stick and Rudder" for any body flying an RV or an
RV/A,
> although I don't remember the author's name???
Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
>
>I've been reading the commentary in two threads, both related to how we fly
>final, which is partly a factor of our stall speed and partly a factor about
>how we perceive handling in the pattern.
>
>I'd like to throw out an idea that focuses on the stall speed issue: I've
>always disliked the large errors between IAS and CAS in the Cessnas and some
>other airplanes I've flown. As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot
>tube is the primary cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed
>straight into the pitot tube at high AOA), I've been considering some
>"pivoting" pitot tube, one which would stay aligned into the relative wind.
>
>After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this "simplify it"
>thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is not a cylinder, but a narrow
>block (rectangular shape viewed from the front) with two holes drilled in
>it - one "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to the
>existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd hole being drilled
>about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack) below the 1st - so when I'm near
>stall in level flight (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches over
>the runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now pointing into the
>relative wind, and should give me an acccurate airspeed indication, i.e.,
>near zero difference between IAS and CAS.
>
>Those two holes would join up just aft of their respective front openings
>and the dynamic pressure be carried to the airspeed indicator by a typical
>single hose configuration.
>
>I suspect that the "average pressure" of the two holes would provide
>accurate dynamic pressure (airspeed indication) at all angles of attack
>between cruise and stall.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>David Carter
>RV-6 QB (roll bar)
>Nederland, Texas
David,
Interesting idea.
All the standard texts will tell you that in most cases, the vast
majority of the error at low speed is actually due to static system
position error. Generally speaking, the pitot pressure will be quite
accurate, as long as the airflow at the pitot tube is within 15
degrees of being aligned with the axis of the pitot tube. The data I
have seen from flight test programs seems to indicate that all of the
above is true.
Ideally, the static port would be located where the local pressure
was equal to the ambient pressure, i.e. the pressure that was present
before the aircraft came along and disturbed everything. The air has
to accelerate and decelerate as it flows around the aircraft, and
Bernoulli's Law tells us that the pressure will change as the air
accelerates and decelerates. At any given flight condition, it is
possible to find a number of locations to put the static port so the
pressure equals the ambient pressure. However, the range of correct
locations for the static port is different at different flight
conditions. So, the designer has to chose a compromise static port
location that minimizes the errors in the airspeed range he cares
about.
As you approach the stall, the angle of attack increases
significantly, and there are big changes in the way the airflow moves
around the aircraft. This causes big changes in the pressure at the
static port, which leads to big errors in the indicated airspeed. I
have never been able to puzzle out why, but normally the static
system errors are in the sense to give you indicated airspeeds that
are too low at the stall. I have only run into one case where this
was not true - I flew one prototype aircraft that had a very screwed
up static port location. On this aircraft, as you approached the
stall, the indicated airspeed would be decreasing like you would
expect. Then it would stop decreasing, and start increasing again,
even though the aircraft was still decelerating. Needless to say
this was fixed before the flight test program got very far along.
So, I'm not sure your proposed pitot design is needed. It would
require a good flight test program to sort out whether it was telling
you good information at all flight conditions. The pressure at the
two pitot ports would normally differ, so you would have coming in
one port, and out the other one. The only way to sort out what it
was telling you would be to do a flight test program.
I'm sure someone is going to ask how the pitot tube can work properly
if the air is accelerating and decelerating as it flows around the
aircraft. Wouldn't the speed of the air at the pitot tube be wrong?
The answer is that Bernoulli's Law tells us that if you accelerate
the air and then decelerate it back to the original speed the
pressure will be the same as it was originally. The air entering the
pitot tube has to stop (relative to the aircraft) to zero speed, and
the pressure increases to give the pitot pressure. It doesn't matter
what accelerating or decelerating the air may have done before it got
to the pitot tube, it'll end up at the same pressure once it stops in
the pitot tube.
This has the smell of an interesting thread. I'm heading into the
garage to hopefully mount my prop. I won't respond again until later
on this evening.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fibreglas, yuck)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>Who of you has done this type of testing in your RV, how did it feel to
you
>and do you still practice these exercises? Or am I old school?
Dave and List:
Well, I guess I was taught the old way, too. We did slow flight
constantly. Course, what else could you do in a Cub? But we also really
slowed the old girl down and cranked it around to see when she would
"let lose". Much of our flying was out of short soft fields, usually
wheat stubble fields. (I think that's Ernie over there running that
combine. Lets land in that field next to him and see. I gotta talk to
him about an engine.)
We also DID spins. (This is how you get in trouble; this is how you get
yourself out). That way you knew what it looked like with Ma Earth in
full view out the windshield and turning around.
A big part of my RV flight testing was slow flight, stalls of every
variety, falling leaf maneuver (what?), and spins. I still go up and do
them, as well as slow flight in all configurations of flaps, to see when
she will "let go". I am trying to learn my airplane as well as I can and
as much as she will let me. We are getting to know each other quite
well.
But I also learned to fly 30 years ago. Not that that should have
anything to do with it. Everyone ought to be taught the way I was. I may
have had the best instructor that ever taught. Flies oil pipelines for a
living. Has 40,000+ hours in Cubs, mostly at low level. Knows stuff not
many would know and is willing to teach you. He has saved my butt
countless times, just by the way he taught me. And I am pretty adamant
about maintaining and improving my skills. As is said, the private
ticket is a license to learn. I hope I am doing my instructor and my
airplane justice.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
There's a power line at the end of the field, there. If you get there
and can't make it over it, just go ahead and fly under it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>The Author's name is Wolfgang Langewiesche the title of the book is
Stick
>and Rudder. The publisher is McGraw-Hill, Inc. ISBN 0-07-036240-8
>A very good read!!
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THERE ARE PILOTS THAT HAVEN'T READ THIS BOOK??????
Gad. I suppose they haven't read the Spirit of St. Louis either. What's
this world coming to.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/21/02 5:40:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikel(at)dimensional.com writes:
<< We also DID spins. (This is how you get in trouble; this is how you get
yourself out). That way you knew what it looked like with Ma Earth in
full view out the windshield and turning around.
A big part of my RV flight testing was slow flight, stalls of every
variety, falling leaf maneuver (what?), and spins. I still go up and do
them, as well as slow flight in all configurations of flaps, to see when
she will "let go". I am trying to learn my airplane as well as I can and
as much as she will let me. We are getting to know each other quite
well. >>
An excellent description of the kind of flying you need to do to be truly
proficient in your airplane. I'd add accelerated stalls in "reasonable"
attitudes to the list, plus all varieties of takeoffs and landings (soft &
short field, spot landings, crosswinds, power off, etc). I try and practice
all of these on a monthly basis, but don't always get all the way through the
list. One additional thing is to practice these maneuvers at varying weights
and CG's. The airplane will behave differently at 1600+ pounds than 1300.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)iajobs.com> |
Kyle, Mike
Nice posts. I too learned years ago. I can still remember the cables
rattling in my Cessna 140 as we did spins. I truly believe I had the best
instructor ever. A bajillion hours in Cubs to the heavy iron. He was an
Examiner as well. He used to just let me get in enough trouble to learn. I
remember the time we were lined up ready to takeoff. "Well
Jack...everything ready to go?" I replied yes and added power....All hell
broke loose, I thought the 140 was going to self destruct...we aborted....my
seat belt was hanging out my door. He was the best. He is dead now, died
in a stall spin accident in a Citation. I miss him. Never say it can never
happen to me.
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
DSM
>Who of you has done this type of testing in your RV, how did it feel to
you
>and do you still practice these exercises? Or am I old school?
Dave and List:
Well, I guess I was taught the old way, too. We did slow flight
constantly. Course, what else could you do in a Cub? But we also really
slowed the old girl down and cranked it around to see when she would
"let lose". Much of our flying was out of short soft fields, usually
wheat stubble fields. (I think that's Ernie over there running that
combine. Lets land in that field next to him and see. I gotta talk to
him about an engine.)
We also DID spins. (This is how you get in trouble; this is how you get
yourself out). That way you knew what it looked like with Ma Earth in
full view out the windshield and turning around.
A big part of my RV flight testing was slow flight, stalls of every
variety, falling leaf maneuver (what?), and spins. I still go up and do
them, as well as slow flight in all configurations of flaps, to see when
she will "let go". I am trying to learn my airplane as well as I can and
as much as she will let me. We are getting to know each other quite
well.
But I also learned to fly 30 years ago. Not that that should have
anything to do with it. Everyone ought to be taught the way I was. I may
have had the best instructor that ever taught. Flies oil pipelines for a
living. Has 40,000+ hours in Cubs, mostly at low level. Knows stuff not
many would know and is willing to teach you. He has saved my butt
countless times, just by the way he taught me. And I am pretty adamant
about maintaining and improving my skills. As is said, the private
ticket is a license to learn. I hope I am doing my instructor and my
airplane justice.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
There's a power line at the end of the field, there. If you get there
and can't make it over it, just go ahead and fly under it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Food for thought |
All,
I hope you willtake a few minutes to read this and consider. Like many of you I
was sadden by another RV loss. Jim provided much info, which lead to many interesting
posts. A great number of you, with substantially greater experience than
Dave and myself (200 hrs and no previous aircraft building experience) had
valid comments.
I'd like to give yousome thoughts for your consideration.
First, we all strive for the best/perfectly constructed RV. However, we seem to
have a more difficulty spending the time/dollarsevaluating ourselves. Everyone
is capable of building and flying a safe aircraft. The key is attitude, a student
mentality and tenacity to strive for perfection. You will notice that "strive
for perfection" is the third item not the first. This only means that the
other items have a higher priority for me.
We all know that most of us do not fly enough during the building process and many
of us are not 1000 hour pilots. In many ways this can work to our advantage.
We only need to account for thesefactors and provide the appropriate compensation.
In our case, we made choices (usually budgetary) to offset our inexperience. We
bought a pneumatic rivet squeezer to improve the quality of our riveting. We
passed on the DG (decided to use the HSI screen on our GPS) and installed Jim
Frantz's AOA system with hard wired audio to the head set jacks.In addition tothe
visual warning we get audio warning when we get close to stall. Worthwhile
? absolutely. We had a constant flow of visitors throughout the building project,
after the obligatory "it looks great" we always said "Thanks - now please
find something that is wrong or can be improved". We also decided early on that
we did not have the experience to fly without a substantial equipment list.
This list is substantially greater than the minimum list. Although we have gained
a tremendous amount of building experience - we fight the urge to just go
when the RV is not 100%. When we neared the end of our project we did a comprehensive
Bi-Annual andbooked a week with Mike S for transition. This delayed our
completion date by about 3 months (budget) but was invaluable. I also asked
a local high time RV drive for a couple of hours of landing and pattern training.
Worth it's weight in Gold (Thanks - Fred). All choices based on my evaluation
of my experience levels.
Van makes an aircraft kit, that when we complete them frequently makes someofourpilot
skills look better than theyreally are. I always try to remind myself of
that and fly within my capabilities. Which is not always easy.
What this boils down to is attitude, decision making and risk management. How much
risk are we and our family willing to accept. If we spend the time to think
through these tough questions - we can manage are ourselves and the risks we
acceptwhile we relish our time in the air.
I treat building and flying our aircraft as a project ( the strong temptationis
to get working/flying) and minimizethe planning.Planning is may be hard to justifyBUT
always carries amuch greater return than the time invested. We make better
decisions when we have a plan.
I hope I have provided food for thought.
Safe Flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Hone" <martin.hone(at)tradergroup.com.au> |
Hi Dave,
I too had been thinking about a movable pitot tube, but in the end gave
the idea away - re-inventing the wheel and all that.
When all is said and done, I figure that one of the main reasons for
having a Flight Test Program is to establish the aircraft's envelope.
It doesn't really matter that the aircraft stalls at 40 knots and the
ASI is indicating 45 kts or 55 kts. As long as YOU know that when the
ASI indicates 45 kts that your ship is right on the stall. And the ASI
should be so marked that any other pilot can readily see what the
indicated stall speed is....
Martin in Oz - Nomex suit zipped up !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Evans" <gwevans(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Empennage hinge brackets |
I've noticed the powder-coating of the hinge brackets that go on the
trailing edges of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers reduces the
diameter of the bolt holes so that the elevator and rudder attach bolts
won't go through the holes.
I'm worried that I'll have a corrosion problem if I re-drill the holes
to the proper size (thereby removing the powder coating inside the
holes). Suggestions?
I'm planning to have the aircraft exterior painted professionally when
I'm all done. Do paint shops usually shoot paint on exposed surfaces
that have been primed with interior-only primer (like the exposed sides
of the aft spars) that may not be compatible with their paint system, or
do they usually mask off this area?
-Geoff Evans
RV-8 Vertical Stab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Standardization of flying techniques |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cause of Tampa Crash on Sunday-very long
>
>
> RV Friends,
>
> After a couple days to consider what has transpired, I will tell what I
> know, believe, and think about the tragic fatal crash in Tampa on Sunday.
> What we must do together:
> 1) Establish the correct way to land an RV... and establish the right way
> for planes with CS and fixed pitch props. Establish speeds for down wind,
> crosswind and final. I've been on this list for several years, and I've
seen
> different opinions, and different speeds on a regular basis. >
> I remain open to comments, and open to criticism. Please take this entire
> (lengthy) note in the way it was intended... for all of our goods, mine
and
> my other buddies included.
>
> Jim
>
> James Norman, MD
> RV6A, N555JN. Almost ready to fly.
> IO-360, CS Hartzell, Sam James Cowl/plenum, Full Apollo Stack. 7+ long
> years.
Jim, Kevin, Scott, Ed et al:
First, our deepest sympathies and condolences to family and friends of those
who were lost Sunday last. I don't believe I had met either of the
gentlemen but am greatly affected by their accident.
The messages of the last few days indicate the difficulty in trying to
develop some sort of standardization when it comes to flying RV's. There is
no single "right way" to fly an RV, or any other airplane for that matter.
There is no substitute for testing one's own aircraft to determine its
behavior and responses to varying flight demands and conditions. We can
speak of how control responses vary with speed, what airspeeds to use under
what circumstances, things to avoid and things to look for, and while all
these are helpful and important, they don't seem to improve the success rate
very much. Some of these things may not even be perceptible to the low time
or non current pilot. My own experience indicates that the softening of
control responses with dwindling airspeed may not trigger the mental alarm
bells if some distraction is present. Approach speeds need to vary as
conditions indicate. Mistakes are still possible. These mistakes happen to
pilots of both little and much experience.
With regard to the sticky ASI, most instruments have some degree of
hysteresis, good ones have less of it. When flying gliders we formed the
habit of tapping the airspeed indicator with a fingernail frequently to be
sure it was reading properly. In the early days some even put little
vibrators on the panel that could be triggered with a switch on the control
stick. Generally with powered aircraft there is sufficient vibration to
satisfy the concern. If the instrument sticks while the engine is running,
it is a pretty bad one.
These list conversations are great and we need them. I wonder though,
whether or not a simpler outline of things to look for, things to avoid and
means to determine best course of action could be developed that would be
helpful, particularly for low time pilots but also for higher time pilots
who have little or no experience in type. It has been said that the first
50 hours in a new (to the pilot) airplane are the most dangerous. So if a
checklist that might include basic criteria for grounding an aircraft, rules
of thumb that err on the safe side for establishing appropriate speeds, how
to approach the limits of the operating envelope and so forth could be
prepared, it could be helpful to everyone. I'm not smart enough to do it
alone, but there are many on the list who could. I think it important to
keep it as simple as possible. It might include references to other
resources to be used when the pilot is ready for them. It might even be
suitable as an primer for others who are called upon to critique a new or
recently acquired bird.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
There is a company called Props Inc. (see in the back of Sport Aviation
classifieds under Props) located in Newport, Oregon. I visited when looking
for my prop, ended up buying a used prop but have good data on these props.
Know a couple local people running them and all are very happy. I think his
prices are very reasonable and he delivers. He is very busy so you would
need to call to get schedule. He was highly recommended by someone we all
knew.
I have data from experiments comparing to Warnke and Sterba. Quite
surprising! 2ea from Props Inc. 3ea Warnke and 1ea Sterba. Both from Props
Inc. out climbs and top speeds everything. Can share data to individuals on
request. Test plane was RV4 180HP with lightspeed ign. Tester felt this was
the best fixed wood prop he had flown on his aircraft, including the one I
have now which is also in this data. I just happened to get a great deal on
my prop and the performance difference was very small. I'm running a Warnke.
Props Inc. is cut differently than my Warnke but looks very nice.
Mike RV4
-----Original Message-----
From: Nightingale, Roger [mailto:rnightingale(at)tycoint.com]
Subject: RV-List:
We are in the process of selecting a fixed pitch prop for our RV 9A. Do any
of you have any suggestions or comments. We have been investigating Aymar
DeMuth,
Catto, and Sensenich, would appreciate any comments or experiences.
Thanks,
Roger & Mike Nightingale
Orion, Illinois
RV 9A
N194WE (reserved)
Thanks,
Rog
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
Sorry, there wasn't a title on the original request.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson, James Mike [mailto:james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List:
There is a company called Props Inc. (see in the back of Sport Aviation
classifieds under Props) located in Newport, Oregon. I visited when looking
for my prop, ended up buying a used prop but have good data on these props.
Know a couple local people running them and all are very happy. I think his
prices are very reasonable and he delivers. He is very busy so you would
need to call to get schedule. He was highly recommended by someone we all
knew.
I have data from experiments comparing to Warnke and Sterba. Quite
surprising! 2ea from Props Inc. 3ea Warnke and 1ea Sterba. Both from Props
Inc. out climbs and top speeds everything. Can share data to individuals on
request. Test plane was RV4 180HP with lightspeed ign. Tester felt this was
the best fixed wood prop he had flown on his aircraft, including the one I
have now which is also in this data. I just happened to get a great deal on
my prop and the performance difference was very small. I'm running a Warnke.
Props Inc. is cut differently than my Warnke but looks very nice.
Mike RV4
-----Original Message-----
From: Nightingale, Roger [mailto:rnightingale(at)tycoint.com]
Subject: RV-List:
We are in the process of selecting a fixed pitch prop for our RV 9A. Do any
of you have any suggestions or comments. We have been investigating Aymar
DeMuth,
Catto, and Sensenich, would appreciate any comments or experiences.
Thanks,
Roger & Mike Nightingale
Orion, Illinois
RV 9A
N194WE (reserved)
Thanks,
Rog
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage hinge brackets |
>
>I've noticed the powder-coating of the hinge brackets that go on the
>trailing edges of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers reduces the
>diameter of the bolt holes so that the elevator and rudder attach bolts
>won't go through the holes.
>
>I'm worried that I'll have a corrosion problem if I re-drill the holes
>to the proper size (thereby removing the powder coating inside the
>holes). Suggestions?
Don't sweat it. It won't happen. Drill as required.
>
>I'm planning to have the aircraft exterior painted professionally when
>I'm all done. Do paint shops usually shoot paint on exposed surfaces
>that have been primed with interior-only primer (like the exposed sides
>of the aft spars) that may not be compatible with their paint system, or
>do they usually mask off this area?
They paint this area. Or, they won't. You're the customer and can specify.
Looks much better to paint the aft spars of the HS, VS and wings, IMHO.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
297 hrs.
>-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Food for thought |
May I use your message in the Safety Programs section of the EAA
Experimenter, please? You will be the listed author and will receive
several copies of the issue that it appears. Thanks
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Food for thought
All,
I hope you willtake a few minutes to read this and consider. Like
many of you I was sadden by another RV loss. Jim provided much info, which
lead to many interesting posts. A great number of you, with
substantially greater experience than Dave and myself (200 hrs and no
previous aircraft building experience) had valid comments.
I'd like to give yousome thoughts for your consideration.
First, we all strive for the best/perfectly constructed RV. However, we
seem to have a more difficulty spending the time/dollarsevaluating
ourselves. Everyone is capable of building and flying a safe aircraft. The
key is attitude, a student mentality and tenacity to strive for perfection.
You will notice that "strive for perfection" is the third item not the
first. This only means that the other items have a higher priority for
me.
We all know that most of us do not fly enough during the building
process and many of us are not 1000 hour pilots. In many ways this can work
to our advantage. We only need to account for thesefactors and provide
the appropriate compensation.
In our case, we made choices (usually budgetary) to offset our
inexperience. We bought a pneumatic rivet squeezer to improve the quality of
our riveting. We passed on the DG (decided to use the HSI screen on our GPS)
and installed Jim Frantz's AOA system with hard wired audio to the head set
jacks.In addition tothe visual warning we get audio warning when
we get close to stall. Worthwhile ? absolutely. We had a constant flow of
visitors throughout the building project, after the obligatory "it looks
great" we always said "Thanks - now please find something that is wrong or
can be improved". We also decided early on that we did not have the
experience to fly without a substantial equipment list. This list is
substantially greater than the minimum list. Although we have gained a
tremendous amount of building experience - we fight the urge to just go when
the RV is not 100%. When we neared the end of our project we did a
comprehensive Bi-Annual andbooked !
a week with Mike S for transition. This delayed our completion date by about
3 months (budget) but was invaluable. I also asked a local high time RV
drive for a couple of hours of landing and pattern training. Worth it's
weight in Gold (Thanks - Fred). All choices based on my evaluation of my
experience levels.
Van makes an aircraft kit, that when we complete them frequently makes
someofourpilot skills look better than theyreally
are. I always try to remind myself of that and fly within my capabilities.
Which is not always easy.
What this boils down to is attitude, decision making and risk
management. How much risk are we and our family willing to accept. If we
spend the time to think through these tough questions - we can manage are
ourselves and the risks we acceptwhile we relish our time in the
air.
I treat building and flying our aircraft as a project ( the strong
temptationis to get working/flying) and minimizethe
planning.Planning is may be hard to justifyBUT always carries
amuch greater return than the time invested. We make better decisions
when we have a plan.
I hope I have provided food for thought.
Safe Flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Kimmel" <chs-kimmels(at)worldnet.att.net> |
My RV-6A, N4357R, has an O-320, fixed pitch Paul Erbic prop, 1650 gross
weight. Indicated power off stall speed is 52 MPH.
I fly the pattern at 100-110 MPH indicated, turn base with 10 degrees of
flaps at 90 mph indicated, bleed to 80 mph on final, 75 mph on short final.
The airplane sinks rapidly below 70 mph, especially with flaps, and is
usually well on the ground before I see the stall speed. To fly final below
75mph requires power, and this is touchy in my a/c, something I usually only
do when I want a sink (approach over trees to a short strip.)
By the way, I bought my airplane, and was not the builder. I appreciate
knowing about people like Todd Wiechman, who can offer builder help to a
non-builder like me. Where else should I get a new aileron if a line guy
mushes mine? Should I buy all the tools and learn to do it myself? Are you
saying if I can't build it I shouldn't have one? Let's continue with that
logic. When, exactly, would I do this? Or should I let my local
inexperienced (on RV's, and perhaps not inclined) mechanic do it? Thanks,
Todd, for letting me know you are there.
Steve Kimmel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
>
>
>David Carter wrote:
>>
>
>> After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this "simplify it"
>> thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is not a cylinder, but a narrow
>> block (rectangular shape viewed from the front) with two holes drilled in
>> it - one "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to the
>> existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd hole being drilled
>> about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack) below the 1st - so when I'm near
>> stall in level flight (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches over
>> the runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now pointing into the
>> relative wind, and should give me an acccurate airspeed indication, i.e.,
>> near zero difference between IAS and CAS.
>
>
>
>You have come very close to describing the probe delivered with the LRI
>system. :-)
>
>Sam Buchanan (RV-6, LRI equipped)
>"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
-------------------
David and List,
Yeah, what Sam said...LRI!
See Sam's most excellent evaluation of Al Mojzisik's most excellent LRI
system at:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
I'm a believer in the value of the LRI now. I knew nothing about it until
Oshkosh this year when I spent the whole week standing right next to Al and
heard him explain what it is, how it works, and what it does for you, over
and over and over again. Not only did that cause it to sink into my
permanent memory, but I got to hear people that have them in their planes
talk about them, and not one person that fly's with one, regrets installing
it. Everyone that has one was enthusiastic about it's value.
I'll be beta testing a special slower speed version of Al's LRI soon in my
Carrera Ultralight (speed range 35-80 mph), and am really looking forward
to it. I've flown my Carrera over a thousand hours in the past 4 years and
know I can fly without an LRI, but being able to measure and see the
available lift in any condition can only help. (*ahem*, Al M., I'm leaving
on a cross country trip to Monument Valley, Utah in less than two weeks.
Sure could use it for that trip)
I've been following this thread with interest, and the whole time I was
thinking that the LRI may have helped prevent this accident, if it was
indeed the ASI reading high, giving the pilot a false sense of airspeed and
thus available lift. I came home from running errands this afternoon, and
David had sent that enlightened email to this list.
Having lost a close friend to a flying accident this past spring myself,
I know how bad it feels.
I didn't know Scott or John, but it still hurts to hear of their tragic
accident. My heart goes out to their families...
Sincerely,
Randy Simpson
Airtime Mfg.
http://www.airtimemfg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Standardization of flying techniques |
>
>These list conversations are great and we need them. I wonder though,
>whether or not a simpler outline of things to look for, things to avoid and
>means to determine best course of action could be developed that would be
>helpful, particularly for low time pilots but also for higher time pilots
>who have little or no experience in type. It has been said that the first
>50 hours in a new (to the pilot) airplane are the most dangerous. So if a
>checklist that might include basic criteria for grounding an aircraft, rules
>of thumb that err on the safe side for establishing appropriate speeds, how
>to approach the limits of the operating envelope and so forth could be
>prepared, it could be helpful to everyone. I'm not smart enough to do it
>alone, but there are many on the list who could. I think it important to
>keep it as simple as possible. It might include references to other
>resources to be used when the pilot is ready for them. It might even be
>suitable as an primer for others who are called upon to critique a new or
>recently acquired bird.
>
>Gordon Comfort
Gordon,
FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A, Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight
Flight Testing Handbook, covers some of what you are looking for (how
to establish appropriate operating speeds, how to approach limits of
the envelope). It is available from several places:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/acs/90-89a.pdf
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/90-89a.pdf
It would be hard to do some of the other things you want as it
depends so much on the individual pilot and aircraft, and the
specifics of how and where he/she operates the aircraft. For
example, flying with a bad radio would be a stupid thing to do in
some parts of the world, and no problem at all in others.
I would certainly be prepared to host any additional material on my
web site, and would offer my comments if someone wants to start
writing something.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fibreglas, yuck)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Food for thought |
Cy,
Certainly.
Thanks,
Chuck
From: "Cy Galley" <CGALLEY(at)QCBC.ORG>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Food for thought
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:50:57 -0500
-- RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley"
May I use your message in the Safety Programs section of the EAA
Experimenter, please? You will be the listed author and will receive
several copies of the issue that it appears. Thanks
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <CROWBOTHAM(at)HOTMAIL.COM>
To:
Subject: RV-List: Food for thought
-- RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham"
All,
I hope you willtake a few minutes to read this and consider. Like many of you I
was sadden by another RV loss. Jim provided much info, which
lead to many interesting posts. A great number of you, with
substantially greater experience than Dave and myself (200 hrs and no
previous aircraft building experience) had valid comments.
I'd like to give yousome thoughts for your consideration.
First, we all strive for the best/perfectly constructed RV. However, we seem to
have a more difficulty spending the time/dollarsevaluating
ourselves. Everyone is capable of building and flying a safe aircraft. The
key is attitude, a student mentality and tenacity to strive for perfection.
You will notice that "strive for perfection" is the third item not the
first. This only means that the other items have a higher priority for
me.
We all know that most of us do not fly enough during the building process and many
of us are not 1000 hour pilots. In many ways this can work
to our advantage. We only need to account for thesefactors and provide
the appropriate compensation.
In our case, we made choices (usually budgetary) to offset our inexperience. We
bought a pneumatic rivet squeezer to improve the quality of
our riveting. We passed on the DG (decided to use the HSI screen on our GPS)
and installed Jim Frantz's AOA system with hard wired audio to the head set
jacks.In addition tothe visual warning we get audio warning when
we get close to stall. Worthwhile ? absolutely. We had a constant flow of
visitors throughout the building project, after the obligatory "it looks
great" we always said "Thanks - now please find something that is wrong or
can be improved". We also decided early on that we did not have the
experience to fly without a substantial equipment list. This list is
substantially greater than the minimum list. Although we have gained a
tremendous amount of building experience - we fight the urge to just go when
the RV is not 100%. When we neared the end of our project we did a
comprehensive Bi-Annual andbooked !
a week with Mike S for transition. This delayed our completion date by about
3 months (budget) but was invaluable. I also asked a local high time RV
drive for a couple of hours of landing and pattern training. Worth it's
weight in Gold (Thanks - Fred). All choices based on my evaluation of my
experience levels.
Van makes an aircraft kit, that when we complete them frequently makes someofourpilot
skills look better than theyreally
are. I always try to remind myself of that and fly within my capabilities.
Which is not always easy.
What this boils down to is attitude, decision making and risk management. How much
risk are we and our family willing to accept. If we
spend the time to think through these tough questions - we can manage are
ourselves and the risks we acceptwhile we relish our time in the
air.
I treat building and flying our aircraft as a project ( the strong temptationis
to get working/flying) and minimizethe
planning.Planning is may be hard to justifyBUT always carries
amuch greater return than the time invested. We make better decisions
when we have a plan.
I hope I have provided food for thought.
Safe Flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary & Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Terry Edwards is the guy you want. I'll shoot off and email to Chuck to get
his phone number as I seem to have lost it.
Gary
Rick Jory wrote:
>
> Anyone in greater-Denver have a DAR they'd recommend to review, sign-off
> my 8A, sooner rather than later. Thanks.
> Rick Jory N184RJ (Reserved)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
What difference does it make what the actual stall speed number is? I know that
my 6 stalls at the bottom of the white arc with flaps down and that's ALL that
I
care about at that point. It doesn't matter what the number is. The correct
number is handy for other calculations but does not mean much on final. The
points on the airspeed indicator that the needle should point to for the various
phases of flight were determined during the flight test period and those are the
numbers that are meaningful to me during landing.
Dave -6 So Cal
David Carter wrote:
>
> I've been reading the commentary in two threads, both related to how we fly
> final, which is partly a factor of our stall speed and partly a factor about
> how we perceive handling in the pattern.
>
> I'd like to throw out an idea that focuses on the stall speed issue: I've
> always disliked the large errors between IAS and CAS in the Cessnas and some
> other airplanes I've flown. As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot
> tube is the primary cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed
> straight into the pitot tube at high AOA), I've been considering some
> "pivoting" pitot tube, one which would stay aligned into the relative wind.
>
> After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this "simplify it"
> thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is not a cylinder, but a narrow
> block (rectangular shape viewed from the front) with two holes drilled in
> it - one "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to the
> existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd hole being drilled
> about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack) below the 1st - so when I'm near
> stall in level flight (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches over
> the runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now pointing into the
> relative wind, and should give me an acccurate airspeed indication, i.e.,
> near zero difference between IAS and CAS.
>
> Those two holes would join up just aft of their respective front openings
> and the dynamic pressure be carried to the airspeed indicator by a typical
> single hose configuration.
>
> I suspect that the "average pressure" of the two holes would provide
> accurate dynamic pressure (airspeed indication) at all angles of attack
> between cruise and stall.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> David Carter
> RV-6 QB (roll bar)
> Nederland, Texas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Calibration with Manometer Numbers |
>
>17.4/20 0.20
>26/30 0.44
>34.8/40 0.79
>43.5/50 1.23
>50/57.5 1.63
>69.6/80 3.16
>70/80 3.20
>86.9/100 4.94
>100/115 6.56
>104.3/120 7.13
>110/126.5 7.95
>120/138 9.48
>130/149.5 11.14
>130/150 11.18
>150/172.5 14.87
>173.9/200 20.04
>200/230 26.71
>217.4/250 31.63
>
>First coulomb is the airspeed in knots/MPH, second coulomb is inches of
>water. Very simple accurate manometer made with 4 feet if 1/4 inch clear
>tubing from the hardware store and a yard stick and a wire tie. Wire tie
>the tubing onto the yardstick in the form of a long, skinny "u" shape,
>connect one end to the pitot tube and dribble water in the other end of
>the "u" to calibrate AS indicator in your airplane. Leaks indicate
>static or pitot connection leaks somewhere in your system, or AS
>indicator problems. Don't allow water to enter the pitot tube. The
>meniscus or "water level" or air-to-water lines indicate the pressure
>differences as applied to the water coulomb in the poly tubing. The
>length of differences between the two lines is what you are measuring
>(as indicated in the second coulomb in the above table)
>
>
>I've missed this handy table over the years and all the references at my
>house don't have this table. I found this at the Rocky Mt. site, as
>indicated by Jim Anders today.(A bunch of my friends don't have hi speed
>internet or DSL to download the PDF file, or browsers that allow
>external links. This ASCII version will be view able to all and also
>reside in the archives.
>
I cranked up an Excel 4 spreadsheet that converts between height of
the water column and the airspeed indicator reading. It will work in
mph, kts or km/hr. The zipped spreadsheet file is at:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/asi.zip
A lot of other good stuff can be found from my Flight Test Links page:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/ftlinks.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fibreglas, yuck)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pattern Speeds |
Steve Kimmel wrote:
>
>
> My RV-6A, N4357R, has an O-320, fixed pitch Paul Erbic prop, 1650 gross
> weight. Indicated power off stall speed is 52 MPH.
>
> I fly the pattern at 100-110 MPH indicated, turn base with 10 degrees of
> flaps at 90 mph indicated, bleed to 80 mph on final, 75 mph on short final.
> The airplane sinks rapidly below 70 mph, especially with flaps, and is
> usually well on the ground before I see the stall speed. To fly final below
> 75mph requires power, and this is touchy in my a/c, something I usually only
> do when I want a sink (approach over trees to a short strip.)
>
> By the way, I bought my airplane, and was not the builder. I appreciate
> knowing about people like Todd Wiechman, who can offer builder help to a
> non-builder like me. Where else should I get a new aileron if a line guy
> mushes mine? Should I buy all the tools and learn to do it myself? Are you
> saying if I can't build it I shouldn't have one? Let's continue with that
> logic. When, exactly, would I do this? Or should I let my local
> inexperienced (on RV's, and perhaps not inclined) mechanic do it? Thanks,
> Todd, for letting me know you are there.
>
> Steve Kimmel
>
You want my opinion Steve I believe it would be good for you to learn how
to repair your a/c yourself if you ding it. You missed the point about Todd's
posts it would be ok once in a while but he was sending multiple post saying
the same thing fairly frequently.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Stall speed/Pitot Tube/AOA |
Your stall speed can change. The bottom of the white arc you are referring
to is in level flight with a center loaded CG. If you are in a steep bank,
your stall speed will increase (above the bottom of the white arc). If you
are forward heavy on your CG, your stall speed will also increase. If you
are aft, your stall speed will decrease. So, an airspeed indicator is
useful to a point, but it will not necessarily stall at the bottom of the
white arc every time. This is where an LRI would come into play. It is not
affected by these variables. It will tell you when you are running out of
lift. Not to start another LRI thread, but this is a perfect example of
where they are useful.
Also, the pitot tube Dave is referring two with the two holes is a patented
idea. It is owned by Al Mojszik, and is featured on the LRI. It is called
Differential Pressure.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
> What difference does it make what the actual stall speed number is? I know
that
> my 6 stalls at the bottom of the white arc with flaps down and that's ALL
that I
> care about at that point. It doesn't matter what the number is. The
correct
> number is handy for other calculations but does not mean much on final.
The
> points on the airspeed indicator that the needle should point to for the
various
> phases of flight were determined during the flight test period and those
are the
> numbers that are meaningful to me during landing.
>
> Dave -6 So Cal
>
>
> David Carter wrote:
>
> >
> > I've been reading the commentary in two threads, both related to how we
fly
> > final, which is partly a factor of our stall speed and partly a factor
about
> > how we perceive handling in the pattern.
> >
> > I'd like to throw out an idea that focuses on the stall speed issue:
I've
> > always disliked the large errors between IAS and CAS in the Cessnas and
some
> > other airplanes I've flown. As I believe that a fixed, single hole
pitot
> > tube is the primary cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed
> > straight into the pitot tube at high AOA), I've been considering some
> > "pivoting" pitot tube, one which would stay aligned into the relative
wind.
> >
> > After "mental designing" that for a couple of years, this "simplify it"
> > thought popped up: Have a fixed tube that is not a cylinder, but a
narrow
> > block (rectangular shape viewed from the front) with two holes drilled
in
> > it - one "traditional orientation" hole that would be equivalent to the
> > existing single hole in a typical pitot tube; the 2nd hole being drilled
> > about 15 degrees (stall angle of attack) below the 1st - so when I'm
near
> > stall in level flight (during airborne calibration runs and 3 inches
over
> > the runway in the flare), the 2nd, additional hole is now pointing into
the
> > relative wind, and should give me an acccurate airspeed indication,
i.e.,
> > near zero difference between IAS and CAS.
> >
> > Those two holes would join up just aft of their respective front
openings
> > and the dynamic pressure be carried to the airspeed indicator by a
typical
> > single hose configuration.
> >
> > I suspect that the "average pressure" of the two holes would provide
> > accurate dynamic pressure (airspeed indication) at all angles of attack
> > between cruise and stall.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > David Carter
> > RV-6 QB (roll bar)
> > Nederland, Texas
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Lean Running MA4-SPA |
Subject: RV-List: Safety and operating costs (lean running Lyc)
This post is related to Lycomings as installed in the RV's using Van's
filtered air box. I have not heard of any reports of lean running in any
engines purchased new either from Van's or Aero Sport Power or overhauled
engines from Aero Sport Power were the core was supplied by Aero Sport. The
reason I mention this is all these engines are equipped with the correct new
or overhauled carburetor for the particular engine and are test run and fuel
flow is set to the proper flow. If for some reason there needs to be an
adjustment after being flown it will probably be nothing more than a float
level adjustment.
Running on the test stand the full throttle fuel flow for a 160 HP 0320 is
between 14.5 -15 gals per hour and for the 0360 between 17.5-18 gals per
hour.
Hi Eustace
You have brought up a good point that I had not considered - yet it only
deepens the mystery.
I went and looked at the test run report for my AeroSport overhauled
engine/carb (0-320 160HP) and it says that the fuel flow was 14.6 at "up to
full" RPM and 14.5 at 2450 RPM & 28" MP. This test run was with the smaller
P/N 10-3678-32 carb.
There was adequate fuel flow on the test stand with the test prop and I had
asked Bart to set up the carb for the increased power (150 to 160).
However when this engine was installed in the RV-6A it ran very lean, on the
lean side of peak power.
Bart exchanged the carb for a Precision P/N 10-5217 carb and it still ran
lean.
So why is the engine/carb combination OK on the test stand and lean in the
aircraft?? beats me!
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
Member - Nozzle Drillers Club
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cause of Tampa Crash |
Jim & List:
Jim, your well reasoned reporting of last weekend's trajedy honor Stan &
John and provide us all a great service.
One aspect that has not yet been discussed is the difference in the pitch
response characteristics as the CG moves aft. This is obviously more
pronounced with the tandem models but is also true for the side by sides.
My 4 with a constant speed/O-320 flown solo is near the forward limit and is
quite stable in pitch and responds well to pitch inputs at approach speeds.
With increasing passenger/baggage weight and the associated more aft CG,
pitch response becomes much more sluggish. Slow flight, at altitude, with a
CG 75% of envelope aft, provides a dramatic demonstration in that the stick
can be cycled back and forth rapidly 2 or 3 inches in pitch with little
effect on the aircraft pitch attitude demonstrating the approaching neutral
pitch stability state. It seems clear that a stall near the ground in an
aft CG condition will require aggressive, correct recovery inputs and
require more altitude for a successful recovery.
I believe early flight testing should include slow flight and at least
approaches to stalls at a safe altitude with CG positions forward in the
envelope. As experience is gained, the tests should be repeated with more
aft CGs. The aft limit should be respected and approached with caution.
Many years ago Chuck Berthe wrote an excellant RVator article on this topic.
I will do some research and find the date.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
Eagle Neck Airpark GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Speeds |
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 6:04 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Stall Speeds
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> It doesn't really matter that the aircraft stalls at 40 knots and
the
> ASI is indicating 45 kts or 55 kts. As long as YOU know that when the
> ASI indicates 45 kts that your ship is right on the stall. >
> Martin in Oz - Nomex suit zipped up !
I'd like to point out a specific reason for knowing what the accurate stall
speed (calibrated airspeed, i.e., IAS with error corrected to give CAS).
Now, some folks are going to go "Yawn . . . techno babble. . ." (remember
where the "delete" key is!)
I happen to have done lots of calculations in most of the USAF fighters I've
flown and even in the Cessnas I've flown, where I wanted to know how many
'g's I could pull at a different speeds and weights. The starting number
you MUST have is the stall speed (CAS, not IAS) at some specific weight. I
always picked it out of the performance charts and then flight tested to
verify that my IAS at stall at a particular weight, when corrected for
'position error' from the chart in the performance section, was quite close
to the CAS I initially calculated.
The simple application for light aircraft is this: If my stall speed is 50
KCAS (maybe 45KIAS), then if I double my speed up to 100 knots, I can pull 4
g's ("double squared"). By extension, if I went at 3 times my stall speed
for that weight, I'd be able to pull 9 g's (if wings didn't come off first)
("triple squared"). The whole point is, stall speeds need to be known in
terms of CAS, not IAS, if you are going to do "what if . . ." calculations
for different weights and speeds.
I know that most folks don't get down to that level of detail. I usually
find a reason to need the details - part of "knowing my airplane". I
actually calculate, accurately and validly, what my stall speed is for
weights other than full gross wt (which is what factory spam cans give you -
stall at max gross).
Now, another, and the real reason why do I want to know my CAS: To
calculate my final approach speed as 1.3 times V stall (CAS). I work with
CAS for "scaling up or down" in weight or g's, then apply the position error
from the chart for the different CAS I'm working with, to get my cockpit
indication. Just like others have said - they go up on their first time in
a new airplane and do a mild stall - I do, too, and before I do it, I
calculate what the stall speed ought to be (CAS & IAS) and compare what I
see to what the flight manual said I ought to see.
David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
> >The Author's name is Wolfgang Langewiesche the title of the book is
> Stick
> >and Rudder. The publisher is McGraw-Hill, Inc. ISBN 0-07-036240-8
>
> >A very good read!!
>
> YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THERE ARE PILOTS THAT HAVEN'T READ THIS BOOK??????
>
> Gad. I suppose they haven't read the Spirit of St. Louis either. What's
> this world coming to.
May as well mention "Fate is the Hunter" as well. I'd say that completes a
pretty good "top 3 aviation books of all time" list.
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
Bob- Re:
"I have a flop tube in right wing only. My experience is that the left
wing
when fuel level is half full or below, will unport the fuel pick up tube
with the left wing high (as in making a 40 degree banking turn). "
I would suggest that unporting isn't the issue, unless the aircraft is
soooo uncoordinated that you're being pressed to the side wall of the
cockpit. My first guess would be some 'g' related issue, like flexure of
lines, movement of linkages, etc. I've seen prop gov's change their set
speed slightly in as little as a 15 degree bank, (it's easy to notice in a
twin...) and go back to it's original setting once straight and level.
FWIW
glen
rv-8, almost on gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Engine corrosion heads up |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Engine corrosion heads up<
"...what about engines that have been sitting for awhile
with prop installed? It sounds like the best strategy is to delay the prop
installation as much as possible and keep checking until then. Does
anyone
know if there's a Lycoming service letter on long term storage?"
Long term storage of Lycs is addressed in two places: Service letter L180B
and another number I don't recall. Both address active aircraft that won't
be flown fo a while. They aren't much use for a homebuilt in the project
stage, as they are about installing preservative oil and running the engine
up, desicator plugs, etc. The AD on crankshaft corrosion was for 320's and
certain fixed pitch 360's. The presumption is that the affected area on a
CS installation, such as the A1B6, is bathed in lubricating oil. As such,
I sprayed my crank interior with an aerosol automotive engine preservative
purchased at the local Mejier store.
The only real help I could get out of Lyc was from a tech who said that if
it was his engine, he'd store it upside down and filled completely with oil
and / or preservative. Mine is on it's mount, which is bolted to a
reinforced plywood mockup of my firewall, which is in turn bolted to a $40
Harbor Freight engine stand. This allows me to rotate the engine to work
on acces, contemplate fire wall installations, and slosh the innards.
Glen
rv8, soon on gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ & LM Tennant" <dltenno(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lean Running MA4-SPA |
Could The lean running be somehow related to the engine /prop combination?
My engine ran fine on the test bench with a test prop but was lean in the
aircraft with a flight prop( wood course pitch prop)
has anyone had a lean running engine fitted with a constant speed prop in an
Rv?
I have access to a test prop when i get time i will put it on my plane and
compare egts etc and post the results
Dave Tennant
RV6 160hp
Australia
recent addition to the nozzle drillers club
>From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lean Running MA4-SPA
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:52:33 -0700
>
>
>Subject: RV-List: Safety and operating costs (lean running Lyc)
>
>
>This post is related to Lycomings as installed in the RV's using Van's
>filtered air box. I have not heard of any reports of lean running in any
>engines purchased new either from Van's or Aero Sport Power or overhauled
>engines from Aero Sport Power were the core was supplied by Aero Sport. The
>reason I mention this is all these engines are equipped with the correct
>new
>or overhauled carburetor for the particular engine and are test run and
>fuel
>flow is set to the proper flow. If for some reason there needs to be an
>adjustment after being flown it will probably be nothing more than a float
>level adjustment.
>
>Running on the test stand the full throttle fuel flow for a 160 HP 0320 is
>between 14.5 -15 gals per hour and for the 0360 between 17.5-18 gals per
>hour.
>
>
>Hi Eustace
>
>You have brought up a good point that I had not considered - yet it only
>deepens the mystery.
>
>I went and looked at the test run report for my AeroSport overhauled
>engine/carb (0-320 160HP) and it says that the fuel flow was 14.6 at "up to
>full" RPM and 14.5 at 2450 RPM & 28" MP. This test run was with the smaller
>P/N 10-3678-32 carb.
>
>There was adequate fuel flow on the test stand with the test prop and I had
>asked Bart to set up the carb for the increased power (150 to 160).
>
>However when this engine was installed in the RV-6A it ran very lean, on
>the
>lean side of peak power.
>
>Bart exchanged the carb for a Precision P/N 10-5217 carb and it still ran
>lean.
>
>So why is the engine/carb combination OK on the test stand and lean in the
>aircraft?? beats me!
>
>George McNutt
>Langley B.C.
>Member - Nozzle Drillers Club
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
""......I highly recommend "Stick and Rudder" for any body flying an RV
or an RV/A,
although I don't remember the author's name???..."""
The Author is Wolfgang Lech$
&&*&@$#@ (Llechivitz ?). He just past away,
he was well into his 90's. This book is one of the aviation classics and
belongs on every pilots book shelf. Maybe the person that runs the Book
Store on the list can help with the spelling of the authors name.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Reformatted - Food for Thought |
All,
I hope you willtake a few minutes to read this and consider. Like many of
you I was sadden by another RV loss. Jim provided much info, which lead to
many interesting posts. A great number of you, with substantially greater
experience than Dave and myself (200 hrs and no previous aircraft building
experience) had valid comments.
I'd like to give yousome thoughts for your consideration.
First, we all strive for the best/perfectly constructed RV. However, we seem
to have a more difficulty spending the time/dollarsevaluating ourselves.
Everyone is capable of building and flying a safe aircraft. The key is
attitude, a student mentality and tenacity to strive for perfection. You
will notice that "strive for perfection" is the third item not the first.
This only means that the other items have a higher priority for me.
We all know that most of us do not fly enough during the building process
and many of us are not 1000 hour pilots. In many ways this can work to our
advantage. We only need to account for thesefactors and provide the
appropriate compensation.
In our case, we made choices (usually budgetary) to offset our inexperience.
We bought a pneumatic rivet squeezer to improve the quality of our riveting.
We passed on the DG (decided to use the HSI screen on our GPS) and installed
Jim Frantz's AOA system with hard wired audio to the head set jacks.In
addition tothe visual warning we get audio warning when we get close to
stall. Worthwhile ? absolutely. We had a constant flow of visitors
throughout the building project, after the obligatory "it looks great" we
always said "Thanks - now please find something that is wrong or can be
improved". We also decided early on that we did not have the experience to
fly without a substantial equipment list. This list is substantially greater
than the minimum list. Although we have gained a tremendous amount of
building experience - we fight the urge to just go when the RV is not 100%.
When we neared the end of our project we did a comprehensive Bi-Annual
andbooked a week with Mike S for transition. This delayed our completion
date by about 3 months (budget) but was invaluable. I also asked a local
high time RV drive for a couple of hours of landing and pattern training.
Worth it's weight in Gold (Thanks - Fred). All choices based on my
evaluation of my experience levels.
Van makes an aircraft kit, that when we complete them frequently makes
someofourpilot skills look better than theyreally are. I always try to
remind myself of that and fly within my capabilities. Which is not always
easy.
What this boils down to is attitude, decision making and risk management.
How much risk are we and our family willing to accept. If we spend the time
to think through these tough questions - we can manage are ourselves and the
risks we acceptwhile we relish our time in the air.
I treat building and flying our aircraft as a project ( the strong
temptationis to get working/flying) and minimizethe planning.Planning is
may be hard to justifyBUT always carries amuch greater return than the
time invested. We make better decisions when we have a plan.
I hope I have provided food for thought.
Safe Flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (120 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
Wolfgang Langewiesche "Stick and Rudder", McGraw Hill,
Barry Pote Rv9a finishing
P M Condon wrote:
>
>
> ""......I highly recommend "Stick and Rudder" for any body flying an RV
> or an RV/A,
> although I don't remember the author's name???..."""
>
> The Author is Wolfgang Lech$
&&*&@$#@ (Llechivitz ?). He just past away,
> he was well into his 90's. This book is one of the aviation classics and
> belongs on every pilots book shelf. Maybe the person that runs the Book
> Store on the list can help with the spelling of the authors name.....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Bending rudder trailing edge |
I am in the process of bending the trailing edge for my rudder
and have made the observation that since the spar tapers (i.e.
wider at the bottom, narrower at the top) if you make a uniform,
straight bend with a brake, it will not match the angle to the spar
uniformly down the whole length. This may be too nit-picky, so I
wanted to see what the flyers opinions were about how precise the
trailing edge bend should be. Also, I was not happy with the
way my wooden brake was working out, so I called a local
heating and cooling shop that has an 8' brake, and they said
to bring it by and they would bend it for me. Also, one other variation,
I am using 3/32 mild steel welding rod to radius the bend. I went to
a local welding shop and asked for two 3' pieces of 3/32 mild steel
rod. They handed them to me and said take them, it will cost more to
write a receipt.
Phil
8A-emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aircraft Technical Book Company <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
> The Author is Wolfgang Lech$
&&*&@$#@ (Llechivitz ?). He just past away, he
> was well into his 90's. This book is one of the aviation classics and
> belongs on every pilots book shelf. Maybe the person that runs the Book
> Store on the list ...
His name is Wolfgang Langewiesche, (but don't hold me on the pronounciation)
I just ordered 30 copies of Stick & Rudder and will add it to the catalog as
soon as they arrive. In the mean time, for anybody on the RV list who wants
to pre-order, before they actually show up, we'll give a $5 discount.
Regular price is $24.95. RV-list pre-order price is $19.95.
You can order it by itself by return e-mail or by phone, or if ordering
additional stuff on the web site, just write in "Stick & Rudder" in the
special instructions box on the final order form.
Thanks,
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)iajobs.com> |
| Subject: | Bending rudder trailing edge |
Phil,
Would suggest you stay away from the metal brake. Wood brake works great,
bend a little at a time and vary the taper a bit by placing one edge of the
rudder closer to the brake hinge line.
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
DSM
I am in the process of bending the trailing edge for my rudder
and have made the observation that since the spar tapers (i.e.
wider at the bottom, narrower at the top) if you make a uniform,
straight bend with a brake, it will not match the angle to the spar
uniformly down the whole length. This may be too nit-picky, so I
wanted to see what the flyers opinions were about how precise the
trailing edge bend should be. Also, I was not happy with the
way my wooden brake was working out, so I called a local
heating and cooling shop that has an 8' brake, and they said
to bring it by and they would bend it for me. Also, one other variation,
I am using 3/32 mild steel welding rod to radius the bend. I went to
a local welding shop and asked for two 3' pieces of 3/32 mild steel
rod. They handed them to me and said take them, it will cost more to
write a receipt.
Phil
8A-emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
There is some information on rolling your own LRI on the net...
Airsoob Angle of Attack Meter:
http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm
AOA Indicator for SA:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sonexbuilders/files/SA_AOA.pdf
Make your own LRI Probes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sonexbuilders/files/
-Bill
http://vondane.com/rv8a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP That's a good idea -- I'll use it on my small parts from now on. Based
on some of the discussion on the Chapter 1000 website
(http://www.eaa1000.av.org/), I decided to build simple tanks to use
to acid etch and Alodine the larger parts (spars / skins). I used 2x4s
and some plastic sheeting, designed around the form of the largest
part. I could do an entire spar or 1/2 of a skin using only about a
gallon of liquid. When I was done, I siphoned it back into the
container. SNIP
You can do all of the angle, bar and tubing in a trough made from plastic gutter
from the aviation aisle at Home Depot. Cheap and you aren't as likely to poke
a hole in it.
Vince Frazier
1946 Stinson, NC97535, flying
F-1H Rocket, "Six Shooter", N540VF reserved,
canopy installation stage
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending rudder trailing edge |
I too could only bend it so far with the wooden brake. I finished it up with
the hand seamer. Worked out fine.
-Larry
http://BowenAero.com
--- "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" wrote:
>
> I am in the process of bending the trailing edge for my rudder
> and have made the observation that since the spar tapers (i.e.
> wider at the bottom, narrower at the top) if you make a uniform,
> straight bend with a brake, it will not match the angle to the spar
> uniformly down the whole length. This may be too nit-picky, so I
> wanted to see what the flyers opinions were about how precise the
> trailing edge bend should be. Also, I was not happy with the
> way my wooden brake was working out, so I called a local
> heating and cooling shop that has an 8' brake, and they said
> to bring it by and they would bend it for me. Also, one other variation,
> I am using 3/32 mild steel welding rod to radius the bend. I went to
> a local welding shop and asked for two 3' pieces of 3/32 mild steel
> rod. They handed them to me and said take them, it will cost more to
> write a receipt.
>
> Phil
> 8A-emp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
Since the Tampa crash I am hearing scary things about RV's. My RV4 is
about
75% finished and you guys are causing me to have second thoughts. I have
always been under the impression the RV series was a docile easy to
handle
airplane that landed easily and with a stall speed of 55 to 60 mph
depending
on loading and landing speed should be about 1.3 times the stall
speed . I learned to fly in Cherokees and now fly a
Cherokee Arrow every week.
I have done a lot of slow flight and have got into a spin once as a
student and solo at that during slow flight. I must have had the ball
all the way
to one side and uncoordinated is the only thing I can figure that could
have
caused it. Now I am hearing 90 mph finals, high sink rates and so on
with the RV.
The Cherokee in slow flight will just sort of mush and if you keep
pulling
back on the stick till it stalls will sort off have a high sink rate but
not drop
a wing. My question is with the RV if you stall it is it going to drop a
wing
and go into a spin even if it is coordinated?
Earl RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending rudder trailing edge |
I haven't got to this point on my -7 Emp yet, but it would seem to me
that since the rudder itself tapers as well as the spar, that a uniform
bend along the trailing edge should indeed bring you to the right place.
This might be hard to visualize if you don't have a fair bit of drafting
experience, though.
Actually, thinking about this more... Since the two sides of the rudder
are both flat planes, and since they meet along a "line" at the trailing
edge, the bend along that line *must* be uniform, if the sides are to
stay planar.
-Rob Prior
RV-7 Empennage (thinking that my rudder will be the new type with
extruded trailing edge, so I won't have to worry about this...)
Wiethe, Philip (P.J.) wrote:
>
> I am in the process of bending the trailing edge for my rudder
> and have made the observation that since the spar tapers (i.e.
> wider at the bottom, narrower at the top) if you make a uniform,
> straight bend with a brake, it will not match the angle to the spar
> uniformly down the whole length. This may be too nit-picky, so I
> wanted to see what the flyers opinions were about how precise the
> trailing edge bend should be. Also, I was not happy with the
> way my wooden brake was working out, so I called a local
> heating and cooling shop that has an 8' brake, and they said
> to bring it by and they would bend it for me. Also, one other variation,
> I am using 3/32 mild steel welding rod to radius the bend. I went to
> a local welding shop and asked for two 3' pieces of 3/32 mild steel
> rod. They handed them to me and said take them, it will cost more to
> write a receipt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>Since the Tampa crash I am hearing scary things about RV's.
Earl: The RV series of airplanes are one of the best flying airplanes
out there and one of the easiest to fly. If you have flown your Cheorkee
Arrow without problems your -4 will make that look like somewhat of
a....how can I gently put this......a dog. Well, not a dog but you will
be so much happier with your -4 the only time you will fly the Arrow is
if you have three or four people to get around. And you will be anxious
to get back in your -4.
The thread here is to get to know your airplane. A 90mph final is
indicated air speed and the airplane may not be actually going that
fast. I fly Suzie Q 85 in the pattern and 75 on final and she "rides the
rails" to the end of the runway. As with any airplane, on final if you
want to come down pull back on the stick. If you want to come down
faster, pull harder; i.e., the slower you are on final, the greater the
sink rate. With full flaps, the angle of descent can be steeper than you
are used to. With half flaps you just kind of float to the end of the
runway.
One of the great things about this wing is it DOES fly slowly without
biting. Don't try 75 in a Lancair. In fact, if you want to appreciate
your -4 a little more, go fly with someone in a Lancair and compare the
two in the pattern. NOT that there is anything wrong with a Lancair;
they are just different, especially when slowed up.
The simple fact there are so many of the RV series of airplanes flying
without problems and many more being built tells you they must be a
great flying airplane. How many Sidewinders do you see flying? And with
the numbers of airplanes going up, there will be incidents we hear
about. We just work to make it less likely we will be involved.
Your airplane will stall with characteristics that are dependent on its
rigging. You may drop a wing, you may not. It is not this sudden 90
degree bank thing, just a gentle dropping of the wing, easily picked up
with RUDDER input. Same may happen with one fuel tank fuller than the
other side. Very controllable. A falling leaf maneuver mentioned in a
previous post is done with the airplane in a full stall, drifting from
side to side. You can't do that if the stall characteristics are bad.
Spin? You bet they will if you horse them into one. I have never gotten
close to a spin I wasn't intentionally trying to get into, even with
honking her around in slow flight to see, again, when she'll "let go".
The thread here is to get to know your airplane and it will teach you
what you need to know to fly it well, if you listen. It is hard to hear
all this after someone has crashed. But one of the great things about
this list is the sharing of information. Help comes when you're building
and doesn't stop once you've started flying. We all have opinions on how
things should be done. You will too after you begin flying. And you will
share that information with pilots that may not have the experience you
will soon have.
These airplanes need to be respected as all airplanes should. The
difference is these airplanes develop sort of a relationship with their
pilots like none other. You will find, in most cases, the reason someone
sells their RV is because they are building another one. Second
offenders, Van calls them.
Keep building. You will LOVE your new airplane.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Wo Suzie Q baby I love you, Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cweyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage hinge brackets |
I used a reamer of the propert size. Cheap to buy and you'll end up with
perfectly round holes, no slop and the bolts slide in with a perfect fit.
Don't worry 'bout the corrosion, won't happen.
Chuck Weyant
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Evans" <gwevans(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Empennage hinge brackets
>
> I've noticed the powder-coating of the hinge brackets that go on the
> trailing edges of the horizontal and vertical stabilizers reduces the
> diameter of the bolt holes so that the elevator and rudder attach bolts
> won't go through the holes.
>
> I'm worried that I'll have a corrosion problem if I re-drill the holes
> to the proper size (thereby removing the powder coating inside the
> holes). Suggestions?
>
> I'm planning to have the aircraft exterior painted professionally when
> I'm all done. Do paint shops usually shoot paint on exposed surfaces
> that have been primed with interior-only primer (like the exposed sides
> of the aft spars) that may not be compatible with their paint system, or
> do they usually mask off this area?
>
> -Geoff Evans
> RV-8 Vertical Stab
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop? |
>
>Reply directly to me to avoid cluttering up the list
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
NO!!! Dont reply directly to Kevin. I also am curious about this. Comments
from fixed pitch users desired as well.
Mike Wills
RV4 (firewall forward details; Mazda powered)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending rudder trailing edge |
If you want to get really technical, not only does the spar taper, but the
"chord" (leading to trailing edge length) also tapers down...making this
point moot. Just make a consistent bend the whole length of the rudder and
don't sweat it! 8
)
)_( Dan
dan @ rvproject . com
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe(at)ford.com>
Subject: RV-List: Bending rudder trailing edge
>
> I am in the process of bending the trailing edge for my rudder
> and have made the observation that since the spar tapers (i.e.
> wider at the bottom, narrower at the top) if you make a uniform,
> straight bend with a brake, it will not match the angle to the spar
> uniformly down the whole length. This may be too nit-picky, so I
> wanted to see what the flyers opinions were about how precise the
> trailing edge bend should be. Also, I was not happy with the
> way my wooden brake was working out, so I called a local
> heating and cooling shop that has an 8' brake, and they said
> to bring it by and they would bend it for me. Also, one other variation,
> I am using 3/32 mild steel welding rod to radius the bend. I went to
> a local welding shop and asked for two 3' pieces of 3/32 mild steel
> rod. They handed them to me and said take them, it will cost more to
> write a receipt.
>
> Phil
> 8A-emp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Hunsicker <gh2538(at)cjnetworks.com> |
I have put 300 hours on my -4 0-320 150hp Warnke prop in the past 14
months and it is the safest most responsive aircraft I have ever flown.
I have many hours in Cessna and Pipers, I would not trade this bird
for anything except maybe an -8! On short field landings I come in
final high and 45 MPH indicated with a high sink rate and arrest the
sink with some power about 15 feet above ground and make the smoothest
short field landings you ever saw. Know your bird and how it acts by
practicing air work ait altitude in all kinds of weight and temperature
conditions then YOU and only YOU can decide what YOU are comfortable
with on final. I fly about every day because I have a hangar home on a
private strip and I'm sure that makes a difference with my comfort
level. I do not like long low fast final approaches. I stay tight in
the pattern and make sure I can make the runway in the event of a power
loss. Do not get discouraged! Your good times are yet to come!
Greg
Earl Fortner wrote:
>
>Since the Tampa crash I am hearing scary things about RV's. My RV4 is
>about
>75% finished and you guys are causing me to have second thoughts. I have
>
>always been under the impression the RV series was a docile easy to
>handle
>airplane that landed easily and with a stall speed of 55 to 60 mph
>depending
>on loading and landing speed should be about 1.3 times the stall
>speed . I learned to fly in Cherokees and now fly a
>Cherokee Arrow every week.
>I have done a lot of slow flight and have got into a spin once as a
>student and solo at that during slow flight. I must have had the ball
>all the way
>to one side and uncoordinated is the only thing I can figure that could
>have
>caused it. Now I am hearing 90 mph finals, high sink rates and so on
>with the RV.
>The Cherokee in slow flight will just sort of mush and if you keep
>pulling
>back on the stick till it stalls will sort off have a high sink rate but
>not drop
>a wing. My question is with the RV if you stall it is it going to drop a
>wing
>and go into a spin even if it is coordinated?
>Earl RV4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
> always been under the impression the RV series was a docile easy to
> handle
> airplane that landed easily and with a stall speed of 55 to 60 mph
> depending
> on loading and landing speed should be about 1.3 times the stall
Your impression is correct. RV's are very docile and easy to handle.
1.3Vso works great. 1.2Vso is what I use and the sink rate is only slightly
higher and still very easy to land. 1.1Vso is useful for very short
stopping distances, but the sink rate is quite high and should only be used
when very familliar with the airplane.
>Now I am hearing 90 mph finals, high sink rates and so on
> with the RV.
IMHO, 90mph is only *necessary* with very overweight airframes (and even
then I would question necessity unless Vso was 70mph or greater). But
again, attesting to the wide envelope of an RV it can be landed very nicely
from this speed - it's just a little harder on the tires and brakes. The
high sink rates only occur with very low airspeeds (below 1.3Vso).
> The Cherokee in slow flight will just sort of mush and if you keep
> pulling
> back on the stick till it stalls will sort off have a high sink rate but
> not drop
> a wing. My question is with the RV if you stall it is it going to drop a
> wing
> and go into a spin even if it is coordinated?
The RV is not as docile as a Cherokee - if it was it wouldn't be the nimble
little performer that it is. However, it's still a pussycat. If you keep
pulling back on the stick in an RV the sink rate does go way up, and the
nose *will* drop through the horizon when it stalls. But if you keep the
ball centered it will not spin - the nose just keeps bobbing up and down
trying to get your attention. The rudder (and even the ailerons) remain
effective. If you don't keep it coordinated, a wing will drop, but mine
won't spin without being really aggressive or applying pro-spin inputs.
Don't fret, you'll love it.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Spinner forward bulkhead: to screw or not to screw |
>I'm working on the spinner installation on my RV-8.
Fixed pitch spinner on an RV-4: I put in screws even though it was a
tight fit, made even better by a layer of black electric tape just for
some "give". I have had two spinners come off NON-RV airplanes and the
more secure the better. 650 hours: no cracking, no give, no nothing.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Di Meo" <bdimeo(at)attbi.com> |
Eric,
I was out as of last Wednesday. I'll stay on the lists to fill the time in
between the job hunt. The Telecom meltdown has hit hard here in the North
East.
Bob
RV8 fuselage-going on hold.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com
Subject: RV-List: Signing Off
Hey All,
I really hate to do this on such a dark week, but I have no choice. Next
week I will join millions of my fellow Americans that have been downsized
by corporate America. Since I won't be able to sit and watch the RV list
with one eye while the other one does some sort of work function, I'll
unplug for a while. The current plan is to be a semi-pro hired gun to some
F1 Rocket friends of mine and take a break from Corporate B.S. for a few
months. Need to get a Rocket up on its gear in the next month or so and
then see if I can remember where I left my -6 last year, well into the
finishing stage. Eventually I'll probably land back in some "suit monkey"
position where I can make my daily quota of instigating e-mails on THEIR
time.
If anyone needs me I'll be at Jarhed(at)bellsouth.net
You guys be safe, we don't need any more weeks like this one. See ya'll
down the road a piece.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> |
Ok Earl, let's put this in perspective.
When I first flew my RV-3 I was a low time (160 hours over 14 years!) C-152
pilot. I recently took my BFR in a C-152 after flying some 250+ hours in my
RV-3. I felt very uncomfortable flying the C-152, had a hard time landing it
and had try at least a couple of times before I could do a passable landing
in it. I even called the C-152 "unsafe". Take-off and droning out from the
airfield trying to gain pattern altitude over densely populated area with not
enough altitude to turn back in case of engine failure, I felt acutely
uncomfortable.
As for stalls, it won't go into a spin if flown coordinated (unless severely
mis-rigged). As for low speeds, I just went up a couple of hours ago: stall
at 53 mph IAS at 1100 RPM. Come out of the stall by easing off on the
back-pressure. Plenty of warning: stick extremely loose. Or keep the stick
all the way back and feet off the rudder and watch one wing dip, change it's
mind, the other wing dip, back and forth.
Keeping a tight, fast pattern is just my personal preference. You free up the
pattern for others to use and can always reach the runway in case of engine
failure. As for higher final approach speeds, I fly out of a field the
routinely has gusting cross winds, and I like the extra control authority,
flying it down the runway a few inches above the runway until airspeed bleeds
off and it gently settles. Personal preference.
Flying into a 1,300' grass strip with fences at both ends, I of course
approach at slower speed, and yes, it can be done without help from your
engine!
Yes, you're going to love flying your RV-4!
Finn
RV-3 Mazda 13-B rotary powered.
Earl Fortner wrote:
>
> Since the Tampa crash I am hearing scary things about RV's. My RV4 is
> about
> 75% finished and you guys are causing me to have second thoughts. I have
>
> always been under the impression the RV series was a docile easy to
> handle
> airplane that landed easily and with a stall speed of 55 to 60 mph
> depending
> on loading and landing speed should be about 1.3 times the stall
> speed . I learned to fly in Cherokees and now fly a
> Cherokee Arrow every week.
> I have done a lot of slow flight and have got into a spin once as a
> student and solo at that during slow flight. I must have had the ball
> all the way
> to one side and uncoordinated is the only thing I can figure that could
> have
> caused it. Now I am hearing 90 mph finals, high sink rates and so on
> with the RV.
> The Cherokee in slow flight will just sort of mush and if you keep
> pulling
> back on the stick till it stalls will sort off have a high sink rate but
>
> not drop
> a wing. My question is with the RV if you stall it is it going to drop a
> wing
> and go into a spin even if it is coordinated?
> Earl RV4
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
"Stick and Rudder ... An Explanation of the Art of Flying"
by
Wolfgang Langewiesche.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:07 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Landings
>
>
>
> ""......I highly recommend "Stick and Rudder" for any body flying an RV
> or an RV/A,
> although I don't remember the author's name???..."""
>
> The Author is Wolfgang Lech$
&&*&@$#@ (Llechivitz ?). He just past away,
> he was well into his 90's. This book is one of the aviation classics and
> belongs on every pilots book shelf. Maybe the person that runs the Book
> Store on the list can help with the spelling of the authors name.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick McCraw" <rmccraw(at)wcvt.com> |
Regarding extreme slow-flight practice: I, too, was taught the exercise
of flying while holding the plane (a 172) in the stall buffet. One
goal of the exercise was, indeed, to recognize the mushiness of the
controls near the stall. Another aspect of the drill was to keep the
plane in coordinated flight so when it DID break it would not spin, not
always easy with the plane mushing and yawing and with limited control
authority.
I carried this exercise forward to my Bonanza, which I shouldn't have
done. The last time I tried this, the break was so violent (a spin
entry, I'm sure) that my Jepp book rose up off the passenger's seat and
smote me in the head.
Moral: Don't do this unless you're prepared to spin. I'd suggest having
a knowledgeable instructor along, too.
Rick McCraw
RV-7 emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lean running MA-4SPA |
| From: | Gary Graham <beeb(at)teleport.com> |
Carburetor Driller's,
In the interest of long term safety: PLEASE stamp the data plate of your
modified carburetors with "EXPERIMENTAL" or remove the data plates. Even
the best field rebuilder could miss a main jet modification unless the
nozzle part number is obliterated or modified. At a minimum they will be
warned by the experimental marking. These carbs. are going to be in the
system for a long time.
Given the responses I have received from driller's, only a couple of folks
have done this. However, the archives indicate otherwise. No data ...... No
analysis.
Gary,
Thanks E. B. for tipping the scales to the safety side.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg fairings- gap in back |
In a message dated 8/21/02 8:29:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
SportAV8R(at)aol.com writes:
> This area is rather thin
> and small for fooling with nut plates and screws, so I'm looking for
> retention clip ideas or anything similar/clever. Must be removable for
> service & inspection.
Bill,
Hmmmm, removable for inspection? I have the same fairings and am happy
with my choice to 'glass them in place'. I used the internal spring method
and have no screws. I glassed in the rear 'slit'. If I want to see what's
underneath I simply pull down to remove the spring and carefully (I use a
soft papertowel) lower them down the gearleg fairing. They fit like a glove,
have no screws, and no gap in the back with 'tape' holding them together. You
may try this method - a little more work but worth it IMO.
Rick Gray RV 6 Flying with 54.4 hours in 16 days (with a flight test plan) -
(Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm - stalls are straight forward
please archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 01:30 PM, Earl Fortner wrote:
>
> Since the Tampa crash I am hearing scary things about RV's. My RV4 is
> about
> 75% finished and you guys are causing me to have second thoughts.
I'll add my $.02.
I'm not a high-time RV pilot, but I've had the opportunity to fly a
couple of 4s, three 6s, a 6a and an 8A for a total of maybe 25-30
hours. I have about 2000 hours over 20 years in a pretty eclectic group
of airplanes, enough that I feel I have some basis for comparison.
I think the RV series has incredibly benign handling for the level of
performance it delivers. They are pleasant, fun airplanes to fly with
unusually low pilot workload.
The RV safety record is good, especially considering how the airplanes
are typically used.
Some figures, mostly from the AOPA "Nall Report":
170,000 general aviation aircraft, 151,000 singles and 19,000 multis.
20,400 experimentals (FAA numbers--may be low)
Conservatively, 2500 RVs active in the U.S.
In 1999, 1654 total accidents (1452 factory built, 202 experimental)
just over 20% of which were fatal
"personal" flying is estimated at 44% of hours, but 67% of accidents.
If you assume that RVs fly the same number of hours as the average GA
airplane and had an average accident rate, you would expect to see about
2 RV accidents a month averaged over the year, or 24 total, based solely
on their prevalence in the population. About 20% or 5 of those accidents
would be expected to be fatal.
In the last 12 months, I counted 17 RV accidents in the NTSB database,
of which 6 were fatals
I think you can argue that RVs are used almost exclusively for "personal
flying" which has a demonstrably higher risk. I think you can also
reasonably argue that RVs are more likely to be involved in relatively
risky behavior such as "buzzing," aerobatics, flying off short rough
strips, etc than the typical "spam can"
RVs are typically built in garages by people with varying levels of
skill and no systematic quality control, but they aren't falling out of
the sky with any regularity. Experimentals as a group are a little more
risky than "storebought" airplanes, but the numbers seem to show that
RVs may be slightly safer or at least average. (or they may show I've
made bad assumptions....)
I think these numbers reflect the conservative design and forgiving
nature of the airplanes.
I applaud Jim Norman's call to try and identify the areas where we, as a
group, may be exposing ourselves to more than necessary risk.
There are several areas of design/handling/performance that I think
should be carefully watched:
RVs do have a fairly high sink rate when behind the power curve, like
most airplanes with a low aspect ratio. The same can be said of PA-28s,
if you're comparing them to 172s. They don't have nearly the sink rate
of many retractables (especially light twins). This is basically just
familiarization.
The RV series, with the possible exception of the taildragger -8, has
little to no aerodynamic stall warning. The stall is benign and easily
recovered, there just isn't much buffeting, etc. to warn the inattentive
pilot he's about to slide over the edge. This is true of most
homebuilts, but very few factory built airplanes. I believe (this
opinion is not shared by every lister) that _every_ RV should have some
type of stall warning/AOA device, independent of the pitot/static
system. This could be a simple and inexpensive piper type vane/switch
(see Tim Lewis's website) or a more elaborate system like Al M's LRI or
the proprietary systems AOA. Three of the six fatals over the last year
were almost certainly inadvertent stalls, and a fourth may have been.
It's possible, even likely, that these accidents could have been
prevented.
The RVs are very low drag, and pick up speed quickly when pointed
downhill. This makes them a little more demanding for some aerobatic
maneuvers, etc, but I can't recall any accidents related to this off the
top of my head.
I think the nosewheel strut is not the strongest in aviation (compared
to, for example, a c-150) and may be more demanding of proper technique
than the taildraggers. This isn't a big problem, but the loss of
control on landing/fender bender accident is at least as common in
nosewheel RVs as in the taildraggers, in spite of the fearsome
reputation of _all_ taildraggers.
I'll quit ranting now, and welcome any responses. If I've made any dumb
assumptions (likely) I'm sure someone will point them out. I will _not_
however, be anyone's "daisy" ;-)
James Freeman
N9TN reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulated terminal connectors |
Bert,
Both Didgikey and Mouser Electronics have not only these, but just about
anything else electrical or electonic.
www.digikey.com
www.mouser.com
-Don
RV8 NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
With respect to the LRI, (can't speak for the others) be careful here. I
know the LRI very well, and the patent (which these instructions are based
on) is not correct on how to make an LRI. It is only a patent on the idea
of differential pressure. There are some modifications that have to be made
to the guage and the probe in order for it to work properly. If you follow
these instructions, it will NOT be an LRI. It will not work the way an LRI
was intended to work. The LRI's have come down in price,($450) so for me,
it would be worth it to just buy one, with a lifetime warranty, and know
that it will work properly. Something as crucial as a gauge telling me that
my wing is not generating lift, is something I would not want to mess with.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: rolling your own LRI
>
> There is some information on rolling your own LRI on the net...
>
> Airsoob Angle of Attack Meter:
> http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm
>
> AOA Indicator for SA:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sonexbuilders/files/SA_AOA.pdf
>
> Make your own LRI Probes:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sonexbuilders/files/
>
> -Bill
> http://vondane.com/rv8a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antena question |
June 2002 Kitplanes, page 29 has a good article by Jim Weir about how to
assemble BNCs. I could copy it and email or snail mail it to you if you
can't find the issue.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
How in heavens do you people can connect the
bnc connectors to the pin..
I have ruinned six already, trying to follow
the step of tinn the cable first then sodder pin...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Reformatted - Food for Thought |
Folks,
I think this is a good time to remind everyone about the EAA Flight Advisor
program.
Many builders think that the only reason to use the program is cheaper insurance
and now that AVEMCO is gone, why bother? The answer is safety! We spend 5 or
more years building our RV's and do very little flying while we're doing it and
when the time comes to fly our new creations, our flying skills are about as
rusty as they've been since we learned to fly. So now we have a brand new
airplane (and probably no time in type) and our pilot skills are not as sharp as
they should be. This is one reason the EAA Flight Advisor program was started,
and since then homebuilt accidents have dropped considerably.
EAA's description of the program:
"Flight Advisors are EAA member-volunteers who can help you evaluate your own
flying skills. They won't give you "yes" or "no" on your flight abilities, but
help you develop guidelines for making your decision. If you need more
instruction in a certain type of airplane, a Flight Advisor can help you find
it. If you choose to have a test pilot fly your airplane instead, a Flight
Advisor can help you find and evaluate other pilots. Flight Advisors also have
the
resources of EAA available to assist you."
http://members.eaa.org/home/lookup/index.html
Please take advantage of this program, it's free and it saves lives.
I think the bottom line in all this discussion is KNOW YOUR AIRPLANE! You can
have all the most expensive geegaws made installed in the airplane and none of
them are going to help you if you don't KNOW YOUR AIRPLANE! Pay attention to
what it's telling you. You should be able to estimate your speed pretty close
just by the sound of the air going by and feel of of the controls. Go practice
stalls with the airspeed covered up, you'll learn a lot more than you will
watching the needle. Practice flying with the whole instrument panel covered and
you'll find out that you don't need the ball to tell where the rudder is - you
can feel it. Let the airplane talk to you directly, you'll be surprised at what
it has to say! My -6 will not just suddenly drop a wing and spin - it will warn
me way ahead of time - IF I'm listening. There's no way you can fly at 60 MPH
and not know that you're going VERY slow if you're paying attention to what the
controls are telling you.
Please don't become the next statistic.
Dave
EAA Flight Advisor and Technical Counselor
Charles Rowbotham wrote:
> First, we all strive for the best/perfectly constructed RV. However, we seem
> to have a more difficulty spending the time/dollarsevaluating ourselves.
> Everyone is capable of building and flying a safe aircraft. The key is
> attitude, a student mentality and tenacity to strive for perfection. You
> will notice that "strive for perfection" is the third item not the first.
> This only means that the other items have a higher priority for me.
>
> We all know that most of us do not fly enough during the building process
> and many of us are not 1000 hour pilots...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JhnstnIII(at)aol.com |
The Tampa tragedy certainly sounds like another stall or stall/spin accident,
even if mechanical problems preceded it.
A stall is caused by excessive angle of attack. The stall angle of attack
is constant for a given airfoil regardless of weight or speed. The angle of
attack controller is in your hand--it is the control stick. When you pull
the stick back, you increase the angle of attack. Pull too much, the wing
stalls. Doesn't matter if airplane is climbing, diving or turning. Perfect
example: a spin. Nose is well down, but stick is back and wing is stalled.
You will spin into the ground unless you summon the courage to push that
stick forward and un-stall the wing. (Hopefully, you have room to pull out
of the resulting dive.) Stall airspeeds vary with weight and g-loading (same
as weight). Better to think in terms of angle of attack and be conscious of
stick position than rely solely on the airspeed indicator. Personally, I
think a good angle of attack indicator should be required equipment in all
aircraft.
The wing is the thing. Learn to fly the wing and you can't go wrong. Like
Wolfgang Langewiesche says in Stick and Rudder: "Get rid at the outset of
the idea that the airplane is only an air-going sort of automobile. It
isn't. It may sound like one and smell like one, and it may have been
interior decorated to look like one; but the difference is--it goes on wings.
And a wing is an odd thing, strangely behaved, hard to understand, tricky to
handle." Those who fail to understand the wing will always be puzzled by how
an airplane behaves, and stand a good chance of killing themselves.
Wolfgang goes on to say: "The story of the Angle of Attack is in a way THE
theory of flight: if you had only 2 hours in which to explain the airplane to
a student pilot, this is what you would have to explain."
The sad thing is that every stall/spin accident is the result of unnecessary
ignorance about angle of attack. I too recommend Wolfgang's book to every
pilot. If you haven't read it, I hope you will. Fly safely. --LeRoy
Johnston, CFIG, Ohio, RV-6, wings and fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
Sorry Paul. I guess I just don't understand. Isn't the LRI basically a
differential pressure gauge? What modifications could/would be done to the
gauge other than the face plate? I guess a flow restrictor could be inserted
in one of the ports, but that would slow response time and probably
introduce error.
As far as the probe goes, there could be variations to the design. I think
several varieties could work. It's mostly a matter of proper calibration.
Just like airspeed, it's not necessarily the exact number, but where you are
in relation to the critical point. Unlike airspeed, the critical point
doesn't(shouldn't) change with the LRI(or a variation).
Ken
>
> With respect to the LRI, (can't speak for the others) be careful here. I
> know the LRI very well, and the patent (which these instructions are based
> on) is not correct on how to make an LRI. It is only a patent on the idea
> of differential pressure. There are some modifications that have
> to be made
> to the guage and the probe in order for it to work properly. If
> you follow
> these instructions, it will NOT be an LRI. It will not work the way an LRI
> was intended to work. The LRI's have come down in price,($450) so for me,
> it would be worth it to just buy one, with a lifetime warranty, and know
> that it will work properly. Something as crucial as a gauge
> telling me that
> my wing is not generating lift, is something I would not want to
> mess with.
>
> Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Kimmel" <chs-kimmels(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
Fellow listers,
Installed in the O-320 in my -6A are high compression (10-1) pistons. My
starter has been decidedly anemic in rotating the engine, and I am
interested to know if anyone has had a positive experience with one
particular brand of "Hi-Torque" starter or another. My starter has recently
failed, and if an upgrade is available now is the time. Looking for your
advice.
Steve Kimmel
N4357R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Standardization of flying techniques |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Standardization of flying techniques
>
> >These list conversations are great and we need them. I wonder though,
> >prepared, it could be helpful to everyone. I'm not smart enough to do it
> >alone, but there are many on the list who could. I think it important to
> >keep it as simple as possible. It might include references to other
> >resources to be used when the pilot is ready for them. It might even be
> >suitable as an primer for others who are called upon to critique a new or
> >recently acquired bird.
Kevin: I'm not thinking of books, circulars etc, of which there are many.
What I hoped for was a single sheet, perhaps like an envelope stuffer, that
would contain key points. The purpose would be to provide a minimum of the
most important information and to stimulate the recipient to seek more
detail. We can talk on the list about all of this but that is like
preaching to the choir. The challenge would be to identify those key points
and present them in an attention getting way. Perhaps what I suggest is not
practical but nothing else has worked so far.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
Yes, it is a differential pressure gauge, but there are some modifications
to make it more stable, and more accurate. If you don't do the required
modifications, the needle will not be stable, and will not function
properly. I won't go into the details of the modifications, because the
probe is sold by a friend of mine and fellow RV-Lister Al Mojzisik.
Also, take a look at the probe sometime. It is a pretty accurately machined
unit. Also, think about opportunity cost. Is it worth the many days of
work, hours of head scratching, buying the parts, and trial and error to get
it right? When these airplanes cost upwards of $60,000 or more to build,
$450 from the owner of the design isn't that much in my opinion. It's nice
piece of mind knowing that it works right, you have exact instructions that
you don't have to figure out by trial and error, you get a warranty, you
contribute to a fellow RV builder and aviation business, etc, etc. I could
think of many other reasons not to build your own LRI.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: rolling your own LRI
>
> Sorry Paul. I guess I just don't understand. Isn't the LRI basically a
> differential pressure gauge? What modifications could/would be done to the
> gauge other than the face plate? I guess a flow restrictor could be
inserted
> in one of the ports, but that would slow response time and probably
> introduce error.
>
> As far as the probe goes, there could be variations to the design. I think
> several varieties could work. It's mostly a matter of proper calibration.
> Just like airspeed, it's not necessarily the exact number, but where you
are
> in relation to the critical point. Unlike airspeed, the critical point
> doesn't(shouldn't) change with the LRI(or a variation).
>
> Ken
>
>
> >
> > With respect to the LRI, (can't speak for the others) be careful here.
I
> > know the LRI very well, and the patent (which these instructions are
based
> > on) is not correct on how to make an LRI. It is only a patent on the
idea
> > of differential pressure. There are some modifications that have
> > to be made
> > to the guage and the probe in order for it to work properly. If
> > you follow
> > these instructions, it will NOT be an LRI. It will not work the way an
LRI
> > was intended to work. The LRI's have come down in price,($450) so for
me,
> > it would be worth it to just buy one, with a lifetime warranty, and know
> > that it will work properly. Something as crucial as a gauge
> > telling me that
> > my wing is not generating lift, is something I would not want to
> > mess with.
> >
> > Paul Besing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ahman <ahmanrv4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antena question |
> June 2002 Kitplanes, page 29 has a good article by Jim Weir about how to
> assemble BNCs.
Jim Weir's kitplane articles are available on his site. The referenced
article can be found at:
http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/KP0206/KP0206.htm
Best regards,
Jim Ahman
RV-4, Empennage
BL-65 1938 TaylorCraft
VAA 7, President
http://www.vintage-aircraft-7.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
I had high compresson pistons, and the newer light weight Lycoming starter
from Bart Lalonde. It had plenty of torque to rotate the engine. It did
take alot of juice, meaning that the battery could drain easily if the
airplane wouldn't start for one reason or another. Nevertheless the
lightweight Lycoming starter performed fine with 10-1 pistons on an O-360.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kimmel" <chs-kimmels(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Installed in the O-320 in my -6A are high compression (10-1) pistons. My
> starter has been decidedly anemic in rotating the engine, and I am
> interested to know if anyone has had a positive experience with one
> particular brand of "Hi-Torque" starter or another. My starter has
recently
> failed, and if an upgrade is available now is the time. Looking for your
> advice.
>
> Steve Kimmel
> N4357R
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sjhdcl(at)kingston.net |
I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they installed
it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
This location should work for RV7A as well.
Steve
RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil" <Phil(at)camsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Tampa accident question????? |
Hello Group,
James Norman wrote:
"Scott's landing procedure was to push the prop control
all the way in, and keep the plane high and fast (100 MPH)... Compared to my
500+ hours in an Archer, this was very different. We stayed high, almost
1000 feet and made a short pattern (short downwind, short, base, and short
final). Then we almost coasted (fell?) down to the runway rather than flying
it to the runway. The VASI lights??? Too high to even be white. Again, my
total of 10 or less RV landings do not allow me to discuss the correct way
to land an RV, but this actually scared me. I rationalized this in my mind
at the time that the short wings, CS prop, etc were very different from the
Archer... However, I never get scared of landing the Archer, and this made
me very un-easy. It didn't seem like we flew the plane the last part of the
pattern, but rather that we rode in it while it coasted on its way down..."
First of all Thank you Jim for taking the time to observe and to put on
paper
your thoughts and observations.
My question is about the the above infomation (The landing procedure of
Scott).
The picture I see is Scott trying to land the airplane like a fighter jet
landing
on a carrier.
If this was his procedure is it a correct one? By my training, NO!
Best regards with a tearful eye,
Phil Johnston
Executive Director of Internal Affairs, FCT
CAMS, Inc.
495 Village Park Drive
Powell, Ohio 43065
614.433.0415
614.433.0416
Phil(at)camsnet.com
RV-9A Kit Builder # 90329 www.vansaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
While I would like to install an AOA probe of some kind in my -7 when I
build the wings, you have to be about the 20th person who's said "what's
another $500 when your plane will cost $60000 anyway". If I bought
every one of those "what's another" $500 items, it would add up to
$10000 in "well, you're spending $60K anyway" money, or 1/6th the cost
of the plane (or 1/7th, if you consider that it's *on top of* the $60K).
So far, they've all been items that I have yet to see in *any* aircraft
i've flown in to date. Including RV's.
Maybe these planes wouldn't be so damn expensive if we weren't dropping
$500 every time someone breaks wind in our direction. Personally, i'd
be a lot happier if we approached the "open source" model in aircraft
design... Surely someone here on the list has the knowledge to
independently design an AOA indicator, and make the plans available.
Then we could all go build our own. I mean, what are we talking about
here? A bar of aluminum with two holes in it, two hoses up to the
cockpit, and a gauge. What would that cost *you* in materials?
My apologies to the lister (or listers) who's trying to sell these, but
it irks me that every time someone comes up with a good idea for an RV,
they seem to want to get rich off it by extracting $500 from each of the
3000 builders of RV's and pocketing $1.5M.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong... And may be quite happy
to recant it if I come up with a $500 idea of my own... 8-)
-RB4
---------
Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
-----------------------------
Stop dreaming... Start flying
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>Yes, it is a differential pressure gauge, but there are some modifications
>to make it more stable, and more accurate. If you don't do the required
>modifications, the needle will not be stable, and will not function
>properly. I won't go into the details of the modifications, because the
>probe is sold by a friend of mine and fellow RV-Lister Al Mojzisik.
>
>Also, take a look at the probe sometime. It is a pretty accurately machined
>unit. Also, think about opportunity cost. Is it worth the many days of
>work, hours of head scratching, buying the parts, and trial and error to get
>it right? When these airplanes cost upwards of $60,000 or more to build,
>$450 from the owner of the design isn't that much in my opinion. It's nice
>piece of mind knowing that it works right, you have exact instructions that
>you don't have to figure out by trial and error, you get a warranty, you
>contribute to a fellow RV builder and aviation business, etc, etc. I could
>think of many other reasons not to build your own LRI.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
>Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
>http://www.kitlog.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
I tried the link suggested below and it is "administrative info" - no links
to data. I fished around and found the link that lets you pick a site, and
it brings up that ASOS info: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/osd/portal.shtml
David Carter
--- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: WX Info
>
> > Once upon a time there was a web site providing real time WX data from
> ATIS,
> > AWOS observations. It had outline maps of the states with links to
various
> > airports. Very handy for XC planning.
> >
> > I lost the URL. If it rings a bell with anybody, would much appreciate
the
> > URL. I think it was an FAA site but can't find it on their home page.
> >
> > Don Diehl
> > RV-4 N28EW
> > Bremerton WA
>
>
> http://www.faa.gov/asos/asos.htm
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8 N558RL
> Camas, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
| From: | "Kendall R. Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
Points well taken Paul.
So I don't come across as making an argument just for the sake of
arguing, let me explain my reasons for attempting a Lift Reserver/angle
of attack type indicator.
The ones I have seen so far are either klunky, expensive, have poor
resolution or some combination of those. Like many things available for
experimental planes none of these devices suit my needs/desires. When
that happens I research and decide if I might be able to build something
better. The BMA/Dynon debate is an example. Neither one of these devices
is exactly what I want, but I don't think I would attempt building a
similar device because of the complexity.
One idea I had recently was to come up with a way to eliminate some of
the wires going to a trim servo motor and still maintain the position
indication. The idea works with only three wires going to the servo, two
for power, one for indication, but... I had already used six components
and the design wasn't quite tweeked yet. It didn't seem to be worth the
extra components just to eliminate the two wires so I abandoned the
idea.
Another idea was to write some type of program/spreadsheet for a
builder's log. I thought about that for about 3 milliseconds after I saw
the Kitlog software. I bought it immediately and it's great.
The point is that I like to experiment with things like this, things
that don't affect the airworthiness of the aircraft. I wouldn't
arbitrarily change something on the airplane because it "suited my
needs/desires". I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I do have
experience/knowledge in electronics and fluid dynamics.
Back to the LRI/AOA. I think this could be made better without spending
$1500 that PSS wants for their AOA Pro. I'm also not quite sure about
the durability of their sensor (my opinion). I like the simple design of
the LRI probe. One immediate change I can see is integrating the
standard AS pitot port into this probe. Then you would only have one
probe in the slipstream. The other idea since I'm an electronics gadget
guy is to use a seminconductor sensor and electronic display as well as
an aural warning, which is one of the best features of the PSS AOA. The
electronic sensing would also allow calibration without having to
reposition the probe. I think this is the weakest point of the LRI. Yes
it adds complexity and point of failure, but I think it's worth the
extra utility.
Rob just covered my other reason for building my own "$500" device so I
won't repeat that.
Ken
Yes, it is a differential pressure gauge, but there are some
modifications
to make it more stable, and more accurate. If you don't do the required
modifications, the needle will not be stable, and will not function
properly. I won't go into the details of the modifications, because the
probe is sold by a friend of mine and fellow RV-Lister Al Mojzisik.
Also, take a look at the probe sometime. It is a pretty accurately
machined
unit. Also, think about opportunity cost. Is it worth the many days of
work, hours of head scratching, buying the parts, and trial and error to
get
it right? When these airplanes cost upwards of $60,000 or more to
build,
$450 from the owner of the design isn't that much in my opinion. It's
nice
piece of mind knowing that it works right, you have exact instructions
that
you don't have to figure out by trial and error, you get a warranty, you
contribute to a fellow RV builder and aviation business, etc, etc. I
could
think of many other reasons not to build your own LRI.
Paul Besing
>
> Sorry Paul. I guess I just don't understand. Isn't the LRI basically a
> differential pressure gauge? What modifications could/would be done to
the
> gauge other than the face plate? I guess a flow restrictor could be
inserted
> in one of the ports, but that would slow response time and probably
> introduce error.
>
> As far as the probe goes, there could be variations to the design. I
think
> several varieties could work. It's mostly a matter of proper
calibration.
> Just like airspeed, it's not necessarily the exact number, but where
you
are
> in relation to the critical point. Unlike airspeed, the critical point
> doesn't(shouldn't) change with the LRI(or a variation).
>
> Ken
>
>
> >
> > With respect to the LRI, (can't speak for the others) be careful
here.
I
> > know the LRI very well, and the patent (which these instructions are
based
> > on) is not correct on how to make an LRI. It is only a patent on
the
idea
> > of differential pressure. There are some modifications that have
> > to be made
> > to the guage and the probe in order for it to work properly. If
> > you follow
> > these instructions, it will NOT be an LRI. It will not work the way
an
LRI
> > was intended to work. The LRI's have come down in price,($450) so
for
me,
> > it would be worth it to just buy one, with a lifetime warranty, and
know
> > that it will work properly. Something as crucial as a gauge
> > telling me that
> > my wing is not generating lift, is something I would not want to
> > mess with.
> >
> > Paul Besing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
> Installed in the O-320 in my -6A are high compression (10-1) pistons. My
> starter has been decidedly anemic in rotating the engine, and I am
> interested to know if anyone has had a positive experience with one
> particular brand of "Hi-Torque" starter or another. My starter has
recently
> failed, and if an upgrade is available now is the time. Looking for your
> advice.
>
> Steve Kimmel
> N4357R
O-360s can have either a 149 or 124(?) starter ring. Obviously the 149 tooth
is a different ratio that makes it easier for the starter. Common wisdom is
to always get the 149 tooth pair with a high compression installation. I
don't know if these rings are interchangeable with the O-320 but it sounds
like it would be worth investigating.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 0-350 c/s, 236 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OAT location |
> I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
> answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
installed
> it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
>
> This location should work for RV7A as well.
>
> Steve
> RV7A
Steve,
The only way you can be assured of an accurate reading, uneffected by engine
heat of some sort, is to mount it out on the wing. That's where I have mine
and it works great. The most common location is in the NACA vent on the
fuse, but you will get heat bleeding out of the cowl joint, most guys report
about a 10 degree boost as a result. Yes, mounting it out under the wing
takes a longer wire with a few more holes and snap bushings, but in my
opinion worth it.
http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/Dscn0029.jpg
Randy Lervold
RV-8
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | DigiTrak Initial Test Report |
Hi all,
I just installed my TruTrak "DigiTrak" auto pilot (that I ordered at
Oshkosh) this week and test flew it last night. I thought I'd give a
quick report with a more detailed report later once I live with it
for awhile.
Background:
My RV-6 has 570 hours of non AP use. I've been lusting after a wing
leveler for awhile (for convience and safety) and while out of my
mind at Oshkosh, I decided to jump in.
A couple of reasons I decided on the TruTrak were:
1) Comparative cost to Navaid.
2) Quick delivery time.
3) Touted as having better performance in turbulence.
4) TruTrak's upgrade policy. (The will upgrade you for only the
difference of the unit your choosing to upgrade to. This was a biggie
because I would like to someday have altitude hold capability).
5) Wanted to try something different. (This may always come back to bite you).
The only drawback I see compared to Navaid is that it doesn't track a
course. (If I were TruTrak, I'd be working on that, and you never
know, they might be). This isn't a big drawback in my mind if you can
manually sync up GPS Direct Track and the heading of the Display.
I did the mechanical installation of the servo one day, and the
wiring stuff over the next two evenings (with help from my father).
I decided to put the servo out on the wing tip and attach it to the
aileron bellcrank via a pushrod. I used parts from Van's stock
aileron pushrod assy to create the pushrod. Easy to get and didn't
have to reengineer much. (The reason I installed the servo in the
wingtip was only for ease of installation and serviceability. The
suggested installation has the servo in the same bay as the aileron
belcrank, and while it looks like it would work, access would be very
difficult, so I chose the wingtip. I paid a small weight penalty for
the added weight of the pushrod, but I also designed a lighter
bracket to attach the servo to the wing tip rib). I'll put up some
pictures when I have the chance.
I had to call Andrew at TruTrak to confirm the pin output of my
Garmin 250XL for the GPS info that the DigiTrak needs. I faxed him
some of the pages of the Garmin installation and he called me right
back to confirm that it was Pin 19 that needed to be used. Great
service. Thanks Andrew.
I finished the installation yesterday and turned on the main power
for a smoke check. No smoke....So far, so good. Next came the set
up of the DigiTrak. 4 simple tasks described in the installation
manual. Even though I had the GPS up and locked on, I wasn't getting
an indication from the DigiTrak that it was. Hmmm....Oh, I forgot to
set up the GPS to output to that channel. No big deal, went to the
set up page on the Garmin, changed output 2 from OFF to Positioning,
exit, and presto....DigiTrak was happily receiving a signal. (Also
for an installation note for others using a Garmin 250XL, it uses a
9600 baud rate).
With the ground set up complete, I fired up the RV and headed off to
the practice area. I hit the ON button and a track heading appeared
on DigiTrak display, and it held the wings level. That's a good
start. There is some set of the devise that required while inflight
that has to do with servo override torque and turbulence settings
that I got set initially. Will play with those a little more when I
find some good turbulence (I love the note in the manual "DigiTrak
LOVES turulence"), but that will come later.
Next was a quick test of the heading hold. I manually synced up a
GPS course on the GPS to the display on the DigiTrak head. It held
that very well. If you watch the GPS ground track, you see a very
mild change from one degree left, to one degree right over, maybe, a
20 second period. Nothing you can feel in the airplane, but you see
it on the GPS display. The next long trip will give me a feel for how
well it holds over long periods. Very well, I suspect.
Next was a test of the turn command. Press the Left or Right button
for 1.5 seconds and it commands a standard rate turn in that
direction until you again press a button or disengage it with the
stick switch. When you tell the AP to stop the turn, it rolls out
and holds that new heading. Pretty cool.
On test was to command the turn, trim the elevator and see what
happened. It just went round and round and round....5 times. Never
got confused, as some might have suggested. I timed a few of these
and one was exactly 2 minutes, another was 10 sec different. I need
the timing tests just to see how consistent it it. Worked the same
left or right.
Next I got it set on a heading, then turned the GPS off. The heading
display changed to 3 dashed lines indicating it wasn't getting any
track info. It happily held a heading and I didn't see any drift on
the compass for a minute or two. That's cool.
I set a course for home, set the DigiTrak and left it alone while I
watched for traffic and generally twiddled my fingers.....Hmmmm, so
this is what Auto Pilots are all about....Pretty cool.
(Unfortunately, I don't have any time behind a Navaid so I can't
compare the two).
That's about all I have right now. It's working as advertised and
I'm looking forward to trying it out on a long trip to learn more
about it and see how it works in turbulence. I report again when I
get a good feel for how it's working. (So when was Las Cruses
again???)
Let me know if anybody has any particular tests they want me to run,
and I'll see what you can do.
Laird RV-6
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulated terminal connectors |
Bert: I have been buying most of mine from Mouser Electronics
(www.mouser.com) but I'm pretty certain Wicks and Spruce carry them also.
You want the ones called PIDG terminals to get the aircraft type.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
> I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
> answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
installed
> it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
>
> This location should work for RV7A as well.
>
> Steve
> RV7A
Steve,
I mounted mine to the fuselage bottom skin that extends over the root rib of
the wing. It seems to be accurate.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 65 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges |
This is a note to builders who haven't completed their wings yet...I'm
building my flaps and hit the point in the instructions where it says you
can avoid countersinking the flap hinge by dimpling the skin and
countersinking the spar. Makes perfect sense.
The little burble I hit had to do with the fact that I already *dimpled*
both the bottom wing skin rear edge and the *flap brace* as well. The
result is that I'm going to have to machine countersink the holes on the
forward half of the flap hinge. No big deal, but I was wondering if that
would cause a structural issue...i.e. with the rivet bucktails not having as
much material to grip or whatever. As it turns out, I called Van's and they
said it was perfectly fine. But...I would rather have avoided this so I
wouldn't have to countersink the hinge.
So in case you haven't hit this point yet, you might want to consider
machine countersinking the flap brace holes instead. That will mirror the
method on the flap and you can avoid countersinking the hinge.
Just something to consider. Hope this helps...
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (flaps)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | DigiTrak Initial Test Report |
Laird,
Did you notice any change to the "feel of the controls" from the servo? Do
the ailerons move as freely as before?
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 65 hours
Hi all,
I just installed my TruTrak "DigiTrak" auto pilot (that I ordered at
Oshkosh) this week and test flew it last night. I thought I'd give a
quick report with a more detailed report later once I live with it
for awhile.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges |
I had to countersink my hinge stock in my RV-6.
I had to drop the flaps WAY over the white arc during one little
emergency I had (something about an unwanted feathered passenger).
Flaps are still attached...... ;-)
Laird
>
>This is a note to builders who haven't completed their wings yet...I'm
>building my flaps and hit the point in the instructions where it says you
>can avoid countersinking the flap hinge by dimpling the skin and
>countersinking the spar. Makes perfect sense.
>
>The little burble I hit had to do with the fact that I already *dimpled*
>both the bottom wing skin rear edge and the *flap brace* as well. The
>result is that I'm going to have to machine countersink the holes on the
>forward half of the flap hinge. No big deal, but I was wondering if that
>would cause a structural issue...i.e. with the rivet bucktails not having as
>much material to grip or whatever. As it turns out, I called Van's and they
>said it was perfectly fine. But...I would rather have avoided this so I
>wouldn't have to countersink the hinge.
>
>So in case you haven't hit this point yet, you might want to consider
>machine countersinking the flap brace holes instead. That will mirror the
>method on the flap and you can avoid countersinking the hinge.
>
>Just something to consider. Hope this helps...
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (flaps)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location |
If you have inspection plates on the bottom of your wings, put it on in the
inboard plate...
-Bill
http://www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Harrill" <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: RE: RV-List: OAT location
> I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
> answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
installed
> it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
>
> This location should work for RV7A as well.
>
> Steve
> RV7A
Steve,
I mounted mine to the fuselage bottom skin that extends over the root rib of
the wing. It seems to be accurate.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 65 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges |
Cool, thanks for the real-life confirmation. Hope I never have to put mine
to the test like that. 8
)
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laird Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: way to avoid countersinking the flap hinges
>
> I had to countersink my hinge stock in my RV-6.
>
> I had to drop the flaps WAY over the white arc during one little
> emergency I had (something about an unwanted feathered passenger).
>
> Flaps are still attached...... ;-)
>
> Laird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Web Site Change... |
Please note the new URL of my web site: http://www.vondane.com
Please update your bookmarks...
Thanks! -Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | DigiTrak Initial Test Report |
>
>Laird,
>
>Did you notice any change to the "feel of the controls" from the servo? Do
>the ailerons move as freely as before?
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV-6, 65 hours
Ken,
Below is a reply I sent to Dan Checkoway about some questions he had.
I think it answers it.
I forwarded some photos of my installation to Dan. He said he'll
post them on his site and will advise when there up.
>Thanks for the writeup about the DigiTrak. Got a few questions for you...
>
>1) Did you notice whether there's a "remote deactivate" provision, i.e. for
>a momentary switch on the stick? Just curious if there's an easy way to
>quickly switch the sucker off.
There is a defeat switch on the stick. I don't have that installed
(will live with it awhile before I decide if I need it).
>
>2) Was there any noticeable difference in control friction, i.e. moving the
>stick around on the ground with the unit off?
There is a SLIGHT friction in the servo that you can feel on the
ground, but it's not noticeable AT ALL in flight.
>
>3) How's the breakout stick force when it's active...i.e. the force needed
>to override the autopilot in an emergency? Is there a clutch of some sort
>that gives way?
One of the adjustments in the unit is to set breakout force of the
servo. You can override the servo at anytime. If the servo were to
seize, there are shear pins in the servo arm.
Anything else???
Laird
>
>Thanks again,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (flaps)
<http://www.rvproject.com>http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DigiTrak Initial Test Report |
> I forwarded some photos of my installation to Dan. He said he'll
> post them on his site and will advise when there up.
They're up on the site now:
http://www.rvproject.com/trutrak.html
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
Is anyone out there doing spins in a 6?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
>My apologies to the lister (or listers) who's trying to sell these, but
it irks me that every time someone comes up with a good idea for an RV,
they seem to want to get rich off it by extracting $500 from each of the
3000 builders of RV's and pocketing $1.5M.<
Excuse me, Rob, But guys like Al Mojizik et. al. are certainly *not* getting
"rich" off of marketing their ideas.
I challenge you to try to start mass producing an item, especially one
designed for aviation use, and not incur some rather steep expenses. All
the raw materials required for a certain product may not cost that much, but
all the BS that leads up to turning them into an aviation product costs
money.
If you feel comfortable building things like the LRI and would be able to
trust it in use, then go for it. But guys like Al make it easier for us
guys who do not have the time or expertise to "roll our own". No, I don't
run out and buy every gismo that comes out for inclusion in my RV, but I am
darn glad that I have the option to get such things premade.
No flame intended Rob, just don't like to see guys taking heat for providing
a service to those of us that are less mechanically inclined.
DNA
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
>O-360s can have either a 149 or 124(?) starter ring. Obviously the 149
tooth is a different ratio that makes it easier for >the starter. Common
wisdom is to always get the 149 tooth pair with a high compression
installation. I don't know if these >rings are interchangeable with the
O-320 but it sounds like it would be worth investigating.
>Randy Lervold
Please help me on this one. I thought that the 149 and 124 tooth
starter ring were the same diameter and this was only a pitch change in
the gear spacing. The 149 and 124 use corresponding different starter
gears also. I don't see how this will change the gear ratio.
Ken
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Any tips on bending FL-706B? |
The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B is supposed to be bent
6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will snug into the angle
created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle.
Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute force? Any tricks?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (flaps)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Any tips on bending FL-706B? |
In a message dated 8/23/02 7:42:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
<< The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B is supposed to be bent
6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will snug into the angle
created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle.
Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute force? Any tricks?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (flaps)
http://www.rvproject.com >>
Yup, vise and brute force. Wait until you need to bend the hefty angles that
bolt to the fuselage and serve as the inboard mounts for the fuel tanks. BIG
hammer, BIG vise... A helluva' way to build an airplane. ;-)
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Question |
I've found that the easiest coax connector to install is that sold by B&C
www.aeroelectric.com
It's a crimp type connector. No solder required. You do need a crimp tool.
Gabe A Ferrer (RV6, "final electrical wiring")
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aircraft Technical Book Company <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | inexpensive RV-6 for sale |
I'm posting this note for a friend, Art Wilson who is looking to sell his RV-6.
I've
flown this plane a couple times. While its not going to win any awards at Oshkosh,
it is
a good solid plane, flies well and straight, and is definitely worth a look for
someone
wanting to get into an inexpensive RV. Call Art directly at the number or e-mail
him at
the address below
Andy
RV-6, N151DF, 493 TT, 0-320 D2J TT2001 hours with logs and oil analysis, always
hangared. Original owner licensed in 1992.
$45,000. Located at Granby, Colorado. Call (970) 887-2283 or e-mail
awilson(at)winterparkweb.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fletcher Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location |
Steve,
In my opinion the OAT probe should be mounted out in the wing, about
mid-span, on the underside (shaded). On my RV-6 I mounted mine on the
bellcrank access cover with an adequate pigtail for servicing. I have found
it to be very accurate here. On the contrary, on my RV-4 I mounted it on
the fuselage side underneath the cheek extension aft of the firewall. I
have found this location to give high readings. One, I think the prop blast
affects accuracy, two, you're getting heat soaking from both the engine and
(in the winter) from cabin heat.
Hope this helps,
Pat Hatch
RV-4 Flying
RV-6 Flying
Vero Beach, FL
>From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: OAT location
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:39:12 -0400
>
>
>I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
>answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
>installed
>it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
>
>This location should work for RV7A as well.
>
>Steve
>RV7A
>
>
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hrs TT
0-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, Flying
0-360, Hartzell C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Hi torque starters-hi compression pistons |
The Lyc. starter gears are 149 tooth and 122 tooth. The 149 tooth is larger
diameter,which gives it a lower ratio= easier cranking.
My O-320 has 122 teeth and the battery would die if I didn't get it started
in 10-12 revolutions. I got an odyssey battery (I used the PC 925 - BIG) ,
and now I can crank until I get ashamed of treating my Toyota starter that
way. I had to learn hot starting technique , so I did a lot of cranking. I
love that odyssey battery-I put the Gel-Cel in my lawn tractor.
FWIW , RV-4 , N1191X ,
Bob n' Lu Olds
Charleston,Arkansas
oldsfolks(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location |
I have NASA outside air vents on the fuselage just behind the firewall.
Mounted the OAT probe just inside the left one and it was easy to run the wire
to the instrument. Confirmed its accuracy with a little stick on
thermometer temporarily on the windshield base, Seems to be accurate enough these
last four years.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill VonDane
Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT location
If you have inspection plates on the bottom of your wings, put it on in the
inboard plate...
-Bill
http://www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Harrill" <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: RE: RV-List: OAT location
> I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
> answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
installed
> it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
>
> This location should work for RV7A as well.
>
> Steve
> RV7A
Steve,
I mounted mine to the fuselage bottom skin that extends over the root rib of
the wing. It seems to be accurate.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 65 hours
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location |
Steve:
I agree. In addition to my 8A I also have owned a Grumman Tiger for 25 years.
With the Tiger I found that not only is the probe affected by engine heat if
mounted on the fuselage behind the firewall, but also it is affected by
sunlight. I solved both problems in the Tiger and the 8A by mounting the probe
in one of the access panels under the wing. This way it is never exposed to the
sun (well, maybe for a second or two now and then...) and is away from the
exhaust and engine heat. It works.
Bill Marvel
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> > I know this is probably in the archives but I couldn't find a definitive
> > answer. Can someone flying RV6A with a OAT probe tell me where they
> installed
> > it (assuming the location is accurate of course).
> >
> > This location should work for RV7A as well.
> >
> > Steve
> > RV7A
>
> Steve,
> The only way you can be assured of an accurate reading, uneffected by engine
> heat of some sort, is to mount it out on the wing. That's where I have mine
> and it works great. The most common location is in the NACA vent on the
> fuse, but you will get heat bleeding out of the cowl joint, most guys report
> about a 10 degree boost as a result. Yes, mounting it out under the wing
> takes a longer wire with a few more holes and snap bushings, but in my
> opinion worth it.
> http://www.rv-8.com/Pictures/Dscn0029.jpg
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8
> www.rv-8.com
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
Al:
Well said. I take my hat off to those of you who put your intellect, money and
integrity on the line to innovate new products from new ideas. As consumers,
all of us have the choice to buy or not to buy any item as we alone see fit.
But if the product did not exist, that choice would not either.
Bill Marvel
> I got involved with the LRI because I wanted to make this instrument
> available to ALL general aviation pilots/aircraft from a reputable company
> that can supply the instrument and back it up with honesty and integrity
> and make sure that ALL those that purchase it are satisfied with their
> purchase and my company, InAir Instruments LLC. Thats it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
socal-rvlist(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Re: Tow Bar for 8A |
Rick:
Good timing. Just got back home from my 8A trip a few hours ago.
The guy who made the tow bar is Glen Berringer and his office number is 310 322
1627. I made up a full size mock up from 3/8 inch copper tube and he made the
actual item based on the dimensions taken from that mock up. I have used mine
many times and it works great. It is made of solid aluminum 2024T3 rod and has
a single pivot point. It operates like an "ice tong" and grips the nose fork
via the two studs that Van provides.
The bar stows against the firewall in the forward baggage compartment and was
designed to be just long enough to allow the baggage door to close. I have
owned Grummans for 25 years and am well aware of the difficulties of pushing
backwards an airplane with an free castoring nosewheel. This tow bar solves
that problem very simply.
I will call Glen tomorrow and let him know that some listers may contact him
regarding getting towbars made. At this point he knows nothing about it. I
have no stake in this whatsoever, so please feel free to call him and make
whatever arrangements you would like. The tow bar is simple, light and works
very well.
Bill Marvel
Rick Jory wrote:
> Bill, just a reminder. Any more data re: a tow bar? Thanks,
> Rick Jory
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bmarvel(at)cox.net>
> To: Rick Jory
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Tow Bar for 8A
>
> > X-User: bmarvel
> > Message-Id: <20020813203006.F25106676C(at)texas3.legendum.com>
> > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:30:06 +0000 (GMT)
> > Return-Path: nobody(at)texas3.legendum.com
> FILETIME=[4DC32F90:01C24305]
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Here is a message for you from http://web2mail.com
> > The easy way to read and send POP email on the web
> > --------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Rick--
> > I just had one custom made of 2024T3 rod and it works great. Also, it
> fits perfectly against the firewall
> > in the forward baggage compartment. It cost $50 and I'll be happy to tell
> you who did it in a couple of weeks.
> > Am out of town now and don't have access to phone numbers. I know Glen
> has made two so far.
> >
> > Bill Marvel
> >
> > >
> > > Can someone steer me to a tow bar that works relatively well with an 8A?
> > > Thanks.
> > > Rick Jory
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow Flight/Landing Speeds/LRI/ETC |
John:
> John at Salida, CO (72-yrs and still flying, and hoping to keep doing so
> for another 15 or so !)
I flew over your place today via Monarch Pass on the way from Kansas City to Los
Angeles in my 8A. Just keep on flying, pardner. 72 is young. My dad is 80
and my mom 86 and they truck along in their 150 HP Grumman AA1A all over
everywhere. Mom did a 3G break with me in the 8A on an overhead approach to IXD
in Kansas City and said, "whee, that was fun!" As Yogi said, "it ain't over
'til it's over."
Bill Marvel
>
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Lawson <jwlawson(at)hargray.com> |
| Subject: | OAT location/type |
Since we're on the subject...what kind of OAT (gauge and probe) have you fellas
bought?
John
RV-6 (sllllllllllowwwwwwwwww build due to work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
David-
Re: "As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the primary
cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight into the pitot
tube at high AOA),..."
One of the several reasons I chose a short mast pitot tube on a Gretz mount
is that the pitot pressure orifice is sufficiently far back along the wing
chord and close to the wing skin that the local relative wind should always
be essentially parallel to the wing skin / pitot axis. If memory serves,
the Cessna pitot tubes tend to be mounted relatively forward along the
chord, perhaps inducing the errrors you speak of....
Glen
-8 QB, fuse upside down
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arthur Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: [CB-750] plastic welding from pepboys] |
This might be of interest. I read it on a motorcycle list.
neko do wrote:
> hey guys, well I was at pepboys yesterday looking for some epoxy to fix a
> broken accent piece on my bike, I find this 2 part mix called plastic weld,
> so I'm like what the hell. take it home try it and al first I thought it
> wouldn't really work, but after about 15 min. I was like "no S#@t." and
> after an hour I started to sand and repaint it, good as new, so I start
> working on my side panel all thats left now is painting. so I'm thinking how
> stron could this stuff really be. so I have some left over scraps of plastic
> so I break one in half, use the stuff to put it back together and then flex
> it every which way to see if it will break apart, well it did break, but not
> where I glued it but about 2 inches away from it, so I found a new best
> friend, all for $3.99 a tube. with stuff like this out there I see no point
> in actually melting fairings back together. anyone else ever use this
> product.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/3liolB/TM
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from CB-750 send Email to:
> cb-750-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cb-750
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ski2001a(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
List,
While we are on the subject of antennas I would like to know if anyone has
plans for the internal wing tip antennas like the ones I have seen in the
ACS catalog. The ones I have seen look like they would be very simple to
construct out of aluminum strips. It's the length and shape that are
critical. Anyone done this?
Tom
RV8 Fastback
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid installation |
Who out there has installed a Navaid with a GPS Garmin Pilot III ? How was the
GPS connected? Did you buy a plug from Garmin? The wiring diagram from Navaid
Shows only one data wire assuming the ground is the airframe. I already have
my servo mounted on the wing tip but the Head hasn't been delivered yet. I'm
trying to round up all the hardware before it arr/explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm flying to Albequerque on Sept 18 for a reunion of Hump Pilots (some
of you don't know what that is). At first I was going to stay for 5 days at ABQ
but I have heard that Double Eagle is nice also. Seems a little
distant from town though. Is there transportation to town? I would appreciate
some comments from those who live in the area.
I am one of the youngest Hump Pilots remaining since I lied about my age and
joined up at 16(almost 17).I am now 77 and have been flying my RV-6 for 4 years.
Just came back from Sacramento to Sapphire NC in June After giving my grand
daughter away in marriage. She said" Oh Grandpa' you can really dance"
Wonder what the young folks think we did in Cadets
on Saturday night in Long Beach. Gene Williams.Get more from the Web.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Seat Belt Anchor Edge Distances |
When I Layout the seatbelt anchors to the longerons according to the
dimensions on the drawings there does not seem to be enough edge
distance between the center of the holes and the inside of the
longerons. I guess I can move the anchors further outside to get the
edge clearance but they may have to be gound a little to clear the top
skin, or I can just go with the dimensions in the plans.
What say ye experts?
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved)
http://www.myrv7.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location/type |
John:
I bought the Davtron 301C which reads in Centigrade. It just happened to fit a
space in my
panel perfectly. If I had to do it again, I would probably get one that reads
in F or C
with the flip of a switch. Now and then that would be convenient.
Bill Marvel
John Lawson wrote:
>
> Since we're on the subject...what kind of OAT (gauge and probe) have you fellas
bought?
>
> John
> RV-6 (sllllllllllowwwwwwwwww build due to work)
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location/type |
John,
I'm using the Davtron M-655. It has 5 functions OAT (F),OAT (C), pressure altitude,density
altitude and voltage. I just had to send it in for a minor problem and they turned
it
around in 24 hours and I had it back in less than a week - for FREE! (It's more
than 4
years old) It's one of those Items that I would buy again if I needed to.
Dave -6 So Cal
John Lawson wrote:
>
> Since we're on the subject...what kind of OAT (gauge and probe) have you fellas
bought?
>
> John
> RV-6 (sllllllllllowwwwwwwwww build due to work)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
Tom:
Since I built my 8A at Torrance airport, I had the opportunity to have the
antenna designer and manuafcturer, Bob Archer, come down to see my airplane.
He lives in Torrance.
Bob got his experience designing deep space probe antennas and I will tell you
this is the blackest of black arts. For the cost of one of his antennas, I
would make no effort to try and design one myself. Bob is a genuine antenna
guru and emphasizes the importance of following his installation instructions
exactly. Even minor deviations can have unseen effects.
As to my installation, I have his VOR/GS antenna in my right wingtip along
with his marker "antenna." He told me the latter was so simple he would not
even sell me one -- just told me how to make it. It is a strip of aluminum
sheet of any thickness a half inch wide and three feet long. It is bonded to
the lower inside surface of the fiberglass wingtip three inches away from the
metal edge of the wing and parallel to it. Only the coax center connector is
attached to the antenna; the shield is just trimmed away and covered with
shrink tube. It works fine. In fact, Bob says that with a marker antenna
down low and close to the transmitter, you cannot make it NOT work!
In the left wingtip I have his com antenna as com 2. Com 1 is a bent whip on
the belly.
For performance, I get VOR stations almost 100 miles away. However, you do
not get the audio until maybe 60 or so for station ID. The glideslope works
fine from any distance you would need for making an ILS approach.
The com antenna is not as good because it does not have much vertical rise --
only the distance from the bottom of the wingtip to the top. However, I find
it works OK out to about 50 miles. I use it for ATIS, monitoring 121.5 and
for a backup in case com 1 fails. I have used the wingtip antenna talking to
center now and then for comparison and they all say it is readable but a
little scratchy. To me, the benefit of burying my nav, glideslope, com 2 and
marker antennas in the wingtips is a significant one.
Bill Marvel
Ski2001a(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> List,
> While we are on the subject of antennas I would like to know if anyone has
> plans for the internal wing tip antennas like the ones I have seen in the
> ACS catalog. The ones I have seen look like they would be very simple to
> construct out of aluminum strips. It's the length and shape that are
> critical. Anyone done this?
> Tom
> RV8 Fastback
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any tips on bending FL-706B? |
a five pound hammer helps along with a vise large enough to hold it.
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/23/02 7:42:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
>
> << The flap inboard end reinforcement bracket FL-706B is supposed to be bent
> 6.3 degrees, according to the plans, so that it will snug into the angle
> created by the inboard rib and the FL-706A angle.
>
> Any tips on how to make that bend? A vise and brute force? Any tricks?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (flaps)
> http://www.rvproject.com >>
>
> Yup, vise and brute force. Wait until you need to bend the hefty angles that
> bolt to the fuselage and serve as the inboard mounts for the fuel tanks. BIG
> hammer, BIG vise... A helluva' way to build an airplane. ;-)
>
> Kyle Boatright
> 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
> Kennesaw, GA
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location/type |
In a message dated 8/24/2002 7:51:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bmarvel(at)cox.net writes:
> I bought the Davtron 301C which reads in Centigrade.
Actually, it reads in Celsius. Centigrade is long defunct.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 560hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
There are simple plans for this in the AeroElectric Connection book. I
would scan them in and post them on my web site if I didn't feel like that
undermined AeroElectric's business. 8
)
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ski2001a(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Antenna question
>
> List,
> While we are on the subject of antennas I would like to know if anyone has
> plans for the internal wing tip antennas like the ones I have seen in the
> ACS catalog. The ones I have seen look like they would be very simple to
> construct out of aluminum strips. It's the length and shape that are
> critical. Anyone done this?
> Tom
> RV8 Fastback
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
Hi all:
Since I have been RV traveling for the past couple of weeks, I have only
been able to read small snippets of what occurred. Now that I am home
and able to look through all the emails I have one reaction --
Utterly astonished.
I am new to the list and intentionally avoided it while spending almost
full time building my 8A over the past couple of years. Accordingly, I
did not personally know or have any contact with the two RVers who
perished. Maybe that makes me a little less emotionally involved than
many of you. However, their circumstance is so well known that I can
only say again --
Utterly astonished.
How many times have we all learned, forgotten and re-learned the basic
lesson that an accident is a result of a chain of events? One thing
leads to another which leads to another -- and eventually to the scene
of the crash. If you can break one link in the chain of events leading
to the accident, there will be no accident. This is why I read accident
reports. I try to make sure that if I see a chain developing, I
recoginze it and take steps to break it. It might even be true that I
have saved my own life at one time or another because of this. But how
would I know since I broke the chain before it led me to the smoking
hole?
What astonishes me in this situation is that the chain of events was
clear, had red flags waving in the breeze all around it and yet no link
was successfully broken. The airplane had mechanical problems,
including the critical airspeed system. There existed the
all-too-frequent accident pilot attributes of low time, low time in
type and lack of currency. And added to that was the use of a landing
approach method that was abnormal at best, and far from the stablized
approach concept that has worked well for decades. All of this was
seen, by the victims and many around them, and yet flying continued as
though everything was ops normal.
Most surprising to me is the fact that the pitot static system had
problems and yet was not fully investigated and repaired on the ground
before the next flight. The fact is that this is a kit airplane and if
the system is installed per the plans it will work pretty well. In
short, once the problem was seen, a pitot/static/transponder check could
have identified and repaired it on the spot. I had a problem in my
static system that was detected and repaired by this exact method.
The pitot/static system, and not angle of attack, is what we all were
taught for speed determination. True, airspeed is not a direct
indication of angle of attack, as has been well covered in the thread,
but it is what we were taught to use and works well it used properly.
For this system to be inop, or questionable, along with the other items
mentioned above is really thumbing one's nose at fate.
There are lessons to be learned here and I have put them in the back of
my mind with all the others I have stored there. For those no longer
with us, these lessons have no further benefit. But for the rest of us,
the loss of our fellow aviators can, and should, make us more aware of
red flags and chains of events. Now and then you have to "butt in." I
know the opposite expression is more commonly used. But as lister Gary
Sobek so well said, it is better to lose a friendship because of
intervening when you think you should than to lose a friendship because
you kept quiet and the friend is dead. If it doesn't look like a duck,
walk like a duck and quack like a duck, don't let anyone convince
himself that it is a duck when you think it isn't. No offense intended
at anyone, by the way. This is life and accidents happen. Let's just
try to focus our 20/20 hindsight more toward the future when we can.
My thoughts today.
Bill Marvel
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832
7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location/type |
http://www.davtron.com/M803.html
I highly recommend the Davtron M803. The top half of the 2.25" instrument
is OAT in C or F and also shows volts. The bottom half is a nice digital
chronomter which shows UTC time, local time, flight time (you can trigger
this to start/stop electrically in several ways), and elapsed time. Flight
time alarm, count down alarm, external output for the alarms. Very cool
instrument in my opinion.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (flaps)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lawson" <jwlawson(at)hargray.com>
Subject: RV-List: OAT location/type
>
> Since we're on the subject...what kind of OAT (gauge and probe) have you
fellas bought?
>
> John
> RV-6 (sllllllllllowwwwwwwwww build due to work)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Safety and operating costs (lean running Lyc) |
Eustace-
>A single indicator with the probe installed correctly on #3 cylinder <
Why # 3?
What are your thoughts on lean of peak / over square as per GAMI?
Glen
-8 QB, fuse upside down at the moment
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | CM-4MS flap rod end bearing |
Can somebody confirm that the CM-4MS bearings used on the flaps are supplied
in the fuselage kit hardware? I didn't seem to get any with the wing kit
hardware.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (flaps)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | OOPS...now I need your advice |
http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge holes
this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right as
I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
above...
I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the new
hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable at
all?
The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new skin,
since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge rivet
hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother me
too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing on
Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is minor.
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat Belt Anchor Edge Distances |
Absolutely move them if edge distance is not sufficient. I moved mine
slightly as well.
If you need to grind some away to clear the top skin do it. Edge distance is
the only concern here.
Steve
RV7A
misc fuse stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: RV-List: Seat Belt Anchor Edge Distances
>
> When I Layout the seatbelt anchors to the longerons according to the
> dimensions on the drawings there does not seem to be enough edge
> distance between the center of the holes and the inside of the
> longerons. I guess I can move the anchors further outside to get the
> edge clearance but they may have to be gound a little to clear the top
> skin, or I can just go with the dimensions in the plans.
>
> What say ye experts?
>
> Godspeed,
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved)
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CM-4MS flap rod end bearing |
Yes, correct. They're in the fuse kit.
Steve
RV7A
misc fuse stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: CM-4MS flap rod end bearing
>
> Can somebody confirm that the CM-4MS bearings used on the flaps are
supplied
> in the fuselage kit hardware? I didn't seem to get any with the wing kit
> hardware.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (flaps)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS...now I need your advice |
Clean the edges of the hole really well with emery cloth, put a pop rivet in
there, and fill the inside of the pop rivet, as well as the rest of the hole
around it, and you will be fine. You might want to get a countersunk rivet
washer to help the pop rivet grab without pulling through.
I wouldn't do a new skin. You will possibly make worse mistakes while
building, and we know that these airplanes are very over engineered. This
hole like this will not make your plane fall out of the sky. I say fix it
and drive on!
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: OOPS...now I need your advice
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
>
> I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge holes
> this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right
as
> I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
> above...
>
> I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the
new
> hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable at
> all?
>
> The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new
skin,
> since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge
rivet
> hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother me
> too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
>
> Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
> everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing on
> Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is
minor.
>
> )_( Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS...now I need your advice |
It might be possible to drill it out and use a larger rivet if you have room.
Just a thought. The others may have a better idea.
Earl
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
>
> I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge holes
> this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right as
> I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
> above...
>
> I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the new
> hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable at
> all?
>
> The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new skin,
> since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge rivet
> hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother me
> too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
>
> Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
> everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing on
> Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is minor.
>
> )_( Dan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS...now I need your advice |
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
>
>I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge holes
>this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right as
>I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
>above...
>
>I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the new
>hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable at
>all?
>
>The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new skin,
>since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge rivet
>hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother me
>too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
>
>Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
>everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing on
>Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is minor.
>
>)_( Dan
Dan,
If you really wanted to salvage the skin, you could possibly leave
that hole empty. Check it over carefully, and enlarge it with a
needle file where necessary to get rid of any areas that look like
they are cracks in waiting. Drill a new hole between this one, and
the next one forward.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS...now I need your advice |
Drill another hole to either side, redimple and go about your business. You
can fill the existing hole later during the finishing process. You'll
probably get dimples and bumps in other parts of the project as you go
along. I like to use micoballons and epoxy as my filler of choice but there
are certainly others.
I certainly wouldn't spend the time or money on a new skin because of one
small hole, but then, it's your time and money.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Fortner" <efortner(at)vnet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OOPS...now I need your advice
>
> It might be possible to drill it out and use a larger rivet if you have
room.
> Just a thought. The others may have a better idea.
> Earl
>
> Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
> >
> > I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge
holes
> > this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right
as
> > I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
> > above...
> >
> > I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the
new
> > hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable
at
> > all?
> >
> > The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new
skin,
> > since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge
rivet
> > hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother
me
> > too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
> >
> > Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
> > everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing
on
> > Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is
minor.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom and Faye" <tcrupe(at)ridgenet.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator Hookup |
As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire in my
RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen Import
60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't have the
connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which pin I
need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on or off.
The Kragan people could not help.
I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that. I know
Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending them an
e-mail.
Thanks
Tom Rupe
RV4 S/N 62
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Cantrell <kcflyrv(at)pacbell.net> |
Bill,
I too have read most of the posts regarding this terrible event and I think
you summarized the important lessons quite well. I just finished my six last
April and just this morning I put the 93rd hour on my treasured bird. I
never knew how much I could enjoy this new dimension of my life. I am a
private pilot with only 600 hours but I, like the rest of us, want to be the
best and safest pilot I can be. I look forward to hopefully many years of
the special experience this aircraft provides. I can't get over the finality
of this and other accidents that seem like they could so easily have been
avoided. I have always felt that mistakes teach us well and in this case it
is our responsibility to learn the lessons provided for the sake of us
individually as well as for the sake of our shared activity as others have
recently said. I agree with you that we should focus our 20/20 hindsight
towards the future and break that chain the next time it starts to form.
Ken Cantrell
RV6 - 93 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Marvel" <bmarvel(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Tampa crash
>
> Hi all:
>
> Since I have been RV traveling for the past couple of weeks, I have only
> been able to read small snippets of what occurred. Now that I am home
> and able to look through all the emails I have one reaction --
>
> Utterly astonished.
>
> I am new to the list and intentionally avoided it while spending almost
> full time building my 8A over the past couple of years. Accordingly, I
> did not personally know or have any contact with the two RVers who
> perished. Maybe that makes me a little less emotionally involved than
> many of you. However, their circumstance is so well known that I can
> only say again --
>
> Utterly astonished.
>
> How many times have we all learned, forgotten and re-learned the basic
> lesson that an accident is a result of a chain of events? One thing
> leads to another which leads to another -- and eventually to the scene
> of the crash. If you can break one link in the chain of events leading
> to the accident, there will be no accident. This is why I read accident
> reports. I try to make sure that if I see a chain developing, I
> recoginze it and take steps to break it. It might even be true that I
> have saved my own life at one time or another because of this. But how
> would I know since I broke the chain before it led me to the smoking
> hole?
>
> What astonishes me in this situation is that the chain of events was
> clear, had red flags waving in the breeze all around it and yet no link
> was successfully broken. The airplane had mechanical problems,
> including the critical airspeed system. There existed the
> all-too-frequent accident pilot attributes of low time, low time in
> type and lack of currency. And added to that was the use of a landing
> approach method that was abnormal at best, and far from the stablized
> approach concept that has worked well for decades. All of this was
> seen, by the victims and many around them, and yet flying continued as
> though everything was ops normal.
>
> Most surprising to me is the fact that the pitot static system had
> problems and yet was not fully investigated and repaired on the ground
> before the next flight. The fact is that this is a kit airplane and if
> the system is installed per the plans it will work pretty well. In
> short, once the problem was seen, a pitot/static/transponder check could
> have identified and repaired it on the spot. I had a problem in my
> static system that was detected and repaired by this exact method.
>
> The pitot/static system, and not angle of attack, is what we all were
> taught for speed determination. True, airspeed is not a direct
> indication of angle of attack, as has been well covered in the thread,
> but it is what we were taught to use and works well it used properly.
> For this system to be inop, or questionable, along with the other items
> mentioned above is really thumbing one's nose at fate.
>
> There are lessons to be learned here and I have put them in the back of
> my mind with all the others I have stored there. For those no longer
> with us, these lessons have no further benefit. But for the rest of us,
> the loss of our fellow aviators can, and should, make us more aware of
> red flags and chains of events. Now and then you have to "butt in." I
> know the opposite expression is more commonly used. But as lister Gary
> Sobek so well said, it is better to lose a friendship because of
> intervening when you think you should than to lose a friendship because
> you kept quiet and the friend is dead. If it doesn't look like a duck,
> walk like a duck and quack like a duck, don't let anyone convince
> himself that it is a duck when you think it isn't. No offense intended
> at anyone, by the way. This is life and accidents happen. Let's just
> try to focus our 20/20 hindsight more toward the future when we can.
>
> My thoughts today.
>
> Bill Marvel
>
>
> --
> Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832
> 7617
> P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
> San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
>
> One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS...now I need your advice |
I would clean up both holes as much as you can. Use files and emery cloth to
alleviate any areas
where cracks can originate. I would rivet the location as normal however to
get extra strength
I use a little fuel sealant between the skin and the rib when it comes time
to rivet. Then fill in the area
with putty, microballoon or what ever you choose.
You don't need a new skin.
Steve
RV7A
misc fuse stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: OOPS...now I need your advice
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/images/20020824_oops.jpg
>
> I was using the ViseGrip dimpler on the flap top skin trailing edge holes
> this morning. On the last hole (of course), something didn't feel right
as
> I squeezed it. It punched a NEW HOLE in the skin. See the image link
> above...
>
> I managed to flatten it out and re-dimple the correct location, but the
new
> hole is literally adjacent to the last hole. Think this is salvageable at
> all?
>
> The conservative side in me says to scrap this skin and go with a new
skin,
> since cracks could radiate out from there. But it's the trailing edge
rivet
> hole and it takes a blind rivet anyway. Cosmetically it doesn't bother me
> too much, but I want to do the right thing structurally.
>
> Can you guys let me know what you would do? I won't be surprised if
> everybody says to order a new skin, which is what I'm planning on doing on
> Monday bright and early, but I'd be curious if anybody thinks this is
minor.
>
> )_( Dan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
Mr. Rupe,
Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
Later,
Linc
Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
>
> As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire in my
> RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen Import
> 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
> terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't have the
> connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which pin I
> need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on or off.
> The Kragan people could not help.
>
> I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that. I
know
> Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending them an
> e-mail.
>
> Thanks
> Tom Rupe
> RV4 S/N 62
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator Hookup |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Look up a Pro. in the phone book. He will have a catalog that shows every
thing you need.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
writes:
>
> As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire
> in my
> RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen
> Import
> 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the
> B
> terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't
> have the
> connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which
> pin I
> need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on
> or off.
> The Kragan people could not help.
>
> I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that.
> I know
> Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending
> them an
> e-mail.
>
> Thanks
> Tom Rupe
> RV4 S/N 62
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Sigmon <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
Eugene: I have this hookup in my RV-6A, I installed it using the smart
coupler which was installed with Navaid, which they made the connections
inside the Gyro. What I did was buy the kit that connects the GPS to the
airplane from Garmin. This kit will allow you to hook up the power to the
aircraft battery and the signal to the to the Gyro. When you fly you are
using the aircraft battery and the batteries in the GPS are the backup if
power is lost. As you said there a two wires for the Autopilot. If you
would like I can send you a diagram of how I hooked up the VOR/GPS and the
battery hookup.
Harvey Sigmon N602RV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Navaid installation
>
> Who out there has installed a Navaid with a GPS Garmin Pilot III ? How w> as
the GPS connected? Did you buy a plug from Garmin? The wiring diagra> m from
Navaid Shows only one data wire assuming the ground is the airfram> e. I already
have my servo mounted on the wing tip but the Head hasn't b> een delivered
yet. I'm trying to round up all the hardware before it arr> /explorer.msn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Weather Stripping on the canopy of a 6a tip up |
Is everbody happy with the weather stripping Van
supplies. I am getting ready to stick it on and
realize I don't have enough, unless I am suppose to
cut it in half. If it is to be cut in half, it doesn't
seem like it would work very well.
Does anybody use anything different?
Dan
Trying to paint the fuselage.
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weather Stripping on the canopy of a 6a tip up |
It doesn't work that well. I got some door stripping from a minivan. It's
black and hollow, and when not crushed it is about 3/4" in diameter. You
could probably get some from a dealer or junkyard. It works very well.
Then use something strong like urethane windshield sealant to hold it on.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Weather Stripping on the canopy of a 6a tip up
>
> Is everbody happy with the weather stripping Van
> supplies. I am getting ready to stick it on and
> realize I don't have enough, unless I am suppose to
> cut it in half. If it is to be cut in half, it doesn't
> seem like it would work very well.
>
> Does anybody use anything different?
>
> Dan
> Trying to paint the fuselage.
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "steve kennedy" <swcme(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Wing and Tail Kits |
For sale $2000 RV6 tail kit almost completed, and wing kit - spars finished,
ribs preped and ready for the jig.
Steve Kennedy
281-482-2563 or 832-656-0594
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OAT location/type |
For those thinking about getting or building the MicroEncoder, it comes with
a neat OAT probe that can be flush mounted--about the size of a dime. You
need to request extra wire for the wing mount, however, and I put a small
connector in the wing root area. Also, it can be programed to read in C or
F.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH @ VRB, 700 hours TT
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, Fuselage
O-360, Hartzell C/S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Marvel" <bmarvel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OAT location/type
>
> John:
>
> I bought the Davtron 301C which reads in Centigrade. It just happened to
fit a space in my
> panel perfectly. If I had to do it again, I would probably get one that
reads in F or C
> with the flip of a switch. Now and then that would be convenient.
>
> Bill Marvel
>
> John Lawson wrote:
>
> >
> > Since we're on the subject...what kind of OAT (gauge and probe) have you
fellas bought?
> >
> > John
> > RV-6 (sllllllllllowwwwwwwwww build due to work)
> >
>
> --
> Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
> P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
> San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
>
> One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
Listers,
Have any of you with a Val radio had one of the display digits
go dark ?
Just installed mine and one toggle shows no display....damn annoying since I
can't tell which freq. I am on.
Seems I heard this before ?
Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>
>
>Listers,
> Have any of you with a Val radio had one of the display
>digits
>go dark ?
>Just installed mine and one toggle shows no display....damn annoying since
>I
>can't tell which freq. I am on.
> Seems I heard this before ?
>Austin.
>
Yes. It's a common problem with these radios. I understand that Val will
upgrade the display drive to reduce the current to the LED segments for
free. (That's what they told me over the phone a few months ago.) You'll
just be without a radio while they do it. I've pulled the front face off my
radio, and swapped the last display unit over to the position that had
failed segments. No soldering required. The seven segment LED units are
socketed. Val advised this was fine to do if I didn't want to be without a
radio for a while.
It's readable now, but another segment has burned out recently. So, the only
true fix is to pull it from the airplane and get it fixed properly.
Otherwise, it's a fine radio!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
297 hrs.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Austin wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> Have any of you with a Val radio had one of the display digits
> go dark ?
> Just installed mine and one toggle shows no display....damn annoying since I
> can't tell which freq. I am on.
> Seems I heard this before ?
> Austin.
>
Sorry to hear that Austin, I have two Vals in my RV-6 and have not had a
display go out in 13 years. Of course it is only because I live 15 minutes
from them by RV. :)
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
I have 60 plus hours on my RV-8 now and am having trouble with heat in the
floor behid firewall. Engine temps are all good but am getting a lot of heat
transfer on to the feet. Any ideas?
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>I have 60 plus hours on my RV-8 now and am having trouble with heat in the
>floor behid firewall. Engine temps are all good but am getting a lot of heat
>transfer on to the feet. Any ideas?
Check exhaust system for leaks, cracks etc
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | O-320 E2D with constant speed prop |
OK all you engine guru's . . .
I've aquired a runout E2D to be overhauled for use in my RV9A. The engine came
with a bunch of new parts including a brand new set of 150 HP pistons. While I'd
like to build it with 160 HP pistons, the 150's would allow me to use auto
gas and fly a little cheaper. I'm also concerned about the 2600 rpm limit on the
Sensenich props. Since you can never really run 100% rated power, it seems
that I would be leaving some of the 150HP untapped. So I would very much like
to install a constant speed prop, but an E2D isn't normally setup to handle a
constant speed prop. Has anybody converted their E2D to use a Hartzel constant
speed prop?
The accessory case normally isn't machined for a prop governer, but I should be
able to locate the correct accessory case. The case does have the unmachined
pad there, has anyone had this machined to add a prop governer?
Also, the oil line fitting at the front of the crank case is not machined. The
boss is there, but there is no hole in it for the oil line. I would think that
this could be machined into the case, anyone done this?
The final question is in relation to the front main bearing. As I understand it
(I haven't opened the case yet), the E2D has a four piece front main bearing;
actually two more sets of the main bearing used on the center and rear crank
journals. I believe engines equipped for constant speed props have the large two
piece bearing. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong here), that the oil pressure
for the prop is fed to the center of the crank through this bearing. Does
the four piece main fron bearing preclude the use of a hydraulic constant speed
prop? If not, are these smaller bearings OK with the the weight of a heavier
prop?
Or, do I have to go electric? It seems I would have at least $6500 into a Harttzell
by the time I buy the prop, governer, the oil lines and have the extra machine
work done. Or, do I bite the bullet and go with the electric constant speed
MT prop for a few hundred dollars more?
Thanks,
Todd Houg
http://www.toddhoug.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kitz" <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tampa crash....long mindless rambling..... |
>
> I don't have anything to add to the discussion of this accident in terms
> of analysis of what went wrong and what we can do to prevent the same
> happening to ourselves. What dismays me the most about it is that
> despite the warning signs, this tragedy really just ends up being yet
> another "statistic" in the long run.
I have a friend in industry that is a statistician. He says that safety in
GA flying is about equivalent to driving a motorcycle.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
DNA
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers:
Just a plug for the customer service from WigWag. The first unit I somehow
screwed up and could not get it to work. Bob sent me a brand new unit at now
charge and helped to make sure I hooked it up correctly. It is working
beautifully !!
Great customer service !!!
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Any week now !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | O-320 E2D with constant speed prop |
>
> OK all you engine guru's . . .
>
> I've aquired a runout E2D to be overhauled for use in my
> RV9A. The engine came with a bunch of new parts including a
> brand new set of 150 HP pistons. While I'd like to build it
> with 160 HP pistons, the 150's would allow me to use auto gas
> and fly a little cheaper. I'm also concerned about the 2600
> rpm limit on the Sensenich props. Since you can never really
> run 100% rated power, it seems that I would be leaving some
> of the 150HP untapped. So I would very much like to install a
> constant speed prop, but an E2D isn't normally setup to
> handle a constant speed prop. Has anybody converted their E2D
> to use a Hartzel constant speed prop?
Todd, I'm not an engine guru nor do I play one on TV. But I did
overhaul and convert my E3D to 160 HP which is the same as yours except
it has a fuel pump. I think your are correct about the need for
machining or getting another accessory case. The bearings are as you
state. The crank is not solid so is adaptable to constant speed.
The pistons are not very expensive so changing pistons would not be
costly. However, the machine shop (Bolduc Aviation) told me the high
compression pistons used a choke bore on the cylinders. I had plain
steel cylinders and they choke bored them to 0.010 over. If your
cylinders are chrome or nitrited this could be an issue. (BTW chrome
cylinders use plain steel rings and steel cylinders use chrome rings.
The chrome rings cost more than the pistons.) I now have 230 trouble
free hours on it.
I have a wood prob. But I think there are a lot of RV's with metal
props on 160 HP engines. I also was concerned about the redline on the
prop but more for the reason of aerobatics. At 8000 feet you can't get
the 160 horses any way so I don't think you will have a problem. I can
turn 2750 RPM at 2000 feet but only 2600 at altitude. Static is 2240
RPM.
I have an overhaul page on by web site with a link to my overhaul cost.
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/engine.html
Ken
N94KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | O-320 E2D with constant speed prop |
Ken, Thanks for the info! I've seen your N94KB at some of the VAF MN
wing events - very nice! I've added a few comments below . . .
>Todd, I'm not an engine guru nor do I play one on TV. But I did
>overhaul and convert my E3D to 160 HP which is the same as yours except
>it has a fuel pump.
Apperently they used several different accessory cases on the E2D, some
with fuel pump provisions and some without. Fortunately mine is machined
for a fuel pump.
>The pistons are not very expensive so changing pistons would not be
>costly. However, the machine shop (Bolduc Aviation) told me the high
>compression pistons used a choke bore on the cylinders. I had plain
>steel cylinders and they choke bored them to 0.010 over. If your
>cylinders are chrome or nitrited this could be an issue. (BTW chrome
>cylinders use plain steel rings and steel cylinders use chrome rings.
>The chrome rings cost more than the pistons.) I now have 230 trouble
>free hours on it.
Since I'm in the Minneapolis area, I'll be suing Buldoc for my machine
work also. I wasn't aware that the 160 HP pistons used a tapered bore.
Oddly enough, my engine came with three chrome cylinders and one
nitrided cylinder that had been replaced about 1000 hours ago. I will
likely exchange the nitride cylinder for another chrome. If they have to
taper the bore on the chrome cylinders I would assume they would need
re-chroming also. I'm OK with 150 HP, I like the idea of less expensive
gas, I'm just trying to get the most out of it that I can!
>I have a wood prob. But I think there are a lot of RV's with metal
>props on 160 HP engines. I also was concerned about the redline on the
>prop but more for the reason of aerobatics. At 8000 feet you can't get
>the 160 horses any way so I don't think you will have a problem. I can
>turn 2750 RPM at 2000 feet but only 2600 at altitude. Static is 2240
>RPM.
Since I'm building an RV9A, aerobatics aren't a concern. And there's no
doubt that 150 HP with a fixed pitch prop (even with 2600 rpm
limitation), will be more than adequate for this airplane. Like I said,
I'm just exploring my options to get the most out of it. A 160 HP
conversion would certainly be cheaper than a constant speed prop!
>I have an overhaul page on by web site with a link to my overhaul cost.
> http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/engine.html
Thanks for the excellent info on your overhaul, I'm hoping to keep my
costs in the $8000 dollar range also.
Todd Houg
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop? |
>
>I'm working on the spinner installation on my RV-8. I've got Van's
>spinner and a Hartzell constant speed prop. The plans are a bit
>inconsistent in showing whether we should secure the spinner to the
>front bulkhead or not. My spinner fits tight against both bulkheads.
>I can't wiggle the front of it at all. I'm not convinced I need any
>screws from the spinner into the front bulkhead, but I would like to
>see what the service history tells me.
>
>I haven't studied this area closely on other RVs, but I'm reasonably
>sure I've seen quite a few RVs with no screws into the front
>bulkhead. I would be interested in hearing from guys with flying RVs
>who have constant speed props and no screws from the spinner to the
>front bulkhead. How many hours do you have on the RV with this
>installation? Do you see any sign of a problem? Would you do it the
>same way again?
>
>Reply directly to me to avoid cluttering up the list
>(mailto:khorton(at)rogers.com). I'll post a summary to the list in a
>day or two once I've sorted out the inputs.
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Here is the followup I promised.
I didn't actually hear from anyone who mounted their spinner without
putting any screws in the front bulkhead. Several listers reminded
me of the large forces on the spinner, and made strong
recommendations to put screws in the front bulkhead.
I'm a big believer in the lessons taught by service history. But, it
seems like there is no service history to draw upon, and I'm not
going to be the guinea pig. My spinner will have screws into the
front bulkhead.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
Sounds like this is the same installation that I want. Please send the diagram
to E.W.Williams, 140 Buckberry Dr #1944, Sapphire,N.C. Thanks gene w.
----- Original Message -----
From: Harvey Sigmon
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid installation
Eugene: I have this hookup in my RV-6A, I installed it using the smart
coupler which was installed with Navaid, which they made the connections
inside the Gyro. What I did was buy the kit that connects the GPS to the
airplane from Garmin. This kit will allow you to hook up the power to the
aircraft battery and the signal to the to the Gyro. When you fly you are
using the aircraft battery and the batteries in the GPS are the backup if
power is lost. As you said there a two wires for the Autopilot. If you
would like I can send you a diagram of how I hooked up the VOR/GPS and the
battery hookup.
Harvey Sigmon N602RV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Navaid installation
>
> Who out there has installed a Navaid with a GPS Garmin Pilot III ? How w
> as the GPS connected? Did you buy a plug from Garmin? The wiring diagra
> m from Navaid Shows only one data wire assuming the ground is the airfram
> e. I already have my servo mounted on the wing tip but the Head hasn't b
> een delivered yet. I'm trying to round up all the hardware before it arr
> /explorer.msn.com
>
>
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop? |
Hi Kevin,
I must have missed your question when you first posted it, but I think Jerry
Springer installed the spinner in his -6 without any VISIBLE screws in the
front bulkhead. The last email address I have for him is
jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: RV8-List: Re: RV-List: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop?
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>
> >
> >I'm working on the spinner installation on my RV-8. I've got Van's
> >spinner and a Hartzell constant speed prop. The plans are a bit
> >inconsistent in showing whether we should secure the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead or not. My spinner fits tight against both bulkheads.
> >I can't wiggle the front of it at all. I'm not convinced I need any
> >screws from the spinner into the front bulkhead, but I would like to
> >see what the service history tells me.
> >
> >I haven't studied this area closely on other RVs, but I'm reasonably
> >sure I've seen quite a few RVs with no screws into the front
> >bulkhead. I would be interested in hearing from guys with flying RVs
> >who have constant speed props and no screws from the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead. How many hours do you have on the RV with this
> >installation? Do you see any sign of a problem? Would you do it the
> >same way again?
> >
> >Reply directly to me to avoid cluttering up the list
> >(mailto:khorton(at)rogers.com). I'll post a summary to the list in a
> >day or two once I've sorted out the inputs.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >--
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
>
> Here is the followup I promised.
>
> I didn't actually hear from anyone who mounted their spinner without
> putting any screws in the front bulkhead. Several listers reminded
> me of the large forces on the spinner, and made strong
> recommendations to put screws in the front bulkhead.
>
> I'm a big believer in the lessons taught by service history. But, it
> seems like there is no service history to draw upon, and I'm not
> going to be the guinea pig. My spinner will have screws into the
> front bulkhead.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop? |
Hi Kevin,
I must have missed your question when you first posted it, but I think Jerry
Springer installed the spinner in his -6 without any VISIBLE screws in the
front bulkhead. The last email address I have for him is
jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: RV8-List: Re: RV-List: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop?
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
>
> >
> >I'm working on the spinner installation on my RV-8. I've got Van's
> >spinner and a Hartzell constant speed prop. The plans are a bit
> >inconsistent in showing whether we should secure the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead or not. My spinner fits tight against both bulkheads.
> >I can't wiggle the front of it at all. I'm not convinced I need any
> >screws from the spinner into the front bulkhead, but I would like to
> >see what the service history tells me.
> >
> >I haven't studied this area closely on other RVs, but I'm reasonably
> >sure I've seen quite a few RVs with no screws into the front
> >bulkhead. I would be interested in hearing from guys with flying RVs
> >who have constant speed props and no screws from the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead. How many hours do you have on the RV with this
> >installation? Do you see any sign of a problem? Would you do it the
> >same way again?
> >
> >Reply directly to me to avoid cluttering up the list
> >(mailto:khorton(at)rogers.com). I'll post a summary to the list in a
> >day or two once I've sorted out the inputs.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >--
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
>
> Here is the followup I promised.
>
> I didn't actually hear from anyone who mounted their spinner without
> putting any screws in the front bulkhead. Several listers reminded
> me of the large forces on the spinner, and made strong
> recommendations to put screws in the front bulkhead.
>
> I'm a big believer in the lessons taught by service history. But, it
> seems like there is no service history to draw upon, and I'm not
> going to be the guinea pig. My spinner will have screws into the
> front bulkhead.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Bonesteel" <rv8tor3(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tampa crash....long mindless rambling..... |
I have a friend in industry that is a statistician. He says that safety in
GA flying is about equivalent to driving a motorcycle.
O great I do both, good thing I'm 69 yr's old.
Wayne
DNA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
List:
Those of you that have installed the side steps for a 6A......I have
trial fitted my first side and find that the aft edge of the step
flange, that mounts onto the side skin, appears as though it will stick
out from the surface of the side skin. This is in the area where the
skin transitions to the coneshaped rear fuselage. I realize that the
flange needs to be trimmed to fit in this area, but it looks like once I
do that, the step tube inboard of the step flange will be exposed
outside of the fuselage.
I have the step flange clamped nicely to the bulkhead flange (F624??
plans are not infront of me) as well as the side flange of F623, so I
cannot extend the step inboard any further.
It just seems that if I trim the step flange right to the step tube,
there will be a rather ragged, unfinished looking hole in the side skin
where the tube exits.
What have others done?
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuse
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: floor heat |
Stan:
Don't know if you have a heater fitting in the firewall or not. I do, and
had a lot of air leaking around the flapper even when it was shut. A
healthy application of high temp RTV around the flapper fixed it, and I've
had no problem with heat transfer since.
George
N888GK
71 hours
>From: N188rv(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV8-List: floor heat
>Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:58:48 EDT
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: N188rv(at)aol.com
>
>I have 60 plus hours on my RV-8 now and am having trouble with heat in the
>floor behid firewall. Engine temps are all good but am getting a lot of
>heat
>transfer on to the feet. Any ideas?
>
>Stan
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tampa crash....long mindless rambling..... |
>
> I have a friend in industry that is a statistician. He says
> that safety in GA flying is about equivalent to driving a motorcycle.
>
I'd guess that is close - however, is the ratio of good to terrible
operating practices the same?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 195 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> It just seems that if I trim the step flange right to the
> step tube, there will be a rather ragged, unfinished looking
> hole in the side skin where the tube exits.
>
> What have others done?
>
Can you heat and bend it? Find someone with an oxy-acetylene torch.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 195 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
Subject: RV-8 canopy
We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy too
short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the
windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the vicinity
of the pilots shoulders aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried
pulling the canopy down (25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft canopy
frame too the point where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think
using this much force during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy
within a short time. Fore and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for
the area that is short.
Has anyone else had this problem? How did you correct it?
Sam, RV-8,
We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy too short
on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the windscreen,
and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the vicinity of the pilots
shoulders aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried pulling the canopy
down (25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft canopy frame too the
point where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think using this much force
during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy within a short time. Fore
and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for the area that is short.
Has anyone else had this problem? How did you correct it?
Sam, RV-8,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Hi Jeff,
Though its been a while since I dealt with this same type of situation and
Keeping in mind the variables that creep into these individually built kits
I offer this;
The step and it's mounting flange is Chrome Molly and it will survive being
bent and shaped somewhat. Although the lower rear flange area has limited
material to work with, it can be bent toward the fuselage thereby closing
the gap to some degree at least. I accomplished this re-shaping with my
bench vise, a medium weight hammer and vise grips etc. When all the
re-shaping that could be done was finished I trimmed the flange to provide
the best hole coverage possible. The end result left a small opening about
3/16" that is out of sight when the fuselage is upright. I will use tank
sealant during final installation of the steps to close and seal the whole
flange area.
I hope this helps,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: side steps
>
> List:
>
> Those of you that have installed the side steps for a 6A......I have
> trial fitted my first side and find that the aft edge of the step
> flange, that mounts onto the side skin, appears as though it will stick
> out from the surface of the side skin. This is in the area where the
> skin transitions to the coneshaped rear fuselage. I realize that the
> flange needs to be trimmed to fit in this area, but it looks like once I
> do that, the step tube inboard of the step flange will be exposed
> outside of the fuselage.
>
> I have the step flange clamped nicely to the bulkhead flange (F624??
> plans are not infront of me) as well as the side flange of F623, so I
> cannot extend the step inboard any further.
>
> It just seems that if I trim the step flange right to the step tube,
> there will be a rather ragged, unfinished looking hole in the side skin
> where the tube exits.
>
> What have others done?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harvey Sigmon <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
Jeff: The aft lower corner will need to be trimmed and bent slightly to
conform to the contour of the fuselage. Be careful when you trim the lower
side as the rivets might require some edge distance in that area. I rounded
the corner slightly on my RV-6A to make it fit. Hope this helps.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6AQB N602RV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: side steps
>
> List:
>
> Those of you that have installed the side steps for a 6A......I have
> trial fitted my first side and find that the aft edge of the step
> flange, that mounts onto the side skin, appears as though it will stick
> out from the surface of the side skin. This is in the area where the
> skin transitions to the coneshaped rear fuselage. I realize that the
> flange needs to be trimmed to fit in this area, but it looks like once I
> do that, the step tube inboard of the step flange will be exposed
> outside of the fuselage.
>
> I have the step flange clamped nicely to the bulkhead flange (F624??
> plans are not infront of me) as well as the side flange of F623, so I
> cannot extend the step inboard any further.
>
> It just seems that if I trim the step flange right to the step tube,
> there will be a rather ragged, unfinished looking hole in the side skin
> where the tube exits.
>
> What have others done?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
Re: rolling your own LRI "Back to the LRI/AOA. I think this could be
made better without spending
$1500 that PSS wants for their AOA Pro. "
FWIW, I saw PSS when they first appeared at OSH. I had seen the ads in SA
and was intrigued. My buddy and I (he's a working aeronautical engineer
and an aerobatic competitor, I'm a professional pilot with a background in
engineering, and both of us are building airplanes) asked the proprietor
'how their system worked'. His answer was 'I don't have time to explain
it, and you wouldn't understand anyway.' He then went back to chatting
with a fella behind his counter. Well, that's just not the level of
product support I'm looking for, especially for 1,500 bucks. Also, if he
can't make us understand his product to my satisfaction, it's not going on
my aircraft. Just one experience, and perhaps others love this guy and his
product, but it'll NEVER fly on our machines.
glen
-8 QB fuse upside down
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
Sam,
I fitted my canopy a few weeks ago and I remember that it was necessary (and
mentioned in the instructions) to bend the canopy frame at the rear to get
it to fit properly. Could you bend it down, letting the canopy settle lower
at the back? The front should come down since you have already cut it and
there is nothing to keep it from coming down.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 Canopy skirts
Seattle
From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
Subject: RV-8 canopy
We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy
too
short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the
windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the
vicinity
of the pilots shoulders aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop? |
Hi Kevin
I ment to reply to your post for info on this, but got side tracked and
didn't. Anyway all I had to add was that there was a RV3 in fredericton
here with a 0-320, and no screws in the front bulkhead. Lasted 7 hours,
spinner departed making a nasty dent in the leading edge of the horizontal
stabilizer. Next one had screws.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spinner forward bulkhead - C/S prop?
>
> >
> >I'm working on the spinner installation on my RV-8. I've got Van's
> >spinner and a Hartzell constant speed prop. The plans are a bit
> >inconsistent in showing whether we should secure the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead or not. My spinner fits tight against both bulkheads.
> >I can't wiggle the front of it at all. I'm not convinced I need any
> >screws from the spinner into the front bulkhead, but I would like to
> >see what the service history tells me.
> >
> >I haven't studied this area closely on other RVs, but I'm reasonably
> >sure I've seen quite a few RVs with no screws into the front
> >bulkhead. I would be interested in hearing from guys with flying RVs
> >who have constant speed props and no screws from the spinner to the
> >front bulkhead. How many hours do you have on the RV with this
> >installation? Do you see any sign of a problem? Would you do it the
> >same way again?
> >
> >Reply directly to me to avoid cluttering up the list
> >(mailto:khorton(at)rogers.com). I'll post a summary to the list in a
> >day or two once I've sorted out the inputs.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >--
> >Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
>
> Here is the followup I promised.
>
> I didn't actually hear from anyone who mounted their spinner without
> putting any screws in the front bulkhead. Several listers reminded
> me of the large forces on the spinner, and made strong
> recommendations to put screws in the front bulkhead.
>
> I'm a big believer in the lessons taught by service history. But, it
> seems like there is no service history to draw upon, and I'm not
> going to be the guinea pig. My spinner will have screws into the
> front bulkhead.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom and Faye" <tcrupe(at)ridgenet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
Hi,
I wish I had more information. All I know is that it is a Kragen Import
Alternator. All it has is a paper label with their P/N and a barcode.
There is no manufacture info at all. They could sell me a replacement with
the info I have but they can't tell me what it's for or how it gets hooked
up electrically.
I guess their computers don't work that direction.
I wouldn't mind having your drawing though. It might help.
Thanks for your response.
Tom Rupe
RV4 S/N 62
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
>
> Mr. Rupe,
>
> Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
> If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
>
> Later,
> Linc
> Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
>
>
> > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> >
> > As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire in my
> > RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen
Import
> > 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
> > terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't have
the
> > connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which pin I
> > need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on or
off.
> > The Kragan people could not help.
> >
> > I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that. I
> know
> > Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending them
an
> > e-mail.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tom Rupe
> > RV4 S/N 62
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwpetrus(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
You may also have to bend the front bow of the canopy frame to get a good
fit. We did?
wp
RV8A finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Alternator Hook- Up |
Hi All,
To answer Tom Rupe's question, it sure sounds like the typical N-D
Alternator used on a lot of Asian applications ie, Geo/Suzuki, Toyota.
My scanner is down so I will try to explain the connections here.
Looking at the rear of the Alternator the "B" terminal is at the Top RH.
Now looking at the Round socket, the vertical blade (to the left of the
plastic divider is a "Dummy" terminal. The Top Horizontal blade is the
"Lamp" Terminal and the Lower Horizontal blade is the "Ignition" Terminal.
There are three screws in basically the same plane on the Left Hand side
of the Case. The Upper one (should be insulated from the case) is the
"Field Coil" Terminal.
There is a Pig Tail available for the three terminal socket through
Suzuki but, I don't have that Part Number handy right now.
Hope this helps out...
Jim Duckett, N708JD -7a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
Sam:
I'm not clear on what the problem is, but will try to help given a little
more information.
When you say the canopy is too short, I assume that you mean it doesn't
reach to the rails on the canopy frame. If you've cut the canopy at or
outside of the line scribed on the supplied part, that shouldn't be
possible. Please clarify.
DO NOT PULL DOWN ON THE CANOPY WHEN FITTING. YOU WILL CRACK IT.
George
N888GK
>From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV8-List: Fwd: RV-8 canopy
>Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:41:31 EDT
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>
>
>From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
>Subject: RV-8 canopy
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy
>too
>short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the
>windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the
>vicinity
>of the pilots shoulders aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried
>pulling the canopy down (25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft
>canopy
>frame too the point where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think
>using this much force during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy
>within a short time. Fore and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for
>the area that is short.
> Has anyone else had this problem? How did you correct it?
>
>Sam, RV-8,
>
>
>We have started fitting the
>canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy too short on the sides. We
>were short about 3/4" before cutting off the windscreen, and are still
>lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the vicinity of the pilots shoulders
>aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried pulling the canopy down
>(25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft canopy frame too the point
>where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think using this much force
>during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy within a short time.
>Fore and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for the area that is
>short.
>
Has anyone else had this problem?
>How did you correct it?
>
>
Sam, RV-8,
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
SAm,
We had cut our canopy alittle short on the sides. We found if we slid it
forward about an 1/8 inch it would work. We then cut the rear bow of the
canopy frame where the rear bow was welded to the frame. We then slid it in
and rewelded it. We thought we'd lost a little head room in the rear but
it's fine.
Also used sem-weld (pro seal) with a cople of keeper rivets (AACQ) forward
to hold the skirt on. This method is in the archives.
Good Building,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (120 hrs)
>From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Fwd: RV-8 canopy
>Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:41:31 EDT
>
>
>From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
>Subject: RV-8 canopy
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy
>too
>short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the
>windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the
>vicinity
>of the pilots shoulders aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried
>pulling the canopy down (25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft
>canopy
>frame too the point where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think
>using this much force during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy
>within a short time. Fore and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for
>the area that is short.
> Has anyone else had this problem? How did you correct it?
>
>Sam, RV-8,
>
>
>We have started fitting the
>canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy too short on the sides. We
>were short about 3/4" before cutting off the windscreen, and are still
>lacking about 1/2" on both sides (from the vicinity of the pilots shoulders
>aft to about 4" behind the 807 frame).. Have tried pulling the canopy down
>(25 lbs force), but this just distorts the aft canopy frame too the point
>where it is on the aft T-rail slide bar. I also think using this much force
>during the assembly will lead to a cracked canopy within a short time.
>Fore and aft movement of the canopy does nothing for the area that is
>short.
>
Has anyone else had this problem?
>How did you correct it?
>
>
Sam, RV-8,
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
Surprising. My impression of the PSS people has been that they are
helpful and professional, and they have a good product. Are you sure
you weren't at the JPI booth?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen
> j matejcek
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 3:30 PM
> To: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: rolling your own LRI
>
>
> -->
>
>
> Re: rolling your own LRI "Back to the LRI/AOA. I think
> this could be
> made better without spending
> $1500 that PSS wants for their AOA Pro. "
>
> FWIW, I saw PSS when they first appeared at OSH. I had seen
> the ads in SA and was intrigued. My buddy and I (he's a
> working aeronautical engineer and an aerobatic competitor,
> I'm a professional pilot with a background in engineering,
> and both of us are building airplanes) asked the proprietor
> 'how their system worked'. His answer was 'I don't have
> time to explain it, and you wouldn't understand anyway.' He
> then went back to chatting with a fella behind his counter.
> Well, that's just not the level of product support I'm
> looking for, especially for 1,500 bucks. Also, if he can't
> make us understand his product to my satisfaction, it's not
> going on my aircraft. Just one experience, and perhaps
> others love this guy and his product, but it'll NEVER fly on
> our machines.
>
> glen
> -8 QB fuse upside down
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
Could poor quality assusrance be responsible, with the subject canopy not
having been blown (or drawn) to the correct design depth? Anyone have
correct dimensions?
Jack Blomgren
-8 fuselage
>From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
>Subject: RV-8 canopy
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the canopy
>too
>short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting off the
>windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides SNIP<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: RV-8 canopy |
Recently, I thought mine was going to be short too. Once I started
clapming it all the way around, it sat down a little further and was ok.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
> >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
> >Subject: RV-8 canopy
> >To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> >We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the
> >canopy too short on the sides. We were short about 3/4"
> before cutting
> >off the windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides
> >SNIP<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Mike, you recall correctly that I do have a spinner that does not have any
visible screws anywhere on the outer surface. It is a spinner manufactured by Jerry
Harrold.
Just as a reminder on how that is accomplished here is a photo of the front bulkhead
and the flange that attaches to the rear spinner plate.
Hope this helps,
Jerry
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/spinner.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | allenblck(at)netscape.net |
Hi Dan,
I bent FL-706B by putting the end opposite the bearing in a vise and bending slowly.
Just be careful, the part of FL-706B that touches the bottom part of the
flap tends to bend more easily, because it has better leverage. I hope I'm making
myself clear.
Also the CM-4MS bearing are in the fuselage kit.
I've been keeping an eye on your rvproject website and have enjoyed it very much.
A while back you were talking about putting a platenut instead of cutting an
access hole in the rib web for the aileron hinge bracket nuts. For what it's
worth a friend of mine just got his RV8 quickbuild, and it had the holes cut
out as was a quickbuild RV6 that I helped work on.
Presently, I'm working on my own RV7. Finished the tail kit and working on the
ailerons and flaps of my wing kit. Decided to work on them first before taking
on the wing and tanks.
I noticed you did not elaborate much on the tailfeather fiberglas tips. I think
I spent more time on them than I did building the tailfeathers. I've seen too
many RVs at Sun-n-Fun and Oshkosh were they used body filler to hide where the
tip connects with the metal and it always seems to crack. I spent extra time
making a great joint where the tip is even with the metal, not higher or lower.
Then I made an even gap (very small) between the metal and fiberglass. That
way if the paint does develop a crack it will be at the bottom of my gap and
straight. Whichever way you do it, it still looks better than a Cessna where they
slide the tip over the metal and screw it on.
Again, I've enjoyed your tips, keep up the work.
Allen Blackwell
Tylertown, MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jamesbaldwin(at)attglobal.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
Tom-
If you take it to your local auto electrical establishment they will tell you
what each terminal is probably by simply looking at it. There are only a couple
of things an alternator needs -- field excitation, ground and output. This is
not a big thing to figure out and worst case they can look at it electrically.
JBB
Tom and Faye wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
>
> Hi,
> I wish I had more information. All I know is that it is a Kragen Import
> Alternator. All it has is a paper label with their P/N and a barcode.
> There is no manufacture info at all. They could sell me a replacement with
> the info I have but they can't tell me what it's for or how it gets hooked
> up electrically.
> I guess their computers don't work that direction.
>
> I wouldn't mind having your drawing though. It might help.
>
> Thanks for your response.
> Tom Rupe
> RV4 S/N 62
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
>
> > --> RV4-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
> >
> > Mr. Rupe,
> >
> > Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
> > If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
> >
> > Later,
> > Linc
> > Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> >
> >
> > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> > >
> > > As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire in my
> > > RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen
> Import
> > > 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
> > > terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't have
> the
> > > connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which pin I
> > > need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on or
> off.
> > > The Kragan people could not help.
> > >
> > > I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that. I
> > know
> > > Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending them
> an
> > > e-mail.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tom Rupe
> > > RV4 S/N 62
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> > Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Fromm" <jfromm1(at)hotmail.com> |
Sam,
I sympathize with you. I just finished fitting mine and had the exact same
problem. Maybe we got a couple from a bad batch.
I could tell as soon as I started trimming that I was going to have a hard
time getting it to come down low enough to meet the tubes on the canopy
frame along the sides. I did finally get it down low enough to have enough
edge distance along the sides to be safe, but just barely, and there were
two things I did to account for that. First, when I cut the flashing off, I
kept the cutoff disk vertical; i.e.; I left some of the material from the
flashing on the canopy. That adds almost 1/4", even though it's a radius
and is not full thickness. Second, I moved the canopy forward a little
further than Van's marks would indicate (this made it slide lower on the
front bows) then when I pulled it in tight around the sides of the rear bow,
it pulled the whole bubble down lower. Of course, it also pulled the rear
bow down too. I had started with the recommended clearance of 3/4" from
bottom of rear bow to the top of the slide and ended up with about 3/8"
after pulling the canopy down. I don't think that will cause a problem,
though.
So I ended up with just over the recommended 5/16" from center of side rail
to bottom edge of canopy along the middle of the sides, and that's including
that material that I left on from the flashing. I never came close to
having to notch the sides to clear the vertical ribs, because the canopy
wouldn't come down that low.
I considered calling Van's about it, but I figured I would just anticipate
their "just make it work" answer.
Jack Fromm
RV-8 QB #81120
Canopy skirt (fitting much better than the canopy)
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
> >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
> >Subject: RV-8 canopy
> >To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> >We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the
> >canopy too short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting
> >off the windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides >SNIP<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Lawliss" <ARG1(at)capital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
This, fellow birdmen, is a mystery wrapped in a conundrum. I took a copy of
the original email to my best starter/generator/alternator repair facility
and the owner looked up - or rather tried to look up- the possibilities and
came up with three which really do not sound like that item initially
described.
One of the characteristics lacking from the three Nippon possibles is the
internal regulator. All of those he located on his discs were three-pin with
labels on the pins- typically "F", "P", "E" and they each had a separate
post for "Batt".
Good luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jamesbaldwin(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> --> RV4-List message posted by: jamesbaldwin(at)attglobal.net
>
> Tom-
> If you take it to your local auto electrical establishment they will tell
you
> what each terminal is probably by simply looking at it. There are only a
couple
> of things an alternator needs -- field excitation, ground and output.
This is
> not a big thing to figure out and worst case they can look at it
electrically.
> JBB
>
> Tom and Faye wrote:
>
> > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> >
> > Hi,
> > I wish I had more information. All I know is that it is a Kragen Import
> > Alternator. All it has is a paper label with their P/N and a barcode.
> > There is no manufacture info at all. They could sell me a replacement
with
> > the info I have but they can't tell me what it's for or how it gets
hooked
> > up electrically.
> > I guess their computers don't work that direction.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind having your drawing though. It might help.
> >
> > Thanks for your response.
> > Tom Rupe
> > RV4 S/N 62
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> >
> > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
> > >
> > > Mr. Rupe,
> > >
> > > Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
> > > If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Linc
> > > Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> > > >
> > > > As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire
in my
> > > > RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen
> > Import
> > > > 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
> > > > terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't
have
> > the
> > > > connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which
pin I
> > > > need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on
or
> > off.
> > > > The Kragan people could not help.
> > > >
> > > > I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that.
I
> > > know
> > > > Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending
them
> > an
> > > > e-mail.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tom Rupe
> > > > RV4 S/N 62
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > > Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> > > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> > > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> |
I think someone needs to contact Van's if several of you are having a
problem. My original Van's canopy had plenty of material on both sides.
The only "major" modification involve bending the back of the canopy frame
as shown in the plans (so that the trailing edge of the frame was the
correct height above the top of the fuselage) . . . and on the front side,
bending out the roll bar (wind screen support) to properly fit the width of
the fuselage. Nothing was done on the plexi other than trim. Good luck.
Rick Jory
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Fromm <jfromm1(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Canopy
>
> Sam,
>
> I sympathize with you. I just finished fitting mine and had the exact
same
> problem. Maybe we got a couple from a bad batch.
>
> I could tell as soon as I started trimming that I was going to have a
hard
> time getting it to come down low enough to meet the tubes on the canopy
> frame along the sides. I did finally get it down low enough to have
enough
> edge distance along the sides to be safe, but just barely, and there were
> two things I did to account for that. First, when I cut the flashing off,
I
> kept the cutoff disk vertical; i.e.; I left some of the material from the
> flashing on the canopy. That adds almost 1/4", even though it's a radius
> and is not full thickness. Second, I moved the canopy forward a little
> further than Van's marks would indicate (this made it slide lower on the
> front bows) then when I pulled it in tight around the sides of the rear
bow,
> it pulled the whole bubble down lower. Of course, it also pulled the rear
> bow down too. I had started with the recommended clearance of 3/4" from
> bottom of rear bow to the top of the slide and ended up with about 3/8"
> after pulling the canopy down. I don't think that will cause a problem,
> though.
>
> So I ended up with just over the recommended 5/16" from center of side
rail
> to bottom edge of canopy along the middle of the sides, and that's
including
> that material that I left on from the flashing. I never came close to
> having to notch the sides to clear the vertical ribs, because the canopy
> wouldn't come down that low.
>
> I considered calling Van's about it, but I figured I would just anticipate
> their "just make it work" answer.
>
> Jack Fromm
> RV-8 QB #81120
> Canopy skirt (fitting much better than the canopy)
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Samjjake(at)cs.com
> > >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:45:36 EDT
> > >Subject: RV-8 canopy
> > >To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> > >
> > >
> > >We have started fitting the canopy for our -8, and are finding the
> > >canopy too short on the sides. We were short about 3/4" before cutting
> > >off the windscreen, and are still lacking about 1/2" on both sides
>SNIP<
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
I, too, have experienced excellent customer service from Bob. I am very
pleased with my WigWag unit.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 68 hours
Listers:
Just a plug for the customer service from WigWag. The first unit I somehow
screwed up and could not get it to work. Bob sent me a brand new unit at
now
charge and helped to make sure I hooked it up correctly. It is working
beautifully !!
Great customer service !!!
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Any week now !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi all...
Anyone have a lead on a checklist application that runs on the iPAQ? Free
would be best, but a reasonably priced one would work too... Thanks!
-Bill
http://www.vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
The diameters are different too thus resulting in a different gear ratio.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons
>
>
> >O-360s can have either a 149 or 124(?) starter ring. Obviously the 149
> tooth is a different ratio that makes it easier for >the starter. Common
> wisdom is to always get the 149 tooth pair with a high compression
> installation. I don't know if these >rings are interchangeable with the
> O-320 but it sounds like it would be worth investigating.
>
> >Randy Lervold
>
> Please help me on this one. I thought that the 149 and 124 tooth
> starter ring were the same diameter and this was only a pitch change in
> the gear spacing. The 149 and 124 use corresponding different starter
> gears also. I don't see how this will change the gear ratio.
>
> Ken
> http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
Gentlemen
One other thing you can do with alternator wiring is hook up the idiot
light. This is a good master switch on warning light. I have it hooked up
to a large red light in my 4, but you could use a light and a buzzer as
well.
The wiring is a little weird, you basicly send power to both sides of the
light. ie, a 12 volt wire from the wire harness, and another wire from the
light to the terminal that is for the light on the alternator. What happens
is when the alternator is not turning, it acts as the ground for the light,
once it startes producing power, it sends power to the light as well, there
is now no ground and the light goes out.
Its saved me a dead battery a couple of times.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
----- Original Message -----
From: <jamesbaldwin(at)attglobal.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
>
> Tom-
> If you take it to your local auto electrical establishment they will tell
you
> what each terminal is probably by simply looking at it. There are only a
couple
> of things an alternator needs -- field excitation, ground and output.
This is
> not a big thing to figure out and worst case they can look at it
electrically.
> JBB
>
> Tom and Faye wrote:
>
> > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> >
> > Hi,
> > I wish I had more information. All I know is that it is a Kragen Import
> > Alternator. All it has is a paper label with their P/N and a barcode.
> > There is no manufacture info at all. They could sell me a replacement
with
> > the info I have but they can't tell me what it's for or how it gets
hooked
> > up electrically.
> > I guess their computers don't work that direction.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind having your drawing though. It might help.
> >
> > Thanks for your response.
> > Tom Rupe
> > RV4 S/N 62
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> >
> > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
> > >
> > > Mr. Rupe,
> > >
> > > Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
> > > If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Linc
> > > Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> > > >
> > > > As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire
in my
> > > > RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a Kragen
> > Import
> > > > 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the B
> > > > terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't
have
> > the
> > > > connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which
pin I
> > > > need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on
or
> > off.
> > > > The Kragan people could not help.
> > > >
> > > > I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that.
I
> > > know
> > > > Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending
them
> > an
> > > > e-mail.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tom Rupe
> > > > RV4 S/N 62
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > > Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> > > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> > > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: Stanley Fly-In |
Hi all
I am just forwarding this email to the list in the event there is anyone
on the list interested in a trip to eastern Canada.
The airport where this is held is kind of in the boondocks with no
hotels nearby, but lots of camping space and is an excellent weekend.
Usually the largest flyin in eastern Canada.
Email me if you would like some further info...I could advise on Customs
clearance etc.
Joe Hine
C-FYTQ
STANLEY SPORT AVIATION
EAA CHAPTER # 305
32ndAnnual Labour Day Weekend Fly-In
August 30th to September 1st
Co-Hosted with COPA Flight # 60, Halifax NS
Fellow aviation buffs
The 32nd annual SSA / EAA 305 fly-in is almost here, please try to come
and join us on the weekend.
A few quick notes:
1.. Truro Flying Club, at Debert Airport, will be hosting their
breakfast on Saturday morning, you can go their from Stanley or stop
there on your way to Stanley. Ask them at Debert for your poker hand for
the Stanley Poker Rally.
2.. Several forums planned for the weekend.
3.. Flour bombing as usual but this year a new category for
Ultralights, give it a try!
4.. Precision approaches will be judged again.
5.. Aircraft will be judged, be sure to register.
6.. Lots of room for camping.
7.. Food available at the airport all weekend.
8.. Bake tables and children's activities.
9.. Fly-Market with a donated supply of AN hardware for sale thanks to
the family of Jor Frizzle.
10.. Aviation book sale, or bring along some aviation books you no
longer need, for sale.
11.. Corn boil hosted by 'the Tuttles' on Friday evening.
12.. Auction on Saturday evening.
13.. Awards presentations on Sunday evening.
Look forward to seeing you there!
Brian I. Chappell
President
Brian & Norma Chappell
21 Bedford St.,
Bedford NS, B4A 1W7
Ph. (902) 835-4843
Fax. (902) 835-9624
E-mail: chappell(at)ns.sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
Are you familiar with the offering from ControlVision? AnyWhereMap
Checklists.
If you go to their website you can get some details:
http://www.anywheremap.com/pages/checklists.htm
Also, there is an offering I think that is called "Listpro" offered by ...
Illium?? that allows one to develop their own.
Hope this helps.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:43 AM
> To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: iPAQ Check List
>
>
> Hi all...
>
> Anyone have a lead on a checklist application that runs on the iPAQ? Free
> would be best, but a reasonably priced one would work too... Thanks!
>
> -Bill
> http://www.vondane.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Stanley Sport Aviation/EAA chapter 305 flyin |
Listers
My last post forwarding info on the above flyin did not include the airport
that you have to fly into to take part. The orginal email was to people who
are aware of where it is.
The airport is Stanley Nova Scotia, CCW4 in your various data bases, N45 06
02 W63 55 14 for those who have to program.
There should be a number of RV's on the field over the weekend.
Thanks
Joe Hine
C-FYTQ RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | rolling your own LRI |
That was exactly my reaction to the post. I bought the part of the PSS AoA
that needed to be installed in the wing several years ago now, and have been
waiting to buy the last part of it. A few months ago someone on the list
wanted to sell his computer part. I talked to him, then exchanged e-mails
with the proprietor of AoA, who offered to update the software to the most
recent if I did buy the used system. I didn't buy the used computer, but I
certainly considered him (Proprietary Software Systems) more than helpful to
deal with.
Terry
Surprising. My impression of the PSS people has been that they are
helpful and professional, and they have a good product. Are you sure
you weren't at the JPI booth?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> Subject: RV-List: rolling your own LRI
>
>
> -->
>
>
> Re: rolling your own LRI "Back to the LRI/AOA. I think
> this could be
> made better without spending
> $1500 that PSS wants for their AOA Pro. "
>
> FWIW, I saw PSS when they first appeared at OSH. I had seen
> the ads in SA and was intrigued. My buddy and I (he's a
> working aeronautical engineer and an aerobatic competitor,
> I'm a professional pilot with a background in engineering,
> and both of us are building airplanes) asked the proprietor
> 'how their system worked'. His answer was 'I don't have
> time to explain it, and you wouldn't understand anyway.' He
> then went back to chatting with a fella behind his counter.
> Well, that's just not the level of product support I'm
> looking for, especially for 1,500 bucks. Also, if he can't
> make us understand his product to my satisfaction, it's not
> going on my aircraft. Just one experience, and perhaps
> others love this guy and his product, but it'll NEVER fly on
> our machines.
>
> glen
> -8 QB fuse upside down
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: iPAQ Check List |
Anywhere map now has one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
You gotta hate it when this happens.
Anyone now the details?
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 43EM Make/Model: RV3 Description: RV-3
Date: 08/25/2002 Time: 1852
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: JEFFREY State: WY Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT LOST PROPELLER IN FLIGHT. JEFFREY CITY, WY
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR RWL 251853Z 26007G16KT 10SM CLR 27/M04 A3028
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
Departed: Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont: UNKN
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: CASPER, WY (NM04) Entry date: 08/26/2002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost Propeller |
Gotta wonder if wood or constant speed.
Either way, Kudos to the guy for getting it down apparently safely with
a mild (wood) or drastic (constant speed) change to aft CG!
I _like_ it when the motorglider gets quiet. In an RV it's gotta be a
bitch!
- Mike
--- Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> You gotta hate it when this happens.
>
> Anyone now the details?
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 43EM Make/Model: RV3 Description: RV-3
> Date: 08/25/2002 Time: 1852
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N
> Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: JEFFREY State: WY Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT LOST PROPELLER IN FLIGHT. JEFFREY CITY, WY
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV (Reserved)
Ex-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca> |
| Subject: | PSS customer service-- was rolling your own LRI |
asked the proprietor
'how their system worked'. His answer was 'I don't have time to
explain
it, and you wouldn't understand anyway.' He then went back to
chatting
with a fella behind his counter.
When I first bought my RV9 kit at Arlington a few years ago, I went
over to talk to the AOA guy as I was quite impressed with his product at his
forum. I'm used to vendors not taking me too seriously because of my age,
but this guy was downright rude! He couldn't be bothered to give me the time
of day.
The second year that I went to Arlington, I stopped at his booth &
he was a little more receptive until he found that I was more than half done
an RV, suddenly I was his best friend.
I then asked him why he was such an ***hole to me the year before at
which he got real red in the face and started spewing excuses about being
busy, it must have been his assistant, etc.
I resisted the overwhelming urge to tell him to kiss my a**, but
instead used the opportunity to bargain him down. I ended up buying the
complete AOA sport at a $100usd discount.
I have it installed in my aircraft now and expect it to provide
valuable info, however if I was currently considering buying one, I feel
that it would be better to wait for Dynon to begin shipping their unit
complete with aoa info.
At the time he said that they would send out notice of software
updates which I've not received any yet (just over a year old) but another
post indicates that there may be a new update available. I will contact PSS
to find out, but this may be another indication of their service.
Even though I didn't particularly care for his attitude, I do feel
his product concept is one of the better designs, but I've not yet flown
with it.
Just my $.02
S. Todd Bartrim
13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (finish kit)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
RE: RV-List: PSS customer service-- was rolling your own
LRI
asked the proprietor
'how their system worked'. His
answer was 'I don't have time to explain
it, and you wouldn't understand
anyway.' He then went back to chatting
with a fella behind his counter.
When I first bought my RV9 kit at Arlington a few years
ago, I went over to talk to the AOA guy as I was quite impressed with
his product at his forum. I'm used to vendors not taking me too
seriously because of my age, but this guy was downright rude! He
couldn't be bothered to give me the time of day.
The second year that I went to Arlington, I stopped at
his booth he was a little more receptive until he found that I
was more than half done an RV, suddenly I was his best
friend.
I then asked him why he was such an ***hole to me the
year before at which he got real red in the face and started spewing
excuses about being busy, it must have been his assistant,
etc.
I resisted the overwhelming urge to tell him to kiss my
a**, but instead used the opportunity to bargain him down. I ended up
buying the complete AOA sport at a $100usd discount.
I have it installed in my aircraft now and expect it to
provide valuable info, however if I was currently considering buying
one, I feel that it would be better to wait for Dynon to begin shipping
their unit complete with aoa info.
At the time he said that they would send out notice of
software updates which I've not received any yet (just over a year old)
but another post indicates that there may be a new update available. I
will contact PSS to find out, but this may be another indication of
their service.
Even though I didn't particularly care for his attitude,
I do feel his product concept is one of the better designs, but I've
not yet flown with it.
Just my $.02
S. Todd Bartrim
13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (finish kit)
C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rolling your own LRI |
I also have to agree. I've dealt with PSS over the last three years and have had
nothing but a good experience. I suspect your experience is not the norm but
I understand exactly how you feel. I had a similar situation with Hooker Harnesses.
At one of the major shows a number of years ago the owner acted like
a complete jerk and couldn't have cared less if he sold anyone a restraint system.
Although I'll never buy anything from Hooker, my negative event doesn't
seem to represent what most on this list have experienced. It's nice to have
options.
Rick McBride
In a message dated Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:27:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, terry(at)tcwatson.com
writes:
>
>
> That was exactly my reaction to the post. I bought the part of the PSS AoA
> that needed to be installed in the wing several years ago now, and have been
> waiting to buy the last part of it. A few months ago someone on the list
> wanted to sell his computer part. I talked to him, then exchanged e-mails
> with the proprietor of AoA, who offered to update the software to the most
> recent if I did buy the used system. I didn't buy the used computer, but I
> certainly considered him (Proprietary Software Systems) more than helpful to
> deal with.
>
>
> Terry
>
>
> Surprising. My impression of the PSS people has been that they are
> helpful and professional, and they have a good product. Are you sure
> you weren't at the JPI booth?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
> > Subject: RV-List: rolling your own LRI
> >
> >
> > -->
> >
> >
> > Re: rolling your own LRI "Back to the LRI/AOA. I think
> > this could be
> > made better without spending
> > $1500 that PSS wants for their AOA Pro. "
> >
> > FWIW, I saw PSS when they first appeared at OSH. I had seen
> > the ads in SA and was intrigued. My buddy and I (he's a
> > working aeronautical engineer and an aerobatic competitor,
> > I'm a professional pilot with a background in engineering,
> > and both of us are building airplanes) asked the proprietor
> > 'how their system worked'. His answer was 'I don't have
> > time to explain it, and you wouldn't understand anyway.' He
> > then went back to chatting with a fella behind his counter.
> > Well, that's just not the level of product support I'm
> > looking for, especially for 1,500 bucks. Also, if he can't
> > make us understand his product to my satisfaction, it's not
> > going on my aircraft. Just one experience, and perhaps
> > others love this guy and his product, but it'll NEVER fly
> on
> > our machines.
> >
> > glen
> > -8 QB fuse upside down
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tampa crash....long mindless rambling |
But the problem then becomes one of interpretation.
Until I get my -6A done, I'm in a flying club to stay somewhat proficient (and
simply because I like to fly :-) that is struggling with these issues. Last
summer, a club member was ejected for "running low on fuel" although he landed
with almost exactly legal VFR reserves in the tank and therefore clearly didn't
not violate any FAA rules on the subject. There were no documented cases
of this happening with this member previously; this was the first time anyone
was aware of it. The member stated he was well aware of his fuel situation
and calculated he would land with VFR reserves when he was about 50nm away.
Is he an unsafe pilot because of that specific incident?
More recently, the wingtip strobe was knocked off when someone was pushing the
plane back into the hanger - a simple case of hanger rash that was easily and
quickly repaired. The individual paid for the damages and spoken to, and the
club safety officer sent out an e-mail encouraging everyone to find help to park
the aircraft, even if we have to spend a few minutes running around to find
someone to do it. The kicker was his statement that if you objected to that
idea, you were an exhibiting signs of an unsafe pilot. The safety officer,
in this case, is a private pilot with less than 200 hrs time.
In the military, there is a clear chain of command and accountability. Without
that in the civilian world, I'd tend to think that people will continue doing
dumb things until they get killed. I've been to dozens of Wings seminars put
on by the FAA, and the people who I would think would benefit the most are the
ones who never show up...so that approach apparently doesn't work.
Brad Benson, Software Architect
Computer Data Strategies, Inc.
Ph. 651-730-4156 / Fax 651-730-4161
Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1990-1951
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 8/26/2002 at 3:21 PM Boyd C. Braem wrote:
>
>OK, so Bernie and Gary have indentified the "other guy did it wrong, but I
>never
>will" theory of aviation accidents. But, what do pilots do when they have
>first
>hand knowledge of another pilot seriously screwing up? Mostly, it seems
>that
>they pop a beer and discuss it at length with all the pilots other than the
>"potential dead meat".
>
>It is easier in the military, when the CO, XO, Safety Officer or Flight
>Sturgeon
>could haul the guy (usually a junior officer) aside and say "Do that again
>and
>those wings fly off your chest!" But it still got dicey when it was your
>superior officer. Do you send an anonymous letter to the FAA for pilots
>that
>don't pre-flight, don't do adequate run-ups, don't use a check list and
>seem to
>run very low on gas on a regular basis? How about the guys who fake their
>BFR's
>and condition inspections in their log books? Fly without medical
>clearance or
>insurance? Do you gather people together for an "intervention" type
>approach?
>
>There are a couple of pilots at my airfield that I will not fly with
>because of
>their flight behavior and if asked, I will tell them why. Does it change
>their
>behaviour? Not that I can see. Do we need to organize pilot/AA-type
>meetings--"Hello, my name is George and I really screwed up yesterday,
>again--this is number 5--almost killed myself and my best friend". Would
>the
>pilots who need it most show up? I don't think that "counseling", in
>general,
>works with pilots because they tend to be too independent and tend to
>resist
>authority. Also, in flying an aircraft you have to supress to some degree
>your
>own feeling of mortality or you'd be a nervous wreck.
>
>Remember the first time you flew at night or in really bad weather and
>were over
>water or some big-ass swamp or a mountain? When you landed, you promptly
>put it
>in the back of your mind and only haul it out if you need a good hangar
>story.
>
>Basically, professional pilots make the same mistakes as GA pilots--stalls,
>CFIT, improper pre-flight planning, etc. So, it seems that we're all sort
>of
>doomed by our own human psychology???
>
>O, woe is me, doom and gloom. doom and gloom.
>
>Boyd
>never get in an airplane, again, until tommorrow!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Speaking of safety... |
With all the talk of safe flying, I thought I'd pen a note about safe building
after an accident that happened to me this weekend while working on my -6A.
After using the dreaded fly-cutter to cut all the lightening holes in the W-621
flap brace, I got out my die grinder to trim the various corners to get it to
fit against the spar. About halfway through the first cut, the wheel disintegrated
(rated to 20,000 RPM my a**!). I felt like I was punched in the face;
a piece of the wheel hit the left lens of my safety glasses so hard the frame
left a nice bruise on my cheek. Judging from the scratch on the lens, I'm
pretty sure I'd have mono vision today if I wasn't wearing my safety glasses.
As it was, I got a bruise and slight scrape from another piece of the wheel.
Most importantly, the flap brace was ok and no aircraft parts were damaged or destroyed
:-).
Cheers,
Brad Benson, Software Architect
Computer Data Strategies, Inc.
Ph. 651-730-4156 / Fax 651-730-4161
Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1990-1951
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of safety... |
I have to chime in here too... I have had crap of all kind fly into my eyes
needlessly, simply because the safety glasses I had were crap and I hated to
wear them... Recently I bought a pair or Remington shooting glasses with
the yellow tint at Wal-Mart for about $18 and they are so comfortable, I
forget I have them on...
FWIW
-Bill
www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
Subject: RV-List: Speaking of safety...
With all the talk of safe flying, I thought I'd pen a note about safe
building after an accident that happened to me this weekend while working on
my -6A.
After using the dreaded fly-cutter to cut all the lightening holes in the
W-621 flap brace, I got out my die grinder to trim the various corners to
get it to fit against the spar. About halfway through the first cut, the
wheel disintegrated (rated to 20,000 RPM my a**!). I felt like I was
punched in the face; a piece of the wheel hit the left lens of my safety
glasses so hard the frame left a nice bruise on my cheek. Judging from the
scratch on the lens, I'm pretty sure I'd have mono vision today if I wasn't
wearing my safety glasses. As it was, I got a bruise and slight scrape
from another piece of the wheel.
Most importantly, the flap brace was ok and no aircraft parts were damaged
or destroyed :-).
Cheers,
Brad Benson, Software Architect
Computer Data Strategies, Inc.
Ph. 651-730-4156 / Fax 651-730-4161
Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1990-1951
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
I bent it in my vise. Don't remember trimming any area. It will work.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
writes:
>
> List:
>
> Those of you that have installed the side steps for a 6A......I
> have
> trial fitted my first side and find that the aft edge of the step
> flange, that mounts onto the side skin, appears as though it will
> stick
> out from the surface of the side skin. This is in the area where
> the
> skin transitions to the coneshaped rear fuselage. I realize that
> the
> flange needs to be trimmed to fit in this area, but it looks like
> once I
> do that, the step tube inboard of the step flange will be exposed
> outside of the fuselage.
>
> I have the step flange clamped nicely to the bulkhead flange (F624??
>
> plans are not infront of me) as well as the side flange of F623, so
> I
> cannot extend the step inboard any further.
>
> It just seems that if I trim the step flange right to the step
> tube,
> there will be a rather ragged, unfinished looking hole in the side
> skin
> where the tube exits.
>
> What have others done?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuse
> Peshtigo, WI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | alternator pulley bolt security |
I'm having trouble keeping the bolt tight which secures the pulley to the
shaft of my Ford alternator. It is a single bolt, approximately 3/4"
(though I suspect it might be an M16 metric) and has a single lock washer
under it.
It is difficult to tighten this nut, because there's no good place to grab
the alternator shaft to keep it from turning. Doesn't look like there's any
way to safety wire it (what would you wire it to?) and the alternator shaft
is solid, so a castle nut and cotter pin doesn't sound like a solution.
Maybe a second nut tightened down on top of the first? Maybe upsetting the
threads on the end of the alternator shaft after the nut is tightened?
If anybody out there has any experience with this, I'd appreciate your
suggestions.
George
N888GK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jollyd <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: alternator pulley bolt security |
I have had that problem a time or two in the past..I take the thing off the
engine..take out the BIG waterpump plyers, hold the pulley with tthe plyers, and
tighten the nut..FIRST applying a generpous glob of lock tite ( I use red)..to
the nut..never had one come loose yet...good luck..jolly in aurora, or.
Sally and George wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Sally and George"
>
> I'm having trouble keeping the bolt tight which secures the pulley to the
> shaft of my Ford alternator. It is a single bolt, approximately 3/4"
> (though I suspect it might be an M16 metric) and has a single lock washer
> under it.
>
> It is difficult to tighten this nut, because there's no good place to grab
> the alternator shaft to keep it from turning. Doesn't look like there's any
> way to safety wire it (what would you wire it to?) and the alternator shaft
> is solid, so a castle nut and cotter pin doesn't sound like a solution.
>
> Maybe a second nut tightened down on top of the first? Maybe upsetting the
> threads on the end of the alternator shaft after the nut is tightened?
>
> If anybody out there has any experience with this, I'd appreciate your
> suggestions.
>
> George
> N888GK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley bolt security |
Red Loctite!
Wrap an old V-belt around pulley, clamp in wood padded vice to tighten.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: alternator pulley bolt security
I'm having trouble keeping the bolt tight which secures the pulley to the
shaft of my Ford alternator. It is a single bolt, approximately 3/4"
(though I suspect it might be an M16 metric) and has a single lock washer
under it.
It is difficult to tighten this nut, because there's no good place to grab
the alternator shaft to keep it from turning. Doesn't look like there's any
way to safety wire it (what would you wire it to?) and the alternator shaft
is solid, so a castle nut and cotter pin doesn't sound like a solution.
Maybe a second nut tightened down on top of the first? Maybe upsetting the
threads on the end of the alternator shaft after the nut is tightened?
If anybody out there has any experience with this, I'd appreciate your
suggestions.
George
N888GK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Canadian hombuilts not allowed in the US? |
BlankDoes this mean our buddies in Canada won't be able to visit us here
in the paranoid US anymore?
From Avweb:
CANADIAN AIRCRAFT BANNED: OWNER-MAINTENANCE RAISES CONCERNS...
For some Canadian pilots, the U.S. is one big TFR. EAA and the Canadian
Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) are battling an FAA ruling that
banned hundreds of aircraft from flying in the U.S. beginning this past
July 26. Canadian pilots who look after their own maintenance
previously could obtain Special Flight Authorizations (SFAs) to cross
the border, but now certificated aircraft that are operated under the
Owner-Maintenance (O-M) category, introduced in 2000, are not granted
passage. Under O-M, the owner can perform virtually all normal
maintenance and repairs without an air maintenance engineer signing off
on the work. Dozens of aircraft types qualify.
...SAFETY CONCERNS CITED
David Cairn, manager of the FAA's aircraft maintenance division,
initiated the ban with a July 26 letter saying that O-M aircraft can be
worked on by unqualified people without supervision and don't have to
comply with ADs or use approved parts in repairs. He said that's too
far from U.S. standards for certificated aircraft. COPA and EAA claim
many of the O-M rules are the same as U.S. rules for homebuilts. The
U.S. has allowed Canadian homebuilts to operate under SFAs for 20 years
and still does.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley bolt security |
In a message dated 8/26/02 3:18:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
aeronut58(at)hotmail.com writes:
> I'm having trouble keeping the bolt tight which secures the pulley to the
> shaft of my Ford alternator.
George, I installed that bolt with a 3/8 drive impact wrench
(air) have had no problems.
Fred LaForge RV-4 180 cs EAA tech counselor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary & Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian hombuilts not allowed in the US? |
The last line of the article you send states:
The U.S. has allowed Canadian homebuilts to operate under SFAs for 20 years
and still does.
Gary
Mike Nellis wrote:
>
> BlankDoes this mean our buddies in Canada won't be able to visit us here
> in the paranoid US anymore?
>
> >From Avweb:
>
> CANADIAN AIRCRAFT BANNED: OWNER-MAINTENANCE RAISES CONCERNS...
> For some Canadian pilots, the U.S. is one big TFR. EAA and the Canadian
> Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) are battling an FAA ruling that
> banned hundreds of aircraft from flying in the U.S. beginning this past
> July 26. Canadian pilots who look after their own maintenance
> previously could obtain Special Flight Authorizations (SFAs) to cross
> the border, but now certificated aircraft that are operated under the
> Owner-Maintenance (O-M) category, introduced in 2000, are not granted
> passage. Under O-M, the owner can perform virtually all normal
> maintenance and repairs without an air maintenance engineer signing off
> on the work. Dozens of aircraft types qualify.
>
> ...SAFETY CONCERNS CITED
> David Cairn, manager of the FAA's aircraft maintenance division,
> initiated the ban with a July 26 letter saying that O-M aircraft can be
> worked on by unqualified people without supervision and don't have to
> comply with ADs or use approved parts in repairs. He said that's too
> far from U.S. standards for certificated aircraft. COPA and EAA claim
> many of the O-M rules are the same as U.S. rules for homebuilts. The
> U.S. has allowed Canadian homebuilts to operate under SFAs for 20 years
> and still does.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian hombuilts not allowed in the US? |
>
>BlankDoes this mean our buddies in Canada won't be able to visit us here
>in the paranoid US anymore?
>
>From Avweb:
>
>CANADIAN AIRCRAFT BANNED: OWNER-MAINTENANCE RAISES CONCERNS...
>For some Canadian pilots, the U.S. is one big TFR. EAA and the Canadian
>Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) are battling an FAA ruling that
>banned hundreds of aircraft from flying in the U.S. beginning this past
>July 26. Canadian pilots who look after their own maintenance
>previously could obtain Special Flight Authorizations (SFAs) to cross
>the border, but now certificated aircraft that are operated under the
>Owner-Maintenance (O-M) category, introduced in 2000, are not granted
>passage. Under O-M, the owner can perform virtually all normal
>maintenance and repairs without an air maintenance engineer signing off
>on the work. Dozens of aircraft types qualify.
>
>...SAFETY CONCERNS CITED
>David Cairn, manager of the FAA's aircraft maintenance division,
>initiated the ban with a July 26 letter saying that O-M aircraft can be
>worked on by unqualified people without supervision and don't have to
>comply with ADs or use approved parts in repairs. He said that's too
>far from U.S. standards for certificated aircraft. COPA and EAA claim
>many of the O-M rules are the same as U.S. rules for homebuilts. The
>U.S. has allowed Canadian homebuilts to operate under SFAs for 20 years
>and still does.
>
The Owner Maintenance category in Canada is not the same as
homebuilts. Owner Maintenance category is restricted to a specific
list of older models that no longer have adequate support the
factory. Think Stinson, Taylorcraft, Piper Cub, etc. It had become
almost impossible to find parts for those aircraft that had the
proper paperwork, so it was very difficult to legally keep many of
them flying. If the aircraft is one of the models on a very specific
list, the owner has the option to move it to the Owner Maintenance
category. Then he can maintain and modify it as he sees fit, much as
if it was a homebuilt. There is no internationally accepted
equivalent to Owner Maintenance, so other countries are not obligated
to allow these aircraft to enter their airspace.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley bolt security |
Hi George,
If you don't have a powerful air driven impact wrench; take the alternator
to an auto shop and ask them to tighten the nut for you. That is the way its
done on the ground pounders and the nuts on theses units never come off.
Of course having said they never come off will elicit more than one
statement to the contrary I'm sure.
I expect that the belt around pulley in a vise with red Loctite on the
threads suggestion will also get the job done.
Real mechanics do it with impact wrenches (;-}!!
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: alternator pulley bolt security
>
>
> I'm having trouble keeping the bolt tight which secures the pulley to the
> shaft of my Ford alternator. It is a single bolt, approximately 3/4"
> (though I suspect it might be an M16 metric) and has a single lock washer
> under it.
>
> It is difficult to tighten this nut, because there's no good place to grab
> the alternator shaft to keep it from turning. Doesn't look like there's
any
> way to safety wire it (what would you wire it to?) and the alternator
shaft
> is solid, so a castle nut and cotter pin doesn't sound like a solution.
>
> Maybe a second nut tightened down on top of the first? Maybe upsetting
the
> threads on the end of the alternator shaft after the nut is tightened?
>
> If anybody out there has any experience with this, I'd appreciate your
> suggestions.
>
> George
> N888GK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV's in Atlanta Area |
Dear List,
Is there anyone in the Atlanta, GA area that would
like to get together and look at their project, talk
RV, have dinner, or point me towards an area RV. I am
in town for a week and would would like to see an area
bird or atleast the feathers.
Best,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7, Waitn on the fuse
Coeur d'Alene, ID
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Is anyone aware of an on-line illustrated guide to hose installation?
The one in the Wicks catalog is a start, but I need all the help I came
get! This is for a 666 medium pressure teflon hose.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lost Propeller |
Back in the '80's Van had an article in the RVator about this. He had,I
believe 3 , broken bolts in his RV-4 prototype. This was due to bolts being
loose. The power impulses on these 4 Cyl. opposed engines really work on
loose bolts! There is no friction between prop and engine flange .
The prop bolts should be checked ( With torque wrench ) after 5 hours on a
new plane, then at no more than 25 hour intervals. Losing one can easily ruin
your whole DAY & PLANE !
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X .
Charleston Ark.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
Hi all:
>
> I think someone needs to contact Van's if several of you are having a
> problem. My original Van's canopy had plenty of material on both sides.
>
I agree. My 8A canopy had at least an inch of material beyond the tube frame on
the sides. Front and rear had more than that. Unless they have changed the
mold, I cannot imagine how canopies would have fit fine a few months ago and
now are too small.
> The only "major" modification involve bending the back of the canopy frame
> as shown in the plans (so that the trailing edge of the frame was the
> correct height above the top of the fuselage) . . . and on the front side,
> bending out the roll bar (wind screen support) to properly fit the width of
> the fuselage.
FYI my windshield bow not only had to be bent outwards, but also was badly
magnetized, to the point where the vertical card compass I had for the panel was
worthless. Unfortunately I did not know this until I had installed the bow. A
call to Gus at Vans sent him scurryring to the shop to check the rest with a
galvanometer. All were magnetized. I had to remove the bow and take it to a
demag place to have the problem solved. Tried it myself with many turns of wire
and a large transformer but the field was too strong to break down. Just a
heads up.
Bill Marvel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: floor heat |
During the summer months I disconnect the skat from the heat muff and connect it
direct to the cold air intake
for the muff. If not long enough you can splice a length in by just screwing it
in between. In the fall I reconnect the heat at oil change time. During summer
this provides an additional adjustable cold air supply down by my feet.
gene williams
----- Original Message -----
From: Sally and George
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: floor heat
Stan:
Don't know if you have a heater fitting in the firewall or not. I do, and
had a lot of air leaking around the flapper even when it was shut. A
healthy application of high temp RTV around the flapper fixed it, and I've
had no problem with heat transfer since.
George
N888GK
71 hours
>From: N188rv(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV8-List: floor heat
>Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:58:48 EDT
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: N188rv(at)aol.com
>
>I have 60 plus hours on my RV-8 now and am having trouble with heat in the
>floor behid firewall. Engine temps are all good but am getting a lot of
>heat
>transfer on to the feet. Any ideas?
>
>Stan
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost Propeller |
What about safety-wiring the bolts? I have yet to see a wooden
propellor at my airport that didn't have safety wire on the bolts.
Wouldn't this be a great indicator that the bolts were loosening? Or
better yet, a prevention from that happening in the first place?
-Rob P.
RV-7 Empennage
rv7 "at" b4.ca
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Back in the '80's Van had an article in the RVator about this. He had,I
>believe 3 , broken bolts in his RV-4 prototype. This was due to bolts being
>loose. The power impulses on these 4 Cyl. opposed engines really work on
>loose bolts! There is no friction between prop and engine flange .
>The prop bolts should be checked ( With torque wrench ) after 5 hours on a
>new plane, then at no more than 25 hour intervals. Losing one can easily ruin
>your whole DAY & PLANE !
>Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X .
>Charleston Ark.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I finally got started on my prop governor oil line. I'm using Aeroquip
666 flexline. I'm routing it in the same general area as the solid SS
line would go. Is it taboo to use cushion clamps on the intake tubes to
anchor this line, or is that fine? What about firesleeve?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup |
Joe,
Would you explain how you wire the idiot lite to the alternator (and I
assume the battery to the alt.) for this "test"? Thanks,
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Hine <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
>
> Gentlemen
>
> One other thing you can do with alternator wiring is hook up the idiot
> light. This is a good master switch on warning light. I have it hooked
up
> to a large red light in my 4, but you could use a light and a buzzer as
> well.
>
> The wiring is a little weird, you basicly send power to both sides of the
> light. ie, a 12 volt wire from the wire harness, and another wire from
the
> light to the terminal that is for the light on the alternator. What
happens
> is when the alternator is not turning, it acts as the ground for the
light,
> once it startes producing power, it sends power to the light as well,
there
> is now no ground and the light goes out.
>
> Its saved me a dead battery a couple of times.
>
> Joe Hine
> RV4 C-FYTQ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jamesbaldwin(at)attglobal.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
>
>
> >
> > Tom-
> > If you take it to your local auto electrical establishment they will
tell
> you
> > what each terminal is probably by simply looking at it. There are only
a
> couple
> > of things an alternator needs -- field excitation, ground and output.
> This is
> > not a big thing to figure out and worst case they can look at it
> electrically.
> > JBB
> >
> > Tom and Faye wrote:
> >
> > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > I wish I had more information. All I know is that it is a Kragen
Import
> > > Alternator. All it has is a paper label with their P/N and a barcode.
> > > There is no manufacture info at all. They could sell me a replacement
> with
> > > the info I have but they can't tell me what it's for or how it gets
> hooked
> > > up electrically.
> > > I guess their computers don't work that direction.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't mind having your drawing though. It might help.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your response.
> > > Tom Rupe
> > > RV4 S/N 62
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> > >
> > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
>
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Rupe,
> > > >
> > > > Is this the Nippondenso alternator from a Geo Metro/ Chevy Sprint??
> > > > If so, e-mail me and I will send you a diagram.
> > > >
> > > > Later,
> > > > Linc
> > > > Subject: RV4-List: Alternator Hookup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> RV4-List message posted by: "Tom and Faye"
> > > > >
> > > > > As part of my rebuild project, I'm putting all new electrical wire
> in my
> > > > > RV4, and have run into a snag with the alternator. It is a
Kragen
> > > Import
> > > > > 60 amp, P/N 30-5088 MPA with and internal regulator. Besides the
B
> > > > > terminal it has a round hole for a three pin connector. I don't
> have
> > > the
> > > > > connector and the pins are not marked so I don't have a clue which
> pin I
> > > > > need to connect the 12 volts to in order to turn the Alternator on
> or
> > > off.
> > > > > The Kragan people could not help.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm hoping someone out there has already been there and done that.
> I
> > > > know
> > > > > Vans sells a connector for their alternators and I'm also sending
> them
> > > an
> > > > > e-mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Tom Rupe
> > > > > RV4 S/N 62
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> > > > Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> > > > Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost Propeller |
The problem isn't loosening bolts it's the shrinkage of the wood. THEN the
bolts get loose and the safety wire won't help. The wood shrinks or
expands with changing humidity. On a wood prop the bolts clamp the prop
between the crank flange and the crush plate. The prop stays in place by
virtue of the friction against the prop flange and the bolts only provide
the perpendicular force. The bolts are not intended to transfer the torque
of the engine. Bolts (in this application) are tensile elements not shear pins.
Mike
>
>What about safety-wiring the bolts? I have yet to see a wooden
>propellor at my airport that didn't have safety wire on the bolts.
> Wouldn't this be a great indicator that the bolts were loosening? Or
>better yet, a prevention from that happening in the first place?
>
>-Rob P.
> RV-7 Empennage
> rv7 "at" b4.ca
>
>Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Back in the '80's Van had an article in the RVator about this. He had,I
> >believe 3 , broken bolts in his RV-4 prototype. This was due to bolts being
> >loose. The power impulses on these 4 Cyl. opposed engines really work on
> >loose bolts! There is no friction between prop and engine flange .
> >The prop bolts should be checked ( With torque wrench ) after 5 hours on a
> >new plane, then at no more than 25 hour intervals. Losing one can easily
> ruin
> >your whole DAY & PLANE !
> >Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X .
> >Charleston Ark.
> >
> >
>
>
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Gov line |
Hi Larry,
I believe the generally accepted practice is to attach the prop governor
flex line with two Adel clamps to the crank case sump mounting bolts. Doing
this will mean that longer bolts by about 1/8" might be required.
There will be a lot of pressure pulsing this line so be sure to use best
quality strong clamps.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: Prop Gov line
>
> I finally got started on my prop governor oil line. I'm using Aeroquip
> 666 flexline. I'm routing it in the same general area as the solid SS
> line would go. Is it taboo to use cushion clamps on the intake tubes to
> anchor this line, or is that fine? What about firesleeve?
>
> Thx,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost Propeller |
IIRC there was a series of lost wooden propellers in the early 90's due to
undersized prop extension spools. I have never heard anything of this since one
was lost lost here in Sydney Australia. The propellor was lost overhead an
airfield (Hoxton Park), the airplane is still flying and a premier example of an
RV-4, scratch built no less (by Peter Hodgins).
The problem with the spool was that the wall thickness had been too thin. Exact
thickness of good and bad parts...too long ago to recall.
Doug Gray
RV6 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ & LM Tennant" <dltenno(at)hotmail.com> |
What is the recomended tension for 7/16th prop bolts on a Rv6 with 0-320 and
wood prop?
Dave Tennant
RV 6 australia
VH-DJT 5hrs
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices--does anyone have one? |
Hi JR,
You completely overlooked Tracy Crook and the rotary. Tracy has about 1300
hours on his 4 and is currently building a 3 rotor 8. There are a number of
folks out there currently flying with rotaries: Ed Anderson , Finn Lassen,
Dave Atkins, and Chuck Dunlap are all flying RV powered rotaries. I am
flying a 6A with 0-320(new from Vans $$$) and currently building a 9A with a
rotary. The basic engine and accessories came from Bruce Turrentine ($3500)
and the gear reduction, ECU/EFI, and motor mount from Tracy (
www.rotaryaviation.com ) for about $4500.
The Eggenfellner suburu is a very neat looking package, but until some
reliable source delivers some real flight data, like flying wing to wing
with and 0-360 at altitude, and some demo of overhaul hours; I would be very
sceptical.
>OK, so then, has anyone ever flown behind any of these engines or actually
>even own one in an RV
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices--does anyone have one? |
Hi JR,
There are (at last count) approx 15 RV's flying with rotary engines,
there are another 15 or so aircraft such as the canards and Glastars flying
rotaries. As Bernie mentioned, Tracy Crook has the undisputed max time with
a rotary in an RV-4, there are several RVs flying with several hundred hours
of rotary time. The engine is very robust and bullet proof. All
installations are roll-your-own, so as you might imagine there are
considerable differences from installation to installation in design and
implementation. However, there are finally several individuals offering
components for the rotary engine in an RV such as motor mounts, gear boxes,
electronic EFI, etc. Tracy Crook is probably your best one stop shopping
center as he also has a conversion manuel.
I fly an RV-6a with a rotary engine and have over 150 hours on it. If
you get interested, there are two e mail list that focus on the conversion
of the rotary for aircraft use and well worth lurking on to see if that is
what you may want to use as a power plant. Contact me off the list if
interested.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
> Hi JR,
>
> You completely overlooked Tracy Crook and the rotary. Tracy has about 1300
> hours on his 4 and is currently building a 3 rotor 8. There are a number
of
> folks out there currently flying with rotaries: Ed Anderson , Finn Lassen,
> Dave Atkins, and Chuck Dunlap are all flying RV powered rotaries. I am
> flying a 6A with 0-320(new from Vans $$$) and currently building a 9A with
a
> rotary. The basic engine and accessories came from Bruce Turrentine
($3500)
> and the gear reduction, ECU/EFI, and motor mount from Tracy (
> www.rotaryaviation.com ) for about $4500.
>
> The Eggenfellner suburu is a very neat looking package, but until some
> reliable source delivers some real flight data, like flying wing to wing
> with and 0-360 at altitude, and some demo of overhaul hours; I would be
very
> sceptical.
>
>
> >OK, so then, has anyone ever flown behind any of these engines or
actually
> >even own one in an RV
>
August 21, 2002 - August 27, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ni