RV-Archive.digest.vol-qh
December 20, 2004 - December 31, 2004
his initial euphoria evaporated many months later when the state became
aware of the purchase and he was held liable for substantial customs fees
and penalties. This one event effectively and dramatically narrowed the
margin he enjoyed over buying a new OEM Ly
> coming
> engine (read domestic) through Van's. He now tells me that Nationair is
balking at renewing his builders insurance because their position is they
are not inclined to cover an under-construction aircraft they do not intend
to cover when flying. Seems he was told by "someone" at Nationair they now
consider the AeroSport to be an "experimental" engine. In addition, new
policies will no longer be written to cover the insured for construction
time, typically $15 an hour. Now what I have just related to this list
should be considered hearsay..... that is.....only my personal
interpretation of details as he related the events to me. If anyone out
there has had similar untoward experiences that can substantiate these
claims, particularly as it relates to insurance matters, it would be helpful
for members of this list to be cognizant of any such developments.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" N307R "finished"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
I'm trying to decided whether to buy a TSOed Sensitive Altimeter or
NON-TSOed?
My concern is accuracy (obviously) and Pitot/Static System Checks.
Are NON-TSOed Altimeters accurate enough to pass the test?
Has anyone researched this issues?
I will be operating some IFR.
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Notice to carbureted engine users |
Bryan,
Carb Ice might be rare in your neck of the woods, but it's
very common place here in New England. You should add to your
flying checklist to pull the carb heat once in a while. It
should also be part of your rough engine check list.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Just wanted to pass along what I thought was a new learning experience for
me yesterday.
Here's a little background - I have a 4 year old RV-8 with about 688 hrs on
engine and airframe. Engine is a 160-hp O-320 with a Marvel Shebler MA-4SPA
carb.
I had some rough engine issues and it recently it started becoming hard to
shut down. I rebuilt the old carb 688 hrs ago, and was looking for an
excuse to buy a factory reconditioned one. There it was. Bought one from
Kelly Aerospace. Was a first class product, well packaged and assembled.
After the quick swap, I fired up the plane and ended up flying 2-3 hrs
Saturday with nothing but good performance. Sunday I flew another 2 hrs or
so, but noticed a problem while approaching to land. One of my flying
buddies was departing, so I decided to asked for the low appch to follow my
buddy out of the ATA. When I got full power applied, it began missing about
once or twice every second or so. Wasn't enough to cause a noticable loss
of power, but made me mad more than anything! I wanted to go fly and I had
just dropped a few bills on the new carb.
On climb out at the airport, I switched tanks, boost on, changed rpm setting
(for some reason), changed power, mag check - the problem never went away
while at cruise power in the downwind so I asked for landing clearance.
Back at the hanger, I did a power and mag check. Checked for water in the
fuel. No problems.
About 2 hrs later I made another test flight to confirm my theory, and had
no problems. Nor could I reproduce the problem though.
Conclusion - I believe, for the first time that I'm aware of in nearly 700
hrs, I had carb ice. With the new, "tighter" carb and induction system
(which I coincidentally sealed up with RTV when I swapped carbs), I believe
it iced up.
Conditions were marginal for ice, IMO - 65F OAT, 28F dewpoint. But the info
I found below shows the ice as possible.
www.nawcad.navy.mil/flyingclub/
training%20presentations%5CCarburetor%20Ice%5CCarburetor%20Ice.ppt
Just something to consider.
Bryan Jones
Houston, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TSO vs non-TSO |
Bob,
Why would you risk your life on a non-TSO'ed Altimeter while
flying IFR? Spend the extra $$$ and do it right....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Serious IFR Pilot
Subject: TSO vs non-TSO
From: Maureen & Bob Christensen (mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net)
Date: Mon Dec 20 - 11:45 AM
I'm trying to decided whether to buy a TSOed Sensitive Altimeter or
NON-TSOed?
My concern is accuracy (obviously) and Pitot/Static System Checks.
Are NON-TSOed Altimeters accurate enough to pass the test?
Has anyone researched this issues?
I will be operating some IFR.
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
Listers,
Red RTV works, but kind of hard to apply and get into the fibres because
it's thick. A product I've used that works great is called "Disc Brake Quiet"
at
AV dept. of NAPA. It's for stopping brake squealing when applied to back of
brake pads, so is def hi-temp stuff. It is more liquid so is absorbed
readily into the glass strands of firesleeve and sets up rubbery. It's even red
to
match the firesleeve... :)
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 12/19/2004 11:59:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
As for Using the RTV on the ends of the firesleeve, Yes by all means use it.
It is used to stop oils ,cleaning solvents and environmental contaminants
from creeping into the ends of the firesleeve.and damaging the otherwise
protected hose.
There is an actual industrial product that has been designed for that
purpose. I expect it is a liquid form of silicone?. I cannot offer a name or
contact info for supply source etc. Maybe ACS could find it. I had a small
container given to me and it soon set up into a hard rubber mass after
coming in contact with air. Very short shelf life!. don't by a large volume.
In use it does work better than the RTV.
The people who make the firesleeve most likely make the stuff. I have a
length of Parker Stratoflex firesleeve but found nothing tangible on the
web.
Carry on Hoser, {[;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TSO vs non-TSO |
Sounds like I am wrong here, but I thought you can buy 2 different parts
made by the same company one is TSO'd the other is not and they are exactly
the same except for the paper work right? There again the cost difference
on an altimeter is not really that much, if it is bothering you, get the
TSO'd one.
>
>
>Bob,
>
> Why would you risk your life on a non-TSO'ed Altimeter while
>flying IFR? Spend the extra $$$ and do it right....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>Serious IFR Pilot
>
>
>Subject: TSO vs non-TSO
>From: Maureen & Bob Christensen (mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net)
>Date: Mon Dec 20 - 11:45 AM
>
>
>
>I'm trying to decided whether to buy a TSOed Sensitive Altimeter or
>NON-TSOed?
>
>My concern is accuracy (obviously) and Pitot/Static System Checks.
>
>Are NON-TSOed Altimeters accurate enough to pass the test?
>
>Has anyone researched this issues?
>
>I will be operating some IFR.
>
>Thanks,
>Bob Christensen
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TSO vs non-TSO |
my 2 cents - save the money! If it checks out 0-20,000' when they check it
for the 24 mo check, I'd go with it. Last IFR check on mine, all they
wanted was the mfgr and S/N on the altimeter. Pretty sure it's not TSOd.
In my case I have back ups - an EFIS in my case. Most have this or a blind
encoder. besides - when has anyone been IFR and not had to confirm your
reported and observed altitude..... Would know pretty quick is one was off.
Bryan
>
>Sounds like I am wrong here, but I thought you can buy 2 different parts
>made by the same company one is TSO'd the other is not and they are exactly
>the same except for the paper work right? There again the cost difference
>on an altimeter is not really that much, if it is bothering you, get the
>TSO'd one.
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> > Why would you risk your life on a non-TSO'ed Altimeter while
> >flying IFR? Spend the extra $$$ and do it right....
> >
> >Fred Stucklen
> >RV-6A N926RV
> >Serious IFR Pilot
> >
> >
> >Subject: TSO vs non-TSO
> >From: Maureen & Bob Christensen (mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net)
> >Date: Mon Dec 20 - 11:45 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm trying to decided whether to buy a TSOed Sensitive Altimeter or
> >NON-TSOed?
> >
> >My concern is accuracy (obviously) and Pitot/Static System Checks.
> >
> >Are NON-TSOed Altimeters accurate enough to pass the test?
> >
> >Has anyone researched this issues?
> >
> >I will be operating some IFR.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bob Christensen
> >
> >
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan Grant" <gra9933(at)bellsouth.net> |
I would try to build one out of a vacuum cleaner, first. Its a small risk
that could definitely pay off. If it doesn't work, you could always buy a
hobbyair. I have one, incidentally, and it works great, but it was
expensive.
I would definitely buy a hood, though. You can get Tyvek hoods that have the
air go up over your head and fill up the hood. They aren't that expensive.
Good luck,
Jordan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg@itmack
Subject: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro
Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments.
Thanks
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
I thinned the RTV. I'm happy with how it turned out.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/01/firesleeve_dres.html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com [mailto:Jerry2DT(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:09 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Firesleeve: Sealing ends
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Red RTV works, but kind of hard to apply and get into the
> fibres because it's thick. A product I've used that works
> great is called "Disc Brake Quiet" at AV dept. of NAPA.
> It's for stopping brake squealing when applied to back of
> brake pads, so is def hi-temp stuff. It is more liquid so is
> absorbed readily into the glass strands of firesleeve and
> sets up rubbery. It's even red to match the firesleeve... :)
>
> Jerry Cochran
>
> In a message dated 12/19/2004 11:59:28 P.M. Pacific Standard
> Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> As for Using the RTV on the ends of the firesleeve, Yes by
> all means use it.
> It is used to stop oils ,cleaning solvents and environmental
> contaminants from creeping into the ends of the
> firesleeve.and damaging the otherwise protected hose.
> There is an actual industrial product that has been designed
> for that purpose. I expect it is a liquid form of silicone?.
> I cannot offer a name or contact info for supply source etc.
> Maybe ACS could find it. I had a small container given to me
> and it soon set up into a hard rubber mass after coming in
> contact with air. Very short shelf life!. don't by a large volume.
> In use it does work better than the RTV.
> The people who make the firesleeve most likely make the
> stuff. I have a length of Parker Stratoflex firesleeve but
> found nothing tangible on the web.
>
> Carry on Hoser, {[;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> oranges |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to |
oranges
Dan
Thanks for the great info. I really appreciate the temperature data. As
an auto mechanic with 30 years experience, I know that toasting the
rectifier diodes destroys lots of alternators. I have a Rocky Mountain
MicroMonitor in my 8A project. It allows me to add up to 3 additional
sensor inputs. It also allows me to set alarm points for all sensors,
including the "user defined" ones.
Can you suggest a thermistor which would be small enough and durable enough
to be used to monitor the rectifier diode heat sink??
Charlie Kuss
>
>W,
>
>I agree with most of what you have said, but I wonder where you heard that
>the auto ratings of alternators are not for continuous duty? Although my
>experience working for Delco Electronics on their regulator program dates
>back to
>the 1960s, those ratings were for continuous operation. How would the
>operator
>of a car know to reduce the load on his electrical system?
>
>Alternators are self limiting in their current capacity at a given rpm.
>(Generators before them had to be protected by a current limiting coil in the
>voltage regulator.) That's where that amperage rating comes from. We
>used 6000
>rpm as the "standard" test rpm. When loaded slightly greater than their
>output
>current rating, the voltage drops causing the field current to drop resulting
>in a foldback, and that is all you get. Of course, the same thing happens at
>other rpms, but at different output currents. Lower at lower rpm, and
>slightly higher at higher rpm. Alternators are designed to have enough
>cooling air
>(the fan) that in the under hood environment (about 125 degrees C.) they will
>not self-destruct regardless of the load. An alternator is approximately 50
>percent efficient, meaning that it dissipates about 490 watts internally when
>it delivers 35 amps at 14 volts. To keep the internal temperature safe,
>cooling air is required.
>
>Many automobile alternators turn backwards when used in an airplane. I think
>that is why Van's discards the fan. The certificated airplanes that use
>alternators (that I have seen) still have a fan, and I would highly
>recommend one
>for the above reason. Even a reversed fan would be better than none at all.
>But there are some cars out there that have the right fan, I would expect.
>Van's 35 amp alternator would be just fine at 35 amps if you can get enough
>cooling air to it. I'm not sure a blast tube guarantees that, but it may.
>Another alternative would be to sense the temperature of the diode heat
>sink and
>light a warning light on the panel if it overheats so that the field circuit
>breaker could be turned off. This would be at about 150 degrees C. Not
>too many
>of us have time or resources to do this. But, this may be easier than taking
>the necessary data to assure ourselves that the system is doing the job
>reliably as installed in our particular airplane.
>
>OK, sorry folks, but I had to jump in here. Of course just IMHO.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>N766DH (Flying with Van's 60 amp alternator, even though I don't need even 35
>amps!)
>
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > you can't compare the rating of an aircraft alternator with an automobile
> > unit. The auto units are not rated at continous duty as are the aircraft
> > units.
> >
> > The other factor is that the units are rated at a specific temperature. Is
> > the temperature in your cowl equal to that?
> >
> > Having it be of a load capacity that is larger just allows for it to run
> > cooler at an equal load, or at least to be better suited to handling equal
> > temperatures.
> >
> > In my limited experience with Van's units (about ten of them) they are not
> > great units and in several cases they were flat out trash. I would
> never fly
> > one without first overhauling it myself. But, that said, I would do the
> same
> > with an autozone unit as well.
> >
> > W
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to oranges |
Charlie,
Now that you brought it up, I have an extra inputs on my UBG that I could
use! I'm not sure what kind of inputs your Rocky Mountain MicroMonitor wants,
but thermocouples are typical. Read in your manual about that. Also, a call to
Rocky Mountain may bring an answer about what sensor to use.
I would suggest a thermocouple (type K) like used for egt or cht. You can
make your own with small thermocouple wire. Weld it together with an acetylene
torch and mount it to the diode heat sink. Maybe you can drill a hole in the
heat sink -- say 1/16 inch dia. and use red RTV to glue it in. A small piece
of heat shrink or teflon tubing could be used for insulation. If your monitor
will accept grounded thermocouples, its much easier. You can twist the wires
and crimp them in a terminal. Its still recommended to weld them, but they
will work even if they are not welded. There may also be something available
commercially from a company like Omega Engineering that a search on the inte
rnet might find.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
>
>
> Dan
> Thanks for the great info. I really appreciate the temperature data. As
> an auto mechanic with 30 years experience, I know that toasting the
> rectifier diodes destroys lots of alternators. I have a Rocky Mountain
> MicroMonitor in my 8A project. It allows me to add up to 3 additional
> sensor inputs. It also allows me to set alarm points for all sensors,
> including the "user defined" ones.
> Can you suggest a thermistor which would be small enough and durable enough
> to be used to monitor the rectifier diode heat sink??
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >Another alternative would be to sense the temperature of the diode heat
> >sink and
> >light a warning light on the panel if it overheats so that the field
> circuit
> >breaker could be turned off. This would be at about 150 degrees C. Not
> >too many
> >of us have time or resources to do this. But, this may be easier than
> taking
> >the necessary data to assure ourselves that the system is doing the job
> >reliably as installed in our particular airplane.
> >
> >OK, sorry folks, but I had to jump in here. Of course just IMHO.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Dan Hopper
> >RV-7A
> >N766DH (Flying with Van's 60 amp alternator, even though I don't need even
> 35
> >amps!)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
| From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
etc, etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
decide to go one way or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Mitchell <dfm4290(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
You will still have plenty of stuff to do.
Dale Mitchell RV-8A MN wing
--- "Valovich, Paul" wrote:
>
>
> I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and
> admittedly have
> contracted a very serious case of the "disease".
> This stuff is great -
> tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I
> have found that the
> actual construction timeline is moving more to the
> right from what I had
> envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff,
> but the time actually
> available to get into the workshop. All the usual
> suspects - job, wife,
> grandsons, personal business, house maintenance,
> community involvement,
> etc, etc.
>
>
> I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit
> or quick build. I
> enjoy the construction process, but am becoming
> increasingly frustrated
> by the time constraints. And somehow I've
> inadvertently let myself
> become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my
> toys" factor also
> enters the equation.
>
>
> I realize that the decision is ultimately mine
> alone, but I'd be
> interested in hearing some thought of others who
> have found themselves
> in a similar situation. What were the deciding
> factors that made you
> decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
> Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover
> the added cost of the
> QB.
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> Booger
>
> Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
If you can afford a quick build go that route. I would have if I could
have afforded it.
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>
>I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
>contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
>tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
>actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
>envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
>available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
>grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
>etc, etc.
>
>
>I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
>enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
>by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
>become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
>enters the equation.
>
>
>I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
>interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
>in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
>decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
>Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
>QB.
>
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>Booger
>
>Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 12/20/04 Carb Ice |
Hint: EGT serves as a fairly effective carb ice warning. Cruising with
full lean mixture, slight carb ice will initially not reduce power, as it
richens the mixture enough to offset the slightly reduced airfow. Keeping an eye
on EGT will detect carb ice very early, while there is plenty of heat to
eliminate it.
In 30 years of flying Cessna, all of the SERIOUS carb ice happened on
just one trip! Watching the EGT I have seen very minor ice frequently, which
would normally go unnoticed. A manifold pressure gage is also useful for
detecting minor carb ice.
Paul S. Petersen, Minnetonka MN RV6A 95% done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Cold/Lean Cylinders |
listers,
Here's what I have found out to date concerning the issues with my engine.
The original problem was that, in cold air, the #3 & #4 cylinders were
already running lean in cruise at the full rich setting. Swapping out the
carb had no effect (stock from AeroSport Power). Checks on the fuel supply
side showed everything in order with no fuel flow restrictions. The airbox
is standard, with a clean air filter. The carb bowl level is within spec's.
This RV-6A is running a 70CM6S9-0 (79) Sensenich prop. The engine is an
O-320D1A with 9:1 compression pistons, with a carb # 10-5217. The carb jet
is a 47-828 with a .093 diam jet.
Swapping out the jet to a P/N 47-773 style jet (different spray bar area)
proved to worsen the engine performance. Besides running very rich (it had a
.107" diam jet size) it did not run smoothly over a wide RPM setting range
without a lot of manual mixture changes. Overall, performance was
unacceptable.
Changing the jet to a P/N 47-828 with a .098" diam jet size has resulted
in both smooth operation over a wide RPM range, and with #3 & #4 cylinders
starting out rich while operating in cold air (15*F OAT, cruise at full
rich). Leaning from this operational point results in all cylinders EGT's
first getting hotter, peaking, then falling as would be expected. Fuel flows
have increased (also expected, as this is a 10% increase in the jet
diameter). There still is a 50*F - 100*F difference in EGT's depending on
the power setting. Leaning to 50*F lean of peak on the hottest cylinder (#3)
still results in #4 cylinder CHT to be considerably lower than the rest (#1
& #2 CHT's are hottest, #3 & #4 CHT's are the coldest, in that order), so
this may still be a plenum air flow issue.
All testing to date has been done at low altitudes (3000' MSL). I'm
expecting fuel flows to be lower at higher altitudes (about the same at they
were with the original P/N 47-828 .093" jet). I'm traveling to Florida next
week, so I'll take some more numbers at higher altitudes as I travel down
the East Coast.
The data still indicates that there is still an issue with fuel sharing
between cylinders, but it's better than it was with the original jet. After
I return from Florida, I'll do some more testing with a P/N 47-828 .100" jet
to see if this helps change the sharing (the original jet will be "reamed"
out from .093" to .100"). This would be close to the #28 drill size others
have found to improve performance......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
Hey Paul,
I have just finished my horiz. stab. and have a QB on order. To me, it
looks like the best way to go if money is not a factor. Like you, time is
more of a constraint then anything else. Like Vans says, for the price of
your time, it is well worth the money. Don't forget that prices go up 1 to 3
percent Jan 1, so if you can pay for it before then you will save a little
money.
Good luck,
Paul RV-8 QB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
>
> I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
> contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
> tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
> actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
> envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
> available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
> grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
> etc, etc.
>
>
> I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
> enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
> by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
> become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
> enters the equation.
>
>
> I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
> interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
> in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
> decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
> Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
> QB.
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> Booger
>
> Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Cold/Lean Cylinders |
One thing to point out is that the EGT spread is not as important as when
the cylinders will peak relative to each other. Only worry about the spread
after peaking each cylinder and then note the spread. Since I am fuel
injected I dont have your problems but I have gone to great lengths to make
sure all cylinders peak at the same time, not the same temp, this is key.
You can do this but need a flow meter and a EGT on each cylinder. If you
have this, contact me off line and I will explain how to do it.
Has any one experimented with or has seen the "Turbo Tornado" advertised on
TV. I would think that a device like this would greatly help fuel/air
distribution. The scary part is that it must be placed after the carb.
>
>
>listers,
>
> Here's what I have found out to date concerning the issues with my engine.
>
> The original problem was that, in cold air, the #3 & #4 cylinders were
>already running lean in cruise at the full rich setting. Swapping out the
>carb had no effect (stock from AeroSport Power). Checks on the fuel supply
>side showed everything in order with no fuel flow restrictions. The airbox
>is standard, with a clean air filter. The carb bowl level is within spec's.
>This RV-6A is running a 70CM6S9-0 (79) Sensenich prop. The engine is an
>O-320D1A with 9:1 compression pistons, with a carb # 10-5217. The carb jet
>is a 47-828 with a .093 diam jet.
> Swapping out the jet to a P/N 47-773 style jet (different spray bar area)
>proved to worsen the engine performance. Besides running very rich (it had a
>.107" diam jet size) it did not run smoothly over a wide RPM setting range
>without a lot of manual mixture changes. Overall, performance was
>unacceptable.
> Changing the jet to a P/N 47-828 with a .098" diam jet size has resulted
>in both smooth operation over a wide RPM range, and with #3 & #4 cylinders
>starting out rich while operating in cold air (15*F OAT, cruise at full
>rich). Leaning from this operational point results in all cylinders EGT's
>first getting hotter, peaking, then falling as would be expected. Fuel flows
>have increased (also expected, as this is a 10% increase in the jet
>diameter). There still is a 50*F - 100*F difference in EGT's depending on
>the power setting. Leaning to 50*F lean of peak on the hottest cylinder (#3)
>still results in #4 cylinder CHT to be considerably lower than the rest (#1
>& #2 CHT's are hottest, #3 & #4 CHT's are the coldest, in that order), so
>this may still be a plenum air flow issue.
> All testing to date has been done at low altitudes (3000' MSL). I'm
>expecting fuel flows to be lower at higher altitudes (about the same at they
>were with the original P/N 47-828 .093" jet). I'm traveling to Florida next
>week, so I'll take some more numbers at higher altitudes as I travel down
>the East Coast.
> The data still indicates that there is still an issue with fuel sharing
>between cylinders, but it's better than it was with the original jet. After
>I return from Florida, I'll do some more testing with a P/N 47-828 .100" jet
>to see if this helps change the sharing (the original jet will be "reamed"
>out from .093" to .100"). This would be close to the #28 drill size others
>have found to improve performance......
>
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
> Dave
> No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what you
> want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> Charlie Kuss
>
Charlie,
I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to see
what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had a honker
bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the ribs to the spar.
Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably help a
lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the rivets.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
Paul
I have similar issues, just finishing RV7 empennage and am struggling to get
quality time in the garage but cannot at this time afford the entire QB
route so my plan is slow build wings (with QB tanks) and then QB fuselage. I
would have gone QB all the way if money was not an issue. Also from reading
this email list every day there is plenty to do even going the QB route.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement, etc,
etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I enjoy
the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated by the
time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself become 61 years
old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be interested
in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves in a similar
situation. What were the deciding factors that made you decide to go one way
or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Roger,
Go Quick build. I'm in the same world. I run my own company and
time is not always available. I bought the quick build for my RV9 and
I'm very glad I did. The wings are very close to being done when they
arrive. Depending on what you are doing for landing lights, strobes etc.
you can be done with them in a few weeks to a month . Now thats my way
of fast building. The fuselage is different as there is a lot to do in
the front. But again, its a far cry from the "long" way to build. (I'm
61 also and times flys
JIm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | friendly reminder |
Just a quick reminder to those of you out there with suspicious tanks.....Check
regularly for loose sloshing compound! I have had a wave of calls recently from
pilots with loose slosh in their tanks. If you suspect you have this issue,
PLEASE ground your airplane and call me. It just aint worth the risk of starving
your engine at just the wrong time. In cruising the web I have noticed that
there are certified airplanes out there dealing with this issue as well.....I
gotta figure out how to help those guys as well.
Merry Christmas
Happy Christmas (to those on the other side of the planet)
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
What happened to the Kips practice test on the web? It seems to have disappeared.
I like to quiz myself every once in a while to stay sharp. Is there another
site that does the same?
Thanks....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Well I have an alternative.
When I was going for my IFR, what I really wanted was to be familiar
with all the correct answers, and not familiar with the wrong ones as
the wrong ones just muddied up my brain water.
So in that vein, I took ALL the questions, and correct responses and
studies just those. Questions with correct responses. Then when taking
the test, the correct answers were familiar and the wrong ones were
unfamiliar.
You can have them here under downloads/strangely useful things.
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/
Enjoy.
Kahuna
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Subject: RV-List: Kips faa test
What happened to the Kips practice test on the web? It seems to have
disappeared. I like to quiz myself every once in a while to stay sharp.
Is there another site that does the same?
Thanks....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
Dan
Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
you???
Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your
squeezer and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is
used to do the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set)
are used to reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates
the problem of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less
than skilled assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms,
especially when working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so
that the flanging on the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding
the bar parallel with the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
saw, belt sander and a drill.
Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with
a C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
Charlie
PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
it all out
>
>In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
> > Dave
> > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what you
> > want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
>
>Charlie,
>
>I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
>
>I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to see
>what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had a honker
>bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the ribs to the
>spar.
>Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably help a
>lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the rivets.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
At a mere 61, I also appreciate the time to work on the parts that are
really fun. I look at as paying someone $5 an hour to do the tedious
repetitive work that I'd get tired of doing. The workmanship on the QB
parts is also very good. I've found one missed rivet and no bad rivets and
the skin lays down very smooth. I am convinced it was worth it to go quick
build.
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
etc, etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
decide to go one way or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
Charlie
Where did you find the C style back riveting set? I looked around after the
last thread on this subject and could not find one listed.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
Dan
Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
you???
Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your squeezer
and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is used to do
the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set) are used to
reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates the problem
of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less than skilled
assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms, especially when
working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so that the flanging on
the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding the bar parallel with
the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
saw, belt sander and a drill.
Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with a
C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
Charlie
PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
it all out
>
>In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
> > Dave
> > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what
> > you want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
>
>Charlie,
>
>I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
>
>I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to
>see what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had
>a honker bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the
>ribs to the spar.
>Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably
>help a lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the
rivets.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags Crossed |
I won't one up you I will one down you! Mine ran from Dec 2000 to last month
with mags reversed! 175 hours. It was frequently hard to start from day one
which was with a new engine!
It does no harm but it does make starting harder. Recently it was a chilly 40*
and it would not fire at all. Figuring out that the problem was reversed leads
was difficult because it seemed so impossible.
If starting is difficult, check it out because it is an easy mistake, eh guys?
hal
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
Heh, heh... been there done that. Get this, mine ran a year with my
mags reversed! John Furey wrote:
>
>I'm embarrassed to admit that I switched the P leads on my mag (toggle)
>switches which means that I was starting on the right mag only and the left
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) |
When I began attaching the LE ribs to the spar, I played around with the
set on the bucking bar, but it was too easy to slip off. Also, it took way
too many strokes to set the rivet.
What worked a little better was a regular bucking bar with duct tape
around it on the shop head side. Pushing hard with both the gun and the
bucking bar made a big difference.
After struggling with the bucking bar and gun, I switched over to Mongo
Squeeze.:
http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG
This is a CP-351 with 9 inch deep alligator jaws. I bought it on Ebay for
about $100. (They typically sell for about twice that on Ebay. New, they go
for over $2,000.)
I spent a day rigging up a rope and pulley system that would suspend Mongo
Squeeze from the rafters in my garage. I used the rails from a sliding
closet door with a few pulleys, rope, and lead shot to make a
counter-weight system that looks a bit like the rigging on a tower crane.
This allows me to slide back and forth (and up and down) along the main
spar and rear spar. By maneuvering Mongo Squeeze from each side of the
spar, I was able to reach every rivet. Every rivet came out perfectly.
Until the spar, I used Mongo Squeeze exclusively on the bench (shown) with
the foot pedal. Great for dimpling skins (and ribs) and riveting assemblies
you can support with your hands. Makes it all go a lot faster.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RE:Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
Larry,
What did you thin with? I tried acetone, lacquer thinner, MEK, water. No
joy...
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:59:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Firesleeve: Sealing ends
I thinned the RTV. I'm happy with how it turned out.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/01/firesleeve_dres.html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE:Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I used MEK. Quite a bit of it....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com said:
>
>
> Larry,
>
> What did you thin with? I tried acetone, lacquer thinner, MEK, water. No
> joy...
>
> Jerry Cochran
>
> In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:59:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
>
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Firesleeve: Sealing ends
>
>
> I thinned the RTV. I'm happy with how it turned out.
>
> http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/01/firesleeve_dres.html
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Anywhere Map Web Site Attack |
It appears AWM web site was attacked...try their "documentation" site, or
their discussion site. Damn hackers !
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map Web Site Attack |
into their discussion forums and got the new defaced web page. Looked like
an internet worm to me. I wish I could remember what the site said. Maybe our
good friend Mr. Stewart could have helped nail the culprit. Seemed to say something
about NoSaferWeb or Net or something. It was just too late at night.
It appears AWM web site was attacked...try their "documentation" site, or
their discussion site. Damn hackers !
John
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) |
Bill
Nice tool, however, the rivets in question can't be set with a squeezer
of any type. (not unless you've got something with a 4 foot throat)
Charlie Kuss
>
> When I began attaching the LE ribs to the spar, I played around
> with the
>set on the bucking bar, but it was too easy to slip off. Also, it took way
>too many strokes to set the rivet.
>
> What worked a little better was a regular bucking bar with duct tape
>around it on the shop head side. Pushing hard with both the gun and the
>bucking bar made a big difference.
>
> After struggling with the bucking bar and gun, I switched over to
> Mongo
>Squeeze.:
>
>http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG
>
> This is a CP-351 with 9 inch deep alligator jaws. I bought it on
> Ebay for
>about $100. (They typically sell for about twice that on Ebay. New, they go
>for over $2,000.)
>
> I spent a day rigging up a rope and pulley system that would
> suspend Mongo
>Squeeze from the rafters in my garage. I used the rails from a sliding
>closet door with a few pulleys, rope, and lead shot to make a
>counter-weight system that looks a bit like the rigging on a tower crane.
>This allows me to slide back and forth (and up and down) along the main
>spar and rear spar. By maneuvering Mongo Squeeze from each side of the
>spar, I was able to reach every rivet. Every rivet came out perfectly.
>
> Until the spar, I used Mongo Squeeze exclusively on the bench
> (shown) with
>the foot pedal. Great for dimpling skins (and ribs) and riveting assemblies
>you can support with your hands. Makes it all go a lot faster.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
Dave,
I bought mine on EBay for about $12 4 years ago. There is a similar item
for sale there now. See
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50928&item=3861301551&rd=1
My first exposure to this tool was from RV8 builder Steve Dixon. Steve
found one of these in a box of bucking bars at Sun N' Fun. I borrowed his
and loved it. It looks really strange, but it works great. It can be
positioned in areas where no other back riveting tool can reach. Due to
it's mass, I find I that my ratio of tipped or sub standard rivets dropped
WAY down.
These things are very pricey when new, but can be found quite cheaply, used.
EBay member "Alien Spirit" had a lot of these for sale in the spring and
summer of this year. He now has a variation of the C set, an L set. See below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4513671719&fromMakeTrack=true
FYI Alien Spirit is great to do business with. I've been pleased with
everything I've bought from him.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Charlie
>Where did you find the C style back riveting set? I looked around after the
>last thread on this subject and could not find one listed.
>Dave
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
>
>
>Dan
> Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
>for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
>Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
>members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
>engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
> The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
>is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
>you???
> Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your squeezer
>and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is used to do
>the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set) are used to
>reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates the problem
>of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less than skilled
>assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms, especially when
>working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so that the flanging on
>the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding the bar parallel with
>the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
>(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
>saw, belt sander and a drill.
> Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
>formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with a
>C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
>rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
>Charlie
>PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
>it all out
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
> >
> > > Dave
> > > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what
> > > you want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > > Charlie Kuss
> > >
> >
> >Charlie,
> >
> >I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
> >
> >I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to
> >see what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had
> >a honker bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the
> >ribs to the spar.
> >Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably
> >help a lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the
>rivets.
> >
> >Dan Hopper
> >RV-7A
> >
> >
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DANBERGERONHAM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
I'm doing a slow-build RV-7A and have been working on it since Feb 03. I'm
just finishing up the wings (The wife and I did our own tanks There are no
leaks but we probably used enough proseal to overgross the plane. I think my
wife got hooked on the stuff) and am about to order the fuselage kit. The 10
week lead time will hopefully give me just about enough time to winterize the
garage. The empenage and wings I've been able to build in the cellar (where it's
warm) but not so the fuselage. Temp this morning was minus 2 F and not much
above that in the garage.
I've thoroughly enjoy the building process thus far, but have to admit
there've been times when I wonder if I should have gone with the quick build kit.
I've gotten bored with the obvious stuff: match drilling, deburring, dimpling
and priming. I'm 62 years old, a retired soldier, work 50 hours per week as a
school administrator, maintain an old home, and have social and family
obligations. I don't plan on retiring for another two years but hope to have the
fuselage done by then. Then it'll be a full time, full-court press to finish it
up in one additional year. Meanwhile, I've learned to budget my time
carefully, get the most out of weekends and holidays for building, and an hour
of so
in the evenings. (It's amazing how much one can get done in one hour.)
Though I have to admit I'd rather be flying than building, I guess I'd still
go with the slow-build kit. It's a beautiful process. Take your time and
enjoy it.
Just my opinion.
Dan Bergeron
Chicopee, MA
Almost there with the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
One of the replies mentioned a sale on rivet guns at ATS. My ATS gun is
more like an air hammer, as is the one owned by a friend. The "teasing"
trigger they claim is has means it is teasing YOU, seeing how long you will
try to make it work. And the ATS "sale" price on a Sioux air drill is $5
higher than Brown's normal price. So, I don't shop ATS.
Taylor guns some in our builder's group have don't seem to be any better
than the ATS's.
I eventually bought a well used Ingersoll Rand AVC 12 (3X equivalent) thru
Ebay & it is a much better gun than the ATS ever dreamed of being. My AI
recommends Chicago Pneumatic guns, but after working with him to rivet a
glider where we used both his CP & my IR, he says my IR is equal to the
CP. There is an IR AVC 12 on Ebay now, no CP 3X's but just keep watching.
I'm certainly no expert, but this is my experience.
Richard Scott
RV-9A emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Off topic - Control Vision web site |
Ah, the worm that took down Control Vision finally has a name:
perl.santy. It targets UNIX systems that run PHPBBS. Looks like it hit
them hard they are still down..
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
I bought one of the C sets and used it on my aileron to back rivet the top
row of rivets along the spar between the trailing and leading edge skins.
It made the job easy.
Greg
>
> Dave,
> I bought mine on EBay for about $12 4 years ago. There is a similar item
> for sale there now. See
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50928&item=3861301551
&rd=1
>
> My first exposure to this tool was from RV8 builder Steve Dixon. Steve
> found one of these in a box of bucking bars at Sun N' Fun. I borrowed his
> and loved it. It looks really strange, but it works great. It can be
> positioned in areas where no other back riveting tool can reach. Due to
> it's mass, I find I that my ratio of tipped or sub standard rivets dropped
> WAY down.
> These things are very pricey when new, but can be found quite cheaply,
used.
>
> EBay member "Alien Spirit" had a lot of these for sale in the spring and
> summer of this year. He now has a variation of the C set, an L set. See
below.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4513671719&fro
mMakeTrack=true
>
> FYI Alien Spirit is great to do business with. I've been pleased with
> everything I've bought from him.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >
> >Charlie
> >Where did you find the C style back riveting set? I looked around after
the
> >last thread on this subject and could not find one listed.
> >Dave
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
> >
> >
> >Dan
> > Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign
up
> >for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation,
Don
> >Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all
are
> >members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
> >engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
> > The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured
head
> >is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
> >you???
> > Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your
squeezer
> >and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is used to
do
> >the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set) are used
to
> >reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates the
problem
> >of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less than
skilled
> >assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms, especially when
> >working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so that the flanging
on
> >the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding the bar parallel
with
> >the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
> >(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a
band
> >saw, belt sander and a drill.
> > Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
> >formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction
with a
> >C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
> >rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
> >Charlie
> >PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well.
Check
> >it all out
> >
> >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> > >chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
> > >
> > > > Dave
> > > > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what
> > > > you want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > > > Charlie Kuss
> > > >
> > >
> > >Charlie,
> > >
> > >I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
> > >
> > >I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to
> > >see what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had
> > >a honker bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the
> > >ribs to the spar.
> > >Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably
> > >help a lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the
> >rivets.
> > >
> > >Dan Hopper
> > >RV-7A
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | KLN-90A pinout or installation manual needed |
Good Morning,
Anyone out there have a pinout for the Bendix King KLN-90A? Even better, an
installation manual that they want to part with?
Email me off list if you want to.
Stephen Soule
ssoule(at)pfclaw.com
Swanton, Vermont
N227RV RV-6A flying
N222SZ RV-8 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
On the flip side, I did the 8a slow build, spent 30 hrs a week in the shop,
this is time in the shop not necessarily time working. 2 years to the month
for first flight, this included paint (painted myself) but no gear fairings
or wheel pants. After building the first one I could do a slow build in 1.5
years no problem.
Wings are easy compared to the fuse. Slow build wings quick build fuse is a
good compromise IMHO.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: [FlyRotary] Fw: stuff for sale Avionics, Electrically Controlled |
varable Pitch Prop
> Hi Folks,
>
> Attached is a list of avionics and an Electrical controlled variable pitch
> propeller that the FBO at my airpatch is interested in selling.
> As he mentions this was all pretty expensive avionics and he has no need
for
> it. Just thought some of you might be interested, if so contact Jon Long
at
> the below e mail address. >
> Ed Anderson
> Subject: stuff for sale
>
>
> >
> > Hi, Ed...here's what I have available to the highest bidder. All of it
is
> in excellent condition, having been used for 160 hours. Thanks for your
help
> with this. I can be contacted at mail(at)longaviation.com
> > Jon
> >
> > 3 blade CAP system (cockpit adjustable propeller) by NSI Aero, Model 200
> hub, Powerfin blades, Digital Blade Angle Gage, electric controls. Cost
for
> the system new was $4500.
> >
> > KX-155 NAv-Comm with glideslope
> > KX-165 Nav-Comm with glideslope
> > KLN 89B IFR GPS with annunciator/switching panel
> > KT-78 Transponder with Mode C
> > Century 2000 aurtopilot with altitude hold and coupling
> > Century NSD 1000 HSI (electric), fully coupled
> > King KI-209 nav indicator with glideslope
> > King KMA 24 audio panel with marker beacons
> > King IFR GPS antenna (teardrop shape)
> >
> > This is all pretty expensive stuff. Cost new (160 hours ago) was over
> $40K.
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I posted it I found it. For the archive,
here it is:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/300/pdf/1a-cover.pdf
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> Is everyone on this list 61 or 62 years old? I will be 61 in about 2 weeks.
> I started my slow build -7A when I took an early retirement from Delco Delphi
> Electronics about 4 years ago and spent the next 3 years building the plane.
> I found the somewhat mundane, although challenging (whatever this means!)
> sheet metal work to be quite therapeutic. A good way to wind down from a hectic
> career.
>
> Its a tough call. As has been pointed out, there is still plenty to do after
> the quick build phase is over. The sheet metal work with Van's great plans
> went very smoothly. As they say time flies when you're having fun! It sure
> didn't seem like 2 years of sheet metal work. But, the last year of instrument
> panel and firewall forward seemed like 5 years. It just seemed to get slower
> and s l o w e r.
>
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Finally flying -- it was worth every minute of the build time.)
Dan, sounds like you "enjoyed" the 75% done, 75% to go syndrome!
Based on watching a bunch of RV's get completed over the past eight
years, it seems to me the basic airframe construction time (what is
often referred to as "bangin' rivets) is about 50% of the total project.
That is why I have suggested to several builders of the newer kits to
skip the QB option and save the $$$$$$'s for the engine and/or panel.
The percentage of time saved with the QB vs standard kit has shrunk
considerably with the CAD designed and produced kits. If a QB saves 50%
of airframe construction time, that may only be ~25% of total project time.
That said, the QB is an excellent option if time is considerably more
valuable than budget. And the workmanship of the QB's is first-rate. But
the idea of a QB saving vast amounts of *total project time* over the
standard kit is not as valid as it was in the stone age when we had to
"drill every hole". :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, slow build)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
Dan,
The answer to your question is "No".
I am 69 and a QB 8 was essential as far as I was concerned.
It has turned into a slooooow QB, but more fun than this old guy can
remember.
Paul LeDoux
N9NM reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
In a message dated 12/22/04 11:27:06 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dwight(at)openweave.org writes:
> Wings are 95% done (two bottom skins left to
> rivet, and waiting on a time when I have a helper to get 'em out of
> the way ... my helpers have been either sick or just unavailable for
> the last few weeks) and I'm on the QB fuselage now. I really *really*
> should be able to finish in 4 years! Geeze .. I hope, at least. :)
>
> -- Dwight
>
Dwight,
I did the bottom skins by myself. I used my HOPPER 9000 (similar to a
BINFORD 9000 from a day or two ago) bucking bar. What this is is a piece of steel
I
found at the local junk yard which measures 1 3/4 by 2 3/4 by 4 inches.
These dimensions aren't all that critical, that's just what I came across at the
junk yard. You don't want to drop this baby! To do the skin to rear spar
rivets, I dropped (err -- lowered down with a handle made of duct tape) the bar
in
and then backed the bar up with a device known as the HOPPER 9001. What this
is is a stick of wood about 1/4 by 1 by 14 inches wrapped on the end with
black foam pipe insulation and electrical tape until it works just right. Best
helper I ever had. When I was working at home alone with it, I could yell at
it all day long and it just kept on working. The wing was still in the jig
with the trailing edge down.
Now get back to work on that wing. No more excuses.
Seriously, I hope this helps someone.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since July)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs |
| From: | Andrew Douglas <adouglas(at)optonline.net> |
FNG here...please be patient with what is probably a dumb question. I did
check the list archives, but did not find anything that addresses this.
I've just recently gotten involved in a half-built RV-7A project, so I'm
still learning the absolute basics. The builder is away for the holidays and
gave me some homework to do while he's away.
Said homework is deburring and fluting the seat ribs.
Now, I understand the whys and wherefores of fluting and flange
straightening, but naturally the reality doesn't *quite* match what I've
been reading.
Here's the quandary: The center seat ribs (F-715??) have gaps in the upper
surface flanges where they angle up (the thigh support section). So there
are two straight bits of flange on the top of the ribs, whereas the lower
flange is continuous.
I can flute the rib so that the long lower flange is straight, and so that
the two short upper flanges are straight...but that break in the upper
flange lets the whole rib bow along the upper surface, with the high point
right at the break.
I don't see any way to make it lie totally flat, since the upper flange is
not continuous...further fluting of the two short upper flanges makes them
bow, but does nothing to straighten the rib overall.
I hesitate to muck about with this any further for fear that I might be
work-hardening the flutes I've put in, taken out and further manipulated in
my unsuccessful attempts to make the whole thing lie flat.
In addition, the entire thing is twisted a fair bit. How the heck do you
deal with that?
It doesn't take much force to make it lie flat.
I suspect that this is not a big deal and I should just not worry about
it...things should line up fine once the seat pan is put in place.
Am I correct?
Thanks....
-----------------------------------------------------
Andrew Douglas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Thanks to those of you that helped make me feel a little less foolish.
Apparently crossing the P-Leads is more common than I had thought and most
importantly I guess the only damage done was to my ego.
Merry Christmas
John RV6A O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs |
Andrew,
You are close enough. When the floors are in place the whole assembly will
be strong. I think you are referring to the cutouts for installing the control
sticks, aren't you? You have to fasten the ribs back together again at the
top, so you could do that now.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since July)
In a message dated 12/22/04 12:23:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
adouglas(at)optonline.net writes:
>
> I hesitate to muck about with this any further for fear that I might be
> work-hardening the flutes I've put in, taken out and further manipulated in
> my unsuccessful attempts to make the whole thing lie flat.
>
> In addition, the entire thing is twisted a fair bit. How the heck do you
> deal with that?
>
> It doesn't take much force to make it lie flat.
>
> I suspect that this is not a big deal and I should just not worry about
> it...things should line up fine once the seat pan is put in place.
>
> Am I correct?
>
> Thanks....
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Douglas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Trutrack autopilots in RV4 |
Merry Christmas to all!
Any RV4 builders who installed a Altrak and Digitrak have any photos to
share with me. My wife just bought these for my Christmas present!
Installation info sort of lacking for my tastes. One look is worth a
thousand cross checks!
Happy Holidays to all!
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trutrack autopilots in RV4 |
Bruce Bell wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas to all!
> Any RV4 builders who installed a Altrak and Digitrak have any photos to
> share with me. My wife just bought these for my Christmas present!
> Installation info sort of lacking for my tastes. One look is worth a
> thousand cross checks!
> Happy Holidays to all!
Sounds like you have been a very good boy! AlTrak installation in an
RV-6 (should be very similar to RV-4) here:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/altrak.htm
You will get spoiled to the AlTrak in about...oh.....two minutes!
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trutrack autopilots in RV4 |
> > Any RV4 builders who installed a Altrak and Digitrak have any photos to
> > share with me. My wife just bought these for my Christmas present!
> > Installation info sort of lacking for my tastes. One look is worth a
> > thousand cross checks!
> > Happy Holidays to all!
Bruce,
I don't know the RV-4 control column setup very well (at all, really), but I
assume if you can't mount the aileron servo under the pilot or copilot's
seat, you could do a wing tip installation for the aileron servo. A good
example of that setup is Laird Owens' RV-6. He was kind enough to post some
photos of it here:
http://www.rvproject.com/trutrak.html
Also on that page is Tom Prokop's under-seat aileron servo installation.
Some photos of my bellcrank-mounted aileron servo on my RV-7, which I assume
will be the least useful to you on an RV-4, are here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20041011.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs |
Andrew;
I think you have the answer yourself. Flute the seat rib so the bottom
flange is straight and the two straight segments on the top are straight
individually, then stop there. The gap in between has little to no stiffness
and can be left to flop around.
When installing the seat ribs in the fuselage, the bottom skins will take
care of keeping the bottom flange straight. Later on, the seat pans will
keep the top edges straight and in alignment. A fair bit of wobble is normal
until the set pans go in.
Welcome to the RV-list and happy building!
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB
RV-6A C-GKGZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Douglas" <adouglas(at)optonline.net>
Subject: RV-List: Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs
>
> FNG here...please be patient with what is probably a dumb question. I did
> check the list archives, but did not find anything that addresses this.
>
> I've just recently gotten involved in a half-built RV-7A project, so I'm
> still learning the absolute basics. The builder is away for the holidays
> and
> gave me some homework to do while he's away.
>
> Said homework is deburring and fluting the seat ribs.
>
> Now, I understand the whys and wherefores of fluting and flange
> straightening, but naturally the reality doesn't *quite* match what I've
> been reading.
>
> Here's the quandary: The center seat ribs (F-715??) have gaps in the upper
> surface flanges where they angle up (the thigh support section). So there
> are two straight bits of flange on the top of the ribs, whereas the lower
> flange is continuous.
>
> I can flute the rib so that the long lower flange is straight, and so that
> the two short upper flanges are straight...but that break in the upper
> flange lets the whole rib bow along the upper surface, with the high point
> right at the break.
>
> I don't see any way to make it lie totally flat, since the upper flange is
> not continuous...further fluting of the two short upper flanges makes them
> bow, but does nothing to straighten the rib overall.
>
> I hesitate to muck about with this any further for fear that I might be
> work-hardening the flutes I've put in, taken out and further manipulated
> in
> my unsuccessful attempts to make the whole thing lie flat.
>
> In addition, the entire thing is twisted a fair bit. How the heck do you
> deal with that?
>
> It doesn't take much force to make it lie flat.
>
> I suspect that this is not a big deal and I should just not worry about
> it...things should line up fine once the seat pan is put in place.
>
> Am I correct?
>
> Thanks....
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Andrew Douglas
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
If I might put in a shameless plug...
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/)
Jerry Cochran
Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
you???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to |
Just a though, some builders may consider temperature sensitive indicating labels.
Although, not as nice as thermo-couple/cockpit monitoring for detailed info,
it could also be useful.
Indicating labels, temp sensitive tape is available many temp ranges and could
be placed in several locations to keep track of temps for flight test. Placing
them in several locations you could monitor temps under the cowl of accessories
like the alternator and any other item you want.You could check to see how
hot you Carb heat is, cowl, oil cooler or Battery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to |
Would you mind to give us a reference for purchasing such as a product, name
or part number? Thanks
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
Subject: RV-List: Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to
>
> Just a though, some builders may consider temperature sensitive indicating
labels. Although, not as nice as thermo-couple/cockpit monitoring for
detailed info, it could also be useful.
>
> Indicating labels, temp sensitive tape is available many temp ranges and
could be placed in several locations to keep track of temps for flight test.
Placing them in several locations you could monitor temps under the cowl of
accessories like the alternator and any other item you want.You could check
to see how hot you Carb heat is, cowl, oil cooler or Battery.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Ok Im replying to myself.
I spoke with ACS this morning(they read the list) and they are gonna
swap out this monster cable for a ribbon cable that will sit flat and
head away from the heat sink.
This is a perfect solution and it means that the analog module can
really be low profile and install in a much smaller space.
I told em to forget that monster cable on any installation and go
ribbon. The weight alone scared me.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart,
Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8
I am having a helluva time finding a good installation location for this
thing. Initially I planned on putting it to the bottom of the fwd
baggage floor right above the rudder pedals. That was until I saw this
monster data cable that plugs in to stick down a couple of inches right
into the pedals.
So who of you put it where on the 8?
Mike
S8
Bench flew the GRT/MX20/430, 330 and ACS last night in the dark. KWEL
KWEL KWEL stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
Jamie: I switched from a 2X to a 3X rivet gun at about the same stage in
building that you are at and never looked back. The 3X for me was far easier to
control and sets -4 rivets much faster. Just turn the pressure down for the
-3 rivets!
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying, 20+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <erichweaver(at)cox.net> |
Howdy. Im a newby considering purchase of either a mostly completed kit or a low
time, flying RV-6 or 7. Will I save any money on sales tax by traveling out-of-state
to buy? Im in California if that makes any difference.
If I have to pay sales tax, when would it be assessed?
thanks
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <erichweaver(at)cox.net> |
As often happens, I found the answers to my own questions shortly after asking
them. Looks like the tax man is gonna get me one way or another.
In case anyone else is interested, this web site seems to cover just about everything
on the sales tax/use tax issue for california:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqtrans.htm.
A quick check of Google indicates other similar sites are available for other states.
regards,
Erich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 |
The flat ribbon cable is smaller but it is probably not shielded and can
generate a lot of RFI. I know of one person with an early ACS that
generated a lot of noise with the round cable.
Ken
>
> Ok Im replying to myself.
> I spoke with ACS this morning(they read the list) and they are gonna
> swap out this monster cable for a ribbon cable that will sit flat and
> head away from the heat sink.
>
> This is a perfect solution and it means that the analog module can
> really be low profile and install in a much smaller space.
>
> I told em to forget that monster cable on any installation and go
> ribbon. The weight alone scared me.
>
> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel
lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products
speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and
hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce
carries.
My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
back ordered.
Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest
different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get?
Thanks,
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
http://www.aircrafthose.com/ Precision Hose Technology
Give 'em a call. Best prices, knowledgeable, FAA approved, comes with
documentation, yadda yadda. ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: teflon hose
>
> I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel
> lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products
> speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and
> hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce
> carries.
>
> My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
> in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
> back ordered.
>
> Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest
> different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
They can afford to sell them cheap when they are out of stock.
Seriously, it is often true that lower priced sellers offer poorer service. Not
always but very often.
hal
sarg314 wrote:
My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
back ordered.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Dan's New NTSB program |
Subject: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program
Dan,
Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of
flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly
installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The
total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7
gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola,
Kansas, at 1343.
WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me
that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31
gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers?
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
Tom: I know of one RV-4 that will draw more than 31 gallons and keep
running. They must have dreamed it up. I would question their fuel
consumption too, although I suppose 11.5 gph is possible. I once did a
cross country in a Cessna 150 that should have burned something over 5
gph but instead burned over 7. The guy I rented it from said "probably
had a warped venturi". Thanks a lot, but I did learn not to trust book
figures until I had checked for myself.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pump / Primer Switch |
I'm looking for a switch that can control the electric fuel pump and primer
solenoid on a RV-8 from one switch . . . Off/On/Mom.
Can anyone tell me where to find on and what to ask for?
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 |
Mike,
I met you at Falcon Field when the Falcon RV Squadron had their opening day.
In my business we make all kinds of ribbon and other types of cables. Would
be happy to make one for you to try out, there is even a round cable with a
fanout for ribbon type cable connectors.
If you would like one to look at, send me the length and type of connectors
on each end and I will build one for you.
Paul LeDoux
RV-8 Slooooow QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump / Primer Switch |
Maureen & Bob Christensen wrote:
>
>I'm looking for a switch that can control the electric fuel pump and primer
>solenoid on a RV-8 from one switch . . . Off/On/Mom.
>
>Can anyone tell me where to find on and what to ask for?
>
>Thanks,
>Bob
>
>
I have one on my plane, not flying yet :-(
Go here:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?11X358218#s700-2-3
I think the one you need is this one: S700-2-51 DPDT (ON) - ON - OFF
Switch
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was unaware of
just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was going to place my
order before the first of the year to avoid this extra cost, but in reviewing
the order form, it says "prices are those in effect at time of shipment" and
Van's is closed until the 27th for my question. Does this mean that I can't
sneek in under the wire because it will be well into January or Feb before they
ship my wings? Has anyone else gone through this and has Van's been good about
honoring the price at the time of order?
Will #91056
http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Grieve <mark(at)macomb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan's New NTSB program |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on localhost
>I would question their fuel consumption too, although I suppose 11.5 gph is possible.
I'm wondering about this as well. Is this a reasonable fuel burn for this engine?
Sounds a little thirsty to me. The 11.5 GPH into 26.7 gives 2 hours and 20
minutes. According to the report, he called his wife at 1400 about and the accident
happened at 1625. That's 2 hours 25 minutes and the investigator reported
dry tanks. More questions than answers.
MG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Puckett" <rv8er(at)myawai.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump / Primer Switch |
Bob,
If you want to go with the sealed mil-spec version from Honeywell, take
a look at:
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?Catalog=Previous
<http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?Catalog=Previous&FN=675.pdf>
&FN=675.pdf
I used the 2TL1-50 (MS27407-5) for a three position (start disable,
start enable, start-mom). I can then either use the start-mom on the
panel switch or the momentary switch on the stick grip once the panel
switch is in the 'start enable' pos. Your application sounds identical.
There are many variations of switch circuitries, locking mechanisms,. to
choose from on the Honeywell switches. They are all explained at
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/environment/catalog/379.pd
f
The sealed Honeywell versions are a bit pricey but I personally think
they are worth it. The 2TL1-50 is about $28 from Allied.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth CO
You wrote:
I'm looking for a switch that can control the electric fuel pump and
primer
solenoid on a RV-8 from one switch . . . Off/On/Mom.
Can anyone tell me where to find on and what to ask for?
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
> I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was
unaware of just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was
going to place my order before the first of the year to avoid this extra
cost, but in reviewing the order form, it says "prices are those in effect
at time of shipment" and Van's is closed until the 27th for my question.
Does this mean that I can't sneek in under the wire because it will be well
into January or Feb before they ship my wings? Has anyone else gone through
this and has Van's been good about honoring the price at the time of order?
>
> Will #91056
> http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
Can't say for sure but I believe if you prepay the order in full then you
get the old price. Many companies handle such increases this way.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
I believe they make an exception at the end of the year. That's why they advertise
the price increase. Take a look at this link:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/2005_price_increase.pdf
That should answer your question.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:10:06 -0500
>
>I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was unaware of
just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was going to place
my order before the first of the year to avoid this extra cost, but in reviewing
the order form, it says "prices are those in effect at time of shipment" and
Van's is closed until the 27th for my question. Does this mean that I can't
sneek in under the wire because it will be well into January or Feb before they
ship my wings? Has anyone else gone through this and has Van's been good about
honoring the price at the time of order?
>
>Will #91056
>http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
Will
I believe that for the end of the year, Van's will allow you to sneek in.
You have to order by the 27th (Monday) and you have to pay in full. I read
somewhere that they will wave the "price in effect at time of shipment"
thing for the end-of-year.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Bill King
www.kane-king.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Price Increase - Can I sneek in?
>
> I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was
> unaware of just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was
> going to place my order before the first of the year to avoid this extra
> cost, but in reviewing the order form, it says "prices are those in effect
> at time of shipment" and Van's is closed until the 27th for my question.
> Does this mean that I can't sneek in under the wire because it will be
> well into January or Feb before they ship my wings? Has anyone else gone
> through this and has Van's been good about honoring the price at the time
> of order?
>
> Will #91056
> http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <edbundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Trutrack autopilots |
I used Sam's installation info when I installed my Altrak recently, and it
was indeed very helpful. Thanks Sam!
I just wanted to post a follow-up to the problem I had with my installation.
I ordered mine a few weeks before Thanksgiving because I had a 2000nm trip
planned for that week. I had been vacillating on buying an Altrak because I
really wanted one, but didn't really want to part with so many $$. However,
with this trip looming, I bit the bullet and ordered.
Shipping was very quick, and I went to work on it the next week. Utilizing
Sam's photos and the enclosed schematic (which is not as scary after you
spend some time with it) I had the install completed in about 10 hours. My
tips to other -6 drivers: build the harness on the workbench, remove the
(sliding) canopy, and take out the seats. Bring every tool you can think of
into the baggage compartment with you, and even then you'll go in and out of
the airplane about 331 times...
After finishing up, I tested the unit on the ground and it seemed to respond
well. I then spent another hour of so screwing in the bazillion baggage
area fasteners, installing canopy, seats, etc.
Started up, turned on Altrak, nothing. The unit would not power up at all.
Went flying, tried several times, nothing.
Came back down, went home, had to wait several days to get back to it. Took
airplane apart again (#2) and tested every wire for proper terminations,
shorts, power and ground to unit, etc, and everything was fine. Removed
programmer and servo, and put airplane back together (again) so I could fly.
Next day, I called Trutrak. They were VERY nice, and the tech asked me to
send the unit back for testing. I asked him if he could just send me
another unit, because I was leaving in 8 days for my trip. He wanted to see
the unit to verify it wasn't an installation error so that I wouldn't end up
blowing another one up (understandable, although I had spent sufficient
hours verifying that for myself). He said I could send it 2nd day, they
would turn it in 24 hours and send it back 2nd day. Excellent customer
service. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine how much
it cost me to send a 4# package across the country blue label with $1700 of
excess insurance...
5 days later I have a new programmer. I call the tech to ask what happened,
and he said the programmer was bad, but nothing was burned or in any way
suggested an installation error. Must just be a fluke thing.
So, back to the airport, take airplane apart again (#3), reinstall Altrak,
turn unit on expecting smoke, fire, or explosion - and, everything seems to
be working fine. Whew! Put airplane back together AGAIN, turn unit on
during warm up, everything is go.
Takeoff, climb, turn unit on, it works! It's holding an altitude perfectly,
but the nose is pitching up/down a few degrees in an 8 second phugoid (sp?).
I wait a few minutes to see if it will "settle down" but it does not, and
it's making me queasy. I try turning the unit on/off a few times and it
doesn't change.
We leave tomorrow, so I spend several hours taking the airplane apart AGAIN
(#4) to try wiring in the slower sensitivity ground wire to a switch that I
install on the baggage wall so I can try both speeds without having to take
the baggage wall off AGAIN.... Put airplane back together again.
Take the airplane up, and none of the servo speeds is any better, it just
speeds up or slows down the phugoid. At this point, I'm exhausted, and I
still need to get ready for our trip.
Land, go home, Email RV list for advice. Thanks for everyone that posted on
and off list, consensus was that something is wrong. I had a couple of
people off list tell me that it happens sometimes when the pitch is severely
out of trim, but I had checked that. Even tried slight up and down out of
trim to see if that helped, but no joy.
We leave on the trip, and after trying several times to use the Altrak, we
give up because it's literally making us sick. So we fly 2000+nm with an
altitude hold that I've spent countless hours and $$ on, that I can't use.
Very frustrating.
Come home, call Altrak, at this point unsure if I even want to mess with
this or just ask for a refund, and again tech support is very concerned and
it's obvious that they want to get this problem fixed. After describing the
problem, and everything I tried, they determine it's either the stepper
motor in the servo, or another programmer problem. They figure the
programmer is most likely, and offer to send a new one that day.
I receive the new unit, and, everyone: Take the airplane apart AGAIN (#5),
reinstall the programmer, put the airplane back together, and go fly. And,
it works! Perfectly! It's somewhat anticlimactic at this point, but I'm
sure I'll really enjoy it on the next trip.
I really didn't mean to post a novel, but I wanted to put this out there in
case anyone has a similar problem. The people at Trutrak were great, and
went out of their way to help in what obviously was a rare problem. It does
seem to me however, that maybe their QC needs to be fixed if they can send
TWO defective programmers out to the same customer. I'm also glad the
airplane was flying, and I didn't have to find out about the problem months
or years down the road.
I really like the unit, but can't help being a little spooked about possible
reliability problems in light of what I've been through. Also, now that I'm
finished, I need to take the baggage screws out again so I can replace them
all with non-stripped ones.
Ed Bundy - RV6A 600+ hours
Eagle, Idaho
> Bruce Bell wrote:
> >
> > Merry Christmas to all!
> > Any RV4 builders who installed a Altrak and Digitrak have any photos to
> > share with me. My wife just bought these for my Christmas present!
> > Installation info sort of lacking for my tastes. One look is worth a
> > thousand cross checks!
> > Happy Holidays to all!
>
>
> Sounds like you have been a very good boy! AlTrak installation in an
> RV-6 (should be very similar to RV-4) here:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/altrak.htm
>
> You will get spoiled to the AlTrak in about...oh.....two minutes!
>
> Sam Buchanan
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
Thanks for the responses....answers my question!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis " <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A, reserving the
left
tank for avgas only.
Several years ago, while flying in the winter at altitude (well below freezing)
my RV-
6's engine lost power. I switched tanks to my pure avgas tank, and power returned.
As best I could tell, water in the auto gas had come out of solution at the reduced
temperature of this flight, turned to ice/slush, and clogged the fuel system (fuel
pickup finger strainer, perhaps). I landed, drained a good deal of gas from the
right
tank by removing the tank's drain, added avgas to the tank, and proceeded without
incident. I thought the problem was the crummy (7-11) gas I was using, that often
contained water (found when sumping tanks). I switched to a better brand of auto
gas (BP), and have had no further problems until today.
Today I left Virginia with one tank of (mostly) auto gas and one tank of pure avgas.
I
burned the right (autogas) tank down to 1/4 tank or less, landed in Indiana, and
refilled both tanks with avgas.
After about an hour of flight on the right tank (the tank that had a small amount
of
auto gas mixed with 3/4 tank of avgas) the engine lost power. I switched to the
other
(avgas only) tank, and power returned. Switching back and forth confirmed that
the
right tank was blocked... fuel flow would immediately drop when the right tank
was
selected.
I landed, removed the tank drain, drained out a couple of cups of gas, fueled the
plane with avgas, and continued the flight (takeoff used the avgas-only tank, of
course). After perhaps 1/2 hour of full power flight on the right tank, fuel flow
from
the right tank stopped again. I was able to complete the flight on the left (avgas
only)
tank.
I'm puzzled. The flight to Indiana (no fuel problems) saw temps of about 17(F).
I
saw temps of about 10(F) on the second leg... not a lot colder, and the tank had
less
than 1/4 tank of auto gas at the beginning of the second leg, so why did the problem
occur then, and recur after I'd drained the tank?
Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any ideas on a solution? I'm very
hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings against using
these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
RV-6A N47TD, 707 hrs
RV-10 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ACS 2002 analog module Cable and Support |
>>I assume you mean this: Whichever cable you use it will be unshielded and
>>cause lots of problems with RFI.
We offer 4 different cables.
1. 18" Ribbon
2. 2.5' Shielded Round Cable
3. 5' Shielded Round Cable
4. 15' Shielded Round Cable. Used for Long-EZ and Burkut
None of the cables will "cause lots of problems with RFI" The only RFI
problems that we have had were are on very early units that did not have a filter
on the internal 3" cable that connects the LCD panel to the circuit board.
If anyone ever has a question please contact me. I am usually available 7
days a week 365 days a year. I doubt that anyone has better support than we
do. My cell phone number is always on the company answering machine. Here
are the ways to get help:
1. Email _Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com_
(mailto:Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com)
2. Company Phone: (503) 598-7727
3. Cell Phone: (503) 701-5042 (I always have the cell 24/7)
4. Fly over to my house OR40 , On a nice day there are usually RV's in
the yard and Jennifer might even make lunch.
We have sold hundreds of systems and we have had very few problems, if we
did would I give out my cell phone number?
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems, Inc.
Advanced Engine Monitoring - Advanced AOA Systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer(at)iserv.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on mail2.iserv.net
This is the exact situation I was in last year when I ordered my wings. I
sent the form with the "yes" circled in the "Authorization to Use Credit
Card for Final Payment" line. It locked the price and they didn't final
bill until the kit shipped (the kit arrived in February).
Doug Fischer
90706 Wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Price Increase - Can I sneek in?
>
> I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was
unaware of just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was
going to place my order before the first of the year to avoid this extra
cost, but in reviewing the order form, it says "prices are those in effect
at time of shipment" and Van's is closed until the 27th for my question.
Does this mean that I can't sneek in under the wire because it will be well
into January or Feb before they ship my wings? Has anyone else gone through
this and has Van's been good about honoring the price at the time of order?
>
> Will #91056
> http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
I will make a WAG. The fuel lines from the right tank and left tank are
different. The difference that matters is there is a low spot in the right
line when water collects when you are in flight. Water freezes and engine
stops. Down on the ground it is warmer, ice or slush melts and you are able
to drain.
Here is another WAG if the first isn't the answer. There might be some
debris in the right line like a piece of Teflon tape that plugs the line.
Hopefully you haven't used Teflon tape in your oil, vacuum, or gas lines.
> Teflon tape is a great product for water pipe and air compressor
> fittings. It makes the tightening and sealing of pipe fittings easy as
> it reduces the necessary torque to make the seal. The tape is unaffected
> by most chemicals and will not dissolve in water, gasoline or fuel oil.
>
> So what's not to like? The fact that it doesn't dissolve is the real
> problem. Any particle of tape that gets into the system can and will
> plug small openings. If the tape is applied correctly so that the first
> thread is not covered, then a piece of tape will not shear off and get
> into the system THIS time. Many people have done this without a problem.
>
> BUT if the fitting using the tape is ever removed and re-installed, the
> tape shards from the first use are in the fitting threads. It is easy
> to clean the male fitting as you can see when you have it all removed.
> It is almost impossible to remove the tape remains from the female
> internal threads. Any pieces that are missed get forced into your system
> when the fitting re-assembled. They will be circulated thru the system
> whether it is fuel, oil, air or vacuum until these pieces get to a small
> opening, like a carb jet. It will plug it up. The engine will stop, or
> not get proper lubrication.
>
> I understand that a small piece of tape will cause the malfunction and
> destruction of a vacuum pump. Every replacement pump comes with a
> warning that the warrantee is void if you use Teflon tape or any other
> sealer.
>
> then sets so that the proper rotation of fitting like an elbow is
> maintained. It has powdered Teflon so a fitting can be easily tightened.
> The setting is due to a "crazy" type glue. Most fittings can also
> be sealed with simple cheap pipe dope that also uses powdered Teflon.
So if you are a "tape user" start checking out the lines. The big problem
is listed above that if you remove a fitting, the threads need to be very
carefully cleaned to avoid pushing the little tape pieces back in the system
that you are cleaning.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis " <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: RV-List: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight
>
> For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A,
reserving the left
> tank for avgas only.
>
> Several years ago, while flying in the winter at altitude (well below
freezing) my RV-
> 6's engine lost power. I switched tanks to my pure avgas tank, and power
returned.
> As best I could tell, water in the auto gas had come out of solution at
the reduced
> temperature of this flight, turned to ice/slush, and clogged the fuel
system (fuel
> pickup finger strainer, perhaps). I landed, drained a good deal of gas
from the right
> tank by removing the tank's drain, added avgas to the tank, and proceeded
without
> incident. I thought the problem was the crummy (7-11) gas I was using,
that often
> contained water (found when sumping tanks). I switched to a better brand
of auto
> gas (BP), and have had no further problems until today.
>
> Today I left Virginia with one tank of (mostly) auto gas and one tank of
pure avgas. I
> burned the right (autogas) tank down to 1/4 tank or less, landed in
Indiana, and
> refilled both tanks with avgas.
>
> After about an hour of flight on the right tank (the tank that had a small
amount of
> auto gas mixed with 3/4 tank of avgas) the engine lost power. I switched
to the other
> (avgas only) tank, and power returned. Switching back and forth confirmed
that the
> right tank was blocked... fuel flow would immediately drop when the right
tank was
> selected.
>
> I landed, removed the tank drain, drained out a couple of cups of gas,
fueled the
> plane with avgas, and continued the flight (takeoff used the avgas-only
tank, of
> course). After perhaps 1/2 hour of full power flight on the right tank,
fuel flow from
> the right tank stopped again. I was able to complete the flight on the
left (avgas only)
> tank.
>
> I'm puzzled. The flight to Indiana (no fuel problems) saw temps of about
17(F). I
> saw temps of about 10(F) on the second leg... not a lot colder, and the
tank had less
> than 1/4 tank of auto gas at the beginning of the second leg, so why did
the problem
> occur then, and recur after I'd drained the tank?
>
> Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any ideas on a solution? I'm
very
> hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings
against using
> these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
> RV-6A N47TD, 707 hrs
> RV-10 under construction
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 analog module Cable and Support |
Rob, your product is outstanding and your tech support is stellar.
Thanks!!!!!
John D'onofrio
(_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com) )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Diehl <diehldon(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Water and gasoline require alcohol to form a solution.
Given enough water and low enough temperature the water will come out
of solution and freeze,
causing the problem you describe.
Gasoline cut with alcohol should be labeled as such but requirements
and enforcement are uncertain.
Arco and BP are "gasohol" blends here in Washington so are avoided for
aviation fuel.
Don Diehl
Bremerton WA
More than 2,500 happy hours of C-170, C-195 and RV-4 on auto gas.
On Dec 24, 2004, at 16:45, Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A,
> reserving the left
> tank for avgas only.
>
> Several years ago, while flying in the winter at altitude (well below
> freezing) my RV-
> 6's engine lost power. I switched tanks to my pure avgas tank, and
> power returned.
> As best I could tell, water in the auto gas had come out of solution
> at the reduced
> temperature of this flight, turned to ice/slush, and clogged the fuel
> system (fuel
> pickup finger strainer, perhaps).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
Try Earl's Indy at: 1-800-331-4639.
This outfit is in Indianapolis. They have been very helpful to me and
quick to produce whatever I have asked for.
Address is: 302 Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis, IN 46222. Email:
www.earlsindy.com
Local phone: 317/241-0318 fax: 317/247-1128
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
-------------------------------
> From: sarg314
> Subject: RV-List: teflon hose
>
>
> I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel
> lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products
> speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and
> hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce
> carries.
>
> My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
> in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
> back ordered.
>
> Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest
> different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
Hey Will,
Go ahead an order the wings, you just have to pay for them in full before
the 31st of DEC. I have to call them on the 27th to finish paying for my QB
RV-8. They told me that things would be going up 1 to 3 percent on Jan. 1.
Max out the credit card and save the money for something on the panel
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays,
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Price Increase - Can I sneek in?
>
> I knew that Van was going to jack up the prices on 01/01/05, but was
> unaware of just how much...nearly $500 for my much needed wings! I was
> going to place my order before the first of the year to avoid this extra
> cost, but in reviewing the order form, it says "prices are those in effect
> at time of shipment" and Van's is closed until the 27th for my question.
> Does this mean that I can't sneek in under the wire because it will be
> well into January or Feb before they ship my wings? Has anyone else gone
> through this and has Van's been good about honoring the price at the time
> of order?
>
> Will #91056
> http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
> For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A,
reserving the left > tank for avgas only.
>
This is something I've never done. I use autogas in both tanks because I
buy avgas only a couple of times a year. I've been doing that since 1986
and in Scooter since early 2000 when I felt the engine breakin was complete
enough.
> Several years ago, while flying in the winter at altitude (well below
freezing) my RV-
> 6's engine lost power. I switched tanks to my pure avgas tank, and power
> returned. As best I could tell, water in the auto gas had come out of
solution at the > reduced temperature of this flight, turned to ice/slush,
and clogged the fuel system
> (fuel pickup finger strainer, perhaps). I landed, drained a good deal of
gas from the > right tank by removing the tank's drain, added avgas to the
tank, and proceeded
> without incident. I thought the problem was the crummy (7-11) gas I was
using, that > often contained water (found when sumping tanks). I switched
to a better brand of > auto gas (BP), and have had no further problems until
today.
>
Hmmm. That's interesting. From your note, I got the impression you
continued using the cheap gas knowing full well that it contained water,
from time to time. In all the years I've been buying auto gas for my
airplanes, water in the gas has not been a problem. Well, I must admit that
I sometimes get a little in the tanks due to the flush caps; but, I've found
none in the gas I've bought. My question would be to ask why you used the
bad gas knowing it was bad. Thankfully, you wisened up and started buying
gas from a better quality, I hope, gas station.
> Today I left Virginia with one tank of (mostly) auto gas and one tank of
pure avgas. > I burned the right (autogas) tank down to 1/4 tank or less,
landed in Indiana, and
> refilled both tanks with avgas. After about an hour of flight on the
right tank (the
> tank that had a small amount of auto gas mixed with 3/4 tank of avgas) the
engine
> lost power. I switched to the other (avgas only) tank, and power
returned.
> Switching back and forth confirmed that the right tank was blocked... fuel
flow
> would immediately drop when the right tank was selected.
>
> I landed, removed the tank drain, drained out a couple of cups of gas,
fueled the
> plane with avgas, and continued the flight (takeoff used the avgas-only
tank, of
> course). After perhaps 1/2 hour of full power flight on the right tank,
fuel flow from
> the right tank stopped again. I was able to complete the flight on the
left (avgas
> only) tank.
>
Hmm. The big question here is did you introduce water in the tank when you
filled it with avgas. One of the reasons we check our gas is that we can
get water in the tank, no matter what kind of gas we use. Avgas can contain
water, and goodness knows what else, also. The fact that you flew out
almost all of the first tank of gas, that was auto gas, told me you probably
didn't have a problem with the auto gas. It must have been the avgas, or
something else. Otherwise, I'd think you'd have had the problem on the
first leg of your flight.
> I'm puzzled. The flight to Indiana (no fuel problems) saw temps of about
17(F). I
> saw temps of about 10(F) on the second leg... not a lot colder, and the
tank had less > than 1/4 tank of auto gas at the beginning of the second
leg, so why did the problem
> occur then, and recur after I'd drained the tank?
>
Is it possible that the avgas had some water in it that was not given enough
time to settle so that you could drain it off? That does happen, from time
to time. That's why it's good to let the gas settle for a bit before
checking it. Granted, most of us don't do that; but, I've read that we
should do that, anyway. You might have found that the avgas was the
culprit, this time. It does happen. :-) Unlike good gas stations, FBOs
generally don't have the large fuel flows that the gas stations do. If you
buy gas from one that doesn't do a good job of checking for water, you could
end up with some of it in your tanks, just as you did with the 7-11 gas .
However, you should have seen the same results in the other tank, if that
happened. Who knows?
> Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any ideas on a solution? I'm
very
> hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings
against using
> these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
>
I have no idea; but, it could be you have a low spot that's collecting
water. However, it would have to be somewhere between the tank and the
inside of the fuse. The fuse should be warm enough, if you have cabin heat,
to keep things from freezing. The engine compartment is surely warm enough.
Do you have a gascolator between your tank and the inside of the fuse?
I guess one reason I may not have encountered this situation is that I don't
fly when it's that cold. I limit my flying to temps above 30F, most of the
time. I've flown when it's colder; but, it wasn't fun. Still, I seldom see
water in my tanks. When I do, it's from condensation or from a prior rain.
Then, it's only a few drops in the tank sump and has never caused an engine
stoppage.
As for the "gas dry" product, I'm not sure that it would harm anything; but,
it could, I guess. We don't know what ingredients it has and what impacts
it can make on the sealer, fuel system parts, etc. Maybe small amounts
won't hurt anything. I've been reluctant to try it. One would think it
would have similar impacts on auto fuel systems, though.
I know I didn't answer your problem; but, I've not had any problems with my
auto gas usage. I also know we don't have alcohol in our gas, locally.
I've tested for it and asked about it. That may be the difference.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter, 300+ hours on auto gas)
RV-7A #70317 (Working on wings.)
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Tim,
I used auto gas in my C-150 for 4 years and never had a problem like you
describe. There should be cars sitting all along the highways if there is much
water at all in auto gas. Car fuel systems aren't any more immune to water
than our airplanes are. I would look for how water is getting into that right
tank. Perhaps a bad O-ring on the fuel cap, or some other strange leak.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying -- still not painted)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ACS 2002 out of box experience |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Rob Great Work on the cabling issue.
I have bench flown the unit and my initial impressions are this:
1. Out of the box I was very impressed with the quality of the sensors
and the thoroughness of the labeling and so forth.
2. Just a few install issues that I hope to get worked out in the docs.
As an example it says "don't connect the mac servos directly to the ACS
2002." OK so right above it it says "the system is designed to work with
the MAC servos." Sooooo... Which is it? What wire goes where? Do I need
a 1k resistor to get the voltage drop you need? Spoon feed me please.
3. The screen is awesome.
4. In several places in the doc there are "????" in there that look like
place holders where you meant to put in very important information. A
search of the doc for these will yield quite a few.
5. I was surprised not to have a wire to annunciate a warning light. Yes
you have audio, yes you have the unit indicating a problem, but a visual
indicator in the field of view, which you unit may not be in, would be a
feature that other units have that you do not.
6. There are several places where you took great care in explaining
things with very nice pictures. Other areas Im scratching me head.
7. There are 2 9 pin db connectors on the back of the display with
absolutely no wiring diagram for them. This looks like a tremendous
oversight. A straight fwd index with pin outs is a must.
As a rule, spoon feed the customer and don't give them (me) ANY room for
screwing up.
These are my first days impressions.
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module Cable and Support
>>I assume you mean this: Whichever cable you use it will be
unshielded and
>>cause lots of problems with RFI.
We offer 4 different cables.
1. 18" Ribbon
2. 2.5' Shielded Round Cable
3. 5' Shielded Round Cable
4. 15' Shielded Round Cable. Used for Long-EZ and Burkut
None of the cables will "cause lots of problems with RFI" The only RFI
problems that we have had were are on very early units that did not have
a filter
on the internal 3" cable that connects the LCD panel to the circuit
board.
If anyone ever has a question please contact me. I am usually
available 7
days a week 365 days a year. I doubt that anyone has better support
than we
do. My cell phone number is always on the company answering machine.
Here
are the ways to get help:
1. Email _Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com_
(mailto:Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com)
2. Company Phone: (503) 598-7727
3. Cell Phone: (503) 701-5042 (I always have the cell 24/7)
4. Fly over to my house OR40 , On a nice day there are usually RV's
in
the yard and Jennifer might even make lunch.
We have sold hundreds of systems and we have had very few problems, if
we
did would I give out my cell phone number?
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems, Inc.
Advanced Engine Monitoring - Advanced AOA Systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker Precision
has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in the
cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
http://www.bakerprecision.com/hose.htm
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Brame" <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Teflon Hose
>
> Try Earl's Indy at: 1-800-331-4639.
>
> This outfit is in Indianapolis. They have been very helpful to me and
> quick to produce whatever I have asked for.
>
> Address is: 302 Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis, IN 46222. Email:
> www.earlsindy.com
> Local phone: 317/241-0318 fax: 317/247-1128
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> -------------------------------
>
>
> > From: sarg314
> > Subject: RV-List: teflon hose
> >
> >
> > I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel
> > lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products
> > speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and
> > hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce
> > carries.
> >
> > My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
> > in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
> > back ordered.
> >
> > Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest
> > different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A, reserving
the left
>tank for avgas only.
>
>
I know it would violate your pattern for several years, but have you
tried running pure AvGas in the right tank, and pure Auto Gas in the
left tank? If the problem is really with the Auto Gas, the problem
should move with the gas. If the problem is actually with your fuel
system (clogged line somewhere, perhaps, or trapped water in a low spot)
then you should be able to identify it.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
Jerry:
Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
fittings on the hose?
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
>I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker Precision
>has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
>used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
>prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in the
>cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
Order by the dash number. -6 hose uses -6 firelseeve.
Here is the fire sleeve on Bakers site:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
>
> Jerry:
> Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
> you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
> firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
> fittings on the hose?
>
> Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> >
> >I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker
Precision
> >has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
> >used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
> >prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in
the
> >cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience |
> 7. There are 2 9 pin db connectors on the back of the display with
> absolutely no wiring diagram for them. This looks like a tremendous
> oversight. A straight fwd index with pin outs is a must.
Mike,
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/public/ACS2002_CD_IMAGE/ACS2002_System_Manual_V2_3.pdf
It's all in there...see page 27 for the audio connection pinouts. Here's
what it says:
RS-232 Port 2 and Sound connections
DB-9
Pin Description
4 26 Ohm Speaker Audio Output
5 Ground
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 560 Ohm Audio Output
And the PC connection is covered here:
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/public/ACS2002_CD_IMAGE/50906_Field_Programming_Cable.pdf
I installed an "early" ACS2002 and even then had no shortage of information
for installation. It's all in there if you look for it! ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience |
> Just a few install issues that I hope to get worked out in the docs.
>?As an example it says "don't connect the mac servos directly to the ACS
>2002." OK so right above it it says "the system is designed to work with
>the MAC servos." Sooooo... Which is it? What wire goes where? Do I need
>a 1k resistor to get the voltage drop you need? Spoon feed me please.
Sorry for the confusion:
The manual actually says the following:
The system is designed to read the position transducer that is in the MAC
trim servo. The MAC servo has 5 wires. The two white wires are for motor
operation and the color-striped wires are for the position transducer. If the
indicator is reversed you will need to swap the orange and blue striped
wires.
CAUTION: DO NOT connect the MAC indicators and the ACS2002 to the MAC trim
servos. The MAC trim indicators are +12V and the ACS2002 is +10V.
I will change the manual next week to make this more clear.
You do not want to connect the MAC INDICATORS and the ACS2002. All you need
to do is connect the MAC servos 3 colored wires to the ACS using the
schematic on page: 20 and DO NOT CONNECT the MAC LED Indicators. You do NOT need
resistors.
Blue Wire +10V
Orange Wire Common
Green Wire to (Aileron or Elevator) input on the ACS
The connections for the Screen ports are on page 19 of the manual. We
provide the cable for programming so you do not need the connections
I hope this helps,
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/23/04 3:34:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sarg314(at)comcast.net writes:
<< My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
back ordered. >>
Tom: I suggest you ask the dealer to order the fittings and hose you need.
I used quite a few Earl's fittings on my RV-6 and nearly all had to ordered
by the local Earl's
dealer. If that doesn't work contact Earl's directly and ask them where to
obtain what you need. You're right, it seems to be good stuff
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying, 20+ hours so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
There seem to be a number of reasonably good choice in a Graphical EIS!
ACS, Vision Micro, JPI, IK, AIM, and Grand Rapids.
I've seen some comments on ACS recently, and have searched the archives but
would appreciate current thoughts . . . the good, the bad and the ugly?!
Thanks! and Happy New Year!
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom" <tom(at)mstay.com> |
The ACS is a well designed device and their support is very good. I am a
satisfied customer.
Tom Nalevanko
CMA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
Jerry:
What has confused me about the fire sleeve size is that different
manufacturers -6 hoses have different O.D.'s. Aeroquip 666 teflon hose
has O.D. of 0.466, while Earl's -6 hose is 0.546 O.D. I guess aeroquip
-6 firesleeve fits aeroquip -6 hose, but probably not an Earl's -6 Does
Earls make their own firesleeve, or do I use a -8 aeroquip firesleeve to
fit a -6 earl's hose, or....?
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
>Order by the dash number. -6 hose uses -6 firelseeve.
>
>Here is the fire sleeve on Bakers site:
>http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm
>
>Jerry Calvert
>N296JC RV6
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Jerry:
>> Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
>>you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
>>firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
>>fittings on the hose?
>>
>>Jerry Calvert wrote
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Burden" <crb(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04 |
Hi List,
I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been unable
to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite 14-2. If any
of you have some left over from your project that you would like to sell and
are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona, please let me know.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Ron
crb@commspeed .net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
I don't thinke the hose size is going to make that much difference. The
fire sleeve has to slide on over the fittings once the hose is built and the
fittings are larger than the hose. The -6 nuts on hose fittings should be
fairly comparable in size I would think.
I ordered all fittings, hose, and sleeve from Baker Precision and all fit
nicely.
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
>
> Jerry:
> What has confused me about the fire sleeve size is that different
> manufacturers -6 hoses have different O.D.'s. Aeroquip 666 teflon hose
> has O.D. of 0.466, while Earl's -6 hose is 0.546 O.D. I guess aeroquip
> -6 firesleeve fits aeroquip -6 hose, but probably not an Earl's -6 Does
> Earls make their own firesleeve, or do I use a -8 aeroquip firesleeve to
> fit a -6 earl's hose, or....?
>
> Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> >
> >Order by the dash number. -6 hose uses -6 firelseeve.
> >
> >Here is the fire sleeve on Bakers site:
> >http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm
> >
> >Jerry Calvert
> >N296JC RV6
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Jerry:
> >> Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
> >>you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
> >>firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
> >>fittings on the hose?
> >>
> >>Jerry Calvert wrote
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
I was looking at the Sun-n-Fun web site this morning and noticed that there
is an RV fly in next month. Seems to be the third year they have done it.
Has anybody been in the past? Looks like there will be some prizes for
different things.
Here is the web site.
http://www.sun-n-fun.org/content/events/details.asp?eventid=67§ion=yearround&body=events
Scott Frierson
RV6-A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04 |
Aircraft Spruce has powdered alodine, but it's in a huge quantity. For a
more reasonable amount and cost, I had good luck with the liquid stuff.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Flagstaff, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Burden
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Hi List,
I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been unable
to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite 14-2. If any
of you have some left over from your project that you would like to sell and
are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona, please let me know.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Ron
crb@commspeed .net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04 |
Ron,
I'm an RV6 builder located in North Phoenix AZ. I bought 10lbs of Iridite
14-2 from Allied Plating Supplies in Fl. in August this year (2004). 10 lbs
was the minimum order. I would be glad to sell you a couple of pounds. 1
lb. of Iridite will make 10 gallons of liquid Alodine solution. Works great.
Contact me off list if you are interested at jnewsum1(at)msn.com
Dave Newsum
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Burden
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Hi List,
I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been unable
to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite 14-2. If any
of you have some left over from your project that you would like to sell and
are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona, please let me know.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Ron
crb@commspeed .net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a(at)prodigy.net> |
Good RV fly-in with over 100 RV's last year.Check
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/VAF-FL-Wing.html for more info.
Ollie 6A Central Fl.
----- Original Message -----
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV Fly-in
>
> I was looking at the Sun-n-Fun web site this morning and noticed that
> there
> is an RV fly in next month. Seems to be the third year they have done it.
> Has anybody been in the past? Looks like there will be some prizes for
> different things.
> Here is the web site.
>
> http://www.sun-n-fun.org/content/events/details.asp?eventid=67§ion=yearround&body=events
>
> Scott Frierson
> RV6-A Flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig <craigtxtx(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Price Increase - Can I sneek in? |
I just ordered a QB kit and paid in full just prior to year end and they honored
the 2004 price. My 8AQB is scheduled to ship in Mar./April time frame. Call
them on Mon. and see what they tell you.
Craig
8AQB - Just started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report 330-16,
G-23, landin 25. very turbulent. Had to tuch down long at better than 90mp
indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and stay in
neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would venture
that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from about a 40d
crab to nearly sideways befor I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in Tweety
bird now, glad it didnt happen early on. Since we dont have a max
demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of the
more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind for our
planes. Charlie heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Charles Heathco wrote:
>
> Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report 330-16,
> G-23, landin 25. very turbulent. Had to tuch down long at better than 90mp
> indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and stay in
> neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would venture
> that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from about a 40d
> crab to nearly sideways befor I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in Tweety
> bird now, glad it didnt happen early on. Since we dont have a max
> demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of the
> more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind for our
> planes. Charlie heathco
Charlie, I have a little over 600 hrs in my RV-6, and a couple weeks ago
experienced a landing that I feel is pretty much max crosswind for this
pilot in my taildragger.
The active runway at DCU was 36, and the wind was 290 at 19k, gusting
26k. To make things more interesting, the gusting wind was blowing over
the adjacent community college campus's various multifloor buildings and
also the hangars at DCU. This creates some pretty active rotor action.
The landing(s)(!) was safe but the plane had to be flown all the way
down with full rudder. Taxiing was interesting because I had a light
fuel load, no passenger, and the -6 with its tail planted on the ground
wanted to go flying again in the strongest gusts. I decided at that
point that 26k crosswind component would work just fine for my personal
limit. I might be able to stretch the definition of "landing" in order
to accommodate a stronger crosswind, but it would probably be a bit
ugly. :-)
As an afterthought, if facing a similar situation on a wide runway like
DCU's, I would touch down on the downwind side and aim the plane
diagonally across the runway in order to reduce the crosswind component
as much as possible. The ground speed of the RV is so low in that much
wind that there would be plenty of runway with which to work.
Even after 600+ hours in the plane, it was definitely a learning
experience! :-)
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> RV-List Digest": chaztuna(at)adelphia.net |
RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Pat,
At $1.66 per gallon for powder versus $20 to $27 per gallon liquid,
there is NO good deal on liquid Alodine or Iridite. Do the math. Even
buying 10 pounds (minumum purchase quantity for powder. Enough to make 100
- 130 gallons) of Iridite 14-2 at $166 is a better deal than buying 4-5
gallons of liquid at the prices above.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Aircraft Spruce has powdered alodine, but it's in a huge quantity. For a
>more reasonable amount and cost, I had good luck with the liquid stuff.
>
>Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Flagstaff, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Burden
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>
>Hi List,
>
>I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been unable
>to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite 14-2. If any
>of you have some left over from your project that you would like to sell and
>are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona, please let me know.
>
>Thanks in advance for your help,
>
>Ron
>crb@commspeed .net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
My personal experience in my RV-6A was a right quartering headwind with
gusts to 24-32 knots. Biggest problem was fighting the effects caused by
the wind direction/velocity being perturbed by buildings and trees along the
runway. Very exciting and I was happy to have a nose gear to plant firmly
on the runway and lower the wing's angle of attack. Won't willing fly in
that type of condition again.
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind
>
> Charles Heathco wrote:
> >
> > Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report 330-16,
> > G-23, landin 25. very turbulent. Had to tuch down long at better than
90mp
> > indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and stay
in
> > neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would
venture
> > that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from about a
40d
> > crab to nearly sideways befor I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in
Tweety
> > bird now, glad it didnt happen early on. Since we dont have a max
> > demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of the
> > more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind for
our
> > planes. Charlie heathco
>
>
> Charlie, I have a little over 600 hrs in my RV-6, and a couple weeks ago
> experienced a landing that I feel is pretty much max crosswind for this
> pilot in my taildragger.
>
> The active runway at DCU was 36, and the wind was 290 at 19k, gusting
> 26k. To make things more interesting, the gusting wind was blowing over
> the adjacent community college campus's various multifloor buildings and
> also the hangars at DCU. This creates some pretty active rotor action.
>
> The landing(s)(!) was safe but the plane had to be flown all the way
> down with full rudder. Taxiing was interesting because I had a light
> fuel load, no passenger, and the -6 with its tail planted on the ground
> wanted to go flying again in the strongest gusts. I decided at that
> point that 26k crosswind component would work just fine for my personal
> limit. I might be able to stretch the definition of "landing" in order
> to accommodate a stronger crosswind, but it would probably be a bit
> ugly. :-)
>
> As an afterthought, if facing a similar situation on a wide runway like
> DCU's, I would touch down on the downwind side and aim the plane
> diagonally across the runway in order to reduce the crosswind component
> as much as possible. The ground speed of the RV is so low in that much
> wind that there would be plenty of runway with which to work.
>
> Even after 600+ hours in the plane, it was definitely a learning
> experience! :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
> http://thervjournal.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Charles Heathco wrote:
>
> Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report 330-16,
> G-23, landing 25. very turbulent. Had to touch down long at better than
90mp
> indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and stay
in
> neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would
venture
> that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from about a
40d
> crab to nearly sideways before I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in Tweety
> bird now, glad it didn't happen early on. Since we don't have a max
> demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of the
> more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind for
our
> planes. Charlie heathco
=============================
Charlie-
25kts direct cross is about my limit and it certainly helps if it's steady.
I had this situation going into Henderson NV on 12/23 and it was
interesting, but still quite safe. We were getting tumbleweed status reports
on
approach.
No tail-dragger fliers were anywhere near the airport, probably hiding at
home. ;o).
GV (RV-6A N1GV, Flying 736hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | special FWF nuts? |
Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps FWF?
Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used different style
nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
Thanks,
lucky
Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like onthe Adel clamps FWF?
Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuffthey useddifferent style
nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
Thanks,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis " <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Thanks for all the responses on and off the list. I've never used Teflon tape
on my fuel
system, so that's not a likely factor. With above freezing temps today I encountered
no
problems flying from the right tank. I'm pretty confident fuel tank or fuel line
icing was the
problem. I found no water in the tank when I sumped it, but that would be consistent
with the
idea that the water only came out of solution at the much colder temps encountered
during the
flight, and would have been reabsorbed when temps climbed.
> I'm very
> hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings against
using
> these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
Here's an interesting note from Lycoming Service Instruction 1070M
(www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/
maintenancePublications/serviceInstructions/SI1070M.pdf).
"NOTE Isopropyl alcohol in amounts not to exceed 1% per volume may be
added to the fuel to prevent ice formation in fuel lines and tanks. Although
approved for use in Textron Lycoming engines, isopropyl alcohol should not
be used in the aircraft fuel systems unless recommended by the aircraft
manufacturer."
A caution I've found at multiple sources is that isopropyl alcohol is often sold
as
70/30 (30% water) solution, which is not what is needed. The "dry" (99+% isopropyl
alcohol), sometimes apparently found in "dry gas" automotive products) is what's
needed.
Hoses, gascolator gaskets, and fuel filters will have to be checked for compatability
before use.
Tim Lewis
RV-6A N47TD, 707 hrs
RV-10 under construction
------- End of forwarded message -------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
True enough, especially if you need 100+ gallons. Or if you have enough
friends that you can share it out, which really helps the expense. However,
for those of us unfortunate enough to live in the 'boonies', it makes more
sense to buy the liquid. Yes, the material cost is higher but the bottom
line is lower. By the way, when I 'did the math', I used the actual price,
which is $15-16 per gallon liquid vs. $858 for 60 lbs powder (Aircraft
Spruce's only listed quantity for powder.) Fortunately for Ron, there is
someone fairly nearby that can help him out.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Muddling through without a builder's group, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
RV-List Digest : chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Subject: RE: Liquid versus powdered Alodine or Iridite was RV-List: Re:
RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
--> RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Pat,
At $1.66 per gallon for powder versus $20 to $27 per gallon liquid, there
is NO good deal on liquid Alodine or Iridite. Do the math. Even buying 10
pounds (minumum purchase quantity for powder. Enough to make 100
- 130 gallons) of Iridite 14-2 at $166 is a better deal than buying 4-5
gallons of liquid at the prices above.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Aircraft Spruce has powdered alodine, but it's in a huge quantity. For
>a more reasonable amount and cost, I had good luck with the liquid stuff.
>
>Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Flagstaff, AZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Burden
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>
>Hi List,
>
>I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been
>unable to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite
>14-2. If any of you have some left over from your project that you
>would like to sell and are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona,
please let me know.
>
>Thanks in advance for your help,
>
>Ron
>crb@commspeed .net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | special FWF nuts? |
Lucky:
BEST PRACTICE is to use only all metal locknuts firewall forward.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: RV-List: special FWF nuts?
Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps
FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used different
style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
Thanks,
lucky
Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like onthe Adel clamps
FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuffthey useddifferent
style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
Thanks,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Black" <black(at)usa.sh> |
There's a newer model GPS for sale on ebay. The bids look pretty low.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4513914376>
&item=4513914376
Has anyone used one of these?
Bob Black
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: special FWF nuts? |
> BEST PRACTICE is to use only all metal locknuts firewall forward.
Note that on the RV-7 finish kit drawings, Van's themselves called out a
nylok nut on the bolt that attaches the top of the main landing gear to the
engine mount. That looked fishy to me, so I went with an all metal stop nut
instead. IIRC, that was the only place in the plans that called for nylok
under the cowl.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: special FWF nuts? |
> Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like onthe Adel clamps
FWF? Are > the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
>
> I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuffthey useddifferent
style nuts but > one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon
inserts.
>
At the risk of being flamed, here is a different slant on the answers I've
seen, already.
To some, it's taboo to use AN365 nylon insert nuts inside the engine
section. I know better. My Grumman-American Cheetah, a commercially built
airplane, had them in the engine compartment and didn't suffer from it. I
flew that airplane for over nine years and never had to replace the AN365
nuts and never had one back off. In Scooter, I installed AN365s in the
engine compartment except near the exhaust system. Having them close to the
exhaust is a no-no, of course. You'll need steel locking nuts there. I
also used the AN365 supplied with the nose gear mount. Guess what. It
hasn't fallen off Scooter, yet. That nut hasn't moved in five years! Nor
have any of the other AN365s I installed.
Use all steel locking nuts, if you're worried about the heat generated in
the engine. Keep in mind that heat high enough to melt the inserts is
probably going to be hot enough to damage/melt the cowl, oil filler tube,
Adel clamps, hoses, tie wraps, etc. Under normal operating conditions, it
doesn't seem to get that hot. If you're worried about how well the inserts
will stay flexible, you could always replace them instead of reusing them,
when needed.
I hope this helps. There is more discussion on this in the archives. As
for you guys who won't use AN365s, flame away! I can handle it. Just keep
in mind that my reply is based on my experiences and not what someone else
told me. :-) Just in case that doesn't work, I just looked it up in my
copy of the FAA's Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics General Handbook. It says
I can use them in the engine compartment, as well. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter, five years and still going)
RV-7A #70317 (Wings construction stalled for the holidays)
EAA Tech. Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
>
> Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for all the responses on and off the list. I've never used
>> Teflon tape on my fuel
>> system, so that's not a likely factor. With above freezing temps
>> today I encountered no
>> problems flying from the right tank. I'm pretty confident fuel tank
>> or fuel line icing was the
>> problem. I found no water in the tank when I sumped it, but that
>> would be consistent with the
>> idea that the water only came out of solution at the much colder
>> temps encountered during the
>> flight, and would have been reabsorbed when temps climbed.
>>
> HUH? Tim, I hate to send you back to "problem solving 101", but fuel
> and water don't mix at any temperature. What can happen, and has been
> suggested, is that water collects in a low spot, which freezes and
> blocks (or severely reduces) the fuel flow. The only way to get the
> water out of the low spot is to use high pressure air to blow it out.
> Do not use 'dri-gas' as it's mostly alcohol and will do harm to seals
> and diaphragms.
> Linn
>
But, if you are burning auto gas, as Tim was, there is a good chance
that there is some alcohol in the fuel. The alcohol will carry water
in solution. You can see this if you have a clear jar. Pour a bit of
water in the jar, and mark where the top of the water is. Pour a bunch
of auto gas in the jar, stir it up, then let it sit. If there is
alcohol in it, you'll see that the line between the water and gas is
lower than where the top of the water is. Some of the water has been
absorbed into the alcohol.
If you try this with avgas, the line between the water and the gas
should be where the top of the water was before you poured the gas in
the jar.
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Pat
I purchased mine from Allied Plating Supplies
800 432 8692
They might ship
Peter
>
> Pat,
> At $1.66 per gallon for powder versus $20 to $27 per gallon liquid,
>
> there is NO good deal on liquid Alodine or Iridite. Do the math. Even
> buying 10 pounds (minumum purchase quantity for powder. Enough to make
> 100 - 130 gallons) of Iridite 14-2 at $166 is a better deal than
> buying 4-5 gallons of liquid at the prices above. Charlie Kuss
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Fwd: Alodine Powder Purchasing |
Tim sent this to me directly. I'm posting it to the list.
Charlie Kuss
>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 06:38:05 -0600
>From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>To: chaztuna(at)adelphia.net, webmaster(at)flion.com, crb(at)commspeed.net
>Subject: Alodine Powder Purchasing
>
>Here's a post I put out on 10/11/2004 after finding out where I could
>get smaller quantities of alodine powder. I got mine from Eldorado.
>
>Having searched far and wide for alodine in powder form, I have now
>found 2 sources from other RV-10 builders, so here is a post with
>info just for future reference:
>
>----------------
>Crest Industrial Chemicals, Inc
>Crest 713 780-1828 or 800-833-8517 texas, 800-622-9006 US
>10 lb container of powder (PCC-6) $20/lb
>5 gallon container of concentrated liquid acid (Crest Acid Cleaner #12)
>Price Unknown
>
>The powder is mixed 1.2 to 2.5 ounces per gallon water and the acid is
>normally mixed 6 parts water to 1 acid. You can reach Crest directly at
>(405) 232-6577 and ask for Doug Bennett. He is their engineering expert.
>
>----------------
>Eldorado Chemical
>http://www.eldoradochem.com/
>contact: Travis Morgan
>Look under conversion coatings
>
>Dorado Kote 1 (DK-1)
>5lb pail = $87.52
>10lb pail = $149.08
>50 lb pail = $677.68
>
>fax a purchase order to 210-653-0825
>They do accept Visa, MC, and AMEX
>
>Also available are corrosion removers, and aluminum brightners.
>
>-----------------
>
>
>Hope this helps future builders with their search.
>Tim
>-=-=-
>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>Wing Kit - In progress
>--
>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>Tim(at)MyRV10.com
>Wing Kit - Almost Complete
>QB Fuse - Coming soon!
>'77 Sundowner - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> RV-List Digest": chaztuna(at)adelphia.net |
RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
20 Msgs - 12/23/04
Pat,
I would not recommend that any RV builder buy their Alodine (or Iridite
or Dorado Kote 1) from ACS. To expensive. What is not factored into your
equation, is the HazMat shipping charges you incur, when you order liquid
chromic acid or phosphoric acid compounds from ANY vendor.
Will those who have ordered liquid Alodine from ACS please pipe up here?
I know that the shipping charges have been surprising. A number of builders
have commented on that fact, on list, in the past. When I started my 8A
project, I purchased a liquid equivalent of Alodine (marketed by PPG &
DuPont) from my local automotive paint store. They charged between $21-$27
per liquid gallon. (they had to pay the HazMat shipping fees).
Allied Plating Supply will sell you 10 pounds of MacDirmid's Iridite 14-2
powder for $166. That the same as what I would pay for 6.5 gallons of
liquid, locally. The other factor is that liquid chromic acids have a shelf
life and are photochemically reactive. My experience is that about 18-24
months is the longest the liquid will be viable. Don't use this stuff (or
store it for that matter) in sunlight. It will be ruined in one use. The
powder will keep for up to 5 years, if kept dry. With the powder, you can
mix only the amount needed. You can split the cost with two other builders,
as 30 - 40 gallons will allow you to treat even the largest parts of your
project by "dipping".
I know other methods of application can be used, but they tend to be
inferior (in my experience and that of all my buddies) to dipping the parts
prior to priming. If you are building a QB and intend to spray or sponge
the chromic acid compound on the completed aircraft, prior to paint, then
purchasing the liquid will be more economical. I would suggest that the
listers check with their local automotive paint supply store for these
chemicals before ordering it from ACS. No wait and the price will be
similar when the HazMAT shipping is factored in. I've never been charged
for HazMat shipping when I purchased the powder. Even for a builder in the
boonies, I think you could arrange a "group purchase" of 10 pounds of the
powder and save money. One person would simply have to take delivery and
distribute to the others. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it! :-)
Charlie Kuss
>
>True enough, especially if you need 100+ gallons. Or if you have enough
>friends that you can share it out, which really helps the expense. However,
>for those of us unfortunate enough to live in the 'boonies', it makes more
>sense to buy the liquid. Yes, the material cost is higher but the bottom
>line is lower. By the way, when I 'did the math', I used the actual price,
>which is $15-16 per gallon liquid vs. $858 for 60 lbs powder (Aircraft
>Spruce's only listed quantity for powder.) Fortunately for Ron, there is
>someone fairly nearby that can help him out.
>
>Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Muddling through without a builder's group, etc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
> RV-List Digest : chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Liquid versus powdered Alodine or Iridite was RV-List: Re:
>RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>--> RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>Pat,
> At $1.66 per gallon for powder versus $20 to $27 per gallon liquid, there
>is NO good deal on liquid Alodine or Iridite. Do the math. Even buying 10
>pounds (minumum purchase quantity for powder. Enough to make 100
>- 130 gallons) of Iridite 14-2 at $166 is a better deal than buying 4-5
>gallons of liquid at the prices above.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >
> >Aircraft Spruce has powdered alodine, but it's in a huge quantity. For
> >a more reasonable amount and cost, I had good luck with the liquid stuff.
> >
> >Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Flagstaff, AZ
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Burden
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
> >
> >
> >Hi List,
> >
> >I am a new builder (RV7A empennage) in Cottonwood, AZ. I have been
> >unable to locate a reasonable source for powdered Alodine or Iridite
> >14-2. If any of you have some left over from your project that you
> >would like to sell and are within a few hours drive of northern Arizona,
>please let me know.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for your help,
> >
> >Ron
> >crb@commspeed .net
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Interesting and confusing. Here is yet another selected part copied from
the below referenced material: "it is not permissible in any instance to
use automotive fuel in aircraft engines, regardless of octane or advertised
features because of the corrosive effect of its chlorine content and because
of vapor lock that could result due to its high vapor pressure. Any fuel
used in Textron Lycoming engines must conform with Specifications ASTM-D910
or MIL-G-5572F.".......And I might add because it is so much cheaper..
Another copied reference from Lycoming for those of us who might be tempted
to use economical auto gas.......
"There has been trend toward using motor gasoline in aircraft engines.
Gasoline engines intended for use in aircraft were designed for and should
be run on one of the ASTM specified grades of aviation gasoline. Most major
engine manufacturers specifically exclude motor gasoline from the approved
fuels list. For a number of reasons, the use of motor gasoline in aircraft
in NOT recommended. Motor gasoline is manufactured to much looser
specifications than that of aviation gasoline. Quality and performance vary
widely from refiner to refiner and from location to location. Quality
control and quality ensurance in motor gasoline is much less stringent. The
risk of contamination is also greater due to less careful handling. Also,
many components of motor gasoline, especially detergents and oxygenated
fuels, are quite variable in type and proportion and are generally not known
or readily detectable. Motor gasoline has a much wider distillation pattern
than avgas. This can result in poor fuel distribution, poor anti-knock
component distribution, and excessive motor oil dilution. Motor gasoline is
generally more volatile than avgas and could lead to increased vapor-off,
vapor lock and carburetor icing. The anti-knock properties of motor gasoline
are also different. While the octane ratings appear similar in number, the
tests are conducted differently and are not comparable. The stability of
motor gasoline is also much lower than avgas. It WILL form "gum" much more
readily leading to deposits on fuel system and engine components. This can
result in fuel system malfunction, filter clogging, or engine problems such
as valve sticking. The presence of aromatic, or ring, hydrocarbons are not
limited as they are in avgas. Because of their solvent characteristics, they
may present problems to certain aircraft components. The presence of
oxygenated compounds is quite common in motor gasoline can cause
compatibility problems with fuel lines, seals, gaskets and fuel tank
materials. Oxygenated compounds also increase the tendency of fuel to hold
water. Also, many other additive that are permitted in motor gasoline are
not permitted in aviation gasoline. Some compounds used to control knock in
motor gasoline can result in more corrosive combustion products. Motor
gasoline today is also generally unleaded or of extremely low lead content.
This can lead to excessive valve and valve seat wear. One of the most basic
issues is safety. The quality of motor gasoline is not an issue in
automobile safety. The quality of fuel in aviation is of critical importance
to safety. Highest quality fuel can only be ensured through the use of ASTM
specification aviation gasoline. The responsibility for the consequences
resulting from the use of motor gasoline in aircraft is directly borne by
the owner or operator who chooses to do so. The possible risks to safety and
to aircraft engines and components are hardly outweighed by economic or
availability issues. The use of motor gasoline on aircraft is neither
recommended nor wise."
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/support/publications/maintenance.html
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> Thanks for all the responses on and off the list. I've never used Teflon
tape on my fuel
> system, so that's not a likely factor. With above freezing temps today I
encountered no
> problems flying from the right tank. I'm pretty confident fuel tank or
fuel line icing was the
> problem. I found no water in the tank when I sumped it, but that would be
consistent with the
> idea that the water only came out of solution at the much colder temps
encountered during the
> flight, and would have been reabsorbed when temps climbed.
>
> > I'm very
> > hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings
against using
> > these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
>
> Here's an interesting note from Lycoming Service Instruction 1070M
>
(www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/maintenancePublications/servi
ceInstructions/SI1070M.pdf).
>
> "NOTE Isopropyl alcohol in amounts not to exceed 1% per volume may be
> added to the fuel to prevent ice formation in fuel lines and tanks.
Although
> approved for use in Textron Lycoming engines, isopropyl alcohol should not
> be used in the aircraft fuel systems unless recommended by the aircraft
> manufacturer."
>
> A caution I've found at multiple sources is that isopropyl alcohol is
often sold as
> 70/30 (30% water) solution, which is not what is needed. The "dry" (99+%
isopropyl
> alcohol), sometimes apparently found in "dry gas" automotive products) is
what's needed.
>
> Hoses, gascolator gaskets, and fuel filters will have to be checked for
compatability
> before use.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts? |
I just dug out my obviously seldomed used Standard Aircraft Handbook for mechanics
and technicians. Pg. 143 says a high temp self locking nut should be use
for areas ABOVE 250 degrees F. The nylon or fiber insert lock nuts are for applications
below 250.
So what's the temp of and around the engine mount where I want to clamp wires to
the mount? I'll bet it's below 250 unless there's a damn fire going on up there.
As for Van's kits, there are no references to AN363 in the on-line bag contents
files other than in the finish kit and those 2 are being referenced as being
replaced by a DIFFERENT nut alltogether!
BAG 914-3 GEAR LEG HARDWARE
2.000 NUT 1/4-20 SELF LOCK REPLACES: AN363-420 0.10
There are 4 MS21042 nuts in the fuse kit. Two -3 in bag 852 and two -4 in bag
887. Not going to cut it.
Oh well, annoying but not unexpected. Hopefully a local car shop sells something
similar if I decide to go the all metal way today...
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> Any lock nut forward of the firewall (under the cowl) should be an all steel
> lock nut. There are some in the hardware in the kit, or you can order more from
> suppliers.
>
> Roberta
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net
> To: RV-List ; RV yahoo
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:59 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
>
>
>
> Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps
> FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
>
> I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used different
> style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
>
> Thanks,
> lucky
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
>
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
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>
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>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
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>
I just dug out my obviously seldomed used Standard Aircraft Handbook for mechanics
and technicians. Pg. 143 says a high temp self locking nut should be use for
areas ABOVE 250 degrees F. The nylon or fiber insert lock nuts are for applications
below 250.
So what's the temp of and around the engine mount where I want to clamp wires to
the mount? I'll bet it's below 250 unless there's a damn fire going on up there.
As for Van's kits, there are no references to AN363 in the on-line bag contents
files other than in the finish kit and those 2 are being referenced as being
replaced by a DIFFERENT nut alltogether!
BAG 914-3 GEAR LEG HARDWARE
2.000 NUT 1/4-20 SELF LOCK REPLACES: AN363-420 0.10
There are 4 MS21042 nuts in the fuse kit. Two -3 in bag 852 and two -4 in bag 887.
Not going to cut it.
Oh well, annoying but not unexpected. Hopefully a local car shop sells something
similar if I decide to go the all metal way today...
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
Any lock nut forward of the firewall (under the cowl) should be an all steel
lock nut. There are some in the hardware in the kit, or you can order more from
suppliers.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net
To: RV-List ; RV yahoo
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps
FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used different
style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon inserts.
Thanks,
lucky
[N
on-text portions of this message have been removed]
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
Get unlimited calls to
U.S./Canada
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sponsor --------------------~--
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <rembree(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>>HUH? Tim, I hate to send you back to "problem solving 101", but fuel
>>and water don't mix at any temperature. What can happen, and has been
>>suggested, is that water collects in a low spot, which freezes and
>>blocks (or severely reduces) the fuel flow. The only way to get the
>>water out of the low spot is to use high pressure air to blow it out.
>>Do not use 'dri-gas' as it's mostly alcohol and will do harm to seals
>>and diaphragms.
>>Linn
>>
>>
>>
>But, if you are burning auto gas, as Tim was, there is a good chance
>that there is some alcohol in the fuel. The alcohol will carry water
>in solution. You can see this if you have a clear jar. Pour a bit of
>water in the jar, and mark where the top of the water is. Pour a bunch
>of auto gas in the jar, stir it up, then let it sit. If there is
>alcohol in it, you'll see that the line between the water and gas is
>lower than where the top of the water is. Some of the water has been
>absorbed into the alcohol.
>
>If you try this with avgas, the line between the water and the gas
>should be where the top of the water was before you poured the gas in
>the jar.
>
>Kevin Horton
>
>
>
>
Tim,
You might have a good understanding of how the solubility of water in
gasoline changes with temperature but this link explains it better than
I can.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf
Some years ago when there was a discussion on the use of fuel filters
rather than gascolators I expressed concern after finding ice crystals
when draining the sumps. There can be very large swings in daily
temperatures in Alberta and it was during the -30 C periods that I
would find the crystals. I feel that this could be enough to plug a
filter under the right conditions. I'm not sure what you have in your
fuel system, however, looking at the physics a little closer might
explain it. I also use auto fuel but always buy from one of the major
brand companys.
Roger Embree
C-GIRH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crosswind Limits |
| From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
I'm an RV FNG (0.0 hours) but have a lot of military jet time. The
crosswind limits on the A-4 with spoilers deployed were 25 kts
symmetrical and 15 kts assymetrical. Those upper limits were a handful
in landing a 13,000 lb. tricycle gear delta wing jet. Do most RV pilots
have a 20+ kt crosswind limit? I would have guessed the number was less
- maybe 15 - 20 kts.
Paul Valovich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derrick Aubuchon <n184da(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crosswind Limits |
In my RV4, I have found that I will "run out of rudder" at 15kts of
crosswind component at normal approach speeds.
So for me, when I hear that the crosswind component is in the 10-15kt
range, I am definitely at my best behavior.
Anything above 15kts,, and I won't even bother.
Remember,, I am speaking of crosswind components,,
And I realize that "mileage" may vary from aircraft to aircraft,, pilot
to pilot,,
These are just my personal limits.
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA (400hrs)
Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:39 AM, Valovich, Paul wrote:
>
> I'm an RV FNG (0.0 hours) but have a lot of military jet time. The
> crosswind limits on the A-4 with spoilers deployed were 25 kts
> symmetrical and 15 kts assymetrical. Those upper limits were a handful
> in landing a 13,000 lb. tricycle gear delta wing jet. Do most RV pilots
> have a 20+ kt crosswind limit? I would have guessed the number was less
> - maybe 15 - 20 kts.
>
> Paul Valovich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
The Lycoming reports that Larry posted can be quite scarey, to say the
least. I guess if I were producing engines and had the liability they have
to contend with, I'd try to scare people off from inovative things, as well.
Alas, that has kept many from enjoying the virtues of using mogas in our
airplanes.
Granted, not all of us can use mogas because of our engine configurations,
alcohol in the fuel, etc.; but, a large number of us can and do. In fact,
Father FAA has approved it for use in many commercially built aircraft. If
it were so dangerous to use, I'm betting the FAA would not have approved its
use. Thankfully, they were open minded enough to give it a go. With that,
I've been able to operate my aircraft with mogas for almost 18 years and
over 1500 engine hours. The result has been cheaper operating costs, clean
plugs, and none of the problems other than vapor locking that was described
in the report. Let me say that the vapor locking had been no big deal,
either.
One thing keeps haunting me. I believe the fuel line freeze up happened on
one flight after the autogas had been used with no problems. After a fill
up, that tank froze up on 100LL after almost a full tank of mogas had been
used. That lead me to believe it may not have been the mogas that was the
problem. Maybe it was; but, it had me second guessing the fuel type at
fault.
In the 18 years I've been using autogas, and very little 100LL, I've never
had a fuel line freeze up from auto gas. In fact, I rarely see water in the
gas except when it rains and gets past the flush caps. If I keep those
lubed, it doesn't get in. Maybe I've just been lucky; but, I don't think
so.
If the FAA has anything to do with it, we'll all be using no lead gas, one
day. I hope the engine manufacturers are ready, by then.
Jim Sears in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
>>No tail-dragger fliers were anywhere near the airport, probably hiding at
>>home. ;o).
>
>
> ((((( **OR** Could this possibly be because they are just a bit better
> pilot than the average nose wheeler. Maybe they were ScareD, respectful
> of forces greater than theirs. Maybe they were home building a larger
> rudder.
>
> Congratulations to all those who handled 25kt gusts and made it. For any of
> us wanting to up the bar of cross wind/gust records, remember that luck
> could be a factor. Maybe those succeeding only got a 24kt gust during their
> 15 seconds of critical time, maybe 23, maybe 20 -- who's to say what
> actually touched their plane? We only know what the gusts were at the wind
> sensoring equipment. Gusts are not consistent across all parts of the
> airport. I am not saying those are not skilled FLYERS. Skill certainly has
> a lot to do with it, but it does not hurt to be lucky -- that is what I am
> saying. What if a gust not earlier predicted/seen, say 30kt occurred at
> just the wrong moment/place when expecting 25kts? -- one day you WILL find
> your personal limit if you keep looking for it....and then what.........
> You still will not know for sure what it is. Being a skilled PILOT might be
> something to admire just as well -- respecting when not to fly *or* to land
> some other airport with a runway more agreeable with the winds.
>
> Advice from this novice tailwheeler: Keep expanding your maximum
> crosswind/gust component and one day you WILL find it....and then
> what......... Higher insurance rates!! My plan: I will seek not to
> expand/find my limit.
I make no claims at being a particularly skilled pilot and I have
certainly enjoyed my share of "luck". No doubt several hundred hours
spent landing very light aircraft and a J-3 in gusty conditions have
instilled a bit more confidence in crosswinds than was present when I
was truly a novice taildragger pilot.
I'm not sure how we can find our "personal limits" without cautiously
expanding our skills. My crosswind landings are conducted with one hand
firmly on the throttle and the mindset that if anything gets out of
hand, the throttle hand goes forward and I'm outa there (and I've done
that a few times).
My reference to the AWOS-reported 19 gusting 26 crosswind was only to
qualify my reply to the original poster. Making the final determination
on whether or not to tackle a crosswind has to be based on what is
happening to the plane on final and how much the controls are being
cranked in order to persuade the aircraft to do what we want.
And that comes from getting out there and bouncing around on windy days. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 Classic with small rudder and well-scuffed tires)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
Digest": 20.Msgs.-.12/23/04(at)matronics.com
Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
A couple of us RV-10 builders did the research on this a while back,
Spruce has it because I requested they start selling it, and they bought
some before they realized it's hazardous. They've only got that 60lb
pail in stock and they'll only sell it complete, they won't divide it
up. (too hazardous, they decided they didn't want to be in the
repackaging business for something like that.)
You can try www.eldoradochem.com for powdered alodine. They call it
Dorado Kote. Website doesn't have a ton of info, but they respond
quickly to email, and they take credit cards. I bought from them and
the stuff works great.
Dorado Kote 1 (DK-1)
5lb pail = $87.52
10lb pail = $149.08
PJ
RV-10
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
>True enough, especially if you need 100+ gallons. Or if you have enough
>friends that you can share it out, which really helps the expense. However,
>for those of us unfortunate enough to live in the 'boonies', it makes more
>sense to buy the liquid. Yes, the material cost is higher but the bottom
>line is lower. By the way, when I 'did the math', I used the actual price,
>which is $15-16 per gallon liquid vs. $858 for 60 lbs powder (Aircraft
>Spruce's only listed quantity for powder.) Fortunately for Ron, there is
>someone fairly nearby that can help him out.
>
>Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Muddling through without a builder's group, etc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
> RV-List Digest : chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Liquid versus powdered Alodine or Iridite was RV-List: Re:
>RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>--> RV-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/23/04
>
>Pat,
> At $1.66 per gallon for powder versus $20 to $27 per gallon liquid, there
>is NO good deal on liquid Alodine or Iridite. Do the math. Even buying 10
>pounds (minumum purchase quantity for powder. Enough to make 100
>- 130 gallons) of Iridite 14-2 at $166 is a better deal than buying 4-5
>gallons of liquid at the prices above.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Empennage Kit Received: Now to start another primer battle... |
| From: | alan(at)reichertech.com |
My -8 tail kit arrived today. I started wandering through the archive
looking for the latest thoughts on priming parts. It appears that
Sherwin-Williams GBP 988 may be a good option.
Without intending to start the primer wars, what other options are out
there? I'd prefer single part applications vice two-part mixes, but am
open to suggestion. For the climate question, I'm located in Northern
Virginia (JYO).
- Alan
RV-8 Empennage still in the box...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Empennage Kit Received: Now to start another primer battle... |
I started with the GBP988 and have been using the DuPont VariPrime (2 part, but
1 to 1 mix that is very easy to use). The 988 is ok for short quick fixes, but
only in areas where there is not going to be any abrasion of surfaces, i.e.
inspection panels because it scratches off very easily even after several days
of drying. The VariPrime seems to be much stronger and actually is easier to
apply...I follow the Orndorffs lead by just cleaning with laquer thinner then
shooting the self etching primer...flashes in about 10 minutes.
BTW, I am in Gainesville, VA and you can get VariPrime at Mattos Auto finishes
in Manassas off Rt. 28. Don't be shocked by the price, it runs about $65 for
2 quarts worth of paint. It has gotten me through the empennage though...just
about!
Will
#91056
http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Price Increase - Answers from Van's |
Well, the wings are on order!!!!
The other news here is that according to Van's sales dept., if you
give them your credit card information, circle "yes" on the final
payment portion AND WRITE IN THAT YOU WISH TO BE CHARGED TO TOTAL
AMOUNT PRIOR TO DEC 31ST, you will lock in the current rates and
everything will be fine.
Also, there are NO changes to the kit...at least the RV9 Wings kit,
for 2005 and the difference is purely due to cost of aluminum.
Thanks for all the responses and help, looking forward to moving on
to my new wings!!! :)
Will #91056
http://home.comcast.net/~wcouv/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
A few comments from back here in the cheap seats...
With all due respect, as a cfi and moderately experienced tailwheel pilot
I'd really, really recommend against ever setting a light plane down witout
the wheels aligned with the runway and the plane tracking down the runway.
Only exception would be a where you're in a very bad predicament (i.e., near
emergency situation). Even those operating a plane with the tailwheel on
the nose (trike) can groundloop or tear the gear out of the plane. Not to
mention the tire wear. If you can't get it aligned, go somewhere else. Of
course this doesn't always apply to large, transport types.
Always take out the drift. While flying my -8, I've probably done a 20-22
kt crosswind component 3 - 5 times. Wasn't fun, but was very managable.
Never felt like I was anywhere close to dragging a wingtip.
Just felt compelled to chime in here. I'm not an armchair rv'er. Got about
50-60 hrs in trike rv's and 750 or so in conventional gear rv's. they are
some of the most honest planes I've flown, but I'd strongly advise against
ever landing misaligned.
just my 2 cent, meant only to help.
Bryan Jones
-8, cfi
Houston
>indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and stay in
>neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would venture
>that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from about a
>40d
>crab to nearly sideways befor I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in Tweety
>bird now, glad it didnt happen early on. Since we dont have a max
>demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of the
>more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind for
>our
>planes. Charlie heathco
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Sam's right....
I have landed my -6 in lot's of wind, some more than I would care to do
again. I have an archived post somewhere around here from a trip to South
Dakota (VERY windy) which was the worst I've done. I try not to be scared
of wind, because you never know when you'll find it. On the aformentioned
trip to SoDak, the winds were forecast to only be about 10-15kts, but when I
arrived they were well over 25kts.
That being said, you SHOULD be comfortable in some windy conditions or don't
fly Cross Country. I have a scrape on the bottom of one wingtip from a
particularly windy xwind landing (I'm not proud of that by the way), but
proof in point that sometimes you run into wind you didn't think would be
there.
The most important thing Sam points out is to have that hand ON THE THROTTLE
ready to "try again". Personally, I have no problem going around and trying
things again, and in bad winds I've taken 3 or more tries to get the thing
on the ground comfortably. If things don't feel right or I can't keep it
where I want, I hit the throttle and do it again. These RV's will LEAP into
the air quickly, so with a few exceptions there is really no excuse for
looping these things. I guess the whole point is DON'T try to force these
type of things, if anything starts feeling wrong/squirrly/sideways, then for
God sakes, get airborne and try it again!
I have the small "old" rudder, and can easily run out of travel at about
20kts. Over that and I'm working pretty hard. My new RV6 has the large RV9
rudder on it and handles the winds like a dream compared to the old small
tail. Now that doesn't mean I go hunting out bad winds, because landing is
only part of the problem. You have to be able to taxi to where your going
when after your down. Some of us keep our planes at airports with no cross
runway and not even into the prevailing wind, so we get used to crosswinds
almost all the time. Add that to having trees at one end, and buildings
along part of the runway and you never know what the wind is actually doing
on the ground.
In the end, I see some of the 6A drivers that fly on days I just prefer not
to (I hate having a sore leg after holding that rudder all the way over
after a couple of approaches), but for the most part both the nose wheels
and t/d's handle most "normal" winds quite well.
As said before, you have to be comfortable with yourself and don't try to do
things just because someone else does/can. I'm no super pilot and prefer
not to fly in bad winds, clouds, rain, snow, etc... so take my advice (or
lack of) for what it's worth.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind
I make no claims at being a particularly skilled pilot and I have
certainly enjoyed my share of "luck". No doubt several hundred hours
spent landing very light aircraft and a J-3 in gusty conditions have
instilled a bit more confidence in crosswinds than was present when I
was truly a novice taildragger pilot.
I'm not sure how we can find our "personal limits" without cautiously
expanding our skills. My crosswind landings are conducted with one hand
firmly on the throttle and the mindset that if anything gets out of
hand, the throttle hand goes forward and I'm outa there (and I've done
that a few times).
My reference to the AWOS-reported 19 gusting 26 crosswind was only to
qualify my reply to the original poster. Making the final determination
on whether or not to tackle a crosswind has to be based on what is
happening to the plane on final and how much the controls are being
cranked in order to persuade the aircraft to do what we want.
And that comes from getting out there and bouncing around on windy days. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 Classic with small rudder and well-scuffed tires)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind Limits |
>I'm an RV FNG (0.0 hours) but have a lot of military jet time. The
>crosswind limits on the A-4 with spoilers deployed were 25 kts
>symmetrical and 15 kts assymetrical. Those upper limits were a handful
>in landing a 13,000 lb. tricycle gear delta wing jet. Do most RV pilots
>have a 20+ kt crosswind limit? I would have guessed the number was less
>- maybe 15 - 20 kts.
On the typical day, I think your numbers are reasonable. I've done more out
of a gras strip. IMO, the critical issue with an RV versus a jet is the
gusts. Smooth crosswinds are cake. The gusts are the monster. Check out
the lay of the airport before committing - hangers, trees, building upwind
of the runway.
Although I've flown -4, -6A, -9A I don't have a feel for the rudder
effectiveness in extreme crosswind landing situations. I've never run out
of rudder with the -8 and have done 20-22 kt crosswind component in a couple
of instances.
Bryan Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind Limits |
Paul:
I use 20 Kts as my crosswind limit.
I have landed with 22 Kts and gusts of 38 Kt at 80 degrees at Staint George,
UT. Damaged the wheel pants but not the airplane when the airplane got
going sideways.
Another time, I did a go around and landed elsewhere with a 15 Kt 90 degree
crosswinds at Huntsville, AL.
Airplane was at heavy both times and had a passagner.
Both times I was low on fuel. Low on fuel as in having less than 1.5 hours
to dry tanks. (apx 10 gallons usable)
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: Crosswind Limits
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:39:21 -0500
I'm an RV FNG (0.0 hours) but have a lot of military jet time. The
crosswind limits on the A-4 with spoilers deployed were 25 kts
symmetrical and 15 kts assymetrical. Those upper limits were a handful
in landing a 13,000 lb. tricycle gear delta wing jet. Do most RV pilots
have a 20+ kt crosswind limit? I would have guessed the number was less
- maybe 15 - 20 kts.
Paul Valovich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empennage Kit Received: Now to start another primer battle... |
> My -8 tail kit arrived today. I started wandering through the archive
> looking for the latest thoughts on priming parts. It appears that
> Sherwin-Williams GBP 988 may be a good option.
>
> Without intending to start the primer wars, what other options are out
> there? I'd prefer single part applications vice two-part mixes, but am
> open to suggestion. For the climate question, I'm located in Northern
> Virginia (JYO).
On my first RV I used the SW products including the GBP 988. On my current
project I'm using SEM and like it much better. Info can be found here...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Airframe/airframe.htm#Primer
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts? |
Just my 2 cents worth re these nuts. My Cherokee carb heat muff on exaust
pipes were installed with plastic/nylon lock nuts. I replaced them with
metal lock nuts when I did a rebuild, but the plastic ones were in good
working order. Away from pipes is perfectly ok I think, charlie heatjhco
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
>
> I just dug out my obviously seldomed used Standard Aircraft Handbook for
> mechanics and technicians. Pg. 143 says a high temp self locking nut
> should be use for areas ABOVE 250 degrees F. The nylon or fiber insert
> lock nuts are for applications below 250.
>
> So what's the temp of and around the engine mount where I want to clamp
> wires to the mount? I'll bet it's below 250 unless there's a damn fire
> going on up there.
>
> As for Van's kits, there are no references to AN363 in the on-line bag
> contents files other than in the finish kit and those 2 are being
> referenced as being replaced by a DIFFERENT nut alltogether!
>
> BAG 914-3 GEAR LEG HARDWARE
> 2.000 NUT 1/4-20 SELF LOCK REPLACES: AN363-420 0.10
>
> There are 4 MS21042 nuts in the fuse kit. Two -3 in bag 852 and two -4 in
> bag 887. Not going to cut it.
>
> Oh well, annoying but not unexpected. Hopefully a local car shop sells
> something similar if I decide to go the all metal way today...
>
> Lucky
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>>
>>
>> Any lock nut forward of the firewall (under the cowl) should be an all
>> steel
>> lock nut. There are some in the hardware in the kit, or you can order
>> more from
>> suppliers.
>>
>> Roberta
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net
>> To: RV-List ; RV yahoo
>> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:59 PM
>> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel
>> clamps
>> FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
>>
>> I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used
>> different
>> style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon
>> inserts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> lucky
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Online help on this group at:
>> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get unlimited calls to
>>
>> U.S./Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>>
>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>>
>> Online help on this group at:
>> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>>
>>
>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>>
>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>>
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I just dug out my obviously seldomed used Standard Aircraft Handbook for
> mechanics and technicians. Pg. 143 says a high temp self locking nut
> should be use for areas ABOVE 250 degrees F. The nylon or fiber insert
> lock nuts are for applications below 250.
>
> So what's the temp of and around the engine mount where I want to clamp
> wires to the mount? I'll bet it's below 250 unless there's a damn fire
> going on up there.
>
> As for Van's kits, there are no references to AN363 in the on-line bag
> contents files other than in the finish kit and those 2 are being
> referenced as being replaced by a DIFFERENT nut alltogether!
>
> BAG 914-3 GEAR LEG HARDWARE
> 2.000 NUT 1/4-20 SELF LOCK REPLACES: AN363-420 0.10
>
> There are 4 MS21042 nuts in the fuse kit. Two -3 in bag 852 and two -4 in
> bag 887. Not going to cut it.
>
> Oh well, annoying but not unexpected. Hopefully a local car shop sells
> something similar if I decide to go the all metal way today...
>
> Lucky
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> Any lock nut forward of the firewall (under the cowl) should be an all
> steel
> lock nut. There are some in the hardware in the kit, or you can order more
> from
> suppliers.
>
> Roberta
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net
> To: RV-List ; RV yahoo
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:59 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
>
>
> Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps
> FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
>
> I notice in a couple of kits I got for FWF related stuff they used
> different
> style nuts but one thing they all did NOT have in common was nylon
> inserts.
>
> Thanks,
> lucky
>
> [N
> on-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> U.S./Canada
>
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Sponsor --------------------~--
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
> Congratulations to all those who handled 25kt gusts and made it. For any
of
> us wanting to up the bar of cross wind/gust records, remember that luck
> could be a factor. Maybe those succeeding only got a 24kt gust during
their
> 15 seconds of critical time, maybe 23, maybe 20 -- who's to say what
> actually touched their plane? We only know what the gusts were at the
wind
> sensoring equipment. Gusts are not consistent across all parts of the
> airport. I am not saying those are not skilled FLYERS. Skill certainly
has
> a lot to do with it, but it does not hurt to be lucky -- that is what I am
> saying. What if a gust not earlier predicted/seen, say 30kt occurred at
> just the wrong moment/place when expecting 25kts? -- one day you WILL find
> your personal limit if you keep looking for it....and then what.........
> You still will not know for sure what it is. Being a skilled PILOT might
be
> something to admire just as well -- respecting when not to fly *or* to
land
> some other airport with a runway more agreeable with the winds.
>
> Advice from this novice tailwheeler: Keep expanding your maximum
> crosswind/gust component and one day you WILL find it....and then
> what......... Higher insurance rates!! My plan: I will seek not to
> expand/find my limit.
After years of reading posts on this subject on this list, and extrapolating
what I felt I could handle in my RV-8 based on successful landings in 10-15
kt crosswinds, I figured my personal limit would be 20 kts also. So one day
with ASOS indicating a 16 kt crosswind at exactly 90 degree to the runway I
landed. Even though the ASOS did not indicate gusts on the broadcast just
prior to landing I could tell from the nearby water that it was gusting.
Made it down nicely using all the standard techniques, but got nailed by a
much stronger gust AFTER most of my forward speed had decayed, was moving
forward at only 25-30 mph. A fair amount of damage resulted, details at
http://www.rv-8.com/Flying.htm#The%20final%20chapter. Quite a helpless
feeling... too slow for rudder to be effective, it hit too fast to use the
throttle, and I was probably too slow to deploy differential braking. Not
sure if that would have helped though because the gust skidded my
still-locked tailwheel across the wet pavement quite rapidly. Yes, I've been
lucky before too, but not that day.
Anyway, my point is that I agree with the above comments, there are LOTS of
variables and we should allow some margin for them. I haven't decided what
my NEW personal xwind limit will be with the RV-3B I'm building, I'll need
to get a feel for it first in some 10-15 kt winds first, but it will likely
be lower than before just because of the "unexpected" factor.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue |
rv-list(at)matronics.com, aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the
second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine) and
the
radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with
static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could barely hear
him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come
in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once again.
So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and
once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
static (only when receiving transmissions).
The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed
electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and it did
not
seem to make a difference.
I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue.
Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first
flight. Thanks in advance!
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <turboz(at)cox.net> |
Has anyone ordered tools from planetools.com? I would like to hear about any good
or bad experiences you may have had. If not appropriate for the list you are
welcome to contact me directly.
Thanks
Eric
Phoenix, Az
RV-7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue |
On Dec 27, 2004, at 4:54 PM, N223RV(at)aol.com wrote:
> t over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
> static (only when receiving transmissions).
>
> The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
> Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a
> Lightspeed
> electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air
> and it did not
> seem to make a difference.
>
> I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the
> issue.
>
>
My first guess would be something breaking squelch on the intercom. I
have had the symptoms you describe in a four place airplane, caused by
a back seat headset leaning on the cabin wall and the vibrations
breaking the squelch. If everything works OK on the ground, and you
have no other headsets plugged in, try reducing the mic gain if
possible. At least one of my headsets has a tiny pot on it for this
very reason, although I haven't used it (or checked) on the others.
James Freeman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
On 27-Dec-04, at 5:05 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>> Congratulations to all those who handled 25kt gusts and made it. For
>> any
> of
>> us wanting to up the bar of cross wind/gust records, remember that
>> luck
>> could be a factor. Maybe those succeeding only got a 24kt gust during
> their
>> 15 seconds of critical time, maybe 23, maybe 20 -- who's to say what
>> actually touched their plane? We only know what the gusts were at the
> wind
>> sensoring equipment. Gusts are not consistent across all parts of the
>> airport. I am not saying those are not skilled FLYERS. Skill
>> certainly
> has
>> a lot to do with it, but it does not hurt to be lucky -- that is what
>> I am
>> saying. What if a gust not earlier predicted/seen, say 30kt occurred
>> at
>> just the wrong moment/place when expecting 25kts? -- one day you WILL
>> find
>> your personal limit if you keep looking for it....and then
>> what.........
>> You still will not know for sure what it is. Being a skilled PILOT
>> might
> be
>> something to admire just as well -- respecting when not to fly *or* to
> land
>> some other airport with a runway more agreeable with the winds.
>>
>> Advice from this novice tailwheeler: Keep expanding your maximum
>> crosswind/gust component and one day you WILL find it....and then
>> what......... Higher insurance rates!! My plan: I will seek not to
>> expand/find my limit.
>
>
> After years of reading posts on this subject on this list, and
> extrapolating
> what I felt I could handle in my RV-8 based on successful landings in
> 10-15
> kt crosswinds, I figured my personal limit would be 20 kts also. So
> one day
> with ASOS indicating a 16 kt crosswind at exactly 90 degree to the
> runway I
> landed. Even though the ASOS did not indicate gusts on the broadcast
> just
> prior to landing I could tell from the nearby water that it was
> gusting.
> Made it down nicely using all the standard techniques, but got nailed
> by a
> much stronger gust AFTER most of my forward speed had decayed, was
> moving
> forward at only 25-30 mph. A fair amount of damage resulted, details at
> http://www.rv-8.com/Flying.htm#The%20final%20chapter. Quite a helpless
> feeling... too slow for rudder to be effective, it hit too fast to use
> the
> throttle, and I was probably too slow to deploy differential braking.
> Not
> sure if that would have helped though because the gust skidded my
> still-locked tailwheel across the wet pavement quite rapidly. Yes,
> I've been
> lucky before too, but not that day.
>
> Anyway, my point is that I agree with the above comments, there are
> LOTS of
> variables and we should allow some margin for them. I haven't decided
> what
> my NEW personal xwind limit will be with the RV-3B I'm building, I'll
> need
> to get a feel for it first in some 10-15 kt winds first, but it will
> likely
> be lower than before just because of the "unexpected" factor.
>
> Randy Lervold
>
Every landing is different, and every crosswind is different. The fact
that the runway was wet was quite possibly a big factor too. I don't
have any real RV experience, but I've got lots of crosswinds experience
on other, larger, aircraft. Landing in a big crosswind is a lot
different on a dry runway than it is on a damp or slippery runway. Not
necessarily harder on a slippery runway, but definitely different, as
the aircraft may slide around, so you have a different set of issues to
deal with.
So, if you've expanded the crosswind envelope to XX kt on a dry runway,
then don't just assume that you can handle the same crosswind on a wet
runway. You need to start the envelope expansion all over again on the
slippery runway. Night is harder too, due to the poorer visual cues.
And aft CG is different than forward CG.
Be careful out there,
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.A.S" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com> |
Hi All,
the hobbsmeter on the Vans website has passed the 4000 mark !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind
RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco"
Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report
330-16, G-23, landing 25. very turbulent. Had to touch down long at better
than
90mp indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and
stay in neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I would
venture that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from
about
a 40d crab to nearly sideways before I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in
Tweety bird now, glad it didn't happen early on. Since we don't have a max
demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of
the more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind
for our planes. Charlie heathco
=============================
Hi Charlie
Congratulations on making it, the max demonstrated crosswind limit in
certified aircraft must be achievable by an average pilot using normal
piloting techniques and not take an exceptionally talented pilot. Therefore
I believe that you have indeed not only reached, but considerably exceeded
what would be considered a normal "max demonstrated crosswind limit".
If I remember correctly all certified aircraft must have the capability of
handling a crosswind up to 20% of their stall speed, about 11 - 12 knots in
the case of my RV-6A and that limit may be increased to a demonstrated
limit.
Two items in your post caught my attention and suggested to me that you were
on very thin ice;
(1) that you had the wing down as far as "you dared". When I instructed many
years ago I taught that when lined up on final if the wingtip seems to be
half way down from level to the ground contact position then the crosswind
is beyond limits, (this may not necessarily be true but is a good indicator
especially if the runway is contaminated).
(2) that you touched down at "better than 90 mph" would have put you in
great danger of a wheelbarrow type loss of control, with all the weight
supported by nose wheel, wings and tail plane leaves very little weight and
traction on the main wheels.
(I have seen a DC-6B supported by the nose wheel wings & tail until the
props went into reverse).
So congratulations again and I suggest you lower your X-wind limits.
George in Langley BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue |
Had a somewhat similar problem on the first flight, as the speed and air
noise built up it exceeded the squelch level for the radio/intercom, I was
hearing recycled background noise and could not hear the tower until I
slowed down to about 100 mph.
George in Langley
I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the
second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine)
and the
radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with
static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could
barely hear
him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to come
in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once
again.
So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again and
once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
static (only when receiving transmissions).
The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed
electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and it
did not
seem to make a difference.
I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue.
Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first
flight. Thanks in advance!
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue |
I noticed the same problem when descending at high speed. I installed a
larger sponge thing over the mic input and that has lessened the problem.
Tom Barnes -6
----- Original Message -----
From: <N223RV(at)aol.com>
; ;
Subject: RV-List: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue
>
> I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the
> second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine)
and the
> radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with
> static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could
barely hear
> him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to
come
> in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once
again.
> So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again
and
> once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
> static (only when receiving transmissions).
>
> The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
> Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed
> electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and
it did not
> seem to make a difference.
>
> I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first
> flight. Thanks in advance!
>
> -Mike Kraus
> N223RV RV-4 Flying
> N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Nutplate question |
Listers
Does anyone make nutplates from a non magnetic material for use on the
instrument panel? If so, who and how does the part number differ from
standard units?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nutplate question |
I've bought stainless steel nutplates from my local supplier here in Dallas
for installing my remote compass sensor driving my HSI.
The part number has a 'C' in it IIRC. I've gotten them in all of the usual
flavors......
I'll try to remember to dig up the specifics.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Nutplate question
>
> Listers
> Does anyone make nutplates from a non magnetic material for use on the
> instrument panel? If so, who and how does the part number differ from
> standard units?
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
Frank,
It used to be, and perhaps still is, that if you call Garmin avionics
technical support, you can request that they email you the install manual
for the 430. Several years ago, one could directly download it from Garmin.
Lawyers won that one I guess. If you can't get one from Garmin, I'm sure
someone on the list can email it to you.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 561 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
> guys,trying to finish up some wiring on the 430 gps by
> garmin,in moving stuff around some of the tags on the wiring
> has been pulled of,i need to know the pin on the plugs for
> the power,any one has a install diagram for this or where i
> can locate one?,checked garmin site, no luck,also what the
> 430,the garmin inter com and the transponder are fused at,
> thats not on the site either,any help would be appriciated
> frank goggio fayetteville nc rv6a fgoggio(at)nc.rr.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGordonGWH(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV9A empennage for sale |
After finishing the empennage of a RV9A, I have realized that the finished
aircraft cost is going to be too high for me. While the RV9A will always be
my dream aircraft, I have decided to go in a different direction and build a
Corvair powered Zenith 601XL. So I now have a completed empenagge "For Sale."
It is complete including the fiberglass work and has the electric trim
option. All interior surfaces were etched, alodined and sprayed with zinc
chromate. I have a written log with pictures and a copy of the EAA tech report
on
the work before I closed the Horizontal Stab. I am in Cincinnati, Ohio. If
anyone is interested please contact me at: _sgordongwh(at)aol.com_
(mailto:sgordongwh(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Hope this helps:
http://www.rvproject.com/2004_mexico_trip_log.html
I put together a pretty comprehensive trip report. It goes into the whole
process of planning, insurance, etc. I even posted a complete list of fees
(fuel was only $2.51/gal) and all costs I encountered. I'm still working on
captions for the photos on the trip home, but the basic info is all there.
I sweated over lots of details, specifically insurance. In the end the trip
was really easy, totally uneventful. Going forward it's gonna be SO much
easier -- especially now that BBP is offering Mexican insurance for
experimentals. They didn't offer that until literally the afternoon before
I left (bastards). I had to dig for insurance elsewhere.
Hopefully this trip log will help other people by making the planning
process easier.
I have every intention of flying back down to several spots in Mexico in
2005.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue |
Well, I had simular experience, turned out to be the nav side of Kx-125 had
crapped out and vol control was up. Took a lot of messing around before I
acidentally discovered the problem. May not be your sit tho. Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: <N223RV(at)aol.com>
; ;
Subject: RV-List: Radio/Intercom interference with engine issue
>
> I have an interesting issue. I am flying my friends RV-7, this is the
> second flight. I had the throttle basically full (breaking in the engine)
> and the
> radio progressively seemed to get worse (over a 515 minute period) with
> static when receiving transmissions from ATC. It got so bad, I could
> barely hear
> him. He said he had no issues hearing me. I told him I was going to
> come
> in for a full stop, pulled back the throttle, and could hear fine once
> again.
> So I called the controller and told him I was going to go around again
> and
> once I gave it over about 75% power, the radio once again had a bunch of
> static (only when receiving transmissions).
>
> The plane has a PS Engineering PM1000 intercom, Garmin 430 radio, and a
> Headsets Inc ANR in a Dave Clark 13.4 headset. It also has a Lightspeed
> electronic ignition on the right mag. I did a mag check in the air and
> it did not
> seem to make a difference.
>
> I pulled and reseated the headset plugs and that did not fix the issue.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas what to check? We had no issues on the first
> flight. Thanks in advance!
>
> -Mike Kraus
> N223RV RV-4 Flying
> N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
There is a difference between "landing an airplane in a crosswind," and
"transitioning from flying to taxiing without damaging the equipment."
For instance, I have limited experience in the Pitts. I do not believe I
have ever landed a Pitts. When I have "transistioned from flying to
taxiing" in the Pitts, no one would call it a landing, "crash and recover"
would be a more accurate assesment.
The RVs are excellent crosswind airplanes, and my limited experience in the
trikes would lead me to believe they have no better, maybe poorer crosswind
capability than the T/W airplanes.
I caution against setting some number because if the wind is "reported" to
be less than that, the "it is below my limit so I must land" mentality gets
involved. Kevin Horton is right, there are way too many variables. Why put
a number on it. The biggest variable is the the pilot, and the pilot is a
moving target. Everyone has good days and bad days. The wind may gust,
mechanical turbulence from a building. CG issues. The list of variables is
long. If you want to put a hard number on it, it has to be for the worst
possible scenario, and if you include the pilot, that may be below 10 knots.
Having said that, in perfect conditions, it might approach 20 knots.
I approach crosswind landings like IFR approaches. Fly the approach
procedure and fly the missed approach procedure is the primary objective.
If you happen to see the airport and land, great, but if you don't that was
the plan. With a crosswind, set up, fly the final, and as long as things
are going well keep flying. Be spring-loaded to go-around. The instant
things are not working, GO!
Using that mentality favors wheel landings, and there is a point where you
have to commit to put the tail down, but by then it should be fairly clear
if putting the tail down is possible. I have done several one wheel touch
and go's in the Twin Beech because I could not get up enough courage to
lower the tail. We have a taxi-way at MCW which locals call Rwy 24. Our
airport manager uses a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on operations like
that.
From a flight planning perspective, this is just like IFR. If you are
unwilling to fly to the point of intended landing and then fly to an
alternate, do not go at all.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Doug, has a good point, and remeber You are the Pilot in Command, when
arriving at North Las Vegas if the wind is not down a runway, it will be down the
taxi way, which used to be the old 4/22. Ask for the Taxi way, you will be told
it's at your own risk, but when is flying not? Other wise they will let you
crash as it's happend before and say " well he didn't ask for it"
Jess Meyers
Las Vegas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind |
Understand your concerne. By wing down as far as i dared, that was pretty
conservative, Im not very daring anymore, :-) touch down at 90 was actually
equivilent to about 70 under the conditions. I got my pvt in cherokees in
Okl city, 66, comml same in Md, 2375 strip over trees wind often crazy, so I
had lots of xwind exp from back then. I didnt fly again for 35 yrs untill a
little over a yr ago. For the record, I woulnt have taken off in those cond,
but it was either land or else, not wanting to leave the plane someplace and
try to get back to the car. charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind
>
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6A max demonstrated X-wind
>
> Had a wild ride coming back into LZU this afternoon. Atis report
> 330-16, G-23, landing 25. very turbulent. Had to touch down long at
> better
> than
> 90mp indicated with some crab as coulndnt take it all out with ruder and
> stay in neighborhood of middle. Had rt wing down as low as i dared. I
> would
> venture that gusts were stronger as at about 100-150' plane whipped from
> about
> a 40d crab to nearly sideways before I could counter it. I have 22 hrs in
> Tweety bird now, glad it didn't happen early on. Since we don't have a
> max
> demonstrated xwind figure as a standard I was wondering what some of
> the more experienced 6A drivers had managed or would consider max X-wind
> for our planes. Charlie heathco
>
> =============================
>
> Hi Charlie
>
> Congratulations on making it, the max demonstrated crosswind limit in
> certified aircraft must be achievable by an average pilot using normal
> piloting techniques and not take an exceptionally talented pilot.
> Therefore
> I believe that you have indeed not only reached, but considerably exceeded
> what would be considered a normal "max demonstrated crosswind limit".
>
> If I remember correctly all certified aircraft must have the capability of
> handling a crosswind up to 20% of their stall speed, about 11 - 12 knots
> in
> the case of my RV-6A and that limit may be increased to a demonstrated
> limit.
>
> Two items in your post caught my attention and suggested to me that you
> were
> on very thin ice;
>
> (1) that you had the wing down as far as "you dared". When I instructed
> many
> years ago I taught that when lined up on final if the wingtip seems to be
> half way down from level to the ground contact position then the crosswind
> is beyond limits, (this may not necessarily be true but is a good
> indicator
> especially if the runway is contaminated).
>
> (2) that you touched down at "better than 90 mph" would have put you in
> great danger of a wheelbarrow type loss of control, with all the weight
> supported by nose wheel, wings and tail plane leaves very little weight
> and
> traction on the main wheels.
> (I have seen a DC-6B supported by the nose wheel wings & tail until the
> props went into reverse).
>
> So congratulations again and I suggest you lower your X-wind limits.
>
> George in Langley BC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A empennage for sale |
In a message dated 12/28/04 10:20:56 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
SGordonGWH(at)aol.com writes:
After finishing the empennage of a RV9A, I have realized that the finished
aircraft cost is going to be too high for me. While the RV9A will always
be
my dream aircraft, I have decided to go in a different direction and build a
Corvair powered Zenith 601XL.
Mr. Gordon,
Don't be silly! Finish that airplane. It'll take you what , maybe, 2
years? Keep your eyes open for a good used Lycoming. Or stay on the list and
go
with one of the auto engines that are talked about here. Then fly it and if
you don't like it, sell it and make money on it. Just my opinion. I'm sure
the Zenith would be a good airplane too if that's the way you go.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since July)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:special FWF nuts |
What is at issue here, cost? for 3/16 nuts, nylok are .09, all metal .15.
Heck, I just like the looks of the metal ones FWF so I spent the extra $2... :)
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 12/28/2004 12:03:33 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] special FWF nuts?
>
>
>
> Are there special nuts I should be using for stuff like on the Adel clamps
> FWF? Are the nylon lock nuts taboo FWF?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Mexico |
Dan,
Thank you for your very thorough report and advice. I (experimental) and several
other "store bought" airplane drivers are heading into Baja in March and your
summary will be very helpful.
Thanks again.
Wayne Sweet
MustangII N54WS (Opps...shouldn't have admitted to being a lurker)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com ; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Mexico
Hope this helps:
http://www.rvproject.com/2004_mexico_trip_log.html
I put together a pretty comprehensive trip report. It goes into the whole
process of planning, insurance, etc. I even posted a complete list of fees
(fuel was only $2.51/gal) and all costs I encountered. I'm still working on
captions for the photos on the trip home, but the basic info is all there.
I sweated over lots of details, specifically insurance. In the end the trip
was really easy, totally uneventful. Going forward it's gonna be SO much
easier -- especially now that BBP is offering Mexican insurance for
experimentals. They didn't offer that until literally the afternoon before
I left (bastards). I had to dig for insurance elsewhere.
Hopefully this trip log will help other people by making the planning
process easier.
I have every intention of flying back down to several spots in Mexico in
2005.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
I'm one of the many who ordered their kits this week to avoid the Jan
price increase (Barbara(?) at Vans told me they received 40 quickbuild
orders Monday). Now that I'm really committed to the -8A, I've been
thinking of the prep needed for the April QB kit delivery. I like the
idea of rotating fuselage stands and want to construct them myself. I
tried the Search feature and got some ideas - including modification of
the $50 engine stands. A couple questions:
* Where would I get the engine stands to modify?
* Has anyone published plans for a rotating fuselage stand (both
using the engine stand or starting from scratch)?
Paul Valovich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
Paul,
To buy the engine stand cheaply, watch the sale sheets for your local
Discount Auto, Advance Auto, Pep Boys Auto, Auto Zone, etc. I've seen them
as cheap as $40. Harbor Freight & Northern Tools are two other good sources.
Charlie Kuss
>
>I'm one of the many who ordered their kits this week to avoid the Jan
>price increase (Barbara(?) at Vans told me they received 40 quickbuild
>orders Monday). Now that I'm really committed to the -8A, I've been
>thinking of the prep needed for the April QB kit delivery. I like the
>idea of rotating fuselage stands and want to construct them myself. I
>tried the Search feature and got some ideas - including modification of
>the $50 engine stands. A couple questions:
>
>* Where would I get the engine stands to modify?
>* Has anyone published plans for a rotating fuselage stand (both
>using the engine stand or starting from scratch)?
>
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
FWIW, in the spirit of do-it-yourself, I bought one of these kits (actually,
a group order for SoCal RVators):
http://www.electronic-kits-and-projects.com/4055.htm
I soldered it up and it passed the "truck tailpipe test" as well as
detecting different vapors (i.e. butane, acetone...not relevant but an
interesting plus). I haven't installed it in the plane yet, but soon I will
mount it over the heat manifold and hook it into the ACS2002 and one of its
"user input" circuits. That way it will give me an audio plus and on-screen
alert. The sensitivity can be tuned with a simple pot adjustment.
Hard to beat the price, customizability, and the DIY factor.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>
> Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
>
> http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
It's pretty simple. Here is mine.
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/shop/enginest.htm
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Stands
>
> I'm one of the many who ordered their kits this week to avoid the Jan
> price increase (Barbara(?) at Vans told me they received 40 quickbuild
> orders Monday). Now that I'm really committed to the -8A, I've been
> thinking of the prep needed for the April QB kit delivery. I like the
> idea of rotating fuselage stands and want to construct them myself. I
> tried the Search feature and got some ideas - including modification of
> the $50 engine stands. A couple questions:
>
> * Where would I get the engine stands to modify?
> * Has anyone published plans for a rotating fuselage stand (both
> using the engine stand or starting from scratch)?
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
Larry, I have one of these, bought it last winter. Its a little anoying with
its constant chirping. Cant turn it off so batty run down will sitting in
plane. I tried taking out the batty while not in use, but its a tight fit
and a pain, I now have it sitting idle. No way to know if it worked or not.
On the Rv, I have enuff outside air comming thru the "closed" ventsto
eleiminate any posible hazard. charlie H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>
> Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
>
> http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
=========================================================
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>* Where would I get the engine stands to modify?
>* Has anyone published plans for a rotating fuselage stand (both
>using the engine stand or starting from scratch)?
>
>
>
>
I liked the idea of the engine stand but I want to be able to do more
than you can with the engine stand. I want to have the height
adjustable as well as rotate the fuselage. I don't like the idea of
having the tail unsupported while rotating the thing around or raising
it up and down so my idea includes 2 stands that are basically the same
thing, one at each end. I have a few screen captures of my very early
design here http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/aviation/stands/
If you like the concept and would really like to build a set I will be
happy to finish up the model and make drawings. Any input on the design
would also be welcome. My plan is to have it so you can build it using
only a cut off saw, drill press, welder and grinder.
Chris W
gifts they want for any event
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Lundin <rlundin46(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
Jeff Bordelan makes a fuselage stand with the
attributes you talk about. Don't remember the price
but it seemed pretty resonable. His email is
RV-7A(at)Austin.RR.com
Rick
--- "Valovich, Paul" wrote:
>
>
> I'm one of the many who ordered their kits this week
> to avoid the Jan
> price increase (Barbara(?) at Vans told me they
> received 40 quickbuild
> orders Monday). Now that I'm really committed to the
> -8A, I've been
> thinking of the prep needed for the April QB kit
> delivery. I like the
> idea of rotating fuselage stands and want to
> construct them myself. I
> tried the Search feature and got some ideas -
> including modification of
> the $50 engine stands. A couple questions:
>
> * Where would I get the engine stands to
> modify?
> * Has anyone published plans for a rotating
> fuselage stand (both
> using the engine stand or starting from scratch)?
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | W-728 reinforcing strips |
W-728 reinforcing strips on the wing tips.
Should these be made from the wing trim bundle? it would appear that
they need to be cut in half longways and that would leave one trim bundle
piece left over for ?
Would hate to guess wrong.
Thanks
RV-4
RV-8 QB ....wing
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
My Home Page
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
The stand looks interesting. Have you actually built this thing yet? I do
like the height adjustment abilities ect. Please do finish off the model
and let us know when you're done
Looks intere
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage Stands
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:00:10 -0600
<1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>* Where would I get the engine stands to modify? * Has anyone
>published plans for a rotating fuselage stand (both using the engine stand
>or starting from scratch)?
>
>
I liked the idea of the engine stand but I want to be able to do more
than you can with the engine stand. I want to have the height
adjustable as well as rotate the fuselage. I don't like the idea of
having the tail unsupported while rotating the thing around or raising
it up and down so my idea includes 2 stands that are basically the same
thing, one at each end. I have a few screen captures of my very early
design here http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/aviation/stands/
If you like the concept and would really like to build a set I will be
happy to finish up the model and make drawings. Any input on the design
would also be welcome. My plan is to have it so you can build it using
only a cut off saw, drill press, welder and grinder.
Chris W
gifts they want for any event
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
Listers,
I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the right mid cabin
cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards using one of the
rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two rectangular
units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094 appears
to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1868~subid=2742/index.html
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1875~subid=2743/index.html
Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any advantage to
purchasing the more expensive units?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Black" <black(at)usa.sh> |
| Subject: | Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
I had a different meter and replaced it in -6. The original (I can't
remember the brand, but I think it came from Aircraft Spruce) failed after
110 hours. It was replaced, but I am now using the real "Hobbs" meter.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: RV-List: Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted
Listers,
I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the right mid cabin
cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards using one of the
rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two rectangular
units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094 appears
to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1868~subid=2742/
index.html
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1875~subid=2743/
index.html
Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any advantage to
purchasing the more expensive units?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
I have looked at several models of meters and concluded that the original
rectangular hobbs meter (the Hobbs brand name) is better quality than many
of the substitutes. It's a very small package with reasonably large
numbers, but it finish and construction of it looks better to me. It is
marginally more expensive than the ISSPRO and some others, but only by a few
bucks. The model 15000 is what I'm putting in my panel.
Only partially informed, but loaded with opinions,
Kathleen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: RV-List: Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted
Listers,
I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the right mid cabin
cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards using one of the
rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two rectangular
units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094 appears
to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1868~subid=2742/
index.html
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1875~subid=2743/
index.html
Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any advantage to
purchasing the more expensive units?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
Small rectangular Hobbs brand has worked for me for about 690 hrs. Located
in right main sub panel.
Bryan Jones
Houston
>Listers,
> I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the right mid cabin
>cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards using one of the
>rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two rectangular
>units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
>
>Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094 appears
>to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
>
>http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1868~subid=2742/
>index.html
>
>http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1875~subid=2743/
>index.html
>
>Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any advantage to
>purchasing the more expensive units?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Stands |
Kevin Williams wrote:
>
>The stand looks interesting. Have you actually built this thing yet? I do
>like the height adjustment abilities ect. Please do finish off the model
>and let us know when you're done
>
>
>
I haven't built one yet because I don't need one yet. I have done some
work to finish up and unless someone has some better ideas or wants
something changed I will make the detail drawings in the next few days
and post them in a pdf file on the site. I have updated all the images
at http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/aviation/stands/ there is one thing I'm
not sure how much I like. If you look at the close up and cut away
images you will see my solution to stop the red tube from slipping out
of the blue tube if the clamp on the blue tube isn't tight enough. The
only problem I see with this is if you do actually rotate the fuselage
enough times in the right direction you could unscrew the eye bolt
holding it in, or you could screw it in all the way and snap the eye off
the eye bolt. I don't think that will really be a problem since it
would take 15 or more complete rotations in the same direction. The
only other idea I have for a safety to stop the red tube from
inadvertently falling out of the blue, requires some machining and I
don't want to do that if I don't have to. In case it's not obvious from
my model the red tube has a washer weld in the end for a cap and nut
welded on the washer to hold the eye bolt. The long hex bolt is a
coupler nut that is welded on and then cut in half with the top edge of
the blue tube. Then one half of the coupler nut has the threads drilled
out so a bolt can be used to clamp the blue tube to the red tube.
The hand winch is probably over kill on the tail end but I didn't feel
like making 2 models when that was the only difference. If you are
strong enough or have a buddy or 2 handy the wench on the firewall end
is probably not necessary either. The idea is to have a cable attached
to the top bolt on the green bracket and then up over the pulley on the
top and down to the winch. The winch will just be used to get the
fuselage to the hight you want and the bolt or pin through the green
bracket and the vertical tube will hold it up. You may have noticed the
4 holes in the green bracket are a different spacing (3/4 inch) than the
holes in the yellow tube (1 inch). The reason for that is to allow
height adjustments in 1/4 inch increments, move it up 1/4 inch and put
the bolt or pin in the holes that line up.
I didn't do any detail on how to attach the red plate to the plane
because that will be different for tandem and side by side
configurations and the tail stand will probably be different on the tail
wheel vs nose wheel planes. In either case, a simple frame out of
square tubing to attach to the fire wall can easily be bolted or welded
to the red plate for the fire wall and some holes in the right size
plate should work for the tail stand. .
Chris W
gifts they want for any event
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Cool alternative. How are you able to calibrate it? IE, how do you know
that the sensitivity is tuned to xx PPM?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> In a message dated 12/28/04 8:11:38 PM US Eastern Standard
> Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
>
> I soldered it up and it passed the "truck tailpipe test" as
> well as detecting different vapors (i.e. butane,
> acetone...not relevant but an interesting plus). I haven't
> installed it in the plane yet, but soon I will mount it over
> the heat manifold and hook it into the ACS2002 and one of its
> "user input" circuits. That way it will give me an audio
> plus and on-screen alert. The sensitivity can be tuned with
> a simple pot adjustment.
>
> Hard to beat the price, customizability, and the DIY factor.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
I don't have a hobbs. I only used the hourmeter in the EIS engine monitor.
Just another alternative.......
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> >Listers,
> > I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the
> right mid cabin
> >cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards
> using one of
> >the rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two
> >rectangular units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
> >
> >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
> >
> >Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094
> >appears to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
> >
> >http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1
> 868~subid> >2742/
> >index.html
> >
> >http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1
> 875~subid> >2743/
> >index.html
> >
> >Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any
> >advantage to purchasing the more expensive units?
>
>
> ========
> Matronics Forums.
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
I installed a CO Guardian in my panel - fits in a small standard hole with a
fitting kit:
http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
These guys are distributors.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>
> Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
>
> http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A empennage for sale |
>> After finishing the empennage of a RV9A,....Snip.....the aircraft cost is
going to be too high for me. While the RV9A will always be my
dream.....Snip....I have decided....Snip....a Corvair powered Zenith 601XL.
<<
Personally, I think that you will be disappointed. I am 95% complete
building the RV-9A (prepping for paint). Being newly retired, cost was an
issue (building cost plus operating and maintenance cost). I have looked at
all of the options including Zenith, Murphy, Kitfox, etc. The answers all
pointed to the RV-9A. When you buy the kit it locks you in for the life of
that airplane. The airframe/kit is the most important decision - and leaves
you well-defined upgrade choices for the future.
For example; Vans kits are very inclusive, with almost all parts included.
The RV-9A comes with a complete, anodised spar! All fixtures, rivets , most
fairings, etc., etc. Most alternatives have many upgrades that are not
really an option. It gets expensive. Also, the plane will be an asset not
unlike your house. You can always sell a completed RV at a premium. They
dominate the market. Try to sell anything else. Check E-Bay,
Trade-A-Plane, etc.
You can save money building if necessary. For example. I am using the
O-235 engine with a much better fuel burn. Figure 1,000 hours @ cost of
fuel per hour. Big money. Buy a near runout Lycoming. It is cheap and will
give you 5 or 10 years to get that promotion. I have an Ed Sterba prop
($575) - Van designs around wood. Buy the pre-punched panel and order the
Vans steam gages with limited avionics for really fun VFR. Upgrade as you
get the money.
Fly the plane for a few years "unpainted". Buy the template for the
registration marks, then buy one quart of paint in your accent colour and
personally paint the wing tips, letters, stripes - - and just polish the
other aluminum for a few years. Soon you will be richer and will be able to
upgrade your plane to dream status. Aluminum airplanes Really Rock
unpainted - especially the military look. Compare to the opposition -
painted or otherwise. Any RV with a spinning prop will always turn heads
until it has taken off or shut down, period.
Those first few years will the best flying of your life (all enhancements
will degrade you in the future - more weight and complexity). By the way,
the RV List and others are a tremendous resource far better than any other
supplier - - did someone say that the Vans meter just tripped 4,000 ? ? ?
Good luck on your decision - whether you build an RV, wait until you can
build an RV, or you build something else. Research it well. It's a big
decision.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Looks nice, but pricey. I didn't see where it said how long they last. Do
you know? Most others I've been looking at are no good after five years.
I like their remote enunciator light. Push to test, twist to dim LED.
Nice. Anyone know where else to get those? Digikey?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralph E. Capen [mailto:recapen(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:02 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: CO Detector
>
>
>
> I installed a CO Guardian in my panel - fits in a small
> standard hole with a fitting kit:
>
> http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
>
> These guys are distributors.....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>
>
> >
> > Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
> >
> > http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ========
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
I just bought a low-level Carbon Monoxide Monitor, model 2004 from
CO-Experts for $99.99 plus $6.50 S&H. I considered the same Kemo 4055 unit
that the guys from California bought and had the following dialog with
Quasar before I decided to look for and buy a different sensor. Note, the
Model 2004 does not come with an annunciator action like planned by the
California guys are doing with the ACS2002; but, I plan to put in my every 1
hour procedure after I switch tanks, to check the display to see what, if
anything is going on. Some of the locals here in Indiana have the unit from
CO-Experts and report it works with good precision and are happy with it.
And can be recertified by sending it back to the company for maintenance.
see http://www.coexperts.com/ for more info.
Here is the latest dialog(emails) I had on the 4055:
From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming(at)sigecom.net]
Subject: Re: Kemo 4055
Thank you for your previous reply concerning the VAT. Another question has
come to light: How does one go about testing the Kemo 4055 sensor to see
that it responds correctly for various carbon monoxide levels? And Is that
documentation available on the 4055 that I can see it on-line? I think it
would be nice to be able to test the sensor weekly or something like that to
help ensure it still works. After all, we are sort of staking our lives on
it -- aren't we? What is the recommended replacement or recharge period of
time?
Larry H, USA
((((((())))))) - I cannot show you their reply sent back to me due to the
following which was appended to their reply:
**********************************************************************
The information contained within this email is for use by the recipient only
and must not be communicated to any third party without the prior written
consent of Quasar Electronics Limited. ..... All information contained in
this email is the property of Quasar Electronics Limited.
**********************************************************************
Needless to say, their response changed my mind on buying their unit. Best
wishes to all for a happy and safe new year.
Larry in Indiana
----- Original Message -----
>
> I installed a CO Guardian in my panel - fits in a small standard hole with
a
> fitting kit:
>
> http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
>
> These guys are distributors.....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>
>
> >
> > Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
> >
> > http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinions on Hobbs Meter selection wanted |
The ACS2002 has a built-in hobbs meter. Saves space and hopefully
maintenance.
Indiana Larry
>
> Listers,
> I'm trying to choose a Hobbs meter to install in the right mid cabin
> cover (F-8113-R) of my RV-8A project. I'm leaning towards using one of the
> rectangular units (it's smaller). I note that ACS offers two rectangular
> units. ACS offers the Model 15000. See
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/hobbs.php
>
> Wicks Aircraft has two offerings. Models 82450 and 85094. The 85094
appears
> to be the same unit as ACS's model 15000
>
>
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1868~subid=2742/index.html
>
>
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=1875~subid=2743/index.html
>
> Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these units? Any advantage
to
> purchasing the more expensive units?
>
> Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | vans alternators |
However, one
shouldn't consider the 35 amp unit junk because it doesn't have the capacity
one really should be using for his/her specific needs.
J,
the only reason I consider them to be junk is because several of the ones I
have seen from Vans were junk. They weren't rebuilt, and in one case, didn't
work at all.
If you are sure that your installation can not overheat the alternator with
everything turned on then fly the heck out of it. My point was that using
the manufacturer's values in this case is not going to be a valid decision
since the two different generas rate their products differently but the
numbers listed appear similar in form.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Many automobile alternators turn backwards when used in an airplane. I
think
that is why Van's discards the fan. The certificated airplanes that use
alternators (that I have seen) still have a fan, and I would highly
recommend one
Dan,
Very few power sources are rated for continuous duty, including alternators
unless required to be so by some agency.
I won't argue with your experience, but I can tell you that Van's units,
either 35 or 60 amps, on the test bench will start to fry at something less
than the supposed rated output. Been there, done that, watched the temp
probes start sticking to the insulation... As far as I'm concerned,
regardless of what the manufacture rates it at, this is the only way to be
sure what the unit can do.
I have also found that alternators are not self limited in that I have had
to change, and or overhaul at least 300 to 400 alternators over the years,
and they can get pretty smelly due to burnt stator insulation.
RE fans, most of the japanese units vent from both ends out the sides and
usually don't have an external fan, whereas the delco and bosch units tend
to vent from the back to the front and usually do have an external fan.
Honda engines tend to turn the same way as aeroplanes so this is a good
choice for the rotor source as the internal fans are a permanent part of the
field rotor.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Homebuilt Catalog |
>just not reality. Additionally, he has limited flexibility and likely
would not be able to "build" an RV at all. That being said...I >remember
seeing a catalog at one time that basically covered all the details on a
bazillion different homebuilts. I can't remember >the name of the catalog,
but I would like to purchase it to help him look at some alternatives. Off
the top of my head I think a >Zenith might be a good choice. Anyone know the
name and where I might be able to get said catalog?
You are probably talking about EAA's AeroCrafter.
http://www.pilotsbooks.com/aero_crafters.htm
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Through the reseller from the vendor...
The unit needs to be refurbed at about seven years - there's something
inside that wears out......don't remember the specifics.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: CO Detector
>
> Looks nice, but pricey. I didn't see where it said how long they last.
> Do
> you know? Most others I've been looking at are no good after five years.
>
> I like their remote enunciator light. Push to test, twist to dim LED.
> Nice. Anyone know where else to get those? Digikey?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ralph E. Capen [mailto:recapen(at)earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:02 PM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: CO Detector
>>
>>
>>
>> I installed a CO Guardian in my panel - fits in a small
>> standard hole with a fitting kit:
>>
>> http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
>>
>> These guys are distributors.....
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
>> To:
>> Subject: RV-List: CO Detector
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Anyone using one of these CO detectors? Recommended?
>> >
>> > http://www.pilotmall.com/page/1/PROD/101/303
>> >
>> > -
>> > Larry Bowen
>> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>> > http://BowenAero.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ========
>> ========
>> ========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Crosswind Limits |
I have about 250 hours in my -4 and often feel like the FNG. I find 15
knots of cross wind component to be the most I (and/or the aircraft) can
handle. For me, the rate of change in direction/speed is at least as
important as absolute magnitude in determining my ability to land.
Good luck,
Dean
Bolton, MA
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: Crosswind Limits
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:39:21 -0500
I'm an RV FNG (0.0 hours) but have a lot of military jet time. The
crosswind limits on the A-4 with spoilers deployed were 25 kts
symmetrical and 15 kts assymetrical. Those upper limits were a handful
in landing a 13,000 lb. tricycle gear delta wing jet. Do most RV pilots
have a 20+ kt crosswind limit? I would have guessed the number was less
- maybe 15 - 20 kts.
Paul Valovich
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Crosswind Limits |
>
> I have about 250 hours in my -4 and often feel like the FNG.
> I find 15
> knots of cross wind component to be the most I (and/or the
> aircraft) can
> handle. For me, the rate of change in direction/speed is at least as
> important as absolute magnitude in determining my ability to land.
Interesting thread - many good comments that generally can't be disagreed
with. I am not a high time pilot, with most of my flying experience coming
from my RV6-A. I would agree that 15 knots is probably the limit, requiring
the airplane to be crabbed at about 14 degrees relative to the air at
touchdown. Of course one can "get away" with higher and higher crosswinds,
but that is not a wise thing to do.
Many have posted something like "I've landed in xx knots crosswind component
so I know that is at least the limit". As is often the case with people on
this list when discussing reliability of such and such a component, one
cannot scientifically support these sorts of conclusions. Having 1500 hours
trouble free time on brand X alternator, to pick an example, means nothing
with respect to brand X's reliability. Numerous brand X alternators would
have to be run thousands of hours each to begin to determine the expected
reliability of them. Even having that information does not tell one when a
given unit will fail.
The same goes for crosswind landings - the risk of balling up the plane from
crosswind landings goes from zero at no crosswind to 100% at some high
crosswind. There is no magic threshhold crosswind, but a continuous and
exponentially increasing risk as the crosswind goes up. Like all our
flying, probability comes into play.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 561 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
W,
I won't argue with your experience either! Everything built has an expected
service life, so in that regard, I suppose, alternators are not rated for
continuous duty. Continuous meaning full output for its entire lifetime.
The point here is that the alternator should not be able to overheat itself
and fail in just a short time. One reason you have seen overheated failures
was probably because the airflow was restricted somehow. For example, I have
seen alternators packed with oily "mud" which caused them to overheat. My
friends RV-9A failed the alternator during taxi testing. I opened it up to
find the insulation fried as you said. I believe a fan would have prevented
this failure. Alternators are limited in their output current as I posted
earlier. I think the inductive reactance of the stator windings is the primary
reason for this limiting. With proper cooling airflow, a properly designed
alternator will not overheat from being loaded too heavily -- that is, from
putting out too much current. This, of course, assumes that the voltage
regulator is functional. I have also seen alternators fail due to overheating
when
one diode is shorted or open (after many thermal cycles) causing more heating
than the unit was designed for.
I certainly would not consider any alternator junk just because it has a low
amperage rating. A 20 amp alternator which is reliable should be considered
a fine machine. My definition of junk is something that is prone to
failure. I don't think the alternator should fail from trying to recharge the
battery after the master switch was left on, for example. This certainly can
be
hard on the alternator. And I would recommend several hours on the battery
charger to make it easier on the alternator if this happens. If your
alternator has severely restricted airflow. it will probably fail before the charging
current comes back to a low level. This would apply to Vans 35 amp with no
fan. That fan moves a lot of air. I don't know if a 5/8 inch blast tube
could possibly provide that much airflow. It would require some instrumentation
to determine if enough cooling air is being provided. Believe me, if you get
enough cooling air (like in the original application) it will not burn up!
Thanks for your responses. My only reason for making these posts is to
share my personal experiences in order to help the readers of the list build
safer, more reliable airplanes.
Regards,
Dan Hopper, retired automotive electrical engineer
RV-7A (Flying, but not much lately due to weather)
In a message dated 12/30/04 12:05:37 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us writes:
Dan,
Very few power sources are rated for continuous duty, including alternators
unless required to be so by some agency.
I won't argue with your experience, but I can tell you that Van's units,
either 35 or 60 amps, on the test bench will start to fry at something less
than the supposed rated output. Been there, done that, watched the temp
probes start sticking to the insulation... As far as I'm concerned,
regardless of what the manufacture rates it at, this is the only way to be
sure what the unit can do.
I have also found that alternators are not self limited in that I have had
to change, and or overhaul at least 300 to 400 alternators over the years,
and they can get pretty smelly due to burnt stator insulation.
RE fans, most of the japanese units vent from both ends out the sides and
usually don't have an external fan, whereas the delco and bosch units tend
to vent from the back to the front and usually do have an external fan.
Honda engines tend to turn the same way as aeroplanes so this is a good
choice for the rotor source as the internal fans are a permanent part of the
field rotor.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=d0ca36fc
You could use this to "calibrate" your CO detector. It's not an appropriate
unit to mount in the plane, but has a battery back-up and a digital display.
Decide what level you want to have your unit go off at and set it using this
one to display the concentration you are shooting for. Set yours to go off
at that level. I think I paid about $25 for it at Costco.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A empennage for sale |
Here's another thing you won't be doing in your Zenith:
Left Yuma for Phoenix this morning, climbed to 7,500 eastbound (from 188' at
KYUM) level at altitude within 10 miles of origin. On course-2250 rpm, 6.5
gph, 150 kts TAS. On return, sliding downhill into the area at 165 kts,
approach says "Can you slow down to let 2 King Airs in before you?" I say,
"I can slow down or speed up-your choice"
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
Lyc O-320 Sensenich FP
>>> After finishing the empennage of a RV9A,....Snip.....the aircraft cost
>>> is
> going to be too high for me. While the RV9A will always be my
> dream.....Snip....I have decided....Snip....a Corvair powered Zenith
> 601XL.
> <<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9A empennage for sale |
Here's another thing you won't be doing in your Zenith:
Left Yuma for Phoenix this morning, climbed to 7,500 eastbound (from 188' at
KYUM) level at altitude within 10 miles of origin. On course-2250 rpm, 6.5
gph, 150 kts TAS. On return, sliding downhill into the area at 165 kts,
approach says "Can you slow down to let 2 King Airs in before you?" I say,
"I can slow down or speed up-your choice"
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
Lyc O-320 Sensenich FP
>> >> After finishing the empennage of a RV9A,....Snip.....the aircraft cost
> is
>> going to be too high for me. While the RV9A will always be my
>> dream.....Snip....I have decided....Snip....a Corvair powered Zenith
> 601XL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
,
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil cooler
flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
weak link in the chain. Photos here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has done,
this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want to
check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
installation robust.
http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
Hope this helps!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Dan,
Thanks for all the great photos of this problem!
Did you use steel tubing for the spacers? I've heard that aluminum tubing, in
this application, will compress over time, leading to looseness in the assembly
& premature failure.
Regards,
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A 830 hrs flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:17:27 -0800
>
>
> As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
> report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
> However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil cooler
> flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
> weak link in the chain. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
>
> I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
> cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has done,
> this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
> astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want to
> check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
>
> Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
> MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
> installation robust.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
>
> Hope this helps!
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Flange destruction of this nature seems to point to movement in the oil
cooler.. I use 4 bolts on my -6 and don't have any problems. I do use steel
tubing spacers instead of aluminum though. The tubes keep the bolts from
pulling the cooler flanges inwards. If the aluminum wears on the ends, it
will allow the flanges to move inwards slightly and cause a loose condition.
Another issue could be the cooler contacting the engine mount, but you would
see a chaf if this was true. Your repair looks great, but I personally
would go with steel tubing spacers.
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
Edmond Ok
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
;
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
>
> As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
> report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
> However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil
cooler
> flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
> weak link in the chain. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
>
> I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
> cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has
done,
> this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
> astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want
to
> check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
>
> Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
> MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
> installation robust.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
>
> Hope this helps!
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sweet" <w_sweet(at)comcast.net> |
,
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Dan,
Looks like you may have vibration problems. Have you had the prop/engine dynamically
balance? If not that would be a good thing to do. Can't believe normal stress
(unless the mounting is out of alignment somehow) did that.
Don't blame it on Van's design. Four bolts should be enough, UNLESS it is under
high vibration or mis-alignment stress.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com ; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com
; RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:17 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Oil Cooler Flange Failure
As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil cooler
flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
weak link in the chain. Photos here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of page)
I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when installing my oil
cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the amazing job Van's has done,
this is one area where the plans are definitely leading "newbies" like me
astray. I take full responsibility for what happened, but you might want to
check your installation if you followed the drawing blindly like I did.
Here's the end result, including the modifications I made (that probably
MANY less ignorant people have already made) in order to make the
installation robust.
http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
Hope this helps!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Durakovich <ddurakovich(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Homebuilt Catalog |
I suspect what you're looking for might be the Aerocrafters handbook from EAA.
http://shop.eaa.org/Html/2books_aerocrafter.html?cart_id
Great book, lot's of references, includes a CD with filterable search capabilities.
Dave Durakovich
RV-4 - N666PR
Detroit, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ice formation (and prevention) in auto fuel in flight (long) |
> You might have a good understanding of how the solubility of water in
> gasoline changes with temperature but this link explains it better
> than I can.
>
> http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf
>
> Some years ago when there was a discussion on the use of fuel filters
> rather than gascolators I expressed concern after finding ice crystals
> when draining the sumps. (snip) I feel that this could be enough to plug a
> filter under the right conditions. I'm not sure what you have in your
> fuel system, however, looking at the physics a little closer might
> explain it. (snip)
>
> Roger Embree
> C-GIRH
Roger,
That was a great reference. I appreciate it.
In my case, I test every purchase of mogas using EAA's "water test" to ensure
there's no ethanol in the fuel, and I filter it using a fine mesh funnel from AC$.
My plane is hangared.
Some interesting/relevant info I've found while researching this topic:
FAA Advisory Circular AC43-16 also addresses the subject.
"WINTER OPERATIONS
This article was excerpted from a Special Issue General Aviation Airworthiness
Alert issued in Dec. 1985.
ANTI-ICING ADDITIVES
While proper fuel sampling and sumping is essential in preventing the formation
of ice due to free water in the fuel, it will not eliminate the hazard of ice
blockage of fuel flow. Under certain conditions, water in suspension or solution
may form ice crystals. Since water in suspension or solution is not removed by
sumping, the formation of ice crystals must be prevented by adding anti-icing
additives, such as isopropyl alcohol or ethylene glycol monomethyl ether
(EGME), to the fuel. Both additives absorb water and reduce the freezing point
of the mixture. Teledyne Continental and Avco Lycoming approve the use of
both additives in their engines, subject to approval by the respective airframe
manufacturers. When alcohol or EGME are used, instruction for their proper use
must be carefully followed. Obtain and follow the aircraft and engine
manufacturers recommendations regarding the use of anti-icing additives in the
fuel for your aircraft.
DRAINING SUMPS
Proper sumping is very important during the preflight check. Sufficient fuel
should be drawn off into a transparent container to see if the fuel is free from
contaminants. Extra care should be taken during changes in temerature,
particularly when it nears the freezing level. Ice may be in the tanks, which may
turn to water when the temperature rises, and may filter down into the carburetor
or fuel controller causing engine failure. Water can freeze in lines and filters
causing stoppage. A small amount of water, when frozen, can prevent proper
operation of fuel pumps, selector valves, and carburetors." (from
http://www.cessnaowner.org/cgi-bin/phorum-
3.4.1/read.php?f=1&i=8132&t=8132)
From AC23.1521-1B
"g. ASTM D 910, Standard Specification for Aviation Gasolines,
allows the use of isopropyl alcohol conforming to the requirements
of ASTM D 4171, Specifications for Fuel System Icing Inhibitor, as
a fuel system icing inhibitor. Accordingly, isopropyl alcohol
conforming to ASTM D 4171 may be used in concentrations up to 1
percent by volume, to benefit safety, as an icing inhibitor in
automobile gasoline."
-Lycoming Service Letter L172B dated January 25, 1980 says in part "...tests
conducted with EGME used as an ice inhibiting fuel additive have shown to be
satisfactory for use in all Avco Lycoming engines with no adverse affects on
engine operations when used in concentrations up to 0.15% by volume in
Aviation Gasoline. The use of EGME as a fuel additive in Avco Lycoming
engines is approved by Avco Lycoming and the FAA."
- Continental Service Bulletin M81-11 Rev. 1 states in part "...Under certain
ambient conditions of temperature/humidity, water can be supported in the fuel
in sufficient quantities to create restrictive ice formation along various segments
of fuel system." "... ethylene glycol monomethyl ether compounds conforming to
military specification MIL-L-27686E, if approved for use in the aircraft fuel
system by the aircraft manufacturer, can be added for this purpose. The ethylene
glycol monomethyl ether compound must be carefully mixed with the fuel in
concentrations not to exceed 0.15 percent by volume."
- Continental issues the following warning that is important to understand:
- "Mixing of the EGME compound with the fuel is extremely important because
concentration in excess of that recommended (0.15 percent volume maximum)
can have a harmful effect on engine components. Use only blending equipment
that is recommended by the manufacturer to obtain proper proportioning." (from
http://www.sacskyranch.com/crbice.htm)
The Prist (EGME)usage recommendations at PPG's Prist FAQ
(http://www.csdinc.org/prist/faq2.html) convinced me that this product isn't for
me -- PPG recommends against using it in fuel that will be stored in the aircraft
because Prist can settle out of the fuel and cause excessively high concentrations
with potential for damaging the fuel tank and/or filters.
AC 20-113 (at http://www.airweb.faa.gov) has a good discussion of fuel system
icing, including suspension of water and ice in av gas.
Your mention of fuel filters vs ice crystals was though provoking. When I
refueled before the flight where I saw the problem, I think Irecall seeing tiny
white dots that I presume where ice crystals in the sumped fuel, and seeing them
(I think) only in the auto gas tank.
In my plane I have fuel filters (Fram G-3, which is transparent) inside the cockpit
between each fuel tank and the fuel selector valve, and another G-3 filter after
the fuel flow transducer, but before the boost pump (also inside the cockpit).
This final filter serves primarily as a "capacitor" to absorb pulses in the fuel
line
pressure generated by the boost pump and engine driven pump before the pulses
reach the fuel flow transducer.
I suppose it is possible that ice crystals could clog the filter medium even in
the
presence of liquid gasoline. I would think the ice would melt after being in
the
warm cockpit for some time, but perhaps not. I tried the problem tank several
times in flight, and it never fed fuel after the first blockage occurred. This
led
me to believe that the blockage occurred prior to the filter (outside the cockpit,
where it wouldn't melt), either at the finger strainer or in the tubing somewhere
prior to the fuel line's entrance to the cockpit.
I briefly considered installing a valve to allow circumventing the Fram G-3
associated with the auto gas tank as a way to test the "iced filter" theory. That,
however, is a terrible idea in my installation because the "capacitor" filter down
stream could then be clogged by ice. Then switching to the "avgas only" tank
wouldn't solve the problem. Bad!
I can't be sure exactly where the blockage occurred, but I'm confident it was ice,
and was in the fairly short section of fuel line beginning at the finger screen
and
ending at the fuel selector valve. My goal at this point is to reduce the
probability of recurrence.
Given a choice between Prist (EGME) and Isopropyl Alcohol, I think alcohol is
better for my situation. Lycoming SI 1070L permits 1% alcohol in the fuel.
Precision Airmotive answered my email inquiry about carb compatibility this
way "There will be no (carb) problem with the use of 1% Isopropyl alcohol in
your fuel. Please let me know if you have any other questions." I'm waiting on
a
response from Aeroquip to be sure the 701 hose is compatible with isopropyl
alcohol.
So... I'm going to get some anhydrous isopropyl alcohol (Home Depot?) and test
my remaining fuel system components (pro seal, fuel filters and associated
rubber hose, gascolator seals).
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 700 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sgesele(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Dan,
When you reinstall the oil cooler, you may want to use
a stainless steel sleeve on the bolt instead of the
aluminum. The aluminum is relatively soft and will
compress over time. This will result in little, or no
clamping pressure from the bolt and a possible failure
of the mounting flange. The stainless should solve
this problem.
I have well over 700 hrs with this setup and have not
had any problems.
Scott Gesele
N506RV
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> ,
>
> Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
>
>
>
> As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks
> early on. I'm happy to
> report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to
> be rock solid.
> However...last night, when doing an oil change, I
> noticed that my oil cooler
> flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler
> flanges have become the
> weak link in the chain. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041229.html (bottom of
> page)
>
> I blindly followed "the plans" (FWF DWG OP-27) when
> installing my oil
> cooler, and while I don't normally criticize the
> amazing job Van's has done,
> this is one area where the plans are definitely
> leading "newbies" like me
> astray. I take full responsibility for what
> happened, but you might want to
> check your installation if you followed the drawing
> blindly like I did.
>
> Here's the end result, including the modifications I
> made (that probably
> MANY less ignorant people have already made) in
> order to make the
> installation robust.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20041230.html
>
> Hope this helps!
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Dan,
Just excellent info & pix as usual. I'm attaching my oil cooler to the
engine mounts to isolate from the engine. I will use a 3" duct from the baffle
downwards with plenums on both ends. I know many have installed the cooler on
the firewall, including our flying -6a, and am wondering why Van's insists on
staying with the baffle mount. He must think it is more efficient. Your story
is just one of many over the years about cracking in this area. BTW, Pacific
Oil Cooler did a beautiful job for sure.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
In a message dated 12/31/2004 12:03:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
As you may recall, I had a few bad baffle cracks early on. I'm happy to
report that my latest baffle/brace design seems to be rock solid.
However...last night, when doing an oil change, I noticed that my oil cooler
flanges all but self-destructed. The oil cooler flanges have become the
weak link in the chain. Photos here:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Dan,
Just excellent info & pix as usual. I'm attaching my oil cooler to the
engine mounts to isolate from the engine. I will use a 3" duct from the baffle
downwards with plenums on both ends. I know many have installed the cooler on
the firewall, including our flying -6a, and am wondering why Van's insists on
staying with the baffle mount. He must think it is more efficient. Your story
is just one of many over the years about cracking in this area. BTW, Pacific
Oil Cooler did a beautiful job for sure.
The way I look at it, is......
My baffle mounted cooler & oil hoses, all vibrate together as one unit. If I mount
the cooler to a fixed surface such as the firewall or engine mount, then
the hoses will constantly be in movement as the engine vibrates on the mount,
even though the "back end" at the mounts would have the least movement. So what's
worse?
I haven't yet flown, but will check into stainless steel spacers ( IF I didn't
use stainless already --- been too long) & washers. My oil filter is also directly
mounted to the engine. 0360A1A
Larry Adamson RV6A --- installing polished aluminum spinner today. Looks better!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Larry:
I had my oil cooler on the firewall with 3" scat when I did my test flying
back in 1997. The oil ran near redline all the time. Had 3 cases of vapor
lock then moved the oil cooler to the engine mount behind the # 4 cylinder.
Looks just like all the other baffle mount cooler but it is a solid mount on
the engine mount. The hose flex have been no problem yet after over 1,550
hours.
If you check the archives, you may find some info on others that have had
high oil temps with the firewall mount oil cooler. With the cooler mounted
to the engine mount, I have a small duct / plenum (3" X 4") extending to
behind # 4 cylinder. I have the same size opening in the baffle. I
typically run 10 - 15 degrees F cooler than the other RVs I fly with that
have the cooler mounted to the baffle. May have something to do with
getting minimal heat transfer from the cylinder head to the cooler.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:05:49 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure
Dan,
Just excellent info & pix as usual. I'm attaching my oil cooler to the
engine mounts to isolate from the engine. I will use a 3" duct from the
baffle
downwards with plenums on both ends. I know many have installed the cooler
on
the firewall, including our flying -6a, and am wondering why Van's insists
on
staying with the baffle mount. He must think it is more efficient. Your
story
is just one of many over the years about cracking in this area. BTW,
Pacific
Oil Cooler did a beautiful job for sure.
The way I look at it, is......
My baffle mounted cooler & oil hoses, all vibrate together as one unit. If
I mount the cooler to a fixed surface such as the firewall or engine mount,
then the hoses will constantly be in movement as the engine vibrates on the
mount, even though the "back end" at the mounts would have the least
movement. So what's worse?
I haven't yet flown, but will check into stainless steel spacers ( IF I
didn't use stainless already --- been too long) & washers. My oil filter is
also directly mounted to the engine. 0360A1A
Larry Adamson RV6A --- installing polished aluminum spinner today. Looks
better!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Kelly Patterson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum Windshield Fairing |
List:
I am attempting to make my windshield fairing out of aluminum and am trying to
follow the instructions that were written in an RV-ator article I found in 19
years of the RV-ator.
I am puzzled with the part where a jig is made to aid in bending the flange for
the fairing. It says to make this jig so that it will set on the face of the
windshield. Making a cardboard template at the base of the windshield as described
in the instructions results in a template that will not sit on the face
of the windshield.
Am I missing something here? Any suggestions from anyone who made a metal fairing?
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P (reserved)
Windshield fairing
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Windshield Fairing |
Jeff:
I did this (took 3 tries, but I got a pretty good result finally).
The way I interpretted the instructions was that the cardboard template
should be, ideally, everywhere perpendicular to the canopy along the
base of the canopy. That means make it fit with the cardboard sticking
out into space, normal to the plexiglass. The shapes are such that a
plane cannot infact do that, but just try to split the difference. It
is not critical. The wood clamp you make from the template only holds
the aluminum in roughly the right shape while you bend the flange. Try
making one and see how it goes.
I initially thought I should use some soft, pure aluminum sheet, but in
the end I was able to get a good result with 2024-T3 sheet. I then
sealed the aluminum to the plexi with a small bead of Lexel sealer. I
really didn't like the idea of epoxying a fiberglass fairing to the
canopy forward skin. If I ever have to replace the canopy, getting the
fiberglass unglued would be a terrible job.
Jeff Orear wrote:
>
>List:
>
>
>I am puzzled with the part where a jig is made to aid in bending the flange for
the fairing. It says to make this jig so that it will set on the face of the
windshield. Making a cardboard template at the base of the windshield as described
in the instructions results in a template that will not sit on the face
of the windshield.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Windshield Fairing |
Thanks for the reply. That is how I figured I would go about it.
I agree with you about making a fiberglass fairing that is permanently stuck
onto the windshield. My concern was also that the windshield is going to
expand and contract with temperature extremes and I wanted it to be able to
do that under a metal fairing.
Again, thanks for the reply.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P (reserved)
windshield fairing
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum Windshield Fairing
>
> Jeff:
> I did this (took 3 tries, but I got a pretty good result finally).
> The way I interpretted the instructions was that the cardboard template
> should be, ideally, everywhere perpendicular to the canopy along the
> base of the canopy. That means make it fit with the cardboard sticking
> out into space, normal to the plexiglass. The shapes are such that a
> plane cannot infact do that, but just try to split the difference. It
> is not critical. The wood clamp you make from the template only holds
> the aluminum in roughly the right shape while you bend the flange. Try
> making one and see how it goes.
>
> I initially thought I should use some soft, pure aluminum sheet, but in
> the end I was able to get a good result with 2024-T3 sheet. I then
> sealed the aluminum to the plexi with a small bead of Lexel sealer. I
> really didn't like the idea of epoxying a fiberglass fairing to the
> canopy forward skin. If I ever have to replace the canopy, getting the
> fiberglass unglued would be a terrible job.
>
> Jeff Orear wrote:
>
>>
>>List:
>>
>>
>>I am puzzled with the part where a jig is made to aid in bending the
>>flange for the fairing. It says to make this jig so that it will set on
>>the face of the windshield. Making a cardboard template at the base of the
>>windshield as described in the instructions results in a template that
>>will not sit on the face of the windshield.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
After Fed Ex-ing a Dynon OAT probe from ACS on the west coast, to Georgia, I
cannot get the system to recognize that it is installed. I have the external
compass connected and working properly and I have checked, re-checked, and
checked again the wiring for the probe. Its only three wires into a 9 pin
connector so it's not that hard. Has anyone had trouble getting a Dynon D10A
to recognize the OAT probe? What are the values of the probe in ohms? Should
I see the values change if I heat up the probe? The three wires from the
probe are as follows. Blue (ground), red, and yellow. I do not know what
the red and yellow wires actually are because they connect to the compass
module with not explanation.
Jerry Isler
RV4 N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sean Caranna" <VP2Flyer(at)cfl.rr.com> |
I've started a new aircraft homebuilding forum at http://www.WingsForum.com
"They" say that a picture is worth a thousand words. The ability to attach
spreadsheets, documents, and CAD files can speak volumes.
I am not asking anyone to leave this list. I'm just offering an additional
resource that will offer easily accessible photo and data file content
intergraded with the message threads. http://www.wingsforum.com also has
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while protecting your email address from SPAM email harvesters.
http://www.WingsForum.com was created because the email based groups just
can't compete with the forum format for organization of topics, searching
information already covered by a group, and relevancy of information
presented. I can't tell you how many HOURS of my life have been wasted
scrolling through off topic threads and information irrelevant to my search
on Yahoo and MSN groups. Lets face it, if you are looking for info on your
spar why should you need to scroll through 30 email post on firewalls 5
about rudders and 2 about nothing at all?
At http://www.WingsForum.com you will find topics well organized, pictures
and relevant files directly attached to their post, private messaging, and
more all on one site. Forum membership is, and will always be, FREE. Try
in out, it cost nothing, and you just might like it. If you don't like it
just let me know how I can improve the site.
Email Digest are available for those who prefer them. You can customize
them for what forums you want to watch, if you want a short excerpt or full
messages of up to 36,000 characters, and what time of day they will be
delivered to you. Users just click the Digest link at the top of the page
once logged in to enable them.
Thanks for your consideration,
Sean C. Caranna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting electric primer valve |
Hey great wise builders.... I'm stumped.
How do you mount the electric fuel primer valve that Van's sells?
I've searched the usual places for ideas with no luck.
FWIW - there are 2 threaded holes in one end, and a big nut on the other
(no, not me).
I can always use an Adel clamp on the valve body, but that is no good in my
book - too wobbly for a fuel line.
Let me know what has worked for you.
Thanks & Happy New Year!
Kelly Patterson
PHX, AZ
RV6A Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
I heard a rumor you have to have the OAT probe installed when you upload the
software into the Dynon as it is supposed to send some info to the
magnetometer and that only occurs when the probe is hooked up.... So you could
try
reloading the software (and use the latest version) and see if that helps.
Also, be sure the keep alive power wire is not connected when you hook up
the probe and the magnetometer. I guess there is a (high) potential that if
the power pin connects before the ground pin when installing the connector it
will cause problems with the probe (permanent problems to my understanding).
I have a buddy in the hanger behind me trying to get his to work for 6
months. I just gave up after 3 and have been flying with it inop. Other than
the
stupid probe, the unit is nice..... Good Luck
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Empennage/Tailcone complete, working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <jammeter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting electric primer valve |
>
>
>Hey great wise builders.... I'm stumped.
>How do you mount the electric fuel primer valve that Van's sells?
>I've searched the usual places for ideas with no luck.
>
>FWIW - there are 2 threaded holes in one end, and a big nut on the other
>(no, not me).
>I can always use an Adel clamp on the valve body, but that is no good in my
>book - too wobbly for a fuel line.
>
>Let me know what has worked for you.
>
>Thanks & Happy New Year!
>
>Kelly Patterson
>PHX, AZ
>RV6A Finish
>
I think what I did on my RV-6 was to clamp the two aluminum
fuel lines close to the solenoid. Sold N16JA about 5 or 6
years ago...
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
Gary,
Is your "small duct / plenum (3" x 4") " made of flexible material? If so,
what did you use. If not, what absorbs the movement between the oil cooler
and the rear baffle? I think I want to mount my oil cooler that way since
the carbon fiber plenum from Jon Johanson I am using makes it a little
harder to brace the rear baffle behind #4.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
Larry:
I had my oil cooler on the firewall with 3" scat when I did my test flying
back in 1997. The oil ran near redline all the time. Had 3 cases of vapor
lock then moved the oil cooler to the engine mount behind the # 4 cylinder.
Looks just like all the other baffle mount cooler but it is a solid mount on
the engine mount. The hose flex have been no problem yet after over 1,550
hours.
If you check the archives, you may find some info on others that have had
high oil temps with the firewall mount oil cooler. With the cooler mounted
to the engine mount, I have a small duct / plenum (3" X 4") extending to
behind # 4 cylinder. I have the same size opening in the baffle. I
typically run 10 - 15 degrees F cooler than the other RVs I fly with that
have the cooler mounted to the baffle. May have something to do with
getting minimal heat transfer from the cylinder head to the cooler.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,617 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Flange Failure |
All this talk about oil coolers has me wondering if there is anyone besides
myself (and one other that I know of ) who have their oil cooler mounted on
top of the engine crankcase in an aluminum box with the exhaust air vented
out the rear baffle? That was the way Van's recomended mounting it at one
time (back in the 80's). They even sold some kind of cooler that looked like
it was designed to cool the fluid of an automatic transmission. It had #6 AN
fittings welded on it and was nothing more than a U-shaped tube with cooling
fins. I've since replaced mine but kept the same location. If my oil temp
indicator is to be believed, I have had no problems in 1100 hrs. And summers
do get a little warm here in Texas! This is on a -4 with an 0-320 and wood
prop.
Ivan Haecker -4 1123hrs. S. Cen. TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
All this oil cooler talk has got me wanting to move my oil cooler off
the firewall to a spot where it will get better cooling. I've seen
several installations over the years that I've liked but I've forgotten
where all these pictures were. If anyone has an pictures of their RV-4
oil cooler installations I'd sure like to take a look. Especially if
you've mounted it on the baffle or engine mount behind good ol' #4.
Maybe even in the cheek cowling.
Thanks!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | WTB Sensinich Metal prop |
The guy who runs the local FBO bought a RV-6 that has a cut down metal prop
on it, ( ~70.5") and he would like to buy a Sensinich Metal prop. This
airplane has a 150 hp but he might buy something that needed repitched if it
was wrong.
Call 641-430-9898 and tell him I told you to call.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
MCW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: Tomorrow is the day |
Best wishes Phil;
I have told people," I'm not built to know the thrill of motherhood, but
that first flight has to be a close second ! ".
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum Windshield Fairing |
>I really didn't like the idea of epoxying a fiberglass fairing to the
>canopy forward skin. If I ever have to replace the canopy, getting the
>fiberglass unglued would be a terrible job.
Unless you don't glue it in place. I molded my fiberglass fairing up
against the canopy "glass" and forward skin, making it a removable unit,
nonstickum underneath. After it cured and was finished, it was then
riveted to the forward skin with AN rivets and to the canopy frame with
pull rivets, RTV in between for sealing. Looks good (IMHO), air and
water tight and is a perfect fit. I can't remember how many layers of
glass; enough to look sturdy and look good. Fiberglass is so much easier
to work with than metal. This is on a -4 but would work on a -6.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Oil cooler mounting |
I am posting this again for anyone that might be interested. I believe there are
others that have done this, if so maybe they might want to comment.
Eustace Bowhay
----- Original Message -----
From: Eustace Bowhay
Subject: Oil cooler mounting
Finished mounting my cooler today and will pass on the why's and werefor's.
On my RV6 I chose to mount a nine row Stewart Warner on and under the left hand
forward baffle which is more or less flush with the air inlet of the cowling.
This has worked well for ten years with only one minor crack repair in one corner
of the cut out. This installation has been able to keep the oil temps at
the vernatherm setting under the most severe conditions including all the testing
that was done on the amphib float installation.
When it came time to install the cooler on the 6A I decided to go the same route.
Having read
a lot of hot oil discussions on this list and knowing that the installation on
the 6 had no problems it didn't make any sense to do something different. I wanted
to get the same cooler for the 6A but found that it was not available from
Vans or ACS so gave Pacific Oil Cooler Services a call and they shipped the
cooler the same day. However when it arrived it was the right size cooler but
had both fittings on one end which wouldn't work for my installation, was my
fault for not giving them enough detail. Included with the cooler was some advertising
material and a brochure on the 7 & 9 row Aero Classic which is the same
as the Stewart Warner but sold to the home builders. I talked to Pacific and
they had no problem with a swap. I received the 9 row Aero classic a couple
of days ago, the same as the Stewart Warner and carries a 2 year 2000 hour warranty
and the price was 205.00 and got a 150.00 credit to my Visa. The folks
at Pacific get top marks from me.
I had finished the baffles (Van's kit) so removed the left front baffle and installed
the cooler, installation time was six hours. Would be happy to supply more
detail and pictures if it is of any interest.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Oil Cooler pictures |
Has anybody tried a firewall mount oil cooler with a naca inlet and duct
off the side of the cowling? I'm wondering if that might be a way to not
December 20, 2004 - December 31, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-qh