RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ey
August 28, 2009 - September 08, 2009
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
One caution about Sedona. If the winds are strong from the Southwest you may
need to land at Flagstaff or Prescott and wait for more favorable weather.
The rotor effect is very strong with high winds and a landing to the
Southwest. Because the runway 21 is downhill, the approaching aircraft
falsely appears to be high. Check this.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070418X00434&key=1. Sedona is
very nice but can be dangerous with strong SW winds.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re
here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting
airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way
(uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of
the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in
the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your
freshly painted plane in the foreground.
(I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
Deems
Don McDonald wrote:
> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
> ????
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
> inbound :-)
>
>
> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside sometimes.
> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any flying,
> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
> >
> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super destination
> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
> >
> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >
> >
> >
> > Deems Davis wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
> >>
> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
> other similarly 'infected' types.
> >>
> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
> >>
> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
> a trip' bulletin board.
> >>
> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
> >>
> >> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >>>
> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Payson diner is the Crosswinds Caf and for good reason. IIRC there are
windsocks at both ends and atop the caf. If wind conditions are strong they
can all be indicating different directions. Makes for an interesting
landing. Watch the approach speeds and keep them in reason so you land on
the part of the runway that matches your windsock. Runway 6 is downhill.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between Deems &
Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ (5,200 MSL).
Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge overlooking the runway.
The type of place people use as a destination to ride their Harleys to on
the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was also the cheapest fuel in
the area (but check me on that). Payson also where I learned that landing at
80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the 1,000' markers. The far 1,000'
markers. :-)
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while you/re
here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an interesting
airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you land one way
(uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences on the ends of
the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red rock' formations in
the area. It would make for some REALLY neat air-to-air shots with your
freshly painted plane in the foreground.
(I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
Deems
Don McDonald wrote:
> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
> Don McDonald
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
> ????
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>
> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
> inbound :-)
>
>
> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >
> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
sometimes.
> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
flying,
> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
> >
> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
destination
> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
> >
> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
> >
> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> >
> >
> >
> > Deems Davis wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
> >>
> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
> other similarly 'infected' types.
> >>
> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
> >>
> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
> a trip' bulletin board.
> >>
> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
> >>
> >> Tim Olson wrote:
> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
> >>>
> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Marz <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | "Gretz" Pitot Tube |
I received a new pitot tube from Andrew Leopold with Angus Aviation
to replace my damaged one. All Andrew wanted was my old one back to
check why it failed. Andrew was very good to work with, and fixed my
problem. Blue Skys
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Payson is a local favorite for breakfast runs, along with Sedona and
Prescott. However, it is not a cheap fuel spot. St. Johns, 30 min
further east will be the low price in the state most of the time,
closely followed by Casa Grande and Eloy. Eloy is a full time jump
school, requiring attention for jump planes and non-standard pattern,
has a cafe on field.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between
> Deems & Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ
> (5,200 MSL). Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge
> overlooking the runway. The type of place people use as a destination to
> ride their Harleys to on the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was
> also the cheapest fuel in the area (but check me on that). Payson also
> where I learned that landing at 80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the
> 1,000' markers. The far 1,000' markers. :-)
>
> Robin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>
>
> Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
> short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while
> you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an
> interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you
> land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences
> on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red
> rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat
> air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground.
> (I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
>
> Deems
>
>
> Don McDonald wrote:
>> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
>> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
>> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
>> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
>> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
>> Don McDonald
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
>> ????
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>>
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>
>> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
>> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
>> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
>> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
>> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
>> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
>> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
>> inbound :-)
>>
>>
>> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >
>> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
> sometimes.
>> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
> flying,
>> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
>> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
>> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
>> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
>> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
>> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
>> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
>> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
>> >
>> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
>> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
> destination
>> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
>> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
>> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
>> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
>> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
>> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
>> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
>> >
>> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
>> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
>> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
>> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
>> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
>> >
>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Deems Davis wrote:
>> > <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>> >>
>> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
>> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
>> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
>> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
>> other similarly 'infected' types.
>> >>
>> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
>> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
>> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
>> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
>> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
>> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
>> >>
>> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
>> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
>> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
>> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
>> a trip' bulletin board.
>> >>
>> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
>> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>> >>
>> >> Tim Olson wrote:
>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
>> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
>> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
>> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
>> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
| From: | "rv10flyer" <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello. I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. With a wife, two
kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. They enjoy the traveling
and the view. I have A&P from 88-93 military service, which helps not to
get so nervous about everything. This is a huge project and will cost almost
as much as it cost to build our house. We built the house ourselves and it took
about 3 yrs total. I am hoping for about the same on the 10. It is nice
to have all this information available if needed. Thanks.
--------
Wayne Gillispie
Builder #40983
RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
Grayson, Kentucky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations! You will greatly benefit from your house building
experience, as well as your A&P. My wife and I built a house in
Fairbanks, circa 1979, then under took the RV-10 project shortly after
my retirement. In fact, just yesterday, reserved a tail number, which
if FAA confirms, will be N10CA. I expect, like the house, the plane
project will never be "finished", it will just reach a licensed and
airworthy stage.
If you haven't already, you might find it worthwhile to convert your
military A&P into a civilian ticket.
Good luck with your project.
Kelly
A&P/IA
KCHD
N10CA pending, awaiting QB arrival, 40866
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:04 AM, rv10flyer wrote:
>
> Hello. I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. With a wife, two
kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. They enjoy the traveling
and the view. I have A&P from 88-93 military service, which helps not to get
so nervous about everything. This is a huge project and will cost almost as
much as it cost to build our house. We built the house ourselves and it took
about 3 yrs total. I am hoping for about the same on the 10. It is nice to have
all this information available if needed. Thanks.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> Builder #40983
> RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
> Grayson, Kentucky
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "richard sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
Ditto the comments on Payson, a neat place. I learned to fly my RV-4 there
in the mid 90s.
At that time Herb Ross, one of Van's first employees, was running a little
builder assistance business there.
IIRC there was another company down in Tuscon doing the same thing.
Dick Sipp
N110DV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>
> Payson is a local favorite for breakfast runs, along with Sedona and
> Prescott. However, it is not a cheap fuel spot. St. Johns, 30 min
> further east will be the low price in the state most of the time,
> closely followed by Casa Grande and Eloy. Eloy is a full time jump
> school, requiring attention for jump planes and non-standard pattern,
> has a cafe on field.
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Robin Marks
> wrote:
>>
>> On a recent trip to AZ I did a few landings at Payson (PAY) between
>> Deems & Sedona. It was beautiful there, more like Colorado than AZ
>> (5,200 MSL). Looked like a really cool diner on the airport edge
>> overlooking the runway. The type of place people use as a destination to
>> ride their Harleys to on the weekend. Check it out. As I remember it was
>> also the cheapest fuel in the area (but check me on that). Payson also
>> where I learned that landing at 80 Knots gets you to land exactly on the
>> 1,000' markers. The far 1,000' markers. :-)
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:23 PM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
>>
>>
>> Now thats what I'm talking about !!!!!!!!! ;-) Seriously, we're only a
>> short flight from Sedona, and would love to hook up with you while
>> you/re here. There's an RV-10 in Prescott as well. Sedona is an
>> interesting airport. It sits on the top of a 500' mesa, normally, you
>> land one way (uphill) and take off the other. The elevation differences
>> on the ends of the runway is 100'. There is some really amazing 'red
>> rock' formations in the area. It would make for some REALLY neat
>> air-to-air shots with your freshly painted plane in the foreground.
>> (I've got a camera that should be up to the task).
>>
>> Deems
>>
>>
>> Don McDonald wrote:
>>> Deems, and you other AZ 10 guys, we are flying (at least that's the
>>> plan) to Sedona on 9-4 for a week. It would be nice to at least meet
>>> up.... either in Sedona, or we could stop on the way there or on our
>>> return trip. I'm sure we'll have a spare day or so to fly... and for
>>> that day or so we have accomodations for you as well.
>>> Don McDonald
>>>
>>> --- On *Wed, 8/26/09, Deems Davis //* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
>>> ????
>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:09 PM
>>>
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>>
>>> Tim you might want to consider Copperstate as an alternate to LOE
>>> this year. I've heard the same about LOE, great for RV'rs but not
>>> much else to do. Copperstate is not so large that flying in and
>>> out during the event is the challenge it is @ OSH. Tie in a visit
>>> to Sedona, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Puerto Penasco, San
>>> Diego, Las Vegas ??? We'll make it worth your while. I'll fly part
>>> way out to meet you so you can have a -10 to look at on your way
>>> inbound :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Deems drumming up Copperstate attendance Davis
>>>
>>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>> >
>>> > I think gatherings would be fun, but, there is a downside
>> sometimes.
>>> > If you go somewhere with tons to do, then nobody does any
>> flying,
>>> > and there is too much draw to go visit other things. On the
>>> > other hand, if you go somewhere lame, then there is only flying
>>> > to do, and the family will get bored. So personally, I really
>>> > like the idea of gathering in one spot, and flying around
>>> > to a couple others....kind of like the last couple trips I
>>> > did like meeting David Maib and Vic and heading to Key West,
>>> > or metting Scott and heading to Oregon. That makes for a great
>>> > FLYING vacation where you can camp or see things too.
>>> >
>>> > This year I was considering LOE for a fly-in since it's been
>>> > a while, but, at the same time, it's not really a super
>> destination
>>> > for the kids and family....you basically will love it if you
>>> > just want to hang out with other builders, and you can
>>> > fly all day long if you want. But, you hang out at the
>>> > airport a lot. OSH is a great GATHERING but not the most
>>> > convenient place to do lots of flying. What would make
>>> > OSH more fun is if people would meet up along the way,
>>> > and the closer you got, the more people you had.
>>> >
>>> > So it's hard because everyone has a varied agenda of what
>>> > they'd like. I don't think I'll be at LOE this year,
>>> > but I know I'll be flying a couple more times on trips by
>>> > the end of the year. It's always nice to fly along and look
>>> > out the window and see another RV-10. :)
>>> >
>>> > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Deems Davis wrote:
>>> >> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis@cox.net>>
>>> >>
>>> >> I like this idea ... RV10 gathering/s. OSH is definitely a
>>> great gathering, but I'd love to see if there's any interest in
>>> getting together somewhere with some other builder/flyers. I think
>>> the biggest attraction to OSH for me is just getting to visit with
>>> other similarly 'infected' types.
>>> >>
>>> >> I monitor the SoCal RV list, and they routinely have several
>>> posts each week where several people connect and either meet
>>> somewhere or fly somewhere together. I realize we're spread
>>> across the US and the logistics are greatly expanded, but it would
>>> be nice if we developed into the kind of group that routinely met
>>> and flew together either regionally or otherwise.
>>> >>
>>> >> What if people just used this list to post ideas about where,
>>> who, and when they would like to take a trip with some others? and
>>> let people naturally connect? If it turns out to be a benefit, who
>>> know someone might set up part of a website as an " I want to take
>>> a trip' bulletin board.
>>> >>
>>> >> Deems Davis N519PJ
>>> >> http://deemsrv10.com/index.html
>>> >>
>>> >> Tim Olson wrote:
>>> <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim@myrv10.com>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I just do it to try to get you all to finish up so we can have
>>> >>> some great RV-10 gatherings. :)
>>> >>> Tim
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV1bsp; -
>>> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -nbsp;
>>> ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
>>> target=_blank>http://www.matro====================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what
I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me
around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves
another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take
as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Gretz" Pitot Tube |
I had a very similar experience. Great product, great support! Highly recommend
the Gretz/Angus product.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle
At 05:12 AM 8/28/2009 Friday, you wrote:
>
>I received a new pitot tube from Andrew Leopold with Angus Aviation
>to replace my damaged one. All Andrew wanted was my old one back to
>check why it failed. Andrew was very good to work with, and fixed my
>problem. Blue Skys
>
>Barry Marz
>18735 Baseleg AVE.
>FT. Myers, Fl 33917
>239-567-2271
>blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Filling empenage tip fairings |
| From: | "Bill Cannon" <bc777(at)optonline.net> |
Hi all,
While waiting for my QB I am working on the fairings of the emp. For the ones
I wish to have the filled in look I have a couple questions.
I have seen a few posts regarding this for other rv models that the builders have
used glass to cover the seam. Do you need to glass it or is just using filler
(superfil) ok? The gap is small and the unevenness is minimal so it appears
to me that filler would work as far as smoothing it out. Is the glass mentioned
on the other models because their fairings were not as good as the 10's
or is this something that is needed to prevent the filler from flexing and cracking?
As far as the superfil goes... Do I have to use polyfiber's UV smooth prime over
it or can I use another filler primer as long as it is chemically compatible?
The dry time of 3 weeks and then a coat of urethane seems like quite a process
for the UV smooth prime.
Thanks,
Bill Cannon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260223#260223
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming. |
With your background building the RV-10 will be a slam-dunk. In areas that
you have no skills they can be learned or purchased - since you are "handy"
you would probably enjoy the learning.
-
There is a great depth of talent on this site but we cannot-convert your
dreaming years into building/flying years. Congratulations on your choice.
-
Still sporting the mindless smile after 3 years of flying,
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB-
--- On Fri, 8/28/09, Kelly McMullen wrote:
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ordered 10 sb complete kit after 5 yrs of dreaming.
Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 7:14 AM
Congratulations! You will greatly benefit from your house building
experience, as well as your A&P. My wife and I built a house in
Fairbanks, circa 1979, then under took the RV-10 project shortly after
my retirement. In fact, just yesterday, reserved a tail number, which
if FAA confirms, will be N10CA. I expect, like the house, the plane
project will never be "finished", it will just reach a licensed and
airworthy stage.
If you haven't already, you might find it worthwhile to convert your
military A&P into a civilian ticket.
Good luck with your project.
Kelly
A&P/IA
KCHD
N10CA pending, awaiting QB arrival, 40866
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:04 AM, rv10flyer wrote
:
>
> Hello. -I am a low time(92 hrs) pilot tired of renting 172's. -With a
wife, two kids(6+9 yrs), 20 lbs baggage the 172S is at max gross. -They
enjoy the traveling and the view. -I have A&P from 88-93 military service
, which helps not to get so nervous about everything. -This is a huge pro
ject and will cost almost as much as it cost to build our house. -We buil
t the house ourselves and it took about 3 yrs total. -I am hoping for abo
ut the same on the 10. -It is nice to have all this information available
if needed. -Thanks.
>
> --------
> Wayne Gillispie
> Builder #40983
> RV-10 Kit Ordered 8/24/09
> Grayson, Kentucky
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260181#260181
>
>
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
| From: | "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> |
Phil,
Congrats.
.002 cents worth [Laughing]
Figure that you are half way there when you get the fuselage on the gear with the
top on.
To shorten the 2nd half, having Stein do the panel will help a bunch but you have
to do a lot of wiring yourself. Preplanning this will help. Wire your wings
as they are finished. Install your trim and autopilot servos as you go. Wire
the tail and fuselage center before you put it on the gear. This all takes
a massive amount of preplanning.
Having the Finishing and Fire Wall forward early does help but you do have to plan
ahead. Are you going with the stock oil cooler, standard throttle cables
or a quad. Better to delete/change the original orders then to send back for
a refund. Also are you going to go with an overhead panel. If you go with the
one now from Stein, it is best installed before you do the final install of
the top.
Another point to consider is that if you are doing an IFR panel, is that it is
MUCH easier to completely wire the fuselage with the instrument panel installed
before you rivet the top skin onto the fuselage (glare shield). Your instrument
panel should be modular enough that after you are finished wiring everything
in, you should be able to remove the major components to get to the back side
of the rivets on the glare shield.
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260232#260232
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
Here is my recent approach plate for you. It's IMC for the next year,
you have no idea what will lay ahead no matter how well you plan the
approach. Time will fly by, you'll need to support the passengers mainly
your co-pilot as she will need some rest and help. My building came to a
screeching stall last year with our second daughter .
I pretty much had all the sections up to the finish kit done before her
arrival. It has been slow go trying to think about what to do with (now)
a new baby around. The good news is that you'll greatly appreciate the
time spent building, it really is relaxing.
My words of advice, take advantage of any opportunity to build but make
sure you take care of your family needs first.. believe me it will pay
off later.
Enjoy the journey! Congratulations, never forget where I was when I got
the call and how blessed I felt!
Pascal
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what
I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me
around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves
another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take
as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cumins" <jcumins(at)jcis.net> |
| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil
Congrats on being a new dad. It will be the most amazing thing in your
life, and the most work. Building the RV-10 is the second best thing
compared to being a dad. My son is 16 =BD and is starting to drive and
being
is own man and it is a major joy to see him grow up. But I very much
miss
the days of little league base ball and basket ball games. But yes they
do
grow up.
That just leaves more time for the wife and flying hehe.
Enjoy and again congrats on the new baby.
John G. Cumins
President
JC'S Interactive Systems
2499 B1 Martin Rd
Fairfield Ca 94533
707-425-7100
707-425-7576 Fax
Your Total Technology Solution Provider
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days,
I=92m
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I=92m now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I=92m not quite sure
what I=92m
supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point,
we=92ll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I=92m thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple
of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious
progress.
I=92m thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing
kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That=92ll cost me
around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket,
I
can knock out the majority of the =93time=94 ahead of me. That leaves
another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn=92t take as
much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel ' Assuming I use
Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy?
I
know there are holes in my plan and I=92m okay with you pointing them
out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com> |
| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil,
I'm slightly ahead of you in that I had your crazy ass plan in mind too 37
weeks and 5 days ago. We're expecting our first child well. pretty damn
soon! Building has slowed tremendously during her pregnancy. I shifted the
energy into an addition onto our house. The building really stopped about 3
mo ago for me due to the home renovations (don't ask if its done yet). The
airplane parts all over the place didn't fly so well with the wife. I
couldn't convince her the Horizontal could double as a changing table and
crib. The motor mount could easily be setup as a basinet I thought. though
she didn't. The bright side is soon we'll have a newborn to help buck
rivets!
I think it's too much to bite off. There is sooo much ahead of you to leech
on your time that you cannot even fathom (listen to me ha my kid aint even
born yet). I would say continue building at your current pace and let the
dust settle where it settles. You need a ton of research time to figure out
how to really build the thing. You know all those hours spent changing your
mind 37 times a week. If you rush it you'll never finish anyway (assuming
you work a standard 8-5 work week) so I wouldn't set the bar so high. Plus
you'll just stress yourself out trying to hit a lofty goal. My advice start
coming to terms w/the fact that it will probably be well over 2 years till
you finish (it takes time to swallow that one believe me).
-Ben Westfall
#40579 (finishing kit buried under home renovations dust)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what I'm
supposed to be doing. :-))
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that point,
we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some serious
progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! :-)
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket, I
can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take as much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy? I
know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Article |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
John,
For the benefit of others that may not be as clear on the issues with
the FAA.....IMHO, if Steve had financed and built the aircraft like
any amateur, finished it, registered it with him as builder, then he
would legally be free to sell that aircraft. In my mind the two
cardinal sins are the Peelers paying Steve to do the build as it is
put together, and then swearing on an FAA form that they, not Steve,
actually built the aircraft. It is about lying to the FAA. If you or I
choose to become multiple offenders, cranking out an RV-10 every year
to educate ourselves on the minor changes that Vans makes from time to
time and how to incorporate the latest gizmos and glass panels, and
then, after finishing and registering the aircraft choose to sell it
to finance the next project....more power to us.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:12 AM, John Cox wrote:
> It's not a red flag, it's a bright Green glowing Light. Shall we just take a
breath and welcome them to Copperstate? Maybe they will be at Independence (7S5),
Oregon tomorrow for the annual Vans Picnic.
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rbibb(at)tomet.net> |
| Subject: | A kid.. Really?? |
Phil:
I've built an RV-4, am building an RV-10, and raised a child in the interim
(who just turned 26, is married, and still brings all the joy I felt when
she arrived in this world).
My advice FWIW:
1) Its good to set goals as far as building but don't let them become
reasons for disappointment if you don't meet them.
2) Other things will come into play and should take priority. If you
don't approach it with the attitude that they are going to take priority you
will get resentful of them and that will be a waste. The journey you are
embarking on will surpass any flight you will ever make in your RV-10, bar
none.
3) The RV-10 will wait patiently for you to complete her when you can
find the time and the money to do it the way you want to; the rest of your
life with your child will be on its own schedule that YOU have to adapt to,
not the other way around.
4) Enjoy the journey and one last bit of hard learned advice:
If your wife nudges you at 3AM and wants an Cheese Cake from a certain all
night deli with a certain type of nuts on top - by all means get up and go
get it for her. I didn't understand that and missed the opportunity to
deliver a lasting memory for both of us that pales to the memory she
delivered to me a few months later...
Congratulations! You can do all of this - slow down and enjoy it or the
stress will take away the joy from seeing two miraculous births - your child
and your airplane.
Richard Bibb
972-771-2598
972-835-5979 mobile
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days, I'm
going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now getting
focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much of the
airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival. (BTW, does
anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not quite sure what I'm
supposed to be doing. :-))
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that point,
we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple of
friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some serious
progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing kits.
This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost me around
another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! :-)
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my pocket, I
can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That leaves another
~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that shouldn't take as much
time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to fly.
Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use Stein
to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the strategy? I
know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
| From: | John Trollinger <john(at)trollingers.com> |
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting ready to
match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have found that the
holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not match up with the
holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the middle
two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just need to drill through
the double and create two new holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed
up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting
ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have
found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not
match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the
four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I
just need to drill through the double and create two new holes in the
ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
My wings were QB, so I did not do this particular task. However, my
experience taught me to go back and take a really good look at
everything if something just did not fit, or holes did not line up.
These pre-punched kits don't seem to have many mistakes of this kind.
Re-read directions carefully,look closely at the drawings, and talk
to other builders (just like you are doing here) before you decided
to drill new holes. Maybe getting a fresh set of eyes to take a look
would be good, too.
$.02 worth
David Maib
40559
flying
On Aug 28, 2009, at 7:33 PM, John Trollinger wrote:
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting
ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have
found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do
not match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs
have the four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this
normal and I just need to drill through the double and create two new
holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
Move to Utah, become a polygamist with multiple wives. More kids =
more chores done. You can even keep your house unfinished so you don't
have to pay property taxes.
Problem solved. You can thank me later.
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry, Phil
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:44 AM
Subject: RV10-List: A kid.. Really??
Those of you who follow VAF may recall the thread below.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=47188
Yes, to our surprise and assuming things go well in the coming days,
I'm going to be a dad. The shock is wearing off a bit and I'm now
getting focused on an aggressive build schedule to try and get as much
of the airplane completed as I possibly can before the new arrival.
(BTW, does anyone have an approach plate for this arrival? I'm not
quite sure what I'm supposed to be doing. J)
So my QB fuse is scheduled to arrive the week after next. At that
point, we'll be able to get started rolling through the project again.
I'm thinking between me, my dad (less than a mile away), and a couple
of friends we can get rolling and get focused on making progress some
serious progress.
I'm thinking of going ahead and ordering the QB wing and finishing
kits. This will get them into the house and ready to go. That'll cost
me around another $30K.
The major costs from that point will include.
1) Engine/Prop Combo
2) Avionics
3) Interior Finishing
a. And paint. But who needs paint! J
This is where my assumption comes in and also my question.
First my assumption: For another $30K out of my
pocket, I can knock out the majority of the "time" ahead of me. That
leaves another ~$100Kish for Engine/Panel and Interior, but that
shouldn't take as much time to complete as the airframe.
Now my question: How long does it really take to:
1) Hang the engine and get it ready to
fly. Then fit the cowling.
2) Install the panel - Assuming I use
Stein to build it for me.
3) Complete the interior.
4) Finally am I nuts about the
strategy? I know there are holes in my plan and I'm okay with you
pointing them out.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
| From: | John Trollinger <john(at)trollingers.com> |
So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and ignore the
center to holes that are already in the ribs?
thanks,
John
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano wrote:
> It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Trollinger
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
>
> All,
>
> I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am getting ready
> to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and have found that
> the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do not match up with
> the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the
> middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just need to drill
> through the double and create two new holes in the ribs, or are my ribs all
> screwed up?
>
> thanks,
>
> John Trollinger
> rv10.trollingers.com
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
John,
This is the response that I received from Van's when I ran across
the same situation.
Ed Godfrey
40717
This is normal. All the ribs are punched the same to save having more rib
part numbers to punch, but in this area you will need to drill into the ribs
using the holes in the reinforcing bar as a guide. Do NOT use the ribs as a
guide to drill the spars.
Vans
Vans,
> I have run across another issue of holes not lining up, this time on
> the rear spar of the wing. Apparently, the holes in the rib do not match
> up with the holes in the rear spar and the Rear Spare Reinforcement
> Fork. The holes that do not line up are on the third and fourth rib,
> starting at the most inboard. One rib being a W-1011-R and the other,
> W1011-L. The holes nearest the spar flanges do match up, but the 2
> "inner" holes punched in the rear spar and the Rear Spare Reinforcement
> Fork do not match the holes in the rib flange. This problem exists on
> both of the wings, with the same ribs. See photos attached. I am looking
> for guidance here as to what is the best course of action to take.
> Thank
> you.
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
John Trollinger wrote:
> So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and
> ignore the center to holes that are already in the ribs?
>
> thanks,
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano > wrote:
>
> It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Trollinger
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
>
> All,
>
> I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am
> getting ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the
> ribs and have found that the holes of two of the ribs (where
> the wing walk is) do not match up with the holes in the
> doubler or rear spar. The ribs have the four holes, the
> middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and I just
> need to drill through the double and create two new holes in
> the ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
>
> thanks,
>
> John Trollinger
> rv10.trollingers.com <http://rv10.trollingers.com>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> a>http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Seano" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar |
Ed said it right. You can tell it was just an easier way to make less
part numbers. The two hole are not used.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
So I should just drill the two new holes through the doubler and
ignore the center to holes that are already in the ribs?
thanks,
John
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Seano wrote:
It's normal. The holes don't get rivets in them.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Trollinger
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Page 15-4 Wing Rear Spar
All,
I need some help and Vans is not answering the phone. I am
getting ready to match drill the rear spar and doublers to the ribs and
have found that the holes of two of the ribs (where the wing walk is) do
not match up with the holes in the doubler or rear spar. The ribs have
the four holes, the middle two just do not line up. Is this normal and
I just need to drill through the double and create two new holes in the
ribs, or are my ribs all screwed up?
thanks,
John Trollinger
rv10.trollingers.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sandra & Rick Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> |
Hi all.
I'm just about to fasten the rudder stops(R-1007B's) to the lower rudder
hinge bracket(VS-1010) and have decided to use bolts as opposed to the
AN470AD4-6 rivets as Scott Schmidt and others have reported can work loose
in high winds.
In looking in the ACS catalogue I see structural machine screws (NAS600-603,
page 93) which have a far greater tensile strength than the rivets.
Unfortunately there is no rating for shear strength which I would think is
more important. What type of screws have those who have replaced the rivets
used??
Has anyone approached Vans w/regards to this substitute, as the prototype
has them??
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> |
Consider Hi-Loks (HL18s) or Hi-Lites from Hi-Shear Corporation.
John Cox
#40600
From: Sandra & Rick Lark
Sent: Sat 8/29/2009 6:26 AM
Subject: RV10-List: rudder stops
Hi all.
I'm just about to fasten the rudder stops(R-1007B's) to the lower rudder
hinge bracket(VS-1010) and have decided to use bolts as opposed to the
AN470AD4-6 rivets as Scott Schmidt and others have reported can work loose
in high winds.
In looking in the ACS catalogue I see structural machine screws (NAS600-603
,
page 93) which have a far greater tensile strength than the rivets.
Unfortunately there is no rating for shear strength which I would think is
more important. What type of screws have those who have replaced the rivet
s
used??
Has anyone approached Vans w/regards to this substitute, as the prototype
has them??
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder stops |
I don't think you have to get too worried about the shear spec
of the screws you use. You just need to get something
that is more resistant than the aluminum rivets. So any steel
screw will do. I'd try to put one that you can use the
smooth upper part of the screw through the material, where
the grip just starts as you get outside the rudder blocks.
Put a washer or two on it to guarantee you get it tight
and don't bottom on the shoulder.
The fact is, if you beat the thing up so bad that a steel
screw is going to shear, the rudder stop material itself
is probably going to break anyway, and you'll break an
ear off. So the screw themselves really aren't a big
worry.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I'm just about to fasten the rudder stops(R-1007B's) to the lower rudder
> hinge bracket(VS-1010) and have decided to use bolts as opposed to the
> AN470AD4-6 rivets as Scott Schmidt and others have reported can work
> loose in high winds.
>
> In looking in the ACS catalogue I see structural machine screws
> (NAS600-603, page 93) which have a far greater tensile strength than the
> rivets. Unfortunately there is no rating for shear strength which I
> would think is more important. What type of screws have those who have
> replaced the rivets used??
>
> Has anyone approached Vans w/regards to this substitute, as the
> prototype has them??
>
> Thx, Rick
> #40956
> Southampton, Ont.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | another data point |
At 40G at 6000 MSL and 80 F and 2400 pounds. We landed Runway 19 and easily
turned off at the 1700 ft insectiing runway/taxiway mark. On departure the
ground run was about 1000 ft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder stops |
Also, if the threaded part goes through the other bracket, even with
nut between the brackets, you are working, at least partially, in
double sheer.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I don't think you have to get too worried about the shear spec
> of the screws you use. You just need to get something
> that is more resistant than the aluminum rivets. So any steel
> screw will do. I'd try to put one that you can use the
> smooth upper part of the screw through the material, where
> the grip just starts as you get outside the rudder blocks.
> Put a washer or two on it to guarantee you get it tight
> and don't bottom on the shoulder.
>
> The fact is, if you beat the thing up so bad that a steel
> screw is going to shear, the rudder stop material itself
> is probably going to break anyway, and you'll break an
> ear off. So the screw themselves really aren't a big
> worry.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
>
>
> Sandra & Rick Lark wrote:
>> >
>> Hi all.
>> I'm just about to fasten the rudder stops(R-1007B's) to the lower
>> rudder hinge bracket(VS-1010) and have decided to use bolts as
>> opposed to the
>> AN470AD4-6 rivets as Scott Schmidt and others have reported can
>> work loose in high winds.
>> In looking in the ACS catalogue I see structural machine screws
>> (NAS600-603, page 93) which have a far greater tensile strength
>> than the rivets. Unfortunately there is no rating for shear
>> strength which I would think is more important. What type of
>> screws have those who have replaced the rivets used??
>> Has anyone approached Vans w/regards to this substitute, as the
>> prototype has them??
>> Thx, Rick
>> #40956
>> Southampton, Ont.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side.... |
Hi
Over the past few weeks I have been working on my canopy and doors.
I have experienced a wide range of emotions when dealing with the doors
'
mostly frustration! The doors seemed to be designed to test the will to
build and our ability to persevere.
As part of the process I have studied the usual websites to see what
others
have done and trolled the archives for any hints and tips that might be
useful. Here are some of the things that I did (or wish I had done the
first time through) to get to doors that actually work.
When reading this, note that I used the Rivethead door blocks and the
McMaster Carr door seals which mount on the canopy opening and not on
the
door. I also installed Steve DeNieri=92s flush handles and locks.
What I did
1. Trimmed the door halves oversize prior to bonding. The index
holes
didn=92t match so bonding alignment was a concern. So was having enough
material to allow clamping to the canopy while curing.
2. When bonding the door halves I followed the plans to a T. It
turns
out that most of the door edges get removed so it is important to have
lots
close in to the inside edge of the flanges. I ended up with several
areas of
delamination. I found that it was possible to inject epoxy into
delaminated
areas using a large bore hypo. The entire bottom edge of one door
delaminated which strangely enough made repair easier.
3. The rear index holes didn=92t match so door alignment relative
to the
door sill was a problem. It was possible that the inner door half could
sit
too low in the openings and not have reasonable clearance from the
sills.
Without correction, this might result in the doors sitting on the bottom
of
the door sill. To ensure consistent spacing between the door and the
door
sill, I taped stacks of popsicle sticks (3 in each) onto the bottom of
the
door sill. The inner door sat on these during the bonding process.
4. The popsicle stick spacers also remained in place when during
the
initial door trim especially on the door top. I didn=92t want to
inadvertently
trim the door to short buy taking too much off the top. The doors were
left
a little long until the hinges were installed.
5. The initial fit objective was to get the doors flush in the
opening
with only a tiny gap all the way round.
6. The Rivethead door blocks were installed on the canopy
fibreglass
door posts
7. After the hinges and door blocks were installed considerable
time
was spent getting the doors pins open / close easily. After door seals
were
installed, I got to do this all over again.
8. Using washers as shims between the hinge and the canopy can
change
the gap between the canopy door post and the door. I used washers on an
aft
door hinges to slightly raise the height of the aft side of the door
which
in turn increased the forward gap between the door post and the door.
9. During latching the doors move fore / aft depending on which
door
pin contacts the door first and which has more friction. This in turn
moves
the door in the frame and changes the fore / aft gaps between the door
and
he canopy. A shim in the door opening between the canopy and the door
prevents this shift during fitting. Uncorrected, this was going to be a
problem.
10. The door seals caused the bottom of the doors to be pushed out
which in
turn resulted in the considerable pressure being required (on the
outside of
the door) to close the door enough for the door pins to engage.
11. I found the once the door seals were more than =BD compressed, the
resistive force on the doors increased significantly. By removing more
material from the outside of the canopy opening, I was able to reduce
the
seal compression and get an easier to close door. This was especially
true
of the canopy door posts.
12. What made a *huge* difference in getting the doors to close easily
was
pushing the canopy door sill inboard by about 1/8=94 This moved the seal
that
contacts the bottom of the door inboard and took most of outward
pressure
off the bottom of the door.
13. I floxed the nylon guide blocks on the fire/aft edges of the doors
so
that they were flush with the inner door perimeter. Consequently they
interfered with the previously installed Rivethead door blocks. To
correct,
the canopy door posts were notched to allow the Rivethead blocks to
mount
directly on the aluminum door posts and thereby provide clearance for
the
door. I shimmed the Rivethead blocks so that there was minimal clearance
between the doors and the blocks. This ensures that the doors remain
correctly aligned within the door opening. See #9.
14. Once the door pins engaged the Rivethead door block, it still took
some
effort to fully engage the pins. There were several factors that added
to
the effort:
* There is a lot of internal friction the Van=92s ratchet
mechanism.
Application of white grease made operation *much* easier
* White grease on the door pins reduced the effort required to
latch
the doors.
* There is a slight bow on the door. The long door pin should
have a
slight curve to ensure it does not bind against the in side of the door
* The further the door pins go into the door blocks, the greater
the
closing effort required. I reduced mine so that the only extend about
=BC=94
through the aluminum door posts.
* The more pressure required to push the door in place so the
pins
can engage, the more effort required to close the door
* If the door perimeter contacts the canopy anywhere, the effort
required to close the door will increase.
What I would do differently
* When bonding the door halves, use considerable more epoxy &
flox
on the door perimeter especially close to the inner edge of the flanges
to
be bonded.
* Pay more attention to the curves on the door pins (especially
the
long ones). One of the pins was binding on the door interior thus
increasing
the effort required to latch the door.
* Grease the ratcheting mechanism before starting the door fit.
A
lot of the door stiffness comes from the door mechanisms. When trying to
adjust the fit, it would have beneficial to have the stiffness out of
the
equation as it was sometime difficult to know what was causing the fit
problems.
* Install the door seals prior to doing the initial door fit.
* Pay more attention to where the door seals are being
compressed
too much when closing the door PRIOR to trimming the inside of the
canopy
flange. (In some places, I had to build up the inside of the canopy
flange
as I had to take more off the outside of the flange. To reduce door
compression.
* Flox the fore and aft door pin guides when building the doors
* Install the Rivethead door blocks directly on the aluminum
door
posts rather than first fitting on the canopy.
* Shim the Rivethead door blocks to ensure door alignment when
fitting the doors
Then end result of this is I can now close and latch both doors with
only
one finger of pressure on the inside door handle with only one finger of
pressure on the outside of the bottom of the door.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' Living in a f/g world
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
| From: | "BGS" <Brian.Steeves(at)Parkenna.com> |
I am modifying my rudder for rudder trim with a trim tab fit into the rudder.
Not that everything is in and mounted, I am having some clearance problems with
the push rod hitting the outer skin and flare.
As it sits now, the servo can travel a little over half an inch but the actual
travel is 7/8 for the T2-7A Servo.
When the push rod is pushed it ends up hitting the outer rudder skin, when it is
pulled it hits the flare.
I am attaching a couple of pictures to help better understand my rambling and horrible
description.
So my question is, can anybody give me some ideas on how get full travel of the
servo without the push rod hitting the skin or flare (hopefully with out boring
the hole out to much).
For more detailed pictures you can see them on my builders log at http://www.briansrv10.com/Rudder_Trim.php
Appreciate any help you can give.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260401#260401
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_trim_help_002_545.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_trim_help_001_294.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Gaps between Weld-On 10 and Window |
I took the plunge yesterday and bonded the window in to the left side
door. I peeled the tape off today and found significant gaps between
the weld-on and the window... particularly along the curved vertical
edges. In hindsight, it was obviously too hot to be doing this work
yesterday... my shop is at the base of the mountains near JPL where
the fires have been raging for the past few days and, though it is air
conditioned, was probably about 85% inside. The weld-on just set up
too quickly.
I'm thinking of drilling a few small holes and injecting epoxy in to
fill the gaps. Has anyone gone down this road before? Is there a
better way to fix this, shy of replacing the whole thing?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Singin those Weld-on 10 blues...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill DeRouchey <billderou(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: another data point |
David-
Sorry I missed you. We had four RV's from Prescott at the Valle fly-in.
Bill
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, David McNeill wrote:
From: David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10-List: another data point
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 10:43 AM
At 40G at 6000 MSL and 80 F and 2400 pounds. We landed Runway 19 and easily turned
off at the 1700 ft insectiing runway/taxiway mark. On departure the ground
run was about 1000 ft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | another data point |
we departed about 0900; arrived about 0640. We left FFZ about 0556 , running
LOP about 55% power and caught a friend's 172 in the pattern at 40G after he
departed FFZ at 0530. The APRS track worked until about 1500 AGL in the 40G
area. The last hit was at 7300 MSL
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: another data point
David-
Sorry I missed you. We had four RV's from Prescott at the Valle fly-in.
Bill
--- On Sat, 8/29/09, David McNeill wrote:
From: David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV10-List: another data point
Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 10:43 AM
At 40G at 6000 MSL and 80 F and 2400 pounds. We landed Runway 19 and easily
turned off at the 1700 ft insectiing runway/taxiway mark. On departure the
ground run was about 1000 ft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
>From an old modeler, if you move the clevis down closer to the airfoil you will
have more clearance and need less throw for the same deflection.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260436#260436
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side.... |
Yes the doors are tons of fun. I have about 80 hours in mine at this poi
nt and probably about another 15 to go but they are very nice. For me the
weather seal caused interference in the first third of the frame from the t
op. No problem on the bottom. The McMaster Carr weather stripping is nice
but it does add a considerable amount of work to the doors in order to get
it to fit well on the frame. I had to build up the inside of the frame a
fair amount with flox before I could take the lip down to an acceptable amo
unt and make the weather strip fit right. I also cut the little lip that i
s on the inside of the trim out. I also picked up some of the same trim wi
th =BC" instead of the 3/16" that everyone has been getting. It tends to f
it much better in the bulky areas of the cabin top but it does make for an
extra 1/16" to account for.
Which actually brings me to another thing. Before deciding to go with th
e door frame weather stripping method I picked up some of the door weather
stripping from Alex D. This is the stuff that conforms to the door better
than the stock stuff from Van. I don't need it now so if anyone is going w
ith the stock method and wants to use this instead, I'll save you a couple
bucks and sell you mine for $60 shipped. Just drop me an email. You can s
ee them here:
http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/products_pics.html#DoorSeal
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side....
Hi
Over the past few weeks I have been working on my canopy and doors.
I have experienced a wide range of emotions when dealing with the doors - m
ostly frustration! The doors seemed to be designed to test the will to buil
d and our ability to persevere.
As part of the process I have studied the usual websites to see what others
have done and trolled the archives for any hints and tips that might be us
eful. Here are some of the things that I did (or wish I had done the first
time through) to get to doors that actually work.
When reading this, note that I used the Rivethead door blocks and the McMas
ter Carr door seals which mount on the canopy opening and not on the door.
I also installed Steve DeNieri's flush handles and locks.
What I did
1. Trimmed the door halves oversize prior to bonding. The index holes
didn't match so bonding alignment was a concern. So was having enough mater
ial to allow clamping to the canopy while curing.
2. When bonding the door halves I followed the plans to a T. It turns
out that most of the door edges get removed so it is important to have lots
close in to the inside edge of the flanges. I ended up with several areas
of delamination. I found that it was possible to inject epoxy into delamina
ted areas using a large bore hypo. The entire bottom edge of one door delam
inated which strangely enough made repair easier.
3. The rear index holes didn't match so door alignment relative to the
door sill was a problem. It was possible that the inner door half could si
t too low in the openings and not have reasonable clearance from the sills.
Without correction, this might result in the doors sitting on the bottom o
f the door sill. To ensure consistent spacing between the door and the door
sill, I taped stacks of popsicle sticks (3 in each) onto the bottom of the
door sill. The inner door sat on these during the bonding process.
4. The popsicle stick spacers also remained in place when during the i
nitial door trim especially on the door top. I didn't want to inadvertently
trim the door to short buy taking too much off the top. The doors were lef
t a little long until the hinges were installed.
5. The initial fit objective was to get the doors flush in the opening
with only a tiny gap all the way round.
6. The Rivethead door blocks were installed on the canopy fibreglass d
oor posts
7. After the hinges and door blocks were installed considerable time w
as spent getting the doors pins open / close easily. After door seals were
installed, I got to do this all over again.
8. Using washers as shims between the hinge and the canopy can change
the gap between the canopy door post and the door. I used washers on an aft
door hinges to slightly raise the height of the aft side of the door which
in turn increased the forward gap between the door post and the door.
9. During latching the doors move fore / aft depending on which door p
in contacts the door first and which has more friction. This in turn moves
the door in the frame and changes the fore / aft gaps between the door and
he canopy. A shim in the door opening between the canopy and the door preve
nts this shift during fitting. Uncorrected, this was going to be a problem.
10. The door seals caused the bottom of the doors to be pushed out which i
n turn resulted in the considerable pressure being required (on the outside
of the door) to close the door enough for the door pins to engage.
11. I found the once the door seals were more than =BD compressed, the res
istive force on the doors increased significantly. By removing more materia
l from the outside of the canopy opening, I was able to reduce the seal com
pression and get an easier to close door. This was especially true of the c
anopy door posts.
12. What made a *huge* difference in getting the doors to close easily was
pushing the canopy door sill inboard by about 1/8" This moved the seal tha
t contacts the bottom of the door inboard and took most of outward pressure
off the bottom of the door.
13. I floxed the nylon guide blocks on the fire/aft edges of the doors so
that they were flush with the inner door perimeter. Consequently they inter
fered with the previously installed Rivethead door blocks. To correct, the
canopy door posts were notched to allow the Rivethead blocks to mount dire
ctly on the aluminum door posts and thereby provide clearance for the door.
I shimmed the Rivethead blocks so that there was minimal clearance between
the doors and the blocks. This ensures that the doors remain correctly ali
gned within the door opening. See #9.
14. Once the door pins engaged the Rivethead door block, it still took som
e effort to fully engage the pins. There were several factors that added to
the effort:
=B7 There is a lot of internal friction the Van's ratchet mechanism
. Application of white grease made operation *much* easier
=B7 White grease on the door pins reduced the effort required to la
tch the doors.
=B7 There is a slight bow on the door. The long door pin should hav
e a slight curve to ensure it does not bind against the in side of the door
=B7 The further the door pins go into the door blocks, the greater
the closing effort required. I reduced mine so that the only extend about
=BC" through the aluminum door posts.
=B7 The more pressure required to push the door in place so the pin
s can engage, the more effort required to close the door
=B7 If the door perimeter contacts the canopy anywhere, the effort
required to close the door will increase.
What I would do differently
=B7 When bonding the door halves, use considerable more epoxy & flo
x on the door perimeter especially close to the inner edge of the flanges t
o be bonded.
=B7 Pay more attention to the curves on the door pins (especially t
he long ones). One of the pins was binding on the door interior thus increa
sing the effort required to latch the door.
=B7 Grease the ratcheting mechanism before starting the door fit. A
lot of the door stiffness comes from the door mechanisms. When trying to a
djust the fit, it would have beneficial to have the stiffness out of the eq
uation as it was sometime difficult to know what was causing the fit proble
ms.
=B7 Install the door seals prior to doing the initial door fit.
=B7 Pay more attention to where the door seals are being compressed
too much when closing the door PRIOR to trimming the inside of the canopy
flange. (In some places, I had to build up the inside of the canopy flange
as I had to take more off the outside of the flange. To reduce door compres
sion.
=B7 Flox the fore and aft door pin guides when building the doors
=B7 Install the Rivethead door blocks directly on the aluminum door
posts rather than first fitting on the canopy.
=B7 Shim the Rivethead door blocks to ensure door alignment when fi
tting the doors
Then end result of this is I can now close and latch both doors with only o
ne finger of pressure on the inside door handle with only one finger of pre
ssure on the outside of the bottom of the door.
Cheers
Les
#40643 - Living in a f/g world
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
| From: | "Ron B." <cfxoa(at)klis.com> |
I think if you move the servo closer to the trim arm it may help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260451#260451
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gaps between Weld-On 10 and Window |
| From: | "Ron B." <cfxoa(at)klis.com> |
I had acceptable bonding on my windscreen but knew I could inject some epoxy to
fill the space without drilling , so I went ahead and filled the gap. Worked
well for me. I had used weld-on for the initial bonding, but had none uncured
left. I doubt I would drill the plexy but would drill a small hole in the cabin
epoxy and use a syringe.
Ron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260452#260452
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hertner <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grab Handles |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hertner <effectus(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Upper Dash Covering and Instrument Fairing |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
| From: | "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> |
You might consider going to your local hobby shop. There are many different rod
ends available for RC airplanes. Your call if you want to use those parts in
this application, but it might lend some ideas.
Thansk, Jason Kreidler
N44Thanks Flying #40617
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elsner, Jason Kreidler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260485#260485
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Upper Dash Covering and Instrument Fairing |
| From: | "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> |
That looks awesome! Nice idea on the fairing, nice work, congrats.
What a great place to hide those 'hockey puck' GPS antennas.
Jason Kreidler
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260486#260486
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gaps between Weld-On 10 and Window |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I had the same problem. I filled the gaps with epoxy in a syringe. Once the outside
fiberglass is done, nobody will ever know....
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260511#260511
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> |
I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/C installation.
Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
To those who've done it, would you do it again?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
| From: | "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com> |
Deems
When you are in Branson, I would love to get a look at your airplane.
We are a little West of there.
We are doing some vacation in Oct. so it may not work out.
--
Brent Humphreys
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering
????
Branson MO? We've got a couple of days @ a time share reserved there
sometime in OCT
Deems
orchidman wrote:
>
> After I get my plane back from the paint shop I want to start looking
for a good airport in the Ozarks (Eastern OK, Western AR, and MO)
> That would put it within a -10 tank of gas for everyone within the
circle from TX, NM, the Dakotas, WI, OH, and GA which would be most of
the central US.
> I am sure others can do it for the western and eastern areas also.
> Come in on a Saturday and leave by noon on Sunday.
>
> --------
> Gary Blankenbiller
> RV10 - # 40674
> (N2GB Flying)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259963#259963
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
| From: | "Don Orrick" <don.orrick(at)yahoo.com> |
Myron,
I have the Airflow Systems A/C system on my RV-10. I would absolutely do it again.
The system was straight forward to install and works great. The RV-10 has
a lot of glass for the sun to heat the plane up. taxing in and out of the airport
is where it really makes a big difference in hot weather, the three speed
fan is nice and can be used to blow air only without the A/C compressor running.
Bill Genevro is very easy to work with and will stand behind his product. The
system adds 40 lbs. to the empty weight and only moves the CG aft about 3/8'
also it is a 12 volt system. In terms of speed loss due to the system I can't
tell you since the system has been on the plane since day one. Just an observation
but if you live in Arizona.... Yea, you want one of these!
Don Orrick
N410JA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260538#260538
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ???? |
| From: | "Brent P. Humphreys" <bhumphreys(at)stonetek.com> |
If you decide on Gaston's we are pretty near there. You can come
inspect my project.
--
Brent Humphreys
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of orchidman
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Olsons great getaway writeup - A Gathering ????
I now have 3 locations to examine.
I assume that we need to evaluate parking, air camping, hotels, food and
any gathering area plus what else?
--------
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260051#260051
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and
in my head.
Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer to ground everything back to a block.
Here is where I think I'm headed.
1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward
to the firewall.
a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side of
the firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this spot.
b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF
items to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
left wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat, Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
right wing tip and install a Forest.
a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the right side.
4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
"Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics.
NAV, Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end up aft of the baggage compartment.
How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a
pain to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
Perry, Phil wrote:
> Im in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and
> in my head.
>
>
>
> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
> dont like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
> prefer to ground everything back to a block.
>
>
>
> Here is where I think Im headed.
>
>
>
> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward
> to the firewall.
>
> a. Attach this line to a Forest of Tab on the interior side of
> the firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
> this spot.
My only comment would be to mount the 'forest of tabs' on the sub-panel
where it's access is better than the firewall. You never know when
you'll add something!
>
> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF
> items to the Forest of Tab on the FWF side.
>
> c. Ill also ground the crank case at this point too.
>
> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
> left wing tip and install a Forest out there too..
>
> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
> heat, Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc
>
> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>
> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
> the right side.
>
> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
> Forest of Tabs located beside the battery box.
>
> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics.
> NAV, Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
> that end up aft of the baggage compartment.
I can't really find anything 'wrong' with doing things this way with the
exception of electronic AHRS and Compass mounted back there. They
should have a ground wire going back to the ground point of your
electronics. The ground potential COULD be different and cause
problems, but for strobes and lamps etc. I see no reason not to use a
forest of tabs here.
>
>
>
> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a
> pain to chase down, so thats the reason Im really wanting to spend the
> time designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
You pretty much have your grounding system laid out like mine is.
Linn
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
I have been flying with the Flightline AC system for 8 months in
Florida. Very happy with the system and cannot imagine being without
it. As Don Orrick notes, being able to have AC while taxiing is
really nice. We also have the Vertical Power Climate Control System
and it works great. Being able to run the cabin fan without the
compressor on is desirable, and Vertical Power is still working on
that. When we were building this airplane up in Minnesota, my wife
was not sure we needed to put in AC, even though we knew we were
moving south. She said "being hot and sweaty is just part of the
light airplane experience". She has officially changed her tune and
is really glad we installed AC.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:23 PM, woxofswa wrote:
I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/C
installation.
Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
To those who've done it, would you do it again?
Thanks in advance.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Phil,
Some thoughts:
1. The only thing on the engine that needs a hefty ground is the
starter. Run your ground wire from the same bolt that goes through the
firewall to the nice ground lug on the starter (a number #4 wire works
well). On the same starter ground lug do a jumper (like a ground strap or
perhaps a piece of #6 wire) to the mounting bolts on the alternator. This
way you have an excellent ground path for both the starter and the
alternator.
2. I plan on two Odyssey PC625 batteries in my RV-10 (that is what I'm
running in my 8A). These will be enable split bus operation in the event of
a failure of one side or the other. If you plan on split power supplies,
keep in mind a single ground wire that connect both battery grounds to a
single point defeats the purpose of having redundant power supplies. Run a
single common #2 or #4 wire that connects both battery grounds to the
firewall bolt discussed above (this is the starter ground and half of the
panel ground). Run another #10 wire ground from both batteries to another
"forest of tabs" on the firewall. Split the panel ground paths between them
consistent with how you are splitting the power distribution. The objective
is to not allow a single failure point (the firewall ground lug) take down
your entire panel.
3. Typically a single #14 ground wire is sufficient as a common ground
for each wing. You may want to run another #14 ground to the pitot heat if
it draws a lot of current. Ground these on the same firewall lug that you
have the starter on (on the cabin side). You don't need a forest of tabs in
the wing, just solder pigtails onto the single #14 wire that go to each
component. Do the same type of pigtail for all tail cone grounds.
Carl\
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and in
my head.
Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would prefer
to ground everything back to a block.
Here is where I think I'm headed.
1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward to
the firewall.
a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side of the
firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to this
spot.
b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF items
to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the left
wing tip and install a Forest out there too...
a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot heat,
Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc..
3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
right wing tip and install a Forest.
a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on the
right side.
4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
"Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics. NAV,
Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices that end
up aft of the baggage compartment.
How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a pain
to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the time
designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
Thanks,
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I think I see what you're saying Carl.
You're basically suggesting that I ground everything to the forest of
tabs behind the panel, but make a heavier run to each wingtip and ground
to those. Basically a start topology... Right?
Phil
From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Phil,
Some thoughts:
1. The only thing on the engine that needs a hefty ground is the
starter. Run your ground wire from the same bolt that goes through the
firewall to the nice ground lug on the starter (a number #4 wire works
well). On the same starter ground lug do a jumper (like a ground strap
or perhaps a piece of #6 wire) to the mounting bolts on the alternator.
This way you have an excellent ground path for both the starter and the
alternator.
2. I plan on two Odyssey PC625 batteries in my RV-10 (that is what
I'm running in my 8A). These will be enable split bus operation in the
event of a failure of one side or the other. If you plan on split power
supplies, keep in mind a single ground wire that connect both battery
grounds to a single point defeats the purpose of having redundant power
supplies. Run a single common #2 or #4 wire that connects both
battery grounds to the firewall bolt discussed above (this is the
starter ground and half of the panel ground). Run another #10 wire
ground from both batteries to another "forest of tabs" on the firewall.
Split the panel ground paths between them consistent with how you are
splitting the power distribution. The objective is to not allow a
single failure point (the firewall ground lug) take down your entire
panel.
3. Typically a single #14 ground wire is sufficient as a common
ground for each wing. You may want to run another #14 ground to the
pitot heat if it draws a lot of current. Ground these on the same
firewall lug that you have the starter on (on the cabin side). You
don't need a forest of tabs in the wing, just solder pigtails onto the
single #14 wire that go to each component. Do the same type of pigtail
for all tail cone grounds.
Carl\
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and
in my head.
Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer to ground everything back to a block.
Here is where I think I'm headed.
1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward
to the firewall.
a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side of
the firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this spot.
b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF
items to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
left wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat, Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
right wing tip and install a Forest.
a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the right side.
4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
"Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics.
NAV, Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end up aft of the baggage compartment.
How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a
pain to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
Thanks,
Phil
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
DAVE, I TOO HAVE THE SAME A/C SYSTEM. IT DOES NOT GET CHILLY IN THE
CABIN ENGAGED ON A HOT CORPUS CHRISTI DAY, BUT IT KEEPS ME FROM
FRYING. HOW LOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM TAKE YOU. I GET ABOUT 20 DEGREES DROP
FROM AMBIENT OUT THE VENTS. ROBERT I KNOW, I LEFT MY CAPS ON.
On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:14 PM, David Maib wrote:
> I have been flying with the Flightline AC system for 8 months in
> Florida. Very happy with the system and cannot imagine being without
> it. As Don Orrick notes, being able to have AC while taxiing is
> really nice. We also have the Vertical Power Climate Control System
> and it works great. Being able to run the cabin fan without the
> compressor on is desirable, and Vertical Power is still working on
> that. When we were building this airplane up in Minnesota, my wife
> was not sure we needed to put in AC, even though we knew we were
> moving south. She said "being hot and sweaty is just part of the
> light airplane experience". She has officially changed her tune and
> is really glad we installed AC.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> Flying
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:23 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
>
> I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/
> C installation.
>
> Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
>
> Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
>
> To those who've done it, would you do it again?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
>
>
> nbsp; - The RV10-List Email Forum href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ">http://www.matronics--> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -Matt
> Dralle, href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co==================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
| From: | Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> |
Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
> Im in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and in
> my head.
>
>
> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
> dont like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would prefer
> to ground everything back to a block.
>
>
> Here is where I think Im headed.
>
>
> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward to
> the firewall.
>
> a. Attach this line to a Forest of Tab on the interior side of the
> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to this
> spot.
>
> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF items
> to the Forest of Tab on the FWF side.
>
> c. Ill also ground the crank case at this point too.
>
> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the left
> wing tip and install a Forest out there too..
>
> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot heat,
> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc
>
> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>
> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on the
> right side.
>
> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
> Forest of Tabs located beside the battery box.
>
> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics. NAV,
> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices that end
> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>
>
> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a pain
> to chase down, so thats the reason Im really wanting to spend the time
> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
>
>
--
Rob Kermanj
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A kid.. Really?? |
| From: | "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> |
Phil,
Congratulations! You are about to embark on the most rewarding and challenging
adventure in your life. You have no idea, but that little 7 lb bundle will be
the center of your universe for quite a while. It is a journey worth doing
well.
Building a RV-10 and fatherhood are not totally incompatible, but you should expect
the airplane to take a serious back seat. If you want to keep them, then
the family will have to come first. I started my RV-6 in 1992 when my 2 daughters
were 7 and 9. Working on the 6 was my hobby and stress reliever, but the
family always came first. Result: 8 years and 3 months to build.
My advice is to keep building but make it a low second priority. The kit will
wait, forget about completion schedules, and just look at building as an alternative
to golf or television.
--------
Dave Moore
RV-6 flying
RV-10 QB - cabin top/fiberglass hell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260696#260696
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
>> Im in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I really
>> dont like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think Im headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a Forest of Tab on the interior side of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all FWF items
>> to the Forest of Tab on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. Ill also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too..
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
>> Forest of Tabs located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be a pain
>> to chase down, so thats the reason Im really wanting to spend the time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
Bout 3-4 years ago I heard one of the electronic gurus speak at Osh. At
that lecture he did recommend couple grounds from the engine to the
airframe. He has several stories of hard starting engines with
inadequate grounds. I don't remember him saying that you had to run a
separate ground back for all the other devices (again complexity/vs wt
savings). In trying to get adequate starter power for my engine, I
have run a separate ground from the starter back to a common post on the
firewall. The post then has a number 4 wire back to the battery. I
switched out my skytec starter for a B&C starter and I think I have
solved my starter problems. I'd recommend that if you have a higher
compression engine you consider starting out with a B&C starter.
Dr Fred.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for
> "sensitive" electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter,
> battery, landing light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through
> the aluminum airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices
> just adds complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt
> you will find any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy
> loads. If you still decide to go with separate ground leads for
> lighting and pitot heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot
> lead to reduce magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
>
> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
>> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
>> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
>> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
>> wrote:
>>> Im in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
>>> and in
>>> my head.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
>>> really
>>> dont like the idea of routing current through the airframe and
>>> would prefer
>>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is where I think Im headed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
>>> forward to
>>> the firewall.
>>>
>>> a. Attach this line to a Forest of Tab on the interior side
>>> of the
>>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to this
>>> spot.
>>>
>>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
>>> FWF items
>>> to the Forest of Tab on the FWF side.
>>>
>>> c. Ill also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>>
>>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
>>> the left
>>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too..
>>>
>>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing,
>>> Pitot heat,
>>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc
>>>
>>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to the
>>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>>
>>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items
>>> on the
>>> right side.
>>>
>>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to a
>>> Forest of Tabs located beside the battery box.
>>>
>>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
>>> electronics. NAV,
>>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
>>> that end
>>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can
>>> be a pain
>>> to chase down, so thats the reason Im really wanting to spend the
>>> time
>>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
Robert,
I have not measured the drop from ambient, but I would guess 20
degrees is about right. I talked to John Strain at Flightline AC a
couple of months ago and mentioned that I did not think the "High"
cabin fan position put out as much air as I expected it to. He said
that the cabin fan actually has four positions. Lo, medium, medium
hi, and hi. The individual that wired the units for Flightline AC
made a command decision and wired the bottom three for the Flightline
installation. So, I really only have Lo, medium, and medium hi. I
don't know if John has corrected that on recent kits. I plan to have
John help me rewire it one of these days when we get out to Oregon.
He tells me it is not a difficult job, but getting to the area will
be difficult. However, I installed access panels on each side of the
upper forward tailcone, so I do have some AC access.
=EF=BC
Best regards,
David Maib
On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:57 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
DAVE, I TOO HAVE THE SAME A/C SYSTEM. IT DOES NOT GET CHILLY IN THE
CABIN ENGAGED ON A HOT CORPUS CHRISTI DAY, BUT IT KEEPS ME FROM
FRYING. HOW LOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM TAKE YOU. I GET ABOUT 20 DEGREES
DROP FROM AMBIENT OUT THE VENTS. ROBERT I KNOW, I LEFT MY CAPS ON.
On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:14 PM, David Maib wrote:
> I have been flying with the Flightline AC system for 8 months in
> Florida. Very happy with the system and cannot imagine being
> without it. As Don Orrick notes, being able to have AC while
> taxiing is really nice. We also have the Vertical Power Climate
> Control System and it works great. Being able to run the cabin fan
> without the compressor on is desirable, and Vertical Power is still
> working on that. When we were building this airplane up in
> Minnesota, my wife was not sure we needed to put in AC, even though
> we knew we were moving south. She said "being hot and sweaty is
> just part of the light airplane experience". She has officially
> changed her tune and is really glad we installed AC.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> Flying
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:23 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
>
> I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/
> C installation.
>
> Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
>
> Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
>
> To those who've done it, would you do it again?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
>
>
> nbsp; - The RV10-List Email Forum href="http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics-->
> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -Matt
> Dralle, href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/co==================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
Sorry about the size of that photo in my previous post. I intended to
resize it before sending, but somehow missed it.
David Maib
40559
flying
On Aug 31, 2009, at 9:47 PM, David Maib wrote:
Robert,
I have not measured the drop from ambient, but I would guess 20
degrees is about right. I talked to John Strain at Flightline AC a
couple of months ago and mentioned that I did not think the "High"
cabin fan position put out as much air as I expected it to. He said
that the cabin fan actually has four positions. Lo, medium, medium
hi, and hi. The individual that wired the units for Flightline AC
made a command decision and wired the bottom three for the Flightline
installation. So, I really only have Lo, medium, and medium hi. I
don't know if John has corrected that on recent kits. I plan to have
John help me rewire it one of these days when we get out to Oregon.
He tells me it is not a difficult job, but getting to the area will
be difficult. However, I installed access panels on each side of the
upper forward tailcone, so I do have some AC access.
Best regards,
David Maib
On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:57 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
DAVE, I TOO HAVE THE SAME A/C SYSTEM. IT DOES NOT GET CHILLY IN THE
CABIN ENGAGED ON A HOT CORPUS CHRISTI DAY, BUT IT KEEPS ME FROM
FRYING. HOW LOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM TAKE YOU. I GET ABOUT 20 DEGREES
DROP FROM AMBIENT OUT THE VENTS. ROBERT I KNOW, I LEFT MY CAPS ON.
On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:14 PM, David Maib wrote:
> I have been flying with the Flightline AC system for 8 months in
> Florida. Very happy with the system and cannot imagine being
> without it. As Don Orrick notes, being able to have AC while
> taxiing is really nice. We also have the Vertical Power Climate
> Control System and it works great. Being able to run the cabin fan
> without the compressor on is desirable, and Vertical Power is still
> working on that. When we were building this airplane up in
> Minnesota, my wife was not sure we needed to put in AC, even though
> we knew we were moving south. She said "being hot and sweaty is
> just part of the light airplane experience". She has officially
> changed her tune and is really glad we installed AC.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> Flying
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:23 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>
>
> I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/
> C installation.
>
> Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
>
> Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
>
> To those who've done it, would you do it again?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------
> Myron Nelson
> Mesa, AZ
> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
>
>
> nbsp; - The RV10-List Email Forum href="http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics-->
> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -Matt
> Dralle, href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/co==================
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Gaps between Weld-On 10 and Window |
Hi Jeff=2C
Don't know if anyone responded to your email. Things to test before going y
our route. Does fresh Weld On 10 bond to previously cured Weld On 10. Also
=2C you are going to lay fiberglass over the outside gap between cabin top
and window. You might consider channeling around this area so that you can
use say laminations of 9 oz satin weave as apposed to a single lamination.
Also consider how you will finish the the inside junction between cabin and
window. I went the cheap route and caulked the gap in with fuel tank seala
nt by mixing it and then putting it in a large syringe and going around the
channel/gap/ledge. It is a little difficult to get a nice result and clean
up will need to be done with alcohol.
Also know that if you use this sealant=2C you will not be able to work insi
de the plane say two weeks as it will stink as it is curing. A shop with gr
eat ventilation would be a different story. I used this sealant based on bo
nding characteristic and color. My inside cabin top is black/dark grey Zola
tone.
Just food for thought
JOhn
> From: jeff(at)westcottpress.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Gaps between Weld-On 10 and Window
> Date: Sat=2C 29 Aug 2009 17:20:57 -0700
>
>
> I took the plunge yesterday and bonded the window in to the left side
> door. I peeled the tape off today and found significant gaps between
> the weld-on and the window... particularly along the curved vertical
> edges. In hindsight=2C it was obviously too hot to be doing this work
> yesterday... my shop is at the base of the mountains near JPL where
> the fires have been raging for the past few days and=2C though it is air
> conditioned=2C was probably about 85% inside. The weld-on just set up
> too quickly.
>
> I'm thinking of drilling a few small holes and injecting epoxy in to
> fill the gaps. Has anyone gone down this road before? Is there a
> better way to fix this=2C shy of replacing the whole thing?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Singin those Weld-on 10 blues...
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
I was looking at the Firewall Forward kit and was looking at what
modifications people made in the past.
The hose kit is really really confusing. Prices are all over the map. As
far as I see, Van's prices have been sharply reduced. Aircrafthose.com's
prices have been sharply increased since William Curtis's email below -
just 20 days ago. Are hoses tied to the stock market indices to explain
the volatility?
I called aircrafthose.com today and these are the prices quoted to me.
$596 for 7 hoses
$556 without VA-119
Hmm, that's interesting. Okay, let me check Van's prices. This is from
their online catalog:
*PART NUMBER* *TYPE OF LINE* *LENGTH &
DIAMETER* *PRICE* *Qty* *Shopping Cart*
VA-119 MANIFOLD PRESSURE 21.50"x1/4" $17.00
VA-102 FUEL PRESSURE 15.50"x1/4" $15.50
VA-133 OIL PRESSURE 27.25"x1/4" $18.25
VA-135 OIL COOLER 16.50"x1/2" $64.40
VA-190 OIL COOLER 27.00"x1/2" $97.65
VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY 14.00"x3/8" $63.30
VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 25.50"x3/8" $100.50
Van's total is now only $376 from $545 in William's email below. Thus,
it's now much less of an easy decision. Are the upgraded hoses worth
paying 50% more than Van's prices?
Also, aircrafthose.com told me only 1 buyer in August and previously a
buyer in May for the rv-10 hoses, so not many people went this route it
seems.
FYI,
Jae
40533
W. Curtis wrote:
> RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage.
> Having not ordered the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning
> ahead, I've looked at the plans and determined the following hoses are
> required for the IO-540 installation:
>
> VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
> VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
> VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
> VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
> VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
> VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
> VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
>
> I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with the
> integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I requested a
> quote from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com) for the above
> hoses ALL Teflon with integral firesleeve except the (VA-119) MAP
> Hose. They came back with and initial price of $491 for the set. The
> Van's price for the set of hoses (not all Teflon with integral
> firesleeve) is about $545. I've asked them if they could offer a
> greater discount if we could arrange a group buy. I haven't heard back
> from them yet but wanted to get you thinking.
>
> Here are the specifics.
> Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
> 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214) (IO-540
> Man Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154)
> (IO-540 Fuel Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272)
> (IO-540 Oil Press.)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140)
> (IO-540 Fuel Supply)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254)
> (IO-540 Fuel Line)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164) (Oil
> cooler)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270) (Oil
> cooler)
>
> Hose with Integral firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
>
> Hose with external firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
>
> William Curtis
> http://nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
Or you can make your own, it isn't that hard and it's even cheaper!!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Jae Chang
wrote:
> I was looking at the Firewall Forward kit and was looking at what
> modifications people made in the past.
>
> The hose kit is really really confusing. Prices are all over the
> map. As far as I see, Van's prices have been sharply reduced. Aircrafthose.com
> 's prices have been sharply increased since William Curtis's email
> below - just 20 days ago. Are hoses tied to the stock market indices
> to explain the volatility?
>
> I called aircrafthose.com today and these are the prices quoted to me.
> $596 for 7 hoses
> $556 without VA-119
>
> Hmm, that's interesting. Okay, let me check Van's prices. This is
> from their online catalog:
>
> PART NUMBER TYPE OF LINE LENGTH &
> DIAMETER PRICE Qty Shopping Cart
> VA-119 MANIFOLD PRESSURE 21.50"x1/4" $17.00
> VA-102 FUEL PRESSURE 15.50"x1/4" $15.50
> VA-133 OIL PRESSURE 27.25"x1/4" $18.25
> VA-135 OIL COOLER 16.50"x1/2" $64.40
> VA-190 OIL COOLER 27.00"x1/2" $97.65
> VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY 14.00"x3/8" $63.30
> VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 25.50"x3/8" $100.50
> Van's total is now only $376 from $545 in William's email below.
> Thus, it's now much less of an easy decision. Are the upgraded hoses
> worth paying 50% more than Van's prices?
>
> Also, aircrafthose.com told me only 1 buyer in August and previously
> a buyer in May for the rv-10 hoses, so not many people went this
> route it seems.
>
> FYI,
> Jae
> 40533
>
> W. Curtis wrote:
>>
>> RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage.
>> Having not ordered the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning
>> ahead, I've looked at the plans and determined the following hoses
>> are required for the IO-540 installation:
>>
>> VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
>> VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
>> VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
>> VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
>> VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
>> VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
>> VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
>>
>> I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with
>> the integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I
>> requested a quote from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com)
>> for the above hoses ALL Teflon with integral firesleeve except the
>> (VA-119) MAP Hose. They came back with and initial price of $491
>> for the set. The Van's price for the set of hoses (not all Teflon
>> with integral firesleeve) is about $545. I've asked them if they
>> could offer a greater discount if we could arrange a group buy. I
>> haven't heard back from them yet but wanted to get you thinking.
>>
>> Here are the specifics.
>> Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
>> 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214)
>> (IO-540 Man Press.)
>> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154)
>> (IO-540 Fuel Press.)
>> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272)
>> (IO-540 Oil Press.)
>> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140)
>> (IO-540 Fuel Supply)
>> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254)
>> (IO-540 Fuel Line)
>> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164)
>> (Oil cooler)
>> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270)
>> (Oil cooler)
>>
>> Hose with Integral firesleeve
>> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
>>
>> Hose with external firesleeve
>> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
>>
>> William Curtis
>> http://nerv10.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Phil,
For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to a
forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached). You
would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all the way
up the starter and alternator.
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Brian would like to recall the message, "RV10-List: Grounding Questions".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Phil,
For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to a
forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached). You
would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all the way
up the starter and alternator.
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Phil,
For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to a
forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached). You
would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all the way
up the starter and alternator.
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
William's quote is from a couple of years ago.
There are firesleeves on all the the aircrafthose and not all of the
Van's ones. You'll need to look at the price and add the price for a
firesleeve, should you opt to go that route. Van's has these exact hoses
on their demo planes.
Pascal
From: Jae Chang
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated
pricing
I was looking at the Firewall Forward kit and was looking at what
modifications people made in the past.
The hose kit is really really confusing. Prices are all over the map. As
far as I see, Van's prices have been sharply reduced. Aircrafthose.com's
prices have been sharply increased since William Curtis's email below -
just 20 days ago. Are hoses tied to the stock market indices to explain
the volatility?
I called aircrafthose.com today and these are the prices quoted to me.
$596 for 7 hoses
$556 without VA-119
Hmm, that's interesting. Okay, let me check Van's prices. This is from
their online catalog:
PART NUMBER TYPE OF LINE LENGTH &
DIAMETER PRICE Qty Shopping Cart
VA-119 MANIFOLD PRESSURE 21.50"x1/4" $17.00
VA-102 FUEL PRESSURE 15.50"x1/4" $15.50
VA-133 OIL PRESSURE 27.25"x1/4" $18.25
VA-135 OIL COOLER 16.50"x1/2" $64.40
VA-190 OIL COOLER 27.00"x1/2" $97.65
VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY 14.00"x3/8" $63.30
VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 25.50"x3/8" $100.50
Van's total is now only $376 from $545 in William's email below. Thus,
it's now much less of an easy decision. Are the upgraded hoses worth
paying 50% more than Van's prices?
Also, aircrafthose.com told me only 1 buyer in August and previously a
buyer in May for the rv-10 hoses, so not many people went this route it
seems.
FYI,
Jae
40533
W. Curtis wrote:
RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage.
Having not ordered the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning ahead,
I've looked at the plans and determined the following hoses are required
for the IO-540 installation:
VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with the
integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I requested a quote
from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com) for the above hoses ALL
Teflon with integral firesleeve except the (VA-119) MAP Hose. They came
back with and initial price of $491 for the set. The Van's price for the
set of hoses (not all Teflon with integral firesleeve) is about $545.
I've asked them if they could offer a greater discount if we could
arrange a group buy. I haven't heard back from them yet but wanted to
get you thinking.
Here are the specifics.
Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214) (IO-540
Man Press.)
124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154)
(IO-540 Fuel Press.)
124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272)
(IO-540 Oil Press.)
124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140)
(IO-540 Fuel Supply)
124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254)
(IO-540 Fuel Line)
124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164) (Oil
cooler)
124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270) (Oil
cooler)
Hose with Integral firesleeve
http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
Hose with external firesleeve
http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
William Curtis
http://nerv10.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Air Cond |
no problem. at my age i like things big. robert
On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:00 AM, David Maib wrote:
> Sorry about the size of that photo in my previous post. I intended
> to resize it before sending, but somehow missed it.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> flying
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2009, at 9:47 PM, David Maib wrote:
>
> Robert,
> I have not measured the drop from ambient, but I would guess 20
> degrees is about right. I talked to John Strain at Flightline AC a
> couple of months ago and mentioned that I did not think the "High"
> cabin fan position put out as much air as I expected it to. He said
> that the cabin fan actually has four positions. Lo, medium, medium
> hi, and hi. The individual that wired the units for Flightline AC
> made a command decision and wired the bottom three for the
> Flightline installation. So, I really only have Lo, medium, and
> medium hi. I don't know if John has corrected that on recent kits. I
> plan to have John help me rewire it one of these days when we get
> out to Oregon. He tells me it is not a difficult job, but getting to
> the area will be difficult. However, I installed access panels on
> each side of the upper forward tailcone, so I do have some AC access.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> David Maib
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:57 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
>
> DAVE, I TOO HAVE THE SAME A/C SYSTEM. IT DOES NOT GET CHILLY IN THE
> CABIN ENGAGED ON A HOT CORPUS CHRISTI DAY, BUT IT KEEPS ME FROM
> FRYING. HOW LOW DOES YOUR SYSTEM TAKE YOU. I GET ABOUT 20 DEGREES
> DROP FROM AMBIENT OUT THE VENTS. ROBERT I KNOW, I LEFT MY CAPS ON.
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:14 PM, David Maib wrote:
>
>> I have been flying with the Flightline AC system for 8 months in
>> Florida. Very happy with the system and cannot imagine being
>> without it. As Don Orrick notes, being able to have AC while
>> taxiing is really nice. We also have the Vertical Power Climate
>> Control System and it works great. Being able to run the cabin fan
>> without the compressor on is desirable, and Vertical Power is still
>> working on that. When we were building this airplane up in
>> Minnesota, my wife was not sure we needed to put in AC, even though
>> we knew we were moving south. She said "being hot and sweaty is
>> just part of the light airplane experience". She has officially
>> changed her tune and is really glad we installed AC.
>>
>> David Maib
>> 40559
>> Flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 6:23 PM, woxofswa wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am getting to the point where I need to fish or cut bait on the A/
>> C installation.
>>
>> Is there anyone out there with field experience of working systems?
>>
>> Any pros/cons between the two primary systems available?
>>
>> To those who've done it, would you do it again?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> --------
>> Myron Nelson
>> Mesa, AZ
>> Emp completed, legacy build fuse in progress
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260521#260521
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> nbsp; - The RV10-List Email Forum href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ">http://www.matronics--> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -Matt
>> Dralle, href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co==================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
| From: | "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com> |
I was the guy who bought the hose kit from aircrafthose on May 6th:
111417-4S0214 21.50" 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fittings
124J001-4CR0154 15.50" 124-4J hose with 524-4CR fittings
124J001-4CR0272 27.25" 124-4J hose with 524-4CR fittings
124J001-6CR0140 14.00" 124-6J hose with 524-6CR fittings
124J002-6CR0254 25.50" 124-6J hose with one 524-6CR fitting and one 528-6CR
fitting
124J001-8CR0164 16.50" 124-8J hose with 524-8CR fittings Oil cooler
124J001-8CR0270 27.00" 124-8J hose with 524-8CR fittings Oil cooler
Price was $596.37
William, thanks again for posting the hose info on your site!
Lenny
#40804
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260862#260862
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
Here's my take: A heavy ground from the battery to the firewall, and
from the firewall to the engine case eliminates any grounding issues
down the road. I have seen corrosion caused by electrolysis in aluminum
structures .... typically where the rivets or screws are ... from
currents in the ground. I have also seen the braided ground straps
deteriorate from vibration and electrolysis ..... but it did take a long
time. In the scheme of things, the additional ground weight is minimal,
and the absence of grounding problems in the future outweighs the weight
penalty. The 'airframe ground' problems show up when your battery is
old on a cold morning and you need to depart quickly. It is true that
most factory built aircraft use the airframe as ground ..... but the
battery is usually hanging on the firewall, not stuck back behind the
baggage compartment like RV-10s and Cherokees. I'm running both power
and ground from the battery to bulkhead feedthroughs from Waytek, and a
short cable from there to the engine case (ground) and to the starter
(power) through the start solenoid. There will be a heavy cable (but
smaller than the above power/ground) to the subpanel where everything is
connected on terminal strips. Both power and ground. Nav lights will
use airframe ground. Electronics in the tail will have power and ground
fed from the sub-panel terminal strips.
Linn
Brian wrote:
> Phil,
>
> For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to a
> forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached). You
> would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all the way
> up the starter and alternator.
>
> Brian
> N104BS (160 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
| From: | "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com> |
Thanks Brian...
What did you run from the battery to cabin-side of the firewall?
Also, do you have all of your grounds coming back to the tabs?
AKA: Wingtips and Tailcone too.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [mailto:rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Phil,
For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to
a forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached).
You would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all
the way up the starter and alternator.
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
another thought...
There is a longeron that runs up the right side of the plane... from
the aft side of the baggage compartment to the firewall. My plan is
to run a ground strap from the battery to the aft end of that...
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Routing out my left window >:
On Aug 30, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
> I=92m in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
> and in my head.
>
> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
> really don=92t like the idea of routing current through the airframe
> and would prefer to ground everything back to a block.
>
> Here is where I think I=92m headed.
>
> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
> forward to the firewall.
> a. Attach this line to a =93Forest of Tab=94 on the interior
side
> of the firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage
> compartment to this spot.
> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
> FWF items to the =93Forest of Tab=94 on the FWF side.
> c. I=92ll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>
> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> the left wing tip and install a Forest out there too=85..
> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing,
> Pitot heat, Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc=85=85
>
> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> the right wing tip and install a Forest.
> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items
> on the right side.
>
> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> a =93Forest of Tabs=94 located beside the battery box.
> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
> electronics. NAV, Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other
> electronic devices that end up aft of the baggage compartment.
>
> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can
> be a pain to chase down, so that=92s the reason I=92m really wanting
to
> spend the time designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to
> trace.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
Every Mooney of more than 180hp has the battery(s)behind the baggage
compartment, and uses local airframe grounds. Some Cessnas also have
battery in back and use local grounds. As well as the mentioned Pipers.
Never have seen any corrosion anywhere but the actual cable connections,
which should be inspected annually. Pipers had problems with aluminum
battery cables on positive side of circuit.
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Here's my take: A heavy ground from the battery to the firewall, and
> from the firewall to the engine case eliminates any grounding issues
> down the road. I have seen corrosion caused by electrolysis in aluminum
> structures .... typically where the rivets or screws are ... from
> currents in the ground. I have also seen the braided ground straps
> deteriorate from vibration and electrolysis ..... but it did take a long
> time. In the scheme of things, the additional ground weight is minimal,
> and the absence of grounding problems in the future outweighs the weight
> penalty. The 'airframe ground' problems show up when your battery is
> old on a cold morning and you need to depart quickly. It is true that
> most factory built aircraft use the airframe as ground ..... but the
> battery is usually hanging on the firewall, not stuck back behind the
> baggage compartment like RV-10s and Cherokees. I'm running both power
> and ground from the battery to bulkhead feedthroughs from Waytek, and a
> short cable from there to the engine case (ground) and to the starter
> (power) through the start solenoid. There will be a heavy cable (but
> smaller than the above power/ground) to the subpanel where everything is
> connected on terminal strips. Both power and ground. Nav lights will
> use airframe ground. Electronics in the tail will have power and ground
> fed from the sub-panel terminal strips.
> Linn
>
> Brian wrote:
>> Phil,
>>
>> For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block
>> to a
>> forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic
>> attached). You
>> would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all
>> the way
>> up the starter and alternator.
>>
>> Brian
>> N104BS (160 hours)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
Phil,
There are two issues. Yes, the engine needs a very stout ground cable to
the firewall, because the engine mounts make a poor grounding path. No,
you don't need a ground cable from your firewall ground point to the
battery. The airframe will serve very well. Just for example, my Mooney
has a braided ground from the engine crankcase to the firewall...no
forest of tabs, just a single bolt and washer connection at firewall.
ALL grounds are to the airframe. Not as good as the single point of
grounding for electronics. But more than sufficient for all your
lighting and your starter. My battery is behind baggage compartment,
just like RV-10. Ground is to an airframe rib with bolt and washer.
Carries all 300 amps or so during starting, with very little resistance.
Virtually all certificated metal skinned aircraft do the same, because
it works, is lightweight and maintenance free. Including the Piper
Cherokee he mentions reducing battery size. Other than that mention,
none of his verbiage really addresses the rear mount battery in a metal
airframe. He mostly talks about batteries on the firewall and composite
aircraft. Yes, you would run a cable from battery to firewall if it is
only 18". The subject has come up on his email list.
But you are free to install the extra heavy #4 cable all the way back to
your battery if you want. Just money, weight and space.
A quote from Bob on his email list a couple years ago:
">1) For each battery (minus) it's shown to connect locally to the
>airframe. Providing that good, secure connections with 4AWG (or welding
>cable) are done locally, does this negate the need to run heavy (2AWG or
>4AWG) ground cabling forward?
Yes.
>2) Relates to question 1. If it's necessary to run ground cabling
>forward, is it acceptable/reasonable to instead: a) Connect the battery
>minus posts with a single, short welding cable, and b) Connect another
>single short welding cable for local ground, and c) continue with a
single
>large (2AWG or 4AWG) cable forward to connect to the Brass Firewall Thru
>Bolt for the Firewall, Panel and downstream Avionics ground busses?
(This
>seems overdone, redundant and heavy to me, but I just want to be sure I
>haven't missed something here)
There's a boatload of ol' mechanic's tales out there about
the hazards of local grounds in aircraft. Aside from the obvious
and predictable issues involving ground loops (when particularly
vulnerable systems share grounds spread out over the airframe),
there are no great concerns for using the airframe as a primary
ground structure. There's some value in considering the used of
a separate ground wire for tubular structures where we've see
some instances of structure getting magnetized due to high current
flow . . . but that doesn't apply to you."
Perry, Phil wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
> following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
> damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
> follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
> called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
> and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
> information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
> get to it.
>
> But that's just me....
>
> So back to the topic...
>
> On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
> airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
> the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
> between the crankcase and the firewall.
>
> When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
> out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
> mixture, and p-lead shielding.
>
> So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
> airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
> crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
>
> He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
> holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
> battery.
>
> So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
>
> I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
> the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
> and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
> the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
> starter to the alternator.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
>
>
> IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
>
> electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
> light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
> airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
> complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
> any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
> still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
> heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
> magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
>
> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>
>> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
>> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
>> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
>> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
> wrote:
>>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
> and in
>>> my head.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
> really
>>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
> prefer
>>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
> forward to
>>> the firewall.
>>>
>>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
> of the
>>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
> this
>>> spot.
>>>
>>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
> FWF items
>>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>>
>>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>>
>>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> the left
>>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>>
>>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
> heat,
>>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>>
>>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> the
>>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>>
>>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
> the
>>> right side.
>>>
>>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
> a
>>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>>
>>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
> electronics. NAV,
>>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
> that end
>>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
> a pain
>>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
> time
>>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
You are right. For some reason I thought William's email was just 20
days ago, but actually, it was 20 days + 3 years ago. My bad! I think
i'll just stick with Van's now cheaper hoses.
Amazing, i think it's the only aviation part I have come across that has
seen price deflation.
Jae
Pascal wrote:
> William's quote is from a couple of years ago.
> There are firesleeves on all the the aircrafthose and not all of the
> Van's ones. You'll need to look at the price and add the price for a
> firesleeve, should you opt to go that route. Van's has these exact
> hoses on their demo planes.
> Pascal
>
> *
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
If you have ever handled integral firesleeve teflon hose and compared it
to ordinary 303 hose with external firesleeve, there is no comparison.
Pricewise, when you do apples to apples comparison, the integral
firesleeve hose set will cost you about $100 more to have hose that will
last as long as the airframe. Vans hoses you will need to replace every
7-10 years, minimum.
Lenny Iszak wrote:
>
> I was the guy who bought the hose kit from aircrafthose on May 6th:
>
> 111417-4S0214 21.50" 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fittings
> 124J001-4CR0154 15.50" 124-4J hose with 524-4CR fittings
> 124J001-4CR0272 27.25" 124-4J hose with 524-4CR fittings
> 124J001-6CR0140 14.00" 124-6J hose with 524-6CR fittings
> 124J002-6CR0254 25.50" 124-6J hose with one 524-6CR fitting and one 528-6CR
fitting
> 124J001-8CR0164 16.50" 124-8J hose with 524-8CR fittings Oil cooler
> 124J001-8CR0270 27.00" 124-8J hose with 524-8CR fittings Oil cooler
>
> Price was $596.37
>
> William, thanks again for posting the hose info on your site!
>
> Lenny
> #40804
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260862#260862
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy - Updated pricing |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Yes, but you will replace those hoses from Vans at least twice as
often as they are just Aeroquip 303 or equivalent. You won't have as
much firesleeve protection. IMHO, all fuel and oil hoses forward of
firewall should be firesleeved. It is much more difficult to add after
the fittings have been installed. Your choice.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Jae Chang wrote:
>
> You are right. For some reason I thought William's email was just 20 days
> ago, but actually, it was 20 days + 3 years ago. My bad! I think i'll just
> stick with Van's now cheaper hoses.
>
> Amazing, i think it's the only aviation part I have come across that has
> seen price deflation.
>
> Jae
>
> Pascal wrote:
>>
>> William's quote is from a couple of years ago.
>> There are firesleeves on all the the aircrafthose and not all of the
>> Van's ones. You'll need to look at the price and add the price for a
>> firesleeve, should you opt to go that route. Van's has these exact hoses on
>> their demo planes.
>> Pascal
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
I chose to run a #2 cable up to the firewall, same as the positive. I'm running
it though the firewall with a piece of 3/8ths all thread rod so it is acting
as the single point ground for my panel, airframe, and engine. I'll still
ground non sensitive equipment like Nav lights at the source and I also have a
battery bus back by the batteries and anything there can ground right to the
battery.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Every Mooney of more than 180hp has the battery(s)behind the baggage
compartment, and uses local airframe grounds. Some Cessnas also have
battery in back and use local grounds. As well as the mentioned Pipers.
Never have seen any corrosion anywhere but the actual cable connections,
which should be inspected annually. Pipers had problems with aluminum
battery cables on positive side of circuit.
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Here's my take: A heavy ground from the battery to the firewall, and
> from the firewall to the engine case eliminates any grounding issues
> down the road. I have seen corrosion caused by electrolysis in aluminum
> structures .... typically where the rivets or screws are ... from
> currents in the ground. I have also seen the braided ground straps
> deteriorate from vibration and electrolysis ..... but it did take a long
> time. In the scheme of things, the additional ground weight is minimal,
> and the absence of grounding problems in the future outweighs the weight
> penalty. The 'airframe ground' problems show up when your battery is
> old on a cold morning and you need to depart quickly. It is true that
> most factory built aircraft use the airframe as ground ..... but the
> battery is usually hanging on the firewall, not stuck back behind the
> baggage compartment like RV-10s and Cherokees. I'm running both power
> and ground from the battery to bulkhead feedthroughs from Waytek, and a
> short cable from there to the engine case (ground) and to the starter
> (power) through the start solenoid. There will be a heavy cable (but
> smaller than the above power/ground) to the subpanel where everything is
> connected on terminal strips. Both power and ground. Nav lights will
> use airframe ground. Electronics in the tail will have power and ground
> fed from the sub-panel terminal strips.
> Linn
>
> Brian wrote:
>> Phil,
>>
>> For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block
>> to a
>> forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic
>> attached). You
>> would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all
>> the way
>> up the starter and alternator.
>>
>> Brian
>> N104BS (160 hours)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
| From: | ricksked(at)embarqmail.com |
Guys/Gals,
I local grounded the battery's at the aft bulkhead...Ran independent grounds for
EVERYTHING to the tree at the firewall (no G loops by running independent grounds)
where the engine is grounded to the tree by the same size ( #2 welding
lead) cable use to deliver power to the starter. It works fine, don't mind f#*k
this.......it has worked this way on aircraft for years....and years....I only
local grounded the position lights...From my "flying" experience there is
no reason to run a #2 ground wire up front....
YMMV....and just the normal 2 cents......
Rick Sked
N246RS
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:23:28
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I chose to run a #2 cable up to the firewall, same as the positive. I'm running
it though the firewall with a piece of 3/8ths all thread rod so it is acting
as the single point ground for my panel, airframe, and engine. I'll still
ground non sensitive equipment like Nav lights at the source and I also have a
battery bus back by the batteries and anything there can ground right to the
battery.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Every Mooney of more than 180hp has the battery(s)behind the baggage
compartment, and uses local airframe grounds. Some Cessnas also have
battery in back and use local grounds. As well as the mentioned Pipers.
Never have seen any corrosion anywhere but the actual cable connections,
which should be inspected annually. Pipers had problems with aluminum
battery cables on positive side of circuit.
Linn Walters wrote:
>
> Here's my take: A heavy ground from the battery to the firewall, and
> from the firewall to the engine case eliminates any grounding issues
> down the road. I have seen corrosion caused by electrolysis in aluminum
> structures .... typically where the rivets or screws are ... from
> currents in the ground. I have also seen the braided ground straps
> deteriorate from vibration and electrolysis ..... but it did take a long
> time. In the scheme of things, the additional ground weight is minimal,
> and the absence of grounding problems in the future outweighs the weight
> penalty. The 'airframe ground' problems show up when your battery is
> old on a cold morning and you need to depart quickly. It is true that
> most factory built aircraft use the airframe as ground ..... but the
> battery is usually hanging on the firewall, not stuck back behind the
> baggage compartment like RV-10s and Cherokees. I'm running both power
> and ground from the battery to bulkhead feedthroughs from Waytek, and a
> short cable from there to the engine case (ground) and to the starter
> (power) through the start solenoid. There will be a heavy cable (but
> smaller than the above power/ground) to the subpanel where everything is
> connected on terminal strips. Both power and ground. Nav lights will
> use airframe ground. Electronics in the tail will have power and ground
> fed from the sub-panel terminal strips.
> Linn
>
> Brian wrote:
>> Phil,
>>
>> For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block
>> to a
>> forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic
>> attached). You
>> would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all
>> the way
>> up the starter and alternator.
>>
>> Brian
>> N104BS (160 hours)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "richard sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding Questions |
I did just that Jeff. Seems to be working great.
Dick Sipp
N110DV
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
another thought...
There is a longeron that runs up the right side of the plane... from
the aft side of the baggage compartment to the firewall. My plan is to
run a ground strap from the battery to the aft end of that...
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Routing out my left window >:
On Aug 30, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
I=92m in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on
paper and in my head.
Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really don=92t like the idea of routing current through the airframe and
would prefer to ground everything back to a block.
Here is where I think I=92m headed.
1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to the firewall.
a. Attach this line to a =93Forest of Tab=94 on the interior
side of the firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage
compartment to this spot.
b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items to the =93Forest of Tab=94 on the FWF side.
c. I=92ll also ground the crank case at this point too.
2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left wing tip and install a Forest out there too=85..
a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing,
Pitot heat, Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc=85=85
3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the right wing tip and install a Forest.
a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items
on the right side.
4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a =93Forest of Tabs=94 located beside the battery box.
a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV, Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other
electronic devices that end up aft of the baggage compartment.
How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can
be a pain to chase down, so that=92s the reason I=92m really wanting to
spend the time designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to
trace.
Thanks,
Phil
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Grounding Questions |
Opinions on this differ - that's O.K. I chose to run a #2 from the battery
negative post to the island of tabs on the cabin side of the firewall. The
carry through bolt terminates this lead and the braided lead to the
crankcase on the engine side. Remember that during cranking you are working
at a disadvantage; the battery isn't supplying 14V and the return path has
the starter solenoid and battery contactor in line adding additional circuit
path resistance (BTW - you may recall that in electronics 101 that current
flows from negative to positive). Having a complete low resistance path
helps deliver the current needed to crank the engine on a frosty morning.
As for the rest of my electronics they each have an appropriately sized
battery and corresponding battery return to a single point ground. The
weight of 18 gauge wire is negligible compared to other RV-10 options.
If I was starting from scratch I would likely go with CCA (copper clad
aluminum) instead of the stranded #2 to save weight but would still run the
lead.
FYI - here is a link to a presentation I prepared for my EAA chapter that
contains brief information for sizing wires (along with some other
information I hope you find useful).
http://www.eaa162.org/cmsmadesimple/uploads/experimental_electrical.pdf
FWIW - I'm a fan of 'lectric Bob (I'm a sparky in my day job).
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Thanks Brian...
What did you run from the battery to cabin-side of the firewall?
Also, do you have all of your grounds coming back to the tabs?
AKA: Wingtips and Tailcone too.
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [mailto:rv10builder(at)bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
Phil,
For FWF a single braided connection from the rear of the engine block to
a forest of tabs on the firewall is more than sufficient (pic attached).
You would only be adding unnecessary weight with a ground connection all
the way up the starter and alternator.
Brian
N104BS (160 hours)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
I'm not sure that's right Kelly.. Of course I have a hard time
following much of what Mr. Nuckolls has to say in his book. He's so
damn verbose and wants to share so much history that it's really hard to
follow his thought process. :) I wish he would write another book
called "Just the Facts" and leave the other 85% of the history, stories,
and unnecessary content out. But at least there is some good
information in there in the diagrams and in general. You just have to
get to it.
But that's just me....
So back to the topic...
On page 5-4 paragraph #2, he tells a story of when they used to own an
airport. A mechanic was reinstalling an engine that was overhauled. In
the process of connecting grounds, he didn't connect the ground strap
between the crankcase and the firewall.
When they tried to start the engine they only had smoke. Come to find
out the current tried to find a path back to the battery via throttle,
mixture, and p-lead shielding.
So it sounds like he is advocating a ground from the crankcase to the
airframe. But then in the next sentence, he says "Grounding the
crankcase to the battery directly eliminates this possibility."
He suggests grounding the crankcase with a heavy braid to the bolt
holding the Forest of Tabs on the firewall. Then from the Tabs to the
battery.
So it's open to your interpretation I guess.
I think I'm going to run a heavy ground from the battery to the tabs at
the panel. Then from the tabs, I'll run a ground wire to each wing tip
and one to the tail. FWF, I'm going to jump through the firewall (from
the tabs) and run a strap to the starter. Then a jumper from the
starter to the alternator.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Grounding Questions
IIRC, Bob Nuckolls advocates only single point grounding for "sensitive"
electronics; that the heavy load stuff like starter, battery, landing
light, pitot heat are all fine being grounded through the aluminum
airframe. Running dedicated grounds for those devices just adds
complexity and weight for no discernible benefit. I doubt you will find
any TC aircraft with separate ground leads for the heavy loads. If you
still decide to go with separate ground leads for lighting and pitot
heat, they would benefit from twisting with the hot lead to reduce
magnetic influences on your compass, remote or otherwise.
Rob Kermanj wrote:
>
> Have a dedicated ground for all your radio/gps equipment and ground
> everything including the headset jacks back to this point. Make sure
> that you use the washer with shoulder (comes with the jacks) to
> isolate the headset jacks from the airframe ground.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Perry, Phil
wrote:
>> I'm in the process of trying to layout my electrical system on paper
and in
>> my head.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best place to start is with the grounding system. I
really
>> don't like the idea of routing current through the airframe and would
prefer
>> to ground everything back to a block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is where I think I'm headed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery
forward to
>> the firewall.
>>
>> a. Attach this line to a "Forest of Tab" on the interior side
of the
>> firewall. Ground everything forward of the baggage compartment to
this
>> spot.
>>
>> b. Jump through the firewall on the other side and ground all
FWF items
>> to the "Forest of Tab" on the FWF side.
>>
>> c. I'll also ground the crank case at this point too.
>>
>> 2) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the left
>> wing tip and install a Forest out there too.....
>>
>> a. Install a similar setup for NAV, Strobe, Taxi/Landing, Pitot
heat,
>> Aileron Trim, Stall Warning, etc......
>>
>> 3) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
the
>> right wing tip and install a Forest.
>>
>> a. Repeat the left side setup of grounding on the wing items on
the
>> right side.
>>
>> 4) Run a line directly from the (-) Terminal of the battery to
a
>> "Forest of Tabs" located beside the battery box.
>>
>> a. This is for the point for grounding all tailcone
electronics. NAV,
>> Rudder Trim Servo, Elevator Servo, and any other electronic devices
that end
>> up aft of the baggage compartment.
>>
>>
>>
>> How have you designed your grounding system? Grounding issues can be
a pain
>> to chase down, so that's the reason I'm really wanting to spend the
time
>> designing a system that is pretty robust and easy to trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge install |
Listers,
While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like the
skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
that should be there?
Ed Godfrey
40717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
Is the overlap the same the whole length of the leading edge skin, or
just at one end. If just at one end, then there could be a twist.
There is not supposed to be any twist in the wing. We have seen
periodically that the leading edge skin needs to be filed a little bit
to nest in with the rear skin. The biggest thing is to make sure that
there is no twist, which you should be able to see by looking down the
plane of the skin from one end, then just file a little bit off.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to
> how to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it?
> Is there any twist that should be there?
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Ed;
Did Vans say there is any twist designed in the wing? I'd ask that
question. I don't think there is.
Did the other panels line up correctly? Did you have to force any rivet
lines ?
Just a thought. Set it up on saw horses so that the Main spar is
plumb. (inboard side) . Then get a board and place it vertical at the
outboard edge with a plumb line on it. Then get a couple laser pointers
and shoot a line down the upper and lower line of rivets.
Second thought. Do you know what winding sticks are? Basically,
couple of straight sticks. Tape one on the inboard and one on the out
board part of the spar. Then sight down the top of the sticks and see if
you can see any twist in the spar.
If I had a twisted spar, I think that would not be something that I
would want to "fix" other than consideration of replacement.
Dr Fred.
Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
> 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the
> wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to
> check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there
> any twist that should be there?
>
> Ed Godfrey
> 40717
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Jesse,
It seems that at the outboard end, that the skin will lay flat
against the spar flange, but when you get in a couple rivets, it starts
the overlap. Also, looking through come of the inboard holes, it seems
like the holes off by about the same distance as the overlap. Because of
that, I am thinking of removing the rivets that I have installed on spar
web to ribs and rivet the LE skin first, then the spar.
Ed
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> Is the overlap the same the whole length of the leading edge skin, or
> just at one end. If just at one end, then there could be a twist.
> There is not supposed to be any twist in the wing. We have seen
> periodically that the leading edge skin needs to be filed a little bit
> to nest in with the rear skin. The biggest thing is to make sure that
> there is no twist, which you should be able to see by looking down the
> plane of the skin from one end, then just file a little bit off.
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation, Inc.
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> Cell: 352-427-0285
> Fax: 815-377-3694
>
> On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
>>
>> Listers,
>> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
>> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
>> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
>> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how
>> to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is
>> there any twist that should be there?
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dogsbark(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Ed,
You may want to temporarily cleco that wing's bottom skins on, then see how
the leading edge lines up.=C2- It will provide additional defined positi
oning of the outboard spar.=C2- How do the rivet lines of the top skin an
d leading edge compare when installed?=C2-=C2-=C2-
Sean Blair
COS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:44:53 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: RV10-List: Leading edge install
Listers,
=C2-=C2- =C2-While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it se
ems like the
skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
that should be there?
Ed Godfrey
40717
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Fred,
No, Van's did not mention anything about a twist that should be in
the wing, just to check if there was any. I was asking because of
something else that I had read that mentioned about a twist from the
wing root outward, but that was not for a 10. Thanks for the insight on
checking. I will set the wing up and check it out. The only skin that I
have riveted so far are the top wing skins and they did not show any
problem.
Ed
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>
>
> Ed;
>
> Did Vans say there is any twist designed in the wing? I'd ask that
> question. I don't think there is.
> Did the other panels line up correctly? Did you have to force any
> rivet lines ?
> Just a thought. Set it up on saw horses so that the Main spar is
> plumb. (inboard side) . Then get a board and place it vertical at
> the outboard edge with a plumb line on it. Then get a couple laser
> pointers and shoot a line down the upper and lower line of rivets.
> Second thought. Do you know what winding sticks are? Basically,
> couple of straight sticks. Tape one on the inboard and one on the out
> board part of the spar. Then sight down the top of the sticks and see
> if you can see any twist in the spar.
> If I had a twisted spar, I think that would not be something that I
> would want to "fix" other than consideration of replacement.
>
> Dr Fred.
>
>
> Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>> Listers,
>> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like
>> the skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by
>> about 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if
>> the wing is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how
>> to check for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is
>> there any twist that should be there?
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
>> 40717
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge install |
Sean,
Checking the alignment on the holes in the LE to the holes in the
spar, it seems that they are not exactly lined up either and they are
off by about the same as the overlap. I did a test fit of the LE to the
top skin on the right wing and it is tight, but there does not seem to
be an overlap. I will try it with the bottom skin to see what that shows
me. Thanks.
Ed
dogsbark(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
>
>
> You may want to temporarily cleco that wing's bottom skins on, then
> see how the leading edge lines up. It will provide additional defined
> positioning of the outboard spar. How do the rivet lines of the top
> skin and leading edge compare when installed?
>
>
>
> Sean Blair
>
> COS
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Godfrey" <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:44:53 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada
> Mountain
> Subject: RV10-List: Leading edge install
>
>
> Listers,
> While installing my leading edge on the left wing, it seems like the
> skin of the leading edge is overlapping the top main skin by about
> 1/32". Talking to VAN's, they suggested that I check to see if the wing
> is twisted at all. Does anyone have any wise words as to how to check
> for wing twist and if there is any, how to remove it? Is there any twist
> that should bsp; &
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> |
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately
without too much effort or expense.
Jeff- with two people doing this you should be fine. I had my wife spread
the weld-on on the window while I spread a small bead on the door. We had
one person hold the window in place and used retainers drilled into the
canopy to hold the windows flush. than started removing the tape on the
inside first, finishing with having the exterior tape removed.
just make sure you remove the excess Weldon with a stick before removing any
tape. It really can be done all within 20 minutes- at least in the late fall
it can, when the temps are in the 70's.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:34 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>
> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop was
> too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly. The
> bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the window
> and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I had also
> failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the window soon
> enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy into
> the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after discussions
> with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the makers of
> Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start over. There are
> some things I learned from these discussions that are worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would work
> and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane Plastics
> in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the phone. He
> initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and suggested I use
> Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we discussed the situation
> further, I was able to communicate that what we were really trying to do
> in this case was bond the window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the
> window to the fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as
> I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a long
> time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected that
> the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on the
> RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With Weld-on
> 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I understood the
> conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of the plane passing
> the test. This made my decision to start over again certain.
>
> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my router
> and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to Vans for
> another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's what
> I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job done
> (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the manufacture
> date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300- $400.
> Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and called
> Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January of
> this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below 70
> degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to spread the
> Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking tape once the
> window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can
> find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too
> much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Jeff
Thanks for the detailed post - I find the posts about how builders solved
problems the most informative of all.
I still have windows to do and have been considering Silpruf as an
alternative to Weldon. Fortunately I don't have to make a decision until
spring when it will be cool.
Do you know if Weldon can be applied effectively at lower temperatures? And
if so how does this impact the cure time? Is too long a cure time a problem?
Do you have any pix of how you routed out the window?
Cheers
Les
#40643 - living in a f/g world
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: September-03-09 12:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trim Pushrod Help |
| From: | "Brian Steeves" <Brian.Steeves(at)Parkenna.com> |
Thanks for the input. I will try those to see if I can get more throw.
I am assuming that the trim tab will only need to move from flush to the left side
to trim out during flight. This might help also since pulling the tab is
what makes it hit on the flare.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261194#261194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Fibreglass fasteners |
Hi
I am about to make a couple of trim panels in fibreglass. I would like to
hold them in place using blind fasteners that just pop in/out similar to
those used in autos. What I am trying to avoid is screw heads etc that would
require access to the finished side of the panel.
I have thought about Velcro or snaps but I don't think they would give as
tight a fit as desired.
Does anyone know of source for easy on/off blind fasteners that would work
with fibreglass?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Les
#40643 - living in a f/g world
Les Kearney MBA, CGA, CIA
KMCL
5015 - 154 ST NW
Edmonton T6H5P1
(780) 707-0169 cell
(866) 871-8558 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side.... |
Hi
As follow up to my post below, I have discovered a couple of more things
that may be of interest.
First, if the door pins are adjusted so that the front and back pins
both
contact the door blocks at the same time, the door does not seem to move
fore or aft in the opening when latching. This mitigates the need for
shims
in the door blocks to prevent door movement when latching.
Next, over the past few days I have been repeatedly opening and closing
the
doors to =93work=94 the mechanisms. In doing this the grease that I used
seems
to be getting further into the gears etc. Consequently, the door action
is
getting smoother and easier to operate. In a couple off weeks I plan the
doors & mechanisms. When I re-install, I plan to grease prior to
reassembly
and see what impact this has.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' living in a f/g world
_____
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca]
Sent: August-29-09 2:28 PM
Subject: Tales from the dark OOPS I mean door side....
Hi
Over the past few weeks I have been working on my canopy and doors.
I have experienced a wide range of emotions when dealing with the doors
'
mostly frustration! The doors seemed to be designed to test the will to
build and our ability to persevere.
As part of the process I have studied the usual websites to see what
others
have done and trolled the archives for any hints and tips that might be
useful. Here are some of the things that I did (or wish I had done the
first time through) to get to doors that actually work.
When reading this, note that I used the Rivethead door blocks and the
McMaster Carr door seals which mount on the canopy opening and not on
the
door. I also installed Steve DeNieri=92s flush handles and locks.
What I did
1. Trimmed the door halves oversize prior to bonding. The index
holes
didn=92t match so bonding alignment was a concern. So was having enough
material to allow clamping to the canopy while curing.
2. When bonding the door halves I followed the plans to a T. It
turns
out that most of the door edges get removed so it is important to have
lots
close in to the inside edge of the flanges. I ended up with several
areas of
delamination. I found that it was possible to inject epoxy into
delaminated
areas using a large bore hypo. The entire bottom edge of one door
delaminated which strangely enough made repair easier.
3. The rear index holes didn=92t match so door alignment relative
to the
door sill was a problem. It was possible that the inner door half could
sit
too low in the openings and not have reasonable clearance from the
sills.
Without correction, this might result in the doors sitting on the bottom
of
the door sill. To ensure consistent spacing between the door and the
door
sill, I taped stacks of popsicle sticks (3 in each) onto the bottom of
the
door sill. The inner door sat on these during the bonding process.
4. The popsicle stick spacers also remained in place when during
the
initial door trim especially on the door top. I didn=92t want to
inadvertently
trim the door to short buy taking too much off the top. The doors were
left
a little long until the hinges were installed.
5. The initial fit objective was to get the doors flush in the
opening
with only a tiny gap all the way round.
6. The Rivethead door blocks were installed on the canopy
fibreglass
door posts
7. After the hinges and door blocks were installed considerable
time
was spent getting the doors pins open / close easily. After door seals
were
installed, I got to do this all over again.
8. Using washers as shims between the hinge and the canopy can
change
the gap between the canopy door post and the door. I used washers on an
aft
door hinges to slightly raise the height of the aft side of the door
which
in turn increased the forward gap between the door post and the door.
9. During latching the doors move fore / aft depending on which
door
pin contacts the door first and which has more friction. This in turn
moves
the door in the frame and changes the fore / aft gaps between the door
and
he canopy. A shim in the door opening between the canopy and the door
prevents this shift during fitting. Uncorrected, this was going to be a
problem.
10. The door seals caused the bottom of the doors to be pushed out
which in
turn resulted in the considerable pressure being required (on the
outside of
the door) to close the door enough for the door pins to engage.
11. I found the once the door seals were more than =BD compressed, the
resistive force on the doors increased significantly. By removing more
material from the outside of the canopy opening, I was able to reduce
the
seal compression and get an easier to close door. This was especially
true
of the canopy door posts.
12. What made a *huge* difference in getting the doors to close easily
was
pushing the canopy door sill inboard by about 1/8=94 This moved the seal
that
contacts the bottom of the door inboard and took most of outward
pressure
off the bottom of the door.
13. I floxed the nylon guide blocks on the fire/aft edges of the doors
so
that they were flush with the inner door perimeter. Consequently they
interfered with the previously installed Rivethead door blocks. To
correct,
the canopy door posts were notched to allow the Rivethead blocks to
mount
directly on the aluminum door posts and thereby provide clearance for
the
door. I shimmed the Rivethead blocks so that there was minimal clearance
between the doors and the blocks. This ensures that the doors remain
correctly aligned within the door opening. See #9.
14. Once the door pins engaged the Rivethead door block, it still took
some
effort to fully engage the pins. There were several factors that added
to
the effort:
* There is a lot of internal friction the Van=92s ratchet
mechanism.
Application of white grease made operation *much* easier
* White grease on the door pins reduced the effort required to
latch
the doors.
* There is a slight bow on the door. The long door pin should
have a
slight curve to ensure it does not bind against the in side of the door
* The further the door pins go into the door blocks, the greater
the
closing effort required. I reduced mine so that the only extend about
=BC=94
through the aluminum door posts.
* The more pressure required to push the door in place so the
pins
can engage, the more effort required to close the door
* If the door perimeter contacts the canopy anywhere, the effort
required to close the door will increase.
What I would do differently
* When bonding the door halves, use considerable more epoxy &
flox
on the door perimeter especially close to the inner edge of the flanges
to
be bonded.
* Pay more attention to the curves on the door pins (especially
the
long ones). One of the pins was binding on the door interior thus
increasing
the effort required to latch the door.
* Grease the ratcheting mechanism before starting the door fit.
A
lot of the door stiffness comes from the door mechanisms. When trying to
adjust the fit, it would have beneficial to have the stiffness out of
the
equation as it was sometime difficult to know what was causing the fit
problems.
* Install the door seals prior to doing the initial door fit.
* Pay more attention to where the door seals are being
compressed
too much when closing the door PRIOR to trimming the inside of the
canopy
flange. (In some places, I had to build up the inside of the canopy
flange
as I had to take more off the outside of the flange. To reduce door
compression.
* Flox the fore and aft door pin guides when building the doors
* Install the Rivethead door blocks directly on the aluminum
door
posts rather than first fitting on the canopy.
* Shim the Rivethead door blocks to ensure door alignment when
fitting the doors
Then end result of this is I can now close and latch both doors with
only
one finger of pressure on the inside door handle with only one finger of
pressure on the outside of the bottom of the door.
Cheers
Les
#40643 ' Living in a f/g world
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20 min
working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-on. I
also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not flying the
airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The other nice
thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good with a PPG
reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the window in any
way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off white and
can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base tint. It is a
little more flexible than the Weld-on which
Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being glued
together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has worked out
great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used this on
all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further. As far as
I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows in. I know
one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a incredible
bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
President
Aerosport Modeling & Design
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-5227p
614-834-5230f
www.aerosportmodeling.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
br Werner
Geoff Combs wrote:
>
> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20 min
> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-on. I
> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not flying the
> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The other nice
> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good with a PPG
> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the window in any
> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off white and
> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base tint. It is a
> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being glued
> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has worked out
> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used this on
> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further. As far as
> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows in. I know
> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a incredible
> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>
> Geoff
>
> Geoff Combs
> President
> Aerosport Modeling & Design
> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
> Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
> 614-834-5227p
> 614-834-5230f
> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>
>
> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
> was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
> The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
> window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
> had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
> window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
> the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
> into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
> discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
> makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
> over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
> worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
> work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
> Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
> phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
> suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
> discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
> we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
> dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
> could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
> long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
> that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
> the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
> Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
> understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
> the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
> certain.
>
> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
> router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
> Vans for another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
> what I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
> done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
> called Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
> of this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
> 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
> spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
> tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
> I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
> accurately without too much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Geoff <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
I used Lord 7542 urethane adhesive
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
> Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
>
> br Werner
>
> Geoff Combs wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20
>> min
>> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-
>> on. I
>> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not
>> flying the
>> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The
>> other nice
>> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good
>> with a PPG
>> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the
>> window in any
>> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off
>> white and
>> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base
>> tint. It is a
>> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
>> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being
>> glued
>> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has
>> worked out
>> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used
>> this on
>> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further.
>> As far as
>> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows
>> in. I know
>> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a
>> incredible
>> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
>> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff Combs
>> President
>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>> 614-834-5227p
>> 614-834-5230f
>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>> Carpenter
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window
>> last week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell,
>> my shop was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up
>> too quickly. The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had
>> voids between the window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of
>> the bonding area. I had also failed to remove the masking tape
>> from the inside of the window soon enough and had a fair amount of
>> masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>>
>> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting
>> epoxy into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but
>> after discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech
>> support by the makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the
>> window and start over. There are some things I learned from these
>> discussions that are worth sharing.
>>
>> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
>> work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from
>> Airplane Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me
>> on the phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might
>> work and suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task.
>> As we discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate
>> that what we were really trying to do in this case was bond the
>> window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the
>> fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as I
>> could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>>
>> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives
>> to Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had
>> been a long time since he had actually installed a window... then
>> recollected that the windows would pop out during the structural
>> roll over test on the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to
>> bond them in. With Weld-on 10, the window would break before the
>> bond would. As I understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an
>> important component of the plane passing the test. This made my
>> decision to start over again certain.
>>
>> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide
>> double flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had
>> in my router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up
>> the $150 to Vans for another window.
>>
>> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on
>> 10, hoping to find another product that would stay open longer.
>> Here's what I learned:
>>
>> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for
>> this application
>> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the
>> job done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
>> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
>> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
>> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
>> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
>> called Weld-on 811.
>>
>> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner
>> might have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and
>> John Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early
>> January of this year.
>>
>> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have
>> stopped burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop
>> at or below 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set
>> of hands to spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull
>> up the masking tape once the window is down securely. The gun
>> seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can find a way to spread the
>> Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too much effort or
>> expense.
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> one step forward... two steps back
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Geoff <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
Sorry guys the material I used was 7545 a/c. The 7542 is the same
material but a little thinner and greenish tan in color. The 7545 has
a higher viscosity and does not run. They have different cure times as
well.
They have a 7545 a/e which is slower yet.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Geoff
wrote:
>
> I used Lord 7542 urethane adhesive
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>
>>
>> Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
>>
>> br Werner
>>
>> Geoff Combs wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20
>>> min
>>> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld-
>>> on. I
>>> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not
>>> flying the
>>> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The
>>> other nice
>>> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good
>>> with a PPG
>>> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the
>>> window in any
>>> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off
>>> white and
>>> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base
>>> tint. It is a
>>> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
>>> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being
>>> glued
>>> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has
>>> worked out
>>> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I
>>> used this on
>>> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further.
>>> As far as
>>> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows
>>> in. I know
>>> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a
>>> incredible
>>> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue
>>> 1/2"
>>> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> Geoff Combs
>>> President
>>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>>> 614-834-5227p
>>> 614-834-5230f
>>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>>> Carpenter
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window
>>> last week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell,
>>> my shop was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up
>>> too quickly. The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had
>>> voids between the window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of
>>> the bonding area. I had also failed to remove the masking tape
>>> from the inside of the window soon enough and had a fair amount
>>> of masking tape trapped by the Weld-on bead.
>>>
>>> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting
>>> epoxy into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success),
>>> but after discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech
>>> support by the makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the
>>> window and start over. There are some things I learned from
>>> these discussions that are worth sharing.
>>>
>>> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach
>>> would work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from
>>> Airplane Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with
>>> me on the phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea
>>> might work and suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the
>>> task. As we discussed the situation further, I was able to
>>> communicate that what we were really trying to do in this case
>>> was bond the window to the dried Weld-on 10... not the window to
>>> the fiberglass. He thought that could still work... as long as I
>>> could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>>>
>>> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives
>>> to Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had
>>> been a long time since he had actually installed a window... then
>>> recollected that the windows would pop out during the structural
>>> roll over test on the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to
>>> bond them in. With Weld-on 10, the window would break before the
>>> bond would. As I understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an
>>> important component of the plane passing the test. This made my
>>> decision to start over again certain.
>>>
>>> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide
>>> double flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I
>>> had in my router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied
>>> up the $150 to Vans for another window.
>>>
>>> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on
>>> 10, hoping to find another product that would stay open longer.
>>> Here's what I learned:
>>>
>>> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for
>>> this application
>>> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the
>>> job done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
>>> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
>>> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
>>> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for
>>> $300- $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this
>>> purpose and called Weld-on 811.
>>>
>>> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner
>>> might have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher
>>> and John Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in
>>> early January of this year.
>>>
>>> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have
>>> stopped burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop
>>> at or below 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set
>>> of hands to spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to
>>> pull up the masking tape once the window is down securely. The
>>> gun seems a bit pricey and I imagine I can find a way to spread
>>> the Weld-on 10 quickly and accurately without too much effort or
>>> expense.
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>> one step forward... two steps back
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7176&Itemid=47
Cut and paste in your browser.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> |
Well evaluated and thought out. This will surely lead to a much better=2C e
ngineered result the second time.
I guess this is exactly what the building process is all about=2C albiet ve
ry frustrating. If only everyone's mind would work this way=2C the cars and
other products in this world would be all the much better.
Good science
Keep pluggin away.
> From: jeff(at)westcottpress.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Sep 2009 23:34:45 -0700
>
>
> As you may know=2C I attempted to install my left side door window last
> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell=2C my shop
> was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
> The bond to the fiberglass was perfect=2C but I had voids between the
> window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
> had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
> window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
> the Weld-on bead.
>
> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
> into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success)=2C but after
> discussions with Vans=2C the window manufacturer and tech support by the
> makers of Weld-on 10=2C I decided to route out the window and start
> over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
> worth sharing.
>
> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
> work and referred me to the window manufacturer=2C Jeff from Airplane
> Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
> phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
> suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
> discussed the situation further=2C I was able to communicate that what
> we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
> dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
> could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>
> So=2C I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
> long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
> that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
> the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
> Weld-on 10=2C the window would break before the bond would. As I
> understood the conversation=2C Weld-on 10 was an important component of
> the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
> certain.
>
> With that=2C Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
> router and it worked well)=2C I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
> Vans for another window.
>
> I also made a call to tech support at IPS=2C the makers of Weld-on 10=2C
> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
> what I learned:
>
> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
> application
> At 70 degrees=2C there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
> done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
> called Weld-on 811.
>
> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
> of this year.
>
> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
> 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
> spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
> tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
> I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
> accurately without too much effort or expense.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> one step forward... two steps back
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> |
I think this system would be pretty nice. 9995.00 for the 12nm ring model
that would work for RV-10 speeds. I hate the price but the avidyne is
around 8,000 to 9,000 anyway isn't it? This one correlates both ADS-b and
radar.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261277#261277
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
I have been looking at the GTS-800 for my G900X. I currently have TIS
Traffic which is fantastic where TIS is available. Unfortunately half of
my regular commute the TIS drops off "Traffic No Longer Available" and
then you are on your own. Or as I call it "old school."
When TIS is working it is a real comfort in the congested Los Angeles
basin where there can often be a dozen aircraft within a few miles of
you all going different directions at various altitudes and speeds. Most
of which you can't see. Helicopters seem to be the worst as they are low
and stationary. I am based where many of the heavy lift fire fighting
helicopters stage for fire & rescue (currently working the Station
Fire). Plus most all the local network news choppers so there is a lot
of roto activity. The other night I was departing WHP after 8:00 pm,
the tower was closed so I was in communication via CTAF with a NEWS
chopper flying low. I could not see them visually but had them on the
"fish finder." Because we were in communication and he had sight of me I
was able to fly right over the top of him (+1,000') and I confirmed he
was at 2,000 MSL. He responded with a surprised affirmative. I knew this
because I was climbing through 3,000 and my PFD showed "-1.0, -1.1,
-1.2..." and his direction vector.
When I visited Deems in mid-summer. Yes visiting Deems in AZ in
mid-summer. Duhhhhh. We were 8 miles out lining up for DVT with probably
7 other aircraft in the area. None were easily visible out the window
however I did see them on the display. It looked like herding cats as
they were all going different directions at different altitudes & speeds
but I could see as they all made their random turns for extended Left
Base entry to DVT. It was cool to see these random indications all line
up in front of me. With the visual verification I was able to easily
slide in with adequate spacing and set up for arrival. Nothing beats two
eyes out the window but Traffic is a wonderful additional tool to have
at your disposal.
Robin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Strasnuts
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: RV10-List: New garmin traffic system was announced
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71
76&Itemid=47
Cut and paste in your browser.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261263#261263
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/03/09 05:50:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
| From: | "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> |
A little trick passed on to me from Dave Head, who may have heard it from someone
else, is to put the container of mixed weld-on in a tray of ice water. This
will extend the working time a bit. (The stuff in the container cures faster
than the stuff which has been spread on the windows, due to the build up of heat).
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261314#261314
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> |
Is there any reason not to just use Scotch Weld 2216 instead of Weld-on 10?
I used this for the control surface tailing edges and like the product.
Carl Froehlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
the Weld-on bead.
My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
worth sharing.
Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
certain.
With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
Vans for another window.
I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
what I learned:
Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
application
At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
$400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
called Weld-on 811.
I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
of this year.
I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
accurately without too much effort or expense.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
one step forward... two steps back
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Free Wing Cradles |
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
Anyone want 'em? They're in eastern Massachusetts, however . . .
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Stella" <Sstella(at)incisaledge.com> |
| Subject: | Free Wing Cradles |
Where in eastern Mass?
Steven Stella
#40654 Wings
N521RV reserved
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Free Wing Cradles
Anyone want 'em? They're in eastern Massachusetts, however . . .
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Stella" <Sstella(at)incisaledge.com> |
| Subject: | Free Wing Cradles |
I'll take them. I'm in central Mass around Sturbridge. Give me a call on my
cell 508-989-1974
Steve Stella
#40654 Wings
N521RV reserved
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:08 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Free Wing Cradles
Anyone want 'em? They're in eastern Massachusetts, however . . .
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "william(at)gbta.net" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Free Wing Cradles |
I'd love them but I'm in Kansas!
Bill Britton
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
Anyone want =98em?=C2- They=99re in eastern
Massachusetts, however . . .
=C2-
TDT
=C2-
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass |
| From: | "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero> |
What's the best stuff to use to remove masking tape residue from
plexiglass, as in windows?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass |
Mineral Spirits or Naptha
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:26 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass
What's the best stuff to use to remove masking tape residue from plexiglass,
as in windows?
TDT
Tim Dawson-Townsend
40025
tdt(at)aurora.aero
617-500-4812 (office)
617-905-4800 (mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass |
| From: | Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com> |
Van's told me to use isopropyl alcohol
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:50 AM, gary wrote:
> Mineral Spirits or Naptha
>
>
> Gary Specketer
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> Dawson-Townsend,Timothy
> *Sent:* Friday, September 04, 2009 1:26 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass
>
>
> What=92s the best stuff to use to remove masking tape residue from
> plexiglass, as in windows?
>
>
> TDT
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> 40025
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 Wings
Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
http://kochman.net/N819K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing masking tape residue from plexiglass |
Kerosene. lay a towel over the spot and keep damp. It'll peel off well
if you're patient and keep it 'damp' long enough.
Linn
Dawson-Townsend,Timothy wrote:
> Whats the best stuff to use to remove masking tape residue from
> plexiglass, as in windows?
>
>
>
> TDT
>
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend
>
> 40025
>
> tdt(at)aurora.aero
>
> 617-500-4812 (office)
>
> 617-905-4800 (mobile)
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Get the instrument rating |
RV10 pilots should have instrument ratings and know/use their autopilots for
the sake of their passengers. I flew out of Tulsa Riverside for at least
eight years; This guy had a private ticket only for at least 22 years (FAA
records). From the article he departed RVS and flew for 30 minutes but
crashed within 10 miles of the airport. When I first heard the report I
thought he hit the 1600 AGL antenna about 5 miles north of where he crashed.
also remember that a VFR RV10 pilot and another IFR pilot do not make an
RV10 instrument pilot especially if the RV10 is glass equipped.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OKLA_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=FLTAM
<http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OKLA_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=FLTAM&SECTI
ON=US> &SECTION=US
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net> |
I can speak to the Navworx install as I'm going through it now. Bill Moffitt,
their rep/owner? is tough to reach so send him an email (address at their site).
Basically, two antennas (gps and uat-on the 10 I'm putting mine top and bottom
on forward end of tailcone-rg400 antenna cable w/bnc connectors), encoder wire
from EFIS or transponder, couple of wires to display (efis or x96).
He'll send you the full install instructions if you ask. I'll be glad to send
them if Bill M. says it's ok.
Incredibly easy install although definitely not flying yet.
The money spent on this was saved by getting the gtx327 instead of the gtx330.
Of course, in Florida we have extensive ads-b coverage.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261711#261711
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
I just helped someone install a Navworx box too. As you said, fairly
easy install. We put it in the exact same place, it sounds like. It
was a little unclear, I thought, for hooking up to an AFS screen, but
Bill helped us out. In my experience Bill was easy to get ahold of.
Every time I called he answered the phone. It does seem a little
archaic to have to use a terminal emulator to setup their box, but I
guess there's no other way without a screen or a special program (like
Dynon uses). We have had some functionality issues, but are still
troubleshooting. Overall it seems like a great option instead of mode-
S for those who live around good ADS-B coverage, like in FL or up and
down the east coast. Be aware, however, that AFS doesn't currently
show weather and it's likely they won't for some time with all their
efforts thrown towards their 4500 line.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 6, 2009, at 8:00 AM, "tomhanaway" wrote:
>
> I can speak to the Navworx install as I'm going through it now.
> Bill Moffitt, their rep/owner? is tough to reach so send him an
> email (address at their site).
>
> Basically, two antennas (gps and uat-on the 10 I'm putting mine top
> and bottom on forward end of tailcone-rg400 antenna cable w/bnc
> connectors), encoder wire from EFIS or transponder, couple of wires
> to display (efis or x96).
>
> He'll send you the full install instructions if you ask. I'll be
> glad to send them if Bill M. says it's ok.
>
> Incredibly easy install although definitely not flying yet.
>
> The money spent on this was saved by getting the gtx327 instead of
> the gtx330. Of course, in Florida we have extensive ads-b coverage.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261711#261711
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "tomhanaway" <tomhanaway(at)comcast.net> |
Jesse's correct about no weather display from ads-b on AFS screen. I'm doing AFS
units and plan to run the weather from xm. Either to 696 or efis depending
on which looks better/is available.
Tom H
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261732#261732
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry Marz <blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pro-Seal Removal |
I had to remove the Pro-Seal from a C-421 windshield frame and
retainers; a Harbor Freight Pneumatic Scraper with a polycarbonate
blade we made worked great. The Pro-Seal was built up 1/4" in places
and it pealed it off without hurting the aluminum. Blue Skys
Barry Marz
18735 Baseleg AVE.
FT. Myers, Fl 33917
239-567-2271
blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Removal |
| From: | Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> |
Avery has this tool:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-1055-80-sr-sealant-cutters.aspx
I've used sharpened plexiglass strips. There are phenolic and hard plastic
scrapers for the job. There is a stripper called Polygone AG that slowly
disolves proseal. Just finishing up a full strip and reseal of a Mooney wet
wing tank. Used the Polygone to remove more difficult areas like rivet heads
and in seams between spar and ribs/skins. However you do it, avoid metal
scrapers, metal wire wheels, etc that will remove alclad layer.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Barry Marz wrote:
>
> I had to remove the Pro-Seal from a C-421 windshield frame and retainers; a
> Harbor Freight Pneumatic Scraper with a polycarbonate blade we made worked
> great. The Pro-Seal was built up 1/4" in places and it pealed it off without
> hurting the aluminum. Blue Skys
>
> Barry Marz
> 18735 Baseleg AVE.
> FT. Myers, Fl 33917
> 239-567-2271
> blalmarz(at)embarqmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Moving to the airport |
| From: | "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> |
I finally got the plane moved to the airport. All went well and had plenty of great
help. Thanks to all who helped. Bob Leffler, Brad Leffler, Jim Baldwin, Jack
Ferernce, Al Moyer, Pat Ferguson, Matt Finley and Cals towing. When I called
to get prices on roll backs Cals Towing thought I was joking when I said I
need to have an airplane towed.
The end is getting near
Below is a link to more photos
Geoff
http://www.phanfare.com/album/#vw=album&ac=default&aid=3161550&sid=-1
--------
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Finishing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261813#261813
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2362_web_165.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
I spoke to the NavWorx guys at Sun 'n fun, and got the impression that two antennas
are required. I have gotten conflicting answers on where they need to be.
I've heard one on top & one on bottom, and I've heard two on bottom. The shark
fin is supposedly specified only because it can work in the upper "DME" range,
but so can a lot of dipole "sticks."
I'd really like to see a flat-out answer.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261957
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
| From: | "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> |
Carl,
I'm not versed on the Scotch product, but I can guarantee you that I will never
use Weld On again. Nastiest product I have used in a long time.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine & Panel
delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261958#261958
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
The two antennas required I believe are the GPS and the fin DME/transponder
antenna My understanding was that the extra DME antenna was for top/bottom
coverage. As a former MRX user and Zaon XRX tester; I found that sometimes
the transponder antennas on the bottom of an aircraft prevented the system
from "seeing" the traffic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: New garmin traffic system was announced
-->
I spoke to the NavWorx guys at Sun 'n fun, and got the impression that two
antennas are required. I have gotten conflicting answers on where they need
to be. I've heard one on top & one on bottom, and I've heard two on bottom.
The shark fin is supposedly specified only because it can work in the upper
"DME" range, but so can a lot of dipole "sticks."
I'd really like to see a flat-out answer.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine &
Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261957
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
John, it depends a little on what you do with your system, what
antennas are required and where you mount them.
First, you do definitely need a shark fin type Transponder/DME
blade on the belly. This is for receiving the ADS-B Ground
station signal, and later if you add the transmitter board
it will be for transmitting your information to the stations.
I wouldn't choose any other antenna then a shark fin blade
because of the frequency requirements.
Next, many people will want to mount a GPS antenna somewhere
on the top. On mine, since this one isn't critical for
navigation, I actually mounted mine under the very front of
my Vertical/Horizontal Stabilizer fiberglass fairing. If it
were a navigational antenna that wouldn't have cut the mustard
for me, but for this use I'm fine with it. Mounted there,
it makes the ideal location for mounting the avionics box
to be in the tail somewhere.
There also is the possibility of feeding in a GPS signal from
a properly configured and equipped panel mount GPS. The
specs on what is required for a GPS signal are fairly
high, and most common handhelds and other GPS's won't meet
the needs. I think the GNS480 does with the current new
software, and I'd hope that a 430W meets it too. But, to
make it easier and not have to worry about integrating a
GPS and hoping it is wired right and works, I just did the
built-in GPS.
So those are the 2 antennas required. It's not like
active traffic where you will want 1/2/4 antennas mounted
in various places for getting good signals from the other
aircraft...so it's a little simpler to install.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
johngoodman wrote:
>
>
> I spoke to the NavWorx guys at Sun 'n fun, and got the impression
> that two antennas are required. I have gotten conflicting answers on
> where they need to be. I've heard one on top & one on bottom, and
> I've heard two on bottom. The shark fin is supposedly specified only
> because it can work in the upper "DME" range, but so can a lot of
> dipole "sticks." I'd really like to see a flat-out answer. John
>
> -------- #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing.
> Engine & Panel delivery soon. N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261957
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Window Write-Up |
Any crazing? Is one cartridge enough for one window?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA
Muskego, WI
----- Original Message -----
nough bFrom: "Geoff" <g.combs@cartridge aerosportmodeling.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
> Sorry guys the material I used was 7545 a/c. The 7542 is the same
> material but a little thinner and greenish tan in color. The 7545 has a
> higher viscosity and does not run. They have different cure times as
> well.
> They have a 7545 a/e which is slower yet.
>
> Geoff
>
> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Geoff wrote:
>
>>
>> I used Lord 7542 urethane adhesive
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone Geoff
>>
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Geoff any brand/type of urethan you've used?
>>>
>>> br Werner
>>>
>>> Geoff Combs wrote:
>>>> >>> >
>>>>
>>>> Jeff I used a urethane adhesive to install my windows. It had a 20 min
>>>> working time and was easy to clean up and it did not run like weld- on.
>>>> I
>>>> also did a test against weld-on and this held better. I am not flying
>>>> the
>>>> airplane yet but it was a much easier task then the weld-on. The other
>>>> nice
>>>> thing about it was that you can clean the inside edges very good with
>>>> a PPG
>>>> reducer DT870. It is for urethane paints and will not hurt the window
>>>> in any
>>>> way but does clean the urethane very easily. This material is off
>>>> white and
>>>> can be tinted if needed. You would need to use a urethane base tint.
>>>> It is a
>>>> little more flexible than the Weld-on which
>>>> Should be an advantage for the different substrates that are being
>>>> glued
>>>> together. Time will tell how it will hold up but so far it has worked
>>>> out
>>>> great. My airplane is painted and a month or so from flying. I used
>>>> this on
>>>> all windows. Give me a call if you would like to discuss further. As
>>>> far as
>>>> I am concerned this is the best solutions for gluing the windows in. I
>>>> know
>>>> one thing is that they will not come out. This urethane has a
>>>> incredible
>>>> bond. We just used it on some samples for a project to butt glue 1/2"
>>>> acrylic to each other. We tried to break it and could not.
>>>>
>>>> Geoff
>>>>
>>>> Geoff Combs
>>>> President
>>>> Aerosport Modeling & Design
>>>> 8090 Howe Industrial Parkway Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
>>>> 614-834-5227p
>>>> 614-834-5230f
>>>> www.aerosportmodeling.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>>>> Carpenter
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Window Write-Up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> As you may know, I attempted to install my left side door window last
>>>> week with somewhat disastrous results. As best I can tell, my shop
>>>> was too hot (about 85 degrees) and the Weld-on 10 set up too quickly.
>>>> The bond to the fiberglass was perfect, but I had voids between the
>>>> window and the dried Weld-on 10 in over half of the bonding area. I
>>>> had also failed to remove the masking tape from the inside of the
>>>> window soon enough and had a fair amount of masking tape trapped by
>>>> the Weld-on bead.
>>>>
>>>> My initial thought was to try to save the window by injecting epoxy
>>>> into the gaps (as some have done with apparent success), but after
>>>> discussions with Vans, the window manufacturer and tech support by the
>>>> makers of Weld-on 10, I decided to route out the window and start
>>>> over. There are some things I learned from these discussions that are
>>>> worth sharing.
>>>>
>>>> Vans was not willing to say that the injected epoxy approach would
>>>> work and referred me to the window manufacturer, Jeff from Airplane
>>>> Plastics in Ohio. Jeff spent a good deal of time with me on the
>>>> phone. He initially thought the injected epoxy idea might work and
>>>> suggested I use Scotch Weld 2216 to accomplish the task. As we
>>>> discussed the situation further, I was able to communicate that what
>>>> we were really trying to do in this case was bond the window to the
>>>> dried Weld-on 10... not the window to the fiberglass. He thought that
>>>> could still work... as long as I could scuff up the Weld-on 10!
>>>>
>>>> So, I was back to square one. We started to discuss alternatives to
>>>> Weld-on 10 for window installation. He confessed that it had been a
>>>> long time since he had actually installed a window... then recollected
>>>> that the windows would pop out during the structural roll over test on
>>>> the RV-10 until Vans switched to Weld-on 10 to bond them in. With
>>>> Weld-on 10, the window would break before the bond would. As I
>>>> understood the conversation, Weld-on 10 was an important component of
>>>> the plane passing the test. This made my decision to start over again
>>>> certain.
>>>>
>>>> With that, Jeff suggested I route it out with an Onsrud carbide double
>>>> flute 1/2" x 1/2" bit (I wound up using a similar bit I had in my
>>>> router and it worked well), I said good bye and ponied up the $150 to
>>>> Vans for another window.
>>>>
>>>> I also made a call to tech support at IPS, the makers of Weld-on 10,
>>>> hoping to find another product that would stay open longer. Here's
>>>> what I learned:
>>>>
>>>> Weld-on 10 stays open the longest of any product they have for this
>>>> application
>>>> At 70 degrees, there should be 15-20 minutes of time to get the job
>>>> done (I had about 5 minutes at 85 degrees)
>>>> Be certain you are using product less than one year from the
>>>> manufacture date as the working time decreases with age
>>>> They do make a dispensing gun that mixes while dispensing for $300-
>>>> $400. Weld-on 10 is packed in to a cartridge for this purpose and
>>>> called Weld-on 811.
>>>>
>>>> I've also combed through the archives and had I done that sooner might
>>>> have avoided some of these problems. Both Lew Gallagher and John
>>>> Gonzalez had very useful posts (hindsight is 20/20) in early January
>>>> of this year.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to wait until the fires in our local mountains have stopped
>>>> burning and I'm able to keep the temperature in the shop at or below
>>>> 70 degrees before I try again. I'll get a second set of hands to
>>>> spread the Weld-on 10 more quickly and be sure to pull up the masking
>>>> tape once the window is down securely. The gun seems a bit pricey and
>>>> I imagine I can find a way to spread the Weld-on 10 quickly and
>>>> accurately without too much effort or expense.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>>> 40304
>>>> one step forward... two steps back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> |
The Navworx product is a UAT product and uses a frequency of 978 Mhz. This
is different than the frequency used by Mode C or S transponders (1090
Mhz). There should be not "seeing" issue between UAT and the transponder
antenna.
Top antenna is GPS antenna and bottom antenna is UAT antenna to communicate
with ground stations and other aircraft.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:13 PM, David McNeill wrote:
>
> The two antennas required I believe are the GPS and the fin DME/transponder
> antenna My understanding was that the extra DME antenna was for top/bottom
> coverage. As a former MRX user and Zaon XRX tester; I found that sometimes
> the transponder antennas on the bottom of an aircraft prevented the system
> from "seeing" the traffic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: New garmin traffic system was announced
>
> -->
>
> I spoke to the NavWorx guys at Sun 'n fun, and got the impression that two
> antennas are required. I have gotten conflicting answers on where they need
> to be. I've heard one on top & one on bottom, and I've heard two on bottom.
> The shark fin is supposedly specified only because it can work in the upper
> "DME" range, but so can a lot of dipole "sticks."
> I'd really like to see a flat-out answer.
> John
>
> --------
> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine &
> Panel delivery soon.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261957
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Garmin traffic system was announced |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Garmin recently updated their public site to include photos of the GTS
series modules and antenna including the underside of the dual blade
antenna.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=270&pID=14664
I have to say the images of the traffic on the site do not do the
traffic system justice as the extreme zoom feature of the MFD allows you
to really pick out individual targets of most concern.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: New garmin traffic system was announced
The Navworx product is a UAT product and uses a frequency of 978 Mhz.
This is different than the frequency used by Mode C or S transponders
(1090 Mhz). There should be not "seeing" issue between UAT and the
transponder antenna.
Top antenna is GPS antenna and bottom antenna is UAT antenna to
communicate with ground stations and other aircraft.
William
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:13 PM, David McNeill wrote:
The two antennas required I believe are the GPS and the fin
DME/transponder
antenna My understanding was that the extra DME antenna was for
top/bottom
coverage. As a former MRX user and Zaon XRX tester; I found that
sometimes
the transponder antennas on the bottom of an aircraft prevented the
system
from "seeing" the traffic
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of johngoodman
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: New garmin traffic system was announced
-->
I spoke to the NavWorx guys at Sun 'n fun, and got the impression that
two
antennas are required. I have gotten conflicting answers on where they
need
to be. I've heard one on top & one on bottom, and I've heard two on
bottom.
The shark fin is supposedly specified only because it can work in the
upper
"DME" range, but so can a lot of dipole "sticks."
I'd really like to see a flat-out answer.
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine &
Panel delivery soon.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261===
Browse, Chat, FAQ,
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
target="_blank">http://===
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261957#261957>
http://forums.mle, List Admin.
====
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/08/09 06:48:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Shelton" <SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com> |
[quote="dave.saylor.aircrafters(a"]David,
I think a strip of foam in the flap cove might reduce flap effectiveness by disrupting
the air through the gap when the flaps are down.
> [b]
Hey Dave,
That's something to consider but I don't think there would be much harm to the
air through the gap. The gap geometry is already simplified and I'd expect the
flow to be separated already in the vicinity of the foam strip.
It's too bad there isn't a way to seal those frise ailerons because they are a
much larger problem by comparison.
-David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262088#262088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Shelton" <SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com> |
Geoff,
I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked position, the locking
arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear rack. In theory... this would
provide a stop and prevent the lower gear rack from moving forwards.
In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip the lock and
open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his lock also... it was mostly
decorative.
This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the door and the
arm should swing through a slot to engage the door frame. This would subject the
lock to shear loading, rather than rotation. -David
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> |
David,
You're right, they are pretty well angled by the closeout. Not exactly a
smooth transition. But...what if it had a nice smooth transition? Maybe
the flaps would be more effective. We just finished cleaning up that area
on another type of plane, haven't flown it yet. I think there might be roo
m
for improvement on the -10 with a cleaned up fiberglass insert in the cove.
A foam strip in the aileron cove might be the ticket...I was just looking a
t
it, and it wouldn't be too hard to put some squishy foam under the trailing
edge so it just contacted the aileron. Or are you *supposed* to have
airflow through there?
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:01 AM, David Shelton wrote
:
>
> [quote="dave.saylor.aircrafters(a"]David,
> I think a strip of foam in the flap cove might reduce flap effectiveness
> by disrupting the air through the gap when the flaps are down.=EF=BD
> > [b]
>
>
> Hey Dave,
>
> That's something to consider but I don't think there would be much harm t
o
> the air through the gap. The gap geometry is already simplified and I'd
> expect the flow to be separated already in the vicinity of the foam strip
.
>
> It's too bad there isn't a way to seal those frise ailerons because they
> are a much larger problem by comparison.
>
> -David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262088#262088
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com> |
I agree too bad vans can't furnish a decent lock for such an expensive
kit. My lock does not work it probably got stripped too
Sent from my iPhone
Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
520 Lawrence St.
Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
Phone: 361-888-8808
Facsimile: 361-888-6753
robert(at)brunklaw.com
On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, "David Shelton"
wrote:
>
>
> Geoff,
>
> I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked
> position, the locking arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear
> rack. In theory... this would provide a stop and prevent the lower
> gear rack from moving forwards.
>
> In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip
> the lock and open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his
> lock also... it was mostly decorative.
>
> This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the
> door and the arm should swing through a slot to engage the door
> frame. This would subject the lock to shear loading, rather than
> rotation. -David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
All locks are installed to make the thief go to check the next item of
interest. I would rather the thief had an easy entry and did not damage the
airframe while trying to get the avionics, etc. If you are concerned about
the airframe I suggest lojack and possibly an audible alarm. Or perhaps
airframe damage is preferred so that the thief will be reluctant to fly away
the aircraft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Brunkenhoefer
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door locks
-->
I agree too bad vans can't furnish a decent lock for such an expensive kit.
My lock does not work it probably got stripped too
Sent from my iPhone
Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
520 Lawrence St.
Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
Phone: 361-888-8808
Facsimile: 361-888-6753
robert(at)brunklaw.com
On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, "David Shelton"
wrote:
>
>
> Geoff,
>
> I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked
> position, the locking arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear
> rack. In theory... this would provide a stop and prevent the lower
> gear rack from moving forwards.
>
> In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip
> the lock and open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his lock
> also... it was mostly decorative.
>
> This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the door
> and the arm should swing through a slot to engage the door frame. This
> would subject the lock to shear loading, rather than rotation. -David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net> |
All locks are designed to convince the thief to try another asset. If the
lock is too robust, the airframe may be damaged by a thief gaining entry. I
would prefer that the thief took whatever component or content and did not
damage the airframe. Most individual items are replaceable by insurance off
the shelf, redoing the doors or window would not be a fun task but would be
required if the airframe is damaged. On the other hand if your concern is
the airframe then perhaps airframe damage is preferable since the thief
would be unlikely to fly it away if damaged on entry. If the aircraft is of
concern, perhaps LoJack and an audible alarm would also work.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Brunkenhoefer
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door locks
-->
I agree too bad vans can't furnish a decent lock for such an expensive kit.
My lock does not work it probably got stripped too
Sent from my iPhone
Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
520 Lawrence St.
Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
Phone: 361-888-8808
Facsimile: 361-888-6753
robert(at)brunklaw.com
On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, "David Shelton"
wrote:
>
>
> Geoff,
>
> I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked
> position, the locking arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear
> rack. In theory... this would provide a stop and prevent the lower
> gear rack from moving forwards.
>
> In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip
> the lock and open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his lock
> also... it was mostly decorative.
>
> This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the door
> and the arm should swing through a slot to engage the door frame. This
> would subject the lock to shear loading, rather than rotation. -David
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com> |
The lock does not lock at all , so itdoes not even suit the purpose
for your senario
Sent from my iPhone
Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
520 Lawrence St.
Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
Phone: 361-888-8808
Facsimile: 361-888-6753
robert(at)brunklaw.com
On Sep 8, 2009, at 6:22 PM, "David McNeill" wrote:
>
> All locks are installed to make the thief go to check the next item of
> interest. I would rather the thief had an easy entry and did not
> damage the
> airframe while trying to get the avionics, etc. If you are concerned
> about
> the airframe I suggest lojack and possibly an audible alarm. Or
> perhaps
> airframe damage is preferred so that the thief will be reluctant to
> fly away
> the aircraft
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Brunkenhoefer
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:45 PM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door locks
>
> -->
>
> I agree too bad vans can't furnish a decent lock for such an
> expensive kit.
> My lock does not work it probably got stripped too
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
> Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
> 520 Lawrence St.
> Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
> Phone: 361-888-8808
> Facsimile: 361-888-6753
> robert(at)brunklaw.com
>
> On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, "David Shelton"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>> I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked
>> position, the locking arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear
>> rack. In theory... this would provide a stop and prevent the lower
>> gear rack from moving forwards.
>>
>> In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip
>> the lock and open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his
>> lock
>> also... it was mostly decorative.
>>
>> This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the
>> door
>> and the arm should swing through a slot to engage the door frame.
>> This
>> would subject the lock to shear loading, rather than rotation. -David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net> |
for $4.86 one can get a simple lock from Lowes or HD and build a relatively
solid locking system (William Curtis has a picture on his site). No
different than the baggage door. I built mine so the handle can not be moved
at all, there is a .063 plate between the door and the lock pop riveted on,
sure with some serious pulling the lock might eventually give but it would
take some work and a ruined door, most thieves give it a quick pull, see it
doesn't bulge and move on to the next possible victim.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Brunkenhoefer" <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door locks
>
>
> I agree too bad vans can't furnish a decent lock for such an expensive
> kit. My lock does not work it probably got stripped too
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
> Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
> 520 Lawrence St.
> Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
> Phone: 361-888-8808
> Facsimile: 361-888-6753
> robert(at)brunklaw.com
>
> On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:08 PM, "David Shelton" wrote:
>
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>> I just sold my RV-10 so I can't take a picture. In the locked position,
>> the locking arm swung downwards in front of the lower gear rack. In
>> theory... this would provide a stop and prevent the lower gear rack from
>> moving forwards.
>>
>> In practice, it only took a little force on the door handle to strip the
>> lock and open the door. My neighbor accidentally stripped his lock
>> also... it was mostly decorative.
>>
>> This type of lock should probably be mounted at the bottom of the door
>> and the arm should swing through a slot to engage the door frame. This
>> would subject the lock to shear loading, rather than rotation. -David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262089#262089
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Brunkenhoefer <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com> |
I criticized how blue mountain treated it's customers about the
product they sold me. Each time, a beta tester for blue mountain
would go on line and respond in a way to imply it would work fine if I
knew what I was doing . Not a good business model. We all know what
happened to them. If you supply a product it should work under normal
circumstances. There should be no need to rationalize that it's
failure is somehow a good design idea . Let's work on the premise the
a working lock is ok to expect . It needs no rationale.
Sent from my iPhone
Robert E. Brunkenhoefer
Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.
520 Lawrence St.
Corpus Christi, Texas 78401
Phone: 361-888-8808
Facsimile: 361-888-6753
robert(at)brunklaw.com
On Sep 8, 2009, at 6:22 PM, "David McNeill" wrote:
>
> All locks are installed to make the thief go to check the next item of
> interest. I would rather the thief had an easy entry and did not
> damage the
> airframe while trying to get the avionics, etc. If you are concerned
> about
> the airframe I suggest lojack and possibly an audible alarm. Or
> perhaps
> airframe damage is preferred so that the thief will be reluctant to
August 28, 2009 - September 08, 2009
RV10-Archive.digest.vol-ey